IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-07-02

konttori_homewhat do you mean, like a reasonable schedule?00:00
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SpeedEvilI think there is enough impetus to preclude that - hopefully.00:00
konttori_homethat you make at least some app before the end of the year?00:00
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konttori_homeor what?00:00
DocScrutinizerkonttori_home: basically yes, there's for sure a certain deadline for N9 apps00:00
JaffaInteresting, can't swipe over virtual keyboard to get out of app00:01
DocScrutinizeresp for things like kernel patches etc00:01
SpeedEvilThe videos showes a swype config screen.00:01
SpeedEvilDoes that exist?00:01
DocScrutinizerJaffa: outch00:02
MohammadAGkonttori_home, any idea if the USB port on the N9 and the kernel are (almost) identical to the ones on the N950?00:02
konttori_homeHmm.. we have fixed around 3000 bugs since w22. So, what you guys have is pretty different from the current reality00:02
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Sampppa_Jaffa: it is for changing keyboard input language00:02
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: It's probably unlikely - somewhat.00:02
konttori_homeMohammadAG, kernel is the same, but I am not sure about USB00:02
Sampppa_Jaffa: try to set more than one input language and swipe over vkb00:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: thanks :-D00:02
JaffaSampppa_: From off the screen should *always* act the same I thought?00:03
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Without looking at it, I'd imagine that it's much more likely the chipset in question has fixed USB phy - so it's more likely the USB is plugged directly into the gaia equivalent00:03
Jaffakonttori_home: That's a good fixing rate00:03
SpeedEvilWhich may imply things for battery charging too.00:03
konttori_homeJaffa, Swipe from within the VKB region was disabled to get as good input experience as possible00:04
konttori_homeyou can still swipe from left or right on the application area00:04
konttori_homeIt was a compromize that just made tons of sense.00:04
MohammadAGkonttori_home, one more question, do you know which parts of the UI are open?00:04
MohammadAGI know the swipe + compositor are closed00:04
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: indeed00:05
Jaffakonttori_home: Indeed, but it's caught me out a few times already. But glad (to be told) it's not a bug00:05
konttori_homeHome is closed partially. Lock screen and system UI components are also closed partially00:05
SpeedEvilBME closed - got a ping on that bug.00:05
Sampppa_Jaffa: also you see that it makes sense if u have more than one input language00:05
JaffaThe left side00:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ??00:06
MohammadAGoh nice, mce segfaulted on my N90000:06
konttori_homeYeah, e.g. home has a library in lgpl that contains the switcher/recents view code and the launcher grid code.00:06
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: lol00:06
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I subscribed to the 'open BME' bug - and got a message saying it was closed for n9 too00:06
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: indicator LED + fcam issue again?00:06
konttori_homethe closed source version then contains a 3 panes and just pulls two of the panels from the open source library and adds the events panel in totally closed source code00:06
JaffaSampppa_: where do you configure input languages\ don't remember seeing it in settings...00:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, nope, it just did it out of the blue after a reboot00:07
konttori_homesame kind of thing for lock screen as well.00:07
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: aah that one, yes00:07
MohammadAGTS and keyboard were disabled, screen was unlocked, so I couldn't do anything but pull the battery00:07
konttori_homeMohammadAG, keep power button pressed for 8 seconds will do a hard power off00:07
Sampppa_Jaffa: settings-> time & date -> text input00:08
MohammadAGkonttori_home, so adding homescreens/views isn't possible without some hacking right? :)00:08
DocScrutinizerkonttori_home: how open is dialer? any changes to the better, compared to fremantle?00:08
MohammadAGkonttori_home, on the N900?00:08
konttori_homeMohammadAG, no.00:08
MohammadAGI thought that was the case for devices without a pullable battery (ala N800:08
Sampppa_Jaffa: and the last setting is multi selection dialog :)00:08
konttori_homeDocScrutinizer, all pieces of code near cellular stack are totally closed00:08
DocScrutinizeras usual00:08
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JaffaSampppa_: Ah, cool. Ta00:09
DocScrutinizerwell, atleast the SMSCB bug got fixed I guess00:09
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konttori_homeEven N9 has pullable battery. Just not very convenient to access. Anyway, N950 also has the support for hard power off. And the battery of it is behid screws, so not conveniently accessible either.00:10
MohammadAGI'm assuming the N9 uses ofono?00:10
SpeedEvilkonttori_home: have you opened the n9 case?00:10
konttori_homeAh, you emant n900. Sorry.00:10
MohammadAGif so, alterego's dialer is a possible replacement00:10
DocScrutinizerkonttori_home: errr what SpeedEvil asked00:10
konttori_homeSpeedEvil, yeah, tons of times when I was changing the display to my device several times a day between different display batches.00:11
DocScrutinizerhaha, sounds like fun00:11
SpeedEvilkonttori_home: Got any spare displays? :)00:12
MohammadAGby pullable battery I meant you can easily pull it out without using any tools :)00:12
konttori_homeIt's locked behind two torx screws, then a bit of force from underneath and it pops up.00:12
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SpeedEvilkonttori_home: So it's not too bad to dissasemble? The display is just I guess flat, behind the curved glas?00:12
SpeedEvilkonttori_home: And is the USB surface-mount or through-hole?00:13
SpeedEvilOh - forgot about the whole NDA thing that possibly applies - nvm.00:13
konttori_homeNono. Display is in the curved glass. It's really quite marvellous what the display guys have done.00:13
SpeedEvilSounds regrettably expensive if it needs fixed.00:13
ShadowJKare the pixels flat or do they curve00:14
konttori_homeThere is no separate glass. It's infused to the display panel itself without any air in there00:14
konttori_homePixels are flat.00:14
SpeedEvilN900 you can get a whole new screen assembly for $80 or so.00:14
MohammadAGI thought it was gorilla glass00:14
ShadowJKso the distance from finger to pixels vary?00:14
JaffaRight, bed time00:14
konttori_homeI think display costs about as much as the rest of the device. It's just a hunch, I've never seen the prices.00:14
SpeedEvilI can't imagine how a screen protector works on a curved screen.00:15
Jaffakonttori_home: Battery saving mode > Automatic with configurable threshold is also a brilliant idea00:15
konttori_homeMohammadAG, yeah, it's some type of glass they use also in aeroplanes00:15
SpeedEvilAlso - will capacitive work with screen protectors?00:15
konttori_homeSpeedEvil, I would not put any. Capacitance is already so-so with so thick glass.00:16
MohammadAGyes, protectors work on the iPhone00:16
MohammadAGspeaking of iPhones I love how the OS handles misclicks00:16
konttori_homeJaffa, I don't see any point to the battery saving mode. Perhaps indeed it it would kick of all connectivity during the night. Good idea.00:16
ShadowJKHow big is the distance between surface you touch, and display layer? On N900 it's huge, N810 less so00:17
SpeedEvilkonttori_home: :/ I scratch up my n900 regularly with keys and stuff - I don't imagine I wouldn't scratch up a n9 if I had one and was actually using it.00:17
konttori_homeiphone has much thinner glass.00:17
MohammadAGbuttons have a radius, clicking that activates the button00:17
konttori_homeSpeedEvil, N900 has plastic screen, N9 has glass. Really scratch proof glass.00:17
MohammadAGShadowJK, why does it matter? the screen isn't bending anyway00:18
cehtehyes gorilla glass is quite good00:18
* ShadowJK hasnt seen scratch proof anything yet00:18
SpeedEvilkonttori_home: One of the occasions I scratched the n900 involved putting a pair of seccaterurs in the same pocket, and bending up and down several hundred times.00:18
Jaffakonttori_home: I assume it reduces clock speeds, turns off/delays some background tasks00:18
cehtehthe n900 screen can easily scratched ..00:18
konttori_homeShadowJK, it's probably close to 2 mm. capacitance layer is yet under the oled.00:18
JaffaBut my BT is still on, so who knows...00:18
Sampppa_Jaffa: but it kicks in only after the battery level is getting low?00:18
JaffaAnyway, bedtime.00:18
ShadowJKMohammadAG, because on n900 the large distance makes for big variation depending on the angle you look at it00:19
Sampppa_Jaffa: it reduces display brightness, disallows background connections etc.00:19
JaffaSampppa_: Yes, mine's just kicked in.00:19
konttori_homeJaffa, the only one it needs to do is to turn of network use. That's probably enough to make a difference00:19
JaffaI see00:19
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grithe n950 has a flat screen and normal glass?00:19
MohammadAGyes, and a TFT screen00:20
konttori_homegri, yeah. something like that.00:20
konttori_homeTFT is better for some things and worse for others. The power consumption of white screens on oled is astounding.00:20
SpeedEvilIn bright sun from one direction, you can turn off the n900 backlight00:21
konttori_homeAnd N950 hsa stripe RGB, whereas N9 has Pentile matrix RGBG00:21
Sampppa_good night fellows o/00:21
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, yep, I do that a lot :)00:22
cehtehthere is still no perfect display :/00:22
konttori_homeN9s display has some quality issues for thin lines of white on black type of cases. that's why you see that all white fonts on dark are always so bolded.00:22
MohammadAGisn't the default theme on the N9 white?00:22
SpeedEvildefault black themes will use way less power00:22
konttori_homeNo. It's a mix between Dark frameworks, light productivity applications and dark meadia applications00:23
GeneralAntillesWhere in the world are the toolbar icons hiding. . . .00:23
konttori_homeYes, creating a dark theme would save a lot of power.00:23
* SpeedEvil wonders how much 'off' with a teeny notification on the screen uses.00:23
ShadowJKwhy havent i seen pentile mentioned anywhere before... isn't it a major readability issue? Especially since vkb steals screen so you'd want to use 8pixel fonts to see stuff..00:23
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yes.00:23
MoonTigerdoes anybody use sqlite on maemo with qt?00:23
SpeedEvilShadowJK: you basically can't use 1 pixel lines simply00:23
hiemanshuMoonTiger: yes?00:23
SpeedEvilAt least without knowing it's a pentile screen.00:24
konttori_homeGeneralAntilles, in /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons if I recall correctly00:24
konttori_homeor perhaps in base00:24
Sampppa_base yes00:24
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, so for text you effectively have half the resolution?00:24
MoonTigerhiemanshu, i am having terrible trouble with it and wonder if you could look see what i might be doing wrong?00:24
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hiemanshuMoonTiger: sure00:24
konttori_homeShadowJK, pentile works really quite well for most of the cases. Just not on white on black case.00:24
MoonTigera minute00:24
ShadowJKhow good is the N9 ts? wavy like droid? :P00:24
ShadowJKkonttori_home, black on white then?00:25
konttori_homeWe have been working a lot with samsung and LG to get the subpixel rendering for pentile to look good.00:25
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Somewhere on that order.00:25
konttori_homeShadowJK, that works quite well.00:25
GeneralAntillesIt's empty here for some reason.00:25
* GeneralAntilles blames weird Qt SDK.00:25
* GeneralAntilles grabs the laptop.00:25
konttori_homeSomething to do with how eye handles the edges in that case.00:25
MoonTigerhiemanshu, i commented out all but the simplest case00:26
konttori_homeShadowJK,  what is ts?00:26
hiemanshuMoonTiger: and what is the problem?00:26
SpeedEvilI wonder how well saying 'screw it - ignore the colours' works for 1 pixel lines.00:26
ShadowJKbah. Cisco seems to have acquired the people who tested touchscreens with robots, and deleted the test results00:26
MoonTigeri keep getting "parameter count mismatch"00:26
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MoonTigeri have tried every possible way to prepare a statement00:26
MoonTigerall give the exact same error00:26
hiemanshuMoonTiger: first off, use one convention for binding values00:27
MohammadAGk time to start writing that status menu plugin for the N950's brightness level00:27
ShadowJKwondring where N9 would be in that collection00:27
MoonTigerhiemanshu, i am ... the code i pasted is just commented down to the minimal and that is the latest incarnation00:27
hiemanshuMoonTiger: where are you opening the db?00:28
MoonTigerthey were all the same method originally but i commented it down and started trying different variations00:28
MoonTigerlines 1 & 200:28
hiemanshuMoonTiger: QSqlDatabase db = QSqlDatabase::addDatabase("QSQLITE"); db.setDatabaseName("data.db"); and then
MoonTigerhiemanshu, i thought you only had to set the type and name once in the app?00:29
MohammadAGgconftool-2 -R /system/osso/dsm/display can someone with an N950 do that and pastebin the output?00:30
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MoonTigerwhich i do in the mainwindow.cpp00:30
hiemanshuMoonTiger: well if you are re-instantiating it, you should redo it right00:30
konttori_homeShadowJK, ah, that's an interesting question. Dunno. Would be great to see.00:30
MoonTigerhiemanshu, i thought that once set the app knew the default database and from then on one had just to reference it?00:31
MoonTigerdid i read that wrong?00:31
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konttori_homeok, font went in now. Time to go to bed! Night all!00:31
hiemanshuNight konttori_home00:32
MohammadAGnight konttori_home00:32
hiemanshuMoonTiger: well if you are using the same one yes00:32
MoonTigeri am using the same database but not the same db object ... the original went out of scope00:32
hiemanshuMoonTiger: well from what I have done so far, you'll have to recreate the db object, so give it a try00:33
MoonTigerhiemanshu, thnx very much ... i will try that right away .... thank you00:33
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DocScrutinizerkonttori_home: you're aware of statum touch technology?00:35
DocScrutinizerstantum even00:35
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DocScrutinizerkonttori_home: just a sugestion ;-)00:35
DocScrutinizerfor the next even more awesome device00:36
SpeedEvilYeah - well - capacitive seems to be the new shiny.00:36
alteregoWe should have a N950 pool00:36
SpeedEvilI wouldn't mind if it could be gotten pressure sensitive.00:36
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alteregoI reckon well get launchpad replies, erm, wednesday00:37
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hiemanshualterego: eh? did you get inside info? or just a guess?00:38
alteregoA guess00:38
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alteregoThere is no inside info :P00:38
pabs3DocScrutinizer: whats the status of that stuff? too expensive for the market so far?00:38
hiemanshualterego: well until then enjoy some music and code :D00:39
DocScrutinizerpabs3: Stantum seems to licence the technology to touchscreen amnufacturers00:39
* pabs3 looks forward to a phone with statum touch, qi screen, lytro camera00:39
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SpeedEvilWith e-ink on the back.00:40
DocScrutinizerwith another touchpanel on the back! :-D00:41
alteregoAnd a pico projector capable of 1920x120000:41
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: with customizable buttons :D00:41
DocScrutinizersou you can operate the device "in transparent mode"00:41
alteregoFrom 12 feet00:41
hiemanshuar 86"00:41
alteregoAnd LTE00:42
hiemanshunaah, 4xLTE00:42
alteregoMaybe they'll finally chuck in HDMI and USB OTG00:42
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hiemanshuwith a KB, scotch taped to the device :D00:43
alteregoAnd a camera that you can take a picture of a dvd or cd and it reads it to internal memory.00:43
DocScrutinizeralterego: only after they finished that case from unobtanium00:43
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alteregoHow can you recycle unobtainium though?00:43
alteregoProbably still be plastic ;)00:43
alteregoI wonder if we'll ever be able to design/print out mobiles with a 3D printer00:44
hiemanshusure, and hang em on your walls :P00:44
alteregoAnd a real dream recorder00:44
MoonTigerhiemanshu, i am more confused now00:44
alteregoLike in red dwarf00:45
hiemanshuMoonTiger: umm, why?00:45
MoonTigeri thought the qsqldatabase was a effectively a singleton00:45
pabs3SpeedEvil: what about the whole phone case is combination e-ink and solar panel?00:45
MoonTigerso in my mainwindow.cpp i do the qsqldatabase db = qsqldatabase::adddatabase() etc etc00:45
pabs3instant case colour changes :)00:45
SpeedEvilpabs3: Well - of course.00:45
MoonTigerthen in an different dialog and class i want to use the database00:45
MoonTigeri cannot do adddatabase() again as i already have the database00:46
MoonTigerall i want is a connection to the default database00:46
MoonTigeradddatabase *creates* a database yes?00:47
hiemanshuit creates a new connection yes00:47
MoonTigeror is that the language qt uses to create a connection to the database?00:47
MoonTigerso basically i do that every time i want to connect and fire off quesries?00:48
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* MoonTiger beats head against desk 00:48
hiemanshuugh wait00:48
hiemanshuyou have me confused now00:48
MoonTigerso ive wasted 2 days because of the language used in the docs *sigh*00:48
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MoonTigeradddatabase(...) is like creating a connection object of type "..."00:49
MoonTigerthen i give it the name00:49
MoonTigerthen i can open it00:49
MoonTigerif it doesnt exist it gets created as an empty database file00:50
MoonTigerthen i can shoot sql to it for execution00:50
MoonTigerwould that be correct?00:50
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MoonTigergod what a way to learn the lesson00:50
hiemanshuMoonTiger: hold on, let me paste you my code00:50
MoonTigerthanks and so sorry to be so dumb00:50
MoonTigerthank you00:50
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MoonTigeri think i got confused because i usually work with big dbms systems like sql server / mysql etc .... sqlite is different00:51
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MoonTigerthen if my connection object goes out of scope and gets freed i have to create it again .... its essesntially a state-less database00:52
* MoonTiger sighs00:53
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MoonTigerhiemanshu, thnx very much ... if you wanted to do an sql query in a different class altogether .... say a dalog box ... you would have to do the adddatabase(...) thing again right?00:55
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MoonTigerwait... you leave the connection open for the whole app?00:57
hiemanshuMoonTiger: yes, I close it when its ending00:57
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MoonTigeroh my god ... so of course it exists throughout the app00:57
hiemanshubecause mine keeps polling data00:57
MoonTigeragain ... i am used to oopening and closing connections as fast as possible00:57
MoonTigerweb stuff is like that00:58
MoonTigerbut if you closed it and had to open it again you would have to do the whole thing again yes?00:58
hiemanshuno you shouldn't have to do it again, you should be able to open it, since the connection is still set00:59
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MoonTigerbut doesnt the connection (db) go out of scope and get destroyed?00:59
hiemanshuoh wait00:59
hiemanshuclose() closes the whole thing yes00:59
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MoonTigerso then repeat the entire adddatabase() thing00:59
MoonTigerthats where i have been going wrong01:00
hiemanshubut you shouldn't have to close it really, use the same object?01:00
MoonTigerwell i am needing to connect from various classes / dialogs01:00
MoonTigerso i cannot reqlly use the same object unless i declare it on the stack and pass it around01:00
hiemanshuthen dont close it, leave it open01:00
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MoonTigeror make the ptr accessible with a get/set01:00
hiemanshuand use QSqlDatabase db = QSqlDatabase::database()01:01
MoonTigerso that line works on an *open* database01:01
MoonTigernot a closed one01:01
MoonTigerwow head meet desk01:01
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MoonTigerthank you so much for your time01:02
MoonTigeri appreciate it01:02
hiemanshuMoonTiger: you want me to explain it in simpler terms?01:02
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MoonTigerhiemanshu, i work with databases all day every day ... i think the nature of sqlite is throwing me off01:02
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MoonTigerand maybe the qt thing01:02
hiemanshuMoonTiger: well not really no, its the same with MySQL or PgSQL01:03
MoonTigerok then maybe explain for dummies?01:03
MoonTiger<--- dummy01:03
hiemanshuMoonTiger: lets say you have a house, if you want to enter the house you use open(), and when you want more people to enter in (new connections) you use database(), and once you close() the gate, you cannot open() the gate again01:04
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hiemanshumakes sense?01:05
MoonTigeri think so .... basically i can open the db and leave it open for the life of the app01:05
MoonTigerthen just get connections to it where i need them01:05
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MoonTigerwow no wonder i couldnt get my code working01:06
MoonTigerthank you01:06
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hiemanshuare the harmattan examples in the SDK?01:18
GeneralAntillesThe Qt SDK, no, the Harmattan Beta SDK, yes.01:20
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: err, where is that?01:20
GeneralAntillesNo idea.01:20
GeneralAntillesI just know there're supposed to be there.01:20
* GeneralAntilles doesn't have a lot of scratchbox experience.01:20
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: ah, there are in the sbox one?01:21
GeneralAntillesBelieve so.01:21
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MoonTigerhiemanshu, still not working *sigh*01:25
MoonTigermay i ask one last question?01:25
hiemanshuMoonTiger: the same thing?01:25
hiemanshuwhat was it again?01:25
MoonTigerparameter count mismatch01:25
MoonTigersay you do the whole QSqlDatabase db = QSqlDatabase::addDatabase("QSQLITE") etc etc in mainwindow01:26
MoonTigerthen somewhere else in your app (say a settings dialog box)01:26
MoonTigeryou need to access the database01:27
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MoonTigeryou cant use the db variable you created in mainwindow01:27
hiemanshuMoonTiger: ok, are you sure you have the tables created?01:27
MoonTigerso how do you access the database01:27
MoonTigerthat bit works01:27
MoonTigera plain sl query is no problem01:27
MoonTigerits the parameterized queries that fil01:27
hiemanshubecause parameter mismatch is usually a db error01:28
hiemanshuMoonTiger: how big the db?01:28
MoonTigerso all the examples i have found including yours are in a single file / class01:28
MoonTigerwhat if you have many diff classes all accessing the db?01:28
MoonTigerthe db is 6144 bytes01:29
MoonTiger3 tables01:29
hiemanshuMoonTiger: upload it somewhere?01:29
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MoonTigerthe database create sql?01:29
hiemanshuthe db01:29
MoonTigerwhat would you look for?01:29
hiemanshuI'll test the code here01:30
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: no examples :/01:30
MoonTiger1 sec01:30
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MoonTigeris the entire project zipped .... its not big01:34
MoonTigerand the code is me learning qt as well so dont be too harsh :/01:34
hiemanshuMoonTiger: and where is the db?01:35
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MoonTigerit gets created in the code when it runs01:35
MoonTigerif it doesnt exist01:35
hiemanshuMoonTiger: which part exactly?01:35
MoonTigermainwindow.cpp ..... chkdatabase()01:36
hiemanshuCREATE TABLE 'accounts', CREATE TABLE feedinfo, learn to be consistent :P01:37
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MoonTigerit was code generated from sqlite3 cmdline01:38
MoonTigerbut point taken ... i should be more observant01:38
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hiemanshuMoonTiger: so you are creating a table with 6 values, and sending it 5 values01:40
MoonTigerwell the autoinc field seems very confusing to me in sqlite301:40
MoonTigerim not sure if i should include it or not01:40
hiemanshuMoonTiger: you need to send a NULL for the auto increment field01:40
MoonTigeri tried that but got the same failure01:40
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MoonTigeror something01:41
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MoonTigervery pdd having to mention autoinc columns in a query01:41
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hiemanshuMoonTiger: it should be NULL, not a QString, just add it to the SQL Query01:42
MoonTigerNULL .. not in quotes or anything?01:42
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hiemanshuno, just NULL01:42
MoonTigerok got it01:43
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MoonTigerexactly the same ... parameter count mismatch01:46
MoonTigerdatabase not open01:46
MoonTigeri got a log message saying database not open at the prepare line01:47
hiemanshuhah see01:47
MoonTigerwait now i try again :)01:47
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MoonTigerok now i dont get database not open but..... still get parameter count mismatch01:48
MoonTigerif i take out the parameterized query and just do string conact it works01:48
MoonTigerits the prepare thing .... i think something is wrong in the version of qt i have01:49
MoonTigerwhich i think is 4.6.201:49
MoonTigerbut i dont even know how to tell that01:49
MoonTigermy qtsdk folder for maemo is 4.6.201:49
hiemanshuMoonTiger: help > about qt creator01:50
MoonTigerwell i have 4.7.4 on my pc01:50
MoonTigerbut the maemo qtsdk folder inside the qtsdk folder says 4.6.201:50
MoonTigerand it builds the maemo version with 4.6.201:50
hiemanshuMoonTiger: try using addBindValue instead of bindValue?01:51
MoonTigeraccording to the output01:51
MoonTigertried that01:51
MoonTigerthats why the code is such a mess right now ... i tried every variation on the theme01:51
MoonTigerpositional vs named01:51
MoonTigeralways "parameter count mismatch"01:51
Oppo|n900what is the videoplayer called in maemo?01:52
hiemanshuMoonTiger: ok try #qt01:52
MoonTigeri even looked at the qsqlquery source code01:52
hiemanshuMoonTiger: because I have to sleep, its 4:30 AM :P01:52
Oppo|n900if I were to laumch it from commandline01:52
MoonTigeri tried there and they say "dont know about maemo"01:52
MoonTigeri tried #qt-maemo but nobody answers01:52
hiemanshuMoonTiger: just ask em saying it a qt question, wont be any different01:52
MoonTigerthanks so much for trying .... i really do appreciate it01:52
hiemanshudont tell them its maemo, say its desktop01:53
MoonTigerthey say it works for them01:53
hiemanshubecause there isnt maemo specific bits in here01:53
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hiemanshuwell it works for me too :P01:53
MoonTigeri should try a desktop verison of just that to test it01:53
hiemanshuyes, do that01:53
MoonTigerdo u use qtcreator?01:53
MoonTigerwhen u build for meamo does the compiler output mention 4.6.2?01:53
MoonTigeror 4.701:54
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hiemanshuhold on01:55
MoonTigerok same as me01:56
MoonTigerok thanks that helps01:56
MoonTigerthen t is my code01:56
MoonTigeri can figure it out eventually01:56
hiemanshuMoonTiger: the current code is the latest one?01:56
hiemanshuthe one I ahve?01:56
hiemanshuQSqlQuery sql(); is wrong :P01:57
MoonTigerwell its been hacked quite a bit01:57
MoonTigeri know01:57
MoonTigeri saw that01:57
MoonTigertha was ahack01:57
MoonTigerit did have a db in it01:57
MoonTigerbut i removed the db and forgot that01:57
MoonTigerbut it want like that before01:57
MoonTigeri think i have missed something in my understanding of sqlite01:57
MoonTigeri think i miust build a desktop verson i can step thru01:58
MoonTigerthen i can move that to maemo01:58
MoonTigercant thank you enough for taking the time to help :)01:58
MoonTigerand honestly i am a very neat and tidy programmer ... been coding for 20yrs now and work with dbs all day every day as well as php / c# / c++ / etc01:59
MoonTigerso the mess you see there is just from me hacking things around to try different versions01:59
hiemanshu20 years? wow02:00
* hiemanshu is barely 2102:00
MoonTigerhehe :)02:00
hiemanshuyou are coding for more time than I can even speak :02:00
MoonTigerbut always learning02:00
hiemanshuyeah, thats one that never changes02:01
MoonTigerand i am very very anal with code .... programmers who work for me have to stick to very strict standards02:01
MoonTigerthanks again02:01
* hiemanshu is off to sleep02:01
MoonTigerme too02:01
MoonTigerlate here02:01
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MohammadAGo/ javispedro02:22
javispedroevening gentlemen02:22
javispedropeople are making beatiful icons02:23
javispedroI quite like the spotify one --
javispedrolooks like perfection02:23
javispedro(might have something to do with my favourite color being green though ;) )02:24
hiemanshujavispedro: made using your script?02:26
javispedromy script just makes the background, remember02:26
javispedro(and chooses the color)02:26
GAN900Karma whore02:26
GAN900Only possible logic02:27
hiemanshujavispedro: well atleast I can use exisiting icons :D02:27
javispedroGAN900: have to say I made it before finding the nokia icon materials =)02:27
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TermanaDesiregood morning02:41
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ieatlintgod, i know i've been working too hard when i read your name as TermanaDesfire02:52
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ScifiDid anyone manage to install both FREMANTLE_* and HARMATTAN_* targets in a single Scratchbox environment?03:02
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MohammadAGjavispedro, and based on his notes, me03:03
javispedro"someone" told me there should now be a transcription of a manual harmattan sbox install somewhere in harmattan-dev03:03
MohammadAGwho's this "dimitri" everyone's talking about on tmo?03:04
javispedrofound it --
javispedrocorrect URL is
javispedroMohammadAG: i believe it's this guy03:05
javispedro(though I've not seen which context you're talking about)03:05
MohammadAGlol wtf03:06
MohammadAGwhat's the original video?03:06
javispedroI might ask for translation on monday if I remember :D03:07
MohammadAGgod youtube comments are lulz03:08
MohammadAG"Processor? HDMI output? Can anyone´╗┐ tell me whether this has those features or not?"03:08
MohammadAGthinking of replying "No, it runs without a processor"03:08
Scifijavispedro: Thanks for the URL. Will try that. I have FREMANTLE targets installed on Ubuntu amd64 (forced i386 install as per wiki). Now the new scratchbox-core version (amd64)  is conflicting with the old version (i386)03:08
javispedroScifi: keep the i386 version03:08
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javispedroScifi: I mean, upgrade, but upgrade to the i386 one.03:09
Scifijavispedro: OK, then just install the HARMATTAN targets on top right?03:09
javispedroif you ever rm -rf /scratchbox, reinstall the amd64 though ;)03:09
javispedroScifi: after upgrading sbox, yes.03:09
MohammadAGI wonder why Nokia made the Jessie's girl ad for the N95003:10
MohammadAGthey never used it03:10
nox-elop killed n950?03:10
javispedrothe bastard03:11
Scifijavispedro: That was my intention. I took a backup (and VBox snapshot) in any case. So now I have scratchbox upgraded to latest amd64 + HARMATTAN targets installed. How do I get Fremantle on this?03:11
MohammadAGand I wonder why they changed the colour, it was macbook-ish at the start afaik03:11
javispedroScifi: so, now follow the fremantle manual install :)03:12
javispedroScifi: you just need to install the packages that you do not have already installed from harmattan, this includes all the toolchains.03:13
javispedroScifi: and unpack the rootstraps03:13
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javispedroMohammadAG: mass public = apple-like. developers = ugly03:15
javispedroj/k ;)03:15
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Scifijavispedro: Error is "Unable to locate package scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7". I noticed that the package repository for fremantle and harmattan are different. Can/Should I use both in sources.list?03:16
MohammadAG the last paragraph is umm, random? :P03:16
javispedroScifi: I don't use debian. I suggest you don't put the older repo in sources.list but get the required apophis packages manually03:17
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Scifijavispedro: ok. Will try to find the .debs then03:18
javispedroMohammadAG: do you remember if Jaffa said anything about emmc size in his n950?03:18
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javispedrowell, anyone :)03:19
MohammadAGjavispedro, 64GBs in old revisions, 16GBs in current ones03:19
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javispedro16 GiB and no sd slot :\03:20
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ScifiMohammagAG: Does N950 (newer ones) have pentaband WCDMA?03:20
javispedrolittle playing area for partitions03:21
MohammadAGScifi, not sure, don't have one :)03:22
MohammadAGcheck FCC03:22
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DocScrutinizerScifi: yes03:26
ScifiDocScrutinizer: Thanks.03:26
ScifiIMO The easiest way for Nokia to get back into US Smartpohone market is shout that they have pentaband phones, Now03:28
ieatlintthat won't help03:29
ieatlintthe average customer here doesn't understand what that means at all03:29
ieatlintand considering that the two gsm/umts carriers in the US are about to become a single carrier, it blurs the explanation even more03:30
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ScifiAhh the merger. If that gets through there is no stopping AT&T. I meant those ppl who hate early termination fees,  increased data charges for discounted phones and crippled OS with no updates might love an Unlocked smartphone which can be used on both AT&T and T-Mobile03:33
ieatlintyeah, that basically where nokia has been targetting... and calling it a niche market is the kindest way to describe who they're targeting03:35
ScifiSomehow I felt they didn't even try to market their products in US. It's like they just gave up without even trying.03:37
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ieatlinteh... the only way for nokia to get into the US market is to play the same game every other manufacturer plays03:37
ieatlintapple is the only one who can dictate terms to carriers here03:38
ieatlintwhich is why i believe the nokia astound (c7) is their only smartphone with wide distribution03:39
ScifiThats painfully true reg Apple. Although I feel happy that AT&T is at the receiving end of the stick sometimes.03:40
ieatlintand for better or worse, the att/tmo merger will happen03:41
ieatlintwhich means that nokia pentaband phone will (in theory) have awesome service, connecting to the 3g towers of both carriers03:42
ScifiYou are right about the carriers though. WP7 won't help Nokia unless they tie-up with carriers which means just suck it up to their conditions03:42
ieatlinti'd guess adopting wp7 is part of their intentions with that.. walk in with a known OS, and they'll have a lot less convincing to do03:43
ScifiI thought AT&T said they will use T-Mobile 3G freq for LTE expansion. So (after x yrs may be) still AT&T will use different 3G freq than Europe/Asia. Isn't that correct?03:43
ieatlinti'm not sure if att has announced such intentions, but both att and tmo's 3g frequencies differ from europe/asia03:44
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ieatlintand yeah, LTE is why the merger will go through... neither carrier is able to put an LTE network together on their own03:45
ScifiT-Mobile's 1700/2100 bands match with Europe/Asia. Thats why N900 etc. was able to use 3G on T-Mobile. AT&T is different though03:48
ieatlintno, tmobile's are different03:48
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ShadowJKeurope is 900 + 2100.03:49
ieatlinttmo-us is IV on that list03:49
ShadowJKtmobile requires both 1700 and 210003:49
ieatlinteurope is 1900/2100 i thought03:50
ieatlintmeh, they're different anyway03:51
ieatlintbut pretty much every 3g phone sold in the US supports the european 3g frequencies, and then either tmobile-us or att frequencies03:51
ieatlintonly nokia has phones that support all 303:51
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ieatlintsee, this is why it's a bad marketing tactic, it's just gets fucking confusing, and to the public at large, it's indecipherable03:52
ieatlint(still, i love the pentaband modem :)03:52
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: WTF?! that's one cuckoo arab :-P03:53
ScifiThats true (confusion). I just dream they'll use the merger to match the frequency bands with rest of the world. But I know that won't happen03:54
ScifiAnd pentaband rocks :)03:54
DocScrutinizeras if there weren't enough really decent USB fix howtos on tmo03:56
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MohammadAGI wonder if them N950s were shipped04:02
Maceris a t6 screwdriver a pretty standard size?04:02
Maceri wanted to open my n900 and try  to fix the usb  port04:03
MohammadAGyes, it's standard04:03
ScifiMohammadAG: Did you get the launchpad confirmation?04:05
Macerok so just a really small screwdriver?04:05
MohammadAGyes, torx head04:05
Macerdo i  need an opening tool to unclip it?04:06
MohammadAGScifi, nope, no one did04:06
MohammadAGMacer, a small - screwdriver will do04:06
MohammadAGbut you need a torx t604:06
Macerhm. is there an actual kit i can get?04:06
Macera repair toolkit online or something?04:07
Maceri need  to replace the  keypad too04:07
Macerjust the plastic keys  part.. it is faded04:07
MohammadAGno need, just get a T6 and a - screwdriver04:07
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Macerthe  screwdriver wont mess  the plastic up ?04:08
Maceror scratch something?04:08
Maceri dont want to gouge the thing04:08
cehtehscrewdriver is for the screws04:08
Macerthey can pry as well04:09
MohammadAGno, there will be enough space to put it under the plastic04:10
MohammadAGactually you don't need the plastic, a nail might be fine04:10
infobotMohammadAG meant: actually you don't need the screwdriver, a nail might be fine04:10
Macerok thanks04:10
Maceri will grab a t6 if i can find one04:10
Macermaybe radio shack04:10
ieatlintassuming qgil is out in california, then it's 6pm on the friday before a holiday weekend04:11
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ieatlintand we're likely all waiting until tuesday for more movement04:11
MacerMohammadAG: thanks04:12
Macerthis g2 is driving me nuts04:12
Maceri want my n900 back!04:12
MacerI will grab the screwdriver. hopefully it is a simple superglue/epoxy  fix04:13
Macerput some cement on it to keep it in place04:13
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DocScrutinizerMacer: forget it04:16
DocScrutinizerneither superglue nor any "simple fix" will make you happy04:16
Scifiieatlint: I hope Quim doesn't have to take care of the launchpad as well. He is already overloaded.04:16
DocScrutinizerfind aomebody who knows to solder, and ideally already has the tools needed04:17
ieatlinti'd guess he has to give a list of names to someone at forum nokia04:17
DocScrutinizerI hope he already did04:18
ieatlintand then a list of everyone's AID to put for the device distribution section of launchpad04:18
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ieatlinti suspect it'll be at least a week before we have them04:19
MohammadAGhow many users were accepted?04:20
DocScrutinizer232 or sth?04:20
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trx69 still waiting for 18 devices04:20
trxi think..04:20
ieatlintyeah, but there is some complication since quim also said several of those accepted ended up getting devices by other means04:20
ieatlintunless i misunderstood04:21
ScifiThe AID is what the Dev Launchpad ppl need i guess. They have all the details with that ID. Week is fine. Some ppl said they had to wait for months to get launchpad confirmation (this was before N950 dev program).04:21
DocScrutinizerI'm feeling sorry for those still without any decision about their case04:21
trxDocScrutinizer like me :|04:22
ieatlintyeah, launchpad got weird last february when it was announced that all launchpad members would get a free e7, and were promised a free wp7 "as soon as they become available"04:22
ieatlintso everyone suddenly joined04:22
ieatlintand they seemed to just ignore all the applications.. they sent me an email in march telling me that if i knew anyone who worked for nokia, to ask them to expidite my application04:23
DocScrutinizerhah, and me did the number with the red nose, and contacted support about it ;-P04:23
ieatlintso after a month of waiting, i get that email, proceed to email a nokia employee, and within 12h i had my launchpad membership04:23
GeneralAntillesUgh, I don't want ot wait out the weekend.04:24
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ieatlinti'm on a business trip all next week, so i'm pretty indifferent, haha :P04:25
DocScrutinizerweekend? isn't there window-virus day, err Independence day ?04:25
ScifiYea monday. So long weekend in US04:26
jonwilTime to finish libsystemui_tklock.so04:26
jonwilI mean cloning libsystemuiplugin_tklock.so04:26
ieatlintyes, but if a nokia employee in finland handles the launchpad side of things, there may be no delay04:26
cehtehDocScrutinizer: is there any way to read out whats the voltage on the usb/charge port by i2c or something like that? reports battery/post voltage regulation right?04:27
* DocScrutinizer makes mental post-it note to find out about fireworks anywhere around, on monday. Probably there are still some US troops left over04:27
DocScrutinizercehteh: right04:27
Scifiieatlint - If they worked efficiently, atleast some of the people in the first batch would have got some confirmation :)04:28
DocScrutinizerbq24150 has a certain notion about what's on USB04:28
ieatlintScifi: this is nokia we're talking about04:28
DocScrutinizer1707 phy has an even finer grained idea about VBUS voltage04:28
DocScrutinizerbut hard to read out ;-)04:29
DocScrutinizertwl4030 gaia also has a VBUS 1/0 flag, rachable via /sys04:29
luke-jrHEY DOC04:30
DocScrutinizercehteh: but no way to actually read out a voltage on a continuous scale04:30
DocScrutinizerhey luke-jr04:31
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: hear of any N900 successors yet?04:31
luke-jr(N950 doesn't count, it's the same generation specs)04:31
DocScrutinizercehteh: what info do you need exactly?04:31
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: nope, nothing new here04:32
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: i get the feeling handheld computing will die with Nokia like it once died with Sharp04:32
luke-jrand it'll be 5 years before the next upgrade04:32
DocScrutinizerI'm fine with 5 years, just will get me a 3rd N900 then04:33
MacerDocScrutinizer: i will see04:33
Macerworst case is  i ebay  a new n90004:33
DocScrutinizerMacer: setting lego blocks on fire is way cheaper a fun action than trying to fix N900 USB the arab terrorist way04:34
ShadowJKI'd say 950 is upgrade, it adresses N900's weakest spot by quadrupling ram04:35
cehtehDocScrutinizer: just VBUS (if thats the voltage while charging)04:35
MacerDocScrutinizer: hahahahaha04:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: there's a sysnode that tells of there's VBUS or not04:35
Macerhad one break on  you?04:35
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: i mean the voltage not if its present or not :)04:35
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DocScrutinizeryou can not get the voltage04:36
cehtehsomehow i guessed that :P04:36
DocScrutinizeryeah, as it's basically meaningless04:36
MacerShadowJK: and  making a  stronger usb  port?04:37
DocScrutinizerthere are certain functional/logical thresholds of VBUS voltage, and those are detectable04:37
ShadowJKusb port probably still sucks04:37
Macerwhat  does the n950  use to  charge? the usb port as well?04:37
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MohammadAGafaik yes, no 2mm charger04:37
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cehteh /sys/power/Efuse mhm .. better dont touch that :)04:38
DocScrutinizerallegedly N9's USB us so rock solid you need to tear off a part of case to break it04:38
DocScrutinizerno info yet about N950 (though who does really care, as it's not a retail device anyway)04:38
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ShadowJKMacer, it'd be typical nokia style. N810: "can we have a bit bigger screen?" -> N900 smaller screen. N900: "can we have stronger usb port?": N9/N950: non replaceable battery to make sure you lose your data once device ejects usb port04:39
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, yes, there are lots of troops left over there, unfortunetaly.04:39
MacerShadowJK: HAHAHA!04:39
Macerthat damn elop!04:39
Scifi"scratchbox-libs:i386 1.0.16 (Multi-Arch: no) is not co-installable with scratchbox-libs:amd64 1.0.26 (Multi-Arch: no) which is currently installed" - Trying to install Harmattan and Fremantle targets on same scratchbox instance. Any inputs?04:40
DocScrutinizerN950 started way before elopocalypse04:40
DocScrutinizerprobably even N9 did04:40
nox-yes but why isnt it sold?  not bc of elop?04:40
nox-most likely04:40
Macerelopocalypse! (tm)04:41
javispedroScifi: remember: one arch only. do not merge i386 with amd64. Also, you already have later version of scratchbox-libs, do not try to install it.04:41
DocScrutinizerno, because carriers rejected it for flimsy kbd mechanism, so the rumour04:41
MacerDocScrutinizer: you should buy  that domain!04:41
MacerDocScrutinizer: screw carriers!04:41
Macersell direct!04:41
Maceri want my  flimsy kbd04:41
Maceri HATE vkbds04:42
Scifijavispedro: So I guess I should just install Harmattan (i386) versions manually then.04:42
DocScrutinizermaybe it's just too expensive?04:42
javispedroScifi: you already have amd6404:42
javispedroScifi: so you will need to find amd64 packages of the fremantle toolchains04:42
ScifiYes, but FREMANTLE did not come with amd6404:42
ScifiUnless I am missing something04:43
DocScrutinizerith all the USB loose N900 well might have been a deficitary business for nokia04:43
javispedroScifi: check there04:43
nox-DocScrutinizer, my guess is elop wants wp7, and only has to sell _one_ meego device, so he killed the other04:43
javispedroScifi: seemingly you at least have fremantle toolchain (cs2007)04:43
DocScrutinizerwith N950 flimsy kbd they might have same concerns04:43
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MohammadAGdpkg -r scratchbox-libs:i386 would work to uninstall it btw04:43
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MacerDocScrutinizer: ever use an htc vision?04:44
Macerthe whole phone is "flimsy"04:44
MohammadAGif the N950 is the same as the N97, it's actually pretty good04:44
Macertmob  still sold it  for $50004:44
MohammadAGtill it meets a street04:44
Scifijavispedro: Aha. I was looking here, Off to another round of installations04:45
MohammadAGI actually liked the feel of the N97 more than the N90004:45
DocScrutinizerone thing is clear: sit on a N950 with kbd open -> complete damage04:45
MohammadAGfelt more natural holding it04:45
MohammadAGyes, true that04:46
cehtehi doubt that you should sit on the n900 with slide open04:46
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MohammadAGhey, shit happens :p04:46
ShadowJKor closed04:46
DocScrutinizersore, but you got a fair chance it will survive04:46
cehtehmaybe it slides in :)04:46
MohammadAGhaving the N97 opened also looked cooler04:47
MohammadAGyou could have a live feed and you don't have to move your head04:47
MohammadAGthe N97 had some major flaws though04:47
MohammadAGbattery cover was creaky04:47
MohammadAGslider scratched the camera04:48
cehtehthis n900 display feels a bit fragile to pressure, i dint tried but well its plastic and then the thin display glass, no more protection04:48
MohammadAGcamera slider made a blue flare (worse than the N900's)04:48
cehtehi think my outer plastic (touchscreen) a slightly dented already, only noticeable when you look at a flat angle04:48
MohammadAGone drop and the slider would move right/left from the bottom area04:49
DocScrutinizermeh, there's the LCD backside with a solid acrylic lightspreader on steel04:49
DocScrutinizerthen a 0.1mm LCD with spacers layer, then the glass04:49
MohammadAGand last but not least, the black on the back of the sliding mech was actually rubber, after some time (and skin shit) it disolves away04:49
DocScrutinizerwon't break THAT easily04:49
MohammadAGso the screen backlight starts leaking from the back04:49
cehtehDocScrutinizer: good to know, but i try not to test that :P04:50
MohammadAGMy N900's screen has two brighter spots now04:50
DocScrutinizerI ripped off some LCD panels off the Freerunner PCB, they were glued with nasty sticky04:50
MohammadAGas well as that nice gray line at the bottom04:50
DocScrutinizerthey survived04:50
nox-my n900's kbd has most keys' paint come off :/04:50
MohammadAGkb is still perfect for me04:51
cehtehdisassembling tft's into their components and then reassemling needs some luck04:51
nox-i guess it doesnt help that i sometimes ssh from the phone... :)04:51
MohammadAGThe chrome-painted border also lost its paint on the old battery cover04:51
DocScrutinizernox-: cut your nails more often ;-P04:51
nox-haha no04:51
MohammadAGI'm typing this from the phone04:51
nox-im not typing with nails...04:52
MohammadAGoh yeah, I remember something with the N9704:52
MohammadAGI went on a week's holiday, with only an N97 on me04:52
MohammadAGbattery life was awesome, lasted two days on a charge04:52
MohammadAGBrowser sucked hard04:52
cehtehn900 can last 2 days too04:53
DocScrutinizernox-: do you live next to a construction site with lots of concrete dust, or maybe work in a lab where hydrocarbon fumes are around?04:53
MohammadAGcehteh, not with music being played all the time04:53
DocScrutinizernox-: do you use cosmetical products for your hands' skin?04:53
MohammadAGcehteh, the N97 could last a whole day (12h) with 3G04:54
cehtehno :)04:54
nox-DocScrutinizer, rarely04:54
MohammadAGI remember leaving 3G on when I'm at school04:54
cehtehwell music from flash works fine for me .. but webradio really sucks juice04:54
MohammadAGand all it lost was 2 bars04:54
nox-DocScrutinizer, i gues i just used the kbd `too much'04:54
DocScrutinizernox-: maybe you got a lemon04:54
nox-cant rule that out :)04:55
cehtehMohammadAG: doing what?04:55
ShadowJKso that might've been 40% left :)04:55
MohammadAGcehteh, nothing, just idle 3G04:55
cehteh3G just on and little data doesnt need much power04:55
MohammadAGdoing that on the N900 makes its life 4 hours max04:55
cehteh(if you dont change cells or in a bad reception area)04:55
MohammadAGI did have nimbuzz and gravity running though04:55
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MohammadAGShadowJK, 2/7 isn't 40 percent :p04:56
cehtehi have skype running, weather updates and maybe 1-2 checks of webpages04:56
ShadowJKit's not linear04:56
Choommy N900 lasts an afternoon if I leave it connected to IRC04:56
cehtehwith that my n900 would last fairly long04:56
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MohammadAGChoom, 3G?04:56
cehtehbut as soon you are moving, changing cells, have some bad reception (bike tour) it starts dropping04:56
ShadowJKN900 with 3g, context activated, idle, lasts about 2 days atleast..04:57
MohammadAGmine lasts 4h04:57
cehtehShadowJK: well it really depends on the situation04:57
MohammadAGShadowJK, by 3G I meant an active data connection04:57
ShadowJKconnection active (reachable on internet), idle04:57
cehtehbiking through the black forrest with dual gsm/3g emptied the battery in 3 hrs here04:58
ShadowJKidle as in no data moving04:58
MohammadAGthere's no way it can last 2 days04:58
ChoomMohammadAG: and that's if I don't use the backlight much04:58
* nox- 1-2d idle on 3g, few hours over wifi...04:58
cehtehidle means you are close to some cell tower and dont move :P04:58
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cehtehswitching between 3g and gsm and cell handovers seem to take a lot juice04:59
* ShadowJK gets about 1.5 days of N900 on irc, on gsm/wifi. 04:59
cehtehhow much irc channels?04:59
MohammadAGmine can last two days with wifi, but not with 3G04:59
ShadowJK30-ish :)04:59
ChoomI get 2 days of that on wifi here, too04:59
DocScrutinizeryou need to understand that you don't control the device's power consumption as soon as you're 'online' via GSM/3G05:00
cehtehi once connected over openvpn over my bouncer ... also about 30 channels05:00
cehtehwell and power saving doesnt work well with my AP05:00
DocScrutinizerthe device may be perfectly idle and somebody is pingflooding you05:00
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cehtehhehe pingflood over 3G .. gets expensive with the wrong data plan05:01
* javispedro ponders what to use the toolbar for in SDL games, if anything at all..05:01
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ShadowJKyeah, before I got the sshd on/off widget, I'd often discover battery at 60% after 2 hours because someone had been trying to bruteforce in through ssh :)05:01
Choomanother thing that I notice is that the phone heats up if I leave an ssh connection open over 3G05:01
ChoomI've never experienced that with wifi05:02
MohammadAGI wonder how those guitar apps on the iPhone work05:02
cehtehi do too05:02
MohammadAGdid someone like record every string/fret/etc05:02
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cehtehwebradio .. warms my device05:02
ShadowJKChoom, that indicates data moving..05:02
cehteh(when charging too)05:02
DocScrutinizeryou should "watch ifconfig phonet" or sth like that05:02
ShadowJKworth noting that the watch increases power consumption too :)05:03
ShadowJKenough to significantly reduce C4 times05:04
DocScrutinizerbut what's C4 compared to 3G data05:04
ShadowJKgood point05:04
DocScrutinizeraiui harmattan has a generic "data transfer" indicator applet05:05
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ShadowJK2 hours streaming webradio, frequent use of screen at max brightness, hspa @ 10km range: 300mAh left05:06
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DocScrutinizerI wish they had made load applet a default as well05:06
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ShadowJK(calibrating bq27200 on devN900)05:06
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: hehe05:07
* ShadowJK wishes there'd be load applet with dual bars for cpu and iowait05:07
* DocScrutinizer wishes loadapplet was normalized against cpu clock05:07
DocScrutinizeror color-coded05:08
ShadowJKlol, that too05:08
ShadowJK42C (ambient 30C) :)05:08
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DocScrutinizer600=red, 250=green05:08
ShadowJK>600=jolly roger05:09
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DocScrutinizeris there any clear word of quim what's going to happen next after sending AID to him?05:12
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DocScrutinizeriirc mail said "sit back and wait..."05:12
DocScrutinizerwait for WHAT? ;-P05:13
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, are yoj getting n950?05:13
DocScrutinizermaybe, if they don't change their mind05:13
ieatlintmy guess is that the device will at some point appear in that "device distribution" space in launchpad05:13
ieatlintwhich means you should just keep refreshing it until you get your phone or the server goes down05:13
* DocScrutinizer idly hits F5 on device distribution05:14
ieatlintgreat, now spend the weekend writing an application that does it for you05:14
DocScrutinizerFF "watch that page for changes"05:15
* GeneralAntilles sighs.05:15
GeneralAntillesAll of you other losers making this process slow.05:15
ieatlinti'll bet money that quim is in europe...05:15
ieatlintand you'll hear somthing on monday05:15
DocScrutinizernot according to his workhours05:16
ieatlintyeah, officially he's out in california05:16
ieatlintbut if you look at when he makes his posts, it's 3am california time05:17
DocScrutinizerstrange, I thought it was 3AM in europe ;-P05:17
ieatlintbottom of the page will give the time zone05:18
ieatlintmine says GMT -7, which is california05:18
ieatlintand 3am for many of his posts :)05:18
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jonwilgod ARM assembly can be a pain sometimes :(05:18
derfs/ARM //05:19
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe we're on something - is there a bug in time display in F.M ?05:19
jonwilx86 is nowhere near as bad as ARM05:20
DocScrutinizeryou bet m80 was05:20
derfjonwil: You're insane.05:20
MohammadAGhis posts are from europe indeed05:20
MohammadAGIf I tell you, I'll have to /kill you05:21
ieatlintyes, i also have evidence05:22
ieatlintbut it's impolite to gossip :P05:22
DocScrutinizersorry that's been a complete insider joke05:22
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ieatlint(btw, if you note the time of your email from quim, it includes a timestamp specifying GMT+2)05:23
javispedroderf: note that he's talking about _reading_ it, not coding in it05:23
ShadowJKgermany or poland?05:24
DocScrutinizerieatlint: meh, that's via Nokia mailer agent05:24
MohammadAGI think he's in HEL atm05:25
ShadowJKhel is gmt+305:25
MohammadAGcould be wrong, but I remember someone saying he was in EU05:25
DocScrutinizerhonestly, who cares and why?05:25
derfjavispedro: Sure.05:25
* javispedro goes back to coding05:25
derfjonwil: What's so terrible about ARM that's better in x86?05:26
DocScrutinizerI'm also in Europe and chatting on IRC at this time05:26
MohammadAGit's 5:26 and I need to wake up at 1005:26
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: we need to know where he is, but it's an integral part of stalking someone05:26
ieatlintnow, i'll put money on him being in spain05:26
MohammadAGthink I should sleep now05:27
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: *yawn*05:31
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infobot*YAWN*  I get *YAWN* tired just thinking of large boxes of unknown substances being poured into nooks and crannies and eaten by little monsters that like to kill fluffy bunnies and oh god I'm tired..05:32
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: *yawn05:32
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: ~yawn05:32
DocScrutinizerhah, fail05:33
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DocScrutinizer~factinfo yawn05:34
infobotyawn -- created by JohnFlux_ <john@> at Tue Jun 12 14:30:39 2001 (3671 days); it has been requested 80 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 2m 39s ago.05:34
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javispedro_MEEGOTOUCH_CANNOT_MINIMIZE atom to disable swipe05:38
jonwilbah, reverse engineering this code is hard :(05:38
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Scifijavispedro: Finally, FREMANTLE targets are working on amd64. Thanks for your help.05:47
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ShadowJKfull charge, bq27200 full reset, write 1200 into AR register, transfer AR to NAC. Results: LMD=2048, NAC=1200. Discharge battery: LMD becomes 1700-ish.06:03
ShadowJKNo quick shortcut for calibration :(06:03
ShadowJKlike a laptop's battery calibration thing would've been more feasible otherwise :)06:05
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you noticed my comments about pin9 and 10 of bq27200?06:07
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you probably even *could* use pin9 GPIO to enable VPP on pin10, which might be available e.g. form backlight booster ;-)06:13
DocScrutinizernope, not really. The programming scheme for bq27200 forbids concurrent use of GPIO06:20
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DocScrutinizer50ms pulse of 21V to pin 1006:21
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cehtehbzzt :)06:28
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GAN900Droid 3, OMAP4430, 1GB RAM, 4" qHD display06:51
GAN900Wouldn't it be nice.06:51
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wmarone_wouldn't it?06:53
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ShadowJKI'd wait until TI fixes omap4's ram issues06:53
GAN900ShadowJK, ah, right.07:01
GAN900Forgot about that07:01
GAN900Always something.07:01
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jonwilbah, I cant get dbus-monitor to dump the dbus messages that I KNOW are being sent08:03
jonwilmental note, dont try and stop/start/restart the Mode Control Entity :P08:08
jonwildoing so is bad :P08:08
jonwilif I could just get dbus-monitor to dump the tklock_close and tklock_open calls, I would be in business08:12
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jonwilaha, need to enable eavsdropping08:19
jonwilok, WTF. Its sitting on a screen with a blue NOKIA logo on a white background and wont go any further in the boot process08:20
jonwilIs my phone hosed?08:21
jonwilhmm, I think its just somehow run out of battery08:22
jonwilIf I plug charger in, I get dark screen with just visible NOKIA logo08:23
jonwilplus charging LED08:23
ShadowJKis this maemo5?08:24
jonwilso yeah if I power the phone with no charger plugged in, I get NOKIA logo on white and nothing more08:25
jonwilif I plug with wall charger, I get charging LED and dim nokia logo08:25
jonwilDoes that mean its low battery08:25
jonwilor does it mean I need to reflash (which I would rather NOT do)08:26
ShadowJKit'd rebootloop08:26
jonwilso the screen I get means what?08:26
ShadowJKpulsating or steady charge led?08:26
jonwilnormal orange pulse for charging08:27
ShadowJKprobably charging then08:27
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jonwilok, my guess is that when I boot with no charger, the boot starts, displays the nokia logo then says "hey, not enough juice to boot"08:27
jonwilif I boot with the charger it says "hey, not enough juice to boot but there is a charger plugged in so lets charge"08:28
jonwilthats my guess anyway08:28
ShadowJKand pressing powerbutton with charger connected doesn't turn led blue? (usually you hold it a sec or two and the led turns progressively blue)08:28
jonwilnope, pressing power with charger doesnt make it go blue or change the screen08:28
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jonwil no matter how long I hold down the power button08:29
jonwilI hope I havent screwed up something important and need to reflash :(08:29
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jonwilI think the best thing to do is to leave it for a while and let it charge08:30
ShadowJKYou can't reflash with empty battery anyway08:30
jonwilI have no idea if the battery is empty or not08:30
jonwilbut I am going to assume that it is08:30
jonwiland let it charge (assuming thats what its doing)08:30
jonwiland mess with it later08:31
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jonwilI wish there was more documentation on the boot process08:31
jonwiland what different boot events mean08:32
ShadowJKdocumentationis generally lacking regrding follow-on effects of various shoot-self-in-foot events :)08:32
jonwillets read
jonwilthat might tell me something08:34
jonwiloh wait that doesnt help08:35
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ShadowJKThere's a stage where it has booted into kernel, and then if battery is too low it turns off backlight for precharge. However, since PR1.3 kernel the system with charger connected consumes more than that08:38
jonwilMy guess is that the NOKIA logo comes from the bootloader08:39
jonwilrather than the kernel08:39
jonwilif it booted kernel, I would expect to see the dots08:39
jonwiland maybe the nokia hands animation08:39
ShadowJKso if it turns itself off after 3-10 days, then goes steady orange light, and boots into lights off again, that's probably what happened08:39
jonwilI suspect my phone is simply out of juice08:40
jonwilall the experiments I have been doing probably drained it08:40
ShadowJKWell nolo throws up hands, linux doesn't replace it08:40
jonwilok, so hands comes from nolo08:40
jonwilok, that means its not booting kernel at all08:40
ShadowJKit doesn't necessarily mean that08:41
ShadowJKif it goes to act_dead mode, it just pauses/halts boot before progress balls would appear, or something like that08:41
jonwilact_dead mode is what?08:42
jonwilaha, "(btw for the record, the battery charging is actually an even more stripped down "act-dead" mode... the device actually powers up, loads frame buffer drivers for the display/etc, then shows you the charging screen). "08:43
jonwilThat sounds like the mode my phone is in08:43
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robbiethe1stWow! According to my Backupmenu readme logs, I've got 269 distinct installs of my current version in less than 24 hours.09:02
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jonwildamn, my phone still wont work09:56
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jonwilI can get the flasher to see the phone though10:07
jonwilso its definatly getting that far10:07
jonwilI just cant get it to fully boot10:07
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jonwil I just hope I dont need to reflash :(10:14
jonwilwhere are the gurus when ya need em :P10:14
jonwilThe last thing I did before this happened was I changed a dbus config file10:15
jonwilbut what I am seeing suggests its more than a simple screwed up dbus config10:15
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jonwilIt better not be a hardware fault or else I might end up with no usable phone and a useless piece of crap from Nokia Care running Symbian10:18
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robbiethe1stjonwil: Try flashing a framebuffer kernel10:21
robbiethe1stProbably an Optfs problem10:21
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jonwilwill flashing the phone risk things if the battery is dead/not providing enough juice or will it just fail to flash?10:22
jonwilAnd where do I get a safe trusted kernel to try?10:22
jonwilI hope editing /etc/dbus-1/system.conf to enable dbus eavesdropping isn't the cause of my problem10:23
robbiethe1stgrab the image file out of that package, flash with Nokia flasher10:23
robbiethe1stand it'll fail to flash, likely. Even if it flashed part way, you're in no danger - There's always Cold Flashing10:24
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robbiethe1stN900's just about unbrickable, provided you have an external charger or second battery, provided the first one runs down10:24
jonwilIt doesnt find the right file for that kernel10:25
jonwil not found10:25
jonwilso where do I get it from?10:26
jonwilok, I found
jonwilwhich file do I want?10:27
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jonwiland how do I flash it?10:29
robbiethe1stUm, there's a -k option IIRC10:29
robbiethe1strun flasher -h or w/e10:29
robbiethe1stget the list of options10:29
robbiethe1stYou don't have Backupmenu, do you?10:33
jonwilok, I have framebuffer kernel now10:35
jonwilok, now I see su: can't chdir to home directory /home/user10:35
jonwilalso something about "error reading WD flags"10:36
jonwilCan I flash this "backupmenu" thing directly with my phone in this state?10:37
jonwilIf I can just get to a shell, I think its fixable10:37
fralsi wonder, is the NAND and emmc availble if you boot meego from the sdcard?10:38
fralsif so that would be one way to get a shell10:38
robbiethe1stWell, try flashing this:
robbiethe1stUse the -r rootfs option10:40
jonwilwont that overwrite all my settings like /etc and stuff?10:40
robbiethe1stYes. Um...10:40
jonwilI just need to get a shell on the thing10:41
robbiethe1stWhich - AFAIK - is impossible currently. Without Backupmenu or some other pre-boot stuff already installed, you can't even manually install something new, as you can't get access to the rootfs or optfs.10:41
robbiethe1stYou can, however, save your MyDocs and possibly some Optfs files if you're lucky and don't fully flash10:42
robbiethe1stoptfs contains your important bits - program settings, email, sms etc.10:42
jonwilwhere is /home/user stored?10:44
jonwiloptfs? rootfs?10:44
RST38hOk, I am now prepared to use a freaking CPP on these .java files.10:45
jonwilCan I flash a loader or kernel that boots from microsd?10:45
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jonwile.g. image on microsd?10:45
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hiemanshufrals: nand is not, emmc is10:54
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jonwildoes reflashing rootfs erase /home/user?10:57
hiemanshujonwil: umm, do you have uboot or something installled?10:57
hiemanshujonwil: yes, it doesn't touch MyDocs though10:57
jonwilnope, I dont, can I install that with the flashable uboot-and-kernel image?10:57
hiemanshujonwil: what are you trying to do?10:58
jonwiltrying to find out why my phone wont boot and/or fix it without loosing all my data10:59
hiemanshujonwil: it has a recovery terminal10:59
jonwilok, the recovery kernel seems to boot11:05
jonwilbut the screen is dark11:05
jonwiland I cant see11:05
jonwilIs there a way I can key something in to solve that?11:05
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jonwilok, I need to enable r&D mode for that11:08
jonwilnow I can type11:08
jonwilok, now I cant get the blue symbol key to work so I cant type in symbols like - or /11:13
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jonwilif I can get the symbol key to work I should be able to fix my phone11:15
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hiemanshujonwil: long press doen't work either?11:16
jonwilnope :(11:17
jonwilif I can just get it so I can type a - key, I can do stuff :)11:20
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ieatlinttyping i overrated11:22
jonwilnot when you are trying to fix a busted phone its not :P11:22
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alteregoUse the vkb11:26
jonwilthe meego recovery kernel has no virtual keyboard11:27
jonwilor anything fancy11:27
fralsdoes the recovery console have usbnetwork by any chance?11:30
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hiemanshuyes, it does have usb net11:32
jonwildoes usbnet for the recovery console help me get access to it?11:34
hiemanshunot sure about that :/11:36
robbiethe1stgot a SD card?11:40
robbiethe1stor wait... no slash.11:40
JaffaMorning, all11:41
jonwilI am going to attempt to copy meegoce image to microsd11:41
jonwiland use flasher -l to load the kernel11:42
jonwiland get into meegoce11:42
Jaffajavispedro: 16GB11:42
jonwilmount my maemo /11:42
jonwiland then fix it11:42
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jonwilor if not fix, copy everything off11:42
jonwiland reflash11:42
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alteregoWould be cool if we can hack meego on to WP7 phones...12:07
dm8tbrare there EGL linux drivers for the snapdraong?12:08
dm8tbralso, is it high security silicon?12:09
alteregoIf it's as easy as Android ..12:11
alteregoBut it probably wont be, I guess we'll know soon enough.12:12
dm8tbrso unless someone comes up with a driver...12:16
dm8tbrsee bug 17570 on meego.com12:16
povbotBug was not found.12:16
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Oppo|n900how do you mark stuff in the webbrowser on maemo?12:48
Oppo|n900yea copy paste from the page12:50
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Oppo|n900in order to copy from a page, you first need to mark some text12:51
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Hurrianswipe left to right12:59
Hurrianclick the mouse button13:00
Hurrianhighlight like crazy13:00
rzr : p-uae is a portable #unix #amiga #emulator packaged for #meego and #debian distro, report prerelease tests13:02
moofreeoh boy13:10
rzrwrong chang :)13:10
moofreeonly amiga makes it happen13:10
robbiethe1strzr: Why not package it for Maemo as well? shouldn't me much different than Debian13:11
pabs3rzr: whats with all the # characters?13:11
robbiethe1stpabs3: channels, obviously13:11
robbiethe1stand those all seem like valid channels on Freenode13:11
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rzrrobbiethe1st: i dont have scratchbox on my current computer but yes it is planned too13:14
robbiethe1stOk, good.13:14
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rzrunless i can ssh to a maemo rootfs13:15
rzrpabs3: # are cut and paste from
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: changing kernel without taking care about modules ->brick. Rescue-initrd use ctrl-i to tab-expand helps a bit. dbus failure sure causes bootup lock. ~user is on eMMC13:40
jonwilI am just trying to get a usable terminal on my phone so I can mount rootfs13:41
DocScrutinizerjonwil: flashing rootfs deletes /opt though13:41
jonwildont you mean that /opt is in emmc13:41
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jonwiland rootfs is on nand13:41
DocScrutinizerjonwil: usable terminal: go meego, your best chance13:41
DocScrutinizeryes /opt is on eMMC but flashing rootfs will cause deletion of /opt on first boot13:42
robbiethe1stFlashing rootfs *with the stock rootfs* deletes opt on the first boot13:42
robbiethe1stgot to use something different if you don't want it wiped13:42
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: congrats to V1.0 :-) did you get the "bot me up" key?13:43
[DarkGUNMAN]/home/user is a good placemto keep13:44
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robbiethe1stDocScrutinizer: Uh...? boot me up key?13:45
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robbiethe1stSee my next point. Not going to be easily possible; it's in a chroot, and I'd have to somehow switch back and continue the boot process.13:47
robbiethe1stI did implement the (needed) optfs-formatting bit, though. And I may be able to actually add terminal capability for Kernel-power users13:49
DocScrutinizercool :-D13:49
robbiethe1stTurns out there's a 'fbcon' module which, when loaded might just allow me to go "sh", and get a terminal! :D13:50
DocScrutinizeror kernelpanic and reboot - 2 of 3 cases ;-)13:51
DocScrutinizermight be good enough if you really need term13:52
DocScrutinizerjust don't load the fbcon unconditionally :-)13:52
robbiethe1stYea, definitely.13:53
Atariihey robbiethe1st13:54
AtariiI've been seeing your name all over somewhere today (some maemo site)13:54
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robbiethe1stwell, YEAH13:56
robbiethe1stand it's, the official maemo forum...13:58
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: btw I don't think you need to switch sth on dbus-config to 'eavesdrop' any msg. dbus-monitor shal get them all, on user session and on system buss14:02
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ali1234Hurrian: i unpacked your file14:03
Jaffafrals: Quick question - when creating an event in Calendar, how do you make it go in anything other than the "default" calendar?14:03
ali1234hey, does nitdroid support u-boot now? topic seems to imply this?14:05
ali1234or are you just saying "don't use nitdroid"14:05
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Hurrianali1234, many android devices use uboot14:12
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Hurrianhowever, iirc nitdroid people use startup scripts that mess with regular startup14:13
pabs3heh, nitdroid front page got replaced with spam14:14
Hurriannot like the wiki's updated anyway14:15
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MoonTigerhey guys :)14:16
robbiethe1stThe minute Nitdroid uses Uboot, I'll try it. Not before.14:18
Hurrianrobbiethe1st: i'll start testing it again if they switch14:18
Hurrianlike many others, i'd like to avoid onenand writes14:18
Hurrianheh, i'd like a graphical boot menu (like Chameleon) for uboot14:19
Hurrianali1234 , if you're still here, i'm assuming you'll need python-lzo for said script14:20
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ali1234Hurrian: yes14:20
Hurrianoh wow, they're all packaged rpm. brb, recompiling everything for ubuntu14:22
ali1234liblzo is in the ubuntu repository14:24
fralsJaffa: press the down arrow splitting the top with the "note"14:24
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Hurrianali1234, installed liblzo-dev, installing python-dev for oberhumer's python-lzo14:27
jhbpabs3: fied that14:27
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Hurriananyone know if nitdroid still overclocks to 700 on default voltage?14:35
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robbiethe1stdepends on device14:38
robbiethe1stLike with maemo, all depends on the device14:38
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Hurrianno, i mean if it's still a default setting14:52
Hurrianit's a pretty bad idea imho14:52
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jonwilstill no luck mounting my rootfs with any of the rescue initrds I have tried15:03
jonwiland I dont have anything small enough to flash onto my 1gb microsd that will help15:03
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SpeedEvilIsn't the smallest meego under that?15:07
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jonwilif you have a link for that, that would be GRETA15:08
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SpeedEvilSorry - no. I vaguely recall Dibblah did so, to rescue his device. I'm unsure if that was to the SD though15:08
SpeedEvilto a 1G SD15:09
Hurrianuhh, btrfs compression might get you there15:09
Hurrianif btrfs doesn't ENOSPC on you first15:09
Hurrianiirc i got meego to 7xx MB15:10
Hurrianbtrfs could be lying ofc15:10
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SpeedEvilyou can't use btrfs - btrfs is for raw flash devices - SD is not raw flash15:10
Hurriandon't you mean ubifs?15:11
Hurrianbtrfs is a disk filesystem like ext415:11
jonwilso how do I get  meego to fit on a 1GB microsd then?15:11
SpeedEvilmaybe I do15:11
MohammadAGwhat exactly do you want to do?15:12
jonwilboot my phone with either a microsd OS or a initramfs os in a way that will let me mount my ubifs rootfs15:12
jonwiland fix the issue preventing the normal n900 rootfs from booting properly15:12
MohammadAGuse MeeGo on the eMMC15:13
jonwilit shouldnt be so damn hard but it is :(15:13
jonwilI would do meego-on-emmc if I could get usb networking going on my gentoo box15:13
jonwilbut I cant15:13
jonwilso the fails15:13
MohammadAGwtf is that15:13
MohammadAGdo you have the MeeGo raw image?15:14
jonwilI do15:14
MohammadAGdo you know how to use gparted?15:14
Hurrianali1234 , doesn't seem to work on my end15:14
Hurrianjonwil, use GNU Parted to print the offsets of each partition15:15
jonwilI think I do15:15
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MohammadAGjonwil, k, should be easy, is your device close to a full charge?15:15
jonwilshould be15:16
crashanddie_anyone aware of a tool that can map a process' execution?15:16
MohammadAGjonwil, k, boot the meego rescue initrd image15:16
crashanddie_Basically, drawing UML from a process' calls and execution?15:16
MohammadAGand install kpartx and gparted on your gentoo15:16
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MohammadAGif the device shuts down go R&D and kill the watchdogs15:18
Jaffafrals: "Manage maps" in 22-6 seems very broken. It downloads but then doesn't install.15:18
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jonwilok, installing gparted now15:21
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Dibblahjonwil: Unfortunately, I had a bootable OS to start with - If you're not bootable, there's no way to install uboot or whatever.15:21
jonwilI have a suitable backup of my emmc thanks to the mass storage mode of the ramdisk15:22
jonwilso I just need to get a bootable OS onto that emmc15:22
DibblahThe only reason I went down that route is that I had no functional USB port on that N900.15:22
jonwilmount my rootfs, fix my problem, reflash with a maemo emmc and be back in business15:22
jonwilat least thats what I hope is going to happen15:22
MohammadAGjonwil, if you follow my steps you'll have MeeGo working without doing anything to maemo15:23
MohammadAGin fact, maemo won't notice it15:23
jonwilso this wont affect my existing emmc contents?15:23
jonwilok, great15:23
MohammadAGnor will it affect /home or /opt15:24
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jonwilok, gparted is still emerging15:24
MohammadAGbut you'll lose 2GBs of MyDocs15:24
jonwilif thats what it takes, thats fine15:24
MohammadAGinstead of 28GBs it'll be 2615:24
jonwilok, ready to boot phone in rescue mode as soon as the steps I can do before booting the phone are done15:25
jonwilso that I dont waste battery sitting there doing nothing15:25
jonwilwow, gparted needs a lot of packages15:25
jonwilprobably because my gentoo system is nominally kde15:26
jonwilsince I cant do anything until this emerges, I am going to have some food before my body battery runs to empty :)15:27
jonwilwhilst I wait for this to emerge, I will plug my phone into the wall charger and get it into the "it wont boot but it charges" mode so I can fill the batttery in the mean time15:29
MohammadAGoh you can charge it? I thought you broke it before that15:30
MohammadAGif so I suggest you fill it up15:30
jonwilI think its charging, the charging LED is flashing as normal15:30
jonwilso I am guessing its charging15:30
MohammadAGgparted's gonna take a while to move partitions and stuff, screen will be on and no bme15:30
jonwilcould it be flashing the LED and not charging?15:31
jonwildoubt it myself :P15:32
jonwilI assume I will be activating usb storage mode on the initrd15:33
MohammadAGjonwil, yes15:34
MohammadAGping me when you're back, I have a fullscreen youtube vid running15:34
jonwilwill ping you15:34
jonwilonce gparted is installed15:35
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jonwila note for the future is that one should NOT hand-edit anything in /etc15:38
Hurrianjonwil, always use templates ;)15:39
* ruskie always hand edits15:39
ruskiebut also always backups15:39
jonwilmy guess is that dbus is failing to init due to my edit15:39
jonwiland therefore it cant do what it needs to do15:39
Hurriani have templates for startup scripts, system scripts and network scripts15:39
jonwiland boot15:39
Hurrianjonwil, y u edit dbus?15:40
Hurriani dont remember anything being tunable there15:40
jonwiltrying to enable eavsdropping15:40
jonwilwhich was a bad idea15:40
Hurrianyeah, then again, dbus monitor doesnt spit out much on maemo15:41
Hurrianmite b useful15:41
jonwilIts a guess that thats what stuffed things up since that was the last thing I did before it failed15:42
ruskieHurrian, sure it does... just need to hook to the right one15:43
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jonwilmy god gtkmm takes ages to compile :(15:52
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DibblahThat's what happens when you run Gentoo.15:54
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javispedroMohammadAG: ping.16:17
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javispedroMohammadAG: I think I found the way to disable swipe: an atom called _MEEGOTOUCH_CANNOT_MINIMIZE16:18
DocScrutinizerjonwil: you're always searching for things to RE, no? mce was a really great candidate16:19
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MohammadAGjavispedro, how the hell did you find that16:19
jonwilok, gparted is installed16:19
jonwilWhats the next step?16:20
MohammadAGboot the initrd16:20
MohammadAGagain it may shutdown in 30s16:20
MohammadAGso use R&D mode16:20
javispedroMohammadAG: /usr/lib/mcompositor/*swipe*.so uses it16:20
jonwilok, R&D is on16:20
* DocScrutinizer searches periodic system and decides this has to be a new element created by this atom16:20
javispedroDocScrutinizer: an X11 atom16:20
MohammadAGjonwil, with watchdogs off?16:21
javispedrotechnically, it's a property. I just call them atoms because property names are atoms =)16:21
Jaffajavispedro: So an app could take over the screen and try and prevent people getting out of it. For face recognition locking etc.?16:21
MohammadAGJaffa, more likes games with swiping16:21
javispedroor games16:21
MohammadAGlike angry birds16:21
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JaffaYou have to start *right* at the edge of the screen to get a swipe going though16:21
MohammadAGjonwil, boot the initrd and enable mass storage16:21
jonwildone that16:22
MohammadAGJaffa, yes, but you might do that by mistake16:22
JaffaMohammadAG: You might, yes.16:22
jonwilok, gparted is up16:22
MohammadAGpaused games should reenable swiping16:22
MohammadAGjonwil, you should have 3 partitions and 64(?) MBs of unpartitioned space16:22
javispedroJaffa: on sbox sdk it has happened to me accidentally already twice or more16:22
jonwilyep, I can see that16:22
jonwilWhat options do I want to pick next?16:22
javispedro(though it is easier on sbox at least)16:22
jonwilI see fat32 and ext3 and swap16:23
MohammadAGjonwil, you'll want to resize the fat32 partition, make the new size after it 204816:23
MohammadAGyou then want to move all partitions so this new unpartitioned space is at the end16:23
TermanaMohammadAG, javispedro: could turn ugly though, if the app decides it doesn't want to turn it back on16:23
MohammadAGthen you'll need to make a new partition, of exactly 2048, don't f with the unpartitioned space16:24
jonwilnew size in mib is what?16:24
MohammadAGTermana, very ugly16:24
TermanaDoes the N9/N950 have a reset button?16:24
DocScrutinizerJaffa: I hope there's a gconf key or whatever to define/tweak such parameters like "what is >right at the edge<, in pixels"16:24
jonwilcurrently its 2765216:24
javispedroTermana: yes, as well as power button16:24
MohammadAGTermana, hard power off16:24
MohammadAGjonwil, there should be three fields16:24
javispedroTermana: force quitting the app makes compositor reenable swipe16:24
MohammadAG0 27652 016:24
DocScrutinizerJaffa: >how long to press&hold for menu to pop up<16:24
MohammadAGthe last field states new size after partition or something, change it from 0 to 204816:24
TermanaOk, so some developer will just look like a fool then, not a deal breaker16:25
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MohammadAGjonwil, "Free space following (MiB)"16:25
jonwilok, I see16:25
jonwilNeed to emerge dosfstools to manage fat16:25
jonwilshould take no time :)16:26
jonwilyep, done already16:26
jonwilok, resizing16:26
jonwilwhat do I change to the second partition?16:27
alterego /me bought a new notebook after losing his in London the weekend before last.16:27
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alteregoThough, still need to replace my nice pencil ..16:27
javispedroTermana: UI guidelines actually suggest disabling swipe for games:
jonwilok, now shrinking /dev/stc1 from 27.00gib to 25.00gib16:28
MohammadAGjonwil, sec, looking for a pic16:28
jonwildone the steps I need to do16:28
jonwilI have the other 2 partitons moved to fill the gap16:28
jonwilonce these 3 ops are done, I will create the 4th partition for meego16:28
jonwilnow moving /dev/sdc2 to the left16:29
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MohammadAGignore the extended part, just make a primary ext4 partition16:29
MoonTigerguys is it possible that my code fails under the MADDE thingy but runs on its own?16:29
javispedroto complete the swipe experience it would be nice to close apps by swiping them out, like the webos =)16:31
javispedro(in the task switcher view)16:31
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MoonTigerok let me rephrase that.... i know it's possible as it's happening ... does it make any sense?16:32
alteregojavispedro: swiping down from the top closes apaplications16:32
MohammadAGdoesn't work with scrolling downwards :P16:32
javispedroalterego: I know, that's why I added the inside parentheses part16:32
jonwilok, /dev/sdc2 is still being copied, it says "copying 272.00mib of 1.66gib"16:32
alteregojavispedro: Ah right, well, yeah, like MohammadAG said, it'd interfere with scrolling16:32
MohammadAGjonwil, give it time16:32
jonwilyeah giving it time16:32
javispedroso just make it so you swipe left or right =)16:33
alteregoMaybe a diagonal from top left to bottom right16:33
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alterego(of the thumbnail)16:33
MohammadAGdoesn't work with swiping between 3 views16:33
javispedroMohammadAG: ok, good point.16:33
MohammadAGI'd love an always visible X button16:33
MohammadAGin the task switcher16:33
alteregoMohammadAG: waste of screen estate16:33
MohammadAGalterego, task switcher ;)16:34
alteregoI  think I'd prefer a close button when the app is actually shown.,16:34
alteregoMohammadAG: I know, waste of screen estate :P16:34
MohammadAGhow? :P16:34
MohammadAGthe X button is overlaid16:34
alteregoSure, and it looks crappy :P16:34
macmaNMohammadAG: i dont think the always visible X would be as good as just getting out of X mode by touching an appwindow in center16:34
macmaNright now you have to hit the Done button in footer, which is clumsy esp. for maemo people16:35
MohammadAGshouting elop at a window should close it16:35
alteregomacmaN: I agree there, empty space press should dismiss it like it does with dialogs.16:35
jonwilok, the screen has now gone blank, is this normal?16:35
* alterego continues working on "rx components"16:35
jonwilIts still copying16:35
MohammadAGjonwil, yes, don't touch the keyboard16:35
jonwilok, I wont touch the device at all16:36
TermanaMohammadAG, $50 and I'll make it happen... joking :p16:36
macmaNhiemanshu said earlier that post n950 firmware has had 3000 bug fixes16:36
macmaNim liking how facebook app obeys Hides16:36
macmaNi can only hope the Twitter app can also do the same16:36
Jaffaalterego: Down swipe doesn't work in the 22-6 image we get :-(16:37
JaffamacmaN: Yeah, konttori said it last night16:37
alteregoJaffa: I know, I just heard it's in N9 production image.16:37
MohammadAGJaffa, did you dd mmcblk0 somewhere?16:38
alteregoI wish they'd drop the "developer edition" branding ..16:38
Jaffaalterego: RX components? An abstraction of Qt & MeeGo UX?16:38
MohammadAGsince the flashing image online is older than 22-616:38
JaffaMohammadAG: Hmm, no.16:38
MohammadAGalterego, why, it's 133716:38
JaffaMohammadAG: It looks fugly in portrait when your operator is "vodafone UK" ;-)16:38
alteregoJaffa: neah, my own custom toolkit for my type of apps (Columbus)16:38
Jaffaalterego: Ah16:39
MohammadAGchange your operator :P16:39
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jonwilok, good, up to moving /dev/sdc316:40
MohammadAGjonwil, you're moving them by dragging the box right?16:40
MohammadAGo/ wazd16:40
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jonwilyes I am16:41
JaffaMohammadAG: "O2" is short, but they're also shit. (Vodafone's not great either, but hey)16:41
jonwilok so I have a .raw file ready to flash16:41
jonwilsize says its 3816816641 bytes16:41
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MohammadAGJaffa, mine's "orange", any ideas if that'll fit?16:42
MohammadAGjonwil, that's where kpartx comes in16:42
MohammadAGit's actually less than 2GBs16:42
MohammadAGsudo kpartx -a rawfilename16:42
jonwilI cant find a kpartx gentoo ebuild16:42
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jonwilaha, found it16:43
jonwilI need to emerge multipath-tools16:43
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javispedrosys-fs/multipath-tools-0.4.8-r1 (/sbin/kpartx)16:43
javispedrooops, late.16:44
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jonwilok, new partiton created16:45
MohammadAGleft the unpartitioned space right?16:45
jonwilas ext416:45
jonwilyes the 64mib16:46
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MohammadAGgood, messing that up can make the device unbootable afaik16:46
jonwilok, kpartx installed16:46
MohammadAGjonwil, the ext4 partiton is number 4 right?16:46
MohammadAGMyDocs is 1 and /home is 3 amiright?16:46
jonwilI have fat32, ext3, swap, ext416:46
MohammadAGyeah, my bad16:47
jonwilok, so I ran kpartx -a filename16:47
JaffaMohammadAG: Probably - just.16:47
MohammadAGis /mnt empty?16:47
jonwilit didnt seem to do anything16:47
MohammadAGif so16:48
MohammadAGmount /dev/mapper/loop0p1 /mnt16:48
MohammadAGnow mount the 4th partition somewhere16:48
MohammadAGand sudo cp -a /mnt/* /4thpartition/16:48
jonwilkpartx did nothing to the file16:48
MohammadAGactually it did16:48
jonwileven though the size didnt change?16:48
MohammadAGyou should have /dev/mapper/loop0p[1-3]16:49
MohammadAGwhich are the .raw file contents16:49
jonwilhold a second, I need to compile ext4 as a module16:49
jonwilmy kernel doesnt seem to have it from the looks of it16:49
MohammadAGchange it to ext3 then ;)16:49
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MohammadAGI don't think MeeGo cares about partition type16:50
jonwiltoo late, already done16:50
jonwilthe compile kernel16:50
jonwiljust compiling the one module16:50
jonwilfor ext416:50
MohammadAGI'm assuming you mounted both the image and the partition then?16:51
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jonwilok, cp -a going now16:53
jonwilnext up, how do I boot into this image?16:53
MohammadAGmake another mount point16:54
jonwilI assume I just need a kernel I can load with -l16:54
MohammadAGthen mount /dev/mapper/loop0p3 on it16:54
MohammadAGinside, you'll find 4 files16:54
MohammadAGa vmlinuz, the kernel, and a config-*, the kernel config16:54
MohammadAGcat config* | grep CMDLINE16:55
MohammadAGchange the cmdline so it root is /dev/mmcblk0p416:55
MohammadAGtake out any microSDs, and use flasher-3.5 -k vmlinuz -l --boot=$modified_cmdline16:55
jonwilok, I have no microsd in the phone16:56
jonwilstill doing the cp -a16:56
jonwilI hope this meego image has what I need to mount NAND16:57
MohammadAGyou need mtd-utils in MeeGo16:57
MohammadAGzypper refresh && zypper install mtd-utils afaik16:57
MohammadAGbut we'll get to that later16:57
MohammadAGoh and it has sshd out of the box16:57
jonwilmain thing is to get meego booting so I can start the battery recharging again16:57
jonwilwhich I assume it will do16:58
MohammadAGyep, it has bme16:59
jonwilok, booting new kernel now16:59
MohammadAGcp -a done?16:59
jonwilyes that worked16:59
jonwilthat finished16:59
jonwilits now sitting on a line which says "mmcblk0 p1 p2 p3 p4"17:00
Termanajavispedro, after a lot of attempts, I got a half decent icon using your icon generator. But I had to use Inkscape to do a trace over it and then remove the white background to make it transparent.
jonwilit says "17:01
jonwilaha, my fault, wrong kernel command line17:01
DocScrutinizerjonwil: do I get that right yu're nuking your device by installing meego to eMMC now, for sole purpose to fix the dbus cfg edit you did? ;-D17:01
TermanaHe has a hole in his head :( :p17:01
jonwilno, this isnt nuking it, its a separate partition17:01
jonwilok, meego is up17:02
jonwilnice spashscreen17:02
javispedroTermana: it also has a hole in the original file17:02
DocScrutinizerI'm yet wondering if a meego install on a uSD wouldn't have done as well17:02
jonwilexcept that I only have a 1gb microsd17:02
jonwilwhich is the root of the problem17:02
javispedroTermana: does this come from an automated raster to vector tracing software?17:02
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jonwilok, its sitting on the splashscreen saying "meego 1.2 community edition"17:03
MohammadAGjonwil, generating ssh keys17:03
MohammadAGfirst boot takes a while17:03
DocScrutinizerjonwil: lrn2backup ;-P17:03
jonwilok, now the screen has gone blank but backlit17:03
jonwilwhich is normal17:03
jonwilok, its up17:03
Termanajavispedro, yeah I know (wasn't implying the generator did it :p) - when I removed the white background and made it transparent it took out the white shine in it's head and I didn't notice until I ran it through the generator :P17:04
Termanajavispedro, depends what you mean by automated - I used Inkscape, which does it automatically by going through one of the menus and selecting a couple of options17:04
jonwilok, so whats the next step to mount my flash and fix my problem?17:04
javispedroTermana: you might need to cover the hole manually if inkscape refuses :(17:05
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I do an rsync via cron each night. Flashing a clean rootfs and then restoring all from backup, less the dbus cfg would probably have been less effort17:05
javispedroor editing the svg file17:05
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Termanajavispedro, I thought I'd just leave the hole their ;)17:05
javispedro(by text editor :P )17:05
jonwilI see a telephone icon, letter icon, 4 squares, globe icon and camera icon17:05
MohammadAGjonwil, that's meego :p17:05
jonwilyeah from now on I will install some sort of backup solution such as backupmenu17:05
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javispedrothe dominant color extraction has also faled there, unless you wanted black =).I saw that there are some papers about good dominant color extraction which I'llr ead when I have the time.17:06
jonwilok, firstly how do I pick my wifi17:06
MohammadAGjonwil, menu settings17:06
MohammadAGyou'll figure out the rest17:06
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jonwilwifi "17:06
jonwilI can do17:06
jonwilmounting the ubifs I dont know17:06
MohammadAGopen terminal17:07
MohammadAGoh actually yeah, connect to wifi first17:07
jonwilok, associating17:07
Termanajavispedro, well originally I thought it would be good if it worked ok. But then it came out black and I liked it. You should make it so people can choose the colours rather than only have the option of extracting them ;)17:07
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jonwilok, wifi is go17:08
jonwilnow what do I do next?17:08
jonwilopen terminal and install mtd-utils?17:08
MohammadAGzypper refresh && zypper install mtd-utils17:08
jonwilhow do I get root?17:09
MohammadAGsu root17:09
MohammadAGpass is "meego"17:09
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jonwilok, refereshing17:10
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jonwilnow plugged into wall charger to ensure it stays full17:11
jonwilgiving me errors about unsigned crap17:11
jonwilwhich I am saying yes to17:11
MohammadAGyeah, I get that too17:11
jonwilmeego is definatly not as polished on the N900 as maemo is17:12
jonwiljust feels different17:12
MohammadAGbut it's in development ;)17:12
jonwilnow grabbing oss-1.2-daily17:12
MohammadAGhmm, aegis aside, should a binary from MeeGo 1.2 work on the N9?17:13
jonwilso yeah I should either be able to fix dbus and boot maemo again17:13
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jonwilor failing that, mount nand, copy the contents off then reflash nand17:13
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ?17:13
MohammadAGwithout recompilation17:15
jonwilok, mtd-utils installed. How do I mount NAND?17:15
MohammadAGumm, mount -t ubi0:rootfs /mnt afaik17:15
MohammadAGdrop the "-t"17:15
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you mean meegoCE -> meegoHarmattan?17:15
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yes17:15
MohammadAGboth are hardfp, omap3, etc17:16
DocScrutinizertest it, always depends17:16
fralsdepends what the binary needs17:16
MohammadAGmount -t ubifs ubi0:rootfs /mnt jonwil17:16
MohammadAGfrals, if libs are present on both17:16
jonwilok, that last command line says "unknown filesystem type ubifs"17:16
MohammadAGpoint is, I don't have to recompile for both right?17:17
MohammadAGjonwil, zypper install mtd-utils-ubi17:17
jonwilok, thanks17:17
jonwilsays "nothing provides perl(config::inifiles)17:18
jonwilgives me the option to ignore the missing dep or not to install17:18
MohammadAGignore it17:18
jonwilok, we have mount17:19
jonwilor not17:19
jonwilsame error, unknown filesystem type17:19
fralsMohammadAG: if its compiled against the same libs, it "should" work, i guess17:19
MohammadAGtry ubiattach /dev/ubi_ctrl -m 5 first17:19
jonwilit says "write protected, mounting read only"17:20
jonwilhow do I mount it read-write?17:20
MohammadAGmount -t ubifs -o rw,bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc ubi0:rootfs /mnt17:20
DocScrutinizerremount ?17:21
jonwilstill says "write protected, mounting read only"17:21
jonwilsays "block device ubi0:ubifs is write protected, mounting read-only"17:21
MohammadAGhmm, can ubifs be fscked?17:21
DocScrutinizerjonwil: maybe first check if you can *read* it now?17:23
jonwilI can read it17:23
jonwilwont let me mount it rw17:25
jonwilSO close and yet so far17:25
jonwilIf I can mount it rw I can fix my config17:25
jonwiland be back in business17:25
MohammadAGI wonder if there's a force option17:25
jonwilI dont know17:27
DocScrutinizeryou unmounted it and then mounted with all the nice -o magic spell?17:28
alteregoHah, my dad has started using my PGP key :D17:28
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jonwilyes I did17:29
jonwiland it wont mount17:29
jonwildmesg does say "recovery needed" and "recovery deferred"17:29
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DocScrutinizerhmm, I wonder if /dev/mtd is related17:29
jonwilit says "read-only ubi device"17:30
jonwileverything in /dev is rw for root17:30
DocScrutinizer"recovery deferred" means ubifs knows there has sth to be done. Need to find a way to force it to do it17:31
SpeedEvilIs there a ubick?17:31
jonwilno sign of any ubkfsck17:32
jonwilor fsck.ubifs17:32
alteregoWhat would people call the widget that displays speed and bearing in my app:
DocScrutinizernah, ubifs is different17:32
alterego"NumericIndicator" doesn't really cut it for me ..17:32
MohammadAGjonwil, try rebooting into maemo and doing a clean shutdown17:33
jonwilexcept that I cant because maemo wont boot17:33
alteregoSpeedEvil: now that's a good one ;)17:33
jonwilit goes into a "hey, I cant boot" loop17:33
jonwilsince dbus isnt working17:34
fralsalterego: dashboard?17:34
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: there has to be some mountoption or cmd that triggers "fsck" for ubifs17:34
SpeedEvilalterego: you mean the speed and bearing display - or you mean thte large white numbers on it?17:34
alteregofrals: ? Specifically just that "000.00 (mph)" widget17:34
javispedronot necessarily17:35
javispedro(fsck ubifs)17:35
alteregoSpeedEvil: the large numbers (including the units indication)17:35
fralsalterego: oh, dunno then... "SpeedAndBearingIndicator"!17:35
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: dmesg does say "recovery needed" and "recovery deferred"17:35
GeneralAntillesspeedometer and compass17:35
javispedroif ubifs does crc checking by default (and I think it does)17:35
alteregoI'm trying to make a general widget :P17:35
alteregoIt could be speed, distance, well, anything, this is part of my components ..17:36
SpeedEvilalterego: 'large number overlay' ?17:36
jonwilok, booting back into meego17:36
alteregoSpeedEvil: not necessarily and overlay either :P17:36
alteregoOh well, "NumberIndicator" it is then ..17:36
TermanaI think really you had your heart set on NumberIndicator from the start, but you wanted to consult the channel so when people laugh at you later you can say no one came up with anything better17:37
javispedrorecovery deferred should only appear if mounted RO17:37
alteregoTermana: not realy, I don't like the name but it's all I can come up with :P17:37
jonwilok, something has happened and its working now17:37
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: it gets mounted ro17:37
DocScrutinizerjonwil: haha17:38
MohammadAGprobably a reboot kicked it back into clean state17:38
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DocScrutinizerprobably the screwed mounting process and late module loading made the difference17:39
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: consider to prepare sth for the "masses" from your experience :-)17:40
DocScrutinizere.g a scriptfile or whatever17:40
jonwilok, lets see if it boots17:41
jonwilnow that I restored /etc/dbus-1/system.conf from an old old rootfs copy I had17:41
DocScrutinizerwhould shouldn't it?17:41
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DocScrutinizeras long as you haven't killed /opt ;-P=17:42
jonwilok, same error, says "cant chdir to home directory /home/user"17:42
DocScrutinizeror flashed a kernel that doesn't match the modules17:42
jonwilneed to go back to meego and find out why17:42
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DocScrutinizerhmm, are you sure your installing of meego to eMMC hasn't completely messed up things on eMMC for maemo - incl /home at large?17:43
jonwilnope, dont think so, will check17:43
MohammadAG_I_'m very sure of that ;)17:43
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DocScrutinizerwell, go to meego, mount the home partition, do some checks17:44
DocScrutinizermight be messed up by unclean unmount or whatever17:44
DocScrutinizerfsck might help17:45
DocScrutinizerif it's mountable and accessable from meego, and still has same partition number and label and fs type, I can't see what's wrong with /home. Has to be some additional mess you made in maemo then17:46
jonwilnow it claims "wifi is not available on this device"17:46
jonwilin meego this is17:47
jonwillet me try a reboot17:47
jonwilof meego17:47
jonwilsee, this is why the N900 is so cool17:47
jonwiltry doing THIS on an iPhone or Android17:47
DocScrutinizerconsider occasional removal of battery ;-)17:47
jonwilwould having R&D mode left on be interfering with some of this stuff?17:48
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DocScrutinizer5s should be enough to reset whatever usual hw, and still might keep your RTC17:48
jonwilok, firstly, lets boot meego again then see if I can see wifi17:49
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DocScrutinizerthere were some weird reports of R&D getting in the way for something I forgot what it's been17:49
javispedrowow, magnetometer returns raw data in muT17:50
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: fair enough, what else? :-)17:51
jonwilok, lets turn off R&D and try the battery thing17:51
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: getting true bearing from magnetic is pain17:51
javispedroalso, one reading every 16ms17:52
DocScrutinizerbut getting proper raw values from bearing is impossible ;-)17:52
DocScrutinizer16ms? \o/ makes a nice cable detector17:52
DocScrutinizernote to self: cablefincer app17:53
jonwilok, booting meego with R&D off17:53
jonwilhaving done the battery thing17:53
* jonwil hopes his wifi isnt shot somehow17:53
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DocScrutinizerI guess you just spotted another bug in meegoCE17:54
javispedro"Driver spends approximately 16ms between starting the read to returning."17:54
jonwilare there low level commands I can try to check wifi?17:55
alterego22 people 11 devices ..17:55
alteregoGotta give Quim credit, working on a Saturday.17:55
DocScrutinizerwell, if that means the readings are same timeframe, then it's mre than appropriate for detecting 50/60Hz magnetic fields17:55
alteregoYou think you can use the magnetometer for detecting live cables?17:56
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alteregoIt'll only work when the circuits are actually _on_ though17:56
DocScrutinizeralterego: yep17:57
DocScrutinizerand yep17:57
alteregoLike, you'd have to have all your lights on, mains plugs on with stuff plugged in etc.17:57
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alteregoStill, it sounds like an awesome idea.17:57
alteregoHas anyone done anything similar in iPhone Android camp?17:57
DocScrutinizerindeed, I think it is an awesome idea :-D17:57
DocScrutinizernfc, what's iPhone?17:57
alteregoIf you want a nice QML UI ;)17:58
jonwilso yeah how can I get wifi going again on this thing in meego? :P17:59
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jonwilor how can I mount my emmc?18:00
alteregoI've had another thought, wrt digital compass18:00
trxstill not refused nor accepted..18:00
alteregoMy phone is always in my pocket same orientation, means it's pointing in roughly the same direction in my local geometry.18:01
trxgot mail from Quim, to explain further my intentions.. :)18:01
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MohammadAGjonwil, also got that bug on MeeGo, rebooting fixed it18:01
JaffaHmm, browser on N950 can't SSL handshake with (forum.)meego.com18:01
jonwiltried rebooting already18:01
alteregoSo from that, if you recoreded readings from GPS, accel & compass, you could then use that to create an avatar of yourself in a virtual world, which included the direction you were looking.18:01
DocScrutinizeralterego: I'm happy to offer the low level stuff and leave the "nice QML UI" to you18:01
alteregoDocScrutinizer: sounds like a plan.18:01
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* alterego starts modifying his custom compass widget to display digital compass and GPS heading data.18:02
jonwilok, my ext3 filesystem (opt etc) mounts fine in meego18:04
jonwilno errors18:04
jonwilor issues18:04
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jonwilok, so I am stuck as to the next step18:05
jonwilI cant get wifi going in meego so backup-and-reflash isnt simple18:05
* GAN900 sighs18:06
GAN900Good thing the N950 is coming18:06
jonwilgoing to power off again, pull battery and see what goes18:06
GAN900The cellmo on this thing seems to be slowly dying.18:06
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jonwilideas would be appreciated...18:08
alteregoGAN900: wassup?18:09
alteregoHow can you tell? Are you talking about N900?18:09
DocScrutinizerjonwil: use your 1GB uSD for backup, reflash18:10
* alterego wonders how digital compass can help with panoramic photos18:10
jonwilok, good idea18:10
alteregojonwil: alternativel just use scp if you're in meego18:10
alteregoOr, usb mass storage mode.18:10
DocScrutinizerGAN900: I wanna 'join' SnapGo team, on a consulting basis18:11
GAN900alterego, don't receive text messages18:11
GAN900until I reboot18:11
alteregoGAN900: eek :D18:11
GAN900and it doesn't have a data connect until I reboot18:11
GAN900DocScrutinizer, OK, you're in. :P18:11
alteregoHow long have you had it?18:11
GAN900Since end of last year.18:12
jonwilI cant get any wifi from meego18:12
jonwilalso the backlight is now dark18:12
alteregoGAN900: if you want an N8 upgrade send it to Nok repair ;)18:12
alteregojonwil: usb ..18:12
GAN900I'll wait until the N9s are out18:12
GAN900Maybe I'll get lucky18:12
alteregoI doubt it ..18:12
alteregoI think I might work on my digital compass+accel orientation widget :)18:13
alteregoIt's a sphere, obviously ^.^18:13
jonwildoes meego include usbnet by default?18:14
alteregojonwil: it's the default state yeah18:14
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jonwilok, so how do18:15
jonwilI use usbnet then if it wont work on linux18:15
jonwilon my gentoo18:16
jonwilI can see the drivers on windows18:17
jonwilfor obex, phonet18:17
RST38hGoogle mystified other participants in an auction for patents last week by their choice of bids. They weren't the round regular numbers that are normally expected. After first bidding $1,902,160,540  a reference to Brun's constant  and later bidding $2,614,972,128 for the Meissel-Mertens constant, they ended up submitting a bid for $3.14159 billion.18:17
jonwilwhat do I do to use usbnet?18:17
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jonwilok, found the info18:18
Shapeshifter what is this about? magic speed patch, did anyone try it?18:18
RST38hIn the rest of the auction Google also bet the distance between the earth and the sun and a few other odd values.18:18
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RST38hShapeshifter: bullshit.18:19
jonwilnope, cant get usbnet to work on windows or linux18:20
ShapeshifterI love how they all spell 'overclock'...18:21
ShapeshifterPS: DIDN'T OVERLOAKED18:21
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: WTF?!18:22
RST38hDoc: Which F are you relating to?18:22
DocScrutinizerGoogle's F18:23
DocScrutinizerdo you see the 14 "F" in "Google"?18:23
DocScrutinizerA: a word with 14 "F" - Q: What's Google?18:24
RST38hDoc: I see 10^100 in Google18:25
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: overlocaking  ROTFL18:31
DocScrutinizermere GOLD >> 6-) Also Noticed that overcloaking while the patch is installed gets more effective  ex: without the patch overloaking to 700 mhz gives no better performance   But when the patch is installed overloaking to 700 mhz is just like overlocaking to 900 mhz without the patch18:32
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griwow, quim gil works on saturdays? 4th round is there18:33
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hiemanshuwow nice18:33
MoonTigerhiemanshu, hey :)18:33
DocScrutinizerno news on the Launchpad / Device Distrubution front though :-S18:34
DocScrutinizerI gather nobody's working on Saturdays in Tampere ;-D18:34
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: be patient, and rant about aegis :P18:34
MoonTigerso just a quick follow up from last night... when i run the app without starting it from the qtcreator madde thing it works18:34
MoonTigerwhats wrong with the aegis thing?18:34
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DocScrutinizerMoonTiger: It's the incarnation of DRM and trusted platform as invented by the copyright industry -basically it disowns you from your device18:35
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MoonTigerDocScrutinizer, and its on the N9???18:36
hiemanshuMoonTiger: maybe because you are placing the db in the wrong palce?18:36
DocScrutinizerMoonTiger: it's on N95018:36
MoonTigerhiemanshu, i think its to do with the way it gets run from the madde thing18:36
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: what is?18:36
DocScrutinizerMoonTiger: nobody knows if it will be on N918:36
MoonTigerDocScrutinizer, unbelievable18:36
MoonTigerno way im buying one then18:36
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: what sort of drm?18:37
hiemanshuMoonTiger: ah ok18:37
MoonTigeri mean it has to be on the N9 no? they are in bed with MS now and if the dev device has it it will have to be on the prod device no?18:37
DocScrutinizerMoonTiger: wait and don't worry, aegis might get nuked before any N9 hits the market18:37
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: what is it meant to do?18:37
MoonTigerDocScrutinizer, im still not sure about the N9 .... i have an android device if i want touch screen .... i want a keyboard18:38
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: dunno what it's *meant* to do on N950, the question however is what it *can* do and what it *will* do18:38
MoonTigerhiemanshu, the madde ting starts the app from a remote ssh link .... i wonder if it is running as a diff user id18:38
jacekowskiwhat is it doing now?18:38
hiemanshuMoonTiger: developer mostly18:38
DocScrutinizergetting in the way ;-D18:38
MoonTigerthat doesnt have write permissions for the db file18:39
MoonTigeror something18:39
jacekowskiwhat is going to stop working if you just disable it?18:39
MoonTigermakes no sense tho18:39
MoonTigerjacekowski, prolly the media decoding etc18:39
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you can sorta disable it, but then no more access to "trusted" parts18:39
MoonTigerotherwise no point having it there18:39
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: so 11 devices and 22 people left18:39
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I don't follow closely anymore, but sounds about right18:40
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I checked :P18:40
hiemanshuI barely know a few people out of the 25018:40
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ali1234did anyone get any forther with the rootfs.lzo?18:40
DocScrutinizerhi ali1234 :-D18:41
ali1234i posted a script to uncompress it earlier18:41
DocScrutinizerI've heard no success stories with this special "lzo" flavour18:41
ali1234but the resulting fs image is not mountable despite being obviously uncompressed18:41
ali1234so i must have not quite got all the subtleties18:41
MohammadAGali1234, how did you uncompress it?18:42
DocScrutinizeryou uncompressed it?18:42
ali1234it's not a lzop file at all18:42
hiemanshuali1234: did you try using ndb for mounting it?18:42
ali1234lzop is like a zip file with archive records, this is just one big file18:42
jonwilgoing to go the mmc route18:42
ali1234but it's split into chunks and each one has a header, then you lzo decompress each chunk18:43
jonwiland back up my rootfs to my microsd18:43
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: check meego developers wiki, topic security framework (or sth like that)18:43
ali1234hiemanshu: i only tried to loop mount it, it didn't work, sais invalid journal inode18:43
* ShadowJK thought lzo and lzop were different compression formats18:43
ali1234ShadowJK: no, they are not18:43
hiemanshuShadowJK: lzo is format, and lzop is the app used to compress/decompress lzo18:44
ali1234even that isn't really correct18:44
SpeedEvilOh well - my request for reconsideration for n950 was turned down. Not surprising really - the apps section of my proposal was paper thing.18:44
ali1234lzop is to lzo what tar and gzip are to libgz18:44
infobotali1234 meant: lzop is to lzo what tar and gzip are to zlib18:45
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: a pity nevertheless, your contributions to wiki alone were more than worth it, to enable other devels do their job18:46
SpeedEvilI should have started learning Qt a month earrlier.18:47
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: so how long are the devices being loaned to us for?18:47
hiemanshuor is really even a loan?18:47
GAN900As long as needed.18:47
ali1234theres a wiki page somewhere that says "as long as required"18:47
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SpeedEvilhiemanshu: I don't think anyone has been asked for their dev n900s back.18:47
GAN900hiemanshu, Nokia often uses the term loan.18:47
SpeedEvilI may be wrong.18:47
hiemanshuGAN900: ah ok18:48
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: N900 is a mass product18:48
GAN900It seems to infrequently relate to the actual definition18:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: true18:48
GAN900But it's easier on the taxes.18:48
DocScrutinizerobviously Nokia is short on N950 though18:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: But n950 in 6 or 12 months time is not going to be desired.18:48
DocScrutinizerI gather as much, yeah. OTOH another devel might urgently need a device in just 8 weeks18:49
DocScrutinizerso those N950 definitely are no giveaways18:49
SpeedEvilA mail every x weeks saying 'These are new proposals for n950 dev' - if you're not using your n900 for development, please consider returning it at our cost, so we can send it to someone who can better use it' ...18:50
SpeedEvilwould be a good plan.18:50
DocScrutinizerwill probably happen18:51
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ZogGi want n950 =)18:53
psycho_oreosdon't we all :p18:53
hiemanshuwell I have quite a few apps to write/port, and then I want to help out with the meego-ce on the N95018:53
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DocScrutinizerit's debatable if "helping meegoCE" is a valid rationale for keeping this particular loaner19:00
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DocScrutinizerprobably increasingly will be, on time passing by19:01
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dm8tbrit quite sure will be as nokia is not going to put its employees to help with it forever19:03
hiemanshuwell I remember someone telling (not sure if its true) that nokia is making 10k N950s19:04
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DocScrutinizersounds reasonable though19:04
DocScrutinizerstarting the manuf line for 500 or 1000 is nonsense19:05
hiemanshuwhy only 250 to community devs then? thats very low19:05
MoonTigermaybe they are making prod versions too?19:05
MoonTigeri would buy one19:05
DocScrutinizerthere've been other rants about a planned 96k units19:06
DocScrutinizerreal rumour though19:06
MoonTigeri still think the N950 was a prototype run of a planned device that got scrapped19:07
DocScrutinizeropening up the developer programe to mere mortal might be a way for Nokia to go. Still no warranty except for DOA, no support, no marketing...19:08
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alteregoMoonTiger: the N950 was supposed to be released last year Q4 as the N919:08
alteregoBut it got delayed, a lot19:09
SpeedEvilCan anyone address at what time harmattan looked 'ready to ship' ?19:09
MoonTigeralterego, right so why are there so few?19:09
DocScrutinizerthen there were issues with carriers not appreciating the mech quality, allegedly19:09
alteregoMoonTiger: because it got scrapped.19:09
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: The hinge design looks damn fragile.19:09
MoonTigerthey *must* have made more than 250 for a supposed prod launch19:09
MoonTigerthats what i said19:10
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: right19:10
* MoonTiger sighs19:10
alteregoMoonTiger: no, but yes, they've made a lot more, but it never got to the point of production being ramped up for general sale.19:10
MoonTigeralterego, i don't think they did make a lot more19:10
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: isnt it similar to the E7 one?19:10
alteregoSo there are a lot more than 25019:10
MoonTigerbut we will all find out later i guess19:10
alteregoMoonTiger: believe me there is in the region of thousands of them19:11
alteregoPossible even 10s of thousands.19:11
SpeedEvilThey were going to give them out free toeveryone in the world, including babies.19:11
MoonTigeralterego, i will believe you ... when i see them19:11
SpeedEvilTake over the market!19:11
alteregoThe 250 figure is purely what has been alotted for free open source developers through MeeGo.com19:11
alteregoMoonTiger: you'll never see them becauser they're not for sale.19:12
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MoonTigerwell they cannot possibly sell anything with no warranty or support19:12
alteregoThey're packaged as devkits for the N919:12
MoonTigerit is illegal in most of the world19:12
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* alterego sighs19:12
MoonTigeralterego, i mean see them as in... when they either start selling or someone finds a container full of them at the bottom of the sea19:12
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alteregoNo one will sell them, I already told you, they're not for sale.19:13
alteregoWhen has anyone said they were ever for sale?19:13
MoonTigerand i already said i dont believe they exist in the numbers you claim19:13
alteregoNo one ..19:13
alteregoThat's because you're an idiot that can't read ..19:14
MoonTigerhmmmmm thanks19:14
MoonTigermaybe you could work on your conversation skills?19:14
alteregoYou obviously don't know what you're talking about, you said there are only 250, which is bullshit.19:14
SpeedEvilIf you're at the point in the dev program where you've got a bug-free bit of hardware (or bug free enough) and the production chain is debugged - then 1K or so doesn't make sense to make.19:15
MoonTigerwhat i said is clearly visible up the screen19:15
SpeedEvilIt's much more expensive per unit than 5k or 10k19:15
MoonTigerif you cannot understand it try rereading it19:15
* MoonTiger shakes head19:15
SpeedEvilAnd if you are committed to selling it - you don't want to waste the cash, when you can make the things 30% cheaper.19:15
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alteregoIf you'd done some research, you'd know 250 to be distributed for developers through, There's about 50 being distributed through Qt Ambassador programme, there were about 30 given out in Helsink meego meetup this week, and developers can get them through nokia launchpad to devel apps for the N919:16
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alteregoThere are also a fair few prototypes in the hands of some people in Nokia and outside that helped develop the platform.19:17
DocScrutinizerMoonTiger: alterego: please gentlemen, stay polite19:17
MoonTigeralterego, if you cannot a) have a reasonable conversation without getting personal, or b) cannot read then please don't bother19:17
MoonTigerDocScrutinizer, agreed19:17
ali1234250+50+30 = over 9000, right?19:17
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alteregoMoonTiger: ali1234 I said potentially, as they're pushing for apps through commercial vendors using them as devkits.19:18
alteregoThere are certainly in the rage of thousands19:18
alteregorange ..19:18
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MoonTigeralterego, i know you want to believe that is so but until we see them we cannot know ... or have you actually seen them?19:19
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alteregoMoonTiger: no, but they're not going to give all of them to free open source developers when they want commercial application support.19:20
jonwilthis is pissing me off, I cant get usb networking working on either linux or windows, I cant get wifi going in meego and I cant get n900-meego to switch into mass storage mge19:20
DocScrutinizerMoonTiger: there are enough sound indicators to bet on a 4 digit number of N950 existing, if not more19:20
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MoonTigerall i am saying is when i see them i will believe it ... nokia have f**ked up enough lately and are now in bed with MS ... who knows what is going to happen next19:21
MoonTigerand thats *all* im saying19:21
alteregoMoonTiger: you're never going to see them, why do you think you will?19:21
MoonTigernobody has seen them19:21
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MoonTigerwhen they start to appear either for sale or for more developer give aways etc etc19:22
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DocScrutinizernobody will ever see >500 N950 on a pile anywhere ever19:22
MoonTigerif they exist we will see them *one day*19:22
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alteregoMoonTiger: Nokia Launchpad19:22
DocScrutinizercan we change topic now please?19:22
MoonTigernokia launchpad?19:22
MoonTigeryes please19:22
MoonTigercan we19:22
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alteregoMoonTiger: by your reasoning the N900 was never for sale or mass produced.19:22
DocScrutinizeralterego: please19:23
alteregoMoonTiger: find someone that works in the Nokia warehouses and ask them how many N950 devkits there are, roughly.19:23
alteregoAnyway, i'm off, bbl19:23
SpeedEvilMoonTiger: Nokia have no motivation to sell a small number - a few K  - of an axed oen.19:24
SpeedEvilMoonTiger: Simply as it would confuse their marketing.19:24
SpeedEvilAnd could do nothing positive to the brand image.19:24
DocScrutinizerand service, and whatnot19:24
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MoonTigerplease end this conversation19:24
MoonTigeri have my opinion19:24
MoonTigeryou have yours19:24
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macmaNdoes either of your opinions matter for anything?19:25
jonwilbingo, usbnet works, I had to manually run the ifconfig command on the n90019:25
macmaNno provocation, just wondering19:25
DocScrutinizerdefinitely no19:25
MoonTigermacmaN, no19:25
hiemanshujonwil: on meego? you could use mad-developer19:25
* MoonTiger looks at the kittens19:25
macmaNok yeah then pink unicorns are the answer19:26
* DocScrutinizer hands out a token to everyone, to receive a pink unicorn via launchpad19:28
RST38hDoc: is it edible?19:28
DocScrutinizermade of rubber ;-P19:28
DocScrutinizerlike boots19:29
RST38hDoc: you mean, not edible but humpable?19:29
DocScrutinizeror tires19:29
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ZogGis n950's battery builtin as n(?19:31
dm8tbrZogG: you can remove the back-cover if you are determined19:32
dm8tbrinside is a standard BL-4D IIRC19:32
ZogGand n9 is builtin and not for change right?19:32
DocScrutinizerkonttori said even N9 battery *can* be changed19:35
DocScrutinizerthough it's obviously not exactly as simple as on N95019:36
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fralsn950 is supereasy to change, just 4 screws19:36
macmaNok so the casing is somehow splittable?19:36
macmaNafter that its just superglue and done obv19:36
fralsonly problem is separating the backcover without breaking it ;D19:37
MohammadAGisn't it aluminum?19:37
macmaNi foresee some "there i fixed it" material in our future19:37
DocScrutinizerfrals: achipa even considers "losing" those screws part of the deboxing of N950 :-)19:37
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SpeedEvilWell - kontorri mentioned swapping n9 screens multiple times, and diddn't meantion problems.19:39
SpeedEvilWhich is a plus19:39
SpeedEvilSo it musn't be _too_ bad for a skilled person to do. The battery'd be much easier.19:39
DocScrutinizercan mean different things19:39
alteregoI think there's a few screws then the screen and all should just pop out19:40
DocScrutinizerthat's what konttori said19:40
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JaffaBTW, the N950 box has a program listing on it. Typing it in was like typing in BBC Model B programs from a computer magazine in the 80s.19:40
JaffaUnfortunately, no qmlviewer, so I'll have to wait to fire it up in Qt Creator <sigh/>19:41
JaffaLooks like it tweets something when you press a button19:41
alteregoYeah makes sense from some pics I've seen19:41
fralsJaffa: heh19:42
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fralsJaffa: watch the source *carefully* before trying it ;)19:42
DocScrutinizerJaffa: lol - what does the program do?19:42
fralsSpeedEvil: did he say he switched the screen himself?19:42
SpeedEvilfrals: I think so.19:43
fralsDocScrutinizer: pretends to send a tweet while in reality it might doing something less than that nice :)19:43
SpeedEvilkonttori_home: SpeedEvil, yeah, tons of times when I was changing the display to my device several times a day between different display batches.19:44
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alteregoJaffa: what do you mean by source? Shell commands or summink?19:45
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DocScrutinizerfrals: he also said the screen is probably >50% of the device's value in hw, iirc19:46
fralsguess it might be easy once you do it. none in my team has dared doing it since its nigh impossible for us to get our hands on (spare) devices19:46
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: probably because of the branded "Gorilla Glass"19:46
macmaNJaffa: yeah self signed ssl certs are frcked19:46
alteregoIt's like Karl Zeiss, they pay for the branding,19:46
macmaNJaffa: what about OCRing that biatch19:46
alteregoNokia actually manufacture the optics, but they go through a CZ certification.19:47
macmaNmaybe they stored the program in a qr code somewhere on the box too19:47
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jonwilok, so I think I am finally close to having a working phone again. Plan is to copy off the contents of my rootfs now that I can do it19:50
jonwiland then reflash19:51
jonwilI am not sure which flash files I need to flash though19:51
SpeedEvilWhat did you need that was on the roots to bother?19:51
jonwilnot 100% sure but I know I need things from it19:52
SpeedEvilA howto would be awesome.19:52
infobotwell, flashing is
jonwilok, given that I have meego on there, what steps do I take to keep meego but re-flash maemo?19:53
jonwilI mean meego on emmc alongside maemo19:53
DocScrutinizerjonwil: follow the steps in there^^^  - then maybe add a uBoot enabled kernel to dualboot19:53
Jaffaalterego: It's a bunch of QML19:54
DocScrutinizeror follow whatever else been your favourite method to boot into meego19:54
Jaffafrals: Let me guess, it actually says "don't give your password away, n00b"19:54
Jaffafrals: I feel it'd be cheating to just type the URLs in on my desktop though!19:54
jonwilok, good I dont need to flash emmc, just combined19:55
jonwilor maybe only kernel19:55
jonwilnot sure at this point19:55
jonwilwill try kernel only first19:55
jonwilthen combined19:55
jonwiland if that doesnt work, emmc19:56
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: you'll need full combined I'd say19:56
jonwilwell lets try and see19:56
DocScrutinizeraah, well, yes try kernel only first19:57
jonwilhow do I know which country version I want?19:57
jonwilbeing aussie I am guessing global19:57
DocScrutinizeryou always want international19:57
DocScrutinizerglobal that is, yeah19:57
jonwilso I want the one labeled "Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 "?19:57
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jonwilok, great19:57
DocScrutinizernevertheless make sure it's the right version19:58
jonwilyep, thats it19:59
DocScrutinizerMR0 is global iirc19:59
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jonwilnow I just need to emerge an sftp client to copy the current rootfs contents off20:02
jonwilwhich I am doing now20:02
ruskieif you have ssh you have scp ;)20:02
jonwilyeah I have scp but its a pain20:03
jonwilbesides, I need a good FTP client on my gentoo box anyway20:03
jonwilfilezilla ftw20:04
ruskiewhy is it a pain?20:04
jonwilits just annoying20:04
ruskieactually probably the best way is plain ssh20:04
jonwildue to how things are mounted20:04
obcecadohave you tried lftp ?20:04
jonwilalready emerging filezilla20:04
jonwilwhich should work just fine20:04
ruskietar whatever | ssh remotehost "cat > file.tar"20:04
ruskiethat's how I do the backup ;)20:05
ruskiecan do the same thing with dd ;)20:06
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jonwiljust need to wait for wxwidgets to finish emerging20:09
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hiemanshuthis is why you should run a binary distro :P20:10
ruskiejust stop using all those 200mb in ram graphical tools20:10
hiemanshuor just use a binary distro :P20:11
fralsJaffa: I actually don't know for sure, but from the quick glance I had it sent the username and password to some IP server which looked less than trustworthy ;)20:12
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fralsor s/IP/web/20:12
jonwilI like gentoo :)20:13
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ruskiehiemanshu, binary distros lock your choices unless you rebuild 90% of them20:13
ruskieI don't want to use udev, hal, *kit, and a bunch of other completly pointless tools that actually don't give me any benefit unless I bother configuring them...20:15
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Jaffafrals: I could change my Twitter password for two seconds ;-)20:15
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DocScrutinizerin IRC publishing such stuff is a kickban :-P20:17
DocScrutinizerI'm amazed Nokia publishes same stuff printed on a box20:18
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JaffaIt's quite cool as a concept20:20
JaffaSince it's a "dev kit"20:20
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: could you list the box content?20:23
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: The box? It contains an N950, a quick start guide, a USB cable20:24
JaffaIt's about 3/4 of the size of a CD-ROM drive20:25
DocScrutinizerI'm puzzled it has no charger, gathered that from the quickstart quide as of FCC but thought it's just a fuzzy part of the description there20:26
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* DocScrutinizer wonders idly about fastcharger detection scheme used for N9(50)20:26
JaffaPlugged it into a std USB cable and my car socket -> USB port adapter and it said "Not enough current to charge"20:28
dm8tbrmeh, doesn't recognize the short- d+ and d- thing?20:30
dm8tbrbecause IIRC that's what all the chinese cheap chargers are doing, or was it a resistor?20:30
Jaffadm8tbr: I dunno if the car charger does that. Most things on the market seem to be *really* lax on that point; only Nokia get stroppy20:30
DocScrutinizermost cheap noname chargers simp,y do nothing, neither D+- short nor ID-pin resistor, nor the screwed apple-alike resistor voltage-deviders on D+ and D-20:32
DocScrutinizerjust because there are so many different conflicting methods to signal fastcharging, it puzzles me a bit that Nokia doesn't give a solid hint on what's going to be used for N920:34
DocScrutinizermeh, I'll have to find out about the hardware - then I'll know for good20:35
dm8tbrI'd expect they'll be compatible with themselves?20:35
dm8tbriow the nokia plug chargers with micro-usb connector20:36
DocScrutinizeryoh, quite probably20:38
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DocScrutinizer(btw those do D+- short, just in case you wonder)20:42
hiemanshuruskie: well, really doesn't matter much to me, I can work around them :P20:43
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JaffaYeah, Nokia seem to take the spec literally, word for word. Whereas everyone else is variable and/or aims for Apple compatibility20:46
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Atariiis there anyway to specify in the "Desktop Entry" .desktop file that an application should run fullscreen (without the toolbar) ?20:46
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JaffaAtarii: Only if the app supports such a command line option, AFAIK20:47
Atariiok thanks20:49
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jonwilfinally have a phone that seems to work again, just reflashed rootfs21:23
jonwiland I think its booting21:23
jonwilthen all I need to do is copy old settings from old rootfs21:23
jonwiland boom, phone works again I hope21:23
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jonwilok, now its sitting at the ..... screen and doing nothing21:24
jonwilI never thought I would be so happy to see the Nokia hands logo21:24
hiemanshujonwil: just wait for a bit21:24
hiemanshujonwil: hah21:24
jonwilgood, my emmc is fine21:25
jonwilso I havent lost my wallapers21:25
achipaDocScrutinizer: it's not a consideration - it's a fact ;)21:25
jonwiloh wait, spoke too soon21:25
DocScrutinizerachipa: :-D21:26
jonwilso yeah given that my phone works again and that its now 2:30am here, I will turn off R&D mode and go to bed21:26
jonwilthen tommorow I restore the missing bits of my phone21:26
jonwiland then install whatever that thing is that can autobackup every possible user setting and autorestore without much work21:27
hiemanshuhmm, seems interesting21:27
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Atariido the "script to speed up your N900" from the forums actually work?21:28
achipaSpeedEvil: as for the screen switch - yes, doable, but you need to know what you are doing, and certainly not something I'd recommend 'on the go' (unlike the N9[0|5]0 which you can reload while hanging from a helicopter)21:30
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jonwilso yeah I have decided not to mess with files in /etc in future21:32
jonwilalthough I now have a simple means to restore my phone to health without much work should I need to21:33
jonwili.e. boot into meego, use usbnet, fix it (or back up then reflash)21:33
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: have a look at robiethe1st's backupmenu21:46
jonwilyeah I plan to21:46
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fralshm, anyone happens to have any solid information on LTE deployment worldwide?21:46
DocScrutinizeras long as linux starts up at all, you should be able to restore from backupmenu within seconds21:47
DocScrutinizerif the linux kernel doesn't start up at all, you'll have to reflash rootfs and install backupmenu21:47
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DocScrutinizerfrals: allegedly in Sweden or Finland or Norway they have some cities where LTE is available to the public21:49
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fralsDocScrutinizer: yes, Stockholm (.SE) and Oslo (.NO) has had it for ~years now... Saw someone claiming US is leading LTE deployment thou21:50
fralswhich kinda took me by surprise21:50
fralsbut then on the other hand i never understood what is the official definition of LTE, since some consider WiMax == LTE21:50
DocScrutinizerthey market some thing called 4G over there, but it's not clear to me what exactly this is21:50
fralsand then some devices are labeled 4G but seem to be 3.5G only according to spec sheet21:51
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fralsDocScrutinizer: thanks21:53
fralsapparently "leading deployment" means most LTE basestations... which might be true, since I guess SE/NO/DK needs a lot fewer base stations per country than US, heh21:54
DocScrutinizeralso the LTE = WiMax idea probably stems solely from the all-IP design of LTE that's of course also found in WiMax21:57
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DocScrutinizer>>Part of the LTE standard is the System Architecture Evolution, a flat IP-based network architecture designed to replace the GPRS Core Network and ensure support for, and mobility between, some legacy or non-3GPP systems, for example GPRS and WiMAX respectively.<<22:01
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vi___what does the 'powersave' function in screen settings do?22:22
SpeedEvilhow long the screen waits till blanking22:24
SpeedEviloh - the ohter one?22:24
vi___it is a tickbox22:24
SpeedEvilIt dims the backlight if there is a dimp picture22:24
SpeedEvildim picture22:24
SpeedEvilwith no bright white on it22:24
DocScrutinizeryep, seems it's directly related to that function in LCD module22:25
DocScrutinizerdynamic backlight foobar22:25
DocScrutinizerIt can massively reduce power consumption on e.g watching videos22:27
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DocScrutinizervi___: the idea is that it makes no sense to power up BL to full brightness just to dim down the whole screen to black via the LCD22:27
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vi___I guess I should have it switched on then!22:29
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DocScrutinizerprobably yes ;-)22:29
DocScrutinizerdunno why it's user selectable at all22:29
vi___how can I toggle allowing TS to wake up n900?22:30
vi___If I enable autolock TS does not wake it up22:30
vi___if I disable AL, TS will wake it up22:31
vi___which is good22:31
DocScrutinizerwell, you *might* notice adverse effects e.g on a completely black screen with a small blinking white dot. With dynamic baclight you may notice distrubing effects in the black area die to black in LCD is never 100%22:31
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vi___However when I change the value of AL gconf it has no effect22:31
vi___do you have any thoughts in this?22:32
DocScrutinizerprobably an mce related issue rather than gconf22:32
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DocScrutinizeralas mce isn't really flexible on configuration of handling many of the functional details, and mce is closed as we all know22:34
vi___so I should try restarting mce...what is the safest way to do this? stop mce, killall mce, pkill mce, dsme <somthing. mce?22:34
DocScrutinizerstop, sleep, start22:34
DocScrutinizermay still cause nasty effects22:35
DocScrutinizerbut, see above... ^^^22:35
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DocScrutinizerI'd really like to see mce RE'd, rather than the much-tackled bme22:38
DocScrutinizerand mce even has better chances to get cloned, now that a later version is FOSSed for meego22:39
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vi___does anyone know anything about gpe-calendar on the n900?22:45
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vi___specifically howTF I can get it to sync with anything.22:50
vi___i.e. documentation that wasnt written in 2005 for the N77022:51
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DocScrutinizerwb javispedro22:52
DocScrutinizervi___: prolly gpe-calendar is kinda orphaned22:52
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vi___godammit the is annoying22:54
vi___there seems to be NO combination of calendar/sync/tasks that actually works22:54
* GeneralAntilles fails to see email from (minus Ovi spam) and goes to change a car battery.22:55
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: its called filters :P22:55
javispedroHELO DocScrutinizer22:56
hiemanshuhey javispedro22:56
javispedrolove how to spam refers to me as "Dear Mr. Maemo"22:56
javispedros/how to/how/22:57
infobotjavispedro meant: love how spam refers to me as "Dear Mr. Maemo"22:57
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DocScrutinizerkarma dropped "Blogs" and distributed the 4 points equally to Itt-thanks and discussion ;-P22:58
* DocScrutinizer wonders who's constantly messing around with this nonsense22:59
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: AEGIS! :P23:00
DocScrutinizerand DAMNIT could this thing finally get renamed to tmo-thanks KTHNXBYE23:00
* DocScrutinizer yawns23:01
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vi___n900 calendar==completely fucking useless23:07
javispedrovi___: you better get used to it. not going to find anything better.23:07
vi___its not fair23:08
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MoonTigerhiemanshu, i got the db stuff sorted out now .... thnx again for the help :)23:09
MoonTigervi___, whats wrong with it for you?23:10
hiemanshuMoonTiger: np :D23:10
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cehtehhey emacs runs on the n900 you can use its calendar and org-mode at least :P23:11
vi___and say that to my face23:12
cehtehbut really .. the n900 calendar is a joke23:12
cehtehyeah bad for you .. but emacs has a vi emulation too :P23:12
vi___ape it's betters aye?23:12
cehtehresistance is futile :P23:12
hiemanshuvi___: sure, vi is not emacs, but enter is a punctuation mark either23:12
cehtehhas vi a calendar?23:13 has line edit mode23:13
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xur17I need to get a package removed from extras-devel (I previously uploaded a package with an incorrect version number, so now I can't upload one with the correct version number).23:15
xur17Is anyone in here able to do that?23:15
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xur17Or know who I need to speak to?23:16
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* RST38h has built all his stuff for the goddamn Android23:20
* DocScrutinizer really wonders why there's no rollback23:20
DocScrutinizer/kick RST38h23:21
javispedrohigh treason23:21
RST38hDoc: Don't add insult to the injury...23:21
javispedroRST38h: when are you trying iOS? :)23:21
RST38hjavispedro: the next day after I exit the closet!23:22
* DocScrutinizer hands RST38h a nice large bucket23:22
javispedroYou will probably find iOS more sane than android... except for their "only Mac dev-tools" policy.23:22
RST38hjavispedro: Kinda don't wanna try23:23
* DocScrutinizer idly hits F5 another time............23:23
ieatlinti dunno, obj-c is pretty insane23:24
javispedroieatlint: compare to java.23:24
RST38hanother C preprocessor23:24
RST38hjulst like C++ :)23:24
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RST38hjavispedro: I have abstracted the java!23:24
ieatlintjavispedro: java looks less crazy23:24
javispedroobj-c can be implemented with a plain old pure text preprocessor23:24
javispedrojava is insane23:24
RST38hjavispedro: it is safely locked in EMULib/Android/Java23:24
ieatlinti tried java once23:25
ieatlintlet us never speak of it again23:25
DocScrutinizerobjC used for NeXTstep - can't be bad23:25
RST38hjust different23:25
javispedroRST38h: are you sure it is your library wrapping java, or java wrapping your library? =)23:26
RST38hjavispedro: prefer not to think about it23:27
javispedroyou still probably need to change it every time you do any new application, if only to change package/class names23:27
hiemanshuI learnt Java in school, now I am braindead23:27
RST38hjavispedro: No, I spent half a day today fighting this particular problem23:27
RST38hjavispedro: And now the evil toad has been defeated23:27
javispedroI bet the answer includes use of a preprocessor =)23:27
RST38hthought of that but it would be cheating23:28
hiemanshuwell there is
piggzthe message sending syntax in obj-c scared me the first time i saw it...i was looking through the code for a simple library, thinking...wtf23:29
hiemanshuwhich uses Qt Creator23:29
piggzhiemanshu: and works really quite will23:29
javispedrohiemanshu: and I'm sure it works as good as Gtk+ on Harmattan.23:29
ieatlintnecessitas isn't terrible23:29
ieatlintjust no qtmobility, and don't go near widgets23:30
hiemanshujavispedro: well its decent23:30
hiemanshujavispedro: better than java23:30
ieatlintneed to do GUIs in qgraphicsview or qml23:30
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, any ideas about what IRC client we should use for Harmattan?23:32
cehtehemacs :P23:33
cehteh.. err how about xchat?23:33
RST38hGAN: There is a KDE client23:33
RST38hGAN: I willtry portingthat23:33
RST38hXChat is probably a no go23:33
GeneralAntillesRST38h, and by "we should use" I mean. "you'll find time in your busy schedule for me to grovel at your feet in appreciation".23:33
cehtehwhy that?23:33
cehtehno gtk?23:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, XChat is kinda bloated for the purpose anyway.23:34
RST38hSomething likethis - KIRC23:34
ieatlintirsii is generally what works best on small screens23:34
RST38hlooks likeit can be compiled without KDE too23:34
GeneralAntillesieatlint, well, I hereby nominate you to package it.23:34
* cehteh configured his xchat to be nice on small screen23:34
hiemanshuRST38h: there is quassel2go for maemo23:34
javispedroprobably we could very easily get enough of gtk+ working to get xchat working decently23:35
GeneralAntillesYeah, XChat on Maemo is quite nice.23:35
hiemanshuRST38h: and a meego version is being worked on23:35
ieatlintGeneralAntilles: i usually run mine over ssh on a server in a screen session23:35
cehtehdont make a too simple irc client ...23:35
javispedrohildon apps are another story..23:35
GeneralAntillesieatlint, ah, yeah, good point.23:35
cehtehlook at modest :P23:35
* GeneralAntilles <- too much time in GUI client land.23:35
hiemanshuI like Quassel, works like irssi + screen, but with a nice GUI23:36
RST38hhiemanshu: would prefer a fully functional one23:36
hiemanshuRST38h: you can use it as a standalone client too23:36
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ali1234ok, i got the rootfs.lzo unpacked for real this time23:37
ali1234successfully mounted and everything23:37
ali1234script here:
ali1234Hurrian: ^23:38
* RST38h still needs to update his stuff for Symbian^323:39
RST38hOh shit, Android emulator is stuck again.23:41
RST38hCan they at least make it run for longer than 15 minutes?23:41
piggzali1234: so, just copy /usr to your n900 and see what happens ;)23:42
ali1234i will let someone else do that23:42
* GeneralAntilles wonders about bothering to target Symbian^323:43
cehtehwhat will happen to QT when microsoft buys nokia?23:43
cehteh(in about 10 months or so :P)23:44
RST38hGAN:Well, got existing customers23:44
RST38hGAN: + it is not exactly dead yet!23:44
piggzs40 maybe23:45
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javispedrofunny you mention it, cause there's a lot people wondering whether to bother targeting harmattan.23:45
GeneralAntillesHrm, I guess Qt Components doesn't work with the Qt SDK's design mode?23:45
javispedroand I really hope they decide to do so.23:46
piggzclearly the n9 is going to be such a success it will force nokia to rethink its msft partership ;)23:46
RST38hjavispedro: I will target Harmattan even if it is simply a form of protest :)23:46
RST38hjavispedro: More specifically, I would like to add QML to my list of skills and attempt doing that project I toldyou about23:47
javispedroobviously we are all are :D23:47
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* javispedro curses my stupid tendency to doubleword things.23:47
* javispedro blames backwards english grammar vs native language's.23:48
* RST38h opens a window, wonders what happens if the thunderstorm does strike tonight23:48
GeneralAntillesSilly Spanish23:48
RST38h- There are languages where two negatives mean a positive23:49
RST38h- There are also languages where two negatives mean a negative23:49
MohammadAGyo yo yo sup homies23:49
RST38h- But there is no language where two positive mean a negative!23:49
RST38h- YEA. RIGHT.23:49
hiemanshuMohammadAG: nm, dawg :D23:49
vi___MohammadAG: goodevening homeslice.23:50
javispedroand there are also languages where a single negative means a positive. usually spoken by women.23:50
RST38hjavispedro: that is not language, that is logic!23:50
MohammadAGhiemanshu, yo dawg, I heard you like keyboards, so I removed them, sincerely, Nokia23:50
RST38hi.e. stays valid in any language23:51
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I heard you like to hack, so I added aegis, love, Nokia23:51
MohammadAGactually, let's make that follow the meme23:51
MohammadAGyo dawg, I heard you like keyboards, so I put a keyboard in a keyboard and removed both, so you curse elop while you curse elop while hacking aegis!23:52
RST38hI think you have got a looping virus, folks23:52
javispedroRST38h: good point.23:52
vi___yo dawg, I heard you liked keyboards so we put one on a phone you cannot buy. So you cant type on a phone you dont own.23:53
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MohammadAGRST38h, yo dawg I heard you like loops, so we put a loop in your loop so you can wtf while you wtf23:55
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vi___/s/so you can wtf while you wtf/so you can recursivley wtf23:56
vi___/s/so you can wtf while you wtf/so you can recursivley wtf/23:56
* RST38h knows a coding-related joke about loops. It is too tasteless to tell outside a junior programming class though.23:56
vi___now you have aroused my attention23:56
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