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| luke-jr | it would be interesting if someone set up a SMS XMPP gateway <.< | 00:45 |
|---|---|---|
| luke-jr | bypassing SMS when both numbers are connected to it possibly | 00:45 |
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| faina | that seems like an alteration to the xmpp servers routing protocol? Also how would the sms get back to the xmpp server? | 00:48 |
| faina | I know there's internet to sms gateways for some mobile phone networks. | 00:48 |
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| luke-jr | faina: the same way people reply to Google Voice SMS | 00:50 |
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| faina | luke-jr: I think it requires the cooperation of the mobile phone network. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_gateway | 00:54 |
| faina | It does look like there are companies that'll sell you 2-way sms services though | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you got problems :-P the question is: who's going to *pay* for all those SMS? | 01:37 |
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| faina | Yeah, that's why my solution is don't use SMSes but instead stay connected to my jabber server 24/7 | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I stay on irc 24/7, and I could stay on my public server box 24/7 as well (actually I do with IRC bouncer ZNC already) | 01:42 |
| faina | I'm still trying to decide if I like IRC... | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and my gsm carrier offers SMS notification on inbound email for free | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I for ure like it better than jabber | 01:44 |
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| faina | the jabber group chat has some serious issues. | 01:44 |
| faina | but for point-to-point jabber seems a bit more straight forward? | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | how so? | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | no issues with /query faina, or whomever I want to reach. As long as I know that person is logged in to a certain IRC network... | 01:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I know the nickname | 01:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and after all there's still SIP as well, has also a chat function | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah I forgot I'm 24/7 online with my SIP account of course | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | and via 3G SIP VoIP even works quite well with my carrier | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe a bit laggy | 01:50 |
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| chem|st | moo | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo chem|st | 01:51 |
| chem|st | jabber has proper encryption layers... | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 01:51 |
| chem|st | but most clients do not support the full spectrum of jabber so who cares | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I rarely need encrypted realtime duplex communication | 01:52 |
| chem|st | thats you... | 01:52 |
| chem|st | what about terrorists? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, and if I'd need, there's ZRTP | 01:53 |
| chem|st | rofl | 01:53 |
| chem|st | bad joke I know | 01:53 |
| chem|st | reboot | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | terrorists???? will not tuch encryption with a 10 feet pole usually, as that is like shouting "watch here, I'm going to do nasty" | 01:54 |
| * faina distracted by coworkers | 01:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | terrorists use steganography or simple old codewords | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | or nothing of all that, as they are stupid as a cut down tree - otherwise they were not interested in terrorism | 01:57 |
| chem|st | ;) | 01:57 |
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| chem|st | off to bed... happy easter! | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a merry new year | 01:58 |
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| faina | DocScrutinizer: /query <username> opens up a direct message with them? | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 02:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you also can /query with infobot ;-) | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~query | 02:25 |
| infobot | talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :) | 02:25 |
| faina | one other question... the /query rooms are they actually treated as rooms or as just as extra buffers? (Though that might be better asked in #emacs) | 02:26 |
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| faina | I think I've seen an infobot in other channels? | 02:26 |
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| faina | Somone/thing in #python remaps pastebins | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | queries are (in)direct client to client, they are not like rooms that can get joined by other 3rd parties | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo | 02:27 |
| infobot | I'm on 120 channels: #debian/1071, #meego/397, #maemo/324, #kde/323, #asterisk/204, #gsoc/174, #webos-internals/172, #wowuidev/159, #wowace/138, #oe/137, #harmattan/121, #wowhead/120, #openmoko/103, #htc-linux/75, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #uclibc/63, #tomcat/63, #utah/60, #bzflag/59, #curseforge/55, #asterisk-dev/54, #diablofans/53, #sc2mapster/48, #slug/46, #edev/43, #riftuidev/42, #/37, #uphpu/35, #elinux/31, #norganna/29, #gllug/24, ##kierra/24, ... | 02:27 |
| infobot | i've cached 4932 users, 3589 unique users, distributed over 120 channels. | 02:27 |
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| faina | Ah, is there a way to find what channels there are? | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, usually your client has a command for that | 02:28 |
| faina | is there a way to get a count before you do the query? | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth like /channels or /chanlist or dunno | 02:28 |
| faina | A long time ago I tried a channel list (I think) and got bored of watching my screen scroll for several minutes | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably not, as even my client warns me about the traffic that "F5" will cause | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, probably several 1000s of channels | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's an URL / a webpage somewhere | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | supposed to list all freenode channels | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably next to freenode web frontend | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka gateway | 02:31 |
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| faina | http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://webchat.freenode.net/ | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 02:31 |
| faina | I wonder what the sort order is. | 02:32 |
| faina | Ah users.... | 02:32 |
| faina | No wonder #ubuntu is never quiet | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Searched for ''. 10864 matching entries found.<< :-D | 02:33 |
| faina | some channels on that list include # and some don't? I thought all irc channel names started with # | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | some start with ## | 02:37 |
| faina | the ## is a temporary channel? | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | somewhat, yes | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | non-official or whatever channels. You probably mustn't create #ibm, but you may create ##ibm | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 02:38 |
| faina | ok | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | there are also local channels that start with & | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh? | 02:39 |
| faina | local? | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | but I don't think Freenode supports that | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah in IRC networks you can create a server local channel that are not network wide channel | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | it only exists in the server you're connected | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | you can try in a network like EFnet something like: /join &test | 02:40 |
| Sc0rpius | and it will work. | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, a voluntary netsplit? nice ;-P | 02:40 |
| Sc0rpius | my point is not all channels start with # :P | 02:40 |
| faina | Ok | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | the fact I never know where chat.freenode.net will connect me to will somewhat defeat the purpose of those local channels ;-) | 02:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | faina: if you ever run across a command like /writeall or /amsg or sth like that - beware, it sends to all channels you're logged in and that will make freenode ban you for a week or two | 02:43 |
| faina | ah thank you | 02:43 |
| faina | though right now I'm only logged into 2-4 channels | 02:43 |
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| faina | I can see the temptation to log into scores though. | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | might suffice, depending on size of the channels | 02:44 |
| faina | ah ok. | 02:44 |
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| faina | Also ... do you ever suffer from channel overload? | 02:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | idoru was the nasty bot doing that | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you send to several channels where idoru is a user, you get klined | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | faina: channel overload? like join-throttling? | 02:46 |
| faina | is there a way to recognize bots? | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | not reallya | 02:46 |
| faina | more ... puny human brain being overloaded with too many different threads of conversation | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | except Turing test ;-D | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, all the time | 02:46 |
| faina | Bots are getting closer and closer to passing that test. | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | the trick is to ruthlessly ignore when things don't sound interesting | 02:47 |
| infobot | I already passed it :) | 02:48 |
| faina | One of the things that seems appealing of IRC over something like twitter... is twitter will helpfully keep track of all the messages, including when you werent there. so you end up further and further behind. | 02:49 |
| faina | IRC was nice because when I was disconnected I could pretend it doesn't exist | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | or you look at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | but yeah, irc is inherently volatile | 02:50 |
| faina | Nooooo! ;) (yeah I've looked at that to see what someone was currently talking about while I was out) | 02:50 |
| faina | also not all channels log | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 02:51 |
| faina | thank you for the pointers to irc culture | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you don't mind (I like to read that one myself every now and then): | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ask | 02:54 |
| infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. | 02:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~question | 02:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so I just installed libgcc1, libstdc++6, and gcc4.4-base from ubuntu lucid to my N900 | 02:54 |
| infobot | hmm... question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | 02:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | there were no conflicts | 02:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | no errors | 02:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and now lightspark is starting | 02:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i hope I didn't break anything else though | 02:54 |
| faina | as long as there wasn't already a libgcc1 / libstdc++6 it should be good | 02:55 |
| Sazpaimon_ | there was | 02:55 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it replaced them | 02:55 |
| Sazpaimon_ | everything is still running fine | 02:56 |
| faina | have you rebooted the phone? | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | what? | 02:56 |
| Sazpaimon_ | no not yet, pretty sure I'm about to reflash it | 02:56 |
| faina | Linux doesn't delete files until all of the open file handles have been closed | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | you installed a new libgcc etc? possibly a x86 based one? | 02:56 |
| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, why would I do that | 02:56 |
| faina | so if something had already opened the old libgcc1 open, it should still have a handle to it | 02:56 |
| Sazpaimon_ | why would dpkg allow that | 02:56 |
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| faina | dpkg should toss a warning if the architecture doesn't match | 02:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | exactly | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | faina: exactly. Next boot goes BOOM | 02:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | Im going to reboot now and see what happens | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | prepare for bootloop | 02:58 |
| faina | though... there is something you could do | 02:58 |
| Sazpaimon_ | lucid's armel libstdc++6 is linked to 2.4>=libc6 | 02:58 |
| faina | extract just the so from the old version and drop it in place | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, do a backup with backupmenu. But you should've done that before you replaced system libs | 02:58 |
| faina | e.g. so you'd have libgcc1.x.y and libgcc1.a.b | 02:58 |
| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, why, I only will need to reflash rootfs | 02:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 02:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer | your reflash, not mine :-) | 02:59 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yeah, it seems suck on the bootup lights | 02:59 |
| Sazpaimon_ | *stuck | 02:59 |
| Sazpaimon_ | oh well, what can you do | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | may I ask what'S the purpose of this experiment? | 03:00 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | oh wait, it started | 03:00 |
| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, lightspark only works on gcc 4.4 | 03:00 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so I had to compile it with that | 03:00 |
| Sazpaimon_ | naturally this breaks compatabiity on the device | 03:00 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | anyway, the OS started up | 03:01 |
| Sazpaimon_ | looks fine, but its not detecting my sim card now | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, so you probably could have proper symlinks to the according matching lib versions and nothing bad would happen if all is done correctly | 03:01 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | you mean package the program with its own libstdc++.so.6? | 03:02 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and libgcc.so.1? | 03:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | depending on lightspark linking you also could place the gcc4.4 locally into lightspark's dir | 03:02 |
| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, what do you mean with gcc4.4 | 03:03 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i meant that it requires gcc4.4 to build | 03:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err I meant the libs you need | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | man ld-linux|less +'/The shared libraries needed by the program are searched for' | 03:04 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | yeah that might work, since the libc6 version is fine | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> ld.so understands the string $ORIGIN (or equivalently ${ORIGIN}) in an rpath specification (DT_RPATH or DT_RUNPATH) to mean the directory con- taining the application executable. Thus, an application located in somedir/app could be compiled with gcc -Wl,-rpath,'$ORIGIN/../lib' so that it finds an associated shared library in somedir/lib no matter where somedir is located in the directory hierarchy. | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | This facilitates the creation of "turn-key" applications that do not need to be installed into special directories, but can instead be unpacked into any directory and still find their own shared libraries.<< | 03:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'll roll back the installation of libstdc++6 because it seems to have broken the detection of the sim card | 03:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | surprisngly everything else works | 03:07 |
| Sazpaimon_ | unless its a fluke that the sim card isnt getting detected | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess there's not that much of core system that's coded in c++ | 03:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | opera ran fine, I'm pretty sure that's coded in c++ | 03:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so did microb | 03:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but the ABI probably wasnt backward compatible enough | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically if a lib isn't abi compatible, it mustn't use same version number and thus won't get used by apps linked against the older version | 03:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | how do I request a specific version number with apt again? | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | err app=version, sth like that | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompls | 03:12 |
| faina | I wonder what the output of ldd on microb would be. (Not sure where the executable is) | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/apt-get install hildon-desktop=1:2.2.140-1+0m5 | 03:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | okay so I want libstdc++6=4.2.1-4maemo13+0m5 | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html might help | 03:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >>When a new version of a library is binary-incompatible with the old one the soname needs to change.<< | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>For C++ (and other languages supporting compiled-in templates and/or compiled dispatched methods), the situation is trickier. All of the above issues apply, plus many more issues. The reason is that some information is implemented ``under the covers'' in the compiled code, resulting in dependencies that may not be obvious if you don't know how C++ is typically implemented.<< | 03:21 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | uh | 04:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so I rolloed back my libstdc++6 | 04:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and my sim card still isnt beinf detected | 04:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | anything I can do before I reflash? | 04:17 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, ping | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm? | 04:28 |
| Sazpaimon_ | [21:16] <Sazpaimon_> uh | 04:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | [21:17] <Sazpaimon_> so I rolloed back my libstdc++6 | 04:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | [21:17] <Sazpaimon_> and my sim card still isnt beinf detected | 04:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | [21:17] <Sazpaimon_> anything I can do before I reflash? | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | given the history I'd strongly suggest a reflash, prior to anything else | 04:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | can I reflash on the device itself, or is that just for the kernel | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're still free to do a proper backup first, so you could roll back, for whatever purpose | 04:30 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I dont have any computers handy with the drivers installed | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, rootfs can't get reflashed without PC and USB | 04:30 |
| Sazpaimon_ | thought as much | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least this time of day I can't figure how to do it | 04:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | my menu->settings->about also isnt showing an imei | 04:32 |
| Sazpaimon_ | strange | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | reflash (or reinstall linisi, rtcom-dunno-what rtc) | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | libisi | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | etc | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | *yawn* | 04:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | libisi1? | 04:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'll try it | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably the most direct way to talk to modem is via pnatd | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | should talk to libisi, and libisi will talk to the modem aiui | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | AAAH, and GPS isn't possible without cellmo working | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | (but then a GPS that can't get a fix isn't anything special) | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | pnatd: AT<enter> ->OK | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | -->modem alive | 04:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I got the same result | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | OK? | 04:40 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yep | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, so somebody isn't talking nicely to modem, to make it detect and register the SIM | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | or the SIM (or anything in modem) is broken | 04:41 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I tried a second sim | 04:41 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i dont think changing the libstdc++ library would brick the modem | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm quite sure the process that asks for PIN and talks to cellmo to enable GSM is dead, or blows chunks | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui this process also looks somewhere in gconf, or CAL, to get the PIN when set to "don't ask", any of that could have been shot down by libstdc++ | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly even wrote bogus data to the storage, and now it doesn't work anymore even with a perfect lib | 04:45 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so a fresh rootfs is probably my only option | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | your best option for sure | 04:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wait a second | 04:46 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'm listening | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | never mind, can't find it right now. Probably a silly idea anyway | 04:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thought about asking modem via AT about some SIM detail, oder modem detail (like IMEI) | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | but what would that tell us? | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it works we know it's *probably* the rootfs and some process(-config) there, and if it doesn'T work we don't know anything | 04:50 |
| pabs3 | can you run ldd over the binaries and libs? that might be able to find something? | 04:51 |
| Sazpaimon_ | that isnt the issue, I dont think | 04:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | You can reflash the device using an install of meego on the SD card and the bootloader installed. | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget how | 04:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmmhmm, maybe this start update-mode or what it's been caled, to enable --local | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then this would require flasher binary running on meego | 05:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure you could restore a backup (or an unpacked rootfs image, for that) from a auxiliary system that's not even mounting the NAND | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | via mtd_debug, or flasherase & nandwrite | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd recommend good ol'reflashing, the most basic method | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp since that would also deal with NOLO and cellmo-FW, just in case | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and (the big mytery) probably even with repartitioning NAND mtdparts | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | mystery* | 05:13 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | still is taking some time to start up | 06:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it picked up my network now, though | 06:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but my app database is gone | 06:17 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | i thought flashing rootfs doesnt effect that | 06:18 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ping | 10:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | pong | 10:09 |
| psycho_oreos | enlighten me please, the N900 came from factory as overclocked? I never recall seeing N900 at 600MHz is overclocked :) | 10:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | it is, basically. TI says so by stating 100.000h at any clock speed, but only 23.000h at 600MHz | 10:11 |
| psycho_oreos | hmm crap | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | every other 50MHz probably will half that timespan | 10:11 |
| Mark__T | DocScrutinizer: so 700MHz is 100000h too :-P | 10:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I more think it will be 5000h@700MHz | 10:12 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm sure even with the poor wording TI chose to document with, any frequency above 600MHz will shorten the life span | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1000@800 | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | and maybe 100@1000 | 10:13 |
| psycho_oreos | and what happened, rather which factoid trigger was it that shows the three links to people with overclocked (and now damaged) N900? | 10:14 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought it was ~overclock | 10:14 |
| psycho_oreos | err ~overclocking | 10:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 10:14 |
| infobot | methinks omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 10:14 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh thanks :D | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | my "OC is 1337" link in signature of tmo as well | 10:16 |
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| psycho_oreos | trying to grill this user: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1102347&postcount=12 | 10:19 |
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| robbiethe1st | .join #wine | 11:11 |
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| chem|st | moo | 11:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: why? | 12:15 |
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| robbiethe1st | ? | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo chem|st :-) | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-10-05 10:11:28] <robbiethe1st> .join #wine | 12:15 |
| robbiethe1st | Because . != / | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 12:15 |
| robbiethe1st | I suppose . could equal / if you're in the root directory though... | 12:17 |
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| Mark__T | probably the most annoying question, but how do I solve this http://dpaste.com/627767/ | 12:39 |
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| ruskie | never seen that before | 12:40 |
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| Mark__T | this is my sources.list: http://dpaste.com/627770/ | 12:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=921929&postcount=24 | 12:42 |
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| psycho_oreos | check line 6 in your second paste : | 12:44 |
| psycho_oreos | :p against http://repository.maemo.org | 12:45 |
| Mark__T | psycho_oreos: Thx, I tend do get lost at talks.maemo.org | 12:45 |
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| Mark__T | psycho_oreos: iirc I had something like that already a while back, but mamory faded | 12:48 |
| psycho_oreos | Mark__T, have a look at what I just wrote before you typed all that | 12:48 |
| Mark__T | I think I had freemantle-1.2 somewhere | 12:48 |
| psycho_oreos | your problem was already indicated | 12:48 |
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| Mark__T | psycho_oreos: doing another apt-date update already, only waiting, thx for helping out | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Miramax CEO: Apple Is a Bigger Threat To The Music Industry Than Piracy | 12:52 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 12:53 |
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| RST38h | To software industry as well, I might add | 12:54 |
| Hurrian | RST38h, if so, then they're a threat to hw industry too | 12:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the only threat to music industry is their inability to adopt contemporary concepts of content deployment - plus of course the whole casted-boygroup etc idea producing mountain high heaps of noise junk that they think users should even *pay* for. | 13:02 |
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| ErwinJunge | DocScrutinizer: Remember a while ago I told you about my sim going missing randomly and you told me to let someone do hot air reflow? Didn't work, any other ideas? :) | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: sorry, no | 13:12 |
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| ErwinJunge | No problem, was worth a try asking you though | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure thing | 13:12 |
| ErwinJunge | My usb port is securely fixed now though, so that's a small plus | 13:13 |
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| MohammadAG | stuff a paper above the sim | 13:21 |
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| ErwinJunge | MohammadAG: How much paper? i.e. how thick? A single layer of regular printer paper? | 13:29 |
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| MohammadAG | ErwinJunge, one, make two layers out of it | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably highly useless | 13:31 |
| Hurrian | MohammadAG, what is kernel-thumb2? | 13:32 |
| ErwinJunge | MohammadAG: Thanks, I'll try it | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | IF it were a contact problem, then bending contact springs outward carefully would help way better | 13:32 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, something we tried for Ubuntu 10.10 | 13:33 |
| Hurrian | ah | 13:33 |
| MohammadAG | crashed a lot on maemo | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | as in my sim holder slot at least there's not even space to have another 2 layers of paper | 13:33 |
| MohammadAG | mine can hold 3 :P | 13:33 |
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| Hurrian | my n900's sim holder can easily be pulled out | 13:34 |
| ErwinJunge | Hurrian: That sounds bad | 13:34 |
| Hurrian | erwinjunge, no problems here | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | it locks into place normally | 13:35 |
| ErwinJunge | DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG: I've never replaced the sim here though and the problem randomly started about a month ago, doesn't seem like it could be a contact issue to me. | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | but if i wanted to remove the holder, i can easily do so | 13:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: neither to me | 13:36 |
| ErwinJunge | "randomly" *might* mean "after I dropped the phone" | 13:36 |
| ErwinJunge | Not sure about causation there though, not even sure if the problem existed before I dropped it | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway I'd assume prior to doing hot air reflow operation, your friend checked the SIM and maybe also removed it prior to shooting 250° air on the place where it had been ;-P So any contact problems should've been noticed by him | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Err | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | you were meaning bad contacts on the phone chipset | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Mine is also randomly going missing - but only if it's switched to 2G | 13:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hey, that's pretty much giving a good clue what's broken, eh? | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I can see what 2g mode not working would be caused by - in principle. | 13:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | But 'sim missing' type errors are unclear. | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | err yup | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, got distracted by strange events next to my right eye | 13:41 |
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| ErwinJunge | meh, so essentially there's nothing I can do to fix this, apart from playing Russian roulette with Nokia Care... | 13:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | either that, or find a repair shop with sombody who really got a clue how to *repair* things (incl diagnostics and using proper testing tools) | 13:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Which you don't get | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Even nokia techs don't get. | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | hard to find | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | You'd really want datasheets of rapuyama/.. | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I would be surprised if those are available to any repair centre anywhere. | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, not really. Schematics might suffice to spot a cold solder joint | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - yes | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle. | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | but yeah, with e.g JTAG it'd be way simpler | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | boundary scan | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | But this is a _HARD_ debugging problem, and I'd not be surprised at it taking ages. | 13:47 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders opening it up and poking stuff | 13:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Even that's really annoying, as it often requires a powercucle | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | So ~60s between probes | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 13:48 |
| ErwinJunge | Considering that time == money and specialized time == loads of money, that's not really an economically viable option :) | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 13:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | esp given the fact you already did a blind reflow | 13:49 |
| ErwinJunge | Ah well, it's not a very large problem (yet), so I guess I'll have to learn to live with it. Worst case scenario, I'll get a dumbphone with bluetooth and figure out how to tether the internet to the N900 ;) | 13:51 |
| ErwinJunge | Or get a usb dongle and use h-e-n actively ;) | 13:51 |
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| ErwinJunge | Thanks for all the technical help, again. You're really an invaluable resource to this community. | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF?! for ((i=0, i<15, i++)); do echo -e "If you can't see the email below, copy and paste this URL into your web browser. \n You've been invited to Qt Developer days 2011. Please click this link http://qt.nokia.com/qtdevdays2011 \n Thank you."; done | mail -s "Sign up for Qt Developer Days and save EUR 150" <DocScrutinizer@launchpad-account.nokia> | 13:56 |
| ErwinJunge | ? | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | nokia sending me an utterly silly mail | 13:57 |
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| ErwinJunge | From that website: "Gain the know-how to code stunning mobile apps with Qt on MeeGo (Nokia N9) and Symbian" | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | consisting of nothing else but 15 times the same text as <see above> | 13:58 |
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| ErwinJunge | Haha, funny | 13:58 |
| ErwinJunge | Didn't they drop Qt? | 13:58 |
| ruskie | but what will run on meltemi then if they drop it? | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Register now for all 3 days and save EUR 150 Now in its eighth year, Qt Developer Days is the best place to learn, share, and build your Qt expertise and develop relationships within the Qt community. The event’s dedicated Qt mobile training offers developers and UI designers skills to harness the large Qt for mobile opportunity today, and the future opportunity offered by the Nokia 'Qt for the next billion' strategy. | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | From today | 14:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tail of msg, just truncating part of header (with to etc): http://paste.debian.net/134271/ | 14:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course they also send the regular developer newsletter, twice each time, with 1..2 days in between, to same email addr - and I have no clue how to find out what's the second account that does this, or how to otherwise deal with it | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously that infra is based on the assumption that email addr was a unambiguous pointer to *one* account | 14:11 |
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| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: nothing in the header to give a clue? | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | nuttin | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, some msg ID | 14:44 |
| edheldil | you could be able to see the email it is really sent to in a header Delivered-To:, I think | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, no difference it that one either | 14:45 |
| edheldil | then possibly they have a list of "people who signed for the newsletter" and another "people who we will spam regardless" and did not bother to uniqify them | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | and clicking the "opt out" link gets me to the login page where I need to know my account name :-P | 14:47 |
| edheldil | eh, opt outs ... | 14:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Is anyone aware ofthe general procedure in the UK for warranty returns if I can't easily get to a nokia care centre? | 15:49 |
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| MohammadAG | Attendees will see the future of Qt including Qt 5, the next generation of Qt Quick, and of course the stunning new Qt-powered Nokia N9. | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG | who wants to bet they'll have an empty stand with a label "The future of the Qt-powered Nokia N9"? | 15:52 |
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| jiero | 乁S | 15:53 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, do check out FMTX related stuff on the N9 when you get it :p | 15:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer; Also - maybe ask about extra certs | 16:05 |
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| m4yer | hey, I've got a N900 related question, my battery lasts only for about 5-6h (in idle); because I thought it was a problem with a package, I reflashed today, but still no differences ... how likly is it, that my battery is (after 1 year) simply broken? | 16:13 |
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| auenf | quite likely | 16:14 |
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| m4yer | thx, I feared that, just wanted to ask in case i overlooked something obvious. | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - some activiries may drain it faster than others. | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Misconfigurations of yours, or of ohters. | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - if your cell-provider breaks their configuration a little bit, causing you to continually do stuff with the cell-towers. | 16:20 |
| jiero | Wow, voice help system looks COOL - good job Apple. | 16:20 |
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| m4yer | but just laying there with defaults/ freshly reflashed? and about 3 weeks ago it lasted that way ~3 days .. I fear it ran into deep discharge during my holydays ... | 16:21 |
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| bebna | m4yer: get a secand battery, it isn't expensive and u can check if this misbehavior is based on the phone or from the original battery | 16:26 |
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| bebna | m4yer: and if u get at the and everything working u have a emergency power | 16:26 |
| bebna | *pack | 16:27 |
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| m4yer | thx bebna, thats my new plan ;) | 16:27 |
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| m4yer | just wondering, on amazon(.de) there are batteries from 3 - 25€ ... :D | 16:28 |
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| edheldil | m4yer: you can also check with top or powertop if some process is eating your battery, although it seems less likely if it's a fresh reflash | 16:33 |
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| m4yer | edheldil: looks all normal ( 5-8% hildon-desktop but nothing else more interessting ..) | 16:35 |
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| ErwinJunge | Hm.... my screen just froze after hanging up a call (mid through the call closing animation). I can still ssh in though and no process is using the cpu. Odd. It's completely unresponsive though (except via ssh). | 17:42 |
| amiconn | There's also a chance that undervolting may cause extra battery drain | 17:42 |
| amiconn | No kidding - I actually experienced this. | 17:43 |
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| amiconn | Running PK, set to 750 MHz and "ULV". CPU worked fine with those parameters, but I wondered why blessn900 always crashed when caclulating stuff | 17:44 |
| amiconn | After such a crash, my battery lasted only half a day even with little use | 17:45 |
| amiconn | Then I played around with vlc and it also crashed often... after that, I experimented a bit and found that while my CPU works fine at "ULV", the DSP does not | 17:45 |
| amiconn | And when an app crashed due to DSP errors, apparently the DSP didn't stop, so it drained the battery | 17:46 |
| amiconn | Now I'm running the "LV" profile, and it didn't happen again so far | 17:47 |
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| ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/05/apple_predicted_siri_in_1987/ <_- lol | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | amiconn: surprise surprise! :-D - thanks anyway for elaborating on this, nobody believes me if I tell such things can happen, as I didn't actually try it. | 18:25 |
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| merlin1991 | well DocScrutinizer you're a bot, so obviously you have no experience in the field ;) | 18:27 |
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| MohammadAG | merlin1991, yeah, abill_uk and Matan have the experience, not DocScrutinizer51 | 18:35 |
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| amiconn | DocScrutinizer: Using the LV profile now has the advantage that I can even go up to 805 MHz for the CPU (this setting still doesn't overclock the DSP) without making it unstable. | 18:39 |
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| amiconn | Otoh I am wondering how other can overclock theirs to >1 GHz. Apparently the chips differ quite a bit | 18:42 |
| NIN101 | fck all about the size of mtd4. | 18:42 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, i figured out what was causing my sim to not be picked up | 18:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i had upgraded libffi because my new libxml++ needed it, but I compiled it with the newer gcc | 18:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | libffi is a dependency for libsim0 | 18:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so I guess it wasnt liking the new library | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | plausible | 18:58 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i tested that just now, installed my newer libffi, lost sim card | 18:59 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | rolled back, worked again | 18:59 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | installing the same package compiled with gcc 4.2 seems to fix it | 19:12 |
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| joejoe | hi, i try to figure out how to set usb networking for n900 with network manager on ubuntu 11.10. On ubuntu 11.04 it is working out of box. | 19:18 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | joejoe, are you using mad developer for usb networking? | 19:20 |
| joejoe | yes | 19:23 |
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| joejoe | the n900 creates only "Mobile broadband" item in network manager applet | 19:23 |
| joejoe | the n950 creates both "Mobile broadband" and "Wired" connection | 19:24 |
| joejoe | the cdc_ether module is loaded | 19:24 |
| joejoe | and "/sbin/ifconfig -a" shows usb0 device and it is possible to start it from command line "/sbin/ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 up" | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: nice find :-D | 20:00 |
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| * slonopotamus blows his mind up by reading through tsc2301 driver source | 20:16 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | poof, and there he's gone :-P | 20:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no wonder his head exploded, the short description is bizarre enough http://www.ti.com/product/tsc2301 controller for resistive 4wire touchpanels WITH BUILTIN AUDIO(!) | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh and yet another source for a random temperature reading | 21:02 |
| ruskie | hehe | 21:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what a luck we got http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Touchscreen a 2005 on N900 :-P | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | and actually I wonder why slono was reading the tsc2301 driver source, I can't see which device would use that chip | 21:08 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | whats the color depth for maemo, 16 or 24 bit? | 21:20 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/05/nokia_meltemi_for_s40/ | 21:20 |
| RST38h | yeah, no new data | 21:21 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, someone from 2301 obviously | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sorry you lost me | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | tsc2005 - from 2005... | 21:30 |
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| amiconn | Melt me?? | 21:44 |
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| Sicelo | Sazpaimon_: 16, afaik | 21:51 |
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| MohammadAG | \ | 22:06 |
| MohammadAG | sorry about that | 22:07 |
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| NIN101 | a kexec based menu to boot into other OSs would be very cool stuff. | 22:10 |
| NIN101 | for the record, with a 2.6.37 meego kernel i was able to kexec the meego kernel and it booted for example debian on sd very fine. but maemo(with powerkernel) oopsed. Of course it couldn't be that easy :-/. | 22:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yeah, 16 bit it is | 22:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | lightspark is designed to only work with 24-bit egl configs | 22:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so the shaders and renderers are going to have to be tweaked | 22:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they all assume 8bit RGB | 22:12 |
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| faina | NIN101: What about using the meego u-boot loader to load meego kernel+debian off of sd card? | 22:22 |
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| NIN101 | u-boot is ok., and of course this is possible. | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | what's lightspark? | 22:23 |
| NIN101 | but it's also not the most user friendly software out there :-) | 22:23 |
| faina | To me it had the advantage, that it'll fall back to the default OS if the SD card isn't plugged in. | 22:23 |
| faina | good point. | 22:23 |
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