IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-06-29

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MohammadAG	I wish someone would improve my System* classes	00:01
rcg1	MohammadAG: it's just you seem to be all-around when it gets to development stuff.. so i wonder if you are just that damn brilliant and do things in near zero time or invest so much of your spare time	00:01
javispedro	I wish someone would improve my System.	00:01
javispedro	evening folks.	00:01
DocScrutinizer	hi javispedro	00:02
Jaffa	Hmm, sshed into the qmu image. There's a file: /home/user/"what.me.worry". 5MB. Seems to be binary. Any ideas?	00:02
DocScrutinizer	rcg1: MohammadAG does a lot of maintenance, not all of that he completely developed from scratch on his own	00:02
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MohammadAG	I finished Sociality in 3 days, of non-non-stop work	00:02
MohammadAG	double nons intended	00:02
MohammadAG	point is, if I have the time, I can help :)	00:02
MohammadAG	javispedro, I'll do that, will you do my classes? :P	00:02
MohammadAG	they only need MeeGo + Harmattan support!	00:02
rm_work	lol yeah i wish i had the kind of time i used to :(	00:03
javispedro	like if I knew any System* classes other than BillGates'	00:03
rcg1	DocScrutinizer: ic.. but he still is way damn more productive than me.. at least thats the feeling i have ;)	00:03
DocScrutinizer	rcg1: and he usually properly attributes the contributors	00:03
rm_work	back when i started here i was a student so i had NOTHING during summers, and lots of time during the year still anyway (plus holidays)	00:03
Jaffa	file on my box says: ".what.me.worry": ELF 32-bit LSB core file ARM, version 1 (SYSV), SVR4-style, from '/opt/Attitude/bin/Attitude'	00:04
rm_work	now i get two weeks off per year and work 45h/week >_>	00:04
rcg1	hence i just asked.. cause one starts to woner whether oneself is just that busy/slow/lazy whatsoever	00:04
Jaffa	How odd	00:04
rcg1	no offense.. just respect for the work you do MohammadAG ;)	00:04
DocScrutinizer	rcg1: he's still way more productive and agile than many of us	00:04
rm_work	yep :P	00:04
DocScrutinizer	rcg1: he's young ;-)	00:04
rcg1	heh ic	00:04
MohammadAG	I learned from all of you :P	00:05
rcg1	DocScrutinizer now that makes me feel damn old again	00:05
MohammadAG	first time I was here I didn't know what ls did	00:05
rcg1	just what i wanted to avoid	00:05
rcg1	;P	00:05
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: kudos, you did a cs study in less than the regular time then	00:05
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rcg1	MohammadAG: talk about making me feel way damn older n slower	00:05
MohammadAG	I'll disappear on 10/11/12 /7	00:05
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, heh :D	00:06
HRH_H_Crab	big up all of you coders.	00:06
HRH_H_Crab	you all rock.	00:07
rm_work	lcuk is one guy who had very little time and STILL got tons done, not sure how he managed :P	00:07
rm_work	i need to figure out his secret	00:07
rcg1	well, nevermind.. was just curious ;)	00:07
lcuk	one secret?	00:07
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lcuk	I have many.	00:08
rm_work	lol	00:08
rm_work	lcuk: you just think differently :P	00:08
MohammadAG	lcuk's awesome	00:08
lcuk	no I just learn from things and try and try again until I get it right	00:08
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: I mist have a ton. One secret isn't enough for this sort of awesomeness	00:08
DocScrutinizer	must*	00:08
lcuk	the 10k vb projects show that ;)	00:08
DocScrutinizer	damn	00:08
rm_work	lol	00:08
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: You must have a ton. One secret isn't enough for this sort of awesomeness	00:08
MohammadAG	I remember when he first PM'd me and told me to recompile liqbase for the N900	00:09
MohammadAG	I have to be honest, I kinda wtf'd, didn't know how to do that :p	00:09
rm_work	lol	00:09
rm_work	i remember when i was trying to convince him to open-source it :P	00:09
MohammadAG	Debian packaging, only learned cause qwerty12 mentioned debian/rules and dpkg-buildpackage in once sentence	00:09
MohammadAG	learned it*	00:09
* javispedro feels old		00:10
MohammadAG	C/C++, couldn't read it till September last year	00:10
javispedro	I think I can see my hair falling	00:10
MohammadAG	open source what? :P	00:10
lcuk	rm_work, still not sure about that one	00:10
MoonTiger	lcuk, are you into qt nowadays too?	00:11
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: cut it short! ;-P	00:11
rcg1	heh MohammadAG so your a damn fast learner.. took me much longer to grasp that stuff	00:11
rm_work	lcuk: lol	00:11
lcuk	MoonTiger, i would personally not like to be because it is harder than my code	00:11
rm_work	lcuk: like i said, you can always re-license new versions :P or dual license	00:11
MohammadAG	rcg1, alterego and Venemo helped a lot	00:11
rcg1	for quite a while ebuild were all that i knew	00:11
lcuk	i am trying to create professional apps from some of the liqbase stuff	00:11
MoonTiger	lcuk, so it's written in c/gtk?	00:11
MohammadAG	liqbase doesn't use Gtk, it uses magic	00:12
lcuk	MoonTiger, no, liqbase is written in c/liq*	00:12
MoonTiger	ahhhhhh	00:12
* MoonTiger is not worthy		00:12
rm_work	lcuk: which is fine :P you maintain copyright, you can relicense it however you want whenever you want	00:12
* rcg1 neither		00:12
javispedro	omg so Google is now doing their own facebook	00:12
rm_work	lol	00:12
javispedro	"emphasis on privacy "	00:12
lcuk	rm_work, if only life was so simple	00:12
RST38h	javispedro: surprise? :)	00:12
javispedro	omg where do I sign up and give all my personal info.	00:13
rm_work	"Hi Facebook, we're Google. You may have heard of us."	00:13
javispedro	what, it's google.	00:13
MoonTiger	javispedro, its called gmail?	00:13
javispedro	I do not need to give my personal info.	00:13
rm_work	yeah, they already have it... good point :P	00:13
javispedro	rm_work++	00:13
rm_work	lol	00:13
MohammadAG	Yeah, cause Google Buzz totally overtook twitter	00:13
javispedro	RST38h: tbh I thought they would relaunch orkut or similar, not try to actually seriously compete.	00:13
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MoonTiger	heh it was a surprising failure	00:13
MohammadAG	and Google Wave	00:14
rm_work	Google's Facebook -- no need to sign up, you already have an account, and all your personal info and likes/dislikes are already listed, they even created groups for every possibl thing and put you in the ones you wanted to be in anyway	00:14
rm_work	you just have to log in :P	00:14
RST38h	javispedro: In 10 years from now, "social scientists" will defend dissertations about how current social networks bubble has been caused by humans' instinct of crowding together when threatened	00:14
RST38h	javispedro: If there will be any social scientists left to write those dissertations, of course =)	00:15
lcuk	RST38h, I thought it was just boredom	00:15
MohammadAG	they should call it GooBook	00:15
* lcuk will write a book soon		00:15
rm_work	MohammadAG: that sounds like an Adult Social Network <_<	00:15
RST38h	lcuk: That too, but popular entertainment used to take care of that	00:15
javispedro	I thinks it's still all about ego.	00:15
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lcuk	RST38h, too many channels	00:15
lcuk	simplify	00:15
MohammadAG	rm_work, thanks for saying that, I imagined things I shouldn't have	00:15
rm_work	MohammadAG: welcome :P	00:16
RST38h	lcuk: No, this illogical desire to stick together, in formerly individualistic societies, should be explained differently =)	00:16
lcuk	RST38h, my sister saw baby pictures on the internet before I had a chance to phone her and tell her baby was here	00:16
RST38h	lcuk: is it a good thing?	00:17
lcuk	i think so!	00:17
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MohammadAG	OMG the Atrix was unlocked	00:17
RST38h	lcuk: how many other people will see those pictures? how many of these people you do not know very well?	00:17
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MohammadAG	RST38h, why does that matter?	00:17
lcuk	RST38h, idk	00:18
RST38h	Mohammad: 'cause some of these people may well be screwed up pretty badly?	00:18
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rm_work	because maybe some of them now have an insatiable desire to COOK AND EAT lcuk's baby!?	00:19
DocScrutinizer	still doesn't matter until you google for lcuk 's addr	00:19
rm_work	probably at least one of them <_< the internet is a big and scary place	00:19
lcuk	thanks \o	00:19
MohammadAG	RST38h, why would you have screwed up people on facebook?	00:19
RST38h	rm_work: or, to stray away from the standard pedophilia-related discourse, report lcuk to the feds for spreading child pornograpy	00:19
rm_work	lolwut	00:20
rm_work	since when have baby pictures been considered CP? >_>	00:20
RST38h	Mohammad: Got 'em everywhere, why not Facebook?	00:20
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RST38h	rm_work: ah, anything can be considered CP nowadays,published for whatever reason	00:20
DocScrutinizer	rm_work: since that's USA	00:21
rm_work	>_	00:21
rm_work	<_<	00:21
RST38h	rm_work: freaking anime is now being considered CP, as well as stupid highschoolers exposing themselves to each other over MMS	00:21
DocScrutinizer	rm_work: ...where 10 year old boys get a prison sentence for sexual harassment becuase they kissed a classmate	00:22
RST38h	Doc: No, just expulsion from school afaik	00:22
rm_work	DocScrutinizer: lolwut >_>	00:22
rm_work	RST38h: lolwut <_<	00:22
RST38h	Doc: Same for bringing in a toy pistol	00:22
rm_work	RST38h: though some anime is a bit sketchy when it comes to age... but in Japan the legal age is 13 I think (nationally, though higher depending on prefecture)	00:23
RST38h	rm_work: Other scenario: some creative troll steals lcuk's identity and calls SWAT team to his address	00:23
rm_work	lol	00:23
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rm_work	yeah but that can happen in a lot of ways that are entirely unrelated to facebook	00:23
rm_work	i was thinking particularly in relation to the posting of baby pics	00:24
RST38h	rm_work: Oh, in Japan it is even funnier than that, with male-on-malenot being considered pornography (hence yaoi)	00:24
rm_work	lol	00:24
RST38h	rm_work: Of course it can	00:24
RST38h	rm_work: But the more you expose your identity on the net, the more risk you are taking	00:24
rm_work	yes	00:24
rm_work	that's true IRL too	00:24
RST38h	rm_work: Which makes me sigh every time I hear another rosy news about Facebook et al	00:24
rm_work	the more information you give someone IRL, the easier it would be for them to social engineer their way into things	00:24
rm_work	etc	00:24
RST38h	rm_work: IRL there is a physical limit on how many people know about you :)	00:25
rm_work	culminating in, you hand someone your passport and SSN card	00:25
rm_work	and then they photocopy it	00:25
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: you bet me to it	00:25
rm_work	and mail it around	00:25
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rm_work	yeah, it's a scale issue, i'll admit	00:25
RST38h	rm_work: In meatspace, there are physical limits on how widely you can normally expose yourself	00:25
rm_work	but it's not a NEW problem	00:25
RST38h	rm_work: correct	00:26
rm_work	that's all i'm saying	00:26
rm_work	if you're dumb IRL, you'll be dumb online too	00:26
rm_work	with your identity	00:26
RST38h	rm_work: just aggravated by the spread of soc networks and the latest social shifts	00:26
DocScrutinizer	most people massively underestimate: size of internet. Speed of internet	00:26
rm_work	it's just people for some reason don't even stop to think	00:26
DocScrutinizer	longevity of info in internet	00:26
rm_work	"would i hand this to a stranger on a street corner"	00:26
rm_work	if you wouldn't, you shouldn't put it online >_>	00:26
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RST38h	rm_work: case in point: latest deanonymization of the lulzsec members	00:27
rm_work	actually, i'm finding the whole drama around the Youtube Nyancat video to be quite educational	00:27
RST38h	rm_work: (yes, liars, virgins, pervs, and best of all, perfectly willing to rat each other to the FBI :))	00:28
BCMM	there is drama around nyan cat?	00:28
rm_work	this guy is getting death threats because someone pretended to be him and filed a takedown to youtube	00:28
RST38h	what video?	00:28
alterego	what yt video?	00:28
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rm_work	it's back up finally, it appears	00:29
rm_work	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4	00:29
rm_work	but	00:29
rm_work	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4	00:29
rm_work	err	00:29
rm_work	http://www.prguitarman.com/index.php?id=369	00:29
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rm_work	but, apparently you can just file a takedown notice with whatever name you want on any video you want, and youtube will take down the video and post the name there as the reason	00:31
rm_work	and that generates some SERIOUS bad press if it's a popular video	00:31
BCMM	rm_work: it's not youtube's fault, really	00:31
BCMM	it's the damn DMCA	00:32
rm_work	yeah	00:32
DocScrutinizer	WTF! is that a japanese ringtone or what?	00:32
BCMM	if they say "get lost, troll", and they're wrong, they're liable to a stupid extent	00:32
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rm_work	that's fairly true, though there's something to be said for zero research	00:32
RST38h	Looks like some 8bit shit	00:32
rm_work	it is	00:32
rm_work	some meme	00:32
rm_work	anyway, gotta run to a meeting	00:32
BCMM	and if they just remove stuff for no good reason, then meh	00:32
* rm_work runs to a meeting		00:32
DocScrutinizer	http://r33b.net	00:32
* RST38h asleep		00:32
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BCMM	and there's no real consequence for putting in fraudelent takedown requests	00:33
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: it was a japanese song, and an animated GIF. somebody decided they go well together.	00:34
BCMM	it doesn't make a great deal of sense, but it is weirdly mezmerising	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	I watched it to the end, to make sure there's no big easteregg in it at any point in time	00:35
DocScrutinizer	still don't feel as good as I did 10 min ago :-P	00:35
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BCMM	and not because it's oddly compelling or anything.	00:40
DocScrutinizer	I should bookmark this in case I ever need arguments why internet should go down	00:40
BCMM	you may prefer http://nyan.cat/	00:40
BCMM	non-stop. also, easter eggs for listening for long enough; if it's going to make you feel better	00:41
DocScrutinizer	it's not only the vid clip, it's the comments coming in in x/second rate, and the hitcounter >20E6	00:41
BCMM	i wouldn't worry about the hitcount; the majority probably weren't voluntary	00:42
javispedro	anyone knows a good and portable svg rasterizer? Seems that all of them suck	00:42
DocScrutinizer	hmm	00:42
BCMM	javispedro: firefox (/ducks)	00:43
DocScrutinizer	is there any except the gimp one anyway?	00:43
BCMM	(in my defence, you didn't say "lightweight")	00:43
javispedro	BCMM: have to agree, the best quality one I've found. sadly, I cannot rip it (I said portable =) )	00:43
DocScrutinizer	ooh	00:43
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javispedro	oh	00:44
javispedro	"mozilla is using cairo"	00:44
BCMM	javispedro: any idea what ksvg uses as a backend?	00:44
javispedro	why I didn't thought about that	00:44
BCMM	oh, cool	00:44
DocScrutinizer	thought you look for a $anypic->svg converter	00:45
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: that's computer sciency hard.	00:45
BCMM	that's the opposite of a rasteriser	00:45
DocScrutinizer	yeah	00:45
DocScrutinizer	noticed that	00:45
javispedro	I tried gnome's rsvg = sucks. Imagemagick = sucks.	00:45
javispedro	apache batik = Java (GiBs only to rasterize a svg???)	00:45
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DocScrutinizer	seems there must be a reason svg isn't exactly popular	00:46
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BCMM	imho, imagemagick is great for being pretty comprehensive in format support; but sucks quite often	00:47
javispedro	I also think qt includes one svg rasterizer	00:47
javispedro	dunno which one, and where.	00:47
MohammadAG	QtSvg, deprecated soon	00:47
javispedro	because it sucks too?	00:47
MohammadAG	that's what I gathered yes	00:47
MohammadAG	they prefer the one in QWebKit	00:47
javispedro	hm.	00:48
javispedro	I could rip that one..	00:48
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DocScrutinizer	why rip anything?	00:48
BCMM	i mean, it's better than your application not being able to open, say, PDFs, but it will literally spawn a ghostscript process, with potentially poor default options, to do the work	00:48
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: headless machine	00:48
DocScrutinizer	mhm	00:48
javispedro	also, add AntiGrain Geometry to the list, going to try it now	00:49
alterego	Oh, I think the N9 has flash	00:49
Jaffa	javispedro: Did you find out how to launch applauncherd?	00:49
alterego	MohammadAG: do you still have access?	00:49
MohammadAG	alterego,, Dual LED too	00:50
javispedro	Jaffa: didn't had time to really play with it	00:50
alterego	No, Adobe Flash :P	00:50
MohammadAG	yes, I know what you meant :p	00:50
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alterego	http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2011/06/respect.html?showComment=1309244161165#c8807273851680035486	00:50
alterego	He says "Fash is supported in fennec"	00:50
alterego	I'm sure that is a typo ;)	00:50
javispedro	Jaffa: I know how to launch it thought. Just run "applauncherd" as user ;). But then a different error appears.	00:50
Jaffa	javispedro: BTW, we're using Apache Batik to render SVGs to PNGs in our (Java) web app; works very well :)	00:51
javispedro	heh, that's my problem.	00:51
kerio	alterego: futuristic android shell?	00:51
alterego	Heh	00:51
javispedro	Jaffa: I am surprised it's not a 100% solved problem by these days. Thought this would take a few minutes.	00:51
DocScrutinizer	alterego: somebody claimed you probably could throw in arbitrary OMAP flashlib	00:51
Jaffa	javispedro: Yeah; I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was since Batik was already on our classpath; but it looked nightmareish until I found that.	00:52
alterego	DocScrutinizer: only if it's hard fp ..	00:52
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	00:52
MohammadAG	alterego, 39 minutes and I will	00:52
MohammadAG	want ssh access?	00:52
Jaffa	javispedro: Running applauncherd as 'developer' doesn't error.	00:52
alterego	MohammadAG: neah, I'm probably gonna be in bed by then, if not then sure	00:52
DocScrutinizer	still fail to wrap my head around that softfp/hardfp thing each time	00:52
alterego	See if you can find libflash though ;)	00:52
javispedro	Jaffa: run whoami. Make surprised face.	00:52
Jaffa	Oooh, it's logging stuff as I start Clock	00:53
alterego	DocScrutinizer: just floating point being passed in registers rather than on the heap mostly.	00:53
DocScrutinizer	and if you'd do the fp math in a statically linked lib or even inline code or functon calls?	00:53
Jaffa	javispedro: WTF?!	00:53
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javispedro	Jaffa: ask Madde guys :D	00:55
DocScrutinizer	I'm not sure the 'leaked' flashplayer plugin from TI(?) was linked against any particular shared lib	00:55
alterego	DocScrutinizer: I don't know :P	00:55
alterego	But any function calls involving fp will break	00:56
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alterego	And any non hardfp binary just wont run, or get linked because the headers are all wrong.	00:56
javispedro	it's not very hard to wrap.	00:56
DocScrutinizer	only if they leave your namespace defined and available at build time	00:56
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DocScrutinizer	and I'm not sure about a plugin really is a binary in the sense of header matching etc	00:57
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: it's ELF	00:58
alterego	That stuff is sensitive :P	00:58
DocScrutinizer	hmm, k	00:58
javispedro	as I was saying, it's not hard to wrap.	00:58
DocScrutinizer	would it need any *fp header if the binary does no fp math at all?	00:58
javispedro	yep	00:59
DocScrutinizer	meh	00:59
DocScrutinizer	incredible shit	00:59
javispedro	well, you know	00:59
javispedro	there's this header in ELF files that specifies the ABI	00:59
javispedro	they're not going to do three thousand special cases	00:59
javispedro	specially when this is performance sensitive stuff.	00:59
javispedro	and FP in ARM has traditionally been awfully messy.	01:00
DocScrutinizer	I'd expect a list of requirements, and a matcher algo in loader	01:00
alterego	It would be feasible to write a program that can translate softfloat to hardfloat	01:00
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javispedro	a matcher!! would you like some heuristic algorithms with that?	01:00
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javispedro	;P	01:01
alterego	javispedro: sure, but it's messy because of all the different kinds of FPUs they've used over the years	01:01
DocScrutinizer	not a thisishardfparma8thumb57littleendiannowgetthissucker header that has to match	01:01
alterego	SoC integration can do this to a platform :)	01:01
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alterego	Anyway, so it looks like we my actually have flash,	01:02
alterego	Unless fash is something else.	01:02
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: nah, more like some regex	01:02
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javispedro	alterego: who is the confident for that assertion?	01:02
alterego	konttori	01:02
alterego	http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2011/06/respect.html?showComment=1309244161165#c8807273851680035486	01:03
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javispedro	uuuuuuuuh	01:03
javispedro	in fennec but not in default browser?	01:03
DocScrutinizer	lol	01:03
alterego	javispedro: he has a good point, about separating mobile browsing experience from desktop browsing experience.	01:04
javispedro	that means they won't even bother to even talk to Adobe when sth happens.	01:04
javispedro	alterego: no wonder, webkit is shitty, browsing experience is going to take a hit on the n9.	01:04
alterego	We'll see	01:04
javispedro	btw.	01:04
javispedro	~seen timeless	01:04
alterego	It has tap to zoom so ...	01:04
Jaffa	alterego: Could be Gnash or something in Fennec	01:04
infobot	timeless <ad21c479@firefox/developer/timeless> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13d 19h 24m 12s ago, saying: 'luke-jr: ipv6 irc?'.	01:04
Jaffa	alterego: Or just a reuse of the Flash 9 plugin from the N900?	01:04
alterego	Jaffa: possible, yes.	01:04
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alterego	Jaffa: no, hence the soft float vs hardfp argument	01:05
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	01:05
* DocScrutinizer wonders		01:05
DocScrutinizer	~seen timeles*	01:05
infobot	i haven't seen 'timeles*', DocScrutinizer	01:05
DocScrutinizer	meh	01:05
DocScrutinizer	infobot: learn!	01:05
javispedro	he hasn't said a word since we (well, since most of us) found out about webkit in n9	01:05
DocScrutinizer	is he still a nokian anyway?	01:06
Jaffa	javispedro: Possibly worrying over whether he jumped from frying pan into the fire :-(	01:06
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: No, he's moved to Canada to work at another mobile company	01:06
DocScrutinizer	thought as much	01:06
javispedro	ah, didn't know.	01:07
alterego	anyway g'night	01:09
javispedro	gnite alterego!	01:09
Jaffa	Where's the flash plaer.so on the N900?	01:10
MohammadAG	alterego, stay up for 22 minutes!!! :P	01:10
MohammadAG	javispedro, DocScrutinizer he's at RIM now	01:10
DocScrutinizer	yeah	01:11
javispedro	Jaffa: /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so	01:11
MohammadAG	he already said that he won't be here after the conference :/	01:11
javispedro	ah well :(	01:11
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: what's in 22min?	01:11
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javispedro	man, I should really have gone to the SF conf. It was probably the last...	01:12
MohammadAG	RDA again	01:12
DocScrutinizer	oh	01:12
DocScrutinizer	well	01:12
DocScrutinizer	there are still 18k lines to scrutinize	01:12
MohammadAG	well you're Doc Scrutinizer :p	01:13
DocScrutinizer	that's why	01:13
DocScrutinizer	Doc! scrutinizer - not Log scrutinizer	01:13
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Jaffa	javispedro: alterego: The following is empty in the qemu image: /usr/lib $ find . -name 'flash'	01:14
javispedro	MohammadAG will be able to check in RDA	01:14
javispedro	hm	01:14
DocScrutinizer	fenec, is that a MP pkg?	01:15
javispedro	http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G92Ugk7c	01:15
javispedro	no flash package in list provided by MohammadAG	01:15
MohammadAG	ping me in 17 minutes	01:15
DocScrutinizer	yawn	01:15
MohammadAG	I wonder what dpkg -r aegis* does	01:16
DocScrutinizer	apt-get install fenec	01:16
DocScrutinizer	lol	01:16
DocScrutinizer	eat your brain I bet	01:16
javispedro	it selfdestructs the device	01:17
javispedro	then, it turns on the camera, and uses pictures of you to kickstart the google facebook network	01:17
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DocScrutinizer	not on RDA ;-)	01:18
MohammadAG	it fires up my webcam then	01:19
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: ah, that's why there are so many Nokians on this googlefacebook thing	01:19
DocScrutinizer	maybe the selfdestruct suffices to blow away trollop and his office?	01:19
javispedro	talkinga bout elop, I bet you have seen his platforming game?	01:20
javispedro	http://nokiagadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Elopgame.jpg	01:20
javispedro	bestseller imho, hope to see it soon for n9.	01:20
DocScrutinizer	GOLD	01:21
javispedro	hmpf, the agg svg rasterizer is a joke.	01:26
Jaffa	In the platform SDK, what's the command to start the UI?	01:26
javispedro	(a pity, cause I like agg)	01:26
javispedro	Jaffa: meego-sb-session start	01:26
Jaffa	javispedro: ta	01:27
DocScrutinizer	>> It was hard, to make this pass the OVI QA! I removed alot, to make Nokia happy... So there is no M$ text on this game, there is no iPhone level (for stupid people) and I removed all company names. But now it is there!	01:27
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DocScrutinizer	rotfl	01:28
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DocScrutinizer	>> Version 1.0.0 first and last version... It failed 10 times on OVI QA, before Nokia accepted it! It is a stupid game, and will remain so :P	01:30
javispedro	average ;)	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	I will buy it, just to support this dude	01:31
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DocScrutinizer	also if this is a winner, Ovi QA looks rather stupid	01:32
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Jaffa	Can sshd run inside scratchbox?	01:34
javispedro	why??	01:35
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DocScrutinizer	why not??	01:36
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javispedro	you can open as many sbox sessions as you want, you can run X11 apps just by setting DISPLAY,..	01:37
javispedro	sshd inside means you have to build it against "inside" headers and libraries	01:37
javispedro	the only use I see is debugging sshd itself.	01:37
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javispedro	hm.. mozilla uses cairo for svgs outright, but it uses cairo only for actual rasterization, not parsing or anything else	01:43
MohammadAG	so, who wants ssh?	01:43
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Kilroo	I think I have nearly entirely exhausted my patience.	01:43
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MohammadAG	grr	01:51
MohammadAG	Imma murder the one who deleted the saved network	01:51
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javispedro	you sure they do not reboot the device from time to time?	01:52
MohammadAG	no	01:53
MohammadAG	they just don't reboot them that often	01:54
MohammadAG	they do when there's a software update, or when one goes down	01:54
MohammadAG	I bricked a 5800 once, it came back in 2 days	01:54
MohammadAG	or was it an N97 mini	01:54
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MohammadAG	fucking piece of crap	01:56
MohammadAG	someone deleted the RDA6 connection	01:56
MohammadAG	there's no internet on the device	01:56
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javispedro	MohammadAG: clearly, someone didn't want you to continue your world domination plans	01:58
MohammadAG	and the device is offline	01:59
MohammadAG	:/	01:59
MohammadAG	nvm it's back up	01:59
* Kilroo tries to decide whether it's worth a seventh attempt to share the n900 tmobile ipv6 beta connection with another device		02:00
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Jaffa	Someone said there was a replacement for run-standalone.sh...?	02:06
Jaffa	Possibly javispedro	02:07
javispedro	meego-run	02:07
Jaffa	`ys	02:07
Jaffa	Ta	02:07
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rm_you	back	02:26
javispedro	ok, so my only plan B is to build something using QtSvg and statically linked qt.	02:27
javispedro	see, qt is useful for something.	02:27
MohammadAG	no flash* in /usr/lib Jaffa / javispedro q	02:31
Kilroo	Hm. My problem seems to be related to the fact that interface bnep0 does not exist.	02:32
Kilroo	I wonder why it doesn't.	02:32
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ShadowJK	are you trying to share it over bluetooth? (bnep)	02:50
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Kilroo	Yes.	02:56
Kilroo	wifi would theoretically be an option. USB is not, as I got bitten by the archos dying usb port.	02:56
Kilroo	I think either I have two problems, or these are both symptoms of the same problem, but nothing I do on the n900 seems to result in the existence of a bnep0 device, and nothing I do on the archos seems to result in its marking the tethering connection as PAN instead of DUN.	02:57
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* SpeedEvil realises the deadline is over.		03:49
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: yo	03:49
SpeedEvil	So - no stress now - just waiting	03:50
DocScrutinizer	:shrug:	03:50
* DocScrutinizer counts green flies on the wall - 1.. 2.. 3.. 4... 5..		03:51
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MohammadAG	so	03:54
MohammadAG	what's the maximum value led_current can take?	03:54
MohammadAG	for the RGB leds	03:55
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ShadowJK	50	03:57
DocScrutinizer	define "can"	03:57
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, then why is it set to 2?	03:58
DocScrutinizer	may? usually does?	03:58
MohammadAG	Are you sure it's 500?	03:58
MohammadAG	err, 50	03:58
SpeedEvil	I wouldn't exceed the maximum that mce does by much	03:58
SpeedEvil	For short pulses - 50% more may be OK	03:59
DocScrutinizer	hmm, 50 sounds quite sane for a maximum, based on "unit=100uA" and the type of component	03:59
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MohammadAG	remember, RGB led, not kb led	04:00
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MohammadAG	RGB runs at 2 by default	04:00
DocScrutinizer	as we don't know the datasheet or even name of the RGB LED	04:00
MohammadAG	I just remember while porting Ubuntu, it was brighter	04:00
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: yes, as it's supposed to be "always on" for breathing light	04:01
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DocScrutinizer	so they lowered the current considerably	04:01
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DocScrutinizer	My EE guts say such type of component should be fine with 5mA	04:02
MohammadAG	well, 5 seems right, it didn't implode	04:02
DocScrutinizer	might even be fine with 50mA, or it burns out in no time - I'll not gonna test itXP	04:03
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: NB 5 means 0.5mA	04:03
DocScrutinizer	which for sure is no max current for an LED of any type I've ever seen	04:04
SpeedEvil	I've seen 5mA in some of the tinier LEDs	04:05
DocScrutinizer	it's just a fine setting for a power-modest standby indicator	04:05
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: [2011-06-29 03:02:15] <DocScrutinizer> My EE guts say such type of component should be fine with 5mA	04:05
SpeedEvil	yeah	04:06
DocScrutinizer	so ShadowJK 's 50 were just to the point	04:07
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, oh, so 50 in led_current means 5mA, interesting	04:12
DocScrutinizer	iirc yes	04:13
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ShadowJK	50mA (500) sounds a bit high	04:15
DocScrutinizer	indeed	04:15
DocScrutinizer	nobody suggested that	04:15
DocScrutinizer	and iirc it doesn't even work, as that's a uint8	04:15
MohammadAG	meh, abill_uk would suggest it	04:16
ShadowJK	don't we run the "flashlight" at 50? :)	04:16
MohammadAG	the flashlight is 5mA?	04:16
DocScrutinizer	flashlight is a completely different driver, no?	04:16
DocScrutinizer	with unrelated semantics of the values you pass to it	04:17
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ShadowJK	I vaguely remember someone saying 50mA would be good for flashlight	04:17
DocScrutinizer	the 0.1mA units stem from lp5521/3 driver	04:17
SpeedEvil	50mA is the nominal flashlight current	04:18
SpeedEvil	IIRC	04:18
MohammadAG	anyway, enough LED burning for me	04:18
MohammadAG	night	04:18
DocScrutinizer	those 50mA are from the driver source for the flashlight driver driver	04:18
SpeedEvil	These are very different LEDs though	04:18
SpeedEvil	Night!	04:18
* SpeedEvil hopes for nice email to MohammadAG in the morning.		04:18
FIQ\|n900	the n900fly application seems as an interesting way to hurt your device	04:18
FIQ\|n900	according to its' description	04:19
SpeedEvil	Well - yes.	04:19
* FIQ\|n900 don't get it		04:19
FIQ\|n900	why would anyone do that?	04:19
SpeedEvil	It may not actually be a serious app.	04:19
DocScrutinizer	it's supposed to be in your pocket while flying ;-D	04:19
FIQ\|n900	of course it isn't	04:20
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FIQ\|n900	but has it got any downloads, and has it actually been used? :p	04:20
DocScrutinizer	isn't there even a public highscore list?	04:20
FIQ\|n900	wat	04:21
FIQ\|n900	whatever	04:21
DocScrutinizer	lol	04:21
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biston	hey guys, there are 4 packages for nano on the maemo repos, nano nano-tiny nano-2.0.7 nano-opt. which is the best?	04:26
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jonwil	hmmm, I wonder if anyone actually cares about my hald-addon-bme work...	04:49
jonwil	or what else I could work on reverse engineering or making copies of...	04:50
jonwil	I mean clones of	04:50
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Ken-Young	I am having trouble with the Maemo 5 autobuilder. I have a new dependency in a package of mine - I now need hildon-fm-2. If I put that dependency in my configure.ac file, everything works. I can configure and build. I put hildon-fm-2 in my control file too. But the autobuilder dies when it does not find that dependency. DOes anyone know what I must put in my control file to get hildon-fm-2 ?	05:01
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Sc0rpius	well	05:03
Sc0rpius	where do you get that hildon-fm-2?	05:03
Sc0rpius	because it's not in my repositories	05:03
Sc0rpius	and maybe autobuilder can't find it either?	05:03
Ken-Young	Sc0rpius, Well it appears to exist in scratchbox.	05:03
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > dpkg -l \| grep hildon-fm-2	05:04
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >	05:04
Sc0rpius	not in mine	05:04
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > apt-cache search hildon-fm-2	05:04
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >	05:04
Ken-Young	Sc0rpius, If I put it in the configure.ac, do autoconf and automake, then the configure script looks for that package, and finds it.	05:04
Sc0rpius	maybe it's just ARMEL lemme see	05:04
Ken-Young	libhildonfm2 seems to be present.	05:05
Ken-Young	But if I specify hildonfm2, rather than hildon-fm-2, in the configure.ac file, then the configure script fails to resolve that dependency.	05:06
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > apt-cache search hildon-fm-2	05:07
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >	05:07
Sc0rpius	err	05:07
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > ls /usr/lib/libhildonfm*	05:07
Sc0rpius	/usr/lib/libhildonfm.so /usr/lib/libhildonfm.so.2 /usr/lib/libhildonfm.so.2.0.0	05:07
Sc0rpius	are we talking about Maemo 5 here?	05:07
Ken-Young	Yup	05:07
Sc0rpius	well I don't have those.	05:07
Sc0rpius	I mean I have hildon-fm	05:07
Sc0rpius	but not hildon-fm-2	05:07
Ken-Young	I can build for ARM, and the program runs correctly on my N900, so the package is there somewhere.	05:08
Ken-Young	Do you have hildonfm2 ?	05:08
Sc0rpius	I have those I showed	05:08
Ken-Young	Oh, yes, I should have seen that.	05:08
Sc0rpius	and in my hone is the same	05:09
Sc0rpius	I have libhildonfm.so.2 but no libhildonfm2.so.xx	05:09
Sc0rpius	I wonder where you got that, and I think autobuilder wonders it too	05:10
Sc0rpius	what about specifying hildon-fm instead of hildon-fm-2 ?	05:10
Ken-Young	Very strange. I don't see it in my /usr/lib either. But if I don't put it in configure.ac, I get link errors, and if I do put it in that file, everything works smoothly building in my environmnet, for but ARM and x86, but the autobuilder dies.	05:11
Ken-Young	OK, I'll try hildon-fm. That's a good idea.	05:11
Sc0rpius	I have this though:	05:12
Sc0rpius	ii libhildonfm2 2.28.21+0m5 Hildon file management libraries.	05:13
Sc0rpius	and the builder will need that and:	05:13
Sc0rpius	ii libhildonfm2-dev 2.28.21+0m5 Development files for libhildonfm2.	05:13
Sc0rpius	in summary	05:14
Sc0rpius	Build-Depends should have libhildonfm2-devç	05:14
Sc0rpius	and	05:14
Sc0rpius	Depends should have libhildonfm2	05:14
Ken-Young	Sadly, neither putting in hildon-fm nor hildon-fm works. I can't even build locally with those dependencies.	05:14
Sc0rpius	maybe Build-Depends should have both actually.	05:14
Sc0rpius	it's called "libhildonfm2"	05:15
Ken-Young	I think I've tried that, but I'll try it again.	05:15
Sc0rpius	Build-Depends: should have libhildonfm2-dev and libhildonfm2 and Depends: should have libhildonfm2 only	05:15
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Ken-Young	No combination of "lib" "hildon" "fm", "2" and "dev" seems to work, with or without dashes, except hildon-fm-2, which works locally, but not with the builder.	05:17
Sc0rpius	well my package is called libhildonfm2	05:18
Sc0rpius	maybe you're using a different implementation?	05:18
Ken-Young	Well, the configure.ac file has lines like	05:19
Ken-Young	PKG_CHECK_MODULES(GTK, [gtk+-2.0])	05:19
Sc0rpius	hmm	05:19
Ken-Young	which work properly.	05:19
* jonwil has run out of things to work on :(		05:19
Sc0rpius	I was assuming you developed what you're trying to compile	05:19
Ken-Young	So I fingured I should not have a lib prefix.	05:19
Sc0rpius	are you trying to port something instead to Maemo?	05:19
Ken-Young	Sc0rpius, I did develope what I'm trying to compile. Completely from scratch.	05:20
Sc0rpius	oh	05:20
Sc0rpius	because it's really weird where you got that hildon-fm-2 package if any	05:20
Ken-Young	But my grasp of autotools is tenuous.	05:20
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/workspace/modest/debian] > dpkg -l \| grep hildon \| grep fm \| grep -v l10	05:21
Sc0rpius	ii libhildonfm2 2.28.21+0m5 Hildon file management libraries.	05:21
Sc0rpius	ii libhildonfm2-dev 2.28.21+0m5 Development files for libhildonfm2.	05:21
Sc0rpius	that's all I have that has hildon and fm	05:21
Ken-Young	I may have to try to find some other app which uses these file selection widgets, and try to get ahold of the autotools files for it.	05:22
Ken-Young	Maybe I should just switch to the gtk file selection widgets, and avoid this hassle.	05:22
Sc0rpius	now I see where you got that hildon-fm-2	05:22
Sc0rpius	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > pkg-config --libs hildon-fm-2	05:23
Sc0rpius	-pthread -lhildonfm -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgnomevfs-2 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgio-2.0 -lpangoft2-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -lcai	05:23
Sc0rpius	lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lgconf-2 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lgmodule-2.0 -ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lpthread -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0	05:23
Sc0rpius	what's the error from the autobuilder?	05:24
Sc0rpius	maybe you have to add something else and it's not hildon-fm-2	05:24
Ken-Young	checking for FM... configure: error: Package requirements (hildon-fm-2) were not met:	05:24
Ken-Young	No package 'hildon-fm-2' found	05:24
Ken-Young	But that same check on my local system works properly.	05:25
Ken-Young	I may need some magic in the debian control file.	05:25
Ken-Young	To get the autobuilder to load that up.	05:25
Ken-Young	I may need something on the control file's Build-Depends line.	05:27
Ken-Young	I'll try random permutations of lib, hildon, fm, 2 and dev on that line.	05:27
Sc0rpius	well	05:28
Sc0rpius	in Build-Depends	05:28
Sc0rpius	try libhildonfm2-dev and hildon-fm-2 after it	05:28
Sc0rpius	since hildon-fm-2.pc file (for pkg-config) is provided ONLY for libhildonfm2-dev and no other package	05:29
Sc0rpius	it works locally because you have libhildonfm2-dev installed in your scratchbox	05:29
Ken-Young	Do you mean put BOTH libhildonfm2-dev and hildon-fm-2 on the Build-Depends line of the control file?	05:29
Ken-Young	I agree the solution is to get the autobuilder to install something I already have installed lcally.	05:30
Sc0rpius	yes	05:30
Sc0rpius	both	05:30
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Ken-Young	OK, I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion!	05:30
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Ken-Young	Sc0rpius, Just putting libhildonfm2-dev in the Build-Depends line did the trick, without the hildon-fm-2.	05:37
Ken-Young	Thanks again very much for your help.	05:38
Sc0rpius	nice	05:38
Sc0rpius	you have to put libhildonfm2 in Depends:	05:38
Sc0rpius	just to be consistent since libhildonfm2 seems to be installed in all N900s	05:39
Ken-Young	Yeah, I definitely didin't have to load anything special on my N900 to get the program to work. I just scp'd the binary over, and it worked.	05:40
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jonwil	bah, there has to be SOMETHING I can do towards further enhancing the MAEMO ecosystem...	06:10
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SpeedEvil	Problem is the 'obvious' things all end up as hideous.	06:25
SpeedEvil	For example - rewriting the tangled ball of mce/bme/icd/dsme/...	06:25
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GeneralAntilles	Oh, Engadget	06:58
GeneralAntilles	You so silly. Politics is not your forte.	06:58
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bindi	gah	07:08
bindi	am i really missing something	07:08
bindi	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24905 how do I install this	07:08
bindi	i have advanced power	07:10
jonwil	Well there seems to be a fair bit of work being done on creating open-source clones of some of the closed-source control panels and widgets, so are there any more of those that would be worth cloning?	07:13
bindi	aha	07:14
bindi	I get an error when I run python /opt/maemo/usr/lib/advanced-power-monitor/apmdaemon.py	07:14
bindi	ImportError: no module named advpowcommon.util.loader	07:14
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user_	hello world	07:36
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bindi	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1041215#post1041215	07:51
bindi	if anyone knows :p	07:51
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RST38h	Well. Moo.	08:03
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/29/aluminum_celmet/ <-- interesting	09:12
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hiemanshu	so everyone can get RDA now :D	09:52
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cloudyLights	morning	09:54
cloudyLights	khertan!	09:55
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mece	mornin'	09:55
khertan	Morning !	09:56
hiemanshu	khertan: so with RDA, I tested the plain Qt apps on N950, they are reallly ugly	09:57
hiemanshu	khertan: I have one for the next one-ish hour if you want me to test anything on it	09:59
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Termana	good morning	10:05
khertan	hiemanshu, ouch ... It s a bad news	10:09
hiemanshu	khertan: but they work fine on SDK	10:09
khertan	by ugly just display result, or unusable ?	10:09
hiemanshu	display result	10:09
hiemanshu	lemme take screenshots	10:09
khertan	hiemanshu, like plastique theme ?	10:09
hiemanshu	yup	10:09
khertan	ok ... no no meegotouch-qt-theme installed	10:10
khertan	anyway... they ll remove it soon from the repository	10:10
khertan	as it not maintained	10:10
hiemanshu	khertan: http://imgur.com/a/da46U	10:10
khertan	so no choice than to use qml or another framework	10:10
hiemanshu	NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO :/	10:11
khertan	yep they fucked up Qt	10:11
hiemanshu	and they preach Qt	10:11
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khertan	Qt is not anymore	10:11
hiemanshu	and everyone knows QML is still very immature	10:11
khertan	hiemanshu, they didn't give release date for the n9	10:12
khertan	maybe they plan to release it september 2012	10:12
hiemanshu	hah	10:12
hiemanshu	well they said later this year right	10:12
khertan	For me this forced move to QML look like an other try to kill the plateform	10:13
hiemanshu	khertan: well either ways there has to be something	10:13
hiemanshu	khertan: do you have debs for your apps that i could try on this?	10:13
khertan	hiemanshu, not really ... as they aren't ported to harmattan yet	10:14
hiemanshu	khertan: ah	10:14
khertan	hiemanshu, some depandancies need to be ported before	10:14
hiemanshu	ah ok	10:14
* hiemanshu didn't need any extra deps		10:14
khertan	and for the moment i didn't know if i ll do it	10:15
khertan	hiemanshu, some depends on PyQt4 :)	10:15
khertan	yep code in python	10:15
khertan	:)	10:15
hiemanshu	yeah, it has python on it	10:16
hiemanshu	just no pyside or PyQt4	10:16
hiemanshu	khertan: http://i.imgur.com/2ZNaB.png	10:16
khertan	hiemanshu, pyside is available	10:17
khertan	not pyqt4	10:17
hiemanshu	khertan: for me the goal is simple, if I get an N950, I'll learn QML otherwise I'll work on maintaing meegotouch-qt-style	10:17
hiemanshu	khertan: up for it?	10:17
khertan	hiemanshu, pyside is available on the harmattan sdk repository	10:18
khertan	and ill be available in ovi store repository	10:18
khertan	same for me ... if i got an n950 i ll use QML ... else ... no ...	10:18
khertan	hiemanshu, mainly because qml doesn't work well on n900	10:19
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hiemanshu	khertan: yup	10:19
hiemanshu	proper qml support was added in .7.2	10:19
khertan	4.7.3	10:19
khertan	there is many bug in 7.2	10:19
khertan	hiemanshu, and i ll probably try to create my own framework based on pygame ...	10:20
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hiemanshu	hah ok	10:20
khertan	pygame is based on sdl	10:20
hiemanshu	khertan: well, I am going to wait and see what happens about the N950, or I'll work on imporving meegotouch-qt-style	10:20
khertan	available on maemo, WebOS, and Android	10:20
khertan	hiemanshu, i ll probably try to improve meegotouch-qt-style ... but there is many things to fix	10:21
khertan	(if i get an n950)	10:21
khertan	as currently what i'm trying to do isn't possible in QML	10:21
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hiemanshu	well I have to define a mouse area, define a layout and what not to get a simple push button :/	10:22
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khertan	hiemanshu, try to do syntax hilighting ... or extending qml to integrate qtextedit ... it s a real headache ... how can they claim it s easier	10:27
khertan	it s not	10:27
hiemanshu	khertan: there seems to a Widget Gallery, boosted Widget gallery, QML components gallery	10:27
hiemanshu	be a*	10:27
khertan	hiemanshu, yep ... it s just improve look and feel ... but didn't provide better text managment	10:28
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hiemanshu	khertan: well I am assuming atleast one of them is plain Qt	10:28
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khertan	?	10:29
hiemanshu	khertan: from all the widget gallerys	10:30
khertan	did you have a link ?	10:30
arvut	I am a gagamoth and I'm tired as effin hełł	10:30
hiemanshu	khertan: ok there is PySide on the device, just no PyQt4	10:32
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khertan	hiemanshu, yep ... but having pyside officially is a good thing	10:34
khertan	except that only QtCore and QtDeclarative can be really used :(	10:34
hiemanshu	khertan: sure but whats the use if they are ugly like windows 95	10:35
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khertan	hiemanshu, you can use qml with pyside and python	10:36
hiemanshu	khertan: yes, the problem here is qml, not pyside or python	10:36
hiemanshu	khertan: I can code both in python and C++	10:36
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khertan	hiemanshu, i agree qml is the problem	10:38
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khertan	hiemanshu, Qt was a good framework :( RIP	10:39
hiemanshu	khertan: there are a lot of plain qt apps meant for touch screen that could be ported over easily if something was possible	10:39
hiemanshu	khertan: Qt is a good framework if you -QML	10:39
khertan	hiemanshu, they will not remove QML, but they will not maintain QWidget	10:40
khertan	so RIP	10:40
hiemanshu	khertan: well yes :/	10:40
khertan	hiemanshu, seems that JS will win the language war	10:41
hiemanshu	khertan: if it does, I'll stop programming and learn to do something else	10:41
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khertan	hiemanshu, :)	10:45
hiemanshu	maybe drive a truck!	10:45
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bindi	would be cool to have xterm as a widget	10:46
bindi	or a whole desktop is an actual terminal	10:46
bindi	tried googling but doesnt exist :<	10:46
hiemanshu	bindi: make one? :P	10:46
bindi	not with my skills	10:46
bindi	if it takes php, sure!	10:46
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khertan	lol	10:47
wazd	hi all	10:48
khertan	hiemanshu, you see dev gone crazy ... php ... js ... :)	10:48
bindi	:(	10:48
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hiemanshu	khertan: a FEA, the add account button in khweeteur should be on the top, people like me are lazy to scroll down	10:49
khertan	hiemanshu, indeed :)	10:50
hiemanshu	khertan: ok, so khweeteur crashed a few times	10:51
hiemanshu	:/	10:51
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khertan	hiemanshu, on maemo ?	10:51
hiemanshu	yup	10:51
khertan	uh ... which pyside version did you have ?	10:52
khertan	i ve some user having segfault on qtcore that i didn't understand	10:52
hiemanshu	khertan: the one it installed on its own	10:53
khertan	which happen while bytecompiling the python source file	10:53
hiemanshu	ok crashed again	10:53
hiemanshu	random crashes :/	10:53
khertan	hiemanshu, could you launch it from xterm please ?	10:53
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hiemanshu	khertan: its making a new bug, bug 848	10:54
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/848 libgtk2.0-bin doesn't upgrade if an old version of libXfixes is present	10:54
khertan	lol poorbot	10:57
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khertan	no tb_back ... strange	10:58
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khertan	hiemanshu, thx	11:03
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hiemanshu	khertan: my pleasure, /me needed an app on maemo	11:04
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hiemanshu	khertan: I like the way you show the actual message in small when there is a reply to it	11:05
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hiemanshu	khertan: even the N8 works fine, but N9 wont :/	11:17
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khertan	hiemanshu, yep this is something many client do not do ... and i like it this way ... so you can understand talk more easily	11:19
khertan	hiemanshu, what work fine on the n8 ?	11:19
hiemanshu	khertan: yup	11:19
hiemanshu	khertan: plain Qt	11:19
khertan	hiemanshu, hum ... just avoid some qdialog :)	11:20
hiemanshu	yeah, no QDialog :D	11:20
* khertan have just see how to do a filedialog in qml ... you need to create a qml extension in c++		11:20
khertan	haha	11:20
khertan	qml #fail again	11:21
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hiemanshu	hah	11:21
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hiemanshu	just QFileDialog and done :D	11:21
hiemanshu	+use	11:21
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MohammadAG	hiemanshu, QDialogs work on the N8	11:34
MohammadAG	just use showMaximized()	11:34
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: well yes, but I dont need them right now	11:35
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: btw did you get sociality to work?	11:35
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, on the N950? Nope, Operation Not Permtted	11:36
MohammadAG	<3 Aegis	11:36
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: ah, I got my app running though	11:36
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: http://imgur.com/a/da46U	11:36
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hiemanshu	bad bad theming :/	11:36
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MohammadAG	hiemanshu, that's not themed	11:37
MohammadAG	Harmattan has plain Qt themed	11:38
hiemanshu	right, but sbox showed it themed	11:38
Khertan	hiemanshu, did you try to launch it with -style meegotouch	11:38
hiemanshu	Khertan: I had QApplication::setStyle	11:38
MohammadAG	the N950 should show it themed too	11:39
MohammadAG	they don't matter	11:39
Khertan	MohammadAG, in bug report they said they will remove it from repository	11:39
MohammadAG	if you have the style installed it defaults to it	11:39
* MohammadAG chokes		11:39
MohammadAG	Khertan, what?!	11:39
hiemanshu	I am not going to learn QML if they dont give me a N950, instead I'll work on maintaing meegotouch-qt-style	11:40
Khertan	MohammadAG, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20035#c1	11:42
povbot	Bug 20035: was not found.	11:42
Khertan	https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17034	11:42
povbot	Bug 17034: was not found.	11:42
MohammadAG	you're mixing MeeGo and Harmattan Khertan	11:42
jonwil	bah, totally out of ideas of things to work on :(	11:42
Khertan	MohammadAG, ;) Harmattan isn't a mix ?	11:42
MohammadAG	point is, if they remove it from MeeGo, that doesn't mean it'll be gone on Harmattan	11:43
MohammadAG	also Harmattan's theme looks a lot better	11:43
cloudyLights	<jonwil> hi	11:44
Khertan	point is that we have only one handset device that didn't use a true meego base, and we have already begin fragmentation	11:44
cloudyLights	any news regarding lib location?	11:44
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Khertan	MohammadAG, i hope, as my try from the harmattan sb sdk was a huge failure	11:45
Khertan	MohammadAG, bugged everywhere	11:45
Khertan	MohammadAG, with many segfault	11:45
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hiemanshu	jonwil: write a google reader client :D	11:47
MohammadAG	Khertan, it's a beta SDK :p	11:48
Venemo	if I install the Harmattan SDK on top of my already existing Fremantle and Diablo SDK, will it keep the Fremantle/Diablo targets?	11:48
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hiemanshu	Venemo: yes	11:48
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MohammadAG	Venemo, manually, yes	11:48
MohammadAG	not sure about the script	11:48
jonwil	Not interested in a Google Reader client :P	11:48
Venemo	I'm using the installer .py script	11:48
hiemanshu	Venemo: even the script will	11:48
hiemanshu	I ahve it running fine	11:49
Khertan	MohammadAG, yep just hope, as many nokia qt guy say that Qt Plain will not work	11:49
Venemo	hiemanshu, on F15 as well, I assume?	11:49
cloudyLights	<jonwil> gather cellular info to log file	11:49
hiemanshu	Venemo: yup	11:49
RST38h	Hello, gentlemen	11:49
MohammadAG	look for a pastebin.com link that has my name before it and was pasted by javispedro in logs	11:49
RST38h	Anything new and exciting?	11:49
Venemo	hiemanshu, okay, then I'm not worrying :)	11:49
cloudyLights	so when a certain tower appears I am alerted	11:49
Venemo	Khertan, what do you mean, Qt Plain will not work?	11:49
hiemanshu	Venemo: for once the sdk .py didn't have to fixed or edited :D	11:49
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Khertan	Venemo, we don't know yet	11:49
Venemo	hiemanshu :)	11:50
hiemanshu	Venemo: well so far its not themed	11:50
Venemo	not themed?	11:50
Venemo	wtf?	11:50
Venemo	but there _is_ a Qt Style for Harmattan	11:50
hiemanshu	Venemo: http://imgur.com/a/da46U	11:50
hiemanshu	from RDA	11:50
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Khertan	Venemo, sdk seems to say yes but not ready, some qt guys says no use qml qwidget deprecated ..., meego.com bug report say deprecated and will be removed from repository	11:51
Venemo	lol	11:51
Venemo	QWidgets are _NOT_ deprecated	11:51
Venemo	they are "Done", and moved to a different library for Qt 5	11:51
Venemo	but not "deprecated"	11:51
Venemo	lol	11:51
flailingmonkey	"stable"	11:51
flailingmonkey	heh	11:51
MohammadAG	#meego says they are, they're not	11:52
Khertan	Venemo, there is different sound ... from different people	11:52
Venemo	Khertan, well, what I said is the official view from Qt Labs.	11:52
Khertan	Venemo, thx for the info	11:52
Venemo	and I know for a fact that there is a QMeegoTouchStyle	11:52
Venemo	so if it's not working properly, then it's a bug.	11:52
MohammadAG	QMaemo6Style*	11:53
Venemo	yes, that too	11:53
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Venemo	[10:52] <Venemo> so if it's not working properly, then it's a bug.	11:53
Khertan	Venemo, at least it s not working properly currently in Harmattan SDK	11:54
Venemo	plus, these plans of "deprecating" or "moving to a separate module" are _only_ for Qt 5	11:54
Venemo	they are still there in libQtGui in Qt4.x, so they have no excuse for this one	11:55
Venemo	and I won't use QML until at least the next version of it.	11:55
Khertan	(beta sdk) don't know if i should submit bug and where to	11:55
Khertan	Venemo, same here ... qml not ready for my use	11:55
Venemo	in my current app, I wouldn't gain anything by using QML	11:55
Khertan	Venemo, i m happy to hear i m not the only one to not use qml	11:56
Khertan	Venemo, in my current app it s a regression	11:56
jonwil	There has to be a list of things the CSSU needs somewhere	11:56
Khertan	Venemo, did you know if there is plan to port qt5 to Fremantle ?	11:56
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Venemo	Khertan, MohammadAG and myself are strongly not using QML currently because of its shortcomings.	11:57
Venemo	Khertan, I'm not aware of any official Fremantle plans, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. ask achipa about this	11:58
Jaffa	Khertan: Read this week's MWKN - it's got a thing on where to submit SDK bugs	11:58
Khertan	Jaffa, thx	11:59
jonwil	I see no reason why a community port of QT5 to Fremantle couldn't happen if the demand from the community was there	11:59
jonwil	Its open source after all	11:59
Khertan	jonwil, look at the try to port 4.7.2 to Fremantle	12:00
MohammadAG	Venemo, I started looking into QML	12:00
Khertan	jonwil, in the cssu	12:00
Khertan	jonwil, we wasn't able to fix the raster engine bug ... so i doubt of a full port	12:00
Khertan	:)	12:00
MohammadAG	not progressing though, yet	12:00
Khertan	MohammadAG, traitor	12:00
Khertan	:)	12:00
MohammadAG	4.7.4 is maemo upstream now	12:01
jonwil	I think a port of cellular-qt to Fremantle would be nice...	12:01
MohammadAG	but still has the raster bug	12:01
Khertan	MohammadAG, :(	12:01
jonwil	Whats hard about fixing this raster bug?	12:01
Khertan	jonwil, to found it ...	12:01
Venemo	jonwil, finding what causes it...	12:01
Khertan	jonwil, i ve try to revert every git commit ... without founding it	12:02
hiemanshu	exactly	12:02
Venemo	hiemanshu, is your comic reader app installable on F15 or Maemo5?	12:02
hiemanshu	Venemo: Maemo5 yes, do you want a deb?	12:02
jonwil	is cellular-qt open?	12:03
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hiemanshu	Venemo: and F15 yes, with a few changes	12:03
MohammadAG	Khertan, you sure you reverted every commit?	12:03
MohammadAG	cause eventually you would've reached the non buggy Qt	12:03
Khertan	MohammadAG, sure not ...	12:03
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MohammadAG	which was introduced somewhere between 4.7.0 and 4.7.1	12:04
Khertan	MohammadAG, as i didn't reach the non buggy qt	12:04
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Venemo	hiemanshu, I want 'yum install' or 'apt-get install'	12:04
jonwil	damn, looks like cellular-qt is not open :(	12:05
hiemanshu	Venemo: its still a WIP, so I haven't really added them to repos	12:05
Venemo	hiemanshu, for example, you can 'yum install puzzle-master' on your F15 to get my app and 'apt-get install puzzle-master' on Maemo 5 to get it	12:05
hiemanshu	Venemo: right, but I haven't updated it yet, not unless I fill out the other two pushbuttons (I am waiting on permissions)	12:06
Venemo	mhm	12:06
Venemo	all right	12:06
Venemo	I'll wait it out then	12:07
hiemanshu	Venemo: you could always dpkg -i it	12:07
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flailingmonkey	MohammadAG: are you saying the raster bug didn't exist in 4.7.0?	12:07
Venemo	hiemanshu, on F15?	12:08
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Venemo	flailingmonkey, that is correct	12:08
Venemo	flailingmonkey, not even in 4.7.1	12:08
hiemanshu	Venemo: on maemo5	12:08
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flailingmonkey	MohammadAG: it's possible that the true cause of the bug existed/was introduced earlier but was "protected" from being revealed by other bugs	12:08
Venemo	hiemanshu, is the app OSS? maybe I'll just get the sources then	12:08
hiemanshu	Venemo: it is, but the sources are messed up, I am going to push later in the evening today	12:09
MohammadAG	flailingmonkey, well, it's not in 4.8.0	12:09
MohammadAG	but 4.8.0 is a technical preview, so I can't push that	12:09
MohammadAG	oh one more thing	12:10
MohammadAG	are there Qt 4.7.5-4.7.9?	12:10
Venemo	I don't think so	12:10
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flailingmonkey	MohammadAG: it makes me cring when numbering gets to something like 4.7.11	12:10
Venemo	hiemanshu, okay, just gimme a link at the evening then :)	12:10
hiemanshu	Venemo: ok awesome	12:11
Venemo	is there a command to start the GUI on the SDK?	12:14
ruskie	fun... create for millions - nokia s40 contest nice to see it still being promoted	12:15
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Venemo	hm	12:17
Venemo	I have trouble with my debian control file...	12:17
Khertan	Venemo, meego-sb-*	12:19
Venemo	meego-sb-session ?	12:19
Khertan	Venemo, it s explained on harmattan-dev.nokia.com	12:19
Venemo	ok, I'll get breakfast	12:19
Venemo	brb	12:19
Khertan	Venemo, yep meego-sb-session start	12:19
hiemanshu	Venemo: start Xephyr, and then meego-sb-session start right away	12:21
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MohammadAG	hiemanshu, you forgot setting $DISPLAY :p	12:37
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: well no, it auto sets display for me	12:37
hiemanshu	cdl ++	12:38
Jaffa	X-Fade: ping	12:40
Jaffa	X-Fade: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3694 - will the Harmattan COBS target use Scratchbox, i.e. will checking for $SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE return "true"?	12:41
hiemanshu	Venemo: https://github.com/hiemanshu/komedia/tree/N900	12:41
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: have the link to the nokia sdk bug report?	12:41
lardman	morning	12:41
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X-Fade	Jaffa: No, it won't.	12:43
bindi	ha, fixed my problem	12:47
Jaffa	X-Fade: OK, thanks	12:47
Jaffa	X-Fade: Do you know if there is an env. variable which could be used to identify OBS builds? There must be one, after all...	12:49
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Venemo	hiemanshu, can you gimme a line to launch Xephyr?	12:52
lardman	Any Nokians about who are involved in GPS stuff?	12:52
lardman	I'm just wondering whether the Nokia SUPL server will provide LTO data?	12:53
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alterego	What's LTO?	12:53
lardman	Long Time Orbit	12:53
lardman	http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/tb/LTO-TB100-R.pdf	12:54
alterego	Hmmm, I donmt think it does. Is that jusually in the ephemeris?	12:54
hiemanshu	Venemo: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Getting_started_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Installing_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Non-Debian	12:54
alterego	I'd like to see A-GPS integrated into GSM	12:55
alterego	So it's free to use, no need to have a data connection :/	12:55
Venemo	thx hiemanshu	12:55
hiemanshu	Venemo: I also linked you the source btw	12:55
lardman	alterego: it is high accuracy ephemeris data which is valid for ~4 days	12:55
Venemo	hiemanshu, yep, I saw, just haven't got the time to react yet :P	12:55
lardman	alterego: it's hard to know really, as the request probably asks for whatever it wants	12:56
hiemanshu	Venemo: well I still fixing some stupid mistakes I did here and there	12:56
lardman	from the SUPL server	12:56
alterego	lardman: yeah, I get it, didn't recognise the cronym for some reason.	12:56
Venemo	all right	12:56
Venemo	the question now is	12:56
alterego	lardman: sure but all agps needs is the ephemeris package to upload into the gps	12:56
Venemo	how do I make a single control file to work with both Fremantle and Harmattan?	12:57
alterego	This can be auto loaded by cell towers	12:57
hiemanshu	Venemo: soft links?	12:57
Venemo	hiemanshu, what do you mean?	12:57
alterego	Venemo: pick the lowest common denominator for dpkg deps and it should work	12:58
Venemo	alterego, nope	12:58
alterego	The custom fields not recognised by fremantle should be ignored no?	12:58
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Venemo	alterego, for Fremantle, I want to depend on something that is specific to Fremantle	12:58
lardman	alterego: yes, but if your ephemeris data go out of date (which is only a matter of hours), and your net connection is poor or non-existant then LTO can help there	12:58
alterego	Ah, hmm	12:58
* lardman currently has only 2G in the countryside where he lives and driving around I can drop off the signal map completely		12:59
hiemanshu	Venemo: nvm, /me was thinking of something else	12:59
alterego	lardman: sure, I was talking about agps in general, I don't think lto is distributed	12:59
lardman	On the N900 a central server was used for the SUPL data	12:59
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alterego	lardman: it's the same for all Nokia agps	13:00
Venemo	X-Fade, ping	13:01
lardman	which means if they support LTO on the SUPL server, we (or at least I with my dodgy coverage) could benefit	13:01
X-Fade	Venemo: pong	13:01
Venemo	X-Fade, would this approach work on the auto-builder? http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/27/different-dependencies-between-debian-and-ubuntu-but-common-source-package/	13:01
Venemo	X-Fade, I want my package to have a fremantle-specific dependency on Fremantle	13:01
alterego	lardman: I'll ask some people when they come on line that work in that area.	13:01
lardman	thanks	13:02
X-Fade	Venemo: Just use a \| dependency then?	13:02
lardman	alterego: I'd need a device too mind you ;)	13:02
Venemo	X-Fade, please elaborate	13:02
X-Fade	Venemo: Is it a lib which is different in fremantle than in debian or so?	13:03
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Venemo	not exactly. it is a lib which is present in fremantle but not in others	13:03
Venemo	I currently use: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-dev (>= 4.5), libqtm-dev \| maemo-version (<< 5.0), libqtm-sensors \| maemo-version (<< 5.0), libhildon-extras1-dev \| maemo-version (<< 5.0)	13:03
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Venemo	which makes it build on both Diablo and Fremantle	13:04
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Venemo	question is, how can I make it build on Harmattan, which has neither maemo-version nor libhildon-extras1-dev	13:04
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flailingmonkey	assume Harmattan when neither exist...?	13:05
flailingmonkey	(ugly i know)	13:05
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X-Fade	Venemo: Well for Harmattan I would just keep a separate debian dir. As in OBS you can submit your debian.tar.gz separately.	13:05
Venemo	X-Fade, I prefer to keep a single debian dir, beause the only difference is this single package.	13:06
X-Fade	Venemo: But you can go really fancy with the debain tools, sure.	13:06
Jaffa	X-Fade: Of course, it's not entirely clear how you build that when using the Qt SDK as dpkg-buildpackage assumes you're building a native package	13:06
Venemo	X-Fade, that is why I asked whether the approach on that link would work in the auto-builder or not :)	13:06
Jaffa	Venemo: I've got symlinks between qtc_packaging/debian_harmattan and ..._fremantle for copyright, control, changelog etc. However, it looks like thy should be completely sharable.	13:07
X-Fade	Venemo: The autobuilder is just a scratchbox with some tools on top. So if it works in your local SB, it works there too.	13:07
Venemo	Jaffa, yeah	13:07
Venemo	X-Fade, all right, thank you :)	13:07
alterego	Quim seems to have the list already :/	13:08
* alterego shits himself		13:08
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MohammadAG	lol was just gonna say that	13:08
Jaffa	alterego: And not enough good submissions for 250	13:08
alterego	Jaffa: seriously?	13:08
alterego	Eek ..	13:08
Jaffa	X-Fade: Thoughts on how to build source.tar.gz, debian.tar.gz and *.dsc from the Qt SDK structure welcome at http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3694	13:08
X-Fade	Jaffa: I have no idea.	13:09
MohammadAG	alterego, yep, he expected more	13:09
Venemo	meh! Harmattan SDK doesn't even have a /etc/dpkg/origins/	13:09
Jaffa	alterego: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23994&postcount=123	13:09
MohammadAG	if only he could post the list he's been through	13:09
Jaffa	X-Fade: Fair enough. I've emailed Jeremiah to see if he's got any dpkg foo	13:09
MohammadAG	it'd help, in a way	13:09
Jaffa	s/foo/-fu/	13:09
infobot	Jaffa meant: X-Fade: Fair enough. I've emailed Jeremiah to see if he's got any dpkg -fu	13:09
alterego	Well, I have more ideas, I'm willing to accept multiple devices ;)	13:09
MohammadAG	lol	13:10
X-Fade	Jaffa: Why not just create a small script which grabs the files and creates a tarball after you have done the regular stuff?	13:10
Jaffa	X-Fade: The dsc file checksums won't match	13:10
X-Fade	Jaffa: So you are saying your sed skills suck? :)	13:11
alterego	Hahah	13:11
Jaffa	X-Fade: I tried creating a tarball of everything but 'debian' as attitude_0.9.2.orig.tar.gz alongside but then dpkg-buildpackage has a fit	13:11
X-Fade	But yeah, those would need to be updated.	13:11
Jaffa	X-Fade: Are you suggesting I give up on dpkg-buildpackage completely and just generate the dsc file manually? ;-)	13:11
MohammadAG	umm, will qgil send emails to the people who "win" the N950 directly, or will he send all emails in one batch?	13:12
X-Fade	Jaffa: You are allowed to keep your debian dir in the source of course. But that might make it more ugly when you compile for MeeGo rpm.	13:12
Jaffa	X-Fade: BTW, very willing to start testing things in Harmattan OBS ;-)	13:12
X-Fade	Jaffa: Yeah, well.... issues.	13:12
Venemo	hm	13:13
X-Fade	Jaffa: curse busybox :)	13:13
MohammadAG	me too, I have libs to be pushed :)	13:13
Venemo	swipe is buggy in the Harmattan SDK	13:13
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: People able to help? We've got some hackers kicking around	13:13
alterego	Yeah, I'd like to push some stuff to the Harmattan OBS too.	13:13
MohammadAG	start a competition, only 1 OBS account will be given out	13:14
alterego	:)	13:14
alterego	To 250 devs?	13:14
alterego	Applications now?	13:14
Khertan	MohammadAG, we will be fixed at end of the week :)	13:15
MohammadAG	alterego, no, there can only be one dev	13:15
Venemo	http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23994&postcount=123	13:16
MohammadAG	you're late Venemo :P	13:17
Venemo	?	13:17
alterego	Heh	13:17
Jaffa	X-Fade: Harmattan OBS needs: source tarball, dsc, debian.tar.gz? Does the 'debian.tar.gz' contain a 'debian/' prefix?	13:17
Venemo	well, I have not been sent either a yes neither a no yet	13:18
X-Fade	Jaffa: It just extracts it in the source dir.	13:18
X-Fade	Jaffa: So yeah.	13:18
Jaffa	X-Fade: OK, ta.	13:18
* Jaffa is going to write a script which takes a Qt SDK project and produces those		13:18
Jaffa	X-Fade: Is there any signing required?	13:18
Jaffa	X-Fade: Or is it handled, like the autobuilder, by authenticating the uploader	13:19
MohammadAG	Venemo, by the end of the week I think	13:19
Venemo	yep	13:19
X-Fade	Jaffa: No, but you can sign.	13:19
MohammadAG	also, I'm not sure which email I'm getting the yes/no in	13:19
Venemo	hm	13:19
Venemo	meego-sb-session start doesn't work for me on HARMATTAN_X86	13:19
Khertan	qgil Missing more proposals to port great Linux desktop projects to MeeGo @ N950 device program. Forward! Apply today! ... hum ... so it s seems some was refused quickly :)	13:20
flailingmonkey	Quim is going to post a nice list of accepted projects too	13:20
Khertan	lol i m late too	13:20
Venemo	on that, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23894&postcount=107	13:20
flailingmonkey	I really wanted to have something worthwhile to put for an app	13:21
Jaffa	X-Fade: So, signing accepted but not required. Good - makes the script easier :-)	13:21
flailingmonkey	but I don't have anything I've written before, and my idea was to create a Qt-based activity viewer for Zietgiest	13:21
flailingmonkey	but I don't know if Zeitgiest is even in Harmattan... I didn't feel worthy of such a sexy device as the N950 :p	13:22
* Khertan is crossing finger		13:22
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* Khertan but my app will be out of scope ... a source code without keyboard .... :( ... Khweeteur a twitter client ... already integrated in n9 ... rest the new planned apps which didn't exist yet		13:24
Khertan	s/source code/source code editor	13:24
Venemo	Khertan :(	13:24
flailingmonkey	Khertan: still, you have proven history of app development	13:24
Khertan	flailingmonkey, indeed	13:24
Khertan	:)	13:24
Khertan	only future know the truth :)	13:25
Khertan	:)	13:25
Venemo	Khertan, Khweeteur and KhtEditor are there and show that you are really able and willing to make apps	13:25
Khertan	;) w8 and see :)	13:25
flailingmonkey	Khertan: I don't have anything to point to, and I really think the devices should go to those who are already developing	13:25
MohammadAG	would be fun if qgil ended this all next week with a "This was just a test to see who'd apply, we're giving N950s to all 530 applicants!"	13:25
flailingmonkey	12 mega pixel camera I hear	13:26
Khertan	MohammadAG, hi hi also :)	13:26
MohammadAG	no, 8	13:26
Khertan	flailingmonkey, rumors ...	13:26
MohammadAG	no, not rumors	13:26
Venemo	MohammadAG, :D	13:26
MohammadAG	the old revision of the dev device had 64GBs of storage, 512MBs of RAM, and a 12MP cam	13:26
MohammadAG	the new one being sent out has 16GBs, 1GB of RAM and an 8MP cam	13:27
Venemo	MohammadAG, or they could say, "This was just a test to see who'd apply, the N950 was just a hoax"	13:27
Khertan	ah ... you know the new one ?	13:27
MohammadAG	yeah, we met in a park :P	13:27
Khertan	MohammadAG, did you know if there is a sd card slot ?	13:27
Khertan	MohammadAG, hihi	13:27
Khertan	:)	13:27
alterego	No SD slot	13:27
lardman	MohammadAG: so the one you were using yesterday was an old one?	13:27
Venemo	MohammadAG, srsly???	13:27
MohammadAG	no SD slot from specs list, could be wrong	13:27
MohammadAG	well I hope I'm wrong	13:27
Venemo	[12:27] <MohammadAG> yeah, we met in a park :P ---> seriously?	13:28
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Venemo	are there even parks in there?	13:28
lardman	behind some bushes no doubt	13:28
MohammadAG	:P	13:28
MohammadAG	Venemo, look up the definition of ":P"	13:28
Khertan	gmail : refreshing rate too fast :)	13:29
Khertan	hihi	13:29
MohammadAG	It probably means "qgil's going through applications and I'm shittnig myself, and laughing it up"	13:29
Venemo	:P	13:29
cloudyLights	oh ya	13:29
Venemo	MohammadAG, so, he told you that he's gonna send you an N950	13:29
psycho_oreos	wow, new one is 16GB and 8MP camera.. what a great change from 64GB with 12MP camera just for upping the memory	13:30
MohammadAG	I wish he did	13:30
cloudyLights	can anyone share advice on which distro using xen to use to start a new vps for scratchbox?	13:30
cloudyLights	to allow me development?	13:30
X-Fade	psycho_oreos: It is just a dev device :)	13:30
MohammadAG	Ubuntu server	13:30
lardman	psycho_oreos: well MPix is not important, strange the drop in GB for the storage though	13:30
cloudyLights	debian+xen?	13:30
cloudyLights	I am kind of new to xen	13:30
flailingmonkey	I'd rather have 8MP camera and 1GB of RAM	13:30
Venemo	well, meego-sb-session start doesn't work for me from HARMATTAN_X86	13:30
Khertan	i prefer the 1Gb of Ram	13:31
lardman	+1	13:31
MohammadAG	export DISPLAY=:2 Venemo	13:31
Khertan	Venemo, hum strange works for me	13:31
psycho_oreos	X-Fade, indeed though I was a little more hopeful that with a dev device they'd beef it up to the higher spec N9 rather than shoving in 16GB and be happy	13:31
Khertan	did you launch Xephyr ?	13:31
Venemo	export DISPLAY=:2 doesn't make it work either	13:31
Jaffa	X-Fade: Does OBS have "debian.tar.gz" hardcoded?	13:31
psycho_oreos	lardman, then again its funny how they've removed 12MP camera.. ah well	13:31
Khertan	psycho_oreos, a dev didn't need storage ... ram is more welcome	13:31
X-Fade	Jaffa: afaik, yes.	13:31
Jaffa	X-Fade: Bah	13:32
psycho_oreos	Khertan, I was hoping more of more RAM and more storage :)	13:32
edheldil	bad luck my wherigo client is still in pre-alpha	13:32
X-Fade	psycho_oreos: Typically you want dev devices slower and more limited then target. So developers do a better job.	13:32
Jaffa	X-Fade: What about autobuilder for fremantle? Can that take multiple tar.gzs and sticks them all together?	13:32
X-Fade	Jaffa: no	13:32
X-Fade	Jaffa: Well, orig and diff works.	13:32
psycho_oreos	ahh well at the end of the day it is a dev device no matter how you put it	13:32
flailingmonkey	the drop in GB is just cheaper flash chips, plenty of manufacturing savings	13:32
Khertan	psycho_oreos, it s better to have similar specs than the targetted device	13:33
Khertan	X-Fade, +1	13:33
psycho_oreos	X-Fade, not really imo :) you can play with ulimits and what not to emulate the target device	13:33
lardman	Will the N9 have a different camera?	13:33
X-Fade	psycho_oreos: Creates lazy coders :)	13:33
Venemo	lardman, yep, different unit	13:33
X-Fade	lardman: yes.	13:33
psycho_oreos	Khertan, somewhat similar :) its only now equivalent to the low end of N9 if you compare it literally.. and without NFC	13:33
Jaffa	X-Fade: Will attitude_0.9.2.orig.tar.gz and debian.tar.gz work on Harmattan COBS?	13:34
psycho_oreos	X-Fade, lol I dunno about that ;)	13:34
lardman	Hmm, ok, thanks chaps	13:34
Venemo	MohammadAG, http://pastebin.com/dcmEVgx5	13:34
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Or is it just attitude.tar.gz and debian.tar.gz which are needed?	13:34
MohammadAG	lardman, same camera on the front, different one on the back	13:34
Venemo	the big deal is, "ERROR: No DBUS session bus found."	13:34
X-Fade	Jaffa: I think so. But we'd need to test.	13:34
Venemo	and the GUI doesn't appear at all	13:34
lardman	MohammadAG: ok, I'm just thinking of the fiddling that was necessary with mBarcode to get the camera on the N900 working adequately	13:34
Venemo	strangely, it worked on HARMATTAN_ARMEL	13:34
X-Fade	Jaffa: You can test that with the ubuntu target now already.	13:34
Jaffa	X-Fade: Ah, cool.	13:35
MohammadAG	Venemo, meego-run	13:35
MohammadAG	or source /tmp/session_bus_address.user	13:35
Khertan	meego-run replace af-run-standalone of the maemo sdk :)	13:35
MohammadAG	lardman, doesn't it use Qt Mobility?	13:35
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Venemo	MohammadAG, now the app seems to be running, but the Xephyr screen is still empty	13:36
lardman	MohammadAG: not for the camera no, it requires access to the individial frames, and uses pipelining too	13:36
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lardman	video frames that is	13:36
MohammadAG	oh, so gstreamer?	13:36
lardman	yep	13:37
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lardman	I'm going to take this opportunity to separate out the decoder parts from the camera parts from the UI and allow the first two to be more easily embedded in apps	13:38
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Jaffa	X-Fade: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24002#post24002 FYI	13:40
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X-Fade	Jaffa: Ok, cool.	13:42
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achipa	Khertan: Venemo: no plans, Maemo5 was a separate branch anyway, forwart porting would probably require significant effort	13:43
lardman	hmm, so .spec stands for spectacle does it?	13:44
Mece_	konttori writes that you have flash in fennec on N9	13:44
Khertan	:)	13:44
alterego	Mece_: I found that out yesterday :P	13:44
alterego	Looks like some people picked up on me tweet	13:45
Mece_	so... perhaps some about:config hacking would enable it in default browser	13:46
alterego	default browser is webkit not gecko	13:47
Mece_	alterego, ah, right. well, I guess it can't use the same plugin then..	13:47
MohammadAG	alterego, couldn't find flash* on the N950	13:48
alterego	MohammadAG: not suprising, we'll have to wait and see, N9 firmware is different to N950	13:48
flailingmonkey	N950 might not have Flash at all...	13:48
alterego	indeed	13:48
flailingmonkey	I look forward to someone writing up an indepth comparison of day to day use of N950 vs N900	13:49
lardman	I see from one of Quim's tweets that he hopes to send some if not all posts by the end of the week, which means not too long to wait	13:50
MohammadAG	end of week is sunday right?	13:50
alterego	lardman: I think he plans on posting a list today actually ;)	13:50
lardman	alterego: cool, well I guess that counts as before the end of the week :)	13:50
flailingmonkey	from the looks of it, Nokia could keep the base design to use with next gen chipset design... save on the design work	13:51
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flailingmonkey	I would not be surprised if of those 530 applicants, many were unqualified :/	13:51
MohammadAG	oh and no libflash* either, just checked	13:51
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SpeedEvil	flailingmonkey: Well - tht's retty much a given. Even if it's only 30% or so - that boosts the chances for the not unqualified	13:52
flailingmonkey	SpeedEvil: I only have ideas, but haven't developed for mobile or qt before. I didn't bother applying because I didn't want to waste Quim's time :p	13:53
lcuk	lardman, symbian manages realtime facial recognition on the n8	13:54
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lcuk	should really push for similar barcodey goodness	13:54
lardman	lcuk: As in face tracking, or recog?	13:54
SpeedEvil	lcuk: n9 has face recognition too	13:54
MohammadAG	the N900 can do face recognition	13:54
SpeedEvil	lcuk: n950 - who knows	13:54
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lardman	lcuk: absolutely, as soon as I see the camera app	13:54
lcuk	lardman, tracking	13:54
SpeedEvil	lcuk: I mean face tracking on camera	13:55
DocScrutinizer	face detection	13:55
lardman	lcuk: as SpeedEvil says, that's apparently in the N950 too	13:55
lcuk	yes SpeedEvil thanks for clarification	13:55
DocScrutinizer	moo javispedro	13:55
hiemanshu	I got face detection working on my N900 using opencv	13:55
lcuk	and lardman \o notice you re-found twitter	13:55
lardman	Will be interesting to see how that is arranged in the code of the camera app, and insert a similar component for barcodes	13:55
SpeedEvil	http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/	13:55
lcuk	been a while since september 2009 :P	13:55
hiemanshu	front/back camera, both worked fine, except being a little slow	13:55
SpeedEvil	On the face recognition	13:55
lardman	lcuk: well I thought I'd start doing some joins, I feel rather info starved only being able to use the interweb at work	13:56
SpeedEvil	lardman: Indeed - integrating it into the focus algorithm	13:56
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SpeedEvil	Barcode should be an ideal focus target really	13:56
lardman	yep, can't get much better contrast target	13:56
lardman	which reminds me that contrast based autofocus on IR cameras is rubbish	13:57
* SpeedEvil continues to check eail obsessively.		13:57
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alterego	neat: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N950	13:58
javispedro	moo	13:59
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: that'S intriguing, you implemented face detection on N900? cool!	13:59
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: using opencv yes	14:00
DocScrutinizer	I'd think some here would love to see yoiu joining their devel team :-)	14:00
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hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I intially wrote it for RHoK and a desktop, but after compiling opencv for the phone it worked just fine	14:01
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I am working towards actual recognition now	14:01
DocScrutinizer	yay	14:02
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lardman	hiemanshu: cool	14:02
DocScrutinizer	ambitious project, true face recog is kinda the holy grail of image processing :-)	14:02
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SpeedEvil	Surely there's a facebook API for that. :)	14:03
DocScrutinizer	haha	14:03
hiemanshu	there is face.com :P	14:04
lardman	how well does their process work?	14:04
lardman	facebook that is	14:04
DocScrutinizer	too good	14:04
DocScrutinizer	;-)	14:04
SpeedEvil	facebook is scary that way.	14:04
SpeedEvil	They have cues.	14:04
lardman	links between friends?	14:04
lardman	I've not looked at Facebook for a while, other than through MSN	14:05
SpeedEvil	So if your friends have uploaded your email into their contact lists - and it knows your friends are in the picture - it can make a good guess at you.	14:05
hiemanshu	lardman: it can only compare with people that share images, mostly your friends	14:05
lardman	yep	14:05
hiemanshu	(face.com)	14:05
lardman	ah ok	14:05
Hurrian	anyone unpacked the N9/50 root images?	14:05
SpeedEvil	Its problem isn't searching amongst millions of people, but hundreds, or even one, if the friends lists of two people are disparate and only contain you.	14:05
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hiemanshu	and it relies on imaqes being tagged	14:06
DocScrutinizer	Hurrian: well, there are unpacked images on N950 :-)	14:06
hiemanshu	images*	14:06
SpeedEvil	hiemanshu: At the moment - officially	14:06
hiemanshu	with all the spamming going on facebook, I doubt people have acctual images of them tagged	14:07
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* SpeedEvil realises that with time, you can get position to within a degree or so, with observing the sun from the camera on the n9/n950		14:12
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Hurrian	docscrutinizer, any chance of someone providing cp -a dumps of the root filesystem?	14:13
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you're a fox!	14:14
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: that's actually so damn brilliant... incredible	14:15
SpeedEvil	I wonder if the camera module datasheet says 'do not point at sun'	14:15
SpeedEvil	=do not leave face down	14:15
DocScrutinizer	AAGPS : Astrologically Assisted GPS	14:15
DocScrutinizer	I think that'd be pretty bad as you can not do this	14:16
lardman	startracker could be cool	14:18
RST38h	heya lardman	14:18
lardman	hi RST38h	14:18
hiemanshu	lardman: something like kstars would be nice	14:18
SpeedEvil	lardman: That's probably really debatable from a sensitivity POV	14:18
lardman	bbiam, have to find an oscilloscope	14:18
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lardman	SpeedEvil: yeah I don't expect to actually be able to see (m)any stars for the tracker	14:25
lardman	hiemanshu: I think there is some sort of star map app isn't there?	14:26
SpeedEvil	lardman: You can	14:26
lardman	oh right	14:26
SpeedEvil	lardman: I can see stars in the n900	14:26
SpeedEvil	lardman: But they're of equal magnitude to the noise - pretty much	14:26
hiemanshu	lardman: kstars	14:26
SpeedEvil	even for fairly bright stars. They 'look' different to noise	14:26
lardman	hiemanshu: I meant already ported	14:26
lardman	SpeedEvil: some image processing magic could be performed then :)	14:27
hiemanshu	lardman: havent found any, so not sure	14:27
SpeedEvil	lardman: yes - stacking could in principle work, combined with star movement	14:27
SpeedEvil	lardman: But it's going to be a 'singing pig' type effect.	14:27
RST38h	Wait, are you saying you are going to use N900's camera as a telescope? =)	14:29
lardman	I'll stick to AGPS I think :)	14:29
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: lardman : there's orerry	14:29
DocScrutinizer	and there's that other sky app I forgot the name	14:29
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: orrery*	14:29
SpeedEvil	RST38h: In the same way you can do fine carpentry with a sledgehammer, yes.	14:29
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: stellarium ?	14:30
DocScrutinizer	yep	14:30
SpeedEvil	Orrery on n9 could be quite awesome.	14:30
DocScrutinizer	indeed	14:30
hiemanshu	stellarium on N9 would be awesomer, much more features	14:30
alterego	esp. digital compass ..	14:31
SpeedEvil	Digital compass + accelerometer.	14:31
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SpeedEvil	compass alone buys you nothing	14:31
lardman	On the Tab w/ compass, the star maps things are pretty laggy	14:31
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ?	14:31
lardman	may just be poor compass damping though	14:31
SpeedEvil	compass along leaves an ambiguity as to pointing along the magnetic field axis	14:32
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SpeedEvil	alone	14:32
RST38h	Speed: You mean, you bang yourself on the head with an N900 and see stars? =)	14:32
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: still not getting your point	14:32
lardman	need to know orientation	14:32
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RST38h	lardman: Most likely the software having trouble scrolling the huge bitmap in Java	14:32
SpeedEvil	RST38h: you can see stars on the n900 - with fcam, at night. It's just all of the noise is of a comparable magnitude to even the brightest	14:32
lardman	RST38h: lol	14:33
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RST38h	lardman: not fucking joking =(	14:33
DocScrutinizer	you're aware it's specified as THREE axis magnetometer	14:33
* RST38h has been doing Android development for the last couple of weeks. Pretty pitiful.		14:33
lardman	docscrutinizer: that allows you to know the magnetic heading with the device in any orientation	14:33
hiemanshu	RST38h: no we hit the N900 to the wall, and we the stars on it	14:33
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Sure - and that does not resolve the ambiguity - you can turn the phone around the magnetic field axis, and get no movement of the magnetometer.	14:33
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: you need the accellerometer to resolve that ambiguity.	14:34
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: it still doesn't give you the actual angle from the horizontal	14:34
lardman	docscrutinizer: or I guess you could rougly work out your latitude by comparing the direction of the field lines knowing the device orientation	14:34
SpeedEvil	(which does not work at the magnetic poles - but that's a seperate issue)	14:34
SpeedEvil	lardman: quite precisely	14:34
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: umm yes. gotit	14:34
SpeedEvil	lardman: To within a degree or three.	14:34
lardman	SpeedEvil: well I think our definition of precision differs ;)	14:34
SpeedEvil	Oooh - that would in principle also be a useful thing to feed back to the GPS	14:35
lardman	agreed	14:35
SpeedEvil	Well - it's not completely useless - magellan would have killed for 3 degrees precision.	14:35
lardman	sure, I'm taking the mick :)	14:35
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: so make AAGPS -> AMAGPS	14:36
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SpeedEvil	In practice, it's going to be locked into the cellmodem again.	14:37
lardman	we may still be able to talk to it via SUPL messages though	14:37
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: could we co-projmanage AMAGPS?	14:37
SpeedEvil	Would be neat if it could be done.	14:37
SpeedEvil	In addition to pushing wifi information into the mix too	14:38
lardman	Would be another location method fo add to liblocation :)	14:38
lardman	yep	14:38
lardman	count me in anyway	14:38
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DocScrutinizer	are you going to set up garage? or whatever the corresponding meego-harmattan way to kick off a project	14:38
yuizy	hi guys	14:39
yuizy	i have lately been getting _a lot_ of calls from telemarketers. is there a program that could play an audio file directly to the microphone, so that i could rickroll those annoying bastards? would it be easy to create one? (i have an n900)	14:39
SpeedEvil	I don't know how to setup a garage project.	14:39
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alterego	yuizy: now that's a good idea for an app :D	14:39
yuizy	yes indeed	14:39
lardman	So just for code repo or do we also need a server to do some info processing>	14:39
DocScrutinizer	I don't even know if garage is any sensible way for meego projects	14:39
DocScrutinizer	aiui garage is in service mode	14:40
SpeedEvil	A simple 'project to add location hints for the GPS' or something would be interesting - there may be some more.	14:40
lardman	Might be worth making a wiki page here to talk about what to do	14:40
alterego	gitorious is the prefered meego project home	14:40
SpeedEvil	lardman: For the magnetometer+accel - pretty much not.	14:40
alterego	It's up to you though	14:40
lardman	DocScrutinizer: you can still get projects setup though, I created one a week or two ago	14:40
alterego	There was talk of a MeeGo garage at somepoint though.	14:40
DocScrutinizer	lardman: no server	14:40
SpeedEvil	lardman: The magnetic model is pretty much defined.	14:40
alterego	May still happen	14:40
lardman	fine	14:40
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: the appeal if the concept is it needs no supl or similar online	14:41
lardman	Absolutely, but we could still create a supl message to pass to the modem, if that's the form it expects it in	14:41
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: that would mean storing GBs of data on the phone?	14:42
DocScrutinizer	lardman: indeed	14:42
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: why?	14:42
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SpeedEvil	The magnetic model is several hundred bytes of spherical harmonics	14:42
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lardman	offline storage of cell ids would be useful though	14:42
DocScrutinizer	seems perfectly feasible without online or storing GBs of data	14:43
cloudyLights	min , do we all agree that the N900 gps is bad and the agps is good?	14:43
DocScrutinizer	lardman: go openbmap->download	14:43
cloudyLights	and is this fixed in the N950?	14:43
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: N950 GPS allegedly is exorbitant	14:44
SpeedEvil	It occurs to me also that with a phone with no shutter, it's going to get a view of the sun quite a lot.	14:44
Hurrian	SpeedEvil ++	14:44
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Hurrian	wonder why they really, really dont add shutters anymore	14:44
SpeedEvil	I've raised a question on camera-safety for the n9	14:44
cloudyLights	lardman: are you coding cellular location now?	14:44
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: indeed, that's what I meant with "bad, as you can't do that"	14:44
cloudyLights	but no sd slot....	14:44
SpeedEvil	The designer of the n9 camera is responding to a thread	14:44
lardman	cloudyLights: talking about it, I'm at work doing day job stuff atm	14:45
cloudyLights	last night I looked at netmon	14:45
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: link?	14:45
cloudyLights	I didnt see anywhere smscb	14:45
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: takes some more hours	14:45
cloudyLights	It just uses dbus to get signals	14:45
SpeedEvil	http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/ DocScrutinizer	14:46
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DocScrutinizer	thanks SpeedEvil	14:46
cloudyLights	back to trying to install heart beat on centos	14:46
lardman	DocScrutinizer: just looking for a db dump to see how large it is, but I only see the api	14:48
DocScrutinizer	this conversations.nokia.com page is a PITA, freezes for a minute on 97% loading	14:48
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: buttons/moving things are nasty!	14:48
SpeedEvil	:/	14:48
DocScrutinizer	lardman: I haven't looked into openbmap too deeply	14:48
lardman	I tell a lie, found it	14:49
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lardman	http://www.openbmap.org/latest/cellular/raw/	14:49
DocScrutinizer	I think there is some way to get to know about the db size etc	14:49
DocScrutinizer	yeah	14:49
DocScrutinizer	that'S what I recalled	14:49
lardman	~30Mb zip file	14:49
lardman	wifi is ~21Mb zip file	14:50
SpeedEvil	lardman: It really needs some opt-in tracking goodness from lots of poeople though	14:50
lardman	not too bad anyway	14:50
lardman	SpeedEvil: yep, but if we manage to get it working in e.g. liblocation we could provide some data back at least	14:50
cloudyLights	maybe I can have a ride and add more data	14:50
DocScrutinizer	friggin useless for serious conversations, this page - ohmy it's a blog. SpeedEvil any matchstring for "find"?	14:51
SpeedEvil	for what?	14:51
DocScrutinizer	for that convo.nokia.com page	14:51
SpeedEvil	damian is the camera guy	14:51
DocScrutinizer	you linked above	14:51
lardman	cloudyLights: there are only a couple of available clients atm and one needs to contact them if you want to create and use a custom client to upload, so no rush	14:51
DocScrutinizer	yes, gathered as much	14:51
SpeedEvil	What do you mean match?	14:52
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you said you are in a conversation with him	14:52
DocScrutinizer	you said he answered	14:52
DocScrutinizer	AIUI	14:52
SpeedEvil	I meant he's answering questions	14:53
DocScrutinizer	oooh	14:53
alterego	The anticipation is killing me!	14:53
DocScrutinizer	[2011-06-29 13:44:35] <SpeedEvil> I've raised a question on camera-safety for the n9	14:53
SpeedEvil	search on 'sun' - but don't mention the name here. :)	14:54
hiemanshu	http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24006&postcount=126	14:54
cloudyLights	lardman; btw, wazes may also feed this database	14:54
lardman	implementing Wazes would also be cool and if it could then upload data that would be great	14:54
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cloudyLights	this chap is writing a QT wazes client usng the web API	14:57
lardman	yep I've seen that	14:57
cloudyLights	would be better had he used the C code	14:57
lardman	not sure there is any open source code though is there?	14:57
cloudyLights	surely he would get a N950	14:57
SpeedEvil	cloudyLights: If applied	14:58
cloudyLights	symbian handhelds sold more when waze was avail for it	14:58
cloudyLights	curretly there are two navagation programs here for any handheld	14:59
cloudyLights	iGo and waze. waze is free... and more reliable	14:59
cloudyLights	the waze developpers get paid by the cellular companies for the bandwidth	15:00
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cloudyLights	cause more ppl used 3G	15:00
cloudyLights	they even released a blackbery client	15:00
cloudyLights	tee time	15:01
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lardman	The only thing I want to see from Waze is mean speeds on routes	15:03
lardman	but not sure that's even available, as they suck in the data and then route you don't they?	15:04
RST38h	looks like it	15:04
lardman	would be better to create an open source server that people can then interrogate to get mean speeds along roads	15:05
lardman	imo	15:05
SpeedEvil	openstreetma	15:05
lardman	would be quite interesting too	15:05
SpeedEvil	p	15:05
lardman	do they provide such a service?	15:05
SpeedEvil	maxspeed tags on roads	15:05
SpeedEvil	However - not live.	15:05
SpeedEvil	And that's legal maxspeed	15:06
lardman	that's useful, but I'm thinking of live speeds as well as predicting traffic flows from historcal data	15:06
SpeedEvil	Problem is to do it right, you need hundreds of thousands of users	15:06
mgedmin	osm also has public gps tracks with timestamps	15:06
SpeedEvil	At least	15:06
mgedmin	you could extract mean speeds from those, I suppose	15:06
lardman	SpeedEvil: indeed, but you have to start somewhere	15:06
lardman	mgedmin: good idea	15:06
SpeedEvil	Many OSM tracks do not have timing info	15:06
SpeedEvil	Intentionally	15:06
lardman	yeah, that's the worry of course ;)	15:07
lardman	when providing any data	15:07
lardman	but that could be rounded to the max speed	15:07
mgedmin	I recall being unable to upload .gpx files that lacked timestamps	15:08
lardman	as I wouldn't want to provide a free speed camera placement facility for anyone	15:08
mgedmin	(such as those produced by early versions of maemo-mapper)	15:08
mgedmin	but I don't know if osm's servers expose those timestamps in their public gps track data	15:08
RST38h	ah, hi, mgedmin	15:09
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SpeedEvil	mgedmin: they stripped timestamps unless you say so	15:10
SpeedEvil	but required them, as ones without generally indicated broken GPS	15:10
SpeedEvil	GPX	15:10
mgedmin	hi, RST38h (and everyone)	15:10
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SpeedEvil	Some programs simplified the trace _way_ too much, and also diddn't output time, so it was a heuristic.	15:10
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RST38h	...The 7 documented attempts at opening SCP-988 via machine or other indirect mechanism have been stopped respectively by electrical shorts, mechanical jams, and in one case the mislabeling of a bottle of epoxy as lubricant...	15:17
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lardman	lol	15:18
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lardman	I wonder if they were asking themselves why it was a two part lubricant....?	15:18
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, obviously I'm cat1	15:19
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DocScrutinizer	though hostmode should qualify for cat3	15:20
RST38h	lardman: might have been premixed epoxy!	15:21
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Should debian.tar.gz be included in the dsc file?	15:26
X-Fade	Jaffa: Good question. I don't remember, let me check :)	15:27
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: cat1/3?	15:29
DocScrutinizer	quim's recent mail about DDP	15:30
lardman	what list is this, or a personal one?	15:31
lardman	I've not seen anything	15:31
X-Fade	Jaffa: Afaik it should be in the dsc. See this example: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=ruby-fakeweb&project=home%3Albt%3Arails	15:32
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Jaffa	X-Fade: What about versions? Is that something which should be included in the filenames (meaning multiple "osc add"s) or should it be <project>.tar.gz, debian.tar.gz and <project>.dsc which are overwritten and updated?	15:33
X-Fade	Jaffa: Also that example. Check what lbt did there.	15:34
Jaffa	Hmm, OK.	15:34
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: see hiemanshu 's link above	15:37
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: thanks, found it in the end	15:39
Jaffa	X-Fade: So is there really any difference between <package>_<version>.debian.tar.gz and <package>_<version>.diff.gz (if the latter only contained the patch). Will OBS handle both?	15:40
* javispedro feels like he needs to audition for the Fringe show after reading quim's ddp f.m.c post		15:41
DocScrutinizer	lardman: yeah, updated my application a bit, as it's probably a hard job to evaluate 500+ applications, s maybe the first sentence should be a eyecatcher	15:41
frals	javispedro: link?	15:42
MohammadAG	any emails sent out?	15:42
javispedro	frals, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24006&postcount=126	15:43
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frals	javispedro: ty	15:43
javispedro	it was quoted a few lines above also	15:43
RST38h	javispedro: what post?	15:44
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RST38h	javispedro: there is another post saying that you need to be an insane physics professor from alternative dimenion in order to get an N950?	15:45
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javispedro	RST38h, no, I just find the use of the word fringe ... interesting.	15:45
RST38h	Ah	15:46
* lardman is currently looking at fringe lines in interferometric data		15:46
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* SpeedEvil is currently cutting his fringe.		15:48
* MohammadAG wonders what he is on a scale of 0-3		15:48
DocScrutinizer	~dict fringe	15:48
infobot	Dictionary 'fringe' (1 of 10): a part of the city far removed from the center; "they built a factory on the outskirts of the city" .	15:48
javispedro	see, candidates in the fringe.	15:48
lardman	hmm, how does that definition work	15:48
lardman	doens't even contain the word fringe in the quote	15:49
RST38h	~dict dict	15:49
infobot	could not find definition for dict	15:49
javispedro	~dict infobot	15:49
infobot	Dictionary 'infobot' <chat> A {bot} that serves as a common database of information (often noteworthy {URL}s) for users on a {chat} system. Infobots often have a simple {chatbot interface}, responding to key-phrases, as well as to direct queries. Here, in a real conversation, the bot Purl's first response is triggered by the phrase "just tell me", and its second response is triggered by being directly asked "perlfunc?": <eesh> can someone tell me what: ...	15:49
RST38h	~dict duct	15:49
infobot	Dictionary 'duct' (1 of 5): \Duct\ (d[u^]kt), n. [L. ductus a leading, conducting, conduit, fr. ducere, ductum, to lead. See {Duke}, and cf. {Douche}.] 1. Any tube or canal by which a fluid or other substance is conducted or conveyed. [1913 Webster] 2. (Anat.) One of the vessels of an animal body by which the products of glandular secretion are conveyed to their destination. [1913 Webster] 3. (Bot.) A large, elongated cell, either round or ...	15:49
SpeedEvil	~dict duck	15:50
infobot	Dictionary 'duck' (3 of 16): Zip code(s): 25063 ;; small wild or domesticated web-footed broad-billed swimming bird usually having a depressed body and short legs ;; flesh of a duck (domestic or wild).	15:50
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Khertan	tic ... tac ... tic ... tac	15:50
lardman	what is the zip code stuff doing in there?	15:50
lardman	those definitions are pretty crap	15:51
RST38h	~dict cthulhu	15:51
DocScrutinizer	lardman: somebody found it funny to add all US zipcodes as factoids	15:51
infobot	could not find definition for cthulhu	15:51
RST38h	Gooood	15:51
lardman	DocScrutinizer: oh, I see, sort of	15:51
RST38h	~dict 21075	15:51
infobot	Dictionary '21075' -- U.S. ZIP code Population (2000): 19449 Housing Units (2000): 7679 Land area (2000): 13.738824 sq. miles (35.583389 sq. km) Water area (2000): 0.000000 sq. miles (0.000000 sq. km) Total area (2000): 13.738824 sq. miles (35.583389 sq. km) Located within: Maryland (MD) Location: 39.197119 N, 76.751781 W	15:51
Khertan	~dict 60890	15:51
infobot	could not find definition for 60890	15:51
Khertan	hihi ...	15:51
lardman	~dict 25063	15:52
RST38h	OMFG, this looks like a TIGER database	15:52
infobot	Dictionary '25063' -- U.S. ZIP code Municipality (1990): DUCK, West Virginia All ZIPs for this municipality (1990): 25063 Population (2000): 1150 Housing Units (2000): 636 Land area (2000): 65.398905 sq. miles (169.382380 sq. km) Water area (2000): 0.000000 sq. miles (0.000000 sq. km) Total area (2000): 65.398905 sq. miles (169.382380 sq. km) Located within: West Virginia (WV) Location: 38.583094 N, 80.940560 W	15:52
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javispedro	either way, the way he talks seems like he found most of the applications crap	15:52
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lardman	javispedro: who's that?	15:52
javispedro	so chances do not bode well.	15:52
javispedro	lardman, read the entire f.m.c thread	15:52
Khertan	javispedro, ... who qgil ?	15:52
javispedro	or the last two pages	15:52
RST38h	javispedro: URL?	15:52
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Khertan	javispedro, application could not be exiting ... limited by qml :)	15:53
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javispedro	RST38h, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597&page=11 and following pages	15:53
lardman	javispedro: ah I see what you mean, I thought you meant applications on the device, not for the device	15:53
javispedro	ah, I see the confusion.	15:53
edheldil	~dict 90210	15:53
javispedro	yes, talking about "essays"	15:53
infobot	Dictionary '90210' -- U.S. ZIP code Municipality (1990): BEVERLY HILLS, California All ZIPs for this municipality (1990): 90210 90211 90212 Population (2000): 21396 Housing Units (2000): 9166 Land area (2000): 9.350943 sq. miles (24.218830 sq. km) Water area (2000): 0.046341 sq. miles (0.120022 sq. km) Total area (2000): 9.397284 sq. miles (24.338852 sq. km) Located within: California (CA) Location: 34.088808 N, 118.406125 W	15:53
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edheldil	ahhh ... :)	15:54
flux	the bot is missing the coordinates for a polygon that covers the area.	15:54
DocScrutinizer	btw scratch my comments about zip factoids, though correct it doesn't apply for ~dict as ~dict is using a web interface or sth to find miriam webster(?) entries about a searchword	15:54
MrOpposite	If I want to develop things to the n900, is that easy to do? (as in is there usable documentation?)	15:54
DocScrutinizer	flux: the bot is missing nuttin, that's the dictionary referenced by ~dict	15:55
DocScrutinizer	and please stop spamming the chan with unrelated infobot queries	15:56
DocScrutinizer	~query	15:56
infobot	talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)	15:56
RST38h	javispedro: oh well	15:56
javispedro	though one thing is clear: the 250 headcount is arbitrary and probably prone to modification. who knows if it is less =)	15:57
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Why is it clear?	15:57
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SpeedEvil	javispedro: I thought it represented a number of devices allocated.	15:57
javispedro	"... depend on the amout of devices available"	15:57
lardman	javispedro: well some of the things he mentioned as not being good: "saying you will develop unnamed and specified apps", "wanting to do a review", etc. seem pretty self evident I'd have thought	15:58
RST38h	javispedro: I prefer not to think too much into this (including the fact that half of my suggested projects are proprietary)	15:58
Khertan	wait and see	15:58
javispedro	RST38h, probably the best.	15:58
RST38h	Exactly	15:58
DocScrutinizer	wtf is a proprietary project here?	15:59
RST38h	In the very worst case, I will simply by an Android device and forget about the whole thing	15:59
RST38h	Doc: Source code not open	15:59
SpeedEvil	Yeah - going through every line of text for nuances that may result from the spacebar sticking is silly.	15:59
DocScrutinizer	why would you want to do that?	15:59
javispedro	SpeedEvil, wrong channel again? =)	15:59
SpeedEvil	javispedro: ?	16:00
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, most companies haven't embraced Open Source yet..	16:00
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Don't think so.	16:00
javispedro	ah ok	16:00
* javispedro brb		16:00
SpeedEvil	I think the idea is that closed projects should be applied for through the commercial side.	16:00
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crashanddie	Wait, what?	16:01
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: I'm aware of that, but why would RST38h apply for a meego develdev if he had or worked for a company that is going to develop commercial (aka proprietary) stuff?	16:01
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: none so far	16:01
RST38h	Doc: Lots of very practical reasons	16:01
RST38h	Doc: First, none of this stuff is commercial (giving it away for free)	16:01
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I wrote a small but to the point application. I wonder if I am even in cat 0 :/	16:01
RST38h	Doc: Secondly, half of it actually comes with an open source	16:01
RST38h	Doc: Thirdly, representing myself not some company	16:01
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, I can see the rationale about ruling out closed-source stuff. closed-source -> proprietary commercial -> go for launchpad DDP	16:03
* jonwil is going to clone the date-time control panel		16:03
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: \o/ please also clone the unbearable time/date selector that looks and works like a slot machine - mere random to hit the right setting :-P	16:04
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jonwil	Do you mean the city selector?	16:08
Jaffa	jonwil: If you could make it with time selection like Harmattan, that might be quite cool	16:10
jonwil	well my plan is to create a 1:1 clone of libcpdatetime.so and possibly also libhildon-time-zone-chooser0.so	16:11
jonwil	then from there we can expand	16:11
jonwil	and make it better	16:11
Jaffa	:)	16:12
Jaffa	X-Fade: BTW, did you have an answer as to whether I should be using home:Jaffa or home:jaffa, which are different & separater?	16:12
Jaffa	s/ter/te/	16:12
infobot	Jaffa meant: X-Fade: BTW, did you have an answer as to whether I should be using home:Jaffa or home:jaffa, which are different & separate?	16:12
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crashanddie	holy crap	16:17
vi__	where?	16:17
crashanddie	I just received a commit	16:17
crashanddie	1 character	16:17
vi__	?	16:18
crashanddie	The guy has been working a full month on massively crazy bug	16:18
crashanddie	the bugfix? 1 character.	16:18
SpeedEvil	:)	16:18
vi__	?	16:18
vi__	what was the character?	16:18
vi__	;	16:18
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alterego	crashanddie: I had a similar bug I fixed a while ago :D	16:20
alterego	1 character	16:20
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alterego	Was it a j instead of an i?	16:20
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crashanddie	<send target="explorer.id" targettype="'xexplorer'" data="'com.consistent.ccenter.instance.phone_state'" namelist="instance_id state"/>	16:20
crashanddie	<send target="explorer.id" targettype="'x-explorer'" data="'com.consistent.ccenter.instance.phone_state'" namelist="instance_id state"/>	16:20
alterego	Hah	16:21
alterego	A - symbol aye ..	16:21
jonwil	anyone know of an example of how to write a hildon control panel?	16:21
RST38h	I have got some code for it, a moment	16:22
RST38h	No, just desktop applet, sorry :(	16:22
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jonwil	cssu has some control panels	16:23
jonwil	those should help	16:23
lardman	nice, we can finally access the map data from code	16:23
alterego	lardman: ?	16:24
lardman	http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qtmobility/location-overview.html	16:24
lardman	am just browsing that page trying to work out whether the Qt location stuff works in a similar way to liblocation	16:24
lardman	at least it should be easy enough to add new data providers for the field line stuff	16:25
lardman	etc	16:25
alterego	Ah, right	16:26
alterego	Yeah, I'm familiar with the mobility APIs	16:26
lardman	not many positioning methods in that enum though: http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qtmobility/qgeopositioninfosource.html	16:26
alterego	Got the developer.nokia.com site is getting more and more like msdn every time I look at it ..	16:26
alterego	Just replace the "NOKIA" logo in the top left with "Microsoft" ..	16:26
lardman	I've not yet spotted whether you can set a range as well as a time for updates to be sent to your app	16:27
lardman	alterego: yeah	16:27
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: (city selector?) I meant the ugly nonsensical kinetic scrolling rulers you get when you for instance define the start time of a new event in calendar	16:28
alterego	Oh, those "touch friendly lists" ..	16:28
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jonwil	well once I clone the applet, someone can make it better :)	16:29
lardman	hmm that is somewhat worrisome, I can't see how to choose which of the not-gps methods will be used (fine for the future, we add more items to the enum) with the current implementation (e.g. country code from modem, cell tower id should be options)	16:30
DocScrutinizer	yeah, the maximum pita I could imagine for such a thing	16:30
SpeedEvil	http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23820&postcount=20 - qgil	16:30
DocScrutinizer	lardman: hu?	16:30
SpeedEvil	'As for today, N950 and N9 have exactly the same security policy, and in fact are both wide open.'	16:31
Khertan	https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17034 <<<< grrr	16:31
povbot	Bug 17034: was not found.	16:31
lardman	DocScrutinizer: see link above to the Qt Mobility location stuff	16:31
Khertan	oups ... wrong windows	16:31
DocScrutinizer	aaah QtM - meh	16:31
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: LOL?	16:32
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alterego	Is there a list of pre-installed apps for Harmattan?	16:32
lardman	does anyone have a link to the Harmattan image package list url handy?	16:33
lardman	lol	16:33
Khertan	lardman, on harmattan-dev.nokia.com	16:33
* lardman is looking for more the location library backend		16:33
lardman	thanks Khertan	16:33
Khertan	there is a link in the bottom to explain diff with fremantle	16:33
Khertan	and so the list of package	16:33
lardman	just what I was after, thanks	16:34
lardman	so liblocationextras or libqtm-location it must be then	16:36
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alterego	Hah, http://maemo.nokia.com/	16:36
* X-Fade wonders why he can't chroot into his nice Harmattan root.		16:36
lardman	hmm, looks like liblocationextras supplies wrapper over DBUS call to get country code, but I don't see anything about cell id	16:37
alterego	X-Fade: how long until Harmattan obs is up-and-running? :)	16:37
X-Fade	alterego: Well, that is one of the issues :)	16:38
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Missing shell?	16:38
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X-Fade	Jaffa: It complains about missing /bin/bash, but obviously it is there.	16:38
alterego	X-Fade: is there anything currently available for us? I can help out if needs be.	16:38
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Try "chroot dir /bin/sh"?	16:38
lardman	ah ok libcellular-qt supplies callback for cell changes, good, at least that is built in	16:38
Jaffa	X-Fade: Architecture difference and/or perms?	16:38
* Jaffa tries to work out what the status of his package is on COBS after adding some build plans. Where do logs/statuses/queues appear?		16:39
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X-Fade	Jaffa: Yeah, it is an armel root.	16:40
X-Fade	Jaffa: But binfmt should just pick that up.	16:40
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alterego	Urgh, really need to clean up laptop.	16:41
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alterego	20M left :/	16:41
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* SpeedEvil passes alterego a vacuum cleaner.		16:42
alterego	I think the rest of this afternoon will be spent cleaning up my laptop and preparing it for a reinstallation.	16:42
alterego	Though I need to check to see if Ubuntu 11.04 supports 3G tethering yet ..	16:42
* SpeedEvil just wrote /etc/ppp/peers/whatever		16:43
rm_work	alterego: it does	16:43
* SpeedEvil sometimes is hesitant to learn new things.		16:43
rm_work	alterego: at least over USB, it was a no-brainer	16:43
Jaffa	X-Fade: binfmt not hardfp aware or something?	16:43
alterego	rm_work: Specifically 11.04?	16:43
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rm_work	alterego: definitely did it on 11.04, also did it on 10.10	16:44
alterego	rm_work: because it didn't work, works fine for me on 10.10, but not under 11.04	16:44
rm_work	and the one before that	16:44
alterego	Right, I'm talking specifically about 11.04, which is stopping me from updating ..	16:44
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jonwil	Is there a list of various text strings somewhere? i.e. how can I tell just what the string dati_fi_24_clock matches?	16:47
Jaffa	X-Fade: Thoughts, when you have a chance, on the https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=attitude&project=home%3Ajaffa&repository=Debian_6.0 failure. It doesn't look like the kind of failure I'd expect.	16:49
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X-Fade	Jaffa: Hmm so it doesn't like the debian tarball in the dsc.	16:51
peetah	hi all	16:51
peetah	trying to compile mame 0.143 for N900	16:51
peetah	and I have this error:	16:51
peetah	{standard input}:16125: Error: unknown pseudo-op: `.perso'	16:51
peetah	does it ring a bell to anyone ?	16:52
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peetah	0.142 was compiling fine, but it started to generate this kind of error since 0.142u5	16:52
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peetah	from what I have found, this type of errors seems to be a compiler bug	16:55
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peetah	is there a documented way to update the compiler included in scratchbox with a more recent version that may have this issue fixed?	16:56
lardman	change optimisation flags?	16:57
peetah	lardman: that's the first thing I tried, removing all the useless flags, but it did not change anything	16:58
lardman	hmm	16:58
lardman	I can't find .perso on Google, any idea what it does?	16:58
peetah	nope: I also did my homework before asking ;)	16:59
lardman	:)	16:59
lardman	I'm afraid I don't know off hand how to change the GCC version	16:59
lardman	one last option is to see if you can disable some part of the compilation, I don't know where the error occurs, building which files, etc	17:00
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peetah	a file called inptport.c, which seems related to input obviously	17:01
lardman	it doesn't have asm in it does it?	17:01
peetah	therefore hard to remove from the compilation process	17:01
lardman	sure	17:01
peetah	no, every ASM is disabled by an internal flag	17:01
peetah	at least, it should be disabled	17:02
Jaffa	X-Fade: Ah, lbt's dsc has Format: 3.0 at the top	17:03
lardman	peetah: sorry no more ideas here then	17:03
X-Fade	Jaffa: Ahm yeah. duh :)	17:03
peetah	I have the diff between the compilable version and the non-compilable one, but I'm afraid I do not have the required skills to hunt the guilty changes	17:04
lardman	peetah: perhaps try the -devel list for wider exposure?	17:04
* alterego boggles why something like "inptport" would be abbreviated for the sake of one letter.		17:04
peetah	ok thanks lardman	17:04
lardman	peetah: you really want to save the intermediate file and see what generates that pseudo instruction	17:04
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peetah	aloisiojr: because mame devs are a bit obsessed by the 8-letter limits for file names	17:05
lardman	you never know when someone might want to edit your files under DOS ;)	17:05
peetah	alterego: because mame devs are a bit obsessed by the 8-letter limits for file names	17:05
alterego	Heh	17:05
peetah	aloisiojr: sorry, wrong completion	17:05
aloisiojr	peetah: np	17:05
Jaffa	X-Fade: So that's the difference between debian.tar.gz and diff.gz.	17:06
X-Fade	Jaffa: http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0	17:06
alterego	Makes sense :)	17:06
Jaffa	X-Fade: I'm getting the feeling that a package will have to be duplicated to target Fremantle and Harmattan. But, weirdly, it seems build targets are cross-project?	17:06
Jaffa	X-Fade: Unsurprisingly, not easy to find from the Debian file format documentation :-(	17:06
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X-Fade	Jaffa: You can have targets spanning all your projects. But you can also disable/enable them per package (repository tab)	17:07
Jaffa	X-Fade: Ah, cool	17:07
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Yay, it worked better :-)	17:08
X-Fade	Jaffa: boom crash?	17:08
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divan	Is it possible to create own Network connections in Maemo? I mean, the connections which are shown in Network Connections list. I.e. I manually create route via usb0 and want to use this connection, but network management API do not understand it and asks for some network connection to be active.	17:09
lardman	yes, though how it's done I don't know	17:09
Jaffa	X-Fade: Yeah, but that's cos mud2 (need a new backronym) hasn't done the debian/rules patching yet	17:09
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lardman	there was a pseudo connection used for the Bluetooth network stuff iirc	17:09
lardman	imght be on the wiki under that bt pan, etc	17:10
divan	lardman, don't you remember the package name?	17:10
divan	lardman, thanks	17:10
lardman	not a package, you probably need to create a conf file or do some DBus trickery	17:10
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dbk	everybody	17:18
SpeedEvil	I wonder if aegis was designed and specified well before the realisation that meego was not going forward at nokia.	17:18
SpeedEvil	Hence its implementation 'properly' on the n9 isn't now a priority.	17:18
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SpeedEvil	Which could of course be a good thing.	17:19
SpeedEvil	s/could/is/	17:19
infobot	SpeedEvil meant: Which is of course be a good thing.	17:19
jonwil	what is aegis anyway?	17:20
SpeedEvil	It's a 'trusted platform' type thing.	17:20
jonwil	oh ok	17:20
DocScrutinizer	it is trusted platform	17:20
SpeedEvil	In principle it could lock the n9 down quite badly.	17:20
DocScrutinizer	incl all the gory bits	17:20
SpeedEvil	How it's actually configured is an interesting question - quim has said that at the moment 950/9 is 'wide open'	17:21
flux	at least it's is capability-based, instead of simple all-or-nothing based on signature	17:21
DocScrutinizer	yeah, you can do whatever you want, on your device, "but not while running our SW"	17:21
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: That was specifically referring to the privileges granted apps	17:21
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: Apps from the community repositories I thought.	17:22
SpeedEvil	I suppose - true - it might imply you can't compile stuff on device which would be an annoyance, as well as significant ohter restrictions.	17:22
dbk	sip has recently stopped working on my n900. i have googled for similar problems, and found a problem with /usr/share/osso-rtcom/sip.profile, which i have corrected, but sip connections continue to fail. is this the right channel to solicit help with this problem?	17:24
* DocScrutinizer recalls his question about "signed bootloader concept" back when in that #meego-conference, and the answer which was along the line "that's not covered by meego, every manufacturer is free to do what ever he likes" :-S		17:24
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Apps installed by the system (once "allow untrusted sources is ticked") if we're getting really accurate ;-)	17:25
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: yes.	17:25
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Jaffa	SpeedEvil: MohammadAG had problems executing arbitrary executables scp'ed on to the RDA device because it wasn't installed through the package manager.	17:25
SpeedEvil	Even in PR1.0 you needed to enable extras	17:25
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: Depends what happens if you turn that off, which hasn't I don't think been answered.	17:26
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: isn't that scary? :-(	17:26
SpeedEvil	Turning it off and on for a dev device is annoying, if you can develop stuff for users easily that will not need to turn it on/off.	17:27
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Indeed	17:27
SpeedEvil	Or if turning it off does not break purchased content	17:27
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SpeedEvil	But only annoying, not fatal.	17:27
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: A little, but as long as one can still do everything if one really wants and it's just a basic malware protection...	17:27
dbk	is there a different channel i should join to get help with an n900 problem?	17:28
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DocScrutinizer	obviously it's way more than that	17:28
SpeedEvil	dbk: here is good	17:28
Jaffa	Although that raises a question as to whether the N9 will be compatible with any existing DRM schemes. I can't imagine content producers going out of their way to produce Harmattan-specific video contents	17:28
SpeedEvil	dbk: It's just conversation about the future at teh moment - the n900 is the present.	17:28
SpeedEvil	For at least the next week.	17:28
dbk	well i want to fix my n900 now...	17:28
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: We still don't know how it's working in practice; only how the framework works and what it could be used for	17:28
SpeedEvil	dbk: What's up with it?	17:28
SpeedEvil	dbk: And where are you?	17:28
dbk	sip has stopped working...	17:29
* dbk is in usa		17:29
SpeedEvil	Ah - not likely a hw issue then.	17:29
dbk	no it is definitely sw. sip had been working and now it does not.	17:29
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: quote from manual: ""to disable these debugging tools, simply switch off developer mode in settings. Do NOT uninstall the tools" (OWTTE)	17:29
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: manuals have been wrong and misleading in the past.	17:30
dbk	i googled and found some problems with my sip.profile which i corrected, but sip connections continue to fail	17:30
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: who knows	17:30
DocScrutinizer	dbk: have you done a apt-get autoremove ?	17:31
DocScrutinizer	or dist-upgrade?	17:31
* lardman heads back home as parents are dropping in		17:31
lardman	catch you all tomorrow	17:31
dbk	i did some dist-upgrades but not an autoremove	17:31
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DocScrutinizer	that's it	17:31
dbk	ok i will try	17:31
dbk	thanks. i'll let you know how it works out	17:31
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DocScrutinizer	dbk: check http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	17:32
DocScrutinizer	and the thread on tmo...	17:32
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DocScrutinizer	# autoremove kills rtcom-accounts-voip-support	17:32
dbk	well then autoremove does not sound like it will solve my problem.	17:34
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dbk	which thread on tmo are you referring to?	17:34
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dbk	apt-get dist-upgrade fails due to unmet dependencies for sysvinit-utils and busybox	17:35
DocScrutinizer	dbk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70875&highlight=sip	17:37
khertan	do not dist-upgrade !!!	17:40
dbk	ok well i did an apt-get install --reinstall rtcom-accounts-voip-support. now rebooting device. (did not dist-upgrade, but have apt-get upgrade-ed before)	17:41
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dbk	ok well now when attempting a sip call i get "unable to establish connection." wifi is working...	17:46
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* khertan just got a mail from Nokia ... think was about n950 ... and ... no ... it s about contest for creating java apps for s40 ...		17:51
alterego	Hah	17:51
SpeedEvil	khertan: Got the same one, same reaction :)	17:51
dbk	it seems that the files *.novoip have been installed and sip.profile has been symlinked to a newly created subdirectory called voip-support	17:52
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dbk	DocScrutinizer: you still there?	17:56
alterego	I wonder if they're using mafw for media still	17:58
alterego	Or maybe it's grillo now	17:58
macmaN	khertan: lol	17:58
macmaN	im at meego meetup in kiasma helsinki right now	17:58
macmaN	all sorts n9 and n950 promotion going on	17:59
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macmaN	few scarce words about meege ce n900	17:59
alterego	Heh	17:59
macmaN	and now pyside time!	17:59
* dbk would just like to fix sip on his n900		18:00
dbk	one of the main reasons i got the n900 was for sip and now it has stopped working	18:00
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macmaN	is there some tutorial for sip? it sounds like its something i want, but im not entirely sure how it works	18:01
dbk	macmaN: dunno about a tutorial. it's pretty easy to set up an account once you have registered for one.	18:01
khertan	macmaN, to be honest MeeGo CE on n900 isn't perfect ... but it s working !	18:02
macmaN	khertan: yeah i watched the loooong youtube video	18:02
macmaN	for the summer release	18:02
dbk	but, unfortunately, for some reason sip (which had been working fine) has stopped working on my device	18:02
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macmaN	email-following like 80 threads on tmo, i think im up to date with most of the stuffs going on	18:02
dbk	DocScrutinizer seemed to have some knowledge of the situation, but he seems to have disappeared in the last few minutes	18:03
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Macer	argh!	18:03
DocScrutinizer	no, I never disappear, I just may have extended RTT	18:04
dbk	i've been considering reflashing the device as a last resort.	18:04
Macer	this damn g 2	18:04
dbk	DocScrutinizer i reinstalled that pkg, rebooted, but device still says "unable to establish connection" when i attempt a sip call	18:04
Macer	argh!dxcf	18:05
DocScrutinizer	dbk: sorry, I shared all my knowledge about that particular fault reason on that tmo post. if your symptoms are different, then probably also the cause is	18:06
dbk	seems i will have to resort to a flash of the device :(	18:06
DocScrutinizer	dbk: sometimes that helps. I can't analyze anything about your particular problem anyway with a ""unable to establish connection" when i attempt a sip call""	18:07
khertan	macmaN, i install it on an n900 prefer test it myself ... specially my apps :)	18:07
dbk	btw are you referring to the maemo.org thread? you did not share a link for tmo	18:07
DocScrutinizer	not enough input to make any reasonable decision	18:07
DocScrutinizer	uh?	18:08
dbk	i know what you mean. it does not give much info for debugging	18:08
macmaN	khertan: right, but i think the exact instructions to make uboot work with kp47 was just posted a few days ago	18:08
cloudyLights	khertan: in python hao can I tell if a var wasnt given a value	18:08
cloudyLights	?	18:08
macmaN	i havent had the resource to figure that out myself before	18:08
DocScrutinizer	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70875&highlight=sip	18:08
cloudyLights	I mean: if I didnt declare VAR1 ; set VAR1 to have the value 1	18:09
DocScrutinizer	dbk: ^^^^	18:09
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alterego	Created columbus gitorious and obs projects :)	18:09
dbk	ok... i was confused. not familiar with the abbreviation for talk.mamo.org. thought you were referring to t-mobil	18:09
DocScrutinizer	dbk: check you sip account settings. make sure you're registering correctly	18:09
DocScrutinizer	dbk: (green dot)	18:10
dbk	DocScrutinizer: the settings are fine. they were working until recently.	18:10
hiemanshu	cloudyLights: if you havent set a value, it should be NULL	18:10
hiemanshu	alterego: w00t :D	18:11
dbk	where does the green dot show up? under which menu/config screen?	18:11
burchr	hiemanshu: me!	18:11
burchr	bah	18:11
hiemanshu	burchr: ?	18:11
dbk	under accounts they show as "enabled"	18:11
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w00t__	stupid alternate nicks ;)	18:11
hiemanshu	w00t__: ah ok :D	18:12
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khertan	cloudyLights, you mean if a object didn't have a attribute ?	18:14
khertan	hasattr(yourobject,'attributename')	18:14
jonwil	ok, it looks like libcpdatetime.so shouldn't be that hard to clone. Making HildonDateButton and HildonTimeButton not suck on the other hand...	18:14
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cloudyLights	khertan: nm was told at #python not to do that	18:16
cloudyLights	and set var1 to None	18:16
dbk	is there a good tutorial on flashing the n900? i especially want to make sure to not to miss any important data when i back it up.	18:17
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khertan	cloudyLights, depends on use case	18:18
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jonwil	big thankyou to whoever wrote libhildon-extras1-time-zone-chooser-dev :)	18:20
* jonwil wonders what other undocumented maemo APIs have been reverse engineered by the community...		18:21
ThreeM	dbk, yes, search the wiki for maemo flasher	18:21
dbk	ThreeM to which wiki do you refer?	18:22
ThreeM	http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:22
ThreeM	that wiki :)	18:22
dbk	k thanks!	18:22
dbk	hopefully that will fix my sip problem	18:23
ThreeM	np	18:23
hiemanshu	maemo != windows :P	18:24
ThreeM	hrhr	18:25
ThreeM	for non linux gurus maybe its the fastest way	18:25
ThreeM	:)	18:25
* dbk is has been using linux for a pretty long time		18:26
hiemanshu	ThreeM: I know, I was kidding :P	18:26
chem\|st	dbk: the you know what you need to backup...	18:27
chem\|st	s/the/then/	18:27
infobot	chem\|st meant: dbk: then you know what you need to backup...	18:27
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dbk	chem\|sh well, i've been using linux for a long time, but new to maemo/n900 and it is not quite what i am used to from debian (but pretty close)	18:28
chem\|st	dbk: pretty close is the right expr.!	18:28
dbk	but no cigar, as the expression goes...	18:29
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chem\|st	dbk: you need your $home and maybe some /etc if you modded, the rest is fitted by "backup"	18:29
dbk	i actually even met linus at linuxworld in s.j. in about 1999	18:29
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SpeedEvil	jonwil - GPS raw protocol	18:30
chem\|st	dbk: neat, I know knopper (knoppix) in person and am part of the unix working group where the LinuxTag(R) was born in	18:31
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* chem\|st pulls the zipper up again		18:31
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dbk	so "backup" does not save $home? that is odd...	18:32
chem\|st	dbk: apart of this nasty PA and some other stuff (which is all nasty on a desktop as well) it is pretty much etch	18:33
chem\|st	dbk: not all of it, settings and stuff is saved but mods in tracker conf and stuff is not	18:33
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chem\|st	dbk: so what you changed by hand in $home is not within "backup" and just in case backup misses on some things important to me I backup $home myself	18:34
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dbk	what about .mydocs etc	18:35
chem\|st	MyDocs is a different partition	18:35
chem\|st	if you flash only the root image MyDocs isnt touched	18:35
chem\|st	flashing it vanilla you need to backup MyDocs as well	18:36
dbk	which do you suggest? i am trying to repair borked sip functionality?	18:37
chem\|st	dbk: pls elaborate	18:37
DocScrutinizer	flash COMBINED aka rootfs	18:37
hiemanshu	you dont need to flash vanilla for that	18:37
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: his sip stopped working	18:37
DocScrutinizer	~flashing	18:38
infobot	from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:38
DocScrutinizer	has it all	18:38
DocScrutinizer	just read the WHOLE page	18:38
DocScrutinizer	info bits are somewhat scattered	18:38
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DocScrutinizer	improvements welcome	18:39
chem\|st	dbk: yeah just root img and you should be good	18:39
chem\|st	dbk: BUT have you tried removing the battery at first? some hardware needs a "remove battery" reset to do good again	18:39
DocScrutinizer	nah, SIP is borked	18:40
bindi	hey	18:40
bindi	what was that CSSU tweak to enable some gpu acceleration for the menu scrolling or something like that	18:40
bindi	cant remember exactly but I cant find it anymore	18:40
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: he did a dist-upgrade	18:40
dbk	i did not do a dist-upgrade. i did an apt-get upgrade.	18:40
DocScrutinizer	aah, k	18:41
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dbk	but at some point, something i installed must have messed up my sip settings or something like that.	18:41
* ruskie tries to recall how to make his own fiasco root image...		18:41
DocScrutinizer	whatever, flashing rootfs should fix it	18:41
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: ouch	18:41
DocScrutinizer	if not, then your accounts are borked	18:41
dbk	ok i am doing a backup atm.	18:41
chem\|st	dbk: NEVER EVER dist-upgrade...	18:41
DocScrutinizer	dbk: nevertheless I'd try with a new account	18:42
ruskie	unless you know what you are doing ;)	18:42
dbk	is it possible to backup to other than the memory card? mine is tiny and does not have enough room.	18:42
* SpeedEvil wonders if the camera uses the mag+accel to deshake.		18:42
chem\|st	dbk: just for the records^^	18:42
DocScrutinizer	backup to eMMC	18:42
DocScrutinizer	aka "phone"	18:43
dbk	DocScrutinizer: what do you mean "try with a new account" do you mean get a new sip account?	18:43
chem\|st	dbk: not enough room? my backups are like 32MB and 80MB with sent-emails (which I easily moved to the imap folder and be good again)	18:43
DocScrutinizer	yeah, try to set up your acount from scratch	18:43
dbk	DocScrutinizer: backing up to the phone will be retained with a rootfs flash?	18:43
DocScrutinizer	dbk: SIP problems quite frequently are outside of device	18:43
chem\|st	dbk: no	18:43
chem\|st	dbk: MyDocs is not touched if you flash rootfs only	18:44
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, it's likely: accel ? exposure_time/=4	18:44
DocScrutinizer	dbk: yes, eMMC is untouched when you flash COMBINED image	18:44
dbk	chem\|st: my card is less than a gig.. it came out of my garmin gps.	18:44
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I was more meaning that you can use the accel + magnetometer to work out orientation and accelleration of the phone. This can be used to correct shake	18:44
DocScrutinizer	MyDocs aka "phone" is on eMMC	18:44
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: of video.	18:45
chem\|st	dbk: delete your account "on the phone" and set it up with "new account" button	18:45
ShadowJK	oh..	18:45
DocScrutinizer	dbk: you'll be amazed how small "backups" are	18:45
DocScrutinizer	usually way less than 100MB	18:45
chem\|st	dbk: as I said 32-34MB with 300+ contacts	18:45
dbk	chem\|st which account are you telling me to delete? sip account or maemo user account?	18:45
chem\|st	sip account	18:46
dbk	DocScrutinizer: well i tried to backup to SD card and it did not fit.	18:46
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DocScrutinizer	:-/	18:46
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chem\|st	just like you delete ICQ MSN Jabber or anything else	18:46
Macer	nokia stock is in the toilet	18:46
DocScrutinizer	darn that has to be a small SD card	18:46
DocScrutinizer	Macer: \o/	18:46
chem\|st	with the built-in stuff and not on the cmd-line	18:46
dbk	DocScrutinizer: yes it came out of my garmin gps.	18:46
DocScrutinizer	Macer: did trollop say a word?	18:46
Macer	if he did it would be "bankrupt"	18:47
DocScrutinizer	Macer: how much?	18:47
Macer	what did nokia open up at in the before time? like $2 or so?	18:47
dbk	chem	18:47
dbk	chem\|st: what is the reasoning for deleting the sip account(s)?	18:47
* chem\|st should buy nokia stock		18:47
Macer	right now they are hovering around 6	18:47
DocScrutinizer	hehe	18:48
Macer	at their peak they were $56	18:48
DocScrutinizer	$ or EUR?	18:48
Macer	US	18:48
chem\|st	dbk: to set it up again "MAAAAAAN", have you tried to turn it off and on again?!	18:48
DocScrutinizer	ouch	18:48
chem\|st	get 2 for a BTC	18:48
Macer	they were $15 in may of 2010	18:48
chem\|st	no 3 actually	18:48
Macer	and are now 6.39	18:49
hiemanshu	and trollop wants to pay M$ instead of harnessing the power of the community	18:49
Macer	that is a freefall	18:49
macmaN	'	18:49
dbk	i have rebooted the device several times. not sure why i would want to set up sip again. all accounts were previously working. no problem afaict with the sip settings.	18:49
chem\|st	after being said dead it is no wonder is it?	18:49
DocScrutinizer	dbk: if you are not willing to set up the sip accounts again, then we probably can't help	18:49
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chem\|st	dbk: listen mate, it does not matter if it was working before as it doesn't now, so save my time and the hell delete it or flash it, we are or I am trying to help you getting it to work without a reflash, if and only if you want to try it for your own sake	18:51
dbk	DocScrutinizer: i am not unwilling, but i have a number of accounts set up and i would like to understand why i should do something before making a big effort to setup all accounts again	18:51
DocScrutinizer	dbk: visit your SIP provider's website to check for recent changes in URLs etc, make sure you got your password and account name, the just delete the account on N900 and recreate from scratch. Then see if the green dor for correct registration show up next to battery icon upper left	18:51
dbk	its not that i don't want to do it, but i would like to know what it will accomplish before i do it.	18:52
Jaffa	X-Fade: Testing the first feature complete version of mud2 (MeeGo Unified Distribution ;-)) on Debian_6.0 target on COBS	18:52
DocScrutinizer	dbk: also you mustn't delete all accounts, just the one that doesn't work anymore	18:52
chem\|st	dbk: it will fix borked settings "MAYBE"	18:52
DocScrutinizer	or - if you got several accounts with several providers and all of them stopped working all of a sudden - it's most probably an issue of your wifi accesspoint or sth	18:53
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chem\|st	dbk: you may have a look in the "original" settings file or save it somewhere when it is working again, to compare which settings get borked	18:53
dbk	none of the sip accounts seem to be working. yes, the "green" dot is there. i still do not believe there is a problem with the sip settings. something, some package changed something. i had to edit sip.profile because TEL capability was removed.	18:53
chem\|st	dbk: my icq account gets its port borked once in a while, the GUI shows an empty port but the actual settings file shows something like "-2893562137563"	18:54
dbk	DocScrutinizer not an issue with wifi. i can read email on the device...	18:54
DocScrutinizer	dbk: when the green dot is there, then probably the account settings are mostly ok	18:55
DocScrutinizer	dbk: email mean absolutely nothing for SIP	18:55
chem\|st	??? ok I do not get it... the accounts are logged in?	18:55
DocScrutinizer	SIP is UDP, not TCP	18:55
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dbk	DocScrutinizer: i was able to make sip calls from my laptop's sipclient	18:55
DocScrutinizer	dbk: also SIP needs inbound traffic while email is local-originated service	18:56
DocScrutinizer	dbk: now we'Re speaking	18:56
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dbk	as i say, sip works from the laptop	18:56
chem\|st	but you can neither recieve calls nor make calls over SIP?	18:56
chem\|st	dbk: uninteresting	18:56
DocScrutinizer	yeah, dbk please elaborate on what exactly fails and in which way	18:56
chem\|st	dbk: is the SIP account logged in on the phone or not?	18:57
dbk	chem\|st correct on the n900. sip seems to be working fine from the laptop, so i don't think it has much to do with the wifi connection.	18:57
DocScrutinizer	green dot is a start	18:57
chem\|st	dbk: I was never talking about wifi did I	18:57
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DocScrutinizer	I did	18:57
dbk	chem\|st afaict the sip accounts are all logged in. no, but Doc was talking about wifi	18:57
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: NAT issues	18:57
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: it did work before so, no	18:58
DocScrutinizer	dbk: does the phone ring on inbound SIP calls?	18:58
dbk	DocScrutinizer: the same connection was working fine for sip. i tried at a different wifi hotspot which also previously worked and no longer does.	18:58
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: AP might got reconfigured, topic uPNP or whatever	18:59
dbk	DocScrutinizer dunno cause i haven't gotten any incoming calls	18:59
DocScrutinizer	then you should call yourself	18:59
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chem\|st	dbk: if you open up your accounts on the phone has the SIP a green dot (as the other green dot might have a "!" in it and is still green)	18:59
chem\|st	and what doc said	19:00
chem\|st	got to go!	19:00
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DocScrutinizer	we need to find out if it's signalling that's broken (->no inbound calls), or RTP (I guess that, and it results in calls aborting or no audio on calls)	19:00
chem\|st	good luck!	19:00
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: o/	19:00
dbk	when open the phone app and check accounts they all show "enabled" but i don't know where to look for the green dots	19:00
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chem\|st	o/	19:00
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DocScrutinizer	dbk: there's a green dot to the right of each SIP account in that "availability" menu you get when you click on green dot next to battery, then on "availability" in the menu	19:02
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dbk	ok the green dots are all lit up	19:02
dbk	for all four sip accounts	19:02
DocScrutinizer	that's good as it means the phone can talk to SIP registrar	19:03
* alterego starts pushing code to gitorious		19:03
DocScrutinizer	now initiate an inbound call, see what it does	19:03
alterego	The whole of librxsupport will be deprecated because of the move to QML	19:03
alterego	There's one useful class in there now :/	19:03
dbk	inbound works! i guess the issue is outbound calling only...	19:04
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, so I bet you'll figue what's wrong then	19:04
DocScrutinizer	try setting your WIFI power savings mode to "none"	19:05
dbk	DocScrutinizer: where is the wifi power saving setting?	19:05
DocScrutinizer	settings - internet connections - connections ....	19:06
DocScrutinizer	select your AP, "edit" ...	19:06
DocScrutinizer	at end select "advanced"	19:07
DocScrutinizer	tab "other"	19:07
DocScrutinizer	o/	19:07
DocScrutinizer	cya later	19:07
DocScrutinizer	good luck	19:08
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alterego	Anyone got any reasons not to use the Apache License?	19:13
dbk	DocScrutinizer: thanks for the help. at least incoming is now working. bye for now	19:14
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DocScrutinizer	inbound calls are way more prone to fail than outbound	19:23
DocScrutinizer	so if inbound works, well it should be a solvable task to make outbound work as well	19:24
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RST38h	Hundreds of girl children in Indore are being operated on to turn them into boys... Such surgeries -- on children as young as 1-5 years old -- are rampant in Indore's clinics and hospitals.	19:54
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alterego	So they got rid of all the SDL stuff in HArmattan	20:04
alterego	No MAFW	20:04
alterego	matd instead of pnatd	20:04
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javispedro	mafw is there	20:05
alterego	Not according to this it isn't.	20:05
alterego	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html	20:05
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javispedro	alterego: it is there surely, afaik it's not free/public anymore	20:06
alterego	It got renamed to "grillo"	20:06
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javispedro	that's the open fork	20:06
alterego	rtcom is gone	20:07
javispedro	qmafw is the one in harmattan	20:07
alterego	No sudo?	20:07
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_trine	it would be nice to have an app that when you took a picture it would automatically upload the photograph to your home computer over the net	20:08
alterego	_trine: nice for who? :P	20:09
_trine	for me	20:09
alterego	Write it then :)	20:09
_trine	and anyone else who would want it	20:09
javispedro	_trine: google facebook clone has that	20:09
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javispedro	(for android obviously =) )	20:09
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* _trine reminds himself that some guys on this channel are still at school		20:11
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bindi	ugh	20:13
bindi	mobile hotspot doesnt work	20:13
bindi	it starts, computer finds ap	20:13
bindi	but doesnt get an ip	20:13
alterego	Ah yes, qmafw	20:14
alterego	media-im-status-updater should work then :)	20:14
alterego	Interesting: http://wiki.meego.com/MIPS	20:17
alterego	Someone seems interested in getting MIPS on there.	20:17
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ruskie	alterego, most likely one of the MIPS manufacturers	20:24
alterego	It is the MIPS manufacturer ;)	20:25
ruskie	heh	20:26
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GeneralAntilles	What iconography would you folks recognize as a light meter?	20:26
GeneralAntilles	Since nobody actually knows what a light meter looks like.	20:26
alterego	Hmmm	20:27
alterego	A picture of a bulb with a needle indicator?	20:27
ruskie	wikipedia knows what it looks like	20:27
GeneralAntilles	http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_lightmeter.png	20:27
GeneralAntilles	Is what I put together.	20:27
GeneralAntilles	ruskie, well, sure and I do too.	20:27
hiemanshu	alterego: I know that guy, fedora contributor	20:27
GeneralAntilles	But not a lot of people have handled them in real life.	20:27
GeneralAntilles	alterego, not bad.	20:28
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*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b Pathin!@		20:29
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*** Pathin was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		20:29
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alterego	Eh?	20:31
DocScrutinizer	bot	20:32
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DocScrutinizer	friggin arsebot	20:32
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DocScrutinizer	[2011-06-29 19:26:39] <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: 'pathin' is a log robot that is feeding some sort of SEO farm	20:37
alterego	What's an SEO farm?	20:38
* alterego chuckles		20:39
alterego	Hah: DCC SEND from dfaso [0.0.0.0 port 0]: startkeylogger [0B bytes]	20:39
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DocScrutinizer	heh	20:40
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SpeedEvil	Saying that start keylogger thing at least used to be grounds for a kline	20:40
SpeedEvil	Dunno if official policy has changed	20:41
alterego	Yeah, well, I didn't notice it until just now	20:42
alterego	Happened 4 hours ago	20:43
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frals	bah, everyone not working for nokia got a n950 at meego meet up today ;<	20:46
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alterego	Well, there's a suprise.	20:46
SpeedEvil	:)	20:46
alterego	Does that mean they get two if they've applied for the DDP?	20:47
SpeedEvil	How many peeps is that in total?	20:47
SpeedEvil	s/i/wa/	20:47
infobot	SpeedEvil meant: How many peeps was that in total?	20:47
javispedro	alterego: yes =)	20:47
SpeedEvil	No way I could have gotten to SF anyway	20:47
frals	guessing less than 30	20:47
alterego	San Francisco?	20:47
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GeneralAntilles	BASTARDS	20:48
alterego	I thought the meeting was in Helsinki ..	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Screwed us in Dublin, screwed us in SF.	20:48
frals	uh, shouldve clarified, everyone at meego meet up in HEL	20:48
SpeedEvil	oops	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Some piddly little MEETUP gets devices? . . .	20:48
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alterego	GeneralAntilles: I've been asking for _one_ for our meetups in the UK last week and this monday, but no one can help me :(	20:48
DocScrutinizer	lol	20:49
frals	guess it helps when the meetup was sponsored by nokia	20:49
alterego	Yeah ..	20:49
frals	and it was walking distance from our office	20:49
alterego	frals: why didn't you go?	20:49
frals	i was there	20:49
lcuk	frals, technically you could walk to england	20:49
lcuk	(with a bit of swimming)	20:50
DocScrutinizer	or lead shoes :-)	20:50
ruskie	and gills	20:50
ruskie	don't forget gills	20:50
hiemanshu	and wearing clothes helps	20:51
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javispedro	GeneralAntilles: they're going to do FRINGE science with them!	20:53
ruskie	hehe	20:53
RST38h	Funny, Fringe is on TV right now.	20:53
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redeeman	hello, are there any n900 apps that can log a route with the gps into gpx files with timestamps?	20:53
alterego	Heh GeneralAntilles doesn't even know what Fringe is ..	20:54
SpeedEvil	redeeman: yes	20:54
ruskie	redeeman, yes look under the location&navigation section	20:54
SpeedEvil	redeeman: gps-tracker-widget or something similarly named	20:54
SpeedEvil	I use it for openstreetmap	20:54
ruskie	I think there's a few	20:54
SpeedEvil	yeah - osm2go too	20:55
GeneralAntilles	alterego, Fringe who?	20:55
GeneralAntilles	Why wouldn't I know what Fringe is?	20:55
SpeedEvil	There is one logger that doesn't do timestamps - I forget	20:55
* GeneralAntilles isn't caught up, however.		20:55
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frals	http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia	20:58
frals	list of ppl getting n950s ;)	20:58
alterego	I've been freakin accepted!	20:59
alterego	Woo!	20:59
alterego	WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!	20:59
alterego	GeneralAntilles: you're not on the list	21:00
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GeneralAntilles	alterego, :P	21:00
alterego	:)	21:00
* alterego edits out GeneralAntilles' name		21:01
DocScrutinizer	:-P	21:01
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, the wiki seems a dangerous place for that list.	21:01
frals	hm	21:01
alterego	GeneralAntilles: it's not the _master_ list ;)	21:01
frals	did it say something somewhere about nokians applying?	21:01
frals	... maybe i should have applied to get a real one :P	21:01
javispedro	_all_ the names ring a bell.	21:02
alterego	frals: no Nokians allowed	21:02
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mtnman	hello everybody!	21:03
frals	javispedro: i guess thats kinda the point? ;D	21:03
frals	alterego: it said somewhere?	21:03
alterego	The forum thread	21:03
ShadowJK	Sergey Ivanov gets 2	21:03
frals	alterego: mkay	21:03
alterego	Just Nokia, Quim didn't seem to care about Intel or LF people.	21:03
DocScrutinizer	so has anybody bothered to wc -l that list yet?	21:03
frals	hah, as if intel people would dare asking for one after all the yelling theyve done	21:03
alterego	"This is the first list of accepted candidates. More will come! You will receive an email with instructions on 30-06-2011." :)	21:03
pabs3	alterego: ouch on the SDL, would be easier to port games with it	21:04
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, fiferboy says 137	21:04
javispedro	pabs3: I'm working on it	21:04
hiemanshu	w00t	21:04
hiemanshu	I am getting a N950	21:04
DocScrutinizer	yay, so there's still hope XP	21:04
alterego	Nice Stskeeps got one too	21:04
hiemanshu	http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Accepted	21:04
alterego	Oh, and texrat	21:04
alterego	What app dev does he do? :P	21:04
frals	javispedro: what with SDL?	21:04
mtnman	is there a way to configure sip on the n900 so that when using a particular account for outgoing calls it will prepend a default country code? i.e. prepend "1" by default to any number dialed? i think this is similar to setting up a dial plan for asterisk.	21:04
javispedro	frals: yep	21:04
javispedro	frals: I mean, it was missing in harmattan	21:05
frals	javispedro: uh, hmm	21:05
jacekowski	mtnman: i just have all numbers in full format	21:05
alterego	pabs3: I think they're forcing us to use Qt and GLES2 to make it work on Symbian ;)	21:05
javispedro	frals: hmm what? :D	21:05
jacekowski	mtnman: with all zeroes and pluses	21:05
mtnman	jacekowski: i don't want to go through my entire contact list and change every entry. besides it may mess things up if i use a different account. is there no way to set up a per-account dial plan?	21:06
DocScrutinizer	mtnman: no	21:06
DocScrutinizer	such an app has been requested for several times, but it's not implementable on closed app botch	21:07
alterego	"* We haven't done the 'Nokia employee' check yet. If you happen to be one, contact Quim Gil."	21:07
alterego	Hahah	21:07
pabs3	huh, one Debian guy is getting an N950	21:07
mtnman	which debian guy?	21:07
pabs3	are the projects public in any way?	21:07
pabs3	Bradley Smith	21:07
frals	alterego: lol	21:08
mtnman	thanks	21:08
DocScrutinizer	where's jonwill when you need him?	21:08
frals	alterego: i wonder if that includes nokia subcontractors, because i recognize some names on that list which well...	21:08
alterego	frals: I hope I don't get a job offer in the next 12 or so hours ;)	21:08
alterego	frals: no, not sub-contractors	21:08
alterego	They all have _really_ lame protos (if they're working in that area)	21:08
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jacekowski	mtnman: full numbers should work everywhere	21:09
frals	alterego: heh, i guess it depends ;)	21:09
DocScrutinizer	nokia subcontractors should read the general meego DDP rules	21:10
MoonTiger	i almost got my first proper maemo5 dialog box working with all proper controls etc etc ... quite exciting for me :)	21:10
jacekowski	have you heard news that N9 will be first last and only meego device?	21:10
DocScrutinizer	highly unlikely Nokia doesn't offer devel devices to subcontractors	21:10
mtnman	looks like i need to go through the whole contact list and change all numbers :-/	21:10
jacekowski	mtnman: you should have done it from start	21:11
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frals	at least one nokian on that list as well -- "ops" :D	21:12
DocScrutinizer	mtnman: export contacts to vcard - edit (using whatever does the job best, sed or word), the reimport	21:12
DocScrutinizer	then*	21:12
alterego	I did have a bit of a heads up though: http://wiki.meego.com/Special:RecentChanges	21:12
alterego	:)	21:12
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frals	some of the people on the list got a device today already as well	21:14
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hiemanshu	anyone else here with names on their list?	21:15
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GeneralAntilles	I've got LOTS of names on MY list.	21:17
* GeneralAntilles glares at frals.		21:17
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* frals slips back in to the shadows		21:17
DocScrutinizer	hehehehehe	21:17
GeneralAntilles	w00t__, not on the list?	21:17
alterego	MohammadAG: isn't on the list	21:18
frals	how old is MohammadAG?	21:18
javispedro	alterego: ow.	21:18
frals	ie, is he underage?	21:18
mtnman	well its fine so say i should have done something from the start, but there is no way for me to have known this in advance of this problem.	21:18
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG clearly failed as he had too many potential ports on his application list	21:18
frals	(note i have nothing to do with this, im just guessing like the rest of you)	21:19
alterego	frals: underage for what?	21:19
DocScrutinizer	~shoot frals	21:19
* infobot shoots frals in the head with a frozen turkey cannon!		21:19
javispedro	frals: but there's no age field on meego.com profile?	21:19
alterego	He was probably one of the later submissions	21:19
pabs3	mtnman: Michal Čihař is another Debian guy	21:19
frals	for signing some mumbojumbo contracts	21:19
DocScrutinizer	:-D	21:19
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alterego	Venemo isn't on there either.	21:19
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frals	based on what happend today you have to sign a contract, and if you are underaged im guessing thats gonna be a problem	21:20
alterego	Neah	21:20
frals	or May not be able to ship to certain countries / locations.	21:20
javispedro	didn't MohammadAG finish college recently?	21:20
javispedro	he's probably not underage	21:20
alterego	He's finishing college yeah	21:20
javispedro	sorry, I always confuse english education stuff	21:20
javispedro	I meant high school	21:20
javispedro	or	21:20
javispedro	bah, forget it.	21:20
DocScrutinizer	""he's old enough to carry a gun""	21:20
DocScrutinizer	I bet IL army won't want him to	21:21
alterego	Teeheehee	21:22
alterego	I'm feeling quite evil	21:22
alterego	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1041631	21:22
alterego	Just created a thread on tmo about accepted N950s ;)	21:22
alterego	That'll piss off the locals	21:22
* alterego runs away.		21:23
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: get your asbestos underwear	21:23
alterego	Heh	21:23
alterego	I wonder when the N9 will go through FCC now ..	21:24
fiferboy	alterego: 137, but someone is listed twice :)	21:24
DocScrutinizer	me too	21:24
mtnman	is there a way to have the phone default to a particular sip account for outgoing calls? it seems to always default to "cellular" even though i have no sim card installed.	21:24
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DocScrutinizer	ouch	21:24
DocScrutinizer	I bet there is some hidden trick	21:25
mtnman	DocScrutinizer: hidden trick comment directed towards me?	21:25
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DocScrutinizer	well, the obvious solution is to prepend phone by sip:	21:26
DocScrutinizer	:-/	21:26
mtnman	DocScrutinizer: that would still require choosing a sip account. i want to reduce the number of steps to complete a call	21:26
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: are you on the accepted list?	21:26
DocScrutinizer	nah	21:26
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: weird	21:27
DocScrutinizer	:shrug:	21:27
DocScrutinizer	I'm evidently no world class app devel	21:27
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I am at a n00b at it too :/	21:28
DocScrutinizer	I just can suggest how t build apps	21:28
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GeneralAntilles	So, how many hit lists did Quim just put these people on?	21:28
DocScrutinizer	and my worst problem is I favour solutions that can't get called apps as they work completely transparent	21:29
alterego	:)	21:29
DocScrutinizer	is starhash-enabler an app?? I'd say clearly not	21:29
alterego	"these people" ? You're one of us!	21:30
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, I think you fall in Quim's group 3.	21:30
DocScrutinizer	I think I fall in quimgroup1-	21:31
GeneralAntilles	Or rather, level 1.	21:31
GeneralAntilles	http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24006&postcount=126	21:31
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javispedro	aka fringe division	21:31
DocScrutinizer	or 0+	21:31
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG: I wouldn't worry too much yet	21:31
javispedro	Jaffa: I have to wonder by what definition does MohammadAG fall on fringe division, though.	21:32
DocScrutinizer	figure h-e-n would work without any friggin GUI, just figure...	21:32
javispedro	we'll have to ask what was his application like...	21:32
* Jaffa was going to play Devil's Advocate put it's not easy, nor fun		21:33
* GeneralAntilles ponders posting http://thumbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/trollface.jpg in alterego's thread.		21:33
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GeneralAntilles	500+ applications	21:33
GeneralAntilles	means it's easy to overlook some.	21:34
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hiemanshu	well atleast 20-30% would be group 0	21:34
alterego	Hah	21:34
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alterego	Do it RAGE QUIT TMO!	21:35
alterego	Pretend you didn't get accepted and say how you've been here longer than any one in the universe	21:35
alterego	And if it wasn't for you sleeping with a certain persons wife you would have one already	21:35
* DocScrutinizer shrugs and heads out - N9(50) never been the top topic		21:35
fiferboy	I think Quim's thread on f.m.c is going to get interesting now	21:36
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hiemanshu	fiferboy: very very	21:37
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alterego	I think the TMO one will be more interesting.	21:37
alterego	Hah, I didn't think you'd actually do it GeneralAntilles :P	21:38
GeneralAntilles	That image just cracks me up.	21:38
javispedro	alterego: why, why you had to open a thraed on tmo	21:38
alterego	It's good	21:38
alterego	javispedro: to get my own back ...	21:38
alterego	I really hope abill_uk didn't apply or get one ..	21:40
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Jaffa	alterego: What's his real name? Besides, it'd require him reading stuff	21:41
alterego	Heh yeah, I don't know his real name.	21:42
alterego	I'm not even convinced he lives in the UK, though he could from the times he has posted on tmo	21:42
DocScrutinizer	honestly I wonder if extending the functions of the device without installing an icon to start a GUI falls in quim's definition of 'application'	21:42
alterego	I don't think it does.	21:43
DocScrutinizer	which is clearly odd	21:43
DocScrutinizer	better install an 'app' to do e.g. sip calls rather than integrate it into stock dialer?	21:44
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alterego	more likely something that is installable through the app store and adds value to the N9	21:44
DocScrutinizer	hmm, probably everything is installable thru app store	21:45
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DocScrutinizer	adding value however is a relative metric	21:46
alterego	"Device Bricker 2k" - "Ever wanted to live tyhrough 1999 again?"	21:46
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dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: awesome idea, make an ui for existing functionality, make it look a little differen. presto an app!!!!11!	21:46
DocScrutinizer	indeed, that's the other way round	21:46
alterego	One of the requirements was not duplicating functionality	21:47
DocScrutinizer	honestly, I' wondering if starhash-enabler is an app or not, and why	21:47
alterego	Why did someone get accepted for it? ;)	21:48
mtnman	DocScrutinizer: the app you describe is something i could use (to make sip calls rather than cellular)	21:49
DocScrutinizer	it's clearly shippable via appstore, but it doesn't match any of my definitions of an app	21:49
DocScrutinizer	mtnman: ooh, if that's all you need to get happy, that's probably easy	21:50
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DocScrutinizer	there's a well documented way to initialize a call	21:50
mtnman	DocScrutinizer: dunno if thats all i need, but it would be a step in the happy direction	21:50
DocScrutinizer	via dbus	21:50
DocScrutinizer	probably you could bash together something using queenbeecon and dbus-send	21:51
DocScrutinizer	click into the widget, enter number to call, press enter -> voila call via preferred sip account to the number you entered	21:52
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DocScrutinizer	don't expect this to work for calls from contacts though	21:53
mtnman	i noticed an entry in /usr/share/osso-rtcom/voip-support/sip.profile "Default-cellular = true". wonder what the effect of "= false" would be.	21:53
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DocScrutinizer	nor from call histroy	21:53
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mtnman	DocScrutinizer: contact support is important to me	21:53
w00t__	GeneralAntilles: not on the first batch, at least. I'll not panic until the rest are done :-)	21:53
alterego	w00t__: when did you submit your proposal?	21:54
DocScrutinizer	mtnman: see? it's in the details where it starts to get tricky	21:54
mtnman	no shit	21:54
DocScrutinizer	it's never the shiny app that cuts it	21:54
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alterego	Actually I was wrong, Venemo has been accepted	21:55
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frals	w00t__: what was your proposal?	21:55
DocScrutinizer	so how would I call a package that adds a "use this as default" checkmark box to each phone transport account?	21:55
DocScrutinizer	is that an Application??	21:55
w00t__	frals: the primary point of it (amongst all the other random crap I get up to) was to hack on tablet ux on there, get it running, and usable	21:56
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frals	w00t__: ah, i see	21:57
frals	w00t__: madness to replace our AWESOME ui with something as crappy as tablet ux, but i get the point of doing it ;)	21:57
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w00t__	frals: I love harmattan, but fully OSS wins every time ;)	21:58
DocScrutinizer	haha, so you also fall into quimgroup1, as I do	21:58
frals	w00t__: i guess mcompositor and meegotouchhome is oss.. ;-)	21:58
DocScrutinizer	w00t__: a new OS is no app dude!	21:58
DocScrutinizer	;-)	21:58
mtnman	DocScrutinizer: easydebian?	21:59
alterego	Just call it a "theme" :P	21:59
DocScrutinizer	neither	21:59
DocScrutinizer	lol	21:59
DocScrutinizer	well, easydebian is a chroot, that's indeed tricky	21:59
DocScrutinizer	it can have an icon and a GUI to start it	21:59
mtnman	do you consider easydebian an app?	21:59
DocScrutinizer	so maybe easyDebian actually is an app, while meego tablet UX clearly isn't ;-)	22:00
alterego	DocScrutinizer: you an have an icon to launch the tablet ux :P	22:00
mtnman	so an entire os can be considered an app... :D	22:00
DocScrutinizer	LOL	22:01
mtnman	another example: emacs	22:01
DocScrutinizer	cough	22:01
* DocScrutinizer hides		22:01
mtnman	it is largely considered to be an os with a pretty good editor	22:01
DocScrutinizer	nah I heard it's a pretty good OS with a crappy editor	22:02
mtnman	ymmv	22:02
mr_jrt	Quick question: Doing my first spot of pointer aritmetic on ARM (N900)...and I'm a tad confused by something. I have a guchar* to a block of memory, and I know the first 4 bytes are an int32, which I want to create a uint32* to. I've tried this by casting the guchar*, and gdb shows both pointers have the same value. However, when I dereference the pointer, I get random garbage. When I look at the memory addresses, the values are there fine. This an ARM align	22:02
DocScrutinizer	;-P	22:02
DocScrutinizer	mr_jrt: umm, endianness?	22:04
alterego	mr_jrt: probably endianness	22:04
alterego	snap :P	22:04
DocScrutinizer	hehe, first	22:04
macmaN	total score at the meego meetup - everyone in the room got an n950	22:05
DocScrutinizer	mr_jrt: convert the "crap" you get to hex and then look at it again	22:05
frals	macmaN: not everyone... :P	22:05
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: wrt starhash-enabler; I think the N950 manual (or certainly something) describes dialling various starhash/USSD codes to access some functionality; i.e. it might already be built-in	22:05
macmaN	lol, yeah excl nokia employees who probably have like 5 of them already in drawers	22:06
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: it clearly doesn't and isn't and does not work	22:06
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: On Harmattan? Fair enough	22:06
frals	macmaN: i wish, the N950 is rare :p	22:06
DocScrutinizer	ooh on harmattan	22:06
DocScrutinizer	nfi	22:06
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Since this was a Harmattan dev programme... ;-)	22:06
Jaffa	For Maemo 5, I wouldn't count it as an "app"; but that doesn't mean I don't get it through an app store or that it doesn't add value.	22:07
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: we can hardly refer to our previous apps published for harmattan, no?	22:07
mr_jrt	Well, I'm expecting the value to be 0x00000003, the memory address has 0x03000000 (I'm fine with endianness), but deferencing the pointer gives 0x50331648, which makes no sense at all, endianess or otherwise. :)	22:07
alterego	Actually yeah, you can :P	22:07
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: No, but presumably one of the criteria is "do we want this on the N9 at launch?"	22:08
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Anyway, I said I wasn't going to play Devil's Advocate. Yes, I think you should get one. MohammadAG too.	22:08
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Jaffa	Anyone who isn't a troll and adds value to the community. The more the merrier.	22:08
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: I bet they'd want USB hostmode, or they got something wrong with their priorities	22:08
frals	its not the complete list anyway	22:08
Jaffa	frals: +1	22:09
frals	its 133 out of 250	22:09
Jaffa	Just over 50%	22:09
Jaffa	And there'll be other devices beyond the 250, either N950s or N9s. Betcha.	22:09
alterego	Problem is MohammadAG kinda joined after quim left for meego ;)	22:09
frals	left for meego <- ???	22:09
Jaffa	alterego: He and I discussed the CSSU and the cool work MohammadAG was doing in Dublin.	22:10
Jaffa	alterego: He's very much aware (or was, anyway)	22:10
mr_jrt	arrgh. Just realised gdb isn't showing me in hex. /facepalm	22:10
mr_jrt	ta.	22:11
alterego	Jaffa: sure	22:11
DocScrutinizer	the motr puzzling to see moh missing on that list of early birds	22:11
DocScrutinizer	more*	22:11
alterego	DocScrutinizer: aiui he was quite late with his submission#	22:11
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DocScrutinizer	maybe, dunno	22:11
hiemanshu	how did MAG get root access yesterday?	22:12
frals	ssh root@localhost / rootme	22:12
Jaffa	hiemanshu: su	22:12
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DocScrutinizer	tbh Nokia is late on getting him on board	22:12
Jaffa	Or that.	22:12
hiemanshu	right	22:12
Jaffa	Anyway, ISTR my memory of 770-era default root passwords came in handy :-)	22:12
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Indeed.	22:12
frals	was default on fremantle as well wasnt it?	22:12
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DocScrutinizer	tzz, and I forgot it	22:14
DocScrutinizer	well, there's a chanlog	22:14
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DocScrutinizer	aah spotted it	22:15
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Jaffa	frals: Yeah - but no-one ever needed it from then on	22:16
DocScrutinizer	haha	22:16
DocScrutinizer	then came aegis	22:16
hiemanshu	ok, so there seems to be a meegotouchtheme	22:16
Jaffa	:)	22:16
hiemanshu	which is for the qt styling	22:16
DocScrutinizer	I wonder since when those N950 are on RDA	22:17
DocScrutinizer	can't be more than 2 days	22:17
DocScrutinizer	when I looked there's been nuttin yet	22:18
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hiemanshu	its been a little over a day	22:19
DocScrutinizer	yeah	22:19
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MohammadAG	I didn't "win"?	22:24
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Not in the first wave, it seems.	22:25
MohammadAG	:/	22:26
MohammadAG	Oh well, /me starts looking at Android	22:27
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Only 130 names have been published.	22:29
Jaffa	And there are other routes than the meego.com programme	22:29
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: or you could always threaten to kill elop, and flatten all his tyres	22:31
MohammadAG	Jaffa, doesn't matter, I was in the first 100 or 200 applications, I'm sure	22:31
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: when did you apply?	22:31
MohammadAG	And the project was 2 months worth of time	22:31
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, first day	22:31
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MohammadAG	I've seen others who applied after me in the list, so...	22:32
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, I'm with Jaffa, I wouldn't worry yet.	22:32
frals	what was the project MohammadAG?	22:32
fiferboy	Sounds like Quim has gone through them all and is now going back over them for a second round	22:32
MohammadAG	http://bt-messenger.com	22:32
javispedro	sounds like an oversight to me	22:33
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I applied about 1 week and 22 hours ago	22:33
javispedro	I mean, it's not possible.	22:33
hiemanshu	right	22:33
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, you're in the list?	22:33
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: yes	22:34
MohammadAG	oh well, congrats everyone	22:34
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: you should be on that list	22:34
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I am pretty sure he'll add you on the re-run now	22:35
GeneralAntilles	I wonder what the distribution curve is going to look like for icon background colors.	22:35
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, if I'm not, it's Android for me	22:36
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: and java? really?	22:36
MohammadAG	hiemanshu, I'm learning a new language either way	22:36
MohammadAG	hint, QML	22:37
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: well, there is libmeegotouch, and a meegotouch theme on the device	22:37
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Problem is most user applications will probably fall into the generic "Tools" category	22:37
MohammadAG	well sociality looks like shit with it	22:37
hiemanshu	a widget gallery using meegotouch which shows up perfectly fine	22:37
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, we should switch to purple.	22:37
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I am trying to find the way to activate the right theme	22:37
MohammadAG	I'll probably keep the CSSU up and continue to support it, if not, I'm sure someone will take over	22:38
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: You could easily do that under the "Photo" category	22:38
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/	22:39
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: note it's nonworking yet	22:39
piggz	MohammadAG: qml certainly makes portability a very minor issue...i nearly have an app running on android...only small issue is it not finding the qml files, i need to stick them all in a qt resource file instead of using the filesystem	22:40
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: and it doesn't do the icon background just yet neither =)	22:40
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MohammadAG	piggz, then nothing's wrong with android for me	22:42
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djszapiN950	how can I forward the mobile internet to my laptop from N900 ?	22:44
djszapiN950	i tried pppconf and pon, but I cannot connect, google does not load anything after pon	22:44
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: so the widgetsgallery app uses libmeegotouch, running from terminal shows MApplicationService warnings	22:45
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MohammadAG	hiemanshu, again, new language, might as well use Java	22:46
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: nope, its plain Qt	22:46
MohammadAG	anyway, rant over, I just felt like I was fucked in the ass	22:46
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djszapiN950	it is plain libmeegotouch....	22:47
hiemanshu	meegotouch-demos-widgetsgallery is plain libmeegotouch	22:47
hiemanshu	which is plain Qt, just themed	22:47
djszapiN950	not plain qt...	22:47
MohammadAG	no, not Qt	22:47
MohammadAG	it's not portable	22:47
MohammadAG	anyway, bbl at night	22:47
djszapiN950	hiemanshu nope	22:48
djszapiN950	well, kde is also plain qt then	22:48
hiemanshu	well there seems to be a theme for it	22:48
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hiemanshu	djszapiN950: ah ok	22:48
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hiemanshu	djszapiN950: well plain Qt = no QML	22:49
djszapiN950	gtk is plain qt then :)	22:49
djszapiN950	no qml :P	22:49
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hiemanshu	djszapiN950: so is wxWidgets :P	22:52
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djszapiN950	anybody any idea for ppp issues ?	22:52
hiemanshu	djszapiN950: use something like mobilehotspot to setup a Wi-Fi hotspot to use	22:53
djszapiN950	cept that it does not work	22:54
djszapiN950	and nope, I would like to use ppp	22:54
djszapiN950	mhs and wep is not enough....	22:55
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Venemo	it is outrageous that they don't give an N950 to MohammadAG	23:14
GeneralAntilles	It hasn't been decided yet.	23:15
frals	its not the final list	23:15
frals	sigh	23:15
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macmaN	yeah 114 people still to go	23:17
macmaN	im pretty sure MohammadAG is gonna get it	23:17
frals	more since people on the list got device today and at least one is a nokian	23:18
macmaN	after all, he is THE man	23:18
Venemo	~MohammadAG	23:18
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, mohammadag is your father	23:18
Venemo	seeM	23:18
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Venemo	well anyway, I'm crossing my fingers for him :)	23:18
trx	ive seen the list just now	23:22
trx	congrats Venemo	23:22
Venemo	thanks trx	23:22
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SpeedEvil	Where is this list? I was assuming Quims devkit thread - but seems not	23:29
frals	on the wikipage linked in the thread	23:30
GAN900	Wiki	23:30
frals	just lost the link	23:30
frals	SpeedEvil: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia	23:31
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SpeedEvil	ah - right	23:31
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SpeedEvil	Some worthy names that I recognise on the list	23:32
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frals	hmm, is zehkjotah (sic) a dev? isnt he like, blogger? :o	23:32
alterego	He's a dev	23:33
alterego	Does some work for Intel	23:33
frals	ok	23:34
DocScrutinizer	isn't that zehjotkah?	23:34
frals	ye, thats the one i meant	23:34
SpeedEvil	Ken-Young, lcuk, stskeeps jump out at a first read of the list, who do seem to be 'clear cases' - to me.	23:34
MohammadAG	alterego, afaik it's community work, not devel	23:34
MohammadAG	could be wrong	23:35
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DocScrutinizer	stskeeps? not really, he should get a device directly	23:35
SpeedEvil	I don't know many of the names I guess.	23:35
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frals	lots of names on that list i never heard of	23:35
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: True - I'd have thought.	23:35
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DocScrutinizer	honestly I thought stskeeps is a "Nokian"	23:35
SpeedEvil	frals: yup - I wonder how many of them we know by nick.	23:36
SpeedEvil	I thought he was too.	23:36
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frals	hes not	23:36
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SpeedEvil	It can be so hard to work out.	23:36
frals	subcontractor afaik	23:36
DocScrutinizer	so what? subcontractors are supposed to go launchpad DDP	23:36
frals	(last i heard he had his own company or something like that)	23:36
frals	DocScrutinizer: why?	23:37
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frals	they just happen to work for a company doing business with nokia	23:37
DocScrutinizer	because 90% of the devices are for subcontractors	23:37
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frals	i dont think i follow	23:38
frals	i assume they are getting the devices for their own time hobby oss projects and not because of what they do for a living	23:39
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frals	and the launchpad DDP are meant for people who are doing what they do for their company	23:39
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DocScrutinizer	so what's it then what stskeeps is doing for a living for Nokia?	23:39
frals	i have no idea if hes even actually on a contract with nokia anymore, last i saw he was doing some meego-arm stuff	23:40
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DocScrutinizer	I don't think they hired (or subcontracted) him for betatesting headsets	23:40
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DocScrutinizer	meh, nm	23:41
frals	anyway, im sure some of the names on that list could get a device without going through that program, no arguing there	23:42
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frals	(note personal opinion and all that, i actually have no insight in the process here)	23:42
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SpeedEvil	I'd hesitate to say stskeeps shouldn't get another device, even if he had one already. :)	23:43
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SpeedEvil	There is a note on there 'please note we haven't checked these people aren't with nokia or something.	23:44
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DocScrutinizer	I'm not saying he shouldn't get, I suggest he uses beter channels than this program	23:44
alterego	Not realy	23:45
alterego	He subcontracts through Nomovok, he has an early prototype, but he's not sure about whether he's still got a contract.	23:45
alterego	(soon)	23:45
alterego	Think it expires in a few monthsl	23:46
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frals	well... i have a feeling its the same for most nokians and we are excluded for some reason :P	23:49
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frals	anyways, off to dream about managers yelling about bugs, gnite!	23:51
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MohammadAG	meh who am I kidding, Android sucks balls	23:51
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Jaffa	frals: And if you're laid off, you "forget" to bring it in on your last day to give back ;-)	23:53
MohammadAG	night frals	23:54
X-Fade	Jaffa: OBS experiments going well?	23:54
Jaffa	X-Fade: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24047&postcount=15 has a script which gets stuff in to OBSable packages. And I understand more about how OBS works so I can update the Getting_started_with_OBS wiki page	23:55
Jaffa	X-Fade: Basically the Debian build got through to going "hang on, your build-depends are shit"	23:55
Jaffa	X-Fade: Which I take to be a very good sign :-)	23:55
X-Fade	Jaffa: Ok, that is a really good step.	23:55
X-Fade	Jaffa: Yeah, if you get past that part, then the rest is your crappy code :D	23:56
Jaffa	X-Fade: :)	23:56
Jaffa	X-Fade: Get past your chroot problem?	23:56
X-Fade	Jaffa: But anyway, good news.	23:56
X-Fade	Jaffa: Well, I made progress.	23:56
X-Fade	Jaffa: The Harmattan target starts the bootstrapping process now. It just fails installing some dependency.	23:57
X-Fade	Jaffa: Need to debug that more. Possibly aegis related :)	23:57
Jaffa	X-Fade: No doubt. All Harmattan problems will be blamed on Aegis	23:57
Jaffa	MohammadAG: BTW, with BT Messenger I can see some cool NFC stuff being nice - tap a device which is already part of the mesh and you join it	23:58
javispedro	X-Fade: Doing that on your own? Good luck! :P	23:58
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X-Fade	Jaffa: But now at least it doesn't seem hopeless atm.	23:58
javispedro	the aegis hooks during package building sounded übercomplex	23:58
X-Fade	javispedro: Yes, one man job :)	23:58
X-Fade	javispedro: Well atm it is rather LOUD in terms of warnings :)	23:59
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: Is there any detailed documentation on the NFC? - as it interfaces to the outside world. I.E. 'speaks ISO14443A/B, ISO...'	23:59
MohammadAG	Jaffa, well, someone will have to pick it up if I'm not on the list ;)	23:59
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MohammadAG	you're welcome to do so	23:59

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