| flailingmonkey | "The Class number represents a multiple of 8 Mbit/s (1 MB/s), the least sustained write speeds for a card in a fragmented state (Class 2, 4, 6) or the minimum non-fragmented sequential write speed (Class 10)." | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| peterbjornxz | ok how many mb/s | 00:01 |
| mase76 | MohammadAG: hi! any idea, why your uboot package v46 does not boot? it powers off a few seconds after "starting kernel". maybe a hw revision issue? mine is 2104. | 00:02 |
| mase76 | pk46 without uboot works. | 00:03 |
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| peterbjornxz | well, maybe try reflashing or disabling watchdog | 00:07 |
| peterbjornxz | might just be too slow | 00:07 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it can | 00:24 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: but i don't have n900 to test it | 00:24 |
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| iluminator101 | n900 error unable to connect via usb device storage in use???? | 07:25 |
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| flailingmonkey | when connecting the N900 to a computer by USB, it attempts to unmount the MyDocs partition and export it to the computer | 07:37 |
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| flailingmonkey | it doesn't do that if you are using files from that partition, to prevent filesystem damage | 07:38 |
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| iluminator101 | hmm...i rebooted its working now | 07:38 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, that's a sure fire way to stop using files from the MyDocs partition :) | 07:38 |
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| iluminator101 | how i rename files in a folder for instance 01 03 docin 01.odt 02 03 docin 01.odt 03 03 docin 01.odt , i want to delete the leading 01 and 02 so forth in one single command | 07:47 |
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| infobot | robbiethe1st: please see ~usbfix! | 08:46 |
| Corsac | hmh, thinkpad tablet has cortex-a9 | 08:54 |
| robbiethe1st | <_< We need a thinkpad phone! | 08:55 |
| Corsac | hmhm, cortex-a9 but tegra 2 | 08:55 |
| Corsac | does that make sense? | 08:55 |
| Corsac | (they do a “lephone” but...) | 08:55 |
| Corsac | (not sure it's really a thinkphone) | 08:55 |
| Corsac | note that the early n900 versions looked a bit like a thinkpad :) | 08:56 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea, and even the production model has *some* resemblence | 08:57 |
| robbiethe1st | I.e. black, well-built, decent hardware and ability to run full-tilt without overheating | 08:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: one of my devices is all assigned to this project for you | 09:41 |
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| mece | do we have Qt 4.7.4 for N900 on some level? | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | no, but we'll have 4.8 in 1.3 | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | err, meego 1.3 | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | (wrong channel, sorry) | 10:27 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, yeah I wanted it for maemo5 | 10:29 |
| mece | there are some experimental qt packages in devel but they seem to be 4.7.0 :/ | 10:29 |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: ltnc | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: moo | 10:31 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: what's new? | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: not much | 10:32 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: what's the plan when Nokia finally stops working on MeeGo/N9? | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: currently we're working to make sustainable binaries | 10:33 |
| luke-jr | sustainable? | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | and ways to make sure they're always updated | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, as in, those kind of binaries that are closed but aren't bothering you except for philosophical reasons | 10:34 |
| luke-jr | they're still needed? :| | 10:34 |
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| luke-jr | anyhow, gotta get some sleep | 10:36 |
| luke-jr | night | 10:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | moin Stskeeps | 10:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Night luke-jr. | 10:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | moin SpeedEvil | 10:36 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: debatable. | 10:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It might be midday, I'm unsure. | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 10:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "moin" or "moin moin" -> Norther German greeting, don't mistake this for "morning" | 10:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | very close to UGT | 10:39 |
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| Triscar0- | what is the url of vlc repository? | 11:02 |
| psycho_oreos | http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/maemo/vlc/ | 11:04 |
| Sicelo | wow! didn't know that | 11:08 |
| psycho_oreos | fyi that isn't the proper way to add it as a repository :) | 11:09 |
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| Sicelo | yeah :P | 11:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's debatable if it's a proper way at all to add a repo for getting this one package | 11:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: err maybe that's what you said? | 11:14 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, *scratches head* well not exactly, what I meant was that I'm sure that person wanted the actual deb line :) | 11:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | right - then I answer he shouldn't do it this way at all, better get the .deb, or look for vlc in extras-devel (dunno if it's there) | 11:17 |
| Sicelo | isn't in extras-devel | 11:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | isn't a repo either? | 11:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wget http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/maemo/vlc/ | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | dpkg -i * | 11:23 |
| mece | wow getting qtcomponents to work on N900 is not trivial... | 11:23 |
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| psycho_oreos | that link is actually meant to be a repository :) if you dig around you'll see dists directory :) | 11:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, k. nevertheless I don't feel like adding a repo to my catalogs list for a single package | 11:25 |
| psycho_oreos | fyi: http://gerrymoth.co.uk/?p=278 | 11:26 |
| psycho_oreos | that's how one is supposed to add it into their HAM/fapman :) | 11:27 |
| psycho_oreos | but the technical good thing about adding the repository just for one package is that it makes apt take care of the guesswork | 11:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the bad thing is neither ham nor fapman are meant to handle long lists of catalogs in a non-sucking manner | 11:28 |
| psycho_oreos | indeed | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and each additional repo adds chances your daily (hourly?) automatic check for updates will fail due to one of them being temporarily not available, or simply fsackdup | 11:30 |
| psycho_oreos | though with all that in mind, fapman still handles better than HAM overall, afterall fapman is basically a GUI over apt-* tools | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | with all the problems this introduces. There's a reason HAM does additional things fapman doesn't bother to take care about. That's why fapman fails on some packages, also why sometimes fapman completely messes up all your database | 11:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ham as well is a gui with apt-get backend | 11:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and while there are definitely some idiotic things in ham that make it unbearably slow in handling, some of the stuff that ham does is quite needed and eventually you'll learn it's not a good idea fapman "optimized" them out | 11:34 |
| flailingmonkey | i have to say that with zypper i don't find myself missing apt :p | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | zypper on fremantle? o.O | 11:35 |
| mece | flailingmonkey, aptitude zypper whatever. they're all the same imo. | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 11:36 |
| flailingmonkey | i know, but one thing people got grumpy about with the whole deb vs. rpm thing was they wouldn't have apt | 11:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I couldn't care less, and I'm not joining in to the daily deb vs rpm flamewar :-D | 11:37 |
| flailingmonkey | yum... doesn't cut it IMO | 11:37 |
| mece | as far as I'm concerned apt == yum, aptitude == zypper | 11:38 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, but some things make HAM needlessly slow. for example it is not possible to choose a batch of packages to install. | 11:38 |
| mece | flux, didn't they add that in pr1.3? | 11:38 |
| flux | oh, nice :-) | 11:38 |
| mece | maybe not. | 11:38 |
| mece | I don't use ham | 11:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: I thought I pretty clearly stated above there are such idiotic flaws in HAM, yes | 11:38 |
| flux | also, another thing that has annoyed about apt/dpkg in general is that apparently binary databases are the evil | 11:39 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, I think the slow refresh is the biggest problem | 11:39 |
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| flux | but perhaps it's just a matter of someone writing an sqlite backend for it :) (and breaking tons of tools in the process perhaps) | 11:39 |
| mece | I think ham would be ok if all the lists were cached and automagically refreshed in the background (if set to do so) evey now and then, and when the app is launched the cached lists are shown. | 11:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mece: ack | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even across launches, just across installation steps | 11:41 |
| flux | mece, I also wouldn't mind if it supported the more recent (in debian) incremental updates of the database :) | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | though showing a cached list while updating in background was a really smart thing to do | 11:41 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought HAM heavily relies on its internal apt-worker.real program. Though with red pill enabled I saw an option to make HAM use apt-get algorithms | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: aiui apt-worker is a wrapper around apt-get | 11:42 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 11:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | never looked into it - a pstree would tell in an instant | 11:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might also be possible apt-worker and apt-get both use a libabtget.so that has all of the heavy lifting | 11:53 |
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| * psycho_oreos should probably try doing that.. hmm needs to be done on the secondary/spare N900 | 11:54 | |
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| psycho_oreos | nah it doesn't appear to call apt-get, gonna check on libaptget.so's reverse dependencies | 11:56 |
| psycho_oreos | apt-worke 11297 root mem REG 254,1 799464 8292 /usr/lib/libapt-pkg-libc6.5-6.so.4.6.0 <--- that's as far as I got when running lsof against the PID | 11:57 |
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| edheldil | btw, speaking of apt ... why nobody cared to pin / depend on those packages which must not be removed by autoremove? | 11:58 |
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| psycho_oreos | I think the level of concern is neglegible, most people would just use fancy GUI tools like HAM and fapman, be done with it | 12:00 |
| vi__ | NO | 12:00 |
| psycho_oreos | otoh some devs are probably a little careless ;) | 12:00 |
| psycho_oreos | you are | 12:00 |
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| vi__ | you will WGET packages, untar them manually and place the files by hand. | 12:00 |
| vi__ | that is your package manager | 12:00 |
| vi__ | and you will be glad of it. | 12:00 |
| Venemo_N950 | lol | 12:01 |
| psycho_oreos | and when you want to remove it, you manually remove every piece of the files by hand as well? | 12:01 |
| Venemo_N950 | hahaha | 12:01 |
| vi__ | psycho_oreos: well duh. | 12:01 |
| psycho_oreos | sounds plenty of fun and time wasting :) | 12:01 |
| vi__ | you simply keep a log of all installed files written with sed | 12:01 |
| psycho_oreos | anyhow, moving right along.. did you get that lock switch sorted? | 12:01 |
| edheldil | also automatic updates ... | 12:01 |
| vi__ | psycho_oreos: -_- | 12:02 |
| vi__ | I reflashed | 12:02 |
| edheldil | by the time you catter for all those ugly bits, you have reinvented apt/rpm again | 12:02 |
| vi__ | as a last hope effort | 12:02 |
| vi__ | GPIO113 is still spazzing out like a scoper | 12:02 |
| psycho_oreos | fyi apt is front end for dpkg.. and the actual filenames ends with .deb :) | 12:02 |
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| vi__ | HOWEVER | 12:03 |
| vi__ | I have just aquired a NEW N900 | 12:03 |
| vi__ | Never been used | 12:03 |
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| edheldil | gz ;-) | 12:03 |
| psycho_oreos | vi__, heh ouch, I was playing with mtd_debug today as per what DocScrutinizer mentioned for an alternative means of one backing up rootfs. I managed to see some strings in mtd0 (x-loader) with some information on GPIO | 12:03 |
| psycho_oreos | get gentoo, use the source.. luke ;) | 12:04 |
| vi__ | psycho_oreos: you have my attention, tell me more | 12:04 |
| vi__ | gentoo? nah, I have a gitlfriend. | 12:05 |
| psycho_oreos | vi__, its nothing of any particular interest but it seems like xloader may check some info, though most of which are purely debugging (r&d), memtesting and loading kernel purposes | 12:05 |
| vi__ | psycho_oreos: so...? | 12:05 |
| psycho_oreos | vi__, I saw this as a string, I really don't know if its of any use to you: gpio_switch_config has zero length! | 12:06 |
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| psycho_oreos | in fact there's a few more hits with searching for words gpio.. fyi this can be done without the need of mtd-utils, just strings /dev/mtd0| less | 12:08 |
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| psycho_oreos | in fact mtd_debug imo behaves very much like dd, I dumped mtd special devices to a regular file using both of these programs and the results were exact same, even the md5sums matched | 12:08 |
| psycho_oreos | the only worthy to note here is that the tools provided in mtd-utils provides more fascinating insight, like mtdinfo tells you what mtd devices belonged to what part. I never knew mtd0 was actually xloader | 12:10 |
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| * DocScrutinizer elects gitlfriend for the word of the day :-D | 12:11 | |
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| psycho_oreos | vi__, oh fyi, pastebin of grepped words matching gpio :)) http://pastebin.com/MtZ7thq9 | 12:12 |
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| psycho_oreos | lol | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, please, only words that are in the dictionary | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | ~dict girlfriend | 12:13 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'girlfriend' (2 of 3): a girl or young woman with whom a man is romantically involved; "his girlfriend kicked him out" ;; any female friend; "Mary and her girlfriend organized the party". | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: this clearlyx indicates mtd_debig had no bad blocks to take care of, otherwise the results of dd and mtd_debug would differ | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | See, doesn't exist. | 12:13 |
| fizzie | Gitlfriend must be a vesion-controlled girlfriend. | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | gitgf checkout 22yo | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | takes a whole new meaning | 12:14 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, true, I literally forgot about bad block handling, but I thought the alternative for one would then be to use dd_rescue? :) | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | gitgf checkout sister | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, as badblock management on mtd is a rather special thing | 12:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2011-08-17 17:18:49] <DocScrutinizer> disclaimer: I haven't *checked* if mtd_debug handles bad blocks correctly, just assumed it as otherwise the tool was rather redundant aka useless | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | redundant here means: "dd would be the same as mtd_debug" | 12:16 |
| mece | bwah stupid mailing lists. How do I know if this thing worked? | 12:16 |
| psycho_oreos | hah! *facepalms self* it pays to read the entire thing :) Though I have yet to find out exactly where my bad PEB is. I previously skimmed through some information on ubifs and jffs2 for instance and their way of handling files/errors and what not are very different to conventional means | 12:17 |
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| psycho_oreos | i.e. a pita for one to not be able to harness ubifs/jffs2 as a regular block device | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, that's what it's all about | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'd think mtd_debug has all the magic built in | 12:20 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, you *can* use it as a block device, but it won't preserve/handle bad blocks etc. | 12:20 |
| vi__ | Imma gonna ask a question | 12:20 |
| psycho_oreos | what now confuses me is that most likely prior to mounting these ubifs images is whether or not when after examining NAND chip and found a few PEB be added into the NAND or because its handled in its own unique way that the actual bad PEB is skipped out | 12:21 |
| vi__ | so I use flasher to unpack the rootfs firmware image and find a jffs2 'blob' | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | so now robbie could finally revert to / add optional handling of raw images to backupmenu, as it was in the very beginning and gut bashed for using dd and thus potentially doing harm to NAND as it didn't know to handle bad blocks | 12:21 |
| psycho_oreos | its not jffs2 blob, its ubifs for N900 :) | 12:21 |
| psycho_oreos | true | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ gut / got / | 12:22 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: so now robbie could finally revert to / add optional handling of raw images to backupmenu, as it was in the very beginning and got bashed for using dd and thus potentially doing harm to NAND as it didn't know to handle bad blocks | 12:22 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 12:22 |
| psycho_oreos | s/few/few\ bad/ | 12:22 |
| vi__ | so are we any closer to creating custom firmware images that we can flash? | 12:23 |
| psycho_oreos | doubt it | 12:23 |
| vi__ | ^*noob question* | 12:23 |
| robbiethe1st | IIRC, we could already do that. | 12:23 |
| robbiethe1st | It requires a Linux PC, mtd-utils, a tarball of files and a couple of commands | 12:24 |
| vi__ | I have all these things | 12:24 |
| vi__ | where is documentation? | 12:24 |
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| vi__ | and are backupmenu tarballs good enough? | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1072242&postcount=14 | 12:25 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes. | 12:25 |
| vi__ | can I shove my own kernel into the image as well? | 12:25 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes and no: we don't yet know how to make a "combined" image, but we can flash kernel and rootfs independantly with flasher | 12:26 |
| robbiethe1st | those are both doable | 12:26 |
| robbiethe1st | the kernel's not anything special; just grab the file from any N900 kernel deb package | 12:26 |
| mece | ok who's on maemo-developers mailing list? | 12:27 |
| vi__ | that link is just to DocScrutinizer smack talk about how great it would be. | 12:27 |
| vi__ | is there any actual documentation WRT rolling our own firmwares? | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | fiascogen being a buzzword for that aiui | 12:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q=fiascogen | 12:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=74121 >>how to generate flashable eMMC image with fiasco-gen and flasher<< | 12:30 |
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| vi__ | fiasco-gen needs a kernel image | 12:36 |
| vi__ | is this 'zimage'? | 12:36 |
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| vi__ | fiasco-gen needs a rootfsimage | 12:36 |
| vi__ | is this simply a rootfs tarball | 12:36 |
| robbiethe1st | zimage = kernel | 12:36 |
| vi__ | aka BUM tarball? | 12:37 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought rootfsimage == ubifs image | 12:37 |
| robbiethe1st | it's a rootfs ubifs image | 12:37 |
| vi__ | (BUM==BackUpMenu) | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~bum | 12:37 |
| infobot | methinks bum is Turkish word. | 12:37 |
| vi__ | So i have to convert the BUM tarball to an UBIFS filesystem? | 12:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~bum is also maemo BackUpMenu | 12:37 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 12:38 |
| vi__ | ~dict BUM | 12:38 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'BUM' (4 of 14): the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on; "he deserves a good kick in the butt"; "are you going to sit on your fanny and do nothing?" ;; of very poor quality ;; person who does no work; "a lazy bum" ;; a disreputable vagrant; "a homeless tramp"; "he tried to help the really down-and-out bums" . | 12:38 |
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| robbiethe1st | It will take: extracting archive to a Linux filesystem(to preserve permissions), setting up and running the ubifs utility(i forget the name), etc | 12:39 |
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| robbiethe1st | there's a guide around: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html | 12:39 |
| vi__ | robbiethe1st: much obliged robbie the thiest | 12:40 |
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| vi__ | so in short: | 12:41 |
| vi__ | 1. convert ~BUM tarball to ubifs using the above | 12:42 |
| vi__ | 2. extract the kernel I want to includes zimage (asumming the modules are already in the rootfsimage) | 12:43 |
| robbiethe1st | 3. flash both individually | 12:43 |
| vi__ | 3. use fiasco-gen to roll the lot into a rootfs.bin for flasher | 12:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Don't need to | 12:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Just use the -k and -r options | 12:44 |
| vi__ | 4. restore opt with BUM (assuming BUM included in rootfs) | 12:44 |
| x29a_ | good morning, im trying to pack a .deb for an arm architecture, but i get the error: dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for mylib.so - how would i generate that information? i have the .so in place but that doesnt seem to be enough. the target is an n900 smartphone, so the package is crosscompiled using the qtsdk | 12:44 |
| vi__ | x29a_: lol, i dunno | 12:44 |
| x29a_ | the builtin libs (beeing qt mobility 1.0.2) work, but i need 1.2 features :( | 12:45 |
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| vi__ | has meego stopeed sucking asses yet? | 13:06 |
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| x29a_ | vi__: id go to #meego with that question ;) | 13:57 |
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| mece | vi__, depends on what you mean. | 14:01 |
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| vi__ | I just looked over the report for the lates build. | 14:09 |
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| vi__ | The camera doesnt even work | 14:09 |
| vi__ | fail | 14:09 |
| vi__ | when simple things like 'dialer does not launch when selecting contact from phone book' is the level of error they are still dealing with | 14:10 |
| vi__ | ... | 14:10 |
| vi__ | Just slap the fcam drivers+fcamera on that shit and use it as the default! | 14:11 |
| vi__ | I want it to work so bad | 14:11 |
| vi__ | meego that is | 14:11 |
| vi__ | to ACTUALLY be a viable alternative to maemo | 14:12 |
| vi__ | welcome to obsolete ville. Population, N900. | 14:12 |
| BCMM | doesn't it already work so bad? | 14:13 |
| TimmyT | i've a question about meego, can i ask it here? kuz ppl at #meego are asleep | 14:13 |
| vi__ | TimmyT: lol, ok | 14:13 |
| vi__ | . | 14:14 |
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| vi__ | problem is it has no interface | 14:15 |
| vi__ | there was that whole cordia thing, but i guess that is dead now | 14:15 |
| vi__ | handset UX==interfECES | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: (<vi__> 4. restore opt with BUM (assuming BUM included in rootfs) ) That's the plan, as of my book | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: actually that's what I meant by "integration" and "interoperability" int that #14 tmo post | 14:21 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: no reason to thank me, I don't think I gave any help or sth yet :-) | 14:37 |
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| vi__ | what with the impending doom of maemo, it is important for me to make my own 'image' that I can use to restore my own device without any outside help | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | full ack | 14:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | restore via BUM still somewhat depends on a working repo infra etc, that's not my ideal workflow | 14:40 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: why does it depend? | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | the fiasco image that already contains BUM is a mandatory component for a proper comprehensive recovery strategy | 14:41 |
| vi__ | yes | 14:42 |
| robbiethe1st | Also, I have to wonder why people started calling it BUM instead of BM? | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course a fiasco img that actually restores _my_ system incl all the customized bits would be even greater | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, concern noticed | 14:42 |
| robbiethe1st | Seems like this mutation occured on this channel, tonight only | 14:42 |
| vi__ | it did | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~forget bum | 14:43 |
| infobot | i forgot bum, DocScrutinizer | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~bum | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 14:43 |
| robbiethe1st | ~bm | 14:43 |
| infobot | bm is, like, bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda | 14:43 |
| robbiethe1st | ~backupmenu | 14:43 |
| infobot | i guess backupmenu is http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-October/004562.html | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~bm is also ~backupmenu | 14:43 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 14:43 |
| vi__ | think of ot as acronym in the vain o 'gimp' or 'wanker 2.1' | 14:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Um... I think we need a better link there | 14:44 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: that is what I am aiming for. | 14:44 |
| robbiethe1st | ~backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 14:44 |
| infobot | ...but backupmenu is already something else... | 14:44 |
| vi__ | taking the rootfs BM tarball | 14:44 |
| robbiethe1st | ~forget backupmenu | 14:44 |
| infobot | i forgot backupmenu, robbiethe1st | 14:44 |
| robbiethe1st | ~backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 14:45 |
| infobot | robbiethe1st: okay | 14:45 |
| vi__ | plus the kernel I want and sticking it in my OWN fiasco image | 14:45 |
| robbiethe1st | ~bm | 14:45 |
| infobot | methinks bm is bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda, or ~backupmenu | 14:45 |
| robbiethe1st | ~bm is also ~backupmenu | 14:45 |
| infobot | robbiethe1st: okay | 14:45 |
| vi__ | this combined with my OWN opt tarball covers everything | 14:45 |
| robbiethe1st | ~bm | 14:45 |
| infobot | bm is probably bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda, or ~backupmenu, or ~backupmenu | 14:45 |
| vi__ | kernel, rootfs&opt | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~no, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 14:46 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: i already had it that way | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, bm is bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda, or ~backupmenu | 14:46 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf is bob mutch? | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, bm is <reply>see backupmenu | 14:47 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~bm | 14:48 |
| infobot | hmm... backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 14:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi__: please join efforts with NIN101 and robbiethe1st (and mentalist traceur ?) to create this topmost important and useful set of tools/packages | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi__: for example there still seems _no_ way yet to backup a kernel | 14:56 |
| vi__ | good point | 14:56 |
| vi__ | however, you are 1 of 3 people | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure you can flash same kernel _again_ (if you actually know what's been the package that installed the one you use right now) | 14:56 |
| vi__ | 1, you are running stock kernel | 14:57 |
| vi__ | 2, you are running kernel form the repo | 14:57 |
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| vi__ | 3, you are running custom kernel | 14:57 |
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| vi__ | Perhaps a way to 'figure' the users kernel is not to look at the kernel itself but to look at what the user has. | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: I'm 1 of 3? err, not 7 of 9? ;-) | 15:00 |
| vi__ | heh | 15:00 |
| CodenameStrike | Need some info. | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I didn't get that comment | 15:00 |
| CodenameStrike | If I were to install that 2.6.28-10 kernel | 15:00 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: I am still typing | 15:00 |
| CodenameStrike | what functions will I be missing? | 15:00 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: um what? | 15:01 |
| CodenameStrike | I've been hearing about the ability to use some phone functions after getting that kernel to install. | 15:01 |
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| CodenameStrike | Using N900 btw | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | CodenameStrike: sorry, please elaborate | 15:01 |
| vi__ | answer=info in*understanding= | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# uname -a | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux | 15:02 |
| CodenameStrike | please wait | 15:02 |
| CodenameStrike | I forgot the name of that package | 15:02 |
| CodenameStrike | looking it up | 15:02 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: first you check apt-list to see if they have installed any kernels | 15:03 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: if not then they are either 1 or 3 | 15:03 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: (unless they installed the kernel manually in which case it gets a whoile lot harder) | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | yoh, doesn't matter. I don't want to find out what's the kernel I got, I simply want to vreate a backup of it that I can restore any time | 15:04 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: wait, can't you just dd /dev/mtd0 to somthing? | 15:04 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: yes, but if the problem is you cant read it from the device, you have to get it from elsewhere] | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: NO! but you _can_ mtd_debug read /dev/mtd0 | 15:05 |
| CodenameStrike | The Linux Kernel for Power User package | 15:05 |
| CodenameStrike | I'm contemplating on installing it | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | CodenameStrike: powerkernel is mostly safe | 15:05 |
| CodenameStrike | however I'm also hearing that you can lose some functionalities doing so | 15:06 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: do you have -extras-development enabled? | 15:06 |
| CodenameStrike | yes | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | CodenameStrike: none known so far | 15:06 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: right that will get you version e7 | 15:06 |
| vi__ | e7? 47! | 15:06 |
| vi__ | which is fine | 15:06 |
| CodenameStrike | So I might be reading old posts from maemo.org then | 15:06 |
| vi__ | you WILL have to uninstall then Re-install the fcamera drivers if you have them | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | there may be flaws or bugs in PK, but no missing functionality | 15:07 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: quite possibly | 15:07 |
| CodenameStrike | oh | 15:07 |
| CodenameStrike | so basically | 15:07 |
| TimmyT | this is the output of my terminal here http://pastebin.com/ndphvVVX, after pressing the enter key on the keyboard, i can't turn the phone on. also it does nothin anymore and a something is on the display of the phone that says: starting netcat for initial connection chech, but does nothin. if i write something on my phone and press enter it will be shown on the terminal windows in my pc | 15:07 |
| CodenameStrike | what I'd do is | 15:07 |
| TimmyT | im sorry for asking my question here | 15:07 |
| CodenameStrike | uninstall and then reinstall the fcamera drivers? | 15:07 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: AFTER installing power kernel. | 15:07 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: if they fail to work | 15:07 |
| CodenameStrike | oh | 15:07 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: are you ising apt or fapman? | 15:08 |
| vi__ | s/ising/using | 15:08 |
| CodenameStrike | fapman. | 15:08 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: I always use apt, but whats the worst that could happen ay? | 15:08 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: just do a backup first | 15:09 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: with backupmenu | 15:09 |
| CodenameStrike | Whoa | 15:09 |
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| CodenameStrike | libwv, libwmf | 15:09 |
| CodenameStrike | gsfonts, defoma | 15:09 |
| CodenameStrike | those packages are going to be removed. | 15:09 |
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| CodenameStrike | Are these OK or something | 15:09 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: while it is 99% likely to work. God klnows what half finished nitdroid crap multiboot mess you have lying around. | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: fapman is kinda notorious to fail especially on powerkernel package installation | 15:10 |
| CodenameStrike | nitdroid? | 15:10 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: fair enough | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | NEVER do any autoremove either | 15:10 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: you have your n900 infront of you? | 15:10 |
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| CodenameStrike | vi__: Yes | 15:11 |
| punished_enough | :( | 15:11 |
| vi__ | punished_enough: chill the fuck out sadface. | 15:12 |
| vi__ | punished_enough: no one here really knows much about installing meego | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | s for installing PK you either go HAM, or apt-get install <all_THREE_*PK*.debs | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | > | 15:12 |
| vi__ | punished_enough: the best I can suggest is reflash EVERYTHING back to stock then try again | 15:12 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: you have rootsh and sudser installed? | 15:12 |
| CodenameStrike | rootsh yes, but not sudser | 15:13 |
| CodenameStrike | Well if there's a way I can overclock the n900 without having to install the powerkernel | 15:13 |
| CodenameStrike | It'd be enough for me. | 15:13 |
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| vi__ | CodenameStrike: have you installed sudo? | 15:13 |
| CodenameStrike | uh | 15:13 |
| CodenameStrike | sudo doesn't come with n900? | 15:14 |
| CodenameStrike | because I got this by second hand | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sudser??? WTF? | 15:14 |
| CodenameStrike | else I don't know how "sudo gainroot" worked. | 15:14 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: I cannot remember the name of the program | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | rootsh | 15:14 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: fair enough | 15:14 |
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| CodenameStrike | Oops | 15:15 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: If you have a second hand device I would HIGHLY recommend doing a complete reflash before getting into customising it for yourself | 15:15 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: anyhow... | 15:15 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: open xterm | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | CodenameStrike: prepare for getting ignored completely when you ask "how do I overclock" - it's considered a terribly poor idea to OC for mere leetness | 15:15 |
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| vi__ | CodenameStrike: type 'sudo gainroot' for root shell | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 15:16 |
| infobot | it has been said that omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 15:16 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: dont rain on his parade! | 15:16 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: have you opened xterm yet? | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi__: for proper rootshell you type "root", not "sudo gainroot" | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | gainroot doesn't set up root environment | 15:17 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: I know, however I dont know what packages he has installed. If he can get a root shell from sudo gainroot then that will be enough for apt | 15:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. your $HOME $PATH and whatnot still is that of user | 15:18 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: ouch | 15:18 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: fortunatley I only use 'root' then | 15:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to be utterly clear: gainroot==su root==su - | 15:19 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: therefore (sudo gainroot)=(sudo su) | 15:21 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: sudo su | 15:21 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: dirty | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually "root" (the script) comes with gainroot afaik | 15:21 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: are you away taking a shit? | 15:21 |
| vi__ | CodenameStrike: you want help with this thing or what? | 15:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~seen CodenameStrike | 15:22 |
| infobot | codenamestrike is currently on #maemo (44m 42s). Has said a total of 34 messages. Is idling for 7m 13s, last said: 'Oops'. | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | figure! | 15:22 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: last words 'oops' | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 15:22 |
| vi__ | i want my last words to be? | 15:23 |
| vi__ | i want my last words to be: | 15:23 |
| * vi__ can I?? hold my beer and watch this! | 15:23 | |
| chem|st | good choice! | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | my last word for a while: | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl o/ | 15:24 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: wtf? | 15:30 |
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| CodenameStrike | Sorry | 15:40 |
| CodenameStrike | I just took a dinner. | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: o/ | 15:50 |
| javispedro | hello | 15:50 |
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| rly | When I follow these instructions, I get that the password for user cannot be changed: http://scratching.psybermonkey.net/2010/06/n900-how-to-ssh-into-n900-using-openssh.html | 15:56 |
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| rly | sudo gainroot; passwd user | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | use "root", not "sudo gainroot" - though that's probably unrelated to your problem that I can't reproduce | 15:59 |
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| * javispedro ponders if twitter deletes old stuff -- seemingly in my home the world was created by god around 1h ago because there's no activity before that. | 16:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: I'm not inclined to proofread that psybermonkynet website, but I know during install of ssh-server pkg you are asked for setting a root password | 16:00 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: I didn't get asked that. I just installed it via HAM. | 16:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, and that shall rise a requester asking for setting root password IIRC | 16:01 |
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| rly | DocScrutinizer: just "root" does not exist. | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no idea what's up with your system | 16:02 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: root is a part of rootsh, right? | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought so, yes | 16:02 |
| xkr47 | http://www.nokia.com/ | 16:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | xkr47: Wow! | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | xkr47: Innovative web design. | 16:03 |
| xkr47 | completely new | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Optimised for the mobile web. | 16:04 |
| xkr47 | the html looks like someone accidentally removed 100 lines from the middle | 16:04 |
| rly | Or perhaps it is Anonymous wanting a new n900 successor? | 16:04 |
| xkr47 | sell n950 and we'll stop! | 16:05 |
| xkr47 | heh | 16:05 |
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| javispedro | new design | 16:05 |
| javispedro | ? | 16:05 |
| * javispedro fails to see anything | 16:05 | |
| kkoehne | Hi, I got an e-mail that I can promote my package. I'm on the package site, logged in, Status is "Promotion unlocked, waiting for maintainter to promote" ... but no promote button anywhere :( | 16:06 |
| kkoehne | That is, for http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qtquickcompat/0.1.0/ | 16:06 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: I didn't have rootsh, but now I do. | 16:07 |
| kkoehne | Oh, it seems the mail was just wrong. The package is already promoted. | 16:10 |
| crashanddie | ~ping | 16:13 |
| infobot | ~pong | 16:13 |
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| rly | How can I set the ip address of the n900? | 16:22 |
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| vi__ | rly: ifconfig wlan0 <your ip address> | 16:23 |
| fizzie | Or settings / internet connections / connections / <connection> / edit / N*next / advanced / ip addresses, for a per-connection fixed IP. (Or just have the other end DHCP it out.) | 16:24 |
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| rly | fizzie: the problem is that I want to connect from some other device to this device and if the ip address changes every single time, I cannot do that reliably. | 16:28 |
| yacc | Any idea what could be the reason for my N900 to show "no conversation", even after I send a text? | 16:29 |
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| fizzie | In my case I just have the other end's DHCP server assign a known IP based on the N900's MAC, but admittedly that might not be applicable in many cases. | 16:29 |
| rly | fizzie: the other end is a laptop running Ubuntu. | 16:30 |
| fizzie | Well, if you *wanted* to do it with DHCP, that'd be something like host blah { fixed-address 1.2.3.4; hardware ethernet 00:11:22:33:44:55; } in dhcpd.conf. But I suppose configuring a fixed IP on the phone side is easier. | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rly: there is one basic info missing: how do you connect? | 16:33 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: via the adhoc wifi provided by the laptop. | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | USB? WLAN-adhoc? WLAN-infra? | 16:33 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: WLAN-adhoc | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, nfc how adhoc negotiates IP addr | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | prollay via that friggin MS protocol that just tries an ARP request on a random IP and picks that IP wehn nobody answers | 16:35 |
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| fizzie | At least the Settings/Connections setup screen does have an Advanced button + fixed-IP settings for an adhoc connection too, that sounds like it'd be likely to work. | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suggest you check your settings-internet-networks-advanced settings on N900 for that adhoc connection | 16:36 |
| rly | What should I use for my dns server then? The address of my laptop? | 16:36 |
| rly | Since the other network parts (of which the laptop is a part) are probably unreachable by the phone, right? | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly - or 8.8.8.8 ;-D | 16:37 |
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| rly | That's the G one, I know. | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway my adhoc config here has 192.168.4.15 | 16:38 |
| rly | How can I see if there is still a simlock on it? | 16:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's actually not easy to answer. There are AT cmds to query simlock status but I think they are not supported by pnatd | 16:50 |
| GunArm | why is it that when I am browsing for a files through file manager I can see all kinds of stuff on my memory card (like my DCIM folder) but when adding an email attatchment it shows the memory card is empty? | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 16:52 |
| GunArm | i guess i have to go through file manager, bring up the context menu and share via email | 16:53 |
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| Sazpaimon | http://www.lingosbox.com/product_info.php?language=en¤cy=USD&products_id=2930 | 16:53 |
| Sazpaimon | does this look like a god price for a replacement digitizer+screen? | 16:53 |
| Sazpaimon | i dropped the corner of my laptop battery charger on my N900 and it broke right through the screen | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: quick check makes me think that's a capital bug in modest mail client | 16:53 |
| Sazpaimon | so I need a replacement digitizer AND screen | 16:54 |
| GunArm | doc hmm ok | 16:54 |
| Sazpaimon | because the digitizer has a nice big crack on it | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: this is only the digitizer though | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | prize looks good | 16:55 |
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| Sazpaimon | DocScrutinizer, you sure? | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: you'll need an LCD as well, if that's also broken | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes I'm sure | 16:56 |
| Sazpaimon | oh yeah, you're right | 16:56 |
| Sazpaimon | well in that case | 16:56 |
| Sazpaimon | http://www.acceport.com/product_info.php?language=en¤cy=USD&products_id=1836 | 16:57 |
| Sazpaimon | that looks like a better price | 16:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll gasp when you find out about the LCD though | 16:58 |
| Sazpaimon | is it a crazy hard repalcement job? | 16:58 |
| Sazpaimon | or expensive | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | just friggin 100++ bucks for LCD iirc | 16:58 |
| Sazpaimon | http://www.globaldirectparts.com/OEM-Nokia-N900-LCD-p/nkia3063750.htm google says this is $43 | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you *might* be better off with a used broken N900 with a good scratchfree screen | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF? those parts got pretty affordable | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ohhh OEM | 17:00 |
| Sazpaimon | http://www.amazon.com/Screen-Display-Nokia-Mobile-Replacement/dp/B0055MQ408 | 17:00 |
| Sazpaimon | whats wrong with OEM LCDs | 17:00 |
| Sazpaimon | are they low quality? | 17:00 |
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| Sazpaimon | http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Screen-Display-Nokia-Prying/dp/B005G5WZGG this isnt a nokia screen | 17:01 |
| Sazpaimon | its 3rd party | 17:01 |
| Sazpaimon | only $41 | 17:01 |
| GunArm | is it normal to be able to send mms' through fmms but not recieve them? | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | LCD: http://www.acceport.com/genuine-original-nokia-n900-lcd-display-screen-panel-replacement-with-open-tool.html digitizer with frame: http://www.acceport.com/oem-nokia-n900-touch-screen-digitizer-free-open-tool.html | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: no - but ask frals | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: pretty good deal at this shop. Prices are OK | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno about quality, as long as it states "Genuine Nokia" I'd just believe that until I unpack the package :-) | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2nd source mech components often are of poor precision | 17:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 2nd source electronic components are a bit of gambling: might fit 100%, might even be better than original, but also might not at all meet the specs of the original part. Esp for LCD you easily can see how OEM parts might "just work" and still are way below par wrt genuine part | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g lots of dead pixels, poor contrast, poor backlight, whatnot else | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | or you get the improoved version Hitachi produced after they sold the crap to Nokia ;-P | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you never know | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2011-08-18 11:12:54] <psycho_oreos> vi__, oh fyi, pastebin of grepped words matching gpio :)) http://pastebin.com/MtZ7thq9 | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | this in fact looks rather intriguing | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | might make me think there are some cool lowlevel debugging tools hidden in ... err what? x-loader? | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, mtd0 actually is NOLO | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | x-loader + NOLO? *cough* | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously it has to be x-loader and NOLO in one partition, as I couldn't tell where else any of both could live | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess NOLO has some hidden qualities | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably only available via serial console | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | or via usb-tty | 17:26 |
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| javispedro | well there has to be a reason they keep on using NOLO | 17:29 |
| javispedro | I doubt it's because it's cheao | 17:29 |
| javispedro | *cheap | 17:29 |
| javispedro | probably it's rather well integrated with their diagnosis system | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Prompt keypress detected<< | 17:30 |
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| dm8tbr | pretty standard stuff for boot loaders, isn't it :) | 17:30 |
| dm8tbr | and yes, that includes the 'strings in binary, but no obvious way to get to the functionality' part | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | strings /dev/mtd0ro|grep -A 300 'Polling power key'|less | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | blizzard | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | internal | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | tornado | 17:33 |
| Arkenoi | my n900 is acting weird: if you fully charge it after almost complete battery drain, and then remove charger, for a brief period of time it thinks that battery is empty and tries to shut itself down! | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | blizzard | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | YAY | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | define "brief" | 17:35 |
| GunArm | ever notice how unpredicable charging is with non-nokia-sanctioned wall-to-usb cables? i have to plug-unplug between 8 and 15 times before it starts charging? | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | (I suspect a defect cell with rather high Z, so removing charger makes it drop a lot of voltage) | 17:36 |
| GunArm | the nokia cable starts charging right away | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: nonsense | 17:37 |
| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: a second or two. sometimes it really shuts off (it apparently does not understand that battery was really charged and shows battery level that was straight before charging), sometimes it actually catches the fact that battery is fully charged now and works normally. | 17:37 |
| GunArm | docscrutinizer ...i used to have to do it every night before I found my nokia charger, my girlfriend would try to guess how many plugs it would take without going over, ie 9 | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: for no name chargers you either have D+- short then it shall work as with Nokia CA-10, or you don't have D+- short then I wonder if 15 mating rounds would make the N900 start charging at anything better than 100mA | 17:38 |
| GunArm | same thing happens with non nokia cables plugged into a pc | 17:38 |
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| crashanddie | GunArm, you believe in Jesus and that True Blood is secretly a hidden prophecy, right? | 17:39 |
| Arkenoi | i have two nokia chargers visually indistinguishable , one starts charging immediately, the second may do or may not | 17:39 |
| Mek | before my usb port started dying I had similar symptoms, but then with all nokia stuff; some nokia cables would still work easily, some would be much more problematic | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: you got a defective USB plug or receptacle somewhere | 17:39 |
| GunArm | crashanddie, i believe in Jesus in the sense that he is a made up person | 17:40 |
| GunArm | docscrutinizer what is a D+-short? | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | I've started lobbying my local government to make it a requirement to print "All characters in this book are fictional" in all Bibles. | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, with charging from wallcharger there's definitely noting beyond 4 contacts with wires attached, one minus, one plus, and two shorted to each other | 17:41 |
| chem|st | GunArm: D is the data pins on the cable | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: the data lines of USB, the middle 2 pins of a standard A USB | 17:42 |
| GunArm | oh i see | 17:42 |
| GunArm | so to charge we get ground, power and then short the two data pins | 17:42 |
| chem|st | yes | 17:42 |
| GunArm | interestink | 17:42 |
| GunArm | if the datapins dont short, it wont charge? | 17:43 |
| GunArm | maybe one of the data pin prongs on that wire was malformed | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | sometimes when you mate sloppy, it doesn't detect the D+- short and comes up with "mass storage / PC mode" requester as it thinks it's a PC | 17:43 |
| GunArm | ah so no D+- sort and it should still react just not like it should to a wall | 17:44 |
| GunArm | it wouldnt react at all until that magical 13th mating | 17:44 |
| GunArm | its not really an issue now since i found my real cable, im just curiuos. I lived with this for 6 months every night | 17:45 |
| GunArm | when it was mated and didnt react, no amount of wiggling the cable would make it react, | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually scratch my mass-storage comment - it doesn't react at all to a wallcharger with missing D+- short | 17:46 |
| GunArm | it had to be reseated until it reacted, and then no amount of wiggling the cable seemed to make it lose its charging connection, so I took that to mean it wasnt a connector problem | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least when battery is already charged (won't discharge it now, just to test ;-D) | 17:46 |
| GunArm | yes! | 17:46 |
| GunArm | actually | 17:46 |
| GunArm | come to think of it, when it was TOTALLY drained and off, it would charge from the first mating. I forgot about that, as I never wanted to let it actually die | 17:47 |
| GunArm | so its probably a malformed data pin on the cable | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually noname wallwart chargers miss the D+- short, as do almost all car charger plugs | 17:48 |
| GunArm | yep, same experience with the car charger | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | so your 13 mate cycles may be a 'magic incantation' to trick N900 into seeing sth that's not there | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | you *could* even call that a bug then | 17:49 |
| GunArm | lol that it ever worked you mean? | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a somewhat silly spec by Nokia, but N900 isn't supposed to work with chargers that don't have D+- short | 17:50 |
| GunArm | or maybe it had the d+- short, but one of the pins wasnt reliably connecting | 17:50 |
| GunArm | so 1/10 trys it would actually seat | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's been my first idea | 17:50 |
| GunArm | but then wiggling would have affected it | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 17:50 |
| GunArm | oh well | 17:50 |
| GunArm | thanks for clearing it up somewhat | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | though after initial detection D+- is't tested anymore | 17:51 |
| GunArm | oh that explains why it wouldnt lose it | 17:51 |
| GunArm | are you a nokia engineer? | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ DocScrutinizer | 17:51 |
| infobot | you are probably jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 17:51 |
| crashanddie | is it really still to the point to cite OpenMoko? | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe, believe it or not, I still take pide in it | 17:52 |
| GunArm | cool | 17:52 |
| crashanddie | very much pide I'm sure. | 17:52 |
| GunArm | why? is it an old project? | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | a dead one as well | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | mostly | 17:53 |
| GunArm | what do you think about open source phones now? | 17:53 |
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| GunArm | i know thats a broad question... | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a notorious poor hw one, though that's not my fault but my fortune | 17:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I joined to fix a few things | 17:53 |
| yacc | Well, if I remember right, the stupid phone had not even EGPRS, ... | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | Let's check the latest news on openmoko... Android, Android, Debian, QtMoko that now has the ability to connect to wifi more than once every reboot w00p w00p! | 17:54 |
| GunArm | after my experience with the n900, i have mixed feelings about open source phones | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 hw is all but open | 17:54 |
| yacc | GunArm, how so? | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, it's a shame though, for me OpenMoko was an amazing project, diseased by a stupid lead team. | 17:54 |
| yacc | Actually, n900 is a mixed batch quality-wise anyway, ... | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | I bought two full on dev kits of the openmoko | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: indeed | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | after 3 months and still no news of delivery, I asked for my money back | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | Took another 2 months before I got it, but at least I got it back. | 17:55 |
| GunArm | when I describe my phone to people, because no one has ever heard of the n900 or its platform, i tell them that its a full linux kernel, that was unsuccessful because the apps are totally free, you download them like softoware out of an ubuntu repo, and the problem is that theres no commercial drive for developers to make them work well or make very many of them | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: duh what? OM never ever accepted prepayment | 17:56 |
| GunArm | the lack of commercial development incentive is a killer | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, they did by check! | 17:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | strange | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | Hey, I was just getting into adulthood, getting my checks back, even though never cashed, was a very big deal to me. | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: I'm actually SOOO happy about that | 17:57 |
| GunArm | what do you mean | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: unbearable to have 3176 fart apps for maemo | 17:57 |
| GunArm | thats true | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think we got some 1000 apps in repos for fremantle | 17:58 |
| GunArm | but with the fart apps and "the hangover" sound boards, you also get useful apps that have gone through full dev cycle and QA | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | not all of them are great | 17:58 |
| GunArm | the n900 has such sweet hardware | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I'm actually not missing any 'commercial drive' | 17:58 |
| GunArm | but lack of the ability to use half of it | 17:58 |
| crashanddie | The N900 has never been plagued by the lack of software, nor the fact that the software was free. | 17:58 |
| crashanddie | That is seriously, the least problem of the N900. | 17:58 |
| GunArm | i seriously disagree | 17:58 |
| GunArm | ive been using this phone for 2 years | 17:59 |
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| GunArm | and i feel like every app or software is developed JUST enough to show your friend "hey look how cool this is" but not enough to actually use | 17:59 |
| GunArm | i was NEVER able to get irreco to work | 17:59 |
| crashanddie | Yes, and that has nothing to with monetisation. | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | just works fine here | 17:59 |
| crashanddie | (same here) | 17:59 |
| javispedro | yeah, bad example | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | Because nothing ever stopped devs from implementing licensing inside the apps themselves. | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | modulo the weak IR LED | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: indeed | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | What fucked Maemo up is the amount of choices to make when you wanted to dev for it. | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | A crooked development environment (scratchbox), and TOO MANY CHOICES. | 18:00 |
| * javispedro disagrees | 18:00 | |
| crashanddie | People come here, and asked "How do I develop for Maemo?" | 18:00 |
| Jaffa | Af'noon all | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's been sygic and a lot of people were willing to spend money on it | 18:00 |
| javispedro | none of the choices worked | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | On Android, iPhone, you get one development environment, simulator, whatnot. | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | same for angry birds level packs | 18:01 |
| javispedro | crashanddie: if you have a great "favoured" choice for newbies all is well, the number doesn't matter at all. | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | One language, mainly, with examples, and bam, you're going. | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi Jaffa | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | But people joining this channel, over the years, asking "How should I dev?" | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | And a flamewar ensued | 18:01 |
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| javispedro | but we had Gtk+ -- unteachable to noobs, Qt -- half working, QML -- never worked. | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | "C++ W00T GTK+ w00t" | 18:01 |
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| crashanddie | Some autistic devs screaming "Nooo, do everything in bash command line" | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | Lastly, some were hitting at Qt, which didn't work if a Troll's life depended on it | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol for flamewar - so true | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | Other were telling you to use C. | 18:02 |
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| crashanddie | 5 minutes later, the newbie asking for help would go away with a "/quit wtf fuck this, nerds" | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | and the community, it's geeky community everyone loved so much | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | is the only thing that drove Maemo into the wall. | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and finally luke-jr jumped in and explained to all of us Qt isn't a toolkit but a language | 18:03 |
| GunArm | for me with irreco its not just the hardware, the implementation of the software is TOO customizable, you have to find all the codes and then build the remote one button at a time, its so unintutive I couldnt even ever make it work with youtube tutorials, thats only one program but theres no alternatives, which is the sortof almost socialist problem with open source in general, a single community built solution without competition | 18:03 |
| GunArm | the only game that was ever worth playing that doesnt crash when you try to run it (like 50% of them) is numptyphysics | 18:04 |
| crashanddie | Because "free as in beer" is only good when the system is ready to roll. You need a framework to build something, and that is something that Maemo has never been able to offer. It gave you a dozen tools to build your own framework. | 18:04 |
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| crashanddie | I mean, fuck me, one of the greatest tools to come out of Maemo is lcuk's liqbase, and he wrote everything from scratch, and it took him what, 15 years of thinking before he got his concept right. | 18:05 |
| GunArm | games are important on phones, more than even on computers for me, and open source games typically just dont get the dev time | 18:05 |
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| GunArm | n900fly is a good game tho ;) | 18:06 |
| javispedro | the problem is that the current situation is not really improved much. | 18:06 |
| javispedro | we now have Qt that doesn't work, QML that works somethat, and MTF that works but is unteachable. | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: there've been several IR-controls tailored to target exactly one appliance. Too bad none of them met your needs | 18:06 |
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| crashanddie | GunArm, open source android games: andoku, asqare, caverns of fire, frozen bubble, hot death, knave arthur's sword, lexic, gymkhana, nethack, newton's cradle, opensudoku, wordsearch, replica island, robotfindskitten, netwalk, web wars, sokoban, etc | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | GunArm: and in IRreco there's a huge online database with predefined control skins, if that doesn't have anything for you - well what can I say? | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I admit that online DB isn't exactly up to date and QA-cleaned in any way | 18:08 |
| GunArm | crashanddie, my opnion is that android has enough well developed commercial apps to make the phone ubiquitous enough to allow good opensource stuff on the side, but with the n900... maybe thats wrong because theres the ovi store, but it just never got the market penetration to get serious dev attention | 18:08 |
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| * javispedro had hoped they'd settle on Qt, which is at least sanely designed. In fact, that's what I thought they were going to do and why I thought that despite being a Gtk+ fan the Qt move was a good idea. | 18:09 | |
| javispedro | but however, first came MTF, and I died a little. Then QML. | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | it got dev attention, it didn't get market droids attention | 18:09 |
| GunArm | docscrutinizer i always heard about the skins and remote templates and stuff but I am a computer engineer and i could never figure it out in an hour of sitting | 18:09 |
| javispedro | GunArm: if your remote is not common enough that it did not have a template, well, sorry. | 18:10 |
| javispedro | on a commercial app without such heavy customization that would usually mean you don't get to use the remote at all or you get a plain skin that doesn't match the remote at all. | 18:10 |
| GunArm | dont get me wrong, i really like my n900, and am generally all about open source | 18:11 |
| javispedro | note thought that I do think that having IRTX without IRRX is the stupidest idea of all time | 18:11 |
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| javispedro | and I back then predicted this would mean any remote app would be mostly useless without learning functionality. | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | HEHEHE | 18:12 |
| * javispedro was a OmniRemote fan. | 18:12 | |
| GunArm | javispedro, i wondered about that | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | the wimpy IR LED is useless anyway | 18:13 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, why thank you :) | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: (liqbase) and it's a pity he doesn't promote it in any way whatsoever | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's mostly unknown, even to me | 18:15 |
| javispedro | he doesn't ? =) | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, not really, not for the thing it basically is | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I what I gather it basically is | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | first thing I've seen of liq was liqtorch and I thught W*T*F!?!!?! 10MB for a white LCD - now how stupid is THIS liq thing?? | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | Then again, bash on a brand new N900 takes 22MB so... | 18:18 |
| GunArm | opensource dev is based on individuals whims and hobbies, and if a device is completely dependant on that, when there arent even very many people in that environment yet to have those whims, youre destined for problems | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't matter - I created a link on desktop to http://about:blank and loughed my ass off | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I leant about what liq actually is only way later | 18:19 |
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| crashanddie | GunArm, are you an idiot? Because sometimes you sound really OK, and then at other completely thick. | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | learnt* | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | So either you're a troll, or you're really just talking out of your arse. | 18:20 |
| GunArm | im not trolling honestly | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | Debian? RedHat? LINUX?? How are those destined for problems? | 18:20 |
| javispedro | well that's assertion has been proven false numerous times | 18:21 |
| vi__ | is the first thing a TROLL would say! | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, crashy at his best | 18:21 |
| crashanddie | And they were based on individual whims and hobbies! | 18:21 |
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| javispedro | crashanddie++ | 18:21 |
| GunArm | its ok I see how i sound like a troll, it sounds like im complaining about maemo in a maemo channel but im just curious how you guys see this issue regarding open source phones | 18:21 |
| javispedro | the fact is. | 18:21 |
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| javispedro | this is not an open source phone. | 18:21 |
| crashanddie | Sure, RedHat soon became an Inc, but it doesn't take away the fact that it all started because someone, at some point, thought, "fuck this, nothing is answering my problems, I'm going to do this myself". | 18:21 |
| javispedro | so the point is rather moot. | 18:21 |
| GunArm | regarding linux, it works because the platform is so big that it already has so many developers "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS", but how many decades did it take linux to become usable be the avarage person (let alone attractive) | 18:22 |
| GunArm | big = common | 18:22 |
| * DocScrutinizer has the strange feeling like this was a week full of Fridays | 18:22 | |
| javispedro | GunArm: less than what it took for MS's OS! | 18:22 |
| crashanddie | Erhm... Less than 5-6 years? | 18:22 |
| crashanddie | I started using Linux when I was 8. That's 17 years ago. | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | youngster ;-P | 18:23 |
| GunArm | im really not against open source software, im just saying, there are pros and cons to any model, even blessed open source has some cons, which sounds like heresy in some circles | 18:23 |
| crashanddie | No, it doesn't. | 18:24 |
| crashanddie | But generalising with stupid arguments is heresy to any sane mind. | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I wish there were computers or even digital components available to mere mortals when I was 8 | 18:24 |
| crashanddie | Yes, some open source projects SUCK, because little 16yo genius dev thinks he's the bee's knees, when in fact, he doesn't understand diddly squat about project management, and how to keep his devs in check. | 18:24 |
| GunArm | you might have been a linux tinkerer in 1995 , but linux hasnt exploded toward the mainstream since ubuntu like 4 years ago | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell when I was 8 there was B&W TV | 18:25 |
| crashanddie | oh bollocks GunArm. | 18:25 |
| crashanddie | But when people with real-life experience, and honest to god dedication come to the table, open source projects fly. | 18:25 |
| GunArm | i dont disagree with that | 18:25 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: im sure there was the babbage steel banded differance engine available in your youth. | 18:25 |
| GunArm | im totally with you | 18:25 |
| crashanddie | GunArm, call your nearest local ISP, ask them when they started using Linux as their main server operating system? | 18:25 |
| crashanddie | I'll bet you one arm and a leg, it's something circa 1997. | 18:26 |
| GunArm | the issue tho is how big is the crowd currently living in the environment, from which a small fraction are good devs | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: sure, alas I already was severely into electronics at that age | 18:26 |
| GunArm | i dont doubt that, but servers at an ISP are not the same as wide acceptance from the general public, like phones | 18:26 |
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| GunArm | those ISPs had to call in consultants to set up those servers | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: and sure I had other smart mechanical calculator machines to play with :-) | 18:27 |
| crashanddie | vi__, don't forget that DocScrutinizer came to this planet before the TV was common in households. He was nearly 18 when he saw Elisabeth get married. | 18:27 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: sliderule? | 18:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer giggles | 18:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: oh yeah that sliderule also was a smart tool | 18:27 |
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| crashanddie | GunArm, so you're actually arguing that an OS that was designed to match big massive corporation-powered server OS's wasn't on-par with desktop OS's? | 18:28 |
| vi__ | I heard DocScrutinizer even ranted at turing for suggesting somthing noobish once. | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I think I bought my first electronic calculator when I was 12, for some 80 bucks | 18:29 |
| vi__ | of course it wasnt called noobish back then | 18:29 |
| vi__ | more terminalogical inexactitude | 18:29 |
| vi__ | geeze | 18:29 |
| vi__ | did it even have a square root function? | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, of course not | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | + - * / | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and = | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 18:31 |
| vi__ | no . ? | 18:31 |
| vi__ | integers only? | 18:31 |
| edheldil | ~mft | 18:32 |
| infobot | hmm... mft is Marriage and Family Therapy | 18:32 |
| vi__ | ~CDC | 18:32 |
| infobot | i guess cdc is the cult of the dead cow - see http://www.cdc.org | 18:32 |
| vi__ | o0 | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually sqrt() was the first "program" I ran on a digital device, by executing the program steps of an iterative algo manually | 18:33 |
| edheldil | sorry for interjecting ;-) | 18:33 |
| javispedro | infobot's finally gone crazy | 18:33 |
| edheldil | ~mtf | 18:33 |
| infobot | A Microsoft Tape Format reader. URL: ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/backup/mtf-0.1.src.tgz | 18:33 |
| edheldil | grr | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | on THAT digital device | 18:33 |
| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: my first computer was a paper one :/ | 18:33 |
| vi__ | it was one of the suggested honours (4th year) projects on my university course | 18:33 |
| edheldil | ~liqbase | 18:34 |
| vi__ | to write a square root function for implementation on FPGA | 18:34 |
| GunArm | crashanddie, not at all, 'on-par' requires a value system for evaluation, your value system is obviously kernel reliability etc which is good for servers, im talking about a MARKETING model to make a device ubiquitous to the mass public, for MASS ADOPTION by the dumb general public, they need userfriendlyness even if it crashes all the time, linux has always been more reliable that other OS, but recent distros in the like of ubuntu have made it so your | 18:34 |
| GunArm | grandma can use it, your grandma has to be able to use a phone to penetrate the market | 18:34 |
| crashanddie | Actually, my grandma is dead you insensitive clod. | 18:35 |
| GunArm | open source dev snowballs as more librariers are made, but it starts slower when half of them dont exist yet, and a device has a short lifecycle compared to the desktop PC platform | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1 year later I controlled the keys by relais, and had feedback to the program execution unit by decoding minus sign out of the LED multiplex signal | 18:35 |
| vi__ | I of course shunned this rather 'trival' problem and wrote an SHA-1 core in VHDL | 18:35 |
| vi__ | relais=relays | 18:35 |
| edheldil | GunArm: IMO the problem of n900 is not open source, but that Nokia dumped the platform almost as soon as it was released. n9 is abandoned even before it's releaseed | 18:35 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: o0 | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | I felt seriously sick when Maemo was cancelled | 18:36 |
| GunArm | i never even saw the n900 for sale honestly | 18:37 |
| GunArm | i got mine as a promo model from a nokia employee | 18:37 |
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| yacc | GunArm, hint, the n900 is quite useable by elder people. OTOH, when you start to add repositories, it starts to become a nice poweruser tool ;) | 18:38 |
| edheldil | as a result, there's not much of monetary incentives, and worse, there's not much of opensource merits to get either | 18:38 |
| yacc | GunArm, well, does not matter, Nokia decided to commit suicide for some shortterm cash, ... | 18:38 |
| GunArm | yeah, it does what it needs to do very well out of the box | 18:39 |
| yacc | GunArm, at least their MS decision has put them on lists titled "brands that you can expect to fail in 2012" ;) | 18:39 |
| GunArm | ms? | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | It's a shame though | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | GunArm, microsoft? | 18:40 |
| GunArm | what microsoft decision? | 18:40 |
| crashanddie | oh come on | 18:40 |
| yacc | GunArm, Windows Mobile | 18:40 |
| crashanddie | go back to your cave. | 18:40 |
| GunArm | ooohh to use microsoft on their devices | 18:40 |
| yacc | GunArm, Nokia decided to drop it's own system development and become just yet another peddler of Windows phones ;) | 18:40 |
| GunArm | right right, I thought you meant microsoft was involved with maemo | 18:41 |
| crashanddie | GunArm, elop, the new Nokia CEO, is an ex-Microsoft exec. Just after he got to power, they announced they would fulfil their promise to have at least one MeeGo handset (the N9), but that there would never be another phone using MeeGo (roughly). All other phones would use WP7. | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH ohnoes | 18:41 |
| crashanddie | yacc, its own. | 18:41 |
| crashanddie | its == possessive; it's == it is. | 18:42 |
| crashanddie | "The dog wags its tail" | 18:42 |
| crashanddie | "It's a disgrace" | 18:42 |
| yacc | Btw, Nokia started behaving nicely Microsoftish immediately, AFAIK, Intel who was their major Meego partner was informed about Nokia's withdrawal from Meego through the press ;) | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder how to teach infobot to do the crashanddie | 18:42 |
| vi__ | crashanddie: Always start sentences with a capital. | 18:43 |
| crashanddie | I did exactly that, AFAICT | 18:43 |
| yacc | Really, serious and nice behaviour :) | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | please gentlemen! | 18:43 |
| yacc | It's kind like ending a marriage via a text message ;) | 18:44 |
| GunArm | thats legal under muslim sharia law! | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | i'M nOT gOING tO wRITE cAPITALS aT bEGINNING oF sENTENCES | 18:44 |
| edheldil | yacc: is not it legal in some Arabian country? | 18:44 |
| GunArm | as long as the message is clear and cannot be misinterpreted | 18:44 |
| yacc | GunArm, it's not about legal, it's about behaviour :) | 18:45 |
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| GunArm | probably lol, i just read that on a think about sharia | 18:45 |
| GunArm | thing | 18:45 |
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| GunArm | but isnt microsoft super bed buddies with intel? | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | not recently ;-D | 18:46 |
| crashanddie | yacc, is it now? I thought it required three steps? Public announcement, reconciliation, two witnesses validate the waiting period? | 18:46 |
| crashanddie | sorry, that was for GunArm. | 18:46 |
| javispedro | Intel hates MS these days | 18:47 |
| GunArm | crashanddie the sharia thing? | 18:47 |
| javispedro | probably the entire reasoning for Meego's existence. | 18:47 |
| javispedro | s/for/behind | 18:47 |
| GunArm | crashanddie i have no idea, its random trivia i have no depth of understanding | 18:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer declares sharia a ban'able subject on this channel | 18:47 | |
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| GunArm | lol | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if crashanddie would revert that | 18:48 |
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| crashanddie | oh, right, I'm an op here. | 18:48 |
| crashanddie | Err | 18:48 |
| crashanddie | Well, banning subjects is about as smart as banning fruit. | 18:48 |
| GunArm | or banning the people who eat the fruit | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | "You're not allowed to have banana here!" "Oh, but I was told this was an orange!" | 18:49 |
| GunArm | from the garden of eden | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | friday, definitely | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | knew it | 18:49 |
| vi__ | can we ban talking snakes? | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | we could ban weapons, though. | 18:49 |
| * javispedro thinks this conversation isn't going anywhere | 18:49 | |
| crashanddie | javispedro, it's GOING STRAIGHT TO THE LOGS! | 18:49 |
| javispedro | touché. | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | terrible thought | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe we can disable logs by a cronjob on Fryday afternoon - but waut, it's not Friday today, is it? | 18:50 |
| crashanddie | no | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/waut/wait/ | 18:51 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: maybe we can disable logs by a cronjob on Fryday afternoon - but wait, it's not Friday today, is it? | 18:51 |
| crashanddie | Fryday? | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 18:51 |
| crashanddie | Is that like the day where we celebrate Stephen Fry? | 18:51 |
| crashanddie | With useless, yet Quite Interesting trivia? | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, Fry of Futurama ;-P | 18:51 |
| crashanddie | NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO | 18:51 |
| crashanddie | NOT A GINGER | 18:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders finally getting the planned afk-time sheduled for - like - 4h ago | 18:52 | |
| GunArm | hah i dont think hes supposed to be ginger | 18:53 |
| GunArm | hes based on james dean from rebel without a cause | 18:53 |
| GunArm | red jacket, white shirt and jeans + pompador... | 18:53 |
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| vi__ | so i purchased a BRAND NEW N900 | 18:55 |
| vi__ | £220 | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | now for sth completely OffTopic: I noticed similar misbehaviour of indicator LED as attributed to sun/temp least few days here, when I tested some patterns in LED pattern editor. Reboot fixed it | 18:56 |
| GunArm | hmm friday is based on the germanic love goddess | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Fraya | 18:57 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: woo, wikipedia. | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah! | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I *am* a germaniac | 18:58 |
| vi__ | is it possible to merge Mydocs and /opt? | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: why? how? | 18:58 |
| javispedro | obviously you'll lose Mass storage mode. | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | MyDocs is VFAT | 18:59 |
| javispedro | Maemo should use LVM like Palm ;) | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | gimme more abstraction levels! MOAR!! | 18:59 |
| vi__ | convert mydocs to ext3 | 18:59 |
| * javispedro puts CS glasses and looks at DocScrutinizer | 19:00 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders idly looking into LED pattern editor's source to investigate what nasty things this does when you hit the "test" button | 19:01 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | prolly just access LP5523 sysnodes directly, not at all caring about concurrent access from mce | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I bet... | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | anybody joining the bet? | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | naaah you're cheating | 19:03 |
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| javispedro | I bet it uses MCE. | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | not for test though | 19:04 |
| javispedro | why not | 19:04 |
| javispedro | it'll probably be around 90% of the code of such an application to implement test by banging the sysnodes directly. | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | or I missed sth about how mce can get convinced to read in a changed mce.ini | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: not really as patterns in mce.ini are 1:1 feedable to engine pattern sysnodes | 19:05 |
| javispedro | ah. | 19:07 |
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| javispedro | hah | 21:02 |
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| javispedro | rumour is out HP might spin off palm again, along with its pc business =) | 21:02 |
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| Venemo | javispedro, heh | 21:04 |
| javispedro | seemingly my favourite backup platform is going to enjoy something similar to our own elopcalypse ... | 21:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, that's one giant waste of money. | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | What were they thinking? | 21:08 |
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| javispedro | seems that they are going to buy a software company and call it a day with devices | 21:10 |
| javispedro | the rumor says it'll be announced today, so we'll know soon. | 21:11 |
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| Jaffa | @msg GAN900 Yay, *finally* got a response on #jaffa4tsg. Short version: thanks, but no thanks. Slightly longer version: we don't think the TSG is anything but an insurance policy any more. | 21:37 |
| Jaffa | Damned N950 keyboard. s/@/\// | 21:37 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa: fear from making that typo makes me usually not use /msg ;) | 21:53 |
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| gnutoo | hi, does the mamemo kenrel uses an initrd somewhere? | 22:04 |
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| gnutoo | or an initramfs | 22:04 |
| NIN101 | no | 22:05 |
| NIN101 | it mounts the rootfs directly without the help of an initrd or something, executes the script /sbin/preinit which does "something" and finally runs init. | 22:07 |
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| onen|openBmap | hi | 22:09 |
| onen|openBmap | tried to connect my n900 through car charger, but it does not charge. Has anyone a clue about this? | 22:10 |
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| onen|openBmap | when using the same usb cable (but without the car plug adapter) on my laptop, the phone charges just fine | 22:10 |
| gnutoo | ok | 22:11 |
| gnutoo | hmmmm | 22:11 |
| gnutoo | *ATGS seem passed correctly with kexecboot | 22:11 |
| onen|openBmap | same car adapter, with mini usb cable worked fine with my former phone... | 22:11 |
| gnutoo | *no initramfs/initrd | 22:11 |
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| NIN101 | onen|openBmap: *IIRC* this is an known issue, but I am not familiar with the details. | 22:12 |
| onen|openBmap | NIN101: I have been thinking that the n900 might be peeky about current/voltage it detects... | 22:12 |
| onen|openBmap | NIN101: less tolerance than my former phone | 22:13 |
| gnutoo | onen|openBmap: it's because of USB | 22:13 |
| gnutoo | what's your car charger? | 22:13 |
| onen|openBmap | hi gnutoo | 22:13 |
| gnutoo | hi | 22:13 |
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| gnutoo | basically if it's not a n900 official charger you have that: | 22:14 |
| onen|openBmap | well not sure, what details do you need? it is a kind of adapter that plug into a slot, which used to be designed for cigarette lightner. The other side regular usb, as on a computer | 22:14 |
| gnutoo | to get more than 100 mA there is the need of a negotiation between the phone and the usb charger | 22:15 |
| gnutoo | which doesn't happen | 22:15 |
| gnutoo | because it's a dumb charger | 22:15 |
| gnutoo | so the old phone may consume less than 100mA | 22:15 |
| gnutoo | and the n900 may consume more..... | 22:15 |
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| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: well I am quite impressed by myself, as my intuition was right! (n900 being to picky (based on stories about the battery charging handling which is weird on n900 for what I have understood)) | 22:16 |
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| * onen|openBmap shines of self satisfaction | 22:16 | |
| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: I understand. thanks for the explaination | 22:17 |
| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: you basically saved my quite some time ;-) | 22:17 |
| gnutoo | battery charging is weired, that's true however n900 is not the only phone that consume more than 100mA | 22:17 |
| gnutoo | battery charging is done in userspace | 22:17 |
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| gnutoo | I don't remember the exact details on how the charger chip works | 22:17 |
| onen|openBmap | do you know if adapter exists for car? I guess so, right? | 22:17 |
| gnutoo | but I think it's B | 22:18 |
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| gnutoo | oops | 22:18 |
| gnutoo | but I think it's BME who trigger the charge that is actually done by the i2c charging chip | 22:18 |
| gnutoo | like a watchdog | 22:19 |
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| gnutoo | I must re-read the free charging scripts.... | 22:19 |
| gnutoo | basically or you negociate 500mA, you get 100mAm however.... | 22:20 |
| onen|openBmap | so I have to replace my car adapter, to something able to deliver more than 100mA. Does this exist? | 22:20 |
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| gnutoo | there is a third way, you add a resistor in the charger like an official car charger and detect that | 22:20 |
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| gnutoo | look at official n900 chargers if that exist | 22:20 |
| gnutoo | else there is an easy eay | 22:21 |
| gnutoo | *way | 22:21 |
| gnutoo | get a 12V->220v AC adapter | 22:21 |
| gnutoo | and put your n900 stock charger in the AC adapter plug | 22:21 |
| gnutoo | however that can be noisy as there is often a fan | 22:21 |
| onen|openBmap | IIRC the wall charger of n900 delivers 1200mA, while the one of my former phone delivers 1000mA. All the pieces of the puzzle fits ;-) | 22:22 |
| gnutoo | yes there is a resistor or something like that in the charger | 22:22 |
| gnutoo | it's detected by the phone | 22:22 |
| gnutoo | I think it's in the kenrel | 22:23 |
| gnutoo | so it know it can take more than 100mA | 22:23 |
| gnutoo | and it does | 22:23 |
| onen|openBmap | and about the universal charger for mobile phone which has been decided (at least in Europe for what I know), will it work with n900? | 22:24 |
| gnutoo | hmmm I don't know that part enough.... | 22:24 |
| gnutoo | maybe there is an universal resistor value, no idea.... | 22:25 |
| gnutoo | maybe wikipedia has the answer at the USB article tough | 22:25 |
| gnutoo | look at micro-usb | 22:25 |
| onen|openBmap | I am currently reading it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_External_Power_Supply | 22:26 |
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| gnutoo | ok | 22:28 |
| gnutoo | my internet is slow as hell..... | 22:28 |
| gnutoo | so charging a webpage may fail because of timeout | 22:29 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, special. | 22:32 |
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| b4byh4ck | n900? | 22:37 |
| ErwinJunge | b4byh4ck: yes please | 22:38 |
| ErwinJunge | Should I e-mail you my address? | 22:38 |
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| b4byh4ck | am new here | 22:38 |
| ErwinJunge | np, just seemed like the funniest answer :) | 22:39 |
| ErwinJunge | What's your actual question? | 22:39 |
| b4byh4ck | ahaha,i was so surprised when i saw the maemo room,,,so i asked to confirm that it deals with n900 too | 22:40 |
| ErwinJunge | Yup | 22:41 |
| b4byh4ck | nice | 22:41 |
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| gnutoo | hmmm | 22:44 |
| gnutoo | I kexec the power kenrel | 22:44 |
| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: ok I found a PDF where details are explained of what has been chosen by EU. | 22:44 |
| gnutoo | and then, as user reported it, I've some issues such as the camera not working: | 22:44 |
| gnutoo | the camera slider isn't detected well: | 22:45 |
| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: and I might have found the info: | 22:45 |
| gnutoo | you havo try 3 times to get it work | 22:45 |
| gnutoo | ok | 22:45 |
| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: As per: USB Battery Charging Specification, Revision 1.1 (BC 1.1), Section 4.1 | 22:45 |
| onen|openBmap | Charging Port. EPS shall meet the USB-IF Charging Port Test Requirements for a | 22:45 |
| onen|openBmap | Dedicated Charging Port. Top level requirements listed below: | 22:45 |
| onen|openBmap | The EPS shall short the D+ and D- lines with a resistance not greater | 22:46 |
| onen|openBmap | than 200 ohms. | 22:46 |
| onen|openBmap | than 200 ohms. | 22:46 |
| onen|openBmap | The resistance between the D+ or D- lines of the EPS and either Vbus | 22:46 |
| onen|openBmap | or Gnd shall be greater than 2 MOhms. | 22:46 |
| onen|openBmap | The capacitance between the D+ or D- lines of the EPS and either | 22:46 |
| onen|openBmap | Vbus or Gnd shall be less than 1nF. | 22:46 |
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| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: so this looks like what you were talking, a resistance which allows detection of the charger | 22:47 |
| onen|openBmap | gnutoo: anyway, we'll see. Thanks again for your help. | 22:47 |
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| gnutoo | ok | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | onen|openBmap: !!!! :-D | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | onen|openBmap: looong time no see | 22:49 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: what's up doc? | 22:50 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: ;-) | 22:50 |
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| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: Halli Hallo! | 22:50 |
| gnutoo | indeed.... | 22:50 |
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| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: is the talk about details of usb charging of n900 which triggered detection of the conversation? You are quite versed in this topic IIRC? ;-) | 22:50 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: well finally got a n900 | 22:51 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: and discovering it | 22:51 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: whith good, and less good surprises ;-) | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | no. and yes. and: it's dirt simple: short D+ with D- | 22:51 |
| gnutoo | ok | 22:52 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: spent the whole evening of yesterday trying to find a working task or list manager. but either it does not provide what I need, or it is buggy | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | no 200R, no 2M2 | 22:52 |
| gnutoo | about kexecboot, does someone have an idea? | 22:53 |
| gnutoo | it breaks a lot of stuff | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | and alas I'm late for a date with gf, so hope to see you around later | 22:53 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: ok thanks see you later then | 22:53 |
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| gnutoo | see you later | 22:53 |
| onen|openBmap | DocScrutinizer: was it for my issue the short D+ with D- ? | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | less than 200R == short it | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ciao | 22:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if HP realizes the contributor base they missed out on being handed by Nokia. | 23:05 |
| El_Angelo | they are morons | 23:05 |
| El_Angelo | that was the one OS is was looking at to replace my n900 | 23:06 |
| rly | What is the fastest way to call someone on the n900? | 23:06 |
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| rly | I.e., someone who is not yet in the contacts list. | 23:07 |
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| flux | maybe push power button, choose phone | 23:07 |
| mece | rip webos | 23:07 |
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| rly | flux: choose phone? | 23:08 |
| flux | well, you needed to write webos apps in javascript, right? | 23:08 |
| flux | rly, pressing power button should pop up a menu | 23:08 |
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| flux | and I'm pretty sure there Phone in that menu | 23:08 |
| El_Angelo | flux there is/was a native API as well | 23:09 |
| mece | flux, not really. | 23:09 |
| mece | exactly | 23:09 |
| El_Angelo | we're doomed | 23:09 |
| flux | well, that at least makes it sound less dumb :) | 23:09 |
| El_Angelo | no maemo | 23:09 |
| El_Angelo | no meego | 23:09 |
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| El_Angelo | no webos | 23:10 |
| rly | flux: that does not happen here. | 23:10 |
| flux | rly, nothing happens from pressing power button? (don't hold it, you'll turn off the phone) | 23:10 |
| rly | flux: by power button you mean the button which powers off the device after 5 seconds or so? | 23:10 |
| flux | rly, yes | 23:10 |
| rly | flux: no, nothing happens. | 23:10 |
| El_Angelo | fun | 23:10 |
| flux | the only button in addition to camera button | 23:10 |
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| flux | rly, well, something should :) | 23:10 |
| rly | flux: you have to press it 'completely'. | 23:11 |
| flux | it can also be pressed twice in sequence to lock the screen | 23:11 |
| rly | flux: not iw worked. | 23:11 |
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| flux | rly, the button doesn't have half-pressed state | 23:11 |
| rly | flux: yes, I understand, but I thought I pressed it, but obviously I didn't; the machine is always right of course ;) | 23:11 |
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| peterbjornx | Hello every1 | 23:47 |
| peterbjornx | what causes the MyDocs partition to behave as "read-only" while mounted rw | 23:48 |
| Sicelo | corruption, etc... afaik N900 FS easily gets corrupt | 23:49 |
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| peterbjornx | well i pulled the battery before cause it froze | 23:49 |
| peterbjornx | but, FAT32 shouldnt RO when corrupted | 23:50 |
| peterbjornx | ive had enough disk crashes to know that | 23:50 |
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| Sicelo | if no one helps u out soon, try to check the logs... this has been discussed here before, but i'm too noob to recall :p | 23:52 |
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