| faina | because they're aliases to the current releases? they're symlinks to the current releases | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| faina | debian releases are things like etch, lenny, etc. stable will point at them. | 00:01 |
| faina | Not sure if its better to do the ubuntu -- run a script to update to latest version, or what I remember of debian, at some point they throw the symlink and an apt-get upgrade will replace half your system. | 00:02 |
| amiconn | That's why you should use the release names in sources.list instead of the alias symlinks. It saves you from surprises | 00:03 |
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| faina | Is there an inventory of how much of maemo is still closed source? I just learned about the cssu, and it seems like several large chunks have been replaced? | 00:04 |
| mr_jrt | Quite. I usually track testing though, so surprises are usually single-items like KDE3->4 | 00:05 |
| mr_jrt | Yes. | 00:05 |
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| NIN101 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages | 00:06 |
| faina | NIN101: thank you | 00:06 |
| mr_jrt | NIN101 found the link beofre me ;) | 00:07 |
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| faina | is there a definition to the color code? | 00:08 |
| mr_jrt | I have vague plans to look at the rtcom stuff eventually. | 00:09 |
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| faina | Updating the bluetooth stack'd be nice, there's a bug somewhere in it that's preventing syncevolution from working. | 00:10 |
| mr_jrt | I think red is license issues and green is open replacement | 00:10 |
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| faina | Ah yes, they all say "LGPL" but no source. | 00:11 |
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| rm_work | what announcement were you talking about earlier? what did nokia do this time | 00:11 |
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| Macer | my buddy couldn't fix it | 00:17 |
| Macer | reflowing would melp plastic pieces around it | 00:17 |
| hakkattakk | is it recommended to install BackupMenu the first thing you do when you get the n900? I guess it is good to have if you "brick" the n900? | 00:17 |
| Macer | melt | 00:17 |
| amiconn | Bwahaha. Maemo browser - open replacement: Fennec (with a ? though). Fennec is essentially unusable imo | 00:17 |
| Macer | and there is 0 space to work with to get the connector on | 00:17 |
| Macer | so i guess i will just ebay a new n900 | 00:17 |
| Macer | that sucks | 00:17 |
| Sicelo | yes hakkattakk. | 00:18 |
| Sicelo | best approach actually, ssh too | 00:18 |
| hakkattakk | then the PowerKernel? After that the CSSU? | 00:18 |
| hakkattakk | *Kernel Power | 00:19 |
| Sicelo | those are up to u. i'd say cssu has precedence over pk, depending on your needs | 00:19 |
| Sicelo | :/ | 00:19 |
| hakkattakk | Ok, so I will install it in this order: BackupMenu, CSSU, Kernel Power | 00:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Macer: :/ | 00:20 |
| hakkattakk | I guess that´s all the important stuff, after they are installed I can focus on the applications | 00:21 |
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| Macer | SpeedEvil: yeah suks | 00:21 |
| Macer | i will have to ebay a new one | 00:21 |
| Macer | :( | 00:21 |
| Macer | one ebay seller is selling it for 299 | 00:21 |
| Macer | with $50 for shipping! | 00:21 |
| Macer | WTF?? | 00:21 |
| hakkattakk | oh my | 00:21 |
| hakkattakk | I bought mine for around 140$ with shipping | 00:22 |
| Macer | even fed ex next day from the arctic doesn't cost that much | 00:22 |
| Macer | i wanted a new one ;)) | 00:22 |
| Macer | i'm a little weary of used ones | 00:22 |
| hakkattakk | ah, I see | 00:22 |
| Macer | especially with usb ports breaking off the damn things | 00:22 |
| faina | I think ebay sellers make all their money off of shipping | 00:22 |
| Macer | faina: that is retarded tho.. $50 is just unrealistic | 00:22 |
| faina | So, anyone want to port maemo to one of the android phones with unlocked bootloader? | 00:22 |
| Macer | i shipped mine for $7 | 00:22 |
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| hakkattakk | is it possible to fix the USB-port after it has bracking off? | 00:23 |
| Macer | hakkattakk: my buddy couldn't do it | 00:23 |
| NIN101 | faina: no, short answer is: it's impossible | 00:23 |
| Macer | and he has a doctorate in electronic engineering | 00:23 |
| hakkattakk | doh! | 00:23 |
| Macer | and millions of dollars of equipment at work | 00:23 |
| Macer | if he can't do it i can't really see anybody else being able to manage it | 00:23 |
| hakkattakk | maybe i should soilder it before it happens then | 00:23 |
| Macer | yes you should | 00:23 |
| Macer | he said use epoxy on it | 00:23 |
| Macer | instead of solder | 00:24 |
| Macer | if it is new | 00:24 |
| faina | NIN101: but cyanogenmod has a build environment for several phones... that produce useable kernels? | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: I've worked on similar sized hardware. | 00:24 |
| Macer | but there was no way for him to repair it.... it is impossible | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: It's in the skills you have more than the equipment. | 00:24 |
| Macer | he is very skilled | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | If he's not been working on rework. | 00:24 |
| Macer | trust me.. he knows what he is doing... :) | 00:24 |
| Macer | he said the design is horrible... and my pads were good.. he said there is 0 space and producing enough heat to reflow was melting plastics near the area | 00:25 |
| Macer | there is 0 space to do anything since the connector sits right on top of the pads | 00:25 |
| Macer | so you can't even wire it up and work with it at all | 00:25 |
| NIN101 | faina: the point are the closed bits of maemo and some assumptions about the hardware they do and other stuff, and if you replace them, you basically don't have maemo anymore... | 00:25 |
| Macer | but.. yeah.. it is fail :) if i get a new one i am opening it up right away and putting epoxy all over the damn thing | 00:26 |
| Macer | i hoestly didn't even know n900s had this problem until it happened to mine | 00:26 |
| Macer | then found out tons of them were doing it | 00:26 |
| Macer | nokia fail | 00:26 |
| faina | NIN101: ok. so it would be better to think of such a thing as "debian+hildon" then? | 00:27 |
| Macer | (amongst the many other failures of nokia) | 00:27 |
| faina | Macer: so there's a way to reinforce the usb port? | 00:27 |
| Sicelo | Macer: i think i agree with SpeedEvil. tmo has screenshots of many fixing their own | 00:27 |
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| Sicelo | -usbfix | 00:27 |
| Macer | Sicelo: i think they didn't work | 00:27 |
| Macer | :) | 00:27 |
| Macer | fakes lol | 00:27 |
| Sicelo | why i never remeber the shortcuts | 00:27 |
| SpeedEvil | It is not trivial at all if you have not been actively involved in rework of SMD boards. | 00:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~usbfix | 00:27 |
| infobot | hmm... usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 00:27 |
| Macer | heh | 00:28 |
| NIN101 | faina: probably if you have the driver (sources) and even then it's not easy. | 00:28 |
| Macer | i want to seal it for underwater :-P | 00:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Macer: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sylgard-184-Solar-Cell-Panel-SILICONE-Encapsulation-Kit-/130429284542?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5e30f0be | 00:28 |
| SpeedEvil | That should work well. | 00:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | (in reality, it may intefere with the antennas, not to mention the camera and slider) | 00:29 |
| Macer | lol | 00:31 |
| Macer | i was kidding ;) | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | I know, I happened to have it on my bookmarks | 00:32 |
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| amiconn | If it's impossible to (re)solder the usb connector, how did they solder it in the first place? | 00:34 |
| amiconn | (aka there must be a way...) | 00:34 |
| Macer | they didn't | 00:38 |
| Macer | a machine did it for them | 00:38 |
| Macer | :) | 00:38 |
| Macer | and it was probably one of the first things to go onto the board | 00:38 |
| Macer | somebody at the chinese sweatshop that made it probably accidently hit the HTC button for the USB port machine and wound up making it at cheap quality | 00:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | The boards are soldered by screening on layer of solder paste through a stencil, placing the components, and then passing through a reflow oven | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | With a second pass for components under the board | 00:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: (producing enough heat to reflow was melting plastics near the area) haha, what plastic? | 00:43 |
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| amiconn | Judging from a pcb scan, resoldering the usb connector doesn't look too difficult to me | 00:46 |
| Macer | http://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/nokia-aims-for-low-end-phones-2011-09-29/DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E975#!DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E975 | 00:46 |
| Macer | wow | 00:46 |
| Macer | how far from the top of the hill they have come | 00:46 |
| amiconn | That i, not using reflow but manually, using a soldering iron with a fine tip | 00:46 |
| Macer | nokia is selling phones to crack heads and pimps | 00:46 |
| Macer | so crackhead phones are called "feature phones" ? | 00:49 |
| Macer | LOL | 00:49 |
| Macer | wow | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: ever pondered your "expert friend" maybe had no interest wasting his time on helping to fix the USB? | 00:49 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: possible | 00:49 |
| Macer | who knows | 00:49 |
| Macer | i gave up anyways | 00:49 |
| Macer | :) | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's up to you, but please don't spread FUD here | 00:49 |
| Macer | i was just passing the word | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix | 00:49 |
| infobot | hmm... usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 00:49 |
| Macer | i already saw that | 00:50 |
| Macer | if they got it to work then power to them | 00:50 |
| Macer | i doubt he was trying to get over on me :) | 00:50 |
| Macer | nor do i doubt his abilities... who knows. maybe it was more damaged than i thought | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | so fixing a broken USB clearly *IS* possible | 00:50 |
| Macer | i will believe it if i ever see it | 00:51 |
| SpeedEvil | There are pics on the thread | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it only needs moderate skills on a SMT board reworker metrics | 00:51 |
| Macer | posting a pic of something that might have been repaired is far from a personal experience | 00:51 |
| SpeedEvil | The boards posted were clearly reworked | 00:51 |
| Macer | i could probably post a picture of myself on mars :) | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: you're trolling - warning! | 00:52 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: sure. i am sure the attempt was made | 00:52 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: no. i am not. | 00:52 |
| Macer | maybe a few lucky people were able to repair it | 00:52 |
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| Macer | i am sure most were not | 00:52 |
| Macer | and judging the way nokia handled it.... :) well. i love maemo but damn i sure wish it ran on something non-nokia | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I agree 99.8% of users don't have the skills to repair that | 00:53 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: 99.8 huh? :) | 00:53 |
| Macer | plus there is the added variable of how damaged the phone is | 00:53 |
| Macer | but who knows. all i know is mine couldn't be repaired | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | here in this channel though it's more like 95% | 00:54 |
| Macer | i am debating if i should ebay one but my inner senses are saying no :) | 00:54 |
| Macer | maybe i will try to get a used one just to see if i don't get one with a port already broken off ebay | 00:54 |
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| Macer | but wow that is a horrible flaw. did nokia even acknowledge a design flaw or just say all of them were from user abuse? :) | 00:55 |
| faina | I think its a weakness of the micro-usb port. | 00:55 |
| faina | Or at least that's my impression from http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/09/20/1249246/smk-toughens-up-those-tiny-micro-usb-connections | 00:56 |
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| Macer | another way to make the same statement is "nokia used cheap parts" heh | 00:57 |
| Macer | ah well. i will probably just try to find a good used one | 00:57 |
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| Macer | and hope it isn't totally screwed up .. i loved my n900 and that usb problem came as s shock | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think it's a combination of a manufacturing issue that left a few devices with poorly soldered ports, plus a design flaw about the component not being through-hole type, plus a general flaw of micro-USB and the huge lever you get with those plugs | 00:57 |
| Macer | i took incredibly good care of it | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | faina: that article is rather BS marketing blabla though | 00:58 |
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| Macer | i am still laughing at nokia shifting its focus to "feature phones" | 00:59 |
| faina | I was thinking that if they wanted to say their product fixes a problem, that implies that there is a problem | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | the main problem is that this particular receptacle component isn't thru-hole type | 00:59 |
| Macer | it is giving up on its ms line of phones alaready? maybe they will come with winmob :) | 00:59 |
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| faina | Macer: is there a link to an announcement? | 01:00 |
| Macer | didn't i post it already? | 01:00 |
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| Macer | http://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/nokia-aims-for-low-end-phones-2011-09-29/DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E975#!DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E975 | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | faina: there obviously is a problem, but the particular problem with N900 isn't targeted by that smk component | 01:00 |
| faina | ah there it is... i missed it while i was working. | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | not directly | 01:00 |
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| Macer | DocScrutinizer: either way. they should have recalled. but considering that nokia is badly on the ropes i culd see why they did not | 01:01 |
| Macer | not to mention the n8|9xx didn't really have much by way of nokia support to begin with | 01:01 |
| faina | Its kind of weird watching a company flail around completely aimlessly. | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | no manuf ever recalls unless there's hazard for life and health | 01:02 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: even then... | 01:04 |
| kerio | something something fight club something something | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus I think you have as little a good statistic number of failure percentage as I do. But I'm rather sure for N900 the number of users that will come to tmo and shout and bitch after facing such a problem is way higher than average. So if there are 1000 reports of broken USB on tmo and there's maybe 1mio of sold N900, I'd agree with Nokia there's no problem at all | 01:06 |
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| Macer | haha | 01:07 |
| Macer | make many. if break. replace. if out of warranty. fk off. | 01:07 |
| Macer | :) | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | now the number of reports is way less than 1000 | 01:07 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: i just want nokia to repair my n900 :( | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: on embedded even 10% warranty events are not unheard and not yet really a big thing | 01:08 |
| Macer | what really sucked is i just got my su8w working perfectly on it when it broke. i was so excited about the newfound glory my n900 found | 01:09 |
| Macer | heh | 01:09 |
| Macer | ah well. i will see if i can find a used one that isn't a lemon | 01:09 |
| Macer | and solder the hell out of the port | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | good plan | 01:09 |
| Macer | giant globs all over the place :) | 01:09 |
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| Macer | maybe some duct tape | 01:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ??? | 01:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I know duct tape and wd40 are fixing everything, but are you sure it's duct tape and not wd40 here? ;-P | 01:11 |
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| * amiconn should probably check the usb port of his N900 at least | 01:11 | |
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| Macer | :) | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | amiconn: disassembling and a close inspection might be a worthwhile enterprise | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | one of my devices actually has pretty poor soldering on at least one of the 4 mech support posts (still OK though, and I'm using it every day) | 01:13 |
| amiconn | No problems so far here either, at least concerning the USB | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | then when you already got it disassembled and ever did some electronics soldering in your life, you probably want to do the preventive fix anyway | 01:13 |
| Macer | wow. the captain from babylon 5 is in tron legacy? | 01:13 |
| * amiconn 's N900 has a scratch it the left part of the screen's top layer | 01:13 | |
| * SpeedEvil uses a screen protector. | 01:14 | |
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| Macer | yeah. i put a sscreen protector on mine right away too | 01:14 |
| amiconn | That's from slipping while trying to plug it into the charger | 01:14 |
| Macer | the n900s screen was not very.. scratch proof.. but no phones are :) | 01:14 |
| amiconn | Otherwise, no scratches | 01:14 |
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| amiconn | I don't like those screen protectors | 01:15 |
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| Macer | better to have them then to not | 01:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | amiconn: I've before now put the seccateurs in the wrong pocket, and bent up and down a couple of hundred times. | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | You could barely see the screen | 01:15 |
| amiconn | In this case a screen protector probably wouldn't have helped | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | (slipping while trying to plug it into the charger) what? :-o | 01:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | But it was pristine ater swapping the protector | 01:16 |
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| amiconn | DocScrutinizer: Yes, with the micro usb plug. It's a good scratch tool :\ | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i... can't even imagine... how you usually plug in the charger | 01:18 |
| amiconn | From the left? | 01:18 |
| Macer | you hang the plug on the wall and try to throw it in | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like, yeah | 01:18 |
| Macer | lol | 01:18 |
| Macer | tron uses solarOS | 01:18 |
| Macer | :) | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I feel for the logo, and then plug it in carefully | 01:18 |
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| Macer | solaros 4.0.1 .. from teh "command prompt | 01:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hell, the screen is even on another side than the receptacle | 01:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and no matter how you **slip** on plugging in the plug (con't figure how you could slip at all on that), you impossibly wll hit the screen unless you do a 90° bend down on your way to slip away | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sounds like "I hit my own eye when I tried to insert the key to the door lock" | 01:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sometimes your fingers get elite skills when it comes to screwing stuff up. | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | one thing's for sure: the N900 USB receptacle isn't made to survive those artistic stunts for long | 01:23 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | I believe that I have successfully made a gcc 4.4 toolchain for scratchbox to target maemo | 07:27 |
| Sazpaimon_ | Im unpacking the rootstrap and installing the sdk on it now | 07:28 |
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| polar_cactus | Hi all, I'm trying to upload my first project in the garage (git)... | 07:59 |
| polar_cactus | Has anybody tried vcs.maemo.org/git? | 08:01 |
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| BrianB_ | Just got an N900 and would like to know what is the best/preferred app to use for rss? | 08:05 |
| faina | BrianB_: I'm using grr, but its tied to google reader | 08:08 |
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| BrianB_ | faina: Thank you. | 08:18 |
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| woldrich | is there a game like pipe mania ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yutgiwhMKlU ) for maemo or will I have to emulate? | 08:38 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. | 08:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | what the | 08:42 |
| faina | Sazpaimon_: fakeroot does a lot of LD_PRELOAD tricks to make things look like you're running as root. | 08:46 |
| Sazpaimon_ | faina, I understand that, but why am I getting this error | 08:47 |
| Sazpaimon_ | its preventing dh_testroot from suceeding | 08:47 |
| faina | what environment are you running on? | 08:48 |
| slonopotamus | woldrich: pipepanic? (didn't look at your link) | 08:48 |
| Sazpaimon_ | scratchbox, custom toolchain I made | 08:48 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I followed the old instructions at http://maemo.org/development/sdks/pre_alpha_installation/#manualinstall to get the maemo environment set up with it | 08:49 |
| Sazpaimon_ | its all working except this fakeroot error | 08:49 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | hmm looks like echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr fixed it | 08:51 |
| faina | huh... | 08:51 |
| slonopotamus | for anyone willing to give a new life to n8x0: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1102224&postcount=30 | 08:52 |
| faina | I built my scratchbox environment from the harmattan sdk, and then install fremantle rootstraps into it | 08:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | faina, the harmattan sdk uses hardfp | 08:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i dont think binaries will be compatible on an N900 | 08:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not to mention the eglibc version | 08:54 |
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| woldrich | slonopotamus, it's not in the repos? I found evilplumber, it claims to be something similar | 08:55 |
| faina | Sazpaimon_: I'm checking now. | 08:56 |
| woldrich | slonopotamus, oh jesus, it was horrible | 08:58 |
| woldrich | perhaps I should just setup uae | 08:58 |
| faina | built hello world, copied to n900, it ran. | 08:59 |
| faina | I used harmattan to create scratchbox, but used the fremantle rootstrap and devkits. | 08:59 |
| woldrich | Is there some good audio visualization software? I'd love to get projectm working but it doesn't seem easy | 08:59 |
| Sazpaimon_ | faina, weird, I decided to play it safe and build my toolchain using the same eglibc version and settings that the default scratchbox toolchain uses | 09:01 |
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| faina | Is there any docs on how to create new rootstraps/devkits for scratchbox? | 09:02 |
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| CableTwitch | I wish there was a decent alternative to MicroB... why does it kill itself so easily? | 09:21 |
| hiemanshu | CableTwitch: midori? | 09:22 |
| CableTwitch | Whatnow? | 09:22 |
| CableTwitch | Isn't that a drink? | 09:22 |
| hiemanshu | nope | 09:22 |
| hiemanshu | its a lightweight browser | 09:22 |
| CableTwitch | Lightweight in what way? | 09:23 |
| hiemanshu | check it out | 09:23 |
| CableTwitch | And can it be installed easily? I'm useless still when it comes to buggering about with the CLI | 09:24 |
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| hiemanshu | well IIRC yes | 09:25 |
| CableTwitch | Well, I'll have a looksee. I just want something that isn't going to get confused loading more than 2 pages at a time. | 09:26 |
| CableTwitch | And isn't dog slow (Firefox) | 09:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mhm midori. Been a nice browser on SHR/gta02 | 09:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but honestly available RAM and contemporary web page design make it seem wiser to never open more than one page concurrently on N900 | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, and moo | 09:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: funny enough binaries for "simple" things are actually compatible between fremantle and harmattan. Basically all that is cli-based and doesn't need floating point calculations | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | no problem to install and use things like less etc from N900 on N950 | 09:37 |
| * mece hates shitty js on web. | 09:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer | same here | 09:37 |
| mece | perhaps because all my computers are ancient pieces of crap | 09:38 |
| mece | except my N950 | 09:38 |
| mece | that's pretty new | 09:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore | 09:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's the FRIGGIN WEB-"PROGRAMMERS" that shit a pile on js on their "ACME Web2.oh" pages, then mess with it until it somewhat works on their particular browser and hw (of course run from their local HDD) and then even ask to get paid for that abomination | 09:45 |
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| hiemanshu | I have a quad core 3.0 ghz, 8G of RAM, I have Chromium open with 60 odd tabs | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, so what? | 09:46 |
| hiemanshu | works just fine :P | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, so what? | 09:46 |
| hiemanshu | <DocScrutinizer> meh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore <---- replying to this remark | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're not really asking me to give you a URL pointing to a page that sucks for your superduper hw as well? | 09:47 |
| hiemanshu | does it have flash? :P | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | FUCK FLASH! | 09:47 |
| hiemanshu | ofc, fuck flash | 09:47 |
| hiemanshu | none of my 60 tabs have flash | 09:47 |
| hiemanshu | so it works | 09:47 |
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| * amiconn wonders what exotic web pages DocScrutinizer is referring to | 09:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | idiots using flash for menues for the mere shits and giggles should get shot! | 09:48 |
| hiemanshu | Idiots using flash for tabs, because they cant understand how to use divs | 09:48 |
| dm8tbr | fphover FTW! | 09:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | amiconn: e.g developer.nokia.com than has issues with login as soon as you change your cookie mgmt away from ootb standards, loads 150 pictures for each shitty new webpage (mind you loading 150 images is slow via medium grade dsl even on 3GHz 8GB hw!) | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | then uses js for no good reason etc pp | 09:51 |
| amiconn | developer.nokia.com loads nice & quick for me. No login there, so can't test further | 09:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 09:52 |
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| amiconn | It's acktually okay even on N900 | 09:53 |
| amiconn | *actually | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess you're also using a 5GHz quad core with hyperacmeGPU-graca_overclocked and 16GB, of course with a 50GB cable the to internertz | 09:54 |
| amiconn | (using opera mobile) | 09:54 |
| amiconn | My laptop (where I tried it first) is a 2.4GHz Core2 Duo, 4 GB RAM | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | also seems your metrics for "fast and nice" obviously differs from mine - are you web-"programmer"? | 09:54 |
| amiconn | Well on the laptop it loads in 1-2 seconds | 09:55 |
| amiconn | N900 needs about 15 | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHAHA | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | so much for "fast and nice" | 09:55 |
| amiconn | 1-2 seconds is fast & nice for a whole page in my book | 09:56 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I did web programming for quite a bit of time | 09:56 |
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| amiconn | Completing the specs, the laptop just runs chipset graphics, and my internet connection is 25/5 Mbps vds2 | 09:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | loading developer.nokia.com: loading 162 pictures (which takes quite some time via my "slow" 2gb DSL), loading and starting js, and if you're unlucky even flash advertisments. compare ct.de which takes a third of the time | 10:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | amiconn: ooh only 25Mbps, I see | 10:01 |
| amiconn | What are advertisements? ;) | 10:01 |
| amiconn | adblock ftw | 10:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAHAHA | 10:01 |
| faina | I thought I saw an argument that a lot of internet slowness is due to overloaded ad servers | 10:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | caching on local HDD ftw EH? | 10:01 |
| luke-jr | "Get all the information you need to port your applications from Qt to Windows Phone and from iOS and Android to Qt." | 10:02 |
| luke-jr | wtf? | 10:02 |
| faina | where "internet" actually ment "web" | 10:02 |
| luke-jr | why the heck would anyone port from iOS/Android to Qt at this point? | 10:02 |
| faina | luke-jr: maybe they built qt for windows phone? | 10:02 |
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| luke-jr | faina: IIRC, part of their agreement with Microsoft was that they would NOT port Qt to WinPhone | 10:03 |
| luke-jr | and if they did, they wouldn't be saying port from Qt to WinPhone :P | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you need another url that *really* sucks, by all metrics: o2.de | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd not be surprised if MSIE and FF on windows were the only two browsers and only platform where that page renders correct and is actually usable | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | enough of ranting, have a few things in RL to sort... cya | 10:05 |
| faina | luke-jr: I'm baffled at why nokia is flailing so incoherently. | 10:05 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: works fine in Konqueror | 10:08 |
| amiconn | Thehe, that one's even faster than developer.nokia.com. Loads in a second on desktop & laptop | 10:08 |
| amiconn | N900 gives me the mobile version, also fast enough but of course not comparable | 10:09 |
| CableTwitch | Ahh, I see foaming over web pages. | 10:09 |
| CableTwitch | Must be that time of the month again :O) | 10:10 |
| amiconn | So far the only cases of annoying web page slowness (on non-mobile) I've experienced were caused by overloaded servers. hp.com download pages do this often | 10:12 |
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| CableTwitch | Mm, Flash. I guess I'm less biased against it, seeing as Albino Black Sheep is a favourite site of mine. And I'm evidently immune to adverts and the like that ustilise Flash, as I barely notice them these days. | 10:12 |
| CableTwitch | Slow pages... First World Problem. | 10:13 |
| CableTwitch | All it takes is a bit of patience. | 10:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | amiconn: you're out! 25Mbps downstream, c'mon your results are simply irrelevant for 95% of "normal" users | 10:17 |
| CableTwitch | No 'normal' users in HERE, Doc ;O) | 10:19 |
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| faina | Nobody but us mutants. | 10:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, yeah "can't see any wrong rendering - I'm blind" | 10:20 |
| CableTwitch | MicroB sometimes eats the formatting on El Reg.... most of the time it does it correctly. Some wiki also have this issue. | 10:20 |
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| amiconn | pfft | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're aware there are still 5..10% of users that are not able to get anything better than ISDN 64kbps? Exactly those that are NOT living in or next to a city | 10:27 |
| amiconn | My hardware is nowhere near the hyper-mega stuff you claimed though | 10:27 |
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| amiconn | I didn't even get the vdsl because of the downstream, but rather because of the upstream. | 10:28 |
| amiconn | Lack of upstream was what annoyed me with my previous connection (plain adsl 3072/384 kbps) | 10:29 |
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| woldrich | sdlmame works perfectly on the n900. This has to impress my girlfriends | 10:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | amiconn: which been only 50% better than what I got here | 10:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | amiconn: honestly, you're out! ;-D | 10:31 |
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| CableTwitch | Eh, Doc is just jealous XD | 10:37 |
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| CableTwitch | I got 20mbit ADSL at home, and due to my proximity to the exchange, I get almost all 20mbit down. | 10:37 |
| CableTwitch | Upstream is crap though. Not even half-meg. | 10:38 |
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| * amiconn ponders upgrading to 50/10 | 10:40 | |
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| CableTwitch | That's be nice. If only. | 10:41 |
| amiconn | Well according to the fritzbox, the line maxes out at 80/25 or so | 10:42 |
| amiconn | And 25/5 -> 50/10 means +5 €/month | 10:43 |
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| CableTwitch | Ahh, infinitely more expensive/elusive here in the UK. | 10:44 |
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| amiconn | Well that's just the upgrade, in case it wasn't clear | 10:45 |
| CableTwitch | Yeah, I meant it's expensively expensive for a line of that speed here. | 10:46 |
| CableTwitch | We run an ancient and odd infrastructure here still. | 10:46 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/04/patent_troll_targets_end_users/ | 12:35 |
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| Dibblah | Heh. Looks like the gas gauge chip gets rather confused by side-charging the battery :) | 13:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Unless you charge ti through the normal circuitry, it's not going to notice the charging at all. | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | and will think it's attached to an infinite battery. | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | If it gets down t the learn threshold, then it will learn up capacity 1/8th a time towards infinity | 13:25 |
| CableTwitch | I'd love an infinite battery. | 13:25 |
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| Corsac | CableTwitch: a *charged* infinite battery though | 13:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't want an infinite battery. Just one weighing a ton or so, which can convert at the rate of a kilo a second or so. | 13:48 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | does the autobilder use gcc 4.2? | 18:38 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | if so, how do I submit an application I built with gcc 4.4, the only compiles on gcc >=4.4 | 18:38 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | hey DocScrutinizer, maybe you know this | 18:45 |
| Sazpaimon_ | what gcc does the autobuilder use | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | nfc, sry | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG | anyone know Java? | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG | I need someone to help with some Android code | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | *burp* | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | it's the only hint I found at querying the local bus website | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | there's no documented API for it | 18:46 |
| merlin1991 | MohammadAG: hit me | 18:49 |
| * MohammadAG hits merlin1991 | 18:49 | |
| merlin1991 | lmao, you knew what I mean :D | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | course, PM :P | 18:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | I note that the UK rail company really got pissy at a lot of people using an 'open' API with no permission | 18:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Eventually pulled it, and requred authentication, with silly T&Cs | 18:52 |
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| MohammadAG | pretty sure the company doesn't know what an API is | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | API or AP? | 19:01 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, API | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 19:05 |
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| vdv | hi all | 19:57 |
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| vdv | is dual booting of meego which is installed on internal mmc and maemo possible? | 19:57 |
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| vdv | or nitdroid with maemo | 19:58 |
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| * zogg_ waves at #maemo | 22:08 | |
| Sicelo | \0 | 22:08 |
| * faina waves back | 22:08 | |
| zogg_ | hey faina, howdy? | 22:09 |
| zogg_ | Sicelo, \o/ | 22:09 |
| faina | hello | 22:09 |
| zogg_ | MohammadAG, q | 22:09 |
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| faina | I'm wasting time waiting to see if I fixed a bug in some slow running code | 22:10 |
| ZogG | what bug and what code? | 22:10 |
| faina | work. | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | a? | 22:10 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG sup, long time no talk | 22:10 |
| faina | analyzing sequencer result files, and I'd made an assumption about file name formats that'd changed. | 22:11 |
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| faina | I created a small test case, updated the code for the test case and got that working. Now I see if it can actually scan the real data. | 22:11 |
| ZogG | faina, is it just nickname or name? and what time is it there if you still at work? | 22:12 |
| faina | nic | 22:12 |
| faina | I'm in GMT-7/8 | 22:12 |
| ZogG | faina is common female name, that's why i asked | 22:12 |
| faina | not here in the US | 22:12 |
| vdv | very dissappointed with my n900... | 22:12 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, have you started to study already? | 22:12 |
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| ZogG | vdv, give it to me than | 22:13 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG, yeah :) | 22:13 |
| ZogG | khertan, hey buddy, sup | 22:13 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG where and what? tehnion? computer science? | 22:13 |
| ZogG | slonopotamus, privet medved =) | 22:13 |
| vdv | ZogG, will i become something instead of it? | 22:14 |
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| slonopotamus | ZogG: zdraste :-/ | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, mchena atm | 22:14 |
| ZogG | vdv, you'll become great wizard, if i understood your question right | 22:14 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, what about psyco? | 22:14 |
| ZogG | and hebrew? | 22:15 |
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| MohammadAG | well, that's the mchena | 22:15 |
| vdv | ZogG, that was receive.. | 22:16 |
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| vdv | i just miss up german and english words (bekommen == receive) | 22:16 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG for hebrew? or mehina is psyco? | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | hebrew | 22:16 |
| vdv | *mess up | 22:16 |
| ZogG | vdv sorry pal, ich nicht shprehen ze duetch, but if you want to give me your n900 as present i'll be more than glad | 22:17 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG what about psyco? | 22:17 |
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| ZogG | btw can someone explain why tizen and not meego2? | 22:18 |
| faina | ZogG: IMO our corporate masters are insane | 22:18 |
| slonopotamus | politics, i think | 22:18 |
| faina | or at least directionless | 22:19 |
| ZogG | i just don't get it, jumping from place to place | 22:19 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, screw that, mer's back | 22:19 |
| ZogG | they are losing money already, why would they spend more? | 22:19 |
| faina | IMO, Intel desperately needs a OS that can run on intel chips, Android seems tied to ARM. So they went hunting for a partner | 22:19 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, mer is not enduser | 22:19 |
| MohammadAG | talk to elop | 22:19 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo was enduser? | 22:20 |
| faina | it was the goal. | 22:20 |
| MohammadAG | which platform had MeeGo on it? | 22:20 |
| slonopotamus | so... $100 for porting tsc2301 driver onto 2.6.38 :) who'll give a bigger bid? | 22:20 |
| MohammadAG | faina, in reality, was it gonna achieve the goal? | 22:20 |
| faina | MohammadAG: beats me. All I can see is intel that intel is probably worried that all the growth is in the mobile market, and they're not shipping any chipsets there | 22:21 |
| ZogG | but mer is doesn't have vendor, that's my point | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | users wouldn't have been interested in MeeGo if it hadn't been for Swipe | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | and that's Harmattan, not MeeGo | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, MeeGo did, did it have any devices? | 22:21 |
| ZogG | and untill someone do release phone with it, it has nothing to do with non devs =( | 22:21 |
| faina | Original linux started out as a thing you used to replace your default OS with. It looks like we're going back to that place for the mobile world | 22:22 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, harmattan was bsed on meego or am i wrong? | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG | true, but was it MeeGo? | 22:22 |
| ZogG | faina, the problem is closed phones and drivers | 22:22 |
| faina | ZogG: as far as I could tell is it was a hybrid. used some meego libraries but packages like maemo | 22:22 |
| wmarone | harmattan was not meego | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG | it was far from MeeGo | 22:23 |
| faina | ZogG: look at all the work that was done reverse engineering drivers in the PC/Laptop world. | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | the only common factor would be libmeegotouch | 22:23 |
| ZogG | anyway i want some os tht actually running on phones | 22:23 |
| ZogG | natively | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | iOS | 22:23 |
| ZogG | i have iphone | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | actually | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | all OSs run natively on phones | 22:23 |
| ZogG | i cn switch it with you for n950 | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | I'd like an HTML5 kernel, would be interesting | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | I don't have my N950 | 22:24 |
| wmarone | ZogG: maybe samsung will do something not stupid and release hardware for this platform we can work with. Who knows. | 22:24 |
| ZogG | let me correct myself i want linux os running on my phone | 22:24 |
| ZogG | and android is not linux =) | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | technically, it is, linux is just a kernel | 22:24 |
| faina | http://wiki.debian.org/Mobile | 22:24 |
| ZogG | wmarone, i don't have that much money to buy phone every month just to check if it will be supported and has any future | 22:24 |
| ZogG | faina nothing there | 22:25 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG you know what i mean | 22:26 |
| faina | ZogG: I want a posix-like linux environment on my phone too. | 22:26 |
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| slonopotamus | ZogG: the problem is a lack of software | 22:26 |
| ZogG | it's a pitty i couldn't get hp touchpad | 22:26 |
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| faina | the debian wiki points to a few projects that may or may not actually run on a phone. | 22:26 |
| MohammadAG | slonopotamus++ | 22:26 |
| MohammadAG | and the lack of APIs doesn't help | 22:26 |
| ZogG | slonopotamus btw it Daniel ported funtoo on it =) | 22:27 |
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| faina | MohammadAG: isn't it more there are too many half-finished APIs? | 22:27 |
| ZogG | i'll end up buying android phone | 22:27 |
| faina | gtk, qt, qt-declarative... | 22:27 |
| MohammadAG | faina, not those APIs | 22:27 |
| MohammadAG | usually apps are for something like a service | 22:27 |
| MohammadAG | What's missing? closed apps | 22:27 |
| faina | ZogG: there's a handful of android phones that have unlocked boot loaders. Which would at least allow you to switch to something more open. | 22:28 |
| ZogG | closed apps are fun, isn't it? | 22:28 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: apis are less relevant. linux has at least three ui libs, but no single working mobile ui. | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | people are buying iPhones for apps like Viber, Whatsapp | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | slonopotamus, you clearly haven't used libmeegotouch then | 22:28 |
| ZogG | faina, but drivers and support | 22:28 |
| ZogG | android is what it is coz of Google | 22:28 |
| faina | ZogG: Have you seen cyanogenmod? | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | I was referring to web service APIs | 22:29 |
| ZogG | coz they know to promote and support | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | Shazam's missing, there's no API | 22:29 |
| ZogG | faina, yes | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | Whatsapp, it's built on XMPP, but no API | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | Viber, closed crap, no API | 22:29 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: "lib" in its word is a hint to me | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | slonopotamus, Harmattan's UI works fine | 22:29 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, whatsapp is not free anymore | 22:29 |
| ZogG | and viber wouldn't be for a long time i think | 22:29 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: works fine where? in harmattan; | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | it's free for Symbian uses | 22:29 |
| slonopotamus | ? | 22:29 |
| faina | I think there are drivers available for some phones. | 22:29 |
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| MohammadAG | slonopotamus, yes | 22:30 |
| faina | Though it might be like the nightmare of 3d drivers on desktop linux | 22:30 |
| ZogG | faina, think twice | 22:30 |
| ZogG | or optimus nightmare for laptops =) | 22:30 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: that's the point. there is no such thing as a standalone "Harmattan UI". there's "Harmattan UI as a part of Harmattan OS" | 22:30 |
| MohammadAG | there's hildon, no one worked on it | 22:31 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, it was free for iOS for a while too | 22:31 |
| slonopotamus | yep. and maybe it was wrong. | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | people still use it over free XMPP | 22:31 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, there is a good reason for that | 22:32 |
| ZogG | common user doesn't care or knows what is XMPP | 22:32 |
| ZogG | he want app that works | 22:32 |
| ZogG | when it's not other client | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG | Facebook chat? | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG | it's XMPP based | 22:33 |
| ZogG | but app that makes everything for you you just sent msgs | 22:33 |
| slonopotamus | https://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/hildon is it fremantle hildon? | 22:33 |
| ZogG | and i mean no need in registration and various clients | 22:33 |
| ZogG | jut one client that works on all devices and knows if your friends have it | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG | I guess we could hit Whatsapp | 22:34 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if the idea's patented | 22:34 |
| ZogG | what exactly? | 22:35 |
| ZogG | viber is the same | 22:35 |
| ZogG | and talkbox | 22:35 |
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| MohammadAG | anyone wanna set up an XMPP server that's free and uses numbers as usernames? | 22:35 |
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| slonopotamus | numbers suck | 22:35 |
| slonopotamus | :P | 22:35 |
| ZogG | slonopotamus, end user wouldn't know | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | that's how Whatsapp works :p | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | enter your phone number | 22:36 |
| slonopotamus | ZogG: icq users do. | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | it runs through your contact list | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | sees which numbers it has on the server, and shows them in the UI | 22:36 |
| ZogG | slonopotamus, you didn't get, there is difference between to get number as nickname or to use indefication as phone number, as[ecially as it runs on phone | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | only concern for me is verification | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | sending SMSs for registration is costly | 22:37 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, use email instead | 22:38 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, use gtalk as base at all so no need in server | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | and that confirms it's your number how? | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | what prevents me from using your number and sending messages to your gf so she breaks up with you? | 22:39 |
| ZogG | tricky question =) | 22:39 |
| ZogG | you had to ruin everything ah? | 22:39 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, she wouldn't =P | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | there's a reason whatsapp confirms your number | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, not after what you said to her | 22:40 |
| ZogG | she knows i have some dudes over internet that can joke | 22:40 |
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| MohammadAG | what if you say I'm breaking up with you | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | she wouldn't know it's a dude over the internet | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | it's your number | 22:40 |
| ZogG | she is from yamen and has no understanding in computers | 22:40 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, i have an idea | 22:41 |
| ZogG | you use whatsapp as registration approval | 22:41 |
| ZogG | =) | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG | wow, that works on Harmattan how? | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | we're back to step 1 | 22:42 |
| ZogG | you need to have two phones =) | 22:42 |
| ZogG | it would be migration from old phone | 22:42 |
| ZogG | anyway n9 is for geeks | 22:43 |
| ZogG | or ucan try to email whatsapp devs | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | N9's for geeks? | 22:45 |
| MohammadAG | you're very wrong | 22:45 |
| MohammadAG | geeks would hate the N9 | 22:45 |
| MohammadAG | the N9's your typical phone | 22:45 |
| MohammadAG | it's no N900 | 22:45 |
| frals | tss | 22:48 |
| frals | im a geek and i love the n9 | 22:48 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | Anyone here familliar with pulseaudio codin | 23:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | g | 23:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I have a program that's using pa_stream_begin_write and pa_stream_cancel_write as well as PA_CONTEXT_NOFLAGS | 23:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | none of these exist in maemo's PA | 23:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | is there a workaround that anyone knows? | 23:12 |
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| merlin1991 | MohammadAG: what's the problem with sms? | 23:27 |
| merlin1991 | the only thing is you'd need local numbers in each country | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | merlin1991, yeah... | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | can you afford that? | 23:29 |
| merlin1991 | well no, but I bet if we do that within the mamemo community we could get lines in a few countries | 23:30 |
| merlin1991 | like I can'T afford lines everywhere, but donate the austrian one to the project would be possible | 23:30 |
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