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javispedroGeneralAntilles: Nintendo DCMA letter in 4... 3...02:55
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luke-jr"and will be released for free (so we don’t get stabbed by lawyers)"03:05
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javispedroI don't see what's up with the Mario artwork. Not using it and never calling the game Mario anything is probably enough to keep the Nintendo lawyers away.03:12
javispedroThey could probably even get away with reusing the level designs03:12
javispedrohowever by now it's probably already too late.03:12
* javispedro saw a similar thing happen to a popular game in the PalmOS days..03:13
luke-jrjavispedro: they call it "Mari0"03:13
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ruskie <-- lol08:43
mecebut wait, will they actually make more and sell them at a loss or will they make more and try to sell them expensively (and fail again) ? either way it seems like an idiotic idea.08:46
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meceI'm guessing it cost more than $99 to make them...08:47
ruskieapparently bill of parts is 300usd or somewhere there08:47
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mecebut obviously nobody will buy them for $30008:47
ruskiewell if they sell them at 100usd it's less of loss than if they just junk them08:47
ruskieand they probably have a warehouse full of the parts08:48
ruskiewhich might be the reason for this08:48
meceah yes that might be trye08:48
mecewell I hope that happens, so I can get my filthy mittens on one.08:48
ruskieI'd like one as well08:48
ruskiethey are taking preorders from what I understood08:48
meceI actually have monies waiting in the us already O.o08:48
ruskiethough I need to save up for a thinkpad tablet08:50
meceruskie I sent money to a friend because i got fooled by barnes and noble that they had stock08:51
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ruskiehmmm I think shipping would cost probably more than the tablet itself if I did that08:53
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meceshipping to finland is $4008:58
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ruskiehmm or they aren't showing preorders hmm09:01
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crashanddiefor the touchpad?11:06
crashanddieruskie> hmm or they aren't showing preorders hmm11:06
ruskiefor the touchpad11:07
ruskieI thought they had preorderes open11:07
RST38h"As a registered developer, you can purchase an unlocked phone. [for $479.00]" -- Google11:07
ruskiebut I Guess not11:07
crashanddieI still have an outstanding order with a couple of shops11:07
crashanddieto ensure that I'll get two11:08
RST38h"Which will never pay for itself, given Android Market typical prices and sales numbers" -- me11:08
crashanddieI paid roughly 1200 instead of 30011:08
crashanddieSo I'm waiting to get the tablets, then will cancel the orders, and go for refund11:08
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fastaHow can I fully download all email from an IMAP server and then read it while being offline?11:38
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ruskiefasta, hmm imapsync/offlineimap/fetchmail ?11:40
Siceloif u want to do it using modest, check Wiki11:40
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fastaSicelo: is modest the name of the default email application?11:42
fastaSicelo: does upstart run on the n900?11:45
fastaI thought it was a pretty new system.11:45
fastaBy 'run', I mean 'out of the box'.11:46
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Siceloi'm a noob.. so not really understanding what upstart does. i think upstart is there.. at least mine says so.. or is it because i have PK47? i don't know11:47
fastaSicelo: what is PK47?11:49
fastaSicelo: I did flash my firmware.11:49
ruskieupstart is an init replacement11:49
fastaSicelo: to the latest available image.11:49
ruskienot something you would change with the power kernel11:49
Sicelofasta: no offence, but you should search. just now i saw that even basic/N900 does use/have upstart11:49
ruskieand iirc the init system used on the N900 is upstart11:50
Sicelofasta: PK is an enhanced kernel for the N90011:51
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Sicelofasta: hope i wasn't too rash. sorry12:17
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fastaSicelo: I can be much worse myself ;)12:18
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fastaSicelo: still, usually all questions could be answered if every user would read and study all pages on the wiki.12:19
fastaSicelo: but then the whole IRC channel would be useless.12:19
fastaSicelo: I think there is some kind of middle ground where an advanced user reads information in a completely different way.12:20
Sicelo:) i'm just a big noob myself... my N900 is 2 months old, lol12:20
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chem|stfasta: that's why ppl like DocScrutinizer ruskie and me are here... to keep you away from noobs and guide you to the right answeres... what was the question again?12:29
crashanddiewoman pays $180 for a fake wooden iPad:$180-for-wooden-ipad-its-fake/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-2012:30
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: :)12:31
Siceloi think that's mean chem|st12:31
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Was it made of apple wood?12:31
crashanddiesilly SpeedEvil, you can't make wood from apples.12:32
Sicelo10:38 < fasta> How can I fully download all email from an IMAP server and then read it while being offline?12:32
Sicelo10:45 < fasta> Sicelo: does upstart run on the n900?12:32
Sicelo10:45 < fasta> I thought it was a pretty new system.12:32
Sicelo10:46 < fasta> By 'run', I mean 'out of the box'.12:32
crashanddieSicelo, please don't flood the channel12:32
Sicelothose are his questions12:32
* SpeedEvil watches granny smith hit crashanddie a sturdy blow.12:32
DocScrutinizervisz: anyway it seems to me initctl *is* upstart, I might be wrong12:33
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Sicelopersonally i appreciate all the work everyone here is doing, for free at that. i'm just surprised by that :/12:34
xxxxtsHello - I am working on a Maemo project to help out the community (esp people who are not experenced)12:35
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: Sicelo: anyway it seems to me initctl *is* upstart, I might be wrong12:35
xxxxtsAnd I am having a little (well a lot) of trouble with uboot and MeeGo12:35
xxxxtsAnyone in here that could help me out with those two things?12:36
SpeedEvilWhat are you trying to do.12:37
SpeedEvilWhy. And are you, or have you ever been a member of the communist party.12:37
xxxxtsWell... the MeeGo image12:37
DocScrutinizerSicelo: see initctl --help :: >>Report bugs to <> <<12:38
xxxxtsNo, haha, I am not a commy12:38
Sicelothanks DocScrutinizer12:38
xxxxtsThe MeeGo image places EXT4 on mmcblk1p1, and FAT16 (kernels) on mmcblk1p312:39
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xxxxtshence the SD card cannot be used as storage anymore12:39
DocScrutinizeractually fremantle (as well as HARM?) has a chimera system, a blend of upstart and initV12:39
DocScrutinizerupstart is the core system, but it is using a lot of sysV initscripts12:40
xxxxtsWhat I have done is put MeeGo on p2, kenels on p3, and 2GB on p4 for NITDroid12:40
DocScrutinizersee /etc/events.d/ vs /etc/init.d/12:40
xxxxtsthat way P1 (if you have a 16GB SD card) will be 9GB of FAT32 readable by a Windows PC or N90012:41
fastaSicelo: it is not completely for free. The model is basically that certain users can get 'reputation' and 'recognition by their peers'.12:41
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: that's outright wrong, you can still use most parts of the uSD as storage12:41
xxxxtsnow I am trying to make a custom image of MeeGo/NITDroid so it is easier to flash onto a SD card12:42
fastaSicelo: if humans were rational machines, even then there would be some interest in answering simple questions, because it creates a baseline for communication with other peers.12:42
xxxxtsPlease inform me how Doc.12:42
Sicelou are right fasta. i respect them all, big time.12:42
Siceloin any case, not right now... i'm too happy for this. pleas12:42
chem|stSicelo: was not ment to offend you! not in your case but others it is like "pls shut the fsck up and let s/o explain it who actually knows what he is talking about"12:43
fastaYeah, I thought it was more 'tongue in cheek'.12:43
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: you already know the answer why and how, it seems12:43
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chem|stotherdays I just _facepalm_12:43
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xxxxtsby formatting p4 in fat 32 and mounting it to mmc1?12:44
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xxxxtsand also how do you expect to load NITDroid on there?12:45
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: along that line, yes12:45
xxxxtsIn theory it should work, however it does not12:45
xxxxtsyou can follow my work on this;12:45
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: note though that nitdroid comes with multiboot, and multiboot will mess up uBoot12:45
infobot[maemo-multiboot] deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED12:45
xxxxtslol, no12:45
xxxxtsthey can coexist in harmoney12:46
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: if they can (and I know *in theory* they could) then you're free to explain to us how to configure all this shit. You'd not have to ask here about it12:48
xxxxtsU-Boot and MultiBoot, I would be glad to12:48
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xxxxtsSay you're running Kernel Power 4812:49
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: sorry, you don't expect me to read up two threads on TMO to understand what you are asking, no?12:49
xxxxtsno need to be rude12:49
DocScrutinizerI'm rude?12:49
xxxxtsand you want to run U-Boot, or even BackupMenu12:49
DocScrutinizerwhich is completely unrelated12:49
xxxxtswell those packages are only compatible with kernel 4612:49
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xxxxtsthere's a thread12:50
DocScrutinizerhow is backup menu only compatible to a certain kernel?? it's a userland thing completely12:50
xxxxtson how to add U-Boot to exist with MultiBoot12:51
DocScrutinizerI'm not going to read threads on tmo to understand what's your misconception12:51
xxxxtsI am running it now12:51
DocScrutinizeryou're going to ask a question now?12:51
xxxxtsI obviously came to the wrong place for advice because you obviously don't know what you're talking about12:51
xxxxts - just look at $812:52
xxxxtsit works perfectly12:53
DocScrutinizerI AM NOT INTERESTED!!12:53
xxxxtsYou made a claim, you are incorrect, and now you're rude12:53
infobotsomebody said maemo-multiboot was deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED12:53
DocScrutinizerplease note this is #maemo, not #nitdroid12:54
* DocScrutinizer waves12:54
xxxxtsI am working on Maemo12:54
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xxxxtsand installing MeeGo and NitDroid on it12:54
DocScrutinizerBS you can't install meego on maemo12:55
xxxxtson 1 sd card with FAT32 p112:55
xxxxtson the N900 I mean12:55
xxxxtsand in theory yes you can12:55
DocScrutinizerplease STFU12:55
DocScrutinizeror ask your question12:55
xxxxtsOkay here is my question12:55
xxxxtsSince I made a custom partition table for MeeGo and I am using u-boot to boot it (I left p3 FAT with kernels), but I changed MeeGo to p212:56
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xxxxtsHow can I reconfigure u-boot to boot from p3 and the OS is on p2 (not p1)12:57
kevin_bHello dudes12:57
DocScrutinizeraha, ok.12:57
kevin_bHow can I tell xterm to have more scrollbackbuffer12:58
DocScrutinizerI think there's a file that has the uBoot menu, somwhere IIRC on first fat partition of MMC12:58
kevin_bwhere's the real $HOME/.screenrc really taken into account?12:58
DocScrutinizerkevin_b: edit ~/xchat2/xchat.conf12:59
kevin_bxchat? mmm don't feel related to xterm?12:59
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: exactly, and afaik you should be able to edit this file to define the boot process12:59
xxxxtshowever no matter how I configure boot.scr I can't get it to boot?12:59
DocScrutinizerkevin_b: oops, sorry12:59
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xxxxtsthe file by default is not there, it has to be created13:00
xxxxtsAnd it simply won't boot correctly13:00
xxxxtsor at all.13:00
xxxxtsI recieve a kernel panic.13:00
kevin_bnp :p ! So no one can tell me where is the path for potential usefull .screenrc13:00
kevin_bI put it in /home/user/.screenrc , FAILED !13:00
DocScrutinizerkevin_b: wait a minute, I have a link to an ancient thread about xterm13:01
DocScrutinizerkevin_b: might help, or at least have some bits of info where to look13:02
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xxxxtsSo do you have any advice?13:03
HardknoxI do not want to sell my n900 sentimental reasons, therefore, can I install on it some other interesting operating system to use it for something, eg, instead of the tablet?13:04
Hardknoxother os ?13:04
kevin_bYeepee, xterm is configurable by Gconf13:05
kevin_bgconftool -s /apps/osso/xterm/scrollback -t int 900 ("setting scrollback buffer")13:06
DocScrutinizerknew you'd like it :-)13:06
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kevin_bbtw anyone there heard of a qt-assistant deb package?13:09
DocScrutinizerxxxxts: you'll find the developer/maintainer of (meego)uBoot at #meego-arm nick: ali1234. He should be able to help you on the issue to get uBoot support a meego with non-standard partitioning13:09
xxxxtsWow, I am really impressed.13:10
xxxxtsThank you!13:10
xxxxtsTry to give people more slack :)13:10
xxxxtsHave a nice day!13:11
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kevin_bI 'd like to make a light qt-assistant for maemo513:19
Hurrianohai xxxxts13:19
Hurriani'm about to mount the meego image, check the boot.scr file and make a new one13:19
xxxxtsMan, this boot.scr issue is killing me.13:20
kevin_band I wonder, which branch should I work on? 4.7-fremantlepr1.3 or 4.7-fremantle?13:20
xxxxtsKeep me updated on that boot.scr, NOTHING is working for me.13:20
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Hurriandid you use mkimage?13:21
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xxxxtsNo, I know very little about uboot13:22
xxxxtsSo I was trying command lines in uboot13:22
xxxxtsand boot.scr13:22
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Hurriancan you ls the fat partition for me?13:23
xxxxtsI didn't want to have to reflash my phone (I got the N900 the day it came out, never reflashed once).13:23
xxxxtsyeah give me a sec13:23 config-2.6.37-24.2.DE-adaptation-n900 uImage vmlinuz-2.6.37-24.2.DE-adaptation-n90013:25
Hurrianthere's no boot.scr to be found13:26
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xxxxtsI know13:27
xxxxtsI did talk to the dev/maintainer of uboot13:27
xxxxts(ali1234) in meego IRC13:27
xxxxtsshe had some different suggestions - I will PM them to you over Maemo...13:28
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Hardknoxwhat OS can I install on my n90013:29
hiemanshuit has maemo, whats wrong with it?13:29
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xxxxtsHurrian - sent13:31
Hardknoxnothing, but i dont want to sell my n900 and I want to try other OS13:32
xxxxtsHardknox - you can install A LOT of OSes13:32
Hardknoxto use my phone for something useless13:32
xxxxtsand you can emulate a lot of OSes13:32
Hurrianhardknox, debian?13:32
xxxxtsNITDroid (Android)13:32
Hardknoxdebian ? :o without emu ? clean debian ? really ?13:32
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Hardknoxchrooted in maemo or clean ?13:33
Hurriansame with ubuntu etc13:33
xxxxtsHowever keep in mind - battery power WILL SUFFER13:33
xxxxtsand a lot of the dirvers don13:33
xxxxts't wok13:33
Hurrianxxxxts, oh crap13:33
Hurrianapparently kernel path is hardcoded13:34
xxxxtsdo you know how to recomplie it?13:34
HardknoxHurrian: thnx, ill try13:34
Hurrianxxxxts, yeah13:35
xxxxtsali1234 is really healful - I just don't have a Linux box that I can use...13:35
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xxxxtsHopefully ali will come out with a newer version that has that bug fixed, at least she told us how to do it.13:36
xxxxtsHurrian, you there?13:39
Hurrianokay, got this down.13:40
xxxxtsI came across a thread13:40
xxxxtsof someone installing it on the eMMC13:40
xxxxtsand found an example of a few boot.scr's13:41
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Hurrianuboot reads the boot.scrs13:41
xxxxtsI tried it13:41
xxxxtsbut I am not too great with uboot13:41
xxxxtsso there's a good chance I messed up - hold on a sec, let me find the threads...13:41
xxxxts - check that out13:42
Hurriansetenv bootcmd 'mmc init; fatload mmc1 0:1 0x82000000 /uImage; fatload mmc1 0:1 0x83000000 /uInitrd; bootm 0x82000000 0x83000000'13:42
Hurriansetenv bootargs 'root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait console=tty0 omapfb.vram=0:2M,1:2M,2:2M mtdoops.mtddev=2 nosplash'13:42
xxxxtsyou think it will work?13:43
Hurrianlemme put together the boot.scr13:43
xxxxtsI will do the same...13:44
Hurrianmmc1 needs to be replaced with mmc013:45
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xxxxtsalso in config-2.6.37-24.2.DE-adaptation-n900 (in p3) look under #boot13:45
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xxxxtsare you sure13:48
xxxxtsi know it is reversed in u boot13:48
xxxxtsbut for that command right there?13:48
xxxxtswe will try both13:49
xxxxtsokay boot.scr is placed i am going to reboot...13:52
Hurriansince there is no initrd, this should be fine13:52
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kevin_bhey guys, I keep having problem to write to the ext2 MyDocs partition13:53
Hurriankevin_b, MyDocs is vfat13:53
kevin_bho yes, sorry13:53
kevin_bit always end messed up needa ran fsck13:54
xxxxtsno go for me with 0's13:54
xxxxtstrying with 1's13:54
Hurrianxxxxts, check mine13:54
Hurrianit's corrected13:54
xxxxtswere you able to boot?13:54
kevin_bis that possible to use another filesystem for MyDocs?13:54
Hurriani don't have meego on my sd atm13:54
Hurriankevin_b, yes it is possible13:54
Hurrianand if you need some crap from mydocs, use backupmenu to export it to PC13:55
kevin_bcool, is just format it? and maybe have a look at fstab?13:55
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Hurriankevin_b, comment it out in genfstab.awk and add a line to rcS-late13:55
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Hurriandocscrutinizer, still here?13:57
kevin_bnice thanks13:57
Hurriani was thinking, we haxx nolo to pass mmc instead of mtd in the atags13:57
Hurrianxxxxts, if all else fails, remove the slashes13:59
xxxxtsgotcha, i am going to try the second attempt now14:00
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xxxxtswhat slashes, all of em?14:02
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xxxxtsno go without slashes14:02
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xxxxtsi mean with slashes14:02
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xxxxtsHurrian, what slashes? take out all of the / or just the one?14:05
xxxxtsor two infront of uimage and uInitrd?14:06
DocScrutinizerHurrian: I'm always here14:06
Hurrianxxxxts: the /s14:07
Hurrianin front of uImage and uInitrd14:07
Hurrianin fact, there is no uInitrd, so dont bother with that14:07
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ruskie <-- hmm14:08
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xxxxtsdelete unitrd?14:09
xxxxtsgiving it another shot14:11
xxxxtsno good14:12
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xxxxtsHurrian, what do you think?14:15
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DocScrutinizeryeah, exactly what I thought as well, though for sure in a different meaning and context14:22
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DocScrutinizerbut you both guys are the only two on this channel that know what you are talking about ([2011-08-31 11:51:57] <xxxxts> I obviously came to the wrong place for advice because you obviously don't know what you're talking about) so I wonder if that convo wasn't better suited for a private query14:25
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ruskie <-- this would work as an alternative to the thinkpad tablet14:37
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dungeon_archlhi, can I delete the OVI maps?14:46
dungeon_archlbecause its offset made it not usable14:46
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keriodungeon_archl: nope!14:47
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dungeon_archlkerio:  ok, any problem if I do it?14:48
kerioidk, try14:48
dungeon_archlkerio: ok once Im ready to reflash and repartation, I will try it first14:49
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DocScrutinizerdungeon_archl: sorry, I missed your rationale. What offset, and delete what exactly?15:05
dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer: hi, I was asking if I can purge the OVI maps because it do not work properly here.15:06
DocScrutinizerpurge the app?15:06
DocScrutinizeror purge that map data?15:06
dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer purge the app15:06
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DocScrutinizerhmm, possibly not, as it might be part of the maemo metapackage15:07
dungeon_archlok, I just feel its useless due to the position offset issue15:07
DocScrutinizerI.E. there *might* be other packages that just expect it to be there15:07
DocScrutinizerwhat position offset?15:07
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dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer it shows the current postion south to the real site15:08
DocScrutinizerI'm also not sure it's useful, esp compared to e.g. mappero, marble, etc15:08
dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer from its postion, I should be swiming in the sea15:09
DocScrutinizerhmm there was a bug in dunno PR1.0/1.1 with liblocation, that should have been fixed since long, and IIRC it was south/west mirroring around the Greenwich meridian15:10
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chem|stdungeon_archl: if on network positioning with 3G I get some wierd locations sometimes15:13
DocScrutinizerindoor initial first fix position been a few 200m to the south indeed, another 30s next to the windows the position shown is ~50m correct15:13
chem|stI get a pos close to the next GSM tower15:13
dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer: the offset is about 4 km i suppose15:13
chem|stwhich is south^^15:14
chem|stoffset 1.5km15:14
RST38hMarble is useless15:14
chem|stbut pretty^^15:14
dungeon_archlRST38h:  why marble useless? its a toy for kids.15:14
RST38hEats too much into the swap partition on the N900.15:15
RST38hTotally inoperable.15:15
ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: You are joerg_rw right?15:15
DocScrutinizeruse a /whois15:15
* ErwinJunge is slowly learning about irc, thanks15:16
DocScrutinizerdungeon_archl: indeed OVI maps seems to have a preference for heading south as soon as your GPS data gets invalid or never became valid15:16
dungeon_archlnot too bad, OVI map with WIFI Network correction give a 1.5KM offset to east, much better than pure stallite15:17
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: /ms nickserv indo <nickname> also helps a lot15:17
VenemoDocScrutinizer, isn't that /msg ?15:17
DocScrutinizerdungeon_archl: N900 GPS is notorious for poor performance when used without a SIM card15:18
RST38hGentlemen, what kilometers are you all talking about? Ovi Maps has always been fairly accurate for me. Even with no cell service.15:18
RST38hJust used it in Greece. Had SIM card in but no roaming. Wasn't any WiFi either. Worked like a charm, after a bit of initialization time (~5mins)15:19
dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer: but I have a sim...15:19
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ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: Could I pick your brain a bit regarding an "optimal" reinstall of my N900? What to do pre/post flash? What packages to avoid? Stuff like that. I'm definitely interested in having a bigger /home15:20
DocScrutinizerdungeon_archl: weird. Usually your GPS should give better precision of location then15:20
dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer: may I ask, do the data used by OVI maps count as Internet Usage? my pre-paid do not have Internet15:20
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: sure, we'll all be happy to help. Just ask15:20
DocScrutinizerdungeon_archl: yes, for sure they count as data15:21
ErwinJungeWell, how up to date is this page: ?15:21
DocScrutinizerexcept for the GPS assistance data that most providers deliver to every phone, not only to those with GPRS data plan15:21
ErwinJungeWhich is the best thing I found regarding my wish for a larger /home15:22
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: it's mostly still valid15:22
DocScrutinizeresp the edit for larger /home still applies15:22
ErwinJungeOk, thanks on that. Any other possible tweaks that I might want to know about to apply to the image before flashing?15:22
dungeon_archlDocScrutinizer: I can use other map application which indicate correct position fairly easy... OVI maps is werid...15:23
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: do a proper backup prior to flashing ;-) That'S about all15:23
chem|stI do understand that if you want to install various games and stuff you need to cut mydocs in pieces, but for what again do I need a larger home?15:23
DocScrutinizerwell, some apps really hog /opt, for example15:24
ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: Would an rsync of / be good enough? Or do I need to use some sort of backup tool?15:24
DocScrutinizerand /opt lives on /home15:24
DocScrutinizergood enough for sure, maybe even overkill15:24
DocScrutinizerif you feel ok with it, go for rsync15:24
chem|stErwinJunge: proper backup is given with "backup" from your menu, and everything you edited by hand in /15:25
ErwinJungechem|st: In my case, I keep running out of space for apps15:25
chem|stErwinJunge: never happened to me, and if it would force me to uninstall all the BS I had a try-out on15:25
DocScrutinizermaybe that's the purpose of the reflash he's planning to do?15:26
ErwinJungechem|st: "everything you edited by hand in /" --> I have no idea anymore by now :)15:26
DocScrutinizergo for rsync15:26
ErwinJungeYeah, reflash is kind of a major cleanup operation15:26
DocScrutinizerdon't miss /home, do not include /home/user/MyDocs (as that's your mass storage device and better copied that way)15:27
chem|stmy desktops / is 11GB used...15:27
chem|stwith var and everything15:27
chem|steven a pagefile... (deaktivated swap partition a while ago...)15:28
ErwinJunge8.8GB here15:28
ErwinJungeWithout pagefile15:28
chem|stand that is a desktop...15:28
chem|stwell my home is 63GB used...15:28
DocScrutinizerwhatever, increasing /home from 2 to maybe 4 or even 8 GB is a sane thing, we don'T need to discuss :-)15:29
chem|stDocScrutinizer: sure15:29
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chem|stwell 8 sounds insane15:29
ErwinJungechem|st: I'm not using MyDocs for anything anyways, might as well increase the size of /home15:30
chem|stwhat for? having more programs installed than my desktop?!15:30
chem|stErwinJunge: thats another case15:30
DocScrutinizerjavispedro's pre-thingie seems to eat /home/user like candy for each single game you install15:30
chem|stI use mydocs and thuSD as backup15:30
chem|stDocScrutinizer: true15:30
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DocScrutinizerand allegedly the 2GB originally were meant to just suffice for trackerd's index db15:31
ErwinJungeAnyways, after flashing. From hanging out in this channel for a while I've learned to avoid fapman. Anything else to avoid? Anything I really should install (apart from power-kernel and cssu)?15:31
chem|stbut in that 11gb of / are things like QuakeIII and other 1GB games...15:31
DocScrutinizerof a MyDocs full of crappy 90s songs15:31
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DocScrutinizeravoid installing powerkernel and cssu right away15:33
DocScrutinizerinstall rootsh15:33
DocScrutinizerssh server&client metapackage15:33
DocScrutinizerget a feeling of how a *clean* maemo feels, how long the battery lasts etc15:33
chem|stDocScrutinizer: it is actualy better to install cssu right after rootsh and openssh as you cannot get into trouble with other stuff's dependencies15:34
DocScrutinizerthen after a few days go for customization like powerkernel, desktop-widgets, CSSU15:34
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DocScrutinizerooh, and you want to make sure you don't miss to install backupmenu right away, definitely15:35
ErwinJungeI actually need powerkernel since I regularly use the phone to access the internet on my laptop on the go15:35
DocScrutinizerand make a 'snapshot' of your fresh install (afterrootsh, ssh, and maybe half a dozen other mandatory things that is)15:36
DocScrutinizermobile hotspot?15:36
DocScrutinizerPK47 seems not to work with moHotSpot15:37
RST38hCSSU is actually harmless15:38
RST38hmore or less15:38
DocScrutinizermore less15:38
ErwinJungeSometimes, when I need to share as well, but mostly the usb edition. Does the usb networking require powerkernel?15:38
RST38hnever tried powerkernel, desktop widgets do happen to suck now and then15:38
DocScrutinizerit nukes the camera-ui binary and you can't get it back (unless you find some idiot who left a copy in internet to download ;-D )15:39
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: nope, usb tehtering and netwoking should work OOTB15:39
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ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: --> Says to install kernel-power-settings. I guess that pulls in the pk as well?15:41
RST38hDoc: Actually, it leaves the camera-ui binary afaik15:41
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: I gather your laptop is configured ready to use USB tehrering, so just try it after flashing15:41
RST38hDoc: it is still accessble from the new binary, anyway15:41
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DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: yes, probably. I never heard of USB-router though15:41
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ErwinJungeThat's what I actually meant, I should have been more specific. Upside to that method is that it requires no configuration on the laptop/pc end.15:42
DocScrutinizerRST38h: definitely not15:42
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ErwinJungeAlso, the phone has an ip address, so I can mount it via ssh15:43
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: yup, I see15:43
DocScrutinizeryes, this will need netfilter/iptables whatever (I never get the names right, it seen too many renames during my active time)15:44
DocScrutinizerand those are depending on PK15:44
DocScrutinizer(ipchains been another one of the names iirc)15:44
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fluxwell, netfilter/iptables have been around for quite a while for now..15:45
ErwinJungeI've never had problems with mobilehotspot btw with pk4715:45
ErwinJungeWell, not any more than with the earlier versions15:45
DocScrutinizerhmm, somebody claimed recent PK failed on it15:45
DocScrutinizerjust some 3 days ago15:46
DocScrutinizermaybe recent PK is 48 then?15:46
ErwinJungecurrent for me is 47, but I can't update anything anymore because of my full /home :)15:46
DocScrutinizerwell, you know about it now, just in case you run into trouble15:47
DocScrutinizer[2011-08-30 10:17:26] <cityLights> how can I roll back to kernel power 47 ?15:48
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DocScrutinizer[2011-08-30 09:55:40] <cityLights> mobile hotspot no longer work after power kernel upgrade15:48
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ErwinJungeOk, so to recap: rootsh, openssh, backupmenu. Try phone for couple of days, or until I need to tether. Install PK. Did I miss anything here?15:49
ErwinJungeAh, so pk updated15:49
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ErwinJungeRegarding the cssu: I thought it had all kinds of useful small fixes? Is the only problem with is the camera-ui thing?15:53
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ErwinJungeBecause I honestly don't mind the new camera ui that came with it.15:55
RST38hDoc: Will ask Mohammad15:56
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: (did I miss sth) nope, sounds good15:57
DocScrutinizercssu *should* be fine now, though I haven't tested since ages15:58
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ErwinJungeAnd finally, after installing the necessary packages, any config files that need tweaking? I always assumed Nokia probably did a good job with the defaults, but things have changed a bit since then (pk, cssu).15:58
DocScrutinizerbasically all the fixes I care about are the ones listed on my tools page15:58
chem|stDocScrutinizer: running cssu since day one15:59
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DocScrutinizeryou may want to give swappolube a try15:59
DocScrutinizersupposed to somewhat fix occasional extended freeze periods, esp when copying large files around etc16:00
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ErwinJungeOk, added to the list16:01
DocScrutinizerand please think twice before you mess with CPU clock freq in PK-settings :-D16:02
DocScrutinizeraka overclocking16:03
ErwinJungeI actually like this phone, so not touching that :) What about undervolting btw, to save battery?16:04
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DocScrutinizerif you feel keen and familiar with low level cmdline stuff you may even want to create a backup of your kernel and CAL aka config NAND partition, using "mtd_debug read..." and the info from /proc/mtd16:05
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: undervolting isn't supposed to chage much about battery life16:06
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DocScrutinizer(mtd_debug read) supposed to get support in next version of backupmenu16:07
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ErwinJungeI'll do a bit of googling on that, thanks for the tip16:08
ErwinJungeIf uv doesn't change much about the battery I'm not investing time and effort in it, thanks again16:08
DocScrutinizerit's simple, do a mtd_debug --help and a cat /proc/mtd16:09
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DocScrutinizerpull out your calculator... :-) (for length, startaddr)16:10
DocScrutinizerwell, length == size I guess16:10
DocScrutinizernever been tested afaik, so beware if you don't feel venturous :-D16:10
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DocScrutinizerit *should* work this way, mtd_debug read for creating a backup, write for restoring16:11
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DocScrutinizerbut you also have a fair chance to *really* brick your hw on nuking CAL/config16:12
DocScrutinizerso maybe better don't test the restoring unless you need it for good16:12
ErwinJungeOk, so that's not happening than. I'm not that adventurous16:12
DocScrutinizer;-) fair enough16:13
DocScrutinizerfor flashing see16:13
infobothmm... maemo-flashing is
ErwinJungeAlright, thanks for all the info. I'm not going to do any of this right now btw (no time), but just wanted to know the steps to do things right. Especially the editing of the image prior to flashing, great tip.16:16
DocScrutinizerwatch out with editing, the number of chars mustn't change16:18
DocScrutinizers/chars/digits/ here16:18
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DocScrutinizerit's tested for 4GB and iirc 6GB, it failed for 16GB, can't recall if the guy managed to get a usable img by abusing some whitespace for the additional digit16:20
ErwinJungeSo max would be 9999?16:20
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ErwinJungeMaybe you should put this info in you tools page as well, it still says Size is in MB, you probably can increase /home partition to some 28G16:20
DocScrutinizersomewhat, yeah, I guess that's max16:21
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ErwinJungeIf I screw this up, will that permanently break things? Or can I just edit it again and reflash?16:22
DocScrutinizerno way, it will just refuse to flash iirc16:22
DocScrutinizerso yes, you can use an original img copy and retry16:22
ErwinJungeI guess I'll just go for 8096 to be safe16:23
DocScrutinizerfair enough16:23
ErwinJungeInteresting how your rsync script supports multiple N900s. How many do you have? :)16:23
DocScrutinizerthough I run that script against one of then only16:24
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ErwinJungeJust in case you break one?16:24
DocScrutinizer*usually* :-D16:24
DocScrutinizerone is a development device, the other my private everyday phone16:24
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ErwinJungeNot a really robust backup mechanism btw, overwriting the previous backup. Would you be interested in a bit more advanced script which uses hardlinks to automatically make full backups every day while only taking the space that incremental backups would take?16:25
chem|stErwinJunge: I do the same... the drive it is stored on is in inc backup^^16:27
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DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: I actually do the ln dance :-D16:37
DocScrutinizeresp useful on mirrors of repos that occasionally tend to rm files that were available on mishap16:38
ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: Ok, just thought I'd offer since it's not shown in the script on your tools page :)16:38
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DocScrutinizeryeah, should add it16:38
Siceloso the Ctrl+BS task switching needs modified-hildon...16:38
DocScrutinizeractually I do a cp -al16:38
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ErwinJungesame here16:39
DocScrutinizercp -al$(date +%Y-%m-%d)/  ;-D16:40
DocScrutinizerSicelo: yep16:40
ErwinJungecp -al $DEST/current /$DEST/`date +%Y%m%d`16:40
ErwinJungeremarkably similar :)16:40
DocScrutinizerSicelo: the nice version as of the video linked to in my tools page does16:40
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Siceloyeah, your tools page is most useful. i meant to ask what the 'apt-get remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr16:42
Siceloline is for?16:42
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Sicelothat's at the end of the section which sets up the ctrl+bs task switch16:44
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: now you will have to make a review as soon as you get the watch ;)16:55
javispedrolike, how's the battery life and so.16:55
GeneralAntillesHope I can get it interfacing with the N950 quickly.16:56
javispedroSounds like an interesting problem to tackle16:56
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ErwinJungeGeneralAntilles: what watch?16:56
javispedroif the battery life is more than two days I might get one too16:56
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, previews say about a week.16:56
JaffaSicelo: Ctrl-Bs to launch task switcher has been standard in Fremantle since the N900 prototypes16:56
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Is it a brick?16:57
javispedroGeneralAntilles: a review I read mentioned "single day" :( but he blamed unoptimized firmware.16:57
GeneralAntillesJaffa, dunno, doesn't ship until end of September.16:57
GeneralAntillesSingle day I could handle16:58
GeneralAntillesI mean, I already charge 3 devices at night.16:58
GeneralAntillesa 4th wont end the world16:58
javispedroGeneralAntilles: the last Fossil watch I've owned was a PalmOS one, it was also single-day.16:58
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Looks nice. If battery life is good (month or so), I'll have an analogue one. Ta.16:58
javispedroI'm a heavy PalmOS fan, it's the best watch in the world, and yet, I couldn't handle the single-day battery.16:58
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I doubt it'll be anywhere close to that long.16:58
jaskasingle day.. watch? as in one day charge?16:59
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javispedrojaska: yes16:59
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'd be also worried about the additional drain on my phone of it sending cool Bluetooth messages to my watch all day.16:59
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, N950 is currently day-point-five-plus for me.17:00
javispedroJaffa: considering the same drain applies to the watch battery I wouldn't worry about the phone17:00
jaskajavis: ouch.17:00
GeneralAntillesSo if that took it down to a day, then meh.17:00
ErwinJungeNice idea, I'll stick with fully mechanical though:
ErwinJungeEven have to wind it manually. No battery-life whatsoever, because no battery ;)17:00
GeneralAntillesErwinJunge, still have to charge it.17:01
javispedrotbh I also like the analog+oled one more, but I bet it uses more battery.17:01
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javispedrogimme eink watch :)17:02
GeneralAntillesToo big for an analog watch17:02
GeneralAntillesand no second hand17:02
ErwinJungeStill a great idea though, essentially an extra screen on your wrist.17:03
javispedrothe watch protocol looks very nice and hackable17:03
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, apparently the point.17:04
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: I remember another watch of the same spirity, but it was more "you install an app on the phone. the app renders".17:04
javispedroThis is more like "the phone has full control of the watch"17:05
javispedroit renders whatever it wants on it17:05
* GeneralAntilles will be back later.17:05
javispedroand if what the SDK says is true, it has an accelerometer..17:06
javispedroand a light sensor17:06
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javispedroyou could probably convert it into some kind of minimap screen for ovi maps or ex.17:08
javispedro*for ex.17:08
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javispedrorefresh time wouldn't be good, and I wouldn't expect battery life to last a lot in this mode tough...17:08
* ErwinJunge wants a minimap on his wrist17:08
chem|stErwinJunge: then do!17:09
ErwinJungeWith icons for teammates17:09
javispedroit is fully doable17:09
ErwinJungeAnd preferably enemies, but that would be cheating17:09
chem|stthat is possible too...17:09
ErwinJungeJoking aside though, minimap on wrist while on vacation == awesome17:10
javispedroit has a vibrator too.17:10
chem|st"hit indicator"17:10
ErwinJungeammo remaining17:11
javispedroIt looks very nice.17:12
* ErwinJunge is seriously considering buying one of these just for the minimap idea17:12
javispedroMy cons: no touchscreen, low battery, useless if no phone17:12
ErwinJungeHm... no touchscreen is definitely a missed chance17:13
javispedroah found it17:13
infobotErwinJunge meant: Hm... no touchscreen is definitely a missed opportunity17:13
javispedrothis is the other one I was considering17:13
javispedroalong with the Motorola one but that is not as hackable17:13
javispedrothe InPulse one also looks interesting17:14
javispedrobut it seemingly has less battery, no touchscreen either17:14
javispedrobut since they "install" apps on the watch is not completely useless when the phone is out of range17:14
ErwinJungeSeems like a better idea. Also, it's $50 cheaper17:15
Jaffajavispedro: That says up-to 4 days, which is quite cool.17:15
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ErwinJunge"up-to" is very dangerous17:18
javispedroJaffa: reviews say "6-7 hours"17:19
javispedrowhich is what I'd believe17:19
javispedroOLED is still a battery sucker when compared to an old-style LCD.17:19
RST38hdepends on the number of lit pixels17:19
RST38hE7 does very well in terms of battery life17:19
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javispedroRST38h: note that you're comparing to a plain old LCD, probably not even TFT.17:21
javispedroit's monochrome17:21
javispedroI believe they are not even comparable -- but no data to back this off :)17:21
RST38hyou mean the old LCD17:21
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javispedrotalking about geeky watches to impress the girls here =)17:22
javispedro(obviously kidding :) )17:22
SpeedEviljavispedro: A nokia 3310 (for example) has a 20*30mm or so 90*120 pixel or so display - and has (from memory) around a 5mA draw from the LCD.17:23
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SpeedEvilAn OLED display of a similar size will use about an order of magnitude more.17:23
SpeedEvilEven with just one or two pixels on, it will vastly exceed 5mA17:24
dungeon_archlhi, is there gtalk audio call on N900  by default?17:24
dungeon_archlneed help quick, thank you17:24
RST38hjavispedro: Just buy Arkanoid's famous Chinese watch phone17:24
RST38hjavispedro: And impress them all you like, if they do not take you for an alien with that chunk of metal on your wrist17:25
javispedroand a talk time measured in minutes :)17:25
* SpeedEvil ponders the total talk-time on his n900.17:25
SpeedEvilI think - over the 2 yearsish - it must be approaching 30.17:26
javispedroRST38h: ah, _that_ watch.17:26
RST38hjavispedro: If you can stand MTK's chipset and atrocious localization17:26
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javispedrofor some reason, weeks after I got rid of the gigantic Fossil PalmOS watch, geeky ugly gigantic watches started being fashionable17:27
RST38hStill using a Timex DataBank here. Not gigantic, but sufficiently geeky.17:28
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DocScrutinizer( <Sicelo> yeah, your tools page is most useful. i meant to ask what the 'apt-get remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr) updating/replacing stuff like libvte or hildon-desktop makes apt unhappy wrt mp-fremantle-generic-pr which includes those, so you can't use apt-get install anymore as it allways throws error about unmet dependencies that supposedly need to get fixed prior to any installation of new stuff. Removing the metapackage "fixes" that.17:32
DocScrutinizerIn CSSU those problems are handled in another better way, and basically you neither need to do the dpkg -i modified-hildon-desktop_3.1_armel.deb nor the dpkg -i libvte4_0.16.14-0mh9.m5_armel.deb if you install CSSU, so you also don't need the apt-get remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr17:32
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Siceloaha. thanks. will go CSSU later.17:35
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rm_workmy watch is a Nokia cellphone17:40
rm_workthat's pretty bulky17:40
rm_workIt's a pocketwatch :P17:40
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kevin_bHo damn, I format mmcblk0p1, and as device start I see that I format /home too17:46
kevin_bno locale, no hildon style... no UI17:47
kevin_bmaemo screwed by /me17:47
kevin_bthe fastest way to restore my home would be to reflash, right?17:47
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rm_workkevin_b: yeah probably17:54
rm_workyou may need to reflash emmc image too, not sure17:55
rm_workor possibly JUST emmc17:55
rm_worki forget which one does what17:55
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ShadowJKif you only flash emmc you wipe themes locale icons etc18:10
kevin_bI dont't get it18:11
kevin_bso on mmcblk0p1 partition there was MyDocs18:11
kevin_bI didnt think I would screw the whole18:11
kevin_b"NOTE: Always flash the eMMC image first, then the FIASCO image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image! When flashing eMMC always also flash FIASCO rootfs - NEVER boot the device between the two flashes."18:11
kevin_bIf I want to reset back the eMMC, I need to flash rootfs as well?18:12
ShadowJKon first boot icons,themes,locale,fonts and a bunch of other stuff is moved from rootfs to emmc18:13
ShadowJKwhen you flash emmc you delete that18:13
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kevin_bok so I would just like to turn the fat MyDocs into ext318:13
kevin_bwhat should I do18:14
Venemo_N950kevin_b, I can tell you18:14
ShadowJKi think people have instead enlarged /home and shrunk MyDocs18:14
kevin_bI did change the fstab, and mkds.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 (after umounting well)18:14
ShadowJKfstab isn't used18:14
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Venemo_N950boot with the rescue initrd (instructions in google), then activate mass storage mode, and then you can repartition it from your computer with gparted18:15
kevin_bso steps are : basic reflash, rescue mode and gparted18:16
ShadowJKOr if it is used, editing it does nothing as it gets created on boot again. I forget if the fstab is generated after mounting stuff to look like what just got mounted, or if it gets generated before calling mount -a. I have a hunch mount -a isn't used18:16
Venemo_N950reflash not needed18:16
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Venemo_N950one thing to keep in mind is that the partition order is hardcoded into Maemo18:17
edheldilWhat is the best use for the expansion card, btw? Does it get utulised automagically or do I have to link something to it?18:17
kevin_bneed to know : mmcblk0p1 is MyDocs right?18:17
Venemo_N950so you will brick your device if you are not careful18:17
ShadowJKedheldil, you can put music and videos on the uSD18:17
ShadowJKit appears in file manager18:18
edheldilah, so apart from that, apps leave it alone?18:18
kevin_bwhat I just dont get is why /home get empty as I though I only format mmcblk0p118:18
ShadowJKyes. Apps don't install to MyDocs either18:18
kevin_bthis part contains /home?18:18
ShadowJKkevin_b: it probably bailed out when mounting MyDocs failed18:19
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ShadowJKyou can probably follow the process in the bootscripts18:19
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ShadowJKthey got a bit messed up after people complained 50Megs isn't enough for apps...18:20
NIN101nothing happens if it can not mount mmcblk0p1(besides a message in the yellow bar).18:20
NIN101and there is usually no problem with unmounting /home/user/MyDocs and doing whatever you want with mmcblk0p1, e.g. making it ext318:21
kevin_bmy problem now is more like, not mmcbk0 at all18:21
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kevin_bwhen maemo succeed to boot, plug usb, mass-storage enable lol18:27
kevin_bI just click on box characters18:28
kevin_bwith some colorful square hildon18:28
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: 3.3.13 has a unrelated button table, 3.3.13|14|15 use a reserved or unused payload of up to 26 bytes :-/18:28
kevin_banyway I can see the part which is mounted is /home/user in my linux box ...18:28
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: how's the motorola watch less hackable?18:50
javispedroDocScrutinizer: afaik it does not even have SDK, it just does a bit of hands free profile.18:51
DocScrutinizererr you must talk about something different then18:51
javispedrois there one with SDK? O_O18:52
DocScrutinizerprobably I meant that TI watch, not moto18:52
javispedroTI was quite nice18:52
DocScrutinizermsp430 iirc18:52
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javispedroand most hackable18:52
javispedrobut no bluetooth.18:52
DocScrutinizerand cheap like hell18:52
javispedroit also has excellent battery life18:52
DocScrutinizeryoh no BT18:52
javispedroI was really considering getting one once18:53
javispedrobut the TI logo is overkill :)18:53
* DocScrutinizer too18:53
javispedroplus N-segment display18:53
DocScrutinizerI wonder if this metawatch can talk at all to normal BT, and what exactly is BT SSP18:54
Venemojavispedro, sorry, seems that I missed it - what are you talking about? :P18:54
javispedroVenemo: bluetooth watches18:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: metawatch is serial port profile according to docs18:55
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DocScrutinizerlowpower BT?18:55
javispedroand the protocol is deadly simple "Update LCD line X with the following bitvector"18:55
javispedros/bitvector/bitmap ;)18:55
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I already ate whole "datasheet"18:55
javispedroI think there's a thousand use cases18:55
javispedroneed to see the max refresh rate live though :P18:56
DocScrutinizerI'm concerned about BT SSP18:56
javispedroand how does it kill battery life18:56
javispedroDocScrutinizer: they are targeting android devices. Our BT is way more flexible18:56
DocScrutinizerdatasheet says BT is main bat killer18:56
javispedroah, you mean that18:56
javispedroyeah :(18:56
javispedroI'd expect 12h even with continuously refreshing screen18:58
javispedroconsidering that other one with OLED that gets 7-8h18:58
javispedrobut still pure speculation18:58
DocScrutinizer>> To improve battery life, the best practice of the phone should be to not load these Draw Buffers unless there is intent to switch modes when finished (Update Display / Change Modes message). Data loaded that is not used is battery life wasted.<<18:58
javispedronot surprising18:59
javispedrowhy upload a frame if you're never going to swap buffers? :)18:59
javispedrothe fact they went double buffered makes me think the update speed over BT is low though19:00
DocScrutinizer>> Application mode should still have the same ability as Idle mode to have low power consumption and use low power modes when idle. Power will be mostly driven by network use for the interface.<<19:00
slonopotamusit'll still run 2h under full load and 1-2 days when not used :)19:00
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slonopotamusas almost all "mobile" devices do19:00
javispedroslonopotamus: sadly it's a rule thumb that has worked well in the past19:01
javispedro*of thumb19:01
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slonopotamuswell, some devices can sit powered on up to 1w when not used :)19:02
DocScrutinizersome watches can work up to 5 years from one battery ;-D19:03
javispedrothe TI one also lasts a lot from what I've hear19:03
Venemoand some devices can use 1 W on full load.19:03
Venemosee Model.ArticleCategory19:03
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the metawatch seems to have vibrator, which makes me think it should last a lot when not used for excessive BT TX or vibra19:04
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javispedroI am keeping an eye on the reviews19:05
slonopotamushmm... vibra with bt control... :P19:05
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DocScrutinizerone thing's for sure: it makes for a damn nice multimedia remote control for N90019:07
javispedrolack of touchscreen :(19:07
DocScrutinizerwhat for?19:07
javispedrobut it does have way more buttons than the inPulse one which is why I prefer the metawatch atm19:07
DocScrutinizerthere are 6some buttons it seems19:07
DocScrutinizereach with 3 levels of activation19:07
DocScrutinizerpush, short hold, long hold19:08
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ErwinJungeVenemo: I want one of those!19:09
DocScrutinizerwhich makes a lot of sense regarding minimizing BT TX, when you think about it19:09
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I'm working on the liveview, much cheaper and much more available19:09
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: mine shipped over night while metawatch is probably still battling their production delays...19:09
javispedrodm8tbr: and how hackable?19:09
DocScrutinizerthat BT only wrist thingie?19:09
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dm8tbrjavispedro: you can't run your completely own code on it (unless you replace the complete software) but it's hackable enough19:10
dm8tbrand there is python concept code I found19:10
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dm8tbryes, bt only, 4 touch buttons, 2 hw buttons, oled screen and vibra19:11
javispedroso like the inPulse then19:11
dm8tbrsome guy took it apart and there is enough test points to probably reprogram the microcontroller if someone really cares...19:12
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javispedronot important, I'm more interested in whether I can use it with the N90019:13
javispedroor N95019:13
javispedroinstead of whathever Android crap they ship19:13
javispedroThe inPulse also does apps and the SDK is a ... C cross-compiler (win!)19:14
javispedrothe MetaWatch not does apps but expects phone to refresh screen using ... pretty much standard SPP and documented commandset (win!)19:15
dm8tbrjavispedro: for the liveview it looks very feasible to me. I just failed to get the python stuff to talk to the device yet from a laptop as proof of concept, others have though19:15
javispedroso someone is REing the protocol?19:16
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javispedroaha, I see:
DocScrutinizer>> A Kionix KXTF9 is accelerometer is included in the watch hardware. Motion events can be detected by setting it to wake up on orientation change, tap detection, or programming the accelerometer’s motion thresholds.<<19:18
javispedroDocScrutinizer: surely you're going to hug the guys for making a non-polling driver ;)19:19
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DocScrutinizerthey knew their shit19:19
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DocScrutinizerregarding energy consumption / batery life; >> The usage of the accelerometer is highly application dependent. The amount of power used by the accelerometer would exceed the rest of the watch if it were left on continuously. For that reason, control of the accelerometer is left to the application.<<19:21
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DocScrutinizer:-) >> Button inputs are monitored by the background task. Button inputs are interrupt driven so that the button event is sent to the application and/or phone immediately after the button debounce time.<<19:22
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DocScrutinizersee how you build a real power economic embedded hw/sw system!19:23
DocScrutinizeroops that's not #meego19:23
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javispedrodm8tbr: what does happen to the Liveview if the phone goes off?19:24
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* javispedro dreams about QML for smartwatches19:28
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dm8tbrjavispedro: it is still a watch19:29
dm8tbrjavispedro: but nothing besides that19:29
javispedrodm8tbr: so the entire menu of apps, etc. disappears?19:29
javispedro(note: I think it's a good thing, means phone has full control of device...)19:30
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javispedrofrom the messages on that RE'd SDK, I fail to see how it works...19:30
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: meh, N900 won't probably be able to connect to metawatch and a BT-headset same time19:42
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javispedrothat's a good point.19:42
javispedrobut it's not a hw problem.19:42
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* javispedro remembers trying once two rfcomm sockets at the same time... don't remember if I succeded, but I guess I did.19:43
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dm8tbrjavispedro: yes, if you press the hw button longer it tries to connect to the last BT device19:54
dm8tbrso it started shipping?19:58
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GeneralAntillesdm8tbr, end of September according to TI's webstore.20:01
GeneralAntillesGuy's got a prototype20:01
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dm8tbrGeneralAntilles: yeah, I keep getting their delay mails since may or so ;)20:02
javispedrouh, metawatch is TI too?20:02
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javispedroas said the battery life on their previous one was _excellent_20:03
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javispedroso I could believe their claims of 1 week..20:07
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yoh, also TI20:07
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dm8tbrwhen I don't connect the liveview by bt too often it also survives quite long. kind of defeats the purpose though ;D20:09
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javispedroOLED color vs Monochrome20:10
javispedronow that seems that the Liveview is also hackable.... the only item left is battery life :)20:10
javispedrocause it seems that liveview is also much cheaper..20:11
DocScrutinizerwell, >>BT enabled, no headset connected +2 mA with ~1/5 time spikes to +9 mA<<
DocScrutinizerso I'm sure the BT chip in metawatch can standby on less than that20:12
DocScrutinizerCBA to dig out the ds20:12
DocScrutinizer^^^BT chip20:13
javispedrowhoa, the Liveview could be mine for €50, including shipping costs20:13
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javispedroimpulse buy range warning20:13
DocScrutinizerI lie: Can be arsed ;-P
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Khertanhello all !20:15
DocScrutinizerUltra-low-power scan 135 µA 1.28-second interval20:15
dm8tbrjavispedro: that is EXACTLY what happened to me ;)20:15
dm8tbrjavispedro: had to shell out 60ecu though for the luxury of living in finland ;)20:15
DocScrutinizerso I'm not going to visit that page then20:15
DocScrutinizeras I'm sure I prefer the metawatch20:16
* javispedro floats mouse pointer over the buy button20:17
javispedrodm8tbr: so how's the battery life?20:17
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I did until they started delaying and delaying and I realized the liveview is much cheaper20:18
dm8tbrjavispedro: uhm no idea, but I guess the fact that I barely remember how often I have to recharge it is quite telling20:18
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javispedrohave to say that: a) as long as I can send bitmaps from the phone b) as long as it gets more than two days of "BT use" it's fine for me.20:19
dm8tbrbut caveat emptor: this is mostly without being bt connected20:19
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: according to my bank account and also according to my general rules about getting hardware just because it's "nice", I won't see either on my desk20:19
javispedrohey, I've been considering _analog_ clocks as replacement for my casio that are €3020:19
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: desk would be the wrong place anyway, watches belong on the wrist ;)20:20
dm8tbrbut yeah I can relate to that20:20
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javispedroin fact, the official watchband replacement for my current casio clock is eur30 (more than the clock itself), which is the reason I was considering replacing the entire watch...20:21
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javispedrodm8tbr: according to the engadget review it doesn't have its own RTC? makes no sense20:24
DocScrutinizerthere's been a time in the 70 and then again in the mid 80 when I loved wrist watches, first Seiko, then in the 80s good digital watches. I think though I quit with the custom to wear any wrist watch, since I got another gadget on me20:24
dm8tbrjavispedro: if you shut it down completely it needs a resync over BT20:24
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dm8tbrjavispedro: as long as you don't do that it works quite fine20:24
javispedrono wonder it's cheap, a watch without RTC! =)20:25
DocScrutinizersee why I'd prefer metawatch nevertheless? :-D20:25
dm8tbrsure, it's the shinier gadget20:26
javispedroit's nicer.20:26
dm8tbravailability and price got me...20:26
javispedrobut I look at my current über scratched watch with a broken band20:26
javispedrothink of $200 vs eur5020:27
javispedrothe band on the liveview also looks ultra cheap20:27
javispedroplus shipping :)20:28
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DocScrutinizermetawatch got leather band20:29
DocScrutinizer>>One digital display watch with stainless steel case; mineral crystal lens; leather strap. Programming/charging clip & micro USB cable<<20:30
DocScrutinizerwater resistant up to 3ATM20:31
dm8tbrliveview: plastic case, plastic lens, stretch velcro strap, clip, micro-usb foo20:31
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javispedroTI are stupid20:31
javispedro"your TI-pass has not been renewed by your Administrator."20:32
javispedroI know that you idiots. Do I really need to sign the NDAs AGAIN just to buy something from your store?20:32
javispedroDocScrutinizer: my account was created around a year ago beacuse of some powervr drivers bullshit20:32
DocScrutinizerclear your cookies20:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, MetaWatch looks nicer, though.20:33
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javispedroseems that the NDA expired (not that I gained any knowledge you don't know about it) so they decided to block my account20:33
javispedroDocScrutinizer: not a local client, it's not the first time I see this20:33
* GeneralAntilles didn't.20:34
javispedrolast time I even sent them an email about.20:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I can see that fine, I just can't get passed the ckecout page.20:34
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DocScrutinizermust be cookies, what else?20:35
javispedroas said it has happened on a different computer20:35
javispedroit's a problem with my account.20:36
GeneralAntillesCreate a new account?20:36
javispedroand another email alias, and ...20:36
DocScrutinizerAn unexpected error has occurred. The error message has been recorded for the system administrator. We apologize for the inconvenience.20:36
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DocScrutinizeryou can't add to chart the metawatch, it seems20:38
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DocScrutinizer"available Sept 29th" is sufficient to let you know it's nonsense to click on "add to chart"20:39
javispedrowas just doing it to calculate shipping costs20:40
* DocScrutinizer waves and wanders off getting tobacco20:40
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* DocScrutinizer mumbles "hey, your birthday is like 9 months away"20:41
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, #maemo isn't buying you a MetaWatch.20:42
javispedrohey, mine is relatively sooner :)20:42
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DocScrutinizerI'm used to buying gifts for myself20:42
GeneralAntillesHey, mine is only 6 weeks away!20:43
javispedromine is less than 3 :)20:43
GeneralAntillesWait, no.20:44
javispedroyeah :(20:44
javispedroyou get a metawatch right on the launch date :)20:44
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javispedrothe LiveView's screen turns off after inactivity?20:46
dm8tbrfirst it dimms then it turns off20:46
dm8tbrbut it's easy enough to push the button to get it on20:46
GeneralAntillesIt's like an N900!20:46
javispedrono wonder they talk about 4days20:46
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dm8tbrwell oled is low power, but would probably not survive _that_ long with that tiny battery20:47
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Khertanoh didn't know the existance of metawatch20:48
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Khertani like the design20:48
Khertanbt is the only connectivity ?20:49
GeneralAntillesUSB clip20:49
GeneralAntillesFor JTAG etc20:49
Khertanyep but the only one for wireless connectivity. no wifi for example20:50
Khertanyeah i know i m a network geek20:50
GeneralAntillesdependent on phone20:50
Khertanyeah require a phone20:51
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Khertanbut i like the concept20:54
Khertanauto lock office computer when too far away from it20:56
Khertansame for phone20:56
GeneralAntillesI'd like BT proximity stuff to actually work.20:57
dm8tbrI'd like to see more cool rfid/nfc stuff20:58
dm8tbrthe problem I see with it though is the total lack of security so far20:58
GeneralAntillesand total lack of reliability.20:59
GeneralAntillesI've never had Bluetooth manage to work well.20:59
GeneralAntillesHad another Bluetooth related kernel panic on my desktop last night, actually.20:59
Khertanhum look like an other fossil watch20:59
Khertanfor geek20:59
Khertanit s not yet available right ?20:59
Khertanstupid isp phone block pdf download ... grr20:59
Khertannfc can be secure ... depends of protocol used20:59
GeneralAntillesKhertan, shipping end of September.21:00
GeneralAntillesProbably going to be a tad large for my wrist. . . .21:00
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Khertansaying nfc isn t secure is like saying tcp isn t secure21:02
dm8tbrKhertan: problem is that secure element is not widely used21:02
dm8tbryes if you want security you have to build it on top21:02
RST38hMeanwhile: The Chinese want to capture an asteroid into earth's orbit and mine it.21:02
dm8tbrthere is IPsec below TCP ;)21:03
KhertanGeneralAntilles, generally all fossil geek watch have hugh size21:04
Khertani remember my wristpda21:04
Khertani hope this time battery will be better21:04
Khertanas wristpda need a recharge every 8hours21:04
javispedroPalmOS rulez!21:04
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javispedroMetawatch "Designed in Texas", sure.21:06
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* javispedro sighs at
Khertanirc chatter doesn t support well 10 min lost of network cover21:15
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Arkenoijavispedro: no bluetooth -> no connectivity -> sucks21:28
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TimmyTis there any repository for security updates? like updates for certificates used by email service providers23:26
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NIN101TimmyT: It seems that atm we are on our own. However, this thread contains useful information on how to get rid of the DigiNotar certificate. Also some guy  in this thread who wrote to nokia says they are working on an update.23:29
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* SpeedEvil imagines a fix accidentally coming with harmattan on n900.23:45
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