IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-01-06

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keriobuy a 3ds00:00
freddddThat was my first thought too.00:00
kerioif you want to play a computer game, you need a *computer*00:00
freddddBut I am sure he likes the freedom of a GNU/Linux operating system./00:00
kerioaka a desktop or a laptop00:00
keriowith a *mouse*00:00
freddddWhich lacks entirely with the 3DS.00:00
kerioand a fullsize keyboard00:00
kerioanything else is just a loose imitation00:00
freddddNot really, gaming handheld devices, which are out there, work good.00:01
freddddBut none are as free and open as a Nokia N900.00:01
trampThe N900 is a computer.00:01
keriofredddd: i said "computer games"00:01
kerioi should've said pc games, i suppose00:01
freddddMy N900 does not compute?00:01
freddddN900 = Personal Computer.00:01
freddddIt computes, and it is personal.00:01
trampWith a kbd, mouse and S/Video cables, and EasyDebian, I don't see the difference00:01
keriofredddd: that's not what "personal computer" means, at least nowadays00:01
freddddTo me it does, so just call them games designed for desktop use.00:02
kerioa flammenwerfer does indeed werf flammen, but it doesn't apply to every word00:02
freddddAnything that is wet, is wet to me.00:02
freddddAnything that computes.00:02
freddddIs a computer to me.00:02
kerioalso, the more realtime skills are involved, the less a n900 port is going to be good00:02
kerioturn-based things are probably going to be good enough or more00:03
kerioplaying starcraft on a n900... not so much00:03
freddddBecause Apple calls their computers Mac in and uses it as marketing technique, does not mean it no longer is a personal computer.00:03
freddddMac devices are personal computers, and to me, Apple does nothing else but make a fool out of themselves bashing personal computers.00:03
freddddAn iPad is even more of a personal computer, than a Windows desktop, because it allows only for one user, not multiple user accounts.00:03
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keriopersonal computer, at least to me, implies having a freedom to run whatever shit you want on it00:04
kerioand, nowadays, x86 or x86-64 architecture00:04
trampI like lightweight backpacking, and a phone that doubles as a laptop can be very useful on the move.00:05
keriosadly enough... "able to run windows" is probably a good definition of a pc00:05
kerioand virtual machines don't count00:05
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trampLinux is good for productive uses of the computer.00:06
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trampAnd Debian doesn't discriminate betwee x86, x64 and ARMEL. It supports each.00:07
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trumeeIf i download packages using apt-get -d, is HAM smart enough to see them and not download them again?00:11
* trumee has flaky mobile internet atm, and wants to make sure the packages are downloaded correctly00:12
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javispedrothe other package manager maybe does, though.00:14
javispedroplus, apt-get itself will also not download them again00:14
trumeejavispedro: right, i will install kp49 using apt-get then00:15
* trumee hopefully kp49 wont break bluetooth support like kp48 did.00:15
* trumee bluetooth-headset to be specific00:15
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trampI heard someone mention they were using a BT keyboard and USB mouse to save power. Is there anything to this?00:25
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trampRight in this channel.00:26
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RaimuTo save power compared to what?00:35
trampUsing a BT keyboard and BT mouse.00:36
trampI assume00:36
RaimuSometimes I think "power savings" is to the n900 enthusiasts what "protein" is to bodybuilding wannabes.00:36
SpeedEvilExtremely unlikely.00:37
SpeedEvilAdding an additional device to BT will not significantly raise its power consumptionn.00:37
javispedroRaimu: "overclocking" is that word00:37
Raimujavispedro, that too00:38
trampSpeedEvil: Thank you.00:38
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RaimuMaybe "protein" is overclocking and "diet" is power s(h)avings, then.00:39
trampAre speed, power and screen space not the three most important commodities in the N900?00:39
RaimuYeah, I can see how it gets there, but nonetheless.00:40
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trampI like the double BT idea. You can charge while using it, and optionally use a flashdrive.00:41
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trampAnd there's no problem with the battery meter not updating.00:42
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Robot101fredddd: sorry was eating dinner - MyDocs is the folder that appears on the USB00:48
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Sicelo~/win 2300:59
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Sicelosorry for spam01:01
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DocScrutinizertramp: while using a USB kbd for sure will eat significant amounts of energy01:20
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freddddRobot101, I will continue that tomorrow. ^^01:22
freddddIn a game of Killing Floor before I go to bed. :X01:22
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badcloud_anyone know where I can download minimo?01:45
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badcloud_seems like all links are dead...01:45
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freddddRobot101, I do not permission over the log file to move it.01:51
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fosstuxHow far is Meego on the N900? And can Maemo be completely replaces by Meego?02:02
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Siceloto second queston, No02:10
fredddddddWho was the gentleman helping me before with the SSL issue?02:11
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freddddRobot101, are you available?12:20
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Robot101fredddd: hey, I'll be in the office in a while12:30
freddddRobot101, that means? :312:33
freddddYou will be available?12:33
freddddI have sent you part of the log where the SSL failed yesterday.12:33
freddddI am setting up the Debian system now for the SDK to be on.12:34
Robot101yeah I'll have to take a look when I'm at my computer12:34
freddddWell pretty much it just read the SSL certificate details out, and then said, SSL verification failed right after the part where it listed domain details (*
freddddSo from that I can conclude you are pretty much right about wild card certificates not being supported.12:35
freddddI am not going to need any graphical interface for the SDK, am I?12:36
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BCMMfredddd: for scratchbox?13:27
BCMMfredddd: you can build stuff fine without X; you can use an X server to test apps though13:28
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BCMMit's not much trouble to test stuff on-device though; especially if the binary is small enough to transfer over the wlan quickly13:28
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freddddWhere do I get the latest proper SDK?13:30
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BCMMfredddd: there are instructions on the wiki i think13:35
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freddddAh, thank you, that is a bit more direct.13:37
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edheldilfredddd:  have you got anywhere with the SSL issue?14:30
freddddedheldil, yes, Robot101 identified the Jabber client not being able to deal with wild card SSL certificates properly (*
freddddI am setting up a Debian system with the Maemo SDK to compile as per his instructions to prepare a patch, and hopefully have it accepted by CSSU if pushed thruogh.14:35
Robot101fredddd: right, am at my desk now :)14:36
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edheldilfredddd:  what is the fqdn of your jabber server? Just or st. like ?14:38
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freddddedheldil, XMPP client and server SRV entries leading to xmpp.expressionate, which is a CNAME to, holding an A and AAAA recording to the appropriate IP addresses.14:42*14:42
edheldilso it really is wildcard cert and not SubjAltName14:43
edheldil.. problem14:44
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Robot101edheldil: no, it should be using (the subj alt name) to match14:45
Robot101afaik * should *not* match expressionate.org14:45
edheldilright, it should not14:45
Robot101it should be checking the certificate of the xmpp domain ( not the xmpp server (xmpp.e.o)14:46
Robot101so even though the SRV lookup points to xmpp.e.o, the *.e.o should not match14:46
edheldileh? The name is xmpp.e.o and that should be used to match against *.e.o in DN or SAN14:47
Robot101no, the XMPP client does a SRV lookup on e.o and finds the XMPP server is xmpp.e.o14:47
edheldilah, ok14:47
edheldilif you do NOT explicitly state xmpp.e.o as server14:48
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Robot101it should connect to it and see a certificate that proves xmpp.e.o is the XMPP server for e.o14:52
Robot101it's more obvious if a) the server is on another domain14:52
Robot101or b) imagine your DNS was MITM'd and you were connecting to instead14:52
Robot101you want to know that wherever your connecting to is consistent with the server you expected (e.o) not the results of the DNS SRV lookup - that's not secure14:52
Robot101this is actually a problem for google btw, and why they don't support TLS on XMPP - they'd have to have a certificate for every single domain they hosted14:52
Robot101the XMPP guys are working on some best practice etc so you can use eg DNSSEC to say (and prove) that e.o's XMPP service should be from, and so a certificate from can be trusted14:52
Robot101but that's totally irrelevant to this bug - loudmouth should be correctly looking for in the certificate, and the code is just whack so it doesn't match14:52
Robot101right - if you do that it should check the server name instead14:53
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edheldilRobot101:  I meant that if it's explicitly xmpp.e.o in Maemo's config, it should use that15:04
Robot101edheldil: right15:05
freddddRobot101, still in the midst of following the SDK wiki to install it.15:05
edheldilwhich, it did not either, if I am not mistaken15:06
freddddAt the part where I am obtaining and executing the SDK install script.15:06
Robot101oh, right15:06
Robot101yeah that might be broken too - if it's using starttls it always checks the server name15:06
Robot101wait - no that's right15:06
Robot101you have to use old SSL to make it use the server name15:06
Robot101otherwise how does the server know whether to give you the cert for it's name, or the cert for the domain15:07
edheldilI don't know what 'old ssl' option does15:07
freddddUses the deprecated SSL connection on port 5223.15:07
freddddWhich is not advisable.15:07
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freddddTLS, as it represents itself, is superior towards SSL in security, and when given a choice, TLS should be chosen.15:11
freddddThe details? No idea, never delved into it.15:11
edheldilahh, you mean version of SSL protocol, i.e. flawed SSL2 ?15:12
freddddDetails I never delved into. x.x15:13
edheldilI thought you were talking about starttls being better than plain direct ssl15:13
edheldiltls v1.0 ~~ ssl v3 or st. like that15:14
freddddI know little of this kind of security to really say if any is better than the other, I just know from little research when looking up TLS vs. SSL that TLS is predecessor, which was good enough of a reason for me to favor it.15:14
freddddThank for the correction. x315:15
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edheldilmy pleasure ;-p15:16
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freddddGetting an error during SDK install.15:36
freddddNo executable login, while I added by username to scratchbox.15:36
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freddddI am still stuck with the user issue during the SDK install. =c15:57
Macerwelcome to maemo's shit sdk15:59
Maceruse the image.. thats what i wound up doing15:59
freddddLogging out and in again did the trick.16:00
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Robot101fredddd: the "old" in old SSL just means it's on port 5223, it doesn't mean anything about SSL versus TLS or whatever...16:11
Robot101fredddd: that's negotiated by both ends during SSL handshaking16:11
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edheldilRobot101:  ah, ok, I wondered why it's not doing normal protocol/cipher selection process16:14
Robot101it is - it's just called "old" in XMPP because it's been deprecated by STARTTLS16:14
Robot101with port 5223 it's all SSL'd (certificates are exchanged) before XMPP is used16:15
Robot101with port 5222 you identify the domain etc and then select STARTTLS during negotiation16:15
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freddddRobot101, I think I am almost done with the SDK and ready to follow your build / patch instructions if you have the time.16:15
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freddddRobot101, seems like I am pretty much set.16:28
freddddThe scratchbox is up and configured.16:28
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jophishYo yo yo!16:31
jophishI can't seem to download the latest n900 firmware16:31
jophishDuplicate headers received from server16:31
freddddWhat is the current version, and how come you are updating it now?16:32
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Robot101fredddd: I think the logs you posted me were truncated, could you try and get them somewhere more coherent? or something?16:33
jophishfredddd: I'm giving the phone to a friend. I'd like to wipe it first16:33
freddddRobot101, yeah was not sure if sensitive data was in there.16:34
freddddIt basically started with some XMPP communication data.16:34
freddddIt then was like, SSL, hooray!16:34
freddddList certificate details.16:34
freddddSSL verification failed.16:34
Robot101I'm interested in specifically the lines with LM-SSL16:34
freddddThen it just kept retrying the same thing over.16:34
freddddAh, yeah, hold on getting the logs from the device now.16:35
freddddPut them in MyDocs yesterday to retrieve them today.16:35
freddddRobot101, the logs have no new lines so, pasting the whole line with all that information to you in a private message.16:37
FIQHi! I'm zeroing a SD card with dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/nncblk1 due to card having a corrupt FS. I attempted first to remove the partition with parted and create a new, which failed miserably. So now, I'm zeroing it completly before creating. However, it fails due to "input/output error". I tried again. And again. But it fails, on the exact same byte each time16:37
FIQAny suggestions?16:37
SpeedEvilFIQ: buy a new card16:37
freddddRobot101, sent.16:37
SpeedEvilassuming you're not typoing nnc really16:38
FIQSpeedEvil: preferally not16:38
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FIQI readed somewhere that dd fails on high CPU load on some bytes of SD cards16:39
SpeedEvilIO error is a hardware error.16:39
SpeedEvilIn the card.16:39
FIQwould it work better dd-ing from a desktop?16:39
FIQHmm, fun16:39
SpeedEvilIt's not just coming to the end of the partition - in which case it's expected to end16:39
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freddddRobot101, be back in an hour or so, will be ready to continue the patching and testing then.16:47
Robot101fredddd: so my cunning plan is to steal the code from our new library and drop it in to the appropriate place in loudmouth... :P16:50
Robot101these two functions16:51
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DocScrutinizerhi maemons!16:53
Robot101feels like evil dr. frankenstein somehow16:53
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DocScrutinizerFIQ: probably your card is defect. Try same thing on your PC with a cardreader16:57
DocScrutinizereven if it works there, it may only mean the voltage signal levels and timings are maybe more relaxed there17:01
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ShadowJKhm. ovi store not working for me17:20
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Robot101so where's freddd, I have a patch for him :D19:53
Robot101I can still code! maybe19:53
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Robot101is there a bot to leave a memo for someone?20:06
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NIN101if the user is registered, then you can send him memos.20:07
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Robot101he has then disabled20:09
Robot101I thought we had a bot here which could pounce people when they rejoined the channel20:09
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jce_are there any known bugs related to mobilehotspot 0.3.5 and kernel_power-49?20:14
Sicelothere's also some way to make infobot give someone a message on join Robot101. ask DocScrutinizer if interested20:16
Robot101Sicelo: I thought so20:16
Robot101DocScrutinizer: any clues?20:16
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Robot101also how do you put stuff into CSSU?20:16
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NIN101join #maemo-ssu, ask there20:16
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jce_evidently, 0.3.4 won't work either now.  I'm assuming the updated kernel may be to blame.20:17
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Macerhm. there is a movie about auschwitz that came out20:17
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DocScrutinizerRobot101: onjoin?20:31
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DocScrutinizerwhat'S the issue?20:31
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Robot101DocScrutinizer: just wanted to leave the URLs for this guy so he can test my patch, if his SDK is working20:32
DocScrutinizerPLEASE don't use global onjoins!20:32
Robot101DocScrutinizer: oh so it's not a memo thing, never mind20:32
Robot101he has MemoServ disabled for some reason20:32
DocScrutinizeronjoin actually is a problemantic function20:32
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DocScrutinizersee botmail for an alternative20:46
DocScrutinizer~+help botmail20:46
infobot   Desc: Send someone botmail20:46
infobot  Usage: botmail {for <who>[:] <message>}|stats|check|read20:46
infobotExample: botmail for infobot: you rock!20:46
infobotExample: botmail stats20:46
infobotExample: botmail check20:46
infobotExample: botmail read20:46
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Robot101edheldil: hey, we have a .deb to test that SSL patch if you want?20:48
DocScrutinizerof course see20:48
infobottalk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)20:48
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happymonkeyCurrently what is the most functional free, as in open source, gps software for the N900?21:50
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NIN102depends on what you need21:55
NIN102for navigation/maps I would say Marble with Monav.21:55
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Siceloand don't forget built-in maps can be tweaked to provide voice navigation :)21:57
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happymonkeySicelo: I've seen the thread :)21:57
happymonkeySicelo: I've just never really appreciated Ovi Maps21:57
happymonkeyat least the implementation on the N90021:57
ShadowJKI wonder if the maps are updated, that is, if you delete the cache from MyDocs, if the new maps downloaded are the same as when N900 was released or if they're reasonably current21:58
happymonkeyNIN102: yes for nav. I check out Marble21:58
SiceloShadowJK: it looks like they aren't :(21:59
happymonkeyShadowJK: I just don't want to think on those questions I would prefer to use software I have a bit more control over, but being curious bad.21:59
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ShadowJKI know if you have mao already on n900 it doesn't check22:00
Sicelohmm, that's interesting ShadowJK. i think i'll try something22:01
happymonkeykeep us in suspend Sicelo22:01
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ShadowJKI guess you'd rename cities to cities.bak, then cimpare ovi maps online with browser with ovi maps on phone22:03
happymonkeyNIN102: oh that's wonderful it actually has written directions22:03
Siceloyeah.. that's what i'm doning :)22:03
NIN102yep, marble is cool stuff.22:05
Sicelowow ShadowJK! updated :P:P22:06
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happymonkeySicelo and ShadowJK: why are you so interested in a Nokia product?  Is it somehow superior to our open source tools?22:06
Sicelono happymonkey. i have monav here as well..22:06
SpeedEvil  The datasources.22:06
ShadowJKbecause according to openstreetmap i live 50km from nearest road22:06
SpeedEvilGoogle andbing both have extreme restrictions to what you can do with the raster data22:07
happymonkeyI guess between Google and Nokia it's all about the same22:07
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happymonkeySpeedEvil: oh really?22:07
SpeedEvilYou cannot save (legally) google or bing tiles, ofr use when offline.22:07
SpeedEvilAnd to save them in thesame detail as nokia mops has the UK in (for example) would take many terabytes.22:08
happymonkeyof course not legally, but what is "legal" these days22:08
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* SpeedEvil fails to find ShadowJK's address, and add some roads round him in openstreetmap.22:11
DocScrutinizeradding virtual roads? hah22:12
SpeedEvilreal ones22:12
DocScrutinizermaybe you first have to build them ;-D22:12
SpeedEvilBing has given permission to trace, using their imagery.22:13
DocScrutinizercya fellas22:13
* SpeedEvil waves.22:13
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* DocScrutinizer kicks ass of wiki admin :-S22:16
DocScrutinizerhardcore spammer user selling malboro22:17
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merlin1991rofl selling tobbaco on easy debian talk22:28
happymonkeyis it Organic?22:28
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merlin1991it is allegedly cheap22:29
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happymonkeywill it make me bigger or reduce my waiste?22:30
merlin1991I think both22:30
merlin1991it also cures lungcancer22:30
happymonkeythat reminds me I have to reboot my phone by attempting to do an apt-get install -f so I can get texlive up and running on my N90022:32
happymonkeythrough Easy Deb.22:32
happymonkeybut I'm still downloading the full open street maps for Austin, TX and it's only 40% complete22:36
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happymonkeyNIN102: the N900's gps didn't become active when I fired up Marble is there something I need to do to get this started?22:41
NIN102the button on the bottom of marble on the right, press it. IIRC.22:42
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