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| X-Fade | monoid: they won't have many anyway. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| lcuk | monoid, I have enjoyed your reviews | 00:01 |
| lcuk | what are you going to do with your device when you get it? | 00:01 |
| monoid | can you get me one? :) | 00:03 |
| lcuk | monoid, answer my question. | 00:04 |
| lcuk | :) | 00:04 |
| javispedro | he will review it. | 00:04 |
| monoid | i can port some games | 00:04 |
| lcuk | nokia note, please include a splash cover for monoid | 00:04 |
| monoid | well compile them | 00:04 |
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| monoid | is there open-source face recognition i wonder | 00:04 |
| lcuk | monoid, you can do that now with the virtual sdk thingie | 00:05 |
| lcuk | i mean really, do you currently have a similar device? | 00:05 |
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| lcuk | and what makes this nokia n9 better than it | 00:05 |
| monoid | oh n950 is a faster n900 with more memory | 00:06 |
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| monoid | http://sourceforge.net/projects/malic/ open source face recognition | 00:06 |
| monoid | it would be fun if the device only worked for a recognized owner :) | 00:06 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: n950 usb port: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/nokia-9509.jpg | 00:06 |
| lcuk | do you have n900 now? | 00:06 |
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| lcuk | monoid, indeed it would | 00:06 |
| lcuk | in part I have examined suchtechnologies | 00:06 |
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| lcuk | there is a university project in Manchester for facial verification | 00:07 |
| lcuk | and I have some recognition stuff on n900 (not facial though) | 00:07 |
| monoid | i have a broken n900 | 00:07 |
| monoid | looking at buying one used from amazon.co.uk | 00:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: iris | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | http://projectiris.co.uk/ | 00:08 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, camera focus issues | 00:08 |
| lcuk | ;) | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Though enabling flash would be bad | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: not really | 00:08 |
| lcuk | yes for the facial low res camera | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean the other | 00:08 |
| lcuk | the other is not user friendly | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Meh | 00:09 |
| lcuk | lifting a phone up and it recognising owner is a realistically nice feature | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Facial recognition is hard to spoof. | 00:09 |
| lcuk | who is talking about spoofing? | 00:09 |
| hno | photocopy | 00:10 |
| lcuk | and not really | 00:10 |
| lcuk | at MeeGo conf 2010 Dublin | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Iris is quite hard - you can even detect if someones pulled your eye out, and is attmepting to auth with it, because of the lack of a pulse. | 00:10 |
| lcuk | I got past the windows 7 facial recogition login | 00:10 |
| lcuk | hopbeat had configured his | 00:10 |
| lcuk | I took a photo of it | 00:10 |
| lcuk | of him | 00:10 |
| lcuk | and showed that to the computer to login | 00:10 |
| lcuk | n900 is awesome. | 00:10 |
| javispedro | there is no win7 facial recognition | 00:10 |
| javispedro | it must have been lenovo's | 00:11 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: pong | 00:11 |
| javispedro | which was probably developed by some $3 contractor in under half an hour | 00:11 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: i'm high latency today | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, did you apply for the N950 program? | 00:11 |
| javispedro | poor contractor =) | 00:11 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: yes | 00:11 |
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| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: under MeeGo.org's program | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, OK, 'cause I used you in my application. :P | 00:12 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: lol | 00:12 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: well i hope we BOTH get in then | 00:12 |
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| rm_work | we'll be... a team :) | 00:12 |
| javispedro | do not worry, they'll send one n950 to all of us | 00:12 |
| javispedro | _TO SHARE_ | 00:12 |
| rm_work | lolololol | 00:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Used fiferboy, too. | 00:13 |
| lcuk | see javispedro | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Need to think up a team project. | 00:13 |
| lcuk | facial recognition would be needed. | 00:13 |
| rm_work | I would totally work on a team project | 00:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Liar | 00:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're a lone wolf. | 00:14 |
| flat` | :D | 00:14 |
| javispedro | maybe Nokia wants to remove this lone cowboy coder concept | 00:14 |
| javispedro | by forcing all of us to share that single n950 | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 00:15 |
| lcuk | why do you think it took so long to develop it :P | 00:15 |
| * javispedro remebers the days I had to send small test apps to lcuk =) | 00:16 | |
| lcuk | the entire nokia development took place on one single n950 prototype | 00:16 |
| lcuk | javispedro people still send me test apps ;) | 00:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | That thing must be beat. | 00:16 |
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| javispedro | that is the cardboard one | 00:17 |
| cehteh | be realistic ... they only bringing the n9 to market to fulfil contracts and obligations they made with intel and want to get a few R&D expenses back .. as soon they reached their goal they'll drop it | 00:17 |
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| javispedro | cehteh: with the n900 there was no contract nor obligations and they'll also dropped it as soon as it entered the market | 00:18 |
| javispedro | so, no news here :) | 00:18 |
| cehteh | yes | 00:20 |
| cehteh | i just mean for the n9 they will drop it even soon and they even advertized that | 00:20 |
| cehteh | and now they have contracts and obligations with M$ | 00:21 |
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| MoonTiger | wow qtcreator is a real clunk | 00:21 |
| GNUtoo | hi I guess we have no real knowledge on n9 yet | 00:22 |
| cehteh | we can make a lottery who will be the next smartphone vendor trying an open concept :P | 00:22 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: they're released N770 and N800 and then N810 and N900 | 00:22 |
| GNUtoo | for instance what will be proprietary, if the modem is phonet etc.... | 00:22 |
| GNUtoo | since the device is not out yet | 00:22 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: so it's not like they are dropping it completly | 00:23 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: they are treating it like any other phone | 00:23 |
| cehteh | time will tell | 00:23 |
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| Shapeshifter | >.> | 00:25 |
| Shapeshifter | so do people at nokia bascially do what they want? | 00:25 |
| Shapeshifter | why do they bother to make nice pictures of the N950 if it's fabled to be dead. | 00:25 |
| MoonTiger | jeez really what a pile of crap qt creator is | 00:25 |
| * MoonTiger uninstalls it | 00:26 | |
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| GNUtoo | btw did someone already combine the n900 maemo power kenrel with uboot? | 00:27 |
| GNUtoo | to load another distro like meego or other(debian,shr etc...) | 00:27 |
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| monoid | there is multiboot available | 00:31 |
| javispedro | lol, the noteslate twitter feed went crazy | 00:32 |
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| GNUtoo | multiboot can boot other kernels? | 00:32 |
| GNUtoo | like a 2.6.37 kernel? | 00:33 |
| javispedro | yes | 00:33 |
| GNUtoo | how does it work? | 00:34 |
| javispedro | it can boot linux 3.0 too | 00:34 |
| * GNUtoo is confused with all the maemo boot features and knows only: | 00:34 | |
| GNUtoo | *kexecboot | 00:34 |
| GNUtoo | *uboot that is chainloaded | 00:34 |
| GNUtoo | *flashing the zImage directly | 00:35 |
| javispedro | which is what multiboot does. | 00:35 |
| GNUtoo | ah ok | 00:35 |
| GNUtoo | each kenrel flash another zImage | 00:35 |
| GNUtoo | and reboots | 00:35 |
| GNUtoo | ok | 00:35 |
| GNUtoo | not usable for us so | 00:35 |
| GNUtoo | since we're another distro | 00:36 |
| GNUtoo | we would need 0xFFFF onboard | 00:36 |
| GNUtoo | and to use mtd-utils etc... | 00:36 |
| GNUtoo | so to re-implement multiboot | 00:36 |
| monoid | hm | 00:36 |
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| GNUtoo | I'll try to fix uboot for the power kernel | 00:37 |
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| * GeneralAntilles just made the mistake of opening rcadden's twitter stream. | 00:50 | |
| anidel | :) | 00:52 |
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| javispedro | who is that guy | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some dumbass that's been blogging about Nokia and Maemo for years. | 00:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | One of those armchair analyst types. | 00:54 |
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| javispedro | in my age we called them j. random blogger | 00:54 |
| javispedro | ;P | 00:54 |
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| javispedro | man, I need some mobile pen-input capturing and I need it now. | 00:55 |
| javispedro | notescape my patience is running oooout, and the friggin dot paper pen is looking better every day | 00:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 00:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a pretty slick little gadget. | 00:56 |
| javispedro | it's the 8th time I forget about my notepad this week | 00:56 |
| javispedro | s/about// | 00:56 |
| Guest36683 | javispedro meant: it's the 8th time I forget my notepad this week | 00:56 |
| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, Ricky Cadden I'd guess? | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah. | 00:57 |
| javispedro | so I would _die_ for something to store notes on a pc I can sync with n900 | 00:57 |
| * MohammadAG remembers the Symbian days | 00:57 | |
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| javispedro | bah you ex-symbian fanboys | 00:58 |
| javispedro | palmos was the better one | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | NEWTON! | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, not my fault the N800 wasn't marketed enough | 00:59 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: apple banishes you from the cult for mentioning that. you can no longer buy a macbook. | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | actually I knew about the N800, just not that it was linux | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | thought it was J2ME or something :p | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shoot, I just bought a Lenovo. | 01:00 |
| javispedro | you DID WHAT | 01:00 |
| javispedro | are you frigging crazy | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | (which doesn't want to run OS X happily) | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | x220 | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | A little | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Slick laptop, though. | 01:00 |
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| javispedro | sadly, since the ideapad started being the center of my jokes about awfully poor built quality, my opinion of lenovo has fallen significantly | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | IdeaPad's seem terrible. | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | ThinkPads still seem mostly up to snuff. | 01:02 |
| FIQ | (23:59:13) (GeneralAntilles) NEWTON! | 01:03 |
| FIQ | ahead of it's time | 01:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 01:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm still impressed by it. | 01:03 |
| FIQ | so was I when I heard about it for the first time | 01:03 |
| * MohammadAG doesn't get why reviewers are getting a developer device | 01:04 | |
| monoid | nice choice GeneralAntilles | 01:04 |
| monoid | what display does it have | 01:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I still think that's where tablets should be | 01:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | instead of iPad crap | 01:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | monoid, IPS | 01:04 |
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| monoid | whoever is paying you too much should hire me | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | 12.5 1366x768 | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Got it on a 25% off sale. | 01:05 |
| monoid | is it the tablet version? | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | why review a device when it's not going to be sold... | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nah | 01:05 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: so that you don't get one | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | what device are we talking about? | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tablet laptops don't do much for me | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's also much heavier, larger and expensive | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lenovo x220. | 01:05 |
| monoid | fun for sketching | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, no really, there's no point | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | I would love a tablet that DOESN'T run Android | 01:06 |
| monoid | has mypaint gotten faster? | 01:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | monoid, true. | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | Sc0rpius, iPad | 01:06 |
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| * MohammadAG runs | 01:06 | |
| Sc0rpius | actually I should try to put Linux on my tablet | 01:06 |
| monoid | you can run angstrom on the archos gen8 Sc0rpius | 01:06 |
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| * Sc0rpius shoots MohammadAG | 01:06 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I will miss sketching on the N9. | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | Apple doesn't exist in my world | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't even TOUCH things Apple | 01:06 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: you had an n9? | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | sometimes people hand me their iPods "please take it for a second" and I say "I won't touch it" | 01:07 |
| Macer | Sc0rpius: nothing wrong with apple stuff | 01:07 |
| monoid | GeneralAntilles: how many bogomips does your x220 report? | 01:07 |
| GAN900 | Macer, no. | 01:07 |
| GAN900 | monoid, dunno. | 01:07 |
| GAN900 | Got the i7 | 01:07 |
| Macer | i personally wouldn't buy it. but i don't think it is bad. | 01:07 |
| Sc0rpius | I hate everything Apple though | 01:07 |
| Sc0rpius | I loved the Apple ][c... until I had a C64 | 01:08 |
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| Macer | i think it is a bit overpriced for what is inside it | 01:08 |
| Sc0rpius | that's the last thing Apple did right. | 01:08 |
| Macer | no way | 01:08 |
| Macer | G5 :) | 01:08 |
| Macer | once they went intel they lost their appeal | 01:08 |
| Sc0rpius | actually | 01:08 |
| Macer | i could justify buying one with a ppc in it | 01:08 |
| nox- | yeah the apple //c i guess even still came with schematics, and now you have to `jailbreak' their stuff... :/ | 01:09 |
| monoid | now our phones are 1000x the speed of the apple ii | 01:09 |
| monoid | remember Auto Duel ? | 01:09 |
| Macer | i wish apple swapped over to ibm cpus | 01:10 |
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| Macer | i would buy something like a quad core ibm power cpu based apple | 01:10 |
| cehteh | when i buyed an apple newton, it was discontinued (because of M$...) | 01:13 |
| Sc0rpius | our phones can run several Apple IIc emulators actually | 01:13 |
| cehteh | when i buyed a nokia n900 ... | 01:13 |
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| Macer | bought | 01:15 |
| Macer | not buyed :) | 01:15 |
| Macer | newtons were pretty good | 01:16 |
| Macer | a bit ahead of their time | 01:16 |
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| Macer | but i think newtons weren't made by apple. just the os | 01:16 |
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| monoid | Macer: did you have one? | 01:22 |
| monoid | i wonder if there's anything that could be revived from the newton OS, ui whatevr | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I touched a Newton once. | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I was all - 'I am 12, what is this'. | 01:23 |
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| javispedro | For once I actually agree with wikipedia deletionists, and they even find resistance | 01:24 |
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| monoid | that was random javispedro | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: In what context? | 01:25 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: the 4chan joke taken too far, aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_sort | 01:25 |
| monoid | am 12, what is this'. | 01:26 |
| monoid | that was odd | 01:26 |
| javispedro | monoid: do I know you? from tmo? | 01:26 |
| * SpeedEvil just woke up. | 01:26 | |
| monoid | i don't think so | 01:27 |
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| monoid | ah you did snes port | 01:28 |
| * SpeedEvil idly wonders what the weight of the n950 is. | 01:28 | |
| GNUtoo | hmmm | 01:28 |
| GNUtoo | monoid, I tried creating a boot image for /dev/mtd3 and I failed: | 01:29 |
| GNUtoo | if I extract an image I get: | 01:29 |
| GNUtoo | 00000000 4e 4f 4c 4f 21 69 6d 67 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |NOLO!img........| | 01:29 |
| GNUtoo | which I bet is different from a fiasco image | 01:30 |
| GNUtoo | right? | 01:30 |
| monoid | who knows bootloaders? not me | 01:30 |
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| GNUtoo | ok | 01:31 |
| GNUtoo | I remember that jacekowski does | 01:31 |
| GNUtoo | hi jacekowski | 01:31 |
| Sc0rpius | Jesus Christ and I took the time to read that stupid Sleep Sort algorithm | 01:31 |
| Sc0rpius | and I was like "WTF" | 01:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | bogosort is clearly better. | 01:32 |
| Sc0rpius | haha please | 01:32 |
| Sc0rpius | I want to see people using that Sleep Sort trying to sort a list of numbers in the million range | 01:32 |
| javispedro | Sc0rpius: you are falling into their trap | 01:32 |
| javispedro | then they tell you that you could make sleep sort divide the integers by a few magnitudes | 01:33 |
| Sc0rpius | yea but at least it cracked me a laugh when I read the sleep($1) line | 01:33 |
| Sc0rpius | :) | 01:33 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah they could say that | 01:33 |
| javispedro | and blablablabla ... and eventually you realize you are just wrapping the linux timer_add function which implements... a distribution sort. | 01:34 |
| Sc0rpius | actually and this is very much falling into their trap | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | it doesn't really work | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | let's say the numbers are very very very big but close to each other | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | then they will divide the integers by magnitudes like you say | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | but then the sleep function doesn't start at the same time for the whole list, since it's inside a loop (a for() ) | 01:36 |
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| Sc0rpius | if the numbers are extremely big and extremely closer to each other maybe you won't get an ordered list | 01:36 |
| Sc0rpius | it doesn't work in quantum physics lists :) | 01:36 |
| Sc0rpius | and I fell into the trap :S | 01:37 |
| javispedro | whoa, look at the clock | 01:38 |
| javispedro | sleep() | 01:38 |
| javispedro | cya | 01:38 |
| * Sc0rpius waves back | 01:38 | |
| GNUtoo | never mind I found the specs on 0xFFFF website | 01:38 |
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| MohammadAG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtA_k8W-vZU&feature=player_detailpage#t=408s lulz | 01:53 |
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| Choom | no purple :( | 02:22 |
| Choom | I WANT A PURPLE PHONE!!! | 02:23 |
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| GAN900 | Wish it also came in yellow. | 02:23 |
| GAN900 | As a tweet I saw today said: then they'd have CYMK | 02:24 |
| cehteh | transparent for the geeks :P | 02:24 |
| Choom | cehteh: that would be awesome | 02:25 |
| cehteh | (and then you can chose between green, beige or purple pcb :P) | 02:26 |
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| GAN900 | Purple PCBs are the best. | 02:29 |
| GAN900 | But I think the deep grayish blue Apple tends to use is the classiest. | 02:29 |
| cehteh | .o(transparent pcb!) | 02:30 |
| cehteh | that would look awesome with multi layer boards | 02:30 |
| monoid | Choom: you can get a purple n97 mini, i think | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | random - are the BT speakers out yet? | 02:36 |
| Choom | I can barely wait for this phone to come out | 02:36 |
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| Choom | I do, however, wonder whether the battery is removable | 02:37 |
| Choom | considering what they said about the way they assemble them | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | http://thenokiablog.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n9-sweden-3/ | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | We now have a solid release date for the Nokia N9 in Sweden. A press release from 3 announced the MeeGo device will be available for sale September 23rd this year. | 02:38 |
| Choom | interesting | 02:38 |
| Choom | just a few weeks after the iphone 5 | 02:38 |
| Choom | wish it came out sooner though | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not sure I see the need for all four edges to swipe | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | It'd be nice to be able to unbind some | 02:41 |
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| wmarone_ | I hope they release it more than just Sweden :) | 02:46 |
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| FireFly | Sweden release is fine with me | 02:52 |
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| Choom | since it doesn't come with a keyboard or FM transmitter I don't really care where it gets released | 03:08 |
| Choom | region-specific hardware sucks | 03:09 |
| Choom | I'm sure the swedes would be as eager to accept my money as anyone else would | 03:10 |
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| MohammadAG | Choom, don't spread things unless they're true | 03:13 |
| MohammadAG | it has an FMTX afaik | 03:13 |
| MohammadAG | <SpeedEvil> It'd be nice to be able to unbind some | 03:13 |
| MohammadAG | it's possible to disable the swipe | 03:13 |
| MohammadAG | which is nice, but worrying | 03:13 |
| MohammadAG | I'm guessing the screen wake up is through the accelerometer's tap feature? | 03:14 |
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| Choom | MohammadAG: well it was not (or at least I didn't notice it) in the specifications that I read yesterday | 03:20 |
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| Choom | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/ | 03:21 |
| Choom | did I miss something there? | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | capacitive screen | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Though if the accel is similar to the one in the n900, it supports doubletap | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | It can detect taps in hardware | 03:22 |
| Choom | doesn't seem to have an FM receiver either | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Pity. | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab/specifications | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - no FM. | 03:26 |
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| pigeon | anyone using extmou? somehow i don't get the cursor when i have a mouse connected | 04:46 |
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| pigeon | ah, /opt/usr/share/icons/default/cursors.extmou isn't there for some reasons | 04:54 |
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| xd13 | is it me or does the n9 not have 4g ? | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who cares? | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | pentaband 3g | 05:19 |
| xd13 | n950 better have 4g | 05:24 |
| xd13 | i'm still on tmobiles unlimited plan :) i want to take advantage | 05:25 |
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| kthomas_vh | hhe | 05:29 |
| kthomas_vh | *heh | 05:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | xd13, it wont. :) | 05:32 |
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| xd13 | :( | 05:32 |
| xd13 | i wonder y | 05:33 |
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| xd13 | i'm still going to get n950 when it hits, the speed though is somewhat of a big disappointment | 05:34 |
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| xd13 | a lot of my friends have androids and their speed is clearly killing my n900 right now | 05:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Because it's mostly pointless. | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | N950 isn't "hitting" | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a devkit | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not for sale. | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | N9 is likely due around September. | 05:37 |
| xd13 | huh? they r never going to sell n950 to users ? | 05:38 |
| xd13 | i know they never announced the n950 but that does not mean they won't | 05:40 |
| krayon | xd13: From what I understand they only have the limited number they produced of them (in the hundreds?) | 05:41 |
| krayon | That's what was said in here anyway :P | 05:42 |
| krayon | One can only hope devs will get bored and sell them to little people like us. | 05:42 |
| xd13 | i hope nokia changes their mind and sells the n950 to customers. Is this going to be the only meego phone ? is nokia going permanentley windows 8 after this ? | 05:45 |
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| krayon | xd13: The only way is if all of them weren't consumed by developers I guess, which is unlikely :/ | 05:55 |
| krayon | xd13: I'd say Nokia are fairly commited to MS in the medium-term. | 05:56 |
| krayon | And with the ex-MS guy in charge, it'll probably stay that way :P | 05:56 |
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| xd13 | lol | 05:57 |
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| xd13 | all i know is n9 is looking mighty attractive to me | 05:58 |
| xd13 | plus having 64gb i can put all my music on there | 05:58 |
| xd13 | what i can't seem to find a picture of is texting with the phone in landscape orientation texting window | 06:00 |
| ds3 | is the type and size of screen on the N9 known? | 06:01 |
| xd13 | ya | 06:02 |
| xd13 | u can google that up | 06:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | xd13, you're way behind the times. | 06:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://swipe.nokia.com | 06:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | N950 has been announced | 06:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | as a limited-production developer kit | 06:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | N9 has also been announced. | 06:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ds3, 3.9-inch OLED | 06:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | 854x480 or so. | 06:08 |
| xd13 | general have u seen any landscape mode pics ? because i can't find any | 06:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | They don't seem to wan to show much landscape. | 06:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.meego.com/Maliit | 06:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is what's being used. | 06:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it may be something like that. | 06:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | ACtually | 06:09 |
| * GeneralAntilles checks UX guidelines | 06:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Text_Input.html | 06:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | No landscape mention there. | 06:10 |
| ds3 | GA: Hmmmmm wonder how well does the OLED perform outdoors | 06:10 |
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| ds3 | the N900 screen does okay in sunlight | 06:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Nokians seem to think it does OK. | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | We discussed it with frals earlier and he said he hasn't had any problems. | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | (in Finland) | 06:11 |
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| xd13 | good thing is i have a few months to get some $ together | 06:13 |
| ds3 | is this the dark period or the light period in fi? | 06:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Light | 06:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Summer | 06:13 |
| ds3 | has anyone compared battery life? | 06:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Supposedly much improved. | 06:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OMAP3630, plus bigger battery, plus OLED seems likely to help. | 06:15 |
| krayon | ds3: Non-removable batter :( | 06:15 |
| ds3 | same or better camera? | 06:15 |
| ds3 | krayon: oh? :( | 06:15 |
| krayon | s/batter/battery/ | 06:16 |
| infobot | krayon meant: ds3: Non-removable battery :( | 06:16 |
| ds3 | and the radio is still GSM with the TMO 3G band ? | 06:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | The battery is supposed to be moderately easily replacable. | 06:18 |
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| xd13 | ya i didn't understand y either | 06:19 |
| xd13 | all the new phones r 4g | 06:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Much better camera. | 06:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Supposedly the fastest camera out there. | 06:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Under 3 seconds from activation to first shot. | 06:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, pentaband 3g | 06:21 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 06:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | There isn't a good reason why the n900 can't do that. | 06:21 |
| SpeedEvil | (the cam anyway) | 06:21 |
| ds3 | Hmmmm looks tolerable | 06:21 |
| ds3 | but it is capacitive right? | 06:21 |
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| krayon | ds3: :( probably. | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 06:22 |
| ds3 | always 1 drawback in each new model! | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Evidently a pretty good quality one, though. | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, one step forward, two steps back. | 06:23 |
| ds3 | well, I have yet to see a cap touch that I can use to sign a PDF file | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | When they do the initial planning meetings they figure out which features they're going to change or remove to make it shittier. | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 06:23 |
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| ds3 | give me the N800 size display with sunlight readability and the same number of buttons | 06:23 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders selling modded n900s with other screens. | 06:24 | |
| ds3 | you got a source for screens that fit the N900 case? | 06:24 |
| SpeedEvil | It'd be lovely to be able to buy the boards. | 06:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: no | 06:24 |
| ds3 | oh :P | 06:24 |
| SpeedEvil | You almost can't do a bigger screen in the existing case. | 06:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It'd need to be a custom one. | 06:25 |
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| ds3 | even if I do a custom case, I don't think they expose the signals for a lot of LCDs | 06:25 |
| ds3 | btw, is the N9 going to add a compass? | 06:25 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 06:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: they don't - you'd need to find a compatible LCD - which is not completely impossible | 06:26 |
| ds3 | that might be enough reason to get it; assuming Meego isn't completely f'ed | 06:26 |
| * SpeedEvil found a magnetometer which may make it possible to make a compass microSD | 06:27 | |
| ds3 | SpeedEvil: aren't they DSI screens? | 06:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 06:27 |
| ds3 | the LCDs on there are not parallel (DPI) but serial, right? | 06:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Essentially most modern LCDs are. | 06:27 |
| ds3 | no | 06:28 |
| ds3 | LVDS is not DSI | 06:28 |
| SpeedEvil | DSI is sort of LVDS | 06:29 |
| ds3 | except DSI is direct from the OMAP whereas LVDS requires a transmitter, AFAIK | 06:29 |
| SpeedEvil | there are some screens out there. | 06:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | LVDS is a low-level standard. There are screens - most screens nowadays - that connect over it in a standardish way - this is called LVDS - it's really not. | 06:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~moo | 06:31 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 06:31 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's LVDS in the same way that it's correct to call a container of milk a gallon jug. | 06:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Without specifying that it's milk in it. | 06:31 |
| SpeedEvil | PCIe is LVDS too | 06:32 |
| SpeedEvil | (maybe) | 06:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | or calling those testpads RS232 | 06:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Or calling posters on TMO retards. | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | while they are often 1.8V | 06:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bleh | 06:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | They still don't have a complete English translation for N900CE | 06:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess they stil have that tana_fi_foobar abomination | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. no proper compiled-in textstrings for LANG=C | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | the rationale for which is really unheard: The *translators* don't manage to get their texts right otherwise | 06:44 |
| SpeedEvil | umm - what has locale got to do with translators? | 06:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I heard of several ways to deal with the problem: prefixes like in "[E:4154] File not found" is one, Qt-linquist has the concept of context qualifiers and even comments in source. But never I seen something as awkward as "Homescreen" -> "tana_fi_thumb_home_btn" | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I guess the translators don't have the software to test their translations live, but only screenshots at best. Now if there are several "file not found" msgs that maybe need different translations depending on application context ("can not read config" vs "Project file not found"), then obviously the only solution they could come up with is to have unique crappy strings like "tana_fi_thumb_home_btn" in source/program, so the | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | screenshots have unique references to which text tupel is the one the translator needs to edit for this one | 06:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above even a dead simple "Home [9634]" would be better than that, as it doesn't kill users that have no proper locale (set) | 06:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then add //%translatorhint% [9634] button, small, english text "home", fontsize foo, semantics blah | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | to source | 06:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | grep '%translatorhint%'|sort>translators_auxiliary_docs.txt | 06:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or simply look how it's done in qt-linguist, isn't Qt a Nokia thing anyway in the end? | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: though I just start to wonder what it's been you're telling us. N900CE sounds like meego-arm(proper) | 07:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hmm? | 07:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which language do they use other than plain english? I can't imagine meego adopted that idiocy with tana_fi_* | 07:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't claim to have anything but en_GB installed. | 07:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ([2011-06-23 05:35:18] <GeneralAntilles> They still don't have a complete English translation for N900CE) please elaborate - and bear with me, coffee still about to take effect :-) | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | what else do they have then, when no proper english "translation"? | 07:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: was your comment just about en_GB vs en_EN (or whatever)? | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just the lack of complete strings for N900 CE | 07:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | example? | 07:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems like that would be something relatively easy to fix. | 07:11 |
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| * DocScrutinizer starts to wonder if the ""problems with CE cert"" that kontorri(?) said was responsible for N950 sales blocker actually meant "problems with Consumer Edition firmware QA and finalizing" | 07:14 | |
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| * kirma reads about harmattan device security policy. wondering if "The device owners define the device policy based on their needs and goals" means that on unlocked, non-developer mode devices, users can really install software sources easily, with credentials for *any* resource any practical application or service could need | 07:47 | |
| kirma | as far as those don't put MSSF or hardware itself at risk | 07:47 |
| kirma | because if that's not possible, it's that S60/MIDP application signing hell once again... | 07:48 |
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| kirma | if user decides to trust ACME Inc as software source, he should be allowed to do so | 07:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kirma: seems harmattan security framework has purged DRM part, so possibly the hell is some steps ahead yet | 07:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless in visinity | 07:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~spell visinity | 07:58 |
| infobot | possible spellings for visinity: vicinity disunity virginity vanity visit Vinita sanity vicinity's vising Vicente visiting | 07:58 |
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| kirma | DRM doesn't really bother me. content by *other* software vendors may be encrypted or limited in access in a way that my software can't access it. I'm just considered of the possibility that I couldn't set up my own software shop that could for instance implement some of the plugins without expensive application certifications... | 08:00 |
| kirma | just if user decides to trust my software source, I could do basically everything else except compromise MSSF itself, or, for instance, blow up the battery | 08:01 |
| kirma | also wondering what would be the best channel to ask this kind of questions regarding meego/harmattan | 08:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kirma: the problem with DRM is you must make sure no ripper or other rogue sw is running in parallel to your e.g. mediaplayer | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | so DRM is exactly what hits you as a small shopee selling your own sw | 08:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | either you get Nokia to sign your sw after QA and security evaluation, or it mustn't run in parallel to DRM protected sw on same system, concurrently | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no option for user to override this principle, as it's exactly the user that is considered rogue and has to get gontrolled by industry | 08:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/contr/contr/ | 08:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/gontr/contr/ | 08:13 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: there's no option for user to override this principle, as it's exactly the user that is considered rogue and has to get controlled by industry | 08:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | but, as mentioned above (thanks to Corsac for pointing me at the relevant email), it seems harmattan hasn't implemented DRM (yet?) | 08:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | so for the rest of aegis benefits (should I say "benefits"?) you might actually be allowed to have full user control over all such things like integrity check, resource allocation and granting, crypted data storage, etc pp | 08:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and yes, this might include sw-tokes for licence management of apps as well | 08:18 |
| kirma | well, I'm not interested in rippers. I might be interested on call recorders, or implementing various plugins for which API is provided, or, of course, applications that access for instance address book and location data | 08:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: it's irrelevant in what you're interested | 08:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as the devels of acme-mediaplayer don't know for sure if your app is rogue or not | 08:19 |
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| kirma | I'm not exactly certain if we are talking of the same thing | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what QA and cert at Nokia/$random-appstore is meant for - they guarantee that all signed apps are behaving, in sense of DRM | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: believe me, we are talking about same thing | 08:21 |
| kirma | but what I'd want to see is concrete description of harmattan security policy in practice - what kind of software sources developers can create without certification by someone related to nokia, and what credentials such sources may grant (or, put the other way, which they *can't* grant) | 08:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as mentioend above, since the critical DRM part got dropped, it seems user has full control over that, so basically there should be no limit there about what can or can not be granted | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | or defined | 08:23 |
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| robbiethe1st | Hm... I always like to see DRM dropped, but in what? | 08:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: aegis, harmattan | 08:24 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh, good | 08:24 |
| kirma | OTOH, it's only good in my opinion for device security that files can be kept visible only to their owning applications and encrypted with proper chain of trust if wanted so | 08:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: sure | 08:25 |
| kirma | and that access to various resources can be strongly enforced... as long as developers accessing non-critical features don't require going through certification hell | 08:25 |
| ruskie | but that can be done differently anyway | 08:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thee are some concerns about this as well, regarding privacy, remote control over your property (data getting invalidated via online cert, see windows genuine) etc | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | but those concerns are minor, compared to big toad DRM | 08:26 |
| kirma | I got the idea that MSSF principles were based on reasonably consumer-friendly basis originally, but are the actual shipping devices also hacker-developer-deployment friendly | 08:27 |
| robbiethe1st | Isn't that sort of what the whole group/user model with Linux is supposed to do? | 08:27 |
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| kirma | because one thing that surely killed deployment of many MIDP and S60v3 applications were the capability limitations and the bureaucratic processes involved | 08:28 |
| robbiethe1st | Root can access everything; setup a user with specific access to certain files; any other user without permission can't access files that aren't chmodded the right way... | 08:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kirma: regarding cet hell for critical resources: I think each user is devel and each devel is user. Means there can't get any sane scheme installed that would e.g. forbid access to voltage regulators for apps without cert | 08:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe there is, first instance. Though users can circumvent it if they like | 08:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: basically yes | 08:29 |
| kirma | well, developers can put their *own* devices to developer mode... but, it should be possible to deploy applications that don't try excess things such as blow up the battery also on normal-mode devices (I hope!), without cert hell | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | aegis is basically useless without DRM | 08:30 |
| kirma | also, deploying such applications without IMEI bindings... | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | as all the other parts could have been implemented using existing methods | 08:30 |
| RST38h | Aegis is useful to tell people who absolutely want it that it is there | 08:31 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, kirma, that's what repos are for, like on the N900. | 08:31 |
| RST38h | Does not even have to do anything useful, just be there | 08:32 |
| robbiethe1st | You have extras for tested apps; and extras-testing / devel for potentially dangerous stuff | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: I don't think there's such thing like "developer mode" | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | except for the DRM related "open" mode | 08:32 |
| kirma | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/images/thumb/2/21/SecurityBoot.PNG/500px-SecurityBoot.PNG | 08:33 |
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| kirma | at http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/index.php?title=Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Harmattan_platform_and_Platform_SDK_overview/Security_domain_overview | 08:33 |
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| pabs3 | ugh sim lock | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Additionally, some Harmattan device distribution channels may require installation or blocking of certain applications or services without a possibility for users or applications to change these settings. ...<< that's DRM basically | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: that part is mere BS as SIMlock is handled inside modem, and user has no access to this domain whatsoever | 08:36 |
| kirma | well, nicely enough, our friend elop has now explicitly stated that n9 will be the last and only meego phone. great marketing, but his intents are pretty clear. | 08:37 |
| pabs3 | kirma: got link? | 08:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | SUCKER | 08:37 |
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| ruskie | kirma, where? | 08:38 |
| ruskie | hmm stskeeps left | 08:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Services, such as mobile payments and copyright protection, require a strong security support from the operating system. The security of these services is essential to their usage, which is why such enablers should be provided by MSSF<< also DRM | 08:39 |
| kirma | paper version of helsingin sanomat, interview of elop, supposedly | 08:40 |
| ruskie | wth is MSSF??? | 08:40 |
| GAN900 | What is Elop thinking? | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | so probably that mail Corsac pointed at, that stated harmattan is dropping DRM was only another fog bomb to brainwash devels | 08:40 |
| GAN900 | How the hell can you end this with one device. | 08:40 |
| ruskie | GAN900, what he always has been... how to ruin Nokia so that Microcrud can absorb it as a mobile division | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | mobile simple security framework | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: ^^^ | 08:40 |
| GAN900 | "Here's this awesome thing that even Engadget loves. But let's burn it down." | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | the true name of aegis | 08:41 |
| GAN900 | OK, so what is the BOARD thinking. . . . | 08:41 |
| kirma | well, elop wants to make certain that sales are miserable so that he can stagnate "long term" development of meego into oblivion, making nokia dependent on microsoft | 08:41 |
| ruskie | I'm more impressed that quite a few people @work are interested in a N9 | 08:41 |
| GAN900 | So, in summary, "Long term disruptions." is bs | 08:41 |
| kirma | then again, definition of a "phone" is slippery for nokia, and thus they can use weasel word excuses later if elop-sabotage fails | 08:42 |
| GAN900 | How much bs can one company spew out? | 08:42 |
| ruskie | GAN900, think Microsoft | 08:42 |
| kirma | I don't know the exact wording on the paper now | 08:42 |
| ruskie | I think infinite amount comes close to it | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: nice one | 08:43 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/uspto_rejects_oracle_android_claims/ | 08:43 |
| kirma | title is "Elop rules out return of Meego" | 08:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kirma: link! | 08:44 |
| kirma | the guy really is a trojan of microsoft | 08:44 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, [07:40:03] <kirma> paper version of helsingin sanomat, interview of elop, supposedly | 08:45 |
| kirma | it's in finnish, and requires subscription | 08:45 |
| ds3 | can Meego run Maemo binaries? | 08:45 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/australia_laws_fight_cybercrime/ | 08:45 |
| kirma | http://www.hs.fi/haku/?kaikkiSanat=elop+sulkee+pois+meegon+paluun | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: how's that link related? | 08:46 |
| ruskie | it isn't | 08:46 |
| ruskie | but it is interesting none-the-less | 08:46 |
| pabs3 | without a warrant, wtf | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma, is this a link to the article (-teaser)? | 08:47 |
| kirma | it's a link to article search, and from there you can, at least theoretically purchase the full interview article | 08:47 |
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| ruskie | copy paste to a pastebin? | 08:48 |
| GAN900 | Well, if the stock goes up more with release, I'm not sure how the board can ignore it. | 08:48 |
| ruskie | atleast the relevant parts | 08:48 |
| GAN900 | A lot of people in the US have already had experience with WinMob | 08:49 |
| GAN900 | they're not interested in more of it. | 08:49 |
| kirma | well, Elop obviously trusts that his disrespect for the platform makes operators and consumers avoid N9, and details of sales come at least one quarter late, just nicely for WP7 to take over | 08:49 |
| kirma | fate of nokia is not important to elop, it's just better that nokia is weak than self-supporting | 08:50 |
| kirma | it's incredible how anyone can let a guy with such self-sabotaging comments stay as CEO of a company | 08:51 |
| kirma | a comment like that costs millions, if not tens of millions, and apparently it's completely intentional... | 08:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: indeed, also shareholders will go mad about it. But seems Elop is not tangented by any of that | 08:52 |
| kirma | incredible attitude considering very positive feedback from the media, for once, for a nokia product | 08:53 |
| ruskie | yup | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems Nokia completely bent over and surrendered | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | we should send vaseline to the board | 08:55 |
| monoid | kirma: :( | 08:55 |
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| kirma | should see the real article, though. | 08:55 |
| kirma | it seems like elop is intentionally attacking back on positive feedback | 08:56 |
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| monoid | well i don't think many people in this channel appreciate his ideas | 08:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's so fsckng obvious it really hurts your eyes watching this (!self-)destruction | 08:57 |
| monoid | how about everyone in this channel leave to form a new linux phone company | 08:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | monoid: will still open a gap of several million on capital | 08:58 |
| wmarone_ | you will immediately be beset by software patent and hardware patent lawsuits | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | that as well | 08:58 |
| wmarone_ | they do not want new up-and-comers entering the market | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | chip manufs simply ignore you... | 08:59 |
| wmarone_ | and idiots will spam forums bitching about you lacking an ecosystem | 08:59 |
| kirma | http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&u=http://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite/Talous/1194684338547/artikkeli/elop%2Bhs%2Blle%2Bn9%2Bjaa%2Bainoaksi%2Bmeego-puhelimeksi%2Bmyyntimenestyksesta%2Briippumatta.html&ei=v9UCTqC6OYjvsga85tn1Cg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite/Talous/1194684338547/artikkeli/elop%252Bhs%252Blle%252Bn9%252Bjaa%252Bainoaksi%252Bmeego-puhelimeksi%252Bm | 08:59 |
| kirma | ah, nice link! | 08:59 |
| kirma | http://tinyurl.com/62fwkmw | 08:59 |
| * ruskie is grateful for kirma not posting a tinyurl first ;) | 09:00 | |
| kirma | not the original source, but at least outlines the content | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsckng google is slow like hell for me, since last day | 09:00 |
| ruskie | - I've talked a lot about how to increase people's sense of responsibility, empathy, listening to customers and each other and avoid being arrogant, Elop said. <-- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 09:01 |
| monoid | i usually have to censor my comments about that man | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | still loading | 09:01 |
| kirma | basically the headline says "Elop to Helsingin Sanomat: N9 to remain as the only Meego phone regardless of sales numbers" | 09:01 |
| GAN900 | ruskie, it's funny. | 09:01 |
| GAN900 | He's right. | 09:02 |
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| GAN900 | Arrogance is a big part of Nokia's problem | 09:02 |
| ruskie | and he kinda personifies it | 09:02 |
| GAN900 | But he's also a damn hypocrite | 09:02 |
| kirma | arrogance of elop | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | he exploits that | 09:02 |
| wmarone_ | I get it now | 09:02 |
| monoid | well there were problems before elop, like making maemo a 5-year chinese plan | 09:02 |
| wmarone_ | Elop did not arrive at Nokia to find a "burning platform" | 09:02 |
| wmarone_ | he came and found a messy platform, and promptly set it on fire | 09:03 |
| kirma | "only Meego phone even if it would be sales success" | 09:03 |
| GAN900 | monoid, right, the arrogance. | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF??!?! still loading | 09:03 |
| wmarone_ | then sat outside, like arsonists do | 09:03 |
| wmarone_ | "omg it's on fire" | 09:03 |
| kirma | what a moron with company interests can really make such statements | 09:03 |
| GAN900 | wmarone_, *facepalm+ | 09:03 |
| monoid | lol wmarone_ | 09:04 |
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| MikaT | wmarone_: haha :D | 09:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's depressing true | 09:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow 96% loaded | 09:05 |
| monoid | DocScrutinizer: it loaded very fast for me | 09:05 |
| GAN900 | Is it just me, or is the internet just getting slower? | 09:06 |
| GAN900 | Nothing loads quickly anymore | 09:06 |
| monoid | disable javascript? | 09:06 |
| GAN900 | There was a short time just after broadband became affordable when things were snappy. | 09:06 |
| GAN900 | Now it's all just slow | 09:06 |
| GAN900 | monoid, that's part of it, yeah. | 09:06 |
| wmarone_ | GAN900: I think it's Florida. The whole state is being throttled. | 09:06 |
| GAN900 | wmarone_, could be. | 09:06 |
| GAN900 | It was slow in CA. | 09:07 |
| monoid | 'noscript' is a wonderful ffox plugin | 09:07 |
| wmarone_ | that's because you had 1000 people using it | 09:07 |
| GAN900 | wmarone_, at my friend's apartment in the city | 09:07 |
| wmarone_ | oh, hm | 09:08 |
| GAN900 | and at my parent's house south. | 09:08 |
| monoid | i nfs mounted simtel in 1991 on the laboratory NeXT :) | 09:08 |
| monoid | hmm 1992 mabe | 09:08 |
| wmarone_ | I guess my local comcast franchisee is strangely competent then | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | what a fscking mole | 09:08 |
| wmarone_ | I actually get the speed I pay for | 09:08 |
| GAN900 | I do too, generally | 09:08 |
| GAN900 | But most things just seem slow. | 09:09 |
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| * ruskie is amused at how quickly the conversation goes from Elop bashing to internet slowness | 09:09 | |
| GAN900 | ruskie, late night unfocussednessssss | 09:09 |
| ruskie | 0810 here | 09:09 |
| GAN900 | Besides, there's only so much rage I feel like working up over things anymore. | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: indeed, time to get breakfast, as my stomach can't take the elopocalypse any longer, without a basement | 09:11 |
| ruskie | hehe | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I really wonder what protection class Elop's car is | 09:11 |
| monoid | i want to see the cream pie to the face moment bill gates got | 09:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably he made Nokia get him a car that's nuke-safe | 09:12 |
| GAN900 | Yes. | 09:12 |
| GAN900 | Mr. No-Arms deserves it and more. | 09:12 |
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| Termana | good morning | 09:12 |
| cloudyLights | morning | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | morn Termana | 09:12 |
| monoid | all this bad news makes me appreciate the N900 achievement more | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | I honestly suggest to unify maemo with pure meego and turn it into an anti vendor port project | 09:14 |
| monoid | what this means? | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | get OS on arbitrary hw platforms, with or without support from vendors | 09:15 |
| pabs3 | isn't meego a vendor project? | 09:15 |
| pabs3 | intel etc? | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically emancipate from Nokia | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | and Intel ;-P | 09:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I mean maemo community is still strong, we can drive such a project, even when Elop says meego is dead | 09:16 |
| monoid | i like this | 09:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in the end meego is not a property of Elop, and he can't do more than deny support for porting maemo/meego to future Nokia products. He can't stop it though | 09:18 |
| monoid | umm. he could make drm'd WP7 phones | 09:19 |
| robbiethe1st | Does that matter though? So long as MS gets their WP7 fee for each phone sold, do they really care what OS is actually run? | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I bet a good, even the better part of Nokians is with us, either subversive in their working time, or during leisure time | 09:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus it's probably the only way to significantly spoil Elop's evil plot, when this anti vendor project gets some momentum, as it will have impact on MS plans about the ecosystem | 09:24 |
| pabs3 | how open is meego? is it tightly controlled by vendors? | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | as soon as MS notices it and considers it as a potential threat in the future, they will do as always: embrace | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I can already see Balmer giving Elop a call | 09:25 |
| robbiethe1st | I don't think we have too much to worry about there... No way is MS going to control anything, what with Android taking over the market. Unless MS does something amazing - Like providing a full backawards-compatible desktop environment on x86 phones -- I doubt that will change | 09:26 |
| * pabs3 would consider Debian instead of MeeGo | 09:26 | |
| * pabs3 is biased though | 09:26 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: we got debian "running" on N900 since quite some time afaik. The point is Nokia did a pretty good job in adapting linux to embedded, their particular embedded | 09:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not even meego-arm can catch up with this yet | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I sid "unify maemo-harmattan and meego proper" | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | said* | 09:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mainly it's just abold public statement council had to publish, about "we don't listen to Elop, we definitely will continue Meego(/maemo-harmattan)" | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | first instance | 09:30 |
| * pabs3 would like to see that at the very least | 09:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer | even such statement will kinda counteract Elop's plans | 09:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and may rise sales of N9 quite a bit | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | which will spoil Elp's/Balmer's plans even further | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | then get some anonymous Nokia employees state they like the idea of keeping meego alive and will help any way they can | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe even not so anonymous | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | heck, this Elop isn't Godfather himself | 09:35 |
| monoid | it feels so dilbert | 09:35 |
| pabs3 | get the higher-ups who already left involved in the statement | 09:36 |
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| mece | Discussing elop are we. | 09:38 |
| mece | I get the feeling that guy really hates linux... | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | that guy is MS. Period | 09:39 |
| mece | yep | 09:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL >>Welcome to Nokia Developer Launchpad program! Your membership is now active...<< Applied accidently with reasoning "blablabla" on why I want to join, literally | 09:47 |
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| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: haha! | 09:50 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: as if they have time to actually read applications to the program :p | 09:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems they have, as it took ~16h for acceptance | 09:51 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, so does that mean you're getting a N950? | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | konttori thought I should | 09:55 |
| frals | konttori probably got enough pull on this to make it happen ;) | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd think so, if I was capable to correctly apply | 09:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and he doesn't forget about it during those stormy days | 09:59 |
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| * kirma wonders if the news he passed are exactly from elop's mouth. it would not be the first time news outlets mix up factoids and persons commenting things... still haven't seen the paper version | 10:00 | |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: the thing is, they seem to really want app developer (to bootstrap, I guess) and I'm not sure they're really interested in “platform” people | 10:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | he might even deny and step back, depending on immediate impact this is causing. I doubt though he'll do anything like that | 10:02 |
| ruskie | to arrogant | 10:02 |
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| * ruskie would like a n950 as well but not a dev of any reasonable semblance.. mostly just a hacker | 10:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: Konttori thought it might be valuable to have some "hackers" as well | 10:02 |
| Corsac | good news | 10:03 |
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| Corsac | though 250 n950 is really little, they'll have a hard time selecting people | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, but there are more on the commercial side | 10:03 |
| * pabs3 heard orders of magnitude more | 10:04 | |
| Corsac | ho? | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess so, yes | 10:04 |
| Corsac | (hey pabs3, you've been upgraded?) | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: usual PV run at Nokia is probably some thousand | 10:04 |
| Corsac | not sure exactly where I got that 250 number though | 10:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a correct number for meego community | 10:05 |
| pabs3 | Corsac: I read on tmo that it was ~ 92000 total | 10:05 |
| pabs3 | but who knows how accurate that is :) | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia developer has probably 10 times that number | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: what? | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | WHAT? | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | 92k units N950??? | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, then the sales boxing really makes sense ;-D | 10:07 |
| kerio | i want one! | 10:07 |
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| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: last post on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72784&page=2 | 10:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 10:09 |
| kerio | what i don't understand is why nokia is effectively wasting all the time spent in R&D for the n950 | 10:09 |
| ruskie | hmm what's this about LG making a Meego device??? | 10:09 |
| Choom | if they've got that many even I will apply even though I will most likely not have the time | 10:09 |
| pabs3 | dunno where this tweet is, that seems to be the start of this 92k thing: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1033439&postcount=6354 | 10:09 |
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| ruskie | why does that claim selling? | 10:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, May 5th, Eldar | 10:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | "planning" even | 10:10 |
| Corsac | are we supposed to get a confirmation mail when registering to the developer program? | 10:10 |
| Choom | kerio: I like to believe the idea is to have a platform to fall back to just in case WP7 ends up being a total failure | 10:10 |
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| kerio | well no shit it'll fail | 10:11 |
| kerio | nobody likes wp7 apparently | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: I don't think they planned or are planning now to do so (waste) | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: (LG) rumour has that since quite some time | 10:11 |
| kerio | devs don't like having to use html5, windows mobile users don't like the handholding, linux nerds don't like it because it's windows | 10:12 |
| Choom | it's a big company, with different factions inside, I assume | 10:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: yes | 10:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for devels.nokia.com | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | not so for meego.com aiui | 10:13 |
| Corsac | ok | 10:13 |
| Corsac | (I used meego.com) | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | for dev.nokia.com that's launchpad accept nitification though | 10:13 |
| kirma | full helsingin sanomat elop interview (in finnish): http://pastebin.com/Td9XJyKU | 10:13 |
| Corsac | ok, the 250 number comes from https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 10:14 |
| Choom | I guess I'll pass on that | 10:14 |
| Choom | my finnish isn't up to date | 10:14 |
| ruskie | Choom, run it through a translator | 10:15 |
| kirma | unless it's journalist speculation, it'd appear that elop states that qt is not coming to wp7, and that "according to elop, there is no return to meego, even if n9 would be a sales success" | 10:15 |
| Corsac | well, we already know long term consistency isn't exactly a nokia specialty | 10:16 |
| Corsac | (though I'm not sure we can count on that :) | 10:16 |
| ruskie | kirma, QT is nothing new | 10:16 |
| Corsac | and Intel seems really bored about Harmattan beeing called MeeGo after Nokia dropped them for MS | 10:16 |
| kirma | I really wonder if these should be interpreted as official, stock exchange level statements or if elop uses his freedom to make informal statements to erode credibility of non-windows platforms | 10:17 |
| ruskie | considering the win platform has none.. | 10:17 |
| ruskie | that's a bit hard to do | 10:17 |
| kirma | well, I think the company hasn't explicitly stated anything about inclusion or non-inclusion of qt on wp7 phones | 10:18 |
| ruskie | they have | 10:18 |
| ruskie | iirc | 10:18 |
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| ruskie | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ | 10:19 |
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| Choom | from what I'm reading, elop claims that meego will not return, but in the other hand he doesn't consider the N9's OS to be meego, he regards that as an implementation of "cutie" | 10:24 |
| monoid | why can't he go do something less harmful, like satanic ritual murder of children | 10:26 |
| krayon | :/ /me agrees with monoid | 10:30 |
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| pabs3 | monoid: that should go to LWN as a quote of the week :) | 10:34 |
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| kerio | -sigh- | 10:36 |
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| mece | monoid, LOL | 10:39 |
| mece | monoid, heh I'm listening to a song called ritual right now. They don't state if it's children they murder tho. But satanic it definately is :D No sign of Elop | 10:40 |
| mece | s/definately/definitely/ | 10:41 |
| infobot | mece meant: monoid, heh I'm listening to a song called ritual right now. They don't state if it's children they murder tho. But satanic it definitely is :D No sign of Elop | 10:41 |
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| monoid | sorry that was uncouth | 10:46 |
| monoid | i'd be more upset if i were a finn | 10:46 |
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| khertan | Morning | 10:54 |
| Choom | well | 10:55 |
| Choom | I doubt investors would watch elop driving nokia to the ground idly | 10:56 |
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| Choom | he can be held accountable for damaging management | 10:56 |
| khertan | Choom: investor and board push it to the top of the company, and they probably didn't care of company future, they just want short term profit. | 10:58 |
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| nid0 | tbh, while I want to see succesful followups to the n9 as much as anyone else, a lot of people crying for it really give the wp7 strategy more stick than it deserves | 10:59 |
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| Venemo | nid0, hehe | 11:00 |
| khertan | i think the both system can't survive ... i just hope that the winphone ecosystem will never appear :) | 11:02 |
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| Choom | they need somehting to power the lower end of the spectrum | 11:03 |
| cloudyLights | morning khertan | 11:03 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: Morning | 11:03 |
| Choom | wp7 and harmattan are both high end systems, I don't think they can compete with symbian on budget budget phones | 11:04 |
| cloudyLights | I need to fix the errors you found | 11:05 |
| cloudyLights | that whole def cli() is not in use | 11:05 |
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| khertan | yep but i think wp7 and harmattan can't survive in the same company | 11:05 |
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| cloudyLights | I dont understand, did most developers here use hartman now? | 11:06 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: nope :) | 11:06 |
| cloudyLights | I mean , was all of the noise yesterday here about that new image Nokia released? | 11:06 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: but using python/pyside i'm targetting Fremantle and Harmattan at the same time :) | 11:06 |
| cloudyLights | was it a hartman image? | 11:06 |
| khertan | new image ? | 11:07 |
| cloudyLights | n950 firmware I think | 11:07 |
| cloudyLights | as there was a lot of trrafic I didnt keep up | 11:07 |
| khertan | ah ... yep i take a look at it too :) | 11:07 |
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| cloudyLights | ext4 and such | 11:07 |
| khertan | but i didn't have the device to try it | 11:07 |
| ruskie | cloudyLights, the noise in here is about the N9 and the lack of N950 for sale and yeah the firmware for the N950 | 11:07 |
| cloudyLights | summing it quite good | 11:08 |
| khertan | at the same time, i ve take a look at the repository ... there is a icon for NeedForSpeed shift in the theme :) | 11:08 |
| khertan | and a few other game | 11:08 |
| khertan | so it ll probably be sold with one or two commercial game | 11:08 |
| khertan | :) | 11:08 |
| khertan | (or demo) | 11:09 |
| Choom | it is also possible that nokia is testing the marketplaces | 11:09 |
| Choom | half of apple's profit comes from the iphone | 11:09 |
| Choom | and I'm inclined to believe that the app store contributes with a huge slice to that profit | 11:10 |
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| cloudyLights | I say it too often: the "number if apps" shouldnt be the main factor | 11:17 |
| cloudyLights | the quality of the apps - should | 11:17 |
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| cloudyLights | If I need to choose between a device that does all I NEED and one that can do lots of thing I dont know , I would take the first option | 11:18 |
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| cloudyLights | also, I think that maemo/meego should give better performance compared to android | 11:19 |
| cloudyLights | say agumneted reality applications | 11:19 |
| ruskie | hmm fun... my cellco is offering an VoIP option so that I can use the same mobile number using VoIP stuff... and he wants me to pay 2eur for such a privelege... | 11:19 |
| cloudyLights | sweet | 11:20 |
| ruskie | and of course they charge me for calls normally | 11:20 |
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| khertan | cloudyLights: yep and every user have different use case. | 11:22 |
| * khertan need a keyboard, an source code editor, python and qt | 11:22 | |
| khertan | :) | 11:22 |
| pabs3 | anyone know if the OpenGL ES requirement in Qt 5 is final? or did they recant? | 11:22 |
| cloudyLights | I mean , my co worker has an iphone4 and I think I can now do more with my N900 then he can | 11:22 |
| Choom | khertan: I'm quite excited about the N9, actually | 11:23 |
| Choom | it seems to have been designed with my requirements in mind | 11:23 |
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| nid0 | other than a lack of keyboard, the n9 is overall very ace imo | 11:23 |
| Choom | the iphone has annoying restrictions | 11:23 |
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| Choom | iphone users live comfortably with their on-screen keyboards | 11:25 |
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| PolarFox | iPhone users live comfortably in their iClouds. :) | 11:26 |
| PolarFox | I could make up iStuff forever.. :) | 11:26 |
| monoid | with enough time i could make my own slider case + keyboard for n9 | 11:26 |
| monoid | well, easier to do a hinge | 11:26 |
| khertan | Choom: some iphone user ... i ve try to use it ... clearly not for me | 11:27 |
| khertan | even after 2 weeks ... the onscreen keyboard was a real pain to use | 11:27 |
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| khertan | monoid: http://t.co/Fz6TT9z + http://t.co/KS7BPHD for a keyboard mod :) | 11:28 |
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| khertan | the n9 is a nice device ... it just doesn't for all users | 11:28 |
| Termana | khertan, seriously, I am going to tape your mouth with that duct tape if you link to it again ;) :p | 11:29 |
| khertan | s/for/have all needed thing for all user | 11:29 |
| khertan | Termana: haha | 11:29 |
| PolarFox | Well.. you can get cheap stuff from chine for iPad and iPhone(bt kb) so, why not for N9.. ;) | 11:29 |
| khertan | PolarFox: because it s not well integrated so not useable while standing up in metro or tube ... and drain battery (bluetooth) | 11:30 |
| PolarFox | true :( I wouldn't use one of those while driving either.. :) | 11:31 |
| flailingmonkey | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k very sexy n950 video showing keyboard in use | 11:32 |
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| khertan | PolarFox: using while driving ? bou !!! | 11:32 |
| khertan | dangerous | 11:32 |
| flailingmonkey | you can tell that the extra work to polish UI/apps for landscape as well as portrait (n9's focus) was too much, so they decided for portrait this time, vs. landscape focus when they did N900 | 11:33 |
| PolarFox | khertan: With N8 it's dangerous.. Wasn't that much when using qwerty of N900... | 11:33 |
| khertan | if you didn't look the road or distracting doing something else, reaction time rise up ... it s really dangerous ... | 11:34 |
| khertan | for you ... but also for other | 11:35 |
| pabs3 | hmm, so very shiny, matte screen might be better | 11:35 |
| pabs3 | anyone seen a phone with one? | 11:35 |
| mece | flailingmonkey, quite nice :) I don't think it's as pretty as n9, but damn, WANT! | 11:35 |
| flailingmonkey | It's a bad habit. I'm usually able to wait until at least I am stopped, not while in motion, before reading, let alone writing on my cell | 11:36 |
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| khertan | PolarFox: two week's ago i stop at 10cm of a herd of boar crossing the road ... if i lost less than half of a second to react ... my car will be dead | 11:36 |
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| khertan | mece: you haven't seen it before ? only nfc missing and it ll be the perfect meego device.... but not sold | 11:37 |
| nid0 | but on the bright side, you woulda had plenty of pork to eat | 11:37 |
| khertan | nid0: not really ... how i carry them :) | 11:37 |
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| khertan | nid0: and it s not big pork, it was true boar from Ardennes | 11:38 |
| khertan | not really same impact on the car | 11:38 |
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| khertan | nid0: 80kg | 11:41 |
| flailingmonkey | night | 11:42 |
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| Shapeshifter | I'm always surprised at how useless these android phones are | 11:45 |
| Shapeshifter | I am disappoint. | 11:45 |
| Shapeshifter | The only great things are the superb google sync and maps/places/navigation | 11:45 |
| khertan | Shapeshifter: try to found a text editor with source code highlighting in the iPhone app store ... :) | 11:46 |
| khertan | iphone are useless | 11:46 |
| khertan | :) | 11:46 |
| khertan | (at least for me) | 11:46 |
| Shapeshifter | certainly. but the android market is littered with rubbish. And I just looked up some 'top 20 must have apps' for android and it comes up with lame stuff like facebook and twitter. and some photoshop | 11:47 |
| Shapeshifter | Now I'm trying to find a decent ssh client but they're either terrible or don't work | 11:47 |
| jjo | I think connectbot is ok | 11:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hi Shapeshifter :-) | 11:55 |
| psychologe | DocScrutinizer, hi | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: any clue why alarmed can't get killed by ^C when started from x-term without -C ? | 11:57 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: mh, I need to check, maybe I'm not catching the signal. | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 11:57 |
| mece | khertan, haven't seen it in such detail before :) | 11:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: I typoed yesterday (missed the -C out) and had to head over to other room to close the GUI ;-) | 11:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (didn't feel like messing any databases via kill -9 ) | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | great, devel.nokia.com launchpad DDP has exactly ZERO devices I could get there, incl N9-devpack | 12:02 |
| khertan | mece: :) | 12:03 |
| khertan | mece: you can imagine that .... i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! | 12:03 |
| khertan | while i ll not bought an n9 :) | 12:04 |
| khertan | keyboard + 1Gb of Ram + python apps accepted in ovi ... perfect python mobile device for me :) | 12:04 |
| khertan | and a 4" screen | 12:04 |
| khertan | what can i ask more :) | 12:05 |
| mece | khertan, it is just crazy how epic those specs are.. | 12:05 |
| mece | perfect! | 12:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | khertan: Swings-and-roundabouts on the Boar thing. You'd have lots of tasty, tasty pork though. | 12:08 |
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| nid0 | I already made that suggestion :p | 12:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | That was a test of the emergency SpeedEvil system. | 12:15 |
| SpeedEvil | If that had been a real SpeedEvil, I would have been awake. | 12:15 |
| SpeedEvil | The n9 screen is about the same sie as the n900 isn't it khertan? | 12:16 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, why is that? | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what I try to find out right now, dunno if you can reach that forum: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?225798-N950-avaialbility&p=848505#post848505 | 12:18 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597 | 12:19 |
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| * DocScrutinizer CURSES his DSL, the internets, all webservers and IT in general. Another time page takes minutes to load | 12:21 | |
| nid0 | hey, my webservers are working fine, dont blame them :( | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | minutes? AGES! | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | while a parallel opened page from bmo is almost instantly | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | so same browser, just tabs, that somewhat precludes any problesm with my hw, huh? | 12:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BANG, there it is | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least first 30% | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 12:26 |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: mh yeah the -C option thing is ugly. | 12:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: not too bad, but I felt like asking about it | 12:34 |
| khertan | SpeedEvil: about the same n9 is amoled 3.9", n950 is tft 4" | 12:35 |
| MohammadAG | sure it's tft? | 12:36 |
| Venemo | yes | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | CSTN FTW. | 12:36 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: this is was the note of the firmware flash image say | 12:37 |
| khertan | s/was/what | 12:37 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html | 12:37 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:40 |
| lardman | hey docScrutinizer at least you have internet ;) | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yo, and moo lardman | 12:41 |
| * lardman thinks that may sound odd as he's obviously using the internet now | 12:41 | |
| lardman | hi Doc | 12:41 |
| MohammadAG | ty khertan / Venemo | 12:41 |
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| Venemo | N9: Standby time: Up to 450 hours (WCDMA), up to 380 hours (GSM) ----> how is this possible? I would have thought that GSM takes less energy than WCDMA | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | mo MohammadAG | 12:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: depends on particular build of modem. Basically standby means "RX only" and that might actually be better on WCDMA than on GSM | 12:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | RX with occasional waking up to check for scheduled signal from toer, and more occasional transmit to tower to tell it you're still awake | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | for TX WCDMA is usually more power consuming than GSM, mainly to the active time after transmitting a single byte of data | 12:52 |
| Venemo | mhm | 12:52 |
| MohammadAG | moo DocScrutinizer | 12:53 |
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| Venemo | I gotta go now | 13:00 |
| Venemo | bb | 13:00 |
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| psychologe | hi | 13:00 |
| mece | time to start preparing for midsummers. Bye! | 13:00 |
| psychologe | can some know ,how use command show User_List on X-Chat for N900 | 13:01 |
| psychologe | or user shortkey to show User_List | 13:03 |
| FireFly|n900 | ctrl +vol seems to work here | 13:04 |
| FireFly|n900 | i.e. ctrl+F7 | 13:04 |
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| Shapeshifter | uh, is this right that the builtin maemo sip protocol handling doesn't work with most sip servers? | 13:06 |
| Shapeshifter | because of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5342 | 13:06 |
| povbot | Bug 5342: IM and VoIP accounts: Cannot sign in to ekiga.net SIP. | 13:06 |
| Shapeshifter | and does someone know a provider that works with the n900 behind nat? | 13:06 |
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| robbiethe1st | Sipgate | 13:08 |
| psychologe | FireFly|n900, thank you very much | 13:08 |
| robbiethe1st | Worked easily | 13:08 |
| Shapeshifter | robbiethe1st: "Due to the increased volume of new registrations within the last few weeks, we have unfortunately ran out of free numbers in your area and we are currently not able to offer you any alternative free phone number at the moment" :( | 13:09 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't even want a 'free number' | 13:10 |
| Shapeshifter | tried pbxes.com, also not working | 13:10 |
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| Shapeshifter | \o/ iptel.org works | 13:14 |
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| Shapeshifter | bah. calling out works but calling in doesn't. | 13:20 |
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| Shapeshifter | this sucks. | 13:25 |
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| PolarFox | Now some nameless nokia engineer says that Elop is lying about MeeGo... That they could easily release multiple devices.. nice. | 13:37 |
| Shapeshifter | now it works. oh well | 13:37 |
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| pabs3 | PolarFox: link? | 13:39 |
| PolarFox | http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/ | 13:41 |
| psychologe | mameo the so good system.why nokia loss it | 13:41 |
| PolarFox | pabs3: Story about that blog post is now in finnish media. | 13:42 |
| MohammadAG | hmm interesting | 13:42 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer | 13:42 |
| opdf2 | old news but alien dalvik | 13:43 |
| MohammadAG | I have a friend's phone with me, he wanted it flashed and stuff, he had a lock code and it persisted after flashing | 13:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea, old news. | 13:44 |
| psychologe | flash pr1.2 | 13:44 |
| robbiethe1st | Grab the lock code, crack it with John the reaper | 13:44 |
| robbiethe1st | or w/e | 13:45 |
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| pabs3 | any maemo/nokia folks going to DebConf11? | 13:45 |
| MohammadAG | robbiethe1st, I have the code, just saying that some old FW didn't ask for it after flashing | 13:46 |
| robbiethe1st | Huh, interesting | 13:46 |
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| psychologe | MohammadAG, flash pr1.2 | 13:48 |
| andre__ | PolarFox, I wouldn't call Felipe nameless though... :) | 13:50 |
| PolarFox | andre__: Well.. Finnish media.. ;D | 13:51 |
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| PolarFox | I'm not one of the informed people in here ;) | 13:52 |
| PolarFox | I just whined alot when I had my N900.. | 13:53 |
| PolarFox | Now I whine because I don't have it :( | 13:53 |
| ruskie | heh | 13:55 |
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| psychologe | a | 14:03 |
| psychologe | a | 14:03 |
| psychologe | a | 14:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: TOLDYA | 14:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psychologe: color spaming is asking for kick | 14:36 |
| psychologe | l am sorry | 14:37 |
| * RST38h yawns | 14:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you tested if flashing both images cured the lockcode query issue? | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ...as that's be the right behaviour for this lockcode thing | 14:40 |
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| * DocScrutinizer feels a bit embarrassed to have talked user0 and others thru endless series of hoops that were doomed to fail | 14:41 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: also psychologe 's suggestion to flash PR1.2 COMBINED might or might not help, depending on what Nokia did to "fix" this issue | 14:45 |
| psychologe | flash PR1.2 ,code will clean | 14:46 |
| khertan | with ssh access : install packe code-reset | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | psychologe: you actually tested that? | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: missing the point | 14:49 |
| psychologe | my friend try it ,it's ok | 14:50 |
| RST38h | Ah, I see Elop did explicitely say that N9 is the last device> | 14:50 |
| RST38h | ? | 14:50 |
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| psychologe | but PR1.3 can'5 | 14:50 |
| psychologe | but PR1.3 can't | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | from 1.3 back to 1.2, after flashing 1.3 asked for code? | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: indeed | 14:51 |
| psychologe | YES | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | very good, thanks | 14:51 |
| Hurrian | mmm, since this is #maemo, can i ask if anyone's been able to get the rootfs.lzo file opened up? | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | so Nokia just "fixed" the mce-whatever process that asks for lockcode, and probably checks for a cookie on eMMC somewhere in PR1.3 version | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | the simple but usually sufficient approach | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | not for using PR1.2 rootfs though ;-P | 14:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to fix it for PR1.2 "crack" as well, they had to patch NOLO | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | which still leaves vulnerability of using coldflashing | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | so they can as well not care at all | 14:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they could take down PR1.2 COMBINED from their download site ;-P | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | silly move | 14:57 |
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| Hurrian | then again, most people who steal phones don't usually know how to use flasher ;) | 14:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, the whole purpose is rather questionable in the end | 14:58 |
| robbiethe1st | AAnd you typically lose most data during the flash, so... | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | either they know, then they will crack lockcode anyway | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | or they dont, and just go "meh" | 14:59 |
| robbiethe1st | 'Course, you can alternately just flash a backupmenu image, set it up, and get everything other than was on the rootfs... | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | infinite attack vectors | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | boot meego from uSD, via flasher | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | and recover all | 15:00 |
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| robbiethe1st | Physicall ownership = ownership, really. | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you use proper cryptofs | 15:00 |
| Hurrian | also, n900 wasn't designed for full device encryption | 15:01 |
| Hurrian | as we're painfully aware of | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 15:01 |
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| Hurrian | the most you could do locking down the thing would be crippling osso-usb-export, adding a lockcode, crypting /home and remounting everything, etc | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so general advice: GET YOUR LOCKCODE prior to flashing. If you missed on that, flash PR1.2 rootfs and reset it | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | patching NOLO would help a lot | 15:03 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer: well. how do we patch NOLO? | 15:03 |
| Hurrian | >>>>>closed source | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | not at all, as we're missing source | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | just mentioning it | 15:04 |
| Hurrian | unless we do it like the OpeniBoot people and rewrite it ourselves | 15:04 |
| robbiethe1st | Hurrian: ...Or just mount an encrypted FS on MyDocs, and symlink your important data into that | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, basically, he had the device ask for a lock code every hour or something | 15:04 |
| robbiethe1st | *as a file in | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | I know the code, so I didn't disable this | 15:04 |
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| MohammadAG | the device asked for the code before and after flashing | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems it even asks after flashing on devices that didn't ask before | 15:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as soon as you've changed lock code from default to sth different | 15:05 |
| Hurrian | Doc: O RLY? | 15:05 |
| Hurrian | wow, that's broken | 15:05 |
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| Hurrian | there shouldve been a flag in CAL to indicate whether lock is ON or OFF | 15:06 |
| Hurrian | uhh, like the Symbian phones | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: mhm | 15:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just that it's not like that, at least for PR1.2 | 15:06 |
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| Hurrian | that's a rather sewious regression then] | 15:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so what they probably do is set a flag on both rootfs (there it's known to be in gconf) and on eMMC (there unknown yet), and if any of both is set, then ask for lockcode if it's not the default 12345 | 15:08 |
| * SpeedEvil expands into 4 clones, and sings as a barbershop quartet on the theme of how fun it is to enter bugs into bugzilla. | 15:08 | |
| Hurrian | ah | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, afaik only if you have it set to lock after some time | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | user0 claimed different | 15:09 |
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| javispedro | moo gentlemen | 15:09 |
| RST38h | baaa javispedro | 15:10 |
| Hurrian | moo, just finished shagging another cow | 15:10 |
| nid0 | huh, so elop also just showed off the first wp7 device? | 15:10 |
| RST38h | There is a piece of good news about Elop though: he has never spent more than a year on a job | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo javispedro | 15:10 |
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| Hurrian | nid0: and elop doesn't care whether the N9 is a flop or a hit | 15:10 |
| javispedro | RST38h: there's always a first time! | 15:10 |
| Hurrian | wasted RD dollars indeed | 15:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: the chances of this one being the first time are kinda slim though | 15:11 |
| Hurrian | remember, MS won't certify a device for WP7 if it doesnt have the buttons | 15:11 |
| nid0 | bit dumb telling a load of journos to turn off all their cameras because hes gonna show them something he doesnt want getting out | 15:11 |
| nid0 | then whipping out a new phone | 15:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | haha | 15:12 |
| javispedro | nid0: not dumb | 15:12 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if the CEO needs to sign NDAs. | 15:12 | |
| Hurrian | javispedro: practically every WP7 device looks very much the same. | 15:13 |
| Hurrian | slab, the nav buttons, and screen pixel density | 15:13 |
| javispedro | where are the nav buttons on this one btw? | 15:13 |
| FIQ | MS controls how devices with WP7 are being built | 15:13 |
| nid0 | it seems like nokia have got carte blanche to ignore that | 15:13 |
| Hurrian | MS is very, very strict about this | 15:13 |
| nid0 | as the new one's identical to the n9 but with a camera button | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG | I hate how KDE restores everything I had open before shutting down | 15:14 |
| Hurrian | MAG, gnome3 does this too by default | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: you can turn that off somehow. I forget how. | 15:14 |
| Hurrian | OS X Lion now does this too | 15:14 |
| Hurrian | WHY | 15:14 |
| FIQ | That's useful in some peoples opinions | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: change it in KDE sysconfig | 15:14 |
| nid0 | yer, tbh its incredibly useful | 15:14 |
| FIQ | Pretty sure that is possible to shut off | 15:14 |
| Hurrian | FIQ, useful for people who only browse facebook and the like | 15:14 |
| MohammadAG | implementing a custom enhanced lockscreen, QWidget/QML? | 15:14 |
| javispedro | it's the unix way | 15:14 |
| Hurrian | when i say shut down, i say SHUT DOWN | 15:15 |
| nid0 | and it shuts down | 15:15 |
| Hurrian | and no, windows, shutting down does not take 20 minutes | 15:15 |
| Hurrian | same goes for android | 15:15 |
| Hurrian | and iOS | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | KDEsystemsettings->extended->sessionmanagement | 15:15 |
| HRH_H_Crab | Hurrian: ive seen windows take 20 mins to shutdown before on numerous occasions. | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ^^^ | 15:15 |
| FIQ | I have as well | 15:16 |
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| MohammadAG | ty DocScrutinizer | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 15:16 |
| HRH_H_Crab | only the other day i pulled the plug on a w2k3 server because i was cheesed off with waiting for it. | 15:16 |
| FIQ | Usually it is when it feels like installing some random things within windows update | 15:16 |
| nid0 | even my tablet only take like 5 mins to shutdown win7 after a huge round of updates, maybe try not running it on a toaster | 15:16 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: are the channel logs true? was your launchpad application approved???? | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:17 |
| Hurrian | nid0, running it on a sandy bridge i5-2500k + 128GB SSD | 15:17 |
| javispedro | GOD HEAVENS! | 15:17 |
| MohammadAG | so again, should I use QML or QWidget for the custom lockscreen? | 15:17 |
| Hurrian | deffo not a toaster | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | BUT.... | 15:17 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: QWidget !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 15:17 |
| javispedro | so what the hell does launchpad have against me?? | 15:17 |
| FIQ | NO BUTS | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?225798-N950-avaialbility&p=848505#post848505 | 15:17 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I am not there for the devices | 15:18 |
| khertan | javispedro: it s not against you ... it s against everyone which aren't applying for a windows phone | 15:18 |
| khertan | (as there is no win phone ... it s against everyone) | 15:18 |
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| * MohammadAG wonders how good of a UI he can get with QWidgets | 15:18 | |
| javispedro | ok, where do I complain | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: apply again. They accepted "blablabla" as my reason to join | 15:18 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: cannot: it says my application is in progress!! | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 15:19 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: REALLY??? | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ohfsck | 15:19 |
| javispedro | "blablablabla" | 15:19 |
| javispedro | ?? | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:19 |
| javispedro | literally??? | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes!! | 15:19 |
| * javispedro curses | 15:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I mailed support though, whining about the whole case and why I entered blablabla on 4th time trying | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe that's been it | 15:20 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: tell me who to spam | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | support link | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | on that friggin page | 15:20 |
| javispedro | stephen.elop@nokia.com | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 15:21 |
| javispedro | "There is an existing membership application already for this program. The applicant will be notified by e-mail once the membership application has been reviewed. " | 15:21 |
| javispedro | and I made my application back when they had the _old_ design | 15:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fsck | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell that to support | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think I used https://www.developer.nokia.com/General/Website_Feedback.xhtml | 15:23 |
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| javispedro | done | 15:26 |
| * javispedro -> lunch | 15:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | mmpf, 5 N900 on remote-device-access, no N950 though | 15:27 |
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| petterw | regarding nfc: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/netcom-shows-off-microsd-card-with-integrated-nfc-goodness-vide/ | 15:41 |
| ShadowJK | does nfc-on-microsd also come with specs for writing a driver... | 15:42 |
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| Hurrian | first rule is that neither the back cover nor the microSD card holder should be made out of metal; | 15:43 |
| Hurrian | teee heee | 15:43 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 15:44 |
| Macer | yawn | 15:44 |
| Hurrian | then again, those card shields are easily removable | 15:44 |
| Hurrian | they dont need device disassembly | 15:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | There have been all sorts of completely wacky SDs. | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | One with GPS | 15:46 |
| petterw | so only company launchpad members can purchase dev devices? | 15:47 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand, yes. | 15:47 |
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| jonwil | Having only recently bought a N900, I dont much care about the N9 or the N950 | 15:49 |
| jonwil | :P | 15:49 |
| Hurrian | >The Nokia N9-00 is a smartphone made by Nokia based on the MeeGo "Harmattan" mobile operating system. | 15:49 |
| Hurrian | does not compute | 15:49 |
| Hurrian | first, did they get meego cert for it? | 15:50 |
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| Hurrian | second, i dont remember nokia naming a meego instance "harmattan" | 15:50 |
| Hurrian | iirc "harmattan" + Moblin became mainline meego | 15:50 |
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| * jonwil is sad that Maemo bug 8347 is unlikely to be fixed :( | 15:53 | |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available | 15:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh! | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Does n950 use a related modem? | 15:55 |
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| jonwil | The sad fact is that its a 1-line change but its in a closed binary that has too many exports to the rest of the system to be easily replaced with an open-source clone | 15:58 |
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| jonwil | Although right now I would be happy if I could figure out why Findmine from the | 16:01 |
| jonwil | from the repos | 16:01 |
| jonwil | wont boot | 16:01 |
| Termana | Hurrian, what are you ON? | 16:01 |
| jonwil | draws some stuff then fails | 16:01 |
| jonwil | and quits | 16:01 |
| Termana | Just do a google search for Harmattan MeeGo | 16:02 |
| jonwil | Any ideas how I can debug what Findmine might be doing or why its suddenly failing? | 16:02 |
| Termana | and yes, they got TSG approval to use the name | 16:02 |
| jonwil | I tried a reinstall and and a reboot and etc and no luck :( | 16:02 |
| Termana | jonwil, RE: <jonwil> Having only recently bought a N900, I dont much care about the N9 or the N950 | 16:02 |
| Termana | That'll change soon enough, believe me | 16:02 |
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| Termana | Back just before the N900 got released, even though I knew it was coming, I brought an N810. When the N900 got released I thought I could contain myself | 16:03 |
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| jonwil | I only bought one in January and I just cant afford to replace my "new" phone so soon after purchase | 16:04 |
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| Choom | you can always sell your old new phone and buy a genuinely new one | 16:06 |
| Choom | some people seem to want to own as many n900 as they can put their hands on here | 16:06 |
| Termana | But if you buy an N9 | 16:06 |
| jonwil | well I have no interest in buying a N9 | 16:06 |
| Termana | Your only allowed to get it in black | 16:07 |
| Termana | ;) | 16:07 |
| jonwil | since I specifically bought the N900 because of the physical keyboard | 16:07 |
| Choom | not like the n900 had many colors to choose from | 16:07 |
| jonwil | And the N950 isn't likely to be something I can obtain here in Australia with an Australian warranty that I can get fixed at the local Nokia Care | 16:08 |
| Termana | jonwil, no N950 will come with any warranty, since that is the devkit | 16:08 |
| Choom | that's not for public consumption either | 16:08 |
| Termana | The N9 will come in Australia, with Nokia Care here | 16:08 |
| an0therb0x | is the alien dalvik application available for the N900 ? | 16:08 |
| edheldil | I have bought my n900 in May, for ~ 150$. Since I expect the n9/n950 will/would be close to 1000$ here, no much offset in selling n900 for n9 | 16:08 |
| jonwil | but I dont want an N9 | 16:08 |
| jonwil | so I have no option but to keep my N900 as the N950 is not likely to be available to me | 16:09 |
| kerio | the n9 is horrible | 16:09 |
| Termana | The N950 is only available to developers, but the N9 will be available in Australia | 16:09 |
| kerio | i don't know wtf was nokia thinking | 16:10 |
| Termana | what exactly are you defining as "not like to be _available to me_" | 16:10 |
| Termana | likely* | 16:10 |
| kerio | the only hope is the fact that they did design the n950, and making 5 units is going to be a waste | 16:10 |
| Choom | they were and are thinking about a phone for human beings looking for a phone and not a pocket linux box | 16:10 |
| kerio | Choom: well they thought wrong, because nobody will buy it for that purpose | 16:11 |
| Choom | I will | 16:11 |
| kerio | because for normal phones there's android and the iphone | 16:11 |
| Choom | and many iphone users have demonstrated interest in it | 16:11 |
| kerio | anyway, they're evidently capable of making n950s | 16:11 |
| kerio | why won't they sell me one | 16:11 |
| Macer | i want a pocket linux box heh | 16:12 |
| Termana | kerio, manufacturing/carrier issues | 16:12 |
| Choom | I do expect the N9 to sell a lot better than the N900 | 16:12 |
| kerio | carrier issues? :| | 16:12 |
| Termana | Also | 16:12 |
| Macer | i am sure there is a pretty big market for that | 16:12 |
| kerio | i want to buy it from nokia | 16:12 |
| Termana | They have designed the N9 for both MeeGo and WP7 | 16:12 |
| Macer | i don't want a qwertyless n9 :( | 16:12 |
| Macer | and i sure in hell dont want winmob | 16:12 |
| kerio | Macer: you mean you don't want a qwertyless nit | 16:13 |
| Termana | That's why they are selling the N9, because they can mass produce them for both markets | 16:13 |
| kerio | the n9 is qwertyless | 16:13 |
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| Macer | kerio: nope. phone too | 16:13 |
| Macer | i know it is | 16:13 |
| kerio | well, yeah | 16:13 |
| kerio | nit/phone, like the n900 | 16:13 |
| Macer | which is why i hope they release the n950 to the masses | 16:13 |
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| Macer | kerio: well. i would consider it more of a laptop in my pocket | 16:13 |
| an0therb0x | Nokia is very puzzling , why would they tie themselves down to a single OS, if an individual is an adherent Nokia fan and is interested in trying applications of functions available on Android or WinOS you are not forced to move away from Nokia | 16:13 |
| Macer | but whatever :) | 16:13 |
| petterw | they've said they won't pretty clearly | 16:14 |
| kerio | an0therb0x: because elop | 16:14 |
| kirma | everything elop has been doing lately, especially after revealing N9 has pointed towards him trying to kill all interest on the device, though. | 16:14 |
| an0therb0x | why no make great devices that runs Android WinOS and Meego | 16:14 |
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| Macer | petterw: they said the n950 will be released to devs | 16:14 |
| kirma | next he could announce that all developers are fired before the device is coming to consumers | 16:14 |
| Choom | an0therb0x: exclusivity agreements | 16:14 |
| Macer | meego without a qwerty is retarded if it has xterm :) | 16:14 |
| petterw | Macer: that's not "to the masses" | 16:14 |
| kerio | Macer: and meego without xterm is retarded | 16:14 |
| Macer | kirma: i can see that | 16:15 |
| Termana | Macer, xterm is not included by default on the n9. You can install it though | 16:15 |
| Choom | though I don't think wp7 is going to power the budget phones | 16:15 |
| Macer | Termana: omg wtf? | 16:15 |
| kerio | Termana: and how can you operate it? | 16:15 |
| an0therb0x | Choom: Samsung , HTC makes devices for Android and WinOS , why not Nokia ? | 16:15 |
| Macer | with the vkb? | 16:15 |
| kerio | with a virtual keyboard taking half of the screen away? | 16:15 |
| Termana | kerio, wtf do you mean | 16:15 |
| Macer | :) | 16:15 |
| kerio | the n900 can barely display 79x25 | 16:15 |
| Macer | or a bt keyboard | 16:15 |
| kerio | and that's going fullscreen with no toolbar | 16:16 |
| nid0 | theres a question about a BT keyboard though | 16:16 |
| nid0 | DOES an n9 support them? | 16:16 |
| Choom | an0therb0x: they might be trying to find a place in the new phone market | 16:16 |
| nid0 | because the current spec list doesnt include the hid profile | 16:16 |
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| Choom | nid0: there's no reason to believe it won't | 16:17 |
| nid0 | well, the spec list listing all the bluetooth profiles it supports, and not having hid on the list, would be a reason. | 16:18 |
| an0therb0x | oh well hope the N950 is available to the public because I like Maemo/Meego and the physical keyboard , btw I tried Meego 1.99 on the N900 it comes with firefox | 16:18 |
| * ShadowJK has 133x27, not fullscreen. N900 | 16:18 | |
| ShadowJK | Choom, dude, experience tells us that if obvious feature is not listed, it's probably missing | 16:19 |
| Choom | it's a software issue | 16:19 |
| ShadowJK | well of course it is. | 16:19 |
| Choom | it's not like the FM transmitter, which you can not fix | 16:19 |
| Choom | it's more like MMS on the N900, which you can | 16:19 |
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| Choom | that's assuming it really isn't supported | 16:20 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, that's not entirely true | 16:20 |
| Termana | Wasn't like on the N800 or something there was something hidden | 16:20 |
| Termana | IIRC | 16:20 |
| ShadowJK | eh? | 16:21 |
| ShadowJK | N800 supported bluetooth keyboards. N810 too. On N900 you need hacking | 16:22 |
| Termana | No, I'm simply saying that there was a feature on I pretty sure it was the N800, that was not listed but was later discovered | 16:22 |
| Termana | I'm pretty* | 16:23 |
| nid0 | interesting that the n9 apparently is actually going to ship with swype though | 16:23 |
| ShadowJK | are you sure that's swype, and not you, or someone else, confusing it with swipe? | 16:23 |
| nid0 | if theres confusion, its on nokia's spec list | 16:24 |
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| nid0 | under "software platform" | 16:24 |
| nid0 | Swipe gesture instantly takes you back to the home view you started from | 16:24 |
| nid0 | then "applications" | 16:24 |
| nid0 | Key applications: Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Joikuspot Wi-Fi tethering, Accuweather, AP News, Swype, Track and Protect, Galaxy on Fire 2, Real Golf, Angry Birds Magic, Mail, video player, Drive, Feeds, search, calculator, Calendar, Contacts, music player, web browser, messaging, photos, photo editor, Ovi Store, Maps | 16:24 |
| ShadowJK | hm :-) | 16:24 |
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| MohammadAG | how lockscreens should be http://i53.tinypic.com/2yoeb6a.jpg :) | 16:28 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, playing bad music? | 16:29 |
| Termana | just kidding :p | 16:29 |
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| MoonTiger | hey guys .... anybody here familiar with qt? | 16:33 |
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| psychologe | i am new study pyqt | 16:38 |
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| khertan | MoonTiger: depends ... | 16:41 |
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| khertan | oh god ... the #n9 camera button to take picture is soft ... | 16:43 |
| khertan | this sucks | 16:43 |
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| khertan | like on iphone | 16:43 |
| khertan | each time u move move your hand on the screen | 16:44 |
| khertan | pfff | 16:44 |
| jiero | hi, guys, may I ask few questions. I got sound issue with some games including abuse, alien blaster, seems all sdl games. | 16:44 |
| ShadowJK | do you have silent profile on? | 16:44 |
| jiero | beside, another question is, I cannot use camera. | 16:44 |
| jiero | silent profile? | 16:44 |
| jiero | I can listen to music and play some other games fine | 16:45 |
| nid02 | khertan, community app #2 to be released for it will probably a shortcutd variant to repurpose the screen lock/power button when in the camera as a shutter :) | 16:45 |
| jiero | One more issue is: the keyboard have tap sound - can I disable this feature? | 16:45 |
| ShadowJK | music player bypasses phone profile setting | 16:45 |
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| X-Fade | It is funny to see that Sea Ray did get a shutter button though :) | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | Settings - display - touh screen vibration | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | uh wait | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | keyboard? | 16:46 |
| nid02 | X-Fade: the design story video for the n9 also has what now seem to be sea ray shown in it | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | oh, settings - profile - key sounds | 16:47 |
| nid02 | as it shows a few shots of an n9 with an extra button, which originally looked like an older prototype or something | 16:47 |
| X-Fade | nid02: Brothers :) | 16:47 |
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| jiero | ShadowJK: thanks | 16:48 |
| jiero | ShadowJK: i saw other user post in forum about the same camera issue after setup cssu | 16:49 |
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| jiero | The usage of tense... I have to improve my English... | 16:51 |
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| MoonTiger | khertan, thnx ... i was in the qt channel and they helped | 16:53 |
| MoonTiger | just learning the "qt way" | 16:53 |
| MoonTiger | and using the qtcreator thingy | 16:54 |
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| MoonTiger | i think it is better to move to qt for n900 and future work yes? | 16:54 |
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| tommis | can someone tell me, how do i access my n810 via ssh? | 17:04 |
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| tommis | i've installed openssh | 17:04 |
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| khertan | MoonTiger: Yes it s ... even if qml isn't really ready for all apps, and qwidget is deprecated for future :) | 17:08 |
| MoonTiger | ok | 17:08 |
| MohammadAG | QWidget is NOT deprecated | 17:09 |
| MoonTiger | at least its c++ .... plain c is a nightmare after getting used to c++ / pyhton etc | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo deprecates it | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | Harmattan doesn't | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | Qt 5 has it marked as done, not deprecated | 17:09 |
| MoonTiger | what replaces it in meego? | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | QML is the preferred UI toolkit | 17:10 |
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| MohammadAG | MTF is nice, and deprecated | 17:10 |
| MoonTiger | qml is the script stuff no? | 17:10 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: but Harmattan isn't already marked as deprecated ? :) | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | khertan, Harmattan is quite nice | 17:11 |
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| khertan | MohammadAG: of course Harmattan is quite nice ... | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | MoonTiger, Qt Metaobject Language | 17:11 |
| MoonTiger | a markup language | 17:12 |
| MoonTiger | *sigh* | 17:12 |
| MohammadAG | if you're a web dev it's easy to develop in | 17:12 |
| MohammadAG | exactly what I feel about it | 17:12 |
| MoonTiger | i dont want to do f***ing web dev :) | 17:12 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: if you are a dev it s more easy to make really crappy design | 17:12 |
| MoonTiger | i do enough of that anyways | 17:12 |
| MoonTiger | in php / c# | 17:12 |
| MoonTiger | i want to do c++ | 17:12 |
| MohammadAG | but eventually you have to get with the times I guess | 17:12 |
| MoonTiger | i like c++ | 17:12 |
| MohammadAG | Me too | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | I don't know QML well | 17:13 |
| khertan | MoonTiger: it s not web dev ... it s a look like css/js interface to say ... put my fucking QObject at this place | 17:13 |
| khertan | the rest can be done in c/c++ | 17:13 |
| khertan | or whatever else | 17:13 |
| MoonTiger | so its the ms xaml approach | 17:13 |
| khertan | the problem is that it s new, and not mature enought | 17:13 |
| MoonTiger | *sigh* squared | 17:13 |
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| khertan | don't know anything related to ms | 17:14 |
| MoonTiger | lucky u | 17:14 |
| khertan | it s a choice | 17:14 |
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| MoonTiger | well i have to pay the rent | 17:14 |
| * khertan too | 17:14 | |
| MoonTiger | so that currently involves businesses who are MS shops | 17:14 |
| khertan | but i didn't use ms tech | 17:14 |
| MoonTiger | if i could fins OS based businesses i would be happy | 17:14 |
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| khertan | the product run on ms windows | 17:15 |
| khertan | but i didn't touch it | 17:15 |
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| khertan | :) | 17:15 |
| MoonTiger | *sigh* | 17:15 |
| khertan | i use 4D | 17:15 |
| khertan | :) | 17:15 |
| khertan | a frenchy dev env | 17:15 |
| khertan | and for the rest ... PYTHON !!!! | 17:15 |
| MoonTiger | well i have to make big db driven web cms systems that run fast enough not to suck on IIS and .net | 17:15 |
| tommis | can someone tell me, how do i access my n810 via ssh? | 17:16 |
| MoonTiger | tommis, find its ip and log in? | 17:16 |
| khertan | ok.... there is some c#dot.net dev in my team | 17:16 |
| MoonTiger | khertan, u are a python ninja | 17:16 |
| khertan | python lover :) | 17:17 |
| MoonTiger | i prefer c++ .... i dont quite get the python object model yet | 17:17 |
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| khertan | addict ... ninja ... probably not ... ninja are discrete | 17:17 |
| MoonTiger | hehe | 17:17 |
| khertan | MoonTiger: depends of use case ... each language have advantage ... and problems | 17:18 |
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| khertan | anyway ... even in 4D i use python now for some tasks | 17:18 |
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| khertan | http://khertan.net/python_for_4d <<< for example ... this is a plugin to integrate python interpreter in 4D, and it s written in c | 17:18 |
| khertan | :) | 17:18 |
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| lcuk | khertan, | 17:19 |
| lcuk | i have a c project | 17:19 |
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| khertan | lcuk: hey ! | 17:19 |
| lcuk | \o | 17:19 |
| tommis | MoonTiger, don't work | 17:19 |
| khertan | lcuk: yeah ? a c project ? | 17:20 |
| MoonTiger | tommis, do ou have openssh installed on the n810? | 17:20 |
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| lcuk | khertan, | 17:20 |
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| lcuk | pseudocode | 17:20 |
| lcuk | called project_42 | 17:20 |
| MoonTiger | lcuk, i have a bunch of c code i wrote just lately for n900 .... what a throw back to the old days | 17:20 |
| tommis | MoonTiger, yep | 17:20 |
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| MoonTiger | khertan, 4d is like powerbuilder | 17:20 |
| lcuk | khertan, http://liqbase.net/liq.20110621_200232.codebox4.scr.png | 17:20 |
| MoonTiger | tommis, is it running? | 17:20 |
| tommis | i dunno | 17:20 |
| tommis | how do i check | 17:20 |
| MoonTiger | open a terminal and do "ps -e | grep ssh" | 17:21 |
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| tommis | ssh root@localhost worked on N810 itself so i quess it should pe | 17:21 |
| tommis | be* | 17:21 |
| khertan | lcuk: look like basic | 17:21 |
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| khertan | MoonTiger: more like WinDev, Or Omnis | 17:22 |
| MoonTiger | right | 17:22 |
| khertan | lcuk: pretty slow write ... are you using n9 vkb ? | 17:22 |
| MoonTiger | tommis, does your network have a firewall? or port forwarding? | 17:22 |
| khertan | :) | 17:23 |
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| lcuk | khertan, | 17:23 |
| lcuk | what do you mean slow write? | 17:23 |
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| tommis | MoonTiger, i've got no idea | 17:23 |
| lcuk | that is hand-typed! | 17:23 |
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| khertan | oh ... really ? | 17:23 |
| MoonTiger | tommis, u might want to find out :) | 17:23 |
| khertan | this explain that :) | 17:23 |
| khertan | i va | 17:23 |
| tommis | i should check probably | 17:23 |
| khertan | i use a keyboard :) | 17:23 |
| tommis | i should have tought that | 17:23 |
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| lcuk | khertan, it is my hand writing but typed. | 17:24 |
| MoonTiger | tommis, np ;) | 17:24 |
| tommis | but i am stupid and i need help on everything | 17:24 |
| lcuk | so I wrote some random pseudocode | 17:24 |
| MoonTiger | its cool to ask 1st time | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | and a parser for it | 17:24 |
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| MoonTiger | but but but lcuk.....you're smart :) | 17:30 |
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| lcuk | MoonTiger, determined. | 17:30 |
| khertan | lcuk: seems pretty nice | 17:30 |
| lcuk | MoonTiger, when I look to my left, I see: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png | 17:30 |
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| MoonTiger | well my lil identica app has been rewritten 4 times already | 17:34 |
| lcuk | MoonTiger, each developer has their birdsong | 17:34 |
| MoonTiger | libgrss / not libgrss .... libsoup / not libsoup | 17:35 |
| lcuk | is that 4 times on maemo or overall different oses? | 17:35 |
| MoonTiger | :) | 17:35 |
| MoonTiger | using diff approaches and libs | 17:35 |
| MoonTiger | to get it feeling right | 17:35 |
| MoonTiger | it wasnt feeling "elegant" | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG | Python, C/Gtk, C++/Qt, QML? :P | 17:35 |
| MoonTiger | well it was plain c | 17:36 |
| MoonTiger | now im going to use qt | 17:36 |
| MoonTiger | so c++ | 17:36 |
| MoonTiger | i know the world doesnt need another identica client but i want to do one for the fun and learning | 17:36 |
| MoonTiger | and cos i think heybuddy isnt so good on maemo | 17:36 |
| khertan | it s like me ... i ve written pygtkeditor ... version 2 using gtksourceview ... version 3 not ... khteditor ... rewrite in qt ... khteditor 2 ... rewrite in more elegent qt :) | 17:37 |
| MoonTiger | its about the feel of it for me | 17:37 |
| khertan | MoonTiger: Khweeteur can use identi.ca :) | 17:37 |
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| MoonTiger | it has to "feel" right | 17:37 |
| MoonTiger | right but i dont like the interfaces and lack of multi account support | 17:37 |
| MoonTiger | oh ... multi account supprt | 17:38 |
| MoonTiger | doh! | 17:38 |
| tommis | i just rm -rf / *'ed my N810. is this bad? | 17:38 |
| MoonTiger | tommis, probably yes | 17:38 |
| rm_work | reflash, win | 17:38 |
| MoonTiger | khertan, that looks sweet actually | 17:38 |
| khertan | MoonTiger: it support multiaccount :) ... and after the ui ... it s a personnal choice | 17:38 |
| MoonTiger | is it in the dev repo? | 17:38 |
| khertan | i can understand some didn't like it | 17:38 |
| tommis | oh now the poor N810 tries to boot | 17:38 |
| khertan | MoonTiger: yep in the dev repo | 17:39 |
| MoonTiger | i will install it now | 17:39 |
| khertan | brb in 10 min | 17:39 |
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| MoonTiger | khertan, 27mb for khweeteur?? | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | Probably python | 17:40 |
| MoonTiger | thats why i want to write a native app | 17:40 |
| MoonTiger | i knew there was a reason | 17:41 |
| MoonTiger | :) | 17:41 |
| tommis | if i take battery out of my N810 while its running the screen keeps the last image | 17:41 |
| tommis | like ghost or something | 17:41 |
| tommis | scary | 17:41 |
| MoonTiger | thats impossible | 17:42 |
| tommis | ? | 17:42 |
| ShadowJK | it's python AND qt :) | 17:42 |
| MoonTiger | with no power the lcd goes dark | 17:42 |
| tommis | hmm | 17:42 |
| ShadowJK | MoonTiger, actually the LCD goes slowly white, and the backlight dies | 17:42 |
| tommis | haha | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, Python and PyQt actually :p | 17:42 |
| tommis | great success | 17:43 |
| MoonTiger | i mean khweeteur sure looks nice and is a damn sight more powerful than i am going to write but 27mb?? | 17:43 |
| MoonTiger | ShadowJK, without paower an lcd goes dark .... no power = no "on" switches | 17:43 |
| Termana | Gees | 17:43 |
| Termana | Did the N9 suddenly roll in a bunch of turd lickers? | 17:44 |
| MoonTiger | Termana, ? | 17:44 |
| Termana | /ignore #maemo | 17:45 |
| ShadowJK | MoonTiger, it's actually one of the ways you can tell if your N900 has bad battery contacts, if it goes white just before getting entirely black (because backlight also went away) | 17:45 |
| MoonTiger | ahhhhhhh | 17:45 |
| MoonTiger | ShadowJK, but thats n900 specific and it will go dark without paower | 17:45 |
| Termana | MoonTiger, it's quite obvious you have not used an N810 | 17:45 |
| MoonTiger | just it might do something else for a few seconds before going dark | 17:45 |
| MoonTiger | Termana, i have an n810 | 17:46 |
| MoonTiger | thanks | 17:46 |
| MoonTiger | i wrote software for it | 17:46 |
| MoonTiger | thanks | 17:46 |
| MoonTiger | next | 17:46 |
| Termana | Pull the fucking battery out of it while it's stuck on the bootloader dipshit | 17:46 |
| MoonTiger | mine didnt get stuck on the bootloader so i cant | 17:46 |
| MoonTiger | dipshit | 17:46 |
| Termana | Then stop talking about things that you have no clue about | 17:47 |
| MoonTiger | and if you have managed to create an lcd that retains an image after having no power you should file for a nobel prize | 17:47 |
| ShadowJK | Actually my SmartQ 7 does it too. It has sysfs nodes exposing the power controls for lcd and backlight. When just lcd power is cut, it fades to white. When it "properly" switches off screen, the software coordinates painting the screen black, switching off backlight, switching off lcd | 17:47 |
| MoonTiger | how can it be "white" with no power?? | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | it's probably the default state :-) | 17:48 |
| MoonTiger | but white is the generating of light | 17:48 |
| MoonTiger | black is the absence of light | 17:48 |
| MoonTiger | no power = no light | 17:49 |
| MoonTiger | what am i missing? | 17:49 |
| hiemanshu | intelligence | 17:49 |
| MoonTiger | possily | 17:49 |
| MoonTiger | +b | 17:49 |
| MoonTiger | typing skills for sure | 17:49 |
| ShadowJK | backlight is on. The LCD normally either passes or blocks light by using electrical current to make crystals align in a certain direction polarizing the light. If the crystals naturally pass light through with no power applied, it'll look white | 17:50 |
| Choom | I think the N900's default is black | 17:50 |
| MoonTiger | from the reflected light? | 17:50 |
| ShadowJK | also from the dying backlight | 17:51 |
| ShadowJK | it has bigger power buffer | 17:51 |
| MoonTiger | the dying backlight yes of course | 17:51 |
| MoonTiger | but when that has gone | 17:51 |
| hiemanshu | you know the crystals dont exactly change the state as soon the power is cut | 17:51 |
| MoonTiger | yes of course | 17:51 |
| ShadowJK | and on SmartQ7 I can turn lcd off and keep backlight on :) | 17:51 |
| MoonTiger | thats why i said when it has *no* power | 17:51 |
| hiemanshu | so the front layer allows the light to pass | 17:52 |
| hiemanshu | and since there is no backlight, its not bright white | 17:52 |
| MoonTiger | but pass from where? | 17:52 |
| MoonTiger | ahhhh ok | 17:52 |
| hiemanshu | you know how LCDs work? | 17:52 |
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| MoonTiger | yes | 17:52 |
| MoonTiger | well i think so | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | Anyway, google admitted on Earth Day that "turning out the lights" on google.com frontpage (they gave it black background) actually wasted more power, because it takes more power to display black on lcd than to display white :P | 17:52 |
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| MoonTiger | liquid crystal between 2 sheets of plastic that either block or allow light | 17:53 |
| Choom | ShadowJK: that depends on the LCD | 17:53 |
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| MoonTiger | so there are black and white lcds? | 17:53 |
| Choom | yes, of course | 17:53 |
| MoonTiger | not "black and white" as in monochrome | 17:53 |
| hiemanshu | black means no light is being passed, white means all light is being passed | 17:53 |
| MoonTiger | i mean black lcds and white lcds | 17:53 |
| Choom | yes | 17:54 |
| MoonTiger | but where does the light "pass" from if it has no power? | 17:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | transflection. | 17:54 |
| MoonTiger | ok so reflected light | 17:55 |
| Choom | if the crystals in the active layer display a parallel alignment to the polarizing filter in the active layer, light passes through by default | 17:55 |
| ShadowJK | My watch is actually hybrid, the numbers appear black under reflected light, but the backlight has inverted polarisation compared to reflected light, so when i activate backlight the background appears black and the numbers white :) | 17:55 |
| Termana | MoonTiger, when this is all done, you can have some of my ice cream. It's cookies and cream, it'll make you feel better. | 17:55 |
| MoonTiger | Termana, ok thnx ... my head hurts already | 17:55 |
| khertan | http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/nokias-first-windows-phone-images-and-video/ <<< look like elop is trying to kill the MeeGo n9 buzz | 17:55 |
| hiemanshu | stop using it then | 17:55 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: let me link you the full video | 17:56 |
| MoonTiger | hiemanshu, ok if you willstart being more polite | 17:56 |
| Choom | if you turn the polarizing filter 90 degrees the crystals in the active filter will align perpendicularly to the polarizing filter thus preventing light from passing by default | 17:56 |
| khertan | and a french joke : Elop ton windows phone, on en a rien à SeeRay | 17:56 |
| hiemanshu | MoonTiger: you know I am just kidding :P | 17:56 |
| MoonTiger | choom ok got it | 17:56 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: http://www.technet.hu/telefon/20110624/exkluziv_video_elop_bemutatja_az_elso_windowsos_nokiat/ | 17:56 |
| khertan | hiemanshu: no need to view this crappy os ... | 17:56 |
| * MoonTiger is feeling sensitive | 17:56 | |
| MoonTiger | :) | 17:56 |
| ShadowJK | ancient finnish joke: Mokia | 17:56 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: thats the full video :P | 17:56 |
| ShadowJK | (it means screw-up-ia) | 17:57 |
| hiemanshu | where he talks about the N9, and how the UX from the N9 will stay | 17:57 |
| MoonTiger | god he's a knob | 17:57 |
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| GAN900 | nid0, Bluetooth keyboards are supported. | 17:59 |
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| nid0 | GAN900: great, so hid's just missing from the list but is there? | 17:59 |
| MoonTiger | wow winphone does actually blow | 17:59 |
| MoonTiger | i have a very good friend at ms and even he admits it sucks and isnt ready yet | 17:59 |
| jonwil | I would NEVER buy a Windows Phone 7 phone | 17:59 |
| hiemanshu | jonwil: I would buy one, spit on it, and throw it outside my windows, just for the lulz :P | 18:00 |
| hiemanshu | -s | 18:00 |
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| jonwil | The #1 reason being that you need to pay Microsoft a yearly fee just to be able to write your own software for it. | 18:01 |
| jonwil | With the N900 or with an Android handset, you dont. | 18:01 |
| hiemanshu | sure but a java stack on a linux kernel, a living hell :P | 18:02 |
| Choom | though I haven't heard good things about the android marketplace | 18:02 |
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| jonwil | Yeah, Android is nowhere near as good from a development point of view as the N900 is IMO | 18:02 |
| lcuk | jonwil, many people will happily use microsoft software since the rest of their business infrastructure is windows too | 18:02 |
| nid0 | fwiw, the android market does have a registration fee for publishers | 18:02 |
| jonwil | At least with Android you can develop, sell, distribute and install software outside of Google and its marketplace | 18:03 |
| lcuk | you can on any device | 18:03 |
| hiemanshu | but needing a 1ghz processor with 512M of RAM just to run stuff decently? | 18:03 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: iPhone? | 18:04 |
| jonwil | Both the iPhone and Windows Phone 7 are locked down | 18:04 |
| lcuk | hiemanshu, if that is the current stock coming out of the factories, why shouldn't it be used? | 18:04 |
| jonwil | and you need to pay money just to develop for them | 18:04 |
| GAN900 | nid0, apparently. See qgil's blog comments. | 18:04 |
| jonwil | Which is why I would never buy either device | 18:04 |
| lcuk | hiemanshu, I tohught linux booted on iphones | 18:04 |
| lcuk | and ipods etc | 18:04 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: like I said the other day, not everything :P | 18:04 |
| lcuk | details | 18:04 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: well I was talking about low priced devices | 18:05 |
| jonwil | You can hack the iPhone but only if you own one of the older models that has known exploits | 18:05 |
| lcuk | lack of motivation from the linux hackers then ;) | 18:05 |
| jonwil | You cant walk in off the street and buy an iPhone/iPod/iPad right now and hack it | 18:05 |
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| lcuk | lazy asses :P | 18:05 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: they are working on it http://www.idroidproject.org/wiki/OpeniBoot | 18:05 |
| lcuk | good! | 18:05 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: they are working on the kernels, and there are barely 8 people in the group working on about 4-5 devices | 18:06 |
| lcuk | hiemanshu, some parts of meego are similar | 18:06 |
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| hiemanshu | lcuk: true, but this is the whole project :P | 18:06 |
| lcuk | roll up your sleeves to any favourite project where you can help | 18:06 |
| lcuk | hiemanshu, if the iphone stuff can work | 18:07 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: I am looking to help, well but I'll be busy with my GSoC till about end of august | 18:07 |
| lcuk | it will be really good to see on identical hardware how we can make meego fly | 18:07 |
| lcuk | what is your gsoc? | 18:07 |
| * lcuk was a mentor in 2009 | 18:07 | |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: Fedora Events System | 18:08 |
| * hiemanshu is a fedora contributor | 18:08 | |
| lcuk | awesome | 18:08 |
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| MoonTiger | hiemanshu, exactly what about he current events system isnt good? | 18:09 |
| lcuk | are the fedora app catalogues installable on meego netbook? | 18:09 |
| hiemanshu | I dont have a netbook to try it on :/ | 18:09 |
| * hiemanshu is a poor student | 18:09 | |
| lcuk | because people are wanting a regular set of desktop apps on their meego builds | 18:09 |
| lcuk | office and stuff | 18:09 |
| MoonTiger | hiemanshu, ahhhhhh i found it ... a web app | 18:10 |
| MoonTiger | got it | 18:10 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: I'll need to get a decent netbook first to try it | 18:10 |
| lcuk | get an ideapad :) | 18:10 |
| lcuk | nice little devices | 18:10 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: please donate :) | 18:11 |
| lcuk | 1024*600 capacitive multitouch too | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK | is it powervr? | 18:11 |
| lcuk | I have places in my house for about 4 linked ones | 18:11 |
| hiemanshu | I am a student, dont expect me to have a lot of stuff | 18:11 |
| lcuk | no, atom | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | it is nice though | 18:11 |
| GAN900 | OK, this seems like pretty firm signal. | 18:11 |
| lcuk | and battery lasts forever | 18:11 |
| lcuk | GAN900, how do you find your ideapad? | 18:11 |
| GAN900 | Announce Harmattan, stock goes up | 18:12 |
| GAN900 | Announce WP7 prototype, stock goes back down. | 18:12 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, shit. | 18:12 |
| ShadowJK | atom comes with either intel graphics, nvidia ion, or powervr in disguise | 18:12 |
| lcuk | really | 18:12 |
| GAN900 | Crap TN panels on convertable netbooks are worthless. | 18:12 |
| khertan | GAN900: i didn't see a problem with that :) | 18:12 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, ahh yes | 18:12 |
| lcuk | but I dont use 3d so don't notice | 18:12 |
| ShadowJK | but you need 3d for meego | 18:13 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, liqbase runs smoother on n900 than the ideapad! | 18:13 |
| ShadowJK | also, I searched for ideapad, results in order of poularity: core i5, Pentium U5400, Turion II N530, core i5, core i3, | 18:14 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: about $450 in India, I'll probably get one in a few months | 18:16 |
| khertan | where is liqbase for n900 ? | 18:17 |
| khertan | it s not in the repo, isn't it ? | 18:17 |
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| lcuk | khertan, i am not very good at packaging so I am just trying to keep repository updated, hold on I have meego instructions | 18:22 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liqbase.from.scratch.MeeGo.txt | 18:22 |
| lcuk | the repositories and instructions work on maemo | 18:23 |
| lcuk | they need tweaking and stuff, but have remained unchanged and in principle work on the n8x0 directly too | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: did I understand that as support when you meant "++ if possible" ? | 18:23 |
| lcuk | with enough disk space liqbase is buildable on device happily | 18:23 |
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| lcuk | yes DocScrutinizer, I think having an amount of technical knowledge around enhances the channel | 18:24 |
| lcuk | like was just done with the keyboard backlights | 18:24 |
| lcuk | :) you are a regular and knowledgable member of this community | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: so you might consider how you could maybe help | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm definitely not expecting anything to come from quim | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you got a better idea, I'm all ears | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought about asking konttori | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe you can investigate what's the true situation inside about that issue, in some private chats | 18:26 |
| lcuk | not really DocScrutinizer | 18:26 |
| lcuk | i have too much family stuff to worry about private chats | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | a pity | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 18:27 |
| lcuk | so just coming in and out of public is easier on my mind for now, but talk about the simple things rather than complexifying it by hostmode stuff | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, if you run into some Nokian that might be a worthy object for interrogations, just remember to ask about schematics and what he thinks about it | 18:28 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, are you trying to get them to release schematics? When has the _ever_ happened from Nokia (besides leaks)? I thought that this would really be considered a dead end, after the run around with the N900 schematics | 18:28 |
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| lcuk | Termana, it is a discussion for technical folks, as important to them as code is to devs | 18:29 |
| lcuk | or bugs for the testers | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: not release, just let me have a look at them | 18:29 |
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| lcuk | lol DocScrutinizer | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: obviously Nokia never will *publish* schematics | 18:31 |
| Termana | lcuk, yes, but unlike bugs and code, Nokia has continuously given the round around with schematics | 18:31 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, what makes you think they are going to change their mind though. Last time they wouldn't let you look at them | 18:32 |
| lcuk | Termana, are there schematics for ferrari cars? | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | shrug | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm just not giving up | 18:32 |
| Termana | lcuk, don't ask me about cars, I am completely clueless about cars. But I would suppose so? | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I feel I can help better when I got them | 18:32 |
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| Termana | For... the electronics? | 18:32 |
| Termana | And I'm sure they have some sort of design documents for their cars | 18:33 |
| Termana | Lets not talk about cars, ok? :p | 18:33 |
| lcuk | Termana, right | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: your sw actually runs on that electronics - I know you don't want to hear that :-P | 18:33 |
| lcuk | but now, we used to get those same documents with hardware | 18:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone happen to know of links to pictures of n950 that can be used in wiki? | 18:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 18:35 |
| Gh0sty | software running on electronics? nonsense! :p | 18:36 |
| Termana | Something tells me, Nokia doesn't care about the fact that computers in the 80s/early 90s came with schematics - I hope this is not the reason you guys are going to give them the second time around | 18:36 |
| Gh0sty | it all runs "in the cloud" :P | 18:36 |
| Termana | When your pushing a car uphill, you don't tell someone to jump in and hit the accelerator | 18:37 |
| Termana | while it's in drive | 18:37 |
| hiemanshu | you tell them to hit the brakes, so you can rest for a while | 18:37 |
| Termana | when the car is facing the people pushing | 18:37 |
| Gh0sty | pushing a car uphill is stupid anyway | 18:37 |
| hiemanshu | so is the software on the cloud | 18:39 |
| * hiemanshu runs | 18:39 | |
| Termana | hiemanshu, I have an application that runs in the cloud | 18:40 |
| Termana | It's called Precipitation | 18:40 |
| Termana | ba dum tsss | 18:40 |
| hiemanshu | Termana: the output is rain, and when its corrupted it outputs hail? | 18:41 |
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| Termana | hiemanshu, nah man. Hail is just one of those bugs that turned out really good because it ruins idiots cars. So I called it a feature instead. | 18:42 |
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| newbie007 | greetings, Does anyone know if the n950 for general public use (opposed to developers) and is it maemo ? | 18:44 |
| hiemanshu | Termana: +1 :D | 18:44 |
| hiemanshu | newbie007: no and yes/no | 18:44 |
| newbie007 | what's the os? | 18:44 |
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| newbie007 | well I guess it's up to the dev huh.. | 18:45 |
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| newbie007 | is maemo now hildon-desktop or some other transisitional state? | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | Harmattan does not have hildon | 18:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Watching Elop makes me want to punch kittens. | 19:03 |
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| nid0 | is the full video up anywhere easy btw? | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.mobile-review.com/fullnews/main/index_eng.shtml?33913#33913 | 19:04 |
| lolcat | Why did they break N9? :/ | 19:05 |
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| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: poor kittens :( | 19:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Elop needs to put his hands down sometimes when he's talking. | 19:07 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Nah, we might get Maggie to shoot him if he keeps it up | 19:14 |
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| Jaffa | http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/6/6a/Mr_Burns_evil.gif | 19:14 |
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| Jaffa | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Mr_Burns.png is better at summing up his subtly | 19:14 |
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| hiemanshu | Jaffa: the hot one from die hard 4.0? | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.fplusd.org/uploads/pics/hgberndanzug.gif | 19:20 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, tweet that yet? | 19:23 |
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| hiemanshu | http://i.imgur.com/SVuh1.png | 19:28 |
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| Choom | that leak is fake | 19:29 |
| Choom | or rather, staged | 19:30 |
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| Choom | let us hope that the win phone ends up being a total failure | 19:30 |
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| nid0 | well its not fake or staged, its not a leak | 19:31 |
| Choom | this serves to show that there are internal tensions inside nokia though | 19:31 |
| nid0 | the ceo of a company announcing the company's new phone publicly to a room full of journalists isnt a "leak" by any stretch of the word's definition | 19:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sure it is - he said don't film this bit. | 19:33 |
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| Cor-Ai | whats the conversation app called if id like to start it from my terminal? | 19:37 |
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| GAN900 | It's like Apple during the 80s | 19:40 |
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| kerio | GAN900: you mean when they kicked steve jobs out? | 19:42 |
| kerio | nokia did the opposite thing though | 19:42 |
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| kerio | instead of fiding a good ceo they hired a bad one | 19:42 |
| hiemanshu | they should have hired me instead :P | 19:43 |
| ThreeM | they hire a trojan horse | 19:43 |
| ThreeM | any person will be better than elop | 19:43 |
| hiemanshu | I'll take that as a compliment :P | 19:43 |
| GAN900 | kerio, pitting Apple against Macintosh. | 19:43 |
| Seablade | So question, has anyone found a source for a replacement logic board for the n900 yet, seeing as how I doubt I can get my hands on the n950 anytime soon, I figured I would try to repair mine one more time, GSM chip seems ot be fried, just get communications error, blah blah, please reboot on every boot of the device | 19:44 |
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| jonwil | Only way would be to either buy another N900 or to find someone with a broken N900 (e.g. broken screen) and salvage the logic board from there | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Seablade: resolder the chips | 19:46 |
| Seablade | DocScrutinizerNot completely certain my soldering chops are up to it, but that is my last resort yes | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Seablade: there *are no* replacement boards anymore afaik | 19:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Seablade: some gentle hot air plus preheating on oven should do | 19:47 |
| Seablade | DocScrutinizer Well that is unfortunate | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia themselves don'r repair N900 anymore when they can't fix a small part | 19:48 |
| nid0 | I wonder if theyll change the authorised replacement from n8's to n9's when theyre out | 19:48 |
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| jonwil | In both cases when my N900 broke, it was replaced rather than repaired | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if Nokia can't swap boards, I doubt you can find one | 19:49 |
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| jonwil | with a new N900 | 19:49 |
| jonwil | once was for the USB | 19:49 |
| jonwil | and the other was for a busted flexboard | 19:49 |
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| Seablade | Yea unfortunatly in the US with the single year warranty, otherwise I would have sent it back | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | busted flexboard normally gets repaired by swapping the flexboard | 19:50 |
| jonwil | in my case they seemed to replace it rather than repair | 19:50 |
| jonwil | or thats what the info I got from nokia indicated | 19:50 |
| jonwil | in the case of the busted USB they fixed it very quickly | 19:50 |
| jonwil | and just said that a busted USB = automatic replacement no matter what | 19:51 |
| Seablade | Yea busted USB hasn't hit me but that I am fairly confident in my abilities to resolder, Surface mount chips on the other hand not so confident | 19:51 |
| jonwil | Since that happened, I am now VERY careful with the N900 and if I have the charger plugged in, I make sure the phone is somewhere where its impossible for it to be knocked to the ground | 19:52 |
| Seablade | I do a fair amount of sodlering, but the smallest I get is miniature plugs and jack typically for wireless mics and the like, this is a bit smaller;) | 19:52 |
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| * Seablade contemplates using a toaster to remelt the existing solder as he doesn't have a hot air gun... probably a bad idea:) | 19:54 | |
| Seablade | PS Don't let me interrupt the Elop bashing either for the record;) | 19:54 |
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| * loft306 has used a toaster or a hotplate to reploadwhole boards... i but i wouldnt do it to it to my 900 if it hosed the usb port but thats just me | 19:57 | |
| loft306 | *refloat | 19:57 |
| Seablade | loft306: Yea but in this case the USB port is fine, it is the GSM chip that is seemingly having problems | 19:57 |
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| loft306 | tet | 19:58 |
| loft306 | heh | 19:58 |
| Seablade | loft306: It actually worked for you? Did you wrap in foil or anything? | 19:58 |
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| loft306 | thot air gun? realy small one? | 19:58 |
| loft306 | *hot | 19:58 |
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| Seablade | loft306: Nah toaster is what I was referring to | 19:58 |
| loft306 | i know | 19:59 |
| Seablade | loft306: No hot air gun available to me at this time sadly | 19:59 |
| loft306 | just thinking ot other ways to do it without refloating the whole thing | 19:59 |
| lardman | hmm, that was a long day | 19:59 |
| jonwil | I know lots of people have used toasters and things to heat up and re-solder things like Xbox 360s and PS3s but I have never heard of it being done to something like a N900 before | 19:59 |
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| lardman | any exciting new news today, I've spent all day by a windtunnel | 20:07 |
| lardman | ? | 20:07 |
| javispedro | lardman: elop announcing a wp7 device | 20:07 |
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| lardman | javispedro: I said exciting ;) | 20:08 |
| RST38h | lardman: Elop confirmed in an interview that N9 will be absolutely LAST Meego/Maemo device independently on its success | 20:08 |
| javispedro | everytime I see him doing a move, the more I think he's a chessmaster and this is a trap | 20:08 |
| lardman | RST38h: well that is rubbish | 20:08 |
| RST38h | lardman: And leaked WP device photos show basically an N9 with WP | 20:08 |
| lardman | WP? | 20:08 |
| lardman | Windows Phone? | 20:08 |
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| MoonTiger | lardman, thats what i thought too | 20:08 |
| RST38h | lardman: Also there is a nice fake letter from Sean Connery (circa 1989) telling Steve Jobs to fuck off with his advertising proposal | 20:10 |
| lardman | :) | 20:10 |
| RST38h | lardman: Not sure if it can soothe the Elop-caused disappointment though | 20:11 |
| lardman | no, that's true | 20:11 |
| lardman | I feel sorry for the people who are employed at Nokia doing Linuxy stuff though | 20:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Insanity | 20:12 |
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| hiemanshu | which is why I made http://i.imgur.com/SVuh1.png | 20:13 |
| javispedro | he's not insane | 20:13 |
| javispedro | this is all a master plan | 20:13 |
| javispedro | and a big trap | 20:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | He kinda sounds like Al Gore | 20:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | "I'm super serial. Turn off your cameras." | 20:14 |
| RST38h | General: Sounds like a typical American idiot on a mission | 20:15 |
| RST38h | General: The one defining feature is inability to listen | 20:15 |
| lardman | sounds like my mother in law ;) | 20:16 |
| hiemanshu | He is obama of the Phone world | 20:16 |
| frals | hmm, did someone ping me? scrollback is a bit long | 20:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Not since you last spoke | 20:17 |
| SpeedEvil | (unless I was discoed) | 20:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh | 20:18 |
| frals | ok, irssi claimed highlight but cant remember if i was on from proxy since | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: the N900 screen does okay in sunlight GenralAntilles: The Nokians seem to think it does OK. GenerlAntilles: We discussed it with frals earlier and he said he hasn't had any problems. | 20:18 |
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| kaari | hi, anyone got work usb speakers with n900, just fixed n8 micro-usb2usb line to work with n900, and installed usb host to n900. Now i get it to turn speakers on, but no sound. Think its how to make sound to go through usb to speakers. Probaly not easy, but do you have any suggestions? Tried mplayer and other things, still hoping that someone have had it working. | 20:18 |
| Seablade | Hmm 3 Minutes in a toaster on high in aluminum foil.... lets see how my n900 does now;) | 20:19 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: cheers | 20:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | frals: Would you happen to have links to any n9/n950 pictures/pictures from said devices. | 20:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lies | 20:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I had nothing to do with that. | 20:19 |
| kaari | I'd would save my juhannus | 20:19 |
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| * SpeedEvil is trying to update the wiki, and can't find any cc-by pics | 20:20 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, except he's Canadian. | 20:21 |
| javispedro | he's surely been bastardized by the year he spent at MS | 20:22 |
| lardman | long day, am going to head home | 20:22 |
| nid0 | I still reckon it's all an evil plot by juniper to get into software and phones | 20:23 |
| jonwil | hmmm, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html is interesting reading | 20:23 |
| lardman | will try to catch you chaps tomorrow before another windtunnel stint | 20:23 |
| lardman | have a nice evening all! | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I'm pretty sure all Canadians come that way. *g* | 20:23 |
| javispedro | cya lardman ! | 20:23 |
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| jonwil | to see just how much of Harmattan is new and how much of it is updated versions of maemo packages | 20:23 |
| Seablade | well 3 minutes is not enough, lets move on to 5 | 20:23 |
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| frals | SpeedEvil: sorry, n | 20:26 |
| frals | no* | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 20:26 |
| javispedro | evil mr.burn-looking canadians! | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Thanks. | 20:26 |
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| frals | (in a car heading for the bush so losing 3g all the time) | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | kaari: you need the proper usb soundcard kernel driver | 20:27 |
| Jaffa | frals: You want to use SSH+screen+irssi and your N950's keyboard | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi jonwil - long time no see | 20:28 |
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| jonwil | Still using my N900, still havent had the time or inspiration to do any actual dev for it :) | 20:29 |
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| jonwil | Right now I want to get Findmine working again, it wont work even after uninstalling it with package manager and reinstalling it | 20:29 |
| jonwil | and restarting the device several times | 20:29 |
| kaari | ok Doc, tell newbie hot to go forward | 20:29 |
| jonwil | just starts and then immediatley closes | 20:30 |
| jonwil | I wish I could find out why its closing | 20:30 |
| kaari | do i have to turn kenrnel myself | 20:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 1st round of community N950s go out next week. | 20:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully to the right people. | 20:33 |
| frals | Jaffa: i am, with horrible latency ;) | 20:33 |
| Seablade | Well if nothing else I have successfully burnt off all the dust on the board somehow;) | 20:36 |
| Seablade | Well not all, but seemingly a good amount, certainly looks cleaner anyways | 20:37 |
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| jonwil | YAY, my FindMine problem was a corrupted config file | 20:42 |
| jonwil | now it works again :) | 20:42 |
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| divan_ | How to install package from SDK repository into sysroot for using with Madde/QtCreator? (Fremantle) | 20:49 |
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| divan_ | Some posts on tmo says there is no way to install packages into the sysroot. But don't really belive it.. how to develop apps which link to another libraries? | 20:50 |
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| gri_ | divan_: You can extract the .deb files yourself to the madde sysroot. Or use scratchbox sdk | 20:52 |
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| divan_ | gri_, thanks.. | 20:53 |
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| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, did qgil say that somewhere? | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | MohammadAG, what, about the bluetooth keyboard support? | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/#comment-2426 | 21:01 |
| lolcat | GeneralAntilles: It sucks, no kb | 21:02 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: you know that qgil might be very meaning "you pair a keyboard after hiring a hacker to implement missing support for it" ;) | 21:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doubt it. | 21:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Could be, but doubt it. | 21:03 |
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| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, no, N950s going out next week | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | On the MeeGo forum | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't feel like sourcing it. | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | In the N950 devkit thread. | 21:04 |
| kaari | kaari: you need the proper usb soundcard kernel driver. anyone no how to make this to happen? | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | "So what could the N9 disrupt? Well, so far it’s done a number on the MeeGo and Maemo communities, http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&authuser=0&source=hp&q=N9+site%3Atalk.maemo.org&pbx=1&oq=N9+site:talk.maemo.org&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=10583l12301l1l9l7l1l0l0l0l345l1406l0.3.2.1l6&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=47abf8ce1604813c&biw=1077&bih=606." | 21:04 |
| javispedro | failed to find it =) | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | --Texrat | 21:04 |
| Seablade | Ok 7 minutes and no change, I suppose keep moving up, but might not have time to right now | 21:05 |
| * MohammadAG hopes he gets a device :/ | 21:05 | |
| MohammadAG | Planning to take the best of Fremantle and rewrite it in Harmattan's context | 21:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=22785&postcount=3 | 21:05 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: hum? | 21:05 |
| MohammadAG | simple-brightness-applet would be the first thing in mind | 21:06 |
| javispedro | ah, you mean the best community apps? | 21:06 |
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| javispedro | "the best from fremantle " looks like if you want to port hildon ;) | 21:06 |
| javispedro | but maybe that's because I'm still heavily biased =) | 21:07 |
| javispedro | the meego forum thread about n9devkit also proves how little devices there are | 21:08 |
| Seablade | So I know this is going to be a loaded question, but is there likely to be another way other than the Maemo Community Program to get a hold of the n950? I actually do some coding myself and wouldn't mind coding for Harmattan/Meego on a few things but my time is limited right now so I don't feel quite appropriate doing a loan style program like that | 21:08 |
| javispedro | you see jaffa saying "hopefully oldtimers are considered" and a few posts after it someone saying "hopefully newbies will be considered" | 21:08 |
| javispedro | I bet we will see in the next hours oldtimers thanking jaffa's post and newcomers thanking that other guy's post =) | 21:09 |
| MoonTiger | Seablade, not currently afaik | 21:09 |
| MoonTiger | apparently there are only 250 of them on planet earth | 21:09 |
| divan_ | gri_, simple extraction of deb package doesn't handle dependencies check on dpkg-buildpackage step :/ And mad dpkg -i seems not to work. | 21:10 |
| javispedro | divan_: madde is designed for apps that crossbuild nicely, sbox is designed for the rest | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I'm no old timer but I thanked his post :p | 21:10 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: you are an old timer by now | 21:10 |
| javispedro | really :D | 21:11 |
| divan_ | javispedro, yep, but what if I don't want to move to sbox only because I need one small package? | 21:11 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: A real shame to be honest | 21:12 |
| javispedro | divan_: extract the package with dpkg -x, and make dpkg-buildpackage ignore build deps (see manpage) | 21:12 |
| javispedro | divan_: but this only really works for very very small packages... if it has any scripts, or symlinks, or sth.... go sbox. | 21:12 |
| MoonTiger | Seablade, wel if you look at nokia's history it really shouldn't be a surprise that they manage to completely f**k up the child of the N900 too eh? | 21:13 |
| divan_ | javispedro, ok, thanks. | 21:13 |
| MoonTiger | i mean i cant see how the N950 is any good for develping for the N9 anyways | 21:13 |
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| jonwil | if you want to develop for the N9, get a N9 | 21:14 |
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| kaari | So, theres many people ready to code to meego, could you pass this problem to meego developers. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1000405 | 21:14 |
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| divan_ | And of course, there is not way to change dpkg-buildpackage arguments within QtCreator. Erhh.. | 21:17 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: True. Personally I don't mind developing for them, but it is really the preference for the form factor that would make me want to get the 950, without a hardware keyboard the n9 has a large strike against it compared to the n900 for me, and in which case I may as well just stick with the n900 | 21:18 |
| divan_ | s:not way:no way: | 21:18 |
| MoonTiger | Seablade, im sticking with my N900 as well | 21:18 |
| kaari | same for me, if cannot get n950 | 21:18 |
| jonwil | as am I | 21:18 |
| MoonTiger | if a N950 type device did launch with comparable specs to the N9 plus a hardware keyboard i would buy one | 21:18 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: My only thing is I have been holding off on replacing the n900 I am trying to fix till they announced the n950, and now that they did and that noone is going to be able to get it it means I gotta make a decision sadly | 21:19 |
| MoonTiger | N900s are cheaper these days | 21:19 |
| MoonTiger | but i hear you | 21:19 |
| MoonTiger | i think this is actually part of the plan to kill of maemo from nokia | 21:20 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: Cheaper yes, but $350 for a used one when I am trying to close on a house is VERY tough | 21:20 |
| MoonTiger | to completely fragment and fracture the community | 21:20 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: While I am not accepting that yet, I am not counting it out either | 21:20 |
| ShadowJK | kaari: you'd be better off linking a post with patch instead of binary kernel modules that don't show what changes have been made and dont work on meego | 21:20 |
| MoonTiger | Seablade, i got one in as-new condition from the US recently | 21:21 |
| MoonTiger | for $300 | 21:21 |
| MoonTiger | roughly 200 GBP | 21:21 |
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| Seablade | MoonTiger: Yea, I can get them in good condition used from Amazon, which is probably what I will have to do as I can cash in credit card rewards to cut down the price significantly... of course if the decision comes down to new phone or working fridge in the house I am buying, guess which one I am choosing:) | 21:21 |
| MoonTiger | heh yah i hear you | 21:22 |
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| rm_work | <MohammadAG> simple-brightness-applet would be the first thing in mind | 21:25 |
| MoonTiger | whats wrong with your N900 btw? | 21:25 |
| rm_work | MohammadAG: well, I'm doing ABL | 21:25 |
| rm_work | so there's that :P | 21:25 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: The fun Communication Error, reboot device, never use it as a cell phone again | 21:25 |
| rm_work | not to discourage competition though, as they have two very different audiences | 21:25 |
| MoonTiger | dont know that one ... what causes it? | 21:25 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: Most commonly seems to be a hardware failure, a broken connection somewhere | 21:26 |
| * MoonTiger sighs | 21:26 | |
| MoonTiger | that sux | 21:26 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: But apparently from some people is is software, just not for most and not for me | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pff, who needs fridge | 21:26 |
| MoonTiger | i had (still do in fact) an N810 and that was fun | 21:26 |
| rm_work | Seablade: yeah, I know what you mean about having to choose between a commonly used household appliance and a flashy phone :( but i'm sure your family will get used to using only dried or freshly bought foods | 21:27 |
| MoonTiger | could always bluetooth for a GSM connection | 21:27 |
| rm_work | Docscrutinizer: ^^ | 21:27 |
| MoonTiger | rm_work, lol | 21:27 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: I sitll have my n700 and n800, just came across both the other day as we pack:) | 21:27 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: My wife's n900 still works fine as well, just mine has died | 21:27 |
| MoonTiger | yah i want to build a beowulf cluster with my spare devices one day | 21:27 |
| MoonTiger | running a modified haiku os | 21:28 |
| MoonTiger | :) | 21:28 |
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| Seablade | Actually I am seriously considering whether I want to build a small app to do home automation through an ISYS Insteon/X10 programmable module | 21:28 |
| Seablade | Both the n700 and n800 would be great for it | 21:28 |
| MoonTiger | welp gotta go... festival here and beach parties happening tonight with fires on the beaches and fireworks etc | 21:29 |
| Seablade | MoonTiger: Have fun | 21:30 |
| MoonTiger | :) thnx | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MoonTiger: (beowulf) we cdonsidered that at OM for the remaining few thousand FR that never will sell | 21:31 |
| Seablade | Gotta go set a stage for rehearsal myself, then back to do a 10 minute bake in a toaster to see if that fixes this... | 21:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So, first thing we need to do is a shortcut swipe to the app switch | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | er | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | or maybe a shortcut swipe to the last application | 21:32 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: There is already that. | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh? | 21:33 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Swipe to the right -> open apps. | 21:33 |
| X-Fade | Ehm from right to left. | 21:33 |
| X-Fade | And last used app is on top. | 21:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Need one for a quick alt-tab kinda thing. | 21:33 |
| X-Fade | Well, that is just swipe, click on the app :) | 21:34 |
| ShadowJK | One for "open new browser window" and immediately switch to something else while waiting for page to load | 21:34 |
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| ShadowJK | maybe there's "Open link in background", but i have doubts they'd add any useful features.. | 21:35 |
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| biston | good morning, can somebody please have a look at this -> http://stirkbin.com/b11148 | 21:43 |
| biston | i'm getting high cpu activity regularly even when i'm not using the phone | 21:43 |
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| biston | and when i receive an sms/email and i click on the bottom left corner to skip the message, the phone takes about 2 minutes to clear that message and mark it as read | 21:44 |
| cehteh | greetings from trackerd | 21:44 |
| biston | is this happening with anybody else? | 21:44 |
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| andre__ | biston, lots of images on the device? | 21:44 |
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| biston | yea, lots of thumbnails that got placed there from apps i guess | 21:45 |
| biston | could that be the only problem causing all this? | 21:45 |
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| biston | dbus-daemon is used by top ? | 21:47 |
| cehteh | nope | 21:48 |
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| biston | i just cleared about 3000 pics | 21:50 |
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| merlin1991 | n900 camera automatic doing stuff: http://imagebin.org/159671 | 21:59 |
| merlin1991 | check the traffic lights, lol | 21:59 |
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| nox- | a blueish green... | 22:03 |
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| merlin1991 | nox-: yeah | 22:05 |
| merlin1991 | currently theres heavy clouds outside and everyhting is in a rather brow light | 22:05 |
| merlin1991 | like you'd get with old movies | 22:05 |
| merlin1991 | kinda | 22:05 |
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| merlin1991 | but no I can't capture the awseome moment, somethings filters it to a "normal" pic :/ | 22:06 |
| merlin1991 | s/brow/brown/ | 22:07 |
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| kaari | ShadowJK: didnt you read the thread, it concern both maemo and meego. For me is it to make boot from n900 to meego using uboot. what i read, its problem with some mmc cards anfd needs fix kernel module? | 22:14 |
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| ShadowJK | kaari, I just pasted this in the meego-arm channel, and the reply was "If you're seeing a bug, please make a bugreport" | 22:16 |
| ShadowJK | I don't have a class 10 card though, so I can't test MeeGo on class 10. | 22:16 |
| kaari | jeps, i try it. already sing-up to meego community, but kind of newbie to make bugreport. but i will try. this concern too maemo. | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | There will be no official fix for Maemo. | 22:18 |
| kaari | with my class 4 card everythings works fine, but with class10 i get read-only state. starnge | 22:19 |
| kaari | dont need | 22:19 |
| kaari | jeps, i should be in meego irc channel to tell it, infact im. but first time they didnt really take me serious. | 22:20 |
| ShadowJK | What brand is your card? | 22:21 |
| kaari | kingston | 22:21 |
| ShadowJK | ah. | 22:21 |
| kaari | and have been contcact with support and used several tools for the card | 22:21 |
| kaari | the card is working | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | kingston cards are broken by design :-) | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | and pretty random. Not even kingston themselves know what components were used | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | they no own factories | 22:22 |
| kaari | and maybe, but it works everyother things nut not booting meego on n900 | 22:22 |
| kaari | and i think i found the answer | 22:23 |
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| kaari | and if you read the trhread its some guy from texas instruments who make solution | 22:24 |
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| kaari | i paid 100 euros for the card, thats sad | 22:25 |
| kpoman | hello ! | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | wtf! | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | big card? | 22:26 |
| kaari | 16 g | 22:26 |
| kpoman | can someone help me bit with a noob thing ? I see there is a chromium package. however a search (apt-cache search chromium) doesnt give anything. why is that ??? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/chromium/5.0.369.2-maemo2/ | 22:26 |
| kaari | somthing like 5 months ago | 22:27 |
| kaari | is there chromium for maemo? | 22:27 |
| kpoman | yep, quite old | 22:27 |
| kaari | then use opera :( | 22:27 |
| kpoman | kaari: I wanna try chromium. I am quite impressed right now with it | 22:28 |
| kpoman | I used to use firefox, but on n900 it sucks. | 22:28 |
| kpoman | and now on desktop, also, chromium is much faster than ff | 22:28 |
| kaari | dont you like default webbrowser | 22:29 |
| kpoman | and version 5 of ff is not cool | 22:29 |
| nox- | merlin1991, i guess the n900 camera app doesnt allow for manual white balancing? | 22:29 |
| * ShadowJK uses opera on n900 | 22:29 | |
| kpoman | microb ? not much | 22:29 |
| kpoman | it is good yes | 22:29 |
| merlin1991 | nox-: it does but for some reason that didn't work out either | 22:29 |
| kpoman | but chromium must be better :p | 22:29 |
| kpoman | at least on android chromium rocks | 22:29 |
| kaari | its best for almost all, but then i use opere also | 22:29 |
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| nox- | merlin1991, :/ | 22:29 |
| kpoman | kaari: the question is, why http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/chromium/5.0.369.2-maemo2/ doesnt show here ? | 22:30 |
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| cehteh | ShadowJK: you put your charge script offline? :) | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | did I? | 22:31 |
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| kaari | oko, maybe i test it | 22:31 |
| cehteh | maybe i pasted a wrong url got 404 | 22:31 |
| cehteh | but well i had it here already and running it now | 22:31 |
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| ShadowJK | charge21.sh.txt ? | 22:31 |
| cehteh | lets see if i improve it maybe rewrite it in C | 22:32 |
| cehteh | ah works .. i tried without .txt | 22:32 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: copyright claims | 22:32 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: it's in my onw repository | 22:32 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: oh ! do you know where to get it ? | 22:32 |
| kaari | but micrb does it fot me, and wht i lags i uose opera. but now im installning chromium. maybe you could get iron browser to turn they code to arm | 22:32 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: how do I add it ? is it a new version ? | 22:33 |
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| jacekowski | kpoman: no it's same old version | 22:33 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: eventually i am thinking to backoff the charge current when charge stop because of insufficient voltage and then restart charging | 22:33 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: newer one doesnt compile ? | 22:33 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: since opera was released i stopped all work on chromium | 22:33 |
| cehteh | and run as realtime process | 22:33 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: opera is much better | 22:33 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: it is good yes | 22:34 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: do you have other stuff on your repo ? | 22:34 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: but if you want to try it, deb http://maemo.jacekowski.org/ fremantle free non-free | 22:34 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: where do I add that line ? | 22:34 |
| cehteh | also integrating dbus messages as bme does and configureable low level battery warning | 22:34 |
| cehteh | but no time now | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | cehteh, actually haven't had any single event where not being realtime has had an impact :-) | 22:34 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ | 22:35 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: let me see | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: create file in that folder | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: and add that line there | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | On N8x0 it would be dangerous, because without software control the hardware runs amok | 22:35 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: yes its more a gimmick .. under extreme load it may save you from not pinging the watchdog | 22:35 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: ok cool | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: only other program in that repository is program reseting lock code to 12345 | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah it's never missed a ping so far | 22:35 |
| cehteh | it sleeps most of the time so there is no danger | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: if you forget it | 22:36 |
| ShadowJK | probably because it's tiny :P | 22:36 |
| cehteh | well tried it under real extreme load with much things swapped out? | 22:36 |
| ShadowJK | and busybox is tiny too :) | 22:36 |
| ShadowJK | been up to about 400M swap use | 22:36 |
| cehteh | prolly the device already prioritizes root processes with cgroups .. but better safe than sorry | 22:36 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: no it doesnt | 22:36 |
| ShadowJK | mostly other maemo kernel bugs kill the device first though | 22:36 |
| cehteh | huh you have /bin/bash on top not busybox | 22:36 |
| kaari | Nobody, knows how to get touch in with n950, like James Bond | 22:36 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: ok ! | 22:36 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: i don't think there is support for cgroups in stock kernel | 22:36 |
| ShadowJK | there is | 22:37 |
| ShadowJK | /syspart | 22:37 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: iirc ohmd uses cgroups | 22:37 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: do you know of the most complete list of repos ? | 22:37 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: nope | 22:37 |
| kpoman | for example I had missed that one yours | 22:37 |
| cehteh | (or whats the profile watching thing) | 22:37 |
| kpoman | np | 22:37 |
| cehteh | the thing which uses prolog under the hood to tune the device | 22:37 |
| ShadowJK | ohmd | 22:38 |
| cehteh | yes | 22:38 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: did you have many steps for compiling it ? apart from the scratchbox | 22:38 |
| cehteh | so that uses cgroups | 22:38 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: if you want we can make a list of 'todo' someday for what a better bme needs apart from the charger control (dbus messages etc) | 22:39 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: quite a bit | 22:39 |
| cehteh | maybe DocScrutinizer will be there then | 22:39 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: lot of stuff there was arm unfriendly | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 22:39 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: like js JUT | 22:40 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: oh but even if it is available also for android ? | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | JIT* | 22:40 |
| cehteh | haha waekup call | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you summoned me? | 22:40 |
| ShadowJK | bq27200.sh needs to be turned into C and/with a gui.. :P | 22:40 |
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| jacekowski | kpoman: there is no chrome for android | 22:40 |
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| kpoman | oh ? | 22:40 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i am thinking (slow brainstorming) what better bme (charge21.sh maybe rewritten in C) would need | 22:40 |
| kpoman | their browser isnt crhome ? | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: no | 22:41 |
| kpoman | ah didnt know that | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: it is something else | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: an API in /sys | 22:41 |
| kpoman | ok | 22:41 |
| cehteh | see backlog .. most notably generating bme compatible dbus message, but having more freedom for configuration | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/2/28/494 | 22:41 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: no kernel changes :P | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | then forget it | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: i'm not even sure it's webkit based | 22:41 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: well i want to have it useable on stock kernel too | 22:42 |
| cehteh | and i dont have the time and a spare device to burn :) | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: only work i've done on maemo port of it was to make it compile and work, and then fix some most serious bugs | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | well then you need a kernel module working on stock kernel, that you can load for supporting proper battery anagement, and rmmod for using old bme crap | 22:43 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: ok... | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: but N900 is bit low on memory for anything like that | 22:43 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yeah may work .. but then kernel development is more pita than userland | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I'm happy to help out with auditing and specs | 22:43 |
| cehteh | and it still needs a userland daemon for the events | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's be a good design | 22:44 |
| cehteh | i am pragmatic here :) | 22:44 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: do you think it would be interesting to re-port it now that it is so fast ? :p | 22:44 |
| cehteh | i just thinking about adding the missing bits to charge21.sh | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: opera is faster | 22:45 |
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| jacekowski | kpoman: and chrome uses now even more memory | 22:45 |
| kpoman | kpoman: ok :s | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: and that is major problem on n900 | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | pragmatic? the forget about it, it's not worth the effort, if you want to do botch that can't go next rev even, not to mention upstream | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: on n9 it may work | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: but it's not released yet | 22:45 |
| cehteh | has the n9 n950 the same bme crap? | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | dunno yet | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | possibly | 22:46 |
| cehteh | i mean, i dont care for upstream i want something working for me now | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | bme was with us for few years | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | BME has it's roots in rapuyama | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: probably yes | 22:46 |
| cehteh | is the n9 kernel completely open? | 22:46 |
| cehteh | no one knows :P | 22:46 |
| cehteh | would be awesome if its even a vanilla kernel .. but *cough* .. i have high doubts | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd think it's completely open as usual | 22:47 |
| cehteh | haha and lets see how old it will be .. 2.6.32? ... | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | we had no closed kernel bits on fremantle either | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, exactly | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2.6.32 I heard | 22:48 |
| cehteh | the n8xx kernels and before had some closed parts people told me | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | not in kernel, not for fremantle | 22:48 |
| cehteh | not freemantle but before | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | they managed to implement all the blobs in userland | 22:49 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: 2.6.32 is good version | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and there are quite a few blobs still | 22:49 |
| cehteh | .28 was good too | 22:49 |
| cehteh | but dated :) as .32 will be when the device comes out | 22:49 |
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| * DocScrutinizer adores dated kernels | 22:50 | |
| cehteh | well doesnt it use btrfs? | 22:50 |
| cehteh | btrfs isnt even in 3.0 stable | 22:50 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: older kernels tend to be faster | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | you finally got to know each sysfs path by heart, etc etc | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a properly maintaned aged kernel is way better than bleeding edge | 22:51 |
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| cehteh | yes | 22:51 |
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| cehteh | but .. well .. some things eventually improve in newer kernels | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | rarely seen anything *essetial* though, esp nothing that couldn't get backported | 22:52 |
| cehteh | and with this devices and nokias politics there is no much an kernel upgrade path | 22:52 |
| cehteh | backporting things over about 10 kernel versions would be pita | 22:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | doesn't matter. What really sucks is when your userland blows chunks on the new stuff | 22:53 |
| cehteh | yes | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know boxes that happily run 4 year old kernels | 22:54 |
| cehteh | my server :P | 22:54 |
| * cehteh runs | 22:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not like kernels actually bitrot, you just have to keep them up to date with current threats | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and patches to fix those | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're starting to be screwed when you want to install acme-app-Vtomorow++ which uses all that ultra new cute stuff | 22:56 |
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| ric31 | hello | 22:57 |
| ric31 | i need your help | 22:57 |
| ric31 | i am connect to my N900 via ssh from ubuntu pc | 22:58 |
| ric31 | and i would like save my ohone contact | 22:58 |
| ric31 | but i don t know where is repertory or file | 22:59 |
| ric31 | can you help me | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | export to vcard | 22:59 |
| kaari | make backup | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | contacts app GUI -> menu -> export | 23:00 |
| ric31 | yes but i would like keep on the pc | 23:00 |
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| ric31 | ok i try thanks | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno how to export to vcard via PC, maybe use vnc? ;-D | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course you also can copy the contacts.db file, but that's hard to read out on your PC I guess | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could copy it back any time though | 23:01 |
| newbie007 | what is the format of the file? | 23:02 |
| newbie007 | sqlite? | 23:02 |
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| kpoman | jacekowski: ok, I tested it. it is really good port ! | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | berkley afaik | 23:03 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: sad you discontinued it | 23:03 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: because it works great, fast scroll, youtube, javascript, etc... | 23:03 |
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| ric31 | ok i have save my contact in file name.vcf | 23:04 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: opera is better | 23:04 |
| ric31 | how can you reinstall after | 23:04 |
| ric31 | on N900 | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | import :-) | 23:05 |
| ric31 | i haven't import choice in menu | 23:06 |
| ric31 | ok sorry i find it | 23:07 |
| ric31 | thanhs | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | get contacts | 23:07 |
| ric31 | thanks | 23:07 |
| ric31 | ok | 23:07 |
| ric31 | thanks doc | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 23:07 |
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| Corsac | hmhm, is tmo not supposed to have https? | 23:08 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: do you have youtube wokring on it ? | 23:08 |
| kpoman | opera I meant | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | kpoman: i don't watch youtube | 23:08 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: oh ok | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | not on phone | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | it takes too long to load | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | and if i'm in wifi range i can use laptop | 23:09 |
| kpoman | jacekowski: ok, it complains about unsupported rtsp | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: are you MAD? this crap transmitted on a secured connection? WTF? | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 23:11 |
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| nid0 | Corsac: maemo.org has ssl, tmo doesnt | 23:12 |
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| *** achipa has joined #maemo | 23:13 | |
| nid0 | that said, ssl on maemo.org's hard to use because whoever set midgard up set everything with hard links | 23:13 |
| RST38h | Soooo | 23:14 |
| RST38h | Anything I missed/ | 23:14 |
| RST38h | ? | 23:14 |
| Corsac | nid0: crap | 23:14 |
| nid0 | not enough's ssl secured tbh | 23:16 |
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| *** flat` has joined #maemo | 23:24 | |
| wazd | woo | 23:24 |
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| wazd | Just came from Linkin Park concert in Moscow :) | 23:24 |
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| RST38h | heya wazd | 23:27 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: lardman|gone : Just realised the http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS doesn't talk *at all* about the build plans/targets. | 23:28 |
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| ric31 | hello | 23:30 |
| ric31 | i come back | 23:30 |
| ric31 | where are location of video | 23:31 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Obviously needs some more info. | 23:31 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Aye. Was it covered yesterday? If not, I'll try and flesh it out tonight | 23:31 |
| ric31 | video that i take with n900 | 23:31 |
| ric31 | i would like save it | 23:32 |
| hiemanshu | nid0: use noscript and force ssl | 23:36 |
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| ric31 | do you know where is the repertory of video on N900 | 23:37 |
| ric31 | i would like to save it via ssh | 23:38 |
| ric31 | on my pc | 23:38 |
| ric31 | under ubuntu | 23:38 |
| hiemanshu | ric31: in /home/user/MyDocs | 23:40 |
| ric31 | i can find video on it | 23:43 |
| ric31 | it s strange | 23:43 |
| ric31 | and i can see via the appli | 23:43 |
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| RST38h | Fun,pure fun: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26921/ | 23:45 |
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| rm_work | ric31: it's in a hidden folder | 23:54 |
| rm_work | ric31: ls -la /home/user/MyDocs | 23:54 |
| rm_work | it's like... /home/user/MyDocs/.video/ | 23:54 |
| rm_work | jacekowski: there's opera for n900 now? | 23:55 |
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| jacekowski | rm_work: yes | 23:57 |
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| jacekowski | rm_work: for like a year or so | 23:57 |
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| rm_work | lol | 23:57 |
| rm_work | how did I not know that? | 23:57 |
| rm_work | i was a huge fan of opera before, and was very disappointed when it went away | 23:58 |
| jacekowski | http://get.opera.com/pub/.custom/campaign/labs/maemo/20100510/opera.install | 23:58 |
| rm_work | errr | 23:58 |
| rm_work | k | 23:58 |
| rm_work | cool | 23:58 |
| rm_work | ok, so, old, but works great i assume? :P | 23:58 |
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| jacekowski | yes | 23:58 |
| mrsellout | 02 | 23:59 |
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