IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-07-22

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khuonghi admiral000:05
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MohammadAGBack home :D01:27
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trxwelcome back :)01:34
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GeneralAntillesWe need a new word to replace "steal" in reference to ones and zeros.03:06
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MohammadAGis there a way to go above 100% on line-out from the N900?03:15
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cehtehNokia-N900:/usr/src/LuaJIT-2.0.0-beta8# make04:11
cehteh/bin/sh: make: not found04:11
cehteh.. meh .. setting up a chroot with sdk :P04:11
psychologehas some terminal command can record sound ?04:12
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villagerarecord might work...04:15
psychologevillager ,thanks i will try it,thanks04:17
cehtehsome gstreamer magic possibly too04:17
villageryeah, gst-launch would allow you to compress the audio too, arecord wouldn't04:18
cehtehok compiling on the device works .. but uhm slow and well .. prolly i shall add liquid cooling :P04:18
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villageryeah, there have been times I've used my N900 for warmth on cold mornings... running some games and using 3G tends to get its temperature up...04:21
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psychologei find a lot of fearture can use terminal command soultion, i need't install some program.04:26
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cehteh /var/tmp/ccFLywXu.s:459: rdhi, rdlo and rm must all be different04:30
cehtehmhm .. whatever04:30
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ebzzryIs the user "user" safe to rename?04:31
cehtehwell i dont know .. but i expect it will break04:32
cehtehalmost for sure04:32
ebzzrycehteh: why expect?04:32
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ebzzryAre references to the user user hardcoded?04:32
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cehtehmy experiences with nokia hardcoding everything :P04:33
villagervery likely it is hardcoded yes04:33
ebzzryWe can't make assumptions like that unless we have sources.04:33
cehtehtry out and report :P04:33
cehtehmake backup04:33
cehtehkeep flash images at hand04:34
ebzzryThat's the reason why I'm asking people who have knowledge of those things04:34
cehtehwell really i wont try, there are simpler ways to break the device04:34
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villagerfor starters, 30G flash memory is mounted as vfat under /home/user/MyDocs, and most of the builtin apps (like camera) expect it to be there04:35
cehtehwith some effort ext4 works :)04:36
cehtehbut changing username .. nope :)04:36
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villagerpresumably the boot process also needs a known user to start processes and the GUI for, since I have seen no login screen... and that would probably be "user"04:39
ebzzrySo at the moment, none really knows about the consequences.04:40
ebzzryI'd like to do it myself, but I use my N900 for "production" use. I can't lose 30 minutes of downtime.04:40
villagerwell I plan for my n900 to continue to work, so I am not going to try it, no04:41
cehtehwasnt villager clear enough?04:41
cehtehyou can also do a grep over a backup for the home/user path04:41
ebzzryAs far as the scrollback log says, no. grep? Hmm.04:41
MohammadAGooh, N9 hit fcc04:43
* MohammadAG looks at manuals04:43
cehtehMohammadAG: do you have interest in packaging luajit for the n900? .. i am trying to build an test it, but i am not used to packaging things04:44
cehtehif it works it would be awesome .. 30x faster than python, with a similar dynamic language :P04:44
villagerI wouldn't really consider it that similar... dynamic, ok, but pretty different otherwise04:47
derfebzzry: My solution was this: add a new line to /etc/passwd with a new username, but the same uid.04:47
derfYou can then ssh to the device, etc., using the new name.04:47
derfBut user "user" still works.04:47
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cehtehdifferent syntax .. but they are somewhat similar04:48
cehtehwell imo lua is way more elegant .. but python wins with available bindings and libraries04:48
cehtehthe good thing for a small device is that lua is much smaller and much much faster04:49
ebzzryderf: Hmm. That's what I did earlier, and it seemed to work.04:50
ebzzryIs Lua available on Maemo 5?04:51
derfebzzry: Doing more than that will definitely break things.04:51
MohammadAGhmm, the N9's battery seems no removable04:54
MohammadAGcehteh, sure, not at 5AM though :p04:54
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cehtehMohammadAG: yeah just asking if you would do it, likely matter of days or weeks ..04:55
cehtehand no n9 has no removeable battery04:55
MohammadAGcehteh, the N950's battery is removable04:56
MohammadAGin the sense that you unscrew two screws and remove it normally04:56
MohammadAGthe N9 uses some new battery, similar to that in cordless phones04:56
cehtehwell in some sense the n9 battery will be removeable too ..04:56
MohammadAGyou need tweezers or something similar04:57
MohammadAGInternal photos, page 3 and 404:57
cehtehi think DocScrutinizer gave up on the n950 .. it's closed down and no fun04:59
cehtehno SD card either05:00
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cehtehTo avoid breaking the charger connector, be careful when connecting or disconnecting05:05
cehtehthe charger cable.05:05
cehteh.. from the manual ... HAHA05:05
cehtehlooks like the same/similar surface mounted micro usb connector as the n900 has05:06
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cehtehthe n9 looks sleek .. but has nothing to offer for linux geeks :/05:09
befordit runs linux05:13
Troniccehteh: Ummh, it does have a lot to offer, just not qwerty nor a lot of connectors.05:16
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cehtehthe OS is locked down, you basically have no access to it05:17
cehtehwell talk with DocScrutinizer about the issues .. i dont have a n95005:17
Troniccehteh: Largely open-source system where you can get root access and apt-get the software you need should keep most Linux geeks satisfied.05:18
TronicUmmh, who said the OS is locked down?05:18
TronicSurely root access won't be something you can find in the apps menu but I haven't heard of it being closed.05:19
Tronic... and it certainly is available on the N950.05:19
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cehtehfor consumer devices all apps have to be signed05:20
TronicHmm, that sucks.05:21
cehtehsearch for "meego aegis"05:21
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cehtehthere is no much information yet how this will be used in practice ..05:21
cehtehbut so far nokia has the keys and no one else05:21
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MohammadAGeasy, aegis is oil for the burning platform05:21
TronicMaybe similar to how they did with Symbian - you can self-sign for your own device or you can have Nokia sign for all devices.05:22
psychologehow use gst-launch record microphone sound to local file?05:22
MohammadAGno, you can just tell aegis to stfu05:22
cehtehMohammadAG: on the developer device .. but obliviously not for consumer devices05:23
MohammadAGof course, no one knows the bad stuff that causes05:23
TronicApp review makes sense because we wouldn't want the store to be full of malware like the Android Market is.05:23
MohammadAGcehteh, even the consumer device05:23
cehtehwell you have to tell the consumer to do that05:23
TronicYet, I'd like to see a "I know what I am doing" solution for power users.05:23
MohammadAGafaik, it's a reboot away05:23
MohammadAGpower users don't play angry birds05:24
MohammadAGfigure out what that means :P05:24
cehtehi bet not and there will be alarm bells and red lights when a user tries to disable it05:24
MohammadAGit takes a reboot for you to go from a consumer to a power user and back05:24
TronicIn any case, the devices will be "jailbroken" if this becomes a problem (i.e. Nokia doesn't give power users that access).05:24
MohammadAGpower users can do what they want05:24
cehtehah .. so first installing ccache on the device .. thats no fun with this build times :P05:24
MohammadAGbut they can't use commercial apps05:25
MohammadAGin open mode, you can't run games or stuff like that05:25
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cehtehcommunity developers will have hard times to push their apps05:25
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villagerperhaps Ovi store will be for that... publish your stuff on Ovi to get it signed05:27
cehtehah that was easy, installing ccache on the n900 .. works out of the box05:28
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villagerMohammadAG: will these power users still be able to use the gsm radio?05:29
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cehtehyay MohammadAG ccache is cool when you do C compiling on the device, do you?05:49
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cehteh# ./src/luajit05:58
cehtehLuaJIT 2.0.0-beta8 -- Copyright (C) 2005-2011 Mike Pall.
cehtehJIT: ON ARMv6 ARMv6T2 ARMv7 fold cse dce fwd dse narrow loop abc fuse05:58
cehteh> print"Wello Horld?"05:58
cehtehWello Horld?05:58
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jieroanybody can give hints to hide the cursor in some programs.?05:59
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jieroImagine you want to flip to left workspace/desktop, put one finger on  screen - better left side, hold there and quickly put another on its  right of the screen, then raise the left one. See, thats how easy to  quick switch, no need to against swipe resistance.07:36
jieroSeems very few people use this trick07:36
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cehtehjiero: needs 2 fingers07:37
cehtehi've configured parallax to 2.1 .. no much swipe required07:38
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jierocehteh: or you have split your nail into 2  d.D07:40
robbiethe1stHm, speaking of gestures, does anyone know of a way to make it easier to "right-click" on links in MicroB?07:41
robbiethe1stI often times have to press like 5 times to get the proper menu to come up07:41
cehtehrobbiethe1st: yeah seems to be hardcoded or somewhere hidden in gconf :/07:42
cehtehpixel fudge factor and timeout should be configureable07:42
paulyanyone want to buy a broken n900?07:42
cehtehtell me if you find somethnig07:42
cehtehpauly: whats broken and how much?07:42
cehtehbrb reboot07:42
robbiethe1stWell, the weird thing is that for left-clicking, it works great. for right-clicking, though, the link highlights, but most of the time it just shows the "generic" context menu07:43
cehteh$ uname -a07:50
cehtehLinux pluto 3.0.0+ #32 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jul 22 06:06:51 CEST 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux07:50
cehteh3.0 is out btw :P07:50
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cehtehrobbiethe1st: try with the stylus07:51
cehtehyou have to keep your finger very steady it only registers a right click when you dont move07:52
cehteh(and you really have to hit the widget ...)07:52
robbiethe1stThat's not the problem - it registers it as a non-link right-click07:52
robbiethe1stlike if you long-pressed anywhere else07:53
robbiethe1stwithout the "open link in new window" option07:53
cehtehyes not steady enough .. i see that too07:53
cehtehtry with stylus carefully that almost always works07:54
cehtehfinger isnt steady enough07:54
robbiethe1stYea, that works07:54
robbiethe1stit's just07:54
robbiethe1stI was hoping to actually improve it's response somehow07:54
cehtehwould be nice if thats easily configureable, but i dont know where07:55
cehtehyes .. i exactly know how it could be improved .. but i dont know where the option is if not hardcoded07:55
paulycenteh: screen and usb broke07:55
lofty306ground shaking thunder07:56
lofty306oofs wrooong channel07:56
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robbiethe1stscreen's $40 to replace; USB's about ~$5 if you've got some soldering talent07:56
cehtehpauly: eek .. i would liked it as donor for spare parts .. but uhm .. seems the spare parts one would need are broken :P07:56
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robbiethe1stI'd buy it if I had more than $5 in my account07:57
robbiethe1stDarn people don't want to donate.07:57
ShadowJKIt highlights the widget on first pressure, but makes decision of what kind of menu to bring up based on where pointer is at time of popping up menu07:57
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Neccworsest time for donations07:58
cehtehrobbiethe1st: when you move it has some pixel treshold before registering it as drag or loosing the widget context and using the wrong menu07:58
Necceverybody saving up for holidays or goint to07:58
cehtehthis is just all crap together .. for once its a bug that it doesnt registers the initial position .. and for another that you cant raise this treshold07:58
cehtehok ... bye07:59
paulyso noone needs my n90008:00
ShadowJKNecc, in Finland the prison inmates get holidays too08:00
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paulyi would put it on ebay but i only got $190 for my n90008:01
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Arkenoihow can i log in to my nokia messaging account via web? when i try to i either get nowhere or to my ovi mail account08:53
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jierobetter there is a ctrl key on N900 keyboard...09:11
jierothen do ctrl left-click...09:11
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JaffaGAN900: ping11:12
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HurrianI proudly take responsibility of this prototype and take good care of it.11:26
HurrianIn case I lose it I will contact my prototype manager.11:26
robbiethe1stHm, so what... generate a bunch of generic real-looking gmail addresses, and then spam that form with potential IMEIs?11:27
robbiethe1stand see if you can't get any info out of it?11:28
Kaadlajkyou wont get any11:29
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BCMMHurrian: that sounds suspiciously like a portal quote11:34
HurrianBCMM , indeed11:36
Hurrianlooks like something you would find on a testing guideline list11:37
BCMMrobbiethe1st: IMEIs are kinda long numbers11:39
FIQ|n900with the N950, YOU are the test subject11:39
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robbiethe1stTake a known device, change a couple of the last numbers?11:40
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Hurrian...due to mandatory testing protocols, you must dispose of your RM-680 in Elop's Nokia Value Incinerator11:41
Hurriansounds about right11:41
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jacekowskiwell, IMEI numbers are quite limited11:45
jacekowskiand sequential for a big part11:45
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lolcatI can have a N950?11:59
lolcatHow much are they?!11:59
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Termanagood morning12:03
crashanddielolcat, they're not for sale.#12:04
lolcatcrashanddie: nobody nowhere sells them?12:04
lolcatHow EVIL!12:05
hiemanshunope, and if they do, its illegal12:05
crashanddieThey're development devices only.12:05
lolcatWhat is Elops adress?12:05
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crashanddieWoodinville, Washington state, USA.12:06
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hiemanshuisnt he from .ca?12:06
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TermanaYour both wrong. He still receives mail from Redmond. NOTHING SUSS12:09
lolcatIf I wrote a personal letter to Nokia, with a tale of cancer and a life in sorrow, thin they will send me a N950?12:11
Troniclolcat: i am pretty sure they will send you an n8, or even worse, a windows phone.12:13
lolcatIf I say I got brain cancer from their phone?12:13
Termanalolcat, they will sue you for making them talk to their lawyers12:14
Tronicbut you might wanna learn qt, qml, meego etc. and get a developer device still.12:14
TermanaTronic, not even possible.12:14
Tronicdunno if all 250 are already given away12:15
hiemanshuthey have been given away12:15
TermanaFront and back doors are closed12:15
hiemanshubut there are more12:15
Tronictoo bad then.12:15
hiemanshubut those have their owners names written too12:15
Termanahiemanshu, DDP took the week off! Unbelievable... :p12:16
hiemanshuno, expected12:16
hiemanshuwith all the emails, etc12:16
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Termanahiemanshu, I wonder whether they will fasten my order up if I promise them my first baby... :p12:18
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TermanaPsych, I'm infertile12:21
TermanaJust kidding :p12:21
crashanddieThat's what you think.12:22
* Termana makes a doctors appointment12:23
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Hurriantermana, pretty easy to check if you're fertil12:24
Hurrianstep 1, obtain wimmen12:24
Hurrianstep 2, sexy time12:24
Hurrianstep 3, wait12:24
Hurrianif process returned error code 1, report CNR to bugtracker12:25
ruskieHurrian, step 3a - feed and water and keep safe12:25
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Hurrianwhich reminds me, i still havent bothered to build that fully-ext4 maemo root i've been wanting to do12:26
Hurrianbrb, testing newly compiled kernel12:26
TermanaHurrian, Is that the only thing you've got root to?12:26
ruskiewhy would you wan tto go with ext4 root?12:26
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TermanaI think you just laid out some steps for yourself, like a to-do list or something12:26
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* Hurrian rages12:29
Hurrianoh menuconfig, why do you complain about needing 80x2112:35
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wazdthere are some rumors that "russian" N950's are @ Nokia Russia already :)12:38
achipawazd: a Serbian N950 recipient also said his device is @ Nokia Russia. How Russia is a shortcut from Finland to Serbia, I have no idea :)12:39
wazdachipa: me neither :D12:40
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ruskiewell both using Cyrilic letters ;)12:40
wazdachipa: what's wrong with serbian customs anyway :)12:40
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achipawazd: a-Ha ! that actually might be the case - Serbia and Russia have a duty-free regime for most items...12:41
achipawhile I'm pretty sure you have to pay serious $$$ if you get a package direct from the EU12:41
wazdachipa: russian costoms simply don't accept packages with 0 value12:42
wazdachipa: can't explain why, it's Russia, you know :D12:42
achipawazd: Serbian customs accept it. They have a very simple solution. Handling duty/tax is ~100E, regardless of what you declared. If it has value, it goes extra on top of that.12:43
wazdTermana: you sound like Tom Hanks character in "the Terminal" :D12:43
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wazdachipa: oh well12:44
Termanawazd, heh. "Da" is the only Russian word I know! And I only know it because of an IRC joke :p12:45
wazdTermana: there's also "Net" i "Na zdorovie!" :D12:45
Hurrianachipa, 100EUR?12:46
Hurrianwhat the f---12:46
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achipaTermana: for a more authentic accent say Да12:46
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ruskieHurrian, welcome to the balkans12:47
Termanaachipa, in Soviet Russia, accent authenticates you!12:47
Hurrianthat's like shoving a tank barrel straight up your---12:48
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achipaHurrian: they do that too. Well, at least did in the past.12:48
wazdachipa: hehe, Да12:48
ruskiegah... why does the boss keep wanting on sending me to various traning even though that never helped me with anything12:49
Hurrianruskie, compliance/certifications i guess12:49
Termanaruskie, those are called junkets, and you are suppose to a) drink lots of beer and enjoy yourself at them b) pretend to care about what is actually there and c) tell your boss that you think it is best for the company if he comes too12:50
JaffaWTF. I've just got an email saying "I've bricked my N9, and can't get it working even with the N950 image. Can you help?"12:50
ruskieJaffa, rofl12:50
ruskieTermana, sadly not around here12:50
Jaffa"Send it to me, and I'll take care of it" was a tempting response ;-)12:51
andre__Jaffa: "No." is also tempting.12:51
Termanaruskie, I suppose you don't electrocute people and leave them stuck in elevators either?12:51
TermanaJaffa, lol12:51
ruskieTermana, no elevators around here12:51
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ruskieas for electrocution... don't need... it self happens due to the crappy wirring12:52
Hurrianah, nokia still hasnt fixed the problem of the device constantly self-bricking it seems]12:52
wazdJaffa: You insatiable bastard :D12:52
ruskieTermana, around here generally any training is: arrive the day before -> start at 0900 -> end at 2200 -> repeat until done -> go back home12:53
Jaffawazd: Hell, an N9 (unbricked) would have fewer bugs and more features.12:53
fluxjaffa, well unless you reflashed it with an older n950 image?-)12:54
JaffaBut I'd email Nokia and say "my N9's bust, can I have an image please?"12:54
ruskienot to mention someone yaking at me about stuff has never caught on for me to be the best method of learning12:54
wazdJaffa: wrong! "My N9's bust, can I have another one please?" :)12:55
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Jaffawazd: Ah, true :-)12:56
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ruskienot to mention I really don't have any wish to travel12:56
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EvanescenceThe public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY AD88889DKk.... which command can addd and pubkey ?13:15
Jaffa makes it easier to decide between the N950 and N9 for me.13:17
lcuk2Jaffa, so which13:18
SpeedEvilFucking stupid.13:18
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Jaffalcuk2: Given I was hoping to be able to buy my lunch in Boots via NFC, having a keyboard trumps minor thoughts about in-house geolocation using NFC tags13:20
SpeedEvilI note that all the commenters on the nokia blog like the features that will be left out.13:20
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DocScrutinizer(<MohammadAG> it takes a reboot for you to go from a consumer to a power user and back) No, djszapi clearly said aegis CAN NOT get shut down13:34
DocScrutinizerallegedly you can boot your own aegis-free kernel, but that's yet to demonstrate to work13:35
DocScrutinizerobviously this aegis-free kernel will have no access to modem for example13:35
DocScrutinizerrsp, you won't be able to use nokia's dialer13:36
DocScrutinizermeegoCE is *supposed* to work, without aegis13:37
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DocScrutinizerlast statement of stskeeps was "some problems still to sort out, but no blinking red lights yet" OWTTE13:37
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GNUtoo|laptopno access to the modem13:40
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DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: see next line13:43
DocScrutinizerit's unlikely (though possible) they even locked the hw if to modem by crypto means13:45
DocScrutinizerbut aiui all the libs / binaries related to modem are blobs and signed13:45
DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: won't matter for FSO :-)13:46
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* robbiethe1st is actually glad now that they didn't approve his N950 application13:53
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robbiethe1stNo messing with all this CR@P13:53
robbiethe1stLike signed binaries and such13:54
robbiethe1stand well, it leaves me more open for finding an /appropriate/ device in a couple of years13:54
DocScrutinizerNokia's standard response is "this is meant to become a end user device"13:55
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DocScrutinizerthere are a lot even in community who think aegis is a *good* thing - OMFG13:55
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, aegis is , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or
SpeedEvilAegis is a good thing - if under the users control.13:56
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: the concept of TC doesn't allow user control, there is not even a concept of user control13:57
SpeedEvilI absolutely want my phone to be a brick, if stolen.13:57
SpeedEvilSure it does.13:57
DocScrutinizer(well there is, but it's complex and never been implemented)13:57
SpeedEvilThere is nothing stopping the user from having the auth keys in principle.13:57
DocScrutinizerthere's a whole lot13:57
DocScrutinizerblocking this to ever happen13:57
Hurrianderp dee herp, why not encrypt the whole filesystem, add a hardware crypto accelerator, and leave the key somewhere in the SoC, and drop the key on, say a SMSCON command13:58
robbiethe1stSee, that's the thing. If I have the keys, it's a good thing. If I *don't* have the keys, it's unacceptable.13:58
DocScrutinizer1st: you can't use the same key on each device then13:58
SpeedEvilThat's not a hideous barrier - there is always IMEI13:58
DocScrutinizer2nd: you can't deploy the secretkey on device then13:58
HurrianSpeedEvil , reminds me a lot of Microsoft Palladium13:59
robbiethe1stYou can always have it generated on first boot, and have it encrypt the fs then13:59
Hurriannot protecting the user's content, it's protecting others' content13:59
robbiethe1stor actually, when you enable the option13:59
SpeedEvilThe secret key is the secret key in the chip XOR the IMEI or something.13:59
Hurrianoh, and what's so bad about openssl and random crap generation?13:59
SpeedEvilRea by the on-chip bootloader, for example13:59
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: nonsense14:00
Hurriannot like we wouldnt wait a few minutes while it reads from /dev/random14:00
robbiethe1stwhy not?14:00
robbiethe1stObviously Nokia'd never do it, but that's work, I think...14:00
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: haha14:00
SpeedEvilNot XOR, clearly14:00
Hurrianalso, doesnt look like a feature that would belong on a NSeries device14:01
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that ofers the key to malware, as IMEI can get read out easily14:01
SpeedEvilThe secret key would not be readable through the device14:01
Hurrianspeedevil, hmm, it would probably need to be remade everytime the os is reflashed14:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: please check how your ssh-keys work14:02
Hurrianeither that or everything passes thru the SoC for crypting everytime you flash14:03
Hurrianeither way, both should deter desoldering, mounting and dumping14:03
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: also for your usecase there are already solutions, they are called PAM and cryptofs14:04
SpeedEvilI've ot properly woken up14:04
SpeedEvilI want the device to be an actual brick, if it's stolen.14:05
SpeedEvilFlashing will not ressurect it.14:05
DocScrutinizerwell, that's technically unfeasible today14:05
lcukJaffa, re: nfc14:05
lcukdo you think WP will support it14:06
DocScrutinizeryou always can reflash via JTAG, or by any other laboratory means14:06
Hurrianhow do we prevent that from being abused?14:06
Hurriananyways, omap3 rom is ROM14:06
Hurrianunless you want to use an efuse and burn some crap14:06
Hurrianpermaflags "NEVER BOOT"14:07
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Sure it's not. SOC reads out IMEI in early boot, uses that and the 'nokia' key to verify the signature of the kernel/...14:07
infobotSpeedEvil meant: DocScrutinizer: Sure it's not. SOC reads out IMEI in early boot, uses that and the 'nokia' key to verify the signature of the bootloader/...14:08
DocScrutinizerthat's about what aegis does14:08
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Jaffalcuk: No idea, TBH14:12
MohammadAGI'll ask again since this chan was dead :P14:13
MohammadAGis there a way to go over 100% on lineout14:13
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: anyway if there'S a tool you can use to sign your new image to flash with your imei, then this tool will get abused and you are nowhere. Would require still Nokia has the only secret key and offers a individually signed kernel to you, only when you can authenticate14:13
SpeedEvila sticker with the key on the phone.14:14
SpeedEvilOr something14:14
SpeedEvilI don't mean IMEI specifically - some unique ID that can be read from the modem14:15
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that's exactly the point - it MUST NOT be readable anywhere14:16
DocScrutinizerTPM is all about NOT making key readable14:16
SpeedEvilYou are not reading a key that will allow it to boot.14:17
DocScrutinizerand this is the one property that causes most of TC headache14:18
SpeedEvilYou are readig a value which is hashed with the secret key to make the per-phone secret14:18
DocScrutinizerso it IS NO SECRET anymore14:18
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jacekowskiif it's accessible it can be reverse engineered14:19
jacekowskiesspecialy if you let user run it's own apps14:19
jacekowskias far as i understand aegis is just a software14:19
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: exactly14:19
DocScrutinizerno it isn't14:19
SpeedEviljacekowski: Sure - reverse engineered - which won't get you anything unless you can change the ID sent to the SoC in early boot14:20
DocScrutinizerit's a full implemetation of TC14:20
SpeedEvilanyway - going to sleep.14:20
SpeedEvilHorribly tired.14:20
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: simple as milk: nolo is signed, get your private nolo that checks for ser# of SoC (yes there is), and if it doesn't match you shutdown immediately14:22
DocScrutinizeras long as Nokia doesn't deploy NOLO without this feature, only your personal NOLO will work with that device14:23
DocScrutinizerif Nokia decides to deploy tools to build NOLO yourself, the whole purpose is flawed14:24
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DocScrutinizerNB this is in no way different to burning a individual rootcert to every device and sign each nolo with a different key14:25
DocScrutinizerit still relies on some secret kept smewhere, where YOU don't have access to it14:26
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DocScrutinizeras soon as you get access to the secret without strong authentication, your security is flawed as hackers can get the secret as well14:27
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DocScrutinizerthat's a basic operation principle of TC and chains-of-trust14:28
DocScrutinizerand let's assume one day somebody finds N900 xloader has a hash that satisfies N9 bootrom cert, you probably have found the single point to permanently break the whole aegis chain-of-trust, as N900 xloader does not check for NOLO signature14:32
scoobertronhas anyone been able to use their n900 as a dlna controller?  I have tried zhaan, but while it picks up on my dlna devices, it seems to only play one track at a time.14:32
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DocScrutinizerit was "just" an incredible amount of work then, to patch all the aegis functions in kernel14:33
SpeedEvilI'm assuming the secret is only published in a complete way on a sticker on the phone14:33
SpeedEvilOtherwise it never gets outside of the SOC14:33
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: there are two "secrets": the secret-key aka private-key that's needed to sign things and the also "secret" pubkey in TPM that is used to verify signatures14:35
DocScrutinizerthe secret property of pubkey is one of the most nasty properties of TPM14:36
MohammadAGno one?14:36
robbiethe1stCan't you create the pubkey from the privkey if you get it?14:37
* wazd 's going to pick up his N950!14:37
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: nope14:37
DocScrutinizergenerating a key pair is an atomic process14:37
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: read about the basics e.g. in arbitrary GPG tutorials14:38
robbiethe1stWell, this is why I really hate TC.14:39
scoobertronsimilarly, mediabox allows me to select a media renderer, but then nothing happens14:39
EvanescenceThe public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY AD88889DKk.... which command can addd and pubkey ?14:43
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: gpg --addkey14:43
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: j/k14:43
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DocScrutinizerEvanescence: sorry your question laks ALL context14:44
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: more detail. I searched on, find similar question, And I tried similar command in ubuntu apply on N900. but does not work14:44
infobotsomebody said question was If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: we can't see in our crystal ball what's been the command you tried when you got that error, so how could we know an answer?14:46
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Evanescenceoh, I'm copying that command...14:47
Evanescencegpg --keyserver --recv-key D6B6DB186A68F63714:47
DocScrutinizereven if we may anticipate you are talking about maemo5 and N900, we still don't see from the error what's been the procedure that triggered it14:47
Evanescencegpg -a --export D6B6DB186A68F637 | sudo apt-key add -14:47
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Evanescencesudo apt-key adv --keyserver --recv-keys D6B6DB186A68F63714:47
Hurrianpeople are dist-upgrading maemo 5 to ubuntu ARM?14:47
DocScrutinizerHurrian: HAHA sure14:48
Hurrianoh, on a side note, it'd be fun if we could use a N900 to flash another N900 using on-device flasher14:48
DocScrutinizerapt-get dist-upgrade Ubuntu-ARM14:48
Evanescenceno, I try to add PUBKEY from ubuntu's key server. because I do not know N900's key server14:49
DocScrutinizerHurrian: on a sidenote: I think that already has been done ;-P14:49
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: sorry, there seem to be waaay to many incorrect assumptions this statement is based on, so no way to give an answer14:51
Evanescencedoes not14:51
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DocScrutinizerEvanescence: I'm trying to coat my N900 with teflon as the frying of egs doesn't work14:51
Hurrianpretty disappointed that the N900 doesnt have IR transciever14:51
Hurrianwith it being TX-only, it's pretty obvious what it's for14:52
DocScrutinizerPLZ how can I coat my N900 with teflon???!??14:52
HurrianDocScrutinizer , obtain teflon nail coat14:53
Hurrianbrush all over device14:53
Hurriankernel-config limits 9001 900114:53
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: thanks :-D could you help Evanescence now please?14:54
Hurrianwhat exactly is he trying to do?14:54
DocScrutinizernobody knows14:54
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-22 13:47:22] <Evanescence> gpg -a --export D6B6DB186A68F637 | sudo apt-key add -14:55
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-22 13:47:34] <Evanescence> sudo apt-key adv --keyserver --recv-keys D6B6DB186A68F63714:55
DocScrutinizerif that helps :-D14:55
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DocScrutinizerI *could* suspect he's trying to apt-get install $random-ubuntu-pkg and gets a weird error from apt, equally weird to the intended action14:57
DocScrutinizerbut that's mere guesswork14:57
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DocScrutinizerI'm not even sure he's using maemo14:59
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: you're aware that it needs only ~4 components to build a IR-RX dongle to plug to AV?15:02
DocScrutinizerHurrian: though a proper USB IrDA stick plus h-e-n will serve you better15:03
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mtnbkrhey guys... I need some serious help. :(     had a corrupted photo on my N900 and it would not let me rsync past this one phone, nor see any of them when ssh'ed into the N900, but they would display in the photo app.   In a rush I FOOLISHLY followed this post (post #7) to repair the filesystem and now my phone just reboots over and over... How can I get my N900 out of this loop, f15:50
mtnbkrsck the /home partition  and NOT lose my photos?15:50
ccookeis the recovery boot working?15:51
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mtnbkrccooke: URL please. :)15:52
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ccookemtnbkr: can't find it, damn. and I don't use my n900 any more (the wife has it, since it's the last one with a workind usb port)15:56
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mtnbkrccooke: I am pretty much freaking out... I need my N900 to be working - use it for work - and I need the photos    what else can i do - without re-flashing it.   :(16:01
fluxaren't the photos in the emmc, which is safe in flashing?16:01
fluxof course, unless you reflash the emmc16:01
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ccookeokay. There's a recovery mode that boots to a shell. IIRC it's accessed via booting with.. d and s held down? Anyone remember?16:02
fluxI don't think it solves the original problem, though16:02
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DocScrutinizermtnbkr: flashing rootfs seems the way to go16:06
mtnbkrif I can get to a shell promt, I  can fsck th e/home partition, (where the photos live, no?16:06
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: If I flash ONLY rootfs, I will be safe (and my /home will not be touched right?16:06
DocScrutinizerccooke: there's no such thing16:06
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: right16:07
ccookeDocScrutinizer: damn, brain is misfiring.16:07
Trewasmtnbkr: photos are in MyDocs, though thumbnails are in home16:07
mtnbkrI am seriously nervous about this...16:07
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mtnbkrTrewas: right, but isn't MyDocs on the /home partition?16:08
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Trewasmtnbkr: no, it is a separate fat32 partition16:08
DocScrutinizermydocs is the 28MB VFAT partition16:08
DocScrutinizerGB even16:08
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mtnbkrahhh Ok...    I can not see mine now (currently rebooting over and over ) and I am in panic mode.    :)16:09
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DocScrutinizerit's like /home is a mount of ext3 2GB partition to / ubifs, and MyDocs is a mount of 28GB VFAT to /home/user/MyDocs ext316:09
TrewasMyDocs is quite easy to fsck manually, just umount and fsck -a /the/correct/dev... I have needed to do that a few times after it was read-only mounted because of unclean umount/shutdown16:09
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: as soon as your bootloop got fixed, plug the device to your PC in mass storage mode, and backup your whole MyDocs16:10
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DocScrutinizerthen you might want to run fsck against it, also from PC which is waaaay faste than on device16:11
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DocScrutinizer(never tested)16:12
mtnbkrright,,,    So I want to flash fisaco image, correct?
TrewasDocScrutinizer: naah, it only takes under a minute even on the device, vfat is quick to fsck because it doesn't do much16:12
DocScrutinizerTrewas: I heard other reports, which were about hours and hours16:13
TrewasDocScrutinizer: well, maybe if it is badly enough broken16:13
DocScrutinizerit depends on number of files you got there16:13
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DocScrutinizerand starting at an arbitrary number of files, fsck will enter swap-hell mode on device16:14
DocScrutinizeras the data structures are kept in RAM16:15
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DocScrutinizerat this moment things become really slow16:15
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DocScrutinizerlike by factor 100 slower16:15
merlin1991tell me about swap hell16:16
DocScrutinizerwhile the total time needed is also increased by the mere number of files to check16:16
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merlin1991last week I got a notebook back where the other company installed a vm image because they didn't want to give away there propertiary installers, genius guy there was wondering why everything sucked so hard and was uberslow, well he gave the vm 1500 mb ram while the machine only had 1gb physically, lol?16:17
DocScrutinizerso starting with a number of files on the checked volume that's dependent on your free RAM, you'll see a knee in performance when number of files goes beyond that limit16:17
DocScrutinizerand fsck starts to swap like mad16:18
DocScrutinizerNB swap is on same chip as MyDocs16:18
DocScrutinizerso it will *really* slow down, factor 100, factor 1000, up to your guess16:20
fluxit doesn't take a lot of memory, though16:20
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fluxI've used dosfsck with an environment with maybe 16M memory and many thousands files16:20
fluxbut iirc 100k was not manageable anymore :)16:21
DocScrutinizerdepends on directory tree complexity I guess16:21
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DocScrutinizerI bet walking the directory tree is a recursive function in fsck16:22
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DocScrutinizerI talked with werber almesberger about it, and iirc he claimed he implemented it in a non-optimized way ;-D16:24
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fluxyears ago, I modified dosfsck to be slightly more memory efficient (iirc basically packing the fields tighter), to be able to fsck more files16:25
fluxI don't remember the numbers, though16:25
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mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: phone flashed with the fiasco/combined... Most personalized settings and all installed programs lost, but photos still there. :)    Now to install gainroot, openssh, and grsync and a few others16:29
DocScrutinizerfirst backup your photos to PC!16:29
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: I will try, but it will not read past a certain photo that I took on Tuesday...16:30
DocScrutinizerso use dd to create an image on your PC, so you won't lose data when you try to fix it with fsck16:30
mtnbkryeah, will do16:31
DocScrutinizeryou could loopmount that image on your PC and do to it whatever you need to, to recover the data16:31
DocScrutinizerwhile you're basically free to mkfs.vfat on MyDocs then, if fsck.vfat doesn't fix the issue16:33
DocScrutinizeror simply flash VANILLA :-)16:33
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wazdTadaaa :)16:34
DocScrutinizerwazd: :-D ?16:34
wazdMe haz n950 too :)16:35
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DocScrutinizerwazd: \o/16:36
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wazdThe keyboard is just awesome16:41
wazdOh my16:41
SpeedEvil:) :(16:41
lcukwazd, it is nice isn't it?!16:42
wazdThe screen is 16bpp, I will not comment on that :)16:43
lcukwazd, isn't that more the graphics mode?16:43
wazdProfiles switch is really smart16:43
lcukyou mean volume thingie?16:44
DocScrutinizersed -i "s/c-ts/r-ts/; s/harmattan&aegis/maemo5/" N950 && echo "perfect device"16:44
* lcuk likes that too16:44
wazdLcuk: maybe, but still :)16:44
DocScrutinizerI'd not even call this "profile switching"16:45
DocScrutinizerin my book that's no profiles at all16:45
wazdDocScrutinizer: well, yes16:45
wazdDoc: who cares :D16:46
DocScrutinizerwell, I do16:46
DocScrutinizerI need more than just normal and silent "profile"16:46
wazdI like the E series total customization16:47
DocScrutinizerI have a special profile for MP3 player mode, for home stereo, for example on N90016:47
jaskaso, how bad is aegis, cant use dialer with modified stuff?16:47
jaskaok, guess i should console myself with that then as i dont have a n95016:48
jaskathats probably worst hitlerware yet seen on a smartphone?:)16:48
DocScrutinizerthe promised option to completely switch off aegis isn't there16:48
SpeedEviljaska: Err - no.16:48
SpeedEviljaska: Apple/... phones are (by intent) locked down way more)16:48
jaskayes, but the lockdown isnt enforced16:49
jaskaby tpm junk with a trust chain16:49
lcukDocScrutinizer, I thought the thing was being able to boot a non-aegis firmware16:49
lcukie choose, aegis or normal16:50
lcukand from what I gather the n950-ce is coming along16:50
DocScrutinizerlcuk: stskeeps is about to make that happen - for now he has "some issues to fix" with it16:50
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DocScrutinizerand "being able to boot non aegis firmware" doesn't mean you can disable aegis in harmattan16:50
DocScrutinizerit just means you *should* be able to boot meegoCE / SHR / whatever16:51
lcukDocScrutinizer, yes, but where is it documented that aegis will be able to be disabled completely from within the normal harmattan os?16:52
DocScrutinizerobviously for multiboot the meegoCE crew needs moslo which still isn't provided by Nokia16:52
DocScrutinizerlcuk: nfc16:52
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: where is it documented your car can use arbitrary gasoline fuel and doesn't require the one from your car manufacturer?16:53
DocScrutinizeraiui on meegoconf the "ommunity" was told "yes, you can switch off aegis"16:54
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lcukDocScrutinizer, slide 516:55
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lcuk"Nokia Signed SW Image" *OR* "Unsigned SW Image"16:56
DocScrutinizerso what?16:56
DocScrutinizerhow's that related to "yes, you can switch off aegis"?16:57
DocScrutinizerthis is a "statement" that suggests you should be able to load meegoCE, nothing more16:58
DocScrutinizerand as mentioned above stskeeps is facing "issues" even with this, aiui16:59
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DocScrutinizermultiboot is not a part of this statement, obviously16:59
DocScrutinizeras it needs moslo16:59
wazdThere's no Moscow in Harmattan timezones :P16:59
jaskanuke kreml!17:00
wazdThat explains everything :)17:00
Sicelolol.. Mbabane included?17:00
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: note that even Nokia employees agree on developer mode being way too restrictive, and there's no use in a developer mode that's not completely open, as for testing with aegis we always have aegis-enabled "normal" mode17:03
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Arkenoihow can i log in to my nokia messaging account via web? when i try to i either get nowhere or to my ovi mail account17:04
DocScrutinizerthe concept of TC being "open" mode fornids running of apps that require "trusted" aka "normal" mode. What aegis does is *bricking* the system and enforcing a reflash when you dare to edit in situ a python script you installed via SDK17:05
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: isn't ovi == nokia, for messaging?17:06
TermanaHeil Aegis17:07
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: two different things: ovi mail == yet another stupid imap mailbox, nokia messaging == proprietary push email protocol that allows instant delivery from third-party email providers17:08
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Arkenoii'd even say two completely *unrelated* things, so suggesting user to log in to ovi mail when he needs nokia messaging is worse than stupid17:09
Arkenoibut that's what happens when i try to enter or
DocScrutinizermuch confusion about all this, at Nokia. Last impression it gave me was all is finally yahoo mail17:11
wazdI was wrong, there's Moscow :)17:11
DocScrutinizerwazd: thought as much17:11
Arkenoiovi mail, yes. i do not give a flying fsck to ovi mail, i need nokia messaging.17:11
wazdArkenoi: isn't it a universal account like google has?17:12
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* DocScrutinizer seems to recall a a nokia-developer monthly or similar announcement where it was written "Nokia mail now is Yahoo mail"17:14
Arkenoiwazd: before they messed the whole thing up, i logged in via web interface, attached extra mailboxes and then all of those are in modest under nokia messaging folder. damn ugly (why should i care about transport protocol, damn, what an idiot could imagine that it is information so important for user that mailboxes should be grouped by transport in modest!) , but it is the best thing possible.17:15
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: KISS test: create a new Nokia-mail account17:15
RST38hArkenoi: pvanhoof, no?17:15
Arkenoii do not care about "nokia mail" whatever they call the service that is yet another imap mailbox, is it yahoo driven or not17:15
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Arkenoii do not even care about my address17:16
Arkenoii need push email for several mailboxes that have nothing to do with nokia17:16
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: sorry then17:17
Siceloindeed DocScrutinizer. ovi mail  even opens up with a yahoo interface now17:17
Arkenoithe most ridiculous thing is that it works17:17
Arkenoii just cannot change any settings because it is done via web site17:17
Arkenoii cannot add or remove mailboxes17:18
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DocScrutinizeropen a ticket17:19
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: btw >>proprietary push email protocol that allows instant delivery from third-party email providers<< can not be correct, as the "proprietary protocol" had to be supported by $random-third-party which quite obviously isn't going to happen17:22
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DocScrutinizeronly way to make this happen is when your pushmail provider is polling your $random-mail-accounts and then aggregates and delivers vie the proprietary protocol17:24
Sicelothat's how it works. a friend is using it.17:25
DocScrutinizermeans you have to pass your $random-account credentials to Nokia so they can poll your e.g. account. Now Nokia migrated all nokia-messaging to yahoo aiui, and I'm rather sure I wouldn't like that move if I ever had used Nokia's mail-aggregation function. Yahoo no way ever gets any password for $random accounts from me17:27
pvanhoofRST38h, sorry?17:28
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pvanhoofRST38h, Arkenoi sorry, i was not involved in the UI decisions made for modest, only in the code that talks with the IMAP and POP servers17:29
RST38hpvanhoof: Arkanoid has been asking about Modest and why its UI is arranged this way17:29
pvanhoofsure, i had no hand in UI decisions about modest17:30
* RST38h finally tried fMSX on a real physical Android device. Well, it works...17:30
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: and last time I tried to access my Nokia/Ovi mail settings I got trapped in a yahoo page with no reasonable way out, so I guess there's still quite some borkage to b found introduced by the nokia->yahoo migration (though I can't really test for pushmail as I always refused to use it, for reasons elaborated above). So your best bet is to open a ticket against the issue, at nokia bugtracker, or mail support@nokia17:38
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GAN900Jaffa, pong?18:44
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mgedminthe broken imgur integration package annoys19:22
mgedminwhere's the maintainer hiding?19:22
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GAN900When Nokia lobotomizes a browser they don't do it by half-measure, do they?20:12
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casketizerNokia doesn't like browsers. just look at s60v3/5 worst browsers @ earth20:17
ShadowJKthe one they licensed before that was worse :-)20:22
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casketizerdoes S^3 still have the same browser as s60v5 ?20:25
casketizeri never bothered to try any S^3 device...20:25
ShadowJKit's not like the browser behaves the same way on any two devices, they spend shitloads of money on "differentiation" ;-)20:27
casketizeri found it pretty identical on the s60v5 devices i tried20:27
casketizereven on a samsung one20:27
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casketizerif there hadnt been opera it would have been grim20:30
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, the WebKit browser in Harmattan is useless.20:34
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GeneralAntillesI shudder to think what having to use Firefox as the primary browser is going to be like.20:35
ShadowJKI get the image of a kid playing with legos building a castle, and just when it gets to a recognizable state the kid has a fit of rage and knocks down his half built castle and starts over20:35
casketizeri really dont get it why they dropped microb20:36
ShadowJKI haven't heard any better theory than mine20:37
ShadowJK(They couldn't make mozilla stop stealing focus and closing the vkbd)20:37
casketizerafter countless fail browsers they do it right and then drop it...20:37
GeneralAntillesBecause they wanted browser coherence across Symbian and MeeGo.20:37
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casketizerGeneralAntilles, have you tried FFx mobile 5?20:38
GeneralAntillesThe Harmattan package isn't available.20:38
casketizerits pretty decent on android and usable on maemo20:38
casketizerif u can live without system integration (mailto support etc) the maemo qt version is pretty good and fast20:40
ShadowJKFor some reason the fennec release versions eat half hte memory of the alpha versions20:40
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casketizerv5 release is pretty good, i was surprised20:40
ShadowJKcrashes too much to be usable for me20:42
ShadowJKspeedwise it's nearly there20:42
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casketizerdid u wipe profile be4 u install 5?20:43
casketizerthat stopped the random crashes for me20:43
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ShapeshifterI don't see what everybody likes about microb. it's terribly slow and... it's terribly slow. that's pretty much it. unbearably slow in every regard. starting up, being able to enter a url (I hate how it always clears the url I was already typing after starting it), loading pages...22:14
mgedminbasically, the N900 is not powerful enough22:15
Shapeshifteropera is so much faster22:15
mgedminalthough it's interesting to hear existence proofs about other software managing to be faster22:15
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, Opera isn't native.22:15
mgedminI once tried fennec and found microB to be much faster22:15
GeneralAntillesNative widgets22:15
Shapeshiftermgedmin: yes, fennec is even slower.22:16
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: is this a bad thing, or does it even matter?22:16
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: if native widgets are the reason microb is slow, then away with them...22:20
wmaronenative widgets are not why microb is slow22:24
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wmaroneif anything, it's memory usage22:24
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, bothers me.22:27
GeneralAntillesI want native browsers.22:27
GeneralAntillesMicroB still feels the smoothest out of all of them for me.22:27
GeneralAntilleseven though it's slow22:27
GeneralAntillesand has the worst JS engine in existence.22:27
mgedminhow native is MicroB, actually?22:27
mgedminit's based on geck22:27
mgedminI thought it reimplemented all the widgets22:27
mgedminin XUL or whatnot22:27
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casketizerGeneralAntilles, is the harmattan browser as bad as the symbian browser ?22:28
mgedminharmattan browser is semi-bad22:31
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mgedminas in: feels unfinished22:31
mgedminno text selection, e.g.22:31
mgedmincrashes when you try to resize an image22:32
mgedminno ssl22:32
mgedminor was it no self-signed ssl?22:32
mgedminon the other hand it feels nice and snappy22:32
mgedmine.g. resize/relayout when you switch from portrait to landscape or vice versa is fast22:32
fralsi wonder if it feels unfinished ebcause you are on *PREPRODUCTION* software22:32
mgedminscrolling is very smooth22:32
mgedminfrals, exactly!22:33
mgedminoh crap!22:33
mgedminI just realized one thing22:33
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mgedminharmattan browser doesn't let you scroll using the hardware arrow keys22:33
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mgedminand since n9 doesn't have them, this bug might not get fixed in the final firmware22:33
casketizeraka feature22:34
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mgedminhm, actually...22:34
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mgedminiirc I _could_ scroll with arrow keys in Google Reader (non-mobile), and _couldn't_ scroll with touch in those nested divs with text-overflow: scroll (I assume?)22:35
mgedminbut on Google Reader (mobile) it's the other way around: touch scrolling works, keys don't22:35
mgedmineither way, I'm unhappy22:35
mgedmina bit22:35
sp3000the less mobile greader may well be implementing it itself22:36
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JaffaEvening all22:39
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lcuk\o Jaffa22:43
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* Jaffa offs. Back soon(ish)22:44
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vi__MohammadAG: yo22:44
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mgedminhehe the 770's foldable stand fits a n950 perfectly22:48
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ShadowJKThe stall when entering URL into microb is shared with most mozilla things the past 5-10 years22:57
ShadowJKgot worse once they switched to sqlite too22:57
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GeneralAntillesWhat's the technical term for grayed out text that appears in a text entry field to tell you what the field's for?23:45
MohammadAGplaceholder text23:46
vdvisn't it posible to smooth scroll in fbreader with volume buttons?23:50
GeneralAntillesIt wouldn't render fast enough anyway.23:51
vdvvolume buttons only change to the next/prev page here23:51
vdvi just mean line by line scrolling23:51
lcukGeneralAntilles, will the n950 build allow this23:51
lcukbecause I know on some platforms fbreader has smooth scrolling23:51
GeneralAntilleslcuk, libzlib is really slow.23:51
GeneralAntillesDon't know.23:51
GeneralAntillesYeah, Android23:52
lcukyeah we know issues of speed23:52
GeneralAntillesBut I think their implementation is a little different.23:52
* GeneralAntilles is the wrong person to ask.23:52
lcukyeah I know23:52
vdvi.e. not just show next/prev. page, but really scroll23:52
lcukdifferent source path23:52
GeneralAntillesvdv, change the scroll amount in setting.23:52
lcukvdv, yes this discussion has raged since at least n8x0 days23:52
vdvi can scroll with arrow buttons on keyboard for example23:52
lcuki came from platform with isolo and direct autoscrolling etc23:53
lcukGeneralAntilles, i bet now an autoscroller using *normal* qt libraries will be feasible23:53
vdvi just don't understand why scrolling with keyboard arrow buttons work, but with volume buttons not23:54
GeneralAntilleslcuk, be nice to have a real native reader.23:54
vdvvolume buttons just change the page23:54
lcukGeneralAntilles, sure it would23:54
lcukbut I get the itch to do book reading only rarely and qt is still difficult to wrangle23:55
vdvwith touchscreen i get page change too23:56
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