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| Sc0rpius | N8 is great hardware | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| Sc0rpius | I hope somebody hack it to put Meego on it | 00:05 |
| Sc0rpius | or something else | 00:05 |
| Atarii | I'm getting a tattoo of 'N900 Fo Life' | 00:09 |
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| ShadowJK | N8 doesn't meet MeeGo's minimum CPU requirements :-) | 00:11 |
| jacekowski | and it has no fmtx | 00:11 |
| Ans5i | n9 is sweet | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | I guess it'd be cool, but I want more of a smartphone and less of a featurephone thing :) | 00:20 |
| Ans5i | hackhackphone :) | 00:21 |
| Ans5i | but n9 is quite hackable | 00:21 |
| Ans5i | but is it smart.. hm | 00:22 |
| Ans5i | it has smart features | 00:22 |
| * NIN101 whispers: aegis | 00:22 | |
| Ans5i | i probably lack perspective :) | 00:22 |
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| Ans5i | smart is safe | 00:23 |
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| Ans5i | well... safe IS smart | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: no way to get meego on N8 aiui | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: define "safe" (I admit I've stolen this stanza from a guy called djszapi ;-D) | 00:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: if you're referring to aegis regarding this "safe" thing, let me tell you a secret: aegis isn't about safety, at least not about what *you* would consider safety | 00:29 |
| Ans5i | DocScrutinizer... let's see. if i accidentally get robbed, i don't really want my data to end up to wrong place. | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you think aegis is helping on that? hahahaha *cough* sorry | 00:30 |
| Ans5i | afaik there is secure filesystem | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and how's that helping on your device getting stolen and somebody reading out this secure filesystem same way you do? | 00:31 |
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| Ans5i | password, i would guess :) | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw cryptofs is nothing we need aegis for, it's been around for eons | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: you're evidently a victim of MSSF PR BS | 00:33 |
| Ans5i | i think it was called aegisfs | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | Smart once upon a time meant to me being able to get stuff done :) | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | or more generally TC PR | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: so what? | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: if I call myself jesus, will you pray to me? | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | <jacekowski> and it has no fmtx | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | N8? it does | 00:34 |
| Ans5i | well, i haven't use cryptofs | 00:34 |
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| MohammadAG | they replaced "FM Transmitter" with "Play via Radio" | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | which I found very confusing | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: see: | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 00:34 |
| infobot | aegis is, like, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment." | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | not about your safety, about the safety of third party IP | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | and like, now it seems like there'd be about same amount of pain or more to hack N9 as to hack random android handset into usability, with aegis and the dumbing down of the interfaces :) Oh and lack of keyboard... seems like a general trend :( Oh well, Samsung Note might be tolerable, with that extra screen real estate they might be able to make a decently sized vkb, and maybe also fit some context about what you're typing onscreen at the same itme.. | 00:35 |
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| Ans5i | DocScrutinizer, not bad thing considering all the spy/malware. | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah sure, you get the spy/malware from ovistore, and it will use aegis to make sure no community written virus checker interferes with whatever it likes to do | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | Most of the malware I see on people's computers these days come from one of the top-20 technology companies :) | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | Sony comes to mind | 00:38 |
| Ans5i | let me paste too. "AegisFS is a FUSE-based cryptographic file system which implements virtual directories implemented as protected stores. This enables transparent integrity and confidentiality protection of ordinary files without the needing to use proprietary API" | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | That's a cool idea, but do they really need to lock down everything else just to have that? If so, it's too big of a cost I think | 00:39 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah and if I want to load a kernel module, so I can connect to a vpn, so I can access my email, there's theoretically a chance that the kernel module is tainted and starts accessing the internals of the crypto subsystem and compromises it, I guess =/ | 00:41 |
| Ans5i | so far creator has created tokens automatically for those very simple apps that i've made. | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: nice. And now google for cryptofs please | 00:41 |
| tomreyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx8qdVs7Ug http://nin101.uni.cx/N900/crypto/encrypted_home/ | 00:41 |
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| tomreyn | https://gitorious.org/maemo5-encrypted-home/maemo5-encrypted-home | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | tomreyn: thanks :-) | 00:43 |
| tomreyn | ust passing on what NIN101 told me earlier today ;) | 00:43 |
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| tomreyn | *i'm just | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG | is that an emergency call button? | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | oh, skip, nevermind | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't it incredible how you can sell arbitrary BS to users, simply by adding a few old well known features and labeling them same way as the rest of your crap? | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | Now, a really cool feature would be message encryption that didn't mysteriously fail as soon as some random dudes wants it to fail | 00:46 |
| * ShadowJK looks at RIM | 00:46 | |
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| MohammadAG | 00:47 | |
| MohammadAG | echo "/what/me/worry" > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG | riight... | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""WinP7-charger: A software that takes care about your phone's battery and manages to get the longest possible operation time from it" - HEY COOL SHIT! let's go for WinP7, it has a special software designed to give *AWESOME* standby time. Probably even helps when your device gets stolen ;-P | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | So if we could get a tun/tap module loaded we could run arbitrary traffic and instant messengers over the TOR network, our data encrypted over the internet until it emerges from some random exitnode, but oh wait aegis says NO :P | 00:48 |
| Ans5i | cryptofs seems to be gpl and aegis lgpl | 00:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HOORAY!!!! | 00:48 |
| * MohammadAG starts backporting aegis to the N900 | 00:48 | |
| nid0 | DocScrutinizer, fact is it works when people dont know these features exist. Symbian and Apple both prove this perfectly | 00:49 |
| MohammadAG | users need protection from bash | 00:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer shoots MohammadAG | 00:49 | |
| MohammadAG | backport finished, let's deploy it in the CSSU | 00:49 |
| nid0 | Symbian has had a boatload of features for nearly a decade that other smartphones are recently adding but that nokia never sold well, and Apple managed to palm off features that've existed forever by relabelling and advertising that theyre there | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, my DevN900's bme wanted to shutdown at 45% battery remaining the other day. Shutdown bme, start my own battery management software. I recovered that last 40% extra runtime! Genuinely, not like those fake Symbian/android/WP7 apps. This is of course also not possible on N9 with aegis in place :P | 00:50 |
| MohammadAG | agreed | 00:50 |
| MohammadAG | USB OTG is not interesting to users | 00:50 |
| MohammadAG | if apple did it'd be named something fancy | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | USB² or perhaps U² | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hey, on maemo we see same now: aegisfs ;-P | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so aegis is a good thing - it's giving safety back to user - see, there's aegisfs - <quote of above> <bla bla> | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, you can stop bme on the N9 | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG | you just can't start any sane power management software | 00:53 |
| ShadowJK | But then you lose battery state tracking and safe shutdown? :-) | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 00:53 |
| ShadowJK | right | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG | just wondering | 00:54 |
| nid0 | on a brighter subject, I really like my touchpad <3 | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG | is the TPM chip inside the SoC or on the board somewhere? | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG | I'm interested in knowing what would happen if someone f's that chip | 00:54 |
| javispedro | you can test that on qemu | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | it's a soc feature I believe | 00:55 |
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| ShadowJK | You know I actually predicted that bme would freak out at about 40-50% and go from showing 40% remaining to showing 0% remaining, thanks to data gathered by SpeedEvil's awesome ohm "battery profiling" script :-) | 00:56 |
| javispedro | they basically use both the ARM stuff and a BB5. | 00:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: bad battery? | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | bme should like adjust it's new 0 to be at the old 40%, or yell at me to get a new battery (but oh wait, can't do that with N9 either) | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, guesstimate, shutdown when you feel you've lost your battery :p | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, it's less than a year old! :) | 00:57 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 00:58 |
| MohammadAG | I hate how you have to pry open the N9 | 00:58 |
| MohammadAG | and the battery is similar to those on cordless phones | 00:58 |
| javispedro | more like "destroy" | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: inside SoC | 00:58 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, nah, I'm guessing it's rubbery | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | I saw photonicinduction on youtube trying to destroy a "body massager" with his hammer. I wonder if that's the same material the N9 is made out of | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG | isn't polycarbonate essential plastic-y? | 01:00 |
| nid0 | yeah | 01:00 |
| ShadowJK | It's plastic | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | so why call it polycarbonate? | 01:00 |
| ShadowJK | Marketing! | 01:00 |
| javispedro | it has got electrolytes! | 01:01 |
| nid0 | because it sounds better than saying plastic, and its a better quality material than your average typical plastic | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | It does have carbon in | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | polycarbonate is a rather special "plastic" | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - poly = polymer - carbonate ad it's a polymer of carboante groups | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | carbonate | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | I'd love a carbon fibre phone | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Fun fact. | 01:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | Polycarbonate is made from two gasses both of which are chemical warfare agents. | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's used e.g for all sorts of vending machines, as it's basically unbreakable and not destroyable by fire. Just gets black and bubbly | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, so the N9 won't be sold to arabs in israel? | 01:03 |
| nid0 | its also used for aircraft windscreens/cockpit bubbles, riot shields, and plenty of other applications due to being really hard to break | 01:03 |
| MohammadAG | I hope it takes dents better the N950 then | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | also bullet proof glass is made of layers of silcicondioxide based true glass and layers of polycarbonate, afaik | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | isn't N950 aluminium? | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | oh | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | more like plastic | 01:04 |
| javispedro | N950 is made of scratchium | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | the bad kind | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | the N900's body was better imo | 01:04 |
| javispedro | it attracts scratches | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | it attracts the floor for me | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | it likes to make new friends too | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | it met concrete tiles and carpet | 01:05 |
| ShadowJK | N810 formfactor, get rid of the metal door, make slider mechanism as awesome as on N900 -> awesomeness | 01:05 |
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| ShadowJK | Oh, the Mugen 2400 back door for N900, it's made out of a plastic that feels more rubbery than the N900 plastic. I quite liked it, because it felt like I had a secure grip of the phone | 01:06 |
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| MohammadAG | the N950 is slippery | 01:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus N950 basically has a terrible hwkbd: 42 key (N900: 38) but not really any better accessibility as key caps are flat on flat, while N900 (and N810) key caps are convex | 01:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nobody really likes flat top keycaps - they don't allow for "automatic" tactile feedback to center to the middle of the keys | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | My E75 has flat keys too, but there's enough space between the keys that it kinda works | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | and it's not glossy smooth so you don't slip off the keys | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | if there wasn't that small trench between the keys it was virtually impossible to type blindly | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | E75 has "trench" too | 01:28 |
| ShadowJK | though it took like 2-3 weeks to adjust to it | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | my M800 eten kbd was like that - unbearable | 01:28 |
| ShadowJK | in some ways the E75 keyboard is better than N810, and in some ways better than N900 | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | sometimes in emergencies all I've had left working has been E75, and discovered that typing in iptabels and route commmands with IP addresses in putty on it has been easier than on N900 :P | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: the vkbd is actually easier | 01:32 |
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| ShadowJK | I hate waiting for it to appear :P | 01:33 |
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| ShadowJK | and then the time it takes to correct typos done with vkb kills the remaining time benefit :/ | 01:34 |
| * ShadowJK is somewhat better on the N800 stylus vkbd using thumbs | 01:34 | |
| ShadowJK | maybe because on N800 the touch layer is so so much closer to the display layer? | 01:35 |
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| ShadowJK | like I'm aiming for the actual letter, and thumb hits the touch window further up away from the letter than I expected, and ends up in the wrong place? | 01:36 |
| ShadowJK | and the exact "offset" between touch and display varies depending on the angle you hold N900 in, which for me varies depending on whether I stand, sit, lay down, etc :/ | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, the max parallax error I can detect on N900 screen is ~1mm | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if that could cause noticeable problems with vkbd | 01:40 |
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| ShadowJK | It's not the parallax per se that messes me up | 01:43 |
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| ShadowJK | it's more that when I look at hte contents and don't see the surface, I'm fingers hit the screen much earlier than I planned and haven't reached their correct horizontal position yet? | 01:44 |
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| ShadowJK | in daylight I'm probably better on N900 vkb, in darker ambient I do much better on N800 vkb | 01:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah that may well confuse your motorics | 01:47 |
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| * nox- just saw http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-September/004501.html | 03:41 | |
| nox- | :( | 03:41 |
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| luke-jr | Gary = lcuk? | 03:47 |
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| nox- | i only knew him from here... | 03:48 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: yes. :/ | 03:48 |
| luke-jr | anyone know what happened? :/ | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Reportedly suicide. | 03:49 |
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| nox- | :( | 03:49 |
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| luke-jr | ouch | 03:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | He always seemed to have fresh ideas. | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Sometimes ideas aren't good ones. | 03:50 |
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| crashanddie_ | Please note that I say this with all the love and friendship I have for him: The last thing lcuk was talking about that dreadful night was messing about with Visual Studio. It's official, Microsoft's products finally pushed someone over the edge. | 08:39 |
| crashanddie_ | (Re SpeedEvil & luke-jr) | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | … | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | lcuk's liqbase was all based on Visual Basic last I heard | 08:40 |
| crashanddie_ | Hardly, he was a VB dev, so you can't blame him, he actually had a few code generators that would allow him to translate VB objects into C, IIRC. | 08:41 |
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| crashanddie_ | But there was a very conscious choice as to why he never tried writing it in VB, and only started out when he could do C on the tablet. | 08:41 |
| RST38h | Hey, he could not get VB on his tablet even if he wanted to! | 08:42 |
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| RST38h | "Native Client taps the hardware's rarely-used "segment registers" to restrict where a program can read and write data in memory and to make sure the program doesn't jump to code outside a certain memory range. Plus, it uses a modified compiler and a code verifier that restrict code jumps." | 09:14 |
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| derf | ... | 09:23 |
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| MohammadAG | are the mods MIA with all the spam or something? | 10:30 |
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| Atarii | spamcity on the forums today | 11:09 |
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| psycho_oreos | spam is almost wiped out | 11:57 |
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| internetishard | you guys ever have issues making calls or connections even when 3G bars are available because the battery is low? | 12:59 |
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| psycho_oreos | how low is low? | 13:08 |
| jiero | a 25 years old man who is 1.6m tall | 13:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | huh | 13:16 |
| MohammadAG | grr | 13:18 |
| MohammadAG | why does an MWidget's destructor segfault my app | 13:18 |
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| user | how can i expand storage for app install in diablo ? | 13:27 |
| user | anyone | 13:27 |
| user | i mean expand using sd card | 13:27 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: probably deletes some child widget, twice | 13:32 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Sure you have not deleted any widgets *after* passing their ownership to MWidget in question? | 13:33 |
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| RST38h | Or maybe you created some widgets on stack(i.e. no "new") and then passed them to your MWidget ? | 13:33 |
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| MohammadAG | RST38h, right now I'm not deleting anything in that widget manually | 13:51 |
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| Estel_ | hello there | 14:26 |
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| psycho_oreos | hi | 14:28 |
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| ErwinJunge | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_66KAOzXhU --> I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure the N900 is now the only phone with EEG functionality :) Hooray for h-e-n! | 15:17 |
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| psycho_oreos | ugh, its not a phone | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | WOW | 15:21 |
| ErwinJunge | The headset they're using is only $299! http://emotiv.com/store/hardware/epoc-bci/epoc-neuroheadset/ | 15:21 |
| ErwinJunge | I so enormously want one of those now. Think of the possibilities! | 15:21 |
| MohammadAG | I'm impressed | 15:23 |
| psycho_oreos | Possibilities are endless but in its current stage, all the programs made available seems to be at an infancy stage | 15:23 |
| psycho_oreos | USD$299 only if you lived in the US fyi | 15:24 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: today I was listening to Mix106.5 using Radio, and a call came in, but the dialer actually start to listen the radio instead of me! | 15:24 |
| jiero | lol | 15:24 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, Mix106.5? never heard of that radio station. | 15:25 |
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| MohammadAG | making a Qt API for that brain thingy shouldn't be hard | 15:25 |
| MohammadAG | what's the picture viewer? does it paint pictures from your head or do you simply select photos from a list by thinking about them? | 15:25 |
| psycho_oreos | the latter MohammadAG | 15:26 |
| ErwinJunge | I'm guessing select photo by thinking | 15:26 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: http://player.arn.com.au/mix1065.aspx | 15:26 |
| MohammadAG | pfft | 15:26 |
| MohammadAG | I wanted a brain QPaintEngine | 15:26 |
| ErwinJunge | The biggest challange is probably mapping the EEG patterns to specific actions | 15:26 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, bleh that's gonna chew me monthly quota lol | 15:27 |
| MohammadAG | what if I'm like | 15:27 |
| Estel_ | Hey, I would be surprised if current software for it can detect "left/right" without problems, not to mention thinking about certain photo | 15:27 |
| MohammadAG | FFS I so wanna rm -rf /* when I'm pissed at the phone | 15:27 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Except it may not be doing exactly what they say it is doing | 15:27 |
| Estel_ | at worst it would interpret this as "back" button ;P | 15:28 |
| RST38h | True | 15:28 |
| psycho_oreos | I really don't think the `app' is capable of picking up what you want to see in a photo to actually be shown on the screen, here is one of the `apps': http://emotiv.com/store/apps/applications/118/582 | 15:28 |
| Estel_ | Really, detecting brainwave patterns by such a devices and soft for it is pre-infant. | 15:28 |
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| Estel_ | I would not even call it pre-natal | 15:29 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: ;) I mostly use radio, but with wifi, I prefer the Internet streaming. wifi is cheap. um, I just hope one day everywhere would be like Hong Kong, sim with nearly free wifi. | 15:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, someday it'll happen in .au, someday with the great firewall of aust in the mix | 15:29 |
| marainein | is it possible to detect electrical activity in the brain remotely? with some sort of antenna? | 15:29 |
| Estel_ | As for wifi I agree, just don't bring us integration with China in 2058 *cough* | 15:29 |
| nid0 | left/right has been doable for years, I had an OCZ NIA like 3 years ago that with like 15 minutes practise could get pretty decent accuracy thinking left/right | 15:30 |
| psycho_oreos | marainein, no, brain signals are far too weak to be picked up by an antenna that's not directly connected to a person's head | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | marainein: Technically, yes | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | marainein: Practically no. | 15:30 |
| Estel_ | nid0 - true. That's why I've said "hardly" | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | You can pick up signals in a completely shielded room, using exotic cryogenic detectors. | 15:31 |
| marainein | are we ever likely to see advances that change that? would room temperature superconductors help, for instance? | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Not really. | 15:31 |
| Estel_ | I wait for bwtx | 15:31 |
| Estel_ | brainwave transmitter ;) | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't pick it up without the shielding. | 15:31 |
| nid0 | Estel_: I think looking at what you said, the word "hardly" is the word you actually missed from your sentence | 15:31 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, I've tried wifi radio streaming once, it was so laggy with higher bitrate audio streams that I gave up listening to live streams.. I prefer to record them to be pre-recorded so I don't have to deal with lag nonsense | 15:31 |
| Estel_ | nid0 true :) I've said "surpriaed if without problems" | 15:32 |
| psycho_oreos | Estel_, with the help of nanobots yes ;) | 15:32 |
| ErwinJunge | marainein: Why would you even want that? In such a world tinfoil hats would actually make sense... I for one would not want someone to be able to remotely read my brainwaves | 15:32 |
| psycho_oreos | ErwinJunge, could help with women you know :0 | 15:32 |
| Estel_ | no worries, brainwaves are quite easily adaptable | 15:32 |
| psycho_oreos | they like to know if you're cheating on them ;) | 15:32 |
| ErwinJunge | Haha :) | 15:32 |
| Estel_ | You can make You "patterns" more constant by practicing existing device | 15:33 |
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| marainein | aww, c'mon - if every inventor stopped to think about the social consequences of their inventions, where would the world be? | 15:33 |
| Estel_ | so, in times of brainwave remote antennas, "mind blocking" would be real trait | 15:33 |
| Estel_ | not one from rpg | 15:33 |
| psycho_oreos | that's why hobbyist devices never reach mainstream.. its because of all the `societal consequences' really | 15:34 |
| Estel_ | marainen - probably non-existing or Rapture-like | 15:34 |
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| * Estel_ is making obvious Systemshock/Bioshock refference | 15:34 | |
| * psycho_oreos has never played that before | 15:34 | |
| marainein | do electrical fields fall off in a gradient? what if i had an array of electrodes? | 15:34 |
| Estel_ | test it and tell us, then write open API for it | 15:35 |
| Estel_ | don't go closed source! ;) | 15:35 |
| psycho_oreos | like what these mobs did -_- | 15:35 |
| * Estel_ is suggesting oreos to start with Systen Schock 2, not newest Bioshock | 15:36 | |
| * psycho_oreos is referring to EPOC | 15:36 | |
| marainein | sure, it's not like having exclusive mind reading powers would be useful | 15:36 |
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| * Estel_ think that future will really bring extension of out-of-lab telepathic "powers" | 15:37 | |
| * psycho_oreos is trying to not get addicted into gaming, for once he has experienced of `falling into hell hole and meeting with the satan himself'. | 15:37 | |
| * Estel_ is thinking that if oreos keep away from crappy as whole MMO genre, he will be fine | 15:37 | |
| Estel_ | BTW, I always wanted to prepare semi-fake video with playing Witcher 2 on N900 (via remote desktop ;) ) | 15:39 |
| Estel_ | then posting it in Youtube | 15:39 |
| Estel_ | or even better, prepare another with some Ishit, post it on Ishit forum, then start gathering donations for the project *cough* *cough* | 15:40 |
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| ErwinJunge | Haha, good luck convincing people that it's real though. Maybe you should add some unlimited detail ;) | 15:40 |
| psycho_oreos | mind reading is quite interesting, imagine where people no longer will get RSI from using mouse all the time.. or a stylus or even having to use limbs all that much :) Its all battle in the brain. I mean you can imagine it would be convenient too to be able to communicate using just brain waves, and in the field of proving innocence or guilty, one no longer needs to go through excessive amounts of paperwork, it'll be polygraph reinvented | 15:41 |
| * psycho_oreos tells Estel_ its not a good idea to get involved in any sort of big games, period ;) even with the ones that does `grinding' which loads of games these days does. | 15:41 | |
| * Estel_ is already involved :( | 15:42 | |
| Estel_ | psycho_oreos, good point | 15:42 |
| * ErwinJunge points psycho_oreos at minecraft and casually strolls away | 15:43 | |
| psycho_oreos | hahaha you're not alone :) I could get rid of my minor gaming addiction even though I've been burnt by it one stage.. its like any addiction really | 15:43 |
| Estel_ | although I'll not opt for using something like that in law system | 15:43 |
| * psycho_oreos tells ErwinJunge he knows full well about minecraft, its like the new hype like every other game | 15:43 | |
| Estel_ | true, everything can be addiction | 15:43 |
| Estel_ | some more pleasant than others. | 15:43 |
| psycho_oreos | Estel_, I've seen a tv show I believe where they had a mind reader tool which they used to dive into a person's mind. Interesting however | 15:44 |
| * Estel_ is thinking about what other things he is thinking, and how it looks as brainwave matrix | 15:44 | |
| psycho_oreos | I don't think there's that much of pleasurement that can be measured in a tangible form from an external point of view really | 15:44 |
| psycho_oreos | pleasure from being addicted into something.. everyone has differing views really | 15:45 |
| Estel_ | fortunatelly, pleasure, feelings, emotions, are not objectively measureable | 15:45 |
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| Estel_ | hey, there is thin line between pleasure from doing somethiing, to being addicted to it psychically | 15:45 |
| psycho_oreos | definitely not when one is benefitting it from having experienced | 15:46 |
| Estel_ | chemical addiction is different thing, though, | 15:46 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 15:46 |
| Estel_ | I know, I know ;) | 15:46 |
| Estel_ | BTW, all discussion of mind readings bring me thinking about Lucid Dreaming | 15:47 |
| psycho_oreos | sleepanalyser? | 15:47 |
| psycho_oreos | :) | 15:47 |
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| Estel_ | thats one hell of interesting subject | 15:47 |
| Estel_ | hehe I've heard that some people use it to aid inmLucid Dreaming | 15:47 |
| ErwinJunge | This would hook in very well with sleepanalyser actually, since instead of measuring movement, you could measure the actual brainwaves... | 15:47 |
| ErwinJunge | Sleeping with the headset would suck though | 15:47 |
| Estel_ | this is fascinnating topic, really. | 15:48 |
| Estel_ | Would You imagine that when in Dream, and You realize that You're dreaming, You can keep being asleep by spinning around (in dream)? | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: many thanks for sharing this awesome story | 15:49 |
| Estel_ | adrenaline rush from realizing that You're dreaming can wake You up, and spinning around keep mind occupied and ease it | 15:50 |
| psycho_oreos | I looked at the photos of EPOC headset.. I can't imagine anyone would be able to sleep with that sort of headset strapped around them. Mind you I've gone through sleep clinic one stage and with wires hanging from my head it was already awkward enough for me to sleep let alone placing ear muffs on me head and sleeping with it :) | 15:50 |
| Estel_ | when You spin in dream, You're really feeling it, even body reactions are same. | 15:50 |
| Estel_ | brain ones too | 15:50 |
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| * Estel_ is thinking if anyone here is addicted to Neil Gaiman books/comics like Estel | 15:52 | |
| psycho_oreos | well pain receptors can be faked ;) | 15:52 |
| Estel_ | true, but spinning actually is quite complicated | 15:52 |
| psycho_oreos | err the pain from the pain receptors.. afterall the brain is responsible for listening to issues from the body :p | 15:52 |
| * psycho_oreos recalls of painkillers and how they basically work :) | 15:52 | |
| Estel_ | not to mention such complex things as tasting, smeeling or sexual feelings. | 15:53 |
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| Estel_ | exactly | 15:53 |
| psycho_oreos | its all the weird and wonderful things that the brain is capable of | 15:53 |
| Estel_ | yea... Explain why in Dreaming, time goes in different pace | 15:54 |
| Estel_ | I mean that, when researches working with lucid dreamers | 15:54 |
| psycho_oreos | hah as if I'd know the answer to that question :) | 15:54 |
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| Estel_ | did interesting experiment | 15:54 |
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| Estel_ | as eyes are only one part of body that is 100% active and do same things that we're doing during dreaming | 15:55 |
| psycho_oreos | I guess time goes at a different pace when we're sleeping anyway, it just seems like the whole state we're being immersed into (during sleep of course) is similar to that of being intoxicated.. Everything seems to go slow yet the scene sporadically changes at a rapid pace during REM | 15:55 |
| Estel_ | they agreed to move their eyes in specific pattern, indicating time | 15:55 |
| Estel_ | every second, the did "eye pattern" | 15:56 |
| Estel_ | for every Lucid dreamer, their second was 1,6 second of "real" time | 15:56 |
| Estel_ | I wonder if it depends on ambient conditions? if it is same for group of people nearby | 15:57 |
| Estel_ | maybe they're communicating somehow? ;) | 15:57 |
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| Estel_ | MAG, write us program for it | 15:57 |
| Estel_ | Pali, we want kernel module for that ;P | 15:58 |
| psycho_oreos | *shrugs* don't know.. but then that would also be related to six point six degrees of separation :) | 15:58 |
| Estel_ | haha | 15:58 |
| Pali | Estel_: what? | 15:58 |
| Estel_ | bwtx, barinwave transmitter | 15:58 |
| Estel_ | I want to put HEN upgrade into MAG dreams | 15:59 |
| Estel_ | or pull source code from it | 15:59 |
| psycho_oreos | o.O | 15:59 |
| Estel_ | (from dreams) | 15:59 |
| * psycho_oreos thinks MAG wouldn't want his ideas to be made that visible :p | 16:00 | |
| Estel_ | hey, musicians often dream of some music and write it after awakening | 16:00 |
| Estel_ | I wonder if it apply for source code solutions ;) | 16:00 |
| psycho_oreos | music is different, it relies on creative thinking.. coding is abstract and would require more logic thinking than creative :) | 16:01 |
| * psycho_oreos imagines a creative only side of thinking would result in a very weird sort of code :p | 16:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: ( was already awkward enough for me to sleep) Geishas sleep with their head on a small wooden "seat", not to mess up their hair. I think humans can adapt to almost anything | 16:02 |
| psycho_oreos | the logic side of the brain would see and think `wtf?' | 16:02 |
| Estel_ | somehow true. On the other hand, Einstein said he was dreaming about his research many times, and everything was much easier inside Dreamland. He even told that few things he remembered helped him in actual research. | 16:02 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, yeah its doable but that's because its a practise since maybe at young age :) Its not the same as say me telling you to start driving to work in reverse gear for the nest 3 days :) | 16:03 |
| psycho_oreos | s/nest/next/ | 16:03 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: DocScrutinizer, yeah its doable but that's because its a practise since maybe at young age :) Its not the same as say me telling you to start driving to work in reverse gear for the next 3 days :) | 16:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I have no problems driving reverse gear all the time, just hurts a bit in the neck | 16:03 |
| Estel_ | Yea. Prisoners in North Korea, or some China prisons (or USA terrorist prisons, reportedly) tends to sleep in worse conditions, even | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | (hurts) after 30..60min :-P | 16:04 |
| psycho_oreos | I mean heck, there was also the case where with Japanese women were made to wear wooden stool like shoes with some sort of toe binding | 16:04 |
| Estel_ | at least when they are allowed to sleep ;) | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Chinese, not Japanese | 16:05 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, sounds like you've been practising ;) | 16:05 |
| psycho_oreos | RST38h, my bad :) | 16:05 |
| RST38h | toe binding is chinese, wooden shoes (gota?) is japanese | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I actually did. The worst thing is drive dynamics of the car at high reverse speeds | 16:06 |
| Estel_ | little more thinking about cruelty in world, and I'm gona emigrate to moon :( | 16:06 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, out of curiosity, why You did it? | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | because it was hard | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Kennedy almost approved a project to nuke the moon | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 16:06 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, haha right. so, also out of curiosity ;) | 16:07 |
| Estel_ | RST38h, haha true. | 16:07 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, not to mention one could rev the poor tits off the engine due to very low gear ratio :) | 16:07 |
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| RST38h | http://www.cracked.com/article/153_nuke-moon-5-certifiably-insane-cold-war-projects/ | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, the Kennedy reference came just in time :-D | 16:07 |
| psycho_oreos | I've done driving in reverse but not for long distances.. like maybe only 20-30metres at most | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (I'll be driving in reverse gear end of this day, and I'll do it at high speed and without accident, not because it's simple but because it's hard) | 16:09 |
| psycho_oreos | practise makes perfect ;) | 16:09 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm sure defensive/stunt driving courses would teach one how to also drive in reverse along with many other maneuvres | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | sometime reverse-gear superpowers can save your live | 16:10 |
| psycho_oreos | lolwut | 16:10 |
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| psycho_oreos | I only know rear wheel drive's super power can actually save people's lives if they knew how to harness it but not with reverse gear | 16:11 |
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| Estel_ | RST38h, thanks for that link about cold war humour | 16:24 |
| Estel_ | I laughed my *** off | 16:24 |
| Estel_ | ... except for fact that it's true. | 16:25 |
| Estel_ | BTW, I'm no fan of conspiracy theories, but I'm indeed in doubt if they ever landed on moon | 16:25 |
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| Estel_ | not because goddamnit idiotic topic of flag. Rather by looking at close-ups of video with jumping astronauts, and dust from their feets acting like in atmoapheric conditions, flying around and landing much later that astronaut itself. | 16:27 |
| Estel_ | + the fact that even now, we're getting troubles to successfully send someone to moon. | 16:27 |
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| Estel_ | Well, at least faking moon-landing video is better than nuking it | 16:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol, priceless >>Nobody saw a problem with it--except President Kennedy, who thankfully realized the implications of Northwood (i.e. that punching yourself in the face as an excuse to punch somebody else in the face was not a valid military strategy) and ultimately rejected it. Most of the documents involving Operation Northwoods were de-classified in 1997, and are now serving out their life-sentences as conspiracy theorist porn all across | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the Internet.<< | 16:34 |
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| Estel_ | yea | 16:39 |
| Estel_ | actually, many americans belive that WTC was inside-job, lol | 16:40 |
| Estel_ | believe* | 16:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I also believe it was an inside-job, my plot is somewhat more subtle though. I mean we'll never know how many CIA undercover agents supported Bin Laden in which ways for how long | 16:41 |
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| tomreyn | more and more info keeps leaking about ties between 3-letter agencies, saudi families in the US, whom they evacuated shortly before 9/11, and those families ties with the hijackers, though. | 16:44 |
| Estel_ | interesting. | 16:44 |
| Estel_ | especially that good'old'osama was CIA friend from old times, at least until he told them to fo | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | they evidently had good info about 9-11 coming, and what bin laden planned to do. They preferred to ignore it | 16:45 |
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| RST38h | Doc <-- talked to pupnik too much | 16:47 |
| RST38h | Inside job? What inside job? | 16:47 |
| tomreyn | RST38h: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/15/former_senator_bob_graham_urges_obama | 16:47 |
| RST38h | No, I mean, the followup DEFINITELY was the inside job, but not the act itself | 16:47 |
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| RST38h | tomreyn: <yawn> | 16:48 |
| RST38h | http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-913-ten-years-on-and-a-long-way-down/ | 16:48 |
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| marainein | i love war nerd. he's such a spite filled jerk | 16:59 |
| tomreyn | RST38h: so unless i missed something important, this 'war nerd' guy is basically saying that the general idea of using airplanes to attack buildings is simple, thus whoever claims that it is a complex maneuver to plan and carry out such an attack in the U.S. when you're coming from a very different place on earth is irrelevant. | 17:04 |
| tomreyn | the link i posted is about some apparently proovable (I have not tried) facts which suggest that there has been a high degree of cooperation between a few saudi families and the attackers on the one hand, and these families and the three-letter agencies on the other hand just prior to 9/11. | 17:07 |
| tomreyn | so I don't understand why the 'war nerd' article would be a suitable response. | 17:08 |
| tomreyn | if anyone is annoyed by this topic being discussed here, just say so, it surely is off-topic... | 17:08 |
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| jonne | what's the procedure again for making skype work again? | 17:12 |
| jonne | can't find it online for some reason, but i think it involved deleting a folder | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | work *again*?? (SCNR) | 17:17 |
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| jonne | it stopped working like a week ago, without me changing anything | 17:18 |
| jonne | so i deleted the account and tried readding it again | 17:19 |
| jonne | but that's not working at all | 17:19 |
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| jonne | or maybe skyp is just broken in general? Nobody seems to be online on my desktop skype | 17:22 |
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| jonne | i think i'll just reflash the phone | 17:33 |
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| RST38h | So, is t.m.o finally dead? | 19:19 |
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| texasmynsted | I have a bunch of double quote characters in my address book. What is the best way to either export and re-import my contacts, or to somehow direct edit the address book in vi or something? | 19:27 |
| RST38h | it is in an sqlite database | 19:27 |
| texasmynsted | that is almost too good to be true. :-) | 19:28 |
| texasmynsted | is it password protected or anything? | 19:28 |
| texasmynsted | where is it stored | 19:28 |
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| RST38h | Targus to release new WiFi PAN-equipped Laser Mouse this September <== WTF? | 19:32 |
| nid0 | whats confusing about it | 19:39 |
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| texasmynsted | any link to more information about accessing the sqlite database with the contacts? | 19:41 |
| RST38h | google, no? | 19:42 |
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| texasmynsted | Not yet. | 19:43 |
| texasmynsted | I found links, but nothing helpful | 19:43 |
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| texasmynsted | what is the best way to remove double quotes from all contacts? | 20:23 |
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| eichi | I want to buy a sd card for n900 for easier install dualboot things. which kind of sd can I use? | 20:25 |
| jacekowski | any kind of microsd | 20:26 |
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| eichi | okay thanks | 20:31 |
| nox- | you might like a faster one tho :) | 20:31 |
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| eichi | nox-: means? | 20:39 |
| texasmynsted | faster might be better if you want to use the sdmicro card as your store for pictures. | 20:39 |
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| nox- | yeah for example | 20:39 |
| eichi | I want to install meego for developing and maybe meego using some day | 20:40 |
| texasmynsted | i.e. when writing to the sdmicro from a camer app, faster is often better | 20:40 |
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| eichi | Transcend Transcend MicroSDHC Class 6 8GB ? | 20:42 |
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| nox- | that should do it | 20:43 |
| eichi | class 10 maybe does not work? | 20:44 |
| eichi | there is a kingston class 10 also available | 20:44 |
| nox- | dunno, you'd `think' it should work tho | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: (contacts) isn't that a berkley DB? | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd go for sandisk whenever possible | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | texasmynsted: export to vcard, edit by <Ur_fav_editor>, re-import | 20:53 |
| nox- | sandisk better than transcend? | 20:55 |
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| texasmynsted | ok. | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I just know sandisk is like always-OK | 20:56 |
| texasmynsted | that worked, thank you | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 20:56 |
| texasmynsted | think it is sqlite3 | 20:57 |
| texasmynsted | though can't seem to find a way to connect to it via sqlite3 command line app | 20:57 |
| texasmynsted | but export/import worked | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | (can't seem to find a way to connect to it via sqlite3) maybe because it's berkley ;-) | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have a deja vu regarding this, seems it's not the first time somebody tries to connect to it via sqlite3 and gives up finally. I mean, when even barisione reverted to using vcard ex/import instead of direct access (iirc) | 21:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60526 | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=791359&postcount=9 | 21:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=791451&postcount=12 | 21:07 |
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| psycho_oreos | there was an issue with class 10 with errors being spewed out from the kernel. Users with stock kernel or kernel-power47 (or older) will be affected unless they have applied the class 10 patch | 21:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~hail nicolai | 21:14 |
| * infobot bows down to nicolai and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" | 21:14 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 21:15 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog" | 21:15 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 21:15 | |
| ErwinJunge | Topic changes should really come with a diff | 21:17 |
| psycho_oreos | eichi, I'd recommend buying reputable brands that declare lifetime warranty on said products, buy microSDHC cards from well known stores prevents any potential chances in you getting a microSDHC card with false readings on capacities. Also, there's tools like f3 (linux only) which can test to see if the microSDHC card you bought has indeed its stated capacity rather than having fake label and as a result fake capacity output. | 21:22 |
| psycho_oreos | ugh.. s/buy/buying/ | 21:22 |
| ErwinJunge | Hm.. readin the sources thing on the wiki, I found this snippet: | 21:23 |
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| ErwinJunge | Reasons for closed packages: "bme - Battery Management Entity: Security. A misuse of the could lead to serious battery damages that could result in liabilities for Nokia." | 21:24 |
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| ErwinJunge | Because people reverse engineering and tinkering with partial guesswork is much safer than giving them the sourcecode.. | 21:24 |
| ErwinJunge | I understand it will never be opened, just think the reason is pure BS | 21:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: that's been discussed ad nauseum and bottom line is Nokia probably has no (C) in bme code, and also sees no benefit in opening it up | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, that reason is mere BS | 21:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same BS as the supposed highly evolved sekrit IP in bme | 21:27 |
| ErwinJunge | Probably, although maybe that links in to battery sales? | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | truth seems to be: bme is a stinking can of worms nobody @ nokia wants to touch | 21:29 |
| ErwinJunge | Somehow that seems all the more reason to just release it and let the community clean it up | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | missing (C) | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | (just rumours) | 21:38 |
| ErwinJunge | What do you mean? | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | but see a lot of stuff done by e.g. Collabora which also probably couldn't get opensourced by Nokia even if they'd like to | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: I mean Nokia paying subcontractors for writing closed source stuff for them, and then Nokia can't just go "hey, we put this into FOSS now" | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly the (C) is still by the subcontractor and Nokia just may "use" it | 21:41 |
| ErwinJunge | Ah, yeah, that makes sense | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I've been told by sources that should know that Nokia seems to have no inhouse competence regarding bme (at least fremantle bme) | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a definitive statement is "looking at bme sources makes bleed your eyes and want to to rip them out" | 21:49 |
| ErwinJunge | Well, that wouldn't be a first for me (and probably none of us) | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can tell that's true by simply observing what bme does | 21:50 |
| ErwinJunge | Working with legacy code in a university environment (not the CS department) is "interesting" | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g it is accessing register #40 of a chip that has only 5 registers at all | 21:50 |
| ErwinJunge | Wow, that's remarkably crappy | 21:50 |
| ErwinJunge | What could be the reason to not release the neccesary technical documents to make an open source implementation from scratch btw? IP? | 21:51 |
| SpeedEvil | They don't have them | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | lawyers. | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | They simply asked another company to develop it, and they did | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | And they don't have a suitable set of reimplemtnation documents that are available and not under other companies NDAs | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | (plausibly - I have no idea if this is true) | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | each single line of code going out to FOSS from Nokia has to get clearance from lawyers first | 21:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | each line of specs as well | 21:53 |
| ErwinJunge | Meh, sucks. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | today's industry got raided by patent trolls, and lawyers are supposed to make sure nobody us sueing Nokia for using var names starting with "i" or whatever | 21:55 |
| ErwinJunge | Anyways, I have to go. Byebye. | 21:55 |
| Venemo | watch the movie "Patent absurdity" | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's obviously an extremely lenghty and expensive process | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia probably failed to set up a proper structure where employees are paid for sitting in the office and _not_ working for Nokia but rather contributing to FOSS under their own name and responsibility | 21:57 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, methinks that was never their purpose anyway. | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the whole FOSS thing from very beginning wasn't topmost priority for maemo, it seems. More like a means to an end | 21:59 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, actually alot of people didn't/dont know of Nokia contrinuting to opensource projects at all, since they all do it under own name and such | 22:02 |
| ShadowJK | like bluez :P | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | for bme they seem to have missed on it though | 22:03 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, this could be related to other NDA stuff that bme is basing on. I dunno | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | It's not exactly productive to speculate why it is the way it is. Fact is bme won't get disclosed, and we should be happy it isn't, as then we are not temped to reimplement same BS again. Honestly I guess any random implementation will serve same purpose at least as well as the closed source bme | 22:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 22:09 |
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| internetishard | you guys ever have issues making calls or connections even when 3G bars are available because the battery is low? psycho_oreos: very low (in the red) | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, BB5 might stop working even while OMAP system still can cope with the low voltage | 22:34 |
| SpeedEvil | BME will usually shut off when voltage gets that low. | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp on old worn-out batteries that have a high impedance | 22:34 |
| SpeedEvil | If you've killed BME, then absolutely that will happen - modem shuts off at a bit over 3V | 22:35 |
| internetishard | It shouldn't show the network connection in the status thing then, eh? | 22:35 |
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| internetishard | That's a booog | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | internetishard: it will shut down as soon as it tries to pull enormous surges of current for TX from battery, while APE will possibly survive the short dropouts | 22:36 |
| internetishard | Is there a list of acronyms like "APE" that I can learn? | 22:36 |
| internetishard | Rather, what book would include them that would get me up to speed? | 22:37 |
| Sicelo | prolly wiki.. Hardware section | 22:39 |
| internetishard | I'm just saying the connection shouldn't show if this is the case DocScrutinizer... Since you can't connect to anything | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | internetishard: I think it's been obvious by my explanation that this condition can be detected no sooner than when you actually try to place a call so GSM TX starts to operate | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I agree in that moment the phone connectivity indicator should show the fact that modem just shut down | 22:42 |
| * ShadowJK thinks bme, if not immediately, would shut down at most a few seconds later | 22:43 | |
| internetishard | Yeah, there I was trying to find a website for someone downtown at 2am with the 3g bars showing... I try like 3 times and then try to make a call to 411... And then figured it was due to low battery | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | APE is application processor environment here, aka "the linux side" | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: not if the dropouts are < a few 100 ms | 22:44 |
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| ShadowJK | if cellmo crashes or resets it shows up in dmesg | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 22:45 |
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| ShadowJK | but more likely in "downtown' network is congested and deprioritizing data to 0 :P | 22:45 |
| ShadowJK | at 3 bars I've also not been able to do 3g | 22:47 |
| ShadowJK | but then sometimes 1 bar is faster/better than full bars | 22:47 |
| ShadowJK | especially in "difficult" conditions :) | 22:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: would be actually interesting to see at which "open circuit" voltage of cell @ which Ri(cell) the modem starts to fail on TX full blast, and if twl4030 can or can not cope with the (duration of) brownout surges caused by that | 22:56 |
| SpeedEvil | 4030 is way lower | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC lowest battery voltage I've seen it running at is 2745 | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem with determining this is however that we got no means to know at which power factor the cellmo TX actually operates ATM | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe 3GPP defines some mandatory AT cmds to learn about TX output power | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | eh just download garbage and you know it's full tilt :D | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | (to limit modem TX so it won't add up to a too high SAR value when WLAN is operating same time ;-D ) | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the question though is: will it crap out on short surges as caused by GSM TX | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp when GSM TX maybe aborts prematurely due to voltage during brownout is too low for it to properly send out one 20ms chunk/timeslice | 23:02 |
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| ShadowJK | oh, bme began low battery warnig at 44% bq capacity for my crapbattery :P | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | maybe it's on to something | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite possibly | 23:03 |
| internetishard | you guys have the n9 dev versions yet? How do you like it? | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd probably want a scope to learn what's really going on with battery voltage over (short) time | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | :x | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | As far as I'm aware, nobody in the community has gotten n9s yet | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | (to replace their n950) | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | And there is no new firmware either. | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | those who did don't talk too much about it | 23:04 |
| internetishard | Sorry, I meant n950 | 23:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is no new (public) furmware | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | or wouldn't call themselves "community" | 23:05 |
| SpeedEvil | 2724mV is the lowest in my logs | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow | 23:07 |
| internetishard | so you guys have n950s? | 23:07 |
| internetishard | what do you think of the speed and everything? | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's close to kill-cell | 23:07 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: kill-cell? | 23:14 |
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| ShadowJK | kill-cell: battery dies | 23:33 |
| SpeedEvil | That's not the internal protection kicking off. | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually -nvm | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | it might be | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | thinking of something else. | 23:35 |
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