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| _David_ | ok, "powertop > output.txt" shows some (stderr?) output but produces zero byte file, "powertop > output.txt 2>&1" puts only that output in the file ie 42 bytes. Still can't capture the useful powertop output | 00:02 |
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| Sleep_Walker | hi | 00:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | _David_: Odd. | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# powertop >po | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ls -l po | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5656 Jan 4 22:03 po | 00:04 |
| _David_ | I'm running powertop from a just-flashed N900, no patches | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | this is a I think 1.2, that was OTA | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I can't imagine it'd bedifferent though | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Does powertop show normakly? | 00:05 |
| _David_ | yes | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | do the same with ls | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | see if you can pipe from that | 00:05 |
| Sicelo | also works for me | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | check for disk full | 00:05 |
| Sleep_Walker | simple and maybe quite often question - how hard is to run maemo on android phone (DesireZ)? are there such attempts? is there some wiki covering status of such attempt? | 00:05 |
| _David_ | disk should be almost empty, where do you get 1.2? | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Sleep_Walker: Impossible. | 00:06 |
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| Sicelo | Sleep_Walker: nope | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Sleep_Walker: Well - impossible may be strong. | 00:06 |
| Sicelo | um, sorry SpeedEvil :s | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Sleep_Walker: But it's at least man-years of effort. | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | And illegal. | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - violating licence agreements on distributed software. | 00:06 |
| plate | signed boot-loaders, etc | 00:07 |
| _David_ | can pipe ls -l fine | 00:07 |
| Sleep_Walker | SpeedEvil: ad license issues - I don't care much, I'm not in US | 00:07 |
| plate | realistically, buying a N900 or some device Mer runs on is your best bet | 00:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sleep_Walker: Inmost of theworld, it's not legal to do. | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's years of effort. | 00:07 |
| Sleep_Walker | yup - man-years, that's the reason I ask about others... :) | 00:08 |
| Sleep_Walker | what is so different? provided kernel interface? | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Most of the core software is closed. | 00:09 |
| plate | android kernel won't work, its significantly diverged from vanilla | 00:09 |
| plate | and once you use that, your hardware wont be supporte | 00:09 |
| _David_ | looks like my version is built for PR 1.0 http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/ | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | You need to do carying stuff from reimplimenting core daemons, on up, if you want to get it to work | 00:10 |
| guampa | hello, trying to get to root console from backupmenu, but when i enter the password for root and press enter i get the menu again, any ideas? | 00:10 |
| Sleep_Walker | SpeedEvil: core software of maemo? | 00:10 |
| Sleep_Walker | I thought it's opensource... | 00:10 |
| plate | some of it | 00:10 |
| _David_ | will get 1.2, probably it will show no issues now... thanks for help, will bbl | 00:10 |
| guampa | need to do a full fsck on MyDocs, easy debian installation failed and left the fs ill | 00:10 |
| plate | and even if MAemo was 100% opensores, youre still stuck on kernel-vanilla/driver prob | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# md5sum /sbin/powertop | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | c5e6aff4985fdf0acf5e5a410504f895 /sbin/powertop | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Sleep_Walker: Bits of it are opensource. | 00:11 |
| Sicelo | _David_: i'm on 1.3 | 00:11 |
| Sleep_Walker | hum | 00:11 |
| Sicelo | no.. sorry, 1.1e.3 | 00:11 |
| Sicelo | s/1e/1/ | 00:12 |
| infobot | Sicelo meant: no.. sorry, 1.1.3 | 00:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Sleep_Walker: I've said before that maemo openness has been carefully designed and engineered to allow 'the community' to write games, and minor patches to some system aspects. But to preclude anythingtoo ambitious. | 00:12 |
| SpeedEvil | And mean that any software written will not be trivially portable to other platforms. | 00:12 |
| Sleep_Walker | that's sad :/ | 00:12 |
| Sleep_Walker | thanks for your answers | 00:13 |
| plate | but, Maemo has Xorg | 00:13 |
| plate | you can really compile/run whatever you want a lot easier than on Android | 00:13 |
| plate | which doenst even have a libc youd expect | 00:13 |
| plate | let alone a normal kernel or X server | 00:13 |
| Sleep_Walker | I'll try some debian instead | 00:14 |
| plate | thats nice, until you want to use your GSM/GPS hardware | 00:14 |
| plate | so you have a really pricey wifi tablet | 00:14 |
| plate | plus, Illume is kinda primitive compared to Hildon/Matchbox/GTK stuff on maemo imo | 00:14 |
| Sleep_Walker | I already have some experiences with Palm smartphones | 00:14 |
| Sleep_Walker | GSM is pain | 00:15 |
| Sleep_Walker | I'm at the phase of collecting information about HW | 00:15 |
| Sleep_Walker | I miss some linux distro for mobile phones | 00:15 |
| plate | you can see what hw #mer people are terying to get maemo/meego sw-legacy running on | 00:16 |
| Sleep_Walker | plate: Illume is maybe primitive but it was quite enough for me | 00:16 |
| plate | none of it is fully-open, the cordia-Tab project has been futile so far | 00:16 |
| plate | yeah | 00:16 |
| plate | a ton of little thinsg | 00:16 |
| plate | like Terminal in maemo's tab/pageup/esc buttons | 00:16 |
| Sleep_Walker | yup | 00:16 |
| plate | you can actually use Vi and stuff in a pinch | 00:16 |
| plate | xterm on e17 was a pita in co mparison | 00:17 |
| Sleep_Walker | :)) | 00:17 |
| Sleep_Walker | I used my own X keyboard mappings so it was bearable | 00:17 |
| plate | its really amazing how many little touches are right in Maemo so its a shame NOKIA is so idiotic | 00:17 |
| plate | so many people in Finland / northern-europe obviously "Get it" re open-source, and have QT/GTK skill | 00:18 |
| plate | too bad management is out on a date with MSFT | 00:18 |
| Sleep_Walker | I was quite surprised that one month they released N950(?) and next month they welcome Windows... | 00:18 |
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| Sleep_Walker | too bad I didn't get one | 00:19 |
| Sleep_Walker | there is so many linux mobile initiatives and all sucks | 00:20 |
| plate | Illume is best bet imo | 00:20 |
| plate | make sure your hw can at least run debian.. | 00:21 |
| Sleep_Walker | I'm fan of E17 anyway and involved a bit in that project | 00:21 |
| Sleep_Walker | debian is no problem | 00:21 |
| Sleep_Walker | problem as you already said is controling devices | 00:22 |
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| Sleep_Walker | thanks for info and good luck with maemo | 00:22 |
| plate | bricked mine again | 00:22 |
| plate | i think my bind-mount of /var is screwing it up, 5-dots progress bar actually stops, instead of rebooting tho | 00:23 |
| plate | got a single ext3 on emmc 32G that i'm too lazy to repartition back to what Maemo expects | 00:23 |
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| plate | removing the 'generate/clobber /etc/fstab' lines in /etc/event.d/rcS-late works though... | 00:23 |
| plate | i think its cuz /var/run is mounted and then becomes invisible when var is bindmounted, linux switched to /run recently | 00:24 |
| plate | so now i'm neck deep in RC scripts, beacuse maemo decided to ship on a device with a 256 mb / | 00:24 |
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| plate | should i fix the OS to be bootable again, compile the latest u-boot branch so that i can try putting / right on emmc 32gb, or leave it on teh table with back off and battery out. the choice is easy | 00:28 |
| plate | n900's flash really is slow. compiling / untarring stuff on a jb'd iPAd is so much faster | 00:29 |
| plate | saurik is a badman. if you're willing to jb and use HTML5/Safari only for UIs, iOS is becoming more of a compelling option | 00:30 |
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| kerio | at this point i'm just waiting for the droid 4, hoping it doesn't have a locked bootloader | 00:39 |
| kerio | the droid 3 is locked :( | 00:39 |
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| wmarone__ | it's motorola | 00:43 |
| wmarone__ | it'll be locked and they'll give some snarky response on why they refuse to offer an unlock | 00:43 |
| kerio | but they promised they'd make their future bootloaders unlocked! | 00:46 |
| kerio | :8 | 00:47 |
| kerio | i wouldn't touch that motocrap with a 10 foot pole, but no other company is actually making an android phone with a physical keyboard | 00:47 |
| tank-man | relevant img :) http://mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/moto-poll.jpg | 00:48 |
| kerio | i mean, the droid 3 can be rooted | 00:49 |
| kerio | but it still doesn't feel right :( | 00:49 |
| kerio | hmm, the htc desire Z doesn't look bad | 00:51 |
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| plate | does it run Debian? | 00:55 |
| plate | i'll proably ust buy another n900 if mine breaks | 00:55 |
| plate | its down to 1/3 original retail price NIB | 00:55 |
| Wizzup | How much is it now? | 00:55 |
| kerio | as of now, my choice after mine breaks is another n900 | 00:56 |
| plate | my definition of "open" includes open to possibilities | 00:56 |
| plate | android is prety much in last place. yay quasi-java | 00:56 |
| kerio | plate: yeah ._. | 00:56 |
| kerio | but the n900 feels really old | 00:57 |
| kerio | it's mostly the ram | 00:57 |
| plate | spiral-zoom is pretty nutty too | 00:57 |
| kerio | who uses that? | 00:57 |
| kerio | double-tap to zoom | 00:57 |
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| plate | i use the buttons | 00:57 |
| kerio | or the volume keys | 00:57 |
| kerio | multitouch is crap anyway | 00:57 |
| kerio | i like my x11 with only one pointer :) | 00:57 |
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| kerio | i'd totally buy a n900 with 1gb of ram | 00:58 |
| kerio | and no optification | 00:58 |
| plate | yup | 00:58 |
| plate | did N950 have more RAM | 00:58 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: build me a n900 with 1gb of ram | 00:58 |
| plate | cant they just do a run of say, 100K of those | 00:58 |
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| kerio | plate: i'm actually really bummed that they haven't done a retail run of n950s | 00:58 |
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| kerio | plate: the alternative is an openpandora with a MiFi | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | plate: dm8tbr convinced me Nokia is too big to be able to do that | 01:00 |
| kerio | i wonder how a usb modem would fit on an openpandora | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: aye Sir - will need ~USD 10k | 01:00 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: woah, 1GB of ram is that expensive? :o | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, but 10 times RAM and 10 N900 in perfect condition, plus labour... | 01:01 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: i meant "take an actual retail N900, unsolder the RAM and solder a bigger RAM on it" | 01:01 |
| kerio | why do you need 10? | 01:02 |
| kerio | i only need one! | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: that'S exactly what I offered to do, and I assumed I'm good on that and only will need 9 to practice | 01:02 |
| kerio | oh, i see | 01:02 |
| kerio | :D | 01:02 |
| kerio | would i be able to keep the n900s that survive the practice? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | none will survive, except that last golden one where everything worked | 01:03 |
| kerio | ._. | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe not even I will survive that ;-P | 01:03 |
| kerio | i'm sure the ones before will magically "break" | 01:03 |
| kerio | even if nothing went wrong | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll just see defects that are hard to fix on doing same procedure once more to them | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | soldering large BGA, even PoP, isn't exactly simple. Needs quite some luck to get any of the first dozen right | 01:05 |
| kerio | ok :( | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | then I'll probably have to sloughter other high priced devices to get a hold on the needed chips | 01:06 |
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| merlin1991 | me always wonders how the fuck those chips get soldered on | 01:06 |
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| kerio | does this mean that i have to buy a desire z or a milestone 3? :( | 01:06 |
| kerio | i really like maemo | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: "very simple" - just reflow solder them | 01:07 |
| javispedro | I do know some people that is potentially "good" doing this | 01:07 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: what does that mean? | 01:07 |
| javispedro | *are | 01:07 |
| javispedro | but I am quite sure they'd ask for a few N900s at least | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | means "heat up the whole board to the temperature where the solder paste stamped thru' a stencil will melt and solder the chip in place | 01:08 |
| javispedro | plus, I do not even know where I'd source pin compatible PoP with larger RAM | 01:08 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: cool, let's do that! :D | 01:08 |
| kerio | i'm sure you have all the necessary equipment | 01:08 |
| merlin1991 | just supply the 10k kerio ;) | 01:08 |
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| kerio | will 10k yen be enough? | 01:09 |
| merlin1991 | I fear not | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure not, probably not even USD | 01:10 |
| * merlin1991 needs to finally catch a decent n900 on ebay | 01:10 | |
| DocScrutinizer | might need 10k GBP | 01:10 |
| merlin1991 | got 2 but one has a completely borked modem, and the other one is about to give in | 01:10 |
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| merlin1991 | ~info | 01:19 |
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| FIQ | so I have the uboot bootloader, and an uImage in /boot on my mmc... now I just need to figure out how to use it | 11:56 |
| FIQ | wasn't as trivial as a "run mmcboot" from the uboot prompt anyway D: | 11:56 |
| FIQ | anyone willing to help, or do I need to figure it out by myself? | 11:56 |
| r00t|home | nobody awake, and not something can help with, sorry | 12:02 |
| r00t|home | consider that it's middle of the night in the us | 12:02 |
| FIQ | heh, ok | 12:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | depends on your uBoot(-config) | 12:10 |
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| FIQ | atm the u-boot is in its' vanilla state (the state provided by uboot-pr13). I have an uImage on /boot @ MMC (/dev/mmcblk1p1). I'm reading up on how u-boot works at the moment, but it seems pretty lowlevel | 12:16 |
| FIQ | (i.e. a bit hard for me to understand) | 12:17 |
| FIQ | the MMC is formatted as an ext3 partition | 12:18 |
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| burr | i cant boot debian to save my life | 12:23 |
| burr | i get silly errors like /dev/mmcblk0p1: unable to mount root fs. list of fs... /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 12:23 |
| burr | with the 2.6.37 in rescueOS and root=/dev/mmcblk0pp1 | 12:24 |
| burr | and u-boot errors are even worse and sooner | 12:24 |
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| burr | 2 years ago i booted debian with absolutely no hassles using bootmenu | 12:24 |
| burr | now that is broken too | 12:24 |
| trist4n | this is a ridiculous question, but i am stuck. do you think i could use my n900 as a boot medium to install windows. | 12:24 |
| trist4n | i have literally no other storage. | 12:24 |
| burr | as usb-storage i think so | 12:24 |
| trist4n | im not sure how i should partition this really | 12:25 |
| burr | its 1000x easier to put Paludis, Portage, Pacman, or debootstrap on a USB storage and install linux | 12:25 |
| FIQ | does it fit? | 12:25 |
| trist4n | its only a 3.2gb iso | 12:25 |
| FIQ | @ trist4n | 12:25 |
| FIQ | ah | 12:25 |
| FIQ | should work then... allbeit slow | 12:26 |
| trist4n | could i uh | 12:26 |
| trist4n | hm | 12:26 |
| FIQ | i guess | 12:26 |
| trist4n | use my /home/user/MyDocs partition | 12:26 |
| trist4n | and just restore it later | 12:26 |
| burr | all sorts of MBR / NTLDR / bootmgr voodoo has to be exactly correct | 12:26 |
| trist4n | its that or install windows 7 over tftp and a crossover cable, maybe that would be better. | 12:26 |
| burr | even down to arbitrary start offsets of partitions etc | 12:27 |
| burr | theres windows utilities that set up USB storage to boot windows | 12:27 |
| burr | and a few shell scripts | 12:27 |
| burr | i really wouldnt bother unless you find one of those utils | 12:27 |
| trist4n | mmm. | 12:27 |
| trist4n | maybe the tftp would be the way to go | 12:27 |
| burr | BartPE or so | 12:27 |
| burr | and then moutn your install media over samba | 12:28 |
| burr | that works, if you acn get bartpe booting from n900's mass-storage | 12:28 |
| burr | only needs 256mb or so | 12:28 |
| trist4n | yeah thats the million dollar question ey. | 12:28 |
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| trist4n | hmm i might have an old usnb that would fit bartpe on it | 12:29 |
| burr | ive only ever installed windows off USB-storage | 12:29 |
| burr | its a pita, but doable | 12:29 |
| trist4n | yeah ive had to do it before as well | 12:29 |
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| burr | one time i had to 'recovery shell' XCOPY the install files to HD from USB | 12:29 |
| burr | cuz it was too dumb to see the HD when USB was plugged in | 12:29 |
| trist4n | on holidays trying to setup someones netbook, unfortunately i dont have a usb that can hold it | 12:29 |
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| burr | FIQ: which u-boot do you have? http://gitorious.org/u-boot-shr/u-boot hopefully | 12:30 |
| burr | ive gotten the furthest with that one, but still errors once kernel is going heh | 12:31 |
| burr | complicating this is initfs!=initrd i think | 12:31 |
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| burr | all this one-off crap... NOLO.. FIASCO | 12:31 |
| burr | add in a bzip2'd squashfs on a ramdisk and blahblah.. why is it not simple like installing linux on x86 heh | 12:32 |
| burr | im about to just give up and go buy an ANdroid device | 12:32 |
| burr | maemo keeps shitting itself.. | 12:32 |
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| burr | even after fresh reflash, apps will start losing their settings after a while etc. im wondering if maybe ive got bad flash blocks | 12:33 |
| burr | i mean, its ext2 not jffs2 but i guess the hw has block-masking, if its any decent (perhaps why its so slow?) | 12:33 |
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| burr | im crazy enough to have written my own email-client, news-aggregator, spreadsheet/log slicing-dicing tools etc, but the reality is theyre haskell & ruby code with a browser UI, and at least the ruby part runs perfectly on iOS | 12:35 |
| burr | so theres really no reason to be a slave to this abandoned stuff anymore | 12:35 |
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| burr | so.. yeah. nokia device.. never again | 12:36 |
| burr | cya | 12:36 |
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| FIQ | hmm, fun | 12:47 |
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| FIQ | seems I want mmcinit; ext3load mmc 0:1 0x800000 /boot/uImage (the 0x800000 might be able to be something else) | 12:48 |
| FIQ | the only problem: 'mmcinit' not found, try 'help' | 12:48 |
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| FIQ | (the same with ext3load, but there's ext2load) | 12:48 |
| FIQ | if I ignore mmcboot and use ext2load, it ends up outputting "Bad partition 0:1" (and i know it's fully functional) | 12:50 |
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| vallhalla | Good day all | 12:57 |
| kerio | burr: :( | 12:59 |
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| vallhalla | kerio: why the sad face? | 13:17 |
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| fredddd | I am having an SSL error issue with Jabber inside Maemo. | 14:29 |
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| fredddd | I have setup my own ejabberd server with a valid certificate from a trusted authority. On my desktop client Gajim, everything goes fine, and it connects without any SSL warning (or having any option ticked to ignore them). | 14:29 |
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| fredddd | While on Maemo Jabber, I can not connect unless I keep "ignore SSL errors" ticked. =/ | 14:29 |
| fredddd | Would anyone be able to help me with this? | 14:30 |
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| chem|st | fredddd: you might need to install the servers certificate to get it working that way | 14:33 |
| fredddd | Hm, but they should be in the certificate repository, no? | 14:33 |
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| chem|st | who | 14:33 |
| chem|st | self signed certs without signed root cert is common | 14:34 |
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| fredddd | It is not self signed. | 14:34 |
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| fredddd | It is a COMODO certificate. | 14:34 |
| fredddd | I did not create it myself, I got it from a trusted certificate authority, I was hoping Maemo would pick up on those. | 14:35 |
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| fredddd | If I figure out the openssl command to test the connection, I could indicate if it is a mistake on my side or if it is a software fault. | 14:36 |
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| fredddd | At first sight, it seems to be a mistake on my side. | 14:41 |
| fredddd | Will fix and report how it went. | 14:41 |
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| fredddd | chem|st, I am not sure. | 14:52 |
| fredddd | CONNECTED(00000003) | 14:53 |
| fredddd | 2135:error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol:s23_clnt.c:607: | 14:53 |
| fredddd | My desktop client connects without issues, no SSL error or warning. | 14:53 |
| fredddd | Looking up what that SSL error means with ejabberd, it seemed like software incompatibility with OpenSSL or something, not sure, I think I am a bit too much of a newbie to conclude. D: | 14:53 |
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| hhartz | has anyone experienced processes still being alive after closing in recents view on N9? | 14:55 |
| fredddd | Wait, what? | 14:56 |
| fredddd | Are you asking for N9 help in here? D: | 14:56 |
| hhartz | hehe, faux pas | 14:58 |
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| bindi | hey | 15:56 |
| bindi | i took my n900 to nokia care - they were hesitant to take it in.. and said that they don't cover the white spots that many people do | 15:56 |
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| bindi | "no official notice about white spots and replacing/fixing units has been given" or something | 15:57 |
| bindi | after 10 mins they took it in and promised to replace the screen | 15:57 |
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| edheldil | bindi: what white spots? I have noticeable lighter spots on display when it's white, but they're not not obtrusive enough to do anything about it | 16:03 |
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| Sicelo | ~otoh | 16:09 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, otoh is On The Other Hand. It's YAFA. | 16:09 |
| Sicelo | -yafa | 16:10 |
| Sicelo | ~yafa | 16:10 |
| infobot | i guess yafa is Yet Another Freakin Acronym. | 16:10 |
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| bindi | edheldil: those exactly | 16:14 |
| bindi | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=956232&postcount=171 | 16:14 |
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| Raimu | Nokia Care would probably just give you a new cellphone from a different line if the white specks (that I also have) were an issue, anyway. | 16:20 |
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| bindi | right well | 16:21 |
| bindi | it is an issue :P | 16:21 |
| bindi | your phone isnt supposed to have white spots on the screen | 16:21 |
| bindi | "I had the dual bright spots. Nokia Care Point replaced the whole unit." | 16:23 |
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| jani | bindi: lucky sob.. i took mine for repairs got e7 back =) | 16:27 |
| bindi | i asked them am i to expect a repaired n900 or an e7 | 16:27 |
| bindi | they said they'll replace the screen, which will take time | 16:27 |
| bindi | and apparently, the spots will just come back | 16:27 |
| bindi | so i'll take it back as soon as that happens | 16:27 |
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| bindi | jani: do you happen to have a receipt for that operation? :P | 16:30 |
| bindi | she really didnt believe that many n900s have this problem and insisted that it's water damage | 16:30 |
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| mueddib | hello | 18:29 |
| penguinbait | howdy | 18:30 |
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| netadmin | sorry, I have a question | 18:45 |
| netadmin | where is the maemo flasher 3.5 debian installed package? | 18:45 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/05/nokia-will-sell-crown-jewels-to-microsoft/ | 18:55 |
| beford | !flash | 18:57 |
| beford | ~flash | 18:57 |
| infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 18:57 |
| merlin1991 | netadmin: in case you heaven't found it already: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php | 18:58 |
| netadmin | merlin1991, thank you I installed | 18:58 |
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| Pali | ping X-Fade | 19:07 |
| fredddd | Does anyone know if it is possible to properly connect with Maemo's Jabber with no SSL errors through STARTTLS? | 19:07 |
| Pali | ~seen X-Fade | 19:07 |
| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 117 messages. Is idling for 3h 45m 26s, last said: 'lunch, brb'. | 19:07 |
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| fredddd | I have setup my own ejabberd server with a valid certificate, and I can not connect to it through Maemo's default Jabber client without having "Ignore SSL Errors" ticked. | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | Pali, this lunch reminds me of hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. I wish it was funny. | 19:09 |
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| netadmin | sorry, I have a question | 19:09 |
| netadmin | How can I root maemo 5? | 19:09 |
| netadmin | I using Nokia N900 | 19:10 |
| fredddd | There is an application for it in the repository I believe. | 19:10 |
| fredddd | To enable it. | 19:10 |
| fredddd | The Maemo wiki has a page on it as well, I think. | 19:10 |
| netadmin | what is application name? | 19:10 |
| netadmin | okay I checked | 19:10 |
| fredddd | http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | rootsh | 19:10 |
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| edheldil | fredddd: I think I have the same problem. Could it be due to an unknown CA? | 19:15 |
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| fredddd | edheldil, the certificate is fine, generated by a trusted authority. | 19:17 |
| netadmin | fredddd, ok thanks I installed | 19:17 |
| netadmin | :) | 19:17 |
| fredddd | The certificate is also running at http://expressionate.org | 19:17 |
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| fredddd | Visiting the website on Maemo browser gives no sign of an invalid certificate either. | 19:18 |
| fredddd | I think Maemo's Jabber is incompatible with XMPP STARTTLS wise. | 19:18 |
| fredddd | I enabled the old SSL method at port 5223 and verified with OpenSSL and there were no errors. | 19:18 |
| Robot101 | ?! no, starttls works fine | 19:18 |
| fredddd | So I am considering everything is fine on my side, as Gajim (desktop client) connects fine without any SSL errors. | 19:18 |
| fredddd | On Maemo's Jabber client? | 19:19 |
| Robot101 | yes | 19:19 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, can you connect with Jabber to your XMPP network, having "Ignore SSL errors" unticked? | 19:19 |
| fredddd | I can connect as long as that is ticked. | 19:19 |
| edheldil | do you have 'old certificate' ticket? No idea what's that | 19:19 |
| edheldil | ticked | 19:19 |
| fredddd | What do you mean? | 19:20 |
| fredddd | Old certificate ticked? | 19:20 |
| edheldil | There are checkboxes for 'Require encryption', 'Use old SSL cert', 'Ignore SSL cert errors' ... | 19:23 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: does your certificate belong to expressionate.org or xmpp.expressionate.org? | 19:24 |
| Robot101 | openssl s_client is being a dick so I can't check atm | 19:24 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, all of them. | 19:30 |
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| fredddd | The certificate covers all subdomains. | 19:30 |
| Robot101 | does it cover expressionate.org itself though? | 19:30 |
| fredddd | Yes. | 19:30 |
| fredddd | The initial domain and the sub domains, one certificate for everything. | 19:30 |
| edheldil | well, the short name is in SubjAltName, though - maybe Maemo's jabber is stupid? | 19:33 |
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| Robot101 | I can't remember which version of telepathy is running on the N900 | 19:34 |
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| fredddd | x.x | 19:34 |
| Robot101 | dpkg -l telepathy-gabble ? | 19:34 |
| fredddd | Apparently an out-dated noe. | 19:34 |
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| fredddd | one* | 19:34 |
| fredddd | I do not believe a lot gets updated on Maemo. | 19:34 |
| Robot101 | well obviously it's old, but I want to look at the corresponding source :) | 19:34 |
| fredddd | I have only seen libraries get updated with CSSU, really. =/ | 19:34 |
| fredddd | It seems to have broken at PR1.2, having people to click Ignore SSL Errors, when trying to look for a solution myself online. | 19:35 |
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| Robot101 | really? hrm | 19:36 |
| Robot101 | http://cgit.freedesktop.org/telepathy/telepathy-gabble/log/?h=telepathy-gabble-0.8 | 19:36 |
| Robot101 | the 0.8 branch was for Maemo | 19:36 |
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| netadmin | maemo updated 2011.38-1 | 19:41 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: hrm, the SSL code is inside loudmouth on the N900 | 19:41 |
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| Robot101 | er how do you get the actual source? | 19:44 |
| Robot101 | I'm going round in circles on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/libloudmouth1-0/1.4.1-0osso10+0m5/ | 19:44 |
| edheldil | package source? apt-get source or st. like that | 19:45 |
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| Robot101 | yeah I've not had any working scratchbox configured for maemo for years | 19:45 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, keep me updated with your progress and findings. | 19:56 |
| Robot101 | I've kinda stalled | 19:57 |
| Robot101 | I wanted to find the maemo patches to loudmouth which add OpenSSL support | 19:57 |
| Robot101 | that code is maemo-specific and untested outside of maemo, even though the XMPP stack is widely used elsewhere | 19:57 |
| Robot101 | it's entirely possible that just doesn't test SubjAltName | 19:58 |
| Robot101 | either a bug in that lm+OpenSSL code or a bug in Maemo's OpenSSL patches | 19:58 |
| merlin1991 | Robot101: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_sdk_free_source/loudmouth/1.4.1-0osso10+0m5/ | 19:59 |
| merlin1991 | there's your source | 19:59 |
| edheldil | pm me if you find st. interesting. Bye ... | 19:59 |
| merlin1991 | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/l/loudmouth/ | 19:59 |
| Robot101 | yeah so just inspecting trivially, it only gets the common name there | 20:00 |
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| Robot101 | so that's why it doesn't work | 20:02 |
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| Robot101 | if you override the server name, put manually, xmpp.expressionate.org, then it won't do a SRV lookup, but the certificate should match | 20:03 |
| Robot101 | that's my best guess at a workaround | 20:03 |
| Robot101 | sorry :/ | 20:03 |
| netadmin | I don't installed rootsh :( | 20:04 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: ^^ | 20:04 |
| Robot101 | edheldil: do you also have a cert with SubjAltName | 20:04 |
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| netadmin | enable rd mode if you want to break your device | 20:06 |
| netadmin | what is RD mode enabled? | 20:06 |
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| merlin1991 | you can use flasher to enable R&D mode | 20:10 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, going to try. | 20:11 |
| fredddd | But it would be weird, as the certificate applies for *.expressionate.org (thus anything, and nothing, too, normally). | 20:11 |
| NIN101 | somebody who asks what R&D mode is shouldn't enable it few minutes after he asked that question. | 20:11 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: yes, so xmpp.expressionate.org should match it | 20:11 |
| merlin1991 | NIN101: agreed :D | 20:11 |
| NIN101 | but http://wiki.maemo.org/R%26D_mode | 20:11 |
| fredddd | xmpp.expressionate.org is nothing but a CNAME to the A / AAAA record acantha.expressionate.org (the actual server). | 20:11 |
| Robot101 | *.foo doesn't match foo in these contexts | 20:11 |
| fredddd | And the SRV records for XMPP client and server point to xmpp.expressionate.org, is this why? | 20:12 |
| Robot101 | actually I didn't quite stay to understand the code but you can read it fairly easily in lm-ssl-openssl.c | 20:12 |
| * fredddd crosses fingers | 20:12 | |
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| Robot101 | maybe this wildcard code is just broken | 20:17 |
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| netadmin | hey, maemo extras repository is not running? | 20:26 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, no luck setting xmpp.expressionate.org. | 20:29 |
| fredddd | It would be helpful if I could look up the SSL error that is actually blocking it from connecting. | 20:29 |
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| merlin1991 | netadmin: it is running | 20:43 |
| netadmin | fredddd, I installed openssh-client and openssh-server | 20:43 |
| netadmin | merlin1991, yes I running! but i install openssh-client and openssh-server | 20:43 |
| netadmin | my ip adresses is 172.16.1.2 nokia n900 ip 172.16.1.9 | 20:43 |
| netadmin | I'm not ping nokia n900 | 20:44 |
| netadmin | what is problem? you think? | 20:44 |
| fredddd | What do you mean? | 20:44 |
| netadmin | I'm not connect to ssh. | 20:44 |
| fredddd | Oh I thought this was related to the Maemo's Jabber SSL error thing. | 20:45 |
| netadmin | fredddd, I installed openssh-client and server on the Maemo (N900) | 20:45 |
| fredddd | Ah. | 20:45 |
| netadmin | I using laptop, my laptop ip is 172.16.1.2 | 20:45 |
| netadmin | n900 ip is 172.16.1.9 | 20:45 |
| netadmin | I'm not ping n900 and not connect to ssh :( | 20:45 |
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| netadmin | what is your using tablet model? | 20:46 |
| fredddd | You can open the terminal and do things in there. | 20:46 |
| netadmin | do you connect to tablet on the ssh ports? | 20:46 |
| fredddd | Unless you prefer to do mobile phone operations from your desktop. | 20:46 |
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| fredddd | I do not SSH at all. | 20:46 |
| fredddd | To my phone. | 20:46 |
| netadmin | ok | 20:46 |
| fredddd | I have little need for advanced terminal operations on my N900. | 20:46 |
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| fredddd | I just use it for XMPP, email, calendar, contacts and considering RSS if I can make it pleasant. | 20:47 |
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| netadmin | fredddd, okay I understand but why not connect to ssh n900? | 20:47 |
| Sicelo | netadmin: u use wifi or what? | 20:48 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, yes I using Wifi | 20:48 |
| netadmin | N900 connect wifi | 20:48 |
| netadmin | my laptop connect ewifi | 20:48 |
| netadmin | both of which received ip address, not problem | 20:48 |
| fredddd | My nommy N900 desktop: http://ompldr.org/vYjU2Yg/fredwp-rawr-mobile-device.png | 20:48 |
| Sicelo | u have an access point or using Ad-Hoc? | 20:49 |
| fredddd | netadmin, no need for it. | 20:49 |
| fredddd | If I want to SSH to anything I will SSH to my servers. =p | 20:49 |
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| netadmin | Sicelo, hm my modem is ad-hoc :) | 20:50 |
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| Sicelo | modem? :P | 20:50 |
| netadmin | N900 and my laptop connect to wifi modem :) wifi modem serve DHCP | 20:51 |
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| netadmin | yes internet modem + router | 20:51 |
| netadmin | modem ip add is 172.16.1.1 | 20:51 |
| Sicelo | anyway, paste 'ifconfig wlan0' from n900 . and also from your laptop | 20:51 |
| Sicelo | don't paste here btw :) | 20:52 |
| netadmin | I ping modem | 20:52 |
| netadmin | # ping 172.16.1.1 | 20:52 |
| netadmin | PING 172.16.1.1 (172.16.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. | 20:52 |
| netadmin | 64 bytes from 172.16.1.1: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=2.38 ms | 20:52 |
| netadmin | 64 bytes from 172.16.1.1: icmp_req=2 ttl=64 time=1.81 ms | 20:52 |
| netadmin | yes yes I checked | 20:52 |
| netadmin | wait | 20:52 |
| Sicelo | u were pinging from n900? | 20:53 |
| netadmin | this is my laptop: | 20:53 |
| netadmin | # ifconfig wlan0 | 20:53 |
| netadmin | wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:22:5f:1d:de:0e | 20:53 |
| netadmin | inet addr:172.16.1.10 | 20:53 |
| netadmin | and | 20:53 |
| netadmin | this is N900 | 20:53 |
| netadmin | # ifconfig wlan0 | 20:53 |
| netadmin | wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:22:5f:1d:de:0e | 20:53 |
| netadmin | inet addr:172.16.1.9 | 20:53 |
| netadmin | N900 not pinging 172.16.1.1 :( | 20:54 |
| netadmin | ah no | 20:54 |
| netadmin | pinging! | 20:54 |
| fredddd | Robot101, any luck with SSL or did you give up? :3 | 20:54 |
| Sicelo | lol netadmin | 20:55 |
| fredddd | The xmpp.expressionate.org server pointing did not work, even rebooted my device in attempt for it to automatically work after reboot, it did not. | 20:55 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, N900 pinging modem (172.16.1.1) and not ping my laptop (172.16.1.10) | 20:55 |
| netadmin | I checked modem? | 20:56 |
| netadmin | # ping 172.16.1.9 | 20:56 |
| netadmin | PING 172.16.1.9 (172.16.1.9) 56(84) bytes of data. | 20:56 |
| netadmin | From 172.16.1.10 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable | 20:56 |
| netadmin | From 172.16.1.10 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable | 20:56 |
| netadmin | my laptop not ping N900, I dislike :( | 20:57 |
| Sicelo | netadmin: dont paste this stuff here. Please | 20:57 |
| netadmin | ah okay, sorry I using pastebin. sorry: | 20:57 |
| Sicelo | :) | 20:58 |
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| Sicelo | so, n900 pings your 'modem', laptop pings 'modem', but they can't ping one another, right? | 20:58 |
| netadmin | yes | 21:00 |
| netadmin | n900 not ping laptop and laptop not ping n900 :( | 21:00 |
| netadmin | and I not ssh connection laptop -> n900 | 21:00 |
| OkropNick | netadmin: the same MAC address on both machines? | 21:01 |
| netadmin | OkropNick, I checked and no. | 21:01 |
| netadmin | I checked arp tables | 21:01 |
| netadmin | ah | 21:02 |
| netadmin | this is problem: | 21:02 |
| netadmin | # arp -a | grep 9 | 21:02 |
| netadmin | ? (172.16.3.9) at <incomplete> on wlan0 | 21:02 |
| netadmin | MAC is incomplete hmm | 21:02 |
| Sicelo | how did u bring up N900 wifi? | 21:03 |
| netadmin | Maemo not support "arp" command? | 21:03 |
| OkropNick | I'm not good in net configuration, but it was just strange for me | 21:03 |
| Sicelo | me too OkropNick :) | 21:04 |
| netadmin | N900 connected Wifi and connect internet :) | 21:04 |
| netadmin | not problem I addedd extras repos install rootsh, openssh client and server package. | 21:04 |
| netadmin | I checked | 21:04 |
| netadmin | wait thanks for all help friend, good night. | 21:04 |
| Sicelo | lol | 21:04 |
| netadmin | Settings -> Internet Connections | 21:05 |
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| netadmin | connect wi-fi search interval never | 21:05 |
| netadmin | Maemo don't support arp command? | 21:06 |
| Sicelo | netadmin: i suspect your modem configuration. | 21:06 |
| Sicelo | yes.. no arp by default | 21:06 |
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| netadmin | arp package have to extras repos? | 21:07 |
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| Sicelo | i don't see it there either, nor in devel :/ | 21:07 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, okay I checked modem but N900 not send MAC adresses using "ARP" protocols. | 21:07 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, do you using N900? | 21:09 |
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| Sicelo | yes | 21:09 |
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| netadmin | ok using computer/laptop? :) | 21:10 |
| MrOpposite | hi | 21:10 |
| netadmin | do you connect ssh N900 Sicelo? | 21:10 |
| netadmin | MrOpposite, hello, good night: | 21:10 |
| MrOpposite | I made a mistake when toying around with multiboot, I installed a new kernel, and forgot to edit my .item file | 21:10 |
| Sicelo | yup netadmin. i do that at time | 21:10 |
| MrOpposite | so now my n900 doesn't boot due to "Can't flash kernel" | 21:11 |
| MrOpposite | How do I bypass multiboot? | 21:11 |
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| Sicelo | netadmin: sometimes issue can be WLAN Power Saving.. switch that off for now.. until your connection works | 21:11 |
| MrOpposite | or atleast gain access to the .item-file so I can change it | 21:11 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, please run arp -a command laptop and computer? | 21:11 |
| netadmin | please connect ssh computer-> N900 and run arp -a command computer? | 21:12 |
| netadmin | where is the wlan power saving menu? I checked | 21:12 |
| Sicelo | MrOpposite: multiboot is fsckd | 21:12 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, your N900 "designed in finland"? | 21:12 |
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| Sicelo | netadmin: all N900 are | 21:13 |
| netadmin | hmm, "made in korean"? :) | 21:14 |
| netadmin | false news? | 21:14 |
| Sicelo | there are fakes | 21:15 |
| netadmin | ok I understand | 21:15 |
| netadmin | do you connect ssh N900? | 21:15 |
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| netadmin | # arp | 21:16 |
| netadmin | Address HWtype HWaddress Flags Mask Iface | 21:16 |
| netadmin | 172.16.1.1 ether 00:22:65:51:37:27 C wlan0 | 21:16 |
| netadmin | 172.16.1.9 (incomplete) wlan0 | 21:16 |
| netadmin | this is problem: N900 not send MAC adress my laptop, N900 not support ARP? | 21:16 |
| netadmin | I checked windows, wait. | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dang this battery indicator is pure crap | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | when it gets red, there's no area left to see the red | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and no decent info in menu either | 21:21 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: I didn't look any more - I think that wildcard support in the SSL thing is just broken :/ | 21:31 |
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| fredddd | So it is an issue in the client Maemo users? | 21:33 |
| fredddd | And there is most likely no way for somebody to fix and submit a patch? | 21:34 |
| fredddd | Guessing the state of Maemo. | 21:34 |
| Sicelo | prolly CSSU :/ | 21:34 |
| Robot101 | well CSSU can take a patch to it | 21:34 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, no I don't ssh connection to N900 :( | 21:34 |
| Robot101 | it's loudmouth I think | 21:34 |
| fredddd | I have yet to see an application to be truly patched with CSSU./ | 21:35 |
| fredddd | All I have noticed is impressively huge updates, doing nothing but updating some libraries. | 21:35 |
| Robot101 | see lm-ssl-openssl.c in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/l/loudmouth/loudmouth_1.4.1-0osso10+0m5.tar.gz | 21:35 |
| fredddd | Qt libraries, it was, right? | 21:35 |
| Robot101 | something fishy about that name checking | 21:35 |
| Robot101 | or you could be more gutsy and just upgrade telepathy a whole bunch - we ripped loudmouth out after the N900 because it's, well, crap :) | 21:35 |
| fredddd | I like to stick to repositories, even if that means waiting few weeks for an update. x.x | 21:36 |
| fredddd | Is there any other device on the market, having the convenient keyboard and operating system / software, the Nokia N900 has? | 21:36 |
| Robot101 | well, afaik there's nobody pushing CSSU to fix anything in particular, if you want to try and push a fix in, you can do it yourself | 21:37 |
| fredddd | That is really what I love about the Nokia N900. | 21:37 |
| fredddd | The easy and very pleasant software, and the comfortable keyboard. | 21:37 |
| fredddd | But the lack of care due to Nokia's ditching of it, ... | 21:37 |
| fredddd | Hm. =/ | 21:37 |
| * fredddd looks up N900 alternative on a search engine | 21:37 | |
| Robot101 | nemo mobile might run on the n900 and be more actively developed? | 21:38 |
| Robot101 | it's kinda animated corpse of meego :) | 21:38 |
| Sicelo | netadmin: delete the connection from N900 and start it afresh | 21:38 |
| fredddd | Do not like MeeGo. | 21:38 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, okay I tested | 21:38 |
| Robot101 | yeah I have no idea why they didn't pick a distro that wasn't dead | 21:38 |
| fredddd | It looks aweful if you ask me, and what is it anyway? I love Maemo, they should just fix that up. | 21:38 |
| netadmin | and wireless power energy save is "off" | 21:38 |
| fredddd | Maemo is so lovely, so is the N900, whenever I bring along my mobile phone somewhere people tell me how lovely it is, how fast they switch from browser, to a chat, in about one second. | 21:39 |
| fredddd | I can have ten chat windows open at once, with easy switching. | 21:39 |
| fredddd | Video call through XMPP. | 21:39 |
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| fredddd | In my eyes, how can MeeGo beat this? Does MeeGo beat this? | 21:40 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: people stopped developing the N900 software in 2009, you're not going to suddenly change the past by saying how nice the N900 is :) | 21:40 |
| fredddd | I already dislike how MeeGo looks on screenshots I have seen, so why bother going further than giving it a glimpse? | 21:40 |
| fredddd | I know, but I am just expressing my concern. | 21:40 |
| fredddd | Was just wondering if there is a similar device on the market, by another manufacturer. | 21:40 |
| Robot101 | I think the N9 is a beautiful phone actually, it does lack a h/w keyboard though :( | 21:41 |
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| fredddd | HTC looks like a candidate, but ... yeah. =/ | 21:41 |
| fredddd | Hardware keyboard is only way I swing anymore, after Nokia N900. | 21:41 |
| Robot101 | and I don't think the N9 it has video calling | 21:41 |
| Robot101 | whether that will see the light of day | 21:41 |
| fredddd | And Windows Phone, no thank you. | 21:41 |
| Robot101 | I also have a HP Pre 3 but it's also a dead OS | 21:41 |
| Robot101 | I like collecting dead phone OSes, it's my hobby | 21:41 |
| Robot101 | :P | 21:41 |
| * fredddd bought a Windows phone in 2007 for a new Windows Mobile to be released shortly after and then seeing how I would not opt in for an upgrade because manufacturer decision. | 21:42 | |
| fredddd | If there was only an OpenMoko that would not terrible appearance. | 21:42 |
| fredddd | have* | 21:42 |
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| netadmin | teah | 21:46 |
| netadmin | yeah | 21:46 |
| netadmin | Sicelo, I pinging and ssh connection now! | 21:46 |
| netadmin | thank you very much | 21:46 |
| netadmin | :) | 21:47 |
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| Sicelo | kewl | 21:49 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: did you try old SSL? | 21:49 |
| fredddd | No, I disabled it on my server. | 21:50 |
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| Robot101 | oh, you could also try manually specifying the server to just your bare domain | 21:56 |
| Robot101 | that might work actually | 21:56 |
| Robot101 | given that expressionate.org coincidentally resolves to your server :) | 21:57 |
| fredddd | Not to my XMPP server. | 21:57 |
| fredddd | My web server. | 21:57 |
| Robot101 | oh well | 21:57 |
| Robot101 | just throw it all in a fire and become a monk | 21:58 |
| fredddd | Ignoring the SSL errors. | 21:58 |
| fredddd | Means, ignore it and continue the SSL connection? | 21:58 |
| fredddd | Or, fail to SSL and resort to plain connection? | 21:58 |
| Robot101 | it will connect with encryption, just not barf if anything is wrong (date, CA, hostname, etc) | 21:58 |
| fredddd | I see. | 21:58 |
| Robot101 | unfortunately that leaves you open to trivial MITM but the data being encrypted stops any passive attacks | 21:59 |
| fredddd | Yes, I figured. | 21:59 |
| fredddd | Hm. | 21:59 |
| fredddd | =/ | 21:59 |
| fredddd | Do you consider for me to jump over the old SSL? | 22:00 |
| Robot101 | depends how much you care but you could issue a free non-wildcarded cert for your xmpp server from startssl.com | 22:00 |
| fredddd | And enable it on my sserver? | 22:00 |
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| fredddd | Well you know, I paid money for this SSL certificate, and, it would be pleasant. | 22:00 |
| fredddd | My desktop XMPP client works just flawlessly. | 22:00 |
| Robot101 | from what I can see, the wildcard code is just broken so it won't work unless your servername is a substring of the wildcard domain | 22:00 |
| Robot101 | it does if (certificate CN starts with *.) { find server name in certificate CN } | 22:01 |
| fredddd | =c | 22:01 |
| Robot101 | then if (certificate CN == server name) { carry on OK... } | 22:01 |
| fredddd | I am starting to doubt the security within this device and whether I should continue with it in general. | 22:02 |
| fredddd | I am contemplating a new purchase, of something better, and supported. | 22:02 |
| Robot101 | well... enjoy android or windows mobile or iOS... :/ | 22:02 |
| fredddd | I dislike greatly, how every mobile device is looking the same. | 22:02 |
| fredddd | Logo on top, screen, four buttons below. | 22:02 |
| Robot101 | I don't think any of them will be any more secure | 22:02 |
| Robot101 | hey the N9 has no buttons below :) | 22:03 |
| fredddd | I visit the N9 website. | 22:03 |
| fredddd | Pink N9. | 22:03 |
| fredddd | What? | 22:03 |
| Robot101 | actually, that puzzles me... why doesn't the server being expressionate.org let the thing connect? | 22:03 |
| fredddd | Let what thing connect? | 22:03 |
| Robot101 | if it's done a SRV lookup of @expressionate.org to find the XMPP server | 22:04 |
| Robot101 | it should be verifying the certificate belongs to expressionate.org | 22:04 |
| fredddd | SRV goes to xmpp.expressionate.org. :x | 22:04 |
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| fredddd | It should obey that. | 22:04 |
| Robot101 | no, it should check the certificate for the XMPP domain | 22:04 |
| Robot101 | otherwise you are open to DNS attacks | 22:04 |
| fredddd | They are both the same. | 22:04 |
| Robot101 | well yes, but that's just specific to your site | 22:05 |
| fredddd | There is no certificate for the XMPP domain. | 22:05 |
| fredddd | There is one certificate, for *.expressionate.org. | 22:05 |
| fredddd | Which I use for email, XMPP, website, etc... | 22:05 |
| Robot101 | an XMPP client connecting to blob@xmpp.org should do a SRV lookup and find a server. whatever.somewhere-else.org, connect to it, and be given a valid certificate for xmpp.org before sharing the credentials for the blob user. | 22:05 |
| Robot101 | if this is checking that whatever.somewhere-else.org has a certificate for whatever.somewhere-else.org (ie, trusting the SRV lookup) then it's doubly broken | 22:06 |
| fredddd | Could you explain the DNS attack? :x | 22:06 |
| fredddd | Yes. | 22:06 |
| fredddd | xmpp.expressionate.org has a certificate for xmpp.expressionate.org. | 22:06 |
| Robot101 | yes, that's useless though | 22:06 |
| Robot101 | if your DNS resolver is compromised, I can return a SRV result saying talk to evil.server.org | 22:06 |
| Robot101 | and I can prove that evil.server.org has a certificate for evil.server.org | 22:07 |
| fredddd | Hm, true. | 22:07 |
| fredddd | What do you consider a solution? | 22:07 |
| Robot101 | but that's not what your client should be caring about | 22:07 |
| Robot101 | put a port redirect on 5222 on your web server to your XMPP server? | 22:07 |
| Robot101 | that will let you set the server manually to expressionate.org and this stupid broken *. check will match and it should connect | 22:08 |
| fredddd | How will this fix the DNS attack issue? | 22:08 |
| Robot101 | there won't be a SRV lookup any more | 22:08 |
| Robot101 | (putting a manual server stops a SRV lookup being done) | 22:08 |
| fredddd | So you are saying those SRV lookups are DNS exploit prone naturally? | 22:08 |
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| Robot101 | no, a correctly-behaving client would check that the some.server.org has a certificate for expressionate.org | 22:09 |
| fredddd | So. | 22:09 |
| fredddd | My best option is to enable the old SSL? x3 | 22:09 |
| Robot101 | I don't think the old SSL will fix it either because this code won't accept *.expressionate.org as a certificate for xmpp.expressionate.org | 22:09 |
| fredddd | OpenSSL liked everything about the old SSL though. :x | 22:10 |
| fredddd | It returned status code 0 upon checking. | 22:10 |
| fredddd | Hm. | 22:10 |
| fredddd | Is there any alternative XMPP client? x.x | 22:10 |
| fredddd | That looks as pretty and integrated as this one? | 22:10 |
| Robot101 | no? fix loudmouth, or upgrade telepathy-gabble... | 22:10 |
| fredddd | Psi looks damn frigging sexy. | 22:11 |
| Robot101 | hahahaha... errr... | 22:11 |
| fredddd | http://psi-im.garage.maemo.org/ | 22:11 |
| Robot101 | or go and edit inetd.conf on your web server to use netcat and send 5222 to your XMPP server | 22:11 |
| fredddd | Never. x.x | 22:11 |
| fredddd | Psi, here I come. | 22:11 |
| Robot101 | enjoy... | 22:11 |
| fredddd | Why would I resort to dirty hacks for unattended software. | 22:12 |
| fredddd | Today, this will be an issue, tomorrow, there could be another issue? | 22:12 |
| Robot101 | why do I care either way? | 22:12 |
| fredddd | More dirty hacks to fix? | 22:12 |
| fredddd | I do not like that, I rather resort to supported software. | 22:12 |
| Robot101 | do you like the N900 or are you trying to prove a point? to who? | 22:12 |
| fredddd | Psi is available for Maemo? | 22:12 |
| fredddd | There seems to be a dediciated Maemo client even. | 22:12 |
| fredddd | Why do you frown upon me resorting to Psi Maemo? | 22:12 |
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| Robot101 | I worked on the Telepathy stack for the past 5-6 years and I'm kinda embarrassed we/Nokia screwed that part of it so much in the N900 :) | 22:13 |
| fredddd | Oh I see, so you are to blame. =3 | 22:13 |
| Robot101 | not me, but I could name names - not that it helps :P | 22:13 |
| fredddd | I did not know you were Nokia. | 22:13 |
| fredddd | x3 | 22:13 |
| Robot101 | I'm not | 22:13 |
| fredddd | So now you are trying to hide the past. | 22:13 |
| fredddd | Mh. | 22:13 |
| fredddd | x3 | 22:13 |
| * fredddd giggles | 22:13 | |
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| Robot101 | truthfully, we wasted too much time working on Loudmouth trying to add XMPP features like STARTTLS, SRV, etc | 22:14 |
| Robot101 | but it's a piece of crap - we should've shot it in the head and moved to our own library much sooner | 22:14 |
| Robot101 | which we actually did in 2009 but it wasn't mature in time for the N900 | 22:14 |
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| Robot101 | it works much better on the N9 ...? :) | 22:14 |
| zaccanasta | hi guys | 22:14 |
| fredddd | Send me one. =U | 22:14 |
| fredddd | N9 has no keyboard, right. | 22:14 |
| fredddd | No, thank you. | 22:14 |
| fredddd | I would not even want one for free in that case. | 22:15 |
| zaccanasta | i have problems with megavideo and n900 | 22:15 |
| Robot101 | well given I don't even have scratchbox installed any more, it's pretty hard for me to patch this for you | 22:15 |
| Robot101 | I dunno if someone here has the maemo 5 SDK installed and feels generous | 22:15 |
| fredddd | If it was not proprietary I would. | 22:16 |
| zaccanasta | i installed flash player 10 but nothing | 22:16 |
| fredddd | I do not have a GNU/Linux setup devoted to installing proprietary software on. | 22:16 |
| Robot101 | er - scratchbox itself is free - it's just some bits in the SDK to support the device which are closed | 22:16 |
| fredddd | Hm. | 22:17 |
| Robot101 | curiouser and curiouser... | 22:17 |
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| fredddd | The distribution I use has scratchbox2 available. | 22:17 |
| Robot101 | oh, don't even try that. you'll go mad. the SDK and scratchbox are way too interdependent. | 22:17 |
| Robot101 | you need to feed the right toolchain version into scratchbox from the outside and bla bla bla | 22:18 |
| Robot101 | it's all a bit insane | 22:18 |
| fredddd | So you developed the Nokia N900? | 22:18 |
| fredddd | I demand answers. | 22:19 |
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| fredddd | Where were you when those business managers deserved a good smack in their face for ditching Maemo!? >:L | 22:21 |
| fredddd | Or were you that guy. | 22:21 |
| fredddd | If so. | 22:21 |
| * fredddd smacks | 22:21 | |
| fredddd | If not, I take back my smack. | 22:21 |
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| zaccanasta | i have problems with megavideo and n900 | 22:32 |
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| MrOpposite | hi, I've got a problem. I can't place my n900 in upgrade/reflash mode. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, maybe it's because of I put it in R&D-mode prior to the breakdown. any ideas? | 22:33 |
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| MrOpposite | The procedure to putting the device in upgrade/reflash mode is pressing u while connecting the usb-cable after the device has been shut down? | 22:34 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: I was not that guy | 22:37 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: I'm one of the founders of Collabora (www.collabora.com) | 22:38 |
| fredddd | I see. | 22:38 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: we're an open source consultancy, we did a bunch of stuff for the N900 and N9 including working on the desktop and widget set (more in the N900 than N9), graphics drivers, multimedia framework (GStreamer), im/voip/cellular (Telepathy), contacts, general performance/architecture/"SWAT" team bugfixing, etc... | 22:38 |
| Robot101 | unfortunately for us we can't make our own products, so we have to go along with what our clients decide | 22:39 |
| fredddd | So if you were to want it, you could, push through a fix? | 22:39 |
| fredddd | But only if you had the SDK installed? | 22:39 |
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| Robot101 | Nokia won't put any updates out for the N900 any more | 22:40 |
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| fredddd | I would be willing to boot up a virtual machine with the requirements and if you could guide me. | 22:40 |
| fredddd | Get it done. | 22:40 |
| fredddd | No, Nokia would not, but there is CSSU. | 22:40 |
| Robot101 | ah right - well yes you can push something out through CSSU if you patched loudmouth | 22:40 |
| Robot101 | what's puzzling me is precisely why it didn't work | 22:40 |
| Robot101 | you can maybe help by catching a log on the device | 22:41 |
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| fredddd | Sure, I am up for it just give me the instructions and I will follow them. | 22:41 |
| Robot101 | I can't actually remember how to set up the SDK, I'm just a poor PHB now :) | 22:41 |
| Robot101 | to get a log, let me find some instructions | 22:42 |
| Robot101 | you need http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation to install the SDK - best is a 32-bit Debian or Ubuntu distribution | 22:43 |
| Robot101 | Debian stable would do fine I guess | 22:44 |
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| NIN101 | MrOpposite: Turning the device off, starting the flasher and then connecting the cable should be enough. Basically everything is described in http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 22:47 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: to get a log, disable all your IM accounts & open a terminal, killall telepathy-gabble | 22:48 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: then run LM_DEBUG=all GABBLE_DEBUG=all GABBLE_PERSIST=1 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble 2>&1 | tee gabble.log | 22:48 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: then edit your XMPP account and clear any weird ignore ssl / old ssl / manual server / etc setting, and enable the account | 22:49 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: then it will fail, you should get a bunch of stuff in the terminal also saved to gabble.log. you can disable the account again then ctrl+c that, and put the file online somewhere | 22:50 |
| Robot101 | (check first it doesn't contain your password :D) | 22:50 |
| fredddd | Ok, hold on, reading through it. | 22:51 |
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| fredddd | Grabbing Debian, then going to perform the log things. | 22:52 |
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| MrOpposite | I figured it out | 22:59 |
| MrOpposite | Stupid win7 | 22:59 |
| MrOpposite | thanks NIN101 | 22:59 |
| NIN101 | yw | 22:59 |
| MrOpposite | Bah, stupid old flashing-tool | 23:00 |
| MrOpposite | on linux I needed to downgrade my libusb | 23:00 |
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| MrOpposite | anyway I tested the flasher just now, and it worked | 23:00 |
| fredddd | Robot101, killall: telepathy-gabble: no process killed | 23:01 |
| fredddd | I need to be root? | 23:02 |
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| Robot101 | fredddd: nope I guess it's not running - should be fine to proceed | 23:02 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, these variables you are making me set, you do know how to revert them right? :3 | 23:03 |
| fredddd | I do not want to run in debug mode all the time. | 23:03 |
| fredddd | Or are they temporary? | 23:04 |
| fredddd | Only for the started instance? | 23:05 |
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| MrOpposite | YEEEEEES | 23:07 |
| MrOpposite | I managed to reflash my kernel without reflashing the whole phone | 23:07 |
| * MrOpposite is happy | 23:07 | |
| MrOpposite | Uhm, sortof wrong channel | 23:07 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: it will just set it for the started instance | 23:07 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, do you have any clue where I could move the log to so it would be available when I plug it into my computer? | 23:12 |
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| tramp | Should I get a bluetooth keyboard and a bluetooth mouse, a BT keyboard and a USB mouse, or a USB keyboard and a BT mouse? | 23:42 |
| kerio | tramp: yes | 23:42 |
| kerio | or neither | 23:42 |
| tramp | Or neither I suppose. | 23:43 |
| tramp | If both were BT, I could charge at the same time, or use a flashdrive. | 23:44 |
| fredddd | Get a desktop. | 23:44 |
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| fredddd | Do not turn your mobile device into one, just get one. | 23:45 |
| kerio | tramp: is this for the n900? | 23:45 |
| tramp | kerio: Yes. | 23:45 |
| kerio | tramp: hahahahahahahahaha | 23:45 |
| kerio | no | 23:45 |
| tramp | fredddd: The desktop isn't fitting in my pocket. | 23:45 |
| fredddd | Neither is that keyboard and mouse. | 23:45 |
| tramp | Interesting. | 23:45 |
| kerio | fredddd: a stowaway bt keyboard does! | 23:45 |
| fredddd | Hey, be on my side here! :< | 23:46 |
| fredddd | Anyway, I think you should sway more to a tablet PC with a keyboard and/or mouse, for what you need. | 23:46 |
| tramp | But your side is wrong.. | 23:46 |
| kerio | the n900 is a poor excuse for a desktop anyway | 23:46 |
| fredddd | Hey, there is not what the enemy side should be saying! | 23:46 |
| kerio | you'd want an openpandora for that | 23:46 |
| fredddd | We say the same about you! x3 | 23:46 |
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| tramp | fredddd: Hmm, but a tablet pc can't do what an N900 can. | 23:47 |
| fredddd | Christmas truce/ | 23:47 |
| fredddd | Let us play with a ball. | 23:47 |
| fredddd | And forget about our war arguments. | 23:47 |
| tramp | How boring. | 23:47 |
| tramp | How about war. | 23:47 |
| fredddd | So wait, what do you do on your N900. | 23:48 |
| tramp | Anyway, wouldn't the N900 work fine as a desktop in EasyDebian | 23:48 |
| fredddd | That pleases for yourself to have a mouse and keyboard on it? | 23:48 |
| tramp | When I'm mobile I do everything on my N900. | 23:48 |
| fredddd | Do you develop your software on it or something. | 23:49 |
| fredddd | And you be sitting on a train with keyboard and mouse out, or what? | 23:49 |
| tramp | fredddd: Yes! | 23:49 |
| fredddd | x.x | 23:49 |
| fredddd | I am going to stay out of this one from here on. | 23:49 |
| tramp | I have written some software on it, but I don't prefer it. | 23:49 |
| tramp | No train. | 23:50 |
| tramp | With a keyboard, I could modify the phone faster. | 23:50 |
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| fredddd | http://nokiaexperts.com/articleimages/2009/11/N900BTkeyboard.JPG | 23:53 |
| fredddd | Have fun. | 23:53 |
| tramp | So you mean to say it's a bad idea and waste of time, but you're too afraid to say so. | 23:54 |
| fredddd | I like cake. | 23:54 |
| fredddd | And that is all I will state. | 23:54 |
| fredddd | But you do not see me turning my N900 into a cake baking oven, now do you? :c | 23:55 |
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| tramp | I presumed it was only for lack of ability. | 23:55 |
| fredddd | Are you questioning my cake baking abilities here? | 23:56 |
| fredddd | Because if so, you might very well be right. | 23:56 |
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| tramp | Merely raising the question | 23:56 |
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| tramp | Stargus and other games would play better on a keyboard. | 23:58 |
| fredddd | That is because they were not designed for mobile devices. | 23:58 |
| tramp | I know, if only they were designed for mobile devices. | 23:58 |
| fredddd | Yeah ... =/ | 23:59 |
| fredddd | How much I like the idea of using your mobile phone for everything. | 23:59 |
| fredddd | Sadly, to me, it does not sound realistically. | 23:59 |
| trumee | Robot101: did your guys make any progress with the MWI support? | 23:59 |
| fredddd | Some manufacturers try to pack a gaming device into a mobile phone device, and well, for many of us, we can not even mention the name of any such device. | 23:59 |
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