IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-08-19

*** fiferboy has quit IRC		00:00
*** mc_teo` has quit IRC		00:04
*** baraujo has quit IRC		00:05
*** florian has joined #maemo		00:05
*** lizardo has quit IRC		00:07
javispedro	ah, many lines reminiscent of the elopcalypse.	00:13
javispedro	"we can also find HP execs in parking lots and beat them with sticks until they agree to do what we want"	00:13
* SpeedEvil idly wonders about a meego dev program.		00:14
* javispedro shudders at the idea that now the only alternate acceptable platform is android		00:14
SpeedEvil	'take this, and do anything with it! Quickly! Please!	00:14
SpeedEvil	Indeed.	00:14
SpeedEvil	Large players exiting the market is a terrible thing.	00:15
javispedro	I might be crazy, but if in two years I have to choose between Android and Apple, I would choose Apple.	00:15
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		00:16
SpeedEvil	On what grounds?	00:16
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, me too.	00:16
GeneralAntilles	It being less shit.	00:16
javispedro	so let's hope tomorrow the tide brings something new the same the tide today took away another platform.	00:16
javispedro	SpeedEvil: mostly same as GeneralAntilles; and I like Apple's arch from a designer PoV more than Android's.	00:17
javispedro	s/designer/architect ;)	00:17
GeneralAntilles	Android can't even run smoothly on a dual-1GHz Cortex-A9 with 1GB of RAM.	00:17
GeneralAntilles	Usability wise it's shit, too.	00:19
nid0	well, hopefully in 2 years ms's offering will be a viable third choice at least	00:19
javispedro	It is a clusterfsck. It is more similar to old PalmOS or RIM's stuff than a new mobile platform.	00:19
GeneralAntilles	nid0, good luck with that.	00:19
javispedro	hah!	00:19
* ShadowJK wonders if google's "own" phones run/ran it smooth		00:19
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, Nexus One didn't.	00:19
GeneralAntilles	Android is just plain shityt.	00:19
javispedro	Nokia/HP might abandon lesser-used platforms,	00:20
javispedro	but microsoft does the opposite	00:20
nid0	I dont see the problem, their ui's infinitely nicer than android and far smoother, and if mango's any indication theyre piling the features on	00:20
javispedro	if WP7 ever reaches spot#1, they will say their job is done and abandon it.	00:20
javispedro	see IE6, see WinMo 6.5	00:20
javispedro	and what will happen next is that progress in the area is slowed down by a decade until the next player comes.	00:20
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		00:21
ShadowJK	so they should have called it IE6 build 5678 instead of IE9? :)	00:21
DocScrutinizer	meh, what's that fuss about left over platforms? Aren't we "the community", don't we do our own platform?	00:21
nid0	well, ie6 was job done, there was no value to them in producing the next version of a free browser that brings them no direct income and had no competition	00:21
nid0	whereas wp7 does and has	00:21
javispedro	nid0: they did with wm6	00:21
DocScrutinizer	it's actually just about vendor support for a particular OS on a particular HW	00:21
javispedro	nid0: once they beat palm, they stopped right in the tracks.	00:21
jacekowski	javispedro: which platform?	00:22
*** jhb has joined #maemo		00:22
javispedro	jacekowski: you mean which platform left us today? http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/18/hp-will-discontinue-operations-for-webos-devices/	00:22
jacekowski	expected	00:22
GeneralAntilles	Why would you choose WP7 over iOS?	00:23
jacekowski	i'm surprised that it took them so long	00:23
jacekowski	GeneralAntilles: because it's not unix based	00:23
jacekowski	and over years i got fed up with nix based systems more and more and mroe	00:23
*** choppa has quit IRC		00:23
DocScrutinizer	honestly debian FTW	00:23
ShadowJK	iOS is more Step...	00:24
javispedro	jacekowski: wince is slightly more unixy than win32	00:24
javispedro	for a start, they expose devices as files and have a single filesystem tree.	00:24
DocScrutinizer	maybe even ubuntu	00:24
ShadowJK	MacOS is more NextStep than Unix based :/	00:24
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		00:25
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: as if NeXTStep was no *nix	00:26
jacekowski	javispedro: win32 exposes devices as files	00:27
DocScrutinizer	ok it has a mach microkernel, and a few BSD remnants	00:27
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: *nix != Unix	00:27
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		00:27
javispedro	jacekowski: winnt, not win32.	00:27
*** C-S-B has quit IRC		00:27
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: GNU is Not Unix	00:27
ShadowJK	Lots of things are files in windows, you just can't list them with 'dir' :-)	00:27
luke-jr	neither is NeXT	00:27
javispedro	winnt also technically has a single filesystem tree. but all of win32 is based around drive letters.	00:28
javispedro	which do not exist at all in wince since they were allowed to break API.	00:28
ShadowJK	let's port Plan9 to N900	00:28
DocScrutinizer	HURD	00:29
* javispedro boots the HURD in a VM		00:29
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC		00:29
* javispedro slightly laughs		00:29
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: and then run DukeNukem4ever on it	00:29
javispedro	elopcalypse ----> "but Meego is NOT yet dead there's still Intel!"	00:30
javispedro	weboscalypse --> "but webOS is NOT yet dead there's still $RANDOM_HOPEFULLY_FUTURE_LICENSEE"	00:30
nid0	maybe grid os will be the next big thing	00:31
jacekowski	javispedro: maybe it's because linux on phone is a disaster	00:31
DocScrutinizer	I have to reinterate it: seems this week started with a Friday and was all Fridays since.	00:31
javispedro	jacekowski: ask those Google guys	00:31
jacekowski	and android only succeded because it was hiding that fact	00:31
javispedro	jacekowski: they seem to be doing rather well seemingly.	00:31
* DocScrutinizer just wonders if that'S just him or actually the mood and topics in this chan		00:31
javispedro	jacekowski: so you are saying gnu glibc on a phone is a disaster?	00:31
jacekowski	javispedro: but android isn't really your typical linux	00:31
javispedro	what's exactly the disaster there?	00:32
javispedro	s/there/then/	00:32
infobot	javispedro meant: what's exactly the disaster then?	00:32
jacekowski	ask normal users	00:32
jacekowski	somehow palm pre didn't sell as good as android phones	00:32
ShadowJK	I remember cursing at how slow gtk was drawing xchat on my PC, and shaking my head at those lunatics that wanted to run linux on phones. Then I got the N810 with Linuc+GTK, and it was about 5 times more responsive than my Symbian cellphone :-)	00:32
nid0	well, the palm pre had the distinct disadvantage that the actual phone was shit	00:33
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: android is definitely NOT linux, esp wrt to embedded-relating properties	00:33
jacekowski	ShadowJK: i had ngage	00:33
jacekowski	ShadowJK: and it was bloody fast	00:33
jacekowski	ShadowJK: and i had games for it	00:33
jacekowski	and everything	00:33
javispedro	and it didn't sell.	00:34
jacekowski	price	00:34
jacekowski	i worked for 2 months at mcdonalds to buy it	00:34
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		00:34
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		00:34
* Sicelo still has ngage :P		00:34
javispedro	it was probably cheaper than any of the phones that are sold today?	00:34
jacekowski	no	00:34
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo		00:35
nid0	looks also didnt help it.	00:35
javispedro	I remember once considering getting it for 250€	00:35
javispedro	so it was _way_ cheaper.	00:35
DocScrutinizer	palm pre has an all shitty formfactor	00:35
DocScrutinizer	too large, too small screen and too tiny kbd	00:35
javispedro	still better than N9's ;)	00:36
DocScrutinizer	WUT?	00:36
DocScrutinizer	aaah	00:36
jacekowski	i'll buy WP7 version of N9	00:36
DocScrutinizer	yeah	00:36
javispedro	I liked Pre3's form f better than N9's. But for me N810 was best.	00:36
* ShadowJK mostly wants something that he can do stuff with easily, and can access email		00:37
javispedro	jacekowski: hope you already know C#	00:37
ShadowJK	N900 was first phone that could do that :P	00:37
DocScrutinizer	I think all the old nerds agreed on that from N900's birth on	00:37
nid0	I still have my e90 for that <3	00:37
jacekowski	javispedro: i do	00:37
jacekowski	javispedro: better than jav	00:37
jacekowski	java*	00:37
ShadowJK	though "do stuff" was marginally possible on symbian too after it got python	00:37
DocScrutinizer	...that N900 was even better if it had kept N810's formfactor	00:37
ShadowJK	I thought Win7M was silverlight	00:38
javispedro	"do stuff" was technically possible even on old PalmOS.	00:38
javispedro	how painless it is, that's another story.	00:38
*** GunArm has quit IRC		00:38
DocScrutinizer	PalmOS was toxic architecture	00:39
ShadowJK	Well, the only way to do streaming audio was to dowmload a chunk, save as mp3, play back mp3 while downloading next file. There were gaps :P	00:39
javispedro	it was 1990's.	00:39
javispedro	same way android is 2000's.	00:39
DocScrutinizer	still	00:39
javispedro	will all the java and memory conserving crap.	00:40
javispedro	(and it still does it rather badly)	00:40
ShadowJK	then nokia made some new secret api to actually stream audio, and a net radio app, which only worked on a small subset of symbian, hooray :/	00:40
javispedro	the only way to make background network activity on the PalmOS was to fake an audio stream so that your app was periodically called for new audio, so ;)	00:41
* ShadowJK can't wait to see how smoothly excel in silverlight runs ;D		00:43
javispedro	heh, ari posted already	00:43
javispedro	s/posted/tweeted	00:43
*** luke-jr\|otg has quit IRC		00:44
*** jhb has quit IRC		00:44
GeneralAntilles	lol http://twitter.com/#!/outlawarth/status/104307594197348353	00:44
javispedro	fakeselop was already saying he has "anti-midas" touch ;P first maemo then meego then webos ;)	00:45
GeneralAntilles	Being familiar with Ari's past endeavors, I'm going to have to agree.	00:45
*** luke-jr has quit IRC		00:45
*** luke-jr_ has joined #maemo		00:45
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo		00:46
*** luke-jr\|otg has joined #maemo		00:46
*** licensed has joined #maemo		00:47
*** licensed has joined #maemo		00:47
javispedro	it's fun that the world leading PC manufacturer tried to get rid of its PC business because of "low profits".	00:48
* javispedro now thinks the world is rather doomed.		00:48
*** geaaru_ has joined #maemo		00:48
*** jhb has joined #maemo		00:48
jacekowski	well, all home electronics is cheap	00:48
jacekowski	so profit margins are now much lower	00:48
jacekowski	but i don't understand why would you get rid of something that makes you profit	00:48
ShadowJK	I have a HP laptop someone asked me to fix. It's shaped like a brick, weighs like a brick, has the aesthetics of a brick. It seems full of random proprietary extension ports nobody will/would ever use :-)	00:50
javispedro	jacekowski: downward trend.	00:50
* DocScrutinizer sets up an autokicker on regex "twitter.com/#!/"		00:50
ShadowJK	no wonder they arent making money	00:50
*** geaaru has quit IRC		00:50
javispedro	ShadowJK: brick=cheap. sell many=profit. but they aren't making money for some reason.	00:50
nid0	personally, the only HP kit I have is a fairly awesome all-in-one printer that cost less to buy new than the replacement 4 ink cartridges it takes	00:50
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, hey, I've got seniority.	00:50
DocScrutinizer	:-P	00:50
*** wazd has quit IRC		00:51
DocScrutinizer	free thoughts! twitter is crap!	00:51
fizzie	The N-Gage, when I got one, was the absolutely cheapest thing that ran Symbian they had. I think it was ~130 eur, and came bundled with some Tony Hawk game + an RC helicopter. But admittedly this was quite late, after it had turned out to be the flop.	00:51
ShadowJK	javispedro, custom electronics is probably more expensive than having some idiot make a plastic case for it ;-)	00:51
DocScrutinizer	I could ask tim riker to teach infobot to auto-resolve twiter.com URLs and spit out the content	00:52
DocScrutinizer	similar to ~wiki	00:52
jacekowski	fizzie: that was QD you're talking about	00:52
fizzie	No, it wasn't.	00:52
ShadowJK	the "NGAGE App" ran quite smoothly on my otherwise slughish symbian, but it was focus stealing captive fullscreen :/	00:52
jacekowski	QD had rc helicopter bundled	00:53
DocScrutinizer	~twitter	00:53
infobot	well, twitter is a popular microblogging site	00:53
DocScrutinizer	blarg!	00:53
DocScrutinizer	~useless	00:53
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(		00:53
DocScrutinizer	~twitter http://twitter.com/#!/outlawarth/status/104307594197348353	00:53
fizzie	jacekowski: Well, I can quite easily tell the original and the QD apart, and what I have here isn't QD. But the seller (verkkokauppa.com) kept bundling those 'copters with just about everything.	00:53
ShadowJK	I remember considering ngage too, but decided that typing stuff on its keyboard would be too slow :/	00:55
*** wazd has joined #maemo		00:55
DocScrutinizer	microblogging - nice. Actually usually the URL is longer than the relevant info bits contained in the 500kB download when you click on it	00:55
javispedro	NGage has been the only Symbian phone I've _EVER_ considered.	00:55
javispedro	which is why I'm quite sure it was less than 250€	00:55
javispedro	quite sure it was 200€ but I'll toss in the 50€ for safety margin.	00:55
*** rcg has quit IRC		00:56
DocScrutinizer	and I'd even bet twitter friggin data junk you download with every click is infested by malware	00:57
* ShadowJK bought a Siemens CF-62 for 250. It had 600-ish K ram for java2 ME :D the cpu was extremely slow, and like it succumbed to siemens quality issue death pretty fast :/		00:57
javispedro	I also had siemens	00:57
javispedro	oh, I think their mobile division died too?	00:58
*** lardman has quit IRC		00:58
javispedro	I should add it to the list.	00:58
javispedro	a CX75 was the last one I had iirc.	00:58
ShadowJK	iirc LG bought it	00:58
DocScrutinizer	meh, once I had a c-10 iirc	00:59
DocScrutinizer	sucked	00:59
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		00:59
*** Primes has joined #maemo		00:59
*** jhb has quit IRC		00:59
DocScrutinizer	then I got me a Nokia 6210 which I had like 10 years	01:00
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo		01:00
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC		01:00
ShadowJK	back when nokia build quality was good :P	01:00
*** ced117 has quit IRC		01:00
DocScrutinizer	yeah	01:00
Primes	hello I have a nokia N900 running maemo 5 PR1.3. My phone is not locked to a network. I'd like to know how to do manual network selection. I heard it was under settings > manual network selection but I don't see that	01:01
DocScrutinizer	and guess what, I used same battery all those years	01:01
* javispedro never bought Nokia before the N810 =)		01:01
Primes	I have an O2 sim from UK, and when visiting france it selected roaming onto orange-france	01:01
DocScrutinizer	and I bet the 6210 had bme as well X-P	01:01
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		01:01
javispedro	Primes: Settings -> Phone	01:02
ShadowJK	Primes, settings - phone	01:02
javispedro	d'oh!	01:02
nid0	settings > phone > network selection	01:02
Primes	still had a nokia 8310 since 9 years with original battery	01:02
DocScrutinizer	LOL	01:02
DocScrutinizer	allow data roaming, allow roaming	01:02
DocScrutinizer	or better: disallow	01:03
nid0	i've still got my like 13 year old 3210 somewhere	01:03
DocScrutinizer	or select "manual network selection"	01:03
* javispedro cries		01:03
Primes	Ah ok, thanks, after scrolling down, I found those settings. Great	01:03
*** wazd has quit IRC		01:03
javispedro	webOS had way larger marketshare than Meego, and a CEO that wasn't a Microsoft trojan horse, and despite that got the axe.	01:03
ShadowJK	my 3210 underclocked itself. Then I borrowed its battery for my discman, and the battery got a bit angry :\|	01:03
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		01:04
wmarone	javispedro: he could be a trojan of a different kind	01:04
*** jhb has joined #maemo		01:04
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo		01:05
*** rm_work has quit IRC		01:06
* javispedro 's optimism largely ran off for the night.		01:06
nid0	hes clearly a macromedia trojan really, maybe its all part of his diabolical plan to bring coldfusion to the masses	01:06
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		01:07
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		01:07
DocScrutinizer	I never really looked into it, so: webos ever been meant to be anything beyond sth like err.. e.g. bada?	01:07
*** jhb has quit IRC		01:08
*** jhb has joined #maemo		01:08
javispedro	why do you think bada is not mean to be something beyond $INSERT_RANDOM_OTHER_PLATFORM?	01:09
*** eijk has quit IRC		01:09
Primes	trojan or not, some decisions coming out of nokia seem crazy. eg call yourself a burning platform, say your main OS is dead. Announce totally new product before availability, announce without ship for a year. Go with an OS that your rivals have not been able to succeed with. Make a new phone and discourage selling it in some countries.	01:09
DocScrutinizer	bada, according to raster, is a hickup, and according to what I read about it is a closed proprietary OS with a free SDK	01:10
Primes	And that's without mentioning change around all the top jobs, lose some best people and sack your developers, not to mention alienate the open source community	01:10
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo		01:10
*** vivijim has quit IRC		01:10
*** jhb has quit IRC		01:11
* DocScrutinizer just had a daydream: Nokia grows a brain and restarts another production run of N900i, just with better SoC/POP (and some very clever rework for a thruhole USB)		01:12
nid0	and, dear god, a decent keyboard	01:12
DocScrutinizer	no way	01:12
Primes	how about a nokia n950 with NFC, with replaceable battery, with a full size sim slot, into retail	01:13
DocScrutinizer	the whole point being they already got everything for that enterprise, already done, to the FCC even	01:13
Primes	if you want developers to write NFC apps, giving them a dev phone without NFC ..... doing something wrong	01:13
Primes	USB2GO ie host and slave modes will also help	01:14
lupine_85	why do people have this obsession with NFC?	01:14
lupine_85	it's bad and wrong and evil	01:14
DocScrutinizer	Primes: N950 HAS "full size" SIM	01:14
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		01:14
nid0	whats the problem with nfc	01:14
*** jhb has joined #maemo		01:14
Primes	N9 has cut down I guess I made assumption they were same	01:14
DocScrutinizer	Primes: or did you talk about credit card sized SIM?	01:14
lupine_85	it's neither as useful as bluetooth nor as simple as RFID	01:14
lupine_85	both of which are pretty flawed systems themselves	01:15
Primes	Usually you get a credit card size and have to pop it out for a standard size sim. That's useful to swap between phones, as hackers will do	01:15
*** c2p has joined #maemo		01:15
Primes	once you cut them, it's less useful expect to swap with an iphone	01:15
SpeedEvil	Top tip.	01:15
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		01:16
SpeedEvil	If you have a credit-card with a micro-SIM in, you can - with a chisel - make it into a standard SIM.	01:16
lupine_85	well, it's just form factor	01:16
DocScrutinizer	NEVER insert microsim with adapter to N950?	01:16
Primes	both bluetooth and rfid had security issues. But the payments industry seems to be adopting NFC. I want to be able to pay stuff using my smartphone	01:16
lupine_85	i'm sure you can get µsim->sim adapters	01:16
SpeedEvil	And yes - that too	01:16
lupine_85	much like microsd->sd adapters	01:16
SpeedEvil	never ever use a microsim adaptor in n950	01:16
Primes	I don't have a N950 to try it with	01:16
lupine_85	I wouldn't know, not having one :)	01:16
lupine_85	any particular reason?	01:16
SpeedEvil	Works fine for n900 though.	01:16
SpeedEvil	lupine_85: It breaks the SIM slot.	01:17
lupine_85	ouch	01:17
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		01:17
lupine_85	engineering fail	01:17
SpeedEvil	As the contacts get caught in the gap	01:17
Primes	really? is that all adaptors or just some??	01:17
SpeedEvil	At least one	01:17
DocScrutinizer	lupine_85: not really	01:17
lupine_85	still, it was a development phone	01:17
SpeedEvil	Specification fail.	01:17
SpeedEvil	Not so much engineering	01:17
lupine_85	can't expect too much of it	01:17
Primes	maybe it's designed that way so you're holding it wrong	01:17
*** zap has quit IRC		01:17
*** thomastp has joined #maemo		01:18
nid0	I dont understand why people pay for these adaptors, are places other than the uk that stingy with sims that you cant walk into your nearest network's shop and get one the right size?	01:18
Primes	Ideally I'd like a phone with 2 sim slots like some asian ones	01:18
DocScrutinizer	nid0: you can, but not with same contract usually	01:18
nid0	:\	01:18
SpeedEvil	Even some nokia asian ones now	01:18
*** ErwinJunge has quit IRC		01:18
nid0	lame networks	01:18
*** OkropNick has quit IRC		01:19
Primes	but it's not quick to port a nice old 2G number from my business card onto their new "giveaway" sims	01:19
DocScrutinizer	nid0: prepaid aka PAYG never actually come as twin SIM	01:19
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: closed OS with free SDK: isn't that the definition of Maemo and Meego also ;)	01:19
DocScrutinizer	so your PAYG number is locked to one SIM formfactor	01:20
Primes	but 2 sims ie 2 networks have advantageous tariff eg international	01:20
DocScrutinizer	you can swap formfactor and keep number, but it costs and is irreversible	01:20
Primes	Using one of those choppers you can make a full sim into a mini one. It should just work. But you can't easily glue the excess back on to get a big one again	01:20
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: not exactly	01:21
javispedro	maybe now that webos is dead it's time to make something public	01:21
DocScrutinizer	though for meego HARM I'd agree	01:21
*** Chiku01 has joined #maemo		01:21
Primes	when did webos died?	01:21
javispedro	I run webOS on my N900 =)	01:21
DocScrutinizer	today?	01:21
Primes	N900 can run maemo, meego, kubuntu, debian, windows95, nitdroid.....	01:22
nid0	well, its gone stagnant. not many people yet seem to have picked up on the fact that hp are evidently wanting to transition to software and services, and webos is software.	01:22
nid0	they just need an interested hardware vendor to use it	01:22
DocScrutinizer	nid0: my number never changed since 1999, and I still have that SIM that for sure is of the crackable generation - so IF I really bothered I probably could clone _that_one_	01:23
*** KMFDM has quit IRC		01:23
*** nmjnb has quit IRC		01:23
DocScrutinizer	nid0: you see why I'd never swap it for a microsim	01:24
*** sq-one has quit IRC		01:24
Primes	I have the old crackable 2G sim with a nice number. I don't think you can clone it into a 3G sim, too different	01:24
*** Chiku\|dc has quit IRC		01:24
DocScrutinizer	meh, the SIM itself is all the same for 3G	01:24
Primes	yes for 3G (except some minor mem capacity difference) but 2G changed into 3G different	01:25
DocScrutinizer	it actually never really changed (except for power supply voltage)	01:25
Primes	that's what I thought voltage change. so I didn't want to bust my 3G n900 by inserting a 2G sim which could draw too much current	01:26
DocScrutinizer	nah, no problem	01:26
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC		01:26
javispedro	a nokia care guy once told me the effect an older sim has on battery is noticeable	01:26
Primes	plausible	01:27
DocScrutinizer	sure	01:27
DocScrutinizer	it's a few mA	01:27
DocScrutinizer	which makes a difference like 250 vs 100h standby maybe	01:27
DocScrutinizer	maybe less	01:28
DocScrutinizer	but no hw will break on old SIM	01:28
DocScrutinizer	not even the SIM :-)	01:28
DocScrutinizer	not even new SIM in old 3.3V phones	01:28
Primes	yeah new phones won't break old sim. But I'm not confident of the opposite.	01:28
DocScrutinizer	it's just all phones support the old standard still, and the SIMs also work on old standard still	01:29
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		01:30
DocScrutinizer	Primes: afaik all SIM/phone start up at 3V3, then may negotiate lower voltage	01:30
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		01:30
SpeedEvil	Umm. Weren't _VERY_ old SIMs 5v?	01:30
DocScrutinizer	maybe, I don't actually recall	01:30
SpeedEvil	But not with something even as new as 1999	01:31
Primes	I didn't read all the gsm specs. As speedevil says some maybe were originally higher. I don't know how old my 2G sim is in that timescale, perhaps 2003	01:31
SpeedEvil	But a 5v SIM simply just won't work	01:31
DocScrutinizer	bah, no issues with those "youngsters"	01:32
SpeedEvil	no damage on either side will occu	01:32
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC		01:32
DocScrutinizer	on Freerunner we had issues with some 3G cards, but that was due to modem firmware borked on clock freq negotiation with those particular types iirc	01:33
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		01:33
DocScrutinizer	and it wasn't exactly related to "3G"	01:33
DocScrutinizer	more to the chip type in the card	01:33
DocScrutinizer	I think this was the major fix with moko9 fw	01:34
* javispedro cries some more... waaaaaaaaaaah		01:34
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: wazzup?	01:34
* javispedro looks at the n900 and n950 and REALLY hopes they last now.		01:34
Primes	right well I like 3G so I'll be trying to get the network to port my 2G number onto this 3G or a replacement 3G card. The guy in their store seemed to think it was complex either a 3 or 2 step process depending if I was signing up to contract or not	01:35
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you know 950 never will even reach maturity	01:35
Primes	it is more mature than a n900 I say	01:35
javispedro	hardly	01:35
DocScrutinizer	meh	01:35
DocScrutinizer	no way	01:35
DocScrutinizer	and the OS will never get fully adapted to 950, it's a N9 OS	01:36
javispedro	if there's not a new fw someday it'll probably be relegated quite quickly.	01:36
Primes	hardware wise it's better. The software can catch up over time	01:36
Primes	the community can adapt it more, IF there are enough of the phones around	01:36
DocScrutinizer	odds are future OS versions have _more_ N950 specific flaws rather than less	01:36
javispedro	hardware wise sadly it's a bit on the underpowered side, save for the much appreciated RAM.	01:36
fusi	usb port has just gone kaput ^^	01:36
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: the current OS has not many N950 flaws. Rather, browser crashes, fenix crashes are common.	01:37
Primes	Isn't the n950 the same 1ghz as the N9?	01:37
Arkenoi	the only two things that annoys me really much (except aegis and capacitive screen) are "smart" keyboard behavior when typing messages and notes and landscape mode glitches	01:37
Primes	does opera browser crash on it?	01:37
jacekowski	i'm still using my 10 years old simcard	01:37
Arkenoi	browser and email crashes just as often as n900 did	01:37
DocScrutinizer	Primes: there aren't enough around, and relevant bits are still blobs	01:37
jacekowski	from times when nobody heard about 3g	01:37
Arkenoi	the only difference is MfE now really works	01:37
javispedro	Arkenoi: NOWHERE near it.	01:37
Primes	my browsers never crashed on n900 (I used 4 so far)	01:38
jacekowski	Primes: BS	01:38
jacekowski	Primes: microb crashed	01:38
Arkenoi	microb did crash quite frequently for me	01:38
javispedro	browser crashes for every other page, EVEN with the advantage that the N950 has NO flash while the N900 does (and Flash is to blame for most the crashes I had on the N900)	01:38
jacekowski	Primes: chromium crashed	01:38
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: look at $random_app, what do you see? Right! portrait mode	01:38
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: portrait mode is not a nuisance for me	01:38
javispedro	actually I partially prefer portrait mode.	01:38
DocScrutinizer	for me it is	01:38
trx	i only had camera app crash	01:39
Primes	"you're surfing it wrong"	01:39
trx	nothing else	01:39
trx	i have uptimes of 30days	01:39
fusi	..ok	01:39
javispedro	and fenix has lots of crashes pluse a few reproduceable ones (try to fetch mail without an active icd2 connection for ex.)	01:39
*** nox- has joined #maemo		01:39
*** dominikb_ has quit IRC		01:39
javispedro	I can even get Xorg to crash....	01:39
fusi	i havent managed that yet ^^	01:40
javispedro	the first days I was considering sending my coredumps directory... but by now it's rather large.	01:40
Primes	I got openoffice running. Went to our hackerspace the other day. I was the only person whose phone could run openoffice lol	01:41
javispedro	webos also could run openoffice!	01:41
* javispedro goes cries some more		01:41
DocScrutinizer	FWIW: http://paste.debian.net/126674/	01:41
Primes	if they made n900 in an ipad form factor I'd use it	01:42
javispedro	Primes: http://cordiatab.com/	01:42
* Arkenoi wishes n950 could run DtG, OOo sucks big time		01:42
*** InvalidHandle has joined #maemo		01:43
*** ErwinJunge has joined #maemo		01:43
*** jhb has quit IRC		01:43
Primes	that cordia tab looks nice, but why the mono speaker rather than stereo?	01:44
DocScrutinizer	pfff on N950 _everything_ sucks, except HARMed err MTFed apps that are able to decode sausage touch events	01:44
javispedro	well, everything not.	01:45
Primes	Sausage touch? That sounds rude, I daren't ask	01:45
javispedro	I'm rather impressed by Qt's rendering and relayouting speed.	01:45
DocScrutinizer	yoh	01:45
DocScrutinizer	doesn't help though	01:46
DocScrutinizer	c-ts is c-ts is c-ts	01:46
javispedro	c-ts is crap ts indeed.	01:46
javispedro	can't understand why anyone would want it.	01:46
*** Dhraakellian has quit IRC		01:46
javispedro	ah, you meant "everything" as in "every desktop GNU/Linux app".	01:47
javispedro	misunderstood.	01:47
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC		01:47
* Arkenoi loves n950 feel		01:47
*** Dhraakellian has joined #maemo		01:47
DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: the device is shiny, and cool, and good quality. Just it's almost a me-too-iPhone and not made for DocScrutinizer	01:48
Arkenoi	keyboard is way better	01:48
*** thomastp has quit IRC		01:48
Arkenoi	if it would not be spoiled with "smart" behavior	01:48
javispedro	there's something weird with the hwkb	01:49
DocScrutinizer	yeah, and you actually can use the kbd when device sits on table	01:49
javispedro	I do not like the keyb as much as the N900 or N810.	01:49
javispedro	but I cannot tell why.	01:49
Arkenoi	is there no known method to force it to behave as a decent keyboard should do, without all that stupid "smartphone smartass tricks"?	01:50
Primes	a friend had a nokia external bluetooth keyboard he bought on ebay I guess it might connect with the n900. His was white and folded in half, nearly full size keys	01:50
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: usually I get same feeling, but 5 days ago I had 30s were I noticed it's not bad at all, This moment ended as it came	01:50
javispedro	I do think it might be because it requires getting used to it.	01:50
Primes	you mean it insists on that texting expansion prediction tricks?	01:50
Arkenoi	i switched to n900 from e90 and i can say n900 keyboard truly sucked. with n950 i feel almost as comfortable as before	01:50
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: that, and the missing convexity of keycaps	01:51
javispedro	But I do not remember such a strong feeling when moving from n810 to n900 and there is no comparison (the n810 is ages better)	01:51
*** Dibblah__ has joined #maemo		01:51
Primes	n900 keys are a little small. I'd quite like the n900 bigger/wider. In particular the extra line of keys for the numerics, like the n950	01:51
javispedro	so, as said, I feel there's something weird. Can't get to the same speed and it gets tiresome.	01:51
Arkenoi	Primes: prediction can be turned off, but weird attempts to insert capital letter after dot etc etc cannot	01:52
DocScrutinizer	that's probably all about the keycap shape	01:52
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: might be, come to think of it.	01:52
Primes	It's compactness, I can burst to 89 words a minute on a full desktop quality keyboard, mobile is a compromise	01:52
javispedro	on both the N810 and the N900 they were slightly convex as you mentioned	01:52
Primes	Right that's annoying. I do my own capitalisation by choice	01:53
javispedro	Primes: you clearly are not a Maemo oldtimer, eh?	01:53
javispedro	you get used to it.	01:53
DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: that are the flaws in OS that will never vanish	01:53
Primes	no, I wanted this N900 since launch, now I have one. I was using linux for many years though	01:53
Arkenoi	DocScrutinizer: ..like? except aegis	01:53
DocScrutinizer	<Arkenoi> Primes: prediction can be turned off, but weird attempts to insert capital letter after dot etc etc cannot	01:54
javispedro	all of them can be turned off, afaik vkb is mostly open.	01:54
*** Dibblah_ has quit IRC		01:54
DocScrutinizer	ooh it is?	01:54
Arkenoi	javispedro: HOW?	01:54
javispedro	probably same level as Maemo though.	01:54
*** peterbjornx has quit IRC		01:54
javispedro	Arkenoi: on Maemo? the package you want to edit is called hildon input method.	01:55
Arkenoi	ah, vkb. and how can i turn it off for hw keyboard?	01:55
javispedro	same	01:55
DocScrutinizer	so pretty please FIX THE SHIT somebody! IT's so annoying the Fn and shift key are not sticky	01:55
Primes	Considering n900 is available used for less than 1/3 of the launch price, it's a bargain	01:55
*** chenca1 has quit IRC		01:55
Arkenoi	javispedro: on fremantle i successfully turned it off just using standard settings	01:55
DocScrutinizer	let alone autocapitalization	01:55
Primes	Stickyness needs to be a configurable option. Autocapitalization is always evil.	01:56
DocScrutinizer	as is the braindamaged word completion	01:57
Arkenoi	nokia's obsession with it is ridiculous. same thing on symbian	01:57
* javispedro tries to forget about the HP news and continue coding as usual...		01:57
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		01:58
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: to better your mood (I hoe): any news about FMRX audio?	01:58
DocScrutinizer	hope*	01:58
javispedro	sadly, no	01:58
*** Venemo_ has quit IRC		01:58
javispedro	I've been busy with vsync as of lately but the current status is the same as last week: out of ideas.	01:59
Primes	when will the n9 be available?	01:59
javispedro	maybe never	01:59
Arkenoi	HP was acting like idiots since the very beginning. i know several people who were willing to buy webOS device once it will be available in the local store, but it did never get in.	01:59
DocScrutinizer	don't you think the dude that wrote "(c) <me>@nokia" into header of audio related stuff should be able to help?	01:59
Primes	not never, just not in many countries	02:00
*** kthomas has quit IRC		02:00
Primes	amazon will have it, sourced from Austria	02:00
javispedro	yeah well even the swedish site that used to promote it is gone	02:00
javispedro	so ask amazon...	02:00
*** marthd has joined #maemo		02:01
Primes	they now say it won't be in UK (my home) , finland (their home) or germany (linux hackers home)	02:01
Arkenoi	majority of people buys in local retail only, no internet orders	02:01
Arkenoi	and it was not available	02:01
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you'd think that audio dude had to have access to the schematic details for all McBSP and analog audio crap	02:02
Arkenoi	(nor via the internet worldwide officially anyways)	02:02
Primes	maybe the networks and their stores don't want an "open" phone that supports multi network, voip, less "customisation" (crapware)	02:02
Arkenoi	Primes: no one gives a flying fsck to cellular network operators here in russia	02:03
Arkenoi	they do not control the market at all	02:03
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: so you're saying I should email the wl1273 fm driver author..	02:03
Primes	most people buy subsidised phone on contract. The n9 is more like 600 GBP sim free	02:03
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC		02:03
Arkenoi	and it is typical in EMEA as i understand it	02:03
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yes, CC alsa author	02:03
javispedro	alsa author is TI, mostly	02:03
DocScrutinizer	CC PA author (though this prolly will be the same)	02:04
javispedro	except for wl1273 codec which is the same guy	02:04
Primes	I bought my phones without contracts. If not I'd unlock them anyway.	02:04
*** marthd_ has quit IRC		02:04
Primes	The sheeple will continue to buy iphones and androids	02:04
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: aaah, CC quim gil OF COURSE	02:05
javispedro	let's try the fm driver guy first, I hope he knows the rm680 best.	02:05
DocScrutinizer	CC konttori CC DocScrutinizer	02:05
*** madduck has quit IRC		02:06
DocScrutinizer	I'd not miss qgil out of CC, it might be relevant he keeps track of the problems the devels face. And please include me to CC as well	02:07
*** madduck has joined #maemo		02:08
DocScrutinizer	if you don't mind	02:08
DocScrutinizer	try to find the guy who checked in the alsaped rules file (whatever been the real name of that cryptic crap), he's the one who definitely has to know all about audio	02:11
javispedro	oh	02:13
javispedro	this reminds me	02:13
javispedro	the alsaped files also hint about analog fmrx	02:13
javispedro	but I dunno whether it is a reminiscence of N900 or what.	02:14
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: grep fmrx and you'll see.	02:14
javispedro	(there's no much though)	02:14
DocScrutinizer	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63997	02:14
javispedro	MY EYES! THE GOGGLES! THEY DO NOTHING!!!	02:15
DocScrutinizer	CBA to download some *.sh.gz to find out about the FQNof alsaped file	02:15
javispedro	from that guy?	02:15
javispedro	I have real device	02:15
javispedro	btw	02:15
javispedro	first nomination for september council election: jeremiah	02:16
DocScrutinizer	mind sharing the FQN?	02:16
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: ah, a moment.	02:16
javispedro	/usr/share/policy/etc/noswap/pulse/xpolicy.conf	02:17
javispedro	(n950)	02:17
javispedro	actually	02:17
javispedro	it's funny.	02:17
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		02:17
javispedro	that file hints about the DIGITAL input	02:17
* javispedro is now confused		02:17
DocScrutinizer	thnx	02:17
* DocScrutinizer boots 950		02:18
javispedro	ah, here it is.	02:18
javispedro	so you have two references to fmrx on the same file	02:18
javispedro	one mentions fmrx input via digital port aka codec	02:18
javispedro	wl127x codec	02:18
javispedro	the other mentions analog port aka hw0	02:19
javispedro	(which is twl codec)	02:19
javispedro	it does correctly mention that BT HSP goes via wl127x, and a2dp goes via bluez.	02:20
*** antman8969 has quit IRC		02:21
DocScrutinizer	hmm	02:22
Jaffa	javispedro: Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75863?	02:23
javispedro	oh, first time there's more info on TMO than on the community mailing list! ;)	02:24
Jaffa	javispedro: Yeah, well SD69 fucked up the formatting, sending BBCode everywhere. So, for once, TMO has better formatting. It's entertaining in a mini-TMO kinda way	02:24
javispedro	(actually seems to be because the ml mail was misformatted and brain skipped it)	02:24
*** liar has quit IRC		02:26
*** florian has quit IRC		02:26
*** flo_lap has quit IRC		02:28
*** sirdancealot is now known as nude_tree		02:28
*** licensed has quit IRC		02:29
*** setanta_ has quit IRC		02:30
*** meegoexperts has quit IRC		02:31
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC		02:31
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo		02:32
javispedro	ohnoes, politics!	02:32
*** Chiku01 has quit IRC		02:33
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		02:34
*** Dhraakellian has quit IRC		02:35
* javispedro doesn't have an opinion on the maemo.org topic		02:36
*** Chiku has joined #maemo		02:38
villager	crappety crap... the lcd display on my n900 has cracked... it's like "brand new! psychedelic n900! now with funky randomly colored stripes and groovy flickering"	02:38
javispedro	sadly, I'm just a type B in Jaffa's "two types of people" list, and thus I'd just move try to set up a diablo autobuilder in COBS and call it a day.	02:38
javispedro	diablo+fremantle	02:38
*** Natunen has quit IRC		02:39
Jaffa	javispedro: A Diablo/Fremantle autobuilder in COBS helps solve the biggest cost sink in maemo.org (I'm guessing): the autobuilder & repos	02:40
javispedro	is it a given that nokia will keep tablet-dev.n.c up though?	02:40
*** Dhraakellian has joined #maemo		02:41
javispedro	err... tablets-dev	02:41
*** licensed has joined #maemo		02:42
*** licensed has joined #maemo		02:42
villager	I'm guessing there's not much chance of getting the n900 display repaired these days...	02:42
*** e-yes has quit IRC		02:43
*** NGNUton-BC has joined #maemo		02:44
Jaffa	javispedro: If not, that's "solvable" by discussion (I'd guess)	02:44
Sc0rpius	wow HP killed WebOS	02:44
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		02:44
* javispedro cries again		02:44
Jaffa	javispedro: You're going to be doing that a lot, aren't you?	02:47
Jaffa	webOS was interesting, but they just didn't make any hardware that interested me running it	02:47
*** deimos has quit IRC		02:47
javispedro	indeed.	02:47
javispedro	thought I was eyeing the Pre3.	02:48
javispedro	*though	02:48
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		02:48
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC		02:48
*** bugzy has quit IRC		02:50
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		02:55
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		02:56
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		02:56
Primes	n900 display and/or digitiser were often on ebay these days	02:56
*** Sickki_ has joined #maemo		02:56
*** Sickki has quit IRC		02:57
*** Sickki_ is now known as Sickki		02:57
fusi	guide anywhere on how to fix broken usb port yourself? ive got a general idea, just need to read something	02:58
SpeedEvil	~usbfix	02:58
infobot	Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<<	02:58
fusi	thanks m8	02:59
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		02:59
*** Smily has joined #maemo		02:59
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo		03:00
fusi	off to maplins tomorrow ^^	03:00
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		03:00
fusi	buy myself a teeeenie tiny soldering iron	03:00
villager	Primes: hmm, interesting	03:00
SpeedEvil	Also the appropriate screwdriver	03:00
SpeedEvil	Possibly an idea to source a fresh USB socket too	03:01
fusi	the port hasnt come off th board yet	03:02
fusi	but its failing to charge	03:02
Primes	used n900 available around 120 GBP from cex store. You could get lower C grade or locked if you just want to cannibalise for parts	03:02
SpeedEvil	fusi: 0th question.	03:02
SpeedEvil	fusi: Have you checked another lead/computer?	03:03
SpeedEvil	Primes: what store?	03:03
fusi	thanks Primes	03:03
fusi	SpeedEvil: heheh yes ;)	03:03
*** Smily has quit IRC		03:03
fusi	just wondering if it can be fixed if its still on the baord	03:03
SpeedEvil	fusi: Also - find a bright light, and ensure there is no debris in the connector	03:03
fusi	or if its a gonner already	03:03
fusi	na its defo gone m8	03:04
SpeedEvil	k	03:04
fusi	i can/could get charge light with certain force on port	03:04
fusi	through cable i.e. pushing upwards, inwards, outwards etc	03:04
fusi	gut feelin says im gonna have to pull it off the board and do a botch job	03:05
fusi	surface mounted isnt it?	03:05
fusi	connectors are gonna be underneath, wont get an iorn in there	03:05
fusi	hmm	03:05
Primes	speedevil the high street store selling used n900 have online cex.co.uk see pricing and stock availability (what is in what store) there	03:05
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		03:06
fusi	what are the A B and C's for?	03:07
fusi	quality?	03:07
Primes	A will be mint condition with a box and all accessory	03:07
fusi	ooh	03:07
fusi	really?	03:08
fusi	hmmm	03:08
Primes	I bought a B and actually it had those, with very few minor scratches that aren't visible in use really (I probably gave more scratch myself)	03:08
fusi	im soooo tempted to buy a secod one	03:08
fusi	suprised somewhere has it in stock	03:09
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		03:09
Primes	some B will not have box/accessories. C will be tested working, probably charger but no video out cable etc.	03:09
Primes	yeah well all those iphone wanters traded in their n900 probably	03:09
Primes	you can also watch the n900 on ebay, but it's hard to know what price the auction will finish at because of competing bidders	03:10
fusi	heh	03:13
fusi	aye	03:13
fusi	hmm	03:13
fusi	i hope the seals havent come off	03:13
fusi	bet they bloody have	03:13
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		03:13
Primes	yeah I'm kinda tempted to get second n900 myself, run one on o2, one on three	03:14
Primes	three have a new "unlimited" data sim. From my use of three mifi unit their network seems ok	03:15
*** TimmyT1 has joined #maemo		03:22
*** bugzy has joined #maemo		03:23
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC		03:24
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		03:24
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		03:24
fusi	oooh	03:25
fusi	im so tempted but i really cant afford it	03:25
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo		03:25
fusi	i only really need one	03:25
*** FIQ has quit IRC		03:25
fusi	right	03:26
fusi	next question	03:26
fusi	given a 500ma usb cable, can i charge a battery directly	03:27
fusi	i.e. if i strip the wire down	03:27
fusi	ill google that heh ;p	03:27
Primes	you don't charge those lithium battery by wire it up to usb 5v!!! Lithium could catch fire. You can recharge battery in another n900, another nokia phone using the same battery, the battery charger official is also available	03:30
Primes	also I'm guess n900 price in cex may fall once n9 becomes onto market (n900 owners selling to upgrade)	03:31
*** disco_stu_droid has joined #maemo		03:34
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		03:34
fusi	d'oh	03:34
fusi	have just been reading stuff along those lines	03:34
fusi	sigh	03:34
fusi	i am now phoneless for an indeterminate perdiod of time	03:35
Primes	some other nokia phone use the same battery. See if any friends own that, or buy a spare battery that will come in handy, or see if a friendly store can charge it for you	03:36
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		03:36
*** disco_stu_droid is now known as disco_stu		03:37
fusi	i dont trust people	03:37
fusi	:p	03:37
fusi	have just bought a desktop charger	03:37
fusi	might arrive by saterday maybe	03:38
Primes	I trust people to charge a battery, I don't hand them my root passwords or encryption keys	03:39
Primes	how much was the charger?	03:39
fusi	i guess im saying, id rather sort it out myself than rely on others ;)	03:39
fusi	4 quid ish	03:39
fusi	http://www.bestofferbuy.com/bl5j-battery-desktop-charger-for-nokia-n900-5800-x6-p-56247.html	03:39
Primes	yes it's less favours they can call in	03:40
fusi	well, i dont like asking and getting rejected ;p	03:40
Primes	I can handle the rejection assuming I don't have to visit the store in future :-)	03:42
*** Evanescence has joined #maemo		03:43
Primes	That charger is really cheap. It's not original nokia OEM, but it will charge those batteries. Tempting.	03:43
Primes	Early n900 had a problem where charging port usb came off. Later design revision changed it. Don't know which you have but some engineer may be experienced at the replacement and have required tools	03:44
*** geaaru_ has quit IRC		03:46
*** kthomas has quit IRC		03:50
Primes	hi I I need xsltproc to be installed. How can I do it?	03:57
*** Evanescence has quit IRC		03:57
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		03:58
*** Scifig has joined #maemo		04:00
*** disco_stu_droid has joined #maemo		04:05
*** Sazpaimon_ has joined #maemo		04:08
*** trx has quit IRC		04:08
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		04:09
*** kW_ has quit IRC		04:09
*** disco_stu_droid is now known as disco_stu		04:10
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		04:11
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC		04:11
*** NGNUton-BC has quit IRC		04:13
*** trx has joined #maemo		04:15
*** marthd has quit IRC		04:17
*** net`split has quit IRC		04:18
*** Dhraakellian has quit IRC		04:18
DocScrutinizer	fusi: you'll see on those pictures on tmo that the contacts are not under the component, despite it's SMT	04:21
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo usbfix	04:22
infobot	usbfix -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Thu Aug 4 15:11:27 2011 (14 days); it has been requested 11 times, last by SpeedEvil, 1h 23m 8s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer.	04:22
DocScrutinizer	~usbfix	04:22
infobot	Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<<	04:22
DocScrutinizer	err	04:22
*** beford has joined #maemo		04:23
DocScrutinizer	fusi: can you still connect to PC and select mass storage/PCsuite mode?	04:23
*** TimmyT1 has quit IRC		04:25
*** Scifig has quit IRC		04:25
*** Dhraakellian has joined #maemo		04:30
*** e-yes has quit IRC		04:42
*** flailingmonkey has joined #maemo		04:44
*** Primes has quit IRC		04:44
*** Jucato has quit IRC		04:44
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		04:47
*** Mousey has quit IRC		04:51
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		04:54
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle		04:55
*** luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr		04:57
*** bugzy has quit IRC		04:57
*** nox- has quit IRC		04:57
*** bugzy has joined #maemo		04:57
*** hurbu_ has joined #maemo		05:01
*** hurbu has quit IRC		05:04
javispedro	and much like after the elopcalypse, HP stock is already going DOOOOOOoooooooowwwn	05:05
*** disco_stu_droid has joined #maemo		05:05
javispedro	-10% so far.	05:05
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		05:08
*** disco_stu_droid is now known as disco_stu		05:09
GeneralAntilles	lol	05:09
GeneralAntilles	Lotta idiots at the top	05:09
GeneralAntilles	The baby boomers need to die off or retired	05:09
*** Smily has joined #maemo		05:11
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:11
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:12
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:12
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:12
*** Spydemon has quit IRC		05:12
*** LarsN has joined #maemo		05:19
LarsN	villager: aty?	05:19
LarsN	ayt too...	05:19
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake		05:20
* javispedro hopes for a rather large hp tablet price drop, it still has a IPS screen after all =)		05:25
javispedro	so many people "returning" their tablets on #webos that it might happen	05:25
LarsN	I toyed with the idea of a WebOS tablet	05:27
*** Evanescence has joined #maemo		05:27
LarsN	I think I'm going to get a convertable Lenovo netbook/tablet and just dual boot meego and pc-bsd on it.	05:27
javispedro	I am getting the x220	05:28
flailingmonkey	i really want a pre3... :/	05:28
javispedro	(x220t)	05:28
LarsN	I'm looking at the x220s with the slate battery	05:29
flailingmonkey	i've used an original pixi, and the UI is pretty nice. i don't really know what brought about this whole decision	05:29
LarsN	still thinking the lite convertable tablet would be a good addition.	05:29
flailingmonkey	and the whole notion of phone + tablet + desktop integration was crucial	05:31
javispedro	flailingmonkey: I do agree; it's a stupid idea but it rather works	05:32
*** script has quit IRC		05:32
javispedro	there was an Intel Meego demo doing the same months before HP's.	05:32
javispedro	HP marketed it first though.	05:32
flailingmonkey	if integration is implemented solidly, it is a major benefit. not just feature	05:33
*** licensed has quit IRC		05:33
LarsN	I think the blackberry + playbook integration is pretty good	05:33
*** maybeWTF has joined #maemo		05:33
LarsN	of course neither is open, and neither works particularly well with !windows	05:33
*** bugzy has quit IRC		05:34
*** maybeHere has quit IRC		05:34
*** antman8969 has joined #maemo		05:35
javispedro	either way, Pre3=N)	05:35
javispedro	Pre3=N9	05:35
javispedro	you'd be lucky if you ever find one.	05:35
LarsN	I have a friend who might be willing to ship me an N9 when they're released.	05:36
*** kthomas has quit IRC		05:36
LarsN	as it is, I'm attempting to install the devel version of sync-evolution to see if I can get my calendars syncing at work. and at home.	05:37
javispedro	ah, the death of PalmOne.	05:40
ds3	both palms are gone	05:42
ds3	we need something useful	05:42
ds3	useable would suffice	05:42
javispedro	well, PalmSource is still somewhat alive	05:47
javispedro	one half of PalmSource is doing rather well	05:47
javispedro	they made some rather popular Linux-based operating system	05:48
javispedro	I think they call it Android.	05:48
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		05:52
LarsN	javispedro: so palmsource was purchased by oracle eh? :)	05:53
LarsN	javispedro: sorry, couldn't resist the Dalvek jab	05:53
javispedro	there is no purchase involved, it's just that a bunch of employees went for android in 2005/2006 and you can see large influences of PalmOS in the design	05:54
javispedro	like Binder (from Palm/Be's OpenBinder)	05:55
*** Psi has quit IRC		05:58
*** Psi has joined #maemo		05:58
*** dockane_ has quit IRC		06:00
*** dockane has joined #maemo		06:01
*** Natunen has joined #maemo		06:01
flailingmonkey	yeah	06:09
flailingmonkey	i wonder where the MeeGo Nokians will go... I keep waiting for someone to round up the best of Nokia's engineers and create a startup	06:10
flailingmonkey	but I bet software patents would be an issue	06:10
flailingmonkey	NokiaSoft vs Googmoto vs Apple, Patent Goliaths	06:11
ds3	really? thought Access nuked them	06:11
*** radic has quit IRC		06:12
javispedro	ds3: and what happens when you nuke a company? the talent goes into a then-startup.	06:14
ds3	javispedro: the talent left a long time ago	06:24
*** kthomas has quit IRC		06:24
*** radic has joined #maemo		06:25
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		06:26
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		06:28
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		06:29
*** Sazpaimon_ has quit IRC		06:29
*** mase76 has quit IRC		06:31
*** X-Fade has quit IRC		06:36
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC		06:54
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		06:59
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		07:00
*** x29a has quit IRC		07:00
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo		07:00
*** hardaker2 has joined #maemo		07:01
*** x29a_ has quit IRC		07:01
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo		07:01
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		07:07
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		07:07
*** Evanescence has quit IRC		07:11
*** Sazpaimon_ has joined #maemo		07:11
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC		07:11
*** javispedro has quit IRC		07:14
*** NGNUton-BC has joined #maemo		07:19
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		07:21
*** Sazpaimon_ has quit IRC		07:21
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		07:28
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		07:31
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC		07:31
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo		07:31
*** dar3d3vil has quit IRC		07:32
*** X-Fade has joined #maemo		07:33
*** krayon has joined #maemo		07:40
*** krayon has left #maemo		07:41
*** asys3n has joined #maemo		07:42
*** kthomas has quit IRC		07:43
*** asys3n has quit IRC		07:45
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		07:46
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		07:47
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo		07:48
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		07:49
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		07:50
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		07:51
*** lxp has joined #maemo		07:54
*** kthomas has quit IRC		07:54
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		07:55
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		07:56
*** lxp1 has quit IRC		07:57
*** Roomerlol has joined #maemo		08:01
*** noir23 has quit IRC		08:02
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		08:08
*** kthomas has quit IRC		08:10
*** NGNUton-BC has quit IRC		08:11
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo		08:15
*** args[0] has joined #maemo		08:16
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC		08:17
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		08:25
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo		08:35
*** beford has quit IRC		08:36
*** larsivi has quit IRC		08:38
*** Openfree` has quit IRC		08:46
*** beford has joined #maemo		08:48
*** Sulx has joined #maemo		08:54
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		08:56
*** jpinx_away is now known as jpinx		09:13
*** mfridh has joined #maemo		09:17
*** mfridh has joined #maemo		09:17
*** andrenarchy has joined #maemo		09:23
*** andrenarchy has left #maemo		09:24
*** mece has joined #maemo		09:25
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo		09:28
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		09:34
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo		09:34
*** divan has joined #maemo		09:39
*** doc\|home has joined #maemo		09:40
*** schend has joined #maemo		09:46
RST38h	"China clones iPhone, iStores, Steve Jobs" =)	09:46
RST38h	http://micgadget.com/14745/xiaomis-ceo-is-imitating-steve-jobs/	09:47
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo		09:50
*** rcg has joined #maemo		09:55
*** beford has quit IRC		09:57
*** zap has joined #maemo		09:58
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		10:00
*** mairas has joined #maemo		10:02
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		10:03
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		10:05
antman8969	where is the innovation in china??	10:07
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		10:08
*** Sulx has quit IRC		10:08
*** Openfree` has joined #maemo		10:08
RST38h	Who cares about innovation?	10:09
RST38h	Nowadays, anyway...	10:09
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		10:13
villager	LarsN: "ayt"? no, I was sleeping a bit...	10:15
*** wazd has joined #maemo		10:15
*** ErwinJunge has quit IRC		10:15
RST38h	moo wazd	10:15
RST38h	wazd:I think you should also get a pair of jeans and a black turtleneck	10:16
RST38h	wazd: YOu will do a better Jobs impersonation that the Chinese guy	10:16
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		10:19
*** eijk has joined #maemo		10:19
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC		10:27
*** mairas has quit IRC		10:28
*** InvalidHandle has quit IRC		10:28
*** Sulx has joined #maemo		10:29
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo		10:29
*** script has joined #maemo		10:31
*** sasquatch has quit IRC		10:32
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo		10:35
*** script has quit IRC		10:36
*** jhb has joined #maemo		10:36
*** retro\|cz has joined #maemo		10:36
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		10:42
*** rcg has quit IRC		10:48
*** croppa has joined #maemo		10:48
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		10:50
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		10:50
*** antman8969 has quit IRC		10:52
*** drj_cro has joined #maemo		10:53
RST38h		11:05
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle		11:05
*** mairas has joined #maemo		11:13
*** Roomerlol has quit IRC		11:16
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		11:18
*** ced117 has quit IRC		11:18
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		11:18
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo		11:19
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		11:21
*** nze has joined #maemo		11:24
*** wazd has quit IRC		11:25
*** jack_lt has joined #maemo		11:25
jack_lt	hi, tried to make an Easy Debian squeeze image for the n900, the chroot works, but can't boot lxde graphically. Any idea how to launch x from chroot?	11:26
lupine_85	jack_lt, just a guess, but the X server is probably listening on a socket that isn't in the chroot	11:27
nze	i selected a bunch of applications for install with FAM before going to bed last night, this morning i find my n900 turned off (was charging, battery full)	11:27
nze	any was i can find out how far it got? i can't seem to find a dpkg.log (why is that?)	11:27
lupine_85	(UNIX socket)	11:27
lupine_85	I typically mount --bind /sys, /tmp, /proc and /dev as a matter of course in my chroots	11:27
lupine_85	(you've then got to ensure that $DISPLAY is sane, of course)	11:28
jack_lt	hmm ok	11:28
jack_lt	I am pretty new on this, you're warned ;)	11:28
lupine_85	like I said, this is entirely a guess - based on non-N900 chroot/X experience	11:29
jack_lt	and how does such a xephyr command looks like, to start it?	11:30
*** rcg has joined #maemo		11:31
jack_lt	when I use the graphical icon, I get an message for easy lxde and that I need to click 'ok' to grab the keybd	11:32
jack_lt	but then the screen turns black	11:32
lupine_85	sounds like you need more help than I can give	11:33
* jack_lt has financial problems too		11:34
*** larsivi has quit IRC		11:35
*** script has joined #maemo		11:36
*** flo_lap has quit IRC		11:36
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		11:41
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		11:42
*** zap has quit IRC		11:48
*** script has quit IRC		11:48
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		11:53
*** eMHa has quit IRC		12:01
*** drussell has quit IRC		12:02
*** hurbu_ has quit IRC		12:02
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo		12:02
*** florian_kc has quit IRC		12:02
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo		12:02
*** florian_kc is now known as florian		12:02
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		12:03
*** hurbu has joined #maemo		12:05
*** klasu_ has joined #maemo		12:05
*** nze has quit IRC		12:05
*** trx has quit IRC		12:05
*** vi__ has joined #maemo		12:09
vi__	if I delete genfstab.awk can I use my own static fstab?	12:10
robbiethe1st	Make sure you're backed up before you try it	12:10
vi__	robbiethe1st: I have just taken delivery of a brand spanking new N900	12:10
*** mc_teo has joined #maemo		12:10
vi__	I want to get the filesystem perfect before I install all my shit	12:11
vi__	Can I for example delete the .maps directory from Mydocs, re create it on /opt then mount bind it into Mydocs?	12:12
vi__	or is there some fat32 thing that I dont know about?	12:13
vi__	heres one. Do you think I could install grub onto Mydocs and use the N900 as a USB boot device for a PC?	12:14
*** drussell has joined #maemo		12:15
*** celesteh has quit IRC		12:15
*** mc_teo has quit IRC		12:18
robbiethe1st	the latter one... I don't know. I don't think so, though - the filesystem module exposes a "fake" MBR etc...	12:19
robbiethe1st	Booting off the SD card, however is definitely possible	12:19
vi__	robbiethe1st: just found a video on youtube pf some bro booting buntu mint	12:20
robbiethe1st	Yes. Just install it to your SD card and it'll work	12:20
*** e-yes has quit IRC		12:20
vi__	...interesting	12:20
*** Venemo has quit IRC		12:21
vi__	now, what is the best distro to boot?	12:21
robbiethe1st	No clue, but you can use MultiSystem and boot any number of distros	12:23
vi__	I know.	12:23
robbiethe1st	I'd go with Debian XFCE or LXDE	12:23
robbiethe1st	lightweight = quicker boot	12:23
vi__	what would be kinky would be repartitioning and flashing another N900 form an N900.	12:23
vi__	robbiethe1st: almost certainly, however I dont want a general purpose distro. Just somthing that will allow me to fix filesystems/re-partition/burn CDs/dump disk images of broken partitions/connect to the web.	12:25
*** mortenvp has joined #maemo		12:25
Jaffa	Morning, all	12:26
robbiethe1st	I would go with Debian LXDE or Puppy, then install the bits you need	12:26
robbiethe1st	that way you have the tools you want/need	12:26
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		12:27
kerio	i'd go with sysrescuecd	12:27
*** klasu_ has quit IRC		12:27
*** ced117 has quit IRC		12:31
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		12:34
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		12:35
*** tackat has joined #maemo		12:37
*** miss0 has quit IRC		12:37
*** joppu has quit IRC		12:37
*** aslani has quit IRC		12:38
*** T-Co has quit IRC		12:38
*** T-Co has joined #maemo		12:38
*** villev has quit IRC		12:38
*** miss0 has joined #maemo		12:38
*** joppu has joined #maemo		12:39
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		12:39
*** villev has joined #maemo		12:39
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		12:42
*** ced117 has quit IRC		12:42
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		12:42
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo		12:42
pavi	lxde is better than xfce	12:46
kerio	ROX-Desktop > else	12:47
*** zap_ has joined #maemo		12:48
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		12:50
inz	fvwm & xterm should me enough for everyone	12:50
kerio	rox is a great idea	12:50
kerio	not a new idea	12:50
kerio	but a great idea	12:51
kerio	automagical application bundles and stuff	12:51
*** Natunen has quit IRC		12:51
*** sq-one has joined #maemo		12:51
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		12:56
*** miss0 has quit IRC		13:02
*** miss0 has joined #maemo		13:02
*** miss0 has left #maemo		13:03
*** deimos has joined #maemo		13:04
*** sq-one has quit IRC		13:05
*** Guest72122 has quit IRC		13:05
*** Guest72122 has joined #maemo		13:05
*** Guest72122 is now known as xnt14		13:06
*** ErwinJunge has joined #maemo		13:08
*** djszapi has joined #maemo		13:10
xnt14	Does anyone know how to get NAT Transversal working on 3G for something useful like ssh?	13:11
djszapi	with own kernel I guess	13:11
djszapi	oops wrong channel, sorry :)	13:12
*** djszapi has left #maemo		13:12
*** vi__ has quit IRC		13:12
xnt14	This script works on my vps, but doesn't on T-Mobile's 3G network... http://www.rubyinside.com/skype-style-firewall-busting-with-ruby-and-udp-399.html	13:15
*** Trizt has quit IRC		13:16
ShadowJK	is it any different on 3g than other NATs?	13:17
*** Trizt has joined #maemo		13:19
chem\|st	ShadowJK: isn't it an ISP problem in that case?	13:19
xnt14	ShadowJK: It seems so. The script works even on one of the servers at work, but not on the N900.	13:20
*** mortenvp has quit IRC		13:20
ShadowJK	chem\|st, yes?	13:21
xnt14	well, T-Mobile probably won't let me open any ports even if I called their support number..	13:21
ShadowJK	I mean, if your ISP puts you behind a NAT, that's definitely the ISP restricting your internet connectivity	13:21
ShadowJK	it's not about "opening ports", if you're behind NAT you don't have an IP address	13:22
xnt14	ShadowJK: AFAIK, most mobile carriers put you behind a NAT	13:22
xnt14	AT&T US does the same... not sure about the other providors	13:22
ShadowJK	Could be	13:22
*** Spydemon has joined #maemo		13:23
xnt14	Any way around it?	13:23
*** drussell has quit IRC		13:23
xnt14	ShadowJK: does your carrier put you behind a NAT?	13:23
ShadowJK	no	13:23
xnt14	Which carrier? not in the US I presume?	13:23
ShadowJK	no not in the US	13:23
ShadowJK	that script will never work for ssh	13:24
xnt14	ShadowJK: true, but it's a start.	13:24
*** drussell has joined #maemo		13:24
xnt14	still curious, which carrier do you have?	13:25
ShadowJK	Saunalahti/Elisa in Finland	13:25
ShadowJK	they give out seemingly unlimited number of public IPs with no NAT	13:25
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		13:25
*** tackat_ has joined #maemo		13:25
xnt14	Ah. Nice. American carriers aren't so generous....	13:25
ShadowJK	For example I can have N900 itself on 3g with its own IP, and share internet connectivity over bluetooth to my laptop, and my laptop gets its own public IP with no NAT :P	13:26
*** tackat has quit IRC		13:26
xnt14	I could just run autossh on my N900 to my server, but that will drain battery.	13:26
xnt14	ShadowJK: my laptop just gets another NAT'd IP. >_>	13:26
ShadowJK	I actually use openvpn to my server. iirc I've got it configured for 30s keep-alives, which does reduce battery life on 2g to about a day	13:27
xnt14	I wonder if T-Mobile is still offering their ipv6 trial... they probably are giving out public IPs on that.	13:28
xnt14	ShadowJK: I keep my N900 on 3G, which does get better battery life when it's idle, but if I do anything that's bandwidth-intensive, the battery goes rapidly.	13:29
*** macmaN has quit IRC		13:29
*** trx has joined #maemo		13:30
xnt14	Hmm... http://maemo-experience.blogspot.com/2010/01/n900-hack-dynamic-dns-update.html	13:30
xnt14	I think I actually hate T-Mobile now. :P	13:30
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		13:35
DocScrutinizer	xnt14: actually bandwidth isn't the issue with 3G, it's frequency of transaction entities. Each data transfer, whether in or out, causes some heavy penalty on power consumption, i.e. bites out a certain chunk of energy from your battery	13:35
Malin_	Is there a way to run android-apps in maemo?	13:35
DocScrutinizer	xnt14: this is because on 3G the TX will stay active for some time even after sending/receiving a singley byte	13:36
DocScrutinizer	see http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#2G_data.2C_short_pings ff	13:37
xnt14	DocScrutinizer: So even running something that's very bandwidth-efficient would still kill the battery?	13:37
DocScrutinizer	yes	13:37
*** dar3d3vil has joined #maemo		13:37
mece	wait	13:38
DocScrutinizer	unless transfers are bundled and occur only occasionally, in chunks	13:38
mece	howcome it get ~100% better battery life while online on messengers with 2g?	13:38
mece	100% is not an exaggeration	13:38
DocScrutinizer	mece: see my explanation above	13:39
Sicelo	xnt14: did u consider reverse ssh?	13:39
xnt14	DocScrutinizer: I see...	13:40
*** kW_ has joined #maemo		13:40
mece	selvä	13:40
DocScrutinizer	unlike 3G the 2G energy consumption has no penalty for starting a TX event. Rather on 2G energy consumption is rather proportional to data volume transferred	13:40
mece	DocScrutinizer, nice..	13:40
xnt14	Sicelo: yes, but I would prefer a public IP. I can't reverse ssh to a school computer for example..	13:40
mece	ok how long is the 3g stayalive time?	13:40
xnt14	DocScrutinizer: so autossh on 2G would have much better battery life, right?	13:41
SpeedEvil	It depends if it kicks up into 3.5	13:41
SpeedEvil	If not, a few seconds	13:41
DocScrutinizer	two levels, one in the (sub)second range, the other like several seconds	13:41
mece	I catually need to know this because I'm developing a thing that needs to poll over http	13:41
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption	13:41
mece	s/catually/actually/	13:41
infobot	mece meant: I actually need to know this because I'm developing a thing that needs to poll over http	13:41
*** Termana\|rdlBNC is now known as Termana		13:42
Termana	good morning	13:42
*** mortenvp has joined #maemo		13:42
SpeedEvil	How often poll?	13:43
DocScrutinizer	Termana: moin	13:43
SpeedEvil	And how much data	13:43
SpeedEvil	You need to be quiet for over 10s before you get much power saving from 3g	13:44
mece	SpeedEvil, let's say the data would be regular http headers + say 100 bytes or so.	13:44
*** alehorst has joined #maemo		13:44
SpeedEvil	60s will probably get around 15mA - 1%/hour use.	13:44
mece	it's a hash and gps coordinates in text format	13:44
SpeedEvil	How often?	13:44
mece	fast. 1-5s	13:45
SpeedEvil	That's going to hurt	13:45
mece	that's ok.	13:45
chem\|st	bigtime!	13:45
SpeedEvil	You're looking at 20% or so an hour on 3G	13:45
mece	it's meant for short periods	13:45
DocScrutinizer	also keep in mind TCP is a protocol with handshake (and GPRS afaik has its own handshake for all data), so even receiving data cranks up your GSM TX to send the ACK/whatever	13:45
mece	i'd say 5-15 minutes max	13:45
SpeedEvil	Then it's not an issue	13:45
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		13:45
DocScrutinizer	hah, not an issue?	13:46
mece	lol	13:46
DocScrutinizer	I'd guess 4..8 times 15min eats thru your battery	13:46
mece	a stream would be better, but that complicates things	13:46
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: in big cities with reliable 3G network, if the network is just a bit weak you get 40% drain in an hour without pwsaving	13:46
chem\|st	2h SIP talk was my max with freshly charged bat	13:48
chem\|st	when it was new...	13:48
DocScrutinizer	(handshake, TX) especially nice when you got public IP and nothing stops random far ends to ping your device. Each ping will bite a chunk out of your battery life	13:48
SpeedEvil	Admittedly, IIRC my tests were done with a good 3G signal.	13:48
SpeedEvil	Though about as far from 'city' as you can get.	13:48
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: that was with good signal...	13:49
SpeedEvil	2h SIP uses the higher power mode, and will be of the order of 1/4/hour	13:49
SpeedEvil	The above do not count CPU activity beyond bare minimums	13:50
chem\|st	k	13:50
xnt14	Signing up for the T-Mobile ipv6 trial. :)	13:51
chem\|st	would guess like DocScrutinizer to have 4-8 times 15mins possible with any 3g signal	13:51
SpeedEvil	mece: Why are you doing this - rather than polling less often?	13:51
xnt14	This way, I'll get a public ipv6 IP. which is better than a NATed ip.	13:52
DocScrutinizer	xnt14: [2011-08-19 12:48:42] <DocScrutinizer> (handshake, TX) especially nice when you got public IP and nothing stops random far ends to ping your device. Each ping will bite a chunk out of your battery life	13:54
xnt14	Now I just need to run my router through an ipv6 tunnel broker....	13:55
DocScrutinizer	xnt14: a very special DoS attack. Just ping your IP to see device go down with flat battery after 90min	13:55
xnt14	DocScrutinizer: I don't mind. I can always switch to the ipv4 APN...	13:56
DocScrutinizer	not with flat battery :-D	13:56
DocScrutinizer	so stating a publicly visible IP is always better than NAT is just incorrect	13:56
xnt14	I usually keep my N900 plugged in... battery life during conference calls is terrible anyways.	13:57
DocScrutinizer	mhm	13:57
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		13:57
xnt14	I'm willing to accept the risks of having a public IP....	13:57
DocScrutinizer	anyway bbl o/	13:57
* DocScrutinizer heads off to fix some borked PC of some 'customer'		13:58
xnt14	Bye...	13:58
xnt14	I should go to sleep now. I've been up all night and I have to wake up in an hour..	13:59
xnt14	Good 'night', everyone.	13:59
*** marthd has joined #maemo		14:11
crashanddie	So, the community has lost roughly 40% of its contributors	14:14
crashanddie	There are no devices planned	14:14
crashanddie	No new OS planned for the current devices.	14:14
*** mairas has quit IRC		14:15
crashanddie	Yet, we still want a new council?	14:15
crashanddie	Whatfor, exactly?	14:15
crashanddie	Discussing with Nokia? Pfffff.	14:15
crashanddie	Uniting the community? Pfffff.	14:15
*** tackat has joined #maemo		14:16
*** tackat_ has quit IRC		14:17
RST38h	moo all	14:19
RST38h	BTW, HP is [finally] kaput	14:19
RST38h	And so is WebOS.	14:19
*** InvalidHandle has joined #maemo		14:19
*** jreznik-mobile has joined #maemo		14:19
mece	SpeedEvil, sorry was afk a bit. I want realtimeish position updates	14:20
*** jreznik-mobile has quit IRC		14:20
RST38h	Which leaves us with what? iOS, Android, andWP	14:20
flailingmonkey	RIM	14:21
flailingmonkey	bada	14:21
RST38h	No, RIM is also dead	14:21
*** Natunen has joined #maemo		14:21
crashanddie	Does MeeGo on the N900 or any other phone work?	14:21
RST38h	Bada is just an asian Symbian clone	14:21
flailingmonkey	Symbian is like a zombie, somehow still not dead	14:22
RST38h	Meego is also dead btw, some people just haven't accepted it yet	14:22
flailingmonkey	meego handset or all of meego	14:22
RST38h	Symbian will be dead as soon as all of its original managers from Nokia find new jobs	14:22
psycho_oreos	MeeGo apparently does work on N900, but I'm unsure of its current status with video chip acceleration. The last I checked only certain builds have proper gpu acceleration	14:23
flailingmonkey	what I mean is even with Nokia trying to kill it, Symbian is refuses to die	14:24
psycho_oreos	Symbian probably won't die for quite sometime, it has already gain a cult within the asian communities (note the various cloned phones running symbian with various skins on top)	14:25
flailingmonkey	and they aren't going to play the Microsoft game out in Asia	14:26
chouchoune	RST38h: why "finally" ?	14:26
psycho_oreos	remember that Symbian one stage held a very large social acceptance, so these things take sometime for the markets to re-adapt. Contrary to all that, I'm sure at the rate of hacked Symbian to run on exotic phones coming out of asia may also die quite quickly as already have started picking up android for tablets.	14:28
*** tank-man has quit IRC		14:29
DocScrutinizer	so what's our options for a decent OS in the future? Try and turn android into a true proper Linux again?	14:30
psycho_oreos	turning android into proper linux isn't going to be likely. Once the purpose of the OS has been established and has been kept in that style it'll be unlikely for them to make dramatic changes	14:31
*** tank-man has joined #maemo		14:31
DocScrutinizer	or go the "fringe path" and cling with maemo, adopt SHR?	14:31
derf	psycho_oreos: "They" won't make the changes. You'd have to fork it.	14:32
DocScrutinizer	exactly	14:32
chouchoune	Fusion Garage did fork Android, it's possible ...	14:33
psycho_oreos	derf, in that case it'll be loads of fun times ahead as well. Though I'm sure nobody here actually has a proper crystal ball to see the future of android	14:33
*** ckandeler_ has joined #maemo		14:33
chouchoune	but ... why not a proper Linux distribution then ...	14:33
RST38h	Doc: I would say, use stock Linux as the base, add Android to it	14:33
RST38h	Doc: as compatiblity layer	14:33
DocScrutinizer	sounds reasonable as a first approach	14:34
* RST38h strokes his crystal balls, makes a prediction about Android		14:34
*** ckandeler has quit IRC		14:34
chouchoune	RST38h: you mean, Meego + Dalvik ? ;)	14:34
DocScrutinizer	where stock linux is any debian based distro, e.g maemo	14:34
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		14:34
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		14:35
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo		14:35
DocScrutinizer	chouchoune: sounds like our best bet to keep something decent alive	14:35
flailingmonkey	Android meaning the kernel, and Linux meaning... the kernel?	14:35
flailingmonkey	double-kernels	14:35
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		14:35
RST38h	No	14:35
DocScrutinizer	eh?	14:35
RST38h	Linux kernel, linux libs,linux userland	14:35
psycho_oreos	dealing with android doesn't actually stop there, there's also android devices with locked bootloaders, they'll probably be as much fun to hack with as what Symbian phones previously had	14:35
flailingmonkey	two kernels enter, no users win	14:36
*** macmaN has joined #maemo		14:36
DocScrutinizer	with alien-dalvik on top	14:36
RST38h	Just dalvik and android java libs on top	14:36
RST38h	kinda like an emulator	14:36
flailingmonkey	then say dalvik, there isn't anything android about that :p	14:36
*** ab has joined #maemo		14:36
flailingmonkey	android is either kernel, or UX	14:36
flailingmonkey	and then a few shitty apps :p ;)	14:37
RST38h	flaili: if you would like to discuss therminology, Wikipedia is going to be a better place than this channel	14:37
RST38h	moo ab	14:37
DocScrutinizer	hrhrhr	14:37
ab	RST38h,	14:37
flailingmonkey	the question then returns to, what linux "userland" are you imagining	14:38
*** mairas has joined #maemo		14:38
*** ckandeler has joined #maemo		14:38
DocScrutinizer	I'd be interested in general collabora* take on the whole thing	14:39
*** ckandeler_ has quit IRC		14:39
RST38h	ab: Have you heard it? WebOS is out. And so is HP, as a hardware manufacturer	14:40
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: isn't that pretty obvious? a "clean" userland, where linux still is linux	14:40
*** Roomerlol has joined #maemo		14:40
x29a_	bug bummer, was suprised of how fast they killed webOS, specially with the whole html5 web bubble beeing still around	14:40
* RST38h wonders if there are Carly Fiorina's voodoo dolls on the market		14:40
flailingmonkey	where the men are men, the women are men, and even the bugs are men	14:41
x29a_	im curious how bb's qnx will hit the market	14:41
x29a_	in general, they make quite decent/stable products	14:41
ab	RST38h, Ari said they continue with WebOS full steam	14:41
x29a_	but on a private basis, right?	14:41
flailingmonkey	i feel so bad for Ari	14:42
ab	RST38h, apparently, Apotheker said they have options on table, including licensing.	14:42
RST38h	x29: it will hit the market quite aking to a spittle	14:42
*** croppa has quit IRC		14:42
ab	RST38h, so products are discontinued but development is not yet disbanded	14:42
RST38h	ab: Who will license i :)	14:42
RST38h	it	14:42
RST38h	?	14:42
x29a_	samsung, when they get rid of bada, lol	14:42
x29a_	scnr	14:42
*** x29a_ is now known as x29a		14:42
ab	RST38h, have you seen fake SElop's statement?	14:42
nid0	hopefully someone that can actually put it in vaguely nice hardware	14:42
RST38h	ab: it is pretty much the same kind of "diplomacy" Nokia applied to Symbian and Meego =(	14:43
RST38h	ab: No. His real statements are weird enough though.	14:43
ab	https://twitter.com/#!/ceoStephenElop/status/104295921260572672	14:44
DocScrutinizer	x29a: there's this raster's linux pending from Samsung - got amazingly quiet about that thing lately. Usually raster came here (and elsewhere) on a regular schedule spreading teaser rants about that new acme OS of his/Samsung's to come RSN	14:44
ab	And mjg59 from LinuxCon: "This morning's keynote was on HP's commitment to WebOS. Sucks to be that guy now."	14:44
RST38h	ab: ahhahahaha (about ceoStephenElop twit)	14:46
x29a	docscrutinizer: i dont get samsung. but gazillions into promo and dev of bada, then present quite shitty OS, barely talk about it, infinit long update cycles. y oh y?	14:46
RST38h	Poor Ari...	14:46
RST38h	x29: What exactlu don't you understand?	14:46
DocScrutinizer	according to raster bada is a hickup	14:47
RST38h	x29: They copied Symbian APIs, with graphics stolen from iPhone, Maemo,and Android. They put the result into their feature phones	14:47
RST38h	x29: Because the thing is so horrible to developfor(Symbian!) nobody developed for it	14:47
RST38h	Also, with all the emphasis on Android (Samsung is THE leading Android phone maker), nobody needed Bada any more.	14:48
Nido	I tried to develop for symbian, but they wouldn't give me a key so i could, you know, actually run the programs I code	14:48
ab	My feeling was always that bada is their internal attempt to level different R&D departments and give internal application developers some stable environment to run their apps regardless what OS has won particular product development	14:48
*** marthd has quit IRC		14:48
RST38h	ab: Maybe, but in either case it all got crumbled by the ANdroid	14:49
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		14:49
DocScrutinizer	~seen raster	14:49
infobot	raster is currently on #webos-internals (1h 45m 47s) #meego (1h 45m 47s), last said: ':)'.	14:49
ab	from that perspective bada totally makes sense as it started much earlier than they got to Android -- at allowed to leverage R&D designs which were developed for low end models	14:49
DocScrutinizer	oooooh, on #meego??	14:49
x29a	RST38h: why go that way in the first place? android is suitable for feature phones as well. or whatever proprietary shit they used before. i dont get why they did spend such a huge amount on bada and then let it rott to death	14:49
RST38h	x29a: I am sure you can answer your own question.	14:50
x29a	im afraid i cant, hence the "i dont udnerstand" part	14:51
RST38h	ab: probably had a few competing departments too	14:51
ab	RST38h, they do have, that's my understanding	14:51
RST38h	ab: Android obviously winning because of the Samsung's overall strategy of copying stuff, not inventing it	14:51
x29a	RST38h: and please use your tab key to do autocomplete (full) of my nick, that way i get a highlight	14:51
ab	RST38h, Android is winning for Samsung because they get R&D investment shared with Google and others, doing if not free ride but very close to that	14:52
RST38h	ab: Of course	14:52
RST38h	ab: On the other hand, all android phones look andfeel the same, so there is no brand loyalty or anything like that	14:53
RST38h	ab: Which probably satisfies Samsung, a well known producer of generic goods	14:53
RST38h	But may not satisfy others.	14:53
x29a	ab: you dont get that feeling by copying ios/android and call it bada	14:53
Nido	RST38h: isn't that why "Sense UI" and such get developpd?	14:53
RST38h	ab: that pant-pissing quote, ironically, is coming true	14:54
RST38h	Nido: same "Sense UI" users go to such lengths to disable in favor of Android's default UI?	14:54
x29a	RST38h: that was for you, not ab, sorry	14:55
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		14:55
Nido	RST38h: probably. I'm not saing it is "better", just "not generic android"	14:55
nid0	well, some do. sense ui is actually not that bad, compared to some skins	14:55
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		14:55
RST38h	ab: http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/29/apple-captured-two-thirds-of-available-mobile-phone-profits-in-q2/	14:56
RST38h	ab: check out profits by Android phonemakers	14:57
RST38h	ab: Isn't it cute, how closely they copy the profits of Android Market participants?:))	14:57
ab	x29a, bada started much earlier than Samsung got into Android.	14:58
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		14:58
x29a	but android was there, so it was clearly a decision someone made based on information	14:58
* RST38h sighs at x29a		14:58
x29a	just /ignore me	14:58
RST38h	Obviously unaware of how corporate decisions are made	14:58
*** klasu_ has joined #maemo		14:58
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		14:59
ab	x29a, do you know anything about mobile industry developments? :)	14:59
x29a	no, im an end user, obviously	14:59
chouchoune	what's your point RST38h ?	15:00
chouchoune	there was a political fight at Samsung and the pro-android won ?	15:01
chouchoune	and Bada-people were let to play with their toy to avoid a clash ?	15:02
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC		15:02
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo		15:02
ab	chouchoune, Android is still not ready to go to low-end devices as Samsung understands them, this is where bada helps right now. In future many things will move Android, I'm sure. Of course, if raster wouldn't get his joker played well	15:03
*** hardaker2 has joined #maemo		15:04
chouchoune	ab: I'm not sure about that ... Bada participates in the global believing that Samsung can do things by itself	15:04
chouchoune	if Samsung keeps Bada, they can still say "we can do our own too"	15:05
x29a	its spread and success with the very end-users speaks for it	15:05
x29a	im curious how the 2.0 version will do	15:05
*** vivijim has joined #maemo		15:06
*** TheXception is now known as TheXception\|off		15:08
*** MrPPS has quit IRC		15:09
*** MrPPS has joined #maemo		15:09
*** MrPPS has joined #maemo		15:09
*** TheXception\|off is now known as TheXception		15:09
*** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC		15:09
*** DocScrutinizer51 has joined #maemo		15:09
*** qknight has quit IRC		15:09
*** qknight has joined #maemo		15:10
*** mairas has quit IRC		15:11
*** mairas has joined #maemo		15:11
*** jonne has joined #maemo		15:12
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		15:12
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		15:13
*** muellisoft has joined #maemo		15:17
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC		15:18
*** e-yes has quit IRC		15:19
*** mairas has quit IRC		15:20
*** mairas has joined #maemo		15:20
*** Muelli has quit IRC		15:21
*** otep has joined #maemo		15:25
*** otep_ has quit IRC		15:25
*** macmaN has quit IRC		15:26
*** mairas has quit IRC		15:27
*** mairas has joined #maemo		15:28
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		15:31
*** script has joined #maemo		15:31
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		15:32
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		15:32
*** jonne has quit IRC		15:32
*** tackat has quit IRC		15:33
*** ErwinJunge has quit IRC		15:34
*** mase76 has joined #maemo		15:34
*** lcuk has quit IRC		15:38
*** setanta has joined #maemo		15:42
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		15:42
*** lcuk has quit IRC		15:42
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		15:42
*** x29a has quit IRC		15:42
*** x29a has joined #maemo		15:47
*** x29a has joined #maemo		15:48
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		15:48
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo		15:55
*** tackat has joined #maemo		15:55
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		15:56
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		15:57
*** lxp has quit IRC		15:57
*** schend has quit IRC		15:59
*** InvalidHandle has quit IRC		16:00
*** _berto_ has quit IRC		16:03
*** lcuk has quit IRC		16:04
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		16:04
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		16:07
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo		16:08
*** larsivi has quit IRC		16:09
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC		16:10
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		16:12
*** chenca has joined #maemo		16:14
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		16:14
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		16:15
*** lcuk has quit IRC		16:15
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		16:15
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		16:18
*** Roomerlol has quit IRC		16:21
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC		16:21
*** apoi_ has quit IRC		16:22
*** javispedro has joined #maemo		16:25
*** c2p has quit IRC		16:26
*** apoi has joined #maemo		16:28
*** mece has quit IRC		16:30
LarsN	villager: AYT?	16:31
*** Sazpaimon_ has joined #maemo		16:36
*** th3_4zarado has joined #maemo		16:37
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC		16:37
*** GNUtoo\|laptop has joined #maemo		16:39
*** klasu_ has quit IRC		16:39
*** cpscotti has joined #maemo		16:41
*** deimos has quit IRC		16:45
*** mitsutak_ has joined #maemo		16:46
*** tackat has quit IRC		16:47
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		16:49
*** Gh0sty_ has joined #maemo		16:52
*** marthd has joined #maemo		16:53
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC		16:54
*** Gh0sty_ is now known as Gh0sty		16:54
*** tackat has joined #maemo		16:54
ruskie	http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/HP-pulls-plug-on-WebOS/ <-- erm	16:54
jacekowski	ruskie: that was expected	16:55
ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/19/apple_samsung/ <-- you're joking right?	16:56
jacekowski	nope	16:56
nid0	I dearly hope whatever court that letter was sent to sees sense and gives apple a big giant get fucked	16:57
nid0	and that samsung stop all parts supplies to apple	16:57
*** rcg has quit IRC		16:58
ruskie	nid0, that last part would be a tad hard... contracts and all that ya know	16:58
Robot101	you'll probably find apple already switched suppliers before sending the letter :P	16:59
nid0	im sure any half decent lawyer could conjure up a force majeure clause to allow samsung to get out of the contracts when apple are suing samsung over devices using their own parts	16:59
Robot101	that's not force majeure	16:59
nid0	read what I said	17:01
jacekowski	well, contracts last only for so long	17:01
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		17:01
jacekowski	and after they do something like that to samsung they other manufacturers may not want to sign new one	17:01
*** drj_cro has quit IRC		17:01
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		17:02
nid0	there also arent all that many manufactures going that can supply the high-value parts samsung do in the volumes they do, so apple's list of alternatives is probably thin to begin with	17:02
jacekowski	TI can do it	17:03
*** cpscotti has quit IRC		17:03
*** marthd has quit IRC		17:04
pavi	does everyone have a very disgusting front camera on n900 ?	17:08
*** net-split has joined #maemo		17:08
pavi	I used a app called mirror	17:08
jacekowski	yeah, it's crap	17:08
jacekowski	nobody uses it	17:08
pavi	People started teasing me saying even 90's wont have that bad camera	17:08
jacekowski	n900 has only one camera	17:08
jacekowski	front camera	17:08
jacekowski	back *	17:09
jacekowski	thing on the front is just a toy	17:09
nid0	but then, 2 years ago was around the time a lot of other smartphones didnt even include front cameras, so although it's shit at least it's there	17:10
*** petteri has quit IRC		17:11
jacekowski	it's a toy not a camera	17:11
*** marthd has joined #maemo		17:12
LarsN	does anyone know if there's an up to date set of instructions for using the extras-devel version of sync-evolution (which now supports CalDav?)	17:13
*** klasu_ has joined #maemo		17:14
*** cpscotti has joined #maemo		17:15
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		17:16
*** baraujo has joined #maemo		17:21
*** th3_4zarado has joined #maemo		17:21
*** petteri has joined #maemo		17:22
*** th3_4zarado has left #maemo		17:23
*** Jucato has quit IRC		17:26
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		17:26
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		17:28
*** jpe has joined #maemo		17:29
villager	LarsN: you should probably have explained what "ayt" means, anyway	17:31
LarsN	villager: sorry, Are You There :)	17:31
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake		17:31
* LarsN made a poor assumption that the term we use in the office was in the standard lexicon :)		17:31
* LarsN isn't very smart apparently.		17:31
*** mc_teo has joined #maemo		17:32
*** mortenvp has quit IRC		17:33
villager	LarsN: well, I guess I'm here... (not there...)	17:33
LarsN	villager: heh. Is there an updated set of docs on how to "start from nothing" and end up with a working caldav sync?	17:34
LarsN	a lot of the things I'm reading date back over a year, and it's obvious things have changed quite a bit.	17:34
villager	LarsN: have you installed the syncevolution-frontend also? makes stuff easier (provided it works)	17:35
*** renatofilho has quit IRC		17:35
LarsN	villager: I have not. I suppose I can do that now though :)	17:35
villager	there was a new syncevolution release yesterday with some caldav bugfixes, I suppose i'll try to put that into extras-devel soon	17:36
villager	but you can set it up now anyway	17:36
LarsN	I'll grab the front end and see if that makes life somewhat less confusing	17:36
LarsN	villager: that should sync with google calendars as well as things like SOGo I'd assume?	17:37
*** mitsutak_ has quit IRC		17:37
nid0	if you just want google calendar sync, erminig's prolly the easiest option	17:37
villager	LarsN: yeah, the frontend gives you a nice gui and a helpful wizard for setting up syncml and caldav stuff	17:38
*** jhb has quit IRC		17:38
villager	LarsN: there's a google calendar template the wizard allows you to use, yes	17:38
LarsN	awesome.	17:38
*** bugzy has joined #maemo		17:39
LarsN	I'll let you know if I run into any strange problems once I get things updated enough to install.	17:39
edheldil	villager: what is the best option to use iCal files available over https and webdav?	17:42
*** renato has joined #maemo		17:43
*** klasu_ has quit IRC		17:43
villager	nid0: I think he wanted other caldav servers as well (SOGo)... can erminig handle those, or just google?	17:43
*** e-yes has quit IRC		17:44
nid0	it's just google unfortunately	17:44
*** Jucato_ has joined #maemo		17:46
*** Jucato has quit IRC		17:46
*** radiofree has quit IRC		17:47
edheldil	any chance for just iCal files? I use them with Thunderbird ...	17:48
villager	edheldil: on n900, I guess the syncevolution (version 1.1.99.x) is the only option I know of for webdav	17:48
edheldil	thank you	17:48
villager	edheldil: for just ical over https, I don't know of any way to do it	17:50
villager	(well, the syncevolution command-line interface has a way of importing an ical, I think, but it's not the most elegant way...)	17:51
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		17:51
*** klasu_ has joined #maemo		17:52
edheldil	villager: it's webdav over https sorry. So no problem	17:52
*** Jucato_ has quit IRC		17:55
*** x29a has quit IRC		17:58
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo		17:58
*** x29a_ has quit IRC		17:59
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo		17:59
*** thomastp has joined #maemo		18:07
*** Maggan has joined #maemo		18:11
*** rcg has joined #maemo		18:18
*** Necc has joined #maemo		18:20
*** ghostcube has joined #maemo		18:21
*** zap_ has quit IRC		18:23
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		18:25
*** mairas has quit IRC		18:29
*** mairas has joined #maemo		18:30
*** marthd has quit IRC		18:34
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		18:35
*** jpe has quit IRC		18:37
*** mairas has quit IRC		18:39
*** mairas has joined #maemo		18:39
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		18:40
*** celesteh has quit IRC		18:41
*** rm_you\| has joined #maemo		18:41
*** rm_you\| is now known as rm_you\|airport		18:41
*** macmaN has joined #maemo		18:42
*** klasu_ has quit IRC		18:42
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		18:43
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		18:43
*** mairas has quit IRC		18:48
*** jhb has joined #maemo		18:48
*** divan has quit IRC		18:51
*** mairas has joined #maemo		18:51
*** jack_lt has quit IRC		18:58
*** jhb has quit IRC		18:59
*** antman89691 has joined #maemo		18:59
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		19:01
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		19:04
*** antman89691 has quit IRC		19:04
*** antman8969 has joined #maemo		19:05
*** idont has joined #maemo		19:05
*** mairas has quit IRC		19:05
*** mase_76 has joined #maemo		19:08
*** antman8969 has quit IRC		19:09
*** Mousey has joined #maemo		19:09
*** Jucato_ has joined #maemo		19:10
*** mase76 has quit IRC		19:11
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo		19:11
*** Andy80 has quit IRC		19:11
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo		19:11
*** antman8969 has joined #maemo		19:11
*** Jucato_ has quit IRC		19:14
*** Mousey has quit IRC		19:15
*** antman8969 has quit IRC		19:19
*** piggz has quit IRC		19:19
*** Mousey has joined #maemo		19:20
*** jhb has joined #maemo		19:23
LarsN	nothing quite like sym linking /var/cache/apt/archives to /media/mmc1/archives so you can dist-upgrade	19:26
LarsN	lots of left over cruft from previous installs. I suppose I should have done the two step re-flash.	19:26
*** celesteh has quit IRC		19:28
javispedro	dist-upgrade to what?	19:29
javispedro	you should not dist-upgrade maemo	19:29
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		19:29
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		19:29
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		19:29
*** rm_you\|airport has quit IRC		19:31
*** licensed has joined #maemo		19:32
*** licensed has joined #maemo		19:32
*** casketizer has joined #maemo		19:33
casketizer	prolly not the best chan to ask this....but here goes	19:34
casketizer	anyone got an opinion whats better....geforce 555m or ati hd 6550 ?	19:34
casketizer	tryin to decide on new lapdog	19:34
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		19:36
*** x29a_ has quit IRC		19:37
*** Guest17739 has quit IRC		19:37
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		19:39
*** andre__ has quit IRC		19:39
*** liar has joined #maemo		19:40
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		19:40
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		19:40
*** Termana\|rdlBNC has joined #maemo		19:40
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		19:43
psycho_oreos	why don't you try asking that in ##hardware channel?	19:45
*** klasu_ has joined #maemo		19:51
*** dotblank has joined #maemo		19:51
*** jonne has joined #maemo		19:53
*** lcuk has quit IRC		19:56
*** C-S-B has quit IRC		19:57
*** eMHa has quit IRC		19:57
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle		20:01
*** Primes has joined #maemo		20:01
Primes	hi i have a problem with apps / repository on maemo	20:02
*** zap has joined #maemo		20:03
fusi	haha	20:04
fusi	n8 or e7 is what nokia care will replace my n900 with	20:04
fusi	if i send it in for repair	20:05
*** pdz- has joined #maemo		20:05
fusi	f... that.	20:05
casketizer	usb ?	20:06
*** pdz- has quit IRC		20:06
fusi	yep	20:06
casketizer	;(	20:06
Sicelo	someone, lupine_85, was able to get them to give him an N900 :)	20:06
NIN101	some people here demanded an N900, and got one finally. Other take the N8 or E7 and sell it and rebuy an N900.	20:06
casketizer	yea id take e7 buy 2 n900	20:06
fusi	well i sure as shit aint gona be fobbed off with sdome lesser device	20:06
lupine_85	fusi, they will replace it with an N900	20:07
lupine_85	you just have to insist	20:07
fusi	thanks, will do	20:07
lupine_85	and potentially threaten small claims	20:07
Primes	demand it. or sell the n8 get n900	20:07
lupine_85	don't do that	20:07
fusi	i will demand	20:07
casketizer	u can get 400-500eu for new e7	20:07
fusi	want a working n900	20:07
lupine_85	if you accept->sell->buy, you could well end up with one lacking any warranty at all	20:07
casketizer	buys u 2- refurbished n900	20:07
fusi	not a sdecond hand one either	20:07
*** pdz has joined #maemo		20:07
casketizer	2+	20:07
lupine_85	so when it breaks later, you're left with no remedy	20:08
NIN101	E7 on amazon.de : 360 €, don't think so casketizer.	20:08
fusi	calling them again now	20:08
lupine_85	fusi, are you in the EU?	20:08
fusi	uk	20:08
lupine_85	good stuff	20:08
lupine_85	you're covered by a 2-year european limited warranty	20:08
casketizer	i sold one for 427 on egay 2-3weeks ago	20:08
fusi	pretty sure we've got laws for this sort of stuff yea	20:09
lupine_85	it stipulates a repair or replacement within a reasonable timeframe	20:09
lupine_85	on top of your SoGA rights	20:09
lupine_85	important is that it's just "replacement"	20:09
Primes	i was installing apps with fast app mgr. out of disk hung it. now ndg is half installed. app man cant remove it. fapman wants to update it but then hangs. aptget remove or purge can't lose it either. ideas?	20:09
fusi	mmm	20:09
casketizer	they can give u an equivalent if they are out of n900, no law will help u there	20:09
lupine_85	http://europe.nokia.com/support/repair-and-recycle/european-limited-warranty	20:09
fusi	e7 is not an equivalent	20:09
casketizer	and for them e7>n900	20:09
lupine_85	casketizer, as long as it's actually an equivalent, that's fine	20:09
Primes	if they cant replace it try ask for cheque	20:10
lupine_85	to be an equivalent, it would need to be running maemo, and have a hardware keyboard	20:10
casketizer	dream on	20:10
lupine_85	casketizer, I did this earlier this month	20:10
lupine_85	I have a new N900 from nokia care as a result	20:10
casketizer	eu laws are not that good when it comes hard on hard	20:10
Primes	ask them for equivalent n950 lol	20:10
lupine_85	this is a warranty	20:10
fusi	where r u lupine_85 ? france	20:11
fusi	?	20:11
lupine_85	UK	20:11
fusi	ah	20:11
fusi	folloiwng ur lead	20:11
lupine_85	casketizer, would you accept a washing machine as a replacement for a washer-dryer?	20:11
fusi	2secs nokia on phone	20:11
lupine_85	just on the grounds that it's a newer model?	20:11
lupine_85	if it's missing advertised features, it is not a replacement	20:11
casketizer	well if u get nokia to give u an n900 fine, but dont assume u can win in any eu court if they say they have none and offer u an e7	20:11
fusi	what if id bought thousands of poundsworth of software for the n900 ;p	20:11
fusi	where weould i be then eh	20:12
lupine_85	casketizer, of course you could win in court	20:12
casketizer	dream on	20:12
lupine_85	it's very clear-cut, merely on the terms of the warranty they've agreed	20:12
lupine_85	casketizer, so would you accept a washing machine as a replacement for a washer-dryer?	20:12
casketizer	read the fine print	20:12
lupine_85	I did	20:12
lupine_85	I read the whole thing carefully	20:12
casketizer	there are avaiabilityx excuses in the warranty	20:12
lupine_85	nowhere is "replacement" made into "replacement at nokia's discretion"	20:12
lupine_85	read it yourself	20:13
casketizer	i did	20:13
lupine_85	so refer to me a paragraph	20:13
lupine_85	because we obviously have differeing views on what it says	20:13
lupine_85	fusi, my case ended up being referred to their escalations, who referred it to their manager, who got an N900	20:13
casketizer	i dont have it handy and im too lazy to look it up...	20:14
lupine_85	and as the Nokia guy in escalations said, casketizer, "you're entirely in the right, I won't try to argue"	20:14
lupine_85	casketizer, I linked to it a couple of minutes ago	20:14
casketizer	but i have seem them actually win such cases. i used to work in customer protection	20:14
lupine_85	casketizer, so link me to the relevant case law	20:14
casketizer	lupine i read it in german	20:15
lupine_85	I can translate	20:15
lupine_85	link me	20:15
*** InvalidHandle has joined #maemo		20:15
lupine_85	they have a simple legal obligation to provide a replacement, and it's easy - trivial - to demonstrate that an E7 is not a replacement for an E7	20:15
casketizer	im not gonna send u /dev/bull. believe what u must....	20:15
lupine_85	erm, N900	20:15
casketizer	./dev/null	20:15
casketizer	lol	20:15
lupine_85	casketizer, you seem to be avoiding the washer / washer-dryer analogy	20:15
lupine_85	maybe you could expand on whether you'd accept the washing machine or not	20:15
psycho_oreos	lupine_85, are you also available on the tmo forum?　there's a bloke on the forum whom lives in UK and I don't know if he has any chance of getting his N900 back or a replacement N900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75899	20:15
casketizer	im avoiding the whole argument	20:15
Primes	you were in a close protection team? or as in mafia protection racket	20:16
psycho_oreos	and at this point in time casketizer is doing nothing more than spreading FUD	20:16
lupine_85	psycho_oreos, I do	20:16
lupine_85	I shall respond	20:16
Primes	i would accept a new fitted kitchen	20:17
psycho_oreos	lupine_85, just giving you a heads up　:)　I don't live in the UK　so I don't know what laws do apply over there :)	20:17
casketizer	there have been long discussions on tmo on this subject. read there. im not gonna start it over here	20:17
*** ErwinJunge has joined #maemo		20:18
Primes	any idea how to fix my fapman hanging problem?	20:18
*** onen\|openBmap has joined #maemo		20:18
psycho_oreos	recall and undo what you did last?	20:18
*** schend has joined #maemo		20:19
Primes	last i used fapman to install apps but ran out of disk space.	20:19
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		20:19
Primes	appman cant remove it. fapman wants to update it but cant	20:20
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		20:20
Primes	i made plenty space by uninstall some games	20:20
psycho_oreos	hmm I think I've ran into a similar issue but I didn't have fapman hanging, it just fails to work or something.	20:20
Primes	i was asked to do a dpkg --configure -a	20:21
psycho_oreos	HAM can't remove what?	20:21
Primes	that made appman happy	20:21
psycho_oreos	yeah and did you do that?	20:21
Primes	ndg is the troublesome app	20:21
psycho_oreos	ndg?	20:21
Primes	some nokia data entry thing	20:22
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		20:22
*** lcuk has quit IRC		20:22
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		20:22
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake		20:23
Primes	like use your nokia for data entry form filling. i guess like surveys in the street	20:23
*** hiemanshu has quit IRC		20:23
*** jhb has quit IRC		20:23
*** hiemanshu has joined #maemo		20:24
*** hiemanshu has joined #maemo		20:24
*** hiemanshu has quit IRC		20:24
*** hiemanshu has joined #maemo		20:25
*** hiemanshu has joined #maemo		20:25
psycho_oreos	hmm ok and so you've removed some games, have you checked to see how much free space you have left in both rootfs and /home/opt?	20:25
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		20:27
Primes	yes plenty	20:27
psycho_oreos	how much exactly is plenty?	20:28
DocScrutinizer	casketizer: if you're too lazy to prove your point, then please STFU	20:28
Primes	nrg is about 10 mb. i cleared over 150	20:28
Primes	ndg is listed in appmgr but refuse to uninstall	20:29
psycho_oreos	so you tried to manually uninstall?	20:29
Primes	in fapman it is not shown as install or uninstall. but when i update any app it adds the nrg update and hangs trying	20:30
*** nox- has joined #maemo		20:30
*** tackat has quit IRC		20:30
psycho_oreos	I meant manually uninstalling by using command line tools like apt-get, dpkg, etc	20:30
Primes	aptget remove or purge cant either	20:31
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		20:31
Primes	how to remove using dpkg?	20:31
psycho_oreos	and its reasons? use pastebin if its more than 3 lines	20:31
Primes	aptget says: the pacage ndg needs to be reinstalled but i cant find an archive for it	20:33
*** klasu_ has quit IRC		20:33
Primes	fapman may have more repos configured	20:34
psycho_oreos	so try reinstalling it (no need to find the archive for it)　and then uninstall it	20:34
Primes	so i try apt get install ndg	20:34
*** retro\|cz has quit IRC		20:35
Primes	gives identical to previous msg	20:35
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		20:36
*** Mousey has quit IRC		20:36
*** Spydemon has quit IRC		20:38
lupine_85	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1073196&posted=1#post1073196 :)	20:40
psycho_oreos	enable extras-devel in HAM, reload, and then install ndg from there	20:40
lupine_85	a guy I work with has also sent his N900 in for repair	20:40
lupine_85	so it'll be interesting to see if they try to fob him off or not	20:40
psycho_oreos	whoa, long post :)	20:41
*** TimmyT has joined #maemo		20:41
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC		20:41
lupine_85	fusi, do let us know how you get on	20:41
lupine_85	once therew	20:41
lupine_85	once there* are two validated successes, someone should update wikipedia to reflect it	20:41
* lupine_85 is somewhat verbose at times, it must be said		20:42
*** ErwinJunge has quit IRC		20:42
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		20:42
psycho_oreos	better to be verbose (and long winded) than to be as quiet as possible and leave people wondering ;)	20:43
lupine_85	:p	20:43
luke-jr	AES is broken: http://packetstormsecurity.org/news/view/19719/AES-Crypto-Compromised-By-Groundbreaking-Attack.html	20:44
lupine_85	anyway, I am very happy with my new N900	20:44
lupine_85	it's just a shame nokia aren't continuing on this path with this kind of hardware+software combination	20:45
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		20:45
luke-jr	new?	20:45
luke-jr	how can N900 be new? :P	20:45
lupine_85	not preowned == new	20:45
luke-jr	lupine_85: someone will pick it up again someday	20:45
lupine_85	even if it was constructed a year ago	20:45
luke-jr	… in 5 years :\|	20:45
lupine_85	this'll probably end up in my car, and I'll end up using a tablet + bluetooth headset	20:45
lupine_85	or something	20:45
lupine_85	I hardly ever make calls anyway	20:45
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		20:47
*** klasu_ has joined #maemo		20:48
*** chenca has quit IRC		20:50
psycho_oreos	lol instead of 1 trillion years to break a strong AES cryptography, it'll now take what 20 billion years instead?　;)	20:50
psycho_oreos	err s/20/200/	20:51
*** markinfo has joined #maemo		20:51
*** NIN102 has joined #maemo		20:52
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		20:53
Primes	if there is some flaw we will exploit it	20:54
Primes	we seived some big rsa crypto	20:54
*** GNUtoo\|laptop has quit IRC		20:55
Primes	help me kill a process please. i see the pid in top or htop	20:55
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, fyi you'll enjoy this :D http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1072359	20:56
*** Spydemon has joined #maemo		20:56
psycho_oreos	there's a button called `k' you hit it and depending on which you use you get asked to either input or select which signal	20:56
fusi	Primes: kill [pid]	20:56
fusi	iirc?	20:57
fusi	or killall name	20:57
*** ced117 has quit IRC		20:58
psycho_oreos	actually correction, top doesn't do that, it seems like its broken under maemo, but htop still functions normally	20:58
psycho_oreos	fusi, there's also pkill	20:58
Primes	i know k key in top in opensuse but seems not working here	20:58
*** angelox\|laptop has joined #maemo		20:58
fusi	type it in a copnsole window	20:58
psycho_oreos	I've noted that, use htop instead	20:59
* angelox\|laptop says wow!,cause he needs put a small paper in back of the his n900 battery to the device don't turn off!		21:01
psycho_oreos	that didn't make sense	21:01
psycho_oreos	maybe you meant to say that you placed a small piece of paper in the back of your N900 near the battery compartment to prevent the device from turning off?	21:02
angelox\|laptop	yes!	21:02
angelox\|laptop	bad english,very sorry! :(	21:03
*** casketizer has quit IRC		21:03
Primes	ok killed the fapman thanks	21:04
*** fecub has joined #maemo		21:04
psycho_oreos	it sounds like you've been taking your battery out too many times, hence the battery has a loose fitting on the N900. Its probably similar to my case with my old N95-1	21:04
*** Necc has quit IRC		21:05
SpeedEvil	angelox\|laptop: Take a flat-bladed tiny screwdriver. Gently press both sides of the battery contact in a little	21:05
SpeedEvil	On the battery	21:05
psycho_oreos	hmm I otoh should also try doing that with the battery on my N95-1 lol	21:06
*** schend has quit IRC		21:07
*** Necc has joined #maemo		21:07
*** ghostcube has quit IRC		21:08
*** ghostcube has joined #maemo		21:09
angelox\|laptop	SpeedEvil: Ok!	21:10
angelox\|laptop	A Swiss Army Knife helps too?	21:11
psycho_oreos	that'd might be an overkill, you only needed a tiny flat head screwdriver anyway	21:12
angelox\|laptop	press in this way? --> <--- ?	21:12
*** Ian--- has quit IRC		21:13
angelox\|laptop	that's kind of hard to do :)	21:13
SpeedEvil	angelox\|laptop: yes - like that	21:15
SpeedEvil	It doesn't take much force	21:15
SpeedEvil	it's tiny thin metal.	21:15
angelox\|laptop	let me try boot	21:19
lupine_85	fusi, success ?	21:19
*** NIN102 has quit IRC		21:19
angelox\|laptop	SpeedEvil: Worked,thanks,i did use a needle! :-)	21:20
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		21:20
SpeedEvil	angelox\|laptop: :)	21:20
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo		21:20
angelox\|laptop	I hope i don't need remove the battery again :-)	21:21
DocScrutinizer	angelox\|laptop: pinpoint knife is just fine	21:23
DocScrutinizer	aah needle, also OK	21:24
*** idont has quit IRC		21:24
DocScrutinizer	those spring grips aren't really sturdy	21:25
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo		21:25
*** Primes has quit IRC		21:25
angelox\|laptop	yes,them are hard to move	21:27
angelox\|laptop	so i guess all that battery problem i had was due that battery issue	21:28
DocScrutinizer	quite possible	21:28
DocScrutinizer	a poor battery contact can cause literally all sorts of weird behaviour	21:28
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		21:28
*** flo_lap has quit IRC		21:28
*** jhb has joined #maemo		21:29
*** Tuco11 has joined #maemo		21:29
*** net_split has joined #maemo		21:29
*** Dibblah___ has joined #maemo		21:30
DocScrutinizer	and those contacts HAVE to be really low parasitary resistance, as battery is supposed to deliver heavy spikes of current for GSM TX, like several Ampere	21:30
*** Dibblah___ is now known as Dibblah		21:30
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		21:30
*** paroneay` has joined #maemo		21:31
*** sandst1_ has joined #maemo		21:31
*** mitsutak_ has joined #maemo		21:31
*** nusse_ has joined #maemo		21:32
*** jjo__ has joined #maemo		21:32
*** ieatlint_ has joined #maemo		21:32
* lupine_85 is going to scan and upload the letter he got back from nokia, in case it's useful for anyone else		21:32
*** jben1 has joined #maemo		21:32
lupine_85	"you did it last week, why not today?" is a surprisingly good argument	21:32
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo		21:32
*** jeverling_ has joined #maemo		21:32
*** Trizt_ has joined #maemo		21:33
*** till- has joined #maemo		21:33
*** swc\|666_1 has joined #maemo		21:33
*** jhb has quit IRC		21:33
*** The3_14ed\|r has joined #maemo		21:33
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo		21:33
*** thuttu77 has joined #maemo		21:34
*** qhubekela has joined #maemo		21:34
*** Shapeshi1ter has joined #maemo		21:34
marmoute	lupine_85: whar's this letter ?	21:34
*** klasu___ has joined #maemo		21:36
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		21:36
*** cehteh` has joined #maemo		21:37
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		21:38
*** fecub has quit IRC		21:38
*** Spydemon has quit IRC		21:38
*** klasu_ has quit IRC		21:38
*** jonne has quit IRC		21:38
*** dotblank has quit IRC		21:38
*** angelox\|laptop has quit IRC		21:38
*** licensed has quit IRC		21:38
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		21:38
*** rcg has quit IRC		21:38
*** thomastp has quit IRC		21:38
*** mc_teo has quit IRC		21:38
*** cpscotti has quit IRC		21:38
*** net-split has quit IRC		21:38
*** setanta has quit IRC		21:38
*** vivijim has quit IRC		21:38
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC		21:38
*** alehorst has quit IRC		21:38
*** drussell has quit IRC		21:38
*** Trizt has quit IRC		21:38
*** hurbu has quit IRC		21:38
*** OkropNick has quit IRC		21:38
*** eijk has quit IRC		21:38
*** maybeWTF has quit IRC		21:38
*** Dhraakellian has quit IRC		21:38
*** Dibblah__ has quit IRC		21:38
*** Termana has quit IRC		21:38
*** nusse has quit IRC		21:38
*** yacc has quit IRC		21:38
*** Ionakka has quit IRC		21:38
*** githogori has quit IRC		21:38
*** Shapeshifter has quit IRC		21:38
*** till has quit IRC		21:38
*** paroneayea has quit IRC		21:38
*** Tuco1 has quit IRC		21:38
*** trumee has quit IRC		21:38
*** Pavel has quit IRC		21:38
*** Sicelo has quit IRC		21:38
*** jjo has quit IRC		21:38
*** Sc0rpius has quit IRC		21:38
*** Ex-Opesa has quit IRC		21:38
*** Tscheesy has quit IRC		21:38
*** khertan_ has quit IRC		21:38
*** jeverling has quit IRC		21:38
*** jayne has quit IRC		21:38
*** nomis has quit IRC		21:38
*** Jade has quit IRC		21:38
*** thuttu77_2 has quit IRC		21:38
*** elninja has quit IRC		21:38
*** neal has quit IRC		21:38
*** cehteh has quit IRC		21:38
*** Mek_ has quit IRC		21:38
*** sandst1 has quit IRC		21:38
*** jben has quit IRC		21:38
*** swc\|666__ has quit IRC		21:38
*** ieatlint has quit IRC		21:38
*** ieatlint_ is now known as ieatlint		21:38
*** qhubekela is now known as sicelo		21:38
*** florian has quit IRC		21:38
*** sicelo is now known as Sicelo		21:38
*** trumee has joined #maemo		21:40
lupine_85	marmoute, the one dated 15th august where nokia say "we've replaced your n900 with an n900"	21:42
lupine_85	that'll probably be enough for someone (else - WP:OR applies) to update wikipedia	21:43
*** yacc has joined #maemo		21:44
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo		21:44
*** angelox\|laptop has joined #maemo		21:45
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo		21:45
*** licensed has joined #maemo		21:45
*** licensed has joined #maemo		21:45
*** elninja has joined #maemo		21:45
*** dotblank has joined #maemo		21:45
*** Pavel has joined #maemo		21:45
*** drussell has joined #maemo		21:45
*** khertan_ has joined #maemo		21:46
*** githogori has joined #maemo		21:46
DocScrutinizer	WPwhat?	21:46
SpeedEvil	Original Research.	21:46
*** Ionakka has joined #maemo		21:46
*** Spydemon has joined #maemo		21:46
SpeedEvil	You're only supposed to put stuff you have sources for in wikipedia.	21:46
*** setanta has joined #maemo		21:46
DocScrutinizer	aah	21:46
DocScrutinizer	thnx	21:46
*** alehorst has joined #maemo		21:46
*** APTX has quit IRC		21:48
*** rcg has joined #maemo		21:48
*** APTX has joined #maemo		21:48
SpeedEvil	Which can lead to terrible pages.	21:49
SpeedEvil	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paper_battery&oldid=374246517	21:49
SpeedEvil	For example - is the synthesis of several nontechnical sources reporting and speculating on an item.	21:49
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		21:49
*** xnt14 has quit IRC		21:49
SpeedEvil	I sort of fixed that, it was too terrible.	21:49
DocScrutinizer	:-D	21:50
*** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo		21:51
*** TimmyT has quit IRC		21:52
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo		21:52
*** vi__ has joined #maemo		21:53
*** klasu___ has quit IRC		21:54
vi__	chOWNAGE	21:54
vi__	I am having severe difficulty installing cssu	21:55
vi__	I install the installer	21:55
vi__	but it doesnt show up in the menu!	21:55
*** wam has joined #maemo		21:55
lupine_85	http://lupine.me.uk/img/nokia-n900-replacement.png	21:56
nid0	did you have much of a fight to get that?	21:58
*** petteri has quit IRC		21:58
lupine_85	not really	21:59
vi__	should I add the cssu repo manualy?	21:59
lupine_85	two conversations with the people at the service centre, one with the main care point call centre, then two with escalations	21:59
lupine_85	simple, polite refusal to accept less than they were legally obliged to give at all states was sufficient	22:00
lupine_85	I didn't even have to issue a letter before action, as I told them I was perfectly willing to do (and I was)	22:00
vi__	what would you have done if they said 'we have nae 'n900s left son, how aout a refund?'	22:01
lupine_85	I'd have taken the £500	22:01
vi__	oooh yeah	22:01
lupine_85	that's perfectly fine, and within their rights	22:01
javispedro	they would never give you a refound	22:01
lupine_85	that's what they said	22:01
javispedro	*refund	22:01
vi__	buy a NEW N900 on ebay for that AND get a shit load of change	22:01
lupine_85	I said "it's a replacement, repair or refund". they said "we don't do refunds"	22:01
lupine_85	I said: "Have you heard of statutory rights?"	22:01
lupine_85	company policy is not always legal. it's worth remembering	22:02
nid0	they would in response to a letter from a solicitor	22:02
javispedro	at most they would have told you, "we are out of n900s. wanna wait or want the n8?"	22:02
vi__	you said 'have you heard of n950?'	22:02
lupine_85	javispedro, no, what they said was "you're in the right, we'll do our best to get you an n900 within a commerically reasonable timescale, which expires in 1 week"	22:02
javispedro	after which we force the n8 down your throath.	22:03
lupine_85	no. if they'd not been able to get an N900 within that timescale, they would probably have refunded rather than try to defend their position in court	22:03
lupine_85	not least because their position is indefensible	22:03
nid0	well at that point i'd have hand delivered a letter from my solicitor and small claims summons to them, thetford's not far from here	22:04
*** Guest56039 has joined #maemo		22:04
lupine_85	nid0, letter before action is always polite	22:04
lupine_85	followed by a summons a week later	22:04
lupine_85	and it gets results	22:04
javispedro	lupine_85: they do not have to refund	22:04
lupine_85	javispedro, if they're in breach of contract and it goes to the courts, it's up to the courts to decide what the appropriate remedy is	22:05
javispedro	which probably is to pay you $5 in damages	22:05
lupine_85	not even close :)	22:05
lupine_85	at the point where you reject the E7, nokia has already admitted a liability of £500	22:05
javispedro	plus, if you go to the courts you start that show of "it was not a defect"	22:06
nid0	theyve already admitted defect liability	22:06
lupine_85	no, Nokia have already conceeded that it is a defect at the point where they offer an N8	22:06
nid0	by offering the replacement	22:06
lupine_85	why are you so eager to deny nokia's legal obligations?	22:06
lupine_85	Nokia themselves have told me that I am right and they were wrong	22:06
*** vi__ has quit IRC		22:07
lupine_85	and they sent me an N900 as a direct consequence	22:07
* javispedro notes: as I said.		22:07
lupine_85	also, the speed with which they were able to acquire an N900 - and the pristine condition it's in - suggests to me that they're not actually out of stock at all, they just have an internal policy of trying to get people off them	22:08
lupine_85	not that I can substantiate it beyond that, of course	22:08
nox-	or they bought back stock from shops?	22:08
nid0	I had heard not long ago that nokia were buying back unsold stock from retailers to try to fulfill warranties	22:09
*** vi___ has joined #maemo		22:09
nox-	:)	22:09
lupine_85	that'd be a bit odd for them to do unless they can buy it back at less than the retail price	22:09
*** Atarii has joined #maemo		22:09
*** Atarii has quit IRC		22:09
*** Atarii has joined #maemo		22:09
lupine_85	obviously, their future warranty obligations are reduced by doing it	22:09
vi___	I put my old n900 into the repair shop today	22:09
lupine_85	since if they'd given me £500, I would have bought a new N900 with a new 2 year warranty	22:09
* ruskie knocks on wood... his n900 is still working rock solid		22:09
nid0	if the retailers arent expecting to shift them, buyback price probably wasnt much/any more than their original trade cost	22:10
DocScrutinizer	look it's so simple: Nokia produced X units N900, they sold 90% and kept 10% for the anticipated RMA. It turned out they were wrong as RMA is maybe 30%, so now Nokia is short on N900. They send a paper to all help desks with instructions to try and replace N900 by sth they are not short on, to keep the remaining devices for the customers that are _not_ happy about getting some _real_ phone in swap for that crappy N900	22:10
vi___	I was trying to explain there is a hardware problem, GPIO113 is spazzing out. THe only way to stop it is to change the permissions on the device file in /sys	22:10
lupine_85	DocScrutinizer, so pushing back is the solution	22:10
lupine_85	...if true	22:11
vi___	and the dude was like '...so uh the lock doesnt work?'	22:11
lupine_85	30% seems pretty high!	22:11
nid0	those are obv made-up figures	22:11
vi___	it is so frustrating trying to tell tech support what the problem is without looking like a total ass hat	22:11
nid0	it could as easily be 0.5% and 2%	22:11
lupine_85	nid0, well, in my local circle of N900 owners (sample size: 4) it is 50%	22:11
ruskie	vi___, I more or less gave up on explaining to service people what exactly the problem is	22:11
lupine_85	but that's too small a sample to be useful	22:11
*** marthd has joined #maemo		22:12
nid0	my device is 18 months old and still flawless	22:12
vi___	well good for you sunshine	22:12
ruskie	nid0, same here	22:12
lupine_85	this is where having a friend who works in the place is useful	22:12
nid0	im the only person I actually know personally who owns one	22:12
nid0	so its 0% failure for me :p	22:12
ruskie	it'll be 2 years december 4th	22:12
lupine_85	nid0, our workplace is N900 central	22:12
DocScrutinizer	and if a lot of customers insist in N900 replacements, Nokia might be urged to manufacture another batch of brand new N900	22:12
lupine_85	4 out of 12 stagg have N900s	22:12
vi___	n900, not for noobz	22:12
lupine_85	staff*	22:12
nid0	oh that said, I know a couple of ex-symbian staff that had n900;s	22:12
*** Mousey has joined #maemo		22:12
nid0	dunno what happened to them tho	22:13
vi___	lupine, what the f** you work as?	22:13
lupine_85	(the remainder are a mix of iphone and android)	22:13
lupine_85	vi___, I write code for an ISP	22:13
vi___	aah, techies	22:13
lupine_85	at the moment, we're basically writing another vmware: http://bigv.io/	22:13
vi___	aah, trekkies	22:13
lupine_85	:p	22:13
lupine_85	they're good phones	22:13
nid0	gutted that there're so many n950's going to waste though :<	22:14
lupine_85	well	22:14
*** antman8969 has joined #maemo		22:14
lupine_85	the phone part is terrible	22:14
vi___	nid0: yeah, no shit	22:14
lupine_85	but who uses that?	22:14
lupine_85	:p	22:14
vi___	A whole bunch of naabz have turned up on TMO asking retarded questions	22:14
nid0	I more meant the ones that are still kicking about doing nothing at nokia	22:14
vi___	oh, ok	22:15
vi___	what is hawaii and how the fck did he get one?	22:15
*** piggz has joined #maemo		22:15
*** petteri has joined #maemo		22:16
vi___	no disrespect to the guy, just wondering.	22:16
*** messerting has joined #maemo		22:18
*** klasu___ has joined #maemo		22:19
vi___	ffs	22:19
vi___	#I am trying to install CSSU	22:19
vi___	for n900	22:20
vi___	I add the repo	22:20
vi___	I install community	22:20
vi___	community-ssu-enabler	22:20
vi___	it runs	22:20
vi___	but it does not appear!	22:20
vi___	can somone provide some guidance?	22:21
vi___	it doesnt even create a .desktop file	22:22
vi___	that I can look at to see what it is supposed to eecute	22:22
vi___	^execute	22:22
*** schend has joined #maemo		22:22
*** NIN102 has joined #maemo		22:23
vi___	is anyone here familiar with the cssu installer?	22:24
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		22:25
vi___	what is it's post-inst script supposed to do?	22:25
*** celesteh has quit IRC		22:26
vi___	anyone?	22:27
nid0	no clue	22:28
DocScrutinizer	/join #maemo-ssu	22:28
*** teilzeitstudent has joined #maemo		22:29
*** tackat has joined #maemo		22:32
vi___	-_-	22:32
*** chenca has joined #maemo		22:33
*** antman8969 has quit IRC		22:36
*** The3_14ed\|r is now known as Dhraakellian		22:36
DocScrutinizer	mohammad is offline it seems. He'd probably one of the guys that could actually help	22:39
DocScrutinizer	vi___: cssu is known to bork on a number of non-standard system configs. Esp if you replaced some system stuff that in turn introduces dependency conflicts	22:41
*** mitsutak_ has quit IRC		22:41
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC		22:41
DocScrutinizer	vi___: sorry I never really wrapped my head around how CSSU installer hackerish is cooked	22:42
DocScrutinizer	sth along the line apt-get can't edit repository list, and so can't HAM	22:42
DocScrutinizer	so you install and start a installer (the icon) which in turn edits repo list and then starts HAM again	22:43
DocScrutinizer	s/HAM/apt-get (maybe)/	22:44
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: so you install and start a installer (the icon) which in turn edits repo list and then starts apt-get (maybe) again	22:44
vi___	yes that would appear to be the case	22:44
vi___	however sweet f'all seems to exist in the cssu repos	22:45
*** trbs has joined #maemo		22:49
*** Guest56039 has quit IRC		22:53
*** javispedro has quit IRC		22:53
*** schend has quit IRC		22:53
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		22:54
*** __ric__ has joined #maemo		22:55
*** vi___ has quit IRC		23:00
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		23:02
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		23:04
*** florian has joined #maemo		23:06
*** lcuk has quit IRC		23:06
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC		23:07
*** valerius has joined #maemo		23:07
*** ghostcube has quit IRC		23:08
*** ghostcube has joined #maemo		23:09
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		23:11
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		23:12
*** Smily has quit IRC		23:12
*** wazd has joined #maemo		23:14
*** mookie has joined #maemo		23:14
*** setanta has quit IRC		23:14
*** mase_76 has quit IRC		23:17
*** mesx has quit IRC		23:18
*** chenca has quit IRC		23:25
*** Necc has quit IRC		23:27
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		23:28
*** klasu___ has quit IRC		23:30
*** Guest72660 has joined #maemo		23:32
*** lcuk2 has joined #maemo		23:32
*** rpa has joined #maemo		23:34
*** alehorst has quit IRC		23:39
*** yacc has quit IRC		23:39
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		23:39
*** ced117 has quit IRC		23:39
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		23:39
*** Dibblah_ has joined #maemo		23:41
*** ced117 has quit IRC		23:43
*** Dibblah has quit IRC		23:43
*** fiferboy has quit IRC		23:48
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		23:50
*** ced117 has quit IRC		23:50
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		23:50
*** Spydemon has quit IRC		23:50
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		23:51
*** alehorst has joined #maemo		23:52
*** lxp has joined #maemo		23:54
*** harbaum has joined #maemo		23:54
*** harbaum has quit IRC		23:57
*** lxp1 has quit IRC		23:57
*** Dibblah_ has quit IRC		23:57
*** Dibblah_ has joined #maemo		23:58
*** hannesw has quit IRC		23:58
*** harbaum-n950 has joined #maemo		23:58

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!