IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-11-03

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DocScrutinizersee /topic00:48
DocScrutinizeractually it adds / fixes sth with certificates plugin of settings too00:49
DocScrutinizernot showing revoced certs as trusted anymore, or sth00:49
DocScrutinizerrevoked*00:49
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jonwilThanks to someone posting a nice piece of MPL1.1 licensed code to the mailing list, I now have a working neteal test00:59
jonwilthat can load any URL you pass it and run it in a browser view00:59
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SpeedEvil:)01:06
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Maceryour gray market coding?01:28
Macernokia should  just let the n900 be a free for all01:28
Macer:)01:28
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UberNeoHi all .. I got the thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79149 .. which also have the problem of dbus-daemon consuming the power .. but not much help01:39
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UberNeoSpeedEvil: I have got the output file for dbus-monitor ... shall i just look for text "method call sender"02:13
UberNeoalso strace of /usr/bin/Calendar is failing after the Segmentation Fault02:16
SpeedEvilNot sure02:18
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UberNeoi just did "lsof -i" and the output is  http://pastebin.com/n7bxv0mH   .. here whenever I am killing 'mafw-dbus' .. its automatcally getting started again..02:43
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UberNeosame with 'camera-ui' , 'app-detec'  and dnsmasq .. all of them are getting restarted again .. even after i killed them02:44
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merlin1991UberNeo: afaik all those applications are stated with dsmetool02:47
merlin1991look at it's command line options to stop the restarting02:47
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UberNeohttp://pastebin.com/TksD49jm -- ps -ef | grep mafw-dbus02:48
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jonwilFor the curious, I just posted an analysis of the PR1.3.1 update and its changes at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79400&page=1203:22
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Macermy n900 made it to cali03:37
Macerthat was faster than expected03:37
SpeedEvilCali?03:38
* SpeedEvil wishes again he could get broken n900s.03:38
SpeedEvilMeh.03:38
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Juozapas-sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/tasks: nonexistent directory04:25
Juozapas-sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/notify_on_release: nonexistent directory04:25
Juozapasdid anyone receive this error ? just when u open terminal04:26
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Sicelo~joergtools06:15
Sicelo~jrtools06:15
infobotmethinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools06:15
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Sicelomeh, didn't get update because i didn't have mp-fremantle-generic-pr06:20
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Macerlol07:33
Maceri was watching the e7 commercial on amazon07:33
Macerand they showed the ovi store for a minute. and scrolled down a bit07:33
Macerand i just thought to myself... "that's probably all it has" :)07:33
LaoLang_cool_newbie question... How to turn the phone off in N900?07:35
psycho_oreospress and hold the power button on top of the device?07:35
psycho_oreoserr07:35
psycho_oreosthat question is rather ambiguous, do you mean you want it to function as a pure tablet?07:36
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LaoLang_cool_psycho_oreos: sorry for my english ;p I mean the phone function, not the n900 itself07:36
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psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool_, press the power button once and it'll bring down a menu. Press tablet mode, that will switch off phone functionality07:37
color`codedoreos07:37
color`coded:o07:37
color`codedyummy07:37
LaoLang_cool_psycho_oreos: oh, it's called offline mode here :) thank you!07:38
psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool_, no worries07:38
psycho_oreosweird how its called offline mode, it sounds almost like a symbian device or a maemo clone (with symbian instead of maemo)07:39
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Macerhaha... "tablet mode" :)07:42
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Macerreally?07:42
psycho_oreoswhat's so funny about that?07:42
Macerdid you see the e7 commercial? the desktop looks maemoish07:42
Maceri don't know. i just think the n900 is rather small to be considered a tablet07:42
psycho_oreoson about E7 again.. gotta love symbian trolls07:43
Maceri'm not.. just thought it was a nice phone.. but the desktop does look like maemo07:43
psycho_oreosand the 770, N800, N810 are all too small to be `tablets' too?07:43
Macerat least it reminded me of maemo... my n900 made it to california :)07:43
Macerwell.. they were larger .. even tho the res was the same07:43
psycho_oreoslarger by what? 1 whole inch?07:44
Macer1" is a huge difference07:44
psycho_oreosto you it is07:44
Macertell that to a woman :)07:45
slonopotamusgentlemen, discuss your sizes in private :)07:45
Macerslonopotamus: hahaha07:45
Macerpsycho_oreos: size... really does matter :)07:45
psycho_oreosfor someone who hasn't been following the conversation, you just made yourself look more like a tool07:45
Macerslonopotamus: did you notice the symbian home screen looks kind of like amamo?07:46
psycho_oreosMacer, no, not when maemo has been largely considered as a tablet since its birth07:46
Macermaybe it is the other way around07:46
ShadowJKCome on, sizes and tools elsewhere ;P07:46
Macera newton was a tablet as well.. but calling an n900 "with a phone built in" was kind of lame07:46
slonopotamusMacer: no, i didn't look at symbian.07:46
Macerslonopotamus: it looks rather nice.. but i haven't bought one yet.. i am going to today or tomorrow tho... if it sucks i will use it as my everyday crap phone and put the n900 in a velvet case :)07:47
psycho_oreosyet N900 doesn't even have complete proper functionalities that you would normally find in a normal smartphone.. irony?07:47
Macerer... ok?07:47
Maceri think it worked fine a s a phone07:47
Macerit did voice and txts. what more do you want? :)07:48
* ShadowJK doesn't really need voice and text07:48
LaoLang_cool_it's ok07:48
Macertry to do that with meego!07:48
* slonopotamus personally doesn't care about *names*. i do care about functionality though.07:48
* Macer hides07:48
psycho_oreosit doesn't do MMS, it doesn't have portrait by default, and I'm sure there's hordes of other missing functionalities that a smartphone normally features.07:48
Maceroh.. you had "smart" in there07:49
LaoLang_cool_it can with fmms07:49
Maceri thought you jut meant "phone"07:49
Macerheh07:49
ShadowJKAlso doesn't do "Mobile TV", "Video Call", "Picture Sharing", "PTT", and a bunch of other stuff07:49
psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool_, that's not included by default, neither was in integrated into conversations07:49
psycho_oreoss/in/it/07:49
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: LaoLang_cool_, that's not itcluded by default, neither was in integrated into conversations07:49
LaoLang_cool_psycho_oreos: that's true, I'm experiencing with n900 for just half an hour ;p07:49
Maceri ams ure it would have been had nokia not dropped the nokia ball07:49
Macerer.. maemo ball07:50
* ShadowJK would've thought mms would fit better into email app07:50
psycho_oreoscare to elaborate on that note?07:50
MacerShadowJK: that would be nice07:50
* psycho_oreos points to Macer 07:50
Maceri always wish google would integrate google voice into google talk07:50
SpeedEvilmms is clearly 'deliver to console' SMTP07:51
Macerand if someone was unavailable it would txt07:51
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, and a dose of NIH07:51
Macerbut beggars can't be choosers :)07:51
ShadowJKbut such are all 3gpp things07:51
Macerpsycho_oreos: sure.. they dropped maemo.. i thought that was a pretty obvious statement07:51
Macerthen turned around.. and dropped meego :)07:52
Macerand symbian07:52
psycho_oreosMacer, like as if that was ever news07:52
psycho_oreosso how does that maketh maemo in the first place?07:52
Maceruhm.. well.. you asked07:52
ShadowJKthough MMS was never on their list of (planned) maemo features anyways :P07:52
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MacerShadowJK: meh. they'd have put it in had it become a default nokia OS i'm sure07:53
Macerbut they were running around with their heads chopped off watching their stock price go into the gutter while apple and htc were skyrocketing07:53
ShadowJKthey didn't and still don't have a concept of default os :P07:53
Macersure theyd o.. windows mobile07:54
Macer:)07:54
ShadowJKno07:54
Macerthey had plenty of concepts.. just no follow through07:54
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ShadowJKS40, if anything, is the default07:54
Macernot S60?07:54
ShadowJKS60 was renamed symbian, and is getting phased out and replaced by windows07:55
Macereither way... all i said was that the home screen on the e7 ooks rther similar to a maemo home screen07:55
Maceri jut thought it odd07:55
Macerargh.. damn transformer keyboard07:55
Macerbut... the e7 does look pretty nice even if it is obsolete07:56
Macersymbian had a bit of potential left... then again tho.. all nokia mobile operating systems did... they just didn't want to stick with them07:56
ShadowJKTHe only potential in symbian was that they might port QT to it, which would give a sane programming environment, but then, might just as well have used maemo underneath instead07:58
ShadowJKmaemo/meego07:58
Macerfair point07:58
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Macerblah. let me just buy an e7 off amazon right now. it looks like a pretty fair phone08:01
Macereven though i know i will be shooting myself in the foot expecting anything new to come out for it... it will make for a good secondary phone when my usb port breaks on my new n900 :)08:02
ShadowJKThe only nice thing about it is that is has a keyboard :P08:03
Macerheh08:04
Macerso does my g2... but it is a total piece of absolute crap08:04
psycho_oreosmore like the design inspired the N950 to look almost identical to E708:04
Macerpsycho_oreos: i would give anything in the world to put maemo on an e7 :)08:04
Maceror meego08:05
Macerthat woudl be absolutely awesome.. but never going to happen08:05
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ShadowJKDoesn't meet the minimum CPU requirements for meego, for one08:05
Macerisn't it like a 600MHz arm?08:05
psycho_oreosI'd rather get N950 instead and be happy08:05
dm8tbrit doesn't? what does it run?08:05
psycho_oreosarm11 cpu08:05
Macergeez.. these mobile operating systems are just being selfish nowadays08:05
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Macer:)08:06
dm8tbrorly?08:06
psycho_oreosit runs symbian by default08:06
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Juozapas-sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/tasks: nonexistent directory08:42
Juozapas-sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/notify_on_release: nonexistent directory08:42
Juozapasdid anyone receive this error ? just when u open terminal08:42
inzJuozapas, did you copy your .bashrc from desktop machine?08:45
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Juozapasnope08:47
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Juozapasactually i saw this error only once, just after healthcheck install. I open terminal for something, then i saw it and tried reboot. After reboot everything looks ok but anyway I'm curious what was/is wrong08:48
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LaoLang_coolhmm, swipe is not smooth enough in n90009:25
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RST38hehlo09:52
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meceRST38h, o/09:54
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jargon-is anyone else having issues this morning with connecting to their yahoo messenger account with Conversation? i've tried removing the removing the server entry as suggested on the maemo forum,but when i click save and come back to it, the server entry is back10:15
Sicelojust connected fine10:18
Sicelou have 5050 as your port, right?10:19
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jargon-Sicelo: yes 505010:31
Sicelomust be your operator then. mine also does strange stuff at times, eg unable to refresh feeds via gprs, complaining of parsing errors, while same feeds refresh without problems via wlan10:33
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rlyWhat is the browserd program? It takes up 93% CPU on the phone continuously.11:13
Siceloheh, just noticed on 3G i can update the feeds, but not 2G, meh11:13
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Siceloafaik browserd is the browser/web engine. you can kill it as user (not root). of course, it will re-spawn11:15
rlySicelo: and why does it take that much CPU?11:17
rlySicelo: bug?11:17
rlyThe first Google hit is basically "Dude! Search for the answer..."11:19
jacekowskirly: it's a web browser11:23
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jacekowskitry killing it11:24
jacekowskiit may help11:24
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jacekowskiunless you have browser currently open11:24
jacekowskiwith some flash stuff in it and whatnot11:24
rlyjacekowski: yes, the problem had already been solved.11:24
rlyjacekowski: I was just complaining about spam topics on talk.maemo.org.11:25
rlyAnd more specifically Google's inability to parse those.11:25
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jargon-neither 3g nor wlan let's Conversations sign on to yahoo,but skype & google talk work fine11:31
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jargon-are the pidgin protocols for Conversations still being maintained? no update in over a year...11:46
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rlyWhat is the 'network manager' mentioned on http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications?12:10
Sicelothe status menu button where u choose which connection to use12:15
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rlyLANG=C ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.1412:34
rlySIOCSIFADDR: No such device12:34
rlyusb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device12:34
rlyDo I need to do something special to obtain an usb0 device?12:34
rlyI have enough usb ports.12:34
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ZogGrly where are you trying to do it?12:35
ZogGon computer?12:36
rlyZogG: not on the phone, on the computer.12:36
ZogGyou need to run it on nokia12:36
ZogGtry to run it on phone12:36
rlyFor a typical Linux computer, one might use the command "ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14" (add "sudo" to the beginning of that command if necessary).12:36
rlyThen why do the instructions say the wrong thing?12:36
ZogGrly does it?12:36
rlyYes12:36
ZogGlemme see12:37
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rlyThis context says 'a typical Linux computer', which clearly isn't talking about the phone.12:37
rlyIt's also talking about the 'host', which also isn't the phone.12:37
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ZogGrly, cat /boot/config |grep -i USB_eth12:39
ZogGwhat linux do you use?12:39
rlyZogG: Debian12:39
ZogGrly ^12:39
Sicelowait12:39
ZogGcat /boot/config |grep -i USB_eth12:39
rlyZogG: that command says 'file or directory does not exists'.12:39
ZogGrly sudo mount /boot12:40
rlyZogG: it's just that the symbolic link does not exist.12:40
Sicelojust a moment ZogG, rly12:40
rlyZogG: but I have no USB_eth there.12:40
Sicelorly: did u choose PC suite mode?12:40
rlySicelo: that's the next step.12:41
ZogGSicelo i think it doesn't matter12:41
rlySicelo: I didn't complete this step yet.12:41
ZogGSicelo he might not have module/driver to use usb for network12:41
SiceloZogG: it matters12:41
ZogGSicelo, what distro do you use?12:41
rlyI am running 2.6.3212:41
psycho_oreosisn't that something like cdc_phonet?12:42
Sicelorly: that's not second step. iface won't be there if u haven't selected pc suite mode12:42
psycho_oreoswell most of the cdc related modules12:42
SiceloZogG: debian 612:42
psycho_oreoscdc_ether as well12:42
jonwilok, time to figure out which of the things on my "stuff I wanna investigate" list to do next12:43
Sicelorly.. u should follow the wiki step by step.. first pc suite mode, then ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 on pc, then ifup usb0 on N90012:43
rlySicelo: where does the wiki say first pc suite mode?12:43
rlySicelo: by that I mean, that it doesn't say that.12:43
Sicelohttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Starting_USB_network_mode12:44
psycho_oreosjonwil, any plans to release that bit of info on cell tower broadcast messages? I'm curious to give it a stab if its not too complicated :D12:44
psycho_oreoserr code rather12:44
ZogGrly he is right12:44
rlySicelo: It says: 'first setup the host'12:44
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rlyZogG: please explain that then.12:45
rlyZogG: because the Wiki surely says something different from my reading.12:45
Sicelowell, do it the way i said then12:45
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Sicelofirst pc suite mode, then ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 on pc,  then ifup usb0 on N90012:45
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ZogGrly it doesn't it explaines in the begging what it should do and than all steps12:46
jonwilhttp://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-October/028685.html has all the Cell Broadcast SMS stuff that I have done so far12:47
ZogGas well i bet if Sicelo has debian and he says what to do, he did it himself and know better12:47
jonwilwell not quite, I am still making tweaks to the algorithim12:47
psycho_oreoscool thanks, going to have a look :D12:48
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ZogGjonwil what is for?12:48
jonwilworks pretty good on my phone so far :)12:48
jonwilits for Cell Broadcast SMS12:48
Sicelo\0/ jonwil12:49
psycho_oreosto me its something like it'll change your operator name (from your device) to the suburb of your nearest cell tower12:49
ZogGjonwil don't know what it is12:49
psycho_oreoserr the name rather12:49
jonwilthats what it is12:50
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jonwilit grabs any cell broadcast tower name/id messages sent by the tower12:50
jonwiland displays them12:50
psycho_oreosZogG, I know for my old N95-1 you can turn that feature on, so you can get the name of your provider along the actual name of the cell ID rather than just numbers or in this case with maemo nothing actually appears12:51
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ZogGno clue what are you talking about12:51
ZogGyou mean when you get sms from your operator or any sms?12:51
ZogGand what and where it should show?12:51
jonwilwhat happens is that some operators send out a tower name or ID12:53
jonwilwhich is what gets displayed by my code12:53
rlyWhy do I lose my wifi connection when I connect via USB?12:54
psycho_oreosI'm looking for screenshots as my current N95-1 does not have a proper sim card so it cannot be registered but you get something like this on the top part of the screen: The signal level from provider, the connection type (2G,3G,3.5G), The name of the operator in all capitals followed by the name of the nearest connected cell tower's name (usually its the name of the suburb) along with the battery level12:54
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rlyI want that they all work at the same time.12:54
jonwilYou loose wifi because you can only have one network connection at once12:55
Sicelorly: N900 can have only one connection at a time, afaik.12:55
jonwilso WiFi or USB or 3G or whatever12:55
rlyHow inconvenient.12:55
rlyAny other phone which does multiple?12:55
SiceloNokia 9300i :P12:55
psycho_oreosicd rewrites the default gw each time you change the connection type. In theory you can be connected to more than one gateways but with an ugly hack and with default gw pointing to either one12:56
jonwilwell I have some ICD related things on my todo12:56
rlypsycho_oreos: icd?12:57
jonwilicd is what handles your network connection12:57
psycho_oreosrly, internet connection daemon, part of maemo12:57
psycho_oreosZogG, "Some mobile operators use Cell Broadcast for communicating the area code of the antenna cell to the mobile user (via channel 050), for nationwide or citywide alerting, weather reports, mass messaging, location based news, etc. Not all operators have the Cell Broadcast messaging function activated in their network yet, and many handsets do not have the capability to support cell broadcast." - quote from wikipedia12:57
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psycho_oreosIf that doesn't really help you then I'm afraid you have loads of reading to do ahead of you :p. Its a really nifty stuff if you're familiar with networking along with wireless networking, in fact the same set of knowledge goes on top of wireless networking really.13:00
rlyI can ping yahoo.com, and I get an ip address, but nothing comes back.13:01
Sicelorly ... u need that script from yesterday again :P13:02
jonwilNot sure what I should work on next13:02
SiceloN900 is on a different subnet. 192.168.2...13:03
* psycho_oreos thinks the stuff in tmo bugjars might be worth revisiting jonwil ;) if you're keen13:04
jonwilwhich stuff specifically?13:04
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jonwilpoint me at actual n900 system software bugs in closed source software worth looking at13:04
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psycho_oreoswell that depends on your interest lol, umm13:05
rlySicelo: I also have two default routes.13:05
rlySicelo: that also seems wrong.13:05
rlyI just don't get how people make this stuff so complicated.13:05
Sicelothese routes are on N900?13:05
rlyThere is no need for all this complexity.13:05
jonwilhmmm, I could work on icd or browser bits or connectivity widgets or the lockscreen stuff13:05
rlySicelo: yes13:05
rlydefault         192.168.2.111   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 usb013:06
rlydefault         10.42.43.1      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 wlan013:06
Sicelowhat is 192.168.2.111?13:06
psycho_oreoslooks like two default gateway define there, not a good idea13:06
psycho_oreoss/define/defined/13:07
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: looks like two default gateway defined there, not a good idea13:07
psycho_oreoshmm where was that bugjar page. I swear I saw it somewhere.. might just be a thread13:07
Sicelorly... usb0 on pc side should be 192.168.2.14. that's how N900 wants it13:07
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rlySicelo: I  have that.13:11
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psycho_oreosjonwil, hmm my bad, it seems like its only for extras, so these are per program specifics rather than what I thought it would have been the specific closed bits and pieces which requires attention: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3710613:12
psycho_oreosaccording to that dumped route output, it doesn't appear to be13:13
psycho_oreosand two default gateway flags defined (hint `UG') is not a good idea13:13
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rlypsycho_oreos: now I have one route.13:14
Sicelolet's see it13:14
rlydefault         192.168.2.111   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 usb013:14
rly192.168.2.0     *               255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 usb013:14
rlyI switched the order of the lines.13:14
psycho_oreosthe default gateway is still pointing to 192.168.2.111 as opposed to what Sicelo previously mentioned 192.168.2.1413:15
rlyBut I configured it to be 192.168.2.111.13:15
Sicelo:/13:15
rlyI used 192.168.2.111 where the instructions said 192.168.2.1413:15
psycho_oreosthen iptables, etc needs to be adjusted accordingly13:15
rlyIs 192.168.2.14 a magic number?13:16
rlyI'd hope not.13:16
psycho_oreosno, its just the way things should work. If it works (for starters) you can then later on change it to whatever you want instead of changing to whatever you want initially and not caring about what wiki states13:16
psycho_oreosi.e. you don't go changing things if you're not completely aware of what needs to be changed. Nobody will mock/laugh at you even if you used the default config from the wiki page, but if you decide to go about your own way without even testing what is mentioned on the wiki, it over complicates things13:18
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rlyOk, how do I bring down the usb0 interface?13:18
rlyifdown usb0 doesn't work.13:18
psycho_oreosifconfig usb0 down?13:18
rlyThat does work.13:18
psycho_oreosifdown would require those network scripts13:18
Sicelopsycho_oreos: well put \0/13:20
psycho_oreosheh ta13:21
psycho_oreosalso its not really a `magic' number as per se. I have three N900 here, two of my N900 have been properly configured for USB networking. The first N900 uses the wiki stated configs, and the second one uses a slightly different setup (different subnet, different IP address and therefore different gateway).13:22
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rlypsycho_oreos: ok, I can ssh via usb to the phone, but I cannot ping google.com13:28
Siceloyour /etc/resolv.conf13:28
Sicelo:/ no13:28
psycho_oreos^13:28
psycho_oreosbetter yet add google DNS entries13:29
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rlypsycho_oreos: I did that.13:29
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Siceloi think you will need also iptables to do NAT between usb0 on your laptop and it's external interface13:29
Sicelothat's how i used to do it13:30
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psycho_oreosalso make sure you have enabled ip_forwarding in the unix proc13:31
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Siceloyesterday's script rly ;)13:31
rlySicelo: this is not on my laptop.13:31
rlyIt also appears that I lost name lookups on this machine now?!13:32
Siceloit doesn't matter. what ever other machine u are using, lol13:32
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rlyIf I break the N900 connection, my machine can visit websites again.13:34
psycho_oreosimproperly configured routing/firewall can cause that13:35
rlyI now enabled the forwarding.13:36
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rlyI don't even have a firewall, AFAIK.13:36
psycho_oreos*facepalms*, that is what you're supposed to do pretty much at the beginning, as per noted from wiki... also linux always has firewall by default, its just doesn't come configured and its called iptables13:37
psycho_oreoss/configured/preconfigured/13:37
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: *facepalms*, that is what you're supposed to do pretty much at the beginning, as per noted from wiki... also linux always has firewall by default, its just doesn't come preconfigured and its called iptables13:37
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rlypsycho_oreos: where does it say that on the wiki?13:38
rlypsycho_oreos: I mean an actual quote.13:38
rlyIt isn't mentioned here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking13:40
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psycho_oreosrly, its mentioned under host configuration sections13:40
Sicelorly.... it is mentioned,13:40
Siceloand i have countlesss time pointed u to a script that automatically does it for you..13:41
Siceloall u supply is the two interfaces involved13:41
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rlyDid anything change between Lenny and Squeeze for configuring this stuff?13:44
Sicelonothing13:44
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Siceloi used this cript on  knoppix (based on lenny) & now on squeeze13:45
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LaoLang_coolHow to open multi xterm on N900?13:49
rlySicelo: the script from the wiki?13:49
rlySicelo: or the one you mentioned yesterday?13:50
rlyAgain, I lose Internet after executing all those commands.13:50
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rlyOr rather, I lose DNS queries.13:50
rlyAnd pings.13:50
rlyThe only reason IRC remains working is probably because there already is a connection.13:50
Sicelothe one i mentioned. btw, what machine/os is that that keeps losing dns... and how is it connected to internet?13:51
rlyCan I paste 6 lines here?13:52
rlyThe Web doesn't actually work now.13:52
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rlyOr go to #mypastes13:53
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jonwilhmmm, maybe I might try and clone the wifi/network status widget14:19
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jonwilCant get much further with the cbsms stuff since I dont know enough about gconf and hildon-control-panel14:21
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jonwiloh snap, that value is in miliseconds not seconds14:21
jonwilso I gotta do yet another respin14:21
Macerwth is amazon prime?14:22
SpeedEvilIt's free shipping in exchange for a subscription.14:24
Macerfree 2 day shipping ;)14:25
Macerthe shipping might actually be worth the $79/year14:25
Macerbut then again i don't usually order more than a couple things a year from amazon so maybe not :)14:26
SpeedEvilI got a free trial of it, which was handy, as I got afree shipping on a couple of items.14:26
SpeedEvilDon't forget to cancel.14:26
Macerhaha14:27
Maceri'm sure it won't stay at 79/year for long14:27
Macernor will it continue to have a free tiral because of people like you :)14:27
Macerhahaha14:27
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SpeedEvilSure it will.14:27
SpeedEvilPeople like me are factored in.14:27
SpeedEvilAnd people like me that forget to cancel it.14:27
Maceryou think?14:27
Macerthat is a huge chunk to lose on shipping costs14:27
SpeedEvilIt's been around that price for some time.14:28
SpeedEvilAmazon tends to pay really quite small amounts on shipping.14:28
Macerthen why do they charge $10 for 2day shipping on an e7?14:28
Macerweight vs price seems off when dealing with shipping pricing14:29
Macerit is just whatever someone decides to charge you for putting it in a box it seems14:29
SpeedEvilAmazon shipping is complex.14:29
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SpeedEvilAs a retailer, amazon takes their cut of the shipping fee.14:29
SpeedEvilEven if they don't touch the product.14:29
Macerthat seems rotten14:30
SpeedEvilMeh.14:30
Macermy n900 left california14:30
* DocScrutinizer moos violently14:30
Maceren route to chicago from hk :)14:30
Maceronly took about a week to get to california .. i'm kind of impressed14:31
* DocScrutinizer wishes Nokia had provided him with a tracking number14:31
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Macermakes me wonder why it took me 2 months to get a package in iraq via usps.. but a pkg from ebay shipped from hk takes 2 weeks14:31
psycho_oreostracking number for which? replacement N950?14:32
Maceryou had to replace an n950? rather new isn't it?14:32
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Macercan't say i'm surprised after sending in my brand new transformer to be repaired for a screen with bad pixels14:32
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jonwilhmmm, what to work on next. http://pastebin.com/5gCdnJwT is the list of things I am thinking about working on, anyone want to suggest specific ideas from that list I should do?14:36
SpeedEvilis the wireless cal stuff interesting if you can jsut flash the gloal image?14:38
SpeedEvilAlso - what tutorial applet?14:38
jonwilthe "getting started" applet, the one that runs that swf file14:38
jonwilits basically a browser window with a swf file in it14:39
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jonwilbut it would be a great example of how to embed a browser window14:39
SpeedEvilAh!14:39
rlyKernel IP routing table14:40
rlyDestination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface14:40
rly192.168.2.0     *               255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 n90014:40
rly192.168.2.0     *               255.255.255.0   U     1      0        0 eth014:40
jonwilas for the wl1251-cal stuff, going to remove it from the list14:40
rlydefault         192.168.2.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth014:40
rlyI have that routing table. Why can't I ping 192.168.2.1?14:40
jonwildont think its actually worth further work now that I think about it14:40
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: hostmode N914:40
SpeedEvilrly: Is the other side proeprly configured?14:40
rlySpeedEvil: define other14:40
SpeedEvilOther side of the cable14:41
jargon-how do i forward an SMS in Conversations? anybody know?14:41
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jonwilso any ideas for what I should do from my list?14:41
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rlySpeedEvil: I am currently using that connection to chat.14:41
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, ahh I see.. wait what? hostmode N9? you mean in other words N9 doesn't normally come with hostmode? hmm no that doesn't sound right either14:41
rlySpeedEvil: so, I think it is, yes :)14:41
rlySpeedEvil: also, when I break the n900 connection, it works.14:41
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jargon-nevermind. found out how14:42
SpeedEvilOperator-name into extras?14:42
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: N9 comes with hostmode? BWAHAHAAAHA14:42
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: N8 does14:42
DocScrutinizerI know14:42
jacekowskiN8 FTW14:42
psycho_oreosFTL14:42
rlyDocScrutinizer: can you have a look at the above routing table?14:42
DocScrutinizerWTF14:42
DocScrutinizerrly: no14:42
rlyDocScrutinizer: can you have a look at the above routing table, please?14:43
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I remember seeing a thread about N9 charing N900 or something.. I could be wrong however but if N9 doesn't do hostmode, that's yet again another crippling feature thanks to Flop14:43
SpeedEvilIf you can use the connection, not pinging isn't a routing thing.14:43
psycho_oreoss/charing/charging/14:43
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: DocScrutinizer, I remember seeing a thread about N9 charging N900 or something.. I could be wrong however but if N9 doesn't do hostmode, that's yet again another crippling feature thanks to Flop14:43
SpeedEvilThe connection is dropping ping, for some reason, or the client on the other end is not responding to pings14:43
jonwilcant really work on operator-name-cbs-widget because I dont have the skills to do the config stuff really14:43
SpeedEvilah14:44
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: N900 didn't have hostmode14:44
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and that was before elop14:44
rlySpeedEvil: I also cannot browse websites right now.14:44
rlySpeedEvil: I cannot ping any place on the internet.14:44
SpeedEvilrly: can you tcpdump on the other side?14:44
psycho_oreosjacekowski, by default it doesn't but they were hastening to release N900 anyway at the time14:44
rlySpeedEvil: no, that's my router, which has been functioning correctly for basically forever.14:44
jonwilany other suggestions from my list guys?14:44
SpeedEvilrly: This is usb-ether?14:44
rlySpeedEvil: yes14:44
rlySpeedEvil: so Router <=> PC <=> USB-ether phone14:45
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SpeedEvilI'm unsure - most of it seems reasonable.14:45
psycho_oreosjonwil, none that I can think of to be frank. Other than making wl1251 do master mode? that's almost literally impossible14:45
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rlySpeedEvil: PC <=> Phone works.14:45
SpeedEvilrly: ah14:45
SpeedEvilrly: you need to setup NAT/masquerading on the PC14:45
rlySpeedEvil: and normally I can ping my router just OK.14:45
SpeedEvilOr point-point route to the router14:46
SpeedEvilyou can ping the PC? Can you ping the router?14:46
rlyallow-hotplug n90014:46
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: somebody here is talking him into bridging14:46
rlyauto n90014:46
rlyiface n900 inet static14:46
rlyaddress 192.168.2.1414:46
rlynetmask 255.255.255.014:46
rlyup iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE14:46
rlyup echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward14:46
rly        down iptables -D POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE14:46
rlydown echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward14:46
rlyYou mean like this?14:46
SpeedEvilyou need the right modules14:46
rlyI did that.14:46
rlySpeedEvil: I didn't do that.14:46
SpeedEvilIf you don't have the masq module/configured in - it won't work14:46
rlySpeedEvil: which modules?14:46
jonwilhmmm, I think I might do the connectivity widgets14:46
jonwili.e. the wifi status bar gizmo14:47
psycho_oreosjacekowski, also had Flop not came around, maybe we would have seen N950 been properly sold.. not these stupid qwerty-less variants.. and with N950 only be given to developers under some stupid contract and if they damage their N950, they won't get a replacement (like what happened to MohammadAG)14:47
jonwilan open clone of that might help14:47
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: err - MohammadAG was given a replacement, that Israeli customs are pondering exploding.14:47
SpeedEvilBut that's not really nokias fault.14:47
rlySpeedEvil: which modules? http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications doesn't mention those.14:48
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, yet he was entitled to get another one should customs lose it, no?14:48
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: they've exploded his replacement n950?14:48
DocScrutinizerit's actually MohammadAG 's fault more and more - he ought have reported to Nokia DDP some weeks ago, so sender could have complained14:48
* jonwil wonders what Israeli customs has against Nokia handsets anyway14:48
rlyAlso, why doesn't it say "cannot understand configuration" or something like that.14:48
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: how many replacements you can send14:48
SpeedEvilrly: you need the right modules on the PC side14:48
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psycho_oreosjacekowski, I've not sent any and I won't be sending any of mine to nokia care anyway. It'll probably never get returned because they want to get rid of maemo users14:49
* SpeedEvil suspects his n900 has been thrown in a bin today.14:49
rlySpeedEvil: yes, but which modules?14:49
SpeedEvil(should have arrived at the repair centre today)14:49
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: there are better phones around14:49
psycho_oreosjacekowski, there's none equivalent to N900, period14:50
jacekowskiand maemo doesn't have enough applications to make it work14:50
SpeedEvilrly: I forget the details - they are the iptables modules dealing with masq14:50
jacekowskiat least not in mainstream14:50
jacekowskinokia lumia has a chance to pick up in mainstream14:50
psycho_oreosjacekowski, at least not sold in a fashionable way that you can use14:50
psycho_oreoslumia is full of fail14:50
jacekowskilike what?14:50
psycho_oreoswp7 woes?14:51
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Macere7 comes hostmode as well :)14:51
jacekowskiwith wp7 nokia has a partner that can and will spend a lot of money on marketing14:51
* Macer hides14:51
jogaheh, yeah, MS marketing is rad14:51
jonwilwp7 is fail period14:51
jacekowskiwith n9 nokia was alone pretty much14:51
joga:p14:51
psycho_oreosseen that list of woes with wp7 as shallimus on tmo put on his signature?14:51
Macerjacekowski: i think the networks would market it more than MS14:51
Macerlook at how much they market android :)14:51
jacekowskiMacer: well, regardless, somebody will market it14:52
jacekowskimaemo, not so much14:52
psycho_oreosspinning turd around14:52
jacekowskiand they have to think about what is going to sell14:52
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Maceri think ms will have to suck the bill up for that one14:52
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Macernobody wants to market it for them since android and ios do so well14:52
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: i will bet that n900 was one of lowest selling phones14:52
jogatoo bad having good marketing doesn't help if you just want a good phone like n90014:52
Maceri used a winmob phone. it reminded me of a zune14:52
joga:)14:52
psycho_oreosjacekowski, so what if it is? it has the features and the functionalities I pretty much need14:53
Macerjacekowski: only because they stopped making them :)14:53
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: they are not going to make phone only for you14:53
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: you can't support whole company14:53
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: they HAVE to think about what is going to make them money14:53
psycho_oreosjacekowski, did I say I needed to support a fail company?14:53
jacekowskiexactly14:53
jacekowskithey don't care about you14:53
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Maceri think swapping to winmob was a good move for nokia14:54
psycho_oreosjacekowski, I have to THINK? umm no14:54
Macerthey can keep "professionals" on their phones14:54
Macerand integrated exchange probably works way better on a windows phone14:54
psycho_oreosbut that's ok, time will tell if their mango handsets sell14:54
psycho_oreosits all rubbish with microsoft and apple suing the living hell out of google14:54
rlySpeedEvil: iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE # executes correctly.14:54
Macerdon't forget oracle :-P14:54
Maceryou are masqing a phone?14:55
Macerlol14:55
psycho_oreosjacekowski, the bottom line is that Flop was fail from beginning14:55
Macerflop is what they call meego nowadays?14:55
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: no14:55
rlyMacer: I want to be able to ping my router on my PC and ping the phone on 192.168.2.15.14:55
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psycho_oreosjacekowski, and no I don't have high demands, I'm not the sort of person that would care to buy new nokias as they roll out onto the shops14:55
Macerrly: then why are you going through all that? if they are connected to the same wifi router it should just work14:56
psycho_oreosjacekowski, its ok, we shall see if this turd burger, ahem mango flies14:56
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: nokia has to think about what will sell14:56
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: maemo didn't sell14:56
rlyMacer: don't complicate things.14:56
psycho_oreosjacekowski, and they chose mango, wise choice.. yes wise choice indeed14:56
Maceruhm14:56
rlyMacer: this is usb over ethernet.14:56
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: people said same thing about iOS14:56
Maceroh14:56
rlyMacer: ethernet over usb.14:56
psycho_oreosjacekowski, maemo was what? wasn't it a niche market for starters?14:56
Macerthat seems like a bad way to do it :)14:57
psycho_oreosjacekowski, except iOS was quite different fyi, have a look at ipods14:57
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and yet, in 4 years iOS has a majority of market14:57
psycho_oreosjacekowski, ipods were the one that created the trend for iphones14:57
Macerso you're just using the phone as a wifi adapter?14:57
Maceri guess that is a pretty good thing to do now that i think about it... a quick wifi adapter for those on the go moments14:57
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: doesn't matter, it sells14:58
psycho_oreosjacekowski, again its not iOS alone that did the job, you do realise ipod created the trend and because people generally have fetish over apple products.. afterall we all know that apple has been a huge anti PC competitor since its birth14:58
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: maemo didn't sell enough to support whole company14:58
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jacekowskisymbian is almost dead as well14:58
Macerjacekowski: actually .... android has the majority of the market now ;)14:58
psycho_oreosjacekowski, and so they chose windows apart from all the other possible solutions? wise choice indeed..14:58
Macerin less time than ios too14:59
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: like what?14:59
Macerheh14:59
psycho_oreosjacekowski, like what Flop did14:59
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: i mean other possible solutions14:59
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: name them14:59
jacekowskiMacer: well, they both have big part of the market14:59
Macerpsycho_oreos: macs are PCs :)14:59
psycho_oreosyou have android, you have symbian, you have bada, you have meego14:59
psycho_oreosMacer, these days they are but they're not completely identical to PC :รพ14:59
Macerthey were competitors when they were ppc.. now they are just PCs with a different OS14:59
psycho_oreosMacer, they still don't use BIOS, they use EFI fyi15:00
psycho_oreosjacekowski, ^^^15:00
psycho_oreoswho said about no other choice jacekowski? who said nokia had to choose microsoft?15:00
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: symbian is dying, bada is not fully open source yet and it's15:00
psycho_oreosjacekowski, and symbian had how much of market share at the time?15:01
jacekowskinow?15:01
jacekowski30% maybe15:01
psycho_oreosjacekowski, which countries produces symbian clones for various lookalike handsets?15:01
Macerlol15:01
psycho_oreosjacekowski, and don't forget that nokia WAS one of the top manufacturers for handsets way before Flop came in15:02
jacekowskino15:02
jacekowskithey weren't15:02
jacekowskithey sales were going down before elop came in15:02
psycho_oreosthen who was?15:02
jacekowskisymbian was dead long before15:02
Macerhttp://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/pe7150/en/ug/35ruvc20.htm15:02
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Macerwhat does EFI have to do with the arch?15:02
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: they all have about same market share now15:03
MacerDell uses EFI as well. EFI was SUPPOSED to replace the BIOS idiocy still being used from the before time15:03
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and besides, there is big market in US and nokia doesn't exist on it15:03
psycho_oreosMacer, I didn't specifically note that EFI has to do with arch, I'm talking in relative differences that Macs still use EFI15:03
Maceruhm15:03
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: my laptop has EFI15:03
psycho_oreosjacekowski, not so15:03
jacekowskii think you are quite far away from reality15:04
Maceras do i15:04
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psycho_oreosjacekowski, apart from US where you have other huge markets out there to look at, you haven't seen what is the norm15:04
Macera mac is a "PC" nowadays. but then again... in the literal sense..a  PC is simply any computer used by an end user15:04
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jacekowskipsycho_oreos: well i'm in the UK15:05
Macersomehow "PC" has been used to describe the x86 arch15:05
Macerwhich i never understood15:05
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psycho_oreosjacekowski, never implied you were from US15:05
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and most popular phone here is an iphone15:05
jacekowskiin my company15:05
psycho_oreosjacekowski, point being?15:05
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jacekowskinokia has half of apple marketshare in here15:06
psycho_oreosjacekowski, apple may still have a large market share but its not as big as android conglomerate for the time being15:06
psycho_oreosand nokia is falling way behind15:06
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and that was the case even year ago15:06
jacekowskibefore elop15:06
psycho_oreosjacekowski, so are you saying the news was all a fud?15:07
Maceri blame stskeeps15:07
jacekowskino15:07
jacekowskii'm saying that nokia is in very bad position15:07
Macerthey have been in a bad position for a very long time15:07
jonwilI think I might work on "figure out external stuff done by icd2 and its plugins", I know people would be interested in it15:07
jacekowskiand they were in bad position for very long time15:07
Macerthey just didn't want to admit it or couldn't see it since they were on the top of the mountain for so long15:07
jacekowskiand i don't think they want to be just another symbian OEM15:07
psycho_oreosit still does not give them the equitable position to choose microsoft as a partner15:07
jacekowskiandroid OEM*15:08
jacekowskimicrosoft already has mobile experience15:08
jacekowskithey have a platform15:08
psycho_oreosor lack thereof15:08
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jacekowskiwindows mobile15:08
jacekowskiit worked15:08
jacekowskiit was biggest platform15:08
jacekowskiit was a platform that killed palm os15:08
psycho_oreosand wp7 with issues15:08
Maceri think they are just using winmob as a stopgap until they can make something worth using by the masses15:08
psycho_oreosand how big was palm os?15:09
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jacekowskipsycho_oreos: before, 100% of market15:09
Macerhopefully this time they keep it to themselves so it doesn't get all the hype that meego had15:09
Macerand they just release it without anybody seeing it coming15:09
Maceri blame open source15:09
Macer:)15:09
psycho_oreosjacekowski, I think that's an overstatement15:09
Macercompanies love to preach "open" .. it reminds me of obama and "change"15:09
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psycho_oreosand I wouldn't back microsoft, they're hacker hostile, not much different from apple15:11
Macerthe cattle aren't hackers15:11
Macerthey want shining lights and beeping noises15:11
psycho_oreosthe cattle aren't always hackers15:11
Macerthey don't care about open development.. they're companies.. money is the bottom line15:12
Macerif you don't like it but 10,000,000 do.. then oh well :)15:12
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Macernot to mention the headaches avoided by keeping dev in house15:12
jacekowskiDuring all of last year, Palm accounted for 58% of handhelds sold. In 2000, that number was 71%. It was a bad year for Palm,15:12
* psycho_oreos recalls of wm or wp7 rooting tool. They (microsoft) apparently paid these developers who made jailbreaks to hush up15:12
jacekowskithey lost that marketshare because of symbian and winmo15:13
jacekowskiwinmo was replaced by android15:13
psycho_oreosit still doesn't mean that winmo had 100% of market share, that's the bottom line15:13
jacekowskisymbian held little bit better15:13
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jacekowskipsycho_oreos: they had most of market before android15:14
psycho_oreosjacekowski, indeed but they didn't dominate the market15:14
jacekowskibut they had big chunk of t15:14
jacekowskiof it15:14
Macerdoesn't "most" = "dominate"15:14
jacekowskino15:14
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Maceri think 50%+ of a market with more than 4 competitors is a good domination15:15
Macerapple still technically has android beat considering android maintains its percentage of use across many different platforms and companies15:16
psycho_oreosor I could have simply put it as obliterate15:16
Macerwhereas ios is apple only15:16
Maceranother win for closed dev :)15:16
psycho_oreosand apple likes it like that15:16
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: why they wouldn't15:16
jacekowskiit works for them15:16
jacekowskiif microsoft and nokia go for same model it may work for them15:17
Macerit makes them a $hitload of money15:17
jacekowskiesspecialy that they have market experience15:17
jacekowskiif they can pull it off15:17
Maceri am sure there are plenty of people at nokia facepalming and saying "why didn't we do that first"15:17
* SpeedEvil sighs at another closed platform.15:18
Macerand they had kingitis... where they lost vision because they were on the top for so long15:18
psycho_oreosjacekowski, hint word: may.. however for now all the news has gone and past that nokia was a pretty much a burning platform with shares dipping after Flop came in, I can see a charred platform15:18
MacerSpeedEvil: lol... apply for a job there ;)15:18
Macerthen it will be open to you15:18
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: symbian was going down before elop came in15:19
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: err, lost topic, please help me out. Another closed paltform?15:19
Macernot only that... but there is a structure.... with a leader... who says how things go... and keeps things in order.. instead of the constant open forking15:19
psycho_oreosjacekowski, I'm not talking about OS wise, I'm talking about the company in general15:19
jacekowskihttp://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/12128_The_smartphone_crystal_ball_th.php15:19
psycho_oreosjacekowski, but symbian still has had a large market share15:19
psycho_oreosat least 10 times larger than maemo15:20
jacekowskithat's why they have N815:20
Macermaemo never had very much of a share15:20
jacekowskiand other symbian phones15:20
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jacekowskibut a good business plan has few exit strategies15:21
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jacekowskiif they can't make anything out of symbian they have wp715:21
psycho_oreosmaemo was only targeted for niche markets15:21
jacekowskiif they can't do anything there they may go for android15:21
Macerjacekowski: i honestly hope they do ... "fix" symbian15:21
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Macerit would be a shame to see symbian go... regardless of what people say about it.. it probably really is the best mobile OS ever made15:22
psycho_oreosby the time they switch to android I don't think they would have that much funds to pull off nice handsets but we shall see. maybe the end of nokia is pretty much here if mango is killed15:22
Macerin terms of power vs performance etc15:22
jacekowskiMacer: well, it's kinda hard to introduce "new" platform to market15:22
jacekowskiMacer: symbian^3 with touch is quite new thing15:23
Maceralthough i REALLY wish they stuck with maemo15:23
Macerheh15:23
jacekowskigoogle had a lot of funds to pull that off15:23
jacekowskicoming from other sources15:23
jacekowskinokia doesn't have that15:23
Macerjacekowski: i am buying an e7 still15:23
Macerregardless of symbian dying or not ;)15:23
jacekowskiMacer: why not n8?15:23
Macerqwerty15:23
DocScrutinizerI think Nokia still has more money than a single person can move... every day15:23
Maceri want the kb15:24
jacekowskiMacer: swype works very well on n815:24
SpeedEvilSwipe/swype is a horrible confusion.15:24
Macerjacekowski: i hate swype... and vkbs in general15:24
Maceri refuse to buy a phone without a keyboard15:24
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jacekowskii don't write poems on phone15:24
jacekowskiso i don't really care15:24
jacekowskii have a laptop for that15:24
jacekowskithat i ussualy take with me to most places15:24
Maceri don't either... but i still write a lot of IMs and txts15:24
DocScrutinizerI wrte unix cmdlines on my phone15:25
Macerand hate vkb15:25
psycho_oreosI write scripts on my device15:25
MacerDocScrutinizer: me too15:25
Macerthat's a pretty big one15:25
Macerssh without a qwerty sucks15:25
Macerthe vkb takes up the screen15:25
DocScrutinizerand still doesn't offer |{}\15:26
psycho_oreosand if vkb dies on you when you don't have a qwerty built-in, you're pretty much SOL until you purchase a compatible BT keyboard15:26
DocScrutinizeretc15:26
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DocScrutinizerwell, if $XY dies, you're usually SOL15:27
Macer:) vkb?15:27
Maceri am wondering how a vkb can die on you15:27
psycho_oreostouchscreen functionality15:27
DocScrutinizeralso notice that BT kbd doesn't work with HARM/N915:27
jacekowskiSOL?15:27
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Macerjacekowski: shit out of luck15:27
psycho_oreosMacer, install mscim/qimsys on N900 from extras-devel.. enjoy15:28
DocScrutinizer~sol15:28
infobot[sol] Shit Outta Luck.  Sex On Legs.  Earth's star, or the note that precedes La, or but really straight out of luck, or a shit beer15:28
psycho_oreosor even portrait keyboard, sometimes that even breaks the vkb easily15:28
Maceri hate words like outta15:28
jacekowskithat's nigga english15:28
DocScrutinizer~factinfo sol15:29
infobotsol -- last modified at Mon Oct  6 03:23:25 2003 by debian!~mcppala@is7.pacific.net.hk; it has been requested 3 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 55s ago.15:29
Macerjacekowski: in the US we call it ebonics15:29
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DocScrutinizer~wtf sol15:30
infobotSOL: shit out [of] luck15:30
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Macerironically enough... when schools wanted to rid the world of it... we had a big racism things because "ebonics is part of a culture and should be accepted"15:30
psycho_oreos<DocScrutinizer> also notice that BT kbd doesn't work with HARM/N9 <--- with some hope and maybe luck, we may see a light to this never ending hell hole tunnel15:30
Macerit took quite a while for a BT keyboard to properly work with a damn n900 lol15:30
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Macermy su8w (which worked perfectly on my n800 and n810) didn't work out the box15:31
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: based on what?15:31
Macerand the bug was WONTFIX15:31
Macerhah15:31
Maceri am starting to wonder which bugs were actually FIXED15:31
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, based on averting the stupid security measures nokia is trying to force us to use and N9's crippled functionality (vs N950)15:32
DocScrutinizerindeed there *might* be hope to see hwkbd go to N9 fw from N950, on a future release15:33
DocScrutinizers/hwkbd/hwkbd *support*/15:33
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: indeed there *might* be hope to see hwkbd *support* go to N9 fw from N950, on a future release15:33
DocScrutinizeras allegedly BT kbds work on N950 (what an irony)15:34
psycho_oreosits one of the cool things when you're one of the chosen devs to get N95015:34
MacerDocScrutinizer: why does that matter if there are only 1K N9s and no N950s?15:35
DocScrutinizerbtw with N9 not supporting the basic hwkbd infra I'd expect USB kbds also to fail, if ever we get hostmode15:35
MacerDocScrutinizer: you won't... N9s and N950s are dead coming out the gate... you should be thankful you were blessed with an n950... collectors item15:36
psycho_oreoshahahaha15:36
DocScrutinizerI'm not a collector15:36
Maceri didn't say you were15:36
psycho_oreosN9 = severely crippled, so much so that it'll soon need to be placed in a wheelchair15:36
Maceri am just saying what it is :)15:37
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Macerpsycho_oreos: the N9 was released as something designed to fail15:37
Macerprobably to justify abandoning meego and using winmob while they secretly work on making a symbian worthwhile for the masses15:37
psycho_oreosMacer, ironically nokia continues to tantalise people. Have a look for white N915:37
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Macerwow15:39
MacerN9 on amazon?15:39
DocScrutinizerMacer: and I'm just explaining how much I feel blessed15:39
Macer$700?! are these people high?15:39
MacerDocScrutinizer: i see :)15:39
Maceri would get one but not for that much15:39
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: how long does n950 last on battery15:40
jacekowskion single charge15:40
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: NFC15:40
jacekowskiyou have one?15:41
SpeedEviljacekowski: It depends.15:41
SpeedEviljacekowski: From a week, to 4 hours.15:41
jacekowskiis it possible to get 3 days out of it15:41
SpeedEvil(gof2)15:41
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yes. And I actually inserted a SIM and took it out... for ~6h15:41
jacekowskiwith few phone calls15:41
SpeedEviljacekowski: easily15:41
jacekowskilooking at map few times15:41
SpeedEviljacekowski: battery life is in general better than n900.15:41
jacekowskiand some interwebs15:41
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: since then it basically never left the charger15:41
DocScrutinizerwait, not true, I used it even on SIM on that local test GSM net at chaos camp15:42
DocScrutinizerperformed quite nicely there15:42
jacekowskihmm, does it have that 2 processor design as well15:42
jacekowskiwith cellmo and app processor?15:43
DocScrutinizersure15:43
DocScrutinizerit's basically "identical" to N900, arch wise15:43
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DocScrutinizerwell, there are some significant diffs in audio hw it seems15:44
DocScrutinizerthough I can't tell for sure - no schematics :-S15:45
DocScrutinizerthat'S btw the reason I need a N9 for hostmode R&D15:45
jack_ltis there a keybd shortcut to switch standby on/ off?15:46
DocScrutinizero.O15:46
jack_ltinstead of using that knob on the side of  a n90015:46
DocScrutinizerno15:46
jack_lthm ok15:46
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psycho_oreosjack_lt, though if you press the power button twice it can turn the screen off however15:46
DocScrutinizerunless you accept a dbus-send cmd in xterm as a "shortcut"15:47
jack_ltI accept it for this time ... :)15:47
DocScrutinizersee phonecontrol on wiki15:47
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Lock_screen_and_keys15:48
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Zoupis there any debian image to "flash" on n900?15:58
psycho_oreosno16:00
NIN101elektranox.org/n900/installation/index.html or use debootstrap http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap16:00
Sicelo;) i was just about to say contact NIN101 :P16:00
NIN101heh16:01
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NIN101debootstrap of course only installs a base system by default, no gui, no kernel etc. and the resulting debian requires some configuration to be more or less useable.16:10
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jack_ltDocScrutinizer, unlock seems to be hard cause the n900 doesn't accept input when logging it via the switch16:14
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jonwilbah, icd2 is a mess16:27
jonwilunderstanding how it works is nigh-impossible16:27
SpeedEvil:/16:27
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jonwilLets start by seeing what packages depend on it16:29
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jonwilhmmm, I think I can figure out bits of what I wanted16:33
jonwildbus seems to be the only hard part to ID :(16:33
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jonwilactually, it doesn't seem as hard as I thought, not if I can find the right bits in the (rather comprehensive) icd2 documentation package :)16:37
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LaoLang_coolHow to search a app via apt-get? I've tried to man apt-get, but find that no man pages installed...16:50
Siceloapt-cache search16:51
LaoLang_coolSicelo: I try to apt-cache search man to search pkg for man page, but lots of output produced...16:52
LaoLang_coolI want to install a man page for commands in OS16:53
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Siceloi think u want man-db-n90016:54
DocScrutinizerjack_lt: sorry?16:55
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DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# apt-cache policy man-db-n90016:57
DocScrutinizerman-db-n900:16:57
DocScrutinizer  Installed: 2.5.1-3maemo616:57
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LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: Sicelo thank you!17:08
LaoLang_coolHow to set the env in ash? when I try to use man, it warns: pager: applet not found17:10
LaoLang_coolI guess that's because no $PAGER is defined17:10
LaoLang_coolBut no `export` command here...17:10
LaoLang_cooland no setenv cmd too..17:10
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SpeedEvilI don't think there are manpages17:13
psycho_oreosyou can get bash17:13
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LaoLang_coolpsycho_oreos: Why ash can't?...17:14
LaoLang_coolSpeedEvil: I've installed man-db-n90017:14
SpeedEvilah17:14
SpeedEvilIn the profile - set RAGER=foo ?17:15
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DocScrutinizerLaoLang_cool: apt-get install less17:16
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: I've more...17:16
LaoLang_coolmore is enough17:16
LaoLang_coolOr manpage has to use less as pager in n900?17:16
psycho_oreosLaoLang_cool, I don't know. I hardly use ash myself17:17
DocScrutinizerwell, then I guess a `PAGER=/bin/more man man` shall work17:17
DocScrutinizerand I would be surprised to learn busybox had no export17:17
psycho_oreosbusybox-power ftw17:18
DocScrutinizer(well, not really surprised, I mean it's messybox after all. nevertheless...)17:18
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: eeew17:18
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, it has fdisk built-in for busybox-power :D17:18
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: you're right, it works, thank you17:18
psycho_oreosI'll use that any day over sfdisk personally17:19
LaoLang_coolHow to set the env var in ash?17:19
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos:17:19
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# cfdisk -v17:19
DocScrutinizercfdisk 2.12r17:19
jacekowskijacekowski:~# cfdisk -v17:20
jacekowskicfdisk (util-linux-ng 2.17.2)17:20
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DocScrutinizerLaoLang_cool:17:21
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# help17:21
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, lol I have cfdisk as well but I much prefer fdisk :D17:21
DocScrutinizerBuilt-in commands:17:21
DocScrutinizer        exit export false fg hash help jobs kill let local pwd read readonly17:21
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LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: thanks! I'm surprised that <tab> can't complete the built-in cmd17:22
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DocScrutinizer~messybox17:23
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils17:23
psycho_oreoswait, ok I lied I don't have cfdisk installed on N900 but meh fdisk is plenty17:23
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: I got it, thank you!17:24
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: I'd not trust messybox fdisk to even just read out a partition table17:26
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, didn't know your utter hatred for messybox was that deep :)17:27
DocScrutinizerand particularly fdisk and friends I insist in hte original, latest version17:27
DocScrutinizeryou'd not trust in cheap china fleabay parachutes, would you?17:28
psycho_oreosI wouldn't think messybox is comparable to cheap chinese fleabay parachutes :)17:29
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SpeedEvilBusybox has been found by the state of california to cause cancer in rats.17:29
DocScrutinizerhehehe17:30
DocScrutinizeractually I'd suspect busybox been invented by poettering17:31
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rlyI lost all my 'Catalogs'. How can I get them back?17:35
Phlogistiquerly: what do you mean "lost"17:38
ShadowJKwhat's catalogs?17:39
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rlyPhlogistique: after a reboot they were not lost anymore.17:40
SpeedEvilham17:40
rlyThe Debian equivalent is a repo.17:40
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chem|strly: the debian equivalent is sources17:41
chem|strly: and we are on debian... if you are talking about m517:42
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: according to the filename yes. And hi!17:42
chem|stDocScrutinizer: hey17:43
chem|stDocScrutinizer: repo is just what it is called, in all apt envies it is sources...17:44
DocScrutinizer:nod:17:45
DocScrutinizerand HAM calls them catalog17:45
rlySo, anyway, I installed bootscreen, but I don't get some fancy 3d animation.17:46
chem|stcatalogs in terms of m5 is repo added to sources where "catalogs" are available, not all files in a repo are shown in ham so it si a "catalog" view of tagged programs which are available in $source17:46
rlyI still get the annoying Nokia startup sound.17:46
rlyThe tie ta do ta ti ta.17:47
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chem|stseems a bit like mail-order to me ;)17:48
DocScrutinizer~tell rly about jrtools17:48
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rlyI want to do this, but I don't see the bootscreen applet anywhere. http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/02/21/bootscreen-lets-you-change-the-n900-boot-video-with-one-click/17:52
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rlyI can remove the bootscreen package, which suggests that I have it.17:52
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rlyOk, I get it.17:55
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rlyThere is just no icon.17:55
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rlyGreat, then it says 'Error copying file'.18:01
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rlyHow is the video folder called on the file system?18:07
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Sicelo/opt/usr/share/hildon-welcome/media/18:09
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rlyI also find it weird that I don't get the bootscreen app icon.18:11
rlyI started it from the CLI which does work.18:11
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* jonwil wonders if an open source clone of browserd is of value to anyone18:12
rlyjonwil: yes, because browserd sometimes uses 95% CPU.18:12
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rlySicelo: will that also get rid of the startup sound, btw?18:13
jonwilalthough mostly browserd is just a wrapper around browser-eal18:13
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jonwiland browser-eal is open source18:13
jonwilI do have code to an unknown version of browserd which is what I am playing with and comparing to the maemo5 browserd18:14
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rlyWell the fancy start video doesn't work, but it does boot faster now.18:20
rly(and I got rid of the sound \o/ )18:20
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Corsacshouldn't the same method as n900 work? (commenting the right line on the right file)18:23
Corsachmhm wait, this is on n90018:24
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rlyIs there a stock market app?18:56
NIN101rly: sometimes it might be helpful to search: 1. maemo.org 2. talk.maemo.org 3. Google18:59
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rlyNIN101: I already am installing an app.19:01
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rlyNIN101: Google can only tell you something exists, not how good it is.19:01
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nid0you did ask if a stock market app exists though, not how good stockthis is19:02
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NIN101not true apparently. it can also link to reviews and opinions19:03
NIN101helpful to draw your conclusion.19:04
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RST38bisHelo gentlemen19:23
RST38bisNokia Update Tool offers to update my N900 to 21.2011.38.1. Should I???19:23
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HyperSnyperisnt cssu a better option fo rthe fixes ?19:24
Corsacthis is the diginotar update, isn't it?19:24
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SpeedEvilyes19:24
SpeedEvildiginotar--19:24
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CorsacRST38bis: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12448 and https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12378 in case19:25
povbot`Bug 12448: Blacklisted certificates are shown as trusted roots in the certificates applet19:25
povbot`Bug 12378: Remove diginotar and comodo certificates19:25
RST38bisBut I already updated via apt-get upgrade19:26
RST38bisSo, why is it still offering it to me?19:26
Corsacand http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7940019:26
Corsacno idea19:26
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celestehMaemo lives!19:40
nid0it does?19:41
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celestehMy application manager on my n900 says there's an update.19:42
nid0all it does is remove a couple of root certs19:42
celestehBut it did come out on the day of the dead....19:42
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celestehOh, alas. I was filled with false hope.19:43
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ale152hello!19:58
ale152hello!19:58
SpeedEvil!19:59
ale152some time ago I set something in a config file to avoid auto-updates of my n90019:59
ale152now it's about 1 month i can't see new updates19:59
ale152is there something wrong?19:59
ale152*broken20:00
SpeedEvilThere have been relatively few updates.20:00
ale152less then in the last 4-5 months?20:03
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SpeedEvilyes20:04
ale152mmm20:04
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ale152i read about a new fw update20:04
SpeedEvilThough there has very recently been a system software update.20:04
SpeedEvil(to remove the diginotar certs)20:04
ale152should i see it in the available updates?20:04
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ale152this is the only new update?20:04
SpeedEvilmaybe - have you explicitly updated in HAM?20:05
SpeedEvil'refresh'20:05
ale152"With a size of 191 MB, features and performance improvements, updated applications and increased stability"20:06
ale152is it true?20:06
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SpeedEvilWhat is uyour current version?20:07
Siceloheh, 191 MB :P20:07
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SpeedEvilNot if you're on the current version.20:07
SpeedEvilThe update is 300k20:07
ale152:(20:08
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ale152is there any official changelog, somewhere?20:08
Sicelojust certificate stuff. see /topic, esp a post by jonwil20:09
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trumeeguys, i want to install multiboot-kernel-power. apt-get is insisting to upgrade my kernel-power v47 to v48 which i dont want. Is there a way to pin the kernel to v47?22:55
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Siceloyes22:56
Siceloapt-get install kernel-power=<version here>22:57
trumeeSicelo: http://pastebin.com/fnGfKhCJ22:57
* Sicelo used that to downgrade from v48 to v4722:57
trumeeSicelo: i tried pinning the kernel-power to v47, but apt-get is fetching the bfs kernel for me22:58
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trumeeany debmasters around?23:00
Siceloapt-get install kernel-power=2.6.28-10power4723:00
Sicelono pinning needed23:00
trumeeI already have v47 installed. I want to install multiboot-kernel-power23:01
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Sicelooh. didn't understand u. sorry23:02
trumeeBut multiboot-kernel-power is trying to upgrade me to v48 which i dont want23:02
* DocScrutinizer ponders setting an autokick on "multiboot"23:02
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* trumee understands multiboot is ugly, but necessary to try out nitdroid23:04
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: are you with KP-v48?23:15
DocScrutinizerno23:15
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DocScrutinizerLinux t900 2.6.28.10power46 #1 PREEMPT Sun Dec 12 03:11:24 EET 2010 armv7l unknown23:16
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* trumee feels gentoo system of package mgmnt is easier than debians :(23:23
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DocScrutinizermeh23:28
DocScrutinizergentoo also wouldn't explain to you why you can't run multiboot with KP48 built in on a system that has KP4723:29
Siceloheh.. though i'm noob, i doubt that trumee23:29
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Sicelowhat about apt-get install multiboot-kernel-power kernel-power=2.6.28-10power47?23:30
Sicelodoesn't seem to upgrade kernel power my side23:30
DocScrutinizermultiboot is a *monster* and will 100% guarantee to bring you headache when upgrading any of the used kernels - even more that's true for *downgrading* kernels23:30
ShadowJKI thought apt-get was a bad idea for kernels23:30
DocScrutinizer~multiboot23:31
infobotfrom memory, multiboot is at http://www.cantech.net.au/plug/08-1998/287.html23:31
DocScrutinizererr23:31
DocScrutinizer~maemo-multiboot23:31
infobotmethinks maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED23:31
Siceloyes trumee, i'm not advocating multiboot myself, just debian ;)23:32
trumeeSicelo: hmm, i got an error message E: Version '2.6.28-10power47' for 'kernel-power' was not found23:33
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trumeeSicelo: perhaps v47 is in testing which  i dont have enabled23:33
Siceloworks for me. either way, it shouldn't even be trying to download or find that if u are correct saying u already have KP4723:35
Siceloafaict, that is23:35
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trumeeSicelo: even after enabling testing i am getting a E: Version '2.6.28-10power47' for 'kernel-power' was not found23:46
rlyIs 21.2011.38-1 the CSSU version?23:46
Sicelomaybe devel.. i don't rememberer where 47 is... where did u get it.. u said u have 47...23:47
Sicelos/rer/r/23:47
infobotSicelo meant: maybe devel.. i don't remember where 47 is... where did u get it.. u said u have 47...23:47
trumeeSicelo: i have both devel and testing enabled now23:48
rly"Upgrade to PR1.3, Nokia's last official Maemo 5 update. If you're unsure if you have, Settings > About product should show Version beginning with 20.2010.36. "23:48
Sicelorly: no23:48
trumeeSicelo: i must have got v47 from devel23:48
rlySicelo: can I upgrade to CSSU from my version?23:48
Siceloyes rly. u are on the latest23:50
Sicelogosh, my net realy sucks :'(23:51
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trumeeSicelo: seems your command had a typo, should be apt-get -s  install  kernel-power=1:2.6.28-10power4723:52
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Siceloheh, yes.. that's what my XTerm has. sorry23:53
* Sicelo consults man for apt-get -s23:54
rlySicelo: does that delete all my applications?23:55
trumeeSicelo: still not very happy, http://www.pastie.org/280686923:58
trumeeSicelo: seems it wants to remove kernel-power* packages23:58
DocScrutinizertrumee: dang! listen!! IT WON'T WORK LIKe THIS!23:59
Siceloi dunno any further23:59
trumeeDocScrutinizer: why not?23:59
DocScrutinizerwhen multiboot comes with KP48 then you can not install KP4723:59
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DocScrutinizermultiboot has "kernels built in"23:59

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