| rly | But there has to be some kind of commitment to produce an actual product in the end complete with manufacturing contracts, etc. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 00:00 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes he had a billion or so to sponsor projects with. | 00:00 | |
| SpeedEvil | And to lobby. | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: then there was dash | 00:01 |
| rly | I probably also wouldn't like the legal risks, since I don't understand them. | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Patents make the process a total minefield. | 00:01 |
| rly | It's sad that that's a consideration. | 00:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | You should not be able to get a patent for solving a novel problem in the obvious way. | 00:01 |
| rly | There are now general problem solving methods. | 00:02 |
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| rly | That is methods that will _always_ solve the given problem optimally. | 00:02 |
| rly | Creativity is nothing more than a happy feeling people like to have to make them feel special. | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | each other day I muse why patents worked in the late 19th early 20th century, but not any more | 00:03 |
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| rly | It is because THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR. | 00:03 |
| rly | Nah, I don't know about that, but progress goes pretty fast these days. | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: some raher inspiring thoughts you toss around here | 00:04 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: that's sarcasm right? (Sheldon voice) | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | honest | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problems solving method approach was inspiring to me | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | a new thought, new PoV | 00:06 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: it's not a very 'practical' approach, but it should work. | 00:06 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: do you want the paper? | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I promise I'll not shout at you when you drop an URL here | 00:06 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: http://www.hutter1.net/ai/pfastprg.pdf | 00:07 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: that guy wrote a book on universal AI too. | 00:07 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: and some related people improved again on that and there are some other related methods to that again. | 00:07 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: there are about 30 papers or so that you would have to read to understand the field. | 00:08 |
| rly | Very interesting stuff, imho. | 00:08 |
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| rly | One of the systems allows for putting a number on the complexity of any concrete problem. | 00:09 |
| rly | So, let's say you have some input 1 3 4 5445435 43323423 2312 312312 and you have to sort it. | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | gathered as much - but I'm brilliant on getting a grasp of a concept even while not completely understanding the whole system | 00:09 |
| rly | Now, suppose you don't know a constructive way to sort there is still a way to sort it, but that process 'the learning' has a number of steps associated with it. You could use that as some universal measure of complexity. | 00:10 |
| rly | I haven't actually read about that idea in the literature, so perhaps I should write a paper about it :P | 00:11 |
| rly | I think it is a bit too trivial to publish, though. | 00:11 |
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| rly | OTOH, the whole scientific world hangs together by simple incremental steps. | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 00:11 |
| rly | Some people are actually building a machine based on these principles right now. | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, sitting here with my jacket and boots, on my way out | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 00:13 |
| rly | Ok, bye. | 00:13 |
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| ZogG_N9 | ruskie, ping | 01:17 |
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| LaoLang_cool | mgedmin, Jaffa: hi, are you online? I think vim should be updated to version 7.3 :) | 02:09 |
| LaoLang_cool | could you update it please? 7.3 has many cool features. And 7.2 n900 version doesn't have 'autochdir' option, please add it in 7.3, thank you! | 02:12 |
| * mgedmin will try not to forget | 02:14 | |
| mgedmin | I need to set up a freemantle sbox targed on this machine first | 02:15 |
| LaoLang_cool | mgedmin: thank you! And please remember to add the feature 'autochdir' :) | 02:15 |
| mgedmin | do you have scratchbox? | 02:19 |
| LaoLang_cool | mgedmin: no, I don't know it at all, if there are a step by step instruction, I will try | 02:20 |
| mgedmin | for harmattan (n9/n950) there are (or used to be) screencasts at harmattan-dev.nokia.com | 02:24 |
| mgedmin | for fremantle (n9) I don't have any links handy atm | 02:24 |
| mgedmin | it's 2:30 am here, and I'm a bit tired | 02:24 |
| mgedmin | I'll try to do something tomorrow | 02:24 |
| mgedmin | (unless I forget) | 02:24 |
| mgedmin | (or find I've no time) | 02:25 |
| LaoLang_cool | mgedmin: thank you, good night and have a good dream! | 02:25 |
| mgedmin | bye! | 02:27 |
| LaoLang_cool | mgedmin: bye! | 02:27 |
| Macer | can somebody please help me. i am trying to reflash my n900 and i keep getting error: creatfile, error = 5 | 02:28 |
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| Phlogistique | Macer: sorry, no idea | 02:41 |
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| Macer | :( | 02:47 |
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| AlmightyOatmeal | i can't seem to find a replacement screen or digitizer on ebay for a nokia n810 :'( | 03:22 |
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| AlmightyOatmeal | does anyone have a part number or know of somewhere i could procure a replacement screen and possibly a replacement digitizer as well? | 03:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | ebay | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I missed the previous line. | 03:28 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | :P | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, parts dry up as userbase goe down. | 03:28 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | that's exactly why i'm asking people who may know... | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | A n810 with other faults... | 03:28 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | ? | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Lurk and ask at a few time of days. | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | few times of day. | 03:29 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | ... | 03:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | There are still people with 810s here. | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe some know. | 03:29 |
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| AlmightyOatmeal | thats why i'm asking :P | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Fair enough. :) | 03:29 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | :) | 03:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | I should have red backscroll - I thought you were asking about n900, not n810 parts. | 03:30 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | i wouldn't mind a n900, but i sold my working n810 and i'm trying to get my other n810 with a cracked screen running | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 03:31 |
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| AlmightyOatmeal | i should rephrase that, besides being scuffed it works just fine, excluding being able to see the display.. all the work i could do would have to be over ssh, kinda defeats the portablility aspect | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | yep. | 03:32 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Any rss feed for news on new packages on maemo? | 04:45 |
| LaoLang_cool | and news on package update | 04:45 |
| Macer | awesome | 04:51 |
| Macer | unfortunately .. i need hard drives in my synology to get it to work | 04:51 |
| Macer | heh | 04:51 |
| Macer | i was hoping it had a built in nand for the disk station server stuff | 04:52 |
| * SpeedEvil is annoyed at the lack of AC power. | 04:53 | |
| Macer | ac power? | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | My lights just went out. | 04:54 |
| Macer | ouch | 04:54 |
| Macer | part of my reason for getting the synology is that reason there | 04:55 |
| Macer | my UPS can keep all my gear up for probably 2 hrs | 04:55 |
| Macer | with the fileserver attached.... 20mins :) | 04:55 |
| Macer | there is a maemo5 security update? | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | diginotar-- | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | That's it. | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Mine too. If I load-shed, and only have the DSL modem up. | 04:57 |
| Macer | 21.2011.38.002? | 04:57 |
| Macer | 2011???? | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | It was OTA about a couple of weeks ago | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | It was just the diginotar cert removal | 04:58 |
| Macer | from whom? nokia? | 04:58 |
| Macer | oh | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:58 |
| Macer | they went through all that trouble ? :) | 04:58 |
| Macer | i am going to wait on cssu to be done before updating again | 04:58 |
| Macer | backupmenu wasn't worth anything | 04:59 |
| Macer | i wound up having to reflash | 04:59 |
| medicalwei | Anyone using irreco or qtirreco or something in between? | 04:59 |
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| slonopotamus | hmm... i'm sure there was firefox mobile for n900. it's gone? | 08:38 |
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| Sicelo | i think it's still there. slow afaik. u can check logs for the link. it's not in maemo repos | 09:27 |
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| tramp | you have to add the mozilla repo | 09:31 |
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| tramp | FF for N900: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/m | 09:36 |
| tramp | FF for N900: firefox.com/m | 09:37 |
| tramp | What is the best way to find and talk to someone without seeming to stalkerish? | 09:38 |
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| Macer | ok | 09:53 |
| Macer | i remember seeing the picasa sharing plugin having an option to choose which album you put the photos in | 09:53 |
| Macer | where did that go ? is that just a cssu only feature or something? | 09:53 |
| Macer | to find and talk to someone without seeming too stalkerish? use irc :-P | 09:55 |
| Macer | lol | 09:55 |
| Macer | damnit. i need to fix this picasa sharing | 09:56 |
| Macer | it was working so nicely too | 09:56 |
| Macer | i think power kernel and fmtx do not play well together | 09:56 |
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| Macer | nm. i fixed the picasa thing. guess i had testing and not devel at the time | 10:04 |
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| lamah | meego is the next name of maemo? | 11:45 |
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| psycho_oreos | no | 11:48 |
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| lamah | what is a meego | 11:50 |
| lamah | diff os? | 11:50 |
| soltys | meego is meego ;) | 11:51 |
| lamah | ok | 11:51 |
| lamah | :") | 11:51 |
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| lamah | n950, n9 are maemo based? | 11:52 |
| psycho_oreos | they're in between its dubbed as meego but it still runs maemo package management | 11:53 |
| psycho_oreos | hence codenamed harmattan | 11:53 |
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| lamah | only? n900 is maemo based? | 11:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Harmattan is to Fremantle what supermodels are to carthorses. | 11:56 |
| Termana | lamah, The N900 runs Maemo by default, yes. | 11:56 |
| lamah | Termana: there is no new models that runs maemo? | 11:57 |
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| psycho_oreos | N9 technically runs maemo.. with different UI known as `swype' and plagued with aegis | 11:57 |
| lamah | hmm | 11:57 |
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| psycho_oreos | a proper meego device should be using rpm packages, neither does N950 nor N9 uses rpm packages so it basically does not conform to meego standards | 11:58 |
| psycho_oreos | its what little researching can do for you :þ | 11:58 |
| lamah | rpm.. blh, yes... thanks:)) | 12:00 |
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| lamah | psycho_oreos: http://pwnieexpress.com/pwn_phone.html this is n900 based on Maemo i am searching for similar but something new.. But this is the only one option, n900 | 12:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | lamah, there is no new proper maemo based anymore. nokia axed maemo ages ago if you haven't heard the news. They won't even care about harmattan either (which they deliberately dubbed as meego device) | 12:03 |
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| psycho_oreos | in fact nokia only just recently released a security OTA update for fremantle which only fixes that digi* cert flaw | 12:04 |
| lamah | psycho_oreos: yes this is the true and old n810 or whatever... | 12:04 |
| lamah | hmm interesting | 12:04 |
| psycho_oreos | lamah, afaik if they axed maemo, it doesn't matter if you have 770, N800, N810, N810 WiMax edition or even N900. The bottom line is that manufacturer no longer cares that much about maemo | 12:05 |
| ZogG_N9 | B-) | 12:05 |
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| lamah | yeah | 12:05 |
| psycho_oreos | you can put it in whatever ugly phrases you like, N900 joins the rest of the maemo devices which are literally being disowned by nokia. period | 12:06 |
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| ZogG_N9 | psycho_oreos, and your point its? | 12:07 |
| psycho_oreos | ZogG_N9, point is to try and to somehow make it easy for this other person to see what is the news. Who knows what he's being doing all this time :) | 12:08 |
| psycho_oreos | old news but hey, looks like someone didn't bother to notice it | 12:08 |
| ZogG_N9 | pop | 12:08 |
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| ZogG_N9 | damn swype sent it | 12:09 |
| lamah | ZogG_N9: no, he means is this try by nokia is not very successeful in market line | 12:09 |
| ZogG_N9 | agreed | 12:10 |
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| ZogG_N9 | but who cares | 12:10 |
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| ZogG_N9 | its not about that, thats about money and it is more politics than be popular =) | 12:11 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah for a thick headed cave dweller who didn't realise nokia is now microsoft's slut. Wise choice for him to leave too on that parting note | 12:11 |
| ZogG_N9 | psycho_oreos, i disagree | 12:12 |
| psycho_oreos | ZogG_N9, care to elaborate? | 12:12 |
| ZogG_N9 | as most companie's politics shitty | 12:12 |
| ZogG_N9 | sony is a bitch, but i still prefer ps3 over xbox | 12:13 |
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| psycho_oreos | ZogG_N9, I'm not concerned about internal political games. In fact I never will unless I have shares in that company. If the company is nokia I would have long ago withdrew my money when Flop came about. The bottom line is that I'm an outsider and that's all I care about. Facts are facts, its not like you simply cannot deny it when you saw it in action | 12:14 |
| ZogG_N9 | and there is no more linux officially, they've been hacked, no respect to us, but i still buy them | 12:14 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah flawed logic thinking.. that statement is full of holes | 12:14 |
| ZogG_N9 | i see, i know and understand | 12:15 |
| psycho_oreos | linux is just a kernel, if its hacked its the core kernel.. but so what? it gets patched | 12:15 |
| psycho_oreos | How is linux no respect to you? linux is just a kernel, it doesn't like or dislike people. This isn't facebook. | 12:15 |
| ZogG_N9 | but not whinning about it, as i can do nothing and its always my chooise what phone to buy | 12:15 |
| psycho_oreos | of course, nobody can place any influence on you | 12:16 |
| psycho_oreos | or any one of us :P | 12:16 |
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| ZogG_N9 | psycho_oreos, i was talking about ps3 than | 12:16 |
| psycho_oreos | ZogG_N9, and that would contradict your last statement about your phone. PS3 isn't a phone :) | 12:17 |
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| ZogG | psycho_oreos, `it doesn't matter phone or not | 12:18 |
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| ZogG | there are always few companies | 12:18 |
| ZogG | and few of them are better than others | 12:18 |
| ZogG | and you choose one you like and buy the phone | 12:18 |
| psycho_oreos | ZogG, and I still fail to see how is discussion about sory related to maemo at all. Sure you can hack it to run linux but that's got nothing to do with maemo | 12:19 |
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| ZogG | but they see things different sometimes but as YUO choosed them, they still don't OWAN you to go now the way you want | 12:19 |
| aholler | the future of linux on smartphone seems to be what motorola starts with atrix. | 12:20 |
| ZogG | it's not about linux | 12:21 |
| psycho_oreos | of course, nobody had to force nokia not to recruit Flop. AGAIN that is not my point. I'm not mocking over their chosen person but rather their CURRENT stance. | 12:21 |
| jonwil | I still think the N900 is the best cellphone ever made. | 12:21 |
| jonwil | and I will keep using mine as long as it can continue to make phonecalls | 12:22 |
| psycho_oreos | N900 isn't a phone, but many joe blo assumes just because N900 has phone functionality its been rationalised as a smartphone despite its usual lacking features of what a smartphone is meant to be. | 12:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd say the nokia 3310 is arguably better. | 12:22 |
| jonwil | what features is it missing? | 12:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I can sit on it, and get up because it hurts my arse, not because I've worried that I've shattered it. | 12:23 |
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| psycho_oreos | no MMS support natively (FMMS does not count), portrait mode for almost everywhere (CSSU/MHD does not count, nor does any other hacks), etc | 12:24 |
| jonwil | I dont care about MMS or portrait mode | 12:25 |
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| jonwil | I like the N900 because it does all things I need in a cellphone | 12:26 |
| psycho_oreos | So if other smartphones has it, they're not called smartphones but smartphones with MMS and portrait mode? :) | 12:26 |
| jonwil | original iPhone didnt have MMS | 12:26 |
| psycho_oreos | I like N900 because it has a proper linux environment with a portion of phone's functionality | 12:26 |
| jonwil | and no-one would deny that's a phone | 12:27 |
| psycho_oreos | but iPhone has the words phone written in it :) | 12:27 |
| psycho_oreos | yet it still does native portrait mode | 12:27 |
| jonwil | its all semantics IMO, what matters is not what its labeled, its whether it has the features you need | 12:28 |
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| psycho_oreos | Unfortunately the reality is different, most smartphones seem to have common traits. Sure its not like you don't use it and therefore its not something that it can't be counted as one. Contrary to that the missing functionality is weird to not have it is it not? | 12:30 |
| jonwil | I like the N900 because its the closest thing yet invented to a linux system in your pocket\ | 12:31 |
| jonwil | that also does SMS, calls and 3G data | 12:32 |
| psycho_oreos | and you could really go into discussing about that modded N810 that could almost function as a smartphone. Surely that N810 cannot be called a smartphone now that it has a SIM slot? :) | 12:32 |
| jonwil | no the N810 wont count because the hardware was added later. Just like you cant call a laptop a "mobile device" just because you use a 3G USB dongle with it | 12:32 |
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| LaoLang_cool | which app do you use to show picture? | 12:33 |
| Jartza | laptop is mobile device even without 3G dongle :) | 12:33 |
| psycho_oreos | Hardware or software are all relatively identical meanings to me. | 12:33 |
| jonwil | in any case I intend to spend some tonight continuing my work on the N900 virtual keyboard stuff | 12:33 |
| LaoLang_cool | built-in file manager can't show the pic in original size right? | 12:33 |
| Jartza | "mobile device" does not have to have a connectivity | 12:34 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool, the point is why would you want to? If you have a really huge photo (like 4000x4000 pixels) which obviously N900 cannot show it all in that small screen, you must still have it all viewed somehow? | 12:35 |
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| LaoLang_cool | psycho_oreos: I can drag the mouse to show parts of pic, but if the pic resized to fit screen, I can't see the details because it's so small | 12:36 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Then the pic is no useable at all | 12:36 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool, then you should be looking at image/photo editors. There's a few around such as mypaint for instance | 12:37 |
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| LaoLang_cool | psycho_oreos: thanks for recommended, I will take a look | 12:37 |
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| ZogG | ruskie is dead? =) | 14:54 |
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| * DocScrutinizer reads backscroll and frowns | 15:27 | |
| psycho_oreos | :o | 15:28 |
| jonwil | what, the argument over whether an N900 is a phone or not? | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp ZogG 's last post | 15:29 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, hey baby | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | and about "modified N810" | 15:30 |
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| bash` | hi all | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | blue_led did an incredible job on modding an N810 | 15:30 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer N810-BL? | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | The first maemo phone. | 15:31 |
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| bash` | I'm getting a very strange behavior with my N900: if I don't use it for 2-3 minutes, and there're no applications running...it shutdown! | 15:31 |
| ZogG | it's bored | 15:32 |
| bash` | :) | 15:32 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, running out of power? some program you installed is buggy? | 15:32 |
| ZogG | dmesg? | 15:32 |
| bash` | really, any idea about? | 15:32 |
| ZogG | what does dmesg says | 15:32 |
| norayr | SpeedEvil: not the phone, not the first :P | 15:32 |
| bash` | psycho_oreos: I reflashed it and it still shutdown | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | bash`: any special lockscreen installed? | 15:32 |
| bash` | no, but I'm using the SSU | 15:32 |
| ZogG | CSSU you mean/ | 15:32 |
| bash` | yes :) | 15:33 |
| kerio | is there a way to flash fiasco+combined from meego? | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | bash`: It sounds like a random error report | 15:34 |
| bash` | yes unfortunately | 15:34 |
| bash` | could be a battery fault? | 15:35 |
| bash` | (battery is the original one) | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | wouldn't explain why it only shuts down when not in iuse | 15:35 |
| psycho_oreos | dmesg would be very useful imo | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:35 |
| bash` | psycho_oreos: ok, I'm nopasting it | 15:35 |
| bash` | pls wait | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | not dmesg but syslog | 15:36 |
| bash` | I guess I don't have syslog installed | 15:36 |
| bash` | installing syslog, then I close all my windows and we wait it to shutdown :) | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 15:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer goes preparing some coffee, so maybe the day looks a bit brighter then | 15:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart ZogG | 15:40 |
| * infobot moos at ZogG | 15:40 | |
| ZogG | =) | 15:40 |
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| * ZogG prepares popcorn | 15:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I really hate reading "XY is dead?" first thing after I resumed | 15:41 |
| HaXeri | my n900 camera seems odd | 15:41 |
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| HaXeri | cant start any camera-related application for ex. flashlight | 15:41 |
| SpeedEvil | In what way? | 15:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Does it make everyone look like Justin Bieber? | 15:42 |
| HaXeri | tells me that camera is already being used by some other program | 15:42 |
| HaXeri | i killed one camera-ui proccess wich i saw in top but no effect | 15:42 |
| SpeedEvil | There should be a camera-ui process | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Have you playerd with flashlight app? | 15:43 |
| HaXeri | no | 15:43 |
| HaXeri | but it has worked before | 15:43 |
| HaXeri | I've lately installed enchanged linux kernel for power users and I dont remember if successfully used camera after installing it | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | however high you are | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | or however low life gets you | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | or if the iPhone is the last mobile ever | 15:45 |
| MohammadAG | Don't fucking get one | 15:45 |
| psycho_oreos | epic +1 | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: :-D | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | made my day | 15:45 |
| MohammadAG | I woke up to a dead phone | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | HaXeri: uninstall and reinstall all camera apps | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | I went to take a shower, locked the phone, got out of the shower, dead phone | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | the OS is locked down, you can't debug shit | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | installed sysklogd on it, let's see what happens next | 15:47 |
| HaXeri | DocScrutinizer: okay, can I reinstall the original camera app too? | 15:47 |
| woldrich | debugging shit... hm | 15:47 |
| MohammadAG | cause shit has bugs sometimes | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | HaXeri: no need, just all fcam, bessn900 and what not else | 15:47 |
| woldrich | your shit, perhaps. not mine. | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | HaXeri: it's the drivers that come with those "better cams" that don't match your kernel | 15:48 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, the other day one of me workmate wanted to send this hand drawn tattoo image from his iPhone via bluetooth. Guess what? he couldn't. I tried pairing with him, even tried sending some random pre-recorded voice and it all fails. Apple's DRM at its finest | 15:48 |
| HaXeri | okay, I already removed my fcam | 15:49 |
| HaXeri | so installing it again will take a effect | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ^^^ | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | cam drivers renewal? | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | HaXeri: though - honestly - it's a very well known problem of power kernel and dealt with in the FAQ, probably top in FAQ | 15:53 |
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| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, you need to JB it | 15:56 |
| MohammadAG | but apple's locking down all methods to that | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | JB? | 15:57 |
| psycho_oreos | jailbreak | 15:57 |
| kerio | jailbreak | 15:57 |
| kerio | dammit | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos wins the round | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | kerio eliminated | 15:57 |
| kerio | something something relativity something something | 15:57 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | does anyone know where i may be able to find a replacement screen and possibly digitizer for a nokia n810 except for ebay? | 15:58 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, I know, I told him that before and he has done it once but he finds its better to stick to stock config | 15:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer is winner cos not knowing useless BS bout fruitphone | 15:58 | |
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| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, tbh, the iPhone's a toy without a JB | 15:58 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, a feeble one at that to be frank :) | 15:59 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | DocScrutinizer: you're a winner because your mamma said so ;) | 15:59 |
| * AlmightyOatmeal giggles then hides | 15:59 | |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 15:59 |
| * psycho_oreos watches DocScrutinizer flares up :o | 15:59 | |
| * MohammadAG sshs into iPhone | 15:59 | |
| MohammadAG | oh right, no tools like top/ps :/ | 16:00 |
| * AlmightyOatmeal wishes he could ssh into his other nokia n810, well, he could, but the display is still broken and reduces the portability aspect | 16:00 | |
| kerio | MohammadAG: tbh, an Android phone is a toy without a rooting | 16:01 |
| kerio | AlmightyOatmeal: cheap homeserver with internal UPS gogogo | 16:01 |
| kerio | well, "cheap" | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | oh ffs | 16:02 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | kerio: lmao, what can i possibly do with a 400mhz mips cpu on my home network? | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | no /var/log/syslog | 16:02 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | that's not even fast enough to dispense toilet paper | 16:02 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | :P | 16:02 |
| kerio | AlmightyOatmeal: bittorrent *all* the things! _o/ | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | AlmightyOatmeal, given you're having diarrheoa, yes | 16:02 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | kerio: torrent what things? that's what i have a laptop and a server for :P | 16:03 |
| kerio | oh, you already have a server | 16:03 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | torrent off the nokia n810, lol, store all the goodies on a microsd card? silly pants :) | 16:03 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: you can install those | 16:03 |
| kerio | AlmightyOatmeal: doesn't the n810 have a usb port? | 16:04 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, I installed syslogd, no syslog file | 16:04 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | kerio: not the best server in the world, 64 bit celeron with 2T storage array | 16:04 |
| MohammadAG | and the syslogd is just an /etc/syslog.conf file | 16:04 |
| kerio | boo hoo | 16:04 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: there is htop, gcc, etc, in cydia, look for them :P | 16:04 |
| kerio | my server is a sheevaplug with a 1tb usb hd | 16:04 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | kerio: yes it does have a usb port.. what i used my other n810 for was a gps, web browser, and ebook reader.. hard to do all of the above with a cracked display :P | 16:04 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | kerio: ha | 16:05 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | your server sound adorable ^.^ | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, no htop :p | 16:05 |
| kerio | it is ^.^ | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /mkick | 16:05 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | hehe | 16:05 |
| kerio | it also requires... about no power | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | /kick DocScrutinizer gives the same effect :P | 16:06 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: interesting I had htop on mine | 16:06 |
| * AlmightyOatmeal pets DocScrutinizer | 16:06 | |
| hiemanshu | I know there is top, and htop and other stuff | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | some results for top | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | Topless Babe Pink Panties theme | 16:07 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | kerio: true.. but i'm sure the IOPS of my server would probably be higher.. | 16:07 |
| kerio | AlmightyOatmeal: sure, but i only have a 20/1 connection anyway | 16:07 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | i've been wanthing to switch to a nice dual xeon, that thing would draw a nice amount of power | 16:07 |
| kerio | yeah, but what for? | 16:07 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | kerio: my fileserver is also a development box and hashtable generator | 16:08 |
| kerio | my fileserver also downloads movies and videogames | 16:08 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | i figure when i'm not watching the matrix trilogy in hd or harry potter, i might as well use the spare cpu cycles | 16:08 |
| kerio | i win | 16:08 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | hehe, i use my gf's laptop for that, i've been planning on moving everything over to a headless deluge configuration on a dedicated interface, but the problem is, i have no hdd space left on it | 16:09 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | my array has been overflowing for the past 6 months and i've been cycling old data off it :'( | 16:09 |
| kerio | buy more hard disks dude | 16:10 |
| kerio | deleting stuff is for wimps | 16:10 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | heh, if i could i would. i'm a digital hoarder without hdd space | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, the tough guys don't find stuff in their petabyte of random shit | 16:10 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | that's what the locate database is for ;) | 16:11 |
| kerio | mamedev don't care about your hard disk space | 16:11 |
| psycho_oreos | at least you could surprise people with the amount of storage you have in your boxen | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | but they all swear no matter what it is they got it *somewhere* | 16:11 |
| kerio | mamedev don't give a fuck | 16:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: the latest TOSEC takes 3.12 TB | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd surprise mo only with a hexdump on paper of *all* the stuff you heard | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/mo/me/ | 16:13 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: you'd surprise me only with a hexdump on paper of *all* the stuff you heard | 16:13 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: mame 0.143 takes 253gb | 16:13 |
| * DocScrutinizer watches load of wolfram alpha hit the roof | 16:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | what's all that shit? rainbow tables? | 16:15 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: TOSEC is pretty much every game ever released for every console ever | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so also a rainbow table XP | 16:15 |
| kerio | huh, not only games apparently | 16:16 |
| kerio | there's zx spectrum applications | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | who by the love of god was so insane to download 3TB of data for *anything*? | 16:17 |
| kerio | often you just grab the parts you want | 16:17 |
| kerio | i only have the full mame romset | 16:17 |
| * AlmightyOatmeal grabs kerio | 16:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | just to find that space invaders for zx spectrum doesn't work as it's a fake | 16:17 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: stop spreading FUD please | 16:18 |
| kerio | TOSEC doesn't even give you download links | 16:18 |
| kerio | it's just a massive database | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: stop loading my network with nonsense shit please | 16:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer re-positions some geostationary x-ray lasers | 16:19 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: http://www.tosecdev.org/ | 16:19 |
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| * DocScrutinizer traceroutes kerio and drops the national network there for 5 min | 16:20 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: why u mad tho | 16:21 |
| kerio | moving bits around is what the internet is about! | 16:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer is skynet | 16:21 | |
| * AlmightyOatmeal jacks into the matrix | 16:21 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: what should we use the internet for? | 16:21 |
| kerio | *more* cat pictures? | 16:21 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | of course not | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I *love* cat pictures | 16:22 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | the internet is for 241543903 (google images that) | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.pennystore/joerg900.10129 MOAR KITTEN PICS | 16:23 |
| * jonwil thinks doing research on the N900 virtual keyboard is a valid use of the internet :P | 16:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | OT fun stuff factoid: it *seems* suspend-to-disk fails epically on linux when your used RAM is larger than your _free_ swap space | 16:27 |
| merlin1991 | hm what does it whithout swap? | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | freeze | 16:28 |
| SpeedEvil | It suspends to swap typically. | 16:28 |
| SpeedEvil | hence... | 16:28 |
| kerio | so the suspension fails with an OOM? | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | kinda | 16:28 |
| kerio | *OOM error | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | it simply stalls | 16:28 |
| kerio | couldn't it kill shit? | 16:28 |
| norayr | MohammadAG: toggle camera application just disables the camera-ui application and daemon, right? it does not unload camera drivers so other applications, such an FCamera will continue to work. | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | it *could* but doesn't - at least here | 16:29 |
| ShadowJK | it probably never reaches oom situation, things slow down too much before that | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | even then it probably would kill the swap-suspender first | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | as that's the only not-stopped process basically, at that time | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I've seen that happening some times | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | not last time I tried suspend to disk though | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | norayr: yes | 16:33 |
| norayr | thanks | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | norayr: the drivers are shared between *all* cam/video apps - that's why all cam related apps break when you update kernel | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | drivers never get unloaded AFAIK | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | norayr: see backscroll some 60 min, we had that topic recently | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | (though I have to confess I never wrapped my head around it why updating (to) PK doesn't install the right camera kernel modules right away, and how T F fcam et all "install" kernel drivers, and even the right ones for the kernel you are using) | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | it feels kinda insane to ship a kernel module in a userland package called e.g fcam | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, who knows with what a crap I would've come up when hostmode patches could have gone to *.ko rather than the core kernel | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | musb_hdrc being monolithic saved me from doing such botch | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel module handling is a bit awkward in linux | 16:43 |
| jonwil | bah, libhildon-im-vkbrenderer is annoying to figure out (so it can be cloned) | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: you'll do it, according to your posts during last week :-D | 16:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you always bitch a lot, then come up with awesome stuff :-) | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: btw I had same screit-moments with bme | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | screw-it-moments | 16:45 |
| jonwil | its mostly complex because I cant find anyone who knows the first thing about GTK and can help me | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | GTK is a dieing art it seems, yeah | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | dying* | 16:49 |
| woldrich | yes please, die | 16:50 |
| woldrich | it doesn't matter what language you want to use, if you want to code gtk you'll have to code gtk | 16:50 |
| * DocScrutinizer summons wizards of GTK to obsess the heretics | 16:51 | |
| woldrich | also, why does EVERYTHING have to be HUGE in gtk? It really looks like shit, even compared to Windows | 16:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maemo was mighty with GTK, it was still great with Qt, it was unnoticable with meego | 16:52 |
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| jonwil | hmmm, I think the best answer is to document all the exported functions and classes and etc that libhildon-im-vkbrenderer uses and publish that info | 16:52 |
| jonwil | and let some GTK guy write some code behind it to render the VKB the way they want | 16:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: sounds like a professional's approach | 16:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | do things where you know you excel, outsource the rest not to waste time on thinks you are not good in or interested to learn | 16:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | things* | 16:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | following this approach lead to me finding "my genes" in details of maybe 30% of meamo apps though not even h-e-n has my nametag on boilerplate | 16:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | otoh *#-ena has my boilerplate and I did *nothing* for it, except packaging and even that was mostly done by MohammadAG ;-P - well I bitched at Nokia about cmt needs the full set of GSM control codes supported and konttori listened to me :-) | 17:02 |
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| AlmightyOatmeal | does anyone here have a cisco account where they can grab me the latest firmware for a 1142N wap? | 17:15 |
| AlmightyOatmeal | i would love them a long time | 17:15 |
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| * AlmightyOatmeal is still looking for a replacement screen for a nokia n810 | 18:02 | |
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| neal | DocScrutinizer: Do you know the maximum throughput that the micro sd controller can handle? I have a class 10 card. On my think pad, I can write to it between 10-12MB/s. On my n900, I get just 4-5 MB/s. | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no data on that available off top of my head | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | neal: I think the clock speed negotiated with the card is a limiting factor | 18:13 |
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| neal | The depressing part is I get 5-6 MB/s using the internal flash. | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | what in turn will determine the the clock speed when controller negotiates with card is a complex topic | 18:14 |
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| neal | I can imagine | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you probably should ask ShadowJK, as afaik he's relly knowledgable about this particular stuff | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe also jacekowski | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and/or SpeedEvil | 18:16 |
| ShadowJK | I've seen far over 10megabytes/sec from the internal mmc, reads | 18:16 |
| neal | ShadowJK: I was only considering writes. | 18:16 |
| ShadowJK | echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests and mmcblk1 speeds up things a bit for me | 18:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer idly ponders if it was a nice concept and what it would need to make " echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk*/queue/nr_requests" syntax work | 18:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | neal: generally on write to MMC there are other bottlenecks than exactly the controller that limit the throughput | 18:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | buzzword page erase | 18:21 |
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| neal | DocScrutinizer: I think the bottle neck is the N900 | 18:22 |
| neal | DocScrutinizer: On my thinkpad I get about twice the write throughput | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it basically boild down to the fact that writes to mmc can vary in time they take by a factor of 10^4 to 10^6 (estimated), depending on things like sequence of particular writes etc | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's not the hw that limits the write bandwidth, it's basically entirely related to io scheduler and the logic used therein | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and how well that logic matches your particular usecase as well as the actualy hw found *inside* the MMC | 18:25 |
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| neal | I'm not sure what you are telling me answers my question. | 18:26 |
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| neal | Use the same benchmark, I get different performance when the card is in my n900 and in my thinkpad | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | a page erase can take in the range of dozens of ms, and it makes a hell of a difference if it has to be done for each byte written, or once every 256kB | 18:27 |
| neal | my block size was 1 MB | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | neal: you're maybe using the same benchmark, but are you using the same MMC kernel driver? Same IO scheduler? | 18:28 |
| mgedmin | Philip Langdale was blogging interesting posts about MMC write performance on Maemo | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same parameters of /sys/block/mmcblk*/*/* | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 18:28 |
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| mgedmin | but that was in Maemo 4 times: http://intr.overt.org/5.2008.43-mmc-kernel/README | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: :-D thanks mate | 18:29 |
| neal | interesting | 18:30 |
| neal | I wonder if the power kernel has integrated similar changes | 18:30 |
| mgedmin | the blog is here: http://intr.overt.org/blog/?cat=4&paged=2 | 18:30 |
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| Juozapas | /j archlinux | 18:32 |
| Juozapas | sorry | 18:32 |
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| ShadowJK | 13 megabytes/sec read, 7Megabytes/sec write. Transcend Class 6 | 18:32 |
| neal | ShadowJK: What was your benchmark? | 18:32 |
| ShadowJK | dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/test bs=1M count=1024 | 18:33 |
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| neal | and that is only with your buffer size change? | 18:34 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 18:35 |
| neal | ShadowJK: Did you sync? | 18:36 |
| ShadowJK | I have ext3 on mmc1, which is nonoptimal for write throughput. It peaks at 10Megabytes/sec until it comes time to update the journal and metadata, which consists of a few small writes, and that's slow, so speed drops to 1 Megabyte/s when it's doing that | 18:36 |
| neal | I did: time sh -c '/usr/bin/gnu/dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/foo count=1k bs=1M; sync' | 18:37 |
| dangergrrl | i have a pc with no wifi, running gentoo, where i am at i have no cell service, can i use the n900 as a wifi adapter until i go buy one? | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, theoretically yes | 18:38 |
| neal | dangergrrl: The power kernel has nat modules, as I understand it | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep, you'll need those, plus usb-networking | 18:39 |
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| dangergrrl | seems like it should work if i knew how :) | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | get usb-networking up so you can ssh from PC to N900 and vice versa, via USB | 18:41 |
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| ShadowJK | neal, average speed including ext3 braindeadedness and sync 5.2Mbytes/sec | 18:42 |
| dangergrrl | i think i saw a doc on using the usb networking to tether to gsm, in theory the same would work for wlan0 | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | then follow instructions to share LAN internet of PC to N900 (buzzword ip forwarding), just apply the commands meant for PC to your N900 instead | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | dangergrrl, sadly, no | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | GSM tethering is supported out of the box | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | WiFi isn't | 18:42 |
| ShadowJK | time for "sync" after rm test: 4 seconds | 18:42 |
| neal | ShadowJK: I like being able to recover :-) | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | for GSM tethering the Nokia pretends to be a traditional USB modem | 18:43 |
| neal | ShadowJK: May be we need a logging file system... | 18:43 |
| ShadowJK | neal, yes, yes we do | 18:43 |
| neal | ShadowJK: But I want reliability :) | 18:43 |
| * ShadowJK uses LogFS on his sheevaplug's usb flash | 18:43 | |
| mgedmin | to share a Wifi connection you need either NAT (which the standard kernel doesn't have), or a poor man's solution like the built-in SSH SOCKS proxy | 18:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ssh socks porixy, good call | 18:45 |
| dangergrrl | but there are something like 5 ways to do gsm tethering, one seemed similar enough, the modem one makes the n900 unable to use it's own net | 18:45 |
| ShadowJK | that's operator-dependent | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | gangyes, and modem approach isn't applicable to AP | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: ^^^ | 18:46 |
| dangergrrl | one method used usb networking and the n900 appears as an eth0, i have the power kernel | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: you already got all the bits of info you need: USB-networking plus NAT based IP forwarding | 18:47 |
| dangergrrl | ok, thanks :) | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | now I remember why I havent benchmarked these "spare" Class 10s | 18:48 |
| * ShadowJK goes find a drill or something to open the fucking blisterpacks | 18:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | just follow the instructions under "sharing your PC internet to N900 over USB", just do all the setup meant for PC on your N900 instead | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | except those related to mere USB network setup | 18:49 |
| neal | ShadowJK: If you are going to use a class 10 card, you might need a different opma_hsmmc module. | 18:49 |
| neal | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=72789 | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | as you rPC still is hosat and N900 still gadget, from a USB POV | 18:50 |
| neal | and http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?p=1122330&postcount=69 | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | ah yes, the typical Kingston "almost SD" | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | as your PC still is host and N900 still gadget, from a USB POV | 18:50 |
| neal | ShadowJK: I don't understand the kingston comment... | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | they make cards that almost comply to the microsdhc spec | 18:51 |
| ShadowJK | almost :-) | 18:51 |
| neal | I have a transcend card, which exhibits that problem | 18:51 |
| ShadowJK | they're kinda same breed | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, how I hate those Itt URLS! please use http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72789 instead | 18:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | neal: I've seen >11M/s on the internal mmc, and the SD card - at the sme time | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | 22M/s aggregate | 18:56 |
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| * ShadowJK yawns | 18:59 | |
| ShadowJK | getting very slow performance on a Kingston Class 10, no errors in dmesg though | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | The above performance was on a very cheap kingston 1G card | 19:00 |
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| ShadowJK | heh. Kingston Class 10: 15minutes47 sec dd, 31s sync | 19:10 |
| * AlmightyOatmeal throws in a tic-tac as ShadowJK yawns | 19:11 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: no surprise, as both use a dedicated HW IF aka controller | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | wohooo | 19:16 |
| MohammadAG | Israel forced a law that all phones must be unlocked | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 19:16 |
| ShadowJK | Transcend Class 10: 3m19s + sync 12s. | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | or detonated X-P | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | at customs | 19:17 |
| MohammadAG | oh yeah, all phones sold in Israel :p | 19:17 |
| ShadowJK | .. which makes the Class 10 transcend slightly slower than the Class 6 Transcend.. | 19:17 |
| * ShadowJK isn't entirely surprised | 19:17 | |
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| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: neat! | 19:18 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: I don't suppose it extends to bootloaders? | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | what was the evil master of uSD now? transcend or kingston? | 19:18 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, I don't think they know what bootloaders are | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. who was selling crap only? | 19:19 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Sure - if you can get an argument past a judge that the law really means bootloaders too, ... | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I bet that relates to SIMlock only | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | their idea of "unlocked" is unrelated to ours | 19:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - yes. | 19:20 |
| SpeedEvil | However, laws are often badly draftd, and do not say what the lawmakers think they do. | 19:20 |
| SpeedEvil | This can occasionally be to your advantage. | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | not for | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~isreal-sucks | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~israel-sucks | 19:21 |
| infobot | israel-sucks is, like, http://www.dhl.com/content/g0/en/express/tracking.shtml?brand=DHL&AWB=6936258346%0D%0A | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | though | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and o way to use this "unlock" as a leverage to make any manuf open up their sourcecode | 19:23 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, kingston is the source-from-everyone-brand-as-Kingston | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I laways confuse it when transcend comes in | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno why | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | note to self: "King-ston == King of Shit a metric ton" | 19:24 |
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| dlirit | morning | 20:00 |
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| dangergrrl | usb networking is up, i have 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4 as nameservers on pc and route add -net default gw 192.168.2.14 usb0 | 20:11 |
| dangergrrl | and echo 1 into the /proc/sys/...ip_forwarding on n900 | 20:12 |
| dlirit | I've been wondering, does n810 support power/charging through usb or only through the charger it comes with? | 20:12 |
| Sicelo | btw, who is 4.4.4.4? my n900 returns host does not exist | 20:13 |
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| dlirit | Sicelo: it's google's dns | 20:14 |
| dangergrrl | and two iptables commands on the n900 | 20:14 |
| Sicelo | thought it was 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 | 20:14 |
| dangergrrl | 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4 i think are google dns but i could have the second one wrong | 20:15 |
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| * dlirit thought I have just said that | 20:17 | |
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| dangergrrl | maybe it is 8.8.4.4 :) ping gets 8.8.8.8 and not 4.4.4.4 | 20:18 |
| valerius | dangergrrl 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, not 4.4.4.4 | 20:19 |
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| dangergrrl | anyhow i have iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT; iptables -a POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.2.0/24 on n900 | 20:22 |
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| dangergrrl | and my pc gets host unreachable | 20:22 |
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| dangergrrl | maybe one of those is wrong | 20:23 |
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| neal | did you enable ip forwarding? | 20:25 |
| dangergrrl | i am guessing it is something simple | 20:25 |
| dangergrrl | yes | 20:25 |
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| neal | on my router, I have | 20:25 |
| neal | up echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward | 20:25 |
| neal | up iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE | 20:25 |
| neal | down iptables -t nat -D POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE | 20:25 |
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| dangergrrl | tried that with usb0 instead of ppp0 and still get !H on traceroute 8.8.8.8 | 20:31 |
| mgedmin | no, you need that on wlan0, not usb0 | 20:32 |
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| dangergrrl | oh | 20:32 |
| mgedmin | and remove it from usb0 | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: pm? | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | m? | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | yes, the hours are in the P.M. over here | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | or what did you mean? | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ -> search xxx -> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=xxxxx /// http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ -> search xxxxx -> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/search?q=xxxx -> 404 | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | augh willfix | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 20:34 |
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| mgedmin | oh dear I'm logging 11 channels | 20:35 |
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| mgedmin | I need 5 lines of apache config for each search page | 20:35 |
| dangergrrl | sigh, will have to try later, thx for the help anyhow :) | 20:36 |
| * mgedmin attempts to refactor | 20:37 | |
| * mgedmin forgot the exact syntax for rewrite rules | 20:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer | thnaks for providing the most nice irc logger to be found anywhere | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | I've seen nicer logs (but not the tools they were built with) | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm only missing wrapping of long lines :-D | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer: should be fixed now for all channels | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually no, usually they are wrapped | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | wrapping -- me too! show me how to wrap them in HTML | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | it's huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugesinglewords that are usually URLs that cause problems | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: again | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2011-11-12T00:09:33 <- OK | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | I'm thinking of inserting zero-width spaces after each /, which would break copy-paste maybe, but links are already linkified... | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | so you can right-click and copy link address | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | EHLO gentlemen. What's cooking tonight? | 20:43 |
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| mgedmin | how do you insert a zero-width space in HTML? some unicode character? | 20:44 |
| mgedmin | use a soft hyphen maybe? | 20:44 |
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| jargon- | how do i change the background color in bash3 on the n900? | 21:17 |
| jargon- | and text color too, of course | 21:18 |
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| neal | jargon-: That has to do with your terminal, not bash | 21:26 |
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| jargon- | neal: how do i do the colors in my terminal? | 21:35 |
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| Sicelo | xterm title bar, Font | 21:37 |
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| PBeck | hello, i have a problem with my n900. I have deinstalled the package mscim and a few others with the same prefix and now all widgets have no translations anymore - thats means the clock shows for example - wdgt_va_24h_time. I think the problem is that the language support is not installed correctly anymore. Which packages i have to install for english and german language support? | 22:03 |
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| PBeck | locale-archives is defect i a way, i think? | 22:05 |
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| PBeck | perhaps somebody can share his locales-archive to check if that solve the problem | 22:19 |
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| * mgedmin goes to find his n900 | 22:23 | |
| PBeck | mgedmin: oh what happend? You have not replaced it?! :p | 22:24 |
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| mgedmin | sort of ;) | 22:24 |
| PBeck | the good stable brick :) | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | the N9 is gorgeous | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | and weighs less | 22:24 |
| neal | I'm attached to me N900 | 22:24 |
| neal | s/me/my/ | 22:24 |
| infobot | neal meant: I'm attached to my N900 | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | (most importantly, 1 gig of ram makes it not slow down like the 256 mb n900 used to) | 22:24 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: yes the weight - you are right. The N9 will not be selled officially at germany from the providers | 22:25 |
| mgedmin | I've had this experience with every nokia tablet: disappointment (but I liked the old one better!), trial, acceptance, love | 22:25 |
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| neal | PBeck: You can get it on amazon | 22:26 |
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| PBeck | mgedmin: yes sometimes i hate it to wait a long time, when 10 browser windows are open. The problem is - the browser will be killed and i have no restore function :/ | 22:26 |
| NIN101 | aeigs! no microsd slot! no hw keyboard!!1!one | 22:26 |
| PBeck | neal: yes but i think it's the only seller in germany | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | neal, http://pastie.org/2853745 is a list of all debian packages installed on my n900 | 22:27 |
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| PBeck | or perhaps a few other online shops - but i dont know why nokia not sell it officially? The microsoft deal is perhaps a problem? | 22:27 |
| neal | mgedmin: You're missing woodchuck :-) | 22:28 |
| * mgedmin guesses it has something to do with the inferior Lumia 800 looking almost exactly the same | 22:28 | |
| mgedmin | oh, is that you, Neal? | 22:28 |
| mgedmin | hi! | 22:28 |
| PBeck | is the n9 the samle hackable as the n900? | 22:29 |
| PBeck | *same | 22:29 |
| * neal waves. | 22:29 | |
| NIN101 | ~aegis | 22:29 |
| infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 22:29 |
| neal | mgedmin: Are there so many neals :) | 22:30 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: hum i think the l10n packages are all installed | 22:32 |
| mgedmin | Dr. Horrible is a Neal :) | 22:32 |
| PBeck | perhaps you can share your /usr/lib/locales-archive? | 22:32 |
| * AlmightyOatmeal starts neal on fire | 22:32 | |
| PBeck | /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive | 22:32 |
| neal | mgedmin: Who's that? | 22:32 |
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| * mgedmin keeps forgetting his n900's hostname is mg-n900-2 | 22:33 | |
| mgedmin | you haven't seen Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-long Blog? my, are you in for a treat! | 22:33 |
| neal | hmm, he's actually a neil | 22:33 |
| * mgedmin fails at spelling | 22:33 | |
| mgedmin | PBeck, -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 23911920 Feb 19 2010 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | md5sum: 0c0677ff23708192bc8e46187d9dedcf | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | dpkg -S says it belongs to posix-locales | 22:35 |
| PBeck | hum ok then i will check if a reinstall works | 22:35 |
| mgedmin | do you have that file? does it have different size/md5sum? | 22:36 |
| PBeck | i think it differs from the languages installed | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | the list of packages I pastebin'd was produced with dpkg-query -W --showformat '${STATUS} ${PACKAGE}\n'|grep ' installed '|cut -d ' ' -f 4- | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | you could diff yours with mine | 22:37 |
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| PBeck | ok wait one momemt | 22:38 |
| PBeck | -n + m | 22:38 |
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| dangergrrl | sigh | 22:44 |
| dangergrrl | iptables hates me | 22:45 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: ok looks very similar - the same from the system files | 22:47 |
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| PBeck | mgedmin: can you share your locale-archives` | 22:50 |
| PBeck | ? | 22:50 |
| jrayhawk | dangergrrl: http://www.aptalaska.net/~jclive/IPTablesFlowChart.pdf first make sure you have this | 22:50 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: oh it has worked | 22:50 |
| mgedmin | good | 22:51 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: you are a hero :) apt-get --reinstall install posix-locales was the right command | 22:51 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: so a big thank you for the tipp with posix-locales | 22:51 |
| mgedmin | I've no idea how it could've broken | 22:52 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: at the forum all people solved the problem with flashing - but that would be crazy, so it was a good idea to come to the maemo channel :) | 22:52 |
| mgedmin | flashing is a good solution because it'll almost always work | 22:53 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: perhaps mscim has broken it - was support for chinese language, dont know | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | hm | 22:54 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: yeah of course. But thats normally a easy problem, when a package is broken and we know that the file locales-archive is broken | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | I'd need to look at its postinst scripts to find out | 22:54 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: now i have learned that i can search with dpkg -S for a package thats contains a specific file :) | 22:56 |
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| mgedmin | most useful dpkg/apt commands: apt-cache search, apt-cache policy, dpkg -S, dpkg -L | 22:57 |
| mgedmin | (not counting apt-get install and such) | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/search?q=##topic-11-18 for some strange reason doesn't do the search | 22:59 |
| PBeck | mgedmin: yep right, thank you | 23:00 |
| PBeck | hi DocScrutinizer | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: I gather it might need najor structure changes of how apache works there to get it done | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/search?q=%23%23topic-11-18 | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: so maybe just ignore this | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | I will | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | after I make fun of you for entering URLs manually and forgetting that # separates the URL from the anchor :) | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn transcoding | 23:01 |
| PBeck | btw is cssu ready for stable use? | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought as much, and clicking on the URL does partial transcoding to #%23 here | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | bug in konqueror/KDE I guess | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | or in Konversation | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | really obscure issue | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PBeck: Stable branch of CSSU is under roll-out testing procedure this very mment | 23:04 |
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| PBeck | DocScrutinizer: sounds good, thats means it will be released in a short time? | 23:05 |
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| rly | I get a usb0-n900 device and a n900 device. How can I just get one device created? It also seems that the names are different too each time. | 23:07 |
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| rly | So, one time the HWAddr of usb0-n900 is some non-zero number and the other time it is the n900 device which has that. | 23:09 |
| psycho_oreos | 1) udev, 2) modinfo g_info | 23:10 |
| psycho_oreos | point 2 is somewhat discussed in USB networking | 23:10 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: ERROR: modinfo: could not find module g_info | 23:11 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, hint: on N900 | 23:12 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: modinfo: could not find module g_info | 23:13 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: that's on the phone as root. | 23:13 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, my bad g_nokia | 23:13 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: I get output, but nothing I recognize that might be of value. | 23:14 |
| rly | I have some udev rule, which triggers when I connect the device. | 23:14 |
| rly | That runs a script. | 23:15 |
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| rly | psycho_oreos: basically: if $(ifconfig n900 192.168.3.14 && ifconfig n900 up); then echo "We connected n900" >> $HOME/somefile etc. | 23:15 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, again, point 2 of what I stated is in the USB networking wiki. If you look for that g_nokia you will see how it is to be used. As for udev, you probably need to rename interfaces, etc | 23:16 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: it runs that in an ethernal loop. | 23:16 |
| rly | eternal* | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | PBeck: yes | 23:16 |
| rly | And.. it actually succeeds, but I don't see how it only works if I disconnect and connect the phone two times. | 23:16 |
| rly | It doesn't work the first time. | 23:16 |
| rly | I.e. the n900 HWAddress address stays some 000. | 23:17 |
| rly | So, the host interface named n900, not anything on the phone. | 23:17 |
| psycho_oreos | it is not the host that needs to change the MAC address as per se for USB networking, its more like the device that needs the interface assigned to a MAC address at boot. | 23:18 |
| PBeck | DocScrutinizer: :) | 23:18 |
| PBeck | stefan raab springt auch nur zum spaß :P | 23:19 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: I can't really convert that into something I could try. | 23:19 |
| PBeck | upps wrong windows :) | 23:20 |
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| psycho_oreos | rly, I guess its time for you to consult the modinfo manpages. Also the modprobe manpages | 23:20 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: I already have ethernet over usb working, it's just the device name which seems to change. | 23:21 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: so, for the usbnet driver? | 23:21 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: modinfo usbnet also doesn't tell my anything I want to know. | 23:22 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm fairly certain udev cannot assign MAC addresses, so the only way to make it work is for the endpoint to assign MAC address itself which therefore is N900 itself | 23:22 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, you're now throwing yourself off on a tangent when I told you what you need to do | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's been some BS brainf*cked function in standard linux to assign random MAC addr to USB ethernet devices | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | or sth like that | 23:22 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: it already is assigning mac addresses if I put it in twice. | 23:23 |
| psycho_oreos | at least the good thing is that you can fix the MAC address with g_nokia kernel module | 23:23 |
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| rly | psycho_oreos: so your theory that we need the g_nokia kernel module is not true. | 23:23 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, again continuing off on a tangent | 23:23 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: it might be that it could make things more predictable, which might have use, but it isn't an established fact. | 23:23 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, it needs to be specified and maybe a reboot is necessary | 23:24 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: reboots of neither device were needed. | 23:24 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: kinda | 23:24 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, keep pondering then, I have my two N900 working through USB networking perfectly with set MAC addresses | 23:24 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you can tell it to use specific mac address | 23:24 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: because again, I already have the n900 working with ethernet over usb. | 23:24 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: it is just that in one major case, it doesn't. | 23:24 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, just because you did it with ethernet it does not mean that its anything particularly special. If the MAC address is bound to change then it still is the module. | 23:25 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: once it has a mac address it has always worked, so I don't see that as a problem. | 23:26 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, its ok, keep throwing yourself off the tangent, I've pointed out the cause.. and its also stated in the USB networking wiki but you're just not willing to accept the truth | 23:26 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: you have not provided information that is consistent with the data. | 23:26 |
| rly | Or rather, you seem to ignore my observations. | 23:26 |
| rly | I believe that your setup works, though. | 23:27 |
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| rly | It doesn't mean that your setup is the only possible way in which it can work. | 23:27 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, It has to set itself a MAC address, but most of the time the MAC address is randomised | 23:27 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, I have provided clues but you have not bothered to listen | 23:27 |
| psycho_oreos | ok so go experiment then | 23:28 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: can you then perhaps explain it more clearly? | 23:28 |
| rly | What is 'it' for example? | 23:28 |
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| psycho_oreos | rly, no I'm not going to repeat myself. There's already information stated at least twice throughout this simple trivial issue | 23:28 |
| psycho_oreos | If a device does not have a MAC address it basically cannot communicate on the network, period | 23:29 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: that part is clear. | 23:30 |
| rly | What is not clear is how the N900 is possibly going to set a mac address on the host. | 23:30 |
| rly | That just doesn't make sense. | 23:30 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, and that isn't news that every networked device has to have a MAC address. | 23:31 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: no, that's not news. | 23:31 |
| psycho_oreos | I never stated N900 is changing the MAC addreess on the host. | 23:31 |
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| psycho_oreos | rly, oh so you now realise | 23:32 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: I realise nothing, but you might be 'right'. | 23:32 |
| rly | I don't care about who is right or wrong. I just want to solve this issue. | 23:33 |
| rly | The issue being that sometimes the usb0-n900 device gets the mac address and sometimes it is the n900 device. | 23:33 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, I'm not debating on right and wrong. I'm merely stating the facts | 23:33 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: ok, well, I am not realizing anything. That's also a fact. | 23:33 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: can you give a specific hint? | 23:34 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, despite the clues that has been laid out before hand | 23:34 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, 1) man udev, 2) man modinfo, 3) man modprobe | 23:34 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: perhaps my problem is entirely different from what you believe; that wouldn't be the first time someone has send me into the woods. | 23:34 |
| rly | I could try to tell udev to never create a usb0-n900 device. | 23:35 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, if you believe that is the case, you're free to ask others and get their opinions | 23:35 |
| psycho_oreos | and that is still not the point | 23:35 |
| rly | But I don't even know whether I can even stop that from happening. | 23:36 |
| rly | Well, it seems that the system randomly picks usb0-n900 or n900. | 23:36 |
| rly | So, if usb0-n900 doesn't exist, the problem doesn't exist. | 23:36 |
| rly | I didn't design these crappy interfaces. | 23:36 |
| * psycho_oreos gives up and focuses on some more useful work | 23:36 | |
| rly | Thanks for not helping me then. | 23:36 |
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| rly | This kind of problem solving is a useless gimmick, because they are manufactured problems. | 23:38 |
| * psycho_oreos votes for PEBKAC +1 | 23:38 | |
| psycho_oreos | Layer 8 error | 23:38 |
| rly | I understand all your bad jokes. | 23:40 |
| rly | The wiki doesn't mention anything about assigning MAC addresses manually. | 23:40 |
| rly | Ok, well, that's not entirely true. | 23:41 |
| psycho_oreos | "Fixing the MAC address" isn't there is it? it must have been deleted from wiki | 23:42 |
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| rly | psycho_oreos: I already corrected myself. | 23:43 |
| psycho_oreos | rly, at least 5 minutes after I provided the initial hint | 23:44 |
| rly | It also says that is confuses Mac OS X, not whether Linux is also affected. | 23:44 |
| rly | it* | 23:44 |
| psycho_oreos | s/minutes/minutes ago/ | 23:44 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: rly, at least 5 minutes ago after I provided the initial hint | 23:44 |
| psycho_oreos | That isn't the point | 23:44 |
| psycho_oreos | just because its stated for Mac, it doesn't mean linux/windows is immune | 23:44 |
| rly | I still don't know why it would be relevant. | 23:44 |
| rly | I expect udev to work regardless of what MAC address it has to connect to. | 23:45 |
| rly | Yes, and I know that udev isn't connecting to anything. | 23:45 |
| Macer | ok. can't take it anymore. i need to install just 1 hard drive in this thing to see what it can do :) | 23:46 |
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| rly | psycho_oreos: ok, so now I see that your command results in the host to see the specified fixed mac address. | 23:48 |
| rly | psycho_oreos: it named ith eth1-n900. | 23:48 |
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| rly | it* | 23:48 |
| rly | Now, as to why it gave that particular name? No idea. | 23:49 |
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| rly | I want to set a fixed name such that it is always the same name for the same device. | 23:49 |
| rly | So, something like mybeautifulphone, instead of eth1-n900 or eth0-n900, etc. | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rly: I think you got one device too much anyway | 23:53 |
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| rly | DocScrutinizer: how can I assign a name to the n900 connection which is always the same independent of how many devices I connect to my machine? | 23:57 |
| rly | I am pretty sure that this falls apart if I add another NIC. | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | make the MAC addr of all devices the same | 23:58 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: uhm, shouldn't they all be different? | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | then you get different names for the different devices | 23:59 |
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