| GeneralAntilles | mece, you. Are you ready for cleansing? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: though I was thinking we could for once try a separate user vs developer forum | 00:00 |
| javispedro | but it might be too late already for f.m.c | 00:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | mece, the issue of TMO trolls potentially migrating to f.m.c | 00:00 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Separate how? | 00:00 |
| * Jaffa would rather the sodding forum<->email bridge was finished. | 00:00 | |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, haters gonna hate | 00:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, Kathy might have some input there. :P | 00:00 |
| Jaffa | I've avoided two strong swear words in that sentence | 00:01 |
| javispedro | heh | 00:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, somebody explain paper.li to mee. | 00:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | It looks an awful lot like spam. | 00:01 |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, it aggregates the links in your feed | 00:02 |
| Atarii | hey, if I don't have a SIM inserted is there network related daemons I can disable? | 00:02 |
| Atarii | i.e. SMS-manager etc | 00:02 |
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| MohammadAG | crashanddie, remember the thing we talked about once, did you ever get on with it? | 00:06 |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, Jaffa, trolls will be trolls, but perhaps we could have a developer area with very strict non-confrontational policies. User area has to be open imo. | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | mece, open, definitely. | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I think abuses of the forum goodwill need to be punished quickly and effectively. | 00:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you're posting all day about how everything and everyone involved in the project sux | 00:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | well, ban time. | 00:08 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: you should target board members with you new campaign ;) | 00:09 |
| alterego | If only we could get Nokia to say, keep producing fucking maemo handsets ... | 00:10 |
| alterego | It's quite frustrating | 00:11 |
| Jaffa | Yup | 00:11 |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, yep | 00:11 |
| mece | alterego, yep! | 00:11 |
| Jaffa | Maybe it will be less so in 18-24 months time | 00:11 |
| alterego | What would happen if Elop was to, /accidentally/ get involved in a car crash in some tunnel in france. | 00:11 |
| mece | GAAH!!! "Qemu finished with error: Exit code was 1." | 00:12 |
| javispedro | ok, that was funny. | 00:12 |
| * mece gives up | 00:12 | |
| mece | alterego, elton john would sing at his funderal? | 00:12 |
| alterego | mece: hahah | 00:13 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Would he be christened the Prince of (Dark) Hearts? | 00:13 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:13 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, why france though? :P | 00:14 |
| alterego | Seriously, we could arrange something for a lot less money than getting a company to do what we want ;) | 00:14 |
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| mece | ahemm... aanyway | 00:15 |
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| mece | asdf | 00:17 |
| javispedro | kk | 00:18 |
| alterego | I know this guy, that'd make it look like an accident for about 5k EUR .. | 00:18 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, this channel is logged, just saying | 00:19 |
| javispedro | alterego: I'm sure he has on his will that after his death Nokia is to be sold to Nokla or similar | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG | before continuing this discussion, kick povbot :P | 00:19 |
| javispedro | alterego: so, forget. | 00:19 |
| javispedro | did I said sold? I meant given off as a present to Nokla. | 00:20 |
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| javispedro | hm.. | 00:20 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:20 |
| javispedro | dualsim... | 00:20 |
| javispedro | hm... interesting.... where's that accident thing you were mentioning? | 00:20 |
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| mece | gary cole! | 00:22 |
| alterego | I bet he already gets quite a lot of hate mail and, erm, probably death threats. | 00:22 |
| javispedro | #maemo -- conspiring against selop! | 00:23 |
| mece | set the topic | 00:23 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I hate that you can't have capital letters in your username on MeeGo.com | 00:28 |
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| mece | GeneralAntilles, is there a bug for that? | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's unlikely to be repairable now, though. | 00:29 |
| Sc0rpius | usernames shouldn't have capital letters globally | 00:30 |
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| Sc0rpius | email address, unix accounts, etc | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sc0rpius, then you should clearly s/Sc0rpius/sc0rpius/g | 00:30 |
| mece | Sc0rpius, true | 00:30 |
| Sc0rpius | actually it's meego.com, it's just that your browser doesn't care if you type it MeeGo.com :P | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Um | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's an old maemo.org branding thing. | 00:31 |
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| Sc0rpius | nicknames are like real names, they have to have capital letters | 00:31 |
| Sc0rpius | but my username is in lowercase: | 00:31 |
| Sc0rpius | [Sc0rpius] (~naikel@190.74.90.239): Hell was full, so I came back | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thus my complaint. | 00:32 |
| Sc0rpius | see? | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorry for the imprecise language. . . . | 00:32 |
| Sc0rpius | username=naikel | 00:32 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: what we need is a professional grade UX designer ... | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | timsamoff | 00:32 |
| javispedro | both need an n9 | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | aSIMULAtor | 00:32 |
| Sc0rpius | I need an N9 with keyboard | 00:32 |
| mece | alterego, for what? | 00:33 |
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| alterego | mece: nothing in particular right now. | 00:33 |
| alterego | Just contemplating a new MeeGo UX, but I lack the, erm, experience to work on such a large design | 00:34 |
| javispedro | ANOTHER one | 00:34 |
| alterego | Small UXs, no probs, a whole handset profile, well that's a rather larger endeavour. | 00:35 |
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| MohammadAG | <GeneralAntilles> I hate that you can't have capital letters in your username on MeeGo.com | 00:37 |
| MohammadAG | the reason I opted for my old mohammad7410 nickname instead of mohammadag | 00:37 |
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| MoonTiger | is it me being dumb or is the layout sizing stuff in qt really confusing? | 00:41 |
| RST38h | The former | 00:41 |
| javispedro | hhmmh | 00:41 |
| MoonTiger | oh | 00:41 |
| alterego | Hah | 00:41 |
| MoonTiger | ok | 00:41 |
| javispedro | package sources are disappearing frm harmattan-dev repo | 00:41 |
| alterego | quick mirror! | 00:41 |
| RST38h | get 'em FAST | 00:41 |
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| alterego | Or it's being updated ;) | 00:42 |
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| RST38h | No, really, mirror them | 00:42 |
| javispedro | late | 00:42 |
| javispedro | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/package-manager_0.26.2+0m6.tar.gz no longer there | 00:42 |
| RST38h | With madman at the helm, there is no saying what will happen to them | 00:42 |
| javispedro | oh, this is bad | 00:42 |
| javispedro | only a few have disappeared. | 00:42 |
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| javispedro | more like only one :( | 00:45 |
| * javispedro curses | 00:45 | |
| javispedro | ok, so I am left without source to read tonight. | 00:45 |
| RST38h | I can give you a random coredump of mine =) | 00:46 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: "TSA employees at Logan International Airport believe they have identified a cancer cluster in their ranks" | 00:46 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: but is it fun? | 00:48 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: probablynot=( | 00:49 |
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| ShadowJK | javispedro, just like with maemo4 and maemo5, good stuff vanishing :) | 00:52 |
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| MohammadAG | Hmm, according to twitter, MeeGo devices in Transformers 3 | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG | explains why there are only 250 devices | 00:53 |
| Corsac | do they transform themselves? | 00:53 |
| javispedro | obviously it is an extension of that meegoproject video | 00:55 |
| javispedro | er.. | 00:55 |
| javispedro | maemoproject. | 00:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wazzup? | 01:07 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: aegis. aegis. aegis! aegis? | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! | 01:12 |
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| javispedro | so | 01:17 |
| javispedro | funnily enough. | 01:17 |
| javispedro | yes. | 01:17 |
| javispedro | package-manager was released as free. | 01:17 |
| javispedro | yet now it is inside nokia-binaries | 01:17 |
| javispedro | so, the source was out there. | 01:18 |
| javispedro | for a few days. | 01:18 |
| javispedro | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vh48kRUtKpoJ:harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/+http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/package-manager&cd=2&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.es | 01:18 |
| javispedro | still on google | 01:18 |
| javispedro | 117MiB tarball O_O, damn I really wish I had downloaded. | 01:19 |
| javispedro | *it. | 01:19 |
| NIN101 | look at code.google.com, maybe its there cached... | 01:19 |
| javispedro | no way they cache tarballs =), but I wish | 01:21 |
| javispedro | it mush have been quite a sizeable leak of harmattan source =) | 01:22 |
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| NIN101 | http://google.com/codesearch sorry I meant this, but no, it does not seam to be cached. | 01:23 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders (not so idly) how the pre-rm script for a library patcher should look like :-o | 01:28 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | make sure the lib.so still is the same you patched months ago, if yes go restore the original you stashed away somewhere. But what if no? And what if your friggin stashed away original got lost?? :-O | 01:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | UNPATCH? yuck | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH, this thing *can not get uninstalled* PERIOD | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody sane would want to do that anyway | 01:32 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, is package-manager the UI or the backend? | 01:40 |
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| javispedro | the backend | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | also, if it was free for a while, that means legalities aren't an issue if they want to foss it | 01:40 |
| javispedro | ui is imaginatively called "package-manager-ui" | 01:41 |
| MohammadAG | is Harmattan actually more closed? | 01:41 |
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| MohammadAG | apt-worker and HAM were open, crappy, but open | 01:41 |
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| javispedro | no data, but I'm going to say it does not seem more open... | 01:41 |
| divan | javispedro, are you sure it's now in nokia binaries? | 01:42 |
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| javispedro | divan: look for yourself. | 01:42 |
| javispedro | nokia-binaries is pw protected. | 01:42 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, there'll be loads of "My N900 crashes after installing X. I also dropped it from 5th story balcony and it got overrun by a steamroller, but I'm sure that has got nothing to do with it. I need to figure out how to uninstall X!!!" | 01:42 |
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| divan | javispedro, I don't have harmattan sdk installed for now, and nokia-binaries pool is protected, so I can't check | 01:43 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, X sucks on the N900, I don't think it's used for anything | 01:43 |
| * MohammadAG removes it | 01:43 | |
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| MohammadAG | QML seems nice-ish | 01:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: indeed | 01:55 |
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| EliteTecke | Hi. | 01:58 |
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| EliteTecke | Is there a reason why maemo on the nokia n900 needs unallocated space. | 01:59 |
| EliteTecke | I forget. | 01:59 |
| EliteTecke | As I accidentally used this. | 01:59 |
| EliteTecke | And I screwed maemo. | 01:59 |
| cehteh | eh what? | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: goddammit! nobody mirrored the repo? | 02:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NOBODY? | 02:02 |
| EliteTecke | on the partition table | 02:03 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I was this near getting the source for that package, I had scheduled downloading it for tonight, and I think it disappeared today. | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | please elaborate | 02:03 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, nope, nobody | 02:03 |
| EliteTecke | The emmc image for the n900. | 02:03 |
| EliteTecke | Flashes an unallocated space. | 02:03 |
| EliteTecke | at the end of the partition table. | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | EliteTecke, tbh, I'd keep the table as is | 02:03 |
| EliteTecke | And I accidentally used it. | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | if i need more partitions, I'd add them after mmcblk0p3 | 02:04 |
| EliteTecke | And well maemo broke. | 02:04 |
| EliteTecke | haha. | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | recreate it? | 02:04 |
| EliteTecke | That's what I did. | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | it's 64MBs | 02:04 |
| EliteTecke | Ah nvm. | 02:04 |
| EliteTecke | reflash. | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | or MiBs, idk | 02:04 |
| DrGrov | Evening | 02:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: hmmm. I need to check this, but without looking at it yet I'd guess it has to do with aligning, and possibly a bug in one-off for writing to end of a partition | 02:05 |
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| EliteTecke | damn. | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | there were such nice bugs in e.g drdos or sth | 02:06 |
| EliteTecke | I can't flash the emmc. | 02:06 |
| EliteTecke | It doesn't write properly. | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way | 02:06 |
| troulouliou | hi i m launching rescue mode with flasher but i can not see the menu on the sceen (no light) | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | you always can flash eMMC | 02:06 |
| EliteTecke | ah f**** | 02:06 |
| troulouliou | what should i do to be able to mount my partition | 02:06 |
| EliteTecke | it only writes 30% | 02:06 |
| EliteTecke | then finishes process is 100% | 02:06 |
| EliteTecke | f***** | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | troulouliou: meego rescue initrd? forget it! | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: PC OS? | 02:07 |
| troulouliou | DocScrutinizer, i used it with gparted a while ago to resize my prtitio without problem | 02:07 |
| EliteTecke | Ubuntu(Linux Mint) | 02:07 |
| DrGrov | I have a quick question... What actually happened with Alberto Torres? Anyone got any solid info on this? | 02:07 |
| EliteTecke | Ah lets face it I have screwed with the device that many times I'm not surprised. | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: hmmm, no issues known afaik | 02:08 |
| EliteTecke | Its my own doing. | 02:08 |
| EliteTecke | I have f**** up the partition table completely. | 02:08 |
| EliteTecke | That's why it can't flash properly. | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: try to flash COMBINED, then do the VANILLA flash again | 02:08 |
| EliteTecke | That's what I am doing now. | 02:09 |
| EliteTecke | It has saves my ass b4. | 02:09 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: nonsense, the part-tab gets rebuilt on flashing | 02:09 |
| EliteTecke | We'll see. | 02:09 |
| troulouliou | DocScrutinizer, just typing U is perfect to have usb storage mode ... | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah yes. for storage mode it works. but storage mode is mostly useless | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | as it doesn't expose the rootfs | 02:10 |
| EliteTecke | I am trying to partition it like this p1=FAT32/home partition, p2=maemo/root/android partition p3=Meego partition, p4=Swap partition.:) | 02:10 |
| EliteTecke | Once flashing maemo I will re flash emmc. | 02:11 |
| javispedro | DrGrov: left | 02:11 |
| EliteTecke | Then maemo again. | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: you know about the patch-the-image hack? | 02:11 |
| EliteTecke | I think so. | 02:11 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: Ok. That is the official version? | 02:11 |
| EliteTecke | But which are you referring too? | 02:11 |
| EliteTecke | Please refresh my memory thanks.:) | 02:11 |
| javispedro | DrGrov: yep, iirc. | 02:11 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: its easier to use the rescue initrd and gparted | 02:11 |
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| EliteTecke | I use the rescue as well. | 02:12 |
| EliteTecke | To repartition it. | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | sed "s/2048/4096" -i vanilla.bin | 02:12 |
| EliteTecke | ah no I was thinking of something else. | 02:12 |
| EliteTecke | But thanks anyway. | 02:12 |
| EliteTecke | :) | 02:12 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: Ok, thanks for clearing it up. | 02:12 |
| EliteTecke | It goes init 20% | 02:12 |
| EliteTecke | finishing | 02:13 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: Just stumbled across it when reading about the N9 | 02:13 |
| EliteTecke | then writing. | 02:13 |
| EliteTecke | I might just be overlooking things. | 02:13 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: May I PM you? | 02:13 |
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| javispedro | DrGrov: of course, extraofficial, it probably was a elopcalypse move | 02:13 |
| javispedro | *extraofficialy | 02:13 |
| javispedro | DrGrov: yes | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: how are you typing things on rescue initrd? | 02:14 |
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| arvut | good evening/night fellas | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | no blue chars | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | means not even digits | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | hard to operate gparted I guess | 02:14 |
| EliteTecke | Who me. | 02:14 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: typing things? | 02:14 |
| arvut | coloured chat is nice, cans wees hath it? | 02:14 |
| EliteTecke | I just pressed u on rescue | 02:15 |
| EliteTecke | I had to reconnect sometimes. | 02:15 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: well, with resuce initrd, the whole eMMC is exposed as a usb mass storage device, so I can access the partiton data with a computer | 02:15 |
| EliteTecke | If you don't boot to maemo first and reformat the fat 32 partition | 02:15 |
| arvut | I saw something about +c awhile ago, possibly in #gentoo-chat | 02:15 |
| EliteTecke | dunno why gparted just moans that it can't access the mount point. | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah yes. forgot about it again :-/ | 02:15 |
| EliteTecke | We have loading bars. | 02:16 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | arvut: we are obviously not interested | 02:16 |
| arvut | =( | 02:16 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.236:_Custom_repartitioning_from_a_linux_PC | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: yes, thanks | 02:17 |
| EliteTecke | That's what I did. | 02:17 |
| EliteTecke | ahah nokia boot vid. | 02:17 |
| EliteTecke | It worked. | 02:17 |
| EliteTecke | :D | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought you were running gparted on device | 02:17 |
| arvut | I'll go back to reading about that enhanced lockscreen then | 02:17 |
| EliteTecke | What no. | 02:17 |
| EliteTecke | I ran gparted from Linux Mint. | 02:17 |
| EliteTecke | But I used rescue to access it. | 02:18 |
| EliteTecke | Also a quick note. | 02:18 |
| hiemanshu | having gparted on a mobile device is a bad idea in itself | 02:18 |
| EliteTecke | If you do need to reflash the n900 and the emmc. | 02:18 |
| * arvut gotta try mint some day.. | 02:18 | |
| EliteTecke | Make sure you disable R&D | 02:18 |
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| EliteTecke | As I had problems. | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | hey | 02:18 |
| EliteTecke | Otherwise it won't flash properly. | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's new | 02:18 |
| EliteTecke | Dunno why. | 02:18 |
| EliteTecke | Its done this six times already. | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG is flashing since ages with R&D mode on | 02:19 |
| EliteTecke | I have the new emmc. | 02:19 |
| EliteTecke | So that could be it well. | 02:19 |
| EliteTecke | The new emmc image flashed. | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | new eMMC? | 02:19 |
| arvut | what's R&D anyways? | 02:19 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah I'm not on vanilla no more. | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, probably MohammadAG does that rarely | 02:19 |
| EliteTecke | Ironically I was trying to reflash the emmc. | 02:19 |
| EliteTecke | With R&D enabled. | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | R&D has been on since May | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | at least May | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | 09 of course | 02:20 |
| EliteTecke | Try to repartition again just make sure I don't delete the unallocated space. | 02:20 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 02:20 |
| EliteTecke | I have never done that before. | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | I repartitioned my eMMC with gparted | 02:21 |
| EliteTecke | I have had this device for over year. | 02:21 |
| hiemanshu | EliteTecke: any new partitions you make should be at the end | 02:21 |
| EliteTecke | I know. | 02:21 |
| troulouliou | DocScrutinizer, storage mode is usefull to copy big files too :) | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | and unallocated space did change | 02:21 |
| EliteTecke | I have done this many times. | 02:21 |
| EliteTecke | Just this time I f*** up. | 02:21 |
| EliteTecke | It happens. | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | but I set it back to 64 then confirmed changes | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | troulouliou: yes sir | 02:21 |
| troulouliou | that my actual need copying the bt5 image :) | 02:22 |
| troulouliou | it is pretty sad that the N900 like phone is discontinued | 02:22 |
| EliteTecke | You mean a tablet with a phone application. | 02:23 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 02:23 |
| troulouliou | they should release a N900 v2 with same specification but higer speed CPU ; ram/rom and screen resolution | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 was a NIT, N9 is a phone | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-( | 02:24 |
| MohammadAG | is there a way to emit a signal with a QString in QML? | 02:24 |
| MohammadAG | I tried Text, String, char, QString, nothing seems to work | 02:24 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: oh, I'm not sure N900 was a NIT. | 02:25 |
| javispedro | I mean, large, finger sized buttons? | 02:25 |
| EliteTecke | I don't like how with R&D mode enable the thing boots on power source plugged in such as the battery being inserted. | 02:25 |
| EliteTecke | pain in the rear. | 02:25 |
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| javispedro | devil's thing! | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: try this --force-powerbutton option | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | I like that, swapping batteries is something I do a lot, it saves me having to press the power button | 02:26 |
| EliteTecke | Note to self leave the 64mb unallocated space alone! | 02:26 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 02:26 |
| troulouliou | MohammadAG, but you have to reset the clock on statup no ? | 02:27 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 02:27 |
| MohammadAG | though the SIM always leaves its place, so it shows the welcome screen again | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | but time and date are correctly set there | 02:28 |
| troulouliou | ok maybe this is cause most time i remove battery is to change SIM card | 02:28 |
| troulouliou | :) | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's unrelated to SIM | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | actually it is DocScrutinizer | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | I noticed it when my N900 was new | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 02:28 |
| EliteTecke | To get the meego partition as p3. | 02:28 |
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| MohammadAG | take the battery out for 30 secs, nothing happens | 02:28 |
| EliteTecke | I have to move the second partition up. | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | EliteTecke, NO | 02:29 |
| EliteTecke | Delete swap | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | don't f with p1-p3 | 02:29 |
| EliteTecke | What cool it. | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | if you want MeeGo on the eMMC, put it on a new p4 | 02:29 |
| EliteTecke | I have done this many times with android. | 02:29 |
| EliteTecke | Then add the p3 partition and the swap with remaining 64 allocated space. | 02:29 |
| Sc0rpius | who would want to run Meego on the N900? it's SLOWER than nitdroid | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG | Besides extending the partitions, I wouldn't change anything with numbering | 02:30 |
| EliteTecke | Not the community edition. | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - if you swap SIM - you get a new welcome screen | 02:30 |
| EliteTecke | Its much better. | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yes, maybe | 02:30 |
| troulouliou | EliteTecke, really ? with phone .... | 02:30 |
| EliteTecke | No one said do this how I do. | 02:30 |
| EliteTecke | Its just how I do things. | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, no need to swap it, just take it out and put it back in | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | but swapping sim isn't the same as removing and re-inserting same sim | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG | Sc0rpius, it's a bit faster as of the latest images | 02:31 |
| Sc0rpius | I think it's a waste of time | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that *definitely* does nuttin | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, sure of it, SIM slot somehow detects the sim is removed even without the battery | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: how could it tell if the phone is off? Unless you mean remvoe SIM - power up - replace SIM | 02:31 |
| EliteTecke | And did you bother to increase swap if you flashed the entire emmc with it. | 02:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: it simply can't, as device has no means to track such action | 02:31 |
| EliteTecke | If you don't its slow. | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, if you replace the sim while the device is on, it simply works | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | I didn't flash the entire eMMC with MeeGo... | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Huh? | 02:32 |
| arvut | hotswap sim? thats cool | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | How can you do that? | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | just copied the files to mmcblk0p4 and booted it up | 02:32 |
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| EliteTecke | How can you do that if the sim is behind the battery. | 02:32 |
| EliteTecke | Whilst having it on. | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hehe ;-D | 02:32 |
| arvut | haha good point | 02:32 |
| Sc0rpius | you have exactly 30 seconds to do it | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you actually can | 02:32 |
| EliteTecke | lol.:D | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, offline mode, rmmod ssi_m(tab) | 02:32 |
| Sc0rpius | orrrr | 02:32 |
| Sc0rpius | leave IT PLUGGED | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | remove battery by hotswap (see DocScrutinizer's method) | 02:33 |
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| Sc0rpius | hehe | 02:33 |
| EliteTecke | You mean hotswap. | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | swap sim, put battery back in, insmod, online mode | 02:33 |
| Sc0rpius | just leave the charger | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - yeah - I was assumign you weren't cheating | 02:33 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah great idea. | 02:33 |
| EliteTecke | Why don't we all run the risk of frying our devices. | 02:33 |
| EliteTecke | No thanks. | 02:33 |
| arvut | lol | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | how would that fry your device... | 02:33 |
| EliteTecke | When ppl say static kills devices they don't say as a joke. | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | there's a bigger chance of frying the device because of overclocking than because of hotswap | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | but when device is powered down, no way it ever detects you opening and closing again the SIM holder | 02:34 |
| EliteTecke | But by all means go ahead and cook it I'm sure steve jobs would love you for it. | 02:34 |
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| EliteTecke | >< | 02:34 |
| Sc0rpius | fuck Steve Jobs! | 02:34 |
| Sc0rpius | anyway there's no risk of frying it | 02:34 |
| arvut | some macfreak told me there were mac's that you can hotswap RAM at now, doubt that was true | 02:34 |
| EliteTecke | A mac rly. | 02:35 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, well, yes, I realize that | 02:35 |
| MohammadAG | I first thought it tracks IMSI | 02:35 |
| arvut | yeah, eff the cult | 02:35 |
| MohammadAG | but now it's doing it all the time | 02:35 |
| MohammadAG | (I removed the paper under the sim) | 02:35 |
| EliteTecke | I am not a supporter of apple hence I own no apple products. | 02:35 |
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| EliteTecke | Never have never will. | 02:35 |
| MohammadAG | hotswapping ram lol | 02:35 |
| arvut | :) | 02:36 |
| arvut | yeah, hes not very techsavvy | 02:36 |
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| MohammadAG | hotswapping the SIM is possible cause the device doesn't give a shit about the SIM when it's in offline mode | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | oh and btw, DocScrutinizer | 02:36 |
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| MohammadAG | plug a charger in MeeGo | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | remove the battery, the device stays on | 02:36 |
| EliteTecke | Well duh the iphone has the same cpu chip as the n900 and yet the iphone runs slower. | 02:36 |
| EliteTecke | wtf. | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | we have to stop bme on maemo, but not on MeeGo | 02:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (offline) exactly | 02:37 |
| arvut | same with maemo on n900? | 02:37 |
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| EliteTecke | The cpu is clocked down to 600mhz. | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (meego) WTF?! | 02:37 |
| EliteTecke | Silly really as it can run at 1Ghz just fine. | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | no, if you remove the battery with the charger in the screen flickers and the device dies | 02:37 |
| arvut | EliteTecke: yeah, fancy crap with too much bloat in it top stay sharp | 02:37 |
| troulouliou | wahou kernel panic while removing the device from flash.rescue without unounting | 02:37 |
| Sc0rpius | well | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | I thought you'd wtf at that | 02:38 |
| arvut | EliteTecke: would you actually recommend overclocking it then? | 02:38 |
| Sc0rpius | Steve Jobs can die for I care but I know the reason | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: please don't spread nonsense | 02:38 |
| Sc0rpius | iPhone's battery last like a week | 02:38 |
| Sc0rpius | that's the reason of the underclock | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | but I pulled the battery out by mistake | 02:38 |
| EliteTecke | Maemo runs at 600mhz | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | and the lack of real multitasking also saves battery life | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | EliteTecke: the iphone and the n900 do not share a CPU | 02:39 |
| EliteTecke | It hasn't gone higher without power kernal and overclocking. | 02:39 |
| arvut | Sc0rpius: and he will, the bastard even tore down his mansion bcuz he doesnt want others to live there when he takes his dirtnap | 02:39 |
| EliteTecke | snapdragon cpu. | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah | 02:39 |
| EliteTecke | I dunno about the iphone 4. | 02:39 |
| arvut | that mansion was like 300 years old | 02:39 |
| EliteTecke | But the same as the 3d | 02:39 |
| EliteTecke | 3g | 02:39 |
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| arvut | so, worth overclocking the n900 to 1ghz? | 02:40 |
| Sc0rpius | if you want to kill it yes | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, cooking steaks will be fun again | 02:41 |
| arvut | or should it stay at 600? | 02:41 |
| troulouliou | arvut, if you have permanent access to car / wakk power outlet yes | 02:41 |
| troulouliou | wall | 02:41 |
| EliteTecke | I wouldn't recommend you do it all the time. | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | It is likely to be significantly less reliable. | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | last thing I would worry about is battery life when overclocking | 02:41 |
| Sc0rpius | I wouldn't recommend you do it even once | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | ?However - go for it if you don't care much about that. | 02:41 |
| EliteTecke | But with all overclocking you will shorten the cpu's life time. | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 02:41 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 02:41 |
| arvut | oh yeah, battery drain.. forgot about that :P | 02:41 |
| troulouliou | i m in 1 ghz all days without any issue except some battery drain | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | where's that warning igor posted | 02:42 |
| arvut | mine can be somewhat slow sometimes | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | ah yeah, this thing http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/thewarningtm.jpeg | 02:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~overclocking | 02:42 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 02:42 |
| arvut | I'll keep it at 600 then.. this phone is gonna live as long as my 3410 did | 02:42 |
| arvut | does* | 02:43 |
| EliteTecke | If your that bothered stick android on it and downclock. | 02:43 |
| EliteTecke | Geez. | 02:43 |
| arvut | nah, dont like android | 02:43 |
| arvut | I'd rather install gentoo on it then | 02:43 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders selling teeny CPU fans for n900. | 02:43 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | troulouliou: I'm smoking since decades, with absolutely no problems except a bit of coughing | 02:44 |
| arvut | lol | 02:44 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, does Harmattan show isntallation progress or just a static icon? | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG | installation* | 02:44 |
| troulouliou | hehe | 02:44 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: good question. Code shows it might show a progress bar, but didn't manage to reproduce it (swipelauncher is closed) | 02:45 |
| EliteTecke | I think I have found the issue with the partitioning. | 02:45 |
| javispedro | so, no idea. | 02:45 |
| EliteTecke | If you delete the swap the unallocated space goes with it. | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | If I wanted Android I'd get an Android device | 02:45 |
| EliteTecke | So moving the partition is the only option. | 02:45 |
| arvut | MohammadAG: is that enhanced-lockscreen still in extras-devel btw? | 02:45 |
| arvut | I wanna try it | 02:46 |
| MohammadAG | cause tbh, Android works better there | 02:46 |
| javispedro | also, this is what happens when you break packages on harmattan =) http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/installbroken.png | 02:46 |
| MohammadAG | arvut, yep | 02:46 |
| arvut | oh :( | 02:46 |
| MohammadAG | Sorry, I don't use -testing | 02:46 |
| arvut | so its safe to install? | 02:46 |
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| arvut | not exactly sure which category is which yet | 02:47 |
| EliteTecke | haha worked and my partitions are how I like them. | 02:47 |
| EliteTecke | What was that don't do x y z oh come on. | 02:47 |
| arvut | extras-devel is the dangerous one, right? | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I've had few problems though. | 02:48 |
| arvut | good, ty | 02:48 |
| EliteTecke | Do you really think I wouldn't do this if I knew it would f**** up my device. | 02:48 |
| MohammadAG | had -devel enabled since day 1 | 02:48 |
| EliteTecke | Found another bug with the emmc. | 02:48 |
| arvut | advanced power was a mistake I made quite early | 02:48 |
| EliteTecke | Having R&D enabled and four partitions may sometimes jerk the booting. | 02:49 |
| EliteTecke | I think it just gets stuck in ram. | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | umm, no | 02:49 |
| EliteTecke | So I just removed the power source. | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | first boot is always slow | 02:49 |
| EliteTecke | And re inserted and it was fine. | 02:49 |
| arvut | now its not in -devel anymore I think but it kinda messed up my device | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | it was optifying rootfs, chances are you broke that | 02:49 |
| arvut | R&D? | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | umm, no, all devices optify rootfs on first boot | 02:50 |
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| EliteTecke | Okay its how you root the device to the point where you can have access to everything. | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 02:50 |
| arvut | root and d...? | 02:50 |
| EliteTecke | So no need for silly sudo gain root package installed | 02:50 |
| EliteTecke | To go to root from terminal. | 02:50 |
| MohammadAG | R&D is more than root access | 02:50 |
| troulouliou | is there any way to adjust xterm font to a slower value then 6 | 02:51 |
| arvut | ah | 02:51 |
| EliteTecke | I know but I am just simplifying it. | 02:51 |
| troulouliou | i mean the osso-term | 02:51 |
| arvut | what does the D in it mean? | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | EliteTecke: why do you simplify things that are simple enough the way they are? | 02:51 |
| EliteTecke | Who knows. | 02:52 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 02:52 |
| EliteTecke | I am not really that fussed. | 02:52 |
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| arvut | yeah, give the real meaning and see if ppl understand it instead X) | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a bit annoying you spreading semi-nonsense all the time | 02:52 |
| EliteTecke | Then get more questions. | 02:52 |
| MohammadAG | Research and Destr, err, Development | 02:52 |
| EliteTecke | oh yeah a brilliant way to spend my time. | 02:52 |
| arvut | root & destroy x) | 02:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | R&D is research and development | 02:53 |
| arvut | aha | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode | 02:53 |
| arvut | ty | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | it's not about root or not | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | the flasher R&D mode switches the hardware to a different state | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | it's more about watchdogs, or killing them | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | some debugging things get enabled that a normal user neither needs nor wants | 02:54 |
| EliteTecke | No I just explained what it enables/allow you to be able to do in simple terms as otherwise I get people saying I don't understand yada yada. | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g yu kbd backlight starts flickering weird ans sucks battery all the time for nothing, in R&D mode | 02:55 |
| arvut | I understand :) | 02:55 |
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| arvut | that page was quite brilliantly summarized | 02:55 |
| EliteTecke | Once I have done screwing around with the device I usually disable R&D mode. | 02:56 |
| EliteTecke | Until I need it again. | 02:56 |
| arvut | and research & devel speaks for itself | 02:56 |
| arvut | yeah, maybe feed the bot with that link for easy reminder? | 02:56 |
| arvut | so you can enable/disable r&d without a reflash then? | 02:57 |
| arvut | or not | 02:58 |
| EliteTecke | I just flash flasher-3.5 --disable-rd-mode | 02:59 |
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| EliteTecke | And then flasher-3.5 -R | 02:59 |
| EliteTecke | To reboot. | 02:59 |
| arvut | interesting. not gonna try it until I have to tho. not into development yet | 02:59 |
| arvut | but atleast I know what you speak of now :) | 03:00 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah sorry about that. | 03:00 |
| arvut | :) | 03:00 |
| EliteTecke | You won't believe how many times I tell people the whole thing from a to b and then they got what? | 03:00 |
| EliteTecke | So then I simplify it what something does that they most concerned of. | 03:01 |
| EliteTecke | Then they may get pissed at me for not doing that in the first place. | 03:01 |
| EliteTecke | So I either do that or don't bother answering. | 03:01 |
| EliteTecke | No offence but if people are that bothered just google stuff for your self. | 03:01 |
| arvut | haha yeah, I tend to start babbling with ppl about new exciting techstuff I've read about or try to explain thing I do and all I get is "I have no clue what ur talkin about. please shut up!" | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Handset forum is gonna make me get back into reading forums. | 03:02 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah exactly. | 03:02 |
| EliteTecke | Sorry arvut. | 03:03 |
| arvut | np | 03:03 |
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| arvut | I do enjoy conversing tho, which is why I'm here. and learning new thing keeps me alive :) | 03:03 |
| EliteTecke | Anyway's I am off to install meego and if I can get it to boot from the partition I won't and still have maemo and android(optional) from the emmc I will post a tutorial on it. | 03:03 |
| EliteTecke | If people are interested. | 03:04 |
| arvut | nice, much appriciated ;) | 03:04 |
| arvut | gl | 03:04 |
| EliteTecke | I will still stay and chat but my responses maybe long in between replies. | 03:04 |
| EliteTecke | *I want | 03:04 |
| arvut | I'm off to bed as soon as I've finished scanning my uncles laptop with mbam | 03:04 |
| arvut | sooo tired -.- | 03:05 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah mbam is good for windows. | 03:05 |
| EliteTecke | But I stopped using windows all together a long time ago. | 03:05 |
| arvut | this is a vista laptop, lenovo junk with a 3 min batterylife (hw is crap) | 03:06 |
| arvut | 137gb hdd and its 80% full | 03:06 |
| arvut | installing ubuntu on it tomorrow so they can dualboot for some speed | 03:07 |
| EliteTecke | Damn you need more space. | 03:07 |
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| EliteTecke | Sorry. | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably #ubuntu is appreciating lessons about rm * usage | 03:14 |
| EliteTecke | I won't mention them again. | 03:14 |
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| EliteTecke | Just a question that sparks your mind. If say your cpu dies on your n900 in say the next 5 to 10 years would you solder on a new cpu if you could find one to buy? | 03:17 |
| arvut | yeah #ubuntu always need good helpers ;) | 03:17 |
| EliteTecke | Or just buy a new phone or device? | 03:17 |
| EliteTecke | Myself I would get a new cpu if I could. | 03:18 |
| arvut | EliteTecke: probably not, would you buy a new cpu for your old P2? | 03:18 |
| arvut | or P3 for that sake | 03:18 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah. | 03:18 |
| EliteTecke | As I have many p2 for spare parts. | 03:18 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 03:18 |
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| EliteTecke | I know not every one would. | 03:18 |
| EliteTecke | But I just don't see the point in buying an entire new device if all it needs is one part replacing. | 03:19 |
| EliteTecke | If it say need more then three parts. | 03:19 |
| EliteTecke | I wouldn't bother. | 03:19 |
| arvut | I actually considered buying a P3 and some cheap ram for an old serverbox I found.. turned out the hdd was dead too and the cd-rom was kinda weak | 03:19 |
| EliteTecke | Damn that's bad. | 03:20 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah in those cases I wouldn't bother. | 03:20 |
| arvut | I collect P4's instead :P | 03:20 |
| EliteTecke | But a cpu being needed to replace. | 03:20 |
| EliteTecke | I mean come on I build pc's all the damn time. | 03:20 |
| EliteTecke | And replace countless cpu's. | 03:20 |
| EliteTecke | So why the heck not. | 03:20 |
| arvut | would cost me £45 | 03:20 |
| EliteTecke | Granted I don't have to solder them in a desktop. | 03:21 |
| arvut | for the cpu | 03:21 |
| EliteTecke | I don't understand people that just buy a whole new pc instead of upgrade or replace the part. | 03:21 |
| EliteTecke | Just because they don't know how too. | 03:21 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah but other people do. | 03:22 |
| EliteTecke | And it is usually cheaper to replace a piece of hardware in a pc. | 03:22 |
| arvut | singlecores can be a pain when it comes to requirements and stuff | 03:22 |
| EliteTecke | Every chip is different. | 03:22 |
| EliteTecke | Replace one cpu with the same one with the same default clock is fine and yes I know all cpu's of the same model are never going to be exactly the same. | 03:23 |
| EliteTecke | Hence why some cpu's clock better then others. | 03:23 |
| arvut | but my new i7 generates less heat than my old p4 does, so now I gotta keep the window shut during the winter :P | 03:23 |
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| EliteTecke | The highest overlclock I ever managed was a Intel Pentium duo core(silly name just call it a pentium duo) was from 2.0Ghz stock to 3.80Ghz | 03:24 |
| EliteTecke | Idle temps 22-24 degrees. | 03:24 |
| EliteTecke | :) | 03:24 |
| arvut | nice | 03:25 |
| EliteTecke | First overlclock I ever did as well. | 03:25 |
| EliteTecke | lmao.:D | 03:25 |
| arvut | not using stock cooler then? ;) | 03:25 |
| EliteTecke | Oh god no the most I got with that on any cpu would be +0.60 | 03:26 |
| EliteTecke | I use a artic cooler. | 03:26 |
| EliteTecke | With artic silver. | 03:26 |
| EliteTecke | Best make for me. | 03:26 |
| arvut | good stuff | 03:26 |
| EliteTecke | When it comes to cooling. | 03:26 |
| arvut | I found mx-1 to be quite good too | 03:27 |
| EliteTecke | But then weirdly I can't even push a stock duo core from intel at 3.0Ghz to 4.0Ghz | 03:27 |
| EliteTecke | This is with the Arctic cooler. | 03:27 |
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| EliteTecke | I think it is down to my ram. | 03:27 |
| arvut | could be | 03:27 |
| arvut | I know not too much about overclocking | 03:28 |
| EliteTecke | I have two 1gb sticks of DDR2(Geil) and 2 2GB ram of DDR2(Corsair) | 03:28 |
| EliteTecke | And they run slightly different speeds. | 03:28 |
| EliteTecke | But only by about 30. | 03:28 |
| arvut | corsair makes excellent stuff | 03:28 |
| EliteTecke | Yeah mine have the flashing leds. | 03:28 |
| EliteTecke | The gold bars. | 03:28 |
| EliteTecke | Well gold plated ones. | 03:29 |
| arvut | :) | 03:29 |
| EliteTecke | Best system I ever built was my first one. | 03:29 |
| EliteTecke | Had to be. | 03:29 |
| EliteTecke | In my opinion. | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably dramatically increases speed of flasher-3.5 | 03:29 |
| EliteTecke | Just started high school many years ago. | 03:29 |
| arvut | heh, I modified my first one so many times that only one ram stick and the mobo remained original at the end | 03:30 |
| EliteTecke | And I had I think it was an asus motherboard. | 03:30 |
| arvut | then I built my i7 which I'm very happy with | 03:30 |
| EliteTecke | pc4-e something or other. | 03:30 |
| EliteTecke | With a asus cpu upgrade hit. | 03:30 |
| EliteTecke | Running a laptop processor. | 03:30 |
| EliteTecke | Brilliant temps. | 03:30 |
| * divan finally fixed a bug in echonest-codogen which drove me crazy. Codegenerator algorithm works perfectly for the first time, and fails the next ones, unless the program is restarted. | 03:31 | |
| EliteTecke | A 1gb stick of DDR1 gold plated ballistixs. | 03:31 |
| arvut | was massivly suprised that with the low-cost ram these days, 8gb ddr3 for under 80€ | 03:31 |
| EliteTecke | A Nvidia 6800GT | 03:31 |
| EliteTecke | And A 500watt psu. | 03:31 |
| divan | BTW, QtCreator gdb frontend is awesome | 03:31 |
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| EliteTecke | And omg a 80Gb ide hard drive. | 03:31 |
| EliteTecke | How old. | 03:32 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 03:32 |
| arvut | haha those were epic | 03:32 |
| MohammadAG | I'm guessing N950 applications deadline is over? | 03:32 |
| arvut | 74.4gb wd? | 03:32 |
| EliteTecke | And a pioneer rw sata drive | 03:32 |
| EliteTecke | As well as a Sony dvdrom/cdrw (IDE) | 03:32 |
| EliteTecke | drive. | 03:32 |
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| EliteTecke | Turned out to be a rebranded liteon drive. | 03:32 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 03:32 |
| EliteTecke | So I flashed that sucker with a liteon firmware. | 03:33 |
| EliteTecke | And now I can backup gamecube games. | 03:33 |
| EliteTecke | And possibly Nintendo Wii. | 03:33 |
| EliteTecke | Games I think.:) | 03:33 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: do not think it is hard deadline, prolly form will stay up until someone remembers | 03:33 |
| EliteTecke | It also had Hercules Fortimissmo III sound card. | 03:33 |
| EliteTecke | But I sold it some years back. | 03:33 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, heh | 03:34 |
| arvut | undblasger live! 5.1 :) | 03:34 |
| EliteTecke | It was good but no where near as good as my onboard HD sound. | 03:34 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, done any work on QML? | 03:34 |
| arvut | soundblaster* | 03:34 |
| javispedro | did some stuff reimplement the wp7 ui | 03:34 |
| javispedro | do not know what I'd use it for =) | 03:34 |
| EliteTecke | And I had a good system but had a crappy 17inch crt! | 03:34 |
| EliteTecke | What was I thinking. | 03:34 |
| EliteTecke | I had a 2.1 Logitech sound system with sub-woofer which I still own. | 03:35 |
| EliteTecke | :) | 03:35 |
| EliteTecke | No way am I getting rid of that. | 03:35 |
| EliteTecke | Eventually the PSU died after about five years or so. | 03:35 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: have you seen this movie? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250687/ | 03:35 |
| EliteTecke | I think playing Fear with a few hardware upgrades drained it quicker. | 03:36 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 03:36 |
| EliteTecke | Awesome game by the way.:) | 03:36 |
| arvut | I had one of those too, sold it to my mom and bought a 2nd hand cerwin vega 2.1 which I've used with an old yamaha amp for a few years | 03:36 |
| arvut | good stuff. logitech speakers were a rip-off compared to these | 03:36 |
| EliteTecke | I bet. | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | I used to have 5.1 surround sound system. | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | Hooked up. | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | But the speakers went. | 03:37 |
| arvut | logitech? | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | No. | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | Some other ones. | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | That came with my LG dvd player. | 03:37 |
| EliteTecke | damn old. | 03:37 |
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| EliteTecke | And yeah I region hacked the dvd player. | 03:38 |
| EliteTecke | Who wouldn't. | 03:38 |
| EliteTecke | XD>< | 03:38 |
| arvut | my neighbour blew up both soundard (intergrated ac97 7.1) and Z3 speakers (same as I had) | 03:38 |
| EliteTecke | It had a sub-woofer as well. | 03:38 |
| arvut | soundcard* | 03:38 |
| EliteTecke | I could of just blown the speakers. | 03:38 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: cause it's exactly what's going to happen when they announce they only have one single n950 to share =) | 03:38 |
| EliteTecke | But it turned out all the wiring had worn out. | 03:38 |
| EliteTecke | And some of the connectors as well. | 03:38 |
| javispedro | either way, good luck for everyone who submitted | 03:39 |
| javispedro | cya gentlemen. | 03:39 |
| arvut | mbam is finally complete, 12 infected, 2 rogue AV's and 1 rogue spyware remover among with some toolbars and other junk | 03:39 |
| arvut | lovely program that is, go mbam! and goood niight!! -.^ | 03:40 |
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| MohammadAG | lmfao javispedro | 03:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oooh - impressive! | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N9_Hardware_Main_Camera - some numbers gathered from various places indicate that - the n9 camera resolution is a fair bit better than the n900 | 03:50 |
| Ken-Young | Stop torturing us! | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Around 4.4 megapixels. | 03:51 |
| MohammadAG | the N900 was 2? | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Still way under 8 megapixels. But ~1.7mm lens is lots better | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 03:51 |
| MohammadAG | yay for night time photos | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | 0.39 milliradian resolution if I've not blown off the numbers. | 03:52 |
| * MohammadAG hopes the flash is the same as that on the N86 | 03:52 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's '20% brighter than any nokia flash' | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | that thing is almost as good as Xenon | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | any nokia LED flash | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, interesting | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course - that doesn't saaay anything about the sensitivity | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | the N86 was very bright | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | a lot brighter than two N900s combined | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | The chip is only 5.7mm diagonal - which isn't very large. | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Another question is - is that in terms of actual light output, or brightness. If it's in terms of actual light output, the brightness will be lower, as it's got to illuminate a larger angle | 03:53 |
| ShadowJK | N900 was 2Mpix? | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Somewhere of that order. The lens really handicaps it | 03:54 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, Doesn't the F 2.2 mean it will be better in low light? | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: Not quite. | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: For a given sensor, if you drop the F ratio, the image gets brighter. | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | But - not if you swap sensors. | 03:55 |
| Ken-Young | Right. | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Or decrease the QE, or ... | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | So it's a crapshoot. | 03:56 |
| Ken-Young | What is QE? | 03:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Quantum Efficiency | 03:56 |
| SpeedEvil | How many photons get turned into photoelectrons. | 03:56 |
| Ken-Young | Oh, I'd lump that in with swapping sensors. | 03:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - sorry - not very clear at this time of night. | 03:56 |
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| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, Is there any indication they are actually using a less sensitive chip? | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/ implies it's more sensitive - but the lower area means its performance in low light is similar to n8 | 03:58 |
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| Ken-Young | I'm surprised that the N950 has a four row keyboard, but the upper row isn't numeric (whichout shifting). By far my biggest complaint about the N900 keyboard is having to shift for numerals. | 04:01 |
| ShadowJK | N900 keyb makes it hard to enter IP addresses | 04:03 |
| Ken-Young | From the looks of it, they managed to make a four row keyboard for the N950 which will be no more convenient than a 3 row one would have been. | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 04:05 |
| Ken-Young | Not that I'll ever get to touch one... | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | The bigger spacebar, for example, seems - with the benefit of using the n900 for a bit - pointless | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, no camera key on the N9 means you have to launch the camera from the menu | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - I'd like xephem, or similar, with magnetometer and accel pointy goodness! :) | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | That would be a useful app on the n9. | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | And worthy of a dev device IMO. | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | But yes - time is limited. | 04:06 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, Well, I applied for a Devkit to port orrery and add magnetometer support, but I doubt I'll get one. | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - hope you're successfull. | 04:07 |
| Ken-Young | Thanks! | 04:07 |
| Ken-Young | I wonder if Meego has code to figure out magnetic declination from GPS coordinates, so that they can derive true north from magnetic north. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | There is lots of code out there to do similar. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Was recently talking with someone with commodity sensors getting ~0.1 degree heading info with a proper magnetic model and GPS. | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | That's in the range where you need to worry abou tthe ionosphere pushing the magnetism around! | 04:09 |
| Ken-Young | It's tough to do that in Northern Canada! | 04:09 |
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| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, you can see the flash in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tit5X7hH3xY&feature=player_detailpage#t=141s | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm - yes - he was in Cambridge, UK | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Difficult without a lightmeter. | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | I said see, not measure how bright it is :P | 04:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | One thing I don't like about the n9 is no hardware camera. | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | camera shutter | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | which is a pity | 04:12 |
| Ken-Young | I wish it had a cover, too. | 04:12 |
| Ken-Young | Style be damned! | 04:12 |
| biston | O_o that phone is really fast (watching the video) | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - that's what I mean by cover | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | shutter | 04:16 |
| Ken-Young | Oh, I misunderstood. | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I get fingerprints on things. | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I also want a shutter button. | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Or a magic grip | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | For example, pull phone out of pocket, and drag from both edges at the same time. | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | pinch from the edges of the display into the middle | 04:17 |
| Ken-Young | Has anyone put a folded optics camera in a cell phone? | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: It's a _damn_ huge package to put a 'proper' camera in there. | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | The n9 camera is probably of the order of 7*7*5mm | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | It's amazing the performance for a camera of its size. | 04:18 |
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| Ken-Young | Absolutely | 04:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | But sometimes you just want a damn huge lens. | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | 28mm is a bit wide | 04:21 |
| * SpeedEvil is pondering making a 2.88m^2 lens. | 04:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | Well - mirror. | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Though for solar concentration. | 04:21 |
| Ken-Young | Boils water for a steam powered phone. | 04:22 |
| MohammadAG | remind me to make a flashlight app for the N9 | 04:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: Tempting. :) | 04:22 |
| MohammadAG | or N950, if I ever get either one | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm aiming at getting some solar-DIY panels at a fair bit under a dollar a watt of PV. | 04:22 |
| Ken-Young | MohammadAG, If they don't give you an N950, they're deranged. | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Fun. | 04:23 |
| MohammadAG | I'm actually expecting they won't, idk why | 04:23 |
| MohammadAG | 250 devices, 600-700 requests, my chances are small | 04:24 |
| Ken-Young | MohammadAG, But people know how much you'd done for the N900. | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | But are those the right people? | 04:25 |
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| mrexcess | o/ - anyone know of a way to show / hide a homescreen (on the fly) | 04:58 |
| mrexcess | (n900) | 04:58 |
| mrexcess | or a icon dock that toggles on/off? | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | You can set the number of homescreens. | 05:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure you can do this truly on the fly though | 05:00 |
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| mrexcess | hmm i want to be ablte to put all my system stuff on one that hides, like conky and cmd shortcuts etc | 05:02 |
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| mbuf | what is the recommended procedure to install, use Debian on N900? | 05:10 |
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| mrexcess | http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian | 05:11 |
| mbuf | mrexcess, okay | 05:11 |
| mrexcess | pretty easy tbh just use app manager, its not running natively tho | 05:11 |
| mbuf | mrexcess, I see | 05:12 |
| mrexcess | well it run over hte top of maemo i mean | 05:12 |
| mrexcess | the* | 05:12 |
| mbuf | mrexcess, running native is possible? | 05:13 |
| mrexcess | (wtb spellcheck for pidgin) | 05:13 |
| mrexcess | not sure tbh any of the 332 other people have any idea? | 05:13 |
| Sc0rpius | 331, since I don't have a clue | 05:13 |
| mrexcess | - infobot too, also need maths checker] | 05:14 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't think running it natively is an option | 05:14 |
| Sc0rpius | you'd need drivers that are not open | 05:14 |
| mrexcess | Easy Debian uses a fully installed Debian system to run applications inside of Maemo. The Deblet project helps you install a bootable Debian system from scratch; Deblet is mainly designed for booting to an alternate OS. | 05:15 |
| Sc0rpius | for keyboard, screen, etc | 05:15 |
| mrexcess | look into deblet but its 404'ing me atm | 05:15 |
| mrexcess | dont even know if that was ever out for n900 tbh just asking uncle google | 05:16 |
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| mrexcess | heres a community plan on getting debian onto n900 btw: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_on_Debian discussion http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44967 | 05:21 |
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| mrexcess | oooold tbh id stick to easy deb and use the lxde interface | 05:22 |
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| mrexcess | its hardly nippy tbh | 05:22 |
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| mrexcess | gl o/ | 05:23 |
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| Kilroo | ...I feel as if I must be overcomplicating this. It seems unlikely that it's really this difficult to share my ipv6 beta connection with my android tablet. | 05:24 |
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| fredrin | hai | 06:55 |
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| fredrin | anyone use shr on their n900? lol | 06:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is a SHR channel I think | 06:56 |
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| fredrin | :) | 06:58 |
| fredrin | same same, but different | 06:58 |
| fredrin | will i get better battery time with suspend that 0 clock? | 06:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | Suspend to ram uses about 3mA less power. | 07:06 |
| SpeedEvil | This could lead to stabdby life of ~300-400 hours in an optimally configured system | 07:06 |
| * ShadowJK observed his spare n900 consume 3mA. (Offline mode, bq27200.sh 15) | 07:07 | |
| SpeedEvil | that was online with GSM | 07:08 |
| SpeedEvil | but in suspend mode | 07:08 |
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| cehteh | SpeedEvil: now do the calculation how long the suspend must be to conserve more power than a shutdown/reboot | 07:19 |
| cehteh | err ShadowJK | 07:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Um - no. | 07:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Suspend-disk would be the appropriate way to deal with that | 07:20 |
| cehteh | not even sure :) | 07:20 |
| cehteh | writing to flash is such a hog :P | 07:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It's about an hour, anyway | 07:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | But if you're doing that, you need to be a haxxor | 07:21 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - a limited phone app in early boot. | 07:22 |
| cehteh | some semi-deep sleep would be nice ... that is, turn off all radios, most interrupt sources and stop services which are not essential (trackerd, ...) | 07:22 |
| SpeedEvil | To be fair - services which are not essential do go dead. | 07:22 |
| SpeedEvil | On battery. | 07:22 |
| cehteh | thats why i saied trackerd :P | 07:22 |
| cehteh | someone at nokia decided trackerd is essential .. haha | 07:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I often get an average time-between wakes of 3s or so | 07:23 |
| cehteh | yes .. would be nice to extend that to tens of seconds | 07:23 |
| cehteh | (maybe even disabling the watchdogs, at least when not charging) | 07:23 |
| cehteh | hey i can configure my laptop to do that | 07:24 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders why pulseaudio has decided it's gonna burble along at 3% CPU | 07:24 | |
| cehteh | yes pa is another example | 07:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oh - media player was up. (though not playing) | 07:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm really unsure that the wake time is the actual problem leading to sleep. | 07:25 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 07:25 | |
| cehteh | anyways .. standby and otherwise idle power management isnt that shabby ... | 07:26 |
| SpeedEvil | leading to sleep current over the suspend -RAM | 07:26 |
| cehteh | if only the device would consume less power when used :P | 07:26 |
| SpeedEvil | And saving 3mA - at best - is questionable. | 07:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I meant to try reducing colour depth too. | 07:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a laptop that uses 10% less power at 4bpp | 07:26 |
| cehteh | highly depends on the graphics chipset | 07:27 |
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| cehteh | i bet the n900 graphics are only designed with one mode in mind | 07:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | Graphics chipset, LCD, RAM. | 07:27 |
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| cehteh | well no ram when the device is idle .. it completely powers down the graphics then | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | However - ram BPP is generally going to be accepted just fine with the LCD, it gets upset if you change bitrates | 07:28 |
| cehteh | idle == screen off | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I meant reducing active power | 07:28 |
| cehteh | well try it | 07:28 |
| cehteh | is there a xorg.conf? | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I should try to poke more. | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Currently working on my n950 application. | 07:29 |
| SpeedEvil | There is so much of the n900 that I haven't properly explored. | 07:29 |
| * cehteh wonders how much fun it will be when you break the xorg.conf | 07:29 | |
| SpeedEvil | Can the DMA unit be configured to stream audio from a RAM buffer to the soundcard without the CPU being awake. | 07:29 |
| cehteh | when x doesnt come up .. does sshd do .. or do the initscript count that as fatal error and do a reboot loop? | 07:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Does the helix mp3 decoder go faster on the processor? | 07:30 |
| SpeedEvil | All of the user stuff is brought up in x11.post IIRC | 07:30 |
| * cehteh better doesnt try .. tell me when it works for you | 07:31 | |
| cehteh | i dont want a bricked device and dont want to reflash :P | 07:31 |
| SpeedEvil | There are fairly risk free ways to so it. | 07:31 |
| cehteh | yes .. but i am lazy :) | 07:31 |
| SpeedEvil | You have the init script you edit, as the first thing it does - move the old script over the new | 07:32 |
| cehteh | yes go ahead | 07:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I have way too little functional tim. Trying to do more. | 07:32 |
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| dan_ | hi guys , dummy network does not show up in my internet connection list ? how do i get it to show up there ? | 07:40 |
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| fredrin | would be nice to make the n900 suspend with the use of the side knob, it only woke up by call or sms | 08:30 |
| robbiethe1st | To be fair, the N900 almost does that | 08:31 |
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| robbiethe1st | with the screen off and no programs taking much, the chip is actually off for a signifigant portion of each second, resulting in negligable power usage | 08:31 |
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| dan_ | hi guys , dummy network does not show up in my internet connection list ? how do i get it to show up there ? | 08:57 |
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| bindi | hey | 09:17 |
| bindi | I'm in windows xp mode (on top of a win7 x64) | 09:17 |
| bindi | attached the n900 (update mode) to the vm | 09:18 |
| bindi | yet flasher says "suitable usb device not found, waiting" | 09:18 |
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| dan_ | hi guys , dummy network does not show up in my internet connection list ? how do i get it to show up there ? | 09:24 |
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| mece | \o | 09:26 |
| SpeedEvil | dan_: 'dummy network' ? | 09:28 |
| SpeedEvil | o/ | 09:28 |
| dan_ | SpeedEvil ya dummy network used in USB Networking | 09:29 |
| SpeedEvil | 'internet connection list' ? | 09:29 |
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| jonwil | bah, still no closer to figuring out all this stuff I need to figure out :( | 10:01 |
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| jonwil | libconnui is really annoying me :( | 10:03 |
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| Termana | good morning | 10:05 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: What bit of it specifically? | 10:06 |
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| cloudyLights | morning | 10:07 |
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| jonwil | I am trying to figure out how to use connui_cell_net_status_close, connui_cell_net_status_register, connui_cell_net_get_operator_name, connui_cell_network_dup, connui_cell_network_free, connui_cell_sim_get_service_provider and connui_cell_sim_is_network_in_service_provider_info from libconnui_cellular | 10:08 |
| jonwil | particularly connui_cell_net_status_register/close | 10:08 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 10:08 |
| SpeedEvil | What are you wanting from it? | 10:09 |
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| jonwil | I want to be able to call those functions | 10:09 |
| jonwil | or failing that, somehow come up with functions that do exactly the same thing | 10:09 |
| SpeedEvil | have you looked at 'netmon' | 10:10 |
| jonwil | of course "do exactly the same thing" implies that somehow we have to figure out just WHAT those functions do | 10:10 |
| jonwil | and yes I have looked at netmon | 10:10 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - hang on - I think I pointed you to that last night | 10:10 |
| SpeedEvil | nvm | 10:10 |
| jonwil | yes you did | 10:10 |
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| jonwil | So far as I can tell, connui_cell_net_status_register takes a callback function | 10:12 |
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| jonwil | I either need the prototype of that callback function or to find out what information its passed | 10:13 |
| jonwil | and also what triggers a call to it | 10:13 |
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| jonwil | ARM reverse engineering is a lot harder than the x86 I am used to :( | 10:16 |
| ruskie | what are you reverse engineering? | 10:17 |
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| jonwil | libconnui | 10:19 |
| jonwil | libconnui_cellular | 10:19 |
| jonwil | as per what I am talking about with those functions | 10:19 |
| jonwil | Its annoying because libconnui is undocumented :( | 10:21 |
| jonwil | and understanding it is important for understanding any of the interesting bits in the connectivity widgets | 10:22 |
| cloudyLights | jowil: interesting , according to the netmon app I think I can | 10:23 |
| jonwil | you think you can figure what out? | 10:24 |
| cloudyLights | write aprogram to wake me up when I sense a change in location | 10:24 |
| jonwil | nice | 10:24 |
| cloudyLights | in 15 min I saw the cellular zone change and also the cellID | 10:24 |
| cloudyLights | I may also use the signal strength | 10:25 |
| cloudyLights | wish I could query signal to a certaintower | 10:25 |
| cloudyLights | certain tower | 10:25 |
| cloudyLights | so, please share your finindings | 10:25 |
| jonwil | Thats the point, I dont know how libconnui and libconnui_cellular work | 10:26 |
| jonwil | so I havent got any "findings" yet | 10:26 |
| jonwil | if I could call those libraries, a lot of things would become possible | 10:27 |
| jonwil | or easy | 10:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - I think the you get some dbus messages on signal change - at least when netmon is on | 10:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume you've tried googling the function names? | 10:27 |
| jonwil | yep | 10:27 |
| jonwil | there is a dbus signal signal_strength_change | 10:27 |
| jonwil | dont know much about it though | 10:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | also tower | 10:28 |
| jonwil | googling for "connui_cell_net_status_register" only shows some places that mirror/repost a post from me on the devel mailing list | 10:29 |
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| * RST38h yawns | 10:29 | |
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| Lorisse | Hi, i'm having problems with connecting my n900 to my mac via bluetooth. I can browse or send files to my n900 from my mac but i can't send files the other way around. Any thoughts? | 10:41 |
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| alterego | Macs are scht | 10:42 |
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| alterego | (just a thought) :P | 10:43 |
| Lorisse | well sometimes! but before, it used to work. | 10:44 |
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| Lorisse | is there a way to re-install the bluetooth on my phone? | 10:45 |
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| alterego | Must be an anti N900 service update for OS X | 10:45 |
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| MasseR | The sdk gui installer does not work in archlinux. Is there any other way to get a development environment without installing some debian derivative? | 10:47 |
| alterego | Install Fedora | 10:47 |
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| alterego | Or Open SuSe | 10:47 |
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| MasseR | s/installing some debian derivative/installing yet another different distro/ | 10:48 |
| infobot | MasseR meant: The sdk gui installer does not work in archlinux. Is there any other way to get a development environment without installing yet another different distro? | 10:48 |
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| alterego | Well, why would you install archlinux to begin with | 10:49 |
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| alterego | Nothing works with it to the point of it being pre | 10:50 |
| alterego | Nothing works with it to the point of it being pretty useless .. | 10:50 |
| MasseR | You're probably the first one (besides me) saying that D: | 10:50 |
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| alterego | Join the light side, install Ubuntu :P | 10:51 |
| * SpeedEvil is still on slackware. | 10:51 | |
| * jonwil uses Gentoo | 10:51 | |
| MasseR | alterego: Seeing what canonical does, I'd rather not | 10:51 |
| jonwil | and all the SDK stuff works just fine there :) | 10:51 |
| alterego | Though I'd install 10.10 11.04 is a bit buggy | 10:51 |
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| MasseR | Can madde still be used for maemo? | 10:51 |
| * alterego still can't tether his N900 with 11.04 :/ | 10:51 | |
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| alterego | MasseR: yes | 10:51 |
| * frals cats /etc/debian_version | 10:52 | |
| jave | i'm curious about the n950. any faq about it? | 10:52 |
| alterego | I use it for maemo, harmattan & meego | 10:52 |
| jjo | MasseR: which SDK? and how does it fail? | 10:52 |
| alterego | jave: are you a developer? | 10:52 |
| jave | yes | 10:52 |
| alterego | Then go to developer.nokia.com | 10:52 |
| jave | cool | 10:53 |
| MasseR | jjo: http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html and fails when creating a user. I tried continuing manually, but as arch no longer has hostname, I had to patch some files. After that I was able to log in and set the environments but apt couldn't update anything | 10:53 |
| alterego | http://developer.nokia.com/swipe | 10:53 |
| alterego | infact .. | 10:53 |
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| alterego | MasseR: that sounds like a horrible mess, use a better distro :P | 10:54 |
| jave | alterego: I would get it for my personal hacking, but im a dev even so | 10:54 |
| MasseR | alterego: Two weeks ago I moved from fedora which was fubar. I will not touch buntus and debians too old, so no, not right now anyway :P | 10:54 |
| jave | alterego: so im curious if its worthy upgrade from n900 | 10:55 |
| alterego | jave: well if you're not actually creating apps to share or sell, you're not getting an N950 | 10:55 |
| jave | ah ok | 10:55 |
| alterego | MasseR: then suffer. | 10:55 |
| alterego | And do it in silence :P | 10:55 |
| MasseR | alterego: So the official view of the maemo community is that ubuntu or gtfo, or is it only the official view of alterego? | 10:56 |
| jjo | MasseR: ok then. I thought I might be able to help, since I know the command line installers and the "gui installer" is just running them but that sounds "exotic" | 10:56 |
| alterego | MasseR: I told you, ubuntu or fedora or open suse | 10:56 |
| alterego | One of the major supported distros. | 10:57 |
| alterego | No one supports archlinux. | 10:57 |
| jonwil | The SDK works just fine on Gentoo FYI | 10:57 |
| MasseR | jjo: Hmm.. I'll try madde, but could you have helped with apt? That's where I got stumped | 10:57 |
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| jjo | MasseR: in maemo5 the installation can still be done manually and doing it so, would reveal the exact point where it fails | 10:58 |
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| jjo | I have a feeling that scratchbox isn't working properly or the networking inside scratchbox | 10:58 |
| jjo | if apt indeed is failing | 10:58 |
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| jjo | but by the time you'd be running apt, you should have scratchbox installed already | 10:59 |
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| MasseR | jjo: I just tried to continue where the gui failed | 10:59 |
| alterego | jjo: I think he's talking about apt from within scratchbox .. | 10:59 |
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| jjo | alterego: that's why I thought he should have sb installed :) | 11:00 |
| ruskie | hmm hmm looks like I'll need to build a fresh kernel with the mobilehotspot stuff enabled | 11:00 |
| jjo | MasseR: can you use the network connection from inside scratchbox? | 11:01 |
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| MasseR | Hold on a while, I'll try it again soon | 11:01 |
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| cloudyLights | jowel: you said you use gentoo? | 11:06 |
| jonwil | I use gentoo yes | 11:06 |
| cloudyLights | jowel: so we need to talk later | 11:06 |
| jonwil | do you use gentoo? Or do you plan to use it? | 11:06 |
| cloudyLights | jowel: I am also using gentoo at home and need advice on scratchbox | 11:06 |
| cloudyLights | now I am at work on ubuntu | 11:07 |
| jonwil | All I did was to unmask the scratchbox packages and then I was able to install scratchbox with emerge | 11:07 |
| cloudyLights | I amy just install xen and use a irtual OS for maemo develop | 11:07 |
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| MasseR | What weirds me is that the installer seems to check if user directory exists before creating it, while still giving advice on how to create it | 11:08 |
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| MasseR | And the users directory exists with both my username and 'user' | 11:09 |
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| MasseR | jjo: I'm now logged in, sb-conf says that there is no default environment. I'll create it like wiki says | 11:11 |
| jonwil | Anyone know what "cherry" is? | 11:11 |
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| MasseR | jjo: Is there any utility in sb that I can test the internet connection with? | 11:15 |
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| alterego | wget | 11:15 |
| jjo | MasseR: you could try to wget something | 11:15 |
| cloudyLights | jonwil: what are SystemNoteInfoprint ? | 11:15 |
| MasseR | Oh of course :D | 11:15 |
| MasseR | In that case network works | 11:16 |
| cloudyLights | jonwil: why should the cellular network send me a msg? | 11:16 |
| cloudyLights | sms? | 11:16 |
| jjo | interesting | 11:16 |
| MasseR | Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/etch/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz Unable to fetch file, server said 'Failed to open file. ' [IP: 130.89.149.226 21] | 11:16 |
| jonwil | dont know what SystemNoteInfoprint is, where are you getting that from? | 11:16 |
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| jjo | MasseR: that fails even in a browser | 11:16 |
| cloudyLights | netmon: notification.py line 17 | 11:16 |
| MasseR | jjo: Yup, I just checked too | 11:17 |
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| jjo | MasseR: if you extract the rootstraps, then you'll have most of the sdk already | 11:17 |
| jjo | no wait | 11:17 |
| jjo | I was thinkin g about harmattan | 11:17 |
| MasseR | :) | 11:18 |
| jjo | but extracting the rootstraps would give you the sources.list and stuff for maemo | 11:18 |
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| jjo | would be interesting to see what apt complaints then | 11:18 |
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| MasseR | jjo: Where are the rootstraps? | 11:20 |
| jjo | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/i386/ | 11:22 |
| jjo | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/armel/ | 11:23 |
| jjo | I had to look it up from the installer :) | 11:23 |
| jjo | it's been a while... | 11:23 |
| MasseR | So logout, and download the sh files | 11:26 |
| jjo | sh files? | 11:26 |
| jjo | oh yes, the command line installer | 11:27 |
| jjo | well, it's doing just that, but kinda hiding some things | 11:28 |
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| MasseR | Apt is working now :) | 11:31 |
| MasseR | Apparently the gui was only able to install sb, but nothing for the sdk, which is naturally why the apt failed | 11:31 |
| jjo | the gui side is really trying to hide things | 11:32 |
| jjo | but I guess it mostly works, haven't ever used it | 11:32 |
| MasseR | Yep. I wish there were completely manual installation instructions, but then again the wikipage isn't too up to date even as it is | 11:33 |
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| jjo | I was tehre for the few of the first fremantle releases and I think we had instructions for a manuall install | 11:33 |
| jjo | can't be sure though | 11:34 |
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| jjo | we tried to make sure you could do most thing by yourself and that the sdk would work as well as possible without closed components | 11:35 |
| jjo | later that became impossible though :( | 11:35 |
| * ruskie wonders if he'll manage to part brick his n900 with a new kernel or not... | 11:36 | |
| * jonwil wonders if the "license change requests" stuff in bugzilla ever went anywhere or if it was just a waste of time... | 11:36 | |
| jonwil | all the stuff on http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant seems like a waste of time | 11:40 |
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| MasseR | jjo: What do I do after adding the nokia repos? I suspect I should install something after it | 11:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: alas waste of time | 11:50 |
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| jonwil | I suspect that the problem with some of the requests wasnt so much "this contains stuff we cant release" but either "we dont have the resources to have a legal guy review this code and make sure its clean" or "this talks to stuff we dont want people talking to" | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | for #1, #2 not so much I guess | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite obviously Nokia dasn't want to allocate $randomnumber lawyers to things like opening bits for a dead /from their PoV) product | 11:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so unless this stuff eventually 'leaks' 'accidentally', I think the chances to go ahead with Nokia for this are exactly zero | 11:55 |
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| jonwil | I think many of the items can be solved via various community options. | 11:57 |
| jonwil | well not all of them | 11:57 |
| jonwil | but some | 11:57 |
| jonwil | new media player is being done as oss | 11:57 |
| cloudyLights | wish we could get the calender source | 11:58 |
| cloudyLights | so I can add a few fields | 11:58 |
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| jonwil | calendar, dialer, messenging are closed for product differentation/UX reasons | 11:59 |
| hiemanshu_N900 | so is there a way i can tether my gprs via wifi or usb to my laptop? (no bt sadly) | 12:00 |
| bindi | yes | 12:00 |
| bindi | on windows you need to install pc suite | 12:00 |
| ruskie | mobilehotspot | 12:00 |
| ruskie | juikospot(or whatever that other thing is) | 12:00 |
| bindi | joiku | 12:00 |
| ruskie | a few other random scripts | 12:00 |
| bindi | on ubuntu it works out of the box :> | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | yoghurt sport | 12:01 |
| bindi | i never got joiku/mobile to work | 12:01 |
| hiemanshu_N900 | isnt joiku paid? | 12:01 |
| nid0 | joiku is, mobilehotspot isnt | 12:01 |
| ruskie | hence why mobilehotspot exists | 12:01 |
| hiemanshu_N900 | ah | 12:01 |
| ruskie | and there is atleast one custom script for the same thing as well | 12:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hence why Nokia used yoghurt for N9/harmattan | 12:03 |
| hiemanshu_N900 | mobilehotspot is in -devel I assume? | 12:03 |
| nid0 | no, extras afaik | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's probably cheaper to buy that paid cruft rather than wrap their heads around mobilehotspot | 12:04 |
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| hiemanshu_N900 | DocScrutinizer: hah. well its a one time thing | 12:04 |
| hiemanshu_N900 | i forgot my 3G modem at home and this coffee shop has no wifi | 12:04 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, I do hope it'll be possible to remove it | 12:05 |
| ruskie | atleast with my insane ripping of everything from the system I can it would be nice | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: sure, any time - in developer mode | 12:05 |
| ruskie | erm... | 12:06 |
| ruskie | ugh | 12:06 |
| ruskie | ewwww | 12:06 |
| jjo | MasseR: there were some meta packages that you could select | 12:07 |
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| MasseR | jjo: Found them. Nokia-binaries and such | 12:07 |
| crashanddie | http://capslockday.com/ | 12:08 |
| jjo | yes plus memo-sdk-runtime, maemo-sdk-dev and maemo-sdk-debug | 12:08 |
| jjo | depending on what you want | 12:08 |
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| MasseR | jjo: I think the sdk installer installed them | 12:09 |
| hiemanshu_N900 | ok reboot time | 12:10 |
| MasseR | If I try to 'af-sb-init.sh start' xephyr windows gets a nice pink clock and nothing else | 12:10 |
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| jjo | MasseR: oh yes, it does | 12:10 |
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| MasseR | jjo: Seems like I don't have any themes | 12:17 |
| MasseR | The clock opens the normal panel, where I can see .. clock and the ui looks normal gtk theme | 12:17 |
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| MasseR | Should I update the sources list to fremantle-1.3? | 12:31 |
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| user0- | if you have all 3 repos enabled and an app is found in all 3 | 12:54 |
| user0- | installing it using FAM would get you the version from devel correct? | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | highest version | 12:56 |
| user0- | ty | 12:56 |
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| MasseR | Dammit I'm close to giving up | 13:03 |
| MasseR | Can't get any themes to work | 13:03 |
| MasseR | Okay this is better, at least now I got home screen looking okay | 13:07 |
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| MasseR | But all the widgets are still normal gray widgets | 13:07 |
| MasseR | Oh isn't this nice. All of the maemo links are redirected to n9. Even the user guide points to N9 | 13:11 |
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| alterego | 530 candidates for 250 devices | 13:14 |
| alterego | Not as bad as I originally thought | 13:14 |
| MasseR | Hmm.. The theme tries to load images from /etc/hildon/images o.O | 13:15 |
| MasseR | Hmm.. The theme tries to load images from /etc/hildon/theme/images o.O | 13:15 |
| psycho_oreos | if only Nokia could have produced more than just 250 | 13:15 |
| andre__ | why does everybody think that there's only 250? | 13:15 |
| psycho_oreos | there's a few places that says there's only 250 available :) | 13:16 |
| psycho_oreos | one of them is that thread | 13:16 |
| andre__ | yeah. for ***device program*** | 13:16 |
| alterego | psythere are a _lot_ more than 2250 .. | 13:16 |
| pabs3 | available != produced | 13:16 |
| alterego | Erm, There are a lot more than 250 .. | 13:16 |
| * pabs3 heard orders of magnitude more | 13:16 | |
| psycho_oreos | produced? | 13:16 |
| robbiethe1st | Figure at least 1K, probably more like 10K+ | 13:16 |
| RST38h | andre: Being only 250 of them makes the whole situation more dramatic! | 13:17 |
| robbiethe1st | some will be sold off as developer devices | 13:17 |
| robbiethe1st | some loaned | 13:17 |
| psycho_oreos | the thing is qgil stated 250, granted they maybe more however there's no concise evidence is there? | 13:18 |
| robbiethe1st | There *are* more. 250 for the OSS dev program | 13:18 |
| psycho_oreos | s/they/there/ | 13:18 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: the thing is qgil stated 250, granted there maybe more however there's no concise evidence is there? | 13:18 |
| robbiethe1st | and some for the commercial dev program | 13:18 |
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| alterego | psycho_oreos: there is plenty of evidence there is | 13:18 |
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| alterego | psycho_oreos: quim only said that there were 250 for the MeeGo.com developer programme | 13:18 |
| robbiethe1st | ...I wonder: So, say you get one of these devices as a loan, and manage to lose it, or have it stolen. You can't exactly just replace it, nor can any insurance company... what would you do? | 13:18 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: if you're a developer you can try your luck at developer.nokia.com/swipe | 13:19 |
| robbiethe1st | Especially as it's only a Loan from Nokia? | 13:19 |
| lardman | Presumably you would then move to an N9 | 13:19 |
| psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, sure enough but if that was the case why does it only appear that the only way one can obtain it is through the develop program? | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | robbiethe1st: You'll be banned for ever. | 13:19 |
| lardman | X-Fade: that too ;) | 13:19 |
| andre__ | robbiethe1st, IANAL | 13:19 |
| alterego | robbiethe1st: it's a loan, but quim said, when the N9 is released it will be possible for those that have got an N950 from the MeeGo DDP can either keep it or trade it for an N9 | 13:19 |
| robbiethe1st | Interesting | 13:20 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, yes but there's no evidence of exactly how many were produced :) | 13:20 |
| alterego | robbiethe1st: if you lose, break, or damage it in anyway, then you're silly :P | 13:20 |
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| jaska | not sure which sane person would trade a n950 for n9 | 13:20 |
| alterego | And no, no warranty, no replacements. | 13:20 |
| lardman | When do we find out if we've qualified, that's the question - though someone may have already answered that | 13:20 |
| alterego | jaska: I will, if I can't get an N9 any other way. | 13:20 |
| lardman | jaska: Yeah, but in terms of dev hw | 13:20 |
| psycho_oreos | I think you might get an email if you were selected | 13:20 |
| alterego | The N9 will at least get more support than an N950, we don't even know if the N950 will get updated in line with the N9 | 13:21 |
| robbiethe1st | alterego: Yea, that makes sense, but my real question was: would you have to pay Nokia back for the lost device, and if so, what sort of value would they use? | 13:21 |
| * pabs3 wonders if the 280 folks who will miss out on the MeeGo N950 program would have a chance to buy or otherwise get an N950 | 13:21 | |
| alterego | robbiethe1st: neah | 13:21 |
| lardman | pabs3: are there 530 requests in then? | 13:21 |
| alterego | pabs3: like I said, if you can't get one through the DDP, then go direct to developer.nokia.com/swipe with your proposals. | 13:21 |
| alterego | lardman: quim just said 530 applicants on twitter | 13:21 |
| lardman | oh ok | 13:21 |
| robbiethe1st | I've heard of people losing their N900s(or frying them via getting water/etc spilled on, etc)... | 13:21 |
| psycho_oreos | pabs3, I'd love to get N950 if I can't get it through dev program. I wouldn't want to put up with a N9 unless I really had no other choice | 13:22 |
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| robbiethe1st | psycho_oreos: Same here. N9 = not interesting. N950 is interesting. | 13:22 |
| alterego | robbiethe1st: you're not under any liability with the DDP, they're not going to get hitmen or bailiffs if you break it ;) | 13:22 |
| robbiethe1st | OK, that's good. | 13:23 |
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| psycho_oreos | N900 is a different case lol, I think there's still shops that sells N900, N950 is like a `rareified' thing. If you lose it/destroy it/etc you pretty much won't have another chance at owning one unless you work inside Nokia for instance ;) | 13:23 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 13:23 |
| alterego | Or you have good friends ;) | 13:24 |
| jaska | this being rare loot irritates me :| | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | 'I accidentally sold it on ebay' | 13:24 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah people networking | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Rare is silly. | 13:24 |
| psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, though if N950 isn't available through any other means than for one to be a developer and the time limit to join was up, would you get N9 instead? or would you just completely give up the whole Nokia meego move? | 13:25 |
| robbiethe1st | Sold on ebay nothing; Not knowing that you might get a chance to keep your N950, I was wondering how many people might, at the end of their loan, decide to keep it and proclaim it lost. Sure, you couldn't use it on the cellphone network, but... | 13:25 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: move? You mean the last of it's kin ;) | 13:25 |
| psycho_oreos | rare isn't silly, N950 wasn't made public which clearly indicates Nokia only wants to give out as little units as they can | 13:26 |
| robbiethe1st | psycho_oreos: N900+OC+Harmatton would be the next choice | 13:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if they're actually going to bother asking for them back at the end of the term. | 13:26 |
| SpeedEvil | 3yo phones are not worth much | 13:26 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, well I could also mean move on ;) | 13:26 |
| robbiethe1st | ...Or just keep messing with the N900 until some more decent meego devices will come out. | 13:26 |
| psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, *nods* | 13:27 |
| MasseR | Is there btw any official updates for N900 anymore? | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Having said that - earlier there was a corporate dev that found one in a drawer. | 13:27 |
| robbiethe1st | No. | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Unloved by the company. | 13:27 |
| psycho_oreos | N950 | 13:27 |
| psycho_oreos | ? | 13:27 |
| MasseR | So N900 is 'dead' except for the community | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | That's the sort of phone it'd probably end up better on ebay | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 13:27 |
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| psycho_oreos | damn! sounds like there's plenty of love if that were to be sold :D | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | There are no new n900 official updates | 13:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Since last year sometime | 13:28 |
| SpeedEvil | feb? Mar? | 13:28 |
| MohammadAG | so, anyone got an email for an N950? | 13:28 |
| psycho_oreos | I personally haven't | 13:28 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: they'll be sent out by the end of the week, don't panic :P | 13:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Not me. | 13:28 |
| alterego | The deadline is not even up yet. | 13:28 |
| MasseR | Damn these themes :D. | 13:28 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, though they did mention 28th of June for applications on that forum thread :) | 13:29 |
| lardman | nor have I, but wasn't the closing date today? Or are we thinking of the comment about some obvious decisions being made before today? | 13:29 |
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| alterego | psycho_oreos: it is still the 28th of June ;) | 13:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | yeah the thread was dated end of applications 28th of June | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | given the way the council elections used to be organized, I don't expect any email at all :-P | 13:29 |
| Hurrian | since the n950's a loaner device, wont they collect them after 3 years? | 13:29 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: quim literally said a few minutes ago that all need to be in "by tomorrow" presumable to save people hassle from time zones. | 13:30 |
| Hurrian | not exactly what i'd put on ebay | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, leaving town on 7/7, no address there | 13:30 |
| alterego | Hurrian: actually you'll probably only have the N950 for a few months | 13:30 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, *shrugs* I guess its a matter of waiting and hoping :) | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | so if I do get the device, I'll have to delay that | 13:30 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: once you get the coupon code, you can "order" it anytime you like. | 13:30 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, its also funny to note that he didn't mention which timezone was it. So I had to sort of compensate by going against my timezone (GMT+10H) | 13:31 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders 'clear cases'. Eldar, of course. | 13:31 | |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: that is why I think he said tomorrow, so basically anyone submitting before 23:59 tonight in any timezone ;) | 13:31 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: anyway, Quim is currently in Europe :P | 13:32 |
| psycho_oreos | someone also said in the other channel about TexRat processed 400 (!!) odd applications already | 13:32 |
| Hurrian | how much do we have to spend to pay someone to design the PCBs from a modified N900 schematic and produce them? | 13:32 |
| * lardman looks for a goat to sacrifice to the N950 selection committee Gods | 13:32 | |
| Hurrian | i'm guessing $$$$$$ | 13:32 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I'm leaving for a month or two :p | 13:32 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, true but which part? ;) anyhow I guess I'll just hang tight and hope :D | 13:32 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: give me your coupon code, I'll look after it for you ;) | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Hurrian: you can't get the nokia modem parts | 13:32 |
| * MohammadAG passes one abill_uk to lardman | 13:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | Hurrian: you'd need to redesign it | 13:32 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: Finland :P | 13:32 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, ahh! | 13:33 |
| * lardman gets his most blunt sacrificial knife | 13:33 | |
| * SpeedEvil gets his sacrificial pillow. | 13:33 | |
| robbiethe1st | SpeedEvil: Buy a few broken N900s, yank the chips off? | 13:33 |
| psycho_oreos | Hurrian, I suppose instead of starting from scratch, you could probably base some of the ideas off that OM device.. too bad it lacks plenty of things that N900 has | 13:33 |
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| jaska | wouldnt a sacrificial wooden spoon hurt more | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (delay) no issue as you get a token to receive your device from devel.nokia.com. I don't think the token epires | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | expires* | 13:34 |
| Hurrian | speedevil , we can't just buy replacement BB5 chips? | 13:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | No | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, alterego beat me to it | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | psycho_oreos , OpenMoko is the very definition of fragmentation | 13:35 |
| robbiethe1st | Any other cheap nokia phones have that chip? | 13:35 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm sure if one's token expires, they can just ask qgil :) its like Nokia is planning to chuck the device elsewhere however :) | 13:35 |
| MohammadAG | I'll delay the trip, if I'm accepted anyways | 13:35 |
| lardman | jaska: good call | 13:35 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: seriously, I'll look after it for you ;) | 13:36 |
| psycho_oreos | Hurrian, granted but at least for the running hardware stuff to get one started its not too bad of a start comparing to starting from literally a clean slate.. or maybe even a beagle board :) | 13:36 |
| Hurrian | if we can't get an embedded BB, we can just use some USB 3G baseband | 13:36 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, aww, how nice of you | 13:36 |
| Hurrian | then again, we can trash the n900's awful positioning of components and start from scratch with an all new SOC | 13:36 |
| MohammadAG | Actually I have an address where I'm going, but I wouldn't trust that place | 13:37 |
| robbiethe1st | What about going to an oem like Aeva for such a device? | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: Hurrian: (modem parts) you can get - buy a 5800 or whatever ;-) | 13:37 |
| MohammadAG | I'd expect the N950 would be stolen/sold if I send it there | 13:37 |
| jaska | theyd probably charge you thru the nose | 13:37 |
| psycho_oreos | Aava? they're mainly interested in x86 platform mind you :) | 13:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, yes. | 13:38 |
| psycho_oreos | what about those chinese knockoff clones? I'm sure you might be able to ask them for some of the modem parts that they used ;) | 13:38 |
| jaska | x86 is fine.. if you happen to have invented some sort of vacuum energy source | 13:38 |
| robbiethe1st | Hey, they got 4hrs+ of WoW out of that prototype Aeva phone, so... | 13:38 |
| robbiethe1st | Our N900 can't do more than 2 hours of CPU pegged... | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: Most of the chinese knockoffs are gprs | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: do you trust your neighbours? | 13:39 |
| Hurrian | robbiethe1st: that would cost $$$$$$$$$ than $$$$$$ it would require to self-design the board and produce enough for TMO | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: NB you can choose arbitrary shipping addr | 13:40 |
| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, true but not all :) | 13:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | they (Aava Oy) haven't released the specs of their Aava mobile, so its not a fair competition imo ;) | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | naaw, guys. If you're going to build a N900 replica, you want to go for modem module | 13:41 |
| psycho_oreos | it might even be equipped with 2000+ MAh battery | 13:41 |
| psycho_oreos | s/MAh/mAh/ | 13:42 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: it might even be equipped with 2000+ mAh battery | 13:42 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no, I only trust my address for this kind of stuff :P | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | a module like that one: | 13:42 |
| Hurrian | Doc : completely right ;) | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | a module like that one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420 | 13:42 |
| MohammadAG | if the device was mine that's one thing | 13:42 |
| mece | alterego, your (I guess you're @thomasswindell) tweets made me nervous. I had been able to block that out all day... | 13:42 |
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| Hurrian | completely upgradeable, replaceable parts | 13:42 |
| MohammadAG | but it's Nokia's | 13:42 |
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| alterego | mece: yes, that's me ;) | 13:43 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: use my shipping address! | 13:43 |
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| Hurrian | too bad nokia's not letting devs buy devkits :( | 13:43 |
| kerio | Hurrian: i bet that's elop's strategy | 13:44 |
| kerio | "we don't have any devs for the meego platform" | 13:44 |
| Hurrian | they'll probably throw the devices in the bin after collecting them | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, IF I get accepted | 13:44 |
| Hurrian | anyone in finland want to dumpster-dive nokia? | 13:44 |
| mece | MohammadAG, can haz url to enhanced lockscreen git plz? | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG | maemo5-foss-lockscreen | 13:44 |
| jaska | they probably destroy protos | 13:44 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm hoping at the end of one's loaned term, one has a choice to either keep it or trade it for N9.. by then I'm sure the majority of the devs would prefer to keep N950. If that's not the case I think people will think of ways to retain their N950 :) | 13:44 |
| mece | Hurrian, I've got a friend in hw design.. what do you need? | 13:45 |
| MohammadAG | mece, add that after gitorious.org/ | 13:45 |
| mece | MohammadAG, thanks | 13:45 |
| Hurrian | mece, still thinking what the hell should a community device have | 13:45 |
| Hurrian | psycho_oreos , fake identities? | 13:45 |
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| mece | Hurrian, oh.. :) | 13:46 |
| mece | MohammadAG, well it was a little bit more complicated it seems.. https://gitorious.org/maemo5-foss-lockscreen/enhanced-lockscreen | 13:46 |
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| MohammadAG | mece, I'm on the N900, sue me :P | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | I should figure out where my Nokia Developer emails go | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | or MeeGo.com ones for that matter | 13:47 |
| mece | MohammadAG, np :) | 13:47 |
| psycho_oreos | Hurrian, they'll have their own ways I think :). It would be absolutely ludicruous imo for the devs to have to cough up these loaned devices after having developed with them. Furthermore what is Nokia going to do with all these used N950? dump it? what a waste of perfectly useful hardware and keeping it out of people's hands | 13:47 |
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| alterego | Quim said we'll have yes/no email notifications | 13:48 |
| alterego | So we'll all know either way, btw. | 13:48 |
| pabs3 | excellent | 13:49 |
| MohammadAG | no notifications? /me cries | 13:49 |
| Hurrian | psycho_oreos , well, what better way to kill off the "keyboard devices" maemo people want than to collect and dump them? | 13:50 |
| psycho_oreos | in the very least I hope if Nokia is that understanding, they should sell the loaned N950 as a way of showing some appreciation to the parties involved. If they were to destroy it after collecting it all back, its just a waste and showing the lack of love | 13:50 |
| Hurrian | anyways, it'd be interesting to see nokia's dumpsters after they've collected them | 13:50 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if non-devs applied | 13:50 |
| MohammadAG | the 700+ applications seem weird | 13:50 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: Nokia have a great recycling programme .. | 13:50 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: 530 as of 20 minutes ago | 13:50 |
| psycho_oreos | Hurrian, I don't think they'd just dump them... they probably crush it. In either case I think its unlikely and its really waste of resource in the first place | 13:50 |
| Jaffa | I bet lots of non-devs applied. | 13:51 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, yeah that's what I thought | 13:51 |
| alterego | 700 is what I said yesterday when Quim said 250 x 3 :P | 13:51 |
| Jaffa | I also bet the "loan" is exactly like the N900 & ExoPC | 13:51 |
| mece | MohammadAG, I'm guessing a lot of would-be-devs applied | 13:51 |
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| Jaffa | i.e. it's a legal instrument to avoid taxes/gifts etc. | 13:51 |
| MohammadAG | we don't have that many devs | 13:51 |
| Jaffa | The return request will never be actioned | 13:51 |
| Hurrian | if they don't dump them, i'm heading straight to eBay and F5ing like the fist of the north star | 13:51 |
| mece | Jaffa, I REALLY hope so. But not as much as I hop I'll actually get the damn thing. | 13:51 |
| mece | khertan_, khteditor for harmattan ready yet? | 13:51 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, more devs than those that use irc | 13:51 |
| alterego | Jaffa: did anyone actually send the Amsterdam protos back? | 13:51 |
| Jaffa | alterego: I know people were asking if people still had the address. I just stayed quiet. | 13:52 |
| khertan_ | mece, not really | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, talk.maemo.org has like 20 devs | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG | 50 at most | 13:52 |
| mece | alterego, @thomaslp still has his at least. | 13:52 |
| alterego | mece: I know a few people that still have theirs | 13:52 |
| khertan_ | mece, i was waiting for answer on how to do complex text with this dumb qml | 13:52 |
| alterego | I know one person that got his replaced via Nokia Care after the USB port came out | 13:52 |
| ruskie | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone <-- could see this applying to all the touch-only devices ;) | 13:52 |
| lcuk | khertan_, one rectangle per character | 13:53 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, so that's 250*2.x | 13:53 |
| khertan_ | lcuk, and one cpu to manage each line ? :) | 13:53 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: yes, but I'm just going by what Quim is saying :P | 13:53 |
| Jaffa | alterego: I think I got mine replaced because of audio drop out. | 13:53 |
| khertan_ | lcuk, we are talking of qml ... :) | 13:53 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I hit a brick wall with QML yesterday | 13:53 |
| mece | MohammadAG, what was the wall? | 13:53 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: what wall is that? | 13:53 |
| lcuk | khertan_, sure | 13:53 |
| * Jaffa looks forward to using achipa's code at dAG> alterego, I hit a brick wall with QML yesterday | 13:53 | |
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| * Jaffa looks forward to using achipa's code at https://projects.developer.nokia.com/qtinfo/browser/trunk/qtquickinfolib/qtquickinfo.cpp to detect Qt Quick Component being present | 13:54 | |
| Jaffa | ..and set a different root file in that circumstance. | 13:54 |
| achipa | Jaffa: it ain't pretty, but it does work until we have something more elegant | 13:54 |
| * khertan_ reach the normandy wall each time it try to do qml | 13:54 | |
| khertan_ | s/it/he | 13:54 |
| mece | achipa, wait, what does it do exactly? | 13:55 |
| Jaffa | achipa: I'd tried something similar but hadn't got the convenience of the QDeclarativeView and the knowledge to check stats() == Ready | 13:55 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, you need to use .cpp to make qml changes? | 13:55 |
| lcuk | do you use "sed" to do the change? | 13:55 |
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| alterego | You don't need to load separate main.qml files to select which qt-components you're using | 13:55 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, suppose I have a signal, urlChanged(string url) | 13:55 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: No, I'm going to have main.cpp set the root QML element to either one which imports com.meego and uses a PageStackWindow containing my app's Main.qml, or set the root to Main.qml directly. | 13:55 |
| alterego | Not realy, it can all be done in QML, as long as you have a flag that says: "meego-ux-components", "qt-components" or "none" | 13:55 |
| MohammadAG | I can handle that with onUrlChanged | 13:55 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: m'hmm | 13:56 |
| MohammadAG | how do I get "url" from the signal? | 13:56 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Really? How? There seem to be *no* examples of that | 13:56 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: onUrlChanged: function(url) {console.log(url)} | 13:56 |
| alterego | Jaffa: well, it'd still require a C++ plugin to detect the presence of qt-components, or meego-ux-components | 13:56 |
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| alterego | Jaffa: I'm just saying you don't really need to have separate main.qml files .. | 13:57 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, what's with function(url)? | 13:57 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: it defines a function | 13:57 |
| MohammadAG | yes but why? :p | 13:57 |
| alterego | Which is called onUrlChanged signal | 13:57 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: so you can specify the parameters. | 13:58 |
| alterego | I _think_ you can just do: onUrlChanged: {console.log(url)} | 13:58 |
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| alterego | Where 'url' matches the _exact_ name of the parameter in the SIGNAL definition. | 13:58 |
| alterego | (I think that should work) | 13:59 |
| mece | alterego, Id use a property.. | 13:59 |
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| alterego | mece: this is MohammadAG's code, and you don't even know what he's doing :P | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Yeah, I got that - but doesn't the "import" blow up? | 13:59 |
| alterego | Jaffa: not if you do that bit at runtime. | 13:59 |
| mece | alterego, yep I understand. | 13:59 |
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| mece | MohammadAG, is the signal coming from some external object? | 14:00 |
| Jaffa | alterego: I'm not sure how you're structuring the code then... Some Loader trick? | 14:00 |
| alterego | Jaffa: you can dynamically create QML components at runtime, through the use of string source, or runtime loading of a .qml file. | 14:00 |
| MohammadAG | external component | 14:00 |
| alterego | Jaffa: effectively yes, a loader trick | 14:00 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I don't know what I'm doing tbh :P | 14:00 |
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| mece | MohammadAG, you can put a property that aliases url on the external component, and in the (not external) component you do an <external component>.onUrlChanged: { do something with <external component>.url } | 14:01 |
| mece | MohammadAG, that way url is available outside the external component | 14:02 |
| mece | MohammadAG, there are many other ways | 14:02 |
| mece | depending on what you're trying to do :) | 14:02 |
| frals | alterego: when doing onXChanged you can use X in the signal handler | 14:04 |
| frals | (re: < alterego> I _think_ you can just do: onUrlChanged: {console.log(url)}) | 14:04 |
| frals | ie no need for a function to specify parameters | 14:04 |
| mece | frals, :) | 14:04 |
| frals | even then you dont even have to specify the paramters in the defintion | 14:05 |
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| frals | you can do function bla() and reference using arguments[0] | 14:05 |
| frals | with the possibility that the array is not called arguments but something similar | 14:05 |
| alterego | frals: yeah, that's what I thougth | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, the other brick wall would be accessing C++ methods from QML | 14:06 |
| MohammadAG | since this is something with #defines | 14:06 |
| frals | why is c++ methods from qml a problem? O_o | 14:06 |
| * frals has not read whole convo btw | 14:06 | |
| alterego | MohammadAG: you just declare them as public slots and bind the object instance to the QML root context. | 14:06 |
| frals | Q_INVOKABLE | 14:07 |
| frals | (iirc) | 14:07 |
| alterego | Or mark the as Q_INVOKABLE, which does the same thing | 14:07 |
| alterego | I prefer just making them Q_SLOTS | 14:07 |
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| mece | or create an object, set it to the rootcontext and access methods directly from there. | 14:07 |
| alterego | mece: that's exactly what I said :P | 14:07 |
| mece | alterego, ah yes. missed that one. | 14:08 |
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| frals | wonder what setting it as rootcontext does to memory usage, if anything | 14:09 |
| * frals needs to read up on how that works | 14:09 | |
| mece | jaffa, that nfc hub thing you tweeted about is awesome. but now, even if I get the dev device I still don't have nfc :/ | 14:10 |
| alterego | mece: quim said you can swap N950 for N9 on release | 14:11 |
| alterego | If you do so please. | 14:11 |
| mece | alterego, i don't want to! | 14:11 |
| alterego | Well, that's your problem :P | 14:11 |
| mece | alterego, but I'll buy one. | 14:11 |
| alterego | mece: that's the way to do it :) | 14:11 |
| mece | alter :) | 14:11 |
| mece | alterego, :) contract on N900 is up in november anyway | 14:12 |
| mece | alterego, might as well get a new one | 14:12 |
| frals | tbh, i prefer using my n9 over the n950... | 14:12 |
| frals | not that i ever give up the n950 willingly | 14:12 |
| mece | frals, do you code on device? | 14:12 |
| alterego | mece: neat, I've got two dormant contracts that are up but I reduced their service plans to a minimum whilst waiting for possible ideas for upgrades. | 14:12 |
| frals | mece: not atm, i guess that would be the reason to have the n950 ;) | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: why? | 14:12 |
| mece | frals, that is the reason I want it. | 14:13 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: unless i use ssh+irssi, the vkb is good enough for me | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: why you prefer N9? | 14:13 |
| Corsac | hmhm, do people applying to the dev device started to receive updates? the “final” day is supposed to be today isn't it? | 14:13 |
| frals | the screen and feeling of n9 is just... *drool* | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 14:13 |
| mece | frals, it is sexytiems | 14:13 |
| frals | and my n9 is pink ;D | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 14:13 |
| lcuk | frals, do you still have your girly pillow too? | 14:14 |
| mece | frals, and I understand completely. For general phoning and playing around I'd love the N9. | 14:14 |
| * lcuk is worried about you :P | 14:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hanna montana phone | 14:14 |
| mece | LOL | 14:14 |
| lcuk | haha | 14:14 |
| frals | lcuk: the pink hello kitty pillow is my gfs! ;) | 14:14 |
| lcuk | yeah right! | 14:14 |
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| alterego | Corsac: the deadline is 23:59 tonight in your timezone, you'll get yes/no email by the end of the week | 14:15 |
| frals | lcuk: ;) | 14:15 |
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| lcuk | frals, since you are an awesome developer we will let you have your oddities :P | 14:16 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: however, if i know ill be spending some time where twitter/facebook/other websites wont be enough id bring the n950 so i could irc comfortably | 14:16 |
| mece | lcuk, does that mean I'm not allowed oddities? | 14:17 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:17 |
| Corsac | alterego: ok, thanks | 14:17 |
| lcuk | mece, no, but we do have to redefine oddities just for you :P | 14:17 |
| mece | LOL | 14:18 |
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| mece | Riussi, yay, moar n9 videos! | 14:20 |
| Corsac | url? | 14:20 |
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| mece | oh damn, it wasn't a video | 14:20 |
| mece | Corsac, http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/28/nokia-n9-opening-the-browser | 14:21 |
| alterego | bbiab | 14:23 |
| Hurrian | what the, are they forcing use of arial and nokia sans in the browser? | 14:23 |
| Hurrian | shoot me. | 14:23 |
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| cloudyLights | DocScrutinizer what is cellular RNC ID? | 14:24 |
| cloudyLights | I see it in netmon | 14:24 |
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| Jaffa | alterego: (Belatedly) OK, so there are multiple QML files, but the root one makes the decision (via an Item and a Loader) rather than the main.cpp? | 14:25 |
| mece | Hurrian, I doubt that... | 14:26 |
| mece | Hurrian, but it does seem to display mobile websites, which makes me cry a little inside | 14:27 |
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| * lardman feels exhausted, that was a rubbish paper I just reviewed | 14:27 | |
| lardman | so what do we know about the camera app, is it plugable? | 14:27 |
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| Hurrian | mece ++ | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cloudyLights: no idea | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | O here | 14:33 |
| Hurrian | nokia, y u no use desktop user-agent | 14:33 |
| cloudyLights | jonwil: what is RNC? | 14:33 |
| lardman | cloudyLights: Google? Comes up with some techno-speak for it | 14:33 |
| cloudyLights | rnc id | 14:33 |
| jonwil | I have no idea what RNC is | 14:34 |
| cloudyLights | I dont understand what google answered | 14:34 |
| lardman | http://www.scribd.com/doc/51148270/16/RNC-IDENTITY | 14:34 |
| cloudyLights | a sort of ID? | 14:34 |
| cloudyLights | for the cellular subscribber? | 14:34 |
| cloudyLights | so - it doesnt change... | 14:34 |
| lardman | radio network controller id | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q="rnc+id"+gsm | 14:35 |
| cloudyLights | my is 61 | 14:35 |
| alterego | Jaffa: that's the idea yeah. | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: now THAT IS ONE POS of a page you linked up there | 14:37 |
| lardman | docscrutinizer: The wonders of Google ;) | 14:37 |
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| lardman | it did say what the acronym stands for, or at least it sounded reasonable :) | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | loading 2 minutes, ~600 picures loading. Then displaying broken useless shit | 14:38 |
| lardman | ouch | 14:38 |
| lardman | ah well FF5 actually worked on that page, rather than using 100% of one of my cores for the plugin-container process | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | RNC ID == ID of the controller of a node-B (UMTS BTS) | 14:41 |
| alterego | I think we're about to have a rather interesting storm .. | 14:41 |
| lardman | alterego: metaphorical? | 14:42 |
| MasseR | \o/ sdk installed. Took me like 5 hours | 14:42 |
| alterego | No, the thunder is literally deafening :D | 14:43 |
| lardman | oh right, it's actually brightening up here | 14:43 |
| alterego | I think I'll record this shit when it starts :D | 14:43 |
| lardman | alterego: as long as you're not using mains power ;) | 14:44 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | cloudyLights: used to construct long CellIDs: Long CID=99494171. 99494171 / 65536 = 1518 Rest 10523 -> RNC==1518, short CID=10523 | 14:44 |
| alterego | Turned off all plugs for the next few hours, running off batteries ;) | 14:44 |
| * lardman wonders about phone lines.... | 14:44 | |
| lardman | I guess a wireless hub is pretty cheap to replace | 14:45 |
| cloudyLights | thnaks | 14:45 |
| alterego | I'm using 3G | 14:46 |
| alterego | starting to rain :) | 14:46 |
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| * RST38h reMoos | 15:15 | |
| RST38h | So, what have I missed? | 15:15 |
| cloudyLights | last night I saw some comparation between thr N9 and the N950 | 15:16 |
| cloudyLights | they had pictures of the N950 in black | 15:17 |
| cloudyLights | what is the processor in the N9/950? | 15:17 |
| cloudyLights | 1Ghz? dual core? new omap right | 15:17 |
| psycho_oreos | TI OMAP 3530 | 15:17 |
| psycho_oreos | no dual core | 15:17 |
| cloudyLights | probably a dsp, | 15:17 |
| cloudyLights | what is the dsp used for? | 15:18 |
| lardman | video decoding presumably like on the n900 | 15:19 |
| cloudyLights | powerVR ... | 15:19 |
| lardman | is for opengl es not e.g. mpeg | 15:20 |
| psycho_oreos | s/5/6/ | 15:20 |
| RST38h | lardman: BTW, got an android 2.3 gadget and DDMS nearby? | 15:20 |
| lardman | not nearby, Tab w/ 2.3 at home | 15:20 |
| lardman | what's DDMS? | 15:20 |
| RST38h | lardman: the tool required to view debug messages printed from android apps | 15:21 |
| lardman | ah ok, well I should have that too from the SDK | 15:21 |
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| lardman | RST38h: do you need something debugged? | 15:22 |
| lardman | I won't have time this evening, off to see TF3, but can bring the Tab in with me tomorrow and do live debugging if that would be of use? | 15:23 |
| * lardman checks to see that there's a Windows version of the SDK | 15:23 | |
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| Jaffa | You know how we were discussing forum.meego.com going TMO-like yesterday? It's already started | 15:25 |
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| lardman | probably just an effect of a forum | 15:26 |
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| lardman | tmo was ok before many people actually used or cared about the devices | 15:26 |
| ilon | is there any way to make a "share image" (usally for upload to facebook/flickr) to upload to a server using SSH? | 15:27 |
| lardman | Jaffa: perhaps a forum which requires a valid IMEI to access it? :) | 15:27 |
| ilon | basicly, i have a webserver, and want to be able to easy publish photos etc to it, should be possible thru the use of pub-key for ssh | 15:27 |
| Corsac | ilon: there's a command line sharing plugin | 15:28 |
| Corsac | which you can give a ssh command to | 15:28 |
| Termana | lardman, most of the bozos on tmo are owners anyway | 15:28 |
| Termana | (unfortunately) | 15:28 |
| lardman | Termana: yeah, but that's the danger of releasing to more than just devs | 15:28 |
| ilon | Corsac: would it be possible to integrate in the GUI as a service? | 15:29 |
| ilon | Corsac: http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1783&faq=37 seems like something similair for FTP, but requires a pixelpipe account | 15:30 |
| Corsac | ilon: it's already a service? | 15:31 |
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| ilon | Corsac: not that i know of | 15:32 |
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| Corsac | then I guess you're wrong? | 15:33 |
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| ilon | Corsac: which one are you talking about then? | 15:33 |
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| Corsac | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/sharing-cli/ ? | 15:34 |
| ilon | Corsac: yeah, that is still CLI tho. | 15:34 |
| ilon | Corsac: what i asked about was a one integrated in the GUI | 15:34 |
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| Corsac | it *is* integrated in the gui | 15:34 |
| Corsac | you just have to configure the service once | 15:34 |
| ilon | Corsac: the i will just shut up and read. :) | 15:34 |
| Corsac | then you just share like any sharing service | 15:35 |
| ilon | Corsac: and thank you very much. | 15:35 |
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| RST38h | lardman: frankly, yes | 15:36 |
| RST38h | Jaffa,lardman: the solution to the cancer problem is relatively well known | 15:37 |
| RST38h | Not a perfect solution, but.... | 15:37 |
| RST38h | You let people post and comment based on merit | 15:37 |
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| RST38h | Start by having invites, where a user has to be invited to the forum by the existing user | 15:38 |
| RST38h | This alone will cut down on the biomass | 15:38 |
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| lardman | having rules for where people can post depending on their post count, and having people moderate and remove those who post rubbish might also work | 15:39 |
| RST38h | If this is not enough, limit new users to comments only (no new threads) with a certain limit of comments per day/week. | 15:39 |
| lardman | yep | 15:39 |
| RST38h | lardman: Moderation usually just causes turmoil | 15:39 |
| RST38h | lardman: And a local repeats of the Lords of the Flies | 15:40 |
| RST38h | s/a// | 15:40 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: lrdman: And a local repeats of the Lords of the Flies | 15:40 |
| lardman | depends what the mods are out to achieve | 15:40 |
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| lardman | though perhaps it will always happen no matter what | 15:41 |
| RST38h | lardman: Oh, all moderation ends up in the same way | 15:41 |
| RST38h | lardman: It is a social thing, and not a pretty one | 15:41 |
| RST38h | So, it is better to *NOT* moderate, or stick to very technical barebones moderation | 15:41 |
| RST38h | Besides I can give you a plenty of forum cancer examples that do not violate any posting rules, such as 100 lemmings complaining that "CSSU bricked their device" | 15:42 |
| lcuk | RST38h, do you happen to visit a forum for your suffering? | 15:43 |
| lcuk | is there a collective of you | 15:43 |
| lardman | lcuk: he's channeling our collective pain | 15:44 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Nah, we are all nice and comfortable inside our skull. You? =) | 15:44 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, i am a little sleep deprived but otherwise sane | 15:46 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Ah, denial is how it always starts ;) | 15:46 |
| lcuk | lardman, tracy managed the birth on 2 paracetamol | 15:46 |
| lcuk | she was saving the strong drugs until she needs it | 15:46 |
| lcuk | nahhh RST38h I have a note from my doctor | 15:46 |
| lardman | lcuk: I saw you mentioned that somewhere | 15:46 |
| lardman | good going | 15:47 |
| RST38h | lcuk: falsified, no doubt. | 15:47 |
| lardman | I think the less I say to Holly about pain the better | 15:47 |
| lcuk | lo lrst | 15:47 |
| lcuk | lardman, holly knows. | 15:47 |
| lardman | yeah, but I feel a bit harsh mentioning it | 15:47 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: Resident Evil: Mercenaries 3D for the Nintendo 3DS will be an experience that can be completed once per customer. Using a single, unwipable save slot Capcom ensures that a second hand customer gets a second rate experience. | 15:48 |
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| lcuk | lardman, make her feel better, tell her about the time you once endured a papercut or something! | 15:48 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, was just reading that, what if same person wants to try game again | 15:48 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah I did graze my knuckle yesterday fiddling with a door, very painful ;) | 15:48 |
| lcuk | heh | 15:48 |
| lcuk | to make tracy feel better she has been playing with n8 today | 15:49 |
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| alterego | Heh | 15:49 |
| lardman | bored of the new baby already? ;) | 15:49 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I do not think Capcom cares. | 15:50 |
| RST38h | Actually, there is an even funnier piece of the news today: http://adage.com/article/news/consumer-divide-decide-marketing-s-winners-losers/228414/ | 15:52 |
| lcuk | lardman, photos of the baby | 15:53 |
| lcuk | and not really too much that can be done whilst he is feeding | 15:53 |
| lardman | true | 15:54 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Wait until she discovers the video option =) | 15:55 |
| lcuk | RST38h, hdmi video out is quite an impressive feature | 15:55 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I have no hdmi in, so can't test | 15:56 |
| lcuk | RST38h, direct neural input is rumoured on the next generation | 15:57 |
| alterego | Heh | 15:57 |
| lardman | is using timers expensive from a pm point of view? | 15:58 |
| lardman | I'm guessing this page means sleeping or using a timer within a polling loop | 15:58 |
| lardman | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Best_practices_for_application_development/Optimising_power_management | 15:58 |
| * lardman heads to a meeting | 15:59 | |
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| RST38h | lcuk: won't be the next generation | 16:01 |
| RST38h | lcuk: and the wp8 will connect directly to your buttocks, I am sure | 16:02 |
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| lcuk | lol | 16:02 |
| RST38h | lardman: timers=expensive | 16:02 |
| lcuk | RST38h, ms times perhaps | 16:02 |
| RST38h | lardman: So, do not tick every second, tick every minute and screw users who complain that "the clock is 30 seconds off on the average" | 16:03 |
| lcuk | but wakeup once every few seconds timers not so bad | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hi | 16:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: FBreader did that, drained the battery fast | 16:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, did what? | 16:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Now ticks every 30 or 60 seconds, drain gone | 16:03 |
| achipa | connected directly to buttocks | 16:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: ticked every second | 16:03 |
| lcuk | different issue surely? | 16:03 |
| lcuk | depends what it did every second | 16:03 |
| javispedro | hi | 16:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: oh, no it was a timers issue | 16:04 |
| RST38h | lcukL simply counted time | 16:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: XChat had similar issues but much much worse | 16:04 |
| lcuk | where is the code commit you mean? | 16:05 |
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| RST38h | ? | 16:05 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i am wondering just what happened in the timer | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | one wake per second isn't hard, as long as the executed code alows immediate return to idle | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | a process that wakes up every second to do a ping is another class of rape | 16:07 |
| javispedro | timers is today's topic? | 16:07 |
| RST38h | That was roughly what XChat was doing | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | just surfaced lately | 16:08 |
| RST38h | FBReader was way less agressive, but still managed to drain the battery | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: exactly, that'S why I chosen this example | 16:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro: lardman asked if timers were bad for power | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | simple answer: no, but the code they start may be | 16:09 |
| javispedro | it depends on wheter the screen is on or off I'd say =) | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | unrelated | 16:09 |
| RST38h | even with the screen off, lots of timers is still a bad idea | 16:09 |
| javispedro | I mean it because screen on = probably timers are not going to cause a noticeable battery life drop | 16:09 |
| flux | I guess he means if the screen is on, a few timers here and there don't matter | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's e.g. bme that does like 20 timer wakes per second iirc | 16:09 |
| javispedro | off = probably yes. | 16:09 |
| RST38h | javispedro: first HP tablets have hit the stores, I heard | 16:09 |
| flux | in any case, your clock doesn't need to be off by 30 seconds, you can calculate a proper sleep so that you'll land at the first second of the next minute | 16:10 |
| RST38h | true | 16:10 |
| javispedro | RST38h: yes, also, webos-internals guys got a few. | 16:10 |
| javispedro | less than the 250 n9devkits from Nokia =) | 16:11 |
| RST38h | "Fukushima radiation fears: children near nuclear plant to be given monitors" <== they still got children near that plant??? | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: duh, isn't that how clocks are implemented always? | 16:11 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, it was related to the comment about the users complaining about the offset ;) | 16:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: well, none of those 250 got sent out yet, I guess, so the webos guys still got more =) | 16:11 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: also, hp is offering ~250$ Pre2 for devs | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: a clock that's off by a max of 59s is clearly a flawed design | 16:12 |
| javispedro | N9-like hardware except screen and camera | 16:12 |
| javispedro | RST38h: quite tempting. | 16:12 |
| achipa | javispedro: that's just the meego.com cache, there is more | 16:12 |
| achipa | (FN, etc) | 16:12 |
| RST38h | javispedro: how is the sdk though? | 16:12 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, but it will still be wrong, if the user adjusts the clock! | 16:13 |
| RST38h | achipa: no clear way to get one via FN at the moment. In fact, FN website got seriously screwed and now looks like some deserted version of MSDN =( | 16:13 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I'm heavily biased towards their HTML5 stuff vs Qml,Xaml (mostly because I've use XUL) | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: you always do a calculation so your timer fires on next hh:mm:00 | 16:13 |
| javispedro | RST38h: apart from the webby stuff, there's only SDL still. | 16:13 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Don't tell you *prefer* HTML! | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | you do that calculation each time you wind up timer | 16:14 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, typically applications don't know about system clock changing | 16:14 |
| achipa | javispedro: and *memory*. and magnetomter. and NFC if you care. and battery. | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | they'll learn about it on next calculation | 16:14 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, but that's too late. misinformatino was provided for possibly 59 seconds! | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if you advance sysclock by 30s, your clock app will expire timer on next hh:mm:00 old time, then shedule a new timer for now+30s | 16:15 |
| javispedro | achipa: ok, ok. | 16:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: indeed :-P | 16:16 |
| flux | as it annoys me to say it, N9 looks like a much more usable device than the devkit. I guess it's time to learn to use the touch keyboard. | 16:16 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I am yet to really try any of them. But HTML I mostly know. | 16:16 |
| flux | well, usable perhaps is not the right word to use, keyboard is much more usable :-) | 16:16 |
| flux | there is always hope that someone builds an extra battery+keyboard-cradle for n9 :) | 16:16 |
| achipa | RST38h: well, the way is pretty clear, write an endearing letter, etc | 16:16 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: Psychologists in the US report that people who have suffered a serious blow to the head and who have "a sense of connection to a higher power" tend to report feelings of much greater life satisfaction | 16:17 |
| javispedro | Hey, I'm going to write a _menacing_ letter if I don't get any word about my launchpad application soon. | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: memory??? | 16:17 |
| RST38h | achipa: Letter to WHOM? | 16:17 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: pre2 has 512MiB, n9 has 1 GiB | 16:17 |
| RST38h | achipa: As I said, poor FN wasn't very systematic inthe best of times, and it is seriously screwed now. | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah sorry, missed the comparison base | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought it's about n950 vs n9 | 16:18 |
| achipa | RST38h: did you guys read https://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ ? you have aparagraph, address, deadline, etc | 16:18 |
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| RST38h | achipa; Ah, I see now! Thanks! | 16:19 |
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| RST38h | achipa: Will wait and see what the community program request ends up with though. Do not need two devices. | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: duh? deadline in 3 days? | 16:21 |
| javispedro | nono | 16:21 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: read again | 16:21 |
| javispedro | one month | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | just did :-P | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 16:22 |
| achipa | javispedro: launchpad. applications. take. time. sorry. about. that. | 16:22 |
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| javispedro | achipa: it's been half a year! | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | community deadline is tomorrow | 16:23 |
| javispedro | and DocScrutinizer's was approved in an overnight =) | 16:23 |
| achipa | flux: more usable ? in what terms ? they are equally usable, depending on your addiction to qwerty and such | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway I'm clearly repelled by devel.nokia.com and the friggin launchpad with its registration process and just showing "devices available to you <nul>" when you're not a company lauchpad member | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: yes, but it's useless | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | as mine is an individual account, not a corporate account | 16:24 |
| achipa | javispedro: yeah, I know. I wish I could poke people, but it really is a manual/broken process | 16:24 |
| flux | achipa, I was under the impression N9 had more memory? | 16:24 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: this is completely unrelated. The devkit has nothing to do with the DDP this time around | 16:24 |
| achipa | flux: than the PALM PRE | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you need to bitch at forum about it so sb hits your face with the exact wording of one sentence somewhere | 16:25 |
| flux | achipa, in other words N9devkit has 1GB as well? | 16:25 |
| achipa | flux: the only major difference is qwerty, NFC and the colors | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: another good way to annoy visitors and make them jump hoops for days to find it's been useless | 16:25 |
| achipa | the rest are nuances... '10% more sensitive magnetometer' and such sillyness | 16:26 |
| flux | achipa, in that case I shall amend my statement: the devkit would be nicer :) | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | nuance OLED | 16:26 |
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| flux | actually there was the battery thing as well? | 16:26 |
| achipa | yes, color nuances :) | 16:26 |
| achipa | and 100mAh nuance | 16:26 |
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| achipa | okay, I'll give you that, if you're hardcore, you could say the devkit battery is replaceable | 16:27 |
| javispedro | and the n9's is not by the same hardcore definition? =) | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | OT: when your browser freezes on selecting "print" from menu, how'd you go recover the data you entered into that friggin webform? | 16:28 |
| achipa | javispedro: No. I can actually replace batteries with fingers only in about 15 sec. For the N9 I need tools and abour 3 min | 16:28 |
| frals | achipa: you need a screwdriver for n950 as well ;) | 16:29 |
| achipa | frals: I consider losing the screws as part of the unboxing :) | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't there a file somewhare that caches form data or sth like that? | 16:29 |
| frals | unless you have some mutant fingers that can unscrew the screws | 16:29 |
| frals | achipa: haha, ok | 16:29 |
| javispedro | achipa: hah | 16:30 |
| frals | not that ive ever got to see a box for it, thou :p | 16:30 |
| achipa | pretty much like the N900s | 16:30 |
| achipa | bit shorter on accessories, tho | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: so it's been you who told that "swapping battery by night" story | 16:30 |
| achipa | but who cares about thos | 16:30 |
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| achipa | DocScrutinizer: huh ? Yes, I can swap batteries with closed eyes, just like true marines can assemble their guns... :) | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, it's been you :-) | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly this wording :-D | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | we've been wondering if you were talking bout n950 or n9 | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as N9 seems to be a real nuissance to take apart | 16:32 |
| achipa | N950. N9 is a whole different beast. | 16:33 |
| achipa | Yeah, you really don't want to disassemble those | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thought as much | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | so N9's battery is actually not user replacable by any metrics | 16:34 |
| achipa | correct | 16:34 |
| achipa | I would say it's not even service-point replaceable unless they know what they are doing | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 16:35 |
| achipa | I.e. you do have to have a manual to know where to prod/poke, it's not really 'oooh, here's a screw, lets see if it opens up I loosen it' :) | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | we had a nice internal argument and shouting and names calling about a similar design, back at OM | 16:35 |
| lcuk | achipa, if the service point do not know how to service the phones there is somethign wrong | 16:36 |
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| javispedro | they just trashem and replace them with n8s | 16:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ended with "cell replaceable with standart tooling, incl some soldering *maybe*" | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | standard* OMG | 16:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: reflash, check, pack, send to nokia service center | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | some fail even at the reflash part | 16:38 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, was responding to achipa who said service point folks wont know | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | me too | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | nokia service point doesn't really mean much at least here | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | YMMV depending on country | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's one service center in Germany, and they for sure know how to do such things | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | service points usually can help you unboxing and that's been it | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | the better half of service point employees maybe come *here* to ask for advice | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually, though my issue was a "simple" flex cable swap, and though the service point had a veritable lab with ESD and all, they sent the device in to nokia service center, as Nokia wouldn't *let them* repair it | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and when device came back with a damaged power button, they told me they *could* fix that but I'd had to pay, as Nokia broke it so they need to send it in _again_ to get it fixed for free. Nokia wouldn't pay them to fix it locally | 16:45 |
| bindi | do you think running ideal settings on the n900 (overclock 250-850) is a good idea? | 16:46 |
| bindi | will it die? D: | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 16:46 |
| infobot | hmm... omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~overclocking | 16:47 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 16:47 |
| bindi | but but lower voltage! | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 16:47 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 16:47 |
| bindi | reading | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | lower voltage is complete placebo | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, mostly | 16:48 |
| bindi | well i'll go with 250-600 ULV then | 16:48 |
| MohammadAG | why not use stock anyways? | 16:48 |
| bindi | saves some battery :> | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | how much? :-P | 16:49 |
| bindi | i dont know | 16:49 |
| bindi | but i'm p sure it does | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I tell you it doesn't | 16:49 |
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| bindi | dont see a reason why not to run with less volts | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't see a reason why not run it under the shower | 16:50 |
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| bindi | so you're telling me that 0.912V @ 250 MHz will not consume less power than 1.075V | 16:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | let me tell you a seemingly unrelated story: there are step up converters to power your 220V stuff from 12V car battery. The design of those makes them rather immune to input voltage variations, as they transform anyway so you'd thing 10V, 12V, 14V what's the difference. But some of thuse may burn out on too *low* input voltage as they need to draw more _current_ on lower input _voltage_, to get same amount of energy for the output | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | think* | 16:56 |
| RST38h | Doc: lovely | 16:57 |
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| MohammadAG | frals, what was in that tweet of yours? :P | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG | or is, Sorry, this item is not available for your country. | 17:00 |
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| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: so it means that they start ok on 12V and as the battery gets depleted and/or you attempt to start the engine, they catch fire? Niiiiice :-D | 17:05 |
| bindi | DocScrutinizer: you're saying lowering voltages increases ampere..? | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually usually it's just the fuse that blows | 17:05 |
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| frals | Elop is a mischievous boy. He is on a platform and want let it burn! Please help (not him!) and shoot the water on the fire. You will only win, if you can drop Elpo from the platform. Are you a hero? | 17:06 |
| frals | MohammadAG: ^ | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | bindi: no, I'm saying things are way more complex with real electronics than what you learned at school with "battery-switch-lamp->now this is electricity, pupils" | 17:06 |
| bindi | I still think lowering the voltage will increase battery life | 17:07 |
| bindi | not greatly, but an increase is an increase | 17:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably it will, unless e.g your gfx core reboots constantly due to "segfaults" | 17:07 |
| RST38h | frals: AND ALL OUR BASE ARE BELONG TO HIM | 17:07 |
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| RST38h | bindi: You can think whatever you wouldlike to think | 17:08 |
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| RST38h | bindi: Does not necessarily make things true though | 17:08 |
| lcuk | frals, did you write this? | 17:09 |
| frals | lcuk: no, valerio linked it to me ;) | 17:10 |
| lcuk | lol | 17:10 |
| lcuk | is it available for Windows Phone? | 17:10 |
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| MohammadAG | frals, LOL | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | bindi: unless *proper* numbers from *proper* long term testbeds, I'm tending to trust into Nokia's/TI's capabilities to find out about optimum voltage settings, based on weeks of test runs on arrays of several hundred devices | 17:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in the end it's them who know their hw best, not mr joe randomhacker out there who thought "duh, there's a sysfs node to tamper with core voltages, now let's see what I can get away with" | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they know info you never get a hold on | 17:14 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: what gets me is, how people don't expect Nokia to want to make it go as fast as they possibly can. | 17:14 |
| alterego | Mobile devices are so highly tuned already .. | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: indeed | 17:14 |
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| alterego | The fact that OCing doesn't even work the same on everyones devices, some can't get about 800Mhz some can get up to 1.4Ghz | 17:14 |
| alterego | Shows how random the outcomes can be, and why things are done the way they are .. | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't tell me, I'm EE and I know my shit | 17:15 |
| alterego | TI, ARM, Nokia, they're not Intel, they don't churn out the same chips and lock the frequencies to cater for different budgets :D | 17:15 |
| lcuk | i hope you know more about circuits DocScrutinizer | 17:16 |
| alterego | They want things to be the fastest and most reliable the can :D | 17:16 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, don't get cocky now :P | 17:16 |
| alterego | EE is that a CISCO certification? | 17:16 |
| * alterego chuckles | 17:16 | |
| alterego | Talking of EEs, where is abill_uk? I thought he only had a 7 day ban | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 17:17 |
| alterego | I was sure he'd have something to say about the N9 or N950 .. | 17:17 |
| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: otoh the difference in achieved OC might mean that your specific device might really support higher freq, *if you are lucky* | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | also may mean your device is one of the lucky 7% that burn out even on 500MHz after 5000h | 17:18 |
| alterego | edheldil: it's like getting a group of people to jump out of an aeroplane and you're the only one with a working parachute. | 17:18 |
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| jaska | 7% burn out at normal clock after 5000h? ow | 17:19 |
| edheldil | hehe. I do not OC :) | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | jaska: TI specs | 17:19 |
| jaska | so effectively theyre selling garbage binned ones | 17:19 |
| flux | I think it is quite rare to run your N900 for 5000h at 500MHz? | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, that's normal expected lifetime for the CPU | 17:20 |
| flux | how many recharges would that even take.. | 17:20 |
| crashanddie | yes, considering the CPU doesn't run at 500Mhz constantly | 17:20 |
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| jaska | what clock do you have to run them at to get the normal works-until-cosmic-event lifetime? | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: unless yu're such OC fanboy that tries to cure the slowdown caused by running mp3enc | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | 0 | 17:21 |
| flux | I think a reasonable person would overclock for the hopes of the device running at the boosted MHz only for split-seconds at a time. | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | jaska: all under 500 is speced to 100.000h | 17:22 |
| achipa | jaska: no such thing, even minimum clock has a non-zero defect rate (except it's in the 0.0000x% range) | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 17:22 |
| jaska | just sounds like an awfully high failure rate to me | 17:23 |
| crashanddie | hardly | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 17:23 |
| infobot | well, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 17:23 |
| jaska | im not an overclocker. | 17:24 |
| flux | 5000 hours is like running the device full blast 24/7 for 208 days. nobody who uses the device as a personal communication device does that. | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | 100K total PowerOnHours when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 (overdrive = 600MHz) to less than 23K POH. --- for commercial grade device (up to 95°C) | 17:24 |
| flux | well, unless they carry a car battery with them. | 17:25 |
| user0- | will the n900 run meego or maemo? | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: that's why 600MHz is safe | 17:25 |
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| user0- | the wiki says it will run maemo | 17:26 |
| crashanddie | actually, that would be 8 hours of 500Mhz use every day for a year, 8 months and 12 days... | 17:26 |
| user0- | random sites only say meego | 17:26 |
| crashanddie | user0-, maemo | 17:26 |
| flux | crashanddie, and how many recharges a day? | 17:26 |
| user0- | :0 | 17:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a maemo called meego | 17:26 |
| crashanddie | flux, a lot. | 17:26 |
| user0- | i just paid for my n900 a few days ago | 17:27 |
| crashanddie | how much did you pay for it? | 17:27 |
| flux | actually, does someone have the number? how long will n900 last with its default configuration at 100% cpu? | 17:27 |
| user0- | 320$ | 17:27 |
| flux | isn't there a meego for N900 as well? | 17:27 |
| crashanddie | ouch | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: see above, 100.000h | 17:27 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, I meant how far the battery lasts | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2h | 17:28 |
| flux | I don't think there is any meego available that is actually usable for an end user yet.. | 17:28 |
| user0- | cashanddie : too much? | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | 4h with screen off | 17:28 |
| flux | but I hear they just released a summer release of MeeGo for N900 (for developers) | 17:29 |
| user0- | and will the new device run the old apps or will they have to port them first | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption | 17:30 |
| lardman | re | 17:31 |
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| lardman | seems I missed the response to the timer question :) | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: >>md5sum /dev/zero 250 mA T | 17:31 |
| lardman | it was a rhetorical question though | 17:31 |
| lardman | do we know the system heartbeat frequency? | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: [2011-06-28 15:09:00] <DocScrutinizer> simple answer: no, but the code they start may be | 17:32 |
| cloudyLights | DocScrutinizer: I am seeking to run a script like jowel did | 17:32 |
| lardman | docscrutinizer: That was my conclusion too | 17:32 |
| cloudyLights | to log my bus travel using the celular info | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | jowel? | 17:32 |
| lardman | cloudyLights: we could do with an extension to liblocation to allow offline conversion of cell id to lat/lon if you're game? | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil I guess you meant | 17:33 |
| cloudyLights | this what Iam seeking | 17:33 |
| cloudyLights | but I am at work | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | cloudyLights: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/smscb.py | 17:34 |
| cloudyLights | in 1hr I will try to understand more | 17:34 |
| cloudyLights | great | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | cloudyLights: this one?? | 17:34 |
| cloudyLights | I just want to run a log on my way back home | 17:34 |
| cloudyLights | then sit and figure out how to use the numbers | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | look into netmon source, how to get the CID | 17:35 |
| cloudyLights | I need to log the data | 17:35 |
| cloudyLights | I am not saying I CANT do it | 17:35 |
| cloudyLights | but maybe it allready exist | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | visit openbmap, they might have scripts to do exactly what you want, for N900 | 17:35 |
| cloudyLights | a program to log 15 min drive in a bus | 17:36 |
| lardman | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but it would be nice to add it to liblocation as another location option | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen onen_openbmap | 17:36 |
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| cloudyLights | lardman: I hear you mate | 17:36 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'onen_openbmap', DocScrutinizer | 17:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~seen onen_bmap | 17:37 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'onen_bmap', DocScrutinizer | 17:37 |
| jonwil | liblocation is closed source | 17:37 |
| lardman | jonwil: I hear you're an expert with binary patching though ;) | 17:37 |
| jonwil | not really | 17:37 |
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| lardman | don't worry, I know it's closed source | 17:37 |
| lardman | I suppose an nice transparent alternative would be a proxy server that intercepts the lookup requests and uses the openbmap data to return the known lat/lon without needing a net connection | 17:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://openbmap.org/ | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://openbmap.org/api/getGPSfromGSM.html I argued with onen a lot about the assumed polygon or even radius. Rela life it's all but a circle or even simple area defined by a toplologic order 1 ploygon | 17:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | real life it's usually a random checkered area where you can get signal from a BTS | 17:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | more often than not the servicing cell (aka the tower with best signal) is *not* the one with shortest distance to your location | 17:47 |
| cloudyLights | hmmm | 17:48 |
| cloudyLights | I am just glad you are here to advice me about this idea | 17:49 |
| cloudyLights | I mean if I had to learn it all by myself , it would take a lot of time | 17:49 |
| cloudyLights | but the idea of using cellular is good | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | real world out there isn't an ideal landscape with no obstacles and an evenly spaced pattern of BTS | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | in towns you frequently have so called umbrella cells that are mounted on really high locatons and serve for a fill in in a radius of several km. So you might have such an umbrella as your servicing cell despite the fact 30 BTS are way closer to you but hidden by obstacles | 17:51 |
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| edheldil | but would you be able to triangulat depending on signal strength from several towers without the need for some operator signal propagation maps? | 17:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | achipa: how did you know how to open teh n9 - did you see a manual? | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | edheldil: nope, as signal is a random value | 17:52 |
| achipa | SpeedEvil: either that or I have dropped one by accident and have seen it fly apart :) | 17:52 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: We all know how to do that. You are the only one not having one :) | 17:53 |
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| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: really? No use in reading sigmnal strength? | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | edheldil: see my mail http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | you see real life variations in signal strength by moving device 50cm or 1m | 17:54 |
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| jonwil | About to post a post to the mailing list describing the interfaces exposed by hald-addon-bme | 17:54 |
| jonwil | so someone can use it to create hald-addon-bme clone that talks to low level stuff | 17:54 |
| * ShadowJK sees 50kbytes/s go to 200kbytes/s by moving device 1cm | 17:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: Actually - there are speed grades of the processor in the n900 up to 720MHz - they might well do binning. | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly | 17:55 |
| * ShadowJK has marked the "proper" place for 200kbyte/s with masking tape on his table | 17:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | RF signal is all but a mere function of distance | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | edheldil: 'no use' - is overstating it. | 17:56 |
| ShadowJK | then there's a relatively large .5m diameter sphere in midair that gives 500, but only if I am holding it there. Putting it on a tripod in same spot doesn't work | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, my mail has all the bits in rather compressed concentrated form | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | edheldil: But it's at best a ceiling, and you would need to use it along with lots of clever code that tried to guess things about the cell-tower antenna | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, that neglects reflections. | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | and obstacles at large | 17:57 |
| achipa | ShadowJK: the layout of the room, items in and around it might create a 'natural' focal point | 17:57 |
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| ShadowJK | gps receiver seems good at detecting ceilings, if you do a 24 hour run | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | As a simple example - if there is a flat plate behind the phone away from the transmitter, pointed at it, then there will be 2*maximum/zero signal in 5cm spacings. | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically the ONLY thing you can say for sure from CID is: you are <35km distance from that particular BTS, and signal strength doesn't matter really | 17:59 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Aren't cells smaller in the city? | 18:00 |
| RST38h | Doc: And for 3G? | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: there's no such thing like a cell outer limit | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | except for the 35km max distance to BTS | 18:00 |
| ShadowJK | for gsm the timing advance could give you a rough distance (not counting reflections) | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even that can get pushed by technical means, for umbrella cells e.g in aussie outback | 18:01 |
| * ShadowJK has heard some cells refuse to talk to mobiles too far away even if signals were fine | 18:01 | |
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| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: your mail message seem to say that getting reasonable location accuracy is possible. Or have I misread it? | 18:03 |
| lardman | I was planning on using the cell id to know when I'm near some location, and only then turn the gps on | 18:04 |
| ShadowJK | are you refering to the one where he decodes coordinates sent by the network over cell broadcast? | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yep, that's the mountain-summit effect that makes your phone drop connection to a seemingly perfect cell - it's >35km away | 18:04 |
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| lardman | Does anyone have any links to docs on the CPU and network "heartbeats" on the N9(50)? | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | edheldil: it is possible, but not on the assumption of any relation between signal strength and distance to BTS | 18:05 |
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| edheldil | ah, ok | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can get a map of fingerprints for each square meter | 18:06 |
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| edheldil | also another liblocation extension would be to do the wifi google trick, then | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | you also can do heuristics on which BTS are visible at all | 18:07 |
| MoonTiger | has anybody else had the screen brightness status applet just disappear from the status area? | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you can exploit TA | 18:07 |
| jonwil | bah, cant find bme-dbus-names.h | 18:07 |
| jonwil | definatly exists, mce source code references it | 18:07 |
| lardman | edheldil: yes | 18:07 |
| edheldil | MoonTiger: might be a stupid question, but is not it just scrolled away? The status menu is scrollable, as I have found :) | 18:08 |
| achipa | lardman: another trick is timed gps reads - if you know a position, you know that you cannot get into a target area under X minutes, so no point in making another read before that | 18:08 |
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| MoonTiger | edheldil, no i just tried and there is no scrolling | 18:08 |
| MoonTiger | i only have 3 rows of items showing plus the volume / battery meter | 18:09 |
| achipa | lardman: and if you have additional info (like knowing that you're on foot, bicycle or bus), you can optimize even further | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG is going to play with a N950? | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in 2 minutes ;-) | 18:10 |
| MohammadAG | 1 minute till RDA session starts :P | 18:10 |
| ruskie | anyone got any opinions on the tablets+keyboard dock devices that can be got now-a-days?(acer, asus, anyone else?) | 18:11 |
| MohammadAG | session ends in 2:49 hours | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | edheldil: Some cell modems can report distances to several towers in range - that lets you do postion | 18:12 |
| MohammadAG | session started :D | 18:13 |
| lardman | achipa: yes, good calls | 18:13 |
| MohammadAG | nice, portrait, gotta tilt my head | 18:13 |
| MoonTiger | ruskie, i have a asus TF with keyboard | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: really? | 18:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: distance? how do they do that? forced assoc and TA? | 18:13 |
| MoonTiger | so no clues as to what would make the brightness applet vanish after the CSSU update? | 18:14 |
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| ruskie | MoonTiger, good? | 18:15 |
| jonwil | aha, now I see why someone would bother to clone the battery status widget, the open-source clone is improved/better | 18:15 |
| jonwil | Time to post to the mailing list with information for hald-addon-bme | 18:16 |
| MoonTiger | ruskie, it takes a lil while to get used to having a tablet but it works really well ... the keyboard is useful for more than the keyboard - it doubles the battery life ... i would recommend the asus | 18:16 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG got a N950 | 18:16 |
| hiemanshu | ? | 18:16 |
| Venemo | nope | 18:17 |
| Venemo | he is using RDA | 18:17 |
| user0- | whats rda? | 18:17 |
| Venemo | remote device access | 18:17 |
| MohammadAG | think VNC, but slower | 18:17 |
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| MohammadAG | ok, you'll love this everyone | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG | it | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG | has | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG | BUSYBOX! | 18:19 |
| user0- | :D | 18:19 |
| wmarone_ | \o/ | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, what else :-S | 18:20 |
| user0- | seems more like bad news | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | no root access? | 18:20 |
| user0- | some new release of maemo or what? | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | no root? HAHA | 18:21 |
| MohammadAG | can't find a way to gain root | 18:21 |
| MohammadAG | su root needs suid | 18:21 |
| MohammadAG | dmesg => operation not permitted THE FUCK | 18:21 |
| K-Wallander | lol no root? :D | 18:22 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: it needs to be in developer mode to get root | 18:22 |
| lardman | so now we need to look at the package list and see if there are any security bugs that could be exploited to get a root shell | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sudo -l | 18:22 |
| * MoonTiger sighs and kisses the N950 bye bye | 18:22 | |
| * MohammadAG tilts head again | 18:23 | |
| MohammadAG | couldn't they have done what they did to the SDK | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: check if device is in developer mode | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | I hate portrait only on a landscape only laptop | 18:23 |
| MoonTiger | ok wow ... just uninstalled the latest twimgo and my brightness applet came back | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | waiting for it to respond | 18:23 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, developer mode is enabled | 18:24 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: apt-get install openssh-server | 18:24 |
| alterego | and ssh to localhost | 18:24 |
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| MohammadAG | oh great idea | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG | ssh is installed | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: uhuh, is apt-get in sudoers? | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sudo -l | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG | time to guess the root pass | 18:26 |
| MohammadAG | it's not meego | 18:26 |
| MohammadAG | nor root | 18:26 |
| alterego | Oh, install it from the application manager then | 18:26 |
| MohammadAG | sudo not installed DocScrutinizer | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | rootme was the default on Maemo | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh | 18:26 |
| MohammadAG | rootme it is | 18:26 |
| MohammadAG | thanks Jaffa | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | My 770 days coming back to haunt me | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | cheers on Jaffa | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | klogctl: Operation not permitted | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | on dmesg | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | less /var/log/* | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | theehe, syslog | 18:28 |
| frals | aegis-su or something like that | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: \o/ | 18:29 |
| MohammadAG | lots of aegis- stuff, no -su though | 18:29 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, 'lspci' | 18:29 |
| frals | aegis-exec maybe | 18:29 |
| * MohammadAG fetches pastebinit | 18:30 | |
| MohammadAG | actually | 18:30 |
| frals | wonder what kind of device that is | 18:30 |
| jonwil | so yeah once I post this info, someone who knows how to use hal and dbus APIs will be able to write a replacement hald-addon-bme that talks directly to the hardware | 18:30 |
| frals | when your time is almost up do rm /usr/sbin/validator-init and reboot | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Can you do a df -h to check the size of the MMC? | 18:30 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, or 'lshal' | 18:30 |
| MohammadAG | no no no | 18:30 |
| MohammadAG | before all that | 18:30 |
| jonwil | whilst still remaining compatible with the closed source bits | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | I want the public IP | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | hopefully it has port 22 open | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | actually, what's reverse ssh again? | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | <frals> when your time is almost up do rm /usr/sbin/validator-init and reboot <-- lol? | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | frals, N950 | 18:31 |
| frals | MohammadAG: depending on some stuff im not sure if it will come back up after that :P | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | before all that, tar -cf - / | ssh me@computer "cat > rdarootfs.tar" | 18:32 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: ssh -R2222:localhost:22 external | 18:32 |
| Venemo | and before your session ends, 'rm -rf /' as root | 18:32 |
| lardman | MohammadAG: devel-su perhaps? | 18:32 |
| Venemo | :P | 18:32 |
| hiemanshu | Venemo: naah, cat a > /boot/vmlinuz works better :P the rootfs is there but it wont boot :P | 18:33 |
| Venemo | lol hiemanshu | 18:33 |
| Venemo | thing is, if MohammadAG does these nasty things, they will probably disable all root access... | 18:33 |
| frals | Venemo: a developer device without developer mode is... | 18:34 |
| frals | well... | 18:34 |
| frals | doesnt the symbian phones reflash the phone between rda sessions btw? | 18:34 |
| lardman | I can't see them getting rid of it really, they've written the docs already after all ;) | 18:34 |
| frals | MohammadAG: whats the hostname btw? | 18:34 |
| frals | MohammadAG: also, settings -> about -> version number | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: that's what I thought | 18:35 |
| Venemo | I meant, they disable root access on RDA | 18:35 |
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| MohammadAG | Jaffa, then? | 18:35 |
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| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Then you can ssh -P 2222 external to get through to the remote box | 18:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Sorry - I may have misunderstood - I understood that report way back of yours gave TA to multiple cells. | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | if there's no NAT | 18:36 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Actually, by default you'll have to "ssh -P 2222 localhost" unless you've reconfigured SSH to listen on remote ports beyond the loopback address | 18:36 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: No, this is SSHing back over an SSH tunnel | 18:36 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: As long as you can get out, you can get back in | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: it does. I managed to get the TA for NCEL by forcing the phone to register with all those BTS | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Ah. I see, thanks. | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: AAAH | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: TA is a parameter the BTS tells to MT | 18:38 |
| Kaadlajk | MohammadAG: try "/usr/bin/aegis-exec -a CAP::sys_admin /usr/bin/dmesg" | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you need to actually talk to BTS to get TA | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: yes, I know. I was assuming things. | 18:38 |
| lardman | Kaadlajk: I thought devel-su was supposed to support the Harmattan security model? | 18:38 |
| frals | lardman: whats devel-su? O_o | 18:38 |
| Kaadlajk | never heard of it either | 18:39 |
| lardman | a tool listed here: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Activating_developer_mode | 18:39 |
| lardman | but perhaps that's just the package name, who knows | 18:39 |
| Kaadlajk | "devel-su root" should work apparently | 18:40 |
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| frals | uh, dont have that package installed here | 18:41 |
| Kaadlajk | should come with developer mode | 18:41 |
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| frals | didnt for me | 18:41 |
| MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/MeeGo/syslog | 18:41 |
| frals | guess ill ping someone about it tomorrow if i remember ;o | 18:41 |
| Kaadlajk | maybe this doc is out-of-date | 18:41 |
| frals | MohammadAG: 403 and then 404 | 18:42 |
| frals | ;p | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe, so can we assume "N950 out in the wild" state now - though even virtual | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | so e.g achipa may post pastebins of his device's dmesg etc? | 18:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Quoth the server '404'. | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: fix file permissions! | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | You don't have permission to access /public/MeeGo/syslog.txt on this server | 18:44 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | http://paste.ubuntu.com/634371/ | 18:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha | 18:44 |
| alterego | 2.6.32 .. | 18:44 |
| alterego | Nice .. | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, now we'Re talking | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'll keep it for later... afk for a while | 18:45 |
| lardman | SmartReflex working now apparently | 18:45 |
| frals | hmm | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | you mean they enabled it? | 18:45 |
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| lardman | hmm, perhaps not then, just the driver is present | 18:46 |
| alterego | N950 only has 512M RAM? | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's always been thare until recently, on n900 | 18:46 |
| frals | i wouldnt make too many assumptions about the dev devices going out from that dmesg | 18:46 |
| alterego | Yeah ... | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: indeed | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I make assumptions about the OS and kernel running there, based on uname -a etc | 18:47 |
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| lardman | hmm, root on an SD card | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, bbl | 18:47 |
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| lardman | BCM4751 GPS driver, /me looks for spec sheet | 18:48 |
| hiemanshu | mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 F0KC0M 60.0 GiB | 18:49 |
| Jaffa | hiemanshu: Was about to paste that myself. | 18:50 |
| alterego | Wow, swap on nand | 18:50 |
| lardman | pretty recent image on the cellular bit: SW=DFL61_HARMATTAN_1.2011.22-6_PR_RM680 | 18:50 |
| pabs3 | huh, 0.2% bad erase blocks | 18:50 |
| lardman | lol bme: [bmetimer_calc_cc_diff()] Insane coulomb counter difference: 419362815 | 18:52 |
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| hiemanshu | Jaffa: hah, I beat you to it :P | 18:52 |
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| hiemanshu | ALSA device list: #0: dfl61-twl4030 (twl4030) #1: dfl61-dac33 (tlv320dac33) | 18:53 |
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| javispedro | I've read something about RDA being available already? | 18:54 |
| hiemanshu | input: ST LIS3LV02DL Accelerometer as /devices/platform/lis3lv02d/input/input7 | 18:54 |
| pabs3 | javispedro: yep, MohammadAG posted the syslog from it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/634371/ | 18:54 |
| hiemanshu | input: ST LIS3LV02DL Accelerometer as /devices/platform/lis3lv02d/input/input7 | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N950_Hardware | 18:55 |
| hiemanshu | ugh | 18:55 |
| lardman | docscrutinizer: ah thanks | 18:55 |
| javispedro | kernel: [62453.751739] Aegis: pastebin.py verification failed (no reference hash) | 18:56 |
| javispedro | device is in closed mode | 18:56 |
| javispedro | aegis fully armed and operational :S | 18:56 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: MohammadAG has an RDA session right now | 18:56 |
| javispedro | so what can you do in developer mode? | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: toldya | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 18:58 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, but he was able to run it after all, so what happened? | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel: [ 0.088806] musb_hdrc: version 6.0, musb-dma, peripheral, | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | but probably little use in messing with that either then | 18:59 |
| lardman | hmm interesting, that gps chipset supports LTO | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | LTO? | 19:00 |
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| lardman | Long Term Orbit | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: no clue | 19:00 |
| Jaffa | Low Target Orbit? | 19:00 |
| Jaffa | Oh, wow - it is orbit. | 19:00 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Guessing satellite positions into the future? | 19:00 |
| lardman | high precision ephemeris predictions | 19:00 |
| lardman | yep | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, thought all chips did that. then otoh I got no clue about GPS, really | 19:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: Oh - and you asked earlier about camera openness - it's implied you can screw with it. See http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/ | 19:01 |
| lardman | http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/tb/LTO-TB100-R.pdf | 19:01 |
| lardman | thanks SpeedEvil | 19:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer heads out again | 19:01 | |
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| lardman | time to head for my internetless home, catch you guys tomorrow | 19:03 |
| lardman | MohammadAG: have fun! :) | 19:03 |
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| * javispedro is interested in dfl61 | 19:09 | |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG, can you also pastebin /etc/pulse/daemon.conf , /etc/pulse/default.pa =) | 19:10 |
| javispedro | or I will get those from rootfs, forget. | 19:10 |
| alterego | Heh, Harmattan still has libConIc | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | damn internet connection | 19:11 |
| javispedro | alterego, it still has icd2 | 19:12 |
| alterego | I want that IMEI: 004402131922233 | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, need anything not in rootfs? | 19:13 |
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| javispedro | alsa controls, but I do not have any binary to dump them arund | 19:13 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: you could tar up the whole rootfs so we can get Nokia closed binaries | 19:13 |
| alterego | Oh wait, we already have those. | 19:13 |
| alterego | It's really just system information that's useful from a device right now I guess. | 19:14 |
| javispedro | "amixer contents" would list controls | 19:14 |
| javispedro | not sure if amixer is around | 19:14 |
| * alterego wonders if you can do a tree /sys | 19:15 | |
| alterego | Without it doing a recursive loop | 19:15 |
| javispedro | alterego, find does detect loops | 19:15 |
| alterego | Neat | 19:15 |
| javispedro | alterego, even busybox's iirc. | 19:15 |
| frals | javispedro: amixer is there | 19:15 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: find /sys > sysfs.tree | 19:15 |
| alterego | :) | 19:15 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, also a trivial one: ps ax | 19:16 |
| frals | javispedro: otoh im using preproduction sw etc so no guarantees | 19:16 |
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| MohammadAG | why the fuck does pastebinit not work | 19:16 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, and qdbus =) | 19:16 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, how did you paste syslog ? | 19:16 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=zTq0gSTY | 19:19 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, scp and pastebinit from PC :P | 19:20 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: psst, find /sys > sysfs.tree | 19:20 |
| alterego | please | 19:20 |
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| MohammadAG | I wonder if this reduces my chances of getting an N950 | 19:21 |
| * javispedro lols at cat /sys/kernel/debug/pvr//hwrec_event | 19:21 | |
| alterego | Heh | 19:21 |
| alterego | I don't see why :P | 19:21 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, we didn't had any to begin with ;) | 19:21 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: df -h to confirm the MMC size from syslog - just in case things are screwy and to better see the partition layout | 19:22 |
| alterego | Jaffa: wouldn't cat /proc/partitions be better for that ;) | 19:22 |
| alterego | Well, I'm resigned to the fact that I probably wont be getting a package today :( | 19:22 |
| frals | Jaffa: dont make assumptions about n950 mmc size based on that ;o | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I was stupid enough to cat that | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | so wait till ssh clears out :p | 19:23 |
| frals | alehorst: i got a package today! | 19:23 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: cat what? | 19:23 |
| frals | uh, alterego* | 19:23 |
| alterego | /proc/partitions shouldn't be beg .. | 19:23 |
| jonwil | Hharmattan still has the closed source mess that is the CSD daemon | 19:23 |
| alterego | frals: :( | 19:23 |
| alterego | Everyone got a package but me. | 19:23 |
| javispedro | jonwil, that was known... | 19:23 |
| frals | alterego: was from Lee store thou. not sure what you are expecting :P | 19:23 |
| alterego | I'm expecting a Nokia N8 and a book on Qt | 19:23 |
| alterego | lcuk got his today :( | 19:24 |
| * jonwil is surprised at the amount of useful information out there if one knows where to look | 19:24 | |
| alterego | Can't believe they'd go to Mancester first, and he asked for a C5-03 as well .. | 19:24 |
| jonwil | or one finds it by accident looking for other things | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: yeah - the problem is that it's hideously organised. | 19:24 |
| MohammadAG | his what? N950? | 19:24 |
| alterego | I should probably look to get a tracking number if it doesn't arrive in the next couple of days. | 19:24 |
| achipa | frals: ditto. Not from Lee :) Not to think how to fit a 12mm oversize monitor into a desk frame... | 19:25 |
| Jaffa | frals: I don't assume anything, but if we go off yours having 16GB and another one having 60GB... | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: And the assumption is often that stuff is closed, when it may not be - because everything else it talks to is closed. | 19:25 |
| frals | Jaffa: im sure achipa can tell you his size ;-) | 19:25 |
| jonwil | Got an example of something that appears closed at first glance but isnt? | 19:25 |
| frals | achipa: heh, thats why desk frames are bad ;) | 19:25 |
| alterego | Jaffa: these test devices may need more storage to allow for more application developers to copy stuff on 'em. | 19:25 |
| jonwil | hmmm, maemosec and maemosec-certman seem to fit that bill IIRC | 19:25 |
| jonwil | they are open source | 19:26 |
| jonwil | including all the certificate files | 19:26 |
| jonwil | but the code isn't in the "free" repos | 19:26 |
| jonwil | its out there though | 19:26 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, 62 | 19:27 |
| achipa | frals: hey, when that desk was made, I'm pretty sure nobody expected monitors of that size, maybe not even TVs ;) | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | so 64GBs | 19:27 |
| frals | achipa: sounds like it's time for a new desk ;-) | 19:27 |
| jonwil | I found a whole pile of stuff related to bme and libbmeipc, I think with that I can make just about any BME libbmepic call | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, http://paste.ubuntu.com/634409/ | 19:27 |
| achipa | frals: still contemplating if I can around it by a software solution ;) | 19:28 |
| frals | :D | 19:28 |
| jonwil | there is also documentation for talking to both libcsd-net and libcsd-gprs out there | 19:28 |
| Jaffa | achipa: Can you confirm the MMC size of the DDP N950s? ;-) | 19:28 |
| achipa | Jaffa: 16G | 19:29 |
| Jaffa | achipa: Thanks | 19:29 |
| frals | achipa: any contact info for the remote device access crap? | 19:29 |
| achipa | frals: yes ? | 19:29 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x1BRwKTc | 19:30 |
| achipa | villev might have an idea :) | 19:30 |
| frals | ok, curious why they are using HW different from the DDP... | 19:30 |
| frals | guess ill go hunting in phonebook tomorrow at work ;p | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | so they're not the same devices | 19:31 |
| achipa | frals: no need | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Can you activate the front and back cameras and take photos of it, so we can see if it's black or silver? ;-) | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | (hoping there's a conveniently placed reflective surface & CSI-style photo enhancement software available to us) | 19:32 |
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| MohammadAG | Jaffa, RDA can't show that | 19:32 |
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| MohammadAG | and last time I took a pic with a 5800 I saw cables | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | got a gstreamer commad? | 19:32 |
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| MohammadAG | /dev nodes: http://pastebin.com/NJWYLPJn | 19:33 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: No idea | 19:33 |
| alterego | video{0,1,2,3,4,5,6} ? | 19:35 |
| achipa | Jaffa: and, of course, they are not DDP but, "N9DK" or whatever | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | don't look at me :p | 19:36 |
| achipa | ooofff.... something tells me the trolls use HD screens | 19:37 |
| achipa | just tried QtC on one and suddenly the size of stuff is right :) | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, any way to check if it has HDMI ports? so you can post on meego.com forums that it doesn't have any? :P | 19:38 |
| frals | achipa: i remember having to fiddle around when i tried it on my 2560x1920 screen at work ;( | 19:38 |
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| Jaffa | MohammadAG: We know it doesn't have any ports; the guy wants it to be a magic signal muxed into the headphone jack ;-) | 19:38 |
| achipa | frals: yeah, that's prolly too much, 1680x720 is still too small, 1920x1080 is just right | 19:39 |
| javispedro | oh it has many hdmi ports, as soon as I connect this DisplayLink device... | 19:39 |
| frals | achipa: as long as the screen size is decent as well. 1920x1080 on 15.6" is *NOT* right :D | 19:39 |
| achipa | yeah, yeah | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | oh that AEGIS shit is bullcrap | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# chmod +x sociality-harmattan-armel | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# ./sociality-harmattan-armel | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | -sh: ./sociality-harmattan-armel: Operation not permitted | 19:40 |
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| achipa | 24" is a minimum for HD, at least for my eyes, 27" is the ideal one | 19:40 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, try installing it from a .deb instead of using scp | 19:40 |
| frals | achipa: sounds about right :) | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I don't have a deb | 19:41 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: try not executing it on fat filesystem :P | 19:41 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: yeah, that is a pain | 19:41 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I'm use / isn't fat :p | 19:41 |
| javispedro | alterego, bad answer, msdos filesystem would have barked on chmod | 19:41 |
| frals | nuking /usr/sbin/validator-init should work on RDA | 19:41 |
| achipa | alterego: won't help, no running of executables not put there by package management/aegis | 19:41 |
| alterego | Oh, :/ | 19:42 |
| alterego | Is this the security crap? | 19:42 |
| javispedro | alterego, yes... | 19:42 |
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| alterego | Lame | 19:42 |
| alterego | I hope we can disable that | 19:42 |
| alterego | I want viruz | 19:42 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, but it's in developer mode | 19:42 |
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| javispedro | it's called "open mode" aiui | 19:42 |
| javispedro | no idea still what developer mode allows. | 19:42 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, to me developer-mode seems like a big metapackage | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | installs terminal etc | 19:43 |
| javispedro | just I believe it is "something lesser" than full open mode. | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: According to Quim developer mode *is* different to open mode | 19:43 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: that's not really how it goes... but you'll figure out | 19:43 |
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| javispedro | why the secrecy dammit? | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-developer-mode | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | Usage: | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | aegis-developer-mode [--developer-origin <value>] [--relaxed-exec] [--help] | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | --help Help screen (this) | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | --relaxed-exec Enable relaxed exec mode. | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | --developer-origin Set developer origin to be <value> | 19:43 |
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| javispedro | just ship the damn devices so that we can finally find aegis is THE EVIL REINCARNATED!!! ;) | 19:43 |
| achipa | yep, developer mode is the proprietary one, but with safety belts off | 19:43 |
| achipa | open mode is the one without the outer shell :) | 19:44 |
| javispedro | hmm | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | this is crappy at best | 19:44 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: --relaxed-exec sounds handy | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | I need to see what aegis does | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, permission denied | 19:44 |
| achipa | it's not that bad (compared to what it could be doing to you) | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec | 19:44 |
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| MohammadAG | Error: Permission denied | 19:44 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, resistance is futile. | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | usage: aegis-constrain COMMAND VALUE | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | The available commands are: | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | imei imei-code Test the imei number of the device | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | mode open Test the mode of the device (open) | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | ooh | 19:45 |
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| jonwil | By far the worst thing with information spelunking is when you find information that sounds great but turns out not to be available to you, e.g. the link to the (closed access) git repo here http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/xml/daily-docs/libcellular-qt/ | 19:46 |
| pabs3 | whee | 19:47 |
| javispedro | jonwil, lol | 19:48 |
| javispedro | jonwil, were you here yesterday when I discussed that ~120MiB source code leak | 19:48 |
| frals | source code leak? | 19:48 |
| Jaffa | ? | 19:48 |
| * javispedro is looking up irc logs link | 19:49 | |
| javispedro | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-28.log.html#t2011-06-28T01:17:34 | 19:49 |
| jonwil | package-manager is what exactly? | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | k, so we know how it adds executables | 19:50 |
| MohammadAG | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# /usr/bin/aegis-postinst-hook | 19:50 |
| javispedro | nobody I know could fetch it and see what was inside | 19:50 |
| jonwil | and what would have been in this tarball if we could have gotten it? | 19:50 |
| MohammadAG | Package name is missing | 19:50 |
| MohammadAG | and /usr/bin/aegis-preinst-hook | 19:50 |
| javispedro | jonwil, dunno, but it is surely not 120MiB. So there was way more there, or maybe just random garbage. Who knows. | 19:50 |
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| jonwil | unfortunatly the file was removed before anyone could snarf it | 19:50 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: In answer to your pre-rm for library patching - stash the original alongside the patched, and if it is missing fail the uninstall | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | yay, icd2 in Harmattan | 19:52 |
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| javispedro | jonwil, but it has been very close, I had been also talking about package-manager itself yesterday so I had scheduled downloading it as soon as I got home | 19:54 |
| javispedro | and then realized it was gone -- must have been yesterday or two days ago max | 19:55 |
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| * javispedro ponders the evil deeds he could have done with 120MiB of who-knows-what | 19:55 | |
| frals | javispedro: 120MiB of german midget porn? ;) | 19:56 |
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| javispedro | eeww | 19:56 |
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| javispedro | what are 120MiB of german midget porn doing in harmattan-dev.nokia.com ? =) | 19:58 |
| MohammadAG | and how does frals know? :P | 19:58 |
| javispedro | I mean, I've seen worse stuff in professor's completely public samba shares, but.. | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: thanks | 19:58 |
| MohammadAG | how does aegis work? | 19:58 |
| MohammadAG | I mean, how does it hook into the device? kernel? | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I can't believe nobody is running a git mirror for $nokia | 19:59 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, if you don't know, it's working | 19:59 |
| Corsac | MohammadAG: yes, and a userspace daemon | 19:59 |
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| MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G92Ugk7c | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn you MohammadAG - 18000 lines of pastebin :-P | 20:03 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 20:03 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, can a qml file in a binary be decompiled? | 20:03 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: QML files aren't compiled yet. Coming in Qt Quick 2.0, IIRC | 20:04 |
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| Jaffa | MohammadAG: So they're only bundled/compressed as qrcs | 20:04 |
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| MohammadAG | actually no use, C++ backend | 20:05 |
| javispedro | so they can | 20:05 |
| javispedro | hm | 20:05 |
| Jaffa | Interesting: the Drive & Facebook apps seems to be QML | 20:05 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Is that what you were looking at? | 20:05 |
| frals | MohammadAG: dont steal my code ;-) | 20:05 |
| * javispedro notes that webos-closed components are actually more hackable than Maemo's, because, after all they're HTML and JavaScript | 20:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: where's the mystery tarball been sitting? | 20:05 |
| javispedro | so people just hack on them right away | 20:05 |
| javispedro | and distribute patches (quilt files actually) | 20:05 |
| javispedro | so, if QML is not compiled... | 20:06 |
| * javispedro stops daydreaming | 20:06 | |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, you have the full url on irc logs | 20:06 |
| hiemanshu | well from the comments on my app post, it seems like plain Qt is ugly on the N9 atleast | 20:06 |
| javispedro | hiemanshu, why? | 20:06 |
| hiemanshu | 'They could be bigger, utilize the whole toolbar (not just the right corner of it) and look less like Windows 95 :-)' | 20:07 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: ^ | 20:07 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, yes, facebookqml | 20:07 |
| MohammadAG | stringing the binary shows the QML files, but they're more than 1, so ripping each one is a bit hard :p | 20:07 |
| frals | MohammadAG: and you would be in violation with the license | 20:07 |
| MohammadAG | frals, fu I'm selling it on ebay! | 20:07 |
| frals | s/with/of/ maybe | 20:07 |
| MohammadAG | Valerio, isn't that VDVsx? | 20:08 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Yup | 20:08 |
| javispedro | hiemanshu, you should try it yourself on sbox sdk | 20:08 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: it looks fine there, but that is a comment I got on my app | 20:09 |
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| MohammadAG | frals, jk, naturally :p | 20:09 |
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| hiemanshu | except QWebView just crashes in the sbox SDK | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | so VDVsx wrote the facebook app | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | I suggest again, using QLabel | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | QWebView isn't practical for an image | 20:10 |
| frals | MohammadAG: what are you basing that on? ;) | 20:10 |
| javispedro | QWebView for an image? | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: honestly, somebody should set up a mirror for http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/ and sync 2 times a day | 20:10 |
| javispedro | that's probably entire webkit... | 20:10 |
| MohammadAG | frals, nothing, just his (C) being in each qml file | 20:10 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, technically we can only do for packages in free | 20:10 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: well more than an image, it does some scraping too | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | technically? | 20:10 |
| frals | MohammadAG: sure it says (C) Valerio? ;) | 20:10 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: have the bug link handy? | 20:10 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, ok, legally. | 20:11 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Usually such things should say (C) <employer> | 20:11 |
| javispedro | (C) 2011 Stephen Elop, All Rights Reserved. | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can download whatever they offer. I mustn't share | 20:11 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: (the sbox webview bug) | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | big difference | 20:11 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, you said "Mirror". | 20:11 |
| javispedro | but I get the idea. | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, Contact:, nvm :p | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | I didn't say publicly accessible mirror | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG | http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197 and povbot, stfu | 20:12 |
| povbot | Bug 197: kernel builds, but device keeps rebooting | 20:12 |
| frals | wtf | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: aiui there are ready-made scripts for that purpose? | 20:13 |
| javispedro | hate povbot being in red | 20:13 |
| frals | i need to signin to VIEW bugs there? | 20:13 |
| * frals spits | 20:13 | |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, wget can | 20:13 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, man wget, grep for spider | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, indeed | 20:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now if I had a bit more storage than the meager 30GB on my box | 20:14 |
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| javispedro | in the near future I'm going to download-spider the docs, cause I want them in plucker version | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | backbone you don't think that'S possible, but only 30GB :-/ | 20:14 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: /dev/sda1 917G 208G 705G 23% /mnt/storage1 | 20:14 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: only on 100Mbit downlink thou :[ | 20:14 |
| javispedro | [sda] 195371568 512-byte logical blocks: (100 GB/93.1 GiB) | 20:15 |
| javispedro | don't laugh. | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00 47G 8.5G 36G 20% / | 20:15 |
| GAN900 | Ha! | 20:16 |
| MohammadAG | hahaha | 20:16 |
| MohammadAG | what am I laughing at? | 20:16 |
| javispedro | who has the shortest epenis competition! | 20:16 |
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| frals | /dev/mmcblk0p2 6.7G 1.7G 4.8G 26% / | 20:17 |
| frals | on this machine :< | 20:17 |
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| javispedro | frals, cheating, that's an embedded device | 20:17 |
| frals | javispedro: bah :( its my sheeva! | 20:18 |
| MohammadAG | lemme telnet into my decoder box | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2011-06-28 19:17:50 (6.40 MB/s) - `binutils_2.19.51.20090709-0maemo10+0m6.tar.gz' saved [21038587/21038587] | 20:18 |
| javispedro | my router has a 16MiB flash chip. of which 15MiB are used =) | 20:18 |
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| frals | think my router actually has 64MiB | 20:18 |
| frals | or not | 20:19 |
| frals | /dev/root 5.6M 5.6M 0 100% / | 20:19 |
| * jonwil is surprised that Harmattan seems to be taking backwards steps on openness in a few areas | 20:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I have to talk to my 'sysadmin' to give me some more GB | 20:19 |
| frals | <3 dd-wrt | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG | mostly the UI jonwil | 20:19 |
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| MohammadAG | dd-wrt didn't support my "open" router, so <3 OpenWRT :P | 20:20 |
| jonwil | I dont think the UI of Harmattan is any less open than that of Fremantle | 20:20 |
| jonwil | the core UI libs all seem to be open | 20:20 |
| jonwil | for the most part | 20:20 |
| javispedro | we need objective data on this | 20:20 |
| javispedro | cause I also got that feeling. | 20:20 |
| jonwil | and the actual apps are just as closed as they were on Fremantle | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | it is | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | swiping is closed | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | email client is closed, modest was open :p | 20:21 |
| jonwil | yeah that sucks that the email client is closed | 20:21 |
| javispedro | revolt! grab the pitchforks! | 20:21 |
| Jaffa | Especially if it sucks. Spoiled by iOS' on the iPad understanding archiving etc. for Gmail | 20:21 |
| jonwil | I suspect the package manager is closed because of all the new security stuff | 20:21 |
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| javispedro | jonwil, security is actually also handled by apt-get (has to be), so I don't think so | 20:22 |
| Jaffa | jonwil: Aegis itself was supposed to be open source | 20:22 |
| frals | iirc parts of securitycrap is on meego.gitorious.org | 20:23 |
| frals | or somewhere around there, no telling what happend when intel took a shit on it thou | 20:23 |
| jonwil | swiping being closed makes sense, its something fancy Nokia have invented and dont want to share | 20:23 |
| frals | MohammadAG: qmf is open thou! ;-) | 20:24 |
| jonwil | email client being closed, if its a totally new written-from-scratch email client then it is probably closed for the same reasons dialer and other UI/UX is closed | 20:25 |
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| javispedro | jonwil, sadly what worries me about swipe is the definition of it. For now, I understand it includes the slidng animations, swipe gesture detection actual algorithm, swipe launcher, swipe task switcher, swipe coffee maker machine.. | 20:25 |
| javispedro | all of them closed. | 20:25 |
| jonwil | yeah its stupid that its closed | 20:26 |
| jonwil | but Nokia invented it and dont want to share | 20:26 |
| jonwil | They probably also dont want to see people hacking certain bits of it in ways they dont want (e.g. talk about people wanting close buttons on apps) | 20:26 |
| javispedro | technically that is doable | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: maybe the 120MB tarball had the complete apt cache? | 20:27 |
| jonwil | apt-get is GPL, is it not? | 20:27 |
| javispedro | jonwil, I think there can be "hooks" into it that can be in separate binaries, and that's how they do it | 20:27 |
| javispedro | it has a name, I don't remember it | 20:27 |
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| javispedro | s/they do it/they get away with it | 20:28 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, or midget porn. I really have no idea. The only way I could think of filling 120MiB is with all the theme source images, or sth. | 20:28 |
| javispedro | jonwil, ah, "triggers" | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, aegis-postinst-hook | 20:30 |
| javispedro | oh, so there's fmrx and tx hardware, ut no antenna connected to tx, | 20:31 |
| javispedro | and headphones as antenna as usual for rx | 20:31 |
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| RST38h | Produce purveyors create edible iPhone | 20:33 |
| jonwil | btw, whoever it was that said they wanted a hald-addon-bme replacement, I posted a message to the devel list with all the information required to allow one to completly replace bme, libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme with something talking directly to the hardware | 20:33 |
| RST38h | I am sure N9 can't do that! | 20:33 |
| jonwil | and yet mantain functionality of all the closed-source bits | 20:33 |
| frals | <jonwil> They probably also dont want to see people hacking certain bits of it in ways they dont want (e.g. talk about people wanting close buttons on apps) | 20:33 |
| frals | but we have swipe down to close! ;-) | 20:33 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: N9 surely can be eaten. | 20:35 |
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| javispedro | you might even gain superpowers if you survive the experience. | 20:35 |
| RST38h | oh | 20:35 |
| javispedro | which you will need cause Elop will then come and kill you for promoting the N9. | 20:35 |
| RST38h | If I survive the experience, I may have well hadthe super powersto begin with | 20:36 |
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| cloudyLights | how come there is no "screen" for the N900 | 20:38 |
| cloudyLights | apt-get install screen = no package | 20:38 |
| cloudyLights | what? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: NO antenna on TX?? W*T*F??!?!! | 20:39 |
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| cloudyLights | TX? | 20:39 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23726&postcount=301 | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder if they were at very least polite enough to have a testpoint then | 20:42 |
| RST38h | Doc: I am sure that with an electrode connecting the N950 with just the right part of one's body, FMTX is also possible! | 20:42 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 20:42 |
| javispedro | now I realize that fmtx is probably broken since day 0 on my n900 | 20:43 |
| ShadowJK | hm? | 20:43 |
| RST38h | well...n900 fmtx is very very weak | 20:43 |
| javispedro | cause it's not normal that I'm the only one not caring about it because it's range was in the centimers | 20:44 |
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| RST38h | to thepoint of unusability | 20:44 |
| javispedro | RST38h, so yours too? =) | 20:44 |
| RST38h | Yep | 20:44 |
| ShadowJK | A coworker once said he heard the fmtx, and he was standing 20 metres away :P | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, that's what you earn by not running your device thru DocScrutinizer's acme awesome hw QA | 20:44 |
| RST38h | Your receiver has to have a really good antenna, then it gets a bit better | 20:44 |
| javispedro | _no car I've ever been could listen to the n900 fmtx_ | 20:44 |
| javispedro | _none_ | 20:44 |
| ShadowJK | cars are special | 20:44 |
| valdyn | RST38h: it can work perfectly fine | 20:45 |
| RST38h | Doc: does the first answer say "no"? | 20:45 |
| valdyn | RST38h: thats typically cars with window antennnae | 20:45 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: works for me | 20:45 |
| RST38h | javispedro: driver's side, n900 in your left pocket, external car antenna fully extended | 20:45 |
| RST38h | javispedro: only then it works, not very well though | 20:45 |
| jacekowski | javispedro: emm, my car can | 20:46 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: external antenna doesn't help | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: sorry? | 20:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Optimal range is perhaps 5-6m | 20:46 |
| javispedro | truth be said I've never tested n900 in driver's side.. | 20:47 |
| RST38h | Doc: i.e. is your QA about things one CANNOT do with N900? =) | 20:47 |
| RST38h | Speed: Never works this far with n900 | 20:47 |
| RST38h | Speed:50cm is about the max range for me | 20:47 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: range to what? | 20:47 |
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| ShadowJK | In my car, the external antenna can't see any signal at all from the N900. The radio isn't very well shielded though, so that's the signal path, direct to radio | 20:47 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: range from n900 to an fm receiver | 20:48 |
| ShadowJK | I put the N900 in the tray below the radio | 20:48 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: exactly | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter#Typical_Range | 20:48 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: metal roof shields antenna from n900 quite well | 20:48 |
| valdyn | RST38h: you mean transciever | 20:48 |
| valdyn | RST38h: err nm | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: my QA is about better schematics and about getting the most out of the precious chips you buy | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: That's basically the best use-case - to a good reciever with a proper antenna, set up in a field | 20:48 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: radio is shielded quite well too | 20:48 |
| RST38h | Speed: does not make me feel better | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | With an empty spectrum | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | In congested regions - it's not going to work at all. | 20:49 |
| javispedro | at 50cm I get pure noise with n900 and a handheld received. | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: it's not for you to transmit to every car on motorway | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: works for me | 20:49 |
| javispedro | *receiver. | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: i have it on lowest possible frequency | 20:49 |
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| rlinfati | Pirates_of_Caribbean.mp4, Rio.mp4, Tron_Legacy.mp4 on N950 via RDA :P | 20:49 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, also start fmtx first, run fmboost (probably useless since 1.3), then connect charger while fmtx is running and playing. Seems to boost it a bit :-) | 20:49 |
| javispedro | rlinfati, last years device =) | 20:50 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: ekhm, you are teaching me what do with fmtx? | 20:50 |
| rlinfati | C:\home\user\MyDocs\Movies | 20:50 |
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| valdyn | ShadowJK: depends on your car, i would say the charger more often than not causes annoying interference | 20:50 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, no I said what I'm doing :P | 20:50 |
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| MohammadAG | my N900's FMTX is actually quite good | 20:50 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: are you using my modified fmtxd? | 20:50 |
| ShadowJK | valdyn, it's a nokia DC-10 (or 11?), doesn't seem to cause any interference at all.. | 20:50 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, nope | 20:50 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: you should | 20:51 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: that boosts power a bit | 20:51 |
| valdyn | ShadowJK: probably, i only know cheap car chargers | 20:51 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: and does some other stuff as well | 20:51 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: like it's not switching off/reducing power when you plug in usb to it | 20:51 |
| javispedro | I have a chinese car GPS that also has an fmtx, and its range is probably in the kilometers. If I connect it I get not only crystal clear sound but also _noise on other frequencies_ | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | that kernel "lock" they introduced in 1.3 prevents it from stepping down power if you turn on fmtx first, it seems | 20:52 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: it doesn't | 20:52 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: you can still do it via ioctls | 20:52 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: and that's how fmtxd is doing it | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're aware the TX power reduction on charger plugin is basically nonsense as there's always a chance user plugs in a mere single ended USB cable | 20:52 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: yeah | 20:53 |
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| RST38h | javispedro:just proves that chinese are practical | 20:53 |
| RST38h | javispedro:and will end up owning the world outside of the courtroom =) | 20:54 |
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| jacekowski | tbh, there should be like 1MHz at low end of spectrum where you can transmit with bit more power | 20:55 |
| jacekowski | and that should be used for all micro transmitters | 20:55 |
| jacekowski | or even single frequency on very low end | 20:55 |
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| MohammadAG | so | 21:05 |
| MohammadAG | anyone got tips on getting the public IP of a device? | 21:05 |
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| valdyn | MohammadAG: www.whatismyip.com | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Turn it upside down, and look at the post-it-note | 21:05 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, indeed | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | valdyn: looks like a really rogue site | 21:09 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Go to wikipedia. | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Don't login. click edit | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | It tells you your IP | 21:10 |
| valdyn | DocScrutinizer: a rogue site? | 21:11 |
| valdyn | DocScrutinizer: youre joking right? | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | platered with popups and js crap, and maybe all other sorts of nasty beasts | 21:11 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, valdyn something with wget/curl please | 21:12 |
| valdyn | DocScrutinizer: ok, I wouldnt know, i filter ads and similar, but its not a rogue site anyway | 21:12 |
| valdyn | MohammadAG: that site has instructions | 21:12 |
| valdyn | MohammadAG: below your ip "Automation Rules" | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (echo -ne '\x00\x01\x00\x08'; \ echo -n "$session"; \ echo -ne '\x00\x03\x00\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00'\ ) \ | netcat -w ${t_listen} -u ${stunserver} ${port} \ | od -w4 -t u1 -j 28 -N 4 -A n \ | sed 's/^ *//g;s/\ */./g' | 21:13 |
| valdyn | MohammadAG: http://automation.whatismyip.com/n09230945.asp gives me *only* the ip | 21:13 |
| * javispedro notes DocScrutinizer should remember we are talking about messybox here | 21:14 | |
| MohammadAG | can't find them | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | session=`tr -d -c [:alnum:] < /dev/urandom | dd bs=16 count=1 2>/dev/null` | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 21:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: http://www.heise.de/netze/tools/whois-abfrage | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://youripis.org/ | 21:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | realy lean: http://monip.net/ | 21:18 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no dice on busybox | 21:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, sure | 21:19 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, either way: don't. it will be hidden behind a thousand layers of nat | 21:20 |
| javispedro | ipv4s are not that cheap these days to assign one to each RDA device | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you bet on that | 21:21 |
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| javispedro | maybe ipv6 =9 | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | but he pierced a hole into the NAT aiui | 21:21 |
| javispedro | then ssh into your computer :P | 21:22 |
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| javispedro | google has closed the paid apps section in the taiwanese android market because of a new state law that mandates consumers have 7-days to return goods | 21:24 |
| javispedro | fun. | 21:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Great! | 21:25 |
| ShadowJK | it's 14 days in EU | 21:26 |
| alterego | Heh | 21:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I don't think that applies to software. | 21:28 |
| cehteh | ever tried to return a burger to Mc Donalds 14days after buying? :) | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Also - if they don't comply with the distance selling rules it may be considerably longer - IIRC 6 months 14 days | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: Only online purchases of non-perishable goods. | 21:28 |
| ShadowJK | It was (is?) actually better in finland before EU's imposed DSR | 21:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | ? | 21:30 |
| ruskie | last I checked the EU wide minimal is 14 days for distance selling | 21:30 |
| ShadowJK | after the harmonized EU rules, buyer pays return shipping | 21:30 |
| ruskie | though iirc the UK has it set to longer than that | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, ping? | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | (or rm_you) | 21:32 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: pong | 21:32 |
| rm_work | low latency today | 21:32 |
| rm_work | though not for long | 21:32 |
| rm_work | whats up? | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, you do much photography? fiferboy and I are talking over working on a simple photography suite for MeeGo. | 21:32 |
| ruskie | hmm nice... managed to flash a fresh kernel now with hotspot stuff | 21:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | (as part of the N950 pitch, of course) | 21:32 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: I've done some | 21:32 |
| rm_work | took Digital Photo 101 in college, got 110% <_< | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Light meter, GPX track recorder, that sort of thing. | 21:33 |
| rm_work | hrm, not much experience with light meter | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Low programming effort, reasonably high reward. | 21:33 |
| rm_work | I know basics like f/stop and such | 21:33 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: if you need a dev i'd be interested ;) | 21:34 |
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| rm_work | i mean, there's a pretty good list of all the relevant things in any photo's EXIF data | 21:34 |
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| rm_work | and all of them are researchable on wikipedia :P | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, ah, good. | 21:34 |
| rm_work | but yeah it is more helpful to have a dev who is already intimately familiar | 21:35 |
| rm_work | if alterego is a photography geek, pick him :P | 21:35 |
| rm_work | otherwise, i could probably help | 21:35 |
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| alterego | Well I have the geolocation experience and I like taking pics and videos, but I wouldn't say I'm extremely knowledgable about the subject. | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, well, probably 4 or 5 small applications. | 21:36 |
| alterego | light meter is fairly simple. | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I doubt we're going to be full-up on talented people. | 21:36 |
| rm_work | lol k | 21:36 |
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| alterego | Is it me or am I the only one that hasn't wrote an essay for the ddp submission? | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mine's fairly short. | 21:38 |
| alterego | I just wrote: I want to update my apps, write some new ones, and continue my meego platform work. | 21:38 |
| alterego | Oh and that sexual favours aren*mt out-of-the-question | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | 250 words or so. | 21:40 |
| alterego | Anyway, we'll all know in a couple of days or so. | 21:40 |
| alterego | Was there a word limit? | 21:40 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, 3 lines | 21:40 |
| MohammadAG | I'll be writing a brightness applet for the N950 in a bit | 21:40 |
| MohammadAG | well, once I find the status menu API | 21:40 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: cool | 21:40 |
| alterego | I want to write a widget plugin setup for the lock screen .. | 21:40 |
| * javispedro 's "essay" is 293 words | 21:43 | |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I can't find the status menu API thoguh :p | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG | though | 21:43 |
| alterego | Hurp | 21:43 |
| alterego | Well, we use the same thing in meego so ... | 21:43 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, mcompositor draws it, and it is opensource. | 21:44 |
| javispedro | and alterego is right =) | 21:44 |
| * javispedro away to commute | 21:44 | |
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| rm_work | wooo competing brightness applets :P | 21:44 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, MTF? | 21:44 |
| rm_work | bbl, meetings T_T | 21:45 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: let me know | 21:45 |
| * rm_work runs to a meeting | 21:45 | |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: I don't know the area very well, I thought it was related to sysui | 21:45 |
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| alterego | Hmm, I could use one of my N900s as an internet connected security camera | 21:47 |
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| * alterego contemplates an easy pan and tilt asembly. | 21:47 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | alterego, hrm, need a name for the suite. | 21:49 |
| alterego | Hmm, SnapSuite? | 21:49 |
| * alterego chuckles | 21:49 | |
| hiemanshu | gah, stupid question, but where do I change the version in Qt Creator to change the package version? | 21:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | PhotoGo | 21:52 |
| hiemanshu | I use google translate to name my apps :P | 21:53 |
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| * ruskie wonders if there will be a fully rooted n9 with all the fancy stuff that one can do on the n900 eventually... | 21:53 | |
| GeneralAntilles | SnapGo | 21:53 |
| alterego | GoSnapMee | 21:53 |
| kerio | ruskie: i'd assume i can buy a n9 and install xterm or something | 21:53 |
| ruskie | that still doesn't say anything about rooting it | 21:54 |
| piggz | why in theme customiser is the option disabled to 'not draw icon backgrounds'...is it because of a different hildon-home from cssu? | 21:54 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: what about "Aperture"? | 21:55 |
| * GeneralAntilles hides from the Apple thugs. | 21:55 | |
| alterego | Oh, is that used? | 21:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that's Apple's photo manager. | 21:55 |
| alterego | Lame .. | 21:55 |
| ruskie | do you plan on selling it in the appstore? | 21:55 |
| ruskie | then I don't really see much of a problem | 21:56 |
| ruskie | as in the apple app store that is | 21:56 |
| alterego | "Hershel"? | 21:56 |
| alterego | :) | 21:56 |
| alterego | I like to name my software after pioneers | 21:56 |
| RST38h | Snapster! | 21:56 |
| owenh | Anyone know how to get sound in a debian chroot on an n810? | 21:56 |
| RST38h | Snappleste^H^Hsorry | 21:56 |
| alterego | Snaptacular? | 21:57 |
| RST38h | Snappilicious | 21:57 |
| ruskie | Snappy | 21:57 |
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| RST38h | Photoshitster | 21:57 |
| alterego | Flasher? | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Photohipster | 21:58 |
| * alterego chuckles | 21:58 | |
| RST38h | Gan:+! | 21:58 |
| RST38h | Lumiere? | 21:58 |
| fiferboy | I liked Photohipster before it was cool | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should appeal to the Finns. | 21:58 |
| alterego | "Tripod" | 21:59 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: Jesus liked you before you were hip | 21:59 |
| RST38h | Trippster! | 21:59 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: I was never hip | 22:00 |
| RST38h | This means Jesus still likes you, doesn't it? | 22:01 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: True, maybe I will be hip sometime in the future | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF? essay for DDP? | 22:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: GeneralAntilles: what are you talking about? | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | two days ago it's been a project homepage beauty contest, now we need an essay to apply for devel-devs? | 22:04 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: Better start discussing it with the Tentacled One, for a smooth transition! | 22:04 |
| alterego | Apparently, :D | 22:04 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: Asparagus? | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, putting together a website for a photography suite for MeeGo. | 22:04 |
| RST38h | General: Is there a photography suite? | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I hope you keep the copyright, as this sounds like the start of facebook-2.0 to me | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, plans only. | 22:04 |
| RST38h | General: Then why the web site? :) | 22:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, for the N950 proposal, of course. :P | 22:05 |
| alterego | I still like flasher | 22:05 |
| RST38h | General: rotfl | 22:05 |
| alterego | Or "Exposure" | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: >><alterego> Is it me or am I the only one that hasn't wrote an essay for the ddp submission? | 22:06 |
| RST38h | alterego: iExposure! | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also, because it's a good way to kick-start myself into making the website for myself that I've been procrastinating on for years. | 22:06 |
| RST38h | General: bad, bad idea | 22:06 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: I've had a few people show me their submissions and they put my 3 lines to shame :P | 22:06 |
| alterego | fockus? | 22:06 |
| RST38h | hocus! | 22:07 |
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| alterego | YetAnotherPhotographyPackage | 22:07 |
| RST38h | hockus, actually | 22:07 |
| alterego | YAPP | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I don't give a damn f* about whether they accept my application or not. I'm just offering to help on a subject I'm not really excited or involved | 22:07 |
| derf | I know if I had to read those submissions, I'd award bonus points for brevity. | 22:07 |
| RST38h | onSteroids - YAPPSTER | 22:07 |
| * RST38h has got brevity there | 22:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer | but gonestly, this application contest starts to become ridiculous | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly even | 22:08 |
| RST38h | only due to the lackofresponse | 22:08 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Tagline - "Expose yourself!" | 22:08 |
| derf | More ridiculous than "Karma doesn't matter. Don't worry about karma. Oh, we're giving devices to people with at least X karma"? | 22:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 22:09 |
| RST38h | BTW | 22:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - if you said 'karma matters' - imagine the drama beforehand | 22:09 |
| RST38h | derf: Got an Android 2.3 device and DDMS? | 22:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | So there was basically no choice. | 22:09 |
| alterego | tbh, the N900 DDP was a fucking farce :P | 22:09 |
| derf | I think my Android device is only 2.2, still. | 22:09 |
| RST38h | derf: May not work =( | 22:10 |
| alterego | I ended up buying an N900 full price, taking out a second contract just to get one. | 22:10 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: Dorkroom? | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 22:10 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: I mean, DarkRoom? | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | MeeGoDorkRoom | 22:10 |
| derf | alterego: So did I, except without the contract. | 22:10 |
| fiferboy | MeeDarkGoRoom? | 22:10 |
| alterego | GoDarkMeeRoom | 22:11 |
| derf | Because I didn't actually need a phone, I just needed a device to test code on. | 22:11 |
| alterego | MacroStudio? | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I ended up buying one too. | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I managed to get some ridiculous amount off. | 22:11 |
| fiferboy | StudioSuite | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I think I ended up paying 40%. | 22:11 |
| RST38h | Solution or PhotoSolution | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Counting all of the discounts and rebates, and cashback due to testing programs. | 22:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | photons | 22:12 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I don't like to think of it as a contest | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't work with the community concept | 22:13 |
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| * RST38h agrees with Mohammad on this | 22:13 | |
| SpeedEvil | Unless you're giving devices out like candy - it pretty much needs to be. | 22:14 |
| alterego | I would actually honestly prefer not to get a device, if there were 250 better applications. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | in the end it *is* a contest, and it seems the rules are moving target | 22:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Problem is that some people will take the device, and do nothing with it. | 22:14 |
| alterego | And Quim is very pragmatic, so I trust his judgement. | 22:14 |
| derf | DocScrutinizer: That's life, I suppose. | 22:14 |
| SpeedEvil | And how to find that is hard. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | problem is most people are eager to receive and *keep* a device | 22:15 |
| alterego | Yes | 22:15 |
| alterego | I'm sure if I don't get one from the DDP I can procure one by another means. | 22:15 |
| ds3 | is this for the N950? | 22:16 |
| alterego | I heard there's a Qt Ambassador programme .. | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and Quim did no good job in telling this might actually work | 22:16 |
| ruskie | nokia just needs to actually sell the n950 | 22:16 |
| alterego | Neah | 22:17 |
| alterego | The N950 is even more out-of-date than the N9 | 22:17 |
| alterego | And the N9 will sell well, I think it will sell extremely well | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: indeed, or at least tell they'll do. And make damn sure they want N950 back after 6 weeks | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | would reduce the amount of "it's free, it's cool, and chances are better than on lottery" applications drastically | 22:18 |
| alterego | Seriously, when the day comes up to give it back for an N9 or keep it, I'm getting an N9 .. | 22:18 |
| alterego | I have an N900 with a keyboard, the N9 will make a great keyboardless primary device. | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: Or a bluetooth keyboard. :) | 22:19 |
| alterego | And the N900 will stay with me, as a light SSH terminal when I need it, or when I want to write essays on the move .. | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably you're right on that | 22:19 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: yup, I've got one of those too. | 22:19 |
| ruskie | https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/store/product.php?productid=17&cat=1&page=1 <-- I'm gonna get myself one of these for a bt keyboard | 22:19 |
| alterego | I got a BT keyboard for 15 GBP (~30 USD) the other day. | 22:19 |
| alterego | Works great, it's light, compact and charges via mini usb | 22:20 |
| SpeedEvil | mini usb? | 22:20 |
| alterego | That's the keyboard I use with the exo | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | the OS clearly isn't tailored for a N950 class of device, and the c-ts of N950 makes it less attractive than N900 if you want that class anyway | 22:20 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: you know, the connector the 770 had :P | 22:20 |
| alterego | And the N800 iirc | 22:20 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 22:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if you want the OS (i.e. harmattan meego) then N9 is the better device for sure | 22:21 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: well, there's the other side, will the N950 ever get official images in line with the N9? | 22:21 |
| ruskie | I should just get a second n900 | 22:21 |
| alterego | I doubt it .. | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | N950 would be my dream device with fremantle and a r-ts, not with meego-harmattan and c-ts | 22:22 |
| ds3 | but the N950 is a better replacement for the N900 hw if you are going to muck with it | 22:22 |
| alterego | ds3: maybe | 22:22 |
| ds3 | the unknown seems to be - how is the N950 going to be sold... can anyone give $$$ and get one? | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: exactly. N950 is a dead platform right now | 22:23 |
| alterego | I have a few N900s plenty to mod, and the N900 is far from being redundant for me .. | 22:23 |
| ds3 | alterego: the microsim elimates the N9 before it is even considered | 22:23 |
| alterego | ds3: I don't see why that is a problem. | 22:23 |
| alterego | ds3: can you not get microsims? | 22:23 |
| ds3 | alterego: the only way I can get a microsim is to cut my sim but then I can't use it again in my N900 | 22:24 |
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| Atarii | you can use an adapter | 22:24 |
| alterego | ds3: I think you probably can | 22:24 |
| gri | why would you exchange the sim all the time? | 22:24 |
| alterego | ds3: if you keep the other half and slot it in after the actual sim part ;) | 22:25 |
| alterego | gri: battery going flat? | 22:25 |
| ds3 | cuz phone plan pricing is messed up | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: I got a really precious SIM from 1998 which is still of the cloneable type, I'd never let it expire to go for replacement, nor would I want to change my number for N9 | 22:25 |
| gri | alterego: An usb adapter helps for that also | 22:25 |
| ds3 | I can't combine 2 accounts with the same carrier w/o increasing my overall bill but at least 50% | 22:26 |
| alterego | gri: what? | 22:26 |
| alterego | A USB adapter for what? | 22:26 |
| gri | alterego: For loading the flat battery if you're not in a discotheque or something like that | 22:26 |
| ds3 | you just cannot get a unlimited 3G enabled service with voice for under $35/month | 22:27 |
| alterego | I was right, http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/6992 | 22:27 |
| alterego | Qt Ambassador N950 programme .. | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 22:28 |
| RST38h | alterego: Ambassa-what??? | 22:28 |
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| alterego | I'm suprised this got 0 coverage | 22:28 |
| alterego | I got told by a friend in Nokia about it | 22:28 |
| alterego | Just did a quick google and there you go. | 22:28 |
| alterego | How come no one picked up on this before me?! | 22:28 |
| RST38h | So what is it, N950s for bloggers? | 22:28 |
| alterego | RST38h: A Qt Ambassador is a Qt FOSS coder that has proven to be helpful to the commmunity | 22:29 |
| alterego | It sounds (from that thread) that their applications are similar to ours, it's an app store filler programme. | 22:29 |
| alterego | Also, btw, Nokia do _not_ want the N950 in bloggers hands ;) | 22:30 |
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| RST38h | Mhm | 22:31 |
| frals | uh | 22:33 |
| frals | "Should ‘Qt Ambassadors’ get limited edition ‘Nokia N950 phone’" | 22:33 |
| frals | i missed the post saying they are getting it? | 22:33 |
| alterego | Read the one that says they should check their email | 22:34 |
| alterego | And the n the ones after it saytalking about the form they're filling it .. | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and receiving confirmation on July 6 | 22:37 |
| alterego | A week wednesday aye | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, never knew I need to become a Qt Ambassador X-P | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | pffff | 22:37 |
| alterego | The fact it's been kept so quiet, makes me want to become one | 22:37 |
| alterego | Well, it makes me want to join Qt | 22:38 |
| alterego | I spoke to loads of them in SF, they were all so nice. | 22:38 |
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| alterego | "Collectors will probably call the N9 the best pure Nokia phone of all time." - He's not wrong .. | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | judging by the length of that thread I guess there were probably an amazing 30 Ambassadors that applied. Then OTOH you dunno how many develdevs they will hand out to those Ambassadors in the end | 22:39 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: actually, those 30 are just the people that didn't read their email or care to enquire further in the forum | 22:39 |
| alterego | Maybe there's more info in mls | 22:39 |
| alterego | And in my experience, most people just fill in the forms and send them off. | 22:40 |
| alterego | What's there to talk about really? | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, and what's interesting in Qt Ambassadors in the end? | 22:40 |
| alterego | Not sure what you mean there | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's just a joke they are a completely segregate group also developing apps for harmattan now | 22:41 |
| alterego | You mean, why are they giving out devkits to Qt Ambassadors? | 22:41 |
| alterego | Well, I think you'll find there is a lot of cross-over | 22:42 |
| alterego | The Qt area is mainly focused around Symbian and MeeGo though | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet I'm going to see a lot of redundancy | 22:42 |
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| alterego | I'm starting to think I might not unbox the N950 and keep it in an airtight room ;) | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 22:43 |
| alterego | "My Precious!" | 22:44 |
| alterego | That would make a good video | 22:44 |
| alterego | "The Lord of the NITs" | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | rotfl | 22:44 |
| alterego | Or "The Finlander" | 22:45 |
| alterego | "There can be only one! (N950 owner)" | 22:46 |
| alterego | I think I like that one even more :D | 22:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer giggles | 22:46 | |
| * alterego is thinking of all sorts of short films. | 22:46 | |
| hiemanshu | alterego: "Dead or Alive" its funny if you get the phun :P | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah - smash the opponent's N950, take the junk as spareparts for your own | 22:47 |
| alterego | hiemanshu: heh ;) | 22:47 |
| hiemanshu | there is also "The attack of the WPs" | 22:47 |
| alterego | Hah | 22:48 |
| alterego | "Episode 3: Revenge of the MeeGo" | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh I think N950 is too rare to get momentum as a real collector's item | 22:48 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: but it would be nice to have the full NIT range! | 22:48 |
| alterego | I literally have every one released. | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have here 2 prototype boards of Openmoko GTA02 Diversity | 22:48 |
| alterego | 770, N800, N810, N900 | 22:48 |
| alterego | I need an N950 and an N9 in my life! | 22:49 |
| * hiemanshu only owns a N900 | 22:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | don't think anybody is interested in them at all | 22:49 |
| alterego | Just so I can take a picture of them all together. | 22:49 |
| alterego | Sure, but it's a legac | 22:49 |
| * SpeedEvil owns a n900 and 3310. | 22:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | gta03 even | 22:49 |
| alterego | ~legacy | 22:49 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, legacy is industry-ese for "crappy old stuff that we hate and that's why we upgraded in the first place but we can't seem to rid of at all and so now we have to support both (the incomprehensible new stuff *and* the crappy old stuff)." --Mark Minasi | 22:49 |
| alterego | Hahahah | 22:49 |
| alterego | That is quite fitting .. | 22:49 |
| hiemanshu | "The N9 - Walking tall" :P | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now I misread that as "dead man walking" | 22:51 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: its the same :P | 22:51 |
| hiemanshu | more like "The Dead Man - Walking tall" :P | 22:52 |
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| alterego | I think I can see now, how Twitter can quite easily become your life. | 22:53 |
| alterego | It's not as intrusive as facebook. | 22:53 |
| alterego | But it's even more social, I guess, in some ways. | 22:53 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, probably because you mostly follow people you don't know IRL, but you don't add people you don't know on fb | 23:05 |
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| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: SnapGo sounds good if the suite is oriented towards TAKING the pictures, PhotoGo seems more like the overall process | 23:40 |
| rm_work | GoDark -- A Complete Darkroom on the Go"? | 23:40 |
| rm_work | lol | 23:41 |
| alterego | Hah | 23:42 |
| alterego | I like DarkRoom | 23:42 |
| alterego | Drop the Go .. | 23:42 |
| rm_work | lol | 23:42 |
| rm_work | well, DarkRoom is just.... darkroom | 23:42 |
| rm_work | not exactly creative | 23:42 |
| alterego | Don't want get into a bloody MeeGo naming convention cascade. | 23:42 |
| rm_work | then again neither is slapping "Go" on the end of every MeeGo package | 23:42 |
| rm_work | lol yeah | 23:42 |
| alterego | Exactly :P | 23:42 |
| alterego | DorkRoom would be better | 23:42 |
| rm_work | like the "Maemo-Barcode" issue | 23:42 |
| alterego | But they'd probably think it was an e comic reader | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | It's as bad as (qt|cute|q|)* | 23:43 |
| rm_work | lol | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | WTF as a user would I care what toolkit the app is made with you idiot. | 23:43 |
| rm_work | first time I heard Qt pronounced as "Cute" was when i was staying with jott in Berlin :P | 23:43 |
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| rm_work | i'd apparently been saying it wrong for like four years | 23:44 |
| alterego | Heh | 23:44 |
| rm_work | always just said "Q. T." | 23:44 |
| alterego | It is a common mistake | 23:44 |
| alterego | cutie? you mean :P | 23:45 |
| rm_work | i know almost no one in the US who pronounces it "Cute" | 23:45 |
| rm_work | i think maybe it's only really known that way in europe? :P | 23:45 |
| rm_work | or else i just have a very limited social circle | 23:45 |
| alterego | Yeah, but you even pronounce "Nokia" wrong .. | 23:45 |
| rm_work | lol truth | 23:45 |
| rm_work | which one is right again? | 23:45 |
| rm_work | noKIA, or NOkia? | 23:45 |
| alterego | NOkia | 23:45 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: alterego: The meego.com programme should get confirmation by 1st July ;-) | 23:46 |
| alterego | Jaffa: thanks :) | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | Knock-ear | 23:46 |
| alterego | Jaffa: I'd heard the same anyway | 23:46 |
| rm_work | and is it "KNOW-kia" or "KNOCK-ia"? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: thanks | 23:46 |
| alterego | rm_work: what Jaffa said, I'm rubbish at phonetics :P | 23:46 |
| rm_work | lol | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | Not, "Noh key a" | 23:46 |
| rm_work | ear? | 23:46 |
| rm_work | lol | 23:46 |
| alterego | eeeaaarrrr | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | rm_work: Well, 'ia' | 23:46 |
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| Jaffa | As in Kia cars | 23:47 |
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| rm_work | now you're a southerner in the US | 23:47 |
| rm_work | Nokier | 23:47 |
| alterego | nok ia | 23:47 |
| alterego | not no kia | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | rm_work: Yes, that's it. Knockier. As in more knocky than the others. | 23:47 |
| rm_work | :P | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | funny enough in german knock-ear makes me answer "good night Jaffa !" | 23:47 |
| rm_work | imagine a southern drawl | 23:47 |
| alterego | Hah | 23:47 |
| rm_work | from a redneck | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | Where knocky rhymes with cocky | 23:47 |
| alterego | Guten Noch ia | 23:47 |
| rm_work | ah yeah | 23:48 |
| alterego | Rockia | 23:48 |
| rm_work | Noch or Nach? | 23:48 |
| * alterego trademarks | 23:48 | |
| rm_work | lol | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | "ich hau mich dann ma auf's Ohr" | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | colloq: hit the sack | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | knock ear | 23:48 |
| MoonTiger | anybody can give some advice on making a QMaemo5ValueButton / QMaemo5ListPickSelector / QStandardItemModel work? it all seems to work except no data shows up in the list when activated :| | 23:49 |
| rm_work | in that sentence i manage to only know "ich mich dann auf's Ohr" T_T | 23:50 |
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| rm_work | this is right? http://inogolo.com/audio/Nokia_5361.mp3 | 23:52 |
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| rm_work | still sounds like he's saying "No Kia" which jaffa said was wrong? | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hau -> knock | 23:52 |
| rm_work | what's "ma"? flavor? | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | einmal, ""filler"" | 23:53 |
| rm_work | yeah | 23:53 |
| rm_work | flavor/filler | 23:53 |
| rm_work | learning that one was interesting | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | rm_work: Who's that? | 23:54 |
| rm_work | our teacher was having a hard time explaining how we know when we're supposed to use it :P | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | why waste lines of channel logs when you're gonna be deciding how to spell Microsoft soon :p | 23:54 |
| rm_work | Jaffa: no idea, googled for it | 23:54 |
| rm_work | rofl Mo | 23:54 |
| rm_work | *rofl MohammadAG | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "I gonna knock my ear" | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | knock ear means go to bed? | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 23:55 |
| MohammadAG | DIE Microsoft devices means the microsoft devices | 23:55 |
| MohammadAG | pfft, bad things are good in german | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | or "listen to the mattress" | 23:55 |
| * MohammadAG ponders making a finger friendly car UI | 23:56 | |
| MohammadAG | something to control the mediaplayer, FM transmitter, wifi, 3G etc | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | maybe with 6 favorite contacts | 23:56 |
| rcg1 | MohammadAG: just a question.. how much time do you invest daily (average) on development stuff like for maemo, meego and the like? | 23:57 |
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| MohammadAG | rcg1, depends on the day | 23:57 |
| MohammadAG | if I'm home, it's that | 23:58 |
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| MohammadAG | when I'm out, you don't see me anywhere :P | 23:58 |
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| rcg1 | well a rough average would do.. lets say if you take your "common" week into account what average would that make for the day | 23:58 |
| rcg1 | ? | 23:58 |
| rcg1 | hehe.. good to hear | 23:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: mad useful, brilliant idea | 23:59 |
| MohammadAG | rcg1, plus #maemo wasn't always about giving, I learned quite a lot here | 23:59 |
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