IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-07-05

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Atarii`is there a way to lock the N900 when the keyboard is slide up or if the right toggle button is flicked (for display)?00:31
merlin1991Atarii`: power button -> lock screen and keyboard00:32
Atarii`is there a way to change functionality so it does that automatically?00:32
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javispedroRST38h: have you seen ?00:37
javispedroRST38h: seems that the Symbian guys are sharing some of their drugs with some koreans...00:37
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Atarii`is there a list of dbus scripts/functions anywhere?00:39
ShadowJKjavispedro, page 10 so far and it seems sane00:40
javispedroShadowJK: keep going00:40
javispedroShadowJK: though on page 10 there's already the "Because data cannot be directly accessed, it is impossible for data00:41
javispedroto become corrupted, or to crash the device through data corruption" pearl.00:41
alteregoWow, looks like they're ran out of N950s:
alteregothey've ...00:41
javispedroalterego: bummer, I guess I was right when I was saying there was only one N950.00:41
javispedro... and Jaffa got it ...00:42
alteregoHahah, yeah :)00:42
ShadowJKThe ownership policy bit I don't really understand, are they saying you can't have two pointers to same object?00:42
alteregoIt makes me think though, that how much priority we as ddp acceptees get, if any.00:42
javispedrowell, the one and only n950 owner got the maximum priority, the rest got zero.00:43
javispedroeasy :D00:43
alteregoOr whether they just go through the whole stack and we're probably at the end of the stack (as we're mostly non-launchpad loaners)00:43
ShadowJKThe fact that they have mutexes implies you can access an object created in thread 1 from thread 2. I don't think that was possible in symbian :-)00:44
alteregoOf course it's possible.00:45
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ShadowJKjavispedro, dunno, it seems relatively sane for a dumbbphone+1 platform00:48
ShadowJKmuch saner than symbian00:48
ShadowJKwhich is maybe dumbbphone+200:48
javispedrooh, that's for sure.00:48
javispedrobut some of the quotes make me puke00:48
ShadowJKThe stuff about data corruption being impossible stood out00:49
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RST38hjavispedro: TWO00:50
RST38hjavispedro: there are two guys on the list who have got their n950s00:50
RST38hShadowJK: Possible in Symbian, just not sure how predictable =)00:51
ShadowJKI'm sure it threw a descriptive error message, like "KERN-8" or whatever ;-(00:51
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GeneralAntillesMan, I figured we'd've had these things shipped out by Friday.00:54
RST38h(well, now, when you mentioned Symbian, I expect nightmares again)00:54
javispedroand then there's that finland meetup "laureates"00:54
hiemanshualterego: so we get no N950 :( :( :(00:54
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: I figured I'd win a million bucks in the lottery00:54
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alteregohiemanshu: neah, they've just got more requests than devices, which is pretty neat.00:55
javispedroRST38h: think about some other platform before actual sleep, like, Win32s.00:55
hiemanshualterego: yeah, I was expecting that, there are more geeks than devices :P00:55
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alteregohiemanshu: actually, I think it shows a commericial interest in the platform too.00:56
javispedroGeneralAntilles: I am going to predict there's no way the devices are shipped before _next_ friday.00:57
* hiemanshu shoots javispedro00:57
alteregoAll of these people (outside of sub programmes like had to already have a launchpad account and app/s published in Ovi00:57
hiemanshuJartza: dont jinx it00:57
javispedrothough you might start seeing launchpad applications approved tomorrow. one by one.00:57
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, oof.00:57
javispedrofifth batch first.00:57
GeneralAntillesThat'd be, unfortunate.00:57
alteregojavispedro: I think they'll ship by this friday00:57
GeneralAntillesBut given Elop's slow destruction of the company, probably expectable.00:58
javispedroallow me to emphatize the "slow" keyword.00:58
hiemanshushutdown -r now01:01
javispedroI can already envision an email telling us launchpad "applicants" that the three n950s are already sold out, but we should not worry, as they are going to ship us a newer and finer WP7 device.01:02
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hiemanshujavispedro: as long as that is flashable with meego CE I am fine :P01:03
javispedrothen get an htc..01:04
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hiemanshujavispedro: use android and then end up hanging myself?01:04
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javispedroor install meegoCE there.01:04
hiemanshuI'll hang myself before I even get there :P01:05
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DocScrutinizerF5 F5 F5 F501:13
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: cool down, go listen to some beatles01:14
DocScrutinizerdead kenedy's01:15
DocScrutinizereeeek my laptop beeps on shift-numlock01:17
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, I think you're still pretty much in the same boat as the rest of us.01:17
DocScrutinizerwith 2 different tones :-P01:17
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I feel worse, as I dunno what to lok for01:18
GeneralAntillesJaffa got an email.01:18
hiemanshuwell if DocScrutinizer is ahead of us, or leading us, we should be prepared to die01:18
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GeneralAntillesSo set up an email filter to sound klaxons when you get a subject line containing "N950"01:18
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: you get an email telling 'You have a N950 waiting for you'01:18
hiemanshuor something01:18
* DocScrutinizer checks mail01:19
GeneralAntillesI modified the script a bit to play Celebration.01:20
GeneralAntillesAs well as discoing the lights.01:20
hiemanshumine plays 'I feel good' :P01:20
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hiemanshuanyways I am off to sleep01:21
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I hope the voice input is trained to bring a coffee on each sigh, and a brandy on each swearword ;-D01:21
hiemanshuNight all01:21
DocScrutinizersudo make me a wodka on ice01:22
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GeneralAntillesI still want to put together a multi-room PA.01:23
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hiemanshuok, this is odd, apt-get install doesn't work - Handler failed silently, but upgrade works just fine01:29
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: now LaunchPad's going to get revenge on you because you found the way to bypassing the evil application system!01:32
DocScrutinizerAnd now I'm even supposed to follow *TWITTER*? To keep up to date with DDP?01:33
javispedroit could be facebook.01:33
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DocScrutinizerIf I'm ever going to use these loser services, you can expect me to be replaced by a poor imitation01:34
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Sicelohi everyone01:34
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Sicelomy n900 doesnt receive files via bt01:35
derfI thought the entire point of those services was to replace people with poor imitations.01:35
Sicelonewly-flashed.. and no apps installed. what checks would u suggest?01:35
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DocScrutinizernever tried that01:37
* DocScrutinizer muses over ps ax01:38
DocScrutinizer2033 user      3208 S    /usr/lib/obex/obexd --nodaemon --opp --ftp --pcsuite01:38
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DocScrutinizermight be related01:39
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DocScrutinizer  956 root      3408 S    /usr/sbin/bluetoothd -n01:40
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Sicelothanks DocScrutinizer. will check just now01:41
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Siceloi have both of those :/01:42
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DocScrutinizerdunno if "receiving files per bt" is meant to be supported ootb01:43
ShadowJKworks out of the box for me01:43
DocScrutinizerI gather you need BT profile obexftp01:43
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Siceloit should work.. it occurs to me that's why contacts synch isn't working via bt from my old phone01:44
ShadowJKthat's file browsing01:44
hiemanshuFinally quassel works on the phone01:44
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ShadowJKUm, contacts synch is entirely differnet topic from file sending.01:44
rafael2kpeople, does the N900 have an FPU?01:44
ShadowJKrafael2k, yes01:44
ShadowJKrafael2k, two in fact01:44
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ShadowJKVFP and Neon01:45
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ShadowJKx86 also has two, SSE* and x87 :)01:45
Siceloall kinds of sending i've tested fine.. but all types of receiving from any device fail01:45
ShadowJKSicelo, how do they fail?01:46
rafael2kbut to what FPU does the commom maths code created by gcc/libc go to?01:46
ShadowJKrafael2k, probably vfp?01:46
rafael2kgreat. I'll compile darkice (audio streamer) for the N900 and all encoder it uses make use of float math01:47
Siceloeg, my 9300i just crashes completely when sending to n900. the n900 just shows a blue bt icon briefly. i tested sending from the 9300i to my n-gage fine01:47
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ShadowJKrafael2k, you probably want to benchmark that stuff first, if it has both integer and float versions01:47
cehtehrafael2k: porting cinelerra to n900? :)01:48
rafael2kcehteh: ; )01:48
rafael2kcehteh: not yet01:48
rafael2kShadowJK: no integer version yet...01:48
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ShadowJKMy E75 doesn't crash when trying to send files via bluetooth01:49
ShadowJK(and neither do my N800, N810, N900(01:50
Siceloyay.. maybe i should send back the n900 :(01:50
DocScrutinizerI bet you should send back the 9300i01:51
rafael2kbut a simple video editor for the N900 would be interesting01:51
* Sicelo will try from a different device once more tomorrow01:51
GeneralAntillesN950! N950! N950!01:52
* GeneralAntilles looks around.01:52
ShadowJKgeneral rule: 9300i must not crash even if other devices would try to make it crash01:52
DocScrutinizer~trout GeneralAntilles01:52
* infobot slaps GeneralAntilles around a bit with a large trout!01:52
GeneralAntillesOK, it's not Beetlejuice.01:52
rafael2ksomething like avidemux could be adapted to run.01:52
hiemanshuGeneralantilles email?01:52
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, oh shut up :P01:53
DocScrutinizerI'm quite reluctant as I think we all will give the loaner back rather soon - and I for sure am not interested in N901:54
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: if you do that again I'll steal your N95001:54
DocScrutinizertechnically it's not his N95001:55
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, recall Nokia's past loans.01:55
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: hush hush :)01:55
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: never were from a limited resource01:55
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: au contraire, sometimes01:56
Dhraakellianso, when my n900 says that all telephony functions have been disabled, and I may need to reboot to reenable them, is there any way to get it to try again without rebooting?01:56
ShadowJKIt's bad enough that us normal people aren't going to be able to purchase an N900 upgrade, and that our N900s hw lifespan is likely short, and that our N900 warranty is most likely useless as Nokia is insisting now on replacing with useless crap like N8 instead of repairing.. must you additionally remind us of that SOME people will get upgrade "free" ;P01:57
Dhraakelliansome sort of service restart?01:57
DocScrutinizerDhraakellian: cycle flight mode01:57
DocScrutinizerDhraakellian: but honestly that sounds like you're in for an N801:58
* hiemanshu is off to sleep for real01:58
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: i doubt nokia will be asking for them back01:58
ShadowJKDhraakellian, iirc I played with cmt_* variables in /sys/....something.../gpio/.. cycling cmt_en,cmt_rst,cmt_rst_rq... iirc there was a sequence, and timing, that made cellmodem and stuff restart01:58
ieatlintand if they do, i suspect there will be a sudden rash of muggings01:58
Dhraakellianwell, I was getting this all the time a while back, and then I bent the sim card pins up slightly, which seemed to make the error stop for a while01:59
ShadowJKConditional on the disturnace causing cellmodem to crash/disconnect not occuring during that sequence or time after01:59
DocScrutinizerieatlint: you know there are worldwide locklists for IMEI01:59
ieatlinti don't, but i do know that the US carriers won't blacklist IMEIs02:00
ShadowJKYeah, when it happened to me, various tricks like that made the problem less worse for a few days02:00
ShadowJKUltimately the problem seems entirely unrelated to the actual simcard holder02:00
Dhraakellianit has been dropped a few times02:01
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DhraakellianI will admit that02:01
Dhraakellianand it's out of warranty02:01
Dhraakellian(and I got it used anyway)02:01
ShadowJKI had never dropped mine02:01
trx3 people droped mine..02:01
trxnow i only show it from my hands :)02:02
Dhraakellianif the n9 had a keyboard and µSD, I'd consider it02:02
* DocScrutinizer wonders if N900 has an EM issue in cmt02:02
Dhraakellianalthough µSD is less of a concern with 64GB internal02:02
trxDocScrutinizer EM?02:02
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Dhraakellianthat the unleaded solder thing?02:03
DocScrutinizernot really02:03
DocScrutinizerthat's more the thing that kills chips on overload, sloooowly02:03
DocScrutinizere.g. on OC02:03
trxlike, a buildup of electrons?02:03
DhraakellianI personally have never OCed my n90002:04
DocScrutinizer~wiki electromigration02:04
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{No footnotes|date=July 2010}} 'Electromigration' is the transport of material caused by the gradual movement of the ions in a conductor due to the momentum transfer between conducting electrons and diffusing metal atoms. The effect is important in applications where high direct current densities are used, such as in microelectronics and related structures. As the structure ...02:04
Dhraakellianbut, as I said, I got it used02:04
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, or desolder issue, as mine was 100% reliable when on a table, untouched. Any sort of pressure at the centre of main body, or light pressure on battery (with door open), reliably made cmt go away02:04
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javispedrofirst (or nth?) casualty of the harmattan vs meego confusion02:04
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: clearly poor soldering then02:05
ShadowJKit'd play netradio reliably sitting on table with keyboard open, and then music died when I pressed "h" :)02:06
ShadowJKnetradio over 3g of cours02:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: casualty? sounds sane to me02:07
javispedrooh, if you let him go ahead and download meego 1.2 sdk, he'll find that02:07
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javispedroa) there's no mention of harmattan anywhere02:07
javispedrob) the "meego qml components"  are not yet compatible with harmattan's02:08
javispedroc) he has no way to package any kind of harmattan .deb app02:08
javispedrod) proffit.02:08
DocScrutinizerso meego 1.2 is CE?02:08
ieatlintthere's a harmattan sdk02:08
javispedrothere's like two harmattan sdks.02:08
javispedroand none of them are the meego one.02:08
javispedroDocScrutinizer: CE is currently meego 1.2.sth, and will be 1.3 in the future, and so on.02:09
ieatlintand there's a whole set of harmattan-specific APIs02:09
DocScrutinizer~lart meego confusion02:09
* infobot holds meego confusion to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails02:09
DocScrutinizertry again!02:09
DocScrutinizer~lart meego confusion02:09
* infobot puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at meego confusion02:09
* infobot cooks <target> a succulent, tender, slightly moist steak02:10
merlin1991that'd been awesome02:10
DocScrutinizer~literal feed02:10
infobot"feed" is "<action> cooks <target> a succulent, tender, slightly moist steak"02:10
merlin1991but I think I was looking for02:10
DocScrutinizer~literal feed x02:10
* infobot belches loudly. Oup, 'begpardon.02:10
* infobot offers x some toe-jam02:10
DocScrutinizer~factinfo feed02:12
infobotfeed -- created by Shirik <> at Tue Mar  6 07:38:21 2007 (1581 days); it has been requested 12 times, last by merlin1991, 2m 11s ago.02:12
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DocScrutinizer~ literal cmd: feed (.*?)02:13
infobot"cmd: feed (.*?)" is "($1): <action>offers $1 some (herring|horseraddish|toe-jam|pizza)"02:13
DocScrutinizer~forget feed02:13
infobotDocScrutinizer: i forgot feed02:13
javispedroand this thread is TheDailyWTF worthy -- -- in fact, I am seriously considering submitting it..02:13
DocScrutinizer~feed x02:15
* infobot offers x some toe-jam02:15
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javispedro~feed the codez02:15
* infobot offers the some codez, accompanied by a candle lit table overlooking the's favorite locaton. With music and waiters poised to leap to any of the's wishes.02:15
javispedro#feed developer codez02:15
javispedro~feed developer codez02:15
* infobot offers developer some codez, accompanied by a candle lit table overlooking developer's favorite locaton. With music and waiters poised to leap to any of developer's wishes.02:15
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Dhraakellian~feed code monkeys caffeine02:16
* infobot Takes caffeine, hands it to a profesional 5 star restaurant staff, who expertly shove caffeine down code monkeys's throat then throws code monkeys out into the back alley with the rest of the trash.02:16
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DocScrutinizerhah, ibot superpowaz, made her forget a 4 year old factoid02:19
infobotwelcome, doc!02:20
javispedro"the bug has fixed" as commit message02:20
* javispedro commits murder02:20
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DocScrutinizer"when you reads this, the commit went thru"02:21
javispedroI need one of those cat pictures saying something along the lines of "I'm here reverting your commits"02:21
* DocScrutinizer hands javispedro CHEEZBURGA02:22
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javispedroALL OUR N950 ARE BELONG TO ..... hmm02:23
javispedroNOT US!02:23
* Dhraakellian never quite figured out exactly what NFC does02:24
* Dhraakellian should probably look around more02:24
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, nfc is No Fucking Clue02:24
DocScrutinizernfc is a sort of rfid barcode labels02:25
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ieatlinti want a cheeseburger02:27
ieatlintand yeah, nfc is like qrcodes, but without struggling to get your phone's camera to focus with the right light/angle02:28
ieatlintand then a few extra random features... like nokia makes bluetooth headsets with nfc -- hold it to the phone, and the phone pairs with it02:29
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nox-isnt nfc vulnerable to ppl pointing at your phone from further away with a `big' antenna?02:30
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Termanagood morning02:33
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nox-(its also used (planned?) for paying public transport fares etc...)02:34
ieatlintit may be vulnerable to that02:35
ieatlintand rfid cards that are nfc-compliant are used for public transit in many cities (amsterdam, london, san francisco)02:35
ieatlintand phones are capable of imitating those cards... but i don't know of a system that allows that presently02:36
ieatlint(but there are ones for emulating mastercard credit cards)02:36
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GeneralAntillesGet 'em while they're hot:
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DocScrutinizer\o/ another NOKLA phone02:46
GeneralAntillesIt's 1st-gen iPod thick.02:46
DocScrutinizeralways the same dual sim chipset02:48
ieatlintalmost worth the 62EUR02:49
DocScrutinizerwell, 64$ - seems a fair deal no matter how crappy the thing02:49
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DocScrutinizer5.0MegaPiexls (SIC!)02:52
DocScrutinizer""Designed in Finland"" MUHAHAHA02:52
cehtehhey the look is nice with the folding keyboard ..02:54
cehtehalso the price is ok02:54
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cehtehbut the rest is crap :D02:55
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cehtehSupport TF card extend to 4GB max02:55
cehtehwtf is a TF card?02:55
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cehtehTotally Fucked Card?02:56
ieatlintit's an e7 knock-off02:56
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, the Chinese rented some rack space in a Finnish data center and VNCed in?02:56
cehtehDual cameras/2.0 Mega pixel camera for Picture & Video capability02:56
cehtehhaha .. Piexels != Pixels02:57
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DocScrutinizerhey, comes with TWO 2Ah-batteries!02:57
trxyeah right :)02:57
ds3piexels might be tasty02:57
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cehtehhaha listen to that flash video on that side02:58
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trx"·Alarm clock:5 groups, support alarm clock when machine’s closed, can set from Monday to Sunday"02:59
trxwow, monday to sunday02:59
trxthis is some advanced technology02:59
ieatlintthe n900 knock off was also pretty entertaining02:59
GeneralAntillesI'd love to meet the creators of these devices.02:59
GeneralAntillesI wonder if they approach their jobs seriously.03:00
ieatlintif i had more disposable income, i'd buy this03:00
cehteh2batteries (2000mAh) .... means 1000mAh each03:00
ieatlintand next time i go to nokia, i'd bring it as my phone03:00
cehtehi wonder if one of this chinese crap manufacturers could just blow all his OS sources into the web03:02
cehtehthat would be appealing03:02
DocScrutinizerrelated: NCKiA C3  *yeah*03:03
cehtehwell technically prolly only one OS and HW design exists for this phones and they only adapt the cases :P03:03
cehtehWeight:500.000 (g)03:03
cehtehbit heavy :P03:03
cehteh(even if they mean only 500gramms)03:04
DocScrutinizerway dwn they say 132g03:05
cehtehhehe ok03:05
DocScrutinizer500 is the box I guess03:05
cehtehdo this phones actually work?03:05
DocScrutinizerwell, by any definition of work they *may*03:05
cehtehi mean can you expect that the OS crashes every few hours? .. or do european providers blacklist badly implemented/unlicensed stacks?03:06
DocScrutinizerthough the video shows phone requesting "insert SIM" while obviously he did ;-P03:06
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DocScrutinizerthese are all based on a tested and probably working chipset that comes with a cheap symbian or whatever03:07
cehtehawesome design ..03:07
cehtehyou think thats symbian?03:07
cehtehhehe i want this HANMAC ... looks like a digital watch from the end of the 70's became a smartphone :P03:08
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Dhraakelliancehteh: you hold it like the klingon communicator in Star Trek III03:11
DocScrutinizerNOKLA and NCKIA, they are really clever, those Chinese ;-D03:11
Dhraakellianwestern union payment?03:11
cehtehsupport incoming call with big head sticker03:11
Dhraakelliangotta be legit03:11
cehtehwtf .. haha03:11
cehtehLithium Batteries:6800mAh03:12
cehtehhey i want that in my n90003:12
DocScrutinizerno you don't ;-P03:12
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DhraakellianWhat's not to like about 6.8 amp-hours?03:13
cehteh Piexs: 240×320px03:13
cehtehdo they use a permutation generator for producing the translations?03:13
DocScrutinizernah, for producing the phones03:13
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DocScrutinizereven while it's not mentioned in this ad, I seem to recall the chipset has 64MB03:14
cehtehhey ... like nokia!03:14
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cehteh  with real android?03:16
DocScrutinizerno way, the chipset doesn't allow03:17
Dhraakelliancehteh: no, it's a fake fake person03:17
cehtehhaha girl-phone category .. phones with one button and so on :)03:18
cehtehok closing that page ..03:19
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe03:19
DocScrutinizerIMEI:3556***857    IMEI:3556***865  WTF?!03:21
cehtehcome on IMEI's are expensive you didnt expect them to be unique?03:21
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Termana---> <cehteh> haha girl-phone category .. phones with one button and so on :)03:22
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GAN900Every weird person in the city has to come and fill up the neighborhood to see the fireworks.03:24
DocScrutinizerthe "android" phone comes with >>Analog tv free<< and telescope antenna03:24
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GAN900Lotta bad drivers.03:24
DocScrutinizertoo bad here's no more analog TV at all :-P03:25
cehtehDocScrutinizer: one of the n900 had a telescope antenna too03:25
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DocScrutinizerwhen I was in a shopee nearby, asking for a holster for my N900, another dude can in with a N900 NOKLA and asked for repair X-P03:27
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: when I was in a shopee nearby, asking for a holster for my N900, another dude came in with a N900 NOKLA and asked for repair X-P03:28
DibblahFor some reason, there's not many fireworks over here. Can't think why.03:28
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DocScrutinizerDibblah: eh?03:29
DibblahNot many people round here celebrate July 4th...?03:29
GAN900Somebody really needs to connect XChat with libconic03:29
DocScrutinizermeanwhile: treasure worth maybe 15 billion € found in an indian temple, now guarded by 100 policemen03:30
DocScrutinizerI wonder how many rogue Presidents consider sending a company of soldiers03:31
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GAN900Tough to fence03:31
GAN900If you're a rogue president you're better off rining the IMF.03:32
DocScrutinizermy dict fails03:32
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DocScrutinizerand what's IMF03:33
GAN900International Monetary Fund03:33
GAN900and dict fails on what?03:33
DocScrutinizer~dict rining03:33
infobotcould not find definition for rining03:33
GAN900Ah, oops03:34
nox-you had me wondering as well :)03:34
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GAN900What is up with musicians putting sirens in their mixes.03:35
GAN900Public safety hazard.03:36
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*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Source: | Chanlog: | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED"03:38
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FIQjust wonder, whose idea was it to do a "Connections" section in "Phone" part of settings, AND a Connections part?04:10
FIQthat is seperate of phone04:11
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DocScrutinizerFIQ: a "Connections" section in "Phone" ?04:29
DocScrutinizerFIQ: It's for sure a bit strange to have the data counters in "Phone", but I can't spot any "Connections" section in "Phone" of settings04:30
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jonwil ~seen MohammadAG05:17
infobotmohammadag <~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7h 38m 49s ago, saying: 'noobmonk3y, working apparently :P'.05:17
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Parsleei see seas of meat05:37
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Parsleevermicious knids06:42
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Parsleeturn off the tv forever07:16
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hiemanshuMorning everyone07:46
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jonwilok, since turning the mce source code for MeeGo or Harmattan into code that matches Fremantle is impossible, time to go back to the other project I am working on and write some complete documentation on how to write a new tklock systemui plugin08:15
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slonopotamusanyone successfully booted openwrt kernel on n8x0? for some reason it hangs after mounting root partition and freeing unused memory (init is supposed to be started just after it)08:20
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crashanddieslonopotamus, topic?09:03
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slonopotamus_crashanddie: that's maemo init :P09:09
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crashanddie"PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED"09:09
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MohammadAGI thought it also said stay clear of shit09:11
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jonwilhi MohammadAG09:15
MohammadAGhey jonwil09:16
jonwilThe work to turn the MeeGo and Harmattan mce code into usable Fremantle mce code was a bust09:17
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jonwilbecause of too many changes in powerkey and devlock09:17
MohammadAGwhy? what would break?09:18
jonwilwell MeeGo mce code has no devlock code at all09:18
MohammadAGwhat's devlock?09:19
jonwildevice lock I believe09:19
MohammadAGcan't it be implemented manually?09:20
jonwilno, not really09:20
MohammadAGIt's just a dialog that compares the code enter with cal's lock-code value09:20
MohammadAGwith some dbus calls09:20
jonwilIts not that simple from what I can tell09:20
jonwilbut even given that, there are too many differences in the powerkey code to get something that works on Fremantle without breaking stuff09:20
jonwiland in the tklock code09:20
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jonwilthe devlock code for example installes handlers to 5 different datapipes (whatever those are) as well as at least 2 dbus handlers09:25
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jonwilI do plan to see which of the mce modules/plugins I can come up with usable code for though09:27
jonwilBut right now I am about to make a mailing list post giving all the details you need to replace the tklock systemui plugin09:27
jonwiltoucscreen/key lock09:28
jonwilits the slide-to-unlock screen among other things09:28
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jonwiland since MohammadAG is working on a new lockscreen, being able to replace the stock lockscreen instead of simply sitting on top of it seems like a useful goal09:33
Robot101remember the lock screen can also initiate emergency calls09:34
robbiethe1stI'd aim for it to be able to make either A, emergency calls, B, calls to contacts, or C, calls to all from there.09:35
jonwilThat code (whatever it might be) is an implementation detail of the lockscreen itself. Should the stock lockscreen make any dbus calls or other special API calls, those calls will be documented09:35
robbiethe1stdepending on settingsd09:35
jonwilAnything else not handled by the lockscreen may be handled by mce09:36
jonwilsuch as alarm related code09:36
jonwilbtw, we are talking about the swipe/to/unlock screen here, not the enter-a-code device lock09:36
jonwilwhich is different code altogether09:36
Robot101oh ok - right09:37
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jonwilIf MohammadAG or anyone else wants me to reverse engineer the enter-a-code lock logic, I will do that later09:37
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JaffaMorning, all10:15
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jonwilI think I am finally beginning to understand the mysteries of the universe. Or at least of the Maemo tklock ui code :)10:44
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RST38hjonwil: Be careful: if you find out too much and start talking about it, the agents of the world government will come in a white van and take you away to the mental institution!10:58
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macmaNdebugging code written on the wall of institution with an imaginary pencil is probably difficult11:17
macmaNis it me or does n950 battery go down really fast just idling overnight11:17
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X-FademacmaN: I never check overnight as I charge at night.11:24
X-FadeBut during the day I have plenty left.11:24
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macmaNright, just seems a bit uncomfortable with getting n900 finally last like 3 full days or so11:25
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VenemomacmaN, always keep the N900 on charger while you sleep, and in offline mode. then at the morning when you wake up, plug the charger out and in again11:28
Venemoby the time you depart, it will be full11:28
macmaNn950 you mean or...?11:28
macmaNi dont have an issue with n900 :>11:29
VenemomacmaN, I thought we're talking N90011:29
macmaNno, just comparing11:29
Venemoyou meant your N950... ehh.11:29
* Venemo is envious :)11:29
kerio<macmaN> ooh look at me i'm so cool i can complain about a very exclusive phone for developers11:29
kerioi hate you so much right now11:29
macmaNright this hate is just spreading too, im getting attacked on tmo even :>11:29
kerioalso try to install powertop or something like that11:30
kerioperhaps you have something draining your battery11:30
macmaNit does have some energy profiler app built in11:30
Venemomaybe it's just a bug11:32
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VenemomacmaN, btw, congrats for your N95011:36
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[DarkGUNMAN]aye.. lucky bugger11:36
Termanakerio, your not a little... butthurt are you?11:37
keriowhy would you think so11:37
Termana<kerio> <macmaN> ooh look at me i'm so cool i can complain about a very exclusive phone for developers11:37
kerioi was sarcastic11:37
kerioi'm absolutely butthurt11:38
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macmaNthis thing really is tha shiznit11:38
macmaNso no wonder11:38
macmaNhonestly, swipe just redefined how these stupid devices are supposed to be used11:38
keriowhat does it do?11:38
macmaNall of them, android ios etc blah11:39
MrRaggahi, i am looking for a similar frontend to promote packages like ? is it a plugin within Midgard CMS or a self written frontend?11:39
Termanakerio, it makes phone calls?11:39
kerioi was talking about swype11:39
Termanaoh. It's not swype, it's swipe11:40
keriooh ok11:40
X-FadeMrRagga: It is a midcom component.11:40
macmaNim just talking about the gesture in general, who cares what the trademark is called11:40
kerionot the keyboard then11:40
macmaNjust the way how it matches with human cognition11:40
MrRaggaX-Fade: so a component within the cms system? if i install midgard i can test it myself?11:41
X-FadeMrRagga: Yes.11:41
macmaNwith re app and context switching. definitely shows that nokia does have a few bright sports either in house or the people in companies they work with.11:41
MrRaggaX-Fade: thanks11:41
macmaNi havent found out yet who has originally come up with the whole concept11:41
X-FademacmaN: It is very geared towards maemo of course.11:41
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Termanawell well well what do we have here?11:47
TermanaSomeone using a nickname they have never used before. But they are using a certain country provider and real name that tells everyone who they are! :p11:48
TermanaOr one big coincidence11:49
keriocome on, there could be more than one joerg in germany11:50
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hiemanshuI know 3 joergs in germany :P11:55
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keriohiemanshu: do they use t-dialin?12:08
hiemanshukerio: hah, never checked :P12:09
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MrRaggaX-Fade: what is the name of the component?12:23
X-FadeMrRagga: org_maemo_packages12:23
MrRaggaX-Fade: thanks12:24
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X-FadeMrRagga: Very obvious name, isn't it? :)12:24
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MrRaggaX-Fade: indeed ;)12:27
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* lardman checks emails....12:28
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* lardman experiences disappointment12:28
alteregoIs it me or are the meego forums going epically slow?12:29
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robbiethe1stSo has *anyone* gotten an email from the meego devkit device program?12:30
robbiethe1stwell, the n950 one anyway12:30
alteregoI'm sure we'd know as soon as someone has ;)12:31
robbiethe1st:p, so that means the few who *do* have them got them through other methods12:31
alteregoNot entirely, but yes.12:32
robbiethe1stthat's actually decent news.12:32
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macmaNmkay, battery drain is actually mentioned in w22 image release notes12:35
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MohammadAGany launchpad confirmations yet? :P12:55
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: its only tuesday :P13:13
lardmanhmm, I hope someone's told the Launchpad guys that we expect the emails on Wed in that case ;)13:14
MohammadAGI'm expecting the device to spend 4 days in customs13:16
obcecadoMohammadAG: thanks for the sociality client, seems to work pretty well :-]13:18
* lardman wonders what laptops play nicely with Linux, or rather which don't13:19
jonwilMohammadAG, I posted a data dump to the mailing list with all the info that is related to the tklock systemui plugin13:19
MohammadAGyou're welcome obcecado13:19
MohammadAGI should update it though13:19
jonwilIn theory it should be enough information to replace it completly13:19
MohammadAGjonwil, cool :)13:20
jonwilI hope it helps you out13:21
jonwilin your lockscreen work13:21
jonwiland if you have any questions or need me to do any further reverse engineering, let me know13:21
jonwillet me know if you need me to figure out what the devlock stuff does also13:21
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alteregoMohammadAG: looks like we can blow harmattan home right open with qml ..13:22
alteregoCan't wait to get one to do some mods.13:23
MohammadAGalterego, err what?13:23
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alteregoHarmattan home looks to be qml based, so should hopefully be quite easy to create extra home views (like widgets)13:24
jonwilSame goes for anyone else, anything you want me to reverse engineer or dig into, let me know and I will see what I can do :P13:24
Hurrianhmm, is the harmattan ui open source, like fremantle-hildon-desktop?13:24
alteregoHurrian: not really no, some parts of it are but the main UX code is not.13:24
lardmanjonwil: thanks for the email13:25
Hurrianso, if the n900 bombs out on the thumb-2 instructions for harmattan, there's no way we're getting a full port13:25
jonwilI hope that data dump is actually understandable to anyone but me...13:25
jonwilSounds like Harmattan goes BACKWARDS as far as whats open and not open goes :(13:26
Hurrianon a side note, damn apt-worker.real13:26
Hurriani mean, 78% CPU13:26
lardmanlol, yes indeed13:26
Hurrianyou have got to be kidding me13:26
Hurrianhas nokia heard of apt-get?13:26
robbiethe1stCan't you just disablwe it?13:27
Hurrianuhh, lets see here, auto-update interval13:27
Hurriannext update : after universe's chill death13:28
robbiethe1stOh, yea. I did that on my N900. set it to 1 year13:28
robbiethe1stit'll never do it, because you'll manually update more than that13:28
Hurrianwhich reminds me, i'll need to redo my ext4 /home13:29
ruskiehmm I need to disable that auto update crap13:29
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Hurriani'll probably wait for power48 with the anti-ext4-corruption patch13:29
ruskiewhat corruption patch?13:29
Hurrianask tigerite13:30
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MohammadAGjonwil, just read the email, nice :)13:31
MohammadAGare you sure "silent" isn't about HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB?13:32
MohammadAGI ran xprop on the default lockscreen and that atom was set13:32
MohammadAGit blocks banners/notifications etc13:32
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MohammadAGalso, TKLOCK_ENABLE_VISUAL doesn't send the signal unlocked, just the one for display = on13:33
jonwilok, well something is sending unlocked13:33
jonwilmust be the other TKLOCK_blah13:33
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HurrianMohammadAG , working on the lockscreen?13:33
jonwilwhatever that is13:33
MohammadAGin that mode, tactile feedback isn't on13:33
MohammadAGI already made a lockscreen, but it overlays the old one13:34
jonwilwill this lockscreen be open source?13:34
MohammadAGjonwil, that's what HILDON_STACKING_LAYER IS FOR13:34
MohammadAG iirc13:35
MohammadAGa higher stacking layer means hildon will show it on top13:35
MohammadAGthe call dialog is layer 9 or 10, slide to answer is that +1 so it overlays it13:35
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MohammadAGHILDON_WM_ACTION_NO_TRANSITIONS disables transitions, the lockscreen is a dialog shown fullscreen and not a window, so if transitions are enabled it slides downwards (which is a nice effect, but Nokia decided to take it out in PR1.1)13:37
HurrianMAG, i like the transition ;)13:38
jonwilregarding silent, I can confirm that the code I have for both Diablo and MeeGo says "@param silent TRUE to disable infoprints, FALSE to enable infoprints"13:38
jonwilAs for HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB, the only places I see that reference it are hildon-desktop.launch,, tscalibrate and volume_status_menu_item.so13:39
MohammadAGHurrian, me too, that's why I kept it ;)13:39
jonwilall except the last one are open source IIRC13:39
MohammadAGjonwil, that atom hides all notifications except battery low13:39 uses it so the volume bar doesn't show while you're using the volume keys with the status menu open13:40
jonwilok, so anything else you need me to reverse engineer at this point?13:40
jonwilor to investigate?13:40
MohammadAGthat's kinda retarded, since that's why the status menu closes before an IM arrives, so the flag is no longer valid13:40
Venemo_N900anyone received an email from launchpad yet?13:41
DocScrutinizerTermana: what's up?13:41
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, all of us, except you13:41
MohammadAGjonwil, I think that's about enough info13:41
jonwilok, great13:42
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jonwilSo now you can make a complete replacement for libsystemuiplugin_tklock.so13:42
jonwilwhich is how it should be done (rather than overlaying the default lockscreen)13:43
jonwilDo you need me to figure out the devlock (device lock) stuff?13:43
MohammadAGno need, but my C skills are meh at best13:43
Venemo_N900MohammadAG, srsly?13:43
DocScrutinizerkerio: hiemanshu: eh? joerg?13:44
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, of course... not13:44
Venemo_N900MohammadAG, ?13:44
Venemo_N900ah, ok.13:44
Venemo_N900I understand :P13:44
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, I was messing around, no one got anything13:44
MohammadAGbesides Jaffa13:44
jonwilok, so I wont bother reverse engineering the device lock bits then13:45
jonwilOk, so if I am going to reverse engineer some mce plugins, which plugin(s) should I focus on?13:45
jonwilWhich ones would be usefull to have as open source?13:45
MohammadAGthere are some open source ones afaik13:46
MohammadAGin MeeGo's repo13:46
lardmanjonwil: did you find that accidentally released code?13:46
jonwilyep, I found the Diablo MCE code13:46
Venemo_N900MohammadAG, I'm starting to get worried13:46
jonwildidnt help all that much13:46
jonwilas the N900 and N8x0 are so diffrerent13:47
jonwilyeah the MeeGo mce codebase has some meego mce plugins13:48
jonwilBut what I am trying to find out is which maemo MCE plugins I should clone (using the meego MCE plugin code as a guide and reference and then matching that code back to the Fremantle binaries)13:49
jonwilwe have,,,,,,,,,,,, and libvibrator.so13:50
jonwilwhich of those sound like they would be worth being able to recompile and replace on Fremantle?13:50
* SpeedEvil thinks he'd need to do way more research.13:52
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DocScrutinizer2~lart Termana13:58
* infobot whacks Termana with a giant beaver's tail13:58
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lardmanJaffa: does the N950 support channel bonding in 802.11n wireless connections?13:58
MohammadAGjonne, I'd guess libdisplay13:58
MohammadAGlibcallstate does some annoying things too13:58
MohammadAGI mean, I'd rather have touch disabled than the whole display off when a call is active13:59
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MohammadAGJaffa, when clicking the power button on the N950, do you get a menu or does it simply lock the device?14:03
macmaNits actually quite convenient14:03
jonwilIIRC someone said they wanted to do things for brightness, maybe I should do that too14:03
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alteregoDoes the N950 have dedicated camera button?14:04
jonwilvibrator too14:04
macmaNno it doesnt14:04
macmaNapp launched14:04
jonwilI might just go ahead and do all of them where possible :)14:04
macmaNfor me it seems like having the camera app in task switcher makes me feel the best14:04
macmaNon standby14:04
alteregoharmattan: quickest launch to picture, but you have to find the icon first.14:04
macmaNlol true14:04
alteregowas thinking that14:05
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macmaNbut since you currently cant close apps at all with downswipe14:05
alteregoI want a recent "media" view in home14:05
macmaNi guess thats why i dont want to be bothered with relaunching all the time14:05
alteregoThink I might mod one14:05
alteregocamerad is always running anyway :)14:06
alteregoIt's prestarted14:06
macmaNyeah. just a mental thing.14:06
alteregocameraui even14:06
MohammadAGmacmaN, can you comfortably press two hardware buttons at the same time?14:06
MohammadAGlike power + volume14:07
macmaNwith one hand or how or what?14:07
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MohammadAGhaving a shortcut to the camera is useful14:07
DocScrutinizer~seen Termana14:09
infobottermana is currently on #htc-linux (11h 36m 55s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 2h 19m 48s, last said: 'Or one big coincidence'.14:09
alteregoYou know what else I'd like to see modded? Using bluetooth or headset remote to take a picture.14:09
alteregoThat would make having a tripod awesome ..14:09
DocScrutinizer~seen hiemanshu14:10
infobothiemanshu is currently on #kde (9d 8h 8m 22s). Has said a total of 865 messages. Is idling for 57m 32s, last said: 'MohammadAG: its only tuesday :P'.14:10
DocScrutinizer~seen DocScrutinizer5114:11
infobotdocscrutinizer51 is currently on #openmoko (5d 13h 14m 4s) #openmoko-cdevel (5d 13h 14m 4s). Has said a total of 9 messages. Is idling for 1d 5h 7m 4s, last said: 'moin auch'.14:11
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MohammadAGalterego, you already have a tripod for the N9?14:11
robbiethe1stcrashed it!14:12
RST38hNot a tripod. A pedestal!14:12
alteregoBut I'd make one if I did :)14:12
nicofsCan someone help me get my contacts from phone to conversations to send sms...?14:12
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!14:12
macmaNi ordered this for the n90014:13
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macmaNMohammadAG: yeah those buttons are quite close, i can see a shortcut thing workingthere14:13
macmaNyou can press them with one hand too14:13
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DocScrutinizer~seen DocScrutinizer5114:14
infobotdocscrutinizer51 is currently on #maemo #openmoko-cdevel #openmoko, last said: 'moin auch'.14:14
alteregoNice N9 review:
DocScrutinizer~seen Termana14:14
infobottermana is currently on #htc-linux #maemo, last said: 'Or one big coincidence'.14:14
MohammadAGwhat about <DocScrutinizer> ~+chaninfo :P14:15
infobotI'm on 26 channels: #debian/1084, #maemo/367, #kde/328, #openmoko/104, #htc-linux/82, #openmoko-cdevel/77, #slug/44, #/26, #debianppc/20,, ##guleague/14, #elive/10, #debian-bots/9, ##essy/9, #debian-france/8, #openslug/6, #linuxpakistan/4, #wowroster/4, #lugwv/3, ##pxe/3, ##bz-inc/3, ##bspress/2, ##ols/2, ##icf/2, #palmchat/114:15
infoboti've cached 2229 users, 1981 unique users, distributed over 26 channels.14:15
DocScrutinizerjoining in a throttled way14:16
infobotI'm on 29 channels: #debian/1088, #maemo/367, #kde/328, #openmoko/104, #htc-linux/82, #openmoko-cdevel/77, #slug/44, #/26, #debianppc/20,, ##guleague/14, ##ducleague/11, #elive/10, #debian-bots/9, ##essy/9, #debian-france/8, #openslug/6, #linuxpakistan/4, #wowroster/4, #lugwv/3, ##pxe/3, ##bz-inc/3, #arm-netbook/2, ##bspress/2, ##t42/2, ##ols/2, ##icf/2, #palmchat/114:16
infoboti've cached 2248 users, 1988 unique users, distributed over 29 channels.14:16
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nicofsI just want to send an sms with my n900 but somehow i don't have any contacts to send it to... what can i do about that?14:17
Corsac“a solid email client” aha14:17
Corsacnot exactly the pov of Jaffa14:17
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I still wonder what's the fuss about >>ast said: 'Or one big coincidence'.<<14:21
DocScrutinizersomebody stole my nick or what?14:21
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-05 10:51:49] [CTCP] Versionsanfrage von Termana empfangen.14:21
nicofsPlease guys... someone must have at some point used his device to send an sms...14:24
psycho_oreosusing contacts of course14:25
nicofsif i choose someone from contacts i can either skype or phone... i want sms...14:25
nicofsif i choose conversations -> new sms i don't have any contacts...14:26
Shapeshifternicofs: sounds broken14:26
psycho_oreoshave you actually tried entering the number for the person you want to sms to?14:26
psycho_oreosI mean I don't understand what your problem is to be frank14:27
nicofspsycho_oreos, if i type in a number the sms gets there - but that's not a solution...14:27
nicofsi can't memorize every number from my contact list...14:27
MohammadAGnicofs, can you check if you have SMS disabled for phones?14:27
psycho_oreosnicofs, so you used to have people in your contacts but now they're all gone?14:27
MohammadAGit might be picking up all numbers as phones for some reason14:27
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, he has his contacts set up right, but without an SMS button14:27
nicofspsycho_oreos, i have a full contact list - but the sms app can't access it, i guess14:28
lardmannicofs: see MohammadAG's comment14:28
MohammadAGContacts -> SEttings -> Display SMS only for Mobile numbers14:28
nicofsMohammadAG, how can i do that?14:28
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, oh14:28
lardmanor just set the contacts' phone numbers to the correct type14:29
nicofsMohammadAG, that did the trick... thanks a lot14:29
ShapeshifterI'm bored. What fun thing can I do with the n900?14:29
ShapeshifterI've got like an hour to waste14:29
ShapeshifterI'd rather not14:30
psycho_oreosI personally wouldn't too :)14:30
lardmanyou could do it programmatically14:30
lardmanin fact it's a shame the contacts app doesn't do it for you by recognising the numbers14:31
psycho_oreosprice of smashed phone= ~$600, price of replacing broken (and now longer easily obtained N900)= priceless :)14:31
DocScrutinizernicofs: your SMS service plugin for contacts is messed up or gone (wild handwaving, had same for VoIP)14:31
psycho_oreoss/now/now\ no/14:31
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: price of smashed phone= ~$600, price of replacing broken (and now\ no longer easily obtained N900)= priceless :)14:31
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DocScrutinizernicofs: or what MohammadAG said14:32
psycho_oreos*rolls eyes* my quote was full of fails lol, ah well14:32
psycho_oreosShapeshifter, improve scripts? ;)14:32
DocScrutinizerlardman: ++14:33
ShapeshifterI could fix that bug in alarmed14:34
Shapeshiftermh, but the latest source in on my laptop.14:34
DocScrutinizerlardman: indeed a PITA14:34
* Shapeshifter turns on computers at home14:34
* lardman ponders the closedness of some components14:34
lardmanand the fact it means we can't add useful features14:34
RST38hjust write them from scratch14:34
DocScrutinizerlardman: ++14:35
lardmanRST38h: yeah, we didn't know we'd need to when the N900 came out though14:35
lardmanbut I guess we should just crack on and do so for the N950/N9 in the expectation that things probably won't get fixed14:35
Shapeshifterme ponders that the open source components are too complicated for him to understand and adapt. like modest, hildon-desktop etc...14:35
DocScrutinizersome of them for sure14:36
Jaffalardman: No idea. Not got 802.11n here14:36
Jaffalardman: Not seen it in the settings14:36
ShapeshifterI can write a small program in C, but all that stuff is so big and complicated :|14:36
DocScrutinizertelepathy ;-O14:36
SpeedEvilIt'd be so nice if we could go back to the start with n90014:36
SpeedEvilAnd do it 'right'.14:36
lardmanJaffa: np, was just curious as I need to buy a new wireless router14:36
MohammadAGwl1271 is 802.11n afaik14:37
SpeedEvilWith the knowledge that it's possible to get past some of the closed stuff.14:37
RST38hlardman: but NOW we know better, don't we? :)14:37
SpeedEvilAnd much of the closed stuff was in fact open14:37
ruskiemmm would be nice to be able to use e17/illume on the n900 instead of hildon...14:37
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: and poooooorly documented14:37
lardmanRST38h: yes I'd say so14:37
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jonwilfar too much of the important bits on the N900 and yes the N9 and N950 is closed source14:37
lardmanRST38h: and if we're wrong, then we can be pleasantlt surprised14:37
psycho_oreosbut there's things that one wished Nokia would have done more of a proper job in adding useful functions in, like alarm without the ability to set workdays is annoying when one has multiple/sequential alarms :)14:37
Shapeshifterpsycho_oreos: I wrote a program for that14:38
RST38hlardman: always the case with pessimists! =)14:38
lardmanpsycho_oreos: don't get me started on the calendar14:38
psycho_oreosShapeshifter, alarmed? :)14:38
Shapeshifterpsycho_oreos: yeah. you can set which workdays14:38
psycho_oreoslardman, there's plenty of other little nuisances one can find when using N900 on a daily basis :)14:39
Shapeshiftermodest is the worst thing about the n90014:39
Shapeshifterapt-get works...14:39
DocScrutinizermeh, simply do email on a *real* PC :-P14:39
Shapeshifteremail is essential in communication14:40
Shapeshiftermore important that phoning, for me14:40
psycho_oreosShapeshifter, hmm, should make it a todo thing about importing user set alarms through osso-alarm or osso-clock whatever it was14:40
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: won't fly14:40
psycho_oreoslol email functionality was provided but was not done properly :) its kinda like buying a car that would could actually go but you had to pedal by feet (like flintstones) ;)14:41
* ruskie checked stast that the cellco offers for the past few months on his cell usage... calls: 0, 1, 0, 4, 0 sms: 1, 2, 0, 0, 1 mms: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 data(in mb): 200, 300, 100, 200, 40014:41
ruskiecalls in minutes that is14:41
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: you'd have to integrate alarmed into all those usually closed bits14:41
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I know I know, as with lots of other things *sigh* I'll just have to do them by hand :/14:41
psycho_oreosthe individual entries that I had with osso-clock14:42
Shapeshifterruskie: I barely do 5 calls a month14:42
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ruskieShapeshifter, I barely do 114:42
DocScrutinizeryeah, like selecting "mobile" instead of "phone" for 70% of new contacts14:42
MohammadAGRST38h, lardman Fremantle seems more open than Harmattan14:42
ruskieShapeshifter, those were in minutes... so basically last 5 months... 5 minutes of calls14:42
DocScrutinizerruskie: looks like my stats14:43
cpscottiDocScrutinizer, ruskie : me too!14:43
ruskieI'd like to get data closer to my limit of 2GB14:43
Shapeshifterdamn, I forgot that windows overwrote my MBR14:43
ruskiebut no matter how much I try I can't really get it14:43
Shapeshifternow my desktop at home booted windows14:43
Shapeshifterdidn't fix it yet14:43
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DocScrutinizerruskie: emule ;-P14:43
ruskiehaven't used that in aeons14:43
DocScrutinizerruskie: get spare batteries!14:44
psycho_oreosruskie, mirror some maemo repositories or even nokia maemo repository ;)14:44
DocScrutinizerruskie: wathing streaming video is another good way14:44
psycho_oreosor just crawl through mxr LOL14:44
DocScrutinizer30min of live broadcast ~500MB14:44
ruskieDocScrutinizer, ha14:44
ruskieI watched a whole 90 minute footbal match a year or so ago14:45
ruskieI think it came ~500mb14:45
DocScrutinizerdepends on content ;-)14:45
DocScrutinizerfotball has really low info density14:45
DocScrutinizer*MY* fav TV otoh ... ;-P14:46
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ruskieI really can't force my eyes on the tiny screen sadly14:46
ParsleeGet nearsighted14:47
psycho_oreosyou can just use N900 as a mobile broadband modem you know, you don't have to watch things or do things with a small screen :)14:47
DocScrutinizerI regularly watch TV via IPTV and TV linked to AV14:47
ruskiepsycho_oreos, but what would I use it with14:47
ruskieI don't have a laptop14:47
psycho_oreosruskie, not even a computer? :)14:48
ruskieI hardly consider the eeepc something worth using a lot...14:48
DocScrutinizerruskie: >/dev/null ;-P14:48
ruskieand I have a usb 3g dongle that I can use14:48
psycho_oreosbut you have to admit that eeepc has a much bigger screen than N900 :)14:48
ruskieeeepc 70114:48
psycho_oreoslol and null device becomes full ;)14:48
ruskieso 7" screen14:49
psycho_oreosyeah, 10" vs what 3 or so inches? :)14:49
ruskienot that much bigger14:49
ruskie701 is 7"14:49
psycho_oreosits still double ;D14:49
ruskieI'm planing on getting a touchbook or an eee pad transformer or the lenove thinkpad tablet thingy...14:49
DocScrutinizera friend of mine used to start 3 or 4 concurrent lifestreams when he left home. Rationale: it's flatrate so I want to USE it!  OMG14:50
ruskieerm lenovo even14:50
psycho_oreoswhat about a big TV? you can probably do what DocScrutinizer did, hook it up to TV and watch IPTV, youtube or whatever through there :D14:50
ruskiealready have a media box hooked to the tv at home14:50
* cpscotti finds out that works on his n900; "How to use all you data problem" solved. 14:50
ruskieand I'd really NOT want to use 3g to stream anything bigger than a matchbox14:50
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ruskiecpscotti, "not available in your country"14:51
psycho_oreosjust trying to find ways for you to eat up more of that 2G quota :p. I'm somewhat envious (I'm stuck here with 300MB)14:51
ruskieso... no that doesn't work14:51
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ruskiepsycho_oreos, I pay what... 12 eur for that quota14:51
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ruskieI can up it to 20gb for 18 eur14:51
ruskieor down to I think 100mb for 8 eur14:52
ruskieI don't make package contracts14:52
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ruskiebasic service I pay 5 eur14:52
ruskiefor no minutes, sms, mms, data14:52
Hurrianpsycho_oreos, IPTV?14:52
psycho_oreosruskie, that's relatively cheap compared to here :) in my case I don't just get 300MB (that 300MB one of the three options I was entitled to as added bonus), I get fair few hours worth of calls, and few SMS for AUD$79/month14:53
Hurrianscrew that, how about a script that fetches RSS of new shows and auto-subscribes and torrents them?14:53
psycho_oreosHurrian, yeah streaming video TV :)14:53
Hurriani always wanted to automate my RSS downloads14:53
psycho_oreosthat was somewhat suggested :)14:53
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psycho_oreosheh write a scraper ;)14:54
Hurriani dont want to look for shows, i want to watch shows, and have the scheduled air times show on some home screen14:54
ruskieI'm lucky that I'm still keeping my own package... I don't upgrade the package at all...14:54
Hurrianand in my country, digital TV and cable TV are shite14:54
ruskiethe one I started with14:54
psycho_oreoshaha Hurrian that more or less makes two of us14:55
Hurrianever since i replaced all my tubes with LCD TVs, i need HD content14:55
Hurrian...the Internet gives me my HD content14:55
ruskieatm the cheapest I could get would be 7€/month if I started new and I get 51 minutes in that included14:55
Hurrianbut damn, i cant be assed to look for my own shows14:55
Hurrianhmm, time to make a script myself then14:56
ruskiethere are tools for that already Hurrian14:56
Hurrianevery few hours = timeslot14:56
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ruskieautomating rss torrent ep downloads14:56
Hurrianat certain times of day, it dl's and shows... shows/movies of $TIMESLOT genre14:56
Hurrianhmm, should probably add auto-compensation for download times14:56
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Hurrianruskie, i already have RSS for torrent downloads of episodes14:58
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Hurriani meant, the script automatically looks for new shows and downloads them14:58
* ruskie is trying to figure out if people really don't calculate that N months*price is higher than buying device operator free...14:58
Hurrianruskie: people love $1/device + $70/month "unlimited" data15:00
ruskieyeah I've noticed15:00
Hurrianalso, in the USA, people love CDMA15:00
lardmanover here it's about the same15:00
Hurrianwhy the fuck they do, i don't know15:00
psycho_oreosmore providers in stateside uses CDMA from what I've read and heard15:00
Hurriani mean, if you bring your CDMA superdroid over to Europe, it turns into an iPod Touch ;)15:00
lardmanor indeed sometimes margnially cheaper as you get more data/minutes/etc if you pay more per month, even if that does subsidise the device cost15:00
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alteregoI bet quims emails are in launchpad spam15:02
alteregoI'm still hopeful tomorrow is the day :)15:02
fosstuxHi! I'm thinking about moving to gpe-contacts and gpe-calendar.15:02
fosstuxHow can I easily import my contacts and calendars into the gpe apps?15:03
ruskiethe media made a point in calculating how much an iphone 4 costs on contract vs cellco free...15:03
alteregogreat ...15:03
alteregoruskie: and?15:03
ruskiethe diff between the cheapest 16gb model was like 400eur overpayed15:03
alteregogot a link?15:03
ruskie <-- you'll need to translate it ;)15:04
ruskiethe comparison on how much it costs you from operators is in the pdf linked to at the bottom of the article15:04
alteregoheh, thanks15:04
ruskiethe free price of it is somewhere in the beginging(630 eur)15:04
alteregoYeah, sounds free to me ..15:05
ruskieI mean taking out a loan for 630 eur you would overpay like 20-50 eur somewhere...15:05
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* DocScrutinizer has PAYG since 199915:06
DocScrutinizernever felt like changing that15:06
alteregosame sim? :P15:06
DocScrutinizernot like it's my only sim - bought me like 20 or 30 for test purposes15:07
alteregoI've got about 1015:08
DocScrutinizeryou know, senior EE of a phone builder company15:08
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ruskieI started with prepay15:09
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ruskiebut frankly... the prices for calls and data simply were to high15:09
DocScrutinizerthey were high in the beginning15:10
DocScrutinizernow are better than contract most usually15:10
ruskiethough I did actually change to postpay like in 2008 or so15:10
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Hurrianah wow15:11
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DocScrutinizerand as the subsidized bricks they offer for their contracts never are what I'm looking for, there's definitely no use in contracts for me15:11
HurrianDocScrutinizer: same15:11
nid0im on a contract, dunno about elsewhere in the world but contract + subsidized phone prices in the uk tend to work out fairly decent15:11
Hurrianthey give me some useless nokia brick every year15:11
Hurrianlately, they gave me a C3-0115:12
HurrianS40 --- the pain15:12
ruskies40... imho the best mobile os around15:12
ruskiefor phones15:12
Hurrian...out of memory15:12
Hurrianwhat the hell?15:12
Hurrianis nokia still to cheap to buy more RAM?15:13
ruskieit's not meant to be used as a feature/smart phone15:13
ruskieit's meant to be used as... a phone15:13
Hurriananyways, the great tactile on it is... great15:13
Hurrianyou can feel the touchscreen button under your finger15:13
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Hurrianalthough i think it has a lot to do with the metal back cover15:13
DocScrutinizerI'm fine with ~10EUR / month right now: pay 30 get 30 on top for bonus minutes/sms. The basic 30 go for 500mb data @ 10/month, the bonus goes higher and higher as my calls are like 5min/month15:13
ruskiehmm comparing postpaid and prepaid... the call prices are the same atm...15:14
Hurrianruskie, not here15:14
ParsleeHurrian...'feel touchscreen button15:14
ruskieand if I go with a specific setup(no monthly cost just how much I use) I cen even get mobile net options...15:14
Hurriani rarely if ever text people, so i always call15:14
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HurrianUS$20/mo with unlimited data + unlimited calls to own network15:15
ruskiethat would certainly save me an extra 5 eur/month15:15
HurrianParslee , have you tried any of the new symbian devices?15:15
Hurriantactile is excellent15:15
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ruskiebut I have some other things enabled on my service that I would then lose15:15
ParsleeThe  screen dynamically createss raised buttons?15:16
Hurrianparslee , i meant the vibration15:16
ruskieactually my cellco is offering voip service now as well15:16
Hurrianit's just long enough to feel enough like a button15:16
DocScrutinizerParslee: your idea is WiP15:16
nid0personally half the reason I hold on to my current contract is because of its' unlimited data allowance that my network dont offer any more :<15:17
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DocScrutinizertakes another maybe 5 years15:17
Hurrianruskie, they better start moving to voip and charge for data15:17
Hurrianwith 4G mandating all-IP etc15:17
DocScrutinizerHurrian: that's a simplified view on 4G15:18
ruskiethey actually started an LTE test network15:18
ruskiebut they don't even have ipv615:18
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nid0makes sense not to15:18
eckeanyone in here who use weechat?15:19
Hurrianwell, if you buy their really cheap SIM cards and putting it into your phone, you're already transmitting data to the tower, and basically have a data connection 24/7. what they should charge you for would be the peering to other networks, e.g. the internet15:20
ruskietheir voip setup is free for softphone use and payed for normal calls or to normal numbers through softphone15:20
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ruskieI should probably enable it15:21
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Hurrianruskie, so it's free for voip->voip?15:21
ruskiethey do charge 2eur for the service though15:22
ruskieis it worth it...15:22
ruskieprobably not15:22
Hurrianah, i noticed a lot of operators switching to IP backbones recently, probably explains all the "unlimited everything" everything15:22
Hurrian...within one network, of course15:23
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ruskiethey really should make this a free service15:26
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ruskienot pay us an extra 2 eur to use it15:27
ruskiethen it would actually make sense to me to get a mobile internet service and use the sip stuff on the n900 and lose the data addon on the main service15:28
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fluxruskie, so they should make a service free in order for you to be able to stop paying for their other service as well, that's going to fly.. ;-)15:29
ruskieflux, you misunderstand ;)15:30
ruskieI'd still be paying the 5eur/month for normal phone service15:30
ruskiesip should be included for free in that15:30
ruskiethe only change would be that I would drop the data addon from that service and buy a separate data service from them15:30
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ruskieand yes I would get the data package from them ;)15:32
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ruskiemainly because I don't like for whatever reasons any of the other primary providers15:32
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* ruskie goes to bother his landline provider that has voip service about when they are planing to unlock access for softphone use...15:36
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DocScrutinizerruskie: I'd like them to pay me 2 eur to use it ;-D16:00
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ruskieDocScrutinizer, hehe16:01
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DocScrutinizerruskie: quite usually VoIP on landline *is* unlocked for softphones - just they frequently don't tell you explicitly how to do it16:03
DocScrutinizerNGN is plain SIP usually16:04
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fralswhoever linked the reddit about getting N8 as replacement for N900, i whinged @ "@NokiaHelps":!/NokiaHelps/status/8820798693743820916:04
DocScrutinizereeeew a twitter URL16:05
DocScrutinizerwould you mind to quote plain text here please?16:05
frals"Yes, you are right, N8 not the same as N900, unfortunately it seems that there was no better option in this case. ^PP"16:05
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Venemo_N900they can gimme N9 to replace my N90016:06
DocScrutinizerWhat The.... The better option is to send back the broken N900 *together* with the N816:07
viszthey can pry the n900 from my cold dead hands16:07
rm_worki missed the context, but lol16:07
DocScrutinizervisz: ++16:07
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DocScrutinizerit is **MY** N90016:08
Venemo_N900visz ++16:08
DocScrutinizernobody, I repeat NOBODY may keep it and give me N8 crap for it16:08
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psycho_oreosfunny how they still haven't picked up the fact that lots of happy maemo owners wouldn't want N8 as a replacement device16:09
* SpeedEvil wonders if anyone will get n9 in replacement of n90016:10
psycho_oreosall they can do is pretend they are understanding when they aren't in actual fact16:10
Venemo_N900psycho_oreos, I think they don't understand that there are happy Maemo owners16:10
DocScrutinizernot for the next 3 months16:10
DocScrutinizermaybe not for next 616:10
psycho_oreosVenemo_N900, rather they were blinded by Elop's awe ;)16:10
DocScrutinizerafter N9 rollout they may do that16:10
Venemo_N900psycho_oreos, yea.16:10
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer :)16:11
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jacekowskiwell, i have an idea16:11
jacekowskii'll send my N900 back16:11
jacekowskiif i get N8 back16:11
jacekowskii'll sell it and buy N900 on ebay16:11
jacekowskiand i'll probably even make few quid on it16:12
DocScrutinizerthat's what I suggested to do anyway16:12
psycho_oreoslots of round work16:12
Venemo_N900jacekowski :)16:12
DocScrutinizeras that's probably what Nokia meant you to do, and only thing they can handle the situation16:12
Venemo_N900well, sure, there'd be a lot of idiots happily buying an N816:12
DocScrutinizersee, Nokia can't find a N900 on ebay for you16:13
DocScrutinizerthey can't give you back the original amount of money you paid for N90016:13
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: looking for me?16:13
psycho_oreosthey should get that N950 production line going for the rest of the happy maemo users or I'm sure someone will sue them16:13
DocScrutinizerthey can't give you a new N900 as they ran out of stock16:14
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: what's theat foo about "joerg" a few hours ago?16:14
psycho_oreoswouldn't they still have the parts for N900?16:14
Parsleepitchforks and torches for n950s16:14
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: no16:14
jacekowskihmm, N8 is only worth around £140 on ebay16:14
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: we saw someone enter as joery with t-dialin host, so kerio thought it was you with a different nick16:15
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: jhb ( has joined #maemo16:15
kerioi didn't, someone else did16:15
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: parts appeared on chinese resellers who probably bought the surplus from Nokia for cheap16:15
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: aah, no wasn't me16:15
hiemanshuah it was Termana16:15
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, lol shocking. They manufacturered N900, had all the tools for hacking N900 physically and it seems like all those stuff went to either scrap or elsewhere16:16
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yeah, we all are bored waiting for the nokia email, so just trollin :P16:16
jhbhiemanshu: there is more then one n900 user in germany :-)16:16
psycho_oreosmeanwhile you lucky N950 guys will be guaranteed of getting N950, other avenue of possibly obtaining N950 has been closed16:17
hiemanshujhb: more like more than one joerg with a t-dialin ISP :P16:17
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: well you cant call use lucky until we have one in our hands :P anything can change :P16:17
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: me? t-dialin? how comes you think I got t-dialin?16:17
Jaffaalterego: Just had a call from Nokia Care - they've got an *enormous* waiting list for N900s at the moment, and can offer a swap for an E7. They wouldn't have N9s for swap until about 3-4 months after launch. Since E7s are going for more than N8s on eBay, and I have another N900 anyway, I'm going for the E7 and will liquidate the cash towards an N9 ;-)16:17
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: <Termana> Someone using a nickname they have never used before. But they are using a certain country provider and real name that tells everyone who they are! :p16:18
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, I can't vouch for guaranteed but I'm sure you guys would have the upper hand of getting N950 than those who either got rejected or didn't apply for one in time :)16:18
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: true :D16:19
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I hope there's no indication whatsoever about the internet provider and link I'm using16:19
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: nope, you are cloaked16:20
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, if the devices don't ship before Thursday I'll probably leave and ask someone to ship it to me16:21
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, I got rejected for that OSS but I didn't think the other avenue would be closed. They stated somewhere towards end of July and its already now closed, lame16:21
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hiemanshupsycho_oreos: they got more applications then they expected, which is a good thing actually16:22
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, I don't think that will change Elop's stance of scrapping meego in the long run16:23
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: lets murder him and appoint DocScrutinizer as the next CEO :D16:23
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: Oh - the other one which said end July has closed?16:23
psycho_oreosthough one thing qgil said on that meego thread kept reminding me about how hard it was for them to shortlist people16:23
hiemanshuwe will have OSS meego, with hostmode and nice hardware :P16:23
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, only one can hope16:24
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, yup :/16:24
SpeedEvilOh well, I guess my backup plan of mugging someone comes to the fore then.16:24
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SpeedEvilEasier than writing a nice blurb about what I'll do is.16:24
psycho_oreosand that ebay scam is starting to look really shiny (as in addictive)16:25
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: and that ebay scam is starting to look really shiny (as in tempting)16:26
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, I guess you were rejected or didn't apply for one in time?16:27
SpeedEvilRejected from the oss program. My initial app was basically platform, not apps. I added some apps later on, but that wasn't counted16:28
psycho_oreoshaha makes two of us :) two known rejects16:29
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: 3 of them dont have owners yet, try again16:29
SpeedEvilhiemanshu: I've already pinged quim about my entry for reconsideration, and been knocked back, so I doubt it.16:29
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: ah16:30
SpeedEvilThe apps section was largely tacked on, and would admittedly mean me learning Qt/...16:30
nid0bleh, the tesco app should get you a device on its own :<16:31
psycho_oreosI wonder if the are still short listing applicants or are they going to just reserve the 3 extras just for themselves?16:31
SpeedEvilnid0: I added that after the deadline16:31
[DarkGUNMAN]do you have any good online resources for learnng qt from the very beginning?16:32
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I also changed my application significantly to emphasize H-E-N is an APP, shortly after deadline16:33
Venemo_N900[DarkGUNMAN], do you know C++?16:33
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[DarkGUNMAN]nope. never touched it16:33
[DarkGUNMAN]only stuff i did was vb and autoit16:33
Venemo_N900then it will be a bit more difficult16:34
Venemo_N900if you ever coded anything, that may help.16:34
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DocScrutinizervb is a good basis to start with python and Qt bindings16:35
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jonwilwow, David Weinehall responded to my tklock post (presumably the same guy who's name appears at the top of16:35
jonwilthe top of the tklock source files in MCE16:35
hiemanshuso from the forum postings we know atleast they are working on our accounts16:35
[DarkGUNMAN]yes I do code, but nothing too heavy. still I have to start somewhere and if you have any good newbie links i'd be grateful16:35
jonwiland has clarified a couple of things which is nice :)16:35
DocScrutinizerjonwil: \o/16:35
hiemanshuW00T, it shows for me16:35
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: it shows that I am a part of launchpad16:36
DocScrutinizerjonwil: $Nokia starts to notice your existence16:36
hiemanshualterego: no email, but check your developer account settings,16:36
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: welcome to the club16:36
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: so what we're supposed to do now?16:36
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: lets wait :P16:36
SpeedEviljonwil: :)16:37
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: atleast we are in the same boat now :P16:37
DocScrutinizerwait for WHAT? wait for DHL ringing my doorbell?16:37
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: email saying 'We have a N950 waiting for you'16:38
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DocScrutinizer[citation needed]16:38
hiemanshudoes that open for you?16:38
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hiemanshuok, so we are in the same boat16:39
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: shouldn't be long now16:39
hiemanshuwe atleast they are accepting you into launchpad16:40
DocScrutinizersee, it's a major PITA to scan all my environment (both IT and RL) for unusual events maybe related to N95016:40
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* jonwil is going to send a thankyou note to David thanking him for the clarification on those points :)16:41
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: just do what me and GeneralAntilles did, write a scirpt to check your mail for the keyword N950 and play a nice song or do some disco lights16:41
DocScrutinizeryou'll learn quickly that your situation hasn't really improved by getting accepted to launchpad - au contraire16:42
DocScrutinizerI'll LMFAO if the mail reads "there's a N9-devkit pack for you" :-P16:42
DocScrutinizerbtw I get mails with N950 in them like a dozen every minute16:43
SpeedEvilOr if they accidentally start shipping out a dusty pile of n810s.16:43
DocScrutinizeror even "RM-680 available"16:45
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: if they ship me a N810 with the features of the N950, I would be happy16:45
DocScrutinizeror "the device from DDP is available now for you"16:45
DocScrutinizerbut honestly who says there will be any mail at all?16:46
JaffaDocScrutinizer: The email I got was "There is a Nokia N950 waiting for you@16:46
DocScrutinizerJaffa: OK! that'S a word now16:46
DocScrutinizerJaffa: could you pretty please answer to
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: thanks for the link16:49
MohammadAG<hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: email saying 'We have a N950 waiting for you'16:50
MohammadAGafaik that means place your damn order16:50
hiemanshuMohammadAG: right16:50
hiemanshuMohammadAG: also check
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: see if you have been accepted yet16:51
MohammadAGdid you? :P16:51
hiemanshuits tuesday :D16:51
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MohammadAGMy programs16:51
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MohammadAG No programs.16:51
hiemanshuMohammadAG: hah, so I am in atleast :P16:52
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MohammadAGthey're going over applications one by one16:52
MohammadAGwhich really deserves a facepalm16:52
jonwilI definatly dont think I am deserving of a N95016:53
hiemanshujonwil: awesome, give yours to SpeedEvil16:53
DocScrutinizerand after they finished that, they'll process those that already were accepted for launchpad ;-P16:53
jonwilI didnt even apply :P16:53
hiemanshujonwil: damn16:53
jonwilfor that reasons16:53
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: atleast we know, some people cant script :P16:53
jonwilTime to get back to reverse engineering the mce plugins16:54
jonwilsince reverse engineering the mce binary itself has been a bust16:54
DocScrutinizerjonwil: any pointer to tha convo with weinehall?16:54
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, do you plan on continuing the bubbles clone?16:55
Venemo_N900yes, absolutely16:55
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: is still empty :(16:55
jonwilwhat is this bubbles clone you speak of?16:56
jonwilThats the post on the developer mailing list by Weinehall16:56
alterego"no programs"16:56
jonwilMy response was a private email that basically said "16:56
jonwilsaid "thanks for the info"16:57
Venemo_N900jonwil, it will be a new lockscreen for Maemo 516:57
jonwilGreat, then I assume my mailing list posting with the lockscreen details was of value...16:58
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hiemanshualterego: muhahah, I got mine today :D :D :D16:58
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fiferboyalterego: Me too16:59
DocScrutinizerjonwil: thanks16:59
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jonwilWhy are you interested anyway doc?17:00
tzafrir_laptopIs there any maemo imap client that can use imap over ssh tunnel?17:01
DocScrutinizerquoting FZ: your launchpad is stuffed with absolutely nothing. I mean you get nothing with your launchpad acceptance17:01
tzafrir_laptopRather than a direct imap connection?17:01
MohammadAGjonwil, Nokia Bubbles, a lockscreen for Symbian^317:01
MohammadAGwhich seems to have gotten slower as of the latest version17:01
DocScrutinizerNMB: "I get nothing - well that's what I want"17:01
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DocScrutinizerFZ: a true Zen saying "Nothing is what I want"17:02
jonwilso yeah Mohammad, you see the nice mailing list message from David Weinehall? Good to get clarification on those things17:02
jonwilespecially from the guy who wrote the code :)17:03
MohammadAGhiemanshu, where did you get the email? spam?17:03
hiemanshuMohammadAG: no email, just checked it manually and found it17:03
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: follow up on it - probably winehall is eager to shar more info, as he dislikes the closed-source state as much as we all do17:04
MohammadAGjonwil, he doesn't seem to be @nokia anymore though17:04
MohammadAGor he's using a personal address17:04
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: a lot of nokians do17:05
jonwilI just followed up on it with an email that said "thanks for the info, it will really help" basically17:05
lardmanhiemanshu: and it says there's a device for you there does it?17:05
hiemanshulardman: nope no device, just accepted into launchpad17:05
lardmanbecause you can get that page?17:06
rm_workone step in the long journey towards N950 :P17:06
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hiemanshulardman: yes17:06
jonwilDoc, do you mean you are intending to email David or are you suggesting I should or what?17:06
lardmanrm_work: yep, an exciting journey for which we know no waypoints ;)17:06
hiemanshulardman: is empty17:06
Venemo_N900hiemanshu, accepted? huh!17:06
hiemanshuVenemo_N900: yes17:06
lardmanI can also see that page, and it's empty17:06
Venemo_N900hiemanshu, I envy you17:06
hiemanshuVenemo_N900: hah17:06
hiemanshuVenemo_N900: check
hiemanshuVenemo_N900: if you access it, you have been accepted too17:06
hiemanshuit isn't sending emails though17:06
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I'm suggsting you reconsider RE of things you gave up due to missing info, and you go to ask winehall about those missing bits17:07
lardmanInteresting there' a "Maemo test" in the dropdown list17:07
Venemo_N900hiemanshu, "ou do not have the required access rights to the page you were trying to access. Please see our Developer Programs pages for further details about our offering. "17:07
hiemanshuVenemo_N900: ah, so wait17:07
jonwilExcept that he may not have any info on those other things. (or be able to share too much)17:07
DocScrutinizerjonwil: you'll have to learn to ask smart questions, as winehall can't disclose any code longer than 1 or 2 lines17:07
hiemanshulardman: w00t, you are accepeted too :D17:07
Venemo_N900I've been waiting for a week17:08
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lardmanright, so we're progressing gradually17:08
hiemanshuVenemo_N900: I got mine today, you might be tomorrow17:08
hiemanshulardman: yes17:08
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, he can disclose all the code per line17:08
jonwilno, he can disclose fragments I suspect17:08
DocScrutinizerjonwil: but he may be more than happy to help on your RE enterprise, as that should result in sth he thinks is the right thing17:08
hiemanshuVenemo_N900: there is another hour left for the day17:08
Venemo_N900hiemanshu, we shall see then :)17:08
Venemo_N900I know, patience is a virtue17:09
* w00t__ is not yet accepted :-p17:09
hiemanshuw00t__: hah17:09
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: would probably get him into trouble17:09
Venemo_N900w00t__, me either17:09
jonwilWith regard to the mce binary itself, there is very little that will let me get something usable short of having the entire code for tklock.c, devlock,c, powerkey.c and the others that are very different between Diablo, Fremantle, MeeGo and Harmattan17:09
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, do you know what I don't understand?17:09
* lardman hopes that the Launchpad team are accepting users and adding their N950 at the same time17:09
MohammadAG<hiemanshu> Venemo_N900: there is another hour left for the day17:10
MohammadAGwhat timezone is that? :P17:10
MohammadAGlardman, afaik you have to order it17:10
DocScrutinizerjonwil: you can get proper specifications on what that code does, and how, from winehall -maybe17:10
jonwilI doubt it, its way too much code and info17:11
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, imagine the following: an anonymous Nokia employee and a Maemo fan meet at a pub and share a few beers. Next day, someone from the Maemo community announces that he had rewritten MCE.17:11
hiemanshuMohammadAG: it around 4 something there right? or do I have the timezone wrong17:11
Venemo_N900why isn't this happening?17:11
lardmanMohammadAG: there's nothing I can order yet17:11
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DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: I know your idea17:11
hiemanshulardman: yes, we'll have to wait for that :(17:11
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: too risky if it's about your job17:12
MohammadAGhiemanshu, a day ends at 12, or 11:59:59 :P17:12
hiemanshuMohammadAG: work day17:12
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, I can recall 2 people who quit Nokia in the past month or so17:12
MohammadAGhiemanshu, work days end at 5?17:12
SpeedEvilVenemo_N900: NDAs still apply typically.17:12
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, couldn't they had done this before they quit?17:12
hiemanshuMohammadAG: for most of them yes17:13
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: see SpeedEvil17:13
Venemo_N900SpeedEvil, the aforementioned Maemo community member could insist that he had written the code himself17:13
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: you're typically hoping for a good reputation for your next aplication for another job17:13
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, sure, but in this situation, noone would know who did it17:15
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: too risky, too sneaky17:15
Venemo_N900I'll stop this before my next boss reads this discussion :P17:15
DocScrutinizersee? ;-P17:15
FIQlogs :D17:16
DocScrutinizeractually if you plan to do sth like that, then you typically include stuff to a SDK that's not really needed there17:16
DocScrutinizeror put more to a repo than "intended"17:16
DocScrutinizere.g a 120MB tarball ;-P17:17
DocScrutinizera pity they revoked it before anybody got to download it17:17
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FIQlol, has it actually happened?17:18
DocScrutinizerask javispedro17:18
MohammadAGyep, he found it cached on google17:18
MohammadAGnot the actual tarball though17:18
Stskeepsfound what?17:19
DocScrutinizera 120MB tarbal in the repos17:19
Stskeepsheh, talk about massive source..17:19
jonwila 117mb tarball calaiming to be source for harmattan package-manager17:19
DocScrutinizeralas we don't know the 57 guys who actually downloaded it17:20
FIQnice thing to put in repos17:20
FIQand, .deb?17:21
jonwilhow do you know anyone actually downloaded it?17:21
FIQwasn't MeeGo supposed to use .rm?17:21
DocScrutinizerso this bit got loast for community, whatever it was17:21
infobotFIQ meant: wasn't MeeGo supposed to use .rpm?17:21
jonwilthis is Harmattan, not MeeGo17:21
Venemo_N900FIQ, Harmattan is Maemo 6, not MeeGo17:21
jonwilHarmattan uses .deb17:21
FIQThey brand it as meego :D17:22
DocScrutinizerFIQ: pleeease....17:22
jonwilbtw there is also this17:22
DocScrutinizerthis debate is really out17:22
jonwilwhich is a cache of the .dsc file17:23
FIQDocScrutinizer: i'll not debate, as I don't know much of harmattan17:23
jonwiland shows that a lot of packages get built from that source17:23
jonwilincluding test packages17:23
Venemo_N900FIQ, this is not news. Harmattan is Maemo 6, and that's it.17:23
jonwilwhich may explain its large size17:23
Venemo_N900it's API compatible with MeeGo, so they did put a MeeGo sticker on it.17:23
Stskeepsdidnt use to be closed source?17:24
Stskeepsor do i remember wrong17:24
MohammadAGnope, open17:25
MohammadAGmafw used to be open :P17:25
jonwilmafw is?17:25
MohammadAGmafw's open on Fremantle17:25
MohammadAGclosed in Harmattan17:25
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alteregoqmafw is in harmattan, same dbus apis though.17:26
DocScrutinizerI planned to "mirror" (aka wget) the whole friggin repo twice a day, but I'm short of storage on my box17:26
MohammadAGalterego, the old API should work too17:26
MohammadAGmy mediaplayer should build and run on it17:26
DocScrutinizerI *know* there are a few guys on this globe who did17:26
FIQhow big is it?17:26
alteregoSure, and my im status updater :)17:27
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jonwilThere are a few things in Harmattan that are open that were closed in Fremantle17:27
MohammadAGget rid of pyside, please :P17:27
jonwillibbmeipc-dev is available in Harmattan but not Fremantle17:27
jonwilsame with libsysinfo-dev17:27
MohammadAGand vice versa17:27
Stskeepsjonwil: its open? hmm17:28
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jonwilwell libbmeipc-dev is available in the Harmattan SDK repo17:28
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jonwilbut I dont think its actually open, just "usable" in the way that some other headers are17:29
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jonwilat least the .h files contain no license, only a nokia (c)17:30
Stskeepswhat filenames?17:31
jonwilin a SDK install17:31
jonwilpackage is libbmeipc-dev17:31
jonwilonly available from the nokia-binaries SDK repo17:31
Stskeepsi dont have harmattan sdk on my computer nor do i want it :P got a pastebin of the filenames?17:32
X-Fadejonwil: The fact that it is in nokia-binaries means that they are closed :)17:32
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jonwilsame license as say libcal-dev17:32
Stskeepsat least we have those headers compared to the nightmare of years ago17:33
jonwilbmeisa.h, bmehal.h, em_isi.h, bmeipc.h, bmemsg.h17:33
Stskeepsheh, might have hit gold there17:33
alteregoHah, Apple hacked17:33
Stskeepscompare with the libbme ones on gitorious?17:33
Venemo_N900Stskeeps, how come that you're visiting #maemo again?17:33
StskeepsVenemo_N900: autojoin fail17:33
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Venemo_N900Stskeeps, aah.17:33
jonwilthe filenames from Harmattan libbmeipc-dev and from trunk of MeeGo libbme dont match17:35
Stskeepswell, you hit gold then17:35
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jonwilThose files are useful for Harmattan work but not so good for Fremantle work as the interface to BME seems different.17:36
Stskeepsfairly sure those arent supposed to be there :)17:36
jonwilBest reference for the Fremantle BME interface is the first revision checked into libbme in MeeGo git17:36
MohammadAGI wonder what else isn't supposed to be there :p17:36
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rm_workjonwil: can you pastebin some of those for me? I would like to look at them but don't have access to SDK currently17:37
jonwilI used some reverse engineering tricks and also various meego git revisions to identify interfaces to libbmeipc as used by other bits of the system (I made a maemo-developer list posting about it the other day). It contained the info one would need to replace BME with a new thing that talked directly to the hardware charger chip and yet not break any existing code17:38
jonwilI mean existing binaries17:39
Stskeepsdid you see my old bme protocol page?17:39
jonwilI think I might have. But in any case we know all we need to know to be able to replace libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme with new bits and not break anything else in the system.17:40
jonwilThanks to my list posting :)17:40
jonwilI could even go further and completly clone libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme if I cared :)17:40
jonwilrm_work, are you interested in libbmeipc headers for Harmattan or for Fremantle or what?17:41
jonwilor just curious in general?17:41
rm_workrelated to something i am working on possibly17:41
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rm_workwhat I *really* want to see is DSME headers17:42
rm_workor code... ^_^17:42
Stskeepsdsme is public17:42
Stskeepssince a fairly long time17:43
rm_workthey "said" it was public as of Berlin17:43
rm_workbut only published parts of it that don't matter17:43
rm_workkept the important bits closed still17:43
rm_worki need the WHOLE thing17:43
Stskeepswhich parts are you interested in_17:43
rm_workthe parts that control the backlight :P17:44
jonwildsme is 100% open source17:44
Stskeepsrm_work: thats handled in mce now i think17:44
rm_workso they moved it to MCE and THAT is closed?17:44
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Stskeepswell, sort of17:44
jonwilMCE is open in harmattan now also17:44
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rm_workthat would be good17:44
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Stskeepsfremantle one is, meego n900 mce one is open,17:44
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rm_worki just remember they opened DSME and it was totally useless17:44
jonwilyeah, we have code for Diablo mce (from who knows where), Harmattan mce, MeeGo mce but not Fremantle mce (where it would be the most usefull :P17:45
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Stskeepsrm_work: meego n900 has a working display plugin, at least17:46
Stskeepsand i think ALS code is there too17:46
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grihiemanshu: having no "launchpad" listed under "My Programs" means I applied wrong or I have not been reviewed? (don't get it from your forum post)17:47
Stskeepsgri: just not reviewed yet, afaik17:47
jonwilI attempted to take Diablo/MeeGo/Harmattan MCE code and Fremantle binaries, figure out the difference and make some code that matched Fremantle17:47
hiemanshugri: not been reviewed yet17:47
jonwilbut doing it for the main mce binary was too hard17:47
griOk, as long I did not apply wrong, that's fine :)17:47
jonwiltoo many differences between the 4 versions (Fremantle, Diablo, MeeGo, Harmattan)17:48
Stskeepsjonwil: ignore the binary.. plugins are where the guts are17:48
jonwilyeah I intend to hit the plugins next17:48
jonwiland see which ones I can reverse engineer into a matches-fremantle state17:48
rm_worknot seeing backlight control in MCE besides "is it on, is it dim, is it off" and "set on, set dim, set off"17:51
jonwilactually there is a lot more in the mce binary than you might think17:51
jonwilespecially related to device lock, tklock, power button17:51
jonwilthose 3 in particular were where I ended up getting stuck, deciding it was too hard and giving up17:52
MohammadAGStskeeps, rm_work backlight has always been controlled in mce afaik17:52
rm_workMohammadAG: Diablo it was DSME17:52
MohammadAGbut afaik, the plugin that controls that is closed in fremantle17:52
jonwilit might be open in MeeGo or Harmattan17:52
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jonwilInteresting, I commented to David and said "Its a pitty the "license change requests" thing never went anywhere17:53
jonwil(cf bugs like this ) "17:53
povbotBug 11794: Open Fremantle's MCE17:53
jonwiland he replied and said Definitely.  But it took me almost 7 years just to get mce opened up17:53
jonwilat all (just in time for me leaving Nokia)....17:53
jonwilso he has left Nokia17:54
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* Stskeeps isnt happy about the license change requests queue and the way it played out, but still maintains it was a solid process, just one of the wheels was broken17:54
DocScrutinizer(<Stskeeps> jonwil: ignore the binary.. plugins are where the guts are) is this also true for tweaking formats in mce.ini file?17:54
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: hmm, good question17:54
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i dont recall17:54
jonwilI think mostly the issue with the license-change-requests queue is that the things people wanted were things that were difficult to release for various reasons (some legitimate, some less so)17:55
DocScrutinizerI'm pondering to finally put straight the LP5523 mess, and enable 3 engines and patterns longer than 16 steps17:55
Stskeepsyeah, but even slam dunk ones were difficult17:55
Stskeepsi think there is something to be said about open source contribution processes from 2003 doesnt apply in 2011s world of git trees and merge requests and open development17:55
Stskeepsthose processes were centered around code dumps basically17:56
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Stskeepser, drops17:56
Stskeepsseems even intel has difficulties with those, too17:57
DocScrutinizerthrow over the wall, listen (or not) for the cheers17:57
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DocScrutinizerthat's not how FOSS works today17:57
jonwil_I suspect a lot of the license change requests were hard not because they themselves contained senstitive bits but because they would have exposed interfaces that Nokia didnt want to expose17:58
jonwil_e.g. anything that would have exposed the dbus interface used to talk to the CSD daemon and its plugins17:58
jonwil_They seem very reluctant to expose that at all17:58
jonwil_which is likely why cellular-qt is closed source in Harmattan17:59
DocScrutinizerjonwil_: most licence changes were hard because no manpower to assign to the needed code review and legal mambojambo17:59
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jonwil_hmmm yeah true17:59
jonwil_I have seen that with other companies when it comes to releasing code17:59
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jonwilin any case there are all sorts of interesting bits of info out there that I plan to make use of where possible18:00
GAN900No emails yet?18:00
DocScrutinizerbasically it is "we developed that 'to just work' and nobody thought about FOSS. Now opening it up means we have to redo the whole process basically"18:00
Venemo_N900GAN900, not for me, but some lucky bastards got one already, eg. hiemanshu18:01
hiemanshuGAN900: no email, but I manually checked, and I have been accepted into the program18:02
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu got accepted for launchpad - that's all18:02
jonwil for example is one random piece of info I stumbled upon18:02
jonwilwith google18:02
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alteregoHow many here have been accepted?18:02
hiemanshualterego: me, lardman so far18:02
* cpscotti not18:02
jonwiland I have plugged who knows how many package names, filenames, function names, structure names etc into Google in case something randomly useful shows up...18:03
alteregoSo 2 :)18:03
cpscottime thinks you are just poking fun at the rest of us mortals with no response yet18:03
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: well, ISI stuff is documented quite extensively on or what's been the URL18:04
jonwiland yes ofono code18:04
hiemanshualterego: DocScrutinizer was already in, so technically 318:04
fiferboyGAN900: IF they can process two a day we are in pretty good shape :P18:04
jonwilThats great if you are working on new stuff18:04
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jonwilbut in my case I need to work with the existing closed stack18:04
jonwilhence reverse engineering is the only answer most of the time18:04
hiemanshufiferboy: well timoph was the one that pointed out he was accepted too18:05
hiemanshuthats when I checked18:05
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jonwilbut things like that paste can really help fill in the gaps some times18:06
DocScrutinizertake that launchpad acceptance and eat it, I want a mail saying "there's a N950 waiting for you"18:06
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: give me your email :P18:06
DocScrutinizerat very least I'm not watching for DHL cars parking in front of my house anymore ;-)18:07
jonwilAlso of value is a great package called libcsnet-dev_0.4.14+0m5_armel from the Fremantle SDK nokia-binaries repo. Have to force-install it since its missing dependancies but it contains documentation for all the cellular network dbus calls18:07
jonwillike signal strength18:07
jonwiland tower info18:08
jonwiland stuff18:08
DocScrutinizerthough last time with DDP exactly that happened X-P  Some package arrived without ANY prior notice18:08
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moo18:08
hiemanshujavispedro: accepted yet?18:09
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: check your account sttaus18:09
javispedrofunnily you mention it18:09
hiemanshucheck if you can access it18:09
DocScrutinizerthough, as just mentioned, launchpad acceptance doesn't buy you a thing really18:09
lardmanjonwil: nice18:09
javispedroit now acts like if I never registered.18:10
jonwilyou would be surprised how much info there is in /usr/share/doc/blah18:10
hiemanshujavispedro: check
lardmanprobably why that doc-purger thing is run ;)18:10
alteregohiemanshu: and jaffa :P18:10
javispedrohiemanshu, no, not yet approved seemingly.18:10
hiemanshualterego: right18:10
javispedrowouldn't I get an email or sth if it were approved18:11
DocScrutinizerjonwil: (libcsnet) could you document all that stuff somewhere on wiki please?18:11
jonwilits not in an easy form to document18:11
jonwiland I dont understand it enough myself18:11
rm_workwell, if anyone sees any actually open code for directly controlling backlight level, let me know18:11
alteregoAnyway, Finnish day would have ended now, so I imagine no more activity until tomorrow.18:11
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: nope18:12
alteregohiemanshu: were you in the first wave?18:12
hiemanshualterego: yes18:12
rm_workbut AFAICT right now I will still have to reverse engineer it again18:12
hiemanshualterego: so you might be right, and yours might be wednesday :P18:12
jonwilI will be reverse engineering the mce plugins soon18:12
javispedrocan't you control the backlight via procfs? </naive>18:13
lardmaniirc it's overridden quite quickly18:13
jonwilIf anyone has any clues to backlight (e.g. mce.ini entries, dbus signals or any other known info that could help me locate the specific code for it) please tell me18:13
javispedrolardman, ah, same as vibra then :S18:13
jonwilyeah the vibration plugin is on my todo list18:13
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alteregohiemanshu: well, I was 1st wave too, if that means anything :)18:13
hiemanshualterego: I know18:14
jonwilespecially since its not in any of the MCE code we have18:14
Venemo_N900qwerty's simple brightness applet?18:14
alteregoThey're either doing it alphabetically, or processing quims mails in order.18:14
lardmanjonwil: grep for the device name for the sysfs entry?18:14
alteregoWho knows :)18:14
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jonwilwhat is the sys/proc entriy then?18:14
rm_workjavispedro: on 770 that is the only way, for Diablo it was in DSME, could set it via a socket18:14
javispedrobtw, accelerometer comes via input layer in harmattan18:14
rm_workVenemo_N900: i think that just does the stock 5 levels, which is controlled by gconf18:15
Venemo_N900rm_work, mhm18:15
rm_workjonwil: for backlight,
rm_workjonwil: that is how it USED to work18:15
rm_worklook for "advanced_backlight_plugin_dsme_update_brightness" function18:15
jonwilok, I will see if I can find it18:15
jonwilI should be able to find it inside mce18:16
hiemanshualterego: they might be doing it in order, but I am sure, I wasn't really fast on the email18:16
rm_workor "SYSFS_BRIGHTNESS" definition = /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level18:16
rm_workjonwil: i mean, that is MY function :P dunno what theirs is called18:16
DocScrutinizerjonwil: /sys/nodes are what mce i susing and updating frequently18:16
* Jaffa wonders if he should reveal that he *hasn't* got an N950 after all. Nokia shipped him a 5800 instead.18:17
rm_workjonwil: yeah, that sys node IS still possible to use, but it is immediately overwritten pretty much by ANYTHING18:17
rm_workJaffa: rofl18:17
rm_workjonwil: and the formula is retarded T_T18:17
Venemo_N900Jaffa, srsly?18:17
JaffaVenemo_N900: Yeah, srsly.18:17
alteregoJaffa: Another "upgrade"? :D18:17
SpeedEvilrm_work: It works adequately in pitch darkness to set the backlight level to minimum18:18
Jaffaalterego: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.18:18
Venemo_N900Jaffa :D18:18
DocScrutinizerrm_work: yes. that's where my idea is from, to LD_PRELOAD a wrapper to catch all open() and write() and related file funcrions when tehy match a certain path18:18
rm_workSpeedEvil: yeah :P18:18
Jaffaalterego: E7s seem to go for about 280 quid these days on ebay18:18
jonwilare you talking about screen brightness or keyboard backlight?18:18
rm_workDocScrutinizer: R O F L18:18
rm_workjonwil: screen18:18
SpeedEvilIs there an easy way to esit the levels that advanced-backlight-widget sets?18:18
alteregoJaffa: it's when you tell us they're running windows phone as a strategic coup.18:19
rm_workSpeedEvil: ?18:19
DocScrutinizerrm_work: ???18:19
SpeedEvilrm_work: I want to set the lowest to '2' - for example18:19
rm_workDocScrutinizer: that just might work, and it's a hilarious idea18:19
alteregohiemanshu: so, kinda looks like my tomorrow guess was correct ;) hopefully :)18:19
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DocScrutinizerit's a HACK18:19
rm_workSpeedEvil: ah, yeah i could implement that18:19
DocScrutinizera nasty one too18:19
javispedrothe only way they are approving my launchpad application is with a hammer18:20
rm_workDocScrutinizer: yeah, that's why I ROFLed :P18:20
Jaffaalterego: SSH only works cos it's running a qemu port to WP718:20
hiemanshualterego: yes :)18:20
javispedrothat, or an act of god.18:20
lardmanalterego: well at least your predicton can no longer be late ;)18:20
DocScrutinizereven more of a hack is to sed -i "s./sys.XXX." mce.binary18:20
rm_workSpeedEvil: I mean, the "levels" that ABL sets are... any backlight number18:20
rm_workSpeedEvil: I could allow the user to change the low/high range18:20
* javispedro has ordered two devices pluse n950 thing on monday, and is making bets who will ship first: lenovo, amazon, or nokia.18:20
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rm_workso instead of going from 0-127, it goes 2-12018:21
rm_workor something18:21
jonwilok, in the mce code I see display.h with a #define DISPLAY_BACKLIGHT_PATH /sys/class/backlight18:21
rm_workjavispedro: amazon >_>18:21
rm_workjavispedro: no question :P18:21
javispedrorm_work, not sure actually, lenovo estimate says shorter time18:21
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you did WHAT?18:21
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: order a N950???18:22
javispedroobviously not18:22
DocScrutinizersorry, misread18:22
javispedroparse as (has ordered two devices) plus (n950 thing)18:22
rm_workjavispedro: amazon usually ships basically instantly... tho i guess, did you buy it from AMAZON, or from some dealer VIA amazon?18:22
JaffaDocScrutinizer: You're now sending like qole on any mention of 'meltemi'18:23
jonwilso on Harmattan we have /sys/class/backlight as #define DISPLAY_BACKLIGHT_PATH18:23
jonwiland in MeeGo code we have the same path defined as DISPLAY_CABC_PATH18:23
javispedrorm_work, for some reason they have not shipped yet18:23
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rm_workjonwil: well, k. though I doubt the sysfs node is going to be the way to go18:23
jonwilEither way, it looks like I need to reverse engineer and clone the Fremantle file for backlight work18:23
DocScrutinizerJaffa: elaborate please18:23
fiferboyJaffa: Meltemi!  Who knows about that!!18:23
jonwilthen you can replace it18:23
javispedrorm_work, (despite all of the items I bought being in stock)18:23
jonwiland do things your way18:23
jonwilor should be able to18:23
javispedroyes, that would be useful =)18:24
JaffaDocScrutinizer: qole at the conference was convinced that finding the answer to "What is Meltemi?" would illuminate Nokia's secret plans for the continuation of MeeGo18:24
rm_workjonwil: yes, very useful :P18:24
lardmanJaffa: and did he find the answer?18:24
JaffaDocScrutinizer: It was funny/exciting/embarrassing[* delete as appropriate]18:24
DocScrutinizerJaffa: sounds rather nuts18:24
jonwilrm_work, do you follow the maemo-developers mailing llist?18:24
jonwilAnything I do related to mce code will be posted on there most likely18:25
Jaffalardman: No, of course not - it's just the name of another internal project. Probably WP7-ey18:25
lardmanah ok18:25
Jaffalardman: But he was like Pavlov's dogs ;)18:25
rm_workjonwil: i used to but somehow i got un-signed-up18:25
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rm_workbut i am around here a lot18:25
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lardmanso not a red herring planted on purpose then :)18:25
Jaffalardman: :)18:25
javispedroit's a planet on the M57 galaxy18:25
javispedro*a sun18:25
javispedrothey are obviously sending Elop there.18:25
* lardman wonders what the Finnish for "red herring" is18:25
lardmanharhautus or harhautusyritys apparently fwiw18:26
jonwilbut yeah lots of the readme files and docs for various packages have useful info18:27
Corsachmhm, shouldn't the next wind start by J?18:27
lardmanWhy J?18:28
javispedroyes, what happened to Inverna?18:28
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lardmanIt should be G, but we've already done that one, so next by my reckoning is I18:28
Stskeepsyou mean ilmatar18:28
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lardmansounds like another code word for Qole :)18:29
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Stskeepsironically i was at a intel hiring event at the same address of tuxera ntfs guys and a resturant ilmatar18:30
jonwilcool, someone came up with a header file for the otherwise closed HildonTimeZoneChooser widget18:32
Stskeepsi still find it interesting it was said that qt5 wont be for symbian18:33
alteregoI hope the face recognition / object tracking stuff in Harmattan is open enough to use.18:33
alteregoThough I imagine it's neither recognition or tracking.18:34
DocScrutinizerdefinitely it's face detection, not recognition18:34
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alteregoI'm contemplating an auto tagger for camera18:35
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alteregoDoing it before uploading to facebook, on your phone, seems less intrusive ..18:35
DocScrutinizerwho was it that claimed he got true face recognition working on maemo?18:35
lardmanalterego: apparently more info will be available on that after the N9 launch18:35
alteregoWhere as the auto recognition _on_ facebook, got a lot of flack.18:35
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: face detection18:36
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DocScrutinizerI thought somebody was working on recognition though18:36
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DocScrutinizermentioned that 2 or 4 days ago in this chan18:36
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yes I was18:36
DocScrutinizerI may be wrong18:36
hiemanshuI am working on it18:36
hiemanshubut I got face detection working18:37
DocScrutinizeropenCV comes to mind18:37
* DocScrutinizer wonders about the strange processes in his brain sometimes18:38
jonwilinteresting, the csd-gprs package comes with dbus docs for it18:38
DocScrutinizerjonwil: you NEED a blog, or a dedicated wikipage, wher we could look up all the awesome stuff you dig up every day18:38
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: there are quite a few examples with opencv, libface and haar detections18:38
DocScrutinizerjonwil: IRC is too volatile for that sort of stuff18:39
DocScrutinizermailing lists too unstructured18:39
* hiemanshu will bbl18:40
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I'm doing my best to keep up with all that bits of info you dump here, but I fail18:40
rm_workjonwil: yes plz, blog18:41
jonwilI just dont have the time to do a formal blog. I think the most likely place to dump this would be some wiki page(s) somewhere on the maemo wiki18:41
jonwilif I get any time to do it that is18:41
DocScrutinizerjonwil: honestly, if you want others to profit from your work, you need a central place where everything is aggregated18:41
DocScrutinizerdo it on wiki18:42
jonwilyeah if I get the chance I will see what I can toss up there18:42
jonwilin the way of links and info18:42
DocScrutinizeradd random bits, the page may look like a mess, as long as the bits are documented there and not only here on IRC18:42
rm_workjonwil: a blog is not hard. register for some random blog site, just paste whatever you find into the text box and hit "post"18:43
rm_workjonwil: it's even less clicks than a wiki IMO18:44
jonwilwiki is better, its easier for me18:44
* alterego agrees18:44
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alteregoJust do something ..18:44
rm_workyeah, given then people can reformat for you18:44
jonwiland add their own info18:44
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: see and
DocScrutinizerjonwil: ...for an example18:45
lardmanI'd go with the wiki, then the structure can be organised by people who are interested in that, leaving you to crack on with the investigation, which is what interests you18:45
jonwilwith regards to opening stuff up, more often than not, its not actual code I want, its definitions of dbus calls, disk files, gconf configs and stuff. Or its header files and info on a handful of functions18:45
DocScrutinizerjonwil: see for a more messy example18:45
jonwilfor example there are maybe 1/2 dozen functions in libconnui and libconnui-qt that I wish I had info on but dont.18:46
DocScrutinizerlardman: ++18:46
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GeneralAntillesSo, kimitake is the 3rd person to get an email.18:49
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DocScrutinizerwhat mail??18:49
rm_workjonwil: yeah, do a wiki page like that, and even put a section for "LOOKING FOR INFO ON [...]" and maybe anonymous people will add stuff for you :P18:50
DocScrutinizerwho's second then?18:50
rm_workGeneralAntilles: what does the email look like?18:51
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, think it was thp.18:51
GeneralAntillesrm_work, same as Jaffa's, I guess.18:51
DocScrutinizerno mail here yet18:51
rm_workwhich was?18:51
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DocScrutinizer"A N950 is waiting for you. Sincerely, noreply@nokia"18:52
DocScrutinizerI gather18:53
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CorsacI got my NACK on friday :(18:53
JaffaBasically, yes.18:53
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: FWIW, it then did appear in the "Devices available" section of the DDP. Well, that's where the URL in the email went.18:54
JaffaDocScrutinizer: I was clicking quite quickly so didn't explorer any other routes to get to the same info ;-)18:54
DocScrutinizerJaffa: \o/18:54
* DocScrutinizer hits F518:54
DocScrutinizernot yet18:55
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timelesshello world18:55
timelesssp3000: ping18:55
GeneralAntillesHey, timeless.18:56
DocScrutinizerJaffa: you might want to edit your post and add
timeless(or any Finnish speaker)18:56
lardmanhi timeless18:56
DocScrutinizerhi timeless, long time no see18:56
* timeless is enjoying Toronto18:56
timelesswell... I also managed to give myself a nasty sunburn on Sunday18:56
timelessSunny day... keeping the clouds away ...18:56
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timelessok, this is odd18:57
timelessSampo bank sent me a letter in *English*18:57
* timeless didn't know they could do that18:57
* rm_work waves at timeless 18:57
timelessYour loans: <one item> | have been transferred from Sampo Bank plc to Sampo Housing Loan Bank plc on <date>.18:58
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timelessYou are among those of our favoured loan customers whose loan (see loan numbers and ocrresponding capital above) and related collaterals have been transferred to Sampo Housing Loan Bank plc.18:58
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Specifically
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: even more appreciated to post that link somewhere, as it doesn't show up for me otherwise19:00
MohammadAGyay timeless's back :D19:00
timelessYou must contact your branch of Sampo Bank, use Web bank or call Sampo banks telephone service <number>, if you have a query about the loan, would like to have interest only, if you want to discuss other potential changes to your loan or apply for at new loan.19:00
timeless<typos in the above are *theirs*!>19:00
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timelessWell, it clearly wasn't written by a native speaker, and it clearly isn't a machine translation...19:01
JaffaDocScrutinizer: It's in the post. But it's the top thing in the email. Hell, it's the only thing I saw ;-)19:01
fiferboytimeless: You're enjoying Canada?19:02
timelessyes, it's great19:02
timelesswonderful weather (perhaps a bit sunny -- see sun burn...)19:02
timelessfriendly people (this is a big plus)19:02
rm_workyou're not in... FRENCH CANADA... are you? T_T19:03
timelesslots of things to do (this is a huge difference)19:03
timelessrm_work: no, Toronto is definitely not French Canada :)19:03
DocScrutinizerJaffa: fine, now I definitely know what to script19:03
fiferboyrm_work: He said friendly people, so no :P19:03
rm_workfiferboy: yeah :P19:03
* rm_work has to deal with french canadians for work T_T19:03
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* fiferboy does too, but not directly19:04
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, stop hitting F5, you'll get an email :P19:04
lardmanQuebec was interesting last year....19:04
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: or not, if it gets rejected by spamfilter like ~70% of Nokia mails19:05
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you'll see everyone talking about it then ;)19:05
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fiferboylardman: Interesting good?19:06
DocScrutinizerno, I won't as I'm not looking everywhere to see people talk about sth19:06
lardmanthe weather was nice19:06
* javispedro curses good weather19:06
lardmanI'd say we won't be planning to head back soon19:06
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: scripting the F5 hitting is definitely the better method19:07
javispedroI want clouds, DARKNESS!!19:07
fiferboylardman: Did you see any of English Canada?19:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, breaking it off they keyboard is even better :P19:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, and you're always on IRC, you'll see most of us talking about how we ordered N950s and are now waiting for them19:07
lardmanfiferboy: unfortunately not19:08
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so what? I got that "watch page" in FF19:08
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fiferboylardman: I drove sort of nearish to Bath in the fall19:09
lardmannearish meaning Scotland? ;)19:09
fiferboylardman: No, Cardiff to London19:09
* GAN900 contemplates driving to see the shuttle launch19:10
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* GAN900 gets lazy.19:10
fiferboyGAN900: It's your last chance!19:10
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timeless:(, no Finnish speakers?19:10
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lardmanoh right, pretty close then; if you're about again give us a shout, we have more rooms now19:10
DocScrutinizerGAN900: they still launch shuttles?19:10
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lardmanfinal F5, and nothing available yet19:12
* lardman heads for home, catch you all on the morrow19:12
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MohammadAGhmm, can someone create an instance of a class from itself?19:14
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, last one.19:14
GeneralAntillestimeless, Summer holiday? :P19:14
javispedroMohammadAG, stupid question? or is there something else?19:14
JaffaMohammadAG: Of course. Why not?19:15
timelessGeneralAntilles: ...19:15
javispedrohiya timeless19:16
jonwilIts perfectly fine to create an instance of a class from inside itself19:16
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MohammadAGjavispedro, stupid question ;)19:16
javispedrohappens sometimes..19:17
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* javispedro today for some reason forgot that "-" is used often to represent stdin/stdout in args and wondered why "_" didn't work, until I decided to do an ls and saw the _ file...19:18
jonwilfinding people who know stuff about otherwise undocumented parts of maemo is hard :P19:19
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jonwiland I am now convinced more than ever that we will never have source code for the mce binary that is usable on Fremantle :)19:21
timeless- isn't really a Maemo-ism19:21
timelessit's a standard Unix-ism19:22
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jonwilNor will we ever be able to replace the cell stack with ofono (too many undocumented pieces of the jigsaw there)19:22
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jonwilICD is also too closed to be of use19:22
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* timeless rotfl19:24
timelessNotification concerning transfer of residence19:24
timelessDear Client,19:24
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timelessYou requested a correspondence to Your application in English.19:24
slonopotamusjonwil: that's the main reason why i didn't attempt to run gentoo on n900. too much closed stuff.19:24
timelessWe are sorry to inform, but we cannot give a resolution in English.19:24
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GeneralAntillestimeless, that's a bit sad.19:25
timelessShort translation to the resultion, sent to You, is that since You have meoved permanently abroad (Canada), You no longer are covered under the Finnish social security system from <date> onwards.19:25
timelessYours sincerely19:25
timeless<Author -- who also wrote the Finnish thing which was considerably longer>19:25
timelessGeneralAntilles: what i find amusing is that she gave me what I wanted19:25
rm_worktimeless: you moved to Canada, permanently? how did i miss that, lol19:26
timelessbut she sent me two distinct letters: the official Finnish one and the unofficial English one19:26
timelessI guess they don't care about cost of mail delivery19:26
timelessrm_work: i mostly announced it on fb...19:27
timelessi've been here a month19:27
timelesswell, i also told people @MeeGo/SF19:27
timelesssince I was going to Toronto the following week..19:27
rm_workheh yeah, wonder if i wasn't paying attention or if we aren't FB friends :P19:29
rm_workah well, looks like i'm using Google+ now19:29
timelessrm_work: you should be able to find me if we aren't, i tried to add people between Jan and May (for Maemo people mostly May)19:30
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timelessi'm still waiting on G+19:30
timelessi got an invite after it ran out of slots19:30
rm_workme too19:30
rm_workthey add more slots like every hour or so19:30
MohammadAGI got an invite before it ran out of slots and I couldn't join19:31
rm_workjust got my invite on friday from hiemanshu19:31
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* MohammadAG has to wait 32 days19:31
hiemanshuif anyone wants invited, PM me your gmail ID19:31
MohammadAGcause that's when I turn 1819:32
hiemanshuMohammadAG: under 18 not allowed?19:32
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MohammadAGhiemanshu, yeah19:34
hiemanshuMohammadAG: thats stupid, I thought it was 13+19:34
cpscottihiemanshu: no.. it's G+19:34
jonwilGiven meego-on-N900, the only really closed source bits of software left right now are sgx, wl1251-cal (which I reverse engineered a while back and dumped notes on the wiki for IIRC), sysinfod (whatever that does), closed pulseaudio bits (never did find out what those do or why they need to be closed), libcal and BME19:34
jonwiland I think GPS blobs19:34
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MohammadAGThis feature is not available for your account19:35
MohammadAGYou must be over a certain age to use this feature.19:35
hiemanshucpscotti: hah19:35
hiemanshuMohammadAG: use fake ages :P19:35
MohammadAGhiemanshu, cba, they're only 32 days :P19:36
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I could change the world in 32 days! :P19:37
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hiemanshuF5 F5 F5 F519:38
hiemanshubleh, the DDP page is still empty :(19:38
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DocScrutinizerhehe, same here19:45
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hiemanshuI wonder why I dont have email yet19:49
grithey haven't found a trainee to check the list yet? :D19:51
timelesswhat's w/ the second big picture on that page?19:51
SpeedEvilThe corners change shape when you open the keyboard.19:52
SpeedEvilWhat an innovative idea!19:52
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* SpeedEvil patents.19:52
hiemanshuplus it gets extra buttons!19:53
jonwilAnyone know of a list of all the packages that come with a harmattan install on either n950 or n9?19:53
jonwilNot the SDK, the actual on-phone package list19:53
Stskeepsjonwil: pulseaudio stuff is basically nokia algorithms that help audio quality and other 3gpp mandated stuff19:54
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jonwilLooks like some of that stuff is opensource in Harmattan19:54
jonwilpulseaudio-meego, pulseaudio-policy-enforcement and some stuff like that19:54
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jonwiloh wait no, looks like they are just not in the SDK19:55
Stskeepsthink weve abstracted the algorithms out at least19:55
Stskeepsyou can work without them, fwiw19:55
jonwilso pulseaudio-module-nokia-algorithms and pulseaudio-module-nokia-common and pulseaudio-module-nokia-eci-parameters19:55
Stskeepsbut audio quality may suffer19:55
jonwilseem to remain19:55
jonwiland are presumably still closed in Harmattan19:55
Stskeepsyeah.. and those are pretty much fat chance to get released19:56
Stskeepsvery much of what makes a nokia phone nokia19:56
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jonwilyeah audio quality is a BIG point of difference with phone makers19:56
jonwilso algorithims that improve audio quality (esp call quality) are big business19:57
Stskeepsi want to transform them towards a lib or something like that so we arent hurt by pulseaudio updates, so thats one action point for me19:57
Stskeepsas at this rate we can assume at some point, the honey stops19:58
jonwilI think the answer would be to do something a bit like what NVIDIA does with their kernel blob for their GPUs19:58
jonwili.e. you figure out the minimum bits that must remain closed and transfer the code into static libraries which dont call any pulseaudio functions at all19:58
jonwilinstead they call glue code19:58
jonwilwhich then calls whatever pulseaudio bits they need to call19:59
Stskeepsthat is my plan, but lets see19:59
jonwilsomething else that I think is still closed is the stuff for speaker protection19:59
Corsacjonwil: wan't a dpkg -l on a n950 rootfs?19:59
Stskeepsjonwil: :nod:19:59
jonwili.e. to keep audio from damaning the speakers on the device19:59
* KMFDM didn't get an n950 :(20:00
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Stskeepsat least we dont have any closed kernel drivers20:00
KMFDMnor is the n9 going to be sold in my country i'll have to import from germany or something20:00
Stskeepsthat is just such a mess20:00
macmaNcryptsetup is on the device, i wonder what theyre doing with that20:00
RST38hStskeeps: Linux not having binary driver API is a part of this mess20:01
StskeepsRST38h: no disagreements20:01
jonwilyeah closed kernel drivers are a nightmare20:01
jonwilOften though what you get is a company that moves the closed bits to userspace20:01
jonwiland has a kernel shim that just does the actual hardware access20:01
jonwilsame as what BME does I guess :)20:01
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RST38hSounds like just an uglier case to do the same though20:02
jonwilso can anyone tell me just what sysinfod/libsysinfo actually does?20:02
jonwilbest guess is that it retrieves information from various system places (cal, secure storage etc)20:02
Stskeepsjonwil: good guess20:02
jonwiland that its closed because Nokia doesnt want people to be able to touch those secure areas20:02
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jonwilI am surprised that the libsysinfo headers are in the Harmattan SDK though20:03
MohammadAGChecking Maemo Heartbeat ... Not Found <-- wtf is Maemo Heartbeat20:03
StskeepsMohammadAG: libiphb20:03
Stskeepsvery interesting technology but noone uses it20:03
JaffaMohammadAG: That was/is the thing which synchronised network access IIRC20:03
jonwilAlthough it could be that sysinfo headers are in the SDK by mistake...20:03
JaffaBut it should've been implemented at the stack level, rather than being an API developers had to rewrite to use20:04
Stskeepsits just a dbus interface20:04
jonwilno, its both a dbus interface (/com/nokia/SystemInfo) and a library (libsysinfo)20:05
jonwilBoth the dbus interface and the library are documented through the headers in the Harmattan SDK20:05
Stskeepsthink that is just a dbus wrapper20:05
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jonwilalthough sysinfod links to libsysinfo20:06
jonwilso it might be the other way around20:06
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jonwilin any case its all documented20:06
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jonwilreading sysinfo.h I can see why some of this stuff is sensitive20:07
jonwilthings like wlan mac address20:07
jonwilor bluetooth ids20:08
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jonwilor imei20:08
jonwilsecure certificate access20:08
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jonwilI think I finally understand what all the closed-in-meego bits DO at long last :)20:11
jonwiland why they are closed20:11
Stskeepsin meego we have really tried to avoid blobs for no good reason, but some powers are just stronger than us :)20:12
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jonwilLike the FCC for example (referencing wl1251-cal here)20:12
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jonwilbeing that wl1251-cal appears to be responsible for important stuff related to detecting which of the different sets of wireless regulations should be used at the current time20:13
jonwile.g. FCC or EU or whatever20:13
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Stskeepsat least the situation is better than years ago, we can fairly easily get a binary-only license that can be redistributed for non commercial purposes20:14
Stskeepsthat is really a big step up20:14
wmaroneare these hardware specific bits?20:14
jonwilyes, all these bits are specific to the N90020:14
Stskeepsno closed source goes into meego trunk, trunk must not depend on them20:15
wmaroneok, just making sure I wasn't reading it wrong20:15
jonwilI just hope Nokia will give meego-ce all the needed blobs for meego-ce-on-n9(50)20:15
Stskeepsit makes the platform so much more portable than maemo ever was20:15
Stskeepsjonwil: we are very actively working on it20:15
jonwilI am sure20:15
jonwilN9 and N950 should be made first class citizens for meego-ce just as N900 is20:16
Stskeepsit has been running alongside meego ce images for a long time20:17
Stskeepsi would really like a proper upstream based kernel but that is in progress..20:17
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jonwilAre there technical reasons why the GPS bits on MeeGo N900 are closed? Reasons related to nokia-secret-ip like the pulseaudio bits? Or does it just need some sort of redo in the way ofono n900 support is a redo of the old cell stack?20:21
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: so I got opencv to compile on sbox for harmattan as well (with a few patches yes), now only to find a way to disable the aegis crap so I can test it when I get hold of it20:22
timelessjonwil: i'd hope that was answered by qgil ages ago..20:22
* timeless can't remember offhand20:22
jonwilI cant remember either20:22
timelessi know nokia has too much ipr in that area20:22
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jonwilI am guessing though its issues related to nokia secret IP related to making their GPS better than the other guys (including not wanting to let just anyone use their AGPS implementation and backend servers)20:22
timelessi think the low level drivers might be licensed from someone20:22
jonwilIIRC the lowlevel stuff for GPS is done on the cell modem20:23
SpeedEvilThe cellmo just spits out location20:23
* timeless tried not to pay attn to that stuff20:23
SpeedEvilPretty much20:23
Stskeepsjonwil: well, we get stuff working first, under redistributable license, but location based stuff is a differentiation thing :/20:23
Stskeepsi wouldnt mind if someone properly reversed the communication20:24
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Stskeepsbut even that didnt happen on n8x020:24
jonwiln8x0 GPS is very different arch to n90020:24
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SpeedEvilStskeeps: Someone has20:25
SpeedEvilStskeeps: n8x0 GPS is _vastly_ different20:25
Stskeepsbut even with that, agps info is needed20:25
SpeedEvilStskeeps: All the high level stuff is done in the CPU on the 8x020:25
SpeedEvilStskeeps: It's all done in the 'GPS' in the n90020:25
Stskeepsi know..20:25
SpeedEvilStskeeps: AGPS isn't actually needed20:25
SpeedEvilIt's nice, but not needed.20:25
Stskeepsvery useful if you dont have patience :P20:25
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rm_worki have a bluetooth GPS unit that gets a fix in <10s in almost every single case, even cold-boot across the globe.... so why is AGPS necessary? >_>20:27
Stskeepscos the antenna sucks in nokia devices20:27
rm_workridiculous T_T20:27
rm_workso they wouldn't NEED to have fancy proprietary agps code and servers.... if they just manufactured a phone with a decent GPS Antenna for once >_>20:28
jonwilbtw, about the low level communication, I have a file pn_location_isi.h taken from a Nokia QT SDK which seems to be a correct match for the N90020:28
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jonwilso the info on the actual interface to the cellmo over isi/phonet IS documented20:29
DocScrutinizeractually it seems AGPS as of APE doesn't really work - at least sometimes20:29
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DocScrutinizerAPlication proceesor Environment20:30
DocScrutinizeri.e. "linux"20:30
DocScrutinizeras opposed ti cmt20:30
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rm_workwait, what? so that translates to "AGPS doesn't really work on linux"?20:31
Choomrm_work: it is likely that your GPS device saves your last location so that it can speed up the syncing20:31
rm_worklike, presently20:31
rm_workChoom: as i said, even cold-boot across the globe :P20:31
DocScrutinizerlast time I checked a device with proper access to internet via WLAN (for SUPL) but without a SIM card to get GPS hints via GSM didn't acquire a fix20:31
SpeedEvilrm_work: I question if that's possible.20:31
rm_worki'm aware it can get a hot-fix, and THAT takes <3s20:31
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rm_workSpeedEvil: well, anyone i was with in Berlin saw it20:32
jonwilin any case I see no great obstacles in the way preventing someone (e.g. freesmartphone people) from doing usable GPS on the N90020:32
SpeedEvilrm_work: By cold boot, do you mean that has not been turned on in over 12 weeks?20:32
SpeedEvilOr has no stored data at all?20:32
rm_worki mean last time it was turned on, it was in Texas, and now it's in Berlin20:32
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SpeedEvilAh - that's a different case then.20:32
SpeedEvilIt has live almanac20:32
SpeedEviland probably ephimeredes.20:33
SpeedEvilSo you can plausibly get a position in on the order of 6 seconds.20:33
rm_workAFAIK it can't hot-fix outside of like.... a hundred miles or so20:33
jonwilEven the supl/agps issue can be dealt with (IIRC google provides a supl server)20:33
DocScrutinizerrm_work: the alm and ephem are global20:33
rm_workit was also able to get an accurate fix inside an airplane20:33
rm_workthat lead to hilarious speed readings20:33
SpeedEvilThe GPS satellites broadcast 'time' every 6 seconds.20:34
rm_worktracked my plane on the way to LAX for about 5 minutes20:34
DocScrutinizerafter that you got your current alm/ephem20:34
rm_workleft quite a quick trail :P20:34
DocScrutinizerif it's in storage20:34
SpeedEvilYou need to recieve at least one time signal. If you odn't have an almanac, or ephemerides, you need at least one 30s cycle of the signal.20:34
rm_workso then20:34
rm_workthe n810 / n900 GPS still has no excuse for taking 5 minutes20:35
rm_workthough the n900 isn't QUITE that bad20:35
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I think FSO guys made it down to st like 14s without stored pickle?20:35
SpeedEvilIt's not quite that simple. Sometimes there is a good excuse.20:35
SpeedEvilAs the recievers need to be individually tuned per satellite20:35
jonwilseems like using the Google supl server may help20:35
rm_workso again20:36
rm_workwhat advantage would my BT GPS have, if it was turned off at the same time as an n810 GPS in Texas, and then turned on at the same time in Berlin?20:36
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rm_workbesides a useful antenna? :P20:36
SpeedEvilrm_work: Better firmware, and possibly more correlators.20:36
DocScrutinizerrm_work: advantage is your BT mouse doesn't suck on GPS implementation ;-P20:37
rm_workwouldn't it have seen the same sattelites? :P20:37
SpeedEvilrm_work: The resciever has to search through a three dimensional 'space' to find the points that represent the current satellite position.20:37
SpeedEvilrm_work: Throwing enough hardware at it, one or two of these dimensions can be solved 'instantly'20:38
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SpeedEvil(within 20ms or so)20:38
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DocScrutinizerthose are the correlators20:38
jonwilanyhow, there is information that suggests that using the google supl server is better on the n90020:38
jonwilso I will give it a go :)20:38
jonwiland see what happens20:38
DocScrutinizerjonwil: NB usually the "supl" the GPS is using gets delovered via GSM network20:39
DocScrutinizerif you got any SIM inserted20:39
jonwilwell people said its better20:39
jonwilso it cant hurt to try it :P20:39
DocScrutinizeronly a few carriers don't support it on their network20:40
rm_workmy n900 is set to the nokia one...20:40
rm_worki will try changing it20:40
rm_workwhat is the google one?20:40
rm_worklol k20:40
MohammadAGfucking facebook20:40
DocScrutinizeryou'll most likely get random results unless you understand *exactly* what you're doing20:40
MohammadAGright after I implemented something I found out I can't access it with the API20:41
hiemanshuMohammadAG: language :P20:41
macmaNfuck facebook20:41
macmaNin the face20:41
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MohammadAGhiemanshu, didn't know this was a family channel20:41
GeneralAntilleshiemanshu, hey, this isn't #meego. :P20:41
macmaNafaik there are no females either20:41
macmaNjust guy talk all the way!20:41
rm_workyeah, Myrrti  is gone i think :/20:42
MohammadAGdoes it matter if there are females?20:42
rm_workto meego20:42
jonwilbtw, is nice to have20:42
jonwilnice to have that code to play with20:42
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: did you check if you have access yet?20:42
GeneralAntillesJust now.20:42
GeneralAntillesand no.20:42
hiemanshuMohammadAG: follow the fucking freenode rules20:42
jonwilit even includes all the root certificates and stuff20:42
DocScrutinizer (<---AGPS broken)20:42
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MohammadAGI mean, females swear all the time20:42
macmaNsince the ratio is like 1 to 1134 it makes sense to hold diversity precious and refrain from cursing20:42
hiemanshuMohammadAG: stop playing with their dolls then20:43
ruskieI never can install that certman20:43
ruskieshould probably try rolling my own20:43
hiemanshu'Digia Plc is a Finland base usability house that provides this service for EUR890' <--- LOLWAT20:43
tzafrir_laptopIf I sync my data from N900 with syncevolution, where does it store the actual synced data?20:43
Stskeepshiemanshu: hm?20:44
hiemanshuStskeeps: do you run it?20:44
Stskeepsrun what20:44
jonwilFYI, I can confirm that any certificates that would be used to access the nokia supl server are included as part of that maemosec package, i.e. there are NO certificates stored in the GPS code itself that I have seen :)20:44
hiemanshuStskeeps: Digia Plc :P20:44
jonwilwhich is useful for the freesmartphone guys :P20:45
hiemanshuStskeeps: 'Welcome to User Experience Evaluation Service! ' <--- launchpad thing20:45
macmaNhiemanshu: what about digia?20:45
Stskeepshiemanshu: no20:45
* MohammadAG puts on grammar nazi hat and visits the N950 wiki page20:45
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hiemanshumacmaN: 890 Euros to evaluate the UX20:46
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macmaNi guess it depends20:46
Stskeepshiemanshu: cheap20:46
hiemanshuStskeeps: cheap?20:46
Stskeepsi would be more expensive20:46
macmaNdepends on what exactly do they give you for that money20:46
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macmaNif it's just a poster saying "ROX" or "SUX"20:47
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macmaNi probably would pay $100 for that20:47
rm_worki work for a company that pays somewhere around $1,000,000 / year for licensing...20:47
hiemanshumacmaN: I'd give it to you and ask your opinion :P20:47
macmaNyeah but i expect one helluva designer poster20:47
macmaNart museum type shiznit20:47
rm_work890 Euro is kinda lolz20:47
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Stskeeps8 hours of qualified work20:48
hiemanshuwell 890 euros to me is a lot20:48
Stskeepsyou would be surprised how expensive a lot of activities are in mobile linux20:48
ruskiehehe... ~200eur more and it's my monthly pay20:48
hiemanshuStskeeps: maybe I should open a company that does that20:49
macmaNhiemanshu: that would be quite a welcome move20:50
macmaNcompetition is the only thing driving price down20:50
macmaNi might get my SUX poster for $5020:50
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jonwilanyone know if the Ageis stuff on the N9/N950 would get in the way of meego-ce on those devices?20:50
jonwili.e. whatever the security crap is20:50
hiemanshujonwil: ask DocScrutinizer :P20:51
infobotit has been said that aegis is, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: :-P20:51
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: anyways opencv compiles fine in sbox for harmattan20:52
hiemanshuwell it needs a few patches20:52
Stskeepsjonwil: no20:52
hiemanshuStskeeps: is the N950 bootloader closed? or did they leave it open?20:52
DocScrutinizerjonwil: actually meego-CE *has* problems with aegis, as they want to set up dualboot and that doesn't coexist with meegoHarm trusted mode20:53
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Stskeepshiemanshu: closed and developer mode20:53
DocScrutinizerI.E. for now it seems you lose meegoHarm when installing meegoCE20:54
Stskeepshiemanshu: specifics is a little hazy to me20:54
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DocScrutinizersomeone of Nokia is tackling it by publishing a bootloader that has Nokia signature and allows dual-boot - AIUI20:55
Stskeepshiemanshu: go read up about MOSLO20:55
MohammadAGanyone got their launchpad account? (someone got approved on fmc)20:55
DocScrutinizermoslo right20:55
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I did20:55
jonwilAt least this stuff is miles more open than either my previous Motorola motomagx phone OR pretty much any Android handset to date20:55
MohammadAGhiemanshu, I know you did :p20:56
hiemanshuMohammadAG: timoph and lardman|gone did too20:56
hiemanshuStskeeps: Mo'Slo Computer Slowdown Software ?20:56
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Stskeepshiemanshu: no, meego os loader or smth20:56
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DocScrutinizerwell, quoting incredible Mr SpeedEvil Stirling: Aegis is like a nuklear bomber deployed to keep the kids off the lawn20:57
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* Corsac sighs20:58
DocScrutinizerand I'm not quite convince aegis will make it into N9 mass market meego20:58
CorsacDocScrutinizer: we already know it won't20:58
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ruskiehope it doesn't20:58
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, wow, that's quite an accurate description20:58
Corsacthe meego security system is based on smack and ima/evm20:59
Corsachmmh wait, this is crap, it's about N9, sorry :)20:59
hiemanshuStskeeps: right, I was looking at it already :P20:59
Corsacbut please, people, don't confuse security and drm20:59
ruskiedrm is broken21:00
Corsacinstead of whining about aegis or MSSF, whine about who has the keys21:01
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SpeedEvilAnd what sort of alarm system do they have.21:01
MohammadAGheh, would've been lulz if that 130MB source had the keys21:01
DocScrutinizerCorsac: what do you think? The hw manuf has the rootkey, nothing else makes sense21:01
macmaNwhy exactly is lulz > lol these days21:02
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DocScrutinizerCorsac: as lonk as all systems have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey21:03
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: Corsac: as long as all systems have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey21:03
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: Corsac: as lonk as all devices have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey21:03
fiferboyDocScrutinizer: Now do both corrections together :)21:04
DocScrutinizeryou *could* ship each OMAP with its very unique rootkey, and give user access to the key via some magic passphrase printed *on the box*21:04
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DocScrutinizerfiferboy: she's too retarded to do that21:04
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Corsacor have some kind of hardware switch to “take ownership” of the device21:05
DocScrutinizerreally hard to implement though21:05
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jonwilbtw stskeeps, if you guys DO end up being able to abstract out the pulseaudio blobs into static libraries with glue code, I would like to suggest you abstract the dependency between and libbmeipc. I suggest this for the benefit of people doing the various work to replace BME with code that talks more closely to the hardware.21:05
DocScrutinizeras you need a secure path to that21:05
jonwilAnd since that one reference is the only place in the closed-bins that references libbmeipc21:06
Corsacyeah, it's easier to move a jumper on a motherboard than on a smartphone21:06
DocScrutinizerjonwil: MUHAHAHA good one21:06
Stskeepsjonwil: i would like to replace it with libbme21:06
DocScrutinizerjonwil: that'S a particularly weird and bizarre one anyway21:07
jonwilyes replacing it with libbme would then allow the closed libbmeipc to be dropped completly21:07
DocScrutinizerIt needs quite a fair bit of phantasy to imagine how audio and bme are related21:07
jonwilIt is related when the algorithim logic needs to obtain the battery temprature info21:08
Stskeepsprolly temperature21:08
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DocScrutinizerand I have a cornucopia of scary stories what it's meant for21:08
Stskeepsto blow up in your pocket, yours alone21:08
DocScrutinizeraaaah, so it's a special sort of alert sound? ;-P21:09
jaskalithium cold fusion device!21:09
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DocScrutinizermeh: a) reduce power to speakers when device is hot, for speakers' sake. b) reduce for power usage/temperature_of_bat's sake21:10
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DocScrutinizerc) make audio play a warning sound when bat low, no matter what21:11
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jonwilthe function that calls libbmeipc is called voice_temperature_timer_cb21:11
DocScrutinizerok, that's a clue :-)21:12
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I hope this line will show up on in a minute :-)21:12
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DocScrutinizerobviously voice_temperature_timer_cb gets called on a pace set by timer, to read out temperature of battery21:14
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jonwilwell that function has a pa_log call for the string Xprot inactive, shutting down.21:15
DocScrutinizernow we can do whatever we like with that info in PA closed blob... text-to-speech read it to speakers every minute ;-P21:15
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jonwilso its related to Xprot21:15
jonwilwhich AFAIK is the speaker protection21:15
DocScrutinizeror switch of ringtone when device is >38°C21:15
DocScrutinizerjonwil: xprot is speaker prot yep21:16
jonwilultimatly it logs a message Ambient temperature updated21:16
DocScrutinizerso probably Nokia's research resulted in a ambient_temp vs joule/min curve where speakers fail21:17
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jonwilso I am guessing that yes, the speaker protection requires the battery temp21:17
jonwilto protect the speakers21:17
jonwiland/or the device21:17
DocScrutinizerthermal management - the completely unknow black magic in embedded21:17
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DocScrutinizernobody seems have heard of it, nobody in FOSS seems to bother21:18
DocScrutinizerand well, usually you get away without it21:18
DocScrutinizerjust sometimes ...  BOOM :-P21:19
DocScrutinizeror *scortch*21:20
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DocScrutinizerblue magic smoke escapes21:20
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DocScrutinizerusually you expect EE to do a 105% job on avoiding such situations21:21
DocScrutinizerbut hten you'd also expect EE to do same 105% job on protecting speakers on a hw level21:22
DocScrutinizerof course *if* Nokia would've failed on some of those mandatory properties of their hw, you bet they'd not disclose the sw posterior hotfixes they implement21:23
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DocScrutinizerI hope for Nokia's sake this one is just for speaker protection, and not to avoid fatal battery overtemp21:24
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DocScrutinizeras on battery overtemp there's nothing less to do than *immediate* *total* shutdown of system21:25
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jonwilI am sure its only for speaker protection21:25
DocScrutinizeron a hw basis21:25
jonwilAny battery protection stuff would be in the closed source BME blob most likely21:25
DocScrutinizerprobably, but I'd hope it's a circuit in GAIA21:26
DocScrutinizerhowever bme *should* tell dsme or mce or whomever it may concern to throttle cpu clock to 250 max21:27
DocScrutinizer*before* max cell temp is reached21:27
DocScrutinizerto avoid hard immediate shutdown21:28
DocScrutinizeras there were reports of guys frying their cell by OC and mmenc or what's it called, I gather bme fails on that task21:29
DocScrutinizernot surprised21:29
DocScrutinizerbme seems to fail on so much21:29
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DocScrutinizerand obviously it also fails on complete system shutdown on cell overtemp, as does GAIA - if that report was true21:32
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ruskieit's el-reg... do you think they bother really?21:36
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DocScrutinizerwhere to download all the SDKs while they are fresh and uncensored? :-)21:38
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DocScrutinizerI guess I've seen a link on
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DocScrutinizerruskie: ALL! I want them ALL ;-D21:39
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*** kW_ has joined #maemo21:42 1.1GB downloading...21:43
DocScrutinizeranything else recommended?21:43
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DocScrutinizerETA 12..20h ;-P21:44
nucce2Hi, I having trouble running sudo gainroot. I got rootsh installed, it may be because of the reason that I got multiboot and booting on nr 2 that is power-kernel21:45
DocScrutinizerI'm afraid I'll never dl that stuff, unless I can resume21:45
nucce2sudo gainroot = root is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.21:46
DocScrutinizernucce2: unrelated21:46
nucce2DocScrutinizer, too?21:46
DocScrutinizerwhat's your current user? ( id )21:46
nucce2whoami = root21:46
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nucce2well I see the irony but I cant do anything.21:47
DocScrutinizerroot can't tun sudo gainroot21:47
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DocScrutinizerand honestly it seems a bit pointless, no? ;-)21:48
nucce2Ok, that may be true.. ;)21:48
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nucce2Yea, I cant disagree with you there.. bah, then its the problem that kernel-config command doesnt work21:48
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DocScrutinizertry >> su - user21:49
DocScrutinizerthen try again whatever it was that failed for you21:49
nucce2I cant even find the kernel-config command21:50
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DocScrutinizermight indicate it's one of the poorly configured apps that don't have a symlink from /usr/bin/foo to /opt/foopkg/bin/foo21:54
DocScrutinizeryou can tell from .desktop file exec line having a full pathname to /opt/*/*/*21:54
DocScrutinizersome funny people even claimed that'd be the "right way"21:55
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DocScrutinizerI got a different notion on that21:55
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khertanlaunchpad account reviewed ... can connect to launchpad now :)21:57
khertanstill no device21:58
khertanbut in progress21:58
nucce2found what the problem was21:58
nucce2thanks DocScrutinizer anyway.. ;(21:59
khertanStrange: Qemu button was enabled, but target does not match.22:00
khertan <<< someone have idea what this mean ? QtCreator QEmu didn't launch22:00
hiemanshukhertan: did you get an email?22:00
hiemanshuMohammadAG: one more ^22:00
DocScrutinizernucce2: what was it?22:01
khertanhiemanshu, no email22:01
khertanhiemanshu, just connect to see :)22:02
hiemanshuMohammadAG: + 2 more from the forum22:02
khertanhiemanshu, logout and login  was require22:02
hiemanshukhertan: awesome, we just have to wait22:02
khertanhiemanshu, yep22:02
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: so a lot more in the same boat as ours :)22:02
MohammadAGhiemanshu, nothing here :p22:03
hiemanshuMohammadAG: try logging out and back in22:03
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MohammadAGdoesn't matter, same22:04
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: you are in the second batch, you'll have to wait till everyone else is done :P22:04
hiemanshufrom the first batch22:04
MohammadAGhiemanshu, more like everyone who sent in the ID before me22:05
MohammadAGor actually applied22:05
khertanMohammadAG, indeed doesn't matter ... can't command device for the moment :)22:06
khertanw8 and see :)22:06
DocScrutinizerthe guy at Nokia droped the stack op printouts and collected the papers in random order22:06
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khertanDocScrutinizer, hum ... this explain why it slow for just validating 250 account ... print all email22:07
khertanrewrite number22:07
DocScrutinizerit's a HUGE stack of printouts ;-P22:07
khertanmade 3 copy for administration22:07
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khertanenter manually the id in an email for other guys22:07
khertanother guys print the email and give them to a poor new guy which enter id manually in the system22:08
DocScrutinizerkhertan: we know some guys are not as swift and familiar on scripting as others ;-D22:08
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: dont copy my conclusion :P22:08
khertannow i just hope it ll not be delivered by tnt22:09
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khertanlast tnt delivery take 5 months22:09
DocScrutinizerhell, if I had to script this with VBA and outlook, I'd probably be faster the manual way anyway X-P22:10
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DocScrutinizerso better hope for manual processes over there at Nokia ;-)22:11
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: all you need is some xdotool magic22:11
MohammadAGI'm wondering if I should ask someone to send it to me from IL or just wait for it22:12
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* DocScrutinizer ponders, scratches head, mumbles xdotool and wonders some more, shudders and turns away22:13
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: for now *nobody* got a 'regular' device yet. Once they get shipped, it will maybe take some days til it's your turn. Then some more days for shipping22:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ponder!22:14
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MohammadAGI'll do the former then22:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: this will be your F5 holiday in your memory22:15
MohammadAGI don't do F5s22:15
MohammadAGhiemanshu does push notifications for me :P22:16
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: hah22:16
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: dont like xdotool?22:16
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: honestly - enjoy your holiday, worry about N950 *later*22:17
DocScrutinizer~dict xdotool22:17
infobotcould not find definition for xdotool22:17
DocScrutinizersame here22:17
infobotaw, gee, DocScrutinizer22:17
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: you can program to do kb and mouse input events at specifc positions on the screen22:18
DocScrutinizeraaah, I faintly remember that stuff from my win95 times22:18
DocScrutinizernever seemed to work flawlessly and a general botch22:19
DocScrutinizeryeah, probably that's how such things are done in windows world22:20
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DocScrutinizerlast real memories abut redmonf stuff is a royal pita with making machine actually shut off on windows shutdown for windowsNT back in 2000 when I did XMLMaker22:23
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DocScrutinizer(XMLMaker = excel plugin
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DocScrutinizerI think that's been enough of windows for the rest of my life22:28
DocScrutinizeresp enough of VB22:29
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DocScrutinizereven back then I tried to pport XMLMaker to OpenOffice ;-P22:30
DocScrutinizermajor fail XD22:31
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hiemanshuits a linux thing :P22:32
DocScrutinizerinteresting. Thanks :-)22:33
hiemanshuI use it batch process my stuff on gimp :P22:34
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ico2due to (I think) accidentally overwriting all the kernel modules, my n900 doesn't boot (endlessly reboots). It's basically impossible for me to download a 150meg firmware image due to my internet connection. I can extract the kernel modules from the image on a remote server and download them seperately easily enough, any thoughts on how I can get the device going enough to copy the modules somehow? or am I just going to have to wait a week for the firmware i22:37
ico2mage to download?22:37
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mtnmanhello everybody22:43
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ShadowJKico2, pretty much22:43
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NIN101hmm, it might be possible for him to use a rescue initrd and copy the modules back, or?22:45
mtnmanis there a "deborphan" package available for maemo5?  i've done some searching and haven't found anything yet.  closest i could find was the debian package for armel arch.  is that suitable to use with maemo5?22:45
MohammadAGanyone got the link to add ssh keys to gitorious?22:45
ico2NIN101, yes, that's the hope22:45
MohammadAGI can't access it since git f'd up my account and my dashboard returns 50022:46
ico2NIN101, if I use flasher to load the standard kernel and an initramfs consisting of the modules, busybox and libc, I should be able to get something working perhaps?22:46
ico2although that does leave the problem of how to control the device. unless the kernel supports usb gadget serial port22:47
MohammadAGthanks frals22:47
NIN101ico2: probably22:47
ico2I guess I can do that with init scripts, but it'll be a bit tricky to do blind22:48
NIN101you basically get a shell22:48
NIN101and then it _should_ be possible to mount the rootfs of maemo and copy the modules.22:48
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ico2NIN101, is there any good way to activate a shell? or usb serial gadget or fbcon or something22:49
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ico2NIN101, that should do the trick :) thanks :)22:51
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mtnmanis there a "deborphan" or "cruft" package available for mameo5?  i have searched and not found anything yet. would a package from debian's archive for armel arch be suitable?22:56
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mtnmandon't all jump at once to answer my question!22:59
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KMFDMmtnman, debian's armel package might be suitable check the dependency version numbers against those in the maemo repos23:02
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mtnmanKFDM: thanks.  would it require a recompile or would the binary be ok?23:02
KMFDMmtnman, i THINK but don't quote me on this that it will just work if the dependencies match up23:03
mtnmanKMFDM: cool, thanks!23:04
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piggzdoes the n9/950 support activesync/mfe?23:10
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mtnmanKFDM: lenny's deborphan depends on libc >=2.7-1 but maemo5 has 2.5.2-1eglibc27+0m523:12
mtnmanoops...KDFDM ^^23:12
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Atariianyone here used Dbuscron?23:17
DocScrutinizerico2: NIN101: afail the meego rescue_initrd is pretty much uuseless as it comes without proper kbd driver, without ubifs, without ntfs for maemo rootfs, pretty much without *anything* you need to do anything reasonable23:17
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DocScrutinizerso while it's a nice tool in theory, in practice however I've not heard of anybody accomplishing anything with it23:20
DocScrutinizerlast user here finished recovering from dbus config edit just yesterday, by installing a full meego to eMMC, as he didn't get the job done with initrd23:21
NIN101yes but he can not download meego because it would take a week or so as he said, therefor I suggested he should use the rescue initrd. I know it was fckd some time ago (no keyboard map etc.), but iirc I recently read that it kinda got added finally. But, just checked it now, nope :/23:24
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DocScrutinizerwell, that has to be realy recently then, as jonwil failed on rescue-initrd last wee23:25
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ShadowJK"ntfs for maemo rootfs" <- lol?23:25
NIN101DocScrutinizer yes, just a few days ago23:25
Stskeepsinstead of bitching, send fucking patches23:26
DocScrutinizerwho's bitching, except you?23:26
DocScrutinizerI'm stating facts23:26
javispedroc'mon gentlemen23:26
DocScrutinizerwhile you love to bitch on me, it seems23:27
* javispedro notes his cloak has finally been downgraded to "contributor"23:28
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javispedro... ah, well, it had to happen23:29
GeneralAntillesOK, meme makers.23:29
GeneralAntillesfiferboy and I have had an excellent idea.23:29
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* javispedro thinks Stskeeps is a bit sensitive to criticism23:29
GeneralAntillesA demotivated poster for the N95023:29
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, cool story bro23:29
MohammadAGgood enough meme? :P23:30
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, and then I found five dollars.23:30
javispedroGeneralAntilles: "n950: you are not going to have it"?23:30
GeneralAntillesFor those of you who've seen Arrested Development.23:30
GeneralAntillesand are F5ing the Nokia Dev page.23:30
MohammadAGgimme gimme gimme!23:30
GeneralAntillesYou see where it says "No programs."23:30
GeneralAntillesThat reminds me immensely of the "No touching!" thing from Arrested Development.23:30
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, how about a tshirt: "If you have a N950 and show it, I'll mug you"23:31
GeneralAntillesSo, I need a screencap of one of the prison guards slapping the nightstick down on the table.23:31
GeneralAntillesHas the caps23:32
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javispedrostupid amazon, ship! ship! ship!23:34
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* javispedro cannot really believe I am pressing F5 more on the amazon page than the ddp page..23:34
MoonTigerjavispedro, what did you order from amazon?23:35
javispedromostly books =)23:35
MoonTigerdo you have a n950 on its way too?23:36
javispedrono launchpad account23:36
MohammadAGdon't forget the "yet"23:37
MoonTigerso i am curious about the n950 / n9 thing23:37
javispedroMohammadAG: optimistic, eh?23:37
MoonTigerassuming they have more n950s as is believed when do you think they will let ppl get them?23:37
MohammadAGjavispedro, always am23:38
MohammadAGignore the time I wasn't on the list :P23:38
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, ha, me too.23:38
GeneralAntillesContributors FTW!23:38
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javispedroat least I can now go around the webos channels without feeling like an enemy spy ;)23:40
MySpaezyou have a palm javis?23:40
MoonTigeror is the n9 going to be a dev-able device too?23:40
MySpaezHow is it?23:40
deimosI just go an email with "Product Loan Agreement" to send back signed :)23:40
MySpaezOf course mooniger23:40
MoonTigerhmmmmm ok23:40
MoonTigerso not getting a n950 isn't the end of the world then so to speak23:41
DocScrutinizerincredible, if I'd consider sending patches to every property $random somebody thinks $random software has and I know it doesn't... OhMy23:41
javispedroMySpaez: it's the most similar to maemo in hackability imho, but a step behind.23:41
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MoonTigerjust really wish there was an n9 with slide out landscape keyboard *sigh*23:42
DocScrutinizer"send fucking patches" pfff, I'm not even sure if that's a bug, a flaw, or a feature of rescue-initrd23:42
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ShadowJKmeego doesn't use the nand for anything, so missing nand support isn't surprising23:43
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you know the answer: noone that cared enough put work on it.23:43
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ShadowJKIt's so easy to put the uSD in your PC and fix whatever you broke :-)23:43
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DocScrutinizeranyway stskeeps isn't going to motivate anybody with this way to jump in to a consulting convo23:45
javispedroMohammadAG: I think I know many of those by now :)23:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: have to agree there.23:45
MohammadAGjavispedro, not all of them though :P23:45
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javispedrofscking Meego netbook installer that overwrites bootloders, worse than windows.23:47
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DocScrutinizerico2: you'll probably have to download the COMBINED image23:47
DocScrutinizerand flash that23:48
* javispedro feels dejàvú23:48
MohammadAGwhat's ico2's problem?23:48
DocScrutinizerdeleted *.ko23:48
* MohammadAG adds to javispedro's dejàvú23:48
MohammadAGwhich kernel?23:48
ico2DocScrutinizer, yeah :( was hoping to avoid spending days downloading the file23:48
ico2DocScrutinizer, yep23:48
MohammadAGand you never had power kernel installed?23:49
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you're brilliant23:49
ico2MohammadAG, nope23:49
MohammadAGico2, prefer downloading 150ish MBs or 400MBs without losing anything?23:50
ico2would prefer not to lose anything, if possible23:50
MohammadAGgot a microSD? if so what size?23:51
ico2nope, don't have one23:52
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ico2I have a backup from a month or two ago, so it wouldn't be a tragedy if I lost the data. not ideal. What am I looking at losing if I flash the standard firmware image?23:53
MohammadAGapps and modifications on rootfs23:54
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MohammadAGthe rest should stay23:54
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ico2damn net died, back now23:55
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DocScrutinizerbasically nothing, just the restore will download all the apps again you had installed, so until that's accomplished as well, you'll have none of the apps that were installed before23:55
ico2I have a backup from a month or two ago, so it wouldn't be a tragedy if I lost the data. not ideal. What am I looking at losing if I flash the standard firmware image?23:55
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> apps and modifications on rootfs23:55
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> the rest should stay23:55
ico2that's fine then23:55
ico2the download will take forever, but other than that it's ok23:55
ico2I'll probably just do that then23:56
DocScrutinizergood luck and good bandwidth23:56
ico2dialup :(23:56
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ico2ironically, I was trying to fix mobilehotspot to make use of the phone's net when I broke it, lol23:57
ico2anyway, I'll stop complaining and get to downloading that file23:57
ico2thanks for all the help and advice guys :)23:58
DocScrutinizerooh, so after you got the COMBINED image, your other apps get fast access to the internet then - good23:58
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DocScrutinizers/your/your download of/23:58
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: ooh, so after you got the COMBINED image, your download of other apps get fast access to the internet then - good23:58
DocScrutinizerico2: yw23:59
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ico2yep :) (assuming I can manage to position the phone in the one corner of the house that gets a 3g signal for long enough ;))23:59

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