IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-01-07

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happymonkeyhello I'm having problems installing Texlive using Easy Debian but the N900 reboot during the process and now I'm getting NFS errors01:26
happymonkeyI've unmounted and did a few, fsck.vfat /dev/mmcblk01p101:27
happymonkeyand I think the actual partition is fine but the chroot seems borked01:27
happymonkeyCan I install TeXLive on my latop and then copy it over or will that fail?01:28
happymonkeyon the chroot that is01:28
happymonkeyI guess everything is compiled for Arm so I would need an Arm emulator?01:29
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_llll_can't think of anything that would stop you copying arm-compiled files happymonkey, but are you sure you habe room for all of texlive?01:42
_llll_also tex on a phone is a strange choice01:43
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psychologei have a question about shortcutd,  when i uesd Browser in fullscreen mode ,i like touch proximityd sensor to back the last page... some time ago it worked good ..but now it can't work,i touch proximityd sensor nothing.i try reinstall shortcutd ,it can work ,but when i reboot N900 ,it can't work ..i used command "while true; do cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state; done" check my proximityd sensor ,work fine..can someone konw why?02:00
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Guest91780Hi, I just wonder if the difference between SDHC and SDXC require new hardware adaption for the XC functionality or just a thing like a new/updated driver?02:19
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Guest91780i.e. does N900 support SDXC fully (assuming a more suitable file system)?02:20
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Guest91780or just at the level of SDHC in terms of speed (for example)?02:21
happymonkey_llll_: it's not a phone it's an internet tablet02:21
happymonkey_llll_: I don't have videos or games on my N900 and ~10GB of music leaves room for a full debian install02:22
happymonkey_llll_: but it's not just copying, I want to install ARM TeXLive on the ARM chroot on a x86_64 laptop02:23
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happymonkey_llll_: not sure why I'm writing to someone who thinks putting LaTeX on a phone is a weird idea02:25
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platewhy is it rebooting02:38
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plateand  ARM chroot on a x86_64 laptop< - ??02:39
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platescratchbox * QEMU ?02:39
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plateyour debian chroot is in vfat? case-sensitivity issues?02:41
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_llll_happymonkey: you do whatever you like, it's your phone. if (when) you get stuck wconfiguring tex, i can help in #latex02:52
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okarataswhere is the maemo apt sources list files?03:33
okaratasNokia-N900:~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list03:33
okaratasis empty03:33
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merlin1991okaratas: most of the sources are added via ham wich in turn puts them in /etc/hildon-application-manager/cataloges04:11
merlin1991and from that creates the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildonblblabla04:11
okaratasmerlin1991, ah okay I seen thank you :)04:12
okaratasmgedmin, thank you sir04:12
okaratasI installed Scratchbox and Maemo 5 SDK04:14
okaratas[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] >04:14
okarataswhat is the Xephyr?04:14
okaratassudo apt-get install xserver-xephyr I installed?04:15
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merlin1991you need to start the xephyr session outside scratchbox04:15
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okaratashm okay04:18
okaratasbut install Nokia-N900?04:18
okaratas$ busybox apt-get install xserver-xephyr04:18
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mgedminthat's totally no04:19
mgedminxephyr is a nested X server, you install it on your laptop alongside Scratchbox04:19
mgedminit's necessary if you want to run your apps in a simulated Maemo 5 environment04:20
mgedminI find that pretty useless and just test on my real N90004:20
mgedmin(well, back when I tried to do development for the N900...)04:20
mgedmin(and, granted, my most of the apps I built were command-line ones :)04:20
okaratasmgedmin, okay I understand, thank you04:20
okaratascoding app strachbox and export screen xephyr, xephyr running my computers.04:22
okaratas[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >export DISPLAY=:204:22
okaratasokay I understand04:22
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* mgedmin about to try the fremantle instructions at
okaratasI read now, thanks mgedmin04:26
mgedminokaratas, since you have a fresh FREMANTLE scratchbox target, could you answer a couple of questions?04:26
mgedminwhat does 'sb-conf show FREMANTLE_ARMEL' print?04:26
okaratas> sb-conf show FREMANTLE_ARMEL04:27
okaratasCompiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm704:27
okaratasDevkits: qemu perl doctools svn git debian-etch04:27
okaratasCPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb04:27
okaratasI using Debian Squeeze04:27
okaratasnot problem, is this correct?04:28
mgedminI would hope so :)04:30
mgedminyou ran the installer, right?04:30
mgedminI'm afraid to run it, since I already have a harmattan scratchbox set up04:30
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mgedminso I'm trying to use the low-level tools to set them both up next to each other04:31
okaratasmgedmin, hm okay what is your using development tools?04:31
mgedminI don't understand04:32
okaratasdo you development mobile applications/tools?04:33
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okaratasyou using scratchbox and xephr?04:33
okaratasis there any other development environments?04:34
mgedminmostly I don't develop :)04:34
mgedminmy goals are to satisfy my own needs04:34
mgedminso (1) I search for existing apps for the device04:34
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mgedminif there are none, I (2) search for an existing Debian package I could port (by simply recompiling it in scratchbox)04:35
mgedminor (3) write a shell or python script to do what I want04:35
mgedminsometimes (4) there's an app that does almost what I want, so I get the sources, patch it, compile in scratchbox, send patch back upstream04:36
okaratasmgedmin, okay thanks :)04:36
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* mgedmin goes to and O_O?!04:53
mgedmin$ busybox apt-get install xserver-xephyr <-- WAT?04:53
* mgedmin posts a small correction for
* mgedmin also fixes that wiki page04:56
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merlin1991mgedmin: why don't you just follow the instructions to manually install a sb alongside your harmattan targets?04:59
mgedminthat's what I just finished doing!05:00
mgedminnow I'm fixing the instructions where they were wrong :)05:00
merlin1991hey I just noticed you were at the n9 hackaton too :D05:00
merlin1991recognized your pic on your comments :)05:00
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merlin1991If I remember correctly you had great fun getting your environment to actually terminate the app on device instead of only your ssh session05:03
mgedminthat's my problem right there in the nutshell: I find it more fun to set up dev environments instead of actually finishing apps05:04
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merlin1991I'll have to follow those instructions to set up a scratchbox target soon myself05:06
merlin1991I need a 2nd arm target for cssu builds :D05:06
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mgedminI remember somebody asked me to build a newer version of bzr for fremantle...05:09
mgedmintough: lots of unmet build dependencies05:09
mgedmine.g. no python 2.605:10
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platehrm. what about using debian sid libs?05:16
plateive had reasonable success with that05:16
mgedminit's not just a build dependency, it's a runtime dependency05:17
plateright, so dpkg -i python2.6 from sid05:17
mgedminI'm not going to port all of debian just so a stranger can get a newer bzr on his n90005:17
mgedminmy altruism has limits, you know :-)05:17
plateif that doesnt work, dpkg -x it into some dir that you LD_LIBRARY_PATH or $PATH into existance05:17
platepython from sid proably works fine with maemo's libc05:18
plateive used a ton of stufffrom sid, but ended up goin gdebian fulltime eventually05:18
platecuz all i used on maemo was maep/qradio, and osm-gps-map is the predecessor to maep and in a ton of distros, and qradio was trivial to compile05:18
plateand illume is imo a preferable WM to the wonky GTK thing on maemo05:18
mgedminI'm on a N9 myself now05:18
platei think im using Meego's kernel, actually05:19
platethats what the rescueOS guy told me05:19
mgedmin1 GB of RAM is strongly preferable to the dinky 256 MB05:19
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plate256mb is a lot of RAM05:28
platei ran Debain for years on a 48mb box fine w/ Opera, irssi, mutt, blahblah05:28
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okaratasI don't installed gcc g++ :(05:53
okaratas# ls05:53
okaratasbinutils_2.18.50.20070820-4+0m5_armel.deb             libgcc1_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb05:53
okaratascpp-4.2_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb                   libgomp1_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb05:53
okaratasg++-4.2_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb                   libstdc++6-4.2-dev_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb05:53
okaratasgcc-4.2-base_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb              libstdc++6_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb05:53
okaratasgcc-4.2_4.2.1-4maemo9+0m5_armel.deb                   linux-kernel-headers_2.6.28-20094803.3+0m5_armel.deb05:53
okaratasErrors were encountered while processing:05:53
okaratas libc6-dev05:53
okaratas libstdc++6-4.2-dev05:53
okaratas g++-4.205:53
okarataswhat is the problem?05:54
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plateyour not using pastebin, and didnt paste all of dpkg's output06:09
mgedminokaratas, (1) learn to use nice pastebins such as instead of flooding IRC channels06:09
mgedminand (2) the error message is above the bit that you pasted06:09
okaratasmgedmin, okay sorry I will note and using pastebin.06:11
okaratasI added repos and I install build-essential06:12
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okaratasmgedmin, I have a question, is it harmful to overclocking?06:16
okaratasoverclock is damaged to the device?06:16
okaratas"kernel-config limits 250 850"06:17
mgedminthere was a Nokia engineer presentation during one event (forgot which)06:17
mgedminand one slide said "don't overclock, you'll reduce your hardware lifetime" or something to that effect06:17
okaratasokay, I understand.06:19
okaratasbut I not running kernel-config command06:19
okarataswhat is the package?06:19
luke-jrokaratas: overclocking pretty much guarantees you'll damage it06:22
luke-jrthat applies to everything06:22
robbiethe1stOverclocking will wear out the chip faster06:22
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robbiethe1stThe only question is, will it fail before you get rid of the device, or before something else fails?06:23
okaratasluke-jr, so I will use the standard and default kernel's.06:23
luke-jrokaratas: power kernel is fine by default06:23
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okaratasluke-jr, okay thanks06:23
luke-jralso, you need to disassemble it and solder the USB port down06:23
luke-jror it will break off06:23
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luke-jryou can easily damage the camera trying, so be careful06:25
okaratasluke-jr, I installed kernel-power-settings package, is this package is damaged and dangers?06:25
luke-jrdunno that one06:26
okaratas"This kernel version 2.6.28-omap1 is not supported"06:27
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okaratasI installed opera.install file and I send opera.install file to N90007:09
okarataswhat is install procedure to .install file?07:10
merlin1991open it directly from the n900 browser07:11
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okaratasmerlin1991, okay07:13
okaratasFailed to fetch  404 Not Found07:13
okarataswhat is best file manager program?07:14
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r00t|homeokaratas: bash07:43
r00t|home(+gnu fileutils)07:44
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okaratasmaemo is not supported unzip and unrar?08:31
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Sicelou can install packages for unzip/unrar08:35
okaratashm okay I added fremantle-1.3 extras-devel repos to sources.list08:36
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okaratasre i using xchat maemo09:17
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ultra420Finally i  fixed my N900's hardware is caused by the flash memeory chip on the board. it costed me $40.0 .-_-! Then the error code in dmesg "I/O error read ... failure" never came up again.09:24
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Sicelou replaced chip?09:27
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Palihello, what is preffered way to reboot N900?13:14
Palidsmetoo -b13:14
Palior /etc/init.d/minireboot ?13:15
SpeedEvilshutdown -r -t 0 now?13:16
Paliand how dsmetool -b working? I see that after reboot n900 does not ask me for PIN code13:16
PaliSpeedEvil, I think that shutdown should be only wrapper for halt, poweroff and reboot13:16
Palior do same...13:17
Paliso in n900 is upstart init daemon13:17
PaliSpeedEvil, any idea why after reboot with dsmetool does not ask me for PIN?13:18
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lofty306whaat i do?13:19
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Palifreemangordon, see ^^^ do you know someting about dsmetool?13:21
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badcloud_is there a flashable image of gentoo for the n900?13:32
jogaheh I wonder how long it would take to compile openoffice on the n90013:32
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badcloud__stupid net connection...13:33
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Sicelobadcloud__: as luke-jr for his :)13:35
PaliDocScrutinizer, any idea about dsmetool?13:35
badcloud__Sicelo: thanks13:36
Sicelojoga: loooong. btw, u are aware Easy Debian has it?13:36
DocScrutinizerPali: a bit13:36
badcloud__luke-jr: link to flashable gentoo image?13:36
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PaliDocScrutinizer, see about PIN code ^^^13:36
DocScrutinizerso what?13:36
Paliif I use dsmetool -b for reboot, after reboot n900 does not ask me for PIN code13:37
DocScrutinizeryes, isn't it nice?13:37
Palihow it works?13:37
Paliit store my pin code somewhere?13:37
badcloud__is it unusual for the easy debian installer to cause reboot when installing on MyDocs and without uSD (swap?)?13:37
DocScrutinizersome env somewhere telling dsme to boot up "warm" and what's the PIN to use13:38
NIN101afaik, no, badcloud, not unusual13:38
badcloud__NIN101: ah, ok13:38
badcloud__that's what I think screwed up my system13:38
badcloud__I can't boot13:38
DocScrutinizerwith OM/SHR opkg we had the problem that a simple update failed due to missing free mem, so we used some cmdline like "for pk in `opkg --listall` do opkg --install $pk; done"13:41
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Sicelointeresting that people have reboots as a result of Easy Debian. been using it without issue since i got my N90013:42
NIN101on my first days with N900 I had also the reboot problem while unpacking Easy Debian. Now I don't use it anymore, i rather debootstrap debian directly from the repos.13:44
Sicelowithin maemo?13:44
PaliDocScrutinizer, it is possible to restart N900 with 'sudo reboot' to not ask PIN code too?13:45
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badclouddis shr only installable on uSD?13:45
DocScrutinizer51probably only if you'd RE what dsmetool does13:46
NIN101Sicelo: yes, takes some time, but is ok.13:46
DocScrutinizer51so why not use dsmetool?13:46
Paliwhat is differences in dsmetool -b and sudo reboot?13:47
Palidsme is open source, I try to find how it works...13:47
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DocScrutinizerstrace dsmetool will probably also show what's going on, though I guess it just sends an IPC msg to dsme daemon13:52
PaliDocScrutinizer, dsmetool only send reboot request to dsme daemon13:52
PaliDocScrutinizer, also in dsme code is nothing about "warm" or "pin"13:53
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DocScrutinizeryeah, sure13:53
DocScrutinizerit's sth like credentials I bet, or maybe cmt_pw, or whatever13:54
RST38hDoc: Seen the Nokia news?13:54
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DocScrutinizernope, which news?13:54
SpeedEvilRST38h: the alleged denied merger?13:54
RST38hNo, much funnier13:54
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RST38hAnd here is the wonderful product this company is making:
RST38h(if you have been eating, please, stop before following these links)13:55
RST38hOh, sorry, too late13:55
RST38hMy guess is that this ugly fuckling will be ported on top of WinCE and replace Meltemi.13:56
SpeedEvilI'm betting patents.13:56
RST38hMaybe I do not understand something though, dunno13:56
mavhcnokia doesn't get software at all13:57
RST38hThis is real fun:
RST38hmavhc:Not Nokia.13:57
DocScrutinizerRST38h: just anothr OS, MEH13:58
RST38hI mean, look at the wonderful progress these guys are making on their product! MultiSim! Bidirectional text! Posting to Facebook, for Tentacled's sake! Aren'tyou impressed?13:58
jogaSicelo, yeah I've tried it on easy debian13:58
jogaafter making a usb adapter for it it's much easier to use with a normal mouse ;)13:59
DocScrutinizer38: I couldn't be less excited13:59
RST38hDoc: Man, you do not understand the whole mobile revolution14:00
RST38hThe user interface of Smarterphone OS is programmed in a scripting language, which is a variant of Scheme with object-oriented extensions.14:01
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RST38h(explains why they are only adding bidi support and facebook now)14:01
* RST38h considers trolling Qt folks about this14:02
DocScrutinizer>>Better datetime picker. << Did Nokia fianlly get a decent date/time picker to replace all the mindboggling slotmachine fsckup? HOORAY, the smarterphone purchase been worth every cent then :-P14:02
* RST38h liked the slot machine14:03
RST38hI am not sure the smarterphone folks' definition of "better" is the same as yours though14:03
DocScrutinizerincredibly clumsy, unbearable for dates14:03
RST38hMaybe by "better" they mean "no need to type it as text"14:03
DocScrutinizertry to convert "we meet again Friday in two weeks" to a appointment in your maemo ^W harmattan callendar14:04
badccloudf-ing Murphy's law; when I bash gentoo, luke-jr's around. when I want to try it out, nowhere to be found14:04
* RST38h keeps all appointments in his head14:06
RST38hbadccloud: You should not have spoiled your karma by bashing something you have never used14:07
badccloudRST38h: well put14:07
RST38hbadccloud: Furthermore, you shall not tarnish your karma by installing Gentoo.14:07
RST38hJust get Ubuntu, like all normal people, and forget about the whole distro wars14:07
badccloudRST38h: how does it run14:08
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PaliDocScrutinizer, in dsme code is nothing special. It only send broadcast message to all dsme modules and to dbus, that dsme changed status to REBOOT.14:20
Pali Then it run /sbin/telinit -t 0 614:20
PaliIn dsme is really nothing about SIM/PIN code14:20
Paliand in dsme modules too14:21
Paliso maybe only if some external app monitoring dsme dbus signals and do some black magick...14:21
DocScrutinizerthen maybe cmt stack somewhere notices the REBOOT and stores PIN somewhere14:22
DocScrutinizeryes, exactly14:22
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DocScrutinizerlook, in settings there's an option "ask for PIN at boot [yes|no]"14:23
SpeedEvilOr modem doesn't reauth14:23
DocScrutinizerfind out who's taking care about this, and you know who's doing the reboot-without-PIN magic14:24
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SpeedEvilmaybemodem needs told to forget pin14:24
DocScrutinizerwhen modem reboots, it shall forget PIN14:24
ShadowJKiirc when my modem was crashing/autoreseting, the pin dialog reappeared14:25
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PaliDocScrutinizer, settings option to ask/not ask for PIN is for SIM card. SIM card can support no pin option14:33
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PaliI tried "telinit -t 0 6" manually, but it asked me PIN too14:37
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jacekowskicircuits drawn with pencil on a piece of paper15:23
jacekowskii thought that pencil has higher resistance15:23
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fizzieThey used to unlock the clock multiplier on some AMD CPUs by reconnecting some cut traces with pencil.15:27
fizzie(It was quite a short gap, though.)15:28
bindipencil mod15:28
freddddRobot101, are you available?15:29
bindiand you dont reconnect anything, fizzie15:29
bindiyou block stuff with it15:29
bindii think15:29
bindiactually nevermind lol, stupidity on my part15:30
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fizzieThe video might use a special pencil, though, given that it says "a conductive pen from the Lewis lab at UIUC" in the beginning.15:31
bindigraphite conducts electricity15:31
bindimisread, yeah they probably have something other than a graphite pencil15:31
SpeedEvilEven ordinary pencil will pullup high impedencesuff15:31
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PaliI think I found reason why n900 does not asking PIN after reboot15:35
Paliwhen sscd daemon is stopping it reset cmt15:35
bindino pin set on sim? ;)15:35
Paliwhen I run sudo reboot in syslog is output that sscd daemon is stopping and closing cmt line15:36
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Palibut when dsmetool -b is called in syslog is only that sscd daemon was stopped, but no output that sscd daemon cloased cmt line...15:37
Palisscd daemon is in package ssc-daemon15:37
Paliin changelog of that deb package is:15:38
Palissc-daemon ( fremantle; urgency=low15:38
Pali* Do not power CMT off when APE is rebooting. Fixes: NB#145490.15:38
PaliNB#145490 means?15:39
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jaskanokia internal bugtracker reference iirc16:01
freemangordonPali, Nokia Bug?16:01
Palinow I stopped sscd, then started manually without upstart and called sudo reboot16:02
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Paliafter reboot was no ask for PIN code16:02
Paliso sscd must know when dsme started rebooting and when reboot was started throw init daemon16:03
Paliand really "strings /usr/sbin/sscd | grep -i dsme" show strings:16:03
Pali%s:%d listen to DSME signals16:03
Paliso sscd can handle dsme reboot and not close cmt line...16:04
Robot101fredddd: hey16:05
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Robot101fredddd: I made the patch and merlin1991 has built the package for you16:05
freddddRobot101, I am ready, the SDK environment is setup.16:05
freddddThat does too. =p16:06
Palinow my question is: can we send to sscd that dbus signal (dsme shutdown_ind)?16:06
freddddDid anyone test to see if it worked, and in turn suggested it to be included with CSSU?16:06
Robot101I was talking to them about cssu inclusion - you need to help test it first :)16:06
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freddddGive me the instructions and I will give it a go.16:08
freddddThank you for all the help so far Robot101!16:08
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Robot101fredddd: the package is at
merlin1991fredddd: nope the package is at :D16:22
Robot101*cough* :)16:22
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Robot101and if you're curious / suspicious the patch is
freddddHave little experience with manually installing deb packages. x.x16:24
freddddwget link16:24
fredddddpkg -i package?16:25
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freddddThen, reboot? Or will things be in place already?16:25
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Robot101just set all your accounts offline and make sure telepathy-gabble is not running16:25
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freddddHow to check if it is running?16:27
Robot101pgrep telepathy-gabble16:27
Robot101if maemo has such a thing16:28
Robot101if not, ps | grep gabble16:28
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merlin1991it's easier on maemo to just issue a reboot :D16:31
freddddYes, I was considering that. x316:32
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freddddI can easily purge it afterwards, after testing?16:32
merlin1991you should be able to intall the old package with apt-get16:32
freddddHow can I tab complete a file name?16:34
freddddOn the Nokia N900?16:34
merlin1991xterm has a tab button on screen16:34
freddddIt requires sudo privileges.16:34
merlin1991ofc it does16:34
* fredddd never does a lot of fancy stuff with his Nokia N900 must you know16:35
freddddSo I must grab the root package thing. x.x16:35
merlin1991do you have rootsh installed?16:35
merlin1991get it ;)16:35
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freddddI only use my N900 to use contacts, calendar, XMPP and email.16:35
freddddThe applications, and some desktop widgets, nothing else.16:35
merlin1991btw to go back the command would be "apt-get install libloudmouth=1.4.1-0osso10+0m5"16:35
freddddTo the old one you mean?16:35
merlin1991also requires root16:36
freddddYeah I will afterwards, going to test, confirm working, then step off of it to be back on the CSSU one.16:36
freddddPerhaps if I developed for this device myself I would be more comfortable having all these things installed on it all the time. =p16:36
freddddBut I am just a simple man, that likes the convenience of official repositories. x316:36
freddddMatter of fact I would rather get two Nokia N900 devices. x.x16:37
freddddIf that were the case.16:37
Robot101the cssu one will be the same, you can just keep this one (which will hopefully work) until the cssu one appears and it will replace it16:37
freddddA dev one, and a personal use one. =p16:37
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merlin1991fredddd: if the patch works as expected the cssu package will be indeed the same16:39
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freemangordonPali, ping16:43
Palifreemangordon, I got mail16:43
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freemangordonyep :D16:43
freddddRebooting the device now.16:44
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freddddRobot101, it is it not working, I am going to scroll back to see the command use to capture the log and see what that gives me.16:50
freddddCompared to before, it is taking quite a while to connect, after a while it just says network error and instantly retries.16:51
Robot101fredddd: aww16:52
Robot101LM_DEBUG=all GABBLE_DEBUG=all GABBLE_PERSIST=1 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble 2>&1 | tee gabble.log16:52
freddddI installed the package and rebooted, and then tested.16:54
freddddBut going to run the debug instance now.16:54
freddddAnd see what the log wants to tell me.16:54
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merlin1991that looks bad (TM)17:07
Robot101well half the battle is done, it's /not/ matching with the * wildcard :D17:08
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Robot101why is it not finding any subjectAltName extension...17:12
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Robot101how the hell does openssl s_client work again17:14
Robot101I'm sure I've had it print the cert for me17:14
Robot101fredddd: has the same cert? it also has a redirect loop which means my browser gives me an error rather than a certificate to look at :D17:16
freddddYeah, I am still resolving that at #lighttpd. =p17:18
freddddSetup a rewrite and trying to redirect properly.17:18
freddddBut, regardless.17:18
Robot101I'd like to look at your certificate, can you pastebin it somewhere?17:18
freddddThe XMPP server should not even bother doing anything with the HTTP web server @
freddddIt is not even on the same server as the XMPP server.17:19
freddddThere is only one certificate, it is used for everything.17:19
freddddMail, web, XMPP, and so forth.17:19
freddddI will fix the HTTP server for now hold on.17:19
Robot101yes. one certificate I can't retreive for some reason :)17:19
Robot101got it17:20
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freddddRobot101, if it can be of any help, this is the SSL page, I have the standard wild card option:
freddddGandi has their own channel on this network at #gandi-hosting were you to direct any questions towards them regarding their SSL operations.17:29
freddddBut in the end they seem to be a COMODO reseller.17:29
Robot101the certificate looks OK to me, I'm trying to figure out why our code won't match it17:31
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Robot101how the utter (&*(AS is OpenSSL meant to work17:37
freddddThe command line thing?17:38
Robot101no, looking at the X509 API17:38
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ShadowJKis that some key exchange thing?17:41
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Robot101it's the X509 is the formatting/representation of SSL certificates17:43
Robot101OpenSSL has API for parsing/manipulating/etc them17:43
Robot101fredddd's certificate isn't being accepted by the XMPP client on Maemo, so I copied in some newer code... but it's not working either17:43
Robot101our company OpenSSL guru (who wrote the code) isn't online atm17:44
luke-jr[06:36:27] <badcloud__> luke-jr: link to flashable gentoo image?17:44
luke-jr^ lol17:44
freddddIf it can be of any help, as I find myself to be of little help towards you guys in this, Gajim (desktop XMPP client) operates through it fine.17:44
Robot101fredddd: jooi, have you tried Empathy on the desktop?17:44
freddddLooking it up.17:45
Robot101it would be useful to know if that didn't work too, as we'd know this code actually didn't work with your cert at all, eliminating some doubt about OpenSSL on Maemo somehow17:45
freddddIs it a GNOME 3 thing?17:45
freddddI use Trisquel GNU/Linux, it is based on Ubuntu but throwing all the non-free stuff out, it is still using GNOME 2.17:46
Robot101it's a GNOME thing - since GNOME 217:46
freddddTrisquel comes with Pidgin by default, so I guess not?17:46
freddddInstalling it.17:46
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freddddRobot101, working fine on first sight.17:48
freddddInstalled it, gave my details, it logged in and showing my contacts.17:48
freddddEncryption Required is not ticked by default.17:49
Robot101thats fine17:49
freddddI ticked Encryption Required.17:49
Robot101it opportunistically encrypts - but you could tick that and log out / in again if yu want17:49
freddddDisabled, enabled, still working fine.17:49
Robot101ok so something weird is going on17:50
freddddEmpathy looks lovely.17:50
Robot101I have to turn on X509v3 somehow?17:50
freddddIf it supports GPG I might use that instead.17:50
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Robot101it doesn't :( sorry17:50
freddddx.x D:17:50
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freddddBack to Gajim then. :X17:52
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freemangordonPali, are building new kernel?18:05
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freddddRobot101, any news?18:33
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Robot101fredddd: am a bit stuck, waiting to find a guru / friend with more OpenSSL skillz than me18:35
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Robot101fredddd: the guy who wrote that code is looking at it atm on #telepathy :)19:51
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fledermausfredddd: hello - you were able to connect from your desktop, right? was that using openssl or gnutls?19:55
Robot101fledermaus: ubuntu so I guess gnutls19:57
fledermausI'm going to build a wocky version with openssl and see if it can get past the ssl stage20:00
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freemangordon~seen MohammadAG20:16
infobotmohammadag is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego, last said: 'javispedro, ssu chan'.20:16
freemangordonMohammadAG, ping20:16
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DocScrutinizerI actually wonder why everybody is asking infobot first whether somebody is here, rather than just looking at userlist or simply trying tab nick-completion20:19
DocScrutinizer2012-01-07 19:20:30] <DocScrutinizer> !seen ChanServ20:20
DocScrutinizer[2012-01-07 19:20:31] <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer, if you can't see ChanServ here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^20:20
bindi/whois is a wonderful tool too20:21
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, because presense in userlist does not giva a clue what is user activity20:21
DocScrutinizerso does infobot ~seen ??20:22
dm8tbrfor that god gave /whois20:22
freemangordonwell, "~seen" WFM20:23
DocScrutinizer[2012-01-07 19:16:15] <infobot> mohammadag is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego, last said: 'javispedro, ssu chan'.20:24
DocScrutinizer*very* informative20:24
DocScrutinizerthis tells me... err.. that moh is on 4 chan. well I could see this in the userlists if I wouldn't already know by heart. It also tels me what he posted last - hell, what a wealth of info20:25
DocScrutinizer3 chan actually20:25
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, apart of my IRC skills, do you have any sign from MohammadAG when the CSSU update will happen?20:26
dm8tbr.oO(on 4chan...)20:26
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG seems virtually unreceptive as usual for the last months20:27
DocScrutinizerworse is he denies the fact and the problems this introduces for the rest of us20:27
freemangordonyeah, you know I agree on that20:28
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merlin1991I'll ask him about taking over when he doesn't show till sunday20:29
merlin1991can't be that we wait for that testing release forever when we already have new stuff in line20:29
freemangordonand the worst is that the one with powers to change that does not seem cooperative too (I mean X-Fade). merlin1991, as you probably remember we've discussed that 2 months ago.20:30
freemangordonbackup admins, al this stuff20:30
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Estel_NIN101,  ping?20:37
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DocScrutinizerwell, somehow CSSU is really starving, almost dead21:05
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  ?21:06
freddddRobot101, did he leave?21:07
Robot101fredddd: pinged out I guessed21:07
Robot101to be fair to him, it is the weekend, and what I was asking him to look at is identical to his job... :)21:10
RST38hDoc: What have you contributed to CSSU,personally?21:10
DocScrutinizerme??? ranting ;-P21:10
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you probably better ask others about that21:11
RST38hDoc: Here you have it.21:11
DocScrutinizerperonally I hope I gave good advice every now and then21:11
RST38hMeanwhile: Israel Says It Will Treat Online Credit Card Theft As It Would Terrorism21:12
DocScrutinizerpfff, in Israel waering wring clothes is terrorism21:12
DocScrutinizerwearing wrong clothes*21:13
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RST38hDoc: No, I think they meant a ittle different thing21:13
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RST38hThey are basically saying that they will not abide international borders when fighting cc theft, same as they do it with terrorism21:13
DocScrutinizerdid they ever respect nation borders, on any topic?21:14
RST38hmore or less21:14
RST38hBut then, neither do many other states, when it comes to their pet peeves21:15
RST38hConsidering CC theft one of these peeves is new though.21:16
DocScrutinizerno, publicly announcing it is *maybe* new21:16
DocScrutinizerregarding this particular issue of playing world's deputy rangers, Israel always been USA's special forces21:18
DocScrutinizerno matter what the reason to act however they deem appropriate, in any region in the world21:19
DocScrutinizerbe it CC theft, hacking, terrorism of *any* kind (according to their definition of terrorism), or mere industry espionage21:20
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DocScrutinizeractive of course, not defense against...21:20
RST38hDoc: Man, spare us all from conspiracy theories21:21
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DocScrutinizerthat's no conspiracy neither theories. That's plain facts you can find in even wikileaks embassy bulletins21:22
RST38hURL or it didn't happen.21:22
DocScrutinizergoogle is your friend21:23
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  I wasn't folllowing discussion from the beginning, so I don't know what is Your problem with CSSU (that got quite a momentum now, if You ask me)21:23
DocScrutinizerhell, that's very basic common knowledge for slightly politically interested people21:23
Estel_but, as with USA-Israel thing, it's common knowledge21:23
merlin1991well Estel_the problem is there is momentum, but no way to get the build stuf into the repo21:24
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Estel_what? bug again?21:24
DocScrutinizerno, mere "not available"21:24
RST38hOk. No evidence - no doughnut.21:24
* DocScrutinizer hates doughnuts ;-P21:25
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DocScrutinizerwikileaks' embassy bulletins are a good evidence though21:25
DocScrutinizeras is USA's reaction against Asange resulting from that21:26
* RST38h will rig a script to ask for URL every time someone mentions "good evidence"21:26
DocScrutinizerRST38h: sorry dude, if you never heard of wikileaks, I can't help21:26
Estel_screw wikileaks, I've just checked irc log21:26
RST38hURL to a particular US embassy bulletin supporting your claim.21:26
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I'm not your private google service21:27
Estel_goddamnit, I know MohammadAG contributions etc21:27
Estel_but, with all due respect21:27
RST38hMohammad is an obvious terrorist, yes21:27
Estel_can't the maintainer be changed like it was with kernel-power?21:27
RST38hAnd monkeys fly out of my ass every morning21:27
Estel_RST38h,  it's sophism21:27
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Estel_DocScrutinizer asked You to google for specified wikileaks material21:28
RST38hEstel: CSSU-wise, if you would like to contribute, you contribute21:28
Estel_RST38h,  can contribute, if maintainer isn't pushing new version21:28
DocScrutinizerRST38h: stop that bullshit please21:28
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RST38hEstel: But if you just want to bitch about nobody working on know where it goes21:28
Estel_open irc logs and check conversation with freemangordon21:28
Estel_RST38h,  again with all due respect, I'm not sure if You ever know what we're talking about21:29
* RST38h has read a lot of freemangordon's logs21:29
DocScrutinizerobviously not, RST38h is in a mood to argue - nothing else21:29
RST38h[and knows what the issue was between freeman and Doc]21:29
Estel_I don't see particular reason of arguing with people ranting, that contributions aren't pushed to -testing, because maintainer playis with N950 toy21:30
DocScrutinizerooh, issues? tell me more about it21:30
Estel_issue, lol?21:30
DocScrutinizeror STFU now!21:30
fledermausfredddd: what version of openssl are you using there, ooi?21:30
Estel_they seemed to agree 100% to me21:30
Estel_url to IRC log line about their issue or it didn"t happen - to give You a taste of Your own medicine21:31
freddddfledermaus, I use Trisquel.21:31
DocScrutinizerEstel_: +1 :-D21:31
freddddSorry, I have to go. D:21:31
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Estel_DocScrutinizer,  freemangordon, anyway. Isn't it time to ask ─łouncil' to contact goddamnit X-fade to replace CSSU maintainer, due to unresponsivness without prior warning?21:32
Estel_AFAIK there is no problem of having multiple maintainers21:33
DocScrutinizernot replace, extend to a stand-in21:33
Estel_so, it can be even +add another| instead of ~replace21:33
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991 seemed to stand up21:34
DocScrutinizercssu-S was flawless so far21:34
DocScrutinizerI'd support this21:34
DocScrutinizermerlin1991 doing an awesome job21:35
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DocScrutinizer[2012-01-07 19:29:16] <merlin1991> I'll ask him about taking over when he doesn't show till sunday21:37
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Estel_I agree that merlin1991 is de facto maintainer now21:37
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: please consider supporting merlin1991 to maintain cssu-t21:37
Estel_X-Fae isn't reading irc anymore. He's ignoring Pali's pings for half of an years21:38
Estel_pings about problem with repository bug, I must add21:38
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: MohammadAG obviously got some RL right now, and that's a good thing - for him. Not for CSSU though. So he needs a stand-in21:38
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: ^^^21:38
DocScrutinizerand I thought it's just me who got on his ignore list21:39
Estel_I love real life. Yet, I hate, when people warp out to real life without leaving a single note about it21:39
Estel_Well, it's nice to get money from Nokia as full-*time job21:39
Estel_then, shift interest to other projects (tm) and check mail once per 6 months21:40
DocScrutinizerother interests == meego/harmattan21:40
Estel_That's why I'm supporting the idea of cutting ties to Nokia as soon as possible - they're unresponsive on even simplest things21:40
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Estel_You know, SD69 can't even get info about ,bandwidth usage statistic of infrastructure21:42
Estel_fow 3 months already ;)21:42
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Estel_BTW, slightly different topic - queswtion for old hardware hacker like You21:43
DocScrutinizerI'm leaving21:43
Estel_You've probably heard about USB VGA adapters (in reality, simple USBZ video cards) - some of them even got linux modules21:43
Estel_but it's pita to find one woprking flawlessly under linux21:43
Estel_I thought about using Raspberry Pi21:44
SpeedEvilyes, as the makers release no specs21:44
SpeedEvilEstel_: not insane21:44
DocScrutinizerjavispedro used one of such critters with H-E-N21:44
Estel_as device acting like such thing21:44
SpeedEvilEstel_: you could implement a gadget driver on pi.21:44
* DocScrutinizer waits for the question21:44
SpeedEvilEstel_: Acting like a USB ethernet adpator that implemented VNC21:45
SpeedEvilOr X, or whatever21:45
DocScrutinizernah, later. Sorry21:45
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Estel_SpeedEvil,  nice21:45
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  no worries, see ya21:45
Estel_well, I got idea, but lack knowledge if it's even possible, and if yes, how21:46
Estel_SpeedEvil think that it's possible to use Rasp as gadget usb tool21:46
Estel_it would be nice21:46
Estel_SpeedEvil,  VNC and USB-ethernet is thing I thought about21:46
Estel_but, isn't VNC little too slow?21:46
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Estel_You know, lets put aside performance wasting, isn't there any other way of sending video data more directly?21:47
Estel_some other, more real-time remote desktop solution (FOSS of course) would work, but, erm, encapsulating our desktop etc over usb to raspberry hdmi out (take my non-technical use of words with grain of salt) would be best21:49
Estel_X forwarding over SSH seems to be a little buggy when N900 runs forwarded programs21:49
SpeedEvilEstel_: yes, quite21:49
SpeedEvilIn principle, you just use X21:49
SpeedEvilas the 'easy' way21:49
SpeedEvilexport DISPLAY=pi:021:49
SpeedEviland you're done21:49
Estel_is it possible to achieve with existing tools, or one need to develpp/code own?21:49
Estel_yay, sounds nice21:50
SpeedEvil(if X is up on the pi, and configured to accept connections21:50
Estel_expected performance (i.e. low/none lags)?21:50
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Estel_as my very low knowledge about X goes, it should be blazing fast?21:50
SpeedEvilIt depends.21:51
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SpeedEvilFor normal stuff, fine.21:51
Estel_and support different resolutions? (other than our 800x480)21:51
SpeedEvilFor video, it will depend on how it's implemented21:51
SpeedEvilthe resolution is whateve the resolution of the display is21:51
Estel_normal stuff is my priority, but video is alsol interesting. Any hints on best method to implement? The close we get to have hassle-free HDMI output on N900 (using raspberry pi, of course), the better21:52
DocScrutinizervideo using DSP on N900, no way to interface to USB21:53
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SpeedEvilThe 'best' way is to ship the video compressd over onto the pi, and do it there21:53
DocScrutinizerUSB max bandwidt (theory) ~40MBps21:54
DocScrutinizersee SpeedEvil ^^^21:54
Estel_yes, I thought about that also21:54
Estel_pi seems to be quite capable here21:54
Estel_but, desktop, Easy Debian, browsers, etc should all work well?21:55
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Estel_and, it's possible to forward sound through USB, to make use of HDMI sound capabilities?21:55
Estel_I don't mean songs, as this can be thrown into pi21:56
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Estel_or even Pi can use N900 vfat in mass storage mode21:56
Estel_and play it's content21:56
Estel_vfat or whatever we feel fancy21:56
Estel_I mean sound generatedd by programs on N90021:56
Estel_let's say dosbox, from top of my head. May also mean more 'creative' things, than gaming ;)21:57
Estel_it's not a must, but would be nice addition21:57
DocScrutinizerPA ;-P21:57
Estel_same thought here. Bandwidth should be sufficient?21:57
DocScrutinizeror simply a USB soundcard emu21:58
DocScrutinizeryes, audio no problem21:58
Estel_Hm, so beside videos, any thing that we suppose would *not* work?21:58
DocScrutinizererr, video21:59
Estel_3D programs on N900 - no problem?21:59
DocScrutinizerlike in "webcam"21:59
DocScrutinizermight miss isochronous mode, H-E-N/N900 not supporting it21:59
Estel_3D things processed by dsp? (OpenGLES)21:59
Estel_I see21:59
Estel_webcam like video doesn't seem very important at first glance22:00
DocScrutinizerdunno, VNC can handle it, no?22:00
Estel_VNC can handle, but it's too slow22:00
Estel_X should handle it?22:00
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DocScrutinizergood question22:00
DocScrutinizerprolly not22:00
DocScrutinizeror, actually, I dunno22:01
DocScrutinizerhave to run cya22:01
Estel_ok, marked for "we'll see during tests" :D22:01
Estel_SpeedEvil,  Your thoughts about DSP processed 3D programs (games?) exported through X?22:01
DocScrutinizeryour question: "what's the relationship between X and gles?"22:03
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: "It's complicated" ;)22:03
DocScrutinizer:-D o/22:03
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Estel_xkcd could have comix about it22:07
Estel_Anyway, having 100% FOSS, GNU/Linux compliant "USB gadget" that gives N900 abilioty to display via HDMI out on any sane resolution22:09
Estel_+ this "gadget" being another small true computer, capable also of acting as USB LAN adapter22:09
Estel_and able to do plentora of other things22:09
Estel_for 25$/35$ + shipping22:10
Estel_is overkill IMO22:10
Estel_I'm going to22:10
Estel_buy ~10 of them22:10
Estel_@ first batch22:10
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Estel_~chromium on maemo22:16
infobotfrom memory, chromium on maemo is browser that is 100% functional on N900, including synchronization and extensions, via Easy Debian22:16
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plate100 percent lloop-mounted molasses flash + 256 ram swaphell yes22:19
platemidori/tear are decent22:19
platechrome is a bloated pig22:20
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* Sicelo doesnt use it at all22:21
plateso wait , dongle an entire ARM pc off the usb for HDMI?22:22
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Estel_plate,  cant agree22:25
Estel_I'm using chromium via easy debian as main browser on N90022:25
Estel_without any slowdowns22:25
Estel_with 15+ tabs22:25
Estel_plate,  a for raspberry pi, yes ;)22:25
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Estel_without sacrificing possibility of Pi to do other thing22:26
platei need to disable tracker + kill microb-daemon22:26
Estel_basically, You carry Pi with You alongside N900 and You have HDMI out for N900, USB-to-ethernet, +whatever HYou feel fancy and configure pi to do22:26
Estel_for 25 or 35 (if LAN) $22:27
Estel_plate, I'm using ED on dedicated ext4 partition22:27
plateand no usbhostmode cuz pi is host?22:27
Estel_Pi can be host, but can be gadget to22:27
Estel_I have no idea, but I think no hostmode is needed22:27
Estel_as it would be USB networking22:27
Estel_doesnt matter who is host22:28
Estel_then, N900 forward X display to pi22:28
Estel_over USB network22:28
Estel_supercool for me22:28
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Estel_as for Chromium performance - I also use N900 swap *only* on microSD (class 2, sic!)22:28
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Estel_this result in /me can't wait for raspberry pi22:38
Estel_VGA or DVI output was my biggest wish for N900 for a while22:39
DocScrutinizer51this Pi thing WAY too cheap to be true, no?22:40
platei heard there were supply probs due to absurd priving or so22:40
Estel_Fortunatelly, it seems to be overcomed22:41
Estel_I just hope it wont't be looking like buying new Co papers22:41
DocScrutinizer51~dict priving22:41
infobotcould not find definition for priving22:41
Estel_like, You submit for buying 10, and get 222:41
Estel_due to it being reglamented22:41
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer; sort of. It's weird. From what I can gather it's so closed off it actually boots from the gpu and not the cpu.22:41
Estel_hey, afaik pi schemativs are available22:42
Estel_i.e. open hardware like in arduino22:42
Estel_isn't it?22:42
keriobooting from the cpu is too mainstream22:42
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: haha22:42
ShadowJKEstel_; i mean the soc22:42
Estel_I see.22:42
DocScrutinizer51what soc?22:43
infobotsoc is, like, System On Chip - many embedded cpus include a variety of peripherals as well which makes them more than just a CPU.  Send Out Cards -  Summer of Code (a google project)  U of U's School of Computing (
Estel_ok, joking22:43
Estel_btw, DocScrutinizer, how to teahc infobot after few possible meanings for single term?22:44
Estel_I tried to add another meaning to chromium22:44
Estel_but ended up with "but chromium is already something else"22:44
ShadowJKtry chromium is also x22:44
DocScrutinizer51which soc?22:44
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer; some broadcom thing iirc22:45
* DocScrutinizer51 points to snowball22:45
infobotchromium is probably
DocScrutinizer51STE nova SoC22:46
kerioinfobot: chromium is x22:46
Robot101yeah, broadcom super-closed thing :/22:46
infobot...but chromium is already something else...22:46
kerioinfobot: no, chromium is x22:46
infobotokay, kerio22:46
infoboti heard chromium is x22:46
kerioinfobot: chromium is
infobot...but chromium is already something else...22:46
kerioinfobot: no22:46
kerioaww, can't do it like that?22:46
kerioinfobot: no, chromium is
infobotkerio: okay22:46
DocScrutinizer51~forgewt chromium22:47
DocScrutinizer51~forget chromium22:47
infoboti forgot chromium, DocScrutinizer5122:47
kerioDocScrutinizer51: why?22:47
kerioit used to be there before?22:47
ShadowJKinfobot: chromium is 122:47
infobot...but chromium is already something else...22:47
ShadowJKinfobot: chromium?22:47
infobotrumour has it, chromium is browser that is working fast on N900 via Easy Debian - 100% functional, including synchronization and extensions22:47
ShadowJKinfobot: chromium is also
infobotShadowJK: okay22:48
ShadowJKinfobot: chromium22:48
infoboti guess chromium is browser that is working fast on N900 via Easy Debian - 100% functional, including synchronization and extensions, or
ShadowJKinfobot: kerio can't follow instructions22:48
DocScrutinizer51~chromium is probably
infobot...but chromium is already something else...22:49
infoboti guess chromium is browser that is working fast on N900 via Easy Debian - 100% functional, including synchronization and extensions, or
kerioShadowJK: :(22:49
ShadowJKisn't the above response the desired response?22:49
DocScrutinizer51good enough22:49
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer51; "The GPU binary also contains the first stage bootloader"22:50
ShadowJKre raspberrypi22:50
DocScrutinizer51lost track of your ibot messing22:50
DocScrutinizer51~lock chromium22:50
Estel_so we won't have bootloader available on pi22:51
Estel_doesn't matter for our hdmi plans22:51
Estel_but would be great anyway22:51
Estel_Is there *any* decent SoC that isn't closed?22:51
Estel_(and isn't pita to work with?)22:51
DocScrutinizer51dang. Infobot, I'm your master!22:52
ShadowJKmaybe without the 51?22:52
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: no :-D22:53
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DocScrutinizer51hah, missed that for so loooong22:53
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.22:54
infobothmm... docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko22:54
infobotIf you say tset I will not be happy22:54
infobotShut up.22:54
infobottalk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)22:55
ShadowJK"everything is on the SD card, which has a FAT32 partition with GPU firmware and a kernel image, and an EXT2 partition with the rootfs." ... "22:55
ShadowJK"The GPU mounts the SD card, loads GPU firmware and brings up display/video/3d, loads a kernel image, resets the SD card host and starts the ARM."22:55
Estel_I'm noob when it goes to booting, but sounds clever ;)22:56
ShadowJKit sounds extremely weird22:56
DocScrutinizer51does it really matter which CPU runs 'uBoot'?22:56
ShadowJKActually this isn't uboot even22:57
ShadowJKbut they say you can replace linux with uboot instead22:57
DocScrutinizer51that's why ' '22:57
DocScrutinizer51you always can22:57
DocScrutinizer51for the 1st stage BL it doesn't matter (unless secure mode fsckup)22:58
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ShadowJKThis isn't stallman compatible, because stallman would want the 18 megabyte gpu blob in flash inside the chip instead of on sd card ;)22:59
DocScrutinizer51RMS is root mean square to me23:00
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Estel_BTW, if anyone is interested, I just uploaded TrueCrypt 7.1 to -devel23:07
Estel_It seems that scp'ing reduced waiting time from few hours to few mins23:07
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Estel_It was instantly builded and replacd devel version in under 10 mins23:08
Estel_ok, going to prepare backup and test if TrueCrypt 7.1 works as it should after being swallowed by extras builder23:17
Estel_see ya23:17
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kerioDocScrutinizer51: RMS is often root mean square, but sometimes is also Richard M. Stallmann23:26
infobotkerio meant: DocScrutinizer51: RMS is often root mean square, but sometimes is also Richard M. Stallman23:26
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DocScrutinizer51kerio: I meant to say I got a more pragmatic view of things usually23:56
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DocScrutinizer51not that richard was any bad as e.g. poettering, but Imm not as radical as he is, and sometimes I have a good laugh when this foundation is demanding to store wlan blobs in dedicated flash chips 'not to taint the purity of FOSS linux'23:59

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