IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-10-05

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luke-jrit would be interesting if someone set up a SMS XMPP gateway <.<00:45
luke-jrbypassing SMS when both numbers are connected to it possibly00:45
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fainathat seems like an alteration to the xmpp servers routing protocol? Also how would the sms get back to the xmpp server?00:48
fainaI know there's internet to sms gateways for some mobile phone networks.00:48
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luke-jrfaina: the same way people reply to Google Voice SMS00:50
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fainaluke-jr: I think it requires the cooperation of the mobile phone network.
fainaIt does look like there are companies that'll sell you 2-way sms services though00:56
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DocScrutinizeryou got problems :-P  the question is: who's going to *pay* for all those SMS?01:37
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fainaYeah, that's why my solution is don't use SMSes but instead stay connected to my jabber server 24/701:40
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DocScrutinizerI stay on irc 24/7, and I could stay on my public server box 24/7 as well (actually I do with IRC bouncer ZNC already)01:42
fainaI'm still trying to decide if I like IRC...01:42
DocScrutinizerand my gsm carrier offers SMS notification on inbound email for free01:43
DocScrutinizerI for ure like it better than jabber01:44
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fainathe jabber group chat has some serious issues.01:44
fainabut for point-to-point jabber seems a bit more straight forward?01:44
DocScrutinizerhow so?01:45
DocScrutinizerno issues with /query faina, or whomever I want to reach. As long as I know that person is logged in to a certain IRC network...01:46
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DocScrutinizerand I know the nickname01:46
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DocScrutinizerand after all there's still SIP as well, has also a chat function01:48
DocScrutinizeraah I forgot I'm 24/7 online with my SIP account of course01:48
DocScrutinizerand via 3G SIP VoIP even works quite well with my carrier01:49
DocScrutinizermaybe a bit laggy01:50
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DocScrutinizermoo chem|st01:51
chem|stjabber has proper encryption layers...01:51
chem|stbut most clients do not support the full spectrum of jabber so who cares01:52
DocScrutinizerI rarely need encrypted realtime duplex communication01:52
chem|stthats you...01:52
chem|stwhat about terrorists?01:53
DocScrutinizeryup, and if I'd need, there's ZRTP01:53
chem|stbad joke I know01:53
DocScrutinizerterrorists???? will not tuch encryption with a 10 feet pole usually, as that is like shouting "watch here, I'm going to do nasty"01:54
* faina distracted by coworkers01:55
DocScrutinizerterrorists use steganography or simple old codewords01:55
DocScrutinizeror nothing of all that, as they are stupid as a cut down tree - otherwise they were not interested in terrorism01:57
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chem|stoff to bed... happy easter!01:58
DocScrutinizerand a merry new year01:58
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fainaDocScrutinizer: /query <username> opens up a direct message with them?02:16
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DocScrutinizeryou also can /query with infobot ;-)02:25
infobottalk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)02:25
fainaone other question... the /query rooms are they actually treated as rooms or as just as extra buffers? (Though that might be better asked in #emacs)02:26
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fainaI think I've seen an infobot in other channels?02:26
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fainaSomone/thing in #python remaps pastebins02:27
DocScrutinizerqueries are (in)direct client to client, they are not like rooms that can get joined by other 3rd parties02:27
infobotI'm on 120 channels: #debian/1071, #meego/397, #maemo/324, #kde/323, #asterisk/204, #gsoc/174, #webos-internals/172, #wowuidev/159, #wowace/138, #oe/137, #harmattan/121, #wowhead/120, #openmoko/103, #htc-linux/75, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #uclibc/63, #tomcat/63, #utah/60, #bzflag/59, #curseforge/55, #asterisk-dev/54, #diablofans/53, #sc2mapster/48, #slug/46, #edev/43, #riftuidev/42, #/37, #uphpu/35, #elinux/31, #norganna/29, #gllug/24, ##kierra/24, ...02:27
infoboti've cached 4932 users, 3589 unique users, distributed over 120 channels.02:27
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fainaAh, is there a way to find what channels there are?02:28
DocScrutinizeryup, usually your client has a command for that02:28
fainais there a way to get a count before you do the query?02:28
DocScrutinizersth like /channels or /chanlist or dunno02:28
fainaA long time ago I tried a channel list (I think) and got bored of watching my screen scroll for several minutes02:29
DocScrutinizerprobably not, as even my client warns me about the traffic that "F5" will cause02:29
DocScrutinizeryup, probably several 1000s of channels02:29
DocScrutinizerthere's an URL / a webpage somewhere02:30
DocScrutinizersupposed to list all freenode channels02:30
DocScrutinizerprobably next to freenode web frontend02:30
DocScrutinizeraka gateway02:31
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fainaI wonder what the sort order is.02:32
fainaAh users....02:32
fainaNo wonder #ubuntu is never quiet02:32
DocScrutinizer>>Searched for ''. 10864 matching entries found.<< :-D02:33
fainasome channels on that list include # and some don't? I thought all irc channel names started with #02:33
DocScrutinizersome start with ##02:37
fainathe ## is a temporary channel?02:37
DocScrutinizersomewhat, yes02:37
DocScrutinizernon-official or whatever channels. You probably mustn't create #ibm, but you may create ##ibm02:38
Sc0rpiusthere are also local channels that start with &02:39
Sc0rpiusbut I don't think Freenode supports that02:39
Sc0rpiusyeah in IRC networks you can create a server local channel that are not network wide channel02:39
Sc0rpiusit only exists in the server you're connected02:39
Sc0rpiusyou can try in a network like EFnet something like: /join &test02:40
Sc0rpiusand it will work.02:40
DocScrutinizerooh, a voluntary netsplit? nice ;-P02:40
Sc0rpiusmy point is not all channels start with # :P02:40
DocScrutinizerthe fact I never know where will connect me to will somewhat defeat the purpose of those local channels ;-)02:41
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DocScrutinizerfaina: if you ever run across a command like /writeall or /amsg or sth like that - beware, it sends to all channels you're logged in and that will make freenode ban you for a week or two02:43
fainaah thank you02:43
fainathough right now I'm only logged into 2-4 channels02:43
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fainaI can see the temptation to log into scores though.02:44
DocScrutinizermight suffice, depending on size of the channels02:44
fainaah ok.02:44
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fainaAlso ... do you ever suffer from channel overload?02:44
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DocScrutinizeridoru was the nasty bot doing that02:45
DocScrutinizerif you send to several channels where idoru is a user, you get klined02:45
DocScrutinizerfaina: channel overload? like join-throttling?02:46
fainais there a way to recognize bots?02:46
DocScrutinizernot reallya02:46
fainamore ... puny human brain being overloaded with too many different threads of conversation02:46
DocScrutinizerexcept Turing test ;-D02:46
DocScrutinizersure, all the time02:46
fainaBots are getting closer and closer to passing that test.02:47
DocScrutinizerthe trick is to ruthlessly ignore when things don't sound interesting02:47
infobotI already passed it :)02:48
fainaOne of the things that seems appealing of IRC over something like twitter... is twitter will helpfully keep track of all the messages, including when you werent there. so you end up further and further behind.02:49
fainaIRC was nice because when I was disconnected I could pretend it doesn't exist02:49
DocScrutinizeror you look at
DocScrutinizerbut yeah, irc is inherently volatile02:50
fainaNooooo! ;) (yeah I've looked at that to see what someone was currently talking about while I was out)02:50
fainaalso not all channels log02:51
fainathank you for the pointers to irc culture02:53
DocScrutinizerif you don't mind (I like to read that one myself every now and then):02:54
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.02:54
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Sazpaimon_so I just installed libgcc1, libstdc++6, and gcc4.4-base from ubuntu lucid to my N90002:54
infobothmm... question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
Sazpaimon_there were no conflicts02:54
Sazpaimon_no errors02:54
Sazpaimon_and now lightspark is starting02:54
Sazpaimon_i hope I didn't break anything else though02:54
fainaas long as there wasn't already a libgcc1 / libstdc++6 it should be good02:55
Sazpaimon_there was02:55
Sazpaimon_it replaced them02:55
Sazpaimon_everything is still running fine02:56
fainahave you rebooted the phone?02:56
Sazpaimon_no not yet, pretty sure I'm about to reflash it02:56
fainaLinux doesn't delete files until all of the open file handles have been closed02:56
DocScrutinizeryou installed a new libgcc etc? possibly a x86 based one?02:56
Sazpaimon_DocScrutinizer, why would I do that02:56
fainaso if something had already opened the old libgcc1 open, it should still have a handle to it02:56
Sazpaimon_why would dpkg allow that02:56
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fainadpkg should toss a warning if the architecture doesn't match02:57
DocScrutinizerfaina: exactly. Next boot goes BOOM02:57
Sazpaimon_Im going to reboot now and see what happens02:57
DocScrutinizerprepare for bootloop02:58
fainathough... there is something you could do02:58
Sazpaimon_lucid's armel libstdc++6 is linked to 2.4>=libc602:58
fainaextract just the so from the old version and drop it in place02:58
DocScrutinizersure, do a backup with backupmenu. But you should've done that before you replaced system libs02:58
fainae.g. so you'd have libgcc1.x.y and libgcc1.a.b02:58
Sazpaimon_DocScrutinizer, why, I only will need to reflash rootfs02:58
* DocScrutinizer shrugs02:59
DocScrutinizeryour reflash, not mine :-)02:59
Sazpaimon_yeah, it seems suck on the bootup lights02:59
Sazpaimon_oh well, what can you do03:00
DocScrutinizermay I ask what'S the purpose of this experiment?03:00
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Sazpaimon_oh wait, it started03:00
Sazpaimon_DocScrutinizer, lightspark only works on gcc 4.403:00
Sazpaimon_so I had to compile it with that03:00
Sazpaimon_naturally this breaks compatabiity on the device03:00
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Sazpaimon_anyway, the OS started up03:01
Sazpaimon_looks fine, but its not detecting my sim card now03:01
DocScrutinizerumm, so you probably could have proper symlinks to the according matching lib versions and nothing bad would happen if all is done correctly03:01
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Sazpaimon_you mean package the program with its own
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DocScrutinizerdepending on lightspark linking you also could place the gcc4.4 locally into lightspark's dir03:02
Sazpaimon_DocScrutinizer, what do you mean with gcc4.403:03
Sazpaimon_i meant that it requires gcc4.4 to build03:03
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DocScrutinizererr I meant the libs you need03:04
DocScrutinizerman ld-linux|less +'/The shared libraries needed by the program are searched for'03:04
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Sazpaimon_yeah that might work, since the libc6 version is fine03:05
DocScrutinizer>>  understands the string $ORIGIN (or equivalently ${ORIGIN}) in an       rpath specification (DT_RPATH or DT_RUNPATH) to mean the directory con-       taining  the  application  executable.  Thus, an application located in       somedir/app could be compiled with gcc  -Wl,-rpath,'$ORIGIN/../lib'  so       that  it  finds  an  associated shared library in somedir/lib no matter       where somedir is located in the directory hierarchy.03:06
DocScrutinizer  This  facilitates       the  creation  of  "turn-key"  applications  that  do  not  need  to be       installed into special directories, but can instead  be  unpacked  into       any directory and still find their own shared libraries.<<03:06
Sazpaimon_I'll roll back the installation of libstdc++6 because it seems to have broken the detection of the sim card03:06
Sazpaimon_surprisngly everything else works03:07
Sazpaimon_unless its a fluke that the sim card isnt getting detected03:07
DocScrutinizerI guess there's not that much of core system that's coded in c++03:09
Sazpaimon_opera ran fine, I'm pretty sure that's coded in c++03:09
Sazpaimon_so did microb03:09
Sazpaimon_but the ABI probably wasnt backward compatible enough03:10
DocScrutinizerbasically if a lib isn't abi compatible, it mustn't use same version number and thus won't get used by apps linked against the older version03:11
Sazpaimon_how do I request a specific version number with apt again?03:12
DocScrutinizererr app=version, sth like that03:12
fainaI wonder what the output of ldd on microb would be. (Not sure where the executable is)03:13
DocScrutinizer /usr/bin/apt-get install hildon-desktop=1:2.2.140-1+0m503:13
Sazpaimon_okay so I want libstdc++6=4.2.1-4maemo13+0m503:13
DocScrutinizer  might help03:18
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DocScrutinizer>>When a new version of a library is binary-incompatible with the old one the soname needs to change.<<03:19
DocScrutinizer>>For C++ (and other languages supporting compiled-in templates and/or compiled dispatched methods), the situation is trickier. All of the above issues apply, plus many more issues. The reason is that some information is implemented ``under the covers'' in the compiled code, resulting in dependencies that may not be obvious if you don't know how C++ is typically implemented.<<03:21
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Sazpaimon_so I rolloed back my libstdc++604:17
Sazpaimon_and my sim card still isnt beinf detected04:17
Sazpaimon_anything I can do before I reflash?04:17
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Sazpaimon_DocScrutinizer, ping04:28
Sazpaimon_[21:16] <Sazpaimon_> uh04:29
Sazpaimon_[21:17] <Sazpaimon_> so I rolloed back my libstdc++604:29
Sazpaimon_[21:17] <Sazpaimon_> and my sim card still isnt beinf detected04:29
Sazpaimon_[21:17] <Sazpaimon_> anything I can do before I reflash?04:29
DocScrutinizergiven the history I'd strongly suggest a reflash, prior to anything else04:29
Sazpaimon_can I reflash on the device itself, or is that just for the kernel04:30
DocScrutinizeryou're still free to do a proper backup first, so you could roll back, for whatever purpose04:30
Sazpaimon_I dont have any computers handy with the drivers installed04:30
DocScrutinizererr, rootfs can't get reflashed without PC and USB04:30
Sazpaimon_thought as much04:30
DocScrutinizerat least this time of day I can't figure how to do it04:31
Sazpaimon_my menu->settings->about also isnt showing an imei04:32
DocScrutinizerreflash (or reinstall linisi, rtcom-dunno-what rtc)04:33
Sazpaimon_I'll try it04:35
DocScrutinizerprobably the most direct way to talk to modem is via pnatd04:35
DocScrutinizershould talk to libisi, and libisi will talk to the modem aiui04:36
DocScrutinizerAAAH, and GPS isn't possible without cellmo working04:37
DocScrutinizer(but then a GPS that can't get a fix isn't anything special)04:38
DocScrutinizerpnatd: AT<enter> ->OK04:39
DocScrutinizer-->modem alive04:39
Sazpaimon_I got the same result04:40
DocScrutinizerhmm, so somebody isn't talking nicely to modem, to make it detect and register the SIM04:40
DocScrutinizeror the SIM (or anything in modem) is broken04:41
Sazpaimon_I tried a second sim04:41
Sazpaimon_i dont think changing the libstdc++ library would brick the modem04:41
DocScrutinizerI'm quite sure the process that asks for PIN and talks to cellmo to enable GSM is dead, or blows chunks04:42
DocScrutinizeraiui this process also looks somewhere in gconf, or CAL, to get the PIN when set to "don't ask", any of that could have been shot down by libstdc++04:44
DocScrutinizerpossibly even wrote bogus data to the storage, and now it doesn't work anymore even with a perfect lib04:45
Sazpaimon_so a fresh rootfs is probably my only option04:45
DocScrutinizeryour best option for sure04:46
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DocScrutinizerwait a second04:46
Sazpaimon_I'm listening04:48
DocScrutinizernever mind, can't find it right now. Probably a silly idea anyway04:49
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DocScrutinizerthought about asking modem via AT about some SIM detail, oder modem detail (like IMEI)04:49
DocScrutinizerbut what would that tell us?04:49
DocScrutinizerif it works we know it's *probably* the rootfs and some process(-config) there, and if it doesn'T work we don't know anything04:50
pabs3can you run ldd over the binaries and libs? that might be able to find something?04:51
Sazpaimon_that isnt the issue, I dont think04:52
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SpeedEvilYou can reflash the device using an install of meego on the SD card and the bootloader installed.04:57
SpeedEvilI forget how04:57
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DocScrutinizerhmmhmm, maybe this start update-mode or what it's been caled, to enable --local05:07
DocScrutinizerbut then this would require flasher binary running on meego05:08
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DocScrutinizersure you could restore a backup (or an unpacked rootfs image, for that) from a auxiliary system that's not even mounting the NAND05:09
DocScrutinizervia mtd_debug, or flasherase & nandwrite05:10
DocScrutinizerI'd recommend good ol'reflashing, the most basic method05:11
DocScrutinizeresp since that would also deal with NOLO and cellmo-FW, just in case05:12
DocScrutinizerand (the big mytery) probably even with repartitioning NAND mtdparts05:13
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Sazpaimon_still is taking some time to start up06:13
Sazpaimon_it picked up my network now, though06:16
Sazpaimon_but my app database is gone06:17
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Sazpaimon_i thought flashing rootfs doesnt effect that06:18
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, ping10:08
psycho_oreosenlighten me please, the N900 came from factory as overclocked? I never recall seeing N900 at 600MHz is overclocked :)10:09
DocScrutinizerit is, basically. TI says so by stating 100.000h at any clock speed, but only 23.000h at 600MHz10:11
psycho_oreoshmm crap10:11
DocScrutinizerevery other 50MHz probably will half that timespan10:11
Mark__TDocScrutinizer: so 700MHz is 100000h too :-P10:12
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DocScrutinizerI more think it will be 5000h@700MHz10:12
psycho_oreosI'm sure even with the poor wording TI chose to document with, any frequency above 600MHz will shorten the life span10:13
DocScrutinizerand maybe 100@100010:13
psycho_oreosand what happened, rather which factoid trigger was it that shows the three links to people with overclocked (and now damaged) N900?10:14
psycho_oreosI thought it was ~overclock10:14
psycho_oreoserr ~overclocking10:14
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infobotmethinks omap-oc is  read that!, or and this
psycho_oreosahh thanks :D10:15
DocScrutinizermy "OC is 1337" link in signature of tmo as well10:16
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psycho_oreostrying to grill this user:
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robbiethe1st.join #wine11:11
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DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: why?12:15
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DocScrutinizermoo chem|st :-)12:15
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-05 10:11:28] <robbiethe1st> .join #wine12:15
robbiethe1stBecause . != /12:15
robbiethe1stI suppose . could equal / if you're in the root directory though...12:17
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Mark__Tprobably the most annoying question, but how do I solve this
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ruskienever seen that before12:40
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Mark__Tthis is my sources.list:
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psycho_oreoscheck line 6 in your second paste :12:44
psycho_oreos:p against http://repository.maemo.org12:45
Mark__Tpsycho_oreos: Thx, I tend do get lost at talks.maemo.org12:45
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Mark__Tpsycho_oreos: iirc I had something like that already a while back, but mamory faded12:48
psycho_oreosMark__T, have a look at what I just wrote before you typed all that12:48
Mark__TI think I had freemantle-1.2 somewhere12:48
psycho_oreosyour problem was already indicated12:48
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Mark__Tpsycho_oreos: doing another apt-date update already, only waiting, thx for helping out12:52
RST38hMiramax CEO: Apple Is a Bigger Threat To The Music Industry Than Piracy12:52
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RST38hTo software industry as well, I might add12:54
HurrianRST38h, if so, then they're a threat to hw industry too12:55
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DocScrutinizerthe only threat to music industry is their inability to adopt contemporary concepts of content deployment - plus of course the whole casted-boygroup etc idea producing mountain high heaps of noise junk that they think users should even *pay* for.13:02
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ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: Remember a while ago I told you about my sim going missing randomly and you told me to let someone do hot air reflow? Didn't work, any other ideas? :)13:11
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: sorry, no13:12
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ErwinJungeNo problem, was worth a try asking you though13:12
DocScrutinizersure thing13:12
ErwinJungeMy usb port is securely fixed now though, so that's a small plus13:13
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MohammadAGstuff a paper above the sim13:21
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ErwinJungeMohammadAG: How much paper? i.e. how thick? A single layer of regular printer paper?13:29
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MohammadAGErwinJunge, one, make two layers out of it13:31
DocScrutinizerprobably highly useless13:31
HurrianMohammadAG, what is kernel-thumb2?13:32
ErwinJungeMohammadAG: Thanks, I'll try it13:32
DocScrutinizerIF it were a contact problem, then bending contact springs outward carefully would help way better13:32
MohammadAGHurrian, something we tried for Ubuntu 10.1013:33
MohammadAGcrashed a lot on maemo13:33
DocScrutinizeras in my sim holder slot at least there's not even space to have another 2 layers of paper13:33
MohammadAGmine can hold 3 :P13:33
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Hurrianmy n900's sim holder can easily be pulled out13:34
ErwinJungeHurrian: That sounds bad13:34
Hurrianerwinjunge, no problems here13:35
Hurrianit locks into place normally13:35
ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer, MohammadAG: I've never replaced the sim here though and the problem randomly started about a month ago, doesn't seem like it could be a contact issue to me.13:35
Hurrianbut if i wanted to remove the holder, i can easily do so13:35
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DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: neither to me13:36
ErwinJunge"randomly" *might* mean "after I dropped the phone"13:36
ErwinJungeNot sure about causation there though, not even sure if the problem existed before I dropped it13:36
DocScrutinizeranyway I'd assume prior to doing  hot air reflow operation, your friend checked the SIM and maybe also removed it prior to shooting 250° air on the place where it had been ;-P So any contact problems should've been noticed by him13:37
SpeedEvilyou were meaning bad contacts on the phone chipset13:38
SpeedEvilMine is also randomly going missing - but only if it's switched to 2G13:38
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DocScrutinizerhey, that's pretty much giving a good clue what's broken, eh?13:39
SpeedEvilI can see what 2g mode not working would be caused by - in principle.13:40
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SpeedEvilBut 'sim missing' type errors are unclear.13:40
DocScrutinizererr yup13:40
DocScrutinizersorry, got distracted by strange events next to my right eye13:41
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ErwinJungemeh, so essentially there's nothing I can do to fix this, apart from playing Russian roulette with Nokia Care...13:42
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DocScrutinizereither that, or find a repair shop with sombody who really got a clue how to *repair* things (incl diagnostics and using proper testing tools)13:44
SpeedEvilWhich you don't get13:45
SpeedEvilEven nokia techs don't get.13:45
DocScrutinizerhard to find13:45
SpeedEvilYou'd really want datasheets of rapuyama/..13:45
SpeedEvilI would be surprised if those are available to any repair centre anywhere.13:46
DocScrutinizerhmm, not really. Schematics might suffice to spot a cold solder joint13:46
SpeedEvilWell - yes13:46
SpeedEvilIn principle.13:46
DocScrutinizerbut yeah, with e.g JTAG it'd be way simpler13:47
DocScrutinizerboundary scan13:47
SpeedEvilBut this is a _HARD_ debugging problem, and I'd not be surprised at it taking ages.13:47
* SpeedEvil ponders opening it up and poking stuff13:48
SpeedEvilEven that's really annoying, as it often requires a powercucle13:48
SpeedEvilSo ~60s between probes13:48
ErwinJungeConsidering that time == money and specialized time == loads of money, that's not really an economically viable option :)13:48
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DocScrutinizeresp given the fact you already did a blind reflow13:49
ErwinJungeAh well, it's not a very large problem (yet), so I guess I'll have to learn to live with it. Worst case scenario, I'll get a dumbphone with bluetooth and figure out how to tether the internet to the N900 ;)13:51
ErwinJungeOr get a usb dongle and use h-e-n actively ;)13:51
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ErwinJungeThanks for all the technical help, again. You're really an invaluable resource to this community.13:52
DocScrutinizerWTF?!     for ((i=0, i<15, i++)); do echo -e "If you can't see the email below, copy and paste this URL into your web browser. \n You've been invited to Qt Developer days 2011. Please click this link \n Thank you."; done | mail -s "Sign up for Qt Developer Days and save EUR 150" <>13:56
DocScrutinizernokia sending me an utterly silly mail13:57
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ErwinJungeFrom that website: "Gain the know-how to code stunning mobile apps with Qt on MeeGo (Nokia N9) and Symbian"13:58
DocScrutinizerconsisting of nothing else but 15 times the same text as <see above>13:58
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ErwinJungeHaha, funny13:58
ErwinJungeDidn't they drop Qt?13:58
ruskiebut what will run on meltemi then if they drop it?13:59
SpeedEvilRegister now for all 3 days and save EUR 150    Now in its eighth year, Qt Developer Days is the best place to learn, share, and build your Qt expertise and develop relationships within the Qt community. The event’s dedicated Qt mobile training offers developers and UI designers skills to harness the large Qt for mobile opportunity today, and the future opportunity offered by the Nokia 'Qt for the next billion' strategy.14:00
SpeedEvilFrom today14:00
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DocScrutinizertail of msg, just truncating part of header (with to etc):
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DocScrutinizerof course they also send the regular developer newsletter, twice each time, with 1..2 days in between, to same email addr - and I have no clue how to find out what's the second account that does this, or how to otherwise deal with it14:09
DocScrutinizerobviously that infra is based on the assumption that email addr was a unambiguous pointer to *one* account14:11
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edheldilDocScrutinizer:  nothing in the header to give a clue?14:43
DocScrutinizerwell, some msg ID14:44
edheldilyou could be able to see the email it is really sent to in a header Delivered-To:, I think14:45
DocScrutinizernope, no difference it that one either14:45
edheldilthen possibly they have a list of "people who signed for the newsletter" and another "people who we will spam regardless" and did not bother to uniqify them14:46
DocScrutinizerand clicking the "opt out" link gets me to the login page where I need to know my account name :-P14:47
edheldileh, opt outs ...14:48
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SpeedEvilIs anyone aware ofthe general procedure in the UK for warranty returns if I can't easily get to a nokia care centre?15:49
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MohammadAGAttendees will see the future of Qt including Qt 5, the next generation of Qt Quick, and of course the stunning new Qt-powered Nokia N9.15:52
MohammadAGwho wants to bet they'll have an empty stand with a label "The future of the Qt-powered Nokia N9"?15:52
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, do check out FMTX related stuff on the N9 when you get it :p15:54
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer; Also - maybe ask about extra certs16:05
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m4yerhey, I've got a N900 related question, my battery lasts only for about 5-6h (in idle); because I thought it was a problem with a package, I reflashed today, but still no differences ... how likly is it, that my battery is (after 1 year) simply broken?16:13
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auenfquite likely16:14
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m4yerthx, I feared that, just wanted to ask in case i overlooked something obvious.16:16
SpeedEvilAlso - some activiries may drain it faster than others.16:19
SpeedEvilMisconfigurations of yours, or of ohters.16:19
SpeedEvilFor example - if your cell-provider breaks their configuration a little bit, causing you to continually do stuff with the cell-towers.16:20
jieroWow, voice help system looks COOL - good job Apple.16:20
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m4yerbut just laying there with defaults/ freshly reflashed? and about 3 weeks ago it lasted that way ~3 days .. I fear it ran into deep discharge during my holydays ...16:21
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bebnam4yer: get a secand battery, it isn't expensive and u can check if this misbehavior is based on the phone or from the original battery16:26
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bebnam4yer: and if u get at the and everything working u have a emergency power16:26
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m4yerthx bebna, thats my new plan ;)16:27
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m4yerjust wondering, on amazon(.de) there are batteries from 3 - 25€ ... :D16:28
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edheldilm4yer:  you can also check with top or powertop if some process is eating your battery, although it seems less likely if it's a fresh reflash16:33
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m4yeredheldil: looks all normal ( 5-8% hildon-desktop but nothing else more interessting ..)16:35
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ErwinJungeHm.... my screen just froze after hanging up a call (mid through the call closing animation). I can still ssh in though and no process is using the cpu. Odd. It's completely unresponsive though (except via ssh).17:42
amiconnThere's also a chance that undervolting may cause extra battery drain17:42
amiconnNo kidding - I actually experienced this.17:43
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amiconnRunning PK, set to 750 MHz and "ULV". CPU worked fine with those parameters, but I wondered why blessn900 always crashed when caclulating stuff17:44
amiconnAfter such a crash, my battery lasted only half a day even with little use17:45
amiconnThen I played around with vlc and it also crashed often... after that, I experimented a bit and found that while my CPU works fine at "ULV", the DSP does not17:45
amiconnAnd when an app crashed due to DSP errors, apparently the DSP didn't stop, so it drained the battery17:46
amiconnNow I'm running the "LV" profile, and it didn't happen again so far17:47
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ruskie <_- lol18:22
DocScrutinizeramiconn: surprise surprise! :-D - thanks anyway for elaborating on this, nobody believes me if I tell such things can happen, as I didn't actually try it.18:25
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merlin1991well DocScrutinizer you're a bot, so obviously you have no experience in the field ;)18:27
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MohammadAGmerlin1991, yeah, abill_uk and Matan have the experience, not DocScrutinizer5118:35
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amiconnDocScrutinizer: Using the LV profile now has the advantage that I can even go up to 805 MHz for the CPU (this setting still doesn't overclock the DSP) without making it unstable.18:39
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amiconnOtoh I am wondering how other can overclock theirs to >1 GHz. Apparently the chips differ quite a bit18:42
NIN101fck all about the size of mtd4.18:42
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Sazpaimon_DocScrutinizer, i figured out what was causing my sim to not be picked up18:57
Sazpaimon_i had upgraded libffi because my new libxml++ needed it, but I compiled it with the newer gcc18:57
Sazpaimon_libffi is a dependency for libsim018:57
Sazpaimon_so I guess it wasnt liking the new library18:58
Sazpaimon_i tested that just now, installed my newer libffi, lost sim card18:59
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Sazpaimon_rolled back, worked again18:59
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Sazpaimon_installing the same package compiled with gcc 4.2 seems to fix it19:12
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joejoehi, i try to figure out how to set usb networking for n900 with network manager on ubuntu 11.10. On ubuntu 11.04 it is working out of box.19:18
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Sazpaimon_joejoe, are you using mad developer for usb networking?19:20
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joejoethe n900 creates only "Mobile broadband" item in network manager applet19:23
joejoethe n950 creates both "Mobile broadband" and "Wired" connection19:24
joejoethe cdc_ether module is loaded19:24
joejoeand "/sbin/ifconfig -a" shows usb0 device and it is possible to start it from command line "/sbin/ifconfig usb0 up"19:25
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DocScrutinizerSazpaimon_: nice find :-D20:00
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* slonopotamus blows his mind up by reading through tsc2301 driver source20:16
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DocScrutinizerpoof, and there he's gone :-P20:56
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DocScrutinizerno wonder his head exploded, the short description is bizarre enough controller for resistive 4wire touchpanels WITH BUILTIN AUDIO(!)21:00
DocScrutinizeroooh and yet another source for a random temperature reading21:02
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DocScrutinizerwhat a luck we got a 2005 on N900 :-P21:06
DocScrutinizerand actually I wonder why slono was reading the tsc2301 driver source, I can't see which device would use that chip21:08
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Sazpaimon_whats the color depth for maemo, 16 or 24 bit?21:20
RST38hyeah, no new data21:21
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, someone from 2301 obviously21:29
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sorry you lost me21:29
MohammadAGtsc2005 - from 2005...21:30
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amiconnMelt me??21:44
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SiceloSazpaimon_: 16, afaik21:51
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MohammadAGsorry about that22:07
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NIN101a kexec based menu to boot into other OSs would be very cool stuff.22:10
NIN101for the record, with a 2.6.37 meego kernel i was able to kexec the meego kernel and it booted for example debian on sd very fine. but maemo(with powerkernel) oopsed. Of course it couldn't be that easy :-/.22:11
Sazpaimon_yeah, 16 bit it is22:11
Sazpaimon_lightspark is designed to only work with 24-bit egl configs22:11
Sazpaimon_so the shaders and renderers are going to have to be tweaked22:11
Sazpaimon_they all assume 8bit RGB22:12
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fainaNIN101: What about using the meego u-boot loader to load meego kernel+debian off of sd card?22:22
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NIN101u-boot is ok., and of course this is possible.22:23
MohammadAGwhat's lightspark?22:23
NIN101but it's also not the most user friendly software out there :-)22:23
fainaTo me it had the advantage, that it'll fall back to the default OS if the SD card isn't plugged in.22:23
fainagood point.22:23
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Sazpaimon_okay so, I've hit a wall with lightspark23:29
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