IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-11-17

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Macerwow see... now i opened conversations and i have contacts mixed up00:27
Macerone is a gvoice txt that is for one contact but showing the info from another00:28
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xqowhat is the general opinion about the N9? is it everything we hoped?03:13
xqooh wait n9 is meego isnt it03:14
NIN101it is harmattan, not the meego known from or so.03:15
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Robot101xqo: its a really nice phone03:18
Robot101*really* nice, much more polished than the N90003:18
xqo<SpeedEvil> If you're happy with a phone that is way more locked-down than the n900, with no opportunity to change kernel or add modules, or moduify system scripts, then fine.03:18
Robot101xqo: it's harder to do "general linux" stuff on there - its locked quite a lot as SpeedEvil says (said?)03:18
luke-jrif I wanted a phone, I'd use Android03:19
Robot101but as a consumer product, and I can turn on a terminal and ssh to my IRC, I am so happy with it03:19
luke-jrRobot101: Android can too03:19
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SpeedEvilIt's a nice consumer product.03:19
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SpeedEvilBut the product can't be polished by external devs to nearly the same extent that the n900 can.03:19
Robot101luke-jr: yeah, but we worked a lot more on the N9 than Android. Google can suck my nuts - at least Nokia were trying to do something with real OSS.03:20
luke-jrRobot101: Free software != we do all the work for no gain03:20
Robot101I'm sorry to say it, but #maemo didn't make the N903:21
nox-there should just be a knob to turn this aegis stuff off...03:21
xqoso where do you go if you want a real opensource phone that is also a nice consumer product?03:22
Robot101nox-: there was meant to be, an open mode which disabled certain apps / features - I knew when that was promised it wouldn't happen though :/03:22
Robot101xqo: utopia :(03:22
Robot101openmoko freerunner was too much opensource and not enough competent product management03:22
Robot101there were 3 partly done platforms03:22
xqoi actually ahve that, Robot10103:22
Robot101people rewriting stuff all over the place03:22
xqobut it cant be used as a phone03:23
luke-jrxqo: phones suck anyway03:23
Robot101nobody who actually sat on top and said MAKE ONE THING. MAKE IT GOOD. MAKE GSM PHONE CALLS WORK BEFORE YOU PORT ASTERISK TO IT.03:23
Robot101geeks can't make a nice product on their own. they need designers and some management. :)03:23
luke-jrRobot101: nonsense03:23
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luke-jrgive us the hardware and specs, and we will make a platform far superior to anything the commercial industry has03:24
Robot101that happened with freerunner, right? oh wait... no.03:24
Robot101superior by your criteria, not by any normal people's standards. geeks will make it work as well as they want and then stop.03:24
xqoRobot101, theres another phone coming in the spirit of openmoko. GTA0403:24
xqoaccording to #meego03:25
Robot101it's like KDE and GNOME both needed huge influx of corporate investment and designers to actually start to become usable, with accessibility, design, usabilities studies, polish, etc03:25
Robot101note: they also stayed real OSS projects when this happened03:25
Robot101but they weren't made by geeks alone03:25
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luke-jrxqo: last I heard, GTA04 was crap03:25
luke-jrRobot101: KDE and GNOME both suck for the last few years, far worse than they used to03:26
Robot101luke-jr: see previous - your criteria don't match other people's.03:26
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luke-jrI beg to differ03:26
luke-jr"Address book doesn't work at all" I think would be a problem for most other people too03:27
luke-jrditto for "everything crashes more"03:27
Robot101ubuntu has taken GNOME to millions of users now03:27
Robot101the address book and "everything" doesn't crash03:27
luke-jrUbuntu has abandoned GNOME03:27
luke-jrKAddressBook doesn't *work*03:27
luke-jrand everything useful *does* crash too often03:27
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Robot101Ubuntu uses millions of lines of code from GNOME - but admittedly they have started making it worse. but this is orthogonal to my point.03:28
luke-jrnot sure you can get much worse than GNOME03:28
Robot101these OSS projects were improved and made more popular by corporate investment which brought design, management and focused investment towards specific goals03:28
pabs3luke-jr: whats crap in gta04 (apart from the fsf/wireless stupidity)?03:28
luke-jrpabs3: hardware specs03:28
Robot101without this, it's far less likely you will get "generally usable" popular software as a result03:29
pabs3luke-jr: its an improvement on gta02, so better than nothing IMO03:29
M4rtinKpabs3: IIRC the hardware should be about on Beagleboard/N900 level03:29
M4rtinK+ integrated navigation board (
M4rtinKwith FreeRunner LCD (480*640) and case03:30
M4rtinKand an optional 1.3 MPix camera03:31
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luke-jrpabs3: maybe, but I don't want a phone.03:32
luke-jr1.3 mpix is crap03:32
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M4rtinKwell, to call IT a phone :)03:35
M4rtinKit should be Open Hardware, go rip some camera from an Iphone and install it yourself :P03:35
luke-jrtbh, I'd prefer 12 mpix from my next handheld03:36
luke-jrbut no less than 803:36
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DocScrutinizertbh that'S plain insane as SpeedEvil can explain to you using basic optic physical laws04:20
SpeedEvilIt's not.04:21
SpeedEvilIt's quite possible.04:21
SpeedEvilIt will however mean a fairly large lens, if you want it to be a real 12MP.04:21
DocScrutinizerwhile it's even common knowledge now that a lot of lesser-pixel cams have better picture quality than the 10+ class04:21
SpeedEvilAnd that implies things about the depth of the camera.04:21
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SpeedEvilWhat would be awesome would be a camera that was able to maintain a sharp image when moving somewhat.04:22
DocScrutinizerbuzzword noise, sensitivity04:22
SpeedEvilWhich implies things about the sensor.04:23
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DocScrutinizerand yes, I referred to a cam module to fit into an ever slimmer mobile phone04:23
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DocScrutinizerobviously a hasselblad 25mp is better in every aspect than a 12mp embedded module - simply because of physical size of *everything* in it04:24
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DocScrutinizerand you can't get reasonable 20mp in a phone as flat as N904:25
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M4rtinKwell, the Neo case is thick enough :)04:38
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befordI want n9 :C05:01
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luke-jrbeford: I don't.05:02
befordgive me yours05:02
luke-jrdon't have one.05:02
luke-jralso, just because I don't want one doesn't mean I wouldn't put it to good use if I had one :p05:03
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jonwilNo cellphone I know of can have a lens and sensor size good enough to beat even a low-mid tier digital camera without making the phone too fat05:05
befordhaha, yea, well I am not even sure if I should get one, so hopefully the n900 will stay with me for a while05:05
luke-jrjonwil: phones suck.05:06
luke-jrif it fits in my pocket, it's not too fat.05:06
luke-jr… well ok, I need to be able to type with one hand too05:07
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SpeedEviljonwil: I disagree05:20
SpeedEvilluke-jr: just said that05:20
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sat2050checking it now thx08:36
sat2050but i want to use emmc08:36
sat2050and i am thinking of a way to access it without booting08:36
* psycho_oreos guesses its something similar to either a chroot setup or a virtualised environment. Neither of which are possible08:38
* DocScrutinizer is tempted to say "use eMMC? sure, we all like to use it. Access it without booting? Now *that* was a nice trick really!"08:39
psycho_oreosthis is why a spare N900 comes in handy :) You won't have to worry about the lack of `phones'08:42
hiemanshunot everyone has monies for spare phones08:42
sat2050i hv a spare one right now08:43
sat2050and i want to experiment a little since i have never worked on arm devices before08:43
psycho_oreoscontrary, you could just pick up a dump phone at a very cheap price, chuck the SIM card in and voila! you won't have to worry about your N900 not being able to make/receive calls/SMS, etc08:43
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: contrary, you could just pick up a dumb phone at a very cheap price, chuck the SIM card in and voila! you won't have to worry about your N900 not being able to make/receive calls/SMS, etc08:44
sat2050i am not worried about making calls and sms08:44
sat2050i hv a phone for that08:44
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sat2050do we have an architecture document08:45
DocScrutinizerTI has08:45
DocScrutinizercourtesy humble me and SpeedEvil, mostly08:47
sat2050awesome thx08:48
sat2050should have searched before posting sorry08:48
jonwilbah, my N900 work is going nowhere. The connectivity UI logic is just too complex to clone, as is the certificate manager dialogs library and the nokia maps stuff :(08:49
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psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool, tried something like queenbeecon widget or desktop execution widget?08:54
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fluxjonwil, you have an n900 rewrite project going on?09:04
jonwilno, I am cloning specific useful bits of code09:04
jonwilwhere there is benefit to changing things09:04
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LaoLang_coolpsycho_oreos: thank you! Reading it09:05
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BigWookieHey anyone knows a command to turn on the flashlight on the n900 via command line09:07
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BigWookieI can't physically access the n900 but I stream the webcam and the light is off...09:08
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LaoLang_coolI'm using ash as my interative shell, how to define commands to run at start-up, is it possible?09:12
jabisBigWookie: I think you can start it with " /etc/init.d/flashlight-extra start " to the terminal, but I'm unsure whether it will disable your stream09:13
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BigWookiejabis: do I have to install an application for it or can I controll it via dbus?09:14
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psycho_oreosI think upstart handles init stuff LaoLang_cool but I have had issues getting basic things to work. If that doesn't work maybe using the legacy rc way might09:14
jabisBigWookie: I thought you were talking 'bout the flashlight app x)09:16
LaoLang_coolpsycho_oreos: I mean to run commands at the starts up of ash, not of the OS09:16
BigWookiejabis: I meant the torch on the back itself09:16
LaoLang_coolsay, when I start ash, the screen will run automatically09:17
DocScrutinizerBigWookie: I don't think this flashlight-extra will pan out. You might want to have a look into lfocus (or similar) python app though09:17
psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool, umm ash gets startup pretty much at boot time.. Unless you meant when you for instance when you open up x-terminal09:17
LaoLang_coolpsycho_oreos: yes, I mean it, you understand me, thank you ;p09:18
LaoLang_coolwhen I open a x-term, some commands can be run automatically.09:18
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: not really09:19
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psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool, its been awhile since I last used ash, it might be .local or .rc iinm I personally use bash these days09:21
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, well true, but heck it still gets loaded up fairly early :)09:21
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DocScrutinizerLaoLang_cool: it's like every other shell, either ~/.profile or ~/.login or ~/bashrc or some other file like that09:22
jabisoh - Doc beat me to it x)09:22
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psycho_oreosheh .bashrc is for bash imo09:23
psycho_oreosahh crap *slaps self in forehead* yeah .profile09:23
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: thanks, it works, thank you psycho_oreos too09:23
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: you won't believe it, friggin messybox uses .bashrc too09:23
vdvhow can i enable filters in Hildon Menu? i use qt09:24
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, that's news :/ ah well I stopped using ash for quite awhile now.. sometimes I really cannot stand how it lacks the ability to glob entities09:24
BigWookieDocScrutinizer, jabis : already found the solution in the lfocus package :) thanks, but now I can't reach the n900 anymore xD09:25
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils09:25
psycho_oreosthough lol busybox is different otoh, it provides tools other than just ash. Ok I'll admit that busybox is crap in general but for every other sense it really has all these extra tools which may come in handy when you're stuck in a bind09:26
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DocScrutinizernone of those tools really is a full replacement for the original bit in unix toolbox09:28
DocScrutinizertry ps09:28
DocScrutinizertry top09:28
DocScrutinizertry ls09:29
DocScrutinizertry <younameit>09:29
psycho_oreoswell no I meant other tools lol, busybox-power provides many tools though09:29
DocScrutinizerbusybox ps --help :-(09:30
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DocScrutinizeroptions: <none>, easy to memorize09:30
DocScrutinizerhonestly you don't want to use messybox as an interactive shell09:31
psycho_oreosyou have to before you install bash for instance :D09:32
DocScrutinizerwell, I can install bash from HAM ;-P09:32
DocScrutinizerbut I still will have to use messybox to start bash, or set it as default09:33
DocScrutinizerwon't change the result of ps --help though, as that's still messy then09:34
DocScrutinizerso you probably want a number of other basic pkgs as well, like coreutils, procps, less, whatnot else09:35
psycho_oreosor you could just install bm and not worry about ash ;) though if you screw up your kernel, bootloader otoh :D09:35
* DocScrutinizer yawns and points at09:36
infobotwell, jrtools is
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LaoLang_coolThe function of task in n900 is too limited...10:00
LaoLang_coolI even can't add note for it10:00
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Maceridling the n900 looks like it can last 2-3 days10:26
Siceloeven longer10:26
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Maceri never tried it. ;) i always have to mess with it10:27
Siceloi 'controlled' my use one time ago, lasted 3 days10:27
Macerno use at all?10:28
Sicelobut idling completely.. you are looking at at least 5 days.. i forget how long SpeedEvil, or ShadowJK idled theirs10:28
Siceloabout 8 days iinm10:28
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Siceloon idle, mine (with PK47) consumes about 4-5mA. my battery is around 1400mAh, so at idle, that equates to around 240 hours, 10 days ;)10:30
Sicelono, 280 :P10:31
psycho_oreos 18:32pm  up 83 days 15:11,  0 users,  load average: 0.61, 0.30, 0.1110:32
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Siceloit's adhoc wifi and the lcd that seem to be the biggest power-hogs, at least based on my usage patterns. i find it interesting that radio uses more power than playing music10:32
Sicelowow psycho_oreos \0/10:32
psycho_oreosSicelo, ok ok I lied, I have that N900 on permanent charge lol10:33
Siceloi understand's the uptime that's impressive..max i have achieved so far is about 8 days uptime.. but then, N900 is my primary device10:34
psycho_oreosheh I have my N900 as my primary and my spare device as well (I actually have three N900 fyi). Though my primary N900 gets sluggish after 4 days of normal usage, so sluggish that I'm tempted to reboot the damn thing. ShadowJK mentioned that it was to do with the fragmentation of the swap file and suggested a workaround but I have yet to properly try the workaround10:36
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Sicelomaking me envious, lol10:37
psycho_oreosI have a photo as a teaser on my tmo signature :D10:37
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vdvif i set Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation Attribute on top level widget, rotation occurs, but when i tap in text field to type some text it switches to landscape mode and only then shows keyboard, i.e. on-screen keyboard doesn't work in portrait mode. how can fix that?10:51
woldrichpsycho_oreos, yeah? my current n900 have an uptime of 96 days10:52
psycho_oreoswoldrich, spare or primary? lol10:52
LaoLang_coollock code has to be at least 5 char, too long...10:52
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LaoLang_coolI don't care the security much, two width is enough for me10:53
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woldrichpsycho_oreos, well it's the primary one, but I seldom go outside, so it's connected to the computer and charging 90% of the day. is that cheating? :p10:53
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psycho_oreoswoldrich, heh not cheating but you haven't printed that uptime string ;)10:54
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woldrichwhen I use it I mostly use it from another computer over ssh :(10:56
woldrich(Real Keyboard)++10:56
woldrichit's fairly easy to make it unstable enough to crasch by spawning some random gui apps10:57
psycho_oreosI wouldn't deem those as cheating, heck I hardly use my spare over prolonged periods. My other excuse for not using its keyboard is that I don't want the paint from the keys to drop10:57
psycho_oreosmy primary N900 has an aftermarket keyboard fyi10:58
woldrichwhat does that mean?10:58
* woldrich have no idea but is already jealous10:58
psycho_oreosmeaning that its not original, not by nokia :)10:58
psycho_oreosI bet the keyboard was meant to be for replacing fake N900 keyboard pads, but oh well10:59
psycho_oreosnah its the actual keyboard pad on the N900, like when you flip your keyboard out from the device10:59
woldrichI see10:59
psycho_oreosnothing special, just the original keyboard pad had some paint falling off and as a result the backlight LED are annoying when your tapping away at night in a dark area11:00
Macerpsycho_oreos: my old one had the same problem11:00
Macerand i am sure my new one will as well11:01
Maceri need a couple spares11:01
psycho_oreosMacer, you ever replaced it with an aftermarket for your old one or you never bothered?11:01
Macerthe paint fades from clacking on it11:01
Maceri never bothered11:01
SpeedEvilhmm - me too.11:01
Macerit broke before i did ;)11:01
Maceri was just about to11:01
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psycho_oreosI'm trying my best to avoid using hardware keyboard but its just too tempting lol.. whenever touching the warm screen gives you that weird fuzzy feeling simply doesn't turn you on ;) *hint to those N9 lovers who think hardware keyboard is never needed*11:02
Maceri can't do without the qwerty11:03
Maceri am going to order some spares soon11:03
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Maceri am sure they are fake11:03
psycho_oreosbetter fake than none :D11:03
Macerright now i just dropped $800 on 4 3TB hard drives11:03
Macerthat should have cost 600-70011:03
Macerpsycho_oreos: true11:04
Macerespecially since there probably arent too many people making them anymore11:04
psycho_oreosfor now I resort to using SSH over wifi and even touchscreen inputs whenever possible with my N90011:04
Maceri had to return my cover s well11:04
Macerthe molding was off11:05
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Macer$20 for messed up molding?11:05
Macercmon china!11:05
psycho_oreosMacer, heh who knows, with the fake N900 being sold, I'm sure there might just be a little push for demand every so often for spare cloned parts ;)11:05
Macerbe for real!11:05
Macerfake ones?11:05
Macerdo they work?11:05
psycho_oreosof course they do (according to pictures) but obviously they don11:06
psycho_oreosdon't run maemo, etc11:06
Maceri would buy a fake one if it worked11:06
Macerthat sucks11:06
woldrichwhat $800 for 12T?11:06
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woldrichwhere the hell do you live sir?11:06
Macerthose are the symbian hacked ones?11:06
Macerwoldrich: chicago?11:06
Maceri thought it was expensive11:07
woldrichis shit that expensive in the states11:07
Maceri am paying for taiwan to pump water :-P11:07
Macerit is now11:07
psycho_oreosthere has never been a fake N900 sold with maemo on it afaik.. even if the seller deliberately placed fake maemo OS screenshots, the actual device would never be capable enough to run it11:07
Macerit should have cost 600-70011:07
Macernot 80011:08
Macerpsycho_oreos: so not omap insides?11:08
psycho_oreosfyi its Thailand that was flooded not Taiwan11:08
Macerjust cheap old phone hw thrown int an n900 case11:08
psycho_oreosMacer, I don't know the technicality of the fake N900 neither would I care about fake N900. They're never interesting to ponder too much about in the first place11:09
Macerit is taiwan11:09
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SpeedEvilThe dual-SIM harware may be interesting.11:09
SpeedEvilAlso TV receiver. (though that's turned off here now)11:09
MacerSpeedEvil: haha11:10
Macerbetter features than an original!11:10
Macernobody cares about thailand11:11
Macertaiwan has all the WD factories11:11
psycho_oreosMacer, seems like lower part got hit :þ11:11
Macerthe western part11:11
* psycho_oreos points his seagate was made in thailand :þ11:11
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Macerthat is why seagate stock is up 80%11:11
SpeedEvilAnd why I'm preparing my spare HDs for ebay.11:12
Macerthey say it will take almost a year for prices to come back down11:12
woldrichMacer, you'll get 12T for $600 here :p11:12
Macerwoldrich: lol.. well.. not here ;)11:12
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Maceri got it for 80011:12
woldrichI have 29T, I've spent around $3500 on it11:13
Macerwhich is cheap now11:13
woldrichover 3-4 years of time, of course11:13
Macertypical 3TB drive is 25011:13
Macerand those are the crappy ones11:14
Macerso you know the ones i got are horrible11:14
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woldrichyeah all but 3 of mine are, damdadam, external11:14
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woldrichthey're quite sexy, too11:14
MacerWD 5400 "green"11:14
woldrichmost of them are11:14
woldrichin wd elements casing.11:14
Macerwell.. i have a synology ds411j11:15
Macerneeds 4 internal drives11:15
Maceri wouldn't do externals :)11:16
Macerright now i have this retardedly oversized 10 hard drive dual opteron11:16
woldrich , some of the mess :p11:17
SpeedEvilI have my external drives in a drawer.11:17
SpeedEvilAlong with a PSU11:17
woldrichmy house would burn down again11:17
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Maceromg lol!11:18
Macerthat is why i don't use external drives?11:18
Macerthat poor chess board!11:18
Macerthat is why11:19
Macer12TB in that little nas11:20
woldrichI dig your hires photo11:20
woldrichlooks like a toaster, a smaller toaster, a wrt54gl and my desktop computer11:20
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Maceryeah.. i am going to use that old server as a workstation11:21
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Macerafter replacing it with that little synology11:21
woldrichmy server is also hugely overkill. But what the fuck, I have 4 of these computers and I have no idea what I should *do* with all of them11:22
woldrichI only intended to buy 211:22
Maceri had that problem... best to sell them or throw them out11:22
woldrichI guess :(11:22
Maceri finally came to terms and threw out a lot of my horded stuff11:23
Macerlike the sb1611:23
woldrichyou should see my warddrobes11:23
Macerthe AT psu11:23
woldrich(no clothes)11:23
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woldrichsb16? oh please11:23
woldrichI still have all the atari 800XL perheperials11:23
woldrichuh that spelling doesn't look good11:24
Macerheh... my 200MHz pentium cpus11:24
woldrichhmm I have some freak of a dual voodoo 2 thingy11:24
Macerwhoa! lol11:24
Macervoodoo2 was way ahead of its time :)11:25
woldrichit's two physical voodoo2s with a cable11:25
Maceri had some11:25
SpeedEvilAWE32 I still have somewhere11:25
Macerwith the small ribbon cable to connect them11:25
MacerSpeedEvil: the worst ever was the fking mwave11:25
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Maceri used to beat my head on a desk messing with those things11:25
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woldrichHERE SHE IS
Macerbut yeah. i come to terms every 7 years or so11:26
Macerand throw the old stuff out11:27
woldrichcan not throw her out, she's my childhood11:27
Macermeh. :) humans are meant to grow up11:27
woldrichfuck you :)11:27
SpeedEvilMy oldest operating computer is a Z88.11:28
SpeedEvilA Z80 'laptop'11:28
SpeedEvilStill boots, with 4AA cells.11:28
woldrichSpeedEvil, that looks awesome11:29
SpeedEvilAnd has a better keyboard than the n9.11:29
woldrichobviously :p11:29
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woldrich this is so badass11:30
Macerwow... that thing was ahead of its time11:30
Macersuper twisted lcd!11:31
Sicelopsycho_oreos: saw your pics now. all charged, all full, and all cool :P11:31
MacerSpeedEvil: external UV light?11:32
Macerto wipe eproms? :)11:32
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Macerso... a twofor?11:33
Macerget a tan while wiping eproms?11:34
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SpeedEvilIt's hard UB, teh ultra-carcunogenic stuff11:34
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psycho_oreosSicelo, heh, though I'm sure there's always other cooler people out there :þ i.e. those with N950 ._.11:45
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Macerpsycho_oreos: i am thinking n950s are urban legend11:56
psycho_oreosMacer, as much as you like to deny it, they do exist11:57
Macerlike aliens? :)11:57
psycho_oreoslike gods11:58
Macerhahaha... touche11:59
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* hiemanshu admires his N95011:59
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jonwilmerlin1991: ping12:05
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fluxcan N900 firmware be downgraded?12:13
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jacekowskinot that anybody want to12:14
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fluxwell, a friend said the latest firmware was broken. but I think I'll just tell him to reflash and perhaps consider CSSU.12:17
fluxI mean't firmware->OTA upgrade12:17
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jonwilyes, my Cell Broadcast SMS widget is almost to the point where its ready for CSSU12:52
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merlin1991jonwil pong13:43
merlin1991I guess you wanted to ask about the applet, will be done today13:43
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jonwilI took a look at it earlier and figured it out myself14:01
jonwilhaving found an example I could study (CSSU notification light applet)14:01
jonwilit works great14:01
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merlin1991great :)14:04
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jonwilnow I have run out of things to work on :(14:45
jonwilmy attempts to clone the certificate manager control panel went nowhere14:47
jonwilas has all my work on the connectivity UI widgets (like the internet status bar item and the "14:47
jonwilthe "phone" control panel14:47
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ruskie <-- lol14:47
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Palijonwil: what about asking author of certificate manager control panel for help?14:50
jonwilThe evidence from the bug suggest that the 0.0.9 code shouldn't have been released and that we shouldn't expect more code14:51
merlin1991could you paste the bug # again14:51
merlin1991I'd like to follow it14:51
povbotBug 12388: Missing source code of certificate control panel applet14:52
ruskie <-- interesting14:52
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jonwilI doubt we will see any further usefull on that bug myself :P14:52
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corecodeis it true that there is no xmpp for harmattan?15:04
corecodeah sorry, wrong #15:04
Maceris it? :)15:05
dm8tbrworks for me just fine. next!15:05
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merlin1991how do I add a user to scratchbox?15:13
merlin1991ah found it /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser15:14
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* jonwil doubts that asking anyone at Nokia for N900 code of any sort is going to get us anywhere15:17
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* jonwil doubts that asking even for n9[50] code would help15:20
jonwiltop of my wishlist would be a dev package for libconnui and libconnui_cell :P15:23
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jonwilwith just a few packages, I could blow this thing right open and do some serious stuff to it :)15:26
jonwilbut talking about it in IRC wont help, the only way I am going to get what I need is to dig even deeper with IDA and GDB and hope I can figure this crap out :'(15:27
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* jonwil just found something really cool16:09
jonwilIf you do apt-get install cellmo-headers on the phone you get some NICE header files to look at :)16:10
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jonwiloh wait, those headers match the headers I already found before elsewhere :P16:13
jonwilso they arent new16:13
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jonwilbah, I think I have exhausted all possibility to figure out how to use libconnui, libconnui_cell and the dbus calls that they use to do their work :( Only hope is for a miracle to occur and for Nokia to publish some things16:25
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DocScrutinizerdang, #meego is still 31 users ahead of #maemo, though last night (CET) #meego had less users than #maemo has now ;-D17:17
nealare you aint-meego?17:18
* DocScrutinizer should consider cleaning up his autojoin XD17:18
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ShadowJKthis channel has more conversation though17:35
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merlin1991far more :P17:39
merlin1991though we like to got way ot here :D17:39
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DocScrutinizermmmmk, definitely OT, but some of you might find it interesting (Goldelico GTA04 hardware)
DocScrutinizerI'm joining the devel team, if that matters in any way17:46
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: can you summarize in short what it actually is?17:47
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DocScrutinizera omap3530 based kbd-less smartphone17:47
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merlin1991does omap3530 have a gpu (drivers)17:48
DocScrutinizererr, does N900?17:48
nealDocScrutinizer: What changed your mind?17:48
merlin1991gpu yes, closed drivers yes17:48
* merlin1991 didn't remember n900 is omap353017:49
DocScrutinizerneal: hehe, they asked me to finally "join core team"17:49
neal<neal> DocScrutinizer: What's your take on gta04? <DocScrutinizer> neal: :shrug: <DocScrutinizer> neal: on GTA01/02 we did PV runs with a number of devices the number of GTA04 available to order17:49
nealsounds better than ericson17:49
DocScrutinizernah, that's voluntary17:50
DocScrutinizeraka free of dotations17:50
ShadowJKis there an irc channel17:50
DocScrutinizerexcept a device of course17:50
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: alas not17:50
ShadowJKThat's some serious amount of sensors17:51
DocScrutinizeryoh :-D17:51
nealShadowJK: #gta04 on freenode17:51
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: anyway, I guess best contacts are via #openmoko-cdevel17:53
ShadowJKhow goes with the plans to print cases? :D17:54
RaeCarruthhey all, is there a workaround that will enable me to use whatsapp?17:54
SpeedEvilI wish they hadn't gone with the gta02 case.17:54
RaeCarruthi ask because a number of my iphone toting pals use it17:54
DocScrutinizerhaven't heard about such plans17:54
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ^ack17:54
DocScrutinizerdefinitely a poor decision17:55
dangergrrlvncviewer is bad news17:55
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Sicelou got a job DocScrutinizer?18:01
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DocScrutinizerSicelo: I might start LTE modem development18:02
Sicelobig ups ;) all the best18:02
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Sicelohey gvUser10118:05
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Z3ROC00Lhello people need some help "again" lol im trying to run SET via desktop shortcut and faced with this error File "/home/user/set/./set", line 68, in <module>18:13
Z3ROC00Lanybody have a clue what it means ??18:14
Z3ROC00Lfull error is File "/home/user/set/./set", line 68, in <module>18:15
Z3ROC00Ltraceback (most recent call last):File "/home/user/set/./set"  filewrite = file("src/agreement", "w") IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'src/agreement' ..., line 68, in <module>18:16
mgedminit means there's no file or directory called 'src/agreement'18:17
mgedminit's a relative pathname, so probably it expects the current working directory to be a rather specific place18:17
mgedminand if you're running it from a desktop file, most likely the working directory is not what it expects18:17
mgedminyou can specify a working directory in the .desktop file, so I suggest you do that18:17
mgedminwhat is SET anyway?18:17
Z3ROC00Lsorry im using queenbeecon to run it18:19
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Z3ROC00LThe Social-Engineer Toolkit (SET)18:20
Z3ROC00Lhow would i go about setting the working directory using queenbeeon aany ideas18:21
mgedminI've no idea what queenbeecon is18:21
Z3ROC00Lits a customisable widget for n900 , great app ...18:22
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Z3ROC00Lthanks anyways mgedmin18:26
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mgedminZ3ROC00L, you can always create a wrapper shell script to cd /somewhere; ./someapp, and use your launcher to launch that18:29
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Shapeshifter"Internal Error, application E-Mail closed" sure is one of my favourites19:01
Shapeshifterseems like someone didn't write his tests.19:01
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Z3ROC00L@mgedmin just tryed that now , and im faced with same error ...19:04
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badcloudhow do I get symbols ike '-' and '/' to work in easy debian v3d?19:47
badcloudI commented out lines to make stiky keys work (and they do)19:47
badcloudbut instead of '-', I get Meta + f19:47
badcloudsorry for possible repost (got disconnected)19:48
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r00t|homebadcloud: don't see your previous attempt, unless it was more than a day ago19:50
r00t|homebut no idea on your question... i'd suspect some keymap issue...19:50
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badcloudr00t|home: I activated sticky keys using this method
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r00t|homei didn't even install debian yet19:51
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badcloudwhat is the menu hardware key?20:03
Gh0stythe key that normally shows you the menu? :p20:06
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Gh0styin the middle that square key thingy20:06
badcloudGh0sty: oh, ok20:06
badcloudI thought that was the power b20:06
Gh0styalso if you push long enough? :p20:06
badcloudGh0sty: yep20:07
badclouddidn't know it had a menu function as well20:07
Gh0stywait what? :p20:07
badcloudGh0sty: nevermind20:07
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nicofsI can't run the latest maemo 5 update because app manager claims i lack enough space. but i still have about 1GB left on my rootfs - what's wrong? any ideas?20:49
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luke-jrnicofs: you don't have 1 GB on rootfs to *start with*20:50
luke-jrrootfs is 227 MB total20:51
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nicofshmm... it was just something file manager said - anyway, the update is 384kB and i recently deinstalled chromium with 90MB and other apps... i just don't see how there is not enough space...20:54
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nicofsfile manager talks about "space for installable apps" so i guess that means the /opt thing...20:55
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mgedminnicofs, protip: temporarily disable all 3rd party app repositories20:59
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mgedminthe package lists in /var take up a lot of space on the 200-meg rootfs20:59
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nicofsmgedmin how can i check how much space is left?21:01
* mgedmin <-- command line geek; df in an xterm21:01
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nicofsmgedmin it claims 27MB available... that's not enough for 284kB update?21:03
SpeedEvil284>27. Clearly no.21:04
mgedminif the 284kB update means it's going to replace a 17 MB package with a (17 MB + 284 kB) package, then 27 MB will not be enough to hold both during the update21:04
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mgedminbesides, isn't / using some kind of a compressed flash filesystem with science-fictional free space numbers?21:05
nicofshmm... i can see that - but isn't it a bit un-clever to design it that way with only 230MB available in the first place?21:05
mgedminI remember getting oodles of free space just by rebooting (apparently it triggers garbage collection or something)21:05
mgedminwell, dpkg is designed to be able to abort an upgrade if it fails in the middle21:06
SpeedEvil256M was the largest part available at the time21:06
DocScrutinizerit does garbage collect on NAND21:06
mgedminre-downloading multiple megabytes instead of a binary delta... that's not optimal, yes21:06
mgedminthough if n900 were designed to be optimal, it wouldn't be out yet -- for many years...21:07
nicofsmgedmin, disabling 3rd party sources just took away another 100kB of space...21:08
mgedminyeah, might be that garbage collection thing...21:09
mgedminthe n900 was the first time I saw "rm: cannot delete file: not enough free space" thing21:09
mgedminI think 'sync' also triggers GC21:09
mgedmintry sync and see if the free space numbers go up21:09
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nicofsmgedmin sync gave me another 700kB21:17
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Sicelobluetooth sycn?21:19
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infobotSicelo meant: bluetooth sync?21:25
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keriohrmpf, writing through sftp sucks21:44
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kerioyay, syncing music at 280kb/s21:50
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Sicelotried running a network process from n900 at the same time, eg ping?21:55
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SpeedEvilyou mean kilobits?21:59
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kerioSpeedEvil: FOAD22:07
kerioyay, syncing music at 280KB/s22:07
keriois that better?22:07
SpeedEvilI was trying to clarify.22:08
SpeedEvilOne is good, one is bad.22:08
kerio280KB is still not good22:08
SpeedEvilerr - no22:08
kerioit's much better than 280kb22:08
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SpeedEvilSorry - my mind is dead. I've been writing stuff to send to a tribunal.22:09
SpeedEvilAt 8000 words of legalese that I needed to research.22:09
kerioy u no use lawyer? (y°#°)y22:09
SpeedEvilBecause it's not possible.22:09
SpeedEvilWell - it is - but not economically.22:10
nicofsis there a way to stream *.asx files on my n900?22:10
SpeedEvilmplayer -playlist *asx IIRC worked22:11
nicofsin a console?22:11
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SpeedEvilOr was it something like downloading the URL mentioned in the asx, and then playing that as a playlist22:12
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* javispedro buys a BP-4L on amazon23:45
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vdvis it possible to create hildon menu filters on maemo with qt?23:51
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vdvseems it's done with QActionGroup...23:53
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