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| vdv | is there any bookreader better than fbreader? | 00:07 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, qml | 00:24 |
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| balleyne | How can you tell what license an application in the Maemo repositories is released under? Maemo.org always just says "Free & Open Source license" without specifying which one, and I've seen it claim that falsely too... | 01:31 |
| mgedmin | the debian source package has a debian/copyright | 01:34 |
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| mgedmin | which ends up in /usr/share/doc, I think, and is promptly removed by maemo's docpurge (if I recall the name correctly) | 01:34 |
| MohammadAG | afaik Harmattan does that too | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | Hope I'm wrong, otherwise, time for man-db-n950 | 01:35 |
| mgedmin | harmattan doesn't! | 01:36 |
| mgedmin | I've /usr/share/doc/qmlcompass/copyright on my n950 | 01:36 |
| balleyne | mgedmin, MohammadAG: thanks! | 01:37 |
| Atarii | anyone here converted user partition to ext3? | 01:37 |
| MohammadAG | mgedmin, sure? I remember seeing it somewhere | 01:37 |
| MohammadAG | cat /usr/sbin/docpurge | 01:38 |
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| mgedmin | MohammadAG, well, I installed the qmlcompass deb from teh interwebs, and I've that file on my n950 | 01:39 |
| mgedmin | I do have a /usr/sbin/docpurge | 01:39 |
| mgedmin | hmm... I suppose I installed it with dpkg, thus avoiding apt's configuration | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | cat it | 01:40 |
| mgedmin | cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99-docpurge | 01:40 |
| mgedmin | so I do anything with apt, my /usr/share/doc will disappear? nice | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | just cat it | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | I'm suspecting it keeps docs but not manuals | 01:40 |
| mgedmin | nah, it rm -rf's /usr/share/{doc,man,info} | 01:41 |
| MohammadAG | so basically same as fremantle? | 01:42 |
| mgedmin | and then mkdir's and creates a README in those, proudly saying "Purged by docpurge" | 01:42 |
| mgedmin | with the same freemantle'ish "# Real hackers don't read docs." comment | 01:42 |
| mgedmin | heh, "Copyright (C) 2006 Nokia Corporation." | 01:42 |
| MohammadAG | I hope they removed # Real hackers don't read docs. | 01:42 |
| MohammadAG | oh, meh | 01:42 |
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| javispedro | Real hackers don't use aegis. | 01:50 |
| javispedro | Oh crap. | 01:50 |
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| casketizer | ytf they put docpurge on a headful device.....just nokia knows | 01:58 |
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| Hurrian | it's amazing how linux doesn't immediately free memory | 02:19 |
| Hurrian | not exactly a good idea to keep compiled C files in ram | 02:20 |
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| Hurrian | and oh, anyone saw qtlockscreen? | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | same code as enhanced-lockscreen, just a different UI :P | 02:21 |
| Hurrian | nice to see the configurable aspect though | 02:23 |
| Hurrian | MAG , how's OMP coming along? | 02:24 |
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| cehteh | Hurrian: woot? you know how allocators work? | 02:34 |
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| Hurrian | cehteh , hmm, might place the blame on SLOB | 02:36 |
| cehteh | you talk about kernel memory or userspace? | 02:36 |
| Hurrian | userspace | 02:37 |
| Hurrian | brb | 02:37 |
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| RiD | This is sad. I just noticed that my N900's earpiece is blown :( | 02:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | It can also be the connector to the board | 02:53 |
| RiD | the earpiece still works, but gives a terrible sound | 02:56 |
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| RiD | time to send it to warranty, I just hope they won't give me a N8 or E7... | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it, they almost certainly will. | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | you can get replacement bits, in principle. | 02:58 |
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| RiD | It is somewhat unfair to get another phone instead of the one you bought, but oh well.. | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.grandeshop.eu/product.asp?productid=168537 | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a fix without any soldering - you simply swap the speaker | 03:00 |
| RiD | That's very nice to hear :) | 03:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | <RiD> It is somewhat unfair to get another phone instead of the one you bought, but oh well.. | 03:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | eh nvm | 03:02 |
| nox- | n900 not in that list tho, you sure its the right speaker? | 03:02 |
| nox- | bbl | 03:02 |
| RiD | But i will try my luck with warranty first. A question (because i never sent a device to warranty) | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | nox-: I googled the n900 speaker, found the part numbebr, then googled the part number | 03:03 |
| nox- | ah ok | 03:03 |
| RiD | Will the warranty time still "drop" even when you're waiting for your device to come back/new one etc? | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Typically | 03:04 |
| casketizer | has anyone ever tried to compile BitchX for fremantle? | 03:04 |
| RiD | Well, I still have 1 year warranty, so it isn't exactly a big problem | 03:05 |
| RiD | I wish they could send me a new one, mine currently has 3 red stuck pixels, usb is getting loose (but still works fine), two brighter "spots" on the screen and a rusted backspace key :D | 03:06 |
| RiD | But even if they fix mine, it would be only the earpiece, i guess | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 03:06 |
| cehteh | RiD: whats happend to your device? still no usb fix? | 03:08 |
| RiD | If i could sell the E7 for a very good price (500€) i would be damn happy | 03:08 |
| RiD | cehteh: it's just becoming more loose...and loose... USB works fine... but I don't think it will be for long... | 03:09 |
| cehteh | yeah time to fix it | 03:09 |
| cehteh | as long its only loose but functional, changes are good that it is repairable | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: usually this doesn't mean the transducer is blown, much more frequently it just collected (usually magnetic) debris | 03:10 |
| cehteh | (at least I am sure i could repair it :P) | 03:10 |
| cehteh | dunno if nokia can (err want) | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: fix without soldering? swap the speaker? | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: isn't the earpiece transducer soldered to flat ribbon connector? | 03:11 |
| RiD | It's sad that my N900 gave me some problems | 03:11 |
| RiD | my good old 4 year N73 is still working perfectly | 03:11 |
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| RiD | it has some scratches, that's for sure | 03:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Err | 03:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought it wasn't soldered | 03:12 |
| SpeedEvil | listen to DocScrutinizer - he's taken his apart | 03:12 |
| RiD | o oh.. | 03:12 |
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| RiD | But i guess those monkeys in Nokia (who said here that some of those monkeys installed the keyboard incorrectly?) could at least fix the earpiece | 03:13 |
| MohammadAG | Would be awesome if I could replace the N900 speakers with the 5800's | 03:13 |
| RiD | after all the same piece is used in many other devices | 03:13 |
| cehteh | how can one install the keyboard incorrectly? .. | 03:14 |
| cehteh | upside down? | 03:14 |
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| * cehteh wonders :P | 03:14 | |
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| RiD | Mirrorwed! :D | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | earpiece = B1580 | 03:15 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, alphabatically | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | (p.12) | 03:15 |
| RiD | ytrewq keyboard | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | B1580 soldered to FPC (p.18) | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | RiD: http://www.4shared.com/get/Dd5CVnMw/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manua.html - earpiece - page 17 - it's removable | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 03:16 |
| cehteh | in theory everything is repairable .. with enough efforts | 03:16 |
| RiD | cehteh: in my hands: everything is destroyable | 03:17 |
| cehteh | hehe | 03:17 |
| MohammadAG | In Elop's head, everything is burning | 03:17 |
| RiD | Reminds me of the "soviet russia" jokes | 03:18 |
| RiD | SpeedEvil: encrypted pdf | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | xpdf reads it fine | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | search for l1 l2 service manual n900 | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: actually just the place where it contacts to FPC it seems. | 03:20 |
| casketizer | does anyone have the url for the Nokia virtualmachine sdk images? | 03:21 |
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| cehteh | screen | 03:21 |
| cehteh | /var/run/screen/S-root/7569.pts-2.Nokia-N900: No such file or directory | 03:21 |
| cehteh | mhm | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: anyway, odds are the speaker is just fine, only has some magnetic debris sitting on the membrane | 03:21 |
| cehteh | screen > chroot > screen .. doesnt like it :P | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | clean it and profit | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | pressurized air is just fine for that | 03:22 |
| cehteh | pressured air... but be careful not to blow it apart .. | 03:22 |
| cehteh | (brush may work too) | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, don't blow from backside | 03:22 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: So i just clean it? It's dusty that's true | 03:23 |
| cehteh | or when you blow from backside then support the frontside with plasticine or something like that | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: It's probbaly not possible to clean it without disassembling | 03:23 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: bad news, anyways I have to go. | 03:24 |
| cehteh | (and shrinkwrap not to stick the plasticine to the membrane) | 03:24 |
| cehteh | RiD: maybe send me your device :P i need spare parts | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: anyway this is NOT a reason to swap the device for a N8 | 03:25 |
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| RiD | cehteh: NO WAY! I can live with a screwed earpiece / dusty | 03:25 |
| cehteh | :P | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: I can try to find a spare part for you | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you're interested | 03:25 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: No need to waste your time :p Maybe later | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, ping me if you need help | 03:26 |
| RiD | Bye, i seriously have to go before the end of the world comes | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: note I never disassembled the screen assembly | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | didn't really feel like doing it | 03:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno why, maybe sixth sense | 03:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 03:28 |
| cehteh | haha | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | looking at /home/jr/Documents/N900/docs/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1_0.pdf page 17 tells me it was a sensible decision ;-) | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | and p.16 :-o | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | pic.:28 | 03:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 30 :-O | 03:32 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: btw you seen the n9 FCC page yet? | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL, vibra isn't even mentioned as solder component on L1L2 p.20 | 03:37 |
| cehteh | https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=139462&&typ=tjs&fcc_id=%27LJPK | 03:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, I think I did, but actually I couldn't bother less I guess | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks anyway | 03:38 |
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| cehteh | ok | 03:38 |
| cehteh | well i am not amazed either | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, N9 had exactly ONE attractive detail: FOSS. Now it turns out it's locked down to death by aegis | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | So I'd prefer an iPhone4 any day | 03:40 |
| antman8969 | you'd rather support apple? the n9 isn't THAT locked down... | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | as on iPhone I at very least know there are jailbreaks | 03:41 |
| Termana | good morning | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | while on N9 it's completely unclear if it's as bad as iPhone or worse | 03:41 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: people told me in the morning that you can disable aegis with a boot option, at least for the n950 | 03:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: that's obviously a lie | 03:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or missinfo | 03:42 |
| antman8969 | docscrutinizer, what even specifically caused the aegis hatred? (not defending) What was the breaking point? | 03:42 |
| cehteh | antman8969: you dont controll your device | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | you have no control over your device anymore | 03:42 |
| Termana | When DocScrutinizer woke up to find that there was even such a thing going to be implemented | 03:43 |
| Termana | That was the breaking point | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia decides what you may run and what not | 03:43 |
| Robot101 | antman8969: even the guys here who have worked with the protos and apparently had all of the secret builds and options to override aegis when necessary... hate it | 03:43 |
| antman8969 | I know the general / philosophical reasons, but where did you find yourself limited | 03:43 |
| * cehteh dislikes how this things get implemented | 03:43 | |
| cehteh | antman8969: you cant install a new kernel for example | 03:44 |
| cehteh | well maybe install .. but it will not boot | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | its just infuriating and stops everything from working properly. like shell scripts, or any package you rebuilt, or or or... | 03:44 |
| cehteh | so your device is an expensive brick then | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | antman8969: every single minute I work with the device I find limits trowing sticks at my legs | 03:44 |
| jonwil | I am sure that there will be a way to run MeeGo on the N9 just like on the N950 | 03:44 |
| Termana | cehteh, actually, I don't think how you have described it is *entirely* true | 03:44 |
| cehteh | meego runs on the n9 | 03:45 |
| Termana | You can run a new kernel on the N950, you just can't boot Harmattan with a new kernel | 03:45 |
| cehteh | really? .. i bet it wont even boot the kernel | 03:45 |
| Termana | at least, the on-device version and at least, as far as we know for now | 03:45 |
| cehteh | since you need a trusted chain for the boot from hardware to firmware to bootloader to kernel to applications | 03:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: cehteh: seems stskeeps is about to find out *if* it works like this or not | 03:46 |
| cehteh | when this chain is broken then you have basically a way to jailbreak it | 03:46 |
| antman8969 | hmm... it seems like everyone is just trying to tweak their harmattan installation, not really trying to deliver content to potential end users | 03:46 |
| cehteh | not that it might be easy | 03:46 |
| cehteh | but even if it can be 'jailbroken' .. thats fine for geeks and developers | 03:47 |
| cehteh | but doesnt mean you can deploy FOSS software for it | 03:47 |
| cehteh | so .. useless crap | 03:47 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: btw will the wp7 phones go the same/similar road? .. i really wonder | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: allegedly the bootloader allows to load unsigned kernels, just the TPM gets disabled then, which makes all protected apps fail to run | 03:48 |
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| antman8969 | That kind of confuses me as well... is there a reason you can't deploy your application through their channels AND then open source it on your own? cehteh | 03:48 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: how are this apps protected? encrypted? | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | protected apps may include: angry birds, yoghurtsport, skype, Nokia dialer... | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: yes, that's how TC implements this protection | 03:48 |
| Termana | antman8969, for WP7 or Harmattan? | 03:49 |
| antman8969 | harmattan | 03:49 |
| cehteh | if not, they just check keys at runtime (aka you start them up and they fail on their own) then its basically doomed | 03:49 |
| antman8969 | ultimatley meego I suppose | 03:49 |
| Termana | antman8969, you can do that fine | 03:49 |
| antman8969 | ooh, it was wp7 that was being complained about then | 03:49 |
| antman8969 | lol well who was seriously thinking about developing for microsoft? | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I dunno how aegis has implemented it, seems aegis is rather defect by design is a number of aspects | 03:49 |
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| cehteh | anyways .. i didnt buyed an iphone because i wanted official support for FOSS and not dealing with batteing the vendor of my phone trying to lock me out | 03:50 |
| jonwil | I thought the only apps that needed protection were apps that needed it for DRM (either to prevent app piracy ala angry birds or to prevent media piracy) | 03:50 |
| javispedro | note that I initially had the belief DocScrutinizer was exaggerating when enumerating all the potential closed-mode only apps, | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | no sane TC architecture would need to resort to enforcing a reflash when device gets "tainted" | 03:50 |
| javispedro | but fact is that the Nokia accout setup application uses Aegis | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | a sane TC wouldn't allow device getting tainted at all | 03:51 |
| jonwil | Is the phone dialer REALLY protrected? | 03:51 |
| jonwil | And if so, why? | 03:51 |
| javispedro | purposefully for encrypting your credentials, or something to the style. | 03:51 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: or paritition it in a secure and a untrusted areas .. really hard | 03:51 |
| cehteh | (not at runtime) | 03:51 |
| javispedro | and if you cannot setup a Nokia account -> no maps, and no drive. | 03:51 |
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| cehteh | well and a acceptable TC architecture means for me that the user has control over the keys | 03:52 |
| cehteh | not nokia | 03:52 |
| jonwil | This Aegis crap has made me even more glad I didnt bother trying to get a N950/N9 | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: this is impossible for a TC architecture | 03:53 |
| jonwil | and even more reason not to get one | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | though SpeedEvil will disagree | 03:53 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i think it could be possible .. but has to be accounted for | 03:53 |
| cehteh | (when designing it) | 03:53 |
| casketizer | is there any docu on aegis? | 03:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it would be possible if your device had a unique root cert, and you got a tool to issue sub-certs for Nokia's firmware to allow it to run | 03:54 |
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| casketizer | lol like symbian opda days | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | this tool had to run on a different platform, not on device | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Exactly | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Though it could run on device if the device does not normally have access to the key material | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | casketizer: yes, a "lot" of bloated crappy docs | 03:56 |
| casketizer | can u link me pls? | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: would open vulnerabilities for keyloggers etc pp | 03:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompl casketizer | 03:57 |
| casketizer | sure | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | 'point camera at page 0 of manual' | 03:57 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: well you could bood into a secure key management environment | 03:58 |
| cehteh | but of course no such access at normal runtime | 03:58 |
| casketizer | if it is as pathetically implemented as symbian certs it will be toast 1 month after launch | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompl casketizer http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html | 03:59 |
| cehteh | anyways useful may be defeated by useable .. which makes the whole idea pointles | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | grr | 03:59 |
| casketizer | thankiez DocScrutinizer | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://dz015.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-or-python-security-fw-and-harmattan/ | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://selinuxproject.org/~jmorris/lss2010_slides/LinuxCon_access_control_v3.pdf | 04:00 |
| casketizer | thankiez DocScrutinizer | 04:00 |
| cehteh | so .. now i have a git of the kernel on my n900 .. (wow linus does already 3.1 merges, he is in a hurry, vacation soon :P) | 04:01 |
| cehteh | is there a git for the n900 kernel somewhere? | 04:01 |
| casketizer | does this aegis have anything to do with aefis window manager? | 04:02 |
| cehteh | https://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel | 04:02 |
| cehteh | casketizer: no | 04:02 |
| casketizer | aegis* | 04:02 |
| casketizer | k | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | (it will be toast 1 month after launch) I think the concept might be semi-penproove, but the config is so complex I bet Nokia fsckd themselves at least 5 times | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem is there's no single point of permanent breakage | 04:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so if you find a vulnerability e.g in dpkg.real, they simply deploy an update and your jailbreak is toast | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and aiui they can enforce updates | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you refuse to connect to internet *ever* | 04:05 |
| casketizer | no idea i know nothing abt its implementation yet....reading | 04:05 |
| Hurrian | oh gawd, in before developer cert workaround | 04:05 |
| casketizer | but everyone said symbian s60v3 certs were unbreakable, binpda needed 6 weeks or so | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: ?? | 04:06 |
| Hurrian | was going over the IRC logs, seems that you were talking about running crap on Harmattan | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 04:06 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, can't we just replace the apt stack with a vanilla one from debian after breaking nokia's very broken apt-worker? | 04:06 |
| cehteh | the algorithms used are usually considered hard enough to be called unbreakable .. but they always get something wrong at the infrastructure level | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | a slightly OT OOB discussion, which sometimes is nice | 04:07 |
| Hurrian | no more forcing updates then | 04:07 |
| cehteh | you can just firewall nokias servers on your phone :P | 04:07 |
| Hurrian | i think nokia wouldn't bother fixing holes though | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: we're talking about harmattan and aegis. No apt-worker there | 04:07 |
| Hurrian | DERPY DERP THIS PLATFORM ISNT SECURE, DEV FOR WP7 INSTEAD | 04:07 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, so how is dpkg -i handled on harmattan? | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | SECURE != secure | 04:08 |
| Hurrian | does anything pass thru aegis? | 04:08 |
| javispedro | EVERYTHING | 04:09 |
| casketizer | doc, so basically its impossible to mess with any OS binaries or scripts :O that sux hard | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | note that all those words have different usually dimametral opposite meanings in TC context | 04:09 |
| Psi | i appologise if people have been joining here and saying this all week, but has anyone else found that there n900 no longer plays videos taken with the camera? Mine now says "media not supported" | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh! | 04:09 |
| * cehteh does something useful instead | 04:10 | |
| Psi | it happened around the time of an ogg update | 04:10 |
| casketizer | does harmattan still use busybox ? | 04:10 |
| Hurrian | Psi : apt-get update && apt-get install --reinstall ogg-support | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah those codec updates are notorious to break things :-S | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme check | 04:10 |
| Hurrian | then rebuild tracker | 04:10 |
| Psi | Hurrian: will try, thanks | 04:10 |
| Hurrian | iirc, harmattan still uses busybox | 04:10 |
| cehteh | btw how are the caches organized on the arm cpu? whats the size, associvity .. how big are cachelines? | 04:10 |
| casketizer | meh my interest in N9(50) is racing towards 0 | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | WFM | 04:11 |
| Hurrian | the fact that nokia locked down the thing is way beyond me | 04:11 |
| Hurrian | it's like they gimped the thing on purpose | 04:12 |
| casketizer | commercial app dev requested it i guess | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Psi: works for me | 04:12 |
| Hurrian | it's locked down, but it's gonna have less new apps than Symbian | 04:12 |
| Psi | DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks, must be something with my n900 then | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It was intended - back when - 3 years ago? | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | To be the future of nokia. | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | All new handsets were going to be maemo | 04:12 |
| casketizer | well i buy one when harmattan-power in in extras :P | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis was developed against that backdrop | 04:13 |
| cehteh | there where rumors they already wanted to lock down the n900 ... | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 04:13 |
| Hurrian | ah right, the N900 -- MeeGo Reference Device, and the first Nokia Linux Phone | 04:13 |
| Hurrian | first of the new line of n-series | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: casketizer yes, still messybox | 04:13 |
| casketizer | heh | 04:13 |
| Hurrian | ffwd 2 years later, still no execution | 04:13 |
| Hurrian | what. the. fuck | 04:13 |
| javispedro | bah | 04:14 |
| javispedro | the story does not start with the n900.. | 04:14 |
| Hurrian | i mean, symbian and maemo both run on ARM, with all symbians running on crappy ARMv6 chips | 04:14 |
| cehteh | yes it does in some sense | 04:14 |
| cehteh | the devices before where playthings | 04:14 |
| Hurrian | anyone at nokia heard of how apple switched from PPC to Intel? | 04:14 |
| Hurrian | emulation. | 04:15 |
| cehteh | where there commercial apps for the n800 n770 etc? | 04:15 |
| javispedro | a few | 04:15 |
| cehteh | few as in mariginally few, no big interest in locking it | 04:15 |
| javispedro | cehteh: 770! | 04:15 |
| cehteh | not a smartphone, not a competive market | 04:15 |
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| Hurrian | then again, where were the commercial apps for the n900? | 04:16 |
| javispedro | and, the same order of magnitude as commercial n900 apps. | 04:16 |
| Hurrian | aside from a few games | 04:16 |
| casketizer | is there any besides sygic for n900 ? (not counting the game demos and stellarium) | 04:16 |
| casketizer | docstogo | 04:16 |
| casketizer | yay | 04:16 |
| cehteh | well they tried (and failed .. ) to attract commercial vendors to port stuff to the n900 | 04:16 |
| cehteh | ovi-store for the n900 was a big fail | 04:16 |
| Hurrian | ovi store is a /website/ | 04:16 |
| Hurrian | a slow one at that | 04:16 |
| javispedro | because they have this tendency to kill a product by announcing something stupid months before its release | 04:17 |
| cehteh | yes .. but they wanted a apple istore competition .. which never took off the ground | 04:17 |
| Hurrian | they should've integrated everything into the device's app-manager | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, for sure unrelated to "security" | 04:17 |
| javispedro | like "we are switching to Qt" or "we are switching to WP7" or "we are switching to EFL" | 04:17 |
| casketizer | ovi was fail period | 04:17 |
| Hurrian | which is equally slow as **** | 04:17 |
| Hurrian | @javispedro , in before nokia actually switches to EFL | 04:18 |
| Hurrian | Nokiamoko. | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 04:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a never ending deja-vu | 04:18 |
| cehteh | :) | 04:19 |
| Hurrian | how about this, nokia switching to Motif | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | just we at OM *always* struggled for maximum openness | 04:20 |
| casketizer | The screen may display, for example, the following: | 04:20 |
| casketizer | # dpkg -i package_name.deb | 04:20 |
| casketizer | Aegis rejecting package_name.deb: package 'package_name' already installed from | 04:20 |
| casketizer | 'source_name' -- not replacing it from unknown origin | 04:20 |
| casketizer | :O | 04:20 |
| casketizer | no, thx | 04:20 |
| * cehteh will just get the popcorn and wait and see them failing ... with the N9 .. with WP7 ... | 04:20 | |
| javispedro | oh, palm released webos3 sources | 04:20 |
| Hurrian | casketizer, wut is dat, that is veryverybad | 04:20 |
| * javispedro goes to scavenge | 04:20 | |
| casketizer | hurrian from aegis faq | 04:21 |
| cehteh | javispedro: HP announced the open webos licensing to other vendors, some weeks ago | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: that is *normal* aegis | 04:21 |
| Hurrian | in before nokia stubs every package on nokia web store | 04:21 |
| casketizer | http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html | 04:21 |
| javispedro | cehteh: I know | 04:21 |
| cehteh | that really made me lol ... like kick nokia and others in the balls | 04:21 |
| cehteh | next step would be opensourceing it completely :P | 04:22 |
| cehteh | ok i guess they dont do that | 04:22 |
| Hurrian | hmm, wonder if we can get webOS to run on other devices | 04:22 |
| javispedro | cehteh: not going to happen | 04:22 |
| cehteh | possibly not .. but i am not entirely sure .. maybe in a few years, who knows | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://dz015.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-or-python-security-fw-and-harmattan/ >>> Then you build your package. It should install nicely and your application run without problems on the device. Still, a couple of remarks: The token must go to a executable script (with #!/usr/bin/python on its first line). python myscript.py will not work. The path is absolute. After installing the package, do NOT modify the | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | installed files if they request a token. Security FW will discover an unexpected change in the file and lock the device (ops! reflash). Imported files and other resources can be modified.<<< | 04:23 |
| Hurrian | cehteh, people have tried since the beginning of time (read: 2005) to get nokia to open the goods | 04:23 |
| cehteh | yeah .. i talk about HP not nokia | 04:23 |
| Hurrian | ah | 04:23 |
| casketizer | doc??? wtf | 04:23 |
| Hurrian | that's $$$ then | 04:24 |
| Hurrian | and lock the device (ops! reflash) | 04:24 |
| casketizer | :OOOOO>>>>> | 04:24 |
| Hurrian | oh gawd what is this i don't even | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg | 04:24 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: do you still have your n950? | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | you mean if I managed to NOT stop at it? yes, hardly but yes | 04:26 |
| Hurrian | so much for consistency, system error screen uses nokia sans | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | stomp* | 04:26 |
| cehteh | how about encasing it in transparent polyester .. as doorstop | 04:26 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: lol :) | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought about a REAL BIG SLEDGEHAMMER | 04:26 |
| cehteh | hey .. willitblend.com ! | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, sth like that | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | if I read my agreement correctly, I have to pay only for loss, not for destruction | 04:27 |
| cehteh | i wonder if one can send them a n950 and ask for one of their blenders in return :) | 04:27 |
| Psi | haha | 04:28 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, visit your local gun club | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 04:28 |
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| Hurrian | wait, can we run another OS on N950? | 04:28 |
| cehteh | i want one of those .. if our kitchen blender fails i will buy a blendtec blender :P | 04:28 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: yes sure whatever you port to it | 04:28 |
| cehteh | but you cant phone, no gps, no graphics driver | 04:28 |
| Hurrian | i mean, if Harmattan is gimped, might as well use SUPERIOR NOKIA HARDWARE for a non-gimped OS | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you just experienced what's viral advertisment | 04:29 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i know .. | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | and how good it works | 04:29 |
| Hurrian | cehteh: n900-adaptation kernel-side sgx | 04:29 |
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| Psi | Hurrian: thanks, did that and rebooted and it fixed the issue | 04:29 |
| Hurrian | actually, i wouldn't be surprised if a rebuild of n900-adaptation will boot cleanly on the N950 | 04:30 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: but still some viral advertizing campains deserve respect .. and the technical data and prices of the blendtec blenders are ok iirc | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 04:30 |
| Hurrian | cehteh, the only reason i didnt get a blendtec after a renovation was because i would be tempted to chuck stuff into it instead of throwing it in the trash | 04:30 |
| cehteh | so why not .. i mean we have currently a cheap annoying no name blender ... | 04:30 |
| cehteh | the next one could be krupps, aeg ... or BlendTec | 04:31 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: lol | 04:31 |
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| cehteh | ah .. i just see that they are very expensive | 04:32 |
| cehteh | but well .. i am currently building (complete woodworking) a new kitchen anyways | 04:32 |
| Hurrian | cehteh, a wood top kitchen? | 04:32 |
| cehteh | yeah | 04:32 |
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| Hurrian | that's a bitch to keep clean | 04:33 |
| cehteh | no :) | 04:33 |
| cehteh | http://imgur.com/edlan | 04:33 |
| casketizer | this was informative. time to remove my WTB N950 sig and start shopping for backup N900s | 04:33 |
| cehteh | (older photo) | 04:33 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDPrFJazD3Q&feature=channel - wood tool porn. | 04:33 |
| Hurrian | hmm, is your name laser-etched on the N950? | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | casketizer: sensible call | 04:34 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: you know the WoodRat ? | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: nice - no flat pack I guess! | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 04:34 |
| cehteh | flat-pack? | 04:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | casketizer: if I had the money I'd already got a 3rd and 4th N900 | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: It is a form of furniture that comes in flat sheets that you assemble. | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: and in a kitchen, absorbs lots of moisture, and swells and disintegrates | 04:35 |
| Hurrian | docscrutinizer, bought a bunch of broken N900s from a repair shop | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh! | 04:35 |
| Hurrian | one day i'm going to sit down and rebuild these things | 04:35 |
| cehteh | ah for some parts (Speerholz in german) | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Hurrian: Damn - wish I could find that sort of deal. | 04:35 |
| cehteh | but most parts are massive 'leimholz' | 04:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Hurrian: how much per n900 did they want? | 04:36 |
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| Hurrian | SpeedEvil - equivalent of ~$50 each | 04:36 |
| cehteh | (which throws and winds if handled incorrectly) | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang! | 04:36 |
| Hurrian | $39 for the ones with broken LCDs | 04:36 |
| cehteh | well and i am approaching the 50L oil mark :P | 04:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Hurrian: Damn. Nice. | 04:36 |
| Hurrian | some need new flex assembly, some just need new USB, one needs a new back cover + camera | 04:37 |
| cehteh | this pantorouter looks complicated to set up and adjust | 04:37 |
| ds3 | $39? Hmmmm | 04:37 |
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| ds3 | wonder if the boards are designed well enough to put in a 3640 in there instead | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: sperr | 04:37 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yeah - it looks so simple - but... :) | 04:37 |
| Hurrian | ds3 , as previously said on #maemo, it'd be very hard to replace said SoC | 04:37 |
| casketizer | doc i have 2 but one is in very bad shape | 04:38 |
| ds3 | Hurrian: it is not that hard... I just had one done for another board. | 04:38 |
| Hurrian | hmm, i'll probably need to build a reflow station first | 04:38 |
| ds3 | the unknown is if the PCB is layed out right for the 3640 | 04:38 |
| Hurrian | i'm still using a heat gun from repairing PS3s | 04:38 |
| javispedro | bah | 04:39 |
| Hurrian | ds3, it's pin and voltage compatible, the problem is -- whether the pins go to the right hardware | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | multiplex = sperrholz++ | 04:39 |
| ds3 | heatgun won't work... too uncontrolled | 04:39 |
| javispedro | webos is starting to become hackish, with compatibility shims | 04:39 |
| Hurrian | ds3 -- agreed | 04:39 |
| javispedro | it's the exact opposite to Nokia's strategy seemingly... | 04:39 |
| ds3 | Hurrian: no...there are minor differences... one particularly nasty one is a capacitor is needed to support the higher speed operations | 04:40 |
| Hurrian | although it did work nicely for repairing 6 PS3s, which are now running as a very nice distcc cluster | 04:40 |
| Hurrian | ds3 , owch | 04:41 |
| ds3 | anyone know if the eMMC is 8 bit or 4bit wide on there? | 04:41 |
| cehteh | haha you know nokia .. they prolly saved every bit P | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ds3: mompl | 04:41 |
| ds3 | fwiw, one of the channels is no longer 8 bits | 04:42 |
| ds3 | DocScrutinizer: ? | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~mompl | 04:42 |
| infobot | i heard mompl is a stupid short form for "moment please" | 04:42 |
| ds3 | oh | 04:42 |
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| javispedro | will aegis blend? that is the question. | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | MMC2_DATA0..7 | 04:42 |
| ds3 | Good it is on MMC2, that remains 8 bits | 04:43 |
| ds3 | MMC1 is what gets neutered | 04:43 |
| Hurrian | mmc1 would be the SD card, right? | 04:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mompl | 04:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MMC1_DATA0..3 ->uSD | 04:44 |
| ds3 | that's another problem out of the way | 04:44 |
| ds3 | the NTSC output would probally not work | 04:44 |
| ds3 | be an interesting experiment if someone is willing to write a new NoLo to init the clocks right | 04:45 |
| Hurrian | ds3 , it would be great if we had an open nolo ;) | 04:45 |
| ds3 | Hurrian: yes. but it might be possible to redo it with MLO | 04:46 |
| Hurrian | no more prepending bootloaders to kernel images | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ds3: haha @ NOLO | 04:46 |
| ds3 | DocScrutinizer: I turned a HW/SW problem into a SW problem :P | 04:46 |
| Hurrian | ah right, we need a new x-loader | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, you probably could get away with N950 NOLO | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you need an xloader that plays nice | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's signed AIUI | 04:47 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, isn't xloader the part that's not verified by omap3 rom? | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | the N950 xloader is signed but not playing nice | 04:48 |
| ds3 | the signing part can be worked around | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: nope, that's the only part that actually IS verified by roomboot | 04:48 |
| ds3 | use a part that doesn't required signed loaders | 04:48 |
| ds3 | does the N950 really exists outside of Nokia? | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ds3: yes | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, what? @ last Q | 04:49 |
| ds3 | sigh... I want to buy one | 04:49 |
| cehteh | how about stopping now .. if you have to jailbreak the device then its not with the FOSS spirit | 04:49 |
| cehteh | i am sure jailbreaking will be possible in some way .. but hey if you want the original, buy an iphone | 04:50 |
| javispedro | hmmm iPhone 7 | 04:50 |
| Hurrian | ouch, we'll have to somehow obtain nokia's signing key then | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, my comment of some hours ago | 04:50 |
| ds3 | DocScrutinizer: do you know if it really uses the secure part requiring signed ones? | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ds3: which one? | 04:51 |
| ds3 | the 950. does it really use the secure version of the 3640? | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | the N9(50)? | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 04:51 |
| ds3 | arrg | 04:51 |
| ds3 | fine. then replace it with the unsecured version | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | feasible | 04:51 |
| cehteh | lol | 04:52 |
| Hurrian | this is interesting, jailbreaking by SoC replacment | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm actually not sure if the SoC doesn't boot nevertheless when xldr isn't correctly signed. I guess it's just locking the TPM | 04:52 |
| Hurrian | i sure hope that RAM is no longer PoP | 04:52 |
| ds3 | are you sure it is really signed and not just hashed? | 04:53 |
| ds3 | Hurrian: POP is no problem | 04:53 |
| ds3 | pop would be easier | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: it won't be a jailbreak as you still can't run Nokia's dialer, or angry birds, or .... | 04:53 |
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| cehteh | you can create a VM which emulates a secure system :P | 04:53 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, i'm guessing harmattan wont boot | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: RAM *is* POP | 04:54 |
| Hurrian | cehteh, arm VM on OMAP3, lol | 04:54 |
| ds3 | sure | 04:54 |
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| ds3 | while you are at it get the secure mode docs from ARM | 04:54 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, i'm going to have to learn to solder/unsolder very tiny BGA then | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you can't as you can not access the "secret" public key in TPM | 04:54 |
| casketizer | if we could put 512mb or 1gb into n900 noone would want N9(50) | 04:56 |
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| ds3 | you would need to redo the loader to setup that RAM | 04:56 |
| ds3 | but beyond that, it is pretty easy to do | 04:56 |
| casketizer | heh | 04:57 |
| ds3 | just a matter of rePOP'ing | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | "just" | 04:57 |
| casketizer | u need ftl drive to reach sirius, but beyond that its easy to do | 04:57 |
| Hurrian | hmm | 04:58 |
| ds3 | DocScrutinizer: I been doing exactly that on a diff board so it is really that easy | 04:58 |
| Hurrian | the problem would be obtaining said POP RAM | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 04:58 |
| ds3 | not really | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | rip off a 3640 :-D | 04:58 |
| ds3 | order it | 04:58 |
| Hurrian | although, if someone was able to upgrade N900's RAM or SOC or both, no one would ever buy a N9/50 | 04:58 |
| ds3 | it is a software problem. not a hw problem | 04:59 |
| Hurrian | even better, go OMCommunity-style | 04:59 |
| Hurrian | RX-52, anyone? | 04:59 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, guessing that it would be a crazy amount of work | 05:01 |
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| Hurrian | plus, we'd have trouble sourcing the parts | 05:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg the POP RAM/oneNAND actually reads Samsung KAT00F00DD | 05:02 |
| casketizer | ah btw | 05:04 |
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| casketizer | anyone know where i can get new org keyboard (swiss or german)? | 05:04 |
| casketizer | my keys are all transparent | 05:04 |
| casketizer | esp e, enter, space. ctrl, ->, etc | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | casketizer: mompl | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's "org" ? | 05:05 |
| casketizer | org nokia | 05:05 |
| casketizer | no chinatrash | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900?page=1 | 05:06 |
| casketizer | i had one from ebay, keys fell out after 3 days lol | 05:06 |
| Hurrian | hmm, anyone know how to make maemo not swap on internal eMMC? | 05:06 |
| casketizer | thx | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.thenokiaparts.com/eng/product_search.php | 05:06 |
| casketizer | thx | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/ | 05:07 |
| Hurrian | i have swap on uSD, adding swapoff to event.d script does jack | 05:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and ownta.com | 05:08 |
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| casketizer | everything outta stock | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | pretty bad | 05:09 |
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| casketizer | ownta wont load | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here :-/ | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway *if* it loads, their stuff seems really original nokia | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/platine_01.jpeg is from ownta.com | 05:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they wouldn't bother to produce those just to sell for "no" money | 05:12 |
| casketizer | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4207_Original-Nokia-N900-Dummy-Phone-puma-black.html/XTCsid/5a68f6a613c1985875b78ba271848ed7 | 05:13 |
| casketizer | lol | 05:13 |
| casketizer | yay | 05:13 |
| casketizer | you rock | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think SpeedEvil got ine and found there's *no* usable part in it | 05:14 |
| casketizer | saremi still has german qwertz | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought as much | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Not me but a friend. | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: And not completely true. It has a stylus. | 05:14 |
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| casketizer | heh | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | casketizer: so get one. Saremi is ok, got my qwerty from them as well | 05:15 |
| casketizer | i will | 05:17 |
| casketizer | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4646_Original-Nokia-N900-Tasche-CP-408.html/XTCsid/5a68f6a613c1985875b78ba271848ed7 | 05:17 |
| casketizer | anyone know how inside of it looks? | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, not me | 05:17 |
| casketizer | i can get it for 6eu here in store | 05:18 |
| casketizer | but he wont show me inside | 05:18 |
| casketizer | heh | 05:18 |
| casketizer | doc u in .de too? | 05:21 |
| casketizer | u know how much is shipping from saremi? | 05:22 |
| casketizer | nm | 05:22 |
| casketizer | found it | 05:22 |
| casketizer | pretty expensive | 05:23 |
| Hurrian | hmm, anyone tried experimenting with n900's commit= value? | 05:23 |
| casketizer | doc http://www.subtel.de/cosmoshop/pix/a/z/500027/z1.jpg | 05:30 |
| casketizer | inside | 05:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4366_Original-Nokia-N900-Hinge-Slide.html/XTCsid/5a68f6a613c1985875b78ba271848ed7 seems like a pretty good deal | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | darn, I could buy 2 of each of the replacement parts on this saremi site | 05:35 |
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| casketizer | they are expensive | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | just the LCD is maybe not really economic, as you'd probably get a "broken" N900 with perfect LCD for same money | 05:36 |
| casketizer | display+glass costs almost as much as refurbished N900 (190eu) | 05:36 |
| Hurrian | ah, none of the 128GB Toshiba EMMCs will fit in the N900 | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: no surprise | 05:37 |
| Hurrian | THGBM1G8D8EBAI2 32GB 169Ball FBGA | 05:38 |
| Hurrian | 14x18x1.4mm | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | the new ones different size? | 05:38 |
| Hurrian | no, it's all in the balls | 05:38 |
| Hurrian | */thatswhatshesaid | 05:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Have you checked the wiring? | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems the package ends at 64GB iirc | 05:39 |
| SpeedEvil | 99% of the emmc balls are dummies | 05:39 |
| Hurrian | speedevil, ahem "support" | 05:39 |
| Hurrian | if only we had 169 balls on the USB port. | 05:39 |
| cehteh | not even ground or vcc? | 05:39 |
| * SpeedEvil is of the 'they put too many screws in these things anyway' camp. | 05:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: you can get sth better than 169 balls: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 05:40 |
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| Hurrian | DocScrutinzer, can't seem to see where the RAM+SOC is | 05:46 |
| Hurrian | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-23 04:02:32] <DocScrutinizer> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg the POP RAM/oneNAND actually reads Samsung KAT00F00DD | 05:47 |
| Hurrian | ah | 05:48 |
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| Hurrian | it's on the other side of the board | 05:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | I looke, and couldn't find a vendor for bigger RAM | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, exactly what I am doing right atm, google kat00f00dd | 05:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | KBN00300RM-B437 KMXME0D0CM-B601 might be worth a look | 06:00 |
| cehteh | pimp my n900? | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Only some are available in the right ball package | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I vaguely remember kbn* don't fit | 06:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | HalifaxDailyDeals is now following me on Twitter. | 06:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's . . . interesting. | 06:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | casketizer: http://www.ersatzteil-service-24.de/?url=http://shop.euras.com/detailsseite2.php?redirect=1&pic=Y41070&vgl=1&g7=839472N | 06:07 |
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| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: they do that so you follow them back | 06:14 |
| GAN900 | But Halifax? | 06:19 |
| GAN900 | I mean, I KNOW people there but don't live anywhere near. | 06:20 |
| hiemanshu | GAN900: they are stupid? :P\ | 06:21 |
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| casketizer | DocScrutinizer,thx | 06:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | casketizer: extremely overprized, just to let yu know there *are* some sources, though really hard to find | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I stumbled into this one while searching for katfoot | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | err catfood | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | kat00f00dd | 06:26 |
| casketizer | 25 :=O | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and this is Reichelt it seems, usually has good deals | 06:27 |
| cehteh | reichert | 06:28 |
| cehteh | != reichelt or | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway it has none of all the ... oooh reichert | 06:28 |
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| casketizer | i think i rather mark my keys with an edding lol | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | leally thele is a fail bit of diffelence ;-) | 06:29 |
| casketizer | light | 06:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | time for brinner, bbl | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 06:33 |
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| robbiethe1st | Hey guys, does anyone know if the N900 supports SPI mode on the SD card? | 11:09 |
| robbiethe1st | I'm just wondering if it might be possible to hide a second microSD card in there somewhere, and connect it either to an adaptor, or to some of those debug pins under the battery. Provided you had a Mugen cover, you'd have plenty of room... | 11:10 |
| dm8tbr | robbiethe1st: I'd suggest to read the TRM for the 34xx series to get an idea what's possible | 11:11 |
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| robbiethe1st | ok | 11:13 |
| robbiethe1st | Uh... 34xx series of *what* | 11:13 |
| dm8tbr | TI omap3 | 11:14 |
| robbiethe1st | The SD card's connected directly? | 11:14 |
| dm8tbr | yes | 11:14 |
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| Evanescence | I am using Calibre to convert PDF into EPUB, but I do not know what size ( or output type ) should I choose for N900. Do you have a good suggest ? ( I find that there are margins in settings, all of them are 5.0pt ) | 11:19 |
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| Evanescence | I have tried to convert PDF with "Default Input Profile" type. but all of them can not be opened by "Mebook" | 11:21 |
| ruskie | epub is just a zipped xhtml with some metadata... if an app support epub it should be able to open it and reflow it... irrelevant of what you pick | 11:21 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: I guess that the output size that converted is not suitable for Mebook, because N900 size or Mebook Oriented. | 11:23 |
| ruskie | as said shouldn't matter | 11:24 |
| ruskie | epub is not fixed size | 11:24 |
| ruskie | it's reflowable | 11:24 |
| ruskie | so it will adjust to whatever screen size | 11:24 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: oh, so you guess which reason will cause Mebook can't open converted PDF ? | 11:26 |
| ruskie | have you tried oppening that epub with fbreader? | 11:26 |
| ruskie | on th desktop as well as on the device? | 11:27 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: Let me test it. | 11:28 |
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| Evanescence | ruskie: can not | 11:36 |
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| ruskie | then the pub might be damaged | 11:36 |
| ruskie | erm epub even | 11:36 |
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| Evanescence | ruskie: you mean that a good PDF is converted into damaged EPUB ? | 11:37 |
| ruskie | possible | 11:37 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: but I have tried three different PDF file. all same result. Is there some other reason ? | 11:38 |
| ruskie | lack of tools to do conversion? | 11:38 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: yes, only calibre do this. | 11:39 |
| ruskie | calibre uses external tools for some stuff | 11:39 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: I readed a part of manual on site, it use plugin to do conversion. | 11:39 |
| ruskie | try running any2epub or is it anytoepub cmd line tool from it | 11:40 |
| ruskie | that should atleast show what is happening | 11:40 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: Do you know other stuffs do those cnversion ? I want to read books on N900. | 11:40 |
| ruskie | not really | 11:40 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: no this command, I use man -k an2epub | 11:41 |
| ruskie | I rarely need to do conversions since I get epubs already | 11:41 |
| ruskie | ??? | 11:41 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: you want to convert epub to other format ? | 11:41 |
| ruskie | no | 11:41 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: my english is poor, I guess i misunderstand your meaning. | 11:42 |
| ruskie | do you run: any2epub file.pdf file.epub ? | 11:42 |
| ruskie | or do you run calibre -> select pdf file -> convert to epub ? | 11:43 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: no command any2epub and anytoepub | 11:43 |
| ruskie | erm | 11:43 |
| ruskie | you don't have that command? | 11:44 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: I convert with that select, and cnvert | 11:44 |
| ruskie | hmm | 11:44 |
| ruskie | maybe you need to install some extra stuff... | 11:44 |
| ruskie | been a while since I looked at this | 11:44 |
| Evanescence | ruskie: what extra stuff ? I will install | 11:44 |
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| Hurrian | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1056727#post1056727 | 13:40 |
| Hurrian | dohoho, it werks | 13:40 |
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| jonwil | so does this lockscreen replace the stock lockscreen or just sit on top of it? | 14:15 |
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| MohammadAG | no, same as mine | 14:16 |
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| jonwil | So no-one seems to be interested in all the info I have for lockscreen replacement then? :P | 14:16 |
| jonwil | Or is it just that no-one has yet had the time to try and play with it? :P | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | no, I just suck at C :P | 14:17 |
| jonwil | :) | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | actually, C's fine, I suck at gobject | 14:17 |
| jonwil | ok | 14:18 |
| BCMM | anyone know what happens (in the UK) if Nokia replaces your n900, and the USB port falls out again? | 14:22 |
| BCMM | is it still covered? | 14:22 |
| psycho_oreos | I personally don't think Nokia will give you a replacement N900. Not that I live in the UK but I think there's a scarce supplies of spare N900 available | 14:24 |
| BCMM | they did replace mine just a couple of months ago | 14:25 |
| BCMM | first they said it was out of stock, and i could have one of those symbian N-series things instead, or wait. so i waited. | 14:26 |
| psycho_oreos | nice that they have that option instead | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | *YAAAAAAWN* | 14:27 |
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| jacekowski | BCMM: they don't replace it anymore | 14:33 |
| jacekowski | BCMM: you get N8 instead | 14:33 |
| BCMM | that's what they offered me | 14:34 |
| BCMM | i supposed one could always sell it and obtain an n900 | 14:34 |
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| dm8tbr | ask for an N9 instead :) | 14:43 |
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| psycho_oreos | or N950 | 14:44 |
| psycho_oreos | ;) | 14:44 |
| MohammadAG | get the E7, not the N8 | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | it sells for more | 14:45 |
| Hurrian | hmm, wonder if nokia will replace N900 for N9 once it comes out | 14:46 |
| Hurrian | give them the missing features, mobile computer, linux excuses | 14:46 |
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| Hurrian | oh, and the storage | 14:46 |
| Hurrian | dont forget the storage | 14:46 |
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| BCMM | but keyboard! | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: moin | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: do you know *anything* about wl1271/3? | 14:49 |
| Hurrian | BCMM, screw keyboard if software keyboard has same tactile as N8 and other new touchscreen nokias | 14:49 |
| Hurrian | Linux is fun, symbian is crap for fun | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhum | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | is this still linux when it's drowned in sticky aegis-sauce? | 14:51 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, yes | 14:51 |
| Hurrian | software is replaceable anyways | 14:51 |
| Hurrian | but for now, enjoy the sliding | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | suuuuure | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Software is replacable - given enough effort. | 14:51 |
| BCMM | Hurrian: what does "tactile" mean in this context? | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | And effort - even community effort isn't free. | 14:52 |
| BCMM | unless it means i can actually use it with my eyes shut; meh. | 14:52 |
| Hurrian | BCMM : tactile = $600 dildo mode | 14:53 |
| BCMM | heh. | 14:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just busted my ears and brain with nothing any more ambitious than simply finding out about alsa mixer settings - and I'm used to friggin complex mixers like wm8753, so n950 shouldn't shock me. It did :-P | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: CTune TX - in ALSA ;-P | 14:55 |
| * MohammadAG needs to find a way to remove all audio limits on headphones | 14:55 | |
| MohammadAG | I'm sure the N900 has some limits on those | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | it definitely has | 14:56 |
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| MohammadAG | why? | 14:57 |
| psycho_oreos | there was a huge tmo thread on it, I think to prevent speakers from exploding or something | 14:58 |
| psycho_oreos | getting damaged | 14:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, for protecting your ears and saving Nokia from lawsuits about injury done by their devices | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | iPods have exactly same protection | 15:01 |
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| MohammadAG | I wish it'd recognize that I'm connecting it to an amp rather than headphones | 15:02 |
| MohammadAG | my laptop doesn't | 15:02 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, speakers, sure, headphones, doubt it | 15:02 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, *shrugs* limitations for sounds on N900 is rather ambiguous :) but granted that speakers would be definite. Though I think there was a workaround hack via messing with equaliser to get a bit more louder response (no idea if it actually bypasses the limits for speakers, etc) | 15:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63997 | 15:04 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/23/cellular_hijacking/ | 15:05 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, that bypasses speaker protection | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG | I'm just interested in a higher software level, since my amp can take it | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG | (a laptop connected to it is way louder, but I cba to carry a laptop on me) | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: well, then you had a better insight into what it actually does and how than me | 15:09 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, re: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1056806 Permission to PM? :) | 15:14 |
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| psycho_oreos | Pali, tuxsavvy (on tmo amongst other maemo.org ID) = me :) | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha, blaming stskeeps for not cooperating when it comes to ignoring Nokia's (C) :-P | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | how silly is that? un_abill | 15:23 |
| ysss | ahoy | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Some tmo members have clearly been driven insane by Nokia's handling of community | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | while pali got mentioned - anybody tested PK47 for regressions? Or at least checked it fixes the known flaws of 46? | 15:24 |
| RST38h | Ok, ok, some were insane to begin with | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL# | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you wouldn't believ what's running in a cronjob on my server box | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | just I know there *are* already mirrors of fremantle repos, and afaik even ones that don't ever delete packages | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I thought it's a shame when harmattan has some source tarballs for 24h then they get revoked ;-) | 15:26 |
| psycho_oreos | to be prepared is better than being sorry afterwards for missing out :) | 15:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [jr@lagrange ~]$ du -sh nokia/harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | 4.5G nokia/harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ | 15:28 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, permission to PM from who? | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | all hail to cp -al for this | 15:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, permission to PM you (not on forum but here on IRC) from me :) | 15:29 |
| psycho_oreos | o.O | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | .oO(???) | 15:30 |
| psycho_oreos | looks like we all could contribute to a huge tarball of all the maemo stuff ;) | 15:30 |
| psycho_oreos | nah, raising of eyebrows :) | 15:31 |
| ysss | DocS: is that mostly plaintext? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a plain wget | 15:32 |
| ysss | should compress well then | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | *shrug* | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | would defeat the daily cp -la | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also a find probably wouldn't yield results in real 0m0.160s user 0m0.024s sys 0m0.038s | 15:34 |
| psycho_oreos | rsync ftw ;) | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the daily update would just get EEEEW | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I could ask Elop for a shh account | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ssh* | 15:37 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 15:37 |
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| psycho_oreos | instead of that, you should ask him to release all the previous maemo binary blobs ;P that would be a life saver for the entire maemo dev community ;) | 15:38 |
| psycho_oreos | err release the source of previous maemo binary blobs* | 15:38 |
| ysss | they must have really decent control over their assets huh | 15:39 |
| psycho_oreos | they're paranoid, period :) | 15:39 |
| ysss | with all the disgruntled nokia staffs, there hasn't been any leaks or that sort | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | what really sucks with wget mirroring are the useless changes in dynamically generated .html | 15:39 |
| psycho_oreos | well not as yet, hopefully someone will fix them up for good | 15:40 |
| ysss | or maybe they're still going along with nokia's whims until the n9 gets its fair chance at the market... if that gets closed down, though... | 15:40 |
| jonwil | I would stake my reputation as a programmer that there is no chance that Nokia will EVER release the source code to the Fremantle blobs like the cellular stack, dialer/conversations, cellular status widgets, Fremantle MCE etc etc | 15:40 |
| Hurrian | jonwil , agreed | 15:40 |
| Hurrian | do they even have the fremantle source? | 15:41 |
| frals | lol | 15:41 |
| Hurrian | might have even been thrown out | 15:41 |
| ysss | jon, is there any non-open (licensed) codes within those parts? | 15:41 |
| psycho_oreos | securely deleted :/ | 15:41 |
| ysss | hi hurrian | 15:41 |
| frals | have a hard time its been deleted considering the investment to produce it ;) | 15:41 |
| jonwil | I suspect they still have the Fremantle versions of at least those packages that exist in Harmattan | 15:41 |
| Hurrian | frals, they flushed 70% of it down the toilet after Harmattan | 15:42 |
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| Hurrian | anyways, nokia's kept cell-communication software a super seekrit before ofono | 15:42 |
| jonwil | I doubt they would throw away old versions from their version controls | 15:42 |
| frals | if you say so | 15:42 |
| jonwil | Regarding leaks, there have been pieces here and there that have appeared for various reasons (like the Diablo MCE leak) but any leak of anything significant would be quickly pounced on by Nokia | 15:42 |
| jonwil | And anyone using or distributing the results of such leaks would be sued for copyright violations | 15:43 |
| frals | Hurrian: probably because nokia has the best *phones* in the world? ;) | 15:43 |
| Hurrian | frals, considering the investment in the tablet line, it was pretty hard to believe that N9 was the last "you may buy this legally" device | 15:43 |
| frals | investment in tablet line <- ?? | 15:43 |
| Hurrian | Nokia 770, N8x0, N900 | 15:43 |
| tuxsavvy | its hard to know where Nokia is exactly heading with that Flop on the head of that bull | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: now I disagree | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | using is definitely legal | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least in my country | 15:44 |
| frals | redistribution or modification would be illegal | 15:44 |
| tuxsavvy | N950 being released to devs, whilst they say there will only be one Meego device. They claimed the Meego device to be possibly a tablet but now it turns out to be N9 | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, even modification is completely legal and even hardly noticable | 15:45 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: regardless of the license on the original work? | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | redistribution though has to be hosted in Russia ;-P | 15:45 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, i'm sure there are a lot of tmo users who would be able to do so | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: yes, as our lawyers are not so nuts to outlaw things they know exactly they never have a chance to find out about | 15:46 |
| jonwil | in any case there isn | 15:47 |
| jonwil | isn't a huge chance of seeing any of this stuff so lets stop talking about it | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | and RE is legal here, no matter what's written in the contract | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | so is modification | 15:47 |
| Hurrian | you're waiting for a train, a train that will take you far away, you don't know where this train will take you, but you also don't know when the train will come | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | what will you do when I write a sed alike loader that modifies on the fly on each load | 15:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ? | 15:48 |
| Hurrian | frankly, by this time maemo community should've freaked out and started writing replacements for closed maemo components | 15:49 |
| Hurrian | ...excluding 3rd party crap like flash and cherry | 15:49 |
| Hurrian | we don't need to wait for nokia to give us the sauce | 15:49 |
| Hurrian | especially after feb 2011 | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: we *all* did, just your contribution still missing ;-P | 15:49 |
| jonwil | I think the problem is, many people have moved onto MeeGo or Harmattan | 15:50 |
| jonwil | Also, there is basically no-one left in the community with the deep level skills to figure out many of the unknown things like unknown dbus interfaces, unknown libraries etc | 15:50 |
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| RST38h | jonwil: You are finding this unusual? | 15:51 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer , trying to figure out python, then moving to c, then cpp | 15:51 |
| jonwil | The only thing I see that stops us from replacing the Fremantle cell stack with ofono is that we dont know the dbus interface exposed by the CSD daemon and its plugins | 15:52 |
| Hurrian | jonwil , sadly, according to the posts as of late, a lot of the talent from pre-fremantle has gone with the wind | 15:52 |
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| jonwil | yeah its sad | 15:52 |
| jonwil | many of the people who used to do cool shit on the NITs have gone | 15:52 |
| RST38h | jonwil, maybe you should concentrate on some more forward-looking things? | 15:53 |
| jonwil | like what forward looking things? | 15:53 |
| RST38h | I mean, Fremantle is kinda dead. It is not easy to port outside the N900 for example... | 15:53 |
| RST38h | jonwil: Want an idea? | 15:53 |
| jonwil | I have no interest whatsoever in Harmattan, MeeGo, the N950 or the N9 | 15:53 |
| jonwil | ok, give me an idea | 15:53 |
| RST38h | jonwil: Create a build (of whatever, Meego, Debian, etc) that will work on any generic Android phone and be usable by end users | 15:54 |
| jonwil | I have no interest in Android either | 15:54 |
| RST38h | jonwil: Does not have to be a copy of Fremantle | 15:54 |
| Hurrian | actually, the way fremantly is done, blows, and will probably have to be scrapped | 15:54 |
| RST38h | jonwil: I said *Android phone* - not interested in the Android itself | 15:54 |
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| Hurrian | fremantle-hildon-desktop OTOH | 15:54 |
| Hurrian | now that's worth porting | 15:55 |
| jonwil | I am not interested in Android phones either | 15:55 |
| RST38h | jonwil: But think of it: anyone will be able to buy an HTC phone and install Maemo on it | 15:55 |
| Hurrian | @RST38h - doesnt have to be maemo | 15:55 |
| jonwil | Pretty much all Android phones are too locked down for my tastes | 15:55 |
| RST38h | jonwil: This way, you will not longer have to rely onto Nokia hw | 15:55 |
| Hurrian | i want my fremantle hildon desktop | 15:55 |
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| RST38h | Hurrian: Well, it will probably still end up being Maemo or Meego like, due to the use of components from these | 15:55 |
| Hurrian | rst38h, we only need gtk | 15:56 |
| RST38h | jonwil: They are mostly hackable | 15:56 |
| Hurrian | dialer? can be rewritten for $CALL_STACK | 15:56 |
| RST38h | Hurrian: I would say QML | 15:56 |
| jonwil | Before you can think of Linux on Android phones, you need GPU blobs | 15:56 |
| tuxsavvy | gtk is based on hildon according to wikipedia | 15:56 |
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| Hurrian | rst38h, hildon desktop redone in Qt? | 15:56 |
| RST38h | Hurrian: Not because I love QML or hate GTK, but mostly because QML UI is much easier to maintain | 15:56 |
| Hurrian | oshi- | 15:56 |
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| Hurrian | that would be so transition-rich | 15:56 |
| RST38h | jonwil: We can live with GPU blobs | 15:57 |
| tuxsavvy | and the UI is based on matchbox according to wikipedia as well | 15:57 |
| jonwil | you also need cell modem blobs | 15:57 |
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| jonwil | and you need wifi blobs | 15:57 |
| jonwil | and bluetooth blobs | 15:57 |
| RST38h | jonwil: No way to do cell stuff with ofono? | 15:57 |
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| RST38h | jonwil: bt/wifi is standard on those phones | 15:57 |
| RST38h | no need for bt/wifi blobs usually | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think it's time for this once again ;-P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrlkvOD_Vuc | 15:57 |
| Hurrian | orite, android phones usually have blobs compiled against bionic | 15:57 |
| Hurrian | could be a problem | 15:57 |
| RST38h | jonwil: So, yes, you end up with the need for 3d and cell blobs, but otherwise it should be ok | 15:57 |
| jonwil | yep, the #1 problem with Linux on Android handsets (rather than custom Android on Android handsets) is that Android is NOT linux | 15:58 |
| tuxsavvy | DocScrutinizer, nice link, video is blocked due to my country, going to have to use proxies :) | 15:58 |
| jonwil | it uses the Linux kernel | 15:58 |
| Hurrian | RST38h , therefore expensive android phones turn into NITs from 2008 | 15:58 |
| jonwil | but it uses a totally different userland | 15:58 |
| jonwil | including a totally different libc | 15:58 |
| Hurrian | no hardware ui acceleration, no phone functionality | 15:59 |
| Hurrian | ouch | 15:59 |
| RST38h | jonwil: this is fixable by installing Meego core os instead | 15:59 |
| Hurrian | if using maemo on droidphones was like using nitdroid on n900, i'd just keep scavenging parts for my n900 for the next 20-30 years | 15:59 |
| RST38h | jonwil: Which btw is already done for many of these phones | 16:00 |
| jonwil | Except that the binary blobs for the phones are linked to the Android userland and libc and etc | 16:00 |
| jonwil | and not glibc like you need for Linux | 16:00 |
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| RST38h | jonwil: the binary blobs you need are pretty low level stuff, I am sure one can make them work | 16:00 |
| RST38h | Fake the runtime for them just far enough for them to work | 16:00 |
| jonwil | even the ABI may be different IIRC | 16:01 |
| RST38h | I am not even sure if these binary blobs even require anything from the OS | 16:01 |
| RST38h | ARM ABIs are generally the same | 16:01 |
| Hurrian | RST38h, in before a fake blob being a wrapper around the real blob, since said blob uses subset of glibc | 16:01 |
| RST38h | They are standard | 16:01 |
| jonwil | in any case good luck finding a GPU blob for any Android phones that will work with Linux and X | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Ok, do it *without* the GPU. | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Is frame buffer enough for you? | 16:01 |
| jonwil | The other problem is that many Android phones contain locked bootloaders that require nasty hacks to unlock (or cant be unlocked at all in the case of e.g. many Motorola handsets) | 16:03 |
| Hurrian | hmm, framebuffer OR llvmpipe on brand new dual 1GHz phone, with the framebuffer driver cutting non-existent battery life in half | 16:03 |
| jonwil | so you just cant run any custom kernels | 16:03 |
| Hurrian | n-nope | 16:03 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, the nexus phones then | 16:03 |
| Hurrian | or samsung's high end | 16:03 |
| jonwil | I just dont care about Android | 16:03 |
| jonwil | or Android phones | 16:04 |
| jonwil | what I care about is the phone I own, the N900 | 16:04 |
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| jonwil | and the OS it runs, Maemo Fremantle | 16:04 |
| jonwil | I care about making it better | 16:04 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, as somebody already said, the n900's are not long for this world | 16:04 |
| Hurrian | hw failure is inevitable | 16:05 |
| RST38h | Basically, even with all these limitations, you can still find MORE suitable Android hw than a single N900 | 16:05 |
| Hurrian | which os are we jumping to when the n900's are gone? | 16:05 |
| jonwil | Once my N900 dies (which wont be for ages assuming I treat it with the same care I am currently doing) I will evaluate whats out there | 16:05 |
| jonwil | and make a decision then | 16:05 |
| jonwil | but until that happens, I intend to continue making Fremantle better | 16:06 |
| Hurrian | there's a lot of nice phones with better specs than the n900 with roughly the same terrible battery life, the only problem is android | 16:06 |
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| jonwil | btw, even the Nexus S (the most open Android phone) has a Broadcomm blob for WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS, an ImgTech blob for the GPU, a NXP blob for the NFC and a Samsung blob for the cell modem comms | 16:06 |
| jonwil | Oh yeah the other problem is that NONE of the android phones with the hardware features I want (physical keyboard specifically) are any good when it comes to openness | 16:07 |
| tuxsavvy | you know.. we could spend hours on end bashing android constantly, but what's even worse is if there's no android we'd be stuck here with openmoko or iphone/wp7/blackberry without maemo/meego | 16:07 |
| kerio | openmoko was cool | 16:07 |
| Hurrian | @tuxsavvy, completely right | 16:07 |
| Hurrian | hmm, we're seeing a spectrum here | 16:07 |
| Hurrian | OM = maximum open-ness | 16:08 |
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| Hurrian | oh, we're talking about the OS as you see it on hw produced btw | 16:08 |
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| Hurrian | Android = rainbows of openness, mostly locked down to the bootloader | 16:09 |
| jonwil | Maybe when my N900 finally dies, we will have a Motorola Milestone 3 with a nice physical keyboard and no software locks (Motorola have said they want to remove the software locks and that its the carriers that are insisting on the locks)\ | 16:09 |
| jonwil | Or some other Android phone with good physical keypad and no software locks | 16:09 |
| Hurrian | before i picked up a n900, i had a HD2 | 16:09 |
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| jonwil | I have already decided to boycott HTC because of their endless GPL violations when it comes to the Android kernel on device after device | 16:10 |
| Hurrian | runs every mobile OS, just needed a keyboard | 16:10 |
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| Hurrian | jonwil, wasnt a fan of the htc android devices | 16:10 |
| jonwil | Motorola would get my support if they released a device with no software locks | 16:10 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, i'd be happy if they just had no motoblur bs | 16:11 |
| tuxsavvy | wishful thinking upon nexus s+? ;) | 16:11 |
| tuxsavvy | err nexus s2 or whatever would be upcoming | 16:11 |
| Hurrian | there's so much computing power on the new android phones that you can easily just run a chroot | 16:11 |
| Hurrian | but motoblur is awful | 16:11 |
| jonwil | The other thing I like about my N900 that you cant get on Android is the nice touchscreen | 16:12 |
| jonwil | I have used other touchscreen phones including HTC Desire and they sucked compared to N900 | 16:12 |
| jonwil | because N900 has nice stylus for precision touching | 16:12 |
| jonwil | works much better than fingers | 16:12 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, it goes hand in hand with the desktop webpages | 16:13 |
| tuxsavvy | that's called resistive.. the others have capacitative (mostly) | 16:13 |
| Hurrian | ...and Easy Debian | 16:13 |
| jonwil | in any case its immaterial as I have no plans to replace my N900 for at least 2-3 years | 16:13 |
| jonwil | unless it somehow breaks in a way that cant be fixed | 16:13 |
| jonwil | and buying a replacement is impossible for some reason | 16:13 |
| jonwil | or is so expensive that buying something new is better | 16:14 |
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| jonwil | but in any case if the N900 was truly dead, you wouldn't have anyone contributing to the CSSU in the way they are | 16:25 |
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| tuxsavvy | N900 is dead apart from the maemo community contributions | 16:30 |
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| Pali | I created wiki page with all closed fremantle packages: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages | 16:37 |
| Pali | Maybe will be usefull for somebody | 16:38 |
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| flecha | Hello! What cellphones run Maemo? I could only find Nokia N900... | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | That's it flecha. | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - release at the moment. | 16:45 |
| flecha | is it a good buy for today? | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | There is one upcoming one that is debatably maemo. | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | You can only buy it second hand, or as the last dregs of stock. | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | And there is no warranty service available. | 16:45 |
| flecha | hum.. | 16:45 |
| ysss | Yeah, they can be found at some good deals now | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | If you want a reasonably open linux phone, it's probably the least bad choice. | 16:45 |
| ysss | btw, welcome flecha | 16:46 |
| flecha | hi, ysss =) | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Though your definition of 'open' may mean that other platforms qualify. | 16:46 |
| flecha | yes... I wanteed something "open" | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I personally, for example, don't count any platforms that require 'rooting' - however easy that process is. | 16:46 |
| flecha | Maemo was the closest one | 16:46 |
| flecha | Maemo requires rooting? | 16:47 |
| hanning1 | hey, i am looking for a way to connetc my n900 to a vpn. openvpn doesn't seem to work without a config file. strongswan or openconnect have no option to enter the preshared l2tp key :/ | 16:48 |
| flecha | What about Meego? | 16:48 |
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| flecha | is it out? | 16:48 |
| SpacedOut | Flanbix: No, just install a sudo package to get it. | 16:49 |
| flecha | I found no cellphone with it in Brazil... =/ | 16:49 |
| SpacedOut | Flanbix: the N9/N950 is just starting to get the initial development units out, and Nokia has committed to abandoning the platform as soon as it's released, such a shame. | 16:50 |
| KMFDM | hanning1, can't yu make an openvpn config file? | 16:50 |
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| hanning1 | hm | 16:52 |
| hanning1 | theres no documentation for using openvpn to connect to this vpn | 16:52 |
| hanning1 | the windows-client itself is not much of a help ;) | 16:52 |
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| mtnbkr | DocScrutinizer: so, I was able to run fsck on my MyDocs partition. it truncated the file that I knew already to be corrupt... So now the interesting part. On the phone (photos app) I can see all the photos past the corrupt one, I can even manually email them to myself and they appear to be full sized, good looking images. However when I ssh into the N900 (or USB mount the MyDocs partition on my computer) there are no files | 17:25 |
| mtnbkr | with a filename greater than 20110719_023.jpg... Am I being emailed "thumbprints" (stored in the eMMC) of the full-size photos that were never properly written to the DCIM dir? | 17:25 |
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| AndroUser2 | admiral0 | 18:33 |
| AndroUser2 | hey | 18:34 |
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| AndroUser2 | hhh | 18:36 |
| godtrunks | Can i update adobe flash on nokia n900??? | 18:36 |
| AndroUser2 | no | 18:36 |
| godtrunks | No? | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 18:36 |
| ruskie | there is no update | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't. | 18:37 |
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| godtrunks | I have lot of videos that they put me to update flash | 18:37 |
| godtrunks | What can i do? | 18:38 |
| godtrunks | Nothing? | 18:38 |
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| khuong | admiral0 | 18:38 |
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| khuong | damn android os sucks | 18:39 |
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| ruskie | godtrunks, There Is No Update and unless ADOBE or NOKIA put anything in that direction there won't be anything | 18:39 |
| khuong | nothing compare to maemo | 18:39 |
| ruskie | khuong, hehe | 18:39 |
| ruskie | I'll still see how good android works when I'll get a lenovo thinkpad tablet | 18:40 |
| khuong | i just bought a gtab for my wife yesterday and i already got bored with it | 18:41 |
| ruskie | hehe | 18:41 |
| tuxsavvy | there is a leaked 10.1 version of adobe flashplayer for microB | 18:41 |
| tuxsavvy | godtrunks ^ ^ | 18:41 |
| ruskie | I'm hoping that it'll be rootable eventually so I'll be able to put a normal setup on there | 18:41 |
| ruskie | well actually not just rootable | 18:42 |
| tuxsavvy | its not supported officially by Nokia or Adobe, so if things break, you're stuck on your own | 18:42 |
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| khuong | i can not seem to video chat with n900 anymore | 18:44 |
| khuong | in gtalk | 18:44 |
| khuong | i need to get back to my n900 and making some apps | 18:47 |
| khuong | thought i can play with andriod for awhile but it is so plain and thing to play with | 18:48 |
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| fusi | amy winehouse found dead | 19:36 |
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| * javispedro curses Nokia Maps download server for being down yesterday AND today considering I'm leaving _tomorrow_ | 19:44 | |
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| ysss | wow amy winehouse is really dead | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | No, No, No! | 19:52 |
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| fusi | hoho | 19:55 |
| fusi | ysss: yea :( | 19:55 |
| fusi | saw her live b4 she was uber famous - audience of like 20 | 19:55 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 19:56 |
| fusi | rip | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Damn shame. | 19:56 |
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| ysss | i wonder if she's active online | 19:57 |
| ysss | nowadays crime/scene and forensic works extend to that domain too | 19:57 |
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| fusi | 27 club :( | 20:16 |
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| vi__ | yo | 20:33 |
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| ysss | oi | 20:47 |
| ysss | a friend of mine works in one of nokia's regional office... gonna pester her to try get me an n950... | 20:48 |
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| vi__ | ysss | 20:52 |
| vi__ | the ysss | 20:52 |
| ysss | i know right, as if there's not enough place to troll | 20:52 |
| vi__ | I find your postings cynical and hillarious | 20:53 |
| vi__ | never have I seen a more apt use of the troll face | 20:53 |
| ysss | last time i was intently (and contently) staying on irc channel was almost a decade ago | 20:53 |
| ysss | haha.. it was during the big fallout period.. i just rightly assumed the troll persona.. | 20:53 |
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| an0therb0x | please help how can i export my "conversations" from my n900 | 20:58 |
| ysss | http://tinyurl.com/3vfkclj | 20:59 |
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| vi__ | NNNY, | 21:00 |
| vi__ | find . -name "*.xml" -print | xargs cat | grep "value=\"416\"" | 21:01 |
| vi__ | I wanna be one of those guys who types in %sdf/^/^g%33*7^\$x>6y/ | 21:01 |
| vi__ | and it is actually a one line perl script that turns dog shit into gold | 21:02 |
| ysss | lol | 21:03 |
| ysss | rather than scripting to admin your system | 21:03 |
| Funnyface | I have some C source and want to compile an ARM binary that will either run on maemo or in easy debian, how should I go about it? -_- | 21:03 |
| ysss | run scripts that jacks into the stock market | 21:03 |
| an0therb0x | ysss: thanks chap | 21:05 |
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| ysss | np (chap?) | 21:06 |
| tuxsavvy | Funnyface, use scratchbox, it'll have all the right options set for cross compiling to ARM device | 21:07 |
| an0therb0x | last question, included ring tones no longer work { no matter which i select , default nokia tone plays} using my own audio files as ring tones work, which system file/profile should i be looking at ? | 21:07 |
| vi__ | gconf | 21:08 |
| vi__ | it will be somthing in gconf | 21:09 |
| vi__ | ok, riddle me this | 21:09 |
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| vi__ | how do I put stuff into the bar at the top of the screen | 21:09 |
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| vi__ | and make it stay there? | 21:09 |
| Funnyface | tuxsavvy: thanks | 21:10 |
| tuxsavvy | nw | 21:11 |
| ale152 | hello | 21:11 |
| ale152 | how can I add the same shortcut on two desktop? | 21:12 |
| ale152 | I want the phone shortcut on all my desktop, but I can use it only twice (so strange!) | 21:12 |
| vi__ | find . -name "*.xml" -print | xargs sed -i 's/value=\"416\"/value=\"432\"/g' | 21:12 |
| vi__ | ^ this one makes burritos | 21:12 |
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| vi__ | ale152: you have to duplicate the .desktop | 21:13 |
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| tuxsavvy | ale152, there's a wiki page called customising maemo which will have information on having the same shortcut on multiple desktops | 21:13 |
| ale152 | thank you | 21:13 |
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| vi__ | what do i have to kill/restart to have all my widgets reload? | 21:18 |
| tuxsavvy | I think it might be hildon-home | 21:19 |
| ale152 | what's the name of the .desktop of the phone icon? | 21:19 |
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| ale152 | rtcom-call-ui.desktop | 21:25 |
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| vi__ | would my n900 bootup faster if I had it OC to 1ghz at startup? | 21:58 |
| ShadowJK | probably not | 21:58 |
| nox- | it will also break sooner :P | 21:59 |
| nox- | ~oc | 21:59 |
| infobot | somebody said oc was an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s | 21:59 |
| nox- | ~overclock | 21:59 |
| infobot | I overclock in winter to keep dpkg's toes warm. | 21:59 |
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| nox- | hm | 21:59 |
| nox- | ~overclocking | 21:59 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 21:59 |
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| vi__ | heh | 22:00 |
| tuxsavvy | ~ocing | 22:03 |
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| tuxsavvy | it doesn't stop at frying the CPU, any associated components may get damaged in the process | 22:05 |
| ysss | Is cpu the component with the shortest lifespan on an n900 though | 22:06 |
| maybeHere | that'd be the usb port | 22:06 |
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| ysss | heh | 22:07 |
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| ShadowJK | "frying" is a bit misleading. It's not about actual heat as much | 22:07 |
| tuxsavvy | in either case it shortens the lifespan of the said product, if not it makes the device almost unusable | 22:12 |
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| ShadowJK | Well yeah, stability decreases with time, and then when it's crashing or constantly corruing the filesystems, backing off the overclock doesn't help anymore | 22:16 |
| cehteh | hehe "OC" .. use the cpu to resolder your US | 22:17 |
| cehteh | USB-port | 22:17 |
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| vi__ | what about compcache? | 22:23 |
| cehteh | there is a thread on tmo where one build it and then disappeared | 22:24 |
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| cehteh | i installed the sdk on my device and may try it someday | 22:24 |
| RiD | Hmhm, what If i wait until N9 gets released and then ask for a new N900? Would be better if they give me an N9 :D | 22:26 |
| cehteh | n9 is not a n900 replacement | 22:27 |
| cehteh | wasnt your n900 fixable? i'd really try hard to get it fixed | 22:28 |
| RiD | It isn't, but it would be better than N8 or E7 | 22:28 |
| RiD | Then sell the N9 freshy new and buy 2 N900s | 22:28 |
| RiD | That plan is impossible to happen. | 22:28 |
| cehteh | lol | 22:30 |
| RiD | The earpiece is not that much of a trouble, lowering down the volume makes it easier to understand (still weird sound). The USB is loose as hell, and I'm afraid that I have already heard a *CLICK*!!! | 22:31 |
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| ysss | Tell them that you've invested a lot on maemo/meego software/development and ask if they'd consider giving the n9 as a replacement. even with a bit of topping up. | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | ysss, so you're on IRC now? :P | 22:43 |
| ysss | hey MAG | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | heya | 22:43 |
| ysss | i dunno, am I? sort of got warped here from one of abill's thread I guess =p | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | oh yeah, the engineer | 22:44 |
| ysss | if there's a bit of legalese that can be put in the forum's rules & policy to get him banned for good, then i'm up for that. even if that piece will eradicate me as well, heh. | 22:45 |
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| vi__ | you are a noble man ysss | 22:55 |
| vi__ | abill is a turd and should be banned | 22:55 |
| vi__ | i have just figured out how to put widgets into the top of the n900 screen | 22:58 |
| vi__ | I now have 64x450px more to play with | 22:58 |
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| antman8969 | mohammadAG, do you know a dpkg switch to install a package without executing the pre / post scripts? | 22:59 |
| MohammadAG | nope, why? | 23:00 |
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| antman8969 | aegis related... | 23:01 |
| rm_you | lbt / X-Fade: hey | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:02 |
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| lbt | rm_you: hi | 23:05 |
| rm_you | lbt: i need OBS access! | 23:06 |
| rm_you | I was told you could help me with this?! | 23:06 |
| rm_you | :P | 23:06 |
| lbt | indeed | 23:06 |
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| Creteil | ~seen thopiekar | 23:55 |
| infobot | thopiekar <~quassel@p4FCD74A5.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 35m 28s ago, saying: 'after removing some apps in facebook.. at least the "Nokia N900" app and ZapLoc now chat is working again!'. | 23:55 |
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