IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-11-12

rlyBut there has to be some kind of commitment to produce an actual product in the end complete with manufacturing contracts, etc.00:00
* SpeedEvil wishes he had a billion or so to sponsor projects with.00:00
SpeedEvilAnd to lobby.00:00
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: then there was dash00:01
rlyI probably also wouldn't like the legal risks, since I don't understand them.00:01
SpeedEvilPatents make the process a total minefield.00:01
rlyIt's sad that that's a consideration.00:01
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SpeedEvilYou should not be able to get a patent for solving a novel problem in the obvious way.00:01
rlyThere are now general problem solving methods.00:02
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rlyThat is methods that will _always_ solve the given problem optimally.00:02
rlyCreativity is nothing more than a happy feeling people like to have to make them feel special.00:03
DocScrutinizereach other day I muse why patents worked in the late 19th early 20th century, but not any more00:03
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rlyIt is because THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR.00:03
rlyNah, I don't know about that, but progress goes pretty fast these days.00:03
DocScrutinizerrly: some raher inspiring thoughts you toss around here00:04
rlyDocScrutinizer: that's sarcasm right? (Sheldon voice)00:05
DocScrutinizerthe problems solving method approach was inspiring to me00:05
DocScrutinizera new thought, new PoV00:06
rlyDocScrutinizer: it's not a very 'practical' approach, but it should work.00:06
rlyDocScrutinizer: do you want the paper?00:06
DocScrutinizerI promise I'll not shout at you when you drop an URL here00:06
rlyDocScrutinizer: that guy wrote a book on universal AI too.00:07
rlyDocScrutinizer: and some related people improved again on that and there are some other related methods to that again.00:07
rlyDocScrutinizer: there are about 30 papers or so that you would have to read to understand the field.00:08
rlyVery interesting stuff, imho.00:08
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rlyOne of the systems allows for putting a number on the complexity of any concrete problem.00:09
rlySo, let's say you have some input 1 3 4 5445435 43323423 2312 312312 and you have to sort it.00:09
DocScrutinizergathered as much - but I'm brilliant on getting a grasp of a concept even while not completely understanding the whole system00:09
rlyNow, suppose you don't know a constructive way to sort there is still a way to sort it, but that process 'the learning' has a number of steps associated with it. You could use that as some universal measure of complexity.00:10
rlyI haven't actually read about that idea in the literature, so perhaps I should write a paper about it :P00:11
rlyI think it is a bit too trivial to publish, though.00:11
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rlyOTOH, the whole scientific world hangs together by simple incremental steps.00:11
rlySome people are actually building a machine based on these principles right now.00:12
DocScrutinizeranyway, sitting here with my jacket and boots, on my way out00:12
rlyOk, bye.00:13
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ZogG_N9ruskie, ping01:17
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LaoLang_coolmgedmin, Jaffa: hi, are you online? I think vim should be updated to version 7.3 :)02:09
LaoLang_cool could you update it please? 7.3 has many cool features. And 7.2 n900 version doesn't have 'autochdir' option, please add it in 7.3, thank you!02:12
* mgedmin will try not to forget02:14
mgedminI need to set up a freemantle sbox targed on this machine first02:15
LaoLang_coolmgedmin: thank you! And please remember to add the feature 'autochdir' :)02:15
mgedmindo you have scratchbox?02:19
LaoLang_coolmgedmin: no, I don't know it at all, if there are a step by step instruction, I will try02:20
mgedminfor harmattan (n9/n950) there are (or used to be) screencasts at
mgedminfor fremantle (n9) I don't have any links handy atm02:24
mgedminit's 2:30 am here, and I'm a bit tired02:24
mgedminI'll try to do something tomorrow02:24
mgedmin(unless I forget)02:24
mgedmin(or find I've no time)02:25
LaoLang_coolmgedmin: thank you, good night and have a good dream!02:25
LaoLang_coolmgedmin: bye!02:27
Macercan somebody please help me. i am trying to reflash my n900 and i keep getting error: creatfile, error = 502:28
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PhlogistiqueMacer: sorry, no idea02:41
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AlmightyOatmeali can't seem to find a replacement screen or digitizer on ebay for a nokia n810 :'(03:22
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AlmightyOatmealdoes anyone have a part number or know of somewhere i could procure a replacement screen and possibly a replacement digitizer as well?03:24
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SpeedEvilI missed the previous line.03:28
SpeedEvilUnfortunately, parts dry up as userbase goe down.03:28
AlmightyOatmealthat's exactly why i'm asking people who may know...03:28
SpeedEvilA n810 with other faults...03:28
SpeedEvilLurk and ask at a few time of days.03:29
SpeedEvilfew times of day.03:29
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SpeedEvilThere are still people with 810s here.03:29
SpeedEvilmaybe some know.03:29
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AlmightyOatmealthats why i'm asking :P03:29
SpeedEvilFair enough. :)03:29
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SpeedEvilI should have red backscroll - I thought you were asking about n900, not n810 parts.03:30
AlmightyOatmeali wouldn't mind a n900, but i sold my working n810 and i'm trying to get my other n810 with a cracked screen running03:30
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AlmightyOatmeali should rephrase that, besides being scuffed it works just fine, excluding being able to see the display.. all the work i could do would have to be over ssh, kinda defeats the portablility aspect03:32
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LaoLang_coolAny rss feed for news on new packages on maemo?04:45
LaoLang_cooland news on package update04:45
Macerunfortunately .. i need hard drives in my synology to get it to work04:51
Maceri was hoping it had a built in nand for the disk station server stuff04:52
* SpeedEvil is annoyed at the lack of AC power.04:53
Macerac power?04:54
SpeedEvilMy lights just went out.04:54
Macerpart of my reason for getting the synology is that reason there04:55
Macermy UPS can keep all my gear up for probably 2 hrs04:55
Macerwith the fileserver attached.... 20mins :)04:55
Macerthere is a maemo5 security update?04:55
SpeedEvilThat's it.04:57
SpeedEvilMine too. If I load-shed, and only have the DSL modem up.04:57
SpeedEvilIt was OTA about a couple of weeks ago04:57
SpeedEvilIt was just the diginotar cert removal04:58
Macerfrom whom? nokia?04:58
Macerthey went through all that trouble ? :)04:58
Maceri am going to wait on cssu to be done before updating again04:58
Macerbackupmenu wasn't worth anything04:59
Maceri wound up having to reflash04:59
medicalweiAnyone using irreco or qtirreco or something in between?04:59
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slonopotamushmm... i'm sure there was firefox mobile for n900. it's gone?08:38
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Siceloi think it's still there. slow afaik. u can check logs for the link. it's not in maemo repos09:27
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trampyou have to add the mozilla repo09:31
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trampFF for N900:
trampFF for N900:
trampWhat is the best way to find and talk to someone without seeming to stalkerish?09:38
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Maceri remember seeing the picasa sharing plugin having an option to choose which album you put the photos in09:53
Macerwhere did that go ? is that just a cssu only feature or something?09:53
Macerto find and talk to someone without seeming too stalkerish? use irc :-P09:55
Macerdamnit. i need to fix this picasa sharing09:56
Macerit was working so nicely too09:56
Maceri think power kernel and fmtx do not play well together09:56
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Macernm. i fixed the picasa thing. guess i had testing and not devel at the time10:04
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lamahmeego is the next name of maemo?11:45
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lamahwhat is a meego11:50
lamahdiff os?11:50
soltysmeego is meego ;)11:51
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lamahn950, n9 are maemo based?11:52
psycho_oreosthey're in between its dubbed as meego but it still runs maemo package management11:53
psycho_oreoshence codenamed harmattan11:53
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lamahonly? n900 is maemo based?11:55
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SpeedEvilHarmattan is to Fremantle what supermodels are to carthorses.11:56
Termanalamah, The N900 runs Maemo by default, yes.11:56
lamahTermana: there is no new models that runs maemo?11:57
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psycho_oreosN9 technically runs maemo.. with different UI known as `swype' and plagued with aegis11:57
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psycho_oreosa proper meego device should be using rpm packages, neither does N950 nor N9 uses rpm packages so it basically does not conform to meego standards11:58
psycho_oreosits what little researching can do for you :þ11:58
lamahrpm.. blh, yes...  thanks:))12:00
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lamahpsycho_oreos: this is n900 based on Maemo i am searching for similar but something new.. But this is the only one option, n90012:01
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psycho_oreoslamah, there is no new proper maemo based anymore. nokia axed maemo ages ago if you haven't heard the news. They won't even care about harmattan either (which they deliberately dubbed as meego device)12:03
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psycho_oreosin fact nokia only just recently released a security OTA update for fremantle which only fixes that digi* cert flaw12:04
lamahpsycho_oreos: yes this is the true and old n810 or whatever...12:04
lamahhmm interesting12:04
psycho_oreoslamah, afaik if they axed maemo, it doesn't matter if you have 770, N800, N810, N810 WiMax edition or even N900. The bottom line is that manufacturer no longer cares that much about maemo12:05
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psycho_oreosyou can put it in whatever ugly phrases you like, N900 joins the rest of the maemo devices which are literally being disowned by nokia. period12:06
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ZogG_N9psycho_oreos, and your point its?12:07
psycho_oreosZogG_N9, point is to try and to somehow make it easy for this other person to see what is the news. Who knows what he's being doing all this time :)12:08
psycho_oreosold news but hey, looks like someone didn't bother to notice it12:08
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ZogG_N9damn swype sent it12:09
lamahZogG_N9: no, he means is this try by nokia is not very successeful in market line12:09
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ZogG_N9but who cares12:10
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ZogG_N9its not about that, thats about money and it is more politics than be popular =)12:11
psycho_oreosyeah for a thick headed cave dweller who didn't realise nokia is now microsoft's slut. Wise choice for him to leave too on that parting note12:11
ZogG_N9psycho_oreos, i disagree12:12
psycho_oreosZogG_N9, care to elaborate?12:12
ZogG_N9as most companie's politics shitty12:12
ZogG_N9sony is a bitch, but i still prefer ps3 over xbox12:13
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psycho_oreosZogG_N9, I'm not concerned about internal political games. In fact I never will unless I have shares in that company. If the company is nokia I would have long ago withdrew my money when Flop came about. The bottom line is that I'm an outsider and that's all I care about. Facts are facts, its not like you simply cannot deny it when you saw it in action12:14
ZogG_N9and there is no more linux officially, they've been hacked, no respect to us, but i still buy them12:14
psycho_oreosyeah flawed logic thinking.. that statement is full of holes12:14
ZogG_N9i see, i know and understand12:15
psycho_oreoslinux is just a kernel, if its hacked its the core kernel.. but so what? it gets patched12:15
psycho_oreosHow is linux no respect to you? linux is just a kernel, it doesn't like or dislike people. This isn't facebook.12:15
ZogG_N9but not whinning about it, as i can do nothing and its always my chooise what phone to buy12:15
psycho_oreosof course, nobody can place any influence on you12:16
psycho_oreosor any one of us :P12:16
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ZogG_N9psycho_oreos, i was talking about ps3 than12:16
psycho_oreosZogG_N9, and that would contradict your last statement about your phone. PS3 isn't a phone :)12:17
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ZogGpsycho_oreos, `it doesn't matter phone or not12:18
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ZogGthere are always few companies12:18
ZogGand few of them are better than others12:18
ZogGand you choose one you like and buy the phone12:18
psycho_oreosZogG, and I still fail to see how is discussion about sory related to maemo at all. Sure you can hack it to run linux but that's got nothing to do with maemo12:19
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ZogGbut they see things different sometimes but as YUO choosed them, they still don't OWAN you to go now the way you want12:19
ahollerthe future of linux on smartphone seems to be what motorola starts with atrix.12:20
ZogGit's not about linux12:21
psycho_oreosof course, nobody had to force nokia not to recruit Flop. AGAIN that is not my point. I'm not mocking over their chosen person but rather their CURRENT stance.12:21
jonwilI still think the N900 is the best cellphone ever made.12:21
jonwiland I will keep using mine as long as it can continue to make phonecalls12:22
psycho_oreosN900 isn't a phone, but many joe blo assumes just because N900 has phone functionality its been rationalised as a smartphone despite its usual lacking features of what a smartphone is meant to be.12:22
SpeedEvilI'd say the nokia 3310 is arguably better.12:22
jonwilwhat features is it missing?12:23
SpeedEvilI can sit on it, and get up because it hurts my arse, not because I've worried that I've shattered it.12:23
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psycho_oreosno MMS support natively (FMMS does not count), portrait mode for almost everywhere (CSSU/MHD does not count, nor does any other hacks), etc12:24
jonwilI dont care about MMS or portrait mode12:25
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jonwilI like the N900 because it does all things I need in a cellphone12:26
psycho_oreosSo if other smartphones has it, they're not called smartphones but smartphones with MMS and portrait mode? :)12:26
jonwiloriginal iPhone didnt have MMS12:26
psycho_oreosI like N900 because it has a proper linux environment with a portion of phone's functionality12:26
jonwiland no-one would deny that's a phone12:27
psycho_oreosbut iPhone has the words phone written in it :)12:27
psycho_oreosyet it still does native portrait mode12:27
jonwilits all semantics IMO, what matters is not what its labeled, its whether it has the features you need12:28
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psycho_oreosUnfortunately the reality is different, most smartphones seem to have common traits. Sure its not like you don't use it and therefore its not something that it can't be counted as one. Contrary to that the missing functionality is weird to not have it is it not?12:30
jonwilI like the N900 because its the closest thing yet invented to a linux system in your pocket\12:31
jonwilthat also does SMS, calls and 3G data12:32
psycho_oreosand you could really go into discussing about that modded N810 that could almost function as a smartphone. Surely that N810 cannot be called a smartphone now that it has a SIM slot? :)12:32
jonwilno the N810 wont count because the hardware was added later. Just like you cant call a laptop a "mobile device" just because you use a 3G USB dongle with it12:32
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LaoLang_coolwhich app do you use to show picture?12:33
Jartzalaptop is mobile device even without 3G dongle :)12:33
psycho_oreosHardware or software are all relatively identical meanings to me.12:33
jonwilin any case I intend to spend some tonight continuing my work on the N900 virtual keyboard stuff12:33
LaoLang_coolbuilt-in file manager can't show the pic in original size right?12:33
Jartza"mobile device" does not have to have a connectivity12:34
psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool, the point is why would you want to? If you have a really huge photo (like 4000x4000 pixels) which obviously N900 cannot show it all in that small screen, you must still have it all viewed somehow?12:35
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LaoLang_coolpsycho_oreos: I can drag the mouse to show parts of pic, but if the pic resized to fit screen, I can't see the details because it's so small12:36
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LaoLang_coolThen the pic is no useable at all12:36
psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool, then you should be looking at image/photo editors. There's a few around such as mypaint for instance12:37
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LaoLang_coolpsycho_oreos: thanks for recommended, I will take a look12:37
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ZogGruskie is dead? =)14:54
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* DocScrutinizer reads backscroll and frowns15:27
jonwilwhat, the argument over whether an N900 is a phone or not?15:28
DocScrutinizeresp ZogG 's last post15:29
ZogGDocScrutinizer, hey baby15:29
DocScrutinizerand about "modified N810"15:30
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bash`hi all15:30
DocScrutinizerblue_led did an incredible job on modding an N81015:30
ZogGDocScrutinizer N810-BL?15:31
SpeedEvilThe first maemo phone.15:31
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bash`I'm getting a very strange behavior with my N900: if I don't use it for 2-3 minutes, and there're no applications shutdown!15:31
ZogGit's bored15:32
psycho_oreosbash`, running out of power? some program you installed is buggy?15:32
bash`really, any idea about?15:32
ZogGwhat does dmesg says15:32
norayrSpeedEvil: not the phone, not the first :P15:32
bash`psycho_oreos: I reflashed it and it still shutdown15:32
DocScrutinizerbash`: any special lockscreen installed?15:32
bash`no, but I'm using the SSU15:32
ZogGCSSU you mean/15:32
bash`yes :)15:33
keriois there a way to flash fiasco+combined from meego?15:34
DocScrutinizerbash`: It sounds like a random error report15:34
bash`yes unfortunately15:34
bash`could be a battery fault?15:35
bash`(battery is the original one)15:35
DocScrutinizerwouldn't explain why it only shuts down when not in iuse15:35
psycho_oreosdmesg would be very useful imo15:35
bash`psycho_oreos: ok, I'm nopasting it15:35
bash`pls wait15:35
DocScrutinizernot dmesg but syslog15:36
bash`I guess I don't have syslog installed15:36
bash`installing syslog, then I close all my windows and we wait it to shutdown :)15:37
* DocScrutinizer goes preparing some coffee, so maybe the day looks a bit brighter then15:39
DocScrutinizer~lart ZogG15:40
* infobot moos at ZogG15:40
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* ZogG prepares popcorn15:41
DocScrutinizerI really hate reading "XY is dead?" first thing after I resumed15:41
HaXerimy n900 camera seems odd15:41
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HaXericant start any camera-related application for ex. flashlight15:41
SpeedEvilIn what way?15:41
SpeedEvilDoes it make everyone look like Justin Bieber?15:42
HaXeritells me that camera is already being used by some other program15:42
HaXerii killed one camera-ui proccess wich i saw in top but no effect15:42
SpeedEvilThere should be a camera-ui process15:43
SpeedEvilHave you playerd with flashlight app?15:43
HaXeribut it has worked before15:43
HaXeriI've lately installed enchanged linux kernel for power users and I dont remember if successfully used camera after installing it15:44
MohammadAGhowever high you are15:44
MohammadAGor however low life gets you15:44
MohammadAGor if the iPhone is the last mobile ever15:45
MohammadAGDon't fucking get one15:45
psycho_oreosepic +115:45
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: :-D15:45
DocScrutinizermade my day15:45
MohammadAGI woke up to a dead phone15:46
DocScrutinizerHaXeri: uninstall and reinstall all camera apps15:46
MohammadAGI went to take a shower, locked the phone, got out of the shower, dead phone15:46
MohammadAGthe OS is locked down, you can't debug shit15:46
MohammadAGinstalled sysklogd on it, let's see what happens next15:47
HaXeriDocScrutinizer: okay, can I reinstall the original camera app too?15:47
woldrichdebugging shit... hm15:47
MohammadAGcause shit has bugs sometimes15:47
DocScrutinizerHaXeri: no need, just all fcam, bessn900 and what not else15:47
woldrichyour shit, perhaps. not mine.15:47
DocScrutinizerHaXeri: it's the drivers that come with those "better cams" that don't match your kernel15:48
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, the other day one of me workmate wanted to send this hand drawn tattoo image from his iPhone via bluetooth. Guess what? he couldn't. I tried pairing with him, even tried sending some random pre-recorded voice and it all fails. Apple's DRM at its finest15:48
HaXeriokay, I already removed my fcam15:49
HaXeriso installing it again will take a effect15:49
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ^^^15:50
DocScrutinizercam drivers renewal?15:51
DocScrutinizerHaXeri: though - honestly - it's a very well known problem of power kernel and dealt with in the FAQ, probably top in FAQ15:53
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, you need to JB it15:56
MohammadAGbut apple's locking down all methods to that15:57
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos wins the round15:57
MohammadAGkerio eliminated15:57
keriosomething something relativity something something15:57
AlmightyOatmealdoes anyone know where i may be able to find a replacement screen and possibly digitizer for a nokia n810 except for ebay?15:58
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, I know, I told him that before and he has done it once but he finds its better to stick to stock config15:58
* DocScrutinizer is winner cos not knowing useless BS bout fruitphone15:58
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, tbh, the iPhone's a toy without a JB15:58
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, a feeble one at that to be frank :)15:59
AlmightyOatmealDocScrutinizer: you're a winner because your mamma said so ;)15:59
* AlmightyOatmeal giggles then hides15:59
* psycho_oreos watches DocScrutinizer flares up :o15:59
* MohammadAG sshs into iPhone15:59
MohammadAGoh right, no tools like top/ps :/16:00
* AlmightyOatmeal wishes he could ssh into his other nokia n810, well, he could, but the display is still broken and reduces the portability aspect16:00
kerioMohammadAG: tbh, an Android phone is a toy without a rooting16:01
kerioAlmightyOatmeal: cheap homeserver with internal UPS gogogo16:01
keriowell, "cheap"16:01
MohammadAGoh ffs16:02
AlmightyOatmealkerio: lmao, what can i possibly do with a 400mhz mips cpu on my home network?16:02
MohammadAGno /var/log/syslog16:02
AlmightyOatmealthat's not even fast enough to dispense toilet paper16:02
kerioAlmightyOatmeal: bittorrent *all* the things! _o/16:02
MohammadAGAlmightyOatmeal, given you're having diarrheoa, yes16:02
AlmightyOatmealkerio: torrent what things? that's what i have a laptop and a server for :P16:03
keriooh, you already have a server16:03
AlmightyOatmealtorrent off the nokia n810, lol, store all the goodies on a microsd card? silly pants :)16:03
hiemanshuMohammadAG: you can install those16:03
kerioAlmightyOatmeal: doesn't the n810 have a usb port?16:04
MohammadAGhiemanshu, I installed syslogd, no syslog file16:04
AlmightyOatmealkerio: not the best server in the world, 64 bit celeron with 2T storage array16:04
MohammadAGand the syslogd is just an /etc/syslog.conf file16:04
kerioboo hoo16:04
hiemanshuMohammadAG: there is htop, gcc, etc, in cydia, look for them :P16:04
keriomy server is a sheevaplug with a 1tb usb hd16:04
AlmightyOatmealkerio: yes it does have a usb port.. what i used my other n810 for was a gps, web browser, and ebook reader.. hard to do all of the above with a cracked display :P16:04
AlmightyOatmealkerio: ha16:05
AlmightyOatmealyour server sound adorable ^.^16:05
MohammadAGhiemanshu, no htop :p16:05
kerioit is ^.^16:05
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kerioit also requires... about no power16:06
MohammadAG/kick DocScrutinizer gives the same effect :P16:06
hiemanshuMohammadAG: interesting I had htop on mine16:06
* AlmightyOatmeal pets DocScrutinizer 16:06
hiemanshuI know there is top, and htop and other stuff16:06
MohammadAGsome results for top16:06
MohammadAGTopless Babe Pink Panties theme16:07
AlmightyOatmealkerio: true.. but i'm sure the IOPS of my server would probably be higher..16:07
kerioAlmightyOatmeal: sure, but i only have a 20/1 connection anyway16:07
AlmightyOatmeali've been wanthing to switch to a nice dual xeon, that thing would draw a nice amount of power16:07
kerioyeah, but what for?16:07
AlmightyOatmealkerio: my fileserver is also a development box and hashtable generator16:08
keriomy fileserver also downloads movies and videogames16:08
AlmightyOatmeali figure when i'm not watching the matrix trilogy in hd or harry potter, i might as well use the spare cpu cycles16:08
kerioi win16:08
AlmightyOatmealhehe, i use my gf's laptop for that, i've been planning on moving everything over to a headless deluge configuration on a dedicated interface, but the problem is, i have no hdd space left on it16:09
AlmightyOatmealmy array has been overflowing for the past 6 months and i've been cycling old data off it :'(16:09
keriobuy more hard disks dude16:10
keriodeleting stuff is for wimps16:10
AlmightyOatmealheh, if i could i would. i'm a digital hoarder without hdd space16:10
DocScrutinizeryeah, the tough guys don't find stuff in their petabyte of random shit16:10
AlmightyOatmealthat's what the locate database is for ;)16:11
keriomamedev don't care about your hard disk space16:11
psycho_oreosat least you could surprise people with the amount of storage you have in your boxen16:11
DocScrutinizerbut they all swear no matter what it is they got it *somewhere*16:11
keriomamedev don't give a fuck16:11
kerioDocScrutinizer: the latest TOSEC takes 3.12 TB16:12
DocScrutinizeryou'd surprise mo only with a hexdump on paper of *all* the stuff you heard16:12
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: you'd surprise me only with a hexdump on paper of *all* the stuff you heard16:13
kerioDocScrutinizer: mame 0.143 takes 253gb16:13
* DocScrutinizer watches load of wolfram alpha hit the roof16:14
DocScrutinizerwhat's all that shit? rainbow tables?16:15
kerioDocScrutinizer: TOSEC is pretty much every game ever released for every console ever16:15
DocScrutinizerso also a rainbow table XP16:15
keriohuh, not only games apparently16:16
keriothere's zx spectrum applications16:16
DocScrutinizerwho by the love of god was so insane to download 3TB of data for *anything*?16:17
keriooften you just grab the parts you want16:17
kerioi only have the full mame romset16:17
* AlmightyOatmeal grabs kerio 16:17
DocScrutinizerjust to find that space invaders for zx spectrum doesn't work as it's a fake16:17
kerioDocScrutinizer: stop spreading FUD please16:18
kerioTOSEC doesn't even give you download links16:18
kerioit's just a massive database16:18
DocScrutinizerkerio: stop loading my network with nonsense shit please16:18
* DocScrutinizer re-positions some geostationary x-ray lasers16:19
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* DocScrutinizer traceroutes kerio and drops the national network there for 5 min16:20
kerioDocScrutinizer: why u mad tho16:21
keriomoving bits around is what the internet is about!16:21
* DocScrutinizer is skynet16:21
* AlmightyOatmeal jacks into the matrix16:21
kerioDocScrutinizer: what should we use the internet for?16:21
kerio*more* cat pictures?16:21
AlmightyOatmealof course not16:22
DocScrutinizeryeah, I *love* cat pictures16:22
AlmightyOatmealthe internet is for 241543903 (google images that)16:22
DocScrutinizer  MOAR KITTEN PICS16:23
* jonwil thinks doing research on the N900 virtual keyboard is a valid use of the internet :P16:26
DocScrutinizerOT fun stuff factoid: it *seems* suspend-to-disk fails epically on linux when your used RAM is larger than your _free_ swap space16:27
merlin1991hm what does it whithout swap?16:27
SpeedEvilIt suspends to swap typically.16:28
kerioso the suspension fails with an OOM?16:28
kerio*OOM error16:28
DocScrutinizerit simply stalls16:28
keriocouldn't it kill shit?16:28
norayrMohammadAG: toggle camera application just disables the camera-ui application and daemon, right? it does not unload camera drivers so other applications, such an FCamera will continue to work.16:28
DocScrutinizerit *could* but doesn't - at least here16:29
ShadowJKit probably never reaches oom situation, things slow down too much before that16:29
DocScrutinizereven then it probably would kill the swap-suspender first16:30
DocScrutinizeras that's the only not-stopped process basically, at that time16:30
DocScrutinizerand I've seen that happening some times16:31
DocScrutinizernot last time I tried suspend to disk though16:31
DocScrutinizernorayr: yes16:33
DocScrutinizernorayr: the drivers are shared between *all* cam/video apps - that's why all cam related apps break when you update kernel16:34
DocScrutinizerdrivers never get unloaded AFAIK16:35
DocScrutinizernorayr: see backscroll some 60 min, we had that topic recently16:35
DocScrutinizer(though I have to confess I never wrapped my head around it why updating (to) PK doesn't install the right camera kernel modules right away, and how T F fcam et all "install" kernel drivers, and even the right ones for the kernel you are using)16:38
DocScrutinizerit feels kinda insane to ship a kernel module in a userland package called e.g fcam16:39
DocScrutinizerwell, who knows with what a crap I would've come up when hostmode patches could have gone to *.ko rather than the core kernel16:41
DocScrutinizermusb_hdrc being monolithic saved me from doing such botch16:42
DocScrutinizerkernel module handling is a bit awkward in linux16:43
jonwilbah, libhildon-im-vkbrenderer is annoying to figure out (so it can be cloned)16:43
DocScrutinizerjonwil: you'll do it, according to your posts during last week :-D16:44
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DocScrutinizeryou always bitch a lot, then come up with awesome stuff :-)16:44
DocScrutinizerjonwil: btw I had same screit-moments with bme16:45
jonwilits mostly complex because I cant find anyone who knows the first thing about GTK and can help me16:49
DocScrutinizerGTK is a dieing art it seems, yeah16:49
woldrichyes please, die16:50
woldrichit doesn't matter what language you want to use, if you want to code gtk you'll have to code gtk16:50
* DocScrutinizer summons wizards of GTK to obsess the heretics16:51
woldrichalso, why does EVERYTHING have to be HUGE in gtk? It really looks like shit, even compared to Windows16:52
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DocScrutinizermaemo was mighty with GTK, it was still great with Qt, it was unnoticable with meego16:52
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jonwilhmmm, I think the best answer is to document all the exported functions and classes and etc that libhildon-im-vkbrenderer uses and publish that info16:52
jonwiland let some GTK guy write some code behind it to render the VKB the way they want16:53
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: sounds like a professional's approach16:53
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DocScrutinizerdo things where you know you excel, outsource the rest not to waste time on thinks you are not good in or interested to learn16:54
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DocScrutinizerfollowing this approach lead to me finding "my genes" in details of maybe 30% of meamo apps though not even h-e-n has my nametag on boilerplate16:58
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DocScrutinizerotoh *#-ena has my boilerplate and I did *nothing* for it, except packaging and even that was mostly done by MohammadAG ;-P - well I bitched at Nokia about cmt needs the full set of GSM control codes supported and konttori listened to me :-)17:02
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AlmightyOatmealdoes anyone here have a cisco account where they can grab me the latest firmware for a 1142N wap?17:15
AlmightyOatmeali would love them a long time17:15
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* AlmightyOatmeal is still looking for a replacement screen for a nokia n81018:02
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nealDocScrutinizer: Do you know the maximum throughput that the micro sd controller can handle?  I have a class 10 card.  On my think pad, I can write to it between 10-12MB/s.  On my n900, I get just 4-5 MB/s.18:11
DocScrutinizersorry, no data on that available off top of my head18:12
DocScrutinizerneal: I think the clock speed negotiated with the card is a limiting factor18:13
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nealThe depressing part is I get 5-6 MB/s using the internal flash.18:14
DocScrutinizerwhat in turn will determine the the clock speed when controller negotiates with card is a complex topic18:14
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nealI can imagine18:14
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DocScrutinizeryou probably should ask ShadowJK, as afaik he's relly knowledgable about this particular stuff18:15
DocScrutinizermaybe also jacekowski18:16
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DocScrutinizerand/or SpeedEvil18:16
ShadowJKI've seen far over 10megabytes/sec from the internal mmc, reads18:16
nealShadowJK: I was only considering writes.18:16
ShadowJKecho 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests          and mmcblk1 speeds up things a bit for me18:17
* DocScrutinizer idly ponders if it was a nice concept and what it would need to make " echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk*/queue/nr_requests" syntax work18:19
DocScrutinizerneal: generally on write to MMC there are other bottlenecks than exactly the controller that limit the throughput18:21
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DocScrutinizerbuzzword page erase18:21
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nealDocScrutinizer: I think the bottle neck is the N90018:22
nealDocScrutinizer: On my thinkpad I get about twice the write throughput18:22
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DocScrutinizerit basically boild down to the fact that writes to mmc can vary in time they take by a factor of 10^4 to 10^6 (estimated), depending on things like sequence of particular writes etc18:23
DocScrutinizerso it's not the hw that limits the write bandwidth, it's basically entirely related to io scheduler and the logic used therein18:24
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DocScrutinizerand how well that logic matches your particular usecase as well as the actualy hw found *inside* the MMC18:25
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nealI'm not sure what you are telling me answers my question.18:26
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nealUse the same benchmark, I get different performance when the card is in my n900 and in my thinkpad18:27
DocScrutinizera page erase can take in the range of dozens of ms, and it makes a hell of a difference if it has to be done for each byte written, or once every 256kB18:27
nealmy block size was 1 MB18:27
DocScrutinizerneal: you're maybe using the same benchmark, but are you using the same MMC kernel driver? Same IO scheduler?18:28
mgedminPhilip Langdale was blogging interesting posts about MMC write performance on Maemo18:28
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DocScrutinizersame parameters of  /sys/block/mmcblk*/*/*18:28
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mgedminbut that was in Maemo 4 times:
DocScrutinizermgedmin: :-D thanks mate18:29
nealI wonder if the power kernel has integrated similar changes18:30
mgedminthe blog is here:
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Juozapas /j archlinux18:32
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ShadowJK13 megabytes/sec read, 7Megabytes/sec write. Transcend Class 618:32
nealShadowJK: What was your benchmark?18:32
ShadowJKdd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/test bs=1M count=102418:33
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nealand that is only with your buffer size change?18:34
nealShadowJK: Did you sync?18:36
ShadowJKI have ext3 on mmc1, which is nonoptimal for write throughput. It peaks at 10Megabytes/sec until it comes time to update the journal and metadata, which consists of a few small writes, and that's slow, so speed drops to 1 Megabyte/s when it's doing that18:36
nealI did: time sh -c '/usr/bin/gnu/dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/foo  count=1k bs=1M; sync'18:37
dangergrrli have a pc with no wifi, running gentoo, where i am at i have no cell service, can i use the n900 as a wifi adapter until i go buy one?18:38
DocScrutinizerumm, theoretically yes18:38
nealdangergrrl: The power kernel has nat modules, as I understand it18:39
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DocScrutinizeryep, you'll need those, plus usb-networking18:39
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dangergrrlseems like it should work if i knew how :)18:40
DocScrutinizerget usb-networking up so you can ssh from PC to N900 and vice versa, via USB18:41
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ShadowJKneal, average speed including ext3 braindeadedness and sync 5.2Mbytes/sec18:42
dangergrrli think i saw a doc on using the usb networking to tether to gsm, in theory the same would work for wlan018:42
DocScrutinizerthen follow instructions to share LAN internet of PC to N900 (buzzword ip forwarding), just apply the commands meant for PC to your N900 instead18:42
mgedmindangergrrl, sadly, no18:42
mgedminGSM tethering is supported out of the box18:42
mgedminWiFi isn't18:42
ShadowJKtime for "sync" after rm test: 4 seconds18:42
nealShadowJK: I like being able to recover :-)18:43
mgedminfor GSM tethering the Nokia pretends to be a traditional USB modem18:43
nealShadowJK: May be we need a logging file system...18:43
ShadowJKneal, yes, yes we do18:43
nealShadowJK: But I want reliability :)18:43
* ShadowJK uses LogFS on his sheevaplug's usb flash18:43
mgedminto share a Wifi connection you need either NAT (which the standard kernel doesn't have), or a poor man's solution like the built-in SSH SOCKS proxy18:44
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DocScrutinizerssh socks porixy, good call18:45
dangergrrlbut there are something like 5 ways to do gsm tethering, one seemed similar enough, the modem one makes the n900 unable to use it's own net18:45
ShadowJKthat's operator-dependent18:45
DocScrutinizergangyes, and modem approach isn't applicable to AP18:46
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: ^^^18:46
dangergrrlone method used usb networking and the n900 appears as an eth0, i have the power kernel18:47
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: you already got all the bits of info you need: USB-networking plus NAT based IP forwarding18:47
dangergrrlok, thanks :)18:47
ShadowJKnow I remember why I havent benchmarked these "spare" Class 10s18:48
* ShadowJK goes find a drill or something to open the fucking blisterpacks18:48
DocScrutinizerjust follow the instructions under "sharing your PC internet to N900 over USB", just do all the setup meant for PC on your N900 instead18:48
DocScrutinizerexcept those related to mere USB network setup18:49
nealShadowJK: If you are going to use a class 10 card, you might need a different opma_hsmmc module.18:49
DocScrutinizeras you rPC still is hosat and N900 still gadget, from a USB POV18:50
ShadowJKah yes, the typical Kingston "almost SD"18:50
DocScrutinizeras your PC still is host and N900 still gadget, from a USB POV18:50
nealShadowJK: I don't understand the kingston comment...18:50
ShadowJKthey make cards that almost comply to the microsdhc spec18:51
ShadowJKalmost :-)18:51
nealI have a transcend card, which exhibits that problem18:51
ShadowJKthey're kinda same breed18:52
DocScrutinizerhell, how I hate those Itt URLS! please use instead18:53
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SpeedEvilneal: I've seen >11M/s on the internal mmc, and the SD card - at the sme time18:56
SpeedEvil22M/s aggregate18:56
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* ShadowJK yawns18:59
ShadowJKgetting very slow performance on a Kingston Class 10, no errors in dmesg though18:59
SpeedEvilThe above performance was on a very cheap kingston 1G card19:00
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ShadowJKheh. Kingston Class 10: 15minutes47 sec dd, 31s sync19:10
* AlmightyOatmeal throws in a tic-tac as ShadowJK yawns19:11
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: no surprise, as both use a dedicated HW IF aka controller19:15
MohammadAGIsrael forced a law that all phones must be unlocked19:16
ShadowJKTranscend Class 10: 3m19s + sync 12s.19:16
DocScrutinizeror detonated X-P19:16
DocScrutinizerat customs19:17
MohammadAGoh yeah, all phones sold in Israel :p19:17
ShadowJK.. which makes the Class 10 transcend slightly slower than the Class 6 Transcend..19:17
* ShadowJK isn't entirely surprised19:17
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: neat!19:18
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: I don't suppose it extends to bootloaders?19:18
DocScrutinizerwhat was the evil master of uSD now? transcend or kingston?19:18
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, I don't think they know what bootloaders are19:18
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DocScrutinizerI.E. who was selling crap only?19:19
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Sure - if you can get an argument past a judge that the law really means bootloaders too, ...19:19
DocScrutinizermeh, I bet that relates to SIMlock only19:19
DocScrutinizertheir idea of "unlocked" is unrelated to ours19:20
SpeedEvilWell - yes.19:20
SpeedEvilHowever, laws are often badly draftd, and do not say what the lawmakers think they do.19:20
SpeedEvilThis can occasionally be to your advantage.19:20
DocScrutinizernot for19:21
infobotisrael-sucks is, like,
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DocScrutinizerand o way to use this "unlock" as a leverage to make any manuf open up their sourcecode19:23
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, kingston is the source-from-everyone-brand-as-Kingston19:23
DocScrutinizerI laways confuse it when transcend comes in19:23
DocScrutinizerdunno why19:23
DocScrutinizernote to self: "King-ston == King of Shit a metric ton"19:24
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dangergrrlusb networking is up, i have and as nameservers on pc and route add -net default gw usb020:11
dangergrrland echo 1 into the /proc/sys/...ip_forwarding on n90020:12
dliritI've been wondering, does n810 support power/charging through usb or only through the charger it comes with?20:12
Sicelobtw, who is my n900 returns host does not exist20:13
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dliritSicelo: it's google's dns20:14
dangergrrland two iptables commands on the n90020:14
Sicelothought it was and
dangergrrl8.8.8.8 and i think are google dns but i could have the second one wrong20:15
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* dlirit thought I have just said that20:17
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dangergrrlmaybe it is :) ping gets and not
valeriusdangergrrl and, not
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dangergrrlanyhow i have iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT; iptables -a POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s on n90020:22
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dangergrrland my pc gets host unreachable20:22
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dangergrrlmaybe one of those is wrong20:23
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nealdid you enable ip forwarding?20:25
dangergrrli am guessing it is something simple20:25
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nealon my router, I have20:25
neal up echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward20:25
neal up iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE20:25
neal down iptables -t nat -D POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE20:25
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dangergrrltried that with usb0 instead of ppp0 and still get !H on traceroute
mgedminno, you need that on wlan0, not usb020:32
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mgedminand remove it from usb020:33
DocScrutinizermgedmin: pm?20:33
mgedminyes, the hours are in the P.M. over here20:33
mgedminor what did you mean?20:33
DocScrutinizer  -> search xxx  ->   /// -> search xxxxx -> -> 40420:33
mgedminaugh willfix20:33
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mgedminoh dear I'm logging 11 channels20:35
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mgedminI need 5 lines of apache config for each search page20:35
dangergrrlsigh, will have to try later, thx for the help anyhow :)20:36
* mgedmin attempts to refactor20:37
* mgedmin forgot the exact syntax for rewrite rules20:37
DocScrutinizerthnaks for providing the most nice irc logger to be found anywhere20:37
mgedminI've seen nicer logs (but not the tools they were built with)20:37
DocScrutinizerI'm only missing wrapping of long lines :-D20:39
mgedminDocScrutinizer: should be fixed now for all channels20:40
DocScrutinizeractually no, usually they are wrapped20:40
mgedminwrapping -- me too! show me how to wrap them in HTML20:40
mgedminit's huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugesinglewords that are usually URLs that cause problems20:41
DocScrutinizer:nod: again20:41
DocScrutinizer <- OK20:41
mgedminI'm thinking of inserting zero-width spaces after each /, which would break copy-paste maybe, but links are already linkified...20:41
mgedminso you can right-click and copy link address20:42
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RST38hEHLO gentlemen. What's cooking tonight?20:43
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mgedminhow do you insert a zero-width space in HTML?  some unicode character?20:44
mgedminuse a soft hyphen maybe?20:44
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jargon-how do i change the background color in bash3 on the n900?21:17
jargon-and text color too, of course21:18
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nealjargon-: That has to do with your terminal, not bash21:26
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jargon-neal: how do i do the colors in my terminal?21:35
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Siceloxterm title bar, Font21:37
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PBeckhello, i have a problem with my n900. I have deinstalled the package mscim and a few others with the same prefix and now all widgets have no translations anymore - thats means the clock shows for example - wdgt_va_24h_time. I think the problem is that the language support is not installed correctly anymore. Which packages i have to install for english and german language support?22:03
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PBecklocale-archives is defect i a way, i think?22:05
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PBeckperhaps somebody can share his locales-archive to check if that solve the problem22:19
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* mgedmin goes to find his n90022:23
PBeckmgedmin: oh what happend? You have not replaced it?! :p22:24
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mgedminsort of ;)22:24
PBeckthe good stable brick :)22:24
mgedminthe N9 is gorgeous22:24
mgedminand weighs less22:24
nealI'm attached to me N90022:24
infobotneal meant: I'm attached to my N90022:24
mgedmin(most importantly, 1 gig of ram makes it not slow down like the 256 mb n900 used to)22:24
PBeckmgedmin: yes the weight - you are right. The N9 will not be selled officially at germany from the providers22:25
mgedminI've had this experience with every nokia tablet: disappointment (but I liked the old one better!), trial, acceptance, love22:25
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nealPBeck: You can get it on amazon22:26
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PBeckmgedmin: yes sometimes i hate it to wait a long time, when 10 browser windows are open. The problem is - the browser will be killed and i have no restore function :/22:26
NIN101aeigs! no microsd slot! no hw keyboard!!1!one22:26
PBeckneal: yes but i think it's the only seller in germany22:27
mgedminneal, is a list of all debian packages installed on my n90022:27
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PBeckor perhaps a few other online shops - but i dont know why nokia not sell it officially? The microsoft deal is perhaps a problem?22:27
nealmgedmin: You're missing woodchuck :-)22:28
* mgedmin guesses it has something to do with the inferior Lumia 800 looking almost exactly the same22:28
mgedminoh, is that you, Neal?22:28
PBeckis the n9 the samle hackable as the n900?22:29
* neal waves.22:29
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
nealmgedmin: Are there so many neals :)22:30
PBeckmgedmin: hum i think the l10n packages are all installed22:32
mgedminDr. Horrible is a Neal :)22:32
PBeckperhaps you can share your /usr/lib/locales-archive?22:32
* AlmightyOatmeal starts neal on fire22:32
nealmgedmin: Who's that?22:32
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* mgedmin keeps forgetting his n900's hostname is mg-n900-222:33
mgedminyou haven't seen Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-long Blog?  my, are you in for a treat!22:33
nealhmm, he's actually a neil22:33
* mgedmin fails at spelling22:33
mgedminPBeck, -rw-r--r--    1 root     root     23911920 Feb 19  2010 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive22:34
mgedminmd5sum: 0c0677ff23708192bc8e46187d9dedcf22:34
mgedmindpkg -S says it belongs to posix-locales22:35
PBeckhum ok then i will check if a reinstall works22:35
mgedmindo you have that file? does it have  different size/md5sum?22:36
PBecki think it differs from the languages installed22:36
mgedminthe list of packages I pastebin'd was produced with dpkg-query -W --showformat '${STATUS} ${PACKAGE}\n'|grep ' installed '|cut -d ' ' -f 4-22:36
mgedminyou could diff yours with mine22:37
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PBeckok wait one momemt22:38
PBeck-n + m22:38
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dangergrrliptables hates me22:45
PBeckmgedmin: ok looks very similar - the same from the system files22:47
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PBeckmgedmin: can you share your locale-archives`22:50
jrayhawkdangergrrl: first make sure you have this22:50
PBeckmgedmin: oh it has worked22:50
PBeckmgedmin: you are a hero :) apt-get --reinstall install posix-locales was the right command22:51
PBeckmgedmin: so a big thank you for the tipp with posix-locales22:51
mgedminI've no idea how it could've broken22:52
PBeckmgedmin: at the forum all people solved the problem with flashing - but that would be crazy, so it was a good idea to come to the maemo channel :)22:52
mgedminflashing is a good solution because it'll almost always work22:53
PBeckmgedmin: perhaps mscim has broken it - was support for chinese language, dont know22:53
PBeckmgedmin: yeah of course. But thats normally a easy problem, when a package is broken and we know that the file locales-archive is broken22:54
mgedminI'd need to look at its postinst scripts to find out22:54
PBeckmgedmin: now i have learned that i can search with dpkg -S for a package thats contains a specific file :)22:56
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mgedminmost useful dpkg/apt commands: apt-cache search, apt-cache policy, dpkg -S, dpkg -L22:57
mgedmin(not counting apt-get install and such)22:57
DocScrutinizermgedmin: for some strange reason doesn't do the search22:59
PBeckmgedmin: yep right, thank you23:00
PBeckhi DocScrutinizer23:00
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I gather it might need najor structure changes of how apache works there to get it done23:00
DocScrutinizermgedmin: so maybe just ignore this23:00
mgedminI will23:00
mgedminafter I make fun of you for entering URLs manually and forgetting that # separates the URL from the anchor :)23:01
DocScrutinizerdamn transcoding23:01
PBeckbtw is cssu ready for stable use?23:02
DocScrutinizerI thought as much, and clicking on the URL does partial transcoding to #%23 here23:02
DocScrutinizerbug in konqueror/KDE I guess23:03
DocScrutinizeror in Konversation23:03
DocScrutinizerreally obscure issue23:03
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DocScrutinizerPBeck: Stable branch of CSSU is under roll-out testing procedure this very mment23:04
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PBeckDocScrutinizer: sounds good, thats means it will be released in a short time?23:05
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rlyI get a usb0-n900 device and a n900 device. How can I just get one device created? It also seems that the names are different too each time.23:07
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rlySo, one time the HWAddr of usb0-n900 is some non-zero number and the other time it is the n900 device which has that.23:09
psycho_oreos1) udev, 2) modinfo g_info23:10
psycho_oreospoint 2 is somewhat discussed in USB networking23:10
rlypsycho_oreos:  ERROR: modinfo: could not find module g_info23:11
psycho_oreosrly, hint: on N90023:12
rlypsycho_oreos: modinfo: could not find module g_info23:13
rlypsycho_oreos: that's on the phone as root.23:13
psycho_oreosrly, my bad g_nokia23:13
rlypsycho_oreos: I get output, but nothing I recognize that might be of value.23:14
rlyI have some udev rule, which triggers when I connect the device.23:14
rlyThat runs a script.23:15
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rlypsycho_oreos: basically: if $(ifconfig n900 && ifconfig n900 up); then echo "We connected n900" >> $HOME/somefile etc.23:15
psycho_oreosrly, again, point 2 of what I stated is in the USB networking wiki. If you look for that g_nokia you will see how it is to be used. As for udev, you probably need to rename interfaces, etc23:16
rlypsycho_oreos: it runs that in an ethernal loop.23:16
DocScrutinizerPBeck: yes23:16
rlyAnd.. it actually succeeds, but I don't see how it only works if I disconnect and connect the phone two times.23:16
rlyIt doesn't work the first time.23:16
rlyI.e. the n900 HWAddress address stays some 000.23:17
rlySo, the host interface named n900, not anything on the phone.23:17
psycho_oreosit is not the host that needs to change the MAC address as per se for USB networking, its more like the device that needs the interface assigned to a MAC address at boot.23:18
PBeckDocScrutinizer: :)23:18
PBeckstefan raab springt auch nur zum spaß :P23:19
rlypsycho_oreos: I can't really convert that into something I could try.23:19
PBeckupps wrong windows :)23:20
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psycho_oreosrly, I guess its time for you to consult the modinfo manpages. Also the modprobe manpages23:20
rlypsycho_oreos: I already have ethernet over usb working, it's just the device name which seems to change.23:21
rlypsycho_oreos: so, for the usbnet driver?23:21
rlypsycho_oreos: modinfo usbnet also doesn't tell my anything I want to know.23:22
psycho_oreosI'm fairly certain udev cannot assign MAC addresses, so the only way to make it work is for the endpoint to assign MAC address itself which therefore is N900 itself23:22
psycho_oreosrly, you're now throwing yourself off on a tangent when I told you what you need to do23:22
DocScrutinizerthere's been some BS brainf*cked function in standard linux to assign random MAC addr to USB ethernet devices23:22
DocScrutinizeror sth like that23:22
rlypsycho_oreos: it already is assigning mac addresses if I put it in twice.23:23
psycho_oreosat least the good thing is that you can fix the MAC address with g_nokia kernel module23:23
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rlypsycho_oreos: so your theory that we need the g_nokia kernel module is not true.23:23
psycho_oreosrly, again continuing off on a tangent23:23
rlypsycho_oreos: it might be that it could make things more predictable, which might have use, but it isn't an established fact.23:23
psycho_oreosrly, it needs to be specified and maybe a reboot is necessary23:24
rlypsycho_oreos: reboots of neither device were needed.23:24
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: kinda23:24
psycho_oreosrly, keep pondering then, I have my two N900 working through USB networking perfectly with set MAC addresses23:24
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: you can tell it to use specific mac address23:24
rlypsycho_oreos: because again, I already have the n900 working with ethernet over usb.23:24
rlypsycho_oreos: it is just that in one major case, it doesn't.23:24
psycho_oreosrly, just because you did it with ethernet it does not mean that its anything particularly special. If the MAC address is bound to change then it still is the module.23:25
rlypsycho_oreos: once it has a mac address it has always worked, so I don't see that as a problem.23:26
psycho_oreosrly, its ok, keep throwing yourself off the tangent, I've pointed out the cause.. and its also stated in the USB networking wiki but you're just not willing to accept the truth23:26
rlypsycho_oreos: you have not provided information that is consistent with the data.23:26
rlyOr rather, you seem to ignore my observations.23:26
rlyI believe that your setup works, though.23:27
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rlyIt doesn't mean that your setup is the only possible way in which it can work.23:27
psycho_oreosrly, It has to set itself a MAC address, but most of the time the MAC address is randomised23:27
psycho_oreosrly, I have provided clues but you have not bothered to listen23:27
psycho_oreosok so go experiment then23:28
rlypsycho_oreos: can you then perhaps explain it more clearly?23:28
rlyWhat is 'it' for example?23:28
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psycho_oreosrly, no I'm not going to repeat myself. There's already information stated at least twice throughout this simple trivial issue23:28
psycho_oreosIf a device does not have a MAC address it basically cannot communicate on the network, period23:29
rlypsycho_oreos: that part is clear.23:30
rlyWhat is not clear is how the N900 is possibly going to set a mac address on the host.23:30
rlyThat just doesn't make sense.23:30
psycho_oreosrly, and that isn't news that every networked device has to have a MAC address.23:31
rlypsycho_oreos: no, that's not news.23:31
psycho_oreosI never stated N900 is changing the MAC addreess on the host.23:31
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psycho_oreosrly, oh so you now realise23:32
rlypsycho_oreos: I realise nothing, but you might be 'right'.23:32
rlyI don't care about who is right or wrong. I just want to solve this issue.23:33
rlyThe issue being that sometimes the usb0-n900 device gets the mac address and sometimes it is the n900 device.23:33
psycho_oreosrly, I'm not debating on right and wrong. I'm merely stating the facts23:33
rlypsycho_oreos: ok, well, I am not realizing anything. That's also a fact.23:33
rlypsycho_oreos: can you give a specific hint?23:34
psycho_oreosrly, despite the clues that has been laid out before hand23:34
psycho_oreosrly, 1) man udev, 2) man modinfo, 3) man modprobe23:34
rlypsycho_oreos: perhaps my problem is entirely different from what you believe; that wouldn't be the first time someone has send me into the woods.23:34
rlyI could try to tell udev to never create a usb0-n900 device.23:35
psycho_oreosrly, if you believe that is the case, you're free to ask others and get their opinions23:35
psycho_oreosand that is still not the point23:35
rlyBut I don't even know whether I can even stop that from happening.23:36
rlyWell, it seems that the system randomly picks usb0-n900 or n900.23:36
rlySo, if usb0-n900 doesn't exist, the problem doesn't exist.23:36
rlyI didn't design these crappy interfaces.23:36
* psycho_oreos gives up and focuses on some more useful work23:36
rlyThanks for not helping me then.23:36
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rlyThis kind of problem solving is a useless gimmick, because they are manufactured problems.23:38
* psycho_oreos votes for PEBKAC +123:38
psycho_oreosLayer 8 error23:38
rlyI understand all your bad jokes.23:40
rlyThe wiki doesn't mention anything about assigning MAC addresses manually.23:40
rlyOk, well, that's not entirely true.23:41
psycho_oreos"Fixing the MAC address" isn't there is it? it must have been deleted from wiki23:42
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rlypsycho_oreos: I already corrected myself.23:43
psycho_oreosrly, at least 5 minutes after I provided the initial hint23:44
rlyIt also says that is confuses Mac OS X, not whether Linux is also affected.23:44
psycho_oreoss/minutes/minutes ago/23:44
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: rly, at least 5 minutes ago after I provided the initial hint23:44
psycho_oreosThat isn't the point23:44
psycho_oreosjust because its stated for Mac, it doesn't mean linux/windows is immune23:44
rlyI still don't know why it would be relevant.23:44
rlyI expect udev to work regardless of what MAC address it has to connect to.23:45
rlyYes, and I know that udev isn't connecting to anything.23:45
Macerok. can't take it anymore. i need to install just 1 hard drive in this thing to see what it can do :)23:46
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rlypsycho_oreos: ok, so now I see that your command results in the host to see the specified fixed mac address.23:48
rlypsycho_oreos: it named ith eth1-n900.23:48
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rlyNow, as to why it gave that particular name? No idea.23:49
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rlyI want to set a fixed name such that it is always the same name for the same device.23:49
rlySo, something like mybeautifulphone, instead of eth1-n900 or eth0-n900, etc.23:50
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DocScrutinizerrly: I think you got one device too much anyway23:53
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rlyDocScrutinizer: how can I assign a name to the n900 connection which is always the same independent of how many devices I connect to my machine?23:57
rlyI am pretty sure that this falls apart if I add another NIC.23:58
DocScrutinizermake the MAC addr of all devices the same23:58
rlyDocScrutinizer: uhm, shouldn't they all be different?23:58
DocScrutinizerthen you get different names for the different devices23:59
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