IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-07-06

ico2	right, i'm off now, cheers again all	00:00
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MohammadAG	time to patch that initrd	00:00
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MohammadAG	seems like many users need to use it	00:00
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javispedro	wtf	00:05
RST38h	?	00:05
javispedro	meego netbook thinks I have an ssd for some reason.	00:05
* NIN101 wonders how the initrd deals with watchdogs		00:05
RST38h	it is letting you know it istime for an upgrade	00:06
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vdv	hi all	00:07
vdv	is there any pdf reader for maemo which supports reflowing documents?	00:08
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, latest initrd has keymaps working	00:25
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vdv	how can i check which firmware version is currently installed on my n900?	00:31
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javispedro	Settings -> About my device.	00:31
ShadowJK	settings - about product	00:31
ShadowJK	or that	00:31
keesj	I really want a n900-updated-hardware	00:32
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: wow	00:32
vdv	but there's not written whether it's PR1.3 or not	00:32
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, options not working though for some reason	00:32
vdv	Version: 10.2010.19-1	00:32
Noobmonk3y	evening alls :) - random linux nooby question! :) - just installed linux (again) then dloaded the qt sdk.run file.... double clicking doesnt do anything - do i need to use terminal etc?	00:32
DocScrutinizer51	options?	00:32
javispedro	vdv: that's pr 1.2 iirc.	00:32
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, chmod +x and ./filename here	00:33
ShadowJK	Noobmonk3y, terminal, "chmod +x qtsdk.run", "./qtsdk.run"	00:33
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, C/H/M/N etc	00:33
MohammadAG	they're all ignored	00:33
DocScrutinizer51	ooh	00:33
Noobmonk3y	bahhh now i need to find terminal, wtf is up with the seriously crappy applications menu and no easily visible task menu?	00:33
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MohammadAG	but the keymap works	00:33
Corsac	Alt-f2?	00:33
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, Ubuntu?	00:34
Noobmonk3y	lol all that does is display the shit menu!	00:34
Noobmonk3y	yeah :(	00:34
Noobmonk3y	i'd slike to slap it with a trout... might make it easier to use? :)	00:34
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: ubi support?	00:34
Corsac	maybe you're not qualified to use ubuntu	00:34
Noobmonk3y	Corsac, .... how does ubuntu want to get new users? :P lol	00:34
Corsac	maybe you're not the kind of user they want?	00:35
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, can't check if options are ignored	00:35
MohammadAG	but the source references ubifs	00:35
Noobmonk3y	lol corsac	00:35
DocScrutinizer51	I hope I'm not the kind of user buntkuh wants	00:35
MohammadAG	terminal is gnome-terminal	00:35
Noobmonk3y	ok, stupid, question if i minimize something in windows, i can see it on the taskbar.... it just vanishes on ubuntu	00:36
NIN101	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd This here has an ubifs.ko	00:36
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, don't use Unity	00:36
Noobmonk3y	ohhhhhhhhhh	00:36
Noobmonk3y	frals warned me about this crap!	00:36
Noobmonk3y	but i didnt see any option to turn it off :)	00:36
MohammadAG	log out	00:36
MohammadAG	click your username	00:36
MohammadAG	look at the bottom of the screen, session type or something	00:36
MohammadAG	pick ubuntu classic, log back in	00:37
Noobmonk3y	ooo ok, yay! will go try! :) :)	00:37
MohammadAG	NIN101, lacks some stuff to actually work	00:37
NIN101	yes.	00:37
MohammadAG	/ban Noobmonk3y	00:37
MohammadAG	:P	00:37
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Corsac	if he didn't find that by himself, maybe he deserves unity	00:37
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Noobmonk3y	ahhhh this is better! soooo soooo much better!	00:39
Noobmonk3y	thank you very very much MohammadAG :) :)	00:39
Noobmonk3y	right now i can actually get on with stuff!	00:39
DocScrutinizer51	anyway being able to get digits and - and / and = on a cmdline is a good step forward for rescueinitrd	00:40
DocScrutinizer51	now make mounting ubi0 possible and the thing starts to become a useful tool	00:41
Noobmonk3y	any recommendations on where, where not to install the qtsdk?	00:42
Noobmonk3y	ie not in home , or must be in home blah blah	00:42
Corsac	try /dev/shm/	00:42
MohammadAG	run the script as user, not root	00:43
DocScrutinizer51	ot anywhere where you got less than 3GB free	00:43
Noobmonk3y	Corsac, after your last comments, do i take you seriously or not?	00:43
NIN101	I ask myself why nobody created a working one yet in all the years.	00:43
DocScrutinizer51	NIN101: initrd?	00:44
NIN101	yes	00:44
DocScrutinizer51	meego guys don't need it ;-)	00:45
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, 3GBs	00:46
MohammadAG	?	00:46
MySpaez	heh	00:46
MohammadAG	you sure about that?	00:46
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MohammadAG	5.3GQtSDK	00:46
NIN101	now the meego kernel boots microsd through a magical way, it is build with CONFIG_CMDLINE="root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 bla bla bla". So, if I am understand this right, for NOLO mmcblk0* is the microsd, right?	00:48
MohammadAG	yes	00:49
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NIN101	ok, thx	00:49
MohammadAG	naming is a bit stupid	00:49
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MohammadAG	with an eMMC and uSD in, mmcblk0 is the uSD, 1 is the eMMC	00:49
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MohammadAG	without a uSD, mmcblk0 is the eMMC	00:49
MySpaez	is there a wallet style keyboard for n9?	00:50
macmaN	MySpaez: what dat iz?	00:51
MySpaez	A leather or plastic case with fold-out keyboard	00:52
MySpaez	They make em for tablets	00:52
cehteh	bluetooth?	00:52
MySpaez	Ya	00:52
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macmaN	ahh okey, you meant hw device	01:01
macmaN	i thought it mightve been a vkb	01:02
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: (3GB) obviously I'm not sure - download of 1.1GB finished some minutes ago	01:39
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DocScrutinizer	MySpaez: the problem frequently is the BT coonection which you can'T keep esablished all the time or your battery will drain fairly fast	01:41
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MySpaez	im sad for the maemo	01:43
MySpaez	wish i could have made the 770 popular like iphone	01:44
MySpaez	i tried	01:44
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timeless	anyone here familiar w/ MGCP or H.248/Megaco ?	01:53
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* alterego held an N950 today		02:09
alterego	woo!	02:09
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alterego	I was offered one too, but had to turn it down.	02:13
* alterego is sad :)		02:13
GeneralAntilles	Why?	02:13
GeneralAntilles	Just offer your Community device to the next person in line.	02:14
javispedro	abill_uk.	02:17
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SpeedEvil	:)	02:18
DocScrutinizer	COUGH	02:19
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merlin1991	alterego: me me me me wants a n950 ;)	02:23
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* DocScrutinizer searches for the unicode page for musical notes		02:26
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* DocScrutinizer offers chanson, hooligan style, and child song melody for merlin1991		02:27
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: U+1D100 ff	02:27
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Termana	good morning	02:28
DocScrutinizer	~trout Termana	02:28
* infobot slaps Termana around a bit with a large trout!		02:28
cehteh	𝄞𝄚	02:29
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT2GLdWrqLM just replace hulahoop with n950 ;)	02:29
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DocScrutinizer	>> Leider ist dieses Video in Deutschland nicht verfügbar, da es Musik enthalten könnte, für die die GEMA die erforderlichen Musikrechte nicht eingeräumt hat. Das tut uns leid.<<	02:30
merlin1991	ffs	02:30
Termana	DocScrutinizer, what was that for? :p	02:30
DocScrutinizer	for highlighting me about a completely nonsensical "joerg" issue some 18h ago :-)	02:31
DocScrutinizer	also for CTCP-VERSIONing me	02:31
nox-	seems you have memory like an elephant :)	02:31
Termana	DocScrutinizer, lol, I saw that hiemanshu said something to you about it. No sense of humour it seems :p	02:32
DocScrutinizer	elephants bow down in awe	02:32
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: damn, Konversation fails on that one - unusual	02:34
cehteh	:P	02:34
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: probably not in my font pool	02:34
DocScrutinizer	Termana: my sense of humour for sure is weird, but actually the trout was a joke	02:37
javispedro	mwahaha, success.	02:37
Termana	I know :p	02:37
javispedro	lcuk: there?	02:37
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: eh?	02:37
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: my multitouch stuff.	02:38
DocScrutinizer	\o/	02:38
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DocScrutinizer	congrats	02:38
javispedro	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2Jeo4YUkk	02:38
DocScrutinizer	with #define MAXFINGERS 10 ?	02:39
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javispedro	the boobies test!	02:39
javispedro	yes, it's now called SDL_MAXMOUSE, and it's 10 =)	02:39
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: now WTF is THIS?	02:40
DocScrutinizer	lcuk's optical input?	02:40
javispedro	no, way simpler.	02:40
DocScrutinizer	invar	02:40
javispedro	I'm just making standard c-ts MT available to sdl apps.	02:41
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV7nceF0sio maybe gema isn't as evil on this one	02:41
DocScrutinizer	it damn looks like dunno a plain sheet of paper or .... (me is puzzled)	02:41
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: because it's just the library. Now it's waiting for someone to put the game on it ;)	02:42
MohammadAG	alterego, I hate you	02:42
MohammadAG	you could've sent it to me	02:42
MohammadAG	and I'd give my N950 to someone else	02:42
merlin1991	MohammadAG: you're going to get one / got one?	02:42
javispedro	either way, the video was for lcuk ;)	02:42
MohammadAG	merlin1991, yes, but I'm leaving IL on Sunday	02:43
DocScrutinizer	aaaah spotted the "Lenovo" writing	02:43
MohammadAG	so I need someone to ship it to me	02:43
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: yes, testing on it while waiting for N950..	02:43
MohammadAG	luckily I found the perfect iPhone user who's guaranteed not to take a Nokia	02:43
javispedro	cause while not the same driver both seem to use the same reporting style.	02:43
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: thought almost that's a plain sheet of white paper	02:44
javispedro	sssht ;P	02:44
javispedro	ok, ok, I'll fill more of the description.	02:44
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MohammadAG	devel-su: su tool adapted to MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan platform security	02:48
MohammadAG	apparently that's the equivalent of gainroot	02:48
javispedro	been reading about it a bit, apparently it also does some tricks with aegis capabilities	02:49
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DocScrutinizer	~aegis	02:50
infobot	aegis is, like, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism	02:50
* DocScrutinizer barks like one of Pavlov's dogs		02:50
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DocScrutinizer	~bark	02:51
* infobot barks, like a rabid dog.		02:51
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: yes, that one worked, alas that voice wouldn't get decoded by my audio processor even if it were plain German	02:52
javispedro	I have to say either that this XInput2 MT API looked good right until I realized that since it mostly just bypasses kernel data, well, coordinates are physical but normalized 0 ... 1 no matter what the resolution, your window size, or your window position is.	02:52
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javispedro	which, obviously, sucks, unless your application is a fullscreen one on a single-window window manager (like the harmattan use case)	02:53
MohammadAG	# dpkg -i package_name.deb	02:53
MohammadAG	Aegis rejecting package_name.deb: package 'package_name' already installed from 'source_name' -- not replacing it from unknown origin	02:53
MohammadAG	ooh fun	02:53
SpeedEvil	You mean you have to scale for your window size?	02:53
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MohammadAG	makes a CSSU harder	02:53
javispedro	SpeedEvil: yep.	02:53
SpeedEvil	Eww	02:53
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: MUHAHAHA	02:53
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: even worse: trim	02:54
SpeedEvil	oh	02:54
SpeedEvil	:/	02:54
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: hail Aegis	02:55
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, apparently you have to have an aegis file under debian/ which shows what your app needs to access	02:55
MohammadAG	e.g cellular modem, location etc	02:55
javispedro	I was thinking how Qt does the scaling when I realized that it doesn't need to. After all, meegotouch qt apps always run fullscreen...	02:55
* DocScrutinizer bounces up and down the room like a rubber ball, laughing evilly and shouting "AEGIS" "AEGIS"		02:56
javispedro	MohammadAG: it's autogenerated from function calls if meegotouch app	02:56
javispedro	and I think they made something for qml	02:56
MohammadAG	who uses MTF? it's deprecated in 1.3	02:56
javispedro	obviously, the rest of us are forced to learn the abomination.	02:56
MohammadAG	anyway, interesting(?) read http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html	02:57
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders how much of an effort it'd be to NUKE AEGIS for good		02:58
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DocScrutinizer	CSSU will flourish, we need replacements for all aegis-locked apps	02:58
javispedro	now, I at least think that this part of aegis is the good one	02:59
javispedro	this is the one that does app isolation and no "any app can delete all your contacts"	02:59
DocScrutinizer	Ithink aegis isn't handleable, like a can of trinitroglycerine	02:59
MohammadAG	The one thing I like about Aegis is that something like theme-customizer can't replace hildon-home without asking	03:00
MohammadAG	which caused us quite a lot of duplicate bug reports	03:00
DocScrutinizer	hah, only until it got a signature	03:01
* MohammadAG considers pranking someone and sending them a "A Nokia N950 is waiting for you" email		03:01
DocScrutinizer	once it has a signed manifest, it will replace you without any asking	03:02
DocScrutinizer	and Aegis makes sure you won't come back	03:02
javispedro	and then it will hide your socks and buy iphones to your friends.	03:03
DocScrutinizer	quite possible	03:03
MohammadAG	so no santa this year?	03:03
DocScrutinizer	access to socks is a restricted resource controlled by aegis for sure ;-P	03:03
javispedro	OMG	03:04
javispedro	another n950 shiped..	03:04
javispedro	bastard.	03:04
DocScrutinizer	WUT	03:04
DocScrutinizer	THIS TIME?	03:04
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javispedro	"Today, 01:50 AM"	03:04
javispedro	that's post date&time	03:04
javispedro	the guy clearly was not hitting F5 in timely manner...	03:05
MohammadAG	wow, my prank worked worse than expected then	03:05
javispedro	"- While applying it said expected delivery 1 week	03:05
javispedro	- never got any confirmation or mail from launchpad "	03:05
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javispedro	err.. linkie http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25061&postcount=440	03:06
DocScrutinizer	hmmmmmmm :-S	03:06
MohammadAG	1 week expected delivery :S	03:06
GeneralAntilles	DHL is overnight	03:06
GeneralAntilles	So, expect it quickly when it ships.	03:06
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: LOL	03:06
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, problem is, this makes me reconsider	03:07
GeneralAntilles	I wonder how they're processing people.	03:07
GeneralAntilles	This seems ridiculously slow.	03:07
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MohammadAG	when I asked qgil about my DDP N900...	03:07
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: send your prank to yourself!	03:07
GeneralAntilles	I mean, if they had gotten a few dozen out today, I could understand that.	03:07
javispedro	even DHL, if it doesn't ship by thursday morning, forget about having it this week.	03:07
MohammadAG	He replied on a saturday that he didn't send it	03:07
MohammadAG	I got it on wednesday	03:07
MohammadAG	Package was sent from HEL	03:08
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, do remember that some people don't post on forums	03:08
MohammadAG	I saw names on the wiki I never heard of	03:09
GeneralAntilles	True	03:09
* merlin1991 is reading the security faq, seems like you can run shell scripts without restrictions		03:09
GeneralAntilles	But if you figure a random distribution.	03:09
GeneralAntilles	Then the likelihood is that we'd get more than one person saying it shipped.	03:09
MohammadAG	merlin1991, not the ./ way	03:09
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: LOL, sure. Only the script has restrictions	03:09
merlin1991	"sh " vs "./"	03:10
MohammadAG	well, andre_ got his	03:10
MohammadAG	so did X-Fade, we never heard of them anymore	03:10
MohammadAG	might be aegis preventing irggi from running	03:10
DocScrutinizer	:-P	03:10
merlin1991	MohammadAG: don't open you n950 package, it's a biological weapon sent from microsoft to prevent spreading of open source !	03:11
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MohammadAG	merlin1991, I GOT DIS	03:11
javispedro	remember how I said days ago	03:12
javispedro	launchpad applications would be processed one by one, and in reverse arrival order?	03:12
DocScrutinizer	I bet they are	03:12
Termana	javispedro, that's how it's happening?	03:12
MohammadAG	doubt it, first batch got their emails	03:13
MohammadAG	well, 5 of them	03:13
DocScrutinizer	pile up papers on a stack, then process from top-down	03:13
javispedro	except for the big four, see this "saturn" guy.	03:13
DocScrutinizer	I bet he's batch 6	03:13
MohammadAG	seriously, this can be done quicker with a script	03:14
DocScrutinizer	the alphabetically last of batch 7	03:14
MohammadAG	or with Qt	03:14
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javispedro	I bet that a printer, tons of paper, a wooden table, and a scanner are involved in the process.	03:14
GAN900	Forum Nokia is still Forum Nokia	03:14
GAN900	whatever the name	03:14
MohammadAG	expose the process via an API	03:14
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MohammadAG	make a QStringList with all IDs, HTTP POST	03:14
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MohammadAG	and you're done in an hour max	03:15
* DocScrutinizer hits mohammad		03:15
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javispedro	watch your system die under the load of thousands of n950 owner wanna bes.	03:15
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you're crazy, do you know how long it will take to get the API thru UX designer and lawyer department?	03:15
MohammadAG	API and UX designers? wtf	03:16
DocScrutinizer	you don't think anything happens without OK from UX designers?	03:17
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javispedro	they might want to design a Apple-like Core* logo for your 3-line Web API.	03:17
DocScrutinizer	probably even Quim is considered part of the meego UX and they tell him what to eat	03:17
merlin1991	did anyone ever point out that 90% of the people talking in here are close to insane?	03:18
GeneralAntilles	merlin1991, hush.	03:18
DocScrutinizer	ooh only 90	03:18
Termana	merlin1991, prerequisite to getting an N950	03:18
merlin1991	Termana: I knew I'm doing something wrong ;)	03:19
DocScrutinizer	tell me whom to kick for not matching the channel rules	03:19
javispedro	hey, 90% is the average for humanity.	03:19
javispedro	that must mean we're quite good.	03:19
merlin1991	also, do we have 10 active persons atm, or is someone only 85% insane? :D	03:19
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DocScrutinizer	I'm 745% insane	03:20
javispedro	I'm 7 times as insane as DocScrutinizer.	03:20
DocScrutinizer	so don't worry, I'll compensate	03:20
merlin1991	somehow the MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan Developer Library makes me feel it's written for idiots: "All applications are automatically terminated when the device is shut down."	03:21
Termana	wow, this actually explains a lot.	03:21
DocScrutinizer	ROTFL	03:21
merlin1991	no if you shut down the devices the magic fairy will kepp some apps alive	03:21
merlin1991	s/kepp/keep/	03:21
infobot	merlin1991 meant: no if you shut down the devices the magic fairy will keep some apps alive	03:21
javispedro	merlin1991: it depends on your definition of shut down.	03:21
javispedro	some devices (specially PDAs) didn't have a traditional sense shutdown mode, but rather only suspend.	03:22
DocScrutinizer	no, it depends of the def of "terminated"	03:22
javispedro	touché.	03:22
merlin1991	I bet you guys laugh @ metajokes too ;)	03:22
DocScrutinizer	the whole statement makes sense with a lil "gracefully"	03:22
javispedro	either way, on a PalmOS book you could very well read that "app state is saved after turning off the handheld".	03:22
DocScrutinizer	though I actually wonder if that's what they meant to say	03:23
javispedro	maybe it's a unixism and they're talking about SIGTERMs.	03:23
DocScrutinizer	that's what I got first	03:24
* DocScrutinizer can't hide he's thinking binary		03:24
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javispedro	in which case it is also entirely correct and nice to know (if your app survives the X11 server being terminated first...)	03:24
MohammadAG	you got statistics to back up that 90% claim merlin1991?	03:24
Termana	DocScrutinizer, put that thing away you dirty old man	03:25
merlin1991	MohammadAG: don't you know the #1 rule about statistics?	03:25
Termana	swinging about your thinking binary	03:25
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: he's just over-optimistic	03:25
merlin1991	only trust the ones you faked yourself!	03:25
MohammadAG	let's review the possibilities javispedro	03:25
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MohammadAG	if it's Qt, it segfaults	03:25
MohammadAG	MTF is based on Qt, refer to 1	03:25
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MohammadAG	QML uses Qt, in a way, refer to 1	03:25
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MohammadAG	Gtk apps segfault	03:26
DocScrutinizer	hah, my daemon survives	03:26
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merlin1991	Gtk?	03:26
javispedro	aegis kills DocScrutinizer's daemon.	03:26
merlin1991	I thought there is no such thing in a Qt Ecosystem	03:26
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, invoker probably calls the daemon, invoker segfaults	03:26
Termana	heh	03:26
MohammadAG	merlin1991, they need gconf	03:27
DocScrutinizer	but then a daemon clearly isn't an app	03:27
MohammadAG	gconf needs glib	03:27
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MohammadAG	gtk can run on a glib-enabled system	03:27
merlin1991	so platform api -> gtk -> profit?	03:27
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, only when applying for an N950	03:27
DocScrutinizer	touche	03:27
DocScrutinizer	DDP created a whole new meaning of "app"	03:28
javispedro	man, if this is the crew that is supposed to get apps.meego.com "filled" by the end of the year, we are sooooo doomed.	03:28
merlin1991	stop using tlas, ddp as in what?	03:28
MohammadAG	javispedro, muhahahaha	03:29
DocScrutinizer	device distribution program?	03:29
javispedro	developer device program iirc	03:29
javispedro	at least in n900 times..	03:29
merlin1991	how good is the remote device access thingy for developing?	03:29
* merlin1991 thinks about starting todo something despite no n950		03:30
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: thanks, obviously time for some relax	03:31
DocScrutinizer	ing	03:31
javispedro	indeed.	03:31
DocScrutinizer	meh	03:31
DocScrutinizer	>>Device Distribution program<<	03:32
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javispedro	I hate mutter.	03:32
DocScrutinizer	https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP	03:32
DocScrutinizer	~lart javispedro	03:32
* infobot burns javispedro to a crisp with a laser		03:32
javispedro	so, do I lose my DDP for failing to resolve a TLA?	03:32
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you really made me doubt my own selfcheck functions	03:32
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: last time I checked all 5 N950 were offline	03:34
* DocScrutinizer blames MohammadAG		03:35
merlin1991	so much for that idea :/	03:35
DocScrutinizer	he probably erased CAL	03:35
DocScrutinizer	;-P	03:35
DocScrutinizer	>>There are some N950s available in RDA now. It's good to keep in mind that N950, including its device software, is not a commercial device and the quality/feature set of N950 is of beta quality. There are also some technical limitations/issues with the RDA implementation for this device, such as that screen orientation change doesn't currently work (so display appears sideways the menu view), application installer uses currently pkgmgr	03:36
DocScrutinizer	instead of dpkg etc. We are currently looking into these. Eventually our intention is to replace this device with N9s.<<	03:36
merlin1991	I guess I'll just have to rob someones n950 then	03:37
* merlin1991 wonders if thp go / applied for one, that would be a close and possible target insane laugh		03:38
DocScrutinizer	hmm, right now in "reservations" all 5 are available	03:38
MohammadAG	merlin1991, he already has it	03:38
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merlin1991	I'm the outsider here, no n950 and no chance of one :D	03:40
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: I got one of the 5 reserved for next 15min	03:41
DocScrutinizer	there are 4 free to grab right now	03:41
DocScrutinizer	I'll cancel my reservation	03:41
DocScrutinizer	so you got 5 to choose from	03:41
merlin1991	:D	03:42
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merlin1991	I'm a lil confused right now, apps.meego.com would be the community obs / community packages and the nokia way would be ovi store?	03:42
merlin1991	or is the community repo yet another source?	03:43
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DocScrutinizer	nfc	03:44
DocScrutinizer	sorry	03:44
DocScrutinizer	grab your N950!	03:44
DocScrutinizer	http://apu.ndhub.net/devices	03:44
Termana	DocScrutinizer, wtf is this?	03:46
Termana	nevermind	03:47
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cehteh	Nokia N950 Developer Kit programme is closed at this time	03:50
cehteh	Thank you for your interest in publishing apps for the Nokia N9 smartphone. We have received a tremendous response to our offer for the Nokia N950 developer kit, and can no longer accept any new requests.	03:50
cehteh	.. muahaha	03:51
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SpeedEvil	cehteh: meh	03:51
javispedro	they are serious	03:51
cehteh	"You want it, We kill it!"	03:51
javispedro	by now they are probably still handling applications that want the free n8.	03:52
cehteh	when will the wp7 phone be released?	03:52
cehteh	i dont want to miss to see it fail :P	03:52
cehteh	and i hope that will be the last nail at the coffin for elop	03:53
javispedro	the day before the n9 is.	03:53
cehteh	good :)	03:53
cehteh	the sooner the better	03:53
javispedro	it will also be half the price of the n9.	03:53
cehteh	yes	03:53
javispedro	and double the core frequency.	03:53
cehteh	and double as much ram :)	03:53
cehteh	and you get 500 free SMS with it	03:54
javispedro	that I would never believe :)	03:54
javispedro	(ram)	03:54
cehteh	haha	03:54
cehteh	and it will still fail	03:54
cehteh	is there any active community around it? or users worshipping wp7? ... or anyone educated interested in it?	03:55
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DocScrutinizer	OMG feelings like with first M$windows on a box without GFX accel	03:55
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cehteh	there may be some fools who think "Windows .. hey thats on my computer i want that" .. but that all	03:55
DocScrutinizer	this RDA N950 might be fast as hell, my desktop, on showing the screen, definitely isn't	03:56
Termana	DocScrutinizer, bunch of junk	03:56
DocScrutinizer	reaction to a swipe takes like 60s	03:56
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Termana	I couldn't get into anything, it just kept going to the close or rearrange icons	03:56
SpeedEvil	clicking on a reserved device just gives me a downloadable jnlp file	03:57
DocScrutinizer	haha	03:57
SpeedEvil	In firefox	03:57
SpeedEvil	anyone had it working?	03:57
DocScrutinizer	yeah, you need to start that	03:57
SpeedEvil	how?	03:57
Termana	SpeedEvil, java webstart	03:57
DocScrutinizer	execute, in FF	03:57
SpeedEvil	execute in ff?	03:57
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DocScrutinizer	FF asked me "download" or "open (with)"	03:57
DocScrutinizer	I clicked "open"	03:58
* javispedro calls it a day -- gnite!		03:58
SpeedEvil	open with what though?	03:58
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: gnite	03:58
DocScrutinizer	whatever that's been that FF suggested	03:58
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Are you on windows?	03:58
DocScrutinizer	nope	03:58
SpeedEvil	hmm	03:59
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SpeedEvil	ah - javaws	04:00
DocScrutinizer	alarm (clock) timepicker is actually the way it should be, no slotmachine \o/	04:02
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merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: yea, responsetime to swipes is extreme	04:04
merlin1991	also for some reason swipes desided to stop working for me oO	04:04
DocScrutinizer	unbearable, basically	04:05
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: was it same lame crook for you?	04:05
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SpeedEvil	On the dev thingy - how do you rotate it to landscape?	04:08
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SpeedEvil	And how do I get to a shell?	04:09
DocScrutinizer	rotate? not at all? see initial notice	04:09
DocScrutinizer	dunno	04:10
SpeedEvil	ah - I misread that	04:10
DocScrutinizer	I didn't read it at all	04:10
DocScrutinizer	just grasped something about orientation	04:10
DocScrutinizer	"not yet working" blabla	04:10
DocScrutinizer	"Camera not responding! Close application?"	04:11
DocScrutinizer	MEH	04:11
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DocScrutinizer	a nifty idea, this RDA. But either my equipment isn't appropriate, or there's something so lame with the device and RDA rack that you can't use it	04:13
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* DocScrutinizer idly wonders how to reboot the remote N950		04:15
SpeedEvil	never got slide to work at all	04:15
SpeedEvil	swipe	04:15
DocScrutinizer	there's been some app running from the guy before me	04:15
SpeedEvil	click the 'hide app' button	04:15
SpeedEvil	on the lkeyboard	04:15
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you need to click close to the border, but inside where cursor still is a hand	04:15
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, what crook?	04:16
DocScrutinizer	RDA	04:16
DocScrutinizer	feels like molasses	04:16
DocScrutinizer	starting up camera took like 60s	04:17
DocScrutinizer	maybe more	04:17
DocScrutinizer	a swipe the same	04:17
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DocScrutinizer	selecting another alarm sound in clock takes 10s to switch the blue highlicght form clock1 to clock3	04:19
DocScrutinizer	it feels like "yeah, this could actually work"	04:20
DocScrutinizer	maybe 1.8GHz are too slow for java	04:21
DocScrutinizer	(no idea about CPU load as I had to run it fullscreen to show the whole thing)	04:22
DocScrutinizer	but then to make it useable I'd need a 20GHz CPU ;-P	04:23
SpeedEvil	Interesting - everything on /home is mounted on 'aegisfs'	04:25
SpeedEvil	Got shell - some of the devices have 'terminal' on	04:25
SpeedEvil	but I can't ping or ssh out	04:25
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DocScrutinizer	hey you got ...9016236?	04:26
SpeedEvil	How do I tell the number?	04:27
DocScrutinizer	no idea how to tell from inside	04:27
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DocScrutinizer	osso-systeminfo?	04:27
SpeedEvil	yes	04:27
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SpeedEvil	to that number	04:27
DocScrutinizer	I get the ser# from "reservations"	04:27
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DocScrutinizer	not exactly crowded	04:28
SpeedEvil	I cheated, and rotated my physical screen.	04:28
DocScrutinizer	I think I'll like the real hw better	04:28
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: there's a rotate menu item in the window's menues	04:29
DocScrutinizer	I gather it's dead	04:29
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: are the characters in shell aslo at a rate of 1 per 10s?	04:30
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: and where you found the xterm? an icon on applauncher screen?	04:31
SpeedEvil	'terminal' right at the top	04:31
DocScrutinizer	mhm	04:31
DocScrutinizer	I'm not eager to start another session right now	04:32
DocScrutinizer	was way too tiring	04:32
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SpeedEvil	Trying to work out if I can punch a ssh out to my net with socks proxying, then ssh back in	04:33
SpeedEvil	so I have sane terminal and stuff	04:33
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DocScrutinizer	basically I spent 12 of my 15min with finding out how long to wait for mouse actions to take effect	04:33
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DocScrutinizer	and I tried all "quality" settings for display, from 6 down to 1, no difference	04:36
DocScrutinizer	except it gets B&W for <=3	04:36
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SpeedEvil	Oh - it has tv out	04:48
DocScrutinizer	\o/	04:48
SpeedEvil	settings -> accessories	04:49
* DocScrutinizer muses about serial numbers, which best are read RTL, and just one is completely another batch		04:49
SpeedEvil	I don't understand how browsing works.	04:49
SpeedEvil	wget can't get dns resolution, and no proxy is configured	04:49
DocScrutinizer	4 of the 5 are like 510, 220, 610, 410	04:51
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: probably you're not "online"	04:52
SpeedEvil	I know - browser can get to the web though	04:53
DocScrutinizer	o.O	04:53
SpeedEvil	And no proxy set	04:53
DocScrutinizer	ifconfig?	04:54
DocScrutinizer	route?	04:54
SpeedEvil	Oops - I may have broken it.	04:54
DocScrutinizer	LOL	04:55
SpeedEvil	It's not resolving anymore	04:55
DocScrutinizer	~xyawn	04:55
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is big coffee	04:55
DocScrutinizer	~cheers	04:55
infobot	happy christmahanakwanzakuh!	04:55
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GAN900	graaarrrrr	05:00
SpeedEvil	Ok.	05:00
GAN900	I want my N950	05:00
SpeedEvil	When you haven't turned the internet off, you can ssh out.	05:01
SpeedEvil	Doh.	05:01
SpeedEvil	And good luck to the person that gets that net tunneling into my system as I've removed the port forward. ;)	05:02
SpeedEvil	neNeed to setup a user I truly don't care about, for obvious treaons	05:02
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SpeedEvil	Then it should be easy to get back in over the ssh connection, and deal with it with a sane terminal.	05:04
DocScrutinizer	I think MohammadAG did that	05:05
SpeedEvil	yeah - I got to the point where it showed me my ssh fingerprint - and at that point - it's just tediosity to get it working	05:05
DocScrutinizer	I gather you're not considering this browser&java based remote thing a sane shell access	05:06
SpeedEvil	No.	05:06
SpeedEvil	No scrollback, can't copy+paste, ...	05:06
MohammadAG	did what?	05:07
DocScrutinizer	I regularly get headache with ssh portforwards	05:07
MohammadAG	reverse ssh?	05:07
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: ssh'd into a rdp device	05:07
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: log in to N950 via ssh	05:07
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MohammadAG	you need a server	05:07
SpeedEvil	I was just going to setup a socks proxy locally and go through that	05:07
holmesII	hi everyone, i am trying to gain battery information.	05:08
holmesII	is there anyone can help me?	05:08
MohammadAG	either one on your PC, or a remote server	05:08
SpeedEvil	?	05:08
holmesII	i don't know how to write a C code to get battery information.	05:08
SpeedEvil	what do you mean by 'a server' ?	05:08
holmesII	need some simple example for help	05:08
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: which battery information?	05:08
MohammadAG	openssh-server	05:08
MohammadAG	which can be accessed from an external device	05:08
holmesII	like charge level	05:08
MohammadAG	so basically	05:08
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: you just mean a box into which you can ssh?	05:09
MohammadAG	ssh -R2222:localhost:22 user@server	05:09
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, yes	05:09
SpeedEvil	yeah - that	05:09
SpeedEvil	then ssh localhost -p2222	05:09
holmesII	like Current battery capacity (mAh)	05:09
SpeedEvil	and to the dev device	05:09
SpeedEvil	Oh.	05:09
MohammadAG	then on your PC, ssh -p 2222 root@localhost	05:09
MohammadAG	yes	05:09
SpeedEvil	What's the password?	05:09
MohammadAG	rootme	05:09
SpeedEvil	ah	05:09
holmesII	many thanks to who can help me!!	05:09
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: there's such info in HAL	05:10
DocScrutinizer	lshal\|grep battery	05:10
SpeedEvil	holmesII: hal gives you an indication.	05:10
holmesII	yes. but how can i get it with my C code?	05:10
SpeedEvil	Work out how to call hal	05:10
DocScrutinizer	check what lshal does	05:10
MohammadAG	https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-area-applet-battery/blobs/master/src/status-area-applet-battery.c like this	05:10
holmesII	i am not familiar with HAL	05:10
SpeedEvil	or that	05:10
MohammadAG	FYI, that's missing a libhal_ctx_init call, which I have locally but haven't committed it yet	05:11
MohammadAG	between lines 199 and 200	05:11
MohammadAG	but it works	05:11
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: isn't that direct access to bq27200?	05:11
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, no	05:11
DocScrutinizer	ooh, ok	05:11
MohammadAG	I don't know bq2700	05:12
MohammadAG	27200 even	05:12
DocScrutinizer	good	05:12
MohammadAG	but it'll never make it into the CSSU till I add sounds	05:12
SpeedEvil	Hal is basically a lie.	05:12
MohammadAG	libcanberra isn't that friendly	05:12
SpeedEvil	But it's the same lie that the device knows - so ...	05:12
* DocScrutinizer burrps in libcanberra's general direction		05:13
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MohammadAG	oh and it doesn't detect battery low/empty yet, I know how, just haven't implemented it	05:15
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: holmesII just wants charge, nothing more sophisticated :-)	05:15
holmesII	i just want to get the battery.reporting.current = 956 (0x3bc) (int)	05:16
holmesII	that's it.	05:16
DocScrutinizer	see the link MohammadAG posted	05:17
jonwil	hmmm, interesting comment from that ex-Nokia guy. He basically said "Opening MCE was hard because there was concern from management about possible valuable IP in there"	05:18
GAN900	l o l	05:18
GAN900	Nokia management needs to be downsized	05:18
GAN900	That's the only thing that'll save the company.	05:18
* DocScrutinizer wonders about the amount of valuable IP in Nokia management		05:19
DocScrutinizer	holmesII:	05:20
DocScrutinizer	[2011-07-06 04:10:47] <MohammadAG> https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-area-applet-battery/blobs/master/src/status-area-applet-battery.c like this	05:20
DocScrutinizer	[2011-07-06 04:10:48] <holmesII> i am not familiar with HAL	05:20
DocScrutinizer	and please post your questions in channel, not in private query	05:20
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: if you lost your IRC client's backscroll, there's also a chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog	05:21
holmesII	MANY THANKS TO YOU GUYS!!!! I just downloaded it. I will read it. If I can't understand, I will back to you. Again, Thank you you two!	05:22
Termana	OMG!!!1111!!!	05:23
Termana	:p	05:23
MohammadAG	Termana, you really deserve a troll of the day award	05:23
SpeedEvil	jonwil: I suppose the 'right' way to determine that is to pass it through a lawyer to check for patentable stuff first. :/	05:23
Termana	MohammadAG, TROLOLOLOLO	05:24
Termana	:p	05:24
DocScrutinizer	he got the star in hall of fame for that	05:24
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, trolls are usually stupid, this one is the complete opposite	05:25
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you bet it's exactly that	05:25
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: makes things worse ;-P	05:25
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I mean, taking my idea of pranking someone with an N950 email and using it against me	05:26
MohammadAG	damn, that's just, gold	05:26
trx	lol	05:28
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Termana	There is one downside - it's a situation of the boy who cried wolf, if I say anything serious about the N950 DDP no one will believe a word I say :p	05:28
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MohammadAG	well, the only thing that gave it away was that Nokia doesn't use tinyurls pointing to youtube	05:29
MohammadAG	Termana, what was the vid btw?	05:29
holmesII	when i make it, i got "Package hildon-1 was not found in the pkg-config search path" error	05:29
internetishard	hey, my n900 just staying making a faint high pitched hissing sound instead of vibrating... any ideas?	05:29
holmesII	and other packages .	05:29
MohammadAG	holmesII, you need some -dev packages	05:29
Termana	MohammadAG, you didn't watch it? :p It was Rick Astley of course.	05:29
MohammadAG	libhildon-dev I think	05:29
MohammadAG	Termana, no, I didn't :P	05:30
MohammadAG	But rick rolling has improved, there's Nyan Cat now	05:30
Termana	MohammadAG, next time I should a) use an actual publicised email (which I didn't see on the forum) b) use a shorting service that doesn't allow previews and c) use that Dimitri guy instead	05:31
MohammadAG	Termana, the email is correct	05:31
holmesII	i tried, i can't find it in my repository.	05:31
holmesII	cound't find package libhildon-dev	05:32
MohammadAG	you're building in scratchbox right?	05:32
holmesII	i don't know where i build it. i am running by SSH connection.	05:32
holmesII	now i am trying to install it in x terminal	05:33
MohammadAG	err	05:33
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holmesII	the same result.	05:33
MohammadAG	you can't build it on the N900	05:33
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MohammadAG	~maemosdk	05:34
infobot	well, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	05:34
holmesII	hmmmm. but i am using N900 with meamo	05:34
MohammadAG	see that	05:34
MohammadAG	anyway, gotta sleep	05:34
MohammadAG	if you run into anything with sdk installation I'm sure someone can help	05:34
MohammadAG	night	05:35
holmesII	ok. good night. see you tomorrow~~	05:35
DocScrutinizer	for building native on target, there are few users that actually do that	05:35
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DocScrutinizer	you for sure must have done quite some installing effort to get gcc to run on N900 at all	05:36
holmesII	i can run gcc now.	05:37
DocScrutinizer	it's however not the "usual" way to build binaries for maemo, nor is it well documented or supported	05:37
holmesII	and make	05:37
holmesII	however, i have a lot of stuffs that i don't understand.	05:38
holmesII	just got a N900 phone today.	05:38
DocScrutinizer	sure, but with gcc pkg alone your rootfs will probably fill up to the limit	05:38
holmesII	i installed it by build-essential	05:38
DocScrutinizer	gcc isn't really meant or made to get installed on maemo N900 directly	05:39
internetishard	dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_deactivate string:'PatternIncomingCall' <---this is in a thread that helped some people fix their vibration, why does it say the cmd isn't correct?	05:39
DocScrutinizer	all the 3 users that did that installed all the needed stuff to a chroot iirc	05:39
internetishard	incorrect dbus-send usage?	05:39
internetishard	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51280&page=2	05:40
DocScrutinizer	~ask	05:41
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	05:41
internetishard	why does it say the cmd isn't correct? what is wrong with this question?	05:41
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Start_vibrating	05:42
internetishard	I'm thinking it isn't software though, since it doesn't do that short vibrate right when I turn it on anymore	05:43
DocScrutinizer	your command is req_vibrator_pattern_deactivate	05:43
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/notify.sh	05:45
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internetishard	yeah, it just makes a high pitched sound	05:46
internetishard	same as when I turn it on	05:46
internetishard	fucking omg	05:46
internetishard	I've no money for a phone right now	05:46
* DocScrutinizer should finally fix this, --print-reply is nonsense as is calling play-sound first		05:46
SpeedEvil	internetishard: replacing the vibrator isn't that hard	05:47
internetishard	I need a phone that is more fixable, if I'm going to spend this much, then the hardware should be open enough to order parts for	05:47
internetishard	can I do it myself?	05:47
internetishard	I mean, where can such parts be bought	05:47
DocScrutinizer	internetishard: either your vibrator collected debris and got stuck (very likely), or the motor or driver chip are defect	05:47
internetishard	Got a schematic so I can find the vibrator?	05:48
DocScrutinizer	internetishard: vibrator in N900 is soldered and really hard to replace. Also there's no easily available spare part	05:48
SpeedEvil	oh	05:48
DocScrutinizer	internetishard: it's right under the cam-key	05:49
DocScrutinizer	you can't miss it	05:49
MySpaez	use eyes to find	05:49
SpeedEvil	also - try banging the n900 while vibrator active	05:50
SpeedEvil	gently	05:50
DocScrutinizer	actually rotating suddenly along the long axis	05:50
DocScrutinizer	well, the vibrator more located between power and cam button	05:52
DocScrutinizer	with the excenter mass close to cam button	05:52
internetishard	DocScrutinizer, so I should be able to see it without unscrewing anything?	05:52
internetishard	maybe I can get it going from here	05:53
DocScrutinizer	no, alas not	05:53
internetishard	lol, bang gently?	05:53
DocScrutinizer	yes	05:53
internetishard	how hard... tap? hit on table?	05:53
DocScrutinizer	rotate	05:53
DocScrutinizer	knock firmly with your fingertips	05:55
SpeedEvil	Not on the screen	05:55
DocScrutinizer	indeed	05:55
internetishard	not sure what I did	05:55
internetishard	got it going again	05:56
internetishard	I'm curious about the point of failure	05:56
DocScrutinizer	see :-D	05:56
internetishard	You guys are great	05:56
DocScrutinizer	debris	05:56
internetishard	hmm	05:56
internetishard	I can't see it though	05:56
internetishard	on the back under the camera button is covered with plastic	05:56
internetishard	but maybe it can be taken off	05:56
DocScrutinizer	no	05:56
SpeedEvil	you can't	05:56
DocScrutinizer	look there: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/	05:57
internetishard	cool, thanks	05:57
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg shows vibrator upper middle, the huge silver thing	05:58
DocScrutinizer	the excenter mass is on the left	05:59
DocScrutinizer	you actually need to disassemble the device to reach there	05:59
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DocScrutinizer	as you can see it's underneath the PCB, you need to take out the board from the case	06:00
DocScrutinizer	to reach it	06:01
DocScrutinizer	I'd not recommend you do that, esp if it's working again	06:01
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GeneralAntilles	OK, kids.	06:04
GeneralAntilles	We're all going to get processed tomorrow	06:04
GeneralAntilles	Get our N950s Thursday.	06:04
GeneralAntilles	Deal?	06:04
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DocScrutinizer	meh	06:05
DocScrutinizer	are you the friggin santa, or what?	06:05
DocScrutinizer	btw here it's already "tomorrow" ;-)	06:06
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DocScrutinizer	so ETA for next \o/ event: ~3h	06:07
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DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: I hope you are prepared for your disco firing in the mid of your night ;-)	06:08
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GeneralAntilles	It doesn't fire when the house is in sleep mode.	06:09
DocScrutinizer	:-D	06:09
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holmesII	root is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.	06:10
holmesII	sometimes i got user is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.	06:10
DocScrutinizer	you ARE root	06:10
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holmesII	ok. i see.	06:10
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: did you build on target?	06:11
holmesII	i still have problem on mahammad's code. i don't know how to install the hildon package	06:11
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, build what?	06:11
DocScrutinizer	anything	06:11
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: see holmesII ^^^	06:11
GeneralAntilles	Oh, Qt SDK here.	06:12
GeneralAntilles	So, I'm all bullshit.	06:12
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holmesII	see me for what? :)	06:12
DocScrutinizer	hmm, somebody did it	06:12
holmesII	.................any help?	06:12
holmesII	i'm really newbi	06:12
holmesII	haha	06:13
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: yeah, learn to read IRC backscroll	06:13
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: I seriously suggest you try to build on PC in SDK	06:14
DocScrutinizer	[2011-07-06 04:34:09] <MohammadAG> ~maemosdk	06:14
DocScrutinizer	[2011-07-06 04:34:10] <infobot> well, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	06:14
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DocScrutinizer	holmesII: it's absolutely nontrivial to set up a complete build environment on N900	06:15
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DocScrutinizer	your root filesystem isn't large enough for that	06:16
DocScrutinizer	df -h /	06:16
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holmesII	i got aroud 35G space in tatol	06:17
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG's battery-applet needs quite a few libraries, that won't fit on your root	06:17
DocScrutinizer	yes, then you need to either	06:18
DocScrutinizer	use a chroot, like easydebian or sth	06:18
DocScrutinizer	or	06:18
DocScrutinizer	~optify	06:18
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DocScrutinizer	err	06:18
DocScrutinizer	~optification	06:18
infobot	optification is, like, a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit and partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3	06:18
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holmesII	i just wonder if i can install those libriaries, then i don't have to build a PC environment. I just need to do a small program and may not need to do deep development.	06:20
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: told you this is NOT the recommended way to build binaries for maemo, and that there's really no support for that anywhere, and you need to do a lot of work and know your way around to get it working. Only very few users have done that before	06:20
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: I seriously suggest you try to build on PC in SDK	06:21
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: it's absolutely nontrivial to set up a complete build environment on N900	06:21
holmesII	o. i see. thank you! i have one other question. if I build it on PC. the PC environment should have the libriaries, right? and how do i make a program and run in N900?	06:22
holmesII	you mean on N900 or on PC?	06:22
DocScrutinizer	you build on PC in a chroot called scratchbox, for ARMEL target	06:22
DocScrutinizer	you simply copy the resulting binary to N900 and run it there	06:23
holmesII	i see. thank you!!	06:23
holmesII	i will try	06:23
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DocScrutinizer	the maemo SDK comes with virtually all the libraries you'll probably need	06:24
DocScrutinizer	(that's why it's ~5GB)	06:24
holmesII	hehe, all right. thank you!!! but BTW, is there any good website to let me know how to build the environment for scratchbox?	06:25
holmesII	i am afraid found some one wrong.	06:25
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	06:25
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holmesII	thanks!!	06:26
DocScrutinizer	holmesII: please pay attention, we pointed you at this website 3 times now	06:26
holmesII	yes. i did. i just want to confirm it.	06:27
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holmesII	i saw it few times. thank you very much!	06:27
pauly	hi anyone want to trade their n8 for n900?	06:27
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pauly	i want something different	06:28
DocScrutinizer	you'll probably have questions when you got SB (scratchbox) installed and running. Come here and ask, every devel did	06:28
DocScrutinizer	:-)	06:28
holmesII	i am just thinking install it in my ubuntu system or in my windows system.	06:28
DocScrutinizer	ubuntu	06:28
holmesII	which one do you recommend?	06:28
DocScrutinizer	definitely	06:28
holmesII	i have ubuntu 10.04	06:28
holmesII	is that all right?	06:28
DocScrutinizer	should work	06:28
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DocScrutinizer	pauly: I bet you won't have to wait for more than 24h to complete that deal	06:29
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pauly	what u mean?	06:30
holmesII	all right. thank you! i have four systems. i think i got to reboot my pc and going to ubuntu. but i think i have go to bed now. I will talk to you tomorrow. Anyway, you are a very very nice person i meet in freenode.	06:30
holmesII	thank you so much!	06:30
DocScrutinizer	I mean there are a few users with a N8 they hate, who want a N900 urgently	06:30
holmesII	you have a good night.	06:30
pauly	u know them lol i dont have an TMO account	06:31
DocScrutinizer	they are all here during the next 24h	06:31
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DocScrutinizer	that'S why I say won't take long	06:31
DocScrutinizer	just repost your offer every 60 min	06:32
antman8969	anyone here got a few spare minutes and not in the US?	06:37
antman8969	need a quick app tester...	06:37
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antman8969	with a linkedin account	06:37
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DocScrutinizer	holmesII: ooh, don't use the graphic installer there, it usually gives you trouble. It seems the script based installation is easier	06:39
holmesII	ok. got it.:) im leaving now.	06:39
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holmesII	see you tommorrow	06:40
pauly	DocScrutinizer: have u used n8	06:41
pauly	?	06:41
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so one of them is getting their N950 shipped	06:42
pauly	DocScrutinizer: i just want something different, i dont have time to customize maemo like everyone else mine is stock lol	06:43
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DocScrutinizer	pauly: sorry, no	06:44
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25061&postcount=440	06:44
hiemanshu	did you see trhat?	06:44
DocScrutinizer	yes	06:45
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so the people from the first batch should have it for them in a day or two	06:46
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DocScrutinizer	o.O	06:46
antman8969	looking at the accepted page, only a few have received that email	06:47
antman8969	http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community%20device%20program/Nokia	06:48
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: that guy was from batch four 0_0	06:48
DocScrutinizer	exactly	06:48
DocScrutinizer	last in first out	06:48
hiemanshu	so hmm, well the ones with the launchpad activated should have it soon	06:49
DocScrutinizer	the way a stack of paper works	06:49
hiemanshu	yup	06:49
DocScrutinizer	well, I'm in batch 3 ;-P	06:50
hiemanshu	:(	06:50
DocScrutinizer	but I'm still sure the dude processing the requests dropped the pile of sheets and collected them in random order	06:51
hiemanshu	but why the fuck are they using sheets, haven't they heard of google docs or email or evernote or etherpad	06:52
DocScrutinizer	anyway I'm expecting quite a number of processed devices for today	06:52
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: given the likelihood of M$ products being used there, I'd rather hope for sheets	06:53
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hah true :P	06:53
DocScrutinizer	Quim thinks even end of next week not all requests are processed	06:56
hiemanshu	he does	06:56
hiemanshu	?	06:56
DocScrutinizer	which would make an average per day of <25	06:56
pauly	anyone want to trade me their n8 for my n900?	06:57
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: who were the guys who got a N8 for their warranty N900?	06:58
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: Jaffa was one	06:58
DocScrutinizer	yep, thought so	06:58
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: but he traded his for a E7 or something	06:58
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, dunno if he did, or just planned to do	06:59
DocScrutinizer	pauly: E7?	06:59
pauly	DocScrutinizer: i like 12mp on n8 but keyboard on e7 ughhh idk	07:00
DocScrutinizer	whatever, you'll find somebody interested in your swap deal, easily	07:00
pauly	i take pics so i still want n8	07:00
* DocScrutinizer afk		07:01
pauly	DocScrutinizer: you ever use symbian 3?	07:01
DocScrutinizer	o/	07:01
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jonwil	anyone know anything about product IDs? I know the N900 is RX-51	07:12
jonwil	but I got a bunch of others I cant ID	07:12
pauly	anyone want to trade me their n8 for my n900?	07:13
jonwil	anyone know what a SU-18, RX-44, RX-48, RM-680, RM-690, RM-696 or RM-716 is?	07:13
GAN900	SU-18 is 77p	07:13
GAN900	RX-44 is N810	07:13
GAN900	RM-680 is N950	07:14
jonwil	RX-34 is probably N800	07:14
jonwil	aha, RX-48 is N810 wimax	07:14
GAN900	690 or 696 is N9	07:14
GAN900	RX-71 was an unreleased devboard	07:15
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames	07:21
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DocScrutinizer	could use some update, I guess	07:22
pauly	twitter sucks on maemo tweedsuit is decent though	07:22
pauly	i hate using the twitter.com site	07:23
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: google is your friend as well, quite interesting what you get on a search for all those codenames	07:23
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: pauly wants a N8 raher than his N900	07:50
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antman8969	anyone know if the maemo builder is down?	07:58
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user__	has anyone found a way to use google+ mobile version on the n900. m.google.com/plus defaults to the full site with all the cpu clogger javascript.	08:11
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RST38h	no, nobody knows the iPhone-specific URL so far	08:14
user__	bummer	08:14
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Macer	anybody know of any arm based full fledged pc diy type kit?	08:26
Macer	maybe a beagleboard based kit?	08:26
Macer	something that can run kubuntu? :-)	08:27
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dm8tbr	you answered your own question	08:27
Macer	http://trimslice.com/web/models	08:28
Macer	was thinking of something like that	08:28
Macer	that tegra looks like quite a beast but i am curious as to how well the video works	08:29
dm8tbr	tegra is reported to suck ballz	08:29
Macer	really?? that sucks	08:30
dm8tbr	if you want something open with an interested community http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/home/	08:30
dm8tbr	last time I looked at tegra2 I heard it has e.g. problems with decoding media	08:30
RST38h	hehehe	08:30
RST38h	Macer and SmartBook...	08:31
ruskie	yeah the only prob with always innovating... still no actual product for the touchbook v2 and I would guess smartbook as well	08:33
Macer	dm8tbr: omg! dont ever mention alwaysinnovating again	08:33
* dm8tbr shrugs		08:33
ruskie	hehe	08:33
Macer	i preordered their touchbook a while back	08:33
ruskie	and?	08:33
Macer	what a total piece of s*it	08:33
ruskie	v1 I take it?	08:33
ruskie	what was wrong with it?	08:33
Macer	it tipped over.. the screen was non responsive	08:34
Macer	the video was slow.. the keyboard connectivity would mess up	08:34
Macer	etc etc	08:34
Macer	it was garbage.. and i was so excited about it	08:34
ruskie	I'm gonna get touchbook v2 if it ever materializes	08:34
Macer	dont preorder!	08:35
ruskie	else one of the other tablet/netbook type devices	08:35
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ruskie	Macer, I haven't and won't	08:35
ruskie	until they have a physical product	08:35
Macer	wait til everybody tells you it sucks as bad as v1	08:35
Macer	i do want to try out a tegra based system tho just to see	08:35
ruskie	wess v2 supposedly has capacitive... so touchscreen shouldn't be non-responsive... just crappy	08:35
Macer	i am sure it is the lowest bidded broken capacitive they could get a hold of	08:36
Macer	with dead pixels all over it from chinese slave laborers blood seeping into it suring production	08:36
ruskie	well just the fact that it is capacitive means it's crappy	08:36
ruskie	no matter what value	08:36
Macer	during	08:36
ruskie	I did hear about the tipping	08:36
Macer	the tipping was the worst part	08:37
Macer	:-)	08:37
RST38h	ruskie: Avoid these guys like if you were avoiding the Pandora guys	08:37
ruskie	the stuff I like about it is... plugin in usb sticks to expand it	08:37
Macer	if it went anywhere past 90 degrees it would tip	08:37
Macer	it was just a let down. a total pos	08:37
ruskie	and ability to run multiple OSes easily	08:38
Macer	a great idea poorly made	08:38
Macer	pfft	08:38
Macer	heh	08:38
Macer	and the non responsive screen was the icing on the cake	08:39
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Macer	you had to dig your finger half way into it in order for it to do anything	08:40
ruskie	I want to get a tablet/netbook combo system... but I also don't want to be stuck with only the one system that is on it	08:41
Macer	ruskie: fair enough	08:42
pauly	anyone want to trade me their n8 for my n900?	08:42
Macer	ruskie: i am sure most are locked	08:43
ruskie	yeah	08:43
Macer	wish there was an n900 dock	08:43
Macer	:-)	08:43
Macer	maybe n9 dock??	08:43
Macer	heh (yeah right.. nokia? something good?)	08:44
pauly	noone has n8 :(	08:44
ruskie	Macer, well always innovating has a bluetooth dock thingy... https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/keyboard.htm	08:46
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hiemanshu	pauly: wait for Jaffa, he'll be around in a couple of hours or so	08:49
Macer	lol!	08:49
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Macer	i am sure it is fail ruskie	08:49
Macer	i am telling you what i know. you go ahead and get one and tell me i was wrong later	08:50
pauly	hiemanshu:i thought he has e7?	08:50
Macer	;-) to each their own. maybe you will like it	08:50
hiemanshu	pauly: he was hoping to get it changed or something, so well you are besst off asking him	08:50
pauly	lol okay im just too excited for symbian anna lol i just want something easier everyday use, and n8 seems like it	08:52
Macer	symbian anna?	08:58
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Macer	i wonder what the trimslice runs for an os	08:59
Macer	chrome os?	09:00
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pauly	macer: new symbian 3 version is anna	09:00
Macer	oh	09:01
Macer	http://trimslice.com/web/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/with-pen.png	09:01
Macer	wp-cotent? fail	09:01
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Sicelo	your usb fixed pauly?	09:13
pauly	bought a different n900	09:13
pauly	lol	09:14
pauly	sicelo: u got an n8	09:14
flailingmonkey	how much did you spend for a new n900	09:14
flailingmonkey	or different n900	09:14
pauly	180 used	09:14
flailingmonkey	USD?	09:14
flailingmonkey	or eur	09:14
pauly	i wanna trade it for n8	09:14
pauly	usd	09:14
flailingmonkey	not bad at all	09:15
pauly	do yous have an n8 that u wanna trade?	09:15
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Sicelo	no pauly. my n900 is 3 days old	09:16
pauly	oh no i want n8 cause it seems easy to use im tired of having the coolest open source device and not using it the way i should cause i dont have the time	09:17
robbiethe1st	Oh well...	09:18
Sicelo	so the usb?	09:18
pauly	sicelo that n900 i also broke screen on lol	09:19
robbiethe1st	USB issues seem to vary with hardware revision; some older ones were 'weak', mine(gotten more recently) hasn't had any trouble, despite being dropped onto the cord several times	09:20
pauly	so now i have two n900 that i wanna sell or trade	09:20
robbiethe1st	You have one with broken screen and usb, pauly?	09:21
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Sicelo	so u bought another one & now u don't like it 0_0	09:21
pauly	ya lol	09:21
pauly	i know	09:21
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flailingmonkey	pauly: i have been unable to break mine, strong as a rock	09:22
pauly	i dont know if i want n8 n9 or sgs 2 or japenese docomo phone	09:22
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Sicelo	robbiethe1st: your latest BackupMenu is in the repos?	09:22
robbiethe1st	In -devel, yes.	09:22
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robbiethe1st	As of yet there's no way for me to promote any version to -testing, because one of my dependancies is only in -devel.	09:23
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* Sicelo will get it later today		09:24
flailingmonkey	robbiethe1st: i thought that dependancies were automatically brought in when you promote to -testing	09:24
robbiethe1st	It will work if your dependancy has a valid version in -testing.	09:25
robbiethe1st	Otherwise, it just gives an error.	09:25
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pauly	that makes sense cause the dependancy might not be perfected yet and there goes the whole point?	09:26
pauly	bought my wife a droid x for $20 usd bad esn including 16gb sd card	09:27
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pauly	l remember symbian having bitorrent client ohh im so excited and the nokia beta labs apps :)	09:29
pauly	i would hope s60 fifth edition apps work on symbian 3????	09:31
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ruskie	hmmm I wonder if it's worth waiting for some meego based arm tablet...	10:06
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macmaN	ruskie: help on the meego -> nookcolor hackathon	10:08
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ruskie	macmaN, I'd like something that comes out WITH it already on	10:09
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vdv	where can i look for release notes of the latest firmware for n900?	10:12
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robbiethe1st	Honestly, I don't know. I don't think I've ever seen any release notes on it	10:14
pauly	lol thers a #symbian channel	10:15
vdv	i want to reflash my n900, but not sure if it's worth it	10:15
robbiethe1st	Back up your stuff, and yea, do so	10:15
robbiethe1st	it fixes some glitches	10:15
vdv	and i'm not sure whether "Version: 10.2010-19-1" installed now is not the latest one	10:16
pavi	I am getting a new n900 as I wanted to get the last piece before its out	10:16
pavi	So tell me can I run meego on it ?	10:17
vdv	last flashed image was: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	10:17
pavi	or even better maemo with Qt on it .. ( harmattan release ? )	10:17
robbiethe1st	Yea, there's newer out there	10:18
vdv	ok, thanks	10:18
robbiethe1st	It's at least version 20.2010.36, IIRC	10:18
robbiethe1st	I'd say what version my device says, but it's been hacked so many times it just reports "<unknown>" :P	10:19
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pauly	any1 want to trade my n900 for ur n8	10:21
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robbiethe1st	pauly: You'd have to ask elsewhere. Noone with an N8 would be in here...	10:22
DocScrutinizer	>>A Nokia N950 is waiting for you<<	10:22
robbiethe1st	(or atleast admit it	10:22
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robbiethe1st	DocScrutinizer: Just provide your bank account number and SSN to Mr Genuine Prince of Nigeria to recieve it!	10:23
pauly	where would they be	10:23
robbiethe1st	(or fill out a survey... *participation required)	10:24
RST38h	Doc: What else is that N950 saying to you?	10:24
DocScrutinizer	pff	10:24
robbiethe1st	pauly: Uh... #symbian ?	10:24
pauly	lmao n950 i seen transformers those 2 seconds was like wow	10:24
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DocScrutinizer	it's a friggin HTML mail @.@	10:24
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: what will you be doing with yours	10:25
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RST38h	NSFW	10:26
pauly	robbiethe1st: someone in here said someone would be interested so i will stay here	10:27
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: actually, went and found your entry on the accepted participants page	10:28
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robbiethe1st	flailingmonkey: Link?	10:28
flailingmonkey	http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia then search for Joerg	10:28
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DocScrutinizer	NameNokia N950Special device typeLoan device	10:28
DocScrutinizer	Availability date30.6.2011Estimated Delivery TimeApproximately one week	10:28
DocScrutinizer	Price0,00Additional informationNo picture available	10:28
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: wow	10:30
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: you got yours?	10:30
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DocScrutinizer	yoh	10:31
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: dammit	10:31
* hiemanshu shoots DocScrutinizer		10:32
* hiemanshu crosses fingers and checks		10:32
* DocScrutinizer knew it - N950 is dangerous to your health		10:32
Appiah	omg	10:32
Appiah	then give them to me	10:32
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hah	10:32
Appiah	I'll take care of them	10:32
* hiemanshu isnt at home and is too lazy to check email		10:33
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: nothing :'(	10:33
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: maybe there will be soemthing by the end of the day	10:33
DocScrutinizer	https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/OrderAgreement?product=Nokia+N950	10:34
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: 'Product you requested does not exist'	10:34
robbiethe1st	So, erm, the only people who show up on http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia are the ones accepted?	10:34
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: summary of your project goals: fill in the gaps where developers got lazy	10:34
hiemanshu	robbiethe1st: yrd	10:35
hiemanshu	yes*	10:35
Termana	DocScrutinizer, your forgetting (mostly) no one else can read that	10:35
flailingmonkey	yeah, they're working on getting the devices out now, past the selection phase	10:35
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robbiethe1st	Ok, so I don't have to be sad quite yet, I guess...	10:35
DocScrutinizer	nope, I'm aware of that	10:35
hiemanshu	Termana: did you get accepted into launchpad yet?	10:35
Termana	hiemanshu, nope.	10:36
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: if you got it, I must not be too far	10:36
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hiemanshu	I'll be out for most of the day, hope to have an email by the time I am home	10:36
DocScrutinizer	toldya I'm batch 3	10:36
Termana	I was in the first round - so they must be going backwards!	10:36
Termana	:p	10:36
robbiethe1st	Oh, wait. Tea, I'm declined. Oh well.	10:36
hiemanshu	Termana: I was in first round too	10:36
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hah, fucking LIFO	10:37
Termana	The wait is killing me	10:37
Termana	I'll be dead before they get to me	10:37
Termana	:p	10:37
hiemanshu	Termana: http://i.imgur.com/GNeQr.jpg	10:38
DocScrutinizer	>>No Copying or Distribution of the Product. You may not copy the Product, or export, sublicense, lease, lend, sell, assign or otherwise transfer the Product to any third party. << :-D	10:38
Termana	hiemanshu, lol	10:38
hiemanshu	Termana: you know what would be worse, waiting for it to arrive :/	10:38
hiemanshu	now you are hitting F5, next you'll be sitting at the door for over a week :P	10:38
Termana	DocScrutinizer, have you built a cloning machine?	10:39
alterego	I got offered an N950 last night	10:39
hiemanshu	Termana: yes, its called china	10:39
hiemanshu	alterego: huh?	10:39
flailingmonkey	hiemanshu: the sad thing is that the kittens actually help	10:39
hiemanshu	flailingmonkey: yes they do :D	10:39
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Termana	hiemanshu, yeah, especially because I don't know how it's going to go down. Apparently they only deliver to your door, but all packages like that have always gone to my post office because I'm rural, so IDK	10:39
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alterego	hiemanshu: a Nokia guy was at an event I was at.	10:40
hiemanshu	Termana: whats the nearest DHL office?	10:40
hiemanshu	alterego: ah	10:40
hiemanshu	alterego: didja take it?	10:40
flailingmonkey	alterego: i assume you declined on principle	10:40
alterego	No, said I'm expecting one soon.	10:40
DocScrutinizer	WTF >>No Reverse Engineering. You may not (or allow others to) disable, disassemble, decompile or reverse engineer the Product or determine the source code of any code that is not delivered to You by Nokia in source code format. You may not (or allow others to) enable any logic or protocols in the Product that are disabled when delivered to You by Nokia. <<	10:40
flailingmonkey	of not having two :p	10:40
alterego	So he didn't give it out to anyone in the end.	10:40
hiemanshu	alterego: sad	10:40
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: that's pretty damn funny, because that's basically why you were chosen to get one	10:40
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DocScrutinizer	indeed	10:41
flailingmonkey	alterego: where was the event	10:41
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: they say a lot, you dont follow everything :P	10:41
lcuk	alterego, did you goto the app-up?	10:41
alterego	London	10:41
alterego	lcuk: yeah	10:41
lcuk	cool	10:41
lcuk	was it good?	10:41
flailingmonkey	what sort of event? wish they did that sort of thing in the US :p but I'm not holding my breath	10:41
robbiethe1st	Oh well, not that I had much chance at a N950 anyway, but I got the standard "proposal declined" message. I guess I'm just not a good enough dev. Or something. :P I apparently can try to claim different... but I've only got one shot. Any ideas on anything I can do to get one more shot in while I've still got a chance?	10:41
Termana	hiemanshu, 170kms away I think	10:41
alterego	It was, there was some UK specific info that wasn't in the SF app up.	10:42
alterego	And it was much more bried	10:42
alterego	brief ...	10:42
alterego	Free beer and pizza	10:42
alterego	followed by a free bar.	10:42
hiemanshu	Termana: ah, so once you have your tracking number start poking DHL :P	10:43
lcuk	alterego, so what was the uk info?	10:43
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alterego	Just things like PC World / Dixons group shipping netbooks and laptops with appup client installed.	10:43
MohammadAG	Yay, I'm in Launchpad	10:43
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: :D	10:44
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: and DocScrutinizer got his N950	10:44
MohammadAG	Seriously?	10:44
hiemanshu	yup	10:44
alterego	Lame	10:44
MohammadAG	wtf	10:44
hiemanshu	alterego: nothing for you yet?	10:44
MohammadAG	same day shipping or what?	10:44
alterego	Nope	10:44
alterego	MohammadAG: next day	10:44
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: <DocScrutinizer> >>A Nokia N950 is waiting for you<<	10:44
MohammadAG	alterego, nothing in my email fyi	10:44
MohammadAG	alterego, so when did he order it?	10:44
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: about 10 mins back	10:45
alterego	I know, I've already checked launchpad	10:45
hiemanshu	I mean	10:45
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, I got that, with a link to Rick Astley	10:45
hiemanshu	lol	10:45
alterego	MohammadAG: I think he's just got the email.	10:45
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: yeah I meant that ^	10:45
Termana	MohammadAG, :p lol	10:45
MohammadAG	oh you're still awake?	10:45
DocScrutinizer	soory for long post, but that's the WTF of the day:	10:45
DocScrutinizer	No Public Statements. Nokia is delivering the Product to You in an effort to assist You in developing Your software for the Product. On the other hand, You acknowledge that the Product is in prototype stage and still in development by Nokia and thus, not in commercial quality. In view of the foregoing, You agree not to i) make public statements about the possible errors, deficiencies, faults of the Product or Your other findings about the	10:45
DocScrutinizer	incomplete nature of the Product; and/or ii) disclose the Feedback to third parties, without Nokia’s prior written permission. You agree not to break or attempt to break any sealed security boxes or other security mechanisms protecting the Product. You will ensure that Your employees, if any, have been advised of these obligations. The termination or expiry of this Agreement does not relieve You of the obligations imposed above. This	10:46
Termana	MohammadAG, yes, guess who was my next trolling victim? j/k :p	10:46
DocScrutinizer	Section 9 overrules any previous NDA’s between You and Nokia regarding the Product, if any.	10:46
Termana	MohammadAG, it's still the same day here	10:46
Termana	5:16pm	10:46
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I think we have to stfu about the NDA	10:46
MohammadAG	check that before the next paste	10:46
MohammadAG	anyway, what's the Nokia+N950 url again?	10:47
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/OrderAgreement?product=Nokia+N950	10:47
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: of course the NDA is NOT under NDA	10:48
khertan	Morning	10:48
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hiemanshu	khertan: morning	10:48
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, sure?	10:48
DocScrutinizer	YES	10:48
hiemanshu	khertan: get an email yet?	10:48
alterego	You can't be under an NDA until you accept the NDA	10:48
* MohammadAG chokes		10:48
MohammadAG	Product you requested does not exist	10:48
khertan	hiemanshu, yep, but not from nokia :)	10:48
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: yes, stand in the line behind me	10:49
alterego	He's perfectly within his right to paste info, until he accepts it :)	10:49
MohammadAG	didn't he already?	10:49
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so its a conspiracy? :P	10:49
khertan	by accepting launchpad account you sign an nda ;)	10:49
khertan	so the nda is under nda :)	10:49
hiemanshu	yeah, but that is different :P	10:49
alterego	Ah, fair point	10:50
hiemanshu	meh who cares, like they can hunt me down in India :P	10:50
DocScrutinizer	It is clearly saying we shall NOT blog, post, mail, etc etc about the products properties, as nobody can know if we might show shortcomings by doing that	10:50
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: you can about your app, but not your device	10:50
flailingmonkey	lulz, conflict with expectation that all participants in meego open source dev program blog/post about their work	10:51
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flailingmonkey	hiemanshu: DocScrutinizer's work is the device	10:51
DocScrutinizer	About my app means about the device, as clearly there's no such app on the device yet. So...	10:51
MohammadAG	that's not what he stated in the application	10:51
hiemanshu	flailingmonkey: right, so he can talk about what he is doing, not how nokia fucked up	10:51
flailingmonkey	hiemanshu: specifically making up for the platform deficiences :p	10:51
hiemanshu	well thats what quim said	10:51
flailingmonkey	actually this none of this really applies at all	10:52
DocScrutinizer	Hey I build a better email client... OOOOPS	10:52
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flailingmonkey	because N950 is not a product	10:52
ruskie	You agree not to break or attempt to break any sealed security boxes or other security mechanisms protecting the Product. <-- hahahahaha what's the point of getting the device if you can't actually do all of that...	10:52
flailingmonkey	need to add it to bugzilla: NOTAPRODUCT NOTAPRODUCT NOTAPRODUCT	10:52
MohammadAG	flailingmonkey, filing bugs != defeciencies	10:52
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flailingmonkey	MohammadAG: sure, but some bugs might be filed, and could be closed by such a status :p	10:53
flailingmonkey	they probably wanted something like that for N900: NOTACONSUMERPRODUCT	10:53
khertan	snifff qemu in qtcreator didn't want to run	10:53
hiemanshu	khertan: are you choosing the right target?	10:54
khertan	harmattan ... seems	10:54
khertan	there is only one	10:54
DocScrutinizer	I know what they meant, but what the NDA says is pretty much you mustn't talk about your own app even, as you inevitably would disclose about "missing properties" of "the product" by talking about the awesomeness your app will bring to N9(50)	10:54
khertan	i ve try to create an harmattan project	10:54
hiemanshu	khertan: there should be two, one harmattan, and one meego 1.2 harmattan something	10:54
khertan	Strange: Qemu button was enabled, but target does not match. <-- indeed ... seems a problem	10:55
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, by app they meant normal app	10:55
khertan	hiemanshu, i ve 4 target	10:55
DocScrutinizer	me too, me too	10:55
MohammadAG	not one that relies on tinkering with hardware	10:55
hiemanshu	khertan: go to projects, select harmattan	10:55
khertan	seems that meego harmattan run	10:55
hiemanshu	khertan: there should be a drop down with two options	10:55
khertan	not harmattan only	10:55
khertan	thx	10:56
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: where did I mention hardware in my concern?	10:56
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DocScrutinizer	[2011-07-06 09:52:03] <DocScrutinizer> Hey I build a better email client... OOOOPS	10:56
MohammadAG	umm, what's wrong in that?	10:56
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Termana	MohammadAG, it says that there is a definiciancy in the inbuilt one	10:57
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: indirectly you mean 'Nokias clients sukz arse'	10:57
Termana	deficiency*	10:57
MohammadAG	no, it says you built a better one	10:57
ruskie	I'd actually love to see a better client...	10:57
ruskie	on any platform	10:57
MohammadAG	Don't stretch the NDA	10:57
DocScrutinizer	telling you build an email client at all implies it's a better one than the stock one (if any). So automatically you disclose details about a "shortcoming" of "the Product"	10:57
hiemanshu	I just want someone to port kmail to it	10:57
MohammadAG	that's not how legal shit works	10:58
ruskie	hiemanshu, it's there	10:58
ruskie	hiemanshu, atleast for the n900	10:58
hiemanshu	robbiethe1st: for harmattan?	10:58
hiemanshu	err	10:58
hiemanshu	ruskie: ^	10:58
robbiethe1st	:P	10:58
ruskie	hehe	10:58
ruskie	though considering how much crap it needs to just run... not even do anything...	10:58
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hiemanshu	ruskie: yeah kdelibs and stuff	10:59
ruskie	not really bothered about that	10:59
ruskie	but all the daemons it needs to run	10:59
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: That's EXACTLY how legal shit works	10:59
MohammadAG	as you wish	10:59
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, you already agreed right?	10:59
DocScrutinizer	just telling	10:59
DocScrutinizer	of course NOT	11:00
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so you are not going to agreee to it?	11:00
DocScrutinizer	I'm actually reading such an NDA	11:00
DocScrutinizer	hierI probably will, it's a nice excuse not to publish any word about what I'm doing ;-P	11:01
ruskie	lol	11:01
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:01
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hah ok	11:01
MohammadAG	morning Jaffa	11:01
hiemanshu	Jaffa: soon you will no longer be alone :P	11:01
DocScrutinizer	honestly, this needs clarification with Quim	11:01
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: read the N950 thread, he states it clrearly	11:01
hiemanshu	clearly*	11:01
DocScrutinizer	he states something that's clearly in conflict with the NDA	11:02
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: the NDA is most likely for the other devs (other than the meego DDP)	11:02
hiemanshu	well atleast thats what I can understand	11:02
DocScrutinizer	hierlooks like, yes	11:02
Termana	DocScrutinizer, I wonder what the legal standpoint is if you make two agreements with conflicting provisions	11:02
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: ^^^	11:03
Jaffa	Termana: Later one wins; because meego.com isn't providing anything to you.	11:03
hiemanshu	Termana: you follow the one with the more money and power to sue your arse	11:03
Jaffa	As Texrat points out, "share your experience" on meego.com isn't entirely conflicting with "these aren't review units, don't say anything negative2	11:03
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: trying to find the post give me a few	11:03
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: it's clearly tailored towards commercial parties	11:03
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yup	11:04
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: ^^^ didn't mean (see above) for an answer, just for my ETAB	11:04
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yeah, I saw that	11:05
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: the NDA is too strict and ill worded	11:05
alterego	It's a BS NDA anyway	11:06
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: 'The point is to share your development experience, or anything related. These are not review devices for bloggers.'	11:06
Termana	I don't care what the NDA says anyway, if it says I am signing my soul to them, I will, if they hurry it along and get it in front of me! :P	11:06
hiemanshu	Termana: hah	11:07
DocScrutinizer	so if I find a bug in develpment environment aka SDK that comes with the device, this also is covered by the NDA	11:07
DocScrutinizer	obviously not as it's public	11:07
MohammadAG	I already filed a bug against the SDK, no black choppers above my house	11:07
DocScrutinizer	but according to the strict meaning of NDA words it was	11:07
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: no replies too either	11:08
Termana	hiemanshu, no word is good word!	11:08
Termana	ish	11:08
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, I wasn't under any NDA	11:08
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flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer's not saying they'll enforce it, just that its overreaching. basically so that if they don't like you, they're pretty sure to find some rule you agreed to and didn't follow	11:08
MohammadAG	anyway the NDA talks about the N950, not the SDK	11:08
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: true, but I was expecting the devs to atleast reply to the bug	11:09
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, seriously? you expected that?	11:09
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MohammadAG	how long have you been with us? :P	11:09
flailingmonkey	hiemanshu the optimisttt	11:09
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: I'm quite sensitive to such "tricks"	11:09
alterego	Heh	11:09
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: yes, well, nothing wrong in hoping :P	11:09
hiemanshu	'I just ordered one for me. Now waiting... this can be a very long week :P' so one more person got it	11:10
* hiemanshu hopes it have it today or tomorrow		11:10
hiemanshu	s/it/to/	11:10
infobot	hiemanshu meant: 'I just ordered one for me. Now watoing... this can be a very long week :P' so one more person got it	11:10
DocScrutinizer	actually the NDA is missing an excemption of publicly known stuff	11:10
MohammadAG	there's still time for today	11:10
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: its barely noon there	11:11
DocScrutinizer	that's the crux with this NDA	11:11
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: NDAs for suits to sue other suits	11:11
hiemanshu	+are	11:11
Termana	hiemanshu, you've ordered one? WHAT? :p	11:11
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hiemanshu	Termana: nope, someone else did	11:11
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hiemanshu	Termana: thats from the forum	11:12
Termana	oh ok, that's why you had the quotes	11:12
Termana	quotation marks*	11:12
hiemanshu	yup	11:12
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: I take pride in outsmarting suits on their playground	11:12
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: true, its fun :D	11:12
alterego	What's the point?	11:12
flailingmonkey	i guess I'll get my ass over to the Intel AppUp event in NYC, maybe get to check this thing out in person :p	11:13
DocScrutinizer	the point is the NDA for N950 has no excemption for publicly known stuff	11:13
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: it also has no domain over it.	11:13
DocScrutinizer	sue it has	11:13
alterego	nope	11:13
hiemanshu	nothing yet	11:13
alterego	It infers no restrictions over open source packages on some server.	11:14
alterego	That it doesn't even mention.	11:14
DocScrutinizer	I must not -according to the NDA - blog about their sucking email client AS SEEN IN THAT PROMO	11:14
alterego	m'hmm	11:14
DocScrutinizer	everybody else may, not me though	11:15
alterego	Who cares? You know they're not going to do anything.	11:15
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: ssh + alpine FTW :D	11:15
RST38h	What NDA? What experience? I have not heard anything back from Quim yet	11:15
DocScrutinizer	I know they're not going to do anything, but I'm goinf to sign a paper	11:16
alterego	RST38h: you're not likely to.	11:16
alterego	RST38h: quim isn't replying, launchpad is.	11:16
DocScrutinizer	I READ papers before I sign them	11:16
RST38h	Ok, have not heard anything from the Launchpad either	11:16
DocScrutinizer	and this paper is CRAP	11:16
alterego	RST38h: joion the club :)	11:16
MohammadAG	I sign them then read it	11:17
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: you remind me of the south park episode, where kids agree to be used in human experiments when accepting iTunes EULA	11:17
MohammadAG	that way I know I can't reject it	11:17
DocScrutinizer	hehe	11:17
alterego	RST38h: but some people have noticed launchpad appearing on their nokia developer profile	11:17
alterego	So you could religiously check there until you see launchpad :P	11:17
RST38h	Mohammad: Really bad practice	11:17
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MohammadAG	time to check my junk folder	11:18
RST38h	alterego: I have had launchpad account for months	11:18
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: check the URL, the device shows up there anyway	11:18
hiemanshu	flailingmonkey: human centipad, copied from human centipede :P	11:18
RST38h	alterego: that part is not a problem	11:18
flailingmonkey	yup	11:18
alterego	Ah, m'kay	11:18
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: all I see is a how to on 'Order Devices' :P	11:19
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alterego	I think this stuff is being done alphabetically anyway ..	11:19
hiemanshu	alterego: nope, randomness	11:19
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alterego	I don't like randomness ..	11:20
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, device doesn't exist	11:20
alterego	There must be a method	11:20
alterego	I would have thought alphabetically or by the order the emails came in	11:21
hiemanshu	alterego: its called 'pick up a lucky bastard'	11:21
alterego	But if MohammadAG has got it now ...	11:21
alterego	And he was one of the last	11:21
MohammadAG	I got launchpad, not the N950	11:21
hiemanshu	alterego: he was batch two	11:21
MohammadAG	second batch bitch :P	11:21
hiemanshu	alterego: and DocScrutinizer is batch 3, got his email	11:21
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alterego	Yeah, exactly.	11:21
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hiemanshu	alterego: so the method is 'pick up a lucky bastard' :P	11:22
alterego	DocScrutinizer was already launchpad	11:22
MohammadAG	if it's alphabatical	11:22
MohammadAG	you have a long way to go :P	11:22
alterego	Not really, if they're already on 'm' :P	11:22
hiemanshu	alterego: timpoh got it too	11:23
hiemanshu	explain that? :P	11:23
DocScrutinizer	a quick google search yielded http://paste.debian.net/122060/	11:23
hiemanshu	so I am going to get a new KB today, I am sure I'll break my F5 key by the end of the week	11:23
ruskie	rofl	11:23
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, one question	11:24
alterego	Heh	11:24
MohammadAG	which email do they send it to?	11:24
MohammadAG	I'm checking all 3 addresses	11:24
hiemanshu	and my current KB is expensive, should get a cheap $5 one for the F5	11:24
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: launchpad registered one	11:24
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: the one you gave to launchpad	11:25
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alterego	I actually changed my nokia developer email address last week	11:25
hiemanshu	oh wait, I could just use ctrl + r	11:26
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: does the device show up on the DDP page too?	11:27
DocScrutinizer	YES!!!	11:27
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, you can also use Qt to make an auto refreshing browser	11:27
DocScrutinizer	immediately	11:27
DocScrutinizer	https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950	11:28
alterego	You could write an N950 app to check if you're getting an N950 :)	11:28
alterego	And run it in the emulator ..	11:28
DocScrutinizer	DAMN! I can not "save as..." the friffin NDA	11:28
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, there's a pdf version if you accept it	11:29
DocScrutinizer	haha	11:29
hiemanshu	hmm, I am off for a few hours, hope to have an email by the time I am home	11:29
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Termana	ttyl hiemanshu	11:31
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khertan	alterego, i was batch 1 and still waiting n950	11:34
sandst1	Perhaps the Launchpad processing order is a stack :P	11:34
khertan	so just wait	11:34
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khertan	launchpad.stack.rand()	11:35
javispedro	see? reverse arrival order!	11:35
Termana	khertan, still waiting for Launchpad approval or just the N950 email?	11:35
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RST38h	Apple has reportedly begun the filtering of outbound messages sent via its MobileMe service.	11:36
RST38h	No, really: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/06/mobileme_censorware_row/	11:36
alterego	Heh	11:37
khertan	Termana, n950 in launchpad :) i ve got the launchpad approval (but no email)	11:37
MohammadAG	there's no launchpad approval email	11:37
RST38h	heya javispedro	11:37
Termana	I'm still waiting to be accepted to launchpad :p	11:38
javispedro	hello	11:38
sandst1	hmmm. The wiki page has a history, so we could figure out the processing order from that x)	11:38
flailingmonkey	RST38h: MobileMe was killed off, replaced by Cloud	11:38
deimos	here a review of N950 http://www.fonearena.com/blog/40638/exclusive-the-epic-nokia-n950-hands-on.html	11:38
javispedro	I know one thing's for sure: my application is last ;)	11:38
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RST38h	we cannot have all our applications last at the same time	11:39
javispedro	oh, it would deadlock until next year.	11:39
khertan	Termana, logout / login when verifying ... as using the same session seems give cache data	11:39
flailingmonkey	i think N950 might be secret genius move	11:40
MohammadAG	no need to logout/login khertan	11:40
khertan	MohammadAG, was the case for me	11:40
flailingmonkey	they pretend its a devkit, while getting N9 ready	11:40
MohammadAG	flailingmonkey, you deserve your thinking right revoked	11:40
* MohammadAG calls aegis		11:40
khertan	MohammadAG, or i got it quickly between login / logout :)	11:41
khertan	aegis ?	11:41
flailingmonkey	but use feedback to release N1K with cutting edge chipset and benefit of massive "focus group"	11:41
* RST38h calls Ahura Mazda and the Tentacled One		11:41
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flailingmonkey	focus group begging to give opinions and not needing to be paid :p	11:41
khertan	AEGIS ("Antimatter Experiment: Gravity, Interferometry, Spectroscopy")	11:42
MohammadAG	you wish	11:42
MohammadAG	javispedro, khertan doesn't know about aegis	11:42
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Termana	khertan, did you know your nose grows when you lie?	11:43
Termana	:p	11:43
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Termana	khertan, also, logging out and logging back in didn't show it but thanks anyway :)	11:43
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prometoys	hi, does anybody use the n900 for tethering in fedora?	11:44
khertan	MohammadAG, warning: aegisSessionOpen() - failed to open platsec device (ret=-1) <<< hum ... i see aegis word here :)	11:44
khertan	Termana, trying is better than nothing	11:44
khertan	:)	11:44
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flailingmonkey	khertan: its harmattan security framework	11:45
MohammadAG	you know what platsec means right?	11:45
khertan	a poloneese cake ?	11:45
Termana	heh	11:45
lcuk	MohammadAG, morning, which apps are you doing with n950?	11:46
MohammadAG	lcuk, the one I PM'd you the other day	11:47
MohammadAG	as well as some other unannounced work :P	11:47
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lcuk	heh	11:48
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alterego	Urgh, some of these "developers" don't sound like they deserve their place on the DDP	11:49
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javispedro	~aegis	11:51
infobot	rumour has it, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism	11:51
Termana	alterego, based on their current project or past projects?	11:51
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alterego	Termana: just whining ..	11:51
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flailingmonkey	alterego: I didn't even bother putting in an application, because I don't have published work. I think thats a pretty sensible requirement	11:52
Termana	alterego, :p	11:52
alterego	flailingmonkey: yeah, lets hope most of these guys bring worthwhile apps ;)	11:52
alterego	Anyway, I'm gonna hit the shower,bbiab	11:53
MohammadAG	hit elop instead	11:53
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RST38h	"Hit the elop" sounds so well that t has to mean something special (I mean, other than hitting the actual Elop)	11:55
sandst1	RST38h: yeah, it's like 'Hammertime!"	11:55
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* RST38h suggsets: "Hit the elop" (engl., slang) - Engage into a long row of complaints about corporate governance and upper management ruining the good, technically sound projects		11:57
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flailingmonkey	won't catch on, as that happens so rarely	11:58
flailingmonkey	good technically sound projects i mean	11:58
lardman	morning	11:58
RST38h	moorning lardman	11:59
lardman	hi RST38h	11:59
lardman	dare I ask about emails....?	11:59
RST38h	lardman: no, not yet	11:59
RST38h	lardman: nobody knows when either	11:59
RST38h	lardman: But Doc has dug out the N950 NDA somewhere	11:59
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lardman	I had to log into my Nokia Developer account this morning, rather than it just remembering, but that may be nothing	12:00
lardman	certainly no device yet available for me	12:00
* lardman goes off to do some testing		12:01
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I'll ask again, did you accept the NDA?	12:16
alterego	Of course he accepted it	12:17
MohammadAG	and I remember a part of it mentioning it shouldn't be pasted anywhere	12:17
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ruskie	MohammadAG, he can paste it before he accepts it	12:19
ruskie	after that he can't	12:19
MohammadAG	I'd delete this then http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=25110#post25110	12:20
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jonwil	That section 5 is exactly why I could never work with a N950	12:29
jonwil	All of the thing I do involve reverse engineering or otherwise trying to make the platform better	12:29
alterego	jonwil: it's all bs, it's a default NDA Nokia use for everyone.	12:29
alterego	Doesn't mean much in the context of N9/50 harmattan as every developer working on MeeGo Community Edition breaks its' terms :)	12:30
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jonwil	btw, I am getting closer to having a clone of the Fremantle libdisplay.so mce plugin	12:30
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jonwil	it will need some testing by people to ensure it works though	12:30
jonwil	i.e. that nothing broke	12:31
jonwil	its surprisingly complex	12:31
MohammadAG	:D	12:31
RST38h	alterego: You are supposed to pay 500 euros for breaking it =)	12:31
jonwil	after libdisplay, I will go for some more mce plugins	12:32
ruskie	jonwil, so you're basically working on getting fremantle into Freemantle?	12:32
alterego	RST38h: pfft, they can f'off :P	12:32
alterego	RST38h: if I break it I expect a replacement :)	12:32
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RST38h	BTW, all the launchpad-specific pages are gone off forum.nokia.com	12:32
jonwil	I am working on cloning/finding info on specific bits of Fremantle to aid in other projects	12:32
RST38h	I cannot find a single one	12:32
RST38h	Developer Account Preferences still state both NDA and the Launchpad membership though	12:35
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alterego	I have a link on my N900 home screen which opens my developer account settings on nokia developer ..	12:36
alterego	Still no launchpad :(	12:36
Termana	alterego, still no launchpad here either	12:37
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alterego	I wanna start hacking on it.	12:37
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deimos	there is also a point that tell about a loan of 3 years. Nokia suppose to get it back after that time ?	12:38
RST38h	I guess the main question is whether Nokia will sitll exist in 3 years =(	12:39
alterego	Heh	12:39
RST38h	But we will see	12:39
Termana	ha	12:39
alterego	Nokia wont go under, as long as they've got MeeGo in the background	12:40
alterego	And the talented hardware designers they currently have.	12:40
alterego	The whole N8, E7, N9, N950 look is super sleek	12:40
RST38h	alterego: 1) Elop explicitely said there will not be Meego in the background	12:40
alterego	And it's unique, which is awesome.	12:40
alterego	RST38h: are you talking about that sea ray demo?	12:40
RST38h	alterego: 2) He also said that WP phoens are being developed in California, not in some stinky nordic shitspot	12:40
alterego	Yeah, that's rather retarded ..	12:41
RST38h	alterego: Which is [supposedly] unable to satisfy the sophisticated tastes of American customers	12:41
alterego	But then, I'm actually happy about it at the same time.	12:41
MohammadAG	s/that/he/	12:41
RST38h	alterego: And finally 3) lots of European Nokia engineers got the message and left by now	12:42
Arkenoi	RST38h, s/customers/operators/. no one gives a shit about customers in US, it is operator-controlled market	12:43
RST38h	alterego: So, in 3 years, only the Tentacled One can tell what will happen. But He is not saying.	12:43
alterego	No one, _should_ give a shit about the Us ..	12:43
cpscotti	what I hope is that at some point there won't be any Elop in the bg	12:43
MohammadAG	question is, where did they leave to	12:43
alterego	No one, _should_ give a shit about the Us ..	12:43
alterego	Yeah, we'll wait and see	12:43
RST38h	Arkenoi: Well, do not mix his public message with his real goals	12:43
MohammadAG	alterego++	12:43
jonwil	operators like WP7 because they can customize it a lot but at the same time its very locked down against user modification	12:44
RST38h	Arkenoi: For the public, he has to provide a plausible explanation of what is going on.	12:44
jonwil	Android is customizable	12:44
jonwil	but also user modifiable	12:44
RST38h	Arkenoi: So he says "Americas are the main market and Americans want an American-design phone"	12:44
alterego	The US is tiny compared to, Asia and the Middle East	12:44
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alterego	Fuck American market :)	12:44
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alterego	Concentrate on the more up-to-date European and Asian markets.	12:45
RST38h	Arkenoi: And his US investors listen to him and nod	12:45
ruskie	I really don't get it why an EU based company would make america their main market	12:46
ruskie	it just doesn't make sense	12:46
alterego	ruskie: indeed ..	12:46
alterego	It literally, doesn't make any sense.	12:46
robbiethe1st	MS Shill	12:46
robbiethe1st	Makes p[erfect sense	12:46
RST38h	ruskie: because US is where the money is?	12:47
ruskie	http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/comScore-July-11-MobilLens-report/ <-- especially when reading something like this the WP7 thing makes even less sense	12:47
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alterego	Well, it does kinda make sense, Nokia can't compete with the super high end magic that happens in asia, and they have no market share in super smart phones in Europe and the US ..	12:47
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RST38h	ruskie: because CEO is an American and he does not really care about weird slowpokes behind the ocean?	12:47
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ruskie	note to world... USA isn't the only thing around	12:48
RST38h	ruskie: For US investors and managers it is	12:48
RST38h	ruskie: And it actually works out pretty well for them	12:49
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cpscotti	alterego: thanks for the QGraphicsView->scale thing yesterday at the meetup.. made my day and stopped me from going on an ugly, epic-failed, path.. :)	12:51
alterego	:)	12:51
deimos	the CEO was also a manager of microsoft :)	12:51
alterego	cpscotti: no problem, have you tried it? :D	12:51
RST38h	Or did, anyway. Who knows what happens once US loses dominance	12:51
ruskie	asia takes over ;)	12:51
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: stop spreading FUD, point me to the passage stating the NDA itself includes itself into it, I.E. NDA is under NDA. Damn we're not the friggin CIA, but neverthelesas I have to kill you when I say one more word about it	12:51
alterego	cpscotti: sorry about the abrupt exit, you know, trains and losing track of time ;)	12:52
alterego	DocScrutinizer: you accepted an NDA when you created the developer account	12:52
alterego	Which could possibly cover other NDAs under that :P	12:52
cpscotti	alterego, yeah yeah.. I know how it works	12:52
alterego	Still, was a good evening	12:53
cpscotti	alterego, I just added graphicsView->scale(1.35,1.55) and.. voilá! :D	12:53
alterego	Nice :)	12:53
alterego	I'm glad it worked :D	12:54
cpscotti	the ratio's not the same bc of the menu on top	12:54
DocScrutinizer	alterego: if that'd contain any material marked "confidential" then you'd be right	12:54
cpscotti	me too	12:54
alterego	DocScrutinizer: well, I don't remember :)	12:54
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alterego	I always read them, but don't really remember what they say :D	12:54
DocScrutinizer	I clearly remember this particular NDA does NOT contain any note about it being confidential, and hell why should it???	12:55
RST38h	Doc: You can kill him not being the CIA. Being CIA just allows you to kill him remotely, from a drone	12:55
alterego	Heh	12:55
alterego	cpscotti: seeing and holding that N950 last night ..	12:56
alterego	Really looking forward to having my own :D	12:56
cpscotti	yeah.. crazy.. but they are coming.... I hope	12:56
alterego	I said it then, but it's definitely got the sex appeal / wow factor the N810 had.	12:56
cpscotti	I miss it already..	12:57
alterego	The N900 lacked it, but made up for it because it's just awesome, but the N950 just makes maemo look sexy again ..	12:57
alterego	cough meego	12:57
cpscotti	Lol	12:57
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cpscotti	btw.. the tablet there... a bit ugly aint it?	12:58
cpscotti	I tried on the bus for 5 mins.. got bored and went back to my n900 for entertainment	12:58
DocScrutinizer	btw you'll have a chance to read this particular NDA soon enough, and then point me to the "confidential" mark on top that's not there. Or you use google or a better search engine and find it already disclosed elsewhere so I'm talking about publicly available stuff, and that's usually not under anrstriction whatsoever	12:58
DocScrutinizer	anyway you need to make up your mind: am I the one nitpicking on the NDA, or are you even better than me on that nitpicking and even spreading FUD	13:00
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DocScrutinizer	((honestly kids, I probably can buy a preprinted form containing this exact wording on my next office utilities store))	13:02
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alterego	cpscotti: I'd recommend installing the wetab os on it.	13:05
DocScrutinizer	And when you stop acting like childs, ask yourself what damage is done to Nokia when this NDA gets public. Obviously none whatsoever	13:05
alterego	Though ubuntu 11.04 works quite nicely, you just need to use a keyboard with it ;)	13:05
DocScrutinizer	as there's ZERO confidential material in it	13:05
DocScrutinizer	the only faintly confidential material is the fact of existence of such an NDA at all, and that's been pretty self-evident with the community DDP	13:06
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cpscotti	alterego, Hmm, looks like a good idea (the wetab one). but I'll force myself to just play around the beast and do something cool out of that.. so.. the less useful the better	13:08
RST38h	Doc, stop fuming over nothing	13:08
RST38h	Whether it is ok or not to publish the NDA, it is your personal decision, nobody here can make you change it.	13:08
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RST38h	Nokia might, but then it will be between you and them	13:09
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alterego	cpscotti: at the least, update it to a newer tablet version ;)	13:11
alterego	The one it comes with is, well, super old.	13:11
cpscotti	ahh ok. So then the wetab one is the easier way out?	13:12
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Termana	DocScrutinizer, read sections 1a, 1b, 1c, 2, 3, 6 and 14 of the Nokia Developer NDA	13:12
RST38h	Oh, what a bunch of raving wikipedian IANALs =)	13:13
ruskie	isn't the proper term... armchair lawyers?	13:13
alterego	cpscotti: the wetab os is more mature, but the meego tablet build that comes on the exo is old, so if you want to hack on meego tablet ux, then I'd at least update the install.	13:13
DocScrutinizer	I won't, as Quim is a saner partner to discuss this stuff. See http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25124&postcount=469	13:13
alterego	But if you want to _use_ the tablet, I'd install wetab os ;)	13:14
RST38h	ruskie; yes, but it does not incude the asshole in it	13:14
ruskie	rofl	13:14
cpscotti	cool cool! Thanks.. by default I'd just think that what comes on it was what you'd get	13:14
alterego	Neah, I think you've also got a windows 7 license on the back ;)	13:15
Termana	DocScrutinizer, I was referring to disclosing information contained in the NDA for the N950	13:15
DocScrutinizer	Termana: MohammadAG: so if you want to start a legal case aginst me, you obviously have to find other partners. Quim won't evidently support you	13:15
MohammadAG	sigh, this discussion is still going?	13:16
DocScrutinizer	and for all that matters, in my book Quim == Nokia here	13:16
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Termana	DocScrutinizer, gees you make such a big deal about the writing in the subsequent NDA, but you are fine with ignoring the first one.	13:17
DocScrutinizer	Termana: I'm doing this legal mambojambo since ~30 years now. Don't tell me how to read NDA	13:17
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cpscotti	alterego, thanks!	13:17
DocScrutinizer	hell, I managed NDA stuff at OpenMoko	13:17
Termana	cool story bro	13:18
DocScrutinizer	and MY name is on first page of documents "disclosing stuff", so expect me to know my business	13:18
alterego	cpscotti: np :)	13:18
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DocScrutinizer	sorry for my pissed mood, but >>[2011-07-06 11:16:35] <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'll ask again, did you accept the NDA?<< sounds rather offensive to me	13:25
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, actually, none intended	13:26
lcuk	does anybody know how to (using grep/sed/awk) read just the latest version number from debian/changelog ?	13:27
MohammadAG	apparently talking about the N950 is causing arguments(?) or bad moods, let's talk N810s	13:27
DocScrutinizer	moo lcuk :-D	13:27
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MohammadAG	lcuk, Qt peeps	13:27
lcuk	moo!	13:27
lardman	I know how to stop the bad moods and arguments, send us emails!	13:27
RST38h	It is the long wait.	13:27
* RST38h feeds lcuk some grass		13:27
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: grep "wahtever .*" infile\|tail -n 1	13:28
javispedro	lcuk, $(shell head -n 1 debian/changelog \| sed 's/[^0-9.-]//g')	13:28
MohammadAG	head -1 debian/changelog \| sed 's/[^(]($[^)]$).*/\1/'	13:28
MohammadAG	lcuk, have fun	13:28
* lardman adds some tasty daisies		13:28
lcuk	\o/ thanks all	13:28
DocScrutinizer	ooh, head	13:28
DocScrutinizer	yeah	13:28
javispedro	3 answers, all of them different :D	13:28
Termana	lardman, nom nom nom emails	13:28
MohammadAG	I cheated though http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-developers/qt/x11-maemo/blobs/4.7-fremantle/debian/rules#line11	13:29
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Termana	heh	13:29
DocScrutinizer	mine the simplest as you don't need sed when you can use grep ;-)	13:29
javispedro	MohammadAG, hah, the answer I gave I use in drnoksnes debian/rule	13:29
lardman	Termana: you received anything yet?	13:29
Termana	lardman, nope, still not accepted into launchpad	13:29
lardman	hmm	13:29
lardman	I'm assuming I'm accepted as I can see that page, but still nothing to order	13:30
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG's the smartest as it really delivers exatly the string you asked for	13:31
RST38h	mhm, network is so slow today	13:31
DocScrutinizer	though head -1 tends to fail nowadays	13:31
lardman	Ah I see Doc has ordered	13:31
DocScrutinizer	yoh	13:32
javispedro	DocScrutinizer, my regexp is too strict though, of course it works well for my version numbering style	13:32
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I' also puzzled about $(shell ,,,)	13:33
javispedro	DocScrutinizer, comes from a makefile, which is where I bet it is going to be used in ;)	13:33
Termana	wow, this has to be the best N950 review ever - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0	13:33
MohammadAG	hey, it's not mine, it's Qt's debs' maintainer's	13:33
javispedro	*GNU makefile	13:33
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: anyway, a subshell in a subshell?	13:34
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, that's how makefile exec shell commands	13:34
javispedro	no, $(shell x) is standard GNU make syntax to spawn a shell -c "x", and capture stdout	13:34
DocScrutinizer	strange	13:34
MohammadAG	makefiles*	13:34
MohammadAG	CURRENTVERSION := $(shell head -1 debian/changelog \| sed 's/[^(]($[^)]$).*/\1/')	13:34
DocScrutinizer	afaik $( ) already opens a subshell	13:34
javispedro	in bash maybe	13:35
DocScrutinizer	meh	13:35
MohammadAG	and ash	13:35
DocScrutinizer	don't say the word!	13:35
MohammadAG	but not /usr/bin/make	13:35
DocScrutinizer	ok	13:35
MohammadAG	wow Termana, awesome review	13:35
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DocScrutinizer	make is a special critter	13:35
Termana	lardman, do you mean this page - https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 ? I just get "Unexpected error has occured. Please try again." and it's not listed under My programs	13:36
lardman	Where does one find "My Programs"?	13:37
Termana	lardman, https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml	13:37
Termana	near the bottom of that page	13:37
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trx	Termana i guess it will appear here : https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP?sfdc.tabName=01r20000000L8iX	13:38
Termana	Same error :p	13:38
trx	try to log out	13:38
trx	and back in	13:38
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Termana	tried that several times	13:39
lardman	I get some redirects and eventually back to the Device Distrubution page with no devices listed	13:39
trx	lardman me too	13:39
* lardman goes back to waiting		13:39
Termana	But, when trying to follow the launchpad application link from the email I get	13:39
Termana	"There is an existing membership application already for this program. The applicant will be notified by e-mail once the membership application has been reviewed."	13:39
trx	well, it will show up/not produce errors eventualy so all we need is patience :)	13:40
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Termana	In the mean time you should all watch that review I linked above, it's great!	13:41
* RST38h goes back to chewing nails		13:42
alterego	Termana: we know you're probably rick rolling again :P	13:42
alterego	Termana: if you didn't do it everyday ...	13:42
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alterego	Hi w00t__	13:43
Termana	alterego, have you checked your email? I sent you something earlier	13:43
alterego	pfft	13:43
alterego	My email checks me	13:44
alterego	If you've sent something it must be the wrong address :P	13:44
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Termana	alterego, it was an @msn.com one I pulled from Maemo packages	13:45
alterego	Oh	13:45
* alterego checks		13:45
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alterego	Hah, you're in junk :P	13:47
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alterego	I'd believe the email Termana if I hadn't already seen an authentic one :P	13:49
lardman	reboot time, the wonders of Windows, brb	13:49
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Termana	alterego, I don't know what your talking about?	13:49
alterego	And obfuscating links in emails is a no, no :P	13:49
alterego	How many other people did you troll or is it just me?	13:50
Termana	darn it	13:50
Termana	alterego, MohammadAG came up with the idea and 5 minutes later I got him with it	13:50
alterego	Heh	13:50
MohammadAG	kojacker ordered his N950	13:50
alterego	Neat	13:51
alterego	Where's mine? :P	13:51
alterego	Termana: also, that isn't the address I'm using on nokia developer ;)	13:51
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alterego	Termana: also, that isn't the address I'm using on nokia developer ;)	13:52
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alterego	It's not called a spam bucket account for no reason ..	13:52
MohammadAG	Termana, didn't click the link though :P	13:52
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MohammadAG	I mean, Nokia doesn't use Tinyurls :P	13:53
alterego	MohammadAG: yes, that was one of the give aways :P	13:53
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javispedro	my n950 is on a trash can somewhere in HEL	13:56
MohammadAG	http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23n950club	13:56
javispedro	it's just waiting for it be to found	13:56
* javispedro puts on indiana jones hat and mentally sings indiana theme		13:57
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DocScrutinizer	Termana: I went thru the nuisance to read LAunchpad/Developer NDA agreement and evaluate the ponts you quoted: they clearly define "Information" as "technical and/or commercial" in 1 a)b)c). An NDA is none of each, it's a contract and as such not information per se. So the further points need no evaluation	13:58
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hiemanshu_	MohammadAG: anything yet?	13:59
MohammadAG	hiemanshu_, Elop leaves Nokia!	13:59
DocScrutinizer	MUHAHAHA	13:59
DocScrutinizer	if only this was true	13:59
hiemanshu_	MohammadAG: muhahahaha! I'll now buy a N950 soon :D	14:00
hiemanshu_	MohammadAG: and I'll gift you one too	14:00
javispedro	Elop leaves "Nokia, a Microsoft subsidiary" because now that he's back into redmond Elop also wants his old office back.	14:00
DocScrutinizer	but wait, maybe not. Him leaving probably means "job accomplished, Nokia dead". So...	14:00
hiemanshu_	MohammadAG: and preorder a Nokia N10 :D	14:00
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MohammadAG	Nah	14:00
MohammadAG	Nokia still has a chance	14:00
DocScrutinizer	actually I winder what this RM-715(?) is	14:01
sp3000	timeless: pong (+20h)	14:01
DocScrutinizer	wonder*	14:01
MohammadAG	MeeGo isn't bad for consumers	14:01
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, remember the RX-71?	14:01
hiemanshu_	I wish they would just let me order my fucking N950	14:01
DocScrutinizer	yo	14:01
DocScrutinizer	aah, I see a schema	14:01
DocScrutinizer	maybe ;-P	14:02
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: so did you finally agree to the NDA and order your N950?	14:02
MohammadAG	nah, sure of it :P	14:02
MohammadAG	don't ask how though	14:02
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* RST38h sees the huge green robot eating symbians, webosians, and elopians alike		14:03
DocScrutinizer	http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/mce-hal.h >>#define PRODUCT_RM716_STR "RM-716" /*< ??? /	14:03
RST38h	While the latter engage in their petty market squabbles	14:03
hiemanshu_	RST38h: the one wiping the shit on the road?	14:04
robbiethe1st	RST38h: Oh well, so long as we still have devices with open bootloader, we can then load our own super-OS onto the Android device of our choice	14:04
javispedro	hah	14:04
javispedro	first step after the green robot eats the market is forget about glibc 3d drivers.	14:04
RST38h	Meanwhile: A former Flextronics exec is facing up to 30 years in prison for leaking details of Apple's iPhone 4 development as part of an insider trading scam	14:04
Termana	alterego, MohammadAG: I'll stop pranking everyone for a while	14:04
hiemanshu_	robbiethe1st: HTC is finally going to unlock theirs	14:04
javispedro	Termana, why?	14:04
robbiethe1st	I heard about that	14:04
Termana	But have you checked your emails lately	14:04
Termana	:p	14:05
Termana	j/k	14:05
hiemanshu_	Termana: you dont have my email ID do you? :P	14:05
hiemanshu_	Termana: spam GeneralAntilles and wake him up with disco lights :P	14:05
javispedro	RST38h, the details include keywords such as magic fairy powder?	14:05
RST38h	Termana: you are actually gone off that wiki.meego.com page	14:05
RST38h	Termana: I wonder why...	14:05
RST38h	javispedro: If I tell you, they will make me share the cell with him!	14:06
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu_: gan said the alarm is off when "house sleeps"	14:06
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: damn :(	14:06
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders where to pick up the DHL tracking number of the order :-D**		14:07
RST38h	javispedro: Have you ever shared a jail cell with a business executive? It must be torturous!	14:07
Termana	RST38h, from being a naughty boy?	14:07
* hiemanshu_ shoots DocScrutinizer		14:07
javispedro	~shoot DocScrutinizer	14:07
* infobot shoots DocScrutinizer in the foot with a spitwad!		14:07
hiemanshu_	~trout DocScrutinizer	14:07
* infobot slaps DocScrutinizer around a bit with a large trout!		14:07
Termana	hiemanshu_, no I don't unfortunately. I was going to do you earlier but I couldn't find your email address. Consider yourself lucky! :p	14:08
hiemanshu_	Termana: muhahaha :D	14:08
infobot	//kick hiemanshu_	14:08
lardman	re	14:09
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hiemanshu_	my PC at home still has the script running, so if I get an email with N950, it would start playing music, that would freak out everyone at home :P	14:09
hiemanshu_	lardman: anything other than launchpad yet?	14:09
javispedro	RST38h, but those usually get out "quite early", fortunately.	14:09
javispedro	(for his cellmates, that is ;) )	14:09
lardman	hiemanshu_: nothing on the order page and no email either	14:10
hiemanshu_	lardman: ugh, sad :(	14:10
lardman	yeah	14:10
DocScrutinizer	MUHAHAHA actually there's no trace on my launchpad site about any order	14:11
DocScrutinizer	I gather it's been a hoax by termana	14:11
Termana	DocScrutinizer, I went the extra mile for you my friend	14:12
lardman	really?	14:12
* lardman removes Doc from hish Xmas card list :p		14:12
javispedro	btw	14:13
hiemanshu_	"You have a watch waiting to be collected' <-- WTF :(	14:13
javispedro	on unrelated good news, nokia care does sell n900 stylus, for 6€ apiece.	14:13
MohammadAG	LOL	14:13
lardman	ouch	14:13
DocScrutinizer	lardman: but... but... I got the paperprint of the orderpage!!1!!1!!!1!eleven	14:14
RST38h	It is the Meego watch!!!	14:14
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: stop wasting paper, nokia is wasting enough already	14:14
lardman	send me the device so I can confirm you had one, and I'll put you back on the list	14:14
DocScrutinizer	hahaha	14:14
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, whoever came up with that is a genius	14:14
javispedro	MohammadAG, he's not, it would have been much funnier if s/watch/n8/	14:15
hiemanshu_	MohammadAG: hah, well I renewed a subscription to something, they are sending me a free watch	14:15
DocScrutinizer	AAAAAH	14:15
RST38h	WP7 phone would be even funnier	14:15
hiemanshu_	MohammadAG: I dont care about watches though	14:15
MohammadAG	hiemanshu_, oh so it's a not a troll	14:15
RST38h	We would be able to see Doc explode right here	14:15
hiemanshu_	MohammadAG: nope	14:15
DocScrutinizer	>>>Your order has been received<<< >>>Your order has been sent<<< >>>Ticket for order OID-052736 [ ref:00D2Kmvd.5.......]<<<	14:15
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: sent? :D	14:16
DocScrutinizer	now mail actually starts getting interesting	14:16
RST38h	Arrival from Nigeria in 10 days.	14:16
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lardman	customs invoice number to pay?	14:16
RST38h	When you receive and unpack your order, do not forget to feed him.	14:16
Hurrian	hmm, my SD swap script doesnt seem to be working properly	14:16
hiemanshu_	RST38h: you mean blow her up? :P	14:17
RST38h	hiemanshu: This strictly depends on what you have ordered	14:17
DocScrutinizer	>>Your order has been sent on 6.7.2011. Please see the order information below.<<	14:17
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: w00t	14:17
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: so you should one of the first people to recieve it	14:17
DocScrutinizer	those guys are fast as lightning	14:17
hiemanshu_	yeah	14:17
DocScrutinizer	I wonder how that could happen	14:17
hiemanshu_	now only if I could order one :/	14:18
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: I can imagine quim standing there with a trout :P	14:18
hiemanshu_	'WORK YOU BIATCHES! WORK'	14:18
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RST38h	More like calling them on a mouldy rotary phone	14:18
RST38h	All covered with cobwebs	14:19
hiemanshu_	now the DDP page wont load :(	14:19
javispedro	because half of this channel hit F5.	14:19
DocScrutinizer	nah, they are used to send 1000000 devioces per day	14:19
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: so they are sending it from .fi?	14:19
DocScrutinizer	:shrug:	14:20
hiemanshu_	I know apple sends me from china, much much closer to me :D	14:20
DocScrutinizer	Hi	14:20
DocScrutinizer	please let me know once you have received the device.	14:20
DocScrutinizer	Thank you,	14:20
DocScrutinizer	Joan	14:20
DocScrutinizer	DAS	14:20
hiemanshu_	DocScrutinizer: no tracking number?	14:20
Hurrian	ah, lucky bastards getting the N950	14:20
hiemanshu_	Hurrian: only DocScrutinizer	14:20
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DocScrutinizer	>>You will also receive an automatic email notification from the courier providing you the shipment details. <<	14:20
hiemanshu_	ah	14:21
javispedro	ok, votes for kicking all the bastards who have a device from this channel?	14:21
hiemanshu_	so once they collect it for shipment, they'll send it to you	14:21
hiemanshu_	javispedro: +1	14:21
hiemanshu_	javispedro: Jaffa goes first, then X-Fade	14:21
Corsac	DocScrutinizer: I guess you already read today xkcd? :)	14:21
DocScrutinizer	nope :-D	14:21
Corsac	then go :)	14:22
X-Fade	javispedro: I'd like to see you do that :)	14:22
javispedro	=)	14:22
javispedro	half of the chanops have a device, so it would be a kinda takeover =)	14:22
hiemanshu_	X-Fade: come on do eet! kick yourself out :P	14:23
RST38h	It gets takeovererer and takeovererer	14:24
DocScrutinizer	Corsac: exactly to the point X-D	14:25
Hurrian	http://beta.html5test.com/results-mobile.html	14:25
Hurrian	dohoho, nokia	14:25
hiemanshu_	Hurrian: well they'll have to improve to beat iOS 5	14:26
Hurrian	webkit vs webkit? fight!	14:26
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hiemanshu_	webkit vs webkit2	14:27
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Hurrian	anyone know if the new M6 browser is open source?	14:27
hiemanshu_	plus their JS engine, nitro something	14:27
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RST38h	Windows Phone 7 is 25???	14:28
hiemanshu_	hmmm, there seems to be nothing yet	14:28
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hiemanshu_	and /me has to leave	14:28
hiemanshu_	see all of you from home	14:28
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Hurrian	hmm, /me has bad feeling that nokia-binaries is hueg	14:32
javispedro	No programs. No programs. No programs.	14:32
DocScrutinizer	""This is the reference implementation of the self-referential joke"" http://xkcd.com/917/ HAHAHA	14:32
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javispedro	Launchpadthis launchpadthat, when are we launchpading into launchpad?	14:35
Appiah	my battery on the n900 seams dead and wont charge	14:35
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Appiah	not even 1 year old yet	14:35
Hurrian	appiah, desktop charger or 5800 XPressmusic	14:35
ruskie	Appiah, hook the device to the power plugged charger and leave it for a couple of hours...	14:35
ruskie	or maybe your usb connector messed up	14:35
Appiah	ruskie: oh ok	14:35
ruskie	Hurrian, never really needed that one	14:35
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Appiah	no I got another battery and it started charging right away	14:36
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ruskie	well if it's near flat it needs quite a while to get up	14:36
ruskie	and yeah... needs to be using the power plugged adapter	14:36
Hurrian	hmm, i'm thinking of buying a bag worth of batteries and swapping every time it goes flat	14:36
Appiah	beacuse I got a low warning , then I started charging , 1 hour later i unplugg and 10secs later it dies	14:37
Appiah	and wouldnt charge again.	14:37
Hurrian	thats odd	14:37
Appiah	But I'll try again, right now I need to recive some calls :)	14:37
Hurrian	1 hour charges roughly ~40% on the n900's stock battery	14:37
ruskie	that is odd	14:38
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Appiah	eeeh	14:39
Appiah	wait	14:39
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Appiah	this other battery is not charging either >_>	14:39
Appiah	dead usb?	14:39
Hurrian	appiah, likely	14:40
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Appiah	it just happens to be nearly full	14:40
Hurrian	use a desktop charger , etc	14:40
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Hurrian	looking at pics of older NITs, the kickstand's as large as the whole device	14:40
Hurrian	that'd be nice to have on the N900	14:40
Appiah	I'm using the wallcharger that was included	14:40
ruskie	hmm	14:40
ruskie	then sounds like a broken usb	14:41
Appiah	Nokia replaces this for free right?	14:41
ruskie	should	14:41
javispedro	yes, by giving you a n8.,	14:41
ruskie	but you might get a swap device	14:41
Appiah	javispedro: please dont joke about that!	14:41
ruskie	he's not	14:41
ruskie	people actually get that	14:41
ruskie	send a n900 -> get back a n8	14:41
Appiah	in what countries?	14:41
Hurrian	sometimes, a E7	14:41
ruskie	n8 is the n900 swap device	14:41
Appiah	cant fucking be	14:42
Hurrian	appiah, if n900 stocks run out	14:42
ruskie	frankly I rather take a soldering iron to mine	14:42
ruskie	if that needs to be done	14:42
Appiah	gonna call the store I bought it from and check first	14:42
Hurrian	ruskie ++	14:42
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ruskie	even if I need to wire up each wire separately and have it sticking out of the device I would still do it	14:42
Hurrian	appiah, the USB replacement is in the service manuals	14:43
Hurrian	if it hasnt snapped off yet	14:43
ruskie	that is after I would try with the actual local service	14:43
ruskie	since they aren't nokia they might actually fix it	14:43
Hurrian	lots of other nokia devices made in 2008-2009 use micro-b, you should be able to get it fixed	14:43
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Hurrian	and if nokia charges out the ass for a USB repair, take it to a local shop	14:44
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DocScrutinizer	HAH http://xkcd.com/912/	14:44
Appiah	I'm going to the store were I bought it , and I know they dont send it to "nokia" but a service company	14:44
Hurrian	print out any additional directions from the N900 usb repair thread	14:44
Appiah	same company that handles most computers and TV's in this country..	14:45
Hurrian	tell them to do that to it	14:45
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ruskie	but so far had 0 issues with the usb port knock on wood	14:45
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ruskie	and had it since december 4th 2009 the day it was available here	14:46
Hurrian	hmm, really depends on device	14:47
ruskie	I think also how one treats it	14:47
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Termana	ruskie, yeah I had no problem with the USB port on my N900	14:47
Termana	Until I ripped it open and cracked the usb port off	14:47
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: I'd check the friggin wallcharger first	14:47
ruskie	or try a usb charge?	14:48
DocScrutinizer	and would conect device to PC to do so	14:48
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Hurrian	Termana, lol wut	14:48
Termana	lol	14:49
Termana	I didn't really crack the usb port off	14:49
Hurrian	hmm, i wonder if there's a way to make the USB port actually hook to the case	14:49
Termana	But i did rip it open, that tex screw gave me this shits and it was already dead	14:49
Termana	the*	14:49
Hurrian	like... every other Nokia device.	14:49
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Hurrian	first, why the **** is there a gap between the case and the USB port	14:49
Termana	Hurrian, I meant the hardware	14:50
Hurrian	i know	14:50
Hurrian	just complaining about how the symbian nseries people were likely involved in the N900 design	14:50
DocScrutinizer	Hurrian: there's a gap to allow PCB insertion to the case	14:50
Termana	Hurrian, it just looked like you were making a joke about Nokia devices being dead (dead end as the tmo people say)	14:51
DocScrutinizer	Hurrian: of course you could mount a usb receptacle to the case and solder to board with 5 wires	14:51
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Hurrian	@Termana, uhh, nope	14:51
DocScrutinizer	6 actually	14:51
Termana	Hurrian, well it was a good joke, so should have claimed it	14:51
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Hurrian	docscrutinizer, i'd like to be able to disassemble the thing ;)	14:51
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, pretty much that's hindering disassembly	14:52
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Hurrian	in addition, i'd still like to make my white and green N900 case	14:52
Hurrian	which i'll probably do with a lot of vinyl stickers	14:53
ruskie	hmm apparently Nokia is dropping Japan market	14:53
Appiah	DocScrutinizer: I tried 3	14:53
Appiah	2 of them are nokia original	14:53
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Appiah	+ i tried 3 usb cables	14:53
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	14:53
Hurrian	ruskie, not surprising	14:53
Termana	ruskie, for real this time	14:53
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: and you can activate and use mass storage mode?	14:53
Appiah	nope	14:54
ruskie	and apparently the main player on the Japanese market is Apple???!!!???	14:54
Appiah	get nothing	14:54
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* ruskie tries to figure that out...		14:54
Termana	ruskie, not really surprising	14:54
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: then your usb receptacle is broken	14:54
Hurrian	how the hell? apple in the japanese market?	14:54
ruskie	yeah	14:54
Termana	haven't you seen the Japanese with their sausages?	14:54
ruskie	same reaction	14:54
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: check for debris	14:54
Appiah	I'm making a trip to the store, and gonna ask em not to replace the phone if they are not gonna fix it , but just send it back	14:54
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: or bent contacts	14:54
ruskie	considering that they use something other than what us or europe use for mobile stuff iirc	14:54
Appiah	DocScrutinizer: looks fine	14:54
Appiah	but it does look a bit loose	14:55
Appiah	or like it turned a bit	14:55
DocScrutinizer	touch it carefully - does it move	14:55
Hurrian	ruskie, no, they're mostly GSM+WCDMA	14:55
Termana	ruskie, Apple accommodated that	14:55
Termana	With the iPhone 4	14:55
Appiah	DocScrutinizer: with what?	14:55
Hurrian	only that they're carrier-locked like fuck	14:55
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: fingernail, match, toothpick...	14:56
Hurrian	doc: stylus!	14:56
Appiah	does not really move..	14:56
DocScrutinizer	yeah!	14:56
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: let it check at a competent repair store	14:56
Appiah	Hurrian: :D	14:56
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: ask your dealer about warranty swap	14:57
Appiah	yes I will	14:57
DocScrutinizer	Appiah: make sure you get your N900 back	14:57
Appiah	like I said	14:57
Hurrian	uses for the N900 stylus: drawing in MyPaint, using the horribly-hildonized connection settings menu, and poking people	14:57
Appiah	If they wont fix it , send it back , dont replace	14:57
ruskie	Hurrian, I thought they used some odd freqs as well	14:57
Appiah	well wish me luck	14:58
ruskie	atleast read alot about your phone most likely won't work in japan type stories	14:58
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Hurrian	ruskie, should still at least be GSM	14:58
ruskie	so basic service	14:59
Hurrian	yes	14:59
ruskie	friend of mine that is now living and working there bought a LiMO phone	14:59
ruskie	and it seems they have quite selection of those from various operators as well	14:59
DocScrutinizer	IIRC in Japan you have to register your IMEI to carrier	15:00
Hurrian	Doc - it's SIM registration	15:00
DocScrutinizer	so NO imported 'alien' phone will work	15:00
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DocScrutinizer	IIRC that's how they keep their markets clean in Japan and Korea	15:01
ruskie	and probably makes imeis a high value target	15:02
DocScrutinizer	it's even a crime to try and forge IMEI to make your unregistered phone work	15:02
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ruskie	legal registered ones that is	15:02
DocScrutinizer	are ~200 bucks if you get at all, again IIRC	15:02
Hurrian	DocScrutinizer : >implying IMEI forging isnt illegal in a large portion of the world	15:02
* RST38h isn't sure that the JP situation can be called "a market"		15:03
RST38h	Too heavily regulated, to believe you	15:03
DocScrutinizer	Hurrian: remember the "IMEI 3645***345" line on that NOKLA phone yesterday?	15:03
Hurrian	yeah	15:03
DocScrutinizer	Hurrian: I guess that's the kind of IMEI forging you get sued for in Korea and Japan	15:04
Hurrian	docscrutinizer, my gov't had a huge problem reprogramming the cheap crap phones you buy from China	15:05
Hurrian	on a side note, it is a PITA to reprogram IMEI on anything but chinese phones	15:05
DocScrutinizer	carriers have their own phones that are registered OOTB. If you import your phone, you need to ask them to register it, and either it's prohibitively expensive or they outright refuse to do	15:05
Hurrian	iirc, nokia phones require a baseband replacement for changing IMEI	15:05
* ruskie tries to recall what he wanted to take a look at...		15:06
DocScrutinizer	for sure not	15:06
DocScrutinizer	there's always a way to flash a new IMEI usually	15:06
DocScrutinizer	you just need the signing key ;-D	15:07
Hurrian	most people in my country just say screw that and obtain some cheap BB5 phone	15:08
Hurrian	eh, i remember IMEI changing used to be profitable with older baseband chips from different vendors	15:09
Hurrian	now it's all fucking locked down ;)	15:09
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Hurrian	sometimes, it's even in ROM (although it's a side effect of preventing unlocking)	15:10
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Hurrian	on a side note, i wonder how people spend $500 on a phone and have it constrained to cdma	15:12
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ruskie	shouldn't it be still possible transitioning between cdma operators?	15:12
ruskie	just harder?	15:13
Hurrian	ruskie, not every country has CDMA	15:13
nid0	ruskie, the point is prolly that there're hardly any cdma operators	15:13
Hurrian	also, you're f---d if the cdma operator doesnt want to register your meid	15:13
ruskie	we are talking about cdma2000 based network ala Verizon?	15:15
Hurrian	yes.	15:15
Hurrian	although, cdma operators have you at their mercy if you want to switch	15:15
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ruskie	well gsm operators had you at their mercy as well really	15:15
ruskie	with cell locking to network and such	15:15
Hurrian	ruskie, at least you can unlock and transfer to another network by popping in a new SIMN	15:16
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ruskie	you can't unlock if it's sim locked to the originator network	15:16
Hurrian	some operators even give you the unlock code or the software can be unlocked by some speshal flashing jig	15:17
ruskie	they either need to unlock it for you or yeah you need to unlock it some way	15:17
Hurrian	it's different for every manufacturer tho	15:17
Hurrian	some can be unlocked in system software, some need srs hax	15:17
ruskie	around here they charged quite a premium to unlock phones	15:17
Hurrian	ruskie, $10 around here isnt bad	15:17
ruskie	now iirc it's all free	15:18
ruskie	but I've stopped buying on-contract phones	15:18
ruskie	only bought one... and not really worth it	15:18
Hurrian	if you lurk around a certain forum, they'll freely give out cracked versions of unlocker apps	15:18
Hurrian	which are a b**** to find anywhere else	15:19
Hurrian	@ruskie, one operator sells sim locked devices in kiosks	15:19
ruskie	I rather pay the manufacturer the pure price for the device than pay the operator a 160 markup for the device	15:19
Hurrian	whee cheap devices... oh wait it's simlocked	15:19
Hurrian	basically, prepaid simlock (lol)	15:19
flux	it's sort of suprising that the idea of detachable sim cards was ever implemented	15:20
ruskie	I think all prepaid and mobile internet devices around here are simlocked	15:20
flux	wouldn't the operators have been much happier had it not been, I wonder	15:20
ruskie	because they sell them as a "package"	15:20
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Hurrian	what usually happens is that people take them to unlock shops	15:20
Hurrian	flux , prolly was a time when operators were less evil	15:20
ruskie	flux, wouldn't know... never discussed this with anyone in the business	15:20
nid0	contract phones in the uk are reasonably worthwhile if you actually use it, and getting non locked devices is easy on all carriers	15:20
Hurrian	hmm, i still remember the time when SMS was charged $0 and calls were charged out. the. ass.	15:21
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ruskie	unless the operator forces me I don't plan on changing my package choice simply because I have no need for paying 2 eurs extra so I can get 50 minutes free/month	15:21
ruskie	considering I don't even remotely use up that many minutes	15:22
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Appiah	just left my n900 to the store, I did leave a message in the description of the error that I dont want a n8 replacement	15:33
Appiah	not that the people in the store had any idea on what I was talking about. But now I just have to wait about 8 weeks and see	15:33
ruskie	fun	15:33
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ieatlint	woo, n950 order being processed	15:37
Termana	sad panda :(	15:38
Termana	:p	15:38
trx	ieatlint when did your launchpad account got active?	15:38
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ieatlint	march	15:40
ieatlint	first time it's been useful actually, heh	15:41
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ieatlint	glad it finally paid off :P	15:41
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Termana	Holey shite	15:41
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Termana	Some progress - my Launchpad account has been approved	15:42
trx	march..	15:42
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trx	mine today, i hope i wont wait that long before mine gets useful :)	15:43
Termana	Still can't access any of the areas though	15:43
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trx	they are empty anyway	15:44
ieatlint	yeah, hence my comment on how useful it is	15:44
ieatlint	if you go to "support center" there is a "device distribution" tab	15:44
ieatlint	but it was always empty for me... i got sent an email telling me an n950 was waiting for me	15:45
alterego	Everyone's launchpad account is being approved	15:46
alterego	Except mine :(	15:46
alterego	I should have been right at the top	15:46
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Termana	alterego, heh, mine only just got approved. Hold on tight! :p	15:46
Corsac	well, at least you were selected to have an n950 :)	15:46
alterego	And I held an N950 last night .. And it was sooooo sweeeet ..	15:46
Corsac	there are much more people that weren't selected :)	15:46
alterego	Pfft	15:46
Termana	alterego, you should have just taken it :\ :p	15:46
alterego	Termana: they were going to give it to me.	15:47
Termana	I know	15:47
alterego	But I had to turn it down, it's kinda too late to cancel the DDP stuff.	15:47
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alterego	otoh, I was kinda right about today being the day :)	15:48
alterego	Though probably not for me :P	15:48
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fiferboy	alterego: Mine was approved about 5 minutes ago	15:50
flux	is launchpad useful for other than perhaps getting an n950?-)	15:51
alterego	Nice	15:51
fiferboy	alterego: There is still hope for you	15:51
alterego	flux: it's useful for getting pre-release hardware if you're a developer, the DDP is a prize in the form of an N950 _and_ quick launchpad verification :)	15:51
ruskie	I really can't justify trying to get a n950... not even remotely interested in developing for it	15:51
alterego	Android fanboy?	15:52
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ruskie	you wish	15:52
ruskie	to honest	15:52
alterego	Eh?	15:52
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alterego	Why would I care what you prefered to develop for?	15:52
ruskie	alterego, I don't code much, what I do code tends to be not even user visible most of the time	15:52
alterego	m'hmm	15:53
ruskie	I mostly hack on existing stuff	15:53
Termana	alterego, I'm not sure whether being verified for launchpad is really a prize except for the explicit purpose of getting the N950 :P	15:53
alterego	You probably wouldn't be eledgible then :P	15:53
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ruskie	alterego, as said to honest to lie about the true purpose	15:53
alterego	Termana: that depends if you want to get other devices from Nokia to test your stuff on	15:53
ruskie	else I'd just spin out stuff about porting whatever things to it and so on	15:54
alterego	Well, if you're capable you could have just applied and ported some apps or something.	15:54
alterego	Worth it imo	15:54
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DocScrutinizer	ok, finally DHL tracking	16:00
divan	Nokia N8xx concept.. http://www.coroflot.com/ultrajjo/nokia-concept-smartphone/4	16:01
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* cpscotti out of launchpad so far.. Will try to stop checking every 3(0) mins.		16:04
cpscotti	ughh	16:04
Termana	cpscotti, you'll get an email now when it's ready	16:05
DocScrutinizer	alterego: the individuals Launchpad mebership seems to generally NOT allow you to receive any pre-release hw	16:05
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Termana	Hmm that's strange	16:06
Termana	They've locked me out of launchpad :p	16:07
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DocScrutinizer	I wasn't exactly easy to find out why DDP is empty for me, but finally somebody pointed me to a little word like "corporate" when Launchpad description explained about hw for developers	16:07
alterego	Hmm	16:07
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Termana	err	16:07
Termana	nevermind, clicked the wrong link I think	16:07
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cpscotti	Termana, hope so.. otherwise veins in my brain will start to act weird a blow up	16:08
DocScrutinizer	so your individual launchpad account is really mostly void	16:08
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divan	DocScrutinizer, do you mean that account type 'Individual' isn't suitable for those who in the n950 receiving list?	16:09
DocScrutinizer	you have access to sales balance of Q2/Q3/2010 or sth	16:09
DocScrutinizer	divan: no, it's the correct account for N950	16:09
alterego	Neat, obs support for Harmattan :)	16:09
* alterego attempts to build something.		16:10
DocScrutinizer	divan: but there were zero other devices available via that DDP page	16:10
* ruskie attempts to not melt in this heat		16:10
divan	DocScrutinizer, ok. The absence of any news/updates make me a bit unsure if I applied correctly.	16:11
DocScrutinizer	divan: I know that feeling	16:11
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DocScrutinizer	divan: you got a mail from quim "ACCEPTED"?	16:11
divan	DocScrutinizer, yep, and replied with my developer ID.	16:12
alterego	divan: me too, lets stick together ;)	16:12
DocScrutinizer	then just wait until your device gets available. You'll receive a mail and device will show up on URL https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950	16:12
alterego	There's probably just under another our of Finnish work time left ..	16:12
alterego	Though some people reported getting launchpad access over night.	16:13
* alterego makes an egg sandwich		16:13
* lardman shivers after coming out of a -8C room		16:13
lardman	hmm, still no email	16:13
* javispedro wants to be in that -8C room		16:13
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lardman	lol	16:13
* ruskie wants to be in a 20C or lower room...		16:14
lardman	got nippy after 5 min	16:14
* lardman heads to a meeting		16:14
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* divan got completely soaked today in the rain.		16:16
* DocScrutinizer feels not exactly comfortable with being the only(?) one who got a device shipped today		16:16
DocScrutinizer	must be wrong	16:17
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DocScrutinizer	I wonder if konttori...	16:17
GAN900	It's quite irritating having Maemo reboot in the middle of the night and uboot default to MeeGo.	16:17
GAN900	No programs!	16:17
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: HAH	16:17
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: that's clearly a flaw in uBoot	16:17
DocScrutinizer	this MUST get sticky	16:18
javispedro	No programs!	16:18
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: rename the uBoot.menu(?) file on uSD	16:18
DocScrutinizer	?	16:18
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: your guardian angel clearly works for nokia.	16:19
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: looks like. o.O I wonder how I earned that	16:19
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DocScrutinizer	always seemed like the majority of Nokians rather dislike me, for being a bit "asperger"	16:20
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javispedro	No programs!	16:20
alterego	Heh	16:21
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: the keyword these days is "fringe", as coined by qgil	16:21
pauly	hey lol dont get mad at me	16:21
alterego	Dunham	16:21
pauly	but anyone wanna trade their n8 for my n900	16:21
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javispedro	we need a #meego-fringe channel, best way to describe what we'd do there.	16:22
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you think fringe is a positive attribute now?	16:22
* alterego branches meego-terminal to add multiwindow support.		16:22
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: definitely...	16:23
DocScrutinizer	ok	16:23
DocScrutinizer	I think I'm definitely fringe ;-P	16:23
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DocScrutinizer	always been	16:23
javispedro	I remember the first days of Fringe when people noticed "Artificial Intelligence" appeared on the list of fringe sciences ;)	16:23
alterego	Heh	16:24
javispedro	my uni's dept. of software was not amused :)	16:24
jonwil	so does anyone here actually care about my efforts to make the N900 better?	16:24
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jonwil	through improvements to Fremantle	16:24
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, is intelligence a science, after all?	16:24
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Termana	jonwil, I'm sure there is someone	16:25
Termana	A lot of us are just excited about the N9/N950	16:25
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: DEFINITELY!!! how can you ask such things?	16:25
javispedro	O. M. G.	16:25
Termana	and DocScrutinizer is too worried about what people think of him	16:25
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javispedro	Nokia is apologising to me for delaying my Launchpad application	16:26
javispedro	... and I'm in!	16:26
Termana	javispedro, Nokia... apologising? Screenshot that stuff!	16:26
DocScrutinizer	Termana: I'm never worried about what people think about me. Otherwise I wouldn't know where to stop worrying	16:26
Termana	:p	16:26
MohammadAG	Termana, do you ever sleep?	16:27
jonwil	I would say that the N900 is a BETTER piece of hardware than either the N950 or the N9	16:27
Termana	MohammadAG, hell nah. It's only 11pm here	16:27
javispedro	I'm in, I'm in! /me clicks URLs around like crazy	16:27
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: depending on requirement specs I tend to agree mostly	16:27
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jonwil	The main reason I consider the N900 to be so good is that the touchscreen is BETTER than any other TS I have ever used	16:28
jonwil	including that on the iPhone and the HTC Desire	16:28
divan	jonwil, even though I'll get N950, I bought the second N900 last week. Cause I'm in doubt that we'll have a kind of a such great device in the feature.	16:28
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: and N950 comes with c-ts which I hate	16:28
petteri	so it seems that n9(50) has new terminal app. Anyone knows if it is opensource and if it would possible to port it to N900?	16:29
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DocScrutinizer	divan: ++	16:29
fiferboy_	petteri: It is in gitorious	16:29
petteri	fiferboy_: do you have link?	16:29
fiferboy_	I think it is QML based, so probably workable for N900	16:29
javispedro	it cannot be fully qml based	16:29
fiferboy_	https://gitorious.org/meego-terminal	16:29
fiferboy_	javispedro: Probably not fully, no	16:29
javispedro	I'd be surprised if it is =)	16:30
petteri	thanks, I will take a look	16:30
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fiferboy_	I would be impressed if it was	16:30
javispedro	ah, so it is based on kterminal	16:30
javispedro	*kconsole	16:30
fiferboy_	Actually, looks like pyqt4 is used for the interface	16:30
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MohammadAG	ew	16:31
GAN900	Yesterday I said it could only get worse if javispedro got one too--now it is!!	16:31
MohammadAG	he got one?	16:31
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: now https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 should work for you... To get either nice "internal error" OR...	16:31
Termana	MohammadAG, not yet. He got his launchpad account	16:32
CaCO3	do i understand it right that meego only will use pyside instead pyqt?	16:32
javispedro	MohammadAG: I got an email about LP (blabla vast number of applications - I think this is because of the spam I sent ;) ) , but I cannot yet enter LP with my account :S	16:32
javispedro	maybe I should logout -> login	16:33
Termana	javispedro, try that	16:33
fiferboy_	logout/login worked for me	16:33
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: indeed	16:33
MohammadAG	where does once access their launchpad account?	16:33
javispedro	no deal :(	16:33
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: lower left "develper prog"	16:33
* divan got approved on launchpad program just now.		16:33
Termana	MohammadAG, https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/	16:33
MohammadAG	I wish they'd add a N950 instantly	16:33
Termana	javispedro, just give it 5 minutes then	16:34
javispedro	oh	16:34
javispedro	it is listed in My programs	16:34
divan	in My Programs on http://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml page there is 'Launchpad for individuals' appeared.	16:34
MohammadAG	You do not have the required access rights to the page you were trying to access. Please see our Developer Programs pages for further details about our offering.	16:34
javispedro	same as MohammadAG.	16:34
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: log out ALL browser tabs	16:34
MohammadAG	but it's in my programs	16:34
* jonwil wishes mce wasnt so damn complex :(		16:34
divan	And in https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP?sfdc.tabName=01r20000000L8iX I see the tab 'Device distribution'	16:34
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Termana	SPLIT	16:34
* javispedro was going to try OBS, so I can wait		16:35
MohammadAG	I just want it shipped before the weekend :(	16:35
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, got a DHL number?	16:35
DocScrutinizer	yup	16:35
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: MWAHAHAHA, but if they're doing it in reverse arrival order, and I'm approved already, your approval is soon. Start warming your stereo...	16:35
fiferboy_	GeneralAntilles: Too bad the approval doesn't trigger your setup	16:36
pauly	n950!!!!	16:36
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pauly	omg thats so cool	16:36
CaCO3	did any of you already start to port your maemo apps to meego?	16:36
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pauly	patrick dempsy used one also	16:36
javispedro	fiferboy_: but the N950 is here mail will	16:36
javispedro	fiferboy_: even if you ignore LP status	16:37
javispedro	jonwil: center on the plugins!	16:37
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DocScrutinizer	actually you don't need either of those mails	16:37
jonwil	Even the plugins are damn complex	16:37
jonwil	like the display driver one	16:37
fiferboy_	javispedro: Yes, unless it goes to spam	16:38
jonwil	i.e. libdisplay.so	16:38
DocScrutinizer	but keep the URL of your order confirmation webpage - only way to access it later!	16:38
javispedro	jonwil: btw, I remember that MohammadAG found that vibra has a special d-bus api for manually triggering the vibrator (so that mce does not reset it), so I'm no longer interested in vibra :P	16:38
javispedro	well, not THAT interested.	16:38
alterego	Well, if I hopefully get launchpad tomorrow, then maybe I am still in with a chance to get t he N950 this weekend ..	16:38
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jonwil	well I intend to reverse engineer what the vibrator plugin does	16:38
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: what does libdisplay.so?	16:39
jonwil	libdisplay.so handles display brightness	16:39
javispedro	jonwil: you know the fremantle plugin<->mce api?	16:39
rm_work	jonwil: figured that out yet?	16:39
rm_work	:P	16:39
jonwil	and yes I do	16:39
alterego	But that's probably wishful thinking ..	16:39
fiferboy_	DocScrutinizer: Can you tell where the device ships from?	16:39
DocScrutinizer	epoo	16:39
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fiferboy_	The real deal	16:40
javispedro	alterego: my past experience tells me that if you are in europe, thursday 12:00 should be latest if you want the device on friday.	16:40
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rm_work	jonwil: i don't need a complete reverse engineer of libdisplay.so i just need to know: when the display brightness is changed, where does it create a socket to, and what data does it send	16:40
DocScrutinizer	err not really	16:40
rm_work	jonwil: i can easily figure it out once i get a device i think	16:40
DocScrutinizer	HEL	16:40
alterego	javispedro: Saturday is fine with me actually.	16:40
alterego	So I don't mind :)	16:40
javispedro	ah well, there are some countries out there were people work on saturdays I bet ;)	16:41
Termana	alterego, HA. Courier no deliver on weekend silly boy.	16:41
jonwil	well I already reverse engineered it and will finish cloning it	16:41
rm_work	jonwil: ah, cool	16:41
MohammadAG	https://gitorious.org/qtbook/qtbook/blobs/master/systemnotification.cpp#line45	16:41
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MohammadAG	javispedro, ^	16:41
rm_work	jonwil: :) send me what you have for that as soon as you're done	16:41
alterego	Termana: they do for me.	16:41
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javispedro	MohammadAG: was talking about fremantle vibra	16:41
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: what does libdisplay.so?	16:41
alterego	I've had plenty of DHL deliveries on Saturdays ..	16:41
javispedro	MohammadAG: but maybe I'm confused	16:41
rm_work	<DocScrutinizer> jonwil: what does libdisplay.so?	16:41
rm_work	<jonwil> libdisplay.so handles display brightness	16:41
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DocScrutinizer	ooh	16:42
MohammadAG	javispedro, line 61	16:42
Termana	alterego, I've been reading some experiences with DHL Australia. Apparently they get to to Australia quick and then it sits around for a couple of weeks here in Australia before they wonder wtf they are doing	16:42
javispedro	MohammadAG: yes, that's the one =)	16:42
DocScrutinizer	thnx	16:42
javispedro	MohammadAG: I used it in preenv since you found it.	16:42
alterego	Termana: good job I'm not in Australia then :P	16:42
MohammadAG	:D	16:42
alterego	Bloody lazy Aussies :P	16:42
Termana	heh :p	16:42
MohammadAG	does QFeedbackHapticEffect work on Maemo 5?	16:43
jaska	http://dudelol.com/img/microsoft-skype-skynet.png	16:43
javispedro	te what	16:43
hiemanshu	nothing yet :(	16:43
Termana	hiemanshu, wb	16:44
javispedro	MohammadAG: via MCE vibra does not support any effect other than constant	16:44
hiemanshu	hey Termana	16:44
MohammadAG	javispedro, that's Qt Mobility :P	16:44
jonwil	well I intend to finish cloning the display plugin then I will post its code	16:44
jonwil	After that, I will reverse engineer some other things	16:45
jonwil	like the vibrator plugin	16:45
javispedro	MohammadAG: yes, but is it based on mce? or they bypass it in some secret way?	16:45
jonwil	I suspect it comes through mce	16:45
javispedro	on normal linux (&webos) vibra is an input ff device	16:45
javispedro	but changing that on maemo of course breaks mce..	16:46
javispedro	heh, yet more reason for a vibra mce plugin clone ;)	16:46
pauly	anyone wanna trade their n8 for my n900	16:46
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: MCE doesn't support other than constant vib??	16:46
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: note though that your definition of constant is potentially more simple than mine's	16:47
DocScrutinizer	yeah, probably	16:47
javispedro	my definition includes a "intensity" or similar which is of course implemented with a pwm, so by your definition probably not constant ;)	16:47
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so nothing for me today, maybe tomorrow? :P	16:48
DocScrutinizer	constant patterns of any shape and number	16:48
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: see mce.ini	16:48
jonwil	I can confirm that the vibra plugin writes to /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_vibra/pulse	16:49
javispedro	yeah	16:49
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: /[VibraPatternRX51]	16:49
GeneralAntilles	Woo, LaunchPad.	16:49
GeneralAntilles	So looks like alterego likely has it.	16:49
javispedro	jonwil: but if you write to it, at the next screen touch or ~something seconds, vibra plugin resets.	16:49
GeneralAntilles	"With his Wednesday prediction"	16:50
alterego	GeneralAntilles: :)	16:50
alterego	GeneralAntilles: everyone except me ..	16:50
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yes	16:50
GeneralAntilles	What's the hardware page link?	16:50
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: MCE is missing a "keep your sticky fingers off $subsystem!" command	16:50
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: can't look at the file atm, n900 does not respond to ssh for some reason and I can't be arsed to move ;)	16:50
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alterego	"Nokia Developer Member since 2001" Wow!	16:51
jonwil	it also reads dbus messages for req_vibrator_pattern_activate req_vibrator_pattern_deactivate req_vibrator_enable req_vibrator_disable req_start_manual_vibration req_stop_manual_vibration	16:51
MohammadAG	~n950order is https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950	16:51
infobot	MohammadAG: okay	16:51
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: but that's where the dbus call that MohammadAG found comes into play: it allows you set a given intensity for a given time, and mce won't do anything for that time.	16:51
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: http://paste.debian.net/122094/	16:51
javispedro	you still do not have raw access, but anything is better than nothing.	16:51
DocScrutinizer	~botsnak	16:52
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	16:52
infobot	:), DocScrutinizer	16:52
* cpscotti "Launchpad for individuals (06-Jul-2011–06-Jul-2012)", voilá!		16:52
DocScrutinizer	~feed MohammadAG coffee	16:52
* infobot gives MohammadAG coffee on a paper plate and seats MohammadAG on the park bench.		16:52
* javispedro clears cookies and cache and retries LP..		16:53
alterego	cpscotti: not you too!	16:53
alterego	WAAAAAH!	16:53
divan	Hmm.. Devices list in 'Device Distribution' page is empty. Is it ok? Device order should appear in some time, right?	16:54
Termana	DocScrutinizer, coffee on a paper plate	16:54
Termana	lol	16:54
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: if mce actually does nothing, then maybe you get raw access during that timespan	16:54
cpscotti	hehe	16:54
cpscotti	lol	16:54
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hiemanshu	alterego: you haven't got it yet?	16:54
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: nah, I think it will try to keep resetting to the intensity you specified in call	16:54
alterego	Nope	16:54
javispedro	but never tried tbh	16:54
alterego	Looks like I'm the last now :P	16:55
Termana	divan, that's how it's suppose to be until you get the email	16:55
DocScrutinizer	I doubt that	16:55
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: hey yeah, launchpad on mine too :P though still no device listed	16:55
divan	Termana, thanks.	16:55
javispedro	(not really have any game that does anything other than constant effects!)	16:55
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: can you decode that foo to a standard dbus-send call?	16:55
* divan stopped worrying.		16:55
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* javispedro lols		16:56
javispedro	we already had this conversation =)	16:56
DocScrutinizer	divan: see	16:56
javispedro	http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-02.log.html#t2011-03-02T02:30:17	16:56
DocScrutinizer	~n950order	16:56
infobot	well, n950order is https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950	16:56
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, eww, I hate coffee	16:56
DocScrutinizer	ooh sorry	16:56
MohammadAG	ice coffee is different but normal coffee is eugh	16:56
alterego	I bet there's a cock up with my application	16:56
cpscotti	no devices shown though... probably they're doing it as we type.. haha lol	16:56
javispedro	virtually 4 months ago heh	16:56
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I would love some coffee though	16:57
divan	DocScrutinizer, this links gives me an error "Unexpected error has occured. Please try again."	16:57
* hiemanshu got drenched in the rain		16:57
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MohammadAG	alterego, watch your language	16:57
MohammadAG	this channel is G rated	16:57
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alterego	G for gonads?	16:57
alterego	groin?	16:57
alterego	Groping?	16:57
cpscotti	g+	16:57
javispedro	yes, now I can get into lp	16:57
hiemanshu	G for Granny	16:57
javispedro	Free Microsoft App Hub registration	16:57
javispedro	!	16:57
MohammadAG	time to /mkick then	16:58
Termana	javispedro, that is the evil part	16:58
rm_work	lol @ RDA image: https://www.developer.nokia.com/pics/rda_structure_3.jpg	16:58
alterego	javispedro: woo!	16:58
rm_work	it's an N900 and an N9	16:58
javispedro	rm_work: N8	16:58
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rm_work	ah	16:58
javispedro	well	16:58
rm_work	well, does RDA even work with N900?	16:58
hiemanshu	javispedro: for one year	16:58
alterego	rm_work: yes	16:58
alterego	At least it used too ..	16:58
rm_work	interesting, never knew that	16:58
rm_work	would have been useful maybe	16:59
Termana	RDA is useLESS	16:59
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: alas this call does nuttin here	16:59
rm_work	lol	16:59
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you still on PR1.2?	16:59
hiemanshu	Termana: not really	16:59
DocScrutinizer	nah!	16:59
fiferboy	This whole process seems to be just refreshing a new page in every step	16:59
Termana	hiemanshu, It didn't work good at all. The concept is nice, but the implementation is crap IMO	17:00
MohammadAG	<javispedro> rm_work: N8	17:00
MohammadAG	E7 actually	17:00
hiemanshu	Termana: worked perfect for me	17:00
hiemanshu	fiferboy: not really, the last step is 'Sleep/Sit outside your house and jump infront of every DHL van'	17:00
Termana	hiemanshu, I had major delays, couldn't open apps, swiping was just as bad etc.	17:00
GAN900	Termana, it's because they're running 4 vms per device.	17:00
fiferboy	hiemanshu: I thought it would be 'Refresh the tracking page to see if there has been any change' :{	17:01
hiemanshu	GAN900: launchpad yet?	17:01
javispedro	hiemanshu: the last step is very described by today's xkcd ;) http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/delivery_notification.png	17:01
DocScrutinizer	divan: that's exactly what that link gives until your N950 shows up instead	17:01
fiferboy	javispedro: Yes, very appropriate timing	17:01
GAN900	hiemanshu, just within the last 10 minutes.	17:01
hiemanshu	javispedro: done :P I wrote an app just to do that	17:01
Termana	Who thinks the xkcd guy is getting an N950? :p	17:01
DocScrutinizer	~coffee hiemanshu	17:01
* infobot steals some of Guest39395's special coffee and gives it to hiemanshu on a silver platter.		17:01
fiferboy	Termana: No, I think he is getting a sword	17:01
hiemanshu	GAN900: so accepted?	17:02
divan	DocScrutinizer, ok, thanks.	17:02
Corsac	the first package is a laptop	17:02
GAN900	No N950 yet, though.	17:02
v13	were the n950s posted ?	17:03
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: the funny part about that dbus call is it succeeds	17:04
alterego	GAN900: what time did your email arrive saying you've got launchpad?	17:04
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: do not have my n900 around to test but I am quite confident it should work	17:04
fiferboy	alterego: No emails for Launchpad acceptance	17:04
hiemanshu	alterego: there will no email	17:04
hiemanshu	+be	17:05
alterego	Oh	17:05
hiemanshu	alterego: you'll have to check your developer page and see it listed	17:05
alterego	So I just have to keep logging out and back in to developer.nokia.com until something appears?	17:05
hiemanshu	yeah	17:05
fiferboy	alterego: That is why GAN's disco lights didn't go off	17:05
alterego	Or wait for the "N950 ready for you" email I guess,	17:05
hiemanshu	well, you dont ahve to log out	17:05
alterego	Oh	17:05
hiemanshu	alterego: just wait for the email	17:06
hiemanshu	because launchpad is nothing extra except microsoft app hub :P	17:06
rm_work	javispedro: lol yeah that happens to me ALL THE TIME. and i've tried to do that several times, too... though got lost trying to find their random sorting office in the middle of nowhere, or else it was closed anyway	17:06
DocScrutinizer	javispedro:	17:06
DocScrutinizer	IroN900:~# dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500	17:06
DocScrutinizer	method return sender=:1.13 -> dest=:1.2388 reply_serial=2	17:06
rm_work	though i called and they said they actually could give it to me	17:07
DocScrutinizer	nuttin	17:07
v13	For me, in d.n.c -> settings -> developer account -> my programs, it says "Launchpad for individuals (06-Jul-2011–06-Jul-2012)"	17:07
javispedro	i have a dhl office at 3 minute walking distance, so going to it is very tempting ;)	17:07
DocScrutinizer	IroN900:~# mce --version	17:08
DocScrutinizer	mce v1.8.126	17:08
DocScrutinizer	IroN900:~# uname -a	17:08
DocScrutinizer	Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown	17:08
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: and the vib works, evidently	17:08
DocScrutinizer	just not with this dbus call	17:08
alterego	javispedro: heh, and what? Waiting outside and checking every van?	17:08
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, works for me	17:09
v13	Q: Is it possible to install CSSU in scratchbox ?	17:10
DocScrutinizer	the exact line I pasted above?	17:10
DocScrutinizer	oooh wait, under 29999?	17:10
DocScrutinizer	nah, system bus	17:10
MohammadAG	dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500	17:10
alterego	Well, it's after working hours in Finland now I guess, so maybe I'll get lucky tomorrow :(	17:10
javispedro	alterego: encamping right there and refusing to leave until they hand me MY DEVICE!!	17:10
MohammadAG	works fine for me	17:10
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: xkcd.com	17:11
alterego	javispedro: rather than sitting at home on a nice comfy sofa waiting for them to deliver it to you? :P	17:11
* javispedro wishes he could sit at a comfy sofa, when the courier comes in I will be at uni office.		17:11
Appiah	3hours without my n900 and I got ... (the only?`) a android phone that does not have exchange support, so I have to buy (or run limited trials) to get my mail and calender	17:12
Appiah	I miss it already	17:12
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merlin1991	v13: not unless you build the packages yourself	17:12
merlin1991	the cssu repo only hase armel packages	17:12
v13	arg... thnks :)	17:12
merlin1991	s/hase/has/	17:12
infobot	merlin1991 meant: the cssu repo only has armel packages	17:12
MohammadAG	javispedro, I can pick it up for you	17:13
alterego	Well, guess that means I'm not getting any new tech this week :(	17:13
alterego	Not even the N8 has been dispatched yet.	17:13
hiemanshu	alterego: you ordered an N8?	17:13
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: javispedro: fails for me. Now what?	17:14
alterego	hiemanshu: I'm being sent one to port some apps to	17:14
hiemanshu	alterego: damn you	17:14
Appiah	Is there any information regarding this N8 replacement for n900 ?	17:14
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: now you wait for jonwil to decipher mce's mysteries.	17:14
javispedro	;P	17:14
DocScrutinizer	haha	17:14
alterego	Appiah: if you send off your N900 for warranty repairs, there's a good chance you'll get an N8 back ..	17:14
DocScrutinizer	I wonder if I should send a pattern_deactivate for my xchat click	17:15
alterego	courtesy "upgrade" ..	17:15
Appiah	but there is like no official annoucment regarding this shit?	17:15
DocScrutinizer	always thought patterns time out and good	17:15
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alterego	Appiah: why would there be?	17:16
alterego	Appiah: it's announced in their Warranty T&C documentation	17:16
DocScrutinizer	NOPE	17:17
DocScrutinizer	refuses to work for me	17:17
v13	DocScrutinizer: what problem to you have ?	17:17
DocScrutinizer	dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500	17:18
DocScrutinizer	does nothing here	17:18
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v13	nothing here too	17:18
v13	why should it do somethings ?	17:18
javispedro	hm?	17:18
v13	(is there any doc?)	17:18
DocScrutinizer	javispedro and MohammadAG claim it works for them	17:18
javispedro	and jflatt.	17:18
v13	nothing. both as root & as user	17:19
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: do you have ts-click enabled?	17:19
javispedro	yes	17:19
MohammadAG	I don't	17:19
divan	is there any trusted info on the total count of N950 manufactured?	17:19
DocScrutinizer	:-S	17:19
MohammadAG	and it works for sociality users	17:19
DocScrutinizer	ther must be some reason why it doesn't work here	17:20
Termana	divan, over 9000!	17:20
v13	DocScrutinizer: what are you really trying to do? :-)	17:20
* javispedro ponders where the hell I can find an obs client for gentoo..		17:20
divan	Termana, how do you know?	17:20
v13	docs: it doesn't work for me either	17:20
DocScrutinizer	v13: find out about that vib dbus cmd	17:20
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Termana	I don't - it was a joke	17:20
X-Fade	javispedro: Get the git repo and compile it?	17:20
v13	isn't mce only able to play pre-defined vibs ?	17:20
javispedro	oooooooooooh	17:21
DocScrutinizer	allegedly not	17:21
javispedro	it's not "obs client" but "osc client"	17:21
javispedro	X-Fade: what does OSC mean?	17:21
X-Fade	javispedro: openbuild service client :)	17:21
Sicelo	just a quick question: my repositories should just say fremantle or fremantle-1.3?	17:21
javispedro	X-Fade: makes sense :) ta!	17:22
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: MohammadAG: what's your mce and kernel version?	17:22
divan	Termana, thanks, now I know new mem 'Over 9000' :)	17:22
DocScrutinizer	same as mine above?	17:22
MohammadAG	Report bugs to <david.weinehall@nokia.com>	17:23
MohammadAG	Segmentation fault	17:23
MohammadAG	:LMFAO	17:23
DocScrutinizer	yo	17:23
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DocScrutinizer	same here	17:23
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:~# mce --version	17:23
MohammadAG	mce v1.8.126	17:23
MohammadAG	Written by David Weinehall.	17:23
MohammadAG	Copyright (C) 2004-2009 Nokia Corporation. All rights reserved.	17:23
MohammadAG	Segmentation fault	17:23
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v13	# mce --version	17:23
v13	mce v1.8.126	17:23
DocScrutinizer	all the same	17:24
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:~# dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500	17:24
MohammadAG	method return sender=:1.12 -> dest=:1.225 reply_serial=2	17:24
DocScrutinizer	exactly	17:25
pauly	making a tmo account :) just to get rid of my n900	17:25
v13	stupid q: do you all have the device connected with usb ?	17:26
v13	(regarding the vib)	17:26
DocScrutinizer	well, method return sender=:1.13 -> dest=:1.2421 reply_serial=2	17:26
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MohammadAG	with or without a USB, it works	17:26
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DocScrutinizer	no USB here	17:27
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merlin1991	pauly: want to sell yours?	17:27
MohammadAG	try restarting mce	17:27
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DocScrutinizer	k	17:28
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DocScrutinizer	same	17:28
hiemanshu	so its 5.30 there, and probably time for them to leave in .fi, nothing today	17:30
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* hiemanshu shoots DocScrutinizer and everyone who got an email today		17:30
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javispedro	no programs!	17:30
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javispedro	oh, yes programs ;P	17:31
hiemanshu	javispedro: did you get anything yet?	17:31
javispedro	can access LP, but no N950.	17:31
pauly	merlin1991: im looking to trade for n8 or sell	17:31
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hiemanshu	javispedro: ah	17:32
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MohammadAG	fry the bootloader	17:32
merlin1991	depending how much you want for it and from where you would ship it I might be interested	17:32
MohammadAG	send to Nokia service	17:32
MohammadAG	profit	17:32
merlin1991	lol	17:32
merlin1991	MohammadAG: you forgot the ????? line to fit the scheme	17:33
MohammadAG	what? after all they are replacing N900s for N8s	17:33
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v13	afair, vibra was programmable too. do you remember to sys location for its programming ?	17:33
lardman	hmm, F5 still not producing the desired results	17:33
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hiemanshu	lardman: change the key, KTHXBYE :P	17:34
pauly	merlin1991: 300 usd	17:34
pauly	usa md	17:34
lardman	well it refreshes the page, just doesn't give me what I want	17:34
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* gri also has an empty list :(		17:35
hiemanshu	lardman: well, its end of the end at .fi, so nothing today sadly	17:35
lardman	:(	17:35
lardman	ah well, at least some are trickling out slowly	17:35
merlin1991	pauly: usa is lil bad on shipping to austria :P	17:35
hiemanshu	lardman: wait for tomorrow, also we might be the top at the list	17:35
lardman	I wonder if there's a link between Launchpad date and device order	17:36
pauly	uh oh lol	17:36
pauly	merlin1991: do u want it?	17:36
lardman	hmm, perhaps not, only Docscrutinizer of the normal route people	17:36
gri	lardman: "I have now activated your membership. Next the meego team will grant you access to N950 after which you can order the device.	17:36
gri	You will get an email notification about it. "	17:36
merlin1991	any idea what the shipping would come to?	17:36
gri	so no link?	17:36
alterego	merlin1991: it's free	17:37
hiemanshu	alterego: lol, learn to read :P	17:37
lardman	gri: who was that email from?	17:37
lardman	I didn't get one of those, but my Launchpad was activated yesterday	17:37
merlin1991	alterego: I'd like to see the person who sells something in the usa and ships it for free to europe, suuure :D	17:37
javispedro	lardman: what?? :(	17:38
gri	lardman: Nora, Developer Experience and Marketplace, Device Access Services	17:38
javispedro	so we can expect a two-day delay since LP activation to device =)	17:38
hiemanshu	javispedro: mine was activated yesterday, so I'll see the device tomorrow	17:39
hiemanshu	hoping for it :P	17:39
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javispedro	yes, keep the optimism.	17:39
gri	lardman: But I got contacted to change settings before activation .. thats why you might not get the mail as you had not to change anything	17:39
lardman	ah ok	17:39
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lardman	javispedro: Judging by Doc's experience it might be 4 months ;)	17:39
javispedro	well, judging from my experience in LP, application -> approval took 6 months.	17:40
lardman	Ah, well I feel special at only 1 day then	17:40
v13	javispedro: Mine seems to have been activated today. no mail.	17:40
lardman	or perhaps 2, can't remember exactly	17:40
alterego	Oh I thought we were stll talking about the devkit DDP	17:41
v13	javispedro: Judging from the 6-Jul-2011 - 6-Jul-2012 dates	17:41
lardman	Docscrutinizer: ping	17:41
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lardman	alterego: we are sort of, but moved off topic to Launchpad approvals I think	17:42
* alterego yawns		17:42
hiemanshu	lardman: learn to read	17:42
hiemanshu	dammit, why doesn't anyone read backlogs :P	17:42
lardman	hiemanshu: too long	17:43
v13	tl;dr	17:43
v13	:P	17:43
* lardman has no clue what that means		17:43
hiemanshu	lardman: too long; didn't read	17:43
lardman	ah, thanks	17:43
pauly	merlin1991: btw this n900 can overclock to 1100 mhz	17:44
hiemanshu	pauly: thats a nice way to kill your phone	17:44
merlin1991	hiemanshu: nod	17:44
v13	lardman: http://tinyurl.com/c8lrbb :P	17:44
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pauly	only did it to try it, i dont like power kernel	17:44
DocScrutinizer	lardman: pong	17:45
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pauly	panorama doesnt work with .ower kernel	17:45
lardman	hey DocScrutinizer, saw your project idea about location stuff - the cinema was the one you mentioned	17:45
lardman	You could use Proximus for that	17:45
lardman	as the backend	17:45
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lardman	location aware event triggers	17:46
* alterego gets bored		17:47
alterego	Think I'm gonna play around with some QML	17:47
lardman	anyway I'm interested in the response that gri got, that it's the Meego team who now somehow enable each Launchpad account to get a device	17:47
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fiferboy	alterego: I'm finally playing around with QML	17:48
lardman	or perhaps this has already been mentioned	17:48
fiferboy	alterego: Do you find anchor layouts WAY easier to deal with than grid/column/row?	17:48
alterego	fiferboy: yes	17:48
hiemanshu	alterego: watch BBT if you haven't watched, and if you have, rewatch it :P	17:49
alterego	What's BBT?	17:49
hiemanshu	alterego: Big Bang Theory?	17:49
alterego	Oh, right	17:49
v13	tbbt	17:49
fiferboy	I'm finally making progress with my layout, now that I switched to anchors in the edit view	17:49
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: I need to push some more code to svn, some time event gubbins, am working on location stuff this evening	17:51
hiemanshu	lol svn	17:51
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lardman	svn is presumably funny?	17:53
hiemanshu	no, just sad	17:53
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lardman	I'll send it flowers	17:53
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merlin1991	lol, the meego harmattan debian policy manual defines and option that is called Maemo-Flags :D	17:54
hiemanshu	while you are at it, please fix it?	17:54
lardman	hiemanshu: what's the problem?	17:54
hiemanshu	everything?	17:54
lardman	works for me	17:55
hiemanshu	probably only for you :P	17:55
lardman	~lart Dell for only offering 6Gb of RAM	17:56
* infobot beats Dell severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken for only offering 6Gb of RAM		17:56
* hiemanshu quits trolling and goes to do something useful		17:56
jaska	6GB? well, if its a subnotebook or netbook	17:57
X-Fade	lardman: buy 8GB extra for 40GBP?	17:57
lardman	Nah, full laptop with 64bit Win7 as standard	17:57
X-Fade	lardman: It is cheap online.	17:57
lardman	sure, just trying to save hassle	17:57
X-Fade	lardman: And pay 600% more :)	17:57
lardman	I also need an nVidia graphics card, which may be troublesome	17:58
lardman	X-Fade: well if they give the option of 8Gb it's probably not so much more expensive than diy	17:58
X-Fade	lardman: It is.	17:58
X-Fade	lardman: I was looking for a XPS 15.	17:58
X-Fade	lardman: Insane upgrade prices.	17:58
lardman	really? Oh, ok, I guess I'm looking at the same device	17:59
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lardman	anyway seems to only offer ATi, so no-go	17:59
X-Fade	lardman: XPS has nvidia.	17:59
lardman	Actually this is a Vostro Notebook	17:59
* lardman goes back to the start to see why Dell is trying to sell him this one then		17:59
DocScrutinizer	lardman: sounds interesting, I'll chat about it later with you. Have to run now	18:00
lardman	DocScrutinizer: no internet at home, chat to Jaffa or I will catch you tomorrow	18:00
DocScrutinizer	np	18:00
holmesII	Doc, morning. I am trying to use VMWARE first	18:00
hiemanshu	lardman: never order a dell online, you'll get much much better prices via phone	18:00
DocScrutinizer	leave me a few links to catch up what's going on, please	18:00
holmesII	i'm afraid to destroy my linux system.	18:00
lardman	I need to spec it and pass it to work to get a discount	18:01
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hiemanshu	lardman: I for one got a free bag and 10% off on the online price	18:01
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: sure, https://wiki.maemo.org/Proximus and https://garage.maemo.org/projects/proximus/ though not much code in the repo yet as my netbook didn't want to connect to the work WLAN yesterday	18:01
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pauly	i so thought someone would want a n900 or even two cause i have one with broken screen broken usb	18:02
MySpaez	how much	18:03
MySpaez	also exactly how is usb broken	18:04
lardman	What screen res do people think for a 15.6" screen? 1920x1080 seems awfully high	18:04
X-Fade	lardman: Full HD or higher.	18:04
ieatlint	lardman: i have a laptop like that	18:04
ieatlint	love it	18:04
jaska	1920x1200 :)	18:04
lardman	writing must be minute on the screen	18:04
X-Fade	lardman: mine is 1920x1200 now.	18:04
ieatlint	i need good screen res to dev	18:04
alterego	lardman: I've got a 15.3 at 1680x1200	18:04
hiemanshu	lardman: 1600x900 at the minimum	18:05
DocScrutinizer	lardman: check dwimd	18:05
alterego	wait, mine is the same as X-Fades :)	18:05
* GeneralAntilles twiddles thumbs.		18:05
alterego	1920x1200 on 15.3	18:05
DocScrutinizer	lardman: orphaned but good basis I think	18:05
lardman	right, high res it is by popular vote	18:05
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ieatlint	which laptop?	18:05
X-Fade	Yeah, you can always increase font size. It just looks a lot better. (You should know that by now) :)	18:05
ieatlint	one i have like that is a lenovo/thinkpad w510	18:06
lardman	X-Fade: I'm dev'ing on a Samsung n140 atm	18:06
lardman	so anything higher resolution will be better	18:06
GeneralAntilles	lardman, IPS if you can find.	18:07
GeneralAntilles	Will help a lot.	18:07
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hiemanshu	I have a 1600 x 900 at 14"	18:07
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pauly	MySpaez: well usb isnt on it and lcd cracked other n900 is good condition looking to trade for n8 or nice cash offer	18:08
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GeneralAntilles	Hrm, says I'm a LaunchPad member, but I can't get into the LaunchPad page.	18:09
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: log out and back in	18:09
GeneralAntilles	Broken SSO	18:09
GeneralAntilles	Gotta love it.	18:09
pauly	all i use the phone for is pics twitter and craigslist so why not have 12mp camera	18:09
GeneralAntilles	Maemo's better.	18:10
hiemanshu	pauly: then take a feature phone + camera :P	18:10
lardman	bargain, 1181 excluding vat	18:10
lardman	£	18:10
pauly	cameras re expensive and im not a pro	18:10
X-Fade	lardman: So then you'll get it at around 900.	18:10
pauly	plus i can directly upload my pics on a phone	18:10
Scifig	GeneralAntilles: Same here. I logged out and logged in multiple times. Is there any URL for launchpad other than that "Join Launchpad' link?	18:11
DocScrutinizer	lardman: I'm adding my 'comments' to https://wiki.maemo.org/Proximus	18:11
GeneralAntilles	https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/	18:12
DocScrutinizer	lardman: afk, ttyl o/	18:12
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lardman	thanks Doc	18:15
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Scifig	GeneralAntilles: Thanks. It simply confirms I have launchpad memship. Now, I should just go back to waiting for the email i guess.	18:16
lardman	shame it doesn't give you an expected battery life as you add different processor and graphics card :)	18:16
GeneralAntilles	lardman, pfff	18:17
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gri	my notebook claims to have 11h battery life when fully loaded and the screen is at its darkest setting :)	18:17
alterego	lardman: heh	18:17
lardman	my netbook does actually manage about 7 hours	18:17
kamui	anyone have a google+ invite to give out	18:17
kamui	?	18:17
lardman	can't see this quad core monster managing that somehow	18:18
kamui	Im finally biting the bullet and I want in	18:18
gri	lardman: i5 sandy bridge here, also uses the power good	18:18
GeneralAntilles	lardman, well, CPU throttling is way better than it used to be.	18:18
lardman	yep	18:18
lardman	To get the nVidia card I have to go with i7, I guess that should be ok	18:18
gri	which nvidia card?	18:19
lardman	NVS 4200M	18:19
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lardman	http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvs_techspecs.html	18:19
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gri	that's a separate one (no nvidia optimus)?	18:20
lardman	no idea	18:20
divan	kamui, pm me your gmail	18:20
Scifig	kamui: I got invited to Google+ but google says "We've temporarily exceeded our capacity. Please try again soon". And I am not in a hurry to join another social network that forces my profile to be public.	18:20
lardman	that card is compute capability 2.1 though, which is good	18:20
divan	Scifig, they turn it on and off, so keep trying	18:20
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lardman	gri: can;'t see optimus on the CUDA support page	18:21
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gri	hmm, the specs of the nvs 4200m look a lot different to the one I have	18:22
lardman	you have that card do you?	18:22
gri	no	18:23
gri	I have this one: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gt-540m-us.html	18:23
GeneralAntilles	gri, yeah, 'cause it's a workstation card. :P	18:24
lardman	ah that has compute capability 2.1 too	18:24
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GeneralAntilles	Because lardman is all /academic/ and whatnot.	18:24
gri	GeneralAntilles: I thought M means mobile/notebook?	18:25
hiemanshu	gri: yeah, but workstation cards are differnet	18:25
hiemanshu	different*	18:25
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jonwil	can anyone tell me which display the N900 uses? An analysis of the mce display plugin suggests that its either a Sony acx565akm or an EID acx565akm	18:25
gri	lardman: Mine doesn't work good under linux thanks to optimus	18:25
lardman	yours has more cores	18:25
jonwil	anyone know which of the 2 it is?	18:25
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jonwil	Also anyone heard of CABC?	18:25
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hiemanshu	gri: tried bumblebee?	18:26
GeneralAntilles	jonwil, was a Sony when it was first being prototyped.	18:26
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gri	hiemanshu: Once, but had other problems. Ubuntu < 11.04 doesn't even support the i5's intel graphics adapter	18:26
* GeneralAntilles hits Cmd-R a few more times.		18:27
ShadowJK	jonwil, cabac?	18:27
jonwil	no, its spelt CABC	18:27
lardman	gri: doesn't sound promising	18:27
hiemanshu	gri: you need the latest drivers, try fedora 15	18:27
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hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: and?	18:28
GeneralAntilles	Nothing	18:28
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gri	hiemanshu: I will use my vmware workstation a little bit more, tried all latest linux distributions with the new laptop and mostly it resulted in: Either no graphics acceleration, no sound, low battery life ...	18:29
jonwil	ok, looks like my N900 has the acx565akm	18:29
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DocScrutinizer	Content Adabtive Backlight Control	18:29
DocScrutinizer	s/ab/ap/	18:29
lardman	I thought you wrote ablative there for a minute :)	18:29
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: Content Adaptive Backlight Control	18:29
hiemanshu	dammit, my N900 wont turn on, the battery died, plugged in wall charger, get the blinking orange light, go to the loading screen with circles, and shuts down :(	18:29
v13	get a new battery :)	18:30
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hiemanshu	v13: battery died = low battery :P	18:30
gri	hiemanshu: How long did it load? Mine also had this once and refused to boot for a few hours ... and suddenly worked again	18:30
v13	oh.	18:30
hiemanshu	gri: charged for about 45 mins	18:30
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cpscotti	Debugging Bluetooth discovery: get to know the names of all mac book owners in a 5km radius	18:32
gri	I think mine loaded longer than 45 minus before it wanted to boot again	18:32
jonwil	I recon someone should make an initrd and kernel that can be loaded with -l that is specifically for charging the battery somehow and would be designed to use as little juice as possible when doing so to ensure that it could function as long as there is even a tiny bit of juice in the battery.	18:33
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tapas_	nick titapas	18:33
tapas_	oops	18:34
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tapas2	hi i'm sitting here at a friend of mine who got himself a nokia n800 with maemo.. i wonder how to access the root filesystem..	18:34
tapas2	sadly this friend only has a windows pc besides the nokia device, so all my linux skills are quite unusable at the moment	18:35
v13	tapas: there is an x-term app in n800	18:35
tapas2	v13: ah ok.. i didn't find it though	18:35
tapas2	v13: i guess i have to manually install it.. and vim :)	18:36
tapas2	though that might be a chore to use with the on screen keyboard..	18:36
v13	IIRC it is already installed	18:36
alterego	The harmattan pdf viewer looks neat	18:36
jonwil	yep, definatly looks like I have a sony acx565akm touchscreen in my phone	18:36
tapas2	v13: hmm, ok.. i searched the menus though.. must be a sneaky terminal	18:36
tapas2	:D	18:36
v13	tapas: i belive it is in utilities	18:37
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tapas2	if that fails: is there a way to mount the root filesystem from windows? it seems there was a visible partition on the device but it didn't look like the root fs	18:37
v13	tapas: have a look at this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6218	18:37
tapas2	found the terminal.. great..	18:38
v13	I believe no. unless you setup ssh and you access it over sshfs	18:38
v13	unless of course you're using an SD card as the root partition.	18:38
lardman	gri: sprry to go off topic again, what laptop do you actually have?	18:39
tapas2	v13: ok.. let's see, if i can find the damn templates..	18:39
v13	templates ?	18:39
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: yes, allegedly it's sony. And re charging, that is exactly what maemo does on act_dead	18:41
jonwil	ok	18:41
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tapas2	v13: oh sorry, we're trying to get a software to run on that device... and we need to write a file for that..	18:41
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tapas2	v13: today's my lucky day.. i have a terminal and vi :)	18:41
v13	install an ssh server and ssh to it	18:41
tapas2	v13: is there a way to make the ordinary file manager show hidden files (dot files)?	18:42
tapas2	v13: will try ssh next...	18:42
v13	i don't remember. but there is at least one other file manager	18:42
GAN900	I'm going to get the email when I'm at the doctor's.	18:42
tapas2	ok	18:42
tapas2	going with vi for now :D	18:42
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flux	gan900, and the doctor is going to send you to a rehab clinic, given you are unable to let go of your mobile phone..	18:43
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gri	lardman: Acer Aspire TimelineX 5830TG	18:47
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lardman	cool, thanks	18:47
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gri	lardman: The only sad thing in my eyes on that thing is: just a 1366x768 resolution :(	18:48
lardman	I can't buy from Acer easily anyway	18:49
gri	would also have taken Dell if I had the money :)	18:49
* lardman has no clue about laptops really		18:49
GeneralAntilles	gri, 11.6-inch?	18:50
lardman	not been bothered for such a long time, need to re-immerse myself	18:50
lardman	15.6 I think from Google	18:50
gri	GeneralAntilles: Available in 13, 14 and 15,6 inch - all cost the same	18:50
GeneralAntilles	That resolution is unbearable for 15.6, and reasonable at 13.	18:50
alterego	GeneralAntilles: I had an idea you might be interested in :P	18:51
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jonwil	Acer laptops suck :P	18:51
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jonwil	Brands of laptop that do not suck:	18:51
jonwil	Toshiba	18:51
jonwil	Apple	18:51
jonwil	Asus	18:51
Scifig	jonwil: Agree about Asus	18:51
divan	jonwil, Sony Vaio? :)	18:51
lardman	Dell in the sucks pile then?	18:51
jonwil	Nope, Sony is crap	18:51
jonwil	Dell is crap	18:52
lardman	in what way?	18:52
jonwil	Lenovo are GREAT	18:52
GeneralAntilles	Lenovo's ThinkPads still seem OK.	18:52
gri	my eeepc fell on my foot some days ago - the eeepc is fine, my foot not :)	18:52
GeneralAntilles	IdeaPads not so much.	18:52
jonwil	Lenovo is great because they basically bought IBMs laptop division	18:52
nid0	Advent laptops are pretty nice if you're on a budget	18:52
jonwil	so all the good things about the IBM laptops are also good about the Lenovo modles	18:52
jonwil	models	18:52
Scifig	Lenovo X/T series are good though	18:52
divan	lenovo is great because of light for the keyboard	18:52
jonwil	HP and Compaq are also on the sucks pile	18:53
GeneralAntilles	Apple's backlit keyboards are better.	18:53
jonwil	heck, ANYTHING branded HP should be on the "sucks" pile :P	18:53
jonwil	well anything PC or computer related	18:53
jonwil	Their calculators still kick ass apparently	18:53
divan	GeneralAntilles, for sure. Actually I don't understand why backlighted keyboards aren't mainstream.	18:54
gri	my workstation at work is hp - and it really sucks	18:54
divan	Is it some patents issue or what?	18:54
divan	The Logitech Illuminated is the best keyboard I ever seen for PC.	18:54
Scifig	HP (uggh) had backlit keyboard	18:54
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lardman	I guess that normally there's enough light from the screen	18:54
nid0	<3 my illuminated logitech	18:54
divan	Scifig, which series?	18:54
GeneralAntilles	IBM Model M is the best keyboard for PC.	18:54
v13	lardman: who needs to look at the keyboard ? :)	18:55
GeneralAntilles	(Or the newly-manufactured Unicomps)	18:55
Scifig	Pavilion dv something used it until the graphics card + MB burned	18:55
lardman	v13: +1	18:55
nid0	i've been using backlit keyboards for my pc's for like a decade, theres so few of them tho	18:55
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jonwil	yeah the Model M is the ultimate keyboard	18:55
jonwil	And from what I have heard, its built like a tank	18:55
GeneralAntilles	Could kill somebody with one.	18:55
divan	v13, lardman, do you ever had a need to print in three different layouts? It's not easy to learn blind typing for 3 layouts.	18:56
v13	GeneralAntilles: have you ever been in a lab with >20 IBMs with those keyboards ?	18:56
GeneralAntilles	v13, when you need function keys on a laptop that isn't a familiar one	18:56
divan	s/print/type/	18:56
infobot	divan meant: v13, lardman, do you ever had a need to type in three different layouts? It's not easy to learn blind typing for 3 layouts.	18:56
GeneralAntilles	Or when you need to calibrate switching from Qwerty to Dvorak.	18:56
GeneralAntilles	v13, yes, it's a glorious sound.	18:56
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v13	GeneralAntilles: what about midnight programming ?	18:56
GeneralAntilles	Makes me long for mechanical typewriters.	18:56
Choom	divan: I can percectly type in two layouts	18:56
Choom	without looking at the keyboard	18:56
lardman	divan: no, and I remember working in Switzerland and having terrible troubles with the Z and Y	18:56
GeneralAntilles	v13, what's midnight programming if the neighborhood doesn't know?	18:56
GeneralAntilles	Choom, so can I.	18:57
jonwil	The ultimate keyboard would be a cross between an IBM Model M and an Optimus Maximus	18:57
lardman	divan: so I understand your pain there	18:57
divan	ChanServ, me too. But in third I have to look sometimes on keyboard. And functional keys were already mentioned.	18:57
v13	divan: I was a bit joking about the illuminated keyboards. Although I found the random key placements of laptops a bit annoying...	18:57
GeneralAntilles	Choom, the problem is I have to have a layout on the keys to put my mind in the right muscle memory.	18:57
jonwil	i.e. take the cool sound and feel of the Model M and the cool lit-up displays of the Optimus	18:57
jonwil	and you have the ultimate keyeboard	18:57
GeneralAntilles	I can't type Qwerty on Dvorak (or the reverse).	18:57
divan	s/Chanserv/Choom/	18:57
gri	lardman: I will have the Z and Y trouble with the n950 ... not better :)	18:57
lardman	yeah, I keep turning the volume up rather than jumping to the end of the line	18:57
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Choom	GeneralAntilles: I use a US layout by default (which is also printed on the keyboard), but I can also type using a portuguese layout just fine with an american keyboard, except for one key that's missing on most US keyboards, which is the key between left shift and Z	18:59
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jonwil	I wish I could afford one of the fancy keyboards with the clickey feel and the loud key noise	19:01
jonwil	Its a pitty more keyboards that give you that nice loud click dont exist	19:02
GAN900	Choom, how different is the Portuguese layout, though?	19:02
* RST38h yawns as if to swallow the sun		19:02
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RST38h	Soo, anything new and exciting?	19:02
jonwil	But I think loud keyboards became a victim of the cubicle revolution of the late 80s/90s	19:02
jonwil	I am still working on the mce display plugin	19:02
Choom	GAN900: lots, they have absolutely nothing in common beyond being QWERTY	19:02
jonwil	and the mce vibrator plugin	19:02
RST38h	jonwil: Nothing to do with the cubicle revolution, remmeber, for a very long time offices had open layout with a lot of mech typewriters	19:03
GAN900	jonwil, and cost cutting	19:03
GAN900	Look at the cheap shit bundled with computers these days	19:03
RST38h	jonwil: Rubber key membranes are simply cheaper	19:03
GAN900	doesn't last more than a couple years.	19:03
jonwil	yeah cost cutting is the real thing	19:03
lardman	hmm, they are apparently selling these softtouch quiet ones as a feature	19:03
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lardman	keys are too close together though imho	19:03
GAN900	jonwil, pckeyboard.com	19:03
RST38h	yeah	19:03
Choom	I have a logitech G19 at home	19:03
jonwil	My current keyboard is a Logitech, mostly because it was the only non-sucky keyboard I could find	19:03
Choom	which is backlit	19:03
GAN900	~$80	19:03
Choom	though I don't care much	19:04
* RST38h uses the occassion to blame Steve Jobs for island keyboards		19:04
GAN900	Don't need backlit on desktop keyboard	19:04
jonwil	island keyboards are?	19:04
GAN900	That layout I've had memorized for years.	19:04
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jonwil	even more important than a good keyboard is a good mouse	19:05
RST38h	jonwil: see any apple keyboard and you will know	19:05
jonwil	me, I have a Microsoft USB optical that is just perfect	19:05
RST38h	what those freaking island keyoboards are	19:06
jonwil	and I would gladly buy another identical mouse if I could find one	19:06
jonwil	but all the mice I see in the shops suck	19:06
* divan tries to avoid mouse usage. vim is a perfect tool here :)		19:06
RST38h	GAN: You will honestly refuse a keyboard with individually backlit RGB LED keys?	19:06
GAN900	MX Revolution	19:06
RST38h	GAN: No, really?	19:06
holmesII	hi, i just run maemo virtual machine in my VMWARE, i just wonder, should I install something or can I just start the ESBOX?	19:06
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GAN900	RST38h, no, but I don't need it on my desktop.	19:07
RST38h	ok, fair	19:07
GAN900	It's too bad Logitech got rid of the clutched scroll wheel	19:07
GAN900	Most genius mouse innovation since the optical mouse.	19:07
jonwil	I dont want or need a battery-sucking wireless mouse. I dont want a tiny doesnt-fit-in-my-hand "notebook" mouse and I dont want a fancy expensive gaming mouse with a laser sensor originally developed for NASA	19:08
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jonwil	I just want a simple mouse with a few extra buttons on the sides	19:08
jonwil	nice big buttons	19:08
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jonwil	like my current MS	19:08
jonwil	but no-one makes the mouse I want :(	19:08
GAN900	I need a lot of buttons on my mouse	19:08
v13	get a second keyboard :P	19:09
nid0	jonwil, wouldnt the current intellimouse explorer or optical series work for you	19:09
v13	GAN900: or this: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/11/18-button-open-office-mouse-makes-a-keyboard-look-minimal/	19:09
* RST38h also liked the old Logitech mouse		19:09
RST38h	the one built like a little cliff	19:09
* Scifig bought a cheap wireless "nano" mouse off Amazon and the scrollwheel stopped working in < 30 days :(		19:09
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OkropNick	I'm trying to make full backup of N900 using rsync with -avz switches, but permissions on destination machine are not preserved. Is it because I'm not logged in on destination machine as root?	19:11
jonwil	Microsoft doesn't make the the intellimouse explorer anymore	19:11
v13	yes. you muse be root to preserve ownership	19:11
jonwil	at least not according to their website	19:11
v13	OkropNick: But most probably what you want to use is tar instead of rsync	19:11
v13	OkropNick: At least for what you describve	19:11
timeless	sp3000: ping	19:12
kerio	~ass rage	19:12
infobot	it has been said that ass rage is Mass STOrage	19:12
kerio	LOL	19:12
* timeless needs someone who speaks sed		19:12
nid0	jonwil, dunno where you are but you can still get them anywhere in the uk, every computer retailer sells em	19:12
jonwil	I havent seen em at any local retailer for a while	19:12
nid0	including amazon	19:12
jonwil	but I havent been looking that hard either	19:12
OkropNick	v13: thx, I'd rather rsync, it faster after next future usage	19:12
v13	OkropNick: oh.. sure	19:13
v13	timeless: I speak a bit	19:13
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nid0	OkropNick, you do also actually need to specify -p	19:14
OkropNick	nid0: thhanks	19:15
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jonwil	The problem with the current intellimouse compared to the one I have is that the 4th and 5th mouse buttons are too small and in the wrong place	19:16
jonwil	http://www.overclock.net/attachments/computer-peripherals/131090d1259511676-help-mouse-razer-diamondback-msftintellimouse.jpg	19:16
jonwil	Thats the mouse I have now	19:16
jonwil	This one	19:16
jonwil	http://www.performancegaming.com.au/product_images/r/807/Intellimouse_main__39633_zoom__53367_zoom.jpg	19:16
jonwil	I believe is the latter model Intellimouse	19:16
jonwil	with the 4th and 5th buttons in the wrong place	19:16
jonwil	and too small	19:17
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jonwil	my current mouse lets me have my 5 fingers over the 5 buttons	19:17
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RST38h	BTW http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/e609/?cpg=froogle	19:18
RST38h	The white one is kinda ugly but the black one...mhmmm	19:19
nid0	god I wish we had thinkgeek in the uk	19:19
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RST38h	You have Amazon, which also sells these	19:20
RST38h	look for "Luxeed keyboard"	19:20
nid0	95% of the stuff on thinkgeek cant be got here though	19:20
jonwil	thinkgeek will ship just fine to the UK btw :)	19:20
jonwil	last I checked	19:20
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nid0	yeah, but they assrape you for delivery costs	19:20
RST38h	nid0: free delivery on this one, form amazon us at least	19:20
nid0	I checked it a while ago and they wanted like $130 shipping for something that was like $40 and not particularly heavy	19:21
RST38h	besides, I have heard your government is doing most assraping	19:21
nid0	oh nice, luxeed keyboard on amazon uk, £158	19:21
nid0	thats a healthy markup	19:21
RST38h	nid0: kinda abnormal, you may have dealt with some overseas seller working through amazon	19:21
nid0	and only in white :<	19:21
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RST38h	wait, I will find you one in UK	19:21
nid0	RST38h: sorry think we're getting wires crossed, that was thinkgeek's shipping cost to the uk	19:22
sid__	is it possible to reflash n900 from shell with flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R without usb connection (it is broken)	19:22
RST38h	Ah ok	19:22
sid__	i mean directly from device	19:22
nid0	amazon uk do sell that keyboard though through a seller, at £158	19:22
RST38h	Will f103.20 do?	19:22
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RST38h	http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_30003.html	19:23
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v13	bb	19:25
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nid0	heh, $40 case of bawls from thinkgeek = $124 with shipping to the uk :p	19:25
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lardman	see you all tomorrow	19:25
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* GAN900 notes spam from a local dealership isn't N950 mail.		19:30
jonwil	reverse engineering the vibrator plugin is going to be a pain in the ass :(	19:30
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GAN900	I guess the Finns have probably gone home for the day.	19:30
Corsac	jonwil: that's a confusing sentence :)	19:31
Corsac	do you really want to reverse engineer the vibrator in the ass?	19:31
jonwil	:P	19:32
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Sazpaimon	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74669	19:35
Sazpaimon	oh my god	19:35
Sazpaimon	this guy	19:35
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khertan	Does inotify is available in the Maemo Kernel ?	19:36
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alterego	Yes	19:37
khertan	nice ... thx	19:37
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Jaffa	Sazpaimon: Wow	19:40
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Sazpaimon	Jaffa, this guy has made like, four threads about this	19:43
Jaffa	Sazpaimon: He must be making really good progress then	19:43
Sazpaimon	oh yeah	19:44
Sazpaimon	he already made a poll with 10 possible names for the project	19:44
OkropNick	is this tutorial good for rsync backup, or some more additional directories should be excluded from backup?: http://wiki.maemo.org/Manual_backup_and_restore#rsync	19:44
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OkropNick	I can see that /opt is mounted in /home/opt - so probably it should be excluded from backup	19:48
divan	Is it real? http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/ - Power Management: GSM StandBy time up to 16 days(!!)	19:48
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khertan	divan, don't i didn't have one	19:49
khertan	:)	19:49
khertan	but n900 page say GSM Standby Time up to	19:50
khertan	12 days	19:50
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SpeedEvil	I think 12 days is gettable, but only in suspend-RAM mode	19:51
divan	khertan, ah.. clear :) How was it measured?	19:51
SpeedEvil	Which isn't implemented.	19:51
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DocScrutinizer	~1320 / ( 24 * 12 )	19:53
infobot	4.583333333333	19:53
DocScrutinizer	sounds completely feasible, without suspend2ram	19:53
SpeedEvil	Maybe just.	19:53
DocScrutinizer	sure 'just' - it says "up to"	19:54
Scifig	OkropNick: /syspart /tmp /var/tmp /var/run /proc are also not necessary i think.	19:54
OkropNick	Sc0rpius: thx, I'll check it	19:55
OkropNick	Scifig: : thx, I'll check it	19:55
DocScrutinizer	OkropNick: you generally exclude all "alien" filesystems	19:55
OkropNick	:)	19:55
DocScrutinizer	see du -x /	19:56
Scifig	OkropNick: Also, you need to figure out which folders you don't need to sync using rsync. For example, I also exclude /home/user/MyDocs/.videos since I already have them on a PC	19:57
DocScrutinizer	khertan: tracker uses inotify a lot	19:57
OkropNick	Scifig: I'm also excluding these folders	19:58
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OkropNick	I'll check disc usage with x switch	19:58
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DocScrutinizer	OkropNick: see wiki user:joerg_rw/tools - I placed there the rsync line I use for syncing once a day	19:59
khertan	DocScrutinizer, tracker isn't a good example ...	19:59
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DocScrutinizer	it is, as it's the classical usage of inotify	20:00
OkropNick	DocScrutinizer: Can I askfor direct link?	20:00
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	20:00
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* MohammadAG grumbles 1091 2 root RW 0 0.0 90.6 [sgx_misr]		20:01
DocScrutinizer	khertan: since I don't know your usecase, I obviously can't tell what's a good example for _you_. That's why I used tracker as it demonstrates what inotify is usually used for and what it does	20:02
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: did you get your dhl number?	20:02
DocScrutinizer	yep	20:02
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: awesome, so whats the current status?	20:02
MohammadAG	can I track it for you?	20:02
khertan	DocScrutinizer, :)	20:02
DocScrutinizer	sittin in Helsinki Airport, waiting for dunno what	20:03
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: ah, so its waiting for the DHL cargo flight	20:03
DocScrutinizer	possibly	20:03
DocScrutinizer	I enabled SMS notification on all events	20:03
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so you'll have before the end of the week \o/	20:03
DocScrutinizer	expect it to arrive tomorrow	20:04
hiemanshu	wow	20:04
hiemanshu	thats fast :D	20:04
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* hiemanshu is still fucking waiting to order		20:04
Scifig	DocScrutinizer: Thanks for the Wiki link. Is your rsync script running as root on PC?	20:04
DocScrutinizer	DHL express is overnight	20:04
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gri	hiemanshu: you're not alone ...	20:04
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MohammadAG	Why oh why	20:04
MohammadAG	didn't I get my	20:04
hiemanshu	gri: I was from the first few to be approved by launchpad	20:04
DocScrutinizer	Scifig: err, as user iirc, from user crontab	20:04
MohammadAG	email, couldn't find anything that rhymes	20:05
hiemanshu	gri: so I am expecting tomorrow to order, and monday to get it here	20:05
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: Why oh Why, didn't I get my email, I sat home waiting after dumping my female?	20:05
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, any ideas if express shipping is available for outside EU orders?	20:05
DocScrutinizer	Nokia will ship DHL express worldwide, dunno if that means overnight worldwide, prolly not	20:06
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: well 3-4 days	20:06
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I want it before the 15th to show it off at the Qt meetup :D	20:06
MohammadAG	well, friday's a weekend but they won't stop the plane mid air for that	20:07
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: DHL works weekends, just no delivery	20:07
* MohammadAG hopes it ships tomorrow morning		20:07
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: you need the email first :P	20:07
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: I'm really sorry about that, but there's absolutely nothing I can do	20:07
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: #JustSaying :P	20:07
Scifig	DocScrutinizer: I am using similar rsync setup (pushing to PC instead). Will permissions of maemo files (root vs user) be retained with rsync?	20:07
* gri has bad experience with dhl express ... normal dhl was always faster		20:08
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, was overnight for me.	20:08
DocScrutinizer	I guess after the rather small number of shippings today, tomorrow will be a busy day	20:08
GAN900	From Finland.	20:08
hiemanshu	GAN900: to US?>	20:09
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: to US?	20:09
GAN900	Yeah	20:09
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GAN900	With the N900 DDP	20:09
DocScrutinizer	well, your night then ;-)	20:09
GAN900	and . . . other things.	20:09
DocScrutinizer	GRRRRR	20:09
DocScrutinizer	;-)	20:09
GAN900	N900 September Proto,	20:09
Scifig	So what does this magical email from launchpad have? A link where you can place the order or something?	20:10
DocScrutinizer	~n950order	20:10
infobot	somebody said n950order was https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-)	20:10
GAN900	Scifig, when the N950 email comes, yes.	20:10
DocScrutinizer	that's the link	20:10
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DocScrutinizer	there's NUTTIN in that mail, except that link	20:10
hiemanshu	Unexpected error :(	20:11
DocScrutinizer	the fact you get that mail indicates the URL above has started to work	20:11
Scifig	DocScrutinizer: Thanks. "Unexpected Error" as expected. F5 marathon continues	20:12
Scifig	I had a small hope that the email was just a formality and the link might work now since the launchpad membership is already approved.	20:13
DocScrutinizer	Scifig: the link may work some hours before mail is reaching you	20:13
DocScrutinizer	or not, usually	20:14
DocScrutinizer	probably the mail is faster usually than the status change in their mysql backend	20:14
Scifig	Well, I will just believe what sounds good to me :) bookmarked the link	20:14
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DocScrutinizer	Scifig: I've seen mail providers "processing" delivered mails for hours	20:15
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DocScrutinizer	sometimes half a day	20:16
DocScrutinizer	gmail been notorious for that	20:16
Scifig	Yes, I have seen that with gmail too	20:16
sid__	is it possible to perform a firmwarupgrade directly from n900 xterm? Does "flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R" work?	20:16
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DocScrutinizer	sid__: good question - probably not	20:17
sid__	DocScrutinizer: any other way? my usb is broken	20:17
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Scifig	sid__: May be OTA might work if your USB port is broken. But I donno how to get it to work	20:17
hiemanshu	sid__: um, how do you expect that to work? you cannot flash the root fs while you are using the root fs	20:17
DocScrutinizer	sid__: anyway you have to start softupd or sth like that	20:18
SpeedEvil	You can update from meego - if you can get that booted. I don't lknow of any detailed howtos though.	20:18
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: actually once the image.bin on ideally eMMC got opened and flasher is in RAM and executing, you can stop scheduler and run a flashing process happily even to rootfs	20:19
Seablade	Hey quick question, what is a decent going rate for an n900 with a broken screen and USB port?	20:19
DocScrutinizer	50 bucks	20:20
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DocScrutinizer	if at all	20:20
Seablade	About what I was thinking too, just wanted to see if anyone had a dissenting opinion	20:20
sid__	so i just have to boot from mmc1	20:20
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: is there a way to do it?	20:20
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Seablade	Pretty much I am just looking to purchase one for spare parts sinceI need to do some repairs on mine	20:21
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I mean a tested way?	20:21
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: in theory yes. Practically I doubt it's implemented	20:21
DocScrutinizer	Seablade: when screen and mobo is broken, what are the spare parts then?	20:22
DocScrutinizer	stylus? backcover?	20:22
RST38h	stylus!	20:22
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: eMMC? camera lens? SoC?	20:22
Seablade	DocScrutinizer The USB port I can likely resolder myself I suspect, to get the MOBO in working condition	20:22
DocScrutinizer	LOL	20:22
DocScrutinizer	camera module, fair enough	20:22
DocScrutinizer	Seablade: gambling	20:23
DocScrutinizer	that's why I said 50	20:23
Seablade	DocScrutinizer And since the GSM chip in mine seems to be shot that would give me a working mobo again to allow me to actually use it as a phone	20:23
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	20:23
DocScrutinizer	Seablade: if you know to hold a hot iron, you probably can fix USB	20:24
Seablade	DocScrutinizer Truth be told I am trying to find a pic of the USB port before I make a final offer just to confirm I can do the repair myself, I do at least know my way around an iron	20:24
Seablade	DocScrutinizer Considering part of my job description is doing repairs with an iron, though primarily on larger non-SMD devices, I suspect I can get that repair done	20:24
DocScrutinizer	get that zip pic http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27	20:25
DocScrutinizer	and this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991	20:26
sid__	DocScrutinizer: maybe you want to repair my usb connector?	20:26
DocScrutinizer	should help a bit	20:26
DocScrutinizer	sid__: I'm too old for that kinda stuff	20:26
Seablade	DocScrutinizerIt does, that zip pic is interesting, looks like they mounted a SMD USB port to a different plane and then ran jumpers to the connection points on the original board, odd	20:27
Scifig	Will Nokia repair broken N900 USB if that's out of warranty? Any idea how much would they charge?	20:27
Seablade	DocScrutinizer But the other pics all show that it is a pretty large solder contact area it seems so shouldn't be difficult to resolder	20:27
DocScrutinizer	Seablade: nah that's original location of USB	20:27
DocScrutinizer	Seablade: just new solder points a bit off	20:28
DocScrutinizer	Scifig: nope, they don't	20:28
* Scifig clutches his 3rd replacement N900 with fear		20:29
Seablade	Yea I am tempted to stockpile a few n900 these days...	20:30
hiemanshu	gah, its been 3 hours and my N900 still wont power on :(	20:30
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: wait til "green"!	20:30
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: when I power it on, it turns white, then green for a few seconds and then blinking orange again	20:31
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: hmm	20:31
MohammadAG	so, anyone with a facebook can now do video calls	20:31
DocScrutinizer	might be dead cell	20:31
MohammadAG	even more reason to use G+	20:31
cpscotti	Scifig ? Third n900? Glad to know I'm not the only one.. :D	20:31
hiemanshu	yeah my bro is home, going to try the battery from his	20:32
Scifig	I remember Jaffa said they sent him an N8 as a replacement for his N900. I hope they checked with him first.	20:32
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: order a cheap new fake battery	20:32
Scifig	I don't want no symbian. Thank you	20:32
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: lemme test if its the battery	20:32
alterego	No, they didn't check with him first.	20:32
Scifig	cpscotti: 1st time - USB broke, 2nd time - SIM not recognized.	20:32
antman8968	link to cheap new fake battery that can be trusted pls!	20:34
* DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia cut N900 legs due to fab QA issues		20:34
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I plugged out the charger, put the battery in again, and it boots up just fine and shows a 97% charged battery	20:34
DocScrutinizer	maybe they didn't get their fab QA test procedures tuned to maemo devices?	20:34
cpscotti	Scifig, my story's way worse; 1st stolen, 2 stolen. First had smscon but not properly configured; second didn't had anything.	20:35
Scifig	alterego:That sucks. I will remember that before sending for repair next time	20:35
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: so maybe bme gone mad - I'd not exactly be surprised	20:35
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yeah maybe	20:36
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Scifig	cpscotti: Thats horrible	20:36
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: maybe you should ge real figures: use bq27200.sh	20:36
cpscotti	Scifig, I know! I know.. but all's fine now..	20:36
DocScrutinizer	get*	20:37
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hmm, how do I use? is it already installed?	20:37
SpeedEvil	Random question. I've been overcharged by DHL for an inbound package to me - they've overbilled the customs fee. Has anyone got any idea where to go from here?	20:38
SpeedEvil	UK	20:38
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nid0	most carriers will charge an "admin fee" on top of customs charges when theres one due	20:40
nid0	What is the administration fee?	20:42
nid0	The fee for business customers is £10 or 2% of the total duty/VAT amount incurred, whichever is the greate	20:42
nid0	r	20:42
nid0	that's dhl's	20:42
nid0	or if you had something going to you as an individual	20:42
nid0	We charge £1.25, or 2% of the total duty/VAT incurred, whichever is the greater	20:42
SpeedEvil	nid0: yeah - I object to the 10 quid fee. But the problem is they charged 20 quid duty on a (correctly) declared 50 dollar/35 quid item.	20:44
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SpeedEvil	I guess I need to phone them.	20:44
nid0	if thats the actual customs charge rather than dhl's admin fee, you'll presumably need to take it up with hmrc rather than dhl	20:44
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bq27200	20:44
SpeedEvil	nid0: Possibly, yes.	20:45
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: though you need i2ctools for that	20:45
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I got http://enivax.net/jk/n900/	20:45
DocScrutinizer	same	20:45
hiemanshu	+it at	20:45
DocScrutinizer	basically	20:45
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vi__	:wq	20:46
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DocScrutinizer	yoyoyo	20:46
GeneralAntilles	I'm going to drink a glass of orange juice every 2 hours until Nokia sends me an N950 email.	20:47
DocScrutinizer	Vi__ says :wq - LOL	20:47
GeneralAntilles	Mmm . . . orange juice.	20:47
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: there is an indian movie 'Delhi Belly' if you watch it, you'll not have orange juice for a while :P	20:47
sid__	DocScrutinizer: is the connector useful/working? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71414&page=4	20:49
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timeless	GeneralAntilles: expensive orange juice, or the cheap stuff?	20:49
timeless	because i'd expect it'd get quite pricy	20:49
GeneralAntilles	timeless, well, orange juice is never expensive in Florida.	20:50
GeneralAntilles	But it's roadside.	20:50
GeneralAntilles	So, I guess it's technically the expensive stuff.	20:50
timeless	but at a local discount	20:50
timeless	so unfair	20:50
rm_work	lol	20:50
GeneralAntilles	timeless, hey, move to Florida.	20:51
GeneralAntilles	We'll drink orange juice together. :P	20:51
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: what output from the script am I looking for?	20:51
timeless	:)	20:51
DocScrutinizer	sid__: eh?	20:51
timeless	but i just moved once	20:51
timeless	and i'm already burning up here	20:51
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: first of all voltage, and current	20:51
* timeless hearts Aero behaviors		20:52
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cpscotti	gee.. something nasty happened with my n900's bluetooth.. It won't go ON (either by calling the api or by going on the Bluetooth menu itself)	20:52
DocScrutinizer	it's always correct and gives you a pretty good idea about state of your cell	20:52
cpscotti	aaand it erased the device name by itself	20:52
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: Reported Battery voltage : 4035 mV	20:52
DocScrutinizer	may be 80..90%	20:52
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DocScrutinizer	should still charge ~150mA	20:53
hiemanshu	CSOC: 93%, RSOC: 93%	20:53
sid__	for reflashing with broken usb	20:53
DocScrutinizer	irrelevant	20:53
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DocScrutinizer	sid__: for flashing with broken USB I'd strongly recommend NOT to solder to those testpoints, but rather find a proper fixture to contact them with spring loaded contacts, so called pogopins	20:54
GeneralAntilles	timeless, how's the new job?	20:54
timeless	pretty good	20:54
timeless	but Nightly's update behavior sucks	20:54
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holmesII	DocScrutinizer, i am using SCBOX, but when i compile the file mohammad gave me yesterday, i got nothing.	20:55
sid__	DocScrutinizer: jea, i mean the connector http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1025996&postcount=35 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N900-UNLOCK-FLASH-CABLE-JAF-UFS-MT-BOX-MXKEY-/320515099442?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccesories_MobilePhoneDataCables_JN&hash=item4aa0304b32	20:55
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timeless	(i always get to restart twice, because the updater is stupid)	20:56
rm_work	timeless, where are you working now?	20:56
DocScrutinizer	that one, it's nice, but a bit of a pain to mod it	20:56
timeless	RIM	20:56
rm_work	lol	20:56
rm_work	should have figured	20:56
rm_work	mobile in CA	20:56
DocScrutinizer	I'll need additional pogopins for it	20:56
DocScrutinizer	need to get*	20:57
sid__	any other suggestions? i do not want to build it myself	20:58
sid__	*where to buy	20:58
timeless	grr	20:58
timeless	flash is out of date	20:58
timeless	so i get to restart again	20:58
GeneralAntilles	timeless, one reason I stopped using FF.	20:59
GeneralAntilles	(aside from the non-native widgets)	20:59
timeless	um	20:59
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: http://fpaste.org/skVr/	20:59
timeless	no browser uses native widgets...	20:59
holmesII	need help, DocScrutinizer	20:59
GeneralAntilles	i.e., in the browser window UI.	20:59
GeneralAntilles	Not the webwidgets.	20:59
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DocScrutinizer	holmesII: sorrry I'm busy. Ask the author of the file please	21:00
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG knows way better how to build that than me	21:01
timeless_	and note that Adobe's updater is stupid	21:01
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MohammadAG	you'll get a .so file whihc you have to place in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop	21:01
holmesII	ok, thanks anyway.	21:01
MohammadAG	someone correct my typo, kthxbai	21:01
timeless	it could trivially determine that firefox doesn't use the flash plugin	21:02
timeless	and deal w/ updating the plugin	21:02
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timeless	it could also rename the plugin, install the replacement, register a delete-later thing	21:02
timeless	and then terminate a plugin-container which is actually using flash	21:02
timeless	firefox would deal w/ it	21:03
MohammadAG	holmesII, can't see why you need to see it though	21:04
MohammadAG	it's just a clone of the default battery indicator	21:04
MohammadAG	without battery sounds	21:04
holmesII	what i need is to gain the charge level (mha) for other purpose use.	21:05
holmesII	i am now running VMWARE. the SCBOX is running fine. I can debug your program but when i run it. there is no output. no .so files.	21:05
holmesII	i need to read your program and learn how to get the charge level.	21:06
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holmesII	but if i compile with make in terminal. i will get the same results as in N900.	21:08
holmesII	the only thing i am doing now is create a empty project and import your code into it and compile.	21:08
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Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG, ... ours is not to question why ;) hehe	21:11
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Noobmonk3y	i'm sure about 2 years ago someone said can we overclock etc etc.... and most said why (Replace overclock with anything like hostmode blah blah)	21:12
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rm_work	Noobmonk3y: truth	21:17
timeless	ooh, The Wizard of Oz is playing today	21:17
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rm_work	also, any time I talked to Quim about my app, he would consistently just say "i don't see why that's necessary"	21:17
rm_work	(advanced backlight)	21:17
hiemanshu	rm_work: but you are getting a N950 right?	21:17
rm_work	yes	21:17
rm_work	and he kept approving me to go to conferences and such	21:18
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, it wasn't THAT bad.	21:18
GeneralAntilles	It was just the one time here. :P	21:18
hiemanshu	rm_work: http://www.ihighfive.com/	21:18
timeless	http://www.blogto.com/film/2011/06/free_outdoor_film_screenings_in_toronto_summer_2011/	21:18
* timeless is amused by the start times		21:18
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: you weren't at Mozilla/Maemo Denmark	21:18
GeneralAntilles	Ah	21:18
GeneralAntilles	Did he make you cry?	21:18
rm_work	lol	21:18
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: http://www.ihighfive.com/	21:18
GeneralAntilles	Want me to go beat him up for you?	21:18
rm_work	no but he was like "wtf, not needed" the whole time	21:19
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GeneralAntilles	lol	21:19
GeneralAntilles	"WHY ARE YOU HERE?"	21:19
rm_work	though he did get that ridiculous top-down picture of me	21:19
GeneralAntilles	"Because you approved me."	21:19
rm_work	yeah basically	21:19
Noobmonk3y	:)	21:19
GeneralAntilles	"I ASK AGAIN. WHY ARE YOU HERE?"	21:19
MohammadAG	umm, project?	21:20
MohammadAG	just run make	21:20
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hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: bcoz I am so fucken sick, dawg :P	21:20
holmesII	yes. if i run make, i will get the same results as i did in N900. it said i don't have hildon-1 package	21:20
MohammadAG	then install it	21:21
holmesII	but when i create an empty project in SCBOX, i can see there is referece for hildon-1 and many others	21:21
holmesII	when i run make, i got the error results	21:21
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: http://twitter.com/#!/b0unc3/status/88511652525383680 :(	21:21
GeneralAntilles	That's such bullshit.	21:22
* GeneralAntilles rages a bit.		21:22
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GeneralAntilles	Think they're rolling dice to see who to approve next?	21:23
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: he/she is from batch three :/	21:23
rm_work	ah, this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/quimgil/3579487690/	21:23
GeneralAntilles	Nice	21:24
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rm_work	ROFL just saw this one for the first time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmy2k/3587005206/	21:25
hiemanshu	rm_work: thats you?	21:26
rm_work	yes lol	21:26
timeless	peeling kiwis is optional..	21:26
rm_work	timeless: indeed :P	21:26
hiemanshu	rm_work: were you planning on swallowing the one thing at once?	21:27
rm_work	lol nearly	21:27
rm_work	a kiwi is like 3 bites for me	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Pfff	21:27
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, got a Flickr account?	21:27
hiemanshu	rm_work: fucking monster :P	21:27
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: nope :/ i don't think i do, at least	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Get one.	21:28
rm_work	k sec	21:28
GeneralAntilles	Then we can tag you in all of these pictures	21:28
RST38h	rm_work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cbuddha/2267949099/	21:28
GeneralAntilles	and generations to come can laugh and laugh.	21:28
rm_work	rofl RST38h	21:28
Sazpaimon	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=74663	21:29
Sazpaimon	goddamn	21:29
Sazpaimon	i hate TMO	21:29
rm_work	ah i can sign in to flickr with google	21:29
hiemanshu	so we are showing off pics?	21:29
hiemanshu	rm_work: http://i.imgur.com/qDHrl.jpg thats the view outside my house at around 7-ish every day	21:30
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rm_work	GeneralAntilles: i think I have one but i can't remember the login info	21:31
rm_work	at least, rm_you is taken	21:31
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rm_work	and i feel like i remember signing up before now	21:31
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hiemanshu	for those of you who haven't been to india : https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/149259_451312467804_685872804_6075996_2752887_n.jpg <--- thats a reason to come :D	21:32
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rm_work	GeneralAntilles: lol, my yahoo account won't let me recover my password until tomorrow	21:33
RST38h	Nice. But too hot, too humid, too many people =)	21:33
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, I feel like we've discussed this before, too.	21:34
rm_work	possibly	21:34
RST38h	aha, tmo has now officially degenerated to the *chan status	21:34
rm_work	lol	21:34
rm_work	i should just start Maemo-Chan	21:34
hiemanshu	RST38h: well no, thats a beach, about 500 kms from where I stay, barely any people there, room rents are about $5 a night	21:34
piggz	has anyone selected for an n950 not yeat heard back grom launchpad/got an update on progress?	21:35
RST38h	Two first items stay though =)	21:35
rm_work	piggz: pretty much everyone is still waiting	21:35
GeneralAntilles	This is why everyone should come to Florida: http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/charlotte/22796d1215481567-nother-name-insect-alligator_snake2.jpg	21:35
rm_work	a few random people got in	21:35
hiemanshu	piggz: I know alterego hasn't heard back from launchpad yet	21:35
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: wtf am i looking at, rofl	21:36
piggz	cool..not jsut me, was getting worried :)	21:36
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RST38h	General: Darwin approves!	21:36
rm_work	is that an alligtor that got eaten by a snake and then broke open the snake?	21:36
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, python tried to eat a gator in the Everglades.	21:36
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: I have a reason to come to florida already	21:36
timeless	GeneralAntilles: was there a conclusion?	21:37
GeneralAntilles	and if that's not your speed, how about this? http://rvtreks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/North-Beach-at-Fort-Desoto-1024x768.jpg	21:37
ruskie	http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Samsung-fends-off-Microsoft-and-Apple-attacks/	21:37
GeneralAntilles	timeless, to the snake eating a gator?	21:37
timeless	yeah	21:37
GeneralAntilles	http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1006_051006_pythoneatsgator.html	21:38
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: well tell the US gov to not disapprove my visa again	21:38
GeneralAntilles	hiemanshu, I'm in favor of open borders, personally.	21:38
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: tried once for a FUDCon in Arizona (sponsored by fedora), and well the fucking embass denied my visa :(	21:38
hiemanshu	embassy*	21:39
RST38h	Ok, https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eqDbXWnIUKA/RS6n3Z8aABI/AAAAAAAAADo/pzqv8y0JcUE/s576/CIMG1523.JPG	21:39
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hiemanshu	RST38h: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/37847_416748857804_685872804_5312135_3770207_n.jpg	21:40
ruskie	I guess if M$ can't win with wp7 it'll go for patent war	21:40
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* GeneralAntilles would rather have the US collecting all of the the useful people it can and not sending them away. :P		21:40
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hiemanshu	https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/39698_416749017804_685872804_5312152_3923519_n.jpg	21:40
RST38h	hiemanshu: Yea, that is how it looks here, just replace water with snow.	21:40
hiemanshu	RST38h: hah	21:41
hiemanshu	RST38h: well its water here	21:41
* hiemanshu is far away from water though		21:41
timeless	GeneralAntilles: so they both lost..	21:41
RST38h	Also, https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vVFSz8V6ras/RS6pKMDrABI/AAAAAAAAAGY/9A2KA0WEHLk/s576/CIMG2068.JPG (last one wasw winter night, this one is summer evening)	21:41
hiemanshu	RST38h: too much light	21:42
timeless	hiemanshu: fwiw, s/disapprove/refuse\|deny/	21:42
RST38h	That is how much was there	21:42
GeneralAntilles	timeless, yep.	21:42
hiemanshu	timeless: well yeah :)	21:42
timeless	ruskie: if you had a product which was built around patents, and you offered to license the product or its patents	21:43
timeless	... and someone shipped a competing product which infringed on your patents	21:43
timeless	... what would you do?	21:43
timeless	... clearly the patents are valuable. hopefully the patents were expensive to develop.	21:43
ruskie	are you considering in the current system or in a sane system?	21:43
timeless	... the reason patents exist is to give their inventor a head start for disclosing the innovation	21:43
ruskie	in the current system... I wouldn't even have a product	21:44
timeless	ruskie: the current system.	21:44
timeless	the current system is only partially insane	21:44
RST38h	The reason patents exist is to make money!	21:44
timeless	mostly the timeline is off by a couple of orders of magnitude	21:44
derf	I thought it was to prevent people from making money.	21:44
hiemanshu	RST38h: same goes for NDAs	21:45
RST38h	By changing the current system, you will destroy the whole business ecosystem of companies living off patents!	21:45
derf	Also, acquiring patents, particularly software patents, is not expensive.	21:45
timeless	the reason patents exist is to encourage inventors to disclose and share innovations	21:45
derf	That's the theoretical reason. In practice, the opposite happens.	21:45
timeless	the problem is that in software, a patent should really only last 2-3 years	21:45
ruskie	timeless, I'd rather have no patents and have people hide things	21:45
timeless	unfortuantely, they last upwards of 20	21:45
RST38h	Just think of how many children will go hungry once their lawyer dads stop bringin in the dow	21:45
ruskie	that way atleast people could reimplement thoeir own way	21:45
timeless	RST38h: s/dow/dough/	21:45
RST38h	Yea, sorry	21:46
GeneralAntilles	derf, that's a function of the timeline as timeless says, though.	21:46
GeneralAntilles	and a function of the USPO being retarded	21:46
derf	RST38h: Thing how many children will be fed because their dads didn't have to pay a lawyer.	21:46
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GeneralAntilles	But that's an inherent property of government.	21:46
derf	GeneralAntilles: What's a function of the timeline?	21:46
timeless	the same applies to copyright	21:46
timeless	the idea isn't bad	21:46
RST38h	BTW, absolutely the same argument works when arguing against federally funded health care	21:46
GeneralAntilles	derf, the particular brokeness.	21:46
timeless	it's that the timeline has been skewed/stretched way too far	21:46
derf	GeneralAntilles: Not really, no.	21:46
RST38h	derf: Those are not successful people, they have something to hide and prove, if they hire lawyers	21:46
RST38h	derf: So, by the laws of social darwinism we shall let 'emstarve	21:47
derf	a) patents are written to obscure as much as possible, and the people trying to do that are better at it than any regulator trying to stop them	21:47
derf	b) engineers are told not to look at patents for liability reasons	21:47
derf	c) even when patents expire, engineers still don't look at them because of a)	21:47
timeless	derf: with a collapsed timeline, i don't think b would be a significant problem	21:48
* RST38h extrapolates 20-30 years into the future, yawns, gets some popcorn		21:48
derf	timeless: See c)	21:48
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timeless	derf: ideally a is solvable	21:48
derf	Bullshit.	21:48
timeless	but yes, it involves adjusting the patent grant process	21:49
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timeless	ideally	21:49
derf	This has been attempted before.	21:49
GeneralAntilles	'course, if politics are involved it's always going to degenerate to shit.	21:49
GeneralAntilles	See: Our Current System	21:49
ruskie	a patent on a physical product that the person/company produces... 20 years sure... patents for non-producers... duration 5 years... sw patents... 2 years	21:49
derf	The FTC has been trying for _decades_.	21:49
derf	The applicants can adapt much, much more quickly than the beauracracy.	21:49
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derf	How about sw patents: never.	21:49
derf	It takes more than 2 years just to process the application.	21:50
ruskie	agreed but atm you need to fix the system that is in place	21:50
timeless	derf: if the span of a patent is sufficiently short	21:50
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timeless	then you won't invest the money in adapting to defeat the other portions	21:50
ruskie	once something is granted/forbidden it's much harder to change	21:50
timeless	hence the timeline is an important factor	21:50
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derf	Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see a shorter timeline.	21:50
derf	But it will not solve all the problems.	21:50
RST38h	Gentlemen, I am reluctant to play Cpt Obvious here (again), but as none of you are capable of CHANGING the US patent law, it makes no sense to argue about it	21:51
timeless	oh, it won't solve everything	21:51
timeless	but it could lead things in a much better direction	21:51
RST38h	Instead, I suggest we argue about what the current situation will lead to in a few years.	21:51
timeless	RST38h: technically i'm a citizen	21:51
timeless	as is GeneralAntilles	21:51
RST38h	timeless: Hey I am also a citizen. What does it change?	21:51
timeless	iirc derf is a UK citizen	21:51
derf	RST38h: Right, I'll remember that the next time I'm at an FTC workshop on patents. I'll just not argue with them because I can't change anything.	21:51
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derf	timeless: No, I'm not.	21:52
RST38h	derf: If you argue with them, will it change anythign?	21:52
ruskie	RST38h, you never know if you don't know	21:52
derf	RST38h: Well, I was certainly the only one there expressing our point of view.	21:52
ruskie	erm don't try	21:52
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timeless	derf: how often have you been to patent workshops?	21:52
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derf	Last one was two weeks ago?	21:52
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RST38h	derf: Probably means the others got tired of that a long while ago =(	21:53
GeneralAntilles	Well, if you don't try you never will change anything. :P	21:53
timeless	http://www.natlawreview.com/article/ftc-hosts-workshop-preventing-patent-hold-ups-standard-setting ?	21:53
derf	timeless: Yes, that one.	21:53
RST38h	and if you do try, you will just be left with the sore throat and the feeling of lost time.	21:53
derf	See also http://xiphmont.livejournal.com/56718.html and the associated comments we submitted, most of which I wrote.	21:53
SpeedEvil	I think I read that earlier	21:54
SpeedEvil	DEpressing.	21:55
RST38h	General: On the other hand though, it is quite possible that Google will be able to affect the situation	21:55
RST38h	General: Given the amount of money they have and the rate at which they hire lobbyists	21:55
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derf	SpeedEvil: Every example in there, even when not tied to specific events, was based on real experiences trying to get stuff standardized.	21:55
derf	RST38h: Google was invited to that workshop. They declined to attend.	21:57
sid__	anyone knows a good documentation for booting maemo from mmc?	21:57
sid__	*does	21:57
derf	I also particularly enjoyed how everyone on the panel tried to pretend that standards are set by engineers without worrying about patents at all, and then the lawyers figure out the licensing later.	21:57
ruskie	derf, I thought that's what cisco wants	21:58
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derf	At least until I explained to FTC people that no, people really really do consider alternatives and try to invent around.	21:58
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derf	ruskie: I cited an example of Cisco themselves publishing information on how to use old, established algorithms instead of patented techniques for ECC.	21:59
SpeedEvil	derf: It's barking mad.	21:59
derf	ruskie: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6090	21:59
ruskie	sno it's ok for cisco to push their own patents into standards but not for others to do so?	22:00
SpeedEvil	Legislators often have a hideously poor understanding of the area they're regulating.	22:00
derf	Well, Cisco is a big company, but yes. That is my understanding of how the system works.	22:00
derf	My patents == good. Your patents == bad.	22:01
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GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, thus why I can't even begin to fathom why people keep voting them more power.	22:01
GeneralAntilles	Like they're some sort of wizened elders.	22:01
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SpeedEvil	This has lead in the case of the UK for example in one trivial area to 'the solar industry' - monkeys that install panels on roofs - driving regulation	22:03
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SpeedEvil	Meaning panels not installed by said monkeys - even if 1/4 of the price - can never pay off.	22:03
rm_work	i hope you mean literal monkeys	22:03
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SpeedEvil	Pretty much, in some cases.	22:04
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GeneralAntilles	Yes, so stop voting these people more power.	22:05
GeneralAntilles	Why does anybody want them in charge of your health care?	22:05
rm_work	I've yet to find a candidate i actually WANT to vote for	22:06
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RST38h	derf:How interesting (about Google declining)	22:06
rm_work	the last election i was trying to vote for whoever i thought would cause the least damage	22:06
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RST38h	General: Is there some alternative group of people you would vote into power?	22:06
ruskie	rm_work, in such cases I prefer to just invalidate my vote	22:06
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RST38h	General: And if this group does come to power, by whatever means, how do you make sure they do not repeat what the last group has done?	22:07
rm_work	ruskie: yeah but at least i TRIED	22:07
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, not particularly.	22:07
GeneralAntilles	But Ron Paul has some appeal.	22:07
RST38h	General: Yea, right... =(	22:07
GeneralAntilles	If he'd stop ranting about the Fed at every opportunity.	22:07
derf	RST38h: I hear they've hired 12 lobbying firms now that the FTC is investigating them.	22:07
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derf	So maybe that will change!	22:08
GeneralAntilles	The two-party system makes real change nearly impossible.	22:08
RST38h	derf: Yeah, seen that in the news a while ago	22:08
rm_work	yeah	22:08
GeneralAntilles	But if everybody weren't always so dumb as to be in favor of more stupidity.	22:08
GeneralAntilles	They wouldn't be able to keep it up.	22:08
RST38h	General: Well, this is how complex systems work	22:08
rm_work	the Tea Party scares me but i'm hoping if we can weather through one term of them in office, it'd break it open for other alternative parties...	22:08
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, the Tea Party is mostly not that scary.	22:09
RST38h	General: If you had a many-party system, there would be complete lack of stability and comprehensive course	22:09
GeneralAntilles	But the media is pretty frightened of what they stand for.	22:09
GeneralAntilles	So makes them out to be as scary as possible.	22:09
RST38h	General: With the two-party system you get stability but also mediocrity	22:09
ruskie	RST38h, hahahaha	22:09
ruskie	good joke	22:09
GeneralAntilles	Notice that the protests in Greece are always described as "peaceful".	22:09
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: are they?	22:09
GeneralAntilles	and Tea Party protests are "violent".	22:09
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, the Greek protests?	22:10
rm_work	lol are they? :P	22:10
GeneralAntilles	Judge for yourself: http://www.google.com/search?oe=utf8&q=greece+protests&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1239&bih=901	22:10
RST38h	General: Notice how whatever is happening in Kosovo is almost never described at all, for example	22:10
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GeneralAntilles	Haven't been any firebombs at Tea Party-sponsored gathering as far as I'm aware.	22:10
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rm_work	i don't know if what i've heard is via "the media" or not, but just the candidates i've seen are freakishly conservative	22:10
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: i mean, are they described as peaceful? That is not the case here	22:10
RST38h	General: And there are more examples like that. The employer tells these journos what to say and how to say it	22:11
rm_work	and i mean socially conservative, not fiscally	22:11
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, well, there are a lot of candidates trying to ride the rise of the movement.	22:11
GeneralAntilles	Who are crazy as all get out.	22:11
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, the socon shit has got to end.	22:11
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ruskie	RST38h, what does Kosovo has with any of this?	22:11
ruskie	as a new nation they have their starting problems...	22:11
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hiemanshu	so does the N950 have 1G actual RAM or is it actual RAM + swap?	22:11
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, see: http://reason.com/archives/2011/07/05/give-peace-a-chance	22:12
RST38h	ruskie: A random example of a topic whose coverage in the US is restricted	22:12
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timeless	GeneralAntilles: that's because no one hates the tea party enough to send them	22:12
RST38h	ruskie: There are more like that of course	22:12
timeless	that doesn't mean a tea party member might not send a firebomb to someone else...	22:12
ruskie	RST38h, well does it really have any meaning to report about stuff from europe or asia in the US?	22:12
RST38h	ruskie: I do not know, you tell me: you seem to have an opinion on the subject	22:12
ruskie	frankly I don't expact to see news about the US or asia in europe	22:12
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: labeling the protests in greece as left is silly	22:12
GeneralAntilles	hiemanshu, actual RAM.	22:12
rm_work	half the candidates seem to be like "I want to ban gay marriage once and for all and overturn Roe vs. Wade"	22:13
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GeneralAntilles	valdyn, protesting against austerity cuts?	22:13
derf	http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/mailbag-why-i-cant-vote-for-ron-paul-20110502	22:13
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: the RDA devices have 512 right?	22:13
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, I agree that "left" and "right" are pretty meaningless.	22:13
GeneralAntilles	hiemanshu, no idea.	22:13
hiemanshu	okay	22:13
derf	I paste that link particularly for the comments in it about Rand Paul, not Ron Paul.	22:13
RST38h	Hehe, finally, a link to Matt's blog :)	22:13
holmesII	once i compiled the code in SCBOX, and i can get one binary code and .o file, how do i run in my N900?	22:14
holmesII	i can run the binary file in xephyr. but how do i run it in my N900?	22:14
MohammadAG	RDA has 5 devices	22:14
MohammadAG	how do you run it in xephyr? it's a plugin	22:15
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, I think the Greek protests are a pretty strong signal that socialist policies in Europe aren't working.	22:15
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: no	22:15
MohammadAG	and should be .so	22:15
holmesII	MohammadAG, i just create a helloworld project in SCBox, and I can compile and run it in xephyr, however, when i copy the folder into my N900. how do i run it?	22:15
MohammadAG	same way	22:15
ruskie	RST38h, basically the main thing with Kosovo is their argmuntes with Serbia... and apparently they reached a few agreements about it recently	22:15
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: greece is broke because any government in greece in the last 40 years spent to much money	22:15
holmesII	i just open the xephyr, and run the project in SCBox, and it's shown helloworld	22:16
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: nothing left or right about that	22:16
ruskie	and frankly that gets boring pretty fast	22:16
MohammadAG	compile for armel	22:16
MohammadAG	sb-menu -> select armel	22:16
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valdyn	GeneralAntilles: and extrapolating anything from greece to "europe" makes no sense	22:16
ruskie	the agreements they got together were about border crossing using only id cards and recognizing education from each other	22:16
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, generally excessive government spending is an attribute of the left.	22:16
ruskie	rather yawnable things	22:16
RST38h	No, ruskie, I am afraid it is not the main thing with Kosovo ...	22:16
GeneralAntilles	Excepting the past decade or so of the shift to the NEW right (neocons).	22:17
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valdyn	GeneralAntilles: so the u.s.a. is left because it has the highest per capita debt ( japan exempt ) ?	22:17
RST38h	ruskie: And the actual main thing is far from boring	22:17
ruskie	do elaborate	22:17
holmesII	yes, i can get a .so file.	22:18
ruskie	I must admit that I don't follow the news very carefully	22:18
RST38h	ruskie: Going too far off topic here	22:18
holmesII	and then ?	22:18
ruskie	feel free to PM	22:18
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, most of the US spending is on income redistribution.	22:18
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GeneralAntilles	valdyn, these are generally programs the left likes to push.	22:18
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: not in europe	22:18
GeneralAntilles	Europe is a messed up place.	22:19
ruskie	it is?	22:19
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GeneralAntilles	I fear left/right are stumbling blocks here.	22:19
GeneralAntilles	ruskie, for my own taste, yes.	22:19
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: europe has left reducing "redistribution" and "right" doing the reverse, and vice vera	22:19
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: its not that simple	22:19
valdyn	( i like redistribution )	22:20
GeneralAntilles	Europe's "left" and "right" are the US's "far-left" and "left"	22:20
GeneralAntilles	Income redistribution is evil shit.	22:20
GeneralAntilles	Especially when it's conducted at gun point.	22:20
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GeneralAntilles	What you want is not more income redistribution, it's fewer barriers to entry into the market.	22:20
valdyn	no, i want income redistribution	22:21
valdyn	and i happily pay my taxes	22:21
holmesII	i got it running !!!!	22:21
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, what I'm saying is that your basic world view is flawed.	22:21
GeneralAntilles	Income redistribution doesn't lead to anything productive.	22:22
GeneralAntilles	If you want all of your money to go to other people, then send it.	22:22
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: i think of my country as one of the most productive in the world, with one of highest redistribution rates of the world	22:22
GeneralAntilles	But don't make everybody else do so at gun point.	22:22
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: and i like it that way	22:22
GeneralAntilles	'course you do, it's emotionally satisfying	22:23
GeneralAntilles	Warm and fuzzy	22:23
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GeneralAntilles	doesn't mean it's ethical or a good choice.	22:23
derf	GeneralAntilles: Excessive government spending is generally an attribute of those in power, left or right.	22:23
GeneralAntilles	derf, I agree.	22:24
derf	In fact the left has had a somewhat better record than the right in recent decades.	22:24
GeneralAntilles	I got trapped by left/right at the start of the discussion.	22:24
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derf	Clinton actually balanced his budget.	22:24
derf	No other administration since the 80's has done so.	22:24
GeneralAntilles	Clinton had an economic boom to help him out.	22:24
derf	Yes, that certainly helped.	22:24
GeneralAntilles	Bush oversaw a huge increase in the size of government	22:24
derf	Also, not starting lots of long-term foreign wars helped.	22:24
rm_work	did he have less or just about the same amount of overseas wars going on	22:24
GeneralAntilles	and Obama is on his way to an even bigger one.	22:24
derf	(whatever you think about Kosovo, etc., at least it was short)	22:25
RST38h	derf: Basically, bombing is ok, especially using cheap drones	22:25
RST38h	derf: Placing people on the ground is stupid, unless you really want to colonize the place =)	22:26
derf	RST38h: Tell that to the civilians in Libiya, Yemen, Pakistan, ...	22:26
derf	*Libya	22:26
derf	I also maintain that these things are still not cheap.	22:26
RST38h	derf: You now better than me that nobody cares about little brown people	22:27
RST38h	derf: When there is a military budget to divide =)	22:27
derf	I wish we didn't!	22:27
derf	Then we wouldn't spend so much money trying to kill them.	22:27
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GeneralAntilles	I still don't get Obama's logic in going into Libya.	22:28
GeneralAntilles	Setting aside his campaign-trail rhetoric.	22:28
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GeneralAntilles	Still doesn't make a lot of sense.	22:28
RST38h	General: Ah, it is pretty simple if you take a few things into account	22:29
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RST38h	General: There is a country whose leader US establishment absolutely hates but who is sitting on a lot of oil and can't be overthrown	22:30
RST38h	General: Then SUDDENLY there are people in Lybia fighting against him	22:30
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GeneralAntilles	It'd be a helluva lot cheaper just to drill in the US. . . .	22:30
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valdyn	this is more likely due to the usa not wanting france to have to much influence over that region	22:30
RST38h	General: The really high level US people do not care to conduct a real analysis of who these people are, how string, etc	22:30
RST38h	strong	22:30
GeneralAntilles	Apparently the CIA has been pouring a lot of money into starting these recent "Arab Dawn" uprisings.	22:31
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GeneralAntilles	valdyn, why the hell would we care about France having influence in North Africa?	22:31
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jacekowski	GeneralAntilles: did they pour money into uprising in span or greece as well?	22:31
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jacekowski	spain*	22:31
RST38h	General: They see that all around Lybia the revolutions are successful, so they think"Ok, we help these Lybian chums just a little bit and they deliver us the head of their extremeleader"	22:31
GeneralAntilles	jacekowski, not from the story I was reading.	22:31
* GeneralAntilles tries to find the link.		22:31
RST38h	General: Enter military deployment, drones, budgets, etc	22:32
GeneralAntilles	Google is, of course, useless.	22:32
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RST38h	General: Then SUDDENLY they look closely and see that they are dealing with a bunch of tribal bandits not having great success against the tyrant	22:33
valdyn	GeneralAntilles: because theres huge business, just like after any war	22:33
GeneralAntilles	valdyn, mmm, if you say so.	22:33
RST38h	General: So, tell me, what an average US policy maker to do in this case?	22:33
derf	Clearly the answer is not ask for war authorization and continue to conduct the war anyway using insane legal "theories".	22:34
GeneralAntilles	Hehehe	22:35
derf	The problem with statues like the War Powers act is there's no credible enforcement mechanism, "Okay, so you broke the law. Now we can... tell you to stop?"	22:36
derf	*statutes	22:37
GeneralAntilles	Limited Government	22:37
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holmesII	is there any battery information logger source code?	22:38
RST38h	General: ...won't help here	22:38
jacekowski	holmesII: probably yes	22:39
jacekowski	holmesII: there are few loggers	22:39
holmesII	please!	22:39
RST38h	General: Because there is a system of huge militry contractors, the career military personnel looking for advancement, the politicians who would like to look "strong on international policy", etc	22:39
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jacekowski	holmesII: and so you have to check on maemo.org the one you're using	22:40
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, hey, I'm trying to keep my cynicism under control. :P	22:40
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RST38h	General: You can either kill 'em all off and end up in anarchy, or keep them and watch this daily circus	22:40
GeneralAntilles	Why isn't somebody is Mountain View working on these N950s?	22:41
GeneralAntilles	I mean, don't they want to get them to their application developers ASAP?	22:41
RST38h	their definition of asap might be different from yours =)	22:42
GeneralAntilles	"Two to three weeks"	22:42
* GeneralAntilles waits patiently for his decoder ring.		22:42
MohammadAG	holmesII, dude, I already pointed you to a source	22:42
piggz	GeneralAntilles: at least in that case it wont arrive while im away next week!	22:42
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npm	GeneralAntilles: Re: N950's -- have you heard back regarding developer launchpad application?	22:43
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, ping?	22:43
GeneralAntilles	Any idea what's drawing the DEVELOPER EDITION on the statusbar?	22:43
holmesII	im in meamo.org->development now, and searched battery logger. got nothing so far. but i am keep on trying it.	22:43
GeneralAntilles	npm, approved for LaunchPad today	22:43
GeneralAntilles	No device so far.	22:43
npm	oh... so do they send mail?	22:44
GeneralAntilles	Email when the N950 gets up on DDP	22:44
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piggz	hopefully i will getlanuchpad approved tomorrow then	22:45
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Noobmonk3y	Jaffa, how bigs the hdd on the n950, 16gb?	22:47
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, already answered	22:47
Noobmonk3y	lol	22:47
MohammadAG	it's called an eMMC	22:47
MohammadAG	not HDD...	22:48
Noobmonk3y	thankeeeeeeeeees	22:48
Noobmonk3y	meh	22:48
GeneralAntilles	16GB	22:48
Noobmonk3y	Thanks Gen	22:48
piggz	also, its 'how big is...' 'how bigs' doesnt even make sense ;)	22:49
MohammadAG	libhal-dev libprofile-dev libhildon1-dev libhildondesktop1-dev libhildonnotify-dev libdbus-1-dev	22:49
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MohammadAG	holmesII, you need those installed ^	22:49
Noobmonk3y	piggz... don't try to figure out what i mean, even i don't know.........	22:49
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Noobmonk3y	but realistically, i just can't type.......	22:49
piggz	:)	22:50
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xkr47	has anybody tried gphoto2 with usb host mode?	22:50
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xkr47	I would like to use my external camera for sending pics by email	22:50
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, I corrected your wiki page :P	22:50
MohammadAG	lots of 's and s mistakes	22:50
Noobmonk3y	dRN... I'M GONNA NEED A NEW F5 KEY SOON	22:50
MohammadAG	and I'd suggest using passive in the wiki	22:50
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG, all of it? you pressed delete?!	22:50
MohammadAG	I or we doesn't work there	22:50
xkr47	i.e. I guess the question is, does n900 usb host mode support libusb	22:50
xkr47	?	22:50
Noobmonk3y	Oh damn, now you are a grammar taecher lol	22:51
Noobmonk3y	teacher*	22:51
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, grammar nazi	22:51
holmesII	installed in N900 or where?	22:51
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Noobmonk3y	^^	22:51
RST38h	What is it about the F5 key?	22:51
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG, do you replace f5 keys too?	22:51
hiemanshu	Noobmonk3y: join the no F5 key club	22:51
Noobmonk3y	lol technically i think logging in / out is better then f5 in this case for some odd reason :P	22:52
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, I just took it out	22:52
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Noobmonk3y	almost time for the pub :) yay ... no more f5'nessnessness	22:52
Noobmonk3y	lol Mo	22:52
hiemanshu	Noobmonk3y: also, use ctrl + r instead :P	22:52
Noobmonk3y	hehehe	22:52
Noobmonk3y	i'm pretty near the bottom of that list, but someone right at the bottom has his ordered an on it's way :( Pooooooooo!	22:52
hiemanshu	Noobmonk3y: I am hoping to have mine tomorrow :D	22:53
Noobmonk3y	hiemanshu, been ordered?	22:53
hiemanshu	Noobmonk3y: nope, email :P	22:53
hiemanshu	Noobmonk3y: because I got my LP yest afternoon	22:53
Noobmonk3y	ahhh well when ordered, you will be able to track ;)	22:53
Noobmonk3y	i got mine yesterday too	22:54
Noobmonk3y	no email yet :( - and no device appearing :(	22:54
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holmesII	i am now using the VMWARE for scbox	22:55
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG, yours on it's way yet? (Or already had it for a while? ;) )	22:56
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timeless	GeneralAntilles: have you seen http://barefootandprogressive.blogspot.com/2010/07/wmlp-bingo.html	22:57
GeneralAntilles	timeless, "Teabagger" eh.	22:58
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Noobmonk3y	night night :) - pub!	22:58
RST38h	General: Also see http://www.leftycartoons.com/the-24-types-of-libertarian/	22:58
timeless	http://theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger	22:59
timeless	not my fault they're idiots :)	22:59
GeneralAntilles	timeless, mmmm	22:59
GeneralAntilles	I know a lot of people who would label themselves "Tea Party". They're far from idiots. :)	22:59
GeneralAntilles	Let's avoid the personal attacks, eh?	23:00
RST38h	General: and, to finish it off: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/Peter-Fenn/2011/02/02/tea-party-funding-koch-brothers-emerge-from-anonymity	23:00
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GeneralAntilles	Oh god	23:00
GeneralAntilles	Koch insanity.	23:01
RST38h	Idiots they may not be, but sellouts they definitely are...	23:01
GeneralAntilles	It's worse than Beck's idiocy with Soros.	23:01
timeless	GeneralAntilles: the ones who chose the name without first checking to see if it had a meaning are...	23:01
timeless	... idiots	23:01
timeless	nothing to do with others who might affiliate with its ideas	23:02
timeless	it's like the guys who decided to name a platform "MeeGo" without first discovering that it was in fact a failed tv show	23:02
GeneralAntilles	The fact that the mainstream media can get away with using an insult like that is a bit incredible, though.	23:02
timeless	it wasn't used initially as an insult	23:02
GeneralAntilles	Yes it was.	23:02
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timeless	and it was used by members of the party	23:02
timeless	did you read theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger ?	23:03
GeneralAntilles	It's been used by people who don't understand what it's a euphemism on.	23:03
timeless	yes, including older party members	23:03
timeless	only when they realized it did they realize that it wasn't a good thing to embrace	23:03
RST38h	BTW, you are fighting over wording rather than the essence of what these guys are	23:03
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, yes, this is rather pointless.	23:04
RST38h	Don't like "teabaggers"? Use "grassroot libertarians" or something	23:04
timeless	RST38h: GeneralAntilles objected to me collectively labeling them as idiots	23:04
GeneralAntilles	Well, except a lot of the movement isn't actually libertarian.	23:04
GeneralAntilles	Too much socon bullshit for that.	23:04
RST38h	timeless: that was bad, bad of you!	23:04
timeless	most of it is socon (wolf) masked in libertarian "sheep" clothing	23:04
holmesII	there are some packages that i can't install either in N900 or my sdk virtual machine.	23:04
timeless	btw, Social Conservative or Southern Conservative? :)	23:05
RST38h	same thing, no?	23:05
timeless	holmesII: are they arm-xx ?	23:05
GeneralAntilles	Not really.	23:05
RST38h	Well, one mostly observes lefties in the north	23:05
timeless	actually, that wouldn't make sense, since the n900 is arm...	23:05
MohammadAG	holmesII, read instructions on how to add nokia-binaries repo	23:05
timeless	holmesII: what packages?	23:05
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MohammadAG	~maemosdk	23:06
infobot	from memory, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	23:06
holmesII	libprofile-dev	23:06
holmesII	and i cant' install all the packages in my virtual machine image(desktop).	23:06
MySpaez	few people want software freedom or political freedom	23:07
timeless	holmesII: MohammadAG guessed right..	23:07
MySpaez	Maybe 10%?	23:07
RST38h	Few people understand what it entails.	23:07
piggz	timeless: i thought a teabagger was something very different!	23:08
MySpaez	more work :)	23:08
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timeless	piggz: it has two interesting meanings	23:08
timeless	one is interesting because it's hated by the other	23:08
piggz	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabag	23:08
timeless	and the second is interesting because it was carelessly adopted by a group which hated the former	23:08
piggz	or, use the free n900 urban dictionary app on ovi store	23:08
timeless	piggz: yeah, that's def:1	23:09
timeless	i was pointing to def:2	23:09
piggz	heh	23:09
timeless	which admitteldy had a shorter shelf life	23:09
MySpaez	how many N900s did nokia sell? Couldnt they sell approx as many n950 units?	23:09
timeless	s/ldy/dly/	23:09
infobot	timeless meant: which admittedly had a shorter shelf life	23:09
timeless	MySpaez: they can not sell remotely close	23:09
MySpaez	Did many non-linux people buy the N900?	23:10
MohammadAG	night	23:10
MySpaez	How many of you have N900s and do not want a N950?	23:11
MySpaez	Nite	23:11
timeless	MySpaez: the volumes of n900 were incredibly high for a device w/ relatively little marketing	23:11
timeless	however officially the volumes are a corporate secret	23:11
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MySpaez	Ok	23:11
timeless	the n950 is designed as a developer device	23:11
timeless	to be produced in incredibly small numbers	23:11
timeless	(at least as of the last info drop i had before leaving Nokia)	23:11
MySpaez	You recipients are lucky few	23:12
* timeless shrugs		23:12
MySpaez	What are you doing now timeless?	23:12
MySpaez	You are the browser guy?	23:12
MySpaez	Browsing made N900 famous	23:13
timeless	I work for RIM on Web Standards	23:13
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timeless	so basically I still work on browsers, but from a slightly more meta- level	23:13
jacekowski	timeless: i got a company blackberry	23:13
timeless	:)	23:13
jacekowski	timeless: and i don't understand what people like about them	23:13
timeless	jacekowski: which one do you have?	23:13
MySpaez	i am happy you are in a leadwrship position timeless	23:13
jacekowski	timeless: how do i check it	23:14
timeless	well, i don't know that i'd call it a leadership position	23:14
timeless	although technically my title does have 'Manager' in it ('Standards Manager')	23:14
jacekowski	timeless: and way you configure email on it is braindead as well	23:14
timeless	jacekowski: i installed the GMail java app on mine	23:14
timeless	it works as well or better than it did on the N88	23:15
timeless	s/88/8/	23:15
infobot	timeless meant: it works as well or better than it did on the N8	23:15
timeless	and since the N900 and friends don't come w/ Java, there's no comparison..	23:15
jacekowski	timeless: 8310	23:15
timeless	jacekowski: http://www.laptopmag.com/mobile-life/which-blackberry-is-right-for-you.aspx is what google suggested to me	23:15
jacekowski	timeless: my father had blackberry storm	23:16
jacekowski	timeless: and i didn't like it either	23:16
timeless	google says yours is a Curve	23:16
MySpaez	java still makes me wince	23:16
jacekowski	it didn't even had wifi	23:16
timeless	MySpaez: given the choice of having some apps that work	23:16
timeless	or relying on rare open source devs to try to port to a platform	23:16
timeless	i might seriously consider java	23:17
MySpaez	i see the point	23:17
timeless	note that Twitter is increasing its use of Java (server side)	23:17
holmesII	I got the meaning. I ignored some steps in the instructions.	23:17
MySpaez	oh server side is fine	23:17
holmesII	thank you to timeless and MohammadAG	23:17
jacekowski	timeless: and email sync is only one way	23:17
timeless	jacekowski: only one way?	23:17
MySpaez	MohammedAG you are a great community contributor	23:18
jacekowski	timeless: if i read email in my outlook it's not showing as read on the phone	23:18
timeless	jacekowski: for me it generally does	23:18
jacekowski	timeless: but if i read it on the phone it shows as read in outlook	23:18
timeless	if it doesn't, go to mail, tap the BB button, and select..."Reconcile Now"	23:18
jacekowski	it does sync emails	23:18
MySpaez	i use the e71 again since it lasts all day with music and podcasts	23:18
jacekowski	it's just not syncing read/unread statuses	23:19
timeless	jacekowski: this is w/ an Exchange server backend, right?	23:19
jacekowski	and it's not only mine	23:19
jacekowski	timeless: yes	23:19
timeless	because i was having <read> get a bit stale, and was told that's what I needed to do	23:19
timeless	and it seemed to work when i tried it	23:19
jacekowski	timeless: it's not only mine bb that does that	23:19
timeless	if it's consistently not working in your company's environment	23:19
jacekowski	timeless: and i've done factory reset when i got the phone	23:19
timeless	then it'd be good if you filed a ticket	23:19
timeless	of some sort, offhand, i'd hope it's a config error somewhere	23:20
timeless	because it definitely should work	23:20
jacekowski	timeless: it works fine with N900	23:20
timeless	and it definitely generally works for everyone here	23:20
DocScrutinizer	timeless: was it you who managed mxr ?	23:20
jacekowski	timeless: and everything else	23:20
timeless	DocScrutinizer: yeah	23:20
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timeless	DocScrutinizer: i need to get sp3000 to adopt it	23:20
timeless	i can't figure out if he's on vacation or what	23:20
DocScrutinizer	do you think mxr.maemo.org could use a harmattan branch?	23:20
timeless	DocScrutinizer: is this mxr.maemo or mxr.meego?	23:20
GeneralAntilles	timeless, isn't a phone easier?	23:21
timeless	GeneralAntilles: isn't a phone easier for what?	23:21
* timeless lost track of context		23:21
DocScrutinizer	is this really meego harmattan now? ;-D	23:21
timeless	DocScrutinizer: iirc there's an mxr.meego.com/maemo.gitorious.org/	23:21
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DocScrutinizer	:-o thanks	23:21
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timeless	if there's something else you want hosted on mxr.maemo.org, give me instructions and i'll see if i can get it on mxr.maemo.org at some point	23:21
GeneralAntilles	timeless, tracking down sp3000.	23:21
timeless	note that it'd have to be a Sunday	23:22
timeless	GeneralAntilles: Nokia had an international calling plan	23:22
timeless	sadly, I don't have that here	23:22
GeneralAntilles	Ah	23:22
pauly_	anyone want to trade their n8 for my n900	23:22
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pauly_	?	23:22
timeless	pauly_: hrm, i have an n8...	23:22
timeless	where are you	23:22
timeless	and why do you think you want it	23:22
pauly_	usa	23:22
timeless	(you almost certainly don't, it mostly sucks)	23:23
pauly_	12mp	23:23
timeless	you're ok w/ the bump @back for the camera?	23:23
timeless	usa is kinda large, which region?	23:23
pauly_	idk never held one	23:23
timeless	(i'm in Toronto)	23:23
pauly_	md	23:23
pauly_	near dc	23:23
timeless	near Rockville?	23:24
* timeless plays red-line games		23:24
DocScrutinizer	pauly_: tldya you'll find someone	23:24
pauly_	what color, how many gig	23:24
timeless	Silver, and i can't remember, it's an alarm clock @home	23:24
timeless	whatever was corporate issue @nokia ~6 months ago	23:24
pauly_	DocScrutinizer: thanks	23:25
timeless	fwiw, it has the NAm regional variant as opposed to some EU region	23:25
pauly_	well if its an alarm clock u wanna trade for a broken n900 instead lol	23:25
pauly_	i have two	23:25
timeless	i'd be much more interested in trading for a working n900..	23:25
pauly_	ya lol	23:26
pauly_	u say it sucks	23:26
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timeless	it's an alarm clock because i use a BlackBerry Torch and an n900	23:26
DocScrutinizer	pauly_: you say N900 sucks ;-P	23:26
pauly_	idk i like sinplicity	23:26
pauly_	lol	23:26
pauly_	true	23:26
timeless	(mostly the Torch actually)	23:26
timeless	at this point in time, i mostly need: Gmail, Gmaps, + Browser	23:27
pauly_	why dont u like n8?	23:27
DocScrutinizer	pauly_: timeless worked for Nokia until recently, his N8 is most probably OK	23:27
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timeless	and while the google maps web interfaces work, the java ones are better	23:27
timeless	pauly_: do you have facebook?	23:27
timeless	someone here should be able to find you a link for my n8 gallery	23:27
timeless	(it's in the channel logs too)	23:28
pauly_	thanks doc	23:28
pauly_	can i call u doc cause im lazy	23:28
DocScrutinizer	ME????	23:28
javispedro	hey, I'm Marty McFly doc.	23:29
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DocScrutinizer	I'm not even really here atm	23:29
javispedro	take me to the future doc!	23:29
javispedro	do I look cool or what?	23:29
javispedro	btw, evening.	23:29
pauly_	yes u	23:29
pauly_	ugh no but i gots twitter	23:29
pauly_	lol	23:29
timeless	not certain	23:30
timeless	pauly_: i think you can probably find a summary of my n8 notes in the channel logs	23:30
timeless	you can definitely get a nice view of them if you load the gallery	23:30
pauly_	timeless: wanna trade, i want something fresh and n8 seems fresh	23:30
timeless	sadly that's trapped in the Facebook walled Garden	23:30
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timeless	pauly_: if your n900 was working, i might consider it	23:30
pauly_	i barely use maemo org i only come in the irc chat	23:30
timeless	but it sounds like it is	23:30
pauly_	it does	23:30
pauly_	i have two	23:30
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, did you get a DHL number yet?	23:31
pauly_	im on mine now in the webchat	23:31
timeless	ah	23:31
timeless	hrm... maybe	23:31
timeless	how much of a hurry are you in?	23:31
pauly_	not really	23:31
pauly_	a hurry	23:31
pauly_	im just never sastisfied	23:31
timeless	i'll have family traveling up from your area sometime this summer..	23:31
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: nah, /me hopes tomorrow morning	23:32
pauly_	with any phone i have	23:32
pauly_	btw the proximity sensor on this isnt the best? its spotty	23:33
holmesII	one question to timeless/MohammadAG, you said i need to install all those packages. I can install those in scbox, however, when i tried install those in my terminal, i can't find it. So, did i miss something there? (all those I did in the SDK dekstop virtual machine, not in N900 yet)	23:33
*** trumee_ is now known as trumee		23:33
timeless	holmesII: installing the nokia repo doesn't install everything from the repo	23:34
timeless	it adds another repo from which you can get the other bits	23:34
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, ah, good, at least you haven't gotten one yet.	23:34
javispedro	wouldn't that be cool too? :D	23:34
pauly_	yay an n8	23:34
timeless	depending on what you've done, you could need to apt-get update or something	23:34
holmesII	yes. i follow the instruction and add the nokia repo, i can install the packages in my scbox. but i can't get some packages in my terminal	23:35
pauly_	ill probleby miss my n900 but its okay ill get the n9 or something else	23:35
* timeless wonders what's been announced about the n9		23:35
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timeless	oh right, they announced it doesn't have a keyboard	23:35
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pauly_	timeless: im so excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	23:36
timeless	pauly_: this isn't a promise	23:36
timeless	i kinda need to think about it	23:36
pauly_	timeless: i know	23:36
timeless	but i can probably send it down and let you play w/ it for a week or even a month	23:36
timeless	thankfully at this point i have 2 chances to see my folks	23:36
timeless	which means a swap can be arranged between the two meetings :)	23:37
GeneralAntilles	timeless, http://swipe.nokia.com	23:37
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pauly_	cool	23:37
pauly_	easier then shipping	23:37
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timeless	pauly_: the n8 comes w/ a mini-hdmi to hdmi adapter, but that's currently in a box in a warehouse somewhere here	23:38
timeless	and it's probably easier for you to grab one locally than have me include it	23:38
pauly_	timeless: no worries	23:38
pauly_	all i do is take pics surf craigslist and post pics on twitter	23:39
pauly_	so n8 should be nice	23:39
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timeless	surfing w/ the n8 is um...	23:41
timeless	not recommended	23:41
timeless	at least not w/ the native browser	23:41
timeless	You're encouraged to try Opera Mobile/Opera Mini	23:41
timeless	you might find those acceptable	23:41
timeless	also, there was a promised UI refresh for the n8 (afaiu), but afaict, it never arrived	23:42
pauly_	isnt it "the flagship"	23:42
timeless	Nokia and promises.... ....	23:42
javispedro	timeless: you mean the anna thing? last time it was scheduled for next month	23:42
pauly_	isnt it coming on the anna update?	23:42
timeless	javispedro: oh, it has a schedule?	23:42
timeless	interesting	23:43
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piggz	i wonder if there will be an anna update for my ageing 5800 :D	23:43
pauly_	ya and a new browser?	23:43
pauly_	lol	23:43
* timeless shrugs		23:43
timeless	they were working on a new browser all of last year	23:43
timeless	to be the company-wide browser	23:43
timeless	it didn't ship before the WP7 announcement (which includes IE)	23:43
trumee	timeless: you dont work for nokia anymore?	23:44
timeless	no idea if it's included in anna (I know nothing about anna)	23:44
timeless	trumee: correct	23:44
trumee	timeless: after elops fiasco?	23:44
timeless	trumee: actually, my writing was on the wall earlier	23:44
timeless	we lost a power struggle w/ the company-wide webkit browser in December	23:44
timeless	so I needed to find a new boat	23:44
timeless	i don't find elop's logic or reasoning bad	23:45
timeless	it may be unfortunate for certain teams	23:45
pauly_	anna	23:45
timeless	but he didn't have any better choices	23:45
pauly_	is hottt lol	23:45
trumee	timeless: nice read, http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/07/wanna-be-nokia-ceo-take-the-simple-quiz-to-see-if-youre-qualified.html	23:46
timeless	really, the maemo-meego group was screwed by others between the CEO and the maemo-meego management	23:46
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* timeless clicks		23:47
MySpaez	heh	23:47
GAN900	S'too bad	23:47
GAN900	I'm worried we wont have any reasonable options for mobile open source anytime soon.	23:47
MySpaez	Is N9 worse than N800?	23:48
GAN900	What?	23:48
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GAN900	Oh	23:48
GAN900	Um, no, after Nokia drops MeeGo.	23:48
timeless	MySpaez: if you require a hardware keyboard?	23:48
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MySpaez	I still have the stowaway	23:48
* timeless doesn't know if the n9 supports bluetooth keyboards		23:49
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GAN900	timeless, qgil says yes.	23:49
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trumee	MySpaez: i have a stowaway as well but i never liked it	23:50
trumee	MySpaez: The Fn keys and keyboard layout is weird	23:51
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MySpaez	trumee .. Limited alternatives	23:51
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pauly_	hello	23:55
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MySpaez	moo	23:56
timeless	trumee: interesting	23:56
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piggz	trumee: that quiz is hilarious	23:56
pauly_	timeless: your blog does not work :/	23:57
timeless	pauly_: ?	23:58
timeless	timeless.justdave.net/blog seems to work	23:58
timeless	is there something linking to viper?	23:58
pauly_	ya	23:58
timeless	if it's an infobot, please fix it	23:58
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pauly_	its from this http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Timeless	23:59
timeless	ah, that's a wiki, please feel free to update the link	23:59

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