IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-07-04

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MohammadAG<GAN900> Google+: Facebook for people you know online00:16
MohammadAGnaw shit I thought that was twitter00:16
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alteregoLooks like my exo is dying00:23
alteregoInteresting ...00:23
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MohammadAGideas for the next conference :P01:37
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javispedroso that you can see how box2d is actually not representative of real world physics ;)02:04
javispedrothat was in barcelona??02:05
* javispedro does not even recognize the place02:05
javispedroand what the hell is t-mobile doing here?02:05
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javispedrowtf, now I realize I can increase the ideapad's c-ts sensitivity.02:24
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DocScrutinizerI wonder if in harmattan there's a better camera functionality and API, to use all the camera functions (or an arbitrary subset) in own apps like barcode-reader or whatever, and also to build additional functionality into default camera app as a plugin rather than reinventing the whole app just to add dunno blink detection for example, or smile-detection, or autoshoot when camera is really horizontal02:50
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ieatlintDocScrutinizer: some of that is implemented in qtmobility i believe03:03
ieatlintbut it gets more complicated if you just want an app that can take a picture and then use it (eg, for a social network app where you append a picture to your post)03:04
DocScrutinizerprobably should, natural place where the API aka widget stuff should live. What however about the plugin extensions for the full camera app gui?03:05
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ieatlintthe qtmobility support doesn't provide you with a gui configuration interface like the default camera app does03:05
ieatlintyeah, i know in symbian you have to do a crazy ghetto thing where you launch the camera app with certain switches to save the picture to a temp file, and then when it returns you load the temp file03:06
DocScrutinizere.g. we weren't able to even implement a friggin simple timer shot into fremantle's stock camera03:06
ieatlintwouldn't surprise me if a similar thing had to be done for harmattan03:06
ieatlintyeah, you could do that with qtmobility -- but there wouldn't be a gui to configure the camera settings (zoom, "scene mode", flash, iso, exposure) unless you implemented it yourself -- there are api calls for these settings, as i recall, but the camera widget doesn't include a gui for it03:07
ieatlintso for something like a barcode reader, it's no problem03:08
DocScrutinizernah, the widget is incomplete03:08
ieatlintbut if you want the user to take a real photo and then use it in your app, you're going to have to do something ugly03:08
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ieatlinti love 4th of july weekend, i get to play the "gunshots or illegal fireworks?" game03:11
DocScrutinizeractually the widget in QtM should be so comprehensive the the whole camera app binary is just a call to that widget, with prior setup of used/enabled properties, like callback for photo_taken, set gui_touchfocus_used=1, etc03:11
ieatlint"should" ;)03:11
DocScrutinizerMUST :-)03:12
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.03:12
ieatlintwell, qtmobility's api supposedly supports all features found in the n9/50 camera app (from what i've seen in videos)03:13
ieatlintit's very possible they implemented the app in qtm03:14
DocScrutinizerin N9(50) the camera has such an abundance of extremely cute and complex functionality, you can't reimplement all this in every app that needs to "take pictures"03:14
ieatlintbut i'd have to review the harmattan apis better to see if they somehow provide a real camera widget that doesn't force you to reinvent the wheel03:14
ieatlintplus, consistancy of UI would never be fully replicated03:14
ieatlintand that would be a MAJOR issue03:15
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SpeedEvilDepends how it's done03:15
SpeedEvilFor example - face recognition may be in a DSP blob03:16
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DocScrutinizerhow what's done?03:16
SpeedEvilAnd that sort of thing.03:16
DocScrutinizerso how would you re-use it in your own app? if widget doesn't support it03:16
ieatlintyeah, but it's still something they could provide access to via a harmattan specific widget03:17
SpeedEvilBeing able to swap the face recogniser for a streetsign recogniser, or ...03:17
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ieatlintwhich wouldn't make code portable though..03:17
DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter if it's portable, as the camera isn't either03:17
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DocScrutinizerI see we're all on same page though03:18
ieatlintyeah, but it's something they could've tried to put into qtmobility03:18
ieatlintlooking over the harmattan widgets now, not seeing any additional camera stuff03:19
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DocScrutinizera complex camera widget opject, with lots of parameters that configure each possible aspect of the GUI, and a callback to plug in handlers for each and every possible event or sub-object03:19
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: a complex camera widget object, with lots of parameters that configure each possible aspect of the GUI, and a callback to plug in handlers for each and every possible event or sub-object03:20
ieatlintwhat qtm has for cameras is correct03:20
ieatlintbut there should also be something like QCameraSimple that just uses a prebuilt widget with the main camera app's UI03:20
ieatlintand it should just have a signal for when a picture is taken and so forth03:20
ieatlintCameraInterface class03:21
ieatlintthat's it03:22
javispedroit's actually for launching the app03:22
user0DocScrutinizer : worth installing the chromium port?03:22
javispedrosee swipe guides for "app interlaunching" or whatever is called03:22
ieatlintyeah, but it provides signals for when pictures are taken03:22
user0or is it buggy as hell?03:22
ieatlintvoid captureCompleted (const QString &mode, const QString &fileName)03:22
DocScrutinizerieatlint: that URL gives me a rather nonsensy page03:23
DocScrutinizerroot of api docs03:23
ieatlintbah, ok03:23
ieatlintlook at "Application Framework" and "maemo-meegotouch-interfaces"03:24
ieatlintunder the class lists you'll find CameraInterface03:24
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DocScrutinizerrelated to my yesterday's rant about datepicker widget: there should be a method in CalendarInterface Class called tDate CalendarDatePicker() that opens calendar (with all appointments, birthdays, whatnot) in week or month view (selectable by call parameter), and instead of creating a new appointment by clicking on a date, the user just returns that very date he picked to the caller of this method03:34
DocScrutinizerDEFINITELY smater than any friggin slotmachine ;-)03:35
DocScrutinizersmarter even03:35
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: found it, thanks. Disappointing :-/03:37
ieatlintmeh... it's not ideal, but it's an actual method03:38
ieatlintbetter than others i've had to use03:38
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DocScrutinizerseems you couldn't even trigger an actual capture03:38
DocScrutinizerfor e.g. starting up with video capture already running03:39
ieatlintyou can with the qtmobility api03:39
ieatlintbut then you don't have the UI for the user03:39
DocScrutinizeror doing a timer shot... still impossible to implement if it's missing in stock app03:40
ieatlintactually the mode thing is unclear03:40
ieatlintit may be that one of the modes is that... it doesn't say03:41
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DocScrutinizerand Qt had a nice method with signals and slots to add such things like "shoot now"03:41
javispedroDocScrutinizer: btw, the qml datepicker that intel made for the tablet ux... is a calendar widget.03:43
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if Qt is actually using dbus for their signals/slots concept. Or if that's again a reinventing-the-wheel thing03:43
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: \o/03:43
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I think you're overstimating what signals/slots is03:43
javispedroDocScrutinizer: it does not IPC at all, usually (but qdbus does map signals/slots to dbus ipc calls)03:43
DocScrutinizerI think I'm simplifying what dbus is ;-)03:43
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (calendar) still my idea as of above is brilliant ;-)03:44
DocScrutinizerthere's no better calendar based datepicker than THE calendar03:45
javispedroit might confuse03:45
javispedroI still think a calendar widget is best, maybe with that color dots thing to simbolize existing calendar appointments if you find that useful03:45
DocScrutinizerdepends - sure you need a hint in calendar that it's in picker mode, not in full featured app mode03:45
DocScrutinizerand probably you should disable switching to ToDo list when in picker mode03:46
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DocScrutinizerand swiping calendar away should return NULL to the method call rather than put the picker into the task switcher ;-D03:47
* javispedro ponders wheter to return motion + buttondown or buttondown + motion on finger down03:48
DocScrutinizerclearly first03:48
javispedrook, agreed.03:49
javispedroand with this I call it a day03:49
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DocScrutinizerlol, I just took the padlock lower-right corner of FF for a full integral helmet - time for afk ;-P03:56
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DocScrutinizerthought "erhm, helmet == security. Strange but reasonable"03:58
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infobotTransaction-based software configuration management system. URL:, or a language agnostic scriptable window manager URL:  http://aegis.thegraveyard.org04:08
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DocScrutinizermeh, all 40404:09
DocScrutinizer~aegis-old is Transaction-based software configuration management system. URL:, or a language agnostic scriptable window manager URL:  http://aegis.thegraveyard.org04:10
infobotDocScrutinizer: okay04:10
DocScrutinizer~forget aegis04:10
infoboti forgot aegis, DocScrutinizer04:10
DocScrutinizer~aegis is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer04:10
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DocScrutinizer~aegis is also "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment."04:19
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer04:19
infobot[aegis], or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment."04:20
DocScrutinizer~aegis is also
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer04:24
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jonwilI think I have finally figured out the best answer to reverse engineer MCE. What I will do is to take the earliest revision of the MeeGo git MCE tree and compile that as-is with the Fremantle X86 SDK. Then by comparing those binaries with the Fremantle MCE binaries I can identify just what has changed and hopefully come up with some usable source code that somehow matches05:07
jonwilmatches Fremantle MCE05:07
SpeedEvilhmm - interestin05:09
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: which assumes the mce X86 binary that ships with SB (if any) isn't a adapted version that's meant to run on desktop PC and has nothing in common with the ARMEL version that's for the N90005:12
jonwilanalysis so far shows it isnt that different05:12
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jonwilI do note that the Harmattan MCE x86 binaries from scratchbox and the Harmattan ARMEL binaries dont seem to differ, nor does the source code I have contain anything that checks the CPU type05:14
DocScrutinizerI honestly doubt desktop qemu X86 mce that comes with fremantle SDK (I still feel puzzled if there's such a thing at all) for sure won't deal with things like kbd backlight and ALS and proxy sensor, as those things don't exist on a PC05:14
DocScrutinizerthat's why I think it's probably more snae to compare the ARMEL binary as shipped with fremantle image to a ARMEL build on fremantle SDK of harmattan mce05:16
DocScrutinizerand I still doubt there's such a thing like a fremantle X86 mce binary at all05:17
DocScrutinizerif there is, then it's probably a dumy05:18
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SpeedEvilIt could be useful with appropriate dummy x86 drivers05:20
SpeedEvilSo you could do dev before you have the hw up05:20
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DocScrutinizeryeah, you probably don't want dsme/upstart fail on starting mce, and maybe you even want dbus msgs to "mce" answered properly, but I doubt it implements whatever flavour of LED patterns actually05:23
DocScrutinizerwell, at lwast locate reveals /scratchbox/users/jr/targets/FREMANTLE_X86/etc/mce/mce.ini05:26
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DocScrutinizerI still have concerns it's definitely not on same codebase as the ARMEL one05:27
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DocScrutinizererr, maybe I got something completely wrong, as noth are identical size:05:29
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 jr users 19031 29. Jul 2010  /scratchbox/users/jr/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/etc/mce/mce.ini05:29
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 jr users 19031 29. Jul 2010  /scratchbox/users/jr/targets/FREMANTLE_X86/etc/mce/mce.ini05:29
DocScrutinizererr sorry05:30
DocScrutinizertime for bed05:30
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DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> ll /scratchbox/users/jr/targets/*/sbin/mce05:33
DocScrutinizer-rwxr-xr-x 1 jr users 80760 29. Jul 2010  /scratchbox/users/jr/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/sbin/mce05:33
DocScrutinizer-rwxr-xr-x 1 jr users 80212 29. Jul 2010  /scratchbox/users/jr/targets/FREMANTLE_X86/sbin/mce05:33
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DocScrutinizer[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > mce --help05:35
DocScrutinizerUsage: mce [OPTION]...05:35
DocScrutinizerqemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped05:35
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DocScrutinizerlol, ok. mce segfaults on both SB and N900 ;-P05:47
DocScrutinizerand version is also absolutely same05:48
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jonwilok, I now have a compiled x86 binary to play with06:00
jonwilalongside the Fremantle SDK version06:00
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jonwilok, lets start with some of the MCE plugins as those are likely to be simple06:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, should work on x8606:13
MohammadAGweird feeling when you're wasted and you close your eyes for a bit06:13
MohammadAGwoke up after 5h with the sun in my face06:13
MohammadAGanyway, time to go on with that, night06:14
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, oh and tip, --debug06:14
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jonwilok, so far so good, filter-brightness-simple.c seems to be identical to Harmattan code with one exception and so far datapipe.c seems to be identical06:28
fredrinDocScrutinizer, you should work06:30
fredrinwhere's Dave?06:31
jonwilyep, no changes to datapipe.c that would break things06:33
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jonwilok, looks like I need to rebuild my MCE compile without logging as the MCE binary I have from Fremantle has no logging06:55
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Termanagood morning06:55
jonwilactually no06:57
jonwilI dont need to06:57
jonwilI can just ignore the logging06:57
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paulyanyone wanna buy a good condition n90007:10
paulyin usa!07:10
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paulyok lol07:12
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paulyanyone wanna buy a good condition n90007:16
hiemanshusure, but I am in india :P07:21
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paulywould u want me to ship it?07:27
paulyhiemanshu: want me to ship ir to you?07:28
hiemanshuwell it depends how much the shipping and the phone would cost07:28
hiemanshupauly: PM?07:28
paulyhiemanshu: 320 usd?07:31
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jonwilso far so good, less changes between Fremantle MCE and Harmattan MCE than I thought08:01
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DocScrutinizerfine, so maybe we can simply replace the fremantle one ?08:20
DocScrutinizerthough I'm puzzled, is harmattan mce FOSS?08:20
DocScrutinizeror do you refer to meegoCE mce?08:20
* DocScrutinizer ownders how much mce would need to adapt to N950 hw, for harmattan08:23
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DocScrutinizermeh, all N950 RDA offline08:32
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dm8tbrmood groaning08:41
* ruskie contemplates building ewebkit and eve for the n90008:41
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robbiethe1stHm, so guys: How do I run a shell on a specific terminal instance?09:47
robbiethe1stSo, I'm connecting via a serial port, and I want to launch an instance of sh connected to /dev/tty009:47
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robbiethe1stor, tty1 anyway09:48
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Choomyou'll have to write a wrapper to act as login and call sh with that as controlling terminal, I guess09:55
alteregorobbiethe1st: /etc/inittab09:56
alteregorun agetty on ttySP09:56
alteregorun agetty on ttyS009:56
robbiethe1stHm, that could do it...09:56
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alteregoThat's how it's normally done :P09:57
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Choomdidn't know there was a getty on my phone :P09:57
ChoomI've never seen its console09:57
robbiethe1stUm, I can give you the command to setup a USB-serial console with it, if you wish09:57
alteregoHurp, there is no getty09:58
robbiethe1styes there is09:58
alteregobusybox is supposed to supply it though09:58
robbiethe1stpart of busybox09:59
robbiethe1stit may not have the symbolic link on stock Maemo, but it works nicely.09:59
ChoomNokia-N900:~# which agetty09:59
robbiethe1stagetty, no. getty09:59
Choomthere is one, yes09:59
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robbiethe1stI got it working! That was the last thing I needed to get a working recovery console on the N90010:04
robbiethe1st(inside backupmenu10:04
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robbiethe1stNow, one more question. getty wants a baud rate. I used 115200, because I know that works on just about everything(aside from 20-year-old machines)... what baud rate should I be using for an internal console emulator?10:08
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alterego115200 is fine10:10
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cityLightsok, I elise today that I can't simply use the cellular info10:17
cityLightsI need to give it weights , as some cellular IDs are not used for a segnificent amount of time10:17
cityLightswhich makes my app of telling me before I reace my bus station - a graph problem10:18
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Sicelopauly.. :/ good condition n900.. /me wonders how it's good condition when usb port came off10:46
robbiethe1steasily; some of them had poor USB traces. Not exactly a wear issue.10:50
robbiethe1stMine, on the other hand, is somewhat beat up, but still has a rock-solid USB port, despite being dropped onto the USB cable several times10:50
Venemorobbiethe1st, yep, mine too10:51
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rm_youafter the USB on my first one falling out, i am constantly paranoid that the tiniest wiggle when i plug it in means it is about to do it AGAIN T_T10:52
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rm_youlooks fairly ok though... T_T10:52
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JaffamacmaN: Nokia Account has been on and off; so I carefully recreated it and it was fine10:58
macmaNrecreated? how such?10:58
JaffamacmaN: Delete & recreate on N95010:58
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macmaNi am not understanding how i can delete the account from n950 when i cannot even add it there11:01
macmaNit *is* the same overall etc nokia sso account right?11:01
macmaNi just did reset password from the phone, so it did find my email address11:02
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MohammadAGmacmaN, yes, Ovi account is Nokia account11:04
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macmaNit just shoots me "service is unavailable" and thats that11:07
cityLightsVenemo: ddi you get an email?11:08
VenemocityLights, only the first ACCEPTED e-mail from Quim, nothing else besides that.11:08
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macmaN11:23     quimgil 96 Community application discovery client for Meego 1.2 Harmattan released as open source project
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macmaNwow that password reset email is taking its sweet time to get here11:30
macmaNso the LED status indicator on N950 seems to only work for charging11:32
macmaNno way to know about missed messages or calls on standby11:33
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cityLightsI ran some simple cellular tracking today11:53
cityLightsand I found that it acts kind of weird11:53
cityLightssometimes when the cellid changes , it jumps to a number then returns , and stays at a nother id11:54
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lardmancityLights: that is a bit strange11:55
lardmanbut perhaps it's switching between 3 cells?11:55
lardmananyone got a Launchpad confirmation email yet?11:55
TermanaAnyone know the best way to use pulseaudio in scratchbox?11:58
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MohammadAGyou can't iirc12:05
MohammadAGlardman, nope12:05
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psycho_oreosapart from all these people wanting to grab flash player 10 and tweak flash player app, has there been any other leaks with the :)12:09
psycho_oreoslooks like there isn't :) I've found a site where the guy leaked 10.1. I've repacked it into a nice deb file and am going to make a new thread12:12
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DocScrutinizerfredrin: please elaborate12:19
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DocScrutinizermacmaN: we'll need to port fremantle mce to harmattan for that12:20
DocScrutinizermacmaN: I gather harmattan on N950 is basically targeted at N912:21
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, your thread will be taken down12:22
MohammadAGit's illegal to post it on tmo12:22
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, hmm d*mn! thanks :/12:22
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lardmanMohammadAG: thanks, sorry for the slow reply, was booking a van12:24
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robbiethe1stpsycho_oreos: Post it on some shady site with a unieuq title string. wait for google to find it, then post that title string.12:28
robbiethe1st(on tmo12:28
psycho_oreosrobbiethe1st, I was thinking something similar along the lines of that :) the thing is this bloke leaked flash 10.1 for N900, all I did was encase it in a nice looking deb :) I guess somethings somewhat make you wonder like fmtxd and what not for instance ;)12:30
robbiethe1stHey, putting it in a .deb is seriously important. It's just a lot harder to follow arcane commands than to click on a .deb12:31
fluxit is indeed great that this kind of useful piece of code exists, but apparently the customers should have none of it.12:31
robbiethe1stalso makes removal a *lot* easier12:31
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robbiethe1stNow, erm, isn't this the old Flash version that crashes about half the time, though>12:31
robbiethe1stThere was one 10. varient which was indeed a developer version; it was seriously unstable and not done quite12:32
psycho_oreosin theory yes, but it can also depend on how its made :) an ugly deb file like I made just now includes both current and leaked in case people complain about leaked copy is woeful, etc, etc, etc12:32
psycho_oreosyeah it was available through that ti website iirc. It was on that huge tmo thread12:32
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lardmanhmm, where are these emails.....12:33
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: and especially not hw-accelerated afaik12:34
robbiethe1stYea, sadly.12:34
jonwilI actually think I can take the MeeGo/Harmattan mce source code and the Fremantle binaries and come up with code to match Fremantle12:34
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robbiethe1stOur 9.x isn't accelerated either, though, is it?12:34
psycho_oreosI didn't think it would be, I could be mistaken12:34
DocScrutinizerjonwil: where's the harmattan mce sourcecode?12:34
psycho_oreosI thought it was just one epic binary blob that works whenever it feels like12:35
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: I gather it is12:35
jonwilI am using the oldest revision of this tree
DocScrutinizerthat's meant for meegoCE, not harmattan -aiui12:36
robbiethe1stHm... I'd be interested in the N9/N950 version... Might be back-portable12:36
robbiethe1stsame with graphics drivers and such...12:36
jonwilI was also using the code there as a reference12:36
jonwilso both the MeeGo mce and the Harmattan mce12:36
Venemojonwil, your efforts would be better spent on enhancing MeeGo CE12:36
jonwilI dont want MeeGo CE, I want maemo12:37
Venemowhat for?12:37
jonwilplus, I find reverse engineering fun :)12:37
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Venemowill you also backport hardfp and the newer graphics driver from meego?12:37
DocScrutinizerthis code would be for a device that's [2011-07-04 10:32:48] <macmaN> so the LED status indicator on N950 seems to only work for charging12:37
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I fully agree with jonwil12:38
VenemoDocScrutinizer, why is that?12:38
robbiethe1stI predict that, unless the N950 becomes available to more than a select few devs, the N900 will stay "current" for at least another year; N9 just isn't comparable.12:38
DocScrutinizerVenemo: if we follow this paradigm consequently, we can nuke cssu this second12:39
lardmanJaffa: you handy for a chat about Proximus sometime today?12:39
DocScrutinizerVenemo: same reason I got maemo and not meegoCE on my N90012:39
jonwilFact is, there are people out there interested in making Fremantle better and as long as people care, I will do what I can to support them12:39
Venemosure, I do want to keep&use my N900 for a long time. that is why it would be nice to have a working and usable MeeGo CE on N90012:39
* DocScrutinizer hands jonwil the medal "Hero of fremantle"12:40
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gomiamrobbiethe1st: at least another year... yes, they will at most provide an official update next year and then drop it (SOP)12:40
robbiethe1stI don't even expect that... Who needs Nokia anyway?12:41
Jaffalardman: Yeah, this afternoon would be good12:41
lardmanJaffa: cool, will ping you then12:41
robbiethe1stThanks to the work the community's put in, it's still easily viable, and until there's something to replace it...12:41
lardmantoo busy playing with the new toy this morning? ;)12:41
Venemowhat? you install meego ce, install cordia on it, and you have a working (and better) fremantle clone12:43
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: Maybe we really should offer a USB fixing service for N90012:44
DocScrutinizerVenemo: HAH12:46
VenemoDocScrutinizer, wut?12:46
[DarkGUNMAN]MeeGo CE with Cordia is getting there.. taking a guess a lot of CSSU improvements can be ported to it as well?12:46
VenemoI agree that MeeGo CE is not there yet, but it has been improving rapidly12:46
JaffaYay, offline map loading on Harmattan works :-)12:47
[DarkGUNMAN]once hildon-home and hildon-status-menu are working proper, then we can see if the likes of qbw can work12:47
VenemoJaffa, great!12:47
DocScrutinizerif THAT would be completely true, then *WTF* isn't forum exploding with threads titled "microB much faster on meegoCE", "battery life on meegoCE 2 times that of fremantle despite two times the IM" etc12:48
VenemoDocScrutinizer, as I said, it's not quite there yet. emphasis on YET12:48
[DarkGUNMAN]microb needs to be ported/pakaged for meego ce12:48
DocScrutinizerI don't give a flying F* on promises for the future, we've seen too many of them getting broken12:49
DocScrutinizerand microB never will run on meegoCE as it's one of the many closed blobs of fremantle that are the main reason I hate and I use it12:50
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DocScrutinizerso yes, maybe some day we can all switch to meegoCE seamlessly - if and only if jonwil does a HELL of a job and REs ALL of those blobs12:51
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Venemolook at how MeeGo on N900 was a year ago (basically a bootable terminal) and where it is now (hardware accelerated UX, etc.)12:51
DocScrutinizerI still don't care12:51
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Venemonot asking you to care :)12:52
DocScrutinizera nice PoC, not really much more12:52
RST38hFox News tweets hacked to show Obama death stories12:52
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Parsleefinns are too humble12:53
DocScrutinizerand comparing where meego is after TWELFE months, and comparing that to where it needs to get to, to make me consider trading fremantle in for it, I gather my 2 N900 are broken at that point of time12:53
ParsleeThey did epic work with maemo12:53
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ParsleeIt was not open enough12:57
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psycho_oreosany of you guys have python (and its little deps installed) but not from extras-{devel,testing}? I just need the versions of the python2.512:57
jonwilwhat makes microb better than say fennec or whatever the open source gecko mobile browser is?12:58
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jonwilits still gecko under the hook12:58
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I've seen similar projects, the continue to reach for consumer readiness since 2+ years, and meanwhile the userbase as well as the number of developers are drastically diminishing12:58
psycho_oreosmicrob is a lot lighter to boot compared to fennec12:58
Venemofennec is very slow&laggy12:58
* ruskie wants to see eve on the n90012:59
Venemoruskie, EVE?12:59
psycho_oreosfennec lack those "finger gestures" you can zoom in and out using your fingers12:59
DocScrutinizerjonwil: the integration into the system and GUI, the flash12:59
Hurrianeh... i still wouldnt use meego CE as a daily system13:00
Venemoruskie, ah. I thought you were referring to EVE13:00
robbiethe1st**** YES! I finally got a *working* on-n900 BM terminal!13:00
[DarkGUNMAN]true.. microb always appealled to me sice it can run some desktop firefox plugins13:00
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: :-)))13:00
Parsleewhat is bm terminal robbie?13:00
[DarkGUNMAN]what he said13:00
Hurrianmicrob appeals to me because it is the only browser on n900 that doesnt run like s**t13:00
ruskieVenemo, I need to look into getting some packages built for it etc... will see what I can get but I'm not that good at making deb packages13:01
Hurrianalso, love the task switcher integration13:01
ruskieI'm planing on running it on my eeepc 70113:01
robbiethe1stSo, I managed to get a proper rescue terminal built in; Backupmenu's designed to run in the pre-boot environment, so this means that *most* "brickings" can be fixed on-device now, without any PC needed13:01
ParsleeRobbie what does that allow you to do that osso-xterm does not?13:01
robbiethe1stsome could be solved before with a restore, now they can be fixed.13:01
Hurrianrobbiethe1st : do we have mtd and ubifs utils?13:01
ruskierobbiethe1st, frankly making a custom root fiasco and emmc fiasco images sounds like a better plan13:02
robbiethe1stHurrian: Sort of. If nothing else, you can always mount the rootfs, copy over whatever you need, and run it.13:02
Venemoruskie, to me, EVE is the game EVE Online :)13:02
ruskieVenemo, hehe13:02
DocScrutinizerok, let's do another F5 hitting madness13:02
robbiethe1struskie: erm... I don't get you.13:02
ruskierobbiethe1st, you can make your own fiasco images to reflash once it bricks ;)13:03
robbiethe1stIf you flash the rootfs, you've lost any settings/apps on it; and if you make it custom before you have the problem... well, that's basically the same thing I'm doing13:03
ruskiewith everything you have on the device13:03
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Hurrianruskie, it pains me to keep erasing and writing CMT software13:03
* robbiethe1st points to BackupMenu's backup function. Not quite flashable, but restorable.13:03
ruskieyes except the BM stuff isn't 100% usable sadly13:04
robbiethe1stHurrian: You *can* flash only certain things.13:04
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robbiethe1stwhy not?13:04
Hurrianso does dd-ing to the mtd device13:04
ruskieI had to fix stuff using a bootable sd card with meego13:04
fluxit still does that?13:04
Hurrianso, imo rm -rf ing mtd5 and writing files back would be great13:04
robbiethe1stMine now does it all at the file level.13:05
Hurrianiirc the new backupmenu does that13:05
robbiethe1stusing... rm -rf and tar.13:05
ruskiesince my brekages tend to be beyond BM help usually13:05
robbiethe1struskie: You mean BM won't boot?13:05
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Hurrianoh btw, maemo experts, is it possible to recreate MTD partitions?13:05
alteregoHeh, the Irony of a developer device getting the N Series brand name :)13:05
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robbiethe1stHurrian: Yes, I think so, why?13:06
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Hurrianiirc someone said that if mtd1 is wiped, the device needs a light swap13:06
Stskeepsheh, if you nuke mtd partitions you might be hosed13:06
Parsleerobbiethe1st this should make mwn news13:06
ruskieI have my own / script that does stuff I need generally...13:07
robbiethe1stOh, Stskeeps - That reminds me. Would you please promote bootmenu?13:07
DocScrutinizermeh, lol >>When you connect the cable, the device switches on automatically and the magical flashing sequence starts.<< </quote URL=>13:07
ruskiethough I still need to do some cleaning about it13:07
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Hurrianstskeeps, what code does the ROM in the OMAP do?13:07
Hurrianother than starting the N900 up13:07
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Hurrianif you wipe mtd1, i don't think even the fbus will fix it]13:09
robbiethe1stWe do have cold flashing13:10
robbiethe1sti.e. bypassing *everything* and booting entirely off USB13:10
ruskiehmm a coworker got a samsung galaxy ace... and he couldn't get mass storage working... turns out the device had usb debugging console enabled...13:10
robbiethe1st(well, chainloading anyway)13:10
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: fbus is nonsense13:11
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: fbus is for modem only13:12
DocScrutinizermtd partition restoring is feasible ONLY via coldflash, and I dunno if standard flasher-3.5 with standard COMBINED image will do that13:12
Stskeepsand if you wipe CAL you might be really hosed13:13
DocScrutinizerit's completely unclear if NOLO boots up at all on a wiped CAL13:13
DocScrutinizerfor obvious reasons *nobody* has tried it yet13:14
Hurriandoes anything run if mtd1 is wiped? probably if you fed the OMAP ROM with code13:14
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DocScrutinizerthat's called coldflsah13:15
Hurrianand iirc the omap rom verifies everything fed to it13:15
Hurrianso if nolo is bugged, U R FUKD13:15
DocScrutinizerso you feed it xloader from COMBINED13:15
DocScrutinizerHurrian: NO13:15
DocScrutinizerHurrian: stop spreading FUD13:15
Hurrianno i meant if you wiped MTD1 and nolo failed to start, you cant do anything, as it's closed source, right?13:16
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Hurrianand if i'm getting it right, nolo does more than load kernel and boot it?13:16
DocScrutinizerwhat is closed source? CAL?13:16
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DocScrutinizerit's closed data more or less13:16
Hurrianno, nolo is closed13:16
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DocScrutinizerwhatever, you CAN restore NOLO13:17
DocScrutinizeryou can NOT restore CAL13:17
DocScrutinizeras you don't have a backup of the data there13:17
Hurrianyes, but i meant as in if NOLO had a bug that it doesnt start the system if you wiped CAL13:18
ruskiebasically a what if scenario... aka speculation13:18
Hurrianyou'd be pretty stuck13:18
DocScrutinizer*maybe* coldflashing, on finding CAL destroyed, will replace it with a sane standard CAL dataset, but as mentioned above... you're free to test ;-P13:18
Hurrian...but then, MAC address is stored in CAL13:19
Hurrianand no, not planning on testing, as i cannot find another N900 in any other store in this city13:19
DocScrutinizerfirstboot locale and keymap, whatnot else, RF settings etc pp13:19
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: great :-) Now you'll need to release 1.1 just 1 or 2 weeks after 1.0 - what a pity :-P13:20
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robbiethe1stYea. :P13:21
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robbiethe1stNow, I just need to figure out how to unload the framebuffer module...13:22
[DarkGUNMAN]so does this mean appart from the functionality of backupmenu, there is a busybox terminal there as well?13:22
DocScrutinizer>>n the Windows environment, the USB autodetection and driver installation may cause trouble. Thus you may need to connect, wait for drivers, disconnect the cable, power off, and reconnect for several times.<<  X-D13:23
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: forget it, you'll not boot to maemo from BM console13:23
DocScrutinizernot even mature PC linux does that, when entering init-S state13:24
DocScrutinizerquit emergency console == reboot13:24
robbiethe1st[DarkGUNMAN]: Well, yes. There always *was* one(BM is a busybox script), and you could access one over USB-serial console but nothing you could interact with. Now, I've figured out a way to make a interactive terminal, so now you can actually use it on-device!13:25
robbiethe1stDocScrutinizer: You mean a "continue boot" option?13:25
Hurrian@DocScrutinizer : what the hell? does the N950 still use the hold u while plugged in to enter reflash mode?13:25
DocScrutinizer<robbiethe1st> Now, I just need to figure out how to unload the framebuffer module...13:25
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DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: why?13:25
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robbiethe1stDocScrutinizer: Because any time I get a message on the console after I'm done with my terminal, it screws up any graphics drawn via Text2Screen13:26
robbiethe1stBecause, you know, it's overwriting the buffer...13:26
DocScrutinizerHurrian: obviously not, as N950 is an N9 in disguise13:27
ShadowJKor N9 is N950 with keyboard chopped off13:27
ShadowJKin which case flashing N9 will be interesting13:27
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: evidently not, see on-click-flasher options13:28
DocScrutinizerto handle the kbd-less mess13:28
robbiethe1stOf course, seeing as the N900's flashable without pressing the 'u' key...13:28
Hurrianwhat the f-----13:29
robbiethe1stHurrian: You just have to have the flasher util waiting with the N900 off, the plug in the USB. it'll boot, see the flasher and flash]13:29
Hurriandid anyone at nokia notice that everytime you plug/unplug a usb device on windows, it restarts the usb stack for that port?13:29
Hurrianthe hold u to flash was a great idea13:30
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: I think BM is *loading* FB only for the case when you actually invoke it, i.e. when booting with slide open. BM has no way to boot to fremantle. FB is only loaded when you have to reboot afterwords - so why to unload it?13:30
Hurriannokia should probably do something similar for N9 - hold volume up to reflash13:30
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robbiethe1stWell, perhaps I should say differently: I need fbcon unloaded13:31
DocScrutinizerHurrian: holding U does basically nothing for booting the N900, it still exposes all the same USB devices and your "stack" will still do all the same nonsense, no matter if you hold U or not13:31
alteregoHolding 'u' sticks it in update mode, otherwise it boots up13:32
DocScrutinizerHurrian: holding U only disables USB timeout when NOLO looks for flasher-3.513:32
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DocScrutinizerbut NOLO still looks for flasher-3.5 even when not holding U, just it times out after 1s or sth, maybe after 10ms13:32
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DocScrutinizeralterego: exactly13:33
MohammadAGisn't it the OMAP3 rather than NOLO?13:33
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: check your syslog on PC13:33
MohammadAGsince that's how cold flashing13:33
alteregoMohammadAG: no :P13:34
DocScrutinizeryou'll see ROMboot, NOLO, mass-storage13:34
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alteregoMohammadAG: it's the first two stages of nolo that allow low level flashing13:34
MohammadAGnot home, no PC around me, and even if there was one I don't have a cable13:34
alteregoOtherwise you'd have to use jtag13:34
MohammadAGalterego, nuke /dev/mtd013:34
alteregoNo thanks ..13:34
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MohammadAGcold flashing still works if you do that :p13:34
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: why?13:35
VenemoMohammadAG, "nuke: command not found..."13:35
DocScrutinizeryou can coldflash even without nuking mtd0 ;-P13:35
alteregoMohammadAG: well, you do it thien13:35
alterego~then ..13:35
DocScrutinizerif you feel like13:35
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DocScrutinizerjust make sure flasher-3.5 with coldboot options waits for device showing up - that device will be ROMboot, *always*13:36
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alteregoOh there's some ROM code too?13:36
DocScrutinizerROMboot then loads xloader from flasher-3.5 to RAM, xloader in RAM loads NOLO to RAM from flasher-3.5, NOLO in ram will flash NOLO on mtd013:37
alteregoOh, right13:38
alteregoI didn't know there was actually any _ROM_ in the N90013:38
DocScrutinizeryou can do that any time, no natter if mtd0 is nuked or if you hold down U key13:38
DocScrutinizerit's simply how ROMboot works -ROMboot doesn't check for U key ;-P13:39
DocScrutinizerprobably jacekowski will pop up in a minute and tell me where I've been wrong, but basically I'm right on this one13:40
infobotfrom memory, coldflash is and next ~200 posts, or
DocScrutinizerback to F5 hitting13:41
VenemoF5 hitting?13:41
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* Sicelo just got his N90013:47
lcuk\o/ Sicelo13:47
Sicelonow i'll bug you people...13:47
robbiethe1stInstall a bunch of buggy apps, then complain!13:47
robbiethe1stwhat more could we ask?13:47
Siceloalready... what size is the update to PR1.3?13:48
Siceloi'll have to wget it13:48
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infobotflashing is probably
VenemoSicelo, ^13:50
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Hurriansicelo, rootfs is 195MB13:54
HurrianEMMC is ~256MB13:54
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Sicelothanks :)13:55
Hurrianmy turn to bug you people13:55
Hurrianis it possible to charge the N900 while not in Maemo?13:56
Hurrianlike the Symbian devices13:56
Hurrianbut it looks as if the symbian devices half-boot to symbian though13:56
Stskeepsso does maemo13:56
psycho_oreoswhat do you mean? symbian can't be dualboot13:56
psycho_oreosunder maemo (maemo 5 at least) its called: ACT_DEAD13:57
Hurriantoo bad my time with maemo will be so short13:58
Hurrianas compared to my older nokia devices13:59
psycho_oreosyou selling it?13:59
ruskiebricking it?13:59
Hurriani meant, as in the device falling to hardware failures etc13:59
psycho_oreosbroken USB port?13:59
Hurrianno, mines working fine13:59
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ruskiethen why short?13:59
Hurriani meant, it's my first and probably last maemo/meego device13:59
ruskieI mean do you expect a hardware failure or something?13:59
psycho_oreosit isn't short, its just ongoing maintanence :)14:00
Hurrianruskie, inevitable ;)14:00
Hurrianemmc & SOC failures14:00
MohammadAGalterego, I did14:00
MohammadAG(re <alterego> MohammadAG: well, you do it thien)14:01
alteregoMohammadAG: sure, I didn't know about romboot14:01
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psycho_oreoswtf? emmc and SOC failures? that almost sounds like typical symptoms of oc woe14:01
alteregoMohammadAG: doesn't have anything to do with the OMAP though :P14:01
alteregopsycho_oreos: got who?14:01
MohammadAGalterego, so I wasn't wrong :P14:01
Hurrianpsycho_oreos - hardware fall damages etc14:01
Hurrianknowing the bad QA of N900 assembly14:01
MohammadAGErr, isn't ROMboot on the SoC?14:01
alteregoMohammadAG: well, you were technically wrong, but functionally, no, erasing nolo shouldn't matter.14:02
Hurriani hardly OC over 75014:02
psycho_oreosalterego, Hurrian, but not saying that he did oc it :) just the issues sounds like it14:02
alteregoMohammadAG: no14:02
alteregoMohammadAG: well, it might be if the ROM is in the SoC14:02
psycho_oreosHurrian, ahh heh that'll be inevitable for sure14:02
Hurrianeven then, i only OC when i'm going to crap the processor at 100%14:02
alteregoMohammadAG: but it's a program that runs and isn't a standard OMAP thing, it's a Nokia thing.14:02
* ruskie doesn't OC... simply doesn't make any sense14:02
ruskieI need reliability not insane performance14:02
alteregoruskie: agreed, little gain ..14:03
alteregoAnd so much loss :)14:03
psycho_oreosmuch to lose14:03
MohammadAGalterego, someone mentioned it was standard, I could be wrong though14:03
Hurrianruskie, only causes me occasional 32wd_to's when my voltage is too low, in addition to SR VDD1&2 being on14:03
Hurrianoh, +WSEGL_HWSync14:03
Hurriani deffo wouldn't do 1150-115014:04
psycho_oreoswhen people mention wanting to overclock their N900 I think of this: :)14:04
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Hurrianthat would cause massive SOC damage within months14:04
psycho_oreoseven worse, fried CPU, rendering the phone/NIT useless14:05
Venemowhich one consumes more power? EDGE or Wi-Fi?14:06
HurrianGSM radio14:06
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Sicelobtw is there no other way to get product ID without taking out the battery?14:06
Hurrianit's on the box14:07
MohammadAGProduct ID?14:07
Hurrianalso *#0000#14:07
Hurrianteh imei14:07
MohammadAG*#06# is the IMEI14:07
VenemoHurrian, *#0000# is sw version14:07
trxsettings / about has imei too i believe?14:07
MohammadAGdbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei | grep string | cut -f 2 -d '"'14:08
MohammadAGover ssh14:08
alteregoAnd it's in "Settings->PRoduct Info"14:08
Siceloproduct id, for the firmware download14:08
psycho_oreostrx, yes14:08
Sicelooh is imei14:08
MohammadAGit's not the product ID14:08
psycho_oreosits also available through osso-product-info14:08
MohammadAGsure about that?14:09
MohammadAGI don't recall it being there14:09
psycho_oreoserr imei isn't available through osso-product-info but for other stuff in regards to *#0000# it is14:09
psycho_oreosthat's was what I was meant to say (in other words I hit the enter too quickly ;))14:09
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Hurrianhmm, wonder why nokia asks for imei on tablets-dev while the N950 image is free to download14:10
psycho_oreosN950 is a dev only device, I don't think nokia would care too much about it. Though I think its to verify if you genuinely own N900 I suppose. If you had a look at other NIT devices, the firmware links require you to input wlan mac14:11
robbiethe1stOf course, it works with a fake imei too...14:11
robbiethe1stjust google for an appropriate imei number, change it slightly, ???, profit!14:12
psycho_oreosbetter yet, a somewhat well crafted google query would yield a valid N900 imei from nokia's support site14:12
Venemomeh! I'm so sad. there is an N950 at Nokia HQ which is eagerly awaiting to be sent to me. and yet, they haven't even approved anyone on launchpad yet...14:18
Venemothose little N950s are so lonely without us :(14:18
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mgedminwaiting for a launch window to open, I suppose14:22
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hiemanshuVenemo: exactly, I dont know why they wont just send it over to us :(14:27
X-FadeFinland is closed for summer vacation.14:27
X-FadeIn July everybody is gone.14:27
Hurrianpsycho_oreos , with all the crud nokia's put into maemo, the imei check's pretty redundant ;)14:28
hiemanshuX-Fade: for how long?14:28
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hiemanshuX-Fade: all of july?14:28
psycho_oreosHurrian, or any sort of device ownership in order to obtain firmwares is redundant for that matter ;)14:28
X-FadeYep, most people tend to be off until August.14:28
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Hurrianhmm, before coming into #maemo , i didn't realize that the OneNAND was literally on top of the OMAP3430 SOC, and wasn't just a term in the SVC Manual LV3-4.14:30
SpeedEvilPackage on Package14:31
SpeedEvilonenand + RAM14:31
psycho_oreosthis somewhat also explains why there a deadline for applying n9 devkit through by being a proper Qt app developer is towards end of July. Must be for them to have a stockpile of work to sift through ;)14:31
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* lardman wonders if the summer vacation is the cause of the Launchpad delays14:31
lardmanah I see someone else has thought the same thing14:32
psycho_oreoswho me?14:33
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: me :P14:33
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alteregoThen why would the DDP deadline be set ahead :/14:34
psycho_oreoswas about to say, there's three possible ways one can obtain n9 devkit, the oss is closed so that leaves two other open choices :)14:34
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hiemanshuwell if this was known, there should have been more time for the apps14:34
hiemanshus/apps/applications to be submitted/14:34
infobothiemanshu meant: well if this was known, there should have been more time for the applications to be submitted14:34
psycho_oreoslike I said, probably for the pile of paperwork left for them when they come back ;)14:34
X-FadeJust saying that there are less people available during vacation, might explain any delays.14:34
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X-FadePretty sure that someone will be there to go through them.14:34
alteregoOr not, it's better if it's quick because if it's just Quim and Texrat looking through the applications having 1k plus would be murder14:35
psycho_oreosI'm guessing it could be you guys would be first in priority to get it when they come back14:35
alteregoThey went slightly over with the 600 or so applications.14:35
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alteregoYeah, probably.14:35
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alteregoIt is the single largest sub programme for launchpad.14:35
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alteregoThe ambassador programme is only like 30 or 40 devices.14:36
hiemanshubut Jaffa got his :(14:36
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X-Fadehiemanshu: not yet July :D14:36
lardmanhiemanshu: he already had an account14:36
alteregohiemanshu: yeah, but he already had a verified launchpad account14:36
* hiemanshu shoots Jaffa in the head, and shouts 'HEADSHOT'14:36
hiemanshuX-Fade: 4th of July today :P14:36
X-Fadehiemanshu: .fi doesn't care about that :)14:37
hiemanshuX-Fade: ah14:37
hiemanshualterego: lets hope what you said is true and we all get an email by wednesday :)14:39
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alteregoThat's what I'm hoping, I'd like to be able to play with it this weekend :)14:39
alteregoBut meh.14:39
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hiemanshuyeah, I have patched my email alerter to play 'I feel good' whenever I get an email from @nokia with N950 or Launchpad in the subject14:42
hiemanshuI remember GAN900 did something similar14:43
robbiethe1stNice! I've got 606+ installs of BM 1.0-RC1 in the last three days.14:43
robbiethe1stI have to say, creating that web-based 'readme' that opens on install was a stroke of genius! I forget exactly who gave me that idea.14:45
Hurrianrobbiethe1st, where does backupmenu hook into now?
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Hurriani previously used backupmenu with multiboot, and it's not a very pretty solution14:45
robbiethe1stYea. We have -> /etc/bootmenu.d/backupmenu.item -> my loader script -> main bm script14:46
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DocScrutinizer( <alterego> MohammadAG: but it's a program that runs and isn't a standard OMAP thing, it's a Nokia thing.) No, it's OMAP standard, and it's in SoC15:30
alteregoDocScrutinizer: ah, thanks for informing me :)15:34
Hurrianah, i think he meant the code was nokia-specific15:34
* alterego stands corrected :)15:34
Hurrianor does the "download code from USB" ootb omap standard?15:35
Hurrianif so, we can just freely replace said part then15:35 case of SoC damage15:35
DocScrutinizerthe SoC ROM BL is standard for all OMAP. The rootkey this little sucker uses to verify signature of xloader probably is Nokia's15:42
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DocScrutinizeryou probably *could* replace by a chip that has HS aka signature checking disabled, and it would run just as well. But you can't use xloader of COMBINED img with a HS enabled OMAP that has a different rootkey other than Nokia's15:44
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DocScrutinizeryou could however use xloader that comes with that chip, if it's identical in functionality to the one in COMBINED - which most probably is the case15:45
DocScrutinizerthat's roughly how they rooted some droids15:45
DocScrutinizerthey replaced the signature checking 1st stage xloader BL by another one that didn't check signature, so they were able to use their own 2nd stage BL (called NOLO on N900)15:47
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DocScrutinizerif you're interested in details15:53
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DocScrutinizerbtw this page also has a hint about why uSD is mmcblk0 aka first mmc controller on boot15:56
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DocScrutinizer :-D16:07
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FIQ|n900Hi. I have MeeGo installed on my SD card. However, I don't want it to start per default (w/uboot), but still want it available. Does uboot place a configure file somewhere for which order it tries to run commands, or is it decided at compile time?16:08
FIQ|n900I just wonder if i can switch places of "run mmcboot" and "run noloboot"16:09
FIQ|n900or if I need to recompile it for that16:09
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Sicelodoh.. Nokia 9300i can't sync with N900 via BT16:15
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: the file is somewhere on your SD card16:15
Corsachmhm, uboot-pr13 does that, so I'm not sure its config is on the sd card16:16
dm8tbrin uboot lingo that's the 'environment'16:16
dm8tbrdunno if the n900 uboot has save env functionality16:16
dm8tbrlet me try16:17
dm8tbrhmm saveenv does _something_16:18
dm8tbrand it claims to save to OneNAND16:18
dm8tbrFIQ|n900: printenv, saveenv and the u-boot docs are your friends16:19
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jonwilmy god MCE does a lot more with the power key in Fremantle than in MeeGo16:24
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jonwilcomming up with a powerkey.c that matches Fremantle is going to be annoying16:25
jonwilor maybe not, things are lining up now16:26
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: N900 uBoot has no "env", it reads a file from uSD instead afaik16:26
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I just tried :)16:26
DocScrutinizerali1234: any comments?16:27
DocScrutinizerI *bet* there's a page on meego wiki about it16:27
dm8tbrwhen it's loaded from uSD then it also usually has the env storage as a file in the same location as the uboot.bin16:28
dm8tbron the n900 it is stored instead of the kernel in nand, so there should be also plenty of space to store the env block16:29
dm8tbror did I misunderstand something?16:29
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ali1234DocScrutinizer that is correct16:31
ali1234unless somebody fixed it there is no way to saveenv (it just "saves" it in ram16:31
ali1234this is because u-boot doesn't know how to read or write the nand (it relies on nolo to load everything from nand into ram including the apended kernel image)16:32
khertan1No news about launchpad ?16:34
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DocScrutinizerali1234: thanks16:34
khertan1thx for the info16:35
jonwilI think my efforts to create some code for Fremantle MCE is going to stall somewhere around powerkey.c :(16:36
DocScrutinizerali1234: I gather uBoot will boot directly to the kernel that's in RAM then, if there's no such file on uSD16:37
DocScrutinizerjonwil: eeeek16:38
ali1234that is the fallback, yes16:39
DocScrutinizerjonwil: not to mention lockcode ;-P16:39
jonwilyeah tklock.c is going to be the most annoying16:40
jonwilsince I really want to know what tklock,c on Fremantle does16:40
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DocScrutinizertklock is not the lockcode I referred to16:40
DocScrutinizertklock is just the lockslider switch16:40
Stskeepslook at the old leaked mce for n8x0 maybe16:40
DocScrutinizerplus related stuff16:40
jonwilold leaked mce for n8x0? Where do I get this?16:41
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: thanks :-D16:41
jonwilrtcomm is?16:41
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jonwilwell tklock is the bit I care about right now16:43
jonwilso the new lock screen can replace the existing tklock systemui plugin16:43
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I'm sure you know this: (gfx-accel on zoom2)16:48
TermanaWhen I compile on my host machine for x86 and when I compile under scratchbox for ARMEL Harmattan my program goes fine but when I compile it under scratchbox for x86 Harmattan I get a floating point/arithmetic exception :\16:48
DocScrutinizerdamn, uploaded 16.12.200916:49
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i do16:49
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: what about it?16:49
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DocScrutinizerjust thought about opensource accel16:49
DocScrutinizeriirc you looked into that16:50
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Stskeepsopen source sgx? nah16:50
Termanagdb shows process 2560 is executing new program: /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/ Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception. 0x001115d1 in ?? ()16:50
DocScrutinizerso FYI16:50
Stskeepswe reused maemo libs on there16:50
TermanaDo we need to have it compile for x86 to make it into the repo? :p16:50
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jonwilhmmm, that mce code doesn't help so much, there is too much difference between the hardware'16:54
alteregoUrgh, waiting for launchpad emails, need to occupy myself with something16:55
* alterego does some washing up16:55
alteregoThen more work, then, hrm, dinner I guess.16:55
TermanaAnyone have a clue why I would get a floating point exception on x86 Harmattan but not on my host or ARMEL Harmattan? Bad toolchain?16:56
jonwilso we have code for Maemo4 MCE (Diablo) and Maemo6 MCE (Harmattan) but not the one we really need (Maemo5) :(16:58
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jonwilAnd from the sounds of the last comment in, no amount of justification would get Nokia to open source it...17:00
povbotBug 11794: Open Fremantle's MCE17:00
Jaffajonwil: If you go to one of the earliest revisions in gitorious, is it closer to fremantle's?17:02
ShadowJKTermana, well, what's the numeric calculation that gives sigfpe?17:02
jonwilI went to the earliest MeeGo git revision17:02
jonwiland that's the one I am referencing17:03
Jaffajonwil: Ah17:03
ShadowJKTermana, check values of both on both archs :P17:03
lardman~curse the Samsung N140's wifi chipset for just not wanting to work most of the time17:04
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, the Samsung N140's wifi chipset for just not wanting to work most of the time !17:04
jonwilso basically any further work to come up with usable source for the Fremantle MCE binary is pointless17:05
jonwilI can however work on the various mce plugins/modules17:05
hiemanshulardman: its samsung, what do you expect  :P17:05
Stskeepsjonwil: we patch mce on meego n900 btw17:05
Stskeepsjonwil: maybe something you can use17:05
TermanaShadowJK, how am I suppose to know what calculation is causing the problem? There are lots of calculations being done in the program and gdb and strace don't show anything useful17:05
jonwilwhere do you patch it?17:05
lardmanhiemanshu: true17:05
jonwilI have all the mce source code that I can find including MeeGo and Harmattan and now Diablo17:06
jonwiljust not the one I need :P17:06
Stskeepsjonwil: various areas, but Project:DE:Trunk mce or MeeGo:1.2:oss mce17:06
ShadowJKlardman, heh, mine doesn't work with wpa2/aes unless first connecting to a wpa2/tkip ap... after that everything and anything works17:06
TermanaShadowJK, I'm not sure if your asking why I'm using gdb or suggesting gdb - but if you are suggesting I use gdb, I already stated I am and it's not showing anything useful17:06
ShadowJKTermana, it doesn't show where it crashes?17:07
Termanagdb shows process 2560 is executing new program: /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/ Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception. 0x001115d1 in ?? ()17:07
Termanathat's all it says ^^17:07
lardmanShadowJK: I've noticed something similar, though for me often rebooting gets it to work - the wonders of Linux ;)17:07
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jonwilnope, those patches dont look like they will help17:08
ShadowJKlardman, mine does it in windows17:09
lardmanunder Windows it worked perfectly for me tbh17:09
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jonwilso yeah forget about making code changes to Fremantle MCE ever17:11
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dreamerhi all, I just got my n900 back from RMA and I'm trying to restore my backup. but the backup-application doesn't see thy backups folder I put in the home-directory17:20
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Jaffadreamer: 'backups' goes in /home/user/MyDocs17:21
Jaffadreamer: And grrr at you getting an N900 back. I got an N8 :-(17:22
hiemanshuJaffa: you got an upgrade, be happy :P17:22
Jaffahiemanshu: So they say...17:23
dreamerJaffa: hehe17:23
dreamerJaffa: hmm, the dir is there17:23
Jaffahiemanshu: Although the N950 does count as an upgrade, I guess17:23
JaffaI hope all the rest of you get them soon so I can have some moar appz17:23
hiemanshuJaffa: I dont know how its an upgrade, not even by versioning number :P17:23
hiemanshuJaffa: oh well, just send me yours :P17:23
hiemanshuJaffa: you know, I am getting ready to hire some hitmen for you :P17:24
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dreamerwhat should the permissions on backups/ be?17:24
dreamerwell it's 777 now anyway17:25
dreamerand it contains 4 zips and a .metadata17:25
Jaffadreamer: ISTR, it's actually something like /home/user/MyDocs/Backups/backups/backup-001/... in total?17:26
dreameroh, no it's /home/user/MyDocs/backups/*zip17:27
jonwilCalling the N8 an "upgrade" from a N900 is like calling a Ford Focus an "upgrade" from a Ford Mustang17:28
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Robot101jonwil: haha :)17:30
hiemanshujonwil: comparing ford to nokia is like comparing bacon to milk :P17:31
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MohammadAGanyone got a launchpad email yet?17:34
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dreamerJaffa: I put the dir where you said ( /home/user/MyDocs/Backups/backups/backup-001/ ) but the app still doesn't see it17:35
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lardmanJaffa: re Proximus, do you think there will be any conditions that cannot be signalled somehow? I.e. things that will need to be polled for?17:36
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lardmananyone else too, the floor is open17:36
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: we wish17:37
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jonwilbah, that Diablo MCE code doesnt have the tklock-dbus-names.h file which would have helped me17:39
lardmanbasically this is important because it will affect how the condition class objects need to be arranged, whether they can be setup to handle their own callbacks and trigger a state change, or whether a manager class is required (which will be the case for time duration conditions, probably)17:39
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Stskeepsjonwil: uh.. isnt that in mce-dev?17:39
Jaffajonwil: Heh, I used to work at Ford. And have had further job offers from both Ford & Nokia.17:39
jonwilnope, its not in mce-dev17:40
jonwilif it was, I wouldn't need to reverse engineer things17:40
jonwilthats not the same header file17:40
jonwiltklock-dbus-names.h has the info about how mce talks to systemui for  the tklock plugin17:40
Jaffalardman: I think everything can be pushed, but a timer adapter might take a notification class/plugin thing and trigger it automatically based on time (i.e. adapter pattern)17:40
jonwilwhich is the bit I care about17:40
lardmanthanks Stskeeps17:40
Jaffalardman: So, for the point of view of all actual triggers, they're push. But there might be a common timer engine which generates "push" events?17:41
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Jaffalardman: Not sure though17:41
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lardmanJaffa: depends how expensive timers are, my feeling is not very, in which case I may as well run a timer per condition17:41
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dreamerso anyone have an idea why I can't restore my backup?17:42
Stskeepsjonwil: cant you suss that from dbus?17:42
jonwilI am trying to figure out the tklock_close and tklock_open dbus calls17:42
Jaffalardman: True. There may be advantage in fuzzing the times slightly to get them aligned.17:42
lardmanonce the start of the time duration condition occurs, you then need to start another timer to trigger the change of state at the end, hence the thought of using a manager for that, but it's simple enough that it could all sit in the condition class itself17:42
Jaffalardman: and/or make it hard for something to define a timer which has to go off every second17:42
Jaffalardman: I'm easy on it. I suspect polling will be needed in a lot of cases, so maybe it's a core concept.17:43
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lardmanJaffa: in the former case that's more complicated, might be worth getting something started straight away; in the latter case that would be for the parser to decide17:43
jonwilI know what tklock_close and tklock_open look like but I dont know what the numbers mean17:43
Jaffalardman: Aye17:43
jonwiltklock_close takes one bool and I dont know what it does17:43
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lardmanJaffa: that's the thing, if polling is required, then I need to be very tricky with what I do; location is one where as the location changes (offline cell id) different things need to be done transparently, hence a manager17:44
alteregoJaffa: what did you get in the devkit box?17:44
Jaffaalterego: Box, quick start guide, N950, USB cable17:44
alterego(or is there a link to the itenarary?17:44
alteregoAh, so no charger?17:44
alteregoHeh, really minimal then17:44
lardmanJaffa: e.g. if a given event tree has some events that require polling, and some that are "push", then the tree will need to be inspected at creation time to check whether any of the polled conditions can themselves trigger the event, and if not they can be ignored until the whole tree is evaluated when one of the "push" events occurs17:45
Jaffalardman: Hmm, true.17:45
* jonwil ads tklock_open and tklock_close to the long list of small items (mostly dbus things) that, if I had more info on them, would enable me to advance Fremantle in ways not seen before17:45
lardmanas event is the thing we want to happen when some number of conditions are true - might help to explain my terminology17:46
alteregoJaffa: makes you wonder why they needed sugh a big box :P17:46
Jaffaalterego: The quick start guide seems to have defined it!17:46
lardmanJaffa: is quite an interesting challenge that tree parsing stuff, and the location method handoffs17:46
alteregoDoes the N950 have the same Camera as the N9?17:47
Jaffalardman: For each condition, it's known whether it's a push or timer event. As you say, when saving the tree, conditions are scanned and set up. As you say, if there's a mix, you can avoid polling unless the push notifications are met (depending on the operators)17:47
Jaffalardman: It is a proper interesting DSA/compsci problem, indeed.17:47
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Jaffaalterego: Similar, apparently. But different.17:48
Jaffalardman: Getting it right would be very cool17:48
lardmantimer events are push too of course17:48
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lardmanhence the question about any true polling events17:48
lardmanargh, conditions17:48
lardmanI guess stuff like headphone connection is broadcast over DBus so that also becomes a push condition17:49
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Jaffalardman: Yup17:52
dreameraarg, Backup keeps saying (no backups available) -_-17:52
dreameris there another way to restore these?17:53
X-Fadedreamer: Are you sure they are still on the device? You did copy them to your pc, did you?17:53
dreamerX-Fade: I copied them from my pc to the device17:54
X-Fadedreamer: Correct folder?17:54
dreamertried different folder names or hierarchies17:54
dreamerhmm wth, when I open the zips on my laptop they seem empty o.O17:55
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dreamerok that can't be, they have different sizes17:55
dreamerok, squeeze opens them fine .. so yeah17:56
dreamerX-Fade: what would the correct folder be?17:56
TermanaOk. So apparently you cannot run an application from the symlinked scratchbox folder.17:57
X-Fadedreamer: Depends on where you look from.17:57
dreamerI tried /home/user/Mydocs/{Backups|backups|Backups/backups/backup-001}/17:57
TermanaI moved it to the home folder, recompiled and its working now (well except the abort because it's trying to use pulseaudio, which it cant)17:57
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X-Fadedreamer: /home/user/MyDocs/backups/17:59
X-Fadedreamer: And then a folder for each backup.17:59
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dreamerX-Fade: ok, sweet. finally working now :)18:01
* dreamer hopes everything is like it should be afterwards ;)18:01
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jonwilbah, I give up. I just cant work out what these dbus calls look like :(18:11
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Stskeepsarent they similar on meego?18:15
trxi got accepted for n95018:15
Stskeepsi mean, engineers are by definition lazy18:15
jonwiland no, the calls arent similar18:17
khertan1someone have already try import com.meego 1.0 on n900 ?18:17
jonwilbecause systemui is gone18:17
jonwiland replaced with something else18:18
jonwilor rather is done differently18:18
Stskeepswe still have meegotouch-systemui18:18
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jonwilyeah but the way that mce talks to systemui for tklock is different18:20
jonwilAnyone know if libcellular-qt (Harmattan package) is open or closed?18:21
Stskeepsclosed, afaik18:21
jonwildamn :(18:22
jonwilprobably closed because opening it would expose all the DBUS calls into the closed cell stack18:22
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jonwilhmmm, actually, does help18:26
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khertan1ouch ... harmattan qt quick component isn't available yet for n90018:33
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jonwilNothing from Harmattan is available for N90018:34
Jaffafrals: ping18:34
Jaffakhertan1: Forum^W Nokia Developer are porting it18:34
hiemanshukhertan1: well you'll have to use pure QML for the N900 for now18:35
jonwilaha, now I see the value its passing18:35
Jaffakhertan1: And hopefully document the appropriate 'import' so that they aren't the only thing which differs between platforms18:35
Stskeepskhertan1: workijng on it for CE18:36
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khertan1hiemanshu: thx18:37
khertan1Jaffa: thx18:37
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* jonwil cant remember if enums in C start at 0 or 1...18:38
khertan1thx all18:38
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crashanddie"A bare-headed motorcyclist riding in protest of New York state's helmet law crashed, struck his head on the roadway and died from his injuries, state police said on Sunday."18:43
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ShapeshifterSo he crashanddied?18:48
trxwhat should i put in "Reason to Apply" step in Launchpad registration?18:49
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hiemanshutrx: meego ddp?18:49
trxanything specific?18:49
Jaffatrx: "Told to by Quim Gil as part of N950 DDP" ?18:49
trxJaffa thanks18:49
trxhiemanshu yes18:49
* Jaffa is just guessing18:49
JaffaBut that seems to relay the pertinent info18:50
jonwilok, combining all the sources of information I have (including MeeGo MCE, diablo MCE, Harmattan MCE, reverse enginereed Fremantle MCE, meegotouch-systemui and everything else, I should soon be making a post to the mailing list explaining the interfaces you need so you can replace the tklock systemui plugin with a new one18:50
hiemanshuok, so even the last list is out now18:52
* jonwil thinks it would have been better if the N950 had the same slider-type mechanism as the N900 rather than the flimsy-looking hinge it actually has18:55
jonwilbtw, is there a set of N950 hardware specs out there anywhere?18:55
jonwilor N9 specs for that matter?18:55
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jonwillol, claims n950 has JAVA19:00
hiemanshujonwil: you can install openjdk for it :P19:01
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* GeneralAntilles chuckles at Brits calling "Yah! We got rid of the Amercans day"19:04
GeneralAntillesYou guys fought awfully hard to keep us. :P19:04
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: no disco lights yet?19:05
GeneralAntillesNot so far. :(19:05
alteregoGeneralAntilles: just to make you feel special ;)19:06
hiemanshumaybe now that the lists are done, we should all spam the thread with 'WHERE IZ MY LAUNCHPAD'19:06
GeneralAntillesWhy do people gotta retweet their political tomfoolery. . . .19:06
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* hiemanshu generates a meme19:08
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles, alterego :
jonwilWhy does it seem like all my N900 efforts keep ending up at dead ends19:09
alteregojonwil: because the N900 is dead?19:09
* alterego chuckles19:09
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: We may have fought at the time, but hindsight is 20/20 :-p19:10
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: atleast we have common enemies :P19:10
GeneralAntillesYeah, it's still looking like the right choice from over here. :P19:11
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: lets team up and capture UK now19:12
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GeneralAntilleshiemanshu, who would want it?19:12
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: we can make it our dumping ground19:13
GeneralAntillesOn a lighter note, do we want to bet what timezone the people in charge of the LaunchPad auths are in?19:14
hiemanshuwe made a bet on .fi19:14
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Hey, our economy's (a bit) better than yours19:14
hiemanshuJaffa: they have legal pot :P19:14
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, yeah, we're on the long, slow road to serfdom over here.19:15
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Macerwow. phones sure have eliminated the need for quite a few electronics19:17
Macerno need for a digital cam, camcorder, or gps19:17
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Macerif someone does it right then there would be no need for a laptop anymore19:18
GeneralAntillesWell, dunno about eliminated.19:18
GeneralAntillesBut reduced the necessity for most.19:19
GeneralAntillesThat's what technology usually does, though. Improves efficiency.19:19
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fiferboyI'd like to see *someone* get through the Launchpad process; they should be able to get some people through quickly19:22
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Jaffafiferboy: Yeah, I want some apps ;-)19:25
JaffaAnnoyingly, one of the primary drivers for Hermes - the large avatar shown on incoming calls - is replaced with an 80x80 version of the avatar on Harmattan.19:25
JaffaToo minimalist19:25
fiferboyJaffa: Is that a limitation of the avatar stored on the device, or the call screen won't display a larger image?19:27
Jaffafiferboy: The call screen doesn't show it larger. I don't *think* it rescales19:28
fiferboyJaffa: Let me guess - the call screen code is not available?19:29
Jaffafiferboy: Nope19:29
GAN900Oh, Nokia19:30
GAN900You never learn19:30
GAN900I can't believe that they wouldn't be shipping updates for devs as frequently as possible.19:31
lardmansod updates, what about the device ;)19:32
GAN900Given this is the group doing all it can (for free) to keep your platform from being completely irrelevant19:32
GAN900lardman, well, I'm trying not to sound TOO selfish.19:32
fiferboyAt least they are (hopefully) getting a device out to devs before the commercial device19:33
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fiferboyOr: at least Jaffa got one - can't he fix everything?19:33
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hiemanshuwell DocScrutinizer has a launchpad account and he still hasn't got one19:34
crashanddieyes, Jaffa could fix everything.19:35
crashanddieIf he had 5 years and a million dollar paycheck.19:35
RST38hMoo all19:35
RST38hCritics say that roundabouts are more difficult to navigate for unfamiliar American drivers, lead to higher taxes and accidents, and require everyday acts of spontaneous co-operation and yielding to others  acts that are 'un-American.'"19:37
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crashanddieyeah, saw that, absolutely ridiculous19:37
RST38hThey do suck though =)19:38
crashanddieOh and also: "British-style roundabouts"...19:38
* lardman heads for home to do some more Proximus work19:38
lardmanRST38h: no they don't suck, they are great fun when it's wet19:38
crashanddieI mean, if there's any country that's entitled to getting the crown for creating the roundabout, it's France.19:38
crashanddieThere's one every 50 meters19:38
crashanddiethey even put them up for bikes...19:38
lardmananyway, catch you chaps tomorrow, hopefully with emails too....19:38
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RST38hlardman: Dry ones are fun too19:39
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GAN900Roundabouts are used fairly pointlessly here.19:41
GAN900What they usually end up turning into (thanks to incompetent drivers) are two-way stops.19:41
RST38hMore orless, yes19:41
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hiemanshufinally, we have people asking about launchpad on the thread, and nothing else to talk about, /me hopes for a reply now20:04
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odin_doing rounds in UK news today (but seems 9 months old news) time to port the new killer app for Maemo   features: one-click airstrike function, with augmented reality targeting feature (no need for force-feedback handsets), quick someone patent it20:06
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hiemanshuodin_: but we have no money to do that :(20:08
Jaffahiemanshu: Nokia's innovator network thing will patent things for you and give you some of the cash20:08
hiemanshuJaffa: really? wow20:08
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odin_that was my attempt at humour with todays news article "Getting shot at by Taliban fighters and need to call an air strike? There's an app for that."20:11
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, cablefinder?20:30
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: looks like quim cant do anything now, so we are pretty much screwed :/20:32
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GeneralAntilleshiemanshu, how do you mean?20:32
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: well, if they haven't approved something from the last 4 months, the ones that applied recently will have to wait another 4 months20:33
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GeneralAntillesSure hope not.20:33
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: so put the disco lights on hold and waiting for christmas :P20:33
GeneralAntillesThat'd make the whole program rather . . . pointless.20:33
hiemanshuah well, lets hope20:34
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: oh and there are summer holidays20:34
GeneralAntillesSurely they've planned for this.20:35
GeneralAntillesGiven it's Quim, I doubt it's going to be an issue.20:35
hiemanshunow, I am just starting to start insane :P20:35
* hiemanshu goes back to gsoc and php20:36
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* MohammadAG just hopes it arrives before Monday20:41
MohammadAGwhich doesn't seem the case :)20:41
hiemanshuMohammadAG: you mean the first monday of 2012?20:41
hiemanshuMohammadAG: or the one after 21st dec 2012?20:41
MohammadAGno, I mean 11/720:42
trxi can't log in in the damn wiki.meego.com20:43
trxany tips?20:43
dm8tbrlog in on first20:43
MohammadAGhiemanshu, got a calendar?20:43
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hiemanshutrx: log out of and re do it20:43
hiemanshuMohammadAG: what are those? :P20:44
trxi tried that20:44
trxlike 20 times20:44
MohammadAGcause 11/7 isn't a Monday in 201220:44
trxcleared cookies20:44
trxstill no luck :/20:44
MohammadAGbe smarter next time :P20:44
hiemanshutrx: you have to log out of, and then re-login via the wiki page20:44
trxtried FF and chrome20:44
hiemanshutrx: that should work20:44
trxhiemanshu tried that too :(20:44
hiemanshuMohammadAG: yo dawg, I heard you like dates, so I stole everyonez calendarz20:44
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MohammadAGapparently you don't know how to use them :P20:45
hiemanshuMohammadAG: lol, well I just hope they do it before I move to my new place next month20:46
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MohammadAGhiemanshu, going on holiday this month, i've already delayed it 5 days :P20:46
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: maybe we can hire lulzsec to hack em, and approve our requests :P20:47
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MohammadAGthey can pull a sony and close the site for a month :p20:47
MohammadAGon a partially related note20:48
MohammadAGWTF is lulzsec20:48
hiemanshuMohammadAG: its a team of elite hackers aka script kiddies, trying to have fun20:48
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dm8tbrI thought lulzsec dissolved?20:49
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hiemanshuthats what they want everyone to think, they'll come back with another name20:50
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hiemanshuor when they have found other scripts to hack20:50
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fusiback from glastonbury21:19
fusin900 lasted the entire week no problems21:19
fusiwith this lil 5000mah charger thing21:20
fusidid i forget to mention how much i freaking love my n900? xD21:20
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fusithat panorama app is _very_ good21:20
fusitook some epic pics21:20
fusimy max time between charges is now 1 day, 20 hours :D21:21
X-Fadefusi: Now that is just teasing :) Pics or it didn't happen :)21:21
infobotflashing is, like,
fusiX-Fade: 2 secs21:21
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Sicelobtw, do i flash vanilla first or combined?21:22
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fusiSicelo: the wiki has a page on that21:22
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alteregoSo, who's gonna make wagers on launchpad emails tomorrow?21:23
alteregoI still think Wednesday21:23
GeneralAntillesElop cancelled the program.21:23
alteregoAt bitch!21:23
alteregothat ..21:23
alteregoF'ing americans21:24
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alteregoMeh, at least I should have an N8 to play with by the end of the week.21:24
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: eh?21:25
alteregoLooking forward to playing with digi compass and accel stuff for columbus21:25
hiemanshualterego: I say thursday21:25
alteregohiemanshu: m'kay21:25
alteregoI say wednesday, or the end of next week :)21:25
MohammadAGI say they're already on their way21:25
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X-FadeI'd say they only had one and sent that one to Jaffa ;)21:26
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hiemanshuX-Fade: dont make me hate him more21:26
alteregoHe's a bitch.21:26
* alterego chuckles21:26
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, (spit!)21:26
alteregoAt least now we get get solid launchpad confirmations.21:27
hiemanshuI hate him enough to hire henchmen21:27
fiferboyElop is (IIRC) Canadian21:27
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Hey, shouldn't you be out and about getting druk or so?21:27
GeneralAntillesYes, nothing good ever came out of Canada.21:27
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, sitting here watching the ball game with some friends.21:27
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: You watching the Red Sox and Jays?21:27
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Must not be very good then :)21:27
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GeneralAntillesDrank myself drunk Saturday night for a friend's going away party (Air Force).21:27
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GeneralAntillesSo I'm done with teh alcohol for the week.21:27
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, Twins and Rays, duh.21:28
alteregoWhich makes the process easier next time ..21:28
alteregoNot that there will be a next time.21:28
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fiferboyalterego: You got a Launchpad confirmation?21:28
hiemanshufiferboy: how we wish21:29
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: yo :P21:29
rm_youso is SnapGo the final name? :P21:29
rm_youi noticed Doc put that on his wiki entry21:29
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, not necessarily.21:30
rm_youso i added it too, i guess we can call that the working title?21:30
GeneralAntillesIt's the name I've settled on for the time being.21:30
GeneralAntillesBut I'm not attached.21:30
rm_youworking title it is21:30
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, stupid Sox.21:30
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alteregofiferboy: no, I'm just saying this ddp is a good foot in the door for those that might want to take advantage of it in the future.21:33
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noobmonk3ylcuk: hows the sleep patterns? :) :)21:36
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MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, working apparently :P21:38
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X-Fadefusi: Cool shots :)21:41
noobmonk3ylol MohammadAG  :)21:42
X-Fadefusi: Looks like you had great weather to go with it?21:42
fusigot some more but my server is RLY slow :)21:42
fusimmmm sort of21:42
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fusirained a lot first 2 days, then had blistering heat wave heh21:42
fusiwas hard walking round cos the mud turned to glue :)21:43
fusia few more days rest and ill start back on that twitter plugin21:45
berteyhello guys, im looking for an application for my n900 device, which automatically answers via sms when i receive a sms with a certain "code" like 1234 - does something exist?21:45
fusitry smscon21:46
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fusitime for a naughty cig21:47
konttori_workJaffa: Do you want to enable landscape home on your n950?21:49
konttori_workcat /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/meegotouchhome.css21:50
konttori_workMainWindowStyle {21:50
konttori_work    locked-orientation: "";21:50
konttori_workPut that to the file and home will start supporting landscape21:50
alteregoI need to check out the qml a bit more21:50
alteregoin harmattan21:50
konttori_workI thought that's a nice thing somebody could do us all a favor and create a deb for it or something.21:51
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fiferboykonttori_work: Are third-party themes supported?21:51
konttori_workfiferboy: Yeah, but there is no setting plugin for those.21:52
konttori_workSomebody would need to package that21:52
* konttori_work is looking at community21:52
konttori_workLemme see if I can find the sources for it....21:52
konttori_workYou can change themes just by setting a gconf key.21:53
* alterego can see a nice themes app for him to work on ...21:53
alteregokonttori_work: are themes planned?21:53
GeneralAntillesS'too bad. The guy who was gonna do the theme work didn't get a device.21:54
alteregoI.E a theme selector in settings?21:54
konttori_workalterego: interesting question. I'm wondering about that every now and then.21:54
X-Fadekonttori_work: Don't see meegotouchhome dir in /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/ :(21:54
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alteregoI'm interested to see how operators customise the UX ..21:54
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, base?21:55
konttori_workX-Fade: I think you need to create it21:55
X-Fadekonttori_work: Ah.21:55
X-Fadekonttori_work: trying...21:55
konttori_workblanco is inheriting base and overriding things from it.21:55
* dm8tbr idly ponders what will be the place on irc where people will discuss the n9/n950 in the future as 'maemo' is kind of politically incorrect21:55
konttori_workSo, base of course does contain it, and contains for that property the value:"Portrait" (or something)21:55
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konttori_workHere is the theme applet:
konttori_workI suppose I could see if we (Nokia) would be ever so kind as to pull it in to some update release.21:59
konttori_workI know 1.1 is out of the question, as it's coming so fast.21:59
konttori_workBut 1.2 could be conceivable.21:59
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X-Fadekonttori_work: Hmm didn't work after reboot. Checking if I made a typo :)22:00
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konttori_workAnyway, it's a long time for pr1.2, so in the meanwhile, it would be great if somebody would package that.22:00
alteregokonttori_work: do you know anything about N950 updates? Like how long we can expect to see them?22:00
konttori_workalterego: N9 flash works in N95022:00
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konttori_workSo, once the sales release (1.0) is made, then it's about a week or two until you'll get your hands on it.22:01
GeneralAntilleskonttori_work, MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan 1.1?22:02
GeneralAntilleskonttori_work, how likely is it the N950 will get an updated image before the N9 is out?22:02
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konttori_workvery likely22:02
alteregom'kay, what about a more updated dev image? I've heard a few people brick them and can't flash as the image on nokia dev is older ..22:02
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* dm8tbr is happy to see the flasher is available now as separate download22:03
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* X-Fade looks at icons in landscape :D22:04
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VenemoX-Fade, wut?22:04
alteregoThat's cool, so Harmattan home is a QML overlay22:05
X-Fadekonttori_work: 's trick worked.22:05
X-FadeOh, but on rotate it messes up rendering once.22:05
alteregoWith a bit of poking we should be able to create custom home screens :)22:05
alteregoX-Fade: probably why it's disabled ;)22:06
X-FadeSome icons move to other parts :)22:06
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X-FadeYou need to scroll all the way up and down for it to reflow them.22:06
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hiemanshu <--- wonder if that is jaffa22:07
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SpeedEvilThere have been a few people who have had that happen to them.22:09
alteregoYeah, I thinkk I was one of the lucky last few ..22:10
alteregoTo get a repaired usb22:11
* alterego is gonna have to be extra careful now ..22:11
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fralsMece: where is qlister?!22:14
NIN101_I bought mine from amazon and send it back to them last month and got a complete new one.22:14
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alteregoI like how the harmattan ui isn't scared of reduced margins due to the nice glass22:15
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NIN101_So if you want an N900 back, avoid nokia care centers.22:17
Mecefrals, where's my N950?22:19
fralsMece: ;<22:19
hiemanshueating dust at the nokia HQ22:19
Mecealterego, did you get your device already?22:20
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alteregoMece: nope,22:22
Mecealterego, any word? (I've gotten nothing)22:23
* khertan is waiting launchpad22:25
Mecekhertan, me too..22:26
* khertan think it s the case for everyone except for iznogood22:27
Jaffakonttori_work: ooh, certainly interested22:27
khertan(jaffa) ...22:27
Jaffahiemanshu: Not me, but it certainly sounds like it22:27
konttori_workX-Fade: ah, good to hear that! What kind of reordering issues?22:28
X-FadeBtw, konttori's hack also changes every other swipe panel :)22:28
X-Fadekonttori_work: It doesn't reflow the icons.22:28
X-Fadekonttori_work: So if you change orientations, you get gaps.22:28
* khertan is happy, he as successfully put a QTextEdit with QSyntaxHighlighting in a QML View :)22:28
GeneralAntilleskhertan, there are a couple people who have LaunchPad accounts but no devices yet.22:29
GeneralAntillesSo, we'll see.22:29
konttori_workX-Fade: odd. Hmm.. I'll see what I can do about that. There is probably missing some .Landscape definition somewhere.22:29
khertanyep ... w8 and see ;)22:29
* Jaffa would *love* to know how to not have his app auto-repaint as portrait in the task switcher, despite declaring an intention to have fixed landscape orientation22:29
X-Fadekonttori_work: Swiping to another view and coming back fixes it.22:29
X-Fadekonttori_work: So maybe just a missing redraw or so.22:29
GeneralAntillesJaffa, where's your source?22:30
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* khertan still don't know how to do the ui things to be able to open multiple file in KhtEditor, with only one window ... qml is limiting possibilities22:31
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* khertan bet that harmattan qt component will be available before he get the n950 in his mailbox22:31
JaffaGeneralAntilles: gitorious22:31
* khertan bet that harmattan qt component for freemantle will be available before he get the n950 in his mailbox22:32
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* khertan will probably experiment some gui concept now for KhtQmlEditor22:32
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konttori_workX-Fade: I'll test it in a while on current version.22:34
X-Fadekonttori_work: I'm testing it on the one with the curious version number jump :)22:34
konttori_workJaffa: alterego: If you are interested in harmattan themes, read this:
* GeneralAntilles should probably learn git at some point.22:35
khertanXephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 854x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac +extension Composite &22:35
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alteregoDo you really type that in manually everytime?22:36
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khertan nope copy paste22:36
khertanin fact ... select, middle click22:36
gridesktop shortcurts are lame? :D22:37
khertanand it s should end up in the transpart gnome terminal22:37
khertanwhere a vim was running writing a little script22:37
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wazdJaffa: ping? :)22:38
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alteregoI have a launche that does it22:39
GeneralAntillesOS X users, what's the name of the new project that's replacing Fink and MacPorts?22:40
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konttori_workThis allows runtime change of theme: gconftool-2 -t string -s /meegotouch/theme/name base22:40
konttori_workgconftool-2 -t string -s /meegotouch/theme/name blanco22:40
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macmaN GeneralAntilles gentoo prefix :>22:43
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khertanUsing the sdk did you get also coredump while using the mouse scroll wheel ?22:44
cityLightshi khertan22:45
khertanhi cityLights22:45
cityLightsodd but I found this odity22:46
cityLightsif I add a sys.stdout.write the program does update the cellular readings22:47
cityLightsother wise it doesnt22:47
cityLightsnow, the cellular readings I found are interesting22:48
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konttori_workX-Fade: the issue still happens on latest meegotouchhome22:59
konttori_workI created a bug for it to internal bugzilla.22:59
X-Fadekonttori_work: Ok, cool.22:59
X-FadeWell.. not so much, but still :)22:59
grikonttori_work: Any dates when the sdk update will come? one month?23:01
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Jaffawazd: pong23:04
konttori_workgri: I haven't really been following the SDK dates so carefully. I think in about 3 weeks time. Then you would also get a new flash image.23:04
konttori_workBut I could be totally wrong and don't quote me on that.23:05
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Jaffawazd: Although I missed your MeeGoConf session, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on Hermes UI having seen Harmattan's UX guidelines23:11
* RST38h heyas at waz23:12
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JartzaI bought a tool, a finish nailer23:45
Jartza(not finnish nailer :)23:46
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cehtehwtf is a "finish nailer"?23:49
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cehtehah .. google helps23:49
cehtehJartza: and now using that to reattach the broken usb port? :)23:50
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hiemanshuJartza: a lot of people would prefer the finnish nailer :P23:54
* alterego contemplates getting a qt cert23:54
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Jartzacehteh: haven't tried yet, but that's a good idea :)23:58
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