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| blackthorne | Hi | 00:06 |
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| blackthorne | I want to install Pwnie Express, the security pen test for N900 | 00:06 |
| blackthorne | Do you know how can I install it side by side (dual boot) with Maemo 5? | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you'll probably need uBoot in NAND (maemo) kernel and your system (incl your kernel) installed to uSD (or eMMC) | 00:40 |
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| ZogG | haha just read that nokia gonna make new operation system | 00:50 |
| ZogG | Meltemi | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | meltme | 00:52 |
| rd | dpkg-buildpackage wants my gpg passphrase every time for a build. Has anybody a setup with gpg-agent? | 00:54 |
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| HyperSnyper | DocScrutinizer51, is > Enable extras-devel > Install "backupmenu" | 01:00 |
| HyperSnyper | best way to install it on n900 ? | 01:00 |
| HyperSnyper | or anyone else thats about ;P | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nah, it's ok. or simply use apt-get | 01:01 |
| HyperSnyper | should that repo be disabled after yeh ? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I don't usually disable it | 01:02 |
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| HyperSnyper | k thxs again | 01:03 |
| * HyperSnyper hides | 01:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but that depends on your particular selection of apps and your feelings abot 'bleeding edge' sw | 01:03 |
| HyperSnyper | was looking at bleeding edge earlier | 01:03 |
| HyperSnyper | but thought i should get backups done before going further | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | why do you hide? Is anybody going to beat you when you enable extras-devel? | 01:04 |
| HyperSnyper | probably end up hurting myself somehow :D | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, probably its a good idea to disable it after insatlling backupmenu, when you only enabled it for BM | 01:05 |
| HyperSnyper | still finiding my way at mo | 01:05 |
| HyperSnyper | heh | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | then do a backup (it also backups the catalog list), do a backup with stock backup app as well | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (both store the catalog lsit as well) | 01:06 |
| HyperSnyper | not got microsd at mo, so should i copy backups to other storage ? | 01:07 |
| HyperSnyper | does flashing wipe all internall storage ? | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | then probably you want to re-enable x-devel | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and check for all the cute stuff there | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | HyperSnyper: flashing both does | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | flashing COMBINED pretty much not | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | see | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~flash | 01:08 |
| infobot | rumour has it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it has a rather extensive explanation | 01:09 |
| HyperSnyper | nother reason i was hidding, i keep using you as google replacement, ur just so much quicker ;P | 01:09 |
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| HyperSnyper | got another, any warnings on using backupmenu ? | 01:10 |
| HyperSnyper | like don't remove/plugin charger while it working | 01:10 |
| HyperSnyper | or close keyboard | 01:10 |
| HyperSnyper | etc | 01:10 |
| HyperSnyper | ? | 01:10 |
| rd | I just built current svn of navit for the n900 (manually entering gpg passcodes....) | 01:11 |
| HyperSnyper | sounds interesting... | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (google replacement) also much nicer and smarter ;-P and much more enjoying it than google does | 01:13 |
| HyperSnyper | hahah | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Warnings: none | 01:15 |
| HyperSnyper | easier then smoking | 01:16 |
| HyperSnyper | :D | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | just the shell won't work with stock kernel | 01:16 |
| HyperSnyper | ? | 01:17 |
| HyperSnyper | hmm so needs powrer kernel ? | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | only for the shell | 01:28 |
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| HyperSnyper | does Joikuspot still have an issue with custom kernel ? needing to do > "modprobe JoikuSpot_Bouncer", before starting ? | 03:58 |
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| balrog-k1n | hey, does Mappero really save the tracks when it says "Track saved."? i can't find any of the tracks it saved anywhere in the filesystem | 05:02 |
| balrog-k1n | it looks like they should be in ~/MyDocs, but there's no new files there :/ | 05:03 |
| * balrog-k1n would hate to have to recreate all the tracks by revisiting the palces | 05:03 | |
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| balrog-k1n | although if i select a different directory in the save dialog, a new file does appear | 05:06 |
| balrog-k1n | only not in the main directory | 05:06 |
| Macer | going to get a synology disk station | 05:06 |
| balrog-k1n | i really hope it didn't just send them to the bitbucket | 05:07 |
| SpeedEvil | new log + strace? | 05:09 |
| balrog-k1n | if i save another file under the same name as a previous track it doesn't complain, still says "Track Saved", so it might be it never wrote the file ;/ | 05:10 |
| * balrog-k1n tries strace | 05:12 | |
| balrog-k1n | oh no strace installed | 05:13 |
| balrog-k1n | this would be about the third time i've lost hours of work due to maemo mapper bugs :/ | 05:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I like the gps tracker widget - just works for me | 05:14 |
| balrog-k1n | i'll try that, thanks | 05:14 |
| balrog-k1n | can it insert marks? | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 05:15 |
| SpeedEvil | i use photos to do marks | 05:15 |
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| balrog-k1n | i did my latest mapping on buses so there wasn't enough time to notice something interesting and snap a picture of it before we left it behind :p | 05:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:19 |
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| mr_jrt | Just out of curiosity...what advantage does Joikuspot have over Mobile Hotspot? | 05:24 |
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| HyperSnyper | trying to get bleeding edge applet loaded > installed power kernel > installed applet set location and dled drivers > but on loading i get "ifconfig SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device" | 05:32 |
| HyperSnyper | any ideas ? | 05:32 |
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| HyperSnyper | hmm seems the one i've installed is from extras"42" and too old | 05:40 |
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| balrog-k1n | SpeedEvil: speaking of bugs have you noticed, on the n900 that the gps would sometimes get stuck in a state where it claims to see 12 or so satellites at the minimum signal strength (6%?) and stop updating until it's turned off and on, or sometimes the whole device would have to be power cycled? | 06:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | Not seen that | 06:09 |
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| * balrog-k1n regrets clearing the last track after saving it :( | 06:23 | |
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| Sazpaimon | finaly got my N900 put back together | 07:24 |
| Sazpaimon | find a small piece of something got under the digitizer screen | 07:24 |
| Sazpaimon | i cant blow it out | 07:24 |
| Sazpaimon | :( | 07:24 |
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| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/ZTE-T98-and-Asus-Asus-ToughETBW11AA/ <-- hmm | 08:57 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/29/apple_claims_products_lame/ <-- rofl | 09:04 |
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| rmrfchik | DocScrutinizer: lol, you're on metawatch as well ;) | 11:06 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: What's the battery life like on your MetaWatch? | 11:13 |
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| rmrfchik | oh, and GeneralAntilles is there | 11:15 |
| ErwinJunge | DocScrutinizer: I got happy too early. The SIM failed again last night :( I guess I'll let my electronics friend have another go at hot air reflow. Or could there be another cause? | 11:16 |
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| ruskie | ~aegis | 11:47 |
| infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 11:47 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: Top 1% of iOS Game Developers Make a Third of All Revenue | 12:38 |
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| lardman|home | RST38h: something similar with tax returns iirc | 12:58 |
| lardman|home | though not quite such extreme numbers | 12:58 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/30/software_copyright/ <-- this sounds way to much like business logic | 12:59 |
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| Hags | How do you exit the menu of Navit on Maemo on Nokia N900? (In particular, how do you use Navit at all, e.g. example maps.xml showing whether I can use multiple root XML elements, etc.? ) | 13:06 |
| Hags | In particular, is there any way to use Navit without having to restart the program each time you change a setting? | 13:08 |
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| Hags | OK, I figured it out, it's uparrow, enter. Why? | 13:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~moo | 13:18 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 13:18 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | c'mon it's Friday, so what's the completely weird possibly made up and for sure OT talk today? ;-D | 13:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this comet MohammadAG mentioned destroyed the world a week ago and we just didn't notice yet? | 13:20 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer: I have solution for bq kernel module and BME | 13:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Pali: Which is? | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: nice | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | bother to tell me? | 13:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my idea was along a LD_PRELOAD lib around bme, to intercept and redirect fopen() and friends | 13:42 |
| Pali | First is patch in bq module which export character device with ioctl for access bq registers | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | only if it was to /dev/i2c-2 | 13:42 |
| Pali | and I have simple library for LD_PRELOAD compatible with i2c-dev | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 13:43 |
| Pali | Next is patch for kernel module i2c-dev which will use ioctl function in bq module | 13:43 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, that sounds not insane | 13:43 |
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| Pali | that i2-dev kernel module patch is not done yet | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: could work | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | take particular care about i2c-dev not building up too much overhead | 13:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway my isea of just dealing with bme to redirect the access to /dev/i2c-2 to the proper /sys/bq27200/raw feels less invasive to me | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | leaves the kernel space untainted, and only needs a LD_PRELOAD wrapper around BME | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | He who writes the code makes the rules. | 13:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 13:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not in kernelspace, SpeedEvil | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, such a patch will never, ever get upstream. | 13:48 |
| Pali | yes, better is patched i2c-dev to use bq module for access reigsters | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Which raises some maintainance issues | 13:48 |
| Pali | but BME and all battery our stuf is maemo related | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | please check for "recursion termination conditions"! ;-D | 13:49 |
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| Pali | in pre build kernel-power v49 is that bq kernel patch included | 13:50 |
| Pali | see commit: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=commit;h=bac1e954cf97153134efb2d54ba11c50306a136e | 13:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and honestly patching i2c-dev feels ... nasty | 13:50 |
| Pali | patch: bq27x00-reg.diff | 13:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as i2c-dev is a corner stone of the whole system, if there's any bug in it, we might even kill hw | 13:51 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, the comet decided to turn back after it heard about Tizen | 13:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | Naah. | 13:52 |
| Pali | so we must be sure that i2c patch will be bug-free | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | last patch to i2c-dev introduced a bug so nasty nobody but me noticed it, and it wasn't even reproducable as it depended on a race condition | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | It actually hit. The only casualties were 3500 nokians. | 13:53 |
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| MohammadAG | noobish q: what does bq offer that bme doesn't? | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Accurate information about the battery state | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: a LD_PRELOAD wrapper around bme, to make it access /sys/*/*/bq27200/raw rather than /dev/i2c-2, that would fix the issue without any tampering with kernel space | 13:55 |
| Pali | wrapper is ready, see: https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_libbqioctl | 13:55 |
| MohammadAG | on that note, is Harmattan's bme better/more accurate? | 13:55 |
| Pali | I tested it only with bq.sh script and i2cget | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: seems to be, yes | 13:55 |
| Pali | wrapper library overwrite open, close and ioctl (which are exported by libc.so.6) | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: great | 13:57 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer, can you look at that library? There can be some bugs... | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | the link you just posted? | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: ^^^ | 13:59 |
| Pali | yes, maemo_libbqioctl | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | will do, a pleasure | 13:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: I gather in bqread you get the register return value in struct bq27x00_reg_parms int ret, anyway you later on check this varable for <0. I don't get it how you'll get register values <0 from bq27200, or are you assuming an implicit cast of signed int8/16 to always positive int? | 14:13 |
| Pali | see interface of reg_params in kernel: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=blob;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/bq27x00-reg.diff;h=11a99503e121c9d75aa916250b4d756f22294bef;hb=bac1e954cf97153134efb2d54ba11c50306a136e | 14:14 |
| Pali | value from bq register is casted to (32bit) signed int | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui the code will return dezimal 65534 for 0xFFFF, correct? | 14:14 |
| Pali | should be | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 14:15 |
| Pali | I'm using function bq27x00_read in bq27x00_battery_reg_ioctl | 14:15 |
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| Pali | and in whole bq module is used function bq27x00_read | 14:16 |
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| Andy80 | hi | 14:26 |
| Andy80 | one question: who manage the Planet Maemo feeds? | 14:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I still fail to wrap my head around it completely, but I think it's not 100% the way I'd prefer, which is: bq27200.ko creates not only the plaintext "/sys/*/*/bq27200/current_now" and whatnot sysnodes, but also a plaintext(!) raw dump sysnode (see http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/bq27k-detail dmp=(`cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx_pwm.0/hdq.0/hdq/dump| tr -d '\n'`) ) -- then I'd assume the libbqioctl LD_PRELOAD wrapper around | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | bme to intercept access to /dev/i2c-2 and map it to reads to that /sys/*/*/bq27200/raw (which is a plaintext file consisting of hex printed register values of all bq27200-chip registers) | 14:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: as I understand it you're doing the LD_PRELOAD for bme (et al) and intercept the open(), close(), ioctl() calls, but I fail to understand where to you redirect them. Seems they are not redirected to /sys/*/*/bq27200/raw (aka /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx_pwm.0/hdq.0/hdq/dump ) plain text file | 14:34 |
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| Pali | ioctl call is redirected to ioctl call on /dev/bq27200-0 | 14:35 |
| Pali | that character device is created by bq module | 14:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes. | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | well it will probably work as well, though I find it's nicer to not create that new device /dev/bq27200-0 but rather that sysnode with plaintext | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's just me, your taste may vary on that | 14:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw if you'd augment libbqioctl to also handle bq24150 access, we could actually implement jrbme.ko proper kernel based charging handler and chip interface, according to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt (redirect the ioctl calls to /sys/*/*/bq24150/r00..r05 ) | 14:44 |
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| Arkenoi | does kernel-bfs have all kernel-power features? | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think jacekowski already started on implementing such a kernel module to expose all those sysnodes for bq24150, but he stopped when he noticed it will collide with bme direct i2c-2 access | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: nfc what's kernel-bfs | 14:46 |
| Arkenoi | kernel with brain fuck scheduler, obviously. it is in extras-devel iirc | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | hooray for new kernels for whatever-little-detail-changed from stock | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ¡ | 14:47 |
| ruskie | hehe | 14:47 |
| * ruskie prefers the one he rolled himself with all the trimmings he wanted included | 14:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik you can change scheduler even on the fly, so what's wrong with asking pali to include bfs scheduler to PK as an option? | 14:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I mean there's been a reason why h-e-n stopped rolling a special h-e-n kernel and opted for integration of hostmode extensions to PK as quick as possible | 14:51 |
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| * ruskie still doesn't like PK | 14:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | so I guess you adore kernel-bfs then X-P | 14:51 |
| ruskie | nope | 14:51 |
| ruskie | as said... my own ;) | 14:52 |
| ruskie | I don't need overclocking and whatnot... just the same kernel with some stuff enabled | 14:52 |
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| * amiconn uses PK for several features: hostmode, ipv6 and overclocking/ undervolting | 14:52 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: overclocking doesn't add anything to kernel, it just changes a few numerical constants | 14:53 |
| ruskie | I stopped bothering with overclocking stuff 6 years ago | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: and it's not enabled in non-tampered PK, it's just *available* | 14:54 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer, kernel module for jrbe would be nice | 14:54 |
| ruskie | I thought it was enabled but just set to some default? | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: indeed | 14:54 |
| Pali | we could export functions to kernel instead some sysfs/dev nodes | 14:54 |
| ruskie | fbcon is another thing I want to have and have in my own kernel | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: so you say I should finally finish my work on http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt ? | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 14:55 |
| Pali | ruskie: fbcon is included in kernel-power | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: fine! | 14:55 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer, you can finish specification. I can help you with implementing kernel module, but I do not know bq24150 chip | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: I guess ruskie knows that, and he just wants to let us all know what he would like in PK and what not. Not that this matters to PK config, as we for sure won't remove "fixes" just because ruskie doesn't consider them useful for him | 14:57 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, what do you consider a "fix" ? | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: we should ping jacekowski what's been the state of his work with bq24150 kernel module | 14:57 |
| Pali | ok | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: see changelog of PK and you got it all - not going to debate this now with you, you're of course free to roll your own custom kernel whenever you like the way you like. I'm just saying cmmunity doesn't need another 392 kernel flavours in extras-devel, when everything can get integrated into PK, and enabled/disabled just like user decides to | 15:00 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, agreed on that | 15:00 |
| ruskie | good thing I don't push things into extras anything ;) | 15:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: I'm not fluent in kernel hacking for maemo atm, but I for sure can help with completing the http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt and explaining any unclear detail on how kernel module shall work | 15:02 |
| Arkenoi | yes, i'd prefer kernel-bfs features to be integrated to p-k | 15:02 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer ok | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course this would introduce a incompatibility into PK that still makes bme break whenever the bq24150.ko get loaded, unless bme is started LD_PRELOAD libbqioctl bme | 15:03 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer, can you look at this commit in android kernel? https://gitorious.org/android-n900/kernel-ng/commit/a7aa7f049e5be547a65247b7d88f6d248929d26c | 15:04 |
| Pali | if rjbme.ko will be implemented we can stop bme and delete it | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer to not touch android stuff except for most desperate state of mind | 15:04 |
| Pali | that commit impelement something about bq charger | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: the nice thing is user is free to either stop bme and use jrbme.ko to care about charging, or start bme and everything will work as usual, given bme got that libbqioctl wrapper | 15:05 |
| Pali | yes, if kernel driver will be not static linked into kernel, it is possible stop bme and load module... unload module and start bme | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: (andridiot bq charger) I'm quite confident my idea about how bq24150 works and shall get handled is good enough so I don't need any additional input from andridiot land that possibly spoils my day or my clear thoughts | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: (unload module and start bme...) even with module loaded bme can work with that wrapper | 15:08 |
| Pali | if we update/create new wrapper for that it is possible | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: I got some RL topics on my calendar - c u l8r | 15:08 |
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| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: remember my ranting about 2g/dual not working for me? | 16:01 |
| merlin1991 | I just tried with my sim in the n900 from my sister, and voila there it works | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | My 2G is a bit dodgy | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, what about trying a new SIM in *your* N900, after fresh full flash, as suggested? | 16:03 |
| merlin1991 | well I can't even get on 2g it just never switches and when I reopen the settings it's 3g again | 16:03 |
| merlin1991 | gonna do that soon | 16:03 |
| merlin1991 | need to back up stuff first :/ | 16:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway I guess it's a hw defect in cellmo | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | reflashing cellmo FW might help | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 16:06 |
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| AVHard | Hi there! | 16:08 |
| AVHard | May I ask a question about maemo and meego here? | 16:09 |
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| AVHard | Will I'll be able to install maemo packages in meego? | 16:09 |
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| merlin1991 | hm just installed syslog to check and all I get is this: http://pastebin.com/55Ru1gX6 | 16:11 |
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| merlin1991 | AVHard: no | 16:12 |
| * AVHard start to dislike meego now | 16:13 | |
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| t_s_o | ok, color me worried. The N800 suddenly thinks there is 14MB more free space on the internal storage | 16:16 |
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| t_s_o | figures, for some reason apt had cleaned out its cache but not downloaded updated lists. Do it really use 10MB tho?! | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pretty fsckng annoying that Nokia always sends his developer newsletter twice >:-( | 16:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles1 | Jaffa, dunno | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Jaffa, haven't even gotten it to a full charge yet. | 16:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles1 | But it arrived empty at about 1700 UTC yesterday | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | I charged it until about 2100 UTC | 16:57 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Got to about 66%, tried to charge it last night, but it apparently didn't want to take. | 16:57 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | 22% this morning | 16:57 |
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| * GeneralAntilles1 buys some MLB playoff tickets | 16:59 | |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, what device? | 17:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, digital MetaWatch. | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, clamp charger? Every day charging required? | 17:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Clamp, dunno about every day | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I haven't yet had it 24 hours | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | and didn't manage to get a complete charge on it yesterday | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's likely to be highly usage dependent, though. | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I couldn't keep my hands off it. :P | 17:23 |
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| Khertan | :) | 17:29 |
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| pauly2 | anyone got the n9 yet? | 17:47 |
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| * SpeedEvil checks pockets. | 17:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | Nope. | 17:47 |
| pauly2 | damn | 17:48 |
| pauly2 | lol | 17:48 |
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| luke-jr | pauly2: it sucks anyway | 17:52 |
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| pauly2 | lukw-jr: why it sucks? | 17:54 |
| pauly2 | sry | 17:54 |
| pauly2 | luke-jr: | 17:55 |
| luke-jr | pauly2: no keyboard | 17:55 |
| luke-jr | which is kinda the whole point | 17:55 |
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| pauly2 | luke-jr: can't afford one now anyways | 17:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I'd say the analog isn't worth it, though. | 18:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, limited screen(s) resolution, no seconds hand, only 3 buttons. | 18:06 |
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| Pavel | Is there a way to jury-rig the headset button to do something like rewind the player 10 seconds or so? | 18:14 |
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| Pavel | Say, send a command to Panucci or Rhythmbox to do rewind and play. | 18:14 |
| Pavel | I listen to podcasts while outside, and I like to keep the volume low, so I miss some words when a car passes by. As things stand, rewinding requires taking the phone out, unlocking it (possibly entering the password), rewinding, and locking again. | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pavel: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1006716#post1006716 might have sth for you, with a bit of tweaking the commands associated to the button events. Though it's long it's probably worth reading the whole thread | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavel: There's a thing to pause the payback on hadset press | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget the name, sorry | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | [ANNOUNCE] headset-control : Make the headset button actually manipulate tracks. | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | see link above | 18:29 |
| Pavel | Thanks. I'll give that a try. | 18:31 |
| Pavel | BBL | 18:31 |
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| slonopotamus | any plans for CSSU to improve IM performance when connecting to network? with ~100 contacts it is a pain | 19:14 |
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| orangey | hello all! | 19:32 |
| orangey | I can't seem to make my transitions.ini blur my background. what's up with that? | 19:33 |
| orangey | i'm running CSSU and the theme customizer | 19:33 |
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| RST38h | heya javispedro | 19:46 |
| javispedro | hi there. | 19:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hi | 20:11 |
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| Arkenoi | oops. i reflashed n900 and now nokia messaging vanished from service providers list | 20:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~part | 20:25 |
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| infobot | Leaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer). | 20:25 |
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| infobot | Leaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer). | 20:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh | 20:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, one last test (sorry for the noise) | 20:32 |
| infobot | Leaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer). | 20:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | better | 20:32 |
| orangey | is there a way to remove the 'no sim' icon? | 20:34 |
| orangey | it's irritating | 20:34 |
| orangey | and unnecessary | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 20:34 |
| RST38h | cover it with a piece of sticky paper? | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably yes | 20:34 |
| orangey | RST38h: i like it | 20:34 |
| orangey | DocScrutinizer: I've been through the forums, and others also complain of the same thing | 20:34 |
| orangey | but no solution thus far | 20:35 |
| Macer | hahaha | 20:35 |
| Macer | a piece of sticky paper huh? :) | 20:35 |
| orangey | I had a bit more success not making the 'cell' as default when trying to call | 20:35 |
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| Macer | my buddy is going to bake my n900 in a little bit... i think he said tomorrow | 20:36 |
| Macer | he found the perfect fitting usb port tho :) | 20:36 |
| Estel_ | orangey, AIS recently got support for hidding icons | 20:36 |
| orangey | AIS? | 20:36 |
| Estel_ | advanced-interface-switcher | 20:36 |
| Estel_ | You may hide wlan, gsm, or bluetooth icons completely | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | orangey: has anybody tried tweaking that xml config file that determines which statusbar icons show up where, and which menu buttons are available? | 20:37 |
| Estel_ | it's workaround for irritating icons-flashing, when You got more than one disabled | 20:37 |
| orangey | Estel_: searching | 20:38 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I've given edit to my post about kernel bfs | 20:38 |
| orangey | DocScrutinizer: Whatever AIS does, maybe that would work for this too.. | 20:38 |
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| Estel_ | There is now official annoucement thread now, with nice explanation what bfs-kernel is and why, by Idont | 20:38 |
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| orangey | macer: bake it? | 20:39 |
| Estel_ | ...+ many posts of people complaining about it being unable to install alongside kp48/49, lol | 20:39 |
| Estel_ | soldering, probably | 20:39 |
| Macer | he said the only way to do it would be to reflow it | 20:39 |
| Estel_ | it's great how people who don't know what kernel is - even on basic level go and read annoucement about bleeding-edge one with many warnings... | 20:40 |
| Wild_Doogy | hey, anyone know how the wifi auto connect works on the N900? I want to find a workarround for it not autoconnecting to WPA2-enterprise | 20:40 |
| Macer | so he is going to use a solder epoxy and use hot air | 20:40 |
| Estel_ | then, go ahead and install it on top of kp49, lol2 | 20:40 |
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| Estel_ | solder epoxy? wtf, solder with some de-oxidizing agent in form of epoxy putty? | 20:41 |
| Macer | i forgot how he said it heh | 20:41 |
| Estel_ | hardening only, when it's hot? | 20:41 |
| idont | Estel_: I went offline after posting the announcement thread, only to find out there were about two pages full of issues when I came back today o.O | 20:41 |
| Estel_ | never heard about it | 20:41 |
| Macer | he is using hot air on it | 20:41 |
| Estel_ | Yea, saw that :) btw, nice to see You here | 20:41 |
| Macer | to get the solder to make the port stick | 20:41 |
| idont | Seems like some didn't knew about the difference between kernel-bfs-flasher and kernel-bfs-bootimg :-/ | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | Macer, I just wonder what epoxy-solder is | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | yea, but teying to install it alongside kp is even more lol | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | anyway, it will settle down after few days | 20:42 |
| Macer | maybe i got the wording wrong.. but it would assume it is a thick paste like substance | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | joy of making annoucements | 20:43 |
| Macer | that will melt and harden when heated and cooled | 20:43 |
| idont | yep. There was/is one valid issue between the posts though | 20:43 |
| idont | It seems that Maemo will reboot several times when trying to boot a different kernel (with a different extraversion) | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | You got trishas trying to use it, failing, complaining for x pages, then, finally, annoucement reach desired audience | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | yea, nticed it | 20:43 |
| idont | After succesfully booting it, it will boot every time flawlessly though | 20:44 |
| idont | really strange, but not exlusive to kernel-bfs AFAIK | 20:44 |
| Estel_ | I wonder why it looks like that | 20:44 |
| idont | me too, will look into it later. Probably has something to do with the modules not being load or so. At least, that's my only guess right now | 20:44 |
| Estel_ | Macer, if it is something like solder + soldering paste n form of putty, but becoming real solder after heating to ~400 C degrees, that would be great | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!! | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Kernel-bfs reintroduces the original workaround but makes it optional. This way you can choose to accept the risks associated with removing the safety mechanism and use both bq27x00_battery and bme like in kernel-power v45-v47. To enable this old behaviour, execute "echo 1 > /sys/kernel/n900/i2c-dev_break_ioctl". You could put that command in a startup script for convenience's sake. Please refer to this post for more information regarding | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | the workaround.<< | 20:45 |
| Macer | Estel_: heh | 20:45 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: Hehe, I knew you would post something like that ;) | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | never let fools mess with your kernel! | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | Macer, it would allow to repair broken pds | 20:46 |
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| Estel_ | hahaha, I knw it also | 20:46 |
| orangey | Estel_: not only does it not do what I want, it adds an extra icon! | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | I knpw You will love me after that, but I was one requesting it :P | 20:46 |
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| Macer | Estel_: well. as long as my usb port works ;) | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | orangey, hahaha, how come? | 20:46 |
| Macer | i haven't had my n900 for like 3 months | 20:46 |
| orangey | Estel_: the AIS icon! | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | icon?! ais doesnt have icon | 20:47 |
| Macer | or more | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | idont: why don't you also implement a self destruct sysnode? echo 1 >/sys/BS/boom | 20:47 |
| orangey | Estel_: my status area now has a new icon.. a bunch of stacked bars | 20:47 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: I agree that the the safety mechanism in i2c-dev shouldn't be disabled, but some people are willing to take the risk. Anyway, i2c-dev_break_ioctl is 0 by default of course | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, but You must admit that there is no confirmed report of any fault causesd by it | 20:47 |
| idont | I for one will not echo 1 ;-) | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: BS | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | and I will echo 1. I was using it for ages without single glitch. | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | I agree with rationale to disable it by default | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | but freedom of choice is best | 20:48 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: Please don't forget that I actually *agree* with you opinion. | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: there's no way to postmortem-analyze it's been a i2c collision on any arbitrary bus on any arbitrary chip on any register that made the hw go hamuk | 20:49 |
| Estel_ | I would not cry here, if something goes wrong. Will just come and post info about it ;) | 20:49 |
| idont | Estel_: +1 | 20:49 |
| idont | @ freedom of choice ;) | 20:49 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, but how come one can use it extensively for months without any collisions? | 20:49 |
| Estel_ | I can't belive it's pure luck | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | so patches like this one add to a general "linux sucks and is instable" notion that is impossible to fix, unless you radically forbid any such bullshit ever hits the daylight | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | there must be something deeper about it | 20:50 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, one enabling thia should know the risk | 20:50 |
| orangey | DocScrutinizer: OK, now that AIS didn't work, where is this XML file that decides status bar icons? | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | if I build airplane on my own and go using it, I'm also knowing risk and it's ok - as long as I can't crash on someone head | 20:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, scratch all the battery talk. That was phone battery, not watch battery. . . . | 20:51 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, anyway, You have any idea what symptoms could prove conflict? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: unless you understand why it happens, when it happens, and why it has to be FORBIDDEN to ever get to any machine, I can't teach you here about reentrant-save race-free kernel design | 20:51 |
| orangey | I am blown away by how modern a phone can remain when it's open. my n900 doesn't show its age at all! | 20:51 |
| orangey | except modest won't mark my replied emails as replied.. boo | 20:52 |
| Estel_ | I would love to report here even smallest things that may be related to echoing 1 it | 20:52 |
| mece | Estel_, echo one where? | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: you probably won't even notice, and if you do you never would think it's related | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | I understand, but what the risk is, in Your opinion? what may happen? | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | can be a 1000 things, starting from wrong backlight brightness (readout of ALS got fsckd) to battery exploding (bq24150 programmed to charge battery to 4.45V) | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | mece, I mean kernel-bfs feature to enable bq27x00_battery co-existence with bme | 20:54 |
| Estel_ | ok, I'll look for any hardware issues. *any* | 20:54 |
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| mece | Estel_, ok, not my area :) carry on. | 20:54 |
| idont | mece: I've reintroduced the i2c-battery patch in kernel-bfs, but with some sysfs code wrapped around it (disabled by default) | 20:54 |
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| Estel_ | if something, even smallest thing goes wrong, I'll be first to report it. ven if it's not related. | 20:55 |
| Estel_ | but just plain suspection ;) | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | idont: this patch is a) idiotic, and b) there are better ways to achieve same result | 20:55 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, what ways? | 20:55 |
| * Estel_ is very interested | 20:55 | |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: a) I agree and b) They're not finished yet AFAIK | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and c) bq27200.ko driver is poorly written/designed anyway | 20:55 |
| idont | Estel_: redirecting ioctls | 20:55 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: I'm not using the bq27x00_battery module | 20:56 |
| idont | Well, only to test if the patch was working :P | 20:56 |
| orangey | idont: Just looking at the announcement. Is the experience markedly better than the current kernel power? | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | idont: e.g bq27200.ko could open-read-close i2c-dev instead of continuously occupy it | 20:56 |
| Estel_ | orangey, it depends | 20:57 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: eh hehe, sorry for the confusion :P | 20:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it certainly makes sens | 20:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | e | 20:57 |
| orangey | Estel_: on? | 20:57 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, so why no one rewrite it for us and even submit changes upstream? | 20:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Watch battery life combined with currently SSID seems a little arbitrary. | 20:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because nobody needs that driver so far | 20:57 |
| Estel_ | orangey, on use case. BFS is sheulder, as You already know. | 20:58 |
| orangey | sheulder? | 20:58 |
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| orangey | right, scheduler | 20:58 |
| Estel_ | It is reportedly known to work better on non-server machines | 20:58 |
| orangey | yes, I know | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's a complete BS to introduce a bug into i2c-dev to enable that driver coexist with bme | 20:58 |
| Estel_ | but its harsd to measure in hard numbers | 20:58 |
| idont | orangey: I would say to try it out for yourself :). Results seem to be mixed (ranging from "impressive" to "no difference"). At leat I'm happy to use it :-) | 20:58 |
| Estel_ | Idont quoted some graphs | 20:58 |
| orangey | idont: what's your experience? | 20:58 |
| idont | orangey: improvement, but I'm biased towards BFS' design | 20:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | idont: why would you want to keep bme running and instead fuckup kernel i2c-dev when bq27200.ko works pretty ok in an unpatched version of kernel, as long as bme got stopped? | 20:59 |
| idont | Estel_: I'm not sure which graphs you're talking about. Could you point me to them? (I'm sorry if I forgot something) | 21:00 |
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| orangey | I've put in enough phone time today, I think. I'll try it in a couple of weeks when things are a bit more free for me | 21:00 |
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| orangey | DocScrutinizer: Any hints re that XML for the status bar icons? All I can find is a thread discussing it on diablo | 21:00 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: Does everything still work with bme stopped? | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | does everything still work with i2c fucked up? | 21:01 |
| reenignEesreveR | could anyone suggest something robust for time lapse video on n900? | 21:01 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: irrelevant IMO, the risk is optional. | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS | 21:01 |
| idont | ? | 21:01 |
| Estel_ | iDontp i mean one quoted from bfs reasdme | 21:02 |
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| Estel_ | readme | 21:02 |
| Estel_ | "courtesy of Serge Belyshev" | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | to end users (and here all those who don't do kernel dev are end users) nothing is ever "optional" as there will be packages that request bq27200 module and will "take the risk" on behalf of "end user" | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | idont, sorry for typo | 21:03 |
| idont | np, one moment | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | it is rather comparing numbers proving inefficiency of cfa sheulder | 21:03 |
| idont | Estel_: graphs should be somewhere here: http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/ | 21:03 |
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| Estel_ | idont, bme functions doesn't work with bme disables, obviously | 21:05 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: I disagree, the user has to echo 1 himself and therefore willfully accepts the risks. I'm assuming no software would do this on behalf of the user (that would be an unacceptable risk IMO) | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAHAHAHA | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | so no emergency shutdown on low battery | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | (= possible risk of filesysten damage) | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: BS | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | no charging via pc | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | @500mA | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | (only 100mA, if any) | 21:06 |
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| Estel_ | etc | 21:06 |
| idont | Estel_: I know, it was more of a rhetorical question to DocScrutinizer ;-). That's why the patch is included. | 21:06 |
| * DocScrutinizer out | 21:06 | |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I don't like when someone try to babysit me as user, by denying me to use some option... | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | ...if risk is well described | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is too fucking nuts for my nerves | 21:07 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: Please know that the patch will be removed as soon as a proper fix for bq27x00_battery + bme will be finished | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | i.e with all warninga | 21:07 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: I'm sorry, it is not my intention to get your nerves up :-( | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, no offense, but when You introduced hotswapping battery... | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: I'm just saying one more sentence: you got NFC what's the risk, and you mess with other people's hardware in a way I deprecate deeply | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | via stopping bme and fooling chip to emergency charge | 21:08 |
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| Estel_ | I'm not meesing with other people hardware in any way | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | talking like that, aircrack-ng should be forbidden | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | cause it make 50% of user to mess with other people hardware | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | in direct way | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | thatnk for proof of NFC | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks even | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | I agrwe that I'm not specialist, so I accept risk twice - the one I understan, and the horrible one I dont understand | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | it's my choice | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | as long as it is not enabled by default, nor adveristed as safe, but warned, its ok | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | hope you're expert enough to strace each app you install for doing that magic echo 1 >selfdestruct | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | Your topic about hotswapping battery can fuck up people filesystem if fails, and You have written warninga in red around it | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | and it's ok ;) | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks for again proving NFC | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | removing battery is sth different to stopping bme | 21:11 |
| orangey | Any hints on where I can configure my statusbar icons to remove the 'no sim' icon? | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm definitely out now | 21:11 |
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| reenignEesreveR | time lapse ... anyneo | 21:12 |
| reenignEesreveR | ? | 21:12 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: Hope all is well, I'll be out in a minute too | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | look. Description on kernel-bfs annoucement is clear and understandable to any person installing it | 21:12 |
| orangey | what is the name of the area in which the clock and 'nosim' icons are? Is that 'status bar'? | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | with all due respect for DocScrutinizer, I just don't agree here and I'm quite surprised by this over-reaction | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, nothing is well! one fool writing a bs bq27200 driver, andother fool writes a patch to make it work with broken brainfsckd bme and that patch introduces risk of severe hw damage. the next fool reverts the rejection of that whole stinking pile of BS and tells a nice story of "taking the risk" (for WHAT?????) - and tomorrow an adridiot copycats it and serves it as hot pie to cyanogen, from where same fool#1 will import it next week as " | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | certified to work in andridiot" - january it goes upstream | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, nothing OK | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, You're not forced to use it, yep? | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | for me, freedom of choice is much more important. | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | Your ex'ple with selfdestruct echo - why not, anyone can use vi_ russian roulette script | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: once fool #6 sends it upstream I'm forced to use it | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | as far is it's described properly, it's no more bad thing. People can damage their devices psychically... | 21:17 |
| orangey | for posterity, it is: /etc/hildon-desktop/status-menu.plugins | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | so advocate for not using it upstream | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I already been forced to use it when it went into PK without proper review | 21:17 |
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| Estel_ | erm, You were not forced to update. And in bfs-kernel it'a disabled by default | 21:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The risk of hardware damage is real - the kernel is talking over I2C to the power regulators on the chips dozens of times a second. | 21:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Race conditions that can corrupt these writes can kill chips. | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | now, You're excited by f€t, that people are able to enable it, if they like to | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | no one forcing anyone to use it | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: please take over, my blood pressure destabilizes | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, exactly, that is how I understand risk | 21:19 |
| Pavel | DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil: Looks like it segfaults on my phone, but I am running the power user kernel (since I need to use the WiFi hotspot app). | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, if You dont mind explaining for a while without nervous reactions ;) | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO PUBLISH SHIT WHEN THERE ARE BETTER ALTERNATIVES | 21:20 |
| Sazpaimon | anyone test meego 1.3 yet? | 21:20 |
| RST38h | Really? | 21:20 |
| Estel_ | there are no alternatives working already | 21:20 |
| Estel_ | and everyone can publish shit, without forcing others to use it (microsoft) | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no excuse for own incompetence in "others are free to reject it" | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | not if hw damage is the alternative | 21:21 |
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| Estel_ | dropping phone into bathtube is also risk | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | would You penalty people for using it while taking bath, or in bathroom at all? | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: you're close to a kick for trolling | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | interesting, cause I'm performing civilized discussion. | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | You're free to dissagree | 21:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no you use purposely stupid analogies | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | But if Yout think emotions are overhelming You, won't You mind going off-line for a while? I don't like being terrorized | 21:23 |
| idont | Internet suddenly got disconnected :S | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | :P | 21:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nobody may sell a bath radio to stick to your bathtub with two suckers, not even when there's a writing in red on it about "DANGER! Do Not Let Drop Into Water!" | 21:23 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, with all due respect again, scarring someone by kick in IRC channel, judt bcauise You don't agree or think she/he is talking shit, is much worse for Open Spirit than enabling people to echo 1 some dangerous path | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | of course this would ban hair dryera | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | dryers* | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | You realizep how many people dry hairs in bathtube? | 21:25 |
| t7^ | :o | 21:25 |
| t7^ | so | 21:25 |
| idont | Estel_: I don't think I got kicked, my internet connection stopped as a whole (all lights lighted up on the modem, never seen that before) | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | refusing to see the difference between stupid behaviour and using stupidly behaving appliances/other stuff is considered trolling here | 21:25 |
| t7^ | anyone checked out meego ce1.3 on n900 yet? | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | for me, Your analogies - in this certain matter - are stupid, but I'm not trying to terrorize You with "kick for trolling" | 21:25 |
| t7^ | how is the performance? | 21:25 |
| Sazpaimon | t7^, I just asked in meego | 21:26 |
| Sazpaimon | stskeeps says there's a decent speed improvement | 21:26 |
| t7^ | oh | 21:26 |
| Sazpaimon | they even say to give it a try on my class2 microsd | 21:26 |
| t7^ | thanks Sazpaimon | 21:26 |
| t7^ | really? | 21:26 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah | 21:26 |
| t7^ | hmm i lost my class 10 card!! | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | screwit | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | Sorry DocScrutinizer, You may don't like me from now on, but I consider You behaviour as clearly terrorizing me with possible channel operator rights abuse. | 21:26 |
| t7^ | dropped it somewhere | 21:26 |
| t7^ | i'll get a class 4 now | 21:26 |
| t7^ | and try meeg | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | something I don't like on civilized discuassion. | 21:27 |
| Sazpaimon | class 10 isnt as good as a class 5 or 6 for an OS install imo | 21:27 |
| Sazpaimon | the higher the class, the worse the random read/write speeds get | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: you're free to consider that as whatever you like | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | I may dissagree with You, but I would defend Your right to speak Your opinion (in civilized manner) to my last blood drop ;) | 21:27 |
| Sazpaimon | if you're running an OS on the card, random read/write is very important | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | and now sorry gentlemen, I got better things to do than to teach fools about risk management in sw development | 21:28 |
| Sazpaimon | the class only applies to sequential read and write | 21:28 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, You already stated that You're very emotional about all of this. You really don't think You need to calm down a little? | 21:28 |
| Sazpaimon | I've found class 6 cards have the best tradeoff between sequential and random read/write speeds | 21:28 |
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| Estel_ | I thick channel operator abuse is something none of us want here. | 21:29 |
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| idont | DocScrutinizer: The patch is very device specific (i.e. bme -> n900). I don't think it is realistic to even expect this patch to ever end up upstream. Otherwise, I would agree with that these kind of patches should be killed with fire (for the greater good) | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | anyway, DocScrutinizer, I just like Yout to know that I still respect You and You work, even when I totally diss_ree with You here, and I think Your behavior (by calling idont fool and trying to terrorize me, by possible kick from channel) is tot!ly out of line here.is | 21:30 |
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| Estel_ | I also hope that all is well | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | out for a while, ping me if needed. | 21:31 |
| idont | Let's call it a day, I think everyone has said what they've wanted to say | 21:31 |
| mintux1 | I would like ods file open with gnumeric but in file manager I have to select this application for each file I added application/ods=gnumeric.desktop to /usr/share/applications/defaults.list also I have this http://codepad.org/GVHsjBgi what shall I do? | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | agree | 21:31 |
| mintux1 | I tired this topic but doesn't work for me http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9349 | 21:32 |
| mintux1 | 21:36 | |
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| mintux1 | no suggestion ? | 21:37 |
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| Estel_ | mintux1, what is not working for You exactly? | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | dbus-switchboard is thing You should use to change MIME correlations | 21:38 |
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| mintux1 | Estel_: when I open file manager and I want to open ods file it ask for a application to open. I would like when I press it . it open in gnumeric automatically not select gnumeric in list each time | 21:47 |
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| Estel_ | and that is how dbus-switchboard is supported to work AFAIK - at least if gnumeric support opening files like that | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | in dbus-switchboard, You need to set gnumeric as handler for mimetype of Your choice. | 21:49 |
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| mintux1 | Estel_: I want that but I could not | 21:51 |
| mintux1 | it doesn't work | 21:51 |
| Estel_ | could You tell us what exactly does not work, particullary? | 21:51 |
| Estel_ | i.e. what You did. | 21:52 |
| Estel_ | and what results were? | 21:52 |
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| mintux1 | Estel_: I added "application/ods=gnumeric.desktop" to /usr/share/applications/defaults.list according of this topic http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9349 also I changed this file to http://codepad.org/GVHsjBgi after open file manager and then ask me to select app again | 21:53 |
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| mintux1 | I would like when open a ods file in file manager.it open in gnumeric. just this | 21:54 |
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| Estel_ | mintux1, insteasd of following this topic | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | install dbus-switchboard | 22:00 |
| Estel_ | from extras-devel (usual warnings etc) | 22:00 |
| Estel_ | and use it to achieve Your goal | 22:00 |
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| Estel_ | on slightly different topic, could anyone point me to /sbin or /bin maemo default script, for enabling mass-storage mode? | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | for unknown reasons, sometimes my N900 (after long uptime, without echoing 1 bfs-kernel dangerous feature) ;) doesn't react to connecting it to pc, while it react for connecting it to charger. USB port ks in perfect condition, seems software-related. | 22:03 |
| Estel_ | the same way, many times, after disconnecting from mass-storage, my MyDocs isn't mounted - so I use script for manual mounting, if such thing happen. | 22:04 |
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| Estel_ | Would like to use same method for kicking it into usb mass storage mode, when it deny it | 22:04 |
| psycho_oreos | something to do with ke-recv | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: what do you think why access to bq27200 via i2cget is safe, while bq27200.ko module either rebots or kills the hardware? Only because the bq27200 module is poorly written and the patch is making that even worse. There are better ways to implement the bq27200.ko so it acts exactly like i2cget, and this will allow loading of the module without stopping bme and without causing reboots. That is why this patch is *absolute bullshit* - it | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't fix things but makes them worse, and there's no excuse whatsoever to proliferate it to users other than the one who wrote that crap, NO MATTER how many warning tags you attach to this dangerous version, no matter how many padlocks you add | 22:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and the patch to implement that is only marginally more complex than the one that needs this echo 1>foobar lock, damn probably incl this safety lock the whole thing is more complex than a proper fix. The key is (I said this before, maybe it went unnoticed with all my shouting) that the bq27200.ko module mustn't open the i2c-dev exclusively on loading, but simply opens it immediately before it reads a value from bq-chip, then closes it again. | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | If I2C-bus is occupied in that very moment (the sutuation where now a collision would occur, yielding bogus values at very least), the bq27200.ko module should return -EAGAIN for the read() trying to read out a value from sysfs node. Immediately after (trying) read from bq-chip the module shall close and free the i2c-bus again. BME can handle occasional failed reads, and it's up to your app reading from /sys/bq27200/* to do the same then. | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Result: peaceful coexistence, no kernel reboots, no collisions killing hardware; patch: ~20 lines | 22:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there is no justification whatsoever to do it the dangerous way like in kernel-cfs, not even when there are additional safety measures implemented | 22:23 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: But why would pali then go through all the trouble of intercepting and redirecting ioctls, when the solution is that simple? | 22:24 |
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| idont | *Do note that I haven't looked through the bq27x00_battery module's code* | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | and of course you are free to use that hw-killing kernel anyway, and I'm far from teachering you. But that kernel shouldn't be available for general public | 22:25 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not entirely sure there's such a concept as non-exclusive access by a kernel module.. | 22:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | idont: because that'S the *clean* way, while my suggestion is a dirty hack still, but a working dirty hack | 22:25 |
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| idont | DocScrutinizer: fair enough | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: probably there isn't, indeed | 22:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nevertheless during module_init the bq27200 somehow opens/allocates the bq27200 chip and that makes /dev/i2c-2 reject access to that chip. The code inside bq27200.ko doing this (and reverting it on module unload) must be exploitable somehow | 22:28 |
| ShadowJK | It's part of the thing that makes no two kernel modules being able to hold the same device simultaneously | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:28 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: what about a seperate kernel build with the patch enabled, only available over at kernel-bfs' garage page and thus not easily accessible by the general public. Combining this with the said arguments (the patch being optional, disabled by default, and device-specific), would you find it in your heart to have peace with the subject, just until the proper fix has been finished? | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, of course | 22:29 |
| idont | Okay, I'll make that happen right away then. I'm really sorry for getting your nerves up, that wasn't my intention of course. | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are more dirty kernels around than anybody could count - the key is not to make them available to ignorant users | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | idont: I am sorry to get THAT upset about it | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | whole aegis situation that probably been caused by events like that made it worse for me | 22:32 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah :/ | 22:32 |
| idont | DocScrutinizer: no problem, you've got your reasons :-) | 22:33 |
| mintux1 | I want ssh service run when n900 come up | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux1: it does, in standard config | 22:34 |
| mintux1 | but in mine I should run it manually | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, so you probably added that on purpose | 22:35 |
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| Sc0rpius | yeah maybe you installed that OpenSSH selector or something | 22:36 |
| Sc0rpius | I forgot the name of that | 22:36 |
| Sc0rpius | but standard it's always running | 22:36 |
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| Sc0rpius | so have you heard of that Meltemi OS for Nokia low-end phones? | 22:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure | 22:38 |
| Sc0rpius | actually that's a step in the right direction | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like maemo-light | 22:39 |
| Sc0rpius | now they should ditch WP7 | 22:39 |
| psycho_oreos | slowly but surely | 22:39 |
| mintux1 | Estel_: I tried dbus-switchboard but it doesn't work too :-( | 22:39 |
| RST38h | Apps on Nokia Store had 2.5 times more downloads in the second quarter of 2011 than did apps on Apples App Store | 22:42 |
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| Estel_ | hi therep I was off, just went through logs | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I absolutely get Your reasons and agree with it, and I would be first to advocate inclusion of Your "dirty" hack for opening and closing i2c access | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | when something like that would be available | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | unfortunatelly, I'm unable to write that ~20 lines of code You mentioned. | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui idont will look into it | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | or not, dunno | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, if You would write such small patch for bq27x00_battery.ko I would be eternally grateful. | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | fact is, for now "nobody" needs the bq27200 kernel module anyway, so best option is to not even include it to kernel, or simply ignore and not load it | 23:06 |
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| Estel_ | Anyway, when I suggested 412b to use such a i2c-like way of gathering real battery info in his advanced-power-monitor, he answered that it would be too much reaource intensive | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | so I'm not 100% sure, if You're right that it's so simple solution | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | thats why I think iDont should not delete this option, until proper fix is introduced. | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | the simplest solution for now is to use i2cget, as is done in my err *cough* shadowjk's bw27200.sh script | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 23:08 |
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| ShadowJK | Wish someone would just make the replacement battery applets access bq27200 through i2c-dev instead of sysfs :P | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | as stated above, for now nobody needs /sys/bq27200/* and it better stays that way as long as we got no proper module implementation | 23:08 |
| idont | Estel_: the i2c-battery-sysfs patch will be disabled in the repo version of kernel-bfs. An exact same build with the patch enabled will be available from kernel-bfs' garage page. This seems to be the best compromise until we've got a proper fix. | 23:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oooh there acrually is "somebody" who needs the bq27200/ sysnodes? replacement-battery-applet? too bad, see what happens when you publish APIs based on broken design | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | I see idont . But isn't it much more hassle for You, and restraining users freedom a little? You know, forcing to use garage instead repo, for something *DISABLED* by default, that someone can enable if she/he wish | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, You have not answered my questin about resource-intensivity of Your approach to act like i2cget | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't see any impact on resource demand | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | as stated above ;) 412b deny to use that way for gathering info for adevanced-power-monitor, as it seems to be reource heavy | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | after all you'd not want to read out bq27200 more frequently than maybe max every other second | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | You know, applet must pool such data quite often. Anyway, im just quoting | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | thought about same thing | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | so the additional open/close is negligible | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | but I'm not coder, so I rely on what he said. | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | this concern suggests he's doing sth terribly wrong | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | idont, for me using garage page isn't a problem, but I still don't get the thing with restraining people to access something that is clearly stated as dangerous, cause possible hardware damage etc and depreciated. | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | maybe | 23:13 |
| * Estel_ will try to find appropriate post | 23:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | a system("i2cdump 2 0x55") every 5 seconds is no problem regarding any resource demand | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | neither is a readout from a *proper* /sys/bq27200/capacity sysnode | 23:15 |
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| idont | Estel_: Yes, it is a bit more hassle for me. I'm even putting my personal opinion aside. However, if there are such strong feelings against including a patch like this, then I'm willing to just that. Those really interested in the patch won't mind downloading the debs manually. | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | It's very interesting, and probably important | 23:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if the app fails to implemet proper refresh cycle management (I.E. have a timer to call once it every 30s to update battery state, only when visible) then that's the problem of that app - not any resource hungry access to bq27200 | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | idont: even on extras-devel apps that deliberately risk to kill the hardware are not allowed afaik | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | I'll try to talk about it with 412b. Anyway, I think it would be best to include proper fix that ShadowJK is suggesting | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | hey, rootsh is allowed ;) | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | using proper command You can kill device | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? that isn't dangerous to hw in any way | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | like vi_ russian roulette | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | overclocking too much is dangerous | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: I'm immediately stopping to answer this. It's not leading anywhere | 23:19 |
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| Estel_ | really, dont treat people like idiots, even if they are. | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | no problem. | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I agree the combination of PK_with_OC plus the OC-GUI should be banned as well | 23:20 |
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| Estel_ | I'm just talking that it is IMO not good to deny something to people willing taking risk, just beause YOU tyhink it should be banned. | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | You know, joy of Open Source is that no one should dictate what is ok. | 23:21 |
| Estel_ | bfs sheulder wasn't accepted upstream, but there are people using it. | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem with OC stuff is you can't exactly tell who's the culprit and also there are claims it serves a certain purpose that **can not reached otherwise**, which is not the case for the bq27200.ko patch | 23:21 |
| Estel_ | I just don't like when one person try to restrain others, when they don't pose danger to others. | 23:21 |
| Estel_ | currently, bq patch serves purpose of serving as data source for battery status menu applet, that can show extremely precise data about battery state, when fuel gauge is calibrated properly. | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | I would be first to advocate replacing this module with proper fix, if anyone dare to implement that. | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | I would, but I don't have enough knowledge :( | 23:23 |
| psycho_oreos | There are those who takes risks, and then you see them asking for help with very little usable battery life. There are those who don't take risks, and still benefit from the usual usable battery life | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | You say that it is 20 line of code | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | for bq27200.ko there's a documented (since 2h ;-D) alternative way that has no risks for hardware, and risk for hardware is a dirty collateral damage of that bq27200, while for OC it's more or less the purpose. So the two cases differ quite a bit | 23:23 |
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| Estel_ | but You "waste" 100 lines on irc, just to restrain others for using shitty, bad, nut only one availabe solution ATM | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | ok, agreed. | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | but that alternative way wasn't implemented. I would love to test it *nd advocate it, it is written already | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | I really dont like current solution either, but it seems no one knowledgeable want to fix it - by fizxing bq module or implementing workaround by i2cget | 23:25 |
| Estel_ | I would 100% agree with You advocating to ban currwnt solution, if, at the meantime, You would public other, safe solution. | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | before that, it's just banning without giving alternative solution. Mind that not everybody is coder able to implement proper way of soing it. | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | You'rw giving us great, alternative solution and I appreciate that, but without implementation for it, it is not replacement for current bad, shitty solution. | 23:27 |
| Estel_ | I hope You get my point without blood pressure variations ;) | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | my blood pressure is all OK :-D | 23:27 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: aegis | 23:28 |
| * hiemanshu watches the BP rise | 23:28 | |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 23:28 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Why are you wasting time arguing with this guy? | 23:29 |
| idont | Estel_: Whilst I fully agree with you, the truth is that there indeed are many ignorant users. Even though I personally think it should not be done, maintaining a seperate build seems the best compromise (available to those who want it/more difficult to get for the more ignorant people) | 23:29 |
| Estel_ | btw psycho_oreos , thanks for hint about mass storage mode | 23:29 |
| Estel_ | idont, it's fine with me | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: alas I'm not set up here to do kernel development right atm, if only for missing free storage on disk and missing bucks for a fresh HDD | 23:29 |
| Estel_ | RST38h, does I feel some "elitarish" thinkingfrom Your side? | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | I see DocScrutinizer | 23:30 |
| idont | Estel_: Glad to hear that :). Gosh, I really started some discussion by implementing a feature I don't even use myself :-P | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | hahaha | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | joy of mainaining something | 23:30 |
| RST38h | No, Estel_ you feels regularish trolololo | 23:30 |
| psycho_oreos | Estel_, did you find the answer from that hint? :) | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | psycho_oreos, unfortunatelly not yet. It's strangw cause reboot always fix that | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | RST38h, sorry for my english. I mean that You sounded like someone talking from "high elite position" | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | anyway, RST38h I don't think dissing someone is a way of civilized, meritocratic discussion. | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | even if You think I'm talking shit. | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | I would just retain my right to disagree about patch, that I think is shitty written myself :D | 23:33 |
| RST38h | Estel:It is only meritocratic if you have proven your merit | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | IMO i've proved that think disabled by default, only enabled if user do some echo, knowing all the risk - is ok | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | I'm enjoying freedom of choice. | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | But, we may disagree here. | 23:33 |
| idont | -bfs7 has been pushed to Maemo's autobuilder, it should pop up in Maemo's repositories in about half an hour or so. -bfs6 (with the i2c patch enabled) can still be found at kernel-bfs' garage page | 23:33 |
| RST38h | But it does not really matter. What matters is that you have not been able to let go of the topic for the last 3+ hours or so. | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: we all got your point of user being free to do what he likes, but see - even idont changed his mind somewhat and agreed to not publish it via extras-devel (the "power-users' extras repo" nowadays). His reasoning is completely in line with my concerns | 23:34 |
| Estel_ | we have been talking \out this, then I was out for a hour or so... | 23:34 |
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| idont | RST38: It is hard to let a topic go if there's still a disagreement. I suffer from that too | 23:34 |
| Estel_ | hehe, he agrees because outcry after this, stating that he don't agree with it, just to make things less agressive ;) | 23:35 |
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| idont | RST38h: ^ | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | RST38h, we can not agree, but I don't feel like dissing You and naming like troll etc. If we're into meritocratic, dissing someone is pure Sophism. | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | but, we can just let go that pathetic matter? | 23:35 |
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| Estel_ | I got my personal opinion about such uncivilized behavior. It does not make me not want to co-operate with You in future, anyway ;) | 23:36 |
| Estel_ | Still, my young son is calling me, so I'm off. | 23:36 |
| Estel_ | so bye for now, and peace please. We don't need to mock up each other, IMO. | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine, so problem solved, everybody happy (more or less), todo list for the next 5 years done and agreed upon, let's have some RL - it's WEEKEND fellas! | 23:37 |
| Estel_ | yea ;) | 23:37 |
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| idont | Hehe, I've been asked to come down to a friend's house about two hours ago :-P. Seems like I should get going too. Have a nice weekend all! | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cya idoru | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | idont | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: doesn't help to shout or ignore people, if you want to convince them | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | so as estel obviously didn't troll on purpose (though it looked to me like he did, for a short moment), I prefer to try and get the matter discussed to an end | 23:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw estel been quite helpful on a number of tmo threads | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | so while his merits clearly aren't based on sw development experience, he gained some merits for common sense and a helping attitude | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem here is to explain the idea of "poisonous code" | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | to somebody not into sw development that much | 23:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's obviously not easy to explain why rat poison that looks like cookies mustn't be sold in a supermarket, no matter how explicit and bold the warning printed on the box, and how hard it is to open the box | 23:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and that analogy only covers the end user aspect, not the developer side, when packages like communtiy-battery-applet (or whatever the name) depend on that poisonous feature | 23:51 |
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