IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-06-30

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Jaffa	SpeedEvil: I have no idea how on earth different NFC devices communicate	00:00
mece	MohammadAG, I wouldn't worry... :)	00:00
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: Patience, my padawan learner.	00:00
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javispedro	MohammadAG: man, from all the people that have been omitted from the list, you're the only one who a) half of the channel has said you deserve one b ) half of TMO has said you deserve one.	00:00
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, was just pissed an hour ago, ignore the rant	00:00
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Don't fear, there are other ways to get you one.	00:01
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, not looking into them ;)	00:01
X-Fade	MohammadAG: But just wait for this round and we'll see what happens.	00:01
javispedro	MohammadAG: so, I wouldn't worry =) I'm sure Jaffa will send you his =)	00:01
Jaffa	MohammadAG: You won't need to.	00:01
MohammadAG	I'd rather get one the same way everyone did	00:01
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MohammadAG	not through developer.nokia.com :P	00:01
MohammadAG	Anyway, there's tomorrow	00:02
Jaffa	MohammadAG: It's all the same place.	00:02
MoonTiger	is QSqlQuery binding really as broken as it appears to be with sqlite?	00:02
mece	MohammadAG, but then you wont get the special MAG edition version, with rocket boosters	00:02
Jaffa	MohammadAG: All Quim's doing is setting up the provisioning with Ronan & developer.nokia.com.	00:02
X-Fade	There are just multiple people with a stack of phones. Doesn't matter where it comes from.	00:02
MohammadAG	mece, no lasers? pfft	00:02
Jaffa	MohammadAG: There's the Qt Ambassadors, which is a developer.nokia.com programme.	00:02
MohammadAG	I'm no ambassador :p	00:03
Jaffa	MohammadAG: As X-Fade says, there's a bunch of phones to give out.	00:03
mece	MohammadAG, well I didn't think lasers needed mentioning. Who'd want a phone without lasers??	00:03
MohammadAG	Again, will wait for tomorrow	00:03
Jaffa	Anyway, I'm amazed the TMO crowd think you should have one. CSSU will take a back seat to Harmattan development and all the N900 owners will be screwed.	00:03
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javispedro	Jaffa: ssshhhh!!	00:04
mece	LOL	00:04
MohammadAG	you'd be surprised :p	00:04
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X-Fade	We should seriously think about a CSSU for Harmattan though..	00:04
MohammadAG	I'm not killing the CSSU, whether I get an N950, or turn to Android	00:04
mece	X-Fade, hear hear	00:04
MohammadAG	the latter seems to be something I would do if I'm drunk	00:04
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SpeedEvil	X-Fade: I suppose how important it is depends on how the n950 is configured. But I can't imagine it's going to be that more open than the n900 that the importance fades away.	00:05
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, getting a CSSU won't be easy	00:05
Sc0rpius	don't turn to Android	00:05
Sc0rpius	I have an Android tablet	00:05
Sc0rpius	and I want to kill it	00:05
MohammadAG	remember the thing we all know and love? starts with Aegis	00:05
mece	MohammadAG, new lockscreen looks ace btw!	00:05
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Oh, there are ways :)	00:05
Sc0rpius	I wish I could put Debian on it	00:05
SpeedEvil	I guess that the 'reverse engineering' that's been done for the n900 at least sets the scenes for the general idea behind getting under teh skin of the n950	00:05
* Jaffa has just remembered one of his Harmattan app ideas that he missed off his application. (Event feed notifications of train platforms with some geolocation awareness and configuration of your regular journey)		00:06
RST38h	Sc0rpius:Send it over here I will kill it for you	00:06
mece	Sc0rpius, which tablet?	00:06
Sc0rpius	:)	00:06
javispedro	RST38h: the tentacled one will not forgive you for that	00:06
Sc0rpius	it's a Coby Kyros MID7015, one of those cheap chinese 7" tablets	00:06
MohammadAG	X-Fade, dpkg -r aegis* is one	00:06
RST38h	javispedro:he is ok about it, having recently eaten	00:07
MohammadAG	:p	00:07
Sc0rpius	Android is slow, and lack of a real multitasking annoys me	00:07
javispedro	poor openSL es committee	00:07
mece	the bypassing/removing aegis must be top priority for the community.	00:07
X-Fade	MohammadAG: We'll discuss it when you have one in hands :)	00:07
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RST38h	javispedro: why do you think these madmen are poor?	00:07
Jaffa	mece: Not if doing so cripples functionality :-/	00:08
SpeedEvil	Virtualise aegis!	00:08
mece	Jaffa, well that's the hard part isn't it?	00:08
MohammadAG	X-Fade, s/when/if/ :P	00:08
* javispedro hits MohammadAG		00:08
* mece pats MohammadAG on the back there there don't worry		00:08
X-Fade	I have a feeling that agis is not too bad for us atm, but that is all I'm going to say about that. :D	00:08
Jaffa	mece: Getting rid of it is easy: go to open mode and set the policy to be unrestricted. What that means in terms of functionality...	00:09
Jaffa	X-Fade: +1	00:09
* MohammadAG cries on mece's shoulder		00:09
mece	Jaffa, well that's why it needs to be bypassed and not removed..	00:09
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: And more importantly - what that means for the functionality of the n9 as configured for sale.	00:09
MohammadAG	ALL I WANTED WAS A LASER EQUIPPED PHONE sob	00:09
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: Coincidentally, I am considering buying a laser to make a soldering iron with.	00:09
MoonTiger	MohammadAG, you do a lot of qt stuff right?	00:09
RST38h	why do you need a phone whe you have already got a mfcking lase?	00:10
RST38h	r	00:10
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X-Fade	Going to get some sleep. More Harmattan work tomorrow.	00:10
MohammadAG	ahem, back to being serious	00:10
MohammadAG	MoonTiger, done some Gtk alongside, but yes	00:10
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MoonTiger	i am having a real problem with sqlite bound parameters in a qsqlquery	00:10
RST38h	Android App Downloads Now Total 4.5 Billion!	00:11
MoonTiger	lkeps failing with "parameter count mismatch"	00:11
MohammadAG	SQLite isn't Qt :p	00:11
RST38h	(how do they count?)	00:11
MoonTiger	ok the qt qsqlquery class	00:11
MoonTiger	when used with sqlite	00:11
MohammadAG	RST38h, fingers, why do you think they have many employees!	00:11
MoonTiger	have u any experience with this?	00:11
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* javispedro pats MohammadAG and points him to #idonothaveann900, a channel I founded two years ago		00:11
MohammadAG	nope, never used SQLite	00:12
MoonTiger	MohammadAG, ok thnx .... what do you use for storage then?	00:12
MohammadAG	javispedro, you serious about the channel part?	00:12
MohammadAG	MoonTiger, QSettings	00:12
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MohammadAG	or manual writing with QFile	00:12
MoonTiger	qsettings .... hmmmmmmm	00:12
MoonTiger	ok thnx	00:12
javispedro	MohammadAG: I do not even remember the full name, but, oh the fun we had on it waiting for the n900! ;P	00:12
mece	is daperl on the list btw?	00:12
MoonTiger	its just for account credentials	00:12
MohammadAG	lmfao!	00:12
MohammadAG	MoonTiger, oh, I'd use some encryption library	00:13
MohammadAG	plaintext is umm, bad	00:13
* MohammadAG looks at Sony		00:13
MoonTiger	MohammadAG, yes i will but then i can store the data in qsettings rather than use sqlite maybe	00:13
MoonTiger	but i want to cache data offline and settings doesnt seem good for that	00:13
MoonTiger	maybe a flat file	00:13
MoonTiger	annoying that sqlite is broken	00:14
mece	MoonTiger, how is it broken?	00:14
MohammadAG	QFile and QDir::standardLocation(CacheLocation) ftw	00:14
MohammadAG	or sth like that	00:14
MoonTiger	mece .... a prepared statment in qsqlquery always fails with "parameter count mismatch"	00:14
MohammadAG	sure it's not pebcak? :P	00:15
MoonTiger	pretty sure ... i spent 4hrs trying every possible combination and permutation ... then i just used sprintf for testing and it works	00:15
MoonTiger	and qsqlquery::executedquery returns the string with the placeholders still in it	00:16
MohammadAG	Jaffa, grr, now someone on tmo is suggesting they don't want me to have a device cause of the CSSU, see what you did? :P	00:16
MoonTiger	when the docs say it should have replaced them	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	please do not mess up account credentials on server and their doubtlessly mandatory encryption with the storing of accounts on client side where encryption is a complete nonsense	00:16
MoonTiger	DocScrutinizer, ?	00:17
MohammadAG	MoonTiger, what site is this?	00:17
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Yeah :-(	00:17
MoonTiger	site?	00:17
MohammadAG	most places use OAuth2 or XAuth	00:17
mece	MoonTiger, so this example: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qsqlquery.html#exec doesn't work?	00:17
MohammadAG	service, site whatever	00:17
MoonTiger	mece, the first example works fine	00:17
MoonTiger	no bound values	00:18
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javispedro	MohammadAG: post another trollface picture on that thread so as to put it back on the right path.	00:18
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MohammadAG	javispedro, u mad bro?	00:19
MoonTiger	MohammadAG, i am just writing a lil identica client for now	00:19
MohammadAG	MoonTiger, no token system?	00:20
MoonTiger	not for now	00:20
MohammadAG	My laptop's been lagging like shit lately	00:20
MohammadAG	well, IRC on my laptop	00:20
MoonTiger	but even if use oauth for twitter i still need to store the token rather than the credentials	00:20
MohammadAG	storing a token is better than storing credentials	00:20
MohammadAG	the user can deny access that way, rather than changing the pass	00:20
MoonTiger	MohammadAG, yes i know all that .... its the sqlite brokeness im trying to figure out right now	00:21
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MoonTiger	i will encrypt the credentials whatever they are anyways	00:21
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MoonTiger	ok well anyways.... i will go file a bug report	00:22
MoonTiger	thnx :)	00:22
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DocScrutinizer	MoonTiger: (encryption) it's nonsense to encrypt anything with a password that's also available on same machine	00:25
MoonTiger	DocScrutinizer, yah i had wondered about that and trying to set up a webservice to use for the encryption	00:26
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MoonTiger	then use a token on the client	00:26
MoonTiger	etc etc	00:26
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DocScrutinizer	there's no way to protect user from his passwords/credentials	00:26
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MoonTiger	DocScrutinizer,yah thats where i go to as well	00:27
DocScrutinizer	either store then crypted and make user enter master password, or just forget about all encryption	00:27
MoonTiger	and asking a amster pw everytime is just not realistic	00:28
MoonTiger	mster too	00:28
MoonTiger	master	00:28
DocScrutinizer	so you have to live with passwords stored on your client, and if they are then damn sure better in plain text so user can mange them	00:28
MoonTiger	is the qt source code available anywhere btw?	00:28
MoonTiger	hmmmmmm	00:29
MoonTiger	identica doesnt support oauth yet	00:29
GeneralAntilles	Did anybody start in on cleaning up the wiki?	00:29
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DocScrutinizer	??	00:31
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: what particularly?	00:31
GeneralAntilles	Table-ize the accepted list	00:32
GeneralAntilles	I see not, though.	00:32
DocScrutinizer	rm -r /allthewiki?	00:32
DocScrutinizer	aah	00:32
alterego	quim wants it like it is so it's easy to edit.	00:33
Jaffa	X-Fade: lardman\|gone: I've added bits about projects & repositories to http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS after my playing today	00:38
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MohammadAG	alterego, a table would be easier in this case	00:43
Venemo	hiemanshu, hey! I see your name too	00:43
MohammadAG	Name \| Project	00:43
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Venemo	MohammadAG, please call them and get them to their senses	00:44
Venemo	it is outrageous that you are not on the list.	00:44
MohammadAG	Venemo, I'll wait till tomorrow	00:44
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Venemo	thp, Jaffa, alterego, Conny, hiemanshu myself, and anyone who did a thing at Maemo has gotten one... I think that your name should appear in that list right now. especially because of the Community SSU	00:46
Venemo	think about it	00:46
Venemo	who is gonna make a Harmattan community SSU if not MohammadAG?	00:46
Jaffa	Venemo: Please calm down. The MohammadAG-oriented mobbery could end up being counterproductive.	00:47
Jaffa	Not that you're too bad, but I've just read the TMO posts about "Nokia being embarrassed by the success of the CSSU, so they're punishing MAG"	00:47
MohammadAG	Change the subject, I'll wait till tomorrow	00:47
Jaffa	I mean, it's just ridiculous.	00:47
SpeedEvil	Venemo: stskeeps has prior convictions in the area of community OSs.	00:48
Jaffa	MohammadAG: How does the BT aspect of BTM working?	00:48
Jaffa	s/working/work/	00:48
infobot	Jaffa meant: MohammadAG: How does the BT aspect of BTM work?	00:48
SpeedEvil	I also noticed some bluez developers on the list	00:48
MohammadAG	anyone know of some good movies? something released in 2011 preferably	00:48
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Is it a new BT profile (a la OBEX, A2DP, ...)? Or does it build on top of an existing one?	00:48
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Tremors. 20 years old, but still great.	00:49
Venemo	Jaffa, I understand and agree with your point of view. but still.	00:49
MoonTiger	if anybody could tell me if they see anything wrong here i would be very grateful: http://pastebin.com/FB4HSxib	00:49
MoonTiger	thnx	00:49
MohammadAG	Jaffa, Qt Mobility, socket servers	00:50
Venemo	MohammadAG, dunno about any good 2011 films yet	00:50
javispedro	rfcomm iirc, MohammadAG Jaffa	00:51
MohammadAG	javispedro, heh, you remember well :p	00:51
javispedro	MohammadAG: I've asked you many times I think and then I was not sure again, hehe.	00:51
MohammadAG	Venemo, The Adjustment Bureau was good	00:52
Venemo	haven't heard about it	00:52
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GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, Tropic Thunder.	00:53
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GeneralAntilles	"Relaxed, casual, portrait web browser." doesn't sound like anything I want.	00:54
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Could've been worse, they could've thrown "social" in there too	00:55
MohammadAG	lol	00:55
* GeneralAntilles shudders.		00:55
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Venemo	GeneralAntilles, you getting an N950 too?	00:58
GeneralAntilles	Evidently.	00:58
SpeedEvil	Congrats.	00:59
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: SnapGo sounds cool. The idea of clock synched post-geolocation is genius.	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, been floating around in my head for a while.	00:59
GeneralAntilles	I've seen it implemented on iOS.	00:59
Venemo	GeneralAntilles, congrats then :)	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Hard part is getting plug-ins put together for all of the big photo managers.	01:00
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully some interested photographers will pitch in there.	01:00
GeneralAntilles	How do you get 2,600 Thanks! and post something like that. . . .	01:01
GeneralAntilles	Talk really has fallen.	01:01
Jaffa	?	01:01
MohammadAG	Jaffa, just went over the list	01:01
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alterego	Hah	01:01
Jaffa	GeneralAnittles: I seem to have missed a jump in the conversation.	01:02
MohammadAG	the CSSU suggestion is actually ridiculous :P	01:02
MohammadAG	most CSSU contributors are on it	01:02
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, marxian on the N950 devkit thread.	01:02
GeneralAntilles	The conspiracy theories.	01:02
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Ah	01:02
Jaffa	MohammadAG: No, RST38h told me that you're the only one who's done any work on the CSSU.	01:02
MohammadAG	Let's not start that one again :p	01:02
Jaffa	True.	01:03
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Chosen a film?	01:03
MohammadAG	Remember I spent some time learning gtk and annoying javispedro just to write an applet to give thanks	01:03
MohammadAG	nope, not yet	01:03
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: I suggest not picking "Fallen Down"	01:03
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MohammadAG	anyone seen The Hangover II?	01:03
GeneralAntilles	Thor wasn't unreasonably entertaining.	01:04
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, walked out.	01:04
* javispedro _needs_ to watch Rat Race again		01:04
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MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, why?	01:04
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GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, it's awful.	01:04
MohammadAG	not as good as I?	01:04
GeneralAntilles	Mediocre summer-comedy sequel awful.	01:04
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GeneralAntilles	Priest was also entertaining.	01:05
GeneralAntilles	If a bit destroyed by the studio when they cut it down.	01:05
* Jaffa beds.		01:06
GeneralAntilles	Ooh, Source Code was fun.	01:06
Jaffa	Yeah, that was alright	01:06
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Jaffa	Quite good	01:06
Jaffa	Very 12 Monkeys, meets Quantum Leap, meets Groundhog Day, meets Moon	01:06
MohammadAG	only thing I hated about it is the train scene being played about 10 times	01:06
GeneralAntilles	Jane Eyre was good, too, though I doubt that's what you're looking for. ;)	01:06
MohammadAG	night Jaffa	01:07
Jaffa	night	01:07
javispedro	gnite Jaffa	01:07
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javispedro	Source code was good?	01:08
javispedro	oh well.	01:08
javispedro	(didn't see it)	01:08
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alterego	Meh	01:16
alterego	GeneralAntilles: I'm watching Jane Eyre right now	01:16
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alterego	Source was so-so tbh	01:16
MoonTiger	is 4.6.2 the latest version of qt for maemo?	01:20
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alterego	We have 4.7 in devel I think	01:21
MohammadAG	4.7.4 is latest upstream for maemo	01:21
MoonTiger	my qtcreator is building with 4.6.2	01:21
MohammadAG	update it then	01:22
MoonTiger	how do i do that??	01:22
MoonTiger	uh goot it	01:22
MohammadAG	Source code has the most irrelevant title ever, but the movie was good	01:22
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MoonTiger	ummmm odd the sdk update tool finds nothing to update	01:23
MoonTiger	but its building with 4.6.2	01:23
MoonTiger	i have 4.7.3 for desktop	01:24
MoonTiger	how do i get that for maemo?	01:24
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MoonTiger	maybe this damn sqlite bug has been fixed	01:24
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alterego	Well, the title is less ambiguous in philosphical terms. But yeah, was a bit oddly named :D	01:26
MohammadAG	alterego, expected tarballs in the movie, got some trains exploding	01:27
MohammadAG	that's not source code!	01:27
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alterego	MohammadAG: I think it references the code that can become life ;)	01:31
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MoonTiger	is it qt libs for embedded linux i need?	01:34
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alterego	mad-admin xdpkg	01:35
alterego	it is your friend.	01:35
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divan	MohammadAG, I can't see you in the N950 acceppted list :( Hope it will be updated tomorrow//	01:36
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MoonTiger	alterego, how does this help me update to 4.7.3 from 4.6.2?	01:37
MoonTiger	ahhhhhhh	01:39
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iphaRa	hello, i'm tyring to install gcc on my Nokia N900, so i got it from here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_armel/gcc-4.2/4.2.1-4maemo13+0m5/	01:41
iphaRa	installed all armel dependancy packages as root with dpkg -i	01:41
iphaRa	however now that i want to see if a simple "hello world" compiles, but after "gcc-4.2 test.c", i get this:	01:41
iphaRa	http://pastebin.com/60168GNj	01:41
iphaRa	how can there be no stdio.h? :(	01:42
SpeedEvil	you want to install build-essentials, not gcc	01:42
iphaRa	ok, let me google that to see what it is	01:43
MohammadAG	stdio.h is in libc6-dev	01:43
iphaRa	..i've got libc6-dev also installed	01:43
iphaRa	it's part of the gcc package from the link above	01:43
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SpeedEvil	Also - it makes more sense to copy / to /home/user/chroot or something - and then chroot into it and install build-essentials in that	01:44
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iphaRa	alright.. http://maemo.org/packages/view/build-essential/ ^_^	01:45
iphaRa	SpeedEvil: so you're saying, make a separate dir; install it there	01:46
SpeedEvil	yes	01:46
SpeedEvil	Otherwise you can easily run out of space on /	01:47
SpeedEvil	which is bad.	01:47
alterego	And the penny drops ..	01:49
alterego	My work here is done. I'll be seeing you tomorrow, g'night.	01:49
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iphaRa	oh fudge, SpeedEvil i just did the mistake you warned me against ...	02:00
iphaRa	i thought that by 'dpkg -i /home/user/MyDocs/deb *armel.deb' will install all in MyDocs/deb	02:00
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iphaRa	/ has 75% thogh, probably normal :)	02:23
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divan	Is there any platform defines in Qt for WeTab version of Meego? Something similar for Q_WS_MAEMO_5 in Maemo..	02:30
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MohammadAG	no, not until the next update	02:34
MohammadAG	contains(MEEGO_FLAVOR, Harmattan): DEFINES += Q_WS_MAEMO_6 may work	02:34
MohammadAG	1119 2 root RW 0 0.0 87.5 [sgx_misr] :/	02:36
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trx	is there a reason why there is no libusb-1.0 in the repos?	02:45
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trx	i see only 0.1 there	02:45
trx	also only 0.1 on my n900 /lib/	02:45
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MohammadAG	night everyone :)	02:48
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trx	night	02:52
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iphaRa	alright,, after some googling, turns out that gcc is too much, and i could just apt-get tcc and solve all my problems in about 100KB	03:09
iphaRa	which is all ineed for a smiple classroom compiler	03:09
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Termana	good morning	03:37
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MohammadAG	morning Termana	03:49
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MohammadAG	kinda dead in here at 4AM :p	04:12
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* SpeedEvil hits MohammadAG with a duck.		04:14
MohammadAG	yay, ducky	04:14
SpeedEvil	I don't think that 4AM is what quim meant by 'more tomorrow'.	04:15
SpeedEvil	:)	04:15
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MohammadAG	Can't sleep	04:15
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MohammadAG	Not sure why, but this has been going on for some time lately	04:16
SpeedEvil	Here too.	04:16
MohammadAG	it's annoying	04:16
SpeedEvil	Sleep pattern is even more fragmented than normal.	04:16
MohammadAG	Imma end up being awake for 48 hours again	04:17
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MohammadAG	last time wasn't pleasant, I did get sociality done overnight though	04:17
SpeedEvil	:)	04:17
SpeedEvil	Main problem at the moment is that I'm not sleeping integrals of 24h. :)	04:18
* MohammadAG tries to finish Nothing Else Matters on guitar		04:19
MohammadAG	main problem here is I wasted 2 hours in bed trying to sleep	04:19
MohammadAG	or 1 hour	04:19
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SpeedEvil	yeah.	04:20
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GAN900	lol	04:23
GAN900	MohammadAG, melatonin supplements are useful.	04:23
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MohammadAG	GAN900, mela what?	04:25
GAN900	Hormone that triggers tiredness.	04:26
GAN900	Helps you fall asleep	04:26
MohammadAG	I'm already tired	04:26
MohammadAG	just can't sleep :p	04:26
MohammadAG	too tired to do anything productive actually	04:26
GAN900	Right, it'll do away with the insomnia	04:26
MohammadAG	heh	04:27
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SpeedEvil	The wikipedia page seems to paint melatonin as bringing world peace, and raising the dead.	04:29
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GeneralAntilles	Well, it's Wikipedia.	04:32
GeneralAntilles	Everybody with an axe to grind a lots of free time goes there.	04:32
GeneralAntilles	So it's basically an encyclopedia written by nutjobs.	04:32
SpeedEvil	In some areas it's useful.	04:32
SpeedEvil	In areas where people have strong opinions - maybe less so.	04:33
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* MohammadAG tries sleeping again		04:36
MohammadAG	night, I hope	04:36
GeneralAntilles	'luck	04:36
SpeedEvil	Good luck!	04:37
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* divan had a lot of sex with WeTab OBS build service.. The words build system ever and looks like almost unmaintained.		07:12
divan	night was soo long :)	07:12
divan	s/words/worst/	07:13
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Ken-Young	Gee - fighting with a build service counts as sex? I'm a stud, and I didn't even know!	07:16
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frals	Jaffa: and the next day corporate security is knocking on my door asking for it ;)	07:40
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GAN900	Jaffa, they want your N950 back?	07:47
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GAN900	Er, s/Jaffa/frals	07:47
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* GAN900 rewatching season 13 of South Park reminds me that Cartman's Poker Face is probably the greatest cover ever.		07:48
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frals	GAN900: who knows, i guess by the time im fired none will care thou ;)	08:15
frals	GAN900: and mine is slightly different than the DDP ones ;(	08:15
GAN900	512MB, eh? :P	08:15
frals	nah	08:16
GAN900	Purple?	08:16
frals	just says property of nokia and some other crap	08:16
GAN900	Ah, yeah	08:16
GAN900	Still got that RX-51 in a drawer here.	08:16
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* GAN900 should send it back to Peter.		08:17
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macmaN	hmm am i supposed to be able to import my contacts from n900 over bluétooth to n950? its not seeing the n900, while regular pairing went fine	08:27
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petteri	so is the new terminal app on n950 any good?	08:29
macmaN	it looked good while i was doing apt-cache search git	08:30
macmaN	what is there to look out for?	08:30
macmaN	im really really liking the new media player	08:30
macmaN	it has favorites and a very nice ux flow between activities and use cases	08:31
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frals	macmaN: n900 -> n950 contacts over bt should work fine	08:32
frals	macmaN: saw someone do it yesterday at the meetup	08:33
macmaN	hrm	08:35
macmaN	frals: who are you irl, are you in the meetup list?	08:35
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macmaN	hrm so whats wrong with my contact sync i wonder	08:41
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macmaN	ahh, initiating it from n900 side worked	08:45
macmaN	through the totally intuitive "Get Contacts" menu item in N900 Contacts menu	08:46
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frals	macmaN: yes ;)	09:09
frals	macmaN: Nick	09:09
macmaN	cool	09:13
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peetah	hi all	10:36
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peetah	someone can tell me how to enable/disable screen dimming and blanking with a shell command line ?	10:37
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peetah	the appropriate values to pass to dbus-send would be great	10:38
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RST38h	moo all	10:41
mece	RST38h, STOP! Mjolnir time! http://pics.livejournal.com/no_detective/pic/000e7ch8	10:42
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:44
mece	\o	10:44
RST38h	Moo, Jaffa	10:46
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RST38h	Jaffa: I know this sounds stupid, but how do I edit the Meego Wiki page? Need to add a link to the web page	10:47
mece	RST38h, log in, click edit?	10:48
RST38h	When I click on LOG IN, it moves me directly to my account settings	10:48
RST38h	i.e. I appear to be logged in	10:48
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Termana	mece, why does he have a handbag?	10:50
SpeedEvil	Morning Jade.	10:51
Termana	(joking btw)	10:51
SpeedEvil	Jaffa:	10:51
Jaffa	RST38h: Log out. There's a bug with the credentials sharing with MediaWiki	10:51
Jaffa	RST38h: Log out and back in again and you should be good to go	10:51
mece	Termana, I believe that is his hammer, mjolnir :)	10:53
RST38h	Jaffa: Aye aye	10:53
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MohammadAG	morning	11:01
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cloudyLights	hi MohammadAG	11:02
cloudyLights	MohammadAG: may I ask, why are you so involved in QT on meego now?	11:02
cloudyLights	what was the reason to start using QT?	11:03
MohammadAG	I'm involved in Qt on MeeGo?	11:03
cloudyLights	are you working on a specific app?	11:03
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cloudyLights	you seem to write here a lot regrding qt 4.7.1	11:04
cloudyLights	and such	11:04
cloudyLights	I mean you where the one asking to switch to 4.8 in the cssu, right?	11:04
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MohammadAG	asking? no, I ran 4.8 for a day	11:05
cloudyLights	ok, so you are using qt on maemo to develop a media player - right?	11:06
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MohammadAG	it's on git and tmo	11:06
MohammadAG	right now, I don't have any projects at hand	11:06
cloudyLights	may I ask why did you start writing a media player in qt?	11:06
cloudyLights	I mean , I didnt see this here	11:07
MohammadAG	That was December	11:07
MohammadAG	http://mohammadag.xceleo.org	11:07
MohammadAG	find the post there	11:07
cloudyLights	o ok	11:07
cloudyLights	I am waiting for the guy that wrote pypackager to show up	11:08
cloudyLights	I used the netmon to log cellular data, but need to work on the logging	11:09
cloudyLights	I right , that when I reach the right busstation, I get the same cellid	11:10
cloudyLights	so my app may seek to "see" when cellids change in a known order then , alert me	11:10
cloudyLights	and I can leave it on all the time	11:11
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chem\|st	now it is getting on my nerves... is there anything I can do about facebook not uploading pictures (built in share thing)	11:13
MohammadAG	delete the account, and readd it	11:14
alterego	chem\|st: it stopped working for me a while ago, deleting all your accounts and recreating it worked for me.	11:14
MohammadAG	I should push the sociality update	11:14
edheldil	delete the account and NOT readding it should work too, shouldn't i_	11:15
edheldil	?	11:15
pabs3	hmm, LWN editors are hinting that they would like to review the N950	11:15
chem\|st	alterego: 23. May I can tell...	11:16
chem\|st	so deleting the share account..	11:16
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chem\|st	alterego: btw how is columbus doing?	11:16
alterego	chem\|st: not bad, been refactoring it and getting it ready to move to QML	11:17
alterego	Whilst working on the QML Ux	11:17
chem\|st	facepalm	11:17
alterego	Still got quite a lot to do though	11:17
mece	chem\|st, why the facepalm?	11:18
chem\|st	mece: I changed my password... and the share account has nothing to do with the other accounts...	11:18
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alterego	Heh	11:19
chem\|st	alterego: you did awesome with the first devel, keep up the good work!	11:19
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alterego	Thanks :)	11:20
chem\|st	alterego: as you were asking or thinking about doing a pay-for-app, if you keep the current setup free and add some awesomeness to a pay-for I am good with it^^ was using it on the last turn to find the vessel in the harbour and to find the harbour again	11:21
chem\|st	and did some waypoint tryouts	11:21
chem\|st	it crashes way to often as to being reliable for proper tracking	11:22
macmaN	pabs3: sure why not?	11:23
alterego	Still crashing?	11:23
alterego	I thought I fixed that :)	11:23
alterego	Oh, maybe I didn't release the new version.	11:23
MohammadAG	lol	11:23
alterego	:)	11:24
pabs3	macmaN: can you hook that up (I guess mail lwn@lwn.net)? anyways, article is here: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/449552/ce2407f8ccdcda48/	11:24
alterego	I should be better at maintaining the new version.	11:24
alterego	for both m5, harmattan and meego	11:24
alterego	As well as supporting tablet form factor and desktop too.	11:25
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chem\|st	FB works again	11:29
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chem\|st	alterego: don't remember any upgrades^^	11:29
macmaN	pabs3: heh, i wasnt expecting a review request, but i might have a paid approach to the review as well, so i might kill two birds one stone	11:30
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: did the SIP guy die finally?	11:30
macmaN	this sdk installer is pretty nice piece of work methinks	11:31
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pabs3	macmaN: ok cool	11:33
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macmaN	pabs3: you just motivated me to make a 1-year subscription to lwn.net	11:35
macmaN	:)	11:35
pabs3	nice :)	11:35
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* pabs3 thanks HP for sponsoring the Debian group subscription		11:35
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khertan	Morning	11:41
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cloudyLights	khertan!	11:43
cloudyLights	I need your help	11:43
cloudyLights	I used the netmon python code to log cellualr info	11:43
cloudyLights	when I ride the bus from home to work	11:44
cloudyLights	I see error in opening the dbus	11:44
khertan	i'll be back in 15 min	11:45
khertan	up the log and ll look	11:45
cloudyLights	I will paste the lines	11:45
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crashanddie	Wow	11:49
crashanddie	Dell hired some pretty bright people...	11:49
crashanddie	"'I wouldn't say it's perfectly indestructible, but it is pretty much indestructible,' Joe Stewart, director of malware research at Dell"	11:49
crashanddie	Would you say it's completely massively indestructible? No, just almost quite positively indestructible.	11:50
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ruskie	rofl	11:51
SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfBWds4HChI - on unbreakability (phones)	11:51
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cloudyLights	khertan: http://dpaste.com/561220/	11:57
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cloudyLights	how can I paste more code then dpaste?	12:02
cloudyLights	more lines	12:02
khertan	cloudyLights: org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable isn't a interface of object : /com/nokia/phone/net	12:03
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khertan	cloudyLights: what are you trying to get ?	12:03
cloudyLights	right	12:03
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cloudyLights	in http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/netmon/0.9-1/	12:04
cloudyLights	I downloaded the source	12:04
cloudyLights	then used the netmongui.py to log the cellular data	12:04
cloudyLights	this file is too big for dpaste	12:04
cloudyLights	in that file I get these errors	12:05
cloudyLights	but the program still works	12:05
cloudyLights	may I show my additions to that file/	12:06
cloudyLights	?	12:06
khertan	cloudyLights: what are you trying to do ? get the id of cellular towel ?	12:06
cloudyLights	I want to log every change in the cellular data	12:06
khertan	import dbus bus = dbus.SystemBus() proxy = bus.get_object("com.nokia.phone.net","/com/nokia/phone/net",False) cell_info = proxy.get_registration_status(dbus_interface="Phone.Net") print "complete cell info" cell_info print cell_info[2]	12:06
khertan	give you the cell towel id	12:07
cloudyLights	thanks	12:07
khertan	cloudyLights: did you read : http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Using_Location_API	12:08
cloudyLights	and then I need to look at these:	12:08
cloudyLights	print str(time())+" mnc: "+str(mnc)+" mcc: "+str(mcc)+" cellid: "+str(cellid)+" lac: "+str(lac)+" decibel: "+str(decibel)	12:08
khertan	use it to get notified of change and use a dbus call for cell_info as you can't get it in python	12:08
cloudyLights	I mean, maybe any of these fields will change	12:09
cloudyLights	so I setup a dict for the values and test if any of them change from one pool to the other	12:09
cloudyLights	netmon uses:	12:10
cloudyLights	status, lac, cellid, mnc, mcc, nettype, netservices, neterror = self.cellinfo.registration_status()	12:10
cloudyLights	and I can keep these and verify they didnt change	12:11
cloudyLights	if they do change print them out	12:11
khertan	http://pastebin.com/fLzusntG <<< a untested example	12:11
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khertan	you are trying to locate yourself using the cellular information ?	12:12
cloudyLights	as I get all the info using dbus , why would I need libcbsms?	12:12
cloudyLights	yes	12:12
khertan	so you just need cellular towel id ? right ?	12:12
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cloudyLights	looks ok	12:14
cloudyLights	I need to track any cellular data change	12:14
cloudyLights	then figure out what fields help me know I arrived	12:14
cloudyLights	cellid is most helpfull	12:15
cloudyLights	but lac may also be used	12:15
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khertan	cloudyLights: hum ... lac isn't available for wcdma	12:16
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cloudyLights	<khertan> I am soon going to eat , but I will be back	12:17
cloudyLights	I basiclly need to run that line:	12:17
cloudyLights	status, lac, cellid, mnc, mcc, nettype, netservices, neterror = self.cellinfo.registration_status()	12:17
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cloudyLights	<khertan> this cellinfo is: http://dpaste.com/561227/	12:22
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lardman	morning	12:37
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RST38h	moo lardman	12:43
lardman	hi RST38h	12:43
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alterego	"We hope you enjoy your flight!" ?	12:58
alterego	Eh?	12:58
MohammadAG	Also wtf'd at that	12:59
MohammadAG	I'm guessing he copied an email about a conference invitation and just replaced parts of it	12:59
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alterego	Hah, maybe.	13:00
Termana	alterego, what's that from?	13:00
Jaffa	alterego: I raised an eyebrow, but assumed it was a sort of "it's a bit like a booking confirmation"	13:01
frals	so MohammadAG you got one anyway?	13:01
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MohammadAG	frals, not yet, no	13:02
alterego	Yeah	13:03
alterego	Anyway, I don't want to see a template email, I want to see the damn email :)	13:04
lardman	likewise	13:05
Jaffa	alterego: :)	13:05
* Jaffa has the DDP page open, nothing on it for him yet :-(		13:05
lardman	Jaffa: what do you mean?	13:06
lardman	I saw your name on the list, what else are you looking at?	13:06
* alterego creates a wiki page in preparation		13:06
MohammadAG	I don't want to see any email, I want my name on the list :P	13:07
Ken-Young	Can't anyone edit that page and put their name on it?	13:07
lardman	yeah that was what I was thinking	13:07
Termana	lol	13:08
lardman	or some malicious editing to get people's hopes up	13:08
lardman	which would not be nice	13:08
Termana	Something tells me Quim probably has a private list and he isn't reliant on that list	13:08
Ken-Young	I'm sure that's true. But the page is an invitation to mischief.	13:09
Jaffa	lardman: There's a URL for the Forum Nokia Device Distribution Programme. It was used for N900 DDP (IIRC)	13:09
Termana	Plus, you would be able to see the douchebag that did it	13:09
Termana	(in the edit history)	13:09
lardman	Jaffa: ah ok	13:09
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Jaffa	lardman: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP - I've no idea if that'll be used to actually distribute the devices, but I'm guessing it will be.	13:10
lardman	need a premium developer account for that?	13:10
Jaffa	lardman: No idea. Does it open with your account?	13:11
lardman	nope, says I need to register for a premium one	13:11
Jaffa	Ah	13:11
Jaffa	Maybe they won't use that, then. Or there's still work to do. Or ...	13:12
lardman	no worries, I'll wait and see	13:12
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Ken-Young	It's like waiting for Willie Wonka's Golden Ticket.	13:12
lardman	perhaps I should have registered for a premium one, or there are two layers or something - the whole Nokia developer registration process was rather confusing about what I was registering for	13:12
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MoonTiger	hey guys	13:15
MoonTiger	i just downloaded the latest offline installer for the qt sdk but it has no maemo options	13:15
MohammadAG	you're not the only one I've heard that from	13:15
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MoonTiger	really??	13:15
MohammadAG	I wonder if they dropped support for it	13:15
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MoonTiger	how the f*** am i supposed to get qt 4.7.3 for qtcreator then? right now it builds for 4.6.2	13:16
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MoonTiger	:\|	13:16
MohammadAG	4.7.3? 4.7 is the last official version	13:16
MoonTiger	well right now my qtcreator builds for 4.6.2	13:17
MoonTiger	:/	13:17
alterego	Did you get it from developer.nokia.com/swipe?	13:17
alterego	Or qt.nokia.com?	13:17
MoonTiger	qt.nokia.com	13:18
alterego	That's why then ;)	13:18
MoonTiger	alterego, i am no developing for the n9	13:18
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MoonTiger	alterego, does that have the 4.7 for maemo in it too?	13:20
MoonTiger	ahhhh i see it does .... thnx :)	13:21
MoonTiger	typical nokia confusion	13:21
cloudyLights	lardman: hi	13:21
lardman	hi cloudyLights	13:22
cloudyLights	<khertan> ok, I used this http://dpaste.com/561253/	13:22
MohammadAG	technically you can install two SDKs, you'll end up with one creator and more targets	13:22
cloudyLights	so I am looking for the cellid change and loging it	13:22
cloudyLights	ok, I am thinking to do this:	13:23
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cloudyLights	when you install this app it will alwas log the last four cellids	13:23
cloudyLights	when you decide to MARK a bus station , is when you are at that location	13:24
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cloudyLights	I will then have the previous cell ids and can establish the pattern	13:24
cloudyLights	when this pattern happens again- I will alert the user	13:24
cloudyLights	ok?	13:24
lardman	cloudyLights: openbmap will give you lat lon lookups for cellids	13:24
cloudyLights	In Israel?	13:25
lardman	I'd be tempted to allow the user to grab some data from there and store it	13:25
lardman	cloudyLights: assuming Israelis have added to it	13:25
lardman	in any case we should go for a generic library/daemon from which to obtain the data so that more than one app can use it	13:26
cloudyLights	so this kind of program , will always run	13:26
* Jaffa has just got an email		13:26
Jaffa	"A Nokia N950 is waiting for you"	13:26
cloudyLights	and will allways alert on that petern	13:26
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macmaN	Jaffa ftw	13:26
cloudyLights	how much$$ ?	13:27
cloudyLights	>600$?	13:27
lardman	cloudyLights: possibly - I see something along the lines of if you have a net connection then download data for the present location and thereabouts; if you don't have a connection but the gps is on, log the current location and the cellid	13:27
MohammadAG	it's a dev device, free until the loan ends	13:27
lardman	cloudyLights: so this is the location portion, Proximus will have an api that you can use to wake your app when you get near a given location, once I finish writing it	13:28
vi__	dev device == no firmware update.	13:29
vi__	ever.	13:29
MohammadAG	I'd prove you wrong, if I had a device :p	13:30
Termana	Jaffa, lies!	13:30
Jaffa	Order placed :-)	13:30
MohammadAG	anyway, they're giving the option to trade it for an N9 when the loan is done	13:30
MohammadAG	Jaffa, one day shipping? :P	13:30
Jaffa	vi__: It runs the same firmware as the N9	13:30
Jaffa	(we think)	13:30
Jaffa	MohammadAG: "Approximate delivery time: one week"	13:30
vi__	Jaffa: No chance	13:30
* lardman repeatedly hits the "Check mail" button		13:31
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st> DocScrutinizer: did the SIP guy die finally? \|\| Inbound worked, and then I had some other duties	13:31
X-Fade	Jaffa: It runs developer edition software.	13:31
Jaffa	X-Fade: Ah, good point	13:31
Termana	Jaffa, they aren't sending the emails out one by one are they? Surely they would do something automatic...	13:31
lardman	apparently there's new software in the offing for it though isn't there?	13:31
MohammadAG	Termana, you never know insert troll face	13:31
DocScrutinizer	soooo, anything new and exciting?	13:31
vi__	DocScrutinizer: greece is about to default.	13:32
DocScrutinizer	that's not ne	13:32
DocScrutinizer	w	13:32
lardman	ah no, online firmware is older than the on-device firmware	13:32
vi__	DocScrutinizer: Edinburgh tram system has just been cancelled at a cost of 700million pounds	13:32
DocScrutinizer	hah	13:32
alterego	Yeah, that's pretty shit isn't it ..	13:32
MohammadAG	lardman, mmcblks, you can dd them	13:32
MohammadAG	I hope someone does that	13:32
vi__	alterego: what the firmware or the trams?	13:33
lardman	MohammadAG: sure, when I get one	13:33
MohammadAG	run some basic initrd, dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=flashingImage	13:33
alterego	vi__: firmware	13:33
Jaffa	Termana: They already know my developer.nokia.com ID, so I've skipped a step	13:35
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Termana	Jaffa, ah ok.	13:36
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cloudyLights	lardman: i will try to see this tommorow morning	13:37
alterego	Heh, the web browser as an "add to apps" feature that basically does what 99% of iPhone apps do built in :D	13:37
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cloudyLights	but I agree that this kind of deamon is very usefull in day to day life	13:37
Jaffa	alterego: Combine that with something like Oculo and it'd be very cool	13:38
cloudyLights	for example "remind me to send this mail when near my post"	13:38
cloudyLights	btw, as buses use gps now, to announce the next station, they can offer an api	13:38
vi__	where is the schedule for alarmd stored?	13:40
DocScrutinizer	you'd think meanwhile somebody would've bothered to turn http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Results into a proper 1) 2) 3) table/list	13:40
DocScrutinizer	obviously no mediawiki cracks interested in that page	13:41
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: qgil said he'd find a not-table easier to work with and ppl to add to	13:42
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DocScrutinizer	cough	13:42
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Well, indeed.	13:44
DocScrutinizer	isn't quim a It dude? wouldn't he think about semantic tagging a bit? mandatory "Name: ", so you could still wc -l somehow	13:44
DocScrutinizer	IT*	13:44
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DocScrutinizer	meh	13:45
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alterego	Jaffa: you got your email?	13:45
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Jaffa	alterego: I skipped the one about "send your developer.nokia.com ID to *******@nokia.com" as they already had it. So I moved on to the next bit, where they've put it into your account as available through the DDP	13:46
alterego	Oh!	13:46
Jaffa	alterego: I keep pressing "refresh" on the order status to see if it changes to "Shipped", but I suspect they'll do batches of devices out to DHL	13:46
alterego	So I should be able to order mine with me developer.nokia.com account?	13:46
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Jaffa	alterego: I got an email from no.reply-developer@nokia.com, subject "A Nokia N950 is waiting for you"	13:47
vi__	arn't you bothered that the n950 is the MOST dead ended of dead ends?	13:47
alterego	Jaffa: oh, :(	13:47
alterego	Jaffa: was your nokia developer account linked to your submnission?	13:48
Jaffa	vi__: Well, no, cos a) it's a new toy which meets my requirements; b) it's free (loan); c) it's faster than qemu for developing apps for the N9	13:48
Jaffa	alterego: No. I think they just know it.	13:48
lardman	hmm, still no email, a watched email account never receives an email from Nokia, or was that kettles?	13:49
Ken-Young	No email for me, either.	13:49
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lardman	Is your surname Youg?	13:49
lardman	Young even	13:50
Ken-Young	Yup	13:50
lardman	Mine is Pickering, so perhaps they've made it to F(legg) but no further	13:50
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	13:50
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DocScrutinizer	I hope quim is at least using c&p for sending the mails	13:51
DocScrutinizer	otherwise, if I had to send 200 mails, that'd take ~200h	13:52
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* khertan 's email account refresh rate exceeded		13:52
DocScrutinizer	but my mailer allows multiple "to:", even multiple "BCC:" ;-)	13:53
chem\|st	hmm password recovery seems to not send mails to my usual account...	13:53
MohammadAG	everyone has a different ID	13:54
MohammadAG	tbh I'd script it	13:54
DocScrutinizer	mail ftw	13:54
DocScrutinizer	man mail	13:54
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: I didn't get an email from Quim	13:55
DocScrutinizer	thought as much	13:55
DocScrutinizer	ok, cleaned out my cookies so the "session-end" meego.com cookie didn't stop me from logging in anymore ;-P	13:57
DocScrutinizer	...til next logout I guess XP	13:57
lardman	hmm still no Nokia email but I did finally get paid £340 in expenses which was a nice email to see too	13:58
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DocScrutinizer	mails from nokia tend to end in my spamfilter regularly, as they manage to mess up quite a lot with their mail accounts and mailers. No proper RDNS or sth, meh I forgot what my sysadmin explained to me between the 50% swearwords	14:00
lardman	I think I have all spam scripts turned off	14:01
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, Nokia on my whitelist now :-o	14:02
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DocScrutinizer	before my sysadmin did that, the mails were not even delivered, so no trace of them even in spam-bin	14:03
lardman	yeah that's my worry too	14:04
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia on Openmoko's mail-whitelist - kinda funny	14:06
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cehteh	mhm .. we all should thank elop .. in about 1.5 years nokia will be a penny stock and we can buy it up :P	14:09
vi__	cehteh: Im not really into investing in wellie boots	14:09
cehteh	oh damn .. i forgot, thats the secret plan from M$ for acquireing it	14:09
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alterego	I think I'm gonna do an N950 unboxing (my first unboxing) and I'm going to say, "Yeah, it runs Maemo6 Harmattan"	14:19
alterego	"Oh, I mean MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan"	14:19
trx	lol	14:19
alterego	Oh that boot up screen is quite nice.	14:20
* mgedmin is green with envy		14:20
lardman	re magnetic field lines, is there a readily available model that can also give a latitude?	14:20
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: hi :-)	14:20
lardman	I'm thinking the measurement accuracy might need to be quite high for this	14:21
* mgedmin waves vaguely		14:21
lardman	s/latitude/longitude	14:21
lardman	hi mgedmin	14:21
macmaN	alterego: you gonna hd-record the unboxing?	14:21
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: do you still run your own irc logger?	14:21
mgedmin	yes	14:21
alterego	macmaN: yup, with the N8	14:21
macmaN	word up	14:21
* alterego chuckles		14:21
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: does it still log #openmoko-cdevel?	14:21
mgedmin	and it still doesn't have sane text search	14:21
alterego	Actually, I don't even know if I'll get the N8 in time ..	14:21
mgedmin	did it ever log #openmoko-cdevel? I don't think so	14:22
mgedmin	if you don't see povbot in the channel, then it's not logging anything	14:22
DocScrutinizer	aah	14:22
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DocScrutinizer	so let's invite the sucker ;-)	14:22
mgedmin	sure, I can set it up	14:22
mgedmin	while cursing supybot's pain-in-the-posterior configuration interface all the time	14:23
DocScrutinizer	hmm, strange, I bet I've seen nicely formatted (courtesy mgedmin) chanlogs of om-cdevel once	14:24
DocScrutinizer	of course povbot won't simply join	14:24
DocScrutinizer	on invite	14:24
mgedmin	no, you have to talk to it, give it an admin password, etc.	14:24
DocScrutinizer	sure	14:24
alterego	We should get "I have an N950" tshirt, with the troll face on it.	14:26
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jaska	good, so people know who to rob :)	14:27
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MohammadAG	FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- :P	14:27
alterego	jaska: sure, but I wont be taking the N950 out of the house, I'll be carrying around an N8 :P	14:28
* MohammadAG starts printing I have no N950 shirts http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/12/120905/1818742-fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu_super.gif		14:28
alterego	:)	14:29
jaska	alterego: well, then we can take hostages and demand n950s :)	14:29
FredrIQ\|n900	too bad touch-hold isn't emulating right click, it just.. well, does function that way	14:29
MohammadAG	jaska, cambridge UK, know anyone who lives there? :P	14:29
jaska	not offhand	14:29
FredrIQ\|n900	as context menus @computer doesn't open w/X forwarding and applications	14:29
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FredrIQ\|n900	i would prefer it emulating right click completly	14:30
alterego	o/	14:30
alterego	\o/	14:30
alterego	I live there!	14:30
alterego	\o/	14:30
MohammadAG	alterego, you're the target	14:32
Venemo	so, has anyone received their N950 e-mails yet?	14:32
MohammadAG	Jaffa	14:33
alterego	No one has	14:33
crashanddie	I thought a few people had?	14:33
alterego	Jaffa's submission is a special case	14:33
crashanddie	Khertan, Anidel, etc.	14:33
trx	why is it taking so long :/	14:33
alterego	He had his developer nokia account setup right, obviously ..	14:33
MohammadAG	crashanddie, helsinki meet up, all attendees got one	14:33
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crashanddie	Oh, ok.	14:33
MohammadAG	As well as Nokia Employees	14:34
crashanddie	Wow, didn't even know there was a Helsinki meetup	14:34
crashanddie	When?	14:34
MohammadAG	they had one for some time, probably since November	14:34
alterego	Yesterday	14:34
crashanddie	Fairy nuff.	14:34
crashanddie	Well, good for them, I guess	14:34
crashanddie	I'm just not impressed anymore.	14:35
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trx	there is like 1% chance that i will get n950 and i keep checking my mail	14:36
Venemo	I also have a developer.nokia.com accound. it turns out that I've had it since 2007 (same as forum nokia and ovi account)	14:36
trx	that sucks :)	14:36
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: november sounds correct, given date of http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333	14:36
lardman	so that's not going to happen again I guess	14:37
khertan	crashanddie: ?	14:39
khertan	crashanddie: 'lu	14:39
crashanddie	yo	14:39
MohammadAG	khertan, did you think of a solution for a proper on screen keyboard for KhtEditor?	14:39
khertan	crashanddie: nope still waiting email.	14:40
khertan	MohammadAG: a proper ? the native one is so bad ?	14:40
khertan	MohammadAG: didn't look too bad in harmattan sdk	14:40
MohammadAG	I killed MInputMethod, so no idea :P	14:41
khertan	MohammadAG: but yes i ll need to found a way to close it	14:41
khertan	as when it s open you can t close it	14:41
MohammadAG	khertan, just make the QTextEdit lose focus	14:42
khertan	same for windows i ven't found how to close it on sb	14:42
khertan	MohammadAG: yep but button take place	14:42
lardman	now are Nokia email addresses formatted? first.last@nokia.com?	14:42
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khertan	so i ll probably need to do a gesture	14:42
X-Fade	khertan: You don't close windows.	14:43
X-Fade	khertan: You just swipe away.	14:44
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khertan	X-Fade: yep or swipe away them	14:44
khertan	:)	14:44
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MohammadAG	lardman, yes	14:45
lardman	thanks MohammadAG	14:45
khertan	X-Fade: but i ven't never been able to swipe them away. It s working on other app but not KhtEditor ... so maybe it s due to plain qt	14:46
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X-Fade	khertan: That should not matter. I can swipe away a plain qt app.	14:47
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MohammadAG	swiping is done on the window manager/compositor level, you can swipe away any app	14:50
khertan	X-Fade: i should probably do some more quake live game to improve mouse dexterity for swiping windows in xephyr ... i used too much my n900 ... :)	14:50
alterego	I hope this works with the N9/50 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/nokia-steps-it-up-a-gear-with-new-accessories/nokia-bluetooth-stereo-headset-bh-111_black_3/	14:50
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* DocScrutinizer mumbles about "close xchat via menu... pfff"		14:50
thresh	hi. does anyone know of google+ app for maemo5?	14:50
alterego	It's a bluetooth headset unit, where you can plug in your own headphones.	14:51
X-Fade	alterego: my bh-214 works at least.	14:51
alterego	Wonder how it charges.	14:51
khertan	thresh: dev need an invite before :)	14:51
alterego	X-Fade: does it have media keys? That's more important to me :D	14:51
Venemo	Jaffa, ping	14:51
thresh	khertan: hehe I don't have invites yet sorry :(	14:51
khertan	thresh: :)	14:51
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: does that imply you can not close apps, just like idiotic windows phones?	14:51
X-Fade	alterego: Start stop, volume?	14:52
MohammadAG	I have an invite, it says I have to be 18+ to use it	14:52
alterego	X-Fade: yeah, fwd/prev too?	14:52
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: No, you can close them if you really want too.	14:52
khertan	DocScrutinizer: i remember someone saying there will be a gesture for closing	14:52
alterego	Track skipping and pause/play are my main functions	14:52
alterego	I was pissed with the N900 didn't work with Nokia headset remotes :/	14:52
Termana	DocScrutinizer: on the N9/N950? You can close apps on the grid	14:52
DocScrutinizer	whatever that means	14:53
Termana	The open applications view	14:53
alterego	DocScrutinizer: tap & hold	14:53
alterego	Then press the x	14:53
alterego	It's kinda similar to removing widgets on Fremantle desktop.	14:53
DocScrutinizer	aah k	14:53
alterego	Except tap and hold, rather than press and then press the gear icon	14:53
alterego	I've just thought what I'd really like out of the application switcher/view	14:54
X-Fade	alterego: Yeah, skipping works fine.	14:54
alterego	X-Fade: awesome :)	14:54
alterego	I'll be ordering something like that then	14:54
X-Fade	alterego: And play/pause too of course.	14:54
frals	swipe down to close	14:54
alterego	I'd like to scrap the "most recent app is first" in the app lister.	14:54
alterego	And I'd like to make them movable	14:55
alterego	So I can drag them around in the grid	14:55
X-Fade	frals: Ssssh :)	14:55
alterego	So, I'd like to be able to organise the "windows" how I want them to be organised and not have the automatic most recent stack like behaviour	14:55
Venemo	alterego ++	14:56
frals	i thought it would bother me, but it doesnt so far really	14:56
* alterego adds idea to his wiki		14:56
alterego	frals: what would bother you? The slightly more fiddly app closing?	14:56
alterego	Or the organisation?	14:57
frals	the recent goes first	14:57
X-Fade	To be honest, I have 20 apps open and I don't notice a thing.	14:57
frals	app closing is not fiddly with swipe down ;)	14:57
alterego	frals: I'm not saying it'd annoy me, I think I'd just like to be able to organise them myself.	14:57
frals	alterego: at least you can organise the launcher ;D	14:58
alterego	If we really can have all these live apps open, then sure, I'd like it to be like a dashboard ;)	14:58
alterego	Heh	14:58
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X-Fade	alterego: You can pinch.	14:59
alterego	X-Fade: not the same :P	14:59
X-Fade	alterego: So more fit on your screen :)	14:59
alterego	I mean properly organising	14:59
alterego	Like the app launcher grid	14:59
X-Fade	alterego: Ah, like old times :)	14:59
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: hi	15:00
javispedro	hi there	15:00
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macmaN	i am also just now wondering about app closing	15:02
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macmaN	i am pretty sure i saw a setting on N9 that said either up or down swipe closes the app	15:02
macmaN	there is no such setting that i can see in n950	15:02
Venemo	Jaffa, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24198#post24198	15:02
macmaN	task switcher becomes hella cluttered quickly	15:03
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: (20 apps open, no thing) regarding resources? that's not the point. xchat will happily continue eating data traffic volume when running in background, so there is a diff between closing and swiping away	15:03
frals	macmaN: you dont have it in your build yet	15:03
javispedro	so, what's new and interesting?	15:03
javispedro	MohammadAG: DocScrutinizer: any of you on the n950 list?	15:03
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macmaN	frals: yeah thats what im thinking	15:03
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Just tap and hold and hit the X then.	15:03
DocScrutinizer	nah, list didn't change	15:03
macmaN	good to know its coming	15:03
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: yup, fair enough	15:03
MohammadAG	javispedro, wanna start us a channel?	15:04
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: hi	15:04
mece	Jaffa, ping	15:04
DocScrutinizer	/join ##weneverreallywanted950	15:04
javispedro	MohammadAG: there will be no need. I'm counting on that ;)	15:04
lardman	Just got my email	15:05
javispedro	oh.	15:05
khertan	click click click click ... refresh rate exceeded ...	15:05
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, more like ##IdonthaveanN950butactuallywantedone	15:05
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: take lessons in sarcasm :-)	15:05
* javispedro nearly hits on the "add qgil to google+ link"		15:05
khertan	:)	15:06
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, wasn't being sarcastic	15:06
MohammadAG	Google+ meh	15:07
DocScrutinizer	honestly, probably you are too young for good sarcasm ;-)	15:07
* MohammadAG opens the invite, sees This feature is not available for your account You must be over a certain age to use this feature.		15:07
alterego	Just got my wmail	15:07
alterego	~email	15:07
infobot	well, email is the lifeblood of the pornternet	15:07
khertan	.... WOUHOU ! Same here	15:07
javispedro	MohammadAG: I hate Google+, but I made a bet with someone a few months ago Facebook would end in less than three years.	15:07
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javispedro	MohammadAG: so I _really_ need Google+ to win for me to win the bet.	15:08
* lardman almost missed the fact he needs to reply to the email		15:08
robbiethe1st	I'd use Google+ if it didn't want me to give a public profile. I don't want people knowing I liked something, just that someone did	15:08
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javispedro	ok, time to fire up that password sniffer so I can get all those n950s while people log in	15:09
* MohammadAG checks his email, maybe this was just a joke		15:09
* MohammadAG realizes he's living in denial		15:09
DocScrutinizer	o.O	15:09
* DocScrutinizer is tempted to set up FF's "watch this page for chages" feature		15:10
DocScrutinizer	changes even	15:10
khertan	You have an existing contact, please disassociate from developer account page before creating a new account. < ?	15:10
javispedro	NO, NO, NO!!	15:10
javispedro	NOOOOOOOOOOOOoo	15:10
javispedro	launchpad stuff involved.	15:10
khertan	?	15:11
DocScrutinizer	WTF?	15:11
javispedro	I friggin need the launchpad account	15:11
javispedro	so it's as good as dead for me =)	15:11
DocScrutinizer	"please create a launchpad account to receive your N950" ?	15:11
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: mostly.	15:11
DocScrutinizer	FSCK!	15:11
Jaffa	mece: pong	15:11
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you have one, why you are complaining!	15:12
DocScrutinizer	for you	15:12
Jaffa	'Status: "Device sent to customer"'	15:12
alterego	I have no idea what I'm doing ..	15:12
DocScrutinizer	I won't need mine anyway	15:12
Jaffa	:-D	15:12
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: Are you 18 yet? Actually, I think you are ;-)	15:12
* javispedro goes for lunch. Then, I will _MASH THE SEND WEBSITE FEEDBACK BUTTON_		15:13
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: N950 comes with p0rn preloaded?	15:13
MohammadAG	javispedro, what's launchpad?	15:13
khertan	Nokia Developer Id is the login ?	15:13
mece	Jaffa, I was wondering where you got that info about the dev device, but I saw the email now. Only problem is I'm already in some stuff here.	15:13
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, 17	15:14
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: devel.nokia.com special class of users	15:14
* lardman waits for the launchpad accepted email		15:14
Jaffa	MohammadAG: I think you're wrong.	15:14
MohammadAG	About?	15:14
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Your age. I'm pretty sure you're 18.	15:14
mece	Jaffa, conveniently none of the three steps described in the mail work.	15:14
Jaffa	MohammadAG: I'm also pretty certain they don't check ID	15:14
lardman	MohammadAG: definitely, don;t you remember the party earlier in the year?	15:14
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: he's definitely 18, he just entered a hoax birthdate	15:15
lardman	typo, easy to do	15:15
mece	ah wait. I need to send that Account ID?	15:15
Jaffa	MohammadAG: We know how vain you are, but really - you're not fooling anyone	15:15
MohammadAG	hehe	15:15
lardman	just saying you're under 18 doesn't stop the gray hairs you know ;)	15:15
Jaffa	Most of us wait until we've hit 30 before saying we're younger than we actually are.	15:15
MohammadAG	I'm actually 28	15:15
jonwil	Who was it that suggested that we should make the date-time picker for the date time control panel better?	15:16
MohammadAG	nah, google+ still not working :p	15:16
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: that happened to be me	15:16
Jaffa	jonwil: DocScrutinizer suggested it was shit. I suggested the Harmattan one is shiny	15:16
DocScrutinizer	time for 12648430 ☕	15:17
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khertan	pfffff i understand nothing on nokia developper website	15:19
khertan	there is account par page ?	15:19
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mece	khertan, I agree it's super confusing.	15:20
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SpeedEvil	lardman: Congrats!	15:20
lardman	SpeedEvil: thanks	15:20
mece	I sent qgil the stuff I found under https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml	15:20
mece	there's Account ID and Account name.	15:20
jonwil	well the way to make those widgets better is to bring Libhildon1 into the CSSU and improve that	15:21
lardman	SpeedEvil: did you see my question up above about the magnetic field lines and whether the model gives you any chance of a longitude fix too?	15:21
khertan	mece: !!! Thx ... i wasn't able to found it :)	15:21
SpeedEvil	lardman: I diddn't. However.	15:21
lardman	well that's the question basically :)	15:21
mece	khertan, I'm not sure that's the thing he wants tho, mind you. But I think so.	15:21
Jaffa	One thing I noticed on the order page. The "quantity" defaults to one, but is a drop-down... didn't bother checking what the other options were	15:21
khertan	mece: it s look like	15:22
DocScrutinizer	lardman: longitude only via astrological means	15:22
SpeedEvil	lardman: The phone gives you a direction of the magnetic field vector. If you're in the UK - for example - this will be an arrow pointing up and north.	15:22
mece	Gaddamn, I'm all giddy. How the hell did you get a reply so fast Jaffa?	15:22
* mece does the harmattan dance		15:22
SpeedEvil	lardman: You with the accellerometer can work out the angle between these and 'down' apply some maths ang get latitude.	15:22
lardman	yeah don;t worry I get that, but yesterday someone was talking about a model for the field line directions and it taking up some non-trivial amount of space	15:22
DocScrutinizer	lardman: magnetic sensor can only give you clue about latitude	15:22
SpeedEvil	lardman: They were wrong.	15:23
Jaffa	mece: They already had my Nokia Developer Professional/Launchpad/whatever account, and knew the details	15:23
SpeedEvil	lardman: It's a few hundred bytes of spherical harmonics	15:23
lardman	ok fine, that's what I thought	15:23
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mece	Jaffa, ah. I see.	15:23
SpeedEvil	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Magnetic_Model	15:23
lardman	so add in a MCC country code and it will give you a rough fix too, all good	15:23
SpeedEvil	a fix on latitude only.	15:24
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: And within the borders of the country a range of longtitudes ;-)	15:24
lardman	yes, but MCC will give you a rough fix on longitude as on its own the latitude isn't much use	15:24
Jaffa	The contours of every country might be a bit large ;-)	15:24
SpeedEvil	You could add any observable extraatmospheric object and get a fix on position.	15:24
DocScrutinizer	like sun	15:25
SpeedEvil	Yes.	15:25
MohammadAG	grr	15:25
Jaffa	That'd be very cool.	15:25
DocScrutinizer	need proper time	15:25
MohammadAG	why is it when I maximize Konsole my whole laptop goes down	15:25
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Get it from GPS ;-)	15:25
DocScrutinizer	lol	15:25
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: nope - just date	15:25
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SpeedEvil	err	15:25
macmaN	is it me or does n950 browser have trouble with self signed certificates	15:25
* SpeedEvil ponders.		15:25
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DocScrutinizer	o.O	15:25
SpeedEvil	It's an ambiguous position without time I think, yeah.	15:26
thresh	so I guess I found out how to send invites out in G+, so developers are welcome :D	15:26
DocScrutinizer	thresh: no thanks	15:26
lardman	they question is where to implement extra location methods? I guess QtM would be the place if they are willing to take patches	15:26
* mece wishes G+ will fail as miserably as buzz and wave		15:26
alterego	What the f is google+ ?	15:27
mece	alterego, the next step in control and world domination	15:27
lardman	alterego: I was about to ask the same question :)	15:27
SpeedEvil	lardman: The fun issue is can we add this data usefully to a fix.	15:27
DocScrutinizer	mece: facebook++ I heard	15:27
mece	yep.	15:27
* Jaffa doesn't want everything he does through Google to be part of his social network.		15:27
mece	exactly Jaffa	15:28
lardman	SpeedEvil: yep, but how to present the ability to a dev who doesn't care about the method, just the fact it can be done without a connection, etc	15:28
X-Fade	"Jaffa now watches pr0n" :)	15:28
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Jaffa	X-Fade: ;-)	15:28
mece	I HATE google for integrating everything. I do not want them reading my emails and adjusting my search results. I like google services, but I want them absolutely separate.	15:28
X-Fade	Or searches for. Even worse :)	15:28
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: so you not yet replaced your DHCP provided DNS servers by 8.8.8.8 ?	15:28
mece	X-Fade, exactly	15:28
lardman	X-Fade: he uses your google login for that	15:29
mece	DocScrutinizer, I use that sometimes. My isp's dns is broken :/	15:29
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Not everywhere, no - but I accept Google know it. I just don't want them exposing it to someone who I once emailed as part of a reply-all on maemo-users	15:29
MohammadAG	are meego touch libs in the harmattan SDK?	15:29
X-Fade	Oh, well that is all ok. I'll use yours to search for all kinds of weird std pictures. I guess you will see some adds for meds soon :)	15:30
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Should be, yes.	15:30
lardman	:)	15:30
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: :-P	15:30
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Jaffa	That's my problem with Google Contacts as well. I like the autocompletion when composing an email, but I don't consider them a "contact"	15:30
MohammadAG	Jaffa, how do I make a new project with MTF then?	15:30
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Err, no idea.	15:30
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: SpeedEvil: what is the harmattan analogon to liblocation?	15:31
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lardman	liblocationextras is part of it	15:32
Termana	mece, ping	15:32
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mece	Termana, o/	15:32
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: no idea	15:32
lardman	cellular-qt does cellids	15:32
Termana	mece, is "Account name" suppose to be our real full name or just a username?	15:32
lardman	qtm-location does the gps stuff	15:33
mece	Account name is username	15:33
DocScrutinizer	lardman: :nod:	15:33
lardman	so basically it's all spread out around the place, which is a bit crap	15:33
mece	click your username in top left, and you should see full name	15:33
DocScrutinizer	lardman: :nod:	15:33
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mece	s/click/Termana, click/	15:33
infobot	mece meant: Termana, click your username in top left, and you should see full name	15:33
mece	dammit, Termana, top right I mean	15:33
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lardman	but it should all be wrapped as alternative methods in the qtm-location stuff, as currently it only supports gps	15:33
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: QtM is a flawed concept anyway	15:34
lardman	but what we have to work with	15:34
mece	lardman, supports network also...	15:34
lardman	mece: QtM?	15:34
mece	lardman, at least 1.2	15:34
DocScrutinizer	lardman: you don't want to replace middleware daemon stuff by a lib linked to every app	15:34
DocScrutinizer	that's just ODD	15:34
mece	lardman, I'm using it indoors so I'm pretty sure I don't have gps signal	15:35
mece	DocScrutinizer, I don't think the location bits are broken though	15:35
lardman	mece: hmm interesting, I'll do some looking	15:35
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mece	lardman, you can force it to use gps if you want though.	15:35
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lardman	mece: I was looking through the harmattan api docs and didn't see it, just let me find the qtm 1.2 docs	15:36
DocScrutinizer	mece: if QtM is talking to whatever sensors (here GPS chip) "directly" on a per-app basis, then who's delaing with switching off the chip?	15:36
DocScrutinizer	s/dela/deal/	15:36
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: mece: if QtM is talking to whatever sensors (here GPS chip) "directly" on a per-app basis, then who's dealing with switching off the chip?	15:36
DocScrutinizer	this is a so obviously broken design	15:37
mece	lardman, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/qgeopositioninfosource.html#PositioningMethod-enum	15:37
alterego	QtM talks to liblocation or whatever management backend there is gypsy etc.	15:37
jonwil	Ok, question: Is a clone of the date-time control panel usefull or not?	15:37
DocScrutinizer	alterego: aah ok then	15:37
alterego	It's handled on a reference-by-reference basis I think.	15:37
alterego	Remember that GPS comms is proprietary and closed ;)	15:38
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lardman	mece: but there are no other methods defined, just a generic "nonsatellite"	15:38
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javispedro	MohammadAG: launchpad is their app store developer project	15:38
mece	lardman, well it depends on whatever the device supports I suppose	15:38
javispedro	MohammadAG: re meegotouch: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/showdoc.php?pkn=libmeegotouch&wb=daily-docs&url=Li94bWwvZGFpbHktZG9jcy9saWJtZWVnb3RvdWNo	15:38
mece	lardman, on N900 it uses network positioning	15:38
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: control panel as in "settings"? probably not. Replacement of the used widget systemwide? YES!!!	15:38
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lardman	what device are you using that gives you wifi ap location data?	15:38
lardman	ah ok	15:39
MohammadAG	javispedro, can't find which headers I need for status menu applets	15:39
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javispedro	oh.	15:39
mece	lardman, hmm I haven't tried that one.	15:39
javispedro	good question.	15:39
MohammadAG	#meego's dead	15:39
lardman	mece: on the N900 the other rolls up all the liblocation stuff, but on the N950 I can't see what is included in that, and how I can add methods	15:39
mece	MohammadAG, #maemo is where it's at \o/	15:39
javispedro	#meego's not harmattan (MNG)	15:39
javispedro	er..	15:39
javispedro	(MNH)	15:39
jonwil	Fixing the widget involves bringing libhildon1 into the CSSU and fixing that	15:39
javispedro	;PO	15:39
jonwil	All the code for the widget is open source	15:40
mece	lardman, but isn't it enough to put NonSatellite?	15:40
MohammadAG	javispedro, then why's the DDP being discussed on meego.com?	15:40
khertan	because it s an harmattan device ... a mix of meego / maemo	15:41
khertan	:)	15:41
lardman	mece: perhaps, but there are levels of accuracy one can obtain with differing penalties - e.g. cellid location requires a net connection (currently) to get the lat/lon	15:41
mece	lardman, yes... hmm ok at least my n900 found my position through wlan :)	15:41
lardman	MCC is free, so long as you have a cell connection; offline cell id could also be free and far more accurate; magnetic field lines could be free and not need a cell connection at all, etc	15:41
MohammadAG	javispedro,	15:42
MohammadAG	libmeegotouchsettings.so.0 => /usr/lib/libmeegotouchsettings.so.0 (0xf70a2000)	15:42
MohammadAG	libmeegotouchextensions.so.0 => /usr/lib/libmeegotouchextensions.so.0 (0xf7019000)	15:42
MohammadAG	libmeegotouchviews.so.0 => /usr/lib/libmeegotouchviews.so.0 (0xf551b000)	15:42
khertan	mece: you are lucky ... precision for me is center of France over Wlan :)	15:42
lardman	Yeah I end up in Birmingham, so a hundred miles out or so	15:42
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mece	khertan, LOL well I'm in university's IT department, and they do some stuff with location so I suppose they have properly set up the position of the router.	15:42
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: appreciated addition to CSSU	15:43
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lardman	they just look at the IP address iirc	15:43
lardman	so none of the ap location stuff that one can get on e.g. the iPhone	15:43
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mece	lardman, yep, but that ip has to be connected to a location..	15:43
lardman	but it would be nice to be able to use that capability with the data from openbmal	15:43
lardman	openbmap	15:43
jonwil	I dont have the GUI programming skills to fix the date and time widgets	15:44
MohammadAG	javispedro, the status menu in Harmattan is based on MeeGo's	15:44
MohammadAG	or is actually MeeGo's	15:44
mece	jonwil, which date/time widgets?	15:44
javispedro	MohammadAG: is MeeGo's afaik.	15:44
jonwil	the HildonDateButton and HildonTimePicker	15:44
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Somehow I think it is the other way around, but yeah ;)	15:45
jonwil	that people have suggested should be made better	15:45
jonwil	HildonTimeButton	15:45
* javispedro has to understand that one bit yet		15:45
javispedro	I think the statusbar can be drawn either by mcompositor decorator _or_ the client application	15:45
DocScrutinizer	lardman: AP location on iPhone used to be SkyHook, but they switched to a genuine apple service later	15:45
MohammadAG	javispedro, I can't find ANY docs for it	15:45
jonwil	hmmm, I think I might clone the date time settings applet anyway just for fun :)	15:46
lardman	DocScrutinizer: That was the name I was trying to remember; would be nice to be able to do the same	15:46
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jonwil	Might also play with libtelcommon and libcsnet	15:47
DocScrutinizer	duh, what's that? never heard about those libs	15:48
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: building a database for AP locations is not going to fly until you got a critical mass of users	15:49
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DocScrutinizer	or sth like google streeview cars gathering the info en passant	15:49
mece	was it engadget that had pictures of the DevKit?	15:49
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jonwil	libcsnet is where network related signals come from	15:50
jonwil	like operator change	15:50
jonwil	or cell tower change	15:50
DocScrutinizer	lardman: of course you can keep you local list of known AP and related GPS coords on device	15:50
javispedro	MohammadAG: "system-ui" package	15:50
DocScrutinizer	mece: pictures of devkit? mompls	15:51
MohammadAG	javispedro, no docs there	15:51
lardman	Docscrutinizer: that would be an alternative is openbmap doesn't have the data in question	15:51
DocScrutinizer	mece: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/#4243193	15:51
MohammadAG	javispedro, system-ui-status-indicator-menu-volume-nokia	15:51
javispedro	no, that's just the volume menu	15:52
javispedro	the battery one seems to be in system-ui itself	15:52
lardman	DocScrutinizer: and to also upload the missing data of course	15:52
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: yeah, openbmap is retarded as they don't collect all the available data for accquisition points	15:53
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jonwil	Why is there so much interest in a non-GPS way of doing location tracking?	15:53
lardman	I didn't realise, but if they are the best going then c'est la vie	15:53
MohammadAG	YES I didn't get an email from qgil :D	15:53
mece	DocScrutinizer, yeah, found it. SEXYYYY	15:53
javispedro	MohammadAG: oh, you are interested in the menu itself	15:53
mece	MohammadAG \o/	15:53
MohammadAG	"Email sent to 210 participants not accepted in the N950 program."	15:53
lardman	jonwil: just covering all the bases, plus the N900 gps is rubbish without assistance data	15:53
DocScrutinizer	lardman: openbmap is based on the circle model which is flawed for real life	15:53
mece	MohammadAG, wot?	15:54
MohammadAG	http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184	15:54
jonwil	so its more looking for a way to do better location in the situation where a data connection is unavailable or expensive?	15:54
flux	woohoo, I didn't receive an email, that must mean that I'm gonna get one!	15:54
lardman	jonwil: exactly	15:54
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: interest in non GPS location is due to a)TTFF b)power consumption of GPS c)indoors etc	15:54
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lardman	not a replacement but a fallback	15:54
MohammadAG	no, it doesn't, it just means you weren't rejected/accepted yet :D	15:54
javispedro	MohammadAG: did you get one such email? O.o	15:55
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javispedro	ah	15:55
javispedro	you didn't =)	15:55
MohammadAG	I wonder if he's going from newest to oldest applications	15:56
MohammadAG	cause I'm pretty sure I'm one of the first 100 or 200	15:56
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alterego	MohammadAG: I thought you got accepted?	15:56
MohammadAG	alterego, nope	15:57
javispedro	MohammadAG:there seems to be a "indicator menu extension" sample in system-ui/demos/plugins/call	15:57
javispedro	as well as demos/lugins/profile	15:57
MohammadAG	where are those?	15:57
MohammadAG	oh, source	15:57
javispedro	source package 'system-ui'	15:57
MohammadAG	yeah, realized that :p	15:57
MohammadAG	didn't know system-ui was open	15:58
javispedro	me neither, but this is one step forward.	15:58
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Didn't you say you got an invite for a device?	15:58
javispedro	it has all of the usb dialogs	15:58
javispedro	so extending the "usb cable connected" dialog	15:58
MohammadAG	Jaffa, when did I say that?	15:58
javispedro	shall now be possible.	15:58
MohammadAG	javispedro, extending it on fremantle is possible	15:59
MohammadAG	just rewrite it, it's simple	15:59
javispedro	=)	15:59
MohammadAG	just some DBus and system() calls	15:59
Jaffa	MohammadAG: I thought you said that earlier, and that was what the age stuff was about	15:59
MohammadAG	profile example, excellent	15:59
Jaffa	Or is that Google+ shit?	15:59
alterego	Hah	15:59
MohammadAG	Google+	15:59
alterego	Okay, that makes sense :D	16:00
javispedro	lol	16:00
* javispedro reads the age stuff in backlog		16:00
MohammadAG	I don't have to be 18+ for a DDP :P	16:00
javispedro	MohammadAG: technically you have. NDA is after all legal agreement.	16:00
MohammadAG	javispedro, this isn't under an NDA	16:00
Venemo	hmmm	16:00
alterego	There is a contract MohammadAG	16:00
alterego	it's a loan	16:00
javispedro	N900 DDP was	16:00
Venemo	how do I know what my "Nokia Developer Id" is?	16:01
javispedro	it was a jokenda, but there was one	16:01
javispedro	MohammadAG: though, I wouldn't worry. After all, you're 18.	16:01
* GAN900 sighs		16:02
MohammadAG	Yeah	16:02
DocScrutinizer	moo GAN900	16:02
MohammadAG	javispedro, anyway, under local rules I'm allowed to make legal decisions	16:02
Termana	Venemo, go here: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml	16:02
alterego	Venemo: do you have a nokia developer account?	16:02
lardman	Venemo: I wondered the same, I think it's the name up the top	16:02
GAN900	Nokia Developer application still hasn't gone through	16:02
alterego	Venemo: it's the number AID-XXXXXXX	16:02
MohammadAG	actually allowed to do anything, besides renting cars grumbles	16:02
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: 210 denials sent by quim	16:03
lardman	oh crap, I sent the wrong thing then	16:03
Termana	GAN900, ? mine went straight through. Do you mean the Launchpad one?	16:03
javispedro	GAN900: consider yourself lucky. I'm still stuck in launchpad limbo	16:03
lardman	where do you find that number then>	16:03
Venemo	umm, 3 different replies from 3 people	16:03
javispedro	and have been for the last half year..	16:03
DocScrutinizer	aah, nokia devel	16:03
lardman	alterego: where is that AID-??? thing located?	16:03
Venemo	if it means anything, I've just completed step 2 from the e-mail	16:03
Termana	lardman, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml	16:04
alterego	lardman: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml	16:04
Venemo	Termana, yeah, I've been to that page	16:04
alterego	lardman: it's the first box on the left "Account ID"	16:04
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Termana	Venemo, ^ what alterego just said. Isn't yours there?	16:05
javispedro	qgil is already karmawhoring in f.m.c, he really knows how to do it.	16:05
DocScrutinizer	haha	16:05
alterego	Hahah	16:05
MohammadAG	lmao	16:05
Jaffa	javispedro: For the day when karma's introduced? ;-)	16:05
DocScrutinizer	according to http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/#4243193 and my poor math there are ~120 devices for 240 applicants yet	16:06
Termana	Re: NDA - you accept a click through NDA when you sign up for a premium developer account. Although half of you probably didn't read that	16:06
alterego	Heh	16:06
MohammadAG	I wish I could import my tmo thanks to fmc :P	16:06
alterego	Termana: the NDA is also at the bottom of the page ;)	16:06
Venemo	ah, yeah! I got it	16:06
alterego	Termana: the premium_profile.xhtml page that is.	16:06
lardman	thanks Termana, alterego	16:06
javispedro	Jaffa: Maybe he knows a future Meego handset maker _will_ use Karma ;)	16:06
Venemo	thanks alterego & Termana	16:06
alterego	np	16:06
mece	javispedro, where is he karmawhoring?	16:06
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: according to Engadget what? O.o	16:06
DocScrutinizer	meh	16:07
javispedro	mce: f.m.c = forum.meego.com	16:07
javispedro	er..	16:07
mece	javispedro, yeah	16:07
javispedro	mece^^	16:07
mece	javispedro, I meant is it any post in particular?	16:07
DocScrutinizer	http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184	16:07
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: ah, wrong link, ok relief	16:07
javispedro	mece: the devkit thread ;)	16:07
DocScrutinizer	according to http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184 and my poor math there are ~120 devices for 240 applicants yet	16:07
Venemo	alterego, after doing step 2, do I have to wait for the answer for my mail to do step 3?	16:08
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, that is still an 1/2 chance, not bad.	16:08
mece	Venemo, I don't think you have to do step 3	16:08
Venemo	why not mece?	16:08
RST38h	Doc: not 120, 40.	16:08
alterego	Venemo: after sending your AID to quim, just wait.	16:08
DocScrutinizer	OUCH	16:08
Venemo	alterego, ok	16:08
mece	Venemo, wait.. hm	16:08
javispedro	"Wireless Keyboard For HP TouchPad. iPad sold separately."	16:09
MohammadAG	210 + 240 = 450	16:09
MohammadAG	ah nevermind, adds up	16:09
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: how 40?	16:09
RST38h	250-210=40	16:09
MohammadAG	hey, I didn't check my email's junk box	16:09
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: wut? those 210 were denials	16:09
mece	MohammadAG, mine ended up in spam	16:09
Venemo	yep, my junk filter also filtered it	16:09
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* MohammadAG gulps		16:09
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mece	MohammadAG, well?	16:10
RST38h	Doc: I think we are reading it differently	16:10
Termana	alterego, whoops. I already applied for the Launchpad account and it seems others have as well	16:10
MohammadAG	mece, I'm sure I wasn't accepted yet, but I'm not sure if I got a rejection email	16:10
trx	i got no mail so far	16:10
mece	MohammadAG, gulp indeed	16:10
alterego	Termana: I have, in march	16:10
MohammadAG	my gmail's clean, /me checks his hotmail	16:10
Venemo	alterego, so, should I apply to this launchpad thing or not?	16:10
javispedro	alterego: and yours was approved?	16:11
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: >>Email sent to 210 participants not accepted in the N950 program.<< how can we read that differently?	16:11
alterego	Termana: way before this, I don't think that will matter, I think we should just wait a few hours for some news.	16:11
trx	i would like to recieve any kind of mail	16:11
alterego	javispedro: nope.	16:11
trx	just to be over with it :/	16:11
javispedro	alterego: nice to have someone in the club!	16:11
alterego	Venemo: no, just wait.	16:11
mece	Venemo, I already applied there actually, come to think about it, so I guess qgil will just tell them to accept my application.	16:11
Venemo	ok alterego	16:11
alterego	javispedro: w00t__ is in the same situation ;)	16:11
MohammadAG	good, no rejections	16:11
javispedro	alterego: I applied in january to launchpad	16:11
alterego	javispedro: Hah :)	16:11
mece	javispedro, :D	16:11
alterego	Yeah, I applied earlier this year, march or before.	16:11
javispedro	no answer from them, no answer from support, no answer from noone	16:12
alterego	w00t__: apparently applied too, I guess none of us have had any acceptance emails. I've still got the one saying "please be patient" :D	16:12
mece	I applied the same day I applied to meego.com	16:12
javispedro	maybe I should start testing my tcp face-punching application.	16:12
alterego	Heh	16:12
alterego	Ah, maybe we could share some code, I was working on a UDP honey badger application	16:12
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: my math is like: 250devices -~130names_on_accepted_list = 120devices_left	16:12
javispedro	mece: so you hold the longest launchpad waiting time world record? when did you sign up?	16:13
lardman	hmm, I read it that we do have to do step 3 after responding with out AID thing	16:13
lardman	s/out/our	16:13
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GAN900	I'm confused.	16:13
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: >>240 proposals are still in the game.<< means 120 devices for 240 proposals	16:13
RST38h	Ah ok	16:14
mece	javispedro, no no I meant the same day I signed up for community device	16:14
* RST38h misunderstood		16:14
javispedro	mece: bah, you newbie ;D	16:14
alterego	Heh	16:14
alterego	So, who wants to share their AIDs?	16:14
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, 210 rejections sent, 130 names in the accepted list, and 530 total applications. meaning: 190 applications for 110 devices remain	16:14
* alterego chuckles		16:14
w00t__	yup, I got that mail, alterego	16:14
Termana	alterego, lol	16:14
RST38h	lardman: "You are already a member of this program, there is no need to re-apply. "	16:14
mece	javispedro, yep. Although I think I might have applied for other devices, because I already had an account there. I don't remember which though. Possibly N900	16:14
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alterego	w00t__: I hope their systems can cope with it ;	16:15
javispedro	oooooooooh.	16:15
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: >>240 proposals are still in the game.<<	16:15
javispedro	my premium_registration form is prefilled with what I think was the stuff I put on my launchpad application	16:15
alterego	Come one guys, I want your AIDs!	16:15
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, aah. that is a contradiction	16:15
javispedro	so it was not sent to the trash!	16:15
lardman	yeah that sounds right javispedro	16:15
mece	javispedro, that's the one.	16:15
w00t__	alterego: they probably dealt with it by redirecting all mail to /dev/null :)	16:15
* Termana gives alterego lots and lots of AIDs		16:15
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alterego	w00t__: I don't think they have /dev/null on MSDN	16:15
alterego	s/MSDN/Nokia Developer/	16:15
infobot	alterego meant: w00t__: I don't think they have /dev/null on Nokia Developer	16:15
javispedro	alterego: they have $NUL	16:16
javispedro	er... NUL:	16:16
lardman	alterego: interesting slip of the finger/tongue	16:16
Termana	:p	16:16
alterego	lardman: I'm just saying it how I see it.	16:16
DocScrutinizer	MSDN is NULL:	16:16
lardman	;)	16:16
mece	alterego, "In this restaurant, the hamburger deluxe comes with french fries, lettuce, tomato, mayo, and AIDS."	16:16
alterego	lardman: Makes the transition from Nokia Developer to Microsoft Developer Network easier ..	16:16
lardman	well the look is already there	16:17
alterego	Even the API docs are MSDN-esque :/	16:17
javispedro	and the forum icons are wp7's	16:18
javispedro	this is not a hidden conspiracy, it's all on the light.	16:18
alterego	Heh	16:18
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alterego	Indeed.	16:18
alterego	I actually wouldn't be suprised if an MS aquisition goes through	16:19
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, actually, MSDN has very good documentation on their stuff	16:19
alterego	But it could only pass through the EUC if their stock is worthless.	16:19
alterego	Oh wait ...	16:19
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divan	What does Quim Gil mean when finish the letter with the sentense "We hope you enjoy your flight! :)"? Should we flight to Finland in order to get N950? :)	16:20
javispedro	alterego: though if you are to follow the count of posts, virtually more people are interested in webtv than wp7 =)	16:20
lardman	divan: it's tongue-in-cheek	16:21
alterego	Heh	16:21
Termana	divan, yes, didn't you know that what apart of the deal? You can only use it in Finland	16:21
Venemo	divan, it's a proverb	16:21
Termana	s/what/was	16:21
lardman	or perhaps an expression of how fantastic using the device will be	16:21
divan	ah, I was unsure, thanks )	16:21
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javispedro	what's outside temperatue in finland?	16:21
javispedro	today?	16:21
alterego	It's going to be so fun demoing the phone with "Developer Edition" plastered all over the UX	16:21
MohammadAG	yeah, makes you look like a badass	16:22
Termana	alterego, and PROPERTY OF NOKIA on the back. You'll be locked up	16:22
Venemo	alterego, is it plastered all over the UX?	16:22
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lardman	hmm, so after sending the wrong info in reply to the email, then sending the right info, and applyiing for launchpad, what happens next?	16:22
mece	alterego, does it have developer edition plastered all across the UI?	16:22
Termana	lardman, you play a nice game of wait	16:22
javispedro	you evolve into the next plane of existence	16:23
sandst1	alterego: it's going to be so fun reflashing the phone to meego ce :)	16:23
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alterego	lardman: I don't know I did the same :D	16:23
alterego	sandst1: yup :)	16:23
lardman	Have you had a reply from Launchpad yet?	16:23
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alterego	sandst1: I've heard it works really well.	16:23
mece	lardman, reply to what?	16:23
lardman	launchpad application	16:23
sandst1	alterego: tried it last week, quite smooooth	16:23
sandst1	lardman: no reply yet, apparently it normally takes 1-2 days	16:24
Jaffa	sandst1: Of course, the covenant is that you're getting this device to put at least one app in apps.meego.com :-p	16:24
lardman	sandst1: ah ok, thanks	16:24
mece	lardman, no reply for me	16:24
MohammadAG	Venemo, settings app, top status menu, back of the device says not for sale	16:24
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mece	can one flash the non developer edition software to that thing?	16:25
Venemo	MohammadAG, "not for sale" on the back is actually fun	16:25
trx	hahah indeed	16:26
MohammadAG	possibly	16:26
MohammadAG	bad thing is, you can't downgrade	16:26
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trx	you can make fun of those who cant get one with that sticker, thats for sure :)	16:26
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Termana	trx, no one can get one without the sticker	16:26
MohammadAG	Venemo, see the top here http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_developer_edition-580x435.jpg ?	16:27
sandst1	Jaffa: yup :)	16:27
trx	Termana i meant other people that would like to buy/get one but cant	16:27
Venemo	MohammadAG, I see... but, is that final? and is it non-removable?	16:27
MohammadAG	why? it makes you feel special :p	16:28
Termana	I think Venemo is worried he will be arrested... :p	16:28
Venemo	hehehe	16:28
Venemo	hm, one question though	16:28
divan	my favourite photo of n950: http://habrastorage.org/storage1/129a08e4/ac6bea14/647598e2/6f9459fd.jpg	16:28
Venemo	can I actually use the device for personal use until it's with me? (provided that I take good care of it)	16:29
Jaffa	Venemo: No, you can't use it until you have it(?!)	16:29
khertan	You do not have the required access rights to the page you were trying to access. <<< w8 and see	16:29
sandst1	my favourite photo of the n950 would be one taken where the n950 is on my desk :P	16:29
Venemo	Jaffa, I was asking, "until it's with me"	16:29
Venemo	divan, nice indeed	16:29
Jaffa	Venemo: You mean "whilst it's with me"?	16:29
Venemo	sandst1 ++	16:29
Venemo	Jaffa, hmmm... yeah, I think that's what I meant	16:29
lardman	lol	16:29
Venemo	Jaffa, "while" it is with me?	16:30
lardman	I was getting confused too	16:30
* Venemo is not a native English speaker		16:30
MohammadAG	no, it'll take out a laser and kill you	16:30
lardman	while and whilst are pretty interchangable	16:30
Jaffa	Venemo: OK, yes. You can use it for personal purposes. Otherwise how will you know what apps scratch your itches?	16:30
Jaffa	Venemo: What lardman said about "whilst" and "while"	16:30
javispedro	nokia profiles are still outdated, eh.	16:30
javispedro	I kinda like that they allow me to say I stil develop for the PalmOS.	16:30
Jaffa	Venemo: "until it's with me" would mean the period of time before you got it.	16:30
Venemo	Jaffa, so I can slap in my SIM card and take it with me like I would a normal personal device?	16:30
Venemo	Jaffa, okay, thanks for the correction.	16:31
Jaffa	Venemo: Yes. That's the intention, use it as much as possible!	16:31
Venemo	Jaffa, I think I meant "while" it is me, meaning during the period it is with me	16:31
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Jaffa	The loan agreement does say you won't publicise deficiencies. So that'd impact anyone planning a negative review ;-)	16:31
Venemo	heheh	16:31
Venemo	I only wish I could somehow keep it, or maybe buy it for a discount after the loan.	16:32
mece	Jaffa, what does it say about how long the loan is?	16:32
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Venemo	mece, nothing exact	16:32
Jaffa	mece: It doesn't specify a timescale, AFAICS	16:32
Choom	what if one loses their phone?	16:32
mece	Jaffa, so it defaults to" infinity"	16:32
Venemo	mece, Quim only posted in the thread that basically while they know that the device is in good hands with you, you can have it	16:33
Choom	will nokia just ensure that it's banned from all carriers?	16:33
mece	Choom, I doubt anything will happen, other than the fact that you won't have the phone anymore	16:33
Venemo	Choom, if you lose it? they will shoot you, then slice you into 4 pieces and put them on display with a caption "this is what happens if you lose an N950"	16:33
mece	Venemo, that's sweet	16:33
divan	lol	16:34
mece	fuu. I've got to go.	16:34
mece	tata	16:34
Choom	mece: so what if you claim to have lost / destroyed it unintentionally? does that mean you get to keep it?	16:34
Termana	cya mece	16:34
Jaffa	mece: The exact terms are: "14. Returns. Nokia may request return of the Product at any time. Upon such request, You will promptly and in a secure manner return the Product to Nokia or its designee. [...]"	16:34
Choom	what if you don't?	16:35
mece	Choom, well if it's broken it's broken. Lost at sea might be a good idea..	16:35
* divan is buying second N900 today btw :)		16:35
javispedro	Choom: they send in the black helicopters	16:35
Termana	Choom, they could sue you for it I suppose	16:35
DocScrutinizer	divan: MINE!!	16:35
mece	Choom, you might be lawyered, who knows. I doubt anything will happen tho.	16:35
Jaffa	Choom: It goes on to say it is designated "lost"	16:35
divan	DocScrutinizer, you late )	16:35
DocScrutinizer	ALL MINE!!	16:35
DocScrutinizer	;-)	16:35
mece	LOL	16:35
Choom	Jaffa: so does that mean it gets banned from all carriers?	16:35
mece	ok rlly gonna go now. tata	16:36
javispedro	though I believe Elop is reserving the black helicopters to ensure extermination of all Meego developers and users when the first Nokia Wp7 is announced.	16:36
Jaffa	Choom: I can't see if they define what happens in that situation; but you'll be in Breach of Contract. Lawyering is possible, but - as mece says - seems unlikely	16:36
Jaffa	Choom: It's a legal clause; it means anything & nothing.	16:36
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lardman	I don;t know why people start asking this sort of question	16:36
Termana	Choom, just do what your meant to do with it and you'll be fine	16:36
Termana	Otherwise	16:36
lardman	+!	16:36
Termana	I kill you	16:36
lardman	+1	16:36
Termana	:P	16:36
Venemo	heh	16:37
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Venemo	I surely hope that at the end we can have either the N950, or can buy it, or something, or maybe a discounted N9? whatever.	16:37
Choom	lardman: I'm just wondering how they protect themselves in these situations, nothing else	16:37
Venemo	Choom, they sue your pants off	16:37
divan	how do the 'know that the device is in a good hands'? Is there good hands sensor on N950?	16:38
divan	^)	16:38
MohammadAG	Venemo, you can keep the N950 or trade it for an N9 afaik	16:38
Jaffa	Venemo: alterego says qgil said that on the launch of the N9, recipients of the N950 would be able to swap	16:38
MohammadAG	which is a touch decision	16:38
MohammadAG	tough*	16:38
Jaffa	Aye	16:38
* javispedro will probably swap		16:39
DocScrutinizer	alterego: sed -i "s/DEVELOPER EDITION/ALTEREGO SPECIAL/g" *	16:39
MohammadAG	I like the screen of the N9, the extra storage, and want NFC	16:39
alterego	DocScrutinizer: :)	16:39
Jaffa	javispedro: I'll try using VKB in terminal etc.	16:39
MohammadAG	I like the keyboard of the N950	16:39
alterego	MohammadAG: I don't think it's tough, I'd prefer the N9, better support.	16:39
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Of course, there's no guarantee the swap won't be for a 16GB N9 :-(	16:39
lardman	Choom: I'd guess that they would sue to give you a scare, but equally and more importantly if you piss about then you will get a bad name and that's it for you w/ Nokia	16:39
alterego	I'll keep the N900 for typing ..	16:39
sandst1	divan: that's what they've got the Swipe UI for. It asserts that the devices can only be used with good hands	16:39
Venemo	MohammadAG, Jaffa: yeah, alterego said that. but we don't know if at that time it would still be a loan or you could just own the device.	16:39
Jaffa	alterego: Bluemaemo as the keyboard for an N9? ;-)	16:39
Jaffa	Venemo: I think you're overworrying.	16:40
alterego	Jaffa: sure, and I've got my bluetooth keyboard.	16:40
Jaffa	Venemo: Just look at what happened with the Amsterdam N900s.	16:40
MohammadAG	they lost their USBs	16:40
Venemo	what happened to them?	16:40
MohammadAG	:P	16:40
Jaffa	MohammadAG: :-)	16:40
Termana	MohammadAG, :P	16:40
lardman	I had a strange phonecall from Nokia warranty wondering if I'd stolen one	16:40
DocScrutinizer	alterego: on a somewhat related topic: what's the state of things about the meego community device?	16:40
Termana	Venemo, everyone has kept theirs	16:40
Jaffa	Venemo: I don't know anyone who returned it, or got chased up to return it.	16:40
DocScrutinizer	alterego: cancelled?	16:40
Venemo	Termana, for free?	16:40
alterego	DocScrutinizer: no, not cancelled	16:40
DocScrutinizer	alterego: for N950/N9?	16:41
Termana	Venemo, ... yes	16:41
MohammadAG	the USB loss? yes, it was free	16:41
Termana	lol	16:41
Venemo	Termana, that is good enough for me :)	16:41
lardman	not quite free, you had to expend some energy shoving the cable in and out a few times	16:41
alterego	DocScrutinizer: still WIP, apparently a lot has been going on about, still need to touch base with the project leader.	16:41
MohammadAG	so basically, the N950 will probably do the same	16:41
Venemo	MohammadAG, xD	16:41
MohammadAG	swap it for an N9, or it'll explode	16:41
DocScrutinizer	alterego: I'd love to join the team	16:41
alterego	DocScrutinizer: when things start moving you'll be there ;)	16:42
Termana	MohammadAG, Jokes on you - new meaning to time bombed software, it interacts with hardware too now	16:42
Venemo	actually, it's a no-brainer. choosing between a limited run developer-only exclusive device (of which only a few hundred exists on the planet) versus an overhyped mass market device.	16:42
MohammadAG	Termana, I wasn't accepted, joke's on you!!!	16:42
* MohammadAG adds a yet		16:42
DocScrutinizer	alterego: My contributions fail to take effect when coming in late	16:42
Venemo	MohammadAG, maybe you haven't been accepted yet because the gold plating on your N960 hasn't been completed yet.	16:42
Termana	MohammadAG, don't jinx yourself ;)	16:42
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: like "ohwell, let's fix this hw issue for next version"	16:43
sandst1	Venemo: There's a golden N960?	16:43
MohammadAG	Termana, well, 3 days ago I was saying I think I won't get a device	16:43
alterego	DocScrutinizer: still very early stage at the moment ;)	16:43
Venemo	sandst1, yep, for MohammadAG	16:43
MohammadAG	I think I already jinx'd myself	16:43
Venemo	:P	16:43
sandst1	Venemo: ah :P	16:43
MohammadAG	lol	16:43
Termana	Venemo, I think I'd keep the developer device and BUY an N9 :p You can't BUY an N950	16:43
Venemo	surely they will need someone for the Harmattan Community SSU, so maybe they'll just send MohammadAG a device when that need arises	16:43
alterego	Termana: if that's a possibility, I'll do the same ;)	16:44
MohammadAG	Venemo, then I should've had it ten months ago, I don't know how to crack aegis	16:44
Venemo	Termana, yep. I'd keep the N950, but I wouldn't have money for an N9.	16:44
DocScrutinizer	alterego: joining in and keeping up doesn't hurt, starting to contribute as soon as project reaching a state where it makes sense to do so	16:44
Venemo	MohammadAG, what is aegis?	16:44
MohammadAG	your next nightmare	16:44
Termana	Please don't talk about aegis	16:44
Termana	The channel will implode	16:44
Venemo	MohammadAG :D	16:44
DocScrutinizer	alterego: other way round usually results in me being in late	16:44
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Venemo	srsly, what is it	16:44
alterego	DocScrutinizer: well, when I talk to him next, I'll mention it, we realy need to get a proper communications channel in operation.	16:45
alterego	So we can all work together.	16:45
Termana	Venemo, apart of the DRM scheme	16:45
DocScrutinizer	alterego: agree	16:45
Venemo	Termana, what does it actually do?	16:45
MohammadAG	Venemo, Security framework	16:45
Venemo	alterego, proper communications channel for what?	16:45
MohammadAG	drop a binary somewhere, execute it, get Operation not permitted	16:45
alterego	Venemo: your mom!Â :P	16:45
MohammadAG	Aegis has to approve your binary	16:45
alterego	I've gotta go, bbiab	16:45
Venemo	alterego, my mom, again?	16:45
Venemo	MohammadAG, chmod +x?	16:46
Termana	ttyl alterego	16:46
alterego	ciao	16:46
MohammadAG	Venemo, you thought it was that easy?	16:46
Venemo	MohammadAG, yep	16:47
javispedro	Venemo: aegis refuses to run binaries not installed there by package manager.	16:47
MohammadAG	it lives in kernel space, not user space	16:47
MohammadAG	I already said, it's your next nightmare	16:47
Venemo	oh my god	16:47
Venemo	this is a ridiculous limitation for a dev device.	16:47
Venemo	can I just uninstall it?	16:47
javispedro	It's like the second coming of abill_uk.	16:47
Termana	lol	16:47
javispedro	a horrible nightmare.	16:47
X-Fade	Currently I'm running a self compiled app without doing anything special. Don't make it too special.	16:47
MohammadAG	Venemo, hah, uninstall it, hahahahaa	16:48
MohammadAG	you can switch to open mode, and lose some apps in the process	16:48
MohammadAG	you can't run a custom kernel without open mode	16:48
X-Fade	MohammadAG: You don't have to do that.	16:48
cloudyLights	hay	16:49
cloudyLights	is today the last day to apply for the N9 dev kit?	16:49
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Termana	cloudyLights, already closed	16:49
cloudyLights	I was sure I got one more month	16:49
cloudyLights	when?	16:49
Termana	lol rolls over in grave	16:49
MohammadAG	X-Fade, hmm?	16:49
Termana	yesterday/today	16:49
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Termana	it's closed already	16:49
javispedro	cloudyLights: apply as an open source dev, or commercial?	16:50
X-Fade	MohammadAG: I just installed from an untrusted source, that works fine.	16:50
cloudyLights	javispedro: open source	16:50
DocScrutinizer	AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS WUHAHAHAHAAAAHAAA	16:50
DocScrutinizer	toldya	16:51
javispedro	cloudyLights: closed	16:51
DocScrutinizer	nobody did listen	16:51
jonwil	bah, I give up trying to figure out libisi and the rest of the telephony stack	16:51
Termana	DocScrutinizer, EVERYONE. DUN. GOOFED. Well, no one has actually confirmed it's there yet	16:51
Termana	Although there was that aegisfs thing	16:51
DocScrutinizer	some very fuzzy cloudy rumour has it they'll nuke aegis for N9	16:51
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achipa	aegis is there	16:52
Termana	Oh lord, the sky is FALLIN	16:52
achipa	it's mostly disabled so not as bad as it could have been, but still	16:52
Venemo	achipa, so, what, if MADDE copies over a binary to the N950 and tries to execute it, will Aegis let it do that?	16:52
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X-Fade	Venemo: That is no problem at all.	16:52
pabs3	DocScrutinizer: sounds kinda like selinux?	16:53
DocScrutinizer	WAAAY worse	16:53
Venemo	note that I'm not using MADDE's packaging features, just the mode where it just copies the binary	16:53
DocScrutinizer	this is trusted platform shit	16:53
Venemo	hey, SELinux CAN be tamed, and disabled	16:53
pabs3	how deep does it go? locked bootloader?	16:53
DocScrutinizer	yep	16:53
Termana	untrusted you mean	16:53
pabs3	selinux is useful	16:53
Termana	I don't trust it	16:53
Termana	:p	16:53
DocScrutinizer	completely armed implementation	16:54
cloudyLights	javispedro: are you in-charge/	16:54
cloudyLights	?	16:54
javispedro	cloudyLights: nope	16:54
pabs3	DocScrutinizer: so what about open mode, can you overwrite the bootloader then?	16:54
Venemo	I have SELinux on my F15, and it never stopped me from doing what I want.	16:54
achipa	Venemo: not by default	16:54
Venemo	achipa, ?	16:54
crashanddie	DUDE#	16:54
achipa	Venemo: scp over binary and run	16:54
crashanddie	YOU HAVE AN F15???	16:54
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: of course, but then your device is a brick	16:54
Termana	crashanddie, ba dum tsss	16:55
Venemo	achipa, yes, that's what MADDE does, isn't it?	16:55
achipa	Venemo: sorta. currently it goes through the package manager, which is aegis-enabled	16:55
javispedro	Venemo: there's some kind of "devel-su" thing, yet to test it cause it seems to be only in real device	16:55
pabs3	DocScrutinizer: eh? how so? does the ROM verify the bootloader?	16:55
MohammadAG	crashanddie, yeah, he's a lucky bastard, I only have F1-F12!!!	16:56
DocScrutinizer	yes	16:56
Venemo	achipa, well, that "feature" is the first thing I disable in Qt Creator	16:56
pabs3	ugh, I guess on the off chance I get an N950 in the dev thing I will reject it	16:56
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: toldya, complete implementation, rock solid	16:56
crashanddie	MohammadAG, I've got F-all.	16:56
* pabs3 goes looking for Android dev programs		16:57
javispedro	they don't have any!	16:57
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: that's been my reaction as well	16:57
Venemo	achipa, could you please help me a bit with the Harmattan SDK?	16:57
Termana	javispedro, unless you show up at their stupid shindig and then they give them out to all the pansies in the crowd	16:57
DocScrutinizer	probably I'll burn my fingers touching tha piece from hell	16:58
javispedro	Termana: overrated. I showed up at the Android booth in MWC and I didn't left with a device.	16:58
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: And still you piss and moan around here. Isn't it time for you to just leave?	16:58
DocScrutinizer	not really, there's hope still	16:58
* pabs3 goes to mail quim		16:58
DocScrutinizer	and I didn't notice I moaned	16:58
Termana	pabs3, you aren't SERIOUS are you?	16:59
GAN900	I guess they'll be helping push the LaunchPad applications through as part of the process?	16:59
pabs3	Termana: well, an unlocked bootloader is kinda essential to the project I proposed, so if it isn't available, then he should reject my application	16:59
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: au contraire, I'm still willing to actually burn my fingers if quim thinks I should do	16:59
achipa	guys, that's like saying if I can't have a strawberry cake WITH MINT, then I'd rather eat a 2 month old cookie	16:59
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: I'm pretty sure that if people read the backscroll, you won't get anything.	17:00
Termana	GAN900, you would assume so. Unless it's a big conspiracy and you never get one because they never approve the Launchpad account	17:00
lardman	GAN900: I guess the Launchpad guys will receive a list of numbers to enable and that's that	17:00
DocScrutinizer	:shrug:	17:00
DocScrutinizer	why?	17:00
jonwil	I doubt anyone outside of Nokia will ever be able to do anything to the telephony stack except tinker around the edges or make use of the few tidbits of information Nokia have published like libcsnet-dev :(	17:00
cloudyLights	so eerybody here got one	17:00
Venemo	so, I start Xephyr with 'Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 854x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite &', then I issue '/scratchbox/login' and 'meego-sb-session start' in another terminal	17:00
Venemo	but the Xephyr window stays empty	17:01
Venemo	I'm doing this on the HARMATTAN_X86 target	17:01
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: calling aegis a hell spawn doesn't look like a personal insult to me	17:01
pabs3	DocScrutinizer: was the N900 also bootloader locked?	17:01
Venemo	weirdly, it works from HARMATTAN_ARMEL	17:01
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: first stage yes	17:01
Termana	jonwil, what are you talking about? Harmattan's or Fremantle's telephony stack? Otherwise, ofono will work fine for either the N900 or N950/N9.	17:01
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: 2nd stage aka NOLO not	17:01
jonwil	Fremantle stack	17:01
vi__	X-Fade: are u mad because doc called aegis gay?	17:01
Termana	cloudyLights, no	17:01
jonwil	ofono works fine for small values of "	17:02
jonwil	of "fine"	17:02
jonwil	specifically it works fine if and only if you are completly replacing half the system	17:02
Termana	pabs3, what's the project you proposed. You will still be able to load another distro on there or whatever	17:03
Termana	s/proposed/proposed?/	17:03
infobot	Termana meant: pabs3, what's the project you proposed?. You will still be able to load another distro on there or whatever	17:03
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: there were users editing NOLO to get rid of NOKIA bootscreen	17:03
DocScrutinizer	worked	17:03
DocScrutinizer	won't work on N950	17:03
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MohammadAG	hmm, can't open any sites in firefox	17:03
vi__	DocScrutinizer: does that mean I can have a tux bootscreen?	17:04
MohammadAG	I'd call my ISP, but they'd probably say the internet is down	17:04
Venemo	something is really messed up in my SDK :(	17:04
DocScrutinizer	vi__: on N900 NOLO you probably could, if you figured the image format of the NOLO screen	17:04
DocScrutinizer	err NOKIA screen of NOLO	17:04
pabs3	Termana: Debian stuff	17:04
jonwil	so yeah replacing maemo stack with ofono is not going to happen hence why being able to play with the existing stack would be very useful...	17:05
Termana	pabs3, that will still work	17:05
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Termana	jonwil, well sure, if your going to stay on maemo 5 then it's not a good choice	17:06
alterego	Where's the maemo dbus docs on the wiki?	17:06
cloudyLights	lardman: what is the name of that deamon : prox...?	17:06
Termana	But, I don't see much reason to do that	17:06
lardman	proximus	17:06
jonwil	I am staying on maemo because there is no better option for the N900 yet	17:06
cloudyLights	thanks	17:06
lardman	still wip though	17:06
jonwil	and there is unlikely to be one anytime soon	17:06
jonwil	given that, messing with the maemo cell stack is the only option available unless you are willing to sacrifice functionality and/or live on the bleeding edge	17:07
jonwil	Neither of which I plan to do on my main phone	17:07
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: please tell me what I did wrong. I'm not bitching on anything except aegis intentionally, Sorry if you got that different	17:07
jonwil	Why does nokia want this security system anyway?	17:08
DocScrutinizer	THAT is a good question	17:08
* pabs3 imagines they do it for most Symbian/etc phones		17:08
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GAN900	carriers, drm	17:09
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cloudyLights	I am sorry I didnt apply before	17:09
jonwil	carriers (wireless and wired) need to realize that the world is moving towards a situation where they are just dumb pipes and stop standing in the way of that move	17:10
cloudyLights	was too occupied with my application and this new job	17:10
Jaffa	jonwil: The N9 was going to be Nokia's flagship consumer-focused phone. One of the justifications for Aegis given in Amsterdam was for protecting video content purchased online.	17:10
flux	I can easily see another justification as well: protecting the user from applications	17:11
flux	should there ever have been a big application marketplace	17:11
flux	although I wonder if aegis really would be able to do that..	17:11
Venemo	hiemanshu, ping	17:12
jonwil	anyway, the point of #meego, cssu and etc is not to replace Fremantle but to find ways to make Fremantle better. Part of that may well mean reverse engineering some of the Nokia stuff and figuring out how it works or how to talk to it :)	17:16
MohammadAG	Jaffa, speaking of which, does this aegis thing exist in the N95?	17:16
DocScrutinizer	honestly I wonder why X-Fade gone mad on me - maybe I may post a link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism	17:16
Venemo	jonwil, what's the point? just use MeeGo CE.	17:16
Jaffa	MohammadAG: N95 or M950?	17:16
Jaffa	s/M9/N9/	17:16
infobot	Jaffa meant: MohammadAG: N95 or N950?	17:16
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, N95	17:17
MohammadAG	that thing had dcf files which wouldn't play on other devices	17:17
Jaffa	MohammadAG: The 3 year old Symbian phone?	17:17
jonwil	MeeGo CE is NOT a viable replacement for Fremantle	17:17
* vi__ *coughsomeone leak the code to all fremantle componentscough*		17:17
Venemo	jonwil, why is that?	17:17
MohammadAG	thought it was 5	17:17
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Oh, no. Aegis is built on top of POSIX permissions, chroots and users	17:17
Venemo	MohammadAG, it's a 2007 device, so 4 years old	17:17
Jaffa	MohammadAG: I was going to say 5 ;-)	17:17
pabs3	hmm, quim suggested I ask about the bootloader stuff on meego-handset	17:17
frals	Jaffa: chroots?	17:18
frals	Jaffa: obscure black magic, I would say. :(	17:18
Jaffa	vi__: Why? Couldn't be used in CSSU if it was	17:18
jonwil	MeeGo CE does not have all the features of Fremantle	17:18
SpeedEvil	I suspect the point of Aegis wasn't for the N9.	17:18
Jaffa	frals: Well, true. The design of it was quite sensible, but could be used for good or ill (from our PoV) - that's the impression I got in Amsterdam anyway	17:18
* lardman heads for home to write a paper		17:18
Venemo	jonwil, which one is easier? to enhance MeeGo CE for your needs or to reverse-engineer Fremantle?	17:19
lardman	catch you tomorrow all	17:19
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Jaffa	SpeedEvil: It was; but remember the point of N9 changed after Feb 11th	17:19
SpeedEvil	It was designed at a time when _all_ future phones were going to be meego.	17:19
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vi__	jaffa appart from your own morals who will stop you? No one cares for this old device. Also it gives you a SERIOUS headstart WRT to rewriting closed parts.	17:19
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Well, true - good point.	17:19
Venemo	jonwil, also, you can use Cordia with MeeGo CE which provides Fremantle's UX	17:19
Termana	jonwil, are you kidding? The point of #meego is not to make fremantle better	17:19
Jaffa	vi__: Copyright law, for one.	17:19
SpeedEvil	So it's kinda like a nuclear bomber that's ended up being deployed to keep kids off the lawn.	17:19
jonwil	I meant #maemo not #meego	17:19
Jaffa	vi__: And given the CSSU is hosted on maemo.org, and enjoys good relations with Nokia, and Nokia pay for maemo.org - why do you think?	17:19
* javispedro presents a stupid webapp that might be useful: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24234#post24234		17:19
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Good analogy :)	17:19
Jaffa	javispedro: Genius	17:20
Venemo	javispedro, you've just saved me!	17:20
Venemo	javispedro, are you planning to do an OpenTTD port for Harmattan?	17:21
Jaffa	javispedro: Does it make the icons fit into the borders conformant with the guideliens?	17:21
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javispedro	Venemo: you bet =)	17:21
Venemo	javispedro, I think you are!	17:21
javispedro	Jaffa: if I understood the guidelines well, yes. Size of background layer is 80x80, size of icon is 56x56	17:21
javispedro	but that's why I am posting, let's see if someone criticises :)	17:22
Jaffa	javispedro: Cool	17:22
khertan	javispedro: whahou ! cool ... i m far to be an icon designer ... will try it now ... :	17:22
khertan	:)	17:22
Venemo	javispedro, the edges of the background layer seem to be poorly antialiased, but that won't be visible on the 4" screen anyway.	17:22
X-Fade	javispedro: Afaik they need to be bigger?	17:22
jonwil	I just wish Nokia would come out and say that they never actually planned to open anything as part of the "license change requests" BS :P	17:23
javispedro	Venemo: yes, either way I believe it is suggested to use svg files for launcher icons	17:23
javispedro	instead of pngs	17:23
Venemo	well, I will use pngs anyway. I don't have enough inkscape skills for svg	17:23
javispedro	the rendering is done using QtSvg to check if it looks well (svg is too complex and qtsvg sometimes does a disaster)	17:23
Jaffa	javispedro: Got an error when re-submitting. Took http://gitorious.org/attitude/attitude/blobs/master/attitude.svg and submitted it with defaults. Then submitted with nothing (got an error). Then submitted with the same file again, but set to mean and greys at 5bpp. Got a load of "Argument #2 should be an array in ..../index.php line 123, 149, 150, 123, 157, 123, 163 and 123"	17:23
Termana	jonwil, they did open things from that. There's a list on the wiki somewhere	17:24
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: would you mind to explain why you gone mad at me, please	17:24
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: I'm not feeling good about it	17:25
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Jaffa	javispedro: Seems to be the "greys at 5bpp per channel" which causes me problems	17:25
javispedro	Jaffa: yes, I understand you dislike the black dominant color =)	17:25
Jaffa	javispedro: Other suggestion, allow picking (or just specifying the hex code) of a dominant colour	17:26
Jaffa	javispedro: ...and still get the fade and the other suggestions :)	17:26
SpeedEvil	On the topic of webapps that may be useful:	17:26
SpeedEvil	http://www.tiddlywiki.com/	17:26
SpeedEvil	A javascript in-browser wiki.	17:26
vi__	can anyone suggest an app that will let me 'browse' web pages as such?	17:27
SpeedEvil	Save-as - and you're done.	17:27
SpeedEvil	vi__: I assume you don't mean a browser?	17:27
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DocScrutinizer	seems I made it on X-Fade's ignore list - meh	17:27
khertan	javispedro: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0c87a7557be_icon.svg	17:27
SpeedEvil	You need to set file permissions on a persistant basis for that webpage though.	17:27
DocScrutinizer	o/	17:28
SpeedEvil	(ideally)	17:28
khertan	pretty good !	17:28
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SpeedEvil	A 'theme' for that - optimising touch would be awesome.	17:28
javispedro	khertan: yes, but I dislike black	17:28
javispedro	khertan: when I fix grey5 try it, it should get you a yellow one	17:28
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MohammadAG	javispedro, khertan how do you do svg files	17:29
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javispedro	MohammadAG: inkscape	17:30
vi__	SpeedEvil: that is very cool	17:30
vi__	SpeedEvil: if only I could serve it from my n900	17:30
vi__	!!!	17:30
vi__	SpeedEvil: and it syncs!!	17:31
SpeedEvil	vi__: yes - there are sync modules for it. Lots of modules. Also - #tiddlywiki	17:31
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SpeedEvil	Seem to be some devs there - or were.	17:32
vi__	SpeedEvil: #tiddly on freenode?	17:32
khertan	javispedro: yep say me when it s fixed ...	17:32
khertan	the icon is a bit too dark i think	17:33
SpeedEvil	#tiddlywiki	17:33
khertan	MohammadAG: i don't create svg, i extract them from CC Icon Archive :)	17:33
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javispedro	khertan: it gets slightly more bluish	17:35
javispedro	looks a bit better imho	17:36
javispedro	khertan: also: you cannot link svgs to forum, use pngs for that	17:36
alterego	Anyone heard anything back yet after sending AID?	17:37
X-Fade	javispedro: Modern browsers can show them :)	17:37
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Jaffa	javispedro: Ah, ignoring greys works better and gets me blue.	17:37
javispedro	Jaffa: your new attitude bluish icon: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0c8a1419871_icon.svg	17:37
javispedro	;)	17:37
Jaffa	javispedro: You could autorotate to 30deg as per the guidelines as well ;-)	17:37
Termana	javispedro, Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 94371840 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 71 bytes) in /home/javispedro/srv/depot/nit/hicg/index.php on line 76	17:37
Termana	javispedro, too big of a file?	17:38
Jaffa	javispedro: It's great - thank you	17:38
javispedro	Termana: yes, or you are sending too many colors	17:38
javispedro	;P	17:39
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Termana	javispedro, the file is only 3.5KB - must be the colours	17:40
javispedro	Termana: have linkie?	17:40
Termana	javispedro, here is the original jpeg - http://www.clipartguide.com/_thumbs/0511-1001-1318-4338.jpg	17:41
javispedro	ah, I need to check on rasters-embedded-on-svg	17:41
* javispedro has to get back to work =)		17:42
GeneralAntilles	http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon_purple.png or http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon.png	17:43
GeneralAntilles	(Logo will change)	17:43
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: hehe, aperture science one =)	17:43
GeneralAntilles	Sort of	17:43
GeneralAntilles	Aperture Science has got more blades	17:43
GeneralAntilles	So not a DIRECT ripoff. g	17:43
javispedro	you could call it Maeperture =)	17:44
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javispedro	j/k	17:44
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: What's this? A will it blend app?	17:44
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Orange. And don't change it!	17:44
khertan	SpeedEvil: lol	17:45
javispedro	actually purple also looks ok, and will probably leave more of an impact	17:45
khertan	http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0c8ab50a49a_icon.png	17:45
khertan	^ KhtEditor	17:45
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, was thinking about circular aperture blades.	17:46
SpeedEvil	khertan: Looks nice - and should work well on OLED	17:46
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Jaffa	javispedro: Thanks. Anyway, new icon now in gitorious :)	17:46
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Circular?	17:46
GeneralAntilles	Er	17:46
GeneralAntilles	Rounded	17:46
khertan	javispedro: yep Thx !	17:46
* noobmonk3y prods MohammadAG		17:46
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Ah, OK. Concept is cool, then - change the realisation but keep the concept	17:46
javispedro	khertan: Jaffa: yw!	17:47
* noobmonk3y throws a bucket of soggy trouts at frals		17:47
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, you forgot the drop shadow. :P	17:47
* MohammadAG prods noobmonk3y		17:48
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Yes, true. They all seem to have that.	17:48
* noobmonk3y giggles		17:48
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crashanddie	haha	17:49
crashanddie	colleague at work just challenged us to try to DDoS their new server	17:49
crashanddie	simple ping flood from 3 other servers locked up their machine	17:50
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alterego	Has anyone had any thing back after sending Quim the Account ID?	17:53
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X-Fade	People.. really... he is one guy. Give it some time. You won't get the device before the weekend anyway :)	17:53
alterego	Ya-Ya :P	17:53
alterego	I just thought there'd be some automation :P	17:54
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X-Fade	Not for an ad hoc, 250 piece giveaway.	17:54
alterego	fair point	17:54
frals	so anyone seens transformers 3? i hear rumours about a n950 in it	17:55
frals	might just have to go watch it ;(	17:55
alterego	I heard those rumours too	17:55
alterego	Wanna see it	17:55
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* Jaffa doesn't want to go and see it on the off-chance. I'd rather have one in my hands ;-)		17:55
GeneralAntilles	http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon_lightmeter_branded.png and http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon_lightmeter.png	17:56
noobmonk3y	frals: nope :( bahhhh... no time for tv :(	17:56
frals	oi noobmonk3y! long time! ;)	17:56
crashanddie	so...	17:56
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Change the circular top of the second to be the "brand logo"	17:56
crashanddie	you know it's just marketing for a phone you'll have soon	17:56
noobmonk3y	hehe i've been around just not ircing :p	17:56
crashanddie	yet you still want to go see the movie?	17:56
noobmonk3y	keep forgetting to reinstall it :)	17:56
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, the lightmeter head?	17:57
Jaffa	crashanddie: Maybe alterego likes the Transformers movies	17:57
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: yeah	17:57
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I didn't want to use a technical term as I'd almost certainly get it wrong - been far too long since I did proper photography (at school)	17:57
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	17:57
noobmonk3y	Has anyone else noticed that Sergey Ivanov is on the #n950 accepted list twice... lucky him ;)	17:58
Jaffa	noobmonk3y: Yes, it has been noticed	17:58
noobmonk3y	:)	17:58
frals	or maybe its just a common name? ;)	17:58
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crashanddie	is anyone using meego on the desktop?	17:59
mr_jrt	Hey. I've patched a package, and am trying to build the deb for it. I did everything on my device, but dpkg-buildpackage fails due to busybox's gzip not supporting the '-n' argument. So I switched over to try and build it using madde, and have hacked in the extra lib from the device, but again, cannot build the deb due to the package using autotools (which MADDE apparently doesn't support), so the configure stuff falls apart. :(	18:00
mgedmin	how often does maep update map tiles, I wonder	18:00
Jaffa	mgedmin: Cache invalidation. Second hardest problem in computer science (after naming things)	18:01
mgedmin	yep	18:01
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, interesting. Needs more stylization, though, I think. http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/lightmeter_head.png	18:01
mgedmin	I wish mappero used the same tile cache as maep	18:01
khertan	mr_jrt: you can't package on device due to busy box limitation ... if it s a pure python package you can use sdist_maemo	18:02
MohammadAG	frals, C7 methinks	18:04
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Oh, I meant use the Aperture Science bit as the light meter head, but keep the body. However, the body's aspect ratio won't make a good icon anyway	18:06
Jaffa	(I don't think)	18:06
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frals	MohammadAG: i heard x7 and n950	18:06
mr_jrt	khertan: C++ shared lib.	18:06
MohammadAG	Jaffa, doesn't he have to ask GLaDOS	18:07
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Only if he wants cake	18:07
GeneralAntilles	Ah, I see.	18:08
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noobmonk3y	right back laters again - off to a meeting	18:09
SpeedEvil	Oooh! /me notices http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184 and realises he doesn't have email.	18:09
SpeedEvil	Woo!	18:09
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SpeedEvil	Well - not thrown out with the obvious crap anyway.	18:10
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I'll have to see if I can play with the ratios a bit to fit more in. . . . http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/lightmeter_mod.png	18:13
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Yeah	18:16
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SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: An analog meter might work better in the icon	18:21
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GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, yeah, rm_you proposed a light bulb with a dial in front.	18:21
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alterego	thass what I said :D	18:21
alterego	GeneralAntilles: no, that was me :P	18:22
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, whomever, then.	18:22
alterego	(bitch) :P	18:22
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SpeedEvil	The above may be a little fiddly on-screen at the final size	18:23
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Gyjf	im having a problem with my n900 where nonexistant wifi networks show up in the stock wifi connection program	18:23
SpeedEvil	Sure they're not neighbouring?	18:24
Gyjf	i connected once and now they are showing up every time i wanna connect to something	18:24
Gyjf	yes, im sure that they are not there	18:24
SpeedEvil	Odd.	18:24
Gyjf	also, theres a dot over the signal strength indicator	18:25
SpeedEvil	Does areboot cure this?	18:25
Gyjf	nope, it dosnt	18:25
alterego	it means they're adhoc	18:26
DocScrutinizer	btw: aegis conflicts with uBoot	18:27
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Gyjf	aha	18:27
alterego	Which means they are always available after configuring them, to remove them delete them from the network connections in settings.	18:27
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Gyjf	thank you :)	18:27
Gyjf	that actually makes sense	18:27
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alterego	:)	18:28
Gyjf	aaand problem solved :D	18:29
Gyjf	stupid adhoc	18:29
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SpeedEvil	Adhoc is basically turn the reciever on in promisc mode, and blast out raw tcp/ip hoping that that fixes all packet losses?	18:30
SpeedEvil	Never actually set itup.	18:30
Gyjf	something like that	18:31
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Gyjf	but i think a mesh network would be better than adhoc anyway	18:33
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hiemanshu	Venemo: pong?	18:35
Venemo	hiemanshu, does the SDK work for you on F15?	18:36
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hiemanshu	Venemo: which one?	18:36
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hiemanshu	Venemo: harmattan sbox one?	18:37
GAN900	Ugh	18:38
GAN900	The DHL truck pulled up out front when I was walking to the car.	18:38
GAN900	Freaked out for a second.	18:38
Venemo	hiemanshu, yes	18:39
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Venemo	GAN900 ?	18:39
hiemanshu	Venemo: yes, use the .py installer, no patches required for this	18:39
Venemo	hiemanshu, it doesn't work for me	18:39
Venemo	hiemanshu, the Xephyr window stays empty, black	18:39
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hiemanshu	Venemo: hmm, what does it say?	18:39
Jaffa	GAN900: Heh	18:39
hiemanshu	Venemo: ah	18:39
Venemo	hiemanshu, no error messages	18:39
hiemanshu	Venemo: you have to start Xephyr, and at the same time do a meego-sb-session start	18:40
hiemanshu	Venemo: let me get you the exact commands	18:40
Venemo	hiemanshu, yes, I did that. I used the commands from the docs	18:40
mr_jrt	Bodged it :) Grabbed an armel version of gzip from ubuntu's site, dumped it in /usr/local/bin and it all works fine.	18:40
hiemanshu	Venemo: odd, works fine for me	18:41
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Venemo	hmm	18:42
GAN900	Venemo, Nokia usually ships devices via DHL	18:42
GAN900	and since nobody else uses DHL in the US....	18:43
hiemanshu	Venemo: echo $DISPLAY in the sbox shell	18:43
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Jaffa	GAN900: And they are shipping the N950s via DHL as well.	18:43
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Jaffa	GAN900: I've got a DHL tracking number for mine, but I think (from its status), it's sitting in Nokia's Goods Outwards department, and isn't flying over the Nordics on its way to me :-(	18:44
Termana	Jaffa, you only ordered a few hours ago - no mail is that fast! :p	18:45
* SpeedEvil imagines n950s with the power of flight.		18:45
SpeedEvil	Damn - I should have added a quadcopter app.	18:45
MohammadAG	it's all Linus's fault, he should've picked a flying bird as the mascot!	18:45
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Jaffa	Termana: I'm hoping for a flurry of activity overnight	18:48
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obcecado	hello guys, im experiencing issues while trying to associate with a wireless network (802.1x peap mschapv2 with certificate)	18:50
obcecado	it turns out, when i enter all the details, maemo asks me for the cert passwod ?	18:51
obcecado	which i dont have	18:51
obcecado	any hints ?	18:52
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SpeedEvil	I should have done better app pages. Meh.	18:55
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hiemanshu	khertan: congrats btw :D	19:01
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Venemo	hiemanshu, I did 'export DISPLAY=:2'	19:04
Venemo	before meego-sb-session start	19:04
hiemanshu	Venemo: hmm, works fine here	19:05
* GAN900 recalls DHL dropping off the September proto with the apartment leasing office.		19:05
Jaffa	Damn, realised we're well past Helsinki office hours now; so it seems unlikely that anything'll be happening with my device leaving Nokia tonight	19:08
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Jaffa	So, Monday delivery (hopefully)	19:08
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timsamoff	Jaffa: So you got word?	19:09
* timsamoff missed something.		19:09
frals	bah, downside with doing what you love for a living is you try to avoid it on your free time...	19:10
Jaffa	timsamoff: Cos my Nokia Developer account was already, everything was synced up & I was able to order.	19:11
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timsamoff	Jaffa: Ah, cool!	19:13
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MohammadAG	o/ timsamoff	19:15
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timsamoff	\o MohammadAG ;)	19:16
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frals	in case i didnt link it here earlier, Nokia is sponsoring Stockholm Fashion Week in August to show the N9 0:}	19:16
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SpeedEvil	Free n9s to hot models.	19:17
SpeedEvil	I wonder if any of them can code.	19:17
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Corsac	so nokia already settled on n950s to developers?	19:19
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SpeedEvil	Sortof.	19:19
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SpeedEvil	There are two programs.	19:19
SpeedEvil	Commercial side.	19:20
Corsac	yeah but the one from meego.com?	19:20
SpeedEvil	And then open-source side	19:20
SpeedEvil	open-source side is 250 - commercial side is more	19:20
SpeedEvil	123? of the open source ones have been allocated	19:20
frals	133 i think?	19:20
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SpeedEvil	Oh - I though this was another channel - my bad.	19:21
Corsac	mhmh, no mail received :(	19:21
SpeedEvil	So I wasn't bothering with round numbers.	19:21
SpeedEvil	Corsac: That's good though - it means you've not been binned	19:21
SpeedEvil	So 50:50 chance.	19:21
SpeedEvil	(neglecting lots)	19:21
Corsac	:)	19:21
Corsac	SpeedEvil: do elected people got a mail?	19:21
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SpeedEvil	Corsac: Those in the first round I think got mail - the 133	19:22
SpeedEvil	And the 250? that were rejected	19:22
Corsac	any idea what From is used?	19:22
Jaffa	Oooh, no - having said that: mine has been "Processed at HELSINKI-FINLAND" :-D	19:23
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Jaffa	frals: Hmm, I might have to go back to Swedbank in August and get some backstage time with some hot Swedish models.	19:24
frals	Jaffa: :D	19:24
Jaffa	frals: Having seen the median Swedish woman, I can't imagine what the models must be like ;-)	19:24
frals	;)	19:24
frals	(guess why I'm moving back to .SE ;))	19:24
Jaffa	frals: And you get Crown Princess Victoria, we get Prince William.	19:24
Jaffa	frals: Josefina's on a summer evening - bliss.	19:25
frals	Jaffa: We have Princess Madeleine ;-)	19:25
Corsac	Jaffa: can you tell the From:/Enveloppe-From: in the mail your received (assuming you did receive a selection mail from meego.com for n950)	19:26
MohammadAG	no changes to the list yet?	19:27
Jaffa	Corsac: I didn't get the meego.com email, brecause everything was already set up with my Nokia Developer account. The logs have the From & Subject that I got from developer.nokia.com	19:27
Corsac	ok	19:27
Termana	frals, my oh my - you DO have Princess Madeleine	19:28
Termana	Corsac, comes from Quim	19:28
GeneralAntilles	timsamoff, hey-ho.	19:28
MohammadAG	Termana, Karaoke app :D	19:29
Corsac	Termana: thanks :)	19:29
Termana	MohammadAG, TROLL FACE	19:29
Termana	MohammadAG, see, you should have stolen my idea, then you would have got an N950!	19:29
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Termana	Not such a bad idea after all now was it MohammadAG? :p	19:30
MohammadAG	I never knew you did development :p	19:30
timsamoff	Hi GeneralAntilles!	19:30
Termana	yeah, nah man, I sit around on me arse and drink beer like a typical 'stralian	19:31
dm8tbr	fosters?	19:32
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Termana	dm8tbr, I see you know some people who drive commonwhores	19:33
Termana	s/commonwhores/commodores/	19:34
infobot	Termana meant: dm8tbr, I see you know some people who drive commodores	19:34
dm8tbr	sorry, couldn't resist a stereotype	19:34
Termana	:p	19:35
Jaffa	frals: Wow, Princess Madeleine... wow.	19:35
Jaffa	frals: And your King looks like Jim Broadbent!	19:35
frals	;D	19:36
Jaffa	It's very disturbing coming through Arlanda and seeing all the "this is my home town" and seeing Jim Broadbent.	19:36
* GeneralAntilles updates the Qt SDK.		19:36
frals	haha	19:37
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frals	https://twitter.com/#!/klasstrom/status/86468867412598784	19:40
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Termana	I'm off to bed, good night all	19:42
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SpeedEvil	Night!	19:42
GAN900	RST38h, ping?	19:42
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edheldil	a bit simplistic question, but what are the recommended brands of Micro SDHC I should use for n900? SanDisks have only class 2 here	19:48
alterego	Still no email from quim about the AID :(	19:49
GAN900	lol	19:50
alterego	hungry ...	19:50
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* alterego wonders off.		19:50
frals	alterego: i read that as "about the AIDS"	19:50
dm8tbr	edheldil: the class thingy sucks as it doesn't say about random access.	19:50
dm8tbr	edheldil: but class 6 seems to be about what performs ok enough for things like e.g. meego installs	19:51
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Venemo	[17:42] <GAN900> Venemo, Nokia usually ships devices via DHL ---> that is good to hear :)	19:53
Venemo	alterego, no email for me either	19:54
alterego	you get a tracking number as well apparently.	19:54
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Venemo	I just wish it to be here already	19:55
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alterego	Heh, soon enough	19:56
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Venemo	how soon?	19:57
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alterego	Soon	19:57
Venemo	soon™ (as with CCP) ?	19:57
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frals	blizzard soon	19:58
alterego	I just think Quim might be drowning in our AIDs	19:59
frals	CCP soon is too soon!	19:59
MohammadAG	I just want my name on the wiki /me cries	19:59
macmaN	so what is the deal, MohammadAG still isnt certain?	20:00
alterego	MohammadAG: "don't worry"	20:00
macmaN	maybe your name is alphabetically so behind	20:00
macmaN	knawmean?	20:00
alterego	I think it's to do with export rules to his country :P	20:00
MohammadAG	I already got an N900 shipped here :p	20:01
alterego	That wasn't a loan :P	20:01
MohammadAG	it was, it was just never asked for :p	20:01
MohammadAG	yet	20:01
MohammadAG	that's why I kept it in out of the box new condition	20:01
MohammadAG	it even has the sticker on the back	20:01
alterego	"Dear MAG, we're writing to tell you, instead of getting an N950, we want all your N900s back"	20:02
* alterego chortles		20:02
frals	i remember first time i went to HEL and met quim	20:02
MohammadAG	<alterego> MohammadAG: "don't worry" <-- this and that ^ contradict :P	20:02
frals	he pretty much threw a n900 box at me and never heard about it again	20:02
alterego	MohammadAG: sure, take the first answer ;)	20:03
* MohammadAG cries		20:03
alterego	MohammadAG: seriously, don't worrk :)	20:03
MohammadAG	frals, does the N9 come with MMS? :P	20:03
alterego	heh, harmattan has MMS	20:03
* frals tries to update Qt SDK and install Harmattan toolchain		20:03
frals	MohammadAG: yes	20:03
frals	;)	20:03
timsamoff	Have a good day everyone. ;)	20:03
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alterego	frals: did you do it? :)	20:06
frals	no ;<	20:06
alterego	Heh	20:07
alterego	But you have an N9 so you can do one :P	20:07
frals	most of the fun stuff was done when i was up to speed on stuff	20:07
alterego	Ah right	20:07
frals	can see some of the stuff did at meego.gitorious.org thou ;-) (not mms related)	20:08
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alterego	:)	20:08
alterego	I'm thinking of disabling meego mls for a bit, keep getting notifications, that aren't from launchpad!	20:09
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frals	alterego: filters = win	20:09
frals	anything from meego MLs goes straight to subfolders without notification :P	20:09
GAN900	Ugh	20:10
GAN900	Mailing list overload.	20:10
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MohammadAG	frals, I'm guessing your MMS implementation is open? :P	20:25
frals	gitorious.org/fmms always been :p	20:28
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kerio	MMSes are evil, i say	20:33
kerio	evil	20:33
kerio	avoid them!	20:33
kerio	frals is the devil!	20:33
hiemanshu	Venemo: sorry I was away, didja get it to work?	20:34
MohammadAG	frals, Harmattan :P	20:35
MohammadAG	cause it's probably C++ there ;)	20:35
Venemo	hiemanshu, no, I gave up	20:35
Venemo	hiemanshu, I'll probably just use MADDE anyway once the device gets here	20:35
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hiemanshu	Venemo: well, I have it working	20:37
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Venemo	hiemanshu, good for you :)	20:38
hiemanshu	Venemo: Well, you should try to do a meego-sb-session start after a couple of seconds delay after the Xephyr command, and try removing -extension Composite	20:38
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Venemo	hiemanshu, hm	20:40
Venemo	hiemanshu, I will try	20:40
hiemanshu	Venemo: for me at times it fails to start with -extenstion Composite	20:40
hiemanshu	but works just fine without it	20:40
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Venemo	hiemanshu, okay, I'm trying	20:41
* divan got Google+ invite.. But can't apply it. Google+ says "try again later".		20:43
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hiemanshu	divan: right, they have exceeded limits or something	20:45
hiemanshu	also, if anyone cares, Steam Sale :D	20:45
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Atarii	Damn, it's only been a week and I've lost my N900 stylus already! Is there any offical replacement pack or reputable sources to buy from?	20:50
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Venemo	Atarii, as I recall, Fake sells them alongside his stands	20:51
Atarii	is that someone from here or foums?	20:51
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kerio	Atarii: i bought one on ebay	20:53
kerio	felt bad, man	20:53
kerio	:(	20:53
Venemo	Atarii, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43593	20:53
Atarii	kerio does it fit ok into device? near enough to normal one?	20:53
Atarii	thanks Venemo :)	20:54
kerio	i bought a nokia one	20:54
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alterego	I just saw the last episode of quantum leep	20:57
alterego	~leap ..	20:57
alterego	Forgot how sad it was :'(	20:57
achipa	heh	20:58
achipa	just ran QtInfo on N950	20:58
achipa	and it says... Hardware features: Bluetooth, Camera, FM Radio, LED, Memory card, USB, Vibra, WiFi, SIM, GPS, Haptics	20:58
alterego	:)	20:58
hiemanshu	alterego: I take it you are getting a N950 too?	20:58
alterego	Yeah, at some point, when I hear back from Launchpad :D	20:58
alterego	Or Quim, or however it's going to work.	20:59
hiemanshu	alterego: so not in the first round?	20:59
alterego	Yeah	21:00
alterego	I was on the first list.	21:00
alterego	Got the acceptance email, replied back with my developer nokia account id	21:00
alterego	Just sitting waiting now ..	21:00
hiemanshu	alterego: ah, I dont know your real name but I saw columbus on the list :D	21:01
alterego	:)	21:01
alterego	Tom Swindell :P	21:01
hiemanshu	right	21:01
hiemanshu	alterego: Swindell is a mis-splet spindle with s,w,p and +l	21:02
* hiemanshu runs		21:02
* hiemanshu remembers that because some other Swindell I knew told me his name like that		21:03
alterego	Weird	21:04
alterego	I heard my name originates from pig farming in scotland	21:04
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alterego	Wine Dale	21:04
alterego	Or something	21:04
alterego	Erm, Swine Dale	21:04
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Venemo	alterego, interesting :)	21:05
alterego	Meh :)	21:06
alterego	I bet we were cutting edge MeeGo pig farmers	21:06
hiemanshu	well I am lucky not to have a weird name, esp likes the ones around here in India	21:06
Atarii	thanks Venemo, I've fired him off an email	21:07
hiemanshu	I have a friend whose full name is around 24 words	21:07
Atarii	"round 24 words"? were his parents on drugs?	21:07
hiemanshu	Atarii: well no, a lot of indians in south india have the names of loads of before generations, caste, village and other stuff like that	21:08
Atarii	ah, does that mean it's rare to have people with the same name?	21:08
hiemanshu	very	21:08
hiemanshu	'Warnakulasuriya Patabendige Ushantha Joseph Chaminda Vaas' for example is a famous cricketer from Sri Lanka	21:09
Atarii	wow	21:10
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hiemanshu	I am pretty sure the only name you can pronouce from that is Joseph :P	21:11
Atarii	agreed ;p	21:11
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rm_work	GeneralAntilles: well, no email here yet either	21:17
rm_work	so, i guess that's good-ish	21:17
rm_work	i wouldn't expected my application to be a slam-dunk anyway since i basically stopped developing around the time i actually got an N900 <_<	21:18
* mgedmin jumps up and down excitedly		21:24
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mgedmin	got an email!	21:24
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: duh!	21:25
DocScrutinizer	I got a DHL notification ;-P	21:25
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: it's called a spam	21:26
jacekowski	or a virus	21:26
DocScrutinizer	"please pick up your mail at..." - alas it's just some silly letter	21:26
jacekowski	if that's the one i'm thinking about	21:26
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: nope, it's a paper in my letterbox	21:26
DocScrutinizer	a card actually	21:26
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jacekowski	oldschool	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Stupid Nokia better figure out my LaunchPad account.	21:27
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Bastards.	21:27
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rm_work	lol GeneralAntilles	21:27
rm_work	is that the same account as for the n900 dev program?	21:27
rm_work	because i had that account all set up back then, but never actually used the dev program	21:27
DocScrutinizer	I wonder when my mail arrives "Sorry, we've been informed you hate aegis. This device isn't for you" :-P	21:28
frals	DocScrutinizer: if hating aegis would revoke device access... well.... :P	21:29
DocScrutinizer	lol	21:29
DocScrutinizer	check your backscroll ;-)	21:29
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MohammadAG	YES I WAS ACCEPTED :D	21:44
X-Fade	No? Really? Who would have thought that :)	21:44
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Itschue	moin moin	21:45
Itschue	i want to play angry birds but what is better install preenv and install angry birds or install webos and us this for installing angry birds ?	21:47
Atarii	lol literally pressing Install button for Angry Birds and you typed that	21:48
X-Fade	Just install it from OVI?	21:48
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GAN900	rm_work, no	21:48
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: YAY!	21:49
GAN900	At least, the LaunchPad stuff wasn't involved then.	21:49
Itschue	in ovi i only see the levelpacks	21:49
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: NO MORE ANDROID AND DALVIK AND SHIT </rant>	21:49
GAN900	MohammadAG, Quim comes through again. :P	21:49
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I still wonder, why not first round :/	21:49
GAN900	hiemanshu, I wouldn't try to divine too much from it.	21:50
Itschue	x-fade	21:50
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, I actually didn't think I was gonna make it :P	21:54
hiemanshu	hmmm, opencv really takes a lot of time to build :/	21:54
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DocScrutinizer	Itschue: angrybirds should be installable via hildon app manager I think	22:03
Atarii	yup	22:04
Itschue	in didnt see it in ham but i didnt have devel activ	22:04
DocScrutinizer	should be in extras	22:04
DocScrutinizer	search for bird	22:04
Itschue	with other name?	22:04
Itschue	i searched for angry	22:05
DocScrutinizer	you know the search option?	22:05
Itschue	yes still type in	22:05
DocScrutinizer	select "all"	22:05
hiemanshu	ok, I got opencv to build in sbox (after a couple of patches)	22:05
hiemanshu	for harmattan	22:06
DocScrutinizer	if you can't find it, check your list of installed apps in "uninstall"	22:06
Itschue	but i want to have option that shows the available packages in date order	22:06
Itschue	and for the future wich is the better way from these two install preenv and than the games or webos and with this the games?	22:07
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Itschue	ham is fucking slow	22:07
Atarii	get Faster Application Manager	22:08
Itschue	i had trouble with fap man i dont want to use this anymore	22:08
Itschue	DocScrutinizer cant find angry birds by type bird or angry	22:09
Trizt	even FAM is slow, better to just use apt-get	22:10
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Atarii	Trizt true. Itschue use apt-cache search birds	22:10
noobmonk3y	congrats MohammadAG :) :)	22:10
noobmonk3y	and actually congrats to many peoples in here :) hehe	22:10
MohammadAG	thanks noobmonk3y :D	22:11
noobmonk3y	very deserved :) - can't wait to see what you produce for meego! :)	22:11
Trizt	MohammadAG; you got yourself a n950?	22:11
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noobmonk3y	trizt - second round just done :)	22:12
noobmonk3y	Trizt: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia	22:12
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DocScrutinizer	Itschue: http://pastebin.com/nyhmVH5i	22:13
Itschue	apt-gat cache find it	22:13
hiemanshu	noobmonk3y: how many more left? (devices)	22:13
DocScrutinizer	angrybirds is in PR1.3 it seems	22:13
Trizt	MohammadAG; congrats which you many sleepless nights ;)	22:14
* Trizt leave the computer to spend some time to wife to be		22:15
noobmonk3y	lol!	22:15
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: if it doesn't show up in HAM, makes sure your maemo nokia download catalogues are not flawed	22:16
Itschue	apt-get cache find angry birds apt-cache policy says non installed and on the downloads.maemo.nokia.... are 2 available so why ham didnt show me angry birds?	22:16
DocScrutinizer	let me check	22:17
DocScrutinizer	will take some minutes, HAM is slow as you know	22:17
X-Fade	Itschue: Use ovi store.	22:17
X-Fade	Itschue: not apt	22:17
Itschue	where i can see or fix the flowed cataloges?	22:18
alterego	MohammadAG: I told you you were on the list	22:18
alterego	I said don't worry and be patient :P	22:18
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: listen to X-Fade	22:18
Itschue	i dont want use ovi store	22:18
DocScrutinizer	then try apt-get install angrybirds	22:19
X-Fade	Itschue: Then you are out of luck.	22:19
noobmonk3y	lol alterego any other visionary names? :)	22:19
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Itschue	but i need preenv so what is better install preenv and angry birds and other webos games over apt-get or webos games manager?	22:19
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: actually I wonder if it'd be a good thing to flash a clean PR1.3 on your RMA-returned device	22:20
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: preenv is a completely different thing	22:20
DocScrutinizer	angrybirds is a native maemo app	22:21
Itschue	all angry bird are native maemo app seasons rio?	22:21
DocScrutinizer	yup, angrybirds doesn't show up in HAM, probably this hidden stuff from OVI appstore	22:22
Itschue	ok	22:22
Itschue	actually I wonder if it'd be a good thing to flash a clean PR1.3 on your RMA-returned device why?	22:22
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, which IRC client you think you'll port?	22:22
DocScrutinizer	IIRC angrybirds should be there by default - even if I'm wrong on that, it still is a sane thing to get a n	22:23
DocScrutinizer	known good system	22:23
DocScrutinizer	after repair men messed with it :-)	22:23
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trx	damn batches, again i havent recieved any mail :/	22:23
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Itschue	so my rma returned device isnt really clean like it is when i flash it now with pr1.3 and flash vanilla and fiasco?	22:25
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MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, wtf is Brief account description	22:25
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, in the LaunchPad form?	22:25
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, if so, I just put some generic wish-wash about why I need a LaunchPad account.	22:27
Itschue	hmm	22:27
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Itschue	muuhh	22:29
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: who knows. once you flash vanilla and combined, you're sure about state of your system, as well as about fixed eMMC or whatever caused the failure to flash VANILLA	22:31
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: heh, congrats	22:31
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: I entered "blablabla" there, by accident, to go on to a presumed second page of that form ;-P	22:32
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DocScrutinizer	some 10h later launchpad accound got granted	22:33
Itschue	ok i i flash my device but not yet i do that tomorrow and what is better for webos games install preenv and the games over apt-get or install webos and with this the games?	22:36
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: been 10 days here, nothing :P	22:39
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: launchpad?	22:39
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yes	22:39
Venemo_N900	hey MohammadAG	22:39
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: same for javispedro, just for him it's 6 months now	22:39
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: yes	22:39
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, this is your lucky day, have you noticed? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia	22:39
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: also did you get any email?	22:39
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: you are late to the party, you can take that corner there ----->	22:40
DocScrutinizer	I get ~3 email / minute - what are you referring to particularly?	22:40
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, wut?	22:40
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: heh, about your application :P	22:40
DocScrutinizer	nah	22:40
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: so you are still in the game :D	22:40
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, I was among the first to join the party, only left because of connectivity issues	22:41
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: ah ok :D	22:41
DocScrutinizer	they won't notify me about my reclassification from quinClass-1 to quimClass-0 due to bitching about aegis	22:41
MohammadAG	ooh, an NDA	22:41
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: NDA?	22:42
DocScrutinizer	launchpad	22:42
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, already got the email :)	22:42
hiemanshu	right	22:42
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG :)	22:42
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: fine, so you can bring USB hostmode to N9, will need it desperately regarding the missing uSD slot	22:44
MohammadAG	where do I get my Forum Nokia Id?	22:46
MohammadAG	this Nokia Developer User ID ?	22:47
DocScrutinizer	forum.nokia is now forum.developer.nokia	22:47
DocScrutinizer	or sth like that	22:47
DocScrutinizer	so yes, probably	22:48
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Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, go to the premium-account site again, and it will be the top left field	22:50
trumee	DocScrutinizer: didnt apply for N950?	22:50
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, AID-0000xxxx	22:50
DocScrutinizer	I did	22:50
MohammadAG	Your application is being processed, you will be notified by email once the application has been reviewed. I'm assuming I'm done?	22:50
DocScrutinizer	trumee: konttori suggested I should	22:51
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, yep. don't forget to send a reply to Quim's mail	22:51
trumee	DocScrutinizer: and didnt work out?	22:51
MohammadAG	where's this?	22:51
MohammadAG	can't find it	22:51
DocScrutinizer	trumee: not yet	22:51
trumee	DocScrutinizer: too bad.	22:51
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, step 2 in Quim's mail contains the url	22:51
DocScrutinizer	:shrug:	22:51
MohammadAG	You have an existing contact, please disassociate from developer account page before creating a new account.	22:51
MohammadAG	I just made it and agreed to an NDA	22:52
Venemo_N900	hmmm	22:52
fiferboy	MohammadAG: I created my Launchpad account 10 days ago and I am still getting that	22:52
DocScrutinizer	trumee: look, N9 isn't my dream device, so I'd develop for it for community, not for me. I'm not desperate if I don't get a N9-devkit	22:52
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: it isnt the user name?	22:52
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, nope	22:52
hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: darn-it I sent him the user name :P	22:53
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Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, heh	22:53
MohammadAG	can't see any AIDs	22:53
Venemo_N900	lol	22:54
DocScrutinizer	look for SIDA ;-P	22:54
hiemanshu	ok	22:56
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hiemanshu	so which is the premium site page?	22:56
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hiemanshu	if I go the registration link I get You have an existing contact, please disassociate from developer account page before creating a new account.	22:56
MohammadAG	I sent him the one at the end of my NDA	22:57
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: I had to log out all browser tabs and windows, to relogin - if that helps	22:57
MohammadAG	it said Nokia Developer Id	22:59
DocScrutinizer	also you'll receive some confirmation mail with a confirmation URL to activate the account fully. Doesn't work prior to doing that	22:59
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I made a launchpad account about 10 days ago, I am guessing that would have asked me to make a premium registration?	23:00
DocScrutinizer	the whole developer.nokia.com felt quite like an online dungeaon to me :-)	23:00
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: no clue	23:00
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hiemanshu	Venemo_N900: wanna help me out? :P	23:01
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trumee	DocScrutinizer: i will need somebody to test N9 against my * server :)	23:02
MohammadAG	oh shit found it	23:02
MohammadAG	for the record https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml	23:02
javispedro	you can get there by developer.nokia.com, profile -> edit -> developer profile	23:03
DocScrutinizer	trumee: I'd be glad to help, but I guess you have to find somebody else	23:03
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, that is what I was talking about	23:03
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DocScrutinizer	isn't it an exciting text adventure? ;-D	23:04
javispedro	actually it is developer.nokia.com -> Settings -> Settings again -> Developer Account =)	23:04
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javispedro	the Nokia Developer maze.	23:04
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, that was in settings	23:04
Venemo_N900	hiemanshu, see what MohammadAG linked	23:04
DocScrutinizer	yeah \o/	23:05
javispedro	possibly designed as a barrier-to-entry.	23:05
hiemanshu	yes	23:05
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, yepp	23:05
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: indeed	23:05
hiemanshu	MohammadAG saves the day again :D	23:05
Venemo_N900	:)	23:05
MohammadAG	javispedro, yep, that's where I found it, not at the top left of the page ;)\	23:05
DocScrutinizer	that's why they don't need to reject "blablabla" reason for launchpad ;-)	23:05
* javispedro hits DocScrutinizer		23:05
DocScrutinizer	lol	23:05
MohammadAG	now to read the NDA	23:06
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, well, I saw it on the top left field	23:06
javispedro	I at least I feel more confident now that I know that I'm not alone waiting for my approval.	23:06
Venemo_N900	not on the top left of the page obviously	23:06
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javispedro	otherwise I would have thought they're on to me.	23:06
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: enjoy	23:06
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I fell asleep halfway thru	23:06
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, well, whatever it says, I agreed to it	23:06
MohammadAG	so I better know what I'm up against	23:06
DocScrutinizer	hehe	23:07
* javispedro hears the black helicopters		23:07
MohammadAG	one question	23:07
MohammadAG	what if a user who applied doesn't know english well?	23:07
javispedro	bah, the black helicopters jokes are no longer funny, not now that Nokia is a third-world corporation after the elopcalypse.	23:07
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MohammadAG	legal english isn't that better fwiw	23:08
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: major fail	23:08
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: (legal english) see why I fell asleep?	23:09
DocScrutinizer	actually first I got headache, then fell asleep	23:09
MohammadAG	NDA should have smileys	23:09
MohammadAG	NDAs*	23:09
javispedro	they have	23:09
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: lets edit that PDF and add some :D	23:09
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javispedro	MohammadAG: every time they say "you" envision a >:D added after it	23:10
hiemanshu	1) We know own your soul :D 2) We own everything you make ;) 3)Naaw dawg, I was kidding xD	23:10
hiemanshu	s/know/now/	23:10
infobot	hiemanshu meant: 1) We now own your soul :D 2) We own everything you make ;) 3)Naaw dawg, I was kidding xD	23:10
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GeneralAntilles	javispedro, any way you can add the dropshadow?	23:11
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: ah yes, that, you were absolutely right.	23:11
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: that's actually amazingly rare a word in legal text	23:12
GeneralAntilles	Though I'd make it optional.	23:12
GeneralAntilles	mikhail's Twitter icon looks better without it there.	23:12
javispedro	I've been reading (during work hours >:) ) and seems it is very easy using some svg stuff	23:12
javispedro	will code it now	23:12
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MohammadAG	so anyone who's read it, do I have to stfu about anything?	23:12
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: usually the terms are ""the loser"" and ""the company""	23:13
DocScrutinizer	rather than "you" and "we"	23:13
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javispedro	oh	23:14
javispedro	I know remember that I had a FN user id, and it's completely different to the AID.	23:14
GeneralAntilles	AID is the number	23:14
javispedro	*now	23:15
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DocScrutinizer	so it's >>1) The company now own the loser's soul :D 2) The company own everything the loser make ;) 3)Naaw dawg, the company was kidding xD	23:15
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Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, according to Jaffa, you must not publicize any deficiencies of the device	23:15
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: yes, but the FN id is also a 7-digit id... and a different one.	23:15
cehteh	hp licenses WebOS to samsung .. haha	23:15
javispedro	cehteh: WHAT?	23:16
cehteh	javispedro: rumors .. but i bet that will turn out true ...	23:16
fiferboy	There is a "Primary Account ID" (AID-00000xxxxx) and "Nokia Developer User ID" (xxxxxxx)	23:16
cehteh	http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bericht-HP-will-WebOS-an-Samsung-lizenzieren-1270974.html	23:16
DocScrutinizer	OMFG	23:16
cehteh	pwn :)	23:17
javispedro	aber Ich spreche nur ein bischen Deutsch!	23:17
cehteh	yeah wait a few days or until its announced on other news channels	23:17
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, Engadget had an article this morning.	23:17
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: learn chinese and german, or you'll not keep up ;-)	23:18
cehteh	hey samsung could sell Baida (or what was its name?) to nokia :P	23:18
GeneralAntilles	So who's going to release an unbranded theme for Harmattan first?	23:18
GeneralAntilles	Nobody wants to demo an N950 to friends with "DEVELOPER EDITION" plastered all over it.	23:18
GeneralAntilles	(anybody remember the OS2006 betas?)	23:18
DocScrutinizer	bada	23:18
javispedro	is that true? does it have that all over the place, M$ beta style?	23:18
Venemo_N900	GeneralAntilles, what was on the os2006 betas	23:19
DocScrutinizer	which raster called a "hickup" ;-)	23:19
cehteh	yeah	23:19
GeneralAntilles	BETA in big bold letters	23:19
GeneralAntilles	http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7809/591/1600/screenshot00.png	23:19
GeneralAntilles	It was worse on those scary candy themes: http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~fuchs/nokia770/screenshots/old/screenshot00.png	23:19
cehteh	i secretly wondered if samsung might be the next big one who tries a open platform .. no bets yet but not completely impossible	23:20
* GeneralAntilles misses the 770.		23:20
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: sed -i "s/DEVELOPER EDITION/GAN'S ACME VERSION/" *	23:20
cehteh	i never seen webos in action but its told to be nice	23:20
DocScrutinizer	wait, aegis won't allow that XP	23:20
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: bada in hindi = big :P	23:21
Venemo_N900	GeneralAntilles, interesting	23:21
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: raster is working on that samsung open platform since, well years	23:21
cehteh	i know	23:21
cehteh	samsung is at least not openly hostile to free software	23:22
cehteh	and the way some of their products are locked down (and can be broken) leaves speculations that its not completely unintentional	23:22
Venemo_N900	hm	23:23
cehteh	having a comment in a init script at the exact place and size to overwrite it # comment -> ; telnetd	23:24
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, only if you insist	23:24
Venemo_N900	nah, I'm going to sleep now.. bye!	23:24
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: nice	23:25
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MohammadAG	isn't Alan Bruce qole?	23:35
fiferboy	MohammadAG: Yes	23:36
RST38h	Moo, gentemen	23:36
RST38h	How is suffering tonight?	23:36
MohammadAG	so he got accepted, /me wonders why the last post implies he wasn't	23:37
MohammadAG	moo RST38h	23:37
fiferboy	MohammadAG: I think he means his application work is considered "on the fringe" in Quim's rating scheme	23:38
fiferboy	The poster seems to have interpreted it wrong	23:38
noobmonk3y	lol and that makes me so far on the fringe that i should be in the tv show the fringe? :P	23:38
MohammadAG	oh noobmonk3y's still here :D	23:40
noobmonk3y	yup!	23:40
noobmonk3y	sitting here smoking my electric cigarette... wooo yay i can smoke in the flat!	23:40
MohammadAG	I thought those were more harmful than normal cigarettes	23:41
noobmonk3y	well, only nicotene, no tar etc... bahhhm anyway saving me a bunch of money	23:41
noobmonk3y	and i can smoke at my desk at work :P	23:41
noobmonk3y	i feel a bit retro :P	23:41
MohammadAG	anyway, I hope you did the right thing	23:42
noobmonk3y	the right thing?	23:42
MohammadAG	overclocked the shit out of it	23:43
noobmonk3y	lmfao!	23:43
noobmonk3y	supercharged cigarette... genius	23:43
noobmonk3y	it does charge via my pc... hmmmmmmm	23:43
MohammadAG	then we need hostmode on the N9 to charge cigarettes	23:44
noobmonk3y	grrr the waigint is killing me :( i swear it'll be down to 1 device and 2 people before i get told no ;) hehe	23:44
piggz	balls...it looks like i didnt send him my id, like someone above...	23:44
noobmonk3y	aiting*	23:44
piggz	btw, contrags MohammadAG	23:44
MohammadAG	thanks piggz, you can still send it afaik	23:45
noobmonk3y	:)	23:45
piggz	MohammadAG: where do i find the id..i thought it was the username...	23:45
MohammadAG	https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml	23:46
noobmonk3y	go into your account	23:46
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noobmonk3y	then click "developer Account" on the right hand menu	23:46
noobmonk3y	it will show at the top :)	23:46
piggz	ah yes, i see it	23:47
piggz	thx	23:47
piggz	alterego: i suspect my name also originates from pig farming...who would have thought, 2 pig farmers getting N950s	23:50
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: what's with your journey now? postponed?	23:58
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, not traveling till the device arrives	23:59
DocScrutinizer	;-)	23:59
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DocScrutinizer	prepare for even more suspense then	23:59

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