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| * javispedro sighs at the recent tmo overclocking thread | 00:05 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer | the one I left? :-D | 00:11 |
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| javispedro | that one indeed. | 00:24 |
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| * DocScrutinizer headdesks | 00:31 | |
| * DocScrutinizer blames javispedro for making him read posts like http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1113633&postcount=79 | 00:31 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 00:32 |
| javispedro | you are entirely to blame | 00:32 |
| javispedro | I don't usually sigh after reading a high quality post ;P | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | right | 00:32 |
| * DocScrutinizer is afraid of next sleep - nightmare of getting a job at first level helpdesk pending | 00:33 | |
| javispedro | a helpdesk job? | 00:34 |
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| javispedro | a large, red, flashing "ABORT MISSION" usually appears on my brain after the word helpdesk is heard | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I might have a nighmare of that | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the "is it safe" thread gave my subconscious enough of ideas for a decent nightmare next night. And I'm actually about to sign an employment where it's unclear what I will have to do, so... :-O | 00:36 |
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| * DocScrutinizer idly wonders what happpened to that guy who wanted to swap borked eMMC for a uSD some days ago. Did he succeed in editing all mmcblk[01] occurrences and movinf /home and swap (and MyDocs) over to uSD? | 01:19 | |
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| jonwil | anyone here good with autoconf/automake who can take a look at my makefiles and see why they arent doing what I want? | 03:08 |
| jonwil | Relavent bits are at http://www.cncmods.net/files/cbspatch.zip | 03:08 |
| jonwil | I just cant get it to output the cbspatch binary :( | 03:10 |
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| cehteh | jonwil: i am to lazy to download/unzip it, may you paste the relevent parts to a pastebin? | 03:15 |
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| jonwil | http://pastebin.com/zrVCsWn8 | 03:18 |
| jonwil | Thats got the 3 relavent files pasted into it | 03:18 |
| jonwil | or what should be the relavent files | 03:18 |
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| cehteh | eek SUBDIRS= :P | 03:28 |
| cehteh | jonwil: noinst_PROGRAMS = cbspatch | 03:29 |
| cehteh | instead cbspatch_PROGRAMS = | 03:30 |
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| jonwil | Is that what I want if I am using dpkg to package this binary up? | 03:30 |
| cehteh | nope .. you asked for building it :) | 03:31 |
| jonwil | or whatever the command is | 03:31 |
| cehteh | well bin_PROGRAMS then? | 03:31 |
| jonwil | ok | 03:31 |
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| jonwil | ok, bin_PROGRAMS it is | 03:31 |
| cehteh | note: i dont know about package building | 03:31 |
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| cehteh | just a bit of autotools | 03:31 |
| jonwil | I just need to know what the right statement is for that so that the binary will end up in /usr/bin if I did a "make install" | 03:32 |
| jonwil | then the dpkg bits should do the rest | 03:32 |
| cehteh | yes bin_PROGRAMS then | 03:32 |
| jonwil | ok | 03:33 |
| jonwil | so bin_PROGRAMS causes output to go to /usr/bin and not /bin? | 03:33 |
| cehteh | $prefix/bin | 03:36 |
| cehteh | whatever your prefix is | 03:36 |
| cehteh | by default its /usr/local .. but i bet debian package sets it to /usr | 03:36 |
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| jonwil | ok | 03:38 |
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| jonwil | ok, I did things and its now just saying "make: nothing to be done for 'all'" | 03:39 |
| jonwil | with bin_PROGRAMS set | 03:39 |
| jonwil | just running normal make, not dpkg stuff | 03:40 |
| jonwil | having re-run automake etc | 03:40 |
| cehteh | normally not (if yes then your packaging is broken) | 03:40 |
| cehteh | oh well .. using SUBDIRS= is broken :P | 03:40 |
| cehteh | but check if it created the binary | 03:40 |
| cehteh | in the build dir (or some subdir, depending on the setup) | 03:41 |
| jonwil | it didnt create the binary | 03:41 |
| cehteh | sorry i avoid recursive builds .. to much pita | 03:42 |
| jonwil | when I run autoreconf to do the autoconf bits, it says "unused variable: cbspatch_SOURCES" | 03:42 |
| cehteh | rather doing a include for sub makefiles | 03:42 |
| cehteh | yes | 03:42 |
| cehteh | eh what have you now? | 03:43 |
| cehteh | some typo? | 03:43 |
| cehteh | pastebin it | 03:43 |
| jonwil | ok | 03:43 |
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| jonwil | http://pastebin.com/5Hm8JVYc | 03:44 |
| jonwil | thats the makefile as it looks bnow | 03:44 |
| jonwil | now | 03:44 |
| jonwil | duh, bin_PROGAMS? | 03:44 |
| jonwil | bah :P | 03:45 |
| jonwil | lets see if this does something now | 03:45 |
| cehteh | haha and not 2 underscores | 03:45 |
| cehteh | at __SOURCES and __CFLAGS | 03:45 |
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| jonwil | ok, trying again | 03:46 |
| jonwil | now it doesnt tell me "unused variable blah" | 03:46 |
| jonwil | so it should build | 03:47 |
| jonwil | we have a binary :) | 03:48 |
| jonwil | thanks for your help | 03:48 |
| jonwil | now the packaging should grab the binary | 03:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Okaay. Has anyone seen a thing where the phone will not properly respond to touch events - it responds to the first click, then acts like the button is held down. | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think it's hardware, as if I lock, and unlock, a new event is generated at the right screen location. | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | N900? | 05:11 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 05:13 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes - reflash is the simple answer which gets more complex without a USB port | 05:13 |
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| jonwil | If this displays the right output, I think we are good to go with cell broadcast SMS :) | 05:34 |
| jonwil | YES, its displaying an incoming cell broadcast | 05:36 |
| jonwil | all the packaging and patching seems to be WORKING at last | 05:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Woo! | 06:09 |
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| orangey | jonwil: what are you making? | 06:40 |
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| jonwil | stuff for cell broadcast SMS | 06:40 |
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| orangey | I figured from what you were saying.. | 06:40 |
| orangey | what kind of stuff? | 06:40 |
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| jonwil | basically what I have now is a program that replaces the operator name widget and displays the tower name/ID as sent by the tower | 06:41 |
| jonwil | if the tower sends one that is | 06:41 |
| orangey | jonwil: nice | 06:41 |
| jonwil | works great | 06:42 |
| orangey | jonwil: are you on n900 or n9? | 06:42 |
| jonwil | N900 | 06:42 |
| orangey | I love the n900 | 06:42 |
| orangey | I hope something as free comes along before its days are up | 06:43 |
| jonwil | yes I hope so too | 06:43 |
| orangey | but honestly, if it can live as long as my n810 (still active), then I'm good. | 06:43 |
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| jonwil | If I was to buy a phone right now, I would go for a Galaxy Nexus | 06:43 |
| orangey | I expect a very long life for the n900, though | 06:43 |
| orangey | jonwil: agreed. | 06:43 |
| orangey | jonwil: though I really, really want a keyboard! | 06:43 |
| jonwil | yes | 06:43 |
| orangey | the other thing - does ANY phone have anything resembling 'conversations'? | 06:44 |
| jonwil | Give me a Galaxy Nexus with a keyboard and it would be great | 06:44 |
| orangey | conversations is *amazing* | 06:44 |
| jonwil | I dont know, I think the iPhone SMS app may be close | 06:44 |
| jonwil | but I havent used it myself | 06:44 |
| orangey | not really. it doesn't combine jabber, whatnot into one place | 06:44 |
| orangey | unless ios5 has cahnged that | 06:45 |
| jonwil | hmm yeah good point | 06:45 |
| orangey | how could nobody else have thought of that? it is amazing | 06:46 |
| orangey | anyway, I tried using a friend's android for a few weeks.. and that alone was a huge deal breaker | 06:47 |
| orangey | also, the media player was terrible.. no easy way to podcast. even when I did podcast, no easy media player.. | 06:48 |
| jonwil | If the Galaxy Nexus is as open as the Nexus S is, it would be a good phone. Nexus S only has an AKM blob for the orientation sensor, a Broadcom blob for WiFi/Bluetooth/GPS, a PowerVR blob for the GPU, an NXP blob for the NFC and a Samsung blob for the cell radio interface | 06:48 |
| jonwil | but the nexus S has no keyboard | 06:48 |
| orangey | that is a lot of blobs | 06:48 |
| jonwil | so its not the phone for me | 06:48 |
| jonwil | The N900 has a lot more blobs than that | 06:48 |
| orangey | really? | 06:49 |
| jonwil | yes | 06:49 |
| orangey | tragic | 06:49 |
| jonwil | The N900 has many closed-source components | 06:49 |
| orangey | I didn't realize | 06:49 |
| jonwil | right now though, the most annoying closed-source component is libconnui and libconnui_cell | 06:50 |
| orangey | that's what you're working against? | 06:50 |
| orangey | isn't that just the cell radio interface? | 06:50 |
| jonwil | Thats what I have been reverse engineering | 06:50 |
| orangey | what are the implications of your work now? can libconnui be replaced now? | 06:51 |
| jonwil | nope, thats not what I am aiming at | 06:51 |
| jonwil | basically what you have is the cellular services daemon (CSD) and its plugins | 06:51 |
| jonwil | which talk to the cellular modem | 06:51 |
| jonwil | One part of my project is to apply a binary patch to the closed-source libsms.so.0.0.0 (which is the low level library used to talk to the cell modem SMS interface) to fix a bug in it | 06:52 |
| jonwil | said bug prevented cell broadcast SMSs from being passed up the stack properly | 06:52 |
| jonwil | The other part of my project is a replacement for the operator name widget that displays both the operator name and the tower name (if there is a tower name) | 06:53 |
| jonwil | This uses dbus to talk to the cellular services daemon | 06:54 |
| jonwil | both to listen for status updates (such as change-of-tower and others) and for incoming cell broadcast SMS messages | 06:54 |
| jonwil | if it finds one on the right channel (channel 50) it displays it as the tower name | 06:54 |
| orangey | what's a cell broadcast sms? | 06:55 |
| orangey | is that a message from the operator or something? | 06:55 |
| jonwil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_Broadcast | 06:56 |
| jonwil | Thats what it is | 06:56 |
| jonwil | libconnui and libconnui_cell are libraries that talk dbus to the cellular services daemon and provide an interface that is used by all of the stock connectivity UI | 06:57 |
| jonwil | like the dialog for selecting a wifi network | 06:57 |
| jonwil | or the phone settings control panel | 06:57 |
| jonwil | or the widget that tells you if you are on 2G or 3G and how much signal you have | 06:57 |
| jonwil | or the stock operator name widget | 06:57 |
| jonwil | now as for my widget, there are 2 things I still want to do to it. The first is I want to find out what to do with cell broadcast messages other than channel 50 and how those should be displayed/handled. | 06:58 |
| jonwil | The other issue is that the operator name I get is not correct | 06:58 |
| jonwil | What I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to do is to figure out how the stock operator name widget gets the operator name. I know it uses some functions in libconnui_cell to do it | 06:59 |
| jonwil | But I cant find out how the operator name widget calls those functions or what those functions do inside | 07:00 |
| jonwil | so I cant get the proper operator name | 07:00 |
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| jonwil | which is why I wish I had the header files or source for libconnui_cell and libconnui :( | 07:01 |
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| jonwil | bah, I just cant find anything useful to finish this project off (either the correct operator name or what to do with cell broadcast messages other than channel 60) | 08:07 |
| jonwil | channel 50 | 08:07 |
| jonwil | I am extremely happy that its actually working and displaying the right cell tower name | 08:12 |
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| slonopotamus | meh, diablo kernel doesn't work with glibc >= 2.12 | 09:07 |
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| * jonwil wishes reverse engineer ARM binaries wasnt so hard :( | 09:15 | |
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| slonopotamus | jonwil: ain't it as hard as any other binaries? | 09:18 |
| jonwil | x86 is nice | 09:18 |
| jonwil | I like x86, its not so hard | 09:19 |
| jonwil | ARM is hard | 09:19 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/25/apple_unlock_patent/ | 09:27 |
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| badbees | hi. i have installed kernel power 42 and aircrack and wifi driver selector applet.when i try to load bleeding edge drivers it says Error while loading kernel modules ifconfig: SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device | 10:12 |
| badbees | why? | 10:13 |
| badbees | ive downloaded bleeding edge drivers through this applet | 10:13 |
| psycho_oreos | check dmesg as to the reason why.. maybe the bleeding edge drivers may not be compatible with that kernel version | 10:17 |
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| badbees | psycho_oreos : so where can i find compatible driver? | 10:24 |
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| psycho_oreos | badbees, there isn't. I think its a minimum requirement that you must have kp47 or later. | 10:25 |
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| badbees | psycho_oreos : is that unstable? | 10:27 |
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| psycho_oreos | badbees, stable in some ways, unstable in others | 10:27 |
| psycho_oreos | badbees, much the same as the bleeding-edge driver, some functions work whilst other functions won't | 10:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | host 222.253.86.176 | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | evil spammer | 10:35 |
| psycho_oreos | s/host/zwhois | 10:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no zwhois here | 10:36 |
| psycho_oreos | descr: VietNam Post and Telecom Corporation (VNPT) | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | 253.222.in-addr.arpa. 26600 IN NS hcm-server1.vnn.vn. | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | 253.222.in-addr.arpa. 26600 IN NS vdc-hn01.vnn.vn. | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | fakes "my" postmaster, sends attachment.zip | 10:37 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, http://pastebin.com/einbfN0D | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;; ANSWER SECTION: | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | 176.86.253.222.in-addr.arpa. 86324 IN PTR localhost. | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 10:41 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 10:41 |
| jaska | hostile hostmaster | 10:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | how would I examine a .zip in a safe way? | 10:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | through a sandbox? | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeew | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_60, | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,MISSING_MID,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.2.5 | 10:47 |
| Jaffa | Moring all from Npokia World | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo Jaffa | 10:47 |
| jaska | excited about winphones?:P | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | *yawn* | 10:47 |
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| Jaffa | SillyiPad/Terminus keyboard | 10:48 |
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| Jaffa | jaska: Not at all. | 10:49 |
| jaska | yeah, i wasnt expecting you to be | 10:50 |
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| jonwil | I refuse to have anything to do with a phone that requires payment of money in order to develop for it | 10:57 |
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| jaska | and i refuse to have anything to do with phones that dont have keyboards. | 10:58 |
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| jonwil | same here | 10:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha, >>[Virus entfernt] attachment.zip<< | 11:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | Subject: Delivery reports about your e-mail | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Your email account was used to send a huge amount of spam during this week. | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | Most likely your computer was infected by a recent virus and now runs a hidden proxy server. | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | We recommend you to follow the instruction in order to keep your computer safe.<< | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | SURE | 11:11 |
| joga | send credit card details to remedy situation? | 11:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | quite a bit ironic how the timeline seems inverted here | 11:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno, I'd never open such a attachment.zip | 11:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas my web.de account mail server doesn't tell *which* virus it removed | 11:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but "your computer is infected and most likely sends spam - please follow instructions in attached virus.zip" is really a funny catch | 11:15 |
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| _berto_ | http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/26/the-nokia-world-2011-keynote-liveblog/ | 11:30 |
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| _berto_ | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=lumia%20800&aq=f&oq= | 11:47 |
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| Jartza | nokia lumia 800, nokia räntiä 900 and nokia sohjoja 1000? :) | 11:54 |
| Jartza | sorry, only finns will get that :/ | 11:54 |
| jaska | haha | 11:55 |
| jaska | nokia rakeita | 11:55 |
| _berto_ | I assume they're different types of snow? | 11:56 |
| inz | rakeita is actually hail, but otherwise yes | 11:56 |
| _berto_ | :) | 11:57 |
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| jonwil | god I hate dbus sometimes :( | 12:29 |
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| crashanddie | Hah | 12:34 |
| crashanddie | I just might have lunch with RMS. | 12:34 |
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| jonwil | Anyone know anything about dbus-glib? http://pastebin.com/nZHugW45 | 12:47 |
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| iuuso_ | Jartza: nice :D | 12:48 |
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| iuuso_ | good luck translating that joke. ;) | 12:48 |
| iuuso_ | http://www.wordmagicsoft.com/dictionary/es-en/lumia.php | 12:49 |
| iuuso_ | wonder what kind of reaction "nokia lumia" does in spain. | 12:50 |
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| BluesLee | someone followed nokias keynote this morning? | 12:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh dear. | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | What was it? | 12:52 |
| BluesLee | for me it was dissappointing | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | They've decided to axe windows, and go for a new OS, based on GEM? | 12:52 |
| ShadowJK | windows arriving in Bangladesh before christmas, or something. | 12:53 |
| BluesLee | the only interesting fact is that the nokia lumia 800 or whatever it is called will be priced at 420 € | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Is that windows? | 12:53 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 12:53 |
| ShadowJK | the "N9 with windows" | 12:53 |
| BluesLee | yepp, with a better cpu | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | who knows what's inside though. was it said? | 12:54 |
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| ShadowJK | Now you've got to elaborate :P | 12:54 |
| iuuso_ | there wasn't any 'mindblowing' stuff with the new phones, for what i noticed. | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | because if it's 1.2Ghz qualcomm, it isn't "better" | 12:54 |
| iuuso_ | where there any other releases today than the lumia 800? | 12:55 |
| BluesLee | ShadowJK: i mean the cpu in the n9 is a real "old" one, every new announced smartphone will have a better cpu except the gta04:-) | 12:56 |
| ShadowJK | BluesLee; well it's equivalent to 2Ghz snapdragon isn't it... | 12:56 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 12:57 |
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| BluesLee | i thought nokia world 2011 could be a turning point for nokia, now i have my doubts | 12:57 |
| ShadowJK | you can't turn on glass windows, they go *crash* and break :P | 12:58 |
| BluesLee | maybe nokia cant present it, for instance apples siri, it make a good impression durung the keynote, it tested it and its crap, really crap | 12:59 |
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| ShadowJK | omap4 dualcore would get more points in blogs and such, but atleast last time I checked omap4's ram controller was so slow it as a whole even runs slower in some circumstances than the omap3 in N9 :/ | 13:00 |
| ShadowJK | if TI manages to fix that though omap4 would be awesome :) | 13:01 |
| dm8tbr | ShadowJK: did you check on a 4430 or 4460? I think they did some stuff, but I'm not sure. | 13:02 |
| edheldil | iuuso_: some Asha phones | 13:02 |
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| ShadowJK | dm8tbr; we'll find out once pandaboard ships with it? :P | 13:03 |
| dm8tbr | ShadowJK: mru or someone reported having one of them ;) | 13:03 |
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| dm8tbr | dunno if it ships to general public yet though. | 13:04 |
| ShadowJK | last time I saw he was still bitching about ram speed :/ | 13:04 |
| dm8tbr | hmkay | 13:04 |
| ShadowJK | though it's hard to tell whether the daily rant stopped because he got fed up at the silence, or because it was fixed? :P | 13:05 |
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| ShadowJK | or maybe ranting elsewhere instead | 13:06 |
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| edheldil | have I missed something, or did Nokia show much more love to L800 than to n900 and n9 combined? | 13:08 |
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| vdv | where does kernel binary reside on maemo? | 13:11 |
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| jonwil | on one of the /dev/mtd partitions I believe | 13:12 |
| vdv | why after installing multiboot it's in /boot/multiboot ? | 13:12 |
| jonwil | I know nothing about multiboot | 13:12 |
| jonwil | and from what I gather, people around here dont like multiboot all that much... | 13:13 |
| vdv | and file with the same name doesn't present on the system before multiboot, vmlinuz-2.6.28-omap1 | 13:13 |
| flux | I imagine if you have multiboot, you perhaps have a 'boot kernel' in the mtd partition and it starts off the real kernel stored elsewhere | 13:13 |
| flux | or one of the several kernels | 13:13 |
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| vdv | after installing nitdroid, it's started successfully (and maemo too), but after switching to another nitdroid kernel maemo boots, but nitdroid not, i don't understand what's happend | 13:16 |
| flux | ..maybe the nitroid folks would know more about that? | 13:18 |
| vdv | nothing happens on the channel | 13:19 |
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| Sicelo | unfortunately, u won't get much on multiboot here too | 13:24 |
| jonwil | if I can fix this dbus_g_proxy_call call, my plugin will be almost perfect for my needs :) | 13:26 |
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| ShadowJK | from what I've heard, multiboot is a script that flashes new kernel on boot and redirects bootup? | 13:28 |
| jonwil | all I know about multiboot is that its a piece of junk :) | 13:30 |
| Sicelo | :P | 13:31 |
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| * jonwil would give anything to have full documentation on the dbus interface to the Cellular Services Daemon :( | 13:49 | |
| mece | jonwil, I thought we had that | 13:49 |
| jonwil | nope | 13:49 |
| jonwil | its totally undocumented | 13:49 |
| jonwil | unless you know something I dont | 13:49 |
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| jonwil | there is a libcsnet-dev package that contains some vague bits about com.nokia.phone.net | 13:50 |
| jonwil | and I think I might have seen some documentation somewhere about com.nokia.csd.GPRS | 13:51 |
| jonwil | but there is nothing whatsoever on com.nokia.csd.Call, com.nokia.csd.Info, com.nokia.phone.SIM, com.nokia.csd.SMS or com.nokia.csd.SS | 13:52 |
| jonwil | oh wait there are 1 or 2 tiny bits on a wiki page somewhere | 13:52 |
| jonwil | but by far the vast bulk of com.nokia.csd.* and com.nokia.phone.* is undocumented | 13:53 |
| jonwil | :( | 13:53 |
| jonwil | com.nokia.phone.SIM is top of my wishlist | 13:53 |
| mece | jonwil, :/ | 13:53 |
| jonwil | with com.nokia.phone.net and com.nokia.csd.SMS next | 13:53 |
| jonwil | so many of the "good" bits of Maemo are totally undocumented and closed | 13:55 |
| jonwil | which sucks :( | 13:55 |
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| chem|st | jonwil: undocumented or closed | 14:03 |
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| jonwil | both in most cases :( | 14:04 |
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| jonwil | like anything that talks to the cell modem | 14:04 |
| chem|st | there is some docu on that I thought | 14:05 |
| Kaadlajk | at least phone.net is documented but I guess libcsnet-doc package is not available? | 14:05 |
| jonwil | nope | 14:05 |
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| jonwil | phone.sim and csd.sms are totally unknown | 14:05 |
| jonwil | which is why my code for getting the operator name is not working | 14:05 |
| chem|st | the latest comment by a.klapper on bug 3399 was that nokia considers maemo5 stable and will only fix heavy bugs | 14:06 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/3399 Will not auto connect to WPA-Enterprise | 14:06 |
| jonwil | yeah we know maemo5 is dead | 14:06 |
| jonwil | would still be nice to see more documentation though | 14:07 |
| chem|st | jonwil: but he thinks he still needs to explain (that was yesterday btw) | 14:07 |
| chem|st | even the n900 maemo website is fwd to n9 now | 14:07 |
| jonwil | Releasing the right pieces of docs and header files would enable the community to do all the things they want to do without Nokia needing to write any code or fix any bugs... | 14:09 |
| Kaadlajk | libsim-doc has the phone.sim interface documentation | 14:09 |
| jonwil | libsim-doc doesnt exist | 14:09 |
| Kaadlajk | it does in internal repos | 14:09 |
| jonwil | yeah :( | 14:09 |
| jonwil | All the docs and dev packages that we need to push maemo5 to the next level do exist. But Nokia just wont release them :( | 14:10 |
| chem|st | Kaadlajk: they should make m5 public, a christmas gift to the community | 14:10 |
| Kaadlajk | I can leak if someone pays the fines and serves the time :-) | 14:11 |
| chem|st | even with nda for developer folks it would be a good gesture | 14:11 |
| chem|st | Kaadlajk: someone should accidentially drop it on some git account | 14:11 |
| chem|st | get the login details of someone you do not like and use his account to upload it... | 14:12 |
| chem|st | while he is at a meeting... | 14:12 |
| chem|st | I'd prefer nokia's ceo's account, time to replace him anyways | 14:13 |
| Kaadlajk | has to be a long meeting | 14:13 |
| chem|st | Kaadlajk: has to be a fast uplink | 14:13 |
| chem|st | if started as system task it will run in background even if noone is logged in | 14:14 |
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| jonwil | well that test was sucessful | 14:37 |
| jonwil | I picked up about 6 different towers in my walk around the block | 14:38 |
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| jonwil | Assuming I can get this dbus stuff fixed, tomorrow I will go on a massive test and pass through as many towers as possible | 14:40 |
| jonwil | to see that it all works :) | 14:40 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/26/nokia_world_quite_different/ <-- rofl @bootnote | 15:20 |
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| cityLights | ok, going to the irclog and searching for n9 was a mistake | 15:22 |
| cityLights | but can anyone here please update me ? | 15:22 |
| cityLights | what is goinf on with the N9? is it out? | 15:22 |
| auenf | its definately out | 15:22 |
| auenf | but its never going to be out everywhre | 15:23 |
| auenf | the 'other' markets get 800 instead | 15:24 |
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| ruskie | cityLights, http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/26/nokia_rolls_out_winpho_range/ <-- here's your "N9" ;) | 15:27 |
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| auenf | my N9 is sitting in the local store waiting for me to decide whether i need 16GB or 64GB :P | 15:27 |
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| auenf | 800 only comes with 16GB (plus 25GB skydrive) it seems | 15:28 |
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| cityLights | so the ppl that got the n950 , where the last ownr of a linux based nokia phone | 15:28 |
| RST38h | "Nokia's Brave New World is (almost) Finn-free" (C)TheRegister | 15:29 |
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| RST38h | "The only Finnish presence on stage during the 90-minute opening session of Nokia World this year was a dead architect. None of the five speakers was a Finn, and they said some very un-Nokian things." | 15:29 |
| cityLights | so I should have asked for a n9 dev kit | 15:30 |
| ShadowJK | cityLights; N950 is as linux (or not) as N9? | 15:31 |
| cityLights | meego... | 15:31 |
| ruskie | with a lock and chain ;) | 15:31 |
| auenf | cityLights, iirc, meego/maemo/harmattan isnt dead | 15:35 |
| auenf | it is 'future disruptions' or something | 15:35 |
| cityLights | ok, let me ask it easy, which phone can I buy to use with python and open phone | 15:36 |
| cityLights | the phone api | 15:36 |
| Sicelo | wow! n9 really looks great. saw one here 30 minutes ago | 15:38 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not sure if phone api is open or not | 15:39 |
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| Sicelo | jonwil was saying one keyboard-less nexus is very open. dunno about python though | 15:43 |
| ShadowJK | probably needs same or more effort | 15:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | Apologies if I've asked this before, and forgotten. | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | What's the procedure in the UK, if you want to warranty repair your device, and are not in range of a nokia care centre. | 16:02 |
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| crashanddie | mail probably | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Was wondering if anyone could link me to the right site - I suppose I should google. | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Exhausted from hedgecutting. | 16:06 |
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| ShadowJK | In finland Nokia Care pretended with straight face that 400kn is "in range" | 16:08 |
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| cityLights | Sicelo: where are you? | 16:09 |
| cityLights | I mean my N900 is aging and I am looking for a n9 | 16:10 |
| * SpeedEvil is rsyncing off his n900 ATM. | 16:12 | |
| SpeedEvil | Leaving me only my backup. | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | (backup n900) | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | (well, and n950) | 16:12 |
| Evanescence | I'm updating N900 connecting to a wi-fi, it is so slow even I'm very close to wi-fi, and no downloading on this wi-fi, the update speed is only 70B/s, shit. | 16:12 |
| Evanescence | almost 3 hours !! | 16:13 |
| Evanescence | really crazy. | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Some firmwares don't get along. | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Turn off power saving mode in the network setup. | 16:14 |
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| Evanescence | SpeedEvil: let me try | 16:15 |
| Sicelo | cityLights: swaziland, africa | 16:16 |
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| cityLights | for real? why are you holding a n9? | 16:17 |
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| Sicelo | lol, it's black, like me :P | 16:20 |
| Sicelo | can't afford it. my n900 still does all i need | 16:21 |
| Sicelo | cost = 722euro. my n900 cost me 200eur in july, new | 16:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: right on right on | 16:50 |
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| jonwil | hooray for libosso-abook_4.20100302+0m5_i386 | 16:59 |
| jonwil | Its making the same dbus call I am trying to figure out | 16:59 |
| jonwil | and since its x86, its easier to reverse engineer | 17:00 |
| jonwil | turns out I was missing a G_TYPE_INVALID on the end of my dbus call | 17:02 |
| jonwil | Lets see if this helps | 17:02 |
| jonwil | IT WORKS. | 17:04 |
| jonwil | Its giving me the operator name I want | 17:04 |
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| cityLights | which , cellular | 17:06 |
| cityLights | ? | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: \o/ | 17:07 |
| jonwil | yes I am very close to having a fully-usable cbsms plugin | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | accessing that NNNN->"some carrier name" database? | 17:08 |
| cityLights | one reason for me to attend FOSDEM is meeting you guys | 17:08 |
| jonwil | nope, its not that | 17:08 |
| crashanddie | jonwil, be nice! | 17:08 |
| jonwil | I am using some dbus signals :) | 17:08 |
| jonwil | to get the operator name | 17:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fair enough, it can come from iirc ~4 different sources | 17:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | database form 3digit network ID, short plaintext carrier name OTA, long of same, plus hardcoded to SIM | 17:09 |
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| jonwil | well I am using 2 different dbus signals | 17:10 |
| jonwil | Phone.Net.get_operator_name | 17:10 |
| jonwil | and Phone.SIM.get_service_provider_name | 17:10 |
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| jonwil | which is what other parts of the system (including the stock widget) are using | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't comment on that, as I can't relate it to what I know about how it's working on low level | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | as long as there's no semantics description of those calls, both can do arbitrary stuff in my book | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | if however I had to speculate, I'd think the phone.net calls are more low level than the phone.sim ones | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so maybe phone.sim keeps "your" provider name, while phone.net follows all roaming etc | 17:17 |
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| Sicelo | does n900 have the operator name db? | 17:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'll happily test for you, once there's a binary I could use. My SIM card has a hardcoded "Vodafone" or sth in it, while usually databases as obtained from internet have "O2" for my network, and the network itself offers "loop" as plaintext | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: I *think* I once seen it, yes | 17:20 |
| Sicelo | ah, will look | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a mega catch all grep for a nice provider name will tell you ;-) | 17:21 |
| Venemo_N950 | hey | 17:21 |
| Venemo_N950 | what's up? | 17:21 |
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| Sicelo | jonwil: count me in for testing :P | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: "I *think*" means I could as well be wrong, and seen it at SHR, or even OM2008 | 17:23 |
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| Sicelo | np DocScrutinizer. i used to see such a db on symbians | 17:23 |
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| jonwil | What I can see is that the Phone.Net call makes a NET_OPER_NAME_READ_REQ to the cell modem | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | etc/operator-settings ? | 17:26 |
| jonwil | That cellmo call retrieves specific operator names depending on what you pass as the parameter | 17:27 |
| jonwil | In the case of the stock operator widget, its passing either SHORT_OPER_NAME or FULL_OPER_NAME | 17:29 |
| jonwil | make that NET_NITZ_SHORT_OPER_NAME | 17:29 |
| jonwil | or NET_NITZ_FULL_OPER_NAME | 17:30 |
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| jonwil | well thats what connui_cell_net_get_operator_name passdes | 17:30 |
| jonwil | I believe in this case the widget is asking for FULL_OPER_NAME | 17:31 |
| jonwil | which makes sense for displaying on the home screen | 17:31 |
| Sicelo | yes DocScrutinizer. actually now i remember seeing it before too. dumb me | 17:31 |
| jonwil | Then the Phone.Sim call retrieves specific operator name from the SIM card | 17:31 |
| jonwil | That /etc/operator-settings is the settings for data and stuff | 17:32 |
| jonwil | and I dont believe it is used by the operator name logic | 17:32 |
| Sicelo | lol, Swaziland aint there. | 17:32 |
| jonwil | if there IS a hardcoded list of PLMN operators, it might be on the cell modem | 17:32 |
| jonwil | cellmo firmware | 17:32 |
| Sicelo | dumb thing.. even has mms setting for some of them | 17:33 |
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| jonwil | aha, NITZ is Network Identity and Time Zone | 17:34 |
| jonwil | so the NITZ name is whatever the tower says it is | 17:34 |
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| jonwil | there is also EONS, Enhanced Operator Name String | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: yes, largely unclear but possible that cmt fw also has a list like etc/operator-settings | 17:35 |
| jonwil | but the phone doesnt ask for that | 17:35 |
| jonwil | I know of motorola phones that have a PLMN database file | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it's basically irrelevant what is and what's not supported, just the priority sequence is relevant | 17:37 |
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| jonwil | in this case I am going to use the logic as given by libosso-abook in deciding what calls to make and in what order | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | fair aproach | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | as probably for that stuff cmt manufacturer's implemetation is all you get for specs | 17:38 |
| jonwil | I just wish my shell-fu was better so I could finish this testing-shell-script I am working on that will output some specific info which will help me with my testing/reverse engineering | 17:38 |
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| jonwil | If I have a shell variable set to 123456789, how can I get 2 more shell variables, one of which is set to 123 and the second of which is set to 45? | 17:39 |
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| jonwil | oh wait this gen-obex-capability.sh does what I need | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: ${parameter:offset:length} | 18:00 |
| jonwil | found what I needed | 18:00 |
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| * slonopotamus wishes those who refer to "hildon" also made it clear what hildon version they talk about | 18:03 | |
| slonopotamus | for example, is http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon diablo or fremantle? | 18:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hah, yeah. good call | 18:16 |
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| jonwil | I think I have finally figured out the logic of connui_cell_net_get_operator_name | 18:36 |
| jonwil | which is perfect | 18:36 |
| jonwil | now I can create a clone of that function :) | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 18:37 |
| jonwil | or heck, I could probably just call connui_cell_net_get_operator_name directly :P | 18:37 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 18:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~lolstats | 19:17 |
| infobot | total count of lol on #maemo: 10367. Top 3: rm_you -- 543 (5.2%), lcuk -- 447 (4.3%), MohammadAG -- 440 (4.2%) | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~:)stats | 19:17 |
| infobot | total count of :) on #maemo: 11212. Top 3: KotCzarny -- 1603 (14.3%), Macer -- 790 (7.0%), lardman -- 530 (4.7%) | 19:17 |
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| jonwil | ~:Pstats | 19:22 |
| jonwil | I think I am finally understanding all the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lolstats | 19:23 |
| infobot | total count of lol on #maemo: 10367. Top 3: rm_you -- 543 (5.2%), lcuk -- 447 (4.3%), MohammadAG -- 440 (4.2%) | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | already said that | 19:23 |
| jonwil | hopefully if I get some responses to the post I just made to the list, it will help me understand the final pieces I need | 19:23 |
| jonwil | and I will be able to obtain the exact same operator name in 100% of cases | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | cool | 19:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer just wonders why there's no such thing like SMS-CB on 3G | 19:25 | |
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| jonwil | there is, its just that most operators and equipment doesn't support it | 19:38 |
| jonwil | or doesn't support the channel 50 tower id stuff | 19:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, here there's not a single SMS-CB on my carrier's UMTS net | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | so they didn'T think it's worth supporting it, it seems | 19:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which is strange enough, as their SIM STK uses chan 210(?) coords sent by 2G to calculate whether nobile is inside the homezone or not | 19:42 |
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| jonwil | how does that homezone work on 3G then? | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe due to per-def finer granularity of 3G BTS this feature isn't needed anymore, and they just define homezone area by a set of BTS | 19:43 |
| jonwil | or does it not? | 19:43 |
| jonwil | oh ok | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though, on second thought, this doesn't make a lot of sense, as they could've done same on 2G | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, what I mean is: also 2G only sends coords of BTS, so why would they not need same for 3G | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps | 19:46 |
| infobot | it has been said that rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 19:46 |
| chem|st | lol would be funny as some AP gives a location return about 300km away from its actual pos if using 3g instead of 2g | 19:46 |
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| chem|st | I cannot get a fix where I am atm as the APdb gives a wrong location and the cache never matches... | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I've been somewhat tempted to send to my cell-provider a data protection Subject Access request. | 19:47 |
| chem|st | for 3g that is | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | To get a copy of all the data they hold on me. | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "hold" is a fuzzy term | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Including for exmple what location records are held. | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | They're required to give it all up. | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless I'm the subject of an ongoing police enquiry. | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess they'd claim they don't 'hold' that info as there's no standard way to query it via user interface | 19:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Not legally acceptable. | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | much similar to routing tables in internet routers have some info of your actual location but that'S not commonly accessible | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's system processing data considered temporary and not meant to get stored permanently to some database that is kept | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Not so much interested in transient data. | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Just what's stored. | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I doubt they stor location server records | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | or well, maybe they do. Dunno | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they do, they do evil | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least here in Germany. They aren't even allowed to store DHCP leases | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 19:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | Germany is a bit paranoid though. | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | "only data that's needed for account balancing" | 19:55 |
| SpeedEvil | (Which isn't a bad thing) | 19:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | gvmt is lobotomized here - one half wants to store *everything* and forever, while the other half wants to erase everything the moment it's no more needed. And then there's of course the debate who defines what's "needed" | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.internet4jurists.at/gesetze/vo_uevo01.htm it's not only that the provider mustn't have a means to notice if some law enforcement entity is using that interface to eavesdrop and check meta-data, it's actually even mandatory that not even concurrent access by several such entities is detectable by any of the parties | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not even big brother can tell if big brother is watching XY | 20:05 |
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| Sazpaimon | ive never used skype on my N900 until today | 20:21 |
| Sazpaimon | and wow, I never realized how seamless it was | 20:21 |
| Yuyuko | skype is satan's cock | 20:21 |
| Yuyuko | are you a mountaintop, Sazpaimon? | 20:22 |
| Yuyuko | because you sure as hell don't look like one | 20:22 |
| Yuyuko | combust hemp every solar rotation | 20:22 |
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| Sazpaimon | skype is "my girlfriend can call her mom in the dominican republic because ive had $6 in my skype account for the last 3 years" | 20:22 |
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| FIQ|n900 | hm | 20:24 |
| FIQ|n900 | Something is strange with the phone functionality when calling people that has something that i THINK is called a "Funtone" | 20:25 |
| FIQ|n900 | At least it's marketed as that in our country | 20:25 |
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| FIQ|n900 | Something that sounds when you call them during the process | 20:25 |
| FIQ|n900 | The ringing beep doesn't stop when this is active, and the other one answers | 20:26 |
| FIQ|n900 | it just continues on forever | 20:26 |
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| FIQ|n900 | Hmm | 20:58 |
| FIQ|n900 | I wonder, would it work to map F1-F6 to shift+fn+number? | 20:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | and F9-F12 on 7-0 | 20:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | on N900 | 20:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | F7-F8 already exists - the volume keys | 20:59 |
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| FIQ|n900 | uh | 21:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: that's SIP (sipgate.de) for me | 21:51 |
| FIQ|n900 | Tried the command in the wiki about changing the layout to see if there was any difference... but the command didn't work at all? | 21:52 |
| FIQ|n900 | "Illegal map name '(nokia_vndr/rx-51(us)):' in symbols name 'nokia_vndr/rx-51(common)+nokia_vndr/rx-51(ru)+nokia_vndr/rx-51(nokia_vndr/rx-51(us)):2+inet(evdev)'" | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | for F-keys usually <ESC>+<number> works as well | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/usually/often/. | 21:53 |
| FIQ|n900 | ..and if I don't have ESC? | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | too bad | 21:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though you could argue your app needs a better hildonization then | 21:54 |
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| BluesLee | anyone online who has both devices n9 and n900? | 22:11 |
| * mgedmin waves hesitantly | 22:11 | |
| BluesLee | mgedmin: can you tell me what you miss on the n9 besides hw restrictions like hw kbd etc? | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | apps like PasswordSafe and FuelLog | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | surprisingly I don't miss the hw kbd! | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | the upsides of the n9 outweigh the lack of a hw kbd | 22:13 |
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| BluesLee | thats fine | 22:13 |
| mgedmin | I also expected to be very irritated by the cross-hatch patterns of the pentile AMOLED screen, but I'm not | 22:13 |
| mgedmin | again, the upsides outweigh the downsides (for me, personally) | 22:13 |
| BluesLee | mgedmin: i would miss a cron like app like alarmed | 22:14 |
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| BluesLee | mgedmin: any drawbacks/limitations concerning openness so far? | 22:15 |
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| mgedmin | people like to complain about aegis in #harmattan | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | I personally haven't suffered (yet?) | 22:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | It impacts sme apps. | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | sme | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | sme | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | some | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | oh, the inability to create shell scripts in ~/bin was annoying | 22:16 |
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| BluesLee | mgedmin: why that? | 22:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Some of it's just barking mad. | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | aegis doesn't let you exec any binaries that aren't cryptographically signed or something | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | You can make the flash LED flash, but not the indicator one. | 22:17 |
| BluesLee | mgedmin: i mean where you put your scripts to? | 22:17 |
| mgedmin | but you can sh /path/to/script, or alias script='sh /path/to/script' | 22:17 |
| mgedmin | it doesn't matter where you put the scripts, aegis doesn't let you run them :) | 22:17 |
| BluesLee | not directly but "sh binary" works? | 22:18 |
| mgedmin | sh binary? no; sh script yes | 22:18 |
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| mgedmin | I believe /lib/ld-linux.so /path/to/binary doesn't work either | 22:18 |
| mgedmin | (the kernel doesn't let you mmap an executable page from a file that lacks a crypto signature) | 22:18 |
| BluesLee | okay, i guess i have to read mor about aegis or whatever | 22:19 |
| mgedmin | in short, if you want to run something, you need to package it as a deb | 22:19 |
| BluesLee | no chance to turn it off?:-) | 22:19 |
| mgedmin | thankfully you are allowed to install arbitrary .deb's created without having access to nokia's private keys | 22:19 |
| ShadowJK | though you can't get all permissions, right? | 22:20 |
| BluesLee | that is a bad workaround i mean just for quick hacking a shell script | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | dunno about that | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | for quick shell scripts I use aliases, like I said | 22:20 |
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| Sicelo | what about 'aegis-free' kernel? anyone tried it on n9 yet? | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | people are working on it, afaiu | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | someone mentioned something on this topic in #harmattan a couple of hours ago, I think | 22:21 |
| ShadowJK | is there a flasher for N9 yet? | 22:21 |
| BluesLee | its a matter of time, i trust the community:) | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | haven't seen one | 22:21 |
| ShadowJK | i guess that's an issue, heh. | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | but I heard that an OS upgrade is coming "in the last quarter of 2011" | 22:21 |
| Sicelo | 0.o no flasher? | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | If you boot harmattan with a non-aegis kernel, much doesn't work properly. | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | SpeedEvil, examples, please! | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | I'm curious | 22:23 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it, for example, incoming messages aren't stored, as the aegisfs filesystem has become readonly | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | can you use Maps or Drive? | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | ooh, incoming messages, ouch | 22:24 |
| ShadowJK | even with aegis, if you swap sim card you lose messages | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - yes | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy | 22:24 |
| ShadowJK | in many ways N9 is 5 steps backwards software-wise :/ | 22:24 |
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| ShadowJK | instead of dualsim, it sabotages sim-swapping :)) | 22:25 |
| mgedmin | just using microSIM instead of miniSIM sort of sabotages sim swapping... | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | that too :) | 22:26 |
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| Sicelo | this aegis is bad news indeed. no usb hostmode possibility if disabled, and doubtful if it can work well with it enabled | 22:29 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: what the fuck | 22:30 |
| kerio | really? | 22:30 |
| kerio | :| | 22:30 |
| Sicelo | ah, my bad. misunderstood the link | 22:30 |
| kerio | great, the n9 is crap | 22:30 |
| mgedmin | but such beautiful crap | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 22:31 |
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| mgedmin | "no wifi. less space than a nomad." | 22:31 |
| BluesLee | damn, aegis is not good for us | 22:31 |
| ShadowJK | oh I forgot about the wifi thing :) | 22:31 |
| SpeedEvil | It's unclear how possible it is to get harmattan working without aegis in the picture. | 22:31 |
| ShadowJK | A lot of work atleast | 22:31 |
| BluesLee | if i cant mount a simple image, in many cases i hold my data in images | 22:31 |
| ShadowJK | it might be beautiful, but I don't think I'd wanna stare even at beautiful women if someone is twisting my nipples and kicking me in the balls :P | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | I hooe the software issues get fixed :(( | 22:33 |
| ShadowJK | hope* | 22:33 |
| mgedmin | nobody is doing that | 22:33 |
| mgedmin | just putting handcuffs on you :) | 22:33 |
| BluesLee | aegis is a real regression | 22:33 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 22:33 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're just wanting to write games, not really. | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | But knowing past history, I'm waiting on purchasing N9 until I see that the bugs have been fixed :P | 22:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Or many 'normal' apps. | 22:34 |
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| Sicelo | SpeedEvil, ShadowJK, sorry to interrupt. what can cause n900, when attempting to calibrate battery, to increment 'cycle count since learning' without ever being connected to a charger/usb since full charge? it tends to happen somewhere between 50 and 30% full | 22:35 |
| BluesLee | SpeedEvil: the list in the above link is obviously a regression compared to the n900 | 22:35 |
| Sicelo | s/upt/upt this conversation./ | 22:35 |
| infobot | Sicelo meant: SpeedEvil, ShadowJK, sorry to interrupt this conversation.. what can cause n900, when attempting to calibrate battery, to increment 'cycle count since learning' without ever being connected to a charger/usb since full charge? it tends to happen somewhere ... | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Sicelo: no clear thoughts | 22:36 |
| BluesLee | nokia nokia nokia | 22:36 |
| Sicelo | thanks. i'll investigate further | 22:37 |
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| BluesLee | you will investigate nokia? good luck:-) | 22:37 |
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| Sicelo | lol, battery. | 22:37 |
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| BluesLee | hehe, just a joke | 22:38 |
| Sicelo | ;) | 22:38 |
| ShadowJK | Sicelo; it would be explained by if it gets incremented same time as total cycle count is incremented | 22:38 |
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| Sicelo | well, i am not too sure if that increments as well, but i find it strange that count since learning should increase without input power of any sort | 22:42 |
| Sicelo | i'd assume total cycles is incremented as well | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: cycle count gets incremented on completing a 100% total of charge+discharge. So this can happen any time | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess a cycle is defined as full charge + full discharge, so count increment will happen during discharge | 22:46 |
| Sicelo | hmm. i remember u mentioning that a while ago. | 22:47 |
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| Sicelo | so, even if edv1 goes to 1, when vdq was 1 too, cycle count since learning will not necessarily become 0? | 22:48 |
| Sicelo | or 1.. | 22:48 |
| ShadowJK | it'll become 0 | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | completing a learning cycle should result in cycles-since-learning get reset to zero afaik, maybe 1. For exact definition of sequence of conditions met to complete a valid learning cycle please refer to datasheet | 22:49 |
| ShadowJK | but it probably gets incremented same time as total | 22:49 |
| ShadowJK | it'd save a computationally expensive counter register that way :P | 22:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as those values aren't meant to be of any significant relevance for any process, they aren't that precisely defined and implemented | 22:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though I really question the rationale behind counting 20 timed discharge to 95% and recharge to 100% as equal to one discharge to 0% and subsequent charge | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | times* | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 22:53 |
| ShadowJK | Even the battery cell manufacturer probably doesn't have algorithms or tables to recalculate that into equivalent-full-cycles :) | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, that'S what I meant by "precisely defined" | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a ballpark figure value to give an idea about something | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | not more | 22:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if you need better values, more precise and "real" ones, you want to go for e.g the chip used in N9 which does true battery impedance evaluation and thus gives a real value about some relevant battery status | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | it will actually detect a crappy cell when it goes nuts. Not rely on "duh, 500 cycles should be OK'ish for a LiIon cell" | 22:57 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd never thought that the total cycle count would be (ab)used as a battery health meter :) | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually nobody does that | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | except Sicelo ? ;-P | 22:58 |
| ShadowJK | no he isn't looking at total cycle count. | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | right | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you've noticed I augmented my original bq27k-detail script to work on N900 as well? | 23:00 |
| ShadowJK | nop | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | still needs bash X-P | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | do you have decoding now too? | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | status bit decoding? Yup | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | and the rest | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | iirc there were some eeprom values left to decode that I didn't finish | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, the rest? the 1) and 2) 3.57uVfoo? | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think I got all, incl temperature to °C and °F | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | (°F without decimals ;-P) | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | name is bq27k-detail2 | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might add true cmdline argument parsing plus terse output mode eventually | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus proper check for i2ctools available (actually I think it doesn't behave nice when i2ctools missing) | 23:05 |
| ShadowJK | and then fix all the bashisms? ;P | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, I refuse | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | not going to implement arrays the manual way | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | (which os the only bashism left over I think) | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | is* | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | i didn't know you could do bitops in sh :D | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are a couple more but those are for clean coding only | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, you can't? | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | that's what I thought | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | didn't think $(( $foo & 0x0F )) was a bashism | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | and why I used series of multiplication and division instead :) | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | I guess I never tried though | 23:08 |
| Sicelo | last measured discharge reported by bq27k-detail2 is different from bq27200 script. 1423 and 1419, respectively | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# echo $(( 255 & 0x03f )) | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | 63 | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | messybox ^^ | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: ummm | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf?! | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, sure | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | wow | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | may be related to 20 vs 22 for RS | 23:12 |
| ShadowJK | I use 21, dunno if I updated scripts | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody knows for sure, so it's up to you :-D | 23:12 |
| ShadowJK | 21 because ssirka (iirc) said that matched closest when they tested an N900 in a jig | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia never was like dripping by here, uttering "twentytwo is it" | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | dropping but meh | 23:13 |
| ShadowJK | or maybe that was 22, I forget | 23:13 |
| ShadowJK | Should update scripts and make a big change to it, and watch the replacement battery thread on tmo getting happy people when their capacity goes up ;P | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | The blue scud is no more :-( | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually bq27k-detail is using 20 | 23:15 |
| Sicelo | the bq27200 i have has RS=20 | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | "hardcoded" :-/ | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | probably rounding error then | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ 1423 / 1419 | 23:16 |
| infobot | 1.00281888654 | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ 21 / 20 | 23:16 |
| infobot | 1.05 | 23:16 |
| ShadowJK | I do the intermediate calculations with 3 extra significant digits of precision ;p | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't even know how many extra digits I use | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | wait what, bash does floats? | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | ah oops, misread | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | *3.57 / 20 = " $(( `pv 0x13 0x12` * 179 / 1000)) "mAh" | 23:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so you see why my RS=20 is hardcoded | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | I do value * 3570 / 20 / 1000 | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I was hesitant to do this, for unclear reason | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | So like, the difference becomes that yours is rounded upwards, and mine downwards? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | as actually I think at least bash arithmetics are virtually unlimited digits | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | no wait... | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | who cares for those 0.3% | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | for such a "precise" value like LMD | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | hehe | 23:21 |
| Sicelo | lol | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: nevertheless many thanks for those thorough checks :-) | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in the end the diff between ShadowJK 's and mine is just mine needs bash but then comes with half of the datasheet as citation, so you can understand more easily what the values mean, while his is better suited for practical everyday usage | 23:24 |
| * ShadowJK has the datasheet as comments | 23:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer | plus of course mine keeps backwards compatibility to rev1 for openmoko devices | 23:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and it's nicer to read the source ;-P | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | that it's not :P | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | (pretty much thanks to bash, admittedly) | 23:27 |
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| ShadowJK | man, bitops support. And it was so fun and enjoyable to write it with normal integer arithmetic too :P | 23:27 |
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| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1114205 | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | beat this: ;-D | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | cc DocScrutinizer | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | echo " 0x0A: 0x${dmp[0x0A]}" "FLAGS Status Flags R" | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | echo " $(( (0x${dmp[0x0A]} & 2#10000000)?1:0 )) CHGS Charge State flag. A 1 in the CHGS indicates a charge current (VSRP > VSRN). Charging." | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | echo " $(( (0x${dmp[0x0A]} & 2#01000000)?1:0 )) NOACT No Activity flag. A 1 indicates that the voltage across RS is ~0. Neither charge nor discharge." | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | unreadable :D | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | Update should be out tomorrow and by Friday for everyone, didn't want to mention that on tmo in case it doesn't happen :P | 23:31 |
| ShadowJK | hm, can you do bitshift | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: >> again, please do not try to update WHEN YOU'RE USING CSSU (using apt-get or similar methods).<< | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yes | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, good call | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you can do all the c stuff | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | bah | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | too easy | 23:32 |
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| NIN101 | hm. What is this "security control panel applet"? | 23:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also in bashism >> for (( i=startenv++; (i & 2#1000000)>>2 != endvar; i*=2 | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | )) | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Part of the warranty process. 'Use Ovi Suite to back up your contacts, pictures and other personal data. The device software is updated as part of the repair process and your personal data will be remover.' | 23:35 |
| ShadowJK | It probably changes hte password on your gmail, skype, etc without telling you, then reports yourself to the police | 23:35 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, no backup app anymore? | 23:35 |
| NIN101 | well ok :-). | 23:36 |
| Sicelo | lol. sounds promising. hope it won't introduce worse issues though | 23:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: There is something wierd going on with input. | 23:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I press the screen, it clicks, then acts like it's held down. | 23:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I can synthesise an up-event by locking the device | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's not actually usable. | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | what device? | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle I could flash it, but my warranty is about to expire anyway. | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | touchpanel defect | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | not unseen | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think so. | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | Or screen protector | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not protector - I pulled it. | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | or dust between the bezel and screen | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | :/ | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think so. | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | which bezel? | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It doesn't act like that. | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | this isn't a OM FR | 23:38 |
| ShadowJK | the one I accidentally jammed my first screen protector under | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | or a N810 | 23:38 |
| SpeedEvil | If there was some contact, then locking, unlocking, and presing wouldn't generate a keyclick | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | it might be a semi contact between two thresholds | 23:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Possibly. | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if it uses a higher threshold for mousedown than mouseup | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply silicon rotten | 23:39 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders desoldering the emmc before sending. | 23:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: tp controller chip DS will tell you | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess | 23:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Probably not a good plan. :) | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | why would you do that? | 23:40 |
| SpeedEvil | 64M in my other n900! | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess to practice and protect privacy? | 23:40 |
| SpeedEvil | G | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~lolstats | 23:41 |
| infobot | total count of lol on #maemo: 10371. Top 3: rm_you -- 543 (5.2%), lcuk -- 447 (4.3%), MohammadAG -- 440 (4.2%) | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I wish I could get a pile of scrap n900s to play with, for various reasons. | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | There was someoen on tmo selling a dead-cellmo n900 | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's probably terribly hard | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Unless you can locate the right factory in china. | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even then | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | their trashbins have been emptied some 30 months ago | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | only chance: see ^^^ ShadowJK | 23:42 |
| ShadowJK | I didn't think broken N900s went back to china | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: 'recycling is good!' | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | why would *anybody* do that? | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | sending broken chips to the factory? | 23:43 |
| ShadowJK | (besides, it says made in korea on my N900) :-( | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, that too | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | even Hungary, Finland | 23:44 |
| SpeedEvil | There are recycling vendors that do pulls. | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ownta is as much "recycling" as you'll probably ever fimd | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and you probably could even ask them to find you some CATF00D | 23:46 |
| FIQ|n900 | there's a thing i don't understand | 23:47 |
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| FIQ|n900 | let's say i have a SDHC card with an ext3 file system | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I revently noticed the free fifth (different) speaker they sent me with the 4 I ordered is actually a earpiece transducer it seems | 23:47 |
| FIQ|n900 | while inserting in N900, hildon will report "not supported" | 23:47 |
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| FIQ|n900 | but mounting manually works fine | 23:48 |
| FIQ|n900 | why...? | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | mounting script not prepared to mount ext3 | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think there've been community patches to that | 23:49 |
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| FIQ|n900 | hmm | 23:50 |
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| ShadowJK | Mounting script roughly does: list partition table: is there 1 partition? N -> abort else: is first partition of type W95FAT32? N-> abort else: try mount first partition as vfat. fail->abort | 23:50 |
| merlin1991 | wtf @ ~lolstats | 23:50 |
| merlin1991 | defenitely not lol worthy | 23:51 |
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| merlin1991 | FIQ|n900: somewhere in the bugzilla on maemo.org is a patch for the mounting script | 23:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thought as much | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | called it "community patch" | 23:54 |
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| FIQ|n900 | ah | 23:56 |
| FIQ|n900 | nice | 23:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: "is there >0 partitions" | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | somewhat less evil than I remembered then :) | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | it mounts my VFAT partition of my uSD with 2.=ext3 3.=swap just fine | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure though if the ext3 is really safe ;-P | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, at least it reports correct size for df | 23:59 |
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