IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-01-05

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_David_ok, "powertop > output.txt" shows some (stderr?) output but produces zero byte file, "powertop > output.txt 2>&1" puts only that output in the file ie 42 bytes.  Still can't capture the useful powertop output00:02
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SpeedEvil_David_: Odd.00:04
SpeedEvilNokia-N900-42-11:~# powertop >po00:04
SpeedEvilNokia-N900-42-11:~# ls -l po00:04
SpeedEvil-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         5656 Jan  4 22:03 po00:04
_David_I'm running powertop from a just-flashed N900, no patches00:04
SpeedEvilthis is a I think 1.2, that was OTA00:05
SpeedEvilI can't imagine it'd bedifferent though00:05
SpeedEvilDoes powertop show normakly?00:05
SpeedEvildo the same with ls00:05
SpeedEvilsee if you can pipe from that00:05
Siceloalso works for me00:05
SpeedEvilcheck for disk full00:05
Sleep_Walkersimple and maybe quite often question - how hard is to run maemo on android phone (DesireZ)? are there such attempts? is there some wiki covering status of such attempt?00:05
_David_disk should be almost empty, where do you get 1.2?00:06
SpeedEvilSleep_Walker: Impossible.00:06
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SiceloSleep_Walker: nope00:06
SpeedEvilSleep_Walker: Well - impossible may be strong.00:06
Siceloum, sorry SpeedEvil  :s00:06
SpeedEvilSleep_Walker: But it's at least man-years of effort.00:06
SpeedEvilAnd illegal.00:06
SpeedEvilWell - violating licence agreements on distributed software.00:06
platesigned boot-loaders, etc00:07
_David_can pipe ls -l fine00:07
Sleep_WalkerSpeedEvil: ad license issues - I don't care much, I'm not in US00:07
platerealistically, buying a N900 or some device Mer runs on is your best bet00:07
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SpeedEvilSleep_Walker: Inmost of theworld, it's not legal to do.00:07
SpeedEvilBut it's years of effort.00:07
Sleep_Walkeryup - man-years, that's the reason I ask about others... :)00:08
Sleep_Walkerwhat is so different? provided kernel interface?00:09
SpeedEvilMost of the core software is closed.00:09
plateandroid kernel won't work, its significantly diverged from vanilla00:09
plateand once you use that, your hardware wont be supporte00:09
_David_looks like my version is built for PR 1.0
SpeedEvilYou need to do carying stuff from reimplimenting core daemons, on up, if you want to get it to work00:10
guampahello, trying to get to root console from backupmenu, but when i enter the password for root and press enter i get the menu again, any ideas?00:10
Sleep_WalkerSpeedEvil: core software of maemo?00:10
Sleep_WalkerI thought it's opensource...00:10
platesome of it00:10
_David_will get 1.2, probably it will show no issues now...  thanks for help, will bbl00:10
guampaneed to do a full fsck on MyDocs, easy debian installation failed and left the fs ill00:10
plateand even if MAemo was 100% opensores, youre still stuck on kernel-vanilla/driver prob00:10
SpeedEvilNokia-N900-42-11:~# md5sum /sbin/powertop00:11
SpeedEvilc5e6aff4985fdf0acf5e5a410504f895  /sbin/powertop00:11
SpeedEvilSleep_Walker: Bits of it are opensource.00:11
Sicelo_David_: i'm on 1.300:11
Sicelono.. sorry, 1.1e.300:11
infobotSicelo meant: no.. sorry, 1.1.300:12
SpeedEvilSleep_Walker: I've said before that maemo openness has been carefully designed and engineered to allow 'the community' to write games, and minor patches to some system aspects. But to preclude anythingtoo ambitious.00:12
SpeedEvilAnd mean that any software written will not be trivially portable to other platforms.00:12
Sleep_Walkerthat's sad :/00:12
Sleep_Walkerthanks for your answers00:13
platebut, Maemo has Xorg00:13
plateyou can really compile/run whatever you want a lot easier than on Android00:13
platewhich doenst even have a libc youd expect00:13
platelet alone a normal kernel or X server00:13
Sleep_WalkerI'll try some debian instead00:14
platethats nice, until you want to use your GSM/GPS hardware00:14
plateso you have a really pricey wifi tablet00:14
plateplus, Illume is kinda primitive compared to Hildon/Matchbox/GTK stuff on maemo imo00:14
Sleep_WalkerI already have some experiences with Palm smartphones00:14
Sleep_WalkerGSM is pain00:15
Sleep_WalkerI'm at the phase of collecting information about HW00:15
Sleep_WalkerI miss some linux distro for mobile phones00:15
plateyou can see what hw #mer people are terying to get maemo/meego sw-legacy running on00:16
Sleep_Walkerplate: Illume is maybe primitive but it was quite enough for me00:16
platenone of it is fully-open, the cordia-Tab project has been futile so far00:16
platea ton of little thinsg00:16
platelike Terminal in maemo's tab/pageup/esc buttons00:16
plateyou can actually use Vi and stuff in a pinch00:16
platexterm on e17 was a pita in co mparison00:17
Sleep_WalkerI used my own X keyboard mappings so it was bearable00:17
plateits really amazing how many little touches are right in Maemo so its a shame NOKIA is so idiotic00:17
plateso many people in Finland / northern-europe obviously "Get it" re open-source, and have QT/GTK skill00:18
platetoo bad management is out on a date with MSFT00:18
Sleep_WalkerI was quite surprised that one month they released N950(?) and next month they welcome Windows...00:18
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Sleep_Walkertoo bad I didn't get one00:19
Sleep_Walkerthere is so many linux mobile initiatives and all sucks00:20
plateIllume is best bet imo00:20
platemake sure your hw can at least run debian..00:21
Sleep_WalkerI'm fan of E17 anyway and involved a bit in that project00:21
Sleep_Walkerdebian is no problem00:21
Sleep_Walkerproblem as you already said is controling devices00:22
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Sleep_Walkerthanks for info and good luck with maemo00:22
platebricked mine again00:22
platei think my bind-mount of /var is screwing it up, 5-dots progress bar actually stops, instead of rebooting tho00:23
plategot a single ext3 on emmc 32G that i'm too lazy to repartition back to what Maemo expects00:23
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plateremoving the 'generate/clobber /etc/fstab' lines in /etc/event.d/rcS-late works though...00:23
platei think its cuz /var/run is mounted and then becomes invisible when var is bindmounted, linux switched to /run recently00:24
plateso now i'm neck deep in RC scripts, beacuse maemo decided to ship on a device with a 256 mb /00:24
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plateshould i fix the OS to be bootable again, compile the latest u-boot branch so that i can try putting / right on emmc 32gb, or leave it on teh table with back off and battery out. the choice is easy00:28
platen900's flash really is slow. compiling / untarring stuff on a jb'd iPAd is so much faster00:29
platesaurik is a badman. if you're willing to jb and use HTML5/Safari only for UIs, iOS is becoming more of a compelling option00:30
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kerioat this point i'm just waiting for the droid 4, hoping it doesn't have a locked bootloader00:39
keriothe droid 3 is locked :(00:39
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wmarone__it's motorola00:43
wmarone__it'll be locked and they'll give some snarky response on why they refuse to offer an unlock00:43
keriobut they promised they'd make their future bootloaders unlocked!00:46
kerioi wouldn't touch that motocrap with a 10 foot pole, but no other company is actually making an android phone with a physical keyboard00:47
tank-manrelevant img :)
kerioi mean, the droid 3 can be rooted00:49
keriobut it still doesn't feel right :(00:49
keriohmm, the htc desire Z doesn't look bad00:51
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platedoes it run Debian?00:55
platei'll proably ust buy another n900 if mine breaks00:55
plateits down to 1/3 original retail price NIB00:55
WizzupHow much is it now?00:55
kerioas of now, my choice after mine breaks is another n90000:56
platemy definition of "open" includes open to possibilities00:56
plateandroid is prety much in last place. yay quasi-java00:56
kerioplate: yeah ._.00:56
keriobut the n900 feels really old00:57
kerioit's mostly the ram00:57
platespiral-zoom is pretty nutty too00:57
keriowho uses that?00:57
keriodouble-tap to zoom00:57
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platei use the buttons00:57
kerioor the volume keys00:57
keriomultitouch is crap anyway00:57
kerioi like my x11 with only one pointer :)00:57
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kerioi'd totally buy a n900 with 1gb of ram00:58
kerioand no optification00:58
platedid N950 have more RAM00:58
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kerioDocScrutinizer: build me a n900 with 1gb of ram00:58
platecant they just do a run of say, 100K of those00:58
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kerioplate: i'm actually really bummed that they haven't done a retail run of n950s00:58
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kerioplate: the alternative is an openpandora with a MiFi00:59
DocScrutinizerplate: dm8tbr convinced me Nokia is too big to be able to do that01:00
kerioi wonder how a usb modem would fit on an openpandora01:00
DocScrutinizerkerio: aye Sir - will need ~USD 10k01:00
kerioDocScrutinizer: woah, 1GB of ram is that expensive? :o01:00
DocScrutinizerno, but 10 times RAM and 10 N900 in perfect condition, plus labour...01:01
kerioDocScrutinizer: i meant "take an actual retail N900, unsolder the RAM and solder a bigger RAM on it"01:01
keriowhy do you need 10?01:02
kerioi only need one!01:02
DocScrutinizerkerio: that'S exactly what I offered to do, and I assumed I'm good on that and only will need 9 to practice01:02
keriooh, i see01:02
keriowould i be able to keep the n900s that survive the practice?01:02
DocScrutinizernone will survive, except that last golden one where everything worked01:03
DocScrutinizermaybe not even I will survive that ;-P01:03
kerioi'm sure the ones before will magically "break"01:03
kerioeven if nothing went wrong01:04
DocScrutinizeryou'll just see defects that are hard to fix on doing same procedure once more to them01:04
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DocScrutinizersoldering large BGA, even PoP, isn't exactly simple. Needs quite some luck to get any of the first dozen right01:05
keriook :(01:06
DocScrutinizerthen I'll probably have to sloughter other high priced devices to get a hold on the needed chips01:06
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merlin1991me always wonders how the fuck those chips get soldered on01:06
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keriodoes this mean that i have to buy a desire z or a milestone 3? :(01:06
kerioi really like maemo01:06
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: "very simple" - just reflow solder them01:07
javispedroI do know some people that is potentially "good" doing this01:07
kerioDocScrutinizer: what does that mean?01:07
javispedrobut I am quite sure they'd ask for a few N900s at least01:07
DocScrutinizermeans "heat up the whole board to the temperature where the solder paste stamped thru' a stencil will melt and solder the chip in place01:08
javispedroplus, I do not even know where I'd source pin compatible PoP with larger RAM01:08
kerioDocScrutinizer: cool, let's do that! :D01:08
kerioi'm sure you have all the necessary equipment01:08
merlin1991just supply the 10k kerio ;)01:08
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keriowill 10k yen be enough?01:09
merlin1991I fear not01:09
DocScrutinizerfor sure not, probably not even USD01:10
* merlin1991 needs to finally catch a decent n900 on ebay01:10
DocScrutinizermight need 10k GBP01:10
merlin1991got 2 but one has a completely borked modem, and the other one is about to give in01:10
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FIQso I have the uboot bootloader, and an uImage in /boot on my mmc... now I just need to figure out how to use it11:56
FIQwasn't as trivial as a "run mmcboot" from the uboot prompt anyway D:11:56
FIQanyone willing to help, or do I need to figure it out by myself?11:56
r00t|homenobody awake, and not something  can help with, sorry12:02
r00t|homeconsider that it's middle of the night in the us12:02
FIQheh, ok12:03
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DocScrutinizer51depends on your uBoot(-config)12:10
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FIQatm the u-boot is in its' vanilla state (the state provided by uboot-pr13). I have an uImage on /boot @ MMC (/dev/mmcblk1p1). I'm reading up on how u-boot works at the moment, but it seems pretty lowlevel12:16
FIQ(i.e. a bit hard for me to understand)12:17
FIQthe MMC is formatted as an ext3 partition12:18
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burri cant boot debian to save my life12:23
burri get silly errors like /dev/mmcblk0p1: unable to mount root fs. list of fs... /dev/mmcblk0p112:23
burrwith the 2.6.37 in rescueOS and root=/dev/mmcblk0pp112:24
burrand u-boot errors are even worse and sooner12:24
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burr2 years ago i booted debian with absolutely no hassles using bootmenu12:24
burrnow that is broken too12:24
trist4nthis is a ridiculous question, but i am stuck. do you think i could use my n900 as a boot medium to install windows.12:24
trist4ni have literally no other storage.12:24
burras usb-storage i think so12:24
trist4nim not sure how i should partition this really12:25
burrits 1000x easier to put Paludis, Portage, Pacman, or debootstrap on a USB storage and install linux12:25
FIQdoes it fit?12:25
trist4nits only a 3.2gb iso12:25
FIQ@ trist4n12:25
FIQshould work then... allbeit slow12:26
trist4ncould i uh12:26
FIQi guess12:26
trist4nuse my /home/user/MyDocs partition12:26
trist4nand just restore it later12:26
burrall sorts of MBR / NTLDR / bootmgr voodoo has to be exactly correct12:26
trist4nits that or install windows 7 over tftp and a crossover cable, maybe that would be better.12:26
burreven down to arbitrary start offsets of partitions etc12:27
burrtheres windows utilities that set up USB storage to boot windows12:27
burrand a few shell scripts12:27
burri really wouldnt bother unless you find one of those utils12:27
trist4nmaybe the tftp would be the way to go12:27
burrBartPE or so12:27
burrand then moutn your install media over samba12:28
burrthat works, if you acn get bartpe booting from n900's mass-storage12:28
burronly needs 256mb or so12:28
trist4nyeah thats the million dollar question ey.12:28
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trist4nhmm i might have an old usnb that would fit bartpe on it12:29
burrive only ever installed windows off USB-storage12:29
burrits a pita, but doable12:29
trist4nyeah ive had to do it before as well12:29
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burrone time i had to 'recovery shell' XCOPY the install files to HD from USB12:29
burrcuz it was too dumb to see the HD when USB was plugged in12:29
trist4non holidays trying to setup someones netbook, unfortunately i dont have a usb that can hold it12:29
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burrFIQ: which u-boot do you have? hopefully12:30
burrive gotten the furthest with that one, but still errors once kernel is going heh12:31
burrcomplicating this is initfs!=initrd i think12:31
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burrall this one-off crap... NOLO.. FIASCO12:31
burradd in a bzip2'd squashfs on a ramdisk and blahblah.. why is it not simple like installing linux on x86 heh12:32
burrim about to just give up and go buy an ANdroid device12:32
burrmaemo keeps shitting itself..12:32
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burreven after fresh reflash, apps will start losing their settings after a while etc. im wondering if maybe ive got bad flash blocks12:33
burri mean, its ext2 not jffs2 but i guess the hw has block-masking, if its any decent (perhaps why its so slow?)12:33
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burrim crazy enough to have written my own email-client, news-aggregator, spreadsheet/log slicing-dicing tools etc, but the reality is theyre haskell & ruby code with a browser UI, and at least the ruby part runs perfectly on iOS12:35
burrso theres really no reason to be a slave to this abandoned stuff anymore12:35
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burrso.. yeah. nokia device.. never again12:36
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FIQhmm, fun12:47
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FIQseems I want mmcinit; ext3load mmc 0:1 0x800000 /boot/uImage (the 0x800000 might be able to be something else)12:48
FIQthe only problem: 'mmcinit' not found, try 'help'12:48
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FIQ(the same with ext3load, but there's ext2load)12:48
FIQif I ignore mmcboot and use ext2load, it ends up outputting "Bad partition 0:1" (and i know it's fully functional)12:50
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vallhallaGood day all12:57
kerioburr: :(12:59
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vallhallakerio: why the sad face?13:17
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freddddI am having an SSL error issue with Jabber inside Maemo.14:29
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freddddI have setup my own ejabberd server with a valid certificate from a trusted authority. On my desktop client Gajim, everything goes fine, and it connects without any SSL warning (or having any option ticked to ignore them).14:29
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freddddWhile on Maemo Jabber, I can not connect unless I keep "ignore SSL errors" ticked. =/14:29
freddddWould anyone be able to help me with this?14:30
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chem|stfredddd: you might need to install the servers certificate to get it working that way14:33
freddddHm, but they should be in the certificate repository, no?14:33
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chem|stself signed certs without signed root cert is common14:34
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freddddIt is not self signed.14:34
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freddddIt is a COMODO certificate.14:34
freddddI did not create it myself, I got it from a trusted certificate authority, I was hoping Maemo would pick up on those.14:35
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freddddIf I figure out the openssl command to test the connection, I could indicate if it is a mistake on my side or if it is a software fault.14:36
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freddddAt first sight, it seems to be a mistake on my side.14:41
freddddWill fix and report how it went.14:41
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freddddchem|st, I am not sure.14:52
fredddd2135:error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol:s23_clnt.c:607:14:53
freddddMy desktop client connects without issues, no SSL error or warning.14:53
freddddLooking up what that SSL error means with ejabberd, it seemed like software incompatibility with OpenSSL or something, not sure, I think I am a bit too much of a newbie to conclude. D:14:53
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hhartzhas anyone experienced processes still being alive after closing in recents view on N9?14:55
freddddWait, what?14:56
freddddAre you asking for N9 help in here? D:14:56
hhartzhehe, faux pas14:58
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bindii took my n900 to nokia care - they were hesitant to take it in.. and said that they don't cover the white spots that many people do15:56
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bindi"no official notice about white spots and replacing/fixing units has been given" or something15:57
bindiafter 10 mins they took it in and promised to replace the screen15:57
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edheldilbindi:  what white spots? I have noticeable lighter spots on display when it's white, but they're not not obtrusive enough to do anything about it16:03
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, otoh is On The Other Hand.  It's YAFA.16:09
infoboti guess yafa is Yet Another Freakin Acronym.16:10
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bindiedheldil: those exactly16:14
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RaimuNokia Care would probably just give you a new cellphone from a different line if the white specks (that I also have) were an issue, anyway.16:20
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bindiright well16:21
bindiit is an issue :P16:21
bindiyour phone isnt supposed to have white spots on the screen16:21
bindi"I had the dual bright spots. Nokia Care Point replaced the whole unit."16:23
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janibindi: lucky sob.. i took mine for repairs got e7 back =)16:27
bindii asked them am i to expect a repaired n900 or an e716:27
bindithey said they'll replace the screen, which will take time16:27
bindiand apparently, the spots will just come back16:27
bindiso i'll take it back as soon as that happens16:27
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bindijani: do you happen to have a receipt for that operation? :P16:30
bindishe really didnt believe that many n900s have this problem and insisted that it's water damage16:30
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netadminsorry, I have a question18:45
netadminwhere is the maemo flasher 3.5 debian installed package?18:45
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infoboti heard maemo-flashing is
merlin1991netadmin: in case you heaven't found it already:
netadminmerlin1991, thank you I installed18:58
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Paliping X-Fade19:07
freddddDoes anyone know if it is possible to properly connect with Maemo's Jabber with no SSL errors through STARTTLS?19:07
Pali~seen X-Fade19:07
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 117 messages. Is idling for 3h 45m 26s, last said: 'lunch, brb'.19:07
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freddddI have setup my own ejabberd server with a valid certificate, and I can not connect to it through Maemo's default Jabber client without having "Ignore SSL Errors" ticked.19:07
freemangordonPali, this lunch reminds me of hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. I wish it was funny.19:09
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netadminsorry, I have a question19:09
netadminHow can I root maemo 5?19:09
netadminI using Nokia N90019:10
freddddThere is an application for it in the repository I believe.19:10
freddddTo enable it.19:10
freddddThe Maemo wiki has a page on it as well, I think.19:10
netadminwhat is application name?19:10
netadminokay I checked19:10
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edheldilfredddd:  I think I have the same problem. Could it be due to an unknown CA?19:15
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freddddedheldil, the certificate is fine, generated by a trusted authority.19:17
netadminfredddd, ok thanks I installed19:17
freddddThe certificate is also running at http://expressionate.org19:17
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freddddVisiting the website on Maemo browser gives no sign of an invalid certificate either.19:18
freddddI think Maemo's Jabber is incompatible with XMPP STARTTLS wise.19:18
freddddI enabled the old SSL method at port 5223 and verified with OpenSSL and there were no errors.19:18
Robot101?! no, starttls works fine19:18
freddddSo I am considering everything is fine on my side, as Gajim (desktop client) connects fine without any SSL errors.19:18
freddddOn Maemo's Jabber client?19:19
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freddddRobot101, can you connect with Jabber to your XMPP network, having "Ignore SSL errors" unticked?19:19
freddddI can connect as long as that is ticked.19:19
edheldildo you have 'old certificate' ticket? No idea what's that19:19
freddddWhat do you mean?19:20
freddddOld certificate ticked?19:20
edheldilThere are checkboxes for 'Require encryption', 'Use old SSL cert', 'Ignore SSL cert errors' ...19:23
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Robot101fredddd: does your certificate belong to or
Robot101openssl s_client is being a dick so I can't check atm19:24
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freddddRobot101, all of them.19:30
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freddddThe certificate covers all subdomains.19:30
Robot101does it cover itself though?19:30
freddddThe initial domain and the sub domains, one certificate for everything.19:30
edheldilwell, the short name is in SubjAltName, though - maybe Maemo's jabber is stupid?19:33
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Robot101I can't remember which version of telepathy is running on the N90019:34
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Robot101dpkg -l telepathy-gabble ?19:34
freddddApparently an out-dated noe.19:34
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freddddI do not believe a lot gets updated on Maemo.19:34
Robot101well obviously it's old, but I want to look at the corresponding source :)19:34
freddddI have only seen libraries get updated with CSSU, really. =/19:34
freddddIt seems to have broken at PR1.2, having people to click Ignore SSL Errors, when trying to look for a solution myself online.19:35
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Robot101really? hrm19:36
Robot101the 0.8 branch was for Maemo19:36
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netadminmaemo updated 2011.38-119:41
Robot101fredddd: hrm, the SSL code is inside loudmouth on the N90019:41
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Robot101er how do you get the actual source?19:44
Robot101I'm going round in circles on
edheldilpackage source? apt-get source or st. like that19:45
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Robot101yeah I've not had any working scratchbox configured for maemo for years19:45
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freddddRobot101, keep me updated with your progress and findings.19:56
Robot101I've kinda stalled19:57
Robot101I wanted to find the maemo patches to loudmouth which add OpenSSL support19:57
Robot101that code is maemo-specific and untested outside of maemo, even though the XMPP stack is widely used elsewhere19:57
Robot101it's entirely possible that just doesn't test SubjAltName19:58
Robot101either a bug in that lm+OpenSSL code or a bug in Maemo's OpenSSL patches19:58
merlin1991there's your source19:59
edheldilpm me if you find st. interesting. Bye ...19:59
Robot101yeah so just inspecting trivially, it only gets the common name there20:00
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Robot101so that's why it doesn't work20:02
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Robot101if you override the server name, put manually,, then it won't do a SRV lookup, but the certificate should match20:03
Robot101that's my best guess at a workaround20:03
Robot101sorry :/20:03
netadminI don't installed rootsh :(20:04
Robot101fredddd: ^^20:04
Robot101edheldil: do you also have a cert with SubjAltName20:04
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netadminenable rd mode if you want to break your device20:06
netadminwhat is RD mode enabled?20:06
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merlin1991you can use flasher to enable R&D mode20:10
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freddddRobot101, going to try.20:11
freddddBut it would be weird, as the certificate applies for * (thus anything, and nothing, too, normally).20:11
NIN101somebody who asks what R&D mode is shouldn't enable it few minutes after he asked that question.20:11
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Robot101fredddd: yes, so should match it20:11
merlin1991NIN101: agreed :D20:11
NIN101but is nothing but a CNAME to the A / AAAA record (the actual server).20:11
Robot101*.foo doesn't match foo in these contexts20:11
freddddAnd the SRV records for XMPP client and server point to, is this why?20:12
Robot101actually I didn't quite stay to understand the code but you can read it fairly easily in lm-ssl-openssl.c20:12
* fredddd crosses fingers20:12
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Robot101maybe this wildcard code is just broken20:17
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netadminhey,  maemo extras repository is not running?20:26
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freddddRobot101, no luck setting
freddddIt would be helpful if I could look up the SSL error that is actually blocking it from connecting.20:29
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merlin1991netadmin: it is running20:43
netadminfredddd, I installed openssh-client and openssh-server20:43
netadminmerlin1991, yes I running! but i install openssh-client and openssh-server20:43
netadminmy ip adresses is nokia n900 ip
netadminI'm not ping nokia n90020:44
netadminwhat is problem? you think?20:44
freddddWhat do you mean?20:44
netadminI'm not connect to ssh.20:44
freddddOh I thought this was related to the Maemo's Jabber SSL error thing.20:45
netadminfredddd, I installed openssh-client and server on the Maemo (N900)20:45
netadminI using laptop, my laptop ip is
netadminn900 ip is
netadminI'm not ping n900 and not connect to ssh :(20:45
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netadminwhat is your using tablet model?20:46
freddddYou can open the terminal and do things in there.20:46
netadmindo you connect to tablet on the ssh ports?20:46
freddddUnless you prefer to do mobile phone operations from your desktop.20:46
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freddddI do not SSH at all.20:46
freddddTo my phone.20:46
freddddI have little need for advanced terminal operations on my N900.20:46
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freddddI just use it for XMPP, email, calendar, contacts and considering RSS if I can make it pleasant.20:47
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netadminfredddd, okay I understand but why not connect to ssh n900?20:47
Sicelonetadmin: u use wifi or what?20:48
netadminSicelo, yes I using Wifi20:48
netadminN900 connect wifi20:48
netadminmy laptop connect ewifi20:48
netadminboth of which received ip address, not problem20:48
freddddMy nommy N900 desktop:
Sicelou have an access point or using Ad-Hoc?20:49
freddddnetadmin, no need for it.20:49
freddddIf I want to SSH to anything I will SSH to my servers. =p20:49
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netadminSicelo, hm my modem is ad-hoc :)20:50
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Sicelomodem? :P20:50
netadminN900 and my laptop connect to wifi modem :) wifi modem serve DHCP20:51
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netadminyes internet modem + router20:51
netadminmodem ip add is
Siceloanyway, paste 'ifconfig wlan0' from n900 . and also from your laptop20:51
Sicelodon't paste here btw :)20:52
netadminI ping modem20:52
netadmin# ping
netadminPING ( 56(84) bytes of data.20:52
netadmin64 bytes from icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=2.38 ms20:52
netadmin64 bytes from icmp_req=2 ttl=64 time=1.81 ms20:52
netadminyes yes I checked20:52
Sicelou were pinging from n900?20:53
netadminthis is my laptop:20:53
netadmin# ifconfig wlan020:53
netadminwlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:22:5f:1d:de:0e20:53
netadmin          inet addr:
netadminthis is N90020:53
netadmin# ifconfig wlan020:53
netadminwlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:22:5f:1d:de:0e20:53
netadmin          inet addr:
netadminN900 not pinging :(20:54
netadminah no20:54
freddddRobot101, any luck with SSL or did you give up? :320:54
Sicelolol netadmin20:55
freddddThe server pointing did not work, even rebooted my device in attempt for it to automatically work after reboot, it did not.20:55
netadminSicelo, N900 pinging modem ( and not ping my laptop (
netadminI checked modem?20:56
netadmin# ping
netadminPING ( 56(84) bytes of data.20:56
netadminFrom icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable20:56
netadminFrom icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable20:56
netadminmy laptop not ping N900, I dislike :(20:57
Sicelonetadmin: dont paste this stuff here. Please20:57
netadminah okay, sorry I using pastebin. sorry:20:57
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Siceloso, n900 pings your 'modem', laptop pings 'modem', but they can't ping one another, right?20:58
netadminn900 not ping laptop and laptop not ping n900 :(21:00
netadminand  I not ssh connection laptop -> n90021:00
OkropNicknetadmin: the same MAC address on both machines?21:01
netadminOkropNick, I checked and no.21:01
netadminI checked arp tables21:01
netadminthis is problem:21:02
netadmin# arp -a | grep 921:02
netadmin? ( at <incomplete> on wlan021:02
netadminMAC is incomplete hmm21:02
Sicelohow did u bring up N900 wifi?21:03
netadminMaemo not support "arp" command?21:03
OkropNickI'm not good in net configuration, but it was just strange for me21:03
Sicelome too OkropNick :)21:04
netadminN900 connected Wifi and connect internet :)21:04
netadminnot problem I addedd extras repos install rootsh, openssh client and server package.21:04
netadminI checked21:04
netadminwait thanks for all help friend, good night.21:04
netadminSettings -> Internet Connections21:05
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netadminconnect wi-fi search interval never21:05
netadminMaemo don't support arp command?21:06
Sicelonetadmin: i suspect your modem configuration.21:06
Siceloyes.. no arp by default21:06
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netadminarp package have to extras repos?21:07
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Siceloi don't see it there either, nor in devel :/21:07
netadminSicelo, okay I checked modem but N900 not send MAC adresses using "ARP" protocols.21:07
netadminSicelo, do you using N900?21:09
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netadminok using computer/laptop? :)21:10
netadmindo you connect ssh N900 Sicelo?21:10
netadminMrOpposite, hello, good night:21:10
MrOppositeI made a mistake when toying around with multiboot, I installed a new kernel, and forgot to edit my .item file21:10
Siceloyup netadmin. i do that at time21:10
MrOppositeso now my n900 doesn't boot due to "Can't flash kernel"21:11
MrOppositeHow do I bypass multiboot?21:11
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Sicelonetadmin: sometimes issue can be WLAN Power Saving.. switch that off for now.. until your connection works21:11
MrOppositeor atleast gain access to the .item-file so I can change  it21:11
netadminSicelo, please run arp -a command laptop and computer?21:11
netadminplease connect ssh computer-> N900 and run arp -a command computer?21:12
netadminwhere is the wlan power saving menu? I checked21:12
SiceloMrOpposite: multiboot is fsckd21:12
netadminSicelo, your N900 "designed in finland"?21:12
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Sicelonetadmin: all N900 are21:13
netadminhmm, "made in korean"? :)21:14
netadminfalse news?21:14
Sicelothere are fakes21:15
netadminok I understand21:15
netadmindo you connect ssh N900?21:15
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netadmin# arp21:16
netadminAddress                  HWtype  HWaddress           Flags Mask            Iface21:16
netadmin172.16.1.1               ether   00:22:65:51:37:27   C                     wlan021:16
netadmin172.16.1.9                       (incomplete)                              wlan021:16
netadminthis is problem: N900 not send MAC adress my laptop, N900 not support ARP?21:16
netadminI checked windows, wait.21:16
DocScrutinizer51dang this battery indicator is pure crap21:20
DocScrutinizer51when it gets red, there's no area left to see the red21:20
DocScrutinizer51and no decent info in menu either21:21
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Robot101fredddd: I didn't look any more - I think that wildcard support in the SSL thing is just broken :/21:31
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freddddSo it is an issue in the client Maemo users?21:33
freddddAnd there is most likely no way for somebody to fix and submit a patch?21:34
freddddGuessing the state of Maemo.21:34
Siceloprolly CSSU :/21:34
Robot101well CSSU can take a patch to it21:34
netadminSicelo, no I don't ssh connection to N900 :(21:34
Robot101it's loudmouth I think21:34
freddddI have yet to see an application to be truly patched with CSSU./21:35
freddddAll I have noticed is impressively huge updates, doing nothing but updating some libraries.21:35
Robot101see lm-ssl-openssl.c in
freddddQt libraries, it was, right?21:35
Robot101something fishy about that name checking21:35
Robot101or you could be more gutsy and just upgrade telepathy a whole bunch - we ripped loudmouth out after the N900 because it's, well, crap :)21:35
freddddI like to stick to repositories, even if that means waiting few weeks for an update. x.x21:36
freddddIs there any other device on the market, having the convenient keyboard and operating system / software, the Nokia N900 has?21:36
Robot101well, afaik there's nobody pushing CSSU to fix anything in particular, if you want to try and push a fix in, you can do it yourself21:37
freddddThat is really what I love about the Nokia N900.21:37
freddddThe easy and very pleasant software, and the comfortable keyboard.21:37
freddddBut the lack of care due to Nokia's ditching of it, ...21:37
freddddHm. =/21:37
* fredddd looks up N900 alternative on a search engine21:37
Robot101nemo mobile might run on the n900 and be more actively developed?21:38
Robot101it's kinda animated corpse of meego :)21:38
Sicelonetadmin: delete the connection from N900 and start it afresh21:38
freddddDo not like MeeGo.21:38
netadminSicelo, okay I tested21:38
Robot101yeah I have no idea why they didn't pick a distro that wasn't dead21:38
freddddIt looks aweful if you ask me, and what is it anyway? I love Maemo, they should just fix that up.21:38
netadminand wireless power energy save is "off"21:38
freddddMaemo is so lovely, so is the N900, whenever I bring along my mobile phone somewhere people tell me how lovely it is, how fast they switch from browser, to a chat, in about one second.21:39
freddddI can have ten chat windows open at once, with easy switching.21:39
freddddVideo call through XMPP.21:39
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freddddIn my eyes, how can MeeGo beat this? Does MeeGo beat this?21:40
Robot101fredddd: people stopped developing the N900 software in 2009, you're not going to suddenly change the past by saying how nice the N900 is :)21:40
freddddI already dislike how MeeGo looks on screenshots I have seen, so why bother going further than giving it a glimpse?21:40
freddddI know, but I am just expressing my concern.21:40
freddddWas just wondering if there is a similar device on the market, by another manufacturer.21:40
Robot101I think the N9 is a beautiful phone actually, it does lack a h/w keyboard though :(21:41
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freddddHTC looks like a candidate, but ... yeah. =/21:41
freddddHardware keyboard is only way I swing anymore, after Nokia N900.21:41
Robot101and I don't think the N9 it has video calling21:41
Robot101whether that will see the light of day21:41
freddddAnd Windows Phone, no thank you.21:41
Robot101I also have a HP Pre 3 but it's also a dead OS21:41
Robot101I like collecting dead phone OSes, it's my hobby21:41
* fredddd bought a Windows phone in 2007 for a new Windows Mobile to be released shortly after and then seeing how I would not opt in for an upgrade because manufacturer decision.21:42
freddddIf there was only an OpenMoko that would not terrible appearance.21:42
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netadminSicelo, I pinging and ssh connection now!21:46
netadminthank you very much21:46
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Robot101fredddd: did you try old SSL?21:49
freddddNo, I disabled it on my server.21:50
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Robot101oh, you could also try manually specifying the server to just your bare domain21:56
Robot101that might work actually21:56
Robot101given that coincidentally resolves to your server :)21:57
freddddNot to my XMPP server.21:57
freddddMy web server.21:57
Robot101oh well21:57
Robot101just throw it all in a fire and become a monk21:58
freddddIgnoring the SSL errors.21:58
freddddMeans, ignore it and continue the SSL connection?21:58
freddddOr, fail to SSL and resort to plain connection?21:58
Robot101it will connect with encryption, just not barf if anything is wrong (date, CA, hostname, etc)21:58
freddddI see.21:58
Robot101unfortunately that leaves you open to trivial MITM but the data being encrypted stops any passive attacks21:59
freddddYes, I figured.21:59
freddddDo you consider for me to jump over the old SSL?22:00
Robot101depends how much you care but you could issue a free non-wildcarded cert for your xmpp server from startssl.com22:00
freddddAnd enable it on my sserver?22:00
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freddddWell you know, I paid money for this SSL certificate, and, it would be pleasant.22:00
freddddMy desktop XMPP client works just flawlessly.22:00
Robot101from what I can see, the wildcard code is just broken so it won't work unless your servername is a substring of the wildcard domain22:00
Robot101it does if (certificate CN starts with *.) { find server name in certificate CN }22:01
Robot101then if (certificate CN == server name) { carry on OK... }22:01
freddddI am starting to doubt the security within this device and whether I should continue with it in general.22:02
freddddI am contemplating a new purchase, of something better, and supported.22:02
Robot101well... enjoy android or windows mobile or iOS... :/22:02
freddddI dislike greatly, how every mobile device is looking the same.22:02
freddddLogo on top, screen, four buttons below.22:02
Robot101I don't think any of them will be any more secure22:02
Robot101hey the N9 has no buttons below :)22:03
freddddI visit the N9 website.22:03
freddddPink N9.22:03
Robot101actually, that puzzles me... why doesn't the server being let the thing connect?22:03
freddddLet what thing connect?22:03
Robot101if it's done a SRV lookup of to find the XMPP server22:04
Robot101it should be verifying the certificate belongs to expressionate.org22:04
freddddSRV goes to :x22:04
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freddddIt should obey that.22:04
Robot101no, it should check the certificate for the XMPP domain22:04
Robot101otherwise you are open to DNS attacks22:04
freddddThey are both the same.22:04
Robot101well yes, but that's just specific to your site22:05
freddddThere is no certificate for the XMPP domain.22:05
freddddThere is one certificate, for *
freddddWhich I use for email, XMPP, website, etc...22:05
Robot101an XMPP client connecting to should do a SRV lookup and find a server., connect to it, and be given a valid certificate for before sharing the credentials for the blob user.22:05
Robot101if this is checking that has a certificate for (ie, trusting the SRV lookup) then it's doubly broken22:06
freddddCould you explain the DNS attack? :x22:06
freddddYes.22:06 has a certificate for
Robot101yes, that's useless though22:06
Robot101if your DNS resolver is compromised, I can return a SRV result saying talk to evil.server.org22:06
Robot101and I can prove that has a certificate for evil.server.org22:07
freddddHm, true.22:07
freddddWhat do you consider a solution?22:07
Robot101but that's not what your client should be caring about22:07
Robot101put a port redirect on 5222 on your web server to your XMPP server?22:07
Robot101that will let you set the server manually to and this stupid broken *. check will match and it should connect22:08
freddddHow will this fix the DNS attack issue?22:08
Robot101there won't be a SRV lookup any more22:08
Robot101(putting a manual server stops a SRV lookup being done)22:08
freddddSo you are saying those SRV lookups are DNS exploit prone naturally?22:08
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Robot101no, a correctly-behaving client would check that the has a certificate for expressionate.org22:09
freddddMy best option is to enable the old SSL? x322:09
Robot101I don't think the old SSL will fix it either because this code won't accept * as a certificate for xmpp.expressionate.org22:09
freddddOpenSSL liked everything about the old SSL though. :x22:10
freddddIt returned status code 0 upon checking.22:10
freddddIs there any alternative XMPP client? x.x22:10
freddddThat looks as pretty and integrated as this one?22:10
Robot101no? fix loudmouth, or upgrade telepathy-gabble...22:10
freddddPsi looks damn frigging sexy.22:11
Robot101hahahaha... errr...22:11
Robot101or go and edit inetd.conf on your web server to use netcat and send 5222 to your XMPP server22:11
freddddNever. x.x22:11
freddddPsi, here I come.22:11
freddddWhy would I resort to dirty hacks for unattended software.22:12
freddddToday, this will be an issue, tomorrow, there could be another issue?22:12
Robot101why do I care either way?22:12
freddddMore dirty hacks to fix?22:12
freddddI do not like that, I rather resort to supported software.22:12
Robot101do you like the N900 or are you trying to prove a point? to who?22:12
freddddPsi is available for Maemo?22:12
freddddThere seems to be a dediciated Maemo client even.22:12
freddddWhy do you frown upon me resorting to Psi Maemo?22:12
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Robot101I worked on the Telepathy stack for the past 5-6 years and I'm kinda embarrassed we/Nokia screwed that part of it so much in the N900 :)22:13
freddddOh I see, so you are to blame. =322:13
Robot101not me, but I could name names - not that it helps :P22:13
freddddI did not know you were Nokia.22:13
Robot101I'm not22:13
freddddSo now you are trying to hide the past.22:13
* fredddd giggles22:13
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Robot101truthfully, we wasted too much time working on Loudmouth trying to add XMPP features like STARTTLS, SRV, etc22:14
Robot101but it's a piece of crap - we should've shot it in the head and moved to our own library much sooner22:14
Robot101which we actually did in 2009 but it wasn't mature in time for the N90022:14
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Robot101it works much better on the N9 ...? :)22:14
zaccanastahi guys22:14
freddddSend me one. =U22:14
freddddN9 has no keyboard, right.22:14
freddddNo, thank you.22:14
freddddI would not even want one for free in that case.22:15
zaccanastai have problems with megavideo and n90022:15
Robot101well given I don't even have scratchbox installed any more, it's pretty hard for me to patch this for you22:15
Robot101I dunno if someone here has the maemo 5 SDK installed and feels generous22:15
freddddIf it was not proprietary I would.22:16
zaccanastai installed flash player 10 but nothing22:16
freddddI do not have a GNU/Linux setup devoted to installing proprietary software on.22:16
Robot101er - scratchbox itself is free - it's just some bits in the SDK to support the device which are closed22:16
Robot101curiouser and curiouser...22:17
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freddddThe distribution I use has scratchbox2 available.22:17
Robot101oh, don't even try that. you'll go mad. the SDK and scratchbox are way too interdependent.22:17
Robot101you need to feed the right toolchain version into scratchbox from the outside and bla bla bla22:18
Robot101it's all a bit insane22:18
freddddSo you developed the Nokia N900?22:18
freddddI demand answers.22:19
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freddddWhere were you when those business managers deserved a good smack in their face for ditching Maemo!? >:L22:21
freddddOr were you that guy.22:21
freddddIf so.22:21
* fredddd smacks22:21
freddddIf not, I take back my smack.22:21
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zaccanastai have problems with megavideo and n90022:32
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MrOppositehi, I've got a problem. I can't place my n900 in upgrade/reflash mode. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, maybe it's because of I put it in R&D-mode prior to the breakdown. any ideas?22:33
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MrOppositeThe procedure to putting the device in upgrade/reflash mode is pressing u while connecting the usb-cable after the device has been shut down?22:34
Robot101fredddd: I was not that guy22:37
Robot101fredddd: I'm one of the founders of Collabora (
freddddI see.22:38
Robot101fredddd: we're an open source consultancy, we did a bunch of stuff for the N900 and N9 including working on the desktop and widget set (more in the N900 than N9), graphics drivers, multimedia framework (GStreamer), im/voip/cellular (Telepathy), contacts, general performance/architecture/"SWAT" team bugfixing, etc...22:38
Robot101unfortunately for us we can't make our own products, so we have to go along with what our clients decide22:39
freddddSo if you were to want it, you could, push through a fix?22:39
freddddBut only if you had the SDK installed?22:39
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Robot101Nokia won't put any updates out for the N900 any more22:40
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freddddI would be willing to boot up a virtual machine with the requirements and if you could guide me.22:40
freddddGet it done.22:40
freddddNo, Nokia would not, but there is CSSU.22:40
Robot101ah right - well yes you can push something out through CSSU if you patched loudmouth22:40
Robot101what's puzzling me is precisely why it didn't work22:40
Robot101you can maybe help by catching a log on the device22:41
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freddddSure, I am up for it just give me the instructions and I will follow them.22:41
Robot101I can't actually remember how to set up the SDK, I'm just a poor PHB now :)22:41
Robot101to get a log, let me find some instructions22:42
Robot101you need to install the SDK - best is a 32-bit Debian or Ubuntu distribution22:43
Robot101Debian stable would do fine I guess22:44
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NIN101MrOpposite: Turning the device off, starting the flasher and then connecting the cable should be enough. Basically everything is described in
Robot101fredddd: to get a log, disable all your IM accounts & open a terminal, killall telepathy-gabble22:48
Robot101fredddd: then run LM_DEBUG=all GABBLE_DEBUG=all GABBLE_PERSIST=1 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble 2>&1 | tee gabble.log22:48
Robot101fredddd: then edit your XMPP account and clear any weird ignore ssl / old ssl / manual server / etc setting, and enable the account22:49
Robot101fredddd: then it will fail, you should get a bunch of stuff in the terminal also saved to gabble.log. you can disable the account again then ctrl+c that, and put the file online somewhere22:50
Robot101(check first it doesn't contain your password :D)22:50
freddddOk, hold on, reading through it.22:51
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freddddGrabbing Debian, then going to perform the log things.22:52
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MrOppositeI figured it out22:59
MrOppositeStupid win722:59
MrOppositethanks NIN10122:59
MrOppositeBah, stupid old flashing-tool23:00
MrOppositeon linux I needed to downgrade my libusb23:00
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MrOppositeanyway I tested the flasher just now, and it worked23:00
freddddRobot101, killall: telepathy-gabble: no process killed23:01
freddddI need to be root?23:02
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Robot101fredddd: nope I guess it's not running - should be fine to proceed23:02
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freddddRobot101, these variables you are making me set, you do know how to revert them right? :323:03
freddddI do not want to run in debug mode all the time.23:03
freddddOr are they temporary?23:04
freddddOnly for the started instance?23:05
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MrOppositeI managed to reflash my kernel without reflashing the whole phone23:07
* MrOpposite is happy23:07
MrOppositeUhm, sortof wrong channel23:07
Robot101fredddd: it will just set it for the started instance23:07
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freddddRobot101, do you have any clue where I could move the log to so it would be available when I plug it into my computer?23:12
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trampShould I get a bluetooth keyboard and a bluetooth mouse, a BT keyboard and a USB mouse, or a USB keyboard and a BT mouse?23:42
keriotramp: yes23:42
kerioor neither23:42
trampOr neither I suppose.23:43
trampIf both were BT, I could charge at the same time, or use a flashdrive.23:44
freddddGet a desktop.23:44
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freddddDo not turn your mobile device into one, just get one.23:45
keriotramp: is this for the n900?23:45
trampkerio: Yes.23:45
keriotramp: hahahahahahahahaha23:45
trampfredddd: The desktop isn't fitting in my pocket.23:45
freddddNeither is that keyboard and mouse.23:45
keriofredddd: a stowaway bt keyboard does!23:45
freddddHey, be on my side here! :<23:46
freddddAnyway, I think you should sway more to a tablet PC with a keyboard and/or mouse, for what you need.23:46
trampBut your side is wrong..23:46
keriothe n900 is a poor excuse for a desktop anyway23:46
freddddHey, there is not what the enemy side should be saying!23:46
kerioyou'd want an openpandora for that23:46
freddddWe say the same about you! x323:46
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trampfredddd: Hmm, but a tablet pc can't do what an N900 can.23:47
freddddChristmas truce/23:47
freddddLet us play with a ball.23:47
freddddAnd forget about our war arguments.23:47
trampHow boring.23:47
trampHow about war.23:47
freddddSo wait, what do you do on your N900.23:48
trampAnyway, wouldn't the N900 work fine as a desktop in EasyDebian23:48
freddddThat pleases for yourself to have a mouse and keyboard on it?23:48
trampWhen I'm mobile I do everything on my N900.23:48
freddddDo you develop your software on it or something.23:49
freddddAnd you be sitting on a train with keyboard and mouse out, or what?23:49
trampfredddd: Yes!23:49
freddddI am going to stay out of this one from here on.23:49
trampI have written some software on it, but I don't prefer it.23:49
trampNo train.23:50
trampWith a keyboard, I could modify the phone faster.23:50
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freddddHave fun.23:53
trampSo you mean to say it's a bad idea and waste of time, but you're too afraid to say so.23:54
freddddI like cake.23:54
freddddAnd that is all I will state.23:54
freddddBut you do not see me turning my N900 into a cake baking oven, now do you? :c23:55
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trampI presumed it was only for lack of ability.23:55
freddddAre you questioning my cake baking abilities here?23:56
freddddBecause if so, you might very well be right.23:56
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trampMerely raising the question23:56
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trampStargus and other games would play better on a keyboard.23:58
freddddThat is because they were not designed for mobile devices.23:58
trampI know, if only they were designed for mobile devices.23:58
freddddYeah ... =/23:59
freddddHow much I like the idea of using your mobile phone for everything.23:59
freddddSadly, to me, it does not sound realistically.23:59
trumeeRobot101: did your guys make any progress with the MWI support?23:59
freddddSome manufacturers try to pack a gaming device into a mobile phone device, and well, for many of us, we can not even mention the name of any such device.23:59

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