IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-07-11

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jacekowski	every drm can be cracked	00:00
jacekowski	it's just matter of time and effort	00:01
jacekowski	or sometimes it's just easier to get another phone	00:01
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achipa	it's not a DRM, not that anyone cares	00:06
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Venemo	does it have any advantages at all?	00:12
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nusse	anyone using bluetooth pan? just recently my bt connection drops every other minute and i have no clue how to fix that	00:21
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Macer	http://www.archive.org/details/ComputerNetworks_TheHeraldsOfResourceSharing	00:30
Macer	lmao! awesome!	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	nusse: interference with nearby WLAN?	00:33
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DocScrutinizer	lmao not playing anything	00:37
nusse	never heard of that, linkquality ist reported to be 255	00:38
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vi___	yo guys	01:02
vi___	how do I launch rtcom-call from xterm?	01:02
ruskie	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control <-- maybe this page can help vi___	01:04
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vi___	-_- it is first on the list	01:08
ruskie	hehe	01:08
vi___	my noobishness has brought shame to this channel	01:08
ruskie	not really	01:08
vi___	ty anyway	01:08
ruskie	yw	01:08
vi___	next question, what is the best way to parse an xml file to get the 'meat' ot with bash?	01:10
piggz	im trying to upload a new package to extras-builder, but am getting a 'file upload error' are there any known issues atm?	01:10
vi___	i.e. an RSS feed	01:10
vi___	dont worry, I dont really expect an answer	01:11
ruskie	vi___, if you want rss there is rsstail that can help	01:11
ruskie	if you want generic xml... xml-twig can be helpful	01:11
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ruskie	xml-twig has xml-grep	01:11
ruskie	it is perl though	01:12
piggz	found http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74703	01:13
vi___	perl	01:13
* vi___ shudders		01:13
ruskie	hehe	01:13
ruskie	you just use xml-grep	01:13
ruskie	same way as you would grep	01:14
ruskie	don't need to know anything about perl at all	01:14
ruskie	or you can figure out an awk/sed parser for it...	01:14
ruskie	frankly I find that most times I don't need full xml... just sed from line starting with <a> to line that has <b>	01:15
ruskie	and sed can do that well enough	01:15
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vi___	mmm	01:16
vi___	rsstail looks exactly like what I want	01:16
vi___	actually, looking at the feed I am interested in	01:18
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vi___	all I need is the data between <description> <description />	01:18
vi___	all this because all the RSS widgets suck!	01:19
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vi___	ok bb	01:23
vi___	:q	01:23
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DocScrutinizer	vi___ loves to exaggerate	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	or I simply dunno that emoticon	01:31
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javispedro	oh, QGraphicsView is nice.	01:32
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* javispedro is doing something cool.		01:32
DocScrutinizer	o,O	01:32
javispedro	see? I don't always rant about everything.	01:32
javispedro	there's stuff I like.	01:32
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	01:32
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DocScrutinizer	I particular like your comments :-D	01:33
DocScrutinizer	+ly	01:33
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javispedro	heh	01:33
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GeneralAntilles	javispedro, liar.	01:34
GeneralAntilles	It's just a wind-up.	01:34
GeneralAntilles	So you'll have our attention when you start ranting again.	01:34
* javispedro curses		01:34
DocScrutinizer	LOL	01:34
javispedro	ok, I just realized it is not caching my rendering	01:34
DocScrutinizer	RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# uptime	01:34
DocScrutinizer	00:33:51 up 1 day, 1:57, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00	01:34
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javispedro	so here comes the rant =)	01:34
GeneralAntilles	See?!	01:35
DocScrutinizer	dunno if I like the 0s there :-P	01:35
GeneralAntilles	OK, describe Qt Quick Components in one sentence.	01:36
GeneralAntilles	"Native widget set for QML"?	01:36
DocScrutinizer	this week's hype	01:36
javispedro	"no-one-knows-what-it-does multifaceted monster"	01:36
GeneralAntilles	"Qt Quick Components are ready-to-use UI elements for QML that fit well into the native User Experience." says Nokia	01:37
javispedro	are those harmattan's?	01:37
DocScrutinizer	next week we get a new toy to play with	01:37
DocScrutinizer	mhm	01:37
GeneralAntilles	http://developer.qt.nokia.com/wiki/Qt_Quick_Components	01:37
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, played with QML at all?	01:38
GeneralAntilles	It's pretty fantastic for UI prototyping.	01:38
DocScrutinizer	does that mean the datepicker is a sane calendar-like widget then?	01:38
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: I don't even know how to spell it	01:38
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DocScrutinizer	and I always thought Qt designer was the best I've ever seen for UI rapid prototyping	01:39
DocScrutinizer	admittedly I haven't touched it since maybe 5 years	01:40
GeneralAntilles	The underlying code is easy to approach for people with graphics backgrounds.	01:40
javispedro	http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/07/06/ready-made-ui-building-blocks-at-your-service-qt-quick-components-for-symbian-and-meego-1-2-harmattan/	01:40
GeneralAntilles	QML would've been a big boon for application development on Harmattan.	01:40
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, yeah, that's the story I'm summarizing.	01:41
DocScrutinizer	meh	01:41
javispedro	ah, mwkn.	01:41
DocScrutinizer	unless you tell me it doesn't come with slotmachine for datepicker, I'm only mildly interested (to be polite)	01:42
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javispedro	"A set of native-looking QML 'widgets' for both Symbian and Harmattan"	01:42
DocScrutinizer	WTF native-looking?	01:43
DocScrutinizer	native like what?	01:43
DocScrutinizer	iPhone?	01:43
javispedro	like the other ones in the system.	01:43
DocScrutinizer	if they look like MTF then I'm all \o/	01:44
javispedro	well, that wa the idea..	01:44
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DocScrutinizer	BWAAH, this c-ts is so :-x	01:47
ieatlint	well, the swipe interface is qml	01:47
ieatlint	mtf is in there, but the components are used for much of the gui	01:47
DocScrutinizer	definitely doesn't like to get touched by somebody not "connected" to the device	01:47
DocScrutinizer	I wonder if it would work at all with all sorts of c-ts saussage stylii	01:48
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DocScrutinizer	it's absolutely reproducible: place my wrist on the table and doubletap: 1 out of 3..8 success to unlock. BUT touch the case with a finger of my other hand, then do same doubletap: 100% success	01:51
DocScrutinizer	and unlocking is just one part. Scrolling in any menu longer than the screen doesn't behave at all, unless I touch the device with my other hand	01:53
DocScrutinizer	I gather it picks up interference from nearby laptop LCD and charger SPSUs - or rather I pick up those interferences	01:53
DocScrutinizer	funny detail: fast tapping on both screen frame long sides in sequence gets detected as swipe	01:55
javispedro	ieatlint: ??	01:55
javispedro	ieatlint: I'd say it's the opposite, which apps are qml in the base image?	01:55
* DocScrutinizer yawns		01:55
DocScrutinizer	another funny detail regarding 950 bme: they don't keep it charging all the time while screen is unlocked	01:58
DocScrutinizer	good!!	01:58
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DocScrutinizer	wow, another update of sdk-connectivity tool, again 78k. Darn I didn't memorize the revision of yesterday's update, this time it's 0.4.4+0m6 (so now I can look chanlog tomorrow ;-P)	02:00
DocScrutinizer	HAH download failed	02:01
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DocScrutinizer	meh	02:01
* DocScrutinizer <- idiot		02:02
DocScrutinizer	I flashed since yesterday	02:02
nid0	doh	02:02
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DocScrutinizer	5th try and "All updates installed" \o/	02:04
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, I think the thick glass interferes with the sensitivity.	02:12
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, I was discussing this with my boss today.	02:13
GeneralAntilles	That Apple will market whatever bullshit benefits them at the cost of consumers and the market.	02:13
GeneralAntilles	Capacitive	02:13
GeneralAntilles	200 billion apps is the only viable way to have a platform	02:13
GeneralAntilles	No hardware buttons is desirable.	02:13
GeneralAntilles	etc etc	02:13
DocScrutinizer	it works like a charm mostly when I hold the device with other hand, if only with two fingers	02:13
SpeedEvil	I wonder how the all-plastic case will affect the n9	02:14
DocScrutinizer	indeed	02:14
nid0	DocScrutinizer, random question, does it work as well if your other hand is grounded to something?	02:14
DocScrutinizer	on that issue it will have some impact	02:14
nid0	instead of holding the device	02:14
DocScrutinizer	good question - lemme try	02:14
DocScrutinizer	I killed or detuned it, now it always has poor sensitivity	02:16
nid0	:\	02:17
GAN900	How's the curved glass?	02:17
SpeedEvil	'but no user would do that'!	02:17
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DocScrutinizer	in fact I can't get it to activate	02:17
nid0	GAN900, presumably not curved on the n950?	02:17
GAN900	nid0, no, I think the latest devices match the N9 there.	02:18
DocScrutinizer	aah I was too fast	02:18
DocScrutinizer	this thing needs >100ms between taps	02:18
javispedro	just watch until the c-ts decides to electrocute you	02:19
javispedro	oh, I just had an idea.	02:19
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javispedro	can we bribe the WHO so that it declares c-ts to be cancerigenous?	02:20
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: nah, seems random grounding doesn't help	02:20
GAN900	javispedro, nah, they're good for some things.	02:20
GAN900	But damn sure it's not phones.	02:21
javispedro	but there might not need to even bribe anybody. I don't think anyone has conclusively proven c-ts does not cause cancer.	02:21
* javispedro quickly goes to write a few papers		02:21
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GeneralAntilles	When science becomes faith, bad things happen.	02:24
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MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, citation needed ~GLaDOS	02:27
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GeneralAntilles	One of the nice things about having to wade through all of this idiocy every week for mwkn is that you really pick up a better understanding of things you wouldn't normally care the least about.	02:28
GeneralAntilles	For instance, N9/N950 subforums on talk.maemo.org.	02:29
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SpeedEvil	Psuedo-random question.	02:32
SpeedEvil	Does anyone happen to know if hte headswt that comes with teh n900 had a 2 year warranty?	02:32
SpeedEvil	s/w/e/	02:32
infobot	SpeedEvil meant: Does anyone happen to knoe if hte headswt that comes with teh n900 had a 2 year warranty?	02:32
SpeedEvil	meh	02:32
nid0	in the uk at least, yeah	02:33
SpeedEvil	Oooh.	02:33
nid0	in theory the nokia warranty states 12 months, but that's basically bullshit	02:35
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DocScrutinizer	in EU there's something that's unrelated to "warranty", in German it's called "Gewaehrleistung", and it says your dealer has to ensure you can use the product for two years, free of any defects	02:38
DocScrutinizer	it's not linked to the manufacturer but to the dealer, and it's not granted by anybody but rather it's madatory by law	02:38
nid0	yeah in the uk the actual dealer only has responsibility for a year, and only automatically for 6 months, but the manufacture of any electrical/electronic item has to warranty it for a minimum of 2 years, and up to 6 years as reasonably determined to be "fit for purpose"	02:39
DocScrutinizer	yeah, the 6 months a a magic timeline. Also here you may have to prove the defect was caused by manufacturer and immanent in the product from beginning. In the first 6 months the dealer (or manufacturer) has to prove it wasn't	02:42
nid0	yep, that's the same boundary at 6 months here	02:42
DocScrutinizer	the duty to prove moves from dealer to customer after 6 months	02:43
* SpeedEvil ponders bothering, versus buying some on ebay.		02:46
nid0	i'd just send you mine if I had any idea whatsoever where they are	02:47
DocScrutinizer	this crappy headset isn't even worth the walk to your dealer, or the stamp for the letter	02:47
SpeedEvil	Well...	02:47
SpeedEvil	I find it useful.	02:47
SpeedEvil	The noise isolation is good enough for me to dispense with ear protection when using powertools.	02:47
DocScrutinizer	I find it less useful than similar 5€ headsets I bought in random IMEX-shops	02:48
SpeedEvil	And the sound reproduction is adequate.	02:48
DocScrutinizer	th cable is abysmal, way too hard and this way introducing body noise to the earplugs	02:49
SpeedEvil	That aspect doesn't really bother me.	02:49
SpeedEvil	Most of the content I listen to is timeshifted speech radio	02:49
DocScrutinizer	just tested it - unbearale	02:50
DocScrutinizer	unbearable*	02:50
DocScrutinizer	the cable even seems to generate noise on its own	02:51
DocScrutinizer	even without hitting against any other part	02:51
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DocScrutinizer	mechanically	02:51
SpeedEvil	I tend to wear it under the top layer of clothing, so it can't flap or move much	02:51
DocScrutinizer	the problem zone are the last 10cm to the ear plugs	02:52
DocScrutinizer	I'd probably kill for a really good BT/USB-alternative stereo headset	02:55
DocScrutinizer	with a BT sender dongle with a 2.5mm and a 3.5mm end, for devices that don't support either og BT or USB-soundcards	02:57
merlin1991	SpeedEvil: I read your last line out of context, made me go "wtf?"	02:57
SpeedEvil	:)	02:58
SpeedEvil	I'd like a nice one of those too.	02:58
DocScrutinizer	but please with multiple concurrent BT pairings, concurrently active	02:59
DocScrutinizer	accept calls by turning down from parking position the mic lever, and a decent set of easy to operate multimedia buttons	03:01
SpeedEvil	http://www.theyworkforyou.com/peer/countess_of_mar	03:03
SpeedEvil	oops	03:03
SpeedEvil	Concurrant pairings is as I understand it hard	03:03
SpeedEvil	you tend to need two radios, or at least clever firmware	03:03
DocScrutinizer	and of course the whole thing detects if you wear it or just have it dangling from your neck, and accordingly reconfigures rsp disassociates from the source device(s)	03:04
SpeedEvil	And clever firmware means firmware that is developed by you - currently the CSR stacks that are common - for example - have a binary blob of bluetooth code, and your own code runs in a little VM	03:04
* RzR950 http://rzr.online.fr/q/handset# : built and shared : rsync, tmux, git and other cli tools for #n950 #nokia #maemo #meego #harmattan #handset		03:04
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* DocScrutinizer ponders what was that - spam?		03:06
javispedro	most "dedicated" spam ever.	03:07
DocScrutinizer	indeed, but I'm still puzled	03:07
javispedro	I mean, the 10 people with n950s are probably the only ones interested on that =)	03:07
javispedro	you should feel honored or sth.	03:07
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DocScrutinizer	Duh, "he" i sgone	03:08
DocScrutinizer	[2011-07-11 02:05:58] [Whois] RzR950 ist ~RzR@rzr.ww7.be (Who Cares ? You, Mr KGB ?)	03:08
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DocScrutinizer	err, or not?	03:09
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DocScrutinizer	RzR950: bother to elaborate on that?	03:10
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DocScrutinizer	~seen RzR950	03:10
infobot	rzr950 is currently on #maemo (2m 21s) #meego (2m 21s), last said: 'Caco3: congratz you built some deb !'.	03:10
DocScrutinizer	that site indeed is o.O	03:13
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DocScrutinizer	>>test my packages : http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr/ <<	03:14
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DocScrutinizer	RzR950: hint hint: devel-su is shorter than ssh root@localhost	03:16
RzR950	so you did rtfm :)	03:17
ieatlint	bah, the manual is for elitists and literates	03:18
javispedro	ok, qgraphicsitem is utterly fantastic. I am throwing a shitload of strokes to it and it's quite performing.	03:18
* ieatlint is on a plane		03:18
ieatlint	this is weird	03:18
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DocScrutinizer	aegis-exec /usr/bin/connect-proxy	03:21
javispedro	NOOOOOOOOooooooo	03:21
* DocScrutinizer giggles evilly		03:21
javispedro	=)	03:21
RzR950	DocScrutinizer: doesnt this screw the system ?	03:22
DocScrutinizer	well, I quoted from the page you liked up there	03:23
RzR950	well a logout would be prefered let me fix it	03:23
DocScrutinizer	seems aegis-exec is another word for "trigger selfdestruct"	03:23
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RzR950	DocScrutinizer: well it did not	03:24
DocScrutinizer	wanna know what did, nevertheless? I may share the secret incantation	03:25
javispedro	yes!	03:26
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DocScrutinizer	look there: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94	03:27
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RzR950	OMG	03:28
DocScrutinizer	I still fail to see what aegis-exec is meant for, basically	03:28
DocScrutinizer	is it a replacement for shell's exec command?	03:29
RzR950	i used it to run my stuff as root	03:29
RzR950	but it is not needed	03:29
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RzR950	DocScrutinizer: thx for the link	03:30
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DocScrutinizer	\o/ ovi.com is dead for me :-/	03:31
DocScrutinizer	Bad Request	03:31
DocScrutinizer	Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.	03:31
DocScrutinizer	Reference #7.8c5e6cc1.1310344256.0	03:31
RzR950	https://www.meego.gitorious.org/meego-platform-security/librestok/blobs/483c56d4fc875c17e3af8bbe442f04ac008bf88a/aegis-exec.c	03:32
DocScrutinizer	and the URL definitely is the WTF of the weekend:	03:32
DocScrutinizer	https://account.nokia.com/fed/idp/samlv20?SAMLRequest=7b0HYBxJliUmL23Ke39K9UrX4HShCIBgEyTYkEAQ7MGIzeaS7B1pRyMpqyqBymVWZV1mFkDM7Z28995777333nvvvfe6O51OJ/ff/z9cZmQBbPbOStrJniGAqsgfP358Hz8iHjfZolw9Ol638+Wr/Bet86ZN3y3KZfOIv/jso3W9fFRlTdE8WmaLvHnUTh+9Pv7i+aO98c6jVV211bQqP/Je2fxG1jR53RbV8qP0pb78pFjOiuXF5vcm0qh59O03b15uHxOI82zafpQeG3gn1bJZL/L6dV5fFtP8q1fPP/	03:32
DocScrutinizer	to3rarR3fvNvOszsfVZTGeVou7hPN5UebjrFm9+z3W9DY6++ynq7y+eLiz83ugx6xuPzs+frX8faqvPv3d95791OQ7z85/+tXLe9Pp29Pj7yze/V7z14t3B9l3Z/uv35ze++5Pf+f3/uLZk7c/UT776qvli5/+4u0Xv/u9p+8B6MV3f5/r7Omzly9++idfvvm9n/zeefliOdv76t3r07P3A/RTO/PfK3/6k9+Zlj/5ZPLmO7sv3s5ezPbm9/Jn1fsB+smffPJs+vY7L3/qB7P7L5bH97Jvf7X7+3x3/tNfffvi/QBlX812sq9+6quf+u6r8stvz+tXn6/KyU8/+er1V9P3A/TVD148+Wpn9eL32X1RvNi7vyQafXv2k0+aV999T4y++OnZMitfLH7ip599Od0p5z+5d//tT77d38s+f0+MfrJ88SL/vV/	03:32
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DocScrutinizer	3e5Yvs2bPi9eer32v60xjaR+nZ088+aq9n9ec/8eb8zeevvrv/1UX+UfqTed2Qh/HZR+SIUJumWedny6bNli19tLO7u73zYHt3983OzqN7O4/u3x8/2N/9qY+O2LF6xK3ro5gn8viu30L9sBfkjJw9fVmVxfQ6PS7L6uqkzrM2J7zqNeHyrKoXWTvsK+2Od/mTYrZ9zk0f5YusKI9nszpvmo/uHkmvocN39P8A&SigAlg=http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#rsa-sha1&Signature=UZuVbv3xvHSvCgZF11S+DQuHPMTvVPEylTGfC2FesZgqI594gJk41eCrxEjj+FiA5ytxcz8xRIe5+bgAgHILNXlnpwozv2TR+t8t4gTmhFKxUIIjKncJcf8z0qsnwx6bB2/2GM/	03:32
DocScrutinizer	myoifOp+BhsjhyKX6DTmbjSad5sWOwKdtx7o=&isPassive=1&serviceId=Ovishare&returnURL=http://share.ovi.com/profile.aspx?username=joerg900?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8aWd4STE3WjJXMFBkQlFUUnNjMkM%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8NWYyaDFPNjVPTXBXelNnd2UxSEI%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8Z0hKeDVJclVBbTJ1NkdNd2h3eFo%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8VVBFckJPZzd5NnA3aHU1YWhjUHg%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%	03:32
DocScrutinizer	2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8aUd0aUZUZWRlOHhrRGplbjBUSUc%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8UzNBU0pNY1NiN25nelNHdVBsRWg%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8MjdnalNmQjFOc0lhV25kVk42aGc%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8VlNNeXRjSHhXNkNQV2hqNnBCY3k%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8d1ZuRnJJbGVDVEN2NklYWDJadU0%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8NkJONWtHbVNnY1hjOG8yTzRxblA%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%	03:32
DocScrutinizer	2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8OWlHVTVTZDhmVG5iYzhvbHU0eUE%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8T3NWejNXUnhseHZDUTBXZWtWd2g%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8VDRaSlkzTmxSN2JNUGcxY2dtVHA%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8OW8wWW5NNW5TUDk4Zm1McjNWbXk%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8YVZVQ1BaUFNVQjBHdWhZVDhoQ2o%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8SzJ6amdMRXo1QU5Rc3Fkbk96RHM%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%	03:32
javispedro	nananah.	03:32
DocScrutinizer	2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8NWtnU0xJdGZYdklBVFlGT1ZHMFU%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8Z1M5ZlRMd0M3cnpMM3dKNjdBcDk%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8Rll5aEgwYjlJeGFlM2VUYVhuNnE%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8VGd4NU45VklCRjJpRjBRTENUWTA%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8bWJmaVBycFpmdUxWUnhjalBMcDE%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8TUpjT2ZOZHNCRzI5MW1IVGNaV2s%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%	03:32
DocScrutinizer	2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8Y0pRamJ2ajJqUjVuUGs0eWN1cTc%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8Tk9VZkJIdjhtM2toUlNBVE1qN3E%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8Z2ZIZjV5cEFid3VYUEJ2aHNyazk%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8b2JFeHJKTTZna0NQNW12eWNYOXg%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8SktkV3FoS203YnphTXVwdmVCdFE%3D?SAMLart=AARnYoU6%2FZbJFfjRP3cckEAJmxKhSmx8UVlOdkhvS2ExUXlNaF	03:33
DocScrutinizer	waaaah, sorry	03:33
APTX	wtf	03:33
DocScrutinizer	didn't realize it's SOOOOOO long	03:33
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javispedro	Kick yourself!	03:35
javispedro	well done.	03:35
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DocScrutinizer	duh	03:36
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infobot	DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!	03:53
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DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	03:58
infobot	DocScrutinizer: :)	03:58
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DocScrutinizer	sorry again for the spamming	04:03
* javispedro lols		04:03
javispedro	"Stop current playback. Note that if the backend is PulseAudio, due to the limitation of the underlying API, tis stop will only prevent next looping but will not be able to stop current playback immediately."	04:03
ieatlint	i will consider your apology and will inform you of whether i offer forgiveness at a future date	04:04
DocScrutinizer	but that's actually what ovi.com/account.nokia.com tried to use with my browser accessing share.ovi.com	04:04
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yeah, PA is so much better than ALSA	04:05
DocScrutinizer	;-P	04:05
ieatlint	the loop shouldn't be that big	04:06
javispedro	I guess they are using canberra instead of PA	04:06
javispedro	canberra is designed for UI sound effects, no wonder they cannot be stopped.	04:06
ieatlint	i would guess less than a second before the loop returns	04:06
javispedro	PA couldn't care less about stopping, just stop sending data to buffer.	04:06
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DocScrutinizer	we all know PA happily plays back /dev/NULL infinitely,	04:07
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DocScrutinizer	adding autogenerated zeroes to zeroes for mixing	04:08
javispedro	btw, have you seen this: https://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Tone_and_Language.html	04:08
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javispedro	it probably explains why someone considered "Application $APP sucks. Close it?"	04:09
* javispedro ponders what the Spanish localizer will do.		04:11
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I kinda like the Tone and Language section.	04:16
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MohammadAG	Workdays should start at 3 AM	04:26
MohammadAG	at least till N950s are shipped :p	04:26
DocScrutinizer	hah	04:26
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ieatlint	MohammadAG: come now, many of them have shipped	04:32
ieatlint	nokia just hates you, so they're making you wait	04:32
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, and end at 11	04:33
* javispedro expects to see "Device thrown into Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator Hole" in DHL tracking page at any time now		04:33
GeneralAntilles	We decided Elop had Quim killed with the Nokia ninja's	04:33
GeneralAntilles	and it's all just a hoax	04:33
ieatlint	pff, nokia doesn't have ninjas	04:34
ieatlint	elop probably just used the microsoft waones	04:34
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: considering the latest post on his blog, he has been already brainwashed by Elop, so I guess they are not killing him. For now.	04:34
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javispedro	funny post btw. depending on how you read it, you might get that future nokia devices will be "not Linux but webkit+Qt", or "not Meego but Webkit and Qt and Linux", or ...	04:39
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, tomorrow we're going to celebrate "Everybody but DocScrutinizer, Jaffa, and X-Fade hates javispedro Day".	04:39
GeneralAntilles	Consider it a good omen.	04:39
javispedro	here's to hoping carrier arrives in the smallish time frame I will be at home.	04:40
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Termana	Good morning	04:41
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, hire a neighbor to sign for it?	04:42
javispedro	DHL refuses to ring neighbors, at least here.	04:42
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GeneralAntilles	That sucks.	04:43
GeneralAntilles	Hire a friend to hang out at the house for the day?	04:43
javispedro	heh	04:43
javispedro	They usually ring me early afternoon, and ask me for a "better" time.	04:44
GeneralAntilles	How much stuff gets shipped DHL over there?	04:44
* SpeedEvil got a grid-tie inverter sent through DHL.		04:45
SpeedEvil	I need to ring them as tehy've managed to screw up the duty.	04:45
javispedro	Amazon used to, but last shipment they used UPS.	04:45
GeneralAntilles	Interesting	04:45
GeneralAntilles	I see a DHL truck on the road about once a month.	04:45
GeneralAntilles	Only shipments I've ever gotten from them have been from Nokia.	04:46
SpeedEvil	In addition to the 10 quid processing fee, they've managed to charge me 20 quid duty on a 35 quid item - delivered.	04:46
SpeedEvil	Ebay shipping can be a bit random.	04:46
SpeedEvil	vis the guy that thought a layer of cardboard, two layers of (small bubble) bubble-wrap, and 'fragile' tape was OK to ship a 1800mm*54mm glass tube.	04:47
GeneralAntilles	Nice	04:47
GeneralAntilles	My friend ordered one of those high-flow rate showerheads the busybodies outlawed years ago.	04:48
DocScrutinizer	what's a grid-tie inverter?	04:48
GeneralAntilles	eBay seller put a half-dozen Jolly Rangers in the box and a handwritten note wishing him well.	04:48
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, home solar, I'd assume.	04:48
SpeedEvil	It is a device which converts 18-24V to 240VAC	04:49
DocScrutinizer	aah	04:49
SpeedEvil	For solar	04:49
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: lol	04:49
SpeedEvil	A small solar panel makes sense for me - ~300-600Wp./	04:49
SpeedEvil	If I DIY it, I can get it to come in at under a dollar a watt for the complete system.	04:49
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, what's the life on the solar panels these days?	04:50
SpeedEvil	Which at ~15p/unit of electricity pays off fairly soon.	04:50
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: 25 years is likely.	04:50
SpeedEvil	Though I question that the ones I'm hacking up will do more than 10.	04:50
SpeedEvil	But they pay off in 2 years for the ones I'm making.	04:51
SpeedEvil	They'd pay off in 6 months or so if I could get the magic paperwork certifying that they were made by magic monkeys, and installed by magic monkeys.	04:51
* GeneralAntilles teehees at silly government interference.		04:52
SpeedEvil	Indeed. All I'd really want would be for it to be legal for me to 'net meter' - that is to simply run the meter backwards.	04:53
GeneralAntilles	You know interior designers have to be licensed in the state of Florida?	04:53
SpeedEvil	If that was the case, I'd be putting in 5Kwp of panels.	04:53
SpeedEvil	DIY of course.	04:53
javispedro	!	04:55
MohammadAG	I need to take another mobile on me, N900 or N86?	04:55
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, you should go to more garden parties.	04:55
GeneralAntilles	Meet some officials.	04:55
GeneralAntilles	Then you can get a waiver.	04:55
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: I'd be too tempted to stab them in the face with cutlery.	04:56
SpeedEvil	It's all for 'the solar industry' - who have engineered subsidies to be put in place.	04:56
GeneralAntilles	A large part of why I try to avoid paying too much attention to the local news.	04:57
SpeedEvil	For the largely pointless industry of putting solar panels on roofs.	04:57
GeneralAntilles	Somebody should write a book: "Using the Government to Put My Competitors Out of Business"	04:57
SpeedEvil	When this is perhaps 2-3 times more expensive than putting them in sensible (megawatt) sized clusters in fields.	04:57
SpeedEvil	Or indeed, making easy plug-in-DIY panels.	04:57
GeneralAntilles	"Legislation to Make Your Business Plan Viable"	04:58
SpeedEvil	It's not especially hard to make a panel you can stick on a solid support in a part of the garden with sun.	04:58
SpeedEvil	Yup.	04:58
SpeedEvil	And you haven't even heard the best part yet!	04:58
SpeedEvil	It's revenue neutral - costing the government nothing!	04:59
SpeedEvil	It just costs the domestic electricity users.	04:59
SpeedEvil	So government doesn't really care about the details, as it's not their money that's being spent.	04:59
SpeedEvil	As much as they ever care of course.	04:59
GeneralAntilles	Yet people want to centralize more power there.	05:00
SpeedEvil	:/	05:00
javispedro	seemingly my undergrad thesis was just awarded cum laude =)	05:02
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MohammadAG	as much as I want an N950	05:02
MohammadAG	* javispedro expects to see "Device thrown into Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator Hole" in DHL tracking page at any time now	05:02
MohammadAG	that would be awesome	05:02
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Is that good? :)	05:02
SpeedEvil	javispedro: What was your topic?	05:02
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, sure isn't bad.	05:02
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, enjoy it while you can, in the morning: Hate.	05:03
javispedro	SpeedEvil: building an online system for the formal verification of hdl	05:03
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Ah - bug gree software.	05:03
SpeedEvil	s/g/f/	05:03
infobot	SpeedEvil meant: javispedro: Ah - buf gree software.	05:03
javispedro	heh	05:03
SpeedEvil	:)	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Buf Gree Software, Inc.	05:04
SpeedEvil	Bugs in software proved to be bug free are the best sort of bugs!	05:04
GeneralAntilles	Sounds like a used car salesman.	05:04
javispedro	on spain cum laude is max grade (unlike other grading systems where there's magna, etc. aiui)	05:05
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, how's customs down there?	05:05
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, really? Wow.	05:05
SpeedEvil	You just bounce the bugs a layer down, to the specifications.	05:05
javispedro	SpeedEvil: "We do not do that" ;)	05:05
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Many congratulations then!	05:05
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, you'll probably see it in Portal 3	05:05
javispedro	there's even money involved =)	05:05
javispedro	1250eur =)	05:06
javispedro	less than the google summer of code, which was easier =)	05:06
SpeedEvil	Will more people use the GSOC though?	05:06
javispedro	that's a long story..	05:07
SpeedEvil	Hmm - vkbds	05:08
SpeedEvil	Of course - now that GTK is evil...	05:08
SpeedEvil	:/	05:08
javispedro	and I need to pay 40€ to claim the money prize? /me sighs	05:09
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javispedro	SpeedEvil: also, I do not know what the state of gtk on meego is. IIRC, csaavedra was doing that under gnome foundation money	05:10
SpeedEvil	I thought it was all Qt/weyland in the future.	05:11
SpeedEvil	wayland?	05:11
javispedro	wayland	05:11
GeneralAntilles	Waylaid	05:12
* SpeedEvil learns that the simpsons char is not called Wayland.		05:13
SpeedEvil	I'd always thought he was.	05:13
javispedro	either way, about Maemo on Meego, I think this will all speed up once devices are given out	05:13
SpeedEvil	Indeed.	05:13
javispedro	but I was surprised to see noone put any gtk app on their DDP projects list.	05:13
javispedro	maybe they all have since realized it is not as easy as it sounds..	05:14
SpeedEvil	javispedro: For DDP, it's pretty much a killer, I'd think.	05:14
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Platform apps - like mine - were heavily deprecated.	05:14
SpeedEvil	Indeed - much of the stuff I proposed was even against the terms of the NDA.	05:14
SpeedEvil	As I understand it.	05:14
SpeedEvil	It was very much an 'apps, apps, apps' type of process, with a few people leaking round the edges.	05:15
javispedro	have to say that I would have given you a device -- at the final batchs there's people with way less of a resume that have been approved.	05:15
SpeedEvil	I haven't been active at all in the meego side.	05:16
SpeedEvil	And to be fair - I have absolutely no hope of coding a Qt app as my skills are at the moment. I'd have to learn.	05:16
SpeedEvil	I have touched GTK in the past, but it was trivial modifications - adding a few buttons - to an existing interface.	05:16
javispedro	(note: by resume I mean maemo contribution history :) )	05:17
SpeedEvil	I can only hope there are further rounds.	05:17
SpeedEvil	I want to get some apps out. I suspect I've instigated a few apps, but that's even harder to track. :)	05:17
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, I suspect Quim may not have recognized your name.	05:18
SpeedEvil	Possibly.	05:18
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, QML	05:19
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, he's not on IRC, so.	05:19
SpeedEvil	And yes - I know QML.	05:19
GeneralAntilles	Unfortunately I didn't think to prod him about it. :\	05:19
SpeedEvil	I needed to write up what I'd done anyway.	05:19
SpeedEvil	Making it hard to motivate myself towards platform documentation, for obvious reasons. :/	05:20
javispedro	SpeedEvil: did qgil send you an email with the reasons, btw?	05:20
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, it's never too late, he can handle outside cases afaik	05:20
MohammadAG	http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/ <-- also, where tf are the new images	05:21
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SpeedEvil	I got a generic rejection letter, then I basically got 'out of scope, and history of developing apps was not there' or similar.	05:21
SpeedEvil	When I pinged about if my updated application had been looked at if that was possible.	05:21
javispedro	btw, some other thing I ponder now is whether meego.com Launchpaders will be also be the sent the promised free WP7 dev phone?	05:23
javispedro	s/be also be the sent/also be sent/	05:23
infobot	javispedro meant: btw, some other thing I ponder now is whether meego.com Launchpaders will also be sent the promised free WP7 dev phone?	05:23
SpeedEvil	Interesting question.	05:23
SpeedEvil	'thank you for my wp7 phone, I put meego on it kthxby'	05:24
SpeedEvil	I suspect a lot of people will be trying that.	05:24
javispedro	or viceversa =)	05:24
SpeedEvil	:)	05:24
ieatlint	you probably will get the free phone	05:24
SpeedEvil	Triple-boot wp7 meego/maemo	05:24
SpeedEvil	At this point harmattan-on-n900 would be a great leap forward.	05:25
javispedro	you will have the option to exchange the n950 for the wp7 device	05:25
SpeedEvil	(in terms of a dev pool)	05:26
javispedro	in a few months, after Elop has had the chance to fiddle with the harmattan updates development process.	05:26
javispedro	and everyone's n950 has been either bricked or turned into an useless aegis-enabled zombie.	05:26
DocScrutinizer	HEH	05:26
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SpeedEvil	Though I guess anyone that could officially code it is not actually at nokia anymore.	05:27
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SpeedEvil	It'd be interesting to see what the meego/harmattan/kernel/... people graphs look like over time.	05:28
GeneralAntilles	I was thinking about some ad videos for the N9.	05:28
javispedro	I keep hearing that	05:28
javispedro	so, how many meegoers have been fired from nokia?	05:28
javispedro	1000?	05:28
GeneralAntilles	It'd be funny to do some side-by-sides of the N9-WP7 and the N9-Harmattan doing various tasks.	05:28
DocScrutinizer	PM on tmo:	05:28
GeneralAntilles	With the first failing miserably.	05:28
DocScrutinizer	someone said that there is a newer version of pulse audio, its pulse audio 43.	05:28
DocScrutinizer	so is it ok to update to that ? is it official ?	05:28
DocScrutinizer	and how can i know my current pulse audio version ?	05:28
DocScrutinizer	to ME!! LOL!	05:28
javispedro	LMAO!!!!!!	05:28
javispedro	ROFL.	05:28
MohammadAG	you got that too?	05:29
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DocScrutinizer	YOU TOO?	05:29
MohammadAG	sec	05:30
MohammadAG	can you take a look at THIS ?	05:30
MohammadAG	if you can't read arabic this means that there is a newer version of pulse audio, its pulse audio 43.	05:30
MohammadAG	so is it ok to update to that ? is it official ?	05:30
MohammadAG	and how can i know my current pulse audio version ?	05:30
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DocScrutinizer	MUHAHAHA	05:30
DocScrutinizer	agogdata	05:30
DocScrutinizer	a pretty funny guy obviously	05:31
ieatlint	what is the current version of the n950 fw as reported when *#0000# is dialed?	05:31
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MohammadAG	0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5 looks like it's 43 to me	05:31
ieatlint	and does the ovi/nokia store work on it, or is it just the placehold?	05:31
MohammadAG	ieatlint, something 22-6	05:31
MohammadAG	placeholder	05:31
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: the same as the one in the name of one-click-flasher	05:31
MohammadAG	Coming soon	05:31
ieatlint	ok	05:31
ieatlint	cool, thx	05:32
javispedro	MohammadAG: answer: "Yes, it's very easy to install. You need to synchronize the activation circuitry of the plasma injectors, and when the warp coil destabilizes the strength of the plasma injectors, increase the fluctuation of the dysfunctional audio processor."	05:32
javispedro	DocScrutinizer^^	05:32
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, remember mobile4arab?	05:32
GeneralAntilles	Can you work thetans in there somewhere?	05:32
DocScrutinizer	hihihi	05:32
MohammadAG	the guys who watermarked our hostmode images	05:33
DocScrutinizer	yep	05:33
MohammadAG	the "THIS" link points to them	05:33
DocScrutinizer	OUCH	05:33
GeneralAntilles	Watermarked?	05:33
MohammadAG	stamped mobile4arab and posted them as exclusives on the next page	05:33
GeneralAntilles	Pff	05:34
GeneralAntilles	Awesome	05:34
MohammadAG	lemme test my googling skills	05:34
MohammadAG	found it	05:35
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=691712#post691712	05:35
DocScrutinizer	I feel like sitting here since ~1week	05:35
MohammadAG	and the post afterwards	05:35
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, dah fuck time is it over there?	05:36
* javispedro should go -- gnite!		05:36
MohammadAG	javispedro, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO	05:36
MohammadAG	don't leave us!	05:36
javispedro	let's try some n950-sleep	05:36
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, dah fuck time is it there?!	05:36
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, good luck tomorrow. :)	05:36
MohammadAG	you'll miss out on some pulseaudio fun	05:36
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, that's awesome.	05:36
MohammadAG	good luck? exams or something?	05:36
javispedro	yes, carrier interaction exam.	05:37
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, 5:36, need to be up at 9	05:37
MohammadAG	good luck javispedro :)	05:37
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, bed. now.	05:37
* javispedro concurs		05:37
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, naw but I don't wanna	05:37
GeneralAntilles	Well, fine then.	05:38
GeneralAntilles	But don't complain when you're sleepy tomorrow. :P	05:38
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* SpeedEvil ponders if to go to bed, or to search a couple of thousand pages of PDFs of mind-numbingly-dull psuedo-legislation.		05:38
MohammadAG	nice way of distributing pulseaudio packages, mediafire	05:38
MohammadAG	http://www.mediafire.com/?9q2vjz855lvg9t5	05:38
javispedro	is that a virus? it better be!	05:39
MohammadAG	javispedro, it's what I got through PM :P	05:39
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, bed.	05:39
MohammadAG	a rar containing like 15 PA packages	05:39
javispedro	lol	05:39
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MohammadAG	no sources, of course	05:39
SpeedEvil	:/	05:39
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javispedro	MohammadAG: tell him that package is TEH SHIT. Attach new pulseaudio version v2011 with your choice of bricking postinst.	05:40
* SpeedEvil looks at the two devices he has without source that makes him unhappy.		05:40
MohammadAG	pfft, v2012 ftw	05:40
MohammadAG	http://www.mobile4arab.com/vb/showthread.php?p=5704256#post5704256 if anyone feels like google translating the page	05:40
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: install aegis!	05:41
javispedro	oh.	05:41
javispedro	we could create a version of pulseaudio that replaces every stream with a predefined sound effect.	05:42
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DocScrutinizer	THE fart app	05:42
SpeedEvil	I want voice effects on calls.	05:42
SpeedEvil	And a soundboard.	05:42
MohammadAG	cause the N900 runs so smoothly during a call	05:42
javispedro	"Forum Maemo & MeeGo > Department of programs and applications"	05:42
javispedro	fine translation I bet.	05:43
MohammadAG	I want amplifier effects in calls	05:43
MohammadAG	lmao	05:43
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javispedro	MohammadAG: this pulseaudio is the one you built with the pr1.2/3 patches before official release I bet	05:43
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DocScrutinizer	I wonder why I know this agogdata name	05:43
MohammadAG	javispedro, brings back memories	05:44
javispedro	my stock PR1.3 pulse is already v43, so installing this random version will at most unprelink the pulse binaries, thereby slightly slowding down device startup.	05:45
DocScrutinizer	anybody an idea why I can log in to 950 via LAN, but not from outside via NAT, shows prompt for password but refuses log in - password been correct though	05:48
ieatlint	syslog say anything?	05:48
DocScrutinizer	nuttin	05:49
ieatlint	i've logged in via wifi and usb/lan	05:49
ieatlint	no issues	05:49
DocScrutinizer	my router's FW log shows the conection ends at correct IP	05:49
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DocScrutinizer	how could N950 sshd tell apart a LAN login from an externally-originated one that goes thru NAT? Wrong RDNS or sth?	05:51
SpeedEvil	Umm...	05:51
SpeedEvil	Does ssh complain in anyway?	05:51
ieatlint	every now and then the touchscreen seems to get really messed up, detecting presses in random places	05:51
DocScrutinizer	no	05:51
ieatlint	seems to happen more when usb plugged in	05:51
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: 950?	05:52
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: to recap on my earlier comment - sure it's the right device? :)	05:52
ieatlint	with harmattan	05:52
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: FW log says it's the right device, yes	05:52
SpeedEvil	hmm	05:53
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: same here	05:53
SpeedEvil	From the same source device?	05:53
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: I found it gets better when you hold the device with th other hand	05:53
SpeedEvil	allow_hosts?	05:53
DocScrutinizer	aaaah, alow-hosts	05:54
SpeedEvil	Does the headset worn on the body work as a 'ground'?	05:54
DocScrutinizer	maybe not in the local netmask	05:54
ieatlint	yeah, i don't get it... it's unusable when usb is plugged in pretty much	05:55
MohammadAG	USB networking I'd guess	05:55
DocScrutinizer	I gather that's some sort of interference	05:55
MohammadAG	try unloading g_nokia.ko	05:56
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: go to sleep	05:56
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: we're talking about touchscreen	05:56
MohammadAG	what?	05:56
ieatlint	yeah, when you plug the phone into usb (computer, not tested with wall charger), it gets very weird	05:57
DocScrutinizer	wallcharger here, same issue	05:57
MohammadAG	oh dear	05:57
javispedro	electrocution danger, will robinson!	05:57
MohammadAG	capacitive + charger parts not covered well = that	05:57
DocScrutinizer	in the settings menu I wasn't able to select a menu entry	05:57
* javispedro waits for n950 to make engadget front page news like n900 usb port problems		05:58
MohammadAG	I'm surprised, Nokia had experience with c-ts	05:58
MohammadAG	X6, N8 etc	05:58
ieatlint	c-ts?	05:58
MohammadAG	capacitive ts	05:59
ieatlint	ah	05:59
DocScrutinizer	btw seems I've seen a ref to Atmel related ts	05:59
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, can I have ssh access tomorrow?	05:59
ieatlint	well i heard they made an error on the n8	06:00
MohammadAG	illegal, if released, but I want to try and get the swipe UI on the N900	06:00
ieatlint	and that the accuracy of multitouch is extremely low	06:00
MohammadAG	MeeGoCE	06:00
MohammadAG	N8 works fine for me	06:00
DocScrutinizer	sure, if you manage to sort the >><DocScrutinizer> anybody an idea why I can log in to 950 via LAN, but not from outside via NAT, shows prompt for password but refuses log in - password been correct though<< issue	06:00
MohammadAG	reverse ssh DocScrutinizer ;)	06:00
ieatlint	yeah, the n8 works, and it's "accurate enough" for the pinch gestures	06:00
ieatlint	but that you can't do much more complicated things than that	06:01
ieatlint	if he can't, i can probably get you a login, depending on what your intentions are :P	06:02
MohammadAG	scp the swipe UI	06:02
MohammadAG	binaries, libs, etc	06:02
ieatlint	can't you just go grab the fw image?	06:02
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: would you know off top of your head where to check for alowed_hosts?	06:02
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MohammadAG	no one could mount it afaik	06:03
MohammadAG	also, how does one import contacts on MeeGoCE?	06:03
ieatlint	i thought the flasher tool had an "extract fiasco image" option?	06:03
MohammadAG	yeah, that gives you a non standard rootfs.lzo file	06:03
ieatlint	huh, i'll have to play with that and see	06:03
javispedro	ali1234 already solved that, it was just non-standard block compression	06:04
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: it's in ~/.ssh/	06:06
SpeedEvil	But I'm not sure that's the issue.	06:06
MohammadAG	javispedro, he got another image he couldn't mount afaik	06:07
DocScrutinizer	:-P	06:07
DocScrutinizer	AllowUsers @127.0.0.1 @10.0.0.0/8 @172.16.0.0/12 @192.168.0.0/16	06:07
DocScrutinizer	how bad is THAT	06:07
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javispedro	MohammadAG: I think he did, as that's how that Hurrian guy uselessly bricked his n900.	06:07
ds3	you don't trust the link address (169.169.x.x)?	06:07
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ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: that makes sense actually	06:07
DocScrutinizer	that is BS actually	06:08
DocScrutinizer	a lot of LANs are 192.168.1.x or .2.x	06:08
ieatlint	ds3: anyone who isn't able to actually run a network with ip address assignments shouldn't be developing on this phone :P	06:08
MohammadAG	javispedro, he flashed the image?	06:08
javispedro	that's captured by the 192.168.0.0/16 mask?	06:08
javispedro	MohammadAG: yes.	06:08
* MohammadAG facepalms		06:08
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: the /16 means only match the 192.168 part	06:08
MohammadAG	shouldn't you be in bed javispedro ?	06:08
DocScrutinizer	ooh I see	06:08
javispedro	yes.	06:08
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ieatlint	the list of hosts match all home address ones except the 169	06:09
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ok, you can have ssh access	06:10
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DocScrutinizer	anybody knows about the >>port 22<< parameter? is it >>port 22, 666<< or >>port 22 666<< or >>port 22\nport666<< ?	06:12
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SpeedEvil	man sshd_config - ListenAddress	06:13
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, tomorrow please, need to sleep in a bit	06:13
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: neither	06:13
ieatlint	it's multiple lines	06:14
SpeedEvil	local addresses. Multiple ListenAddress options are permitted.	06:14
MohammadAG	I'm leaving for a long trip, taking the other N900 with MeeGoCE on it	06:14
ieatlint	so you do "Port 22" and then another line with "Port 666"	06:14
DocScrutinizer	>>port 22\nport666<<	06:14
Dhraakellian	so how is MeeGoCE for daily use?	06:14
DocScrutinizer	thanks	06:14
MohammadAG	that's what I'm aiming to find out	06:14
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: correct	06:15
ieatlint	whee, turbulence	06:15
MohammadAG	SMS notifications are fun	06:15
Dhraakellian	I loaded it up on a microSD card and wasn't impressed quite enough to keep using it	06:15
Dhraakellian	but it did look greatly improved	06:15
Dhraakellian	just from a casual poking-around standpoint	06:15
MohammadAG	well, imported all my contacts	06:16
MohammadAG	nice script alterego :)	06:16
MohammadAG	and lcuk	06:16
Dhraakellian	(of course, it doesn't help that my antenna connections are rubbish)	06:16
* Dhraakellian wonders if he dares open up his n900 to see if there's an easy fix		06:16
ieatlint	just go buy a nokla n900	06:17
Dhraakellian	should probably grab a cheap GSM Android phone first, just so that I'm not without a phone	06:17
Dhraakellian	actually, I am without a phone right now, since I'm getting the simcard errors every time	06:17
Dhraakellian	ieatlint: running meamo5?	06:18
ieatlint	i don't know what they call the os	06:18
Dhraakellian	Nokla Meamo?	06:19
* Dhraakellian guesses poorly-ported Android?		06:20
MohammadAG	alterego, I tried to import contacts, it said saved 235 contacts, but phone and contacts are empty	06:21
ieatlint	MohammadAG: http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?s=34b79a78f6fcac3f5af9d55801398625&p=1043548&postcount=303 btw	06:21
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hiemanshu	Morning	06:27
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divan	Morning. Did anyone installed Meego CE to the eMMC on N900? I follow these instructions http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC but the script doesn't work for me on Ubunut 10.10.	06:30
hiemanshu	divan: what is the error?	06:31
divan	First of all, it ignores kernel command line parameter, second, it looks for file initrd-n900 (which I don't have), and as a result it cannot bring up usb0 interface. I don't mention bugs with NetworkManager detect/stop functionality.	06:32
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divan	Do I need to use Rescure Initrd to install Meego CE?	06:36
divan	s/Rescure/Rescue/	06:36
infobot	divan meant: Do I need to use Rescue Initrd to install Meego CE?	06:36
hiemanshu	divan: this is not the right channel, lets talk in #meego-arm	06:36
divan	hanspeter, yep, I've asked there.	06:37
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ieatlint	so the maemo/n900 flash utility doesn't work with meego/harmatan, right?	06:59
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DocScrutinizer	right	07:08
DocScrutinizer	that's what I think at least	07:08
ieatlint	ah, looks like there is a flasher for the n9/50 on nokia's site here http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	07:11
hiemanshu	yeah	07:11
hiemanshu	and any idea where the images are?	07:12
ieatlint	i think there's just the one public image dated 22-6	07:12
ieatlint	(which btw is a date, it should be week number - day of week)	07:13
ieatlint	(counted 1-7)	07:13
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krayon	DocScrutinizer: Did you end up getting an N950?	08:41
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pavi	DocScrutinizer, I tried the cable with my netbook running sid , it works :D .	09:01
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divan	DocScrutinizer, talking about fiasco image, should I create it by myself? I see different tutorials in the net, not sure what to choose.	09:22
divan	Any good how-to on this topic?	09:22
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Sicelo	nice pavi :)	09:55
pavi	Sicelo, I am thinking that my desktop which has Linux Mint Debian edition has some broken USB drivers .	09:56
pavi	I kind of removed mint repo and upgraded stuff on it . it had some package conflits	09:56
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Sicelo	question: if i install h-e-n package, do i still need to get anything else to make it work? (reason for asking is because i don't have the cable for it atm, so i can't test.. but will have use for it soon as i have cable with me)	10:40
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hiemanshu	Status is still New Order :(	10:52
hiemanshu	looks like they are shipping today though	10:53
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RST38h	moo ladies and gentlemen	10:56
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RST38h	hiemanshu: what is the URL to check?	10:57
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hiemanshu	RST38h: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductOrders it should change from new orders to something different	10:58
hiemanshu	and you will have an email too	10:58
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RST38h	hiemanshu: thanks!	11:03
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:29
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rzr	hi	11:36
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khertan	Morning	11:46
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khertan	Your order has been sent	11:46
khertan	:)	11:46
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Hurrian	ah, how i love the 5 second boot time	11:54
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tackat	we have a Qt Components Version of Marble now in the works: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdeedu/marble/repository/show?rev=gsoc-2011-qtcomponents	12:10
Hurrian	hmm, i was playing with a friend's Nokia 8800 Arte	12:11
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Hurrian	it shows you a clock if you double-tap the screen when locked	12:12
hiemanshu	khertan: what was your order number?	12:13
khertan	hiemanshu, i didn't got an tracking number yet	12:15
hiemanshu	khertan: the order number, the OID- something number	12:15
hiemanshu	khertan: tell me the last 3 digits please :)	12:15
khertan	ah this is one :)	12:15
khertan	52751	12:15
hiemanshu	:( I am 887	12:16
hiemanshu	more than a 100 away :( :( :(	12:16
khertan	;)	12:16
khertan	hiemanshu, i think there are packaging all device ... and sent seems to be a 5 oclock fi time	12:17
khertan	so there is time to package some more device	12:17
khertan	:)	12:17
hiemanshu	khertan: well yeah, but I am hoping mine goes through today	12:17
hiemanshu	or I will shoot myself waiting :(	12:17
khertan	:)	12:17
cpscotti	hiemanshu, khertan 775 here..	12:18
hiemanshu	cpscotti: sent?	12:18
khertan	:)	12:18
cpscotti	no..	12:19
cpscotti	no tracking number too	12:19
hiemanshu	k	12:19
hiemanshu	well you should get an email telling sent	12:19
cpscotti	well.. but we have a whole week coming..	12:19
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hiemanshu	and how hard is it to pack say 1000 phones a day, shouldn't take more than 3-5 mins to pack one :/	12:19
cpscotti	so.. now.. changing subjects.. chaps.. I got a problem.. My notebook is dying (like.. for real).. Any recommendations? Is a thinkpad that good?	12:20
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hiemanshu	yeah TP is the way to go for linux	12:20
cpscotti	hiemanshu, that's what I was expecting.. just wanted to b sure :D	12:21
hiemanshu	heh yeah	12:21
cpscotti	the shit is.. they take 2 weeks to ship that.. the bastards	12:21
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lardman	morning	12:37
lardman	any dhl news?	12:38
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hiemanshu	lardman: yours was sent?	12:40
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: more reports of it being shipped or people getting it	12:41
hiemanshu	cpscotti: I suddenly have the need to die :/	12:42
hiemanshu	cpscotti: and some with 92x got the sent email :/	12:42
hiemanshu	s/some/someone/	12:43
infobot	hiemanshu meant: cpscotti: and someone with 92x got the sent email :/	12:43
cpscotti	wooa	12:43
cpscotti	I didn't get the "sent" e-mail	12:43
cpscotti	not yet	12:43
cpscotti	775 here..	12:43
hiemanshu	well lets wait	12:43
hiemanshu	yeah, I hope they send it today, or somebody is gonna get a hurt real bad	12:43
cpscotti	yeah	12:43
lardman	hiemanshu: I've not received a package nor a dhl email, so I guess not	12:44
cpscotti	I'm waiting patiently.. I think...	12:44
hiemanshu	lardman: did you get the 'Your order has been sent' email ?	12:44
cpscotti	hiemanshu, lol!	12:44
lardman	hiemanshu: no	12:44
hiemanshu	cpscotti: ?	12:44
hiemanshu	lardman: then wait till they send it	12:44
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, "somebody is gonna get hurt real bad"	12:45
hiemanshu	lardman: you will get a sent email too	12:45
hiemanshu	cpscotti: heard of russel peters?	12:45
cpscotti	no..	12:45
lardman	hmm	12:45
cpscotti	who's that?	12:45
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lardman	would be interesting to see a break down of who's received what	12:45
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rcg	meh	12:46
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rcg	what was the last thing i send in here?	12:46
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rcg	(11:44:47 AM) rcg: ehm.. just a little heads up.. seems like Druid23 messed up the wiki page: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia	12:47
rcg	(11:45:20 AM) rcg: messed up as in kinda reverted to a very old state	12:47
rcg	(11:46:06 AM) rcg: should we just revert his change?	12:47
cpscotti	hiemanshu, who's that?	12:47
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rcg	just in case i didn't sent it correctly before i got disconnected	12:48
cpscotti	s/that/b/he	12:48
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: a comedian	12:48
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI	12:48
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rcg	alright Vitaminj fixed it already	12:50
cpscotti	hiemanshu, haheah lol!	12:51
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: listen to the whole thing :P	12:51
lcuk	lardman, same here	12:52
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* cpscotti watching.. :d		12:53
lardman	lcuk: :(	12:53
hiemanshu	cpscotti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI	12:53
hiemanshu	errr	12:53
hiemanshu	cpscotti: N950 email received and device ordered 7th (OID-052796). Sent on 11th (AM)	12:54
lcuk	lardman, it should be sent soon :D	12:54
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hiemanshu	from the wiki	12:54
hiemanshu	lcuk: I hope	12:54
hiemanshu	because they are sending random OIDs	12:54
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, shiiet..	12:55
cpscotti	yeah..	12:55
lardman	well let's just hope they're in gear and will send a tranche today	12:55
cpscotti	hiemanshu, got to the "somebody's gonna get hurt real bad" part..	12:56
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: and http://twitter.com/#!/seiflotfy/status/90356475423236099	12:59
cpscotti	hiemanshu, stop this! hehe.. is that torture of some kind? lol	13:00
hiemanshu	yup :P	13:01
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, lol! anyway.. I have faith I'll see it sometime this week.. (humm.. !?!?faith!?!?.. am I getting religious about this thing.. geez!)	13:03
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: I want it before friday to show off at the Qt meetup	13:04
hiemanshu	cpscotti: so if its not sent today or maybe tomorrow, there is a good chance I wont see it until the next week :(	13:04
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chem\|st	morning	13:06
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, faith man! faith! :P	13:07
hiemanshu	cpscotti: lol, well I am going to see if I can sleep for a bit, head hurts :(	13:07
cpscotti	hiemanshu, hangover? or too much F5ing?	13:10
hiemanshu	cpscotti: both	13:10
cpscotti	haha.. join the club!	13:11
hiemanshu	:D	13:11
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hiemanshu	well I slept after being up for over 36 hours, that adds to the list too	13:11
cityLights	any sed guru in the house?	13:12
hiemanshu	cityLights: just ask, if someone knows the answer, they'll answer	13:13
cpscotti	hiemanshu, gosh.. that's a nice weekend! enough pizza?	13:14
hiemanshu	cpscotti: well no pizza, but a lot of other stuff, and a nice sunday morning trek	13:14
cpscotti	cityLights, try awk it's a lot more "readable"	13:14
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cityLights	hi all	13:32
cityLights	ip route list 0.0.0.0/0 \|sed 's/.dev $[a-z]\+[0-9]\+$.$/\1/'	13:32
cityLights	is giving me two lines, how to get only one?	13:32
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bindi_	hey	13:32
cehteh	which 2?	13:33
bindi_	ive got cssu, and when using camera, it says memory is full	13:33
bindi_	just reflashed and installed cssu	13:33
bindi_	26G free on internal	13:34
cityLights	cehteh: I got two lines with eth0	13:34
cehteh	strange	13:34
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cityLights	I can explian why	13:34
cityLights	I got two defaults with difrrent metric	13:34
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cityLights	any way , I can pipe and get one, but is there a sed wt?	13:35
cehteh	i am not logged in to my device but does it really do that? ..	13:35
cityLights	way?	13:35
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cehteh	\| head -1	13:35
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cityLights	right	13:35
cityLights	I was looking for the sed way	13:35
cehteh	some sed or awk way prolly too	13:35
cehteh	actually learning awk would make this easiers :)	13:35
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cityLights	this is to fix xen's bridge script	13:36
cehteh	ip route list 0.0.0.0/0 \| awk '/default/{print $5; exit(0);}'	13:37
cehteh	does that work?	13:37
cityLights	yes	13:37
cehteh	:)	13:37
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cehteh	bindi_: configured to save pics to µSD?	13:39
cehteh	or do you have usb still plugged in and in storage mode?	13:39
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* SpeedEvil completes a nokia survey he has been sent about his current phone.		14:04
SpeedEvil	For all the good it'll do.	14:04
cehteh	lol	14:04
cehteh	[ ] Will you buy a WP7 Phone	14:05
SpeedEvil	Exactly.	14:05
SpeedEvil	Though it also mentioned lenovo as a handset maker.	14:05
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SpeedEvil	Of the future phone.	14:05
SpeedEvil	I suppose they are positioned well for it.	14:05
cehteh	haha "anything but nokia" :P	14:06
SpeedEvil	They already make rectangular black things.	14:06
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cehteh	when my n900 breaks, i'll buy the next open plattfrom gnu/linux based phone ... maybe i have a few vendors on my blacklist (sony, apple, microsoft) but i dont expect those to come out with an open platform anyways	14:07
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cehteh	i'd like if samsung goes the open way, i thing they would be welcome by the community	14:08
cehteh	but iff this certainly takes years for a product	14:09
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cehteh	how long did maemo evolve before the n900? 5, 6, 7 ..? years?	14:09
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bindi_	cehteh: how to check?	14:27
bindi_	the settings doesnt cover that	14:27
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cehteh	yes you can select where to store on the camera app .. settings or the 'memory card' icon on the lower lefr	14:29
cehteh	left	14:29
cehteh	also when/while usb is plugged in in storage mode, the drives are unmounted at the device and not available	14:30
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: anything yet for ya?	14:33
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, nope	14:33
hiemanshu	cpscotti: gah, ok :(	14:34
bindi_	cehteh: it said root volume	14:34
bindi_	i changed it to internal memory	14:34
bindi_	whats the difference	14:34
cpscotti	:/	14:34
cehteh	woot it can write to root?	14:35
cehteh	thats really bad	14:35
cehteh	if root becomes full, then your device will become unreliable	14:35
cehteh	if you have already some pictures stored there, better move them out of the way	14:35
cehteh	(i dont know that this even works)	14:36
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Hurrian	cehteh, full root isnt much of a problem	14:38
Hurrian	on UBIFS	14:39
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cehteh	Hurrian: how that? if the OS wants to store something there and this fails then things get hairy	14:39
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Hurrian	cehteh, logs in /var are compressed because UBIFS	14:39
Hurrian	linux doesnt panic on full root anywat	14:40
Hurrian	on a side note, the n900's rootfs is lzo compressed right?	14:40
SpeedEvil	Linux doesn't - which doesn't make any difffernecte if the stach you're using over it fall over.	14:40
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Hurrian	it's not like we're swapping on root, in fact i got the N900 to start on a read-only file system once	14:41
Hurrian	mostly because of a broken UBIFS, but my point stands	14:41
Hurrian	the N900 will still work with a full root, you may not be able to write new files though	14:41
cehteh	Hurrian: i meant the OS/installation becomes unreliable, not the kernel or filesystem per se	14:42
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Hurrian	however, most of everything you download for apps writes to emmc, no problem there	14:42
Hurrian	hmm, wonder if we can recompress the N900's rootfs in zlib	14:42
cehteh	if apt-get cant even create its lockfiles for example (are these on /?)	14:42
Hurrian	cehteh, that's for debian-apt	14:43
Hurrian	fapman works fine	14:43
cehteh	well since 1.2 and 'normal' use, full rootfs is not a problem anymore	14:43
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cehteh	but bugs, like writing pictures to root may pose problems	14:43
Hurrian	didnt know that camera-ui even allowed that	14:44
cehteh	Hurrian: well even startup may (i dont know for sure) writes data to root, nologin, lockfiles, fsck marker, and so on	14:44
cehteh	if that fails then the devices doesnt boot correctly .. either fatally or just something becomes unreliable	14:45
Hurrian	cehteh, isn't the N900's fstab 0 0 at the end?	14:45
Hurrian	fsck marker would only be for /home	14:45
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Hurrian	anyways, doesnt ubifs not come with a fsck tool?	14:46
cehteh	yeah that was only an example .. there are other things on a 'normal' linux system which require a writeable root	14:46
cehteh	but most/all of this things can be turned off/ relocated	14:46
cehteh	and i dont know how much maemo5 does this on the n900	14:46
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Hurrian	cehteh, /dev/sda3 / ext4 ro 0 0	14:48
Hurrian	fastest boots ever	14:48
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Hurrian	tmp on ram, /home and /usr on separate drives	14:48
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: 2 hours to the end of the day :/	15:02
cpscotti	hiemanshu, you mean.. in helsinki?	15:03
hiemanshu	cpscotti: yeah	15:03
cpscotti	hiemanshu, hope!	15:04
cpscotti	hehaeuhue	15:04
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khertan	we want to believe	15:05
khertan	:)	15:05
hiemanshu	khertan: yours was sent, so STFU :P	15:05
khertan	:)	15:06
khertan	yeah but no tracking number ... and didn't expect dhl to found my little town before next week :)	15:06
hiemanshu	well tracking number will come at the end of the day really	15:06
khertan	i know	15:06
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hiemanshu	but atleast the sticker is with your name has been printed	15:07
khertan	yep	15:07
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cehteh	and they'll drop it by parchute?	15:07
khertan	:)	15:08
khertan	i just hope they will not use iphone gps ... didn't found my town :)	15:09
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cehteh	where do you live? .fr we have someone from martinique with a .fr domain, bit off the mainland :P	15:09
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lardman	hmm, still no notifications :(	15:13
* lardman goes to cry into a sandwich		15:13
khertan	cehteh, north of paris ... 77km	15:13
hiemanshu	lardman: same here, the shipping is fucked up :(	15:13
khertan	but in very small town ;)	15:14
cehteh	well .. looks still central	15:14
hiemanshu	I ordered on thursday, and it and its monday, for fucks sake, send my device alreadyh	15:14
khertan	cehteh, yeah ... but tnt and dhl never deliver thing in time	15:14
cehteh	i am in karlsruhe 15km away from the french border .. and over there on the vosges are really small and hardly reachable towns	15:14
khertan	cehteh, last time tnt said that address didn't exist	15:15
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khertan	cehteh, you can say it s hardly reachable ... mine town isn't ...	15:15
cehteh	some valleys are better reachable from the german side than from france :P	15:15
khertan	:)	15:16
hiemanshu	khertan: in the order page, what does your order status show up as?	15:16
khertan	germany have this days a better budget than us	15:16
khertan	which wasn't the case 10 years ago	15:16
khertan	hiemanshu, let me check	15:17
* khertan hate OBS and RPM		15:17
khertan	Device Sent to Customer	15:17
khertan	hiemanshu, ^	15:17
hiemanshu	khertan: ok thanks	15:18
khertan	error: Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found: ... *.pyo <<<< of course dubfull packaging tool it s not suppose to be installed	15:18
cehteh	"device lost while shipping" :)	15:18
khertan	:)	15:18
khertan	cehteh, my last 2 tnt delivery was lost	15:19
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lardman	mine says "New Order"	15:23
lcuk	lardman, which page shows the order	15:23
lcuk	or is that the email	15:23
lardman	the order page	15:23
lardman	click on orders	15:24
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lardman	https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/ProductOrders I guess	15:24
MohammadAG	New order here too	15:24
CaCO3	my order page also sais "new order", since last thurstday when I oredered it	15:24
lcuk	same here	15:25
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hiemanshu	same here	15:25
hiemanshu	I wanna shoot the nokia shipping dept.	15:26
lardman	more interesting would be to know whether that changes to anything else	15:26
lardman	or if it just vanishes once it's been shipped	15:26
hiemanshu	changed to 'Device Sent to Customer'	15:26
hiemanshu	changes*	15:26
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CaCO3	well, as we get it for free, i don't want to make pressure	15:29
CaCO3	I see it as good will of nokia	15:29
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MohammadAG	would be fun if it changed to "Difficulties while processing your payment"	15:30
* Jaffa wants MOAR SOFTWAREZ :-p		15:31
CaCO3	:)	15:31
Jaffa	Hurry up & get your devices.	15:31
MohammadAG	yeah, totally our fault	15:31
CaCO3	I am more disapinted that there is not yet a properly set up building system :(	15:31
hiemanshu	Jaffa: make nokia send us our devices soon	15:31
CaCO3	I already tried to pack/build packages, but without some how to explanations I just got stock	15:32
Jaffa	CaCO3: http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS and http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3694	15:33
CaCO3	well, it nowhere explains how to pack the *.tar.gz and the debian.tar.gz	15:33
Jaffa	CaCO3: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24047&postcount=15 :-p	15:33
Macer	ok	15:33
Macer	google+ is actually... kind of nice	15:34
Jaffa	CaCO3: (cos I had the same problem, I wheeled out an updated mud)	15:34
Macer	although i hate the way it does that whole blacked out video/photo thing like fb decided to do	15:34
CaCO3	and my dsc files seem to be wrong, at least the builder sais always architecture: excluded)	15:34
Jaffa	CaCO3: Let mud2 create your .dsc for you, if you're using Qt Creator	15:34
CaCO3	well, after 2 days of consulting google I gave up	15:34
Macer	and i am curious how fb isn't suing the hell out of them for a pretty obvious clone of fb :)	15:34
CaCO3	I am waiting until the system is set up and documented	15:34
CaCO3	Jaffa: I got very confused about suse, spec and so on	15:35
CaCO3	I am working on a debian sytsem	15:35
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CaCO3	I am packing python projects, so qt creator cant handle them, and the other ones are ports	15:36
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Hurrian	http://goput.it/ewx.jpg	15:37
khertan	Whouhou !!! Pyflakes packages	15:37
khertan	Whouhou !!! Pyflakes packaged ... what a pain to package a simple package with obs	15:38
CaCO3	I havent even figured out yet which architecture the N9* will use. Is it armv8el or something 7	15:38
khertan	undocumented errors and full of googling to avoid	15:38
Hurrian	CaCO3 - armv7l	15:38
khertan	CaCO3, for the moment ... i didn't see any target for harmattan on the meego community obs	15:38
CaCO3	thys why I am confused...	15:39
khertan	https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Arzr <<< some have a harmattan repository	15:39
khertan	:)à	15:39
Hurrian	to be exact, armv7tnhl	15:39
CaCO3	does mud2 work in scratchbox?	15:39
Hurrian	t - thumbee , n - neon , h - hardfp , l - little endian	15:40
Hurrian	*thumb	15:40
Hurrian	woops	15:40
CaCO3	I asked rzr yesterday for some hints, but he didnt want to help or didnt see my request :(	15:40
rzr	sorry guys i was afk	15:40
CaCO3	in my OBS, I cant even add the harmattan repo or something with armv7el	15:41
rzr	CaCO3: ping me again in a couple of hours, else i did rtfm you can try to branch my git	15:41
Jaffa	khertan: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=25005#post25005 <- how to enable Harmattan COBS target whilst it's not visible yet	15:42
khertan	;)	15:42
CaCO3	yea, thanks. maybe later, i am just heading off to a job interview	15:42
khertan	Jaffa, thx you jaffa	15:42
Jaffa	khertan: CaCO3: Follow the threads "apps.meego.com in the Nokia N9" and "Qt Creator, debian_harmattan and Scratchbox"	15:42
CaCO3	ok, thanks, I will have another look on it later	15:43
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hiemanshu	khertan: did you get an email from DHL?	15:45
khertan	hiemanshu, not yet ... will probably come soon	15:45
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* CaCO3 is heading off		15:49
ruskie	hmm has anyone tried updating telepathy with a more recent release?	15:49
ruskie	on the n900	15:49
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khertan	hiemanshu, i got the tracking number	15:52
khertan	No result found for your DHL query. Please try again.	15:52
khertan	lol already lost ? :)	15:53
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Jaffa	khertan: Takes them a while.	15:53
khertan	Jaffa, yeah i know just joking :)	15:53
khertan	PREMIUM Service .... nice for a free device ...	15:54
khertan	thx nokia	15:54
khertan	Jaffa, maybe you can help me	15:55
khertan	:)	15:55
khertan	Jaffa, what excluded really mean in obs ? :)	15:55
Jaffa	khertan: Be quick - got a meeting in a minute	15:55
khertan	yep no problem i m learning packaging for meego and harmattan	15:55
khertan	:)	15:55
Jaffa	khertan: "Excluded" means the target matching functionality didn't find the necessary trigger file. For example, I've configured my home project to build against MeeGo 1.2, but Attitude is "excluded" becaused it doesn't have a .spec file.	15:56
khertan	ok this mean i need a spec file, and a dsc to target meego and harmattan. thx	15:56
khertan	have a good meeting :)	15:56
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khertan	%define _unpackaged_files_terminate_build 0 <<< the magic define to be able to build python package with python setup.py	16:16
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hiemanshu	khertan: FU, still new order here :( :(	16:30
hiemanshu	well nothing today then :(	16:31
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: http://twitter.com/#!/Summeli/status/90415959336157186	16:44
rm_work	hiemanshu: same :(	16:44
rm_work	still "New Order" for me :(	16:45
rm_work	did more people actually get theirs shipped today?	16:45
hiemanshu	rm_work: well fucking nokia, I am not going to develop anything for them now, untill N9 releases and its 2 months old	16:45
hiemanshu	rm_work: yes, like khertan	16:45
hiemanshu	and a few more	16:45
cpscotti	hiemanshu, god! this is getting bad...	16:45
hiemanshu	s/months/years/	16:45
hiemanshu	cpscotti: yeah, and well its almost the end of the day there in .fi	16:46
rm_work	wtf	16:46
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deimos	rm_work, me too since 7 jul :(	16:46
khertan	rm_work, yep i got it shipped today and with tracking number	16:46
rm_work	people really getting pissed off because Nokia is taking a while to loan them a device, for free? :/	16:46
cpscotti	hiemanshu, I see the day tomorrow taking the same course it did today.. lots of hope in the beginning and then hate at the end	16:46
hiemanshu	and they said they will ship within one business day	16:46
hiemanshu	yup	16:46
nmjnb	Hi everyone. I've got some trouble with my N900, it won't connect to Nokia Ovi Suite.	16:46
deimos	khertan, when you made the order ?	16:46
khertan	7 jully 12h27 fi time	16:47
nmjnb	I didn't need it before but recently I tried the "Kernel Power" kernel, and now I'm trying to reverse it without luck.	16:47
rm_work	seems a little odd, but i guess they should expect that... when you make people feel entitled to something, they get pissed off when you are slow at providing it, even when you didn't have to provide it in the first place and are doing them a favor <_<	16:48
nmjnb	So I was thinking of flashing the OS	16:48
rm_work	it's not like we're paying them a bunch of money	16:48
khertan	rm_work, it s human	16:48
hiemanshu	rm_work: well esp when a big company like nokia takes a whole fucking week to ship something	16:48
rm_work	:/	16:48
hiemanshu	khertan: they cant handle 500 orders in one day?	16:48
rm_work	you made the order on thursday, no?	16:49
khertan	rm_work, and this prove that we have interest in there device	16:49
hiemanshu	rm_work: yes	16:49
rm_work	that means there's only been 2-3 working days now	16:49
khertan	hiemanshu, probably when it s done in an office and not a the production center	16:49
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khertan	hiemanshu, and they probably reflash them all before packing them	16:49
rm_work	and they are probably not equipped for this kind of rush	16:49
rm_work	just calm down and give them some credit for doing this program in the first place	16:49
khertan	it s come from the 5th floor	16:49
khertan	:)	16:50
rm_work	and wait :P	16:50
hiemanshu	rm_work: thats stupid, if they weren't equipped for it, they shouldn't have let me order it	16:50
fiferboy	rm_work: New Order for me too	16:50
fiferboy	Maybe they're doing North America last?	16:50
rm_work	i'm excited, and i'm disappointed it's not shipping yet, but i don't feel like i have a right to get pissed at them for it :/	16:50
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rm_work	they're doing me a favor, for free, because they decided to	16:50
khertan	you didn't order it ... you ask it :) they give it free remember	16:50
khertan	:)	16:50
rm_work	and quim and others have put in a LOT of work	16:50
nmjnb	What are you all waiting for? demo samples of the N950?	16:51
hiemanshu	rm_work: we are doing them a favour too for free	16:51
rm_work	I don't look at it that way, so much	16:51
rm_work	i guess if you were JUST developing because you want to help them?	16:51
hiemanshu	rm_work: we shouldn't have to fix stuff the lazy coders there forget to add	16:51
hiemanshu	but its just me	16:51
rm_work	but i'm developing because i want to use this phone and make it the best experience for me and others	16:51
rm_work	:/	16:52
hiemanshu	I am pissed for multiple reasons, plus I have a hangover :P	16:52
rm_work	admittedly, their development department is sometimes frustrating, but honestly they're doing better than a lot of other companies at open-sourcing at least	16:52
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rm_work	and they're being strangled at the corporate level at the same time and fighting just to exist	16:53
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khertan	the thing that pissed me off is the qml switch	16:53
khertan	:)	16:53
hiemanshu	khertan: do you think they will manually flash images? really?	16:54
hiemanshu	I would hire interns to do that kind of work, packaging/flashing, etc	16:54
khertan	hiemanshu, they do it manually before n900 loan at maemo summit in 2009 :)	16:54
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rzr	hi guerby	16:55
khertan	ask to tekojo ... :)	16:55
rm_work	yeah it was ridiculous	16:55
hiemanshu	MEH, its the end of the day in .fi, and this is pissing off really, I would expect a company like Nokia to be really fast	16:55
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rzr	guerby: u talked about compilefarms last time we met at hsf, do they support scratchbox ?	16:56
GAN900	ieatlint, build number, not day of the week.	16:58
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hiemanshu	GAN900: shipped yet?	17:00
achipa	rm_work: khertan: hiemanshu: guys, note that the DDP is a bit different channel than retail, so there is a lot more overhead. Plus meego.com is not the only channel (see launchpad, Qt Ambassadors, etc), so there are actually a fair number of people to be dealt with	17:00
frals	15:45:21 < hiemanshu> rm_work: well fucking nokia, I am not going to develop anything for them now, untill N9 releases and its 2 months old	17:00
frals	lol	17:00
hiemanshu	frals: hah :P	17:00
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frals	we can forward that to the person responsible if you want	17:00
hiemanshu	achipa: I know, just ranting :P	17:00
frals	im sure the device can go to someone who wants it instead ;)	17:01
hiemanshu	frals: naaah, just ranting :P	17:01
achipa	frals: don't need to, I'm right here :)	17:01
frals	achipa: ^^	17:01
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khertan	achipa, this is why i try to explain with my word :)	17:01
GAN900	hiemanshu, not yet.	17:01
GAN900	khertan, not fair, my order was placed at 12:04 Finnish time!	17:02
hiemanshu	GAN900: its completely random, someone who ordered much later than me got their shipped	17:02
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hiemanshu	achipa: are the devices flashed manually before being sent?	17:02
khertan	GAN900, when you have a ton of things to send, you didn't care about order ... you try to send the whole things as fast as possible	17:03
GAN900	I'm still convinced it's just one unpaid summer intern.	17:03
khertan	;)	17:03
hiemanshu	GAN900: working part-time :P	17:03
khertan	GAN900, it s fair for unpaid device	17:03
khertan	:)	17:03
achipa	hiemanshu: no, we have cyborg aliens for that purpose :)	17:04
hiemanshu	achipa: hah	17:04
GAN900	khertan, fair or not, it seems like Nokia would want to get these things out quickly.	17:04
hiemanshu	well anyways, I just need the device to test what I have done so far, SDK/sbox doesn't cut it really	17:05
hiemanshu	achipa: ^	17:05
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rm_work	achipa / frals: exactly why I'm telling people to CALM THE F#*% down and be happy they're going to all this effort :P	17:06
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GAN900	qemu is impressively slow.	17:06
achipa	we're approving/sending as fast as we can, as said, the process has a bandwidth and not much we can do about it (it's as if you get into a traffic jam and say 'well just build a couple of extra lanes')	17:06
hiemanshu	achipa: yeah, and we are just the angry people in the jam waiting to get to work :)	17:07
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GAN900	Daniel Wilms and his jig just can't flash fast enough.	17:07
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GAN900	Remember kids, everytime you complain about the shipping delay he docks you another week number on your firmware.	17:09
hiemanshu	:(	17:09
GAN900	At least Thursday is about the cutoff for "one week"	17:09
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khertan	GAN900, we are the 11th jully, the deadline for submission was the 28th june, result was given few day after, ... it s less than two weeks	17:10
GAN900	khertan, Nokia's estimated ship date from the DDP	17:10
khertan	GAN900, i found that it s pretty fast for a dead plateform, dead didn't walk normally :)	17:10
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pabs3	does anyone know who runs http://www.octofish.net/bugjar/ ?	17:11
khertan	GAN900, i didn't get estimated date :)	17:11
GAN900	khertan, either the email or the order summary page said to expect shipment within a week.	17:11
khertan	GAN900, a week ... 11 - 7 - 2 day of week end ...	17:12
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khertan	less than a week :)	17:12
GAN900	exactly	17:13
lcuk	pabs3, sjgadsby	17:13
khertan	and dhl isn't better ... no estimated date ...	17:13
GAN900	Hopefully that means it'll ve here by Friday and not Monday	17:14
khertan	i just hope dhl will not lost himself, or lost my precious like the two other time	17:14
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hiemanshu	GAN900: it said expect it to arrive by then :P	17:19
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hiemanshu	achipa: anyways, any idea if we will get a newer N950 image?	17:28
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achipa	hiemanshu: newer than... ?	17:34
hiemanshu	achipa: the 22-6 ones that others hae	17:34
achipa	no, that's the one for all N950s	17:35
hiemanshu	ah ok	17:35
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alterego	So, what are the order state changes? I've still got "New Order" :)	17:39
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Jaffa	alterego: New order -> Device sent to customer IIRC	17:41
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Jaffa	alterego: Then you're in DHL land, "Received shipping information" -> "Collected" -> "With delivery courier" -> "Delivered"	17:41
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alterego	Cool,	17:43
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alterego	Probably nothing will happen until tomorrow then	17:43
alterego	:)	17:43
* alterego waits patiently :)		17:44
hiemanshu	alterego: yeah, waiting here too	17:44
Jaffa	alterego: Mine got picked up from Helsinki at 1900 Helsinki time	17:44
Jaffa	alterego: Although it sat for hours in "Device sent to customer"	17:45
alterego	:)	17:45
alterego	Well, we'll see.	17:45
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fiferboy	alterego: At least you've been acknowledged now	17:54
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGikV3oOW50 <--- more torture :P	18:02
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, lol! I don't wanna watch this! ughh! stopped before he opened the box.. I'll leave that as a surprise! hehe	18:04
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: its no suprise really	18:07
hiemanshu	cpscotti: everyone knows there is a phone and USB cable inside that :P	18:07
cpscotti	hehe. I know.. I saw the box and everything inside at a meetup here.. but anyway..	18:08
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: the device looks lovely, cant wait to get my hands on it :P	18:11
cpscotti	hiemanshu, yep! same here.. but it's proving quite hard to do so.. eheh	18:12
alterego	fiferboy: indeed, always nice to be acknowledged ;)	18:13
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: yeah, well there is no video of the N950 booting up, I'll make one once I get mine	18:13
hiemanshu	cpscotti: and N900 vs N950 comparison	18:13
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, cool.. btw anyone knows how far the beast can be overclocked up to?	18:14
cpscotti	(just out of curiosity)	18:14
cpscotti	hehe	18:14
hiemanshu	cpscotti: overclocking is a nice way to kill your device	18:15
hiemanshu	cpscotti: but 3630 can be OCed upto 1200 without hurting it, and around 1.6Ghz	18:15
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cpscotti	well.. as far as the n900 goes, overclocking is a nice way to Rock your device	18:16
cpscotti	"live fast, die young"	18:16
cpscotti	all devices will eventually die young anyway	18:16
alterego	Heh	18:16
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DocScrutinizer	cpscotti: to 7.75GHz	18:19
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cpscotti	DocScrutinizer, you're kidding right?	18:20
cpscotti	bring the ice!	18:20
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DocScrutinizer	noooo, it's all true. this is a 1337 device, you can even OC to 16.31415926GHz but we don't want to make you feel bad with your lame 900	18:22
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DocScrutinizer	don't you think Nokia considered which clock is the best to save them lots of repair costs during the max 2years warranty while maximizing the thrill and sales of any of their devices?	18:23
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DocScrutinizer	soo if you're so venturous then please accept you WON'T SELL YOUR DEVICE after you overclocked it, and YOU WONT GET WARRANTY REPAIR when the device breaks during the 2 years warranty time. What makes you think you are using the device so much less than the average user so you can get away with running it OCed for 2 years?	18:26
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flux	so, how many broken OC devices are there around? the quoted statistics hasn't really made me a believer that it's likely to brick a device that way.	18:27
flux	it seems that in about 95% of cases the reason for n900 dying is a malfunctionin usb port..	18:28
DocScrutinizer	or are you so convinced there'll be a better device or even just a spare N900 when your device breaks after 6 months	18:28
flux	I sure hope so.	18:28
flux	so I just need to be extra careful with my usb port for the next 6 months..	18:30
* DocScrutinizer sels flux a 220V->300V transformer so this guy can "overclock" arbitrary appliances. Image!! OCed incandescent bulbs! Buy 40W get 100W brightness ;-P		18:31
flux	docscrutinizer, have you btw noticed that incandescent bulps are used at their ~full capacity for extended periods of time?	18:31
flux	whereas on a mobile device I hope to use the full capacity for a few seconds, or perhaps fractions of a second, at a time.	18:32
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DocScrutinizer	HAHAHAHA	18:32
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DocScrutinizer	now this sentence fully qualifies you for OCing to 100GHz, next step will be infinity	18:33
flux	I haven't actually OC'd my device. I'm just dubious about the scale of the bad effects it is advertised as having.	18:34
DocScrutinizer	~omap-oc	18:35
infobot	somebody said omap-oc was http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11	18:35
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DocScrutinizer	the second link should tell you enough, if you're really so scientifically touched	18:36
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flux	so, it appears I've run 0.75 cpu hours a day currently. asusming it's 600MHz, at 800MHz that would be around 0.56h per day. so that 1000h hour 800MHz would be around four years.	18:39
flux	sounds OK to me.	18:39
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DocScrutinizer	this calculation isn't exactly based on correct assumptions: much of the CPU hours the CPU spends with polling and similar waiting for slower parts of the system. As you can't OC e.g RAM or esp MMC similar and same amount you could do with CPU, your CPU hours won't reduce liner to clock increase	18:47
DocScrutinizer	linear*	18:48
DocScrutinizer	and you know your CPU is running at full speed during all your call times?	18:49
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DocScrutinizer	while the modem TX adds to overall heatup of device and thus is pushing CPU temp, so the degradation factor multiplies another time	18:49
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DocScrutinizer	maybe you have only 30 min cals per month, average user may have like 90min a day	18:50
kerio	i thought nerds didn't talk	18:51
DocScrutinizer	then maybe pandora is the device for you	18:51
DocScrutinizer	I thought nerds watch youtube videos a lot - flash->max_cpu_clock plus internet-download->modem_at_max	18:52
kerio	zomg, it's really cool	18:53
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DocScrutinizer	same thing like a call	18:53
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kerio	holy shit 440€	18:54
kerio	that's a lot (	18:55
kerio	:(	18:55
DocScrutinizer	not for a 1kg brick of platin - what are you talking about?	18:56
kerio	pandora	18:56
cpscotti	DocScrutinizer, I totally agree OC is a crazy thing but then again, isn't the experiment worth? I'm not saying nokia doesn't have a reason to set the clock as they do. What I'm saying is that I'm up for the adventure sometimes.	18:56
hiemanshu	cpscotti: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25686&postcount=577	18:56
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: well if you want to watch DivX formats on the phone, you need to OC, or there is a lag in the video :(	18:56
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, haehae.. whenver u post a link it's like I already know what I'll find but I click anyway.. lol :D	18:57
DocScrutinizer	cpscotti: fair enough, as long as you know what you're doing, are not hyping it for noobs, and agree on the don't-sell&don't_ask_for_warranty policy	18:57
hiemanshu	cpscotti: thats love :P	18:57
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: well that and dont rant about it	18:58
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hiemanshu	cpscotti: something different http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn7-fVtT16k	18:58
cpscotti	DocScrutinizer, well.. I'd say most of my CS/hardware knowledge came from playing with something without knowing what I'm doing.. but of course accepting whatever consequences it might bring	18:59
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RST38h	moo javispedro	18:59
cpscotti	totally agree with the don't-sell&don't_ask_for_wrrrnty	18:59
filip	hi :)	18:59
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: moo	18:59
kerio	why "don't ask for warranty"? o:)	18:59
cpscotti	but the guys that stole my n900 will probably sell it anyway.. can't help on that	19:00
filip	I am an open source contributor (for example kernel support for jornada7xx), and enjoy hacking. Would you rather suggest a nokia n900 or motorola milestone?	19:00
kerio	n900, definetely	19:00
filip	I am afraid of maemo being the dead end on an n900 after nokia's fail	19:00
hiemanshu	filip: if you ask here, N900, if you are in android forums, milestone	19:01
DocScrutinizer	kerio: because otherwise that'll cause what already happened: Nokia will discontinue the device due to economic disaster from RMA	19:01
filip	does maemo get any funding for development?	19:01
kerio	DocScrutinizer: if it already happened, what's the problem?	19:01
DocScrutinizer	kerio: let's just say OC gave use spare N8 for N900-repair	19:01
cpscotti	kerio, it's like.. it can't get any worse.. so from now on it's just happiness	19:02
kerio	do they still repair N900s?	19:02
DocScrutinizer	no they don't	19:02
kerio	DocScrutinizer: will you repair my n900? :(	19:02
hiemanshu	so if they dont repair N900s and I give mine for repair, do I get a N8 for an extra cost?	19:02
filip	btw, is nokia n9 buyable?	19:03
DocScrutinizer	N900 obviously TOTALLY discontinued, they don't even have swap devices	19:03
hiemanshu	yes	19:03
cpscotti	filip, basically.. everyone I know that owned a n900 still owns it and loves it..	19:03
cpscotti	(random people included)	19:03
DocScrutinizer	kerio: no	19:03
Jaffa	hiemanshu: No, I got an N8 instead. Swapped it for an E7	19:03
kerio	DocScrutinizer: but my usb port is still broken!	19:03
filip	cpscotti: do I understand correctly that meego is a 'merge' of maemo and moblin?	19:03
hiemanshu	Jaffa: yes but yours was in warranty	19:03
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: I would swap for a n900 or a n950 in order of appearance and nothing else!	19:04
DocScrutinizer	kerio: find somebody else to repair it please	19:04
cpscotti	filip, politically yes.. technically no.	19:04
kerio	really though, is there someone who knows how to repair n900s?	19:04
chem\|st	kerio: solder it?	19:04
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cpscotti	filip, and harmattan is not meego anyway..	19:04
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filip	cpscotti: so ppl here are generally not very much involved with meego?	19:04
DocScrutinizer	kerio: there are good USB-repair thread on tmo	19:04
chem\|st	filip: this is #maemo...	19:05
cpscotti	humm.. I thing we'd say pretty much everyone's involved with qt and linux	19:05
DocScrutinizer	and there are a few cellphone service points in almost every town	19:05
javispedro	mooo	19:05
DocScrutinizer	bring the two together	19:05
kerio	DocScrutinizer: but that would require me to go on TMO	19:05
cpscotti	filip, the bits in between are a bit cloudy	19:05
cpscotti	s/thing/think	19:05
filip	I'm just wondering why development hasn't moved to meego	19:05
filip	is there something you don't like about it?	19:05
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DocScrutinizer	filip: for now maemo5 still is the most usable most mature OS for N900	19:06
DocScrutinizer	with the best support "app-wise"	19:07
trx	also, there were no devices that run meego	19:07
filip	trx: it has been partially ported to the n900	19:07
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trx	yeap	19:07
trx	and community partialy moved to meego..	19:07
filip	well I think that in the open source world the main scarcity is developers time	19:08
DocScrutinizer	kerio: if you're interested, I got a bookmark colection for USB repair	19:08
filip	that makes me wonder why the force is being split between meego and maemo	19:08
villager	meego partially ported isn't good enough for me to use it regularly, so I'll continue developing for maemo for a while	19:08
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: well i suppose i am, the alternative is a n8	19:08
kerio	unless they'll eventually swap my phone with a n9	19:09
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: so, where's the hating?	19:09
ShadowJK	I don't think "partially ported" is a good description. It just happens that plain MeeGo does almost nothing :)	19:10
gri_	the dhl delivery guy knows how to work: let the n950 package stay in the garden without any notification	19:10
DocScrutinizer	~usb-fix is <reply> Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off	19:10
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	19:10
DocScrutinizer	~tell kerio about usb-fix	19:11
filip	so the best open source smartphone is atm the n900?	19:13
kerio	ty	19:13
villager	filip: I don't think you need to assume that community-written software couldn't run on both maemo and meego (and maemo and meego themselves aren't written by the community anyway, but by paid engineers)	19:13
kerio	i doubt i'll be able to do that myself though, i don't have a solder gun or the required manuality	19:13
DocScrutinizer	filip: many here will answer "yes"	19:13
DocScrutinizer	incl me	19:13
kerio	filip: technically there are no open source phones	19:13
filip	DocScrutinizer: what could be better? freerunner is hardly usable...	19:14
filip	kerio: yeah, I mean something more open than androi	19:14
kerio	the openmoko devices get close, and the n900 is somewhat behind	19:14
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kerio	oh, absolutely then	19:14
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filip	kerio: and n900 can be hacked to support usb host 2.0?	19:15
kerio	DocScrutinizer: do you think a somewhat skilled technician will be able to do it?	19:15
kerio	filip: you mean in host mode?	19:15
kerio	it's already there	19:15
filip	kerio: yup	19:15
DocScrutinizer	filip: future devices incl future OS could be better - I don't see this happen any time soon	19:15
kerio	it just works badly	19:15
kerio	:)	19:15
DocScrutinizer	kerio: definitely	19:15
DocScrutinizer	~lart kerio	19:16
* infobot pushes the wall down onto kerio whilst whistling innocently		19:16
filip	kerio: what are the problems?	19:16
kerio	hey, it does work badly!	19:16
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filip	kerio: I was wondering about a possibility of using n900 with a bluetooth mouse, usb keyboard and a displaylink video device	19:16
kerio	filip: well, there's tv-out, which is kinda what you want	19:16
DocScrutinizer	kerio: you are using it badly! ;-P	19:17
filip	kerio: 720x574 is hardly more than the 800x480 internal display :P	19:17
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: i am not using it, pay attention	19:17
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kerio	my usb port is brok	19:17
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: so yeah, obviously USB hostmode works badly for you then	19:18
kerio	it's sad because it's true :(	19:18
kerio	filip: do you really care about the "phone" part?	19:18
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: anything for the N950 yet?	19:18
kerio	because apparently the pandora is better	19:18
DocScrutinizer	filip:	19:18
DocScrutinizer	~hostmode	19:19
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232	19:19
DocScrutinizer	and	19:19
DocScrutinizer	~hostmode-charging	19:19
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203	19:19
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Jaffa	javispedro: Shiny	19:20
javispedro	indeed.	19:20
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: regarding hostmode? yeah, we are as fsckd as I expected	19:20
* javispedro was impressed when flicking through the time zone list		19:20
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: so will be fun again ;-D	19:20
Jaffa	First phone I've had where one of the shipped ring tones is one I quite like	19:20
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hah, well any chances of getting the schematics, or should I put my ninja suit on? :P	19:21
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: DUH, which one?	19:21
Jaffa	"Blip" is quite sci-fiey and distinctive, without being an annoying tune	19:21
javispedro	the bootsplash is very webos1 like ;)	19:21
Jaffa	javispedro: Ari's influence? ;-)	19:21
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: ninja suit is OK	19:21
hiemanshu	javispedro: you got yours?	19:21
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: lemme check	19:22
javispedro	yep!	19:22
hiemanshu	javispedro: you lucky bastard :(	19:22
javispedro	seems that one of my worries about the UI (that the swiping out thing would be tiresome) has disappeared.	19:23
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: that's ALL? I'm tempted to sort my glasses on the board and blame my neighbour	19:23
javispedro	for some reason though, when holding it in portrait, it's best to swipe from right to left otherwise I hit sensitivity issues.	19:23
javispedro	but the opposite direction works very well.	19:24
hiemanshu	javispedro: does the phone need charging before the first use?	19:24
gri_	no	19:24
* hiemanshu wants to know because I want to make a unboxing video		19:24
hiemanshu	with powering it on, etc	19:24
ruskie	liion/lipo don't need charging for first use	19:25
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: how's about "Noise Experiment" or "Retrobot" or even "Roboioioi"	19:25
gri_	mine had 75% load at arrving	19:25
DocScrutinizer	;-P	19:25
ruskie	usual stored charge is ~70% iirc	19:25
ruskie	for li* bats	19:25
hiemanshu	ah awesome!	19:25
ruskie	anyway sharing those ringtones?	19:25
ruskie	erm anyone even	19:25
hiemanshu	well once I get my device I might	19:26
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: no, doesn't need charging, but hooking up to N900 wallcharger soonish won't hurt neither your video nor the device. Be aware though the screen is covered by a completely opaque protector ;-P	19:27
ruskie	fun	19:27
ruskie	I can see that going... wtf it's not working...	19:27
ruskie	return to sender	19:28
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yeah, will make sure about that :)	19:28
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DocScrutinizer	fooled me quite a bit first time XP	19:28
hiemanshu	<--- dinner	19:28
filip	kerio: yes I do, that's the primary function for me :)	19:28
kerio	filip: then... tough shit, i suppose :P	19:29
kerio	i guess that it could work with easydebian though	19:30
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: ruskie: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10140	19:30
kerio	install a kernel module to get the fb device, then run X on it from easydebian	19:30
filip	that could be funny	19:31
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you got your N950? \o/	19:31
javispedro	yes	19:32
* javispedro fails to enter his wpa password using vkb		19:32
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, HATE	19:32
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, did you meet DHL?	19:32
javispedro	yes, funny guy, only took like 8h </grumble>	19:33
fiferboy	Just curious, has anyone in North America gotten a device?	19:33
javispedro	why the hell the device comes preloaded by Baidu and lots of chinese bookmarks?	19:34
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GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, probably qole, but they just sent him one to make us irritated.	19:34
fiferboy	qole has his?	19:34
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: ???	19:35
javispedro	oh.	19:35
javispedro	I can guess why	19:35
Jaffa	javispedro: ??? Mine didn't.	19:35
javispedro	I selected Spain as region, and probably Spain comes with China bookmarks.	19:35
Jaffa	That isn't particularly obvious	19:35
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, no, but that would be my assumption.	19:35
* DocScrutinizer wonders if he knows where to look for bookmarks at all		19:36
RST38h	javispedro; you already received the device/	19:36
javispedro	yep	19:36
DocScrutinizer	the browser startscreen is pretty annoying and messed up	19:36
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Jaffa	Actually, good question. I only thought you had bookmarks through "Add to apps"	19:38
gri_	Jaffa: Is it normal that the n950 syncs contacts with the n900 and all are lost after a reboot? (used your wiki descriptions for that)	19:39
javispedro	nah, browser home page is bookmarks, like on n900	19:39
javispedro	albeit instead of small thumnails it shows horizontally large vertically clipped	19:39
DocScrutinizer	cough the one with lots of rubbish like "Welcome to the..." (SIC!) and "welcome to the Corporate..." (SIC!) ?	19:40
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: ah, I noticed that :P	19:41
DocScrutinizer	also hooray for this page not zoomable	19:41
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javispedro	question: does touchscreen vibration work?	19:41
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: a pity, the protector foil kinda looks WAAAY cooler then the glary glass actual screen ;-P	19:42
DocScrutinizer	than*	19:43
DocScrutinizer	or was it "glossy"?	19:43
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yeah, I would went wow, seeing it for the first time, and then I realized its just a protector	19:43
hiemanshu	s/would //	19:43
infobot	hiemanshu meant: DocScrutinizer: yeah, I went wow, seeing it for the first time, and then I realized its just a protector	19:43
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: the missing camera/sensors give it away	19:44
DocScrutinizer	indeed	19:45
DocScrutinizer	yet I never before bothered about removing protector foild prior to first functional tests ;-P	19:46
DocScrutinizer	so I went "WTF?!" on powering N950 up	19:46
GeneralAntilles	I see Lenovo opted for a shitty LCD panel with their U1 tablet.	19:46
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: and stupidity strikes again! :P	19:47
DocScrutinizer	~lart all glossy LCD	19:47
* infobot beats all glossy LCD senseless with a 50lb Unix manual		19:47
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: does vibrator feedback when tapping work for you?	19:47
javispedro	I can't get either sound nor vibra feedback, despite feedbackd running.	19:47
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: I was just so happy about the matte black screen, I guess	19:47
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yes	19:48
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DocScrutinizer	faintly	19:48
* javispedro grumbles		19:48
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DocScrutinizer	or actually only rarely	19:48
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: matte screens on mobiles isn't really common	19:49
DocScrutinizer	setings-dound_and_vib	19:49
DocScrutinizer	sound*	19:49
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: esp when you expect mobiles to have perfect colors and everything	19:49
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: or not at all actually, just booting after ramping everyting up in settings	19:52
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: nope, no feedback	19:52
javispedro	ah, ok, Iwas starting to think broken vibra..	19:53
javispedro	fortunately though I just realized that if you set it on silent it briefly vibrates, and that does work.	19:53
DocScrutinizer	power-on kick also WFM	19:54
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DocScrutinizer	however the GUI and UX is a mix of 90% WOW and 10% WTF	19:56
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DocScrutinizer	while maemo5 is like 80% WOW, 18% "thank God for that, it's classic", and 2% "meh, this is clearly a case for CSSU"	19:57
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DocScrutinizer	a friggin lot isn't working in landscape at all, a clear reminiscence to N9	19:59
javispedro	time to see what this usb sdk mode is for.	19:59
DocScrutinizer	o.O	19:59
DocScrutinizer	???	19:59
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DocScrutinizer	remote GDB etc?	20:00
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javispedro	seems usbnet	20:00
DocScrutinizer	mass storage for installing the SDK to PC?	20:00
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	20:00
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DocScrutinizer	~ping	20:02
infobot	~pong	20:02
DocScrutinizer	DARN, the friggin cdc_ether killed my eth0	20:02
* DocScrutinizer unpluggs 950 from laptop		20:03
DocScrutinizer	this thing DOES NOT EVEN HAVE a SIM, still advertises on USB as NIC	20:04
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DocScrutinizer	btw sth that never woked like that with N900 for me	20:04
DocScrutinizer	obviously overdone	20:05
DocScrutinizer	for harm	20:05
DocScrutinizer	well, I should blame knetworkmanager or what that thing is	20:06
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* DocScrutinizer has moved the USB plug back from PC to wallcharger ;-)		20:06
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: tell me when you start to tackle aegis and kernel :-D	20:07
DocScrutinizer	aegis<tabtab> is interesting	20:08
DocScrutinizer	but same time puzzling	20:08
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DocScrutinizer	~seen MohammadAG	20:08
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infobot	mohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 77 messages. Is idling for 4h 37m 22s, last said: 'yeah, totally our fault'.	20:08
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* javispedro ponders what the "password" field in SDK connectivity is, considering the password seems to always be rootme no matter what..		20:15
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DocScrutinizer	where?	20:19
DocScrutinizer	I gather you're playing with USB SDK mode?	20:20
javispedro	yes	20:20
DocScrutinizer	I'm wondering if the global policy for developer-mode in aegis is way too restrictive. I'd hope for a developr-mode that basically disables all aegis checks	20:21
* javispedro wants to try his SDL before bricking the device ;)		20:21
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DocScrutinizer	if you want aegis "protection" then there's "normal" mode for that	20:22
DocScrutinizer	in devel-mode aegis ought not bother about manifests for binaries at all, please	20:22
frals	DocScrutinizer: agreed	20:23
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DocScrutinizer	so where do we open this ticket? whom do we pester to fix the issue?	20:23
DocScrutinizer	NB I'm fine with e.g mediaplayer not (fully?) functional in devel-mode - if that's an implication of completely open mode	20:24
DocScrutinizer	I don't need CSS to work in mediaplayer, when I'm in devel-mode	20:25
DocScrutinizer	I'm happy with videos with CSS simply not playing	20:26
DocScrutinizer	but honestly, that's what aegis mode switching is all about, to allow such a policy	20:27
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DocScrutinizer	a devel-mode that's still restricitve is nonsense	20:27
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javispedro	one interesting consequence of the swipe out thing is that by default you leave applications open instead of closing them	20:28
javispedro	hope the GiB will be enough for that.	20:28
frals	after that cgroups hopefully terminates the right thing ;)	20:28
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javispedro	more worries	20:29
javispedro	cause that's what android would do :(	20:29
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frals	well what do you do when out of memory?	20:29
javispedro	it's just a different approach	20:30
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: (leave open) already mentioned and critizised it	20:30
frals	DocScrutinizer: swipe from top closes in later releases	20:30
SpeedEvil	javispedro: yeah - it took me ages to work out how to close apps.	20:30
SpeedEvil	(on the rda)	20:30
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javispedro	on fremantle user is the one say "ok, I want this application so much I'm willing to let it waste my precious memory to let it do whatever it is doing"	20:31
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DocScrutinizer	frals: <quote me> with swipe-from-top to close apps the gui is almost nice</quote> (OWTTE)	20:31
javispedro	the android way is "the user is an idiot, let's just run all applications and a wizard will choose which ones we close"	20:31
javispedro	harmattan seems like a weird compromise.	20:32
frals	javispedro: and when the system is out of memory, what happens? :)	20:32
frals	roulette with all pids? :D	20:32
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I prefer Fremantle's approach.	20:32
GeneralAntilles	I'm more than capable of dealing with my own failings.	20:32
frals	id say harmattan is more like, if the user wants to close something he can do it, otherwise we have this fallback for people who have no clue whats going on	20:32
javispedro	frals: on Diablo you got a "out of memory" _before_ launching an app.	20:32
javispedro	on Fremantle I don't think I ever had an out of memory event.	20:32
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: harmattan is like windows6 in that respect	20:33
javispedro	probably because with the close button being so accesible, the average number of open apps was 2. or 3.	20:33
javispedro	while on harmattan, well, after toying with it for a minutes I already have _all_ of the applications open.	20:33
javispedro	(compliment: it is still performing)	20:34
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: but taskswitching gets a PITA	20:34
frals	DocScrutinizer: using the 3x3 grid?	20:34
DocScrutinizer	for mere matters of cluttering the switcher	20:34
javispedro	either way, the close gesture is a welcome adition and probably makes it more like fremantle.	20:34
DocScrutinizer	frals: even then	20:35
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frals	fair enough :)	20:35
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* javispedro still sometimes wants to "swipe cards out" of the task switcher		20:35
DocScrutinizer	duh, never thought about that - what does it do?	20:36
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mtnman	hello	20:36
javispedro	that is a webos gesture that got on me, does nothing on harmattan (scrolls actually)	20:36
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, ooh.	20:36
GeneralAntilles	Can't we implement that in the theme?	20:37
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javispedro	we had this discussion, and it seems harder than that, because there are no available free scroll "directions"	20:37
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javispedro	horizontal switches to launcher or feedview	20:37
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javispedro	and vertical pans	20:37
lcuk	javispedro, technically border panning should be available from all edges	20:38
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: actually swipe and flick are redundant in the 3 basic screens	20:39
fiferboy	Are there any multi-touch gestures?	20:40
fiferboy	Like two-finger swipes, or anything?	20:40
DocScrutinizer	it never occured to me I could also flick aka "scroll" to switch from taskswitcher to any other of the 2 screens	20:40
DocScrutinizer	fiferboy: nope	20:40
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: how you'd do it?	20:40
DocScrutinizer	fiferboy: which is quite a pity	20:40
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: fiferboy: try pinching in task view	20:40
javispedro	hmprf.	20:41
javispedro	web browser cannot install non user/* packages	20:41
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I'd use swipe to switch to screens and reassign horizontal "dragging" of apps out of screen to "close app" - for example	20:42
javispedro	which btw on harmattan seem to be marked as such with a different method	20:42
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: please share how to reproduce	20:42
javispedro	the what?	20:43
javispedro	pinching, p.debs?	20:43
DocScrutinizer	install via webbrowser	20:43
javispedro	click on .deb, click again on download manager, wait a few seconds, get error message	20:43
javispedro	?	20:43
DocScrutinizer	I'm still lost on how to install anything	20:44
khertan	ovi store	20:44
khertan	:)	20:44
DocScrutinizer	yeah that's what I did after typing in the URL of that bash repo	20:44
javispedro	aegis-installing libsdl1.2 lol	20:44
khertan	:)	20:44
DocScrutinizer	khertan: "Coming soon..."	20:44
DocScrutinizer	;-P	20:44
khertan	DocScrutinizer, yep ... like everything on this plateform	20:45
khertan	at least git should be available in rzr home	20:45
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: so how did you get to any URL where you could actually click on .deb?	20:46
khertan	and pyflakes on my home :)	20:46
javispedro	I would be careful installing things external things until we get to know aegis	20:46
javispedro	otherwise you risk getting the "Device is malfunctioning you dumbastard!"	20:46
khertan	:)	20:46
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hsdl/	20:47
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DocScrutinizer	o.O	20:47
javispedro	as I said, I _couldn't install_ it, but I got a "Package is not wellformed" or sth like that	20:47
javispedro	which is very similar to the one you got in Fremantle when it was not user/*	20:47
DocScrutinizer	same here	20:47
DocScrutinizer	I then clicked again on the local download copy	20:47
frals	package malformed or something seems to be some catch all crap	20:47
javispedro	the way to make user/* packages has changed in harmattan, so no wonder nothing works	20:48
DocScrutinizer	which actually installed the bash.deb	20:48
DocScrutinizer	iirc	20:48
frals	seen it when trying to install proper packages	20:48
javispedro	heh	20:48
frals	or what i consider proper anyway, and whats in the image you guys have so :P	20:48
javispedro	it is not a dep issue as that installs without any external dep here	20:48
javispedro	(I already used dpkg -i )	20:48
khertan	http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/khertan/Harmattan/	20:48
khertan	:)	20:48
GeneralAntilles	frals, get us a new image. :P	20:49
javispedro	is that user/*?	20:49
frals	:p	20:49
khertan	javispedro, hum ... good point	20:49
javispedro	khertan: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Reference_documentation/Harmattan_Appendix_to_the_Debian_Policy_Manual	20:49
javispedro	khertan: I do not know how much QtCreator automates that.	20:49
khertan	javispedro, oh there is a doc finnaly	20:49
javispedro	yep :)	20:50
khertan	Maemo-Flags: visible <<< nice it didn't respect debian policy	20:50
khertan	whouhou	20:50
javispedro	well, it's better than the maemo trick	20:50
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khertan	maemo trick isn't so bad	20:50
javispedro	the maemo trick actually violated policy, this one's just a nonstandard extension.	20:50
DocScrutinizer	I'm missing a tools-repo actually	20:50
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: with dev mode a metapackage containing most of what was on tools repo is installed	20:51
javispedro	but of course I bet you mean "your" tools repo ;)	20:51
CaCO3_	khertan: what does it mean on the OBS builder when it sais *4 hours" job time? Doues your package take that long to compile or is it waiting sinz 4h?	20:51
javispedro	instead of stuff like oprofile	20:51
javispedro	etc.	20:51
DocScrutinizer	I mean a proper repo with random stuff like the nnnn pkgs found under develpment in any sane distro	20:52
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: What are /you/ going to do with a new image?	20:52
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: the calendar app is formidable and the pickers impressive.	20:52
DocScrutinizer	indeed	20:52
DocScrutinizer	see my screenshots on OVI	20:52
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javispedro	we finally have something that could compete with Palm's PIM :)	20:53
DocScrutinizer	alas MTF which aiui is deprectaed for app devels	20:53
javispedro	also, in the general direction of making this more like a phone and less like a computer,	20:53
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javispedro	the note application now handles the notes database by itself (ie no file picker)	20:54
DocScrutinizer	see the abysmal slotmachine date/time-picker widgets from QMLcomp...(1,2) apps	20:54
javispedro	you could disagree here, but I prefer very much the database approach vs file picker.	20:54
khertan	burk	20:54
DocScrutinizer	eeeew	20:55
DocScrutinizer	and the notes somewhat acted up on me, on first note I intended to enter	20:55
javispedro	woah	20:55
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, same thing /you're/ going to do.	20:55
* javispedro loves floating formatting bar		20:56
javispedro	in notes	20:56
javispedro	beatiful	20:56
DocScrutinizer	also globally no markup+C&P	20:56
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: I knew that was coming :P	20:56
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: yes there is!	20:56
DocScrutinizer	uhuh	20:56
DocScrutinizer	then it's friggin well hidden	20:56
javispedro	it just appeared on me!	20:56
javispedro	it's a floating formatting bar	20:56
javispedro	great.	20:56
DocScrutinizer	in browser?	20:56
javispedro	albeit I have to see how that works on larger notes.	20:56
fiferboy	DocScrutinizer: link to your ovi screenshots?	20:57
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: no, notes app.	20:57
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DocScrutinizer	in arbitrary text input fields?	20:57
javispedro	yet to see that.	20:57
DocScrutinizer	bah!	20:57
javispedro	albeit when I used to work on the input method there was global c&p support	20:57
javispedro	in the form of a button in the vkb	20:57
DocScrutinizer	fiferboy: somewhere next to http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10140	20:57
javispedro	which does not seem to be present now..	20:57
* fiferboy needs to live vicariously		20:58
javispedro	so how do you copy from browser? good question..	20:58
DocScrutinizer	muhaha server error on OVI	20:59
fiferboy	DocScrutinizer: It is working now	20:59
frals	DocScrutinizer: all textinputs should have c&p	20:59
frals	afaik	20:59
frals	but text selection in browser :(((	20:59
DocScrutinizer	frals: maybe, by using kbd	20:59
* CaCO3_ is wondering why build.pub.meego.com is not accessable anymore. Is it me?		21:00
frals	DocScrutinizer: no, swipe over text to select and it should appear magically	21:00
DocScrutinizer	you can't highlight text with "the mouse" - thanks c-ts	21:00
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you can..	21:00
javispedro	hold	21:00
frals	long tap on text for magnifier	21:00
DocScrutinizer	I tried for ~10min, no success	21:00
javispedro	you clearly have never used an iPhone, DocScrutinizer ;)	21:00
DocScrutinizer	my friend neither	21:01
DocScrutinizer	and he owns an iPhone	21:01
javispedro	well weird stuff still happens on this image	21:01
javispedro	for example now vibrator feedback has appeared	21:01
javispedro	for no discernible reason.	21:01
DocScrutinizer	"2 : 1" on lockscreen. Hooray for now "0" missing instead of "9"	21:02
javispedro	mine says " 0:01"	21:02
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DocScrutinizer	"2 : 2"	21:02
javispedro	for a moment I thought the clock had been resetted until I remember what DocScrutinizer about weird font missing chars ;)	21:02
javispedro	" 0:0 "	21:02
javispedro	today's missing number is "2" here.	21:02
frals	fwiw its fixed now at least ;-)	21:03
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javispedro	btw, screen fingerprint magnet	21:03
javispedro	definitely more than n900.	21:03
DocScrutinizer	woooohaha, vib feedback in notes on vkbd	21:03
javispedro	or maybe n900 already has a shit layer	21:04
GAN900	javispedro, we should make bingo cards.	21:04
frals	DocScrutinizer: seems vibra is only on the vkb and not actually on tapping icons and stuff in my experience	21:04
frals	why its like that i have no idea...	21:04
javispedro	GAN900++	21:04
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DocScrutinizer	still I fail to get it how to highlight text even in notes. all I get is the magnifier-view of cursor position	21:05
frals	less pressure and move over the text	21:05
DocScrutinizer	MEH	21:05
DocScrutinizer	OMFG	21:05
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javispedro	download manager is also good.	21:06
javispedro	accesible from status area btw.	21:07
frals	transfer ui is pretty good aye	21:07
DocScrutinizer	unbearable	21:07
DocScrutinizer	ohwell that's c-ts	21:07
javispedro	btw, qml applications on stock firmware: qml widgetsgallery, maps, and facebook.	21:08
DocScrutinizer	I now have learned how to highlight random text in word chunks	21:08
DocScrutinizer	random, not arbitrary	21:08
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: :)	21:08
javispedro	step by step!	21:09
DocScrutinizer	screwit	21:09
Scifig	Good morning/evening. Did anyone's status change from "New Order" today? I've noticed some people received their device today, but no one mentioned change in order status.	21:09
DocScrutinizer	this device isn't meant for serious work being done	21:09
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: fortunately, your device still has a keyboard to get some work done	21:09
javispedro	including arrow keys and Ctrl+C	21:10
DocScrutinizer	it a multimedia smartphone, not any kind of palmtop computer	21:10
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DocScrutinizer	who minted the term? "optimized to shine on first usage, rather than for serious use"	21:11
DocScrutinizer	you can attract drive-by-customers this way	21:12
Jaffa	grinsekatze: Worked for me, but I had an effort getting them across. I'd delete all from N950, delete the sync profiles are try again...	21:12
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: well, not that you had consistent and/or coherent global copy&paste on the N900.	21:12
javispedro	each of the applications doing it his way.	21:13
GeneralAntilles	Scifig, not me, not fiferboy.	21:13
DocScrutinizer	pick from display in shop, randomly tap here and there, admire the transitions, buy...	21:13
GeneralAntilles	khertan got a shipping, not sure about anybody else	21:13
GeneralAntilles	At this rate we might all have them by the time Nokia's a Microsoft subsidiary.	21:13
Jaffa	s/grinsekatze/gri_/	21:13
infobot	Jaffa meant: gri_: Worked for me, but I had an effort getting them across. I'd delete all from N950, delete the sync profiles are try again...	21:13
Scifig	GeneralAntilles - Thanks. Btw I think both of our orders were submitted on same day too 7/7/11.	21:14
javispedro	wth	21:15
GeneralAntilles	Scifig, khertan's went in at about 12:30 (Finnish time) on the 7th, so it's definitely in order of reception (12:04 here).	21:15
javispedro	n950 comes with imagemagick including decades-old "display" image viewer =)	21:15
javispedro	and it even runs =)	21:15
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	21:16
DocScrutinizer	I'd love to make maps run	21:16
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DocScrutinizer	I'm eager to test that app, more than anything else	21:16
* javispedro finally colides with aegis		21:16
DocScrutinizer	alas it fails for me on Nokia account	21:16
javispedro	"Aegis: verification failed (no reference hash)"	21:16
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DocScrutinizer	haha	21:17
DocScrutinizer	:-S	21:17
Jaffa	Interesting, gPodder stays landscape in Harmattan in tsk switcher. Will have to ask thp how he does that.	21:17
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javispedro	hah, it is very easy if your app is plain X11 :)	21:18
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Scifig	GeneralAntilles - I might have submitted around 16:30 Helsinki time, so more wait for me then.	21:18
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Do you mean NOT in roder of reception?	21:19
fiferboy	s/roder/order/	21:19
infobot	fiferboy meant: GeneralAntilles: Do you mean NOT in order of reception?	21:19
Jaffa	javispedro: Having 'display' is cool, as displaying random images was always a problem on Maemo	21:19
Jaffa	That reminds me, I must put screenshot instructions on Migrating_from_N900_to_N950	21:20
javispedro	Jaffa: sadly I wouldn't suggest using it because it is probably unoutswiplable	21:20
javispedro	# touch /home/user/crap	21:21
javispedro	touch: /home/user/crap: Permission denied	21:21
javispedro	I. WANT. REAL. ROOT.	21:21
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Jaffa	javispedro: I thought an atom prevented that, not enabled it	21:21
javispedro	unredirected windows also prevent it	21:21
javispedro	and seems this uses them	21:22
javispedro	eitherway it seems to work though... albeit corruptely ;)	21:22
javispedro	GOT IT!!!!	21:23
javispedro	develsh	21:23
javispedro	hum.. now I can copy to /home/user but still cannot exec() ..	21:24
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dm8tbr	hmm so does anyone know if I can get all sorts of notifications from harmattan easily?	21:25
DocScrutinizer	WOW it accepted my Nokia account!!! \o/	21:25
dm8tbr	like incoming call, text message, IM, ...	21:25
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Itschue	moin moin	21:26
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DocScrutinizer	the maps app is absolutely overwhelming	21:32
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e0x	DocScrutinizer: n950 ?	21:33
DocScrutinizer	yup	21:33
e0x	i hate you	21:33
e0x	i was reject :D	21:34
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Itschue	n900 nachfolger?	21:35
Itschue	sorry dont know nachfolger in english	21:36
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CaCO3_	successor	21:38
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piggz	any qtmobility experts here? it seems there is some missing symbols in libqtm-12-location	21:44
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Maps is better than Fremantle version but still shit compared with Wayfinder on Diablo (I tried using it yeseterday, with Drive, in the car)	21:44
Jaffa	Pretty, but functionally and usably limited	21:44
piggz	either that, or i have messed up, and it maybe isnt finding the libs	21:44
piggz	Jaffa: compared to google maps nav?	21:45
rm_work	Jaffa: I just want an official GoogleMaps app already >_>	21:45
rm_work	i don't see how, faced with the correct way to do things, they still get it so wrong	21:45
GAN900	Jaffa, really?	21:46
GAN900	That's too bad.	21:46
GAN900	Screenshots make it look like a reasonable Garmin replacement.	21:46
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GAN900	Contractors	21:47
javispedro	"This selects the Maemo Aegis Security Framework. If you are unsure how to answer this question, answer N."	21:48
javispedro	direct to the point...	21:48
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piggz_	pls repeat anything ive missed since 19:45 GMT+1 ...hotel wifi kicked me off :)	21:53
hiemanshu	piggz_: http://fpaste.org/zdbw/	21:54
piggz_	hiemanshu: nothing much then :)	21:54
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hiemanshu	yup	21:54
piggz_	still waiting for dispatch of phone...so working on new game	21:54
hiemanshu	yeah	21:55
piggz_	i guess the app im about to release for maemo will have to be re-written using qt components as it uses qwidget	21:55
hiemanshu	same here, hoping it ships tomorrow	21:55
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javispedro	oh, zImage is now lzo compressed seemingly.	21:59
ruskie	http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Toshiba-Thrive-ships/ <-- interesting	22:00
GeneralAntilles	10.1" is way too big for a tablet.	22:02
hiemanshu	no, 10.1 is perfect, anything smaller is bad	22:02
ruskie	I'm still hoping the touchbook becomes more than vapourware	22:02
fiferboy	No, 10.1" is too small for a tablet. 15" at least	22:03
ruskie	naahhh 30" atleast	22:03
javispedro	so, booting a new kernel without aegis = reboot after 8 seconds	22:03
ruskie	javispedro, owww fun	22:03
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hiemanshu	ruskie: then its not a tablet, its a full size capsule :P	22:03
ruskie	heh	22:04
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GeneralAntilles	7"	22:05
ruskie	GeneralAntilles, to small	22:05
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: the POI integration is awesome	22:05
GeneralAntilles	10.1 you can't hold it and type.	22:05
ruskie	GeneralAntilles, well the touchbook is 8.9"	22:05
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: you can, you just have small hands	22:05
ruskie	1024x600	22:05
DocScrutinizer	maybe shit compared to a real navi, but best I have seen so far (I never used a 'real' navi)	22:05
ivan4th	that Aegis seem to retain too much from Gorgon... It worries me as I'll receive my N950 soon, too	22:06
ruskie	a nice inbetween a to small 7" and to big 10"	22:06
GeneralAntilles	hiemanshu, my hands are pretty normal sized.	22:06
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: it finds all the relevant pubs nearby, allows direct phone call, calculates route, gives routing detail...	22:07
DocScrutinizer	but beither map nor drive seems to use the compass :-/	22:07
DocScrutinizer	neither*	22:07
javispedro	oh, we have a compass	22:07
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yeah, bit obviously nuttin that's using it	22:08
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DocScrutinizer	which is a nuisance as that bit is one of the most intriguing ones	22:09
DocScrutinizer	even announced and planned an app based on it	22:09
pauly	hey, "yone want to buy my n900 for $250	22:10
DocScrutinizer	hah, now you want to sell?	22:10
pauly	any^	22:10
DocScrutinizer	what went wrong with swapping it for a N8?	22:10
pauly	no 1 has an n8	22:10
DocScrutinizer	timeless had	22:11
pauly	timeless has not been on	22:11
hiemanshu	I want an N8 too, but not after selling my N900	22:11
DocScrutinizer	you spoiled the deal, I guess	22:11
pauly	no i didnt i been waiting for him to come on irc	22:11
pauly	but he not here?	22:13
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: The biggest problem with it are the light grey roads, on a lighter grey background on a white background.	22:21
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Makes using in a car a bit... tricky	22:21
SpeedEvil	!seen timeless	22:24
DocScrutinizer	in drive? yeah that's bad	22:24
SpeedEvil	I think he was on last night.	22:24
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ~ is the key	22:24
SpeedEvil	~seen timeless	22:24
infobot	timeless <d04149cb@firefox/developer/timeless> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 52m 47s ago, saying: 'well, for mine, you add my repo and install a locale (en-US/en-GB) :)'.	22:25
SpeedEvil	yeah - for large values of last.	22:25
DocScrutinizer	timeless is known by many names ;-P	22:25
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: tried nightmode?	22:26
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rm_work	~seen timelessx	22:30
infobot	i haven't seen 'timelessx', rm_work	22:30
rm_work	hrm forget his other name	22:30
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DocScrutinizer	http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=timeless	22:34
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DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp, timeless_n900, timeless_$randomfoo just some of those	22:36
DocScrutinizer	I really hate this nickname switching	22:36
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: true, just use one common nick or a distributed client	22:40
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DocScrutinizer	well, I'm the right one to bitch, with my up to 4 different concurrent nicks. It's just not exactly trivial to keep all on one bouncer, and some users may not even have the option to use a bouncer. But if you are logging in mutually exclusively from different clients, then I couldn't care less about learning you're just on your N900, or on your MBP or whatever. And I absolutely hate the itsme_zzZZzz itsme_onToilet itsme_dinner scheme	22:44
hiemanshu	Well i have the same nick from all my devices, and yeah stateful nicks are stupid	22:46
DocScrutinizer	http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.html	22:50
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fiferboy	Is it possible to programmatically assign focus to a Qt Component, say a TextField?	22:56
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DocScrutinizer	sure	22:57
DocScrutinizer	just don't ask me about details	22:57
DocScrutinizer	sth along object.takefocus() or whatever	22:58
fiferboy	I can see how to determine if an object HAS focus, but not to assign focus	22:58
DocScrutinizer	setfocus() prolly	22:58
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DocScrutinizer	for all I recall from my Qt time 5y back it's trivial	23:00
fiferboy	There is focus and activeFocus, both for determining focus	23:00
fiferboy	There is forceActiveFocus, but it doesn't seem to work as I would expect	23:00
DocScrutinizer	object.focus.set() maybe?	23:00
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fiferboy	It looks like "object.focus: true" is supposed to work, but it didn't look like it to me	23:02
fiferboy	Retesting	23:02
DocScrutinizer	http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/2004-02/thread00633-0.html	23:03
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fiferboy	Unfortunately, QML doesn't seem to work the same way	23:04
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Nightmode wasn't great. Maps' "Terrain" view seemed best, but navigation in there kept crashing.	23:04
fiferboy	But focus is not a read-only property, so maybe setting it from the right place will work	23:05
Itschue	is there any app that change the fm transmitter frequenz autmatical when an other radio sender my n900 stört?	23:05
cehteh	no	23:05
Jaffa	There's an Empty Frequency Finder script	23:05
DocScrutinizer	that wouldn't help much either, Itschue - how would your radio learn about the freq change?	23:06
cehteh	i'd like the opposite, turn microphone on, find out which broadcast is on, and then hijack it with your own music	23:06
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cehteh	i sometimes need that when i am guest in others cars :P	23:07
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: RDS is already used, so the radio should be able to track.	23:07
DocScrutinizer	I suggested the concept of user selecting a quiet spot on radio, then hit a "tune" button on N900 so the device sends an acoustic beacon on each channel and listens to mic to tell the right channel	23:08
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Jaffa	Itschue: The biggest problem, AIUI, is that the FM RX & TX can't both be active at the same time	23:08
fiferboy	Setting the focus property within the element definition does not work for me	23:08
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: thats slow	23:08
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: won't work when the transmission already got messed up	23:08
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: well maybe	23:08
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: I know ways to speed it up ;-P	23:08
Itschue	the radio didnt change it automatic but when i change it on the radio the n90 change it automatic some fm trans devices can do those thing	23:09
cehteh	wider band :P	23:09
cehteh	more output!	23:09
fiferboy	Hmm, http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCOMPONENTS-403	23:10
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: obviously. How ould the RX inside N900 tell about interference on the car radio some meter distant	23:10
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Itschue2	shit fucking disco	23:11
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cehteh	can it receive and send at the same time? iirc not the receiver is used to tune the transmitter right?	23:12
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: though I actually created nice feedback by sending FMRX signal to FMTX and tuning both to same freq X-P	23:12
DocScrutinizer	s/signal/audio signal/	23:12
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: Jaffa: though I actually created nice feedback by sending FMRX audio signal to FMTX and tuning both to same freq X-P	23:12
cehteh	as i saied, turn microphone on, listen to ambient and analyze it if that what you send	23:13
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: oh yeah, will for sure pan out - in your car, at max volume	23:14
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cehteh	:)	23:14
cehteh	well needs some serious signal processing	23:14
Itschue2	still i use fm boost but this wont work anytime because the radio signal from other sender are stronger	23:14
DocScrutinizer	with extremely smart algos to compensate for RTT and EQ	23:14
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cehteh	but on the other hand a frequency analyzer app would be nice for the sound enginerrs on the road :P	23:14
cehteh	yeah and delay compenstation and maximize, not match	23:15
cehteh	i know that :)	23:15
DocScrutinizer	Itschue2: find a silent spot on your car radio, read the freq, tune N900 FMTX to that freq	23:15
Itschue2	fuck ey	23:16
Itschue2	das geht net so einfach weil immer wieder irgendein sender stört	23:16
DocScrutinizer	sorry the, that's not going to get fixed by any means	23:16
Itschue2	ich suche zu hause ne freie frequenz und 15 km später werde ich gestört	23:16
DocScrutinizer	then*	23:16
cehteh	Itschue2: there is some fmtx boosting app and then search for a good spot to place the n900	23:16
Itschue2	i know i have the fmboost script but i dont know how much battery energy it use?	23:17
cehteh	sometimes thats at surprisingly odd places because the car antennas are outside or on the window and the car is a faraday cage	23:17
DocScrutinizer	pro tip: plugging in a dead-ended USB cable is reportedly amplifying the FMTX signal quite a bit	23:17
cehteh	yes	23:18
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Itschue2	ohh good idea	23:18
DocScrutinizer	fmboost won't eat significant amounts of battery power	23:18
Itschue2	cool	23:18
cehteh	prolly less than the speakers :P	23:19
DocScrutinizer	it's like ramping up power used by FMTX chip from 0.0000001W to 0.0000005W	23:19
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Itschue2	ok that is to forget	23:19
Itschue2	ähm	23:19
DocScrutinizer	you'll hardly find a way to measure it	23:19
Itschue2	how can i change the order of the milkyway desktop pics i want that all 4 pics goes one to left i hope you know what i mean	23:20
cehteh	move all desktop icons one to the right :P	23:21
KhLoveNickSwitch	Departed Facility in HELSINKI - FINLAND HELSINKI - FINLAND 21:51	23:21
KhLoveNickSwitch	:)	23:21
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Itschue2	no the start desktop is empty there is only these cool eyes	23:21
cehteh	cool eyes?	23:22
Itschue2	the eyes widget	23:22
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cehteh	well anyways .. the pics are ordered by the theme or whatever container sets this .. you have to redefine/recreate that, possibly thats easy but some work	23:22
cehteh	that certainly eats a lot of power	23:23
Itschue2	the eyes eats lot of power?	23:23
* cehteh put the gnome eyes widget on his wifes menubar (desktop computer) and surprisingly its one of the apps which accumulate the most cpu		23:23
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cehteh	note that it needs to wake for every screen redraw	23:24
cehteh	doesnt matter for a desktop but certainly matters on the n900	23:24
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Itschue2	note that it needs to wake for every screen redraw in german plz	23:25
villager	I thought it only needed to wake for every input event	23:25
holmesII	I am using QT, in which header that I can get the battery charge level (mhA) information ?	23:25
DocScrutinizer	Itschue2: it will run on every action that takes place on the phone	23:26
DocScrutinizer	Itschue2: it sucks	23:26
Itschue2	but ist cool	23:26
Itschue2	its	23:26
Itschue2	fuck denglish	23:26
holmesII	battery.reporting.current = 847 (0x34f) (int) how can i get this information in QT?	23:27
DocScrutinizer	will kill your batteryin half the time :-)	23:27
DocScrutinizer	(eyes)	23:27
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Itschue2	hmm i will test it	23:28
Itschue2	and the desktop background pics kann i change the order evene when it is installed or is it better to download the.deb file and change it in this?	23:29
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Itschue2	ok time to go see you tomorrow	23:30
DocScrutinizer	desktp wallpapers are changed by clicking on desktop background, clicking on the gear icon, selecting sth like "change wallpaper" from the menu from upper right	23:34
gri_	DocScrutinizer: Am I allowed to use the n900 wall charger for the n950 or will that damage something?	23:34
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DocScrutinizer	perfectly sane	23:35
DocScrutinizer	doing it all the time	23:35
gri_	good :)	23:36
DocScrutinizer	if it would break anything, I think I should have a visit at Tampere	23:36
DocScrutinizer	;-P	23:36
DocScrutinizer	nah, nokia EE mostly know their business - well they practiced for quite some time :-)	23:39
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DocScrutinizer	I wish my colleagues in Taipei always had delivvered such quality of hw design	23:39
gri_	ok, I only had in mind that the wall charger is/was not recommed for meego ce, so I thought it might handle things a bit different :)	23:39
gri_	recommended*	23:40
DocScrutinizer	I don't know about any such limitations for meegoCE	23:40
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gri_	it was about "might not load, use to usb cable to be sure"	23:40
DocScrutinizer	if they have such limitations then because of their messed up bme implementation that probably doesn't know how to detect the fastcharger	23:40
DocScrutinizer	musb_hdrc driver implemetation might be related somehow as well	23:41
DocScrutinizer	as charger detection is a task of musb_hdrc USB driver	23:42
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DocScrutinizer	use ShadowJK 's charger script and profit ;-P	23:42
DocScrutinizer	guaranteed to work with fastcharger	23:43
DocScrutinizer	even unde meegoCE (as long as they don't completely mess up sysfs)	23:43
DocScrutinizer	no, fastcharger works like a charm for N950	23:44
* DocScrutinizer ponders where to dump this particular factoid to...		23:45
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DocScrutinizer	maybe make Jaffa add it to his "first encounter" compendium?	23:46
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: ^^^	23:46
gri_	btw, my n950 was missing the "0" at the first start ;)	23:47
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DocScrutinizer	hey, "0" here	23:49
DocScrutinizer	now	23:49
DocScrutinizer	yesterday it was "9"	23:49
DocScrutinizer	might be timezone and moonphase dependent	23:50
gri_	second boot was also cool: contacts application said "no contacts" whereas the call-ui showed all contacts	23:50
* DocScrutinizer would so much appreciate to see Nokia opening up nb-tracker to public read access		23:50
DocScrutinizer	all contacts???? where from?	23:51
gri_	copied from n900	23:51
DocScrutinizer	copied as in...?	23:51
gri_	like jaffa wrote in the wiki	23:51
DocScrutinizer	aaah	23:51
DocScrutinizer	k	23:51
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* ShadowJK has a different version for meegoCE in N900		23:52
ShadowJK	N950 didn't come with a wallcharger?	23:54
gri_	only phone and usb cable	23:55
cehteh	hehe prolly the same for the N9 .. the really dont want you to like it	23:55
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: nope	23:55
cehteh	if you want a wallcharger, buy the WP7 Phone	23:55
DocScrutinizer	nonsense :-D	23:55
cehteh	:>	23:56
ShadowJK	usb is slooow	23:56
DocScrutinizer	wallchargers would create need for localized packaging	23:56
ShadowJK	though I do have one hub I can get 700-800mA out of	23:56
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: won't fly, unless your hub has D+- short	23:56
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: not really .. almost any device which has a small wallcharger i have came with a adaptor for the plug	23:56
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cehteh	well the n900 wallcharger should work for the n950 too	23:57
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, well my script ignores d+/d- ;)	23:57
DocScrutinizer	an adapter wouldn't fit into the box ;-P	23:57
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: :-D	23:57
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I know that	23:57
cehteh	btw i now tried your script with the bike charger on a trip, seems it doesnt work well	23:58
DocScrutinizer	I think I'm the father of all charger scripts ;-)	23:58
ShadowJK	Amusingly: powered hub - self powered hub - n900 and it barely stays at +-0 current with screen on	23:58
cehteh	next i aim for a cap in the charger cable then look ahead	23:58
ShadowJK	cehteh, I'd imagine alot of Undervoltage faults in the log	23:58
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cehteh	ShadowJK: yes the n900 can suck more than 500ma constantly .. netradio and some other app are enough	23:59
cehteh	ShadowJK: right	23:59
DocScrutinizer	and how exactly does that matter?	23:59
cehteh	ShadowJK: would be nice to make it back off the current and gracfully restart	23:59
ShadowJK	In other news, google lost patent lawsuit and has to pay 5 million un damages for using drumroll a linked list	23:59
cehteh	haha	23:59
nox-	haha	23:59
DocScrutinizer	is your bike charger so weak it can't deliver >500mA?	23:59

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