| ShadowJK | 5V is more than 4.2, but at 500mA it would take 30-60 minutes before battery voltage reached 4.2V | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you could just plug in then press some key every second and eventually look at screen to find uBoot menu with rubbish chars you need to delete prior to typing the noloboot | 00:00 |
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| angelox|laptop | ok | 00:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | make sure you see screen even if backlight might be off! | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. get good illumination | 00:01 |
| angelox|laptop | wow,only now i did see Nokia's Charger is 1200mA! | 00:01 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: Yep | 00:01 |
| ShadowJK | N900 does not use all of 1200mA from charger | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: yes, it is | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | and no it doesn't use all 1200 | 00:02 |
| angelox|laptop | i see now why it charges so fastly | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3.5h+ is fast? | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 00:02 |
| angelox|laptop | for me,came from chargers that toke 5+ yes | 00:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok then :-D | 00:03 |
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| angelox|laptop | :) | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, more like 2 hours with a fresh battery. Phantom resistance and internal resistance of old batteries makes it more like 4h, yeah :P | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it's not charging with more than 800mA *at 3.8V* any time | 00:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which was more like 700mA used for charging from 5V | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus some system powering overhead | 00:05 |
| angelox|laptop | one last question :-D | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask just ask | 00:05 |
| angelox|laptop | if i let uboot time out,it also 'boots' maemo and charges that 5~10 secs | 00:05 |
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| angelox|laptop | so,why need i do "run noloboot"? | 00:06 |
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| ShadowJK | I wonder if there is some other problem too. What happens after 5-10 secs? | 00:06 |
| angelox|laptop | it reboots | 00:06 |
| ShadowJK | :( | 00:06 |
| angelox|laptop | yes :( | 00:06 |
| angelox|laptop | but at least,on these 5-10 secs it charges a bit :) | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't think it boots maemo? | 00:07 |
| angelox|laptop | yes,ops sorry,it boots maemo's kernel | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't it more like it tries to boot meego? | 00:07 |
| ShadowJK | It might fall back to noloboot if no MicroSD is inserted, I guess | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 00:07 |
| angelox|laptop | no,because i'm without any uSD | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: now if you had installed backupmenu, you'd get a reliable simple charging with just sliding open kbd before maemo boots up :-D | 00:09 |
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| angelox|laptop | :( | 00:09 |
| angelox|laptop | no one told me to install it | 00:09 |
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| rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, FM also works. | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: we all know it usually works, yes | 00:10 |
| ShadowJK | transmitter or receiver? :) | 00:10 |
| rly | Except, it seems that I cannot play without a headphone plugged in. | 00:10 |
| rly | Also, the earplugs don't exactly fit. | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: it needs hp for antenna | 00:10 |
| rly | I suppose everyone buys custom ones? | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 00:11 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, so it is not just my head ;) | 00:11 |
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| rly | DocScrutinizer: is that also the reason that the shape it not a computer compatible headphone? | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: If maemo reboots after 10s that's actually too bad | 00:11 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: (to get actual reception from the headphone connection) | 00:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rly: no | 00:12 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, then what is the reason? | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: any hp cable will do | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's the shape thing anyway | 00:13 |
| rly | Cool, it fits :) | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 00:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | N900 AV is compatible to generic stereo "walkman" headphone "standard" | 00:13 |
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| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: Why? | 00:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because that means there's no proper way to recover from that situation | 00:14 |
| ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, what happened to your electronics stuff? | 00:15 |
| angelox|laptop | and if i flash stock kernel? | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you could try to set R&D mode and disable wd_timers, that *might* fix the reboot-after-10s | 00:15 |
| angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: I've only 3~4 resistors :) | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: thought you can't flash? | 00:15 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: no,i can't | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | though you still might be able to set R&D via flasher | 00:16 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: the thing is,when i plug usb cable with flasher-3.5 running,it automatically boots uboot | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, expected | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | try coldflash parameter set, plus enable-r&d, plus no-*wd | 00:17 |
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| angelox|laptop | but only flashing kernel? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | coldflash kicks in before NOLO even starts to decide it won't obey 'U' | 00:17 |
| angelox|laptop | how should be the command? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | flashing kernel won't even work in coldflash mode on a flat battery I think | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry I got no flasher --help handy atm | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm also away now for some RL | 00:18 |
| angelox|laptop | btw,sorry all these questions,i'm kind of desperate :-) | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 00:19 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: ok,let me try | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: see ~flashing ->coldflash, eliminate the pointers to image file and add the enable r&d instead | 00:19 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 00:20 |
| rly | If I understood correctly, you can also flash only your kernel and keep your installed applications, correct? | 00:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you need to take care of the modules, and those live on / | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | with modules not matching new kernel you'll get a bootloop | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you got alternative directory trees for different kernels' modules on /, you can change kernels without any problems | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui | 00:23 |
| rly | How am I supposed to know which modules I need and where I get these bits? | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | modules are installed via a >kernelname>-modules.deb pkg iirc. You'll find them in /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/ or more generically in /lib/modules/<kernelname_as_of_uname> | 00:25 |
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| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: i couldn't do yet,if i give you flasher-3.5 --help | 00:25 |
| angelox|laptop | * could you help me? | 00:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: see http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode for the parts regarding R&D and watchdog disabling | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | see if that still works | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | with flat battery | 00:28 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 00:29 |
| Atarii | FYI wget is not installed by default | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | no-lifeguard-reset no-omap-wd no-ext-wd | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Atarii: well maybe, but gets installed by one of the pkgs almost everybody installs anyway | 00:30 |
| angelox|laptop | wow | 00:30 |
| angelox|laptop | almost booted up | 00:30 |
| angelox|laptop | i think i did discover how to do the thing | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | --enable-rd-mode --- try that if it works at all | 00:31 |
| angelox|laptop | almost booted up = "I did saw the balls circling(not sure if circling is the correct word)" | 00:31 |
| angelox|laptop | to flash kernel? | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | bouncing? :-D | 00:32 |
| angelox|laptop | yess :-) | 00:32 |
| * angelox|laptop need learn actions in English :-) | 00:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | then if this doesn't work you could still try to add the coldflash parameters to the --enable-rd-mode | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flashing | 00:34 |
| infobot | methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 00:34 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 00:34 |
| angelox|laptop | let me do my magic first :) | 00:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flasher-3.5 -c -h RX-51:<hw_id> -F <FIASCO image> --enable-rd-mode | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5 | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: what's your maemo kernel and what's your (rootfs) system? | 00:39 |
| angelox|laptop | maemo kernel? i don't know,i'm using uboot | 00:39 |
| angelox|laptop | well | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | uboot with stock kenel? | 00:39 |
| angelox|laptop | yes | 00:40 |
| angelox|laptop | ops | 00:40 |
| antman8969 | uname -a | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | and system? | 00:40 |
| angelox|laptop | i guess it's stock | 00:40 |
| angelox|laptop | wget http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/kernel_2.6.28-20103103+0m5_armel.deb | 00:40 |
| angelox|laptop | take from there :) | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | antman8969: nice, but how to do that when system doesn't boot up? | 00:40 |
| antman8969 | oh lol, just came in... | 00:41 |
| antman8969 | a better question might be, did he ever download powerkernel | 00:41 |
| antman8969 | if not, probably stock | 00:41 |
| angelox|laptop | yes stock | 00:41 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: hw_id? | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>The code "RX-51" used in the example is the product code for the N900 device. The <hw_id> is the product HW revision, which is a 4-digit code. Both product code and HW revision can be found from the type label of the device to be flashed. The type label is on the back of the device, underneath the battery.<< | 00:42 |
| angelox|laptop | there's a lot of info... | 00:43 |
| antman8969 | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 00:43 |
| antman8969 | this ? | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: though now we're leaving the domain where I can realy help any more, beetr try to ask jacekowski about coldflashing and related stuff | 00:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 2101 or sth like that | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2100, 2000, 2010... | 00:44 |
| angelox|laptop | only numbers? | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | some 4digit stuff | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yoh | 00:44 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 00:45 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves | 00:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer | good luck :-D | 00:45 |
| angelox|laptop | 0434 maybe? | 00:45 |
| angelox|laptop | thanks :) | 00:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unpacking or listing a fiasco image will show all the valid hw codes | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't think 0434 been one of them | 00:47 |
| angelox|laptop | i see.. | 00:47 |
| angelox|laptop | there's no other code | 00:47 |
| angelox|laptop | :*( | 00:47 |
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| angelox|laptop | and if i don't input any hw code? | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | k fsckng hw-id is NOT on the label | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | try 2100 | 00:50 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 00:50 |
| angelox|laptop | "You have to supply the 2nd image" | 00:50 |
| angelox|laptop | since i've extracted,i'll suply | 00:51 |
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| angelox|laptop | i'll try 2101 | 00:51 |
| angelox|laptop | since there's that at 2nd image,and in a Brazillian website | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# softupd -v --local& | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | [1] 4626 | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# flasher --local -i | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | flasher v2.8.2 (Jan 8 2010) | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Using flashing protocol Mk II. | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101 | 00:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 00:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | one last thing: you of course *could* create a meego uSD with a file in /etc/events.d or /etc/init.d that calls ShadowJK 's charger script (you'd have to add the needed tools as well, namely i2ctools) | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this should just start charging happily when invoked by uBoot | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | (just like backupmenu would, if it was installed in maemo) | 01:02 |
| angelox|laptop | and where can i download that script? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah simple | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/ | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge.sh.txt | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | make sure you adapt the pathnames in there to point to the location where you placed i2cget/set on that meego image | 01:04 |
| angelox|laptop | booted | 01:04 |
| angelox|laptop | well..more or less | 01:05 |
| angelox|laptop | :-) | 01:05 |
| angelox|laptop | backlight worked | 01:05 |
| angelox|laptop | and power on button too | 01:05 |
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| Shapeshifter | boo throttling | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, are you actually using a Nokia wallcharger to power the device?? | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I don't think recovery from deep discharge will work with random PC or alien chargers | 01:07 |
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| ShadowJK | meegocharge.tar or something, iirc | 01:07 |
| angelox|laptop | what's alien charger? | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | not nokia | 01:08 |
| Shapeshifter | angelox|laptop: the thing they used in indipendence day to upload a virus to the mothership. | 01:09 |
| Shapeshifter | s/dip/dep | 01:09 |
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| angelox|laptop | wow | 01:09 |
| nox- | haha | 01:09 |
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| angelox|laptop | i didn't undestand,due my bad English i guess :( | 01:11 |
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| angelox|laptop | DocScrutnizer: Actually,what should i really do,if i can flash normally,flash kernel? | 01:33 |
| angelox|laptop | maybe flash kernel to charge finely | 01:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: yes, flash same kernel you got now, but without uBoot. But then OTOH if device charged then there's nothing wrong with your system | 01:39 |
| angelox|laptop | OTOH? | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | and if it wouldn't charge noramlly, you weren't able to reach a state where you can flash kernel | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~otoh | 01:39 |
| infobot | it has been said that otoh is On The Other Hand. It's YAFA. | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~yafa | 01:40 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, yafa is Yet Another Freakin Acronym. | 01:40 |
| angelox|laptop | ah ok,thanks | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't understand why your system reboots all the time after 10s | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you used a nonstandard charger | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | your battery could actually be damaged, assuming it's been you who claimed there's been red indicator light | 01:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this could delay start of charging significantly, so the battery discharges to a point where device shuts down. This happens prior to actual charging even kicking in, due to the delay caused by defect cell | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | is one of my ideas what's going on | 01:43 |
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| angelox|laptop | i see... | 01:44 |
| angelox|laptop | but there's no more red light | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | but there's been, no? | 01:44 |
| angelox|laptop | yes,once | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a concerning signal | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | this red warning light doesn't show up just for fun, or triggered by a random generator. There's been sth severely odd to cause it light up | 01:45 |
| Shapeshifter | is smokku ever on here? | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen smokku | 01:46 |
| Shapeshifter | ah wait cordia has a chan on its own | 01:46 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'smokku', DocScrutinizer | 01:46 |
| * Shapeshifter goes asking alis | 01:46 | |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutnizer: But i don't know what that did happen :( | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/whyt/why/? | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | what* | 01:47 |
| angelox|laptop | why* | 01:47 |
| angelox|laptop | because | 01:47 |
| angelox|laptop | it was working | 01:47 |
| angelox|laptop | :( | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | because battery discharged deep? | 01:47 |
| angelox|laptop | ys | 01:48 |
| angelox|laptop | yes* | 01:48 |
| wmarone | GAN900: you there? | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | LiIon really hates getting discharged deep. Even more they hate staying in discharged state for prolonged period of time | 01:48 |
| cehteh | pussies | 01:49 |
| cehteh | they dont like being overcharged either | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | can stand this better though than deep discharge | 01:49 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutnizer: and if i take another battery (not from N900) only to flash n900? | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | should work, but won't fix a single problem | 01:50 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 01:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above I don't see how's your system broken in any way. Doesn't need flashing then | 01:50 |
| angelox|laptop | atm,i would try everything :( | 01:50 |
| angelox|laptop | i'd only like to flash Maemo | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | you *got* a working maemo system, no? | 01:51 |
| angelox|laptop | to do ~flatbatrecover | 01:51 |
| angelox|laptop | when? | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, there's a bit of a nuisance with uBoot and flatbatrecover, but nothing serious as far as I can tell right now | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | you said you almost booted your maemo system? Then reflashing it won't change that behaviour I'd say | 01:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: I seriously suggest you do yourself a favour and buy a gift for you: a spare battery so you can swap :-D | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can get cheap batteries for sth like 8$ that work not that bad at all | 01:54 |
| angelox|laptop | ok :-) if i find one to n900 | 01:55 |
| angelox|laptop | but..if i buy a table charger? | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | then if you have same problems with that new battery, you may consider reflashing, or better try investigating what's wrong with charging in maemo, or why it reboots at all | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but for now I tend to blame your battery to be broken to a point where it becomes hard to skip over the charging gap between flatbatrecover (steady amber) and the point in time of booting maemo where bme kicks in and continues with decent charging | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | as mentioned before you might want to install backupmenu of robbiethe1st, which has shadowjk's charging script and gets started very early in maemo bootup process if the kbd is open | 01:58 |
| angelox|laptop | there's someway to install with device powered off? :-) | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | so the charging gap time becomes really really short, and also the charging script is a bit brute force compared to bme and thus starts charging way quicker by itself | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, there's no way to install that to maemo proper | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you could do a similar thing for meego on uSD, as mentioned above | 02:00 |
| angelox|laptop | yes,i'm downloading a image | 02:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but honestly this is not really a software problem, it somehow feels like broken hardware | 02:01 |
| angelox|laptop | :( | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | which only partially could get fixed by special sw hacks to counteract the rot cause which probably is a broken battery cell | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/rot/root/ | 02:02 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: which only partially could get fixed by special sw hacks to counteract the root cause which probably is a broken battery cell | 02:02 |
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| angelox|laptop | i don't like my N900 no more | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | as I understand it there is a protection circuit in Nokia batteries that "cuts the wire" when battery gets discharged too deeply, but that circuit is configured to prevent battery fire and explosion that could result from deep discharge. It's not built to keep battery intact and sane regarding normal function as a power source | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you *smehow* managed to keep N900 sucking power from battery despite the voltage dropped to 3.3V, then eventually this circuit would kick in and cause the battery to expose 0.0V on the terminals. This can cause bme and/or NOLO to detect a battery with no voltage and shine up the red error signal | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 sucking battery power beyond sane limits might get caused by hard shutdown, when some autonomous subsystems still stay on as main processor had no time to tell them to shutdown | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it also may get caused by somebody/sth frequently trying to boot system despite battery is empty. E.G you have the device in your pocket and while walking the power button gets pressed for each step you do | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | but there are also batteries that were simply defective from beginning and just break down after a few dozen charging cycles | 02:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | wmarone, pong. | 02:11 |
| ShadowJK | why did you install uboot? | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: so again: do your self a favour - buy yourself a gift (maybe for your last or your next birthday, or just for celebrating next sunday) get a spare battery | 02:12 |
| angelox|laptop | my battery is showing 3.0V | 02:12 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing to blame N900 for - yet | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you'll have more fun if you continue to like it ;-D | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | also nothing really wrong with uBoot as far as I can tell for now | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | only issue with uBoot: it extends the "charging gap" on boot | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously | 02:16 |
| ShadowJK | The gap is about 60-90 seconds with my bad battery and meego | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | we asked jacekowski before if he culd maybe patch NOLO to charge a bit more in hw-based emergency recover charge mode, before NOLO decides to bot up to system | 02:17 |
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| ShadowJK | but meego has no "battery too low: shutdown" logic on boot with low batt | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: just it seems we booted maemo here, not meego | 02:18 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah :P | 02:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and the too low "hysteresis" between NOLO's boot-up threshold and system's shut-down threshold has been mentioned and blamed by speedevil before | 02:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if jacekowski was able to use his super-RE-powers to patch a single byte in NOLO to rise the bootip-threshold from some 3.3V to maybe 3.5V this was a really great fix for issues like this one | 02:21 |
| * ShadowJK can also recover from 2.8V through amber - uboot - run noloboot - maemo:act_dead (or nolo again?) - run noloboot | 02:21 | |
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| ShadowJK | with the bad batt, that has that ludicrous 1.6ohm ir at 2.8V | 02:22 |
| ShadowJK | so it should have smallest margin | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: depending on effective capacity of cell and duration of charging gap, there's always a limit where system will shutdown rather than boot up and charge | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | where "effective capacity" here means the capacity available from (dunno) 3.37V down to 3.30V | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or whatever the both thresholds may be | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also related to Z for the one is threshold during charging while the other is threshold during massive discharge | 02:25 |
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| angelox|laptop | yes...is my battery :( | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | hm? | 02:26 |
| angelox|laptop | another bat from other device it powers on :( | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | you had another battery? | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically it boils down to: if a battery that reaches 3.37V @ 700mA charging isn't capable of delivering 1A for 180s without dropping below 3.30V, you got a problem | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | (numbers a bogus random ^^^^) | 02:27 |
| ShadowJK | so that's 0.07 / 1.7.. ah nm :P | 02:28 |
| angelox|laptop | ShadowJK,no,i got from other phone,a Motorola One | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: red light always means "GET NEW BATTERY!" | 02:29 |
| angelox|laptop | i shouldn't know that :( | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless it's the front-cam-active indicator :-D | 02:29 |
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| angelox|laptop | why did someone programmed that red light? | 02:30 |
| angelox|laptop | :( | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you could try hotswap to try and charge your presumably defect battery | 02:31 |
| angelox|laptop | it's what i'm trying right now :) | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't work without some tricks | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | you know how to hotswap? | 02:31 |
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| angelox|laptop | i'm connecting two batteries | 02:32 |
| angelox|laptop | the N900 itself,and one charged | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | that's kinda dangerous | 02:32 |
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| angelox|laptop | in parallel | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: DO NOT DO THIS!!!!! | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | or rather, very dangerous without current limiting | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | it will FOR SURE kill one of both batteries | 02:33 |
| angelox|laptop | how should i do so? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably both | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: please refer to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57734 | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: obviously you will change a full battery against an empty one though | 02:35 |
| ShadowJK | you'd need something like 2 ohm resistance between full and empty battery, or they kill eachother or explode | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and when ShadowJK says "explode" he means BOOOOOM | 02:36 |
| angelox|laptop | i've no way to power on my n900 with other battery,no one fits | 02:36 |
| angelox|laptop | hahaha | 02:36 |
| angelox|laptop | i'll do this: | 02:36 |
| angelox|laptop | Get a table charger | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | didn't you just say your N900 booted up properly with a motorola battery? | 02:37 |
| angelox|laptop | yes,but both connected parallel | 02:37 |
| angelox|laptop | then you said: | 02:37 |
| angelox|laptop | <DocScrutinizer> angelox|laptop: DO NOT DO THIS!!!!! | 02:37 |
| angelox|laptop | and i'll not do that | 02:37 |
| angelox|laptop | :) | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, get a working battery. Yours is broken. Period | 02:37 |
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| ShadowJK | did it stay on whn you removed motorola battery and left nokia battery connected? | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh fine, so you actually already killed the poor battery even more | 02:38 |
| angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: yes | 02:38 |
| ShadowJK | quick, connect charger then ;) | 02:38 |
| angelox|laptop | a bit of time,before i turn off | 02:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer sighs and returns back to his tedious RL duties | 02:39 | |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: That was for ~5 secounds | 02:39 |
| angelox|laptop | i didn't even booted Maemo | 02:39 |
| angelox|laptop | i was only trying to flash Kernel | 02:39 |
| angelox|laptop | so,i didn't kill my baterry yet :) | 02:39 |
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| ShadowJK | even 0.1 second of that can kill or damage both batteries | 02:40 |
| angelox|laptop | but why could damage? | 02:40 |
| angelox|laptop | i can't understand | 02:40 |
| angelox|laptop | they're plugged in parallel | 02:40 |
| angelox|laptop | can you explain? | 02:41 |
| angelox|laptop | :) | 02:41 |
| ShadowJK | Because the full motorola battery will send ALOT of current to the empty battery. About 4 Ampere. | 02:41 |
| ShadowJK | These batteries are not built to handle 4 ampere current. | 02:42 |
| angelox|laptop | it wasn't full fortunately | 02:42 |
| angelox|laptop | kind of 30~40% | 02:42 |
| ShadowJK | If Li-Ion batteries are at same voltage, then you can parallell. | 02:43 |
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| angelox|laptop | yes,they are | 02:46 |
| angelox|laptop | ops | 02:46 |
| angelox|laptop | ok | 02:47 |
| ShadowJK | your nokia was at 3.0V, your motorola would probably be at 3.6 - 3.8. Not the same.. | 02:47 |
| angelox|laptop | i see... | 02:48 |
| angelox|laptop | but i hope there's a minimal chance of work | 02:48 |
| cehteh | there is a minimal chance for a nice firework | 02:48 |
| cehteh | unfortunally, in most cases it will just die silently :P | 02:49 |
| ShadowJK | this chance will increase with time after subjecting these batteries to this torture :) | 02:49 |
| angelox|laptop | ok. I need buy a battery | 02:50 |
| cehteh | buy 2 ... 1 to try, the other one to fry | 02:50 |
| angelox|laptop | where can i find at least one on Brazil? | 02:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | each second hand mobile phone shop I'd guess | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | as well as Nokia shops, but those are | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | **really* expensive | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno how's customs in brazil, if it's not as bad as in argentina, you may buy some battery on ebay or dealextreme or whatever | 02:58 |
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| angelox|laptop | i still don't understanding how could i broke my battery by plugging the charger | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: and while you're at it, get rid of your broken and now tortured original Nokia battery. As ShadowJK stated it might have severe damage now that can cause really unpleasant effects in the near future, esp if you continue to use it | 03:01 |
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| ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, you change the story all the time. Before you said you connected battery in parallell with another battery. Now that you plugged charger? | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: ooh it died while device plugged in to charger? | 03:02 |
| angelox|laptop | Yes | 03:02 |
| angelox|laptop | let me explain ok? | 03:02 |
| angelox|laptop | first: | 03:03 |
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| angelox|laptop | Today,15 hours,the phone said "low battery". So i did plug the charger,and went to clean my notebook | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a known effect - sometimes the charger detection doesn't work completely, so device doesn't charge but stays on. This results in discharged battery, though I never heard it deep-discharges battery to a point where cell gets damaged | 03:03 |
| angelox|laptop | when i came back,it was powered off with the amber led | 03:03 |
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| angelox|laptop | but after the amber led,i did remove the charger,the battery,put the battery again and it didn't power on | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | so the discharge was due to a known bug in maemo, which occasionally causes charger not detected. The damage done was by cell being weak by birth, and it just needed a normal discharge to make it break completely | 03:05 |
| angelox|laptop | so i really killed my battery? | 03:06 |
| angelox|laptop | or not completaly? | 03:06 |
| angelox|laptop | completely* | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | the resulting bootlooping didn't help eaither, as it further sucked empty the battery rather than charging it | 03:07 |
| angelox|laptop | that means... | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: it's unknown if it is killed completely now, but it for sure is severely damaged and highly advisable to not get used any longer | 03:08 |
| ShadowJK | The battery might not be able to operate properly when very low, it could have been like this always, but you probably never had it go this low before, so you never noticed? | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and conecting it parallel to a charged battery for sure did some additional damage | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | even if it was only for 0.5s | 03:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so get a new battery, and forget about it | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's basically nothing you could've done to prevent this going to happen eventually | 03:10 |
| angelox|laptop | 1 month of use:( | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | except always check if device really signals "charging" when you plug in the charger | 03:11 |
| nox- | is it know what triggers the bug? | 03:11 |
| nox- | (guess ive been lucky...) | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: as I told you more than 3 times now, the battery was dead from beginning. It's really unlikely it would show such defect after 9 months, it's highly likely it shows up during first 4 weeks of usage | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: not really, I think it's a race | 03:12 |
| nox- | ah | 03:12 |
| nox- | so when it happens just replug charger and hope for better luck? | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the sysnodes signal charger is connected, but bme doesn't act accordingly | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 03:13 |
| nox- | ok, good to know | 03:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you can tell easily there's sth wrong as the charger-detected sound is missing when charger gets not detected ;-D | 03:16 |
| nox- | yeah | 03:17 |
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| angelox|laptop | 40 dollars a battery | 03:17 |
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| ShadowJK | too much | 03:17 |
| nox- | o_O | 03:17 |
| angelox|laptop | and it isn't original | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course you also can check any time by looking at bat applet animation, or flashing amber LED | 03:18 |
| angelox|laptop | 160 dollars original one | 03:18 |
| nox- | *nod* | 03:18 |
| ShadowJK | wtf? | 03:18 |
| nox- | o_O!!! | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: WTF, that's as much as I pay for Nokia original BL-5J | 03:18 |
| ShadowJK | is that US dollars? | 03:18 |
| angelox|laptop | yes | 03:18 |
| nox- | taxes? | 03:19 |
| angelox|laptop | Isn't good buy anything in Brazil | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | WUT??? onehunderedandsixty US dollars??? | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, I'll start a smuggling carreer | 03:20 |
| ShadowJK | "Japod BL-5J" is $8.70 on dealextreme.com. It's a good battery. But I don't know if Brazilian customs are evil or not, so better find out first if anyone else has ordered from dealextreme to brazil | 03:20 |
| nox- | what about those (minumum) three scud batteries off ebay that ppl mentioned? | 03:20 |
| nox- | i think they were less than $40... | 03:20 |
| nox- | for three? | 03:20 |
| angelox|laptop | someone would like to gift one for me :) | 03:21 |
| angelox|laptop | haah | 03:21 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, japod is second place on dr_frost's battery review list, after the 3-minimum scud :) | 03:21 |
| nox- | i guess getting three might not be a bad idea if you do it anyway... | 03:21 |
| * nox- not tried yet tho | 03:22 | |
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| angelox|laptop | i've never bought anything at dx | 03:23 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd probably try charge my damaged battery carefully, order a new battery, and use old one carefully while waiting for new one. probably takes a month | 03:25 |
| angelox|laptop | that is what i'll do with a table charger | 03:25 |
| nox- | dx takes a month to deliver? or only to brazil? | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | charge it *very* carefully, and on a flame resistant table | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | nox-, I'm a pessimist. ;p | 03:26 |
| * nox- never bought from dx so i wouldnt know :) | 03:27 | |
| angelox|laptop | for Brazil takes 1month and 1 week~ | 03:27 |
| angelox|laptop | that is what they that i know say | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | delivery from china often takes even longer, also to Germany | 03:27 |
| nox- | heh i guess... | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | it's kinda random. Half the time it takes 1.5 weeks to finland. Other half of times it takes 4-6 weeks. | 03:28 |
| nox- | i c | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably they just send one container ship every 8 weeks | 03:28 |
| nox- | haha | 03:28 |
| angelox|laptop | they would replace only the battery? (warranty) | 03:28 |
| ShadowJK | the battery has 6 month warranty | 03:29 |
| ShadowJK | in europe atleast | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: if you bought the device originally and it's just one month old, yes then there shall be warranty for the batery | 03:29 |
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| angelox|laptop | so should i send to warranty? | 03:31 |
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| ShadowJK | I am guessing that there is no nokia repair shop nearby? | 03:31 |
| angelox|laptop | actually,i don't know any | 03:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | check nokia website | 03:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they have instructions on how to claim warranty repair | 03:33 |
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| ShadowJK | for me, sending it to nokia took 6 weeks too.. | 03:35 |
| angelox|laptop | wow | 03:35 |
| Ken-Young | I maintain a Maemo 5 gtk+ app. I want to have that app change its behavior when the window manager shrinks when the user starts selecting a different app. Does anyone know how my app can unambiguously determine when that has happened? I thought I could just detect loss of focus, but that happens when the app's menu is pulled down too. Is there an event or signal I can catch that is unique in this situation? | 03:36 |
| Ken-Young | s/shrinks/shrinks the app/ | 03:36 |
| infobot | Ken-Young meant: I maintain a Maemo 5 gtk+ app. I want to have that app change its behavior when the window manager shrinks the app when the user starts selecting a different app. Does anyone know how my app can unambiguously determine when that has happened? I though... | 03:36 |
| angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: I've found two on their website,but they won't complain about uboot? | 03:38 |
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| ShadowJK | they probably will complain | 03:38 |
| angelox|laptop | so what can i do? | 03:39 |
| angelox|laptop | i'll tell they i've installed a app called uboot-pr13 and i didn't know what it was :) | 03:41 |
| ShadowJK | if there's a shop nearby you could try ask them to charge your battery | 03:42 |
| angelox|laptop | i need to run 7.05 km | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: check if there's some is_visible and/or is_active boolean var available somewhere | 03:50 |
| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, OK, I'll look for something like that. Thanks for the suggestion. | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: if it's clearly the battery that's defect (which is the case here) I'd say you don't need to even bring your N900. It's sufficient to tell the battery doesn't charge properly and doesn't provide as much power as supposed | 03:52 |
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| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: Ok... | 03:54 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer & ShadowJK: Thanks for all help today :-) | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they ask how you determined that, you can tell them you discharged the battery until device shut down, and after that the battery didn't charge anymore respectively the device didn't boot up as the battery wasn't able to support bootup after initial precharge. You tested with a spare battery and that one worked flawlessly with the device, so it's obviously the battery that's defect | 03:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also mentioning the red indicator should tell service dude all he needs to know ;-D | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | red indicator always means battery defect | 03:56 |
| angelox|laptop | i see... | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: if you feel like it, you can printout the last three posts of mine and hand it to service dude ;-) | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | also this: | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ DocScrutinizer | 03:57 |
| infobot | it has been said that docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 03:57 |
| MohammadAG | Ken-Young, is topmost and topmost changed | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: I know it's the way QML works on harmattan | 03:59 |
| MohammadAG | look at HildonProgram | 03:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh, listen to MohammadAG :-) | 03:59 |
| angelox|laptop | it's hard to talk to the dude that would fix my phone,and the attendant (generally) knows that Open-Source is something like a wall charger dissasembled :\ | 03:59 |
| Ken-Young | MohammadAG, Thanks! | 03:59 |
| MohammadAG | I'm alive! | 04:00 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: but i did like your idea! I'll use it probably :) | 04:00 |
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| MohammadAG | QML isn't helping with that last bit | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I'm glad to see you're alive :-D | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and one year older? congrats | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG | oh yeah, I'm 18 now :P | 04:03 |
| * angelox|laptop still 14 :( | 04:05 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: seen what angelox|laptop told us? obviously IL and neighbours aren't the worst places to buy hw - in brazil they call up USD160 for a BL-5J :-O | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | I wish I could be 14 again | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | would change lots of things | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | wtf | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | it's like 20 bucks here | 04:06 |
| angelox|laptop | yes :( | 04:06 |
| angelox|laptop | i did pay about USD550 in my N900 | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | well, that's not as bad as the 850 I paid | 04:07 |
| Venemo_N950 | heh | 04:07 |
| Venemo_N950 | that's why I bought it used | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's ridiculous, so a N900 is like 2..3 batteries worth? C'MON Brazil, are you mad? | 04:07 |
| angelox|laptop | i think i'll buy a used BATTERY :-) | 04:07 |
| cehteh | heh | 04:07 |
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| cehteh | search harder | 04:07 |
| angelox|laptop | we need also see the cotation :\ | 04:08 |
| cehteh | Iceweasel can't find the server at www.amazon.br. | 04:08 |
| cehteh | hah :P | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | angelox|laptop, can't you ebay it or something? | 04:08 |
| nox- | reminds me of some `media' shops that have ok prices for bigger things but charge a premium for simple things like cables... :) | 04:08 |
| nze | i just made a full system backup but can't seem to find my sms messages; where do those go? | 04:09 |
| MohammadAG | /home/user/MyDocs/.backup | 04:09 |
| MohammadAG | err, nvm, thought we were talking about the N950 | 04:09 |
| cehteh | you can get an ok'ish 3rd party battery for less than 10Eur (or Dollar) | 04:09 |
| MohammadAG | /home/user/MyDocs/Backups/ I think | 04:09 |
| cehteh | not as good as the original but useable | 04:09 |
| angelox|laptop | MohammadAG: I prefer bringing it to a support center :) at least i won't pay anything (i hope ) | 04:10 |
| cehteh | well few are even better | 04:10 |
| angelox|laptop | hah | 04:10 |
| angelox|laptop | about USD60 a not original one | 04:10 |
| dunelj_ | hi, anybody here have a bit time to change a web application UI to suit N900? | 04:10 |
| angelox|laptop | (now i did calculate with current cotation) | 04:10 |
| angelox|laptop | quotation* | 04:10 |
| cehteh | search for nokia 5800 batteries ... they are the same but that phone is far more common | 04:10 |
| angelox|laptop | USD120 | 04:11 |
| angelox|laptop | :( | 04:12 |
| dunelj_ | the one people recommand cost $14... | 04:12 |
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| angelox|laptop | Should i live in another country? :) | 04:12 |
| cehteh | try another shop i cant believe that price | 04:12 |
| dunelj_ | Thats a common Chinese brand... | 04:12 |
| nze | MohammadAG: yeah thx, what i meant was "where in the backup can i find the texts?" | 04:12 |
| dunelj_ | Chinese own half of Nokia productions. | 04:12 |
| angelox|laptop | cehteh: I'm getting that price at 'MercadoLivre',it's the Brazillian version of Ebay :) | 04:12 |
| cehteh | well try another | 04:13 |
| nze | i was looking through the zip's and just found my calendar data, settings and emails etc | 04:13 |
| nze | but no trace of sms messages | 04:13 |
| angelox|laptop | wow | 04:13 |
| angelox|laptop | if i tell you will not belive | 04:14 |
| angelox|laptop | USD240 Nokia 5800 Original Battery | 04:14 |
| cehteh | where in brazil are you? | 04:15 |
| dunelj_ | how??? | 04:15 |
| angelox|laptop | Sao Paulo | 04:15 |
| dunelj_ | ebay sells free shipping | 04:15 |
| dunelj_ | angelox|laptop: just check some free shipping all over world one. | 04:15 |
| cehteh | it 'might' be that i travel to chile next year with a stop over in sao paulo :P | 04:16 |
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| angelox|laptop | and the taxes? | 04:16 |
| cehteh | prolly i should bring a bag of n900 batteries and sell them for $50 there :P | 04:16 |
| dunelj_ | angelox|laptop: does anything sold on ebay count tax? | 04:16 |
| angelox|laptop | cehteh: So,don't buy anything :-) | 04:16 |
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| angelox|laptop | cehteh: I hope i find you haha :) | 04:16 |
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| angelox|laptop | <dunelj_>: I know peoples that needed to pay about USD50 of taxes | 04:17 |
| * cehteh needs a new n900 battery too soon | 04:17 | |
| angelox|laptop | At first time N900 came here,it was about USD3.000~ | 04:19 |
| angelox|laptop | That's normal? | 04:19 |
| cehteh | wow | 04:19 |
| nox- | mine was like 350eur or so | 04:19 |
| cehteh | 499 eur or so for me .. | 04:20 |
| angelox|laptop | everybody may be thinking "He's lying..." | 04:20 |
| nox- | you just have a crazy gov't | 04:20 |
| nox- | :( | 04:20 |
| angelox|laptop | can i post a link here? | 04:21 |
| cehteh | well here are shops in germany which still list it with 600Eur | 04:21 |
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| angelox|laptop | for everyone that want to see: http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-195538404-bateria-do-celular-nokia-5800-_JM | 04:21 |
| nox- | cehteh, yeah but he seems to be unable to find a _battery_ for less than $50 or so... | 04:22 |
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| cehteh | well, tax luxory products to finance social welfare in a relative poor country isnt that bad imo .. but if this hits your luxus demands its bitter :P | 04:22 |
| nze | when you do a full backup, are your sms messages saved? i guess they should be but skimming through the backup archives i can't seem to find anything | 04:23 |
| nox- | how much r$ is an us$? | 04:23 |
| angelox|laptop | 1 R$ = USD1.5 | 04:23 |
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| nox- | so thats still over 100 $ us... | 04:24 |
| cehteh | 159 Reais = 99,937224 US-Dollar | 04:24 |
| nox- | for a stupid battery... | 04:24 |
| nox- | ok | 04:24 |
| nox- | still :) | 04:24 |
| cehteh | well really search another shop | 04:24 |
| angelox|laptop | sorry | 04:24 |
| angelox|laptop | 1.5 R$ = USD1 :-) | 04:24 |
| angelox|laptop | i see a dx product, Mini Bluetooth, USD1.8 ... | 04:25 |
| cehteh | http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-191317283-bateria-bl-5j-para-celular-nokia-c3-com-frete-gratis-_JM | 04:25 |
| cehteh | come on | 04:25 |
| angelox|laptop | It isn't original :) | 04:26 |
| angelox|laptop | i'm not sure if non-original works finely :) | 04:26 |
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| angelox|laptop | cehteh: i'll buy that one maybe | 04:27 |
| cehteh | http://www.tudocelular.com/Acessorios/noticias/n21750/bateria-2400mah-dobrando-autonomia-nokia-5800.html | 04:27 |
| cehteh | haha | 04:27 |
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| cehteh | angelox|laptop: yes that one is very cheap and has no name on it | 04:27 |
| * angelox|laptop cries about that photo | 04:27 | |
| cehteh | better take some which has some name and doesnt fake nokia | 04:27 |
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| cehteh | this copies are sometimes (often) not as good as the original .. but work more or less, with greatly variyng success | 04:28 |
| cehteh | some have less than 500mah some have more than the original | 04:28 |
| angelox|laptop | i've saw some Nokia N900 fakes phones called "Nockia N902" :) | 04:28 |
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| angelox|laptop | i see.. | 04:29 |
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| cehteh | there are plenty fakes | 04:30 |
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| angelox|laptop | about that USB Bluetooth (USD1.8) i find for 10 Reais, = 15 dollars | 04:30 |
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| angelox|laptop | That's why i want to live in Germany~Russia~United Kingdom :) | 04:31 |
| cehteh | hah here in germany (and most of the EU) electronics are relative expensive too because of taxes | 04:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: nah not really | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | russia is bad though either, at least customs are mad | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOKlA N900 (or Nokla N900) found at chinese sellers a lot | 04:45 |
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| nze | i think i have a problem | 04:46 |
| nze | % ls -lAh mnt/home/user/MyDocs/music/\[PERL76\]-\[2009\]-\[Shackleton\]-\[Three_Eps\] | 04:46 |
| nze | total 2.9T | 04:46 |
| nze | -rw-r--r-- 1 29999 root 2.3G May 24 2035 ⌡%#?╔ƒ╨.?? | 04:46 |
| nze | 04:46 | |
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| nze | about 1.6k lines of trash follow (can be found at http://pastebin.com/HZkVnCkj) | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.nokiaphones.net/nokla-n900-is-similar-to-original-only-by-appearance/ | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nze: LOL | 04:51 |
| nze | yeah apple fanboys, go find me an iphone rocking 2.9T internal storage! | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | looking at >> ls -lAh mnt/home/user/MyDocs/ << I think you really got a problem | 04:53 |
| nze | looks like the internal memory got a few dead spots around there, but that's just my wild guess | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks like you got sth in /mnt that's not supposed to be there? | 04:56 |
| nze | i just mounted my n900's root with sshfs at ~/mnt | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks like you got sth in /mnt that's not supposed to be there? | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~png | 04:58 |
| infobot | i heard png is the Portable Network Graphics format, a format for storing images on computers. Unofficially its acronym stands for ``PNG's Not GIF.'' PNG was designed to be the successor to the once-popular GIF format, which became decidedly less popular right around New Year's Day 1995 when Unisys and CompuServe suddenly announced that programs implementing GIF would require royalties. http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/ | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 04:58 |
| infobot | ~pong | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | nze: I'd say this mount probably went wrong somehow | 04:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might be mounted as fat16 or sth, maybe | 05:00 |
| nze | DocScrutinizer: doesn't seem like it, i similar weird behaviour when i access the folder from the device itself | 05:00 |
| nze | eg i can't rm that folder | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, then I strongly suggest to run fsck.vfat on it | 05:01 |
| nze | gives me input/output errors | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | preferably via/on PC after connecting the device via mass stroage + USB | 05:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway the ls output is so obviously wrong from first to last bit... | 05:04 |
| angelox|laptop | Ok,i'm going to sleep now! Bye Everyone | 05:04 |
| angelox|laptop | Thanks a Lot DocScrutinizer and ShadowJK! | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | MyDocs is VFAT, filesize is limited to 2GB | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: yw, and good luck | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | and good night :-) | 05:05 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: Thanks,tomorrow i will call to Nokia,i'll tell here anything :) | 05:05 |
| angelox|laptop | thanks! Good night to you too! | 05:05 |
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| angelox|laptop | And Good night to [0-9][a-z] people in this channel :-) | 05:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nze: now I see it, is a sshfs mount even supposed to span filesystems? you say you mounted / to local /mnt, and MyDocs is a mount of VFAT on /home, which in turn is a mount of ext3 on /, which actually is ubifs | 05:10 |
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| nze | DocScrutinizer: i just fired up fsck and it finds loads of corruptions | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not surprised | 05:11 |
| nze | i'll try to take care of these first :) | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd take care of unmountig that possibly rogue sshfs mount first | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I guess you already did, otherwise fsck wouldn't really answer politely to a check instruction of that fs | 05:12 |
| nze | ofc. fsck on the device exposed through usb mode | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 05:13 |
| nze | actually fsck is finding so many problems i'm wondering if it'll get me anywhere | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably not | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks to me like (parts of the) whole partiton got wrong offset so directory blocks are not located anymore | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | this can happen if the partition got mounted incorrectly and then something been written to it | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | mounting a whole flash stick as a superfloppy rather than a partitioned HDD is such a typical situation where all offsets are wrong | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | and writing to first "free" block actually would destroy the partition table | 05:17 |
| nze | well the majority of the partition seems quite usable still | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | frequently seen to happen when on mount command the partition is "forgotten", i.e. if you mount /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1 | 05:19 |
| nze | well i'm just running a fsck -n to get an overview of all the errors without manually correcting them all and the output file already counts some 40k lines | 05:21 |
| nze | i guess it'll be a reflash then? | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's the device you run fsck on? | 05:21 |
| nze | /dev/sdb | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA | 05:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | isn't it /dev/sdb1 you want to check? | 05:22 |
| nze | nope | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 05:22 |
| nze | the partition shows up as /dev/sdb | 05:22 |
| nze | which is weird enough.. | 05:23 |
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| nze | maybe this gives any clue? output of parted: http://pastebin.com/duyX3ZWf | 05:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nze: ok, actually on PC it doesn't show up as a partition. It can't as N900 exports the partition as a singulary device | 05:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | parted looks good - if done on PC with device connected as mass storage | 05:31 |
| nze | what to do then? | 05:32 |
| nze | i already made backups, so i guess i could give fsck with auto-correction a shot | 05:33 |
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| MohammadAG | Docscrutemp, I've seen my N900 export both as a block and as a partition | 05:37 |
| nze | any suggestions before i get the heavy tools out? | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, my parted output looks weird too: http://paste.debian.net/126453/ | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | nze: I'd probably run a mkfs.vfat on device | 05:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I think it might export uSD as full device with partitions, while it obviously exports MyDocs as partition only, which means there'll be no partition table on client system, as the data area of mydocs is all it gets to see | 05:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nze: if I had to guess, I'd think your MyDocs got treated by a partitoning tool creating a partition table on first block on MyDocs | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | as if MyDocs was a raw physical device | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I could be wrong though, and your parted output is maybe even more sane than mine, though I dunno what's causing the difference then | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | my mount output: /dev/sdd on /media/Nokia N900 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uid=1000,utf8,shortname=mixed,flush) | 05:50 |
| nze | DocScrutinizer: i never really played around with it a whole lot though and certainly can't remember repartitioning it... | 05:51 |
| nze | 05:51 | |
| nze | fwiw: % parted --version | 05:51 |
| nze | parted (GNU parted) 3.0 | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | connecting it to a windows machine you could partition it by one accidental click I guess | 05:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, that explains a bit: parted (GNU parted) 1.9.0 | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway parted shouldn't know to do sth about MyDocs, as there's no partition table supposed to exist there aiui | 05:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cfdisk: | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Disk Drive: /dev/sdd | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Size: 28995223552 bytes, 28.9 GB | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Heads: 64 Sectors per Track: 32 Cylinders: 27652 | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | no partitions | 05:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/126455/ | 06:01 |
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| nze | yea cfdisk seems to see free space http://pastebin.com/vknWeLeM | 06:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mkfs | 06:31 |
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| jpinx_away | My eeepc has XP Home (in Spanish - preinstalled, so no chance to change language) and debian squeeze installed from downloaded debian-6.0.1a-i386-xfce+lxde-CD-1.iso as dual-boot. I run XP on my eeepc and can plug in my N900 and connect to internet by using OVI and Dtac 2.5gprs. I want to get debian working online through the n900 in a similar way, but I need debian to be online to get it to work, but i can't get there. I only have gprs2.5 on my Nokia n | 06:57 |
| jpinx_away | any and all suggestions most welcome :) | 06:58 |
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| hiemanshu | jpinx: since its a laptop I am using it has wifi, so you can use mobilehotspot that uses your phone as an AP | 06:59 |
| jpinx | hiemanshu: sounds good -- is it something i can get from the usual repos for the n900? | 07:01 |
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| hiemanshu | jpinx: I think its in extra-devel or the normal repo not sure, but yeah, usual repos | 07:01 |
| jpinx | hiemanshu: thanks :) | 07:01 |
| jpinx | as a matter of interest, why does the n900 not show the gprs connected icon when I connect from the OVI suite in XP ? | 07:02 |
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| jpinx | : checking for updates is so slow over gprs :( | 07:08 |
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| jpinx | hiemanshu: cn't find mobilehotspot in extras-devel -- any clues? | 07:57 |
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| jpinx | Argh! needs custom kernel -- I can not risk that :( | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 08:09 |
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| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: I am much too far from support - up country in laos at the moment | 08:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, so you can't flash ? | 08:19 |
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| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: I rely on the n900 100% -- I daren't risk it | 08:40 |
| jpinx | though I might have found a n900 with cracked screen that I can buy cheap to experiment with ;) | 08:40 |
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| doc|home | jpinx_away: tried bluetooth tethering? | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx: while it's obviously up to you to do the risk evaluation and management, I have to say I fail to see the difference between a reflash to fix a (by whatever unknown reason) messed up system caused by powerkernel and a messed up system caused by arbitrary app pkg installation introducing a broken initscript, faulty sudoers entry, or whatever else. In both cases you should be fine with a laptop, a fiasco firmware image, and a proper | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | backup of your data on device | 08:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I never heard of any package that required user to visit a support center to recover the device | 08:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in this regard powerkernel is no different to puzzlemaster or arbitrary fart-apps | 08:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and in fact powerkernel has been used by so many users, it could be considered one of the best tested packages available for N900 | 09:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | regardless of the previous rationale I'd also suggest to go for BT tethering, as hotspot is a way more daunting application regarding possible adverse side effects than power kernel, and I wouldn't use it for tethering of just one single PC, that's overkill | 09:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | also WLAN in "hotspot mode" is a serious power hog | 09:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so unless it's for tethering over distances >5m or for tethering a whole bunch of PCs, I'd no doubt go for BT | 09:08 |
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| robbiethe1st | So... | 09:40 |
| robbiethe1st | Now, I, too have been hit with the infamous usb port problem | 09:40 |
| kerio | :( | 09:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | hw rev 2101? | 09:42 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes | 09:42 |
| lupine_85 | quickly, to warranty! | 09:42 |
| robbiethe1st | XD bwahahahahaha | 09:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Funniest thing I've seen all day. | 09:43 |
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| lupine_85 | non-EU? | 09:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 09:43 |
| robbiethe1st | And, I've voided it 6 ways from sunday already, so... | 09:43 |
| lupine_85 | hrm. you should really lobby your government for some consumer rights | 09:43 |
| psycho_oreos | looks like one more added to the tally of growing 2101 USB woes. | 09:43 |
| robbiethe1st | lupine_85: You assume that we have any power at all over our government. | 09:44 |
| lupine_85 | (over here, you can't invalidate the whole of the warranty just by doing weird stuff to it. if the weird stuff can't have caused the fault, they can't refuse to fix it under warranty) | 09:44 |
| psycho_oreos | hmm if yer warranty is void, and if you're handy with soldering iron. I wonder if you could get away with soldering another USB port from those solder pads underneath the battery area | 09:44 |
| lupine_85 | robbiethe1st, democracy in the US (I'm assuming US and not Belarus :p) is a bit broken, aye | 09:45 |
| lupine_85 | still. [OT], etc | 09:45 |
| robbiethe1st | Fortunately, looks like the port came out cleanly; looks like it didn't break any of the 5 usb connection pads; though one of the mounting pad bits looks like it has a bit of board on it | 09:45 |
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| robbiethe1st | I should be able to go in, heat up the port, clean it off, put a new layer of solder down, and then carefully place it on top of the pads and heat up each pin individually. | 09:47 |
| robbiethe1st | it'll still be quite a bit of a chore, though... | 09:47 |
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| * lupine_85 is treating his like a freshly-whelped pup | 09:49 | |
| robbiethe1st | Eh, it has to do with wiggling side-to-side when removing your usb cable | 09:51 |
| robbiethe1st | I do agree now that filing down the little 'clamp' bits on your cable's a good idea | 09:51 |
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| robbiethe1st | Note that I dropped my N900 many times onto it's cable, no issues. Within a week of a new, tight cable... this happened | 09:51 |
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| robbiethe1st | I have to say... the N900's been one *robust* machine. I've dropped it 4' many many times with barely a scratch; occasionally the back cover will come off, though. | 09:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: Great ( that it's clean) | 09:54 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 09:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Repairing if it's not gets a bunch harder. | 09:56 |
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| robbiethe1st | BRB - new kernel time. | 09:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix | 10:03 |
| infobot | Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<< | 10:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | indeed - that's a much more sane rework | 10:04 |
| psycho_oreos | seriously though, I wonder if the solder pads on the bottom side of that PCB board for USB port be used as regular USB port? | 10:08 |
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| psycho_oreos | I mean lets say in a really really nasty case that the USB port didn't come off cleanly or the person whom tried to fix it did a very poor job of resoldering which screwed up the main microUSB port, would have a second chance with those solder pads on the bottom? | 10:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | So basically, soldering down the USB port at both sides should keep it in place? | 10:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 10:12 |
| Shapeshifter | I think I'll do that even though I don't think I have any problems yet | 10:12 |
| SpeedEvil | that was to Shapeshifter | 10:12 |
| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: REally a bad iea - they have no ESD protection, and are likely to fail in quite short order ue to static | 10:13 |
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| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, interesting, I guess maybe for the ESD protection is to maybe solder another cable back out to some other part of device where it could take the static discharge. | 10:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: It doesn't work like that, you need to add additional components | 10:17 |
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| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, o.O so in essence its best to not screw up the microUSB port then lol | 10:18 |
| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: Indeed. | 10:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | However, you can solder to the nodes that the USB port would normally connect to - at the other end of the tracks, it's just more annoying. | 10:19 |
| psycho_oreos | I saw a thread of some bloke attempting to solder USB from that underside area, don't know how far he got but it was interesting | 10:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The port on the bottom is electrically seperate in some ways | 10:19 |
| psycho_oreos | so I guess it'll be also less likely to be able to use that alternative port to act in the same manner as the main port? :| | 10:21 |
| robbiethe1st | IIRC it doesn't have the static protection | 10:21 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah that was noted earlier by SpeedEvil :) | 10:22 |
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| robbiethe1st | ah | 10:22 |
| psycho_oreos | and it also seems to be missing other components apart from being wired differently | 10:22 |
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| robbiethe1st | So... I just learned that for whatever reason, liquorix kernel 3.0 won't boot anymore, though 2.6.39.x will. It just... won't run with my mdadm raid | 10:23 |
| psycho_oreos | like I said, it was somewhat interesting that there was an alternative port from those solder pads on the bottom side of that PCB. Its just a shame that regardless of how bad the outcome of a broken microUSB port, one cannot use the spare/alternative USB port as a regular one | 10:23 |
| SpeedEvil | You usually can fix to the places the tracks from the notmal poert would connect. | 10:24 |
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| psycho_oreos | *nods* just curiously thinking of alternative options but I guess there probably won't be empty if one really screws up soldering of microUSB port | 10:28 |
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| psycho_oreos | any of you guys happen to own/have access to BH-905? need some information printed on the device (or you can just take a photo of that area and post it up instead for me) | 10:29 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/17/crave_duet_usb_drive_cum_vibrator/ | 10:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=bh-905 | 10:33 |
| SpeedEvil | may be of use | 10:33 |
| psycho_oreos | I wonder how long would that device last, if its being used as both a vibrator (placed where it normally goes) and as a mass storage device lol | 10:34 |
| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, thanks :D checking the link out | 10:34 |
| SpeedEvil | What are you wondering? | 10:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, what ruskie pasted (that link on a fancy chic device) | 10:35 |
| psycho_oreos | or are you referring to that BH-905 query? :) | 10:35 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 10:35 |
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| psycho_oreos | ahh, I need to look at internal pictures of BH-905 (without pulling it apart first of course). For that I need FCC ID which, because of the fragility in the design of that bluetooth headset I had to use sticky tape to hold the plastic in place. Though where I used sticky tape on my BH-905, and over time I managed to cover up those FCC ID numbers | 10:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 10:37 |
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| psycho_oreos | they're quite easy to break, that area specifically. Using that bluetooth headset in a dusty environment doesn't make the situation any better :) | 10:39 |
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| psycho_oreos | I guess if I can't find a single useful picture from flickr, I'll just post a tmo thread instead. I thought about it but I thought had someone owns that same bluetooth headset and is also on here, they can save me from creating yet another somewhat pointless thread ;) | 10:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | I am quite happy to look, if you paypal me the funs to purchase some. :) | 10:42 |
| psycho_oreos | I personally wouldn't recommend it :) It looks nice and rather expensive but at the same time its durability is questionable | 10:43 |
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| psycho_oreos | they (nokia) released a (supposedly) improved version of BH-905, dubbed it as BH-905i. I wonder if they noticed that problem in BH-905 along with random freezes/connectivity issue and addressed it in the improved version or not | 10:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | definitely no dice with flickr images, just went through all 12 pages without any luck. | 10:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | :/ | 10:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | I should have bookmarked/noted that FCC ID prior to sticking the tape over it. | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I missed robbiethe1st and he missed ~usbfix | 10:52 |
| psycho_oreos | he'll be back.. hopefully :) | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'll miss him again, as I have to go afk now | 10:53 |
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| psycho_oreos | well I'll pass the message on if he comes back and I happen to still be around :) btw you wouldn't happen to own BH-905 would you? | 10:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | bah looks like he's already afk oh well | 10:59 |
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| vi__ | HELP!!!! | 11:05 |
| vi__ | my n900 has gone bananas | 11:05 |
| vi__ | bar-nar-nars | 11:05 |
| vi__ | the microswitch for the lockslider must be worn out | 11:06 |
| vi__ | the only way I can stop the phone from continually spazzing out | 11:06 |
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| psycho_oreos | is by pressing on the power button twice? | 11:07 |
| vi__ | is to echo 0 > /sys/somethging/lockslider/disable | 11:07 |
| vi__ | chmod 444 /sys/something/lockslider disable | 11:08 |
| psycho_oreos | o.O | 11:08 |
| vi__ | this stops the hardware from updating the /sys/ file system | 11:08 |
| vi__ | this is if I can even get it to boot without spazzing out because the lockslider GPIO is hammering like a machinegun | 11:09 |
| vi__ | HALP MEE | 11:09 |
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| psycho_oreos | I wouldn't know if there's a separate entry for kernel compiling that deals with lockslide but you may want to have a look at that and see if its possible. If it is you can probably compile it without that option but apart from that I really don't have much other thoughts | 11:11 |
| vi__ | I thought my n900 and I would grow old together... | 11:11 |
| vi__ | :( | 11:11 |
| vi__ | BAW | 11:11 |
| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, as I started beginning to write a thread on BH-905 I thought `fuck it' and decided to remove those dirty sticky tapes, I got the FCC ID now :D thanks anyway | 11:13 |
| vi__ | where to buy a new n900? | 11:15 |
| psycho_oreos | technologies ages faster than pets these days, I wouldn't even expect N900 to outlast one's life unless one is suffering in terminal condition or kills themselves shortly ;) | 11:15 |
| psycho_oreos | amazon methinks | 11:15 |
| vi__ | i have a terminal conditon | 11:15 |
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| vi__ | an x-term condition | 11:15 |
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| vi__ | the ONLY new n900s on amazon are listed by someone who has a lot of bad feedback for NOT providing new devices. | 11:16 |
| psycho_oreos | s/condition/illness/ | 11:16 |
| vi__ | what can I possibly get to replace this thing? | 11:17 |
| psycho_oreos | there aren't many other alternatives for brand spanking new N900 :) I'm sure you're already aware that nokia no longer manufactures N900 | 11:17 |
| vi__ | ...yeah | 11:17 |
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| vi__ | where can I stick those lines for disabling lockslider that they get loaded at the EARLIST time possible? | 11:18 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: ? | 11:19 |
| psycho_oreos | kernel | 11:19 |
| vi__ | speedevil: ? | 11:20 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: ? | 11:21 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: I don't understand what you're asking. | 11:21 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: HELP!!!! | 11:21 |
| vi__ | 09:05 < vi__> my n900 has gone bananas | 11:21 |
| vi__ | 09:05 -!- Irssi: Join to #maemo was synced in 16 secs | 11:21 |
| vi__ | 09:05 < vi__> bar-nar-nars | 11:21 |
| vi__ | 09:06 < vi__> the microswitch for the lockslider must be worn out | 11:21 |
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| vi__ | the only way I can stop the phone from continually spazzing out | 11:22 |
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| vi__ | is to echo 0 > /sys/somethging/lockslider/disable | 11:22 |
| vi__ | chmod 444 /sys/something/lockslider disable | 11:22 |
| vi__ | this stops the hardware from updating the /sys/ file system | 11:22 |
| vi__ | this is if I can even get it to boot without spazzing out because the lockslider GPIO is hammering like a machinegun | 11:22 |
| vi__ | this is if I can even get it to boot without spazzing out because the lockslider GPIO is hammering like a machinegun | 11:22 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: now you know | 11:23 |
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| infobot | robbiethe1st: please see ~usbfix! | 11:34 |
| psycho_oreos | whoa infobot is right on it :p | 11:35 |
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| ruskie | lol | 11:37 |
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| TimmyT | where to download multiboot for installing nitdroid? the link in their wiki is broken | 11:37 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: have you come across the lockslidwer microswitch problem before? | 11:38 |
| psycho_oreos | multiboot might be available in extras-{testing,devel} | 11:40 |
| TimmyT | it was not availabe in the testing | 11:41 |
| psycho_oreos | then its probably in devel, the usual end-user warnings still apply | 11:42 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: | 11:51 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: ? | 11:51 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: I have a hardware question | 11:51 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: GPIO115 (keyboard lock slider) has started to spazz out | 11:52 |
| vi__ | it flip-flops open/closed continually | 11:52 |
| vi__ | have you come across this before | 11:53 |
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| vi__ | ? | 11:53 |
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| TimmyT | reformatting mmcblk0p1 as ext3 doesn't cause less cpu usage? in my pc i see reading/writing on a vfat partition uses more cpu | 12:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | It seems very unlikely it will be significant. | 12:09 |
| TimmyT | hmmm? | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I am dubious that it will use more CPU even on the desktop case. | 12:12 |
| SpeedEvil | How were you measuring it? | 12:12 |
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| rly | Can I sync the calendar with some Linux application on my desktop? | 12:30 |
| _berto_ | http://android-press-release.com/ | 12:31 |
| _berto_ | LOL | 12:31 |
| robbiethe1st | "I embrace Google's commitment to fighting Android and it's accomplices." XD | 12:35 |
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| rly | If I add a contact like 'Von Neumann', it puts it at the letter V, instead of the N. How can I make it work such that the real last name is used for sorting? | 12:55 |
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| rly | I can input it like Neumann, Von, but that kind of sucks. | 12:55 |
| rly | Is there an alternative contact applications which does work better? | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: you've seen ~usbfix ? | 12:55 |
| Shapeshifter | rly: call your contact 'herbert Neumann, von' | 12:56 |
| robbiethe1st | Haven't checked, yet | 12:56 |
| robbiethe1st | ~usvbfix | 12:56 |
| robbiethe1st | ~usbfix | 12:56 |
| infobot | Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<< | 12:56 |
| Shapeshifter | rly: I know it's ugly but I actually think that the contacts app is one of the few stock things that actually works rather well. | 12:56 |
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| rly | Shapeshifter: it also is not very fast, but otherwise it seems great. | 12:57 |
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| rly | Shapeshifter: there are two fields to input a name. | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, contacts is missing a *lot* to become usable | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: you could try "title" | 12:58 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: what do you use? Or is your n900 just a geek attribute? ;) | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: I don't have any contacts :-P | 12:59 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: sad. | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 12:59 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: heh, with your amount of knowledge, I am sure lots of people want to know you. | 12:59 |
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| robbiethe1st | I've no qualms about the contacts app... it's easier than the one in our old Nokia dumbphone, due to having any number of fields | 12:59 |
| Shapeshifter | I like the merge functionality | 13:00 |
| rly | Shapeshifter: can I also read those contacts back in on Linux? | 13:00 |
| Shapeshifter | And the integration with the IM/sip/phone apps is good. | 13:00 |
| jiero | Hi, anybody here play Quake 3 on N900? | 13:00 |
| rly | Shapeshifter: e.g. with Thunderbird/Evolution/etc.? | 13:00 |
| jiero | can help me with config? | 13:00 |
| Shapeshifter | rly: no clue, sorry, but I'm quite sure you can since you can export vcards or something - I can't remember. | 13:01 |
| jiero | integration of organizer - I still wonder why IM not intergrated into Thunderbird. | 13:01 |
| Shapeshifter | I wouldn't want that. | 13:02 |
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| jiero | Shapeshifter: you don't want it on PC, but on mobile you may want it | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | missing: *fulltext search. *Predefined set of fields. *user-defined fields. *alphabethical search without hw kbd. *proper cam integration. *per contact ringtones. *groups. *per group ringtones. *....... | 13:02 |
| jiero | PC i mean desktop | 13:02 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: well yeah | 13:02 |
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| rly | How can I input 'delete'? | 13:03 |
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| rly | Or is -> Backspace the only option? | 13:03 |
| robbiethe1st | shift + backpace = delete | 13:03 |
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| rly | How can I input accents in the contacts app? | 13:10 |
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| rly | So, I flashed the system again, with the 1.3 global version, but in network mode I still cannot see WPA2. I just see WEP or None. | 13:16 |
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| rly | When I select infrastructure, I see a few extra options, but not WPA2. | 13:17 |
| jiero | I have a problem with ioquake3 config | 13:17 |
| rly | (I was using adhoc mode) | 13:17 |
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| dm8tbr | adhoc is not specified for WPA IIRC. that is in the standard | 13:19 |
| dm8tbr | some software does support it but by far not all | 13:19 |
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| xkr47 | weeh n900 arrived | 13:23 |
| rly | dm8tbr: I can set the laptop to be in Infrastructure mode too, what is the difference anyway? | 13:23 |
| rly | dm8tbr: the n900 only says WPA mode, not WPA2 mode. | 13:24 |
| rly | The terminology used by Ubuntu for setting up the access point and what the n900 uses is also not the same. The n900 is much more technical (not a problem per se, but I just don't see the point (why not just try all methods to connect (which is faster than typing it in manually))). | 13:25 |
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| fizzie | In the normal case you just pick from the list of visible networks and don't worry about the method. | 13:26 |
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| Sicelo | infrastructure is when an AP is available. so if you set it on your laptop without AP, either it can act like one, or you won't have any connectivity | 13:26 |
| Shapeshifter | rly: what is your greater goal? | 13:27 |
| Shapeshifter | rly: using the internet connection of the n900? moving files? | 13:28 |
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| rly | Shapeshifter: basically being able to use the Internet on the n900. | 13:28 |
| rly | Shapeshifter: at least until I have a real AP. | 13:28 |
| rly | 'real' being some kind of wifi router. | 13:29 |
| Shapeshifter | rly: on the n900? As in, your laptop is connected to the internet? | 13:29 |
| rly | Shapeshifter: the laptop is connected via a wired connection. | 13:29 |
| rly | Shapeshifter: I also want to ssh to the n900 and configure some stuff, etc. | 13:29 |
| rly | Without Internet, it is a pretty dead device ;) | 13:29 |
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| Sicelo | then ad-hoc is your only option for wireless atm. | 13:30 |
| Sicelo | but, there's also USB Networking | 13:30 |
| Shapeshifter | rly: I strongly rrecommend either using USB or bluetooth: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37710 | 13:30 |
| rly | Shapeshifter: I also have bluetooth. Does that work over 10 meters? | 13:31 |
| Shapeshifter | uh, hardly :| | 13:31 |
| rly | Shapeshifter: ok, so far does it get? | 13:31 |
| Shapeshifter | I doubt you're getting more than 2m. | 13:33 |
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| ErwinJunge | I've used the bluetooth internet sharing thing for approx 5 meters reliably. | 13:36 |
| ErwinJunge | Not sure if it matters, but in my case the N900 provided internet to my laptop. | 13:36 |
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| Shapeshifter | ErwinJunge: mhh, I've been doing that as well for the past week and I think it broke down after a meter or so but maybe it was just a glitch. On the other hand, i was quite baffled when I was editing some stuff on the N900 using vim over SSH, then I went shopping taking my N900 with me and forgot the session open, reconnected at home, and I was able to continue working. the ssh session didn't break :< | 13:39 |
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| ErwinJunge | Hm.. that would baffle me as well | 13:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ping | 13:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: pong | 13:49 |
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| jiero | ... | 13:51 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, gonna have to borrow yer hardware brains :) So let me get this straight, the FMTX antenna is that lookalike clip thingy with two test pads to the left of it? | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can ask questions :-D | 13:52 |
| psycho_oreos | err I did lol | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | may I ask why that matters at all? | 13:52 |
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| psycho_oreos | the friggin hardware schematics pdf got me spinning round and round for awhile whilst I was trying to add new information to hardware hacking on the maemo.org wiki | 13:53 |
| psycho_oreos | for reference and curious sake | 13:53 |
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| peterbjornxz | im sorry to interrupt, but what exactly does pivot_root do | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | man pivot_root? | 13:54 |
| psycho_oreos | I guess similar to chroot except you can't exactly exit out of chrooted environment | 13:54 |
| peterbjornxz | well i read the manpage but its not really clear to me | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | it basically changes rot from one directory/mountpoint/fs to another | 13:55 |
| peterbjornxz | why is chroot still necessary then | 13:55 |
| psycho_oreos | because you can exit out of chroot | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's used e.g. to crank up the real system coming from an initrd | 13:55 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm only guessing here | 13:55 |
| peterbjornxz | i mean in the boot script | 13:55 |
| peterbjornxz | it pivotroots then it does exec chroot . /sbin/init $RUNLEVEL | 13:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | peterbjornxz: in init there's no chroot except for processes running in a chroot jail | 13:56 |
| peterbjornxz | no i mean in preinit | 13:56 |
| TimmyT | how much it takes to boot up nitdroid? | 13:57 |
| peterbjornxz | look at the original preinit | 13:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | preinit is really nifty tricky stuff | 13:58 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, fyi: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#External_antennas <-- in reference to the initial question by myself :) | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it holds a lot of legacy from diablo where we actually had an initrd | 13:58 |
| peterbjornxz | yeah, im trying to make a small rootfs that will only boot into the eMMC | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: in answer to your initial Q: the contact is X6189 | 13:59 |
| peterbjornxz | it worked but all of a sudden it broke | 13:59 |
| peterbjornxz | reflash of rootfs and reflash of eMMC didnt help | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are also J6192 and J6193 probably as testpads | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | X6189 is in component placement diagram quadrant H1 | 14:00 |
| peterbjornxz | pivot_root . mnt/initfs | 14:01 |
| peterbjornxz | echo "progress: 3" | 14:01 |
| peterbjornxz | exec /usr/sbin/chroot . /sbin/init 2 | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | find H1 with X6189 in schematics p.17 "Bottom" | 14:02 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, yeah X6189 is what I eventually figured out. J6192 and J6193 is also what I later guessed as test pads but I wouldn't have a clue. You're citing from that section that I just created not long ago lol, I was hoping to see if you have a different view on it. | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not citing | 14:02 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 14:02 |
| psycho_oreos | well ok that is definitely is the case then :D thanks for double-checking | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 14:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now let's see what you've been up to on that wiki page that I didn't cite | 14:04 |
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| peterbjornxz | ok that chroot in preinit is weird | 14:04 |
| peterbjornxz | i started a shell after the pivot root and / is already the new FS | 14:04 |
| fizzie | Like the pivot_root(2) syscall manpage says, "BUGS: Some of the more obscure uses of pivot_root() may quickly lead to insanity." | 14:06 |
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| psycho_oreos | nothing much to be frank, I've tried to make it clear on my part with regards to external antenna capability. Too bad one cannot drill holes in supposedly empty areas of the PCB. Dumb idea indeed but I still dream about it, afterall GPS && BT/WLAN are on the obverse side of the PCB. | 14:06 |
| peterbjornxz | i've never taken my n900 apart but wouldnt it be possible to "carve" a indentation in the housing and run the wires thru that | 14:07 |
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| fizzie | peterbjornxz: The chroot is probably there "just in case", because according to the specifications pivot_root "may or may not change" the root of any other processes than the one calling pivot_root, so if it's using the separate pivot_root command the calling shell's root might happen to not change. | 14:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: those hirose test conectors are usually specified for sth like 20..500 mating cycles, before they definitely break/fail | 14:10 |
| psycho_oreos | It is possible to carve holes in the plastic external housing but my personal view is to try and minimise as much protruding heads on the N900, and also have all the extra heads coming out of the same area (i.e. from the back of N900). Also I've never pulled N900 apart myself as well. Though it did have the original keypad replaced with aftermarket variant by a non-certified technician | 14:11 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ahh, but then again they aren't that firm when `clipped' in imo as opposed to SMA being `screwed' in | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: we had hirose GSM connector on Neo FR, for e.g. car cradle with external ant. It didn't really pan out | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hirose is incredibly flimsy and really only meant for fab calibration purposes | 14:13 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, meaning that its useless especially when you're in an area that has poor coverage for instance? | 14:14 |
| psycho_oreos | bah :/ | 14:14 |
| lcuk | apart from the htc flyer, are there any new tablets with pen input? | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | the cable loss (the wiki erratically calls this "interference") on those thin cables is extremely high, so one meter may easily eat up all the gain you get by the external antenna | 14:15 |
| psycho_oreos | I mean in the case of WLAN devices, adding external antennas via hirose u.fl is definitely a big boost. I though it would similarly affect in this case | 14:15 |
| psycho_oreos | heh I suppose "interference" can probably be called "noise induction" | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | check out dB/m loss specifications of thin cables | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: that's nonsense | 14:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's no noise induced, it's just the signel getting weaker with every cm of cable it travels | 14:16 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah I know about thin cables being a huge issue. | 14:17 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can easily find cables that have like 6dB loss per meter | 14:17 |
| psycho_oreos | then there was that other issue with making it run through adapters/converters.. i.e. from one head to another different head. | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | you hardly find antennae with 6dB gain | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, connectors also have loss, and spoil wave impedance and thus call standing wave aka reflections | 14:19 |
| psycho_oreos | unless you get directionals imo | 14:19 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | the cable needs a carefully tuned impedance measured in Ohm though it's not a real resistance | 14:20 |
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| psycho_oreos | heh I can imagine that would be logical, afterall Ohm is really useful for electricity in general | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | every discontinuity spoils that impedance locally and thus creates reflections. Like a rope you move up and down to send waves along it, and there's suddenly a weight sitting on the rope | 14:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the Ohm impedance of a cable says "you will not see any reflections if you terminate the cable with a resistor of that size" | 14:22 |
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| psycho_oreos | hmm | 14:23 |
| cityLights | how can I run a program with gdb to see if it exits due to memory? | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | connecting two cables with different Z is like tying togetehr two ropes of different strength. And wave yu sent along the rope will not move smothly from the thin to the thick rope or vice versa | 14:23 |
| cityLights | when I run PROGRAM in a script , it fails | 14:24 |
| cityLights | I want to know why it failed. assuming the kernel killed it because it was asking for too much memory | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | cityLights: if that was the reason then that's recorded in dmesg/syslog | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | cityLights: I suggest to use strace to start and monitor the PROGRAM | 14:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | last few diagnostic lines of strace output probably will yield the reason why it terminated | 14:26 |
| cityLights | thanks a lot mate | 14:26 |
| cityLights | you are usually nice | 14:27 |
| psycho_oreos | I guess ultimately I'll have to mod mine and see how far I go lol. I thought I'd be able to find interesting results if there were external antennas attached, but generally everyone's mileage varies and as noted there wasn't any huge difference when external antenna was attached to OM FR for GSM :/ | 14:27 |
| x29a | hi folks, im trying to develop an app using the qtsdk and qt mobility. i can install the 1.1.3 qtm via the installer but need functionality from the 1.2 qtm. i found http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Latest_Qt_and_Qt_mobility_evaluation_on_Maemo which lets me install some debs, but how do i integrate the headers (-dev) into the qtsdk? will mad-admin do that for me? | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | cityLights: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Debugging & http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/strace | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: external *active* antenna for GPS makes some sense | 14:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, active as in attaching something like a signal booster? ;) | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the antenna can be way better due to larger patch area | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: yes | 14:30 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 14:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the booster compensates for the cable loss | 14:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | The FR had a monstrously huge antenna. | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Ridiculously. | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | while the larger patch gives better senitivity | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | (for a phone) | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: out RF house were fools | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | our* | 14:31 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: is a battery powered bluetooth gps receiver any good with the n900? | 14:31 |
| psycho_oreos | BT/WLAN can definitely benefit if its done properly. FMTX would probably be evil if it had external antenna ;) people using that mod to put huge directional antennas in a bid to block other radio station's signals ;) | 14:31 |
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| Shapeshifter | psycho_oreos: I would love to do that. | 14:31 |
| TimmyT | ahh. i've installed nitroid on my device, but in the welcome screen how much i press that android, it does nothing | 14:31 |
| psycho_oreos | Shapeshifter, do which? | 14:31 |
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| Shapeshifter | psycho_oreos: force my music onto my neighbor | 14:32 |
| Shapeshifter | :> | 14:32 |
| Shapeshifter | j/k | 14:32 |
| psycho_oreos | Shapeshifter, well you could :) | 14:32 |
| psycho_oreos | in theory that is ;) | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | they managed even to give us sensitivity diagrams for antenna that didn't match for 0° horizontal plane and 0° vertical plane, though it's same line of view | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: probably as good as with arbitrary other devices | 14:32 |
| x29a | no one familiar with qt mobility (on linux) and want to give me some hitns? | 14:33 |
| x29a | is there a channel for qtm stuff? | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: generally those GPS mice are better than the integrated GPS RX of a phone | 14:33 |
| x29a | there is | 14:33 |
| * psycho_oreos looks at the sensitivity diagrams ... with great confusion | 14:33 | |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 14:33 |
| nze | damn DocScrutinizer what time zone are you living in? or have you just given up on sleeping alltogether? | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes :-D | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | What is GMT+5? | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm there at teh moment | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Russia? | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Mooall | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | India? | 14:35 |
| RST38h | Israel | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mooorst | 14:35 |
| RST38h | Welcome to Israel, SpeedEvil | 14:35 |
| * SpeedEvil needs to fix his sleep schedule. | 14:35 | |
| psycho_oreos | <-- This does not have super cow powers | 14:35 |
| cityLights | RST38h: are you in tel aviv? | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: abandon sleep, problem fixed | 14:35 |
| cityLights | can we meet for beer? | 14:35 |
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| RST38h | cityLights: Me? Tel Aviv? No. | 14:35 |
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| cityLights | ok, whrere IS you/ | 14:36 |
| cityLights | ? | 14:36 |
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| RST38h | Right now? Greece. | 14:36 |
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| cityLights | vacation? | 14:36 |
| RST38h | something like that | 14:37 |
| cityLights | wish I could see a n950.... | 14:37 |
| RST38h | It is pretty much like E7, just done right | 14:37 |
| cityLights | I didnt apply in time, and so I was left with my n900 | 14:37 |
| TimmyT | im going to kill that GREEN BEE OF ANDROID, why this slow doesn't go to the next step? | 14:37 |
| cityLights | I wounder if I may still get one.... | 14:38 |
| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: I understand wht you're saying, but reflashing is not a snsible optoion for me. Better to do the networking the right way . I tried bluetooth but it is not functioning in XPhome :( | 14:38 |
| RST38h | Why not apply now? | 14:38 |
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| RST38h | There were 50 extra available just recently | 14:38 |
| cityLights | I looked at www.meego.com, and didnt find a link | 14:38 |
| * RST38h moos at multiplecopies of MohammadAG joining | 14:38 | |
| DocScrutinizer | x29a: there might be some helping user eventually. Just qtm isn't that popular yet | 14:38 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, I suppose there's no way to also tell judging by looking at the hardware schematics which one of the test pads is positive for FMTX? page 8 for reference. I'm guessing J6192 is positive as J6193 is wired to ground it seems and that has to be negative according to my rather poor electrical knowledge :) | 14:38 |
| psycho_oreos | I really don't think one gets any second or successive chances at applying to obtain N950 :p | 14:39 |
| x29a | DocScrutinizer: allrighty, ill stay around #qt-mobility for a while | 14:39 |
| x29a | and figure it out on my own (i hope) | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you're multiple? | 14:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: for RF there's no such thing like positive and negative. GND is GND though, and GND very usually runs via shielding mesh of a coax cable | 14:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ahh | 14:42 |
| psycho_oreos | so with RF antennas its live and ground? :/ | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, like RCA | 14:43 |
| * psycho_oreos googles | 14:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer | aka cinch | 14:43 |
| psycho_oreos | thanks :) | 14:43 |
| psycho_oreos | I should probably add a note to that on that wiki page | 14:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: that's not worth a note | 14:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | *slaps self in forehead* good thing RCA == RCA as in the usual A/V coaxial cables | 14:45 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, *shrugs* for those whom may want to try wiring up SMA head to those test pads :) | 14:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they shouldn't do that, better use the test connector | 14:47 |
| * chem|st pokes DocScrutinizer | 14:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer | EEEK | 14:47 |
| chem|st | ~botsnack | 14:47 |
| infobot | aw, gee, chem|st | 14:47 |
| psycho_oreos | what I meant was to solder a cable with SMA bulk head on one end and naked wires on the other end onto those test pads :) | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | they shouldn't do that, better use the test connector | 14:48 |
| psycho_oreos | huh? wire antenna directly to the test connector instead? | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | test pads are for test only, they aren't optimized for low loss. See my above lecture about Z of a RF conductor | 14:49 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh yup | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | but ooh I see we got no hirose connector on FMTX | 14:50 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 14:50 |
| psycho_oreos | well I guess there's no need to apparently :) | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | wouldn't make sense to have hirose AND testpads | 14:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: indeed, for a simple go/nogo test a testpad is just fine | 14:51 |
| psycho_oreos | still having test pads is better than nothing :D at least it is possible to dream of wiring those FM antennas onto it | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: anyway as long as the original antenna is connected to X6159 there's no way to properly connect an alternative external antenna | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as both antennae work as termination Z for the trace, so you will actually spoil all when connecting a second antenna | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: your only possible way to connect an external FMTX is by removing the internal one and connecting a cable to X6159 instead | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | all that is mere theory. In practice all RF is mere voodoo | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | but some things don't work even in voodoo | 14:55 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, yeah I was thinking of that, to desolder that X6195 weird looking antenna and solder something like a retractable antenna | 14:55 |
| psycho_oreos | something like this *snickers* http://fl2.shopmania.org/files/images/19377/gray-gold-trim-retractable-antenna-for-motorola-t720-i-new~t_19376336.jpg | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd first need to find out abut footpoint Z of the internal ant | 14:56 |
| psycho_oreos | and having that thing sticking out of N900, *laughs* making N900 look hardly any different from one of those chinese clones.. *fake* N900 with TV receiver (but instead its FM transmitter antenna) | 14:57 |
| psycho_oreos | yup | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | the trace on PCB and the antenna are carefully paired and tuned | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | True, but misleading. | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | A very badly matched external antenna connected in parallel may have several ordes of magnitude more response due to being a more efficient radiator. | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's where vodoo starts | 14:58 |
| psycho_oreos | that'll be all fun and games for me when it comes to the day that I get around modding my N900 :). Though the thought of having one of those retractable antennas like that link sticking out of N900 looks funny :) | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | it *might* - orit might only for 95.8 MHz whil for 97MHz nothing works. Or it makes TX chip break with ESD, or what the hell else may happen | 14:59 |
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| psycho_oreos | or it might not even transmit on any specified range heh | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | generally SpeedEvil is right | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | a "better" antenna has chances to perform better, usually | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | ESD is a big issue | 15:02 |
| peterbjornxz | lolwut | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway keep in mind there are no unipole antennae ever. Always dipoles, usualy the GND is the other pole | 15:02 |
| Hurrian | hmm | 15:02 |
| peterbjornxz | All telephony functions, including emergency calls, are disabled due to a communication error. To recover , you might have to reboot the device. | 15:02 |
| psycho_oreos | true but I wouldn't agree the fancy antenna being embedded onto the N900 is actually that great. If anything I tend to think of it as an inhibiting factor just to keep authorities happy. | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 15:03 |
| Hurrian | i think we may have a winner in the "N900 replacement" area | 15:03 |
| Hurrian | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iit5_YcTBC0 | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: well FMTX ant has proper ESD protector tranzorb | 15:04 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: neat | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas no source Z to 'protect' the protector | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | or more like source Z is the embedded property of antenna | 15:06 |
| peterbjornxz | in that vid, look at the usb cable | 15:06 |
| Hurrian | chem|st - the downside is, there is no GSM model | 15:06 |
| peterbjornxz | its a nokia cable | 15:06 |
| Hurrian | peterbjornxz, according to the people on /g/, it needs to use cables with shorted D+ D- | 15:06 |
| peterbjornxz | ? | 15:07 |
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| Hurrian | ...much like to N900 charger ;) | 15:07 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: but (native) is not native, native is android isn't it? | 15:07 |
| Hurrian | chem | 15:07 |
| Hurrian | chem|st : it rebooted, and booted ubuntu | 15:07 |
| peterbjornxz | ah i see why phone didnt work | 15:07 |
| Arkenoi | smartbooks suck | 15:08 |
| peterbjornxz | Programming CMT: 63%Sending request 0x12 failed: Cannot send after transport endpoint shutdown | 15:08 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: yeah but native is "shipped with" | 15:08 |
| Hurrian | it's only $150, bought it, arriving by next week, returning with test results | 15:08 |
| Hurrian | chem|st , native is not in chroot ;) | 15:08 |
| Arkenoi | and "pocket desktop" sucks, as one may notice with easydebian | 15:08 |
| peterbjornxz | yea, native means running on bare hardware | 15:08 |
| chem|st | and the size is good, add some hardware and good | 15:08 |
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| Hurrian | i hope it has some kind of hardware acceleration though | 15:09 |
| chem|st | ok if they mean native with that then ok | 15:09 |
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| Arkenoi | there was zaurus once | 15:09 |
| Arkenoi | and it sucked as well | 15:09 |
| Hurrian | arkenoi, it's a rebranded sharp device | 15:09 |
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| Hurrian | driving a 960x480 display with CPU power will be painful if it doesnt have some accelerator | 15:10 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, snapdragon qsd8250@1GHz armv7 with adreno 200 | 15:11 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: | 15:18 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: is here? | 15:18 |
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| rly | What format sim cards fit into an n900? It seems mine is too big. | 15:39 |
| chem|st | rly: normal | 15:39 |
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| robbiethe1st | Yea, normal sim cards | 15:39 |
| rly | I opened the thing besides the camera where a small metal thing is now pointing up. | 15:39 |
| rly | There is a logo on the simcard which likely is useles. | 15:40 |
| rly | useless* | 15:40 |
| robbiethe1st | No, the sim card's under the battery | 15:40 |
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| rly | Ah, now I see it. | 15:40 |
| chem|st | rly: that is the SD-card slot | 15:40 |
| rly | chem|st: thanks :) | 15:40 |
| kirma | the other one is microsd slot... | 15:40 |
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| chem|st | rly: got a new one? | 15:41 |
| chem|st | or used? | 15:41 |
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| * kirma purchased a new N900 from local shop couple weeks ago | 15:42 | |
| kirma | still couple scattered in random shops supposedly | 15:42 |
| rly | chem|st: used, but practically new. | 15:43 |
| kirma | old N900 lost the USB connector, and I know Nokia warranty is not giving anything particularly useful (although it might be reasonably sellable) at this point | 15:43 |
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| kirma | just be extra careful with the USB connector, and don't let strangers ram the plug into it. it can be broken with singe act of violence (unlikely to detach immediately, but later anyway) | 15:44 |
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| rly | chem|st: before I spend 700 euros on a new device, I better should know how to use it. | 15:46 |
| chem|st | 700eur? | 15:46 |
| psycho_oreos | sounds like someone got ripped off | 15:47 |
| rly | chem|st: a new Iphone costed about that when it got introduced. | 15:47 |
| x29a | combo deal, buy an old n900 and get two n950 for 700eur ;) | 15:48 |
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| rly | I don't think I got ripped off on my n900. | 15:48 |
| kirma | around 470 euros for the brand new N900 couple weeks ago, and what it was for direct order from nokia when it was new... 620 euros maybe? | 15:48 |
| rly | I got it for 185 euros. | 15:49 |
| psycho_oreos | then what was the 700eur figure for? N9? | 15:49 |
| x29a | 185€ is reasonable | 15:50 |
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| chem|st | rly: a new iPhone is not even worth 185€ to me | 15:51 |
| chem|st | but buying it for 185 and selling it for 300 is worth it! (that idiots still buy that shit?!) | 15:52 |
| rly | chem|st: because it is closed? | 15:52 |
| rly | Anyway, my GPS is not working. | 15:52 |
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| rly | I put in an old SIM (someone said that might help), but I don't get any signal. | 15:52 |
| chem|st | rly: because it has nifty sticky fingers when you activate, license agreement not to mention | 15:52 |
| chem|st | rly: if the chip is not gone it may take up to 12 minutes to get a fix without network assistance | 15:53 |
| rly | chem|st: wow | 15:54 |
| chem|st | rly: is it upgraded to newest public release? | 15:54 |
| kirma | phone-style devices are really designed to be used with assisted GPS | 15:54 |
| rly | chem|st: yes | 15:54 |
| chem|st | rly: gps roundrobin is 12mins | 15:54 |
| rly | chem|st: then how does a TomTom do it? | 15:55 |
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| chem|st | rly: the same way | 15:55 |
| rly | chem|st: you walk outside with batteries just entered and you get a fix in 30 seconds. | 15:55 |
| rly | chem|st: or is that because it remembers where it was? | 15:55 |
| kirma | assist provides ephemerides and/or almanac, location estimate and somewhat reasonable guess of current time | 15:56 |
| chem|st | rly: if you change the location (+100km) of a tomtom with batteries removed it might take a while! | 15:56 |
| kirma | although it's certainly not as precise in user plane as it would be on control plane | 15:56 |
| kirma | I believe tomtom and friends have dramatically better antennas on their devices | 15:57 |
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| chem|st | if the tomtom got a gsm database within it can determine your location from that | 15:57 |
| kirma | (of course, maintaining almanac and such is commonly used strategy to improve lock time) | 15:57 |
| chem|st | kirma: it is the only wawy to improve fixing time | 15:58 |
| chem|st | without almanac no fix... | 15:58 |
| kirma | if it has no GSM modem, it probably doesn't have a chance, and almanac download is necessary anyway (over GPS slowly or over GSM or such quickly) | 15:58 |
| rly | What is almanac download? | 15:59 |
| chem|st | rly: it is about 50baud | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps | 15:59 |
| infobot | i guess rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP | 15:59 |
| chem|st | rly: almanac is the dataset of the satelites | 15:59 |
| rly | chem|st: so, the satellites broadcast that? | 15:59 |
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| chem|st | with that you can calculate your time diversion and such your location | 15:59 |
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| kirma | I'm not entirely certain what SUPL (protocol used in N900, for instance) provides in practice, but I'd guess also almanac | 15:59 |
| rly | chem|st: ok, but even without a SIM it should work after 12 minutes, or 30 minutes to be sure. | 16:00 |
| chem|st | rly: yes they broadcast that with a round robin of 12minutes | 16:00 |
| chem|st | with a satelite at view 12minutes not a second longer | 16:00 |
| flux | chem|st, unless a piece of data has been corrupted? | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | then it takes another 12min | 16:01 |
| chem|st | well you need more satelites at view to get a position but the almanac will be renewed in your device cache after 12minutes | 16:01 |
| kirma | enabling assisted GPS is really a good idea | 16:01 |
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| kirma | typically that drops time to fix to mere seconds (assuming visible sky) | 16:01 |
| rly | kirma: how do you do that? | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | in settings | 16:02 |
| chem|st | flux: yeah things like bad weather in terms of sunstorms and such can give you that | 16:02 |
| rly | I saw a location option. | 16:02 |
| rly | BUt I don't recall seeing assisted gps being mentioned anywhere. | 16:02 |
| chem|st | yeah location options and give that thing wifi... | 16:02 |
| kirma | settings -> position -> network positioning -> enable and location server: supl.nokia.com | 16:03 |
| rly | kirma: ah, ok. | 16:03 |
| kirma | uses GPRS, assuming you let it | 16:03 |
| rly | kirma: can you also let it use wifi? | 16:03 |
| kirma | demands GPRS actually | 16:03 |
| chem|st | kirma: any network | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | settings -> GPS -> network positioning | 16:03 |
| kirma | I think it wants, for some reason, to get cell info and (for no apparent reason) use GPRS specifically | 16:04 |
| chem|st | it needs gsm towers to locate but networkconnection can be any | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | directly above textbox for supl server URL | 16:04 |
| chem|st | kirma: works with wifi but you need your gsm on to work as it needs the celltower IDs | 16:04 |
| kirma | typical data usage for that is couple kilobytes per fix. then again, how often that happens is a different question... | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps | 16:05 |
| infobot | i heard rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | is the big secret | 16:05 |
| kirma | chem|st: I'm not certain if it works with plain wifi data bearer nowadays, but AFAIR it didn't before | 16:05 |
| chem|st | and FYI I have a 3G tower near by which is located about 400km away in the nokia database... so I never get a fix as it constantly overwrites the almanac with a wrong location one | 16:05 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: My KBlock slider switch is going nuts. dmesg shows GPIO113 open/closing several times a second for a bit then nothing. The only way I have been able to make the n900 stable (i.e. not un/locking continuosly) is to | 16:05 |
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| chem|st | kirma: you need celltower IDs... | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: fix switch? | 16:06 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: set the file permission of /sys/something/something/kblock/disable | 16:06 |
| vi__ | to read only | 16:06 |
| kirma | almanac is global, but location estimate of course not... | 16:06 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: have you heard of this microswitch failing on anyone elses n900 before? | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | but switches fail sometimes | 16:06 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: Bah | 16:07 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: I know | 16:07 |
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| chem|st | kirma: yes the other way round it overwrites location caches with wrong entries from the almanac as it thinks it is somewhere else | 16:07 |
| rly | With the size of electronics these days, you basically have to pray it works. | 16:07 |
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| rly | At least, that was the impression I got from a book I read on FPGAs. | 16:08 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: the funny thing is I have visually inspected the PCB and the microswitch 'looks' ok, it even still has the appropraite springing action. | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: seems easy enough for a experienced solderer to replace that switch | 16:08 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: kblock is the sideswitch or the magnet one? | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | sideswitch | 16:08 |
| chem|st | ok | 16:08 |
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| chem|st | that should be quiet easy to solder... | 16:08 |
| vi__ | mmm, where would I get a switch part number? | 16:08 |
| chem|st | vi__: which country are you from? | 16:08 |
| vi__ | uk | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | sliding switch tk_lock | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | hard | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | try to find sth that looks like matching, from digikey. Or ask Nokia care center for a spare part | 16:09 |
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| vi__ | It looks easy enough to solder a new one on, I was just *hoping* I might have overlooked somthing. | 16:09 |
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| chem|st | 5£ is a switch.. | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: just resolder the old one, just i n case | 16:10 |
| vi__ | apparently I have a warranty till may 2012 | 16:10 |
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| vi__ | but I sure as hell won't get an n900 back, even if they accept my one for repair | 16:11 |
| flux | vi__, well, better do that then? ..and hope you get an N900 back :) | 16:11 |
| chem|st | vi__: then send it in... with a note if they do not repair you want it back anyways | 16:11 |
| Appiah | funny thing chem|st | 16:11 |
| flux | while you're at it, you could get a switch that properly debounces | 16:11 |
| chem|st | Appiah: what? | 16:11 |
| Appiah | I did that | 16:11 |
| chem|st | Appiah: the note? | 16:11 |
| Appiah | wrote , send it back if you are not gonna repair i | 16:11 |
| Appiah | it* | 16:11 |
| flux | it's bloody annoying to slide the switch and it almost goes to screensaver and then comes back | 16:11 |
| flux | and then it's stalling for a second or two and I need to retry | 16:11 |
| rly | chem|st: then they would just leave it on the shelves and send it back after a few weeks. | 16:11 |
| chem|st | Appiah: did that with the insurance company | 16:11 |
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| Appiah | oh | 16:11 |
| flux | well I guess vi__ would also be satisfied with a new N900 :) | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: vi__: the switch is Normally Open. So debouncing can't be the issue | 16:12 |
| chem|st | well you have warranty so they have to give something to you, s/t else then only your broken device | 16:12 |
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| Appiah | they sent me a n8 =( | 16:13 |
| Appiah | I refused to take it | 16:13 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, maybe I don't use the right term. what's it called, filtering the switch to give proper pulses instead of short glitches? | 16:13 |
| vi__ | flux: debounce | 16:13 |
| vi__ | Appiah: what country are you in? | 16:13 |
| chem|st | Appiah: I would have made them send the n900 in addition! | 16:13 |
| Appiah | Sweden | 16:13 |
| flux | I need to log the device some time to find out what it gives in that situation.. | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's the perfect term, for a switch that's meant to close. vi__ 's problem aiui is the switch operates (closes) without any reason | 16:14 |
| Appiah | and my note included , Do not send me a n8. | 16:14 |
| Appiah | Now I'm having the store taking care of getting my a new n900 or refunding me | 16:14 |
| Appiah | me* | 16:14 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, right, I wasn't referring to that problem, but my problem which is that when I do use the switch, it (apparently) can give two (or more) pulses instead of one | 16:14 |
| vi__ | Appiah: the price of a new n8? | 16:14 |
| vi__ | /s/n8/n900 | 16:14 |
| vi__ | /s/n8/n900/ | 16:14 |
| flux | indeed vi's problem cannot be debouncing if the switch is NO | 16:15 |
| vi__ | s/n8/n900/ | 16:15 |
| infobot | vi__ meant: /s/n900/n900/ | 16:15 |
| chem|st | vi__: have you tried an air duster on it yet? | 16:15 |
| Appiah | vi__: that has not been discussed yet | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: that might actually be debounce issue, either hw or in sw | 16:15 |
| vi__ | nokias idea of debounce is just poll really slowly | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: if you decide to do sth DIY, then I suggest you first step desolder the switch completely, and see if this problem stops | 16:16 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: good point | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: I guess you're right on that one (slow poll) | 16:17 |
| vi__ | that would help eliminate a whole raft of possibilities | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi__: odds are there's a spring broken in switch and now dangles and randomly shorts the switch. But if you're really cursed with bad luck, it's a defect on some other component - ESD tranzorb comes to mind | 16:20 |
| vi__ | anyone selling an broken rx-51 mobo? | 16:20 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: the switch appears to be ok mechanically | 16:21 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: however it is hard to tell in such a small piece | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: those are too small to tell what's going on inside | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | also some liquid "dirt" may partially short the switch, just enough to make CPU GPIO trigger threshold trip randomly | 16:22 |
| vi__ | 'liquid dirt'? | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | coke | 16:23 |
| vi__ | lol, i dun do drugs | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, apple juice then | 16:23 |
| vi__ | this device has never been subject to 'aqueous repellant' tests | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | just desolder the critter, or try the warranty path | 16:24 |
| vi__ | gonna try warrenty first | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suggest you do the second option | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 16:24 |
| vi__ | although I have found a 'brand new' n900 | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | nokla N900 ? | 16:25 |
| vi__ | still with original screen cover plastic, never been used | 16:25 |
| vi__ | yes | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | with dual sim? | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | and 320*200 screen? | 16:25 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: vga camera... | 16:25 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: and analogue tv tuner | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 16:26 |
| vi__ | new, the real deal | 16:26 |
| nze | dual sim would be so wicked actually… | 16:26 |
| vi__ | dual sim==half battery | 16:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | all chinese fake phones use that dual-sim chipset | 16:26 |
| vi__ | yup | 16:26 |
| vi__ | mtk3xxx chipset | 16:26 |
| vi__ | it smokes balls | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds about right | 16:27 |
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| vi__ | /s/mtk3xxx/mtk5xxx/ | 16:27 |
| vi__ | /s/mtk3xxx/mtk5xxx | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 16:27 |
| vi__ | -_- | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/a/aha/g | 16:28 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: hahahahahaha | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 16:28 |
| vi__ | %s/vi__/failz/g | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 16:29 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: :) | 16:29 |
| vi__ | anyway best outcome would be to end up with an N8 (or somthing) and my broken n900 back | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~prod vi__ | 16:29 |
| * infobot zaps vi__ with a high voltage cattle prod | 16:29 | |
| vi__ | that'd be sweeet | 16:29 |
| luke-jr | dual SIM can't share the same radio? | 16:30 |
| vi__ | luke-jr: ? | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: In my world it does | 16:30 |
| luke-jr | or at least run with only one SIM? | 16:30 |
| vi__ | luke-jr: how would that work???? | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: time multiplex | 16:30 |
| vi__ | ok | 16:31 |
| vi__ | AFAIK, MTK chipset uses two radios. | 16:31 |
| luke-jr | fail | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but actually I think it's not the way they implemented it | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: yup | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: stupid | 16:32 |
| vi__ | which is why battery life is awful on those chinese handsets | 16:32 |
| vi__ | Il wager they are so badly designed they probably don't even disable the 2nd radio if only 1 sim is in use. | 16:32 |
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| lupine_85 | vi__, the N900 becomes the property of Nokia | 16:37 |
| lupine_85 | however, if you demand it you'll get an N900 back, not an N8 | 16:37 |
| lupine_85 | (if we're talking about under warranty) | 16:37 |
| vi__ | I know, I was just wishful thinking | 16:38 |
| lupine_85 | if they try to fob you off with an N8 under warranty, refuse it and demand an N900 | 16:38 |
| lupine_85 | I did exactly this just last week | 16:39 |
| lupine_85 | I now have a new N900 of shiny | 16:39 |
| vi__ | A brand new N8 would be fine, send it strait to ebay/amazon for £260 | 16:39 |
| lupine_85 | is it as fine as a new N900, for you? | 16:40 |
| lupine_85 | (if you're just after money, if you push them only very slightly they'll give you an E7) | 16:40 |
| vi__ | either way, I end up with a new N900 | 16:40 |
| lupine_85 | E7s sell for more | 16:40 |
| lupine_85 | vi__, if you sell the N8/E7 to buy an N900, the N900 probably won't be warrantied | 16:40 |
| vi__ | lupine_85: good point, what country are you? | 16:41 |
| lupine_85 | which means when it breaks, you're screwed, and you've got all the extra sell/buy hassle to consider | 16:41 |
| lupine_85 | UK | 16:41 |
| lupine_85 | I have a new N900 with no effort and it still has a 6 month explicit warranty | 16:41 |
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| TimmyT | i've installed nitdroid and multiboot beside maemo, but when i reboot the phone i only see 1 option there for nitdroid and nothing for maemo, how to add a new one for maemo? | 16:41 |
| lupine_85 | (of the 2-year european limited warranty they offer) | 16:41 |
| lupine_85 | SoGA covers some faults for up to 6 years | 16:41 |
| vi__ | well worse scenario is I end up with my broken n900 only | 16:41 |
| lupine_85 | ...why? | 16:41 |
| chem|st | TimmyT: /topic | 16:42 |
| lupine_85 | if you're in warranty, they have a legal obligation to repair, replace or refund | 16:42 |
| TimmyT | chem|st: wat? | 16:42 |
| vi__ | lupine_85: agree | 16:42 |
| lupine_85 | if they refuse to meet it, -> small claims -> success | 16:42 |
| TimmyT | ahah | 16:42 |
| chem|st | TimmyT: read /topic | 16:42 |
| lupine_85 | even if -> small claims -> fail, you're still left with nokia's original preferred remedy (N8/E7), minus minimal costs | 16:42 |
| lupine_85 | but it really is very clear-cut inside the EU | 16:43 |
| chem|st | TimmyT: or remove the sd card and it boots maemo? | 16:43 |
| TimmyT | let me try | 16:43 |
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| vi__ | lupine_85: I know | 16:43 |
| lupine_85 | (apparently, americans lack any kind of consumer protection. poor sods) | 16:43 |
| vi__ | lupine_85: if a company is obliged to replace a failed device within the 2 year period, are they allowed to take into account the deppreciation of said device? | 16:43 |
| chem|st | vi__: nope | 16:44 |
| lupine_85 | of course not | 16:44 |
| lupine_85 | the EU legislation states they have to bring the product back into conformity | 16:44 |
| chem|st | only insurance companies do and I am not sure if that is legal either | 16:44 |
| lupine_85 | they can do that with a repair or by replacing the whole thing or by giving you the cash | 16:44 |
| vi__ | so they have to replace my device with somthing of the value that the device was worth at purchase? | 16:44 |
| lupine_85 | (all the cash) | 16:44 |
| lupine_85 | if they want to replace it, they have to replace it with something that can reasonably be called a replacement | 16:45 |
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| chem|st | vi__: the price you paid | 16:45 |
| lupine_85 | retail value is one aspect of that | 16:45 |
| vi__ | interesting | 16:45 |
| lupine_85 | (the N8 is much cheaper new than an N900, the E7 is about the same price) | 16:45 |
| lupine_85 | but features are also of import | 16:45 |
| vi__ | what if I purchased the device second hand? | 16:45 |
| chem|st | I would take on with an E7 but never an N8 | 16:45 |
| lupine_85 | if you bought the N900 because it has maemo, a non-maemo device is not a replacement | 16:45 |
| chem|st | they can send me an n950 if they want | 16:45 |
| vi__ | chem|st: yeah right... | 16:46 |
| lupine_85 | vi__, you'd need to check whether the warranty transferred | 16:46 |
| TimmyT | chem|st: i did, didn't solve the problem. but before reflashing i've to find its problem and solve that, cause if i install multiboot after reflashing, this problem may be seen again | 16:46 |
| lupine_85 | in the UK, SoGA covers second-hand goods, so it just changes who you contact | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | lupine_85: Commercial second hand sale | 16:46 |
| chem|st | TimmyT: it will be seen again! | 16:46 |
| lupine_85 | I *believe* nokia's 2-year limited european warranty is transferrable | 16:46 |
| vi__ | SoGA==sale of goods act? | 16:46 |
| lupine_85 | I might be wrong there | 16:46 |
| lupine_85 | ja | 16:46 |
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| lupine_85 | life is easier if you can go solely on the terms of the warranty nokia offer | 16:46 |
| TimmyT | so how to solve it? | 16:46 |
| lupine_85 | because then everything is on a single piece of paper that you both agreed to | 16:47 |
| lupine_85 | SoGA covers the contract made with the person you bought the phone from | 16:47 |
| TimmyT | i just need a shell access to the root | 16:47 |
| lupine_85 | which is different to nokia corporation (who the warranty is with) most of the time | 16:47 |
| chem|st | TimmyT: some of us in here are so fed up with this topic you can call yourself lucky I talk to you about it, go to tmo and look for multiboot I am sure this is documented somewhere | 16:48 |
| chem|st | lupine_85: in some cases the warranty is with the distributor and not the company, in that case you need to go to the shop you bought it from | 16:49 |
| lupine_85 | chem|st, I guess it differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction | 16:49 |
| lupine_85 | in my case, my N900 came with a warranty sheet with nokia corp's finland address on it | 16:50 |
| lupine_85 | it was nice and clear cut | 16:50 |
| chem|st | lol now you need a jailbreaked iphone to get a SSL security-patch^^ | 16:50 |
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| chem|st | lupine_85: that's for nokia I know but you wrote so "in-general" I had to negate | 16:51 |
| lupine_85 | good catch then. s/nokia/the company your warranty is with/ | 16:51 |
| chem|st | lupine_85: you can have an extended warranty with your retailer too... | 16:52 |
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| lupine_85 | sure, but anyone who buys one of those is probably on crack | 16:52 |
| chem|st | s/can/may/ | 16:52 |
| infobot | chem|st meant: lupine_85: you may have an extended warranty with your retailer too... | 16:52 |
| lupine_85 | at least in the UK | 16:52 |
| lupine_85 | I have insurance with my retailer, and SoGA applies to the contract between me and my retailer | 16:53 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: on some stuff it's worth it | 16:53 |
| lupine_85 | the only warranty I have is with nokia | 16:53 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: i know somebody who had dell laptop with one of those | 16:53 |
| chem|st | well 100€ for 5y warranty sounds not that bad does it? the evil thing is they want to sell your soul to some insurance company too... | 16:53 |
| TimmyT | how to mount mmcblk0p2 in the terminal of android? | 16:53 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: she had laptop fixed like 5 times | 16:53 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: after 5th time they gave her £400 voucher to buy new laptop | 16:53 |
| lupine_85 | chem|st, I'm already covered against engineering faults for up to 6 years for free | 16:53 |
| lupine_85 | insurance covers against accidental damage or theft, as it should | 16:54 |
| lupine_85 | what does an extended warranty cover that isn't already covered? | 16:54 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: 6 years for free? | 16:54 |
| lupine_85 | yes. SoGA | 16:54 |
| jacekowski | that's BS | 16:54 |
| jacekowski | it's UP to | 16:54 |
| jacekowski | and reasonable life expectancy | 16:54 |
| jacekowski | with mobile phones life expectancy is 3 years tops | 16:54 |
| lupine_85 | yes, and reasonable life expectancy of a £500 smart phone is not "2 years" | 16:54 |
| jacekowski | i've seen table somewhere | 16:54 |
| chem|st | lupine_85: read the footnotes, your insurance wont cover outside warranty as you may think it does | 16:54 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: it's lenght of contract | 16:55 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: longest contract you can get with given phone | 16:55 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: and not even day longer | 16:55 |
| lupine_85 | chem|st, au contraire, my insurance doesn't cover me *inside* warranty | 16:55 |
| lupine_85 | for mechanical faults | 16:55 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: lupine_85 if length of contract it is 12m if not a new contract | 16:55 |
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| lupine_85 | it does cover me outside warranty for mechanical faults, and it covers me all the time for theft, loss, accidental damage | 16:56 |
| jacekowski | longest contract i said | 16:56 |
| lupine_85 | jacekowski, you can buy N900s without a contract... | 16:56 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: so? | 16:56 |
| chem|st | lupine_85: with dayprice of the device | 16:56 |
| lupine_85 | so why is the contract the deciding factor on how long the phone hardware is meant to last ? | 16:56 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: expected lifetime is based on contract lenghts | 16:56 |
| peterbjornxz | whats a easy way to have the battery charge in fedora | 16:57 |
| chem|st | lupine_85: that's an insurance thing | 16:57 |
| lupine_85 | jacekowski, do you have a precedent handy ? | 16:57 |
| peterbjornxz | doesnt have to be fully functional | 16:57 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: not here | 16:57 |
| peterbjornxz | aslong at it keeps my device running | 16:57 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: i have at home | 16:57 |
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| lupine_85 | I have http://www.which.co.uk/mobile/advice-and-support/dealing-with-mobile-phone-problems/mobile-phone-returns-and-exchanges/ | 16:58 |
| lupine_85 | 'You have six years to take a claim to court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland' | 16:58 |
| vi__ | no scotland??? | 16:58 |
| vi__ | BAH | 16:58 |
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| jacekowski | lupine_85: that's different thing | 16:58 |
| lupine_85 | no, that's SoGA | 16:58 |
| vi__ | we don't even have citizens arrest here. | 16:58 |
| lupine_85 | talking about mobile phones | 16:58 |
| chem|st | lupine_85: the insurance had full cover of all, what I got was 220€ as a new device would be 390€ and the usage was already close to a year of use... | 16:59 |
| lupine_85 | chem|st, so you chose a bad insurance policy | 16:59 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: no, that's how long you have after it failed | 16:59 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: so if it fails 1st day you have it, you have 6 years to go to court | 16:59 |
| lupine_85 | I'm covered for the full retail value of the phone for accidental damage, loss, theft or - after another 6 months - mechanical faults | 16:59 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: if it fails after 3+ years you can't do anything | 16:59 |
| lupine_85 | jacekowski, no, all you have to show is that it was an inherent fault in the product | 16:59 |
| lupine_85 | and something like the N900's dodgy USB port is pretty clear-cut in that regard | 17:00 |
| lupine_85 | anyway, neither of us are lawyers and we're probably both still in warranty at the moment | 17:00 |
| lupine_85 | if my USB port falls out in a year and a half, we'll be able to do this with some better data | 17:00 |
| x29a | anybody have a clue what the number after "fremantle" states with those versions: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/q/qt-mobility/ | 17:01 |
| x29a | like fremantle0-fremantle13 | 17:02 |
| lupine_85 | vi__, scottish SoGA is predominately the same, but has some variations | 17:02 |
| lupine_85 | anyway, hurry up and secede so I can move up there | 17:02 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: give me a sec | 17:04 |
| x29a | or what "tp" or "0fn" could mean? | 17:04 |
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| jacekowski | lupine_85: http://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/wordpress/eu-2-year-guarantee-sales-of-goods-act-gives-us-6-years-to-claim-for-faulty-appliances/ | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | one thing | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | but i'm trying to find specific chapter in soga | 17:07 |
| lupine_85 | jacekowski, I'd suggest that if taken into account at all, contract duration would be a minimum, not a maximum, length of time you'd expect your very expensive phone to last | 17:07 |
| lupine_85 | 'whilst it might be considered reasonable for a fault to develop on a £200 washing machine after 2 years washing for a family of 4 every day it might not be considered reasonable for a washing machine costing £600 to suffer the same.' | 17:08 |
| lupine_85 | it's a considered position which I agree with | 17:08 |
| lupine_85 | if you're paying £500 for a device, you expect it to last more than peanut time | 17:08 |
| lupine_85 | but we won't know what the courts think until someone takes an N900 before them | 17:08 |
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| lupine_85 | 'There needs to be a fault that was present on the day of sale even though it only became apparent later on' <-- overly-fragile USB socket seems to fit that perfectly, to me | 17:09 |
| jacekowski | 14 Implied terms about quality or fitness. | 17:10 |
| jacekowski | (2B) | 17:10 |
| jacekowski | For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods— | 17:10 |
| jacekowski | (e) | 17:10 |
| jacekowski | durability | 17:10 |
| jacekowski | 6 years is absolute maximum | 17:11 |
| SpeedEvil | For white goods, maybe. | 17:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oh - misread | 17:11 |
| jacekowski | phones, laptops, electronics have much lower life expectancy | 17:11 |
| jacekowski | cheap electronic | 17:11 |
| jacekowski | and yes, £500 phone is cheap | 17:12 |
| lupine_85 | no, it's towards the top of the price distribution | 17:13 |
| jacekowski | no, it's cheap | 17:13 |
| lupine_85 | they start getting more expensive when you add satellite phones and bling | 17:13 |
| jacekowski | for additional money you don't get longer life expectancy | 17:13 |
| lupine_85 | of course you do | 17:13 |
| jacekowski | you get more features | 17:13 |
| lupine_85 | the washing machine example was provided just so | 17:13 |
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| jacekowski | or brand or whatever | 17:13 |
| jacekowski | and £500 phone is cheap | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | whatever you say | 17:14 |
| lupine_85 | I really don't think it is | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | very cheap | 17:14 |
| lupine_85 | do you have a graph handy ? | 17:14 |
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| jacekowski | all electronics from china is cheap | 17:14 |
| rly | Phones used to be 3000 euros or so. | 17:14 |
| lupine_85 | something showing distribution of phones sold | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | just because it comes from there | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | rly: exactly | 17:14 |
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| jacekowski | for 3000 eur you expected bit more | 17:15 |
| lupine_85 | phones bought for £500 in 2010 would be close to the top of the graph, I suspect | 17:15 |
| jacekowski | it doesn't matter | 17:15 |
| jacekowski | even most expensive consumer phone is still cheap | 17:15 |
| rly | Today you cannot buy more expensive phones. | 17:15 |
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| lupine_85 | now you're taking an exciting long view | 17:15 |
| rly | Because nobody is going to setup a manafacturing process for it. | 17:15 |
| rly | manufacturing* | 17:15 |
| lupine_85 | anyway, like I said, we won't know how the SoGA applies until someone tries to apply it | 17:16 |
| jacekowski | lupine_85: if they would have 6 years instead of 3 it would cost 2x as much | 17:16 |
| rly | chem|st: in unrelated news; my GPS works! :) | 17:16 |
| lupine_85 | we can make educated guesses, of course, and our educated guesses differ | 17:16 |
| lupine_85 | that's perfectly fine by me | 17:16 |
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| jacekowski | lupine_85: it's same thing with industrial stuff | 17:17 |
| rly | An industrial computer in a nice box costs about 50000 euros. | 17:17 |
| jacekowski | why normal PLC processor costs £2000 safety rated version costs £5000 | 17:18 |
| rly | It usually comes with some other stuff too. | 17:18 |
| jacekowski | and it's same thing inside | 17:18 |
| jacekowski | and it costs only £100 to make one | 17:18 |
| rly | It basically depends on the amount of labels put on it. | 17:18 |
| rly | And warranty's for when someone dies, etc. | 17:18 |
| jacekowski | and costs of replacement after 5 years after processor dies | 17:18 |
| rly | warranties* | 17:19 |
| jacekowski | that's how warranty works | 17:19 |
| SpeedEvil | lupine_85: Tries to apply it in a lower court, and appeals to a higher one, who clarifies the law - AIUI | 17:19 |
| jacekowski | you pay for it | 17:19 |
| chem|st | rly: \o/ | 17:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The lower courts don't set precedent. | 17:19 |
| rly | chem|st: are the maps cached on the device, btw? | 17:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | rly: you can download the maps from some site I fotgot for n900 | 17:19 |
| chem|st | rly: yeah | 17:20 |
| rly | SpeedEvil: so, in principle you don't need Internet for maps then. Nice. | 17:20 |
| chem|st | rly: if you talk nokiamaps | 17:20 |
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| rly | chem|st: ovimaps. | 17:20 |
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| rly | chem|st: which is likely what you meant. | 17:20 |
| chem|st | rly: you can upload all maps you need via desktop | 17:20 |
| rly | chem|st: are they still kept up to date? | 17:21 |
| * lupine_85 wonders if there is a legal precedent yet | 17:21 | |
| chem|st | sure | 17:21 |
| lupine_85 | obviously, not for an N900 - they've not been around long enough | 17:21 |
| rly | There are also open-source applications which provides navigation for the n900. | 17:21 |
| nid0 | hold on, whats the issue being talked about? replacing a fauly n900 usb fuckup in the uk? | 17:21 |
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| lupine_85 | but rather, for other small expensive carryable electronic devices | 17:21 |
| chem|st | but I use mappero, voice guided navigation with google routing on osm | 17:21 |
| lupine_85 | nid0, it's a bit abstract | 17:21 |
| lupine_85 | for what it's worth, I use mappero too | 17:21 |
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| rly | In what category is that? | 17:22 |
| rly | I assume I can install that via that HAM thing. | 17:23 |
| lupine_85 | not a clue. I tend to use apt | 17:23 |
| lupine_85 | it might be called maemo-mapper | 17:23 |
| chem|st | rly: navigation | 17:23 |
| chem|st | or location? | 17:23 |
| rly | So, can you also call via SIP with this device? | 17:23 |
| chem|st | rly: SIP jabbertalk amsn-with-video skype-with-video etc | 17:24 |
| rly | chem|st: how does Skype work? Is there an official release? | 17:25 |
| rly | chem|st: (I am a Skype user already) | 17:25 |
| chem|st | rly: it is already integrated | 17:25 |
| vi__ | rly: skype is built in and made of fail | 17:25 |
| rly | vi__: made of fail, how so? | 17:26 |
| chem|st | vi__: ^^ | 17:26 |
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| vi__ | rly: most of the time IT DOESNT FUCKING WORK | 17:26 |
| vi__ | GRRRRRRR | 17:26 |
| chem|st | rly: it is a bit buggy on video... eats your battery sometimes when loggedin and so on | 17:26 |
| chem|st | vi__: WFM... | 17:26 |
| rly | vi__: via a desktop PC it does happen to always work here. | 17:26 |
| vi__ | rly audio is choppy to the point that it is unuseable | 17:27 |
| chem|st | I barely use it since it is microsoft now... | 17:27 |
| rly | chem|st: do you use any app like that on your phone? | 17:27 |
| rly | chem|st: do you just like call in the normal way all the time? | 17:27 |
| vi__ | rly: and now owned by microsoft so only a matter of time before obsolescence | 17:27 |
| chem|st | rly: I used to use all of them, but use barely any anywhere anymore (anyany) | 17:28 |
| rly | vi__: except in corporate zombie land. | 17:28 |
| vi__ | rly: wut? | 17:28 |
| chem|st | rly: oh SIP is my normal landline at home and I have it logged in whenever I have wifi... | 17:28 |
| rly | vi__: big companies can exert control over communication setups like that. | 17:28 |
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| vi__ | I meant it is only a matter of time before m$ft break backwards compatability with their own product | 17:29 |
| chem|st | vi__: as they do with all products | 17:29 |
| vi__ | leaving n900 skype broke and uselss | 17:29 |
| vi__ | gah, I dislike m$ft intensely | 17:29 |
| rly | I dislike that there are 1000 versions of the same type of software. | 17:30 |
| rly | You cannot possibly try all of them. | 17:30 |
| vi__ | you hate choice? | 17:30 |
| rly | vi__: I think it can be independently verified how well something works. | 17:31 |
| chem|st | rly: jabber meets everything nowadays... | 17:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/937/ independant verification | 17:31 |
| rly | vi__: I would rather have that there is some committee, with people like you that decide these things for me. | 17:31 |
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| rly | vi__: it has been an established fact that people do not like choice and are pretty bad at doing so. | 17:32 |
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| vi__ | I don't get it. Your pro or con choice? | 17:33 |
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| jaska | youre giving him a choice, he doesnt want that?:) | 17:34 |
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| admiral0 | hi | 17:34 |
| vi__ | well if you don't like to choose. I give you no choice other than to accept the burden of personal choice! | 17:34 |
| psycho_oreos | a committee that decides which things are suitable for end users = what iphone already does. | 17:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | their epic `walled garden' approach. | 17:35 |
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| rly | I like freedom of the free market in that if I don't like a particular product, I can pick another one. | 17:35 |
| rly | I don't like that there is so much choice (basically tons of mediocre products instead of a few good ones). | 17:36 |
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| rly | With the iphone applications are blocked which go against Apple interests. | 17:36 |
| rly | So, that is not independent. | 17:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | but you do have a _committee_ that _decides_ what you should _have_ | 17:37 |
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| rly | Sure, but it is not an independent committee. | 17:37 |
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| rly | It is more of a theoretical abstraction, I know. | 17:37 |
| rly | In the real world no such thing exists. | 17:37 |
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| psycho_oreos | no it doesn't, people have differing opinions to everything. With linux, its somewhat plainly evident that there's always bazillion choices no matter how you look at it. | 17:39 |
| chem|st | rly: with maemo put on a smartphone-computer monster, s/o switched on the light at the end of the tunnel, elop made it become a train running all over, now we are stuck again with shit iphone, crap umbrella corp. google and upcoming microshit (not to mention all other phone os'es you do not want to see survive the market change in the next days) | 17:39 |
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| psycho_oreos | and a committee that cannot enforce any ruling/policy is as useful as advisors | 17:40 |
| rly | chem|st: the only reason I bought it was because it was the only product that had no walled garden. | 17:41 |
| Sicelo | wow, easy debian can use usb0 connection flawlessly ;) | 17:41 |
| rly | chem|st: it is also a good way to learn the ARM platform. | 17:41 |
| psycho_oreos | people probably still wouldn't care about what advisors said (as plainly evident as those who enable extras-{testing,devel}, or overclock their device) are abundant. | 17:41 |
| rly | chem|st: and lots of other reinforcing effects. | 17:41 |
| vi__ | I just want a linux pocket computer FFS | 17:41 |
| vi__ | I has lots of money | 17:41 |
| vi__ | PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD | 17:41 |
| vi__ | IN ALL THAT IS HOLY | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Define lots. | 17:42 |
| vi__ | SOMONE MAKE A DECENT PRODUCT | 17:42 |
| rly | vi__: what about the openmoko successor? | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's a few million, ... | 17:42 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil ...some | 17:42 |
| vi__ | openmoko...? | 17:42 |
| vi__ | BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAA! | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 17:43 |
| rly | vi__: is it that terrible? | 17:43 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: I would pay 800€ for maemo devices if known to be for good the next gen... but dropping support within 11 month makes it BS raining over me | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: it's still using that shower radio case, no hw kbd, a terrible touchpanel... | 17:43 |
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| chem|st | and to speak of maemo in terms of debian based maemo | 17:44 |
| vi__ | some of us only 'upgrade' every few years and save a reasonable sum in the interim | 17:44 |
| kerio | i just want some love by nokia :( | 17:44 |
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| vi__ | i want meego to not suck ass so much | 17:44 |
| kerio | but nooooo | 17:44 |
| kerio | i have to buy a w7 phone | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: plus it's designed to be built in the 100s, not in the 100k volumes | 17:44 |
| kerio | elop can choke on a million dicks | 17:44 |
| vi__ | I want SOOO much for meego to stop sucking ass. | 17:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | To make a good device, you either need to invest about $5m in making one device, or $8m in making many thousands. | 17:45 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: fpgas can likely power a phone now. | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | dudes, is it Friday and I missed that? | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | rly: you're using buzzwords without clue. | 17:45 |
| vi__ | rly: easy rly, you are preaching to 3 hardware engineers. | 17:46 |
| chem|st | BULLSHIT BINGO! | 17:46 |
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| rly | SpeedEvil: are they too big? | 17:46 |
| vi__ | chem|st: synergy! | 17:46 |
| vi__ | chem|st: vertical integration! | 17:46 |
| kerio | i doubt fpgas can hold that much power | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: suck power like mad | 17:46 |
| kerio | the n900 uses peaks of 1A for the radio | 17:47 |
| chem|st | vi__: web 2.0 | 17:47 |
| kerio | fpgas are just not a good battery, imo | 17:47 |
| vi__ | chem|st: heh | 17:47 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, I don't know the exact constants. | 17:47 |
| chem|st | all those are on my BS bingo sheet! | 17:47 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: but computationally, AFAIK, that should be possible. | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 17:47 |
| kerio | rly: computationally, it's also possible with an i7 | 17:48 |
| vi__ | chem|st: proactive customer allignment! | 17:48 |
| kerio | so what | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | theoretically I can built an i9+ with FPGAs | 17:48 |
| rly | kerio: gps isn't. | 17:48 |
| kerio | huh? why not? | 17:48 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: I could build 100 z80 beowolf cluster | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | rly: Computationally, sure. | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | rly: The issue is that FPGS inherently takes lots more power than customised circuitry designed for one task. | 17:49 |
| kerio | chem|st: web scale! | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | rly: Make a car from lego. | 17:49 |
| rly | SpeedEvil: how much more are we talking about? | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | rly: It can be done. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | rly: But it's not going to perform well. | 17:49 |
| rly | I think the military uses reconfigurable radio. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | rly: 10-100*, depending on stuff. | 17:49 |
| vi__ | rly: easily several orders of magnitude | 17:49 |
| kerio | the fuck am i reading | 17:49 |
| vi__ | rly: not to mention the costs are also significantly higher for manufacture | 17:50 |
| rly | vi__: in large quantities. | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and *volume* | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't forget chip *volume* | 17:50 |
| chem|st | kerio: field analysis | 17:50 |
| rly | SpeedEvil: ok, I didn't know it was that much. | 17:50 |
| vi__ | rly: yes. basically You will NEVER see an FPGA powered phone. Although there is the GNU FPGA SDR | 17:51 |
| rly | So, basically only fuel cells might someday make FPGA phones possible. | 17:51 |
| vi__ | rly *facepoalm* | 17:51 |
| kerio | rly: or maybe some alien technology! | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's obviously not an arbitrary unlimited amount of available real estate on embedded PCB | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Power of chips is also a metric for size of chip. | 17:51 |
| rly | vi__: I said that before I read your stuff. | 17:51 |
| rly | vi__: It was not a conclusion based on what you said. | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | The size of the chip rises with inefficiency. | 17:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | Cost and chip area are proportional. | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Even neglecting power. | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka *volume* | 17:52 |
| vi__ | rly: why are you so keen to have an FPGA phone? | 17:52 |
| psycho_oreos | number crunching? | 17:53 |
| kerio | reconfigurable opcodes are not that useful imo | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | definitely they aren't for a GSM phone | 17:53 |
| rly | vi__:reconfigurable hardware is extremely 'cool'. | 17:53 |
| TimmyT | is it possible to flash only NOLO bootloader? | 17:53 |
| psycho_oreos | yes | 17:53 |
| rly | vi__: now, perhaps for phones it is a huge mistake. | 17:53 |
| TimmyT | psycho_oreos: how? | 17:54 |
| rly | vi__: I am not a EE person. (I would love to know more about it, though.) | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's exactly this >< much you could do better on a FPGA than on e.g an ARM core | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | That's not quite fair. | 17:54 |
| TimmyT | i've installed multiboot and it has broken my phone and i cant access maemo | 17:54 |
| psycho_oreos | TimmyT, read the topic | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, with adequate software support, it could be awesome. | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | But - it would basically require a JIT-like compiler. | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: if reconfigurable hw is so extremely cool, then please go and build, AND CONFIGURE it yourself. I think it's a nightmare basically | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | At best. | 17:55 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: why is it a nightmware? | 17:55 |
| vi__ | TimmyT: re-flash time | 17:55 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: the book I read didn't go until 2011 tech. | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - compiler notices you doing a lot of floating point ops, so it reconfigures most of the cache as floating point hardware | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: it is also possible to drill a hole into the CPU. Why would you want to flash NOLO?? | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | FPGAs have _never_ been power competitive for general purpose computation. | 17:56 |
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| vi__ | s/general purpose/*general purpose/g | 17:56 |
| vi__ | s/general purpose/*general purpose*/g | 17:56 |
| vi__ | /s/general purpose/*general purpose*/g | 17:56 |
| vi__ | /s/general purpose/*general purpose* | 17:57 |
| vi__ | s/general purpose/*general purpose* | 17:57 |
| vi__ | -_- | 17:57 |
| infobot | what's up vi___?? | 17:57 |
| TimmyT | DocScrutinizer: todaye i've installed multiboot and nitdroid, when i reboot the device i see there is no option for maemo and i cant boot up maemo. i tried as much as i know and possible to add an option for maemo, but it was imposible, so now i want to install NOLO | 17:57 |
| TimmyT | if possible | 17:58 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't think one is able to change other people's comments, even if you got the syntax right. It only matches against what you previously said | 17:58 |
| vi__ | lame | 17:58 |
| psycho_oreos | s/lame/win/ | 17:58 |
| psycho_oreos | see? :) | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: I suggest you drill a hole into CPU chip. Honestly you can not install NOLO, and you never usually want to reflash NOLO as it never gets changed | 17:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: please read /topic! | 17:59 |
| vi__ | TimmyT: Re-flash RootFS and take it from there | 17:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: if NOLO was defect, you'd not see *anything* on N900 screen, and no reaction whatsoever on powerup. Then you can reflash NOLO to reset it to factory state. But there's no way you or any app changed NOLO for any reasonable purpose, so you usually don't want to reflash it either | 18:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | Lemme guess why he asks that, he didn't bother backing up or reading the various tmo threads on how multiboot can screw up one's setup and now he's desperate | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: for all further multiboot/nitdroid related questions, please join #nitdroid and ask there | 18:02 |
| vi__ | TimmyT: basically you f*cked it up and now you have to do a re-flash | 18:02 |
| vi__ | TimmyT: sorry bro... | 18:02 |
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| vi__ | there is a #nitdroid???? | 18:03 |
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| psycho_oreos | ironically he did ask his previous questions in the nitdroid channel but not in this particular case | 18:03 |
| vi__ | imma gunna gop there and ask how to fix mah meemo. | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: sorry if we sound harsh, but we are *really* fed up with multiboot problems | 18:03 |
| psycho_oreos | there's even #nitrdoid-help | 18:03 |
| TimmyT | everyone there are died, i just followed the instructions in their website | 18:03 |
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| TimmyT | DocScrutinizer: so wat can i use instead multiboot? | 18:04 |
| TimmyT | does uboot work with nitdroid? | 18:04 |
| psycho_oreos | it pays to understand why certain softwares were available _only_ in extras-{testing,devel} repository. | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | if nitdroid guys were a bit smarter, they'd have managed to get their stuff running with uBoot | 18:05 |
| psycho_oreos | not without repacking nitdroid's kernel for use with uboot | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I heard it doesn't work, due to nitdroid issues | 18:05 |
| TimmyT | ok, so f*ck nitdroid, does maemo work with uboot? | 18:05 |
| TimmyT | :D | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | and multiboot is a really nasty hack that inevitably leads to >>REFLASH NOW PLEASE<< | 18:06 |
| psycho_oreos | and that sounds rather interesting, nitdroid's kernel not willing to work with uboot, oh well | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's what the chan topic is telling you | 18:06 |
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| psycho_oreos | yes maemo can work with uboot or I'm sure all the meego-ce users would be regretting they dualbooted their N900 with meego-ce | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: sure maemo and meego and even SHR work with uBoot | 18:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just friggin nitdroid thinks it's the windows of embedded and can take over the device | 18:07 |
| TimmyT | :D, now lets install meego and SHR :-p | 18:07 |
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| psycho_oreos | and lets not forget to backup one's data, read all the warning labels, do some background research before plunging in only to make mistakes and regretting it | 18:08 |
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| TimmyT | is it possible to make a raw image from rootsh? | 18:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: (everyone there are died,) ponder why! ;-P | 18:09 |
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| psycho_oreos | raw image from rootsh = no, not without a custom kernel, custom boot command and extensive re-working on various userland tools to get it all working | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: not exactly, but you can use awesome backupmenu app to do raw images | 18:10 |
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| TimmyT | tnx | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | all hail to robbiethe1st | 18:10 |
| psycho_oreos | the current backupmenu doesn't do raw images, it just creates tarball because raw images doesn't work well with bad PEB afaik | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 18:11 |
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| TimmyT | i'm recharging the phone to reflash it again, | 18:11 |
| chem|st | good boy :) | 18:11 |
| merlin1991 | I remember a blogpost about going images with fiasco-gen for instantbackuping | 18:11 |
| merlin1991 | s/going/doing/ | 18:12 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: I remember a blogpost about doing images with fiasco-gen for instantbackuping | 18:12 |
| psycho_oreos | and yes +1 to robbiethe1st. Genuine lifesaver to the rather defunct osso-backup which is only useful if you're in utopian land | 18:12 |
| TimmyT | you have any idea about installing meego on internal storage? | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you now have a shell in BUM, so you *could* use flash* tools | 18:12 |
| merlin1991 | TimmyT: I read that it's actually slower than on sd o_O | 18:12 |
| chem|st | TimmyT: wrong channel | 18:12 |
| merlin1991 | TimmyT: #meego-arm might be more helpfull | 18:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: ack | 18:13 |
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| TimmyT | before i asked questions there, but kids of this channel were answering there too ! | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: try uSD first, then ask e.g. MohammadAG when he's around. He did it | 18:13 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ack as in acknowledged? :) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | re raw image, shell in BUM: | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# mtd_debug --help | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | usage: mtd_debug info <device> | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | mtd_debug read <device> <offset> <len> <dest-filename> | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | mtd_debug write <device> <offset> <len> <source-filename> | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | mtd_debug erase <device> <offset> <len> | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for NAND | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | for eMMC things are rather trivial | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | as there's no OOB | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i.e. no handling of bad blocks needed | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | eMMC controlled does that transparently | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | disclaimer: I haven't *checked* if mtd_debug handles bad blocks correctly, just assumed it as otherwise the tool was rather redundant aka useless | 18:18 |
| psycho_oreos | I think that'll add a whole new twist for robbiethe1st if he decides to use that method instead :) | 18:18 |
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| psycho_oreos | afaik when booted up into backupmenu, one has access to limited number of tools and probably stuff coming from mtd-utils will need to be copied over manually | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: alas his USB fell out? | 18:19 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, yeah I saw that when I was contemplating on posting new odd things I've found with using backupmenu and stock maemo kernel | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: obviously you have access to the very rootfs only. No /opt etc | 18:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/ss to/ss to tools on/ | 18:21 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: psycho_oreos: obviously you have access to tools on the very rootfs only. No /opt etc | 18:21 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, I suspect that whatever tools you have in busybox is whatever you can use in backupmenu's console. I personally cannot verify that but that's what I believe :) I saw a binary tarball inside backupmenu's installation directory. | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ll `which mtd_debug` | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 2011-03-06 19:48 /usr/sbin/mtd_debug -> /opt/maemo/usr/sbin/mtd_debug | 18:22 |
| psycho_oreos | I know :) but those needs to be copied over into backupmenu if one wishes to utilise those | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I leave it up to robbie to figure out the details ;-D | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm happy with my system architect role | 18:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | giving advice/criticism every now and then | 18:24 |
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| psycho_oreos | and having extensive access to hardware stuff, lucky you :) | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | a meego-rescue-initrd with mtdtools and proper support to access all filesystems was a cool complementary pkg to backupmenu then | 18:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | almost as cool as a x86 based fiascogen converting those raw images to proper flasher image files | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | true one-click full backup&restore in vicinity | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | self comprised restore, not that internet based reinstaller... | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | even backup and restore kernels | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and CAL | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 18:30 |
| psycho_oreos | someone on tmo thread created a debian image with some tools for one to fix up their borked setup. That really brings up loads of possible avenues imo, even the idea of potentially having a custom kernel and initrd mounting and chrooting into an image that contains maemo UI with limited functionality and all the power tools the user needs to get their borked setup back on its feet or at least backup their data). | 18:32 |
| psycho_oreos | bah, missing opening brackets | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, debian image? like a chroot? | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | or a true bootimage? | 18:34 |
| NIN101 | that was probably me psycho_oreos. | 18:34 |
| * psycho_oreos goes and does a search | 18:34 | |
| psycho_oreos | your handle does sound familiar though :D | 18:35 |
| psycho_oreos | not sure on what was what, I just saw that and read a bit about it before moving onto other threads. | 18:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | yes its you :D http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75369 | 18:36 |
| NIN101 | :-). However, I think debian is kinda overkill for that. | 18:38 |
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| psycho_oreos | that's what I thought much later.. I started pondering the idea of harnessing matchbox/hildon UI instead and having the entire thing inside a chroot image but not only that have a kernel and/or initrd booting into that chroot setup, and with all the necessary power tools | 18:39 |
| NIN101 | hm | 18:41 |
| Pali | Hello | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: cool stuff! | 18:42 |
| Pali | can somebody help me with garage autobuilder errors? | 18:42 |
| psycho_oreos | hi | 18:42 |
| NIN101 | thx DocScrutinizer | 18:42 |
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| psycho_oreos | bah not a clue with garage autobuilder | 18:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer scratches "meego-rescue-initrd with mtd-utils" from todo list | 18:42 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: I'd love to help with charging | 18:42 |
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| Pali | garage autobuilder cannot find one SDK package | 18:43 |
| NIN101 | robbie gave me this DocScrutinizer, do you think this is ok? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1063391&postcount=9 I have not the slightest clue of the I2C bus tbh :-). | 18:43 |
| Pali | see: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/kernel-power_2.6.28-10power48/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: robbie's stuff is OK, it is origin ShadowJK/me | 18:44 |
| NIN101 | I think I'll try that finally this weekend. | 18:45 |
| Pali | X-Fade, are you here? | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: ping me if you got any questions regarding charging | 18:48 |
| NIN101 | Ok Doc, I will ;). Thx. | 18:49 |
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| angelox|laptop | Hi DocScrutinizer! | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hi | 19:17 |
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| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: I did call to Nokia,and they said i really need to bring My N900 :( | 19:25 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: I did call to Nokia,and they said i really need to bring My N900 :( | 19:25 |
| angelox|laptop | sorry repeated :*( | 19:25 |
| angelox|laptop | if at least i could flash kernel to remove uboot... | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: no problem, flashing kernel should be easy, as long as you get some proper 4.0V to battery connectors | 19:29 |
| antman8969 | has there been any word on the coding competition voting? | 19:30 |
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| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: That's a problem.. | 19:31 |
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| iluminator101 | after a kernel update n900 does not auto mount | 20:46 |
| iluminator101 | it shows up as nokia and the folder is empty | 20:47 |
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| ErwinJunge | kernel update of what? pc or the phone? | 20:54 |
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| x29a | anybody an idea, how i would tell qmake/linker/qtsdk information about mobility libs when its complaining (on deplay): dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found | 20:56 |
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| rly | How can I say 'wake up screen' without opening the keyboard? | 21:21 |
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| x29a | rly: programmatically? | 21:21 |
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| x29a | or just use the slider on the side? | 21:21 |
| rly | x29a: just the slider would be fine. | 21:22 |
| rly | x29a: thx | 21:22 |
| x29a | np | 21:22 |
| rly | How can I move a widget to another desktop? | 21:28 |
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| Mousey | drag? | 21:28 |
| rly | I tried that, but it just went to another desktop. | 21:29 |
| Sicelo | isn't that what you want? | 21:29 |
| rly | (without changing the position of the widget.) | 21:29 |
| x29a | why not put it where you want it to go? | 21:29 |
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| rly | x29a: I don't know how. | 21:31 |
| rly | It is an Amazon widget. | 21:31 |
| rly | Ok, I get it now. | 21:32 |
| rly | It is basically the same as E17 in this. | 21:32 |
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| rly | Ok, I got an 'Internal error' when I minimized some app. | 21:33 |
| rly | Not good. | 21:33 |
| mase76 | maybe badly programmed app. | 21:34 |
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| rly | mase76: it was the Web app ;) | 21:34 |
| mase76 | and? | 21:35 |
| rly | mase76: well, I would hope that the sole reason for just a device to exist, would actually work. | 21:35 |
| mase76 | who says, that it is well programmed ;) | 21:35 |
| rly | It seemed that Opera Mobile is better in some places, though. | 21:35 |
| rly | How can I pan the map on Google Maps, btw? | 21:35 |
| rly | The 'click' events are not passed in the desktop version, at least. | 21:36 |
| mase76 | in microb? | 21:37 |
| rly | y | 21:37 |
| mase76 | tried fenned? | 21:38 |
| mase76 | fennec | 21:38 |
| Sicelo | you may have to swipe from left to right, to activate Hover mode... should be able to pan thereafter in MicroB, rly | 21:38 |
| mase76 | in microb you can try, moving the stylus from the left edge to the right to get the mousepointer. | 21:39 |
| mase76 | Sicelo: that is what i wanted to say :) | 21:39 |
| Sicelo | ;) | 21:39 |
| rly | Thans | 21:40 |
| rly | Thanks | 21:40 |
| mase76 | called hovermode? did not know. | 21:40 |
| Sicelo | yeah, it is | 21:40 |
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| mase76 | btw: anybody got firefox sync to work with microb? it installs, starts, but is not configurable. | 21:45 |
| mase76 | therfor i use fennec. but it is such slow. | 21:45 |
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| rly | Sicelo: I get a mouse pointer under an angle when I do that. | 21:50 |
| rly | Sicelo: but in the desktop Google maps GUI you can drag the map. | 21:50 |
| rly | Sicelo: but dragging means that I have to release the mouse at some point and then drag. | 21:51 |
| rly | So, that's not going to work. | 21:51 |
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| ErwinJunge | rly: tap on the map once, use the arrow keys | 21:54 |
| ErwinJunge | That's why I do | 21:55 |
| ErwinJunge | s/why/what/ | 21:55 |
| infobot | ErwinJunge meant: That's what I do | 21:55 |
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| rly | Sicelo: I figured it out. | 21:55 |
| rly | ErwinJunge: that also works. | 21:56 |
| Sicelo | nice rly | 21:57 |
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| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: I could power on my device and put the battery(bad) to charge :) | 22:12 |
| angelox|laptop | i used one table charger that you call 'alien charger' for 10 minutes,it could boot itself and n900 is now charging | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine :-) | 22:13 |
| angelox|laptop | thanks all help! I guess it will charge finely | 22:13 |
| angelox|laptop | '''''' Or explode my n900 ''''''' | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 22:14 |
| angelox|laptop | haha | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, you should be able to flash after battery charged | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | do a proper backup, reflash completely, then get your fresh battery at Nokia care center | 22:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I cal the process alien charging. The charger is sufficiently geeky labeled by "noname charger" or "3rd party charger" | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw alien charging could even be done by Nokia table charger. I use this term just for charging that's not done in original device N900 | 22:19 |
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| angelox|laptop | i see... | 22:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Interesting - I hadn't seen this on phones before - well - this class - motorola phones being sold as 'splashproof' 'water resistant'... | 22:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Motorola Atrix, for example. | 22:29 |
| ShadowJK | Samsung and Nokia have videos demonstrating people diving with phones (in a pool) | 22:33 |
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| ShadowJK | A salesperson at localish consumer electronics part showed me a Samsung phone when I asked to see something rugged, and claimed it can take getting run over by a tractor. | 22:34 |
| mase76 | but opening a window when under water is not a good idea. | 22:34 |
| rly | What was the name of the Jabber application again? | 22:36 |
| rly | Searching for jabber in HAM shows no result. | 22:36 |
| angelox|laptop | Pidgim? | 22:36 |
| rly | No, it was something else. | 22:37 |
| rly | jabbertalk | 22:38 |
| rly | I just don't see it when I select 'All' applications. | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, my local phone shop had a phone in shop window, which was actually displayed in a cylinder filled with water and bubbles to make it visible | 22:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this funny stuff sit there for > 1 year | 22:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and sure it was a phone dummy, and sure after 6 months you could see the water drops on the inside of the device's display glass | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rly: you know about search? | 22:40 |
| Sicelo | rly: for jabber i use builtin Conversations | 22:40 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: I learned about prefix search 5 minutes ago. | 22:42 |
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| rly | DocScrutinizer: as for Google search, searching for jabbertalk software points at some Windows mobile software. | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, I referred to search in HAM - just select all then type searchstring | 22:42 |
| rly | And jabbering babies... | 22:42 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: yes, I did that. | 22:42 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: that is what I mean tby prefix searching. | 22:42 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: or does it infix searching? | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 22:43 |
| rly | I did not actually verify that. | 22:43 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: just 'talk' only shows eSpeakTime. | 22:43 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: jabber shows nothing. | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | strange | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | never did that search | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I'd think it should find jabber | 22:46 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: on maemo.org I also cannot find it. | 22:46 |
| rly | DocScrutinizer: can you show some proof that it exists at all? :P | 22:47 |
| Sicelo | what about apt-cache search jabber | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: do you think NOLO could get patched to have a higher Vbat(boot) threshold - i.e. do charging in NOLO (assuming it does at all, which is the case afaik) up to maybe 3.8V instead the 3.6V it's probably now | 22:48 |
| Sicelo | rly, on mine it shows mcabber, qutIM, | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | rly: only >><Sicelo> rly: for jabber i use builtin Conversations | 22:49 |
| rly | Sicelo: it shows some, but not that one. | 22:49 |
| rly | Sicelo: e.g. telepath-salut | 22:49 |
| rly | telepathy-salut* | 22:50 |
| rly | Sicelo: likely you just have some extra repository. | 22:50 |
| Sicelo | then it's a repo issue, | 22:50 |
| RzR950 | talking about jabber ? | 22:50 |
| rly | RzR950: yes | 22:50 |
| Sicelo | yeah, i'm not afraid to flash anytime :P | 22:50 |
| RzR950 | how are you using jabber on harmattan ? | 22:51 |
| Sicelo | but Conversations seems good enough rly | 22:51 |
| RzR950 | I was thinking about using bitlbee + i-chatter | 22:51 |
| RzR950 | irc-chatter | 22:51 |
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| rly | Sicelo: or .. Emacs O.O | 22:51 |
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| rly | Can I also sync my Imap mail so I can read it offline? | 22:54 |
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| rly | It seems that it only cached whatever I had read. | 22:54 |
| Sicelo | wiki has some info on that, forgot the link | 22:54 |
| Sicelo | from my bookmarks, not sure if that's the one, http://wiki.maemo.org/Improving_Modest_email_sync_reliability | 22:56 |
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| peterbjornxz | to what class of SD card does the eMMC compare | 23:59 |
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| flailingmonkey | SD card class is not a very complete measure | 23:59 |
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