IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-11-07

AlmightyOatmeali'm sad, the wayfinder map app is no longer supported, the maps are nearly 4 years old, and i can't get a trial or even pay for it :(00:00
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psycho_oreoshad a look at sygic maps?00:00
AlmightyOatmeali haven't.. is that in a repository?00:01
psycho_oreosor is this for some other platform you're trying to hide?00:01
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psycho_oreoshmm it might be00:01
AlmightyOatmealfor some platform i'm trying to hide? what the hell?00:01
psycho_oreosI think its in Ovi repository (aka, hidden) the maps need to be bought howerver00:01
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: I think its in Ovi repository (aka, hidden) the maps need to be bought however00:01
psycho_oreosAlmightyOatmeal, was being naive, I didn't know wayfinder map `app' was also for maemo500:02
AlmightyOatmeali'm using diablo00:02
psycho_oreoso.O maemo4? heh well I wouldn't know. sygic is available on fremantle (maemo5) however00:03
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vdvif i'm trying to build a project for maemo target (from qt sdk, qtcreator) i get "'class QList<QString>' has no member named 'reserve'" error00:03
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AlmightyOatmeali'm firing up my 810 now to see if sygic is there, maybe a little googling as well00:03
vdvfor simulator target build runs normally00:03
vdvand building in scratchbox is also ok00:04
AlmightyOatmeali don't suppose fremantle would work on the nokia n810 would it?00:04
vdvbut would get it work from qtcreator00:04
psycho_oreosafaik no00:04
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vdvsomething related here:
psycho_oreosiinm N8x0 has slightly different compared to N90000:04
vdvi.e. seems that include dir of my system qt (4.6.2) is messed up with qt for fremantle00:04
psycho_oreosugh.. slightly different CPU00:05
psycho_oreosok maybe not N81000:05
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* psycho_oreos would think on a different note that sygic may struggle to run on N8x0 even if its ported00:07
psycho_oreostoo bad its proprietary00:07
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AlmightyOatmeali guess i could contact wayfinder who was bought out by vodaphone and see if they would give me a license00:08
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rlyHow do I open a PDF file in the N900 directory?01:13
NIN102just touch it...01:13
rlyNIN102: it says no files or directories.01:14
rlyNIN102: the file browser application says that or whatever its translation in English is.01:14
NIN102well, that's strange.01:15
rlyNIN102: I mounted the phone via USB.01:15
rlyNIN102: put a file on it and now sort of expect to be able to access that file on the phone.01:15
NIN102usually you shouldn't (be able to) use the intern storage or sd while having the N900 in mass-storage mode.01:16
rlyWhere is the N900 directory on the device?01:18
NIN102so unmount the phone from your PC, plug the usb cable out and try it again.01:18
NIN102The Directory for user data like music, video, documents, etc. is /home/user/MyDocs.01:19
rlyNIN102: but when I mount it I don't see a MyDocs dir.01:20
NIN102so how did you touch it then...?01:20
rlyNIN102: I didn't touch it.01:20
rlyNIN102: I have it mounted in front of me on my screen.01:21
NIN102so the file manager on your PC says "no such file or directory" or something similiar, right?01:21
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rlyNIN102: no01:22
rlyNIN102: on my PC it is clearly visible.01:22
rlyNIN102: I see subdirs like Mac OS and tmp and DCIM.01:23
rlyIf they had just put a README document there telling where this directory is one the device, that would have been easy.01:24
DocScrutinizerit's MyDocs01:24
DocScrutinizerand it's unmounted on device as long as you have mass storage mode started01:25
DocScrutinizer /home/user/MyDocs is called "Nokia N900" in hildon file manager01:26
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ShadowJKalso MyDocs contains .documents .videos and similar that correspond to the "Documents" folder in filemanager01:32
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jonwiljacekowski: ping01:38
jonwilneal: ping01:38
nealjonwil: What's up?01:42
jonwilDid you say you have some dbus stuff for phone.ssc?01:42
jonwilor whatever it is?01:42
jonwilI am interested in that if you do01:42
nealI looked, it only has a single definition01:43
neali.e., is less complete than I thought01:43
jonwilwhich one does it have?01:43
nealyou should run dbus-monitor in a screen session and just let it collect data for a few weeks01:44
nealthat's what I did01:44
nealand I've gotten most of the interface definitions that I needed01:45
jonwilI already have get_modem_state :)01:46
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HyperSnyperanyone about that uses psx4m ?03:34
HyperSnyperwith the gui, is there a way to put rom/bin's into seperate folders ? i have to put them all into single the folder listed in settings for them to show03:34
HyperSnyperpain with a game thats dumped into like 40 .bin files03:35
HyperSnyperhmmm looks like might nto be possible >
HyperSnyper"there is no option to select Game Image, Only option to select where psx4m-gui should try to find games (doesn't support subdirectories)03:37
HyperSnypertap title -> GUI config -> Rom directory03:37
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Macerone of my n900 batteries is only etting 98% charge04:06
Maceri need an actual charger04:07
robbiethe1stIt's getting a "full" charge. What percent it says doesn't matter04:07
Maceri guess04:13
Maceri still want the charger and spare batteries04:13
Macerwonder if that will work04:19
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robbiethe1st I have ne of these04:46
robbiethe1stTakes a while to charge, has a red/blue charge indicator04:47
robbiethe1stLikely isn't great for the battery, but hasn't caused me any trouble so far04:47
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sethstormrobbiethe1st: thought that was the fall-apart one I've seen on the forums05:17
sethstormI've got the PowerGen one for slightly more05:18
sethstorm(not only does it charge my N900's batteries, it also does so for my N770)05:18
jonwilanyone know which packages relate to the virtual keyboard stuff?05:19
jonwilthere are so many hildon-input packages that its hard to know which ones need cloning05:19
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jonwilfurther analysis suggests the virtual keyboard is just too hard to clone05:54
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Macerterrible terra belle05:58
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sethstormMacer: good money says it's shoddier than the original06:27
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sethstormnow what I would not mind seeing is whole system boards going on ebay06:28
sethstormgiven the USB issues06:28
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jonwilEven if the USB is totally busted, its still possible for someone with good soldering skills to repair or replace it06:32
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whatever4ever this for real?06:34
whatever4evermy n900 stopped being able to differentiate between headphones and headset. so i plug the headset in 3/4ths way in and it works as headphones, but the mic doesn't work. Can barely hear the audio when i plug it the rest of the way in06:34
psycho_oreosfor a fake N900 yes06:35
whatever4ever this seems to be the same as what I'm experiencing... later on he says headphones are fine, but not headsets06:35
povbot`Bug 6360: Headset problems06:35
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sethstormpsycho_oreos: I wonder how bad of a solder job the fake has done on the USB port06:36
sethstormor if out of all irony, they do a better one06:37
whatever4everso it runs nokia software?06:37
psycho_oreossethstorm, I wouldn't want to imagine about it at any rate06:37
sethstormwhatever4ever: doubtful06:37
psycho_oreoswhatever4ever, it runs symbian. They dressed it up as maemo06:37
psycho_oreoswhatever4ever, you can clearly see its fake everywhere06:37
whatever4everi wonder if i could get the headset working (see description above) if i take it apart06:37
sethstormI'd rather see a KIRF'd N950 that runs android06:38
whatever4everofc, n950 is real hardware06:38
whatever4everwhere does 'kirf' come from06:38
sethstorm"keeping it real fake"06:38
psycho_oreosits sure to get some wannabe buying it thinking they have a genuine device06:39
sethstormeither way, I'd not touch it with a 10' pole06:40
Macerjonwil: there are far and few who can fix that port06:41
psycho_oreosI wouldn't even touch it any rate regardless how far I am even with wearing radioactive hazchem suit06:41
Macerespecially if the copper comes off the board06:41
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Macersethstorm: i'm sure it is as well06:41
psycho_oreosI wrote on a thread on tmo a few months ago how does one easily distinguish a fake N900 and a real N90006:41
Macerbut still need to get backup parts06:41
Macerpsycho_oreos: lol... what is the main difference?06:42
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whatever4everone runs wince06:42
psycho_oreosno, hacked symbian.. they call it MTX or some crap06:42
Macerhacked symbian to look like maemo?06:42
whatever4everfuck, just bought a 30$ wired headset for this06:42
whatever4everand it doesnt work06:42
Macermade in china06:42
whatever4everthinking it is hardware issue as per the bug pasted above06:43
psycho_oreosI don't think there's a main difference, in fact there's too many obvious differences in the link whatever4ever pastd06:43
Maceri ordered a charger for BL-5J batteries06:43
Macerand the seller had a giant "US SELLER"06:43
Macerall over the item06:43
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: I don't think there's a main difference, in fact there's too many obvious differences in the link whatever4ever pasted06:43
Macerand the payment went to .hk06:43
Maceri think this is the last time i use ebay :)06:43
sethstormMacer: now what's with the ESD issue regarding the use of the alternate connectors?06:43
Macerit is infested with chinese now06:43
psycho_oreosits not as bad as alibaba :þ06:44
Macerpsycho_oreos: yes it is06:44
Macerand getting worse every day06:44
psycho_oreosMacer, alibaba is even worse lol, no buyer protection and probably you have to buy it in lots of how much06:44
Macerespecially when ebay allows the chinese to plaster "US Seller" all over the place06:44
Macernor is there an easy way to block china06:44
Macerie: only show sellers from your country :)06:44
psycho_oreosebay doesn't really care, they only care about making money. That's their attitude since day one06:45
sethstormMacer: "US Seller" usually is a dead giveaway06:45
Macersethstorm: yeah i kind of figured you know.... false advertising06:45
Macerplayed a role on ebay :)06:45
Macereven tho it comes from NJ06:45
Macerso i guess they slid it in on a technicality06:45
sethstormsomeone's Chinatown, I'd think06:46
psycho_oreosand I think only dumbasses would find themselves buying a fake lookalike phone believing they got a good deal compared to a genuine06:46
Macersethstorm: haha06:46
Macerpsycho_oreos: uhm. i did06:46
Maceri got an N900 from hk over ebay06:46
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sethstormMacer: well, it would be plausible06:46
Macerjust recently06:46
Macerseems the real deal06:46
psycho_oreosMacer, its not a fake N900 if you could use flasher :þ06:46
Macerpsycho_oreos: so far i haven't had a need06:46
Macerbut as far is it seems.. it is a real N90006:46
sethstormnow is there any possible way to have a US-side N900 still have a warranty this far out06:47
psycho_oreosMacer, it pays to read the fine prints and compared it with various sources. There maybe heaps of fake N900 out there but only foolish people who cbf doing simple research gets trolled06:47
psycho_oreoscan't be fscked06:48
Macerhm. what other methods are there to determining if my n900 is fake?06:48
Macerso far maemo seems tip top :)06:48
psycho_oreosyour N900 isn't fake06:49
Macergot lucky huh?06:49
Macerthen again.. buyer protection does come into play06:49
Maceri would have simply fiiled a claim06:49
Macerfirst day06:49
Macerwithout even contacting :)06:49
Maceri am a little pissed about this charger tho... there is no way to determine if a seller is in the US06:50
psycho_oreoswhat never ceases to surprise me is if one bought a genuine N900 and later on wanting to buy another N900, without checking the obvious differences with a real N900 buys a fake one.. or asks if its real :þ06:50
Maceri found out AFTER the payment when the paypal payment went to a acct06:50
Macerlmao.. i wrote to the seller after i bought it saying if it is a fake just send my refund now otherwise i am going to contact nokia and file a claim with ebay once it arrives06:50
psycho_oreosits not like as if you've NEVER bought a proper N900 before06:51
Macerthey assured me it was real.. and when i got it i was surprised it was tbh06:51
Macerfor $25006:51
Maceramazon has new ones going for twice that price06:51
Macerwhich is retarded06:51
sethstormmanaged to snag mine on ebay for $230 + shipping06:51
psycho_oreosfor now however, fake N900 seems to be reasonably priced. You could sort of say that's another tell tale sign as N900 hasn't deprecated to being uber cheap06:52
sethstormonly downside was that the box imei didnt match, they included a non-stock battery, and that the thing only included the power cable accessory06:52
sethstormin addition to the real N900 inside06:53
psycho_oreosit might even be a stolen device06:53
psycho_oreosthere was a tmo thread which covered that06:53
sethstormthing still has a warranty06:53
sethstormpsycho_oreos: link?06:53
sethstormor at least some keywords to search06:54
Maceri got a nokia usb cable ;)06:56
sethstormmine was thankfully not from that seller06:56
psycho_oreosthe seller could have been anyone.. if its a stolen device, the thief isn't only one person in this world :þ06:57
sethstormI know06:57
psycho_oreos <--- and here's my post in regards to distinguishing between a real and a fake N90006:59
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Macersethstorm: mine was!07:00
Maceri bought mine from cellphoneforever07:00
sethstormthe interesting thing is that the new one has a slightly different FCC ID (LJPRX-51X)07:00
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psycho_oreoshonestly, if you bought a real N900 and in the market to buy another N900 and if you honestly cannot tell the difference between a fake N900 and a real N900. Then I don't know who can help you. I mean really, you have a real N900 to compare it against.07:01
Macerwell... mine seems rather real07:01
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psycho_oreossethstorm, what is the hardware revision on that device?07:01
Macerit came with a real nokia headset ... and usb cable.. unfortunately.. no tv out cable07:02
Macera real charger too07:02
Macerthe manual was obviously chinesed07:02
psycho_oreosmine came with a dodgy (now defunct) USB cable and incompatible nokia headset07:02
sethstormpsycho_oreos: 2204/nolo 1.4.1407:02
psycho_oreosthat's the one I bought when I was in h.k.07:02
psycho_oreossethstorm, interesting, you have an old sticker I guess07:03
sethstormthing had PR1.3 preloaded07:03
Macerpsycho_oreos: i honestly don't care about these things.. as long as the n900 is functional tbh07:03
Macereven a used one is a steal at $250 :)07:03
sethstormpsycho_oreos: problem is that I dont have the original box to the new one07:03
psycho_oreosMacer, a stolen one on the other hand isn't a steal :þ07:03
sethstormjust the box to some other out of warranty N90007:03
Macermeh.. doesn't matter to me lmao07:03
Maceras long as it works07:04
Maceri have spare parts from my now broken one07:04
psycho_oreossethstorm, well it shouldn't matter.. I mean it could be a stolen device or the seller has too many N900 unboxed and forgot to place the N900 in the right box prior to shipping. I was thinking that you may have those `loaned' devices07:04
Macerlike the headphones and the vga cable07:04
Macerer. tv cable07:04
sethstormpsycho_oreos: the only reason it would matter is that there's some definite mfg date07:05
psycho_oreosMacer, or yes it could have been as you said before a fake N90007:05
Macerpsycho_oreos: i dunno :)07:05
Macerseems rather real to me07:05
Macera fake one wouldn't run maemo so well heh07:05
Maceri can't see how you can fake a fully functional n900 this well07:05
psycho_oreosMacer, it wouldn't run maemo at all. period07:05
Macerlol. well it does. runs it quite well too :) it's so great having an n900 again07:06
psycho_oreossethstorm, true but I'm guessing 2204 is by no means released at an earlier date compared to the rest. I mean you have 2101, 2104 and other variants before that07:06
Maceralready bumped it up to cssu07:06
sethstormpsycho_oreos: where else other than bootup would you check07:07
Maceri sure hope this charger doesn't set my house on fire07:07
Macerbattery + charger07:07
Macerfor $1007:07
psycho_oreossethstorm, for which? the mfg date? I don't think you can check it easily imo07:07
sethstormthe HW revision07:07
Maceroh there is one thing... the "nokia" battery is an obvious knockoff07:07
sethstormsince the only way I'm getting it is with R&D mode on my new one07:07
psycho_oreossethstorm, cat /proc/cpuinfo| grep Revision && flasher -i07:07
psycho_oreosrather flasher-3.507:08
sethstormkinda hard to run flasher if the usb port is just 5 pads07:08
psycho_oreoswhat's that supposed to mean? broken USB port?07:09
psycho_oreosheh nasty, time to get it repaired imo07:09
Maceri think cellphoneforever is just a flea market07:10
Macerthe actual company name is some sort of trading inc located in hk07:10
Macerthey are probably just a pawn shop07:10
sethstormpsycho_oreos: if there was someone that wouldn't call it uneconomical07:10
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sethstormpsycho_oreos: old one is 210107:11
Maceri'm just glad my n900 turned out ok07:12
psycho_oreosit wouldn't be rare to find pawn shops selling genuine N900. When I visited there, there was plenty of stores selling N900 and the seller is trying to convince you is new. When it came to dealing with them and tinkering with the actual device. You could tell the device isn't new07:12
Macerconsidering the reputation most of asia has for selling things07:12
psycho_oreossethstorm, exact same hw revision as my third N90007:12
Macermine is 2101 according to cpuinfo07:12
MacerSerial : 00000000000000000000000007:12
psycho_oreosempty Serial number is nothing new07:13
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Macerah well.. i guess i will charge both batteries. i seriously want this charger to show up so i can just battery swap. i am trying to avoid as much contact as possible with the usb port07:14
sethstormMacer: is it in warranty?07:15
psycho_oreosAnd in Hong Kong, the people are known to be extremely trendy. If you were caught having an old phone you'd be mocked by yer mates in H.K. So its probably also another logical reason why there's a fair bit of N900 second hands being sold there. The people just want to keep up with trends.07:15
Macersethstorm: unsure07:15
Macerpsycho_oreos: that's because people in hk don't know and awesome phone when they see one07:15
sethstormthat's what I've generally used for warranty queries07:15
psycho_oreosMacer, fyi constant battery swap may loosen the contacts on the battery itself07:15
Maceri wouldn't give up my n90007:16
Macerpsycho_oreos: it's ok. i will have 307:16
Macerand since they are like $5-10 i will just order a few more07:16
psycho_oreosMacer, they don't see the phone's inner beauty. They just see the phone as a means of being cool and as a fashion accessory. Much like having a trendy watch back then07:16
psycho_oreosheh I would never give up my N900(s) at any rate07:16
Macerso.. a city full of iphones?07:16
sethstormnow what I'd like to see is something that hits the proper pins on the jig for usb, then is a very thin plastic ribbon cable that snakes around07:17
Macersethstorm: that would be awesome07:17
Macernot to mention the ribbon cable would have a lot more "give" than the port hard soldered itself07:17
sethstormbut the thing is that joerg_rw was talking about protection issues07:17
psycho_oreosMacer, the place that I visited (Sham Shui Po), there was like an entire street selling various electronic goods but mostly phones. I recall hearing people selling iPhones over microphones saying that you can get it at X amount of HKD$, etc07:17
sethstormif you simply used the jig ports07:18
Maceryou'd shock your hand? :)07:18
sethstormsearch the USB port threads07:18
Macersethstorm: i'd rather  not.. a piece of me dies inside every time i remember the moment my usb port fell off my last n90007:19
Macerit was a special kind of sadness07:19
sethstormI'm just thankful I was able to find anothre one07:19
Maceranother n900?07:19
psycho_oreosalso an electronic magazine me dad bought from HK has shops listed in there (in advertisement form) that you could trade in your old phone for X amounts of price. There was a list of certain phones that you could redeem as sort of a trade-in value07:19
Macerme too... i am more thankful i didn't have to pay $400 for it07:19
sethstormMacer: yes07:19
Macerwtf... cmon amazon.. drop the price!07:19
Macersome of them on amazon are going for $500+ new07:20
Macerwith "minor scratches" ones going for $300+07:20
Maceri am stll going to get an e7 when i get the chance07:20
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Macerbut this week i need to buy a synology07:21
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sethstorme7 the E90 successor or something?07:21
Macerand 4 3TB hard drives07:21
Maceri suppose07:21
Maceri always considered it an N8 with a qwerty07:21
psycho_oreosN8 has 12MP camera07:21
psycho_oreosbut either way, they're (E7 and N8) are both rubbish :þ07:22
Macerpsycho_oreos: if the e7 hits $300 or less.. i'm game :)07:23
psycho_oreosMacer, gfy07:23
* psycho_oreos would personally rather invest it to buy either N9 or somehow obtain N950 :þ07:23
sethstormthe N9 reminds me of an N770 shrunk down into a phone07:26
Maceri am reading this thread07:27
Macerand well.. i just don't see it :) my n900 works great lol07:27
psycho_oreosN9 is more like the disabled brother of N950 on 'roids07:28
Macerpsycho_oreos: my sticker says "made in finland"07:29
MacerLOL! wooo!!07:29
psycho_oreosMacer, maybe an ex `loaned' device, where did you see the sticker?07:30
Maceri just took the battery out07:30
psycho_oreosdid it have revision number sticker stuck somewhere around there?07:31
Maceri just see the sticker on it under the battery07:31
psycho_oreosno no, another sticker, like yellow background with black words07:31
Macerno.. ot seeing one07:31
psycho_oreoshmm ok07:32
Macerbut the main sticker says "Made in Finland"07:32
Macerit is a finnish made phone!07:32
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Macerone of the rare "non-asian" phones !!07:32
trampMade in Finland?07:33
psycho_oreosso as he said07:33
tramptalking about the n900?07:34
psycho_oreoshe's probably so ecstatic about the fact that his N900 that he sourced it from HK was not made from slave labour07:34
Macerpsycho_oreos: yeah! how did you know??07:34
Macerthat is exactly what makes it so awesome07:34
psycho_oreosMacer, because nobody would be as excited as you are :þ07:34
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tramptrue, but it is kind of cool it doesnt say Made in China on it07:35
psycho_oreosno genuine N900 would be made in China07:35
MacerN900s are made in Korea by default07:35
psycho_oreosN9 however is a different story07:35
psycho_oreosno the production N900 were made in Korea07:35
Macerhow many finland n900s are there?07:36
psycho_oreos`loaned' N900 were probably made in Finland07:36
trampi like the phone being quality, and china doesnt mean quality, it means cheap07:36
Macer"loaned" ... ?07:36
psycho_oreostramp, then there's iPhone07:36
Macertramp: yes... taiwan is just as bad07:36
psycho_oreosMacer, DDP, like that N9 program07:36
Macerhtc has horrible phones07:36
psycho_oreosMacer, to you it is07:36
Macerthe knockoff battery doesn't read its temp correctly07:37
Maceri just noticed that07:37
psycho_oreoserr s/N9/N950/07:37
trampiPhone is made in china?07:37
psycho_oreostramp, you never realised?07:37
Macersuicide factory capital of the world07:38
tramponce i saw n900 i never looked07:38
Macerfoxconn makes them07:38
psycho_oreostramp, well not all of the component is but I'd dare say most of the components were made there anyway07:38
psycho_oreosno Foxconn made the semiconductors and assembled them together07:38
Maceroh i thought they assembled the actual iphones07:38
psycho_oreoswell mostly semiconductors actually07:38
psycho_oreosI dunno, *shrugs* not that I care about iPhones that much07:39
trampjust another thing to point out to iPhone fanatics07:39
Macermy knockoff BL-5J says it was made in korea07:40
Macertramp: korea isn't much better :)07:40
psycho_oreosthey probably wouldn't care, they'll just slam it back saying that its still designed by Apple in California07:40
Maceri wouldn't be surprised if it were north korea07:40
psycho_oreosmm trolling much?07:40
Macerpsycho_oreos: "US Seller"07:40
psycho_oreosNth Korea wouldn't be manufacturing components. I'm sure it would be South Korea if anything07:40
psycho_oreosMacer, and?07:41
Macerpsycho_oreos: i was joking07:41
tramptoo late07:41
psycho_oreosMacer, like you joked about Taiwan making inferior products?07:41
Macerno... i was being honest there07:41
psycho_oreosMacer, you do realise most of your motherboard components are made in Taiwan07:41
doc|homehey, it's not like asian countries have a monopoly on making crap products07:41
* doc|home points to GM07:41
Macerpsycho_oreos: most of a lot of things are made in taiwan07:42
Macerwhich is why i don't expect things to last longer than 5 years07:42
psycho_oreosMacer, no, most of the things are made in China07:42
Macermy parents have a stereo receiver from 197007:42
Macerstill works07:42
Macerhow many receivers do you think nowadays will stand the test of time like that?07:42
Macersometimes i think these places make things fail on purpose to continue their industrial machines07:42
psycho_oreosyou can't compare an old product to materials being used to make the exact same product these days07:43
Maceryes you can. especially with the case of stereo receivers07:43
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Macerthey are the same size07:43
psycho_oreosdo you think a current modern car would actually last as long as a car from 1950?07:43
Macerof course not07:43
Macerbecause of cheap parts07:43
Macercheam craftmanship07:43
psycho_oreosthe exact same logic applies.. over time they use cheap components07:43
Macerand the expectation for them to break07:43
Macerso people can buy new ones07:43
psycho_oreosand its called revenue07:44
Maceri guess companies realized making things work means they'll go out of business07:44
psycho_oreosnot much different from pharmaceutical companies07:44
Macerso make it as cheaply as possible07:44
psycho_oreosthey don't make medicines that will cure you instantly and permanently07:44
Macerpsycho_oreos: yeah.. but the first pill costs a ton of money07:44
Macerpsycho_oreos: agreed07:44
Macera sad tactic07:44
psycho_oreosMacer, the exact same principles apply with manufactured goods.07:45
psycho_oreosNothing changes07:45
Macerthe same principles apply for everything07:45
trampwhere can i get another n900 for a good price in the USA07:45
Macerthe only market this occurs naturally is in food markets07:45
psycho_oreostramp, probably tmo forums07:45
trampalso, business uses cheaper components to beat other businesses prices07:45
Macerelectronic companies are using a food market plan :)07:45
psycho_oreostramp, not only that to have a larger revenue due to cheaper components being used07:46
psycho_oreoss/that/that they/07:46
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: tramp, not only that they to have a larger revenue due to cheaper components being used07:46
Macertramp: they use the same components.. just bought at a cheaper price :)07:46
trampand drugs are often herbal remedies processed and price jacked07:46
psycho_oreosno not necessarily07:46
Macertramp: depends on the drug07:47
Macerand lets not forget common vaccines07:47
psycho_oreosthey use the same components until they run out, then they look for cheaper components07:47
Macerthose are technically "cures"07:47
Macerdon't see too many kids dying of measles and small pox nowadays07:47
Macerfevers used to kill people... lets hear it for asprin07:47
Macerbut just like the cars.. those are old cures07:48
psycho_oreosand remind me again, where is medicines manufactured? oh right China it was07:48
Macerand this day and age the goal is more so for the pocket than it is for society07:48
Macerit's why we aren't on mars yet07:48
psycho_oreostramp, were you looking at 2nd hands or brand new N900?07:49
Macerno offense... but... capitalism does not work for a society :)07:49
trampbrand new07:50
psycho_oreosreally hard to find brand new these days07:50
Macersure is. and if you find one it is expensive07:50
Macerlike buying at release date new prices07:50
psycho_oreosthat's if you could even get a genuinely new N90007:51
trampsometimes the rate of severe disease caused by vaccine is higher than the risk of contracting the target disease07:51
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trampwhat about anything with a warrantee?07:51
psycho_oreosI suppose if its brand spanking new, maybe the warranty will be in effect upon purchasing the equipment. I wouldn't vouch for getting a new N900 if your your new N900 is broken or made defective for instance07:53
trampon vaccines: at least i heard that on some seemingly legitimate website some time ago07:53
woldrichI bought 2 n900s 6 months after release for less money than I have to pay for one 'new' today07:53
trampactually, i was thing of selling them07:53
psycho_oreoswoldrich, damn you're eager :D bought 2 in one go07:54
trampppl dont know about it, so i might show them and sell them preconfigured07:54
trampif it is good07:54
psycho_oreosN900 has a few hardware defects. I'd hate to imagine you selling them pre-configured and they later on come chasing back to you for fixes with defective hardware in which you did not experience it first hand07:56
woldrichpsycho_oreos, funny thing is that I had talked to a friend about perhaps buying the n900 when it'd drop a fairly amount in price 2 weeks earlier. Then one day I saw in the newspaper a place where you could buy 2 n900's for a price that didn't seem right... so checked the internet, and sure thing, they gave it away at half the price.07:56
trampinteresting, thank you07:57
trampwhat defects07:57
psycho_oreoswoldrich, very nice deal there.07:57
woldrichI called them and had them make sure to keep 2 n900s for us, because it was quite a bit of travel07:57
woldrichbecause I thought, fuck, everybody will buy these now07:58
psycho_oreostramp, USB port becoming loose on certain N900. headset/headphone jack not working properly. SIM card sometimes may not be detected.07:58
trampwoldrich: how could they sell them so cheap07:58
woldrichI still have no idea07:58
woldrichbut I didn't question them further :D07:58
psycho_oreoswoldrich, I'm guessing bulk order with bargaining power from maybe a shop or wholesaler07:58
psycho_oreoscrap.. that was meant to be directed to tramp07:59
tramppsycho_oreos: if those problems are rare enough, i could replace the defective ones07:59
woldrichIf I had knew what a nice device is was, surely I'd have bought more08:00
psycho_oreostramp, I'm not nokia. I wouldn't know how many defective N900 are floating out there in the wild. You could end up being unfortunate to buy a bad batch of defective N90008:00
psycho_oreoswoldrich, well you have two already, what are you complaining about? :)08:01
tramppsycho_oreos: i would love to buy a 1000 n900s but for starters i might have to go with just cheap08:01
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psycho_oreostramp, well Macer pointed out earlier that brand spanking new N900 are sold what they were originally priced (so you're looking at around $500+ for a pop).08:02
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woldrichpsycho_oreos, heh, I gave the other one away to a friend. And just as of today, his usb connector is very, very loose as well :)08:02
trampwell, i can always try. and if it worked, it might raise awareness of what phones ought to be08:02
psycho_oreoswoldrich, ouch08:02
psycho_oreostramp, very unlikely08:03
psycho_oreosa good idea is for you to try and see how N900 works out for you before you decide to resell them08:03
trampi have :)08:03
trampit works beautifully08:03
trampi have a kbd and mouse, flash drive08:04
woldrichwhat if we mailed nokia, telling them how many n900s they could sell... surely they must still have batches of n900s in the basement or something08:04
trampive tinkered with this powertoy for almost a year now08:04
woldrichbuying them directly off from nokia should mean lower prices as well08:04
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trampthats a good idea08:05
woldrichtramp, yeah, the gameboy of the new century!08:05
woldrichor gameboy for grownups08:05
psycho_oreoswoldrich, I doubt that would be the case. There were many N900 owners/ex-owners reporting that they get E7/N8 as an `equivalent' replacement for their dead/faulty N900. Of course some still try to fight against the flaws found in nokia care's contract thing but even at that I still doubt you'd be able to get N900 easily08:06
woldrichpsycho_oreos, but why? why doesn't nokia want to sell me the shit they've made that I want?08:06
woldrichfucking nokia you make absolutely no sense these days08:07
trampthat YES was for woldrich08:07
psycho_oreostramp, to me I find N900 is more of a geek's toy. Had nokia been that successful with N900, they wouldn't have killed the platform.08:07
trampso sad08:07
psycho_oreoswoldrich, it has been making no sense the last fair few years :)08:07
trampand no one ever knew it was actually a small laptop08:08
psycho_oreoss/sense/sense since/08:08
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: woldrich, it has been making no sense since the last fair few years :)08:08
woldrichs/(fucking)/stupid, \1/08:08
trampwhat happened since the fair?08:08
psycho_oreostramp, to those who find N900 as a small computer would have most likely kept it. Its unlikely that those same set of people would be buying another N900 or would want to buy them pre-configured (not to mention if there's an extra fee for having them pre-configured that way)08:10
psycho_oreoswoldrich, fyi the bot doesn't do complex regexp like a regular *nix would do :)08:10
woldrichpsycho_oreos, that's too bad. I wanted to try  /e ;)08:11
tramplook man, this device is the closest thing we've got to controlling our phones, and theyre trying to go backward. Well, don't let them!08:11
psycho_oreosits not the fair, trump. I meant for god knows when has nokia been making any sense. Could have been for the last maybe 3 years08:12
psycho_oreostramp, goes back to what you said not long ago.. you can only try.. I'm just stating that I'm doubtful08:12
trampsome ppl who want to use it as a computer would pay an extra fee if it was setup right for it and supported by the distributor08:14
trampi understand your doubts08:14
trampi have them too08:14
trampwhen i flash my phone, i have to install a plethora of packages and change many settings08:15
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trampcopy over the keyboard config i spent a day making...08:16
trampfiguring out how to get things working normally took a lot of time08:17
tramplike the svn segfault...08:17
trampthe gnu programs path problems08:17
tramp...for different software08:17
trampi would spend an extra 50 or 100 dollars if it saved me all that frustration08:19
trampif i KNEW it would save me that frustration08:19
Maceris there an amp that shows real time percentage of the battery charge?08:20
Macerthe battery widget only shows the last known charge while it is charging08:20
trampyes, its an applet. you hit the battery to see it08:20
Maceran applet that shows percentage would be nice08:20
trampthats it08:21
psycho_oreosit can fail to work sometimes08:21
trampi have that and 30 other programs written somewhere08:21
trampon my flash drive08:21
trampfail to work sometimes?08:22
trampwhat does it do?08:23
psycho_oreosyou get grey battery icon when you have rebooted your device.. happens when you use extras-devel version08:23
trampoh, well pin your apt sources to the stable repos. i never had that problem08:24
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Macernow i don't have a battery icon at the top :)08:25
psycho_oreosthe stable version doesn't allow you to switch between the BME08:25
trampat least i dont remember i dont remember having that problem08:25
psycho_oreosMacer, reinstall that program again, and it should reappear08:25
trampswitch between the BME..what is that good for?08:26
trampMacer: i would say restart08:26
psycho_oreosthere's an alternative BME which works better in some other cases than the standard nokia BME08:27
trampdoes it fix the usb host mode problem?08:27
trampoh god this webpage looks like it says yes!08:28
Maceris there a way to add "reboot" to the power menu08:28
psycho_oreosnot sure, not that I've tried the alternative BME but ShadowJK has a script that could handle USB host mode problem such as the false meter reading from battery when the device is in hostmode iinm08:29
trampthis phone causes me the most joy and most pain08:29
psycho_oreosMacer, you hack the systemui.xml file. Its noted in the customising N900 wiki08:29
Macerlol.. really? have to go through all that?08:30
Macersounds like something that would have been added by now :)08:30
trampthe false reading is bc the BME is disabled and cant update batt status08:30
trampbt-hid-scripts disables it08:31
psycho_oreosMacer, it was disabled by default probably because its not meant to be used by those who don't know what they are doing08:31
trampit is added Macer, you just have to get ur phone from Tramp PowerPhones XD08:31
psycho_oreostramp, well I'm sure ShadowJK's script may circumvent that issue. DocScrutinizer51 pointed it out on that USB hostmode thread08:32
Macerrebooting? :)08:32
psycho_oreosand N900 isn't a phone :þ08:32
Maceryes it is08:32
trampyeah, i dont see anything wrong with a reboot button08:32
trampno its not my bad08:33
psycho_oreoswhere's the built-in MMS functionality Macer?08:33
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trampn900 is no phone08:33
Macerit's in fmms :-P08:33
psycho_oreosMacer, that's not built-in08:33
Macerandroid didn't have built in mms either when it first came out08:33
Macerhad maemo gone a little longer i am sure fmms would have been integrated08:33
Macerbut it was short lived08:33
psycho_oreosMacer, where's the portrait mode?08:33
Macerwhy does a phone require portrait mode to be considered a phone?08:34
Macerwhere is landscape mode on a lot of phones? :)08:34
psycho_oreossmartphones by default display things in portrait08:34
Macerthat is the norm yes.. but so what08:34
Macerthere is no law requiring phones display in portrait mode08:34
Macernot to mention cssu allows it to flip08:34
trampi hated how my droid would flop my screen when i layed down08:34
Macerand the phone app also flips when making VOICE CALLS08:34
psycho_oreosyeah but CSSU is not by nokia08:34
Macer:) like on a phone08:34
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psycho_oreosMacer, EXCEPT every other things08:35
Macerthe phone app always flipped08:35
Macereven when nokia made it08:35
trampit doesnt have to by nokia thats the beaut of the n900 XD08:35
Macernokia kept a "hack" in there to do it08:35
Macerwhich required a keypress08:35
psycho_oreosand no, with CSSU you can still lock the phone program in landscape mode08:35
trampare you not a proud n900 owner psycho_oreos ?08:35
Macersorry.. but if it has a cell modem and built in voice calling capabilities.. it is a phone08:35
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Maceranything that uses a cellular network for making voice phone calls can be considered a phone08:36
trampthe n900 is a computer with cellular capabilities08:36
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Maceror a phone with computer capabilities08:36
psycho_oreostramp, that doesn't have anything to do with me being proud of my N900. N900 at the end of the day is not a phone. It has a portion of phone functionality but that does not automagically makes it a phone08:36
psycho_oreosMacer, anything simplified to you is a phone08:36
trampno a computer with phone bilities :)08:37
psycho_oreosyeah lets just stereotype08:37
Macertastes great!08:37
Macerless filling!08:37
Macerold argument08:37
Macerpsycho_oreos: if i install nitdroid on my phone and it does all these things you say qualifies it to be a phone then is it a phone?08:37
psycho_oreosindeed, and you're the one babbling how it is a phone when I said it isn't08:37
psycho_oreosMacer, installing nitdroid has nothing to do with N900 being a phone. The device BY DEFAULT, BY DESIGN is not a PURE PHONE08:38
trampso what is your trouble with the n900 psycho_oreos ?08:38
Macerso software dictates if a phone is a phone?08:38
psycho_oreosMacer, that's called programmer error :þ08:38
Macerand not the hardware intent08:38
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psycho_oreostramp, follow the argument08:39
Macerno.. it's called maemo users not wanting to just give up the NITs08:39
Macerchange is difficult08:39
Macerask obama08:39
psycho_oreoslucky for me to not live in US :þ08:39
Macerthis advanced power only shows the percentage when not charging08:39
Macerit has an infinity symbol lol08:39
Macerwhich is misleading because eventually there will be no power in the universe08:40
psycho_oreosmaybe you can voice your concern to the appropriate maintainer instead08:40
Macerentropy always wins08:41
Maceri was just hoping to have something that shows where the phone is WHILE it is charging08:41
trampsee, though energy increases in entropy, there is infinite energy so the postulate that the universe will eventually expire is fallacious :)08:41
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psycho_oreosso go write your own08:41
ShadowJKthe default meter isn't updated while charging08:42
Macerenergy doesn't increase... it remains the same08:42
Macerit only spreads08:42
trampi meant the entrpy of it reaching equillibrium08:42
ShadowJKthe hwmeter is, but its calibration is off by about 40% by default, and nothing uses it08:43
trampand i think the batt status is hard to measure when it's charging08:43
Macerbut space itself is in constant increase of volume thus requiring infinate time to reach equillibrium08:43
ShadowJKand even less things use the modem's meter, and it seems even more random08:43
Macerbut then again.. if you're a strings fan.. then the matter repulsion between branes should be low enough for another big bang :)08:44
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MacerShadowJK: i see. so no real time charge info ?08:45
trampincreasing volume no decrease entropy, only increase matter08:45
trampinfobot, make that make sense08:46
infobotmake: *** No rule to make target `that make sense'.  Stop.08:46
woldrichinfobot, make world08:46
Macer:) increasing volume simulates a decrease of energy due to increased entropy08:46
infobotmake: *** No rule to make target `world'.  Stop.08:46
Macermatter never increases nor does energy08:47
Macerbut space does08:47
trampnext up: hacking infobot08:47
trampspace wont prevent energy equilibrium08:48
trampinfobot ls08:48
Macerlike i said tho.. matter repulsion between P-Branes would decrease to the point where another collision would occur and cause a new big bang08:48
infobotbash: ls: permission denied08:48
ShadowJKthe hwmeter(bq27200) does it. There's no sane way to integrate its data in the UI though.08:48
MacerShadowJK: ah ok. :-/ ah well.. it is one of those cosmetic things08:49
Maceri suppose i can just wait for the pretty light to turn green ;)08:49
trampthen the matter on the skirts would die and we'd have to move ever inward in the universe08:49 survive08:49
Macerlol. there would be no way to survive that08:49
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trampyeah we can just ride to the next bang. assuming there even is a bang08:50
Macerdepending on the multi-dimentional "position" of the collision.. everything would pretty much be destroyed anyways... if anything probably by the creation of new anti-matter.. which somewhat shows the reason behind matter surviving what we consider the "first" big bang08:51
psycho_oreosruskie, got a precompiled deb for that? ;)08:51
trampi dont think we really understand any of this conjecture, but we need to find out. the sake of the universe is at hand08:52
Maceryes.. and when it does make it there... i want my fking n900 to show me how much of a battery charge i have!08:52
Maceronly then can we advance to understand the universe as a whole08:53
Macerdamnit... i miss lcuk... he would have gotten the joke :-/08:53
* Macer puts his n900 death ray away and goes to watch movies about nazis08:54
trampwhat is hwmeter? does it replace advanced-power08:54
trampand if you dont like capitalism propose something better08:55
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Macerhitler lost ;)08:56
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trampthere is surprisingly a lack of information on hwmeter08:57
Macernot that i was a big fan of the holocaust or anti-semitism.. but nazi germany had a good thing going if you exclude the racism08:57
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cehtehsuch as?09:01
ShadowJKit's a hardware chip called bq2720009:02
ShadowJKit sits unused09:02
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ShadowJKI have a shell script that reads info from it09:03
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trampoh bq27200, reminds me of my old droid chip09:05
trampwifi chip09:05
ShadowJK - needs root, untar it in root's homedir (where you end up after tping 'root' (rootsh from extras needed)), ./ for one-time detailed output, './ 5' for continuous status output.09:05
ShadowJKComes 40% miscalibrated from factory09:06
trampwhat does it do09:06
ShadowJKreal-time (well, 5sec interval) voltage, charge-level and charge/discharge rate view09:06
trampbc i dont always run programs to find out what they do09:06
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trampis it in the repo?09:07
ShadowJKI don't know how to package stuff09:08
trampi tried packaging stuff from my phone, but i broke it.09:08
trampim going to try again soon09:08
ShadowJK      mv   RSOC CSOC mA   NAC  CACD CACT TTF   TTE   TEMP EDV1 LOW09:09
ShadowJK09:07 4097 67   67   636  808  808  808  55    65535 42  009:09
trampim not sure what i should do with a voltage reading09:10
trampmaybe if i was overclocking..hm09:10
ShadowJKTime 09:07, battery voltage is 4097 milliVolts, battery charge state is 67% or 808 mAh, currently charging at 636nA, time to full 55 minutes. Internal temperature 42C.09:10
trampoh nice!09:10
* tramp scrolls back up to link09:11
trampcan we get this reading into the applet?09:11
trampare there any known issues?09:12
ShadowJKI'm not familiar with advanced-power09:12
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trampif it was a lib, maybe advanced-power maintainer will hook it09:12
ShadowJKIt probably doesn't work in some versions of kernel-power becuse kp has a module that reserves the hardware resources09:13
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tramphow hard would it to fix that?09:13
trampi mean, can it be made compatible on hwmeter's side?09:14
trampkp is important to a lot of ppl09:14
ShadowJKthat kernel module can provide some of the same information, but it's kinda unknown if it's safe or not to have both bme and kernel accessing same hw resources at the same time. Pretty sure it's safe for two userspace non-kernel apps though09:14
vdvif i'm trying to build a project for maemo target (from qtsdk/qtcreator) i get "'class QList<QString>' has no member named 'reserve'" error09:15
vdvqt project09:15
vdvfor simulator target build runs normally09:15
trampon what line09:15
vdvand building in scratchbox (maemo sdk) is also ok09:15
vdvbut would get it work from qtcreator09:16
vdvsomething related here:
vdvi.e. seems that include dir of my system qt (4.6.2) is messed up with qt for fremantle09:16
trampwhy not build it from scratchbox09:17
Macer40% miscalibrated?09:17
trampi havent used qtcreator09:18
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trampexcept once in college but that was a long time ago and it was09:19
trampi dont want to talk about it09:19
ShadowJKIt's calibrated for 2000mAh battery. Either they were planning to use a bigger battery, or the chips come set for 2Ah from TI by default. In any case, since they didn't have time to actually use the chip it was left with the incorrect settings09:20
ShadowJKit's fixed in harmattan allegedly ;-)09:20
trampcant you figure the true numbers from the builtin ones09:21
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Macerthey should have used a larger battery09:22
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ShadowJKYou need to hookup equipment to the chip in question in order to change its settings09:23
Macerwhy not just adjust the program for the calibration?09:23
tramptweak your phone for max batt life, or buy one from me09:23
ShadowJKThere's another way which involves killing bme so the chip is allowed to self-adjust itself, it's designed to constantly learn and adjust battery capacity as a battery degrades with time, but bme shuts down phone too early09:24
Maceryeah.. get someone to mae a 2aH battery09:24
ShadowJKthere's a 2.4Ah battery09:25
ShadowJKdouble thick :)09:25
Macerbme seems to be a pain overall09:25
jonwilI suspect that most of what BME does is overkill and could have been done at a much lower level09:25
jonwilthough this charging chip09:25
Macerwatching the meego guys deal with bme and the nitdroid guys.. it was always fun09:25
trampShadowJK: just compute the true values from the old ones, assuming you know the batts max capacity etc09:25
Maceri think it is funny that when your battery is completely dead bme can't seem to get to a point where it charges09:26
trampno need to overwite anything..09:26
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trampwhat Macer09:26
ShadowJKMacer; no that works fine09:27
Macertramp: have you ever had your phone reboot 20 times to try to start charging? :)09:27
Macerhm. my battery widget is reading the pattery temp at -40C again09:28
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trampShadowJK: e.g. 2000mAh is default, if 1000mAh is the true value, then divide all your measurements by two09:28
Macerif it has this good of a voltage at -40C imagine what it will do at room temp09:29
Macertramp: it's 1350 isn't it?09:29
Macermost will probably hit 1250-130009:29
ShadowJKtramp; though if chip has somehow completed a learning cycle it'll then be off by 1/6th less than before :P09:29
trampthat sounds right since he said 40 percwent off09:29
ShadowJKmy 1 year old Nokia original is down to about 1100mAh now09:30
HaXerii try to download psx4all maemo edition but the installtion process fails for some reason09:30
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HaXeriwhere to find compatible binaries?09:30
trampare you saying the 2000mAh changes after a learning cycle09:30
HaXerii have newest stable maemo5 release09:30
HaXerido i have to enable extras-devel to install it09:31
ShadowJKtramp: yes09:31
trampShadowJK: how do you know what its at? you could just set that in hwmeter settings maybe?09:32
trampShadowJK: ah ok09:32
ShadowJK./ without a number. "Last Measured Discharge"09:32
trampHaXeri: what does it say09:32
MacerShadowJK: 1100 is kind of low :)09:33
trampMacer: i never experienced rebooting when charging, maybe its bc you keep your batt in a deep freezer09:34
Maceryou just haven't managed to completely drain it yet09:34
Macersome day it will happen09:35
trampHaXeri: you said the installation fails for some reason. what reason is that?09:35
Maceri wonder if my phone was made with a stronger usb port since it was made in finland :)09:35
trampnot all n900s are made in finland?09:36
Maceri would assume very few were made in finland09:36
Macerand most in korea09:36
ShadowJKWhen completely drained the hw will independelt ycharge battery until there's enough to boot os, nolo then holds off booting linux until it thinks there's enough, linux is booted and bme takes over, act_dead mode shows charging notification and blinks led09:36
trampive drained my batt beyond the autoshutdown limit b409:37
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tramphow did you fix your 20 reboots?09:37
MacerShadowJK: i've had my hardware stuck on stupid one time09:37
ShadowJKinstalling power-kernel, multiboot, uboot and similar things seem to cause autoreboots in act_dead mode :P09:37
Macertramp: honestly.. just let it keep rebooting09:37
Macereventually... it caught09:38
Macermaybe it was beause it was an asian made n900 :-P09:38
trampShadowJK sounded right, it should charge even if the device cant run09:39
ShadowJKboth my made in koreas do it fine09:39
* psycho_oreos personally cannot wait for the next retarded comment sprouting out of Macer's mouth09:41
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psycho_oreosMaybe decades in time he'll be sprouting nonsense about made in Africa, probably in clutches too09:43
tramphey, if i make money selling preconfigured n900s, can i pay you to finish hwmeter?09:44
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tramphow do you justify an open source software expense in business?09:45
ShadowJKyou mean you can actually obtain working N900s?09:45
trampbut dont buy them i might need them09:48
psycho_oreosyes, mum09:48
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* psycho_oreos contemplates of buying yet another one.. this time from amazon ;p09:49
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psycho_oreosone less N900 for you ;p09:50
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trampyou just bought an n900 out of spite?09:55
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Macerpsycho_oreos: sorry but when comparing the origin of products most of asia is not too high on the quality list09:58
Macerand unfortunately... most if not all phones come from asia09:58
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Macerand marked up 1000%09:59
Macerbased on pretty lights and animations09:59
psycho_oreostramp, I could have just to piss you off but then I could be completely sarcastic.. (note the hint on: yes, mum)09:59
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trampand the english language support09:59
psycho_oreosMacer, marking it up is not the fault of the quality.. sure some countries do not have proper QA but that's the original manufacturer at fault for not properly caring about QA let alone worker safety. They all care about money at the end of the day10:00
trampdont be embarassed you can pretend im your mum10:00
trampits ok10:00
Macerhm. my original battery is 1220mAh10:01
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psycho_oreostramp, no thanks. I am quite happy with my mum as it is :þ10:01
psycho_oreos-> #offtopic10:02
Macerpsycho_oreos: exactly. make a lot. if break. replace. <- asian manufacturing mantra10:02
psycho_oreosMacer, if it wasn't for the westerner's concept of having a manufacturing line no?10:02
psycho_oreoswhere's the love, care and attention to detail these days? thrown out the window10:03
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Macersure has been10:03
Macerrecalls are cheaper nowadays10:03
Macerbecause of cheap parts10:03
Macercheaply made everything10:03
tramppsycho_oreos: you mean mass production?10:04
psycho_oreosand lets just go mock some asian country because their QA is completely off the scale and that they operate in sweatshops10:04
Maceri would pay a premium on a non asian made phone any day10:04
psycho_oreostramp, or that10:04
trampLOL Macer10:04
Macerof course :) slaves usually only care about the stick and not the carrot10:04
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trampso youre dogging the industrial revolution?10:05
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psycho_oreosMacer, I totally love your idea, but I'm sure nokia wouldn't satisfy your needs. Neither would 85% of the manufactured goods would10:05
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vdvhi all10:05
psycho_oreostramp, don't blame me for someone who decides to mock about cheap labour10:05
Maceri can buy US food ;)10:05
vdvanyone here using qtsdk/qtcreator to build a qt project for maemo?10:06
psycho_oreosMacer, and US clothing? and cars made and assembled in US? and computer that has all the materials made n US?10:06
psycho_oreoss/made n/made in/10:06
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: Macer, and US clothing? and cars made and assembled in US? and computer that has all the materials made in US?10:06
vdvand was it successfull?10:06
Macerbut we still sell crude raw materials and food.. at least we have that10:07
Macerblame the epa10:07
Macerchina will kill its own people and ruin the planet for its "revolution"10:07
Macerkeep its yuan overvalued10:08
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Macerall for the sake of a cheaply made iphone10:08
trampwhere are you from Macer10:08
Macermarked up like Jordans10:08
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psycho_oreosand lets not forget too that the Chinese at one stage bought the US currency10:09
Maceranother mistakd :) china is the enemy10:09
Macerah well.. i am honestly happy that i have a finland n90010:10
Macerironically... purchased from hk :)10:10
trampwhere are from psycho_oreos10:10
psycho_oreostramp, motherland: Taiwan; fatherland: Australia10:10
psycho_oreostramp, you?10:12
vdvis it possible with qtsdk/qtcreator to build qt project for fremantle target?10:12
trampi just come from one land...10:12
Macerisnt taiwan just off mainland china?10:12
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trampdo lands have sex?10:12
trampoh your mom and...10:12
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psycho_oreosvdv, not sure, have you tried #qt though?10:12
tramppsycho_oreos: i havent heard you say 'mate' once yet10:13
trampwhy dont u have an aussie accent10:13
psycho_oreostramp, I haven't heard your answer yet10:13
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Macertime to back this phone up10:15
* tramp looks for question10:15
trampnot chicago tho10:15
trampchicago says the darndest things10:15
psycho_oreostramp, well I sort of do have aussie accent and I sort of don't. Mind you Aussies aren't the only one that uses `mate' amongst the plethora of other jargons. Then again I haven't heard you saying `bro' or `buddy' either10:16
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* psycho_oreos thought the Texans were worse than Chicago but *shrugs* never been there apart from Florida10:17
trampyeah im unusual in that way10:17
trampyou traced me10:17
trampim not from texas, but close10:18
psycho_oreosnot saying you were, I was commenting to what you said about Chicago people say the darndest things :)10:18
trampon the internet, cultures tend to blur10:19
psycho_oreosand using slangs is one way to make others guess more easier where you were from. Not that it matters but hey10:19
trampi hardly say bro, you hardly say mate, and Macer hardly ...well some are still blurring10:19
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psycho_oreosheh new language, Internet English? ;)10:22
* jacekowski slaps you all10:23
trampn0 rly the interweb lang has alrdy ben inventd10:24
* psycho_oreos sees jacekowski's hand is glowing red and is predicting that his hand will become dark purple coloured10:24
psycho_oreoso gawd d shortword, i h4te 2 try n figur it all out10:25
trampno hes right, were getting stupider10:25
trampso we should try to reverse entropy10:28
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trampmacer said we need spacial expansion and a multidimensional explosion10:31
Macerwe will never get the job done if the spaceships are made in china10:31
* Macer hides10:32
merlin1991This channel went 100% OT10:32
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RST38hWhat job?10:33
RST38hIf you mean reducing world's population, exploding it in spaceships is not the most effective way.10:33
MacerRST38h: preventing the destruction of the universe... luckily my n900 can teleport me to another multiverse10:33
* Macer installs newlife from extras-multiverse10:34
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Macerhm.. advanced power's times are in use | idle ?10:35
trampapt-get remove newlife10:35
trampyes, is that confusing?10:36
Maceridle is showing 170:0010:36
Macerseems kind of low10:36
merlin1991dpkg -r *life*10:36
merlin1991By the way, of the currently talking people, whos's running cssu?10:37
Macerbut the battery widget is showing roughly 6 hours10:37
Maceri am10:37
Maceri think everybody here is10:37
RST38heverybody I guess10:37
* merlin1991 will need about 5 testers for the *stable* branch of cssu before unleashing it to the repos eventually10:38
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trampnot me10:38
trampim running stock10:38
trampjust flashed10:39
Macerthere you go. let tramp be the tester10:39
merlin1991Perfect candidate :)10:39
merlin1991(reflash is needed for stable)10:39
Macerim sure maemo testers are hard to come by nowadays10:39
trampglad to be of service10:40
Macerjust copy your backupmenu backups somewhere safe lol10:40
trampthis will actually be the first time i ran cssu10:40
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tramptheres nothing to backup10:40
Macerit isnt much different10:40
Macerwell nm then lol10:40
trampoh except one thing10:40
Maceri tweaked my n900 to death10:41
merlin1991You still got time, test repo for stable will be avaiable later this week10:41
Maceri need to do one more thing to make it just as perfect as my last one pre-usb breaking :'(10:41
trampis the backup menu very good, i was using rdiff-backup10:41
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Maceri only used it once.. seemed to work10:42
Macerwell.. more like 3 times10:42
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Macerit does what it is supposed to10:42
trampis there a script for testing cssu?10:43
trampi mean a test script not a shell script10:43
Maceryou have to flash the n900 i suppose10:43
trampi mean a list of things to check10:43
Macerhave to ask merlin1991 :)10:43
tramp91, is that cat 20 yrs old?10:44
merlin1991List of things to test are: does it install, do qt apps still work, do qtm apps still work10:44
trampis this info posted anywhere10:46
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vdv/opt/QtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim/usr/include/QtCore/qvariant.h:592: error: 'QVariant' is not a member of 'QMetaType'10:46
merlin1991Not yet as the test repo is not there yet10:47
trampsounds like more missing libraries, vdv10:47
trampwill it be?10:47
trampthe info10:47
merlin1991Yes, I'll write it up somewhere when the packages are ready10:48
trampso i can look at it more closely when im testing it10:48
trampGreat, thanks10:48
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merlin1991Probably will add more things to test to the list10:48
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trampill try not to brick my phone this week then10:49
merlin1991How do you usually brick it?10:50
trampoh, well...let methink10:51
tramplast week i spilt water on it, but it turned out it was just that i uninstalled every package, ...10:52
trampbefore that...10:52
merlin1991I reflashed yesterday (enabled unstable feature in h-d -> rebootloop)10:53
trampi filled up my /tmp with dpkg-depcheck data and then rebooted bc i thought /tmp was a memory filesystem10:54
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trampi thought it would clear it, but instead it wouldnt boot10:54
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merlin1991Hildon desktop10:55
trampi dont remeber the one b4 that, but the one b4 that was just a corrupt sdcard from copying files via usb with a low-batt10:56
trampfortunately i only a few files i really missed10:57
tramps/only/only lost/10:57
infobottramp meant: fortunately i only lost a few files i really missed10:57
trampinfobot echo $PATH10:58
trampinfobot find --max-depth 110:59
trampinfobot help10:59
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trampinfobot cat /etc/passwd11:02
* infobot shoves a feral cat down /etc/passwd's pants11:02
Maceri have to edit the keyboard map to get my su8w working properly11:02
trampinfobot cat Macer11:02
* infobot shoves a feral cat down Macer's pants11:02
Macersounds about right11:02
infobotDebian Package/File/Desc Search of '--max-depth 1' returned no results.11:03
Macerbut that is the last thing i need11:03
psycho_oreosinfobot, lart Macer11:03
* infobot squeezes Macer till Macer turns blue like papa smurf11:03
Macernokia bt keyboard11:03
tramplike papa smurf lol11:03
Macergot it years ago with my n9511:03
trampno Macer, just install extkbd11:03
Macerworked great on my n900... edited the keymap11:04
jaskainfobot, lart infobot11:04
* infobot turns jaska into a lifesized tux doll11:04
Maceri still have to edit the keymap11:04
Macerso enter works when it is closed11:04
psycho_oreosinfobot, lart itself11:04
* infobot burns psycho_oreos to a crisp with a laser11:05
Macerwill do it tomorrow... sleepy now11:05
trampextkbd fixes the mapping11:06
tramp...automatically when you plug in a kbd11:06
trampit also overwrites your current kbd mapping, so back it up, and you might have to modify it to work with extkbd11:07
trampinfobot lart himslef11:08
* infobot installs a bad bootloader on himslef and turns himslef into a brick11:08
tramplol i did it11:09
trampinfobot rm *11:09
infobot* is an unperson11:09
psycho_oreosinfobot, lart itself11:09
* infobot eats itself and falls over dead11:09
trampinfobot ls11:10
infobotbash: ls: permission denied11:10
merlin1991infobot is a genious :D11:10
merlin1991infobot ls /11:11
trampinfobot pwd11:11
infoboti guess pwd is $pwd11:11
hiemanshuinfobot: die11:11
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.11:11
keriohiemanshu: how could you11:11
merlin1991this is getting kinda odd :P11:11
kerioinfobot: nuke hiemanshu11:11
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at hiemanshu ... B☢☢M!11:11
merlin1991hm, some of those chars of boom didn't arrive here correctly11:12
psycho_oreosinfobot, lart kerio11:12
* infobot beats kerio into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy11:12
trampinfobot sudo ls11:12
merlin1991lovely rectangles11:12
psycho_oreosmerlin1991, indeed, using xchat?11:12
merlin1991nope quassel11:12
trampI SAID SUDO!11:13
psycho_oreosahh bugger11:13
jonwilbah, I give up on trying to figure out the virtual keyboard11:13
trampoh you mean the symbols popup window?11:14
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jonwilwell there is that and there is also a proper virtual keyboard11:14
jonwilhow you activate that one I dont know11:15
jonwilbut its there11:15
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trampive seen the setting for it, but i dont know what it is11:15
merlin1991settings -> text-input -> use virtual keyboard11:15
trampi have every key i need with my modified rx-51 file11:15
trampbraces, brackets, pipes, ...11:16
merlin1991but why would one want to use the vkbd on the n900?11:16
trampexcept i havent copied it over this flash yet11:16
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trampi dont know what the vkbd even is!!11:17
hiemanshumerlin1991: one handed usage?11:17
merlin1991tramp vkbd is virtual keyboard11:17
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tramp"how can i type even slower?"11:17
merlin1991and hiemanshu it's landscape only one handed is portait for me11:17
trampi know its a vkbd, but is a vkbd!?11:18
hiemanshumerlin1991: one handed usage for people with big hands? :P11:18
hiemanshutramp: virtual keyboard :P11:18
Macerthe vkb in maemo is horrible11:18
Maceri am not a big vkb fan to begin with but the one in maemo is especially horrible11:19
merlin1991hiemanshu: my thumb only reaches about 60% of the n900 screen when holding it in landscape one handed, so defenitely not for me :P11:19
trampi know vkb stands for virtual kbd, what is a virtual keyboard11:19
Macerhm. i need to see if any of these stock widgets are worthwhile11:19
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merlin1991tramp: I'll do you an awesome screenshot of the maemo5 vkbd awesomenes11:20
Maceri am sure they aren't.. i'd love to be able to have them refresh every 1s :)11:20
Macermerlin1991: can i see it?11:20
Maceris it some non-stock customized one?11:20
trampyou dont mean the symbols popup menu do you?11:20
merlin1991tramp nope I don't mean that11:21
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merlin1991hm how does one take a screenshot from ssh?11:21
merlin1991can't use ctrl+shift+p since that closes the vkbd :D11:21
trampdoes ctrl-p not work?11:21
Macerwtf.. is it an ncurses kb?11:22
Macerwith mouse support11:22
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psycho_oreosmerlin1991, there's a screenshot tool which I think is part of cpu/mem applet11:22
trampthere should be a script for ss'ing11:22
Macerto get a bt keyboard workign properly you have to edit the keymap then disable the vkb11:22
psycho_oreoswell screenshot/screen recorder tool really11:22
Maceri had it working so nicely... autoconnected the bt and disconnected and it all worked... that is why a piece of me died inside when my last n900 broke11:23
villagermerlin1991: plenty of those screenshots on google image search...11:23
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merlin1991villager: too easy!11:23
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Maceri wish the n900 had full device encryption11:24
Macerthat would be great11:24
Maceri was surprised the asus transformer had it11:25
trampit can run dm-crypt with kp11:25
Maceramazon sells a synology ds411j diskless for $359 and with 4x1TB for $76011:27
Macer$400 seems a little steep for 4x1TB11:27
trampMacer: why dont you just install extkbd from appman to auo-set your kbd mapping?11:28
jrayhawkYeah, the n900 uses an initfs, so dm-crypting root is not particularly hard.11:28
Macerfor ~$500 you can get 4x3TB11:28
* jonwil adds hildon input method libs to the list of libraries he could reverse engineer if he only had header files for them11:28
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trampim not sure if you can encrypt the rootfs tho11:29
Macertramp: because you still have to map the enter key to work propery when the phone is closed11:29
Maceri ran into this problem before11:29
Macerif you disable the vkb then pressint enter will act somewhat similar as a "mouse click"11:29
Macerwhich normally would bring up the vkb11:29
trampjonwil: you can RE, but you cant derive header files?11:30
Macerif you edit the map for the US 104 keyboard and remap it a bit it works perfectly.. extkbd does not do this correctly11:30
jonwilNot when there are funky undocumented structures involved11:30
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jonwilwhen you have a function that returns an unknown structur11:30
Macerunless it has been updated and i don't know about it :) i will try it out later today and let you know11:30
jonwilor takes one as a paremter11:30
jonwilits hard11:30
trampok, i guess they arent OS either11:31
jonwilnope they arent11:32
trampMacer: have you reported the bug?11:32
jonwilThats where the problem comes from with most of these libs I want to reverse engineer11:32
Macertramp: there is still maemo bug reporting?11:32
merlin1991WTF? my n900 decided to stop accepting my ssh key11:32
trampI think I remember experiencing that myself11:32
Macerlast time i tried that it was "WONTFIX.. WONTFIX... WONTFIX... WONTFIX"11:32
Maceri thought the greatest one was when i said "Maemo 4 had su8w support which worked flawlessly yet this ability was removed in Maemo 5 (along with the direct configuration of other Bluetooth keyboards)11:33
Macerand that was when Nokia was running the show.. damn snobs.. i hope they got fired when they went to Winmob11:33
Macerthe whole lot of them11:34
jonwilThe lack of headers for libconnui and libconnui_cell is the biggest reason my work with the connectivity UI is going nowhere11:34
trampMacer: youre saying there is no bug reporting bc maintainers wont fix, right?11:34
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merlin1991what can possibly invalidate my ssh key for the n900 ssh server?11:35
jrayhawkmerlin1991 Are you sshing with -u user?11:35
trampjonwil: i thought n900 packages had to be OS11:35
jrayhawkerr, user@11:35
jonwilthey dont11:35
merlin1991jrayhawk: no, but you just explained me what I did wrong11:36
jonwilplenty of the N900 is closed source11:36
Macertramp: i would say there is no bug reporting being done because most of the projects are abandoned :)11:36
merlin1991forgot the root@11:36
jonwilincluding most of the nice bits11:36
jrayhawkewww, direct root logins11:36
Macerand maemo itself is working off a dedicated skeleton crew of people here making it better with what little resources they have11:36
merlin1991jrayhawk: why not?11:36
trampjonwil: oh those libs were made by nokia11:36
jonwilNokia made them11:37
trampsorry following 3 convos11:37
jonwilso has no obligation to release them11:37
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Macerjust curious.. who is running nowadays?11:37
trampjonwil: thats why i left droid11:37
jonwilN900 is more open than most Android handsets11:38
jrayhawksingle-factor security for root is uncomfortably risky in my book, but to each their own.11:38
Macerjonwil: i think they are equally closed ;)11:39
trampMacer: instead of hacking a solution to the kbd problem, fix the broken package and reupload it11:39
Macerare the keymaps part of extkbd?11:40
jrayhawkI run pretty much everything with PermitRootLogin no, PasswordAuthentication no, and require all elevation to go through sudo.11:40
Macerit's like.. 2 lines in the keymap11:40
Macerbut you can't use the vkb after that11:40
Macerunless someone finds a cleaner way to do it11:40
Macertramp: this problem is in tmo from the before time... :) i remember trying to get this going when i first got my first n900 when it first came out11:41
trampi know extkbd overwrites rx-5111:41
Macerextkbd wasn't there yet11:41
Macerextkbd also uses other mapping files for the types of keyboards11:41
Macerbut then again.. it may work now... i will try it later .. right now i'm going to bed.. it is 3am here11:41
Macerfor myself i believe it was the type of keyboard11:42
Maceri had to edit the US file11:42
Maceror the US 104... i forget.. it has been a while.. i will blog about it later :-P11:42
* jonwil wishes -dev packages for more of these libraries were available11:43
jonwilWould be so useful for work I am doing11:43
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trampjonwil: yes11:43
Maceri haven't really done much to http://tech.rancorous.net11:43
merlin1991for the record `gst-launch-0.10 ximagesrc num-buffers=1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc ! filesink location=screenshot.png` to take a screenshot from ssh11:43
Maceri don't even know if it is still running11:43
Macer:) it has been a while11:43
Macerbeen busy11:43
* jonwil wishes people like qwerty12 were still around11:45
tramplol such an intuitive cmd for ss11:45
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trampjonwil: to help you RE the libs11:45
jonwilyeah, that guy was good at that sort of thing11:46
jonwilas far as I know11:46
Macerjonwil: i miss qwerty12 too :'( and lcuk11:46
Macerwhat happened to qwerty?11:46
jonwilI dont know11:46
Macerqole too11:46
trampwell, depending on how much you need RE'd you can get some info abount the strucs11:47
* merlin1991 needs to compile another version of mad-developer11:47
merlin1991I'm getting tired of SECURITY BREACH ssh  warnings because n9 and n900 use same ip on usb-networking11:48
psycho_oreosqwerty12 rage quitted, lcuk passed away, qole now mainly focuses on harmattan and penguinbait left11:48
tramptoo many questions!11:48
jrayhawkyeah, it sure would be sweet if ssh keys were indexed by, you know, key11:48
trampok, can you load the libs in a debugger?11:49
psycho_oreosmerlin1991, you can set N9 with different IP/subnet/gateway you know?11:49
trampjonwil: can you load the libs in a debugger?11:50
jrayhawkmerlin1991You can selectively disable checks for11:50
jrayhawkcertain hosts11:50
jonwilif using the debugger would help, I would have done so11:50
jonwilI can already get things in GDB but that doesnt help11:50
jacekowskijonwil: what do you need?11:50
psycho_oreospackages/stuff behind vkbd11:51
jonwilyes I am trying to reverse engineer the vkb stuff11:51
jonwilbut for that I have x86 packages11:51
merlin1991thanks psycho_oreos, knowing how the n900 behaved I didn't think the n9 would remember those settings11:51
jonwilso x86 hex-rays is the best option to reverse engineer those11:52
jonwilThe libs I am really stuck on due to no x86 packages are libsrv_um, libpvr2d, libconnui and libconnui_cell11:52
psycho_oreosmerlin1991, N9 doesn't save those settings? wow that's really useful hey? I guess you'll just have to place N900 in different setup then11:52
merlin1991psycho_oreos: it does11:52
trampjonwil: then it's down to RE'ing the strucs in asm...11:52
merlin1991but I thought it doesn't11:52
jonwilyeah :(11:53
merlin1991because the n900 doesn't :D11:53
psycho_oreosmerlin1991, actually N900 does11:53
merlin1991mine doesn't :D11:53
psycho_oreosI have two N900 with completely different IP/subnet/gateway setup. I have had them on USB networking before11:53
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merlin1991restarted mad-developer and settings were back to old system11:53
psycho_oreosI never used mad-developer11:54
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merlin1991it's a convenient ui except for that little flaw11:54
trampif it was written in C, it wont be that hard, it should be accessed in a straightforward way11:54
jonwilyeah those libs are still hard though11:55
jonwilcallback functions are one of the most annoying things11:55
trampwell it depends how much you need RE'd11:55
trampi wouldnt want to break down 15 strucs11:55
jacekowskin900 is dead11:56
psycho_oreosuseful comment...11:56
trampand then what do you need out of them?11:56
jaskasure, but, n9 is keyboardless and contains hitlerware (drm), thus it does not exist to me11:56
ShadikkaHitlerware... that's a good term, now.11:57
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trampthe n900 is still the most powerful phone. It cant die until its surp+sed11:58
* psycho_oreos rolls eyes11:58
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jonwilI think the #1 wish I have right now is for help to figure out the prototype of the functions in labeled imlayout_vkb_xxx11:58
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trampthings dont die when theyre a few years old, they die when theyve been replaced by something better11:59
trampdid you figure out the calling convention yet?12:00
jonwilwell they should be standard C calling convention12:01
jonwilbut I cant figure out the parameters or return types or any structures involved therein12:01
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ShadikkaI'd love to help, but I'm pretty sure I'm more eager than I would be of actual help.12:02
trampcan you load it in IDA?12:02
jonwilI can but that doesn'12:02
jonwildoesn't get me anywhere12:02
trampyou can find the sizes of the strucs by their size on the stack, trace their access...12:03
psycho_oreostramp, I think you're mistaking the fact that jonwil doesn't need you to tell him what to do but to rather actually give him a hand in reverse engineering12:03
trampand for paramters you have to trace the data back through the caller..hm12:03
tramppsycho_oreos: unfortunately, all i have is my phone12:04
trampbut im typing as fast as i can!12:04
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trampi used to have a computer, but it was stolen12:07
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merlin1991tramp: how did you flash then? oO12:08
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trampoh yes, i sent it back to nokia and they flashed it for me12:09
trampwonderful chaps12:09
trampafter i sat my broken phone for a week12:10
trampthat was when i uninstalled all packages12:10
trampusually i just use someone elses computer. i put the flasher on my flashdrive12:11
trampin my defense, i thought the water killed it and thats why i sent it in12:12
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merlin1991I'll make sure to test cssu doesn't brick the phone before I let you test then :D12:12
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tramphaha ok thx12:13
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trampgl jon, you can do it12:21
trampsee you tomorrow12:22
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jonwilok, time to figure up my Linux box and grab the x86 file for hildon-western-fkb :)12:24
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jonwilooh good, hildon_im_widget_load is open source12:32
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Macerlol.. so if i put the N900 down now... and leave it alone.. it will stay alive for 182 hours? :)12:47
Macerbe for serious.. this thing is not being realistic lmao12:48
brikyou should try12:48
Macerbrik: it is impossible12:49
Macercan't help but tinker with it12:49
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Macerright now i'm trying to figure out what damn stock ticker symbols this app is using12:49
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Maceri ca't seem to get the averages to add to the widget :(12:49
Macerthe typical ones don't work. like DJIA ... or .DJI12:50
jonwilI think I am getting closer to figuring out this SOB :P12:51
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Macerit looks like it may use NYSE tickers12:58
Macerargh.. i wish there was a stock widget for maemo that just looked it up by typing it into a search :)12:58
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Macerit sure does.... finally13:00
Macerthat makes life a lot eaier13:00
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MacerOMG no it doesn't13:05
Maceri need to figure out what tickers markets today uses13:05
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Macerit's driving me nuts13:05
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merlin1991Yay tracker went berserk13:10
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merlin1991And lost the db13:12
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Macerok this is just weird13:18
Maceri can add the everything but ^DJI13:19
Macerit's driving me crazy13:19
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Macerthe russel.. nasdaq and S&P 500 add fine13:21
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Maceryahoo is broken13:46
Macer/MyDocs/Downloads/quote-0.05 $ perl quote ^DJI13:46
MacerUse of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at quote line 87.13:46
Macertheir dji quote is broken lol13:46
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Macer/MyDocs/Downloads/quote-0.05 $ perl quote ^IXIC13:49
Macer^IXIC: 2686.15 +0.00 (+0.00%) @4:30pm13:49
Macernasdaq works. this is why people should just use google... their stuff works13:50
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DocScrutinizer(<merlin1991> I'm getting tired of SECURITY BREACH ssh  warnings) ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root IroN90014:04
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: quite convenient to have an alias, a function, or a shellscript for that14:06
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: you *might* also be interested in and
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achipaX-Fade: ping - autobuilder bork14:41
Macerok.. this may seem a little silly but.. how do i keep the screen unlocked for apps but keep the desktop locked?14:42
Macerturning the auto orientation on makes the desktop rotate and it is stupid because that obviously doesn't work correctly14:42
MohammadAGscreen locked?14:42
Macerbut if i force landscape the apps won't rotate14:42
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Macerwhen i disable the landscape from the applet... the desktop rotates14:43
Macerif i force it into landscape no apps will do it even if they have an option to do so14:43
X-Fadeachipa: What's up?14:43
Maceri want to lock the desktop but allow the apps to rotate14:43
achipaX-Fade: autobuilder stuck since yesterday evening14:44
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X-Fadeachipa: Hmm no builds going on.14:44
achipaexactly, and since I'm trying to fix QtMobility it's a bit of a pain :)14:45
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X-Fadeachipa: Ehm, there are just no files in incoming-builder?14:46
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achipaX-Fade: unpossible ? I uploaded libqtm-12 noon-ish today, but nothing happened14:47
Macerok seriously14:47
Macerthere is no way to keep the desktop from rotating but allowing the apps to do so?14:47
achipaX-Fade: (noon EST)14:47
X-Fadeachipa: ah, rejected.14:47
achipaokay... but got no mail about the rejection :S14:47
achipaand even failed builds are supposed to show up on the latest builds, right ?14:48
X-Fadeachipa: Oh, no. that was an older build.14:48
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achipaX-Fade: note that the message ends with "building...", never gets to OK or publishing it14:49
X-Fadeachipa: Yeah, the last one is curious.14:50
X-Fadeachipa: But that one is not old.14:50
achipawell, like 3 hours14:50
X-Fadeachipa: Can you upload again, so I can watch what is going on?14:50
achipaX-Fade: should I bump versions ?14:51
X-Fadeachipa: I don't think so.14:51
Macersilly shit like this makes me want to flash PR1.3 onto it again14:52
achipaX-Fade: upped14:52
X-Fadeachipa: Ok, building.14:52
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Maceromg this doesn't make sense14:56
Maceris there some type of orientation setting i am missing somewhere?14:56
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achipaX-Fade: got the same (half)mail15:06
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X-Fadeachipa: I see an input/output error.15:06
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X-Fadeachipa: Crap, some issues with NAS.15:08
DocScrutinizerMacer: there's some blacklist15:09
DocScrutinizerMacer: don't ask me where and how it works, it's all *very* bleeding edge all this rotation stuff and I *hate* it15:10
DocScrutinizerMacer: bash MohammadAG15:11
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MacerDocScrutinizer: i don't understand. there is no way to prevent the desktop from rotating yet allow apps to rotate??15:11
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: also /join #maemo-ssu15:11
X-Fadeachipa: rebuilding again.15:11
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Macerif you use the applet then the rotation is global15:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm there?15:11
Macerit either all rotates or none of it15:11
MohammadAGMacer, what do you want exactly?15:11
Maceri want apps to rotate.. like the phone app15:11
Macerbut not the desktop15:12
Maceri want it to work like it used to work :)15:12
MohammadAGdesktop as in home?15:12
Macerthe way it works now... everything rotates or nothing rotates15:12
DocScrutinizerMacer: I made exactly that (dialer rotates, nothing else though), check:15:12
Macerthe phone will not rotate if "force landscape" is set in the applet15:12
infoboti guess jrtools is
MohammadAGgconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/desktop_orientation_lock -t bool true15:12
DocScrutinizeror that :-D15:12
Maceri have to do that every time the phone boots?15:13
x29aor rc.local can do it for you =)15:13
x29ayay linux15:13
Macerx29a: so... i have to do that every time the phone boots :-P15:13
DocScrutinizerx29a: BS15:13
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DocScrutinizergconf keys are persistent15:13
MohammadAGI thought the point of such configurations was that it was PERSISTENT15:14
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MohammadAGotherwise we could use dbus15:14
Maceris there a apps?15:15
x29adocscrutinizer: chill, pun intended. but even if it wasnt persistent, there is no such thing as _i_ have to do things at every boot15:16
DocScrutinizerTo get rid of the ubiquitous autorotating while still allowing dialer to switch to portrait mode (doesn't lock microB, for now I will live with it):15:16
DocScrutinizergconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false15:16
infobothmm... jrtools is
Maceralrighty. lets see if that works :)15:18
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: ^^^ relevant for S15:19
MohammadAGyou can lock microb15:19
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Macerthe auto rotate would be fine.... if the desktop would reorganize everything15:19
MohammadAGorganize it yourself15:19
Maceror if there were "2" desktops .. one for landscape and one for portrait15:19
DocScrutinizerMacer: yes, we know15:19
MohammadAGMacer, it's that way now15:19
Maceris it??15:19
Macerthe landscape and portrait aren't the same?15:19
MohammadAGagain, duh15:20
Macer:-P well my icons and stuff got moved from teh landscape mode15:20
Macerok.. well... my bad then15:20
MohammadAGreorganize them, they'll be stored15:20
MohammadAGthere's no algorithm to autosort them15:20
Macerok... did't know that15:20
MohammadAGwell, initially15:20
Macermy bad15:20
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DocScrutinizer/join #maemo-ssu !15:21
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Macerwell.. geez.. now that i know that i want it active15:21
MohammadAGtrue -> false15:21
DocScrutinizerMacer: please, it's kinda OT here15:21
DocScrutinizernot really, just kinda15:22
Macerheh.. yeah.. i'm turning it back on15:22
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X-Fadeachipa: It worked now.15:27
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jargon-i can't seem to get bash history to work in bash3. everytime i tap PgUp i just get the tilde sign17:21
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SpeedEvilW T F17:28
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DocScrutinizerjargon-: same here, probably related to keymappings17:29
jargon-DocScrutinizer: hmmm17:30
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DocScrutinizerjargon-: man bash|less +"/Readline Key Bindings"17:39
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arnetAnybody knows, does maemo have a caching name server?17:44
merlin1991arnet: yes17:44
merlin1991it has dnsmasq running17:44
arnetammm... so I guess I need to restart dnsmasq17:45
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arnetbecause I need to add some ip's in /etc/hosts and17:45
arnetwhen I change them back17:45
arnetit still resolves the old ones17:46
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DocScrutinizersighup may do17:50
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DocScrutinizerjargon-: compare #> less /etc/inputrc ~/.inputrc*; #on your desktop and on N90017:53
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DocScrutinizerarnet: man dnsmasq: >>When  it  receives  a  SIGHUP,  dnsmasq clears its cache and then re-loads /etc/hosts and...18:00
DocScrutinizernice: >> When it receives a SIGUSR1, dnsmasq writes statistics to the system log. It writes the cache size, the  number  of       names  which  have  had  to removed from the cache before they expired in order to make room for new names and the       total number of names that have been inserted into the cache. For each upstream server  it  gives  the  number  of       queries sent, and the number which resulted in an error.18:02
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DocScrutinizerarnet: man dnsmasq|less +'/Addresses  in  /etc/hosts  will  "shadow" '18:06
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arnetDocScrutinizer: thanks18:32
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!18:34
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jargon-DocScrutinizer: thanks, that solved it. :-)19:15
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jargon-how to i import flogs calendar into n900?20:43
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Choomhas anybody here bought the N9 yet?20:52
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ChoomI'm interested in hearing what people think about harmattan, because as far as the hardware is concerned, the phone seems quite overpriced compared to the iPhone 4S20:54
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ChoomI would like to have an N9 for the nerd stuff (my main phone is the 4S), but am still trying to convince myself into buying it20:56
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merlin1991Choom: get an n900 instead20:59
merlin1991cheaper AND you can do the actual nerd stuff without getting buttfucked by aegis20:59
ChoomI've had an n900 for years20:59
Choomthe n9 would be an upgrade to that21:00
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Choomat least that's the theory21:00
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
Choomisn't that optional?21:01
merlin1991nope that is inbuilt21:01
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Choomi.e.: can't you just run unsigned code by telling the phone that you don't care?21:01
NIN101and because of aegis I consider it more like an downgrade in terms of software if you are doing "nerd-stuff".21:01
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merlin1991Choom: you can as long as it's not a kernel module or anything that already resides in the system21:03
merlin1991so upgrades21:03
merlin1991any other fun is not possible21:03
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merlin1991and wtf why is it overpriced compared to the 4s?21:03
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merlin1991at least here the 4s is about 100€ more expensive and inferior hardware wise21:04
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Choomdual core? more resolution? dual gpu? gyroscope?21:06
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petterin9 is the best phone out there by far21:08
petteriget it and forget n90021:08
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Choomin terms of user experience, how would you classify the n9 compared to an iphone?21:11
Choomit does not have to be better or even match it, I just don't wanna hear that it stutters or the frame rate is generally low21:11
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Choomor the touchscreen is irresponsive21:11
trampwhy don't you get an n900?21:12
Choombecause I already have one21:12
Choomand it's old, and the interface didn't age well21:12
Choomand the user experience is crappy21:13
trampwhat's wrong with the interface?21:13
trampwhat's wrong with the user experience??21:13
Choomthe frame rate is quite low21:13
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trampreally, what is it?21:14
Choomthe resistive single-touch touchscreen sucks, the interface stutters, the browser has to render stuff as you drag content over the screen, it is a terrible experience for anyone who's used to an iphone21:14
trampIt has great resolution21:14
ChoomI am hoping that the N9 fixes these issues without cutting too much on my ability to tinker with it21:15
trampthe resistive single-touch screen is great.  You can use any object to tap it, multi-touch is mostly a gimmick anyway.  The interface seems fine after I install the speedpatch21:16
Choomoh, and the n900 is extremely thick21:16
tramplike a computer ;)21:16
trampi like being able to fill its weight in my pocket, so i know its still there21:16
Choomtramp: I hate the n900 when it stutters while I scroll over nokia maps; the iOS google maps ap, by comparison, is always at 60fps21:16
Choomzooming is a chore on the n900, and worse than that it's also inconsistent, using the volume buttons in the browser and an on-screen controller in the maps app21:17
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tramptrue, maybe someone should make a google maps app21:17
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trampwhy use the volume controls to zoom, i almost never need anything besides the double-tap autozoom21:18
ChoomI didn't even know you could zoom by double tapping21:18
Choomin any case, dragging anything with a resistive touchscreen is a terrible experience21:19
trampit automatically zooms in on the text or item you tapped, making it fit the screen21:19
trampits perfect, and pwns the iPhones tiny view area21:19
Choomyeah, I gathered, it works the same on ios21:19
trampi agree, and the FIND feature in the browser is buggy21:19
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trampi wish firefox would increase of its mobile browser21:20
tramps/increase/increase the speed21:21
tramps/increase/increase the speed/21:21
infobottramp meant: s/increase the speed/increase the speed21:21
Choomoh and the n900 is quite thick21:21
tramplike a computer ;)21:21
trampi like the weight in my pocket21:21
trampi can feel it21:21
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trampi also like supporting companies that support quality, open source, and control over our phones21:22
Choomas an argument for being able to touch it with anything, I have a capacitive stylus that I bought for the ipad which obviously works on any capacitive screen, though I seldom use it, as the fingers are good enough due to those screens' sensitivity21:23
trampthe cellular network is partially redundant with the internet, and the phone companies arent going to want to give control over our phones because we'll circumvent their outrageous price for their limited network21:24
trampeven Nokia is going backward away from phone control21:25
ChoomI have an unlimited data plan on my ipad, I could easily use it to make only voip calls if I was in the mood to set it up21:25
trampI'm keeping the N900 until someone offers a replacement for this niche21:25
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Choomwhich I am not since my voice plan has a lot of voice time included21:25
trampyes, but the dataplan cost a mint, and dont they sell you phone service with that?21:26
Choomno, the data plan is just for data, I can't make phone calls with that card21:26
trampyou cant get data without buying their voice21:26
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trampwith IM voice chat and google voice, you can almost get free calls from any wifi21:27
Choomif I stick the card into my iphone and try to make a call, a lady will tell me that my plan does not allow me to make voice calls21:27
Choomnever tried to make phone calls through google21:29
trampi think the cellular and internet networks should merge and not be redundant21:29
Choomone of my issues is that I happen to have one of those epic sequential phone numbers that I don't want to get rid of :P21:30
Choombecause it's so easy to remember21:31
trampyou should be able to build packets and send them through the cellular network21:31
trampit should be documented and conform to standards as well21:31
Choomwell it can be feasibly done with these unlimited data plans, and I believe people who actually care about their phone bills would actually do it21:32
trampis it cheaper to use voice calls through the data plan?21:33
Choomit is theoretically free21:33
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trampim including the cost of the data plan21:33
Choomyou pay the data plan as usual, but since it's unlimited, if you have voip you can make calls21:33
Choomfor me it would be, because my voice plan also includes data21:34
trampi just didnt think you could get data plan without voice service21:34
Choomand that data is limited to 1Gb per month21:34
trampi would just get a prepaid dataplan and voice service, its rare im outside of a wifi zone21:34
trampmight skip the voice service if the dataplan is reliable enough21:35
SpeedEvilChoom: it's not possible to take your number with  you when changing providers? I knwo i can here.21:35
tramp...and here21:35
ChoomSpeedEvil: it is, but you get a warning when someone calls you to inform the person that they are calling a different provider21:35
* SpeedEvil wishes he'd started coding the grocery shopping app.21:36
SpeedEvilOh well.21:36
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* SpeedEvil hits up
trampwhat grocery shopping app?21:37
Choomtramp: data plans without voice are standard procedure for 3G internet dongles21:37
trampI'll try that when I shop for phone service21:39
trampSpeedEvil: What grocery shopping app?21:39
SpeedEvilA app, using their API.21:39
SpeedEvilIdeally featuring such things as being able to point phone at barcode, and say 'get me more of this'21:40
trampeurope only?21:40
SpeedEviluk only.21:41
ChoomI've played with barcode reading before, but only for code3921:41
trampthat is an awesome app ive wanted ever since i got a smartphone21:41
trampi only wish it was available in the US21:41
SpeedEviltesco have an API that lets you look up products by barcode.21:41
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trampit's a great idea, i know im not the only one who wants one21:43
SpeedEvil The UK is fortunate in that its population density make grocery delivery possible.21:44
SpeedEvilI have 4 supermarkets that will deliver to me.21:44
trampas a high-powered tech with a tricorder in his pocket, why does he have to search the whole damn store to find a price scanner!?21:44
SpeedEvilIn the US, this can't work (outside metropolitan areas.21:44
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DocScrutinizerin Germany this can't work as nobody can live from what the supermarket customer is willing to pay for such service21:45
trampi guess you scan a barcode in a store and it checks the price if delivered21:45
SpeedEvilPrice is 3 quid.21:45
SpeedEvilOn a tuesday night21:46
SpeedEvilIt's up to 6 quid on a sunday afternoon.21:46
nealDocScrutinizer: One of the stores near me charges 7 Euros to deliver and we use them when we buy a lot / stock up.21:47
nealDocScrutinizer: I'm pretty certain another one charges similar prices (but we haven't use them)21:48
vdvsomebody here who use qtsdk/qtcreator?21:49
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x29avdv: sup?21:50
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vdvx29a, i just can't get building for fremantle target work with qt sdk 1.1.321:51
vdvafter installing sdk, fremantle toolchain was missing21:51
vdvi've specified an option to updater21:52
vdvso that it's allowed me to choose and install it21:52
vdvso, it's now there21:52
vdvand building for simulator works21:52
vdvbut seems madde for fremantle is broken21:53
x29asimulator is independant from arm-gcc21:53
vdvwhen i do an arm build wrong headers are processed21:54
vdvfrom my current system qt21:54
vdvso build fails21:54
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x29ado you have a "Maemo" folder in qtsdk folder?21:54
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x29awhats in it?21:55
vdvsysroot and targets dirs are there21:55
vdvand it's possible from qtcreator add corresponding qmake21:55
vdvtoolchain is automatically added21:55
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x29aso it works from within qtcreator?21:56
vdvi can start a build at least21:56
vdvbut something is wrong with that qmake21:57
vdvbuild fails21:57
vdvi can pastebin build output21:57
vdvjust a sec21:57
x29ago ahead21:57
x29avdv: also checkout
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vdvi've used those instructions to download a toolchain21:59
vdvso, do you use qtcreator to make a build for maemo at the moment?22:01
vdvand deploying also works?22:01
x29avdv: but ive upgraded 1.0 onwards22:01
x29aor whatever that version was22:01
x29avdv: does building not work or deploying?22:02
x29ayou need to be specific with your problems, if you want serious help22:02
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vdvx29a, both22:03
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x29acome to the point, youre wasting my time22:04
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vdvx29a, sorry22:04
x29alol german22:04
vdvunder /usr/lib/qt i have system qt installed22:04
vdvwhich is 4.6.222:04
x29athats not relevant for the n900 target22:05
vdvit shouldn't be used during build process22:05
x29alooks like its using /opt/QtSDK/Maemo, which is good22:05
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vdvqmake runs normally22:06
x29acan you post your .pro file as well?22:06
vdvof course22:06
x29aand you used the qtcreator to add the fremantle target, right?22:06
vdvi've selected corresponding folder22:07
vdvhere's the pro file:
vdvit's the pro file of the normal default mobile gui project created in qtcreator22:08
vdvis that ok, that toolchain is installed under 4.6.2 dir?22:10
vdvqt version there is actually 4.7.022:10
x29ayep is fine22:10
vdvso, what i did is installed sdk version 1.1.3, then used this to add maemo toolchain22:11
vdvi'm on slackware 13.122:12
vdvi386, 32bit22:13
vdvwith qt 4.6.2 under /usr/lib/qt22:13
x29awhich example are you actually trying to build?22:14
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x29avdv: can you make a minimal testcase?22:15
vdvi create a new project22:15
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x29alike only a mainfunction?22:15
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vdvfrom qtcreator 2.3.022:15
vdvfrom wizard22:15
vdvMobile Application22:16
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vdvusing this instructions, i was able to build for maemo target, but it's not possible to tell qtcreator use that version of madde22:17
vdvso using those instructions i was able to build from terminal22:17
vdvrunning qmake of "qt4-tools-latest" mentioned in tutorial and then make as normal22:18
vdvin tutorial from the link above22:18
x29ai didnt have to do any of this22:19
vdvunderstand, it's assumed, that one should be able to build and deploy only using qtsdk22:20
vdvx29a, what can you tell about build output?22:20
x29ai think you messed it up somewhere, like updating a path or something22:20
x29alooks weird, would need to digg into the code, and i have no time to do that22:21
x29avdv: lemme create a package which works for me, so you can test with that22:21
vdvit's really weird, /usr/lib/qt/include/QtCore/qatomic_i386.h:132: error: impossible constraint in 'asm'22:21
vdvx29a, updating a path?22:23
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vdvx29a, do you also use linux version of the sdk?22:25
x29avdv: ok, i just tried creating a mobile qt stub, and it worked, build and deploy22:25
x29avdv: im afraid i cant do a step by step with you22:25
x29ayes, ubuntu 10.0422:25
vdvx29a, ok thanks anyway22:26
x29avdv: id advise you to get an "old" qt sdk version, where fremantle is distributed, check if that works, then upgrade with the updater22:26
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vdvi'll try to remove sdk, and install again22:26
x29ayep, thats your best bet22:26
x29acheck all steps mentioned in the tuts and so on22:26
vdvi think the problem is that slackware is not deb distro22:27
x29ano clue22:27
x29acertainly adds extra layer of issues22:27
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vdvx29a, sorry, do you maybe know where to get old versions of sdk?22:28
zogg_laptopMohammadAG: ping22:29
x29avdv: nope, but ping me when you find it22:32
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x29aand so on22:40
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zogg_laptopruskie: re22:44
vdvx29a, ah, good, thanks a lot!22:46
x29agood luck22:46
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zogg_laptopDocScrutinizer: does MohammadAG start to study already?22:52
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zogg_laptopdamn =(22:55
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zogg_laptopi have an idea about free whatsapp alternative22:57
zogg_laptopi was talking with him about22:57
zogg_laptopwanted advice22:57
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x29azogg_laptop: you gonna call it "i seek you"?22:58
zogg_laptopx29a: i found you22:58
zogg_laptopthere are no whatsapp alternative for n9 or n90022:58
Phlogistiquehey, is anyone using a twitter client with several accounts on his n900?23:00
nealyou should use this version though:
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nealit fixes a number of bugs and adds Woodchuck support (= sane automatic updates)23:01
nealPhlogistique: ^23:01
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zogg_laptopneal: are you dev btw?23:02
fralslol x29a23:02
nealzogg_laptop: What do you mean?23:02
zogg_laptopneal: tried to talk to khweeteur dev?23:02
nealzogg_laptop: I don't understand that either :/23:03
x29afrals: ;)23:03
zogg_laptopyou made fork with woodchuck or it's khertan?23:03
nealhe's integrated most of my changes23:03
Phlogistiqueneal: I'm not sure what you mean with "sane automatic updates" though23:03
nealbug hasn't made a new release23:03
zogg_laptopfrals is so in love with n9 i can say it from his tweets =)23:03
Phlogistiquedoes the Woodchuck-enabled Khweeteur send data to your Woodchuck server?23:03
x29adoes it even chuck wood?23:03
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nealPhlogistique: There is no woodchuck server on the internet23:04
nealPhlogistique: Woodchuck is middleware that runs on the n90023:04
nealPhlogistique: It figures out when to schedule transfers23:04
Phlogistiquewhat's Murmeltier then?23:04
Phlogistiqueoh ok23:04
nealPhlogistique: murmeltier is an implementation of woodchuck23:04
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nealPhlogistique: The original version would schedule updates every 10 minutes, even if you were connected via gprs23:05
nealPhlogistique: This is not what most people want23:05
nealPhlogistique: Moreover, it wastes battery power23:05
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nealPhlogistique: A Woodchuck server integrates environmental factors to determine when to do transfers23:06
Phlogistiqueneal: ok23:06
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Phlogistiqueinteresting project23:06
nealPhlogistique: e.g., whether there is wifi, cellular, how much battery power, etc.23:06
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nealPhlogistique: If you have a project, I'll help you integrate woodchuck support :)23:07
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PhlogistiqueI don't have a project, but I might have one soon if Khweeteur doesn't meet my needs23:07
clownishhey. is it possible, that the md5sums of the images at are wrong/not updated or something? i downloaded the Fiasco image several times, and never got the md5sum from the MD5SUM file.23:07
nealPhlogistique: Don't write another twitter client! :)23:08
zogg_laptopbtw does khweeteur runs on n9?23:08
nealzogg_laptop: Not yet.23:08
Phlogistiqueneal: why not?23:08
zogg_laptopand where is twitgo ? or what was the name?23:08
nealzogg_laptop: At least, it is not properly integrated.23:08
nealPhlogistique: Improve an existing one, instead23:08
zogg_laptopneal: i used it everyday when i had n900 =) but a lot of time passed23:09
Phlogistiqueneal: oh. Yes, indeed, why not.23:09
nealPhlogistique: would be nicer to a good one then a lot of medicre ones23:10
zogg_laptopneal: Phlogistique if you want to add too much features amke it modular =)23:11
Phlogistiquebut people needs in Twitter clients can be very different23:11
Phlogistiquezogg_laptop: I need complicated features, but I hate complicated programs :)23:11
zogg_laptopi need to go now23:13
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vdvx29a, i've moved my /opt/QtSDK dir to ubuntu vmware host (maemo sdk image) and there building and deploying is ok23:35
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x29avdv: good to know, glad you managed to get it running23:38
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vdvx29a, taking in account, that nokia doesn't officially support distros other than ubuntu, it was too naive to assume that sdk will work on my slackware23:39
vdvinspite all dependencies mentioned on sdk download site are met on slackware too23:40
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Phlogistiquedoes khweeter post every tweet to every tweeter account configured for posting?23:56
nealonly those you tell it to23:56
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PhlogistiqueI don't get how you choose which twitter account you want to post to. Or is it only the global setting?23:57
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nealare you using my version?23:57
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Phlogistiquewell I think so23:58
nealwhen you tweet, it asks you23:58
nealif you have more than one account23:58
Phlogistiqueit crashes all the time though23:58
nealthose that are select are the default and you can change them23:58
nealcan you send me ~/.khweeteur/logging23:59
Phlogistique(or it closes its mainwindow for a reason I can't understand)23:59
nealthere is likely a bug23:59
Phlogistiquethere is no such file23:59

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