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| kerio | buy a 3ds | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fredddd | That was my first thought too. | 00:00 |
| kerio | if you want to play a computer game, you need a *computer* | 00:00 |
| fredddd | But I am sure he likes the freedom of a GNU/Linux operating system./ | 00:00 |
| kerio | aka a desktop or a laptop | 00:00 |
| kerio | with a *mouse* | 00:00 |
| fredddd | Which lacks entirely with the 3DS. | 00:00 |
| kerio | and a fullsize keyboard | 00:00 |
| kerio | anything else is just a loose imitation | 00:00 |
| fredddd | Not really, gaming handheld devices, which are out there, work good. | 00:01 |
| fredddd | But none are as free and open as a Nokia N900. | 00:01 |
| tramp | The N900 is a computer. | 00:01 |
| kerio | fredddd: i said "computer games" | 00:01 |
| kerio | i should've said pc games, i suppose | 00:01 |
| fredddd | My N900 does not compute? | 00:01 |
| fredddd | N900 = Personal Computer. | 00:01 |
| fredddd | It computes, and it is personal. | 00:01 |
| tramp | With a kbd, mouse and S/Video cables, and EasyDebian, I don't see the difference | 00:01 |
| kerio | fredddd: that's not what "personal computer" means, at least nowadays | 00:01 |
| fredddd | To me it does, so just call them games designed for desktop use. | 00:02 |
| kerio | a flammenwerfer does indeed werf flammen, but it doesn't apply to every word | 00:02 |
| fredddd | Anything that is wet, is wet to me. | 00:02 |
| fredddd | Anything that computes. | 00:02 |
| fredddd | Is a computer to me. | 00:02 |
| kerio | also, the more realtime skills are involved, the less a n900 port is going to be good | 00:02 |
| kerio | turn-based things are probably going to be good enough or more | 00:03 |
| kerio | playing starcraft on a n900... not so much | 00:03 |
| fredddd | Because Apple calls their computers Mac in and uses it as marketing technique, does not mean it no longer is a personal computer. | 00:03 |
| fredddd | Mac devices are personal computers, and to me, Apple does nothing else but make a fool out of themselves bashing personal computers. | 00:03 |
| fredddd | An iPad is even more of a personal computer, than a Windows desktop, because it allows only for one user, not multiple user accounts. | 00:03 |
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| kerio | personal computer, at least to me, implies having a freedom to run whatever shit you want on it | 00:04 |
| kerio | and, nowadays, x86 or x86-64 architecture | 00:04 |
| tramp | I like lightweight backpacking, and a phone that doubles as a laptop can be very useful on the move. | 00:05 |
| kerio | sadly enough... "able to run windows" is probably a good definition of a pc | 00:05 |
| kerio | and virtual machines don't count | 00:05 |
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| tramp | Linux is good for productive uses of the computer. | 00:06 |
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| tramp | And Debian doesn't discriminate betwee x86, x64 and ARMEL. It supports each. | 00:07 |
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| trumee | If i download packages using apt-get -d, is HAM smart enough to see them and not download them again? | 00:11 |
| * trumee has flaky mobile internet atm, and wants to make sure the packages are downloaded correctly | 00:12 | |
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| javispedro | no | 00:13 |
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| javispedro | the other package manager maybe does, though. | 00:14 |
| javispedro | plus, apt-get itself will also not download them again | 00:14 |
| trumee | javispedro: right, i will install kp49 using apt-get then | 00:15 |
| * trumee hopefully kp49 wont break bluetooth support like kp48 did. | 00:15 | |
| * trumee bluetooth-headset to be specific | 00:15 | |
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| tramp | I heard someone mention they were using a BT keyboard and USB mouse to save power. Is there anything to this? | 00:25 |
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| tramp | Right in this channel. | 00:26 |
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| Raimu | ¬_¬ | 00:35 |
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| Raimu | To save power compared to what? | 00:35 |
| tramp | Using a BT keyboard and BT mouse. | 00:36 |
| tramp | I assume | 00:36 |
| Raimu | Sometimes I think "power savings" is to the n900 enthusiasts what "protein" is to bodybuilding wannabes. | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Extremely unlikely. | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Adding an additional device to BT will not significantly raise its power consumptionn. | 00:37 |
| javispedro | Raimu: "overclocking" is that word | 00:37 |
| Raimu | javispedro, that too | 00:38 |
| tramp | SpeedEvil: Thank you. | 00:38 |
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| Raimu | Maybe "protein" is overclocking and "diet" is power s(h)avings, then. | 00:39 |
| tramp | Are speed, power and screen space not the three most important commodities in the N900? | 00:39 |
| Raimu | Yeah, I can see how it gets there, but nonetheless. | 00:40 |
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| tramp | I like the double BT idea. You can charge while using it, and optionally use a flashdrive. | 00:41 |
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| tramp | And there's no problem with the battery meter not updating. | 00:42 |
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| jkdhsdf | stella | 00:44 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: sorry was eating dinner - MyDocs is the folder that appears on the USB | 00:48 |
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| Sicelo | ~/win 23 | 00:59 |
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| Sicelo | sorry for spam | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tramp: while using a USB kbd for sure will eat significant amounts of energy | 01:20 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, I will continue that tomorrow. ^^ | 01:22 |
| fredddd | In a game of Killing Floor before I go to bed. :X | 01:22 |
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| badcloud_ | anyone know where I can download minimo? | 01:45 |
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| badcloud_ | seems like all links are dead... | 01:45 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, I do not permission over the log file to move it. | 01:51 |
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| fosstux | How far is Meego on the N900? And can Maemo be completely replaces by Meego? | 02:02 |
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| Sicelo | to second queston, No | 02:10 |
| freddddddd | Who was the gentleman helping me before with the SSL issue? | 02:11 |
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| freddddddd | Robot101? | 02:17 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, are you available? | 12:20 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: hey, I'll be in the office in a while | 12:30 |
| fredddd | Robot101, that means? :3 | 12:33 |
| fredddd | You will be available? | 12:33 |
| fredddd | I have sent you part of the log where the SSL failed yesterday. | 12:33 |
| fredddd | I am setting up the Debian system now for the SDK to be on. | 12:34 |
| Robot101 | yeah I'll have to take a look when I'm at my computer | 12:34 |
| fredddd | Well pretty much it just read the SSL certificate details out, and then said, SSL verification failed right after the part where it listed domain details (*.expressionate.org). | 12:34 |
| fredddd | So from that I can conclude you are pretty much right about wild card certificates not being supported. | 12:35 |
| fredddd | I am not going to need any graphical interface for the SDK, am I? | 12:36 |
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| BCMM | fredddd: for scratchbox? | 13:27 |
| BCMM | fredddd: you can build stuff fine without X; you can use an X server to test apps though | 13:28 |
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| BCMM | it's not much trouble to test stuff on-device though; especially if the binary is small enough to transfer over the wlan quickly | 13:28 |
| fredddd | Alright. | 13:29 |
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| fredddd | Where do I get the latest proper SDK? | 13:30 |
| fredddd | http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ | 13:30 |
| fredddd | http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html | 13:30 |
| fredddd | =/ | 13:30 |
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| BCMM | fredddd: there are instructions on the wiki i think | 13:35 |
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| BCMM | fredddd: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation | 13:36 |
| fredddd | Ah, thank you, that is a bit more direct. | 13:37 |
| BCMM | np | 13:39 |
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| edheldil | fredddd: have you got anywhere with the SSL issue? | 14:30 |
| fredddd | edheldil, yes, Robot101 identified the Jabber client not being able to deal with wild card SSL certificates properly (*.expressionate.org). | 14:34 |
| fredddd | I am setting up a Debian system with the Maemo SDK to compile as per his instructions to prepare a patch, and hopefully have it accepted by CSSU if pushed thruogh. | 14:35 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: right, am at my desk now :) | 14:36 |
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| edheldil | fredddd: what is the fqdn of your jabber server? Just expressionate.org or st. like jabber.expressionate.org ? | 14:38 |
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| fredddd | edheldil, XMPP client and server SRV entries leading to xmpp.expressionate, which is a CNAME to acantha.expressionate.org, holding an A and AAAA recording to the appropriate IP addresses. | 14:42 |
| fredddd | xmpp.expressionate.org* | 14:42 |
| edheldil | ok | 14:43 |
| edheldil | so it really is wildcard cert and not SubjAltName | 14:43 |
| edheldil | .. problem | 14:44 |
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| Robot101 | edheldil: no, it should be using expressionate.org (the subj alt name) to match | 14:45 |
| Robot101 | afaik *.expressionate.org should *not* match expressionate.org | 14:45 |
| edheldil | right, it should not | 14:45 |
| Robot101 | it should be checking the certificate of the xmpp domain (@expressionate.org) not the xmpp server (xmpp.e.o) | 14:46 |
| Robot101 | so even though the SRV lookup points to xmpp.e.o, the *.e.o should not match | 14:46 |
| edheldil | eh? The name is xmpp.e.o and that should be used to match against *.e.o in DN or SAN | 14:47 |
| Robot101 | no, the XMPP client does a SRV lookup on e.o and finds the XMPP server is xmpp.e.o | 14:47 |
| edheldil | ah, ok | 14:47 |
| edheldil | if you do NOT explicitly state xmpp.e.o as server | 14:48 |
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| Robot101 | it should connect to it and see a certificate that proves xmpp.e.o is the XMPP server for e.o | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | it's more obvious if a) the server is on another domain | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | or b) imagine your DNS was MITM'd and you were connecting to evil.hacker.org instead | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | you want to know that wherever your connecting to is consistent with the server you expected (e.o) not the results of the DNS SRV lookup - that's not secure | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | this is actually a problem for google btw, and why they don't support TLS on XMPP - they'd have to have a certificate for every single domain they hosted | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | the XMPP guys are working on some best practice etc so you can use eg DNSSEC to say (and prove) that e.o's XMPP service should be from talk.google.com, and so a certificate from talk.google.com can be trusted | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | but that's totally irrelevant to this bug - loudmouth should be correctly looking for expressionate.org in the certificate, and the code is just whack so it doesn't match | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | right - if you do that it should check the server name instead | 14:53 |
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| edheldil | Robot101: I meant that if it's explicitly xmpp.e.o in Maemo's config, it should use that | 15:04 |
| Robot101 | edheldil: right | 15:05 |
| fredddd | Robot101, still in the midst of following the SDK wiki to install it. | 15:05 |
| edheldil | which, it did not either, if I am not mistaken | 15:06 |
| fredddd | At the part where I am obtaining and executing the SDK install script. | 15:06 |
| Robot101 | oh, right | 15:06 |
| Robot101 | yeah that might be broken too - if it's using starttls it always checks the server name | 15:06 |
| Robot101 | wait - no that's right | 15:06 |
| Robot101 | you have to use old SSL to make it use the server name | 15:06 |
| Robot101 | otherwise how does the server know whether to give you the cert for it's name, or the cert for the domain | 15:07 |
| edheldil | I don't know what 'old ssl' option does | 15:07 |
| fredddd | Uses the deprecated SSL connection on port 5223. | 15:07 |
| fredddd | Which is not advisable. | 15:07 |
| edheldil | why? | 15:10 |
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| fredddd | TLS, as it represents itself, is superior towards SSL in security, and when given a choice, TLS should be chosen. | 15:11 |
| fredddd | The details? No idea, never delved into it. | 15:11 |
| edheldil | ahh, you mean version of SSL protocol, i.e. flawed SSL2 ? | 15:12 |
| fredddd | Details I never delved into. x.x | 15:13 |
| edheldil | I thought you were talking about starttls being better than plain direct ssl | 15:13 |
| edheldil | tls v1.0 ~~ ssl v3 or st. like that | 15:14 |
| fredddd | I know little of this kind of security to really say if any is better than the other, I just know from little research when looking up TLS vs. SSL that TLS is predecessor, which was good enough of a reason for me to favor it. | 15:14 |
| edheldil | successor | 15:14 |
| fredddd | Yes. | 15:15 |
| fredddd | Thank for the correction. x3 | 15:15 |
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| edheldil | my pleasure ;-p | 15:16 |
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| fredddd | Hm. | 15:36 |
| fredddd | Getting an error during SDK install. | 15:36 |
| fredddd | No executable login, while I added by username to scratchbox. | 15:36 |
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| fredddd | I am still stuck with the user issue during the SDK install. =c | 15:57 |
| Macer | welcome to maemo's shit sdk | 15:59 |
| Macer | use the image.. thats what i wound up doing | 15:59 |
| fredddd | Logging out and in again did the trick. | 16:00 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: the "old" in old SSL just means it's on port 5223, it doesn't mean anything about SSL versus TLS or whatever... | 16:11 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: that's negotiated by both ends during SSL handshaking | 16:11 |
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| edheldil | Robot101: ah, ok, I wondered why it's not doing normal protocol/cipher selection process | 16:14 |
| Robot101 | it is - it's just called "old" in XMPP because it's been deprecated by STARTTLS | 16:14 |
| Robot101 | with port 5223 it's all SSL'd (certificates are exchanged) before XMPP is used | 16:15 |
| Robot101 | with port 5222 you identify the domain etc and then select STARTTLS during negotiation | 16:15 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, I think I am almost done with the SDK and ready to follow your build / patch instructions if you have the time. | 16:15 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, seems like I am pretty much set. | 16:28 |
| fredddd | The scratchbox is up and configured. | 16:28 |
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| jophish | Yo yo yo! | 16:31 |
| fredddd | x.x | 16:31 |
| jophish | I can't seem to download the latest n900 firmware | 16:31 |
| fredddd | Error? | 16:31 |
| jophish | Duplicate headers received from server | 16:31 |
| fredddd | What is the current version, and how come you are updating it now? | 16:32 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: I think the logs you posted me were truncated, could you try and get them somewhere more coherent? pastebin.be or something? | 16:33 |
| jophish | fredddd: I'm giving the phone to a friend. I'd like to wipe it first | 16:33 |
| fredddd | Robot101, yeah was not sure if sensitive data was in there. | 16:34 |
| fredddd | It basically started with some XMPP communication data. | 16:34 |
| fredddd | It then was like, SSL, hooray! | 16:34 |
| fredddd | List certificate details. | 16:34 |
| fredddd | SSL verification failed. | 16:34 |
| Robot101 | I'm interested in specifically the lines with LM-SSL | 16:34 |
| fredddd | Then it just kept retrying the same thing over. | 16:34 |
| fredddd | Ah, yeah, hold on getting the logs from the device now. | 16:35 |
| fredddd | Put them in MyDocs yesterday to retrieve them today. | 16:35 |
| fredddd | Robot101, the logs have no new lines so, pasting the whole line with all that information to you in a private message. | 16:37 |
| FIQ | Hi! I'm zeroing a SD card with dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/nncblk1 due to card having a corrupt FS. I attempted first to remove the partition with parted and create a new, which failed miserably. So now, I'm zeroing it completly before creating. However, it fails due to "input/output error". I tried again. And again. But it fails, on the exact same byte each time | 16:37 |
| FIQ | Any suggestions? | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | FIQ: buy a new card | 16:37 |
| fredddd | Robot101, sent. | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | assuming you're not typoing nnc really | 16:38 |
| FIQ | SpeedEvil: preferally not | 16:38 |
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| FIQ | I readed somewhere that dd fails on high CPU load on some bytes of SD cards | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | IO error is a hardware error. | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | In the card. | 16:39 |
| FIQ | would it work better dd-ing from a desktop? | 16:39 |
| FIQ | Hmm, fun | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Unlikely. | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not just coming to the end of the partition - in which case it's expected to end | 16:39 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, be back in an hour or so, will be ready to continue the patching and testing then. | 16:47 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: so my cunning plan is to steal the code from our new library and drop it in to the appropriate place in loudmouth... :P | 16:50 |
| Robot101 | http://cgit.freedesktop.org/wocky/tree/wocky/wocky-openssl.c#n849 | 16:51 |
| Robot101 | these two functions | 16:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hi maemons! | 16:53 |
| Robot101 | feels like evil dr. frankenstein somehow | 16:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: probably your card is defect. Try same thing on your PC with a cardreader | 16:57 |
| FIQ | ok | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | even if it works there, it may only mean the voltage signal levels and timings are maybe more relaxed there | 17:01 |
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| ShadowJK | hm. ovi store not working for me | 17:20 |
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| Robot101 | so where's freddd, I have a patch for him :D | 19:53 |
| Robot101 | I can still code! maybe | 19:53 |
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| Robot101 | is there a bot to leave a memo for someone? | 20:06 |
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| NIN101 | MemoServ | 20:07 |
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| NIN101 | if the user is registered, then you can send him memos. | 20:07 |
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| Robot101 | he has then disabled | 20:09 |
| Robot101 | I thought we had a bot here which could pounce people when they rejoined the channel | 20:09 |
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| Robot101 | ~help | 20:09 |
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| jce_ | are there any known bugs related to mobilehotspot 0.3.5 and kernel_power-49? | 20:14 |
| Sicelo | there's also some way to make infobot give someone a message on join Robot101. ask DocScrutinizer if interested | 20:16 |
| Robot101 | Sicelo: I thought so | 20:16 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: any clues? | 20:16 |
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| Robot101 | also how do you put stuff into CSSU? | 20:16 |
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| NIN101 | join #maemo-ssu, ask there | 20:16 |
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| jce_ | evidently, 0.3.4 won't work either now. I'm assuming the updated kernel may be to blame. | 20:17 |
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| Macer | hm. there is a movie about auschwitz that came out | 20:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: onjoin? | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what'S the issue? | 20:31 |
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| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: just wanted to leave the URLs for this guy so he can test my patch, if his SDK is working | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | PLEASE don't use global onjoins! | 20:32 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: oh so it's not a memo thing, never mind | 20:32 |
| Robot101 | he has MemoServ disabled for some reason | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | onjoin actually is a problemantic function | 20:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | see botmail for an alternative | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~+help botmail | 20:46 |
| infobot | Desc: Send someone botmail | 20:46 |
| infobot | Usage: botmail {for <who>[:] <message>}|stats|check|read | 20:46 |
| infobot | Example: botmail for infobot: you rock! | 20:46 |
| infobot | Example: botmail stats | 20:46 |
| infobot | Example: botmail check | 20:46 |
| infobot | Example: botmail read | 20:46 |
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| Robot101 | edheldil: hey, we have a .deb to test that SSL patch if you want? | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course see | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~query | 20:48 |
| infobot | talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :) | 20:48 |
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| happymonkey | Currently what is the most functional free, as in open source, gps software for the N900? | 21:50 |
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| happymonkey | Mappero? | 21:52 |
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| NIN102 | depends on what you need | 21:55 |
| NIN102 | for navigation/maps I would say Marble with Monav. | 21:55 |
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| Sicelo | and don't forget built-in maps can be tweaked to provide voice navigation :) | 21:57 |
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| happymonkey | Sicelo: I've seen the thread :) | 21:57 |
| happymonkey | Sicelo: I've just never really appreciated Ovi Maps | 21:57 |
| happymonkey | at least the implementation on the N900 | 21:57 |
| Sicelo | ok | 21:57 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if the maps are updated, that is, if you delete the cache from MyDocs, if the new maps downloaded are the same as when N900 was released or if they're reasonably current | 21:58 |
| happymonkey | NIN102: yes for nav. I check out Marble | 21:58 |
| Sicelo | ShadowJK: it looks like they aren't :( | 21:59 |
| happymonkey | ShadowJK: I just don't want to think on those questions I would prefer to use software I have a bit more control over, but being curious bad. | 21:59 |
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| ShadowJK | I know if you have mao already on n900 it doesn't check | 22:00 |
| happymonkey | isn't | 22:00 |
| ShadowJK | map* | 22:00 |
| happymonkey | ah | 22:01 |
| Sicelo | hmm, that's interesting ShadowJK. i think i'll try something | 22:01 |
| happymonkey | keep us in suspend Sicelo | 22:01 |
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| ShadowJK | I guess you'd rename cities to cities.bak, then cimpare ovi maps online with browser with ovi maps on phone | 22:03 |
| happymonkey | NIN102: oh that's wonderful it actually has written directions | 22:03 |
| Sicelo | yeah.. that's what i'm doning :) | 22:03 |
| NIN102 | yep, marble is cool stuff. | 22:05 |
| Sicelo | wow ShadowJK! updated :P:P | 22:06 |
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| happymonkey | Sicelo and ShadowJK: why are you so interested in a Nokia product? Is it somehow superior to our open source tools? | 22:06 |
| Sicelo | no happymonkey. i have monav here as well.. | 22:06 |
| SpeedEvil | The datasources. | 22:06 |
| ShadowJK | because according to openstreetmap i live 50km from nearest road | 22:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Google andbing both have extreme restrictions to what you can do with the raster data | 22:07 |
| happymonkey | I guess between Google and Nokia it's all about the same | 22:07 |
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| happymonkey | SpeedEvil: oh really? | 22:07 |
| happymonkey | interesting | 22:07 |
| SpeedEvil | You cannot save (legally) google or bing tiles, ofr use when offline. | 22:07 |
| SpeedEvil | And to save them in thesame detail as nokia mops has the UK in (for example) would take many terabytes. | 22:08 |
| happymonkey | of course not legally, but what is "legal" these days | 22:08 |
| happymonkey | owell | 22:08 |
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| * SpeedEvil fails to find ShadowJK's address, and add some roads round him in openstreetmap. | 22:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer | adding virtual roads? hah | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | real ones | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe you first have to build them ;-D | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Bing has given permission to trace, using their imagery. | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | cya fellas | 22:13 |
| happymonkey | peace | 22:13 |
| * SpeedEvil waves. | 22:13 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer kicks ass of wiki admin :-S | 22:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hardcore spammer user selling malboro | 22:17 |
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| merlin1991 | rofl selling tobbaco on easy debian talk | 22:28 |
| happymonkey | is it Organic? | 22:28 |
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| merlin1991 | it is allegedly cheap | 22:29 |
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| happymonkey | will it make me bigger or reduce my waiste? | 22:30 |
| merlin1991 | I think both | 22:30 |
| merlin1991 | it also cures lungcancer | 22:30 |
| happymonkey | that reminds me I have to reboot my phone by attempting to do an apt-get install -f so I can get texlive up and running on my N900 | 22:32 |
| happymonkey | through Easy Deb. | 22:32 |
| happymonkey | but I'm still downloading the full open street maps for Austin, TX and it's only 40% complete | 22:36 |
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| happymonkey | NIN102: the N900's gps didn't become active when I fired up Marble is there something I need to do to get this started? | 22:41 |
| NIN102 | the button on the bottom of marble on the right, press it. IIRC. | 22:42 |
| happymonkey | lol | 22:42 |
| happymonkey | ok | 22:42 |
| happymonkey | great | 22:43 |
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