IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-08-09

sevvvwhy is a phone's gps incapable of doing this and instead reliant on a-gps?00:00
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ShadowJKcar gps has the advantage of fix mount, no users waving it franticly around, no users blocking signal with hand and body :-)00:00
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lcukjust a great big hulk of metal00:00
sevvvheh, i've taken my dash mount garmin gps hiking with me and it doesn't have an issue keeping a signal00:01
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SpeedEvilThe a-gps page on wikipeia is also good.00:01
sevvvmgedmin: this article is awesome.00:01
SpeedEvil(Or was, when I was editing it)00:01
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villagersevvv: possibly because the phone's antenna is not good enough to receive the satellite data reliably, I think00:02
sevvvcould that be boosted?00:03
ShadowJKespecially when the datarate is so low it takes half a minute of good signal to receive ephemeris00:04
sevvvalright, so i should just be looking for the cheapest phone with gps instead of trying to compare specifications00:04
SpeedEvilWhy do you want a phone with GPS>00:05
sevvvSpeedEvil: I need to track 10 people running cross country across the US from coast to coast00:05
SpeedEvilI suggest anvils.00:06
sevvvI need cheap phones with gps, the ability to connect it to a pc via usb/bluetooth/whatever, and exports to gpx, csv, kml, whatever.00:06
nid0why not use an actual gps tracker designed for that purpose?00:06
SpeedEvilThere are general GPS trackers00:06
ShadowJKthere are dedicated gps+gsm trackers iirc00:06
sevvvnid0: I can't find any that are cheap enough for my budget00:07
SpeedEvilSee on wiki.openstreetmap.org00:07
nid0first result on google for me is £8500:07
sevvvShadowJK: none of them will have cellular subscriptions00:07
nid0thats a damn sight cheaper than most gps-equipped phones00:07
sevvvnid0: i'm looking in the 20-30 usd range, buying used phones.00:07
sevvvso there's lots and lots of gps tracking software out there, most of them java, that's great00:09
sevvvbut i can't find hardware00:09
SpeedEvilAsk over in #osm over on irc.oftc.net00:09
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fusilcuk: andriod vs ios dev article00:18
fusidoes andrios really not use an invalidat-rect system to redraw?00:19
lcukfusi, IDK, I just glanced over the article and rted00:19
* lcuk is not android user00:19
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GAN900Holy shit.00:27
GAN900Just ran into an actually N900 user-user.00:27
wmaroneyou mean, a non-linux-geek?00:28
GAN900i.e., a sucker.00:28
GAN900From Nigeria, no less.00:28
SpeedEvilDid you attempt to grill them?00:29
SpeedEvilI'm astonished that the n900 user study is still running.00:29
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ShadowJKI saw something weird in repos the other day00:31
SpeedEvilI've sacrificed privacy for $5/mo in payments.00:31
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ShadowJKsomething with "Nokia" in the name and dependency on openjdk00:32
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DocScrutinizer51is anybody joining chaos camp?00:37
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ZuccaIhad swappiness set to 100... Is this really a default value?00:42
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ShadowJKWhat's chaos camp?00:46
SpeedEvilIt's some sort of crazed orgy in Germany I think.00:46
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GAN900Burning Man for Germans?00:50
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cehtehonly computer geeks there01:04
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DocScrutinizeror rather:
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DocScrutinizerthe CCC's each year between xmas and new year are a true parallel universe - I hope this to be even better01:15
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DocScrutinizerhackers' loveparade ;-)01:18
DocScrutinizerGAN900: if it was only for Germans, probably there wouldn't be a majority of talks in English01:24
GAN900DocScrutinizer, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean.01:26
DocScrutinizerI know what you mean, I just wonder why you're not there :-)01:27
GAN900Besides, don't dialects often make German language conversation from region-to-region chancey business?01:27
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GAN900No money for airplanes?01:27
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: our dialects are no worse than yours01:27
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lardmanyes, very hard to understand those Americans ;)01:29
lardmanall the missing u's01:29
lardmanhow's everyone this evening?01:30
lardmanall those not in London that is01:30
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DocScrutinizerhaving fun in London?01:40
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GAN900lardman, well at least our Northerners and Southerners can understand one another. :P01:42
lardmanGAN900: after that little war you had a few years back? ;)01:43
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lardmanhow's things GAN900? Long time no see01:43
DocScrutinizerthe % of population we don't understand here is no larger than on your side of the pond01:43
* lardman is watching BBC News 24 and London riots seem to be pretty nasty and widespread01:44
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DocScrutinizeryou got some really angry kids over there01:45
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lardmanyeah, pretty random, who'd have thought this would happen01:45
GAN900DocScrutinizer, that's not what the tourists say.01:46
maybeHereremember kids: it's only fun when it's other people's cars that are burning x_x01:46
lardmanII doubt many of them are old enough to drive01:48
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!01:52
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ThreeMhildon desktop with portraitmode looks pretty nice :)  but the widgets need ajustments in size :)01:53
lardmaninfobot: ah, you greet Doc, but don't answer my friendly greeting in #harmattan, I could take offence01:53
maybeHere x_x01:53
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lardmancould someone with fremantle sb up and running see what maemo-version(-dev) creates by way of files in /etc for me please?01:59
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lardmananyone know whether one can have conditionals within a "section" of a debian/rules file?02:08
lardmane.g. I'd like to execute dh_installinit within the ibinary-arch: section f we're under Fremantle, but not Harmattan02:08
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lardmannight all02:17
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DocScrutinizerDangerMaus: long time no see!02:26
DangerMaustoo busy to do anything02:27
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Termanagood morning05:51
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fusijust got a random tweet06:06
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dunelj_hmm, now I more focus on media play, svg-edit, boot debian 5 with touch support, and games.06:08
dunelj_None of those humble indie bundle game ported to N900, they even got PSP port :S06:09
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dunelj_N9 sale in one month. Maybe in 2 weeks.07:27
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antman8969I know poeple were complaining about where it was being released07:37
antman8969is there any reason I can just buy it form EU and ship it to US and use it?07:37
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ShapeshifterDoes someone here tether via PAN? For me it works every now and then but 9 out of 10 times I try to connect, my laptop can't get an IP address via dhcp; it times out. once it has an ip, it works very well. I tried two different scripts from tmo.08:44
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aslaniX-Fade: ping09:46
aslaniI got a message from logica, that they have some issues with datacenter, so is down for awhile, sorry09:47
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aslaniok, they got it up. somehow managed to bork their disks again. :)09:54
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ruskie <-- hmm12:52
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jierowhat if apple acquire Nokia/?12:54
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andre__jiero: and what if $foo buys $bar?12:59
dm8tbrfoo and baz come into a bar, baz buys foo a drink...13:00
jieroandre__: no worry13:00
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crashanddieVerizon. Know anyone who works there?15:06
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peterbjornxdoes anyone here know where in the boot process X is launched15:13
peterbjornx(on the N900)15:13
peterbjornxi cannot find it and i have browsed every init script15:14
peterbjornxof runlevel 215:14
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peterbjornxas all of a sudden, in S22-af-services it checks if X is running yet15:15
peterbjornxwhile i havent found any code that executes Xorg15:15
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Siceloi'm a layman peterbjornx. perhaps try to find hildon* in the scripts you mention :/15:22
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RST38hSomebody ban the idiot15:22
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crashanddieRST38h, which one?15:24
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peterbjornxmayday_jay obv15:25
crashanddiewhy? What did he do?15:25
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie15:27
*** crashanddie sets mode: +b *!~Mayday_ja@2001:470:b0ba:0:200:1aff:fe19:b8c515:27
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peterbjornx-> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen15:29
peterbjornx<- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood)15:29
peterbjornx-> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen15:29
peterbjornx<- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood)15:29
peterbjornx-> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen15:29
peterbjornx<- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood)15:29
peterbjornxo, well nevermind15:29
peterbjornxyou noticed already15:29
crashanddiewow, IRC in dutch is still as crappy as it used to ;)15:29
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peterbjornxyeah it is15:33
peterbjornxim using opera15:33
RST38hlcuk: fun in London lately?15:33
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lcuknothing of last few days can be described as fun15:34
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RST38hlcuk: ok, I have skipped the quotation marks15:35
crashanddielcuk, joining in the "Clean Riot" thingie?15:35
lcukeverybody should15:36
RST38hlcuk: any expected consequences though? random strip searches? rectal CCTV installations?15:36
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crashanddieRST38h, some people's lives got ruined.15:37
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RST38hcrash: that I have figured out from the videos15:45
RST38hcrash: the extent of the mayhem is not clear though, when watching it from afar15:46
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peterbjornxdoes anyone here know where in the boot process X is launched15:48
RST38h xinit that starts from rc.d?15:48
peterbjornxwhat rc.d file15:50
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peterbjornxi was viewing each script up to S22af-services which checks if X is running15:50
crashanddieRST38h, a few streets have been wrecked15:52
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peterbjornxbut , where is X/startx/xinit being started15:53
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GAN900Oh, rioters.16:06
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RST38hbtw NOK fell below $516:08
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keriogood job Flop16:11
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TermanaRST38h, half the market probably fell below $516:13
nid0clearly a canadian ceo of a finnish company's solely responsible for the collapse of the entire american stock market16:14
RST38hTermana: Intel is holding, surprisingly16:14
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GAN900Hooray for idiots in Washington.16:21
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GAN900If anybody needs to be rioting it's the US.16:23
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RST38hGAN: Won't happen, not right away anyway16:24
RST38hWhen it does, you will not like it, too16:24
lardmanthese guys aren't rioting because of austerity measures16:25
RST38hNobody is saying austerity measures are to blame16:25
lardmanand anyway you guys in the US have happily been spending your bonds to avoid too much pain thus far16:25
RST38hlardman: just wait =(16:26
lardmanRST38h: indeed16:26
GAN900lardman, hey, I didn't vote for them.16:26
lardmanGAN900: no worries, just the view of an outsider16:27
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RST38hlardman: this shit usually happens when you have got abundance of young males who do not have much to do and [most importantly] do not expect to have anything to do or make any change to anything16:27
RST38hlardman; So, they make change the only way they know16:27
GAN900When the bribe money for your constituents runs out the taxpayer isn't responsible for footing a bigger bill.16:27
lardmanRST38h: yeah, seems to be a small part of a generation who have no hopes16:27
TermanaRST38h, are you talking about the riots or the US economy now?16:27
GAN900Cut the entitlements, cut the military spending, cut the subsidies.16:27
RST38hlardman: whether it happens in UK or fucking Kyrgyzstan or Palestine is of no importance16:27
GAN900Cut the drug war, cut the TSA, privatize the FAA.16:28
lardmanGAN900: I don't know the specifics over here, but seems similar to the plans that are being implemented here16:28
lardmans/over here/over there16:28
RST38hAh, General, you will absolutely *love* Dan Simmons' "Flashback"16:28
GAN900lardman, the White House is pushing for socialism16:28
GAN900and the Senate is pushing for bribes for their voters.16:29
RST38hSorry, but this is no socialism16:29
radiofreeGAN900: oh let me guess, another I.T Libertarian?16:29
* RST38h sometimes wishes Obama pushed for *real* socialism. That would be fun.16:29
lardmanObama is what a democrat?16:29
Termanalardman, yes16:30
lardmanand democrats are more left wing than republicans?16:30
RST38hStarting with tough price controls on medical services and enfing with nationalizing largest banks.16:30
radiofreedemocrats are to the left of republicans16:30
TermanaI am forced to stab my eyes every night watching Fox News because there is no interest Australian shows16:30
radiofreebut compared to european parties, they are farther to the right than most conservative parties!16:30
lardmanradiofree: ok, that was my assumption from the default business16:30
TermanaBut at least I get some laughs16:30
RST38hTermana: Surely there should be a BBC channel somewhere? Or are you at a US military base?16:31
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lardmanradiofree: yeah, that's a difficult thing to get a handle on16:31
lardmanfor us over here anyway16:31
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TermanaRST38h, in Australia. I have pay-tv, but it's mostly repeats and crap. I have BBC I think, and CNN. And then all the other channels they chuck on16:31
radiofreeit's like health care, how can that not be something worth having? Republicans just shout the word "SOCIALISM!!" and most people revert back to the cold war16:31
GAN900RST38h, too socialist for my blood.16:31
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radiofree^ see16:32
Termanaand Sky News16:32
GAN900radiofree, that's a vast simplification of the issue.16:32
RST38hGAN: Look at it logically then16:32
Termanabut they all seem boring. Even though I disagree with a lot of what is said on Fox News16:32
RST38hGAN: This is no fucking socialism. Not really.16:32
lardmanradiofree: healthcare is certainly worth having but it has to be done efficiently16:32
GAN900RST38h, I'm for demand based healthcare.16:33
RST38hGAN: Just a relatively approval worthy attempt to give you afforable health care, a failed attempt too16:33
lardmanwhich is an issue we have here16:33
GAN900Keep the idiocy out.16:33
GAN900Keep prices down.16:33
RST38hGAN: Having a federal health care plan would do that16:33
GAN900RST38h, Obamacare is unworkable.16:33
RST38hGAN: Dunno, did not get into details16:33
GAN900No, look at Medicare and Medicade to see how well the Feds can work it.16:34
GAN900They can't.16:34
lardmanFrom what I saw the problem with free healthcare in the US is that is annoys the people who pay their taxes and have provate healthcare that they will pay for those who don't have health insurance16:34
radiofreethat's why they need to fix it16:34
RST38hGAN: But having a federally managed insurance plan does not sound like such  bad idea to me16:34
RST38hlardman: Ah no16:34
radiofreeyes, what is the quote about the american poor/working class16:34
RST38hlardman: The problem is not with annoying stupid people16:34
radiofreethey don't see themselves as poor, rather temporarily embarrassed millionaires16:34
GAN900But as radiofree has so aptly demonstrated, you can't argue with feel-good emotions.16:34
GAN900Then you're just an evil rich white person.16:34
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RST38hlardman: The problem is with the whole hc insurance industry that will see its business model disappear16:34
lardmanand they (and other large industrial bodies) hold serious sway afair over there16:35
RST38hlardman: there are huge non-profits there, making huge margins, paying no taxes, enriching whoever is managing them16:35
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lardmanwhich is due to what, the way that senatorial campaigns are funded?16:35
GAN900lardman, them, and unions16:36
RST38hlardman: more or less16:36
GAN900any group who holds sway over money and voters holds sway over elected officials.16:36
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RST38hbasically, GAN is correct16:36
lardmanis this all transparent or hidden - i.e. do you have lists of donations made to each senator and from whom?16:36
lardmanand for how much16:36
GAN900Stick the money going towards health insurance into individual savings accounts16:36
RST38hlardman: yes and no16:36
GAN900and switch to a demand-based system16:37
GAN900Competition goes up, prices go down, quality goes up.16:37
lardmanGAN900: what's a demand based system?16:37
RST38hGAN: Nah, that will also fail16:37
GAN900lardman, pay when you need it.16:37
radiofreewhat exactly is a demand-based system?16:37
radiofreeif you can't afford to pay you can't be treated?16:37
RST38hGAN: It will fail as the hc prices inflate and your account won't be able to keep up16:37
GAN900Like buying groceries.16:37
lardmanGAN900: won't that be very expensive?16:37
ruskiethe gov here(.si) scrapped the partial participation through health insurance simply because most of the money going to the insurance companies doesn't end up in the hc budget16:37
RST38hGAN: So, at least as far as hc is concerned, some price controls are needed. Or an artifical alternative like afederal hc plan.16:38
lardmanruskie: yeah that seems to be a major problem with adding an extra layer16:38
radiofreeok, so you think that will drive down the common prices, what if someone gets a rare type of cancer that requires specialist treatment?16:38
ruskieI'm happy we have national health care around here though16:38
GAN900lardman, hardly.16:38
GAN900Doctors and hospitals will actually have to compete for your business16:38
RST38hWell they still do right now16:38
GAN900instead of competing to get on insurance providers lists.16:39
radiofreeGAN900: why do you trust in the benevolence of "the markets" so much?16:39
GAN900Ultimately it'll drive prices down16:39
radiofreehaven't they already shown themselves to be pretty much the opposite?16:39
lardmanGAN900: my business by proxy though, as people won't be able to afford it themselves16:39
RST38hReally? You think so?16:39
GAN900radiofree, that statement is so fundamentally flawed. . . .16:39
RST38hGAN: You do understand that it is in the best interest of all market players to keep prices up?16:39
GAN900The two biggest components to health costs right now are overconsumption and insurance overhead.16:40
* lardman is enjoying this conversation, but must crack on with some coding16:40
GAN900RST38h, it's not.16:40
RST38hGAN: And the only way the prices can go down is in the result of a price war, event completely unwanted by all the players?16:40
GAN900Somebody will figure out they can get more customers if they charge reasonable prices.16:40
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radiofreeover-consumption, of health care? is that a joke?16:40
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GAN900RST38h, you're talking about a monopoly or duopoly situation.16:40
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RST38hGAN: oligopoly rather16:40
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RST38hGAN: But anyway, you are forgetting that these guys need to maximize profit, not throughput16:41
RST38hGAN: And maximizing throughput is only one of many ways to maximize profit.16:41
RST38hGAN: Not very effective or safe one BTW16:41
GAN900radiofree, I'm talking about testing without justification from symptoms or other indicators.16:42
SpeedEvilradiofree: no. Procedures carried out for the purpose of carrying them out, with limited evidence they help patients.16:42
GAN900Like running cat scans on anybody coming in with any kind of trauma.16:42
RST38hGAN: Do consider other ways and then you may get really scared16:42
SpeedEvilradiofree: Not to mention the elderly hanging on for another couple of weeks.16:42
RST38hGAN: I mean all these are ok with groceries where demand is elastic16:42
RST38hGAN: But hc is no groceries, it has got pretty stiff deman curve16:43
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RST38hGAN: Same goes for most of the utilities BTW16:43
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GAN900RST38h, I feel that I'm more qualified to make healthcare decisions for myself than Washington is16:48
RST38hGAN: But Washington has never intended to make any hc decisions for you, just give you an option16:48
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GAN900and I'd rather see private charities, who actually have money and incentive to help people, provide for those who can't than Washington.16:49
GAN900RST38h, bullshit.16:49
RST38hGAN: No, really - the plan was to have an optional federal hc plan you can enroll in, OR you can enroll into a private plan of your choice16:49
GAN900Making it illegal not to have health insurance isn't not "choice".16:49
RST38hGAN: Which changes nothing to the current private hc plan customers BUT drops private hc prices through the floor16:50
RST38hGAN: Ah you mean that one16:50
RST38hGAN: Yes, I found that part funny too :)16:50
GAN900and it DOES change private plans.16:50
GAN900Invoking the commerce clause on a non-action is particularly revealing.16:50
RST38hGAN: It is pretty much just a way to tax you a little extra. BTW, MA has it in their laws16:50
RST38hAnd they DO have a state hc plan16:51
RST38hCosts something like $86/year in taxes, I think16:51
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GAN900States have that power under the constitution16:51
RST38hI have not heard anybody complain about the MA plan.16:51
GAN900The Federal government does not.16:51
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RST38hI mean, they do complain about taxes all the time but not about this particular item16:52
GAN900I have.16:52
GAN900Quite vocally.16:52
GAN900Either way, individual states should do whatever their voters feel is appropriate.16:52
lardmanbriefly stepping back on topic, what does a preceding pair of colons mean, with no class? E.g. ::socketpair()16:52
crashanddieenough of the crappy states discussions.16:52
crashanddieWho cares about the US of A16:53
RST38hDunno, I also agree that forcing everyone to have a plan federally is stupid16:53
GAN900The federal government doesn't quite have that freedom of action under the constitution16:53
RST38hEspecially if you do not provide an affordable option for this plan16:53
RST38hlardman: default namespace16:53
RST38hlardman: in your case, probably std::16:53
GAN900crashanddie, people who live here. But lardman has a real question so it'd time to stfu.16:54
lardmanRST38h: I guessed as much, unfortunately they don't belong to std but are in signal.h16:54
RST38hlardman: I think that belongs to std:: somehow :)16:55
crashanddielardman, I think it's global scope, not default namespace.16:55
lardmanyeah, perhaps I need to include <signal> rather than signal.h or somesuch16:55
GAN900crashanddie, probably the Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans and Germans, too. :P16:55
RST38hcrash is probably right16:56
crashanddieGAN900, do you know anyone who works at Verizon Miami?16:56
lardman is what I'm following, perhaps foolishly ;)16:56
crashanddieglobal variable/function.16:57
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GAN900crashanddie, Miami is, like, 250 miles away by car.16:58
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crashanddieGAN900, glad you're offering to go there yourself. $200 daily rate working for you?16:58
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RST38hcrash: Will he get a gun for this job?16:59
crashanddieHe might get a gun pointed at him.16:59
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RST38hcrash: Verizon is *that* tough?17:00
crashanddieIn all seriousness, one of our customers contracted Verizon to provide VoIP lines between EU and US (about 900 of them), and they're not answering to emails and we can't get a hold of anyone remotely technical.17:00
crashanddieWe explain we're a telco operator, and they're asking if we're calling for an iPoone or whatever.17:00
crashanddieIn this case, I'd say we're getting iPwned.17:01
RST38hcrash: A moment.17:02
GAN900RST38h, got one. :P17:02
RST38hthere might be an easier way to get this solved17:02
RST38hGAN: Ah, then it will be the ultimate deathmatch: a disgruntled customer vs the phone company operator!!!17:02
RST38hcrash: Try one of these:
GAN900crashanddie, Verizon is pretty terrible.17:04
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crashanddieYeah, I know.17:04
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Don't they have dedicated 'we're spending silly amounts of money' lines?17:04
crashanddieWe get more responsiveness out of BT on christmas night than from Verizon during business hours.17:04
RST38hSpeed: no17:05
crashanddieSpeedEvil, there are, but they are restricted from US callers.17:05
RST38hHell, I am getting almost instance response from MGTS17:05
RST38hWhile with Verizon it is always 45+ minutes of voice menus and human-manned voice menus17:05
crashanddieRST38h, you do realise I'm the product manager of one of the servers that powers those menus, right ;)17:06
RST38hcrash: Well, you are not buying them to torture your customers, are you?17:06
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crashanddieBuying? I'm developing it.17:06
TermanaBastard. Explains everything17:07
RST38hcrash: BTW, please, tell me, those Indians, do you keep them in dungeons, feeding them at the endo f the day based on the number of customers they sent away cussing?17:07
crashanddieHeck, the last side-project I worked on was a maze of menus and "Wait, don't hang up, we've got something special for you!" at 1.5euro per minute.17:07
villagerRST38h: "std::" is not the default namespace, it's the namespace used by the Standard C++ Library... normally you'd use "using namespace std;" at the top of the program to make the "std" namespace searched automatically when a namespace isn't explicitly specified17:08
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* RST38h reconsiders his plans not to mention crashanddie to the Tentacled One17:08
RST38hvillager: sorry, my mistake.17:08
crashanddieRST38h, then again, it's a charlatan service (palm reading/future), so us making money out of people's credulity only feels like natural selection.17:09
crashanddieOr at least, that's how I help myself sleep at night.17:09
RST38hcrashanddie: Ok, no extermination then, just a life-long case of hemorrhoids.17:10
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vi__is there a nice easy way to turn on the flash to use as a torch17:11
RST38hvi: yes17:11
RST38hvi: the Extras has got the Flashlight app.17:11
vi__i.e. echo 1 > /sys/somthing/somthing/flash/enable17:12
SpeedEvilvi__: no17:12
SpeedEvilvi__: It's a v4l control.17:12
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SpeedEvilSo you need to open /dev/vide0? and then do the rleevant ioctl17:12
vi__is flashlight applet the only thing available?17:12
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SpeedEvilI have use v4lctl to turn it on17:12
SpeedEvilBut it goes off immediately, and only flashes17:13
SpeedEvilAs v4lctl closes the FD17:13
vi__SpeedEvil: is it acheivable from a shell script?17:13
SpeedEvilvi__: I'm going to say probably not.17:13
SpeedEvilAt least, not withanything I've seen.17:13
SpeedEvilvi__: Why?17:13
vi__because I want to have the option of a flashlight without the stupid applet that cause >200 wakeups per 30s17:14
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SpeedEvilvi__: Err - why?17:14
SpeedEvilWakeups are - generally - a lie.17:14
BCMMuh, you want to save battery while using the flash?17:14
vi__speedevil now that is not strictly true17:15
SpeedEvilThey are a very, very poor indication of power consumption in any but the idle state.17:15
BCMMin any case, not a shell script, but could be done in a very short C program17:15
SpeedEvilEven then, they are not great.17:15
vi__NO! I want to save battery when I am NOT using the flash!17:15
villagera python script might also be able to do it, maybe17:15
SpeedEvilvi__: Somethings wrong the.17:15
SpeedEvilvi__: I get no extra wakeups from the flashlight applet17:15
SpeedEvilTypical idle times of several seconds.17:15
SpeedEvilYouare unplugging it andblanking the screen before running powertop?17:16
SpeedEvilIdeally turning the net off, and doing this through screen?17:16
vi__to run powertop I :17:16
vi__sleep 30; powertop && powertop && powertop17:16
SpeedEvilSee above17:17
vi__then average the results17:17
vi__in offline mode17:17
SpeedEvilWith screen blanked?17:17
vi__thats what the 30 seconds is for17:17
SpeedEvilAnd unplugged from USB?17:17
SpeedEvilHAve you been screwing withthemenus?17:17
SpeedEvilAnd got a nice short menu screen?17:18
SpeedEvilerr appmenu17:18
vi__The appmenu is as is, I hav'nt added/removed anything17:19
SpeedEvilPastebin plz17:19
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markinfocan I setup my Facebook Account  in this internal Chat system on nokia n900? Is it safe enough?17:21
vi__markinfo: as safe as any other software written by basement dwelling nerds17:21
ShadowJKThe flashlight widget didn't increase the amount of wakeups for me17:22
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BCMMmarkinfo: facebook chat can be accessed as a ordinary Jabber account17:26
BCMMnot sure what you mean about "safe enough"17:26
markinfoWould be better to setup Facebook in Pidgin?   as in this internal program?  (besides - what is the name of it?)17:27
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BCMMmarkinfo: depends if you prefer pidgin to the Conversations app17:28
* ShadowJK checked source, flashlight-plugin has a 1s timer running whenever flashlight is on (LEDs on), checking the status of hte led controller17:28
BCMMmarkinfo: (the conversations app is the same one you use for SMS - it can send IMs in a similar interface)17:28
markinfohm - advantage of pidgin - i know where are the contacts stored.17:29
markinfowhat is the name this app for chats? (SMS too)17:29
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BCMMmarkinfo: the application is called "Conversations". when you said "empathy", you may have been thinking of "telepathy"17:31
markinfoTelepathy - it is in Gnome17:31
BCMMtelepathy is the (non-maemo-specific) framework used for IM17:32
crashanddieMan man man, 2011 really isn't a good year for Sony. Now their warehouses are set ablaze.17:32
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markinfowell - facebook account to do in Conversations or in Pidgin?17:32
BCMMmarkinfo: i use facebook chat in conversations and it works fine17:32
BCMMit's just a regular Jabber account. You may need to enable it on teh facebook website, for existing facebook accounts at least17:33
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markinfoI had it in Pidgin on my notebook. But another more important Question. If I want backup contacts data from this Program "Conversations" - how to do that?17:40
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peterbjornxis it possible to compile BTRFS support into maemo's kernel18:01
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crashanddiepeterbjornx, I doubt it.18:07
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keriopeterbjornx: you don't really need it, do you18:15
keriounless you want your root FS to be on btrfs18:15
keriowell, /usr/ too18:15
keriobecause ~optification18:15
infobotwell, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot318:15
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crashanddiethe N9 won't be available in the US18:17
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Jaffacrashanddie: Similar response to TheInq about teh UK18:20
Arkenoiseems that Elop is really worried about n9 success18:20
Arkenoiin the negative sense of course18:20
Arkenoihe cannot afford that18:20
wblazeOn top of the N9 coming in variants that run "meego" and "mango"? :|18:20
crashanddiewtf is mango?18:21
wblaze"Windows 7 Mango"18:21
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radiofreeheh, "We had enough of troubles with Windows on our computers. Let's keep our phones Windows free!"18:22
Itschuemoin moin18:22
wblazeI wouldn't mind a Windows phone assuming it worked for what I needed.18:22
kerioMANGO! MANGO! YEAH!18:23
wblazeOn top of that, the UIs were developed to be the same for the WP7 and Meego variants.18:24
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SpeedEvilI have one windows device I'm happy with.18:33
SpeedEvil'just works'18:33
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DocScrutinizer51could you post the URL for wget c+p plese18:37
peterbjornxis there anyone here who knows from what script xinit/startx/Xorg gets executed18:40
peterbjornxcouldnt find it in rc2.d and rcS18:40
SpeedEvilpeterbjornx: Look in /etc/rc.d/ or something18:40
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SpeedEvil /etc/X11/ ?18:42
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: need charge script! buried alive under luggage in a car, wih N900 on generic charger18:42
peterbjornxthats called by the X initialization script18:42
peterbjornxi need to know what calls that18:43
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SpeedEvil /etc/event.d/xomap?18:44
SpeedEvilThat seems to be called from the sgx driver init in the same dir18:45
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SpeedEvilyeah - which is brought up by hal18:46
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slonopotamusain't hal dead?18:47
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: could you link me to shadowjks chargescript?18:49
SpeedEvilI don't have a copy around, and don't remember where I got it.18:49
SpeedEvilI have one that oesn't really work well - I need to reboot after or BME sulks18:49
DocScrutinizer51I need 100+ mA for the next 5h18:50
SpeedEvilseems to have turned up in my awesomebar18:50
SpeedEvilWhich looks right18:50
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edheldilSpeedEvil:  what does it do? Persuades n900 to charge with fewer amps?19:04
peterbjornxback, isnt that bad practice, starting anything outside of init during boot?19:08
keriolol bad practice19:09
infoboti heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot319:09
DocScrutinizer51yoh. NAC rising, thanks19:10
peterbjornxwhy isnt it possible to create a different partition mapping where /usr AND /opt reside on the eMCC19:11
lardmananyone know how to compare arbitrary QVariants to see if their contents are identical?19:11
lardmanI could do a to*() operation, but some of those will only convert certain payload types19:12
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villagerpeterbjornx: supposedly some stuff needed during boot is in /usr19:13
villagerpeterbjornx: i.e., the "systeminit is FUBAR" part19:13
peterbjornxok, more bad design, but shouldnt it be possible to mount the eMMC before it loads init, like multiboot can do?19:13
villagernot with the standard kernel I think19:15
keriopeterbjornx: the mr hands video needs sound19:15
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villagermaybe the powerkernel could be made to do it19:15
kerioyay for pulseaudio in the early stages of the boot19:15
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peterbjornxmultiboot is able to boot from sd cards and emmc with standard kernel isnt it19:16
villagerpeterbjornx: well that's different, that's still booting with a single rootfs19:17
peterbjornx*anyhow i use a custom kernel with framebuffer console for debugging so if i try to do this ( i know its risky) i can see what goes wrong19:17
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peterbjornxyes but afaik mount and the FS modules dont use /usr19:18
villagerpeterbjornx: and neither does init... under FHS, init starts the boot scripts, which then mounts /usr... it is not mounted before init... you were talking about mounting it before init19:19
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peterbjornxi know, that way any component reliant on /usr would have it mounted19:21
peterbjornxwhat i mean is creating a preinit script that loads the necessary modules and mounts /usr , and then starts init19:22
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SpeedEviledheldil: more amps, under some circumstances.19:22
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villagerthat would have to be an initrd... which, as mentioned, could probably be put into the powerkernel19:23
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peterbjornxno it wont have to be, as (afaik) the busybox utils and the kernel dont require /usr19:24
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villagerwhile the bootscripts started by init do...19:27
villagerI'm sure more people would have repartitioned it like that if it was easy19:28
peterbjornxas a test ill try to mount /home before init even gets executed19:29
DocScrutinizer51good luck19:30
peterbjornxas the very same script already mounts /sys , /proc, /tmp and sets up /dev19:31
peterbjornxso loading ext2 module and mounting /home shouldnt be very hard19:32
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villagerthat's started by init, isn't it?19:34
peterbjornxit isnt19:34
peterbjornxit starts init19:35
peterbjornxbtw why is there nothing on this in the wiki: vanilla preinit allows root device choosing from serial console19:35
peterbjornxits the script that shows the R&D info on the NOKIA screen19:36
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Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, what happened to infobot?20:29
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DocScrutinizer51rebooted 23m ago20:30
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infobotOkay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer51)20:30
infobot- Uptime for infobot -20:30
infobotNow: 24m 7s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux20:30
infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201020:30
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200920:30
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200920:30
Venemo_N950since it didn't respond to my ping, I thought I was disconnected20:31
DocScrutinizer51administrating an ircbot via N900 while buried under lugage  in a car on its way to chaos champ, damn I feel like a freak20:32
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GAN900DocScrutinizer51, could be worse.20:34
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jacekowski 19:36:00 up 105 days,  3:47,  8 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.22, 0.2320:36
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ruskie <-- hmm21:06
Itschuecan somebody help me21:08
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Itschuehello anyone here ?21:12
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DocScrutinizer51no I'm traveling21:33
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Itschuei have no  zoomfunction in angrybirds season i installed a keymap file but i didnt work can anyone help me21:37
mihuHi. I want to add a new key using "about: config" in the browser on my N900, but I don't know how. I can use the search bar at the top to locate existing keys, but how do I add a new key? Any idea?21:39
DocScrutinizer51I seem to recall that doesnt work21:41
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, how long is the damn car ride?21:42
DocScrutinizer51some 6h21:44
DocScrutinizer512..3 left21:44
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, damn, long drive.21:45
Itschuecan anyone help me21:45
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mihuHm, ok, what I really want is to fake my user agent, because some of my favourite sites recognize me now as a mobile user and present their stupid mobile layout to me. Any hints how to fake the user agent?21:47
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NIN101about:config :P or download some plugin...21:51
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!21:57
Itschuenobody here?21:58
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mihuNIN101: As I already said, I cannot add a new string to "about: config", this sucks. And I found "HideUserAgent 0.3.7", but it has a package karma of -6 and is in extras-testing only.22:00
NIN101well I just found out how to do it22:02
NIN101I mean, editing in about:config22:02
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NIN101with the stylus, tap long enough on an entry...22:03
NIN101doesn't seam to be easy.22:06
NIN101oh, it is also possible with the return key on the keyboard.22:07
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mihuNIN101: Ah, ok, cool, works for me now as well. Now I tried to change "general.useragent.vendor" do something else. How do I save these settings? If I just close the browser window and start "about: config" again, then the old value is back again.22:09
NIN101hmm, you are right22:10
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mihuNIN101: I'm currently browsing and this issue has come up over and over again. Some say that the problem is that some background processes keep MicroB running and erasing the change.22:16
NIN101I think it's "browserd"22:16
villagermihu: I suppose you could try to always leave at least one browser window open to keep the browser process from shutting down22:16
villagerworks for me22:16
NIN101heh don't kill browserd22:17
villagerif it shuts down, then I guess it loads default settings when it restarts22:17
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villagerhmm... wonder where those default settings are loaded from...22:18
NIN101or something22:19
mihuNIN101: That's true. I tried to manually change these as well, but they are overwritten as well. And I did not find a way to stop the browser from relaunching. There is an init script /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon.init but a "stop" there does not work. Heck, I'm familiar administrating my system on the command line, but my N900 just won't let me.22:20
Itschue  is this realy a good thing?22:20
NIN101there is a way, I'm sure.22:20
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GAN900DocScrutinizer51, let us know if you see pupnik there.22:22
NIN101mihu: hmm, not true. Just changed the file and rebootet. Before starting the browser, my string was there, after that, they have been overwritten again.22:22
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DocScrutinizer51I dunno how he looks22:23
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NIN101mihu: /usr/lib/microb-engine/defaults/pref22:26
NIN101looks interesting22:26
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mihuNIN101: You made my day. Thank you very much. I just added "pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv: Gecko/20110628 Ubuntu/10.10 (maverick) Firefox/3.6.18");" to the end of the file, did a "killall -9 browser browserd" and loaded the page again. I checked with and it shows the correct string and now I'm not redirected to the mobile version of the site any more22:35
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NIN101mihu: yw22:40
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Dantonicquestion... what kernel does the cssu maemo5 include?  I've been trying to use mobile hotspot, and I guess I need the power kernel, but I don't want it to break anything in regards to the current cssu maemo 5 I have installed23:18
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cehtehcssu doesnt come with kernel23:18
vi__is there a dbus call to set the operator name23:19
vi__I mean23:19
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vi__where can I find the dbus call to set the operator name?23:19
GAN900Ending in about two hours.23:19
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Dantoniccetheh so, if I install power kernel would it screw anything up?23:21
Dantonicalso, I'm able to overclock, I thought u had to have a special kernel to be able to do that...23:22
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cehtehyou can use cssu with power kernel23:22
cehtehand power kernel allows you to fry your device too23:22
vi__Dantonic: open xterm and type:23:22
vi__uname -r23:23
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vi__then you cannot overclock23:24
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Dantonicoh... strange, thought I had the power kernel... I recently installed nitdroid, I wonder if it installed a different kernel23:25
Dantonicwould it mess up the dual boot if I change the kernel?23:26
cehtehsee topic :P23:26
vi__I dunno23:26
vi__never bothered with that android pish23:26
vi__you would need to install the multiboot package for the kernel you are installing23:26
Dantonicthe only reason I installed is so I can watch justintv cause it needs flash 1023:26
vi__or something23:26
vi__I don't even own a TV23:27
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vi__You could always open a topic asking for help on TMO23:28
vi__be warned though, read and do your research first23:28
vi__or they'll rip you a new one23:29
Dantonicwell what's the worst that could happen if I re install power kernel?  I wouldn't be able to boot into nitdroid?23:29
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vi__possibly yes23:29
Dantonicbut maemo will be fine right?23:29
vi__id imagine so23:29
Dantonicbtw I dislike android too....23:30
Dantonicbenn messing with it for a few days now...23:30
vi__even if you fuck it up, you can always re-flash maemo kernel23:30
vi__to fix everything23:30
vi__android blows23:30
vi__the sooner ppl realise this the better23:30
DantonicI feel like I have no cpontrol over the os23:30
Dantonicu can't close apps?23:31
vi__just 'background' them, it is the same thing23:31
DantonicI read on the internet: oh android does it for you, just don't worry about it...23:31
DantonicI'm like huh?23:31
vi__well it does kinda23:31
DantonicI wanna close the goddamn app23:31
Dantonicyeah idk23:32
Dantonicmade me realize how good maemo is... I hadn't tried android before23:32
Dantonicbut always thought it might be better23:32
Dantonictoo bad we can't get flash23:32
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vi__well, some dont really care for flash23:33
Dantonicyeah but I do23:33
vi__android is a nice simple OS for nice simple people.23:33
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Dantonicyeah I sure see that23:33
vi__like symbian but without balls23:33
Dantonickk ty23:35
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