IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-07-15

JaffaMohammadAG: DocScrutinizer: I got a DC-6 off ebay for 3gbp. Works with N950 and N90000:00
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: Nokia's compatibility list agrees for N900, and I tested for 100% compatibility wrt charging between N900 and N95000:01
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moo00:02
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piggzwhat does hildon do if an icon in /usr/share/pixmaps for an app is 64x64?00:04
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piggzsorry, ignore me, i installed whe wrong icon00:05
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VickaoI enabled and then disabled device lock long ago and now  I want to enable it again. I don't remember current password what should I do? :/00:06
VickaoWill this work?
jacekowskiVickao: install code_reset00:07
jacekowskiVickao: and run it from terminal00:07
jacekowskiit resets code to default 1234500:08
Vickaojacekowski: Ah thank you!00:09
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DocScrutinizer(or it kills your device ;-D)00:09
VickaoWait what? :D00:09
DocScrutinizernah, probably not00:09
jacekowskiVickao: it's commandline tool00:09
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: are you writing to NAND CAL directly?00:10
DocScrutinizerVickao: forget my rant00:10
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VickaoDocScrutinizer: hehe, okay.00:12
Vickaojacekowski: I will try it soon and let you know, thank you.00:12
jacekowskiVickao: after you install it run /bin/code_reset and it should say code changed00:12
jacekowskiVickao: and you're done00:12
DocScrutinizerall hail to jacekowski00:12
Vickaojacekowski: ah nice! okay.00:13
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jacekowskithat instruction will work mostly as well00:14
jacekowskibut way it's reading hash from cal will fail sometimes00:14
jacekowskibut that's only after you allocate all unused blocks in cal00:14
jacekowskiand it's starts freeing them up00:14
DocScrutinizerwhat for does it read a hash from CAL?00:14
jacekowskii'm talking about this00:15
DocScrutinizerthat one00:15
Vickaojacekowski: Works well mate, thanks a bunch. I thought I would have to reflash!00:19
jacekowskireflash wouldn't help00:19
jacekowskical is not flashed00:19
VickaoWhat's cal? ^00:19
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jacekowskispecial place where all good stuff is stored00:20
jacekowskiand bad stuff00:20
jacekowskiincluding stuff that if it's broken your phone will be just a brick00:20
jacekowskias nolo will refuse to boot00:20
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VickaoGreat, I guess you took your measures while developing this code-reset progie.00:20
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* Sicelo checks out code-rest, for future use 00:26
DocScrutinizer51I prefer the ripper way :-P00:28
JaffaYay, my replacement E7's sold on its "buy it now" price.00:32
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javispedroI seem not to be able to use the dsp accelerated h264 decoder on the n950, not even with the stock app.00:40
javispedrothat, or encoding is faster than decoding =)00:41
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Mecehey where does one discuss n950 issues? here?01:38
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ScifigMece,  #harmattan01:39
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w1z4rdSo, is there anywhere that I can get a maemo .img?01:41
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SpeedEvil;range=6m - ow01:46
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SpeedEvilLooking at the graph - what happened Jun 7?01:47
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w1z4rdSpeedEvil, Martians01:48
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w1z4rdSpeedEvil, wait, no, they were the 6th.. the 7th was Venusians.01:49
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GeneralAntillesHrm, transferring through Leipzig.02:08
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, I like the Feb 11th plummet.02:08
GeneralAntillesWho couldn't see that coming. . . .02:08
* SpeedEvil wishes he'd sold nokia short on feb.02:09
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GeneralAntillesI got mine at about $1302:15
ScifigCan anyone help me with dpkg-source syntax for excluding files/folders?02:15
Scifigor dpkg-buildpackage which calls dpkg-source anyway. I am having trouble with the perl regex.02:17
mgedminwhat's the regex?02:18
Scifigmgedmin, Regular expression. Wildcardish syntax. In this case used to exclude files/folders from the source tar.02:20
mgedminI was not asking for a definition of a regex02:20
mgedminI was asking to see the regex you're having trouble with02:20
mgedminor don't you have one yet?02:20
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ScifigSorry - (^*\.(usr|log)$)|(^\.git*)|(^\.(mocs|objs)$)|(OfflineStorage)|(Makefile). This is what I am using02:20
* mgedmin usually uses dpkg-buildpackage -i and trusts that to take care of all the default boring stuff such as .git02:21
mgedminok, three things look wrong to me here02:22
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mgedminfirst: ^* ought to be ^.*02:22
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mgedminnext, git* ought to be git.* or just git, since you don't have a terminating $ in that branch02:23
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mgedminand last, ^\.(mocs... ought to be ^.*\.(mocs...02:23
mgedmininstead of building a monster-regexp can't you pass -Ipattern several times?02:24
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mgedmindpkg-buildpackage -I '.git*' -I '*.mocs' -I '*.objs' -I Makefile -I OfflineStorage -I '*.usr' -I '*.log'02:24
* mgedmin reads the man page of dpkg-source02:25
ScifigI was hoping that I can save that one monster expression in source/local-options file. But will try -I pattern02:25
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Scifigmgedmin, -I works great. I tested just "-i" again without any regex. It did not exclude .git folder.02:30
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ScifigI'll stop breaking my head over regex then. Guess something is broken with dpkg-source on scratchbox02:31
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mgedminwell, -i is matched against the full relative pathname02:35
mgedminmaybe it ends up being ./.git instead of just .git02:35
mgedminso maybe (^(.*/)?.git.*$) would work02:35
mgedminbut I think multiple -I patterns are clearer and easier to maintain02:36
ScifigAgree, I am sure even I can't understand that regex tomorrow. So I just saved the command with -Is into a .sh file. Much easier now02:37
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GeneralAntillesmgedmin, get your N950?02:39
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DocScrutinizerregex FTW and for fun ;-P02:46
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: got yours?02:46
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, tomorrow.02:52
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DocScrutinizerwelcome to the moaning club of c-ts haters then ;-)02:54
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TermanaGood morning03:09
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ChoomI hope they don't replace the touchscreen in the final product because of you03:15
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derfHardware decisions were likely made 2 years ago.03:19
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mitszxwhere does h-e-n mount by default ?03:51
mitszx /mnt ? /media ?03:52
mitszxi cant seem to find the folder :S03:53
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mitszxi doubt its mounting to any folder anyways03:53
mitszxseems like i need to create the folder so it can mount to it or something of such03:54
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mitszxany suggestions people?03:55
mitszxwhere are all the geeks today?03:57
mitszxseems like some bot idling lobby today03:57
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sidif i remember right it does not mount04:12
sidmaybe at /media04:12
siddf -h; fdisk -.l04:12
siddf -h; fdisk -l04:12
sidcheck your dmesg04:13
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dm8tbrmuten gorgen07:36
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crashanddiesid_: why df and fdisk? How about just using "mount"08:16
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mgedminGeneralAntilles, yep, got it yesterday10:33
mgedminthe (capacitative) touchscreen is awesome, much better than the one on a N90010:34
mgedminI used to hate scrolling because I would usually not push hard enough10:34
mgedminnow a light touch is sufficien10:34
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mgedminprecise aiming (for, e.g., text selection) can be tricky, though10:36
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crashanddieBill Maher interviews a senator about religion, and Bill Maher tells him "It worries me that people who are running the country, people like you Senator, believe in a talking snake", to which the senator replies "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be a Senator, though", with a big smile... Bill Maher is stumped, and slowly the senator realises what he just said, and his smile fades away.10:49
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mgedminso, the car charger that my n900 didn't detect?10:50
crashanddieruskie ^10:50
mgedminn950 sees it as a PC -- gives me the usual "mass storage/SDK/whatever" menu, then pops up a notification saying "not enough current for charging"10:50
mgedminbut then charges anyway10:50
mgedminthe battery screen in Settings estimates 14 thousand minutes until full charge10:51
ruskieso 10 days?10:51
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ruskieI think it's trying to pull the current but it's just not there hence the message10:51
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MohammadAGgrr, N950 still is a new order :/11:26
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VenemoMohammadAG :(11:27
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paulymy n900 is on ebay and its bid is at $99 usd 6 hours left!11:53
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lbthmmm ... so my N900 has an rt-com SIP account .... any idea where it keeps the password ?12:30
mgedminhm... gconf?12:31
MohammadAGlbt, I'd guess same place telepathy stores passwords12:32
lbtOK - don't suppose you have a rough path ?12:32
MohammadAGnope, sorry :(12:33
lbtthanks ... gave me the google-fu : they're in /home/user/.rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg12:36
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vi__yo yo12:37
vi__how do I query the current volume on the n900 from cli?12:37
vi__there doesnt appear to be a gconf2 setting or dbus call12:37
Tronicvi__: alsactl?12:37
vi__however isn't the audio done by pulse?12:38
TronicYes, but it still uses ALSA volume controls.12:38
Tronic(and ALSA for actual audio output as Pulseaudio itself has no device drivers)12:38
MohammadAGvi__, you sure about the lack of a dbus call?12:39
vi__so if I turn volume down on alsa then I will be able to turn it up with hardware volume keys?12:39
vi__MohammadAG: yes12:39
vi__MohammadAG: there is a set, but no get!12:39
MohammadAGvi__, wrong12:39
mgedminvi__, you can get the current n900 volume with gconftool -g /apps/osso/sound/master_volume12:39
TronicYou could also get the volume via Pulseaudio API but I don't know if there are any CLI tools for that.12:40
MohammadAGdbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer string:volume12:40
MohammadAGmgedmin, No value set for `/apps/osso/sound/master_volume'12:41
MohammadAGdbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer string:volume | grep uint32 | awk '{print $3}'12:42
mgedminI retyped that from a shell script on my n900 that used to work12:42
MohammadAGfor the numerical value (without dbus reply strings)12:42
mgedmindunno, maybe firmware updates got rid of the gconf volume thingy12:42
MohammadAGdbus works as well I guess12:42
vi__MohammadAG: sweet, sick sonovvabitch12:43
vi__FWIW I am making a mute script, however I need to store the current volume before I set to 0 so I can restore it after12:44
vi__MohammadAG: where did you find that info12:44
vi__MohammadAG: I didnt see it on the api page12:45
MohammadAGvi__, I wrote an open mediaplayer :P12:45
mgedminisn't there a separate mute switch?12:45
MohammadAGjust set volume to 012:46
mgedminor perhaps negative numbers to indicate muteness without losing the old volume?12:46
MohammadAGdon't think so12:46
mgedminlinux audio apis generally let you mute/unmute and remember the previous volume setting when you unmute...12:46
mgedminmaybe the n900 is special12:46
MohammadAGwould be useful tbh12:46
vi__mgedmin: youd think so...12:46
keriothe n900 is speshul!12:46
vi__special needs12:47
vi__dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call
vi__fw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.noki12:47
vi__a.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume | awk '{print $3}' | tail12:47
vi__bah xterm, shuvving newlines wherever the fk it feels like12:48
MohammadAGFYI, for calls you might need PA API + sink-input-by-media-role:phone12:48
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lbtMohammadAG:  mgedmin : nope. 1.1 removed cleartext pwd from the config... however : ... mc-tool show <account>    will show the passwd12:54
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vdvinspite i have specified "user" in /etc/fstab for an entry, i still can't mount my microsd as normal user, how can enable mounting as user?13:50
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jonwilDo you have the right permissions on the microsd device node?13:54
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DocScrutinizervdv: etc/fstab is cruft14:01
DocScrutinizervdv: look at your "specified user" in there after next boot! ;-D fstab is autogeneretad at boot, it's the initscripts that actually do all the mounts - hardcoded14:02
DocScrutinizerso fstab is just a better mounttab14:02
DocScrutinizervdv: alsi see very first line in /etc/fstab - should make you wonder...14:03
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vdvDocScrutinizer, ah14:05
vdvhere's another related problem14:06
DocScrutinizerfor mounting "as user" probably etc/sudoers.d/* is your friend14:06
vdvi've changed sudoers14:06
vdvand i can mount as user now14:06
vdvbut still don't have write permissions14:06
DocScrutinizerNEVER!!!! NEVER EVER change/edit /etc/sudoers!14:06
vdvwhy? :)14:06
DocScrutinizeryou'll risk a reflash14:07
DocScrutinizeruse /etc/sudoers.d/<yourfilename> and update-sudoers cmd14:07
vdvwhat i've added is "user ALL = NOPASSWD: /bin/mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard"14:07
vdvi'll remove that line then14:07
DocScrutinizervdv: /etc/sudoers also is "autogenerated"14:08
vdv### Automatically added by update-sudoers start ###14:08
DocScrutinizerlook into update-sudoers14:08
DocScrutinizerit's a script afaik14:08
DocScrutinizeryou'll understand#14:08
gomiamDocScrutinizer: what on earth is visudo for then?14:08
DocScrutinizergood question14:09
vdvyes, i've edited with visudo14:09
gomiambecause it has worked very well for me14:09
gomiamthen again I don't remember ever using update-sudoers14:09
DocScrutinizeranyway the sudo we got doesn't support #includedir14:09
DocScrutinizerso they implemented sudoers.d/ via update-sudoers14:10
DocScrutinizerand update-sudoers is run at every boot14:10
vdvDocScrutinizer, so i created a new file under sudoers.d/ ?14:10
DocScrutinizerso if you mess up sth in etc/sudoers , odds are you're up for a bootloop next boot14:10
DocScrutinizervdv: yes14:11
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MohammadAG vdv DocScrutinizer14:13
vdvsudoers updated, mount as user is working14:13
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I asked for a tracking number, and my ticket was closed without a reply to it :/14:13
MohammadAGhiemanshu, at least yours shipped14:15
vdvso, i have to check now whether my sudoers contains duplicated entries?14:15
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: I had to email them asking it to be shipped ASAP so it isn't stuck when I am moving houses, but MEH, its a friday, and I at the new place on monday14:15
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vdvhow must be mount command look like, so that after mounting as user, it will be possible also to write on mounted device?14:19
vdvsimply "sudo mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard" doesn't work14:19
vdv /sdcard is still owned by root14:20
vdvand others have only read on that dir14:20
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deimossudo -t vfat mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard14:21
vdvit's ext314:21
deimossudo -t ext3 mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard14:21
vdvext3 with mount is default, no?14:22
MohammadAGmount -o uid=29999,gid=29999,utf8,dmask=027,fmask=137 /dev/$partitions /media/$partitions14:22
deimosyou alway put -t arg14:22
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MohammadAGis a way14:22
vdvah, ok14:22
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vdvthanks :)14:24
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: o/14:38
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jonwil I think I am getting closer to figuring out the connui stuff at last, just need to keep playing with it a bit15:03
jonwilI think I got about 3 or 4 functions left to figure out now15:04
jonwilBeing able to debug inside hildon-home with gdb has really helped :P15:04
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: :-D15:12
DocScrutinizerand hi15:12
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jonwilwith luck I should soon have a clone of :)15:13
DocScrutinizerI wonder how this little adventure (debug hildon-home rsp the equiv) would end on harmattan&aegis15:13
DocScrutinizerjonwil: you're da king15:13
jonwilcan you even get a GDB binary for Harmattan?15:13
DocScrutinizerI think so15:14
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# apt-cache search gdb15:14
DocScrutinizergdb - The GNU Debugger15:14
DocScrutinizergdbserver - The GNU Debugger (remote server)15:14
jonwilok, nice :)15:14
DocScrutinizeryeah, but:15:15
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# apt-cache search bash15:15
* jonwil wonders if the new IDA he downloaded today will help with reverse engineering any of this stuff :P15:17
mgedminin a typical nokia fashion, I had to accept a licence that said "NO REVERSE ENGINEERING OF ANY KIND YOU NAUGHTY PERSON" in order to get a n95015:18
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fluxthose exact words? cool ;-)15:19
mgedminI'm paraphrasing15:19
mgedminand it's probably illegal in Europe and thus void15:19
DocScrutinizeryes, it is15:19
mgedminas long as I'm reverse-engineering for interoperability purposes15:19
DocScrutinizervid in EU15:19
mgedminbut meh15:19
DocScrutinizerthough only for sw you *bought*15:20
nid0well, its not illegal at all15:20
mgedminif nokia wants to erode their goodwill, who am I to argue?15:20
nid0because you didnt buy the n95015:20
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jonwilI suspect Nokia arent going to care about reverse engineering as long as the reverse engineering doesn't hurt Nokia in some way15:20
nid0if theyre lending you one, they can impose whatever the hell restrictions they want15:20
jonwilThat reminds me, I am going to create a wiki page listing/linking to all the resources out there for source code and things from the N90015:21
jonwilso linking to stuff I have found15:21
jonwilAs well as anything I posted to the mailing list (via the archives)15:21
DocScrutinizerjonwil: friggin useful, go for it15:22
jonwilwell anything I can remember the location of :)15:22
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jonwilThen I will post to the mailing list telling people about the wiki page15:22
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jonwiland asking for them to throw more information onto it15:22
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jonwilLets call the page "N900 resources"15:25
jonwilunless anyone has any other ideas15:25
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DocScrutinizerN900 xeno-resources15:30
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GAN900Still stuck in the UK15:39
GAN900what a crock15:39
ScifigGAN900, Same here "Processed at EAST MIDLANDS".15:42
GAN900One giant wind up15:43
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nid0maybe ill have to go rob the hell out of that dhl warehouse15:51
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jonwilok, so source code I have found so far:16:09
jonwilMaemo and MeeGo gitorius repos16:09
jonwilCommunity SSU repo16:09
jonwilmaemo5 certman git repo16:09
jonwilMaemo Fremantle pool repos (i.e. all of /free/*)16:10
jonwilAnyone know of anything else source code related I should know of?16:10
jonwilusing to identify possibly interesting packages in Fremantle or Harmattan SDKs16:11
jonwilor pools or repos16:11
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fiferboyGAN900: Mine has moved on. East Midlands to London, sorting, left London (5 AM?)16:16
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GeneralAntillesWaiting until Monday.16:18
GeneralAntillesMakes me really dislike Nokia this weekend.16:18
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: You get all weekend to write code with no distractions16:19
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, ^16:22
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fiferboyThey mispelled MeeGo...16:26
ShadowJK"Do not leave the battery connected to a charger for longer than a week, since overcharging may shorten its lifetime."16:26
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GeneralAntillesBattery replacement doesn't look too terrible.16:27
DocScrutinizernow there's actually hope for schematics any time soon16:28
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DocScrutinizerthough ""solder components info is not available currently and will be updated later""16:28
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Where is the N950 service manual?16:29
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* DocScrutinizer ponders email-pestering to send him schematics ;-D16:31
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javispedrotoday the n950 failed spectacularly =)16:32
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, dude what?16:32
DocScrutinizerfiferboy: won't appear any time soon. Remember? "no warranty" - so no need to train service point technicians16:32
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, what?16:32
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GeneralAntilles is where it came from.16:32
ShadowJKIt's behind the screen, a flex cable, and a few "do not use again" components? :-)16:32
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javispedroIt missed an SMS, didn't ring when someone called, the call-ui window was empty, added the wrong number to the missed calls list, failed to kill an outgoing call, and hung during poweroff =)16:33
DocScrutinizerthis N9 L1&2 SM leaking indicates Nokia is about to prepare their service points for N9 rollout16:33
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, as in: not a phone-ending failure.16:33
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* javispedro puts sim back on n90016:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: epic16:34
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GeneralAntillesMy N900 misses SMSes all the time.16:34
ShadowJKHm, I wonder. Since the battery isn't integrated and not user replaceable, can it still be considered a consumable or does Nokia have to give it 2 year warranty? :-)16:34
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fiferboyDocScrutinizer: Good point16:35
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* ShadowJK has never really missed anything with N90016:35
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: clearly it's under a 2 year warranty then16:36
javispedrowe want new firmware!!16:36
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DocScrutinizerwe want javispedro and GeneralAntilles on #harmattan ;-P16:37
GeneralAntillesNo more channels.16:37
javispedrosadly, we're losing the "no more channels" war already.16:38
DocScrutinizerdrop #meego-handset for it! ;-)16:38
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, and at what threshold is the battery considered spent? :-)16:42
ShadowJKthe cpf peopel  use 85% or something as threshold, iirc16:42
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ShadowJKand the RC crowd... when it gets pregnant or blows up16:42
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jonwilhmmm, anyone got a suggestion as to what I should call the section in this info page for "stuff thats in the fremantle SDK that is worth downloading but that you might not have known about"16:43
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jonwilbut more concise16:43
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: good point - I guess bme decides on that, you got a display "Battery status: GOOD" in settings16:44
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, but we can't surrender!16:45
DocScrutinizerNFC what it needs to make this a "POOR"16:45
ShadowJKsince when has bme been able to make any sensible decisions16:45
DocScrutinizernever ever16:45
javispedrowe do not have to drop the maemo brand even if Nokia did!16:46
DocScrutinizerreply question: since when have service point technicians ever been educated to make any sensible decisions?16:46
nid0a suprisingly large amount of the n9 is listed by the service manual as having to be thrown away and replaced just to take it apart16:47
javispedronid0: as usual..16:47
ShadowJK1.5 years ago when the local-ish (50km) service point said F U to Nokia and ceased being a Nokia service point?16:47
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: nobody is going to "drop the maemo brand"16:47
javispedrordate: adjust local clock by 31449601.134596 seconds (lol)16:48
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: au contraire I guess #harmattan will join back to #maemo as soon as market get soaked with N916:48
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DocScrutinizerfor now it's highly disturbing to kill the N900 discussions here with harmattan/N950 noise16:48
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DocScrutinizerso let's keep this chan for N900 fremantle just a few months longer, until it again suffers the diablo->fremantle aka N900 effect16:50
RST38hSo, any news about those DDP orders?16:50
cehtehwell n950 is the final nail in the coffin for the n900, for maemo and for nokias open platform efforts16:50
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DocScrutinizercehteh: indeed, and that's why I try to promote the idea of a dedicated channel #harmattan for now16:51
RST38hDoc: Wait, it cannot, there are only 250 N950s!16:51
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: there are a feir bit more than 25016:51
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cehteh.o(DocScrutinizer sets mode +l250 on #harmattan)16:51
SpeedEvilRST38h: Sure it can - if a large fraction of the talk in here gets to be n950 specific, it becomes much less useful for those doing n900 dev16:52
javispedroand yet no one created a new #n900 channel during the amsterdam era16:52
fluxwell, someone should've :)16:52
RST38hSpeed: I think we do not have to worry about too much N950 talk...16:52
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: that's not my fault16:52
* RST38h still has not got his btw, still registering as "new order"16:52
cehtehyeah .. lots people feel bad here when asking about n8xx and n71016:52
GeneralAntillesThere was a September proto channel, however. :P16:53
RST38hSince the 8th16:53
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ShadowJKActually the biggest annoyance about N950 talk is that I can't buy one, and I hate being reminded it exists.16:53
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: exactly16:53
* javispedro friendly-fires on GeneralAntilles for causing me to make a bad point16:53
Venemojavispedro, ping16:53
cehtehwrong number? i never had one16:53
javispedroVenemo: shoot.16:53
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, but that one involved NDAs.16:53
GeneralAntillescehteh, "Nokia 770"16:53
cehtehhey how about a prostest action .. anyone who got a n950 sends it back to nokia because of their politics?16:54
cehteh(ok pointless)16:55
* javispedro sighs and ponder surrendering to #harmattan16:55
Venemojavispedro, how familiar are you with harmattan's meegotouch-home? if you prefer, let's have the discussion in #harmattan16:55
DocScrutinizerand btw #harmattan absolutely not been *my* idea - it seems X-Fade was involved in the birth of this chan16:55
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I'm holding out at least 'til Monday, apparently.16:55
Venemowhat, #harmattan is a good channel16:56
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, oh, well, in that case I should join right up. :P16:56
DocScrutinizerso it sounds a bit silly to insist in discussing harmattan stuff here, for now16:56
javispedromgedmin: would it be plausible for povbot to start logging #harmattan?16:56
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cehtehwell serious question, anyone here considering to port apps to WP7? no i dont want to blame anyone, but i am curious if noka can attract single developers from the free software scene16:57
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jonwilNot me, I HATE WP716:57
Venemojavispedro, #harmattan is logged16:57
javispedrodoes anyone here know anything about .NET CF?16:57
cehtehporting to wp7 will be certainly quite some efforts16:57
jonwilIf I was going to develop for anything else other than the N900, it would be Android16:57
javispedroVenemo: but refresh daily16:57
Venemojavispedro, WP7 is not based on .NET CF, but in case you're wondering, yes I know a lot about Silverlight16:57
javispedroVenemo: instead of 5-minutely like on povbot's site.16:57
* cehteh thinks that developing/porting apps to wp7 is only feasible for moderately big software houses who can hire some devs16:58
javispedroVenemo: Silverlight is based on .NET CF?16:59
Venemojavispedro, no, it is not16:59
cehtehthere is no QT on WP7 either or?16:59
javispedroVenemo: either way, the Harmattan meegotouchhome is mostly closed16:59
Venemojavispedro, Silverlight is a technology originally made to kill Flash, but its apparent lack of portability made it not succeed.16:59
Venemojavispedro, that is sad. I wish we could fix the redraw issue when it rotates to landscape17:00
javispedroVenemo: other than where the closed stuff is I don't know much about it.17:00
Venemojavispedro, is the app grid closed?17:00
mgedminjavispedro, yes, I can set up #harmattan logging17:00
javispedromgedmin: thank you very much!17:00
jonwilIt sucks that all the desktop and home and interface for Harmattan is closed when the same things on Fremantle were open :)17:02
jonwilthat should be :(17:02
jonwilnot :)17:02
javispedroNokia has done an interesting move here17:02
javispedrothey have provided open but more simplistic equivalents17:03
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javispedroie they have provided a simpler meegotouchhome, a simpler compositor17:03
javispedro(because yes, the compositor also has a closed plugin)17:03
jonwilso basically they didnt want to share their fancy new UX for Harmattan17:03
Venemocould we use the open app grid plugin (from meego ce) in harmattan?17:04
Troniccehteh: You cannot port applications to WP7. You rewrite them from scratch.17:05
Venemoweirdly, this issue only happens when it rotates from portrait to landscape or when it rotates back and it's already there.17:05
Venemoif I make the it redrawn (swipe away and back), then it rotates back to portrait without issue17:06
TronicSame for Android (if not using NDK) and iOS (if not using C++ as ObjC++).17:06
cehtehTronic: well sometimes a port is rather a rewrite .. but that depends on the application and platform17:06
VenemoTronic, there is Qt for Android!17:06
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TronicBut consider PC, Mac, N900, N9, even some Symbian I suppose: you write the program once and compile for all these platforms (with minor changes).17:07
javispedroand iOS and Android.17:07
javispedroand WebOS.17:07
TronicVenemo: That's why I said without NDK.17:07
javispedroat least if you're using SDL and OpenGL ES 2 you can these days write a game that is 99.9% source portable between PC, Mac, N900, N9, iOS, Android and WebOS ;)17:08
Tronicjavispedro: Didn't know there were Qt ports to iOS and WebOS, or what did you refer to?17:08
javispedroI mentioned SDL17:08
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javispedroand the list doesn't end there: Nintendo DS, Wii, ...17:09
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javispedro(but those two without OGL2 =) )17:09
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TronicI wish they'd publish a GLES 3.0 already.17:10
TronicAdding geometry shaders and better API sync with OGL 4.1.17:11
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TronicMost importantly new GLSL version because there have been major syntactical changes.17:11
jonwilSo yeah should also be possible to make that game portable on most linux distros17:11
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Tronicjonwil: Source code portable, you'd still have to compile it for each distro.17:12
Tronicjonwil: ... or try to hack together a statically linked 32 bit binary with everything built into it.17:12
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TronicOf course it would also be helpful if desktop Linux open-source drivers supported even OpenGL 3.x (hopefully 4.1 as well), they are still stuck with 2.1. The new versions are great but development sucks when you are stuck with these obsolete platforms.17:15
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jonwilI have seen some developers blame software patents for that situation17:26
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jonwilmy god the Nokia QT SDK is taking forever to install17:30
jonwilit wants to install something called madde and I cant turn it off...17:31
DocScrutinizermgedmin: (#harmattan loggin) much appreciated, go ahead17:31
jonwilwhat IS madde anyway?17:31
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ruskiesome IDE I thought17:32
javispedromadde is a) a set of armel cross compilers b) all of the platform header files c) a copy of Fremantle ROM17:33
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javispedroso that you can build "cross-compilable" applications in any platform where the cross compilers run17:34
javispedroyou can build Qt apps for the N900 on Windows with it , for example.17:34
javispedrobut you cannot run a GNU configure script, for another example.17:34
javispedroand using the ROM + qemu you can test the applications.17:35
javispedrobut this works utterly slow.17:35
DocScrutinizerso it's basically true crosscompile vs the SB qemu "native" build process17:35
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: yes.17:44
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jonwilbah, looks like the cellmo-headers stuff isnt in the QT SDK anymore18:03
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jonwilAdd that to the list of things that used to be public but are now gone :(18:10
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jonwiloh wait let me try this download18:11
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jonwilok, gotta rebuild some X stuff on my gentoo box then I can try the download I found and see what happens when I run and install it18:37
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: I hope ~50000 people have the SDK download that still has the good stuff18:41
rm_workis there an SDK download that is... better? lol18:41
jonwilI found a file that should have it18:41
rm_workif so, mirror it somewhere plz :P18:41
rm_workand i'll mirror it18:41
jonwilno, its just an old SDK that had some headers the newest one does not18:42
DocScrutinizerrm_work: [2011-07-15 17:03:32] <jonwil> bah, looks like the cellmo-headers stuff isnt in the QT SDK anymore18:42
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jonwilI am going to do a compare between the 2 soon and see what has changed18:42
rm_worklikely a bug?18:42
DocScrutinizeran ooopsie18:42
jonwillikely intentional18:42
rm_workor would they seriously remove that :/18:42
rm_workan oppsie that they were there to begin with?18:43
jonwilIt was probably an oopsie that they ended up in the SDK in the first place18:43
DocScrutinizerrm_work: yes18:43
jonwiland also I will find the right link to the old 1.0.x SDK18:43
jonwilwhich is still available for download18:43
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* DocScrutinizer recalls he has to trigger another wget job on his server with the big backbone18:44
jonwilok, so to finish my info posts, I gotta check the mailing list archives for info, finish playing with the QT SDKs, identify any of the .debs I have with interesting bits in their documentation folders and finish checking the irc logs for any links that linked to interesting content18:47
jonwili.e. all the stuff I and others have linked to in IRC but never linked anywhere else18:48
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DocScrutinizera daunting task18:51
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jonwilnot really, I have a text file containing the search results of the IRC logs for http://18:51
jonwilsorted by username18:51
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jonwilso I will sort though looking for relavent links18:51
rlinfatihi, how match time take the option erase-mmc of the flasher on the n950 ?18:52
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DocScrutinizerrlinfati: you might get better response on #harmattan18:53
Siceloh-e-n ftw. thanks to all involved18:55
DocScrutinizerSicelo: yw18:57
DocScrutinizerSicelo: hope you enjoy it18:58
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jonwilbah, turns out the cellmo headers were NOT removed from the QT SDK19:00
jonwilI was just looking in the wrong place :(19:00
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rlinfatihow i can login to ovi maps ? :S19:12
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paulyhey any idea how to clear all personal data off n900 without usb?19:16
paulylike wipe it clean19:16
fluxpauly, I think there is an option for that.. if not in seetings, then perhaps in file manager.19:17
jonwilsorting through these IRC logs is not that hard, it shouldn't be rocket science to eliminate large chunks of the logs just based on the domain19:18
paulyflux: what about the rootfs side?19:18
Tronicpauly: you will need to use dd from rootshell to wipe mydocs and home partitions.19:18
jonwile.g. anything from YouTube isn't going to be interesting19:18
Tronicany other option is not secure and the data may be restored.19:18
rm_workjonwil: unless it's EXTREMELY interesting19:18
rm_workin which case, it is :P19:18
Tronicnotice that after wiping your device wont work and requires full reflash19:19
jonwilI mean interesting in the context of having source code/info that Maemo guys might care about19:19
mgedminwhy without usb? did it break?19:19
rm_worki've seen some useful stuff on youtube19:19
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paulyyeah its my old n90019:19
rm_workbut i guess it'd still be a good place to start19:19
jonwilyeah but you dont put source code on YouTube19:19
jonwilor tools or binaries19:19
rm_worki suppose :P19:20
jonwilI am only interested in source code or headers or things of that nature19:20
jonwili.e. hidden stuff that may make Fremantle just that little bit more open19:20
Tronici dont think there is anything interesting on rootfs but you may dd wipe that after the others to be sure.19:20
paulyi want to sell on ebay19:20
* jonwil needs a command to say "take this file and remove all lines with <this string> in it19:20
rm_workgrep -v19:21
paulybroke usb and broke screen19:21
mgedminouch, doing it blind!19:21
mgedminor do you have ssh?19:21
rm_workjonwil: cat file | grep -v 'this string' > newfile19:21
paulynot blind im using tv out :)19:21
rm_workpauly: lol19:22
paulyim backing up all my personal stuff using cp to the mmc1 sc card19:22
rm_workjonwil: can also do it with sed, but i hate remembering all the sed syntax19:22
paulythen after that ill wipe it19:22
jonwilgrep works19:23
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rm_worki even hate remembering proper grep syntax to not need the "cat file | "19:23
ruskieyou are joking?19:24
ruskiegrep -whatever-opts "search" file19:24
nid0itd just be grep -v 'string' file > newfile19:24
paulyi sold my good condition n900 for $187 usd yay!19:24
ruskiehmm cheap19:25
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ChoomI doubt I'll sell mine19:33
Choomunless I can run a terminal on an N9 I'll be rather split19:33
kerioi really want a refined n95019:34
keriowith MOAR SPACE19:34
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ShadowJKthe N9/N950 CPU&RAM in N900 would be a nice device19:41
rm_worklol ruskie/nid0, seriously ALWAYS forget the arg order for grep, it's like some sort of mental block... i remember all the args for tons of other complicated stuff, but never grep T_T19:42
* mgedmin would prefer the N900 software in the N950 hardware19:42
rm_workeven though i prolly use grep more often19:42
ruskierm_work, there is no order really19:42
rm_workgrep "search" file19:42
ruskieyou can even do: grep "whatever" file -params19:42
mgedminuseful quick mnemonic: you pass only one regex to grep, but you can pass as many files as you like19:42
rm_worki always try grep file "search" first19:42
mgedminand variable-numbered arguments are typically specified last19:42
rm_workmgedmin: ah, yeah, that makes sense :P we'll see if i remember19:43
DocScrutinizerpauly: for all that's reasonable I'd just do a rm -rf ~user/19:43
rm_worki think it's carryover from programming19:43
rm_workfor regex it's always "searchFunction(sourceString, patternString)19:43
DocScrutinizerotherwise you'll brick the device, in a real sense of "bricking" as you don't have USB to reflash it19:44
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mgedmincan a device survive with an empty /home/user?19:44
mgedminI seem to recall horror stories from ancient n800 times where an error in /home/user/.profile would prevent the device from booting19:44
ShadowJKprobably not19:45
paulydoc: whats that do?19:45
ShadowJKThere's actually a skeleton /home/user backup in /etc somewhere. If emmc is dead, the system creates a /home on the nand, and copies the bare bones $home to it19:46
DocScrutinizerpauly: it will delete all the stuff you stored to user's home, like widgets, highscores, SIP accounts, whatnot else19:46
paulyDocscrutinizer: what about rootfs, do u think any personal data will be on there19:46
DocScrutinizerusually not19:47
paulyDocscrutinizer: thanks19:47
paulyanyone want an n900 with a broken screen / broken usb?19:47
DocScrutinizeranyway listen to ShadowJK - even deleting home/user/* may cause your device to not bootup anymore19:48
DocScrutinizerpauly: I think SpeedEvil might be interested19:48
paulyya thats all i need19:48
paulylol thanks doc19:48
SpeedEvilpauly: Somewhat19:49
SpeedEvilpauly: I've got one with a dodgy modem, and swappig it if I can get the USB working would be good19:49
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paulyspeedevil: well i sent it to repair center they fixed usb then it broke again19:50
paulyspeedevil: the port fell off but idk if u can just put one on19:51
SpeedEvilIt's generally not that simple.19:51
SpeedEvilUsually as I understad it, pads will have been ripped off.19:51
SpeedEvilIt's generally a tricky task to solder it on.19:51
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DocScrutinizeryup, but feasible19:51
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DocScrutinizerfor a bravehearted EE19:51
paulyspeedevil: like i said i think they fixed it once?19:52
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SpeedEvilOr maybe swapped the board.19:52
mgedminI've heard horror stories about people bringing n900s to repair centres and getting back n8s, since the n900s are no longer available19:52
paulyspeedevil: idk19:52
paulymgedmin: i actually sold my n900 to get an n819:53
Siceloso u have N8 already?19:53
paulynot yet19:53
paulyi sold it fot 187 usd on ebay19:53
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GeneralAntillesW T F :
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mgedminconserving precious bandwidth bytes for the win20:11
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paulyneeding help i tried using cp to copy data from a directory in mydocs too mmc121:29
paulybut it didnt work21:29
paulywhen i cd to mmc1 and hit ls to see if anything transferd i got an input output error21:31
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paulyi have no usb im using tv out and touch panel dont work so i just got xterm and mmc1?21:33
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SpeedEvilyou have the back cover on?21:34
SpeedEvildmesg shows anything?21:35
paulyi dont know?21:35
SpeedEvilerrors, for example21:36
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paulyi got to turn it on21:37
paulyis that the best way to get the data out of it?21:37
paulywhat else would work21:37
SpeedEvilhow much data?21:38
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paulyif i remeber correctly like 8-12 gb21:38
paulyi had all of our pics on it21:38
SpeedEvilThat's a couple of hours, so you won't get that off on wifi on one charge at least21:39
paulyi know21:40
SpeedEvilcan you access the files from the UI?21:40
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SpeedEvilthe mmc21:40
paulytouch panel is crazy couldnt open file manager21:40
paulymmc1 is sd card?21:40
paulymy only option was to open xterm using shift x ctrl21:41
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SpeedEvilI think mmc1 is emmc21:42
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SpeedEvil0 is emmc21:42
paulythat makes sence21:42
SpeedEvilWhat does mount show21:43
SpeedEvilis it mounted at all?21:43
SpeedEvilI'd first try tking the mmc out and formatting it in some PC21:43
paulyits off now im charging batt using my good n90021:43
SpeedEvilthen plugging it back inn ad see it it is automounted21:43
paulyso i should try again using cp21:43
SpeedEvilIf you can charge teh battery a couple of times, I'd not bother21:44
SpeedEvilI'd just apt-get install rsync21:44
SpeedEvilthen just use that to copy over mydocs21:44
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paulyya but wouldnt it get messed up21:44
paulysince all data wouldnt transfer21:45
paulyon 1 charge21:45
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SpeedEvilNo - that's the nice bit about rsync21:58
SpeedEvilIt only transfers new bits of file.21:59
paulyi was reading on wiki about it21:59
DocScrutinizermmc0 is the first one detected21:59
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ioanhi. what's the name of the suite of applications for bluetooth monitoring?22:01
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DocScrutinizerthat's some weird stuff going on with mmc renaming during boot, that afects naming when or when not you have a uSD inserted22:01
DocScrutinizersome parts of kernel still refer to uSD as mmc0 after hte rename22:01
paulyim a linux newb so i guess if i just cd to /media and see what directory is there?22:03
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mgedminyou'll see both, I believe22:03
mgedminwait, no, eMMC is mounted on /home/user/MyDocs, not in /media22:04
paulyim looking for sd card22:04
mgedmingoogle tells me /media/mmc1 is the right place22:05
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DocScrutinizeruSD is under /media22:06
paulyso if i want to see size of Mydocs to see if it will fit on 16gb sd car ill type du /Mydocs22:07
DocScrutinizerbut when you look up e.g. dmesg errors you might find uSD referred to as mmc022:07
paulylinux is easy22:07
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mgedminon my n900 /dev/mmcblk0 is the builtin eMMC; I've never plugged in an sd card22:08
DocScrutinizerdu -hsx MyDocs might even be nicer22:08
paulywhats -hsx flag?22:09
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: yes, if you boot with no uSD in, then eMMC is mmc022:09
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ScifigI used to build and sign package with dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k<emailaddress>. I think i lost the keys when i reinstalled scratchbox. Now extras builder is rejecting my package.22:10
DocScrutinizer-h is human-readable, s is "only top directory shown", and x is "don't follow links to other filesystems"22:10
ScifigBuilder says - "gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found"22:10
ScifigHow do I export the new public key and where do I update it on garage?22:11
DocScrutinizerprobably x is useless for MyDocs22:11
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paulyi dont know if i need s since i need subdirectorys22:11
DocScrutinizeryou don't want to get them listed though, I guess22:11
DocScrutinizerwithout -s you get *many* lines of output22:12
paulyto show22:12
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paulythanks so much22:12
paulyso just rsync all the data22:13
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DocScrutinizerwhat was that trick to avoid swap bringing large copies to a grinding halt? echo 0 >/proc/swappiness or sth?22:16
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: ^^^22:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you might recall as well ^^^22:17
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SpeedEvilrsync - locally - bypasses it22:18
DocScrutinizerooh it does?22:18
* DocScrutinizer suggests >> echo 30 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness <<22:19
DocScrutinizer*might* help22:19
rm_workthats what swappolube does too right?22:19
paulySpeedEvil do i need to set any options with rsync or just rsync /MyDocs media/mmc122:19
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ScifigI used to build and sign package with dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k<emailaddress>. I think i lost the keys when i reinstalled scratchbox. Now extras builder is rejecting my package.22:20
ScifigDocscrutinizer - Any thoughts ^^^ ?22:20
SpeedEvilpauly: yes - that works22:21
DocScrutinizersorry, no idea22:21
javispedroScifig: you do not need to sign packages22:21
GeneralAntillesStill stuck in the UK.22:21
javispedrohow are you uploading them?22:21
javispedroGeneralAntilles: ah well, monday afternoon then =)22:22
DocScrutinizerpauly: you'll notice the / is odd at head of MyDocs22:22
Scifigjavispedro, Extras assistant (web based)22:22
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, kill me.22:22
javispedroScifig: so, no need to sign packages at all.22:22
javispedroScifig: if you want to, generate a new key, etc. But only uberparanoids or geeks do that.22:22
javispedro(like me =) )22:22
javispedro~kill GeneralAntilles22:23
* infobot shoots a hyper-charged anti-meson gun at GeneralAntilles22:23
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Scifigjavispedro, I stopped signing after the error came up. Don't know whether it is recommended to sign or not. I guess the standard commands on wiki included -k<emailid> i guess. Thats why i started doing that22:24
paulyDocScrutinizer: i dont understand?22:24
ScifigWill there be any possible issues with aegis with signing/not signing once there is a repo for harmattan?22:25
javispedroScifig: well, no need to. If you want to continue doing it, then google for "debian packcage signing" or the like22:25
javispedroScifig: nope22:25
rm_workGeneralAntilles: T_T22:25
Scifigjavispedro, Thanks22:25
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rm_workGeneralAntilles: I just hope it eventually LEAVES the UK T_T22:26
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javispedroit'll probably move on saturday22:26
DocScrutinizerpauly: if you're "lucky" and SpeedEvil is wrong (he usually isn't) then odds are your copy/rsync will get *very* slow after a while. the echo 30>... will maybe avoid this22:26
ScifigGeneralAntilles, Does DHL work on Saturdays, or is it just my dream?22:26
GAN900Jaffa's padding his collection22:26
GAN900Scifig, don't think they do.22:27
javispedroDHL works on Saturdays, couriers do not.22:27
GAN900"business day" seems to be the wording.22:27
ScifigMonday it is then.22:27
paulyDocScrutinizer: i was talking about the / being odd on mydocs?22:27
DocScrutinizeraah /MyDocs doesn't exist22:27
pauly  /home/user/Mydocs22:29
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness; echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/nr_requests22:35
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: thanks22:36
ShadowJKthe swappiness things adds some jitter/stutter to some things22:36
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DocScrutinizerbetter than a freeze, on cp ~user/MyDocs/really-huge-file /media/mmc1/22:37
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pabs3how goes the N950 DocScrutinizer ?22:43
ShadowJKalso do mmcblk1 in that echo22:43
ShadowJKboth mmcblk0 and mmcblk122:44
DocScrutinizerpabs3: well, not my favourite device. Nothing new after all, knew that beforehand22:45
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: thanks, missed that bit22:47
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paulydoc: Speedevil: hey i get a skipped directory MyDocs22:52
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paulywhen trying to use rsync22:53
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* javispedro ponders what to ask when they ask me "where is unistd.h in Windows"23:27
javispedros/what to ask/what to answer/23:27
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cehtehc:\cygwin\usr\include\ :)23:28
javispedrogood point.23:28
pabs3reply "lol"23:28
cehteh(no i dont use windows, that was only a guess)23:28
javispedroactually, I usually get questions the opposite direction, so this one kinda surprised me.23:29
pabs3there is a copy in wine's msvcrt dir, so presumably ms msvcrt has one too23:29
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BluesLeethe remaining brainteasers at are very interesting23:40
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