IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-09-26

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threshso, I want to build a package for N900/fremantle, and I don't really want to use scratchbox. Is there any other way to build binaries for fremantle then?10:24
dangergrrlyou can build on the n900 itself if you are a masochist :P10:25
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threshheh10:25
keriodangergrrl: well, it's still better than installing scratchbox :)10:25
threshindeed10:26
dangergrrli have a 32 bit ubuntu vm for running scratchbox on this machine which mainly runs 64 bit funtoo10:28
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dangergrrli could maybe get it all working in funtoo but the instructions assume a .deb based 32 bit linux host10:29
threshyeah I'm not on debian.10:29
kerioperhaps a better question is "why aren't you on debian?"10:30
threshtoo lazy to reinstall :)10:30
keriowhy did you install something else than debian in the first place?10:31
kerio:O10:31
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thresh:)10:31
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dangergrrldebian uses kernels that are two years old10:32
threshthat's okay for stable.10:33
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threshI don't really care for $OS kernels as we use openvz so I'm tied to .18 or .32 anyway.10:34
dangergrrlthat's ok for a server10:34
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threshwhy would one want to use stable for a desktop or laptop10:34
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dangergrrlmost new hardware needs a newer kernel than that10:34
threshwell, openvz uses rhel kernel as a base with loads of backported patches. so not really.10:35
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keriodangergrrl: debian testing has 3.0.something10:35
dangergrrlLinux localhost 2.6.38-tuxonice-r2-danger #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Sep 23 18:06:22 MDT 2011 x86_64 AMD Turion(tm) II P540 Dual-Core Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux10:36
dangergrrltuxonice still doesn't work for me, gonna build a 3.0 tuxonice next10:36
dangergrrlbut this one has patches from gentoo-sources10:37
RST38hmoo all10:37
dangergrrltrying to get suspend to disk working10:38
kerioµ, RST38h10:38
dangergrrlmumu10:38
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threshprivet10:38
dangergrrlanyhow i switched to gentoo in 2009 when debian nor ubuntu supported my hardware and now run gentoo based distros on all my hardware and like that nothing works with manual configuration10:40
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dangergrrli also like that i can install a server package for something without it autostarting at boot unless i tell it to10:40
dangergrrldebian assumes you want to run any daemon you install10:41
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RST38hthresh: how are things? doing anything for harmattan? =)10:45
dangergrrlanyhow i like the gentoo way, it is good for me, perhaps not for most people10:45
RST38hno shit, I shudder every time gentoo is mentioned10:45
dangergrrli have a pulseaudio free system, hate pulse :P10:46
dangergrrlit has given me nothing but trouble in the past10:46
RST38hYeah, this does qualify as a virtue10:46
RST38hWith Lennart off to destroy Linux bootup procedure, PA is kinda stuck where it is10:47
dangergrrlcompiling with custom cflags isn't really the point of gentopo, use flags are the point10:47
dangergrrli also do not have systemd10:47
dangergrrli have openrc10:47
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threshRST38h: for harmattan, no; I don't have a device so do not care about it much.10:48
threshRST38h: I'm fine, you?10:48
RST38hthresh: Alive =)10:49
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RST38hthresh: ported my stuff to both Harmattan and Android10:49
RST38hthresh: Can now badmouth Android with confidence (well, harmattan too)10:50
threshwe all can10:50
RST38hthresh: Too bad nobody in the Android crowd will even understand what we are talking about10:51
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griWhat are you talking about? :P10:53
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RST38hTalking about a 500MB download that breaks every time your Android device decides to go to sleep (which is like in about 60 seconds of inactivity)10:55
dangergrrlloikl10:55
dangergrrllol even10:56
dangergrrlthat is stupid10:56
RST38hAnd yes, it was a totally legal game, downloading its totally legal data from its own web server10:56
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RST38hObtained from Android Market. So, no torrents or anything like that.10:56
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RST38hUsing Harmattan, however buggy, incomplete, and aegis-ridden it is, feels like opening a window in a dusty room after Android11:06
RST38h[no, it was not meant to be a compliment to harmattan]11:06
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kerioRST38h: a torrent client would be smarter, methinks11:20
RST38hWell, they have got some concept of "services" that do not get suspended11:21
RST38hSo my guess is the torrent client would use that, if there is a torrent client for android fo course11:21
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dangergrrli need to make the n900 last longer on wifi tether11:25
RST38hDisable IM11:25
RST38hStart by disabling Skype.11:25
dangergrrlthat could help11:26
dangergrrli have been powermisering the laptop and now it outlasts the n90011:26
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robbiethe1stWhy not tether it via USB? You get both charging *and* a good internet feed with less lag.11:29
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dangergrrli am poor and can not replace my usb data cable until i get paid11:31
robbiethe1stFair enough, check Ebay/DealExtreme though. You can get a replacement cable for $311:32
robbiethe1stbut it takes a week to get11:32
Siceloi have also been trying a few wifi things with my N900. i notice i can't get more than 1Mbps speed between N900 and laptop via ad-hoc.11:32
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RST38h+ cables suck11:32
Sicelodo u have any suggestions?11:32
RST38hWhere we are going, we will not need cables.11:32
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robbiethe1stEh, having to use SSHFS instead of USB mass storage... Ouch.11:32
robbiethe1stYou get like 500K, CPU's pegged, and it eats battery by the bucket11:33
Sicelowhich suggests that i should be happy with my 1Mbps?11:34
dangergrrli have gotten at least 2.4mbps tethering wifi to n90011:34
Sicelovia apn, or ad-hoc?11:35
dangergrrlad-hoc11:35
dangergrrl300kbytes/s reported by miro11:35
dangergrrlit was a well fed torrent of course11:36
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Sicelothis was an scp from laptop : 100% 9712KB 105.6KB/s   01:3211:36
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dangergrrloh, that uses the filesystem on the n900 too though11:36
dangergrrlmy bittorrent speed the n900 was only routing packets11:38
* Sicelo also dislikes power consumption for ad-hoc, wonders if it's any better with an apn11:40
RST38hThere is no way to use N900 for bit torrents and not waste battery =)11:41
Siceloas for me, i meant just ssh betwen laptop and N900.11:42
dangergrrli usually do not11:43
dangergrrlmy unlimited 4g data plan is only 5gb/mo11:43
dangergrrli torrent mostly off wifi11:43
dangergrrlafter the first 5gb tmobile gives me 56k dialup speeds11:44
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crashanddiehttp://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201109/JobDescription.PNG13:20
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infobotOkay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)13:35
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DocScrutinizerand moo14:21
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DocScrutinizerSicelo: (btter with APN) definitely, at least when PSM works and is at max14:30
Siceloah, thanks for info. i didn't want to buy apn and be disappointed :)14:30
DocScrutinizernot all APN support PSM properly14:31
DocScrutinizeralas no way to tell them apart, even a FW-update can change this14:32
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DocScrutinizermy D-Link DIR615 seems to work reasonably well with PSM @ max, but it's crap in a lot of other aspects14:33
DocScrutinizerfor mere APN it was OK'ish though - the stinky corners are mostly around DHCP and router functions14:34
chem|stDocScrutinizer: more like a switch with a bridge and a lable reading "router"14:35
DocScrutinizer:nod:14:36
chem|sthate it14:36
DocScrutinizerand no openWRT FW for the D3 hw rev14:37
DocScrutinizer:-/14:37
chem|stthat is the precondition for me buying a router14:37
DocScrutinizerthis one been a "gift"14:38
chem|stcablecompany...14:38
DocScrutinizer...of a friend14:38
DocScrutinizer"Joerg, what for do I need this one?"14:39
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DocScrutinizer"Doro, feel happy - you don't need it at all :-)"14:40
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DocScrutinizerswapped it for a HÜ scanjet that had no linux drivers14:41
* DocScrutinizer <---idiot - buys scanner without checking linux hw compatibility list14:41
Arkenoiare there non-networked scanners still?14:43
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DocScrutinizermore than networked ones14:43
DocScrutinizersame crap as those GDI-printers14:43
DocScrutinizerthe windows "driver" probably sends the control states for each of the 3 coils of each stepper motor14:44
RST38hSounds pretty hackable14:44
SpeedEvilI chose a better way.14:45
DocScrutinizerRST38h: well, hacking it is how linux gets all its drivers for crippled hw, no?14:45
SpeedEvilPick a printer that supports printing JPG from card.14:45
SpeedEvilPrint all things to the card, then pop in printer.14:45
SpeedEvil:/14:46
DocScrutinizerLOL14:46
SpeedEvilIn principle, there is a linux driver, but it has too many dependancies that would mean I need to swap out my system entirely, or deeply understand the driver.14:46
DocScrutinizermy HP laserjet P1505 works jusr fine though14:46
DocScrutinizeronly nasty: a zombie python process lingers on for ever14:47
DocScrutinizer:-P14:47
DocScrutinizerhplip14:47
DocScrutinizerwell, iirc I had to bang it quite a bit to get it to work - like changing permissions and/or groups of some devices etc14:49
DocScrutinizer(probably running permissions-relaxed would've done as well)14:50
DocScrutinizerI'm no aegis fan, but I never thought setting global permissions policy to "relaxed" is a particularly good idea either14:51
crashanddiehttp://eatliver.com/img/2011/7775.jpg14:51
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DocScrutinizerhehe14:54
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DocScrutinizerthough sheep or cows were more like it, rather than pigs14:57
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grilemmings14:58
DocScrutinizerlemmings have rather small ROI14:59
griROI?14:59
DocScrutinizerif you were ever to farm them14:59
* DocScrutinizer never heard of lemming farms15:00
DocScrutinizer~roi15:00
infobotmethinks roi is Return On Investment, usually used to describe one's own interpretation of a pragmatic solution, or just plain hedonism. Also could mean "Rate Of Interest" in banking terms.15:00
griI meant lemmings in a way of "all do the same without thinking about it" (like the cliche of lemmings is)15:00
DocScrutinizermeh15:00
jaskaalso a finnish dog name15:00
DocScrutinizer~factinfo roi15:00
infobotroi -- created by Thrae <n=generalm@c-68-49-121-90.hsd1.md.comcast.net> at Tue Aug 14 02:38:46 2007 (1504 days); it has been requested 3 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 39s ago.15:00
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jaskaroi that is15:01
DocScrutinizerbeen no banker15:01
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DocScrutinizer~wtf roi15:01
infobotGee...  I don't know what roi means...15:01
DocScrutinizer~dict roi15:02
infobotcould not find definition for roi15:02
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DocScrutinizerwtf?!15:02
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DocScrutinizer~lart miriam webster15:03
* infobot farts in miriam webster's general direction15:03
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DocScrutinizer~lart-tmo-lemming15:05
infobotlart-tmo-lemming is, like, http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting15:05
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penguinbaitwhat happened to LCUK???16:23
SpeedEvilHe's no longer with us.16:23
penguinbaitwtf happened??? how can this be?16:24
SpeedEvilHe apparantly took his own life.16:24
SpeedEvilhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7673716:25
SpeedEvil(and yes, his client is still up)16:25
penguinbaitoh my god,16:25
SpeedEvilSo many awesome ideas. So much energy.16:25
DocScrutinizerdamn, I wonder why his client is back again, I thought freenode staff Christel took care about it16:26
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penguinbaitI am terribly saddened by this, fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!16:33
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jonwilI think its also sad16:36
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ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/26/verizon_wireless_backs_samsung_vs_apple_on_us_front/ <-- lol17:34
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SpeedEvilruskie: neat18:27
SpeedEvilHangon - is n9-00 not something else?18:28
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ZogGIn April I wrote to inform you of an agreement by which20:25
ZogGTexas Instruments would purchase National Semiconductor.20:25
ZogGToday, I'm happy to report, we have closed the deal, making20:25
ZogGTexas Instruments and National one company.20:25
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javispedroyeah, saw that on the mail too...20:33
javispedroastonishing they'd let such a deal through.20:33
javispedrothought probably these companies are nowhere near as large today as they where years ago...20:34
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acidspunkcool, there's also a maemo channel :p20:35
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Sicelo:P20:39
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Sicelofor me, #maemo was the first channel i joined20:41
acidspunkI came here from meego.com20:42
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DocScrutinizerwhat, NS bought by TI? :-S21:05
RST38hyes, so?21:05
DocScrutinizerjust don't like21:05
DocScrutinizerdon't get me wrong, TI always made nice chips21:06
DocScrutinizerand also every now and then they had proper docs *available* for those21:07
DocScrutinizerjust one player down isn't a good thing in this game21:08
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RST38hDoc: Lots of things not to like lately. Many more to come.21:10
RST38hAnyway, I have got a more practical problem:21:11
RST38hswipe-down does not quit my application.21:11
RST38hsends it to task manager screen. the first attempt to bring it back upkills it.21:11
RST38hThe app is written in plain qt. Any ideas???21:11
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SpeedEvilRST38h: I noticed that a landscape locked app (angry birds) in portrait mode swipes left to exit21:23
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DocScrutinizerHAHAHA21:30
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DocScrutinizerdang, (apart from this being #maemo) that swipe-to-close thing could almost make me update to beta221:31
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DocScrutinizerbut given all the other (subjective) shortcomings of N950, I'm not exactly concerned about this annoying heaping up of open windows for each nonsense you have to momentarily mess with (settings, whatnot)21:33
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DocScrutinizermakes for a nice windows6 feeling at very least21:34
DocScrutinizer:-( X-P21:34
DocScrutinizerto me it looks like they only picked the top of the pile for each bad stupid regression they implemented into maemo6, coming from a really progressive maemo521:36
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Sc0rpiusswipe-to-close is a Meego thing?21:37
DocScrutinizerno c&p: picked from *old* iOS. No closing of windows: err win6, or andridiot? Strict signatures to lock down the whole system to store: apple21:37
DocScrutinizerslotmachine date/time-pickers: not really a regression from maemo5, only a BAD regression from MTF to QML21:39
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doc|homehttp://www.slashgear.com/nokias-cto-swap-could-be-its-turning-point-22181856/21:56
doc|homerearranging the deckchairs on the titanic or potentially useful?21:56
DocScrutinizercould be?21:56
doc|homenot likely to change the OS direction away from meego though, is it?21:57
doc|homehmmm, that was badly phrased21:58
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MohammadAG<SpeedEvil> RST38h: I noticed that a landscape locked app (angry birds) in portrait mode swipes left to exit22:25
MohammadAGit's swipe down with top up22:25
MohammadAGmeaning, with the orientation of the app22:26
MohammadAGso it's swipe down with the device in landscape22:26
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befordhey MohammadAG, just wanted to say thanks for the work you are doing on the Maemo Community SSU :)22:32
MohammadAGyou're welcome, but I'm not the only one :)22:32
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beford:p22:33
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: anyway yo da man to get out a stable release RSN ;-D22:36
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DocScrutinizerI hate to read/hear statements like "CSSU isn't for the fainthearted"22:38
DocScrutinizeractually meanwhile CSSU should be for those who worry about lacking security patches and unfixed bugs in stock maemo22:39
DocScrutinizerand for what I can tell from my POV it indeed is22:39
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DocScrutinizerthe changelog has quite a number of severe bugs fixed in CSSU. E.G. the CPU hog bug on short appstarter menu in H-D, which kills your battery and you dunno why. OR the fixed diginotar cert issue22:44
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DocScrutinizerand I heard of no severe new issues in recent CSSU for a few weeks now, so I think it's just about time to fork out a stable branch right now22:44
ShadowJKdoes cssu require power-kernel?22:48
* Sicelo thinks not22:48
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DocScrutinizernope22:49
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: how could it, it's about continuation of stock maemo by community22:49
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DocScrutinizerthough, if there was a severe kernel bug, CSSU would probably ship with a new "stock" kernel22:50
befordbut I think CSSU kernel enabled some missing stuff from stock maemo, right? ipv6 ie22:51
DocScrutinizerit's debatable haw much of PK would qualify for a stock-compatible kernel to ship with CSSU22:51
DocScrutinizerafaik there is no such thing like a CSSU kernel - I might be wrong22:51
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# uname -a22:52
DocScrutinizerLinux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux22:52
DocScrutinizer^^^CSSU22:52
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MOUDHey all22:53
Cor-Aino22:53
MOUDhow can I save my contacts to my SIM card?22:53
Cor-Aioh, wrong window sry22:53
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befordnot sure where I read that though, I could be wrong too :P22:54
jacekowskimaemo on N8 would be so nice22:57
jacekowskiphone itself is great22:57
Sc0rpiusimplying Meego is worse?22:57
jacekowskimeego wouldn't be so bad as well22:57
befordn8 runs symbian Sc0rpius22:58
acidspunksymbian is definitely worse. from a user experience perspective at least22:58
DocScrutinizerMOUD: no way22:58
jacekowskiacidspunk: i wouldn't be so sure about that22:59
jacekowskiacidspunk: maemo user experience is pretty bad22:59
jacekowskiunless you are very specific user type22:59
DocScrutinizerMOUD: your contacts are "rich" means they have loooong names, first name, nick, last name, addr, even photos. SIM has none of that, and max 100 contacts of name[22]:phonenr[18] or sth like that23:00
keriojacekowski: ok, from a nerd experience perspective23:00
jacekowskiexactly23:00
jacekowskibut even i need sometimes a phone that works23:00
Sc0rpiusoh I thought I read N923:00
jacekowskiand makes calls23:00
keriojacekowski: those are cheap23:00
jacekowskiand lasts more than 1 day on full charge23:00
kerioyou can probably find one for 30<currency>23:00
Sc0rpiushaving contacts on the SIM card is NOT a good idea23:00
acidspunkthen get an s40. those things last 2 weeks23:00
Sc0rpiusif you want to move your contacts from the N900 to another phone, export them23:01
jacekowskiit's about features you get23:01
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jacekowskiSc0rpius: i use MfE23:01
Sc0rpiusI wonder if Google Sync works in the N90023:01
jacekowskisomebody said that it does work23:01
Sc0rpiusit would be nice to sync the contacts with Google23:01
jacekowskikerio: thing is that i need MfE and whatnot23:02
keriojacekowski: well buy a laptop23:02
jacekowskikerio: laptop doesn't fit in my pocket23:02
kerioyou have the wrong pockets then23:02
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MOUDi see23:04
DocScrutinizerMOUD: if you want to edit your sim card, get a simcard-reader, plug it in to your PC, use $arbitrary-acme-simcard-editor app, maybe even use your vcards you exported from N900 to your PC and pick some strings from that abundance if contact info to transfer those to your SIM23:04
MOUDi dont have a simcard-reader23:04
MOUDbut thanks for the info23:04
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acidspunkwell I guess it all depends on what you're looking for in a phone, but symbian still has some key stuff that are simply sub-par23:05
acidspunklike the crap browser23:05
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Sc0rpiuswell23:05
Sc0rpiusa simcard-reader can be an older phone23:06
Sc0rpiusthat you don't use23:06
jacekowskiacidspunk: what?23:06
DocScrutinizerthere might be a way to edit SIM card on N900: use the AT interface via pnatd, to edit SIM card. There's gnokii and kandy that could do that, when you patch them23:06
Sc0rpiusI'm *sure* you can edit the SIM Card through the N90023:06
Sc0rpiusbut I still think it's not a good idea23:06
jacekowskiacidspunk: there is opera for symbian23:06
Sc0rpiusI mean coding the program yourself of course23:06
acidspunkjacekowski yeah I know. Still doesn't have flash though.23:13
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes - obviously (swipe direction)23:14
DocScrutinizerhey, there's no flash for N9 either23:15
acidspunkyeah... :/23:16
DocScrutinizerand there's a flash version on maemo5/n900 that has seen 29.7 security bulletins of adobe come and go23:17
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DocScrutinizerwell, probably not that bad anyway, as browserd on maemo runs ooooops... as root23:18
Sc0rpiusflash will be just a memory any time now23:18
Sc0rpiusmost sites default to HTML5 now23:18
Sc0rpiusflash should be killed23:18
Sc0rpiuswe're all making those Adobe bastards millionaires23:18
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acidspunkyeah but it's still used a lot23:19
acidspunk:/23:19
Sc0rpiusit'll die23:19
Sc0rpiuswhen something free is better, the expensive propietary counterpart always dies23:19
Sc0rpiusand HTML5 > Flash23:20
ShadowJKhas google figured out how to delivery ads in html5 youtube yet?23:21
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jacekowskiadobe crap should be running with minimal privileges23:21
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derfShadowJK: No.23:21
jacekowskiShadowJK: embed them into stream23:21
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derfThey don't want to re-encode everything.23:21
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derfWhat they _want_ is Flash's appendBytes API.23:22
jacekowskithey don't have to reencode everything23:22
jacekowskijust add adds before video23:22
ShadowJKAlso they want to serve different ads depending on where you are and who you are23:22
jacekowskinot a problem23:22
SpeedEvilAnd how many vids you've watched.23:23
SpeedEvilthat day23:23
jacekowskiyou just have two streams and you stitch them together23:23
ShadowJKAnd not the same ad each time you view a certain video, etc23:23
SpeedEvilI find I almost never hit a video the first couple of things on youtube a day I watch23:23
ShadowJKI hit unsolvable captchas first thing every hour :P23:23
derfjacekowski: You can't really do that well in HTML5 as it stands today.23:23
jacekowskiderf: you could23:23
jacekowskiderf: just send video file with ads already in it23:23
derfYes, that is what they are trying to avoid.23:24
ShadowJKwhat does youtube's html5 side do right now then, just doesn't play any ads, or redirects to flash site, or prevents you from watching the videos that require ads?23:24
acidspunkbtw wasn't mozilla developing new versions of fennec in qt?23:24
jacekowskiif you stich it at keyframes you won't have to do any reencoding23:24
DocScrutinizerderf: that would allow skipping the add part23:24
derfjacekowski: Still requires re-muxing, which is only marginally better.23:24
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jacekowskiderf: not really23:25
derfacidspunk: Yes.23:25
jacekowskiderf: lot of container formats can even have like two streams one after another23:25
acidspunkderf: are there svn builds to try?23:25
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ShadowJKmatroska has concept of "linked chapters", or something like that. Anime people used to use that feature to have single "intro" and "credits" file for an entire season. Player automagically stitches together on playback.23:27
derfacidspunk: svn? Mozilla uses hg.23:28
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derfShadowJK: Too bad there's no such thing in WebM or support in browsers.23:29
derfYou can also make a chained Ogg file. And the only thing on earth that will actually play it is Real's Helix player.23:29
derfacidspunk: In any case, you can build with --enable-default-toolkit=cairo-qt23:30
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acidspunktks derf23:31
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