IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-07-03

*** chigga has quit IRC00:00
* vi___ waits for RST38h to deliver00:01
hiemanshuMohammadAG: yo dawg, I heard you like to study, so we failed you AGAIN! :D00:02
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo00:03
* Jaffa just can't get the difference between recursion and iteration - I keep going over and over it, but I just can't get into it.00:04
*** c2pLaY has quit IRC00:04
JaffaI'll get my coat.00:04
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC00:04
* dm8tbr groans00:05
vi___Jaffa: ...00:05
*** DrGrov has joined #maemo00:06
javispedroJaffa: hand in your geek card right now. As well as your N950.00:06
javispedro... the geek club gentlemen tell me you can keep the card but not the N950, though.00:09
*** xur17 has quit IRC00:09
*** talmage has quit IRC00:09
*** Smily has quit IRC00:11
RST38hJaffa: Recursion is where your stack grows00:13
RST38hJaffa: I.e. you do not just loop, you call yourself00:13
RST38hTail recursion (i.e. where you call yourself at the end of your function) can be effectively converted to iterations00:13
javispedroi think it was kind of a joke00:14
RST38hMaybe, yea, but I have not got it =E00:14
javispedroso multitouch on te n9{50,} is handled by xinput2...00:15
*** MoonTiger has quit IRC00:15
*** talmage has joined #maemo00:15
* javispedro starts to feel slight pain even before checking out xinput2 headers00:15
*** talmage has quit IRC00:17
*** Atarii has quit IRC00:18
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo00:22
*** noobmonk3y has joined #maemo00:24
* noobmonk3y blinks00:24
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: :-)))00:25
*** inz has quit IRC00:25
noobmonk3yMohammadAG / frals what have you lot done with lcuk? or has he gone soft! now he has a baby he takes time out from Ircing?! :P00:25
ieatlintgeeks with kids is always a scary propsect00:26
*** perlite has quit IRC00:28
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has joined #maemo00:28
*** perlite_ has joined #maemo00:29
*** perlite_ is now known as perlite00:29
*** ced117 has quit IRC00:29
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: lemme guess... driver for that is completely closed?00:31
*** rd has joined #maemo00:31
javispedroDocScrutinizer: didn't check it, it's just that the entire multitouching thing is pretty much a jungle atm00:32
DocScrutinizerlol, expected no less than that00:32
DocScrutinizerMT is a concept way too young in IT00:32
DocScrutinizerprobably all APIs and whatnot will constatntly change on a weekly pace for the next say 5 years00:33
*** Smily has joined #maemo00:34
javispedrobefore xinput2, they were asking the kernel for mt directly, bypassing x11 =)00:35
DocScrutinizerooh new experimental xinput2.1, as of Dec 2010. Say, will it suffice when I check this site once a day for changes?00:36
*** Smily has quit IRC00:37
DocScrutinizeryou may feel pain, I start to feel nausea00:37
DocScrutinizerand I'm not even pondering to look at the headers00:38
RST38hthe key moment is when you start feeling insanity crawling up00:38
RST38hSymbian has been known to cause that00:38
*** rd has quit IRC00:38
DocScrutinizerI love to watch peolpe on experiencing that moment00:39
*** OkropNick has quit IRC00:39
DocScrutinizermaybe sybian designers felt similar00:40
RST38hSymbian designers are long beyond insanity now00:41
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I wonder if sybian is better than symbian :D00:41
RST38hA moment (locating an article)00:41
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I bet the designers are quite happy people00:41
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: or maybe high00:41
GeneralAntilleshiemanshu, gotta hook it up to an AppleScript so it discos the house lights and turns on all of the stereos when I get an email containing "N950".00:41
javispedrodo we know the max number of simultaneous touches on the n9 display?00:42
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: haha, nice :D00:42
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: I have a google email checker/notifier, maybe I can patch it to play 'I feel good' when it get an email containg N95000:43
RST38hDoc,javispedro: Here, enjoy:
* hiemanshu is going insane trying to design a softphone00:43
RST38h(avoid eating immediately before or in the process of reading this)00:44
*** Openfree has joined #maemo00:44
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I wonder if (and when) Quim will send an informative mail ""(if you are not accidentally in this list) We just have sent the last bunch of AIDs to launchpad dudes. check following URL for something to happen""00:44
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I heard at least 6.00:45
javispedropre has 500:45
Hurrianali1234 : image mounted, beginning experiments.00:45
*** dos11 has quit IRC00:45
* javispedro increases MAX_TOUCHES #define00:45
*** chenca has quit IRC00:46
Hurrianubi0:var /var ubifs noauto,no_chk_data_crc,bulk_read00:46
Hurrianwhat the00:46
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: 10 is a rather sane max00:46
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: but I can use my foot too?00:47
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you mutant racist00:47
hiemanshujavispedro: I can probably got 10 fingers and 6 toes on the 3.9" screen00:47
javispedroby then the capacitive screen wil probably be able to electrocute you00:48
hiemanshuits ok, I'll wear rubber slippers :P00:48
DocScrutinizerI'd say this is handled by generic -ETOMUCHTOUCHPONTS00:49
*** auskalo has quit IRC00:49
DocScrutinizer-EMAXTP even00:49
DocScrutinizerany UX designer telling me we need >10 will immediately get shot00:50
hiemanshuany ux designer telling me he needs to use more than 4 fingers needs to be shot, and have one hand chopped off00:51
infobothiemanshu meant: any ux designer telling me he needs to use more than 4 fingers needs to be shot, or have one hand chopped off00:51
DocScrutinizer 0:1000:52
GeneralAntilleshiemanshu, OK, script enabled.00:54
* GeneralAntilles wishes he had an alarm siren.00:54
DocScrutinizeractually 1:5300:54
javispedroGeneralAntilles: in five years, when you have completely forgotten what Nokia was, suddenly your stereo will turn on indicating your Launchpad application has been approved, causing you a heart attack.00:54
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: games are different :D00:55
*** vi___ has quit IRC00:56
hiemanshujavispedro: well, if nokia is dead in 5 years, I can see apple at the top, and android being the next symbian00:57
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: see, this separates the hotspurs from the considerate API designers00:57
DocScrutinizera max of 10 seems ok00:57
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: agreed00:57
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: for something unlike that, for any normal workflow 4 is sane00:58
hiemanshuis nokia changed the swipe to 2 finger instead of 1, it would avoid a lot of swiping mistakes00:58
*** the_lord has quit IRC00:58
DocScrutinizergood point00:59
*** DrGrov has left #maemo00:59
hiemanshuesp if you have used an iPhone before, you will know how important swiping from the edge of the screen can be a times00:59
DocScrutinizerwhere's my gconf tweaker to set all those parameters?!?00:59
javispedroit's now CSS files.01:01
javispedrobut I disagree.01:01
javispedromultitouch suckss.01:01
hiemanshujavispedro: sure, but when you have it, use it sanely01:01
javispedroeverytime you require more than one finger, you've failed.01:01
hiemanshueverytime you require a fingure you have failed01:02
javispedrogimme my stylus!01:02
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC01:02
hiemanshuwhat stylus? use your brain waves01:02
DocScrutinizergconftool -s t=int /maemo/swipe/swipegesturefingers 201:02
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo01:03
DocScrutinizeractually scrolling with 2 fingers is the best part of my laptop's touchpad01:04
DocScrutinizerdamn, why mt, why c-ts at all, when you're not *exploiting* it?01:05
hiemanshuusing mt just for pinching is like using a jet plane to go to work 5 mins away from home01:05
GeneralAntillesMultitouch is great for trackpads01:05
javispedroDocScrutinizer: because I still like to use this stuff singlehandedly from time to time.01:05
GeneralAntillesGimmicky for mobile devices.01:06
* javispedro prefers synaptic's circular scrolling instead of twofinger01:06
DocScrutinizerso what? javispedro do you need two hands to do a 2 finger swipe instead of a one-finger swipe?01:06
javispedrohm.. yes?01:07
Hurrian...awright. the SD card has been loaded with MeeGo software.01:07
* javispedro ponders how to grab the thing stably so that I have more than thumb finger free.01:08
Hurrianuh... Harmattan software01:08
DocScrutinizerI start to get it why you had problems with  MAX_TOUCHES #define01:08
hiemanshujavispedro: use your foots01:08
javispedroDocScrutinizer: sadly I only have one thumb finger per hand, dunno about you..01:08
DocScrutinizer2, like any decent parrot01:09
Hurriannow it would really suck, if it started writing to mtd101:09
*** Tscheesy has quit IRC01:10
*** davyg has quit IRC01:10
Hurrianhopefully the meego kernel would disallow any freaky shit01:11
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: see, that's why we urgently need a API to *configure* such things like SWIPENUMFINGERS, T_DBLCLICK, SWIPEFRAMESIZE_PIX...01:11
javispedroyes, I was also being racist towards mutants here I think...01:11
*** geaaru has quit IRC01:12
*** Hurrian has quit IRC01:12
DocScrutinizerIt's simply arrogant for a UX designer to think he got the only valid doubleclick-duration etc01:12
DocScrutinizerall those parameters need a proper API, nah even a proper settings tool OOTB01:13
*** nid0 has joined #maemo01:15
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC01:16
DocScrutinizerthings like that auto-symbol/auto-bluekey, like what to do on doubleclick of $random(-button), like how many fingers to use for swipe gesture, how much damping / inertia kinetic scrolling got... all that is way more to the top of my list of important things user must have a way to control than such nonsense like wallpapers01:17
DocScrutinizermaybe it's just me and I'm going weird...01:19
hiemanshuI dont think I even change wallpapers on my phones/computers01:19
DocScrutinizerI never did01:19
hiemanshuwell my N900 has the default theme/wallpaper, so does my computer, my gaming PC and about every other device I own01:20
DocScrutinizerwell, I kicked out whatever wallpaper came with my desktop distro, and replaced it by a simple color gradient01:20
javispedro is still useless.01:21
javispedroday of the week! please!01:21
hiemanshuthe wallpaper on my gaming PC is a photo I clicked because the default W7 one is stupid and sasd01:21
DocScrutinizerOMFG I don't dare to even peek01:21
hiemanshujavispedro: used the Qt default names :/01:22
DocScrutinizerNOOOOOOOOOOOO ohnoooooes!01:22
DocScrutinizeragain slotmachine01:22
hiemanshuwell thats how the iPhone does it01:22
* hiemanshu isn't suggesting anything though01:23
*** Chewtoy_ has quit IRC01:23
DocScrutinizerPFFFFFFFFF! More than good a reason to do it diferently, possibly better01:23
*** Chewtoy_ has joined #maemo01:23
*** radic has quit IRC01:24
MohammadAGslot machine method isn't bad01:25
DocScrutinizerzenity --calendar  FTW!01:25
MohammadAGbut hildon had a retarded bounce effect01:25
DocScrutinizerslot machine is nonsense01:26
MohammadAGso when you lift your finger it doesn't stay where it is01:26
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo01:26
*** mfridh has joined #maemo01:26
*** mfridh has joined #maemo01:26
DocScrutinizerslotmachine is as uninspired as it possibly can get01:27
DocScrutinizerand, as javispedro noticed, still missing day-of-week01:27
DocScrutinizerI'm ~20 times faster with zenity --calendar than witj friggin slotmachine01:28
* noobmonk3y blinks01:28
SpeedEvilThey're optimising the first usecase over the normal.01:28
SpeedEvilThe slotmachine is cool the first few times01:28
javispedroplease learn:
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: "we meet today in two weeks"01:29
DocScrutinizer"Friday in 3 weeks"01:29
DocScrutinizer"first monday of November"01:30
DocScrutinizerI want to see the UX gasheads entering "second monday of november" with their slotmachine01:30
DocScrutinizerweek 3801:31
javispedroDocScrutinizer: even "next tuesday" is deadly hard.01:31
javispedrono need to get to brutal extremes01:31
javispedrowhen adding appointments, I'm usually the only one that looks at the ceiling, lost, making the mental calculation.01:32
javispedroevery otherone in the meeting having lost that ability because their pim platform does it for them.01:32
DocScrutinizerthis is so painfully ridiculously useless a widget, I'm out of words for it01:32
Hurrianah, crap, n950 image messed up my device01:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: in maemo5 calendar you at least can click on a day in week- or month-view, to add a new appointment there01:34
*** liar has quit IRC01:34
Hurriani'm pretty sure these are watchdog reboots01:34
javispedromine boots to agendaview with prominent "add event" button so I always forget.01:34
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo01:34
* hiemanshu is out for the night01:35
* DocScrutinizer too01:35
Hurrianbrb, need a reflash01:35
*** Hurrian has quit IRC01:35
javispedrohiemanshu: DocScrutinizer cya then.01:36
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: should we start a petition to Nokia "please get a decent usable date selector widget - nuke slotmachine" ?01:36
DocScrutinizer(for harmattan/N9)01:37
javispedrotoo late probably, though we could file the bug.01:37
DocScrutinizerindeed, highest priority01:37
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders where to file bugs against harmattan01:37
*** tackat has joined #maemo01:38
*** mens has joined #maemo01:39
menshelo what is news on n950?01:39
macmaNcan anyone log into Maps with their N950?01:40
mensoh it's the great emulator porter javispedro !  thank you01:40
hiemanshuall hail javispedro! all hail javispedro!01:40
*** Chewtoy has quit IRC01:40
menshas someone make faster pulseaudio?01:41
*** Chewtoy_ has quit IRC01:41
*** Chewtoy has joined #maemo01:41
*** eijk has quit IRC01:42
*** inz has joined #maemo01:43
javispedrothough n950 might not need to do xprot01:43
javispedroand friends.01:43
macmaNi guess its not maps, its that nokia accounts isnt working on n95001:43
*** DrGrov has joined #maemo01:45
DocScrutinizermeh, I'll probably not contribute to - this site refuses to log me in when I use Konqueror, despite cookies enables, js enabled, modules enabled, and even browser-id set to FF-3x01:46
*** mens has quit IRC01:46
DocScrutinizerI'm just back to absolutely same login page01:47
javispedroaegis did a fullbody scan on your browser01:47
DocScrutinizersorry Nokia :-S01:47
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: use lynx :D01:48
* DocScrutinizer beats hiemanshu with aegis01:48
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: please dont beat me with a scumbag01:48
*** florian has quit IRC01:48
*** DrGrov has left #maemo01:50
DocScrutinizerooh, forgot to mention: I of course cleaned out all old cookies of that site, no that there've been many01:50
*** noobmonk3y has quit IRC01:51
DocScrutinizer(for I actually had to clean out a "session-end" cookie, and it finally allowed me to log in)01:51
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo01:54
hiemanshugah, its 4.30 am :/01:54
* hiemanshu is out for real01:54
HurrianHAM, how i hate thee01:55
*** Kaptenen has joined #maemo01:55
Hurrianit is so buggy and slow01:56
*** otep has quit IRC01:56
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo01:57
*** otep has joined #maemo01:59
*** FIQ has joined #maemo02:01
*** nid0 has quit IRC02:01
*** tackat has quit IRC02:02
*** nid0 has joined #maemo02:04
DocScrutinizerwent via plain login URL instead of this redirection thing you get when you hit the loginscreen via e.g.  Deleted again *all* cookies related to *nokia*, accepted all cookies, ignored the recursive-link "404" screen of the browser by hitting F5, and TADAA voila: I'm logged in to developer.nokia02:04
Hurrian@DocScrutinizer : the new design's buggy?02:05
javispedrowell, seems that Xinput2 looks mostly sane.02:05
DocScrutinizerthe old one wasn't? :-P02:06
Hurriananyone got the note on N950 firmware : DO NOT USE02:06
Hurriannokia as expected did another Nokia02:07 *never* previously worked for me logging in, on Konqueror02:07
Hurrian(thanks qwerty12 for that expression ;)02:07
Hurrianneeded to reflash D:02:07
javispedroHurrian: the ddp devices have another firmware version seemignly02:07
*** Oppo|n900 has joined #maemo02:08
DocScrutinizererr wut? you mustn't flash the N950 with the only available N950 firmware image, or what?02:08
Hurrianno, i mean running the n950 image on the N90002:09
Hurrianinstant fs clobbering02:09
*** Spydemon has quit IRC02:10
javispedrowhy you'd want to do that, I mean, mtdswap probably instantly killed your rootfs.02:10
javispedroit's not like mtd partitions are nicely mapped out in a first sector, they're hardcoded02:10
Hurrianrun N950 sw image -> hang on boot -> battery pull -> bootup M5 -> kernel panic -> startup -> Internal Errors Everywhere02:10
Hurrianvar was the only one on a ubi partition02:11
Hurrianeverything else was on ext4 and /mydocs02:11
Hurrianfun fact, /home is on a separate partition02:11
javispedroI'm not talking only about ubi.02:11
javispedrothere's mtdswap.02:11
Hurrianhmm, didn't know about that02:12
Hurrianbrb, bfast02:12
javispedroI sure hope it is dead by now.02:14
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'm about to enter a ticket. You say is the datepicker widget used in harmattan, right?02:15
*** the_lord has joined #maemo02:15
javispedroDocScrutinizer: not sure, that seems to be the qml one02:15
DocScrutinizerok, nevermind02:15
DocScrutinizeranother time02:15
javispedrosave the prose for next time though :)02:15
javispedroI'm sure that as soon as I try to enter an event in stock calendar I am going to need it.02:16
*** inz has quit IRC02:17
macmaNDocScrutinizer: can you sign in to nokia account?02:18
ali1234Hurrian: what the hell did you do??02:18
SpeedEvilali1234: Tried to install n950 firmware on the n900 with a hammer.02:18
ali1234i know but i'm guessing he didn't just flash the fiasco02:18
Hurrianali1234: cssu!02:19
ali1234what does cssu have to do with it?02:19
*** Necc has quit IRC02:20
ali1234i would probably try to launch just the ux from a chroot if i was going to try it02:22
*** rcg has quit IRC02:23
ali1234you'll have to kill hildon and disabl the watchdog though02:23
javispedroI mean, most of meegotouch runs without such ado02:26
ali1234because running two window managers isn't going to work very well?02:27
*** chigga has joined #maemo02:27
javispedroah, you mean the sw watchdog02:27
*** Scifig has quit IRC02:27
ali1234i mean whatever it is that reboots the phone if hildon exits02:27
*** Soder has joined #maemo02:28
javispedroeither way, if you plan to use the stock kernel, biggest issue is softfp sgx libraries02:28
ali1234why is that an issue? can't link to them?02:29
javispedronot easily...02:29
javispedrosgx libs have plenty of FP parameter passing -- not going to work unless you make a wrapper.02:30
*** the_lord has quit IRC02:30
javispedroand I'm not sure wheter the CE hardfp libraries will work with the stock n900 kernel, but most probably don't.02:31
javispedroif you want to get as of now the most similar ui to n9, just apt-get meegotouch (yes, it's there), and scp the theme files from harmattan. won't get swipe, but then swipe in n900 would be pain imho.02:32
* ieatlint wonders how long before swype takes an issue with swipe02:33
ali1234isn't it more about getting the apps?02:33
*** inz has joined #maemo02:33
javispedrobut I do not think you're getting the propietary apps working with stock kernel.02:34
javispedromaybe if you do the above but on top of meegoCE instead of maemo ;)02:35
ali1234yeah i was just thinking that02:35
ali1234can you make reverse debs like you can with rpms?02:35
javispedrono idea what that is.02:36
javispedrobut does not sound like the hard part.02:36
ali1234well with rpm you can query the list of files installed by each rpm, and then reconstruct the original rpm from the filesystem02:36
javispedroah.02:36 either we fix the CE kernel or hack up the 2.6.32 kernel?02:36
ali1234thus turning an installed system back into a repository02:36
ali1234then you can install those rpms somewhere else :)02:37
javispedroHurrian: fix what?02:37
Hurrianto make it boot Harmattan02:37
javispedrobut what's broken.02:37
Hurrianactually, we have to break it nokia's way ;)02:38
javispedroforget about just flashing image, which is I think what you want to do.02:38
*** Ido__ has left #maemo02:39
*** n6pfk has quit IRC02:39
javispedrochroot as ali1234 suggested, and start component by component. do not ever run one single initscript from the image.02:39
ali1234try booting the n950 kernel on n900, see what happens :)02:39
javispedrodifferent audio setup at least ;)02:39
ali1234where did it branch from mainline?02:39
ali1234just rebuild it with rx51 support :)02:40
*** petterw has quit IRC02:40
javispedrothat _might_ work.02:40
ali1234there is plenty of stuff to try02:40
ali1234most of it probably won't work02:40
javispedrocause I bet they did harmattan testing on n900, so it's probably not much rotten.02:40
*** s1gk1ll has quit IRC02:40
ali1234and none of it will work without lots of hacking02:41
*** s1gk1ll has joined #maemo02:41
javispedrobut either way.02:41
SpeedEvilIt would be fascinating if you could get alien firmware working.02:41
*** muellisoft is now known as Muelli02:41
javispedroYou might not need anything other than the meegoCE kernel...02:41
*** Soder has quit IRC02:41
SpeedEvilEven if only from the dev POV02:41
*** Soder has joined #maemo02:41
javispedroSpeedEvil: what do you mean? -- people get e.g. gentoo running on it daily.02:42
SpeedEviljavispedro: I mean n950 fw on n90002:42
javispedrothat's more concrete than alien ;P </nitpick>02:42
SpeedEvilI should read backscroll, I thoguht that was clear.02:42
Hurrianjavispedro, i did it the meego-CE way02:43
*** inz has quit IRC02:43
javispedroSpeedEvil: don't mind. It's just that I though you used "alien" to specifically mean more alien than another maemo release ;)02:44
Hurriancopy to sd card, flasher -l02:44
Hurriannot flashing using flasher!02:44
*** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC02:44
ali1234i thought you were talking about the thing that turns rpms into debs...02:44
ali1234Hurrian: so you dd the ext4 image to a sd partition and then boot a meego kernel with root=sd card partition02:45
javispedrotherefore ran all harmattan init scripts, including the one that does mtdswap on some mtd partition.02:45
*** Evanescence has joined #maemo02:45
ali1234yeah i wouldn't really expect that to work too well02:45
ali1234maybe if you edit the initscripts to just give you a root shell02:46
ali1234and then try to load stuff up 1 at a time02:46
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo02:46
Hurrianali1234: yup02:48
Hurrianjavispedro, what is mtdswap?02:48
javispedroHurrian: exactly what it says on the tin: swap on mtd.02:48
Hurrianwow, that seems like a really bad idea02:49
Hurrianswap... on mtd02:49
alteregoI wonder if it's the same on N902:50
javispedroyou prefer on eMMC card with completely propietary and probably weak wear management firmware?02:50
*** Smily has joined #maemo02:50
alteregoN950 limited life, N9 limited life?02:50
cehtehdoa :)02:50
ali1234hey, here's an idea, why don't we make a mobile OS that doesn't need 1GB ram to run02:50
ali1234we could call it... symbian02:50
*** KMFDM has quit IRC02:50
alteregoali1234: a mobile os shouldn't need that to run :P02:51
alteregoF'ing ubuntu doesn't need that to run ..02:51
javispedroali1234: maybe it's not on n9, cause of 1GiB RAM. Also, ramzswap is around.02:51
cehtehcareless apps do and bling does02:51
ali1234lol ubuntu...02:51
alteregoN950 has 1G ram02:51
ali1234my ubuntu runs really fast now that i have 16gb02:51
cehtehhas the n9 ramzswap?02:51
ali12344gb was NOT enough02:51
alteregoali1234: I run it on machines with less than qG fine02:51
alterego1G ..02:51
ali1234the speed difference is incredible now02:52
ali1234firefox almost never freezes. almost02:52
alteregofirefox, the new emacs :)02:52
javispedrohave to say that's probably rotary media large cache in effect.02:52
alteregoShame I like 'em both :D02:53
ali1234probably, coupled with firefox's retarded "i want to manage my own cache" policy02:53
javispedroali1234: on a 16GiB it may make sense to install preload and all the adaptative crap, if you can stand the hard disk activity.02:53
cehtehthe nice thing about 32 bit firefox builds is that it never needs more than 4GB ram :P02:53
ali1234which combined with ubuntu's relatively high swappiness value leads to disk cache getting cached in disk cache, and ram cache getting swapped to disk02:54
javispedrocehteh: but it crashes!!02:54
* cehteh once ran the 32bit ff on his 64 bit laptop :P02:54
cehtehin a 'keepalive' loop02:54
javispedrocehteh: I'm sure you can implement the same "bug" on amd64 using ulimit or similar02:54
DocScrutinizernevertheless, did it:
povbotBug 219: submenus do not open, timing issue02:54
javispedropovbot: bad bot!02:54
povbotjavispedro: Error: "bad" is not a valid command.02:54
Hurrianhmm, phone calls work, and i can see the N900's MAC address on my router, and it doesn't ask for lock code02:54
Hurrianmtd1 seems to be OK02:55
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle02:55
javispedroHurrian: what saved you is that nokia keeps using mtd1 and mtd2 for the same in n950/n902:56
Hurrianhmm, so i'm guessing it actually tried to swap on mtd502:56
javispedro...but the rest..02:56
Hurrianor something else02:56
cehteh$@ || exec $0 $@02:56
alteregoIt's all the same device02:56
Hurrianjavispedro : :)02:56
javispedroalterego: he tried to run the harmattan image on n900.02:56
javispedroalterego: initscripts et all.02:57
alteregojavispedro: eeek!02:57
alteregobaby steps please?02:57
ali1234well you never know, sometimes these things just work02:57
alteregoAlso, good luck getting celmo to work ... #justsaying02:57
Hurrianalterego ++02:57
FIQdid it actually work...?02:57
ali1234no :)02:57
Hurrianthe dmesg showed BB5 errors02:57
javispedroalterego: no, it didn't work -- I bet mtdswap scripts corrupted rootfs partition02:57
ali1234was worth a try though02:57
FIQoh, ok then02:57
SpeedEvilalterego: It'd be quite interesting even without cellmo02:58
javispedroHurrian: that is aegis02:58
SpeedEvilAnd I have a n900 with a broken modem anyway :)02:58
Hurriani'm guessing it's because nokia's still not using ofono for Harmattan?02:58
Hurrianor whatever stack CE people use02:58
javispedrobut aegis should work without bb5 (as in qemu) -- it will just boot in open mode.02:58
alteregoSpeedEvil: indeed, I'm not against the idea, but I happen to know that some people that maybe a bit more "in the know" know it's not an easy task02:58
SpeedEvilalterego: Oh - I'm not disagreeing.02:59
SpeedEvilalterego: I woul dbe astonished if it's simple.02:59
alteregocellmo was bought up02:59
Hurrianfun fact: N9 now has initrd.02:59
* javispedro thinks it is probably simple to run swipe mcompositor in meegoCE, just by copying the binary... and most of the apps, in a chroot.02:59
alteregoHurrian: both maemo and harmattan use telepathy ring02:59
DocScrutinizercehteh: ???02:59
alteregoIt's the firmware that'll kill cell mo functionality02:59
Hurriani guess the 2M kernel size limitation was ridiculous even for Nokia03:00
cehtehDocScrutinizer: what?03:00
alteregojavispedro: ++03:00
DocScrutinizercehteh:$@ || exec $0 $@ ???03:00
cehtehkeepalive script03:00
cehteh(simplest version)03:00
cehtehif programm dies then restart :)03:00
cehtehi recommend to add a sleep 1 before restarting, in case it constantly dies03:01
cehtehalso i have a more elaborate version of this script meanwhile taking a few options03:01
DocScrutinizersudo keepalive false will freeze your box03:01
*** the_lord has joined #maemo03:02
FIQthat's a nice way to do it03:02
javispedroalterego: you should know that qgil posted on a TMO thread about extracting harmattan stuff to run on N900, telling them to go ask #meego-arm or f.m.c. I believe this also implicitly says Nokia is not going to pursue copyright aspects.03:02
Hurrianalterego , i dont feel like force flashing N950 CMT image onto N900 ;)03:02
javispedrogiving "green" light in a sense for such a project.03:02
GAN900qgil being the copyright holder and whatnot.03:02
GAN900It's a trap!03:02
ali1234yeah i did wonder about that03:03
GAN900But, seriously, when have they ever pursued copyright issues?03:03
*** Parslee has joined #maemo03:03
Hurrianthat would result in an instant trip to the fbus03:03
GAN900They were encouraging people to mirror firmware releases in '08.03:03
alteregoHurrian: it's the incompatibilities that'll stop it03:04
DocScrutinizerHurrian: you can not force flash N950 cmt fw to N90003:04
HurrianBB5 security and all03:04
Hurrianyeah, had a short stint with unlocking phones a few years ago03:05
ali1234how about if you extract the filesystems and build a new fiasco image from them. that should work right?03:05
ali1234i mean it will flash03:05
ali1234it won't "work"03:05
ali1234but flasher would accept it03:05
SpeedEvilIs the modem actually a different modem?03:05
Hurrianyeah, you can use fiasco-gen to make a UBIFS image for n900 device03:06
javispedroit won't work, but the ebay bidders you're going to sell such a FIASCO image to won't know that!!03:06
alteregoI'd do pieces at a time03:06
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: good question03:06
ali1234shouldn't even need to be ubifs03:06
alteregoget it to boot the rootfs first (minimal scripts) .35 kernel03:06
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: given the fact it's pentaband UMTS id's say it's sufficiently different03:06
* SpeedEvil ponders selling a painted n900 with upgraded firmware on ebay.03:06
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: true.03:06
Hurrianali1234: i feel queasy about running ext4 on a onenand03:07
alteregoBut the whole cellular stack would need to be replaced with meego ofono ..03:07
Hurrianoh, are nokia going to take down the firmware servers?03:07
ali1234it won't fit anyway03:07
Hurrianthat would suxxor03:07
alteregoThe tele ring stuff in harmattan is incompatible with N900 cell mo. From what I've gathered.03:07
Hurrianand btw, Harmattan rootfs compressed with zlib (btrfs) is about 700 MB03:07
Hurrian~3x the size of onenand03:08
Hurrianit's even bigger when compressed with ubifs' lzo03:08
javispedroharmattan uses btrfs?03:08
ali1234no, it uses ext403:08
alteregoHurrian: all runs off eMMC on N95003:08
Hurrianjavispedro, no, just made another sd card with btrfs03:08
javispedroHurrian: ah03:08
Hurrianif the first one worked, better see if this one boots faster03:08
Hurrianunfortunately, the first one made me reflash03:08
javispedroconsidering both meegoCE and harmattan have both independently chosen ext4 over btrfs..03:09
javispedro(note: don't know the details behind the decision, just results)03:09
cehtehbtrfs has still some known issues03:09
Hurriancehteh ++03:09
SpeedEvilext4 on flash is a debatable decision indeed03:09
HurrianENOSPCs everywhere03:09
cehtehenospc is fixed meanwhile03:09
Hurrianuncleanly unmounted BTRFS FSes can KP you when mounted03:09
Hurrianthat is a bitch03:09
Hurriandefinitely not worth the 10 seconds of boot i save on rotating media03:10
FIQext4 w/o journal?03:10
cehtehbut failing to write to the superblock gives a kernel panic and possibly leaves a corrupted fs behind03:10
FIQor is it w/journal?03:10
alteregoYeah, btrfs caused a lot of problems with battery popping03:10
cehtehext4 on the n900 works well for me03:10
FIQbecause journaling FS wouldn't make sense on flash memory..03:10
Hurrianext4 without journal? wtf?03:10
cehtehFIQ: why that?03:11
alteregoext4 without journal is like, well, ext2 :P03:11
cehtehyou need barriers and some gurantees about writes03:11
javispedroalterego: not really03:11
FIQas you never know what order things is written on it?03:11
Hurrianprobably the jnl should be write-balanced03:11
cehtehnah you still get delalloc which is quite cool03:11
Hurrianalso, no one uses full journaling03:11
javispedroalterego: most of the innovation in FSs comes from algorithms, not ondisk data structures, which is why I dislike btrfs.03:12
alteregojavispedro: is that just ext3 then? :)03:12
cehtehFIQ: thats more a firmware thing03:12
cehtehbut not a flash fault per se03:12
javispedroalterego: so ext4 without journaling is like ext2 with extends from a ondisk structures PoV, but uises the ext4 code, so it's faster.03:12
FIQthen i learned something new03:12
alteregojavispedro: ah right03:12
cehtehalterego: extents and delayed allocation make using ext4 favorable alone03:12
alteregoneay, well, g'night folks.03:13
cehtehthen set laptop mode to 600 or such .. and you get very infrequent well ordered writes03:13
alteregoneat ..03:13
javispedrocya alterego03:13
*** Atarii has joined #maemo03:13
Parsleesleep hard03:13
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake03:13
*** Parslee has quit IRC03:16
*** jrayhawk has quit IRC03:18
*** the_lord has quit IRC03:19
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo03:21
*** the_lord has joined #maemo03:21
*** sleepee has joined #maemo03:22
*** sleepee has quit IRC03:23
Hurriananother thing to watch out for on the N950 firmware: pmconfig is SR 300-100003:23
*** the_lord has quit IRC03:23
*** chigga has quit IRC03:24
*** chigga has joined #maemo03:29
*** Parslee has joined #maemo03:29
*** inz has joined #maemo03:30
*** Smily has quit IRC03:32
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo03:33
*** Termana has joined #maemo03:37
Termanagood morning03:37
*** MadViking has joined #maemo03:48
*** kama has quit IRC03:51
*** Malin_ has quit IRC04:03
*** MadViking has quit IRC04:05
*** Guest21386 has joined #maemo04:06
*** MadViking has joined #maemo04:06
*** Guest21386 has quit IRC04:10
*** marthd|log has quit IRC04:12
*** marthd has joined #maemo04:13
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has quit IRC04:17
*** marthd is now known as marthd|log04:23
*** Openfree has quit IRC04:28
*** Openfree has joined #maemo04:30
*** Jucato has quit IRC04:34
*** nox- has quit IRC04:36
*** Jucato has joined #maemo04:42
*** Muelli has quit IRC04:42
*** cpscotti has quit IRC04:45
javispedroaaaaaaargh DocScrutinizer is absolutely right, the Xinput2 stuff has already changed.04:48
*** Atarii has quit IRC04:52
*** Soder has left #maemo04:54
*** Andy80 has quit IRC04:56
SpeedEvilAn ad for 'visual COBOL'04:59
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: and obviously the n9 way is already outdated. before shipping. yay!05:01
MohammadAGN9 way for what?05:02
javispedrofor X11 multitouch events05:02
MohammadAGoh right, that thing has multitouch05:02
MohammadAGthat thing should be used more tbh05:03
MohammadAGlike, if you're gonna take resistive from us, improve the UI to use multitouch05:03
MohammadAGpinch to close an app in task viewer05:03
MohammadAGrather than hold + click05:03
* javispedro feels déjà vu05:04
ieatlintmy biggest criticism with multitouch is that it requires two hands for most things05:04
DocScrutinizer51pinch in taskswitcher is zoom05:04
javispedrozoom in taskswitcher?05:05
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, whole screen, not a thumbnail05:05
MohammadAG3*3 to 2*305:05
DocScrutinizer  you probably should watch this05:08
javispedroaaaaaah, so that's the quick bar.05:09
javispedrota, DocScrutinizer .05:09
javispedro*quick launch bar.05:09
ieatlintit looks like they really did a good job on the UI finally05:13
ieatlinti wonder who designed it05:13
javispedroNokia Maps is still sloooow to launch.05:14
ieatlintlike how long?05:14
SpeedEvilDoes anyone happen to have heard of linux drivers for the nokia DAB radio?05:14
javispedroieatlint: 12 seconds05:15
ieatlintyeah, 12 is too long.  i understand the technical issues that make it take longer than google maps on iphone/android05:15
javispedrofor some reason the Drip app starts up faster.05:15
ieatlintbut the user doesn't care as much05:15
javispedronot drip, lol.05:15
ieatlinti know that if you make a QML app that uses the Map element, it'll load very quickly05:16
MohammadAGjavispedro, cause you're driving when you're expected to load it05:16
ieatlintan issue of loading the map engine/data05:16
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC05:17
javispedrothe presents has lots of problems to swipe despite this being a c-ts.05:17
* javispedro spits remotely on the c-ts.05:17
javispedro*the presenter05:17
Termanajavispedro, the guy accidentally does some things that he didn't mean too and then acts like that was what he meant to do :p05:18
MohammadAGlike in the photos app xD05:19
javispedroor the media app05:19
ieatlinti seem to do that a lot myself05:19
*** marthd|log has quit IRC05:19
javispedroieatlint: ability to do that and pass it off is great skill.05:20
MohammadAGI also love how he demoed speakers with a headset05:20
MohammadAGuse the damn play 360 speaker so we all hear it working05:20
javispedroyou think it works =)05:20
javispedroI'm sure pulseaudio crapped on itself when the drive app showed that non responding dialog05:20
MohammadAGnah, with 1GB of RAM, nothing can go wrong!05:21
ieatlintyes, nothing, ever05:23
javispedrocause it runs multiple copies of harmattan using vmware mobile and it switches randomly to one that works from time to time05:24
Hurrianwith 1GB of ram+ramz, what's with swapping?05:24
Hurriangod damn, nokia05:24
MohammadAGjavispedro, randomly and works? wow05:24
ieatlintthe nfc bluetooth pairing is long overdue05:25
Hurrianit's not running a dalvik vm with sloppy memory collection05:25
javispedroMohammadAG: statistics say that might work.05:25
ieatlintthe nokia 6121 back in 2007 supported it, but there pretty much were no devices05:25
Hurrianieatlint BT NFC ++05:25
Hurrian10 seconds to find and pair devices? lolno05:25
HurrianBT should die already, wifi direct is here to save the day05:25
ieatlintplus typing in bullshit pins and putting devices into sync mode... it's a pain05:25
Parsleenfc is new technology, how can it be overdue?05:26
* javispedro watches the store app steal focus from the presenter05:26
MohammadAGI can pair in 3 seconds05:26
MohammadAGthe dialog takes 10 to open05:26
Hurriannot to mention BT fucks over wifi05:26
ieatlintParslee: the standard for bluetooth pairing was finalized in 200705:26
MohammadAGieatlint, you don't have to type codes with the N90005:26
*** javispedro has left #maemo05:26
ieatlintand nokia had a proprietary implementation of it in 200605:26
MohammadAGThere's EDR or whatever05:26
*** javispedro has joined #maemo05:26
*** chigga has quit IRC05:26
ieatlintso it's old :P05:26
MohammadAGit asks you "is the code the same" on both devices05:27
ieatlintMohammadAG: still annoying :P05:27
MohammadAGand you just click pair05:27
MohammadAGonly works with new devices though05:27
ieatlintnfc bt pairing is also more intuitive05:29
ieatlinthold the device to the phone, done05:29
Hurriangimme my wifi-direct pairing now05:29
Hurriangimme it at N speeds05:30
javispedroand crap the battery05:30
Hurrianjavispedro , point taken05:30
*** maybeHere has joined #maemo05:30
MohammadAGgotta sleep, night05:30
javispedrome too, gnite.05:30
Hurrianbt isnt better for anything other than input devices05:30
ieatlintlooking at wifi-direct... looks pretty meh05:30
*** javispedro has quit IRC05:30
Hurrianat that point, we can stop at BT2.105:30
Hurrianfile transfers? wifi N speeds05:30
Hurriancalls? wifi G speeds05:31
ieatlintnfc pairing makes more sense05:31
Hurriannfc pairing makes so much sense05:31
Hurriannot just because of the pairing speed05:31
Hurriani mean, you put 2 devices together, even a baby can do it05:31
ieatlintit's also versatile pairing, you can create an nfc tag that says "connect to this wifi network with this password, then go download this mp3 file via ftp, and then play it"05:32
*** NIN101 has quit IRC05:32
SpeedEvilI can't see how that could be abused at all.05:32
DocScrutinizerno way05:32
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo05:33
Hurrianspeedevil, prank time05:33
ieatlintSpeedEvil: all implementations have prompts on the device05:33
DocScrutinizercool concept05:33
ieatlintso if you can get your friend to start pressing ok a lot..05:33
SpeedEvilieatlint: Targeted exploits05:33
Hurrianhmm, NFC placemat time ;)05:33
Hurrianone-touch jailbreaks and one-touch rm -rf?05:33
Hurrianthat's great05:33
ieatlinteh, yeah, it's not foolproof05:33
*** kW_ has quit IRC05:34
ieatlintbut for the step i mentioned above, there would be a prompt to pair with the network, a prompt to download the file and a prompt to play it05:34
Hurrian"tap your phone on this pad to get free lady gaga music!"05:34
*** maybeArgh has quit IRC05:34
ieatlintthat's 3 OK buttons they have to ignore05:34
Hurrian"press yes when prompted!"05:34
Hurriantotally foolprof, guise05:34
Hurriansocial engineering IRL05:34
ieatlintthat kind of exploit exists without nfc05:35
Hurrianieatlint: nfc makes it easier05:35
*** kabtoffe has quit IRC05:35
Hurrianinstead of making a user click on cryptic shit05:35
Hurrianthat they dont know what it does05:35
Hurrianthey use nfc, which they know can be used to transfer files n shit05:35
ieatlintnfc is a bad idea to transfer real data05:36
*** Sc0rpius has quit IRC05:36
Hurrianspeedevil - takes a few seconds to focus05:36
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC05:36
ieatlintyou'll typically get from 100kbit to 400kbit (most often 100-200)05:36
Hurrianand you're screwed when you dont have good lighting05:36
DocScrutinizeryou know of that (back when) IRDA billboard poster wall, that told users "hold your device here to join the competition for the holiday", and then made the user's phones send an sms and downloaded all the contacts from his phonebook?05:36
Hurrianas said, nfc for quick setup (hmm, tap here for wifi setup) instead of entering a long-ass code05:37
Hurriangoodbye AOSS05:37
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: yeah, that's awesome05:37
ieatlintthe SMS part exists with nfc (with a user prompt), but the downloading of the phone book doesn't05:38
Hurrianin before bugged NFC software05:38
ieatlintunless you manage get the phone to install an app that steals it05:38
Hurrianit's probably not in the protocol, it's probably in the firmware05:39
ieatlintdefinitely possible05:39
Hurrian"this only affects certain models of android smartphones made by $GENERIC_DROID_MAKER"05:39
ieatlintnah, that's not likely... it would almost definitely be part of the higher nfc stack05:40
Hurrianhmm, OTA seems to make sense now05:40
ieatlintshame the n950 lacks nfc :(05:42
DocScrutinizerI find it a bit funny the N9 has dolby acme whatnot, but only one speaker05:43
*** chigga has joined #maemo05:43
TermanaDocScrutinizer: 2 speakers05:44
Termanaone is hidden05:44
TermanaThat's what a couple of Nokia reps have said anyway05:44
DocScrutinizer[citation needed]05:45
*** kabtoffe has joined #maemo05:46
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:46
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:47
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:47
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:47
*** croppa has joined #maemo05:52
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo05:55
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo05:55
Parsleewill nokia prrovide more than 250 n950s?05:59
ieatlintvia the oss/community handout? unlikely..06:01
SpeedEvilI'd say at a few more meego events isn't unlikely06:02
Parsleehow many people have applied?06:02
SpeedEvilAround 600 for the 25006:03
ieatlintyeah, we all heard about the finland meego meetup handing them out to everyone06:03
ieatlintthere's a meetup out here coming up in mid july... i bet there will be some there, but i doubt they'll hand them to everyone06:04
ParsleeI would like to buy one06:05
ieatlintgood luck with that06:05
SpeedEvilVery unlikely to happen.06:05
*** Hurrian has quit IRC06:05
ieatlintnah, there will be some that go up for sale.. but none legally06:05
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC06:06
ieatlintany n950s on sale are officially stolen property, as nokia is only loaning devices06:06
ieatlintthere is already a seller on ebay claiming he has some that will ship in august06:06
*** Parslee has quit IRC06:11
*** akeripper has joined #maemo06:14
*** jonwil has joined #maemo06:16
*** alehorst has quit IRC06:29
jonwilMust figure out how to distil the useful bits from yesterdays mammoth effort into a wiki entry or something :P06:31
DocScrutinizerback to normal?06:31
jonwilMy phone is working now, need to reinstall apps06:32
DocScrutinizeri c06:32
jonwiland need to restore any settings that were stored on /opt or on rootfs06:32
jonwilI kept my emmc06:32
jonwilbut had to reflash my rootfs after backing it up with maemo06:32
jonwilI think it would also be useful to see about getting usb networking more fully working on the rescue initrd as well as getting a few more tools such as mtd-tools and things for accessing the NAND06:33
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC06:34
jonwilhaving access to the NAND plus say a simple network protocol like netcat, telnet, tftp or whatever would be very helpful for others in the same situation as me06:34
jonwili.e. anyone who just needs to mount their NAND and fix a problem06:34
jonwilright now though I need to finish restoring my phone :)06:34
DocScrutinizerjonwil: in fact rescue-initrd as is is rather useless06:35
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo06:36
*** licensed has joined #maemo06:37
*** licensed has joined #maemo06:37
jonwilI wonder if I need to do anything special to get backupmanager installed06:39
DocScrutinizernah, just install06:40
jonwildo I install though ham or through something else?06:40
DocScrutinizervia HAM!06:40
jonwilok, great06:40
DocScrutinizeroh, and forget the liked wikipage, seems terribly outdated06:41
jonwilthinking about it though, if I had thought more clearly I might have been able to save my rootfs with a bit more work. But given that it was already 2am and I was so damn tired, I sort of gave up, backed it up and reflashed :P06:43
jonwilonce my phone is back to normal and suitable recovery options are installed, I can then go back to figuring out how to get dbus-monitor to display the dbus signals I want it to display :)06:45
jonwilthe ones sent between mce and systemui06:46
jonwilonce I can see those signals, I can do what I was trying to do in the first place and post some documentation on how the tklock systemui plugin works06:47
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC06:47
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo06:48
robbiethe1stOk, guys. I've got a problem I need to troubleshoot.06:48
*** mva_irggu has joined #maemo06:48
SpeedEvilHave you tried turning it off and on again?06:50
*** n900evil has joined #maemo06:51
robbiethe1stI was trying to add terminal support to backupmenu, and loaded the following modules: fbcon, font, bitblit, and softcursor.ko, then added them to my BM startup script. When I shut down maemo afterwards, I saw a console after x shut down. Booting into backupmenu also worked; I saw the console correctly. But, attempting to boot back into maemo resulted in a boot-loop: nokia screen, black, etc.06:52
robbiethe1stNot the 5-dots loop, just nokia screen.06:52
robbiethe1stNow, I have a recovery console open on the device, so I can mess with it.06:53
robbiethe1stBut I don't know what to check. Any pointers for debugging?06:53
ieatlintSpeedEvil: don't mix those two steps up or it really won't work06:53
SpeedEvilrobbiethe1st: Remove all from your script, and add them back one by one?06:54
robbiethe1stI did. I commented them all out, rebooted into BM, then rebooted... same deal.06:54
robbiethe1stcat /proc/bootreason gives 'sw_rst'06:56
robbiethe1stIt seemed a bit to quick for that...06:56
*** n900evil has quit IRC06:56
robbiethe1stUsuallly, it takes ~60 seconds. this takes ~15 pre cycle06:56
robbiethe1st(60 seconds for watchdog reboot)06:56
SpeedEvilThat's about the 'normal' boot time - when it boots but doesn't decide to go on06:57
robbiethe1stYea; I06:57
robbiethe1stI'd expect the 5 dots after that, but instead just reboot06:57
DocScrutinizererr, and you didn't maybe add those *.ko to any /etc/modules or whatever file?06:58
robbiethe1stcould running 'insmod /path/to/module' have put in any permanent entry?06:58
DocScrutinizerdunno, didn't think so06:58
robbiethe1stI didn't manually add them to anything but my BM file.06:59
robbiethe1stand commented them out.06:59
DocScrutinizerhell, cannot be06:59
DocScrutinizerbtw you say you have a console now, so obviously right now they are not commented out06:59
robbiethe1stNo; Not on the phone. I've got a remote console over USB07:00
DocScrutinizermake a backup of your backup ;-D, then completely replace with a former backup07:01
jonwilI think I found the one thing you cant do on a N900 without connecting it to a PC. Updating the Nokia Maps maps :)07:01
robbiethe1st(also, running those modules just gives a 'background' console with basically the kernel log - I haven't been able to get an *interactive* terminal yet)07:01
DocScrutinizermake sure it boots07:01
DocScrutinizercompare backup-of-broken with current working07:01
robbiethe1stYea, I can try that...07:01
*** x29a has quit IRC07:03
robbiethe1stHm... is there a way to enable boot logging to disk?07:03
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo07:06
DocScrutinizerhow would I find the diskusage of all inodes (dirs) and files with links=1, of a dir tree copied with cp -al ?07:07
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: I think syslogd pkg will do that for you, eventuallly copying dmesg buffer to var/log/syslog on start of syslogd07:09
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC07:09
robbiethe1stMight be useful, hm... isn't there a partition on the NAND flash that's for kernel logs?07:09
DocScrutinizernah, only for paniks07:10
robbiethe1stHm, still might be useful07:10
robbiethe1stwhat's the dev file?07:10
DocScrutinizercheck proc/mtd07:10
DocScrutinizer/dev/mtd4 or whatever07:11
*** mva_ has joined #maemo07:12
DocScrutinizer4 is unusaed ;-)07:13
robbiethe1stHm... mtd2 has plenty of logs in it07:14
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC07:14
DocScrutinizercat /dev/mtd2ro | less07:14
DocScrutinizerdunno, maybe it logs all the time07:14
DocScrutinizerdoubt it though, as first thing I saw was a panic register dump ;-P07:15
*** Psi has quit IRC07:16
*** x29a has joined #maemo07:16
*** x29a has joined #maemo07:16
*** mva_ has quit IRC07:17
robbiethe1stthat's the last one in it07:17
robbiethe1st actually, that's better07:18
robbiethe1stSo... provided I have two different system image tar archives, how do I diff them?07:20
DocScrutinizerdunno, is there a tardiff?07:24
DocScrutinizerdiffing tar file to original is simple07:25
DocScrutinizeriirc tar supports that07:25
DocScrutinizerdiffing a tar file against another... no clue. maybe I'm too tired07:26
DocScrutinizerseems teh first one you linked dies in hildon-welcome07:26
DocScrutinizerand starts to nag07:27
DocScrutinizeralready too much ad crap07:27
robbiethe1stnoscript is your friend07:28
DocScrutinizero.O sounds like some weird FF extension that I just kill with disabling js and/or modules in Konqueror07:29
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:31
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo07:31
DocScrutinizero.O sounds like some weird FF extension that I just kill with disabling js and/or modules in Konqueror07:31
* DocScrutinizer waves07:32
robbiethe1stNoScript? Nah, it's more than that. It allows selective disabling/enabling(by site, or 3rd-party/first party etc) of scripts, as well as media files and such07:32
robbiethe1stI use it *mostly* for it's ability to block flash and other applets until I decide to run it(by clicking on the applet)07:32
robbiethe1stblocking ad-scripts is just a plus ;)07:33
DocScrutinizer(tar) mc can navigate archives as if they were plain fs07:35
DocScrutinizercan also compare, but not recursively07:36
DocScrutinizeror can it?07:37
DocScrutinizernah - find but not compare afaik07:38
jonwilI cant find backupmanager in HAM07:39
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo07:39
jonwilwhere is it and whats it called?07:39
jonwilAnd do I need to enable any repos for it?07:39
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC07:40
psycho_oreosit might be in extras-{testing,devel}07:42
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: still awake?07:42
psycho_oreosyou mean the one by robbiethe1st?07:42
jonwilthat one07:43
psycho_oreosyeah I remember seeing it in extras-devel but it might also be in extras-testing. I have extras-devel enabled constantly however07:45
DocScrutinizer51backupmenu devel07:46
DocScrutinizer51just installed the update07:46
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo07:50
*** Milhouse has quit IRC07:55
hiemanshunow people are guessing how long the N950 will be loaned for07:55
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC07:56
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo08:01
*** Milhouse has joined #maemo08:03
*** Milhouse has quit IRC08:03
*** Milhouse has joined #maemo08:03
*** Smily has joined #maemo08:08
*** Smily has quit IRC08:14
*** ced117 has joined #maemo08:19
*** ced117 has quit IRC08:19
*** ced117 has joined #maemo08:19
*** Smily has joined #maemo08:26
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC08:27
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo08:28
jonwilok, my phone is up and running again. YAY.08:31
robbiethe1stHm, looks like there was a problem in the kernel partition. I was *not* able to do a restore as I couldn't mount the MyDocs partition, which I couldn't do because the vfat module wouldn't load. I tried restoring rootfs back to a known-good one, same issue. Flashed the kernel, and I was then able to restore08:34
*** n6pfk has quit IRC08:34
*** n900evil has joined #maemo08:34
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo08:36
robbiethe1st*phew*. Working again.08:39
*** Smily has quit IRC08:40
macmaNrobbiethe1st: um, smth to do with backupmenu?08:42
robbiethe1stYea. I've been trying to get a console working. I managed something of the sort, but it wouldn't boot up into maemo after that, and a whole lot of weird stuff happened08:43
robbiethe1stlooks like some bit got flipped in the kernel partiton08:43
macmaNoh ok08:43
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo08:44
*** klasu__ has quit IRC08:45
GeneralAntillesGoing away party for a friend.08:46
GeneralAntillesJoining the Air Force.08:46
GeneralAntillesSomebody decided to fill my 8 oz Dixie Cup mostly full of Merlot. . . .08:47
*** dvarnes has quit IRC08:47
robbiethe1stNice! I've got ~460 installs of Backupmenu 1.0-RC1 in the last two days.08:48
jonwilNice one, you can count me as one of those installs :)08:48
jonwilI just installed it08:48
jonwila terminal sounds good also btw08:49
jonwilif you can make it happen08:49
robbiethe1stI know. I've been trying off and on for *months*. Unfortunately, stock kernel doesn't have a framebuffer, so no console.08:49
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo08:50
robbiethe1stI just learned that power-kernel, however, has a framebuffer module. Perfect!08:50
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo08:50
jonwilthere is a kernel I used yesterday in fixing things that was basically stock kernel + framebuffer08:51
jonwiljust as long as power-kernel isnt required for backupmenu...08:51
robbiethe1stYea, I've used it too. But I don't really want to force everyone to use that08:51
robbiethe1stNo, it'll be optional08:51
jonwilso it will only be needed for the terminal?08:51
GeneralAntillesrm_you, you get a friends circle and not just MeeGo. :P08:51
GeneralAntillesrm_you, also, my friend has the exact same damn couch.08:52
rm_youforget where i put you :P08:52
GeneralAntilles(the bastard who filled me with wine)08:52
robbiethe1stIn fact, I have to make sure to disable it when the console is *not* running, else it screws up all the text otherwise, overwriting bits of my interface08:52
*** FIQ has quit IRC08:52
jonwilsounds good08:52
* jonwil wishes there were more games for the N900 that suited the N900. Lots of the games in extras dont really suit the N90008:53
jonwillike openttd for example, its more of a desktop game08:53
GeneralAntillesrm_you, circles are too much pressure.08:53
*** FIQ has joined #maemo08:53
GeneralAntillesI can see the advantage to Facebook's "Friends".08:53
* robbiethe1st doesn't like either08:54
* jonwil hates facebook08:54
macmaNlockerproject ftw08:54
robbiethe1stFacebook, well, I'll never visit it voluntarily.08:54
jonwilanyone here got any suggestions for good suitable n900 games to play when on the bus or etc?08:54
robbiethe1stTo be honest, I found some of those old point-and-click adventures on ScummVM to be perfect08:55
robbiethe1stLike, say, Legend of Kyrandia08:55
robbiethe1stGraphics look great, audio works, and it runs ~500mhz08:55
jonwilThings like Space Quest would be too hard with all the typing08:55
GeneralAntillesjonwil, deleted my account a couple years ago.08:55
*** FredrIQ has quit IRC08:55
jonwilbut something like Day Of The Tentacle would be perfect08:56
jonwilI have the game files for that somewhere08:56
jonwiland I believe it runs on scummvm just fine08:56
jonwilwill have to look through the scummvm supported games list for some ideas08:56
GeneralAntillesjonwil, talk to Fanoush if he's still around.08:57
GeneralAntillesPorted ScummVM to OS2007/OS2008.08:57
jonwilAlso, if anyone knows how to get dbus-monitor to dump the signals being sent from mce to systemui (specifically the tklock_open and tklock_close signals) that would be great08:58
*** lcuk has joined #maemo08:58
*** lcuk has quit IRC08:58
*** lcuk has joined #maemo08:58
*** FIQ has quit IRC08:58
jonwilnot signals, method calls08:58
*** FIQ has joined #maemo09:00
jonwilafter what happened when I tried to enable dbus eavesdropping in the hope that would let me listen to them, I dont wanna go messing with dbus again09:01
jonwilThe MCE source code from meego/harmattan helps a little but there are too many changes between Fremantle MCE and Harmattan/MeeGo MCE to give me the whole story09:03
jonwilso unless I get a Fremantle version of tklock.c or the relavent info, getting a dbus dump is the only answer :P09:03
*** FIQ has quit IRC09:12
*** jonwil has quit IRC09:15
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo09:15
rm_youGeneralAntilles: put you in Maemo AND Friends, seeing what happens with you in TWO circles ;P09:23
rm_youyou're the first I've done that way09:23
rm_youi think that this is actually SUPER useful09:23
rm_youno more sharing crap to EVERYONE when I know exactly what subsets of people will care09:23
GAN900They were encouraging people to mirror firmware releases in '08.09:28
*** Openfree has quit IRC09:28
GAN900Damn mistype.09:28
*** Openfree has joined #maemo09:41
*** oscarp has joined #maemo09:49
*** c2pLaY has joined #maemo09:59
*** chigga has quit IRC10:09
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle10:16
*** davyg has joined #maemo10:20
*** FIQ has joined #maemo10:20
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC10:20
*** FIQ has quit IRC10:20
*** cloudyLights has joined #maemo10:21
*** FIQ has joined #maemo10:22
cloudyLightsok, so I emailed qgil , in hope to still get a "n9 dev kit"10:22
ieatlintuse threatening language10:22
ieatlintit worked for me10:23
*** Smily has joined #maemo10:23
macmaNfinish every sentence with ", or else..."10:25
*** rcg has joined #maemo10:26
ieatlintno, i told him "or else i'll switch to windows phone 7"10:26
hiemanshumacmaN: naah, just tell him 'give me a N950, or I'll find you and murder you and take everything own, and leave you to die'10:26
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo10:28
robbiethe1stSwitching to WP7's worse...10:29
*** Smily has quit IRC10:29
ieatlintyeah, the threat worked10:30
*** klasu__ has quit IRC10:34
*** Malin_ has joined #maemo10:38
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo10:40
*** mookie has joined #maemo10:46
* Sicelo makes up his mind to buy N900 after all, at USD49010:46
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo10:46
*** FIQ has quit IRC10:46
*** radic has joined #maemo10:47
jacekowskiSickki: bit late now10:47
dm8tbrSicelo: that sounds expensive, is it new?10:48
Siceloyes dm8tbr10:48
*** mesx has quit IRC10:49
* dm8tbr bought his for 230 €10:49
dm8tbrah, well in monopoly moniez that's also 330, so not that much off and it was used10:50
Siceloi guess so jacekowski. but N9, when it becomes available, will be beyond my means, i guess... so i'll afford it 2 years after it sells first time :P10:50
*** Openfree has quit IRC10:52
hiemanshuSicelo: you mean after it is dead and buried?10:53
hiemanshuI wouldn't mind getting another N900 really though10:53
*** gri has joined #maemo10:54
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC10:55
*** geaaru has joined #maemo10:55
JaffaRST38h: As javispedro said, it was kind of a joke. Not much of a joke, but kind of one.10:57
Siceloi always seem to be using ancient devices... had my N-Gage in 2008 May, Nokia 9300i September 200910:57
hiemanshuI wouldn't mind an N-Gage really10:58
Siceloi bricked the first one.. but bought a second one.. still have it :p10:59
hiemanshuits a pretty decent devvice11:00
Sicelotrue that11:04
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo11:04
RST38hJaffa: Ah11:05
* RST38h - dumb11:05
*** eMHa has quit IRC11:07
*** Openfree has joined #maemo11:10
*** swc|666 has quit IRC11:13
*** Openfree has quit IRC11:13
*** Zahra has joined #maemo11:16
*** Spydemon has joined #maemo11:21
*** vi___ has joined #maemo11:24
keriomy 6120c still works perfectly11:25
kerioand it's still a kickass phone11:25
kerioimo better than the n9511:25
macmaNin finland aftermarket n900 go for 150EURish11:27
kerioi'd buy like 611:28
*** Openfree has joined #maemo11:31
*** The_Fellow has quit IRC11:35
Termana>kickass phone11:36
Termana>I lol'ed11:36
kerioTermana: haters gonna hate11:38
keriowhat's the problem with it?11:38
dm8tbrmy first own phone was a 6150 <311:41
hiemanshufirst phone with my own money was a 5800XM, bought it two days after the release11:42
ieatlintit occurs to me, that thanks to nokia phones, i own more fm radios now than at any other point in my life11:45
*** valdyn has quit IRC11:45
*** eijk has joined #maemo11:46
kerioieatlint: it doesn't make them useful, sadly11:47
ieatlintyeah, especially with the headset requirement :(11:47
kerioyou own a lot of fm tuners11:48
*** eMHa has joined #maemo11:48
ieatlint7, in fact11:48
*** vi___ has quit IRC11:50
ieatlinti wish the phone would let me use the radio without a headset... i fully realize that it acts as an antenna11:50
ieatlintbut i also am very aware that it is not always required if the signal is strong enough11:50
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC11:51
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo11:51
*** valdyn has joined #maemo11:52
*** FireFly|n900 has quit IRC11:55
robbiethe1stieatlint: It's possible, with a 3rd-party app, IIRC11:56
*** BluesLee has joined #maemo12:04
dm8tbrI've seen cut off headphone cable as antenna :)12:04
dm8tbrjust enough to enable reception12:04
*** BluesLee has quit IRC12:05
*** ZZzzZzzz_ has joined #maemo12:07
*** dvarnes has joined #maemo12:10
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo12:10
*** ZZzzZzzz1 has quit IRC12:10
*** liar has joined #maemo12:11
achipaieatlint: if you don't have an antenna (=just the PCB trace and the jack) the signal would have to be REALLY strong12:28
achipaas in "standing next to the radio tower" :)12:28
ieatlinti hang out in unusual places12:31
*** wazd has joined #maemo12:37
*** jonwil has joined #maemo12:38
*** jhb has joined #maemo12:38
* RST38h moos12:39
*** jayne has quit IRC12:42
*** kama has joined #maemo12:45
*** gri has quit IRC12:46
*** gri has joined #maemo12:49
*** till- has quit IRC12:50
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo12:54
*** eijk has quit IRC12:54
*** kW_ has joined #maemo12:54
*** hurbu has joined #maemo12:59
* alterego yawns13:00
* RST38h throws a wrench into alterego's mouth13:01
RST38hSparks! SPARKS!!!13:01
*** BCMM has joined #maemo13:02
BCMMthe apt-worker.real process spawned by HAM is only sometimes nice some of the time. WTF?13:05
infobotBCMM meant: the apt-worker.real process spawned by HAM is only s nice some of the time. WTF?13:06
*** till- has joined #maemo13:12
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC13:12
*** liar has quit IRC13:12
*** piggz has quit IRC13:13
*** liar has joined #maemo13:13
jonwilbah, still cant get dbus-monitor to show me what I want to see :(13:14
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo13:15
*** till- has quit IRC13:16
*** Zahra has quit IRC13:17
*** x29a has quit IRC13:19
* alterego yawns13:19
alteregovme groans13:19
*** x29a has joined #maemo13:19
*** x29a has quit IRC13:19
*** x29a has joined #maemo13:19
alteregoActually, feeling a lot better now after those crumpets.13:19
*** tackat has joined #maemo13:22
JaffaBah, meego-terminal doesn't seem to support multiple instances. Even when launched from the command line, with a custom command, it just brings an existing one to the front.13:22
*** Parslee has joined #maemo13:23
alteregoWell, it's FOSS  Jaffa ;)13:23
alteregoI think that's because of all the prestarting in Harmattan13:24
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo13:24
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC13:24
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo13:24
alteregoYou might not even have to modify the code, just update the .desktop file13:24
alteregoJaffa: could you /etc/prestart.d/nokia.conf ?13:25
Termanaalterego, mmm crumpets sounds nice :p13:25
alteregoAnd /usr/share/wtf/meego-terminal.desktop ;)13:25
alteregoTermana: yup, with a bit of cheese on the top :d13:25
*** BluesLee has joined #maemo13:27
*** Termana_ has joined #maemo13:27
*** BluesLee has quit IRC13:27
*** Termana has quit IRC13:27
*** Termana_ is now known as Termana13:27
Termana:| stupid cat jumped down and took me offline :p13:28
MohammadAGhmm, package in the post13:28
MohammadAGI wonder if that's the N950 :o13:28
TermanaMohammadAG, in your dreams13:28
alteregoOh well, no prestarting there.13:29
alteregoMust have it's own dbus crap13:29
Jaffaalterego: Something to do with MApplicationService:13:31
JaffaMApplicationService: Calling launch() in other application with service : ""13:31
MohammadAGTermana, meh, bills13:31
alteregoJaffa: yeah, that's how prestart works :/13:32
alteregoI think that may be one of my first mods then, multiple terminal windows ;)13:34
*** jonwil has quit IRC13:35
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC13:36
Jaffaalterego: +113:36
Jaffaalterego: Would be nice to have a nice launcher icon for vim, without having to do my own frontend13:37
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC13:37
alteregoI'll have a look at it later, I've already got all the sources and I can test on MeeGo CE13:37
*** BCMM has quit IRC13:40
RST38hBTW, I have got a local OBS install, is there a Harmattan SDK for this kind of install?13:40
hiemanshugah $.9 Amazon bill13:40
RST38hOr is there one for the standard SB setup?13:40
alteregoRST38h: not yet, Harmattan OBS is being worked on though :)13:40
alteregoRST38h: the default is Scratchbox yes13:40
alteregoThere's also a experimental QtSDK with Harmattan support.13:41
*** ^24seven has quit IRC13:41
RST38halterego: Is there one for SB2? ;)))13:42
alteregoNo :P13:42
alteregoI'm really looking forward to harmattan obs13:43
hiemanshuMohammadAG: the package will be from DHL :D13:43
JaffaRST38h: alterego: X-Fade is quite close with the Harmattan in OBS, I think13:44
MohammadAGhiemanshu, I know, already got something from them :P13:45
hiemanshuMohammadAG: what?13:45
alteregoJaffa: yes, that"s what I understand :)13:45
*** ^24seven has joined #maemo13:45
alteregoHopefully within the region of a couple of weeks.13:45
JaffaHopefully within the region of a couple of days.13:46
JaffaHe's already built a package, but the build's full of warnings13:46
alteregoI'm not in a rush13:46
hiemanshuMohammadAG: so I have a problem with multiboot, it wont boot nitdroid, what can I do?13:46
griwill harmattan get a branch (?) on maemo-extras(-devel)?13:46
JaffaBah, moving 500GB using tar between two SATA drives shouldn't be so slow.13:46
Jaffagri: No, it won't work like that.13:46
griI meant an opensource non-ovi repository?13:47
Jaffagri: You'll have "home" projects which are repositories equivalent to (lots of) Extra-devels, and then people can promote from their to a -testing repo. After crowdsourced QA, it'll then be in apps.meego.com13:47
Jaffagri: In that case, yes.13:47
MohammadAGhiemanshu, get rid of nitdroid13:47
hiemanshuMohammadAG: no but android > *13:48
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo13:48
MohammadAGhiemanshu, ...13:48
hiemanshuMohammadAG: just trolling (see /topic :P)13:49
*** vi__ has joined #maemo13:50
vi__where can I find actual info on adding/removing calander events (todo's) via dbus?13:50
vi__There are some subtle referaces to it around the net but no actual concrete info13:51
MohammadAGdbus-monitor --session and add an event13:51
vi__MohammadAG: but the calendar app doesnt create dbus messages for itself...13:52
*** Muelli has joined #maemo13:53
MohammadAGvi__, you sure about that?13:54
vi__or alternativly does anyone know how to use the 'calendarclt' program in a non interactive way?13:54
vi__or maybe it was because I was running dbus-monitor on the wrong computer...13:55
MohammadAGthe calendar UI talks to a backend which runs separately13:55
MohammadAGthe only way to do that is DBus13:55
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo13:56
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC13:56
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo13:56
vi__yeah, I ran montor on the wrong screen session, saw nothing. doh!13:56
vi__I see somthing now13:56
vi__so I see a message:13:59
vi__signal sender=:1.456 -> dest=(null destination) serial=50 path=/com/nokia/calendar;; member=dbChange string "CALENDAR-UI:1:TODO:ADDED:1:76," string "CALENDAR-UI"14:00
*** BluesLee has joined #maemo14:00
vi__which indicates which calander, entry into database and action being performed14:01
vi__however where is the data?14:01
vi__how can I use this in a shell script to add/remove items?14:01
vi__what must I read to learn?14:01
*** jonwil has joined #maemo14:02
*** BluesLee has quit IRC14:04
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC14:07
*** n900evil has quit IRC14:07
vi__MohammadAG: where is the actual data the dbus message refers too?14:07
*** radic has quit IRC14:09
*** ivan4th has joined #maemo14:10
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo14:14
Hurrianso, any brave soul tried running the N9/50 UX on MeeGo CE?14:14
* gri copied the theme but then there was no way to get out of applications since there was no swipe and close button :(14:16
dm8tbri doubt that would work14:16
alteregoYeah, you'd need all the meegotouchhome stuff they have.14:17
MohammadAGit should, copy all needed libs and binaries and it should wor14:17
MohammadAGvi__, not sure, you may have to query the calendar backend for that14:18
*** jrayhawk has joined #maemo14:18
*** trbs has joined #maemo14:19
*** wam has joined #maemo14:19
*** wam has joined #maemo14:19
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC14:19
vi__MohammadAG: how do you mean?14:20
dm8tbrMohammadAG: well all needed libs could be a lot and if one of them conflicts with one in real MeeGo 1.2 then you're screwed14:20
Hurriandm8tbr - it shouldnt14:20
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo14:20
Hurrianunless nokia made stupid shit like patching libs again14:20
alteregoI'm sure it wouldn't be too much trouble to create a small meego arm image and put the harmattan overlay on top of it tbh14:21
alteregoYou'd have to use the meego dialer though14:21
Hurrianhmm, meego with DEB instead of RPM?14:21
alteregoAnd sms etc.14:21
*** jas4711 has joined #maemo14:21
Hurrianin before mass alien-ing14:21
alteregoYou'd need to unpack them14:22
MohammadAGHurrian, dm8tbr afaik MeeGo and Harmattan are ABI compatible14:22
MohammadAG<alterego> I'm sure it wouldn't be too much trouble to create a small meego arm image and put the harmattan overlay on top of it tbh14:22
dm8tbrHurrian: it shouldn't yes, doesn't mean it isn't so14:22
MohammadAGyeah, till Nokia Legal hears about it14:22
vi__the n9/50 really was a genius move, by releasing this essentially worthless dead end piece of shite they have finally managed to remove the most usefull people from maemo onto somthing irrelevant.  Now the n900 can finally be put to death.14:22
Hurrianthey should be ABI-compatible, if nokia's billing it as a meego instance14:23
MohammadAGvi__, bullshit14:23
dm8tbrHurrian: let's hope it is14:23
MohammadAGthe N900 won't die14:23
*** c2pLaY has quit IRC14:23
MohammadAGit is ABI compatible14:23
ParsleeN900 has no competition :(14:24
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: To a degree, yes.14:24
*** APTX has quit IRC14:25
SpeedEvilBut one could argue that the effort going into porting applications to QML/... is 'wasted', looking at it from the maemo side.14:25
Hurrianthe N900 has no competition unless you go aava14:26
alteregoSpeedEvil: why? QML is the commn denominator here.14:26
Hurrianand those aava devices are expensive as ****14:26
alteregoHurrian: those aava devices are worthless14:27
*** APTX has joined #maemo14:27
alteregoThey have utter rubbish battery life ..14:27
Hurrian>Intel x86 CPU14:28
Hurrianabout right14:28
*** Malin_ has quit IRC14:28
alteregoSo the only competition for N900 is N950, which is superior except for no micro sd slot and smaller eMMC mass memory14:28
alteregoSo my N900 will still be in my pocket when I get an N95014:29
Hurrianalterego , not really competition then14:29
HurrianUSB ports can be replaced and upgraded14:29
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo14:29
Hurrianflex cables the same14:29
Hurrianso do batteries14:29
Hurrianif the N900 supports SDXC14:30
Hurrian...still the reigning mobile storage king.14:30
*** rd has joined #maemo14:30
SpeedEvilalterego: I mean that if a dev has been developing not using Qt - then the effort in porting takes their time.14:30
alteregoWell, until the 64G N9 comes out, but still lack of memory card slot is mildly annoying14:31
SpeedEvilAnd I'm not saying that porting to Qt is pointless in the long run - and this'd have happened anyway with the n9 coming round the corner14:31
alteregoSpeedEvil: sure, Coboy is a prime example.14:31
Hurrianalterego, we have 32GB EMMC + 32GB uSD + 256MB OneNAND14:31
alteregoConboy ..14:31
JaffaSpeedEvil: By porting Hermes to QML & Qt, I can run it on Maemo 5, Symbian, MeeGo & Harmattan.14:31
alteregoI have 4 and 8 GB micro sds .. so :)14:31
JaffaThat's a bit of a win.14:31
Hurrianokay, so it's stupid to use onenand for storage, but still14:31
SpeedEvilJaffa: Indeed.14:32
Hurrianspeedevil, Qt is useful when you're coding userland apps14:32
*** Trizt has quit IRC14:32
Hurriansee example above14:32
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo14:32
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC14:32
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo14:32
SpeedEvilJaffa: Or that porting to QML/Qt doesn't have benefits - but I was meaning in the short term.14:32
JaffaAdmittedly, it'd be useful if I could boot into my desktop's disk and this disk shuffling was complete.14:32
HurrianJaffa: looking forward to that Hermes QML rewrite ;)14:32
Hurrianright now, i just finished reflashing, and it hangs on pressing "authenticate"14:33
Hurrianbut that's for another time14:33
*** marthd has joined #maemo14:33
* SpeedEvil is trying to get up the energy to learn more about the n950/n9.14:35
SpeedEvilAnd qt/qml14:35
vi__do any of you chaps know of somthing I can use to add todo's to my calendar through the command line?14:35
ieatlintdo you have any programming knowledge already?14:35
hiemanshuI am going to use QML only for the UI part, all backend code will be in C++, not going to learn JS14:36
TermanaQML is really crap, but really nice at the same time.14:36
* ieatlint agrees with Termana14:37
*** ivan4th has quit IRC14:37
SpeedEvilTermana: yeah - what I've looked at so far looked a bit 'teletubbies do UI' - but still quite cool.14:37
ieatlintit's half-baked14:37
ieatlintand god help you if you want to transfer more than strings or integers between qt and qml14:37
*** dos1 has joined #maemo14:43
*** vi__ has quit IRC14:45
*** Oppo|n900 has quit IRC14:46
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC14:48
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo14:50
*** VDVsx has quit IRC14:51
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo14:51
RST38hMoo VDVsx14:55
alteregoieatlint: why? I transfer all sorts of things, anything registered with QVariant, QObjects etc.14:57
*** VDVsx has quit IRC14:58
rcgTermana: lol.. sounds a bit like javafx14:58
rcgat least that "really crap, but really nice at the same time" part14:58
alteregoAnd I wouldn't say "half baked" there's certainly a lot that can be done with it to make it better, but it works now pretty well imo14:59
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC14:59
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC15:01
*** piggz has joined #maemo15:02
*** Oppo|n900 has joined #maemo15:02
*** rd has quit IRC15:02
*** kwek has joined #maemo15:02
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo15:03
*** Atarii has joined #maemo15:04
*** wam has quit IRC15:05
*** VDVsx has quit IRC15:06
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo15:06
*** Spydemon_ has joined #maemo15:08
*** vi__ has joined #maemo15:09
vi__in this statement:15:09
vi__Insert into Components (CalendarId, ComponentType, Flags, DateStart, DateEnd, Summary, Status, AllDay, Until, CreatedTime, ModifiedTime, Tzid, TzOffset) VALUES (1, 2, -1, 1294095600, -1, 'Test Insert Todo Non valide', 0, -1,0,1294087227,1294144124,'Europe/Paris',3600);15:09
vi__1294095600 represents the datestart15:10
vi__can somone explain the numbers to me?15:10
SpeedEvilseconds after midnight Jan 1 197015:10
vi__which numbers represent minutes/hours etc15:10
SpeedEvilgoogle unix epoch15:10
*** lbt has quit IRC15:11
*** Spydemon has quit IRC15:11
*** rd has joined #maemo15:11
vi__how do I insert values strait into sqlite3 db from bash?15:11
SpeedEvilyou can script 'sqlite3'15:12
vi__I have a plan coming together15:14
vi__however its gonna get ugly15:14
*** valdyn has quit IRC15:18
*** konttori_work has joined #maemo15:21
*** javispedro has joined #maemo15:22
* RST38h heyas javispedro15:22
*** lbt has joined #maemo15:27
*** lbt has joined #maemo15:27
alteregoHey lbt15:30
*** Evanescence has quit IRC15:31
* RST38h automated this cough-inducing Android build to the gills15:35
lbtalterego: hi15:36
*** radic has joined #maemo15:37
*** jayne has joined #maemo15:39
Jaffawoo, lbt15:41
lbthey Jaffa15:41
alteregoSo Jaffa, has the N950 replaced your N900 or N8? /me chuckles.15:42
javispedrowithout google talk?15:42
lbthave any arrived yet?15:42
lbtcommunity ones that is15:42
alteregoYeah, Jaffa had a valid launchpad account already, so .. :)15:43
alteregoHe'sa luck biatch15:43
Jaffaalterego: I'm using it as my primary device instead of my N90015:43
Jaffaalterego: But lack of Google Talk, given it's my primary IM mechanism, is annoyingv15:43
alteregoI thought it had google talk15:43
macmaNJaffa: ssh -> irssi ftw :>15:43
dm8tbrno XMPP? yuck!15:44
dm8tbrmajor yuck!15:44
Jaffaalterego: Apparently later images do; but this is also not indicative of release images.15:44
macmaNwell ssh -> bitlbee + irssi15:44
JaffaAt least says there'll be Twitter in the news feed15:44
petteriirssi-xmpp :)15:44
JaffamacmaN: bitlbee?15:44
lbttrue - early days yet15:44
* dm8tbr uses xmpp on his n900 extensively15:44
macmaNactually, you dont need to ssh even, you can run bitlbee on the phone cant you15:44
* Jaffa wants to use irssi via scren when he's on a proper computer but have some kind of scrollback-aware client and IM notification for messages on Harmattan15:44
macmaNi think it should compile relatively easy15:45
RST38hJaffa: I hope someone will write a gtalk plugin though =)15:45
* dm8tbr is with Jaffa on this one15:45
alteregoI think jukka said he'd enquire about N950 images.15:45
alteregoHarmattan that is.15:45
macmaNwell yeah obv gui is nice, but until theres nothing...15:45
dm8tbralthough I'll use irssi-proxy and connect to it with an irc client on the n950 :)15:45
petteriat least the n9 i tried had XMPP/gtalk15:45
dm8tbrbut XMPP is must have15:45
macmaNdm8tbr: znc ftw15:45
JaffamacmaN: I'm thinking in terms of the N9, when the lack of a keyboard is going to make anything other than very quick things very annoying very quickly15:45
macmaNJaffa: totally true. terminal based stuff wont work at all.15:46
alteregoJaffa: I'll keep the N900 for ssh/screen/irssi15:46
*** till- has joined #maemo15:46
macmaNunless something about human terminal interaction gets completely rethought15:46
macmaNno idea what it would be15:46
Jaffaalterego: Email client is absolutely, completely, frustrating -
alteregoOr N950 if that's an option, what's the battery life like Jaffa ?15:46
*** jonwil has quit IRC15:47
Jaffaalterego: Not really had a chance to test properly yet. Certainly feels better than the N900 did at a similar point in its lifecycle.15:47
macmaNi cant figure out so far when exactly it gets its internet connection up15:47
macmaNlooks like as soon as you unlock screen it connect15:47
macmaNthen disconnects when screen timeouts15:47
JaffamacmaN: Yes, I'd noticed some oddness around there. But I've also SSHed in to it when it's locked15:48
macmaNbackground data settings switch seems to have an effect15:48
macmaNa definite improvement is that it just picks a nearby access point now and doesnt make the user go crazy have to wait and make two selections to always do the same thing15:49
macmaNi.e. connect to internet and the same AP15:49
*** Evanescence has joined #maemo15:51
*** konttori_work has quit IRC15:51
*** marainein has quit IRC15:52
javispedrohah, ARM says that in 18 months Mali will beat Xbox360.15:53
*** Zahra has joined #maemo15:58
ShadowJKmake two selections to always do the same thing? <- huh?15:58
*** Oppo|n900 has quit IRC15:59
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo15:59
*** Guest1513 has joined #maemo16:01
*** javispedro has quit IRC16:03
Guest1513shit fucking weather here and windows too16:04
*** Guest1513 is now known as Itschue16:05
*** cpscotti has joined #maemo16:06
Itschueknows anyone here an help chat for knoppix linux in german ?16:06
unixSnobschroot is hogging 1GB of tmpfs filespace.  How can that be reduced?16:07
unixSnob/etc/schroot/schroot.conf does not appear to specify the size of the tmpfs16:07
*** marainein has joined #maemo16:08
*** jonwil has joined #maemo16:09
Jaffaachipa: Thanks for the Page hint - pretty obvious really :-)16:10
achipaJaffa: yw :)16:11
*** Itschue has quit IRC16:11
*** jonwil_ has joined #maemo16:13
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake16:14
*** radic has quit IRC16:14
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo16:14
*** radic has joined #maemo16:14
*** jonwil has quit IRC16:15
*** jonwil_ is now known as jonwil16:15
*** Parslee has quit IRC16:17
*** Evanescence has quit IRC16:20
*** jonwil_ has joined #maemo16:21
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC16:22
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo16:22
*** jonwil has quit IRC16:23
*** jonwil_ is now known as jonwil16:24
*** javispedro has joined #maemo16:24
*** valdyn has joined #maemo16:26
*** strohi has quit IRC16:26
*** strohi has joined #maemo16:26
*** idont has joined #maemo16:29
javispedrobtw, I selfanswered the question I posted here yesterday: n950/n9 supports up to 10 fingers, or at least, controller supports that.16:30
VDVsxJaffa: you don't have google account option in accounts app ? (re gtalk)16:31
*** MadViking has quit IRC16:32
*** Oppo|n900 has joined #maemo16:32
*** Muelli has quit IRC16:36
*** Oppo|n900 has quit IRC16:36
VDVsx"Chat instant messaging support: Facebook, Skype, Gtalk, and services using sip" ->
*** vi__ has quit IRC16:38
javispedroyeah, I bet it's an oversight for the developer firmware.16:38
jonwilbah, way cant I get dbus-monitor to do what I want :(16:39
hiemanshuwell there should be an update for the N950, I remember someone telling that it has got over 3000 bug fixes since the version it is being shipped with16:39
*** unixSnob has quit IRC16:41
*** boblefrag has joined #maemo16:43
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo16:43
*** Andy80 has quit IRC16:43
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo16:43
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo16:43
VDVsxjavispedro: most probably certifications were not done for that image, most of the stuff that requires them should be out :(16:43
* RST38h cannot believe GTalk needs certifications16:44
*** boblefrag has quit IRC16:44
VDVsxRST38h: ofc, unless you wanna call it something else :P16:44
gricertifications? from nokia? google? testers?16:45
RST38hNah, gtalk is pretty standard stuff, not using anythingproprietary16:45
javispedroyou'd be surprised (for video/audio)16:45
RST38hthat is why I doubt that is the reason :)16:45
RST38hah, that...16:45
idontHey all16:46
idontAnybody knows of a more proper way to detect in what environment (SDK or N900) a shell script is being ran than this:
*** unixSnob has quit IRC16:46
javispedroidont: presence of /scratchbox directory16:46
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo16:46
idontjavispedro: thanks, but I don't see how a shell script which is ran from inside scratchbox, can see the scratchbox folder itself?16:47
javispedroidont: actually, an script inside scratchbox always sees /scratchbox, no matter where scratchbox is installed.16:48
*** unixSnob has quit IRC16:49
idontjavispedro: ah, I didn't knew that. Thanks for the pointer, /scratchbox indeed does exist within scratchbox :)16:49
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo16:49
javispedroyou can also check for /targets16:49
hiemanshuor for /host_fs or something16:50
*** Lorisse has joined #maemo16:50
idontI guess checking for /scratchbox will suffice, thanks for all input :)16:50
jonwil~seen DocScrutinizer16:50
infobotdocscrutinizer is currently on #maemo (9h 19m 35s) #meego (9h 19m 35s) #openmoko (9h 19m 35s) #infobot (9h 19m 35s) #openmoko-cdevel (9h 19m 35s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 9h 12m 46s, last said: 'nah - find but not compare afaik'.16:50
*** rd has quit IRC16:53
*** kama has quit IRC16:54
*** Oppo|n900 has joined #maemo16:55
*** chigga has joined #maemo16:56
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC16:57
*** divan has joined #maemo17:00
JaffaVDVsx: No, only Facebook & SIP17:06
VDVsxJaffa: so that's why you don't have gtalk :)17:07
fralsVDVsx: nice weather now... :P17:08
VDVsxfrals: not here, yesterday was nice :)17:08
fralsVDVsx: arent you in HEL? :P17:09
fralswas sunny and nice until 30min ago and now its pretty dark17:09
griis there some information how to write an accounts plugin? the documentation of accounts-qt only lists classes without any more information17:09
VDVsxfrals: yes :)17:09
JaffaVDVsx: Well, indeed. But it sounds like the N950 will only get an image update after the N9's released.17:09
VDVsxJaffa: that sucks, you just have a few thousand of bugs to deal with then :P17:10
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC17:10
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo17:10
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC17:10
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo17:10
RST38hJaffa:Well, we do not yet know17:11
VDVsxgri: isn't there something at about accounts ?17:11
RST38hJaffa: Theoreticalythere should not be a problem for someone at Mae^H^HMeego Devices to build another binary17:11
RST38hJaffa: Given how unofficial the whole N950 program is17:12
JaffaRST38h: Well, that's what Sampppa_ and konttori were saying; so yes - it's probably _technically_ easy, but it doesn't sound like that's the only factor.17:13
griVDVsx: Well, didn't expect the information is different but indeed, the forum nokia library has some more detailed information :)17:14
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo17:15
jonwilok, I have decided to compare the Harmattan opensource MCE x86 build with the closed nokia-binaries Fremantle SDK x86 build and see if I can identify any differences in the code17:16
jonwili.e. user the Harmattan MCE and its source code to try and re-create some code that matches the fremantle MCE if I can17:16
*** bash` has joined #maemo17:17
griIt only tells me "put your configuration files into /usr/share/accounts", but not how to define the xml files17:17
bash`hi all, can I install maemo in the microSD? I own a N90017:17
bash`I've MeeGo in the eMMC17:17
* javispedro is going to buy one of those livescribe things since the noteslate seems like its never going to ship17:18
RST38hJaffa: I hope there is sufficient mayhem there in order for something like this to happen unnoticed =)17:18
jonwilno you cant install maemo on the microSD17:18
jonwiltoo much is hardcoded to work with the rootfs on NAND17:18
jonwilat least AFAIK17:18
bash`great...meego has this bug and I don't know how to recovery my phone :(17:19
povbotBug 18835: was not found.17:19
*** Atarii has quit IRC17:20
*** Atarii has joined #maemo17:20
javispedroby reflashing17:20
bash`javispedro: I can't!17:20
bash`the battery is too low and the phone doesn't start17:21
jonwilOnly option seems to be to find another phone that you can use to charge the battery17:21
JaffaRST38h: Here's hoping17:21
ShadowJKSo you no longer have working maemo install?17:21
jonwilor find some kind of external battery charger17:21
* javispedro ponders if phone charges while stuck in nolo17:21
bash`jonwil: yes, seems that but I know none :(17:21
javispedroor at least, emergency charges.17:21
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo17:21
*** kama has joined #maemo17:22
ShadowJKjavispedro, emergency charge rate is too low for everything except old PR1.2 kernel17:22
bash`ShadowJK: yep...I was using meego but the battery level is too low now :(17:22
ShadowJKI did notice myself too that meego bme seems to die or something on low battery17:22
bash`with the usb charger the phone start after 10 minutes, then I get into meego for a minute, then the phone dead17:23
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC17:23
ShadowJKwell, and the charger chip wants to charge slow, and is unaware of system load17:23
ShadowJKI'd definitely not try to do anything with usb17:23
ShadowJKI wonder if my charge script works on meego...17:24
bash`ShadowJK: please let me try :)17:24
ShadowJKbut it's such a fucking pain to test anything on meego with no proper terminal17:24
* RST38h imagines some eurocommiteemember saying "Wouldn't it BE NICE if every EU phone could charge over USB?"17:24
ShadowJKYeah, unfortunately running USB chipset seems to consume exactly 100mA17:25
bash`ShadowJK: yes, I want to develop an application then I installed meego in the eMMC, because microSD is a pain17:25
javispedrouSD is pain? wasn't it faster than emmc on the meego kernel?17:25
bash`javispedro: which class?17:26
ShadowJKthey dont have sensible benchmark metrics nor setup17:26
ShadowJKclass is stupid and mostly irrelevant for anything that is not a camera.17:26
javispedroclass doesn't matter much imho.17:26
RST38hdoes class matter for our hw?I thought the controller runs at such a slow freq that it makes classirrelevant =)17:26
bash`javispedro: I was using class 217:26
ShadowJKRST38h, well you can do about 14MByte/s to emmc..17:27
ShadowJKor from, rather.17:27
ShadowJKUnder specific circumstances17:27
*** _NIN has joined #maemo17:28
ShadowJKseek-heavy stuff makes it go more like 1-2meg/second though17:28
ShadowJKbash`, do you have uboot?17:29
bash`ShadowJK: no :(17:29
*** NIN101 has quit IRC17:29
ShadowJKBecause you've got so little time, i can't imagine you'd be able to download anf run stuff in time17:29
javispedroso you're booting meego using flasher -k -l ?17:29
bash`ShadowJK: in fact17:30
bash`javispedro: no, I don't need the flasher17:30
javispedrothen you are using uboot?17:30
bash`the flasher doesn't see the phone, otherwise I reflash it ;)17:30
TermanaAnyone that has manually setup the Harmattan SDK with scratchbox: Do I only need to download arm-psdk-nokiameegoapi-beta-rootstrap.tgz and arm-qemu-rm680_linux_i686.tar.gz from here
javispedrothere's not much more ways to boot meego than uboot or flasher -k -l..17:30
javispedroTermana: no need for arm-qemu, but you need i386-psdk-nokiameegoapi-*17:31
bash`javispedro: uhm, but meego is in the eMMC17:31
bash`javispedro: I overwrited the original vmlinuz17:31
bash`with the meego version17:31
* javispedro sighs17:31
*** s1gk1ll has quit IRC17:31
ShadowJK1) shoot self in foot 2) go on irc 3) ???17:32
bash`maybe a Nokia center?17:32
bash`I need to recharge my battery :P17:32
javispedrobash`: Nokia cares can charge a battery, yes.17:32
ShadowJKeven if one could install maemo on uSD, you'd have no way to boot it17:32
javispedro(depending on size though)17:32
*** kW_ has quit IRC17:33
bash`ShadowJK: how much time to install uboot?17:33
bash`I can download the package, then wait for the next boot17:33
bash`and I've no many choices here...17:34
javispedroyou probably only need to flash stock kernel then let it reboot17:34
bash`javispedro: yes, the problem is I can't17:34
javispedroif you followed emmc instructions well (which is to be seen cause you forgot to read the part that says "It's highly recommended NOT to flash the kernel on your device")17:34
bash`the phone doesn't turn on17:34
ShadowJKto a broken maemo? better than nothing, i guess17:34
javispedromaemo would be safe.17:34
*** licensed has quit IRC17:34
bash`javispedro: where is that part? Anyway I used the de-installer17:35
*** s1gk1ll has joined #maemo17:35
* ShadowJK goes look at running his charge script17:37
ShadowJKwhat de-installer?17:39
*** bash` has quit IRC17:40
*** javispedro has quit IRC17:41
*** bash` has joined #maemo17:41
griIs there a way to disable the virtual keyboard in scratchbox (harmattan)?17:42
bash`ShadowJK: in the wiki eMMC page,17:42
jonwilbtw, a useful tip if the flasher wont see the phone is to remove the battery, plug in the USB, start the flasher (which will say that it cant find a suitable device). Then you insert the battery and the flashing will start straight away17:45
jonwilCertainly works if you are using -l to load a kernel17:45
jonwilAssuming the maemo rootfs on the NAND is fine, you could try using that to -l the maemo kernel17:45
alteregojonwil: I just have it off, start flasher, then plug in usb17:46
alteregoNo need for battery popping17:46
jonwilwhatever works17:46
bash`jonwil: nice, I'll try...can I reflash maemo? Or it takes too many time?17:47
ShadowJKSeems like it for many it doesn't work unless you do the battery out thing17:47
jonwilYou could do that to -l load a maemo kernel17:47
jonwilwhich takes less time than flashing17:47
jonwiland that will boot maemo17:47
jonwilwhich will then let you charge the phone17:47
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC17:47
jonwiland from there you can reflash with whatever you need17:47
alteregoShadowJK: there's no difference having battery out or having device off.17:47
*** nicofs has joined #maemo17:47
alteregoShadowJK: as long as you connect usb _after_ running flasher, the device turns itself on when connected to usb anyway.17:48
alteregoFlashing N900s when you've already got another connected is more fun btw17:48
nicofsHello! I have a problem connecting to ICQ with the default Conversations program... somehow I just can't connect...17:49
alteregoYou have to supply the -u option and hold 'u' to force it into update usb mode.17:49
alteregonicofs: can you run telnet icq hpst and icq port?17:50
alteregoMight be port blocking on your operator17:50
nicofsalterego, i'm using wlan17:50
nicofsotherwise i wouldn't know how to do what you just said...17:51
alteregonicofs: interesting :)17:51
alteregoAnd other machines on the wlan can connect to icq presumably?17:51
* jonwil has found some fun new games for his n90017:51
* alterego is suprised people still use ICQ :)17:52
jonwilonly on Maemo could someone get away with calling a game "Them Bloody Ducks" :P17:52
nicofsalterego, without problems... i installed that additional protocol plugin...17:52
alteregoHrm, well, I don't have ICQ so I can't really help with debugging it, maybe post a thread/seaarch the forums?17:53
nicofsalterego, i can install pidgin and there it works - but i don't want to use pidgin...17:54
alteregoOkay, so must be an issue with the telepathy icq plugin then17:55
* jonwil wishes some of these games had more documentation17:55
alteregoThere are quite a few versions of the extra protocol plugins for "conversations" maybe try another package? (first uninstall the one you've already installed)17:55
alteregoAnd also make sure your details are correct17:56
nicofsalterego, in my program manager, there is only this one plugin...17:57
*** achipa has quit IRC18:00
alteregonicofs: have you tried the xmpp icq gateway?18:00
*** gri has quit IRC18:00
*** Jade has quit IRC18:00
nicofsalterego, how...? (so i guess i didn't)18:01
*** BluesLee has joined #maemo18:01
alteregoHang on18:01
alteregonicofs: I'm guessing you've just got the extras repo?18:02
alteregoNo -testing or -devel?18:02
nicofsi don't think so... let me check...18:03
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo18:03
nicofsalterego, no18:05
alteregoSo you installed the "Extra protocols for conversations and contacts"?18:07
alteregoif so, try the "pidgin protocols plugin for conversations and contacts"18:08
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has joined #maemo18:10
ShadowJKhm, wtf. MeeGO rebooted into Maemo, by itself.18:11
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has quit IRC18:12
ShadowJKmaybe it didn't like having bme killed, or bq battery module removed18:13
*** ketas has quit IRC18:14
*** chigga has quit IRC18:15
*** ketas has joined #maemo18:15
*** achipa has joined #maemo18:16
*** achipa has joined #maemo18:16
*** kW_ has joined #maemo18:17
*** Openfree has quit IRC18:18
*** bash` has quit IRC18:20
nicofsalterego, i installed almost that had pidgin, protocol or conversation in it...18:21
nicofs*everything not almost18:22
*** ckandeler has quit IRC18:25
*** sandst1 has quit IRC18:26
*** xnt14 has quit IRC18:26
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC18:26
*** visz has quit IRC18:26
*** doc|home has quit IRC18:27
ShadowJKOh that fucker, he left right as I finished charging on meego18:27
*** Gorroth has quit IRC18:27
*** rtyler has quit IRC18:27
*** kamui has quit IRC18:27
*** pdz- has joined #maemo18:27
*** Scifig has joined #maemo18:27
*** ckandeler has joined #maemo18:28
*** Oppo|n900 has quit IRC18:28
*** tank-man has quit IRC18:28
*** pdz has quit IRC18:28
*** kamui has joined #maemo18:28
*** fredrin has quit IRC18:28
*** Wamanuz4 has quit IRC18:28
*** rtyler has joined #maemo18:28
*** fredrin has joined #maemo18:28
*** Wamanuz4 has joined #maemo18:28
*** bindi has quit IRC18:28
*** villev has quit IRC18:29
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo18:29
*** villev has joined #maemo18:30
*** visz has joined #maemo18:30
*** sandst1 has joined #maemo18:30
*** tank-man has joined #maemo18:31
*** Openfree has joined #maemo18:31
*** woodong50_______ has quit IRC18:32
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo18:33
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC18:33
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo18:33
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC18:33
*** jonwil_ has joined #maemo18:33
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo18:33
*** kabtoffe has quit IRC18:33
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo18:33
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC18:33
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo18:33
*** BluesLee has quit IRC18:34
*** Openfree has quit IRC18:34
*** jonwil has quit IRC18:34
*** jonwil_ is now known as jonwil18:34
*** bindi has joined #maemo18:35
*** Oppo|n900 has joined #maemo18:36
*** nicofs has quit IRC18:36
*** nicofs has joined #maemo18:36
*** woodong50_______ has quit IRC18:40
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo18:40
*** oscarp has quit IRC18:43
*** woodong50_______ has quit IRC18:43
*** petterw has joined #maemo18:43
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo18:43
*** kW_ has quit IRC18:43
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo18:43
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC18:44
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo18:44
*** xnt14 has joined #maemo18:44
*** xnt14 is now known as Guest8331018:44
*** javispedro has joined #maemo18:46
*** eMHa has quit IRC18:50
*** javispedro has quit IRC18:52
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: mooo, did you see the link I sent?18:53
DocScrutinizererr, what was it? aah yes18:53
hiemanshuah ok18:54
*** gri has joined #maemo18:54
hiemanshuwell I just noticed it :P18:54
DocScrutinizerthe definition of "good use" though is clearly with the board, not with you18:54
DocScrutinizerbasically saying they can revoke any arbitrary time18:55
DocScrutinizerand hell, that's OK with me18:55
hiemanshuwell yes, but loan is a word used to avoid taxes18:56
DocScrutinizerI don't think N950 loaner is an award, it's a responsibility18:56
hiemanshuwell yes, until you are hacking till N9 is a better experience, its all ok18:57
DocScrutinizera responsibility you opted to take, and quim thought you might deliver. He may reconsider any time18:57
DocScrutinizersimple as that18:58
*** kabtoffe has joined #maemo18:58
DocScrutinizerhave you read the mail? >> CONGRATULATIONS! You have been ****tentatively**** accepted in the MeeGo community N950 developer device program.18:59
MohammadAGand I asked what tentatively meant19:00
DocScrutinizer~dict tentatively19:00
infobotDictionary 'tentatively' (2): in a tentative manner; "we agreed tentatively on a dinner date" ;; See {Tempt}.] Of or pertaining to a trial or trials; essaying; experimental. "A slow, tentative manner." --Carlyle. -- {Ten*ta"tive*ly}, adv. [1913 Webster].19:00
jonwilDocScrutinizer, was it you that suggested I should reverse engineer MCE?19:01
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: well, it meant if you aren't a part of nokia or a commercial dev or something19:01
jonwilwhich bits specifically?19:01
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: that is what I assumed19:01
Jartzamy usb port of the n900 broke19:01
DocScrutinizerthe whole friggin mce engine?19:01
DocScrutinizerJartza: OHNOES19:01
MohammadAGI hear mce requires little changes to compile against 2.6.2819:02
Jartzathe whole plug came out while unplugging the charger19:02
ScifigJartza: Hopefully it is still under warranty?19:02
jonwilwell I am planning to take the Harmattan MCE and the Fremantle MCE along with the Harmattan MCE source code and use some reverse engineering19:02
*** cloudyLights has quit IRC19:02
cehtehthe more i hear about broken usb ports the more i think about fixing (epoxy glue) mine before it breaks19:02
jonwiland from there work out whats different between both19:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: exactly, it shouldn't be too hard to backport from meego19:02
jonwili.e. come up with some code that matches the Fremantle MCE19:03
cehtehok after warranty :)19:03
DocScrutinizerjonwil: sounds like a plan19:03
jonwilthere are definatly differences between MCE in harmattan and MCE in fremantle19:03
DocScrutinizercehteh: fix (solder) it19:03
DocScrutinizercehteh: much better than epoxy19:03
jonwilNot sure if I should use harmattan MCE code or meego repo MCE code19:03
cehtehDocScrutinizer: mine isnt broken yet and i dont want to modify anything while warranty19:03
jonwilbut harmattan is easier to get binaries for19:03
cehtehof course i would solder it first19:04
hiemanshuwhat is mce? :/19:04
jonwilmode control entity19:04
jonwilit does important hardware stuff on the phone19:04
jonwillike talking to the vibrator19:04
MohammadAGjonwil, afaik it was someone who knows both of their codes19:04
MohammadAGbasically, get meego mce to compile, run the same libraries19:04
DocScrutinizermode/machine control entity19:04
cehtehand i have to look at the pcb, would it be possible to drill small holes besides the usb port and add some support? dunno if there are wires and space around19:05
jonwilI do know that tklock.c from meego/harmattan mce is different to that from Fremantle mce19:05
MohammadAGthat's a library, not mce itself though19:05
cehtehbut a drop expoxy under and around the port, maybe with *thin* glas or carbon reinforcement wont hurt and should fit19:05
jonwilno, tklock.c is linked into the MCE binary19:06
jonwilits not in one of the ,so files19:06
DocScrutinizercehteh: better use solder!!!19:06
cehtehsolder wont help against the pads coming off19:06
cehtehi'd use that too .. but some other reinforcement if possible too19:07
DocScrutinizercehteh: it WILL:
cehtehwell i am learned plastic/chemical worker :)19:07
cehtehyes soldering like that19:08
DocScrutinizercehteh: then you know the green varnish will spoil all your effort19:08
DocScrutinizeron epoxy / whatever19:08
hiemanshumy usb port is bent to the left a little, I think it might break sometime soon too :(19:08
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: immediately do
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yes I will19:09
cehtehDocScrutinizer: nah, thats clear, i was thinking abut drillin a smal hole left and right and then wrap a epoxy soaked kevlar, glass or carbon strand around19:09
hiemanshuI am really bad at soldering, I'll get it done at a place closeby, for dirt cheap19:09
DocScrutinizercehteh: sounds ok, we don't know about traces in inner layers though -> drilling is DANGEROUS19:10
* hiemanshu loves being in India19:10
cehtehdoesnt matter if it adheres to the pcb then .. it just clamps it dowen19:10
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yes thats my only scare ... i hope someone could make some suggestions where the traces are19:10
DocScrutinizercehteh: first get proper x-ray photos of the whole thing!19:10
cehtehbut looking at the skrew hole beneath and the open space on the other side there might be no traces .. but agrees to be sure this needs some investigation19:11
cehtehdont you want to xray your device? :)19:11
DocScrutinizereeeeeek no19:12
DocScrutinizerI love all my data in flash19:12
DocScrutinizerI love my electret membrane in mic19:12
cehtehnormally xray doesnt erase flash .. but .. heh .. who knows19:12
cehtehwell some dental xray can be very finely targeted19:12
Jartzano warranty in this phone anymore19:13
JartzaI have another scrap n900 which still can be used to charge the battery19:13
DocScrutinizerJartza: get .zip!19:14
* Jaffa 's N900 (according to was in warranty and got replaced by a N8 (last week)19:14
* SpeedEvil ponders trying to find a scrap n900.19:14
* cehteh would like to have a 2nd device for testing and spare part donor19:14
DocScrutinizerall hail to Nokia for that, Jaffa19:14
SpeedEvilI want to try and fix the cellmo and USB on mine19:14
cehtehJaffa: can they do that? .. i wont accept that19:15
RST38hDoc: Want fun?19:15
cehtehif they cant fix it, then money back19:15
MohammadAGthere's a terroristy way of fixing the USB port19:15
DocScrutinizerRST38h: not yet :-)19:15
RST38hDoc: Let us say there is a .c file with some inline THUMB assembly19:15
cehtehsolder a usb wire .. n900 with piggy tail :)19:15
RST38hNothing special, just normal GCC inline assembly19:15
RST38hCompiles fine, at least for a while19:15
SpeedEvilcehteh: or several wires - depending on how screwed up it is19:16
RST38hThen I start getting this: C:\Users\fms\AppData\Local\Temp\ccuCBOFM.s:305: Error: lo register required -- `and r1,r8`19:16
cehtehwell i 'can' do such delicate soldering .. but that doesnt mean i like it19:16
Dibblah... There is actually sufficient space (given some chopping) to fit a mini-USB connector in there.19:16
RST38hWhy would GCC use R8 in THUMB assembly? :)19:16
RST38hYet, it does19:16
DocScrutinizerheh, for parameter passing?19:17
cehtehnormally i am not a hardware guy and i do that rarely only if i must, so i am not very good at it19:17
*** eMHa has joined #maemo19:18
cehtehstill the extra serial port i once added to my newton looks like it belong to it and was desiged by apple :)19:18
DocScrutinizercehteh: I can't see anything that's <20cm away from my eyes anymore19:18
DocScrutinizercehteh: so don't ask me about how pleasant such soldering is19:18
RST38hDoc: yep19:18
DocScrutinizerwell, let's say 15cm19:19
DocScrutinizerstill no good for soldering such stuff - I'm getting to old for that shit (said Clint Eastwood)19:20
jonwilIf I needed my USB port fixed and my device was out of warranty or I didnt want to take it to Nokia to get it replaced with an N8, I would ask around at some mobile phone/gadget repair type shops for somewhere that can do fine soldering and ask them to fix it :)19:20
hiemanshujonwil: well around here if open it yourself, and ask someone to fine solder it, its about half a euro19:22
DocScrutinizerthough the USB ruggedizing as of looks simple enough, even for mediocre iron artists19:22
DocScrutinizerI mean that's a component and joint of ~5mm size, and not really any delicate stuff in vicinity that you could kill19:22
*** Scifig has quit IRC19:23
hiemanshuexcept the camera lens that well you can avoid easily unless you are bling19:23
DocScrutinizercover it!19:23
*** c2pLaY has joined #maemo19:23
DocScrutinizerhighly recommended19:23
Jartzaoh well19:23
DocScrutinizerJartza: your case is more delicate19:24
*** hardaker has joined #maemo19:24
cehtehDocScrutinizer: good that i am shortsighted .. without glasses i cant see anything which is >20cm away :P19:24
JartzaI used to solder modchips to consoles, but not anymore :)19:24
*** hardaker has quit IRC19:24
JartzaI think I'm not going to fix this myself19:24
DocScrutinizerfind a nice good repair shop19:25
Jartzamaybe I'll just pray for n950 :)19:25
DocScrutinizerthat's "changing LED color of your phone" 15 times a day19:25
cehtehDocScrutinizer: but yes .. i am starting to remove glasses to read the n900 screen at least when the browser use small fonts or some map text is small19:25
*** jonwil has quit IRC19:25
cehtehguess a smartphone with a 7" display for 'elderly geeks' would be the next big thing soon :P19:26
DocScrutinizercehteh: I have the advantage my sight is 180% so I can read the 12PT Nokia font in xchat from almost a meter19:26
*** VDVsx has quit IRC19:26
*** hardaker has joined #maemo19:28
cehtehonce worked for me too19:28
DocScrutinizerbut I start to fail reading the ingredients list on some instant noodle soup bags ;-P19:29
DocScrutinizermaybe freudean19:29
*** disco_stu has quit IRC19:30
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo19:31
Jartzaoh well19:34
Jartzafriend of mine looked at the picture of the usb-fix .zip and told me he could do it :)19:35
cehtehwtf .. why does someone zip a .jpg?19:37
*** rascal999 has joined #maemo19:37
rascal999meego htc, possible?19:37
*** licensed has joined #maemo19:39
*** licensed has joined #maemo19:39
RST38hDoc: FIxed it - have to use "l" constraint rather than "r"19:39
JartzaI'm still going to make a backup of my phone with rsync before giving it to my friend :)19:39
*** till- has quit IRC19:42
*** till- has joined #maemo19:47
*** Parslee has joined #maemo19:53
DocScrutinizerRST38h: :-)  (still if you'd use tab expansion I'd get highlighted :-D better chances your posts don't get lost)19:53
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has joined #maemo19:55
DocScrutinizerRST38h: basically it's been you who made me remove my highlight on "doc:" as you used it for Doc_home or what's been his name as well19:55
dm8tbrrascal999: look at the meego wiki, short answer, no19:56
*** JZA has joined #maemo19:56
JZAhi where can I download the Nokia PC suite for N90019:56
JZAI keep getting betalabs on google and or symbian19:57
JZAcan anyone help me find the download page19:57
DocScrutinizerwait a while, somebody will help19:58
*** thmarkus has joined #maemo19:59
hiemanshuJZA: just download the latest nokia ovi suite, works fine with the N900 too19:59
DocScrutinizerJZA: on a general notice - for flashing it's strongly suggested to use linux and flasher-3.5 rather than PC suite19:59
*** thmarkus has left #maemo19:59
DocScrutinizerJZA: also see :19:59
infobothmm... flashing is
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: its easier to use ovi suite for backing up contacts and such (directly goes into windows contacts for me)20:00
*** Termana has quit IRC20:00
DocScrutinizerI agree though there's probably a need for PC suite to sync to outlook ;-)20:00
* hiemanshu doesn't care about/use outlook20:01
JZAthanks thats what I needed. I guess I miss the renaming from Nokia PC Suite to Ovi Suite20:01
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: got NFI what windoze is using for "contacts" today20:02
JZAso just to make sure, i want to share internet from my n900 to my laptop, will the Ovi Suite take care of that?20:02
DocScrutinizerthought they'll never drop outlook(-express)20:02
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: it uses .contact files, but you can change or import it20:02
*** divan has quit IRC20:02
DocScrutinizerJZA: afaik yes20:03
dm8tbrJZA: beware, as ovi is going to be merged back into nokia brand it will probably soon be called nokia suite or something20:03
DocScrutinizerJZA: though not exactly needed for that purpose20:03
*** divan has joined #maemo20:03
DocScrutinizerto windows (and any USB host PC) the N900 should look like an arbitrary USB 3G stick aiui20:04
DocScrutinizerbut OVI suite brings some .inf files or whatever to facilitate that use case20:05
DocScrutinizer(no windoze here, so all this is noob's advice at best)20:06
*** kW_ has joined #maemo20:06
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has quit IRC20:07
hiemanshuJZA: you need the right drivers and it should be fine really, you need ovi suite20:07
*** rascal999 has quit IRC20:08
merlin1991can it be that ssh cuts on the pw lenght?20:11
merlin1991or the n900 does?20:11
merlin1991I can log in if I just put 10 correct and 4 false digits of my 14 digit root pw20:11
*** vi__ has joined #maemo20:12
_NIN anyone knows what might cause this filemanager "bug"? There is nothing mounted in /media/ (except mmc1), the second item for the N900 storage is wrong, says "filesystem not supported" when I touch it. It is somehow related to gnome-vfs, because when I kill it, the second entry disappears.20:14
*** kW_ has quit IRC20:16
merlin1991hey did anyone notice that the root pw on the n900 is only validated on the first 8 digits?20:16
merlin1991I did some testing and I do have a 14 digit pw, but I only need to use 8 to be able to log in over ssh20:17
JZAhiemanshu: what u mean the right drivers, do I need aditional driver download? I am running windows 720:17
hiemanshuJZA: the N900 drivers, and yes you need them on windows 7, installing ovi suite will download the USB drivers for you20:18
JZAah ok20:18
*** Scifig has joined #maemo20:19
*** gri has quit IRC20:19
*** Scifig has quit IRC20:20
*** Scifig has joined #maemo20:20
*** lxp has joined #maemo20:22
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: that's normal for certain crypt() implementations linux is using to build the pw hashes in /etc/passwd (|shadow)20:23
merlin1991isn't that "unsafe" ?20:23
merlin1991brute forcing a pw lenght of 8 vs 14 is quite a HUGE difference afaik20:23
DocScrutinizernot really, but you're free to use other default encryption algo20:24
DocScrutinizersee man 3 crypt20:24
dm8tbralso safe 8 char passwords that are really hard to brute force ar no rocket surgery20:26
*** idont has quit IRC20:27
*** idont has joined #maemo20:27
cehtehdm8tbr: you are wrong meanwhile .. 8 chars are petty easily brute forceable, at worst you need to spend some bucks to hire some gpu power from the cloud20:29
*** FireFly|n900 has joined #maemo20:30
cehtehtop notch gpus brute forcing hashes in no time .. no rainbow tables required anymore, salting wont rescue you20:30
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: >> In the SHA implementation the       entire key is significant (instead of only the first 8 bytes in MD5).20:30
cehtehsome expensive hashing algo like beecrypt may help a bit20:30
merlin1991I'm just chaning from pw based ssh server to key based (if it's supported)20:31
cehtehon the n900, yes works20:31
*** idont has quit IRC20:32
cehtehi only use pk crypto, no passwords20:32
merlin1991now If I'd remember the command to disable the pw20:33
cehtehrm -rf /etc/passwd :P20:33
DocScrutinizer-rf ???20:34
cehtehreally fast20:34
DocScrutinizercehteh: watch out!20:34
merlin1991cehteh: passwd -l root20:34
cehtehdoes the n900 use PAM?20:35
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: keep an open shell login to rot, so you can revert if it fails20:35
dm8tbrcehteh: [ ] you understood my statement20:35
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: yes I did :D20:35
merlin1991besides sudo gainroot should still work20:35
dm8tbrcehteh: try to brute force a n900 via UMTS or WLAN20:35
dm8tbrno 'magic gpu pixie dust' will help you20:35
*** gri has joined #maemo20:35
*** aloisiojr1 has joined #maemo20:36
cehtehdm8tbr: yes you have to acquire the hashes somehow20:36
dm8tbrcehteh: if you acquire the device phyiscally, why care for the hash?20:36
merlin1991ai shit20:36
merlin1991Server refused our key20:36
cehtehwell sometimes there are easier ways .. bugs you know20:36
dm8tbrand I agree if it's the old crypt hash then it's not salted and john will crack it quickly20:37
dm8tbrstill there are significantly more secure passwords than lower case ascii 7bit20:37
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC20:37
cehtehnot only old crypt also more decent ones20:37
cehtehlength matters .. but 8 chars are not secure anymore even with sha1/256/whatever20:38
dm8tbrI'd like you to brute force a proper salted hash with 8 characters where you have no idea about the chars20:38
DocScrutinizerif you can get the N900 passwd file and hashes in there, then you owned the machine already. Absolutely academic debate to wonder how hard it may be to brute-force from hash to passwd20:38
dm8tbrexactly my point, thanks DocScrutinizer20:38
cehtehif gpus are fast enough to go over tens of millions hashes per second then even salting doesnt help .. thats brute force, not rainbow tables20:38
merlin1991cehteh: what did you do to enable public key logon to the n900?20:39
merlin1991anything special?20:39
cehtehsalting only protects against rainbow tables and other plaintext attacs20:39
dm8tbrcehteh: that's because someone will store government secrets on their n900, only protected by the root password.... rrrright20:39
DocScrutinizercehteh: who cares?20:39
*** woodong50_______ has quit IRC20:39
cehtehmerlin1991: you use openssh? not dropbear?20:39
cehtehyou added your key to the authorized_key file?20:40
DocScrutinizercehteh: you CAN NOT brute-force crack a N900 via wlan ssh access20:40
cehtehdouble check that you did that correctly20:40
cehtehcopy paste, spaces, formatting and so on20:41
dm8tbrcehteh: it's authorized_keys with an S20:41
*** kwek has quit IRC20:41
cehtehwhen you cant figure out you can stop the opensshd and start it manually in debugging mode20:41
cehteh .ssh/authorized_keys20:41
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yes you have to acquire the hashes somehow to crack them offline20:42
hiemanshumerlin1991: if you are scared about it, just use denyhosts :P20:42
cehtehbut .. hey .. i saied bugs ..20:42
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo20:42
cehtehmicrob has some nokia plugins for example .. did you audited them?20:42
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: make sure your permissions on $HOME and $HOME/.ssh and $HOME/.ssh/authorized_keys are correct. Otherwise sshd will refuse to sign-in20:43
dm8tbrcehteh: if you want to play academic nonsense. please point me to a publication showing salted md5 or sha* being unsafe for random 8 chars by being brute forceable in <1 year.20:43
cehtehthey starting HAM for example which runs as root .. so if there is a bug/exploit, there is at least some root priv to read passwd there20:43
merlin1991how should they be?20:43
DocScrutinizercehteh: the chance to get root access via a "bug" is way higher than the chance to get the passwd file to decrypt the hashes20:44
cehtehdm8tbr: on our last lug meeting we talked about that .. google for "password cracking gpu" ...20:44
merlin1991cehteh: mind if I query you about the setup?20:44
dm8tbrcehteh: so you don't know one, thanks for confirming all you have is hot air and buzz words. ktxbai20:44
cehtehyes sshd is very pity about correct permissions on all its files20:44
cehtehmerlin1991: ok20:44
*** marthd has quit IRC20:45
*** Scifig has quit IRC20:45
*** marthd_ has joined #maemo20:45
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: WFM:20:45
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ll -d $HOME20:45
DocScrutinizerdrwxr-xr-x 12 root root 2816 2011-06-28 12:11 /root20:45
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ll -d /root/.ssh/20:45
DocScrutinizerdrwx------ 2 root root 304 2010-10-28 02:27 /root/.ssh/20:45
DocScrutinizerfor user root20:46
*** hannesw has joined #maemo20:47
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ll -d /root/.ssh/*20:47
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1115 2007-11-15 21:07 /root/.ssh/authorized_keys20:47
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  810 2010-08-27 06:58 /root/.ssh/known_hosts20:47
cehtehmhm are works .. ok but not for privkey :)20:48
cehtehi have all 60020:48
*** Funnyface2 has joined #maemo20:48
DocScrutinizeryeah, I guess for non-root you need 60020:49
*** mookie has left #maemo20:49
*** Funnyface has quit IRC20:51
DocScrutinizeralso see:20:52
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> ssh-copy-id --help20:52
DocScrutinizerUsage: /usr/bin/ssh-copy-id [-i [identity_file]] [user@]machine20:52
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo20:52
*** Funnyface2 has quit IRC20:54
*** gri has quit IRC20:56
*** Funnyface has quit IRC21:00
*** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo21:01
*** licensed has quit IRC21:01
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: got it running21:05
merlin1991for some reason it didn't like passwd -l root21:05
merlin1991even though according to man that would keep the account live for key auth21:05
merlin1991and does so for example on debian21:06
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo21:08
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo21:15
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC21:28
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo21:28
*** klasu__ has quit IRC21:28
*** JZA has quit IRC21:28
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo21:35
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has joined #maemo21:35
*** licensed has joined #maemo21:38
*** licensed has joined #maemo21:38
*** lxp has quit IRC21:38
*** FireFly|n900 has quit IRC21:39
*** Khertan has quit IRC21:45
*** sq-one has joined #maemo21:49
*** javispedro has joined #maemo21:50
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: o/21:50
*** pabs3 has quit IRC21:50
*** tackat has quit IRC21:52
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has quit IRC21:54
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has joined #maemo21:54
*** Funnyface has quit IRC21:55
*** rd has joined #maemo21:55
*** FireFly|n900 has joined #maemo21:58
*** mesx has joined #maemo21:59
*** runejuhl has joined #maemo22:00
*** FireFly|n900 has quit IRC22:03
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo22:04
*** dailylinux has joined #maemo22:04
*** FireFly|n900 has joined #maemo22:05
*** kW_ has joined #maemo22:10
*** FireFly|n900 has quit IRC22:10
*** user0 has joined #maemo22:14
*** Trizt has joined #maemo22:15
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has quit IRC22:18
*** konttori_work has joined #maemo22:19
*** doc|home has joined #maemo22:22
Maceranybody ever try out an n8?22:24
Macerwas wondering how well symbian was done on it22:25
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC22:26
alteregoI've heard good things about it, though still room for inprovement.22:26
SpeedEvilAsk Jaffa.22:26
alteregoSpeedEvil: hahah22:26
alteregoOr lcuk22:26
*** marthd_ has quit IRC22:28
*** nox- has joined #maemo22:29
Maceris it the same s60 experience from the n95 days?22:29
*** hannesw has quit IRC22:30
Maceror did they pretty it up with some qt eyeplay?22:30
alteregoGod no22:30
alteregoA _lot_ different22:30
alteregoThere are a few familiarities, so you wont feel completely lost, but it is quite different at the same time.22:30
Macerreally? sounds interesting. wouldnt mind finding one for $100 somewhere22:30
user0is that up to date?22:30
*** sq-one has quit IRC22:31
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has joined #maemo22:32
*** sq-one has joined #maemo22:32
*** kW_ has quit IRC22:33
user0alterego : have a look at that link pls22:34
DocScrutinizerask MohammadAG22:36
DocScrutinizeruser0: mompls, checking22:37
DocScrutinizeruser0: yes, up to date22:38
GAN900Is it Monday yet?22:38
cehtehin some places of the world22:39
user0ty DocScrutinizer22:39
*** javispedro has quit IRC22:39
DocScrutinizerGAN900: waiting to ignite the fuse?22:39
DocScrutinizeruser0: yw22:40
alteregoGAN900: why does it matter if it's Monday?22:40
GAN900Waiting for the house to turn into a disco studio when Nokia lights up my inbox.22:40
alteregoWell, it's Monday here first :P22:41
alteregoI'll let you know what happens, besides I think we probably wont be cleared until Wednesday22:41
hiemanshuits 1:12 am here22:42
hiemanshualterego: you are in asia?22:42
hiemanshuor australia22:43
alteregoNo, UK22:43
alteregoBut GAN is in the US22:43
alteregoBesides I'm closer to finish time :P22:43
hiemanshuwell yeah22:43
alteregoThey're +222:44
alteregofrom me22:44
hiemanshuI am +5.322:44
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo22:44
hiemanshuso yes its monday here22:44
GAN900This is silly. I should've had an N950 in my hands last Winter.22:45
alteregohiemanshu: sure but you're way ahead of Finland22:45
alteregoGAN900: pfft, me too! :P22:45
GAN900alterego, yes, finish time indeed.22:45
alteregoI should have an N9 now too!22:45
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC22:45
GAN900The finish line is close.22:45
hiemanshuI should have enough to build a server farm by now :P22:46
dm8tbrthe finnish line? ;)22:46
hiemanshuan obs build service filled with n950s and n9s22:46
GAN900dm8tbr, stay away from it! It'll turn you into a hipster.22:46
hiemanshuor a WP lover :P22:46
*** konttori_work has quit IRC22:47
* dm8tbr doesn't snort finnish lines22:47
*** Zahra has quit IRC22:48
*** FIQ has joined #maemo22:49
*** FIQ has joined #maemo22:49
*** FIQ has joined #maemo22:52
*** florian has joined #maemo22:53
*** gri has joined #maemo22:53
hiemanshucan 720p MP4 movies be played on the N900?22:54
*** lbt has quit IRC22:54
*** crs has quit IRC22:55
*** onen|openBmap has joined #maemo22:55
dm8tbrhiemanshu: h.264 or ASP?22:55
*** habmala has joined #maemo22:55
*** hurbu has quit IRC22:56
dm8tbra device with same SoC will happily do 720p but not h.264 IIRC, but let me check22:56
*** Parslee has quit IRC22:57
hiemanshudm8tbr: not sure, but I have a 720p movie that I got from a friend and wondered if the N900 could play it22:57
*** xd13 has joined #maemo22:57
dm8tbrdon't know about the n900 but the says it could, but I think they clock the 3630 a bit higher22:58
alteregohiemanshu: try playing it.22:58
alteregoOtherwise rescale it22:58
hiemanshualterego: media player says 'unsupported format' and kmplayer is stuck at buffering22:58
*** lbt has joined #maemo22:59
*** lbt has joined #maemo22:59
rcgdid anyone install the harmattan scratchbox along with the fremantle one?22:59
hiemanshurcg: yes, works fine22:59
rcgcool.. did you do it just by using the provided install script?22:59
DocScrutinizerGAN900: I should've had a N9 in my hands (and on my toolbench) 3 months ago :-P22:59
hiemanshurcg: yes22:59
GAN900Stupid Elop, stupid board.23:00
rcghiemanshu: great. thanks!23:00
DocScrutinizerthough OTOH I don't really see why I should do a qualified hw review for Nokia for free, for a device I'm not really excited about23:00
rcghiemanshu: <-- this was what you did, right?23:01
*** petterw has quit IRC23:01
hiemanshurcg: downloaded from and ran admininstall yes23:02
*** petterw has joined #maemo23:03
*** kama has quit IRC23:03
rcghiemanshu: ic, thanks23:03
*** gri has quit IRC23:04
*** dailylinux has quit IRC23:05
*** petterw has quit IRC23:05
*** petterw has joined #maemo23:05
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo23:06
*** Aranel has joined #maemo23:11
*** Aranel has quit IRC23:11
*** Aranel has joined #maemo23:11
GAN900DocScrutinizer, because you got nothin' better to do? :P23:11
jacekowskii just pulled out usb socket out of my N90023:11
*** Parslee has joined #maemo23:12
*** lbt has quit IRC23:13
*** lbt has joined #maemo23:13
*** lbt has joined #maemo23:13
GAN900Gotta love idiotic cost-cutting23:13
nox-indeed :(23:13
nox-apple does non-replaceable batteries, nokia poorly attached usb sockets...23:14
*** user0 has quit IRC23:15
alteregojacekowski: unlucky :( Is it your only N900?23:15
nox-(tho ofc its unclear if thats the reason for the usb socket fail too)23:15
jacekowskialterego: yes23:15
*** sq-one has quit IRC23:16
Parsleei need a broken n900.  What broke?23:16
*** sq-one has joined #maemo23:16
alteregojacekowski: primary phone? :/23:16
jacekowskialterego: yes23:16
jacekowskialterego: i have N95 as well so i'll use that for now23:16
alteregoDo you have an N81023:16
alteregoYou can charge the N900 battery in other handsets if the battery bay is larger than the battery23:17
jacekowskinot really a solution23:17
jacekowskii'm wondering if it'll be easier to get nokia to fix it23:18
jacekowskior just claim on insuranc23:18
alteregoAnd if it has the right connectors, like N81023:18
alteregoYou'll probably get an N8 though ..23:18
jacekowskialterego: why?23:18
alteregojacekowski: Jaffa got an N8 "upgrade" when they decided not to fix it last week.23:18
alteregoI think they may not stock replacements anymore.23:19
alteregoI think I might reinforce my two N900s23:19
jacekowskiso insurance then23:19
jacekowskii'll tell them that i've lost it23:19
alteregoAnd you think your insurance company are more likely to be able to get you a replacement?23:20
jacekowskiwell, they have to23:20
alteregoThey have the same conditions as Nokia "equivalent functionality"23:20
alteregoThey'll probably more likely than Nokia give you an N8, tbh.23:21
*** kama has joined #maemo23:21
*** BluesLee has joined #maemo23:23
cehtehif you argue that you are a maemo developer and need the n900 then a n8 is not equivalent23:24
cehtehno matter what nokia claims23:24
cehtehif they dont have replacement, then money back23:24
* cehteh wonders if one can get a N9 or N950 as replacement :P23:25
cehtehwell its just announced .. when it gets released, considering nokias awesome development speed, then no n900 with any warranty are out in the wild anymore ..23:26
*** javispedro has joined #maemo23:27
Parsleethink the community could get meego or cordia on a next gen phone?23:29
ParsleeIn a couple years something might get built that is significantly better than the N90023:31
javispedronote: _you_ are included in "the community" =)23:31
Choomthe N923:31
*** crs has joined #maemo23:31
*** BluesLee has quit IRC23:31
*** smhar has quit IRC23:33
Jaffajacekowski: The insurance companies usually give you cash, so you could look on eBay. Premiums usually go up for claiming, so a new in box N8 could get you more cash.23:33
JaffaThough they seem to be going quite cheaply on eBay :-(23:33
*** Necc has joined #maemo23:35
*** Soder has joined #maemo23:36
*** Smily has joined #maemo23:37
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC23:38
*** mortenvp has joined #maemo23:38
javispedroI'm pondering that you could probably sue Nokia for that.23:40
javispedrobut. I bet a majority of the populace just keeps quiet when this happens as they assume n8 > n900, so they do no thing. a quick word with nokia care to tell them you think otherwise might get you something..23:41
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC23:41
*** smhar has joined #maemo23:41
*** FireFly|n900 has joined #maemo23:42
ieatlintsue them for giving you what is officially considered a better phone?23:42
ieatlinti thought the frivolous lawsuit thing was an american trait ;)23:42
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo23:43
GAN900Google+: Facebook for people you know online23:43
javispedroit all depends on wheter you think the "replacement" product meets expectations.23:44
DocScrutinizeralterego: jacekowski: time for ruggedizing the USB here :-S23:44
*** shamus has quit IRC23:44
javispedroat least, I'm reading local law and seems that you can force manufacturer to _repair_ your old device if replacement doesn't "work as per specifications of the original product".23:44
*** Atarii has quit IRC23:44
ieatlintjavispedro: actually, i think you'll find the warranty says it depends on whether nokia thinks that23:44
*** Atarii has joined #maemo23:45
*** habmala has quit IRC23:45
*** shamus has joined #maemo23:45
ieatlinti suspect your only hope with trying to take legal action would be nokia finding a device for you so they save on lawyer costs23:45
*** mortenvp has quit IRC23:46
*** mortenvp has joined #maemo23:46
DocScrutinizerany way money back isn't an option, as manufacturer/reseller may pay the "current value" only, means you get ~5% off per month you used the product23:46
javispedroyes, that's also stated here.23:46
Jaffajavispedro: I've sent an email to the address on the letterhead of the note explaining they "hope I enjoy my upgrade"23:47
DocScrutinizeryour best bet is to get an *expensive* "replacement" and sell on ebay to trade in for a "new" N90023:48
ieatlintthe n8 does make a nice camera anyway, hehe23:48
javispedroJaffa: I think that's the best course of action as, being optimist, I believe they think they're doing you a favor (giving you a "better" device vs making you wait and getting a repaired/refurbished n900)23:48
Jaffajavispedro: Aye23:48
JaffaAnyway, bed time23:49
javispedrognite Jaffa.23:49
DocScrutinizernight Jaffa23:49
JaffaMore stress testing of N950 tomorrow ;-)23:49
macmaNJaffa: are you able to sign into nokia account?23:50
macmaNfor maps and them?23:50
*** ced117 has quit IRC23:50
*** mortenvp_ has joined #maemo23:50
*** mortenvp has quit IRC23:50
*** kama has quit IRC23:50
Parsleejavva make a fun youtube someday23:52
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC23:54
*** davyg has quit IRC23:55
*** sq-one has quit IRC23:57
*** shamus has quit IRC23:57
*** rd has quit IRC23:57
*** sq-one has joined #maemo23:57
jacekowskiJaffa: it's insurance that comes with my bank account23:58
jacekowskiJaffa: and it's fixed fee23:58
jacekowskiJaffa: it's £80/claim though23:58
*** shamus has joined #maemo23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!