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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: please make "diginotar" a link to http://www.google.com/search?q=diginotar+hack | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: make "CSSU includes these security fixes" a bold "CSSU already includes these security fixes" | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "As of version 16.8" -> "As of CSSU version 16.8" | 00:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I know it's bad english, but it's needed for proper pidgin | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | "you can update, if you ever" -> "you can update. If you ever" | 00:11 |
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| Macer | hello | 00:52 |
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| HyperSnyper | anyone tried these sticker/protectors for the n900 > http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/192-7121461-2650617?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=n900+sticker&x=0&y=0 | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | I use the viquiti (3M) ones | 00:59 |
| Macer | i cant find a good rubber skin for mine | 01:00 |
| Macer | well.. for mine that is still on its way | 01:00 |
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| ShadowJK | the mugen back door is kinda rubbery | 01:00 |
| Macer | i like the silicon soft rubber skins if i can find one that fits right | 01:00 |
| ShadowJK | kinda hard on a sliding keyboard though :) | 01:01 |
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| Macer | they slide ;) | 01:01 |
| Macer | i will look once i get my n900 | 01:01 |
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| Macer | i got one but you can tell it was a cheap made in china one | 01:02 |
| Macer | that barely fit | 01:02 |
| Macer | it was too big | 01:02 |
| Macer | i mean it workked... i supposed | 01:02 |
| Macer | suppose | 01:02 |
| Macer | but it was obviously not very form fitting. | 01:02 |
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| GuySoft | hey all, - how does one change the e-mail on bugs.maemo.org? I cant find any option in the account prefs | 01:51 |
| andre__ | GuySoft, https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email | 01:53 |
| andre__ | err, changing the email *address* is on https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=account | 01:53 |
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| GuySoft | andre__, thanks, i did not see it had an e-mail field in that page | 02:04 |
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| andre__ | np | 02:04 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/27/sony_ericsson/ | 12:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to unmount /home - how do I do it? | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | (I want to wipe it before returning to nokia) | 12:56 |
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| ruskie | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/whateverdevicefile | 12:58 |
| ruskie | should wipe it | 12:58 |
| ruskie | even if it's still mounted ;) | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: osso-mmc-umount.sh ? | 12:58 |
| ruskie | or urandom if you consider there will be enough randomness for that | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: yes, ideally I'd like to do it gently. | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 12:59 |
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| woldrich | is there some way I can get my google+ contacts integrated in the contacts thingy? | 13:01 |
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| Timbo | Does anybody know if there is a way to skip the date/time/language setting screen you get on the N900 when you remove the battery? | 15:04 |
| Timbo | more specifically, without using the touchscreen | 15:04 |
| Timbo | since mine is broken | 15:04 |
| Timbo | I want to back it up, but it won't boot past that screen so it's effectively bricked | 15:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | Timbo: As far as I know, no. | 15:07 |
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| Timbo | very annoying | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Technically, possibly. | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | You could boot a kernel with appropruate flags to run a filesystem on the SD | 15:08 |
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| Sicelo | had BackupMenu? | 15:10 |
| Timbo | no :( | 15:10 |
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| Timbo | I'll probably try and get a second hand n900 and swap the logic board out | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm sure a killall <whatever> will fix the issue | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno what's <whatever> though | 15:11 |
| Timbo | it's not booting past the initial settings screen | 15:12 |
| Timbo | so I can't killall | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ohwell | 15:12 |
| Timbo | if it was booting there would be no problem as I could just ssh into it | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what did you hope for, to interact with the system, then? | 15:12 |
| Sicelo | the stuff u want to backup is in your MyDocs? if so, try connecting it via usb while switched of | 15:13 |
| Sicelo | *off | 15:13 |
| Timbo | I was hoping there would be a key combination or something to skip the settings screen | 15:13 |
| Timbo | well, the whole file system ideally | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Timbo: you can use the flasher to boot a kernel. | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah 950 | 15:13 |
| Timbo | but yeah, I haven't tried usb | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | err 900 | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 15:14 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders if there is anything else I need to wipe on this n900. | 15:14 | |
| SpeedEvil | Aha - swap. | 15:14 |
| Timbo | SpeedEvil: ok, I'll look into that | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Timbo: It's possible to boot a meego image from that on the SD | 15:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm not sure how to do this though - I've not done it. | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Timbo: use http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75369 | 15:15 |
| Timbo | DocScrutinizer: thatnks | 15:16 |
| Timbo | -t | 15:16 |
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| * jonwil wishes accessing network/cell/etc info was as easy on Fremantle as it was on Harmattan :( | 15:16 | |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - mydocs, home, swap scrubbed. | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | And envelope prepared. I guess time to pack this up and send it off. | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Leaving me only my backup n900. | 15:17 |
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| Timbo | selling it? | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Warranty return. | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The USB port fell off. | 15:18 |
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| Timbo | ah | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | And now it seems to be doing something wierd with the touchscreen. | 15:18 |
| jonwil | hopefully you dont end up with a piece of junk replacement phone instead of your N900... | 15:20 |
| Timbo | yeah | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: don't forget to add a letter with 72pt notice "only repairs or replacements by another *LINUX* phone accepted!" | 15:20 |
| Timbo | a guy I know returned his and got an N9 | 15:21 |
| Timbo | twice | 15:21 |
| Timbo | eventually got it replaced but it took months | 15:21 |
| jonwil | whats wrong with a N9? | 15:21 |
| jonwil | N8 on the other hand... | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | N9?? | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | not N8? | 15:21 |
| Timbo | actually maybe an N8 | 15:22 |
| ZogG | flexibale phone from nokia is cool =) | 15:22 |
| Timbo | tbh I don't remember | 15:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | usually they try to give a a good-N8 phone | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ a / you / | 15:22 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: usually they try to give you a good-N8 phone | 15:22 |
| jonwil | hmmm, interesting, Nokia is releasing a PR1.3.1 for the N900 | 15:22 |
| ZogG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xL7ASARTlJI#! | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: boring | 15:23 |
| Timbo | nokia are killing themselves :( | 15:23 |
| jonwil | It sounds like its just a new set of root certificates to revoke the compromised certificates from DigiNotar | 15:23 |
| jaska | i'll need to specify that i want linux phone with keyboard if mine breaks then :D | 15:23 |
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| ruskie | jonwil, so basically something one can do on their own | 15:24 |
| ruskie | someone actually got their money back because nokia couldn't replace their n900 with another n900 | 15:25 |
| jonwil | It also says it has a "a fixed security control panel applet." whatever that means | 15:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I asked MohammadAG and it seems it's actually the certificate manager settings-plugin, that's fixed to not show blacklisted certs as trusted | 15:27 |
| jonwil | ok | 15:28 |
| jonwil | ok, sounds like an important fix then | 15:28 |
| jonwil | Is that applet closed or open? | 15:28 |
| jonwil | I know the certificate manager is open somewhere | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | applet? plugin | 15:28 |
| jonwil | but I dont know about the plugin | 15:29 |
| jonwil | it says "applet" in the mailing list post I got :) | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno either, but it seems we plan to port it to CSSU as soon as the source gets published, so I think it's supposed to be/become open | 15:30 |
| jonwil | I get the impression that CSSU can redistribute it, not that these plugins will be open | 15:30 |
| jonwil | Either way, its good to see Nokia releasing a security update for this major issue | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I dunno if the settings' sub-menus qualify for "applet" | 15:31 |
| jonwil | You dont see other vendors fixing it on their obsolete devices :) | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are other major security issues that are not seeing any fix from Nokia - buzzword adobe flash | 15:33 |
| Timbo | are there any other linux based phones with a hardware keyboard? | 15:33 |
| Timbo | now or in the future | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Timbo: not any generally available ones, no | 15:33 |
| Timbo | is the n950 going to see the light of day? | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | oops, from Nokia, that is | 15:34 |
| jonwil | The N950 will never be released for general consumption no | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Timbo: not for sale | 15:34 |
| Timbo | boo | 15:34 |
| Timbo | looks nice | 15:34 |
| jonwil | I think a GTA04 with a hardware keyboard would be the ultimate in "open phones" | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | GTA04 has major problem of too tight link to GTA02 | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | poor case, nearly unavailable LCM | 15:36 |
| jonwil | whats LCM? | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | LCD Module | 15:36 |
| jonwil | oh ok | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I expect GTA04 hw/EE maturity level to be similar to GTA01 | 15:38 |
| Timbo | sadly looks like my next phone won't be a nokia | 15:38 |
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| Timbo | which will be odd, having never owned a different brand of phone | 15:39 |
| Timbo | not through any sort of irrational loyalty | 15:39 |
| Timbo | just because they've made the best solution at the time | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | (GTA04) if they'd not be that locked-in-focused on OM GTA02, they might have opted to get eten M800 for LCM, case, kbd(!) etc | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | GTA04 inside a M800 case would actually meet some of my requirements for an up-to-date phone | 15:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though the hw kbd is incredibly abysmally bad | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | worst hw kbd I ever touched | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | all keycaps are plane and in one level, with no gap or rim or anything separating them | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it hard to even visually tell apart one keycap from the other, at night with kbd backlight on it's almost impossible | 15:46 |
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| Timbo | I had a shot on my brother's Galaxy S2 | 15:48 |
| Timbo | the software keyboard was actually surprisingly good | 15:48 |
| Timbo | and I've always hated them | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?tbm=isch&hl=de&source=hp&q=eten+glofiish+m800&gbv=1&oq=eten+glo&aq=4S&aqi=g3g-S7&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2432l6841l0l11453l10l10l1l2l3l0l311l1484l0.3.3.1l7l0 | 15:49 |
| Timbo | unfortunately it takes up 75% of the screen in landscape | 15:49 |
| Timbo | so it sort of defeats the point | 15:49 |
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| Timbo | my old nokia E70 had the best mobile keyboard I've ever used | 15:49 |
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| jonwil | I got family that just bought a Galaxy S II | 15:56 |
| jonwil | to replace a dodgy/faulty HTC Desire :) | 15:56 |
| Timbo | quite large | 15:56 |
| Timbo | but very shiny | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I should do that. I can't face fighting about it initially. If I get a phone which is saleable for a price to buy a device in good condition, I'm OK. | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 15:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but better get a new one from Nokia directly, and also teach them to treat their customers "correctly" | 15:59 |
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| jabis | N9 vkb takes too much space in landscape mode, in the messaging screens - have to rotate around to see what the peeps write and then back again - hope the swype isn't too long away from release | 16:00 |
| jabis | also bluetooth kbd's wont work with it - blech | 16:01 |
| * SpeedEvil may open the onvelope, and add a letter. | 16:01 | |
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| Timbo | :D | 16:02 |
| mgedmin | no bt kbd, seriously? | 16:03 |
| jabis | it hooks up but the HID-stuff seems incomplete on N9 | 16:04 |
| jabis | (kbd shows itself as connected but doesn't link to input) | 16:04 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 16:05 | |
| * SpeedEvil stabs. | 16:05 | |
| jabis | what's up Speedo? | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I just find the concept of a phone that doesn't work with a bluetooth keyboard so retarded. | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Also somewhat annoyed about the whole 'My usb connector fell off' thing. | 16:07 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: Apps and websites that use the Google Maps API will soon have to pay $4 per 1,000 visitors Google announced today | 16:08 |
| RST38h | Bye bye Mappero, Maep, etc | 16:08 |
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| jabis | I guess the factor was more getting the sucker out fast, than fix the hid-stuff *sigh* | 16:08 |
| mgedmin | long live openstreetmap, rather | 16:09 |
| * mgedmin hasn't been using maep/mappero with google's maps for a while already | 16:10 | |
| jabis | RST, damn - I've to take my testing maps out of commission then - not gonna pay for that :/ | 16:10 |
| jabis | I was developing a route planner & travelblog-shiz for mobile with gmaps | 16:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | Openstreetmap has major capacity issues. | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | The servers are basically maxed out, and designed for mappers only. | 16:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | Any significant user of the servers risks getting banninnated. | 16:13 |
| mgedmin | hm, point... | 16:13 |
| Veggen | SpeedEvil: but you can't take google and cache your own tileset and get around the limit, can you? | 16:14 |
| Veggen | (legally) | 16:14 |
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| Veggen | btw: Yes to more porn on OpenStreetmap. | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just wonder how they sum up the 1000 visitors are using same app | 16:16 |
| Veggen | (porn has always been a driver for more capacity on Internet...) | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and if you could just randomize whatever they use to identify the app | 16:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | Veggen: no, youc an't do it legally. | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | (btw this move seems to indicate google actually failed and finally gave up on making money by placing ads to their google maps API) | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Veggen: the T+Cs forbid caching from google | 16:18 |
| Veggen | SpeedEvil: ok, that was what I meant. You can do it with OSM and get around the capacity problems. | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | which you may or may not regret | 16:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Veggen: Not really. | 16:18 |
| Veggen | (at least you can generate your same timles) | 16:18 |
| Veggen | eh, tiles. | 16:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Veggen: yes - generating tiles fixes it. | 16:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The problem for OSM is users caching large areas for use when they're in an area. | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially to deep zooms. | 16:21 |
| kurtis | whats the latest software available for n900? | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | kurtis: What do you ean by that? | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | PR1.3 is the latest major update. | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | There is soon to be a monor patch pushed out to fix the diginotar thing. | 16:23 |
| Veggen | SpeedEvil: mmm, yes. OSM needs a rich uncle that doesn't mind people downloading some tiles and have the bandwidth for it. | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | The problem is the servers are at the moment at a uni, so they can't have commercial sponsorship to do more bandwidth. | 16:24 |
| Veggen | I know most of those things. I'm an OSMer as well :) | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 16:25 |
| * SpeedEvil is operating on reflex at the moment - exhausted after cutting the hedge. | 16:25 | |
| SpeedEvil | And hammering branches to bend them | 16:25 |
| Veggen | (my idea of spare-time-fun is taking my GPS on a walk in the mountains and track a new path. Last years, I've been doing mainly hiking stuff. | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 16:26 |
| kurtis | speed is there anyway in which i can install pr 1.3 using my device? | 16:29 |
| SpeedEvil | You can reflash, or over-the-air update. | 16:30 |
| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: They use API key which you can generate as an registered user, I think. So they will probably require fees depending on that depending on that | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | What does settings -> about product say about the version | 16:30 |
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| kurtis | 3.2010.02-8 | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 16:33 |
| infobot | well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 16:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 16:36 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if the opera update was also for diginotar. | 16:36 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | plausible, but I guess they have a changelog somewhere? | 16:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unix/ | 16:43 |
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| jonwil | Anyone know of a reason a SIM card would have a list of network IDs on it? | 16:46 |
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| kurtis | #harmattan | 16:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe also interesting: http://www.opera.com/docs/ca/ | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: roaming | 16:49 |
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| jonwil | Seems that the list of IDs is what get_service_provider_info returns | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: OSM sucks moose balls though | 16:56 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: I guess it is Yandex Maps for me now | 16:56 |
| mgedmin | wow, they even map moose! | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | that is now what they do with moose. | 16:58 |
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| jonwil | bah, I found the information for the cellmo call that is behind get_service_provider_info | 17:02 |
| jonwil | but I cant find any info on the format of the returned values | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | CountryCode, NetworkCode, <string>longname, <string>shortname ? | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I completely made up this, based on semi-educated guess | 17:05 |
| jonwil | nope, its a set of bytes | 17:05 |
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| jonwil | I have 4 bytes of data from it | 17:08 |
| jonwil | from someone who responded to my list posting | 17:08 |
| jonwil | anyone heard of a mobile company called elisa or one called Saunalahti? | 17:09 |
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| jonwil | aha, both seem to be .fi | 17:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - now I can run the script. | 17:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Where is it again - if more data would be helpful. | 17:10 |
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| jaska | saunalahti is part of elisa these days | 17:11 |
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| _berto_ | jaska: is it? | 17:11 |
| jonwil | SpeedEvil, which carrier are you with? | 17:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | '3' in the UK | 17:12 |
| _berto_ | jaska: but they maintain different branding etc | 17:12 |
| jonwil | ok, dont know how useful more data would be | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 17:12 |
| jonwil | I only really need data from anyone who is roaming on a network other than their home network. | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 17:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Then that's not going to work. | 17:13 |
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| jonwil | Bah, I cant understand what these 4 bytes could mean | 17:17 |
| jonwil | The bytes I have are 66,244,80,0 | 17:17 |
| kerio | 66 + 244 > 80 + 0 | 17:17 |
| kerio | omg, it works | 17:17 |
| jonwil | hmmm, 244 seems to be the MCC for .fi | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya | 17:19 |
| jonwil | That doesnt explain the 66 or the 80 | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | 66 might be some NC | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | 80 as well | 17:19 |
| jonwil | No sign of a 66 or an 80 operator code for finland | 17:21 |
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| jonwil | I wonder which of the specs is the one that covers the information stored on the USIM | 17:22 |
| jonwil | reading the UMTS specs might tell me more about what I am looking at | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | are they related to what netmon says? | 17:23 |
| jonwil | dont think so | 17:24 |
| jonwil | let me check netmon source | 17:24 |
| jonwil | ugh, Phython :P | 17:26 |
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| jonwil | Doesnt help me anyway, doesnt appear to be using Phone.SIM for anything | 17:26 |
| jonwil | ofono doesn't handle this particular cellmo message either | 17:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, seems I'm out of ideas, esp since I have no clue how to duplicate the whole thing here | 17:32 |
| jonwil | I am thinking of producing a libconnui-dev package to document such functions and structures in libconnui as I am able to document | 17:32 |
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| jonwil | none of my x86 tricks are going to help me here :( | 17:34 |
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| * jonwil wishes he had an easy to write (and run) fragments of ARM ASM | 17:39 | |
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| * jonwil wonders if he is the only one interested in a libconnui-dev package... | 17:46 | |
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| edheldil | jonwil: you can also document it on the wiki somewhere :) | 17:48 |
| * jonwil sucks at writing usable documentation | 17:49 | |
| edheldil | Is it a possible way to a Sim Toolkit? | 17:49 |
| jonwil | nope, sim toolkit features are much lower level than libconnui | 17:49 |
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| jonwil | probably would need to change cellmo firmware to do it | 17:49 |
| jonwil | i.e. not going to happen | 17:49 |
| edheldil | ok | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | we'd get flash-12 rsther than any STK | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | aka SAT | 17:51 |
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| edheldil | eh, what's flash-12 rsther? | 17:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | rather* | 17:51 |
| edheldil | eek, got it | 17:51 |
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| jonwil | bah, I dont know the right linker arguments to get it to link to libconnui.so.0 | 17:56 |
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| jonwil | bah, the more I stare at this ARM ASM, the more I an convinced that I am not going to get anywhere without either some code/info or some help from an ARM guru :( | 18:11 |
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| timeless | http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support is amsuing | 21:49 |
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| timeless | s/msu/mus/ | 21:50 |
| timeless | s/msu/mus/ | 21:50 |
| infobot | timeless meant: http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support is amusing | 21:50 |
| infobot | timeless meant: http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support is amusing | 21:50 |
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| dzho | unfortunate colors | 21:52 |
| dzho | the red and orange are hard to distinguish here | 21:52 |
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| dzho | not seeing the HTC Dream/G2 | 21:54 |
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| timeless | they're not uncommon colors, but yeah, it does blend a bit | 21:58 |
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| timeless | it'd be amusing for someone to do this for nokia phones :) | 21:58 |
| dzho | for values of "amusing" == "sad" | 21:59 |
| timeless | nah, "considerably more depressing" | 22:00 |
| timeless | (best guess anyway) | 22:00 |
| dzho | OTOH, I suppose you could say that the phones have the latest releases | 22:00 |
| timeless | disclaimer: i now work for a competitor | 22:00 |
| timeless | nope | 22:00 |
| timeless | the worst example is that if you ask people who worked for nokia on maemo | 22:00 |
| timeless | they could tell you that the latest software was *never* released :) | 22:00 |
| dzho | yes, hence my use of the term "releases" | 22:01 |
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| dzho | it's easy to be up on the latest release if there *are* no later releases | 22:01 |
| dzho | that is not a good thing, just shifts the bad to another category | 22:01 |
| timeless | well, for one off platforms, it's an interesting grading scale | 22:02 |
| timeless | i think the right approach is to map maemo 1..6 | 22:02 |
| timeless | and all maemo hardware devices | 22:02 |
| timeless | so the nokia 770 not running maemo 6 (aka meego harmattan) | 22:02 |
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| * timeless tries updating the (windows) desktop software for a phone | 22:05 | |
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| ShadowJK | symbian phones also interesting, where some nokia phones running "same version" of os are still treated as all different platforms when nokia makes an app | 22:14 |
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| ErwinJunge | ~seen javispedro | 22:26 |
| infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 19h 53m 49s ago, saying: 'or $800..'. | 22:27 |
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| jesuschrist | hi guya | 23:17 |
| jesuschrist | guys | 23:17 |
| jesuschrist | any european here with a n9 ? | 23:19 |
| petteri | yes | 23:19 |
| jesuschrist | you petteri ? | 23:20 |
| petteri | ? | 23:20 |
| jesuschrist | do you have a n9 ? | 23:20 |
| petteri | just said yes to your question | 23:20 |
| jesuschrist | how much you paid if i might ask | 23:20 |
| petteri | 599 | 23:20 |
| petteri | € | 23:21 |
| jesuschrist | 16 gb | 23:21 |
| jesuschrist | ? | 23:21 |
| petteri | yes | 23:21 |
| jesuschrist | its a lot :( | 23:21 |
| petteri | depends | 23:21 |
| jesuschrist | ofc, its a lot for me | 23:21 |
| timeless | you could pay less and get a slightly weaker windows phone from nokia :) | 23:21 |
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| jesuschrist | i could just pay a hobo 50 bucks to kick me in the nuts | 23:22 |
| timeless | the lumia (spanish for hooker?) was just announced | 23:22 |
| jesuschrist | could save 449 euro | 23:22 |
| timeless | it's cheaper, and has slightly less screen realestate | 23:22 |
| jesuschrist | im considering getting a n9 from singapore | 23:22 |
| jesuschrist | comes without warranty | 23:22 |
| timeless | well, you seemed to be somewhat interested in top of the line phones | 23:22 |
| timeless | offering you a 1$ phone would have been rude :) | 23:23 |
| * timeless is using a Torch 9810 | 23:23 | |
| jesuschrist | win7phone isnt that bad | 23:23 |
| timeless | which seems to run around 435usd if google product search is trustworthy | 23:24 |
| jesuschrist | usa? | 23:24 |
| timeless | well, i'm in Canada | 23:24 |
| timeless | and i was given the phone | 23:24 |
| jesuschrist | same for me, i want to buy one in europe because of the warranty | 23:24 |
| * timeless boggles | 23:24 | |
| jesuschrist | otherwise could get a singapore n9 for 580 usd | 23:25 |
| timeless | so.. some companies have global warranties | 23:25 |
| * timeless can't remember what nokia's policy was | 23:25 | |
| jesuschrist | not nokia it seems | 23:25 |
| timeless | Asus had global warranties for everything except the eeepc line | 23:25 |
| jesuschrist | so does dell | 23:26 |
| timeless | note that nokia's warranty behavior is "amusing" | 23:26 |
| jesuschrist | and apple | 23:26 |
| timeless | there was a rumor that n900s were being offered e7 (?)s as warranty replacements recently | 23:26 |
| * timeless isn't sure if it's true | 23:26 | |
| NIN101 | either N8 or E7. | 23:26 |
| jesuschrist | do you still sell n900 ? | 23:26 |
| timeless | ? | 23:26 |
| jesuschrist | ahem s/you/nokia | 23:27 |
| timeless | my n900 is still my personal phone | 23:27 |
| timeless | although i've been offered a curve to use | 23:27 |
| timeless | which i will when it arrives | 23:27 |
| jesuschrist | forgive my sed dude | 23:27 |
| timeless | i don't think you can buy the n900 from nokia anymore | 23:27 |
| timeless | in fact, i don't think it's been available from nokia for a while now | 23:27 |
| jesuschrist | anyway what will you do timeless if you were in my pants | 23:27 |
| timeless | dunno | 23:28 |
| timeless | how much loyalty do you have to nokia | 23:28 |
| timeless | and what are your requirements? | 23:28 |
| jesuschrist | save 100$ and get it without warranty | 23:28 |
| jesuschrist | or viceversa | 23:28 |
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| jesuschrist | i have totally no loyalty to nokia | 23:28 |
| timeless | what will you *do* with your phone? | 23:28 |
| jesuschrist | social networks, photos, music and videos ofcourse | 23:28 |
| Macer | is there a g+ client for maemo? | 23:29 |
| Macer | that would be nice :) | 23:29 |
| jesuschrist | i want facebook myspace and shit | 23:29 |
| Macer | fb integration wasn't too bad | 23:29 |
| Macer | at least you could share photos etc | 23:29 |
| Macer | chat | 23:29 |
| jesuschrist | anyway why does it matter, im just asking about the cash for warranty | 23:29 |
| timeless | jesuschrist: i presume you don't want a hardware keyboard | 23:29 |
| jesuschrist | issue | 23:29 |
| timeless | what do you mean by "photos"? | 23:30 |
| jesuschrist | i want that model | 23:30 |
| jesuschrist | i was joking | 23:30 |
| timeless | do you want them to be fast? | 23:30 |
| Macer | i don't think there was an actual client tho... so you would have to use the web browser | 23:30 |
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| timeless | do you want 100mpix pictures? | 23:30 |
| Macer | timeless: uhm... photos? :) | 23:30 |
| timeless | or is 1mpix ok? | 23:30 |
| Macer | i think that one is pretty self explainatory | 23:30 |
| timeless | do you want a telephoto lense? | 23:30 |
| timeless | Macer: it isn't | 23:30 |
| Macer | er | 23:30 |
| timeless | is a vga image sufficient? | 23:30 |
| Macer | share....... photos? | 23:30 |
| timeless | do you need redeye reduction? | 23:30 |
| sp3000 | 1px oughta be enough for anyone | 23:30 |
| jesuschrist | i dont care about photos, in fact, if there was a n9 witout camera i would buy it | 23:30 |
| Macer | lmao | 23:30 |
| Sicelo | :) | 23:30 |
| timeless | Macer: see! | 23:30 |
| timeless | it was a very important question | 23:31 |
| Macer | if there was an n9 without a qwerty i WOULDN'T buy it... oh wait | 23:31 |
| timeless | jesuschrist: i'm seriously willing to talk you through the process of making a decision | 23:31 |
| timeless | but being flip isn't the way to go if you want that help | 23:31 |
| * Sicelo has taken no more thatn 10 pics on his n900, and zero videos :P | 23:31 | |
| timeless | how much talk time do you really need? | 23:31 |
| timeless | how often / regularly do you charge your phone? | 23:31 |
| timeless | do you plan to travel? if so to which countries/continents/regions? | 23:32 |
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| * timeless took a couple of videos | 23:32 | |
| timeless | almost all of them were accidental :) | 23:32 |
| jesuschrist | i dont plan to travel, i need at least 1 hour per day call time, i charge my actually phone every night | 23:32 |
| Macer | i sent my asus transformer in for RMA | 23:32 |
| Macer | because it had a blob of messed up pixels | 23:32 |
| Macer | who watns to bet it comes back the same way i sent it in? :) | 23:32 |
| timeless | jesuschrist: how long is a day for you? 16 hours? 12 hours? 8 hours? | 23:33 |
| Macer | with a note saying "we couldn't find anything wrong" | 23:33 |
| Sicelo | jesuschrist: timeless is going to get u a BB ;) | 23:33 |
| jesuschrist | anyway timeless i cant see the point, i just asked about the warranty | 23:33 |
| timeless | do you plan to tether something to your phone? | 23:33 |
| Macer | just like nokia with the usb ports | 23:33 |
| Macer | hahah | 23:33 |
| timeless | Sicelo: dunno actually | 23:33 |
| timeless | i'd have to look up our product line and see if any fit | 23:33 |
| Sicelo | j/k timeless ;D | 23:33 |
| jesuschrist | timeless : every night i charge my phone, so lets say 16 hours day | 23:33 |
| timeless | i certainly haven't memorized it :( | 23:33 |
| timeless | jesuschrist: ok | 23:33 |
| timeless | that question is because some phones (the n900) tend to last closer to 12 hours | 23:33 |
| sp3000 | timeless: hey it oughta be easier than for nokia | 23:33 |
| jesuschrist | Sicelo : lol | 23:33 |
| timeless | in certain configurations | 23:34 |
| Macer | an n900 lasts like 6 hours during heavy use :) | 23:34 |
| timeless | sp3000: yeah yeah | 23:34 |
| jesuschrist | and i plan to tether | 23:34 |
| timeless | jesuschrist: ok, do you want to tether by bluetooth or is usb ok? | 23:34 |
| timeless | or do you want to tether as a wifi hotspot? | 23:34 |
| jesuschrist | wow the n900 lasts 12 hours ... | 23:34 |
| * ShadowJK can make his N900 last 1 hour, or 1 week, depending on what he's doing | 23:34 | |
| sp3000 | but then you used to be able to just do four random digits and probably get a hit | 23:34 |
| timeless | jesuschrist: well under 12 really | 23:34 |
| jesuschrist | i would prefer as blutooth | 23:34 |
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| timeless | i think 7-9 is probably a better estimate | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | I seem to be getting closer to 16 with my normal use | 23:34 |
| timeless | the point is that if you want 16, the n900 would be ruled out | 23:34 |
| timeless | at least it might be ruled out | 23:35 |
| timeless | it really depended a lot on how you configured it | 23:35 |
| jesuschrist | the n900 last less than 16 with 3g active right ? | 23:35 |
| Macer | haha | 23:35 |
| timeless | but it was fairly easy to have it die in well under 16 hours | 23:35 |
| Macer | when i wifi tethered my n900 it would drain faster than it could charge | 23:35 |
| Macer | microusb charging ftw | 23:35 |
| timeless | Macer: nice | 23:35 |
| jesuschrist | lol | 23:35 |
| jesuschrist | :( | 23:35 |
| Macer | although ... wifi tethering my G2 .. it charges faster | 23:35 |
| Macer | so i can do it all day long | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | If you have packets moving over 3g, it'll burn through alot of power. All phones will. Though granted, it's easier to install shit on N900 that produce background data activity... | 23:36 |
| Macer | i think it is just n900 fail | 23:36 |
| timeless | yeah, the n900 was awesome in that area | 23:36 |
| jesuschrist | how much does the n9 lasts ? | 23:36 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: well.. minimalist with just gtalk running in the background using telepathy | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | For background data activity over 3g: look at the declared wcdma talk time | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | end users of N9 may want to hang out on N9, rather definitely no OS details chat over there | 23:37 |
| Macer | my n900 would drain faster than charge for wifi tethering | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | #N9 rather | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | wifi hotspot adds a solid 300mA power use, since there's no powersaving possibility in that mode | 23:37 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: :) we can't buy an N9 in the US | 23:37 |
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| Macer | not without paying an outrageous amount for the 100 produced and waiting 3 weeks for it to arrive from overseas | 23:37 |
| jesuschrist | are you a god DocScrutinizer ? | 23:38 |
| jesuschrist | (ghostbusters ;D) | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: on #N9 you *might* find a nice N9 fan in a country where you can buy them, so he sends one to you :-D | 23:38 |
| ShadowJK | Connecting USB adds another 80mA, and the maximum charge rate is 950mA from dumbcharger, HSDPA ranges from 200-800mA depending on signal conditions... | 23:38 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: no thanks | 23:38 |
| Macer | :) | 23:38 |
| Macer | no qwerty.. no buy heh | 23:39 |
| jesuschrist | timeless : have you forgotten me ?:8 | 23:39 |
| timeless | irccloud got stuck | 23:39 |
| Macer | now if you find me an n950.. that i would look into | 23:39 |
| Macer | but then again... n950 has crap hardware already so it is all pointless | 23:39 |
| jesuschrist | define "crap hardware" | 23:40 |
| Macer | n950 probably would run $2000 if you could even find one | 23:40 |
| timeless | the n900 had a bunch of ways to consume more power than the charger could provide | 23:40 |
| Macer | old.. outdated.... obsolete... underpowered.... | 23:40 |
| Macer | aka crap | 23:40 |
| Macer | but the outsides are stronger than most phones :) | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | and amusingly Lumia has even weaker hw :) | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | timeless, but it's pretty hard to sustain it for extensive amount of time, the heat production probably makes the components desolder themselves | 23:41 |
| Macer | my htc vision/tmobile g2... had ok hardware at the time.. but the outside is the cheapest plastic that the chinese could make | 23:41 |
| timeless | shadowjk: yeah, i wonder how they managed that | 23:41 |
| Macer | and that zhinge crap.. wtf? :) | 23:41 |
| Macer | is making a slider really that difficult? | 23:41 |
| timeless | e lumia | 23:41 |
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| Macer | trying to avoid patent suits?? | 23:41 |
| timeless | jc: so.. | 23:41 |
| timeless | what else do you need? | 23:41 |
| timeless | do you use sms? voip (e.g. skype)? | 23:42 |
| timeless | do you require linux? java? | 23:42 |
| timeless | do you need to have true multitasking? | 23:42 |
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| timeless | do you need removable storage? | 23:43 |
| jesuschrist | i use sms, skype | 23:43 |
| jesuschrist | i use java | 23:43 |
| jesuschrist | i would love removable storage but i can live without it | 23:43 |
| timeless | i doubt the n9 has a good java story | 23:43 |
| jesuschrist | im a linux sysop | 23:43 |
| jesuschrist | so i would like linux | 23:43 |
| ShadowJK | timeless, well let's see... they're ditching all existing designs, and moving to a hardware platform that they've never used or designed anything with before, and on top of that, they have to buy it from a company they're directly competing with in some areas while suing the pants off of them too? Yeah, of course it'll be on schedule, and of course they'll get the components in time. :P | 23:43 |
| timeless | the n900 had a rather poor story | 23:43 |
| timeless | shadowjk, :) | 23:43 |
| ShadowJK | Probably worse in N9, atleast on N900 someone could make it as an "app" | 23:44 |
| Macer | lmao | 23:44 |
| Macer | i stopped listening at "sysop" | 23:44 |
| timeless | if you require java, i think your platform choices are symbian, bbos | 23:44 |
| ShadowJK | but on N9 java would probably not pass Ovi "QA" :P | 23:44 |
| timeless | anyone know of palm/winmo have java stories? | 23:44 |
| timeless | fwiw, i'm now chatting using my BlackBerry PlayBook | 23:45 |
| timeless | (and irccloud) | 23:45 |
| Macer | meego wouldn't pass meego QA :-P | 23:46 |
| arnet | I am quite sure that if you use gnu java compiler | 23:47 |
| Macer | if you want linux buy a cheap ass android phone like a G1.. root it and install CM6 on it.. and wifi tether a netbook with the latest ubuntu on it | 23:47 |
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| jesuschrist | would | 23:47 |
| Macer | $300 | 23:47 |
| arnet | and get native arm binaries | 23:47 |
| jesuschrist | the phone work macer? | 23:47 |
| jesuschrist | i mean would be possible to use it as a phone, mmake and recive calls? | 23:48 |
| Macer | for the phone and the netbook | 23:48 |
| arnet | nobody will mind | 23:48 |
| Macer | uhm | 23:48 |
| jesuschrist | anyway no android with such a lovely design exists | 23:48 |
| timeless | actually, if you want a friendly android device | 23:48 |
| Macer | ok. i'm going to ignore now. eithe you are trolling or totally stupid. | 23:48 |
| timeless | iirc one of kindle or nook is the answer | 23:48 |
| timeless | one has a sd slot and will boot unsigned roms | 23:49 |
| jesuschrist | who is the subject ? me macer ? | 23:49 |
| timeless | so you can boot anything in it | 23:49 |
| timeless | i think you're in the same conversation | 23:49 |
| jesuschrist | lol i cant see what generated your hate but whatever, ignore me | 23:49 |
| timeless | but kindle/nook aren't phones | 23:50 |
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| timeless | anyway, you should really consider your answers to my questions | 23:51 |
| timeless | they'll help you make an informed decision | 23:51 |
| Macer | Processed Through Sort Facility | 23:51 |
| Macer | October 27, 2011, 10:43 am | 23:51 |
| Macer | SHENZHEN, CHINA PEOPLES REP | 23:51 |
| jesuschrist | timeless its not about needs, really | 23:52 |
| Macer | wonder how much of a knockoff that is :) | 23:52 |
| jesuschrist | i want the n9 | 23:52 |
| Macer | can't wait to get it haha | 23:52 |
| timeless | also, if you want to do sysop stuff, you /might/ not find the n9 to fit your needs | 23:52 |
| timeless | the n950 was a much better config | 23:52 |
| jesuschrist | yeah it was, anyway i have a nokia e70 now | 23:52 |
| jesuschrist | lol | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah for "sysop" stuff you'd really want a keyboard for starters. And then you probably get pissed off at aegis | 23:52 |
| jesuschrist | anything is better | 23:53 |
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| * timeless nods | 23:53 | |
| jesuschrist | yeah read about aegis, sure is gonna be bypassed soon | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | if e70 had a bit faster cpu so it could run ssh faster... | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | with minimal fontsize you could fit output of "vmstat" on the screen, iirc. | 23:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jesuschrist: aegis can't get "bypassed". You can hope for e.g, MeegoCE | 23:54 |
| jesuschrist | i dont know anything about aegis exept the name | 23:54 |
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| jesuschrist | how is that it cant be bypassed ? | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't expect OVI apps or any native N9 apps to run on MeegoCE though | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | it's in "hardware" | 23:54 |
| timeless | aegis is basically a system that controls privileges | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 23:54 |
| timeless | it mostly prevents apps from having powers that remotely resemble beong root | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | but hmm, are those apps encrypted | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | or anything like that | 23:55 |
| timeless | s/beo/bei/ | 23:55 |
| infobot | timeless meant: it mostly prevents apps from having powers that remotely resemble being root | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: referred to yu as the expert of us both regarding M-Shield etc | 23:55 |
| jesuschrist | including busybox/bash whatever it has the n9 ? | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, with m-shield you can do everything you can imagine | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 23:55 |
| timeless | jesuschrist: have you heard of trusted computing? | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: so question is, what are they doing with it | 23:55 |
| jesuschrist | yeah i had timeless | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | somebody claimed it relies on BB5 | 23:56 |
| *** C-S-B has quit IRC | 23:56 | |
| timeless | aegis is basically nokia's impl | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | which can'T be true at least for xloader | 23:56 |
| timeless | signed bootloader/chain | 23:56 |
| jacekowski | n900 has that | 23:56 |
| jesuschrist | oh lol like symbian certificates | 23:56 |
| jacekowski | signed xloader | 23:56 |
| timeless | well | 23:56 |
| ErwinJunge | Is there a way to run commands on login to scratchbox? | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah but N900 xloader drops the ball | 23:57 |
| timeless | symbian generally let you turn off the block of third party apps | 23:57 |
| ErwinJunge | Specifically, I want to set SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE | 23:57 |
| timeless | the n9 generally doesn't | 23:57 |
| jesuschrist | no the symb 3rd edition my e70 runs :p | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | even on symbian you couldn't get all the privs | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | iirc I couldn't use GPS on my E70, for example | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | without begging someone to sign my app | 23:58 |
| jesuschrist | you bought the gps module for the e70 ? | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | bluetooth gps | 23:58 |
| jesuschrist | oh :p | 23:58 |
| jesuschrist | the e70 sucks big cocks anyway :p | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | I like the formfactor | 23:58 |
| jesuschrist | yeah that was cool | 23:59 |
| timeless | nokia gave us bt gps modules for using the n81 8g :) | 23:59 |
| ShadowJK | now it needs better screen resolution, 1-2g of ram, and 1ghz omap3 or something, and it'd be "updated" :P | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik sybian signing has been hacked though | 23:59 |
| ShadowJK | (and maemo) | 23:59 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: i think it is overpriced for what it is | 23:59 |
| Macer | looks nice tho for being a symbian phone | 23:59 |
| ShadowJK | what is? | 23:59 |
| Macer | i wouldn't mind getting one | 23:59 |
| Macer | the e70 | 23:59 |
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