IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-09-16

kerioopen source *all* the game! _o/00:00
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DocScrutinizerseems they are working on it00:02
GeneralAntillesYeah, but it really should've been done for launch.00:03
DocScrutinizeryou know the game, it's always same00:03
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DocScrutinizerfirst roll out the product, then care about cleaning up last dirty corners in your sourcecode where your devs c&p'd TI's reference implementation00:04
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: don't worry, by the time you're getting it it'll be already open sourced00:22
javispedro(or the company gone with the Nokia executives having fled with all the money =) )00:22
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jierothere are too many open-source. as there are too many projects.00:32
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ioanhi. I wonder how hard would be to make this work on maemo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcDcAyW9JZA (Fully automated WEP hacking)00:37
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RST38hshouldn't let random idiots fully automatically hack WEP00:39
RST38hbad for environment, breeds idiots00:39
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ioanRST38h, too late00:40
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_trineRST38h, theres no harm in letting idiots automatically hack wep because they will only be hacking other idiots using it00:44
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yes, and maybe there's be a MeeGo app to go with it. :P00:47
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Sc0rpiuswow Qt is great, and QtCreator greater00:48
Sc0rpiusI've wasted years of my life coding in GLIB00:48
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javispedroarrrgh, the manual says "the Draw Buffer will always contain the latest representation of the00:54
javispedroActive Buffer as a starting position", but no, it contains the previous contents of the Draw Buffer00:54
* javispedro wants the damn updated doc00:54
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, hit the forums?01:02
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: how could the draw buffer be less actual than the active buffer?01:08
DocScrutinizerooh, double-buffered :-/ nevermind01:08
javispedroDocScrutinizer: doublebuffered01:08
javispedro:)01:08
DocScrutinizernow THAT is a terrible bug01:09
javispedroprobably somethign that I need to enable in one of the many fields that are listed as "reserved" in the current doc01:09
DocScrutinizer:shrug:01:10
javispedrooh, oh01:10
javispedroseems I was actually sending garbage on such a field =)01:10
DocScrutinizermore looks like docs are made from specs, like implementation. Only that implementation did miss an elementary bit01:10
DocScrutinizeranyway, bbl01:11
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DocScrutinizerBOOH!04:51
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ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/16/chumby_nettv_hack/ <-- hmm09:15
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eichihello. what IDE and SDK for pyside ?09:55
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harbaumWhat is wrong with the autobuilder?  It's building gcc instead of the cod ei uploaded https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/cacheme_0.8.8-1/10:06
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RST38hk13:46
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tomreynhi, i'm trying to get some help updating maemo on my newly arrived (but previously used) n900 to the latest version. is this a good place to ask for help?15:25
psycho_oreosit is probably the only place to ask for unofficial live support ;)15:26
tomreyn:)15:26
psycho_oreosso which part do you need help with?15:27
tomreynso, i see the phone is currently on v 20.2010.36-2, what's the newest stable release? (the one you'd want to keep everything important working)15:27
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psycho_oreos20.2010.36-2 is the latest official release from nokia themselves. There's no newer firmwares offically from them. Though if you want to be a little more updated (and going through unofficial channels), there's CSSU. Its not always stable (but there are times it is) and it has bugfixes that nokia probably were supposed to provide but never did15:29
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tomreynis there a way to prevent installing these non-stable builds of CSSU?15:31
psycho_oreosno15:31
tomreyni.e. only picking those which are stable?15:31
tomreynso there is not something like a rating system for these builds?15:31
psycho_oreoswhat may work in one case may not work in other, so its all really just a matter of contributing in finding bugs and getting the bugs squished15:31
psycho_oreosnot really, because people are entitled to have their opinions which are usually lopsided views :)15:32
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psycho_oreosand the updates comes in version updates.. each version they release fixes numerous things.. so you can't upgrade certain bits and pieces and forget others that easily15:33
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tomreyni'm happy to do contribute to finding and reporting bugs. i cannot live with a device which has basic functionality (telephony, sms, wireless lan) broken for more than a few hours at most, though15:33
psycho_oreosthis is why having current backups and/or spare N900 handy :)15:34
tomreynhah, i could hardly afford this one15:34
psycho_oreosugh.. s/handy/useful for such situations/15:34
psycho_oreoswell current backups would be the choice there then :) use something like robbiethe1st's backupmenu15:35
tomreyni definately will want to have backups though15:35
psycho_oreosand current ones ontop :)15:35
psycho_oreosyou don't want old backups that you restore and you realise those old backups don't have the newer data you have inputted prior to creating that backup15:36
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robbiethe1stYup; keep nice sets of backups, backup before you do something risky, and then rollback if it doesn't work15:37
tomreynso what do i backup, emmc, fiasco or both?15:38
psycho_oreosrootfs + /home|/opt.. but backupmenu does that :)15:38
tomreynokay, and to install backupmenu i do... what exactly? add an apt source?15:39
tomreyni've got a debian / sysadmin background ;)15:39
psycho_oreosyes.. enabling extras-devel iirc15:39
robbiethe1stYup, it's in extras-devel.15:39
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psycho_oreosyou might want to backup your current setup now with osso-backup in case backupmenu doesn't work (it shouldn't but its always good to have a backup made)15:40
psycho_oreosand once you have installed backupmenu successfully, backup properly using backupmenu15:40
tomreynwell i have a blank phone, isn't it as easy as restoring the entire software on it?15:40
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tomreyn...when something goes wrong15:41
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psycho_oreostechnically no, you can go flash fiasco alone but if you flashed eMMC, you will erase your contacts, SMS history, etc15:41
tomreynthere are none15:42
tomreynit's a blank installation, like a new phone15:42
psycho_oreoso.O15:42
psycho_oreosheh well in that case I guess you don't have much to lose15:42
kevin_bhello guys15:43
kevin_bdoes anyone have psx4m working with opengl?15:43
kevin_bdoes anyone *has*15:43
kevin_bhave15:43
kevin_b:)15:43
psycho_oreosthe backups won't be big with backupmenu for your case anyway, unlike those of us who use N900 more will generally have bigger backup files.. and tinkerers like me has huge ones :).. though if you used backupmenu you would save yourself some bandwidth with downloading of data anyway and waiting around15:44
tomreynpsycho_oreos: so my first step of working with this phone should be to install backupmenu, which is done by somehow adding 'extras-devel' to /etc/apt/sources.list ?15:44
tomreyni guess i need to setup a wireless connection first15:44
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psycho_oreostomreyn, the best way (well the maemo way) is to really go through using hildon application manager (HAM)15:45
tomreynwhich can be accessed thorugh gui, i assume?15:45
psycho_oreosbut if you decide to use CLI method, that's also ok as well15:45
psycho_oreosyes15:45
psycho_oreosI think its called `App Manager'15:45
psycho_oreosthough really adding extras-devel to `App Manager' will probably hog the device like hell for the next maybe 5-10 minutes after having downloaded the repository file listing15:46
tomreyni have a localized (german) variant, there is 'program manager'15:46
psycho_oreosahh I guess that would be it :) I am using global firmware with English UK as language base and English AU as locality15:47
tomreynyes looks like it's the right application. i'm setting up wireless now.15:48
psycho_oreosin fact `program manager' would be a more appropriate word than `app manager' :)15:48
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tomreynso i have four 'catalogs' (which seem to be APT sources): nokia applications, nokia system software updates, OVI, maemo.org. do i edit one of these or add a new one?15:52
tomreynpsycho_oreos: is there a how-to on this somewhere so i don't waste your precious time?15:52
tomreyni was looking for a getting started guide but i guess i couldn't find anything similar.15:53
psycho_oreostomreyn, yes you have to add a new one15:53
psycho_oreoserr.. lemme go find that wiki link15:53
psycho_oreostomreyn, http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#How_to_activate_Extras-devel15:54
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psycho_oreosalso, you should have a read of the information printed on top of that wiki page in regards to extras-devel. Not that I guess would affect you that greatly but I still suggest that you read it and take note should issues arise.15:56
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tomreynyes, i just read that i should backup before adding this repository to be able to add a backup software.15:56
tomreyn;-)15:56
tomreynbut yes, you said i can use the one already there for a first step.15:57
psycho_oreoswell its not just that, there's stuff like it may drain power excessively, cause bootloops, etc, etc, etc15:57
psycho_oreoserr no, I don't think you can convert that extras from the list of four repositories to be extras-devel.. I thought that wasn't allowed15:58
tomreyncan i use apt preferences to prevent installing updated but problematic software versions from there?15:58
psycho_oreosuhh I think you can.. there were devs talking about using PIN for instance or `pinning' as they refer the subject as15:59
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tomreynright, apt pinning15:59
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psycho_oreosfor me I use the old fashioned method of holding via dpkg16:00
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psycho_oreosalso aptitude (not available with the device by default) can also hold packages, etc.. too bad the ncurses UI doesn't work16:01
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tomreyncurses dosn't work in general?16:04
tomreyn*ncurses16:04
tomreyni was also told about 'power kernel' would be a good idea to install. but i guess that's a step after i did the backup.16:05
psycho_oreosnot sure but I doubt it.. not that I'm familiar with the variations of CLI based programs with menu driven interfaces. mc for instance does work, so does htop16:05
tomreyni see16:05
psycho_oreoswell making the backup with backupmenu won't affect installation of power-kernel as the actual kernel sits in an area where its not accessible for backupmenu. Though with osso-backup, it'll prompt you to install it (if you have the correct repositories enabled prior to backup and already have power-kernel installed prior to backup).16:07
psycho_oreospower kernel adds lots more features but its not completely stable and has its own issues16:07
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tomreynthanks for your help psycho_oreos16:22
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tomreyni forgot to say that :)16:22
psycho_oreostomreyn, heh nw.. too bad its not like tmo threads where I get `thank' tags tallied up ;)16:23
* psycho_oreos denotes that as not a serious concern when winking :p16:23
tomreyn:)16:24
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tomreynlooks like i'm locked into a vicious circle here: i want to create the apt preferences file (to apt pin extras-devel), so, as I read, I need to install 'getroot' from the 'extras' repository (which is already installed and active). But I can't seem to find a package named 'getroot'. nad if i could, i would not be able to install it (on the terminal) since that would require root permissions.16:33
psycho_oreosyou meant rootsh or gainroot16:33
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tomreynoops s/getroot/gainroot/, this might be why16:34
psycho_oreosrootsh I believe is in extras repository, gainroot may also be available from within the same repository (extras) but you can alleviate all that by temporarily (or permanently if you wish to do so) enable R&D mode16:34
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tomreynif only i knew how ;)16:35
tomreyni found the rootsh package and will install that now16:36
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psycho_oreoshttp://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode <-- R&D mode16:36
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scoobertronis anyone using zhaan?  I am finding is is crashing randomly and wondered if I was the only one17:00
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godmachine-x6what happened to lcuk????17:10
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psycho_oreoshe passed away17:10
mecegodmachine-x6, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=108895717:11
godmachine-x6psycho_oreos:: hate to jump in here and just ask questions. but i was trying to figure out what happened to him.. he didn't seem like anything was wrong that i was aware of!17:12
psycho_oreosgodmachine-x6, well it seems like mece is right on the ball there17:14
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godmachine-x6ok sorry for asking then17:15
godmachine-x6sorry for everyones loss17:15
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Guest3596hi guys is there a way to configure N900 only to receive calls coming from numbers saved on the phonebook ?19:07
hiemanshuGuest3596: I think pycallblocker should work19:09
Guest3596hiemanshu thanks for the tip19:09
Guest3596i'll check it out19:10
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RokSteadypsycho_oreos, DocScrutinizer51 (and perhaps someone else who helped me the other day): thank you for the hints... I've now fixed my headset: http://shishworks.blogspot.com/2011/09/nokia-n900-headset-white-m-lead-broken.html19:56
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Guest87354hiemanshu  that app does not support the phonebook :(20:09
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SpeedEvilRokSteady: :)20:17
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gmathiszis the N810 still receiving support from the community?20:41
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luke-jrgmathisz: no20:49
luke-jrgmathisz: Nokia basically prevented community from maintaining N8x020:50
luke-jrit's like 75% closed source20:50
nealI thought the big problem was the power management20:50
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nealpoky worked otherwise rather well20:50
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gmathiszthank you, luke-jr21:22
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unixSnobso I switched to an android phone, because maemo has only 1-sim devices.. and android os seems to be a piece of shit21:56
unixSnobhas maemo been ported to any dual sim devices?21:56
SpeedEvilNo.21:58
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SpeedEvilMaemo has inherent large chunks of non-free binary.21:58
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SpeedEvilSo you can't port it. (legally)21:58
unixSnobSpeedEvil: there was an effort to replace all those black boxes.  iirc, the only driver not replaced was bluetooth (and the drivers probably need to be replaced anyway if the hardware differs)21:59
SpeedEvilIt's not that simple.22:00
SpeedEvilYes, you can replace the whole lot.22:00
SpeedEvilThat's 'simple'22:00
SpeedEvilYou can't replace - say - BME22:00
SpeedEvilAs it talks to MCE, and a whole heap of other stuff over closed interfaces22:00
SpeedEvilSo what you end up isn't really maemo.22:00
ruskieI though people were trying to reverse it22:01
SpeedEvilThe effort sort-of-petered-out.22:01
ruskie:(22:01
SpeedEvilMaemo is basically ideally designed to frustrate replacement of the system components.22:01
ruskiewell if the base would remain the same(with closed swaped out for something semi-compatbile open) and the UX is left I'd still consider it maemo22:01
SpeedEvilThere are multiple closed apps and daemons, all of which talk to each other over closed interfaces.22:02
unixSnobMamona.. that's what it was called22:02
SpeedEvilSo you can't rip out one, and have the others work22:02
ruskieyeah22:02
ruskieI can understand that22:02
ruskieyou'de basically have to replace all of those22:02
SpeedEvilYou either have to reimplement the closed undocumented communication, or replace them all.22:02
SpeedEvilAnd yes, it could run most random maemo apps.22:03
SpeedEvilBut you'd need a new dialer, ...22:03
DocScrutinizerruskie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1006716#post100671622:03
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ruskieDocScrutinizer, so in other words... bash head against wall until your brain truns to mush22:07
DocScrutinizerI'm not going to do that - doesn't sound like much fun ;-)22:08
ruskiehehe22:08
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Paliruskie: all closed packages in maemo fremantle is in this list: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages22:22
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ruskiehttp://imgur.com/gallery/L8gdO22:33
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jacekowskiwow23:27
jacekowskithey fixed my n90023:28
jacekowskiat least that's what it says on carphonewarehouse website23:28
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javispedrousb?23:30
jacekowskiyes23:30
jacekowskii'm not sure what i'm going to get back23:30
jacekowskiRepair type: Manufacturers Warranty  Repair completed on: 16/09/201123:31
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javispedrofunn23:32
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RST38hmoo.23:48
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ErwinJungejacekowski: In all likelyhood, an N8 ;)23:50
jacekowskiErwinJunge: i've told them to make a note that i will not accept N823:50
jacekowskiErwinJunge: or any other phone23:50
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ErwinJungeHm... I'd be pleasantly surprised if someone actually read that note, but good luck. A tip if it does turn out to be an "upgrade": complain loudly on their facebook page. It has worked for at least 1 person here in the Netherlands.23:52
ErwinJungeThey sent him an N8 no less than 4 times before finally caving and sending him an N900.23:53

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