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| Jaffa | GAN900: Never heard it called that before | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, your pile of N950s? | 00:14 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: The collective noun for N950s is "murder" ;-) | 00:15 |
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| tim_abell | hi all, i wonder if anyone can help. my ubuntu pc doesn't seem to be able to see any of my photos on my maemo n900 over bluetooth. i've searched around a bit and am stumped. | 00:20 |
| * Jaffa has had lots of problems with his N900 and Bluetooth interoperability. But without solution (apart from, get N950) | 00:21 | |
| tim_abell | there's an n950? | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Not for normal people :) | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Only devs, and they're all allocated. | 00:23 |
| tim_abell | oh hello SpeedEvil where do I know you from? | 00:23 |
| tim_abell | openmoko? | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is an annoying decision, as it's a platform with a keyboard, unlike the schedules mass production version. | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 00:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | also perhaps openstreetmap a bit? | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | tim_abell: any files visible? | 00:24 |
| tim_abell | i guess i should expect to see some familiar nicks round here | 00:24 |
| tim_abell | yes, everything except the dcim folder :-/ | 00:24 |
| ShadowJK | weird.. | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I've never actually tried that - I diddn't think it worked. | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi tim_abell | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe this was somethign that diddn't work in earlier PR's | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/ ? | 00:25 |
| tim_abell | it was almost perfect, pairing was beautiful easy and seamless. right click the bluetooth icon, browse files, up they pop | 00:25 |
| tim_abell | yeah that one. shows as "Camera" in the phone file manager, but the console gives the lie to that | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - you've not got the device plugged in? | 00:26 |
| tim_abell | well, to the mains adapter for power, but not to the pc | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | If you have, it will unmount it if you've got mass storage eabled. | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - not the case then | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | you checked if BT does insert some similar lies like "Camera"? | 00:27 |
| tim_abell | tim@atom:~/.gvfs/Deep thought $ ls | 00:28 |
| tim_abell | Audio clips Data Documents Images Memory card Video clips | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe now it's "Pictures" or "Images" or whatever? | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | it does actually insert "Camera" | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | but it's empty | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | Data/DCIM :-) | 00:29 |
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| tim_abell | on the phone "ls /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/" shows all my jpgs | 00:29 |
| tim_abell | hang on the phone went to sleep, misbehaving now | 00:30 |
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| ShadowJK | My N810 went misbehaving browsing photos on N900 over BT :-) | 00:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | My BT is "gone" on my desktop :-o | 00:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | used to have that systray icon when plugging in the BT dongle... | 00:34 |
| tim_abell | i bought a dlink bluetooth dongle dbt-122 if i remember correctly, and it works fab on ubuntu. couldn't get it work on windows for the life of me | 00:34 |
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| * ShadowJK streams mp3 from N900 to N810 over BT | 00:37 | |
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| ShadowJK | N810 is pretty darn good at communication | 00:38 |
| tim_abell | now that's cool | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jul 15 23:29:58 halley bluetoothd[21752]: Can't load plugin /usr/lib/bluetooth/plugins/netlink.so: /usr/lib/bluetooth/plugins/netlink.so: undefined symbol: debug | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jul 15 23:29:58 halley bluetoothd[21752]: Parsing /etc/bluetooth/network.conf failed: No such file or directory | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | well, if you ignore the missing cellular | 00:38 |
| tim_abell | you could leave the n810 plugged into your hifi stack which is what i would do | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | nah, N810 audio output is poor | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | you can even hear the noise floor in the built in speakers | 00:39 |
| tim_abell | oh shame. i'm pleased with the n900's headphone out | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | The speakers in N810 are awesome, and makes up somewhat for the noisy amp | 00:41 |
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| tim_abell | hrmph browse isn't working at all now. brb going to restart | 00:46 |
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| ShadowJK | Seems to be using as much powe to play from BT as from mSD | 00:46 |
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| ShadowJK | 130-140 mA with screen locked and cpu locked to 125MHz | 00:53 |
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| tim_abell | right, thanks for the tips, my photos are indeed in data/dcim | 00:54 |
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| tim_abell | hurrah | 00:54 |
| Atarii | ls | 00:54 |
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| Hurrian | i just had an idea | 01:26 |
| Hurrian | why not use the blank initfs to store an initramfs that sets up encryption on the N900? | 01:27 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders if NOLO would somehow make use of anything on initfs partition, e.g. by passing the according parameters to kernel | 01:36 | |
| javispedro | NOLO is the one that should load the initfs, so either it is already loading it and passing garbage to the kernel which ignores it, or it is not doing anything and thus never will do anythin. | 01:39 |
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| Hurrian | isnt initfs on the n900 blank? | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 01:43 |
| Hurrian | hmm, i wonder if we could make an initfs | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I thought kernel would load the initrd | 01:44 |
| Hurrian | even better, why not boot a ramdisk for the fastest boots ever? | 01:44 |
| javispedro | kernel doesn't know how to mmc | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 01:44 |
| javispedro | not at that boot stage at least. | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | so how does that work? | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it was working - say, on N810 | 01:45 |
| javispedro | s/mmc/onenand/ ;P | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I thought sth's odd, didn't really spot the mmc though ;-) | 01:46 |
| javispedro | well, NOLO loads contents of initrd partition on contiguos memory area, somehow passes pointer to this area to kernel, kernel mounts it, loads modules et all from it. | 01:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | doesn't it need uncompressing as well? | 01:47 |
| javispedro | potentially, but kernel can uncompress a memory area. | 01:47 |
| javispedro | in fact, on x86 kernel uncompresses itself (dunno on ARM) | 01:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, a somewhat loosely related question: would a dd if=/dev/mtd3 of=vmlinux result in a bootable maemo kernel file? | 01:49 |
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| javispedro | dunno (for the same reasons dd if=/dev/mtd5 of=... would not get you a flashable ubifs) | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I see | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | except from that, the format is suitable? | 01:51 |
| javispedro | technically yes.. | 01:51 |
| Hurrian | then again, you could just dd the file back on | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and is that the same format you feed to flasher-3.5 --kernel-only ? | 01:51 |
| Hurrian | but for bad blocks reasons, please dont | 01:51 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's a good question -- I'd say yes. | 01:52 |
| javispedro | because I do not think there's any extra "transformation" done by flasher. | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm thinking about a maemo on uSD, looking like a meego | 01:53 |
| javispedro | on diablo times this was called cloning to SD | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 01:53 |
| javispedro | however some people tried on early n900 times and found that some telephony stuff was crapping itself when run from sd | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | what were the pitfalls? | 01:54 |
| javispedro | (iiirc it was pin entry dialog or the likes :) ) | 01:54 |
| javispedro | the adventures should be detailed in TMO | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeew | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | telephony going mad | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf? | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway for a really nice rescue system telephony isn't exactly mandatory | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I just have a hard time figuring how to produce a kernel file on-device | 01:56 |
| javispedro | any SSU package should come with one | 01:56 |
| javispedro | kernel package, obvsly. | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | (for, say, a package consisting of a scriptfile to prepare such uSD) | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, of course :-D | 01:57 |
| markinfo | i get time to time "Error stating file '/home/marek/.gvfs': Transport endpoint is not connected." if i want to open my home directory. Mostly helps full restart. Wat is it? | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | an error msg from your desktop - first instance? | 01:58 |
| javispedro | who are you and what are you doing on this channel? | 01:58 |
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| markinfo | oh - wrong channel | 01:58 |
| javispedro | ;P | 01:58 |
| javispedro | that's gnome error message. | 01:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | gnome virtual file system | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | some abomination | 01:59 |
| javispedro | though they were just copying kde | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 02:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I already forgot what for it's used anyway | 02:01 |
| javispedro | it's another layer of abstraction -- between a plain dir and, say, a FTP server. | 02:01 |
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| villager | well, gvfs is different from the old gnome vfs (redesigned and moved into the glib family I think)... and ~/.gvfs is a fuse mount point that gives access to the mounted virtual filesystems without needing glib/gnome libs | 02:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kornbluth acted up on me, sorry | 02:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.thevash.com/gallery.html | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | neat | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | visual hashes | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | data -> abstract art | 03:19 |
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| tank-man | not my kind of hash | 03:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | any of you guys know where one can purchase USB->uUSB coiled cable on its own? I need something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00582FQHC/ref=asc_df_B00582FQHC3568331?smid=AKBGN3C3XNN03&tag=pr-syn24-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B00582FQHC without the car charger/adapter head | 03:34 |
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| RiD_ | Hi guys | 03:38 |
| psycho_oreos | hi | 03:39 |
| RiD_ | Can someone tell me what is DMA? Isn't it about the sound in N900? | 03:40 |
| psycho_oreos | where did you read about DMA? | 03:41 |
| RiD_ | well it's hogging my n900 | 03:41 |
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| RiD_ | and I saw it with powertop. I did a quick search in google and read that something related with "alsa mixer (DMA)" on a post, that's why im wondering | 03:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=usb%20%20coiled&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories psycho_oreos | 03:43 |
| psycho_oreos | afaik DMA is a way of how BIOS/kernel interfaces with devices, it isn't directly associated with sound, that's speaking of general PC-wise | 03:44 |
| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, ta | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - you may try tightly winding a USB cable round a pencil, and placing in oven at 100C for an hour | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | remove and leave to cool | 03:44 |
| RiD_ | psycho_oreos: oh, thanks | 03:44 |
| psycho_oreos | not a bad idea but I only have one usable USB->uUSB cable to play with. I need something like a coiled type for the car and probably preferable to be separate from the original nokia cable I have :) | 03:45 |
| RiD_ | It seems like something related to kernel is kind of screwed up. IRQ: 12 | Activity: 2133 | Type: INTC | DMA. that's for sure very weird | 03:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Sound is going to do a _lot_ of iterrupts | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | It's pretty much unavoidable | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | the FIFO into the ADC is tiny | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - powertop is at best a hint. | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | And relying on any number at all as a proxy for power use without understanding is prone to failure. | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_Consumption | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | rather | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | stupid case sensitivity | 03:50 |
| ShadowJK | powertop is nice for figuring out power use during standby/idle. That means screen off immediately after starting powertop, and keeping screen off and not touching anything for the 10+30 seconds that powertop does measurement. | 03:51 |
| ShadowJK | Then you could pastebin it for us | 03:51 |
| RiD_ | That's what i did | 03:51 |
| ShadowJK | I don't see a pastebin link | 03:51 |
| RiD_ | Sure i can put it in pastebin, holdon | 03:51 |
| RiD_ | Yes you're right, sorry but it's a bit late here and my brain is in powersaving mode. Slow reaction eh :p | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Sound it's quite irrelevant as to 'wakeups' or 'interrupts' as the CPU is on 100% of the time at 250MHz | 03:53 |
| ShadowJK | I guess sleepanalyzer and souch would, if running, keep sound & accelerometers active at all times? | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | probably | 03:54 |
| ShadowJK | Other than that, sound should be idle most of the time | 03:54 |
| psycho_oreos | wouldn't sleepanalyser only probes the accelerometer at set intervals rather than leaving it on permanently? | 03:55 |
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| ShadowJK | If it only probed set intervals it'd miss events | 03:55 |
| RiD_ | http://pastebin.com/BNQrzSud here it is. I had sleepanalyzer installed a long time ago, but removed it also a long time ago before this battery drain issue. | 03:55 |
| psycho_oreos | afaik sleepanalyser can be set to do a sampling rate, I thought that was something to do with probing the accelerometer at set intervals. Or maybe the data is analysed and ten averaged during the intervals and accelerometer is stuck permanently on? :) | 03:56 |
| psycho_oreos | s/ten/then/ | 03:57 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: afaik sleepanalyser can be set to do a sampling rate, I thought that was something to do with probing the accelerometer at set intervals. Or maybe the data is analysed and then averaged during the intervals and accelerometer is stuck permanently on? :) | 03:57 |
| ShadowJK | RiD_, looks weird. Is charger connected? | 03:57 |
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| ShadowJK | Also things like USBHOST in state RET... that's exceedingly weird | 03:58 |
| RiD_ | oh damn i pasted the wrong log :( | 03:58 |
| RiD_ | that one was with charger connected, i did one without it a few minutes ago. Sorry, my brain isn't working properly | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: accelerometer should be driven in a IRQ based way, so there's no meaning in "keeping it active" | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Anything with charger connected is bogus - it causes lots of wakeups | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | IF driver and app are built correctly | 04:00 |
| ShadowJK | If you can do what you want to do without streaming data :) | 04:01 |
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| RiD_ | http://pastebin.com/KbDy0ckw that's the one without anything plugged on the phone. Connected to wifi and gsm only | 04:01 |
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| RiD_ | And screen was blanked :) | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Doing what? | 04:01 |
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| ShadowJK | DSS, CAM, USBHOST are in RET instead of OFF. usbhost should always be off, because the usbhost part of the SOC isn't even connected to anything | 04:02 |
| * ShadowJK 'd be inclined to blame powerkernel or whatever it is... | 04:02 | |
| ds3 | what USBHOST are you referring to? there are 2 possible provider of that functionality | 04:03 |
| ShadowJK | ds3, there are two usb controllers, a host controller and the otg controller, the musb otg controller is under "PER" I think? | 04:03 |
| ShadowJK | RiD_, hm, what does plain top look like? | 04:04 |
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| ds3 | there are actually 3 USB controllers | 04:04 |
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| RiD_ | ShadowJK: what do you exactly mean with plaintop? | 04:05 |
| ds3 | 2 is useable at any one time :/ | 04:05 |
| ShadowJK | RiD_, "top" | 04:05 |
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| RiD_ | right now pulseaudio and browserd are the only ones using more cpu.pulseaudio around 10% and browserd 15-20%. I'm using the browser to chat here | 04:07 |
| ShadowJK | hm.. | 04:07 |
| RiD_ | the phone is in silent mode and the volume bar is set to 0, if thatbs worth mentioning | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got nuttin on RET status here. CAM and USBHOST should be OFF | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm missing the CPU freq C states | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | did you cut then to hide you are overclocking? ;-D | 04:09 |
| cehteh | haha | 04:10 |
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| RiD_ | I didn't copied the whole thing? whoops. Yes I'm overclocking @700MHz | 04:11 |
| cehteh | well they seem to be meaningless on titans kernel iirc .. or something else goes wrong when overclocking :P | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | powertop gets confused on the additional freq | 04:11 |
| cehteh | ah ok | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably like a webservice when scanning a html page that has changed | 04:12 |
| cehteh | :) | 04:12 |
| cehteh | C0 | 92.2% | | 1150 MHz | nan% | | 04:13 |
| cehteh | C1 | 1.4% | 0.2ms | | 04:13 |
| cehteh | C2 | 6.4% | 0.8ms | | 04:13 |
| cehteh | ... i am definately not overclocking to 1150Mhz | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | now OUCH | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 04:13 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, did you eventually get the apt-get to work with harmatten-dev repos? | 04:13 |
| RiD_ | Anyways the phone never gets to C2 or C3 state | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | but C0 92% is correct nevertheless I guess | 04:13 |
| cehteh | RiD_: usb connected? | 04:14 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes just installing some software it was under load :) | 04:14 |
| RiD_ | 97% on C1 and 3% on C0 | 04:14 |
| cehteh | RiD_: what apps do you have running? | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 04:14 |
| RiD_ | cehteh: the last pastebin that I linked didn't have the usb plugged | 04:14 |
| cehteh | (including widgets, power monitors and all) | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: should show up in powertop, no? | 04:15 |
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| cehteh | yes forgot | 04:15 |
| RiD_ | cehteh: only browser and xterm. OMweather widget and ussd widget, both "manual". I got BatteryEye installed | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, probably only wakeups | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | close browser, man! | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and batteryeye EEEEEK | 04:16 |
| RiD_ | I'm using it to chat here xD | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's notorious to hog all it can hog | 04:16 |
| cehteh | really? .. i deinstalled and installed BatteryGraph long ago (more features) but batteryeye worked | 04:17 |
| RiD_ | I mean *batteryGraph | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd consider battery eye a battery stress test with built in monitoring ;-P | 04:17 |
| RiD_ | DAMN I'm so sleepy | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | same | 04:17 |
| RiD_ | I mixed wifiEye name with BatteryGraph, LOL | 04:17 |
| cehteh | also running powertop over ssh when the display is turned off gives better idle stats | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I'm not sure which of both or even both are evil | 04:18 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: batterygraph doesnt wake much, ok its python so it takes some memory | 04:18 |
| ShadowJK | battery-eye doesn't wake much either, atleast it didn't when I had it installed | 04:18 |
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| cehteh | yes both worked for me | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | one of those cute apps refreshed graphs like 10/s | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | even when hidden | 04:19 |
| RiD_ | Hmmm, I guess im screwed :| | 04:19 |
| cehteh | batterygraph runs a daemon, dunno how often it polls but i rarely see it waking up | 04:19 |
| cehteh | the daemon pushes into a sqlite .. and the gui only displays the data from the sqlite .. if i get that right | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never installed any of those (I got better tools ;-D), but it's been notorious one of them hogged battery via CPU load | 04:21 |
| cehteh | maybe you only tried them when they where new and that got eventually fixed? | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | pushes into SQLite, WHAT? | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 04:22 |
| cehteh | http://pastebin.com/eDGybJLz .. btw, mine on idle .. skype sux :P | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | Everybody seems to use sqlite as a backing store for random datastreams. sqlite is a major (if not *THE*) contributor to "stutter" :) | 04:22 |
| RiD_ | at least yours still managed a whooping 0.2% on C3 | 04:22 |
| cehteh | err i thought i deinstalled applock .. it doesnt work yet :P | 04:23 |
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| cehteh | mhm doing a reboot .. a lot packages fail to stop when removed poor packaging | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | waking up sqlite db daemon process every xx seconds, maybe every second - just brilliant | 04:23 |
| cehteh | peerhoodd << wtf is that? | 04:23 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, there's no db daemon | 04:24 |
| cehteh | yeah | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever, it's a huge machine | 04:24 |
| cehteh | sqlite can be very well tuned for embedded usage | 04:24 |
| ShadowJK | cehteh, lol | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: BS | 04:24 |
| cehteh | (for a sql database ...) | 04:24 |
| cehteh | no i am not fanboy i dont like sql :P | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't want to do a database operation for each log point | 04:24 |
| cehteh | but really its better than all the rest | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | no matter what | 04:24 |
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| javispedro | how many points per second? | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | write the crap to a file, done | 04:25 |
| ShadowJK | The best tuning you could do is make a LD_PRELOAD .so file which makes fsync() and fdatasync() into a NOP, that'd reduce latency/stutter by about 1 second for each time an app prods a sqlite db :) | 04:25 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: you can wakes/commits off, it basically is then just some api to write data to a file which speaks sql | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: yeah | 04:25 |
| cehteh | doesnt really matter if you do that in python or sqlite .. :P | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | the last 3 words make it | 04:26 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: still in the UK rogl | 04:26 |
| rm_you | *rofl | 04:26 |
| cehteh | but for the gui it has some advantage as you can easily query things you are interested in | 04:26 |
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| ShadowJK | Last I heard they had "fixed" sqlite for Harmattan. But they said that about tracker too.. | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you know how a database works, do you? with primary index and whatnot | 04:26 |
| cehteh | you dont need to read an parse a huge file | 04:26 |
| * javispedro used sqlite to store gps points in his tracklog app, and worked very well, but this was ~2 seconds per point | 04:26 | |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes i know how sqlite works | 04:26 |
| * ShadowJK remembers when firefox used to hang 3 seconds for each letter you typed into the address bar, because of sqlite :-) | 04:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: then probably GPS power consumption made CPU load to maintain a dbms negligible | 04:27 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: is weigths more than just appending to a file sure .. but if you want to expire old data or selected data from a logfile and want to filter over it and seletively enable/disable things then it has some advantages | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what | 04:28 |
| cehteh | there is 'lite' in its name for a reason | 04:28 |
| RiD_ | I'm going to do a powertop log without browser and wifi | 04:28 |
| ShadowJK | The cpu load is probably irrelevant. The random I/O load and fsync/fdatasync requests coming from dbms type things are worse | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you think you have to do that realtime, then your design really needs a thorough rethink | 04:29 |
| cehteh | yeah i hope that the programmer turned fsyncs off for this | 04:29 |
| javispedro | PRAGMA synchronous = 0, journal_mode = memory; | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA | 04:29 |
| ShadowJK | they didn't | 04:29 |
| cehteh | see javispedro | 04:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, sure it's the fsync that kills battery, and I subsumed it under CPU load | 04:30 |
| ShadowJK | iirc for Harmattan they were making/investigating/using a mode where it only wrote to journal (on disk) :-) | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really correct | 04:30 |
| cehteh | anyway batterygraph is no much a battery eater here ... | 04:30 |
| ShadowJK | Because a journal is cheap to write | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | do the "write to journal" manually, explicitly. That's called apend-to-file | 04:31 |
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| ShadowJK | and read seeks are "free" on flash | 04:31 |
| cehteh | but it wakes a lot hardware | 04:31 |
| cehteh | not really true | 04:31 |
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| ShadowJK | compared to writes they are :-) | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | even do that to a ram buffer that you write out to the file every 512byte only | 04:32 |
| ShadowJK | you have about 200 read IOPS and 4 write IOPS :) | 04:32 |
| cehteh | from a wear and speed perspective maybe .. but from a power viewpoint no | 04:32 |
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| cehteh | you have to go over a lot layers, wake a lot circruits | 04:32 |
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| cehteh | plus cache poisoning and buffering issues | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMG now we are from battery logger doing BS to free seeks on flash | 04:33 |
| javispedro | note that fsync() on /home on N900 should do basically nothing | 04:33 |
| cehteh | :) | 04:33 |
| javispedro | as commit is forced every second either way | 04:33 |
| * cehteh deinstalls batterygraph .. i dont use it anyway anymore | 04:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer | so is that any better when it's forced? | 04:34 |
| javispedro | (obviously if you call fsync() more than once per second you will do "damage") | 04:34 |
| cehteh | javispedro: not here :) | 04:34 |
| Hurrian | ah right, where do we disable that crap? | 04:34 |
| cehteh | commit=600 laptop_mode=600 | 04:34 |
| Hurrian | i cant find mount ops for the life of me | 04:34 |
| javispedro | and not on the n950, fwiw. | 04:34 |
| Hurrian | writing every second isnt exactly ideal | 04:35 |
| cehteh | peerhoodd << so wtf is that? | 04:35 |
| javispedro | it depends. | 04:35 |
| RiD__ | I'm back :) http://pastebin.com/cGjrP242 Only connected to GSM, silent mode. @700Mhz | 04:35 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, dirty_expire is longer I think? | 04:36 |
| Hurrian | RiD__ : i can't feel 700MHz, 750 MHz is more like it | 04:36 |
| RiD__ | Hurrian: I"m fine with 700Mhz :) | 04:37 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: do not have the n900 around ;) | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | something is *severely* wrong with your device, RiD__ | 04:37 |
| javispedro | (and somehow I'm sure it's related to OC =) ) | 04:38 |
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| cehteh | RiD__: disable overclocking, use the nokia stock power profile .. and try again | 04:38 |
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| cehteh | RiD__: maybe remove sim .. and memory card | 04:38 |
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| ShadowJK | "time sync" at idle device just took 1.1 sec :) | 04:38 |
| javispedro | note that I have no idea how it fsync works in ubifs | 04:39 |
| javispedro | which you invoked by doing sync =) | 04:39 |
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| javispedro | being a journal based fs, an fsync() there probably does even more damage than ext3, but this is just a uneducated guess. | 04:40 |
| cehteh | as in wear or you mean filesystem consistency? | 04:40 |
| javispedro | as in "stuff it has to do" | 04:41 |
| RiD__ | cehteh: in other words, i should uninstall power kernel, remove SIM and run powertop after the phone gets completely turned on (without the tracker messing around). Is it? | 04:41 |
| javispedro | which means both wear and performance | 04:41 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if somebody messed with USBHOST in defconfig of powerkernel | 04:41 | |
| cehteh | RiD__: not necessary deinstall the power kernel .. just keep default frequency and power profile and dont set new ones (remove your configuration) | 04:41 |
| ShadowJK | you probably want to install normal kernel instead of uninstalling power kernel... I forget which one "bricked" devices | 04:42 |
| cehteh | well and measure when usb is not plugged in | 04:42 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: haha | 04:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uninstalling kernels is a really stupid idea, as you get exactly that: a device without kernel | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, iostat attributes atleast 75% of it to emmc :-) | 04:43 |
| cehteh | stopping skype and other such services is also a good idea | 04:43 |
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| RiD__ | skype is off :p | 04:43 |
| ShadowJK | the high i2c interrupt count is curious | 04:43 |
| Hurrian | hmm, i feel really tempted to find a spare N900 and try to replace the SoC | 04:43 |
| Hurrian | same package - BGA 515 | 04:44 |
| cehteh | haha batterygraoh doesnt like to be removed .. | 04:44 |
| Hurrian | voltage is OK (0.8-1.35V) | 04:44 |
| Hurrian | POP is ball-compatible | 04:44 |
| cehteh | RiD__: stock battery? | 04:44 |
| RiD__ | cehteh: Yes | 04:44 |
| Hurrian | force remove then | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: the mmc1 IRQs are way more curious | 04:45 |
| ShadowJK | not sure if that's emmc or usd, before or after renaming | 04:46 |
| cehteh | as i saied, try without sim and memory card | 04:46 |
| RiD__ | cehteh: default kernel preset loaded | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's eMMC | 04:46 |
| cehteh | mmc1 is µsd here | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | as uSD is controller 0 so it can get boot | 04:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: nah, no way | 04:47 |
| RiD__ | I will do it now. see you guys soon, if i dont fall in sleep | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe in your mounttab | 04:47 |
| Hurrian | Doc, isn't uSD physically on mmc0, and emmc on mmc1? | 04:47 |
| cehteh | from linux i mean | 04:47 |
| Hurrian | the phone just does some weird switching? | 04:47 |
| cehteh | yes thats what doc says | 04:47 |
| cehteh | i was talking bout linux naming | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: indeed, pragmao/1 error | 04:47 |
| cehteh | so prolly we both are right | 04:47 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, maemo community should probably get together and try to mod the N900 | 04:48 |
| javispedro | ... | 04:48 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: yes yours first | 04:48 |
| Hurrian | we need to look for ways to obtain bigger PoP OneNAND and LPDDR parts | 04:48 |
| ShadowJK | uSD shows up as mmc0 in powertop | 04:48 |
| javispedro | .... | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: yes | 04:49 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: more ram would be already good enough for me .. | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the romboot would want to boot from controller0, so you want to have uSD there | 04:50 |
| Hurrian | wonder if we'd get in hot water by selling pre-assembled BGA-compatible SoC+RAM+NAND upgrades with the needed x-loaders | 04:51 |
| cehteh | better offer some service to install it | 04:51 |
| ShadowJK | Hurrian, only the people you sold them to | 04:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's btw why linux kernel probes uSD first and so uSD becomes mmc0 in early boot, and later gets renamed | 04:51 |
| cehteh | ok | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | if there's no media on controller0, linux tests controller1, finds eMMC and assigns name mmc0 to it | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is how initial name of your eMMC depends on whether you got uSD inserted or not | 04:53 |
| * ShadowJK imagines it'd be more realistic to manufacture new mainboards with new components... | 04:54 | |
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| ShadowJK | except the modem parts aren't available :/ | 04:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | do a cat /proc/partitions and you see the non-renamed original way things are called | 04:54 |
| Hurrian | ShadowJK, we don't exactly have the files needed for making the boards | 04:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | why must one start from scratch or not contribute to devices like openmoko? | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | 179 0 15663104 mmcblk0 == 16GB uSD; 179 8 31264768 mmcblk1 == 32GB eMMC | 04:55 |
| Hurrian | it's a lot easier to sell pre-assembled small parts to "teh 1337 hw h4xx0rz" on tmo | 04:56 |
| cehteh | btw where can one turn of that the pin entry dialog shows the numbers as you press them? | 04:56 |
| Hurrian | psycho_oreos, openmoko people want GTA04 to fit in old cases | 04:56 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, what kind of successrate in swapping the soc+pop would a skilled (let's assume top 5% in world) engineer get? :-) | 04:56 |
| cehteh | (gta04 with n900 form factor .. muahaha) | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | 30% | 04:56 |
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| psycho_oreos | Hurrian, surely apart from that they want something else ;) | 04:56 |
| Hurrian | when i used an Om device with SHR, my only reaction is: wow that's tiny | 04:57 |
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| Hurrian | it's simply way too small height and width wise | 04:57 |
| ShadowJK | right, so even if Hurrian managed to hire one of the best people to do upgrade service, he'd still be destroying 70% of the devices :-) | 04:58 |
| Hurrian | :) | 04:58 |
| cehteh | so you need to send in 3 device to have a reasonable chance to get one back :P | 04:58 |
| ShadowJK | (and DIY KIT = 99.999% destruction?) | 04:58 |
| cehteh | nokia will love you | 04:59 |
| RiD_ | Guess who (a noob) is back :D http://pastebin.com/USb5pvzD | 04:59 |
| ShadowJK | a motherboard swap would have better success rate :P | 04:59 |
| cehteh | why is 'getbootstate' active? | 04:59 |
| Hurrian | ShadowJK , with all the ESD shields Nokia's put in, a mobo swap better be 100% | 04:59 |
| cehteh | RiD_: and trackerd .. wait until that settles | 05:00 |
| Hurrian | cehteh, part of watchdogs etc | 05:00 |
| cehteh | that eats mmc too | 05:00 |
| Hurrian | oh, The getbootstate command determines the runlevel a maemo system boots into. | 05:00 |
| Hurrian | interesting, as it never goes into anything but init 5 on startup | 05:01 |
| cehteh | RiD_: and your device is still overclocked | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: god question, I seen it too | 05:01 |
| cehteh | Sleeping for 6 seconds before sampling << mine always want to sleep 11 secs .. no idea hwy | 05:02 |
| RiD_ | cehteh: LoL I can't belive i'm not doing anything the correct way :( | 05:02 |
| RiD_ | Brb. | 05:02 |
| cehteh | :) | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | getbootstate is called in initscripts and terminates immediately | 05:02 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd backup, get original kernel, check again with powertop | 05:03 |
| cehteh | eh does he chat from his device while measuring? :) | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 05:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why he's "back" after running powertop | 05:04 |
| cehteh | well power kernel is ok (at least most of us could compare/verify against that) .. but you have to turn off all overclocking | 05:04 |
| cehteh | who here runs the stock kernel? | 05:04 |
| * ShadowJK | 05:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer | grr ok, I'll boot up T900 (PK) | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: me | 05:05 |
| cehteh | okok | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I wondered if maybe PK47 defconfig is fsckdup, causing USBHOST RET etc | 05:06 |
| cehteh | at least works for me | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't have PK47 otherwise I knew | 05:06 |
| ShadowJK | You can never know, some people wouldn't notice because they think half day battery life is normal N900 or something | 05:07 |
| cehteh | it so much depends on usage | 05:07 |
| cehteh | the day before yesterday i forgot my device in our new flat and left it laying there with skype on and 3g but otherwise idle | 05:08 |
| cehteh | next day the battery was 2/3 full still (and i heared music before so when i left it was prolly 3/4) | 05:09 |
| ShadowJK | Well I mean if people have a bunch of standby-life killing crap installed, and pk is a standby killer, they wont notice much of a difference to standby life after installing pk :P | 05:09 |
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| cehteh | well meanwhile i have my device well enough configured | 05:09 |
| cehteh | but i can also drain battery in no time if i want to | 05:10 |
| RiD | I'm back once again... and http://pastebin.com/Z6Cmbcsg | It's in the stock settings (but powerkernel) | 05:11 |
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| cehteh | sure its stock settings? | 05:11 |
| cehteh | kernel-config show | 05:11 |
| cehteh | (paste that) | 05:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/123061/ <-powertop with friggin thumbnailer running still | 05:12 |
| ShadowJK | wakeups are amazingly low, but the cpu is still not enterig sleep states.. | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | watch the power domain activity breakdown | 05:13 |
| cehteh | sim and memory card removed? | 05:13 |
| RiD | cehteh: Yes. | 05:13 |
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| RiD | cehteh: http://pastebin.com/VKp5uSdK kernel-config show | 05:14 |
| cehteh | ok looks like stock settings | 05:14 |
| cehteh | did you turn off the display while powertop is running? | 05:16 |
| RiD | Yes, lol | 05:16 |
| cehteh | (or even better run powertop over ssh and dont open xterm on the device) | 05:16 |
| cehteh | mhm strange | 05:16 |
| cehteh | well .. send the device to me .. i'd like to have some spare parts :P | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/123062/ that's after thumbnailer/tracker quit | 05:17 |
| RiD | I sure will :) not | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: I hope you didn't install some "optimizer" ? | 05:18 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: what are RET and INA states at power breakdown? | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 05:18 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: no I didn't. With their superb tune up utilities super edition extreme limited whatever names | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ret is bad, ina is good | 05:19 |
| cehteh | names :) | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | inaKTIVE | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | retIRED? | 05:19 |
| cehteh | ah .. hey i am slow today :) | 05:19 |
| cehteh | ok | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway I don't see how USBHOST ever can be anything but INA | 05:20 |
| RiD | So is my best option to reflash the whole device? :( didn't want to do a 3rd time but... | 05:20 |
| * DocScrutinizer plugs in charger to T900 | 05:21 | |
| RiD | better than having 13hours idle battery :D | 05:21 |
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| cehteh | did you ever tried to overclock it more than you did? | 05:21 |
| RiD | As far as i know i went up to 825 | 05:22 |
| RiD | or 850 | 05:22 |
| cehteh | mhm .. well did it worked before that? | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/123063/ PK46 on USB wallcharger | 05:23 |
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| Evanescence | which format of MicroSD card can be supported by Maemo5 ? I formated SD card into FAT32, but system show s that it is not supported. | 05:23 |
| RiD | Yes, it was working perfectly, usual battery life | 05:23 |
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| cehteh | so maybe fried because of overclocking | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: VFAT aka FAT32 should work, if you don't use superfloppy format | 05:24 |
| RiD | haha | 05:24 |
| RiD | reminds me of fried rice :( | 05:24 |
| cehteh | well really .. this could be and then its permanent damange | 05:24 |
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| cehteh | you may try to reflash if that doesnt fix then you have a problem | 05:25 |
| RiD | I will reflash tomorrow or after tomorrow | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: superfloppy would mean you're doing a mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk1 | 05:25 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: what superfloppy format ? I just format SD in Win7 with right click to format | 05:25 |
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| Evanescence | have not | 05:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: correct is mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk1p1 | 05:26 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: Ok, I do it. | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: even in win7 afaik you can choose between two format options | 05:27 |
| RiD | cehteh: I sure hope so that it's not hardware problem. However, if nokia had good warranty service then they could give me a new one with a shiny new screen :D. I'm dreaming too much | 05:27 |
| cehteh | btw backup menu doesnt like my setup .. either it doesnt support ext4 or the mount sequence is not good for it (i didnt looked into details) | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to get a partition table, usually you do this via fdisk | 05:27 |
| cehteh | RiD: overclocking voids warranty and they may deduce that you damaged it by overclocking | 05:28 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: understand now | 05:28 |
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| cehteh | besides, nokia is out of spare devices .. | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: if you don't create partitions and rather format the whole card from block0 to end with a filesystem, then that's called superfloppy | 05:28 |
| RiD | WHAT. D*mn, no more N900s :( | 05:29 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: that's it. I will use fdisk at first. | 05:29 |
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| RiD | cehteh: Wait, then what about if an N900 stops working for a non-overclock reason, would they give you another phone instead? | 05:30 |
| cehteh | yes | 05:30 |
| cehteh | n8 | 05:31 |
| RiD | "It's almost the same!" | 05:31 |
| cehteh | at least timeless got one .. no idea if thats standard practice | 05:31 |
| cehteh | haha yeah | 05:31 |
| cehteh | i'd rather opt for money back :P | 05:31 |
| RiD | and would they do that? Most likely not eh :( | 05:32 |
| RiD | with my money back i could buy a new n900 and still have half of it | 05:32 |
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| cehteh | haha dream on .. money minus usage/expected lifetime bonus .. so 50 Eur now for a n900 :P | 05:33 |
| cehteh | (really dont know) | 05:33 |
| RiD | hat's way too much. They would ask you to pay €50 | 05:33 |
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| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: does Maemo5 support ext4 or ext3 for MicroSD card ? | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | rumour has it ext3 was meant to get support in PR1.3 - I haven't checked, but doubt it | 05:37 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: thx | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: I nevertheless think building "support for ext3" into the mountscripts is easy | 05:38 |
| RiD | well i'm going to sleep now, already a bit late here (03:41). Thanks for all your help | 05:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: should be mentioned on tmo I guess | 05:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, here it's 4:39 | 05:39 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: what is tmo ? | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tmo | 05:39 |
| RiD | talk maemo . org | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | DUH | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot?? | 05:39 |
| Evanescence | good bot | 05:40 |
| RiD | No infobot for tmolol | 05:40 |
| Evanescence | here is 10:40 | 05:40 |
| RiD | He's sleeping | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | she | 05:40 |
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| RiD | It's a she? :o | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-16 04:24:55] [Notify] infobot ist offline (kornbluth.freenode.net). | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 05:41 |
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| villager | DocScrutinizer: ext3 is supported... if it wasn't, the easydebian package wouldn't work so well | 05:41 |
| cehteh | Evanescence: power kernel supports ext4 .. and i am using it on MyDocs and mmc | 05:41 |
| cehteh | its a bit pita to get backups back after a reflash .. i hope i dont have to do that anymore :P | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | villager: we're talking about automount of uSD | 05:42 |
| villager | DocScrutinizer: oh, auto? | 05:42 |
| cehteh | ah yes ext3 is in the stock kernel | 05:42 |
| Evanescence | cehteh: really, thanks, I installed power kernel, and can not startup system... afraid now. | 05:42 |
| cehteh | Evanescence: well i didnt touched the system partitions | 05:42 |
| cehteh | and it needed some surgery to use ext4 | 05:42 |
| cehteh | nokias startup scripts are braindead and broken at best | 05:43 |
| Evanescence | understand, I need to play maemo more. | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I guess we're still talking about uSD | 05:43 |
| cehteh | yes | 05:43 |
| cehteh | and emmc .. mydocs partition | 05:43 |
| cehteh | but not /home | 05:43 |
| RiD | what about homeless n900? | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ext4 on uSD should be trivial with PK, if you're willing to manually mount | 05:44 |
| cehteh | not reformatted to ext4 i meant | 05:44 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes | 05:44 |
| cehteh | and it gives a noticeable performance boost | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: homeless N900 are welcome here, I have a place for each of them | 05:45 |
| cehteh | trivial is subjective .. considering that there are some people which are not linux geeks use a n900 | 05:45 |
| RiD | Just like me, cehteh | 05:46 |
| Evanescence | cehteh: I not geeks... | 05:47 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: The worst decision of NOKIA was to make that dumbass spanish/portuguese keyboard layout. I hate it so much (I'm portuguese) | 05:47 |
| Evanescence | start learning... | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: so get a qwerty keymat | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: I hate the german keymat as well | 05:48 |
| cehteh | send me yours as spare :P | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I need my 4 cursor keys, not äöü | 05:48 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: no local shops here with that, and no chance to buy them online | 05:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why that? | 05:49 |
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| RiD | DocScrutinizer: my left arrow got replaced with a . and , My up arrow got replaced by ç and ^ | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: /proc/filesystems doesn't list ext4 for my T900 PK | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 05:50 |
| cehteh | for a next phone i'd consider to buy one without keyboard (well not n9 .. few years later) | 05:50 |
| cehteh | and then an external bluetooth keyboard | 05:50 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: what's worser is that i have one big usleless key: ñ. portuguese people dont use it :( | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: sure, but why "no chance to order online"? | 05:50 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i saied ext3 is supported by the stock kernel .. ext4 for sure not | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | PL! | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | PK! | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | even | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | pk46 | 05:51 |
| cehteh | ah | 05:51 |
| cehteh | you dont have the module loaded | 05:51 |
| cehteh | modprobe ext4 | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | now we're talking | 05:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yoh | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Evanescence: ^^^ see | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | modprobe ext4 | 05:52 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: I'm underaged and my parents aren't into online shopping so I can't ask them for buy to me. Nor to a friend | 05:52 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: ok | 05:52 |
| cehteh | well you dont need to modprobe it normally .. mount does modprobe on demand (well over udev or whatsnot) | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 05:53 |
| cehteh | but you need to give -text4 not automatic fs probing | 05:53 |
| cehteh | (or fstab) | 05:54 |
| Evanescence | DocScrutinizer: ext3 is supported | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you just do a mount -t ext4 /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/card | 05:54 |
| cehteh | RiD: you dont know anyone who can buy one for you in portugal? | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: I even heard online shops have rather relaxed age checks | 05:55 |
| RiD | RiD: nah, I live in a ghost town (sarcasm). All my friends are tractor drivers and are farmers | 05:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: you'd need a paypal account though | 05:55 |
| cehteh | if he doesnt buy pr0n or weapons then there is no age verification at all .. unless you want to buy with a credit card | 05:55 |
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| RiD | DocScrutinizer: I do have a paypal account, with 0,01€ in it | 05:58 |
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| cehteh | thats more than me | 05:59 |
| cehteh | i withdrawn all money from it and wanted to cancel it .. but unfortunally canceling it requires more paperwork than opening one | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: transfer some 22€ to it, so you can pay the keymat, and fine you are | 05:59 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: But you can put money there whenever you want, I can't. that cent was donated xD | 05:59 |
| cehteh | lol | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: you don't have a friend with a bank account, or even you got a bank account? | 06:00 |
| RiD | RiD: I actually got a bank acc today | 06:01 |
| RiD | still waiting for activation, and all that paper stuff | 06:01 |
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| cehteh | so use that then | 06:02 |
| RiD | Not yet, have to wait. And because portugal banks are so amazing, it's going to take a while | 06:03 |
| RiD | Today the only thing you could see on tv was "moody's cut down 7 portuguese banks ratings to a considered trash category". Quite funny but NOT good | 06:04 |
| cehteh | haha DocScrutinizer for you: http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/Lennart-Poettering-BSD-Isnt-Relevant-Anymore | 06:04 |
| jonwil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Resources | 06:04 |
| jonwil | Anyone want to provide feedback on that wiki page I made? | 06:04 |
| jonwil | Or want to add anything to it? | 06:04 |
| Termana | Good morning | 06:04 |
| cehteh | jonwil: nice | 06:06 |
| jonwil | Tried to add everything I could find relavent to Fremantle and the N900 | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I definitely will, but not now as I'm getting a bit tired | 06:08 |
| RiD | I'm off for now. Good night or day, whatever your timezone is. | 06:08 |
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| cehteh | same as yours :P | 06:08 |
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| RiD | cehteh: UK? :D | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm +1h I guess | 06:09 |
| cehteh | ah no one hour off .. germany | 06:09 |
| RiD | ah | 06:09 |
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| jonwil | ok, I am going to post a note about my wiki page to the mailing list | 06:13 |
| jonwil | in case it helps people out | 06:13 |
| jonwil | and/or people have more info for it | 06:13 |
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| jonwil | so yeah lets see if anyone else has anything to add to my wiki page :P | 06:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: awesome work | 06:40 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 06:49 |
| jonwil | Lets hope it leads to some people comming out of the woodwork and posting some more info to the page :) | 06:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 06:52 |
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| ML-37 | stupid google chrome crash again rand, | 07:12 |
| ML-37 | wrong channel | 07:12 |
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| ML-37 | whats up doc? | 07:34 |
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| RST38h | Hehe, Lennart Poettering fully confirming my expectations =) | 07:55 |
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| Sicelo | /sb end | 07:58 |
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| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Kootol-joins-Lodsys-as-a-patent-troll/ <-- seriously... the US still hasn't figured out that patents are bad? | 09:43 |
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| robbiethe1st | Nah, we make our money off that stuff. | 09:48 |
| robbiethe1st | Remember, it's the big companies that make the laws here | 09:48 |
| robbiethe1st | </cynical> | 09:48 |
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| jonwil | bah, cant figure out these last 3 functions in libconnui_cellular :( | 09:57 |
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| user__ | hallo | 11:06 |
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| * jonwil wishes he could find someone (or something) to vent his frustration at over these damn connui functions | 12:00 | |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 12:03 |
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| jonwil | libconnui and libconnui_cell are some of the most complex-to-figure-out libraries I have ever tried to reverse engineer | 12:08 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: ping | 13:58 |
| MohammadAG | how do I escape a & with web stuff? | 13:59 |
| robbiethe1st | & | 13:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dong | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: pong | 14:22 |
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| MohammadAG | instead of escaping each special character, can I just use ""? | 14:23 |
| MohammadAG | message="test&test" | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | rather than message=test&test | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | in html? no | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | URLs | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | or curl | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | a URL isn't per se rendered | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you pass it to a html renderer then " " doesn't help anything | 14:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same thing for RTF | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't need the escapes in the filename.rtf, but inside the file | 14:27 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: trying to modify the calltimer script to take into account the free numbers | 14:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yay | 14:29 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: select * from db where id not in('123','456'); wondering how to specify '123', '456' as a shell variable? | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | get a new table in the database, with all the free number prefixes | 14:30 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: no dont want to touch the database. | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | make a new one | 14:30 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: that is a possibility. but specifying numbers in the shell script is the easiest | 14:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tricky | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | with a database table it was sth like>>a outer join b where not (a.number = b.number)<< | 14:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (sorry, waiting for coffee to kick in so this is probably *very* "sth like" and buggy) | 14:38 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: yes, with a separate db i can work it out but i want to avoid that route | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | everything else gets nasty | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can call external functions in sqlite, afaik | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've also seen funny hacker trolls assembling SQL commands dynamically | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | which feels very very awkward | 14:44 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: guess it will be hardcoded values then :) | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, given you're caling that via sql cmdline, you have a shell that expands $var prior to passing the cmdline to an executable. Exploit that | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | it will be hardcoded nevertheless, but a bit better readable | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | select * from db where id not in($notThose); | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | notThose='123;456' | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think you made up that syntax anyway ;-D | 14:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | notThose='\'123\';\'456\'' even | 14:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw you'll get extreme headache with 0800xxxx etc | 14:51 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: notThose='\'123\';\'456\''; echo $notThose error | 14:53 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: dont think 0800xxx numbers are free anyway | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe a *completely* different approach was better: try to find a way to ask your carrier's account infra about what's your balance right now | 14:53 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: but i could use NOT LIKE 0800% to match them | 14:54 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: tried that. not possible | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | echo error? | 14:54 |
| arvut | hi, what is the normal battery temp for the n900? @ normal to high usage.. | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I leave it up to you to figure out how to escape the ticks correctly | 14:55 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: yes | 14:55 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: yeah, escapes not working :) | 14:55 |
| arvut | mine is 85, but I'm sitting in the hot noon/afternoon sun | 14:55 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: not sure why you put a ; in there | 14:56 |
| arvut | 85 degrees celsius | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: for your leisure: file:///home/jr/Desktop/downloads/abs-guide.pdf ;-D | 14:56 |
| ShadowJK | arvut, that's extremely high | 14:56 |
| ShadowJK | how are you measuring? | 14:56 |
| arvut | ok, better cool it down b4 device melts then | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | there IS NO bat temp readout | 14:56 |
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| arvut | healthcheck says so | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | healthcheck lies | 14:57 |
| arvut | oh.. | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's most likely the bat gauge die temp, like always | 14:57 |
| ShadowJK | it's more of an internal ambient temp when not charging | 14:58 |
| arvut | well, the device is hot so 85 would be assumable | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless 85°C is way too hot | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | except for CPU temp maybe | 14:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LiIon cells may die at 70°C | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | the watning always says "DO NOT HEAT UP TO >= 100°C" | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | warning* | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah my first N810 battery died after 2 weeks in jeans pocket in german summer | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think cells die even earlier, at maybe 70° or 80° | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | Well :-) | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | and "die" here means internal short, swell, vent, possibly explode and catch fire | 15:01 |
| ShadowJK | iirc thermal runaway is slightly north of 100, and it's enough if a miniscule part exceeds the thermal runaway threshold | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on type of separator membrane | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | lipo undergoing thermal runaway. | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | (in this case due to mechanical damage) | 15:03 |
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| ShadowJK | which is why smallest contaminants or excessive out of spec wear (trickle charging, overdischarging) can be dangerous causing local hotspots | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly that will happen as well when separator melts instead of mechanical puncture | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | may happen at 80°, usually at 100° | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | cheap ebay batteries have paper separators ;p | 15:04 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: easypeasy | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | I have a 3S LiPo I accidentally discharged to .8V/cell. I should try charge it @40W :) | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, just noticed I gave trumee a local URL | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: http://www.tldp.org/guides.html#abs | 15:08 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: yeah noticed that | 15:09 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: anyway i have updated the script, numbers can be set like FREE='"123","456"' | 15:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cool, how about wildcards? | 15:10 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: not needed :) | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 15:11 |
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| * trumee recommend DocScrutinizer to read that book :p | 15:11 | |
| ruskie | lol | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | you mean I should have done it right first take, like '\\\'123\\\',\\\'456\\\'' ? | 15:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | YOU should have suggested proper string tagging, with " instead ' | 15:14 |
| * ruskie wonders what the debate is all about | 15:14 | |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: just kidding :) | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-16 13:30:10] <trumee> DocScrutinizer: select * from db where id not in('123','456'); wondering how to specify '123', '456' as a shell variable? | 15:15 |
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| ruskie | ahh | 15:15 |
| ruskie | VAR="'123','456'" | 15:15 |
| ruskie | should work | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, probably | 15:16 |
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| trumee | i think both work with sql | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's NOT about SQL, it's first instance about shell var expansion and evaluation | 15:17 |
| ShadowJK | ah, 130C kaboom. "short excursions" to max 60C | 15:17 |
| * ShadowJK found some random specs | 15:17 | |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: *node* | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: again, depends on type of separator membrane, also on quality of that membrane *after* cell got built | 15:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: moo | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 15:20 |
| infobot | ~pong | 15:20 |
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| RiD | Has anyone here replaced a keymat? If yes, how was the quality of the new one? | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I know Dibblah has - sort-of. | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | But he's away. | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | And he diddn't really replace it. | 15:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | He took his out, carefully ironed it flat after the monkey in the repair centre that last fixed it mis-re-installed it with wrinkles!!! and put it back. | 15:27 |
| RiD | LOL, they don't even repair phones properly?! Amazing... | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/escapingsection.html 5.3 is epic | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I did | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's simple | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | loosen 2 screws, carefully lift and pull out the keymat frame, swap keymat, insert latches of frame at upper end, then close and screw in the two torx again | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I thing dibblah ironed the domesheet | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | not the keymat | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | think* | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:35 |
| jonwil | bah, if I can find out these connui functions, I can have a first pass at Cell Broadcast SMS ready in a couple hours tops. But I am stuck :( | 15:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: maemo is carefully crafted so you finally always run into deadends when doing such ambitioned (word?) stuff. It's for sure a fight and a battle to win, to get it done nevertheless | 15:47 |
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| jonwil | The #1 problem seems to be that there is a total lack of guys in the reverse engineering community that know ARM linux | 15:49 |
| jonwil | :P | 15:49 |
| psycho_oreos | apart from qwerty12 whom left ages ago ;) | 15:50 |
| psycho_oreos | he wrote stuff like fmtxd | 15:50 |
| RST38h | ...with over $14 billion in sales in 2008, antipsychotics have become the single top-selling therapeutic class of prescription drugs in the U.S., surpassing drugs used to treat high cholesterol and acid reflux... | 15:51 |
| RST38h | Ambitious, Doc | 15:51 |
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| jonwil | well Cornelius Hald created libhildon-extras1-time-zone-chooser-dev so someone out there knows something about this stuff... | 15:51 |
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| RST38h | He is probably some relative of hald daemon and this has inside info | 15:53 |
| RST38h | s/this/thus | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: thanks | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | dizzy today | 16:06 |
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| Termana | wow, who fscked Freenode? | 16:17 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Seen an interview by our dear friend Lennart? | 16:19 |
| RST38h | Doc: Here, enjoy: http://linuxfr.org/nodes/86687/comments/1249943 | 16:19 |
| RST38h | Looks like he has bestowed another wonderful project on us (+ read him calling BSD a toy =)) | 16:20 |
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| jonwil | anyone heard of a Faheem Pervez? | 16:29 |
| psycho_oreos | he's qwerty12 | 16:30 |
| jonwil | ok, thats the guy listed in the hildon-time-zone-chooser header file | 16:31 |
| jonwil | so presumably he was the one that reverse engineered the thing | 16:31 |
| Venemo | jonwil, yep | 16:32 |
| Venemo | jonwil, he did ragequit the community a bit more than a year ago | 16:32 |
| jonwil | damn | 16:32 |
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| jonwil | There goes all hope of finding anyone in the community with any interest in figuring out how the closed source bits work or how to call them :P | 16:33 |
| jonwil | well interest/skills :P | 16:33 |
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| jonwil | May as well give up on CBSMS then if I cant crack this damn library :( | 16:37 |
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| jonwil | So far the only changes to my info post have been some people fixing typos :P | 16:44 |
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| arvut | DocScrutinizer: about earlier discussion about battery temp: I think 85 is rather hot for a CPU too, but I'm not sure whats the "normal" temp for an ARM A8. but most gpu's and desktop cpus dies around 100 | 16:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Interest, no skills alas | 16:55 |
| * arvut goes away again | 16:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | arvut: There is no CPU temperature meter that works at all. | 16:55 |
| SpeedEvil | arvut: The only temperature measury thingy is near the battery connectors | 16:55 |
| arvut | I know, but doc mentioned that 85 would be a possible cpu temp when we discussed bat. temp. | 16:56 |
| arvut | right, and that temp said 85 when I were sitting in the sun. | 16:56 |
| arvut | degrees C I would assume, as fahrenheit and kelvin would be too low | 16:57 |
| arvut | sure, 85f wold be nice. not sure how nice 85k would be tho :P | 16:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Sounds possible | 16:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I would ahve thought it would have shyt down by then | 16:58 |
| SpeedEvil | I think my max is 65C | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | arvut: it's a mostly meaningless bit of info. About CPU: the standard OMAP is specified to 95°C, the MIL(?) variant to 105° | 16:58 |
| arvut | yeah, took it indoors instead. sysload is around 1.5 on all 3 | 16:58 |
| arvut | MIL? | 16:58 |
| jonwil | military spec | 16:59 |
| arvut | thought this phone had a amr a8 cortex | 16:59 |
| arvut | aha | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | look 2nd link: | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 16:59 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 16:59 |
| arvut | why? arm a8 isnt omap is it? | 17:00 |
| arvut | is it relevant info? | 17:00 |
| SpeedEvil | 57C actually | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 17:00 |
| arvut | mine is 59c now | 17:01 |
| arvut | indoors ftw :) | 17:02 |
| psycho_oreos | omap I think is a set of specific instructions that TI included | 17:02 |
| arvut | aha | 17:02 |
| psycho_oreos | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP | 17:04 |
| RiD | I'd like to see a burning N900, just not my N900 | 17:08 |
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| Shapeshifter | some people are talking about a "portrait homescreen" in the cssu. Where do I enable such a thing? | 17:12 |
| Shapeshifter | I have the cssu installed. | 17:12 |
| Shapeshifter | I think they mean just the menu.. | 17:14 |
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| psycho_oreos | menu and some apps have portrait capability | 17:16 |
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| RiD | Shapeshifter: most likely just the menu. But there was an old python script somewhere that forced everything to rotate, even the homescreen. Of course, the widgets and the stuff wasn't correctly placed when rotated to portrait | 17:17 |
| psycho_oreos | though I did see `portrait homescreen' after ending a phonecall, it was only for a brief moment before the homescreen was rotated back into landscape mode | 17:17 |
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| RiD | I don't get the big hype around portrait mode, when I bought my N900 I knew that I hadn't any portrait mode and I would live without it. Despite that portrait mode can be usefull in some applications (such as tetris, lol) | 17:20 |
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| psycho_oreos | I think portrait really makes N900 users think that other people may confuse them as owning an iphone ;) | 17:21 |
| RiD | LOL, all we need is a pinky theme to match iPhone's look and cut the keyboard of the n900 | 17:22 |
| psycho_oreos | but no otherwise portrait has other uses such as conversations and what not could be benefitted in portrait mode | 17:22 |
| psycho_oreos | yup N9 will be just that, if they'll deliver it in pink ;) | 17:23 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't really need portrait mode but there are moments where I really can only use one hand and navigation can be awkward in those moments | 17:24 |
| RiD | I do like the N9's look and interface idea. It's something different, not like Androids where almost every of them have the same UI, except HTC and some Sony Ericsson | 17:24 |
| psycho_oreos | same UI = iOS was hardly different in terms of that comparison :) | 17:24 |
| RiD | Yes, Android copied iOS looks, and now iOS 5 has the Top bar thing from Android, give them one more year and they'll have the exact same UI | 17:26 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm sure Apple won't give up slapping them with lawsuits, afterall they're bar none versus Oracle themselves | 17:27 |
| psycho_oreos | patent this, patent that.. hey you dare copy my idea? I sue! | 17:27 |
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| Shapeshifter | well, you can all look forward to some metro ui, amirite | 17:27 |
| RiD | No thanks, metro UI isn't for me. It might be good for other people | 17:28 |
| psycho_oreos | metro UI? never heard | 17:28 |
| RiD | It's WP7 ui | 17:28 |
| psycho_oreos | ew | 17:28 |
| psycho_oreos | tiling? | 17:28 |
| psycho_oreos | apparently the videos of N950 with harmattan had one small footage of that metro UI lookalike in swype UI | 17:29 |
| psycho_oreos | er I mean tiles | 17:29 |
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| RiD | Anyways I'm charging my n900 to flash it later. Hope everything turns fine, if not, i'm screwed | 17:33 |
| Shapeshifter | what do they do to make phones thinner? except saving energy and using smaller batteries | 17:33 |
| ruskie | make them shapeshift ;) | 17:34 |
| RiD | Shapeshifter: they remove components. Such as the cpu, etc. And you end up with a... plastic toy | 17:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: Redesigning the structure to be stiffer, and removing extraneous parts. | 17:37 |
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| Tronic | switching to smaller connectors and sims etc. | 17:38 |
| cehteh | n900 is thick because the camera is on top of the mainboard, if they could have designed a hole or side-by-side it would be thiner .. also the slideout mechanic and the touchscreen add extra thicknes | 17:38 |
| Tronic | oled is thinner than lcd | 17:39 |
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| cehteh | RiD_: flashed? | 17:40 |
| Tronic | physical keyboard and slide mechanism make phone a lot thicker | 17:40 |
| RiD_ | cehteh: Nope, charging battery | 17:40 |
| RiD_ | and be right back, changing my name to RiD. (without the _ lol) | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly I couldn't care less about the 3mm less on N950 vs N900 | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | OLED isn't inherantly thinner than LCE | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | LCD | 17:41 |
| cehteh | well theoretically it can be .. same for epaper | 17:41 |
| * jonwil wishes vendors would start making a wider range of handsets with physical keyboard | 17:41 | |
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| jonwil | Next Google Nexus phone should have physical keyboard IMO | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | OLED needs way tighter sealing | 17:42 |
| RiD | cehteh: I did installed the stock kernel to see if there was any different, but it still doesn't get past C2 state. So I'll be completely flashing it today. If it doesn't fix it, i'm screwed and i'll have to live with 5 spare batteries per day | 17:42 |
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| cehteh | and with newer technology which can integrate the touchscreen on the same substrate glass/plastic as the display | 17:42 |
| GAN900 | Eeeewww Android | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: you can do that with LCD too | 17:42 |
| jonwil | I have never owned handset without physical keyboard | 17:43 |
| jonwil | and have no plans to start now | 17:43 |
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| cehteh | they also going to use extremely thin glass as substrate 0.2mm or so .. then you add some gorilla glas as front and you are below 1.5mm for the display | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: ++ | 17:43 |
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| cehteh | well i would consider a external BT keyboard on the next device | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | which is BS as you have two batteries to maintain, two power buttons, whatnot | 17:44 |
| cehteh | are there small but useable bt keyboards? (almost same footprint as the n900) .. certainly somewhere | 17:44 |
| cehteh | doesnt matter much with good power saving the keyboard battery would last months | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe you're right, maybe not | 17:45 |
| jonwil | A BT keyboard is too hard to use when you are sitting on a bus | 17:45 |
| jonwil | or waiting for a bus | 17:46 |
| cehteh | my BT mouse battery lasts quite long | 17:46 |
| jonwil | or otherwise sitting somewhere with no flat surface to put things on | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | my BT headset is dead after some 20h of on-time without using it | 17:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: indeed, a kbd not mounted tightly to "the screen" is useless most of the time | 17:47 |
| cehteh | keyboads dont need to maintain a laser and send hundreds of updates a second only keycodes are send, and need only to wake the embedded processor if actually a key is pressed | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | headset doesn't even do that | 17:48 |
| cehteh | my old wireless keyboard which i use very rarely but is permanently on has batteries which last since 5 years or so now (not BT) | 17:48 |
| cehteh | that shows how efficent one can design such things | 17:48 |
| cehteh | BT eats a bit more .. i guess there is some keepalive/pinging/beacon going on | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a new BT-lowPower spec that's not yet widely supported but shows there *are* issues with normal BT | 17:49 |
| cehteh | well my mouse is permanently on and connected to my laptop and the battery lasts about 2 months | 17:49 |
| cehteh | single AA cell | 17:49 |
| cehteh | so i think battery isnt really a concern with external keyboard | 17:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | BT mice support very low powers | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | they do it by turnig off when they detect no motion | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | and then waking on button | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, there are two points: a) your laptop has "infinite" power so the RX can take a lot of the load to relieve TX. b) your mouse only activates when moved | 17:51 |
| cehteh | well ... they have constantly check for movement, even in low power mode where it takes some milliseconds to wake up | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: no they don't | 17:51 |
| Shapeshifter | biggest problem with earpieces is, tha you look like some crazy person talking to yourself. | 17:51 |
| cehteh | sure how would it detect movement then? | 17:51 |
| Shapeshifter | or like some business prick | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: If you happen to have a visible light one, you see this. | 17:51 |
| cehteh | laser one | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: mechanically | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: In motion, it's bright. | 17:52 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: huh? | 17:52 |
| cehteh | accelerometer to wake? | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: After 5 seconds or so, it goes from full brightness to a low power mode where it checks every 10ms | 17:52 |
| RiD | Shapeshift: imagine a 14 year old using an earpiece | 17:52 |
| cehteh | i should check that .. put the mouse stationary over a surface i can drag | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: then it goes to every 100ms for a few mins, and then button-wake | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: Done right, it's not perceptible | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: as you usually joggle the mouse slightly when you put your hand on it | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have to literally kick my mouse when it gone suspend | 17:53 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: its always full brigthness .. but pulsed, after some time they just query it on a lower rate with more idle time inetween | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: indeed | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I was simplifying | 17:53 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: me too but i was always thinking thats because there is some software not to fully wake it on small movements to save more power, only come up fully for continous movement | 17:54 |
| Shapeshifter | RiD: must be a dealer | 17:54 |
| RiD | Shapeshifter: no, it's me | 17:55 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i am setting up a test-rig to verify your claims :P | 17:55 |
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| Shapeshifter | RiD: you're a dealer? | 17:56 |
| RiD | Shapeshifter: No, but i'm 14 and I'm clean, I guess... | 17:57 |
| cehteh | mhm is there some 'lsbt' to monitor whats going on on the bt interface? | 17:57 |
| Shapeshifter | RiD: why are you using an earpiece? | 17:59 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: :P http://imgur.com/5Axyz | 18:00 |
| cehteh | now, how long to wait? :) | 18:00 |
| RiD | Shapeshifter: Last year i had many people calling me, and it was annoying to grab the n900 out of the pocket everytime | 18:00 |
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| arvut | RiD: ++ for that =) | 18:02 |
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| RiD | Shapeshifter: I kind of was organizing an event with my friends, and once i almost let the n900 felt (it never felt, luckily) while trying to answer the call. It almost gave me an heart attack, so I decided to play safe | 18:03 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: http://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Keyboard-Computers-Included/dp/B0044IGBOI | 18:03 |
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| cehteh | .. now i like that iphones have no keyboard .. else no one would produce those :P | 18:04 |
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| cehteh | mhm ok i test the mouse thing when i leave .. doesnt go that fast into sleep | 18:06 |
| RiD | arvut: i don't use it anymore, I barely recieve a call nowadays. Thanks god for that, because people on the street always looked at me with weird faces, like if I was a paranoid. It wasn't exactly amusing | 18:07 |
| cehteh | lol | 18:07 |
| cehteh | i've mountes my n900 on my bike handlebar | 18:07 |
| cehteh | and then called my wife while biking, people looked strange then too | 18:08 |
| RiD | I don't have balls for that, what if it suddenly falls | 18:09 |
| cehteh | must not :) | 18:10 |
| cehteh | well i have the otterbox meanwhile, and before that i made my own case, both protect it quite well | 18:11 |
| cehteh | once it sliped out of my pocket and crashed on the street while biking | 18:11 |
| cehteh | good that i had the case, no dent, no scratch | 18:11 |
| cehteh | so pocket is more dangerous than handlebar | 18:12 |
| RiD | I also have a case for it and always use it. After all an N900 isn't cheap, and now it's not so easy to find a brand new one | 18:12 |
| cehteh | well and the build quality is reasonable good, it survives a lot misuse .. sans the USB connector problem :P | 18:13 |
| RiD | I'm also a bit freaky about the USB, mine already "balances" a bit | 18:13 |
| * ruskie knocks on wood... no usb issues yet | 18:14 | |
| cehteh | if your warranty is expired you may consider to fix it (or give a shit about warranty and do it now) | 18:14 |
| cehteh | if it comes loose then its often too late when the pads and traces get ripped off | 18:14 |
| cehteh | here neither but as soon the warranty period is over i will enforce it | 18:15 |
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| RiD | It's not exactly loose here, and I hope it won't fail. I better not try to fix it, I would end up with a burned N900 | 18:16 |
| jonwil | After loosing one N900 to a busted USB, I am VERY careful about mine | 18:17 |
| jonwil | to ensure it doesn't get damaged | 18:17 |
| thopiekar | hi.. after enabling haze(msn) on my N900's chat app i'm missing many facebook avatars in my contacts list | 18:17 |
| thopiekar | is there a way to fix that? | 18:17 |
| thopiekar | jonwil: after I found out it could happen I always care about it.. | 18:18 |
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| RiD | ah | 18:24 |
| RiD | Oops, wrong page | 18:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | cehteh: how do you fix it if it's not lose? | 18:52 |
| Shapeshifter | cehteh: simply apply superglue to hold the port in place without fixing the connector? | 18:52 |
| cehteh | no soldering | 18:53 |
| cehteh | (the sides against the groundplanes) | 18:53 |
| cehteh | superglue wont work | 18:53 |
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| cehteh | i am considering to drill small holes beneath the port and then use epoxy and kevlar to fix it | 18:53 |
| cehteh | but i have no idea if there are traces yet so that may be dangerous | 18:54 |
| Shapeshifter | cehteh: so maybe it's not wrong to do this preemtively even if the port seems fine? | 18:54 |
| cehteh | maybe the soldering is enough | 18:54 |
| cehteh | yes, but it voids warranty | 18:54 |
| cehteh | there is a pic somewhere on tmo | 18:54 |
| cehteh | dont try with superglue | 18:55 |
| Shapeshifter | meh. I have 2 and the first has no warranty anymore | 18:55 |
| cehteh | it will nit glue to the soldering mask and not well to the casing too | 18:55 |
| cehteh | but it will suck into the connector and damage it | 18:55 |
| cehteh | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 18:56 |
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| cehteh | you live in 1 year warranty land? :) | 18:58 |
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| kerio | cehteh: he lives on planet earth | 19:11 |
| kerio | nokia is not repairing N900s anymore | 19:11 |
| cehteh | i know but there is still some warranty period by law | 19:12 |
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| cehteh | so they have to compensate the customer *somehow* | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | do NOT use glue on USB receptacle! it's useless and causes lots of mess and problems. Use proper soldering! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 19:13 |
| kerio | sure, with something that's not *comparable* with the n900 | 19:13 |
| cehteh | actually they have to repair if possible | 19:13 |
| kerio | they give you a N8 | 19:13 |
| kerio | which is worse than a n900 except for the marketing | 19:13 |
| cehteh | n8 isnt a substitute for me | 19:13 |
| cehteh | i wont accept that | 19:13 |
| kerio | you're SOL then :) | 19:13 |
| kerio | it's a substitute for them | 19:14 |
| cehteh | well .. i really wonder how much you get when you ask for money back then | 19:14 |
| cehteh | and in germany (maybe also the rest of europe) the dealer is your contact person for warranty, not nokia | 19:14 |
| cehteh | i didnt heared yet how they handle it if you dont accept a n8 but really thats no substitute for a developer who buyed the device because of linux development | 19:16 |
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| ShadowJK | This battery in spareN900 sat empty for half a year. Now internal resistance is about .5 ohm. Quite brutal voltage collapse under any load :-) | 20:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | IIRC my dynamic resistance is about .2R | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yeah, sure way to kill LiIon | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I don't even bother anymore to try and recharge batteries that I know were at depleted state for longer than 1..2months | 20:21 |
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| * ShadowJK gets .25 ish for his daily use battery | 20:23 | |
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| SpeedEvil | I need to get a couple off ebay | 20:25 |
| ShadowJK | why | 20:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Because it's getting so I need to do ~flatbatrecover more and more | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Though the raw capacity is surprisingly good still. | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | (~1185) | 20:27 |
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| ShadowJK | japod from dx, or blue scud from lucy_lu (or something like that) on alibaba are cheap and excellent performers in dr-frost's battery survey | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | 145 cycles, 1230mAh, .25R-ish on current daily batt :) | 20:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | DO you have a proper ESRmeter? | 20:29 |
| ShadowJK | no :( | 20:29 |
| * ShadowJK just does './bq27200.sh 1' and takes stable/repeating voltage & current measurements during charge and during discharge | 20:30 | |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 20:30 |
| ShadowJK | Oh actually one of my lipo chargers also has some meter, but I've never had it hooked up to phone batteries | 20:31 |
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| RiD | battery charged | 21:01 |
| RiD | time to back up EMMC and reflash it :3 | 21:02 |
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| Macer | heh | 21:04 |
| Macer | at least your battery charges | 21:04 |
| Macer | i am still waiting for a new usb port to show up in the mail | 21:04 |
| RiD | Macer: that's not good :( | 21:05 |
| RiD | Small question, what would happen if your PC fails (sudden blackout or whatever) while reflashing the N900? | 21:06 |
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| Macer | then a black hole forms over it and all reality in the range of the mass of the phone ceases to exist | 21:06 |
| Macer | i'm pretty sure the phone won't boot but you can still flash it | 21:07 |
| Macer | meaning it doesn't mess up its ability to flash if that happens | 21:07 |
| RiD | Nice, but i preferred your first reply | 21:07 |
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| Macer | haha | 21:07 |
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| Macer | some people would do that on purpose if that happneed just to see :) | 21:08 |
| RiD | For sure, and all N900's left would be bought by a psycho guy that wants to destroy our Earth | 21:08 |
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| Macer | doing stuff like that promotes you from psycho guy to super villan | 21:09 |
| Macer | ;) | 21:09 |
| RiD | If he destroys the whole Earth then what's left to do? Kill austronauts? | 21:10 |
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| ludens | could anyone recommend good tweaks/add-ons for the MicroB browser? | 21:16 |
| RiD | ludens: all i use is adblockplus | 21:16 |
| ludens | ok | 21:17 |
| RiD | ludens: If you don't know what it is, take a look at the official page http://adblockplus.org/en/ . There are instructions to install it on N900 somewhere, let me take a look | 21:17 |
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| ludens | i have it already but thanks RiD | 21:18 |
| ludens | someone talked about some add-on that made it a lot faster | 21:19 |
| ludens | is MicroB compatible with firefox add-ons? whats the deal there | 21:20 |
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| RiD | Some might be compatible, try older versions. But you're on your own | 21:20 |
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| Shapeshifter | RiD: do you wear your ear piece in class? | 22:15 |
| Shapeshifter | RiD: you would be king | 22:15 |
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| RiD | Shapeshifter: never thought on doing that, it sure would be fun, but not worth trying | 22:19 |
| cehteh | RiD: flashed meanwhile? | 22:20 |
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| RiD | cehteh: unfortunately not, had a hard time trying to find the cable. Guess what, the cleaning lady put it on the garage | 22:20 |
| cehteh | lol | 22:21 |
| RiD | cehteh: and the garage is full of cables, pc partes, looks like a tech junk. | 22:21 |
| RiD | PC Parts* | 22:22 |
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| RiD | And... i have to eat now. | 22:23 |
| * RiD is away from keyboard. | 22:23 | |
| cehteh | i have a 'hands off" policy for the office & cleaning lady .. plus hotglued important cables into the sockets and fixed important switches with hotglue too | 22:23 |
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| RiD | Ah finally, everything is backed up and i'm ready to be sad | 23:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | eww, the n9 has a pentile display? yuck | 23:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | it's amazing that people don't notice. Like when they praised the Samsung galaxy s for its display... fonts look like crap, lines and shapes are all blurry. the only thing that's good about these displays are contrast and colors for looking at pictures. | 23:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, pentile is such bullshit. | 23:12 |
| RiD | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nVGyx975u38/TNCIR2KMFrI/AAAAAAAAIeg/_-NRsL7w3Zs/s400/Samsung+Omnia+7+AMOLED+PenTile.jpg | 23:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Puke | 23:16 |
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| Shapeshifter | terrible | 23:16 |
| Shapeshifter | and so obvious. being used to the n900 I'm always surprised when I see a pentile display on a colleagues phone | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was the iPhone screen. | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/was/want/ | 23:20 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: I want the iPhone screen. | 23:20 |
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| RiD | Finally flashed it, it's booting now | 23:23 |
| RiD | Nokia Hands... Bienvenido | 23:25 |
| RiD | LOL, It's spanish. Last time i flashed it was english | 23:25 |
| RiD | Mueva las manecillas del reloj con el dedo para establecer la hora correcta. | 23:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RiD: locale on fistboot is from CAL | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | firstboot* | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | less -f /dev/mtd1ro | 23:40 |
| Macer | hm | 23:47 |
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