IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-01-12

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* Sicelo wonders what would happen if he completely disabled all trackerd options in tracker.cfg00:09
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platePhotos wont see new stuff you took, Media Player will report 0 music files, etc00:12
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plateyou can even apt-get remove trackerd00:12
plateas long as you can navitage to ~/DCIM on your own and use mplaye ror something its fine00:12
platei do notice it likes to chew 100% CPU scanning files i could care less about being indexed, so removed it long ago00:12
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SpeedEvilyou can configure it to be _much_ less aggressive, so it doesn't scan media you don't want it to00:19
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poroid3 tags are empty in 50% of files anyway. and wrong in about 25% of the rest00:21
Siceloyeah.. that's what i've just done. for example, i don't see why in the world it indexes MyDocs/.documents/00:21
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DocScrutinizer~jrtools01:33
infobotit has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools01:33
DocScrutinizersed -i -e "s/Throttle=0/Throttle=10/" /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg01:34
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DocScrutinizerSicelo: tracker is linux' spotlight01:36
DocScrutinizeralas there's not a single app I know of that'd actually *use* all that "index all my `PC` please" functions of tracker01:37
DocScrutinizerif there'd be such an app, you should be able to find all mp3, all videos, all pictures, pdf, plain files that have "foobar" *somewhere* in title, name, body, or - with right pluging - even in audio songtext (/me idly wonders if tracker project already has a speech2text indexer plugin)01:39
merlin1991as far as I see it tracker actually needs only 1 fix to work proper on maemo01:39
DocScrutinizerwebpages, I forgot01:40
merlin1991realize that vfat got unmounted and not all files are gone01:40
merlin1991in other words don't remove umounted media but flag as currently not avaiable01:40
merlin1991which would solve the silly I'm gonna rescan and reextract all your media NAO cuz you plugged out the usb cable01:41
* DocScrutinizer can't think of *any* fix that would make tracker "work proper"01:41
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: "stop trackerd" in ke-recv umount /media/card" script01:43
DocScrutinizersounds like a patch for CSSU01:43
merlin1991Imo tracker works perfect as long as its database grows when you contiounsly add media to it01:44
merlin1991as soon as it wipes its database due to a umount it's ofc a huge mess01:45
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer: I thought more along the lines of making tracker recognize fs01:45
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merlin1991ofc on maemo5 we can simply stop tracker and start again upon remount since we don't index anything else, but in gereral I think it makes more sense to have tracker assign media not only to a path but also to mountpoint and realize when a mount is missing01:46
DocScrutinizererrr01:47
DocScrutinizerhave fun!01:47
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merlin1991shut up ;)01:47
* DocScrutinizer mumbles "bindmount" and "empty mountpoint dirs", and "fake fstab"01:48
merlin1991hehe01:48
merlin1991but yeah since we're going to ship improved ke-recv anyway we could add the stop trackerd option01:48
DocScrutinizerx act ly01:48
* merlin1991 needs to investigate upon the proper way to pause tracker01:49
* merlin1991 darkly remembers something about tracker-processes having proper flags01:49
javispedrohm?01:49
javispedro<merlin1991> as soon as it wipes its database due to a umount it's ofc a huge mess01:49
javispedrotracker doesn't know what you did while the fs was unmounted01:50
merlin1991yes but it could realize "this mount point is gone, data could be temporarily unavaiable"01:50
merlin1991instead of just wiping everything from it's database that was there01:50
merlin1991and reindexding upon remount01:51
DocScrutinizerit will reindex anyway, upon mount01:51
DocScrutinizerit has to01:51
javispedrobecause it does not know what you did while it was unmounted01:51
DocScrutinizerit could skip known files though01:51
javispedroit would have to md5 them01:51
DocScrutinizerassuming they didn'T change meta content01:52
merlin1991javispedro: just let me ask you what does tracker do when you reboot?01:52
javispedroor do some other kind of check, so it would be as slow if not actually slower than just parsing metadata again01:52
merlin1991it remembers it has files and it remembers timestamps01:52
merlin1991you can force tracker to reindex files by simply touching them01:52
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: MEH01:52
merlin1991so it compares timestamps on files01:53
javispedromerlin1991, timestamps are not realiable when you put windows in the equation01:53
DocScrutinizertracker *should* already store full pathname, it also could store size, and inode nr, and ctime/mtime01:53
merlin1991it could do just that upon remount and only reindex what is nerwer01:53
merlin1991fsckd windows01:53
DocScrutinizera 2 stat() is always faster than a id3tag-grep01:54
merlin1991what doc said :)01:54
javispedroI am quite happy with tracker performance on the n900 btw, I have around ~20GiB of m4as and it tackes around 2:3001:54
javispedro(minutes, not hours :) )01:54
DocScrutinizeror the synonym on pdf files, for "all words >3 chars, that are not on blacklist"01:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer, I was thinking about md5, not stat(901:54
merlin1991javispedro: I've noticed tracker indexes music quite fast01:54
merlin1991it really sucks extracting video shots01:55
DocScrutinizerBWAHAHA01:55
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merlin1991whenever I remove my video collection from the n900 reindexing is ultrafast01:55
merlin1991but if I readd it tracker is busy for 10 mins min01:55
merlin1991and I'm not talking about 200 movies but like 10 episodes of some series01:56
DocScrutinizerWhen I copied ~25GB of mp3 to my eMMC, trackerd amused me with a ETA guestimate that incresed from "ca. 5 min" to "ca 30 min" over time01:56
DocScrutinizerin the end it was more than 3001:56
javispedrohm01:56
javispedroit doesn't reindex anything at all when using usb mass storage here01:57
merlin1991javispedro: it always does for me01:57
merlin1991also it depends on what tags you have01:57
DocScrutinizer*NOW* it also doesn't here ;-P01:57
javispedroDocScrutinizer, your evilness :)01:57
merlin1991for example album art in your mp3s can kill it if the size exceeds some smaller values01:57
DocScrutinizern8 folks01:58
javispedroembedded album art is the devil01:58
javispedrofrigging touchpad wants it01:58
merlin1991on the other hand how do you get tracker to add proper album art to songs?01:58
DocScrutinizertracker too01:58
merlin1991so far I only was successfull with embedded album art01:58
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javispedrofolder.jpg, album.jpg01:58
merlin1991tracker hapily ignored ANY kind of .jpg in the folder01:58
DocScrutinizerhaha01:59
merlin1991but instantly extracted embedded art to .mediaartlocal :P01:59
javispedroI thought my patches for this had gotten into the CSSU?01:59
* merlin1991 doesn't remember those patches01:59
merlin1991and we never patched tracker01:59
javispedrohttp://depot.javispedro.com/nit/tracker/01:59
DocScrutinizerduh01:59
javispedrothat is PR1.3 tracker packages, and the patches01:59
* DocScrutinizer grabs the whip02:00
DocScrutinizer;-D02:00
merlin1991it seems loads of patches have been missed over time02:00
DocScrutinizermooooooooohammmmmad02:00
merlin1991I've been collecting random patches from all over to throw at mag when he shows up again02:00
merlin1991javispedro: thanks will add them to my todo02:01
DocScrutinizerthumbs up02:01
DocScrutinizermerlin1991 for imperator02:01
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javispedrokonttori once being optimistic and saying that they planned to backport the harmattan tracker to fremantle just came to mind02:02
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* javispedro goes find the "Times have changed" song from Watchmen02:03
DocScrutinizerwe got a strange lil kingdom - javispedro is our merlin, merlin1991 is our knight, and the youngsters are the evil old emperors that block every progress02:03
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javispedroand our local Doctor :)02:04
javispedroactually the fault is mine, I said on february 2011 that I'd merge them into the cssu...02:06
merlin1991javispedro: would you prefer todo your own git commits to push to http://gitorious.org/community-ssu or should I just slap the patches into a commit each and push?02:06
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merlin1991also I'm not really sure what the realignore.patch does :P02:07
DocScrutinizerignore reality? ;-P02:08
merlin1991could be usefull, but I don't think that is what it is :P02:08
javispedrotracker didn't ignore folders from "removable media" even if you added it to the config file02:08
DocScrutinizerindeed02:09
javispedroI couldn't make it ignore my SDK dir when I mounted it from the SDK for ex.02:09
javispedro*from the SD02:09
DocScrutinizertracker is stinking can of worms02:09
javispedrofremantle one was rushed02:10
javispedrothe bugs fixed by the above patches are absolutely trivial and all of the issues were fixed in harmattan by the time I made them02:10
DocScrutinizerno, the concept got invented by a 10 year old on LSD & Jaegermeister02:11
javispedroin fact I'm quite sure konttori must still have the backported tracker version somewhere, but it never got released because of the usual burocracy things02:11
javispedro*bureaucracy02:11
javispedrolike the n800 bme :(02:11
merlin1991well02:11
merlin1991if he can set the code to the wild, cssu is always happy about poper codedumps ;)02:12
javispedrooh, you have quite a large codedump...02:12
DocScrutinizera nice thought to go to sleep - some apocalypse got forestalled by buerocracy02:12
javispedroit's called harmattan, or maemo602:13
DocScrutinizerg'nite02:13
javispedrognite dockane_02:13
javispedrooops02:13
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* javispedro 's xchat got deconfigured for some reason02:13
merlin1991well javispedro that codedump isn't exactly easy to use ;)02:13
javispedromerlin1991, yeah =)02:13
merlin1991on the other hand already backported code that just lies somewhere can always be easily included in cssu :D02:14
javispedrobut it's an example that certain "codedumps" might very well be useless for certain purposes like this one02:14
javispedro(that woody guy on TMO is going to kill me for this)02:14
merlin1991oh that woody guy who currently joined the flamewar vs mag?02:15
* DocScrutinizer trows a few nice forkbombs and GPIO-shortcircuit collisions' codedrops on merlin199102:15
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer: you said gn8, get autta here ;)02:15
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javispedrohe never sleeps02:15
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DocScrutinizerwistleblower!02:16
merlin1991gotta love it how the "why people don't use cssu" got far more posts in short time than the actual cssu topics :D02:17
DocScrutinizerohnoes, a tmo trollthread? XP02:17
merlin1991it's more of a general missinformation thread02:18
DocScrutinizeraka trolling02:18
merlin1991but I don't think adding my 2 cent there with proper info will have any chance vs all the other "cssu is THE EVIL" posts02:18
DocScrutinizernot *good* trolling02:18
DocScrutinizerjust post the URL on e.g 4chan, so the email  addr got properly harvested by spam spiders02:19
javispedro4chan quality trolling?02:19
merlin1991nah02:19
javispedrosaying that IS trolling02:19
merlin1991it's above 4chan quality trolling, they still use full sentences02:19
merlin1991javispedro: any other patch you might have written that never made it into cssu? :P02:20
javispedromy memory is limited02:20
javispedroI don't think so02:20
javispedroprobably some to SDL but I don't remember any from the top of my head02:20
merlin1991javispedro: just checked, connected n900 in mass storage, unplugged and tracker-indexer had its fun02:26
* merlin1991 wonders though why it was that fast02:27
merlin1991I do have 15 gb in .sounds02:27
merlin1991maybe because I have swap on the sdcard?02:28
merlin1991javispedro: what does tracker prioritice? folder.jpg or embedded art?02:29
javispedrodon't remember02:30
javispedroprobably embedded02:30
javispedroI do know that it priorizes .mediaartlocal and whatever is on XDG cache dir though02:30
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: maybe it already checks mtime of dirs02:32
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merlin1991epic fail thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=114926306:14
merlin1991a thread that links to a blog post which in turn links back to another thread on tmo06:14
merlin1991lulz?06:14
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Macerhello10:07
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infobotHi there, see:  http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1148886&postcount=668. Is the proposition of sponsoring server for few months still actual?10:43
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crashanddiemerry christmas, happy new year, and jolly easter11:37
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TimmyTi have installed vlc on debian chroot, because i needed better sound and graphic equalizer, but it seems vlc cant connect to the output device to play the sound. how can i solve this issue?11:48
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DocScrutinizer51crashanddie: HEYA!12:43
DocScrutinizer51WTF?! whom I need to set on infobot's ignorelist???12:45
* DocScrutinizer51 glares at estel12:45
DocScrutinizer51"hi there" what a nice greeting ?-/12:46
jaskahaha12:49
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer, what's up :)12:54
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Shapeshifterwhat's the best way of cloning an existing maemo installation to a new n900?13:31
Shapeshiftermy current one is dying13:32
Shapeshifterquite a few config tweaks and stuff. would be best if I could just flash it in one go, dd style13:33
dm8tbrI remember hearing about a backup tool that gets you almost everything13:36
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SiceloBackupMenu13:59
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Siceloas long as u take care to flash/install same kernel15:05
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npmis there an app where we can use our old broken-screen n950's as a remote door video intercom ( streaming video from camera over http to webserver running on desktop,and maybe using deskltop mic throuh html5 to send voice to n900 loudspeakers to "talk back" ??)17:39
npmoops i mean n900's17:39
npmthe n950 is sitting in front of me, screen unbroken (knock gorrilla glass)17:39
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SpeedEvilnpm: :/17:40
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SpeedEvildoes skype do video?17:40
npmhmm yeah, that would do it too.17:40
npmyes it does17:41
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SpeedEvilAlso - there are lots of leetle video screens you could plug into the composite port17:41
npmi guess i could setup a separate skype account on it... right now it's my downstairs skype/gmail ringer17:41
npmthe n90017:41
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npmSpeedEvil: yeah i plugged my tv in back when it was working reliablu17:42
npmy17:42
npmi'm phasing out tv17:42
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npmbut yeah i guess an existing voip solution would do it17:43
SpeedEvilI do not have a working TV at the moment17:43
npmi been playing w/ html5 being served off the handfset to a browser17:43
SpeedEvilIn principle I could find the digibox, or my dttv adaptor, manufacture an ariel...17:44
SpeedEvilAnd get the TV out of the attic17:44
npmnow that i can stream from gstreamer over the web, i was thinking to stream from the camera17:44
SpeedEvilbut get_iplayer works for me17:44
npmi have two analog and two digital video encoders as pci/pci-e on my desktop17:45
SpeedEvilhttp://dx.com/4-3-lcd-monitor-visual-reversing-vehicles-reverse-camera-ntsc-pal-dc12v-6748217:45
SpeedEvilI was meaning17:45
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RST38h"Metro will drive the new magic across all of our user experiences. Metro means that 1+1 really does equal 3."17:46
npmhmm that's an interesting side-use, as i wanted a small crt to hook it to as it is currently located in the kitchen w/ loudspeakers17:46
RST38h-- Steve Ballmer17:46
npmthat's the kind of math they use in their pointer arithmetic17:47
RST38h"Somebody call Eddie Murphy and Arsenio Hall. Nokia Lumia is Coming to America and it's fit for a prince."17:47
RST38h(whatever he meant by that)17:47
npmthe worst part about the lumia is the freakin browser that can't actually view half the websites and is totally html5 incapable17:47
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RST38hnpm: Oh, don't remind me17:48
npmwhen will firefox/fennec be available :-)17:48
RST38hnpm: Have been setting it up yesterday and still feel like an inanimate object has raped me17:48
RST38hWinCE version of IE...bleah17:48
npmi'm using it as my main phone to save my precious from wear and tear and crackage17:48
RST38hnpm: Just get a Symbian phone, they are more functional and pleasant to use17:49
npmi will at some point, for my qt ambassador project, except i have to take a bunch of screenshots/videos first and i'm in the middle of developing17:49
npm(for http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/ )17:50
RST38hNo USB storage. No video playback. No applications in the store. No decent web browser. No way to configure that prime color square hell of home screen.17:50
npmi figure if i wait a little bit longer the c7 will have belle on it17:50
RST38hNo decent games, for Tentacled's sake!17:50
RST38hnpm: Anna is fine17:50
npmactually the square colors can be configured17:51
RST38hnpm: Shit, old ^3 is fine in comparison17:51
npmi can't remember how because i don't care17:51
RST38hnpm: Yes. you get to select from 16 tear-my-eyes-out colors.17:51
RST38hnpm: But it is a progress: they are now offering the whole EGA palette rather than CGA!17:51
npmthere are some useful apps, and it rounds out the n950 functionality nicely17:52
RST38hHave I forgotten "no ebook reader"? =)17:52
npmwhich is why i wish there was a vmware solution (like on those new android announces) to swithc between mango and meego17:52
npmbest of both worlds17:52
RST38hnpm: What is missing from n950 that this abomination has?17:52
npmplus you could run mango on an 1g ram phone :-)17:53
npmnetflix?17:53
RST38hWhy do you need netflix, anyway?17:53
RST38hThere is torrent.17:53
npmvarious drm'd media distrubutions17:53
RST38hAgain, torrent.17:53
npmwell that's what the n950 can do17:53
npmbut i didn't have my heart sink when i dropped the lumia this morning... i was like... "that's what you're here for"17:54
RST38hit is still a very nicely built device17:54
npmand works very well as my daily phone on a phone-only sim17:55
RST38hbut it basically has no platform. you can't call this bluish square menu a platform.17:55
RST38hcan't even develop for it in any language used by normal people!17:55
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npmgotta run...17:57
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Estel_NIN101,  You've deleted Your page about cryptsetup and truecrypt tricks, so I'm unable to check it - which module isn't included in kp, Serpent?19:49
Estel_AFAIK AES is compiled in kernel natively, Twofish via module, and Serpent isn't XTS at all?19:50
NIN101XTS is just a block cipher mode, AES is compiled into the kernel =y, Twofish as a module =M, and Serpent isn't in power kernel.19:50
Estel_thanks. Hm, I've found Your post in kp thread19:51
Estel_that for kp47 You've compiled module for Serpent19:51
Estel_wasn't it included?19:52
NIN101as I said, Serpent isn't in powerkernel, and never was.19:52
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Estel_ok, I got it, but why?19:52
Estel_if You've prepared it?19:52
NIN101prepared?19:53
Estel_any ratoonale given vs including, or just Your post got bloated by other posts?19:53
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NIN101compiled, nothing prepared, ask Pali to include it.19:53
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Estel_NIN101 - I've compiled modules for the serpent cipher and the block cipher mode XTS19:53
Estel_ok19:53
Estel_thanks19:53
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NIN101xts was more important for truecrypt than serpent.19:54
Estel_yea I know what xts is19:54
NIN101also it is known to be slower than AES....19:54
Estel_true19:54
Estel_the funny thing is that while benchmarking speed in truecrypt19:54
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NIN101I know... :-)19:54
Estel_using it's option to benchmark19:54
Estel_Serpent got higher. Bug?19:54
Estel_affected by XTS working for aes or twofish?19:55
Estel_or it's really faster on our device? :P19:55
Estel_BTW, You may be sure that Your swap encrypted all the time isn't affecting speed in any way, most of situations19:56
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DocScrutinizer51Lava_Croft: bonus points for gibberish private wuery to ask for -q19:56
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Estel_200 mhz processor have higher flowthrough with AES than our flash storage can handle19:56
Estel_so, overclocked or not, encryption on the fly doesn't affect our read/write speed at all19:56
Estel_*unless* device is on 100% CPU usage19:57
DocScrutinizer51~seen Lava_Croft19:57
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Estel_cause encrypting uses CPU, obviously, so fully occupied starts to encrypt/decrypt slower19:57
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infobotlava_croft is currently on #maemo (2h 14m 40s), last said: 'flasher works fine on windows'.19:57
freemangordonEstel_, doesn't omap have cryptographic HW?19:58
NIN101omap_aes would be interesting indeed19:58
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Estel_freemangordon,  no idea, You tell me? If yes, any access to it?19:58
freemangordonDoes it have kernel-support?19:58
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freemangordonHmm, will google these days19:59
Estel_yea, trying already19:59
Estel_the problem is that even it if have it, I have no idea how we can use it19:59
Estel_probably through some kernel module?19:59
Estel_here my guessworking potential ends :P19:59
freemangordon:D, ok, will check what is there and what not20:00
NIN101http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/n900_aes_and_sha1-md5_hw_acceleration_drivers/20:00
Estel_thanks freemangordon ;)20:00
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer51: i just go to the source20:00
Lava_Croft:)20:00
Lava_Croftthanks20:00
freemangordonNIN101, someone tried those?20:01
NIN101yes, read the thread ;)20:03
Estel_would be nice to include it in KP20:04
freemangordon:D yeah, end the conclusion is that those slower that SW20:04
Estel_lol20:04
freemangordon*those are20:04
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Estel_lovely20:04
NIN101anyway, I don't care too much about it, it's fast anyway.20:04
Estel_we always need to care, if it can be faster ;)20:04
Estel_but, it seems it won't be in this case20:04
freemangordonWell, it is not only about speed, I need to read a bit about what exactly security is there in omap, because if we can securely store keys, it is another kind of beer20:06
Estel_true20:06
Estel_also, maybe there is a bug in backporting?20:06
Estel_there was no conclusion on *why* it's slower20:06
freemangordoncould be20:06
Estel_see NIN101, how much benefits come from simply scp'ing something into -devel. A chain of events ;P20:07
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Estel_BTW, freemangordon, have Your read yesterday's log of CSSU thread?20:07
Estel_it seem that merlin19* is happy about cooperatiown with X-Fade, sic20:08
Estel_not that his request was solved20:08
Estel_he just doesn't seem to be blacklisted by X-Fade as rest of #maemo and X-fade actually responds to him20:08
Estel_wedll, some people doesn't need much to be happy...20:09
Estel_anyway, merlin19* doesn't understand why we wqant to move repos out from Nokia's protecting wings, which left me quite... confused? ;)20:09
Estel_anyway, process it still ongoing20:09
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freemangordonEstel_, TBH I would prefer to stay with Nokia if possible, moving away will fragment the community even more20:11
freemangordonWill read logs later20:11
freemangordonso merlin1991 will become CSSU-T maintainer too?20:11
merlin1991Estel_: the thing is nokia is providing the infrastructure and some manpower + the official "maemo" sign on top20:13
platewell wheres MAemo6/harmattan for my n900 then20:13
platesounds like they aint doing much :P20:13
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Lava_Croftif it aint really broken, do not try to fix it until its time20:13
Lava_Croftand its not the end of 2012, yet20:13
merlin1991obviously things could be better, but that can be worked one without jumping to a completely new system20:14
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merlin1991Lava_Croft: it's also been stated that the cobs / apps.formeego.com stuff might move into maemo.org20:14
merlin1991which in turn would most probably end up in nokia funding beyond end of 201220:14
Lava_Croftmerlin1991: yeah, but i talk from current reality, not possibility:)20:16
freemangordon(nod)20:16
Lava_Croftafaik they only stated for real funding stops at the end of 201220:16
Lava_Croftof course more things are happening in the background20:16
merlin1991Lava_Croft: even that isn't the full reality20:16
merlin1991what was stated is that funding till end of 2012 is there20:16
merlin1991futher stuff has to be decided20:17
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* DocScrutinizer51 still is amazed about thebig word "funding", given you can get decent root servers for less than 100 bucks per month20:18
freemangordonLava_Croft, I is better to have "maemo" on top of what we are doing. And really, if apps.meego.com (or whatever the name is) becomes a part of maemo.org, that means funding will be prolonged fot at least 3 more years20:19
platea single draemhost VPS should handle all the maemo users still left anyways20:19
DocScrutinizer51incl gigabit backbone with unlimited traffic20:19
freemangordonyeah20:19
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TofeHello !20:19
Estel_I would "trade" maemo name for properly contactable repos maintaioner every day20:20
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Estel_being tied with ZNokia ikn *any* way always =20:20
freemangordonThat could be solved without going out of maemo.org20:20
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Estel_1) Council without any tools to do anything alone, yet being community representative20:20
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freemangordonLets wait for council meeting, hopefuly some decisions will be made (looking at agenda)20:21
Estel_2)  Nokia replying to everything that their lack manpower due to laid offs20:21
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Estel_3) waiting for every crucial response for at least month, from Nokia20:21
Estel_4) Nokia paying for service guys for maemo.org + Nokia not controlling it = service guys got us in ass20:22
TofeDoes someone has ever had problems with the MfE parameters being not saved ? Especially, the parameter which says "I want to sync my calendar"... The checkbox always goes back to uncheck after having synchronized the calendar...20:22
Estel_I'll stop here, as counting like that is sadening20:22
freemangordonTofe, never (not using it)20:22
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freemangordonEstel_, still there is a chance, lets decide after council meeting20:23
Estel_of course, I'm not calling for arms and cutlasses ;)20:23
freemangordonAnd our current problem is only partially with Nokia20:24
Estel_if Nokia can change way they're supervising support for maemo infrastructure, who knows20:24
Lava_CroftTofe: it works fine here, but im not using the feature you describe:<20:24
Estel_yet, as DocScrutinizer correctly stated, hosting for such small community is cheap20:24
freemangordonyeah20:24
TofeI guess MfE settings are stored in the .qmf/qmailstore.db, I could try to look into that...20:24
freemangordonbbl20:24
Estel_we lose much because deciding people aren't part of community and aren't interested either20:24
Estel_we gain... 100 bucks for hosting?20:25
* merlin1991 wouldn't be able to set up a maemo extras like system with a -devel and stable repo and all the voting and other stuff20:26
Estel_merlin1991,  see "Ask the Council" thread20:26
Estel_many propositions there20:26
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Estel_btw, thats why it'*s said to mirror infrastructure first20:26
platemy maemo is so frankenstein about 80% of it is from sid. eventualy i''l eliminate the other 20%20:26
Estel_bleeding edge people would use new one20:26
Macerhm20:26
Maceri'm trying out tmux20:27
Estel_and possibly fall back to old if encounter problems, until hammered20:27
merlin1991realisticly someone will show up todo all this, realize 3 months laters that it is work after all and we're back to square 120:27
Estel_IMO it's worth the work20:27
Estel_well, we can always just sit apatheticaly and die20:28
Estel_due to developers frustration (see problems with kp and repos, + CSSU testing now)20:28
Estel_due to Nokia taking plug without preparations from our side20:28
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Estel_etc.20:28
Estel_Have You seen any project that doesn't require work?20:29
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Estel_it would be sin in any religion and philosophy to waste our community potential.20:29
Lava_Croftplate: someone should write some script to sid-ify the n90020:29
Macertmux is interesting20:29
merlin1991Estel_: *if* nokia pulls the plug we can depend on a notice about 3 months earlier20:29
Estel_yea, so why we can't prepare earlier?20:29
Estel_in case of relatkions with Nokia going bad, we can switch not waiting for their plug20:30
Estel_also, 3 months isn't so long20:30
Estel_for hardening bugs of infrastructure swap20:30
Estel_also, community is more motivated if *we* take initiative and do something, not because someone pulled the plug above our heads20:30
Estel_LibreOffice was created because Oracle was bitchy, not because they pulled plug. Yea, it's different scale of userbase etc, but main things are similar20:31
Estel_except for fact that Oracle was plain hostile, and Nokia is plain unexisting, at least in our universe20:31
Estel_"ecosystem" ;P20:32
merlin1991as you stated earlier I'm quite happy with the infrastructure, if the situation with the maemo.org maintainer gets better then I see no point at all to move20:32
Estel_"ecosystem" ;P20:32
Estel_ask Pali if he's also happy20:32
Estel_probably like hell.20:32
Estel_IMO ideas about jumping to Debian infrastructure (they would not notice our resource usage, to be honest - a scale)20:33
Estel_aren't stupid20:33
Estel_well, there is no other working alternative to non-FOSS android20:33
Estel_Mer is still infant. Older, but infant20:34
Estel_webOS - hahaha!20:34
Estel_it's just that sticking with semi-working, yet comfortable - due to others (Nokia) doing paper work - things is quite a potential waste20:34
Estel_anyway, I'm really of now20:35
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ruskiehttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Tizen-alpha-released/20:55
Estel_someone remember how much time we have to council meeting?20:55
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Estel_can't check myself now - browser port blocked and I don't have time to tunnel it :P20:56
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RST38h...Dear Tentacled One, may Your sleep be eternal and Your wrath terminal! Please, hunt down all GNOME3 developers and devour them in the most painful way possible! While you are at it, swallow Lennart, just as an appetizer. Thanks.21:46
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mgedminI sense some bitterness in you ;)21:47
RST38hmgedmin: I have been forced to upgrade from Lucid to Precise Pangolin21:47
mgedminwho forced you?21:48
javispedrobefore the tentacled one eats them, let me whip them for a while21:48
RST38hmgedmin: So, instead of Gnome2, I now have a choice between Unity and GNOME3.21:48
RST38hmgedmin: QEmu did21:48
mgedminthat must be fun21:48
mgedminI tried both on oneiric21:48
mgedminQtSDK forced me to use Unity ;)21:48
mgedmin(when the buggy Qt theme or whatever eats all the memory with huge pixmaps, Mutter crashes.  Compiz copes.)21:49
RST38hmgedmin: About as much fun as choosing between dog shit and cat shit for your breakfast21:49
javispedrothis new year gentoo scared the hell out of me by putting a news item saying that gnome3 was unmasked21:49
mgedmin"would you rather type with your left hand chopped off or your right hand chopped off?"21:49
javispedrofortunately, it is still not in stable so I'm happy =)21:49
RST38hTo polish things up, i got acquainted with Lumia 800.21:50
mgedminunity is bearable, just... buggy...21:50
RST38hmgedmin: both are incredible shit. I have got Xfce now, but it is not fully integrated with Ubuntu21:50
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javispedroin the meanwhile, MS already collecting royalties for 70% of android shipments in the US22:06
javispedrowhen will they just drop WP7 (and Nokia) and instead call themselves "The Android Company"22:06
freddddWhat gives them the right to collect royalties regarding 70% of Android base mobile devices within the US?22:07
freddddAnd who made that claim?22:07
freddddAnd what makes that other 30% special enough to not fall under the same jurisdiction?22:08
javispedrothe source is MS itself: http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2012/jan12/01-12LGPR.mspx22:08
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javispedrobasically, since all of the current andridiot manufacturers did deals with the devil in the past (all of them made winmob devices at some stage), the devil is now coming back and grabbing them all by the balls22:10
freddddIn short, how does this Microsoft LG deal influence Google's Android operating system regarding royalties?22:10
freddddAs far as I am concerned, LG has shit to say over something Google has created.22:11
javispedro.oO( ? )22:11
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javispedroread the press release. it's plain extortion -- but they're trying to do it to everyone22:13
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freddddI can not really tell anything from this agreement, for all I care this was done voluntarily to maximise profits, if this news is not presented from a neutral source, and not the source being party held within the news article, there is little I can judge over.22:14
freddddReceiving coverage over a patent portfolio.22:15
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freddddMeaning, you can use the patents the company holds, which has its portfolio covering you, to sue other companies in violation of it?22:15
freddddOr what does this mean?22:15
mgedminit means the patent system is broken22:15
mgedminand lets large companies extort other large companies over trivial patents22:16
freddddI need not an explanation on the patent system.22:16
freddddI need an explanation on this.22:16
freddddTo me this just means that Samsung, LG, etc... have made deals with Microsoft, so that they can sue other companies that are in violation of Microsoft's patents, within their own products.22:16
javispedronoi22:17
freddddThen what does it mean?22:17
javispedro"coverage under Microsoft's patent portfolio for tablets, mobile phones and other consumer devices running the Android or Chrome OS platform"22:18
freddddHaving made a deal with a company so that your product is covered by their patent portfolio.22:18
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javispedromeaning, licenses for all the patents MS believes are in any way related to any of those22:18
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freddddThat last line of yours is confusing.22:19
freddddStill do not get.22:19
javispedrogreat because I do not get what's the problem :)22:19
freddddI still think it just means you are allowed to use Microsoft patents upon your own devices and sue those who violate within your own products.22:19
freddddWell, knowing that.22:20
freddddHow can you tell Microsoft is receiving royalty rights? The news article does not specify anything besides a cryptic "mutually beneficial agreement".22:20
freddddFrom that, how were you able to tell Microsoft was receiving royalty rights?22:20
javispedrowhat other kind of agreement can be done?22:21
freddddMany.22:21
freddddPatents for patents.22:21
javispedrocrosslicensing22:21
freddddMicrosoft trying to exhort psychological effect on the market with a certain idea.22:21
javispedrobut what's the difference?22:21
freddddRoyalty fees = you just cash in money per sold product.22:22
freddddPatents for patents = sell patents or give permission to use.22:22
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javispedrothe problem as we usually see it is ms collecting anything on trivial stuff22:22
javispedropayment being in physical money, forced crosslicensing or in human souls is not important22:23
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freddddNow you are just taking prejudices and general hate towards the patent system, in this deal, to come to extreme conclusions.22:23
freddddI do not like the patent system and would just as well like to see it pretty much gone too.22:24
freddddBut you can not just judge like that.22:24
* javispedro gtg22:24
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freddddAll this article says is "these companies can now use Microsoft patents to cover on their own Android based devices, gathered within a mutually beneficial deal".22:24
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RST38hEhehehe http://gizmodo.com/5875563/these-should-be-the-real-logos-of-nokia-starbucks-playboy-apple-and-dunkin-donuts22:28
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Macerlol!!22:32
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Macermcdiabetes22:32
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MinosHello23:11
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MinosI’m having troubles with my N900: the file copying speed between the SD card and the internal memory is incredibly slow (less than 1 MiB/s), is that normal?23:13
plateive seen articles citing payments on a per-handsebasis to MS23:13
plateit may be in their SEC filing quarterlies, who knows23:13
platetheres definitely extortion going on :)23:13
platewith teh full backing of the glorious patent system, courtes, etc23:13
* plate always has extremely slow flash performance on n900. emmc internal flash. never tried a SD card23:14
plateive seen pages that claim SD cards might be faster23:14
plateim lucky if i get 500K/second over usb storage, with stalls now and then23:14
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Minosok, I guess I’ll have to be patient then…23:15
platetry SD card if you have one23:17
platealso, try 2.6.37 kernel from rescueOS, perhaps it performs better23:17
platenot sure what is at fault, bus bandwidth, mem controllers, old kernels..23:18
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NIN101plate: eh what?23:20
NIN101rescueOS kernel won't work with maemo. end of story.23:20
platei didnt say maaemo23:20
plateboot into rescueOS, do your copying23:20
plateif the kernel performs any better than that ancient 2.6.2823:21
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NIN101yeah well....23:21
plateif youre transferring 30gb worth of stuff onto myDocs it might be worth a reboot to do if its 10x teh speed :)23:21
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platei mean the 'stalls are suspect to me. it will stoip writing anything for 5 secconds23:22
platethen write 50 or 100K, then stall again23:22
platethen it will write 1MB/second continuous for 30 seconds. so random23:22
mgedminwhat files are those?23:22
platemp3s23:23
platetheyre not a ton of 4 K files23:23
platealmost all of them are 5MB a piece23:23
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mgedminthere's also the tracker indexer/thumbnailer that are busy eating all the CPU extracting id3 tags from your mp3es as they're being written23:23
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DocScrutinizerMinos: known effect - cp runs into swap hell where aggressive swapping out of mempages congests the bandwidth of same controller/interface trying to write same data to final destination on same eMMC chip.23:58
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