IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-07-12

cehtehnah it should deliver 850 ma00:00
cehtehit prolly just some power spikes which it cant handle00:00
cehtehi really try next time with a buffering capacitor00:00
DocScrutinizerthere *are no* power spikes in N900 charging00:00
ShadowJKchecked /home/user/MyDocs/charge.log?00:01
cehtehyes00:01
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DocScrutinizerthe charger chip is incapable of drawing significantly more than 850mA from USB00:01
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DocScrutinizeryou're for sure better off placing that capacitor on prinary side of your bikecharger's reulator circuit00:02
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cehtehhttp://pastebin.com/i9WnL4ww00:03
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i consider both sides :)00:03
ShadowJKIt seems kinda sensitive to load regulation of the power supply. iirc one guy did a buck/boost circuit with a mcu, and the mcu wasn't fast enough to regulate voltage00:03
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cehtehwell the bike charger has 2 parts .. one rectifier and limiting circruit directly connected to the dynamo00:04
* ShadowJK also failed the other day to make his devnOPP charge from 4*aaa -> ca-14600:04
cehtehand then then battery charge and output box00:04
cehtehShadowJK: i tried the ca146 .. but it gets to hot to feel comfortable00:05
cehtehif i need a pizza oven, i'd bought one00:05
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DocScrutinizerhaha00:05
DocScrutinizerheard CA146A tend to burn down sometimes00:06
cehtehit works but it feels like heating 50% energy away00:06
cehtehyes00:06
ShadowJKhah00:06
DocScrutinizerwonder why Nokia is so concerned about N900 maybe overloading chargers with taking unadvertised 500mA00:06
ShadowJKbq24150 is for sure not getting clean power00:06
DocScrutinizerwhile same time burning down houses with CA146A00:07
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cehtehmy first idea was a rectifier, cap and zener and then use the ca-146 to charge n900 from the bike hub .. but really i want to have some current left for charging than heating the environment00:07
DocScrutinizerhaha00:08
ShadowJKbtw you can get ca146 for like 2 bucks a piece from china, i wonder how many meltdowns have been from the redesigned-for-cheap version :P00:08
DocScrutinizerlol00:08
cehtehmaybe we shall sell extra heatsink packs :)00:08
ShadowJKcehteh, what's your current setup?00:08
DocScrutinizersilicon oil full suspension00:08
cehtehShadowJK: http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/reecharge-power-pack  bought that because it looked promising and somewhat works00:09
cehteh(actuallc it works most of the time, but sometimes charging fails and then for some time in a row)00:09
cehtehand nothing of the parts getting warm00:09
cehtehso no big losses00:09
DocScrutinizercehteh: bike dynamos are terrible in any respect00:09
cehtehyes i know00:10
cehtehas said next i try to add a cap, may help a bit00:10
ShadowJKcehteh, input undervoltage when it fails?00:10
cehtehyes and too much switching .. possibly be takeover betwenn battery and dynamo isnt clean00:11
ShadowJKOh you definitely need a cap, it has no chance to work with dynamo -> rectifier -> reg/zener -> n90000:11
DocScrutinizeryou'd need a cap that can deliver min 0.5As for Vmax-Vmin00:11
DocScrutinizerwhere Vmin = 5V + LDO drop00:11
DocScrutinizerand Vmax prolly the 6V+x of your dynamo00:11
cehtehyes the problem with a bike dynamo is that it has very low Hz00:11
cehtehna00:11
DocScrutinizerdoesn't look good00:11
cehtehthe reecharge has this input circruit00:12
cehtehthat rectifies and limits to 5V (prolly linear-regulator)00:12
ShadowJKMaybe we could try with lower rate than 950 :)00:12
cehtehand then charge in is prolly some stock liion charge cirruit and the 850ma 5V out are DCDC regulated00:13
ShadowJKBut if it has a 1600mAh battery it should charge n900 even without dynamo00:13
cehtehShadowJK: i tried, doesnt help00:13
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DocScrutinizercehteh: I wonder what makes you think a LDO has less loss than CA146A00:13
cehtehShadowJK: yes it works, most of the time00:13
cehtehDocScrutinizer: it gets less hot :P ..00:14
DocScrutinizerhaha00:14
cehtehwell seriously .. LDO has some advantages in this setup00:14
cehtehit has the least losses when you drive slowly and you barely reach the input voltage00:14
DocScrutinizerdon't you think that *could* be somehow related to surface and generally thermal design rather than efficiency?00:14
cehtehand as soon you drive faster losses doesnt matter anymore00:14
cehtehwhile a dcdc would have most losses at the lower end of the scale00:15
cehtehnope the regulator from the reecharge is a plastic cast similar to the ca-14600:15
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cehtehmaybe slightly bigger .. but it doesnt get warm at all00:16
ShadowJKcharge21.sh line 24. change 0x42 (950mA, 150mA term) to 0x20 (750mA, 50mA term)00:16
cehtehanyways i like this toy i just want to improve it and fix the remaining problem00:16
DocScrutinizerthen it's no LDO which is just sane enough00:16
cehtehShadowJK: yes i did that00:16
ShadowJKah00:16
cehtehtried different limits but even at 100ma it sometimes fails00:17
ShadowJK100mA is useless btw00:17
cehtehreally .. my next try is to put a cap there00:17
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cehtehyes i know i just wanted to see if it will not stop charging because of undervoltage00:17
ShadowJKbecause musb consumes about 80mA, and cpu locked at 500MHz00:17
DocScrutinizercehteh: how could it not fail as soon as you stop?00:17
cehtehwhat?00:18
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, built in battery?00:18
cehtehthen battery takes over?00:18
DocScrutinizerafaik bike dynamoes doen't provide any power at all during no-move periods00:18
DocScrutinizerwhich battery?00:18
cehtehDocScrutinizer: http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/reecharge-power-pack00:19
ShadowJKdynamo - [ rect+reg+dcdc -> liion charger -> battery -> dcdc ] -> n90000:19
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DocScrutinizerwhat's that dcdc00:19
DocScrutinizer?00:19
DocScrutinizerthe 2nd one00:19
cehteh dynamo - [ rect+reg+ LCO -> liion charger -> battery -> dcdc ] -> n90000:19
cehtehprolly00:20
DocScrutinizerand what's the first contraption?00:20
cehtehi didnt disassembled it00:20
cehteh dynamo - [ rect+reg+ LCO ] -> [liion charger -> battery -> dcdc ] -> n90000:20
cehtehrather this are 2 components .. the first is permanently on the bike the battery and dcdc is strapped on and detachable00:21
DocScrutinizerif that friggin thing is meant to operate from a bike dynamo, why on god's earth you use a rect and zener on dynamo then?00:21
cehteheh?00:21
ShadowJKI wonder if it's like this toy-ups battery board I have, it has a fet to disconnect its boost circuit and feed input power to output directly, but unfortunately triggers at like 2V instead of something sane like 4.5V00:21
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DocScrutinizersomething is definitely odd with this blackbox and DIY dcdc00:23
ShadowJKi dont think he's using any diy in his current setup?00:24
Termanagood morning00:25
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i dont use diy .. see the link i provided00:25
ShadowJKSo he's only using this comercial product, consisting of lipo charger, lipo, boost circuit, connected to dynamo on one end and n900 on other end00:26
ShadowJKand planning to add capacitors somewhere to "fix" it?00:26
cehtehyes00:27
cehtehhey and there are chances that this cap may or may not work, but its worth a try, i even bett the odds are on the may work side, its little efforts and costs only a few euros00:27
ShadowJKI've made many "emergency charger" type things work by adding some random crappy cap stolen from dead radios :)00:28
cehtehwho here made his custom charge box? timeless? he reported that adding caps made charging a lot more reliable even when charging from secondary battery only00:28
cehtehyes00:28
cehtehso i just try and see00:29
ShadowJKotoh, my lolcharger made out of RCHobby components worked fine without extra caps :)00:30
wmarone__is it just me, or do no twitter clients on the N900 work?00:32
* cehteh doesnt use twitter00:33
cehtehbut its prolly you .. because someone else certainly uses twitter from the n90000:33
wmarone__I guess00:33
wmarone__they all bounce back with error 40100:33
cehtehover wlan or gsm/umts/whatever00:34
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ShadowJK401, is that authorization failed or malformed request?00:34
wmarone__auth failed00:34
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.yakahonsu.de/InternetExplorer/IE-Fehler/Reparaturprogramm/Fehlercodes/fehlercodes.html00:35
* wmarone__ tosses it aside for later00:35
DocScrutinizermeh, ok another obsolete bookmark00:35
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DocScrutinizercehteh: this product line is supposed to work without any friggin Cs or whatnot00:39
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: yes and? .. seems not to do :P00:39
DocScrutinizerand it clearly says it's made to provide continuous power to USB00:40
cehtehwell as i saied it works most of the time, but sometimes fails00:40
DocScrutinizercehteh: call manufacturer to fix it!00:40
DocScrutinizeryou paid for it00:40
cehtehyeah have luck :)00:41
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cehtehat best i get my money back00:41
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trumee_wmarone__, twimgo seems to be ok00:44
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DocScrutinizercehteh: or they swap you lemon for a good device with working LiPo00:50
cehtehDocScrutinizer: the 'good' one costs 3 times as much00:51
cehtehand i saied it works most of the time, so if the cheap cap fixes it, then its ok for me00:52
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javispedroJaffa: you said you tested Drive? Mine always says searching for GPS despite Maps saying it already has a lock01:00
javispedroalso, I found there's something weird about aegis01:01
javispedroenabling relaxed-exec in developer mode causes it to ignore missing signatures and allows you to run whatever executable you want.... as long as you are NOT root.01:02
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: same here, until I stopped maps app :-P01:04
javispedroheh01:04
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: WUT, non-root can execute whatever he wants?01:04
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javispedrofrom ssh, run aegis-developer-mode --related-exec01:05
javispedrothen aegis-exec -u user -l to get a "user" shell01:05
javispedrothen run everything01:05
javispedroI uploaded a few executables via sftp01:05
javispedrothey seem to work -- sadly, the only one with UI crashes, but I do not know if it's my fault.01:05
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javispedro--rela_x_ed-exec (sorry)01:08
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piggz_is there any qt components port on n900 yet?01:16
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piggz_i need to make a settings window, and i can either do it myself with rectangles, or use some components :)01:17
ieatlintwoo, n950 just arrived01:17
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javispedroieatlint: unpacking? :)01:18
piggz_well, its a good sign that there are qt-components and qt-components-dev packages01:18
ieatlintyeah, in a very classy way it has my first name written on masking tape on the box01:19
javispedroyeah, surprised.01:19
javispedroit is tradition here to do that with christmas presents =)01:19
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ieatlintthis is the cheapest nokia device packaging i've ever seen :P01:20
cehtehziplock bag?01:22
javispedrothe package is virtually only double the volume of the device itself01:22
ieatlintthat's standard for nokia packaging for the last year... small boxes01:22
ieatlintbut the cardboard is cheap as hell01:22
ieatlintthere's no wall charger (just usb cable)01:22
ieatlinti'm surprised there's the "quick start" guide01:23
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* ShadowJK has been using N810 and rediscovered music he forgot he had :-)01:25
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ShadowJKalso, a media player that doesn't reorder songs in albums arbitrarily01:25
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* javispedro is now rediscovering the weirdest crashes in the innermosts layers of libX11...01:31
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GAN900javispedro, first day is wrapping up? Good or bad?01:32
javispedroso far, good -- I'd say tearfree it's friggin impressive and usable OviMaps is a big plus.01:33
javispedromy biggest con is lack of Jabber/GTalk, which makes me think tomorrow I'll go to work with the N900 :(01:33
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (double the volume) well a tiny bit more :-)01:33
ieatlintwtf is tearfree?01:33
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: lack of xchat01:34
javispedro"without tearing"01:34
ieatlintoh01:34
ieatlintstupid homonyms01:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: any source for manpages for aegis* ?01:34
ieatlinti was thinking tear as in crying01:34
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: I do not think there are, but there are --help pages, what is on gitorious, and the kernel's Documentation/aegis.txt01:35
DocScrutinizeraegis.txt sounds good, --help is not really enlightening01:35
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javispedroon the other side, I am not impressed by this device's hw kb.01:35
DocScrutinizershould the doc be on device?01:35
javispedroin fact, I find myself already using the vkb more.... because I fear I'm going to break the hinge.01:36
javispedroYes, it looks that fragile.01:36
javispedroDocScrutinizer: nope, it's on kernel source.01:36
ieatlintanyone know what you hold down to get the phone to boot into flash/update mode?01:36
DocScrutinizerindeed, I'm reluctant to open it the way it's supposed to be, I rather lift the screen's upper end01:36
javispedroieatlint: you don't, just shut down phone and plug cable while flasher on desktop is "waiting for device"01:37
javispedrothis also works with n900, etc.01:37
DocScrutinizerieatlint: nuttin01:37
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: can pastebin it for you (doc/aegis.txt), wait a moment.01:37
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javispedrobut it also didn't say anything really enligthening01:37
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yup, Nokia streamlined the flashing instructions quite a bit01:37
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ieatlintah, ok01:38
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: appreciated01:38
DocScrutinizer~seen MohammadAG01:38
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infobotmohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 77 messages. Is idling for 10h 7m 22s, last said: 'yeah, totally our fault'.01:38
javispedroDocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.com/C5jbvj7N01:38
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MohammadAGFunny, I just came in01:39
javispedroDocScrutinizer: when you read the part about sysfs settings, you will want to know whetever they are sealed in N950. Yes they are.01:39
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: thanks :-)01:39
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: hey! hi! :-)01:40
javispedroMohammadAG: weren't you on holiday?01:40
MohammadAGjavispedro, 1:40 AM, home now01:40
javispedroMohammadAG: please don't kill me while I write a note on my N950!01:40
MohammadAGwell, "home" not home01:40
cehtehhaha this aegis is fail .. years ago someone made a kernel module checking signatures on elf files01:40
KMFDMi believe hinge problems are why they didn't sell the n950 to consumers01:40
KMFDMno money left in the project to fix it01:40
cehteh.. that worked about one week until someone shown a ld.so written in perl01:40
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KMFDMso give it to devs01:40
KMFDMhow is the the virtual keyboard on the n9(50) ?01:41
DocScrutinizerwell, it's.... virtual01:41
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the kbd as is isn't that bad anyway01:42
javispedro-- well, it's larger than n900s. Enter is weirdly placed (for me).01:42
DocScrutinizerthe hinge... well there's a reason for the photos on ovi01:42
DocScrutinizerhttp://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.1015101:42
MohammadAGlardman, your order shipped?01:42
javispedrohalf of the times I want to open it01:42
javispedroI just don't know HOW to open it.01:43
MohammadAGor hiemanshu01:43
javispedrowhich side? where to apply pressure? etc etc01:43
javispedroit's just too hard and fragile at the same time.01:43
javispedrothis "slider with angle" is just broken IMHO.01:43
cehtehDocScrutinizer: are these arms plastic or metal?01:43
javispedro*idea01:43
DocScrutinizerunclear01:44
javispedrofeel like plastic at least externally.01:44
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yeah, I don't get the point.01:44
GeneralAntillesThere's seemingly no real advantage01:44
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GeneralAntillesI guess you get SLIGHTLY more space for the keyboard.01:44
javispedrothere's one -- place on a table it is useful.01:45
DocScrutinizerI'm even undecided about the battery cover. It sometimes feels like metal, but from inside like plastic01:45
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: know what was awesome? When yu could swap keycaps01:46
cpscottiGeneralAntilles, javispedro .. hmm.. one advantage is that you get the "kickstand" effect you had on the n900 but a lot more stable01:46
KhLoveNickSwitchProcessed at LEIPZIG - GERMANY01:46
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GeneralAntillescpscotti, yeah. . . .01:46
Khertanstill some kilometters:)01:46
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cpscottimaybe the only one..01:46
javispedrocpscotti: fits well with my "placed on a table it is useful" ;)01:46
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Khertancpscotti, i love the n810 kickstand :)01:47
cpscottiKhertan,  I used the n900's one maaany many times too01:47
Khertancpscotti, not me01:47
cpscottibut that one was quite unstable01:47
cpscottiI mean like.. the "need" exists.. making it right is another story01:47
MohammadAGI loved the N9701:47
Khertanme fear that this slider was not robust01:48
GeneralAntillesMan, Chris di Bona is such an arrogant ass.01:48
GeneralAntillesNo one is buying the company line, Chris.01:48
Khertanhttp://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10170?sort=0 <<< aegis look like a nice things01:48
Khertanlol01:48
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GeneralAntillesKhertan, yeah, the N8x0 kickstand was amazing.01:48
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yesterday I noticed "shutting down" while on charger doesn't even stop sshd ;-)01:49
javispedroam I yet to understand acting dead01:49
javispedroseems to be more similar to n8x0 one than n900.01:49
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: my ssh session survived a "reboot"01:49
GeneralAntilleshttp://derstandard.at/1308186313932/Interview-Google-Android-is-the-Linux-desktop-dream-come-true01:49
DocScrutinizerone funny bit: my box had no name sticker at all01:50
jacekowskii was thinking about my next phone01:50
DocScrutinizerand I always thought MohammadAG was *special*01:51
Khertanhttp://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/3048/0ccba66665194c79a24f86f0e31382e7.jpg <<< whao thinner than n90001:51
jacekowskiand wp7 from nokia looks like the best option01:51
jacekowskiit's not linux based at all01:51
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Khertanjacekowski, mouhahahaha01:52
Khertando not feed the troll01:52
javispedroacting dead on n950 is fun, is it possible that it does not actually boot the OS at all?01:52
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jacekowskiKhertan: it's just that linux as phone platforms looks dead01:52
GeneralAntillesGoogle is SO EVIL01:52
MohammadAGI want my N950 :/01:53
jacekowskiKhertan: nokia will not make other linux based phones01:53
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javispedrojacekowski: there's still WebOS.01:53
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: you finally *really* can place the device on a table and type on it like on a regular laptop in miniature format01:53
javispedroand I do think Nokia will eventually make another Linux phone. The question is whether they will before tanking =)01:53
DocScrutinizeraah javispedro mentioned that01:53
* Khertan is asking himself if his n950 will be at home tomorrow01:54
cehtehyeah .. like on a laptop .. 10 finger typing :)01:54
nid0used to be able to do that fine with any communicator, too01:54
javispedroif you think of the n950 hwkb as something only to use on a table... I think it's fine. but on the move..01:54
* cehteh meanwhile really think if an external, usb or bluetooth keyboard, even if mini-laptop format is the way to go01:55
ieatlinthuh, there must be something i'm missing when i try and flash the n95001:55
javispedroieatlint: why do you want to flash it already?01:55
ieatlintit finds the device, then says "Sending ape-algo image (7054 kB)..." "100% (7054 of 7054 kB, avg. 30405 kB/s)" then the phone turns off, and it says "Suitable USB interface (phonet) not found, waiting..."01:56
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (is it possible that it does not actually boot the OS at all?) see my stay-alive ssh wlan session . it survived a proper reboot via powerbutton push01:57
javispedrothat's when I was saying it resembles more n8x0 actdead than n900, but I think it starts way too fast for that01:58
javispedron900 reboots on every state change, n8x0 didn't, it just changed runlevel.01:58
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: outch01:59
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DocScrutinizerthat's what N950 does, evidently02:00
DocScrutinizerand sshd is active in both runlevels02:00
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MohammadAGgah internet speed sucks here02:04
MohammadAGI feel I'm on 56k or something02:04
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GeneralAntillesWelcome to 199902:04
javispedroNokia stock is 30-something again?02:05
MohammadAGI don't miss it02:05
javispedrobut I need to warn the world about Elop!!02:05
javispedrosell!!02:05
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Jartzadon't worry02:06
Jartzasoon we don't have to worry about nokia at all02:06
ieatlinthuh, if i then boot it, and tell it to go into "sync and connect mode", it says "Device is in Sync and connect mode, sending ADL reboot." on the flasher02:06
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ieatlintthen "RROR: Failed to change protocol" and it exits, and the phone reboots normally02:06
Jartzajust look at the history, what has happened to companies that "get together" with microsoft :)02:06
GeneralAntillesJartza, what happens when they become a Microsoft powerhouse subsidiary?02:07
JartzaGeneralAntilles: they just fade away, not a biggie02:07
Jartzathere is enough cellphone manufacturers in the world02:07
Jartzathe knowledge just moves to some other company02:08
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Jartzahttp://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/02:09
Jartza:)02:10
cpscottijavispedro, haha LOLLLed hard!02:10
cpscottiSell! Sell, run to the mountains!02:10
javispedroJartza: the list happens to miss HTC.02:10
javispedrocpscotti: :)02:10
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javispedrohaha02:13
javispedroGeneralAntilles: say vivainio's tweet?02:13
javispedro*saw02:13
Jartzajavispedro: well that is an old article already02:14
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, which?02:14
javispedrolatest02:14
javispedroabout that piece of android garbage.02:14
GeneralAntillesHehe02:14
GeneralAntillesChris di Bona tried to hit me with a t-shirt.02:14
GeneralAntillesI don't care for the man.02:14
javispedroand a free device? =)02:14
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MohammadAGfuck yeah back to 5MBps :D02:15
GeneralAntillesIt was funny when the question came up about Google not sending patches back to Linux at the LFCS last year.02:15
javispedroMohammadAG: you can now hit F5 on the Nokia Developer pages with bandwidth to spare!02:15
GeneralAntilles"Well, nobody in the industry does, so we're not exactly behind."02:15
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GeneralAntillesHalf the room said "Uh, Nokia."02:15
MohammadAGjavispedro, I'm thinking of writing a script / Qt app to hammer the page non stop02:15
MohammadAGparse the status field02:15
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MohammadAGtechnically, I need a QWebView, dump and save all cookies, load them from QNetworkAccessManager, add a 1ms timer that always loops02:16
MohammadAGthen hook it up to my server02:16
MohammadAGor just wait for an email02:16
MohammadAGeither way, I won't get the N950 when it arrives in Israel, either someone "forwards" it to me or I get it a week or two later02:17
javispedrocall DHL and have that arranged =)02:18
javispedrothough they will charge you02:18
cpscottiMohammadAG, 1ms!02:18
cpscotti:)02:18
MohammadAGjavispedro, to Jordan? I don't want it arranged02:18
MohammadAGI don't trust postal services here02:19
javispedroheh.02:19
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* javispedro realizes that he forgot to make clean 02:19
javispedroand thus someone is mixing files compiled to different header versions02:20
* javispedro sighs02:20
javispedrogdb could warn about that, it can deduce it.02:20
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NIN101http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/AEGIS_Logo.svg lol, I laughed.02:23
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: send patches! :-P02:26
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DocScrutinizerNIN101: well, I see a small black rectangle02:27
DocScrutinizerNIN101: I don't laugh02:27
javispedroDocScrutinizer: your browser is stupid02:28
javispedroDocScrutinizer: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/AEGIS_Logo.svg/500px-AEGIS_Logo.svg.png02:28
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MohammadAGI wonder, how much battery does the FM radio TX take?02:31
MohammadAGerr, RX02:31
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DocScrutinizerfew02:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: thanks02:34
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you didn't use the 950-ssh?02:38
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javispedrothis segphault guy just throwed up that iOS might be using more GNU code than Android =)02:39
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, not yet02:42
MohammadAGI'm actually sorting my connection02:43
MohammadAGI won't be around a lot, except at night02:43
DocScrutinizerhmm, in 5 hours you'll need a new "IP lease" :-)02:43
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DocScrutinizeralways 6:30 CEST02:44
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javispedroOHNOES02:50
* javispedro forgot to clear a stack variable02:51
javispedrostupid compiler could also warn about this. he knows that..02:51
javispedrooh wait. he did.02:51
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javispedroof course, it only crashed on ARM.02:51
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javispedrosee, this is what one needs a device.02:51
javispedro*why02:51
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DocScrutinizer(oh wait. he did.) LOL03:34
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* DocScrutinizer gasps on "/dev/sda6 20G 18G 632M 97% /" - friggin scratchbox!03:36
DocScrutinizerhmm, 4.7G    /scratchbox/03:39
* DocScrutinizer wonders what's the other cruft03:39
derfscratchbox # du -xhs .03:40
derf47G     .03:40
GeneralAntillesDocs?03:40
DocScrutinizerderf: W*T*F?!03:41
derfThere's, uh, a few Fennec checkouts in there.03:42
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javispedroat 100MiB (iirc), wow.03:43
javispedro*100MiB each.03:44
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derfTry 10 times that, unbuilt.03:44
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javispedrowhoa whoa whoa03:51
* javispedro tries the limit of max fingers on N95003:51
javispedroI need moar fingers!!!03:51
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javispedromin of 6 so far03:52
javispedroI cannot really do more than 6 on a screen this size03:53
javispedrobut it does seem to detect 6 fingers realiably03:53
javispedrooops03:53
* javispedro managed to confuse the window manager03:53
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javispedroindeeed, reboot time.03:54
arvutI think Currency exchange widget is somewhat broken03:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: do you know how to take a screenshot?03:54
arvutit resets my other widgets so that I have to readd them all (I got quite a lot of widgets..)03:55
DocScrutinizerctrl-shift-P on hildon(?), otherwise use "Widgets Ga..."03:55
GeneralAntillesGrrr03:56
arvutWidgets Ga..?03:56
javispedroGeneralAntilles: hate hate hate!03:56
DocScrutinizerthe ctrl-shift-P has a cute flashlight effect03:56
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I had my 2-Minutes Hate this morning.03:56
GeneralAntillesYou were definitely the focus.03:57
GeneralAntillesKhertan's up tomorrow. :P03:57
arvutI know how to take a screenshot. you want one of each desktop then?03:57
javispedroso much hate can't be good for health03:57
arvutlet him hate to death then and be done with it.03:57
javispedroarvut: we are not the authors of currency exchange widget03:57
javispedroarvut: if you suspect you hit a bug, ask the author.03:58
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arvutjavispedro: i'll see what I can do. but warning ya'll about that widget is what I intended to do03:58
* GeneralAntilles is frightened now.03:59
arvutaren't the stuff in all but extras-devel to be verified/tested first?03:59
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: managed to shoot?03:59
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yes, seems to work well.03:59
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DocScrutinizerpics in some MyDocs/*/* as usual04:00
javispedroyep, or in gallery.04:00
* javispedro could get used to something that tries to be filesystem-less, as said.04:00
DocScrutinizeror in gallery04:00
arvutaltho.. you know what? It's bloody amazing to type on this phone, love the keyboard and small screen so much!!04:00
DocScrutinizeroder bei OBI04:00
DocScrutinizersorry04:00
arvutthe keys feels extra-special after a few spellbranches of blaze.04:01
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DocScrutinizera PITA the kbd shortcut isn't global04:03
arvutgonna build a desert, with dancing scimitars, mindmagi's and lots of blue fog..04:03
arvutcan I errm.. /msg myself?04:03
rm_youanyone know if you can rotate elements (or a whole pane would be easier) in Qt?04:03
rm_youit was stupidly difficult in Gtk04:04
rm_youbut i need to do it for one of my apps04:04
DocScrutinizerhmmm04:04
javispedrouh oh04:04
arvutyes! it wrks!! =)04:04
rm_youso like, half of the app is upside-down, so two people on opposite sides of a table can each read half of the screen04:04
javispedrofor some reason CtrlShiftP only works in MTF apps04:04
DocScrutinizerthere *might* be a property >rotation< on Qt widgets04:04
javispedrorm_you: it is probably way easier in Qt considering the interface is rotated that way in harmattan...04:05
rm_youhonestly, it just popped into my head so i asked here before even googling it, i'll go check google now...04:05
arvutrm_you: that would be hax, or a mirrored image of the app, on half the screen.04:05
arvuttwo screens would be cooler tho.04:05
rm_youlol well durp :P04:05
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: what I said04:05
DocScrutinizer(MTF)04:06
rm_youwhat version of Qt does it use?04:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: so you still need screenshot for your app?04:07
javispedroseems that widgets gay did the trick04:08
DocScrutinizeryoh04:08
arvutspace music.. right from di.. feels somewhat empty. piano n some echo right now =)04:08
javispedrobtw boostedWA is faster version of widgets gay04:08
javispedro*boostedWG04:08
arvutwhats that?04:08
DocScrutinizerboosted as in faster?04:08
arvutand... what's widgets gay?04:09
javispedropreloaded04:09
DocScrutinizerI already wondered04:09
javispedroooh, beatiful moment.04:09
javispedroon my desktop are the two N9{0,5}0 icons, the one made by timeless and the one made by ???04:09
DocScrutinizerWidgets Gallery app04:09
GeneralAntillesNice to see the hack back.04:09
arvut>.<04:09
EvanescenceMy N900 Maemo5 system crashed now. I changed system font with App "change font". Of course maybe other reasons. but It can not  connect with computer too. I need a good flasher manual. can you suggest some links or keyword for google ?04:09
DocScrutinizeraka "Widgets Ga..." as that's what's written on applauncher04:09
arvutI wonder, would it work to use the n900 as a server? with some good server OS on it? sshing into it as a gui would not be needed04:10
arvutor.. should one use it the other way around? to ssh into a large serverbox?04:11
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: sorry, *what* do you need?04:11
arvuts/large/randomsized/04:11
infobotarvut meant: or.. should one use it the other way around? to ssh into a randomsized serverbox?04:11
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arvut=)04:12
Evanescencedocscrutinizer I need one "flasher" manual to recover system .04:12
javispedrohttp://share.ovi.com/media/javispedro.Pblico/javispedro.10005 ;)04:12
DocScrutinizer~flash04:13
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware04:13
arvutdoc, please ask me to leave if you think I should (in case I spamalot) =.=04:13
Evanescencedocscrutinizer not "flash" I guess that method of recover system is "flasher"04:13
Evanescenceinfobot: is that about recover system ?04:14
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: sorry you lost me completely04:14
Evanescencedocscrutinizer anyway, I just want to recover system .04:14
arvutis there a new firmware out there? I got 2010.10 I think04:14
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: in which way, from what?04:14
arvut~firmware04:14
infobotrumour has it, firmware is hardware that is beginning to melt  Firmware for GrandStream phones is at http://www.hellofone.com/files/04:14
arvutl0l04:15
javispedroso where do I place my music on N950? It has both the usual ".sounds" and a newfangle "Music" directory on MyDocs.04:15
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: the standard recomended way to "recover" is to flash COMBINED as in ~flash04:15
Evanescencedocscrutinizer can you list out the best way ? it is better if it is simple.04:16
DocScrutinizerok, deleted my typed line about rescue-initrd and meego then04:16
DocScrutinizer~flashing04:16
infobotit has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware04:16
Evanescencedocscrutinizer i see. so is there some link to a good manual about flash ?04:17
DocScrutinizerIS the simplest way04:17
Evanescenceinfobot: ok04:17
infobotfine04:17
Evanescencethanks.04:17
DocScrutinizerinfobot: what are you?04:18
infobotI am a blootbot. For more info see <blootbot>04:18
DocScrutinizer~blootbot04:18
infobotmethinks blootbot is an IRC bot written in perl descended from infobot. Hosted on SF. This project is now merged back into the main infobot project. See [infobot]04:18
DocScrutinizer~infobot04:18
DocScrutinizerduh04:19
DocScrutinizer~factinfo infobot04:19
infobotthere's no such factoid as infobot, DocScrutinizer04:19
javispedrouah04:19
javispedron950 music player looks _great_04:19
javispedro(behind the scenes seems mostly the same..)04:19
javispedroI specially love the scroll bars, which also appear on Mail and Contacts btw04:20
DocScrutinizerhmm, I only have seen the Hanna Montana pink writing "please connect to your PC to sync your music library"04:20
javispedrothe scrollbar thingie is great04:20
javispedrojust flick a bit, then grab the "handle" that appears on the right side04:21
javispedroyou can scroll like it was a standard desktop scroll bar knob04:21
DocScrutinizero.O04:21
javispedroaaaaaaaaaargh04:22
DocScrutinizerthat's not a systemwide standard as in e.g settings menu there's only a ~3pixel wide scrollbar that I can't pick04:23
javispedroobviously, mediaplayer window stops refreshing when on the background04:23
javispedroah04:23
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javispedroit refreshes04:23
javispedrojust once every ten seconds04:23
javispedronot bad.04:23
javispedrocould be better04:23
DocScrutinizererr wut? in background??04:23
javispedrowhen in task switcher04:24
DocScrutinizeraah04:24
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: yeah, the scrollbar thing is not standard04:25
javispedroseems only Mail Music and Contacts04:25
DocScrutinizerthis all is very very scary/disappointing04:25
paulyits raining outside04:25
DocScrutinizernice timepicker - not available for devels04:26
DocScrutinizernice scrollbar - not a standard either04:26
javispedrooh, it is available for devs -- using MTF I bet.04:26
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DocScrutinizerlemme rephrase: deprecated and unsupported for devels04:26
DocScrutinizerthe new BS: it now asks me for my Nokia account password on every boot04:27
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you could say the entire platform is deprecated and unsupported, so...04:28
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DocScrutinizermehehe04:28
javispedroeither way, I do not see that picker widget in MTF04:28
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DocScrutinizerI wonder if we (the harmattan devels / N950 owners) should all /join #harmattan, and keep this channel for maemo04:30
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: which picker widget?04:31
javispedrothis channel would die04:31
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: date04:31
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cpscottiDocScrutinizer, I like the idea of paying an endless homage to maemo using this channel, forever.04:32
DocScrutinizerI don't think this chan would die, I think it would revert "to topic" and more N900 (and N8x0) related issues would begin showing up04:32
DocScrutinizercpscotti: please rephrase04:33
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cpscottiDocScrutinizer, but then again, it's less likely to get some help if people don't check this channel so often04:33
javispedrowe get many N8x0 issues =)04:33
paulyi need symbian but no one is on the symbian channel04:33
cpscottiDocScrutinizer, I mean.. we all love maemo and the public is pretty much the same.. so.. why changing..04:33
cpscottiif we had an extremely huge amount of people talking here at the same time to the point that it becomes unmanageable, than I think it would be ace to "fork"04:34
DocScrutinizermainly because harmattan is meego - secondarily because all the N950 topics started to suffocate the maemo5 topics last week, and some users already grumbled04:35
cpscottiDocScrutinizer, .. well.. didn't see that but I believe it.. so.. well.. let's go!04:35
DocScrutinizermost users may find all that N950 talk just annoying or at very best boring04:35
paulyn950 talk is aggervating because alot of people dont have one :(\04:36
javispedroI am surprised you are trying to prevent n950 topics suffocating older devices ones04:37
javispedrothat's exactly what happened during the n8x0->n900 transition04:38
DocScrutinizerI know04:38
villagerwell, my n950-envy is relieved a bit by hearing about the device's crappiness04:39
DocScrutinizerand I anticipated the very same effect for "meego"-harmattan and called it the last nail to maemo's coffin some months ago already04:39
SpeedEviln950 traffic also emphasises the EOL status of n900, hence puts of dev work.04:42
SpeedEvilDunno if that's significant - as of course QML/... can be done on the n900 too04:42
DocScrutinizerwell, what does this mean regarding your notion towards or against moving harmattan specific topics to #harmattan?04:43
cpscottiDocScrutinizer, well.. I'd be fine with #harmattan but keep in mind that most people prefer one "active" channel than three desert-like04:43
cpscotti(and as SpeedEvil is saying... at the end of the day it's all more or less Qt )04:44
cpscottinight all!04:44
javispedroat the end of the days it's more or less Maemo.04:44
DocScrutinizercpscotti: this channel wasn't desert-like 2 weeks ago04:44
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arvuthaha n900 xray is awesome :)04:44
cpscottiDocScrutinizer, fact... but well..04:44
cpscottianyways.. lol04:45
DocScrutinizerit just dried out of N900 related topics when N950 started taking over, and I guess a lot of users are just not interested in filtering the few N900 ones from the - in their metrics - noise created by harmattan chat04:46
DocScrutinizerfact: x-fade is on #harmattan04:47
cpscottitrue..actually all your arguments are good04:47
cpscottiI changed my mind already.. I'm just bitchin04:47
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lolcatN950 == N9?04:56
DocScrutinizer0 = 1?04:56
lolcatIs it diffrent devices?04:57
lolcatAnd 1 = 0.9999999... so I am not really sure04:57
DocScrutinizerlolcat: you've been on vacation last 3 weeks?04:57
SpeedEvilN950 = N9 - pretty much.04:57
DocScrutinizernah04:58
SpeedEvilThe only truly major difference is lack of keyboard04:58
lolcatN950 has a keyboard?04:58
DocScrutinizern950 = n9 + pretty much04:58
javispedron950 + amoled + nfc = n9 + keyboard04:59
DocScrutinizerlolcat: a search on youtube will get you the most convenient fast track insight to catch up04:59
lolcatCan I buy it?04:59
DocScrutinizerno04:59
lolcatWill I be able to buy it?05:00
DocScrutinizerhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=359705:00
DocScrutinizerand no05:00
lolcatDammit05:01
lolcatI guess I will have to stick with this  Nokia phone I got for $6005:02
lolcatIt has a flashligth and can read what time it is in a female voice05:02
DocScrutinizernow THAT'S COOL!05:02
lolcatYeah, who needs browsers and that BS when you can *listen* to what time it is05:03
SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/espeaktime-python/05:04
lolcatSpeedEvil: This one has a dedicated button for it05:05
javispedrobah05:05
javispedrothe query animation dialogs are different when using MTF or QML05:06
javispedrothis platform is going to be an amalgamation of a bazillion UI toolkits05:06
javispedroall of them will have "Qt" somewhere in the name and none of them will really be the same.05:06
DocScrutinizeryup05:06
derfSo just like real Linux!05:06
javispedroexcept that the real Linux people still only know one Qt.05:07
derfWell, Nokia does need to differentiate in order to succeed in the market.05:07
DocScrutinizerseems atm Nokia does a hell of a job to differentiate from itself05:08
DocScrutinizerthere's a medical term for that, sth with sch...05:09
javispedroit just surprises me that they really chose to reimplement everything with every new Qt-based-toolkit-of-the-week iteration05:09
javispedrotoday's bingo says QML? reimplement all the animations in QML.05:10
DocScrutinizerhey05:10
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DocScrutinizerdidn't I call QML the "widget set flavour of the week" yesterday?05:10
javispedroyes05:10
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: maybe you want to /join #harmattan?05:12
* javispedro sighs05:12
DocScrutinizer:-D05:13
* javispedro indicates the large number of now unused IRC channels we allocated during the n900 launch05:13
DocScrutinizerit's actually not been *my* idea05:13
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DocScrutinizerand I kicked #mer and #maemo-devel out of my autojoin just maybe a month ago ;-)05:14
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DocScrutinizerI think x-fade pondered where harmattan belongs to05:15
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arvuthuppa!05:52
arvutI made a very special cocktail to cure my throat (summer cold) : a quarter of a bud, boiled in some alcoholic herbal liquid called echinaforce (spelling?) and then kan jang added for extra strength! I'm gonna be cured by the morrow. =P05:55
* arvut wonders what could cure fever, cept those pills..05:56
jonwilTime to peer into the abys (otherwise known as the QT source tree)06:00
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arvutthe void!06:04
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jonwilok, looks like I need to write some more logging code to attach to various signals and dump stuff07:23
SpeedEvilWhat're you trying now?07:24
jonwilThis is related to CBSMS07:24
SpeedEvilah07:24
jonwiland then go on another odyssey to hit as many cells as possible07:24
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jonwilExploring libcellular-qt from Harmattan didnt help me understand whats going on07:25
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jonwilNeed to log various cell tower related messages from the Phone.Net dbus interface :)07:53
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alteregoStill, my order is on "New Order" hope it changes today, really kinda wanted it to demo tomorrow.09:04
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hiemanshualterego: everyone is hoping for that09:07
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divanalterego, mine was sent yesterday, so u can expect it any minute to be sent.09:26
hiemanshudivan: what was your OID number?09:27
divanhiemanshu, want to hijack? :)09:28
hiemanshudivan: naah, just an idea how many they processesd09:29
divanhiemanshu, 0527xx :)09:29
hiemanshuah so you are from the 7xx09:29
hiemanshusome from the 92x got one too09:29
divanhiemanshu, yep09:29
hiemanshuso I guess its just random picking09:29
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alteregoI'm 529xx09:32
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hiemanshuI am 88709:33
hiemanshusomething09:33
alteregoWell, mine should probably ship today then, cool.09:34
hiemanshuwell hoping it does :D09:35
hiemanshuyours and mine09:35
hiemanshuif it ships today, I'll have it by thursday or something09:36
hiemanshuso I can demo it on friday09:36
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hiemanshuanyone know the wifi chipset on the N950?09:39
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macmaNthere is #harmattan?10:26
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macmaNdid yall figure out what channel shall be the authoritative one for n95010:27
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hiemanshumacmaN: haven't figured out the channel yet, but maybe we could register one and add it to the topic? we'll have to wait to hear from the council or something like that10:29
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macmaNmore people getting on aegis slowly http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?226594-Running-console-apps-on-n950-Operation-not-permitted10:39
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kerio-sigh-10:52
keriowhy doesn't nokia want me as a customer?10:52
keriowhat have i done to upset them? :(10:52
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hiemanshukerio: hah, same here :P10:56
hiemanshuwell its barely 11am, so lets just wait :(10:56
JaffaMornig, all10:57
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Feel free to add your own info to the wiki :-)10:57
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DocScrutinizermorning, and OK10:57
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hiemanshumorning DocScrutinizer Jaffa10:58
krayonDocScrutinizer: So you got one?10:58
DocScrutinizeryes10:59
krayonAny good?10:59
DocScrutinizerno10:59
krayonSadly I think I'll have to hope one shows up on eBay :/10:59
krayonvs N900 though?10:59
DocScrutinizerI prefer my N900 every single day11:00
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, what's wrong with it?11:00
krayonOh, OK, cool.  Thanks.  That makes me feel better :P11:00
krayonI don't think I want the 9 - not much use without a keyboard11:01
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: for now it got aegis, and no xchat11:03
DocScrutinizerand a c-ts that's really useless for me11:04
Arkenoiaegis? and why xchat does not work there?11:04
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DocScrutinizerit's probably not that xchat doesn't work, it's just I don't even bother to do a apt-cache search as I already know the result11:05
Arkenoicapacitive sucks for sure11:05
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RST38hmoo all11:07
RST38hHos is suffering today?11:08
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DocScrutinizerworse11:10
DocScrutinizerand moo11:10
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: do you know where to get i2ctools binary?11:12
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: aegis cannot be fixed, xchat can be :P11:13
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I know11:14
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Not a clue11:14
RST38hDoc: well, you know what to do11:14
DocScrutinizeralas -> df -h / -> 600MB; du -sxh /scratchbox -> 4.7GB11:15
keriobreak aegis!11:16
kerioand/or fix xchat!11:16
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keriowat11:17
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DocScrutinizerI'm missing all the desktop feeling I still got on fremantle11:24
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DocScrutinizerIOW harmattan is exactly what it's meant to be: the OS Nokia could and *should* use on all their smartphones11:28
RST38hTrue11:28
RST38hBut will never come to pass.11:29
DocScrutinizerand it's really good for that11:29
keriofucking elop11:29
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: and its even really polished that much, its just a first release, and well it can be awesome!11:29
grianyone ever tried syncing contacts between n900 and windows mobile 6.5? -> I want to burn that windows phone11:29
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: indeed11:29
grimy girlfriend instantly fell in love with the n95011:30
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: seeing nokia history, first release is bad, everything else works much better, so if this is called bad, and then I wonder what awesome would be like11:30
DocScrutinizerjust the fact is: IF I was interested in this kind of UX, I had an iPhone or Android since years11:30
keriogri: vibrator app?11:30
grikerio: No :)11:30
keriok :(11:31
hiemanshugri: if you are gettting one keep it away from her11:31
hiemanshumy dad asked for my N950 in exchange for a top end android, I said no11:31
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: true, but more then the UX, the backend/stack matters more11:32
grihiemanshu: I have one ... she played the whole evening with it yesterday11:32
hiemanshugri: ah nice11:32
hiemanshugri: when did you order yours btw?11:32
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: for now there's all aegis11:32
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: aegis is a dev problem, not a user problem11:32
DocScrutinizerall your base are belong to us -greeting aegis11:32
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: so the backend stack is a user problem???11:33
grihiemanshu:  ordered thursday (7.7.), dhl tracking number on 8.7., delivery yesterday in the afternoon11:33
hiemanshugri: same order date, not yet sent11:33
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yeah, the user exeperience depends on the stack really11:33
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: like cheap androids11:33
* DocScrutinizer scratches head and turns away11:34
grihiemanshu: I liked the way how the n950 was packaged, seals everywhere ... and where did the dhl guy leave it behind? At the front door of the house because nobody was at home11:35
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alteregogri: Don't get me started on delivery agents :P11:39
grialterego: I hate dhl express :)11:40
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alteregogri: I live in a flat complex and most people are out, so I end up taking deliveries for everyone as I generally work from home. But when I head out to go to meetings or whatever, I don't even get calling cards because the delivery agents can't get into the flat complex to post it through my letter box.11:40
griThey called me yesterday 2h before actual delivery "your address is wrong" - "no it isnt!"11:40
alteregoAnd without a calling card, I don't know if anything has "arrived" and, I can't even pick it up because you _have_ to have the calling card.11:41
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alteregoThis is why I must have tracking numbers, so I know when things will be arriving and make sure I'm present ;)11:41
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griyeah, that sucks11:41
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griWe have electronic packing stations for dhl deliverys which can be accessed 24h - but dhl express does not use them11:42
ruskierofl11:42
ruskiehmm do I want to bind myself to a 24m contract with the cellco... no not really...11:43
DocScrutinizergri: a relais that couples your doorbell with the dooropener is probably a good idea then11:43
DocScrutinizererr11:43
DocScrutinizeralterego: ^^^11:43
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: that is not a bad idea at all ..11:44
griDocScrutinizer: I meant the so-called "Packstation"s all over Germany11:45
DocScrutinizerhey, as if I ever had a bad idea11:45
DocScrutinizerX-P11:45
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alterego:)11:46
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DocScrutinizergri: yeah, I just intercept the DHL guy by mere luck, when I hear a truck and a car door, and maybe some other suspicious things. We got no doorbell and the entry to the house is from backside (garden) as frontside is a shop - WAY TOO COMPLEX for the average DHL guy11:47
ruskiehehe11:48
DocScrutinizerotherwise it's just a 3km walk to the DHL station, and a felt 1km inside the building to reach the desk where I get my package with some luck11:49
ruskiefun11:49
* ruskie prefers the regular postal service around here for such things...11:49
DocScrutinizersometimes it's a 10km travel to the suburbs though11:49
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grifor me it's about 200 meters to the station - that's why I complain dhl express does not use them! :)11:50
DocScrutinizeryeah11:50
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hiemanshumore reports of people getting their N950s :(11:51
hiemanshuits killing me11:51
kerioit won't be useful for me anyway11:51
kerioi have more than 16gb of music11:51
DocScrutinizerkerio: indeed11:52
RST38hiPhone?11:52
DocScrutinizerand don't get fooled, you only have EIGHT GB of usable storage11:52
hiemanshukerio: roughtly 200G of music here :P11:52
hiemanshuroughly*11:52
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kerioDocScrutinizer: cool story bro11:52
hiemanshuand about 20G on my phone11:52
RST38hhiemanshu: not counting porn?11:52
hiemanshuRST38h: no pr0n, only .mp3 or .aac or .m4a11:53
ruskiehiemanshu, all legal?11:53
hiemanshuruskie: mostly yes :P11:53
ruskienice11:53
ruskieI got some 60gbs11:53
ruskieprobably 90% legal11:53
ruskieand most in flac11:53
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hiemanshumy car player doesn't understand flac, so I stay away from it11:54
ruskiedon't really care about the car player11:54
ruskien900 supports fm transmitting11:54
ruskieso isn't an issue11:54
DocScrutinizerI *don't* have ~200GB, completely illegal :-(11:54
Arkenoiare 950s 16gb and no microsd? i've seen a tiny slot that looked much like microsd on it but did not open it11:54
ruskieArkenoi, probably the microsim slot11:55
Arkenoiah11:55
Arkenoithey are microsim?11:55
hiemanshuruskie: micro sim or mini sim?11:55
hiemanshuI think they are minisim and not micro sim11:55
DocScrutinizerruskie: normal SIM11:55
Arkenoi"normal" SIM is credit card sized :-)11:55
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: thats minisim11:55
hiemanshumini-sim11:55
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: meh11:56
ruskieI need to get http://www.teufelaudio.com/de/audio-streaming/1raumfeld-c-p6791.html one of these to stream the music around the appartment11:56
keriolet's just make a fake sim with storage in it!11:56
hiemanshukerio: and write a driver for the gsm module to play music?11:56
keriohell yeah11:56
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griDocScrutinizer: Are your volume keys also a bit shaky?11:58
DocScrutinizer>>*Important*: Do not use a mini-UICC SIM card, also known as micro-SIM card, a micro SIM card with an adapter, or a SIM card that has a mini-UICC cutout (see figure)...<<11:58
DocScrutinizergri: yep11:58
DocScrutinizerminimal (~0.01mm)11:59
DocScrutinizereasy to feel11:59
EvanescenceDoes anyone knows how to install TV-B-Gone on maemo5 ?11:59
Arkenoiwhy? what happens then?11:59
ruskieArkenoi, a rift in space time11:59
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: forget it, the reach distance of N900 CIR is <3m11:59
ArkenoiEvanescence, huh? it just works. though seems to know less codes than "hardware" version12:00
EvanescenceI searched a little. And I watched one video. It can works on some TV. that's why I want to  have a try.12:01
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: where's the sense in you standing 1.5m in front of a random TV and trying for minutes to get it down?12:01
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, there are annoying TVs in public places12:02
DocScrutinizerI once had a Casio wrist watch with universal IR-RC built in, that was fun, in cinema etc12:03
Arkenoibut hardware version is much more handy12:03
Arkenoimore powerful, fast and reliable12:03
Evanescencewell. some guys do not know N900 ( i mean that a phone ) can do that. just have this curiosity.12:03
DocScrutinizerthis wrist watch really *worked* ~6..8m distance12:03
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: fair enough then12:04
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Arkenoii once turned on air conditioner with qtirreco12:04
Arkenoito find out it was turned off because it emits bad smell12:04
Evanescenceit's awesome.12:05
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: get a IR flood illumination and put it into focus of a dish, then control this with your "hw version"12:05
DocScrutinizerthat's *real* fun12:06
Evanescencelater to install that. I need to update firmware at first. I changed system font. then system can not startup anymore.12:06
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, i was thinking about using ir laser from cd burner for that12:06
DocScrutinizeryou easily take down the TV in a whole skyscraper ;-)12:06
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: that's more the sniper variant, works quite well too12:07
Arkenoiflood illumination may have too slow reaction to be modulated with signals12:07
DocScrutinizernah12:07
DocScrutinizerit's just like 40 or 50 LED in a housing12:07
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: by the way, how to check out my N900 device module ? ( N900 or UK N900 devices ) . I can not startup my system anymore.12:07
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: sorry, please rephrase12:08
DocScrutinizerdunno "N900 device module"12:08
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: here it is, from wiki: Download the latest firmware image for your device model: N900(For UK N900 Devices: Maemo 5 UK Firmware),12:09
DocScrutinizermodel12:09
DocScrutinizeraaah12:09
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: sorry. my poor english.12:09
DocScrutinizerjust always use global variant12:09
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Evanescenceok12:10
DocScrutinizerexcept *maybe* for special modem tweaks in US variant there's no known reports of any shortcomings of global vs any localized variant (maybe indians and japanese might disagree)12:11
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: well the only difference I found was no skype in indian version12:12
DocScrutinizer:nod:12:12
hiemanshugah, my F5 key broke again :(12:12
ruskiestop using it12:12
DocScrutinizeragain? lol12:12
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yeah, 3rd time12:12
DocScrutinizersince last thursday I guess12:13
hiemanshuruskie: I cannot, not use it :P12:13
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: naah, since the list was out12:13
ruskieuse an alternate key combo12:13
ruskief5 isn't the only refresh key12:13
hiemanshuyeah, for now f6 will do refreshes :P12:13
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ruskieor just use some *userscript* to auto refresh12:14
DocScrutinizeractually you can assign arbitrary keys, and for FF there's also a "watch that page for changes"12:14
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: Can I switch virtual termial like linux ( Ctrl+Alt+F1 )? and how to press Alt. F1 on keyboard.12:14
lardmanmorning12:14
lardmanany news on shipping?12:14
hiemanshulardman: sent yet?12:14
DocScrutinizerfor konqueror there is "refresh page every <seconds>"12:14
lardmannope12:14
hiemanshuhah, none here :P12:14
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: on N900? no12:15
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: there are no VT on fremantle, usually12:15
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: all. so how to press "Alt", I find really most key can not be found.12:15
Evanescencei see12:15
* hiemanshu goes for lunch12:15
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: alt == esc for most cases12:15
DocScrutinizeralt+char == ESC; char12:16
DocScrutinizerworks for many but not all cases12:16
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EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: I see. which keyword to search in wiki to know about keyboard ?12:16
DocScrutinizereven F3 == ESC; 3;12:17
Evanescencebut no ESC on N900....12:17
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: sorry, please rephrase12:17
RzR950and emacs meta ?12:17
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: there is, at least in xterm12:18
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: yes, only in terminal.12:18
DocScrutinizerEvanescence: and you can redefine you keymap if you frequently need ESC12:18
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DocScrutinizersometime it helps to know ESC = ctrl+[12:19
DocScrutinizernot on N900 frequently12:19
DocScrutinizeror was it ] ?12:19
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EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: ok, i see. Thanks.  you answered many of my qestions. Thanks very much.12:20
DocScrutinizeryw12:20
DocScrutinizermaybe one more tip12:20
DocScrutinizer...12:20
DocScrutinizermompls12:20
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: ... what is yw, mompls ?12:20
lardmanyou're welcome is the first one12:20
DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Keyboard_characters12:21
Termanahe wants you to consult your mom instead of asking him everything12:21
EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: that's it. thanks12:21
Termanaor that12:21
Termana:p12:21
DocScrutinizerand mom-ent please12:21
EvanescenceI see.12:22
lardmanhmm, might need to write some code to analyse when people ordered and when their device was shipped by looking at the wiki edits12:23
DocScrutinizernow that was MAD usefull an app ;-P12:24
DocScrutinizerI guess in the end we could calculate pi to 20 digits from the norma deviation in the results12:25
DocScrutinizerdecimals even12:26
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lardmanwell I need something to do while I wait for some notification ;)12:26
DocScrutinizerlardman: but whatever helps to make you feel better and make the time go by - definitely do it12:27
DocScrutinizeryeah12:27
DocScrutinizersame idea here12:27
Termanalardman, needn't bother, I've already found the function they are using to select who to send them out to12:27
Termanarand() % 250 + 1;12:27
DocScrutinizeryou probably should develp that awesome app in harmattan SDK12:28
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lardmanhmm, power being shut off to office, bbiab assuming nothing gets broken12:29
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TermanaHis computer is already broken - he's running Windows12:30
TermanaDocScrutinizer, yes, he should make it in the Harmattan SDK and then run it on his devi... oh wait...12:32
DocScrutinizerlardman awaiting the guys from the black helicopers?12:36
Evanescencehow to backup data in 35G disk of N900 ? ( my system is crashed,can not connect N900 disk with USB )12:41
TermanaEvanescence, manually install MeeGo onto your SD card and flash MeeGo kernel and then you can do the backup within MeeGo?12:43
EvanescenceTermana: wow, give up12:44
Termana?12:44
TermanaI wasn't joking?12:44
TermanaThere might be an easier way, that way was just a suggestion that I knew would work12:44
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ruskieEvanescence, that's really the best way imho as well12:45
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jonwil_YES, my new dump code works12:48
jonwil_it dumps what it should be12:48
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ruskiewhat are you dumping?12:51
CaCO3_Anybody got a N950 order status update today? Mine shows still "new order", since 7.7.201112:53
deimossame here12:53
DocScrutinizer/join harmattan12:53
DocScrutinizererrr12:53
DocScrutinizerif you like to12:53
CaCO3_you mean a new chanel?12:54
DocScrutinizer/join #harmattan12:54
DocScrutinizereven12:54
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jonwil_I am dumping various things related to my cell broadcast SMS work12:57
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jonwil_including IncomingCBS messages, registration_status_change messages, radio_access_technology_change messages, radio_info_change messages, cell_info_change messages and operator_name_change messages12:58
jonwil_Tomorrow I go on some sort of odyssey to hit as many cells as possible12:59
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jonwil_With this log I should hopefully know all the hooks I need to display the tower name correctly13:01
jonwil_i.e. to decide when to display it and when not13:01
jonwil_and when to throw away the current tower name until a new Cell Broadcast message comes in for the new tower name13:02
DocScrutinizerjonwil_: wow, your project clearly is way more ambitioned than mine ever has been. Sounds like a complete well thought concept13:04
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DocScrutinizerindeed displaying a random cell's name as of 3 days ago when device last time had to switch to 2G where you actually get those SMSCB-chan50 msgs, is kinda silly13:05
jonwil_basically I throw away the tower name if the registration status changes to any of the "no service" options, if the operator code changes, if the rat changes (i.e. 3g vs 2g) or if the service status changes (no coverage vs in service vs limited service)13:09
jonwil_The logs I get tomorrow should show if I need to also throw it away on cell tower ID change or not13:09
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jonwil_I am going off the assumption that if one tower on a network is pushing tower names, every tower is13:10
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alteregoHas anyone managed to remove the "DEVELOPER EDITION" stuff and replace it with "AWESOME" yet?13:10
ruskiethat's a rather large assumpiton I'd say13:10
ruskiealterego, ????13:11
Termanaalterego, you need to have a device in hand before you keep worrying about that :P13:11
alterego:)13:11
hiemanshualterego: no one tried, plus I need to get the device in hand13:11
hiemanshualterego: so I can do something about it13:11
alteregoWell, I have the rootfs, I might have a little poke ..13:12
hiemanshuTermana: your device sent yet?13:12
hiemanshualterego: any news of yours?13:12
Termanahiemanshu, nah, how about yours?13:12
ruskieis anyone keeping track of how many bricks there will be while testing stuff out?13:12
hiemanshuTermana: no :(13:12
Termanaalterego, besides "DEVELOPER DEVICE" == shit just got real13:13
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hiemanshugah, so I am assuming, no device this weekend either :( :(13:14
Termanahiemanshu, yeah, definitely no device this weekend for me (takes too long to get here, even if it shipped today)13:15
hiemanshuTermana: *if* mine ships today, I'll have it by the end of the week yes, but if tomorrow, then mostly next week :(13:16
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hiemanshuTermana: and I wont be home for most of the next week13:17
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EvanescenceDocScrutinizer: I am using ubuntu natty. 11.04. which flasher should I use ?13:19
DocScrutinizerthe one that's available13:19
DocScrutinizerthere's a 32bit and a 64bit version .deb iirc13:19
DocScrutinizernah wait, that's probably the harmattan new flasher, that's unsure to work or not for fremantle13:20
EvanescenceI see. I find some based on debian. I do not know which one to choose13:20
DocScrutinizerfor N900 fremantle there's probably just one .deb13:20
Evanescence.deb ? I find there are some tar.gz package for ubuntu.13:21
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DocScrutinizererr isn't ubuntu a devian based distro? anyway you always can use the .tgz13:22
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cpscottitaaaaanaaaaa!13:42
hiemanshucpscotti: ?13:43
* cpscotti exhibits a big smile on his face!13:43
hiemanshucpscotti: shipped?13:43
cpscottiDear Customer, Your order has been sent on 12.7.2011.13:43
hiemanshuwtf13:43
hiemanshuwhere is mine13:43
cpscottiOID-05277513:43
hiemanshucpscotti: when was it sent?13:43
cpscotti:D13:43
cpscottinoow13:43
hiemanshuoh13:43
hiemanshudamn you13:43
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hiemanshuI'll have to wait then13:43
hiemanshufor a while :(13:43
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cpscottihehe.. well.. I got the e-mail four minutes ago.. so..13:43
cpscottihope buddy! hope!13:44
hiemanshucpscotti: I now officialy hate you13:44
cpscottihiemanshu,  lol!13:44
* hiemanshu goes to the corner to cry13:44
RST38hthey never shipped mine and it has been 4+ days now13:44
* cpscotti gets back to his QML tinkering, but now feeling a lill bit better13:44
hiemanshuRST38h: same here13:45
hiemanshuI am in my dad office, sitting here all day doing nothing, I am going to sleep on the table now13:46
hiemanshu'5 days ago' that was the last email13:47
ruskiethe more you wait for it the further away it'll be13:48
hiemanshuruskie: eh?13:49
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hiemanshucpscotti: I have the QML and everything ready so far, I just need the device in hand to start testing and make an intial release13:49
cpscottihiemanshu,  not the same here.. I used to be a QGraphicsScene guy :D..  (but as far as backend goes, all's ready for Qt Mobility 1.2 :D)13:52
hiemanshucpscotti: well same here, but I learnt QML in a couple of days and got a very usable GUI in another few days13:52
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hiemanshucpscotti: anyways, /me goes back to weeping13:52
cpscottihiemanshu, yep.. I'm falling in love with it pretty quick too..13:53
hiemanshucpscotti: using pagestackwindow?13:53
hiemanshuI need to figure that part out13:53
hiemanshupages, and pagestackwindow, etc13:53
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cpscottinot yet13:54
cpscottibut looks like that's the way to go13:54
hiemanshuyeah, looks like it13:55
hiemanshuopen page above another13:55
vdvi wonder why Program Manager works so slow, is there any way to fix that?13:55
hiemanshuvdv: program manager?13:56
lcukvdv, only use the repositories you need.  loading every version of every package takes time13:56
DocScrutinizerboostWG switches example: Headlights, Autopilot, Warp Drive, Reactor Shields, Infinite Improbability Drive13:56
lardmanyay! My order has been sent!13:56
DocScrutinizerX-D13:56
RST38harghhhh13:56
* RST38h glares at lardman13:56
lardmansorry RST38h13:57
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lardmanhmm, jump from FF5 to FF6 was quick14:03
Hurrianhttp://goput.it/zf9.png14:03
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hiemanshu_MohammadAG, alterego: got any email yet?14:14
hiemanshu_cpscotti: is 775 got done now, I am pretty sure, I'll be next week :(14:15
hiemanshu_s/is/if/14:15
infobothiemanshu_ meant: cpscotti: if 775 got done now, I am pretty sure, I'll be next week :(14:15
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hiemanshu_cpscotti: btw n900fly is nice :P14:15
hiemanshu_cpscotti: I got 2-ish mtrs on it14:15
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cpscottihiemanshu, hahaha! That's preeeety old! First thing I ever did for maemo..  I heard they are not following order nÂș so.. hope!14:16
hiemanshu_cpscotti: heh well yeah14:17
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hiemanshu_and fucking quassel wont work on my laptop for some reason now14:17
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hiemanshu_but it works on the windows PC here14:17
hiemanshu_:(14:17
cpscottihehe14:17
cpscottihiemanshu btw, saw you want to port opencv, count me in to test/help/use that.. I love that lib14:17
hiemanshu_cpscotti: I have it ported, I have something to test as well14:17
hiemanshu_cpscotti: I need a device :P14:18
cpscottiyep. you do! we all do14:18
hiemanshu_well I am not going to check my nokia@ email or check the order status for the rest of the day now14:18
cpscottimy problem with it in maemo was that it was damn too slow (I believe mostly the cvCapture thing )14:18
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hiemanshu_cpscotti: yes its slow, because you haven't optimized your code for a 600 mhz processor14:19
hiemanshu_cpscotti: instead of using a steady stream, capture about 2 frames every second14:19
hiemanshu_cpscotti: I wrote this code to auto change the brightness on the screen depending on the light14:19
cpscottilol.. hiemanshu, what do you mean by "optimizing your code for a 600Mhz.."? you mean like.. do it as damn faast as possible..14:20
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hiemanshu_cpscotti: nope, decrease the polling rate14:20
alteregoI'm 529xx14:20
alteregoNo email yet ..14:20
hiemanshu_yeah, waiting here too14:20
alteregoThere's plenty of time left today though :P14:21
hiemanshu_alterego: about 3 hours14:21
hiemanshu_alterego: that is not plenty, trust me14:21
alteregopfft, just be patient :P14:21
cpscottihiemanshu, yep! but then you are just "processing less data", not being actually faster..14:21
cpscottibut anyway, it's a good starting point14:22
cpscotti:D14:22
hiemanshu_cpscotti: polling less data is still optimization yes, why poll for the extra data when you dont need it?14:23
cpscottihiemanshu, agreed!14:23
hiemanshu_I have a couple of .debs waiting here for a device to be installed on :P14:24
cpscottihiemanshu, but what if you need it? like, anything with AR needs to be a lot quicker than 2fps..14:24
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hiemanshu_cpscotti: that is secondary, I will looking into that as well14:25
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hiemanshu_s/looking/look/14:25
infobothiemanshu_ meant: cpscotti: that is secondary, I will look into that as well14:25
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cpscottihiemanshu,  one thing that makes a lot of sense too is lowering the capture resolution (sometimes 320xsmthgn is way enough)..14:26
hiemanshu_cpscotti: its more important to get aegis to let it run this stuff14:26
hiemanshu_cpscotti: yes that works too14:26
hiemanshu_I always have the camera at 640x48014:26
hiemanshu_for my desktop14:27
cpscottihiemanshu, the prob is that opencv is know for now supporting that kind of stuff. you have to set those thing directly at v4l, right?14:27
cpscottis/know/known14:27
hiemanshu_cpscotti: now or not?14:27
cpscottihehe.. not14:28
cpscottis/now/not14:28
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hiemanshu_cpscotti: thats true, but again its trivial14:29
hiemanshu_its not like to need a lot of code to do that14:29
hiemanshu_s/to/you/14:29
infobothiemanshu_ meant: its not like you need a lot of code to do that14:29
cpscottiyep yep.. it's just not trivial if people don't even know that's possible (I'd been in that group already.. hehe)14:30
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hiemanshu_cpscotti: thats what we have google for :P14:32
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vdvI get "Audio codec not supported" for the Internet Radio channel14:32
vdvi've installed decoders-support14:32
vdvbut error is still there14:32
cpscottihiemanshu_, indeed14:32
vdvurl for radio is "http://www.101.ru/?an=port_channel_mp3&channel=99"14:33
vdvseems that it's mp3 decoder what is need14:33
RzR950oga !14:33
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griNice, the sdk installer from the device tells me "bad request" - wanted to find out if it's a different sdk than the normal "qt sdk" with experimental harmattan - anyone knows that?14:40
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DocScrutinizergri: somebody at #harmattan may know14:40
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer: didn't know it existed14:41
grime too14:41
grilooks like the people there are the same as here? :)14:42
hiemanshu_gri: yeah :P14:42
hiemanshu_its like telling to ask #someonewhocares14:42
DocScrutinizermaybe, but their interest is maybe different14:42
griDocScrutinizer: If I ask you in #harmattan, you know the answer? :P14:43
DocScrutinizerkimju seems isn't here for example14:44
DocScrutinizerothers may be digging into N950 and thus looking more often there than here14:45
* SpeedEvil sighs at the thresholds.14:45
* SpeedEvil sighs at the thresholds of the n900 battery system.14:45
SpeedEvilThey're not - quite - right - especially for older cells, and can do stupid shit.14:46
* DocScrutinizer deletes a "whi"14:46
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: elaborate please14:48
Venemo_N900meh, Nokia has not sent me my device yet :(14:48
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: yeah, same here14:49
Venemo_N900heh! I just got the e-mail that it has been sent, right after the moment I wrote it hasn't been sent... :D14:49
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: FU14:49
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: whats your OID number?14:49
Venemo_N900dunno14:49
Venemo_N900MicroB can't open either of the messages from Nokia Developer14:49
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Tendancy to bootloop.14:49
hiemanshu_can you please check?14:49
hiemanshu_oh ok14:50
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: when did you order it?14:50
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yeah, I noticed that like a year ago14:50
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, thursday next week14:50
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hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: what time?14:50
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, I mean, thursday last week14:50
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, dunno, somewhen in the afternoon maybe14:51
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hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: afternoon your time?14:51
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, yep. I'm in CEST.14:51
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: on very low battery the threshold between NOLO booting up linux and the whole system shutting down hard again is too small14:51
hiemanshu_oh ok14:51
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: (microB can't open) HAHA that's awesome14:52
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, can it open them for you?14:53
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: thought it's only me, with konqueror, who got issues with developer.nokia.com pages14:53
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, one guy in #meego-arm did manage to use that gap to download my charge script and start it ;p14:53
DocScrutinizercool14:53
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, using firefox, i had no issues with their website14:54
DocScrutinizeryep14:54
DocScrutinizerI even managed to fix konqueror finally, by enabling cookies, and clearing out all cookies left over from prev sessions14:55
hiemanshu_StatusNew Order F7U12!14:55
DocScrutinizerhave to redo that every now and then14:55
* SpeedEvil is also unsure why BME is screwing up.14:55
SpeedEvilSometimes my device will not charge with USB.14:56
SpeedEvilIt _will_ however charge with a stupid script to tickle the charge chip.14:56
DocScrutinizerseems they constantly are changing/fixing things with the developer.nokia.com login, as well as the ovi.com login14:56
hiemanshu_SpeedEvil: I have that issue too, if my battery is completely dead, I leave it to charge for an hour, unplug charger, power it on, and then plug it back again14:56
SpeedEvilhiemanshu: seperate issues14:56
DocScrutinizersince yesterday N950 accepted my nokia.com account, so I finally could start map14:57
SpeedEvilmap?14:57
SpeedEvilOh14:57
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yup, it wants you to register to nokia.com to get access to the map data14:58
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, btw, what use my order id would be for you?14:58
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: to know if they are going OID wise or just lucky draws14:58
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: cpscotti was 775, and someone else from here was a 7xx something14:59
Venemo_N900mhm14:59
Venemo_N900maybe I can look it up on webmail for you15:00
hiemanshu_32 people have got it 0_015:00
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: yeah, its a part of the email15:00
Venemo_N900hmm hiemanshu_, you're not gonna like this15:01
Venemo_N900hiemanshu, OID-05286915:01
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: thats nice :D15:01
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: mine is 88715:02
hiemanshu_if they are in order15:02
hiemanshu_I am close by15:02
Venemo_N900mhm15:02
hiemanshu_otherwise, FU15:02
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, hey. F me?15:02
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900: naah, the intern sending them15:02
* RST38h is 91015:03
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Venemo_N900well, if they are going by this order, then you'll have yours today too. tomorrow at worst15:04
RST38hDoes it mean it will take forever?15:04
* gri was 84715:04
hiemanshu_RST38h: they send yours then?15:04
RST38hWhat is the last OID we know they have sent?15:04
hiemanshu_RST38h: 869, Venemo_N90015:04
RST38hOk. Lots of OIDs to go then =(15:04
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hiemanshu_RST38h: if they are in order, I'll have mine sent soon15:05
lardmanI received my email today and my order # is OID-05277915:08
TermanaThey are not in order15:09
lardmanso I'm out of order apparently15:09
lardmanTermana: yeah15:09
TermanaI haven't received anything and I'm 75615:09
TermanaStill showing "New Order"15:09
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TermanaLike I said earlier, the order is simply decided by the statement,  rand() % 250 + 115:10
Termana:p15:10
* RST38h is risking not to get the device by September =(15:10
RST38hTermana: doesn't rand() return values in the 0.0..1.0 range?15:11
hiemanshu_RST38h: thats they the % 25015:11
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TermanaRST38h, no, it returns numbers in the range of 0 to RAND_MAX15:11
hiemanshu_lardman: so yours is being shipped too?15:11
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Termanain C++ at least15:11
grimaybe they sort by readability of names: my device package had a hand written sticker on it with my name :D15:12
hiemanshu_gri: everyone has it, atleast from what I have seen15:12
TermanaRAND_MAX being some high number that I don't remember off the top of my head15:12
hiemanshu_gri: but thats just to match the stickers with the packages15:12
Khertan_Morning15:12
hiemanshu_Khertan_: Morning, what is the status of your device?15:12
DocScrutinizer052736 FWIW15:13
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer: lol15:13
* Khertan_ is impatient to come back to home to play with his n95015:13
Khertan_hiemanshu_: at home waiting me on my desk15:13
hiemanshu_Khertan_: it reached so fast? 0_015:13
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Khertan_i was impress by dhl this time 10h to deliver it15:14
hiemanshu_yeah15:14
hiemanshu_damn, I just wish they ship mine soon15:14
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MohammadAGgrr15:14
MohammadAGStill new order15:15
Khertan_3h to reach germany, 2h to reach france ... to rest to travel to home15:15
hiemanshu_MohammadAG: order number?15:15
Khertan_s/to/the15:15
MohammadAGOID-05289615:15
lardmanhiemanshu_: yeah, I received an email this morning, though nothing from DHL yet15:15
hiemanshu_lardman: ah, wait for DHL15:15
hiemanshu_MohammadAG: a little after me15:15
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MohammadAGhiemanshu, yours shipped?15:15
hiemanshu_MohammadAG: no15:15
Khertan_lardman: yesterday i got email in morning , and dhl one follow at 17h fi time15:15
hiemanshu_lardman: dhl will be a bit late15:16
MohammadAGhiemanshu_, reassuring15:16
DocScrutinizerKhertan_: you may want to /join #harmattan15:16
Venemo_N900not yet, that is why he says FU to me.15:16
Venemo_N900lol, there is a harmattan channel now?15:17
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DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: yup, x-fade and dm8tbr discussed it and so it got greated15:17
DocScrutinizercreated*15:17
Venemo_N900mhm15:17
Venemo_N900don't understand why we can't discuss it in here15:18
lardmanI'd not be overly surprised to recieive the package before the email tbh knowing some shipping companies, no idea about dhl mind you15:18
Venemo_N900lardman, you received the device? :)15:18
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lardmanVenemo_N900: no, the email from nokia saying it has been shipped15:19
DocScrutinizerwell, my first mail with DHL tracking number was from:someguy@nokia15:19
CaCO3_MohammadAG: Mine is 052828, but still sais new order :|15:19
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lardmandocscrutinizer: hmm, ok15:19
Venemo_N900lardman, ah.15:19
DocScrutinizermakes sense as where from should DHL have your email-addr?15:20
Venemo_N900so anyway, how long does it take them to bring it here?15:20
kwtm2Hi. Am trying to figure out if the KochMorse.py python morse code trainer will work on the N900.  Does N900 use alsa or oss (or neither) for audio?  Is PulseAudio compatible with either?15:20
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DocScrutinizeralsa, and no15:21
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Venemo_N900kwtm2, best way is to try, either on a device, or in scratchbox15:21
DocScrutinizerwell, actually N900 uses PA15:21
Khertan_DocScrutinizer: they didn't have your adress until you give it to them, but nokia have tracking number and your email, so their delivery service sent you email :)15:21
DocScrutinizerKhertan_: exactly15:22
DocScrutinizerKhertan_: in fact I'd consider it data abuse when Nokia hands my email addr to DHL15:22
kwtm2Venemo_N900: Naturally I plan to try; but the reason I ask is not only to determine if it's not worth trying at all, but also to see if any failure is due to a misconfiguration on my part rather than that it actually isn't compatible.15:22
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, how many days was it between the time you got your "your order has been sent" mail and the day it actually arrived?15:23
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DocScrutinizererr, 115:23
Venemo_N900only?15:23
Venemo_N900that is nice15:23
DocScrutinizeryeah, DHL ships overnight15:23
kwtm2DocScrutinizer: So, it sounds like what you're saying is, there are two incompatible sound systems on N900 (alsa and pulseaudio) but I should be able to get the N900 to use alsa?15:23
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Venemo_N900kwtm2, if you use Linux, you can install the Maemo 5 SDK, launch the GUI and fire up this .py15:24
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Venemo_N900kwtm2, pulseaudio is supposed to be compatible with alsa, I heard15:24
DocScrutinizerkwtm2: they are not exactly incompatible, it's just PA is a sound server exploiting ALSA basics15:24
kwtm2DocScrutinizer: Got it.  Thx.15:24
DocScrutinizeralso PA offers a semi-functional ALSA compatibility plugin afaik15:24
hiemanshu_PA is more like an alsa plugin15:25
kwtm2hiemanshu_: Oh, I see.  Thanks!  That info lets me move ahead rapidly in my understanding of how Alsa and PA fit together.  Thanks!15:25
griwow, n950 has some nice lib names: libmaemomeegotouchcontentsearchinterface.so.1.0.015:25
DocScrutinizerso it's like app->pseudo-ALSA->PA->ALSA-soundcard15:25
hiemanshu_gri, hah15:25
Venemo_N900gri, lol15:26
hiemanshu_but Lennart is a total ass15:26
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Venemo_N900Lennart?15:26
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, the PA dev15:26
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, Lennart Pottering?15:27
DocScrutinizer~poettering15:27
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''15:27
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, yeah15:27
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, isn't he also the guy behind systemd?15:27
hiemanshu_met him a few times when he was in India15:27
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, yes15:27
hiemanshu_works for Red Hat15:27
DocScrutinizerand behind avahi GRRRRRRR >:-(15:27
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Venemo_N900he didn't seem like an ass to me15:28
kerioDocScrutinizer: we have to go deeper15:28
keriofind a way to make pulseaudio use alsa's OSS emulation15:28
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, you know him?15:28
Venemo_N900I once watched a presentation about systemd from him15:28
DocScrutinizerkerio: now THAT would be awesome15:28
Venemo_N900nope, I don't know him15:28
kerioDocScrutinizer: s/awesome/stupider/15:29
kwtm2Venemo_N900: In the interests of efficiency, I'd rather quickly find out the answer to my simple questions than download a SDK with which I am not familiar and use it to run a program with which I am not familiar, since I'm sure that will itself engender a number of additional questions that should be as simple as the ones I just asked.  I understand the mindset behind "try it and see" but for someone like me who is not set up to15:29
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, I know IRL, so yeah, I can say that he is one :P15:29
kerio(sic)15:29
kwtm2devote so much time to tinkering with software (I can probably spare about 10 minutes for this), information sharing from more experienced people is probably the most efficient way.  Thanks, though.15:29
Venemo_N900I also recall talking to him once on irc, he didn't seem an ass then either.15:29
Venemo_N900hiemanshu, well then, I suppose you are right :P15:29
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, well, it again depends on what you call an ass :P15:30
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hiemanshu_lol15:30
DocScrutinizerkwtm2: now what was that??15:30
MohammadAGoh crap, pycage got a defective device15:30
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Venemo_N900meh, sorry, xchat died15:31
hiemanshu_MohammadAG, yeah15:31
kwtm2DocScrutinizer: tl;dr version: asking on IRC is faster than downloading a SDK to try, not because I'm lazy but because I might run into other snags15:31
Venemo_N900whether he is an ass or not, he did nice work with systemd15:31
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hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, being an ass doesn't mean you cant be an awesome coder, I know a lot of people like that15:32
DocScrutinizerwell, to a certain degree that's what IRC is made for15:32
fralsMohammadAG: defective in what way?15:32
MohammadAGfrals, touchscreen15:32
hiemanshu_frals, touchscreen issues15:32
frals"issues"?15:32
hiemanshu_it wont work properly15:32
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, can I be not an ass but still an awesome developer?15:33
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, heh yeah :P15:33
Venemo_N900okay! :)15:33
hiemanshu_still no email, arrrgh!15:33
Venemo_N900patience is a virtue15:33
hiemanshu_I have none of it left15:33
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, and you say that because yours has been shipped15:34
fralswont work properly how?15:34
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: (systemd) just that I fail to see the need for yet another init system15:34
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DocScrutinizeras with almost all of peottering inventions15:34
hiemanshu_frals, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25703&postcount=58315:34
Venemo_N900well, when I first knew I was chosen, I estimated that I get it in two weeks.15:34
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hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, Lets re-invent the wheel, It will be so cool!15:34
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, well, systemd makes F15 boot a _lot_ faster than F1415:35
fralsok, so original description was as vague :)15:35
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, systemd isn't the only reason for that15:35
fralshiemanshu_: thanks15:35
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_: yeah, then have it mounted with witworth left turn bolts, and force it to whole wheel industry15:35
hiemanshu_frals, np, he did send an email to DDP though15:35
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, I know, but it's one of them15:35
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, anyways FUDCon in India, you coming? :P15:36
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, yeah, and then when people say its not worth it, start working on a new product15:36
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, India? I'm afraid I don't have the money to go there15:36
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: and what's the revolutionary new concept in systemd that makes this speedup happen, which couldn't get implemented into upstart or even initV?15:37
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, :(15:37
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, and with F14, on my desktop I got about 10-15 second boots15:37
kerioF15 boot?15:37
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, watch the presentation, it is well explained.15:38
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: I'm not complaining about people building better things, i'm complaining about them not caring about backward compatibility15:38
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, systemd is backward compatible afaict15:38
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, 15 secs? that is nice15:38
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, for me, F14 booted for a bit more than a minute, and F15 does in half a minute. after some tuning, I managed to get it below 20s15:39
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: I think I watched/read some stuff about systemd, and it seems there's nothing that's not been there in one form or another previously. So a complete redesign to fix minor flaws in existing software. Just like PA15:39
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: and yes, I read it *shall* be backward compatible15:39
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TermanaTalking about pulseaudio...15:40
DocScrutinizeras is supposed to be true for PA, just PA's ALSA emulation sucks donkey balls15:40
* Termana kicks pulseaudio into tomorrow15:40
Termanastupid piece of garbage15:40
Termanadarn bloody API crap15:40
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, well, as i recall, the main (as in most boasted) feature is that it can start and run stuff in parallel. I'm not sure why they couldn't just implement it in sysv or upstart though.15:40
TermanaI CHANGE 1 variable and all of a sudden my application starts working like it's suppose to. Lousy details and documentation on how some of the APIs work15:41
DocScrutinizerI think my Suse initV stuff does parallel startup since a decade15:41
Venemo_N900honestly, I don't care as long as it works and it works better than the old stuff.15:41
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: alas it doesn't15:42
TermanaNow I just have to hope that it works on the N950 as well as it is working on my desktop atm :\15:42
DocScrutinizerat least PA doesn't15:42
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, I'm not talking about pa.15:42
DocScrutinizerI'm just scared whenever I hear Poettering is threatening the world with a new brilliant thing to force into everything15:43
Venemo_N900hehe15:43
Venemo_N900Termana, why don't you just use QtMultimedia?15:44
DocScrutinizeras this guy gives not a rats ass about the people that need to keep old systems up and running and are concerned about no regressions with new stuff coming along15:45
fluxI don't think you can easily achieve the level of parallellism as systemd can, though, with sysv15:45
fluxyou'd need something like inetd for unix domain sockets to do that.15:45
Venemo_N900sysv is built for POSIX while systemd is optimized for linux specifically15:46
DocScrutinizerflux: quite a valid point15:46
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: another reason to hate it15:47
Venemo_N900hm?15:48
DocScrutinizeranother questionable notion of poettering - while for decades linux tried to get closer to a common unix standard, he seems to think linux has to take leadership and break new ground, no matter if unix at large will follow or even care15:48
DocScrutinizera rather androidesque notion15:49
fluxI think the worst side of these systems that come to replace old systems is the lack of documentation. although uni-platformness sucks as well.15:49
hiemanshu_still no email :(15:49
TermanaVenemo_N900, I'm not sure QtMultimedia is suited for real time digital signal processing15:49
Venemo_N900Termana, ah. probably not.15:49
fluxat least pulseaudio's advanced features appeared woefully underdocumented to me that last time I looked at them. and upstart's documentation has a lot to improve as well.15:50
hiemanshu_upstart is another stupid ubuntu project15:51
TermanaOn the other hand, using ALSA directly and not using pulseaudio would probably be better as well, but the N950 won't allow that easily I'm sure.15:51
hiemanshu_like unity15:51
DocScrutinizerTermana: definitely not, I heard Qt is using floats all over the place15:51
griDocScrutinizer: Already had a incoming call/sms with your n950? Mine can't assign names to messages when the contact is in the addressbook without +49 code - pretty annoying15:51
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DocScrutinizerTermana: even N900 doesn't easily allow that, as you will break all audio to make yours run15:52
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, any idea what stack nokia is using for the phone?15:52
DocScrutinizergri: nope15:52
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_: where?15:53
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, the phone/calling part15:53
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_: where?15:53
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hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, N950 :P15:53
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DocScrutinizersee? if you had asked that question on #harmattan, it would've been clear ;-D15:54
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, lol :P15:54
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DocScrutinizerno, I don't know for sure which telephony stacks are used in harmattan15:54
DocScrutinizerI guess (and idications for that are strong) that they still use phonet15:55
DocScrutinizerand of course telepathy on top of that15:56
Venemo_N900yep, thatams what I've heard15:56
hiemanshu_ah15:56
Venemo_N900gri, can you report the bug?15:56
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, no use, nobody will listen :P15:57
DocScrutinizerindeed15:57
DocScrutinizerthis is a completely obsolete OS version15:57
DocScrutinizerthe current version has 3000+ bugs fixed, according to konttori15:58
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hiemanshu_yeah, much more than I expect really15:58
Venemo_N900and what? they will fix bugs. this bug is absolutely embarassing if they want the device to be used by end users15:58
DocScrutinizerI don't think anybody at nokia will bother to check if any bug reported by N950 users is one of the 300 fixed ones, or actually a new one15:59
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, it might probably have been fixed, you cant say until you get the current image being used by the nokia devs15:59
Venemo_N900at least give them the chance fix it and report it15:59
fralsthere is a reason its *preproduction* software15:59
DocScrutinizers/300/3000/.15:59
griVenemo_N900: konttori reported they fixed around 3000 bugs since n950 fw (like doc said)15:59
griwe also have no close-swipe16:00
Venemo_N900why aren't they releasing a new image for us then?16:00
hiemanshu_gri, close swipe?16:00
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hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, ask someone who knows16:00
grihiemanshu: top-down closes application instantly on the n916:00
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, they say a new image might be out in 3 weeks or so16:01
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DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: you think somebody is going to spend days with triaging bugtickets against an obsolete OS? with a yield of 0.01% real bugs, while the rest already got fixed?16:01
griits a developer device, we should expect bugs and miss features :)16:01
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, it won't be obsolete for a few more months yet16:01
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, it already is16:01
Venemo_N900why is that?16:02
Venemo_N900anyway, I prefix all my contacts with +36, so this will probably not affect me.16:02
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: this N950 developer version harmattan been obsolete months before any of us learned about N950's existence16:02
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, because it is16:02
Venemo_N900aah.16:02
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, the image is dated 22-616:03
Venemo_N900so they deliberately flash an obsolete image version for us?16:03
Venemo_N900how annoying16:03
Venemo_N900but not surprising16:03
DocScrutinizernevertheless it's been forked months ago16:03
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, yeah, and we have to wait for a newer one16:03
frals*sigh*16:03
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, about 3 months?16:03
griVenemo_N900: I also miss the fixing of a bug that annoyed me on the n900: When calling via sip, it doesn't show the contact name in "recent calls" list, instead you see a "sip:1236456456@provider"16:03
hiemanshu_s/months/weeks/16:03
infobothiemanshu_ meant: Venemo_N900, about 3 weeks?16:03
hiemanshu_hey frals16:03
Venemo_N900ridiculous how they still haven't learned their lesson...16:04
hiemanshu_ok, if I dont get an email within the next 30 mins, I probably wont get one today16:04
fralsVenemo_N900: yes, ridiculous giving out devices for free before sales start of the enduser device so devs who are interested can see if theirs app run decently16:05
frals;(16:05
PolarFoxSound stupid indeed.16:05
Venemo_N900frals, that is a lesson they already learned at N900 time16:05
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hiemanshu_frals, well, if you want devs to do that, atleast give them without aegis16:06
Venemo_N900I'm talking about the fact that they don't follow the rule release early, release often16:06
fluxhiemanshu_, so when they finally make their apps, they won't work on the aegis-enabled devices?16:06
hiemanshu_flux, no, but an option to turn it off/on16:06
fralsVenemo_N900: i have a feeling Legal and certification etc puts a stop for that, unfortunately... but im not involved it that so i might be totally wrong16:07
DocScrutinizerflux: that's nonsense16:07
DocScrutinizerflux: there's a developer-mode of aegis, and this mode has to have NO restrictions at all16:07
frals804eea99a48bd7d8e1f078ee4d1eef046827629f d5f1af1960e2b9b78dbd4fdc019b0680a7695f25 a3a53fad32be4e09ac0395de0d803c247cad79e616:08
DocScrutinizerflux: while the "normal" mode of curse should be identical to sales version16:08
hiemanshu_frals, so did you email anyone about my rant from yesterday? I still haven't got my device shipped :P16:08
fralsops16:08
fralshiemanshu_: achipa saw it already as you said it, so i assume it got noticed at the right level ;-)16:08
RST38hfrals: Are these aegis unlock keys?16:08
hiemanshu_RST38h, looks like md5 hashes to me16:08
Venemo_N900frals, it is unfortunate indeed16:08
hiemanshu_frals, dammit, well everyone knows it was a rant :P16:09
DocScrutinizers/curse/course/16:09
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: flux: while the "normal" mode of course should be identical to sales version16:09
fralsRST38h: commits im about to cherry-pick ;)16:09
fluxdocscrutinizer, well, that would be ideal. but I imagine in principle it is possible to develop 'normal' apps even with aegis enabled.16:09
hiemanshu_frals, commits to?16:09
RST38h"in principle" is the keyword16:10
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fralshiemanshu_: what i do at work16:10
hiemanshu_frals, ah16:10
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fluxI wonder if anyone's tried if the frals' suggestion about disabling aegis on those developer devices, ie. does it really brick them :)16:10
DocScrutinizerflux: the very first thing I managed to do while trying to install and use a bash.deb deployed by Nokia(!) was to "brick" my device16:11
fralsflux: i think it results in the same screen as that DocScrutinizer got after trying to get bash running16:11
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fluxwell, those would be two different things, no?16:12
DocScrutinizerwhich 2 things are different? developing an app and trying to install bash?16:13
fluxtrying to tell the device to disable aegis and installing a deb16:13
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hiemanshu_flux, and how is that two different things?16:13
hiemanshu_flux, you cannot install apps because of aegis, which makes the dev devices useless until we get one16:14
hiemanshu_which allows you to install the .debs easily without making aegis cry16:14
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_: actually you *can* install apps that are built on your SDK16:14
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DocScrutinizeras the SDK is supposed to auto-create a manifest for your app16:15
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, but in a real world I am not going to install only apps built using my sdk16:15
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, for example, I'll need opencv16:15
DocScrutinizerthe question is how much we trust in that, when even Nokia manages to spoil things16:15
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_: yes, I'm aware16:15
hiemanshu_I am not going to write a manifest for the loads of files/libs it creates16:16
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alteregoAutomate it then ..16:16
DocScrutinizerit allegedly IS automated - in the SDK16:16
hiemanshu_hey alterego, your device shipped yet?16:17
DocScrutinizero/16:17
alteregoNope16:18
hiemanshu_DocScrutinizer, I compiled about 5 libs in the sbox SDK, but well no easy way to test it, without learning to package and writing a manifest16:18
alteregoStill "New Order"16:18
Venemo_N900alterego, :(16:18
hiemanshu_alterego, still hoping it is shipped today?16:18
alteregoMeh, I'm not too fussed tbh :P16:18
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alteregoAt least I know it's somewhere in the warehouse waiting for me :)16:18
Venemo_N900alterego, told ya it'll take 2 weeks16:18
alteregoVenemo_N900: I'd probably have it if there wasn't a cock up with my application :P16:19
hiemanshu_I move to a new place next week, and well I dont want to keep running up and down to check for my package16:19
Venemo_N900a cock up with your application??16:19
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alteregoVenemo_N900: well, they couldn't find my nokia developer account from the username and AID I provided ..16:19
hiemanshu_alterego, not really no, I haven't yet got it either :P16:19
alteregoDon't really know why, but meh.16:20
Venemo_N900alterego, LOL...16:20
alteregoSo that was resolved on Friday.16:20
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alteregoBut meh.16:20
Venemo_N900meh indeed16:20
alteregohiemanshu_: obviously it's still possible it'll ship today, but seems increasingly unlikely with every minute ;)16:21
alteregoNow I guess I hope it gets dispatched by Thursday so I have it for the weekend.16:21
Venemo_N900:)16:21
hiemanshu_alterego, hah, well I am not going to use the F5 button for the rest of the day today until I get back home16:21
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alteregohiemanshu_: meh, I've been checking maybe once every couple of hours16:22
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alteregoDoing it every five minutes isn't going to make it arrive any sooner.16:22
hiemanshu_alterego, I am away from my dev computer, so I have pretty nothing else to do :P16:22
alteregoAnd just makes you feel a bit frustrated :D16:22
alteregoHeh16:22
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hiemanshu_so I am playing flash games, watching random youtube videos and hitting F5 every now and then16:23
alteregoHeh16:23
vdv~optify16:24
vdv~optification16:24
infobothmm... optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot316:24
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hiemanshu_33 have received their devices, now I am starting to get worried :/16:26
Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, just make a script that hits F5 for you16:26
Termanahiemanshu_, didn't you just say you weren't going to check anymore? :p16:26
hiemanshu_Venemo_N900, meh, I am on a windows computer right now16:26
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hiemanshu_Termana, I checked the wiki page16:26
hiemanshu_Termana, and not the order pagea16:27
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Venemo_N900hiemanshu_, ah.16:27
hiemanshu_-s16:27
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Termanahiemanshu_, I'm wondering whether they just decided the 150 euro or so it's going to take for them to ship it to me was just not worth it? :P lol16:29
hiemanshu_Termana, well, trust me its worth it :P16:29
hiemanshu_anyways last time checking for the day, if nothing, then hoping for tomorrow :P16:30
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Lantiziais "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan" (the debian based MeeGo going on the N9) likely or unlikely to officially/unofficially be available for the N900 at some point?16:38
jonwil_not going to happen16:38
hiemanshu_Lantizia, unlikely, there is a Meego CE though16:38
hiemanshu_Lantizia, ask in #meego-arm16:38
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Lantiziahiemanshu, don't want rpm's16:39
hiemanshu_then unlikely16:39
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Lantiziaok back to work :S16:41
Lantiziathanx16:41
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hiemanshu_alterego, still expecting it to be shipped today? :P16:51
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alteregoNot particularly :P16:51
alteregoBut like I said, I don't really care either :P16:52
hiemanshu_alterego, well as long as it arrives before this weekend, its fine16:52
alteregoI'm sure I'll survive even if it doesn't :P16:52
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hiemanshu_well I'll survive too, but I'll move out of this house to a new place, so yeah, hoping to have it ASAP16:53
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* hiemanshu_ goes back to epic rap battles of history16:53
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rm_workyeah whatever, i'm busy this weekend too16:56
rm_workso caring less that i'm also still in "New Order"16:56
rm_workhow many have they been shipping per day?16:56
rm_workcan we tell?16:56
alteregoI think it's been sub 10016:56
hiemanshu_rm_work, not really no, but I am expecting around 20-3016:56
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alteregoYou have to remember that they're not just shipping N950s to people like us, they're shi[[ing all sorts of phones to all sorts of people and places.16:57
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alteregoSo it's quite a random number per day I'd imagine.16:57
hiemanshu_yeah, really random16:58
fiferboyWhat is strange is that when you placed your order doesn't seem to have any berring on when they'll ship it16:58
RST38hmoo rm_me16:58
RST38hfiferboy: that is because they do not know16:58
fiferboyRST38h: They don't know when the order was placed?16:59
hiemanshu_fiferboy, it said 1 week to receive it really16:59
hiemanshu_s/really//16:59
infobothiemanshu_ meant: fiferboy, it said 1 week to receive it16:59
RST38hfiferboy: the whole service is considered a courtesy and thus does not have any expectations attached16:59
fiferboyRST38h: I know, and I'm not complaining.  I just wonder how they choose which ones to ship16:59
fiferboyDo they just pull a random sample?16:59
hiemanshu_fiferboy, so far, randomness16:59
rm_workyeah, i expect the poor people whose job that is are freaking out T_T17:00
hiemanshu_yeah, some people from 7xx, 8xx, and 9xx got theirs shipped17:00
hiemanshu_rm_work, or laughing at us :P17:00
rm_worklol17:00
rm_workprolly like OMGWTF17:00
RST38hfiferboy: they do not, probably just have an intern randomly pulling emails =)17:00
rm_workgoing from shipping a few devices per day to OH MY GOD17:01
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* GAN900 moans.17:01
RST38hlike it has never happened before...17:01
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alteregoEither that or they're using evolution, I swear the ordering of messages in evolution is somehow annoyingly retarded.17:02
hiemanshu_GAN900, yours sent?17:02
lcuk<DawnFoster> Community office meeting starting now in #meego-meeting :)17:02
GAN900Nope17:02
hiemanshu_GAN900, dammit17:02
Scifigalterego: Or like modest on N900 where junk emails remain on top even after being read 7 days ago17:02
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alteregoCan;'t say I've had that problem, the only issue I've ever had with mail on the N900, is that now I can't seem to send any anymore.17:03
alteregoWhich started yesterday.17:04
rm_workalterego: T_T17:04
alteregoMust look into that.17:04
alteregoHrm, I want a script that will log wifi access points my device sees17:04
alteregoI thought that the wifi list was exposed over dbus, but can't seem to find anything ..17:05
alteregoOh, and signal strength and gps coordinates ;)17:05
rm_workthanks for the notice lcuk17:05
lcukthanks for noticing the notice rm_work \o17:06
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hiemanshu_alterego, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn7-fVtT16k17:07
rm_worklcuk: lol yeah i would expect weekend evenings to be THE HIGHEST USAGE :P17:08
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GAN900The randomness is the killer part.17:10
hiemanshu_yeah, maybe I should email DDP asking for a date so I can be expecting even after I have moved to a new place17:11
alteregoYou could probably get them to ship it priority if you give them a good reason to do it ;)17:12
hiemanshu_alterego, I am moving houses, the only reason for my urgency :P17:12
hiemanshu_but well I wouldn't whenever it is sent, after all we aren't paying a penny for it17:13
hiemanshu_+mind17:13
hiemanshu_alterego, saw the video I linked you to? a must watch :P17:14
alteregoYes, very funny :)17:14
MohammadAGany new N950 shipments today?17:17
GAN900Nokia: currying me of optimism at least once a year.17:17
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SpeedEvilGAN900: balti?17:21
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achipahiemanshu: noted17:23
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achipaand for all of you rest, I'm working on getting a bit more docs about aegis out than is in the current docs17:24
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SpeedEvilachipa: :)17:24
* SpeedEvil wonders idly about harmattan on n90017:24
Jaffaachipa: That wouldn't be hard.17:25
JaffaSpeedEvil: There's a quite amusing TMO thread17:25
achipaJaffa: what - that ?17:25
SpeedEvilI try to focus on more productive things than TMO. :)17:25
* achipa is stumped - got an update while the device was updating. First time I felt release often backfire this bad...17:26
achipas/fire/fired/17:26
fralsachipa: always press refresh before starting update ;-)17:26
achipafrals: right, right17:27
fiferboyMohammadAG: anidel and h0pbeat got shipping notices17:28
fiferboyNot me, still17:28
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JaffaSpeedEvil: "Harmattan HE" has people trying to pull stuff out of images17:28
SpeedEvilah17:28
SpeedEvilWith success yet?17:28
JaffaSomehwere under http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=104707217:28
MohammadAGit wouldn't be hard to get the swipe UI on the N90017:29
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JaffaSpeedEvil: Extracting stuff from images is easy, but running stuff is more interesting (and, presumably, harder)17:29
MohammadAGthough the edges of the device won't be helpful17:29
SpeedEvilJaffa: indeed.17:29
achipahiemanshu: as for manifests - let's not hate just for the sake of hating. install files are manifests. sudoers are a sort of manifests. So let's not go overboard there - as long as it's actually doable17:29
DocScrutinizerachipa: \o/ for docs on aegis17:30
fralsMohammadAG: that would not be porting, that would be writing your own implementation of someone elses design ;)17:31
MohammadAGfrals, no, it would be illegally copying all bins and libs onto MeeGoCE :P17:32
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SpeedEvilAh - diddn't realise there was hardware incompatibilities WRET thumbn in the processor17:33
SpeedEvilWhich would at least require a trap emulator layer17:33
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DocScrutinizerachipa: I'm just asking for a single manifest that enables virtually everything for root when in developer-mode17:34
Appiah-17:34
Appiahops17:34
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fluxspeedevil, just some binary conversion :)17:36
DocScrutinizer#harmattan getting on pace slowly17:37
achipaDocScrutinizer: yes, I know, I fully expect someone to make a "superbash" package that has all the grantable tokens17:37
DocScrutinizerJaffa: you might want to /join #harmattan17:37
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Already did 30 seconds ago :)17:37
DocScrutinizer:-)17:37
DocScrutinizerachipa: ^^^?17:37
DocScrutinizer#harmattan?17:38
DocScrutinizerachipa: great!17:38
DocScrutinizer(superbash)17:38
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SpeedEvilsuperbash?17:39
* SpeedEvil wants superuboot.17:39
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hiemanshuachipa: well once there are docs and its easier to automate it, I'll give it some love :)18:04
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hiemanshuachipa: I am used to scp-ing the cross compiled files for all my devices, so yeah, I'll take a while, but I'll come around :P18:05
achipaI'm pretty sure you can jerry-rig a process that would catch and execute your stuff18:06
achipabut as dpkg is the priority, the SDK naturally uses that by default18:06
hiemanshuyup, agreed18:07
vdvhow can i tell ls to show whether an object is symlink or not? ls -la should show that, but not in my case18:07
hiemanshuachipa: I just like to rant, so dont mind me :P18:07
vdvi do ls -la /opt18:07
vdvisn't it a symlink to /home/opt ?18:07
DocScrutinizervdv: it's a bindmount18:09
DocScrutinizeriirc18:09
vdvah, right, thanks18:10
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DocScrutinizer /home/opt on /opt type none (bind)18:11
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hiemanshuachipa: so far everything that has been done is awesome :)18:11
DocScrutinizerindeed, docs on devel.nokia seem better han ever18:12
DocScrutinizerstill missing some bits18:12
hiemanshuyeah, It was so easy to learn the qt-components bits, lovely docs18:13
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javispedronote: the method I mentioned yesterday does work for running arbitrary (without digsig) binaries, at least as user.18:19
hiemanshujavispedro: which one?18:19
javispedroaegis-developer-mode --relaxec-exec18:20
javispedro*relaxed (damn, this word seems to refuse being spelt correctly)18:20
hiemanshujavispedro: ah, thanks18:20
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djszapiis there a way to build N9 packages without scratchbox ?18:20
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javispedrowas that a new record of "ask question -> leave"?18:21
javispedrohe didn't even wait for the answer =)18:21
hiemanshujavispedro: naah, 9 seconds gap, so no18:21
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javispedrobtw, if you are serious about that #harmattan channel (I still think it's a bad idea), please have it logged ASAP.18:22
javispedrootherwise it is an information black hole, like Facebook or similar sites.18:22
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javispedro~seen mgedmin18:24
infobotmgedmin is currently on #maemo #storm, last said: '/home is on the root fs, so reflashing wipes it -- it's only /home/user/MyDocs that's preserved (unless you reflash eMMC)'.18:24
rm_workyeah harmattan discussion really can just be here probably :/18:26
nmjnbI'm trying to reflash my n900 with the fiasco but I'm having trouble getting a connection with my windows pc. (Win 7 32bit) Any suggestions for a solution?18:26
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CaCO3nmjnb: do you get a normal connection to win 7?18:28
nmjnbCaCO3: no, it's been a while since that worked.18:28
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nmjnbI try putting it in pc suite mode, but still doesn't find my phone. Just connecting to copy from/to internal memory is no problem.18:29
CaCO3nmjnb: I am not even sure if it works on win 7. could you try on an win XP or linux?18:29
nmjnbI thought it would be alright with 32bit OS. I don't have an XP right here, I do have a machine running Ubuntu Server UEC. Would that work?18:30
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RST38hMoo.18:30
javispedromoo RST38h18:30
CaCO3nmjnb: well, if you can copy data from/to it, then it seems to be ok18:30
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CaCO3nmjnb: for teh flasher, just reboot the phone while keyboard open and "U" pressed18:31
nmjnbI could install a virtual in virtualbox, but I don't know if it get's full connection to the usb-ports or if windows will control the flow somehow.18:31
achipaPeople in australia now probably think I'm a perv and it's all Ovi's fault18:31
lolcatachipa: Why do they?18:31
nmjnbCaCO3: I did that, but I should have the flasher running on the computer, right? And that's what I did, but it said it couldn't find any device.18:31
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achipaI demoed ovi store deep integration. Unfortunately the only content available for the region and device (and thus served in my demo application) was http://store.ovi.com/content/4992718:33
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achipaoops18:33
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CaCO3nmjnb: you should also be able to start the flasher while the phone is waiting (showing the USB icon on top right corner)18:33
hiemanshuachipa: wrong window? :P18:33
achipano, wrong content - thanks to Ovi store :(18:34
nmjnbachipa: at least it was a hottie..18:34
CaCO3and people pay for that????18:34
javispedroyes, your demo will now be forever burned into the minds of your audience =)18:35
nmjnbCaCO3: I've tried that also, no luck.18:35
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CaCO3(not that it is not nice, but I never would give money :)18:35
nmjnbThey pay just to download that picture?18:35
CaCO3nmjnb: whichg flasher are you using?18:35
achipayeah, they will surely remember ... though not necessarily in the best of ways18:35
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nmjnbflasher 3.11.3 is what it says in one of the text files but I don't know for sure..18:37
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nmjnbit's the only up to date windows version.18:37
hiemanshunmjnb: double check, if you downloaded the N900 one or the N950 one18:37
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CaCO3I usually use maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.218:39
nmjnbactually, on the page it said n950, but I assumed it would be backwards compatible18:39
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hiemanshunmjnb: its not, grab the N900 one18:40
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nmjnbthere is none that say it's compatible for the n900. I'll check the old downloads.18:41
nmjnbnope, none that say it's for the n90018:41
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nmjnbhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php18:41
hiemanshunmjnb: maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.exe18:42
hiemanshunmjnb: Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool for Fremantle and Diablo, installation package for Windows 7, XP and Vista (x86, 32-bit), thats one you need18:42
nmjnbhiemanshu: ok, strange that they don't write that it's for the n900 then18:42
hiemanshunmjnb: N900 is fremantle :P18:42
CaCO3well, up to now it was for all devices I guess, but now N950 got a new one18:43
nmjnbhiemanshu: hehe, ok.. I'm not a developer... :P18:44
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nmjnbjust trying to get more out of my phone. And right now I got a bit too much.. installing the "kernel power" kernel. Got some issues so I'm trying to revert.18:45
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CaCO3nmjnb: I suggest to use backum-menu. always helped me to restore a working system18:46
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nmjnbCaCO3: what's that?18:47
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slonopotamus_how i input numbers in dosbox on n900?18:48
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CaCO3nmjnb: http://maemo.org/packages/view/backupmenu/18:49
CaCO3works great for me18:49
nmjnbcan I install it from aptitude?18:50
slonopotamus_javispedro: google suggests ypu know the trick :)18:50
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nmjnbbtw, I tried the other flasher, still same problem. It doesn't find the unit. Perhaps it's a problem with my OS then.18:50
javispedroslonopotamus_: what's your n900 keyboard layout? us?18:51
slonopotamus_javispedro: ru18:51
slonopotamus_javispedro: with broken-minded arrows :)18:51
CaCO3you will even find it in the package manager or also attitude if you prefer18:52
nmjnbbroken minded arrows? meaning you don't have 4 separate keys for the arrows?18:52
RST38hslono: that can be fixed18:52
lardmanhmm, still no DHL email18:52
nmjnbCaCO3: ok, thanks18:52
RST38hslono: there is a proper cyrillic keyboard, apparently chinese made18:52
nmjnbbut I guess it's too late now anyway. I need to get a new kernel in.18:52
slonopotamus_nmjnb: 2 keys, up/left and down/right (need Fn)18:52
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slonopotamus_RST38h: that's irrelevant, i just want to type numbers into dosbox :)18:53
javispedroslonopotamus_: well, ru layout is not done =) but if you only need numbers, or can stand US layout, get http://depot.javispedro.com/dosbox/rover/rover.sys , place it on C: , and run keyb rover.sys us18:53
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slonopotamus_javispedro: and how i enter numbers after that?18:55
javispedrohold fn + number key18:55
nmjnbFn + the upper row, I guess18:55
slonopotamus_javispedro: keyb said "No layout auto". is it ok?18:55
slonopotamus_javispedro: pressing Fn immediately produces a backtick :/18:56
javispedrono, it's ok.18:56
javispedrois this dosbox from extras? or is this someone else's?18:57
javispedro*it's not ok :)18:57
slonopotamus_extras18:57
slonopotamus_javispedro: also, in terminal: KEYB: ./rover.sys: Library file, but no layoutName18:58
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javispedro"keyb rover.sys us"18:59
slonopotamus_javispedro: at least arrows work (as in us layout, 4 separate keys)18:59
javispedroalso remember DOS uses \, not forward slash18:59
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slonopotamus_javispedro: woot18:59
nmjnbif someone likes to play games on their n900, the us layout is also needed to get the 4 arrows. Most games are made for them.19:00
nmjnbI can just walk to the sides, get's boring after 2 hours... ;)19:00
slonopotamus_holy crap, eye of beholder I on n900 :D19:02
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Triscar0hi, my n900 boots up and i get sim card registration failure? how can i fix this?, tryed to reflash it but didnt work19:06
CaCO3Triscar0: did you try a restart and removing/reinstalling the sim?19:07
Triscar0yes, can try again.19:07
CaCO3and is it working on another phone?19:07
DocScrutinizercheck SIM with other phone, check phone with other SIM19:08
slonopotamus_Triscar0: try putting something between sim card holder and battery :) folded piece of paper, for example19:09
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus_: meh19:09
slonopotamus_DocScrutinizer: that fixed mine :)19:10
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus_: will at least need to be skin of a lizard19:10
nmjnb"http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)"19:10
slonopotamus_javispedro: no right-click?19:10
javispedrono19:10
nmjnbI can't access the extras devel repo from my n90019:11
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nmjnbSub-process gzip returned an error code, so I have an issue with my gunzip?19:12
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus_: if that helped then not because it did anything with SIM, but because it bent the mainboard so the solderballs of modem chip BGA got some temporary contact again19:12
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DocScrutinizerslonopotamus_: SpeedEvil could fix his by pressing "E" key on kbd, or did it break things? cant rememeber19:13
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DocScrutinizerTriscar0: clean the SIM contacts and gold dprings in cardholder with unvarnished paper like business card. try SIM on other phone to make sure it's not an account issue, clean contacts again, test with other SIM. If that all doesn't help, you're in for a repair or a N819:15
slonopotamus_javispedro: i can't fight :(19:15
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: not me - maybe someone else19:19
Triscar0DocScrutinizer, it works in my other phone, but the problem was that lost it on the floor and the touch screen dident work, people called me but i culd not answer. but when i fixed the touch screen and booted up i get the sim error19:19
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alteregolooks like another order has gone through.19:21
alteregoOh wait, he's on "New Order" too :D19:21
DocScrutinizerTriscar0: seems your modem is broken then19:22
hiemanshualterego: who? :P19:23
cpscottione thing that's bugging me; Seeing all this talk about relentless F5ing I wonder.. am I the only one who actually uses ctrl+R instead of F5?19:23
DocScrutinizerif you're lucky it'sonly the SIM holder that is broken19:23
alteregoqole19:24
alteregohiemanshu: ^19:24
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hiemanshucpscotti: maybe yeah19:24
hiemanshubut I fixed my F5 key :P19:24
hiemanshuagain19:24
fiferboyalterego: Yeah, I thought he was shipped too at first19:25
hiemanshuah ok19:25
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cpscottihiemanshu, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/385367/what-requests-do-browsers-f5-and-ctrl-f5-refreshes-generate :D19:26
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hiemanshucpscotti: yeah, I know that :P19:26
cpscottihiemanshu, .. that's how paranoid I am :D19:27
hiemanshucpscotti: but you are getting yours, got a tracking number yet?19:27
cpscottiyup!19:27
cpscottihttp://www.dhl.fi/content/fi/en/express/tracking.shtml?brand=DHL&AWB=9574566842%0D%0A19:27
cpscottilolhehe19:28
hiemanshucpscotti: bad idea to share it with me, I am going to intercept the package and steal it19:28
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CaCO3if you really are paranoid, use this: http://www.check4change.com19:29
cpscottihiemanshu, lol19:29
hiemanshucpscotti: you know I'll do it, I have a lot of contacts in London19:30
cpscottiCaCO3, cool! :D19:30
cpscottihiemanshu, would you be THAT evil?19:30
hiemanshucpscotti: ja19:30
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cpscottihiemanshu, goosh! What did I do! :O19:32
hiemanshucpscotti: got yours shipped before mine?19:32
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cpscottihiemanshu,  hmm.. almost fair.. Yours will be shipped soon dude.. be cool19:34
hiemanshucpscotti: I know I know, I am just bored right now19:34
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* cpscotti trying the "Negotiator" role. 19:37
hiemanshuI need to buy an X7 as well some time soon19:38
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hiemanshujust for the 4" AMOLED screen19:38
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piggzhiemanshu: why not get a screen from ebay, and try and solder it to your n950 when it arrives...could be the first hw mod ;)19:46
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hiemanshupiggz: hah, if only it was that easy :P19:46
hiemanshupiggz: well the X7 can house a uSD card, so makes sense to get one and load some movies/music on it19:47
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GeneralAntillesBoo #harmattan. Jaffa / DocScrutinizer.19:50
DocScrutinizereh?19:51
GeneralAntillesJust use #maemo and #meego19:51
GeneralAntillesThis place needs productive life in it anyway.19:51
vdv~optification19:51
infobothmm... optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot319:51
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I guess there will be more productive life related to M5 when there aren't 90% annoying posts about meego-harmattan specific stuff19:53
GeneralAntillesMmm19:54
GeneralAntillesDoubt it.19:54
GeneralAntillesI'm not adding another channel to my mix.19:54
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DocScrutinizer[2011-07-12 06:25:08] <dm8tbr> MohammadAG: well the problems don't fit in the #meego* channels (unless it's CE) and at least the marketing side is probably sad about anything that associates it with maemo, even if it is maemo619:56
DocScrutinizernot the whole story which involved x-fade as well iirc19:56
dm8tbrIf we see that things have settled we can just redirect the channel here or wherever appropriate19:57
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Triscar0DocScrutinizer, still cant get it to work with a pease off paper behind the sim and battery:D20:00
* RST38h equates Harmattan with Maemo20:00
RST38hWhatever the marketing has been forced to say20:00
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RST38hBesides, mentioning Harmattan on #meego will cause Qt and Intel people permanent butthurt20:01
RST38hthem hates it20:01
DocScrutinizerTriscar0: told you it has to be lizard skin at very least. Mere cheap paper won't do20:04
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piggzebay has a listing for an n950 car holder...looks very generic, wonder if its ok20:07
RST38hhttp://www.rethink-wireless.com/2011/07/12/wp7-very-small-admits-ballmer.htm20:08
RST38h"You know, a year ago we didn't have a phone in the market. Now we're charging forward with Nokia."20:09
javispedrohey, pat the man in the back.20:10
RST38hs/pat/?20:11
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* RST38h looks for a shovel20:11
javispedrothat would work too.20:11
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piggzdoes anyone know why an app using QtLocation needs to be run with ld_library_path=/opt/qtm12/lib .... should that not be a default directory to search in?20:11
ieatlintyeah, he more i play with harmattan, the more i feel depressed about it being abandoned20:12
javispedroso, will micronokia tank or will they actually succeed in increasing WP7 market share?20:13
javispedrocurrently WP7's market share is lower than that of the _old_ PalmOS devices =)20:13
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ieatlintbut higher than meego :P20:14
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GeneralAntillesNot surprising given the lack of devices.20:15
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ieatlinti still feel that meego is just a victim of symbian20:16
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hiemanshunaaaah, android is the next symbian20:16
ieatlinti've heard too many rumours of symbian folks trying to delay meego/maemo because they saw it as replacing their jobs20:16
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piggzsymbian isnt that bad...by test device, a 5800 with no sim in it, has a battery life of ~1 month when not on any network20:17
ieatlintor of symbian folks being transferred to meego/maemo and being completely incompetent (see symbian quality/features for details)20:17
hiemanshuieatlint: lol20:17
ieatlintpiggz: symbian is the windows me of the smartphone world20:18
hiemanshuieatlint: and android is the vista?20:18
ieatlintwin 3.11 was revolutionary in its day, and so was win95... but they just kept patching an outdated and shaky base until suddenly there was win me20:19
ieatlintand that today is symbian 320:19
ieatlinthiemanshu: haha, perhaps20:19
piggzwell, i always knew winme was terrible, i havnt had the same feelings for symbian20:19
piggzyes it is old20:19
hiemanshuieatlint: well it was an upgrade from XP, with more features, but slower and stupid20:19
ieatlintexcept android is far more fractured20:19
hiemanshuI have loved the S60v1/2/3 devices for a long long time20:20
GeneralAntillespiggz, so did the 770.20:20
ieatlinti loved my n80 with s60v320:20
ieatlintbut i have an n8, c7 and e7, all on symbian 3, and bleh20:20
piggzi loved my e7120:20
ieatlintused the e7 as my primary phone for 3 months, it had little things that were nice20:21
ieatlintbut overall just sucked20:21
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* Sicelo is reading up on the Y-cable for hostmode20:49
shanttuhi, i got a new device and used Backupmenu to restore. Some apps won't start: error while loading shared libraries: libQtGui.so420:51
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shanttu/var/cache/ does not contain any lists. What to do?20:51
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hanspeterhow can i unmute my n900 using dbus?20:57
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GeneralAntillesI think the unfortunate thing about these shipping delays is that Nokia's losing a lot of enthusiasm from their devs.20:58
NIN101hanspeter: You may find what you need probably here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control20:58
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Itschuetoday i loadbattery at my n900 and it restarts then im looking vor reason in lifeguard_restarts and there are this /usr/bin/ohm-session-agent: 121:00
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Itschueand this /usr/bin/syncd: 1   /usr/sbin/browserd -d: 121:00
Itschuethen i will look vor proc/bootreason and there is the same and know aprox. 45min later the files is empty21:01
Itschuewhy does it restart21:01
Itschueanyone know something or can help21:02
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piggzGeneralAntilles: i doubt it.....all the comments seem to be in jest, im sure everyon knows they will come21:04
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javispedrohah!21:06
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Itschue?21:08
javispedroI bet my n950 is the first to lose the dreaded developer edition branding! >:D21:08
* javispedro purged it21:09
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javispedrofor the record, you need to edit themes/blanco/meegotouch/constants.ini, remove references to dev_21:10
hiemanshujavispedro: maybe I'll make an app to do all this :D21:11
javispedroand themes/base/meegotouch/sysuid/style/statusarea.css, remove references to dadd21:11
hiemanshujavispedro: care to upload the edited files?21:11
javispedrohiemanshu: dunno whether nokia wants us to remove the branding ;)21:11
hiemanshujavispedro: MEH, I am gonna remove it either ways21:12
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javispedroI can upload base (free) but not blanco (nonfree)21:12
javispedroeither way the changes are trivial21:12
javispedrothere's just like 4 lines in each21:13
hiemanshuah ok21:13
hiemanshujavispedro: add it to your wiki page or something?21:13
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DocScrutinizerI want JR ACME Edition21:14
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DocScrutinizer:-P21:14
piggzi cant decide what to code tonight....21:14
piggzjacekowski: the branding makes it more desirable :)21:15
ieatlintjavispedro: can you change the text though?21:15
javispedroieatlint: it's an image.21:15
ieatlintfor instance, can i change it to say "WINDOWS PHONE 7" and then convince a bunch of people at the pub that it's the new secret edition coming out?21:16
javispedroyou could probably theme it to resemble wp721:16
DocScrutinizermeh21:16
DocScrutinizertheme it to resemble wordperfect YEAH21:16
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GAN900I really hate WP7's fonts.21:17
ieatlintsomeone go make a "February 11th, 2011: Never Forget" theme21:17
piggzbut then they'd be like 'wp7 is so cool, i gotta get one', and then they might beat you up when they reaslise its shit21:17
Itschuecan anyone explain me what the bootreasons are mean?21:18
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DocScrutinizerI wonder when WP got replaced by OOo on my machine, while I didn't notice :-/21:19
javispedrohiemanshu: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/N950#Remove_.22developer_edition.22_branding21:19
hiemanshujavispedro: ty21:20
Itschuetoday i loadbattery at my n900 and it restarts then im looking vor reason in lifeguard_restarts and there are this /usr/bin/ohm-session-agent: 1   /usr/bin/syncd: 1   /usr/sbin/browserd -d: 121:20
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DocScrutinizeronly wordmaster that came with wordstar on CPM was maybe more awesome than WP21:22
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RST38han interview with Chris Dibona in Der Standard. Within, he declares Android as "... the dream come true. It's your Linux desktop, it's tthe ultimate success story of Linux that I've been working on personally since 1995."21:22
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DocScrutinizersucker21:23
RST38hheya vdvsx21:23
DocScrutinizerVDVsx: duh, long time no see21:23
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VDVsxRST38h: DocScrutinizer hey, was here last weekend, IIRC :)21:24
javispedroRST38h: no way, since 1995?21:24
DocScrutinizerhmm21:24
RST38hDoc:On the other hand, hard to argue with him seeing how Android has dropped the software prices to pretty much 021:24
RST38hjavispedr: yeaaah21:24
javispedrosuuuuuuuuure.21:24
DocScrutinizerI'm losing the overview21:24
Itschueim waiting21:25
RST38hDoc: The Android Market is overflowing with free or dirt cheap stuff. Not a lot of it is original or even working, but it is Free!21:25
javispedrono way to get all the BeOS and PalmOS influence if he started on 1995.21:25
RST38hYou wanted free shit, you have got free shit!=)21:25
javispedroUnless he means he started eyeing hiring Be guys in the '95s =)21:25
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RST38hjavispedro: I think he is counting from the creating of the Linux kernel or something21:25
RST38hcreation21:26
javispedromore like some epoch he just made up, like when he installed mandrake for the first time or the like21:26
DocScrutinizererrr21:26
javispedroAndroid is this decade's Windows CE.21:27
RST38h100% true21:27
RST38hAnd Nokia has lost the opportunity between the death of CE an the arrival of Android21:27
javispedroit's curious. wasn't symbian 100% free for a time?21:28
RST38hno do notthink so21:28
RST38hAlso even if it were free, can you imagine the cost of hw adaptation?21:29
javispedroyeah.21:29
javispedrobut Android's cost surely was similarly high in the first days21:29
RST38hno, way less21:30
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RST38hAndroid is Linux based after all21:30
RST38hCE also wasn't very costly to port21:30
javispedrosimple reason21:30
javispedroback then, SOC, board, etc. manufacturers provided BSPs21:30
RST38hstill doo21:30
javispedrobut these days you see more providing linux stuff21:31
piggzthere was still a cost for android, you had to pay to include the google apps21:31
RST38hso, chinese did not include google apps21:31
javispedroRST38h: there was a time during the CE -> Linux transition where you had to basically wait for someone with deeper pockets to do the Linux adaptation for you (see first Palm Pre)21:31
javispedronowadays they just get it from SOC provider21:32
RST38hmmm...yes and no21:32
RST38hSee Open Embedded21:32
RST38hAlso see Embedded Valley company21:32
javispedrothey _used_ Open Embedded.21:32
javispedroand yet the kernel work had to eventually come from nokia..21:33
RST38hanyway, I think Dibona has drunk too much koolaid21:33
javispedroas usual21:34
GeneralAntillesIs there a Qt Components for Fremantle yet?21:35
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piggzGeneralAntilles: yes21:37
javispedroyes?21:38
javispedrowhere=21:38
javispedro?21:38
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Itschuedocscrutinizer no time?21:38
GeneralAntillesalterego, ping?21:38
piggzah, i have it from an inside source ;)21:39
GeneralAntillesI have an N900, be easier to test with that.21:39
piggzhttp://pastebin.com/Kj9f8RDL21:40
GeneralAntillesThis is pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/nokia21:40
* ruskie wonders when someone will make a nice app that will make use of the accelrometer and would get a random post from icanhascheezeburger and related pages and possibly other pages as well...21:40
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: the N950 & N9 ads have so far been all .... design student's orgasms as tvtropes put it...21:41
GeneralAntilleslol21:41
RST38hjavispedro: They ARE design student orgasms, the evil Finns are keeping their design interns captive, torturing them into creation of these ads!21:43
javispedrowell, _some_ marketing is better than nothing!21:43
javispedroso I say keep them captive for the time being.21:44
javispedrooh21:47
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javispedrojust realized that the few seconds of the n9 commercial are the n950 bootscreen21:48
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javispedrohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRbktl-yZPQ21:48
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Itschuen9 is that the n900 or n8 successor21:49
javispedro(the sanest ad of them all, because it at least _showcases_ the phone itself..)21:49
wmaroneItschue: sorta both21:50
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* RST38h wonders if anyone at Nokia marketing dpt is considering suicide nowadays, with all the contradicting messages that have to deliver...21:50
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derfRST38h: I would think that would be their highest calling.21:51
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Itschuesorta?21:51
RST38hN950 is mighty cooool^H^Hwait, it is not sold to the users, only to developers, ok N9 then, really goood, oh, no, N9 will not be a success even if it a success, it will run Windows instead ehrrrm21:51
javispedroRST38h: somehow I think the message is to ignore all of that and just tell the audience "here is a new shiny phone. it runs some OS you might not know. buy it."21:52
RST38hAnd I am not even touching on the Symbian stuff =)21:52
RST38hjavispedro: Yea, that is the only solution, other than calling in sick21:52
derfThe kind of person who goes into marketing is the kind who can hold three contradictory ideas in their head simultaneously and think all of them are awesome.21:52
RST38hjavispedro: But then, even THAT message will have to change to the opposite really quick21:53
RST38hderf: I.e. a clinical imbecile?21:53
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derfRST38h: I don't think a clinical imbecile could hold three ideas in their head, simultaneously or not.21:53
Itschuehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn7zUOKcQzk&feature=related the first featur is great21:55
javispedroyou mean the oled screen always turned on?21:55
javispedrowell, an oled "pixel" has around 1 year expected life.21:56
javispedro(when always on)21:56
RST38hbut of course it is not always on21:57
javispedrothe clock moves around seemingly21:57
Itschueno thze clock and other inormation on the screen21:57
Itschuebut the screen can be off and double click show time calls sms21:58
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Axesinger*HI*22:21
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: the calltimer scripts returns 0 for me :(, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=501624&postcount=622:41
trumeeDocScrutinizer: although i do see end_time being updated in the sqlite table22:41
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vdvis it possible to search repos with dpkg or apt-get?23:04
vdv*search for a given package23:04
wmaroneapt-cache search <search words>23:05
vdvwmarone, thanks :)23:05
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cehtehany idea how to configure dbus-scripts properly to startup and listen to the users session bus too?23:16
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cehtehah .. wiki to the rescue23:19
Atariidid you sorrt it?23:20
DocScrutinizerwow, now that's one nasty red indicator light above the 950's main camera23:21
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DocScrutinizercehteh: I wonder as well23:22
cehtehhttp://wiki.maemo.org/DbusScripts#Running_dbus-scripts_on_the_session_bus23:22
DocScrutinizermind to share a link?23:22
DocScrutinizer:-)23:22
cehtehbut stop ...23:22
cehtehi just do:23:22
cehtehcat /etc/default/dbus-scripts23:23
cehtehDAEMON_OPTS="--system"23:23
cehteh..23:23
cehtehchange that to23:23
cehtehDAEMON_OPTS="--system --session"23:23
cehteh.. lemme try23:23
DocScrutinizerhmmmm23:24
DocScrutinizerdbus-monitor [--system | --session]23:24
DocScrutinizerthough:23:25
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# dbus-monitor --system --session23:25
DocScrutinizersignal sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> dest=:1.133 serial=2 path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=NameAcquired23:25
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cehtehyeah lemme try23:26
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cehtehwell i wondering because it must listen to the users dbus session and not to root's23:27
cehtehok this doesnt work23:27
cehtehah it doesnt use the /etc/defaults .. upstate hardcodes --system23:28
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cehtehfsck23:29
* cehteh pukes on upstart23:30
trumeeDocScrutinizer: Did you try that script? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=501624&postcount=623:31
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: i suspect the database structure changed in PR1.2 causing the sql to fail.23:33
DocScrutinizertrumee: indeed, it did - iirc23:33
trumeeDocScrutinizer: i need a sql pro to look into it :)23:33
DocScrutinizerhoot23:34
DocScrutinizershoot even23:34
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DocScrutinizerI'm no pro, but I used it a bit in the past23:34
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cehtehstart dbus-scripts-session23:42
cehtehstart: dbus-scripts-session respawning too fast, stopped23:42
cehteh.. i luv yo upstart23:42
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: there is no RTCOM_EL_EVENTTYPE_CALL_OUTBOUND, need to remove the _OUTBOUND bit from the string. then it works.23:46
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DocScrutinizertrumee: this will most probably count *all* calls (i.e. inbound as well as outbound)23:53
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Yours dispatched?23:54
GeneralAntillesNope23:54
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: true, my sqlite database EventTypes table is funny23:55
DocScrutinizertrumee: dump EventTypes table and see if you can spot what's the name of an outbound call event now23:56
trumeeDocScrutinizer: there no 'id' 2 in the data23:56
trumeeDocScrutinizer: yes, dont see the outbound call event in there23:56
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DocScrutinizertrumee: dump eventlogger table and spot an outbound call, see what EventType it got23:57
cehtehgot it working meanwhile23:57
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Oh well. DocScrutinizer's right j if you make a lot of phone calls, 1.2011.22-6 isn't a primary device OS. I've had reception/audio problems after about 90 seconds on phone calls.23:57
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GeneralAntillesYeah, maybe 2-3 phonecalls a week.23:58
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JaffaSimilar here. Switching to speaker phone and back 'seems* to help23:59
GeneralAntillesSeems like it'd be a wise idea for them to get the latest firmware to devs ASAP23:59
GeneralAntillesBut it also seems like it'd be a wise idea for them to get DEVICES to devs ASAP.23:59
DocScrutinizerJaffa: seems you are using a device where "-" is symbol of "j"? ;-)23:59
javispedroalso, browser crashes a lot23:59
javispedro_a lot_23:59

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