IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-07-05

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Atarii`	is there a way to lock the N900 when the keyboard is slide up or if the right toggle button is flicked (for display)?	00:31
merlin1991	Atarii`: power button -> lock screen and keyboard	00:32
Atarii`	is there a way to change functionality so it does that automatically?	00:32
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javispedro	RST38h: have you seen http://static.bada.com/contents/tutorials/bada_SDK_1.2.0/badaTutorial.Fundamentals.pdf ?	00:37
javispedro	RST38h: seems that the Symbian guys are sharing some of their drugs with some koreans...	00:37
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Atarii`	is there a list of dbus scripts/functions anywhere?	00:39
ShadowJK	javispedro, page 10 so far and it seems sane	00:40
javispedro	ShadowJK: keep going	00:40
javispedro	ShadowJK: though on page 10 there's already the "Because data cannot be directly accessed, it is impossible for data	00:41
javispedro	to become corrupted, or to crash the device through data corruption" pearl.	00:41
alterego	Wow, looks like they're ran out of N950s: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/#article2	00:41
alterego	they've ...	00:41
javispedro	alterego: bummer, I guess I was right when I was saying there was only one N950.	00:41
javispedro	... and Jaffa got it ...	00:42
alterego	Hahah, yeah :)	00:42
ShadowJK	The ownership policy bit I don't really understand, are they saying you can't have two pointers to same object?	00:42
alterego	It makes me think though, that how much priority we as meego.com ddp acceptees get, if any.	00:42
javispedro	well, the one and only n950 owner got the maximum priority, the rest got zero.	00:43
javispedro	easy :D	00:43
alterego	Or whether they just go through the whole stack and we're probably at the end of the stack (as we're mostly non-launchpad loaners)	00:43
ShadowJK	The fact that they have mutexes implies you can access an object created in thread 1 from thread 2. I don't think that was possible in symbian :-)	00:44
alterego	Of course it's possible.	00:45
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ShadowJK	javispedro, dunno, it seems relatively sane for a dumbbphone+1 platform	00:48
ShadowJK	much saner than symbian	00:48
ShadowJK	which is maybe dumbbphone+2	00:48
javispedro	oh, that's for sure.	00:48
javispedro	but some of the quotes make me puke	00:48
ShadowJK	lol	00:48
ShadowJK	The stuff about data corruption being impossible stood out	00:49
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RST38h	javispedro: TWO	00:50
RST38h	javispedro: there are two guys on the list who have got their n950s	00:50
RST38h	ShadowJK: Possible in Symbian, just not sure how predictable =)	00:51
ShadowJK	I'm sure it threw a descriptive error message, like "KERN-8" or whatever ;-(	00:51
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RST38h	<sleep>	00:53
GeneralAntilles	Man, I figured we'd've had these things shipped out by Friday.	00:54
RST38h	(well, now, when you mentioned Symbian, I expect nightmares again)	00:54
javispedro	and then there's that finland meetup "laureates"	00:54
hiemanshu	alterego: so we get no N950 :( :( :(	00:54
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: I figured I'd win a million bucks in the lottery	00:54
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alterego	hiemanshu: neah, they've just got more requests than devices, which is pretty neat.	00:55
javispedro	RST38h: think about some other platform before actual sleep, like, Win32s.	00:55
hiemanshu	alterego: yeah, I was expecting that, there are more geeks than devices :P	00:55
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alterego	hiemanshu: actually, I think it shows a commericial interest in the platform too.	00:56
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: I am going to predict there's no way the devices are shipped before _next_ friday.	00:57
* hiemanshu shoots javispedro		00:57
alterego	All of these people (outside of sub programmes like meego.com) had to already have a launchpad account and app/s published in Ovi	00:57
hiemanshu	Jartza: dont jinx it	00:57
javispedro	though you might start seeing launchpad applications approved tomorrow. one by one.	00:57
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, oof.	00:57
javispedro	fifth batch first.	00:57
GeneralAntilles	That'd be, unfortunate.	00:57
alterego	javispedro: I think they'll ship by this friday	00:57
hiemanshu	:(	00:57
GeneralAntilles	But given Elop's slow destruction of the company, probably expectable.	00:58
javispedro	allow me to emphatize the "slow" keyword.	00:58
javispedro	*emphasize	00:58
DocScrutinizer	F5	01:00
javispedro	Alt+F4	01:00
DocScrutinizer	indeed	01:00
hiemanshu	shutdown -r now	01:01
javispedro	I can already envision an email telling us launchpad "applicants" that the three n950s are already sold out, but we should not worry, as they are going to ship us a newer and finer WP7 device.	01:02
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hiemanshu	javispedro: as long as that is flashable with meego CE I am fine :P	01:03
javispedro	then get an htc..	01:04
javispedro	=)	01:04
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hiemanshu	javispedro: use android and then end up hanging myself?	01:04
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javispedro	or install meegoCE there.	01:04
hiemanshu	I'll hang myself before I even get there :P	01:05
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DocScrutinizer	F5 F5 F5 F5	01:13
DocScrutinizer	grrrr	01:13
DocScrutinizer	http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24873&postcount=381	01:13
merlin1991	:D	01:14
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: cool down, go listen to some beatles	01:14
DocScrutinizer	dead kenedy's	01:15
DocScrutinizer	kennedies?	01:16
hiemanshu	kennedy's	01:16
DocScrutinizer	eeeek my laptop beeps on shift-numlock	01:17
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, I think you're still pretty much in the same boat as the rest of us.	01:17
DocScrutinizer	with 2 different tones :-P	01:17
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: I feel worse, as I dunno what to lok for	01:18
DocScrutinizer	look*	01:18
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa got an email.	01:18
hiemanshu	well if DocScrutinizer is ahead of us, or leading us, we should be prepared to die	01:18
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GeneralAntilles	So set up an email filter to sound klaxons when you get a subject line containing "N950"	01:18
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: you get an email telling 'You have a N950 waiting for you'	01:18
hiemanshu	or something	01:18
* DocScrutinizer checks mail		01:19
GeneralAntilles	I modified the script a bit to play Celebration.	01:20
GeneralAntilles	As well as discoing the lights.	01:20
hiemanshu	mine plays 'I feel good' :P	01:20
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hiemanshu	anyways I am off to sleep	01:21
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: I hope the voice input is trained to bring a coffee on each sigh, and a brandy on each swearword ;-D	01:21
hiemanshu	Night all	01:21
DocScrutinizer	sudo make me a wodka on ice	01:22
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GeneralAntilles	I still want to put together a multi-room PA.	01:23
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hiemanshu	ok, this is odd, apt-get install doesn't work - Handler failed silently, but upgrade works just fine	01:29
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Jartza	nights	01:31
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: now LaunchPad's going to get revenge on you because you found the way to bypassing the evil application system!	01:32
DocScrutinizer	And now I'm even supposed to follow TWITTER? To keep up to date with DDP?	01:33
javispedro	it could be facebook.	01:33
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DocScrutinizer	If I'm ever going to use these loser services, you can expect me to be replaced by a poor imitation	01:34
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Sicelo	hi everyone	01:34
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Sicelo	my n900 doesnt receive files via bt	01:35
derf	I thought the entire point of those services was to replace people with poor imitations.	01:35
Sicelo	newly-flashed.. and no apps installed. what checks would u suggest?	01:35
DocScrutinizer	errr	01:37
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DocScrutinizer	never tried that	01:37
DocScrutinizer	btobexpush?	01:38
* DocScrutinizer muses over ps ax		01:38
DocScrutinizer	2033 user 3208 S /usr/lib/obex/obexd --nodaemon --opp --ftp --pcsuite	01:38
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DocScrutinizer	might be related	01:39
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DocScrutinizer	956 root 3408 S /usr/sbin/bluetoothd -n	01:40
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Sicelo	thanks DocScrutinizer. will check just now	01:41
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Sicelo	i have both of those :/	01:42
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DocScrutinizer	dunno if "receiving files per bt" is meant to be supported ootb	01:43
ShadowJK	works out of the box for me	01:43
DocScrutinizer	I gather you need BT profile obexftp	01:43
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Sicelo	it should work.. it occurs to me that's why contacts synch isn't working via bt from my old phone	01:44
ShadowJK	that's file browsing	01:44
hiemanshu	Finally quassel works on the phone	01:44
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ShadowJK	Um, contacts synch is entirely differnet topic from file sending.	01:44
rafael2k	people, does the N900 have an FPU?	01:44
ShadowJK	rafael2k, yes	01:44
ShadowJK	rafael2k, two in fact	01:44
rafael2k	great.	01:44
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DocScrutinizer	two?	01:45
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DocScrutinizer	dsp?	01:45
ShadowJK	VFP and Neon	01:45
DocScrutinizer	aah	01:45
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ShadowJK	x86 also has two, SSE* and x87 :)	01:45
Sicelo	all kinds of sending i've tested fine.. but all types of receiving from any device fail	01:45
DocScrutinizer	yeah	01:45
ShadowJK	Sicelo, how do they fail?	01:46
rafael2k	but to what FPU does the commom maths code created by gcc/libc go to?	01:46
DocScrutinizer	visibility?	01:46
ShadowJK	rafael2k, probably vfp?	01:46
rafael2k	great. I'll compile darkice (audio streamer) for the N900 and all encoder it uses make use of float math	01:47
ShadowJK	what	01:47
Sicelo	eg, my 9300i just crashes completely when sending to n900. the n900 just shows a blue bt icon briefly. i tested sending from the 9300i to my n-gage fine	01:47
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ShadowJK	rafael2k, you probably want to benchmark that stuff first, if it has both integer and float versions	01:47
cehteh	rafael2k: porting cinelerra to n900? :)	01:48
rafael2k	cehteh: ; )	01:48
rafael2k	cehteh: not yet	01:48
cehteh	haha	01:48
rafael2k	ShadowJK: no integer version yet...	01:48
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ShadowJK	My E75 doesn't crash when trying to send files via bluetooth	01:49
ShadowJK	(and neither do my N800, N810, N900(	01:50
ShadowJK	)	01:50
Sicelo	yay.. maybe i should send back the n900 :(	01:50
DocScrutinizer	I bet you should send back the 9300i	01:51
rafael2k	but a simple video editor for the N900 would be interesting	01:51
Sicelo	:)	01:51
* Sicelo will try from a different device once more tomorrow		01:51
GeneralAntilles	N950! N950! N950!	01:52
* GeneralAntilles looks around.		01:52
ShadowJK	general rule: 9300i must not crash even if other devices would try to make it crash	01:52
cehteh	N1000	01:52
DocScrutinizer	~trout GeneralAntilles	01:52
* infobot slaps GeneralAntilles around a bit with a large trout!		01:52
GeneralAntilles	OK, it's not Beetlejuice.	01:52
rafael2k	something like avidemux could be adapted to run.	01:52
hiemanshu	Generalantilles email?	01:52
GeneralAntilles	Nope.	01:53
hiemanshu	:(	01:53
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, oh shut up :P	01:53
DocScrutinizer	I'm quite reluctant as I think we all will give the loaner back rather soon - and I for sure am not interested in N9	01:54
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: if you do that again I'll steal your N950	01:54
DocScrutinizer	technically it's not his N950	01:55
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, recall Nokia's past loans.	01:55
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hush hush :)	01:55
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: never were from a limited resource	01:55
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DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: au contraire, sometimes	01:56
Dhraakellian	so, when my n900 says that all telephony functions have been disabled, and I may need to reboot to reenable them, is there any way to get it to try again without rebooting?	01:56
ShadowJK	It's bad enough that us normal people aren't going to be able to purchase an N900 upgrade, and that our N900s hw lifespan is likely short, and that our N900 warranty is most likely useless as Nokia is insisting now on replacing with useless crap like N8 instead of repairing.. must you additionally remind us of that SOME people will get upgrade "free" ;P	01:57
Dhraakellian	some sort of service restart?	01:57
DocScrutinizer	Dhraakellian: cycle flight mode	01:57
DocScrutinizer	Dhraakellian: but honestly that sounds like you're in for an N8	01:58
Dhraakellian	:þ	01:58
* hiemanshu is off to sleep for real		01:58
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: i doubt nokia will be asking for them back	01:58
ShadowJK	Dhraakellian, iirc I played with cmt_* variables in /sys/....something.../gpio/.. cycling cmt_en,cmt_rst,cmt_rst_rq... iirc there was a sequence, and timing, that made cellmodem and stuff restart	01:58
ieatlint	and if they do, i suspect there will be a sudden rash of muggings	01:58
Dhraakellian	well, I was getting this all the time a while back, and then I bent the sim card pins up slightly, which seemed to make the error stop for a while	01:59
ShadowJK	Conditional on the disturnace causing cellmodem to crash/disconnect not occuring during that sequence or time after	01:59
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: you know there are worldwide locklists for IMEI	01:59
ieatlint	i don't, but i do know that the US carriers won't blacklist IMEIs	02:00
ShadowJK	Yeah, when it happened to me, various tricks like that made the problem less worse for a few days	02:00
ShadowJK	Ultimately the problem seems entirely unrelated to the actual simcard holder	02:00
Dhraakellian	it has been dropped a few times	02:01
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Dhraakellian	I will admit that	02:01
Dhraakellian	and it's out of warranty	02:01
Dhraakellian	(and I got it used anyway)	02:01
ShadowJK	I had never dropped mine	02:01
trx	3 people droped mine..	02:01
trx	now i only show it from my hands :)	02:02
Dhraakellian	if the n9 had a keyboard and µSD, I'd consider it	02:02
ShadowJK	yep	02:02
* DocScrutinizer wonders if N900 has an EM issue in cmt		02:02
Dhraakellian	although µSD is less of a concern with 64GB internal	02:02
trx	DocScrutinizer EM?	02:02
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DocScrutinizer	electromigration	02:02
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Dhraakellian	that the unleaded solder thing?	02:03
DocScrutinizer	not really	02:03
DocScrutinizer	that's more the thing that kills chips on overload, sloooowly	02:03
DocScrutinizer	e.g. on OC	02:03
trx	like, a buildup of electrons?	02:03
Dhraakellian	ah	02:03
Dhraakellian	I personally have never OCed my n900	02:04
DocScrutinizer	~wiki electromigration	02:04
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{No footnotes\|date=July 2010}} 'Electromigration' is the transport of material caused by the gradual movement of the ions in a conductor due to the momentum transfer between conducting electrons and diffusing metal atoms. The effect is important in applications where high direct current densities are used, such as in microelectronics and related structures. As the structure ...	02:04
Dhraakellian	but, as I said, I got it used	02:04
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, or desolder issue, as mine was 100% reliable when on a table, untouched. Any sort of pressure at the centre of main body, or light pressure on battery (with door open), reliably made cmt go away	02:04
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javispedro	first (or nth?) casualty of the harmattan vs meego confusion	02:04
javispedro	http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24871#post24871	02:04
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: clearly poor soldering then	02:05
ShadowJK	it'd play netradio reliably sitting on table with keyboard open, and then music died when I pressed "h" :)	02:06
ShadowJK	netradio over 3g of cours	02:06
ShadowJK	e	02:06
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: casualty? sounds sane to me	02:07
javispedro	oh, if you let him go ahead and download meego 1.2 sdk, he'll find that	02:07
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javispedro	a) there's no mention of harmattan anywhere	02:07
DocScrutinizer	ooh	02:07
javispedro	b) the "meego qml components" are not yet compatible with harmattan's	02:08
javispedro	c) he has no way to package any kind of harmattan .deb app	02:08
javispedro	d) proffit.	02:08
DocScrutinizer	so meego 1.2 is CE?	02:08
ieatlint	there's a harmattan sdk	02:08
javispedro	there's like two harmattan sdks.	02:08
javispedro	and none of them are the meego one.	02:08
DocScrutinizer	haha	02:08
ieatlint	yeah	02:09
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: CE is currently meego 1.2.sth, and will be 1.3 in the future, and so on.	02:09
ieatlint	and there's a whole set of harmattan-specific APIs	02:09
DocScrutinizer	~lart meego confusion	02:09
* infobot holds meego confusion to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails		02:09
DocScrutinizer	try again!	02:09
DocScrutinizer	~lart meego confusion	02:09
* infobot puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at meego confusion		02:09
merlin1991	~feed	02:10
* infobot cooks <target> a succulent, tender, slightly moist steak		02:10
merlin1991	:D	02:10
merlin1991	that'd been awesome	02:10
DocScrutinizer	ouch	02:10
DocScrutinizer	~literal feed	02:10
infobot	"feed" is "<action> cooks <target> a succulent, tender, slightly moist steak"	02:10
merlin1991	but I think I was looking for	02:10
merlin1991	~snack	02:10
DocScrutinizer	~literal feed x	02:10
* infobot belches loudly. Oup, 'begpardon.		02:10
* infobot offers x some toe-jam		02:10
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo feed	02:12
infobot	feed -- created by Shirik <i=nospam@rrcs-67-78-171-230.se.biz.rr.com> at Tue Mar 6 07:38:21 2007 (1581 days); it has been requested 12 times, last by merlin1991, 2m 11s ago.	02:12
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DocScrutinizer	~ literal cmd: feed (.*?)	02:13
infobot	"cmd: feed (.*?)" is "($1): <action>offers $1 some (herring\|horseraddish\|toe-jam\|pizza)"	02:13
DocScrutinizer	~forget feed	02:13
infobot	DocScrutinizer: i forgot feed	02:13
javispedro	and this thread is TheDailyWTF worthy -- http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3735 -- in fact, I am seriously considering submitting it..	02:13
DocScrutinizer	~feed x	02:15
* infobot offers x some toe-jam		02:15
DocScrutinizer	~feed	02:15
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javispedro	~feed the codez	02:15
* infobot offers the some codez, accompanied by a candle lit table overlooking the's favorite locaton. With music and waiters poised to leap to any of the's wishes.		02:15
javispedro	#feed developer codez	02:15
javispedro	~feed developer codez	02:15
* infobot offers developer some codez, accompanied by a candle lit table overlooking developer's favorite locaton. With music and waiters poised to leap to any of developer's wishes.		02:15
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Dhraakellian	~feed code monkeys caffeine	02:16
* infobot Takes caffeine, hands it to a profesional 5 star restaurant staff, who expertly shove caffeine down code monkeys's throat then throws code monkeys out into the back alley with the rest of the trash.		02:16
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DocScrutinizer	hah, ibot superpowaz, made her forget a 4 year old factoid	02:19
infobot	welcome, doc!	02:20
javispedro	"the bug has fixed" as commit message	02:20
* javispedro commits murder		02:20
DocScrutinizer	LOL	02:20
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DocScrutinizer	"when you reads this, the commit went thru"	02:21
javispedro	I need one of those cat pictures saying something along the lines of "I'm here reverting your commits"	02:21
* DocScrutinizer hands javispedro CHEEZBURGA		02:22
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DocScrutinizer	anyway	02:22
DocScrutinizer	ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!	02:23
javispedro	ALL OUR N950 ARE BELONG TO ..... hmm	02:23
javispedro	NOT US!	02:23
* Dhraakellian never quite figured out exactly what NFC does		02:24
* Dhraakellian should probably look around more		02:24
DocScrutinizer	~nfc	02:24
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, nfc is No Fucking Clue	02:24
DocScrutinizer	;-P	02:24
Dhraakellian	badumbum	02:24
DocScrutinizer	nfc is a sort of rfid barcode labels	02:25
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Dhraakellian	huh.	02:26
DocScrutinizer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication	02:26
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ieatlint	i want a cheeseburger	02:27
ieatlint	and yeah, nfc is like qrcodes, but without struggling to get your phone's camera to focus with the right light/angle	02:28
ieatlint	and then a few extra random features... like nokia makes bluetooth headsets with nfc -- hold it to the phone, and the phone pairs with it	02:29
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nox-	isnt nfc vulnerable to ppl pointing at your phone from further away with a `big' antenna?	02:30
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Termana	good morning	02:33
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nox-	(its also used (planned?) for paying public transport fares etc...)	02:34
ieatlint	it may be vulnerable to that	02:35
ieatlint	and rfid cards that are nfc-compliant are used for public transit in many cities (amsterdam, london, san francisco)	02:35
ieatlint	and phones are capable of imitating those cards... but i don't know of a system that allows that presently	02:36
nox-	heh	02:36
ieatlint	(but there are ones for emulating mastercard credit cards)	02:36
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GeneralAntilles	Get 'em while they're hot: http://www.mobino1.com/product-1495.html	02:45
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DocScrutinizer	\o/ another NOKLA phone	02:46
GeneralAntilles	It's 1st-gen iPod thick.	02:46
DocScrutinizer	always the same dual sim chipset	02:48
ieatlint	hahaha	02:49
ieatlint	almost worth the 62EUR	02:49
DocScrutinizer	well, 64$ - seems a fair deal no matter how crappy the thing	02:49
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DocScrutinizer	5.0MegaPiexls (SIC!)	02:52
DocScrutinizer	""Designed in Finland"" MUHAHAHA	02:52
trx	lol	02:53
nox-	haha	02:53
cehteh	hey the look is nice with the folding keyboard ..	02:54
cehteh	also the price is ok	02:54
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cehteh	but the rest is crap :D	02:55
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cehteh	Support TF card extend to 4GB max	02:55
cehteh	wtf is a TF card?	02:55
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cehteh	Totally Fucked Card?	02:56
ieatlint	it's an e7 knock-off	02:56
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, the Chinese rented some rack space in a Finnish data center and VNCed in?	02:56
cehteh	Dual cameras/2.0 Mega pixel camera for Picture & Video capability	02:56
cehteh	haha .. Piexels != Pixels	02:57
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DocScrutinizer	hey, comes with TWO 2Ah-batteries!	02:57
trx	yeah right :)	02:57
ds3	piexels might be tasty	02:57
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cehteh	haha listen to that flash video on that side	02:58
cehteh	HahaHaHA	02:58
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trx	"·Alarm clock:5 groups, support alarm clock when machine’s closed, can set from Monday to Sunday"	02:59
trx	wow, monday to sunday	02:59
trx	this is some advanced technology	02:59
trx	:)	02:59
ieatlint	the n900 knock off was also pretty entertaining	02:59
GeneralAntilles	I'd love to meet the creators of these devices.	02:59
GeneralAntilles	I wonder if they approach their jobs seriously.	03:00
ieatlint	hehe	03:00
ieatlint	if i had more disposable income, i'd buy this	03:00
cehteh	2batteries (2000mAh) .... means 1000mAh each	03:00
ieatlint	and next time i go to nokia, i'd bring it as my phone	03:00
trx	hahaha	03:00
cehteh	i wonder if one of this chinese crap manufacturers could just blow all his OS sources into the web	03:02
cehteh	that would be appealing	03:02
DocScrutinizer	related: NCKiA C3 yeah	03:03
cehteh	well technically prolly only one OS and HW design exists for this phones and they only adapt the cases :P	03:03
cehteh	Weight:500.000 (g)	03:03
cehteh	bit heavy :P	03:03
cehteh	(even if they mean only 500gramms)	03:04
DocScrutinizer	way dwn they say 132g	03:05
cehteh	hehe ok	03:05
DocScrutinizer	500 is the box I guess	03:05
cehteh	do this phones actually work?	03:05
DocScrutinizer	well, by any definition of work they may	03:05
cehteh	i mean can you expect that the OS crashes every few hours? .. or do european providers blacklist badly implemented/unlicensed stacks?	03:06
DocScrutinizer	though the video shows phone requesting "insert SIM" while obviously he did ;-P	03:06
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cehteh	http://www.mobino1.com/product-1519.html	03:07
DocScrutinizer	these are all based on a tested and probably working chipset that comes with a cheap symbian or whatever	03:07
cehteh	awesome design ..	03:07
cehteh	you think thats symbian?	03:07
cehteh	hehe i want this HANMAC ... looks like a digital watch from the end of the 70's became a smartphone :P	03:08
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Dhraakellian	cehteh: you hold it like the klingon communicator in Star Trek III	03:11
DocScrutinizer	NOKLA and NCKIA, they are really clever, those Chinese ;-D	03:11
Dhraakellian	hmm...	03:11
Dhraakellian	western union payment?	03:11
cehteh	support incoming call with big head sticker	03:11
Dhraakellian	gotta be legit	03:11
cehteh	wtf .. haha	03:11
cehteh	Lithium Batteries:6800mAh	03:12
cehteh	hey i want that in my n900	03:12
DocScrutinizer	no you don't ;-P	03:12
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Dhraakellian	What's not to like about 6.8 amp-hours?	03:13
cehteh	Piexs: 240×320px	03:13
DocScrutinizer	yoh	03:13
cehteh	do they use a permutation generator for producing the translations?	03:13
DocScrutinizer	nah, for producing the phones	03:13
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DocScrutinizer	even while it's not mentioned in this ad, I seem to recall the chipset has 64MB	03:14
cehteh	WE DO NOT REPAIR OR REPLACE ITEMS WITH AN EXPIRED WARRANTY.	03:14
cehteh	hey ... like nokia!	03:14
DocScrutinizer	storage	03:14
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cehteh	http://www.mobino1.com/product-2093.html with real android?	03:16
DocScrutinizer	no way, the chipset doesn't allow	03:17
Dhraakellian	cehteh: no, it's a fake fake person	03:17
cehteh	haha girl-phone category .. phones with one button and so on :)	03:18
cehteh	ok closing that page ..	03:19
DocScrutinizer	hmm, maybe	03:19
DocScrutinizer	IMEI:3556*857 IMEI:3556*865 WTF?!	03:21
cehteh	come on IMEI's are expensive you didnt expect them to be unique?	03:21
Termana	cehteh, I SEE WHAT YOUR IMPLYING THAR	03:22
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Termana	---> <cehteh> haha girl-phone category .. phones with one button and so on :)	03:22
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GAN900	Every weird person in the city has to come and fill up the neighborhood to see the fireworks.	03:24
DocScrutinizer	the "android" phone comes with >>Analog tv free<< and telescope antenna	03:24
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	03:24
GAN900	Lotta bad drivers.	03:24
DocScrutinizer	too bad here's no more analog TV at all :-P	03:25
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: one of the n900 had a telescope antenna too	03:25
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DocScrutinizer	when I was in a shopee nearby, asking for a holster for my N900, another dude can in with a N900 NOKLA and asked for repair X-P	03:27
DocScrutinizer	s/can/came/	03:28
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: when I was in a shopee nearby, asking for a holster for my N900, another dude came in with a N900 NOKLA and asked for repair X-P	03:28
Dibblah	For some reason, there's not many fireworks over here. Can't think why.	03:28
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DocScrutinizer	Dibblah: eh?	03:29
Dibblah	Not many people round here celebrate July 4th...?	03:29
GAN900	Somebody really needs to connect XChat with libconic	03:29
DocScrutinizer	meanwhile: treasure worth maybe 15 billion € found in an indian temple, now guarded by 100 policemen	03:30
DocScrutinizer	I wonder how many rogue Presidents consider sending a company of soldiers	03:31
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GAN900	Tough to fence	03:31
GAN900	If you're a rogue president you're better off rining the IMF.	03:32
DocScrutinizer	my dict fails	03:32
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DocScrutinizer	and what's IMF	03:33
GAN900	International Monetary Fund	03:33
GAN900	and dict fails on what?	03:33
DocScrutinizer	aaah	03:33
DocScrutinizer	~dict rining	03:33
infobot	could not find definition for rining	03:33
GAN900	Ah, oops	03:34
GAN900	Ringing	03:34
nox-	hah	03:34
nox-	you had me wondering as well :)	03:34
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GAN900	What is up with musicians putting sirens in their mixes.	03:35
GAN900	Public safety hazard.	03:36
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*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council \| Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources \| Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED"		03:38
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FIQ	just wonder, whose idea was it to do a "Connections" section in "Phone" part of settings, AND a Connections part?	04:10
FIQ	that is seperate of phone	04:11
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DocScrutinizer	FIQ: a "Connections" section in "Phone" ?	04:29
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: It's for sure a bit strange to have the data counters in "Phone", but I can't spot any "Connections" section in "Phone" of settings	04:30
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jonwil	~seen MohammadAG	05:17
infobot	mohammadag <~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7h 38m 49s ago, saying: 'noobmonk3y, working apparently :P'.	05:17
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Parslee	i see seas of meat	05:37
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Parslee	LOL	06:39
Parslee	vermicious knids	06:42
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Parslee	turn off the tv forever	07:16
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sw0rdf15h	Hello	07:36
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Parslee	hi	07:40
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hiemanshu	Morning everyone	07:46
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jonwil	ok, since turning the mce source code for MeeGo or Harmattan into code that matches Fremantle is impossible, time to go back to the other project I am working on and write some complete documentation on how to write a new tklock systemui plugin	08:15
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slonopotamus	anyone successfully booted openwrt kernel on n8x0? for some reason it hangs after mounting root partition and freeing unused memory (init is supposed to be started just after it)	08:20
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crashanddie	slonopotamus, topic?	09:03
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slonopotamus_	crashanddie: that's maemo init :P	09:09
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crashanddie	"PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED"	09:09
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MohammadAG	I thought it also said stay clear of shit	09:11
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jonwil	hi MohammadAG	09:15
MohammadAG	hey jonwil	09:16
jonwil	The work to turn the MeeGo and Harmattan mce code into usable Fremantle mce code was a bust	09:17
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jonwil	because of too many changes in powerkey and devlock	09:17
MohammadAG	why? what would break?	09:18
jonwil	well MeeGo mce code has no devlock code at all	09:18
MohammadAG	what's devlock?	09:19
jonwil	device lock I believe	09:19
MohammadAG	can't it be implemented manually?	09:20
jonwil	no, not really	09:20
MohammadAG	It's just a dialog that compares the code enter with cal's lock-code value	09:20
MohammadAG	with some dbus calls	09:20
jonwil	Its not that simple from what I can tell	09:20
jonwil	but even given that, there are too many differences in the powerkey code to get something that works on Fremantle without breaking stuff	09:20
jonwil	and in the tklock code	09:20
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jonwil	the devlock code for example installes handlers to 5 different datapipes (whatever those are) as well as at least 2 dbus handlers	09:25
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jonwil	I do plan to see which of the mce modules/plugins I can come up with usable code for though	09:27
jonwil	But right now I am about to make a mailing list post giving all the details you need to replace the tklock systemui plugin	09:27
ruskie	tklock?	09:28
jonwil	toucscreen/key lock	09:28
ruskie	ahh	09:28
jonwil	its the slide-to-unlock screen among other things	09:28
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jonwil	and since MohammadAG is working on a new lockscreen, being able to replace the stock lockscreen instead of simply sitting on top of it seems like a useful goal	09:33
Robot101	remember the lock screen can also initiate emergency calls	09:34
robbiethe1st	I'd aim for it to be able to make either A, emergency calls, B, calls to contacts, or C, calls to all from there.	09:35
jonwil	That code (whatever it might be) is an implementation detail of the lockscreen itself. Should the stock lockscreen make any dbus calls or other special API calls, those calls will be documented	09:35
robbiethe1st	depending on settingsd	09:35
jonwil	Anything else not handled by the lockscreen may be handled by mce	09:36
jonwil	such as alarm related code	09:36
jonwil	btw, we are talking about the swipe/to/unlock screen here, not the enter-a-code device lock	09:36
jonwil	which is different code altogether	09:36
Robot101	oh ok - right	09:37
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jonwil	If MohammadAG or anyone else wants me to reverse engineer the enter-a-code lock logic, I will do that later	09:37
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:15
divan	morning	10:15
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[DarkGUNMAN]	morning	10:20
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jonwil	I think I am finally beginning to understand the mysteries of the universe. Or at least of the Maemo tklock ui code :)	10:44
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RST38h	jonwil: Be careful: if you find out too much and start talking about it, the agents of the world government will come in a white van and take you away to the mental institution!	10:58
jonwil	lol	10:58
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macmaN	debugging code written on the wall of institution with an imaginary pencil is probably difficult	11:17
macmaN	is it me or does n950 battery go down really fast just idling overnight	11:17
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X-Fade	macmaN: I never check overnight as I charge at night.	11:24
X-Fade	But during the day I have plenty left.	11:24
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macmaN	right, just seems a bit uncomfortable with getting n900 finally last like 3 full days or so	11:25
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Venemo	macmaN, always keep the N900 on charger while you sleep, and in offline mode. then at the morning when you wake up, plug the charger out and in again	11:28
Venemo	by the time you depart, it will be full	11:28
macmaN	n950 you mean or...?	11:28
macmaN	i dont have an issue with n900 :>	11:29
Venemo	macmaN, I thought we're talking N900	11:29
Venemo	aaah	11:29
macmaN	no, just comparing	11:29
Venemo	you meant your N950... ehh.	11:29
* Venemo is envious :)		11:29
kerio	<macmaN> ooh look at me i'm so cool i can complain about a very exclusive phone for developers	11:29
kerio	i hate you so much right now	11:29
macmaN	right this hate is just spreading too, im getting attacked on tmo even :>	11:29
kerio	also try to install powertop or something like that	11:30
macmaN	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1044883	11:30
kerio	perhaps you have something draining your battery	11:30
macmaN	it does have some energy profiler app built in	11:30
Venemo	maybe it's just a bug	11:32
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Venemo	macmaN, btw, congrats for your N950	11:36
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[DarkGUNMAN]	aye.. lucky bugger	11:36
Termana	kerio, your not a little... butthurt are you?	11:37
kerio	noooo	11:37
kerio	why would you think so	11:37
Termana	<kerio> <macmaN> ooh look at me i'm so cool i can complain about a very exclusive phone for developers	11:37
kerio	i was sarcastic	11:37
kerio	i'm absolutely butthurt	11:38
Termana	lol	11:38
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macmaN	this thing really is tha shiznit	11:38
macmaN	so no wonder	11:38
macmaN	honestly, swipe just redefined how these stupid devices are supposed to be used	11:38
kerio	what does it do?	11:38
macmaN	all of them, android ios etc blah	11:39
MrRagga	hi, i am looking for a similar frontend to promote packages like http://maemo.org/packages/ ? is it a plugin within Midgard CMS or a self written frontend?	11:39
Termana	kerio, it makes phone calls?	11:39
Termana	:p	11:39
kerio	i was talking about swype	11:39
Termana	oh. It's not swype, it's swipe	11:40
kerio	oh ok	11:40
X-Fade	MrRagga: It is a midcom component.	11:40
macmaN	im just talking about the gesture in general, who cares what the trademark is called	11:40
kerio	not the keyboard then	11:40
macmaN	just the way how it matches with human cognition	11:40
MrRagga	X-Fade: so a component within the cms system? if i install midgard i can test it myself?	11:41
X-Fade	MrRagga: Yes.	11:41
macmaN	with re app and context switching. definitely shows that nokia does have a few bright sports either in house or the people in companies they work with.	11:41
kerio	*had	11:41
MrRagga	X-Fade: thanks	11:41
macmaN	i havent found out yet who has originally come up with the whole concept	11:41
X-Fade	macmaN: It is very geared towards maemo of course.	11:41
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Termana	well well well what do we have here?	11:47
Termana	Someone using a nickname they have never used before. But they are using a certain country provider and real name that tells everyone who they are! :p	11:48
Termana	Or one big coincidence	11:49
kerio	come on, there could be more than one joerg in germany	11:50
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hiemanshu	I know 3 joergs in germany :P	11:55
Venemo_N900	heh	11:56
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kerio	hiemanshu: do they use t-dialin?	12:08
hiemanshu	kerio: hah, never checked :P	12:09
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MrRagga	X-Fade: what is the name of the component?	12:23
X-Fade	MrRagga: org_maemo_packages	12:23
MrRagga	X-Fade: thanks	12:24
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X-Fade	MrRagga: Very obvious name, isn't it? :)	12:24
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MrRagga	X-Fade: indeed ;)	12:27
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lardman	morning	12:28
alterego	Aloiha	12:28
alterego	-i	12:28
* lardman checks emails....		12:28
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* lardman experiences disappointment		12:28
alterego	Heh	12:29
alterego	Is it me or are the meego forums going epically slow?	12:29
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robbiethe1st	So has anyone gotten an email from the meego devkit device program?	12:30
robbiethe1st	well, the n950 one anyway	12:30
alterego	No	12:31
alterego	I'm sure we'd know as soon as someone has ;)	12:31
robbiethe1st	:p, so that means the few who do have them got them through other methods	12:31
alterego	Not entirely, but yes.	12:32
robbiethe1st	that's actually decent news.	12:32
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macmaN	mkay, battery drain is actually mentioned in w22 image release notes	12:35
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MohammadAG	any launchpad confirmations yet? :P	12:55
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alterego	Nope	12:58
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: its only tuesday :P	13:13
lardman	hmm, I hope someone's told the Launchpad guys that we expect the emails on Wed in that case ;)	13:14
MohammadAG	I'm expecting the device to spend 4 days in customs	13:16
obcecado	MohammadAG: thanks for the sociality client, seems to work pretty well :-]	13:18
* lardman wonders what laptops play nicely with Linux, or rather which don't		13:19
jonwil	MohammadAG, I posted a data dump to the mailing list with all the info that is related to the tklock systemui plugin	13:19
MohammadAG	you're welcome obcecado	13:19
MohammadAG	I should update it though	13:19
jonwil	In theory it should be enough information to replace it completly	13:19
MohammadAG	jonwil, cool :)	13:20
jonwil	I hope it helps you out	13:21
jonwil	in your lockscreen work	13:21
jonwil	and if you have any questions or need me to do any further reverse engineering, let me know	13:21
jonwil	let me know if you need me to figure out what the devlock stuff does also	13:21
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alterego	MohammadAG: looks like we can blow harmattan home right open with qml ..	13:22
alterego	Can't wait to get one to do some mods.	13:23
MohammadAG	alterego, err what?	13:23
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alterego	Harmattan home looks to be qml based, so should hopefully be quite easy to create extra home views (like widgets)	13:24
jonwil	Same goes for anyone else, anything you want me to reverse engineer or dig into, let me know and I will see what I can do :P	13:24
Hurrian	hmm, is the harmattan ui open source, like fremantle-hildon-desktop?	13:24
alterego	Hurrian: not really no, some parts of it are but the main UX code is not.	13:24
Hurrian	mmm	13:25
lardman	jonwil: thanks for the email	13:25
Hurrian	so, if the n900 bombs out on the thumb-2 instructions for harmattan, there's no way we're getting a full port	13:25
jonwil	I hope that data dump is actually understandable to anyone but me...	13:25
lardman	yes	13:26
jonwil	Sounds like Harmattan goes BACKWARDS as far as whats open and not open goes :(	13:26
Hurrian	on a side note, damn apt-worker.real	13:26
Hurrian	i mean, 78% CPU	13:26
lardman	lol, yes indeed	13:26
Hurrian	you have got to be kidding me	13:26
Hurrian	has nokia heard of apt-get?	13:26
robbiethe1st	Can't you just disablwe it?	13:27
Hurrian	uhh, lets see here, auto-update interval	13:27
Hurrian	next update : after universe's chill death	13:28
robbiethe1st	Oh, yea. I did that on my N900. set it to 1 year	13:28
robbiethe1st	it'll never do it, because you'll manually update more than that	13:28
Hurrian	which reminds me, i'll need to redo my ext4 /home	13:29
ruskie	hmm I need to disable that auto update crap	13:29
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Hurrian	i'll probably wait for power48 with the anti-ext4-corruption patch	13:29
ruskie	what corruption patch?	13:29
Hurrian	ask tigerite	13:30
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MohammadAG	jonwil, just read the email, nice :)	13:31
MohammadAG	are you sure "silent" isn't about HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB?	13:32
MohammadAG	I ran xprop on the default lockscreen and that atom was set	13:32
MohammadAG	it blocks banners/notifications etc	13:32
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MohammadAG	also, TKLOCK_ENABLE_VISUAL doesn't send the signal unlocked, just the one for display = on	13:33
jonwil	ok, well something is sending unlocked	13:33
jonwil	must be the other TKLOCK_blah	13:33
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Hurrian	MohammadAG , working on the lockscreen?	13:33
jonwil	whatever that is	13:33
MohammadAG	in that mode, tactile feedback isn't on	13:33
MohammadAG	I already made a lockscreen, but it overlays the old one	13:34
jonwil	will this lockscreen be open source?	13:34
MohammadAG	jonwil, that's what HILDON_STACKING_LAYER IS FOR	13:34
MohammadAG	http://gitorious.org/maemo5-foss-lockscreen iirc	13:35
MohammadAG	a higher stacking layer means hildon will show it on top	13:35
MohammadAG	the call dialog is layer 9 or 10, slide to answer is that +1 so it overlays it	13:35
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*** DocScrutinizer2 is now known as DocScrutinizer		13:36
MohammadAG	HILDON_WM_ACTION_NO_TRANSITIONS disables transitions, the lockscreen is a dialog shown fullscreen and not a window, so if transitions are enabled it slides downwards (which is a nice effect, but Nokia decided to take it out in PR1.1)	13:37
Hurrian	MAG, i like the transition ;)	13:38
jonwil	regarding silent, I can confirm that the code I have for both Diablo and MeeGo says "@param silent TRUE to disable infoprints, FALSE to enable infoprints"	13:38
jonwil	As for HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB, the only places I see that reference it are hildon-desktop.launch, libhildon-1.so, tscalibrate and volume_status_menu_item.so	13:39
MohammadAG	Hurrian, me too, that's why I kept it ;)	13:39
jonwil	all except the last one are open source IIRC	13:39
MohammadAG	jonwil, that atom hides all notifications except battery low	13:39
MohammadAG	volume_status_menu_item.so uses it so the volume bar doesn't show while you're using the volume keys with the status menu open	13:40
jonwil	ok, so anything else you need me to reverse engineer at this point?	13:40
jonwil	or to investigate?	13:40
Venemo_N900	heya	13:40
MohammadAG	that's kinda retarded, since that's why the status menu closes before an IM arrives, so the flag is no longer valid	13:40
Venemo_N900	anyone received an email from launchpad yet?	13:41
DocScrutinizer	Termana: what's up?	13:41
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, all of us, except you	13:41
MohammadAG	:P	13:41
MohammadAG	jonwil, I think that's about enough info	13:41
MohammadAG	thanks	13:42
jonwil	ok, great	13:42
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jonwil	So now you can make a complete replacement for libsystemuiplugin_tklock.so	13:42
jonwil	which is how it should be done (rather than overlaying the default lockscreen)	13:43
jonwil	Do you need me to figure out the devlock (device lock) stuff?	13:43
MohammadAG	no need, but my C skills are meh at best	13:43
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, srsly?	13:43
DocScrutinizer	kerio: hiemanshu: eh? joerg?	13:44
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, of course... not	13:44
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, ?	13:44
Venemo_N900	ah, ok.	13:44
Venemo_N900	I understand :P	13:44
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, I was messing around, no one got anything	13:44
MohammadAG	besides Jaffa	13:44
jonwil	ok, so I wont bother reverse engineering the device lock bits then	13:45
jonwil	Ok, so if I am going to reverse engineer some mce plugins, which plugin(s) should I focus on?	13:45
jonwil	Which ones would be usefull to have as open source?	13:45
MohammadAG	there are some open source ones afaik	13:46
MohammadAG	in MeeGo's repo	13:46
lardman	jonwil: did you find that accidentally released code?	13:46
jonwil	yep, I found the Diablo MCE code	13:46
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, I'm starting to get worried	13:46
lardman	cool	13:46
jonwil	didnt help all that much	13:46
lardman	:)	13:47
jonwil	as the N900 and N8x0 are so diffrerent	13:47
Venemo_N900	yea	13:47
jonwil	yeah the MeeGo mce codebase has some meego mce plugins	13:48
jonwil	But what I am trying to find out is which maemo MCE plugins I should clone (using the meego MCE plugin code as a guide and reference and then matching that code back to the Fremantle binaries)	13:49
jonwil	we have libaccellerometer.so, libalarm.so, libaudiorouting.so, libbattery.so, libcallstate.so, libcamera.so, libdisplay.so, libfilter-brightness-als.so, libfilter-brightness-simple.so, libhomekey.so, libinactivity.so, libkeypad.so, libled.so and libvibrator.so	13:50
jonwil	which of those sound like they would be worth being able to recompile and replace on Fremantle?	13:50
* SpeedEvil thinks he'd need to do way more research.		13:52
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*** DocScrutinizer is now known as DocScrutinizer2		13:58
DocScrutinizer2	~lart Termana	13:58
* infobot whacks Termana with a giant beaver's tail		13:58
*** DocScrutinizer2 is now known as DocScrutinizer		13:58
lardman	Jaffa: does the N950 support channel bonding in 802.11n wireless connections?	13:58
MohammadAG	jonne, I'd guess libdisplay	13:58
MohammadAG	libcallstate does some annoying things too	13:58
MohammadAG	I mean, I'd rather have touch disabled than the whole display off when a call is active	13:59
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, when clicking the power button on the N950, do you get a menu or does it simply lock the device?	14:03
macmaN	locks	14:03
macmaN	its actually quite convenient	14:03
jonwil	IIRC someone said they wanted to do things for brightness, maybe I should do that too	14:03
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alterego	Does the N950 have dedicated camera button?	14:04
jonwil	vibrator too	14:04
macmaN	no it doesnt	14:04
macmaN	app launched	14:04
alterego	lame	14:04
jonwil	I might just go ahead and do all of them where possible :)	14:04
macmaN	for me it seems like having the camera app in task switcher makes me feel the best	14:04
macmaN	on standby	14:04
alterego	harmattan: quickest launch to picture, but you have to find the icon first.	14:04
macmaN	lol true	14:04
alterego	yeah	14:04
alterego	was thinking that	14:05
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macmaN	but since you currently cant close apps at all with downswipe	14:05
macmaN	...	14:05
alterego	I want a recent "media" view in home	14:05
macmaN	i guess thats why i dont want to be bothered with relaunching all the time	14:05
alterego	Think I might mod one	14:05
alterego	camerad is always running anyway :)	14:06
alterego	It's prestarted	14:06
macmaN	yeah. just a mental thing.	14:06
alterego	cameraui even	14:06
MohammadAG	macmaN, can you comfortably press two hardware buttons at the same time?	14:06
MohammadAG	like power + volume	14:07
macmaN	wdym?	14:07
macmaN	with one hand or how or what?	14:07
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MohammadAG	having a shortcut to the camera is useful	14:07
DocScrutinizer	~seen Termana	14:09
infobot	termana is currently on #htc-linux (11h 36m 55s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 2h 19m 48s, last said: 'Or one big coincidence'.	14:09
alterego	You know what else I'd like to see modded? Using bluetooth or headset remote to take a picture.	14:09
alterego	That would make having a tripod awesome ..	14:09
DocScrutinizer	~seen hiemanshu	14:10
infobot	hiemanshu is currently on #kde (9d 8h 8m 22s). Has said a total of 865 messages. Is idling for 57m 32s, last said: 'MohammadAG: its only tuesday :P'.	14:10
DocScrutinizer	~seen DocScrutinizer51	14:11
infobot	docscrutinizer51 is currently on #openmoko (5d 13h 14m 4s) #openmoko-cdevel (5d 13h 14m 4s). Has said a total of 9 messages. Is idling for 1d 5h 7m 4s, last said: 'moin auch'.	14:11
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DocScrutinizer	~+chaninfo	14:11
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MohammadAG	alterego, you already have a tripod for the N9?	14:11
DocScrutinizer	HAH	14:11
robbiethe1st	crashed it!	14:12
RST38h	Not a tripod. A pedestal!	14:12
alterego	No	14:12
alterego	But I'd make one if I did :)	14:12
nicofs	Can someone help me get my contacts from phone to conversations to send sms...?	14:12
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infobot	DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!	14:12
macmaN	i ordered this http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-plastic-tripod-for-cell-phone-34564 for the n900	14:13
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macmaN	MohammadAG: yeah those buttons are quite close, i can see a shortcut thing workingthere	14:13
macmaN	you can press them with one hand too	14:13
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot		14:13
DocScrutinizer	~seen DocScrutinizer51	14:14
infobot	docscrutinizer51 is currently on #maemo #openmoko-cdevel #openmoko, last said: 'moin auch'.	14:14
alterego	Nice N9 review: http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/07/05/two-weeks-with-the-nokia-n9/?sf1748383=1	14:14
DocScrutinizer	~seen Termana	14:14
infobot	termana is currently on #htc-linux #maemo, last said: 'Or one big coincidence'.	14:14
DocScrutinizer	better	14:14
MohammadAG	what about <DocScrutinizer> ~+chaninfo :P	14:15
DocScrutinizer	~+chaninfo	14:15
infobot	I'm on 26 channels: #debian/1084, #maemo/367, #kde/328, #openmoko/104, #htc-linux/82, #openmoko-cdevel/77, #slug/44, #/26, #debianppc/20, #debian.gr/17, ##guleague/14, #elive/10, #debian-bots/9, ##essy/9, #debian-france/8, #openslug/6, #linuxpakistan/4, #wowroster/4, #lugwv/3, ##pxe/3, ##bz-inc/3, ##bspress/2, ##ols/2, ##icf/2, #palmchat/1	14:15
infobot	i've cached 2229 users, 1981 unique users, distributed over 26 channels.	14:15
DocScrutinizer	joining in a throttled way	14:16
DocScrutinizer	~+chaninfo	14:16
infobot	I'm on 29 channels: #debian/1088, #maemo/367, #kde/328, #openmoko/104, #htc-linux/82, #openmoko-cdevel/77, #slug/44, #/26, #debianppc/20, #debian.gr/17, ##guleague/14, ##ducleague/11, #elive/10, #debian-bots/9, ##essy/9, #debian-france/8, #openslug/6, #linuxpakistan/4, #wowroster/4, #lugwv/3, ##pxe/3, ##bz-inc/3, #arm-netbook/2, ##bspress/2, ##t42/2, ##ols/2, ##icf/2, #palmchat/1	14:16
infobot	i've cached 2248 users, 1988 unique users, distributed over 29 channels.	14:16
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nicofs	I just want to send an sms with my n900 but somehow i don't have any contacts to send it to... what can i do about that?	14:17
Corsac	“a solid email client” aha	14:17
Corsac	not exactly the pov of Jaffa	14:17
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I still wonder what's the fuss about >>ast said: 'Or one big coincidence'.<<	14:21
DocScrutinizer	somebody stole my nick or what?	14:21
DocScrutinizer	[2011-07-05 10:51:49] [CTCP] Versionsanfrage von Termana empfangen.	14:21
nicofs	Please guys... someone must have at some point used his device to send an sms...	14:24
psycho_oreos	using contacts of course	14:25
nicofs	if i choose someone from contacts i can either skype or phone... i want sms...	14:25
nicofs	if i choose conversations -> new sms i don't have any contacts...	14:26
Shapeshifter	nicofs: sounds broken	14:26
psycho_oreos	have you actually tried entering the number for the person you want to sms to?	14:26
psycho_oreos	I mean I don't understand what your problem is to be frank	14:27
nicofs	psycho_oreos, if i type in a number the sms gets there - but that's not a solution...	14:27
nicofs	i can't memorize every number from my contact list...	14:27
MohammadAG	nicofs, can you check if you have SMS disabled for phones?	14:27
psycho_oreos	nicofs, so you used to have people in your contacts but now they're all gone?	14:27
MohammadAG	it might be picking up all numbers as phones for some reason	14:27
MohammadAG	psycho_oreos, he has his contacts set up right, but without an SMS button	14:27
nicofs	psycho_oreos, i have a full contact list - but the sms app can't access it, i guess	14:28
lardman	nicofs: see MohammadAG's comment	14:28
MohammadAG	Contacts -> SEttings -> Display SMS only for Mobile numbers	14:28
nicofs	MohammadAG, how can i do that?	14:28
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG, oh	14:28
lardman	or just set the contacts' phone numbers to the correct type	14:29
nicofs	MohammadAG, that did the trick... thanks a lot	14:29
Shapeshifter	I'm bored. What fun thing can I do with the n900?	14:29
Shapeshifter	I've got like an hour to waste	14:29
MohammadAG	n900fly	14:30
psycho_oreos	lol	14:30
Shapeshifter	I'd rather not	14:30
psycho_oreos	I personally wouldn't too :)	14:30
lardman	you could do it programmatically	14:30
lardman	in fact it's a shame the contacts app doesn't do it for you by recognising the numbers	14:31
psycho_oreos	price of smashed phone= ~$600, price of replacing broken (and now longer easily obtained N900)= priceless :)	14:31
DocScrutinizer	nicofs: your SMS service plugin for contacts is messed up or gone (wild handwaving, had same for VoIP)	14:31
psycho_oreos	s/now/now\ no/	14:31
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: price of smashed phone= ~$600, price of replacing broken (and now\ no longer easily obtained N900)= priceless :)	14:31
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DocScrutinizer	nicofs: or what MohammadAG said	14:32
psycho_oreos	rolls eyes my quote was full of fails lol, ah well	14:32
psycho_oreos	Shapeshifter, improve scripts? ;)	14:32
DocScrutinizer	lardman: ++	14:33
Shapeshifter	I could fix that bug in alarmed	14:34
Shapeshifter	mh, but the latest source in on my laptop.	14:34
DocScrutinizer	lardman: indeed a PITA	14:34
* Shapeshifter turns on computers at home		14:34
* lardman ponders the closedness of some components		14:34
lardman	and the fact it means we can't add useful features	14:34
RST38h	just write them from scratch	14:34
DocScrutinizer	lardman: ++	14:35
lardman	RST38h: yeah, we didn't know we'd need to when the N900 came out though	14:35
lardman	but I guess we should just crack on and do so for the N950/N9 in the expectation that things probably won't get fixed	14:35
Shapeshifter	me ponders that the open source components are too complicated for him to understand and adapt. like modest, hildon-desktop etc...	14:35
DocScrutinizer	some of them for sure	14:36
Jaffa	lardman: No idea. Not got 802.11n here	14:36
Jaffa	lardman: Not seen it in the settings	14:36
Shapeshifter	I can write a small program in C, but all that stuff is so big and complicated :\|	14:36
DocScrutinizer	telepathy ;-O	14:36
SpeedEvil	It'd be so nice if we could go back to the start with n900	14:36
SpeedEvil	And do it 'right'.	14:36
lardman	Jaffa: np, was just curious as I need to buy a new wireless router	14:36
MohammadAG	wl1271 is 802.11n afaik	14:37
SpeedEvil	With the knowledge that it's possible to get past some of the closed stuff.	14:37
RST38h	lardman: but NOW we know better, don't we? :)	14:37
SpeedEvil	And much of the closed stuff was in fact open	14:37
ruskie	mmm would be nice to be able to use e17/illume on the n900 instead of hildon...	14:37
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: and poooooorly documented	14:37
lardman	RST38h: yes I'd say so	14:37
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jonwil	far too much of the important bits on the N900 and yes the N9 and N950 is closed source	14:37
lardman	RST38h: and if we're wrong, then we can be pleasantlt surprised	14:37
psycho_oreos	but there's things that one wished Nokia would have done more of a proper job in adding useful functions in, like alarm without the ability to set workdays is annoying when one has multiple/sequential alarms :)	14:37
Shapeshifter	psycho_oreos: I wrote a program for that	14:38
RST38h	lardman: always the case with pessimists! =)	14:38
lardman	psycho_oreos: don't get me started on the calendar	14:38
psycho_oreos	Shapeshifter, alarmed? :)	14:38
Shapeshifter	psycho_oreos: yeah. you can set which workdays	14:38
psycho_oreos	lardman, there's plenty of other little nuisances one can find when using N900 on a daily basis :)	14:39
Shapeshifter	modest is the worst thing about the n900	14:39
lardman	HAM	14:39
Shapeshifter	apt-get works...	14:39
ruskie	HAM	14:39
DocScrutinizer	meh, simply do email on a real PC :-P	14:39
Shapeshifter	email is essential in communication	14:40
Shapeshifter	more important that phoning, for me	14:40
psycho_oreos	Shapeshifter, hmm, should make it a todo thing about importing user set alarms through osso-alarm or osso-clock whatever it was	14:40
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DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: won't fly	14:40
psycho_oreos	lol email functionality was provided but was not done properly :) its kinda like buying a car that would could actually go but you had to pedal by feet (like flintstones) ;)	14:41
* ruskie checked stast that the cellco offers for the past few months on his cell usage... calls: 0, 1, 0, 4, 0 sms: 1, 2, 0, 0, 1 mms: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 data(in mb): 200, 300, 100, 200, 400		14:41
ruskie	calls in minutes that is	14:41
DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: you'd have to integrate alarmed into all those usually closed bits	14:41
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, I　know I know, as with lots of other things sigh I'll just have to do them by hand :/	14:41
psycho_oreos	the individual entries that I had with osso-clock	14:42
Shapeshifter	ruskie: I barely do 5 calls a month	14:42
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ruskie	Shapeshifter, I barely do 1	14:42
DocScrutinizer	yeah, like selecting "mobile" instead of "phone" for 70% of new contacts	14:42
MohammadAG	RST38h, lardman Fremantle seems more open than Harmattan	14:42
ruskie	Shapeshifter, those were in minutes... so basically last 5 months... 5 minutes of calls	14:42
psycho_oreos	:o	14:42
Shapeshifter	mhm	14:42
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: looks like my stats	14:43
cpscotti	DocScrutinizer, ruskie : me too!	14:43
ruskie	I'd like to get data closer to my limit of 2GB	14:43
Shapeshifter	damn, I forgot that windows overwrote my MBR	14:43
ruskie	but no matter how much I try I can't really get it	14:43
Shapeshifter	now my desktop at home booted windows	14:43
Shapeshifter	didn't fix it yet	14:43
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DocScrutinizer	ruskie: emule ;-P	14:43
ruskie	haven't used that in aeons	14:43
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: get spare batteries!	14:44
psycho_oreos	ruskie, mirror some maemo repositories or even nokia maemo repository ;)	14:44
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: wathing streaming video is another good way	14:44
psycho_oreos	or just crawl through mxr LOL	14:44
DocScrutinizer	30min of live broadcast ~500MB	14:44
ruskie	DocScrutinizer, ha	14:44
ruskie	I watched a whole 90 minute footbal match a year or so ago	14:45
ruskie	I think it came ~500mb	14:45
DocScrutinizer	depends on content ;-)	14:45
DocScrutinizer	fotball has really low info density	14:45
DocScrutinizer	MY fav TV otoh ... ;-P	14:46
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ruskie	I really can't force my eyes on the tiny screen sadly	14:46
Parslee	Get nearsighted	14:47
psycho_oreos	you can just use N900 as a mobile broadband modem you know, you don't have to watch things or do things with a small screen :)	14:47
DocScrutinizer	I regularly watch TV via IPTV and TV linked to AV	14:47
ruskie	psycho_oreos, but what would I use it with	14:47
ruskie	I don't have a laptop	14:47
psycho_oreos	ruskie, not even a computer?　:)	14:48
ruskie	I hardly consider the eeepc something worth using a lot...	14:48
psycho_oreos	lol	14:48
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: >/dev/null ;-P	14:48
ruskie	and I have a usb 3g dongle that I can use	14:48
psycho_oreos	but you have to admit that eeepc has a much bigger screen than N900 :)	14:48
ruskie	eeepc 701	14:48
psycho_oreos	lol and null device becomes full ;)	14:48
ruskie	so 7" screen	14:49
psycho_oreos	yeah, 10" vs what 3 or so inches? :)	14:49
ruskie	not that much bigger	14:49
ruskie	701 is 7"	14:49
psycho_oreos	its still double ;D	14:49
ruskie	I'm planing on getting a touchbook or an eee pad transformer or the lenove thinkpad tablet thingy...	14:49
DocScrutinizer	a friend of mine used to start 3 or 4 concurrent lifestreams when he left home. Rationale: it's flatrate so I want to USE it! OMG	14:50
ruskie	erm lenovo even	14:50
psycho_oreos	what about a big TV? you can probably do what DocScrutinizer did, hook it up to TV and watch IPTV, youtube or whatever through there :D	14:50
ruskie	already have a media box hooked to the tv at home	14:50
* cpscotti finds out that blinkbox.com works on his n900; "How to use all you data problem" solved.		14:50
ruskie	and I'd really NOT want to use 3g to stream anything bigger than a matchbox	14:50
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ruskie	cpscotti, "not available in your country"	14:51
psycho_oreos	just trying to find ways for you to eat up more of that 2G quota :p. I'm somewhat envious (I'm stuck here with 300MB)	14:51
ruskie	so... no that doesn't work	14:51
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ruskie	psycho_oreos, I pay what... 12 eur for that quota	14:51
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ruskie	I can up it to 20gb for 18 eur	14:51
ruskie	or down to I think 100mb for 8 eur	14:52
ruskie	I don't make package contracts	14:52
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ruskie	basic service I pay 5 eur	14:52
ruskie	for no minutes, sms, mms, data	14:52
Hurrian	psycho_oreos, IPTV?	14:52
psycho_oreos	ruskie, that's relatively cheap compared to here :) in my case I don't just get 300MB (that 300MB one of the three options I was entitled to as added bonus), I get fair few hours worth of calls, and few SMS for AUD$79/month	14:53
Hurrian	screw that, how about a script that fetches RSS of new shows and auto-subscribes and torrents them?	14:53
psycho_oreos	Hurrian, yeah streaming video TV :)	14:53
Hurrian	i always wanted to automate my RSS downloads	14:53
psycho_oreos	that was somewhat suggested :)	14:53
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psycho_oreos	heh write a scraper ;)	14:54
Hurrian	i dont want to look for shows, i want to watch shows, and have the scheduled air times show on some home screen	14:54
ruskie	I'm lucky that I'm still keeping my own package... I don't upgrade the package at all...	14:54
Hurrian	and in my country, digital TV and cable TV are shite	14:54
ruskie	the one I started with	14:54
psycho_oreos	haha Hurrian that more or less makes two of us	14:55
Hurrian	ever since i replaced all my tubes with LCD TVs, i need HD content	14:55
Hurrian	...the Internet gives me my HD content	14:55
ruskie	atm the cheapest I could get would be 7€/month if I started new and I get 51 minutes in that included	14:55
Hurrian	but damn, i cant be assed to look for my own shows	14:55
Hurrian	hmm, time to make a script myself then	14:56
ruskie	there are tools for that already Hurrian	14:56
Hurrian	every few hours = timeslot	14:56
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ruskie	automating rss torrent ep downloads	14:56
Hurrian	at certain times of day, it dl's and shows... shows/movies of $TIMESLOT genre	14:56
Hurrian	hmm, should probably add auto-compensation for download times	14:56
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Hurrian	ruskie, i already have RSS for torrent downloads of episodes	14:58
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Hurrian	i meant, the script automatically looks for new shows and downloads them	14:58
* ruskie is trying to figure out if people really don't calculate that N months*price is higher than buying device operator free...		14:58
Hurrian	ruskie: people love $1/device + $70/month "unlimited" data	15:00
ruskie	yeah I've noticed	15:00
Hurrian	also, in the USA, people love CDMA	15:00
lardman	over here it's about the same	15:00
Hurrian	why the fuck they do, i don't know	15:00
psycho_oreos	more providers in stateside uses CDMA　from what I've read and heard	15:00
Hurrian	i mean, if you bring your CDMA superdroid over to Europe, it turns into an iPod Touch ;)	15:00
lardman	or indeed sometimes margnially cheaper as you get more data/minutes/etc if you pay more per month, even if that does subsidise the device cost	15:00
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alterego	I bet quims emails are in launchpad spam	15:02
alterego	I'm still hopeful tomorrow is the day :)	15:02
fosstux	Hi! I'm thinking about moving to gpe-contacts and gpe-calendar.	15:02
fosstux	How can I easily import my contacts and calendars into the gpe apps?	15:03
ruskie	the media made a point in calculating how much an iphone 4 costs on contract vs cellco free...	15:03
alterego	great ...	15:03
alterego	ruskie: and?	15:03
ruskie	the diff between the cheapest 16gb model was like 400eur overpayed	15:03
alterego	wow	15:03
alterego	got a link?	15:03
ruskie	http://www.delo.si/druzba/infoteh/koliko-stane-iphone.html <-- you'll need to translate it ;)	15:04
ruskie	the comparison on how much it costs you from operators is in the pdf linked to at the bottom of the article	15:04
alterego	heh, thanks	15:04
ruskie	the free price of it is somewhere in the beginging(630 eur)	15:04
alterego	Yeah, sounds free to me ..	15:05
ruskie	I mean taking out a loan for 630 eur you would overpay like 20-50 eur somewhere...	15:05
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* DocScrutinizer has PAYG since 1999		15:06
DocScrutinizer	never felt like changing that	15:06
alterego	same sim? :P	15:06
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:06
DocScrutinizer	:-D	15:06
alterego	Heh	15:07
DocScrutinizer	not like it's my only sim - bought me like 20 or 30 for test purposes	15:07
alterego	Heh	15:08
alterego	I've got about 10	15:08
DocScrutinizer	you know, senior EE of a phone builder company	15:08
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DocScrutinizer	ex*	15:09
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ruskie	I started with prepay	15:09
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ruskie	but frankly... the prices for calls and data simply were to high	15:09
DocScrutinizer	they were high in the beginning	15:10
DocScrutinizer	now are better than contract most usually	15:10
ruskie	though I did actually change to postpay like in 2008 or so	15:10
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Hurrian	ah wow	15:11
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DocScrutinizer	and as the subsidized bricks they offer for their contracts never are what I'm looking for, there's definitely no use in contracts for me	15:11
Hurrian	DocScrutinizer: same	15:11
nid0	im on a contract, dunno about elsewhere in the world but contract + subsidized phone prices in the uk tend to work out fairly decent	15:11
Hurrian	they give me some useless nokia brick every year	15:11
Hurrian	lately, they gave me a C3-01	15:12
Hurrian	S40 --- the pain	15:12
ruskie	s40... imho the best mobile os around	15:12
ruskie	for phones	15:12
Hurrian	...out of memory	15:12
Hurrian	what the hell?	15:12
Hurrian	is nokia still to cheap to buy more RAM?	15:13
ruskie	it's not meant to be used as a feature/smart phone	15:13
ruskie	it's meant to be used as... a phone	15:13
Hurrian	anyways, the great tactile on it is... great	15:13
Hurrian	you can feel the touchscreen button under your finger	15:13
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Hurrian	although i think it has a lot to do with the metal back cover	15:13
DocScrutinizer	I'm fine with ~10EUR / month right now: pay 30 get 30 on top for bonus minutes/sms. The basic 30 go for 500mb data @ 10/month, the bonus goes higher and higher as my calls are like 5min/month	15:13
Parslee	what	15:13
ruskie	hmm comparing postpaid and prepaid... the call prices are the same atm...	15:14
Hurrian	ruskie, not here	15:14
Parslee	Hurrian...'feel touchscreen button	15:14
ruskie	and if I go with a specific setup(no monthly cost just how much I use) I cen even get mobile net options...	15:14
Hurrian	i rarely if ever text people, so i always call	15:14
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ruskie	postpaid	15:15
Hurrian	US$20/mo with unlimited data + unlimited calls to own network	15:15
ruskie	that would certainly save me an extra 5 eur/month	15:15
Hurrian	Parslee , have you tried any of the new symbian devices?	15:15
Hurrian	tactile is excellent	15:15
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Parslee	no	15:15
ruskie	but I have some other things enabled on my service that I would then lose	15:15
Parslee	The screen dynamically createss raised buttons?	15:16
Hurrian	parslee , i meant the vibration	15:16
ruskie	actually my cellco is offering voip service now as well	15:16
Hurrian	it's just long enough to feel enough like a button	15:16
DocScrutinizer	Parslee: your idea is WiP	15:16
Parslee	ahh	15:16
nid0	personally half the reason I hold on to my current contract is because of its' unlimited data allowance that my network dont offer any more :<	15:17
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DocScrutinizer	takes another maybe 5 years	15:17
Hurrian	ruskie, they better start moving to voip and charge for data	15:17
Hurrian	with 4G mandating all-IP etc	15:17
ruskie	haha	15:18
DocScrutinizer	Hurrian: that's a simplified view on 4G	15:18
ruskie	they actually started an LTE test network	15:18
ruskie	but they don't even have ipv6	15:18
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nid0	makes sense not to	15:18
ecke	anyone in here who use weechat?	15:19
Hurrian	well, if you buy their really cheap SIM cards and putting it into your phone, you're already transmitting data to the tower, and basically have a data connection 24/7. what they should charge you for would be the peering to other networks, e.g. the internet	15:20
ruskie	their voip setup is free for softphone use and payed for normal calls or to normal numbers through softphone	15:20
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ruskie	I should probably enable it	15:21
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Hurrian	ruskie, so it's free for voip->voip?	15:21
ruskie	yup	15:21
ruskie	they do charge 2eur for the service though	15:22
ruskie	hmm	15:22
ruskie	is it worth it...	15:22
ruskie	probably not	15:22
Hurrian	ah, i noticed a lot of operators switching to IP backbones recently, probably explains all the "unlimited everything" everything	15:22
Hurrian	...within one network, of course	15:23
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ruskie	they really should make this a free service	15:26
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ruskie	not pay us an extra 2 eur to use it	15:27
ruskie	then it would actually make sense to me to get a mobile internet service and use the sip stuff on the n900 and lose the data addon on the main service	15:28
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flux	ruskie, so they should make a service free in order for you to be able to stop paying for their other service as well, that's going to fly.. ;-)	15:29
ruskie	flux, you misunderstand ;)	15:30
ruskie	I'd still be paying the 5eur/month for normal phone service	15:30
ruskie	sip should be included for free in that	15:30
ruskie	the only change would be that I would drop the data addon from that service and buy a separate data service from them	15:30
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ruskie	and yes I would get the data package from them ;)	15:32
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ruskie	mainly because I don't like for whatever reasons any of the other primary providers	15:32
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* ruskie goes to bother his landline provider that has voip service about when they are planing to unlock access for softphone use...		15:36
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DocScrutinizer	ruskie: I'd like them to pay me 2 eur to use it ;-D	16:00
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ruskie	DocScrutinizer, hehe	16:01
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DocScrutinizer	ruskie: quite usually VoIP on landline is unlocked for softphones - just they frequently don't tell you explicitly how to do it	16:03
DocScrutinizer	NGN is plain SIP usually	16:04
frals	hmm	16:04
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frals	whoever linked the reddit about getting N8 as replacement for N900, i whinged @ "@NokiaHelps": https://twitter.com/#!/NokiaHelps/status/88207986937438209	16:04
DocScrutinizer	eeeew a twitter URL	16:05
DocScrutinizer	would you mind to quote plain text here please?	16:05
frals	"Yes, you are right, N8 not the same as N900, unfortunately it seems that there was no better option in this case. ^PP"	16:05
visz	=/	16:06
Venemo_N900	hehe	16:06
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Venemo_N900	they can gimme N9 to replace my N900	16:06
rm_work	lol	16:07
DocScrutinizer	What The.... The better option is to send back the broken N900 together with the N8	16:07
Venemo_N900	xD	16:07
visz	they can pry the n900 from my cold dead hands	16:07
rm_work	i missed the context, but lol	16:07
DocScrutinizer	visz: ++	16:07
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DocScrutinizer	it is MY N900	16:08
Venemo_N900	visz ++	16:08
Venemo_N900	:P	16:08
DocScrutinizer	nobody, I repeat NOBODY may keep it and give me N8 crap for it	16:08
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psycho_oreos	funny how they still haven't picked up the fact that lots of happy maemo owners wouldn't want N8 as a replacement device	16:09
* SpeedEvil wonders if anyone will get n9 in replacement of n900		16:10
psycho_oreos	all they can do is pretend they are understanding when they aren't in actual fact	16:10
Venemo_N900	psycho_oreos, I think they don't understand that there are happy Maemo owners	16:10
DocScrutinizer	not for the next 3 months	16:10
DocScrutinizer	maybe not for next 6	16:10
psycho_oreos	Venemo_N900, rather they were blinded by Elop's awe ;)	16:10
DocScrutinizer	after N9 rollout they may do that	16:10
Venemo_N900	psycho_oreos, yea.	16:10
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer :)	16:11
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jacekowski	well, i have an idea	16:11
jacekowski	i'll send my N900 back	16:11
jacekowski	if i get N8 back	16:11
jacekowski	i'll sell it and buy N900 on ebay	16:11
jacekowski	and i'll probably even make few quid on it	16:12
DocScrutinizer	that's what I suggested to do anyway	16:12
psycho_oreos	lots of round work	16:12
Venemo_N900	jacekowski :)	16:12
DocScrutinizer	as that's probably what Nokia meant you to do, and only thing they can handle the situation	16:12
Venemo_N900	well, sure, there'd be a lot of idiots happily buying an N8	16:12
DocScrutinizer	see, Nokia can't find a N900 on ebay for you	16:13
DocScrutinizer	they can't give you back the original amount of money you paid for N900	16:13
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: looking for me?	16:13
psycho_oreos	they should get that N950 production line going for the rest of the happy maemo users or I'm sure someone will sue them	16:13
jacekowski	hmmmm	16:13
DocScrutinizer	they can't give you a new N900 as they ran out of stock	16:14
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: what's theat foo about "joerg" a few hours ago?	16:14
psycho_oreos	wouldn't they still have the parts for N900?	16:14
Parslee	pitchforks and torches for n950s	16:14
Venemo_N900	hehe	16:14
DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: no	16:14
jacekowski	hmm, N8 is only worth around £140 on ebay	16:14
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: we saw someone enter as joery with t-dialin host, so kerio thought it was you with a different nick	16:15
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: jhb (~joerg@p4FEF564B.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #maemo	16:15
kerio	i didn't, someone else did	16:15
DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: parts appeared on chinese resellers who probably bought the surplus from Nokia for cheap	16:15
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: aah, no wasn't me	16:15
hiemanshu	ah it was Termana	16:15
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, lol shocking. They manufacturered N900, had all the tools for hacking N900 physically and it seems like all those stuff went to either scrap or elsewhere	16:16
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yeah, we all are bored waiting for the nokia email, so just trollin :P	16:16
jhb	hiemanshu: there is more then one n900 user in germany :-)	16:16
psycho_oreos	meanwhile you lucky N950 guys will be guaranteed of getting N950, other avenue of possibly obtaining N950 has been closed	16:17
hiemanshu	jhb: more like more than one joerg with a t-dialin ISP :P	16:17
jhb	:-)	16:17
hiemanshu	psycho_oreos: well you cant call use lucky until we have one in our hands :P anything can change :P	16:17
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: me? t-dialin? how comes you think I got t-dialin?	16:17
Jaffa	alterego: Just had a call from Nokia Care - they've got an enormous waiting list for N900s at the moment, and can offer a swap for an E7. They wouldn't have N9s for swap until about 3-4 months after launch. Since E7s are going for more than N8s on eBay, and I have another N900 anyway, I'm going for the E7 and will liquidate the cash towards an N9 ;-)	16:17
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: <Termana> Someone using a nickname they have never used before. But they are using a certain country provider and real name that tells everyone who they are! :p	16:18
psycho_oreos	hiemanshu, I can't vouch for guaranteed but I'm sure you guys would have the upper hand of getting N950 than those who either got rejected or didn't apply for one in time :)	16:18
hiemanshu	psycho_oreos: true :D	16:19
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: I hope there's no indication whatsoever about the internet provider and link I'm using	16:19
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: nope, you are cloaked	16:20
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, if the devices don't ship before Thursday I'll probably leave and ask someone to ship it to me	16:21
psycho_oreos	hiemanshu, I got rejected for that OSS　but I didn't think the other avenue would be closed. They stated somewhere towards end of July and its already now closed, lame	16:21
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hiemanshu	psycho_oreos: they got more applications then they expected, which is a good thing actually	16:22
psycho_oreos	hiemanshu, I don't think that will change Elop's stance of scrapping meego in the long run	16:23
hiemanshu	psycho_oreos: lets murder him and appoint DocScrutinizer as the next CEO :D	16:23
SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: Oh - the other one which said end July has closed?	16:23
psycho_oreos	though one thing qgil said on that meego thread kept reminding me about how hard it was for them to shortlist people	16:23
hiemanshu	we will have OSS meego, with hostmode and nice hardware :P	16:23
psycho_oreos	hiemanshu, only one can hope	16:24
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, yup :/	16:24
SpeedEvil	Meh.	16:24
SpeedEvil	Oh well, I guess my backup plan of mugging someone comes to the fore then.	16:24
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SpeedEvil	Easier than writing a nice blurb about what I'll do is.	16:24
psycho_oreos	and that ebay scam is starting to look really shiny (as in addictive)	16:25
SpeedEvil	:)	16:25
psycho_oreos	s/addictive/tempting/	16:26
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: and that ebay scam is starting to look really shiny (as in tempting)	16:26
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, I guess you were rejected or didn't apply for one in time?	16:27
SpeedEvil	Rejected from the oss program. My initial app was basically platform, not apps. I added some apps later on, but that wasn't counted	16:28
psycho_oreos	haha makes two of us :) two known rejects	16:29
hiemanshu	SpeedEvil: 3 of them dont have owners yet, try again	16:29
SpeedEvil	hiemanshu: I've already pinged quim about my entry for reconsideration, and been knocked back, so I doubt it.	16:29
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Speedevil/Projects	16:30
hiemanshu	SpeedEvil: ah	16:30
SpeedEvil	The apps section was largely tacked on, and would admittedly mean me learning Qt/...	16:30
nid0	bleh, the tesco app should get you a device on its own :<	16:31
psycho_oreos	I　wonder if the are still short listing applicants or are they going to just reserve the 3 extras just for themselves?	16:31
SpeedEvil	nid0: I added that after the deadline	16:31
[DarkGUNMAN]	do you have any good online resources for learnng qt from the very beginning?	16:32
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: I also changed my application significantly to emphasize H-E-N is an APP, shortly after deadline	16:33
Venemo_N900	[DarkGUNMAN], do you know C++?	16:33
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[DarkGUNMAN]	nope. never touched it	16:33
[DarkGUNMAN]	only stuff i did was vb and autoit	16:33
Venemo_N900	then it will be a bit more difficult	16:34
Venemo_N900	if you ever coded anything, that may help.	16:34
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DocScrutinizer	vb is a good basis to start with python and Qt bindings	16:35
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jonwil	wow, David Weinehall responded to my tklock post (presumably the same guy who's name appears at the top of	16:35
jonwil	the top of the tklock source files in MCE	16:35
hiemanshu	so from the forum postings we know atleast they are working on our accounts	16:35
[DarkGUNMAN]	yes I do code, but nothing too heavy. still I have to start somewhere and if you have any good newbie links i'd be grateful	16:35
jonwil	and has clarified a couple of things which is nice :)	16:35
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: \o/	16:35
hiemanshu	W00T, it shows for me	16:35
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: it shows that I am a part of launchpad	16:36
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: $Nokia starts to notice your existence	16:36
hiemanshu	alterego: no email, but check your developer account settings,	16:36
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: welcome to the club	16:36
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: so what we're supposed to do now?	16:36
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: lets wait :P	16:36
SpeedEvil	jonwil: :)	16:37
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: atleast we are in the same boat now :P	16:37
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: http://i.imgur.com/7eeKm.png	16:37
DocScrutinizer	wait for WHAT? wait for DHL ringing my doorbell?	16:37
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: email saying 'We have a N950 waiting for you'	16:38
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DocScrutinizer	[citation needed]	16:38
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/	16:38
hiemanshu	does that open for you?	16:38
DocScrutinizer	yes	16:38
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hiemanshu	ok, so we are in the same boat	16:39
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: shouldn't be long now	16:39
DocScrutinizer	hah	16:39
hiemanshu	we atleast they are accepting you into launchpad	16:40
DocScrutinizer	see, it's a major PITA to scan all my environment (both IT and RL) for unusual events maybe related to N950	16:40
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* jonwil is going to send a thankyou note to David thanking him for the clarification on those points :)		16:41
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: just do what me and GeneralAntilles did, write a scirpt to check your mail for the keyword N950 and play a nice song or do some disco lights	16:41
DocScrutinizer	you'll learn quickly that your situation hasn't really improved by getting accepted to launchpad - au contraire	16:42
DocScrutinizer	I'll LMFAO if the mail reads "there's a N9-devkit pack for you" :-P	16:42
DocScrutinizer	btw I get mails with N950 in them like a dozen every minute	16:43
SpeedEvil	Or if they accidentally start shipping out a dusty pile of n810s.	16:43
DocScrutinizer	or even "RM-680 available"	16:45
hiemanshu	SpeedEvil: if they ship me a N810 with the features of the N950, I would be happy	16:45
DocScrutinizer	or "the device from DDP is available now for you"	16:45
DocScrutinizer	but honestly who says there will be any mail at all?	16:46
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: The email I got was "There is a Nokia N950 waiting for you@	16:46
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: OK! that'S a word now	16:46
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: could you pretty please answer to http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24950&postcount=396	16:46
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-30.log.html#t2011-06-30T13:47:23	16:47
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: thanks for the link	16:49
MohammadAG	<hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: email saying 'We have a N950 waiting for you'	16:50
MohammadAG	afaik that means place your damn order	16:50
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: right	16:50
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: also check http://i.imgur.com/7eeKm.png	16:50
hiemanshu	err	16:50
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml see if you have been accepted yet	16:51
MohammadAG	did you? :P	16:51
hiemanshu	its tuesday :D	16:51
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MohammadAG	My programs	16:51
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MohammadAG	No programs.	16:51
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: hah, so I am in atleast :P	16:52
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MohammadAG	they're going over applications one by one	16:52
MohammadAG	which really deserves a facepalm	16:52
jonwil	I definatly dont think I am deserving of a N950	16:53
hiemanshu	jonwil: awesome, give yours to SpeedEvil	16:53
DocScrutinizer	and after they finished that, they'll process those that already were accepted for launchpad ;-P	16:53
jonwil	I didnt even apply :P	16:53
hiemanshu	jonwil: damn	16:53
jonwil	for that reasons	16:53
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: atleast we know, some people cant script :P	16:53
jonwil	Time to get back to reverse engineering the mce plugins	16:54
jonwil	since reverse engineering the mce binary itself has been a bust	16:54
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: any pointer to tha convo with weinehall?	16:54
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, do you plan on continuing the bubbles clone?	16:55
Venemo_N900	yes, absolutely	16:55
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP is still empty :(	16:55
DocScrutinizer	yes	16:55
jonwil	what is this bubbles clone you speak of?	16:56
jonwil	http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-July/028473.html	16:56
jonwil	Thats the post on the developer mailing list by Weinehall	16:56
alterego	"no programs"	16:56
jonwil	My response was a private email that basically said "	16:56
jonwil	said "thanks for the info"	16:57
Venemo_N900	jonwil, it will be a new lockscreen for Maemo 5	16:57
jonwil	Great, then I assume my mailing list posting with the lockscreen details was of value...	16:58
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hiemanshu	alterego: muhahah, I got mine today :D :D :D	16:58
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fiferboy	alterego: Me too	16:59
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: thanks	16:59
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jonwil	Why are you interested anyway doc?	17:00
tzafrir_laptop	Is there any maemo imap client that can use imap over ssh tunnel?	17:01
DocScrutinizer	quoting FZ: your launchpad is stuffed with absolutely nothing. I mean you get nothing with your launchpad acceptance	17:01
tzafrir_laptop	Rather than a direct imap connection?	17:01
MohammadAG	jonwil, Nokia Bubbles, a lockscreen for Symbian^3	17:01
MohammadAG	which seems to have gotten slower as of the latest version	17:01
DocScrutinizer	NMB: "I get nothing - well that's what I want"	17:01
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DocScrutinizer	FZ: a true Zen saying "Nothing is what I want"	17:02
jonwil	so yeah Mohammad, you see the nice mailing list message from David Weinehall? Good to get clarification on those things	17:02
jonwil	especially from the guy who wrote the code :)	17:03
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, where did you get the email? spam?	17:03
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: no email, just checked it manually and found it	17:03
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: follow up on it - probably winehall is eager to shar more info, as he dislikes the closed-source state as much as we all do	17:04
MohammadAG	jonwil, he doesn't seem to be @nokia anymore though	17:04
MohammadAG	or he's using a personal address	17:04
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: a lot of nokians do	17:05
jonwil	I just followed up on it with an email that said "thanks for the info, it will really help" basically	17:05
lardman	hiemanshu: and it says there's a device for you there does it?	17:05
hiemanshu	lardman: nope no device, just accepted into launchpad	17:05
lardman	because you can get that page?	17:06
rm_work	one step in the long journey towards N950 :P	17:06
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hiemanshu	lardman: yes	17:06
jonwil	Doc, do you mean you are intending to email David or are you suggesting I should or what?	17:06
lardman	rm_work: yep, an exciting journey for which we know no waypoints ;)	17:06
hiemanshu	lardman: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP is empty	17:06
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, accepted? huh!	17:06
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: yes	17:06
lardman	I can also see that page, and it's empty	17:06
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, I envy you	17:06
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: hah	17:06
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: check https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/	17:06
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: if you access it, you have been accepted too	17:06
hiemanshu	it isn't sending emails though	17:06
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: I'm suggsting you reconsider RE of things you gave up due to missing info, and you go to ask winehall about those missing bits	17:07
lardman	Interesting there' a "Maemo test" in the dropdown list	17:07
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, "ou do not have the required access rights to the page you were trying to access. Please see our Developer Programs pages for further details about our offering. "	17:07
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: ah, so wait	17:07
jonwil	Except that he may not have any info on those other things. (or be able to share too much)	17:07
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: you'll have to learn to ask smart questions, as winehall can't disclose any code longer than 1 or 2 lines	17:07
hiemanshu	lardman: w00t, you are accepeted too :D	17:07
Venemo_N900	I've been waiting for a week	17:08
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lardman	right, so we're progressing gradually	17:08
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: I got mine today, you might be tomorrow	17:08
hiemanshu	lardman: yes	17:08
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Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, he can disclose all the code per line	17:08
Venemo_N900	?	17:08
jonwil	no, he can disclose fragments I suspect	17:08
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: but he may be more than happy to help on your RE enterprise, as that should result in sth he thinks is the right thing	17:08
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: there is another hour left for the day	17:08
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, we shall see then :)	17:08
Venemo_N900	I know, patience is a virtue	17:09
* w00t__ is not yet accepted :-p		17:09
hiemanshu	w00t__: hah	17:09
DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: would probably get him into trouble	17:09
Venemo_N900	w00t__, me either	17:09
jonwil	With regard to the mce binary itself, there is very little that will let me get something usable short of having the entire code for tklock.c, devlock,c, powerkey.c and the others that are very different between Diablo, Fremantle, MeeGo and Harmattan	17:09
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, do you know what I don't understand?	17:09
* lardman hopes that the Launchpad team are accepting users and adding their N950 at the same time		17:09
MohammadAG	<hiemanshu> Venemo_N900: there is another hour left for the day	17:10
MohammadAG	what timezone is that? :P	17:10
MohammadAG	lardman, afaik you have to order it	17:10
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: you can get proper specifications on what that code does, and how, from winehall -maybe	17:10
jonwil	I doubt it, its way too much code and info	17:11
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, imagine the following: an anonymous Nokia employee and a Maemo fan meet at a pub and share a few beers. Next day, someone from the Maemo community announces that he had rewritten MCE.	17:11
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: it around 4 something there right? or do I have the timezone wrong	17:11
Venemo_N900	why isn't this happening?	17:11
lardman	MohammadAG: there's nothing I can order yet	17:11
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DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: I know your idea	17:11
hiemanshu	lardman: yes, we'll have to wait for that :(	17:11
DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: too risky if it's about your job	17:12
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, a day ends at 12, or 11:59:59 :P	17:12
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: work day	17:12
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, I can recall 2 people who quit Nokia in the past month or so	17:12
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, work days end at 5?	17:12
SpeedEvil	Venemo_N900: NDAs still apply typically.	17:12
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, couldn't they had done this before they quit?	17:12
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: for most of them yes	17:13
DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: see SpeedEvil	17:13
Venemo_N900	SpeedEvil, the aforementioned Maemo community member could insist that he had written the code himself	17:13
DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: you're typically hoping for a good reputation for your next aplication for another job	17:13
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, sure, but in this situation, noone would know who did it	17:15
Venemo_N900	anyway	17:15
DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: too risky, too sneaky	17:15
Venemo_N900	I'll stop this before my next boss reads this discussion :P	17:15
DocScrutinizer	see? ;-P	17:15
FIQ	logs :D	17:16
DocScrutinizer	actually if you plan to do sth like that, then you typically include stuff to a SDK that's not really needed there	17:16
DocScrutinizer	or put more to a repo than "intended"	17:16
DocScrutinizer	e.g a 120MB tarball ;-P	17:17
FIQ	"ups"	17:17
DocScrutinizer	a pity they revoked it before anybody got to download it	17:17
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FIQ	lol, has it actually happened?	17:18
DocScrutinizer	ask javispedro	17:18
FIQ	:D	17:18
FIQ	lol	17:18
MohammadAG	yep, he found it cached on google	17:18
MohammadAG	not the actual tarball though	17:18
Stskeeps	found what?	17:19
DocScrutinizer	a 120MB tarbal in the repos	17:19
Stskeeps	heh	17:19
jonwil	http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vh48kRUtKpoJ:harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/+http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/package-manager&cd=2&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.es	17:19
Stskeeps	heh, talk about massive source..	17:19
jonwil	a 117mb tarball calaiming to be source for harmattan package-manager	17:19
Venemo_N900	hmmm	17:20
DocScrutinizer	alas we don't know the 57 guys who actually downloaded it	17:20
FIQ	nice thing to put in repos	17:20
FIQ	and, .deb?	17:21
jonwil	how do you know anyone actually downloaded it?	17:21
FIQ	wasn't MeeGo supposed to use .rm?	17:21
DocScrutinizer	so this bit got loast for community, whatever it was	17:21
FIQ	s/rm/rpm/	17:21
infobot	FIQ meant: wasn't MeeGo supposed to use .rpm?	17:21
jonwil	this is Harmattan, not MeeGo	17:21
Venemo_N900	FIQ, Harmattan is Maemo 6, not MeeGo	17:21
jonwil	Harmattan uses .deb	17:21
FIQ	Hm	17:22
FIQ	They brand it as meego :D	17:22
FIQ	nokia=confusing?	17:22
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: pleeease....	17:22
jonwil	btw there is also this	17:22
DocScrutinizer	this debate is really out	17:22
jonwil	http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wcUkzAUoYE4J:harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/package-manager_0.26.2%2B0m6.dsc+http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/package-manager_0.26.2%2B0m6.dsc&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&source=www.google.com.au	17:22
jonwil	which is a cache of the .dsc file	17:23
FIQ	DocScrutinizer: i'll not debate, as I don't know much of harmattan	17:23
jonwil	and shows that a lot of packages get built from that source	17:23
FIQ	about*	17:23
jonwil	including test packages	17:23
Venemo_N900	FIQ, this is not news. Harmattan is Maemo 6, and that's it.	17:23
jonwil	which may explain its large size	17:23
Venemo_N900	it's API compatible with MeeGo, so they did put a MeeGo sticker on it.	17:23
FIQ	ok	17:23
Stskeeps	didnt http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/o/osso-wlan/ use to be closed source?	17:24
Stskeeps	or do i remember wrong	17:24
MohammadAG	nope, open	17:25
Stskeeps	ok	17:25
MohammadAG	mafw used to be open :P	17:25
jonwil	mafw is?	17:25
MohammadAG	mafw's open on Fremantle	17:25
MohammadAG	closed in Harmattan	17:25
Stskeeps	odd	17:25
Venemo_N900	lool	17:26
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alterego	qmafw is in harmattan, same dbus apis though.	17:26
DocScrutinizer	I planned to "mirror" (aka wget) the whole friggin repo twice a day, but I'm short of storage on my box	17:26
MohammadAG	alterego, the old API should work too	17:26
MohammadAG	my mediaplayer should build and run on it	17:26
DocScrutinizer	I know there are a few guys on this globe who did	17:26
FIQ	how big is it?	17:26
alterego	Sure, and my im status updater :)	17:27
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jonwil	There are a few things in Harmattan that are open that were closed in Fremantle	17:27
MohammadAG	get rid of pyside, please :P	17:27
jonwil	libbmeipc-dev is available in Harmattan but not Fremantle	17:27
jonwil	same with libsysinfo-dev	17:27
MohammadAG	and vice versa	17:27
Stskeeps	jonwil: its open? hmm	17:28
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Stskeeps	where?	17:28
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jonwil	well libbmeipc-dev is available in the Harmattan SDK repo	17:28
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jonwil	but I dont think its actually open, just "usable" in the way that some other headers are	17:29
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jonwil	at least the .h files contain no license, only a nokia (c)	17:30
Stskeeps	what filenames?	17:31
jonwil	usr/include/bme/*	17:31
jonwil	in a SDK install	17:31
jonwil	package is libbmeipc-dev	17:31
jonwil	only available from the nokia-binaries SDK repo	17:31
Stskeeps	i dont have harmattan sdk on my computer nor do i want it :P got a pastebin of the filenames?	17:32
X-Fade	jonwil: The fact that it is in nokia-binaries means that they are closed :)	17:32
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jonwil	same license as say libcal-dev	17:32
Stskeeps	at least we have those headers compared to the nightmare of years ago	17:33
jonwil	bmeisa.h, bmehal.h, em_isi.h, bmeipc.h, bmemsg.h	17:33
Stskeeps	heh, might have hit gold there	17:33
alterego	Hah, Apple hacked	17:33
Stskeeps	compare with the libbme ones on gitorious?	17:33
Venemo_N900	Stskeeps, how come that you're visiting #maemo again?	17:33
Stskeeps	Venemo_N900: autojoin fail	17:33
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Venemo_N900	Stskeeps, aah.	17:33
jonwil	the filenames from Harmattan libbmeipc-dev and from trunk of MeeGo libbme dont match	17:35
Stskeeps	well, you hit gold then	17:35
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jonwil	Those files are useful for Harmattan work but not so good for Fremantle work as the interface to BME seems different.	17:36
Stskeeps	fairly sure those arent supposed to be there :)	17:36
jonwil	Best reference for the Fremantle BME interface is the first revision checked into libbme in MeeGo git	17:36
MohammadAG	I wonder what else isn't supposed to be there :p	17:36
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rm_work	jonwil: can you pastebin some of those for me? I would like to look at them but don't have access to SDK currently	17:37
jonwil	I used some reverse engineering tricks and also various meego git revisions to identify interfaces to libbmeipc as used by other bits of the system (I made a maemo-developer list posting about it the other day). It contained the info one would need to replace BME with a new thing that talked directly to the hardware charger chip and yet not break any existing code	17:38
jonwil	I mean existing binaries	17:39
Stskeeps	did you see my old bme protocol page?	17:39
jonwil	I think I might have. But in any case we know all we need to know to be able to replace libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme with new bits and not break anything else in the system.	17:40
jonwil	Thanks to my list posting :)	17:40
jonwil	I could even go further and completly clone libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme if I cared :)	17:40
jonwil	rm_work, are you interested in libbmeipc headers for Harmattan or for Fremantle or what?	17:41
jonwil	or just curious in general?	17:41
rm_work	Harmattan	17:41
rm_work	related to something i am working on possibly	17:41
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rm_work	what I really want to see is DSME headers	17:42
rm_work	or code... ^_^	17:42
Stskeeps	dsme is public	17:42
rm_work	err?	17:43
rm_work	since?	17:43
Stskeeps	since a fairly long time	17:43
rm_work	they "said" it was public as of Berlin	17:43
rm_work	but only published parts of it that don't matter	17:43
rm_work	kept the important bits closed still	17:43
rm_work	i need the WHOLE thing	17:43
Stskeeps	which parts are you interested in_	17:43
rm_work	the parts that control the backlight :P	17:44
jonwil	dsme is 100% open source	17:44
Stskeeps	rm_work: thats handled in mce now i think	17:44
rm_work	T_T	17:44
rm_work	so they moved it to MCE and THAT is closed?	17:44
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Stskeeps	well, sort of	17:44
jonwil	MCE is open in harmattan now also	17:44
jonwil	AFAIK	17:44
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rm_work	AH	17:44
rm_work	that would be good	17:44
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Stskeeps	fremantle one is, meego n900 mce one is open,	17:44
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rm_work	i just remember they opened DSME and it was totally useless	17:44
jonwil	yeah, we have code for Diablo mce (from who knows where), Harmattan mce, MeeGo mce but not Fremantle mce (where it would be the most usefull :P	17:45
rm_work	lol	17:45
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Stskeeps	rm_work: meego n900 has a working display plugin, at least	17:46
Stskeeps	and i think ALS code is there too	17:46
rm_work	cool	17:46
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gri	hiemanshu: having no "launchpad" listed under "My Programs" means I applied wrong or I have not been reviewed? (don't get it from your forum post)	17:47
Stskeeps	gri: just not reviewed yet, afaik	17:47
jonwil	I attempted to take Diablo/MeeGo/Harmattan MCE code and Fremantle binaries, figure out the difference and make some code that matched Fremantle	17:47
hiemanshu	gri: not been reviewed yet	17:47
jonwil	but doing it for the main mce binary was too hard	17:47
gri	Ok, as long I did not apply wrong, that's fine :)	17:47
jonwil	too many differences between the 4 versions (Fremantle, Diablo, MeeGo, Harmattan)	17:48
Stskeeps	jonwil: ignore the binary.. plugins are where the guts are	17:48
jonwil	yeah I intend to hit the plugins next	17:48
jonwil	and see which ones I can reverse engineer into a matches-fremantle state	17:48
rm_work	blah	17:50
rm_work	not seeing backlight control in MCE besides "is it on, is it dim, is it off" and "set on, set dim, set off"	17:51
jonwil	actually there is a lot more in the mce binary than you might think	17:51
jonwil	especially related to device lock, tklock, power button	17:51
jonwil	those 3 in particular were where I ended up getting stuck, deciding it was too hard and giving up	17:52
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, rm_work backlight has always been controlled in mce afaik	17:52
rm_work	MohammadAG: Diablo it was DSME	17:52
MohammadAG	but afaik, the plugin that controls that is closed in fremantle	17:52
jonwil	it might be open in MeeGo or Harmattan	17:52
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jonwil	Interesting, I commented to David and said "Its a pitty the "license change requests" thing never went anywhere	17:53
jonwil	(cf bugs like this https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11794 ) "	17:53
povbot	Bug 11794: Open Fremantle's MCE	17:53
jonwil	and he replied and said Definitely. But it took me almost 7 years just to get mce opened up	17:53
jonwil	at all (just in time for me leaving Nokia)....	17:53
jonwil	so he has left Nokia	17:54
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* Stskeeps isnt happy about the license change requests queue and the way it played out, but still maintains it was a solid process, just one of the wheels was broken		17:54
DocScrutinizer	(<Stskeeps> jonwil: ignore the binary.. plugins are where the guts are) is this also true for tweaking formats in mce.ini file?	17:54
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: hmm, good question	17:54
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: i dont recall	17:54
jonwil	I think mostly the issue with the license-change-requests queue is that the things people wanted were things that were difficult to release for various reasons (some legitimate, some less so)	17:55
DocScrutinizer	I'm pondering to finally put straight the LP5523 mess, and enable 3 engines and patterns longer than 16 steps	17:55
Stskeeps	yeah, but even slam dunk ones were difficult	17:55
Stskeeps	i think there is something to be said about open source contribution processes from 2003 doesnt apply in 2011s world of git trees and merge requests and open development	17:55
Stskeeps	those processes were centered around code dumps basically	17:56
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Stskeeps	er, drops	17:56
DocScrutinizer	yup	17:56
Stskeeps	seems even intel has difficulties with those, too	17:57
DocScrutinizer	throw over the wall, listen (or not) for the cheers	17:57
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DocScrutinizer	that's not how FOSS works today	17:57
jonwil_	I suspect a lot of the license change requests were hard not because they themselves contained senstitive bits but because they would have exposed interfaces that Nokia didnt want to expose	17:58
jonwil_	e.g. anything that would have exposed the dbus interface used to talk to the CSD daemon and its plugins	17:58
jonwil_	They seem very reluctant to expose that at all	17:58
jonwil_	which is likely why cellular-qt is closed source in Harmattan	17:59
DocScrutinizer	jonwil_: most licence changes were hard because no manpower to assign to the needed code review and legal mambojambo	17:59
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jonwil_	hmmm yeah true	17:59
jonwil_	I have seen that with other companies when it comes to releasing code	17:59
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jonwil	in any case there are all sorts of interesting bits of info out there that I plan to make use of where possible	18:00
GAN900	No emails yet?	18:00
DocScrutinizer	basically it is "we developed that 'to just work' and nobody thought about FOSS. Now opening it up means we have to redo the whole process basically"	18:00
Venemo_N900	GAN900, not for me, but some lucky bastards got one already, eg. hiemanshu	18:01
DocScrutinizer	MAIL????	18:01
DocScrutinizer	naaw	18:01
Venemo_N900	mail	18:02
hiemanshu	GAN900: no email, but I manually checked, and I have been accepted into the program	18:02
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu got accepted for launchpad - that's all	18:02
Venemo_N900	yea	18:02
jonwil	http://pastie.org/pastes/1150052 for example is one random piece of info I stumbled upon	18:02
jonwil	with google	18:02
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alterego	How many here have been accepted?	18:02
hiemanshu	alterego: me, lardman so far	18:02
* cpscotti not		18:02
jonwil	and I have plugged who knows how many package names, filenames, function names, structure names etc into Google in case something randomly useful shows up...	18:03
alterego	So 2 :)	18:03
cpscotti	me thinks you are just poking fun at the rest of us mortals with no response yet	18:03
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: well, ISI stuff is documented quite extensively on openhandeld.com or what's been the URL	18:04
jonwil	www.wirelessmodemapi.com	18:04
jonwil	and yes ofono code	18:04
hiemanshu	alterego: DocScrutinizer was already in, so technically 3	18:04
fiferboy	GAN900: IF they can process two a day we are in pretty good shape :P	18:04
jonwil	Thats great if you are working on new stuff	18:04
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jonwil	but in my case I need to work with the existing closed stack	18:04
jonwil	hence reverse engineering is the only answer most of the time	18:04
DocScrutinizer	yup	18:04
hiemanshu	fiferboy: well timoph was the one that pointed out he was accepted too	18:05
hiemanshu	thats when I checked	18:05
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jonwil	but things like that pasteie.org paste can really help fill in the gaps some times	18:06
DocScrutinizer	take that launchpad acceptance and eat it, I want a mail saying "there's a N950 waiting for you"	18:06
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: give me your email :P	18:06
DocScrutinizer	haha	18:06
DocScrutinizer	at very least I'm not watching for DHL cars parking in front of my house anymore ;-)	18:07
jonwil	Also of value is a great package called libcsnet-dev_0.4.14+0m5_armel from the Fremantle SDK nokia-binaries repo. Have to force-install it since its missing dependancies but it contains documentation for all the cellular network dbus calls	18:07
jonwil	like signal strength	18:07
jonwil	and tower info	18:08
jonwil	and stuff	18:08
DocScrutinizer	though last time with DDP exactly that happened X-P Some package arrived without ANY prior notice	18:08
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: moo	18:08
javispedro	hello	18:08
hiemanshu	javispedro: accepted yet?	18:09
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: check your account sttaus	18:09
javispedro	funnily you mention it	18:09
hiemanshu	javispedro: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/	18:09
hiemanshu	check if you can access it	18:09
DocScrutinizer	though, as just mentioned, launchpad acceptance doesn't buy you a thing really	18:09
lardman	jonwil: nice	18:09
javispedro	it now acts like if I never registered.	18:10
jonwil	you would be surprised how much info there is in /usr/share/doc/blah	18:10
hiemanshu	javispedro: check https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/	18:10
lardman	probably why that doc-purger thing is run ;)	18:10
alterego	hiemanshu: and jaffa :P	18:10
javispedro	hiemanshu, no, not yet approved seemingly.	18:10
hiemanshu	alterego: right	18:10
javispedro	wouldn't I get an email or sth if it were approved	18:11
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: (libcsnet) could you document all that stuff somewhere on wiki please?	18:11
jonwil	its not in an easy form to document	18:11
jonwil	and I dont understand it enough myself	18:11
rm_work	well, if anyone sees any actually open code for directly controlling backlight level, let me know	18:11
alterego	Anyway, Finnish day would have ended now, so I imagine no more activity until tomorrow.	18:11
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: nope	18:12
alterego	hiemanshu: were you in the first wave?	18:12
hiemanshu	alterego: yes	18:12
rm_work	but AFAICT right now I will still have to reverse engineer it again	18:12
hiemanshu	alterego: so you might be right, and yours might be wednesday :P	18:12
jonwil	I will be reverse engineering the mce plugins soon	18:12
javispedro	can't you control the backlight via procfs? </naive>	18:13
lardman	iirc it's overridden quite quickly	18:13
jonwil	If anyone has any clues to backlight (e.g. mce.ini entries, dbus signals or any other known info that could help me locate the specific code for it) please tell me	18:13
javispedro	lardman, ah, same as vibra then :S	18:13
jonwil	yeah the vibration plugin is on my todo list	18:13
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alterego	hiemanshu: well, I was 1st wave too, if that means anything :)	18:13
hiemanshu	alterego: I know	18:14
jonwil	especially since its not in any of the MCE code we have	18:14
Venemo_N900	qwerty's simple brightness applet?	18:14
alterego	They're either doing it alphabetically, or processing quims mails in order.	18:14
lardman	jonwil: grep for the device name for the sysfs entry?	18:14
alterego	Who knows :)	18:14
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jonwil	what is the sys/proc entriy then?	18:14
rm_work	javispedro: on 770 that is the only way, for Diablo it was in DSME, could set it via a socket	18:14
javispedro	btw, accelerometer comes via input layer in harmattan	18:14
rm_work	Venemo_N900: i think that just does the stock 5 levels, which is controlled by gconf	18:15
Venemo_N900	rm_work, mhm	18:15
rm_work	jonwil: for backlight, https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/adv-backlight/advanced-backlight.c?revision=145&root=adv-backlight&view=markup	18:15
rm_work	jonwil: that is how it USED to work	18:15
rm_work	look for "advanced_backlight_plugin_dsme_update_brightness" function	18:15
jonwil	ok, I will see if I can find it	18:15
jonwil	I should be able to find it inside mce	18:16
hiemanshu	alterego: they might be doing it in order, but I am sure, I wasn't really fast on the email	18:16
rm_work	or "SYSFS_BRIGHTNESS" definition = /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level	18:16
rm_work	jonwil: i mean, that is MY function :P dunno what theirs is called	18:16
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: /sys/nodes are what mce i susing and updating frequently	18:16
* Jaffa wonders if he should reveal that he hasn't got an N950 after all. Nokia shipped him a 5800 instead.		18:17
rm_work	jonwil: yeah, that sys node IS still possible to use, but it is immediately overwritten pretty much by ANYTHING	18:17
rm_work	Jaffa: rofl	18:17
lardman	:D	18:17
rm_work	jonwil: and the formula is retarded T_T	18:17
Venemo_N900	Jaffa, srsly?	18:17
Venemo_N900	lol	18:17
Jaffa	Venemo_N900: Yeah, srsly.	18:17
alterego	Jaffa: Another "upgrade"? :D	18:17
SpeedEvil	rm_work: It works adequately in pitch darkness to set the backlight level to minimum	18:18
Jaffa	alterego: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.	18:18
Venemo_N900	Jaffa :D	18:18
DocScrutinizer	rm_work: yes. that's where my idea is from, to LD_PRELOAD a wrapper to catch all open() and write() and related file funcrions when tehy match a certain path	18:18
rm_work	SpeedEvil: yeah :P	18:18
Jaffa	alterego: E7s seem to go for about 280 quid these days on ebay	18:18
jonwil	are you talking about screen brightness or keyboard backlight?	18:18
rm_work	DocScrutinizer: R O F L	18:18
rm_work	jonwil: screen	18:18
jonwil	ok	18:18
SpeedEvil	Is there an easy way to esit the levels that advanced-backlight-widget sets?	18:18
alterego	Jaffa: it's when you tell us they're running windows phone as a strategic coup.	18:19
rm_work	SpeedEvil: ?	18:19
DocScrutinizer	rm_work: ???	18:19
SpeedEvil	rm_work: I want to set the lowest to '2' - for example	18:19
rm_work	DocScrutinizer: that just might work, and it's a hilarious idea	18:19
alterego	hiemanshu: so, kinda looks like my tomorrow guess was correct ;) hopefully :)	18:19
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javispedro	hah	18:19
DocScrutinizer	it's a HACK	18:19
rm_work	SpeedEvil: ah, yeah i could implement that	18:19
DocScrutinizer	a nasty one too	18:19
javispedro	the only way they are approving my launchpad application is with a hammer	18:20
rm_work	DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's why I ROFLed :P	18:20
Jaffa	alterego: SSH only works cos it's running a qemu port to WP7	18:20
hiemanshu	alterego: yes :)	18:20
javispedro	that, or an act of god.	18:20
lardman	alterego: well at least your predicton can no longer be late ;)	18:20
DocScrutinizer	even more of a hack is to sed -i "s./sys.XXX." mce.binary	18:20
rm_work	SpeedEvil: I mean, the "levels" that ABL sets are... any backlight number	18:20
rm_work	SpeedEvil: I could allow the user to change the low/high range	18:20
* javispedro has ordered two devices pluse n950 thing on monday, and is making bets who will ship first: lenovo, amazon, or nokia.		18:20
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rm_work	so instead of going from 0-127, it goes 2-120	18:21
rm_work	or something	18:21
jonwil	ok, in the mce code I see display.h with a #define DISPLAY_BACKLIGHT_PATH /sys/class/backlight	18:21
rm_work	javispedro: amazon >_>	18:21
rm_work	javispedro: no question :P	18:21
javispedro	rm_work, not sure actually, lenovo estimate says shorter time	18:21
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you did WHAT?	18:21
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: order a N950???	18:22
javispedro	obviously not	18:22
DocScrutinizer	sorry, misread	18:22
javispedro	parse as (has ordered two devices) plus (n950 thing)	18:22
rm_work	javispedro: amazon usually ships basically instantly... tho i guess, did you buy it from AMAZON, or from some dealer VIA amazon?	18:22
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: You're now sending like qole on any mention of 'meltemi'	18:23
jonwil	so on Harmattan we have /sys/class/backlight as #define DISPLAY_BACKLIGHT_PATH	18:23
jonwil	and in MeeGo code we have the same path defined as DISPLAY_CABC_PATH	18:23
javispedro	rm_work, for some reason they have not shipped yet	18:23
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rm_work	jonwil: well, k. though I doubt the sysfs node is going to be the way to go	18:23
jonwil	Either way, it looks like I need to reverse engineer and clone the Fremantle libdisplay.so file for backlight work	18:23
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: elaborate please	18:23
fiferboy	Jaffa: Meltemi! Who knows about that!!	18:23
jonwil	then you can replace it	18:23
javispedro	rm_work, (despite all of the items I bought being in stock)	18:23
jonwil	and do things your way	18:23
jonwil	or should be able to	18:23
javispedro	yes, that would be useful =)	18:24
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: qole at the conference was convinced that finding the answer to "What is Meltemi?" would illuminate Nokia's secret plans for the continuation of MeeGo	18:24
rm_work	jonwil: yes, very useful :P	18:24
rm_work	lolwut	18:24
lardman	Jaffa: and did he find the answer?	18:24
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: It was funny/exciting/embarrassing[* delete as appropriate]	18:24
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: sounds rather nuts	18:24
jonwil	rm_work, do you follow the maemo-developers mailing llist?	18:24
jonwil	Anything I do related to mce code will be posted on there most likely	18:25
Jaffa	lardman: No, of course not - it's just the name of another internal project. Probably WP7-ey	18:25
lardman	ah ok	18:25
Jaffa	lardman: But he was like Pavlov's dogs ;)	18:25
rm_work	jonwil: i used to but somehow i got un-signed-up	18:25
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jonwil	ok	18:25
rm_work	but i am around here a lot	18:25
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lardman	so not a red herring planted on purpose then :)	18:25
Jaffa	lardman: :)	18:25
javispedro	it's a planet on the M57 galaxy	18:25
javispedro	*a sun	18:25
javispedro	they are obviously sending Elop there.	18:25
* lardman wonders what the Finnish for "red herring" is		18:25
lardman	harhautus or harhautusyritys apparently fwiw	18:26
jonwil	but yeah lots of the readme files and docs for various packages have useful info	18:27
Corsac	hmhm, shouldn't the next wind start by J?	18:27
lardman	Why J?	18:28
javispedro	yes, what happened to Inverna?	18:28
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lardman	It should be G, but we've already done that one, so next by my reckoning is I	18:28
Stskeeps	you mean ilmatar	18:28
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javispedro	heh	18:29
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lardman	sounds like another code word for Qole :)	18:29
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Stskeeps	ironically i was at a intel hiring event at the same address of tuxera ntfs guys and a resturant ilmatar	18:30
jonwil	cool, someone came up with a header file for the otherwise closed HildonTimeZoneChooser widget	18:32
jonwil	neat	18:32
Stskeeps	i still find it interesting it was said that qt5 wont be for symbian	18:33
alterego	I hope the face recognition / object tracking stuff in Harmattan is open enough to use.	18:33
DocScrutinizer	elopocalypse	18:33
alterego	Though I imagine it's neither recognition or tracking.	18:34
DocScrutinizer	definitely it's face detection, not recognition	18:34
alterego	Yeah,	18:34
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alterego	I'm contemplating an auto tagger for camera	18:35
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alterego	Doing it before uploading to facebook, on your phone, seems less intrusive ..	18:35
DocScrutinizer	who was it that claimed he got true face recognition working on maemo?	18:35
lardman	alterego: apparently more info will be available on that after the N9 launch	18:35
alterego	Where as the auto recognition _on_ facebook, got a lot of flack.	18:35
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: face detection	18:36
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DocScrutinizer	I thought somebody was working on recognition though	18:36
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DocScrutinizer	mentioned that 2 or 4 days ago in this chan	18:36
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yes I was	18:36
DocScrutinizer	I may be wrong	18:36
hiemanshu	I am working on it	18:36
hiemanshu	but I got face detection working	18:37
DocScrutinizer	aah	18:37
DocScrutinizer	openCV comes to mind	18:37
hiemanshu	yup	18:37
* DocScrutinizer wonders about the strange processes in his brain sometimes		18:38
jonwil	interesting, the csd-gprs package comes with dbus docs for it	18:38
jonwil	neat	18:38
alterego	bbl	18:38
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: you NEED a blog, or a dedicated wikipage, wher we could look up all the awesome stuff you dig up every day	18:38
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: there are quite a few examples with opencv, libface and haar detections	18:38
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: IRC is too volatile for that sort of stuff	18:39
jonwil	:)	18:39
DocScrutinizer	mailing lists too unstructured	18:39
* hiemanshu will bbl		18:40
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: I'm doing my best to keep up with all that bits of info you dump here, but I fail	18:40
rm_work	jonwil: yes plz, blog	18:41
jonwil	I just dont have the time to do a formal blog. I think the most likely place to dump this would be some wiki page(s) somewhere on the maemo wiki	18:41
jonwil	if I get any time to do it that is	18:41
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: honestly, if you want others to profit from your work, you need a central place where everything is aggregated	18:41
DocScrutinizer	do it on wiki	18:42
jonwil	yeah if I get the chance I will see what I can toss up there	18:42
jonwil	in the way of links and info	18:42
DocScrutinizer	add random bits, the page may look like a mess, as long as the bits are documented there and not only here on IRC	18:42
rm_work	jonwil: a blog is not hard. register for some random blog site, just paste whatever you find into the text box and hit "post"	18:43
rm_work	jonwil: it's even less clicks than a wiki IMO	18:44
jonwil	wiki is better, its easier for me	18:44
* alterego agrees		18:44
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alterego	Just do something ..	18:44
rm_work	yeah, given then people can reformat for you	18:44
jonwil	and add their own info	18:44
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Wifi_Hotspot and http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/NAT	18:44
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: ...for an example	18:45
lardman	I'd go with the wiki, then the structure can be organised by people who are interested in that, leaving you to crack on with the investigation, which is what interests you	18:45
jonwil	with regards to opening stuff up, more often than not, its not actual code I want, its definitions of dbus calls, disk files, gconf configs and stuff. Or its header files and info on a handful of functions	18:45
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/ for a more messy example	18:45
jonwil	for example there are maybe 1/2 dozen functions in libconnui and libconnui-qt that I wish I had info on but dont.	18:46
DocScrutinizer	lardman: ++	18:46
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GeneralAntilles	So, kimitake is the 3rd person to get an email.	18:49
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DocScrutinizer	what mail??	18:49
terriririst	n950	18:50
DocScrutinizer	:-o	18:50
rm_work	jonwil: yeah, do a wiki page like that, and even put a section for "LOOKING FOR INFO ON [...]" and maybe anonymous people will add stuff for you :P	18:50
DocScrutinizer	who's second then?	18:50
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: what does the email look like?	18:51
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, think it was thp.	18:51
DocScrutinizer	hmm	18:51
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, same as Jaffa's, I guess.	18:51
DocScrutinizer	no mail here yet	18:51
rm_work	which was?	18:51
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DocScrutinizer	"A N950 is waiting for you. Sincerely, noreply@nokia"	18:52
DocScrutinizer	I gather	18:53
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Corsac	I got my NACK on friday :(	18:53
Jaffa	Basically, yes.	18:53
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: FWIW, it then did appear in the "Devices available" section of the DDP. Well, that's where the URL in the email went.	18:54
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: I was clicking quite quickly so didn't explorer any other routes to get to the same info ;-)	18:54
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: \o/	18:54
* DocScrutinizer hits F5		18:54
DocScrutinizer	not yet	18:55
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timeless	hello world	18:55
timeless	sp3000: ping	18:55
GeneralAntilles	Hey, timeless.	18:56
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: you might want to edit your post and add https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP	18:56
timeless	(or any Finnish speaker)	18:56
timeless	hi	18:56
lardman	hi timeless	18:56
DocScrutinizer	hi timeless, long time no see	18:56
* timeless is enjoying Toronto		18:56
DocScrutinizer	heh	18:56
timeless	well... I also managed to give myself a nasty sunburn on Sunday	18:56
timeless	Sunny day... keeping the clouds away ...	18:56
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timeless	ok, this is odd	18:57
timeless	Sampo bank sent me a letter in English	18:57
rm_work	lol	18:57
* timeless didn't know they could do that		18:57
* rm_work waves at timeless		18:57
timeless	hi	18:57
timeless	Your loans: <one item> \| have been transferred from Sampo Bank plc to Sampo Housing Loan Bank plc on <date>.	18:58
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Corsac	aha	18:58
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timeless	You are among those of our favoured loan customers whose loan (see loan numbers and ocrresponding capital above) and related collaterals have been transferred to Sampo Housing Loan Bank plc.	18:58
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DocScrutinizer	congrats	18:59
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Specifically https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950	18:59
timeless	...	19:00
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: even more appreciated to post that link somewhere, as it doesn't show up for me otherwise	19:00
MohammadAG	yay timeless's back :D	19:00
timeless	You must contact your branch of Sampo Bank, use Web bank or call Sampo banks telephone service <number>, if you have a query about the loan, would like to have interest only, if you want to discuss other potential changes to your loan or apply for at new loan.	19:00
timeless	<typos in the above are theirs!>	19:00
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timeless	Well, it clearly wasn't written by a native speaker, and it clearly isn't a machine translation...	19:01
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: It's in the post. But it's the top thing in the email. Hell, it's the only thing I saw ;-)	19:01
fiferboy	timeless: You're enjoying Canada?	19:02
timeless	yes, it's great	19:02
timeless	wonderful weather (perhaps a bit sunny -- see sun burn...)	19:02
timeless	friendly people (this is a big plus)	19:02
rm_work	you're not in... FRENCH CANADA... are you? T_T	19:03
timeless	lots of things to do (this is a huge difference)	19:03
timeless	rm_work: no, Toronto is definitely not French Canada :)	19:03
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: fine, now I definitely know what to script	19:03
rm_work	whew	19:03
fiferboy	rm_work: He said friendly people, so no :P	19:03
DocScrutinizer	:-)	19:03
rm_work	fiferboy: yeah :P	19:03
* rm_work has to deal with french canadians for work T_T		19:03
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* fiferboy does too, but not directly		19:04
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, stop hitting F5, you'll get an email :P	19:04
lardman	Quebec was interesting last year....	19:04
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: or not, if it gets rejected by spamfilter like ~70% of Nokia mails	19:05
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, you'll see everyone talking about it then ;)	19:05
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fiferboy	lardman: Interesting good?	19:06
lardman	hmm	19:06
DocScrutinizer	no, I won't as I'm not looking everywhere to see people talk about sth	19:06
lardman	the weather was nice	19:06
* javispedro curses good weather		19:06
lardman	I'd say we won't be planning to head back soon	19:06
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: scripting the F5 hitting is definitely the better method	19:07
javispedro	I want clouds, DARKNESS!!	19:07
fiferboy	lardman: Did you see any of English Canada?	19:07
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, breaking it off they keyboard is even better :P	19:07
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, and you're always on IRC, you'll see most of us talking about how we ordered N950s and are now waiting for them	19:07
lardman	fiferboy: unfortunately not	19:08
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: so what? I got that "watch page" in FF	19:08
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fiferboy	lardman: I drove sort of nearish to Bath in the fall	19:09
lardman	nearish meaning Scotland? ;)	19:09
fiferboy	lardman: No, Cardiff to London	19:09
* GAN900 contemplates driving to see the shuttle launch		19:10
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* GAN900 gets lazy.		19:10
fiferboy	GAN900: It's your last chance!	19:10
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timeless	:(, no Finnish speakers?	19:10
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lardman	oh right, pretty close then; if you're about again give us a shout, we have more rooms now	19:10
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: they still launch shuttles?	19:10
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lardman	final F5, and nothing available yet	19:12
* lardman heads for home, catch you all on the morrow		19:12
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MohammadAG	hmm, can someone create an instance of a class from itself?	19:14
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, last one.	19:14
GeneralAntilles	timeless, Summer holiday? :P	19:14
javispedro	MohammadAG, stupid question? or is there something else?	19:14
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Of course. Why not?	19:15
timeless	GeneralAntilles: ...	19:15
javispedro	hiya timeless	19:16
jonwil	Its perfectly fine to create an instance of a class from inside itself	19:16
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timeless	hi	19:16
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MohammadAG	javispedro, stupid question ;)	19:16
javispedro	:D	19:17
javispedro	happens sometimes..	19:17
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* javispedro today for some reason forgot that "-" is used often to represent stdin/stdout in args and wondered why "_" didn't work, until I decided to do an ls and saw the _ file...		19:18
jonwil	finding people who know stuff about otherwise undocumented parts of maemo is hard :P	19:19
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jonwil	and I am now convinced more than ever that we will never have source code for the mce binary that is usable on Fremantle :)	19:21
timeless	- isn't really a Maemo-ism	19:21
timeless	it's a standard Unix-ism	19:22
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jonwil	Nor will we ever be able to replace the cell stack with ofono (too many undocumented pieces of the jigsaw there)	19:22
SpeedEvil	:/	19:22
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jonwil	ICD is also too closed to be of use	19:22
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* timeless rotfl		19:24
timeless	Notification concerning transfer of residence	19:24
timeless	Dear Client,	19:24
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timeless	You requested a correspondence to Your application in English.	19:24
slonopotamus	jonwil: that's the main reason why i didn't attempt to run gentoo on n900. too much closed stuff.	19:24
timeless	We are sorry to inform, but we cannot give a resolution in English.	19:24
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GeneralAntilles	timeless, that's a bit sad.	19:25
timeless	Short translation to the resultion, sent to You, is that since You have meoved permanently abroad (Canada), You no longer are covered under the Finnish social security system from <date> onwards.	19:25
timeless	Yours sincerely	19:25
timeless	<Author -- who also wrote the Finnish thing which was considerably longer>	19:25
timeless	GeneralAntilles: what i find amusing is that she gave me what I wanted	19:25
rm_work	timeless: you moved to Canada, permanently? how did i miss that, lol	19:26
timeless	but she sent me two distinct letters: the official Finnish one and the unofficial English one	19:26
timeless	I guess they don't care about cost of mail delivery	19:26
timeless	rm_work: i mostly announced it on fb...	19:27
timeless	i've been here a month	19:27
timeless	well, i also told people @MeeGo/SF	19:27
timeless	since I was going to Toronto the following week..	19:27
rm_work	heh yeah, wonder if i wasn't paying attention or if we aren't FB friends :P	19:29
rm_work	ah well, looks like i'm using Google+ now	19:29
timeless	rm_work: you should be able to find me if we aren't, i tried to add people between Jan and May (for Maemo people mostly May)	19:30
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timeless	i'm still waiting on G+	19:30
timeless	i got an invite after it ran out of slots	19:30
rm_work	me too	19:30
rm_work	they add more slots like every hour or so	19:30
MohammadAG	I got an invite before it ran out of slots and I couldn't join	19:31
rm_work	just got my invite on friday from hiemanshu	19:31
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* MohammadAG has to wait 32 days		19:31
timeless	why?	19:31
hiemanshu	if anyone wants invited, PM me your gmail ID	19:31
hiemanshu	invites*	19:32
MohammadAG	cause that's when I turn 18	19:32
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: under 18 not allowed?	19:32
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MohammadAG	hiemanshu, yeah	19:34
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: thats stupid, I thought it was 13+	19:34
cpscotti	hiemanshu: no.. it's G+	19:34
jonwil	Given meego-on-N900, the only really closed source bits of software left right now are sgx, wl1251-cal (which I reverse engineered a while back and dumped notes on the wiki for IIRC), sysinfod (whatever that does), closed pulseaudio bits (never did find out what those do or why they need to be closed), libcal and BME	19:34
jonwil	and I think GPS blobs	19:34
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MohammadAG	This feature is not available for your account	19:35
MohammadAG	You must be over a certain age to use this feature.	19:35
cpscotti	(hehe)	19:35
hiemanshu	cpscotti: hah	19:35
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: use fake ages :P	19:35
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, cba, they're only 32 days :P	19:36
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I could change the world in 32 days! :P	19:37
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hiemanshu	F5 F5 F5 F5	19:38
hiemanshu	bleh, the DDP page is still empty :(	19:38
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DocScrutinizer	hehe, same here	19:45
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hiemanshu	I wonder why I dont have email yet	19:49
gri	they haven't found a trainee to check the list yet? :D	19:51
timeless	http://www.new-technology-online.com/black-nokia-n9/	19:51
timeless	what's w/ the second big picture on that page?	19:51
SpeedEvil	haha.	19:52
SpeedEvil	The corners change shape when you open the keyboard.	19:52
SpeedEvil	What an innovative idea!	19:52
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* SpeedEvil patents.		19:52
hiemanshu	plus it gets extra buttons!	19:53
jonwil	Anyone know of a list of all the packages that come with a harmattan install on either n950 or n9?	19:53
jonwil	Not the SDK, the actual on-phone package list	19:53
Stskeeps	jonwil: pulseaudio stuff is basically nokia algorithms that help audio quality and other 3gpp mandated stuff	19:54
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javispedro	jonwil, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G92Ugk7c	19:54
jonwil	Looks like some of that stuff is opensource in Harmattan	19:54
jonwil	pulseaudio-meego, pulseaudio-policy-enforcement and some stuff like that	19:54
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jonwil	oh wait no, looks like they are just not in the SDK	19:55
Stskeeps	think weve abstracted the algorithms out at least	19:55
Stskeeps	you can work without them, fwiw	19:55
jonwil	so pulseaudio-module-nokia-algorithms and pulseaudio-module-nokia-common and pulseaudio-module-nokia-eci-parameters	19:55
Stskeeps	but audio quality may suffer	19:55
jonwil	seem to remain	19:55
jonwil	and are presumably still closed in Harmattan	19:55
Stskeeps	yeah.. and those are pretty much fat chance to get released	19:56
Stskeeps	very much of what makes a nokia phone nokia	19:56
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jonwil	yeah audio quality is a BIG point of difference with phone makers	19:56
jonwil	so algorithims that improve audio quality (esp call quality) are big business	19:57
Stskeeps	i want to transform them towards a lib or something like that so we arent hurt by pulseaudio updates, so thats one action point for me	19:57
Stskeeps	as at this rate we can assume at some point, the honey stops	19:58
jonwil	I think the answer would be to do something a bit like what NVIDIA does with their kernel blob for their GPUs	19:58
Stskeeps	:nod:	19:58
jonwil	i.e. you figure out the minimum bits that must remain closed and transfer the code into static libraries which dont call any pulseaudio functions at all	19:58
jonwil	instead they call glue code	19:58
jonwil	which then calls whatever pulseaudio bits they need to call	19:59
Stskeeps	that is my plan, but lets see	19:59
jonwil	something else that I think is still closed is the stuff for speaker protection	19:59
Corsac	jonwil: wan't a dpkg -l on a n950 rootfs?	19:59
Stskeeps	jonwil: :nod:	19:59
jonwil	i.e. to keep audio from damaning the speakers on the device	19:59
* KMFDM didn't get an n950 :(		20:00
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Stskeeps	at least we dont have any closed kernel drivers	20:00
KMFDM	nor is the n9 going to be sold in my country i'll have to import from germany or something	20:00
Stskeeps	that is just such a mess	20:00
macmaN	cryptsetup is on the device, i wonder what theyre doing with that	20:00
RST38h	Stskeeps: Linux not having binary driver API is a part of this mess	20:01
Stskeeps	RST38h: no disagreements	20:01
jonwil	yeah closed kernel drivers are a nightmare	20:01
jonwil	Often though what you get is a company that moves the closed bits to userspace	20:01
jonwil	and has a kernel shim that just does the actual hardware access	20:01
jonwil	same as what BME does I guess :)	20:01
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RST38h	Sounds like just an uglier case to do the same though	20:02
jonwil	so can anyone tell me just what sysinfod/libsysinfo actually does?	20:02
jonwil	best guess is that it retrieves information from various system places (cal, secure storage etc)	20:02
Stskeeps	jonwil: good guess	20:02
jonwil	and that its closed because Nokia doesnt want people to be able to touch those secure areas	20:02
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jonwil	I am surprised that the libsysinfo headers are in the Harmattan SDK though	20:03
MohammadAG	Checking Maemo Heartbeat ... Not Found <-- wtf is Maemo Heartbeat	20:03
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: libiphb	20:03
Stskeeps	very interesting technology but noone uses it	20:03
Jaffa	MohammadAG: That was/is the thing which synchronised network access IIRC	20:03
jonwil	Although it could be that sysinfo headers are in the SDK by mistake...	20:03
Jaffa	But it should've been implemented at the stack level, rather than being an API developers had to rewrite to use	20:04
Stskeeps	its just a dbus interface	20:04
Stskeeps	(sysinfo)	20:04
Corsac	jonwil: http://molly.corsac.net/~corsac/maemo/harmattan/dpkg.txt	20:04
jonwil	no, its both a dbus interface (/com/nokia/SystemInfo) and a library (libsysinfo)	20:05
jonwil	Both the dbus interface and the library are documented through the headers in the Harmattan SDK	20:05
Stskeeps	think that is just a dbus wrapper	20:05
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jonwil	possibly	20:06
jonwil	although sysinfod links to libsysinfo	20:06
jonwil	so it might be the other way around	20:06
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jonwil	in any case its all documented	20:06
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jonwil	reading sysinfo.h I can see why some of this stuff is sensitive	20:07
jonwil	things like wlan mac address	20:07
jonwil	or bluetooth ids	20:08
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jonwil	or imei	20:08
jonwil	secure certificate access	20:08
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jonwil	I think I finally understand what all the closed-in-meego bits DO at long last :)	20:11
jonwil	and why they are closed	20:11
Stskeeps	in meego we have really tried to avoid blobs for no good reason, but some powers are just stronger than us :)	20:12
jonwil	yeah	20:12
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jonwil	Like the FCC for example (referencing wl1251-cal here)	20:12
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jonwil	being that wl1251-cal appears to be responsible for important stuff related to detecting which of the different sets of wireless regulations should be used at the current time	20:13
jonwil	e.g. FCC or EU or whatever	20:13
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Stskeeps	at least the situation is better than years ago, we can fairly easily get a binary-only license that can be redistributed for non commercial purposes	20:14
Stskeeps	that is really a big step up	20:14
wmarone	are these hardware specific bits?	20:14
Stskeeps	yeah	20:14
jonwil	yes, all these bits are specific to the N900	20:14
Stskeeps	no closed source goes into meego trunk, trunk must not depend on them	20:15
wmarone	right	20:15
wmarone	ok, just making sure I wasn't reading it wrong	20:15
jonwil	I just hope Nokia will give meego-ce all the needed blobs for meego-ce-on-n9(50)	20:15
Stskeeps	it makes the platform so much more portable than maemo ever was	20:15
Stskeeps	jonwil: we are very actively working on it	20:15
jonwil	I am sure	20:15
jonwil	N9 and N950 should be made first class citizens for meego-ce just as N900 is	20:16
Stskeeps	it has been running alongside meego ce images for a long time	20:17
Stskeeps	i would really like a proper upstream based kernel but that is in progress..	20:17
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jonwil	Are there technical reasons why the GPS bits on MeeGo N900 are closed? Reasons related to nokia-secret-ip like the pulseaudio bits? Or does it just need some sort of redo in the way ofono n900 support is a redo of the old cell stack?	20:21
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so I got opencv to compile on sbox for harmattan as well (with a few patches yes), now only to find a way to disable the aegis crap so I can test it when I get hold of it	20:22
timeless	jonwil: i'd hope that was answered by qgil ages ago..	20:22
* timeless can't remember offhand		20:22
jonwil	I cant remember either	20:22
timeless	i know nokia has too much ipr in that area	20:22
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jonwil	I am guessing though its issues related to nokia secret IP related to making their GPS better than the other guys (including not wanting to let just anyone use their AGPS implementation and backend servers)	20:22
timeless	i think the low level drivers might be licensed from someone	20:22
jonwil	IIRC the lowlevel stuff for GPS is done on the cell modem	20:23
SpeedEvil	The cellmo just spits out location	20:23
* timeless tried not to pay attn to that stuff		20:23
SpeedEvil	Pretty much	20:23
Stskeeps	jonwil: well, we get stuff working first, under redistributable license, but location based stuff is a differentiation thing :/	20:23
jonwil	true	20:24
Stskeeps	i wouldnt mind if someone properly reversed the communication	20:24
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Stskeeps	but even that didnt happen on n8x0	20:24
jonwil	n8x0 GPS is very different arch to n900	20:24
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SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: Someone has	20:25
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: n8x0 GPS is _vastly_ different	20:25
Stskeeps	but even with that, agps info is needed	20:25
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: All the high level stuff is done in the CPU on the 8x0	20:25
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: It's all done in the 'GPS' in the n900	20:25
Stskeeps	i know..	20:25
Stskeeps	:P	20:25
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: AGPS isn't actually needed	20:25
SpeedEvil	It's nice, but not needed.	20:25
Stskeeps	very useful if you dont have patience :P	20:25
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rm_work	i have a bluetooth GPS unit that gets a fix in <10s in almost every single case, even cold-boot across the globe.... so why is AGPS necessary? >_>	20:27
Stskeeps	cos the antenna sucks in nokia devices	20:27
Stskeeps	:P	20:27
rm_work	lol	20:27
rm_work	ridiculous T_T	20:27
rm_work	so they wouldn't NEED to have fancy proprietary agps code and servers.... if they just manufactured a phone with a decent GPS Antenna for once >_>	20:28
jonwil	btw, about the low level communication, I have a file pn_location_isi.h taken from a Nokia QT SDK which seems to be a correct match for the N900	20:28
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jonwil	so the info on the actual interface to the cellmo over isi/phonet IS documented	20:29
DocScrutinizer	actually it seems AGPS as of APE doesn't really work - at least sometimes	20:29
rm_work	APE?	20:29
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DocScrutinizer	APlication proceesor Environment	20:30
DocScrutinizer	i.e. "linux"	20:30
DocScrutinizer	as opposed ti cmt	20:30
DocScrutinizer	to*	20:30
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rm_work	wait, what? so that translates to "AGPS doesn't really work on linux"?	20:31
Choom	rm_work: it is likely that your GPS device saves your last location so that it can speed up the syncing	20:31
rm_work	like, presently	20:31
rm_work	Choom: as i said, even cold-boot across the globe :P	20:31
DocScrutinizer	last time I checked a device with proper access to internet via WLAN (for SUPL) but without a SIM card to get GPS hints via GSM didn't acquire a fix	20:31
SpeedEvil	rm_work: I question if that's possible.	20:31
rm_work	i'm aware it can get a hot-fix, and THAT takes <3s	20:31
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rm_work	SpeedEvil: well, anyone i was with in Berlin saw it	20:32
jonwil	in any case I see no great obstacles in the way preventing someone (e.g. freesmartphone people) from doing usable GPS on the N900	20:32
SpeedEvil	rm_work: By cold boot, do you mean that has not been turned on in over 12 weeks?	20:32
SpeedEvil	Or has no stored data at all?	20:32
rm_work	i mean last time it was turned on, it was in Texas, and now it's in Berlin	20:32
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SpeedEvil	Ah - that's a different case then.	20:32
SpeedEvil	It has live almanac	20:32
SpeedEvil	and probably ephimeredes.	20:33
SpeedEvil	So you can plausibly get a position in on the order of 6 seconds.	20:33
rm_work	AFAIK it can't hot-fix outside of like.... a hundred miles or so	20:33
rm_work	ok	20:33
rm_work	interesting	20:33
jonwil	Even the supl/agps issue can be dealt with (IIRC google provides a supl server)	20:33
DocScrutinizer	rm_work: the alm and ephem are global	20:33
rm_work	it was also able to get an accurate fix inside an airplane	20:33
rm_work	that lead to hilarious speed readings	20:33
SpeedEvil	The GPS satellites broadcast 'time' every 6 seconds.	20:34
rm_work	tracked my plane on the way to LAX for about 5 minutes	20:34
DocScrutinizer	after that you got your current alm/ephem	20:34
rm_work	left quite a quick trail :P	20:34
DocScrutinizer	if it's in storage	20:34
SpeedEvil	You need to recieve at least one time signal. If you odn't have an almanac, or ephemerides, you need at least one 30s cycle of the signal.	20:34
rm_work	ok	20:34
rm_work	so then	20:34
rm_work	the n810 / n900 GPS still has no excuse for taking 5 minutes	20:35
rm_work	though the n900 isn't QUITE that bad	20:35
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: I think FSO guys made it down to st like 14s without stored pickle?	20:35
SpeedEvil	It's not quite that simple. Sometimes there is a good excuse.	20:35
jonwil	http://thenokiablog.com/2009/12/16/google-location-server-supl/	20:35
SpeedEvil	As the recievers need to be individually tuned per satellite	20:35
jonwil	seems like using the Google supl server may help	20:35
rm_work	erm	20:35
rm_work	so again	20:36
rm_work	what advantage would my BT GPS have, if it was turned off at the same time as an n810 GPS in Texas, and then turned on at the same time in Berlin?	20:36
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rm_work	besides a useful antenna? :P	20:36
SpeedEvil	rm_work: Better firmware, and possibly more correlators.	20:36
DocScrutinizer	rm_work: advantage is your BT mouse doesn't suck on GPS implementation ;-P	20:37
rm_work	wouldn't it have seen the same sattelites? :P	20:37
SpeedEvil	rm_work: The resciever has to search through a three dimensional 'space' to find the points that represent the current satellite position.	20:37
SpeedEvil	rm_work: Throwing enough hardware at it, one or two of these dimensions can be solved 'instantly'	20:38
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SpeedEvil	(within 20ms or so)	20:38
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DocScrutinizer	those are the correlators	20:38
jonwil	anyhow, there is information that suggests that using the google supl server is better on the n900	20:38
jonwil	so I will give it a go :)	20:38
jonwil	and see what happens	20:38
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: NB usually the "supl" the GPS is using gets delovered via GSM network	20:39
DocScrutinizer	if you got any SIM inserted	20:39
jonwil	well people said its better	20:39
jonwil	so it cant hurt to try it :P	20:39
DocScrutinizer	only a few carriers don't support it on their network	20:40
rm_work	my n900 is set to the nokia one...	20:40
rm_work	i will try changing it	20:40
rm_work	what is the google one?	20:40
jonwil	supl.google.com	20:40
rm_work	lol k	20:40
MohammadAG	fucking facebook	20:40
DocScrutinizer	you'll most likely get random results unless you understand exactly what you're doing	20:40
MohammadAG	right after I implemented something I found out I can't access it with the API	20:41
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: language :P	20:41
macmaN	fuck facebook	20:41
macmaN	in the face	20:41
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rm_work	(book)	20:41
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, didn't know this was a family channel	20:41
GeneralAntilles	hiemanshu, hey, this isn't #meego. :P	20:41
macmaN	afaik there are no females either	20:41
macmaN	just guy talk all the way!	20:41
rm_work	yeah, Myrrti is gone i think :/	20:42
MohammadAG	does it matter if there are females?	20:42
rm_work	to meego	20:42
jonwil	btw, http://gitorious.org/maemo-5-certificate-manager/ is nice to have	20:42
jonwil	nice to have that code to play with	20:42
hiemanshu	GeneralAntilles: did you check if you have access yet?	20:42
GeneralAntilles	Just now.	20:42
GeneralAntilles	and no.	20:42
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: follow the fucking freenode rules	20:42
jonwil	it even includes all the root certificates and stuff	20:42
DocScrutinizer	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=884296#post884296 (<---AGPS broken)	20:42
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MohammadAG	I mean, females swear all the time	20:42
rm_work	lol	20:42
macmaN	since the ratio is like 1 to 1134 it makes sense to hold diversity precious and refrain from cursing	20:42
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: stop playing with their dolls then	20:43
ruskie	I never can install that certman	20:43
ruskie	should probably try rolling my own	20:43
hiemanshu	'Digia Plc is a Finland base usability house that provides this service for EUR890' <--- LOLWAT	20:43
tzafrir_laptop	If I sync my data from N900 with syncevolution, where does it store the actual synced data?	20:43
Stskeeps	hiemanshu: hm?	20:44
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: do you run it?	20:44
Stskeeps	run what	20:44
jonwil	FYI, I can confirm that any certificates that would be used to access the nokia supl server are included as part of that maemosec package, i.e. there are NO certificates stored in the GPS code itself that I have seen :)	20:44
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: Digia Plc :P	20:44
jonwil	which is useful for the freesmartphone guys :P	20:45
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: 'Welcome to User Experience Evaluation Service! ' <--- launchpad thing	20:45
macmaN	hiemanshu: what about digia?	20:45
Stskeeps	hiemanshu: no	20:45
* MohammadAG puts on grammar nazi hat and visits the N950 wiki page		20:45
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hiemanshu	macmaN: 890 Euros to evaluate the UX	20:46
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macmaN	i guess it depends	20:46
Stskeeps	hiemanshu: cheap	20:46
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: cheap?	20:46
Stskeeps	i would be more expensive	20:46
macmaN	depends on what exactly do they give you for that money	20:46
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macmaN	if it's just a poster saying "ROX" or "SUX"	20:47
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macmaN	i probably would pay $100 for that	20:47
macmaN	:P	20:47
rm_work	i work for a company that pays somewhere around $1,000,000 / year for licensing...	20:47
hiemanshu	macmaN: I'd give it to you and ask your opinion :P	20:47
macmaN	yeah but i expect one helluva designer poster	20:47
macmaN	art museum type shiznit	20:47
rm_work	890 Euro is kinda lolz	20:47
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Stskeeps	8 hours of qualified work	20:48
hiemanshu	well 890 euros to me is a lot	20:48
Stskeeps	you would be surprised how expensive a lot of activities are in mobile linux	20:48
ruskie	hehe... ~200eur more and it's my monthly pay	20:48
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: maybe I should open a company that does that	20:49
macmaN	hiemanshu: that would be quite a welcome move	20:50
macmaN	competition is the only thing driving price down	20:50
macmaN	i might get my SUX poster for $50	20:50
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jonwil	anyone know if the Ageis stuff on the N9/N950 would get in the way of meego-ce on those devices?	20:50
jonwil	i.e. whatever the security crap is	20:50
hiemanshu	jonwil: ask DocScrutinizer :P	20:51
DocScrutinizer	~aegis	20:51
infobot	it has been said that aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism	20:51
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: :-P	20:51
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: anyways opencv compiles fine in sbox for harmattan	20:52
hiemanshu	well it needs a few patches	20:52
Stskeeps	jonwil: no	20:52
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: is the N950 bootloader closed? or did they leave it open?	20:52
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: actually meego-CE has problems with aegis, as they want to set up dualboot and that doesn't coexist with meegoHarm trusted mode	20:53
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Stskeeps	hiemanshu: closed and developer mode	20:53
hiemanshu	dammit	20:54
DocScrutinizer	I.E. for now it seems you lose meegoHarm when installing meegoCE	20:54
Stskeeps	hiemanshu: specifics is a little hazy to me	20:54
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DocScrutinizer	someone of Nokia is tackling it by publishing a bootloader that has Nokia signature and allows dual-boot - AIUI	20:55
Stskeeps	hiemanshu: go read up about MOSLO	20:55
MohammadAG	anyone got their launchpad account? (someone got approved on fmc)	20:55
DocScrutinizer	moslo right	20:55
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I did	20:55
jonwil	At least this stuff is miles more open than either my previous Motorola motomagx phone OR pretty much any Android handset to date	20:55
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, I know you did :p	20:56
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: timoph and lardman\|gone did too	20:56
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: Mo'Slo Computer Slowdown Software ?	20:56
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Stskeeps	hiemanshu: no, meego os loader or smth	20:56
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DocScrutinizer	well, quoting incredible Mr SpeedEvil Stirling: Aegis is like a nuklear bomber deployed to keep the kids off the lawn	20:57
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* Corsac sighs		20:58
DocScrutinizer	and I'm not quite convince aegis will make it into N9 mass market meego	20:58
Corsac	DocScrutinizer: we already know it won't	20:58
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ruskie	hope it doesn't	20:58
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, wow, that's quite an accurate description	20:58
Corsac	the meego security system is based on smack and ima/evm	20:59
Corsac	hmmh wait, this is crap, it's about N9, sorry :)	20:59
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: right, I was looking at it already :P	20:59
Corsac	but please, people, don't confuse security and drm	20:59
ruskie	drm is broken	21:00
Corsac	instead of whining about aegis or MSSF, whine about who has the keys	21:01
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SpeedEvil	And what sort of alarm system do they have.	21:01
MohammadAG	heh, would've been lulz if that 130MB source had the keys	21:01
DocScrutinizer	Corsac: what do you think? The hw manuf has the rootkey, nothing else makes sense	21:01
macmaN	why exactly is lulz > lol these days	21:02
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DocScrutinizer	Corsac: as lonk as all systems have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey	21:03
DocScrutinizer	s/onk/ong/	21:03
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: Corsac: as long as all systems have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey	21:03
DocScrutinizer	s/systems/devices/	21:03
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: Corsac: as lonk as all devices have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey	21:03
fiferboy	DocScrutinizer: Now do both corrections together :)	21:04
hiemanshu	lol	21:04
DocScrutinizer	you could ship each OMAP with its very unique rootkey, and give user access to the key via some magic passphrase printed on the box	21:04
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DocScrutinizer	fiferboy: she's too retarded to do that	21:04
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Corsac	or have some kind of hardware switch to “take ownership” of the device	21:05
DocScrutinizer	indeed	21:05
DocScrutinizer	really hard to implement though	21:05
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jonwil	btw stskeeps, if you guys DO end up being able to abstract out the pulseaudio blobs into static libraries with glue code, I would like to suggest you abstract the dependency between module-nokia-algorithms.so and libbmeipc. I suggest this for the benefit of people doing the various work to replace BME with code that talks more closely to the hardware.	21:05
DocScrutinizer	as you need a secure path to that	21:05
jonwil	And since that one reference is the only place in the closed-bins that references libbmeipc	21:06
Corsac	yeah, it's easier to move a jumper on a motherboard than on a smartphone	21:06
Stskeeps	wiki.meego.com/ARM/N950	21:06
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: MUHAHAHA good one	21:06
Stskeeps	jonwil: i would like to replace it with libbme	21:06
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: that'S a particularly weird and bizarre one anyway	21:07
jonwil	yes replacing it with libbme would then allow the closed libbmeipc to be dropped completly	21:07
DocScrutinizer	It needs quite a fair bit of phantasy to imagine how audio and bme are related	21:07
jonwil	It is related when the algorithim logic needs to obtain the battery temprature info	21:08
Stskeeps	prolly temperature	21:08
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DocScrutinizer	and I have a cornucopia of scary stories what it's meant for	21:08
Stskeeps	to blow up in your pocket, yours alone	21:08
DocScrutinizer	aaaah, so it's a special sort of alert sound? ;-P	21:09
jaska	lithium cold fusion device!	21:09
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DocScrutinizer	meh: a) reduce power to speakers when device is hot, for speakers' sake. b) reduce for power usage/temperature_of_bat's sake	21:10
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DocScrutinizer	c) make audio play a warning sound when bat low, no matter what	21:11
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jonwil	the function that calls libbmeipc is called voice_temperature_timer_cb	21:11
DocScrutinizer	ok, that's a clue :-)	21:12
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: I hope this line will show up on wiki.maemo.org/user:jonwil/ in a minute :-)	21:12
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DocScrutinizer	obviously voice_temperature_timer_cb gets called on a pace set by timer, to read out temperature of battery	21:14
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jonwil	well that function has a pa_log call for the string Xprot inactive, shutting down.	21:15
DocScrutinizer	now we can do whatever we like with that info in PA closed blob... text-to-speech read it to speakers every minute ;-P	21:15
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jonwil	so its related to Xprot	21:15
jonwil	which AFAIK is the speaker protection	21:15
DocScrutinizer	or switch of ringtone when device is >38°C	21:15
DocScrutinizer	off*	21:15
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: xprot is speaker prot yep	21:16
jonwil	ultimatly it logs a message Ambient temperature updated	21:16
DocScrutinizer	so probably Nokia's research resulted in a ambient_temp vs joule/min curve where speakers fail	21:17
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jonwil	so I am guessing that yes, the speaker protection requires the battery temp	21:17
jonwil	to protect the speakers	21:17
jonwil	and/or the device	21:17
DocScrutinizer	thermal management - the completely unknow black magic in embedded	21:17
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DocScrutinizer	nobody seems have heard of it, nobody in FOSS seems to bother	21:18
DocScrutinizer	and well, usually you get away without it	21:18
DocScrutinizer	just sometimes ... BOOM :-P	21:19
DocScrutinizer	or scortch	21:20
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DocScrutinizer	blue magic smoke escapes	21:20
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DocScrutinizer	usually you expect EE to do a 105% job on avoiding such situations	21:21
DocScrutinizer	but hten you'd also expect EE to do same 105% job on protecting speakers on a hw level	21:22
DocScrutinizer	of course if Nokia would've failed on some of those mandatory properties of their hw, you bet they'd not disclose the sw posterior hotfixes they implement	21:23
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DocScrutinizer	I hope for Nokia's sake this one is just for speaker protection, and not to avoid fatal battery overtemp	21:24
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DocScrutinizer	as on battery overtemp there's nothing less to do than immediate total shutdown of system	21:25
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jonwil	I am sure its only for speaker protection	21:25
DocScrutinizer	on a hw basis	21:25
jonwil	Any battery protection stuff would be in the closed source BME blob most likely	21:25
DocScrutinizer	probably, but I'd hope it's a circuit in GAIA	21:26
DocScrutinizer	however bme should tell dsme or mce or whomever it may concern to throttle cpu clock to 250 max	21:27
DocScrutinizer	before max cell temp is reached	21:27
DocScrutinizer	to avoid hard immediate shutdown	21:28
DocScrutinizer	as there were reports of guys frying their cell by OC and mmenc or what's it called, I gather bme fails on that task	21:29
DocScrutinizer	not surprised	21:29
DocScrutinizer	bme seems to fail on so much	21:29
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/05/tablet_and_ereader_owndership_statistics/	21:30
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DocScrutinizer	and obviously it also fails on complete system shutdown on cell overtemp, as does GAIA - if that report was true	21:32
DocScrutinizer	owndership?	21:33
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ruskie	it's el-reg... do you think they bother really?	21:36
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DocScrutinizer	where to download all the SDKs while they are fresh and uncensored? :-)	21:38
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ruskie	for?	21:38
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DocScrutinizer	I guess I've seen a link on developer.meego.com?	21:38
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DocScrutinizer	ruskie: ALL! I want them ALL ;-D	21:39
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DocScrutinizer	Qt_SDK_Lin32_offline_v1_1_2_en.run 1.1GB downloading...	21:43
DocScrutinizer	anything else recommended?	21:43
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DocScrutinizer	ETA 12..20h ;-P	21:44
nucce2	Hi, I having trouble running sudo gainroot. I got rootsh installed, it may be because of the reason that I got multiboot and booting on nr 2 that is power-kernel	21:45
DocScrutinizer	I'm afraid I'll never dl that stuff, unless I can resume	21:45
nucce2	sudo gainroot = root is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.	21:46
DocScrutinizer	nucce2: unrelated	21:46
nucce2	DocScrutinizer, too?	21:46
DocScrutinizer	nope	21:46
DocScrutinizer	what's your current user? ( id )	21:46
nucce2	whoami = root	21:46
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DocScrutinizer	:-P	21:46
nucce2	well I see the irony but I cant do anything.	21:47
DocScrutinizer	root can't tun sudo gainroot	21:47
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DocScrutinizer	run*	21:47
nucce2	hmm	21:47
DocScrutinizer	and honestly it seems a bit pointless, no? ;-)	21:48
nucce2	Ok, that may be true.. ;)	21:48
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nucce2	Yea, I cant disagree with you there.. bah, then its the problem that kernel-config command doesnt work	21:48
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DocScrutinizer	try >> su - user	21:49
DocScrutinizer	then try again whatever it was that failed for you	21:49
nucce2	ok	21:49
nucce2	I cant even find the kernel-config command	21:50
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DocScrutinizer	might indicate it's one of the poorly configured apps that don't have a symlink from /usr/bin/foo to /opt/foopkg/bin/foo	21:54
DocScrutinizer	you can tell from .desktop file exec line having a full pathname to /opt///*	21:54
DocScrutinizer	some funny people even claimed that'd be the "right way"	21:55
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DocScrutinizer	I got a different notion on that	21:55
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khertan	launchpad account reviewed ... can connect to launchpad now :)	21:57
khertan	still no device	21:58
khertan	;)	21:58
khertan	but in progress	21:58
nucce2	found what the problem was	21:58
nucce2	thanks DocScrutinizer anyway.. ;(	21:59
nucce2	;)	21:59
khertan	Strange: Qemu button was enabled, but target does not match.	22:00
khertan	<<< someone have idea what this mean ? QtCreator QEmu didn't launch	22:00
hiemanshu	khertan: did you get an email?	22:00
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: one more ^	22:00
DocScrutinizer	nucce2: what was it?	22:01
khertan	hiemanshu, no email	22:01
khertan	hiemanshu, just connect to see :)	22:02
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: + 2 more from the forum	22:02
khertan	hiemanshu, logout and login was require	22:02
hiemanshu	khertan: awesome, we just have to wait	22:02
hiemanshu	yup	22:02
khertan	hiemanshu, yep	22:02
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so a lot more in the same boat as ours :)	22:02
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, nothing here :p	22:03
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: try logging out and back in	22:03
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MohammadAG	doesn't matter, same	22:04
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: you are in the second batch, you'll have to wait till everyone else is done :P	22:04
hiemanshu	from the first batch	22:04
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, more like everyone who sent in the ID before me	22:05
MohammadAG	or actually applied	22:05
hiemanshu	yup	22:05
DocScrutinizer	handwaving	22:05
khertan	MohammadAG, indeed doesn't matter ... can't command device for the moment :)	22:06
khertan	w8 and see :)	22:06
DocScrutinizer	the guy at Nokia droped the stack op printouts and collected the papers in random order	22:06
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khertan	DocScrutinizer, hum ... this explain why it slow for just validating 250 account ... print all email	22:07
khertan	rewrite number	22:07
DocScrutinizer	it's a HUGE stack of printouts ;-P	22:07
khertan	made 3 copy for administration	22:07
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khertan	enter manually the id in an email for other guys	22:07
khertan	other guys print the email and give them to a poor new guy which enter id manually in the system	22:08
DocScrutinizer	khertan: we know some guys are not as swift and familiar on scripting as others ;-D	22:08
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: dont copy my conclusion :P	22:08
khertan	:)	22:09
khertan	now i just hope it ll not be delivered by tnt	22:09
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khertan	last tnt delivery take 5 months	22:09
DocScrutinizer	hell, if I had to script this with VBA and outlook, I'd probably be faster the manual way anyway X-P	22:10
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DocScrutinizer	so better hope for manual processes over there at Nokia ;-)	22:11
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: all you need is some xdotool magic	22:11
MohammadAG	I'm wondering if I should ask someone to send it to me from IL or just wait for it	22:12
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* DocScrutinizer ponders, scratches head, mumbles xdotool and wonders some more, shudders and turns away		22:13
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: for now nobody got a 'regular' device yet. Once they get shipped, it will maybe take some days til it's your turn. Then some more days for shipping	22:14
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ponder!	22:14
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MohammadAG	I'll do the former then	22:15
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: this will be your F5 holiday in your memory	22:15
MohammadAG	I don't do F5s	22:15
MohammadAG	hiemanshu does push notifications for me :P	22:16
DocScrutinizer	hehe	22:16
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: hah	22:16
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: dont like xdotool?	22:16
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: honestly - enjoy your holiday, worry about N950 later	22:17
DocScrutinizer	xdoWHAT?	22:17
DocScrutinizer	~dict xdotool	22:17
infobot	could not find definition for xdotool	22:17
DocScrutinizer	same here	22:17
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	22:17
infobot	aw, gee, DocScrutinizer	22:17
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: you can program to do kb and mouse input events at specifc positions on the screen	22:18
hiemanshu	+it	22:18
DocScrutinizer	aaah, I faintly remember that stuff from my win95 times	22:18
DocScrutinizer	never seemed to work flawlessly and a general botch	22:19
DocScrutinizer	yeah, probably that's how such things are done in windows world	22:20
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DocScrutinizer	last real memories abut redmonf stuff is a royal pita with making machine actually shut off on windows shutdown for windowsNT back in 2000 when I did XMLMaker	22:23
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DocScrutinizer	(XMLMaker = excel plugin http://www.textropur.de/sub/gsdc/GSDC_XMLMaker.htm)	22:25
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DocScrutinizer	I think that's been enough of windows for the rest of my life	22:28
DocScrutinizer	esp enough of VB	22:29
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DocScrutinizer	even back then I tried to pport XMLMaker to OpenOffice ;-P	22:30
DocScrutinizer	major fail XD	22:31
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: http://www.semicomplete.com/projects/xdotool/	22:32
hiemanshu	its a linux thing :P	22:32
DocScrutinizer	oooh	22:33
DocScrutinizer	interesting. Thanks :-)	22:33
hiemanshu	I use it batch process my stuff on gimp :P	22:34
hiemanshu	+to	22:34
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ruskie	http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/AMD-Hondo/?kc=rss	22:36
ico2	due to (I think) accidentally overwriting all the kernel modules, my n900 doesn't boot (endlessly reboots). It's basically impossible for me to download a 150meg firmware image due to my internet connection. I can extract the kernel modules from the image on a remote server and download them seperately easily enough, any thoughts on how I can get the device going enough to copy the modules somehow? or am I just going to have to wait a week for the firmware i	22:37
ico2	mage to download?	22:37
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/05/anti_powerpoint_party/	22:37
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mtnman	hello everybody	22:43
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ShadowJK	ico2, pretty much	22:43
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ico2	hmmmm	22:45
NIN101	hmm, it might be possible for him to use a rescue initrd and copy the modules back, or?	22:45
mtnman	is there a "deborphan" package available for maemo5? i've done some searching and haven't found anything yet. closest i could find was the debian package for armel arch. is that suitable to use with maemo5?	22:45
MohammadAG	anyone got the link to add ssh keys to gitorious?	22:45
ico2	NIN101, yes, that's the hope	22:45
MohammadAG	I can't access it since git f'd up my account and my dashboard returns 500	22:46
ico2	NIN101, if I use flasher to load the standard kernel and an initramfs consisting of the modules, busybox and libc, I should be able to get something working perhaps?	22:46
frals	MohammadAG: https://gitorious.org/~USERNAME/keys	22:47
ico2	although that does leave the problem of how to control the device. unless the kernel supports usb gadget serial port	22:47
MohammadAG	thanks frals	22:47
NIN101	ico2: probably	22:47
ico2	I guess I can do that with init scripts, but it'll be a bit tricky to do blind	22:48
NIN101	you basically get a shell	22:48
NIN101	and then it _should_ be possible to mount the rootfs of maemo and copy the modules.	22:48
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ico2	NIN101, is there any good way to activate a shell? or usb serial gadget or fbcon or something	22:49
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NIN101	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd	22:49
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ico2	NIN101, that should do the trick :) thanks :)	22:51
mtnman	!infobot	22:52
NIN101	yw	22:52
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mtnman	is there a "deborphan" or "cruft" package available for mameo5? i have searched and not found anything yet. would a package from debian's archive for armel arch be suitable?	22:56
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mtnman	don't all jump at once to answer my question!	22:59
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KMFDM	mtnman, debian's armel package might be suitable check the dependency version numbers against those in the maemo repos	23:02
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mtnman	KFDM: thanks. would it require a recompile or would the binary be ok?	23:02
KMFDM	mtnman, i THINK but don't quote me on this that it will just work if the dependencies match up	23:03
mtnman	KMFDM: cool, thanks!	23:04
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piggz	does the n9/950 support activesync/mfe?	23:10
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mtnman	KFDM: lenny's deborphan depends on libc >=2.7-1 but maemo5 has 2.5.2-1eglibc27+0m5	23:12
mtnman	oops...KDFDM ^^	23:12
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Atarii	anyone here used Dbuscron?	23:17
DocScrutinizer	ico2: NIN101: afail the meego rescue_initrd is pretty much uuseless as it comes without proper kbd driver, without ubifs, without ntfs for maemo rootfs, pretty much without anything you need to do anything reasonable	23:17
NIN101	hmm	23:18
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DocScrutinizer	so while it's a nice tool in theory, in practice however I've not heard of anybody accomplishing anything with it	23:20
DocScrutinizer	last user here finished recovering from dbus config edit just yesterday, by installing a full meego to eMMC, as he didn't get the job done with initrd	23:21
NIN101	yes but he can not download meego because it would take a week or so as he said, therefor I suggested he should use the rescue initrd. I know it was fckd some time ago (no keyboard map etc.), but iirc I recently read that it kinda got added finally. But, just checked it now, nope :/	23:24
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DocScrutinizer	well, that has to be realy recently then, as jonwil failed on rescue-initrd last wee	23:25
DocScrutinizer	week	23:25
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ShadowJK	"ntfs for maemo rootfs" <- lol?	23:25
DocScrutinizer	whatever	23:25
NIN101	DocScrutinizer yes, just a few days ago	23:25
Stskeeps	instead of bitching, send fucking patches	23:26
Stskeeps	:P	23:26
DocScrutinizer	who's bitching, except you?	23:26
DocScrutinizer	I'm stating facts	23:26
Stskeeps	you	23:26
javispedro	c'mon gentlemen	23:26
DocScrutinizer	while you love to bitch on me, it seems	23:27
* javispedro notes his cloak has finally been downgraded to "contributor"		23:28
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javispedro	... ah, well, it had to happen	23:29
GeneralAntilles	OK, meme makers.	23:29
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy and I have had an excellent idea.	23:29
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* javispedro thinks Stskeeps is a bit sensitive to criticism		23:29
GeneralAntilles	A demotivated poster for the N950	23:29
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, cool story bro	23:29
MohammadAG	good enough meme? :P	23:30
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, and then I found five dollars.	23:30
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: "n950: you are not going to have it"?	23:30
GeneralAntilles	For those of you who've seen Arrested Development.	23:30
GeneralAntilles	and are F5ing the Nokia Dev page.	23:30
MohammadAG	gimme gimme gimme!	23:30
GeneralAntilles	You see where it says "No programs."	23:30
GeneralAntilles	That reminds me immensely of the "No touching!" thing from Arrested Development.	23:30
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, how about a tshirt: "If you have a N950 and show it, I'll mug you"	23:31
GeneralAntilles	So, I need a screencap of one of the prison guards slapping the nightstick down on the table.	23:31
GeneralAntilles	http://www.stripedwall.com/gallery.php?dir=television/ArrDev	23:32
GeneralAntilles	Has the caps	23:32
GeneralAntilles	But	23:32
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javispedro	stupid amazon, ship! ship! ship!	23:34
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* javispedro cannot really believe I am pressing F5 more on the amazon page than the ddp page..		23:34
MoonTiger	javispedro, what did you order from amazon?	23:35
javispedro	mostly books =)	23:35
MoonTiger	ahhhh	23:35
MoonTiger	do you have a n950 on its way too?	23:36
javispedro	no launchpad account	23:36
MohammadAG	yet	23:36
MohammadAG	don't forget the "yet"	23:37
MoonTiger	hmmmmmm	23:37
MoonTiger	so i am curious about the n950 / n9 thing	23:37
javispedro	MohammadAG: optimistic, eh?	23:37
MoonTiger	assuming they have more n950s as is believed when do you think they will let ppl get them?	23:37
MohammadAG	javispedro, always am	23:38
MohammadAG	ignore the time I wasn't on the list :P	23:38
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, ha, me too.	23:38
GeneralAntilles	Contributors FTW!	23:38
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javispedro	at least I can now go around the webos channels without feeling like an enemy spy ;)	23:40
javispedro	j/k	23:40
MySpaez	you have a palm javis?	23:40
MoonTiger	or is the n9 going to be a dev-able device too?	23:40
MySpaez	How is it?	23:40
deimos	I just go an email with "Product Loan Agreement" to send back signed :)	23:40
MySpaez	Of course mooniger	23:40
MoonTiger	hmmmmm ok	23:40
MoonTiger	so not getting a n950 isn't the end of the world then so to speak	23:41
DocScrutinizer	incredible, if I'd consider sending patches to every property $random somebody thinks $random software has and I know it doesn't... OhMy	23:41
javispedro	MySpaez: it's the most similar to maemo in hackability imho, but a step behind.	23:41
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MoonTiger	just really wish there was an n9 with slide out landscape keyboard sigh	23:42
DocScrutinizer	"send fucking patches" pfff, I'm not even sure if that's a bug, a flaw, or a feature of rescue-initrd	23:42
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ShadowJK	meego doesn't use the nand for anything, so missing nand support isn't surprising	23:43
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you know the answer: noone that cared enough put work on it.	23:43
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ShadowJK	It's so easy to put the uSD in your PC and fix whatever you broke :-)	23:43
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MohammadAG	javispedro, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wPP045pM	23:44
DocScrutinizer	anyway stskeeps isn't going to motivate anybody with this way to jump in to a consulting convo	23:45
javispedro	MohammadAG: I think I know many of those by now :)	23:45
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: have to agree there.	23:45
MohammadAG	javispedro, not all of them though :P	23:45
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javispedro	fscking Meego netbook installer that overwrites bootloders, worse than windows.	23:47
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DocScrutinizer	whatever...	23:47
DocScrutinizer	ico2: you'll probably have to download the COMBINED image	23:47
DocScrutinizer	and flash that	23:48
* javispedro feels dejàvú		23:48
MohammadAG	what's ico2's problem?	23:48
DocScrutinizer	deleted *.ko	23:48
* MohammadAG adds to javispedro's dejàvú		23:48
MohammadAG	which kernel?	23:48
ico2	DocScrutinizer, yeah :( was hoping to avoid spending days downloading the file	23:48
DocScrutinizer	stock?	23:48
ico2	DocScrutinizer, yep	23:48
MohammadAG	and you never had power kernel installed?	23:49
DocScrutinizer	hehehehe	23:49
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you're brilliant	23:49
ico2	MohammadAG, nope	23:49
MohammadAG	:/	23:49
DocScrutinizer	cyal8r	23:49
MohammadAG	ico2, prefer downloading 150ish MBs or 400MBs without losing anything?	23:50
ico2	would prefer not to lose anything, if possible	23:50
MohammadAG	got a microSD? if so what size?	23:51
ico2	nope, don't have one	23:52
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ico2	I have a backup from a month or two ago, so it wouldn't be a tragedy if I lost the data. not ideal. What am I looking at losing if I flash the standard firmware image?	23:53
MohammadAG	apps and modifications on rootfs	23:54
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MohammadAG	the rest should stay	23:54
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ico2	damn net died, back now	23:55
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DocScrutinizer	basically nothing, just the restore will download all the apps again you had installed, so until that's accomplished as well, you'll have none of the apps that were installed before	23:55
ico2	I have a backup from a month or two ago, so it wouldn't be a tragedy if I lost the data. not ideal. What am I looking at losing if I flash the standard firmware image?	23:55
MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> apps and modifications on rootfs	23:55
MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> the rest should stay	23:55
ico2	ah	23:55
ico2	that's fine then	23:55
ico2	the download will take forever, but other than that it's ok	23:55
ico2	I'll probably just do that then	23:56
DocScrutinizer	good luck and good bandwidth	23:56
GeneralAntilles	http://thousandsparrows.com/n950.jpg	23:56
ico2	thanks	23:56
ico2	dialup :(	23:56
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ico2	ironically, I was trying to fix mobilehotspot to make use of the phone's net when I broke it, lol	23:57
ico2	anyway, I'll stop complaining and get to downloading that file	23:57
ico2	thanks for all the help and advice guys :)	23:58
DocScrutinizer	ooh, so after you got the COMBINED image, your other apps get fast access to the internet then - good	23:58
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DocScrutinizer	s/your/your download of/	23:58
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: ooh, so after you got the COMBINED image, your download of other apps get fast access to the internet then - good	23:58
DocScrutinizer	ico2: yw	23:59
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ico2	yep :) (assuming I can manage to position the phone in the one corner of the house that gets a 3g signal for long enough ;))	23:59

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