IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-08-11

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GAN900People need to learn to clear the traffic lanes after a fender bender.01:13
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javispedrono, they should learn to keep crashing between themselves01:16
javispedroso that there's less traffic at the next toll booth.01:17
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SpeedEvilBRB - looting.01:30
GAN900SpeedEvil, has it spread so far north?01:32
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SpeedEvilNot really.01:40
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nid0all nice and quiet here, same as every night \o/01:40
SpeedEviljavispedro: hmm. As an experiment - I suppose that actually my device is now in a state where if everything was to horribly object to it not working properly, I'd know.01:41
SpeedEvilPhone, SMS seems to work.01:41
javispedrogood observation, but I wouldn't put my finger on that.01:42
SpeedEvilCan't even get GPS to work for phototags01:44
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javispedroI seriously hope that's not pr0n..01:59
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yigalpeace brothers and sisters05:09
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Termanagood morning10:06
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robbiethe1stOk, guys, I've got a question.10:10
robbiethe1stso, it says I need to send my ID/username and... "AID-XXXX"... what's the last number and where do I find it?10:10
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robbiethe1stHey, that worked. I found it!10:11
robbiethe1stSeems that just asking solves problems, even if noone answers <_<10:11
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Triscar0i have forgot my facebook pass, and cant restore it. but its stored on the web browser on my n900, is there any way i can "crack" it?10:25
jogaisn't there a "forgot password" link in facebook10:25
Triscar0yeah but cant get it to work. old mail10:26
radiofreetranslation: someone I know used my n900 to access facebook and they saved there password there, is there any way i can "crack" it? :P10:26
jogaso old it can't remember your credentials? ;)10:26
radiofreethere's a couple of tools for looking up stored firefox passwords, have a look for one of them10:26
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Triscar0my email is shutdown and thats the one i use on fb and have always had autologin on fb10:28
Triscar0lol radiofree!;)10:28
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radiofreeTriscar0: it'll be somewhere in your profile folder10:29
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radiofreei haven't used a n900 in a while, but it's probably ~/.mozilla/ somewhere10:29
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nid0im confused, if you've got the password saved on your n900 whats stopping you from logging in on your n900.10:30
radiofreemaybe you need the old password to create a new one?10:31
nid0you do, but you dont need it to change your email address.10:31
* radiofree also doesn't have facebook, so that's another probably10:31
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Triscar0the preinstalled browser on n900 isnt firefox?10:34
PaliX-Fade, are you here?10:37
robbiethe1stTriscar0: No. FF/Gecko /based/, but not FF10:37
X-FadePali: Yes.10:37
robbiethe1stIt's got a custom  UI10:37
Palican you see at my problem with kernel-power in package interface?10:37
X-FadePali: What is blocking it now?10:38
Palinew version is still not shown (v47)10:38
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X-FadePali: Did you change the source package?10:39
PaliI did not upload nothing10:39
X-FadePali: Someone was smart enough to actually change the original source file?10:39
X-FadePali: So the md5sum did not match anymore.10:40
Paliyes, I think I changed orig tarball10:40
X-FadeNever _ever_ do that :)10:40
X-FadeNow you need to upload a new version.10:40
PaliI'd like to relase new version v48, but I did not see v47 in package interface so I did not upload anything after v4710:41
X-FadePali: Well, the problem is in your sources. You have uploaded a file with different contents and the same name.10:41
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X-FadeThis completely breaks your package.10:42
PaliOk, and can you fix that?10:42
X-FadeThe only way to fix this is to upload a new version and source with a different name.10:42
PaliSo I need to change debian version which will use other orig tarball?10:44
X-FadeThe whole idea about these debian and orig tarballs is that you keep the original source in place and add your changes in the debian on.10:44
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PaliYes, I'd use orig tarball directly from and in debian/patches are all patch files10:45
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X-FadeSo you now need to upload a new version which uses another original source tarball.10:46
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X-FadeWhich is strange of course :)10:46
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PaliInto v47 I added prefix 1: to version. Maemo repository ignore it?10:47
X-FadeDoesn't matter.10:47
X-FadeThe problem is your source package.10:47
PaliBefore version: "2.6.28-maemo46" after: "1:2.6.28-10power47"10:47
X-FadeAnd yes, it gets ignored in some places.10:47
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PaliAnd all using same orig tarball?10:48
X-FadeJust browse to the dir in the repo.10:48
Paliyes, only one tarball is here:
X-FadeYeah, and that one is the one you have overwritten.10:49
X-FadeSo you are screwed.10:50
PaliI did not know that I can overwrite files in repositories.10:50
PaliAnd it is not possible to change md5sum of this tarball in package interface?10:51
X-FadePali: The problem is not there, it is in the .changes file.10:52
X-FadePali: The package gets checked when it is in incoming, and it doesn't match, so it is rejected.10:52
PaliOk, I asked if you cannot change md5sum in interface, so when new file will be uploaded, it will not be rejected10:54
X-FadePali: The problem really isn't in the interface.10:55
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X-FadePali: The problem is that on promotion, the source files get copied to incoming. It then checks your .changes file and notices that the orig.tar.gz checksum doesn't match. (As you have overwritten it later)10:56
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PaliSo new version v48 can use this orig tarball: ?10:57
PaliOr I need to generate new with other name?10:57
X-FadePali: You can use the one that is there in a new version.10:58
PaliThis above was overwritten when I uploaded v47.10:59
PaliSo If I use this which is in v47 (which overwrite old), all will be OK?10:59
X-FadePali: Let's try :)11:00
PaliOk. I will try to use this which is now in extras-devel11:00
PaliAnd if does not work I will try to create new version which will have other name for orig tarball11:01
PaliOk, thanks very much for info11:01
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psycho_oreosIs it just me or is it really easy to fill up rootfs with syslog? :)12:07
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freemangordonPali: ping12:09
freemangordonLets discuss the issue with kp here, not on tmo12:10
freemangordonOK, my concern is that orig tarballs from maemo repos and are different12:10
Paliproblem is that I overwited tarballs for kernel-power12:11
freemangordonit is stock nokia12:11
Paliand it then md5sum was incorrect12:11
freemangordonget it from maemo repos and overwrite it again12:12
Palibut If I change base version of kernel-power, I upload tarball with other name and all should be ok12:12
freemangordonall the patches trough time were against stock nokia source tarball12:12
freemangordonnot against version12:12
Palinow kernel-power need upstream tarball from kernel.org12:13
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Palidebian/rules needs it12:13
Paliand in debian/patches are stored all diffs against nokia stock kernel12:13
freemangordonbut previous patches were not made against it, what is so hard to understand. Is it my Englsh? Sorry, not native English speaker.12:14
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PaliI understand you12:14
freemangordonI mean were not made against version12:14
Palinow I kernel-power (in git) use:12:14
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Paliorig tarball --> nokia stock patch1 --> nokia stock patch2 --> nokia stock ... --> other KP patch --> other KP patch12:15
psycho_oreosmainly because vanilla kernel (from doesn't contain any CPU compatibility with ARM for starters ;)12:15
Paliso when is applied other KP patch 1 kernel tree is same as nokia stock kernel!12:16
Palipsycho_oreos: So this is reason why I have first nokia stock patches12:16
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Paliorig tarball + nokia patches is same as SDK version of kernel12:16
freemangordonWhy then the patches from your git repo don't  apply against tarball from maemo repos12:17
Paliit can be applied12:17
freemangordonno, they cannot12:17
Palibut you need know correct order and which12:17
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freemangordonhold on12:17
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Palisee in my git repo file debian/patches/series12:18
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Palipatches with name nokia-*.diff is nokia stock12:18
freemangordonwhat do you mean "see it"12:18
freemangordonI pull it12:18
freemangordonput orig tarball where it should be, according to your instructions12:18
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freemangordonand the result is that last successfuly applied patch is phys_to_page.diff12:19
psycho_oreosPali, indeed12:19
freemangordonpatch ext4-data-corruption.diff does not apply OK12:19
Paliagainst KP or stock?12:19
freemangordonagainst stock12:20
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freemangordonthere are differences12:20
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freemangordonthat is the reason why patch does not apply12:20
Paliand if you drop ext4 patch can you continue to apply patches?12:20
freemangordonand noone has idea what else is different12:20
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Venemo_N950morning Maemo12:21
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freemangordonext4-data-corruption.diff is second to last12:21
PaliNow I'm merging my git repo into kernel-power on garage12:21
freemangordondid not play to see if last applies corectly, it does not matter12:21
freemangordonwhy is that?12:21
PaliAfter ext4 are 2 other12:21
freemangordonok, so what?12:22
Palican you try disable this patch and try to apply next?12:22
freemangordonnot now, i am in the office12:22
Paliok, then tell me result12:23
Paliafter I merge my git repo into garage I can look at all patches12:23
freemangordonbut do you get my idea, inability to apply a patch against stock (or Nokia ) orig tarball means that orig tarrball + nokia stock patch1 --> nokia stock patch2 --> nokia stock ... !=12:24
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freemangordonmaemo repos .orig tarball12:25
freemangordonwhich means that we have no clue what is in rusultant source12:25
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Macerthink i am going to be an android convert and get a transformer12:26
freemangordonpali: what do you think?12:27
Macerif i  can print from it i'm sold12:27
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PaliI will try to find error why KP+patches != nokia stock12:28
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freemangordonYou mean + pathces != nokia stock?12:29
freemangordonbut still, isn't it easier to just use stock?12:30
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PaliI think KP+patches == stock, but you wrote that you had problem to apply patch12:30
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freemangordonthat is what was used by titan, matan, me, all other KP developers.12:30
freemangordonyes, I made a post ont TMO about that12:31
PaliNow I see how is nokia kernel different from orig 2.6.2812:31
freemangordondidnt get that12:32
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X-FadePali: Did you look at the linux-omap one?12:32
Paliyes, but a lot of (or all) nokia patches was not commited into linux-omap12:33
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freemangordonpali: I still don't understand why you insist on using version, we are not doing some upstream development here, are we?12:35
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PaliI forgot one thing:12:37
Paliusb host mode needed to revert some nokia patches12:38
Paliand v46 has upstream 2.6.28 tarball (but not same as from + nokia patches without some which broke usb host mode12:38
Palititan did same as I (upstream tarball + nokia patches)12:39
PaliI only changes tarball to correct from (titan maybe created own with same files)12:40
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freemangordonthe upstream tarball titan used is one from here
Palibut you cannot use this for usb host mode12:43
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Palino v46 (by titan) is not using kernel_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz tarball, see:;a=tree;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches;h=ae1455f54c2469a9d7e843558ae410834d134513;hb=a16c87405ab720bcdd1a24e0ce161dd25f2a6c9312:44
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jierohi, any tips to recover the original battery consumption rate for N900? I had it 4% consumed overnight when I first get it. Now 30% ...12:46
nid0remove un-needed shit you have running12:47
jieroXorg always > 6% in top, this isn't normal right?12:47
nid0or reflash the device12:47
jierooMo never did reflash before...12:47
jieroo hand,  M ears12:48
robbiethe1stKill hildon-desktop12:48
villagerjiero: if you're running top in the xterm, then the xterm making X work a bit is normal...12:49
jierorobbiethe1st:  better kill Xorg :D12:49
psycho_oreosand screwup the device :p12:49
robbiethe1stHonestly, I've never had that cause a problem12:49
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psycho_oreosI'm using htop, apart from htop using 6% and AppLock -d using 1% the CPU remains hardly used, Xorg isn't even showing any CPU usage for now. This is with R&D mode enabled, so there must be something going on there. Maybe you're running something on N900's screen or installed some weird program12:51
psycho_oreosmaybe even using programs from extras-{testing,devel}12:51
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jieroone more question: any media player stop a bit when switch to Dashboard. is that a bug?12:51
psycho_oreosok I lied, Applock -d fluctuates between 1-3%. and occasional hildon-status-menu using 1%12:52
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psycho_oreosno that's not a bug. Its probably because your device is lagging12:52
freemangordonpali: I mean the patches here;a=tree;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches;h=ae1455f54c2469a9d7e843558ae410834d134513;hb=a16c87405ab720bcdd1a24e0ce161dd25f2a6c93 are applied against
jieroso it always lags!12:53
jiero:O I must reflash then...12:53
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freemangordonnot against tarball at kernel.org12:53
villagerjiero: maybe you have something running all the time that uses 30% battery *and* slows your device down12:53
Palibut here are nokia*.diff patches which can be applied on orig 2.6.28 kernel12:54
freemangordonbut the result is not the same12:54
psycho_oreoslagging could be because of many things, including cases of where you have a rather bloated home-screen (i.e. lots of widgets, shortcuts, contacts, etc) and you left your device on (without shutting down/rebooting) for extended period of time12:54
freemangordonthat is my point all the time12:54
PaliOk, I can see on this later12:54
freemangordonorigs differ, so is the result12:54
PaliIf there are really problem it should be fixed!12:54
freemangordonyes, use orig from maemo repos :P12:55
jieropsycho_oreos: I don't think I can fix...12:55
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Palithen I need to drop usb host mode support12:55
Palibecase PR1.3 kernel break host mode patches12:55
freemangordonkp46 has patches to fix that12:56
freemangordonit is on top of pr1312:56
psycho_oreosjiero, that's being rather vague :p in my case I have to inevitable reboot the device once every maybe 2-3 days due to my bloated setup12:56
Palii think that kp46 is not on top pr1.312:56
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: jiero, that's being rather vague :p in my case I have to inevitably reboot the device once every maybe 2-3 days due to my bloated setup12:56
freemangordonit is, 100% sure12:56
PaliNow I'm going offline12:57
PaliI see on this12:57
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jieropsycho_oreos: ok, thats very ok to me :D I often reboot for some stuff. rockbox crash, changing theme etc.12:58
jieropsycho_oreos: or run out of power12:58
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psycho_oreosjiero, though there's many many other factors as to why your N900 is chewing more power than what it originally should. So far you've indicated switching from mediaplayer to homescreen you had mediaplayer paused on its own for a bit. That could also be programs running in background interfering with either of those two or something else13:01
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jieropsycho_oreos:  I cannot figure out what is the factor. and forgot what had I done to it. so better reflash:D thats like the time I screw up and play with Ubuntu...13:02
jieropsycho_oreos:  thank you.13:03
massoudHi there, I am scripting phone call / phone release w/ dbus method (dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/csd/call string:"$NUMBER" uint32:0)13:03
massoudI would like now to monitor after how many rings, the call had been picked up on the other side13:03
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massoudand then release the call w/ the Release dbus method13:04
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psycho_oreosjiero, lol reflash is probably the easiest option but you also do realise you would lose customisations, especially any customisations that would generally change the rootfs13:04
massoudalso monitor if the call had been picked up on the other side13:04
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jieropsycho_oreos: also upon the reflash, I finally get the chance to re-partition :D /home/user is too small, and ~/MyDocs way too large. getting 8GB spare and 8GB for to rootfs.13:09
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jieropsycho_oreos: I disabled maxCPU and graphic hardware acceleration and N900 seems become much better.13:26
psycho_oreosjiero, never heard of maxCPU but I do know that graphics hardware acceleration was noted to be buggy on certain device (worse case scenario, may cause crash)13:27
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peterbjornxis there anyway to set the kernel parameters in NOLO13:28
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robbiethe1stIThe one thing I found that really improved percieved performance is setting the minimum speed to 500mhz(and in my case, max 1ghz)13:30
psycho_oreosdoubt it, you'd need flasher tool for starters13:30
robbiethe1stWithout having to be at 250mhz for 150ms, first transitions are smoother13:30
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psycho_oreosI personally would never overclock mine, just a personal belief :)13:31
robbiethe1stYea, but hey - I like the extra speed. It makes it fast enough to completely replace my laptop. I know it'll fail sooner, but I'm willing to take that 'risk'13:32
robbiethe1stI mean, I know I'll have to replace it sooner or later, why not get more power out of it in the meantime?13:32
DocScrutinizer51massoud: there's no such thing like "how may rings" nowadays, not even on landline13:32
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psycho_oreos*shrugs* otoh replacement parts for N900 may soon become rare, so if something bad happens and if you still love your N900. You're pretty much sol imo13:33
nid0can always buy a new one13:34
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psycho_oreosnew `lookalike' one :) afaik Nokia stopped production of N900 long ago, and I did mention that N900 may soon become rare. I didn't say they are rare or you can't buy a new one now :)13:39
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robbiethe1stNot really; N770's are still available, and they've been out of production for /how/ long?13:40
psycho_oreos:o genuine ones?13:40
robbiethe1stMostly used, but...13:41
psycho_oreosit doesn't make much sense, if Nokia stopped producing them, you can't buy it from regular stores anymore. How the hell are you supposed to know if its new or not?13:42
* jpinx is trying to buy a used n900 with broken screen for experimenting and parts13:42
robbiethe1stIf the box's sealed...13:42
psycho_oreosthough stickers aren't too hard to make unless Nokia used holographic type stickers imo :)13:43
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robbiethe1stThere's plenty of holographic fake stickers, though13:43
robbiethe1stSeen a decent copy on my Fake nokia spare battery13:43
jpinxeasy to buy "sealed" ones here, but that's no guarantee of newness13:43
robbiethe1stWell, the way I see it: If it works, and looks new, it's new.13:44
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robbiethe1stI don't care if someone has opened it, touched it, and put it back; so long as it looks in good shape, it's great.13:44
robbiethe1st'course, I generally buy used for that reason...13:44
psycho_oreosplenty of fake holographic stickers are part of the problem. Afaik for my N900 when I first bought mine, it didn't even have a holographic sticker. I can't imagine any of N900's predecessors having a holographic sticker to verify has the box been tampered with or not.13:45
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robbiethe1stWell, in all cases... it's up to trust. Do you trust the seller?13:45
jpinxget a guarantee other than nokia's13:46
psycho_oreosand in either case that would still rest my case that you can't really buy a genuinely brand new N900 :)13:46
robbiethe1stBut would I *want* one? All I said was I would replace my own with a new one. I didn't mean new as in NIB, I meant new as in I-don't-have-it.13:47
robbiethe1stHell, my N770 I got supposedly bricked ;)13:47
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* psycho_oreos would think some ex-N900 owners may sell their damaged N900 after overclocking ;) or maybe when their microUSB port fell out13:48
robbiethe1stI'm a tinkerer... so warrenties typically mean almost nothing - if it lasts a week, I consider it void13:48
psycho_oreosmicroUSB port fell out/or is about to fall out/get broken off, etc13:48
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ruskierobbiethe1st, hehe similar here... though it depends on the price point13:48
robbiethe1stFirst case, maby. And who knows, I might just be able to fix it. Second case, that's what I've got a soldering iron for. Or, I could simply just avoid those...13:48
ruskieup to some 300 eur I won't really much care for warranty13:49
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jieropsycho_oreos: lol, once disable CPUmax, even apt will let audio playback lag!13:57
jierowill not*13:57
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psycho_oreosjiero, there you go, solving your own issue and retaining your current setup without going through the relash route14:01
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psycho_oreoslcuk, ping14:01
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psycho_oreoslcuk, just wondering is /var/log/* stuff optified or at least syslog && syslog.old?14:02
lcukpsycho_oreos, have a read of the optify conf in /etc14:02
psycho_oreoslcuk, *slaps forehead* indeed lol14:02
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psycho_oreosyeah it doesn't appear to be from mine, in fact I later added that entry in as part of my own personal customisation to optification. Btw did you get my memo?14:03
lcuki think so14:04
psycho_oreosfor some weird reason after relocating /var/log/syslog to /opt/maemo/var/log/syslog, symlinking the syslog, adding that entry into /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf and even editing /etc/syslog.conf to point the new log file location. My rootfs free space doesn't change14:05
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psycho_oreosthe one about lbthomson's blog on /var/lib/dpkg being applicable for optification :) that's the credit part sorted out14:06
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slonopotamus_that's all half-measures :) pivot_root to mmc is a way to go :)14:19
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psycho_oreosI've constantly pondered on that thought14:20
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lupine_85hey, has anyone here dealt with Nokia's warranty replacement people?14:26
lupine_85they're trying to give me an N8 as a replacement for my N90014:26
TronicYeah, that sucks. I returned mine (by contacting NokiaCare) and got back a new N900 but that is not possible anymore.14:28
TronicYou can get an E7, though.14:28
psycho_oreosI've read on tmo forums, some people refused to accept N8 and obtained mixed results ranging from E7 to holding out for another device to no deal14:28
lupine_85I don't want an E714:28
lupine_85I want a new N900 or the purchase price of an N90014:28
TronicDepending on your country, you might be able to get your money back but Nokia doesn't want to do that.14:28
lupine_85yeah, I can imagine14:28
psycho_oreosthough some have pointed out that you can sell N8/E7 for another N90014:28
TronicYou can get the E7, sell it for maybe 300 GBP and buy a used N900.14:29
TronicThere is no way you will get another N900 from Nokia anymore :(14:29
lupine_85I'm relaying through a service centre, just started by rejecting it as a replacement due to a list of missing features that only an N900 can fulfil14:29
TronicMy advice is to not return N900s but instead repairing them yourself, or combining parts from two differently broken devices, if you love the N900.14:30
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lupine_85*shrug* I don't love it /that/ much14:30
lupine_85it needs a bigger screen and a less-bastardised debian14:30
lupine_85and a better keyboard :)14:30
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psycho_oreosits a bit too late for lupine_85's case Tronic :)14:30
nid0a proper keyboard is my one big wish tbh :<14:30
lupine_85but I want an E7 or an N8 much less14:31
psycho_oreossymbian is no way near maemo, its like a defunct version of windows ;)14:31
lupine_85I was going to turn the N900 into a little carputer when the time came to get a new phone14:31
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psycho_oreosnear similar to maemo*14:31
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lupine_85yep, they've just offered an E7 instead14:33
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nid0take it14:33
psycho_oreoslupine_85, and have you tried turning them down stating that it can't do this and that? :)14:33
lupine_85they're now talking to their manager14:34
lupine_85I pointed out that with £500, I could buy a new N900 from amazon14:34
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nid0why dyou need £500? you can get new n900's for <£30014:34
lupine_85the warranty says replacement14:34
jaskathey dont have any equivalent models so14:35
lupine_85those are replacements, if nokia can't offer me a suitably refurbished N90014:35
lupine_85they wrote the warranty, not me. I'm just holding them to it14:35
nid0the warranty says they can give you an alternative if they cant reasonably supply a device the same14:35
jaskaitd take a n950 sans aegis tho :)14:35
lupine_85not the one I've read14:35
Troniclupine_85: N900 is as close to Debian you will ever get. N9 is a really nice device but further away from desktop Linux.14:35
lupine_85nid0, which one are you reading ?14:35
* lupine_85 is under as far as he can tell14:35
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lupine_85and all that says is "repairing or, should Nokia in its discretion deem it necessary, replacing the Product in accordance with this Limited Warranty"14:36
psycho_oreosI don't think you can get N950 as a replacement N900. If that were the case I'm sure a fair few N900 owners would be somewhat quite happy to break their N900 just to get N95014:36
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psycho_oreoshmm I misread :/14:37
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lupine_85an N950 would be a suitable replacement14:37
lupine_85but they're not releasing the N9 in the UK, so I wouldn't expect an N950 either14:37
psycho_oreosbut a literal impossible fulfilment :)14:37
lupine_85I'm not asking anything impossible of them14:38
Gh0stywhats wrong with yours?14:38
SpeedEviln950 is not being sold ever14:38
psycho_oreosno I meant to get N950 :) they weren't for sale and only certain sets of people obtained their N95014:38
lupine_85Gh0sty, it was doing the "communications error" thing14:39
lupine_85where it disables the 3G & GPRS radios, etc14:40
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Gh0styhmm read about that, not really seen it myself14:41
Gh0styit's really broken then? :/14:42
jieroIf N950 enter market it may ship similar units as of N900...14:42
nid0it wont.14:42
Gh0stycause there was talks that it was rather provider bound or something?14:42
psycho_oreosbut then it never did, the N95014:42
lupine_85really really broken14:42
jieroHow many N900 was sold? 50,000?14:42
Gh0stypartially regret ever buying it :(14:42
psycho_oreoslupine_85, there were some mods some people did on t.m.o, one bloke bend his pins and made it work I think14:43
Gh0styits a nice device but not supported anymore, no sufficient warranty anymore etc14:43
Gh0styand I bought it in the UK cause here in belgium it was nearly impossible to buy :/14:43
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lupine_85psycho_oreos, mm, but I paid £500 for this device and it came with a 2 year warranty14:44
Gh0styshould start an N900 repair shop :P14:44
psycho_oreosGh0sty, heh welcome to maemo, one of the Nokia's many projects that they have sunk their money in but only for a brief period amount of time before they just got impatient and decided to look for a new toy :)14:44
lupine_85"you can bend some pins (invalidating the warranty) to get it working again" is not a sensible piece of advice14:44
nid0im happy I bought mine through cpw, they still sell them so obviously have replacement stock14:45
jieroGh0sty:  tons of N900 refurbish in China to purchase under ¥90014:45
Gh0styI know I know ... read a lot of stuff on maemo forums as to why nokia completly fucked up their whole business :(14:45
maraineini bought mine from amazon when they were $350....i see now they're selling them for $50014:45
psycho_oreoslupine_85, true but the thing is that you're stuck without your N900 and you would still need to source another N900 if Nokia still refuses to fix your N900 or even give you a replacement N90014:45
Gh0stybought mine for around 500 euro14:46
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psycho_oreosMy old N900 is under contract, my newly acquired N900 (sadly its second hand) I paid around AUD$30014:47
jieroGh0sty: its dear :S. now you can buy another one for 100 euro from China.14:47
jieropsycho_oreos: its much cheaper now14:48
psycho_oreosthough there's a chance you may get fake ones14:48
Gh0stywell new employer is giving me a phone14:48
jieropsycho_oreos: I bought for $220 2 month ago...14:48
Gh0styso probably going to only use it as internet tablet14:48
Gh0styback to the start :)14:48
Gh0styprobably put a 3G only card in it, so no calling ...14:48
jieropsycho_oreos:  then 2 weeks later, the normal price on ebay dropped to $18014:48
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psycho_oreosjiero, heh I bought my second N900 when I was in HK actually. I'm quite skeptical of doing online purchases when dealing with a fairly large wad of cash (imo) so I decided to demo the device prior to buying it.14:49
jieropsycho_oreos: I bought via gumtree :D14:49
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jieropsycho_oreos: $300 is not a lot... but in HongKong you may spend $360 for a brand new one...14:50
psycho_oreosjiero, hopefully you have a nice hw revision :) I'm only basing my belief that hw revision 2101 has microUSB problems. Both my N900 have hw revision 220414:51
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psycho_oreosjiero, had me old man and his mate to do the bargaining but yeah I had to pay a little more than $300, I can't quite remember the exact amount however14:51
jieropsycho_oreos: how do you know my hw revision ?14:51
psycho_oreosjiero, I don't :) I just hope14:52
psycho_oreosas in I hope you didn't get hw revision 210114:52
Gh0stypsycho_oreos: where can you see that number?14:52
jieropsycho_oreos: ok, this is first time I know there is something called "hw revision" :D14:52
psycho_oreosGh0sty, various ways, R&D mode, cat /proc/cpuinfo, etc14:52
lupine_85psycho_oreos, no, they have my N900 - probably in finland somewhere - and have sent back an E814:53
lupine_85erm, N8914:53
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psycho_oreoslupine_85, ewww, but again you're pretty much stuck without your N900 though14:53
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lupine_85if they had sent back £500 in cash, I could get a brand new N900 shipped to me from the US or HK in less time than it took them to send me an N814:53
lupine_85so this is what I'm insisting upon with them14:53
Gh0sty2101 :/14:54
jieropsycho_oreos:  thanks, its 220414:54
psycho_oreosjiero, its not new though :) there was a huge thread, now various other small threads are starting to appear of people complaining microUSB problems14:54
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lupine_85as far as I can tell, an N8 or an E7 is a breach of contract, so if they insist upon that, I'll file on the small claims court14:54
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psycho_oreosGh0sty, I'm not saying that I know for certain, I'm just assuming, because when the unfortunate owners of broken microUSB ports asked. I asked them which hw revision they had, I think all of them reported 210114:55
lupine_85if they ignore that, I win. If they defend it, I will or they will win - probably me, given the wording of the contract14:55
jieropsycho_oreos: my microusb plug bent already~14:55
Gh0styis the n8 new?14:55
Gh0styor is it also a refurb?14:55
psycho_oreoslupine_85, though you that means you need to fork out some money to take them the court as well imo14:55
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jieropsycho_oreos:  do you know 仙剑奇侠传 ?14:56
psycho_oreosjiero, you mean the port?14:56
psycho_oreosjiero, nope :/14:56
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psycho_oreosmy Chinese read/write comprehension is poorer than speaking/listening lol.. lemme google translate that14:56
jieropsycho_oreos: yeah, the port - I dragged my n900 off table.   ok. nvm the Chinese word.14:57
lupine_85psycho_oreos, like £20 or so14:57
lupine_85hee, I've been fobbed off to the care line now14:57
lupine_85this is going to be a fun explanation14:58
psycho_oreosjiero, ouch, they're not completely foolproof :) I guess you're somewhat lucky that the port got bent instead of broken off :) As for the Chinese word I google translated it just because I'm curious. The translation comes up as paladin. Not too sure what that could mean14:59
psycho_oreoslupine_85, ahh that's not too bad, I thought it'd be more than that, i.e. legal fees, lawyer fees, etc15:00
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Gh0stymine has its fixed stand built with lego! :P15:00
Gh0styand the wires run behind the desk :)15:00
jieropsycho_oreos: its Name of a popular Chinese RPG Game, only in Chinese, so you must not played it before.15:00
Gh0stybuild my cellphone stands always with lego15:01
Gh0styif you buy new phone ... it's rebuilding time :P15:01
psycho_oreosjiero, heh I hardly play games online, let alone games in different language.15:01
psycho_oreosGh0sty, there was a bloke selling metal stands for N900, don't know if he still is selling them, but that might be an alternative. I hardly use my stand, so mine hasn't broken off/gone bad yet :)15:02
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psycho_oreosjiero, online games imo these days are becoming way too addictive that one can literally wrap their lives around it. You don't need to look further than games like WoW for instance ;)15:03
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: Bullshit.15:03
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, what? huh?15:03
psycho_oreoswhich part?15:03
* SpeedEvil lost large slices of the late 80s-90s to muds.15:03
SpeedEvilSorry - I should wakeup more before commenting, there was meant to be a comma in there.15:04
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SpeedEvil90s actually, not 80s, on reflection15:04
jieropsycho_oreos: um... I never played MMO much, less than 20hours in total...15:04
psycho_oreosoh online games. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples one can use :) I've lost a large slice during 2003-2007 period to offline && arcade gaming, never again will I go down that path15:05
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jieropsycho_oreos: but Im a 23 years gamer... looking for new experience gaming.15:05
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psycho_oreosjiero, *nods* not trying to sway you off games or anything, just that I've gone too far with being heavily addicted to games.15:06
jieropsycho_oreos:  hmm. thats good:D15:06
psycho_oreosjiero, rather good for burning money away like that :|15:07
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jieropsycho_oreos: I play *free game and now Free game.:D15:08
psycho_oreosjiero, surely your time, internet, maintaining your computer/s, electricity isn't free however :)15:08
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psycho_oreosI still do play games but I also don't spend that much time now on them. I only play offline games to avoid becoming too overly addicted15:09
jieropsycho_oreos: for sure, time is treasure. devote time to create game was fun.15:09
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jieropsycho_oreos: you think so?offline game is less addictive ?15:10
psycho_oreosjiero, game is only a temporary device for entertainment... too much of it becomes an addiction just like smoking/drinking, etc :)15:10
jieropsycho_oreos: or you can watch too many movies or read too many books:D15:11
psycho_oreosjiero, no offline games isn't less addictive than online games but you're somewhat bound to hit the end of the game at one point or another. Online gaming never ends until you say stop basically :)15:11
psycho_oreosjiero, indeed :)15:11
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lupine_85OK, my issue is with their escalations department now15:16
lupine_85(Nokia's, not the care point's)15:16
lupine_85apparently I can expect a response in 3-5 business days15:16
psycho_oreosI probably wouldn't hold my breath ;)15:16
* psycho_oreos recalls of that case of Ovi pissing developers off last year15:17
lupine_85the contract (warranty) is simple and clear15:17
psycho_oreoss/case of/case with/15:17
lupine_85the small claims court process is simple and clear too15:17
lupine_85I bought the N900 on the basis of a number of claims, and a significant one was the operating system15:17
lupine_85those considerations must be the deciding factor in determining whether any other phone can be considered a replacement15:18
javispedrolupine_85: this was also discussed previously though15:19
SpeedEvillupine_85: They have no alternate phone.15:19
javispedromy opinion is that this is done as a goodwill gesture and if you complain they will eventually give you a n90015:19
SpeedEvil(at the moment)15:19
maraineinsee if they'll give you an n95015:19
javispedroalthough you will have to wait15:19
javispedroSpeedEvil: they do15:19
SpeedEvilThe n950 is not an approved retail device for sale.15:19
javispedrothey are still n900s around15:20
SpeedEvilThey are not required to hand out prototypes.15:20
javispedrojust not "many" of them.15:20
lupine_85SpeedEvil, and as a result I will accept the cash necessary for me to source a new N900 for myself15:20
javispedrolupine_85: Nokia will NOT give cash to you15:20
lupine_85then the bailiffs will take it from them15:20
javispedroplease read the European legislation15:20
lupine_85assuming I win the small claims case15:20
javispedroare you in the UK?15:20
lupine_85javispedro, read the contract:
maraineingo and loot one from a phone store :P15:21
lupine_85it seems pretty clear to me15:21
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lupine_85and even if I lose in small claims, it costs maybe £25 quid or so and I will still get whatever the courts decide is a replacement15:22
lupine_85(so the originally-offered N8 or E7)15:22
javispedrolupine_85: where does it say anywhere anything about cash15:23
jieroAny business use N900 ?15:23
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javispedrolupine_85: as I said, _you are going to get the N900_ if you tell them. They will just make you wait whatever they feel.15:23
javispedro*feel up to.15:23
lupine_85javispedro, it doesn't, it says replacement15:23
lupine_85if they don't provide a replacement, they are in breach of contract15:23
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lupine_85further down, it notes that nokia's liabilities are limited to the purchase price of a new phone15:24
SpeedEvilReplacement with identical is not stated.15:24
lupine_85indeed, it is simply "replacement"15:24
lupine_85this is where the salient features I bought the phone for come to the front15:24
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lupine_85I wouldn't have bought it if it had been running symbian, so a symbian phone is not a replacement15:25
lupine_85or so I would argue in the small claims court15:25
javispedroSpeedEvil: the point is taht you could argue the N8 does not do all of the features that the N900 was commercialized for15:25
lupine_85I can point to the smaller screen and lack of keyboard15:25
lupine_85in addition15:25
javispedrothis is all explained in the european directive up to what constitues an "advertised feature"15:25
lupine_85those three features are the essential three that, I feel, must be fulfiled in order for any presumed replacement to be considered a replacement15:25
lupine_85the small claims courts will evaluate the claimed replacement and either conclude that it is or that it isn't15:26
* Jaffa wonders what's going on with the Council. No pre-announcement of the date/time of the meeting lma found here (it was mentioned it was happening). Very interesting log to read (looks at X-Fade ;-))15:26
lupine_85I strongly suspect they'd rule in my favour, or I wouldn't be considering it15:26
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* X-Fade hides15:26
javispedrolupine_85: which is why I say Nokia Care _Will_ give you a N900 if you ask15:27
lupine_85yes, that's where we're at right now15:27
lupine_85I'm waiting to see if they will15:27
JaffaBut they can't guarantee when15:27
Jaffa(or couldn't to me)15:27
lupine_85Jaffa, the contract specifies commercially reasonable15:27
lupine_85if they don't meet that, they are similarly in breach of contract15:28
javispedrothat's not "days"15:28
javispedrothat might be "months"15:28
Jaffalupine_85: And the magistrate would say for an EOL phone they it can't be commercially reasonable for them to build a new batch for you15:28
JaffaSo "months" is realistic.15:28
lupine_85Jaffa, I can get a new N900 shipped to me in under a week15:28
lupine_85EOL or not15:28
JaffaI went for an E7 and sold it "buy it now" within 3 hours on eBay for around 250 quidish (bit more IIRC)15:28
lupine_85months is not comercially reasonable15:28
javispedroNokia will not pay for that15:28
javispedroand months is fully reasonable even in a court15:29
JaffaN8s (even boxed as new - E7 wasn't :-() seem to have lower resale values15:29
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lupine_85it doesn't matter if they will or not, since their liability for breach of contract is equivalent to the price of a new phone15:29
javispedroeither way, IANAL.15:29
lupine_85no, me neither15:29
JaffaSince I didn't, technically, buy mine - I didn't make too much fuss15:29
thomastpHi.  If you have your own repository, and you gpg-sign it, what mechanism is there so that end users can click on my .install file and also get the gpg key ?15:29
javispedroJaffa: :)15:30
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maraineinhow about swapping someone the n8 for an n900? are there sites online that let you swap stuff of similar value?15:30
lupine_85a new N8 is worth much less than a new N900 :)15:31
maraineinwouldn't yours count as used? amazon lists both used n900s and used n8s for around $35015:33
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lupine_85marainein, I'd be happy to accept a used / refurbed N900 from Nokia15:33
lupine_85but not from a random shop elsewhere15:33
kerioi want a boxed n900 :(15:34
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kerioand an openpandora15:34
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maraineinis the day ever going to come when we can get our own customised phones assembled, the way we do with PCs?15:35
SpeedEvilNot soon.15:35
SpeedEvilI should write up this...15:35
SpeedEvilThe fundamental problem is that modularity has costs.15:35
SpeedEvilSay - for example - you want to modularise the modem.15:35
derfSee also: laptops.15:36
SpeedEvilYou need additional components on the PCB to cope with the performance of the connector, you need a couple of connectors, lots of mechaical fixings, a more complex case, and you need to pick a random size.15:36
SpeedEvilThe size you pick will always have space left over.15:36
SpeedEvilMobile high-pin-count connectors are unreliable and fragile.15:37
maraineinthat's too bad15:38
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lupine_85 is definitely the appropriate legislation15:39
SpeedEvilSo, in brief, yes, you can, if you want your phone to be twice as large, and cost twice as much15:39
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lupine_85the wording is "brought into conformity", so the replacement must "comply with the description given by the seller and possess the qualities of the goods which the seller has held out to the consumer as a sample or model"15:40
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lupine_85the advertising definitely includes the keyboard and screen, literally everywhere15:42
* lupine_85 hunts for the N900 adverts that big up maemo15:42
lupine_85 <-- ahahahaha. "get to know maemo"15:42
lupine_85job's a good'un15:42
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maraineinSpeedEvil, most the phones i've heard of are using ARM cpus. if we can't get whatever hardware we like, can we at least put maemo on whatever phone we want?15:46
SpeedEvilA) locked down devices in various ways.15:46
SpeedEvilB) Legality15:46
SpeedEvilC) lack of code for drivers.15:47
SpeedEvilMaemo has binary nokia bits, that you aren't licenced to run on other platforms15:47
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lupine_85the amusing part is, in terms of conformity, most android devices are closer to the N900 than symbian devices16:13
lupine_85(of course, I don't want an android)16:13
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thomastpis there some way to set up an sbox today with an older maemo5 than update 7 ?16:26
thomastpthis looks promising: but I don't know what's behind that ?16:26
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PaliMohammadAG: ping17:17
MohammadAGPali, pong17:18
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Palican you give me permitions for changing status of merge request for my osso-calculator on gitorious cssu?17:18
MohammadAGoh, you can't?17:19
PaliI cannot close merged requests17:19
MohammadAGI thought you could do that but decided not to merge those requests17:19
Palithis was merged:
Palibut I cannot close it17:20
MohammadAGsec, I'll change permissions17:20
MohammadAGis osso-calculator mature enough now?17:20
PaliI think yes17:20
PaliI wrote you mail17:21
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nealWho manages  I just a mail on Sunday to and I haven't heard anything back yet.17:22
MohammadAGPali, mail gets lost sometimes due to meego- mailing lists17:23
MohammadAGPali, permissions updated17:23
Paliok, thanks. I closed merge req. 417:24
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PaliMohammadAG, what about include osso-wlan patch from packet injection into CSSU?17:26
MohammadAGPali, how stable is it when not using the custom drivers17:28
PaliI did not see problems. but it needs to be tested by more people17:28
PaliI extracted patch here:
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* lupine_85 gets confirmation from other IANALs that a replacement should be maemo-tastic17:37
lupine_85or rather, that I can insist a replacement be maemo-tastic17:38
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* GeneralAntilles completely missed the fact there was a Council/Nokia meeting.18:11
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chem|stGeneralAntilles: and what is the juice now?18:19
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GeneralAntillesNothing particularly exciting:
chem|stno n9 in us/uk/de means no mainstream for n9 who would be interessted in developing software?18:20
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Venemo_N950why are they releasing the N9 at all then?18:22
Venemo_N950if noone in any of the important markets will be able to buy it18:23
Venemo_N950what's the point then18:23
mgedminshush, I might want to buy one in my little 3rd world EU member country18:24
mgedminwhich is totally not important18:24
mgedmin(and the point is to say "we released a meego phone, and it didn't sell, so you see the OS sucks and we made the right decision for going with Windows Phone", if you're feeling cynical enough)18:25
Venemo_N950yeah, maybe me too18:25
villagerwasn't there a theory about Nokia's contract with Intel forcing them to release a meego phone... even though they don't want it to be a success18:25
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* lupine_85 makes a sad face at the N918:26
lupine_85it's missing a keyboard, isn't it?18:26
Venemo_N950wut? but how could it be a success if they don't release it in half EU18:26
villagerthat's what I said... they don't want it to be a success, they're just forced to make it anyway18:26
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villagerat least that's what it looks like...18:26
Venemo_N950since it is NOT a meego phone18:27
Venemo_N950and they are NOT releasing it18:27
villagerElop wants his windows phones to be a success, so he can't afford letting N9 be a success, but he's not allowed to cancel it18:27
villageror something18:27
Venemo_N950they won't be able to say "we released a meego phone"18:27
Venemo_N950hehh, lol18:27
javispedrooptimistically, he wants to test the waters before making the full release18:28
villagersure they can... it gets released in Sweden, right?18:28
javispedroand Lithuania18:28
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Venemo_N950and Hungary too18:29
chem|stGeneralAntilles: so in the basics... it was about what happens 01.01.2013 after nokia switched off the lights?!18:29
Venemo_N950if anyone wants, they can send me the money and I'll buy for them18:29
GeneralAntilleschem|st, I doubt anyone will be around to care?18:29
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javispedromaking predictions for 2013 already?18:29
GeneralAntillesvillager, I doubt it.18:30
GeneralAntillesEspecially given how vocal Intel employees seem to be about how not-MeeGo Harmattan is.18:30
villagerGeneralAntilles: you doubt what? the theory about Nokia's contract with Intel?18:30
villagerwell, it's just a theory I've heard, I guess18:31
chem|stjavispedro: no it is about the servercontracts running out in 12/201218:31
chem|stjavispedro: and nokia wont renew18:31
chem|stvillager: they wouldn't do the 950devel release if so...18:31
chem|stVenemo_N950: I would prefer a n95018:32
Venemo_N950I would be eager to hear the REAL story behind the N95018:32
villagerchem|st: perhaps... but they haven't really tried to make the N9 a sales success either...18:32
javispedrochem|st: ah :(18:33
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auenfisnt the real story behind N950 was it was a little flimsy?18:33
chem|stoh uk n9 will only be sold to carriers18:33
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Venemo_N950the whole "won't release" is about Nokia's own store18:34
Venemo_N950noone knows about carriers or resellers18:34
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auenfthere is no nokia store where i am (last i checked)18:34
villagerchem|st: rumors about uk are more like "not at all"18:34
Venemo_N950auenf, flimsy?18:34
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chem|stvillager: just read a "mail from elop" header at TMO18:35
chem|stauenf: what Venemo_N950 said!18:35
villagerchem|st: link?18:35
auenfwasnt n950 not released cause it wasnt going to be durable enough?18:36
chem|stauenf: someone said not FCC compliant18:36
chem|stbut I doubt it18:36
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Venemo_N950point is, I wish there'd be someone to tell the story18:37
auenf"We’ve also learned that Nokia’s first MeeGo device, originally scheduled to be announced late last year, has been sent back to the drawing board by operators.18:37
auenfThe problem, says our source, is in relation to the “flimsy” hardware keyboard mechanism, which fell short of operator standards."18:37
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Venemo_N950auenf, who is 'our source'?18:38
Venemo_N950also, if it was sent back last year, how come that they still manufactured a few hundred of it?18:39
auenfwas rejected AFTER an inital test run?18:39
auenfs/test run/prodution test run/18:39
infobotauenf meant: was rejected AFTER an inital prodution test run?18:39
auenfaltho, i may be guessing things based on other peoples guesses :P18:40
Venemo_N950so they decided to put the already manufactured ones into good use?18:40
Venemo_N950and gave them to us?18:40
auenfwhat else were they going to do with them if they were rejected late in the process?18:40
X-FadeThat is just bull :)18:41
chem|stredo the housing w/o kbd as the board was manufactured in the thousands already?!18:41
X-FadePretty funny how people make up stories :)18:41
chem|styeah the hardware is different so they redesigned18:41
Venemo_N950so they renamed the device, made some new boxes, printed a few pages of 'welcome, developer', and threw in some usb cables? and that's it18:41
javispedrosounds like a good plan18:42
Venemo_N950the inner hardware is about the same18:42
chem|stsounds like never happened18:42
auenfbut who knows if its real, or just multiple guesses put together ;)18:42
chem|stVenemo_N950: no it isn't18:42
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chem|stor if "about" means same cpu and cam module...18:42
GeneralAntillesHi, X-Fade. :)18:43
chem|stand some basics...18:43
X-FadeIt is cheaper to throw phones away then to distrbute them to hackers.18:43
chem|stthe n9 has nfc n950 has not18:43
X-FadeReally ;)18:43
X-FadeEspecially when they need to be CE/FCC tested etc.18:43
Venemo_N950chem|st, afaik the OMAP and CPU are the same18:44
chem|stCE is must have even on devel devices afaik, no idea about fcc18:44
auenfi wouldnt be surprised if they were rejected by the operators after fcc/ce testing18:44
X-Fadeoperators don't really look at the hardware.18:45
X-FadeThey look at software customization opportunities.18:45
X-FadeCrapify them.18:45
chem|stX-Fade: what about channel access stuff of DocScrutinizer51 and me (just to remind...)18:46
chem|stX-Fade: and operator-locks! if verizon or vodafone18:47
X-Fadechem|st: Is there a real need?18:47
chem|stX-Fade: as you were barely around, doc thought it would be appropriate to have him upgraded, for me it isn't realy needed, I poke anyone on the list till I get what I want if not on the list ;)18:48
X-FadeI mean, are we overrun with bots or things we can't handle?18:49
X-FadeIt is very quiet here and only a few people are really active.18:49
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chem|stX-Fade: the last 2 weeks yes18:53
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chem|stX-Fade: actualy your reason for denial is a very good reason to have it18:53
X-FadeI'm just saying that this is more to satisfy your own quest for glory than to fix a real issue? :)18:54
chem|stno leave me out, I am asking for docs upgrade18:55
X-FadeI have no problem with adding people to the access list, as long as it fixes an issue.18:55
chem|sthehe, that is what I said... I don't need access as I can poke s/o anytime...18:56
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X-FadeThen what are we talking about?18:56
X-FadeNow I'm lost?18:56
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chem|stabout DocScrutinizer (jOERG_rw)19:00
chem|stit was just a reminder nothing to discuss realy, he wanted me to have access and himself upgraded month ago19:01
X-Fadewhat do you mean by upgraded?19:02
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chem|stthink he wanted to have fA?!19:02
peterbjornxare there still n950's being "given away19:04
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: say something...19:04
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* chem|st feels like discussing something very unimportant as he already did at work all day, but this time with intelligent opponent^^19:05
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villagerpeterbjornx: and as that thread shows, it's too late...19:07
villagerpeterbjornx: they gave away the last ones 2 days ago or something19:08
chem|stme is out19:09
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peterbjornxi read that19:31
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peterbjornxwell, i hope i can buy one 2nd hand one day19:32
peterbjornx( i know theres only 250 of them)19:32
hiemanshuplus 50 from the extended program19:32
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GeneralAntillespeterbjornx, there are way more19:39
GeneralAntillesThat's just the community program.19:39
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Venemothere were programs for non-community devs too in
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GeneralAntillesPlus the commercial partners19:45
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villagerand I think the 250+50 community devices are only loan devices that can't be resold?19:46
Venemovillager, you think right, yet19:48
Venemoor yes19:48
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DocScrutinizer51chem|st: I'm out in the wild, with a crappy BTS19:57
luke-jrVenemo: doh, I guess I missed that19:58
Venemoluke-jr, what?19:58
luke-jrbut N950 didn't really look like that much different from N90019:58
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luke-jrVenemo: I submitted a community application, just in case they accepted non-Maemo stuff19:59
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: so most of the time all you see is my bouncer19:59
DocScrutinizer51I'm not even sure if I'm still online19:59
luke-jrdidn't realize there was a separate thing for that19:59
VenemoDocScrutinizer51, right now, you are!19:59
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ShadowJKluke-jr, N950 has 4 times the ram of N900, that's the biggest reason you'd want it20:01
luke-jrit does? :o20:01
luke-jroh well, too late; nobody ever replied to my question on whether non-Maemo stuff qualified at all :|20:01
DocScrutinizer51so hi there from chaos communication camp20:01
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: hey :p20:02
SpeedEvilvillager: I don't actually recall anything in the agreement saying you can't sell it - just that if you lose it you are due to pay 500e20:03
ShadowJKluke-jr, officially only "Apps" qualify. In practice they've given N950s to other non-App things to known/notorious/etc people :P20:03
SpeedEvil(I would not of course recommend anyone sell theirs! :)20:03
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luke-jrShadowJK: oh well, they don't care for Gentoo it seems XD20:03
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DocScrutinizer51like me :-P20:03
SpeedEvilhey DocScrutinizer. Sounds like fun.20:04
luke-jrkinda makes sense, since Gentoo probably has no viability on the N920:04
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DocScrutinizer51actually my comfort requirements make me think it'd be more fun to stay at home rather tahn deal with wet sleeping bag and congestion on GPRS + WLAN here20:05
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DocScrutinizer51it's just too crowed too to be real fun, we almost found no free ground to place tents20:08
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DocScrutinizer51as my driver managed to be 8h late, minimum20:09
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nox-DocScrutinizer51, you watching the opensource hw talk?20:35
DocScrutinizer51when? where?20:35
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SpeedEvilOpensource hardware fails in many ways.20:39
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SpeedEvilPrimarily that a compile takes often 6 weeks, and $2k for a phone-class object.20:39
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fralselop is pretty good with words21:27
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Venemofrals, really? what did he say this time?21:30
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Venemofrals, has he convinced you to learn WP7 coding? :P21:30
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ShadowJKWhy the flying fsck would I want to buy anythign from doublecrossing thieving carriers21:31
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fralshe is keen to point out operators says what they want21:36
fralsbut not saying anything about the other case21:36
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flailingmonkeymanufacturers can always influence operators in whether their products are offered21:43
flailingmonkeyclaiming that it is up to the operator is implying that they have no influence in the matter21:43
flailingmonkeyhe doesn't want to reveal whether or not Nokia is trying to limit release of N9 in Microsoft friendly markets21:44
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Jartzaat least they won't sell MeeGo in north america21:47
Jartzahe's saying something on one day and other on next day :)21:47
KMFDMhes just trying to make sure n9 won't threaten he windows phone release from what i can tell21:48
flailingmonkeyKMFDM: yes, that much is clear21:50
flailingmonkeyKMFDM: only explanation for Elop's quashing of hype and interest in N9, when right after it was revealed he says it will be only MeeGo phone from Nokia21:51
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GAN900He wants Microsoft to be it.22:20
GAN900He's a plant.22:20
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