IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-07-11

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jacekowskievery drm can be cracked00:00
jacekowskiit's just matter of time and effort00:01
jacekowskior sometimes it's just easier to get another phone00:01
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achipait's not a DRM, not that anyone cares00:06
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Venemodoes it have any advantages at all?00:12
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nusseanyone using bluetooth pan? just recently my bt connection drops every other minute and i have no clue how to fix that00:21
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Macerlmao! awesome!00:30
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DocScrutinizernusse: interference with nearby WLAN?00:33
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DocScrutinizerlmao not playing anything00:37
nussenever heard of that, linkquality ist reported to be 25500:38
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vi___yo guys01:02
vi___how do I launch rtcom-call from xterm?01:02
ruskie <-- maybe this page can help vi___01:04
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vi___-_- it is first on the list01:08
vi___my noobishness has brought shame to this channel01:08
ruskienot really01:08
vi___ty anyway01:08
vi___next question, what is the best way to parse an xml file to get the 'meat' ot with bash?01:10
piggzim trying to upload a new package to extras-builder, but am getting a 'file upload error' are there any known issues atm?01:10
vi___i.e. an RSS feed01:10
vi___dont worry, I dont really expect an answer01:11
ruskievi___, if you want rss there is rsstail that can help01:11
ruskieif you want generic xml... xml-twig can be helpful01:11
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ruskiexml-twig has xml-grep01:11
ruskieit is perl though01:12
* vi___ shudders01:13
ruskieyou just use xml-grep01:13
ruskiesame way as you would grep01:14
ruskiedon't need to know anything about perl at all01:14
ruskieor you can figure out an awk/sed parser for it...01:14
ruskiefrankly I find that most times I don't need full xml... just sed from line starting with <a> to line that has <b>01:15
ruskieand sed can do that well enough01:15
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vi___rsstail looks exactly like what I want01:16
vi___actually, looking at the feed I am interested in01:18
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vi___all I need is the data between <description> <description />01:18
vi___all this because all the RSS widgets suck!01:19
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vi___ok bb01:23
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DocScrutinizervi___ loves to exaggerate01:30
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DocScrutinizeror I simply dunno that emoticon01:31
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javispedrooh, QGraphicsView is nice.01:32
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* javispedro is doing something cool.01:32
javispedrosee? I don't always rant about everything.01:32
javispedrothere's stuff I like.01:32
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DocScrutinizerI particular like your comments :-D01:33
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, liar.01:34
GeneralAntillesIt's just a wind-up.01:34
GeneralAntillesSo you'll have our attention when you start ranting again.01:34
* javispedro curses01:34
javispedrook, I just realized it is not caching my rendering01:34
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# uptime01:34
DocScrutinizer 00:33:51 up 1 day,  1:57, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0001:34
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javispedroso here comes the rant =)01:34
DocScrutinizerdunno if I like the 0s there :-P01:35
GeneralAntillesOK, describe Qt Quick Components in one sentence.01:36
GeneralAntilles"Native widget set for QML"?01:36
DocScrutinizerthis week's hype01:36
javispedro"no-one-knows-what-it-does multifaceted monster"01:36
GeneralAntilles"Qt Quick Components are ready-to-use UI elements for QML that fit well into the native User Experience." says Nokia01:37
javispedroare those harmattan's?01:37
DocScrutinizernext week we get a new toy to play with01:37
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, played with QML at all?01:38
GeneralAntillesIt's pretty fantastic for UI prototyping.01:38
DocScrutinizerdoes that mean the datepicker is a sane calendar-like widget then?01:38
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I don't even know how to spell it01:38
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DocScrutinizerand I always thought Qt designer was the best I've ever seen for UI rapid prototyping01:39
DocScrutinizeradmittedly I haven't touched it since maybe 5 years01:40
GeneralAntillesThe underlying code is easy to approach for people with graphics backgrounds.01:40
GeneralAntillesQML would've been a big boon for application development on Harmattan.01:40
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yeah, that's the story I'm summarizing.01:41
javispedroah, mwkn.01:41
DocScrutinizerunless you tell me it doesn't come with slotmachine for datepicker, I'm only mildly interested (to be polite)01:42
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javispedro"A set of native-looking QML 'widgets' for both Symbian and Harmattan"01:42
DocScrutinizerWTF native-looking?01:43
DocScrutinizernative like what?01:43
javispedrolike the other ones in the system.01:43
DocScrutinizerif they look like MTF then I'm all \o/01:44
javispedrowell, that wa the idea..01:44
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DocScrutinizerBWAAH, this c-ts is so :-x01:47
ieatlintwell, the swipe interface is qml01:47
ieatlintmtf is in there, but the components are used for much of the gui01:47
DocScrutinizerdefinitely doesn't like to get touched by somebody not "connected" to the device01:47
DocScrutinizerI wonder if it would work at all with all sorts of c-ts saussage stylii01:48
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DocScrutinizerit's absolutely reproducible: place my wrist on the table and doubletap: 1 out of 3..8 success to unlock. BUT touch the case with a finger of my other hand, then do same doubletap: 100% success01:51
DocScrutinizerand unlocking is just one part. Scrolling in any menu longer than the screen doesn't behave at all, unless I touch the device with my other hand01:53
DocScrutinizerI gather it picks up interference from nearby laptop LCD and charger SPSUs - or rather *I* pick up those interferences01:53
DocScrutinizerfunny detail: fast tapping on both screen frame long sides in sequence gets detected as swipe01:55
javispedroieatlint: ??01:55
javispedroieatlint: I'd say it's the opposite, which apps are qml in the base image?01:55
* DocScrutinizer *yawns*01:55
DocScrutinizeranother funny detail regarding 950 bme: they don't keep it charging all the time while screen is unlocked01:58
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DocScrutinizerwow, another update of sdk-connectivity tool, again 78k. Darn I didn't memorize the revision of yesterday's update, this time it's 0.4.4+0m6 (so now I can look chanlog tomorrow ;-P)02:00
DocScrutinizerHAH download failed02:01
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* DocScrutinizer <- idiot02:02
DocScrutinizerI flashed since yesterday02:02
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DocScrutinizer5th try and "All updates installed" \o/02:04
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, I think the thick glass interferes with the sensitivity.02:12
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, I was discussing this with my boss today.02:13
GeneralAntillesThat Apple will market whatever bullshit benefits them at the cost of consumers and the market.02:13
GeneralAntilles200 billion apps is the only viable way to have a platform02:13
GeneralAntillesNo hardware buttons is desirable.02:13
GeneralAntillesetc etc02:13
DocScrutinizerit works like a charm mostly when I hold the device with other hand, if only with two fingers02:13
SpeedEvilI wonder how the all-plastic case will affect the n902:14
nid0DocScrutinizer, random question, does it work as well if your other hand is grounded to something?02:14
DocScrutinizeron that issue it will have some impact02:14
nid0instead of holding the device02:14
DocScrutinizergood question - lemme try02:14
DocScrutinizerI killed or detuned it, now it always has poor sensitivity02:16
GAN900How's the curved glass?02:17
SpeedEvil'but no user would do that'!02:17
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DocScrutinizerin fact I can't get it to activate02:17
nid0GAN900, presumably not curved on the n950?02:17
GAN900nid0, no, I think the latest devices match the N9 there.02:18
DocScrutinizeraah I was too fast02:18
DocScrutinizerthis thing needs >100ms between taps02:18
javispedrojust watch until the c-ts decides to electrocute you02:19
javispedrooh, I just had an idea.02:19
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javispedrocan we bribe the WHO so that it declares c-ts to be cancerigenous?02:20
DocScrutinizerGAN900: nah, seems random grounding doesn't help02:20
GAN900javispedro, nah, they're good for some things.02:20
GAN900But damn sure it's not phones.02:21
javispedrobut there might not need to even bribe anybody. I don't think anyone has conclusively proven c-ts does not cause cancer.02:21
* javispedro quickly goes to write a few papers02:21
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GeneralAntillesWhen science becomes faith, bad things happen.02:24
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MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, citation needed ~GLaDOS02:27
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GeneralAntillesOne of the nice things about having to wade through all of this idiocy every week for mwkn is that you really pick up a better understanding of things you wouldn't normally care the least about.02:28
GeneralAntillesFor instance, N9/N950 subforums on
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SpeedEvilPsuedo-random question.02:32
SpeedEvilDoes anyone happen to know if hte headswt that comes with teh n900 had a 2 year warranty?02:32
infobotSpeedEvil meant: Does anyone happen to knoe if hte headswt that comes with teh n900 had a 2 year warranty?02:32
nid0in the uk at least, yeah02:33
nid0in theory the nokia warranty states 12 months, but that's basically bullshit02:35
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DocScrutinizerin EU there's something that's unrelated to "warranty", in German it's called "Gewaehrleistung", and it says your *dealer* has to ensure you can use the product for two years, free of any defects02:38
DocScrutinizerit's not linked to the manufacturer but to the dealer, and it's not granted by anybody but rather it's madatory by law02:38
nid0yeah in the uk the actual dealer only has responsibility for a year, and only automatically for 6 months, but the manufacture of *any* electrical/electronic item has to warranty it for a minimum of 2 years, and up to 6 years as reasonably determined to be "fit for purpose"02:39
DocScrutinizeryeah, the 6 months a a magic timeline. Also here you *may* have to prove the defect was caused by manufacturer and immanent in the product from beginning. In the first 6 months the dealer (or manufacturer) has to prove it wasn't02:42
nid0yep, that's the same boundary at 6 months here02:42
DocScrutinizerthe duty to prove moves from dealer to customer after 6 months02:43
* SpeedEvil ponders bothering, versus buying some on ebay.02:46
nid0i'd just send you mine if I had any idea whatsoever where they are02:47
DocScrutinizerthis crappy headset isn't even worth the walk to your dealer, or the stamp for the letter02:47
SpeedEvilI find it useful.02:47
SpeedEvilThe noise isolation is good enough for me to dispense with ear protection when using powertools.02:47
DocScrutinizerI find it less useful than similar 5€ headsets I bought in random IMEX-shops02:48
SpeedEvilAnd the sound reproduction is adequate.02:48
DocScrutinizerth cable is abysmal, way too hard and this way introducing body noise to the earplugs02:49
SpeedEvilThat aspect doesn't really bother me.02:49
SpeedEvilMost of the content I listen to is timeshifted speech radio02:49
DocScrutinizerjust tested it - unbearale02:50
DocScrutinizerthe cable even seems to *generate* noise on its own02:51
DocScrutinizereven without hitting against any other part02:51
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SpeedEvilI tend to wear it under the top layer of clothing, so it can't flap or move much02:51
DocScrutinizerthe problem zone are the last 10cm to the ear plugs02:52
DocScrutinizerI'd probably kill for a really good BT/USB-alternative stereo headset02:55
DocScrutinizerwith a BT sender dongle with a 2.5mm and a 3.5mm end, for devices that don't support either og BT or USB-soundcards02:57
merlin1991SpeedEvil: I read your last line out of context, made me go "wtf?"02:57
SpeedEvilI'd like a nice one of those too.02:58
DocScrutinizerbut please with multiple concurrent BT pairings, concurrently active02:59
DocScrutinizeraccept calls by turning down from parking position the mic lever, and a decent set of easy to operate multimedia buttons03:01
SpeedEvilConcurrant pairings is as I understand it hard03:03
SpeedEvilyou tend to need two radios, or at least clever firmware03:03
DocScrutinizerand of course the whole thing detects if you *wear* it or just have it dangling from your neck, and accordingly reconfigures rsp disassociates from the source device(s)03:04
SpeedEvilAnd clever firmware means firmware that is developed by you - currently the CSR stacks that are common - for example - have a binary blob of bluetooth code, and your own code runs in a little VM03:04
* RzR950 : built and shared : rsync, tmux, git and other cli tools for #n950 #nokia #maemo #meego #harmattan #handset03:04
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* DocScrutinizer ponders what was that - spam?03:06
javispedromost "dedicated" spam ever.03:07
DocScrutinizerindeed, but I'm still puzled03:07
javispedroI mean, the 10 people with n950s are probably the only ones interested on that =)03:07
javispedroyou should feel honored or sth.03:07
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DocScrutinizerDuh, "he" i sgone03:08
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-11 02:05:58] [Whois] RzR950 ist (Who Cares ? You, Mr KGB ?)03:08
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DocScrutinizererr, or not?03:09
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DocScrutinizerRzR950: bother to elaborate on that?03:10
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DocScrutinizer~seen RzR95003:10
infobotrzr950 is currently on #maemo (2m 21s) #meego (2m 21s), last said: 'Caco3: congratz you built some deb !'.03:10
DocScrutinizerthat site indeed is o.O03:13
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DocScrutinizer>>test my packages : <<03:14
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DocScrutinizerRzR950: hint hint: devel-su is shorter than ssh root@localhost03:16
RzR950so you did rtfm :)03:17
ieatlintbah, the manual is for elitists and literates03:18
javispedrook, qgraphicsitem is utterly fantastic. I am throwing a shitload of strokes to it and it's quite performing.03:18
* ieatlint is on a plane03:18
ieatlintthis is weird03:18
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DocScrutinizeraegis-exec  /usr/bin/connect-proxy03:21
* DocScrutinizer giggles evilly03:21
RzR950DocScrutinizer: doesnt this screw the system ?03:22
DocScrutinizerwell, I quoted from the page you liked up there03:23
RzR950well a logout would be prefered let me fix it03:23
DocScrutinizerseems aegis-exec is another word for "trigger selfdestruct"03:23
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RzR950DocScrutinizer: well it did not03:24
DocScrutinizerwanna know what did, nevertheless? I may share the secret incantation03:25
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DocScrutinizerlook there:
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DocScrutinizerI still fail to see what aegis-exec is meant for, basically03:28
DocScrutinizeris it a replacement for shell's exec command?03:29
RzR950i used it to run my stuff as root03:29
RzR950but it is not needed03:29
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RzR950DocScrutinizer: thx for the link03:30
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DocScrutinizer\o/ is dead for me :-/03:31
DocScrutinizerBad Request03:31
DocScrutinizer Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.03:31
DocScrutinizer Reference #7.8c5e6cc1.1310344256.003:31
DocScrutinizerand the URL definitely is the WTF of the weekend:03:32
DocScrutinizerwaaaah, sorry03:33
DocScrutinizerdidn't realize it's SOOOOOO long03:33
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javispedroKick yourself!03:35
javispedrowell done.03:35
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!03:53
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infobotDocScrutinizer: :)03:58
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DocScrutinizersorry again for the spamming04:03
* javispedro lols04:03
javispedro"Stop current playback. Note that if the backend is PulseAudio, due to the limitation of the underlying API, tis stop will only prevent next looping but will not be able to stop current playback immediately."04:03
ieatlinti will consider your apology and will inform you of whether i offer forgiveness at a future date04:04
DocScrutinizerbut that's actually what tried to use with my browser accessing share.ovi.com04:04
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yeah, PA is *so much better* than ALSA04:05
ieatlintthe loop shouldn't be that big04:06
javispedroI guess they are using canberra instead of PA04:06
javispedrocanberra is designed for UI sound effects, no wonder they cannot be stopped.04:06
ieatlinti would guess less than a second before the loop returns04:06
javispedroPA couldn't care less about stopping, just stop sending data to buffer.04:06
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DocScrutinizerwe all know PA happily plays back /dev/NULL infinitely,04:07
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DocScrutinizeradding autogenerated zeroes to zeroes for mixing04:08
javispedrobtw, have you seen this:
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javispedroit probably explains why someone considered "Application $APP sucks. Close it?"04:09
* javispedro ponders what the Spanish localizer will do.04:11
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GeneralAntillesYeah, I kinda like the Tone and Language section.04:16
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MohammadAGWorkdays should start at 3 AM04:26
MohammadAGat least till N950s are shipped :p04:26
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ieatlintMohammadAG: come now, many of them have shipped04:32
ieatlintnokia just hates you, so they're making you wait04:32
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, and end at 1104:33
* javispedro expects to see "Device thrown into Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator Hole" in DHL tracking page at any time now04:33
GeneralAntillesWe decided Elop had Quim killed with the Nokia ninja's04:33
GeneralAntillesand it's all just a hoax04:33
ieatlintpff, nokia doesn't have ninjas04:34
ieatlintelop probably just used the microsoft waones04:34
javispedroGeneralAntilles: considering the latest post on his blog, he has been already brainwashed by Elop, so I guess they are not killing him. For now.04:34
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javispedrofunny post btw. depending on how you read it, you might get that future nokia devices will be "not Linux but webkit+Qt", or "not Meego but Webkit and Qt and Linux", or ...04:39
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, tomorrow we're going to celebrate "Everybody but DocScrutinizer, Jaffa, and X-Fade hates javispedro Day".04:39
GeneralAntillesConsider it a good omen.04:39
javispedrohere's to hoping carrier arrives in the smallish time frame I will be at home.04:40
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TermanaGood morning04:41
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, hire a neighbor to sign for it?04:42
javispedroDHL refuses to ring neighbors, at least here.04:42
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GeneralAntillesThat sucks.04:43
GeneralAntillesHire a friend to hang out at the house for the day?04:43
javispedroThey usually ring me early afternoon, and ask me for a "better" time.04:44
GeneralAntillesHow much stuff gets shipped DHL over there?04:44
* SpeedEvil got a grid-tie inverter sent through DHL.04:45
SpeedEvilI need to ring them as tehy've managed to screw up the duty.04:45
javispedroAmazon used to, but last shipment they used UPS.04:45
GeneralAntillesI see a DHL truck on the road about once a month.04:45
GeneralAntillesOnly shipments I've ever gotten from them have been from Nokia.04:46
SpeedEvilIn addition to the 10 quid processing fee, they've managed to charge me 20 quid duty on a 35 quid item - delivered.04:46
SpeedEvilEbay shipping can be a bit random.04:46
SpeedEvilvis the guy that thought a layer of cardboard, two layers of (small bubble) bubble-wrap, and 'fragile' tape was OK to ship a 1800mm*54mm glass tube.04:47
GeneralAntillesMy friend ordered one of those high-flow rate showerheads the busybodies outlawed years ago.04:48
DocScrutinizerwhat's a grid-tie inverter?04:48
GeneralAntilleseBay seller put a half-dozen Jolly Rangers in the box and a handwritten note wishing him well.04:48
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, home solar, I'd assume.04:48
SpeedEvilIt is a device which converts 18-24V to 240VAC04:49
SpeedEvilFor solar04:49
javispedroGeneralAntilles: lol04:49
SpeedEvilA small solar panel makes sense for me - ~300-600Wp./04:49
SpeedEvilIf I DIY it, I can get it to come in at under a dollar a watt for the complete system.04:49
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, what's the life on the solar panels these days?04:50
SpeedEvilWhich at ~15p/unit of electricity pays off fairly soon.04:50
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: 25 years is likely.04:50
SpeedEvilThough I question that the ones I'm hacking up will do more than 10.04:50
SpeedEvilBut they pay off in 2 years for the ones I'm making.04:51
SpeedEvilThey'd pay off in 6 months or so if I could get the magic paperwork certifying that they were made by magic monkeys, and installed by magic monkeys.04:51
* GeneralAntilles teehees at silly government interference.04:52
SpeedEvilIndeed. All I'd really want would be for it to be legal for me to 'net meter' - that is to simply run the meter backwards.04:53
GeneralAntillesYou know interior designers have to be licensed in the state of Florida?04:53
SpeedEvilIf that was the case, I'd be putting in 5Kwp of panels.04:53
SpeedEvilDIY of course.04:53
MohammadAGI need to take another mobile on me, N900 or N86?04:55
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, you should go to more garden parties.04:55
GeneralAntillesMeet some officials.04:55
GeneralAntillesThen you can get a waiver.04:55
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: I'd be too tempted to stab them in the face with cutlery.04:56
SpeedEvilIt's all for 'the solar industry' - who have engineered subsidies to be put in place.04:56
GeneralAntillesA large part of why I try to avoid paying too much attention to the local news.04:57
SpeedEvilFor the largely pointless industry of putting solar panels on roofs.04:57
GeneralAntillesSomebody should write a book: "Using the Government to Put My Competitors Out of Business"04:57
SpeedEvilWhen this is perhaps 2-3 times more expensive than putting them in sensible (megawatt) sized clusters in fields.04:57
SpeedEvilOr indeed, making easy plug-in-DIY panels.04:57
GeneralAntilles"Legislation to Make Your Business Plan Viable"04:58
SpeedEvilIt's not especially hard to make a panel you can stick on a solid support in a part of the garden with sun.04:58
SpeedEvilAnd you haven't even heard the best part yet!04:58
SpeedEvilIt's revenue neutral - costing the government nothing!04:59
SpeedEvilIt just costs the domestic electricity users.04:59
SpeedEvilSo government doesn't really care about the details, as it's not their money that's being spent.04:59
SpeedEvilAs much as they ever care of course.04:59
GeneralAntillesYet people want to centralize more power there.05:00
javispedroseemingly my undergrad thesis was just awarded cum laude =)05:02
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MohammadAGas much as I want an N95005:02
MohammadAG* javispedro expects to see "Device thrown into Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator Hole" in DHL tracking page at any time now05:02
MohammadAGthat would be awesome05:02
SpeedEviljavispedro: Is that good? :)05:02
SpeedEviljavispedro: What was your topic?05:02
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, sure isn't bad.05:02
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, enjoy it while you can, in the morning: Hate.05:03
javispedroSpeedEvil: building an online system for the formal verification of hdl05:03
SpeedEviljavispedro: Ah - bug gree software.05:03
infobotSpeedEvil meant: javispedro: Ah - buf gree software.05:03
GeneralAntillesBuf Gree Software, Inc.05:04
SpeedEvilBugs in software proved to be bug free are the best sort of bugs!05:04
GeneralAntillesSounds like a used car salesman.05:04
javispedroon spain cum laude is max grade (unlike other grading systems where there's magna, etc. aiui)05:05
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, how's customs down there?05:05
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, really? Wow.05:05
SpeedEvilYou just bounce the bugs a layer down, to the specifications.05:05
javispedroSpeedEvil: "We do not do that" ;)05:05
SpeedEviljavispedro: Many congratulations then!05:05
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, you'll probably see it in Portal 305:05
javispedrothere's even money involved =)05:05
javispedro1250eur =)05:06
javispedroless than the google summer of code, which was easier =)05:06
SpeedEvilWill more people use the GSOC though?05:06
javispedrothat's a long story..05:07
SpeedEvilHmm - vkbds05:08
SpeedEvilOf course - now that GTK is evil...05:08
javispedroand I need to pay 40€ to claim the money prize? /me sighs05:09
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javispedroSpeedEvil: also, I do not know what the state of gtk on meego is. IIRC, csaavedra was doing that under gnome foundation money05:10
SpeedEvilI thought it was all Qt/weyland in the future.05:11
* SpeedEvil learns that the simpsons char is not called Wayland. 05:13
SpeedEvilI'd always thought he was.05:13
javispedroeither way, about Maemo on Meego, I think this will all speed up once devices are given out05:13
javispedrobut I was surprised to see noone put any gtk app on their DDP projects list.05:13
javispedromaybe they all have since realized it is not as easy as it sounds..05:14
SpeedEviljavispedro: For DDP, it's pretty much a killer, I'd think.05:14
SpeedEviljavispedro: Platform apps - like mine - were heavily deprecated.05:14
SpeedEvilIndeed - much of the stuff I proposed was even against the terms of the NDA.05:14
SpeedEvilAs I understand it.05:14
SpeedEvilIt was very much an 'apps, apps, apps' type of process, with a few people leaking round the edges.05:15
javispedrohave to say that I would have given you a device -- at the final batchs there's people with way less of a resume that have been approved.05:15
SpeedEvilI haven't been active at all in the meego side.05:16
SpeedEvilAnd to be fair - I have absolutely no hope of coding a Qt app as my skills are at the moment. I'd have to learn.05:16
SpeedEvilI have touched GTK in the past, but it was trivial modifications - adding a few buttons - to an existing interface.05:16
javispedro(note: by resume I mean maemo contribution history :) )05:17
SpeedEvilI can only hope there are further rounds.05:17
SpeedEvilI want to get some apps out. I suspect I've instigated a few apps, but that's even harder to track. :)05:17
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, I suspect Quim may not have recognized your name.05:18
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, QML05:19
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, he's not on IRC, so.05:19
SpeedEvilAnd yes - I know QML.05:19
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately I didn't think to prod him about it. :\05:19
SpeedEvilI needed to write up what I'd done anyway.05:19
SpeedEvilMaking it hard to motivate myself towards platform documentation, for obvious reasons. :/05:20
javispedroSpeedEvil: did qgil send you an email with the reasons, btw?05:20
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, it's never too late, he can handle outside cases afaik05:20
MohammadAG <-- also, where tf are the new images05:21
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SpeedEvilI got a generic rejection letter, then I basically got 'out of scope, and history of developing apps was not there' or similar.05:21
SpeedEvilWhen I pinged about if my updated application had been looked at if that was possible.05:21
javispedrobtw, some other thing I ponder now is whether Launchpaders will be also be the sent the promised free WP7 dev phone?05:23
javispedros/be also be the sent/also be sent/05:23
infobotjavispedro meant: btw, some other thing I ponder now is whether Launchpaders will also be sent the promised free WP7 dev phone?05:23
SpeedEvilInteresting question.05:23
SpeedEvil'thank you for my wp7 phone, I put meego on it kthxby'05:24
SpeedEvilI suspect a lot of people will be trying that.05:24
javispedroor viceversa =)05:24
ieatlintyou probably will get the free phone05:24
SpeedEvilTriple-boot wp7 meego/maemo05:24
SpeedEvilAt this point harmattan-on-n900 would be a great leap forward.05:25
javispedroyou will have the option to exchange the n950 for the wp7 device05:25
SpeedEvil(in terms of a dev pool)05:26
javispedroin a few months, after Elop has had the chance to fiddle with the harmattan updates development process.05:26
javispedroand everyone's n950 has been either bricked or turned into an useless aegis-enabled zombie.05:26
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SpeedEvilThough I guess anyone that could officially code it is not actually at nokia anymore.05:27
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SpeedEvilIt'd be interesting to see what the meego/harmattan/kernel/... people graphs look like over time.05:28
GeneralAntillesI was thinking about some ad videos for the N9.05:28
javispedroI keep hearing that05:28
javispedroso, how many meegoers have been fired from nokia?05:28
GeneralAntillesIt'd be funny to do some side-by-sides of the N9-WP7 and the N9-Harmattan doing various tasks.05:28
DocScrutinizerPM on tmo:05:28
GeneralAntillesWith the first failing miserably.05:28
DocScrutinizersomeone said that there is a newer version of pulse audio, its pulse audio 43.05:28
DocScrutinizerso is it ok to update to that ? is it official ?05:28
DocScrutinizerand how can i know my current pulse audio version ?05:28
DocScrutinizerto ME!! LOL!05:28
MohammadAGyou got that too?05:29
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DocScrutinizerYOU TOO?05:29
MohammadAGcan you take a look at THIS ?05:30
MohammadAGif you can't read arabic this means that there is a newer version of pulse audio, its pulse audio 43.05:30
MohammadAGso is it ok to update to that ? is it official ?05:30
MohammadAGand how can i know my current pulse audio version ?05:30
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DocScrutinizera pretty funny guy obviously05:31
ieatlintwhat is the current version of the n950 fw as reported when *#0000# is dialed?05:31
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MohammadAG0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5 looks like it's 43 to me05:31
ieatlintand does the ovi/nokia store work on it, or is it just the placehold?05:31
MohammadAGieatlint, something 22-605:31
DocScrutinizerieatlint: the same as the one in the name of one-click-flasher05:31
MohammadAGComing soon05:31
ieatlintcool, thx05:32
javispedroMohammadAG: answer: "Yes, it's very easy to install. You need to synchronize the activation circuitry of the plasma injectors, and when the warp coil destabilizes the strength of the plasma injectors, increase the fluctuation of the dysfunctional audio processor."05:32
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, remember mobile4arab?05:32
GeneralAntillesCan you work thetans in there somewhere?05:32
MohammadAGthe guys who watermarked our hostmode images05:33
MohammadAGthe "THIS" link points to them05:33
MohammadAGstamped mobile4arab and posted them as exclusives on the next page05:33
MohammadAGlemme test my googling skills05:34
MohammadAGfound it05:35
DocScrutinizerI feel like sitting here since ~1week05:35
MohammadAGand the post afterwards05:35
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, dah fuck time is it over there?05:36
* javispedro should go -- gnite!05:36
MohammadAGjavispedro, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO05:36
MohammadAGdon't leave us!05:36
javispedrolet's try some n950-sleep05:36
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, dah fuck time is it there?!05:36
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, good luck tomorrow. :)05:36
MohammadAGyou'll miss out on some pulseaudio fun05:36
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, that's awesome.05:36
MohammadAGgood luck? exams or something?05:36
javispedroyes, carrier interaction exam.05:37
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, 5:36, need to be up at 905:37
MohammadAGgood luck javispedro :)05:37
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, bed. now.05:37
* javispedro concurs05:37
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, naw but I don't wanna05:37
GeneralAntillesWell, fine then.05:38
GeneralAntillesBut don't complain when you're sleepy tomorrow. :P05:38
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* SpeedEvil ponders if to go to bed, or to search a couple of thousand pages of PDFs of mind-numbingly-dull psuedo-legislation.05:38
MohammadAGnice way of distributing pulseaudio packages, mediafire05:38
javispedrois that a virus? it better be!05:39
MohammadAGjavispedro, it's what I got through PM :P05:39
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, bed.05:39
MohammadAGa rar containing like 15 PA packages05:39
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MohammadAGno sources, of course05:39
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javispedroMohammadAG: tell him that package is TEH SHIT. Attach new pulseaudio version v2011 with your choice of bricking postinst.05:40
* SpeedEvil looks at the two devices he has without source that makes him unhappy.05:40
MohammadAGpfft, v2012 ftw05:40
MohammadAG if anyone feels like google translating the page05:40
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: install aegis!05:41
javispedrowe could create a version of pulseaudio that replaces every stream with a predefined sound effect.05:42
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DocScrutinizerTHE fart app05:42
SpeedEvilI want voice effects on calls.05:42
SpeedEvilAnd a soundboard.05:42
MohammadAGcause the N900 runs so smoothly during a call05:42
javispedro"Forum Maemo & MeeGo > Department of programs and applications"05:42
javispedrofine translation I bet.05:43
MohammadAGI want amplifier effects in calls05:43
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javispedroMohammadAG: this pulseaudio is the one you built with the pr1.2/3 patches before official release I bet05:43
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DocScrutinizerI wonder why I know this agogdata name05:43
MohammadAGjavispedro, brings back memories05:44
javispedromy stock PR1.3 pulse is already v43, so installing this random version will at most unprelink the pulse binaries, thereby slightly slowding down device startup.05:45
DocScrutinizeranybody an idea why I can log in to 950 via LAN, but not from outside via NAT, shows prompt for password but refuses log in - password been correct though05:48
ieatlintsyslog say anything?05:48
ieatlinti've logged in via wifi and usb/lan05:49
ieatlintno issues05:49
DocScrutinizermy router's FW log shows the conection ends at correct IP05:49
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DocScrutinizerhow could N950 sshd tell apart a LAN login from an externally-originated one that goes thru NAT? Wrong RDNS or sth?05:51
SpeedEvilDoes ssh complain in anyway?05:51
ieatlintevery now and then the touchscreen seems to get really messed up, detecting presses in random places05:51
ieatlintseems to happen more when usb plugged in05:51
DocScrutinizerieatlint: 950?05:52
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: to recap on my earlier comment - sure it's the right device? :)05:52
ieatlintwith harmattan05:52
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: FW log says it's the right device, yes05:52
DocScrutinizerieatlint: same here05:53
SpeedEvilFrom the same source device?05:53
DocScrutinizerieatlint: I found it gets better when you hold the device with th other hand05:53
DocScrutinizeraaaah, alow-hosts05:54
SpeedEvilDoes the headset worn on the body work as a 'ground'?05:54
DocScrutinizermaybe not in the local netmask05:54
ieatlintyeah, i don't get it... it's unusable when usb is plugged in pretty much05:55
MohammadAGUSB networking I'd guess05:55
DocScrutinizerI gather that's some sort of interference05:55
MohammadAGtry unloading g_nokia.ko05:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: go to sleep05:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: we're talking about touchscreen05:56
ieatlintyeah, when you plug the phone into usb (computer, not tested with wall charger), it gets very weird05:57
DocScrutinizerwallcharger here, same issue05:57
MohammadAGoh dear05:57
javispedroelectrocution danger, will robinson!05:57
MohammadAGcapacitive + charger parts not covered well = that05:57
DocScrutinizerin the settings menu I wasn't able to select a menu entry05:57
* javispedro waits for n950 to make engadget front page news like n900 usb port problems05:58
MohammadAGI'm surprised, Nokia had experience with c-ts05:58
MohammadAGX6, N8 etc05:58
MohammadAGcapacitive ts05:59
DocScrutinizerbtw seems I've seen a ref to Atmel related ts05:59
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, can I have ssh access tomorrow?05:59
ieatlintwell i heard they made an error on the n806:00
MohammadAGillegal, if released, but I want to try and get the swipe UI on the N90006:00
ieatlintand that the accuracy of multitouch is extremely low06:00
MohammadAGN8 works fine for me06:00
DocScrutinizersure, if you manage to sort the >><DocScrutinizer> anybody an idea why I can log in to 950 via LAN, but not from outside via NAT, shows prompt for password but refuses log in - password been correct though<< issue06:00
MohammadAGreverse ssh DocScrutinizer ;)06:00
ieatlintyeah, the n8 works, and it's "accurate enough" for the pinch gestures06:00
ieatlintbut that you can't do much more complicated things than that06:01
ieatlintif he can't, i can probably get you a login, depending on what your intentions are :P06:02
MohammadAGscp the swipe UI06:02
MohammadAGbinaries, libs, etc06:02
ieatlintcan't you just go grab the fw image?06:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: would you know off top of your head where to check for alowed_hosts?06:02
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MohammadAGno one could mount it afaik06:03
MohammadAGalso, how does one import contacts on MeeGoCE?06:03
ieatlinti thought the flasher tool had an "extract fiasco image" option?06:03
MohammadAGyeah, that gives you a non standard rootfs.lzo file06:03
ieatlinthuh, i'll have to play with that and see06:03
javispedroali1234 already solved that, it was just non-standard block compression06:04
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: it's in ~/.ssh/06:06
SpeedEvilBut I'm not sure that's the issue.06:06
MohammadAGjavispedro, he got another image he couldn't mount afaik06:07
DocScrutinizerAllowUsers *@ *@ *@ *@
DocScrutinizerhow bad is THAT06:07
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javispedroMohammadAG: I think he did, as that's how that Hurrian guy uselessly bricked his n900.06:07
ds3you don't trust the link address (169.169.x.x)?06:07
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ieatlintDocScrutinizer: that makes sense actually06:07
DocScrutinizerthat is BS actually06:08
DocScrutinizera lot of LANs are 192.168.1.x or .2.x06:08
ieatlintds3: anyone who isn't able to actually run a network with ip address assignments shouldn't be developing on this phone :P06:08
MohammadAGjavispedro, he flashed the image?06:08
javispedrothat's captured by the mask?06:08
javispedroMohammadAG: yes.06:08
* MohammadAG facepalms06:08
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: the /16 means only match the 192.168 part06:08
MohammadAGshouldn't you be in bed javispedro ?06:08
DocScrutinizerooh I see06:08
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ieatlintthe list of hosts match all home address ones except the 16906:09
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ok, you can have ssh access06:10
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DocScrutinizeranybody knows about the >>port 22<< parameter? is it >>port 22, 666<< or >>port 22 666<< or >>port 22\nport666<< ?06:12
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SpeedEvilman sshd_config - ListenAddress06:13
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, tomorrow please, need to sleep in a bit06:13
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: neither06:13
ieatlintit's multiple lines06:14
SpeedEvil             local addresses.  Multiple ListenAddress options are permitted.06:14
MohammadAGI'm leaving for a long trip, taking the other N900 with MeeGoCE on it06:14
ieatlintso you do "Port 22" and then another line with "Port 666"06:14
DocScrutinizer>>port 22\nport666<<06:14
Dhraakellianso how is MeeGoCE for daily use?06:14
MohammadAGthat's what I'm aiming to find out06:14
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: correct06:15
ieatlintwhee, turbulence06:15
MohammadAGSMS notifications are fun06:15
DhraakellianI loaded it up on a microSD card and wasn't impressed *quite* enough to keep using it06:15
Dhraakellianbut it did look greatly improved06:15
Dhraakellianjust from a casual poking-around standpoint06:15
MohammadAGwell, imported all my contacts06:16
MohammadAGnice script alterego :)06:16
MohammadAGand lcuk06:16
Dhraakellian(of course, it doesn't help that my antenna connections are rubbish)06:16
* Dhraakellian wonders if he dares open up his n900 to see if there's an easy fix06:16
ieatlintjust go buy a nokla n90006:17
Dhraakellianshould probably grab a cheap GSM Android phone first, just so that I'm not without a phone06:17
Dhraakellianactually, I am without a phone right now, since I'm getting the simcard errors every time06:17
Dhraakellianieatlint: running meamo5?06:18
ieatlinti don't know what they call the os06:18
DhraakellianNokla Meamo?06:19
* Dhraakellian guesses poorly-ported Android?06:20
MohammadAGalterego, I tried to import contacts, it said saved 235 contacts, but phone and contacts are empty06:21
ieatlintMohammadAG: btw06:21
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divanMorning. Did anyone installed Meego CE to the eMMC on N900? I follow these instructions but the script doesn't work for me on Ubunut 10.10.06:30
hiemanshudivan: what is the error?06:31
divanFirst of all, it ignores kernel command line parameter, second, it looks for file initrd-n900 (which I don't have), and as a result it cannot bring up usb0 interface. I don't mention bugs with NetworkManager detect/stop functionality.06:32
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divanDo I need to use Rescure Initrd to install Meego CE?06:36
infobotdivan meant: Do I need to use Rescue Initrd to install Meego CE?06:36
hiemanshudivan: this is not the right channel, lets talk in #meego-arm06:36
divanhanspeter, yep, I've asked there.06:37
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ieatlintso the maemo/n900 flash utility doesn't work with meego/harmatan, right?06:59
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DocScrutinizerthat's what I think at least07:08
ieatlintah, looks like there is a flasher for the n9/50 on nokia's site here
hiemanshuand any idea where the images are?07:12
ieatlinti think there's just the one public image dated 22-607:12
ieatlint(which btw is a date, it should be week number - day of week)07:13
ieatlint(counted 1-7)07:13
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krayonDocScrutinizer: Did you end up getting an N950?08:41
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paviDocScrutinizer, I tried the cable with my netbook running sid , it works :D .09:01
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divanDocScrutinizer, talking about fiasco image, should I create it by myself? I see different tutorials in the net, not sure what to choose.09:22
divanAny good how-to on this topic?09:22
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Sicelonice pavi :)09:55
paviSicelo, I am thinking that my desktop which has Linux Mint Debian edition has some broken USB drivers .09:56
paviI kind of removed mint repo and upgraded stuff on it . it had some package conflits09:56
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Siceloquestion: if i install h-e-n package, do i still need to get anything else to make it work? (reason for asking is because i don't have the cable for it atm, so i can't test.. but will have use for it soon as i have cable with me)10:40
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hiemanshuStatus is still New Order :(10:52
hiemanshulooks like they are shipping today though10:53
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RST38hmoo ladies and gentlemen10:56
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RST38hhiemanshu: what is the URL to check?10:57
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hiemanshuRST38h: it should change from new orders to something different10:58
hiemanshuand you will have an email too10:58
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RST38hhiemanshu: thanks!11:03
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JaffaMorning, all11:29
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khertanYour order has been sent11:46
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Hurrianah, how i love the 5 second boot time11:54
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tackatwe have a Qt Components Version of Marble now in the works:
Hurrianhmm, i was playing with a friend's Nokia 8800 Arte12:11
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Hurrianit shows you a clock if you double-tap the screen when locked12:12
hiemanshukhertan: what was your order number?12:13
khertanhiemanshu, i didn't got an tracking number yet12:15
hiemanshukhertan: the order number, the OID- something number12:15
hiemanshukhertan: tell me the last 3 digits please :)12:15
khertanah this is one :)12:15
hiemanshu:( I am 88712:16
hiemanshumore than a 100 away :( :( :(12:16
khertanhiemanshu, i think there are packaging all device ... and sent seems to be a 5 oclock fi time12:17
khertanso there is time to package some more device12:17
hiemanshukhertan: well yeah, but I am hoping mine goes through today12:17
hiemanshuor I will shoot myself waiting :(12:17
cpscottihiemanshu, khertan  775 here..12:18
hiemanshucpscotti: sent?12:18
cpscottino tracking number too12:19
hiemanshuwell you should get an email telling sent12:19
cpscottiwell.. but we have a whole week coming..12:19
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hiemanshuand how hard is it to pack say 1000 phones a day, shouldn't take more than 3-5 mins to pack one :/12:19
cpscottiso.. now.. changing subjects.. chaps.. I got a problem.. My notebook is dying (like.. for real).. Any recommendations? Is a thinkpad that good?12:20
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hiemanshuyeah TP is the way to go for linux12:20
cpscottihiemanshu, that's what I was expecting.. just wanted to b sure :D12:21
hiemanshuheh yeah12:21
cpscottithe shit is.. they take 2 weeks to ship that.. the bastards12:21
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lardmanany dhl news?12:38
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hiemanshulardman: yours was sent?12:40
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hiemanshucpscotti: more reports of it being shipped or people getting it12:41
hiemanshucpscotti: I suddenly have the need to die :/12:42
hiemanshucpscotti: and some with 92x got the sent email :/12:42
infobothiemanshu meant: cpscotti: and someone with 92x got the sent email :/12:43
cpscottiI didn't get the "sent" e-mail12:43
cpscottinot yet12:43
cpscotti775 here..12:43
hiemanshuwell lets wait12:43
hiemanshuyeah, I hope they send it today, or somebody is gonna get a hurt real bad12:43
lardmanhiemanshu: I've not received a package nor a dhl email, so I guess not12:44
cpscottiI'm waiting patiently.. I think...12:44
hiemanshulardman: did you get the 'Your order has been sent' email ?12:44
cpscottihiemanshu, lol!12:44
lardmanhiemanshu: no12:44
hiemanshucpscotti: ?12:44
hiemanshulardman: then wait till they send it12:44
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cpscottihiemanshu, "somebody is gonna get hurt real bad"12:45
hiemanshulardman: you will get a sent email too12:45
hiemanshucpscotti: heard of russel peters?12:45
cpscottiwho's that?12:45
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lardmanwould be interesting to see a break down of who's received what12:45
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rcgwhat was the last thing i send in here?12:46
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rcg(11:44:47 AM) rcg: ehm.. just a little heads up.. seems like Druid23 messed up the wiki page:
rcg(11:45:20 AM) rcg: messed up as in kinda reverted to a very old state12:47
rcg(11:46:06 AM) rcg: should we just revert his change?12:47
cpscottihiemanshu, who's that?12:47
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rcgjust in case i didn't sent it correctly before i got disconnected12:48
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hiemanshucpscotti: a comedian12:48
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rcgalright Vitaminj fixed it already12:50
cpscottihiemanshu, haheah lol!12:51
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hiemanshucpscotti: listen to the whole thing :P12:51
lcuklardman, same here12:52
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* cpscotti watching.. :d12:53
lardmanlcuk: :(12:53
hiemanshucpscotti: N950 email received and device ordered 7th (OID-052796). Sent on 11th (AM)12:54
lcuklardman, it should be sent soon :D12:54
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hiemanshufrom the wiki12:54
hiemanshulcuk: I hope12:54
hiemanshubecause they are sending random OIDs12:54
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cpscottihiemanshu, shiiet..12:55
lardmanwell let's just hope they're in gear and will send a tranche today12:55
cpscottihiemanshu, got to the "somebody's gonna get hurt real bad" part..12:56
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hiemanshucpscotti: and!/seiflotfy/status/9035647542323609912:59
cpscottihiemanshu, stop this! hehe.. is that torture of some kind? lol13:00
hiemanshuyup :P13:01
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cpscottihiemanshu, lol! anyway.. I have faith I'll see it sometime this week.. (humm.. !?!?faith!?!?.. am I getting religious about this thing..  geez!)13:03
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hiemanshucpscotti: I want it before friday to show off at the Qt meetup13:04
hiemanshucpscotti: so if its not sent today or maybe tomorrow, there is a good chance I wont see it until the next week :(13:04
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cpscottihiemanshu, faith man! faith! :P13:07
hiemanshucpscotti: lol, well I am going to see if I can sleep for a bit, head hurts :(13:07
cpscottihiemanshu,  hangover? or too much F5ing?13:10
hiemanshucpscotti: both13:10
cpscottihaha.. join the club!13:11
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hiemanshuwell I slept after being up for over 36 hours, that adds to the list too13:11
cityLightsany sed guru in the house?13:12
hiemanshucityLights: just ask, if someone knows the answer, they'll answer13:13
cpscottihiemanshu, gosh.. that's a nice weekend! enough pizza?13:14
hiemanshucpscotti: well no pizza, but a lot of other stuff, and a nice sunday morning trek13:14
cpscotticityLights, try awk it's a lot more "readable"13:14
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cityLightshi all13:32
cityLights ip route list  |sed 's/.*dev \([a-z]\+[0-9]\+\).*$/\1/'13:32
cityLightsis giving me two lines, how to get only one?13:32
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cehtehwhich 2?13:33
bindi_ive got cssu, and when using camera, it says memory is full13:33
bindi_just reflashed and installed cssu13:33
bindi_26G free on internal13:34
cityLightscehteh: I got two lines with eth013:34
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cityLightsI can explian why13:34
cityLightsI got two defaults with difrrent metric13:34
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cityLightsany way , I can pipe and get one, but is there a sed wt?13:35
cehtehi am not logged in to my device but does it really do that? ..13:35
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cehteh| head -113:35
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cityLightsI was looking for the sed way13:35
cehtehsome sed or awk way prolly too13:35
cehtehactually learning awk would make this easiers :)13:35
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cityLightsthis is to fix xen's bridge script13:36
cehtehip route list  | awk '/default/{print $5; exit(0);}'13:37
cehtehdoes that work?13:37
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cehtehbindi_: configured to save pics to µSD?13:39
cehtehor do you have usb still plugged in and in storage mode?13:39
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* SpeedEvil completes a nokia survey he has been sent about his current phone.14:04
SpeedEvilFor all the good it'll do.14:04
cehteh[ ] Will you buy a WP7 Phone14:05
SpeedEvilThough it also mentioned lenovo as a handset maker.14:05
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SpeedEvilOf the future phone.14:05
SpeedEvilI suppose they are positioned well for it.14:05
cehtehhaha "anything but nokia" :P14:06
SpeedEvilThey already make rectangular black things.14:06
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cehtehwhen my n900 breaks, i'll buy the next open plattfrom gnu/linux based phone ... maybe i have a few vendors on my blacklist (sony, apple, microsoft) but i dont expect those to come out with an open platform anyways14:07
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cehtehi'd like if samsung goes the open way, i thing they would be welcome by the community14:08
cehtehbut iff this certainly takes years for a product14:09
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cehtehhow long did maemo evolve before the n900? 5, 6, 7 ..? years?14:09
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bindi_cehteh: how to check?14:27
bindi_the settings doesnt cover that14:27
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cehtehyes you can select where to store on the camera app .. settings or the 'memory card' icon on the lower lefr14:29
cehtehalso when/while usb is plugged in in storage mode, the drives are unmounted at the device and not available14:30
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hiemanshucpscotti: anything yet for ya?14:33
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cpscottihiemanshu, nope14:33
hiemanshucpscotti: gah, ok :(14:34
bindi_cehteh: it said root volume14:34
bindi_i changed it to internal memory14:34
bindi_whats the difference14:34
cehtehwoot it can write to root?14:35
cehtehthats really bad14:35
cehtehif root becomes full, then your device will become unreliable14:35
cehtehif you have already some pictures stored there, better move them out of the way14:35
cehteh(i dont know that this even works)14:36
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Hurriancehteh, full root isnt much of a problem14:38
Hurrianon UBIFS14:39
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cehtehHurrian: how that? if the OS wants to store something there and this fails then things get hairy14:39
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Hurriancehteh, logs in /var are compressed because UBIFS14:39
Hurrianlinux doesnt panic on full root anywat14:40
Hurrianon a side note, the n900's rootfs is lzo compressed right?14:40
SpeedEvilLinux doesn't - which doesn't make any difffernecte if the stach you're using over it fall over.14:40
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Hurrianit's not like we're swapping on root, in fact i got the N900 to start on a read-only file system once14:41
Hurrianmostly because of a broken UBIFS, but my point stands14:41
Hurrianthe N900 will still work with a full root, you may not be able to write new files though14:41
cehtehHurrian: i meant the OS/installation becomes unreliable, not the kernel or filesystem per se14:42
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Hurrianhowever, most of everything you download for apps writes to emmc, no problem there14:42
Hurrianhmm, wonder if we can recompress the N900's rootfs in zlib14:42
cehtehif apt-get cant even create its lockfiles for example (are these on /?)14:42
Hurriancehteh, that's for debian-apt14:43
Hurrianfapman works fine14:43
cehtehwell since 1.2 and 'normal' use, full rootfs is not a problem anymore14:43
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cehtehbut bugs, like writing pictures to root may pose problems14:43
Hurriandidnt know that camera-ui even allowed that14:44
cehtehHurrian: well even startup may (i dont know for sure) writes data to root, nologin, lockfiles, fsck marker, and so on14:44
cehtehif that fails then the devices doesnt boot correctly .. either fatally or just something becomes unreliable14:45
Hurriancehteh, isn't the N900's fstab 0 0 at the end?14:45
Hurrianfsck marker would only be for /home14:45
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Hurriananyways, doesnt ubifs not come with a fsck tool?14:46
cehtehyeah that was only an example .. there are other things on a 'normal' linux system which require a writeable root14:46
cehtehbut most/all of this things can be turned off/ relocated14:46
cehtehand i dont know how much maemo5 does this on the n90014:46
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Hurriancehteh, /dev/sda3 / ext4 ro 0 014:48
Hurrianfastest boots ever14:48
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Hurriantmp on ram, /home and /usr on separate drives14:48
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hiemanshucpscotti: 2 hours to the end of the day :/15:02
cpscottihiemanshu, you mean.. in helsinki?15:03
hiemanshucpscotti: yeah15:03
cpscottihiemanshu, hope!15:04
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khertanwe want to believe15:05
hiemanshukhertan: yours was sent, so STFU :P15:05
khertanyeah but no tracking number ... and didn't expect dhl to found my little town before next week :)15:06
hiemanshuwell tracking number will come at the end of the day really15:06
khertani know15:06
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hiemanshubut atleast the sticker is with your name has been printed15:07
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cehtehand they'll drop it by parchute?15:07
khertani just hope they will not use iphone gps ... didn't found my town :)15:09
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cehtehwhere do you live? .fr  we have someone from martinique with a .fr domain, bit off the mainland :P15:09
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lardmanhmm, still no notifications :(15:13
* lardman goes to cry into a sandwich15:13
khertancehteh, north of paris ... 77km15:13
hiemanshulardman: same here, the shipping is fucked up :(15:13
khertanbut in very small town ;)15:14
cehtehwell .. looks still central15:14
hiemanshuI ordered on thursday, and it and its monday, for fucks sake, send my device alreadyh15:14
khertancehteh, yeah ... but tnt and dhl never deliver thing in time15:14
cehtehi am in karlsruhe 15km away from the french border .. and over there on the vosges are really small and hardly reachable towns15:14
khertancehteh, last time tnt said that address didn't exist15:15
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khertancehteh, you can say it s hardly reachable ... mine town isn't ...15:15
cehtehsome valleys are better reachable from the german side than from france :P15:15
hiemanshukhertan: in the order page, what does your order status show up as?15:16
khertangermany have this days a better budget than us15:16
khertanwhich wasn't the case 10 years ago15:16
khertanhiemanshu, let me check15:17
* khertan hate OBS and RPM15:17
khertanDevice Sent to Customer15:17
khertanhiemanshu, ^15:17
hiemanshukhertan: ok thanks15:18
khertanerror: Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found: ... *.pyo <<<< of course dubfull packaging tool it s not suppose to be installed15:18
cehteh"device lost while shipping" :)15:18
khertancehteh, my last 2 tnt delivery was lost15:19
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lardmanmine says "New Order"15:23
lcuklardman, which page shows the order15:23
lcukor is that the email15:23
lardmanthe order page15:23
lardmanclick on orders15:24
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lardman I guess15:24
MohammadAGNew order here too15:24
CaCO3my order page also sais "new order", since last thurstday when I oredered it15:24
lcuksame here15:25
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hiemanshusame here15:25
hiemanshuI wanna shoot the nokia shipping dept.15:26
lardmanmore interesting would be to know whether that changes to anything else15:26
lardmanor if it just vanishes once it's been shipped15:26
hiemanshuchanged to 'Device Sent to Customer'15:26
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CaCO3well, as we get it for free, i don't want to make pressure15:29
CaCO3I see it as good will of nokia15:29
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MohammadAGwould be fun if it changed to "Difficulties while processing your payment"15:30
* Jaffa wants MOAR SOFTWAREZ :-p15:31
JaffaHurry up & get your devices.15:31
MohammadAGyeah, totally our fault15:31
CaCO3I am more disapinted that there is not yet a properly set up building system :(15:31
hiemanshuJaffa: make nokia send us our devices soon15:31
CaCO3I already tried to pack/build packages, but without some how to explanations I just got stock15:32
JaffaCaCO3: and
CaCO3well, it nowhere explains how to pack the *.tar.gz and the debian.tar.gz15:33
JaffaCaCO3: :-p15:33
Macergoogle+ is actually... kind of nice15:34
JaffaCaCO3: (cos I had the same problem, I wheeled out an updated mud)15:34
Maceralthough i hate the way it does that whole blacked out video/photo thing like fb decided to do15:34
CaCO3and my dsc files seem to be wrong, at least the builder sais always architecture: excluded)15:34
JaffaCaCO3: Let mud2 create your .dsc for you, if you're using Qt Creator15:34
CaCO3well, after 2 days of consulting google I gave up15:34
Macerand i am curious how fb isn't suing the hell out of them for a pretty obvious clone of fb :)15:34
CaCO3I am waiting until the system is set up and documented15:34
CaCO3Jaffa: I got very confused about suse, spec and so on15:35
CaCO3I am working on a debian sytsem15:35
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CaCO3I am packing python projects, so qt creator cant handle them, and the other ones are ports15:36
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khertanWhouhou !!! Pyflakes packages15:37
khertanWhouhou !!! Pyflakes packaged ... what a pain to package a simple package with obs15:38
CaCO3I havent even figured out yet which architecture the N9* will use. Is it armv8el or something 715:38
khertanundocumented errors and full of googling to avoid15:38
HurrianCaCO3 - armv7l15:38
khertanCaCO3, for the moment ... i didn't see any target for harmattan on the meego community obs15:38
CaCO3thys why I am confused...15:39
khertan <<< some have a harmattan repository15:39
Hurrianto be exact, armv7tnhl15:39
CaCO3does mud2 work in scratchbox?15:39
Hurriant - thumbee , n - neon , h - hardfp , l - little endian15:40
CaCO3I asked rzr yesterday for some hints, but he didnt want to help or didnt see my request :(15:40
rzrsorry guys i was afk15:40
CaCO3in my OBS, I cant even add the harmattan repo or something with armv7el15:41
rzrCaCO3: ping me again in a couple of hours, else i did rtfm you can try to branch my git15:41
Jaffakhertan: <- how to enable Harmattan COBS target whilst it's not visible yet15:42
CaCO3yea, thanks. maybe later, i am just heading off to a job interview15:42
khertanJaffa, thx you jaffa15:42
Jaffakhertan: CaCO3: Follow the threads " in the Nokia N9" and "Qt Creator, debian_harmattan and Scratchbox"15:42
CaCO3ok, thanks, I will have another look on it later15:43
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hiemanshukhertan: did you get an email from DHL?15:45
khertanhiemanshu, not yet ... will probably come soon15:45
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* CaCO3 is heading off15:49
ruskiehmm has anyone tried updating telepathy with a more recent release?15:49
ruskieon the n90015:49
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khertanhiemanshu, i got the tracking number15:52
khertanNo result found for your DHL query. Please try again.15:52
khertanlol already lost ? :)15:53
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Jaffakhertan: Takes them a while.15:53
khertanJaffa, yeah i know just joking :)15:53
khertanPREMIUM Service .... nice for a free device ...15:54
khertanthx nokia15:54
khertanJaffa, maybe you can help me15:55
khertanJaffa, what excluded really mean in obs ? :)15:55
Jaffakhertan: Be quick - got a meeting in a minute15:55
khertanyep no problem i m learning packaging for meego and harmattan15:55
Jaffakhertan: "Excluded" means the target matching functionality didn't find the necessary trigger file. For example, I've configured my home project to build against MeeGo 1.2, but Attitude is "excluded" becaused it doesn't have a .spec file.15:56
khertanok this mean i need a spec file, and a dsc to target meego and harmattan. thx15:56
khertanhave a good meeting :)15:56
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khertan%define _unpackaged_files_terminate_build 0   <<< the magic define to be able to build python package with python setup.py16:16
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hiemanshukhertan: FU, still new order here :( :(16:30
hiemanshuwell nothing today then :(16:31
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rm_workhiemanshu: same :(16:44
rm_workstill "New Order" for me :(16:45
rm_workdid more people actually get theirs shipped today?16:45
hiemanshurm_work: well fucking nokia, I am not going to develop anything for them now, untill N9 releases and its 2 months old16:45
hiemanshurm_work: yes, like khertan16:45
hiemanshuand a few more16:45
cpscottihiemanshu, god! this is getting bad...16:45
hiemanshucpscotti: yeah, and well its almost the end of the day there in .fi16:46
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deimosrm_work, me too since 7 jul :(16:46
khertanrm_work, yep i got it shipped today and with tracking number16:46
rm_workpeople really getting pissed off because Nokia is taking a while to loan them a device, for free? :/16:46
cpscottihiemanshu, I see the day tomorrow taking the same course it did today.. lots of hope in the beginning and then hate at the end16:46
hiemanshuand they said they will ship within one business day16:46
nmjnbHi everyone. I've got some trouble with my N900, it won't connect to Nokia Ovi Suite.16:46
deimoskhertan, when you made the order ?16:46
khertan7 jully 12h27 fi time16:47
nmjnbI didn't need it before but recently I tried the "Kernel Power" kernel, and now I'm trying to reverse it without luck.16:47
rm_workseems a little odd, but i guess they should expect that... when you make people feel entitled to something, they get pissed off when you are slow at providing it, even when you didn't have to provide it in the first place and are doing them a favor <_<16:48
nmjnbSo I was thinking of flashing the OS16:48
rm_workit's not like we're paying them a bunch of money16:48
khertanrm_work, it s human16:48
hiemanshurm_work: well esp when a big company like nokia takes a whole fucking week to ship something16:48
hiemanshukhertan: they cant handle 500 orders in one day?16:48
rm_workyou made the order on thursday, no?16:49
khertanrm_work, and this prove that we have interest in there device16:49
hiemanshurm_work: yes16:49
rm_workthat means there's only been 2-3 working days now16:49
khertanhiemanshu, probably when it s done in an office and not a the production center16:49
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khertanhiemanshu, and they probably reflash them all before packing them16:49
rm_workand they are probably not equipped for this kind of rush16:49
rm_workjust calm down and give them some credit for doing this program in the first place16:49
khertanit s come from the 5th floor16:49
rm_workand wait :P16:50
hiemanshurm_work: thats stupid, if they weren't equipped for it, they shouldn't have let me order it16:50
fiferboyrm_work: New Order for me too16:50
fiferboyMaybe they're doing North America last?16:50
rm_worki'm excited, and i'm disappointed it's not shipping yet, but i don't feel like i have a right to get pissed at them for it :/16:50
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rm_workthey're doing me a favor, for free, because they decided to16:50
khertanyou didn't order it ... you ask  it :) they give it free remember16:50
rm_workand quim and others have put in a LOT of work16:50
nmjnbWhat are you all waiting for? demo samples of the N950?16:51
hiemanshurm_work: we are doing them a favour too for free16:51
rm_workI don't look at it that way, so much16:51
rm_worki guess if you were JUST developing because you want to help them?16:51
hiemanshurm_work: we shouldn't have to fix stuff the lazy coders there forget to add16:51
hiemanshubut its just me16:51
rm_workbut i'm developing because i want to use this phone and make it the best experience for me and others16:51
hiemanshuI am pissed for multiple reasons, plus I have a hangover :P16:52
rm_workadmittedly, their development department is sometimes frustrating, but honestly they're doing better than a lot of other companies at open-sourcing at least16:52
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rm_workand they're being strangled at the corporate level at the same time and fighting just to exist16:53
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khertanthe thing that pissed me off is the qml switch16:53
hiemanshukhertan: do you think they will manually flash images? really?16:54
hiemanshuI would hire interns to do that kind of work, packaging/flashing, etc16:54
khertanhiemanshu, they do it manually before n900 loan at maemo summit in 2009 :)16:54
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rzrhi guerby16:55
khertanask to tekojo ... :)16:55
rm_workyeah it was ridiculous16:55
hiemanshuMEH, its the end of the day in .fi, and this is pissing off really, I would expect a company like Nokia to be really fast16:55
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rzrguerby:  u talked about compilefarms  last time we met at hsf, do they support scratchbox ?16:56
GAN900ieatlint, build number, not day of the week.16:58
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hiemanshuGAN900: shipped yet?17:00
achiparm_work: khertan: hiemanshu: guys, note that the DDP is a bit different channel than retail, so there is a lot more overhead. Plus is not the only channel (see launchpad, Qt Ambassadors, etc), so there are actually a fair number of people to be dealt with17:00
frals15:45:21 < hiemanshu> rm_work: well fucking nokia, I am not going to develop anything for them now, untill N9 releases and its 2 months old17:00
hiemanshufrals: hah :P17:00
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fralswe can forward that to the person responsible if you want17:00
hiemanshuachipa: I know, just ranting :P17:00
fralsim sure the device can go to someone who wants it instead ;)17:01
hiemanshufrals: naaah, just ranting :P17:01
achipafrals: don't need to, I'm right here :)17:01
fralsachipa: ^^17:01
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khertanachipa, this is why i try to explain with my word :)17:01
GAN900hiemanshu, not yet.17:01
GAN900khertan, not fair, my order was placed at 12:04 Finnish time!17:02
hiemanshuGAN900: its completely random, someone who ordered much later than me got their shipped17:02
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hiemanshuachipa: are the devices flashed manually before being sent?17:02
khertanGAN900, when you have a ton of things to send, you didn't care about order ... you try to send the whole things as fast as possible17:03
GAN900I'm still convinced it's just one unpaid summer intern.17:03
hiemanshuGAN900: working part-time :P17:03
khertanGAN900, it s fair for unpaid device17:03
achipahiemanshu: no, we have cyborg aliens for that purpose :)17:04
hiemanshuachipa: hah17:04
GAN900khertan, fair or not, it seems like Nokia would want to get these things out quickly.17:04
hiemanshuwell anyways, I just need the device to test what I have done so far, SDK/sbox doesn't cut it really17:05
hiemanshuachipa: ^17:05
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rm_workachipa / frals: exactly why I'm telling people to CALM THE F#*% down and be happy they're going to all this effort :P17:06
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GAN900qemu is impressively slow.17:06
achipawe're approving/sending as fast as we can, as said, the process has a bandwidth and not much we can do about it (it's as if you get into a traffic jam and say 'well just build a couple of extra lanes')17:06
hiemanshuachipa: yeah, and we are just the angry people in the jam waiting to get to work :)17:07
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GAN900Daniel Wilms and his jig just can't flash fast enough.17:07
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GAN900Remember kids, everytime you complain about the shipping delay he docks you another week number on your firmware.17:09
GAN900At least Thursday is about the cutoff for "one week"17:09
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khertanGAN900, we are the 11th jully, the deadline for submission was the 28th june, result was given few day after, ... it s less than two weeks17:10
GAN900khertan, Nokia's estimated ship date from the DDP17:10
khertanGAN900, i found that it s pretty fast for a dead plateform, dead didn't walk normally :)17:10
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pabs3does anyone know who runs ?17:11
khertanGAN900, i didn't get estimated date :)17:11
GAN900khertan, either the email or the order summary page said to expect shipment within a week.17:11
khertanGAN900, a week ... 11 - 7 - 2 day of week end ...17:12
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khertanless than a week :)17:12
lcukpabs3, sjgadsby17:13
khertanand dhl isn't better ... no estimated date ...17:13
GAN900Hopefully that means it'll ve here by Friday and not Monday17:14
khertani just hope dhl will not lost himself, or lost my precious like the two other time17:14
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hiemanshuGAN900: it said expect it to arrive by then :P17:19
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hiemanshuachipa: anyways, any idea if we will get a newer N950 image?17:28
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achipahiemanshu: newer than... ?17:34
hiemanshuachipa: the 22-6 ones that others hae17:34
achipano, that's the one for all N950s17:35
hiemanshuah ok17:35
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alteregoSo, what are the order state changes? I've still got "New Order" :)17:39
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Jaffaalterego: New order -> Device sent to customer IIRC17:41
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Jaffaalterego: Then you're in DHL land, "Received shipping information" -> "Collected" -> "With delivery courier" -> "Delivered"17:41
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alteregoProbably nothing will happen until tomorrow then17:43
* alterego waits patiently :)17:44
hiemanshualterego: yeah, waiting here too17:44
Jaffaalterego: Mine got picked up from Helsinki at 1900 Helsinki time17:44
Jaffaalterego: Although it sat for hours in "Device sent to customer"17:45
alteregoWell, we'll see.17:45
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fiferboyalterego: At least you've been acknowledged now17:54
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hiemanshucpscotti: <--- more torture :P18:02
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cpscottihiemanshu, lol! I don't wanna watch this! ughh! stopped before he opened the box.. I'll leave that as a surprise! hehe18:04
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hiemanshucpscotti: its no suprise really18:07
hiemanshucpscotti: everyone knows there is a phone and USB cable inside that :P18:07
cpscottihehe. I know.. I saw the box and everything inside at a meetup here.. but anyway..18:08
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hiemanshucpscotti: the device looks lovely, cant wait to get my hands on it :P18:11
cpscottihiemanshu, yep! same here.. but it's proving quite hard to do so.. eheh18:12
alteregofiferboy: indeed, always nice to be acknowledged ;)18:13
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hiemanshucpscotti: yeah, well there is no video of the N950 booting up, I'll make one once I get mine18:13
hiemanshucpscotti: and N900 vs N950 comparison18:13
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cpscottihiemanshu, cool.. btw anyone knows how far the beast can be overclocked up to?18:14
cpscotti(just out of curiosity)18:14
hiemanshucpscotti: overclocking is a nice way to kill your device18:15
hiemanshucpscotti: but 3630 can be OCed upto 1200 without hurting it, and around 1.6Ghz18:15
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cpscottiwell.. as far as the n900 goes, overclocking is a nice way to Rock your device18:16
cpscotti"live fast, die young"18:16
cpscottiall devices will eventually die young anyway18:16
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DocScrutinizercpscotti: to 7.75GHz18:19
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cpscottiDocScrutinizer, you're kidding right?18:20
cpscottibring the ice!18:20
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DocScrutinizernoooo, it's all true. this is a 1337 device, you can even OC to 16.31415926GHz but we don't want to make you feel bad with your lame 90018:22
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DocScrutinizerdon't you think Nokia considered which clock is the best to save them lots of repair costs during the max 2years warranty while maximizing the thrill and sales of *any* of their devices?18:23
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DocScrutinizersoo if you're so venturous then please accept you WON'T SELL YOUR DEVICE after you overclocked it, and YOU WONT GET WARRANTY REPAIR when the device breaks during the 2 years warranty time. What makes you think you are using the device so much less than the average user so you can get away with running it OCed for 2 years?18:26
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fluxso, how many broken OC devices are there around? the quoted statistics hasn't really made me a believer that it's likely to brick a device that way.18:27
fluxit seems that in about 95% of cases the reason for n900 dying is a malfunctionin usb port..18:28
DocScrutinizeror are you so convinced there'll be a better device or even just a spare N900 when your device breaks after 6 months18:28
fluxI sure hope so.18:28
fluxso I just need to be extra careful with my usb port for the next 6 months..18:30
* DocScrutinizer sels flux a 220V->300V transformer so this guy can "overclock" arbitrary appliances. Image!! OCed incandescent bulbs! Buy 40W get 100W brightness ;-P18:31
fluxdocscrutinizer, have you btw noticed that incandescent bulps are used at their ~full capacity for extended periods of time?18:31
fluxwhereas on a mobile device I hope to use the full capacity for a few seconds, or perhaps fractions of a second, at a time.18:32
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DocScrutinizernow this sentence fully qualifies you for OCing to 100GHz, next step will be infinity18:33
fluxI haven't actually OC'd my device. I'm just dubious about the scale of the bad effects it is advertised as having.18:34
infobotsomebody said omap-oc was  read that!, or and this
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DocScrutinizerthe second link should tell you enough, if you're really so scientifically touched18:36
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fluxso, it appears I've run 0.75 cpu hours a day currently. asusming it's 600MHz, at 800MHz that would be around 0.56h per day. so that 1000h hour 800MHz would be around four years.18:39
fluxsounds OK to me.18:39
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DocScrutinizerthis calculation isn't exactly based on correct assumptions: much of the CPU hours the CPU spends with polling and similar waiting for slower parts of the system. As you can't OC e.g RAM or esp MMC similar and same amount you could do with CPU, your CPU hours won't reduce liner to clock increase18:47
DocScrutinizerand you know your CPU is running at full speed during all your call times?18:49
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DocScrutinizerwhile the modem TX adds to overall heatup of device and thus is pushing CPU temp, so the degradation factor multiplies another time18:49
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DocScrutinizermaybe *you* have only 30 min cals per month, average user may have like 90min a day18:50
kerioi thought nerds didn't talk18:51
DocScrutinizerthen maybe pandora is the device for you18:51
DocScrutinizerI thought nerds watch youtube videos a lot - flash->max_cpu_clock  plus internet-download->modem_at_max18:52
keriozomg, it's really cool18:53
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DocScrutinizersame thing like a call18:53
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kerioholy shit 440€18:54
keriothat's a lot (18:55
DocScrutinizernot for a 1kg brick of platin - what are you talking about?18:56
cpscottiDocScrutinizer, I totally agree OC is a crazy thing but then again, isn't the experiment worth? I'm not saying nokia doesn't have a reason to set the clock as they do. What I'm saying is that I'm up for the adventure sometimes.18:56
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: well if you want to watch DivX formats on the phone, you need to OC, or there is a lag in the video :(18:56
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cpscottihiemanshu, haehae.. whenver u post a link it's like I already know what I'll find but I click anyway..  lol :D18:57
DocScrutinizercpscotti: fair enough, as long as you know what you're doing, are not hyping it for noobs, and agree on the don't-sell&don't_ask_for_warranty policy18:57
hiemanshucpscotti: thats love :P18:57
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: well that and dont rant about it18:58
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hiemanshucpscotti: something different
cpscottiDocScrutinizer, well.. I'd say most of my CS/hardware knowledge came from playing with something without knowing what I'm doing.. but of course accepting whatever consequences it might bring18:59
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RST38hmoo javispedro18:59
cpscottitotally agree with the don't-sell&don't_ask_for_wrrrnty18:59
filiphi :)18:59
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moo18:59
keriowhy "don't ask for warranty"? o:)18:59
cpscottibut the guys that stole my n900 will probably sell it anyway.. can't help on that19:00
filipI am an open source contributor (for example kernel support for jornada7xx), and enjoy hacking. Would you rather suggest a nokia n900 or motorola milestone?19:00
kerion900, definetely19:00
filipI am afraid of maemo being the dead end on an n900 after nokia's fail19:00
hiemanshufilip: if you ask here, N900, if you are in android forums, milestone19:01
DocScrutinizerkerio: because otherwise that'll cause what already happened: Nokia will discontinue the device due to economic disaster from RMA19:01
filipdoes maemo get any funding for development?19:01
kerioDocScrutinizer: if it already happened, what's the problem?19:01
DocScrutinizerkerio: let's just say OC gave use spare N8 for N900-repair19:01
cpscottikerio, it's like.. it can't get any worse.. so from now on it's just happiness19:02
keriodo they still repair N900s?19:02
DocScrutinizerno they don't19:02
kerioDocScrutinizer: will you repair my n900? :(19:02
hiemanshuso if they dont repair N900s and I give mine for repair, do I get a N8 for an extra cost?19:02
filipbtw, is nokia n9 buyable?19:03
DocScrutinizerN900 obviously TOTALLY discontinued, they don't even have swap devices19:03
cpscottifilip, basically.. everyone I know that owned a n900 still owns it and loves it..19:03
cpscotti(random people included)19:03
DocScrutinizerkerio: no19:03
Jaffahiemanshu: No, I got an N8 instead. Swapped it for an E719:03
kerioDocScrutinizer: but my usb port is still broken!19:03
filipcpscotti: do I understand correctly that meego is a 'merge' of maemo and moblin?19:03
hiemanshuJaffa: yes but yours was in warranty19:03
chem|stDocScrutinizer: I would swap for a n900 or a n950 in order of appearance and nothing else!19:04
DocScrutinizerkerio: find somebody else to repair it please19:04
cpscottifilip, politically yes.. technically no.19:04
kerioreally though, is there someone who knows how to repair n900s?19:04
chem|stkerio: solder it?19:04
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cpscottifilip, and harmattan is not meego anyway..19:04
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filipcpscotti: so ppl here are generally not very much involved with meego?19:04
DocScrutinizerkerio: there are good USB-repair thread on tmo19:04
chem|stfilip: this is #maemo...19:05
cpscottihumm.. I thing we'd say pretty much everyone's involved with qt and linux19:05
DocScrutinizerand there are a few cellphone service points in almost every town19:05
DocScrutinizerbring the two together19:05
kerioDocScrutinizer: but that would require me to go on TMO19:05
cpscottifilip, the bits in between are a bit cloudy19:05
filipI'm just wondering why development hasn't moved to meego19:05
filipis there something you don't like about it?19:05
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DocScrutinizerfilip: for now maemo5 still is the most usable most mature OS for N90019:06
DocScrutinizerwith the best support "app-wise"19:07
trxalso, there were no devices that run meego19:07
filiptrx: it has been partially ported to the n90019:07
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trxand community partialy moved to meego..19:07
filipwell I think that in the open source world the main scarcity is developers time19:08
DocScrutinizerkerio: if you're interested, I got a bookmark colection for USB repair19:08
filipthat makes me wonder why the force is being split between meego and maemo19:08
villagermeego partially ported isn't good enough for me to use it regularly, so I'll continue developing for maemo for a while19:08
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kerioDocScrutinizer: well i suppose i am, the alternative is a n819:08
keriounless they'll eventually swap my phone with a n919:09
javispedroGeneralAntilles: so, where's the hating?19:09
ShadowJKI don't think "partially ported" is a good description. It just happens that plain MeeGo does almost nothing :)19:10
gri_the dhl delivery guy knows how to work: let the n950 package stay in the garden without any notification19:10
DocScrutinizer~usb-fix is <reply> Fixate receptacle like this: - get the form there for details how to deal with contact pads came off19:10
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer19:10
DocScrutinizer~tell kerio about usb-fix19:11
filipso the best open source smartphone is atm the n900?19:13
villagerfilip: I don't think you need to assume that community-written software couldn't run on both maemo and meego (and maemo and meego themselves aren't written by the community anyway, but by paid engineers)19:13
kerioi doubt i'll be able to do that myself though, i don't have a solder gun or the required manuality19:13
DocScrutinizerfilip: many here will answer "yes"19:13
DocScrutinizerincl me19:13
keriofilip: technically there are no open source phones19:13
filipDocScrutinizer: what could be better? freerunner is hardly usable...19:14
filipkerio: yeah, I mean something more open than androi19:14
keriothe openmoko devices get close, and the n900 is somewhat behind19:14
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keriooh, absolutely then19:14
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filipkerio: and n900 can be hacked to support usb host 2.0?19:15
kerioDocScrutinizer: do you think a somewhat skilled technician will be able to do it?19:15
keriofilip: you mean in host mode?19:15
kerioit's already there19:15
filipkerio: yup19:15
DocScrutinizerfilip: future devices incl future OS *could* be better - I don't see this happen any time soon19:15
kerioit just works badly19:15
DocScrutinizerkerio: definitely19:15
DocScrutinizer~lart kerio19:16
* infobot pushes the wall down onto kerio whilst whistling innocently19:16
filipkerio: what are the problems?19:16
keriohey, it *does* work badly!19:16
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filipkerio: I was wondering about a possibility of using n900 with a bluetooth mouse, usb keyboard and a displaylink video device19:16
keriofilip: well, there's tv-out, which is *kinda* what you want19:16
DocScrutinizerkerio: you are *using* it badly! ;-P19:17
filipkerio: 720x574 is hardly more than the 800x480 internal display :P19:17
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kerioDocScrutinizer: i am not using it, pay attention19:17
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keriomy usb port is brok19:17
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DocScrutinizerkerio: so yeah, obviously USB hostmode works badly for *you* then19:18
kerioit's sad because it's true :(19:18
keriofilip: do you really care about the "phone" part?19:18
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: anything for the N950 yet?19:18
keriobecause apparently the pandora is better19:18
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, hostmode-powered is
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Jaffajavispedro: Shiny19:20
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: regarding hostmode? yeah, we are as fsckd as I expected19:20
* javispedro was impressed when flicking through the time zone list19:20
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: so will be fun again ;-D19:20
JaffaFirst phone I've had where one of the shipped ring tones is one I quite like19:20
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: hah, well any chances of getting the schematics, or should I put my ninja suit on? :P19:21
DocScrutinizerJaffa: DUH, which one?19:21
Jaffa"Blip" is quite sci-fiey and distinctive, without being an annoying tune19:21
javispedrothe bootsplash is very webos1 like ;)19:21
Jaffajavispedro: Ari's influence? ;-)19:21
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: ninja suit is OK19:21
hiemanshujavispedro: you got yours?19:21
DocScrutinizerJaffa: lemme check19:22
hiemanshujavispedro: you lucky bastard :(19:22
javispedroseems that one of my worries about the UI (that the swiping out thing would be tiresome) has disappeared.19:23
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: that's ALL? I'm tempted to sort my glasses on the board and blame my neighbour19:23
javispedrofor some reason though, when holding it in portrait, it's best to swipe from right to left otherwise I hit sensitivity issues.19:23
javispedrobut the opposite direction works very well.19:24
hiemanshujavispedro: does the phone need charging before the first use?19:24
* hiemanshu wants to know because I want to make a unboxing video19:24
hiemanshuwith powering it on, etc19:24
ruskieliion/lipo don't need charging for first use19:25
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: how's about "Noise Experiment" or "Retrobot" or even "Roboioioi"19:25
gri_mine had 75% load at arrving19:25
ruskieusual stored charge is ~70% iirc19:25
ruskiefor li* bats19:25
hiemanshuah awesome!19:25
ruskieanyway sharing those ringtones?19:25
ruskieerm anyone even19:25
hiemanshuwell once I get my device I might19:26
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: no, doesn't need charging, but hooking up to N900 wallcharger soonish won't hurt neither your video nor the device. Be aware though the screen is covered by a completely opaque protector ;-P19:27
ruskieI can see that going... wtf it's not working...19:27
ruskiereturn to sender19:28
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yeah, will make sure about that :)19:28
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DocScrutinizerfooled me quite a bit first time XP19:28
hiemanshu<--- dinner19:28
filipkerio: yes I do, that's the primary function for me :)19:28
keriofilip: then... tough shit, i suppose :P19:29
kerioi guess that it could work with easydebian though19:30
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: ruskie:
kerioinstall a kernel module to get the fb device, then run X on it from easydebian19:30
filipthat could be funny19:31
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you got your N950? \o/19:31
* javispedro fails to enter his wpa password using vkb19:32
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, HATE19:32
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, did you meet DHL?19:32
javispedroyes, funny guy, only took like 8h </grumble>19:33
fiferboyJust curious, has anyone in North America gotten a device?19:33
javispedrowhy the hell the device comes preloaded by Baidu and lots of chinese bookmarks?19:34
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GeneralAntillesfiferboy, probably qole, but they just sent him one to make us irritated.19:34
fiferboyqole has his?19:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ???19:35
javispedroI can guess why19:35
Jaffajavispedro: ??? Mine didn't.19:35
javispedroI selected Spain as region, and probably Spain comes with China bookmarks.19:35
JaffaThat isn't particularly obvious19:35
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, no, but that would be my assumption.19:35
* DocScrutinizer wonders if he knows where to look for bookmarks at all19:36
RST38hjavispedro; you already received the device/19:36
DocScrutinizerthe browser startscreen is pretty annoying and messed up19:36
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JaffaActually, good question. I only thought you had bookmarks through "Add to apps"19:38
gri_Jaffa: Is it normal that the n950 syncs contacts with the n900 and all are lost after a reboot? (used your wiki descriptions for that)19:39
javispedronah, browser home page is bookmarks, like on n90019:39
javispedroalbeit instead of small thumnails it shows horizontally large vertically clipped19:39
DocScrutinizer*cough* the one with lots of rubbish like "Welcome to the..." (SIC!) and "welcome to the Corporate..." (SIC!) ?19:40
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: ah, I noticed that :P19:41
DocScrutinizeralso hooray for this page not zoomable19:41
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javispedroquestion: does touchscreen vibration work?19:41
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: a pity, the protector foil kinda looks WAAAY cooler then the glary glass actual screen ;-P19:42
DocScrutinizeror was it "glossy"?19:43
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yeah, I would went wow, seeing it for the first time, and then I realized its just a protector19:43
hiemanshus/would //19:43
infobothiemanshu meant: DocScrutinizer: yeah, I went wow, seeing it for the first time, and then I realized its just a protector19:43
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: the missing camera/sensors give it away19:44
DocScrutinizeryet I never before bothered about removing protector foild prior to first functional tests ;-P19:46
DocScrutinizerso I went "WTF?!" on powering N950 up19:46
GeneralAntillesI see Lenovo opted for a shitty LCD panel with their U1 tablet.19:46
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: and stupidity strikes again! :P19:47
DocScrutinizer~lart all glossy LCD19:47
* infobot beats all glossy LCD senseless with a 50lb Unix manual19:47
javispedroDocScrutinizer: does vibrator feedback when tapping work for you?19:47
javispedroI can't get either sound nor vibra feedback, despite feedbackd running.19:47
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I was just so happy about the matte black screen, I guess19:47
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yes19:48
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* javispedro grumbles19:48
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DocScrutinizeror actually only rarely19:48
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: matte screens on mobiles isn't really common19:49
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: esp when you expect mobiles to have perfect colors and everything19:49
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: or not at all actually, just booting after ramping everyting up in settings19:52
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: nope, no feedback19:52
javispedroah, ok, Iwas starting to think broken vibra..19:53
javispedrofortunately though I just realized that if you set it on silent it briefly vibrates, and that does work.19:53
DocScrutinizerpower-on kick also WFM19:54
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DocScrutinizerhowever the GUI and UX is a mix of 90% WOW and 10% WTF19:56
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DocScrutinizerwhile maemo5 is like 80% WOW, 18% "thank God for that, it's classic", and 2% "meh, this is clearly a case for CSSU"19:57
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DocScrutinizera friggin lot isn't working in landscape at all, a clear reminiscence to N919:59
javispedrotime to see what this usb sdk mode is for.19:59
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DocScrutinizerremote GDB etc?20:00
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javispedroseems usbnet20:00
DocScrutinizermass storage for installing the SDK to PC?20:00
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DocScrutinizerDARN, the friggin cdc_ether killed my eth020:02
* DocScrutinizer unpluggs 950 from laptop20:03
DocScrutinizerthis thing DOES NOT EVEN HAVE a SIM, still advertises on USB as NIC20:04
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DocScrutinizerbtw sth that never woked like that with N900 for me20:04
DocScrutinizerobviously overdone20:05
DocScrutinizerfor harm20:05
DocScrutinizerwell, I should blame knetworkmanager or what that thing is20:06
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* DocScrutinizer has moved the USB plug back from PC to wallcharger ;-)20:06
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: tell me when you start to tackle aegis and kernel :-D20:07
DocScrutinizeraegis<tabtab> is interesting20:08
DocScrutinizerbut same time puzzling20:08
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DocScrutinizer~seen MohammadAG20:08
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infobotmohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 77 messages. Is idling for 4h 37m 22s, last said: 'yeah, totally our fault'.20:08
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* javispedro ponders what the "password" field in SDK connectivity is, considering the password seems to always be rootme no matter what..20:15
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DocScrutinizerI gather you're playing with USB SDK mode?20:20
DocScrutinizerI'm wondering if the global policy for developer-mode in aegis is way too restrictive. I'd hope for a developr-mode that basically disables all aegis checks20:21
* javispedro wants to try his SDL before bricking the device ;)20:21
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DocScrutinizerif you want aegis "protection" then there's "normal" mode for that20:22
DocScrutinizerin devel-mode aegis ought not bother about manifests for binaries at all, please20:22
fralsDocScrutinizer: agreed20:23
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DocScrutinizerso where do we open this ticket? whom do we pester to fix the issue?20:23
DocScrutinizerNB I'm fine with e.g mediaplayer not (fully?) functional in devel-mode  - if that's an implication of completely open mode20:24
DocScrutinizerI don't need CSS to work in mediaplayer, when I'm in devel-mode20:25
DocScrutinizerI'm happy with videos with CSS simply not playing20:26
DocScrutinizerbut honestly, that's what aegis mode switching is all about, to allow such a policy20:27
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DocScrutinizera devel-mode that's still restricitve is nonsense20:27
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javispedroone interesting consequence of the swipe out thing is that by default you leave applications open instead of closing them20:28
javispedrohope the GiB will be enough for that.20:28
fralsafter that cgroups hopefully terminates the right thing ;)20:28
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javispedromore worries20:29
javispedrocause that's what android would do :(20:29
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fralswell what do you do when out of memory?20:29
javispedroit's just a different approach20:30
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (leave open) already mentioned and critizised it20:30
fralsDocScrutinizer: swipe from top closes in later releases20:30
SpeedEviljavispedro: yeah - it took me ages to work out how to close apps.20:30
SpeedEvil(on the rda)20:30
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javispedroon fremantle user is the one say "ok, I want this application so much I'm willing to let it waste my precious memory to let it do whatever it is doing"20:31
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DocScrutinizerfrals: <quote me> with swipe-from-top to close apps the gui is almost nice</quote> (OWTTE)20:31
javispedrothe android way is "the user is an idiot, let's just run all applications and a wizard will choose which ones we close"20:31
javispedroharmattan seems like a weird compromise.20:32
fralsjavispedro: and when the system is out of memory, what happens? :)20:32
fralsroulette with all pids? :D20:32
GeneralAntillesYeah, I prefer Fremantle's approach.20:32
GeneralAntillesI'm more than capable of dealing with my own failings.20:32
fralsid say harmattan is more like, if the user wants to close something he can do it, otherwise we have this fallback for people who have no clue whats going on20:32
javispedrofrals: on Diablo you got a "out of memory" _before_ launching an app.20:32
javispedroon Fremantle I don't think I ever had an out of memory event.20:32
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: harmattan is like windows6 in that respect20:33
javispedroprobably because with the close button being so accesible, the average number of open apps was 2. or 3.20:33
javispedrowhile on harmattan, well, after toying with it for a minutes I already have _all_ of the applications open.20:33
javispedro(compliment: it is still performing)20:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: but taskswitching gets a PITA20:34
fralsDocScrutinizer: using the 3x3 grid?20:34
DocScrutinizerfor mere matters of cluttering the switcher20:34
javispedroeither way, the close gesture is a welcome adition and probably makes it more like fremantle.20:34
DocScrutinizerfrals: even then20:35
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fralsfair enough :)20:35
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* javispedro still sometimes wants to "swipe cards out" of the task switcher20:35
DocScrutinizerduh, never thought about that - what does it do?20:36
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javispedrothat is a webos gesture that got on me, does nothing on harmattan (scrolls actually)20:36
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, ooh.20:36
GeneralAntillesCan't we implement that in the theme?20:37
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javispedrowe had this discussion, and it seems harder than that, because there are no available free scroll "directions"20:37
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javispedrohorizontal switches to launcher or feedview20:37
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javispedroand vertical pans20:37
lcukjavispedro, technically border panning should be available from all edges20:38
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: actually swipe and flick are redundant in the 3 basic screens20:39
fiferboyAre there any multi-touch gestures?20:40
fiferboyLike two-finger swipes, or anything?20:40
DocScrutinizerit never occured to me I could also flick aka "scroll" to switch from taskswitcher to any other of the 2 screens20:40
DocScrutinizerfiferboy: nope20:40
javispedroDocScrutinizer: how you'd do it?20:40
DocScrutinizerfiferboy: which is quite a pity20:40
javispedroDocScrutinizer: fiferboy: try pinching in task view20:40
javispedroweb browser cannot install non user/* packages20:41
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'd use swipe to switch to screens and reassign horizontal "dragging" of apps out of screen to "close app" - for example20:42
javispedrowhich btw on harmattan seem to be marked as such with a different method20:42
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: please share how to reproduce20:42
javispedrothe what?20:43
javispedropinching, p.debs?20:43
DocScrutinizerinstall via webbrowser20:43
javispedroclick on .deb, click again on download manager, wait a few seconds, get error message20:43
DocScrutinizerI'm still lost on how to install *anything*20:44
khertanovi store20:44
DocScrutinizeryeah that's what I did after typing in the URL of that bash repo20:44
javispedroaegis-installing libsdl1.2  lol20:44
DocScrutinizerkhertan: "Coming soon..."20:44
khertanDocScrutinizer, yep ... like everything on this plateform20:45
khertanat least git should be available in rzr home20:45
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: so how did you get to any URL where you could actually click on .deb?20:46
khertanand pyflakes on my home :)20:46
javispedroI would be careful installing things external things until we get to know aegis20:46
javispedrootherwise you risk getting the "Device is malfunctioning you dumbastard!"20:46
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javispedroas I said, I _couldn't install_ it, but I got a "Package is not wellformed" or sth like that20:47
javispedrowhich is very similar to the one you got in Fremantle when it was not user/*20:47
DocScrutinizersame here20:47
DocScrutinizerI then clicked again on the local download copy20:47
fralspackage malformed or something seems to be some catch all crap20:47
javispedrothe way to make user/* packages has changed in harmattan, so no wonder nothing works20:48
DocScrutinizerwhich actually installed the bash.deb20:48
fralsseen it when trying to install proper packages20:48
fralsor what i consider proper anyway, and whats in the image you guys have so :P20:48
javispedroit is not a dep issue as that installs without any external dep here20:48
javispedro(I already used dpkg -i )20:48
GeneralAntillesfrals, get us a new image. :P20:49
javispedrois that user/*?20:49
khertanjavispedro, hum ... good point20:49
javispedrokhertan: I do not know how much QtCreator automates that.20:49
khertanjavispedro, oh there is a doc finnaly20:49
javispedroyep :)20:50
khertanMaemo-Flags: visible <<< nice it didn't respect debian policy20:50
javispedrowell, it's better than the maemo trick20:50
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khertanmaemo trick isn't so bad20:50
javispedrothe maemo trick actually violated policy, this one's just a nonstandard extension.20:50
DocScrutinizerI'm missing a tools-repo actually20:50
javispedroDocScrutinizer: with dev mode a metapackage containing most of what was on tools repo is installed20:51
javispedrobut of course I bet you mean "your" tools repo ;)20:51
CaCO3_khertan: what does it mean on the OBS builder when it sais *4 hours" job time? Doues your package take that long to compile or is it waiting sinz 4h?20:51
javispedroinstead of stuff like oprofile20:51
DocScrutinizerI mean a proper repo with random stuff like the nnnn pkgs found under develpment in any sane distro20:52
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: What are /you/ going to do with a new image?20:52
javispedroDocScrutinizer: the calendar app is formidable and the pickers impressive.20:52
DocScrutinizersee my screenshots on OVI20:52
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javispedrowe finally have something that could compete with Palm's PIM :)20:53
DocScrutinizeralas MTF which aiui is deprectaed for app devels20:53
javispedroalso, in the general direction of making this more like a phone and less like a computer,20:53
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javispedrothe note application now handles the notes database by itself (ie no file picker)20:54
DocScrutinizersee the abysmal slotmachine date/time-picker widgets from QMLcomp...(1,2) apps20:54
javispedroyou could disagree here, but I prefer very much the database approach vs file picker.20:54
DocScrutinizerand the notes somewhat acted up on me, on first note I intended to enter20:55
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, same thing /you're/ going to do.20:55
* javispedro loves floating formatting bar20:56
javispedroin notes20:56
DocScrutinizeralso globally no markup+C&P20:56
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I knew that was coming :P20:56
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yes there is!20:56
DocScrutinizerthen it's friggin well hidden20:56
javispedroit just appeared on me!20:56
javispedroit's a floating formatting bar20:56
DocScrutinizerin browser?20:56
javispedroalbeit I have to see how that works on larger notes.20:56
fiferboyDocScrutinizer: link to your ovi screenshots?20:57
javispedroDocScrutinizer: no, notes app.20:57
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DocScrutinizerin arbitrary text input fields?20:57
javispedroyet to see that.20:57
javispedroalbeit when I used to work on the input method there was global c&p support20:57
javispedroin the form of a button in the vkb20:57
DocScrutinizerfiferboy: somewhere next to
javispedrowhich does not seem to be present now..20:57
* fiferboy needs to live vicariously20:58
javispedroso how do you copy from browser? good question..20:58
DocScrutinizermuhaha server error on OVI20:59
fiferboyDocScrutinizer: It is working now20:59
fralsDocScrutinizer: all textinputs should have c&p20:59
fralsbut text selection in browser :(((20:59
DocScrutinizerfrals: maybe, by using kbd20:59
* CaCO3_ is wondering why is not accessable anymore. Is it me?21:00
fralsDocScrutinizer: no, swipe over text to select and it should appear magically21:00
DocScrutinizeryou can't highlight text with "the mouse" - thanks c-ts21:00
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you can..21:00
fralslong tap on text for magnifier21:00
DocScrutinizerI tried for ~10min, no success21:00
javispedroyou clearly have never used an iPhone, DocScrutinizer ;)21:00
DocScrutinizermy friend neither21:01
DocScrutinizerand he owns an iPhone21:01
javispedrowell weird stuff still happens on this image21:01
javispedrofor example now vibrator feedback has appeared21:01
javispedrofor no discernible reason.21:01
DocScrutinizer"2 : 1" on lockscreen. Hooray for now "0" missing instead of "9"21:02
javispedromine says " 0:01"21:02
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DocScrutinizer"2 : 2"21:02
javispedrofor a moment I thought the clock had been resetted until I remember what DocScrutinizer about weird font missing chars ;)21:02
javispedro" 0:0 "21:02
javispedrotoday's missing number is "2" here.21:02
fralsfwiw its fixed now at least ;-)21:03
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javispedrobtw, screen fingerprint magnet21:03
javispedrodefinitely more than n900.21:03
DocScrutinizerwoooohaha, vib feedback in notes on vkbd21:03
javispedroor maybe n900 already has a shit layer21:04
GAN900javispedro, we should make bingo cards.21:04
fralsDocScrutinizer: seems vibra is only on the vkb and not actually on tapping icons and stuff in my experience21:04
fralswhy its like that i have no idea...21:04
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DocScrutinizerstill I fail to get it how to highlight text even in notes. all I get is the magnifier-view of cursor position21:05
fralsless pressure and move over the text21:05
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javispedrodownload manager is also good.21:06
javispedroaccesible from status area btw.21:07
fralstransfer ui is pretty good aye21:07
DocScrutinizerohwell that's c-ts21:07
javispedrobtw, qml applications on stock firmware: qml widgetsgallery, maps, and facebook.21:08
DocScrutinizerI now have learned how to highlight random text in word chunks21:08
DocScrutinizerrandom, not arbitrary21:08
javispedroDocScrutinizer: :)21:08
javispedrostep by step!21:09
ScifigGood morning/evening. Did anyone's status change from "New Order" today? I've noticed some people received their device today, but no one mentioned change in order status.21:09
DocScrutinizerthis device isn't meant for serious work being done21:09
javispedroDocScrutinizer: fortunately, your device still has a keyboard to get some work done21:09
javispedroincluding arrow keys and Ctrl+C21:10
DocScrutinizerit a multimedia smartphone, not any kind of palmtop computer21:10
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DocScrutinizerwho minted the term? "optimized to shine on first usage, rather than for serious use"21:11
DocScrutinizeryou can attract drive-by-customers this way21:12
Jaffagrinsekatze:  Worked for me, but I had an effort getting them across. I'd delete all from N950, delete the sync profiles are try again...21:12
javispedroDocScrutinizer: well, not that you had consistent and/or coherent global copy&paste on the N900.21:12
javispedroeach of the applications doing it his way.21:13
GeneralAntillesScifig, not me, not fiferboy.21:13
DocScrutinizerpick from display in shop, randomly tap here and there, admire the transitions, buy...21:13
GeneralAntilleskhertan got a shipping, not sure about anybody else21:13
GeneralAntillesAt this rate we might all have them by the time Nokia's a Microsoft subsidiary.21:13
infobotJaffa meant: gri_:  Worked for me, but I had an effort getting them across. I'd delete all from N950, delete the sync profiles are try again...21:13
ScifigGeneralAntilles - Thanks. Btw I think both of our orders were submitted on same day too 7/7/11.21:14
GeneralAntillesScifig, khertan's went in at about 12:30 (Finnish time) on the 7th, so it's definitely in order of reception (12:04 here).21:15
javispedron950 comes with imagemagick including decades-old "display" image viewer =)21:15
javispedroand it even runs =)21:15
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DocScrutinizerI'd love to make maps run21:16
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DocScrutinizerI'm eager to test that app, more than anything else21:16
* javispedro finally colides with aegis21:16
DocScrutinizeralas it fails for me on Nokia account21:16
javispedro"Aegis: verification failed (no reference hash)"21:16
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JaffaInteresting, gPodder stays landscape in Harmattan in tsk switcher. Will have to ask thp how he does that.21:17
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javispedrohah, it is very easy if your app is plain X11 :)21:18
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ScifigGeneralAntilles - I might have submitted around 16:30 Helsinki time, so more wait for me then.21:18
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Do you mean NOT in roder of reception?21:19
infobotfiferboy meant: GeneralAntilles: Do you mean NOT in order of reception?21:19
Jaffajavispedro: Having 'display' is cool, as displaying random images was always a problem on Maemo21:19
JaffaThat reminds me, I must put screenshot instructions on Migrating_from_N900_to_N95021:20
javispedroJaffa: sadly I wouldn't suggest using it because it is probably unoutswiplable21:20
javispedro# touch /home/user/crap21:21
javispedrotouch: /home/user/crap: Permission denied21:21
javispedroI. WANT. REAL. ROOT.21:21
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Jaffajavispedro: I thought an atom *prevented* that, not enabled it21:21
javispedrounredirected windows also prevent it21:21
javispedroand seems this uses them21:22
javispedroeitherway it seems to work though... albeit corruptely ;)21:22
javispedroGOT IT!!!!21:23
javispedrohum.. now I can copy to /home/user but still cannot exec() ..21:24
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dm8tbrhmm so does anyone know if I can get all sorts of notifications from harmattan easily?21:25
DocScrutinizerWOW it accepted my Nokia account!!! \o/21:25
dm8tbrlike incoming call, text message, IM, ...21:25
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Itschuemoin moin21:26
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DocScrutinizerthe maps app is absolutely overwhelming21:32
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e0xDocScrutinizer: n950 ?21:33
e0xi hate you21:33
e0xi was reject :D21:34
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Itschuen900 nachfolger?21:35
Itschuesorry dont know nachfolger in english21:36
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piggzany qtmobility experts here? it seems there is some missing symbols in libqtm-12-location21:44
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Maps is better than Fremantle version but still shit compared with Wayfinder on Diablo (I tried using it yeseterday, with Drive, in the car)21:44
JaffaPretty, but functionally and usably limited21:44
piggzeither that, or i have messed up, and it maybe isnt finding the libs21:44
piggzJaffa: compared to google maps nav?21:45
rm_workJaffa: I just want an official GoogleMaps app already >_>21:45
rm_worki don't see how, faced with the correct way to do things, they still get it so wrong21:45
GAN900Jaffa, really?21:46
GAN900That's too bad.21:46
GAN900Screenshots make it look like a reasonable Garmin replacement.21:46
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javispedro"This selects the Maemo Aegis Security Framework. If you are unsure how to answer this question, answer N."21:48
javispedrodirect to the point...21:48
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piggz_pls repeat anything ive missed since 19:45 GMT+1 ...hotel wifi kicked me off :)21:53
piggz_hiemanshu: nothing much then :)21:54
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piggz_still waiting for dispatch of working on new game21:54
piggz_i guess the app im about to release for maemo will have to be re-written using qt components as it uses qwidget21:55
hiemanshusame here, hoping it ships tomorrow21:55
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javispedrooh, zImage is now lzo compressed seemingly.21:59
ruskie <-- interesting22:00
GeneralAntilles10.1" is way too big for a tablet.22:02
hiemanshuno, 10.1 is perfect, anything smaller is bad22:02
ruskieI'm still hoping the touchbook becomes more than vapourware22:02
fiferboyNo, 10.1" is too small for a tablet.  15" at least22:03
ruskienaahhh 30" atleast22:03
javispedroso, booting a new kernel without aegis = reboot after 8 seconds22:03
ruskiejavispedro, owww fun22:03
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hiemanshuruskie: then its not a tablet, its a full size capsule :P22:03
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ruskieGeneralAntilles, to small22:05
DocScrutinizerJaffa: the POI integration is awesome22:05
GeneralAntilles10.1 you can't hold it and type.22:05
ruskieGeneralAntilles, well the touchbook is 8.9"22:05
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: you can, you just have small hands22:05
DocScrutinizermaybe shit compared to a *real* navi, but best *I* have seen so far (I never used a 'real' navi)22:05
ivan4ththat Aegis seem to retain too much from Gorgon... It worries me as I'll receive my N950 soon, too22:06
ruskiea nice inbetween a to small 7" and to big 10"22:06
GeneralAntilleshiemanshu, my hands are pretty normal sized.22:06
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: it finds all the relevant pubs nearby, allows direct phone call, calculates route, gives routing detail...22:07
DocScrutinizerbut beither map nor drive seems to use the *compass* :-/22:07
javispedrooh, we have a compass22:07
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yeah, bit obviously nuttin that's using it22:08
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DocScrutinizerwhich is a nuisance as that bit is one of the most intriguing ones22:09
DocScrutinizereven announced and planned an app based on it22:09
paulyhey, "yone want to buy my n900 for $25022:10
DocScrutinizerhah, now you want to sell?22:10
DocScrutinizerwhat went wrong with swapping it for a N8?22:10
paulyno 1 has an n822:10
DocScrutinizertimeless had22:11
paulytimeless has not been on22:11
hiemanshuI want an N8 too, but not after selling my N90022:11
DocScrutinizeryou spoiled the deal, I guess22:11
paulyno i didnt i been waiting for him to come on irc22:11
paulybut he not here?22:13
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: The biggest problem with it are the light grey roads, on a lighter grey background on a white background.22:21
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Makes using in a car a bit... tricky22:21
SpeedEvil!seen timeless22:24
DocScrutinizerin drive? yeah that's bad22:24
SpeedEvilI think he was on last night.22:24
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ~ is the key22:24
SpeedEvil~seen timeless22:24
infobottimeless <d04149cb@firefox/developer/timeless> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 52m 47s ago, saying: 'well, for mine, you add my repo and install a locale (en-US/en-GB) :)'.22:25
SpeedEvilyeah - for large values of last.22:25
DocScrutinizertimeless is known by many names ;-P22:25
DocScrutinizerJaffa: tried nightmode?22:26
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rm_work~seen timelessx22:30
infoboti haven't seen 'timelessx', rm_work22:30
rm_workhrm forget his other name22:30
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp, timeless_n900, timeless_$randomfoo just some of those22:36
DocScrutinizerI really hate this nickname switching22:36
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: true, just use one common nick or a distributed client22:40
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DocScrutinizerwell, I'm the right one to bitch, with my up to 4 different concurrent nicks. It's just not exactly trivial to keep all on one bouncer, and some users may not even have the option to use a bouncer. But if you are logging in mutually exclusively from different clients, then I couldn't care less about learning you're just on your N900, or on your MBP or whatever. And I absolutely hate the itsme_zzZZzz itsme_onToilet itsme_dinner scheme22:44
hiemanshuWell i have the same nick from all my devices, and yeah stateful nicks are stupid22:46
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fiferboyIs it possible to programmatically assign focus to a Qt Component, say a TextField?22:56
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DocScrutinizerjust don't ask me about details22:57
DocScrutinizersth along object.takefocus() or whatever22:58
fiferboyI can see how to determine if an object HAS focus, but not to assign focus22:58
DocScrutinizersetfocus() prolly22:58
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DocScrutinizerfor all I recall from my Qt time 5y back it's trivial23:00
fiferboyThere is focus and activeFocus, both for determining focus23:00
fiferboyThere is forceActiveFocus, but it doesn't seem to work as I would expect23:00
DocScrutinizerobject.focus.set() maybe?23:00
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fiferboyIt looks like "object.focus: true" is supposed to work, but it didn't look like it to me23:02
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fiferboyUnfortunately, QML doesn't seem to work the same way23:04
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Nightmode wasn't great. Maps' "Terrain" view seemed best, but navigation in there kept crashing.23:04
fiferboyBut focus is not a read-only property, so maybe setting it from the right place will work23:05
Itschueis there any app that change the fm transmitter frequenz autmatical when an other radio sender my n900 stört?23:05
JaffaThere's an Empty Frequency Finder script23:05
DocScrutinizerthat wouldn't help much either, Itschue - how would your radio learn about the freq change?23:06
cehtehi'd like the opposite, turn microphone on, find out which broadcast is on, and then hijack it with your own music23:06
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cehtehi sometimes need that when i am guest in others cars :P23:07
JaffaDocScrutinizer: RDS is already used, so the radio should be able to track.23:07
DocScrutinizerI suggested the concept of user selecting a quiet spot on radio, then hit a "tune" button on N900 so the device sends an acoustic beacon on each channel and listens to mic to tell the right channel23:08
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JaffaItschue: The biggest problem, AIUI, is that the FM RX & TX can't both be active at the same time23:08
fiferboySetting the focus property within the element definition does not work for me23:08
cehtehDocScrutinizer: thats slow23:08
DocScrutinizerJaffa: won't work when the transmission already got messed up23:08
DocScrutinizercehteh: well maybe23:08
DocScrutinizercehteh: I know ways to speed it up ;-P23:08
Itschuethe radio didnt change it automatic but when i change it on the radio the n90 change it automatic some fm trans devices can do those thing23:09
cehtehwider band :P23:09
cehtehmore output!23:09
DocScrutinizerJaffa: obviously. How ould the RX *inside* N900 tell about interference on the car radio some meter distant23:10
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Itschue2shit fucking disco23:11
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cehtehcan it receive and send at the same time? iirc not the receiver is used to tune the transmitter right?23:12
DocScrutinizerJaffa: though I actually created nice feedback by sending FMRX signal to FMTX and tuning both to same freq X-P23:12
DocScrutinizers/signal/audio signal/23:12
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: Jaffa: though I actually created nice feedback by sending FMRX audio signal to FMTX and tuning both to same freq X-P23:12
cehtehas i saied, turn microphone on, listen to ambient and analyze it if that what you send23:13
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DocScrutinizercehteh: oh yeah, will for sure pan out - in your car, at max volume23:14
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cehtehwell needs some serious signal processing23:14
Itschue2still i use fm boost but this wont work anytime because the radio signal from other sender are stronger23:14
DocScrutinizerwith extremely smart algos to compensate for RTT and EQ23:14
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cehtehbut on the other hand a frequency analyzer app would be nice for the sound enginerrs on the road :P23:14
cehtehyeah and delay compenstation and maximize, not match23:15
cehtehi know that :)23:15
DocScrutinizerItschue2: find a silent spot on your car radio, read the freq, tune N900 FMTX to that freq23:15
Itschue2fuck ey23:16
Itschue2das geht net so einfach weil immer wieder irgendein sender stört23:16
DocScrutinizersorry the, that's not going to get fixed by any means23:16
Itschue2ich suche zu hause ne freie frequenz und 15 km später werde ich gestört23:16
cehtehItschue2: there is some fmtx boosting app and then search for a good spot to place the n90023:16
Itschue2i know i have the fmboost script but i dont know how much battery energy it use?23:17
cehtehsometimes thats at surprisingly odd places because the car antennas are outside or on the window and the car is a faraday cage23:17
DocScrutinizerpro tip: plugging in a dead-ended USB cable is reportedly amplifying the FMTX signal quite a bit23:17
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Itschue2ohh good idea23:18
DocScrutinizerfmboost won't eat significant amounts of battery power23:18
cehtehprolly less than the speakers :P23:19
DocScrutinizerit's like ramping up power used by FMTX chip from 0.0000001W to 0.0000005W23:19
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Itschue2ok that is to forget23:19
DocScrutinizeryou'll hardly find a way to measure it23:19
Itschue2how can i change the order of the milkyway desktop pics i want that all 4 pics goes one to left i hope you know what i mean23:20
cehtehmove all desktop icons one to the right :P23:21
KhLoveNickSwitchDeparted Facility in HELSINKI - FINLAND HELSINKI - FINLAND 21:5123:21
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Itschue2no the start desktop is empty there is only these cool eyes23:21
cehtehcool eyes?23:22
Itschue2the eyes widget23:22
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cehtehwell anyways .. the pics are ordered by the theme or whatever container sets this .. you have to redefine/recreate that, possibly thats easy but some work23:22
cehtehthat certainly eats a lot of power23:23
Itschue2the eyes eats lot of power?23:23
* cehteh put the gnome eyes widget on his wifes menubar (desktop computer) and surprisingly its one of the apps which accumulate the most cpu23:23
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cehtehnote that it needs to wake for every screen redraw23:24
cehtehdoesnt matter for a desktop but certainly matters on the n90023:24
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Itschue2note that it needs to wake for every screen redraw  in german plz23:25
villagerI thought it only needed to wake for every input event23:25
holmesIII am using QT, in which header that I can get the battery charge level (mhA)  information ?23:25
DocScrutinizerItschue2: it will run on *every* action that takes place on the phone23:26
DocScrutinizerItschue2: it sucks23:26
Itschue2but ist cool23:26
Itschue2fuck denglish23:26
holmesIIbattery.reporting.current = 847  (0x34f)  (int)  how can i get this information in QT?23:27
DocScrutinizerwill kill your batteryin half the time :-)23:27
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Itschue2hmm i will test it23:28
Itschue2and the desktop background pics kann i change the order evene when it is installed or is it better to download the.deb file and change it in this?23:29
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Itschue2ok time to go see you tomorrow23:30
DocScrutinizerdesktp wallpapers are changed by clicking on desktop background, clicking on the gear icon, selecting sth like "change wallpaper" from the menu from upper right23:34
gri_DocScrutinizer: Am I allowed to use the n900 wall charger for the n950 or will that damage something?23:34
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DocScrutinizerperfectly sane23:35
DocScrutinizerdoing it all the time23:35
gri_good :)23:36
DocScrutinizerif it would break anything, I think I should have a visit at Tampere23:36
DocScrutinizernah, nokia EE mostly know their business - well they practiced for quite some time :-)23:39
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DocScrutinizerI wish my colleagues in Taipei always had delivvered such quality of hw design23:39
gri_ok, I only had in mind that the wall charger is/was not recommed for meego ce, so I thought it might handle things a bit different :)23:39
DocScrutinizerI don't know about any such limitations for meegoCE23:40
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gri_it was about "might not load, use to usb cable to be sure"23:40
DocScrutinizerif they have such limitations then because of their messed up bme implementation that probably doesn't know how to detect the fastcharger23:40
DocScrutinizermusb_hdrc driver implemetation might be related somehow as well23:41
DocScrutinizeras charger detection is a task of musb_hdrc USB driver23:42
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DocScrutinizeruse ShadowJK 's charger script and profit ;-P23:42
DocScrutinizerguaranteed to work with fastcharger23:43
DocScrutinizereven unde meegoCE (as long as they don't completely mess up sysfs)23:43
DocScrutinizerno, fastcharger works like a charm for N95023:44
* DocScrutinizer ponders where to dump this particular factoid to...23:45
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DocScrutinizermaybe make Jaffa add it to his "first encounter" compendium?23:46
DocScrutinizerJaffa: ^^^23:46
gri_btw, my n950 was missing the "0" at the first start ;)23:47
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DocScrutinizerhey, "0" here23:49
DocScrutinizeryesterday it was "9"23:49
DocScrutinizermight be timezone and moonphase dependent23:50
gri_second boot was also cool: contacts application said "no contacts" whereas the call-ui showed all contacts23:50
* DocScrutinizer would so much appreciate to see Nokia opening up nb-tracker to public read access23:50
DocScrutinizerall contacts???? where from?23:51
gri_copied from n90023:51
DocScrutinizercopied as in...?23:51
gri_like jaffa wrote in the wiki23:51
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* ShadowJK has a different version for meegoCE in N90023:52
ShadowJKN950 didn't come with a wallcharger?23:54
gri_only phone and usb cable23:55
cehtehhehe prolly the same for the N9 .. the really dont want you to like it23:55
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: nope23:55
cehtehif you want a wallcharger, buy the WP7 Phone23:55
DocScrutinizernonsense :-D23:55
ShadowJKusb is slooow23:56
DocScrutinizerwallchargers would create need for localized packaging23:56
ShadowJKthough I do have one hub I can get 700-800mA out of23:56
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: won't fly, unless your hub has D+- short23:56
cehtehDocScrutinizer: not really .. almost any device which has a small wallcharger i have came with a adaptor for the plug23:56
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cehtehwell the n900 wallcharger should work for the n950 too23:57
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, well my script ignores d+/d- ;)23:57
DocScrutinizeran adapter wouldn't fit into the box ;-P23:57
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: :-D23:57
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: *I* know that23:57
cehtehbtw i now tried your script with the bike charger on a trip, seems it doesnt work well23:58
DocScrutinizerI think I'm the father of all charger scripts ;-)23:58
ShadowJKAmusingly: powered hub - self powered hub - n900 and it barely stays at +-0 current with screen on23:58
cehtehnext i aim for a cap in the charger cable then look ahead23:58
ShadowJKcehteh, I'd imagine alot of Undervoltage faults in the log23:58
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cehtehShadowJK: yes the n900 can suck more than 500ma constantly .. netradio and some other app are enough23:59
cehtehShadowJK: right23:59
DocScrutinizerand how exactly does that matter?23:59
cehtehShadowJK: would be nice to make it back off the current and gracfully restart23:59
ShadowJKIn other news, google lost patent lawsuit and has to pay 5 million un damages for using *drumroll* a linked list23:59
DocScrutinizeris your bike charger so weak it can't deliver >500mA?23:59

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