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| ErwinJunge | javispedro, what is a good value to set for bbp? Just leave it at 0 and let it decide for itself? | 01:16 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | 16 | 01:17 |
| ErwinJunge | Ok, set. I also seem to be losing mouse focus, any idea where to look for that? :) Is SDL_WM_GrabInput the only thing that influences that? | 01:19 |
| ErwinJunge | Neglect that last message | 01:19 |
| javispedro | thank god :) | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 01:19 |
| javispedro | cause I was going to say you were overcomplicating stuff. | 01:19 |
| ErwinJunge | I didn't lose mousefocus, my framerate just dropped to far below 1 | 01:19 |
| ErwinJunge | So it seemed to do nothing, while it was just doing it extremely late | 01:20 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders to get cpu load meter to indicator LED rather than CPU load applet | 01:21 | |
| ErwinJunge | What do you mean overcomplicating? Should I not be using SDL_WM_GrabInput? | 01:21 |
| javispedro | you shouldn't | 01:21 |
| ErwinJunge | It automatically grabs? | 01:21 |
| javispedro | why do you need to grab? | 01:21 |
| javispedro | ah, maybe you're not getting key events and wondering why? | 01:22 |
| ErwinJunge | Good point, I guess that only applies in a windowed situation | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: maybe because some other process grabbed input? ;-P | 01:23 |
| ErwinJunge | Well, yeah, that was the original reason for me messing with the setting of SDL_WM_GrabInput (it was already in the code and set to SDL_GRAB_OFF) | 01:23 |
| ErwinJunge | Setting it to SDL_GRAB_ON fixed my problem | 01:23 |
| javispedro | ErwinJunge: best #ifdef out all of those | 01:23 |
| ErwinJunge | But since then I switched to SDL_FULLSCREEN, so I guess that stuff doesn't apply anymore? | 01:23 |
| javispedro | ErwinJunge: try to also ifdef out calls to SDL_WM_SetIcon, that's a Maemo bug. | 01:24 |
| javispedro | *Maemo SDL bug | 01:24 |
| javispedro | ErwinJunge: it does apply, but I really think you do not want to grab the mouse/keyboard | 01:24 |
| ErwinJunge | Ah, thanks for the heads up :) I already ifdef'd those out, basically thinking "I don't care about an icon". | 01:25 |
| ErwinJunge | All my text just turned to blocks. Does that indicate a video memory problem? I.e. I don't have enough video memory? | 01:25 |
| javispedro | no | 01:25 |
| javispedro | it indicates you broke something :) | 01:26 |
| ErwinJunge | Ok, just checking. I'm trying to run a pretty intensive game, so running out of memory is a serious possibility. | 01:26 |
| javispedro | you mentioned it runs on iphone | 01:26 |
| ErwinJunge | The engine runs on iphone | 01:26 |
| javispedro | if it does, no way you're running out of memory on a N900. | 01:26 |
| javispedro | ah. | 01:26 |
| ErwinJunge | I'm porting the engine | 01:26 |
| ErwinJunge | The game that's using the engine however barely gets 20 fps on my netbook :) | 01:27 |
| ErwinJunge | darkplaces is an enhanced Quake1 engine. See http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/ | 01:28 |
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| ErwinJunge | Any indicition what I broke btw? | 01:28 |
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| javispedro | my 8-ball is powerful but not that much :) | 01:29 |
| javispedro | read dmesg | 01:29 |
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| ErwinJunge | HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered | 01:31 |
| ErwinJunge | Sounds serious | 01:31 |
| javispedro | does it appear many times or just once? | 01:31 |
| ErwinJunge | Twice, but it might be old actually (been having a lot of segfaults trying to get it to work at all) | 01:32 |
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| ErwinJunge | Doing a quick reboot just to be sure | 01:34 |
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| ErwinJunge | javispedro, Reboot done, problem still there, no dmesg output | 01:44 |
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| ErwinJunge | javispedro, Thanks for all your help today, and for making SDL_gles in the first place. I'm off to bed, I'll figure this out tomorrow :) Byebye | 01:45 |
| javispedro | cya | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anybody joining chaoscamp @ Finowfurth? | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | serious? ha, got it many a times | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | -h | 01:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The Council July update thread is HOW LONG?! | 03:10 |
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| * GeneralAntilles clearly has far too much to catch up on from this week to actually be able to summarize it well. | 03:15 | |
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| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: I'll help: "abill_uk has continued his rambling on the Council thread: blabla you all suck, dadada Nokia needs to opensource Maemo yaddayadda and the Council is a global conspiracy for a new world order baaaabaaaabaaa I will use my soldier skills to shut you up!" | 03:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, well, there's SD69's ranting | 03:26 |
| javispedro | *solder ;) | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the ForMeeGo shtick | 03:26 |
| javispedro | ah yeah, that is rather large. | 03:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | I imagine ranting about meego.com and apps? | 03:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-August/028537.html | 03:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | About abandoning maemo.org | 03:37 |
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| dunelj_ | .hi, anybody with extra-devel enabled find it become slow after any media player crashed? | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 03:40 |
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| javispedro | I see that recent vBulletin now has options for both thanking and "liking" posts | 03:55 |
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| * javispedro likes the idea | 03:55 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | WUT?? I *need* hate-button | 03:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: pffff, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-August/028528.html | 03:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, recent firmware would be really nice. | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | : http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 04:02 |
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| Termana | good morning | 05:05 |
| BluesLee | good morning | 05:05 |
| BluesLee | i am missing the MADDE target "fremantle" in Nokia's Qt SDK 2.2.1 ?! | 05:06 |
| BluesLee | okay, found mad-admin | 05:10 |
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| ebzzry | Is it odd that when I try to install mplayer, apt tells me that it's going to remove the items at http://pastebin.com/jnvnTEyF | 05:34 |
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| ebzzry | Is it normal? | 05:41 |
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| lapingay | Bonjour, je veux t'invitez de visiter notre tchat, entre dans www.minet.eu.tf, merci | 06:08 |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: Isn't it possible to circumvent this ridiculous TC right from the start? As in, flash a firmware where it's not there? Of course this is of little use for writing/deploying apps to everyone but people with a clue could profit. | 10:27 |
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| villager | would this firmware be able to communicate with the gsm modem? | 10:30 |
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| villager | (from what I understood, that's the problem) | 10:31 |
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| robbiethe1st | May be a better idea just to go ahead and upgrade back to the N900 <_< | 10:33 |
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| peterbjornx | hello | 10:49 |
| peterbjornx | just a quick question, what repository is libhildon1 in? | 10:50 |
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| peterbjornx | just a quick question, what repository is libhildon1 in? | 10:51 |
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| Shapeshifter | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1065318#post1065318 oh goodness :| | 10:52 |
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| peterbjornx | no, just no , that should be considered a crime | 10:54 |
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| peterbjornx | mutilating a n900 with apple crap | 10:54 |
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| peterbjornx | but, in what repo are QT and hildon libs | 10:56 |
| peterbjornx | as i just reflashed my n900 and cant install anything via fast app manager, they all break on pretty standard dependencies | 10:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | peterbjornx: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libhildon1/ | 11:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | peterbjornx: it should have come with your image. | 11:01 |
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| peterbjornx | ok, looks like it really is a config problem of fast app manager then | 11:04 |
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| pavii | What is the easiest way to run a QML file on maemo or meeoce or even a debian desktop without downloading large chunks of files for SDK | 11:22 |
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| dm8tbr | pavii: qmlviewer but it has it's limitations | 11:24 |
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| pavii | dm8tbr: qml viewer on phoone? | 11:25 |
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| dm8tbr | should be there, yes, but it has caveats | 11:26 |
| pavii | yeah got it | 11:26 |
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| pavii | qt4-declerative-qmlviewer | 11:27 |
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| peterbjornx | i just had a great idea: | 11:59 |
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| peterbjornx | modifiying multiboot to mount images aswell | 11:59 |
| peterbjornx | so we can run chroot env's without having maemo running | 11:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err uhum | 12:22 |
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| peterbjornx | is there any prebuilt meego image for n900? | 13:23 |
| peterbjornx | that has the bme from the original firmware included? | 13:23 |
| Venemo | peterbjornx, I think that it has a newer bme | 13:24 |
| Venemo | peterbjornx, but ask in #meego | 13:25 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: "Moody's Says Future U.S. Downgrade Possible" | 14:23 |
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| MohammadAG | anyone know of a C app that listens to MCE signals? | 15:09 |
| RST38h | MohammadAG: Check fMSX source code | 15:17 |
| RST38h | MohammadAG: EMULib/Maemo/LibMaemo.cpp | 15:17 |
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| cehteh | MohammadAG: my xchat plugin emits some mce signals, but no listen | 15:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how's listening to mce signals different to generic dbus signal listening to arbitrary signals? | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | main problem as always: now your signal, and know what exactly is the semantic | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Know* | 15:49 |
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| args[0] | is there any good device that runs Maemo other than N900? (better dimensions) | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | n810, n800, n770 | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | -n | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | However, that's probably not what you meat. | 15:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | true | 15:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | The n950 runs maemo - thogh you can't get it, and the n9 will too, an is due to e released in a month or two | 15:55 |
| args[0] | just checked them on google.. they resemble the n900 | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | n9 is keyboardless and slimmer | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | That may appeal to some | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | N800 also kbd-less | 15:56 |
| psycho_oreos | n9 runs on meego :p | 15:56 |
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| RST38h | it is maemo6 | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Also it is capacitive, and thus caters to those with ohmophobia. | 15:56 |
| RST38h | stop fooling yourself | 15:56 |
| RST38h | Speed: That is how it is called nowadays? | 15:57 |
| psycho_oreos | 770, N800, N810 runs maemo | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | harmattan = maemo | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | IMO | 15:57 |
| ErwinJunge_ | SpeedEvil, lol @ ohmophobia :) | 15:57 |
| args[0] | do Maemo devices come with a terminal app built in? | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | harmattan is a class of its own | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | neither proper maemo nor true meego | 15:58 |
| psycho_oreos | pretty sure most do, don't know about N950 because I don't have one | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | n950 does | 15:58 |
| ErwinJunge_ | args[0], If you want a terminal app. wouldn't a physical kbd be very convenient? What would mean N900 or nothing. | 15:58 |
| ErwinJunge_ | s/What/That/ | 15:59 |
| infobot | ErwinJunge_ meant: args[0], If you want a terminal app. wouldn't a physical kbd be very convenient? That would mean N900 or nothing. | 15:59 |
| args[0] | i'll be buying the device just cause of it running *nix and terminal | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | N950 terminal afaik doesn't even open more than one instance | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 15:59 |
| args[0] | so n900? its cheaper now too | 16:00 |
| psycho_oreos | you do also realise that maemo platform is strictly limited to Nokia Internet Tablets. Meaning only Nokia Internet Tablets are capable of running maemo. No other brands have maemo support | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis at the moment is a moderate issue for those wantin to do 'normal unixy' stuff. | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis is the secyrity platform - whos impact on the final release of the n9 is somewhat unclear. | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh? unclear? | 16:01 |
| ErwinJunge_ | args[0], I'd recommend N900 in that case. It's the main reason I got one :) | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | If, as seems possible, you can replace the kernel, and aegis goes away, and it all works, then that's fine. | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet a barrel of vodka aegis on N9 will be same crap as on N950 | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | (Nobody as far as I'm aware has tested this yet) | 16:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | heh N900, the last of the defunct series with phone functionality and a proper hardware keyboard. Plus that its publicly available unlike the N950 | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | If replacing the kernel means youhave to replace large slices of user-essential software, then it may have issues. | 16:02 |
| radiofree | does the n950 have aegis-su? | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | it *will* be like that | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | accounts are managed inside aegis, cellmo *is* an account | 16:03 |
| args[0] | ErwinJunge_: yeah, i'll keep my current phone and use N900 just for work (wifi) | 16:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Anyway - waiting will resolve all of the questions. | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | radiofree: yes | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're concerned about it, don't pre-order. (as a user) | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | radiofree: but this won't change anything, if that's what you asked for | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | radiofree: actually the purpose of aegis-su is largely unclear (to me at least) | 16:05 |
| radiofree | DocScrutinizer: no, I don't expect it to, but at least in there is that to get around a couple of aegis' neurosis while it's there | 16:05 |
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| radiofree | sorry that didn't make sense.. | 16:06 |
| radiofree | at least it's there to get around SOME of aegis' over protectiveness :) | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oops sorry, I mixed aegis-su with aegis-exec | 16:07 |
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| Trewas | is there already something similar to n900's maemo extras repository for n9(50)? it would be nice to see if there is some software actually available before they start selling n9 | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ...and devel-su or sth like that | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: packrat is the thing you want | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway N900 >>$* | 16:11 |
| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, as do the N900, N950 and N9. | 16:12 |
| Trewas | DocScrutinizer: thanks, doesn't seem to be so centralised yet as maemo extras(-devel) | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | my 2 cent: those who would like the N9 already got an android or iPhone | 16:12 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, disagree. | 16:13 |
| psycho_oreos | GAN900, what is that supposed to mean? N900 is publicly available with proper keyboard. N950 isn't publicly available. N9 doesn't have proper keyboard | 16:13 |
| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, er, also run Maemo. | 16:13 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, don't let the trees catch you up so much you can't see the forest. ;) | 16:14 |
| psycho_oreos | GAN900, N950 doesn't count ;p it was only made available to maybe 1000 people. and N9 as stated on nokia's website as running meego 1.2 | 16:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: (centralized) seems it never will be | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | rzr's repo has potential to become N9's maemo-devel | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | but for me N9 is completely uninteresting, for 3 reasons: No hw kbd, capacitive touchscreen, OS is locked up | 16:18 |
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| psycho_oreos | I'm sure hackers will get their grubby hands into the device and root it, like what they did with iphone, android, wp7, etc | 16:19 |
| twoaday | bleh, for some reason my n900 is now only showing a black display, reboot doesnt fix it. anyone got a idea? | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: you didn't understand what TC is | 16:20 |
| twoaday | and no it didnt fall down or anything | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, Qt Mobility fails to recompile for me | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: there's no way to "root" aegis | 16:20 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, nope I've missed that part | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG | linking libqtgeoservices_nokia.so | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | ../../../build/Debug/qtgeoservices_nokia/moc_qgeotiledmapdata_nokia.o:(.data.rel.ro+0x70): undefined reference to `QtMobility::QGeoTiledMapData::setConnectivityMode(QtMobility::QGraphicsGeoMap::ConnectivityMode)' | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status | 16:21 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, there has to be a way to bypass it and then to be able to do various stuff with it | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's almost like suggesting hackers get their hands into windows to make linux run on it | 16:21 |
| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan. | 16:22 |
| psycho_oreos | I wouldn't doubt the impossible, no system/setup is perfect | 16:22 |
| psycho_oreos | GAN900, and? meego != maemo | 16:22 |
| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, politically it's Maemo, technically it's Maemo. | 16:22 |
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| GAN900 | For purposes of understanding its how and why, it's Maemo. | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: it is not 'locked', it simply uses methods for essential stuff that you don't like to be used. You can get rid of the methods but then you got rid of the closed sw that is using these methods as well | 16:23 |
| GAN900 | It's only really MeeGo in Qt use and marketing. | 16:23 |
| psycho_oreos | GAN900, on the contrary to all that the base facts of what makes meego tick in terms of package management and what not is completely different to maemo | 16:23 |
| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, right, and Harmattan uses all the Maemo stuff for that. :) | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: it's almost like suggesting "hackers will crack bme" - no won't happen, as bme is connected to other stuff that needs to get "cracked" as well | 16:24 |
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| psycho_oreos | GAN900, it was stated that Harmattan is neither proper maemo nor a true meego. It still uses the deb package management system which is unrelated to the instance of meego using the rpm package management system. So I don't know why you put harmattan in there. Furthermore harmattan was a product that only materialised for those who met certain stringent requirements from nokia in order to obtain a working hybrid copy | 16:27 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, *shrugs* not that I know what the future holds but I'm sure if there's enough interest there maybe some progress into reverse engineering | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you CAN NOT RE public key chain of trust architectures | 16:29 |
| psycho_oreos | i.e. TPM? | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you can get a OS that's not using TPM but that's not harmattan then | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | while a fremantle with PowerKernel arguably still is a fremantle | 16:32 |
| psycho_oreos | well for now it would seem that would be the case. Mind you TPM deployment on more critical components is only recent, but at the end of the day the very same tool was only made by human | 16:32 |
| Trewas | what does aegis currently prevent from doing with n950? AFAIU it doesn't prevent from running applications from random/non-approved sources or those apps using any of the available functionality (network, phone calls, etc)? | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it does | 16:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Trewas: Anything that touches the kernel, for example. | 16:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you want to add a NAT module to iptables, or USB host, or ... | 16:34 |
| RST38h | http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/029/b/9/emacs_user_at_work_by_earlcolour-d38aj2x.jpg | 16:34 |
| Trewas | SpeedEvil: well ok, I was thinking more on the userland side | 16:34 |
| RST38h | Something like that, yes | 16:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Trewas: Userland apps that use those. | 16:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Trewas: wireless hotspot, VPN'y stuff, USB mount drives/printers | 16:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is also the remaining issue of how closed will final n9 image be as-shipped. | 16:36 |
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| Trewas | SpeedEvil: I get it that nothing needing kernel changes can be made (without help from nokia), but I never needed those in n900 either :) | 16:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | At the current state of the n950, most developers will not be affected much. | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: well, if you can live without USB-hostmode, without mobile hotspot, without simple brightness applet, without any of those 2G/3G handlers/optimizers... then yes you don't need anything of that | 16:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Other than fining it more annoying to test and package apps. | 16:40 |
| SpeedEvil | The more the app changes the normal way the phone works, the more likelyhood is it's not going to be possible without attempting to defeat aegis in some manner. | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | custom ringtones | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Does this make the phone useless - no, of course not. | 16:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | It may greatly reduce the utility for some though. | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Even without philosophical discussions about openness. | 16:42 |
| Trewas | fwiw apparently joikuspot will be preinstalled in n9, so mobile hotspot will work | 16:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err per-contact-ringtones | 16:42 |
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| jaska | well, if its going to stay this way i might solace myself with the fact that it would have been useless to me (n950 that is) | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: nope | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | this doesn't mean mobile hotspot can work | 16:43 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, ping me when you're on | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yoghurt got some special permission of Nokia to tamper with system stuff. None of even the developers got that permission | 16:43 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, custom ringtones are built in | 16:44 |
| Trewas | DocScrutinizer: ok, but even one working (assuming it is not badly crippled) mobile hotspot app is better than none | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: it's now about time for "err, per-user-ringtones might be not" | 16:45 |
| twoaday | sigh, i still cant fix my n900's screen. went black for no reason after using the music player for a while, seems to register with my pc tho, holding down u while booting (to see if the display can actually display something) doesnt work too | 16:46 |
| twoaday | any ideas? | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: what a silly rationale is that? | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, per user ringtones are implemented | 16:46 |
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| Trewas | DocScrutinizer: a mostly non-developer rationale :) | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG | just edit a contact in contacts, scroll down to ringtone | 16:47 |
| MohammadAG | there's also groups in contacts with a ringtone for the group | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: well, that's same rationale Trewas just used. It doesn't matter if sth is "built in" | 16:47 |
| twoaday | also charging works, according to the led, no change to the display when charging tho | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | the question is if devels could do it themselves | 16:47 |
| twoaday | also when the keyboard is slit out, that funny displaylock button/slider thingie does lite/blacken the keyboard | 16:49 |
| twoaday | -.- | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: we were not evaluating usability of harmattan prototype here, we discussed the general impact of TPM on a system's tweakability | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | twoaday: try AV to TV | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | twoaday: probably flat ribbon connector to screen broken | 16:51 |
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| twoaday | DocScrutinizer: sigh, i hope its only that. and i dont have a chance to see if its the display connector for now | 16:53 |
| twoaday | in any case its a trip to the local nokia store -.- | 16:53 |
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| twoaday | besides, i only need a working phone till i can get myhands on a n9 xD | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | system tweakability was moved to /dev/null, they'll handle it there DocScrutinizer | 16:54 |
| RST38h | I am sure sooner or later there will be acustom kernel | 16:55 |
| MohammadAG | we're not arguing there | 16:55 |
| MohammadAG | I'm pretty sure once that happens most apps will break | 16:55 |
| RST38h | why? | 16:56 |
| SpeedEvil | twoaday: they may warranty replace your n900 with a n8 - I'm unsure of the level of servicing done. | 16:56 |
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| twoaday | SpeedEvil: what the hell do i want with a n8? | 16:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Ebay it, and buy a n900? | 16:57 |
| mase76 | hi! | 16:57 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, that is far from ideal. | 16:57 |
| Tronic | SpeedEvil: Actually nowadays they replace with E7. | 16:57 |
| * twoaday hpes it will not come tho this | 16:57 | |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 16:57 |
| twoaday | hopes* | 16:57 |
| mase76 | anybody known, if there are any source-packages of the maemo system components? i need clutter. | 16:57 |
| twoaday | so a shitty cable breaks and instead of a fix within the 1 year warrenty time i got on it | 16:58 |
| Tronic | SpeedEvil: I bet that too many people were rejecting those N8 replacements. | 16:58 |
| twoaday | they will give me a shitty e7 or n8? | 16:58 |
| RST38h | e7 is actually relatively nice | 16:58 |
| Tronic | E7 you can at least ebay (for 300 € or so) and still have some profit after you buy a used N900. | 16:58 |
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| Tronic | People try to sell E7s for 400 € but no-one is buying. | 16:58 |
| cehteh | they prolly wait with the n9 release until each and every n900 warranty expired :P | 16:59 |
| twoaday | or maybe i should just forget about it,, get a shitty 50 euro phone and then wait for the n9 release xD | 16:59 |
| Tronic | The retail price is around 540 € and I suppose that only companies buy them (and companies won't buy from ebay). | 16:59 |
| cehteh | n9 wont be better than the n900 anyways | 17:00 |
| twoaday | true but it wont have a bloody broken display for no reason | 17:00 |
| Tronic | It is in many ways better, even if also worse in a few ways. | 17:00 |
| twoaday | at least i hope so | 17:00 |
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| Tronic | If I had to choose, I'd take an N9. | 17:00 |
| twoaday | the only thing i would honestly miss on the n9 is the lack of the radio transmitter | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG | Harmattan is actually quite nice | 17:01 |
| MohammadAG | drop the TPM and it's the perfect replacement | 17:01 |
| Tronic | N900 still has far better selection of software but that is quickly changing. N9's benefits include a much better browser, enough RAM, etc. | 17:01 |
| kerio | KEYBOARD | 17:01 |
| Tronic | OSD keyboard is quite fine on these devices, actually. | 17:01 |
| twoaday | the keyboard in my case is hardly used xD | 17:01 |
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| Tronic | Lacks arrow keys and uses valuable screen space but other than that I can tolerate it. | 17:02 |
| Tronic | twoaday: But you get proper BT, so maybe you can use that instead of FMTX? | 17:03 |
| Tronic | (buy a new car/radio, etc) | 17:04 |
| twoaday | Tronic: possible, i wonder if there is a change in battery life | 17:04 |
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| Tronic | In a car you have a charger in any case, right? Both FMTX and BT are quite low power, so I don't think it really matters. | 17:04 |
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| kerio | >wtfamireading.jpg | 17:06 |
| kerio | i'll never touch a device without a physical keyboard with a 10 foot pole | 17:06 |
| twoaday | kerio: me has the black n900 screen problem, now discussion replacement phones xD | 17:07 |
| kerio | it's easy | 17:07 |
| kerio | another n900 | 17:07 |
| twoaday | kerio: i am done with n900's emotionally by now | 17:07 |
| twoaday | first n900 - broken usb connector - replacement...-now blackdisplay for no reason | 17:08 |
| Tronic | I blame Elop for not releasing an upgraded "N900" a long time ago. | 17:08 |
| twoaday | and no way to fix it from what i see | 17:08 |
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| twoaday | Tronic: projection isnt my thing. from the feel by now the n900 is a shitty built way too experimental thing | 17:08 |
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| Tronic | There is a huge market for such device, even if the software wasn't changed at all. Just new and better hardware and most of the current N900 users would be queueing in front of the stores for it. | 17:10 |
| twoaday | true | 17:11 |
| twoaday | most doent include me at the moment ;) | 17:11 |
| nid0 | yes but theres the problem, even if all current n900 users go and buy a replacement to it, commercially it's still pretty much a miserable failure for nokia, they dont want to be releasing a phone that racks up a few hundred thousand sales | 17:11 |
| Tronic | But Elop hasn't managed to release a single new product worth a mention during his term. | 17:11 |
| nid0 | the current n900 user base isnt "huge" by any stretch of the word | 17:11 |
| RST38h | As I said, E7 is nice | 17:11 |
| Tronic | No wonder Nokia is quickly losing market share because you cannot keep riding on N8/E7 forever. | 17:11 |
| RST38h | So is N8. Both are pretty usable. | 17:11 |
| RST38h | But I doubt lack of product is what brought Nokia share down | 17:12 |
| Tronic | RST38h: I disagree about usability/niceness, but the markets liked them and I blame Elop for not releasing more Symbian phones that would have kept the company alive. | 17:12 |
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| RST38h | Tronic: As a smart phone, both are very decent examples | 17:12 |
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| RST38h | Tronic: They are not Maemo fo course, but let us be objective here | 17:13 |
| Tronic | (and obviously I blame him for those burning platform statements which killed Symbian sales) | 17:13 |
| RST38h | yep | 17:13 |
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| Tronic | Yes, the platform may have sucked, but it was still selling nicely. | 17:13 |
| RST38h | His talk and his actions pretty much trashing his employers business | 17:13 |
| Tronic | RST38h: I suppose that Anna is quite OK, but whatever Symbian comes with E7 isn't. | 17:14 |
| RST38h | Tronic I have got an E7 here. It is pretty good | 17:14 |
| cehteh | windows phone is the future ... | 17:14 |
| cehteh | ... burning platform | 17:14 |
| Tronic | The UI is horribly illogical and the web browser lacks basic navigation in the regular view. | 17:14 |
| RST38h | Tronic: the only complaint I have is the touchscreen ebing too sensitive | 17:15 |
| RST38h | Tronic: UI is logical enough, you just haven't used a Symbian phone before | 17:15 |
| Tronic | My mom has an E7. I have tried using it a few times but it is always pure horror. | 17:15 |
| RST38h | Tronic: the browser does suck a bit, but we have got Opera for that | 17:15 |
| Tronic | Of course, the browser also doesn't have support for modern web technologies. | 17:15 |
| RST38h | Tronic: It is not Maemo. Pure horror it is not either though | 17:15 |
| Tronic | Compare to iPhone or Android, it is pure horror. | 17:16 |
| Tronic | Compare to WP7, maybe it is actually good. | 17:16 |
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| RST38h | basic phone, maps, music, video, camera ui are all pretty decent though | 17:16 |
| Tronic | Everything is relative :) | 17:16 |
| RST38h | camera hw sucks | 17:16 |
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| twoaday | compared to wp7 everything is good and secure xD | 17:17 |
| RST38h | dunno | 17:17 |
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| RST38h | handled wp7 at a store, did not like it, felt like a feature phone | 17:17 |
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| RST38h | with really ugly ui too | 17:17 |
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| RST38h | Not sure who and why would buy this wp7 thing when there is a plenty of very similar android hw available | 17:18 |
| nid0 | interesting comment. | 17:18 |
| lcuk | xbox gamers like the integration so I hear | 17:18 |
| nid0 | felt like a feature phone to you how, exactly? | 17:18 |
| RST38h | very limited functionality | 17:19 |
| RST38h | outside of intended few use cases | 17:19 |
| Tronic | RST38h: Except that Android looks better, works better and feels better. Not really the proper comparison for WP7. | 17:19 |
| RST38h | Tronic: exactly | 17:20 |
| Tronic | I suppose that WP7 might be compared against Blackberry or other crappy non-mainstream devices. | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | "enterprise" is a good cussword for those, I suppose | 17:20 |
| RST38h | So, you have got pretty much the same hw, at the same price, showing side by side at a store | 17:20 |
| RST38h | Why would you buy the wp7 when android is so much better? | 17:21 |
| RST38h | btw | 17:21 |
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| twoaday | bye | 17:28 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, 'cause it integrates with Xbox Live, duh. | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 17:50 |
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| ysss | sup jeorg | 17:53 |
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| * MohammadAG needs UI suggestions for a shazam-like clone | 18:01 | |
| MohammadAG | probably in QML, since it QWidgets look like crap on the N950 | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | -it | 18:02 |
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| ysss | novel ui or a practical one? | 18:04 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't matter, I just suck at UIs when there isn't a native style to follow | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | actually I'll start on the C++ backend first | 18:06 |
| ysss | the main thing about shazam-like app is that it launches quick with an easy to tap button (preferably big in the middle ;)) | 18:06 |
| Corsac | MohammadAG: what about your audio player? :) | 18:07 |
| jonne | maybe you could let it record as soon as you start it up | 18:07 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, wut is shazam | 18:08 |
| jonne | then as soon as you have a match, show the result | 18:08 |
| jonne | so there's no need to press the app icon, wait for the app to start, then press the button, ... | 18:08 |
| ysss | that should be optional (auto-record on launch), because if the user has time to prepare, they'll want to record the chorus part for easy tagging | 18:08 |
| jonne | and maybe a little refresh button | 18:08 |
| jonne | layout of the results depends on what kind of results you get (do you get album art or not?) | 18:09 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shazam_%28service%29 | 18:09 |
| jonne | the most annoying thing about maemo (i don't know if other phones are like this) is that apps start, but take a few seconds before they actually accept user input | 18:10 |
| jonne | autostart would avoid this | 18:10 |
| MohammadAG | that's actually a fake screenshot | 18:11 |
| MohammadAG | Harmattan has this, but in a better way | 18:11 |
| ysss | or you can just auto record to buffer, then (optionally) pick the start-end of sample to be sent for ID | 18:11 |
| ysss | t | 18:11 |
| ysss | hat'd be kinky | 18:11 |
| MohammadAG | you can have your own image, you can have a "Application is loading" image | 18:11 |
| jonne | yeah, well, it's annoying if you were to put a button which does nothing the first few seconds | 18:11 |
| jonne | it especially annoys me in the terminal | 18:12 |
| MohammadAG | that's what maemo doe | 18:12 |
| MohammadAG | s | 18:12 |
| jonne | what will you be using as a backend? | 18:12 |
| jonne | musicbrainz? | 18:12 |
| jonne | or does shazam allow 3rd parties? | 18:13 |
| MohammadAG | invoker --splash=image.jpg /usr/bin/app | 18:13 |
| ysss | ah, no wonder | 18:13 |
| jonne | thanks for doing the whole CSSU thing, btw, you're doing an awesome job with that | 18:13 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, doesn't sound like a complicated GUI. one big button and a text field. | 18:14 |
| MohammadAG | one big button, results on another page | 18:14 |
| MohammadAG | jonne, everyone's doing an awesome job, the CSSU would mean nothing without its contributors | 18:14 |
| ysss | and optionally, a history of your past searches | 18:15 |
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| MohammadAG | Venemo, how do I go from one page to another? | 18:18 |
| lcuk | telekenisis | 18:18 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG, you push it on top of your PageStackWindow | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | how... | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | I want something like onClicked: make this page and show it | 18:20 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, see https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/qml/harmattan/main.qml#line4 and https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/qml/harmattan/ChatPage.qml#line44 | 18:22 |
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| MohammadAG | Venemo, so you have to precreate the page? | 18:25 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG, I dunno how to progmatically create a QML element. all the ways I found to do it were hacky | 18:26 |
| MohammadAG | ResultsPage { | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | id: resultsPage | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | } | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | why does it say syntax error on ResultsPage? | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | oh nvm | 18:27 |
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| MohammadAG | nice, black window | 18:29 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, have you added ResultsPage.qml to your resources file (qrc) | 18:29 |
| MohammadAG | umm, that's kinda dumb | 18:30 |
| Venemo | why? | 18:30 |
| MohammadAG | it should add them itself | 18:30 |
| Venemo | but it doesn't. | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, the labels are overlapping, don't see why http://pastebin.com/dtwfe8A2 | 18:33 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, delete the anchors | 18:34 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, the Column {} should make them unnecessary | 18:34 |
| Venemo | also, anchors.top: parent.bottom -> doesn't make sense. | 18:34 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, either use anchors, but then don't use the Column. or use the Column, but then no need for anchors. | 18:35 |
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| MohammadAG | Venemo, shouldn't there be a back button? | 18:42 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, only if you add it | 18:42 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/qml/harmattan/SettingsPage.qml#line10 | 18:43 |
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| MohammadAG | QML isn't that bad with components | 18:54 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG ++ | 18:55 |
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| ErwinJunge_ | I'd like to profile an application running on my N900. Normally I use gprof for this. Is gprof also the way to go on Maemo? | 20:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Performance might have some interesting bits | 21:10 |
| ErwinJunge_ | DocScrutinizer, thanks | 21:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there may be more stuff in that repo as well | 21:16 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if oprofile works | 21:21 | |
| ErwinJunge_ | ShadowJK, I'm not ready to run it yet, need to set up a repeatable testcase first | 21:23 |
| ErwinJunge_ | I'm hoping it works though, since I really need some decent profiling. I've ported a game to N900, but getting only about 5 fps. Need to figure out where to focus on performance improvements. | 21:25 |
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| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/ImWatch-plus-MotoActive/ <-- hmm | 22:32 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: OT: did you ever try zrtp in twinkle? | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | once, yes | 22:39 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i have tried all sorts of things, but not able to use zrtp. is there any other client which has some voip security? | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing known here. zrtp setup is a bit tricky, but once configured it's working flawlessly. You first of all need to enable it on both ends, it's disabled by default | 22:41 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i did enable in twinkle at both ends, but wasnt successful. | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | please post on twinkle forum for help | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've not touched it since ~2 years | 22:43 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: no, worries. cheers | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | so there are others that have more recent advice and experience | 22:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | trumee: please do it *fast* as I need to set your account to "not moderated" | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm not exactly online in 6h, for several days | 22:45 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i have posted before on the twinkle yahoo forum. didt know that it was moderated for each post | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's your nick there? | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | odds are I already have set you to not_moderated | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: ^^^ | 22:50 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: ok, did another post | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | got it, you're not moderated | 22:51 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: cool | 22:51 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: sad to see csipsimple has zrtp support and we dont :( | 22:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | trumee: btw you got or noticed my patchset in files section there? I think most of it never made it to Michel's build, as it's a combined file | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | should be easy enough to cherrypick nevertheless | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fixes some size and layout issues in Qt, as well as some bugs | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus iirc brings some additional function key, for sth that had no hotkey before | 22:57 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: interesting | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | pus it makes all the settings all colored which been hated a lot ;-P | 22:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus* | 22:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I tried to mark everyday settings green and super-expert settings red iirc | 22:59 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: cool | 23:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | man, all these youtube clients are terrible | 23:11 |
| Shapeshifter | zoutube doesn't find anything, no matter what I enter. cutetube and qmltube are extremely slow, can't play fluently, and the search results are much worse than the web search, mytube is quirky and doesn't download. | 23:12 |
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| ShadowJK | youtube recently (day before yesterday) changed api and broke every client | 23:26 |
| ruskie | actually it was on the 4th | 23:27 |
| ruskie | so 4 days ago | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | something like that | 23:27 |
| ruskie | youtube-dl got fixed on the same day | 23:27 |
| ruskie | or was it on the 3rd even | 23:27 |
| ruskie | I think on the 3rd | 23:27 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if cutetube and qmltube and cutetube-qml and whatever try to play stuff composited | 23:27 | |
| ruskie | hmm yeah it was on the third... I recall having to install some firecrud addon that reads the url from the video playing | 23:29 |
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| sevvv | Alright, I'm still looking for a cheap phone with a real gps chip. | 23:52 |
| sevvv | does anyone have a recommendation? my googling is coming up with nothing. | 23:52 |
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| villager | well, as people have told you before, all gps phones have "real" gps chips... there's not much more to say | 23:54 |
| villager | supposedly it's the antennas that are bad, not the gps chips | 23:55 |
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| sevvv | everything that i've found indicates that the "real gps" chips that most nokia phones have only work with "a-gps" which only works with a subscriber gsm | 23:55 |
| villager | well, then that's incorrect | 23:56 |
| sevvv | can you take your sim card out of your phone and get a signal lock? | 23:56 |
| sevvv | i have CDMA service here... no card to remove. | 23:56 |
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| villager | should be possible if I want to wait long enough for the chip to download almanac off satellite (slow and unreliable if signal is poor) instead of over internet (fast) | 23:57 |
| sevvv | so how does a car gps without internet connectivity do it so quickly? | 23:58 |
| villager | it probably stores it in flash memory so it doesn't have to download it all the time | 23:59 |
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| sevvv | so as long as you don't move out of a certian raidus from when you shut it off last time it doesn't take 30 minutes to download the almanac | 23:59 |
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