IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-07-23

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vdvis there any bookreader better than fbreader?00:07
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mgedminvdv, if you find one, tell me!00:13
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MohammadAGKhertan, is KhtEditor MTF?00:18
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lcukMohammadAG, qml00:24
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balleyneHow can you tell what license an application in the Maemo repositories is released under? always just says "Free & Open Source license" without specifying which one, and I've seen it claim that falsely too...01:31
mgedminthe debian source package has a debian/copyright01:34
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mgedminwhich ends up in /usr/share/doc, I think, and is promptly removed by maemo's docpurge (if I recall the name correctly)01:34
MohammadAGafaik Harmattan does that too01:35
MohammadAGHope I'm wrong, otherwise, time for man-db-n95001:35
mgedminharmattan doesn't!01:36
mgedminI've /usr/share/doc/qmlcompass/copyright on my n95001:36
balleynemgedmin, MohammadAG: thanks!01:37
Atariianyone here converted user partition to ext3?01:37
MohammadAGmgedmin, sure? I remember seeing it somewhere01:37
MohammadAGcat /usr/sbin/docpurge01:38
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mgedminMohammadAG, well, I installed the qmlcompass deb from teh interwebs, and I've that file on my n95001:39
mgedminI do have a /usr/sbin/docpurge01:39
mgedminhmm... I suppose I installed it with dpkg, thus avoiding apt's configuration01:40
MohammadAGcat it01:40
mgedmincat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99-docpurge01:40
mgedminso I do anything with apt, my /usr/share/doc will disappear? nice01:40
MohammadAGjust cat it01:40
MohammadAGI'm suspecting it keeps docs but not manuals01:40
mgedminnah, it rm -rf's /usr/share/{doc,man,info}01:41
MohammadAGso basically same as fremantle?01:42
mgedminand then mkdir's and creates a README in those, proudly saying "Purged by docpurge"01:42
mgedminwith the same freemantle'ish "# Real hackers don't read docs." comment01:42
mgedminheh, "Copyright (C) 2006 Nokia Corporation."01:42
MohammadAGI hope they removed # Real hackers don't read docs.01:42
MohammadAGoh, meh01:42
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javispedroReal hackers don't use aegis.01:50
javispedroOh crap.01:50
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casketizerytf they put docpurge on a headful device.....just nokia knows01:58
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Hurrianit's amazing how linux doesn't immediately free memory02:19
Hurriannot exactly a good idea to keep compiled C files in ram02:20
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Hurrianand oh, anyone saw qtlockscreen?02:20
MohammadAGsame code as enhanced-lockscreen, just a different UI :P02:21
Hurriannice to see the configurable aspect though02:23
HurrianMAG , how's OMP coming along?02:24
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cehtehHurrian: woot? you know how allocators work?02:34
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Hurriancehteh , hmm, might place the blame on SLOB02:36
cehtehyou talk about kernel memory or userspace?02:36
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RiDThis is sad. I just noticed that my N900's earpiece is blown :(02:50
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SpeedEvilIt can also be the connector to the board02:53
RiDthe earpiece still works, but gives a terrible sound02:56
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RiDtime to send it to warranty, I just hope they won't give me a N8 or E7...02:58
SpeedEvilAs I understand it, they almost certainly will.02:58
SpeedEvilyou can get replacement bits, in principle.02:58
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RiDIt is somewhat unfair to get another phone instead of the one you bought, but oh well..03:00
SpeedEvilIt's a fix without any soldering - you simply swap the speaker03:00
RiDThat's very nice to hear :)03:01
FIQ|n900<RiD> It is somewhat unfair to get another phone instead of the one you bought, but oh well..03:02
FIQ|n900eh nvm03:02
nox-n900 not in that list tho, you sure its the right speaker?03:02
RiDBut i will try my luck with warranty first. A question (because i never sent a device to warranty)03:03
SpeedEvilnox-: I googled the n900 speaker, found the part numbebr, then googled the part number03:03
nox-ah ok03:03
RiDWill the warranty time still "drop" even when you're waiting for your device to come back/new one etc?03:03
casketizerhas anyone ever tried to compile BitchX for fremantle?03:04
RiDWell, I still have 1 year warranty, so it isn't exactly a big problem03:05
RiDI wish they could send me a new one, mine currently has 3 red stuck pixels, usb is getting loose (but still works fine), two brighter "spots" on the screen and a rusted backspace key :D03:06
RiDBut even if they fix mine, it would be only the earpiece, i guess03:06
cehtehRiD: whats happend to your device? still no usb fix?03:08
RiDIf i could sell the E7 for a very good price (500€) i would be damn happy03:08
RiDcehteh: it's just becoming more loose...and loose... USB works fine... but I don't think it will be for long...03:09
cehtehyeah time to fix it03:09
cehtehas long its only loose but functional, changes are good that it is repairable03:10
DocScrutinizerRiD: usually this doesn't mean the transducer is blown, much more frequently it just collected (usually magnetic) debris03:10
cehteh(at least I am sure i could repair it :P)03:10
cehtehdunno if nokia can (err want)03:10
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: fix without soldering? swap the speaker?03:10
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: isn't the earpiece transducer soldered to flat ribbon connector?03:11
RiDIt's sad that my N900 gave me some problems03:11
RiDmy good old 4 year N73 is still working perfectly03:11
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RiDit has some scratches, that's for sure03:11
SpeedEvilI thought it wasn't soldered03:12
SpeedEvillisten to DocScrutinizer - he's taken his apart03:12
RiDo oh..03:12
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RiDBut i guess those monkeys in Nokia (who said here that some of those monkeys installed the keyboard incorrectly?) could at least fix the earpiece03:13
MohammadAGWould be awesome if I could replace the N900 speakers with the 5800's03:13
RiDafter all the same piece is used in many other devices03:13
cehtehhow can one install the keyboard incorrectly? ..03:14
cehtehupside down?03:14
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* cehteh wonders :P03:14
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RiDMirrorwed! :D03:15
DocScrutinizerearpiece = B158003:15
MohammadAGcehteh, alphabatically03:15
RiDytrewq keyboard03:15
DocScrutinizerB1580 soldered to FPC (p.18)03:15
SpeedEvilRiD: - earpiece - page 17 - it's removable03:16
cehtehin theory everything is repairable .. with enough efforts03:16
RiDcehteh: in my hands: everything is destroyable03:17
MohammadAGIn Elop's head, everything is burning03:17
RiDReminds me of the "soviet russia" jokes03:18
RiDSpeedEvil: encrypted pdf03:19
SpeedEvilxpdf reads it fine03:20
SpeedEvilsearch for l1 l2 service manual n90003:20
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: actually just the place where it contacts to FPC it seems.03:20
casketizerdoes anyone have the url for the Nokia virtualmachine sdk images?03:21
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cehteh/var/run/screen/S-root/7569.pts-2.Nokia-N900: No such file or directory03:21
DocScrutinizerRiD: anyway, odds are the speaker is just fine, only has some magnetic debris sitting on the membrane03:21
cehtehscreen > chroot > screen  .. doesnt like it :P03:22
DocScrutinizerclean it and profit03:22
DocScrutinizerpressurized air is just fine for that03:22
cehtehpressured air... but be careful not to blow it apart ..03:22
cehteh(brush may work too)03:22
DocScrutinizeryeah, don't blow from backside03:22
RiDDocScrutinizer: So i just clean it? It's dusty that's true03:23
cehtehor when you blow from backside then support the frontside with plasticine or something like that03:23
DocScrutinizerRiD: It's probbaly not possible to clean it without disassembling03:23
RiDDocScrutinizer: bad news, anyways I have to go.03:24
cehteh(and shrinkwrap not to stick the plasticine to the membrane)03:24
cehtehRiD: maybe send me your device :P i need spare parts03:24
DocScrutinizerRiD: anyway this is NOT a reason to swap the device for a N803:25
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RiDcehteh: NO WAY! I can live with a screwed earpiece  / dusty03:25
DocScrutinizerRiD: I can try to find a spare part for you03:25
DocScrutinizerif you're interested03:25
RiDDocScrutinizer: No need to waste your time :p Maybe later03:26
DocScrutinizerok, ping me if you need help03:26
RiDBye, i seriously have to go before the end of the world comes03:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: note I never disassembled the screen assembly03:26
DocScrutinizerdidn't really feel like doing it03:27
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DocScrutinizerdunno why, maybe sixth sense03:28
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DocScrutinizerlooking at /home/jr/Documents/N900/docs/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1_0.pdf page 17 tells me it was a sensible decision ;-)03:29
DocScrutinizerand p.16 :-o03:31
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DocScrutinizer30 :-O03:32
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: btw you seen the n9 FCC page yet?03:37
DocScrutinizerLOL, vibra isn't even mentioned as solder component on L1L2 p.2003:37
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DocScrutinizererr, I think I did, but actually I couldn't bother less I guess03:37
DocScrutinizerthanks anyway03:38
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cehtehwell i am not amazed either03:38
DocScrutinizersee, N9 had exactly ONE attractive detail: FOSS. Now it turns out it's locked down to death by aegis03:39
DocScrutinizerSo I'd prefer an iPhone4 any day03:40
antman8969you'd rather support apple? the n9 isn't THAT locked down...03:41
DocScrutinizeras on iPhone I at very least know there are jailbreaks03:41
Termanagood morning03:41
DocScrutinizerwhile on N9 it's completely unclear if it's as bad as iPhone or worse03:41
cehtehDocScrutinizer: people told me in the morning that you can disable aegis with a boot option, at least for the n95003:41
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DocScrutinizercehteh: that's obviously a lie03:42
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DocScrutinizeror missinfo03:42
antman8969docscrutinizer, what even specifically caused the aegis hatred? (not defending) What was the breaking point?03:42
cehtehantman8969: you dont controll your device03:42
DocScrutinizeryou have no control over your device anymore03:42
TermanaWhen DocScrutinizer woke up to find that there was even such a thing going to be implemented03:43
TermanaThat was the breaking point03:43
DocScrutinizerNokia decides what you may run and what not03:43
Robot101antman8969: even the guys here who have worked with the protos and apparently had all of the secret builds and options to override aegis when necessary... hate it03:43
antman8969I know the general / philosophical reasons, but where did you find yourself limited03:43
* cehteh dislikes how this things get implemented03:43
cehtehantman8969: you cant install a new kernel for example03:44
cehtehwell maybe install .. but it will not boot03:44
Robot101its just infuriating and stops everything from working properly. like shell scripts, or any package you rebuilt, or or or...03:44
cehtehso your device is an expensive brick then03:44
DocScrutinizerantman8969: every single minute I work with the device I find limits trowing sticks at my legs03:44
jonwilI am sure that there will be a way to run MeeGo on the N9 just like on the N95003:44
Termanacehteh, actually, I don't think how you have described it is *entirely* true03:44
cehtehmeego runs on the n903:45
TermanaYou can run a new kernel on the N950, you just can't boot Harmattan with a new kernel03:45
cehtehreally? .. i bet it wont even boot the kernel03:45
Termanaat least, the on-device version and at least, as far as we know for now03:45
cehtehsince you need a trusted chain for the boot from  hardware to firmware to bootloader to kernel to applications03:46
DocScrutinizerTermana: cehteh: seems stskeeps is about to find out *if* it works like this or not03:46
cehtehwhen this chain is broken then you have basically a way to jailbreak it03:46
antman8969hmm... it seems like everyone is just trying to tweak their harmattan installation, not really trying to deliver content to potential end users03:46
cehtehnot that it might be easy03:46
cehtehbut even if it can be 'jailbroken' .. thats fine for geeks and developers03:47
cehtehbut doesnt mean you can deploy FOSS software for it03:47
cehtehso .. useless crap03:47
cehtehDocScrutinizer: btw will the wp7 phones go the same/similar road? .. i really wonder03:47
DocScrutinizercehteh: allegedly the bootloader allows to load unsigned kernels, just the TPM gets disabled then, which makes all protected apps fail to run03:48
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antman8969That kind of confuses me as well... is there a reason you can't deploy your application through their channels AND then open source it on your own? cehteh03:48
cehtehDocScrutinizer: how are this apps protected? encrypted?03:48
DocScrutinizerprotected apps may include: angry birds, yoghurtsport, skype, Nokia dialer...03:48
DocScrutinizercehteh: yes, that's how TC implements this protection03:48
Termanaantman8969, for WP7 or Harmattan?03:49
cehtehif not, they just check keys at runtime (aka you start them up and they fail on their own) then its basically doomed03:49
antman8969ultimatley meego I suppose03:49
Termanaantman8969, you can do that fine03:49
antman8969ooh, it was wp7 that was being complained about then03:49
antman8969lol well who was seriously thinking about developing for microsoft?03:49
DocScrutinizercehteh: I dunno how aegis has implemented it, seems aegis is rather defect by design is a number of aspects03:49
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cehtehanyways .. i didnt buyed an iphone because i wanted official support for FOSS and not dealing with batteing the vendor of my phone trying to lock me out03:50
jonwilI thought the only apps that needed protection were apps that needed it for DRM (either to prevent app piracy ala angry birds or to prevent media piracy)03:50
javispedronote that I initially had the belief DocScrutinizer was exaggerating when enumerating all the potential closed-mode only apps,03:50
DocScrutinizerno sane TC architecture would need to resort to enforcing a reflash when device gets "tainted"03:50
javispedrobut fact is that the Nokia accout setup application uses Aegis03:50
DocScrutinizera sane TC wouldn't allow device getting tainted at all03:51
jonwilIs the phone dialer REALLY protrected?03:51
jonwilAnd if so, why?03:51
javispedropurposefully for encrypting your credentials, or something to the style.03:51
cehtehDocScrutinizer: or paritition it in a secure and a untrusted areas .. really hard03:51
cehteh(not at runtime)03:51
javispedroand if you cannot setup a Nokia account -> no maps, and no drive.03:51
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cehtehwell and a acceptable TC architecture means for me that the user has control over the keys03:52
cehtehnot nokia03:52
jonwilThis Aegis crap has made me even more glad I didnt bother trying to get a N950/N903:52
DocScrutinizercehteh: this is impossible for a TC architecture03:53
jonwiland even more reason not to get one03:53
DocScrutinizerthough SpeedEvil will disagree03:53
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i think it could be possible .. but has to be accounted for03:53
cehteh(when designing it)03:53
casketizeris there any docu on aegis?03:54
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DocScrutinizerit would be possible if your device had a unique root cert, and you got a tool to issue sub-certs for Nokia's firmware to allow it to run03:54
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casketizerlol like symbian opda days03:55
DocScrutinizerthis tool had to run on a different platform, not on device03:55
SpeedEvilThough it could run on device if the device does not normally have access to the key material03:55
DocScrutinizercasketizer: yes, a "lot" of bloated crappy docs03:56
casketizercan u link me pls?03:57
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: would open vulnerabilities for keyloggers etc pp03:57
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DocScrutinizermompl casketizer03:57
SpeedEvil'point camera at page 0 of manual'03:57
cehtehDocScrutinizer: well you could bood into a secure key management environment03:58
cehtehbut of course no such access at normal runtime03:58
casketizerif it is as pathetically implemented as symbian certs it will be toast 1 month after launch03:58
DocScrutinizermompl casketizer
cehtehanyways useful may be defeated by useable .. which makes the whole idea pointles03:59
casketizerthankiez DocScrutinizer03:59
casketizerthankiez DocScrutinizer04:00
cehtehso .. now i have a git of the kernel on my n900 .. (wow linus does already 3.1 merges, he is in a hurry, vacation soon :P)04:01
cehtehis there a git for the n900 kernel somewhere?04:01
casketizerdoes this aegis have anything to do with aefis window manager?04:02
cehtehcasketizer: no04:02
DocScrutinizer(it will be toast 1 month after launch) I think the concept might be semi-penproove, but the config is so complex I bet Nokia fsckd themselves at least 5 times04:03
DocScrutinizerthe problem is there's no single point of permanent breakage04:03
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DocScrutinizerso if you find a vulnerability e.g in dpkg.real, they simply deploy an update and your jailbreak is toast04:04
DocScrutinizerand aiui they can enforce updates04:04
DocScrutinizerunless you refuse to connect to internet *ever*04:05
casketizerno idea i know nothing abt its implementation yet....reading04:05
Hurrianoh gawd, in before developer cert workaround04:05
casketizerbut everyone said symbian s60v3 certs were unbreakable, binpda needed 6 weeks or so04:06
DocScrutinizerHurrian: ??04:06
Hurrianwas going over the IRC logs, seems that you were talking about running crap on Harmattan04:06
HurrianDocScrutinizer, can't we just replace the apt stack with a vanilla one from debian after breaking nokia's very broken apt-worker?04:06
cehtehthe algorithms used are usually considered hard enough to be called unbreakable .. but they always get something wrong at the infrastructure level04:07
DocScrutinizera slightly OT OOB discussion, which sometimes is nice04:07
Hurrianno more forcing updates then04:07
cehtehyou can just firewall nokias servers on your phone :P04:07
Hurriani think nokia wouldn't bother fixing holes though04:07
DocScrutinizerHurrian: we're talking about harmattan and aegis. No apt-worker there04:07
HurrianDocScrutinizer, so how is dpkg -i handled on harmattan?04:08
DocScrutinizerSECURE != secure04:08
Hurriandoes anything pass thru aegis?04:08
casketizerdoc, so basically its impossible to mess with any OS binaries or scripts :O that sux hard04:09
DocScrutinizernote that all those words have different usually dimametral opposite meanings in TC context04:09
Psii appologise if people have been joining here and saying this all week, but has anyone else found that there n900 no longer plays videos taken with the camera? Mine now says "media not supported"04:09
* cehteh does something useful instead04:10
Psiit happened around the time of an ogg update04:10
casketizerdoes harmattan still use busybox ?04:10
HurrianPsi : apt-get update && apt-get install --reinstall ogg-support04:10
DocScrutinizeryeah those codec updates are notorious to break things :-S04:10
DocScrutinizerlemme check04:10
Hurrianthen rebuild tracker04:10
PsiHurrian: will try, thanks04:10
Hurrianiirc, harmattan still uses busybox04:10
cehtehbtw how are the caches organized on the arm cpu? whats the size, associvity .. how big are cachelines?04:10
casketizermeh my interest in N9(50) is racing towards 004:11
Hurrianthe fact that nokia locked down the thing is way beyond me04:11
Hurrianit's like they gimped the thing on purpose04:12
casketizercommercial app dev requested it i guess04:12
DocScrutinizerPsi: works for me04:12
Hurrianit's locked down, but it's gonna have less new apps than Symbian04:12
PsiDocScrutinizer: ok, thanks, must be something with my n900 then04:12
SpeedEvilIt was intended - back when - 3 years ago?04:12
SpeedEvilTo be the future of nokia.04:12
SpeedEvilAll new handsets were going to be maemo04:12
casketizerwell i buy one when harmattan-power in in extras :P04:13
SpeedEvilAegis was developed against that backdrop04:13
cehtehthere where rumors they already wanted to lock down the n900 ...04:13
Hurrianah right, the N900 -- MeeGo Reference Device, and the first Nokia Linux Phone04:13
Hurrianfirst of the new line of n-series04:13
DocScrutinizerHurrian: casketizer yes, still messybox04:13
Hurrianffwd 2 years later, still no execution04:13
Hurrianwhat. the. fuck04:13
javispedrothe story does not start with the n900..04:14
Hurriani mean, symbian and maemo both run on ARM, with all symbians running on crappy ARMv6 chips04:14
cehtehyes it does in some sense04:14
cehtehthe devices before where playthings04:14
Hurriananyone at nokia heard of how apple switched from PPC to Intel?04:14
cehtehwhere there commercial apps for the n800 n770 etc?04:15
javispedroa few04:15
cehtehfew as in mariginally few, no big interest in locking it04:15
javispedrocehteh: 770!04:15
cehtehnot a smartphone, not a competive market04:15
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Hurrianthen again, where were the commercial apps for the n900?04:16
javispedroand, the same order of magnitude as commercial n900 apps.04:16
Hurrianaside from a few games04:16
casketizeris there any besides sygic for n900 ? (not counting the game demos and stellarium)04:16
cehtehwell they tried (and failed .. ) to attract commercial vendors to port stuff to the n90004:16
cehtehovi-store for the n900 was a big fail04:16
Hurrianovi store is a /website/04:16
Hurriana slow one at that04:16
javispedrobecause they have this tendency to kill a product by announcing something stupid months before its release04:17
cehtehyes .. but they wanted a apple istore competition .. which never took off the ground04:17
Hurrianthey should've integrated everything into the device's app-manager04:17
DocScrutinizerindeed, for sure unrelated to "security"04:17
javispedrolike "we are switching to Qt" or "we are switching to WP7" or "we are switching to EFL"04:17
casketizerovi was fail period04:17
Hurrianwhich is equally slow as ****04:17
Hurrian@javispedro , in before nokia actually switches to EFL04:18
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DocScrutinizera never ending deja-vu04:18
Hurrianhow about this, nokia switching to Motif04:19
DocScrutinizerjust we at OM *always* struggled for maximum openness04:20
casketizerThe screen may display, for example, the following:04:20
casketizer# dpkg -i package_name.deb04:20
casketizerAegis rejecting package_name.deb: package 'package_name' already installed from04:20
casketizer'source_name' -- not replacing it from unknown origin04:20
casketizerno, thx04:20
* cehteh will just get the popcorn and wait and see them failing ... with the N9 .. with WP7 ... 04:20
javispedrooh, palm released webos3 sources04:20
Hurriancasketizer, wut is dat, that is veryverybad04:20
* javispedro goes to scavenge04:20
casketizerhurrian from aegis faq04:21
cehtehjavispedro: HP announced the open webos licensing to other vendors, some weeks ago04:21
DocScrutinizerHurrian: that is *normal* aegis04:21
Hurrianin before nokia stubs every package on nokia web store04:21
javispedrocehteh: I know04:21
cehtehthat really made me lol ... like kick nokia and others in the balls04:21
cehtehnext step would be opensourceing it completely :P04:22
cehtehok i guess they dont do that04:22
Hurrianhmm, wonder if we can get webOS to run on other devices04:22
javispedrocehteh: not going to happen04:22
cehtehpossibly not .. but i am not entirely sure .. maybe in a few years, who knows04:23
DocScrutinizer  >>> Then you build your package. It should install nicely and your application run without problems on the device. Still, a couple of remarks: The token must go to a executable script (with #!/usr/bin/python on its first line). python will not work. The path is absolute. After installing the package, do NOT modify the04:23
DocScrutinizerinstalled files if they request a token. Security FW will discover an unexpected change in the file and lock the device (ops! reflash). Imported files and other resources can be modified.<<<04:23
Hurriancehteh, people have tried since the beginning of time (read: 2005) to get nokia to open the goods04:23
cehtehyeah .. i talk about HP not nokia04:23
casketizerdoc??? wtf04:23
Hurrianthat's $$$ then04:24
Hurrianand lock the device (ops! reflash)04:24
Hurrianoh gawd what is this i don't even04:24
cehtehDocScrutinizer: do you still have your n950?04:25
DocScrutinizeryou mean if I managed to NOT stop at it? yes, hardly but yes04:26
Hurrianso much for consistency, system error screen uses nokia sans04:26
cehtehhow about encasing it in transparent polyester .. as doorstop04:26
cehtehHurrian: lol :)04:26
DocScrutinizerI thought about a REAL BIG SLEDGEHAMMER04:26
cehtehhey .. !04:27
DocScrutinizeryeah, sth like that04:27
DocScrutinizerif I read my agreement correctly, I have to pay only for loss, not for destruction04:27
cehtehi wonder if one can send them a n950 and ask for one of their blenders in return :)04:27
HurrianDocScrutinizer, visit your local gun club04:28
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Hurrianwait, can we run another OS on N950?04:28
cehtehi want one of those .. if our kitchen blender fails i will buy a blendtec blender :P04:28
cehtehHurrian: yes sure whatever you port to it04:28
cehtehbut you cant phone, no gps, no graphics driver04:28
Hurriani mean, if Harmattan is gimped, might as well use SUPERIOR NOKIA HARDWARE for a non-gimped OS04:28
DocScrutinizercehteh: you just experienced what's viral advertisment04:29
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i know ..04:29
DocScrutinizerand how good it works04:29
Hurriancehteh: n900-adaptation kernel-side sgx04:29
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PsiHurrian: thanks, did that and rebooted and it fixed the issue04:29
Hurrianactually, i wouldn't be surprised if a rebuild of n900-adaptation will boot cleanly on the N95004:30
cehtehDocScrutinizer: but still some viral advertizing campains deserve respect .. and the technical data and prices of the blendtec blenders are ok iirc04:30
Hurriancehteh, the only reason i didnt get a blendtec after a renovation was because i would be tempted to chuck stuff into it instead of throwing it in the trash04:30
cehtehso why not .. i mean we have currently a cheap annoying no name blender ...04:30
cehtehthe next one could be krupps, aeg ... or BlendTec04:31
cehtehHurrian: lol04:31
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cehtehah .. i just see that they are very expensive04:32
cehtehbut well .. i am currently building (complete woodworking) a new kitchen anyways04:32
Hurriancehteh, a wood top kitchen?04:32
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Hurrianthat's a bitch to keep clean04:33
cehtehno :)04:33
casketizerthis was informative. time to remove my WTB N950 sig and start shopping for backup N900s04:33
cehteh(older photo)04:33
SpeedEvilcehteh: - wood tool porn.04:33
Hurrianhmm, is your name laser-etched on the N950?04:33
DocScrutinizercasketizer: sensible call04:34
cehtehSpeedEvil: you know the WoodRat ?04:34
SpeedEvilcehteh: nice - no flat pack I guess!04:34
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DocScrutinizercasketizer: if I had the money I'd already got a 3rd and 4th N90004:35
SpeedEvilcehteh: It is a form of furniture that comes in flat sheets that you assemble.04:35
SpeedEvilcehteh: and in a kitchen, absorbs lots of moisture, and swells and disintegrates04:35
Hurriandocscrutinizer, bought a bunch of broken N900s from a repair shop04:35
Hurrianone day i'm going to sit down and rebuild these things04:35
cehtehah for some parts (Speerholz in german)04:35
SpeedEvilHurrian: Damn - wish I could find that sort of deal.04:35
cehtehbut most parts are massive 'leimholz'04:36
SpeedEvilHurrian: how much per n900 did they want?04:36
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HurrianSpeedEvil - equivalent of ~$50 each04:36
cehteh(which throws and winds if handled incorrectly)04:36
Hurrian$39 for the ones with broken LCDs04:36
cehtehwell and i am approaching the 50L oil mark :P04:36
SpeedEvilHurrian: Damn. Nice.04:36
Hurriansome need new flex assembly, some just need new USB, one needs a new back cover + camera04:37
cehtehthis pantorouter looks complicated to set up and adjust04:37
ds3$39? Hmmmm04:37
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ds3wonder if the boards are designed well enough to put in a 3640 in there instead04:37
DocScrutinizercehteh: sperr04:37
SpeedEvilcehteh: yeah - it looks so simple - but... :)04:37
Hurriands3 , as previously said on #maemo, it'd be very hard to replace said SoC04:37
casketizerdoc i have 2 but one is in very bad shape04:38
ds3Hurrian: it is not that hard... I just had one done for another board.04:38
Hurrianhmm, i'll probably need to build a reflow station first04:38
ds3the unknown is if the PCB is layed out right for the 364004:38
Hurriani'm still using a heat gun from repairing PS3s04:38
Hurriands3, it's pin and voltage compatible, the problem is -- whether the pins go to the right hardware04:39
DocScrutinizermultiplex = sperrholz++04:39
ds3heatgun won't work... too uncontrolled04:39
javispedrowebos is starting to become hackish, with compatibility shims04:39
Hurriands3 -- agreed04:39
javispedroit's the exact opposite to Nokia's strategy seemingly...04:39
ds3Hurrian: no...there are minor differences... one particularly nasty one is a capacitor is needed to support the higher speed operations04:40
Hurrianalthough it did work nicely for repairing 6 PS3s, which are now running as a very nice distcc cluster04:40
Hurriands3 , owch04:41
ds3anyone know if the eMMC is 8 bit or 4bit wide on there?04:41
cehtehhaha you know nokia .. they prolly saved every bit P04:41
DocScrutinizerds3: mompl04:41
ds3fwiw, one of the channels is no longer 8 bits04:42
ds3DocScrutinizer: ?04:42
infoboti heard mompl is a stupid short form for "moment please"04:42
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javispedrowill aegis blend? that is the question.04:42
ds3Good it is on MMC2, that remains 8 bits04:43
ds3MMC1 is what gets neutered04:43
Hurrianmmc1 would be the SD card, right?04:43
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DocScrutinizerMMC1_DATA0..3 ->uSD04:44
ds3that's another problem out of the way04:44
ds3the NTSC output would probally not work04:44
ds3be an interesting experiment if someone is willing to write a new NoLo to init the clocks right04:45
Hurriands3 , it would be great if we had an open nolo ;)04:45
ds3Hurrian: yes. but it might be possible to redo it with MLO04:46
Hurrianno more prepending bootloaders to kernel images04:46
DocScrutinizerds3: haha @ NOLO04:46
ds3DocScrutinizer: I turned a HW/SW problem into a SW problem :P04:46
Hurrianah right, we need a new x-loader04:47
DocScrutinizerwell, you probably could get away with N950 NOLO04:47
DocScrutinizerbut you need an xloader that plays nice04:47
DocScrutinizerand that's signed AIUI04:47
HurrianDocScrutinizer, isn't xloader the part that's not verified by omap3 rom?04:48
DocScrutinizerthe N950 xloader is signed but not playing nice04:48
ds3the signing part can be worked around04:48
DocScrutinizerHurrian: nope, that's the only part that actually IS verified by roomboot04:48
ds3use a part that doesn't required signed loaders04:48
ds3does the N950 really exists outside of Nokia?04:49
DocScrutinizerds3: yes04:49
DocScrutinizererr, what? @ last Q04:49
ds3sigh... I want to buy one04:49
cehtehhow about stopping now .. if you have to jailbreak the device then its not with the FOSS spirit04:49
cehtehi am sure jailbreaking will be possible in some way .. but hey if you want the original, buy an iphone04:50
javispedrohmmm iPhone 704:50
Hurrianouch, we'll have to somehow obtain nokia's signing key then04:50
DocScrutinizeryep, my comment of some hours ago04:50
ds3DocScrutinizer: do you know if it really uses the secure part requiring signed ones?04:50
DocScrutinizerds3: which one?04:51
ds3the 950. does it really use the secure version of the 3640?04:51
DocScrutinizerthe N9(50)?04:51
ds3fine. then replace it with the unsecured version04:51
Hurrianthis is interesting, jailbreaking by SoC replacment04:52
DocScrutinizerI'm actually not sure if the SoC doesn't boot nevertheless when xldr isn't correctly signed. I guess it's just locking the TPM04:52
Hurriani sure hope that RAM is no longer PoP04:52
ds3are you sure it is really signed and not just hashed?04:53
ds3Hurrian: POP is no problem04:53
ds3pop would be easier04:53
DocScrutinizerHurrian: it won't be a jailbreak as you still can't run Nokia's dialer, or angry birds, or ....04:53
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cehtehyou can create a VM which emulates a secure system :P04:53
HurrianDocScrutinizer, i'm guessing harmattan wont boot04:53
DocScrutinizerHurrian: RAM *is* POP04:54
Hurriancehteh, arm VM on OMAP3, lol04:54
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ds3while you are at it get the secure mode docs from ARM04:54
HurrianDocScrutinizer, i'm going to have to learn to solder/unsolder very tiny BGA then04:54
DocScrutinizercehteh: you can't as you can not access the "secret" public key in TPM04:54
casketizerif we could put 512mb or 1gb into n900 noone would want N9(50)04:56
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ds3you would need to redo the loader to setup that RAM04:56
ds3but beyond that, it is pretty easy to do04:56
ds3just a matter of rePOP'ing04:57
casketizeru need ftl drive to reach sirius, but beyond that its easy to do04:57
ds3DocScrutinizer: I been doing exactly that on a diff board so it is really that easy04:58
Hurrianthe problem would be obtaining said POP RAM04:58
ds3not really04:58
DocScrutinizerrip off a 3640 :-D04:58
ds3order it04:58
Hurrianalthough, if someone was able to upgrade N900's RAM or SOC or both, no one would ever buy a N9/5004:58
ds3it is a software problem. not a hw problem04:59
Hurrianeven better, go OMCommunity-style04:59
HurrianRX-52, anyone?04:59
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Hurrianhmm, guessing that it would be a crazy amount of work05:01
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Hurrianplus, we'd have trouble sourcing the parts05:02
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DocScrutinizer  the POP RAM/oneNAND actually reads Samsung KAT00F00DD05:02
casketizerah btw05:04
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casketizeranyone know where i can get new org keyboard (swiss or german)?05:04
casketizermy keys are all transparent05:04
casketizeresp e, enter, space. ctrl, ->, etc05:05
DocScrutinizercasketizer: mompl05:05
DocScrutinizerwhat's "org" ?05:05
casketizerorg nokia05:05
casketizerno chinatrash05:06
casketizeri had one from ebay, keys fell out after 3 days lol05:06
Hurrianhmm, anyone know how to make maemo not swap on internal eMMC?05:06
Hurriani have swap on uSD, adding swapoff to event.d script does jack05:07
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DocScrutinizerand ownta.com05:08
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casketizereverything outta stock05:09
DocScrutinizerpretty bad05:09
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casketizerownta wont load05:09
DocScrutinizersame here :-/05:10
DocScrutinizeranyway *if* it loads, their stuff seems really original nokia05:10
DocScrutinizer is from ownta.com05:11
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DocScrutinizerthey wouldn't bother to produce those just to sell for "no" money05:12
casketizeryou rock05:13
DocScrutinizerI think SpeedEvil got ine and found there's *no* usable part in it05:14
casketizersaremi still has german qwertz05:14
DocScrutinizerthought as much05:14
SpeedEvilNot me but a friend.05:14
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: And not completely true. It has a stylus.05:14
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DocScrutinizercasketizer: so get one. Saremi is ok, got my qwerty from them as well05:15
casketizeri will05:17
casketizeranyone know how inside of it looks?05:17
DocScrutinizernope, not me05:17
casketizeri can get it for 6eu here in store05:18
casketizerbut he wont show me inside05:18
casketizerdoc u in .de too?05:21
casketizeru know how much is shipping from saremi?05:22
casketizerfound it05:22
casketizerpretty expensive05:23
Hurrianhmm, anyone tried experimenting with n900's commit= value?05:23
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DocScrutinizer  seems like a pretty good deal05:34
DocScrutinizerdarn, I could buy 2 of each of the replacement parts on this saremi site05:35
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casketizerthey are expensive05:36
DocScrutinizerjust the LCD is maybe not really economic, as you'd probably get a "broken" N900 with perfect LCD for same money05:36
casketizerdisplay+glass costs almost as much as refurbished N900 (190eu)05:36
Hurrianah, none of the 128GB Toshiba EMMCs will fit in the N90005:37
DocScrutinizerHurrian: no surprise05:37
HurrianTHGBM1G8D8EBAI2 32GB 169Ball FBGA05:38
SpeedEvilthe new ones different size?05:38
Hurrianno, it's all in the balls05:38
SpeedEvilHave you checked the wiring?05:39
DocScrutinizerseems the package ends at 64GB iirc05:39
SpeedEvil99% of the emmc balls are dummies05:39
Hurrianspeedevil, ahem "support"05:39
Hurrianif only we had 169 balls on the USB port.05:39
cehtehnot even ground or vcc?05:39
* SpeedEvil is of the 'they put too many screws in these things anyway' camp.05:39
DocScrutinizerHurrian: you can get sth better than 169 balls:
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HurrianDocScrutinzer, can't seem to see where the RAM+SOC is05:46
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-23 04:02:32] <DocScrutinizer>  the POP RAM/oneNAND actually reads Samsung KAT00F00DD05:47
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Hurrianit's on the other side of the board05:50
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SpeedEvilI looke, and couldn't find a vendor for bigger RAM05:57
DocScrutinizerheh, exactly what I am doing right atm, google kat00f00dd05:58
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DocScrutinizerKBN00300RM-B437  KMXME0D0CM-B601 might be worth a look06:00
cehtehpimp my n900?06:00
SpeedEvilOnly some are available in the right ball package06:00
SpeedEvilI vaguely remember kbn* don't fit06:00
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GeneralAntillesHalifaxDailyDeals is now following me on Twitter.06:03
GeneralAntillesThat's . . . interesting.06:03
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: they do that so you follow them back06:14
GAN900But Halifax?06:19
GAN900I mean, I KNOW people there but don't live anywhere near.06:20
hiemanshuGAN900: they are stupid? :P\06:21
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DocScrutinizercasketizer: extremely overprized, just to let yu know there *are* some sources, though really hard to find06:25
DocScrutinizerI stumbled into this one while searching for katfoot06:26
DocScrutinizererr catfood06:26
casketizer25 :=O06:27
DocScrutinizeryeah, and this is Reichelt it seems, usually has good deals06:27
cehteh!= reichelt or06:28
DocScrutinizeranyway it has none of all the ... oooh reichert06:28
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casketizeri think i rather mark my keys with an edding lol06:29
DocScrutinizerleally thele is a fail bit of diffelence ;-)06:29
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DocScrutinizertime for brinner, bbl06:33
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕06:33
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robbiethe1stHey guys, does anyone know if the N900 supports SPI mode on the SD card?11:09
robbiethe1stI'm just wondering if it might be possible to hide a second microSD card in there somewhere, and connect it either to an adaptor, or to some of those debug pins under the battery. Provided you had a Mugen cover, you'd have plenty of room...11:10
dm8tbrrobbiethe1st: I'd suggest to read the TRM for the 34xx series to get an idea what's possible11:11
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robbiethe1stUh... 34xx series of *what*11:13
dm8tbrTI omap311:14
robbiethe1stThe SD card's connected directly?11:14
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EvanescenceI am using Calibre to convert PDF into EPUB, but I do not know what size ( or output type ) should I choose for N900. Do you have a good suggest ? ( I find that there are margins in settings, all of them are 5.0pt )11:19
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EvanescenceI have tried to convert PDF with "Default Input Profile" type. but all of them can not be opened by "Mebook"11:21
ruskieepub is just a zipped xhtml with some metadata... if an app support epub it should be able to open it and reflow it... irrelevant of what you pick11:21
Evanescenceruskie: I guess that the output size that converted is not suitable for Mebook, because N900 size or Mebook Oriented.11:23
ruskieas said shouldn't matter11:24
ruskieepub is not fixed size11:24
ruskieit's reflowable11:24
ruskieso it will adjust to whatever screen size11:24
Evanescenceruskie: oh, so you guess which reason will cause Mebook can't open converted PDF ?11:26
ruskiehave you tried oppening that epub with fbreader?11:26
ruskieon th desktop as well as on the device?11:27
Evanescenceruskie: Let me test it.11:28
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Evanescenceruskie: can not11:36
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ruskiethen the pub might be damaged11:36
ruskieerm epub even11:36
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Evanescenceruskie: you mean that a good PDF is converted into damaged EPUB ?11:37
Evanescenceruskie: but I have tried three different PDF file. all same result. Is there some other reason ?11:38
ruskielack of tools to do conversion?11:38
Evanescenceruskie: yes, only calibre do this.11:39
ruskiecalibre uses external tools for some stuff11:39
Evanescenceruskie: I readed a part of manual on site, it use plugin to do conversion.11:39
ruskietry running any2epub or is it anytoepub cmd line tool from it11:40
ruskiethat should atleast show what is happening11:40
Evanescenceruskie: Do you know other stuffs do those cnversion ? I want to read books on N900.11:40
ruskienot really11:40
Evanescenceruskie: no this command, I use man -k an2epub11:41
ruskieI rarely need to do conversions since I get epubs already11:41
Evanescenceruskie: you want to convert epub to other format ?11:41
Evanescenceruskie: my english is poor, I guess i misunderstand your meaning.11:42
ruskiedo you run: any2epub file.pdf file.epub ?11:42
ruskieor do you run calibre -> select pdf file -> convert to epub ?11:43
Evanescenceruskie: no command any2epub and anytoepub11:43
ruskieyou don't have that command?11:44
Evanescenceruskie: I convert with that select, and cnvert11:44
ruskiemaybe you need to install some extra stuff...11:44
ruskiebeen a while since I looked at this11:44
Evanescenceruskie: what extra stuff ? I will install11:44
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Hurriandohoho, it werks13:40
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jonwilso does this lockscreen replace the stock lockscreen or just sit on top of it?14:15
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MohammadAGno, same as mine14:16
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jonwilSo no-one seems to be interested in all the info I have for lockscreen replacement then? :P14:16
jonwilOr is it just that no-one has yet had the time to try and play with it? :P14:17
MohammadAGno, I just suck at C :P14:17
MohammadAGactually, C's fine, I suck at gobject14:17
BCMManyone know what happens (in the UK) if Nokia replaces your n900, and the USB port falls out again?14:22
BCMMis it still covered?14:22
psycho_oreosI personally don't think Nokia will give you a replacement N900. Not that I live in the UK but I think there's a scarce supplies of spare N900 available14:24
BCMMthey did replace mine just a couple of months ago14:25
BCMMfirst they said it was out of stock, and i could have one of those symbian N-series things instead, or wait. so i waited.14:26
psycho_oreosnice that they have that option instead14:27
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jacekowskiBCMM: they don't replace it anymore14:33
jacekowskiBCMM: you get N8 instead14:33
BCMMthat's what they offered me14:34
BCMMi supposed one could always sell it and obtain an n90014:34
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dm8tbrask for an N9 instead :)14:43
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psycho_oreosor N95014:44
MohammadAGget the E7, not the N814:45
MohammadAGit sells for more14:45
Hurrianhmm, wonder if nokia will replace N900 for N9 once it comes out14:46
Hurriangive them the missing features, mobile computer, linux excuses14:46
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Hurrianoh, and the storage14:46
Hurriandont forget the storage14:46
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BCMMbut keyboard!14:47
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: moin14:48
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: do you know *anything* about wl1271/3?14:49
HurrianBCMM, screw keyboard if software keyboard has same tactile as N8 and other new touchscreen nokias14:49
HurrianLinux is fun, symbian is crap for fun14:49
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DocScrutinizeris this still linux when it's drowned in sticky aegis-sauce?14:51
HurrianDocScrutinizer, yes14:51
Hurriansoftware is replaceable anyways14:51
Hurrianbut for now, enjoy the sliding14:51
SpeedEvilSoftware is replacable - given enough effort.14:51
BCMMHurrian: what does "tactile" mean in this context?14:52
SpeedEvilAnd effort - even community effort isn't free.14:52
BCMMunless it means i can actually use it with my eyes shut; meh.14:52
HurrianBCMM : tactile = $600 dildo mode14:53
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DocScrutinizerjust busted my ears and brain with nothing any more ambitious than simply finding out about alsa mixer settings - and I'm used to friggin complex mixers like wm8753, so n950 shouldn't shock me. It did :-P14:54
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: CTune TX - in ALSA ;-P14:55
* MohammadAG needs to find a way to remove all audio limits on headphones14:55
MohammadAGI'm sure the N900 has some limits on those14:56
DocScrutinizerit definitely has14:56
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psycho_oreosthere was a huge tmo thread on it, I think to prevent speakers from exploding or something14:58
psycho_oreosgetting damaged14:58
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DocScrutinizernah, for protecting your ears and saving Nokia from lawsuits about injury done by their devices15:00
DocScrutinizeriPods have exactly same protection15:01
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MohammadAGI wish it'd recognize that I'm connecting it to an amp rather than headphones15:02
MohammadAGmy laptop doesn't15:02
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, speakers, sure, headphones, doubt it15:02
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, *shrugs* limitations for sounds on N900 is rather ambiguous :) but granted that speakers would be definite. Though I think there was a workaround hack via messing with equaliser to get a bit more louder response (no idea if it actually bypasses the limits for speakers, etc)15:04
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, that bypasses speaker protection15:07
MohammadAGI'm just interested in a higher software level, since my amp can take it15:08
MohammadAG(a laptop connected to it is way louder, but I cba to carry a laptop on me)15:08
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: well, then you had a better insight into what it actually does and how than me15:09
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, re: Permission to PM? :)15:14
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psycho_oreosPali, tuxsavvy (on tmo amongst other ID) = me :)15:16
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DocScrutinizerhaha, blaming stskeeps for not cooperating when it comes to ignoring Nokia's (C) :-P15:23
DocScrutinizerhow silly is that? un_abill15:23
RST38hSome tmo members have clearly been driven insane by Nokia's handling of community15:23
DocScrutinizerwhile pali got mentioned - anybody tested PK47 for regressions? Or at least checked it fixes the known flaws of 46?15:24
RST38hOk, ok, some were insane to begin with15:24
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you wouldn't believ what's running in a cronjob on my server box15:24
DocScrutinizerjust I know there *are* already mirrors of fremantle repos, and afaik even ones that don't ever delete packages15:25
DocScrutinizerso I thought it's a shame when harmattan has some source tarballs for 24h then they get revoked ;-)15:26
psycho_oreosto be prepared is better than being sorry afterwards for missing out :)15:26
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DocScrutinizer[jr@lagrange ~]$ du -sh nokia/
DocScrutinizer4.5G    nokia/
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, permission to PM from who?15:28
DocScrutinizerall hail to cp -al for this15:29
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, permission to PM you (not on forum but here on IRC) from me :)15:29
psycho_oreoslooks like we all could contribute to a huge tarball of all the maemo stuff ;)15:30
psycho_oreosnah, raising of eyebrows :)15:31
ysssDocS: is that mostly plaintext?15:31
DocScrutinizerthat's a plain wget15:32
ysssshould compress well then15:32
DocScrutinizerwould defeat the daily cp -la15:32
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DocScrutinizeralso a find probably wouldn't yield results in real    0m0.160s user    0m0.024s sys     0m0.038s15:34
psycho_oreosrsync ftw ;)15:36
DocScrutinizerand the daily update would just get EEEEW15:36
DocScrutinizerI could ask Elop for a shh account15:37
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psycho_oreosinstead of that, you should ask him to release all the previous maemo binary blobs ;P that would be a life saver for the entire maemo dev community ;)15:38
psycho_oreoserr release the source of previous maemo binary blobs*15:38
ysssthey must have really decent control over their assets huh15:39
psycho_oreosthey're paranoid, period :)15:39
yssswith all the disgruntled nokia staffs, there hasn't been any leaks or that sort15:39
DocScrutinizerwhat really sucks with wget mirroring are the useless changes in dynamically generated .html15:39
psycho_oreoswell not as yet, hopefully someone will fix them up for good15:40
ysssor maybe they're still going along with nokia's whims until the n9 gets its fair chance at the market... if that gets closed down, though...15:40
jonwilI would stake my reputation as a programmer that there is no chance that Nokia will EVER release the source code to the Fremantle blobs like the cellular stack, dialer/conversations, cellular status widgets, Fremantle MCE etc etc15:40
Hurrianjonwil , agreed15:40
Hurriando they even have the fremantle source?15:41
Hurrianmight have even been thrown out15:41
ysssjon, is there any non-open (licensed) codes within those parts?15:41
psycho_oreossecurely deleted :/15:41
yssshi hurrian15:41
fralshave a hard time its been deleted considering the investment to produce it ;)15:41
jonwilI suspect they still have the Fremantle versions of at least those packages that exist in Harmattan15:41
Hurrianfrals, they flushed 70% of it down the toilet after Harmattan15:42
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Hurriananyways, nokia's kept cell-communication software a super seekrit before ofono15:42
jonwilI doubt they would throw away old versions from their version controls15:42
fralsif you say so15:42
jonwilRegarding leaks, there have been pieces here and there that have appeared for various reasons (like the Diablo MCE leak) but any leak of anything significant would be quickly pounced on by Nokia15:42
jonwilAnd anyone using or distributing the results of such leaks would be sued for copyright violations15:43
fralsHurrian: probably because nokia has the best *phones* in the world? ;)15:43
Hurrianfrals, considering the investment in the tablet line, it was pretty hard to believe that N9 was the last "you may buy this legally" device15:43
fralsinvestment in tablet line <- ??15:43
HurrianNokia 770, N8x0, N90015:43
tuxsavvyits hard to know where Nokia is exactly heading with that Flop on the head of that bull15:43
DocScrutinizerjonwil: now I disagree15:43
DocScrutinizerusing is definitely legal15:44
DocScrutinizerat least in my country15:44
fralsredistribution or modification would be illegal15:44
tuxsavvyN950 being released to devs, whilst they say there will only be one Meego device. They claimed the Meego device to be possibly a tablet but now it turns out to be N915:44
DocScrutinizerno, even modification is completely legal and even hardly noticable15:45
fralsDocScrutinizer: regardless of the license on the original work?15:45
DocScrutinizerredistribution though has to be hosted in Russia ;-P15:45
HurrianDocScrutinizer, i'm sure there are a lot of tmo users who would be able to do so15:46
DocScrutinizerfrals: yes, as our lawyers are not so nuts to outlaw things they know exactly they never have a chance to find out about15:46
jonwilin any case there isn15:47
jonwilisn't a huge chance of seeing any of this stuff so lets stop talking about it15:47
DocScrutinizerand RE is legal here, no matter what's written in the contract15:47
DocScrutinizerso is modification15:47
Hurrianyou're waiting for a train, a train that will take you far away, you don't know where this train will take you, but you also don't know when the train will come15:48
DocScrutinizerwhat will you do when I write a sed alike loader that modifies on the fly on each load15:48
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Hurrianfrankly, by this time maemo community should've freaked out and started writing replacements for closed maemo components15:49
Hurrian...excluding 3rd party crap like flash and cherry15:49
Hurrianwe don't need to wait for nokia to give us the sauce15:49
Hurrianespecially after feb 201115:49
DocScrutinizerHurrian: we *all* did, just your contribution still missing ;-P15:49
jonwilI think the problem is, many people have moved onto MeeGo or Harmattan15:50
jonwilAlso, there is basically no-one left in the community with the deep level skills to figure out many of the unknown things like unknown dbus interfaces, unknown libraries etc15:50
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RST38hjonwil: You are finding this unusual?15:51
HurrianDocScrutinizer , trying to figure out python, then moving to c, then cpp15:51
jonwilThe only thing I see that stops us from replacing the Fremantle cell stack with ofono is that we dont know the dbus interface exposed by the CSD daemon and its plugins15:52
Hurrianjonwil , sadly, according to the posts as of late, a lot of the talent from pre-fremantle has gone with the wind15:52
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jonwilyeah its sad15:52
jonwilmany of the people who used to do cool shit on the NITs have gone15:52
RST38hjonwil, maybe you should concentrate on some more forward-looking things?15:53
jonwillike what forward looking things?15:53
RST38hI mean, Fremantle is kinda dead. It is not easy to port outside the N900 for example...15:53
RST38hjonwil: Want an idea?15:53
jonwilI have no interest whatsoever in Harmattan, MeeGo, the N950 or the N915:53
jonwilok, give me an idea15:53
RST38hjonwil: Create a build (of whatever, Meego, Debian, etc) that will work on any generic Android phone and be usable by end users15:54
jonwilI have no interest in Android either15:54
RST38hjonwil: Does not have to be a copy of Fremantle15:54
Hurrianactually, the way fremantly is done, blows, and will probably have to be scrapped15:54
RST38hjonwil: I said *Android phone* - not interested in the Android itself15:54
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Hurrianfremantle-hildon-desktop OTOH15:54
Hurriannow that's worth porting15:55
jonwilI am not interested in Android phones either15:55
RST38hjonwil: But think of it: anyone will be able to buy an HTC phone and install Maemo on it15:55
Hurrian@RST38h - doesnt have to be maemo15:55
jonwilPretty much all Android phones are too locked down for my tastes15:55
RST38hjonwil: This way, you will not longer have to rely onto Nokia hw15:55
Hurriani want my fremantle hildon desktop15:55
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RST38hHurrian: Well, it will probably still end up being Maemo or Meego like, due to the use of components from these15:55
Hurrianrst38h, we only need gtk15:56
RST38hjonwil: They are mostly hackable15:56
Hurriandialer? can be rewritten for $CALL_STACK15:56
RST38hHurrian: I would say QML15:56
jonwilBefore you can think of Linux on Android phones, you need GPU blobs15:56
tuxsavvygtk is based on hildon according to wikipedia15:56
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Hurrianrst38h, hildon desktop redone in Qt?15:56
RST38hHurrian: Not because I love QML or hate GTK, but mostly because QML UI is much easier to maintain15:56
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Hurrianthat would be so transition-rich15:56
RST38hjonwil: We can live with GPU blobs15:57
tuxsavvyand the UI is based on matchbox according to wikipedia as well15:57
jonwilyou also need cell modem blobs15:57
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jonwiland you need wifi blobs15:57
jonwiland bluetooth blobs15:57
RST38hjonwil: No way to do cell stuff with ofono?15:57
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RST38hjonwil: bt/wifi is standard on those phones15:57
RST38hno need for bt/wifi blobs usually15:57
DocScrutinizerI think it's time for this once again ;-P
Hurrianorite, android phones usually have blobs compiled against bionic15:57
Hurriancould be a problem15:57
RST38hjonwil: So, yes, you end up with the need for 3d and cell blobs, but otherwise it should be ok15:57
jonwilyep, the #1 problem with Linux on Android handsets (rather than custom Android on Android handsets) is that Android is NOT linux15:58
tuxsavvyDocScrutinizer, nice link, video is blocked due to my country, going to have to use proxies :)15:58
jonwilit uses the Linux kernel15:58
HurrianRST38h , therefore expensive android phones turn into NITs from 200815:58
jonwilbut it uses a totally different userland15:58
jonwilincluding a totally different libc15:58
Hurrianno hardware ui acceleration, no phone functionality15:59
RST38hjonwil: this is fixable by installing Meego core os instead15:59
Hurrianif using maemo on droidphones was like using nitdroid on n900, i'd just keep scavenging parts for my n900 for the next 20-30 years15:59
RST38hjonwil: Which btw is already done for many of these phones16:00
jonwilExcept that the binary blobs for the phones are linked to the Android userland and libc and etc16:00
jonwiland not glibc like you need for Linux16:00
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RST38hjonwil: the binary blobs you need are pretty low level stuff, I am sure one can make them work16:00
RST38hFake the runtime for them just far enough for them to work16:00
jonwileven the ABI may be different IIRC16:01
RST38hI am not even sure if these binary blobs even require anything from the OS16:01
RST38hARM ABIs are generally the same16:01
HurrianRST38h, in before a fake blob being a wrapper around the real blob, since said blob uses subset of glibc16:01
RST38hThey are standard16:01
jonwilin any case good luck finding a GPU blob for any Android phones that will work with Linux and X16:01
RST38hOk, do it *without* the GPU.16:01
RST38hIs frame buffer enough for you?16:01
jonwilThe other problem is that many Android phones contain locked bootloaders that require nasty hacks to unlock (or cant be unlocked at all in the case of e.g. many Motorola handsets)16:03
Hurrianhmm, framebuffer OR llvmpipe on brand new dual 1GHz phone, with the framebuffer driver cutting non-existent battery life in half16:03
jonwilso you just cant run any custom kernels16:03
Hurrianjonwil, the nexus phones then16:03
Hurrianor samsung's high end16:03
jonwilI just dont care about Android16:03
jonwilor Android phones16:04
jonwilwhat I care about is the phone I own, the N90016:04
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jonwiland the OS it runs, Maemo Fremantle16:04
jonwilI care about making it better16:04
Hurrianjonwil, as somebody already said, the n900's are not long for this world16:04
Hurrianhw failure is inevitable16:05
RST38hBasically, even with all these limitations, you can still find MORE suitable Android hw than a single N90016:05
Hurrianwhich os are we jumping to when the n900's are gone?16:05
jonwilOnce my N900 dies (which wont be for ages assuming I treat it with the same care I am currently doing) I will evaluate whats out there16:05
jonwiland make a decision then16:05
jonwilbut until that happens, I intend to continue making Fremantle better16:06
Hurrianthere's a lot of nice phones with better specs than the n900 with roughly the same terrible battery life, the only problem is android16:06
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jonwilbtw, even the Nexus S (the most open Android phone) has a Broadcomm blob for WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS, an ImgTech blob for the GPU, a NXP blob for the NFC and a Samsung blob for the cell modem comms16:06
jonwilOh yeah the other problem is that NONE of the android phones with the hardware features I want (physical keyboard specifically) are any good when it comes to openness16:07
tuxsavvyyou know.. we could spend hours on end bashing android constantly, but what's even worse is if there's no android we'd be stuck here with openmoko or iphone/wp7/blackberry without maemo/meego16:07
kerioopenmoko was cool16:07
Hurrian@tuxsavvy, completely right16:07
Hurrianhmm, we're seeing a spectrum here16:07
HurrianOM = maximum open-ness16:08
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Hurrianoh, we're talking about the OS as you see it on hw produced btw16:08
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HurrianAndroid = rainbows of openness, mostly locked down to the bootloader16:09
jonwilMaybe when my N900 finally dies, we will have a Motorola Milestone 3 with a nice physical keyboard and no software locks (Motorola have said they want to remove the software locks and that its the carriers that are insisting on the locks)\16:09
jonwilOr some other Android phone with good physical keypad and no software locks16:09
Hurrianbefore i picked up a n900, i had a HD216:09
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jonwilI have already decided to boycott HTC because of their endless GPL violations when it comes to the Android kernel on device after device16:10
Hurrianruns every mobile OS, just needed a keyboard16:10
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Hurrianjonwil, wasnt a fan of the htc android devices16:10
jonwilMotorola would get my support if they released a device with no software locks16:10
Hurrianjonwil, i'd be happy if they just had no motoblur bs16:11
tuxsavvywishful thinking upon nexus s+? ;)16:11
tuxsavvyerr nexus s2 or whatever would be upcoming16:11
Hurrianthere's so much computing power on the new android phones that you can easily just run a chroot16:11
Hurrianbut motoblur is awful16:11
jonwilThe other thing I like about my N900 that you cant get on Android is the nice touchscreen16:12
jonwilI have used other touchscreen phones including HTC Desire and they sucked compared to N90016:12
jonwilbecause N900 has nice stylus for precision touching16:12
jonwilworks much better than fingers16:12
Hurrianjonwil, it goes hand in hand with the desktop webpages16:13
tuxsavvythat's called resistive.. the others have capacitative (mostly)16:13
Hurrian...and Easy Debian16:13
jonwilin any case its immaterial as I have no plans to replace my N900 for at least 2-3 years16:13
jonwilunless it somehow breaks in a way that cant be fixed16:13
jonwiland buying a replacement is impossible for some reason16:13
jonwilor is so expensive that buying something new is better16:14
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jonwilbut in any case if the N900 was truly dead, you wouldn't have anyone contributing to the CSSU in the way they are16:25
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tuxsavvyN900 is dead apart from the maemo community contributions16:30
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PaliI created wiki page with all closed fremantle packages:
PaliMaybe will be usefull for somebody16:38
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flechaHello! What cellphones run Maemo? I could only find Nokia N900...16:44
SpeedEvilThat's it flecha.16:44
SpeedEvilWell - release at the moment.16:45
flechais it a good buy for today?16:45
SpeedEvilThere is one upcoming one that is debatably maemo.16:45
SpeedEvilIt depends.16:45
SpeedEvilYou can only buy it second hand, or as the last dregs of stock.16:45
SpeedEvilAnd there is no warranty service available.16:45
ysssYeah, they can be found at some good deals now16:45
SpeedEvilIf you want a reasonably open linux phone, it's probably the least bad choice.16:45
ysssbtw, welcome flecha16:46
flechahi, ysss  =)16:46
SpeedEvilThough your definition of 'open' may mean that other platforms qualify.16:46
flechayes... I wanteed something "open"16:46
SpeedEvilI personally, for example, don't count any platforms that require 'rooting' - however easy that process is.16:46
flechaMaemo was the closest one16:46
flechaMaemo requires rooting?16:47
hanning1hey, i am looking for a way to connetc my n900 to a vpn. openvpn doesn't seem to work without a config file. strongswan or openconnect have no option to enter the preshared l2tp key :/16:48
flechaWhat about Meego?16:48
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flechais it out?16:48
SpacedOutFlanbix: No, just install a sudo package to get it.16:49
flechaI found no cellphone with it in Brazil... =/16:49
SpacedOutFlanbix: the N9/N950 is just starting to get the initial development units out, and Nokia has committed to abandoning the platform as soon as it's released, such a shame.16:50
KMFDMhanning1, can't yu make an openvpn config file?16:50
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hanning1theres no documentation for using openvpn to connect to this vpn16:52
hanning1the windows-client itself is not much of a help ;)16:52
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mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: so, I was able to run fsck on my MyDocs partition. it truncated the file that I knew already to be corrupt... So now the interesting part.  On the phone (photos app) I can see all the photos past the corrupt one, I can even manually email them to myself and they appear to be full sized, good looking images. However when I ssh into the N900 (or USB mount the MyDocs partition on my computer) there are no files17:25
mtnbkrwith a filename greater than 20110719_023.jpg... Am I being emailed "thumbprints" (stored in the eMMC)  of the full-size photos that were never properly written to the DCIM dir?17:25
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godtrunksCan i update adobe flash on nokia n900???18:36
ruskiethere is no update18:37
SpeedEvilYou can't.18:37
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godtrunksI have lot of videos that they put me to update flash18:37
godtrunksWhat can i do?18:38
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khuongdamn android os sucks18:39
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ruskiegodtrunks, There Is No Update and unless ADOBE or NOKIA put anything in that direction there won't be anything18:39
khuongnothing compare to maemo18:39
ruskiekhuong, hehe18:39
ruskieI'll still see how good android works when I'll get a lenovo thinkpad tablet18:40
khuongi just bought  a gtab for my wife yesterday and i already got bored with it18:41
tuxsavvythere is a leaked 10.1 version of adobe flashplayer for microB18:41
tuxsavvygodtrunks ^ ^18:41
ruskieI'm hoping that it'll be rootable eventually so I'll be able to put a normal setup on there18:41
ruskiewell actually not just rootable18:42
tuxsavvyits not supported officially by Nokia or Adobe, so if things break, you're stuck on your own18:42
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khuongi can not seem to video chat with n900 anymore18:44
khuongin gtalk18:44
khuongi need to get back to my n900 and making some apps18:47
khuongthought i can play with andriod for awhile but it is so plain and thing to play with18:48
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fusiamy winehouse found dead19:36
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* javispedro curses Nokia Maps download server for being down yesterday AND today considering I'm leaving _tomorrow_19:44
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yssswow amy winehouse is really dead19:49
SpeedEvilNo, No, No!19:52
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fusiysss: yea :(19:55
fusisaw her live b4 she was uber famous - audience of like 2019:55
SpeedEvilDamn shame.19:56
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ysssi wonder if she's active online19:57
ysssnowadays crime/scene and forensic works extend to that domain too19:57
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fusi27 club :(20:16
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ysssa friend of mine works in one of nokia's regional office... gonna pester her to try get me an n950...20:48
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vi__the ysss20:52
ysssi know right, as if there's not enough place to troll20:52
vi__I find your postings cynical and hillarious20:53
vi__never have I seen a more apt use of the troll face20:53
yssslast time i was intently (and contently) staying on irc channel was almost a decade ago20:53
yssshaha.. it was during the big fallout period.. i just rightly assumed the troll persona..20:53
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an0therb0xplease help how can i export my "conversations" from my n90020:58
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vi__find . -name "*.xml" -print | xargs cat | grep "value=\"416\""21:01
vi__I wanna be one of those guys who types in %sdf/^/^g%33*7^\$x>6y/21:01
vi__and it is actually a one line perl script that turns dog shit into gold21:02
ysssrather than scripting to admin your system21:03
FunnyfaceI have some C source and want to compile an ARM binary that will either run on maemo or in easy debian, how should I go about it? -_-21:03
ysssrun scripts that jacks into the stock market21:03
an0therb0xysss: thanks chap21:05
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ysssnp (chap?)21:06
tuxsavvyFunnyface, use scratchbox, it'll have all the right options set for cross compiling to ARM device21:07
an0therb0xlast question, included ring tones no longer work { no matter which i select , default nokia tone plays} using my own audio files as ring tones work, which system file/profile should i be looking at ?21:07
vi__it will be somthing in gconf21:09
vi__ok, riddle me this21:09
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vi__how do I put stuff into the bar at the top of the screen21:09
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vi__and make it stay there?21:09
Funnyfacetuxsavvy: thanks21:10
ale152how can I add the same shortcut on two desktop?21:12
ale152I want the phone shortcut on all my desktop, but I can use it only twice (so strange!)21:12
vi__find . -name "*.xml" -print | xargs sed -i 's/value=\"416\"/value=\"432\"/g'21:12
vi__^ this one makes burritos21:12
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vi__ale152: you have to duplicate the .desktop21:13
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tuxsavvyale152, there's a wiki page called customising maemo which will have information on having the same shortcut on multiple desktops21:13
ale152thank you21:13
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vi__what do i have to kill/restart to have all my widgets reload?21:18
tuxsavvyI think it might be hildon-home21:19
ale152what's the name of the .desktop of the phone icon?21:19
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vi__would my n900 bootup faster if I had it OC to 1ghz at startup?21:58
ShadowJKprobably not21:58
nox-it will also break sooner :P21:59
infobotsomebody said oc was an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s21:59
infobotI overclock in winter to keep dpkg's toes warm.21:59
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infobot"OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"21:59
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tuxsavvyit doesn't stop at frying the CPU, any associated components may get damaged in the process22:05
ysssIs cpu the component with the shortest lifespan on an n900 though22:06
maybeHerethat'd be the usb port22:06
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ShadowJK"frying" is a bit misleading. It's not about actual heat as much22:07
tuxsavvyin either case it shortens the lifespan of the said product, if not it makes the device almost unusable22:12
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ShadowJKWell yeah, stability decreases with time, and then when it's crashing or constantly corruing the filesystems, backing off the overclock doesn't help anymore22:16
cehtehhehe "OC" .. use the cpu to resolder your US22:17
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vi__what about compcache?22:23
cehtehthere  is a thread on tmo where one build it and then disappeared22:24
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cehtehi installed the sdk on my device and may try it someday22:24
RiDHmhm, what If i wait until N9 gets released and then ask for a new N900? Would be better if they give me an N9 :D22:26
cehtehn9 is not a n900 replacement22:27
cehtehwasnt your n900 fixable? i'd really try hard to get it fixed22:28
RiDIt isn't, but it would be better than N8 or E722:28
RiDThen sell the N9 freshy new and buy 2 N900s22:28
RiDThat plan is impossible to happen.22:28
RiDThe earpiece is not that much of a trouble, lowering down the volume makes it easier to understand (still weird sound). The USB is loose as hell, and I'm afraid that I have already heard a *CLICK*!!!22:31
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ysssTell them that you've invested a lot on maemo/meego software/development and ask if they'd consider giving the n9 as a replacement. even with a bit of topping up.22:42
MohammadAGysss, so you're on IRC now? :P22:43
yssshey MAG22:43
ysssi dunno, am I? sort of got warped here from one of abill's thread I guess =p22:43
MohammadAGoh yeah, the engineer22:44
ysssif there's a bit of legalese that can be put in the forum's rules & policy to get him banned for good, then i'm up for that. even if that piece will eradicate me as well, heh.22:45
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vi__you are a noble man ysss22:55
vi__abill is a turd and should be banned22:55
vi__i have just figured out how to put widgets into the top of the n900 screen22:58
vi__I now have 64x450px more to play with22:58
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antman8969mohammadAG, do you know a dpkg switch to install a package without executing the pre / post scripts?22:59
MohammadAGnope, why?23:00
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antman8969aegis related...23:01
rm_youlbt / X-Fade: hey23:01
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lbtrm_you: hi23:05
rm_youlbt: i need OBS access!23:06
rm_youI was told you could help me with this?!23:06
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Creteil~seen thopiekar23:55
infobotthopiekar <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 35m 28s ago, saying: 'after removing some apps in facebook.. at least the "Nokia N900" app and ZapLoc now chat is working again!'.23:55
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