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| GAN900 | People need to learn to clear the traffic lanes after a fender bender. | 01:13 |
|---|---|---|
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| javispedro | no, they should learn to keep crashing between themselves | 01:16 |
| javispedro | so that there's less traffic at the next toll booth. | 01:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | BRB - looting. | 01:30 |
| GAN900 | lol | 01:32 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, has it spread so far north? | 01:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | Not really. | 01:40 |
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| nid0 | all nice and quiet here, same as every night \o/ | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: hmm. As an experiment - I suppose that actually my device is now in a state where if everything was to horribly object to it not working properly, I'd know. | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Phone, SMS seems to work. | 01:41 |
| javispedro | good observation, but I wouldn't put my finger on that. | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | True | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Can't even get GPS to work for phototags | 01:44 |
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| Scorcerer | omaemo.org | 01:58 |
| javispedro | I seriously hope that's not pr0n.. | 01:59 |
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| yigal | hello | 04:59 |
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| yigal | peace brothers and sisters | 05:09 |
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| Termana | good morning | 10:06 |
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| robbiethe1st | Ok, guys, I've got a question. | 10:10 |
| robbiethe1st | http://wiki.meego.com/Talk:Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia | 10:10 |
| robbiethe1st | so, it says I need to send my ID/username and... "AID-XXXX"... what's the last number and where do I find it? | 10:10 |
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| robbiethe1st | Hey, that worked. I found it! | 10:11 |
| robbiethe1st | Seems that just asking solves problems, even if noone answers <_< | 10:11 |
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| Triscar0 | i have forgot my facebook pass, and cant restore it. but its stored on the web browser on my n900, is there any way i can "crack" it? | 10:25 |
| joga | isn't there a "forgot password" link in facebook | 10:25 |
| Triscar0 | yeah but cant get it to work. old mail | 10:26 |
| radiofree | translation: someone I know used my n900 to access facebook and they saved there password there, is there any way i can "crack" it? :P | 10:26 |
| joga | so old it can't remember your credentials? ;) | 10:26 |
| radiofree | there's a couple of tools for looking up stored firefox passwords, have a look for one of them | 10:26 |
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| Triscar0 | my email is shutdown and thats the one i use on fb and have always had autologin on fb | 10:28 |
| Triscar0 | lol radiofree!;) | 10:28 |
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| radiofree | Triscar0: it'll be somewhere in your profile folder | 10:29 |
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| radiofree | i haven't used a n900 in a while, but it's probably ~/.mozilla/ somewhere | 10:29 |
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| nid0 | im confused, if you've got the password saved on your n900 whats stopping you from logging in on your n900. | 10:30 |
| radiofree | maybe you need the old password to create a new one? | 10:31 |
| nid0 | you do, but you dont need it to change your email address. | 10:31 |
| * radiofree also doesn't have facebook, so that's another probably | 10:31 | |
| radiofree | ahh | 10:31 |
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| Triscar0 | the preinstalled browser on n900 isnt firefox? | 10:34 |
| Pali | X-Fade, are you here? | 10:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Triscar0: No. FF/Gecko /based/, but not FF | 10:37 |
| X-Fade | Pali: Yes. | 10:37 |
| robbiethe1st | It's got a custom UI | 10:37 |
| Pali | can you see at my problem with kernel-power in maemo.org package interface? | 10:37 |
| X-Fade | Pali: What is blocking it now? | 10:38 |
| Pali | new version is still not shown (v47) | 10:38 |
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| X-Fade | Pali: Did you change the source package? | 10:39 |
| Pali | I did not upload nothing | 10:39 |
| X-Fade | Pali: Someone was smart enough to actually change the original source file? | 10:39 |
| X-Fade | Pali: So the md5sum did not match anymore. | 10:40 |
| Pali | yes, I think I changed orig tarball | 10:40 |
| X-Fade | Never _ever_ do that :) | 10:40 |
| X-Fade | Now you need to upload a new version. | 10:40 |
| Pali | I'd like to relase new version v48, but I did not see v47 in package interface so I did not upload anything after v47 | 10:41 |
| X-Fade | Pali: Well, the problem is in your sources. You have uploaded a file with different contents and the same name. | 10:41 |
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| X-Fade | This completely breaks your package. | 10:42 |
| Pali | Ok, and can you fix that? | 10:42 |
| X-Fade | The only way to fix this is to upload a new version and source with a different name. | 10:42 |
| Pali | So I need to change debian version which will use other orig tarball? | 10:44 |
| X-Fade | The whole idea about these debian and orig tarballs is that you keep the original source in place and add your changes in the debian on. | 10:44 |
| X-Fade | *one | 10:45 |
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| Pali | Yes, I'd use orig tarball directly from kernel.org and in debian/patches are all patch files | 10:45 |
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| X-Fade | So you now need to upload a new version which uses another original source tarball. | 10:46 |
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| X-Fade | Which is strange of course :) | 10:46 |
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| Pali | Into v47 I added prefix 1: to version. Maemo repository ignore it? | 10:47 |
| X-Fade | Doesn't matter. | 10:47 |
| X-Fade | The problem is your source package. | 10:47 |
| Pali | Before version: "2.6.28-maemo46" after: "1:2.6.28-10power47" | 10:47 |
| X-Fade | And yes, it gets ignored in some places. | 10:47 |
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| Pali | And all using same orig tarball? | 10:48 |
| X-Fade | Just browse to the dir in the repo. | 10:48 |
| Pali | yes, only one tarball is here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel-power/ | 10:49 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, and that one is the one you have overwritten. | 10:49 |
| X-Fade | So you are screwed. | 10:50 |
| Pali | I did not know that I can overwrite files in repositories. | 10:50 |
| Pali | And it is not possible to change md5sum of this tarball in maemo.org package interface? | 10:51 |
| X-Fade | Pali: The problem is not there, it is in the .changes file. | 10:52 |
| X-Fade | Pali: The package gets checked when it is in incoming, and it doesn't match, so it is rejected. | 10:52 |
| Pali | Ok, I asked if you cannot change md5sum in interface, so when new file will be uploaded, it will not be rejected | 10:54 |
| X-Fade | Pali: The problem really isn't in the interface. | 10:55 |
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| X-Fade | Pali: The problem is that on promotion, the source files get copied to incoming. It then checks your .changes file and notices that the orig.tar.gz checksum doesn't match. (As you have overwritten it later) | 10:56 |
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| Pali | So new version v48 can use this orig tarball: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel-power/kernel-power_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz ? | 10:57 |
| Pali | Or I need to generate new with other name? | 10:57 |
| X-Fade | Pali: You can use the one that is there in a new version. | 10:58 |
| Pali | This above was overwritten when I uploaded v47. | 10:59 |
| Pali | So If I use this which is in v47 (which overwrite old), all will be OK? | 10:59 |
| X-Fade | Pali: Let's try :) | 11:00 |
| Pali | Ok. I will try to use this which is now in extras-devel | 11:00 |
| Pali | And if does not work I will try to create new version which will have other name for orig tarball | 11:01 |
| Pali | Ok, thanks very much for info | 11:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | Is it just me or is it really easy to fill up rootfs with syslog? :) | 12:07 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: ping | 12:09 |
| Pali | pong | 12:09 |
| freemangordon | Lets discuss the issue with kp here, not on tmo | 12:10 |
| Pali | ok | 12:10 |
| freemangordon | OK, my concern is that orig tarballs from maemo repos and kernel.org are different | 12:10 |
| Pali | yes | 12:11 |
| Pali | problem is that I overwited tarballs for kernel-power | 12:11 |
| freemangordon | it is stock nokia | 12:11 |
| Pali | and it then md5sum was incorrect | 12:11 |
| freemangordon | get it from maemo repos and overwrite it again | 12:12 |
| Pali | but If I change base version of kernel-power, I upload tarball with other name and all should be ok | 12:12 |
| freemangordon | all the patches trough time were against stock nokia source tarball | 12:12 |
| freemangordon | not against kernel.org version | 12:12 |
| Pali | now kernel-power need upstream tarball from kernel.org | 12:13 |
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| Pali | debian/rules needs it | 12:13 |
| Pali | and in debian/patches are stored all diffs against nokia stock kernel | 12:13 |
| freemangordon | but previous patches were not made against it, what is so hard to understand. Is it my Englsh? Sorry, not native English speaker. | 12:14 |
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| Pali | I understand you | 12:14 |
| freemangordon | I mean were not made against kernel.org version | 12:14 |
| Pali | now I kernel-power (in git) use: | 12:14 |
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| Pali | orig kernel.org tarball --> nokia stock patch1 --> nokia stock patch2 --> nokia stock ... --> other KP patch --> other KP patch | 12:15 |
| psycho_oreos | mainly because vanilla kernel (from kernel.org) doesn't contain any CPU compatibility with ARM for starters ;) | 12:15 |
| Pali | so when is applied other KP patch 1 kernel tree is same as nokia stock kernel! | 12:16 |
| Pali | psycho_oreos: So this is reason why I have first nokia stock patches | 12:16 |
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| Pali | orig kernel.org tarball + nokia patches is same as SDK version of kernel | 12:16 |
| freemangordon | Why then the patches from your git repo don't apply against tarball from maemo repos | 12:17 |
| Pali | it can be applied | 12:17 |
| freemangordon | no, they cannot | 12:17 |
| Pali | but you need know correct order and which | 12:17 |
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| freemangordon | hold on | 12:17 |
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| Pali | see in my git repo file debian/patches/series | 12:18 |
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| Pali | patches with name nokia-*.diff is nokia stock | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | what do you mean "see it" | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | I pull it | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | put orig tarball where it should be, according to your instructions | 12:18 |
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| freemangordon | and the result is that last successfuly applied patch is phys_to_page.diff | 12:19 |
| psycho_oreos | Pali, indeed | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | patch ext4-data-corruption.diff does not apply OK | 12:19 |
| Pali | against KP or stock? | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | against stock | 12:20 |
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| freemangordon | there are differences | 12:20 |
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| freemangordon | that is the reason why patch does not apply | 12:20 |
| Pali | and if you drop ext4 patch can you continue to apply patches? | 12:20 |
| freemangordon | and noone has idea what else is different | 12:20 |
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| Venemo_N950 | morning Maemo | 12:21 |
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| freemangordon | ext4-data-corruption.diff is second to last | 12:21 |
| Pali | Now I'm merging my git repo into kernel-power on garage | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | did not play to see if last applies corectly, it does not matter | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | why is that? | 12:21 |
| Pali | After ext4 are 2 other | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | ok, so what? | 12:22 |
| Pali | can you try disable this patch and try to apply next? | 12:22 |
| freemangordon | not now, i am in the office | 12:22 |
| Pali | ok, then tell me result | 12:23 |
| Pali | after I merge my git repo into garage I can look at all patches | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | but do you get my idea, inability to apply a patch against stock (or Nokia ) orig tarball means that kernel.org orig tarrball + nokia stock patch1 --> nokia stock patch2 --> nokia stock ... != | 12:24 |
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| freemangordon | maemo repos .orig tarball | 12:25 |
| freemangordon | which means that we have no clue what is in rusultant source | 12:25 |
| freemangordon | *resultant | 12:25 |
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| Macer | hm | 12:26 |
| Macer | think i am going to be an android convert and get a transformer | 12:26 |
| freemangordon | pali: what do you think? | 12:27 |
| Macer | if i can print from it i'm sold | 12:27 |
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| Pali | I will try to find error why KP+patches != nokia stock | 12:28 |
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| freemangordon | You mean kernel.org + pathces != nokia stock? | 12:29 |
| freemangordon | but still, isn't it easier to just use stock? | 12:30 |
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| Pali | I think KP+patches == stock, but you wrote that you had problem to apply patch | 12:30 |
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| freemangordon | that is what was used by titan, matan, me, all other KP developers. | 12:30 |
| freemangordon | yes, I made a post ont TMO about that | 12:31 |
| Pali | Now I see how is nokia kernel different from orig 2.6.28 | 12:31 |
| freemangordon | didnt get that | 12:32 |
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| X-Fade | Pali: Did you look at the linux-omap one? | 12:32 |
| Pali | yes, but a lot of (or all) nokia patches was not commited into linux-omap | 12:33 |
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| freemangordon | pali: I still don't understand why you insist on using kernel.org version, we are not doing some upstream development here, are we? | 12:35 |
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| Pali | I forgot one thing: | 12:37 |
| Pali | usb host mode needed to revert some nokia patches | 12:38 |
| Pali | and v46 has upstream 2.6.28 tarball (but not same as from kernel.org) + nokia patches without some which broke usb host mode | 12:38 |
| Pali | see https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power | 12:39 |
| Pali | titan did same as I (upstream tarball + nokia patches) | 12:39 |
| Pali | I only changes tarball to correct from kernel.org (titan maybe created own with same files) | 12:40 |
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| freemangordon | the upstream tarball titan used is one from here http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/kernel_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz | 12:41 |
| Pali | but you cannot use this for usb host mode | 12:43 |
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| Pali | no v46 (by titan) is not using kernel_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz tarball, see: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=tree;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches;h=ae1455f54c2469a9d7e843558ae410834d134513;hb=a16c87405ab720bcdd1a24e0ce161dd25f2a6c93 | 12:44 |
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| jiero | hi, any tips to recover the original battery consumption rate for N900? I had it 4% consumed overnight when I first get it. Now 30% ... | 12:46 |
| nid0 | remove un-needed shit you have running | 12:47 |
| jiero | Xorg always > 6% in top, this isn't normal right? | 12:47 |
| nid0 | or reflash the device | 12:47 |
| jiero | oMo never did reflash before... | 12:47 |
| psycho_oreos | oMo? | 12:47 |
| jiero | o hand, M ears | 12:48 |
| robbiethe1st | Kill hildon-desktop | 12:48 |
| villager | jiero: if you're running top in the xterm, then the xterm making X work a bit is normal... | 12:49 |
| jiero | robbiethe1st: better kill Xorg :D | 12:49 |
| psycho_oreos | and screwup the device :p | 12:49 |
| robbiethe1st | Honestly, I've never had that cause a problem | 12:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | I'm using htop, apart from htop using 6% and AppLock -d using 1% the CPU remains hardly used, Xorg isn't even showing any CPU usage for now. This is with R&D mode enabled, so there must be something going on there. Maybe you're running something on N900's screen or installed some weird program | 12:51 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe even using programs from extras-{testing,devel} | 12:51 |
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| jiero | one more question: any media player stop a bit when switch to Dashboard. is that a bug? | 12:51 |
| psycho_oreos | ok I lied, Applock -d fluctuates between 1-3%. and occasional hildon-status-menu using 1% | 12:52 |
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| psycho_oreos | no that's not a bug. Its probably because your device is lagging | 12:52 |
| jiero | lol | 12:52 |
| freemangordon | pali: I mean the patches here https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=tree;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches;h=ae1455f54c2469a9d7e843558ae410834d134513;hb=a16c87405ab720bcdd1a24e0ce161dd25f2a6c93 are applied against http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/kernel_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz | 12:53 |
| jiero | so it always lags！ | 12:53 |
| jiero | :O I must reflash then... | 12:53 |
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| freemangordon | not against tarball at kernel.org | 12:53 |
| villager | jiero: maybe you have something running all the time that uses 30% battery *and* slows your device down | 12:53 |
| Pali | but here are nokia*.diff patches which can be applied on orig 2.6.28 kernel | 12:54 |
| freemangordon | but the result is not the same | 12:54 |
| psycho_oreos | lagging could be because of many things, including cases of where you have a rather bloated home-screen (i.e. lots of widgets, shortcuts, contacts, etc) and you left your device on (without shutting down/rebooting) for extended period of time | 12:54 |
| freemangordon | that is my point all the time | 12:54 |
| Pali | Ok, I can see on this later | 12:54 |
| freemangordon | origs differ, so is the result | 12:54 |
| Pali | If there are really problem it should be fixed! | 12:54 |
| freemangordon | yes, use orig from maemo repos :P | 12:55 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: I don't think I can fix... | 12:55 |
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| Pali | then I need to drop usb host mode support | 12:55 |
| freemangordon | noo | 12:55 |
| freemangordon | why? | 12:55 |
| Pali | becase PR1.3 kernel break host mode patches | 12:55 |
| freemangordon | kp46 has patches to fix that | 12:56 |
| freemangordon | it is on top of pr13 | 12:56 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, that's being rather vague :p in my case I have to inevitable reboot the device once every maybe 2-3 days due to my bloated setup | 12:56 |
| Pali | i think that kp46 is not on top pr1.3 | 12:56 |
| psycho_oreos | s/inevitable/inevitably/ | 12:56 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: jiero, that's being rather vague :p in my case I have to inevitably reboot the device once every maybe 2-3 days due to my bloated setup | 12:56 |
| freemangordon | it is, 100% sure | 12:56 |
| Pali | Now I'm going offline | 12:57 |
| Pali | I see on this | 12:57 |
| freemangordon | ok | 12:57 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: ok, thats very ok to me :D I often reboot for some stuff. rockbox crash, changing theme etc. | 12:58 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: or run out of power | 12:58 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, though there's many many other factors as to why your N900 is chewing more power than what it originally should. So far you've indicated switching from mediaplayer to homescreen you had mediaplayer paused on its own for a bit. That could also be programs running in background interfering with either of those two or something else | 13:01 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: I cannot figure out what is the factor. and forgot what had I done to it. so better reflash:D thats like the time I screw up and play with Ubuntu... | 13:02 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: thank you. | 13:03 |
| massoud | Hi there, I am scripting phone call / phone release w/ dbus method (dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$NUMBER" uint32:0) | 13:03 |
| massoud | I would like now to monitor after how many rings, the call had been picked up on the other side | 13:03 |
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| massoud | and then release the call w/ the Release dbus method | 13:04 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, lol reflash is probably the easiest option but you also do realise you would lose customisations, especially any customisations that would generally change the rootfs | 13:04 |
| massoud | also monitor if the call had been picked up on the other side | 13:04 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: also upon the reflash, I finally get the chance to re-partition :D /home/user is too small, and ~/MyDocs way too large. getting 8GB spare and 8GB for MyDocs......rest to rootfs. | 13:09 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: I disabled maxCPU and graphic hardware acceleration and N900 seems become much better. | 13:26 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, never heard of maxCPU but I do know that graphics hardware acceleration was noted to be buggy on certain device (worse case scenario, may cause crash) | 13:27 |
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| peterbjornx | hello | 13:27 |
| peterbjornx | is there anyway to set the kernel parameters in NOLO | 13:28 |
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| robbiethe1st | IThe one thing I found that really improved percieved performance is setting the minimum speed to 500mhz(and in my case, max 1ghz) | 13:30 |
| psycho_oreos | doubt it, you'd need flasher tool for starters | 13:30 |
| robbiethe1st | Without having to be at 250mhz for 150ms, first transitions are smoother | 13:30 |
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| psycho_oreos | I personally would never overclock mine, just a personal belief :) | 13:31 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea, but hey - I like the extra speed. It makes it fast enough to completely replace my laptop. I know it'll fail sooner, but I'm willing to take that 'risk' | 13:32 |
| robbiethe1st | I mean, I know I'll have to replace it sooner or later, why not get more power out of it in the meantime? | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | massoud: there's no such thing like "how may rings" nowadays, not even on landline | 13:32 |
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| psycho_oreos | *shrugs* otoh replacement parts for N900 may soon become rare, so if something bad happens and if you still love your N900. You're pretty much sol imo | 13:33 |
| nid0 | can always buy a new one | 13:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | new `lookalike' one :) afaik Nokia stopped production of N900 long ago, and I did mention that N900 may soon become rare. I didn't say they are rare or you can't buy a new one now :) | 13:39 |
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| robbiethe1st | Not really; N770's are still available, and they've been out of production for /how/ long? | 13:40 |
| psycho_oreos | :o genuine ones? | 13:40 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 13:41 |
| robbiethe1st | Mostly used, but... | 13:41 |
| psycho_oreos | it doesn't make much sense, if Nokia stopped producing them, you can't buy it from regular stores anymore. How the hell are you supposed to know if its new or not? | 13:42 |
| * jpinx is trying to buy a used n900 with broken screen for experimenting and parts | 13:42 | |
| robbiethe1st | If the box's sealed... | 13:42 |
| robbiethe1st | http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-OEM-Original-Nokia-770-Internet-Tablet-NIB-/290592170959 | 13:42 |
| psycho_oreos | though stickers aren't too hard to make unless Nokia used holographic type stickers imo :) | 13:43 |
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| robbiethe1st | There's plenty of holographic fake stickers, though | 13:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Seen a decent copy on my Fake nokia spare battery | 13:43 |
| jpinx | easy to buy "sealed" ones here, but that's no guarantee of newness | 13:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, the way I see it: If it works, and looks new, it's new. | 13:44 |
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| robbiethe1st | I don't care if someone has opened it, touched it, and put it back; so long as it looks in good shape, it's great. | 13:44 |
| robbiethe1st | 'course, I generally buy used for that reason... | 13:44 |
| psycho_oreos | plenty of fake holographic stickers are part of the problem. Afaik for my N900 when I first bought mine, it didn't even have a holographic sticker. I can't imagine any of N900's predecessors having a holographic sticker to verify has the box been tampered with or not. | 13:45 |
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| robbiethe1st | Well, in all cases... it's up to trust. Do you trust the seller? | 13:45 |
| jpinx | get a guarantee other than nokia's | 13:46 |
| psycho_oreos | and in either case that would still rest my case that you can't really buy a genuinely brand new N900 :) | 13:46 |
| robbiethe1st | But would I *want* one? All I said was I would replace my own with a new one. I didn't mean new as in NIB, I meant new as in I-don't-have-it. | 13:47 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 13:47 |
| robbiethe1st | Hell, my N770 I got supposedly bricked ;) | 13:47 |
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| * psycho_oreos would think some ex-N900 owners may sell their damaged N900 after overclocking ;) or maybe when their microUSB port fell out | 13:48 | |
| robbiethe1st | I'm a tinkerer... so warrenties typically mean almost nothing - if it lasts a week, I consider it void | 13:48 |
| psycho_oreos | microUSB port fell out/or is about to fall out/get broken off, etc | 13:48 |
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| ruskie | robbiethe1st, hehe similar here... though it depends on the price point | 13:48 |
| robbiethe1st | First case, maby. And who knows, I might just be able to fix it. Second case, that's what I've got a soldering iron for. Or, I could simply just avoid those... | 13:48 |
| ruskie | up to some 300 eur I won't really much care for warranty | 13:49 |
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| robbiethe1st | Yea | 13:49 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: lol, once disable CPUmax, even apt will let audio playback lag! | 13:57 |
| jiero | will not* | 13:57 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, there you go, solving your own issue and retaining your current setup without going through the relash route | 14:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | lcuk, ping | 14:01 |
| lcuk | hi | 14:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | lcuk, just wondering is /var/log/* stuff optified or at least syslog && syslog.old? | 14:02 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, have a read of the optify conf in /etc | 14:02 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, *slaps forehead* indeed lol | 14:02 |
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| psycho_oreos | yeah it doesn't appear to be from mine, in fact I later added that entry in as part of my own personal customisation to optification. Btw did you get my memo? | 14:03 |
| lcuk | i think so | 14:04 |
| psycho_oreos | for some weird reason after relocating /var/log/syslog to /opt/maemo/var/log/syslog, symlinking the syslog, adding that entry into /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf and even editing /etc/syslog.conf to point the new log file location. My rootfs free space doesn't change | 14:05 |
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| psycho_oreos | the one about lbthomson's blog on /var/lib/dpkg being applicable for optification :) that's the credit part sorted out | 14:06 |
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| slonopotamus_ | that's all half-measures :) pivot_root to mmc is a way to go :) | 14:19 |
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| psycho_oreos | I've constantly pondered on that thought | 14:20 |
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| lupine_85 | hey, has anyone here dealt with Nokia's warranty replacement people? | 14:26 |
| lupine_85 | they're trying to give me an N8 as a replacement for my N900 | 14:26 |
| Tronic | Yeah, that sucks. I returned mine (by contacting NokiaCare) and got back a new N900 but that is not possible anymore. | 14:28 |
| Tronic | You can get an E7, though. | 14:28 |
| psycho_oreos | I've read on tmo forums, some people refused to accept N8 and obtained mixed results ranging from E7 to holding out for another device to no deal | 14:28 |
| lupine_85 | I don't want an E7 | 14:28 |
| lupine_85 | I want a new N900 or the purchase price of an N900 | 14:28 |
| Tronic | Depending on your country, you might be able to get your money back but Nokia doesn't want to do that. | 14:28 |
| lupine_85 | yeah, I can imagine | 14:28 |
| lupine_85 | (UK) | 14:28 |
| psycho_oreos | though some have pointed out that you can sell N8/E7 for another N900 | 14:28 |
| Tronic | You can get the E7, sell it for maybe 300 GBP and buy a used N900. | 14:29 |
| Tronic | There is no way you will get another N900 from Nokia anymore :( | 14:29 |
| lupine_85 | I'm relaying through a service centre, just started by rejecting it as a replacement due to a list of missing features that only an N900 can fulfil | 14:29 |
| Tronic | My advice is to not return N900s but instead repairing them yourself, or combining parts from two differently broken devices, if you love the N900. | 14:30 |
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| lupine_85 | *shrug* I don't love it /that/ much | 14:30 |
| lupine_85 | it needs a bigger screen and a less-bastardised debian | 14:30 |
| lupine_85 | and a better keyboard :) | 14:30 |
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| psycho_oreos | its a bit too late for lupine_85's case Tronic :) | 14:30 |
| nid0 | a proper keyboard is my one big wish tbh :< | 14:30 |
| lupine_85 | but I want an E7 or an N8 much less | 14:31 |
| psycho_oreos | symbian is no way near maemo, its like a defunct version of windows ;) | 14:31 |
| lupine_85 | I was going to turn the N900 into a little carputer when the time came to get a new phone | 14:31 |
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| psycho_oreos | near similar to maemo* | 14:31 |
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| lupine_85 | yep, they've just offered an E7 instead | 14:33 |
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| nid0 | take it | 14:33 |
| psycho_oreos | lupine_85, and have you tried turning them down stating that it can't do this and that? :) | 14:33 |
| lupine_85 | yep | 14:34 |
| lupine_85 | they're now talking to their manager | 14:34 |
| lupine_85 | I pointed out that with £500, I could buy a new N900 from amazon | 14:34 |
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| nid0 | why dyou need £500? you can get new n900's for <£300 | 14:34 |
| lupine_85 | the warranty says replacement | 14:34 |
| lupine_85 | http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002OB49SW/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new | 14:34 |
| jaska | they dont have any equivalent models so | 14:35 |
| lupine_85 | those are replacements, if nokia can't offer me a suitably refurbished N900 | 14:35 |
| lupine_85 | they wrote the warranty, not me. I'm just holding them to it | 14:35 |
| nid0 | the warranty says they can give you an alternative if they cant reasonably supply a device the same | 14:35 |
| jaska | itd take a n950 sans aegis tho :) | 14:35 |
| lupine_85 | not the one I've read | 14:35 |
| Tronic | lupine_85: N900 is as close to Debian you will ever get. N9 is a really nice device but further away from desktop Linux. | 14:35 |
| lupine_85 | nid0, which one are you reading ? | 14:35 |
| * lupine_85 is under http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/repair/european-limited-warranty as far as he can tell | 14:35 | |
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| lupine_85 | and all that says is "repairing or, should Nokia in its discretion deem it necessary, replacing the Product in accordance with this Limited Warranty" | 14:36 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't think you can get N950 as a replacement N900. If that were the case I'm sure a fair few N900 owners would be somewhat quite happy to break their N900 just to get N950 | 14:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | hmm I misread :/ | 14:37 |
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| lupine_85 | an N950 would be a suitable replacement | 14:37 |
| lupine_85 | but they're not releasing the N9 in the UK, so I wouldn't expect an N950 either | 14:37 |
| psycho_oreos | but a literal impossible fulfilment :) | 14:37 |
| lupine_85 | I'm not asking anything impossible of them | 14:38 |
| Gh0sty | whats wrong with yours? | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | n950 is not being sold ever | 14:38 |
| psycho_oreos | no I meant to get N950 :) they weren't for sale and only certain sets of people obtained their N950 | 14:38 |
| lupine_85 | Gh0sty, it was doing the "communications error" thing | 14:39 |
| lupine_85 | where it disables the 3G & GPRS radios, etc | 14:40 |
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| Gh0sty | hmm read about that, not really seen it myself | 14:41 |
| Gh0sty | it's really broken then? :/ | 14:42 |
| jiero | If N950 enter market it may ship similar units as of N900... | 14:42 |
| nid0 | it wont. | 14:42 |
| Gh0sty | cause there was talks that it was rather provider bound or something? | 14:42 |
| psycho_oreos | but then it never did, the N950 | 14:42 |
| lupine_85 | really really broken | 14:42 |
| jiero | How many N900 was sold? 50,000? | 14:42 |
| Gh0sty | partially regret ever buying it :( | 14:42 |
| psycho_oreos | lupine_85, there were some mods some people did on t.m.o, one bloke bend his pins and made it work I think | 14:43 |
| Gh0sty | its a nice device but not supported anymore, no sufficient warranty anymore etc | 14:43 |
| Gh0sty | and I bought it in the UK cause here in belgium it was nearly impossible to buy :/ | 14:43 |
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| lupine_85 | psycho_oreos, mm, but I paid £500 for this device and it came with a 2 year warranty | 14:44 |
| Gh0sty | should start an N900 repair shop :P | 14:44 |
| psycho_oreos | Gh0sty, heh welcome to maemo, one of the Nokia's many projects that they have sunk their money in but only for a brief period amount of time before they just got impatient and decided to look for a new toy :) | 14:44 |
| lupine_85 | "you can bend some pins (invalidating the warranty) to get it working again" is not a sensible piece of advice | 14:44 |
| nid0 | im happy I bought mine through cpw, they still sell them so obviously have replacement stock | 14:45 |
| jiero | Gh0sty: tons of N900 refurbish in China to purchase under ￥900 | 14:45 |
| Gh0sty | I know I know ... read a lot of stuff on maemo forums as to why nokia completly fucked up their whole business :( | 14:45 |
| marainein | i bought mine from amazon when they were $350....i see now they're selling them for $500 | 14:45 |
| psycho_oreos | lupine_85, true but the thing is that you're stuck without your N900 and you would still need to source another N900 if Nokia still refuses to fix your N900 or even give you a replacement N900 | 14:45 |
| Gh0sty | bought mine for around 500 euro | 14:46 |
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| psycho_oreos | My old N900 is under contract, my newly acquired N900 (sadly its second hand) I paid around AUD$300 | 14:47 |
| jiero | Gh0sty: its dear :S. now you can buy another one for 100 euro from China. | 14:47 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: its much cheaper now | 14:48 |
| psycho_oreos | though there's a chance you may get fake ones | 14:48 |
| Gh0sty | well new employer is giving me a phone | 14:48 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: I bought for $220 2 month ago... | 14:48 |
| Gh0sty | so probably going to only use it as internet tablet | 14:48 |
| Gh0sty | back to the start :) | 14:48 |
| Gh0sty | probably put a 3G only card in it, so no calling ... | 14:48 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: then 2 weeks later, the normal price on ebay dropped to $180 | 14:48 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, heh I bought my second N900 when I was in HK actually. I'm quite skeptical of doing online purchases when dealing with a fairly large wad of cash (imo) so I decided to demo the device prior to buying it. | 14:49 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: I bought via gumtree :D | 14:49 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: $300 is not a lot... but in HongKong you may spend $360 for a brand new one... | 14:50 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, hopefully you have a nice hw revision :) I'm only basing my belief that hw revision 2101 has microUSB problems. Both my N900 have hw revision 2204 | 14:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, had me old man and his mate to do the bargaining but yeah I had to pay a little more than $300, I can't quite remember the exact amount however | 14:51 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: how do you know my hw revision ？ | 14:51 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, I don't :) I just hope | 14:52 |
| psycho_oreos | as in I hope you didn't get hw revision 2101 | 14:52 |
| Gh0sty | psycho_oreos: where can you see that number? | 14:52 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: ok, this is first time I know there is something called "hw revision" :D | 14:52 |
| psycho_oreos | Gh0sty, various ways, R&D mode, cat /proc/cpuinfo, etc | 14:52 |
| lupine_85 | psycho_oreos, no, they have my N900 - probably in finland somewhere - and have sent back an E8 | 14:53 |
| lupine_85 | erm, N89 | 14:53 |
| lupine_85 | N8* | 14:53 |
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| psycho_oreos | lupine_85, ewww, but again you're pretty much stuck without your N900 though | 14:53 |
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| lupine_85 | if they had sent back £500 in cash, I could get a brand new N900 shipped to me from the US or HK in less time than it took them to send me an N8 | 14:53 |
| lupine_85 | so this is what I'm insisting upon with them | 14:53 |
| Gh0sty | 2101 :/ | 14:54 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: thanks, its 2204 | 14:54 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, its not new though :) there was a huge thread, now various other small threads are starting to appear of people complaining microUSB problems | 14:54 |
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| lupine_85 | as far as I can tell, an N8 or an E7 is a breach of contract, so if they insist upon that, I'll file on the small claims court | 14:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | Gh0sty, I'm not saying that I know for certain, I'm just assuming, because when the unfortunate owners of broken microUSB ports asked. I asked them which hw revision they had, I think all of them reported 2101 | 14:55 |
| lupine_85 | if they ignore that, I win. If they defend it, I will or they will win - probably me, given the wording of the contract | 14:55 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: my microusb plug bent already~ | 14:55 |
| Gh0sty | is the n8 new? | 14:55 |
| Gh0sty | or is it also a refurb? | 14:55 |
| psycho_oreos | lupine_85, though you that means you need to fork out some money to take them the court as well imo | 14:55 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: do you know 仙剑奇侠传 ? | 14:56 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, you mean the port? | 14:56 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, nope :/ | 14:56 |
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| psycho_oreos | my Chinese read/write comprehension is poorer than speaking/listening lol.. lemme google translate that | 14:56 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: yeah, the port - I dragged my n900 off table. ok. nvm the Chinese word. | 14:57 |
| lupine_85 | psycho_oreos, like £20 or so | 14:57 |
| lupine_85 | hee, I've been fobbed off to the care line now | 14:57 |
| lupine_85 | this is going to be a fun explanation | 14:58 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, ouch, they're not completely foolproof :) I guess you're somewhat lucky that the port got bent instead of broken off :) As for the Chinese word I google translated it just because I'm curious. The translation comes up as paladin. Not too sure what that could mean | 14:59 |
| psycho_oreos | lupine_85, ahh that's not too bad, I thought it'd be more than that, i.e. legal fees, lawyer fees, etc | 15:00 |
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| Gh0sty | mine has its fixed stand built with lego! :P | 15:00 |
| Gh0sty | and the wires run behind the desk :) | 15:00 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: its Name of a popular Chinese RPG Game, only in Chinese, so you must not played it before. | 15:00 |
| Gh0sty | build my cellphone stands always with lego | 15:01 |
| Gh0sty | if you buy new phone ... it's rebuilding time :P | 15:01 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, heh I hardly play games online, let alone games in different language. | 15:01 |
| psycho_oreos | Gh0sty, there was a bloke selling metal stands for N900, don't know if he still is selling them, but that might be an alternative. I hardly use my stand, so mine hasn't broken off/gone bad yet :) | 15:02 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, online games imo these days are becoming way too addictive that one can literally wrap their lives around it. You don't need to look further than games like WoW for instance ;) | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: Bullshit. | 15:03 |
| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, what? huh? | 15:03 |
| psycho_oreos | which part? | 15:03 |
| * SpeedEvil lost large slices of the late 80s-90s to muds. | 15:03 | |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - I should wakeup more before commenting, there was meant to be a comma in there. | 15:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | 90s actually, not 80s, on reflection | 15:04 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: um... I never played MMO much, less than 20hours in total... | 15:04 |
| psycho_oreos | oh online games. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples one can use :) I've lost a large slice during 2003-2007 period to offline && arcade gaming, never again will I go down that path | 15:05 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: but Im a 23 years gamer... looking for new experience gaming. | 15:05 |
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| psycho_oreos | jiero, *nods* not trying to sway you off games or anything, just that I've gone too far with being heavily addicted to games. | 15:06 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: hmm. thats good:D | 15:06 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, rather good for burning money away like that :| | 15:07 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: I play *free game and now Free game.:D | 15:08 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, surely your time, internet, maintaining your computer/s, electricity isn't free however :) | 15:08 |
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| psycho_oreos | I still do play games but I also don't spend that much time now on them. I only play offline games to avoid becoming too overly addicted | 15:09 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: for sure, time is treasure. devote time to create game was fun. | 15:09 |
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| jiero | psycho_oreos: you think so?offline game is less addictive ? | 15:10 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, game is only a temporary device for entertainment... too much of it becomes an addiction just like smoking/drinking, etc :) | 15:10 |
| jiero | psycho_oreos: or you can watch too many movies or read too many books:D | 15:11 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, no offline games isn't less addictive than online games but you're somewhat bound to hit the end of the game at one point or another. Online gaming never ends until you say stop basically :) | 15:11 |
| psycho_oreos | jiero, indeed :) | 15:11 |
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| lupine_85 | OK, my issue is with their escalations department now | 15:16 |
| lupine_85 | (Nokia's, not the care point's) | 15:16 |
| lupine_85 | apparently I can expect a response in 3-5 business days | 15:16 |
| psycho_oreos | I probably wouldn't hold my breath ;) | 15:16 |
| * psycho_oreos recalls of that case of Ovi pissing developers off last year | 15:17 | |
| lupine_85 | *shrug* | 15:17 |
| lupine_85 | the contract (warranty) is simple and clear | 15:17 |
| psycho_oreos | s/case of/case with/ | 15:17 |
| lupine_85 | the small claims court process is simple and clear too | 15:17 |
| lupine_85 | I bought the N900 on the basis of a number of claims, and a significant one was the operating system | 15:17 |
| lupine_85 | those considerations must be the deciding factor in determining whether any other phone can be considered a replacement | 15:18 |
| javispedro | lupine_85++ | 15:19 |
| javispedro | lupine_85: this was also discussed previously though | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | lupine_85: They have no alternate phone. | 15:19 |
| javispedro | my opinion is that this is done as a goodwill gesture and if you complain they will eventually give you a n900 | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | (at the moment) | 15:19 |
| marainein | see if they'll give you an n950 | 15:19 |
| javispedro | although you will have to wait | 15:19 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: they do | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The n950 is not an approved retail device for sale. | 15:19 |
| javispedro | they are still n900s around | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | They are not required to hand out prototypes. | 15:20 |
| javispedro | just not "many" of them. | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 15:20 |
| lupine_85 | SpeedEvil, and as a result I will accept the cash necessary for me to source a new N900 for myself | 15:20 |
| javispedro | lupine_85: Nokia will NOT give cash to you | 15:20 |
| lupine_85 | then the bailiffs will take it from them | 15:20 |
| javispedro | please read the European legislation | 15:20 |
| lupine_85 | assuming I win the small claims case | 15:20 |
| javispedro | are you in the UK? | 15:20 |
| lupine_85 | aye | 15:20 |
| lupine_85 | javispedro, read the contract: http://europe.nokia.com/support/repair-and-recycle/european-limited-warranty | 15:21 |
| marainein | go and loot one from a phone store :P | 15:21 |
| lupine_85 | it seems pretty clear to me | 15:21 |
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| lupine_85 | and even if I lose in small claims, it costs maybe £25 quid or so and I will still get whatever the courts decide is a replacement | 15:22 |
| lupine_85 | (so the originally-offered N8 or E7) | 15:22 |
| javispedro | lupine_85: where does it say anywhere anything about cash | 15:23 |
| jiero | Any business use N900 ? | 15:23 |
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| javispedro | lupine_85: as I said, _you are going to get the N900_ if you tell them. They will just make you wait whatever they feel. | 15:23 |
| javispedro | *feel up to. | 15:23 |
| lupine_85 | javispedro, it doesn't, it says replacement | 15:23 |
| lupine_85 | if they don't provide a replacement, they are in breach of contract | 15:23 |
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| lupine_85 | further down, it notes that nokia's liabilities are limited to the purchase price of a new phone | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Replacement with identical is not stated. | 15:24 |
| lupine_85 | indeed, it is simply "replacement" | 15:24 |
| lupine_85 | this is where the salient features I bought the phone for come to the front | 15:24 |
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| lupine_85 | I wouldn't have bought it if it had been running symbian, so a symbian phone is not a replacement | 15:25 |
| lupine_85 | or so I would argue in the small claims court | 15:25 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: the point is taht you could argue the N8 does not do all of the features that the N900 was commercialized for | 15:25 |
| lupine_85 | I can point to the smaller screen and lack of keyboard | 15:25 |
| lupine_85 | in addition | 15:25 |
| javispedro | this is all explained in the european directive up to what constitues an "advertised feature" | 15:25 |
| lupine_85 | those three features are the essential three that, I feel, must be fulfiled in order for any presumed replacement to be considered a replacement | 15:25 |
| lupine_85 | yep | 15:26 |
| lupine_85 | the small claims courts will evaluate the claimed replacement and either conclude that it is or that it isn't | 15:26 |
| * Jaffa wonders what's going on with the Council. No pre-announcement of the date/time of the meeting lma found here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1067810#post1067810 (it was mentioned it was happening). Very interesting log to read (looks at X-Fade ;-)) | 15:26 | |
| lupine_85 | I strongly suspect they'd rule in my favour, or I wouldn't be considering it | 15:26 |
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| * X-Fade hides | 15:26 | |
| javispedro | lupine_85: which is why I say Nokia Care _Will_ give you a N900 if you ask | 15:27 |
| lupine_85 | yes, that's where we're at right now | 15:27 |
| lupine_85 | I'm waiting to see if they will | 15:27 |
| Jaffa | But they can't guarantee when | 15:27 |
| javispedro | Jaffa++ | 15:27 |
| Jaffa | (or couldn't to me) | 15:27 |
| lupine_85 | Jaffa, the contract specifies commercially reasonable | 15:27 |
| lupine_85 | if they don't meet that, they are similarly in breach of contract | 15:28 |
| javispedro | that's not "days" | 15:28 |
| javispedro | that might be "months" | 15:28 |
| lupine_85 | indeed | 15:28 |
| lupine_85 | nopwe | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | lupine_85: And the magistrate would say for an EOL phone they it can't be commercially reasonable for them to build a new batch for you | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | So "months" is realistic. | 15:28 |
| lupine_85 | Jaffa, I can get a new N900 shipped to me in under a week | 15:28 |
| lupine_85 | EOL or not | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | I went for an E7 and sold it "buy it now" within 3 hours on eBay for around 250 quidish (bit more IIRC) | 15:28 |
| lupine_85 | months is not comercially reasonable | 15:28 |
| javispedro | Nokia will not pay for that | 15:28 |
| javispedro | and months is fully reasonable even in a court | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | N8s (even boxed as new - E7 wasn't :-() seem to have lower resale values | 15:29 |
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| lupine_85 | it doesn't matter if they will or not, since their liability for breach of contract is equivalent to the price of a new phone | 15:29 |
| javispedro | either way, IANAL. | 15:29 |
| lupine_85 | no, me neither | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | Since I didn't, technically, buy mine - I didn't make too much fuss | 15:29 |
| thomastp | Hi. If you have your own repository, and you gpg-sign it, what mechanism is there so that end users can click on my .install file and also get the gpg key ? | 15:29 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: :) | 15:30 |
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| marainein | how about swapping someone the n8 for an n900? are there sites online that let you swap stuff of similar value? | 15:30 |
| lupine_85 | a new N8 is worth much less than a new N900 :) | 15:31 |
| marainein | wouldn't yours count as used? amazon lists both used n900s and used n8s for around $350 | 15:33 |
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| lupine_85 | marainein, I'd be happy to accept a used / refurbed N900 from Nokia | 15:33 |
| lupine_85 | but not from a random shop elsewhere | 15:33 |
| kerio | i want a boxed n900 :( | 15:34 |
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| kerio | and an openpandora | 15:34 |
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| marainein | is the day ever going to come when we can get our own customised phones assembled, the way we do with PCs? | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Not soon. | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | I should write up this... | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | The fundamental problem is that modularity has costs. | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Say - for example - you want to modularise the modem. | 15:35 |
| derf | See also: laptops. | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | You need additional components on the PCB to cope with the performance of the connector, you need a couple of connectors, lots of mechaical fixings, a more complex case, and you need to pick a random size. | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | The size you pick will always have space left over. | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Mobile high-pin-count connectors are unreliable and fragile. | 15:37 |
| marainein | that's too bad | 15:38 |
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| Macer | well | 15:39 |
| lupine_85 | http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31999L0044:EN:HTML is definitely the appropriate legislation | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | So, in brief, yes, you can, if you want your phone to be twice as large, and cost twice as much | 15:39 |
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| lupine_85 | the wording is "brought into conformity", so the replacement must "comply with the description given by the seller and possess the qualities of the goods which the seller has held out to the consumer as a sample or model" | 15:40 |
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| lupine_85 | the advertising definitely includes the keyboard and screen, literally everywhere | 15:42 |
| * lupine_85 hunts for the N900 adverts that big up maemo | 15:42 | |
| lupine_85 | http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/all-phones/nokia-n900#/main/landing <-- ahahahaha. "get to know maemo" | 15:42 |
| lupine_85 | job's a good'un | 15:42 |
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| marainein | SpeedEvil, most the phones i've heard of are using ARM cpus. if we can't get whatever hardware we like, can we at least put maemo on whatever phone we want? | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | A) locked down devices in various ways. | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | B) Legality | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | C) lack of code for drivers. | 15:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Maemo has binary nokia bits, that you aren't licenced to run on other platforms | 15:47 |
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| lupine_85 | the amusing part is, in terms of conformity, most android devices are closer to the N900 than symbian devices | 16:13 |
| lupine_85 | (of course, I don't want an android) | 16:13 |
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| thomastp | is there some way to set up an sbox today with an older maemo5 than update 7 ? | 16:26 |
| thomastp | this looks promising: http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle-update2/ but I don't know what's behind that ? | 16:26 |
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| Pali | MohammadAG: ping | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | Pali, pong | 17:18 |
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| Pali | can you give me permitions for changing status of merge request for my osso-calculator on gitorious cssu? | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | oh, you can't? | 17:19 |
| Pali | I cannot close merged requests | 17:19 |
| MohammadAG | I thought you could do that but decided not to merge those requests | 17:19 |
| Pali | this was merged: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/osso-calculator/merge_requests/4 | 17:19 |
| Pali | but I cannot close it | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | sec, I'll change permissions | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | is osso-calculator mature enough now? | 17:20 |
| Pali | I think yes | 17:20 |
| Pali | I wrote you mail | 17:21 |
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| neal | Who manages planet.maemo.org? I just a mail on Sunday to planet@maemo.org and I haven't heard anything back yet. | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | Pali, mail gets lost sometimes due to meego- mailing lists | 17:23 |
| MohammadAG | Pali, permissions updated | 17:23 |
| Pali | ok, thanks. I closed merge req. 4 | 17:24 |
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| Pali | MohammadAG, what about include osso-wlan patch from packet injection into CSSU? | 17:26 |
| MohammadAG | Pali, how stable is it when not using the custom drivers | 17:28 |
| Pali | I did not see problems. but it needs to be tested by more people | 17:28 |
| Pali | I extracted patch here: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/osso-wlan_scan-retry.patch | 17:29 |
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| * lupine_85 gets confirmation from other IANALs that a replacement should be maemo-tastic | 17:37 | |
| lupine_85 | or rather, that I can insist a replacement be maemo-tastic | 17:38 |
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| * GeneralAntilles completely missed the fact there was a Council/Nokia meeting. | 18:11 | |
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| chem|st | GeneralAntilles: and what is the juice now? | 18:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Nothing particularly exciting: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2011-08-09.log.html | 18:20 |
| chem|st | no n9 in us/uk/de means no mainstream for n9 who would be interessted in developing software? | 18:20 |
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| Venemo_N950 | heh | 18:21 |
| Venemo_N950 | why are they releasing the N9 at all then? | 18:22 |
| javispedro | übergeeks | 18:22 |
| Venemo_N950 | if noone in any of the important markets will be able to buy it | 18:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | what's the point then | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | shush, I might want to buy one in my little 3rd world EU member country | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | which is totally not important | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | (and the point is to say "we released a meego phone, and it didn't sell, so you see the OS sucks and we made the right decision for going with Windows Phone", if you're feeling cynical enough) | 18:25 |
| Venemo_N950 | yeah, maybe me too | 18:25 |
| villager | wasn't there a theory about Nokia's contract with Intel forcing them to release a meego phone... even though they don't want it to be a success | 18:25 |
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| * lupine_85 makes a sad face at the N9 | 18:26 | |
| lupine_85 | it's missing a keyboard, isn't it? | 18:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | wut? but how could it be a success if they don't release it in half EU | 18:26 |
| villager | that's what I said... they don't want it to be a success, they're just forced to make it anyway | 18:26 |
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| villager | at least that's what it looks like... | 18:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | well | 18:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | since it is NOT a meego phone | 18:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | and they are NOT releasing it | 18:27 |
| villager | Elop wants his windows phones to be a success, so he can't afford letting N9 be a success, but he's not allowed to cancel it | 18:27 |
| villager | or something | 18:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | they won't be able to say "we released a meego phone" | 18:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | hehh, lol | 18:27 |
| javispedro | optimistically, he wants to test the waters before making the full release | 18:28 |
| villager | sure they can... it gets released in Sweden, right? | 18:28 |
| javispedro | and Lithuania | 18:28 |
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| Venemo_N950 | and Hungary too | 18:29 |
| chem|st | GeneralAntilles: so in the basics... it was about what happens 01.01.2013 after nokia switched off the lights?! | 18:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | if anyone wants, they can send me the money and I'll buy for them | 18:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | chem|st, I doubt anyone will be around to care? | 18:29 |
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| javispedro | making predictions for 2013 already? | 18:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | villager, I doubt it. | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially given how vocal Intel employees seem to be about how not-MeeGo Harmattan is. | 18:30 |
| villager | GeneralAntilles: you doubt what? the theory about Nokia's contract with Intel? | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 18:31 |
| villager | well, it's just a theory I've heard, I guess | 18:31 |
| chem|st | javispedro: no it is about the servercontracts running out in 12/2012 | 18:31 |
| chem|st | javispedro: and nokia wont renew | 18:31 |
| chem|st | villager: they wouldn't do the 950devel release if so... | 18:31 |
| Venemo_N950 | hehe | 18:32 |
| chem|st | Venemo_N950: I would prefer a n950 | 18:32 |
| Venemo_N950 | I would be eager to hear the REAL story behind the N950 | 18:32 |
| villager | chem|st: perhaps... but they haven't really tried to make the N9 a sales success either... | 18:32 |
| javispedro | chem|st: ah :( | 18:33 |
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| auenf | isnt the real story behind N950 was it was a little flimsy? | 18:33 |
| chem|st | oh uk n9 will only be sold to carriers | 18:33 |
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| chem|st | ? | 18:33 |
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| Venemo_N950 | well | 18:33 |
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| Venemo_N950 | the whole "won't release" is about Nokia's own store | 18:34 |
| Venemo_N950 | noone knows about carriers or resellers | 18:34 |
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| auenf | there is no nokia store where i am (last i checked) | 18:34 |
| Venemo_N950 | yeah | 18:34 |
| villager | chem|st: rumors about uk are more like "not at all" | 18:34 |
| Venemo_N950 | auenf, flimsy? | 18:34 |
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| chem|st | villager: just read a "mail from elop" header at TMO | 18:35 |
| chem|st | auenf: what Venemo_N950 said! | 18:35 |
| villager | chem|st: link? | 18:35 |
| chem|st | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75671 | 18:36 |
| auenf | wasnt n950 not released cause it wasnt going to be durable enough? | 18:36 |
| chem|st | auenf: someone said not FCC compliant | 18:36 |
| chem|st | but I doubt it | 18:36 |
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| Venemo_N950 | point is, I wish there'd be someone to tell the story | 18:37 |
| auenf | "We’ve also learned that Nokia’s first MeeGo device, originally scheduled to be announced late last year, has been sent back to the drawing board by operators. | 18:37 |
| auenf | The problem, says our source, is in relation to the “flimsy” hardware keyboard mechanism, which fell short of operator standards." | 18:37 |
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| Venemo_N950 | auenf, who is 'our source'? | 18:38 |
| auenf | http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokia%E2%80%99s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/ | 18:38 |
| auenf | nfi | 18:38 |
| Venemo_N950 | also, if it was sent back last year, how come that they still manufactured a few hundred of it? | 18:39 |
| auenf | was rejected AFTER an inital test run? | 18:39 |
| auenf | s/test run/prodution test run/ | 18:39 |
| infobot | auenf meant: was rejected AFTER an inital prodution test run? | 18:39 |
| Venemo_N950 | mhm | 18:40 |
| auenf | altho, i may be guessing things based on other peoples guesses :P | 18:40 |
| Venemo_N950 | so they decided to put the already manufactured ones into good use? | 18:40 |
| Venemo_N950 | and gave them to us? | 18:40 |
| auenf | what else were they going to do with them if they were rejected late in the process? | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | That is just bull :) | 18:41 |
| chem|st | redo the housing w/o kbd as the board was manufactured in the thousands already?! | 18:41 |
| X-Fade | Pretty funny how people make up stories :) | 18:41 |
| chem|st | yeah the hardware is different so they redesigned | 18:41 |
| Venemo_N950 | so they renamed the device, made some new boxes, printed a few pages of 'welcome, developer', and threw in some usb cables? and that's it | 18:41 |
| javispedro | sounds like a good plan | 18:42 |
| Venemo_N950 | the inner hardware is about the same | 18:42 |
| chem|st | sounds like never happened | 18:42 |
| auenf | but who knows if its real, or just multiple guesses put together ;) | 18:42 |
| chem|st | Venemo_N950: no it isn't | 18:42 |
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| chem|st | or if "about" means same cpu and cam module... | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hi, X-Fade. :) | 18:43 |
| chem|st | and some basics... | 18:43 |
| X-Fade | It is cheaper to throw phones away then to distrbute them to hackers. | 18:43 |
| chem|st | the n9 has nfc n950 has not | 18:43 |
| X-Fade | Really ;) | 18:43 |
| X-Fade | Especially when they need to be CE/FCC tested etc. | 18:43 |
| Venemo_N950 | chem|st, afaik the OMAP and CPU are the same | 18:44 |
| chem|st | CE is must have even on devel devices afaik, no idea about fcc | 18:44 |
| auenf | i wouldnt be surprised if they were rejected by the operators after fcc/ce testing | 18:44 |
| X-Fade | operators don't really look at the hardware. | 18:45 |
| X-Fade | They look at software customization opportunities. | 18:45 |
| X-Fade | Crapify them. | 18:45 |
| chem|st | X-Fade: what about channel access stuff of DocScrutinizer51 and me (just to remind...) | 18:46 |
| chem|st | X-Fade: and operator-locks! if verizon or vodafone | 18:47 |
| X-Fade | chem|st: Is there a real need? | 18:47 |
| chem|st | X-Fade: as you were barely around, doc thought it would be appropriate to have him upgraded, for me it isn't realy needed, I poke anyone on the list till I get what I want if not on the list ;) | 18:48 |
| X-Fade | I mean, are we overrun with bots or things we can't handle? | 18:49 |
| X-Fade | It is very quiet here and only a few people are really active. | 18:49 |
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| chem|st | X-Fade: the last 2 weeks yes | 18:53 |
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| chem|st | X-Fade: actualy your reason for denial is a very good reason to have it | 18:53 |
| X-Fade | I'm just saying that this is more to satisfy your own quest for glory than to fix a real issue? :) | 18:54 |
| chem|st | no leave me out, I am asking for docs upgrade | 18:55 |
| X-Fade | I have no problem with adding people to the access list, as long as it fixes an issue. | 18:55 |
| chem|st | hehe, that is what I said... I don't need access as I can poke s/o anytime... | 18:56 |
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| X-Fade | Then what are we talking about? | 18:56 |
| X-Fade | Now I'm lost? | 18:56 |
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| chem|st | about DocScrutinizer (jOERG_rw) | 19:00 |
| chem|st | it was just a reminder nothing to discuss realy, he wanted me to have access and himself upgraded month ago | 19:01 |
| X-Fade | what do you mean by upgraded? | 19:02 |
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| chem|st | think he wanted to have fA?! | 19:02 |
| peterbjornx | are there still n950's being "given away | 19:04 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: say something... | 19:04 |
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| mgedmin | peterbjornx, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4067 | 19:05 |
| * chem|st feels like discussing something very unimportant as he already did at work all day, but this time with intelligent opponent^^ | 19:05 | |
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| peterbjornx | ok | 19:07 |
| villager | peterbjornx: and as that thread shows, it's too late... | 19:07 |
| villager | peterbjornx: they gave away the last ones 2 days ago or something | 19:08 |
| chem|st | me is out | 19:09 |
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| peterbjornx | i read that | 19:31 |
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| peterbjornx | well, i hope i can buy one 2nd hand one day | 19:32 |
| peterbjornx | ( i know theres only 250 of them) | 19:32 |
| hiemanshu | plus 50 from the extended program | 19:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | peterbjornx, there are way more | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's just the community program. | 19:39 |
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| Venemo | there were programs for non-community devs too in developer.nokia.com | 19:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Plus the commercial partners | 19:45 |
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| villager | and I think the 250+50 community devices are only loan devices that can't be resold? | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | yes | 19:46 |
| Venemo | villager, you think right, yet | 19:48 |
| Venemo | or yes | 19:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: I'm out in the wild, with a crappy BTS | 19:57 |
| luke-jr | Venemo: doh, I guess I missed that | 19:58 |
| Venemo | luke-jr, what? | 19:58 |
| luke-jr | but N950 didn't really look like that much different from N900 | 19:58 |
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| luke-jr | Venemo: I submitted a community application, just in case they accepted non-Maemo stuff | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: so most of the time all you see is my bouncer | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm not even sure if I'm still online | 19:59 |
| luke-jr | didn't realize there was a separate thing for that | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 19:59 |
| infobot | ~pong | 19:59 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, right now, you are! | 19:59 |
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| ShadowJK | luke-jr, N950 has 4 times the ram of N900, that's the biggest reason you'd want it | 20:01 |
| luke-jr | it does? :o | 20:01 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 20:01 |
| luke-jr | oh well, too late; nobody ever replied to my question on whether non-Maemo stuff qualified at all :| | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so hi there from chaos communication camp | 20:01 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: hey :p | 20:02 |
| SpeedEvil | villager: I don't actually recall anything in the agreement saying you can't sell it - just that if you lose it you are due to pay 500e | 20:03 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, officially only "Apps" qualify. In practice they've given N950s to other non-App things to known/notorious/etc people :P | 20:03 |
| SpeedEvil | (I would not of course recommend anyone sell theirs! :) | 20:03 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: oh well, they don't care for Gentoo it seems XD | 20:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | like me :-P | 20:03 |
| SpeedEvil | hey DocScrutinizer. Sounds like fun. | 20:04 |
| luke-jr | kinda makes sense, since Gentoo probably has no viability on the N9 | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | actually my comfort requirements make me think it'd be more fun to stay at home rather tahn deal with wet sleeping bag and congestion on GPRS + WLAN here | 20:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it's just too crowed too to be real fun, we almost found no free ground to place tents | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | as my driver managed to be 8h late, minimum | 20:09 |
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| Itschue | hello | 20:18 |
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| nox- | DocScrutinizer51, you watching the opensource hw talk? | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | when? where? | 20:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Opensource hardware fails in many ways. | 20:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | Primarily that a compile takes often 6 weeks, and $2k for a phone-class object. | 20:39 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer51, http://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/Fahrplan/events/4412.en.html | 20:41 |
| nox- | https://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/wiki/Streams | 20:41 |
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| frals | elop is pretty good with words | 21:27 |
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| Venemo | frals, really? what did he say this time? | 21:30 |
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| Venemo | frals, has he convinced you to learn WP7 coding? :P | 21:30 |
| frals | https://twitter.com/#!/mwkn/status/101719547500965888 | 21:30 |
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| ShadowJK | Why the flying fsck would I want to buy anythign from doublecrossing thieving carriers | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scum. | 21:32 |
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| frals | he is keen to point out operators says what they want | 21:36 |
| frals | but not saying anything about the other case | 21:36 |
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| flailingmonkey | manufacturers can always influence operators in whether their products are offered | 21:43 |
| flailingmonkey | claiming that it is up to the operator is implying that they have no influence in the matter | 21:43 |
| flailingmonkey | he doesn't want to reveal whether or not Nokia is trying to limit release of N9 in Microsoft friendly markets | 21:44 |
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| Jartza | at least they won't sell MeeGo in north america | 21:47 |
| Jartza | he's saying something on one day and other on next day :) | 21:47 |
| KMFDM | hes just trying to make sure n9 won't threaten he windows phone release from what i can tell | 21:48 |
| flailingmonkey | KMFDM: yes, that much is clear | 21:50 |
| flailingmonkey | KMFDM: only explanation for Elop's quashing of hype and interest in N9, when right after it was revealed he says it will be only MeeGo phone from Nokia | 21:51 |
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| GAN900 | He wants Microsoft to be it. | 22:20 |
| GAN900 | He's a plant. | 22:20 |
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