IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-10-27

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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: please make "diginotar" a link to
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: make "CSSU includes these security fixes" a bold "CSSU already includes these security fixes"00:07
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DocScrutinizer"As of version 16.8" -> "As of CSSU version 16.8"00:08
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DocScrutinizerI know it's bad english, but it's needed for proper pidgin00:09
DocScrutinizer"you can update, if you ever" -> "you can update. If you ever"00:11
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HyperSnyperanyone tried these sticker/protectors for the n900 >
ShadowJKI use the viquiti (3M) ones00:59
Maceri cant find a good rubber skin for mine01:00
Macerwell.. for mine that is still on its way01:00
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ShadowJKthe mugen back door is kinda rubbery01:00
Maceri like the silicon soft rubber skins if i can find one that fits right01:00
ShadowJKkinda hard on a sliding keyboard though :)01:01
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Macerthey slide ;)01:01
Maceri will look once   i get my n90001:01
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Maceri got one but you can tell it was a cheap  made in  china one01:02
Macerthat barely fit01:02
Macerit was too big01:02
Maceri mean it workked... i supposed01:02
Macerbut it was obviously not  very form  fitting.01:02
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GuySofthey all, - how does one change the e-mail on I cant find any option in the account prefs01:51
andre__err, changing the email *address* is on
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GuySoftandre__, thanks, i did not see it had an e-mail field in that page02:04
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jonwilgod this reverse engineering is FUN03:29
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SpeedEvilI want to unmount /home - how do I do it?12:56
SpeedEvil(I want to wipe it before returning to nokia)12:56
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ruskiedd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/whateverdevicefile12:58
ruskieshould wipe it12:58
ruskieeven if it's still mounted ;)12:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ?12:58
ruskieor urandom if you consider there will be enough randomness for that12:58
SpeedEvilruskie: yes, ideally I'd like to do it gently.12:58
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: thanks12:59
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woldrichis there some way I can get my google+ contacts integrated in the contacts thingy?13:01
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TimboDoes anybody know if there is a way to skip the date/time/language setting screen you get on the N900 when you remove the battery?15:04
Timbomore specifically, without using the touchscreen15:04
Timbosince mine is broken15:04
TimboI want to back it up, but it won't boot past that screen so it's effectively bricked15:05
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SpeedEvilTimbo: As far as I know, no.15:07
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Timbovery annoying15:08
SpeedEvilTechnically, possibly.15:08
SpeedEvilYou could boot a kernel with appropruate flags to run a filesystem on the SD15:08
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Sicelohad BackupMenu?15:10
Timbono :(15:10
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TimboI'll probably try and get a second hand n900 and swap the logic board out15:11
DocScrutinizerI'm sure a killall <whatever> will fix the issue15:11
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DocScrutinizerdunno what's <whatever> though15:11
Timboit's not booting past the initial settings screen15:12
Timboso I can't killall15:12
Timboif it was booting there would be no problem as I could just ssh into it15:12
DocScrutinizerso what did you hope for, to interact with the system, then?15:12
Sicelothe stuff u want to backup is in your MyDocs? if so, try connecting it via usb while switched of15:13
TimboI was hoping there would be a key combination or something to skip the settings screen15:13
Timbowell, the whole file system ideally15:13
SpeedEvilTimbo: you can use the flasher to boot a kernel.15:13
DocScrutinizeraaah 95015:13
Timbobut yeah, I haven't tried usb15:13
DocScrutinizererr 90015:13
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕15:14
* SpeedEvil ponders if there is anything else I need to wipe on this n900.15:14
SpeedEvilAha - swap.15:14
TimboSpeedEvil: ok, I'll look into that15:14
SpeedEvilTimbo: It's possible to boot a meego image from that on the SD15:15
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SpeedEvilI'm not sure how to do this though - I've not done it.15:15
DocScrutinizerTimbo: use
TimboDocScrutinizer: thatnks15:16
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* jonwil wishes accessing network/cell/etc info was as easy on Fremantle as it was on Harmattan :(15:16
SpeedEvilOk - mydocs, home, swap scrubbed.15:17
SpeedEvilAnd envelope prepared. I guess time to pack this up and send it off.15:17
SpeedEvilLeaving me only my backup n900.15:17
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Timboselling it?15:17
SpeedEvilWarranty return.15:18
SpeedEvilThe USB port fell off.15:18
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SpeedEvilAnd now it seems to be doing something wierd with the touchscreen.15:18
jonwilhopefully you dont end up with a piece of junk replacement phone instead of your N900...15:20
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: don't forget to add a letter with 72pt notice "only repairs or replacements by another *LINUX* phone accepted!"15:20
Timboa guy I know returned his and got an N915:21
Timboeventually got it replaced but it took months15:21
jonwilwhats wrong with a N9?15:21
jonwilN8 on the other hand...15:21
DocScrutinizernot N8?15:21
Timboactually maybe an N815:22
ZogGflexibale phone from nokia is cool =)15:22
Timbotbh I don't remember15:22
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DocScrutinizerusually they try to give a a good-N8 phone15:22
DocScrutinizers/ a / you /15:22
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: usually they try to give you a good-N8 phone15:22
jonwilhmmm, interesting, Nokia is releasing a PR1.3.1 for the N90015:22
DocScrutinizerjonwil: boring15:23
Timbonokia are killing themselves :(15:23
jonwilIt sounds like its just a new set of root certificates to revoke the compromised certificates from DigiNotar15:23
jaskai'll need to specify that i want linux phone with keyboard if mine breaks then :D15:23
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ruskiejonwil, so basically something one can do on their own15:24
ruskiesomeone actually got their money back because nokia couldn't replace their n900 with another n90015:25
jonwilIt also says it has a "a fixed security control panel applet." whatever that means15:25
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: I asked MohammadAG and it seems it's actually the certificate manager settings-plugin, that's fixed to not show blacklisted certs as trusted15:27
jonwilok, sounds like an important fix then15:28
jonwilIs that applet closed or open?15:28
jonwilI know the certificate manager is open somewhere15:28
DocScrutinizerapplet? plugin15:28
jonwilbut I dont know about the plugin15:29
jonwilit says "applet" in the mailing list post I got :)15:29
DocScrutinizerdunno either, but it seems we plan to port it to CSSU as soon as the source gets published, so I think it's supposed to be/become open15:30
jonwilI get the impression that CSSU can redistribute it, not that these plugins will be open15:30
jonwilEither way, its good to see Nokia releasing a security update for this major issue15:31
DocScrutinizerwell, I dunno if the settings' sub-menus qualify for "applet"15:31
jonwilYou dont see other vendors fixing it on their obsolete devices :)15:31
DocScrutinizerthere are other major security issues that are not seeing any fix from Nokia - buzzword adobe flash15:33
Timboare there any other linux based phones with a hardware keyboard?15:33
Timbonow or in the future15:33
DocScrutinizerTimbo: not any generally available ones, no15:33
Timbois the n950 going to see the light of day?15:33
DocScrutinizeroops, from Nokia, that is15:34
jonwilThe N950 will never be released for general consumption no15:34
DocScrutinizerTimbo: not for sale15:34
Timbolooks nice15:34
jonwilI think a GTA04 with a hardware keyboard would be the ultimate in "open phones"15:34
DocScrutinizerGTA04 has major problem of too tight link to GTA0215:35
DocScrutinizerpoor case, nearly unavailable LCM15:36
jonwilwhats LCM?15:36
DocScrutinizerLCD Module15:36
jonwiloh ok15:36
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DocScrutinizerI expect GTA04 hw/EE maturity level to be similar to GTA0115:38
Timbosadly looks like my next phone won't be a nokia15:38
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Timbowhich will be odd, having never owned a different brand of phone15:39
Timbonot through any sort of irrational loyalty15:39
Timbojust because they've made the best solution at the time15:40
DocScrutinizer(GTA04) if they'd not be that locked-in-focused on OM GTA02, they might have opted to get eten M800 for LCM, case, kbd(!) etc15:41
DocScrutinizerGTA04 inside a M800 case would actually meet some of my requirements for an up-to-date phone15:42
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DocScrutinizerthough the hw kbd is incredibly abysmally bad15:43
DocScrutinizerworst hw kbd I ever touched15:43
DocScrutinizerall keycaps are plane and in one level, with no gap or rim or anything separating them15:44
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DocScrutinizerit hard to even visually tell apart one keycap from the other, at night with kbd backlight on it's almost impossible15:46
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TimboI had a shot on my brother's Galaxy S215:48
Timbothe software keyboard was actually surprisingly good15:48
Timboand I've always hated them15:49
Timbounfortunately it takes up 75% of the screen in landscape15:49
Timboso it sort of defeats the point15:49
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Timbomy old nokia E70 had the best mobile keyboard I've ever used15:49
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jonwilI got family that just bought a Galaxy S II15:56
jonwilto replace a dodgy/faulty HTC Desire :)15:56
Timboquite large15:56
Timbobut very shiny15:56
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I should do that. I can't face fighting about it initially. If I get a phone which is saleable for a price to buy a device in good condition, I'm OK.15:58
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DocScrutinizerbut better get a new one from Nokia directly, and also teach them to treat their customers "correctly"15:59
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jabisN9 vkb takes too much space in landscape mode, in the messaging screens - have to rotate around to see what the peeps write and then back again - hope the swype isn't too long away from release16:00
jabisalso bluetooth kbd's wont work with it - blech16:01
* SpeedEvil may open the onvelope, and add a letter.16:01
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mgedminno bt kbd, seriously?16:03
jabisit hooks up but the HID-stuff seems incomplete on N916:04
jabis(kbd shows itself as connected but doesn't link to input)16:04
* SpeedEvil sighs.16:05
* SpeedEvil stabs.16:05
jabiswhat's up Speedo?16:06
SpeedEvilI just find the concept of a phone that doesn't work with a bluetooth keyboard so retarded.16:06
SpeedEvilAlso somewhat annoyed about the whole 'My usb connector fell off' thing.16:07
RST38hMeanwhile: Apps and websites that use the Google Maps API will soon have to pay $4 per 1,000 visitors Google announced today16:08
RST38hBye bye Mappero, Maep, etc16:08
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jabisI guess the factor was more getting the sucker out fast, than fix the hid-stuff *sigh*16:08
mgedminlong live openstreetmap, rather16:09
* mgedmin hasn't been using maep/mappero with google's maps for a while already16:10
jabisRST, damn - I've to take my testing maps out of commission then - not gonna pay for that :/16:10
jabisI was developing a route planner & travelblog-shiz for mobile with gmaps16:11
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SpeedEvilOpenstreetmap has major capacity issues.16:12
SpeedEvilThe servers are basically maxed out, and designed for mappers only.16:12
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SpeedEvilAny significant user of the servers risks getting banninnated.16:13
mgedminhm, point...16:13
VeggenSpeedEvil: but you can't take google and cache your own tileset and get around the limit, can you?16:14
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Veggenbtw: Yes to more porn on OpenStreetmap.16:15
DocScrutinizerI just wonder how they sum up the 1000 visitors are using same app16:16
Veggen(porn has always been a driver for more capacity on Internet...)16:16
DocScrutinizerand if you could just randomize whatever they use to identify the app16:16
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SpeedEvilVeggen: no, youc an't do it legally.16:17
DocScrutinizer(btw this move seems to indicate google actually failed and finally gave up on making money by placing ads to their google maps API)16:17
SpeedEvilVeggen: the T+Cs forbid caching  from google16:18
VeggenSpeedEvil: ok, that was what I meant. You can do it with OSM and get around the capacity problems.16:18
DocScrutinizerwhich you may or may not regret16:18
SpeedEvilVeggen: Not really.16:18
Veggen(at least you can generate your same timles)16:18
Veggeneh, tiles.16:18
SpeedEvilVeggen: yes - generating tiles fixes it.16:18
SpeedEvilThe problem for OSM is users caching large areas for use when they're in an area.16:20
SpeedEvilEspecially to deep zooms.16:21
kurtiswhats the latest software available for n900?16:21
SpeedEvilkurtis: What do you ean by that?16:23
SpeedEvilPR1.3 is the latest major update.16:23
SpeedEvilThere is soon to be a monor patch pushed out to fix the diginotar thing.16:23
VeggenSpeedEvil: mmm, yes. OSM needs a rich uncle that doesn't mind people downloading some tiles and have the bandwidth for it.16:23
SpeedEvilThe problem is the servers are at the moment at a uni, so they can't have commercial sponsorship to do more bandwidth.16:24
VeggenI know most of those things. I'm an OSMer as well :)16:24
* SpeedEvil is operating on reflex at the moment - exhausted after cutting the hedge.16:25
SpeedEvilAnd hammering branches to bend them16:25
Veggen(my idea of spare-time-fun is taking my GPS on a walk in the mountains and track a new path. Last years, I've been doing mainly hiking stuff.16:26
kurtisspeed is there anyway in which i can install pr 1.3 using my device?16:29
SpeedEvilYou can reflash, or over-the-air update.16:30
edheldilDocScrutinizer:  They use API key which you can generate as an registered user, I think. So they will probably require fees depending on that depending on that16:30
SpeedEvilWhat does settings -> about product say about the version16:30
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infobotwell, maemo-flashing is
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* SpeedEvil wonders if the opera update was also for diginotar.16:36
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DocScrutinizerplausible, but I guess they have a changelog somewhere?16:38
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jonwilAnyone know of a reason a SIM card would have a list of network IDs on it?16:46
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DocScrutinizermaybe also interesting:
DocScrutinizerjonwil: roaming16:49
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jonwilSeems that the list of IDs is what get_service_provider_info returns16:50
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RST38hmgedmin: OSM sucks moose balls though16:56
RST38hmgedmin: I guess it is Yandex Maps for me now16:56
mgedminwow, they even map moose!16:56
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RST38hthat is now what they do with moose.16:58
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jonwilbah, I found the information for the cellmo call that is behind get_service_provider_info17:02
jonwilbut I cant find any info on the format of the returned values17:03
DocScrutinizerCountryCode, NetworkCode, <string>longname, <string>shortname ?17:04
DocScrutinizerI completely made up this, based on semi-educated guess17:05
jonwilnope, its a set of bytes17:05
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jonwilI have 4 bytes of data from it17:08
jonwilfrom someone who responded to my list posting17:08
jonwilanyone heard of a mobile company called elisa or one called Saunalahti?17:09
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jonwilaha, both seem to be .fi17:10
SpeedEvilAh - now I can run the script.17:10
SpeedEvilWhere is it again - if more data would be helpful.17:10
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jaskasaunalahti is part of elisa these days17:11
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_berto_jaska: is it?17:11
jonwilSpeedEvil, which carrier are you with?17:11
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SpeedEvil'3' in the UK17:12
_berto_jaska: but they maintain different branding etc17:12
jonwilok, dont know how useful more data would be17:12
jonwilI only really need data from anyone who is roaming on a network other than their home network.17:12
SpeedEvilThen that's not going to work.17:13
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jonwilBah, I cant understand what these 4 bytes could mean17:17
jonwilThe bytes I have are 66,244,80,017:17
kerio66 + 244 > 80 + 017:17
kerioomg, it works17:17
jonwilhmmm, 244 seems to be the MCC for .fi17:18
jonwilThat doesnt explain the 66 or the 8017:19
DocScrutinizer66 might be some NC17:19
DocScrutinizer80 as well17:19
jonwilNo sign of a 66 or an 80 operator code for finland17:21
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jonwilI wonder which of the specs is the one that covers the information stored on the USIM17:22
jonwilreading the UMTS specs might tell me more about what I am looking at17:22
SpeedEvilare they related to what netmon says?17:23
jonwildont think so17:24
jonwillet me check netmon source17:24
jonwilugh, Phython :P17:26
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jonwilDoesnt help me anyway, doesnt appear to be using Phone.SIM for anything17:26
jonwilofono doesn't handle this particular cellmo message either17:26
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DocScrutinizerwell, seems I'm out of ideas, esp since I have no clue how to duplicate the whole thing here17:32
jonwilI am thinking of producing a libconnui-dev package to document such functions and structures in libconnui as I am able to document17:32
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jonwilnone of my x86 tricks are going to help me here :(17:34
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* jonwil wishes he had an easy to write (and run) fragments of ARM ASM17:39
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* jonwil wonders if he is the only one interested in a libconnui-dev package...17:46
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edheldiljonwil:  you can also document it on the wiki somewhere :)17:48
* jonwil sucks at writing usable documentation17:49
edheldilIs it a possible way to a Sim Toolkit?17:49
jonwilnope, sim toolkit features are much lower level than libconnui17:49
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jonwilprobably would need to change cellmo firmware to do it17:49
jonwili.e. not going to happen17:49
DocScrutinizer51we'd get flash-12 rsther than any STK17:50
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DocScrutinizer51aka SAT17:51
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edheldileh, what's flash-12 rsther?17:51
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edheldileek, got it17:51
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jonwilbah, I dont know the right linker arguments to get it to link to
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jonwilbah, the more I stare at this ARM ASM, the more I an convinced that I am not going to get anywhere without either some code/info or some help from an ARM guru :(18:11
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!19:07
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timeless is amsuing21:49
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infobottimeless meant: is amusing21:50
infobottimeless meant: is amusing21:50
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dzhounfortunate colors21:52
dzhothe red and orange are hard to distinguish here21:52
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dzhonot seeing the HTC Dream/G221:54
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timelessthey're not uncommon colors, but yeah, it does blend a bit21:58
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timelessit'd be amusing for someone to do this for nokia phones :)21:58
dzhofor values of "amusing" == "sad"21:59
timelessnah, "considerably more depressing"22:00
timeless(best guess anyway)22:00
dzhoOTOH, I suppose you could say that the phones have the latest releases22:00
timelessdisclaimer: i now work for a competitor22:00
timelessthe worst example is that if you ask people who worked for nokia on maemo22:00
timelessthey could tell you that the latest software was *never* released :)22:00
dzhoyes, hence my use of the term "releases"22:01
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dzhoit's easy to be up on the latest release if there *are* no later releases22:01
dzhothat is not a good thing, just shifts the bad to another category22:01
timelesswell, for one off platforms, it's an interesting grading scale22:02
timelessi think the right approach is to map maemo 1..622:02
timelessand all maemo hardware devices22:02
timelessso the nokia 770 not running maemo 6 (aka meego harmattan)22:02
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* timeless tries updating the (windows) desktop software for a phone22:05
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ShadowJKsymbian phones also interesting, where some nokia phones running "same version" of os are still treated as all different platforms when nokia makes an app22:14
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ErwinJunge~seen javispedro22:26
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 19h 53m 49s ago, saying: 'or $800..'.22:27
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jesuschristhi guya23:17
jesuschristany european here with a n9 ?23:19
jesuschristyou petteri ?23:20
jesuschristdo you have a n9 ?23:20
petterijust said yes to your question23:20
jesuschristhow much you paid if i might ask23:20
jesuschrist16 gb23:21
jesuschristits a lot :(23:21
jesuschristofc, its a lot for me23:21
timelessyou could pay less and get a slightly weaker windows phone from nokia :)23:21
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jesuschristi could just pay a hobo 50 bucks to kick me in the nuts23:22
timelessthe lumia (spanish for hooker?) was just announced23:22
jesuschristcould save 449 euro23:22
timelessit's cheaper, and has slightly less screen realestate23:22
jesuschristim considering getting a n9 from singapore23:22
jesuschristcomes without warranty23:22
timelesswell, you seemed to be somewhat interested in top of the line phones23:22
timelessoffering you a 1$ phone would have been rude :)23:23
* timeless is using a Torch 981023:23
jesuschristwin7phone isnt that bad23:23
timelesswhich seems to run around 435usd if google product search is trustworthy23:24
timelesswell, i'm in Canada23:24
timelessand i was given the phone23:24
jesuschristsame for me, i want to buy one in europe because of the warranty23:24
* timeless boggles23:24
jesuschristotherwise could get a singapore n9 for 580 usd23:25
timelessso..  some companies have global warranties23:25
* timeless can't remember what nokia's policy was23:25
jesuschristnot nokia it seems23:25
timelessAsus had global warranties for everything except the eeepc line23:25
jesuschristso does dell23:26
timelessnote that nokia's warranty behavior is "amusing"23:26
jesuschristand apple23:26
timelessthere was a rumor that n900s were being offered e7 (?)s as warranty replacements recently23:26
* timeless isn't sure if it's true23:26
NIN101either N8 or E7.23:26
jesuschristdo you still sell n900 ?23:26
jesuschristahem s/you/nokia23:27
timelessmy n900 is still my personal phone23:27
timelessalthough i've been offered a curve to use23:27
timelesswhich i will when it arrives23:27
jesuschristforgive my sed dude23:27
timelessi don't think you can buy the n900 from nokia anymore23:27
timelessin fact, i don't think it's been available from nokia for a while now23:27
jesuschristanyway what will you do timeless if you were in my pants23:27
timelesshow much loyalty do you have to nokia23:28
timelessand what are your requirements?23:28
jesuschristsave 100$ and get it without warranty23:28
jesuschristor viceversa23:28
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jesuschristi have totally no loyalty to nokia23:28
timelesswhat will you *do* with your phone?23:28
jesuschristsocial networks, photos, music and videos ofcourse23:28
Maceris there a g+ client for maemo?23:29
Macerthat would be nice :)23:29
jesuschristi want facebook myspace and shit23:29
Macerfb integration wasn't too bad23:29
Macerat least you could share photos etc23:29
jesuschristanyway why does it matter, im just asking about the cash for warranty23:29
timelessjesuschrist: i presume you don't want a hardware keyboard23:29
timelesswhat do you mean by "photos"?23:30
jesuschristi want that model23:30
jesuschristi was joking23:30
timelessdo you want them to be fast?23:30
Maceri don't think there was an actual client tho... so you would have to use the web browser23:30
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timelessdo you want 100mpix pictures?23:30
Macertimeless: uhm... photos? :)23:30
timelessor is 1mpix ok?23:30
Maceri think that one is pretty self explainatory23:30
timelessdo you want a telephoto lense?23:30
timelessMacer: it isn't23:30
timelessis a vga image sufficient?23:30
Macershare....... photos?23:30
timelessdo you need redeye reduction?23:30
sp30001px oughta be enough for anyone23:30
jesuschristi dont care about photos, in fact, if there was a n9 witout camera i would buy it23:30
timelessMacer: see!23:30
timelessit was a very important question23:31
Macerif there was an n9 without a qwerty i WOULDN'T buy it... oh wait23:31
timelessjesuschrist: i'm seriously willing to talk you through the process of making a decision23:31
timelessbut being flip isn't the way to go if you want that help23:31
* Sicelo has taken no more thatn 10 pics on his n900, and zero videos :P23:31
timelesshow much talk time do you really need?23:31
timelesshow often / regularly do you charge your phone?23:31
timelessdo you plan to travel? if so to which countries/continents/regions?23:32
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* timeless took a couple of videos23:32
timelessalmost all of them were accidental :)23:32
jesuschristi dont plan to travel, i need at least 1 hour per day call time, i charge my actually phone every night23:32
Maceri sent my asus transformer in for RMA23:32
Macerbecause it had a blob of messed up pixels23:32
Macerwho watns to bet it comes back the same way i sent it in? :)23:32
timelessjesuschrist: how long is a day for you? 16 hours? 12 hours? 8 hours?23:33
Macerwith a note saying "we couldn't find anything wrong"23:33
Sicelojesuschrist: timeless is going to get u a BB ;)23:33
jesuschristanyway timeless i cant see the point, i just asked about the warranty23:33
timelessdo you plan to tether something to your phone?23:33
Macerjust like nokia with the usb ports23:33
timelessSicelo: dunno actually23:33
timelessi'd have to look up our product line and see if any fit23:33
Siceloj/k timeless ;D23:33
jesuschristtimeless : every night i charge my phone, so lets say 16 hours day23:33
timelessi certainly haven't memorized it :(23:33
timelessjesuschrist: ok23:33
timelessthat question is because some phones (the n900) tend to last closer to 12 hours23:33
sp3000timeless: hey it oughta be easier than for nokia23:33
jesuschristSicelo : lol23:33
timelessin certain configurations23:34
Maceran n900 lasts like 6 hours during heavy use :)23:34
timelesssp3000: yeah yeah23:34
jesuschristand i plan to tether23:34
timelessjesuschrist: ok, do you want to tether by bluetooth or is usb ok?23:34
timelessor do you want to tether as a wifi hotspot?23:34
jesuschristwow the n900 lasts 12 hours ...23:34
* ShadowJK can make his N900 last 1 hour, or 1 week, depending on what he's doing23:34
sp3000but then you used to be able to just do four random digits and probably get a hit23:34
timelessjesuschrist: well under 12 really23:34
jesuschristi would prefer as blutooth23:34
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timelessi think 7-9 is probably a better estimate23:34
ShadowJKI seem to be getting closer to 16 with my normal use23:34
timelessthe point is that if you want 16, the n900 would be ruled out23:34
timelessat least it might be ruled out23:35
timelessit really depended a lot on how you configured it23:35
jesuschristthe n900 last less than 16 with 3g active right ?23:35
timelessbut it was fairly easy to have it die in well under 16 hours23:35
Macerwhen i wifi tethered my n900 it would drain faster than it could charge23:35
Macermicrousb charging ftw23:35
timelessMacer: nice23:35
Maceralthough ... wifi tethering my G2 .. it charges faster23:35
Macerso i can do it all day long23:36
ShadowJKIf you have packets moving over 3g, it'll burn through alot of power. All phones will. Though granted, it's easier to install shit on N900 that produce background data activity...23:36
Maceri think it is just n900 fail23:36
timelessyeah, the n900 was awesome in that area23:36
jesuschristhow much does the n9 lasts ?23:36
MacerShadowJK: well.. minimalist with just gtalk running in the background using telepathy23:36
ShadowJKFor background data activity over 3g: look at the declared wcdma talk time23:36
DocScrutinizerend users of N9 may want to hang out on N9, rather definitely no OS details chat over there23:37
Macermy n900 would drain faster than charge for wifi tethering23:37
DocScrutinizer#N9 rather23:37
ShadowJKwifi hotspot adds a solid 300mA power use, since there's no powersaving possibility in that mode23:37
MacerDocScrutinizer: :) we can't buy an N9 in the US23:37
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Macernot without paying an outrageous amount for the 100 produced and waiting 3 weeks for it to arrive from overseas23:37
jesuschristare you a god DocScrutinizer ?23:38
jesuschrist(ghostbusters ;D)23:38
DocScrutinizerMacer: on #N9 you *might* find a nice N9 fan in a country where you can buy them, so he sends one to you :-D23:38
ShadowJKConnecting USB adds another 80mA, and the maximum charge rate is 950mA from dumbcharger, HSDPA ranges from 200-800mA depending on signal conditions...23:38
MacerDocScrutinizer: no thanks23:38
Macerno qwerty.. no buy heh23:39
jesuschristtimeless : have you forgotten me ?:823:39
timelessirccloud got stuck23:39
Macernow if you find me an n950.. that i would look into23:39
Macerbut then again... n950 has crap hardware already so it is all pointless23:39
jesuschristdefine "crap hardware"23:40
Macern950 probably would run $2000 if you could even find one23:40
timelessthe n900 had a bunch of ways to consume more power than the charger could provide23:40
Macerold.. outdated.... obsolete... underpowered....23:40
Maceraka crap23:40
Macerbut the outsides are stronger than most phones :)23:40
ShadowJKand amusingly Lumia has even weaker hw :)23:40
ShadowJKtimeless, but it's pretty hard to sustain it for extensive amount of time, the heat production probably makes the components desolder themselves23:41
Macermy htc vision/tmobile g2... had ok hardware at the time.. but the outside is the cheapest plastic that the chinese could make23:41
timelessshadowjk: yeah, i wonder how they managed that23:41
Macerand that zhinge crap.. wtf? :)23:41
Maceris making a slider really that difficult?23:41
timelesse lumia23:41
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Macertrying to avoid patent suits??23:41
timelessjc: so..23:41
timelesswhat else do you need?23:41
timelessdo you use sms? voip (e.g. skype)?23:42
timelessdo you require linux? java?23:42
timelessdo you need to have true multitasking?23:42
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timelessdo you need removable storage?23:43
jesuschristi use sms, skype23:43
jesuschristi use java23:43
jesuschristi would love removable storage but i can live without it23:43
timelessi doubt the n9 has a good java story23:43
jesuschristim a linux sysop23:43
jesuschristso i would like linux23:43
ShadowJKtimeless, well let's see... they're ditching all existing designs, and moving to a hardware platform that they've never used or designed anything with before, and on top of that, they have to buy it from a company they're directly competing with in some areas while suing the pants off of them too? Yeah, of course it'll be on schedule, and of course they'll get the components in time. :P23:43
timelessthe n900 had a rather poor story23:43
timelessshadowjk, :)23:43
ShadowJKProbably worse in N9, atleast on N900 someone could make it as an "app"23:44
Maceri stopped listening at "sysop"23:44
timelessif you require java, i think your platform choices are symbian, bbos23:44
ShadowJKbut on N9 java would probably not pass Ovi "QA" :P23:44
timelessanyone know of palm/winmo have java stories?23:44
timelessfwiw, i'm now chatting using my BlackBerry PlayBook23:45
timeless(and irccloud)23:45
Macermeego wouldn't pass meego QA :-P23:46
arnetI am quite sure that if you use gnu java compiler23:47
Macerif you want linux buy a cheap ass android phone like a G1.. root it and install CM6 on it.. and wifi tether a netbook with the latest ubuntu on it23:47
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arnetand get native arm binaries23:47
jesuschristthe phone work macer?23:47
jesuschristi mean would be possible to use it as a phone, mmake and recive calls?23:48
Macerfor the phone and the netbook23:48
arnetnobody will mind23:48
jesuschristanyway no android with such a lovely design exists23:48
timelessactually, if you want a friendly android device23:48
Macerok. i'm going to ignore now. eithe you are trolling or totally stupid.23:48
timelessiirc one of kindle or nook is the answer23:48
timelessone has a sd slot and will boot unsigned roms23:49
jesuschristwho is the subject ? me macer ?23:49
timelessso you can boot anything in it23:49
timelessi think you're in the same conversation23:49
jesuschristlol i cant see what generated your hate but whatever, ignore me23:49
timelessbut kindle/nook aren't phones23:50
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timelessanyway, you should really consider your answers to my questions23:51
timelessthey'll help you make an informed decision23:51
MacerProcessed Through Sort Facility23:51
MacerOctober 27, 2011, 10:43 am23:51
jesuschristtimeless its not about needs, really23:52
Macerwonder how much of a knockoff that is :)23:52
jesuschristi want the n923:52
Macercan't wait to get it haha23:52
timelessalso, if you want to do sysop stuff, you /might/ not find the n9 to fit your needs23:52
timelessthe n950 was a much better config23:52
jesuschristyeah it was, anyway i have a nokia e70 now23:52
ShadowJKYeah for "sysop" stuff you'd really want a keyboard for starters. And then you probably get pissed off at aegis23:52
jesuschristanything is better23:53
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* timeless nods23:53
jesuschristyeah read about aegis, sure is gonna be bypassed soon23:53
ShadowJKif e70 had a bit faster cpu so it could run ssh faster...23:53
ShadowJKwith minimal fontsize you could fit output of "vmstat" on the screen, iirc.23:53
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DocScrutinizerjesuschrist: aegis can't get "bypassed". You can hope for e.g, MeegoCE23:54
jesuschristi dont know anything about aegis exept the name23:54
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jesuschristhow is that it cant be bypassed ?23:54
DocScrutinizerdon't expect OVI apps or any native N9 apps to run on MeegoCE though23:54
jacekowskiit's in "hardware"23:54
timelessaegis is basically a system that controls privileges23:54
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timelessit mostly prevents apps from having powers that remotely resemble beong root23:55
jacekowskibut hmm, are those apps encrypted23:55
jacekowskior anything like that23:55
infobottimeless meant: it mostly prevents apps from having powers that remotely resemble being root23:55
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: referred to yu as the expert of us both regarding M-Shield etc23:55
jesuschristincluding busybox/bash whatever it has the n9 ?23:55
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, with m-shield you can do everything you can imagine23:55
timelessjesuschrist: have you heard of trusted computing?23:55
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: so question is, what are they doing with it23:55
jesuschristyeah i had timeless23:56
DocScrutinizersomebody claimed it relies on BB523:56
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timelessaegis is basically nokia's impl23:56
DocScrutinizerwhich can'T be true at least for xloader23:56
timelesssigned bootloader/chain23:56
jacekowskin900 has that23:56
jesuschristoh lol like symbian certificates23:56
jacekowskisigned xloader23:56
ErwinJungeIs there a way to run commands on login to scratchbox?23:57
DocScrutinizeryeah but N900 xloader drops the ball23:57
timelesssymbian generally let you turn off the block of third party apps23:57
ErwinJungeSpecifically, I want to set SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE23:57
timelessthe n9 generally doesn't23:57
jesuschristno the symb 3rd edition my e70 runs :p23:57
ShadowJKeven on symbian you couldn't get all the privs23:57
ShadowJKiirc I couldn't use GPS on my E70, for example23:58
ShadowJKwithout begging someone to sign my app23:58
jesuschristyou bought the gps module for the e70 ?23:58
ShadowJKbluetooth gps23:58
jesuschristoh :p23:58
jesuschristthe e70 sucks big cocks anyway :p23:58
ShadowJKI like the formfactor23:58
jesuschristyeah that was cool23:59
timelessnokia gave us bt gps modules for using the n81 8g :)23:59
ShadowJKnow it needs better screen resolution, 1-2g of ram, and 1ghz omap3 or something, and it'd be "updated" :P23:59
DocScrutinizerafaik sybian signing has been hacked though23:59
ShadowJK(and maemo)23:59
MacerShadowJK: i think it is overpriced for what it is23:59
Macerlooks nice tho for being a symbian phone23:59
ShadowJKwhat is?23:59
Maceri wouldn't mind getting one23:59
Macerthe e7023:59

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