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| NTU | hi! | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| konttori_home | cehteh, otoh, with X in place, putting gtk to run in n9 shouldn't be too much of trouble | 00:00 |
| anidel | konttori_home: great blog post | 00:01 |
| konttori_home | anidel, thanks | 00:01 |
| anidel | thanks to you guys. | 00:01 |
| Arkenoi | so i guess almost all n900 apps will run, except maybe some abandonware | 00:01 |
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| NTU | which kernels have been proved to work with ARM with a root fs on MicroSD? | 00:02 |
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| NTU | 2.6.36.4 i keep getting Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) but with 2.6.32.something it works fine | 00:03 |
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| NTU | same kernel config | 00:03 |
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| DrGrov | Evening | 00:04 |
| NTU | AH HOY! \o | 00:04 |
| NTU | :D | 00:07 |
| anidel | that's weird..the gunzip -qt for the integrity test is fine,but then soon after the tar command says no such file or directory ???? | 00:09 |
| anidel | ah I see I see... /tmp ..mmm | 00:10 |
| konttori_home | Arkenoi, we changed the toolchain, with change in float support. All applications that use floats need to be recomplied, but I've been using many apps directly from fremantle repository. | 00:10 |
| Arkenoi | konttori_home, binary? that's great. it might be also possible to have some LD_PRELOAD wrapper for ones that broke? | 00:11 |
| konttori_home | Yeah. Binaries work fine. And debs. So I have just installed directly from debs that are in the repo. | 00:12 |
| konttori_home | just open terminal, type gainroot, and then start installing the debs. (Oh, and need to seelct the allow installation of unsigned debs from settings) | 00:13 |
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| javispedro | Arkenoi: technically yes. It is absolutely hard though. | 00:15 |
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| javispedro | I did something similar for one topsecret project of mine | 00:15 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wishes we had a ship date. | 00:16 | |
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| anidel | GeneralAntilles: we do... later this year | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | anidel, go die. | 00:17 |
| javispedro | that is a "ship year", not a ship date. | 00:17 |
| RST38h | GAN: Elop will have enough time to cancel it before it ships | 00:17 |
| * anidel obeys | 00:17 | |
| javispedro | omg just keep it quiet then, do not let elop realize what the company he rules is manufacturing | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't believe anybody could look at THAT and say "Man, this is shit. Let's get us some WP7!!" | 00:17 |
| anidel | I still can't believe they didn't believe in MeeGo with this shiny UI | 00:18 |
| anidel | probably the issue for them was to attract commercial apps? | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | These demos look like they absolutely wipe the floor with iOS and Android. | 00:18 |
| javispedro | fakeselop already said that he'll be mad if anyone buys a n9. | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean. | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Holy shit | 00:18 |
| anidel | konttori_home: I guess Harmattan and Fremantle won't coexist peacefully ? | 00:19 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: as I was saying when I played with sdk I have to admit: it feels diferently. | 00:19 |
| konttori_home | anidel, of course they will. | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | anidel, fight to the death. | 00:19 |
| javispedro | maybe it's just because of the forced protrait =). but looks like a different thing. | 00:19 |
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| lolcat | Nokia really made a crap N9 :( | 00:19 |
| anidel | konttori_home: cool , will tell you if all my targets are still there and fine :) | 00:19 |
| konttori_home | Just upload the same source to extras devel of fremantle and harmattan | 00:19 |
| konttori_home | it'll be compiled to both. | 00:19 |
| anidel | it's almost done... | 00:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Portrait focus is stupid | 00:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want a pocket computer, not a phone. | 00:20 |
| anidel | I mean locally | 00:20 |
| Jaffa | konttori_home: Can Maemo 5 backups of Contacts, Calendars and wifi settings be restored in Harmattan? :) | 00:20 |
| Arkenoi | i guess forced portrait mode is temporary | 00:20 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: can you ever decide yourself! first you wanted pervasive portrait support, now you want pervasive landscape support, make up your mind! | 00:21 |
| javispedro | >;P | 00:21 |
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| konttori_home | Contacs and calendar entries are transferred if you use switch. Hmm... and emails afaik. | 00:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I never wanted any such thing! | 00:21 |
| konttori_home | But not wlan settings | 00:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quit putting whines in my mouth! | 00:21 |
| anidel | Xournal on the Fremantle target won't compile anymore :( | 00:21 |
| konttori_home | and the backups are not compatible, so you need to use switch "application" in N9 settings | 00:21 |
| konttori_home | Ten put BT on on both and follow the instructions | 00:22 |
| anidel | configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in "." "./.." "./../.." | 00:22 |
| konttori_home | GeneralAntilles, we made intentionally full landscape support to be a themable element. | 00:22 |
| cehteh | anidel: autoreconf -fi | 00:22 |
| cehteh | (maybe ... ) | 00:22 |
| Jaffa | konttori_home: That didn't work so good between a C7 and a broken USB-ported N900 last week :-/ | 00:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori_home, does the task switcher support landscape? | 00:23 |
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| konttori_home | So, you can create a theme that makes home and lock screens support also landscape | 00:23 |
| Jaffa | konttori_home: But good to know, thanks | 00:23 |
| konttori_home | yeah, it does. ... if you create a theme that asks it to support | 00:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that's not true out of the box? | 00:23 |
| konttori_home | No | 00:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ugh | 00:23 |
| MohammadAG | if the UI is as open as hildon, adding landscape mode shouldn't be hard | 00:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: it is manufacturing money | 00:23 |
| konttori_home | Believe me, we thought about that a lot | 00:23 |
| anidel | cehteh: that generates them, but a dpkg-buildpackage removes them | 00:23 |
| konttori_home | It's the part that we wanted as flawless experience as possible | 00:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro:and Elop is an effective manager that will make it manufacture more money | 00:24 |
| cehteh | anidel: then the rules are borked | 00:24 |
| RST38h | javispedro: by selling it off =) | 00:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Devices that want to dictate how you use them are unfortunate. | 00:24 |
| konttori_home | and supporting both orientations would cause rotation needs when user is looking at switcher | 00:24 |
| anidel | I just installed Harmattan Platform SDK and I think it broke Fremantle | 00:24 |
| konttori_home | and there was no good way to make that look impeckable. So, we made the call to go full out portrait | 00:24 |
| javispedro | anidel: it should not | 00:25 |
| anidel | javispedro: well it did | 00:25 |
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| javispedro | anidel: it is more "isolated" than diablo->fremantle, less chances for breakage ;) | 00:25 |
| javispedro | what's the problem? | 00:25 |
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| konttori_home | So, we decided to make it an option. I think it was the right thing to do. | 00:25 |
| konttori_home | night now all | 00:25 |
| anidel | javispedro: I can't buildpackage anymore | 00:25 |
| javispedro | nite konttori_home , pleased to have you here! | 00:25 |
| javispedro | anidel: error message? | 00:26 |
| anidel | one sec I'll pastebin it | 00:26 |
| javispedro | and are you on x86 or armel? | 00:26 |
| javispedro | o | 00:26 |
| javispedro | k | 00:26 |
| anidel | X86 btw | 00:26 |
| anidel | http://pastebin.com/rpwXAGNk | 00:27 |
| anidel | Line 47: aclocal-1.8 command not found | 00:27 |
| javispedro | uuh. | 00:27 |
| anidel | ah it's 1.9 | 00:27 |
| javispedro | I do have /scratchbox/tools/autotools though | 00:27 |
| anidel | autogen.sh was using -1.8 for aclocal and automake | 00:28 |
| anidel | removed -1.8 and it's working.. | 00:28 |
| javispedro | that find thing doesn't look right either | 00:28 |
| anidel | yeah | 00:28 |
| javispedro | you should try and update the debian devkits to hathor too | 00:28 |
| javispedro | if you did not previously | 00:28 |
| javispedro | I mean the sarge, etc. | 00:28 |
| javispedro | or use the squeeze one for fremantle | 00:29 |
| anidel | didn't touch it for a while :) | 00:29 |
| javispedro | (it also works | 00:29 |
| javispedro | ) | 00:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Did the FCC post the RM-680 manuals yet? | 00:31 |
| javispedro | do they have to? | 00:31 |
| javispedro | also, manuals, pfft. | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Confidentiality is up | 00:32 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Later this week, isn't it? | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno. | 00:34 |
| javispedro | ... Now I only want you gone.... | 00:35 |
| javispedro | that's probably what elop is singing now to Meego. | 00:35 |
| javispedro | ... Go make some new disaster ... | 00:35 |
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| javispedro | I got a bazillion dollars by moving to WP7, ... it's such a shame the same thing won't happen to you ... | 00:38 |
| javispedro | stupid song. | 00:38 |
| javispedro | get out of my head! | 00:38 |
| anidel | so uhm I gues there's an emulator...how do I start it? | 00:38 |
| javispedro | anidel: sbox is not an emulator! | 00:39 |
| javispedro | anidel: enter harmattan_x86 target, start xephyr as usual, | 00:39 |
| anidel | "there is an" not "is an" :P | 00:39 |
| anidel | but yeah.. you're right :p | 00:39 |
| javispedro | export DISPLAY=:2 (usually) | 00:40 |
| javispedro | meego-sb-session start | 00:40 |
| javispedro | enjoy. | 00:40 |
| javispedro | run-standalone.sh seems to have been replaced with meego-run | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | Awww | 00:40 |
| anidel | ah ok | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | I already miss run-standalone.sh | 00:41 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa: I already aliased it ;P | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | Proves it'snot Maemo ;) | 00:41 |
| javispedro | I plan to keep on devving for diablo/fremantle for a while, so muscle memory will suffer if I have to remember to type run-<TAB> or meego-r<TAB> | 00:42 |
| anidel | no meego-sb-session.. need to install some nokia stuff as it was for Fremantle I guess? | 00:42 |
| pwnguin | does maemo5 work with enterprise wpa2? | 00:42 |
| javispedro | anidel: no, I hadn't, everything was on the rootstrap | 00:42 |
| javispedro | anidel: did you an automated install? | 00:42 |
| anidel | it's there... I am running a script, something must be wrong.. let me check | 00:43 |
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| anidel | starting :) | 00:44 |
| pwnguin | "AP denied association (code=12) | 00:44 |
| anidel | the script was selecting FREMANTLE_X86 instead of Harmattan :p | 00:44 |
| javispedro | pwnguin: should. | 00:44 |
| pwnguin | hmm | 00:45 |
| pwnguin | this is new | 00:45 |
| pwnguin | its asking me for a cert password | 00:45 |
| javispedro | stupid Acer. | 00:45 |
| javispedro | me: "I need a driver update to install W7 SP1. MS has blacklisted your driver." Acer: so sue us. | 00:45 |
| pwnguin | ... aaaaand, ive killed the wifi chiop | 00:46 |
| pwnguin | /driver | 00:46 |
| anidel | cool.. everything is up and running.. now I need to work on Xournal to make it run :( | 00:48 |
| javispedro | anidel: was it Gtk+? :) | 00:48 |
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| anidel | javispedro: of course :) | 00:49 |
| javispedro | (I mean, I Know it originally was) | 00:49 |
| javispedro | anidel: plan to rewrite, or...? | 00:49 |
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| pwnguin | "AP denied association (code=17) | 00:50 |
| anidel | javispedro: not sure yet.. but mostly yeah. There's a guy on xournal-dev who rewrote Xournal in C++ but it's still WIP.. I might use that as a base | 00:50 |
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| javispedro | I still need more indoctrination to be able to throw gtk+ code bases ;P | 00:50 |
| anidel | :) | 00:52 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | god | 00:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | when the N9 was being teased | 00:52 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | i was so hoping it would only be in black | 00:52 |
| anidel | I had to port libgnomecanvas to Maemo to make Xournal work. Using the Xournal++ +Qt would save me the hassle | 00:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but the blue variant | 00:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it looks so good | 00:52 |
| javispedro | anidel: you didn't use cairo? | 00:52 |
| javispedro | ah, It wasn't available either back then | 00:53 |
| javispedro | I bet. | 00:53 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it just looks better than black | 00:53 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i dont know why | 00:53 |
| anidel | javispedro: nope as it was the code base from the Nokia 770 | 00:53 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i hate colorful cases | 00:53 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but it just looks better | 00:53 |
| anidel | anyway...it needed a rewrite anyway.. | 00:53 |
| anidel | the whole logic and UI were not separated at all | 00:53 |
| anidel | a bit of a mess | 00:53 |
| anidel | pure C and GTK from the guy who wrote it | 00:54 |
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| anidel | switching to Fremantle meant a huge rewrite of the UI | 00:54 |
| anidel | and now.. again.. but I guess it shall be faster with Qt | 00:54 |
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| anidel | javispedro: this is the idea of next Xournal: https://picasaweb.google.com/anidel/XournalNextGenUI | 00:54 |
| anidel | more or less | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG | planning to use Qt or QML? | 00:55 |
| javispedro | it looks iphoneish ;P | 00:55 |
| anidel | QML possibly | 00:55 |
| javispedro | (which might be good considering the target palatform ;P ) | 00:55 |
| MohammadAG | tsk tsk :P | 00:55 |
| anidel | javispedro: was made by Patricia (Brasil) at the Barcelona event :) | 00:55 |
| anidel | MohammadAG: what? | 00:55 |
| MohammadAG | nothing, I'm just anti-QML :P | 00:56 |
| anidel | why? | 00:56 |
| MohammadAG | high memory usage, way too much stuff to be reimplemented rather than reused | 00:57 |
| anidel | I mean, I now nothing still about QML, QtQuick or pure Qt Widgets.. so :) I'm open to suggestions | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | and I dislike interpretted languages | 00:57 |
| anidel | me too, but it looked cool :P I still have to study it though | 00:57 |
| anidel | that's why the "possibly" | 00:57 |
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| MohammadAG | well, give QML a go at first I suppose | 00:58 |
| anidel | will see | 00:58 |
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| anidel | cool Xournal promoted to Testing... hope to get the 10 votes asap as the Extras version is sooooo oold | 01:00 |
| pigeon | is there an faq about the n9 and n950? i'm actually quite confused about the two. | 01:02 |
| anidel | http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html | 01:03 |
| Arkenoi | n950 is n9 with 4" tft, keyboard, no nfc and black aluminium casing. | 01:03 |
| javispedro | anidel: same as me. | 01:04 |
| javispedro | (not really tried maemo qt, qt quick or qt slow) | 01:04 |
| anidel | :) | 01:04 |
| anidel | time is an issue here | 01:04 |
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| pigeon | anidel Arkenoi thanks | 01:05 |
| javispedro | anidel: yes... it wasn't in n900 days :( | 01:05 |
| javispedro | at least for me. | 01:06 |
| Arkenoi | why no nfc i do not really get | 01:06 |
| divan | a few slightly blurred photos of N950 from presentation in Moscow: http://s54.radikal.ru/i143/1106/c2/0c5cac51365e.jpg http://s014.radikal.ru/i327/1106/01/fc527d975e3e.jpg http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1106/37/6075f653f676.jpg http://s009.radikal.ru/i310/1106/41/f3bf2b482949.jpg | 01:06 |
| anidel | javispedro: for me neither..had much time to dedicate to it... | 01:06 |
| anidel | I mean Xournal is READY NOW... when the N9 is out :) bit late :p | 01:06 |
| anidel | still got 233+k downloads according to the Maemo Downloads page! | 01:06 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:08 |
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| pigeon | sorry but what is nfc? | 01:08 |
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| anidel | Near Field Communication | 01:08 |
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| anidel | gotta go.. later guys | 01:09 |
| pigeon | ah | 01:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | divan, wow that is a large device | 01:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i thought it was a lot thinner than that | 01:10 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | also the N950 is still a primarily portrait device | 01:12 |
| Arkenoi | Sazpaimon_, i think it will be fixed soon | 01:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I hope so, because this: http://mobilenet.cz/obrazek/nokia-n950-62145/ is a little embarrasing | 01:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | oh hey | 01:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | is that a terminal app I spy down there? | 01:13 |
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| Arkenoi | yes, terminal is there | 01:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | http://mobilenet.cz/obrazek/nokia-n950-62157/ also looks like the 12 MP AF text is no more | 01:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | whatever happened to that | 01:14 |
| divan | n950 looks awesome, even without amoled :) | 01:15 |
| wmarone | man | 01:15 |
| wmarone | that looks awesome, too bad it'll be mostly impossible to get :/ | 01:15 |
| javispedro | Sazpaimon_: launcher rotates on SDK here | 01:15 |
| divan | for a few next years that's exactly that phone which we need :) | 01:15 |
| divan | wmarone, I know, yeah | 01:15 |
| wmarone | all the N9's guts, in that case, would be win | 01:16 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | javispedro, what the hell then | 01:16 |
| divan | Elop is bitch | 01:16 |
| wmarone | well, more win than the N9 or N950 alone | 01:16 |
| javispedro | Sazpaimon_: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk1.png | 01:16 |
| divan | He wan't to say at the end of the year - "see, not so many programs and contributions to the harmatta, so we'll close the project" | 01:16 |
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| Shapeshifter | the icons look so silly with those ultra-round corners | 01:17 |
| divan | s/wan't/wants/ | 01:17 |
| infobot | divan meant: He wants to say at the end of the year - "see, not so many programs and contributions to the harmatta, so we'll close the project" | 01:17 |
| Shapeshifter | for kidz | 01:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | s/harmatta/harmattan | 01:17 |
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| Shapeshifter | s/harmattan/manhattan/ amirite | 01:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | elop seems to read engadget comments a lot | 01:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because he specifically mentioned engadget commenters response to the WP7 strategy | 01:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | maybe 2000+ positive comments in less than 24 hours would be nice | 01:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | how about a positive preview from vlad of all people | 01:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | he hates nokia | 01:19 |
| loft306 | eeek! on cnet they say $660 16gb and $749 64gb and availablle at the end of year | 01:20 |
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| divan | Sazpaimon_, twitition on that: http://twitition.com/3c3ah | 01:20 |
| javispedro | Sazpaimon_: elop, where? | 01:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | loft306, those could very well be the EUR prices with tax | 01:20 |
| divan | loft306, it's rumours. Even Nokia insiders do not know the price. | 01:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | there's no way nokia could sell this device for $749 | 01:21 |
| divan | It's the subject for discussions at the moment, as I know. | 01:21 |
| loft306 | justrrepeatiung what i read | 01:21 |
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| loft306 | i wouldnt pay that | 01:21 |
| wmarone | Sazpaimon_: between the two posts there are over 3700 comments | 01:22 |
| Sazpaimon_ | divan, petitions | 01:22 |
| Sazpaimon_ | internet petitions | 01:22 |
| javispedro | omg | 01:22 |
| Sazpaimon_ | find me one internet petition that got something done | 01:22 |
| javispedro | thew new bugs.maemo.org: http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/ | 01:22 |
| divan | Friend of mine asked Nokia people in Moscow whether USB Host Mode will be available on N9 and was told yes. | 01:22 |
| divan | Sazpaimon_, just sign )) | 01:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | no | 01:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i dont support online petitions | 01:23 |
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| MohammadAG | Remind me how many petitions for maemo succeeded? :P | 01:23 |
| javispedro | all of them! | 01:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | you know what would get nokia to continue to support meego? | 01:24 |
| javispedro | specially that one where we asked for it to be killed | 01:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if all of their shareholders told them to do it | 01:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | or, if you get every single person in europe to sign that petition | 01:25 |
| Arkenoi | divan: actually the answer was it is available but "inofficial" and requires hacks | 01:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | oh wait, I can just flood the petition with fake signatures | 01:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the market will decide if nokia will continue to use meego or not | 01:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not us | 01:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i also dont have a twitter account | 01:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | someone registered sazpaimon | 01:27 |
| Sazpaimon_ | apparently to piss me off because he said i was "cracking symbian apps" | 01:27 |
| divan | Sazpaimon_, thanks for link to mobilenet.sz | 01:27 |
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| divan | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k | 01:27 |
| Sazpaimon_ | when all I did was repack nokia podcasting from an E75 so other S60 v3 FP2 devices could use it | 01:27 |
| divan | Aranel, 'required hacks' is ok for us :) | 01:28 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | what's that notch next to the A key | 01:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | for locking the keyboard? | 01:29 |
| Arkenoi | the outfit is surprisingly similar to e7. even more similar than old prototypes that had huge screen seen on the internets | 01:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | nope doesnt look like its for locking | 01:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | maybe it was supposed to have an N9 sticker on it | 01:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i guess i should get a microsim within the next fwe months | 01:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | or at least cut mine | 01:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | does the N950 do microsim? | 01:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | nobody seemed to mention that | 01:32 |
| Arkenoi | i doubt cargo cult goes that far | 01:32 |
| Arkenoi | but external dimensions for n9 is _exactly_ iphone 4 | 01:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i thought the N9 was a smidge wider than the i4 | 01:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | well that means they could have fit a slightly smaller batter and made the phone even smaller | 01:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | s/batter/battery | 01:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | also still no word on skype integration | 01:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but its looking like no | 01:34 |
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| Arkenoi | Sazpaimon_, it is there | 01:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | link? | 01:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | ive yet to see it advertised | 01:35 |
| Arkenoi | no link, just hearsay | 01:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | would have also liked to have seen qik support | 01:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so you could videochat with android users | 01:35 |
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| Arkenoi | but they say all maemo communication plugins are still there including skype | 01:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | that's cool at least | 01:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | man i hope nokia approves my company's launchpad request | 01:36 |
| * javispedro still needs to write ddp application =) | 01:36 | |
| NIN101 | The prices for N900 are rising. | 01:37 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | http://twitter.com/#!/texrat/statuses/83187538411532288 <3 texrat | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | Sazpaimon_: skype sucks | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | and besides, any word on release date for n9? | 01:41 |
| Sazpaimon_ | soon | 01:42 |
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| jacekowski | hmm, cortex-a8 | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | unexpected | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | i was really hoping for a9 | 01:45 |
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| wmarone | jacekowski: as was I, alas it was now or never for this one | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | looks iphoneish | 01:48 |
| javispedro | jacekowski: looks and feels iphoneish | 01:49 |
| javispedro | and I do agree that the omap3630 is meh... | 01:50 |
| javispedro | but we expected that, don't we... | 01:50 |
| jacekowski | well, with all that fuss about canceling it and stuff you would expect that they redesigned everything | 01:50 |
| jacekowski | including a9 | 01:50 |
| wmarone | I think the "cancel" was only the N950 over the hinge | 01:51 |
| javispedro | jacekowski: I think that moving to a9 means leaving TI | 01:51 |
| jacekowski | a10 is on the doorstep | 01:51 |
| jacekowski | javispedro: why? | 01:51 |
| jacekowski | ti is doing a9 | 01:51 |
| javispedro | jacekowski: in the sense that Nokia won't accept OMAP4, so they'd had to do the WP7-mandated chip | 01:51 |
| javispedro | (Qualcomm iirc) | 01:51 |
| jacekowski | why they wouldn't accept omap4? | 01:52 |
| wmarone | I think you mean Microsoft | 01:52 |
| javispedro | wmarone: yes. | 01:52 |
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| javispedro | jacekowski: just a feeling. | 01:52 |
| wmarone | I'm sure Nokia would be perfectly fine going OMAP4, but Microsoft controls everything about the hardware for WP7 | 01:52 |
| javispedro | jacekowski: I'll shut up when Nokia ships something new outside of Maemo with a new TI chip | 01:52 |
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| wmarone | they are rumoring that the Nokia WP7 devices will use the ST-Ericsson A9 chips | 01:53 |
| javispedro | (also, TI moved straight to A15 instead of A10) | 01:53 |
| ds3 | are the ST-E A9's crippled? | 01:53 |
| wmarone | ds3: how would they be? | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | hmm, how much memory does it have | 01:53 |
| ds3 | the N's are missing useful bits | 01:54 |
| jacekowski | 512 or 1G? | 01:54 |
| wmarone | ds3: no clue | 01:54 |
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| ds3 | do you really want an A9 though | 01:55 |
| jacekowski | well, all we have in n9 is "overclocked" n900 | 01:55 |
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| javispedro | jacekowski: slightly less consuming due to reduced die size | 01:57 |
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| * javispedro hesitates before clicking the submit request button | 02:15 | |
| smhar | ds3, N stands for No something :-) | 02:15 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, (GLaDOS voice) press it! | 02:18 |
| javispedro | DON'T PRESS THAT BUTTON!!! | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | PRESS IT | 02:18 |
| merlin1991 | no don't DO IT | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | (some Nokian) Hahaha, step 5, boobytrap the Nokia N950 | 02:19 |
| javispedro | FOUR PART PLAN PART FIVE! | 02:19 |
| wmarone | haha | 02:19 |
| javispedro | BOOBYTRAP THE REQUEST DEVELOPER DEVICE BUTTON! | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | In other news, Elop aims for the moon, in slowmo | 02:20 |
| javispedro | Elop: MEEGO DEVS, ARE YOU STILL ALIVE?? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! | 02:21 |
| javispedro | Elop: WELL, I?M STILL IN CONTROL, AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THIS COMPANY!! | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if Portal 2 was based on Nokia's story | 02:22 |
| javispedro | hey, this works. | 02:22 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 02:22 |
| javispedro | Elop: YOU HAD TO PLAY YOUR BLOODY OPENSOURCE GAMES, WHILE PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO WORK!! | 02:23 |
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| MohammadAG | who's Chell in this case? | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG | oh right MeeGo devs, so who's glados? :P | 02:23 |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG, who are we gonna turn into an AI? | 02:23 |
| GAN900 | I vote Darius2006 | 02:24 |
| javispedro | Elop: BANKRUPTCY! BANKRUPTCY! WE'RE BANKRUPT! LET GO! LET GO! I STILL HAVE FRIENDS IN MICROSOFT. I CAN STILL PULL ME IN. I CAN STILL FIX THIS!!! | 02:24 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, the idea came to him while he was "PWNING NUBS" on Live. | 02:24 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: clearly Intel: "I though you were my worst enemy, but now I think you're my best friend" | 02:25 |
| MohammadAG | and Caroline? | 02:26 |
| merlin1991 | Caroline? | 02:26 |
| * merlin1991 seems to have missed something while playin | 02:26 | |
| javispedro | Intel: you know how was life before you Meego appeared? I just shipped tablets. Nobody tried to kill me. Or convert me into a Handset. Or fed me to Microsoft." | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | merlin1991, impossible | 02:26 |
| javispedro | s/tablets/netbooks ;P | 02:26 |
| GAN900 | Ha | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | it was in 4 chapters of the game | 02:26 |
| merlin1991 | ah the assistant | 02:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Nokia and microsoft. http://blog.chron.com/goodmombadmom/2011/06/in-all-fairness-babies-are-delicious/ | 02:28 |
| * MohammadAG waits for javispedro to do the "goodbye, moblin" | 02:28 | |
| Shapeshifter | mh. now that i've seen the n950 in a video, I have to say, it's really sexy. and the animations look smooth at least, not as jerky as on the n900. nice nice | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | it ryhmes with caroline after all :P | 02:29 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: not yet sure if I should cast moblin as caroline | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, but it ryhmes! | 02:30 |
| javispedro | caroline is something like the intel software division | 02:30 |
| javispedro | a part of intel | 02:30 |
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| MohammadAG | k, fill this in, The surge of emotion that shot through me when I saved your life taught me an even more valuable lesson | 02:30 |
| javispedro | it has to make sense, not rhyme! ;) | 02:30 |
| javispedro | Intel: The next to nothing sales that shot through me when I decided to merge with Maemo taught me an even more valuable lesson: where the money sink lives inside my company.... software division _DELETED_ ;P | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, this should be a blog post xD | 02:33 |
| javispedro | and obviously the companion cube is abill_uk. | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Oops, I fizzled that one too." | 02:34 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 02:34 |
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| javispedro | Cara bel, cara mia bella! Che Maestima! Che Maestima! | 02:37 |
| javispedro | La mia bambina cara.... perché non resistive?? | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Goddamn baby | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://cdn6.fonearena.com/i/n9/b/NokiaN9Michael043.jpg | 02:38 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: that baby has more chances than we do to get a n9devkit! | 02:38 |
| javispedro | this reminds me to PRESS THE BUTTON | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | They should just mail an N950 to everybody with an active meego.com account. | 02:39 |
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| merlin1991 | GeneralAntilles: guess that's because it would include you too? :D | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | RATIONAL SELF INTEREST | 02:40 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: WELL YOU HAVE BEEN REPLACED! | 02:40 |
| javispedro | I DON'T NEED ANYONE NOW | 02:40 |
| javispedro | WHEN I DELETE YOU I MIGHT HAVE ... | 02:41 |
| javispedro | ok, stop. | 02:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 02:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, it's after midnight, right? | 02:41 |
| javispedro | yes, I need sleep. | 02:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Go, fly! | 02:41 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | http://www.google.com/search?q=nokia+hatterman | 02:47 |
| javispedro | ok, I hit the button. see you and good luck everyone. | 02:47 |
| * MohammadAG puts javispedro in a potato | 02:47 | |
| MohammadAG | night javispedro :P | 02:47 |
| Sazpaimon_ | about 1000 people dont know how to spell | 02:47 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | they should have called it Hatterman though | 02:48 |
| Sazpaimon_ | then whenever it goes wrong you could yell "HATTERMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN" | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hamrattan | 02:50 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders if the n950 supports partially backlighting hte screen | 02:55 | |
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| Sazpaimon_ | I hope so, because this: h is a little embarrasingoh | 02:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | N9 DOES have swype | 02:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i saw a video with swype settings | 02:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Liar. | 03:02 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | GeneralAntilles, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qkf4iaQyHg&feature=player_detailpage#t=368s | 03:02 |
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| * GeneralAntilles covers ears and yells "La La La" | 03:03 | |
| Sazpaimon_ | it doesnt work in this video though | 03:03 |
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| nox- | n950? will that ever be available to mere mortals? | 03:04 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | nox-, no | 03:04 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | it'll be available on loan to developers only | 03:04 |
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| nox- | hm ok | 03:04 |
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| Choom | what was the developer page for the N9 again? | 03:15 |
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| Choom | I want to try the SDK | 03:15 |
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| Choom | nevermind, "nokia n9 site:developer.nokia.com" on google found it | 03:17 |
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| pauly_ | hey anyone want an n900 with broken screen, broken usb? | 04:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | :/ | 04:06 |
| jpinx-away | pauly_: broken usb might be a claim on warranty | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure - but you'd probably get a non-zero amount for it on ebay. | 04:07 |
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| pauly___ | lol @ my nickname | 04:09 |
| pauly___ | um speedevil: wanna offer me anything? | 04:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | Alas - no. | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | It'd be more a random hack project than anything I can justify spending any money at all on. | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Ebay - if it's not warrantable would get you at least some cash. | 04:10 |
| pauly___ | ya think? | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 04:11 |
| pauly___ | i wanna buy and sell cell phones off craigslist its crazy so many people | 04:11 |
| pauly___ | how did u like the N9 | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | http://desc.shop.ebay.com/Cell-Phones-Smartphones-/9355/i.html?LH_TitleDesc=1&_nkw=n900+%28faulty%2Cspares%2C%22not+working%22%2Cbroken%2Ccracked%29&_catref=1&_dmpt=PDA_Accessories&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282 | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Looks good. | 04:12 |
| pauly___ | speedevil: lol at the white n900 | 04:13 |
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| pauly___ | speedevil: i ahve to get the data off of it but im to lazy, 8gb sd card and like 20gb data on it.anyone wanna talk to me im bored | 04:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - at the moment I've got no heating on - and it's 14C in here - currently on a very low income, so I'm regrettably able to offer nothing. | 04:17 |
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| pauly___ | woah | 04:18 |
| pauly___ | speedevil: can i ask u something its a crazy question but in most irc channels why are so many people in a channel and no one is chatting, ive never understood this? | 04:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | Simply as most are at this time asleep. | 04:21 |
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| pauly___ | speedevil: why dont they log out? | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | 7 hours ago - looking back in scroll - there were 6 people talking, and a page went by in 5 mins. | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Because they can read the past discussions when they were away. | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Their computer may also go beep if you highlight them. | 04:22 |
| pauly___ | ohhhh | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | There are many more people active about 4 hours ago | 04:23 |
| pauly___ | but theyed have to have there device or pc on all this time? | 04:23 |
| bindi | It's 4:23 in here atm | 04:23 |
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| bindi | pauly___: their pc needs to be on :) | 04:23 |
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| bindi | pauly___: many get free or paid shells, where they can run irssi, so their irc program is ran on a remote host, and they can connect to it when they like, without wasting electricity on their end | 04:23 |
| Choom | I stay online because my client runs remotely, and that allows me to scroll back and read the context of current conversations | 04:24 |
| pauly___ | ohhhhhhhh | 04:24 |
| Choom | another advantage of runing a remote client is that I can ssh in and resume the session from my cell phone | 04:24 |
| pauly___ | i understand | 04:24 |
| bindi | I run irssi on my home server, works wonders :D | 04:24 |
| Choom | or from work | 04:24 |
| Choom | besides, I'm on other channels too | 04:25 |
| pauly___ | makes sence | 04:25 |
| pauly___ | thanks so much for the info | 04:25 |
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| pigeon | will the n9's meego/harmattan be available for the n900? | 04:29 |
| * SpeedEvil looks at his magic-8-ball. | 04:30 | |
| pigeon | hahaha | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Ask again later. | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it's very unlikely. | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Impossible - no. | 04:30 |
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| pauly___ | yes an insider at nokia finland told me theyre gonna release all the souce code from there closed apps | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | But a large fraction of the UX is - I assume - closed. | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | pauly___: I'll believe it when I see it. | 04:31 |
| pauly___ | lol i joking | 04:31 |
| pigeon | heh | 04:31 |
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| Choom | the damn sdk takes ages to install | 04:33 |
| Choom | and I was stupid enough to select more plugins than I need | 04:33 |
| Choom | so it's taking even longer | 04:33 |
| Choom | Installing component Harmattan Emulator | 04:34 |
| pauly___ | omg reallyy | 04:34 |
| Choom | finally | 04:35 |
| Choom | it's finished | 04:35 |
| Choom | now, to check out the N9's UI | 04:35 |
| Choom | (I hope) | 04:35 |
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| pauly___ | choom: did u see it | 04:40 |
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| pauly___ | maemo5 :) | 04:53 |
| bindi | uh | 04:53 |
| bindi | i was using pc suite to use my 3G as the internets | 04:54 |
| bindi | so I disconnected it (in the software) | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Using that right now. | 04:54 |
| bindi | phone errored | 04:54 |
| bindi | and I shut it down | 04:54 |
| bindi | and it wont boot it anymore | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Odd. | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Errored in what way? | 04:54 |
| bindi | orange led :> | 04:54 |
| bindi | it gets to that part where those 5 dots | 04:55 |
| bindi | loading bar thingy | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | It may be battery low. | 04:55 |
| bindi | 2 seconds later it powers off | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | ~lowbatt | 04:55 |
| bindi | just had it plugged in for hours | 04:55 |
| bindi | connecting usb makes orange led flashj | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - plug it in - if the light isn't constant orange - unplug, remove battery, wait 30s, replace. | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | plug in - leave it a few hours. | 04:56 |
| bindi | now it started | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | There can be pathalogical states at low charge | 04:56 |
| bindi | and not it shut down | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially with older batteries. | 04:56 |
| bindi | now* | 04:56 |
| bindi | hmmmmm. | 04:56 |
| bindi | yup wont start up | 04:56 |
| bindi | let me find the charger-only and not data cable | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | doesn't really matter | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | either works | 04:57 |
| bindi | pc suite is trying to fdiddle with it | 04:57 |
| bindi | god damnit typing | 04:57 |
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| bindi | So eh. | 04:59 |
| bindi | what do I do now | 04:59 |
| bindi | reflash? | 04:59 |
| bindi | Why does it start flashing orange when I plug the usb in? | 05:00 |
| pauly___ | charging | 05:01 |
| pauly___ | ?? | 05:01 |
| bindi | orange is error, purple charging | 05:01 |
| bindi | atleast for me :> | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's flashing orange, it's booted | 05:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It's in ACT_DEAD state | 05:03 |
| bindi | hm. | 05:03 |
| bindi | I got it on now. | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | you diddn't pull the battery | 05:03 |
| bindi | any logs I can read on wtf happened? | 05:03 |
| bindi | I just did | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:03 |
| bindi | and it wouldnt start up even after that | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | The battery got too flat. | 05:03 |
| pauly___ | happened to me | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It can draw a _lot_ of power when tethering. | 05:03 |
| bindi | indeed its empty | 05:03 |
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| pauly___ | i broke a usb charger and connected it straight to battery | 05:04 |
| bindi | o_O | 05:04 |
| pauly___ | to get that lil bit of charge | 05:04 |
| pauly___ | a reflash fixed that problem of it always doing that when it gets to flat | 05:04 |
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| pauly___ | speedevil: do u remember when that happened to me like 8 months ago | 05:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Vagurly | 05:07 |
| pauly___ | bindi: what helped me was cutting a usb cheap charger and connecting it straight to the battery itself with the two wires | 05:07 |
| pauly___ | and holding it for a min or two | 05:08 |
| SpeedEvil | But don't do that - it's a bad idea. | 05:08 |
| pauly___ | it worked for me | 05:08 |
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| pauly___ | or buy spare battery charger off ebay | 05:09 |
| Thordasin | look for the battry type on goole i bought 2 bateries with a wall charger you plug the bateries in, from china for $18 | 05:10 |
| pauly___ | i think usa n900 is not popular | 05:12 |
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| Thordasin | I don't know its not as popular as some places but i can buy them off of people here in town of of craigs list all the time. | 05:14 |
| pauly___ | where u live | 05:14 |
| Thordasin | outside of nashville, tn in a little town called nunnelly | 05:15 |
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| pauly___ | i live in baltimore | 05:15 |
| pauly___ | and like one comes on here once every 3 months | 05:15 |
| Thordasin | hey, i used to work in dc, worked there for 15 years | 05:15 |
| pauly___ | craigslist | 05:15 |
| pauly___ | cool | 05:15 |
| Thordasin | yeah sonme guy has a n900 on craigs list in nashville for $156 | 05:16 |
| pauly___ | everyone says i should get an iphone or android | 05:16 |
| Thordasin | why the n900 rocks | 05:16 |
| pauly___ | i have one with screen and usb broken wanna buy it | 05:16 |
| Thordasin | how much? | 05:17 |
| pauly___ | idk? | 05:17 |
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| Thordasin | not sure what idk is :) | 05:18 |
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| pauly___ | make offer | 05:18 |
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| pauly___ | t-mobile coverage sucks | 05:18 |
| Thordasin | well, don't want to insult you but i'd give $50.00 for it. | 05:19 |
| pauly___ | no insult but i dont know | 05:19 |
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| pauly___ | i wana fix it but dont have $ | 05:19 |
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| Thordasin | i bought the one i have now a year ago off of criags list for $300.00 and i love it | 05:20 |
| pauly___ | i bought one last week for $180 | 05:20 |
| Thordasin | not bad great deal | 05:20 |
| Thordasin | i'm blind so the screen won't bother me too much | 05:20 |
| pauly___ | makes sence | 05:21 |
| bindi | sense! | 05:21 |
| bindi | D: | 05:21 |
| Thordasin | you know anything about linux and the maemo distro? | 05:21 |
| pauly___ | lil bit but i cant compile shit | 05:22 |
| pauly___ | cause i suck at everything | 05:22 |
| Thordasin | my question is about starting apps. i'm modifying the rootfs trying to put sshhd on it so i can get into the phone over ip | 05:22 |
| pauly___ | no idea | 05:22 |
| pauly___ | lol | 05:22 |
| Thordasin | but it doesn't seem to start | 05:23 |
| Thordasin | well i put the files where they belong init.d/ssh and rc2.d/S70ssh but no joy | 05:23 |
| pauly___ | beause linux sucks and windows all the way for the win the true open os windows lol | 05:24 |
| Thordasin | do you have ssh installed? | 05:24 |
| pauly___ | i have barely anything | 05:24 |
| Thordasin | bummer | 05:24 |
| bindi | er | 05:25 |
| Thordasin | there are some cool apps in the repo | 05:25 |
| bindi | installing openssh-server should do the trick | 05:25 |
| pauly___ | i flip cars off craigslist | 05:25 |
| Thordasin | bindi: i can't use the graphical interface cause i'm blind so i'm haveing to modify the roots and flash it. | 05:25 |
| bindi | as you wish :P | 05:26 |
| Thordasin | really thats a way to make some money huh :) | 05:26 |
| pauly___ | not really it sucks | 05:27 |
| Thordasin | bindi: nope not as i wish, if i could see i'd be happier to do it the normal way :) | 05:27 |
| bindi | just wondering how you ircing :D | 05:27 |
| Thordasin | i am useing vinux which is a blind user version of ubuntu 10.04 and pidgin, they are reading me everything | 05:28 |
| pauly___ | hey im out :) | 05:28 |
| Thordasin | bindi: do you have sshd installd on your n900? | 05:28 |
| bindi | Thordasin: I did, not anymore, why? | 05:29 |
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| Thordasin | oh i was gonna ask if you could tar up your root fs and send it to me so i can study where it modified the files | 05:29 |
| Thordasin | there should be a way to chroot into the mounted jffs2 and install the package | 05:30 |
| bindi | no idea about about that | 05:30 |
| bindi | im getting ready for reflashing my phone | 05:30 |
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| Thordasin | bindi: right now i have the rootfs.jffs2 mounted on /media/rootfs andi'm doing dpkg -x into there and then adding startup files myself | 05:31 |
| bindi | cluttered with shit, nitdroid wont uninstalll etc. easy way :D | 05:31 |
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| bindi | Thordasin: i'm sorry but i don't have much linux knowledge, i can just apt-get and thats about it :D | 05:31 |
| Thordasin | bindi: oh well thanks, what you reflashing to? | 05:31 |
| bindi | latest official ofc | 05:32 |
| Thordasin | is that pr 1.3 | 05:32 |
| bindi | yeah | 05:32 |
| Thordasin | thats what i have on now, i had meego on it for a few months but i keep running into some problems working on it so i'm gonna try and do my work under maemo, if i can get into the phone that is :) | 05:33 |
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| bindi | yeah I had CSSU and uh some tweaks like swappolube | 05:34 |
| bindi | ended up making installing packages slow | 05:35 |
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| bindi | and nitdroid wouldnt uninstall | 05:36 |
| bindi | oh he left :< | 05:36 |
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| bindi | wb | 05:36 |
| Thordasin | bindi: sorry bout that lost connection. | 05:36 |
| bindi | you parted | 05:36 |
| Thordasin | yeah i have to toggle between the typeing area and the viewing are to read what you say, and everyone once and a while i end up in th chan serv and can't get out of it. | 05:37 |
| bindi | oh :P | 05:37 |
| bindi | sucks | 05:37 |
| Thordasin | not too bad if i'm careful it doesn' happe to often :) | 05:38 |
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| Thordasin | i hit f6 to toggle over to the viewing are, and tab to get back but if i forget where i am and hit f6 in the view area i get chan server :) | 05:38 |
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| bindi | so cant you hit tab twice? or something | 05:39 |
| Thordasin | i tried but it doesn't work | 05:39 |
| bindi | aw | 05:39 |
| bindi | excuse me now | 05:39 |
| bindi | apparently need to let the phone recharge before flashing | 05:39 |
| Thordasin | i'm sure there is a way out of it, but i ahven't figured it out yet, so for now i just hit escape and re-enter the room. | 05:39 |
| bindi | gonna head for bed, its 6 am soon :P | 05:40 |
| bindi | gn | 05:40 |
| Thordasin | wow take care :) | 05:40 |
| Thordasin | gn to you as well. | 05:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm - mod points, and n9 story on /. | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 05:49 |
| Choom | people still mod slashdot? | 05:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I'm temped to write a decent "how to charge McGyver style" paper, rather than having semi-n00bs spread potentially dangerous simplifications | 05:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Choom: sometimes. | 05:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Kust went through the thread modding insightfull/troll. | 05:56 |
| Choom | I've disabled my willingness to moderate like 10 years ago | 05:56 |
| Choom | metamod twice a day + mod points every 3 days were driving me insane | 05:56 |
| Choom | and I figured I was probably getting in the way of people who actually wanted to mod | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I take pride in the fact I hafe NFC what you are talking about ;-D | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | have* | 05:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might be related to my ignorance about /. in general | 05:58 |
| Choom | nowadays I'm just a luerker there | 05:58 |
| Choom | I may post something to it twice a year now | 05:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so even the N9 rumble went down now? | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | here | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm pondering since 12h to add a "YES, WE HEARD...<URL>" to the topic, anticipating the late excited ones | 06:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe not needed | 06:02 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders why his net will occasionally die till he traceroutes something. (3g) | 06:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer | NAT | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus maybe traffic shaper | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | QoS/ToS | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | who knows | 06:04 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe winP7 or spyPhone do traceroutes frequently, so they tried some weird optimization? | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | IRC freezes, and if I notice in the 2 mins before timeout - traceroute brings it back | 06:05 |
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| Macer | wow so nokia is seriously releasing an N950? | 06:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | huh | 06:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | no | 06:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | last i heard its only being released to registered nokia developers | 06:07 |
| Macer | http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n950-confirmed-for-meego-devs-4-inch-qwerty-slider-21160505/ | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder why my N900 falls outa my router's ARP table every now and then | 06:07 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and 250 devices to meego open source developers | 06:07 |
| Sazpaimon_ | Macer, read the article | 06:07 |
| Macer | i did | 06:07 |
| Macer | it mentions that it has no support or warranty | 06:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and that its for developers | 06:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | see http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/#article2 | 06:08 |
| Macer | it says "This is definately one for developers..." | 06:08 |
| Macer | :) | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that they are short on devices, and so there are only 250 for meego | 06:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | "To aid the speedy development of apps for the Nokia N9 smartphone, Nokia has produced a limited number of developer phones, the Nokia N950 phone. This phone isn't available for purchase and can only be obtained through selected developer programs, such as Nokia Developer LaunchPad." | 06:08 |
| Macer | only 250 N950s? :) wow | 06:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | only 250 N950s given to Meego developers | 06:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | open source meego developers | 06:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | corporate and professional developers obviously get higher priority | 06:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and a larger amount of devices released | 06:09 |
| Macer | so is the N9 supposed to be the mainstream meego phone | 06:09 |
| Macer | ? | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | but basically they're just short on devices | 06:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yes | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | period | 06:09 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: sounds like it ;) | 06:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the N9 is the commercial device | 06:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | that anyone can buy | 06:09 |
| Macer | does the n9 have a qwerty? | 06:09 |
| Sazpaimon_ | no | 06:10 |
| Macer | omg fail | 06:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | duct tape a bluetooth keyboard to it | 06:10 |
| Macer | i bet the bt keyboard won't even work | 06:10 |
| Macer | :) | 06:10 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | im sure it will | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | "this is NOT a computer, this is a fsckng fake iPhone" | 06:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | try to fit an iphone sliding keyboard case on it | 06:11 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: sounds like it | 06:11 |
| Macer | hahaha | 06:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it may work | 06:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not well | 06:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but it may | 06:11 |
| Macer | n900 4 life it seems | 06:11 |
| Choom | I'd call it an iphone without the restrictions | 06:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the N9 has the same dimensions as an iphone 4 | 06:11 |
| Choom | which is pretty exciting | 06:11 |
| Macer | i hate iphones and android phones | 06:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | http://compare.ebay.com/like/150613381922?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar | 06:11 |
| Macer | i would love to get my hands on an n950 but that isn't being realistic | 06:11 |
| Macer | i will stick with my n900 :) | 06:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I may get one | 06:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i signed up through my company | 06:11 |
| Macer | 600MHz vs 1GHz | 06:12 |
| Macer | i can deal with the 40% less cpu speed haha | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | If I'd want such class of device, honestly I'd go for the original, not for the 3rd clone | 06:12 |
| Choom | 256mb of ram vs 1gb | 06:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | here's the deal | 06:12 |
| Choom | resistive single-touch screen vs capacitive multitouch | 06:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if the N9 sells | 06:12 |
| Macer | Choom: is it REAL 1GB? :) | 06:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the meego team @ nokia can push their bosses to give them more money | 06:12 |
| Macer | or n900 swapped 1GB? | 06:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | to push out more Meego devices | 06:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but for now, the N9 is to appeal to the masses | 06:13 |
| Macer | meh. i will wait and watch | 06:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | to show Nokia that meego CAN thrive | 06:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and it CAN sell | 06:13 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and it WILL work | 06:13 |
| Macer | i doubt that anything will come from it :) | 06:13 |
| Macer | especially after they start selling winmob phones to corporate offices | 06:13 |
| Macer | with exchange as a selling point | 06:13 |
| Choom | a phone will come from it, which quite frankly, is all I want | 06:13 |
| Macer | 1 phone that will be old in a year | 06:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | Macer, it's 1GB of physical RAM | 06:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | with 16 or 64GB of internal storage | 06:14 |
| Choom | my n900 is old too | 06:14 |
| Choom | and that's not what bothers me about it | 06:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | you know, I looked at that ebay link | 06:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and it looks kinda cool | 06:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i'd dig an N9 version of that | 06:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | even if I do get an N950 | 06:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I have 18 n900s stored at -270C, in a vacuum. | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: that's gambling high with a poor hand | 06:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Muhahahahahah! | 06:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, what | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | putting all your eggs in the N9-must-sell basket | 06:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | well, obviously the meego team had no choice | 06:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | their budget was shrinking | 06:15 |
| Choom | seriously I don't care whether it sells or not | 06:16 |
| Choom | so long as I can buy one | 06:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they couldnt convince nokia to give them enough money to produce, promote, and support more than 1 device | 06:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | remember, each device needs to be supported by nokia through warranties, and employees need to be trained | 06:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so the N9 is nokia telling the meego guys "Okay, let's see what you've got" | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | so they damn sure better came up with a N900-i first | 06:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | why | 06:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | an N900-type device doesn't appeal to the mass market | 06:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it just doesn't | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | no training, very little risk, and it would kick ass | 06:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they need a device that can appeal to the masses, so they can use the sales figures to their advantage | 06:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it would kick ass to you and mee | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: silly stupid thinking, I commented on it earlier | 06:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'm not saying it's smart | 06:19 |
| Choom | that doesn't make a lot of sense | 06:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but it is what it is | 06:19 |
| moofree | 03:14 < Sazpaimon_> even if I do get an N950 | 06:19 |
| moofree | you're gonna send it to me. | 06:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | shut up trollfree | 06:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | get out | 06:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | getoutfrog.gif | 06:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | guys, moofree is a troll | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-21 17:50:13] <DocScrutinizer> (<GeneralAntilles> "Screw the guys we already have, we want other people!" ) BUT... but, there are SO MANY out there that haven't bought our product, and SO FEW here that are happy and and more of what we got! let's just bin it, and start something better, for the masses out there [2011-06-21 17:52:45] <DocScrutinizer> ... "and first of all let's see what is the stuff *most* people use, then we'll | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | try to outperform Aplle and Google on their own playground. Forget about those linux nerds" | 06:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | ask franz_ | 06:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | he knows | 06:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | franz_, look who followed us here | 06:20 |
| moofree | franz is an even bigger troll :\ | 06:20 |
| moofree | i don't think #maemo wants to hear about our nonsense politics kthx | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/and and/and want/ | 06:21 |
| Sazpaimon_ | stop taking it so personally | 06:21 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'm sure the meego guys want to release an N950 for the masses | 06:21 |
| Choom | that does not compute | 06:21 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but they need to convince nokia that it's worth their money to run with meego in the long run | 06:22 |
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| Choom | the people they should convince are the PR guys to make promises of continuity | 06:22 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they've alredy out-PRed the N9 compared to the N900 | 06:23 |
| Choom | (about the N9, of course, I don't care about anything similar to the N900) | 06:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and it's only been a day | 06:23 |
| moofree | pr guy would just quit RIIIGHT before they cancel all those promises | 06:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but like I said, you guys shouldnt take it so personally | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia has problems with producing N950 in volumes for sale | 06:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder idly about how screen protectors work for curved screens | 06:24 |
| Choom | I don't | 06:24 |
| Choom | I'm quite excited about the N9 | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously they intended to sell it first, then N9. Otherwise it wouldn't be ready for use as a devel device for N9 | 06:24 |
| Choom | it's exactly what I wanted | 06:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yeah the problem is they aren't convinced it's worth mass producing a device in an unpopular form factor with an OS that hasn't been tested in the mass market | 06:24 |
| moofree | chicken and egg problem | 06:24 |
| Choom | complete with a capacitive screen and a compass | 06:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | we don't know for sure *why* the N950 didn't get mass produced, but that's my theory | 06:25 |
| moofree | nokia doesn't want to risk its cancellation of meego | 06:25 |
| moofree | "It might succeed if we actually tried to make it succeed!" | 06:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the N9 is nokia trying to make meego succeed | 06:25 |
| moofree | lol | 06:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yes, it's not going to be popular with us | 06:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but what about "the other billion"? | 06:26 |
| moofree | pretty sad if you ask me | 06:26 |
| Choom | I've actually seen iphone users get aroused about the N9 today | 06:27 |
| moofree | oh well, the M9 will be nice | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: BS, didn't you listen? Nokia got problems with CE cert for N950, or sth. Also with production yield or similar | 06:27 |
| moofree | (microsoft n9 lol) | 06:27 |
| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, elaborate | 06:27 |
| Sazpaimon_ | are you saying the N950 had a hardware issue? | 06:28 |
| moofree | if it didn't pass electrical certifications, they wouldn't be able to send it out to developers | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 06:28 |
| Sazpaimon_ | well that doesn't really change my theory | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | moofree: sure about that? | 06:28 |
| Macer | was the n900 really popular in the US? :) | 06:29 |
| Macer | i wonder how many they sold here. | 06:29 |
| moofree | depends on the country | 06:29 |
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| moofree | and which electrical certifications it might have not passed or what have you | 06:29 |
| moofree | but yeah, link to where you heard that | 06:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they came to a crossroads during development: "Do we spend all our money fixing this device that may not be popular in the long run, or do we dedicate our time to a form factor that has a better chance of thriving in today's market?" | 06:29 |
| Choom | I'm glad they chose the latter then | 06:30 |
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| Choom | if that's the case | 06:30 |
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| moofree | you act as if being a typical generic slab phone is a guarantee of success | 06:30 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'm not saying that | 06:30 |
| Choom | it surely increases the chances | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | you dunno nuttin about what really happened, could be everything from soldering problems in fab to "plotitcal" issues with some cert authorities. And there can be arbitrary number of ways dealing with this for a limited number of devices that don't need to earn money | 06:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Suddenly got noisy in here. | 06:31 |
| Choom | as I said earlier, I've seen iphone users get excited about the N9 today | 06:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'm saying a slate phone has a much better opportunity to succed than a qwerty phone | 06:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | plain and simple | 06:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it's a proven form factor that works | 06:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and isn't that what we all want in the end? For meego to succeed? | 06:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: typically that's not how business works in hw manufacturing | 06:32 |
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| Choom | quite frankly, all I want in the end is a company that develops hardware that I like | 06:33 |
| moofree | all i wanted was a keyboard | 06:33 |
| Choom | and nokia seems to be delivering as far as I'm concerned | 06:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sazpaimon_, no, I want something I want to buy and own. :P | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: you start to sound like a troll | 06:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | For as much as Nokia loves shipping multiple device formfactors | 06:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish they'd do it with some of their Linux offerings. | 06:34 |
| moofree | GeneralAntilles: pretty much | 06:34 |
| moofree | they have how many thousands of phones on the market? | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: they'll eventually get their shit sorted with N950 | 06:34 |
| moofree | n9 with keyboard would be nice :\ | 06:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hope so | 06:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wish Elop hadn't stabbed MeeGo in the gut. | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't think they developed that device just for 250 developers, do you? | 06:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Man-with-no-arms | 06:35 |
| moofree | assuming the n9 is a success, maybe there'll be a meego device i'll want to get in the future, but if it falls to LG or HTC to make a meego phone with a keyboard... i'm giving up hope on the platform in general | 06:36 |
| Sazpaimon_ | GeneralAntilles, yeah with symbian, an OS they develop in house and they alreayd make returns on | 06:36 |
| moofree | depends what intel does i guess :/ | 06:36 |
| Sazpaimon_ | right now I see the N9 as Nokia dipping their toes in the Meego waters | 06:37 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if they like how it sells, they'll probably jump in | 06:37 |
| anidel_ | the N9 will sell. As much as the N900 sold. | 06:37 |
| moofree | i just like how they're going to fragment their own marketplace | 06:38 |
| moofree | yet again | 06:38 |
| Choom | they need PR to promise continuity | 06:38 |
| Choom | otherwise it won't sell | 06:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | moofree, what, with WP7? | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | OTOH there's that new policy which says there will be no more meego devices AIUI | 06:38 |
| anidel_ | no one promised continuity on the N900. All they said was the there'll be another device after it | 06:38 |
| Choom | the mass market depends on the availability of developers | 06:38 |
| moofree | yeah between windows phone and meego (and whatever's left over from symbian) | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | anidel_: incorrect | 06:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | symbian and meego apps can be ported to one another easily | 06:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if they use qt | 06:39 |
| anidel_ | DocScrutinizer: partially. It was always touted as 4 out of 5 | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | anidel_: they said their future top notch smartphones all will have maemo/meego | 06:39 |
| moofree | what about qt on windows phone 7? | 06:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not gonna happen | 06:39 |
| anidel_ | DocScrutinizer: they didn't lie at that time. The change happened afterwards, though | 06:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anidel_: and that race 1 to 5 wasn't a race to grave | 06:39 |
| moofree | yep | 06:39 |
| Choom | DocScrutinizer: they did? | 06:39 |
| moofree | not happening. | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: sure | 06:40 |
| Choom | oh you mean before wp7 | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, obviously | 06:40 |
| anidel_ | I knew it was a test to find an alternative to Symbian. I knew it would succeed and it did. I didn't know Elop would come along | 06:41 |
| Choom | I never expected the N900 to succeed | 06:42 |
| Trizt | we need a hit man to take elop out | 06:42 |
| Choom | and neither were the reviewers back when it was launched | 06:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | neither did nokia | 06:42 |
| moofree | Trizt: that's illegal! | 06:42 |
| Trizt | moofree; it's the microsoft way ;) | 06:43 |
| Choom | the N900 launched with a specific niche in mind | 06:43 |
| Sazpaimon_ | almost 2500 comments on the N9 hands on posting on engadget | 06:43 |
| Choom | I don't think they were testing the waters for anything | 06:43 |
| anidel_ | The path to WP7 has been chosen . At least they didn't kill MeeGo..they just want to see how it'll be accepted..hopefully if it sells, Nokia may reconsider (in the long term though) | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, nokia got taken by surprise when N900 sales went thru the roof | 06:43 |
| Choom | I do, however, believe that the N9 is testing the waters | 06:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | see, I'm not alone here | 06:44 |
| Choom | but they need to work with PR as well in order to make developers believe that there is continuity after all | 06:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | most popular comment on the N9 posting on engadget: "Kinda makes you wonder why Nokia needs WP7...." | 06:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | +542 | 06:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | one of the next most popular, with +143: | 06:45 |
| Sazpaimon_ | "( . ) ( . ) These" | 06:45 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yes | 06:45 |
| anidel_ | Nokia needed WP7, to me, because developers will develop for it. That's for sure. Not that much for MeeGo. At least from their point of view | 06:45 |
| Choom | they need to make developers at least believe that, if the phone is a success, more will come | 06:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they kicked devels' balls once too often | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | a thing straight from that friggin mega deja-vu with OM | 06:48 |
| anidel_ | I think developers on all platforms got balls kicked once too often... | 06:48 |
| anidel_ | iOS, Android, Windows etc... | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet SpeedEvil could contribute some more elaborated comments on it | 06:49 |
| Trizt | anidel_; just add mono and you have those two developers who would developers for wp7 developing for which ever platform | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Trizt: X-D indeed | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo got mono AFAIK ;-P | 06:50 |
| * SpeedEvil quacks. | 06:50 | |
| Trizt | something that would give a better boost would to have alien dalvik preinstalled on the n9 | 06:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Sazpaimon_: Dual control sticks! :) | 06:51 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if alien dalvik could ever have android market. | 06:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Trizt: yup | 06:51 |
| Sazpaimon_ | SpeedEvil, is the market a dalvik app? | 06:55 |
| Sazpaimon_ | alien dalvik is just dalvik vm ported to a different linker | 06:55 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | im sure someone dedicatd enough could do the same thig | 06:56 |
| Sazpaimon_ | *thing | 06:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't mean a hack. | 06:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean an actual official market app. | 06:57 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so do I | 06:58 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | if the market app is a dalvik executable program,it should work | 06:58 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it also doesn't really matter in the end because myriad is apparently only marketing alien dalvik to OEMs | 07:00 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and OEMs aren't biting | 07:00 |
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| Choom | how lucrative is the android market? | 07:01 |
| Choom | do people actually buy stuff for android? | 07:01 |
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| Trizt | seems like those I know with androids do buy | 07:02 |
| Sazpaimon_ | most handsets use their carrier to pay for programs through the market | 07:02 |
| Sazpaimon_ | like if you have a nokia E71x on AT&T, you can buy stuff off the ovi store and it'll charge your AT&T account | 07:03 |
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| Choom | I have this feeling (and I hope to be alone here) that the linux community does not care much about profit | 07:04 |
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| Choom | I mean I can easily see myself developing for profit for the wp7 / ios, but not for a linux device | 07:05 |
| Sazpaimon_ | Choom, people seem to have the incorrect opinion that if you work with linux you should not expect profit | 07:05 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and that you're working for the linux "community" | 07:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Speakin gpersonally, I'm quite happy buying stuff for linux. | 07:05 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not for "everyone else" | 07:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I bought angry birds level pack. | 07:06 |
| Trizt | look at the price of some of the apps in ovi for n900, gives a feeling that some people do hope for profit for something not that usable | 07:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to buy more angry birds levle.s | 07:06 |
| Choom | and if this is a common feeling it's also quite distructive to marketplaces, because the profit is shared | 07:06 |
| Choom | yes but then when one looks at the maemo repos, they're full of free apps | 07:08 |
| Choom | some of which would most likely sell a lot on apple's app store | 07:08 |
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| Choom | this in turn drives the devs who wish to work for profit away from the platform, because the users end up expecting everything for free | 07:10 |
| SpeedEvil | True. | 07:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And regrettable to an extent. | 07:11 |
| Trizt | Choom; yeah, there are many good ones that people on android/apple would buy for top dollars, but it's the same for the desktop computers too but that don't make people to use linux (while on a phone it works as they don't know) | 07:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | http://media.tinhte.vn/photo/var/resizes/sonlazio/DSC_2201_095.jpg?m=1308684113 | 07:11 |
| Sazpaimon_ | updates? on my nokia? | 07:11 |
| Choom | LOL | 07:12 |
| Choom | I want a purple / violet N9 | 07:13 |
| Trizt | I want an n950 with the same specs as N9 | 07:14 |
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| * SpeedEvil notes that that would be a n9. | 07:14 | |
| Choom | shey should have round corners too | 07:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | Trizt, N950 does have the same specs as the N9 | 07:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | well, almost the same | 07:14 |
| Trizt | okey n9 with slide out keyboard | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it has all the important specs | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | same soc | 07:15 |
| Choom | you can have an on-screen keyboard | 07:15 |
| Choom | live with that :P | 07:15 |
| Trizt | Sazpaimon_; no nfc, not the same screen | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it's free | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | deal with it | 07:15 |
| Trizt | Choom; it's not as good as a real one | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | deal w/ it | 07:16 |
| Trizt | ask any iphone user who writes a lot | 07:16 |
| Choom | whether they'd trade their thin iphones for something thicket with a physical keyboard? | 07:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | iphone users dont have swype | 07:16 |
| Choom | they'd hate it | 07:16 |
| * Trizt likes to complain | 07:16 | |
| Sazpaimon_ | N9 will have swype | 07:16 |
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| Trizt | timew to get to work | 07:16 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | i dont see why people cant just use a bluetooth keyboard on their N9 | 07:17 |
| Choom | swipe isn't that exciting to me, actually | 07:17 |
| * SpeedEvil likes hw keyboard. | 07:17 | |
| SpeedEvil | I can use my n900 with eyes closed, with hwkbd | 07:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if the N9 is popular, the chinese will probably make an N9 case with a sliding keyboard | 07:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Or when paying attention to other stuff | 07:17 |
| strohhalm | i would like to have an 950 :\ | 07:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | strohhalm, learn to develop | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | or register an LLC | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it costs like $50 | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | make a fake company LLC and register it with nokia as a developer account | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | make up some fake project you're working on | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | request an N950 | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | done | 07:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if Choom is way to much basing his notions about general situation on his own PoV and attitude | 07:18 | |
| Choom | I don't even like N900's physical keyboard much | 07:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I love the N900's keyboard | 07:19 |
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| strohhalm | Sazpaimon_: nice idea | 07:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i know I'llmiss it in the N9 | 07:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | epecially with IRC | 07:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but I'll live | 07:19 |
| Choom | for example, there's no blue shift key on the right side of the keyboard | 07:19 |
| Choom | I don't even know where Esc is on the N900 | 07:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the N950's keyboard is a vast improvement over the N900 | 07:20 |
| Choom | fortunately, the terminal app has a virtual Esc key | 07:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | strohhalm, no reason why it wouldn't work | 07:20 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | then sell the N950 on ebay, make a few grand | 07:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | tell nokia one of your employees brought their kid in to work and stuck it in the blender | 07:21 |
| strohhalm | i don't disargree | 07:21 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if you want an N950 that bad I suggest you do that | 07:21 |
| Choom | or just buy a bt keyboard and be happy with that | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: I honestly can't see why you are here and seems own a N900 - you don't like N900 to have hw kbd, you don't appreciate the FOSS concept (otherwise you'd not argue it's a bad thing to have many free apps)... .oO(???) | 07:22 |
| Choom | DocScrutinizer: I do actually appreciate the FOSS concept | 07:22 |
| Choom | DocScrutinizer: however, it's not good for a market place | 07:23 |
| strohhalm | foss must be something really tasty, soo much peaple like this O_o | 07:23 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | the free in FOSS doesnt mean free as in free beer | 07:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it's free as in freedom | 07:23 |
| strohhalm | ;) | 07:23 |
| Choom | DocScrutinizer: and while the N900 has negative aspects, there's currently no competition for it, as far as I'm concerned | 07:23 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | meaning I have the freedom to profit off of my work | 07:23 |
| Choom | DocScrutinizer: however I can't hide the fact that I'm pretty excited about the N9 | 07:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and you have the freedom to share your work for free | 07:24 |
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| pabs3 | Choom: I'm happy to take the N900 off your hands if you no longer want it :) | 07:24 |
| Choom | because, to me, it merges what I like about the N900 with what I envy from the iphone | 07:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | also its worth mentioning that Nokia's stock went up marginally since the N9 was announced | 07:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | like, 20 cents | 07:25 |
| Choom | pabs3: once the N9 comes out I'll be more than happy to sell it to one of you cheap | 07:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | http://247wallst.com/2011/06/21/nokia-launches-windows-phone-into-smartphone-storms-with-aid-from-microsoft/ | 07:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | wow | 07:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | this article is so wrong | 07:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | apparently the N9 is a windows phone?! | 07:26 |
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| Choom | pabs3: that's assuming the N9 can actually deliver, otherwise I'll just default to the iphone 5 which should be out at that point | 07:27 |
| ver | buying an n9 will be like buying an amiga. | 07:27 |
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| ver | and yes, they still make amigas, heh. | 07:27 |
| Sazpaimon_ | ver, amigas have a hardware keyboard | 07:28 |
| Choom | ROFL | 07:28 |
| ver | they don't come with a keyboard | 07:28 |
| Choom | but they lack a capacitive touchscreen | 07:28 |
| Choom | which, to me, is a lot more important | 07:28 |
| Choom | And a compass! | 07:28 |
| ver | yeah i'm all about the 950 | 07:28 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yeah amiga's virtual keyboard blows | 07:29 |
| ver | terrible business move for nokia, but very cool toy. | 07:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i fail to see the comparison | 07:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | where's the ovi maps on my amiga | 07:29 |
| ver | because nobody uses amiga | 07:29 |
| ver | and nobody will be using meego | 07:29 |
| Choom | I certainly will | 07:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | we'll see | 07:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the market will respond | 07:30 |
| Choom | I have this stupid dream of modifying duke nukem 3d to work with the accelerometer and a compass | 07:30 |
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| Choom | for awesome, 90s-style, virtual reality | 07:31 |
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| opdf2 | what's the estimated price for ebay n950? $1500? | 07:32 |
| Choom | I've also been playing with the qt SDK and am loving the experience, unlike scratchbox.. | 07:33 |
| pabs3 | opdf2: a visit from the police? | 07:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I think you could sell it for at least that | 07:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yes because its totally illegal to break nokia's NDA | 07:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | you'll get a visit from their lawyers | 07:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not the cops | 07:33 |
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| Stskeeps | those people are perfectly capable of breaking your legs | 07:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 07:34 |
| opdf2 | too bad.. not that I would buy.. just wanna see the gobs of money people would pay for that thing | 07:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | just saying | 07:34 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | pay $50 for an LLC, get an N950 through their developer program, make a new ebay account, sell the N950 | 07:35 |
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| opdf2 | looks great though | 07:36 |
| opdf2 | http://twitpic.com/5eslhw | 07:36 |
| Sazpaimon_ | that little tab next to the A | 07:37 |
| Sazpaimon_ | what is that | 07:37 |
| Sazpaimon_ | is that supposed to be there the N9 text was supposd to be? | 07:37 |
| Sazpaimon_ | also i hope they release a firmware update soon that lets you use portrait app launcher | 07:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the fact that it doesnt do portrait when the keyboard is out is a little silly | 07:38 |
| Macer | damn that n950 is pretty | 07:38 |
| Macer | Sazpaimon_: considering the n900 be happy it does portrait at all :) | 07:38 |
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| opdf2 | i havent seen a qwerty phone that good in awhile | 07:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | opdf2, you haven't seen the E7? | 07:39 |
| opdf2 | yeah that is good | 07:39 |
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| opdf2 | not enough great looking qwerty phones...boo | 07:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i personally would miss the convex screen on an N950 | 07:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the N9's screen just seems more natural | 07:40 |
| Sazpaimon_ | especially when using jestures | 07:40 |
| Sazpaimon_ | *gestures | 07:40 |
| Sazpaimon_ | damn it's late | 07:40 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i really hope i dont need to wait weeks for nokia to approve my developer application | 07:41 |
| Choom | don't think I've ever tried a convex screen | 07:41 |
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| Choom | I hope it works better for drag/drop than iphone's | 07:43 |
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| ShadowJK | $1500 would be worth it, if it came with warranty :) | 08:18 |
| Choom | warranty not to be sued | 08:19 |
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| ShadowJK | warranty that they'll resolder it when usb ports and components fall off the circuit board | 08:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pretty? HAH! you'll get THAT: http://thenokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_1.jpg for N950, actually | 08:23 |
| Macer | hahaha | 08:24 |
| Macer | i'll still take it just for the qwerty | 08:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://thenokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_slide.jpg | 08:24 |
| Macer | wow that is one fatass dude using it | 08:25 |
| dm8tbr | hehe, it was kinda funny to see pictures with the uglifier plastic on | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://thenokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_side.jpg | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | this might be the actual case, not any "uglifier plastic on" | 08:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tooling for case it expensive | 08:26 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: well. i hope they make enough for the masses | 08:26 |
| Macer | :/ | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | not of that version for sure | 08:26 |
| Macer | well.. any version | 08:26 |
| Macer | i don't want a non qwerty n9 | 08:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: Nokia hasn't developed this N950 just to give out 250 to community developers - you bet they *want* to sell bilions of it | 08:27 |
| Macer | they can sell at least a few thousands | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | they just need to find a way it actually can get sold and earns money, and for sure they will happily sell to anybody | 08:28 |
| Macer | they will probably mass produce them after people have all bought the n9 haha | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | they for sure don't delay MP for concerns of canibalizing N9 | 08:29 |
| Macer | canibalizing! hahaha | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | the devices are too different for user profile, yet way too similar in technology | 08:29 |
| Macer | there also is the possibility that the n900 meego team might get everything working :) | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | (canibalizing) sorry for my marketing diction | 08:30 |
| Macer | that would be nice too although the n950's better hardware would be nice to use | 08:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | n950 has worse hw than N9 | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | way 'worse' | 08:31 |
| Macer | but better hw than n900 | 08:31 |
| Macer | pfft. the qwerty makes up for it lol | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | a bit, yeah | 08:31 |
| pabs3 | so anyone planning on reverse engineering things like the SGX OpenGL ES drivers? | 08:31 |
| Macer | 1GHz omap and 1GB physical ram? | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | 512MB RAM | 08:31 |
| Macer | i would put the 3x more ram in the more than a bit category | 08:32 |
| Macer | oh | 08:32 |
| Macer | 2x :) | 08:32 |
| Macer | and a 40% bump in cpu clock speed | 08:32 |
| Choom | that's on the n950 | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | TFT LCD instead AMOLED | 08:32 |
| Choom | you're on different tunes | 08:32 |
| wmarone | pabs3: hasn't happened in ~3 years, probably won't | 08:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.developer.nokia.com/dp?uri=http://sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes N950 specs | 08:33 |
| Choom | pabs3: too much trouble with little return potential | 08:33 |
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| Stskeeps | pabs3: everyone who gets near that code goes blind | 08:34 |
| pabs3 | wmarone: seems like some part of that was done, see the end of http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:PowerVR_drivers | 08:34 |
| Macer | is polycarbonate just a scientific way of saying plastic? :) | 08:34 |
| pabs3 | wut, why is ruby1.8 non-free?? http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/r/ruby1.8/ | 08:35 |
| pabs3 | and swig and speex and libogg and libjpeg | 08:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Macer: Polycarbonate is a sort of plastic. | 08:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | strange enough they don't mention the 512MB RAM on N950 | 08:36 |
| Macer | bt 4.0 vs bt 2.1EDR | 08:36 |
| Kaadlajk | DocScrutinizer: that is because it does not have 512 | 08:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | some developer.nokia.com webpages said so IIRC | 08:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: It's used in bullet resistant glazing. | 08:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: our speculations were about direct hw accelerations using DSP/GFX | 08:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | NB N9 claims 50h of continuous music playback | 08:38 |
| pabs3 | in ruby? understandable for speex/jpeg/ogg though | 08:38 |
| Macer | * Chinese input method is not supported in this Beta release | 08:38 |
| Macer | haha.. good! keep the chinese out! | 08:38 |
| pabs3 | ... | 08:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Kaadlajk: well, internet tells me you *should* know better about RAM in N950 :-D | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I'll update my wetware records about that factoid | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 08:41 |
| ruskie | so anything new? | 08:42 |
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| * DocScrutinizer for a moment mixed up digia with digium | 08:44 | |
| Choom | are there any flash images of the N950 available yet? | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and went "wut???" | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: yes | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: check yesterday's chanlog | 08:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: really short of a good story about why ruby is non-free. BSD licence or sth? | 08:48 |
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| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: in Debian it is in main, license looks like GPL | custom-license | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | NFC | 08:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | isn't there some sort of rationale in a README somewhere up-path non-free? | 08:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd think Nokia would like to explain why this isn't a GPL violation | 08:52 |
| pabs3 | I looked at libjpeg and there wasn't any explanation why it was in non-free | 08:53 |
| *** NTU is now known as open | 08:53 | |
| pabs3 | didn't look at the others yet | 08:53 |
| pabs3 | perhaps I should mail the folks listed in the changelog.Debian.gz :) | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | libjpeg optimizations are oss'ed to libjpeg-turbo, afaik | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess my freind Harald Welte has Nokia under close scrutination since quite some time, and they know about that | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo sts | 08:54 |
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| Stskeeps | moo | 08:54 |
| Stskeeps | why ruby is non-free, i have no idea why :) | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | maybe it used to be like that when they grabbed it | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | in debian sections | 08:55 |
| pabs3 | weird, so they sent their changes to libjpeg-turbo but aren't using libjpeg-turbo? | 08:55 |
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| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 08:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | not my domain really | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm EE, in my world SW devels are always vlose to pathological weird | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 08:56 |
| pabs3 | :) | 08:56 |
| * pabs3 considers applying for the N950 dev program with "I want to find GPL violations in Nokia's devices", that would be a fun troll | 08:57 | |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 08:58 |
| SpeedEvil | 'Researching possible violations of patents held by Apple' | 08:58 |
| ds3 | wonder if Nokia can be convinced to opensource the N900's HW as a dying gasp action | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | reminds me on that awesome tmo thread, where they suggested to convince Nokia to disclose bits by accusing them of GPL violations :-P | 08:59 |
| pabs3 | got a link? sounds hilarious | 08:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, I rarely keep such links | 08:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | recent thread, with lots of abill_uk, and I think also Stskeeps, subject along the line "Nokia please disclose closed bits! NOW, REALLY!" | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably closed meanwhile, by texrat | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | been the running gag and WTF-LOL of the week here in IRC | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps should still remember, I think it's been the last nail to the coffin he put tmo in | 09:03 |
| pabs3 | probably this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73419 | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 09:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | closed by chemist :-) | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, did I notice konttori around? | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen konttori_home | 09:10 |
| infobot | konttori_home <~konttori@80-186-91-32.elisa-mobile.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 8h 45m 27s ago, saying: 'night now all'. | 09:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ** konttori_home has joined #maemo 07:38 | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: useless | 09:12 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 09:12 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 09:15 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: aw, gee | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart timriker | 09:15 |
| * infobot accelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets timriker feel it | 09:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen ^24seven | 09:16 |
| infobot | ^24seven is currently on #maemo, last said: 'yup :P'. | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 09:16 |
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| * DocScrutinizer <<-- idiot | 09:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen divan | 09:18 |
| infobot | divan <~divan@89.209.253.77> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7h 49m 45s ago, saying: 'Aranel, 'required hacks' is ok for us :)'. | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | seen == posted sth - for her, humm | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen cyborg-one | 09:19 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: i haven't seen 'cyborg-one' | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought as much | 09:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | @N950-owners: as soon as NDA gets moot, I'd appreciate a pastebin of >>lsof|grep bme | 09:22 |
| krayon | DocScrutinizer: I've noticed that with a lot of IRC bots... I wonder why :/ The only thing I can think is if they are /away and they split/rejoin or something like that, you don't want the join msg triggering events as a "seen". | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | anybody knows if there are N950 available on developer.nokia.com remote device access program? | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i'd be surprised to see a NDA | 09:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, those who have a N950 now are reluctant to post anything resulting from any cmd on that device/OS yet. I can accept that, and wouldn't expect anything else, unless somebody really feels confident with what's ok and what's not regarding this | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | see achipa's reaction yesterday when I asked for pastebin of a bootlog | 09:28 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: well, that's because they're on protos which are probably earlier than what developers get | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | wouldn't hurt, and if it did then it hurts me, not them ;-) | 09:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or did I miss the point? | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | kinda | 09:29 |
| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: looks like only N900 on http://apu.ndhub.net/devices | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, probably my "when NDA gets moot" was a bit too brash once more | 09:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd be astonished if those with hw weren't asked to sign _some_ sort of NDA. | 09:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I meant to say "whenever you start to feel like it was opportune" | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: well, if it's the developer device programme, then i would guess not | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: i mean, in amsterdam it was just a loan agreement | 09:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you actually even acknowledge some NDA when applying for developers.nokia.com | 09:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Oh - not for those | 09:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: At that point the device was known about. | 09:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean the people who have had the n950/n9 for some time | 09:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for sure had reason to keep the fact unpublished | 09:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and achipa said "let's wait until the devel devs ship - rules are rules" OWTTE | 09:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | he even never admitted he actually has a N9(50) | 09:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just to the extent of "let's assume I might have one" | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet he doesn't do that to give him a mystery look | 09:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I know of other N9/50 owners that never even mentioned that little hint about the fact they did | 09:37 |
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| loft306 | yeah they kept it hush hush | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | in OM the guidelines about what might go public and what must not were absolutely cryptic, and even changed frequently. I expect the situation to be similar on all companies | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect | 09:40 |
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| loft306 | heh and nokia is creat at the vaporware part of it | 09:46 |
| loft306 | *great | 09:46 |
| loft306 | atleast they didnt give a date this time | 09:47 |
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| TriztN900 | looked at the photos of the new devices from Prauge, the n95p dont seem to be much thicker than the n9 | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | the main mantra at OM always been "Don't talk about properties of future products, not even you know if the product spec will stay as they are now, until rollout" | 09:54 |
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| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: OM? | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ DocScrutinizer51 | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ DocScrutinizer | 09:55 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 09:55 |
| pabs3 | oh right | 09:55 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: and that's how it went, everyone thought the N950 would come out as the n9 and then it didn't... | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 09:56 |
| Corsac | well, they had a bunch of them in the closet so instead of thrashing them they offer them as developer program | 09:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably close to the truth :-) | 09:57 |
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| loft306 | almost bought an OM back then | 09:59 |
| jacekowski | and there is working turn by turn navigation in n9 | 10:01 |
| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: you still working there? last I saw they were making a device running Windows | 10:01 |
| jacekowski | cool | 10:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: OM is basically out of business and dead | 10:01 |
| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: oh :( did you move on to Qi Hardware then? | 10:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: I never seen any windows devices from them though. Maybe you refer to that "TV" | 10:02 |
| pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: I refer to frm.fm | 10:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | pabs3: Qi is a non-profit company for now | 10:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NFC how they make a living, but for sure not with working for Qi | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka sharism | 10:03 |
| jacekowski | well, trolltech made money on Qt | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm loosely associated to them still | 10:03 |
| jacekowski | so i don't see a problem there | 10:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ? | 10:07 |
| loft306 | pabs3 framed is cool | 10:07 |
| pabs3 | loft306: agreed, shame about the OS tho :) | 10:07 |
| loft306 | ? | 10:08 |
| loft306 | winders? | 10:08 |
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| loft306 | this makus he want to hack one together | 10:09 |
| loft306 | geez | 10:09 |
| loft306 | *makes me | 10:09 |
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| pabs3 | loft306: Windows 7, yeah | 10:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | *burrp* | 10:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway openmoko.com is NOT openmoko.org | 10:11 |
| * loft306 looks at his nv running linux that he couldnt get lg to send the source for | 10:11 | |
| loft306 | *tv | 10:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how do you know it's linux? | 10:12 |
| loft306 | therle is a paragraph in the manual on how to get the linux source for it | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh | 10:13 |
| * DocScrutinizer digs for the manual of his LG32 | 10:13 | |
| loft306 | but i hear tha t they dont send the complete source if they send anything... they send just the bits they added and let you figure out where they go... but like i said i didnt get anything so i cant confirm | 10:14 |
| * DocScrutinizer considers unpacking/dissecting the firmware update blob.bin he got for LG32 | 10:15 | |
| loft306 | hehehe | 10:15 |
| pabs3 | loft306: sic the SFLC or gpl-violations.org onto them | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka Harald Welte | 10:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (btw co-founder of OM, just if you didn't know) | 10:16 |
| pabs3 | (also extremely awesome) | 10:17 |
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| loft306 | awww geez | 10:17 |
| loft306 | small world | 10:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns while sigterm'ing a ns-plugin-viewer eating 50% aka 1 core of laptop's CPU since hours | 10:20 | |
| loft306 | i gotso many toys tere that i can find nso time to play with any of them | 10:21 |
| loft306 | *no | 10:21 |
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| loft306 | my pillows calling nn | 10:29 |
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| RST38h | http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/ | 10:31 |
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| Khertan | Morning | 11:03 |
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| Khertan | http://wiki.meego.com/Documentation_for_pyside-assistant | 11:09 |
| Khertan | oups | 11:09 |
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| mece | Nice: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1035259&postcount=370 | 11:12 |
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| cloudyLights | Khertan: hi there | 11:19 |
| Corsac | harmattan page on nokia developper wiki are painful to read | 11:19 |
| cloudyLights | Khertan: I now use this: https://code.google.com/p/switch-profile-by-meeting/source/browse/trunk/src/makeSwitch.py | 11:20 |
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| cloudyLights | does anyone know a nice tool to read xml? | 11:29 |
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| RST38h | libxml? | 11:30 |
| Corsac | cat ? | 11:30 |
| ruskie | there are some perl tools for it | 11:32 |
| ruskie | xml-twig | 11:32 |
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| krayon | cloudyLights: xsltproc | 11:40 |
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| MohammadAG | QtXml | 11:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | XMLMaker - just kidding | 11:56 |
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| * haj loves the right click -> reinstall function in Parallels Virtual Automation ... | 11:59 | |
| haj | for windows servers... ;) | 11:59 |
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| jhb | does the cssu update touch anything of my boot setup? | 12:21 |
| ruskie | if it updates the relevant packages yes | 12:22 |
| ruskie | but that depends on the update | 12:22 |
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| jhb | ruskie: I am not using cssu so far, and have mb (I know). I wouldn't like the to get into a state where I can't use backupmenu to switch back | 12:23 |
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| mece | Looking at the N9, I want more icons in the quick launch. 8 icons would be perfect. | 12:33 |
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| Termana | good morning | 12:37 |
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| mece | Termana, \o | 12:40 |
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| Khertan | cloudyLights: hi ! | 12:44 |
| Khertan | cloudyLights: the future way to package python apps : http://wiki.meego.com/Documentation_for_pyside-assistant | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: rpm and deb support? | 12:47 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: as it s a distutils extension, Distutils can build rpm too | 12:48 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan: Well the only thing you need to create is .dsc debian.tar.gz and spec. | 12:49 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: i was using sdist_maemo ... so i use the same distutils script to build rpm and deb | 12:49 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: yep but this way using distutils you can also build .exe, register to pypi | 12:50 |
| Khertan | it s the standard python tools to build python package | 12:50 |
| Khertan | and so one packaging tool for all | 12:50 |
| Khertan | http://khertan.net/python_sdist_maemo | 12:50 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: Yes, but make sure that it creates source packages too. As the only way for people to actually publish their app is by providing the source package. | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | No binary distribution. | 12:51 |
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| Khertan | X-Fade: yep ... i didn't know well how pyside-assistant works ... but if it didn't build source packages ... i ll probably add this option to it, or continue sdist_maemo development | 12:52 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan: It would rock if you can just package your app, so that you can submit it to an obs for instance. | 12:53 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: i'm working on it :) | 12:53 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: at least for creating debian package it s already working for obs | 12:54 |
| X-Fade | And if you have deb and rpm at the same time, then people can develop for meego and harmattan at the same time. | 12:54 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: now ... rpm at the same time will be better | 12:54 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: this is my goal :) | 12:54 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: good :D | 12:54 |
| * Khertan before Maemo didn't know anything about packaging. It s amazing that now i'm creating tool to help user to build package | 12:55 | |
| * Khertan thanks a lot X-Fade for his patience :) | 12:55 | |
| Khertan | X-Fade: about distributing app for harmattan does there is documentation about it ? | 12:56 |
| Khertan | addition in the packages information, section ? | 12:57 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: No, not yet. I'm working on the OBS target for Harmattan atm. | 12:57 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: obs too ... huM ... really good :) | 12:57 |
| X-Fade | Yes, at meego community obs. | 12:58 |
| ruskie | http://allthingsd.com/20110621/meet-the-stealthy-start-up-that-aims-to-sharpen-focus-of-entire-camera-industry/ | 12:59 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: could you remember me the url ? it s not in the wiki : http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder | 12:59 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:59 |
| kerio | so... apparently meego is all kinds of shiny | 13:00 |
| kerio | why the hell is nokia not going to use it for nerdphones | 13:00 |
| X-Fade | https://build.pub.meego.com/ | 13:00 |
| Khertan | thx | 13:00 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan: Can you add a nice prominent link? The ([1]) is a bit subtle | 13:03 |
| Khertan | link added in the wiki | 13:03 |
| Khertan | Jaffa: yep | 13:03 |
| Khertan | look at the last minor edit :) | 13:03 |
| Khertan | already done | 13:03 |
| * Khertan didn't click on the preview button <---- it s a shame | 13:03 | |
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| Khertan | ouch ... didn't remember password | 13:08 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: meego.com account | 13:08 |
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| Khertan | X-Fade: oh ... indeed ... this explain what it wasn't the same password than before | 13:09 |
| Khertan | thx | 13:09 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:09 |
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| Jaffa | Attitude running in the Harmattan Qt SDK http://bleb.org/software/maemo/harmattan-attitude-sdk.png | 13:14 |
| chem|st | mece: looking at the N9 I want another phone... | 13:14 |
| Khertan | chem|st: yep i want an n950 :) | 13:15 |
| nid0 | personally i'd like a properly commercially available n950 with the n9's spec :< | 13:15 |
| Khertan | nid0: an n9 with a keyboard so :) | 13:16 |
| nid0 | indeed. | 13:16 |
| Khertan | Jaffa: did you have time to try what Khweeteur look like in the sdk ? | 13:17 |
| Khertan | Jaffa: https://gitorious.org/khweeteur | 13:17 |
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| Khertan | my sdk install failed and break my debian :( | 13:17 |
| KMFDM | i think almost every n900 user would prefer an n950 that was commercially available with n9's spec. the phone was originally going to launch nokia's new platform thus needed to be more 'consumer friendly' which they think means no keyboards | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: No. I've managed to get three apps running: two of them already pre-installed and my own QML app | 13:17 |
| Khertan | not the fault of the sdk ... / full :) | 13:18 |
| Khertan | Jaffa: no prob :) | 13:18 |
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| mece | I really want both N9 and N950. Want N950 for hacking and coding and N9 because it's shiny and have sexy screen and nfc... | 13:27 |
| Appiah | I want evertyhing | 13:28 |
| mece | but yeah KMFDM, N900 users probly would rather have N950, if it were commercial. | 13:28 |
| Appiah | so people will think I'm cool | 13:28 |
| mece | Appiah, it's also cool to not have something. NOT having an android or iOS device is cool :) | 13:28 |
| Appiah | :D | 13:28 |
| nid0 | my fingers are just crossed that nokia puts out an updated commercial n950 replacement at some point :< | 13:30 |
| nid0 | e9 maybe? | 13:30 |
| mece | nid0, who knows what the future brings. I really hope the N9 is a commercial success. | 13:30 |
| mece | at least it's getting great press | 13:31 |
| mece | better than any nok phone in years! | 13:31 |
| cehteh | n9 is a dead horse | 13:31 |
| cehteh | beautiful dead horse :P | 13:31 |
| cehteh | all hail to elop | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: sometimes I have NFC myself ;-P | 13:33 |
| Corsac | hmhm, anyone knows what HS means in nokia devices context? | 13:33 |
| nid0 | its a dead horse that can be revived very quickly though. right from the outset, the spending examples elop presented showed nokia's going to continue investing in meego development, all it takes is one statement from him clearing that up saying "yes we are committing to future meego development and devices" and suddenly the horse is very much alive again | 13:33 |
| mece | Corsac, Helsingin Sanomat? | 13:33 |
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| Corsac | ? | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: High Security? | 13:33 |
| nid0 | and my fingers are just crossed that he'll do that on the back of very positive reactions to the n9 | 13:33 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: might be, but what does it corresponds to? | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: omap | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | nid0: indeed | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | (elop) | 13:34 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, nid0, that would make ballmer shit a brick :D | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and is the reason why this won't ever happen | 13:35 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: that's stil a bit scarse, it's definitely related to omap security extensions and trustzone, but what are hs devices? | 13:35 |
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| Stskeeps | Corsac: signed bootloader and that kind of stuff | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: n900 is a omap3 hs device stuff | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | aegis | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS | 13:36 |
| nid0 | I dont really see why, all other wp7 hardware partners use two smartphone os's, and microsoft are fully awake these days to the idea that other solutions exist | 13:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer pukes | 13:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security | 13:36 |
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| * mece hands DocScrutinizer a glass of water | 13:37 | |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: please stop with fud | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | me??? FUD? proof needed | 13:37 |
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| Corsac | you don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about, as you keep pasting maemo security slides | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: just watch and read and *understand* those simple slides at URL I posted | 13:38 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: I read them (and commented on the wiki page) since they're out | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh, so they found a way to even better assrape users? | 13:38 |
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| mece | http://twitter.com/kypeli/status/83275615779815424 | 13:39 |
| mece | http://twitter.com/vivainio/status/83276168324841473 | 13:39 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: you just fail to understand what integrity protection is | 13:39 |
| Corsac | and you just FUD, you run screaming “DRM” and that's all | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | you just fail to see how they trick you | 13:39 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: distutils bdist_rpm can be use to generate specs file, so no need other tools ;) | 13:40 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: well, at least I'm reading the source code in order to really understand what is really going on there | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 13:40 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: instead of repeatedly pasting the same pdf over and over | 13:40 |
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| Corsac | as if it would explain anything | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you got the concept, you read sourcecode only to find the flaws in imlementation | 13:41 |
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| Corsac | ok, I stop arguing | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | the concept is: no secure app will run in a tainted environment. No unsigned app may run in a clean "secure" environment | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | as you alsways got some secure apps you don't want to miss, your option to go "open" is mere hypothetical | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | furthermore you need a reboot to clean a tainted hardware | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | means: start strace ->platform enters "open" mode and is marked tainted -> all signed apps get cleaned out of mem completely. You have a device without dialer, mediaplayer, whatnot, to Nokia's sole discretion of which apps they like to sign | 13:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | reboot to revert to "normal" (whatever the meaning of "mormal" here) | 13:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | these are system immanent security requirements for such a concept of "integrity", and no reading the sourcecode will change anything, as best you can get is they failed at implementation, which would render the whole cruft useless | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | now that's FUD I like | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 13:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what's your FUD? "I read the source..."? | 13:51 |
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| mece | DocScrutinizer regarding the security bits: me: http://twitter.com/mece66/status/83484485680762880 Ville's answer: http://twitter.com/vivainio/status/83487471903576064 | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I did it again, clicked a twitter URL :-( | 14:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | always blank page after loading 99 pictures | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I'll have to add twitter.com 0.0.0.0 >>/etc/hosts | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | until they consider to fix their broken website shit | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | IOW no idea what you're trying to tell me | 14:04 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, heh ok.. | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | (and no, I'm not going to use FF or MSIE to watch that page) | 14:05 |
| mece | how about this then: http://mobile.twitter.com/mece66/status/83484485680762880 http://mobile.twitter.com/vivainio/status/83487471903576064 | 14:06 |
| mece | even your browser should manage that one | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yo, brilliant | 14:07 |
| mece | :) | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: it's absolutely easy to switch to your own stuff. But you enter tainted mode, which means commercial apps refuse to run on that system | 14:08 |
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| mece | DocScrutinizer, is that so? | 14:10 |
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| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: then just ship a manifest file | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | the transition is defined as ""set tainted flag. Stop all secure apps. Clean memeory used by secure apps (so no binary phantoms like hashes etc remain). remove the key infra. THEN start any of the insecure apps user requested"" | 14:10 |
| kep | Hello. Can i ask question about titan kernel? | 14:11 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, where are you reading this? | 14:11 |
| Corsac | he's making that up | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | in IT magazines since 2001 | 14:11 |
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| mece | DocScrutinizer, are you sure we have this on N9? | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | as that's about how long this shit is around now | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | the concept is unchanged | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | you CAN NOT change that concept, without introducing fatal vulnerabilities | 14:12 |
| kep | According to http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking#titan.27s_ULV_kernel wikipage there is ulv kernel for titan series. But how can i set up ulv values for kernel without reflashing my kernel like solution that nick "Lehto" had. | 14:12 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, N900 isn't like this... so where are you reading that N9 is like this? | 14:12 |
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| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: I'm not even sure there's a way to taint a running device, you just won't be allowed to run your strace | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | see URL above, unless they nuked it it's exactly what I referred to - even when Corsac claims they "improved" or "changed" it | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | it still has sourcecode so the concept is still alive | 14:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: when you're not allowed to switch "secure" -> "open" then that's an implememtation shortcoming | 14:14 |
| lardman | morning | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: doesn't make thaings any better, huh? | 14:15 |
| Corsac | I don't think it's written anywhere that MSSF accepts a transition from normal to hacker mode without reboot | 14:16 |
| dashavoo | As my N900 has all but completely been written off, I am sad to see that the N950 is only going to be for people on the dev schemes :( | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | the concept allows for that. No idea if "your" implementation does | 14:16 |
| Corsac | “my”? | 14:16 |
| Corsac | what exactly are you talking about? | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | """your""" | 14:16 |
| Corsac | and the concept is MSSF, there's nothing else, I think | 14:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm talking about a concept od "security" and "integrity" that's sold to users as a good thing, but indeed is a big stinking PoS | 14:18 |
| Corsac | hmhm, didn't I say that I would stop trolling? | 14:18 |
| Corsac | thank you for establishing you don't have a single clue about the whole thing | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that concept been around since MS invented fritz chip | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | or was it Intel? | 14:18 |
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| Corsac | people like you, spraying fud like that, are just hiding the real problems | 14:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: I'm happy I have no clue about your limited view of the world | 14:19 |
| Corsac | you don't make yourself a favor | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | evidently the brainwash worked excellent on you | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's just so many concepts based on a hierarchical chain of trust and integrity | 14:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't tell me Nokia invented a completely new one | 14:21 |
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| Hurrian | has anyone opened up the Maemo 6 image yet? | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's just so complex meanwhile that you *think* you can get around the immanent limitations which are: you can't run strace, gdb, $random-unsigned-tool-or-app, on a platform while keep running trusted apps concurrently | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and there's no way other than reboot to clean up a tainted environment | 14:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no matter how finegrained your resource monitoring might get | 14:24 |
| Hurrian | well, tainted mode is for devving apps, no point in debugging closed source apps :) | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: indeed. but you missed the point of global mutual exclusiveness | 14:25 |
| Hurrian | ah | 14:26 |
| Hurrian | well, we may as well be running apps in a sandbox. aaaaaaaaaaheeeeem. | 14:26 |
| mece | but where does it say n9 has any of that crap? | 14:26 |
| mece | erm | 14:26 |
| mece | or? | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | when you start GDB, you can't control which process it's going to monitor | 14:26 |
| Hurrian | mece: aegis | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically | 14:26 |
| mece | wtf is aegis? | 14:26 |
| mece | and where does it say aegis? | 14:26 |
| Hurrian | system supported DRM | 14:26 |
| Hurrian | only care about it if you're buying apps off the app store | 14:27 |
| Hurrian | Ovi has no apps. | 14:27 |
| mece | so it needs cracking... | 14:27 |
| mece | how annoying | 14:27 |
| mece | drm is made to be broken | 14:27 |
| ruskie | drm is broken by design | 14:27 |
| Hurrian | ruskie, agreed, but how do we make companies NOT put in DRM? | 14:28 |
| mece | ruskie, no kidding | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: don'T buy devices that support it | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | there's always a serial, MAC check, etc | 14:28 |
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| ruskie | what Doc said | 14:28 |
| ruskie | Hurrian, hahahaha | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | people always get around it | 14:28 |
| ruskie | MAC is pointless since it's easily changable | 14:28 |
| ruskie | even on windows systems | 14:28 |
| mece | but... | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | it's flawed, and perfectly breakable | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: not THIS crap | 14:29 |
| mece | vivainio said you can run anything installed from a deb | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: unless they messed it up | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | Doc: what crap? | 14:29 |
| ruskie | mece, yeah from what I understood it was something along the lines of you can have DRM enabled and limited to what you can do ... or disable it and do whatever but lack access to DRMed stuff | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | the signed bootlaoder, to start with | 14:29 |
| ruskie | atleast from what I've read before | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | wait a second, the N9's bootloader is signed? | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | that hands credentials (=trust/integrity) to a signed kernel | 14:30 |
| mece | most likely. | 14:30 |
| Choom | what's the TLDR of this argument? the N9 comes with trusted computing modules? | 14:30 |
| jaska | heh, do they really keep the dialer in hitlermode? | 14:30 |
| jaska | thats pretty awful if they do | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | even N900 BL is signed | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | (1st stage) | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: OMAP | 14:31 |
| Choom | I'm assuming, from the two pages of scrollback that I've read, that they are being used | 14:31 |
| Hurrian | Doc: the N900's 0th stage is ROM, and apparently verifies any NOLO image fed to it | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed NLDR or what's the neame is 1st stage after ROM, and that one is signed, and load an unsigned NOLO (still?) | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | XLDR? | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOLO is 2nd dtage | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | stage* | 14:33 |
| Hurrian | iirc it's the secure ROM found inside the OMAP | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | with PR1.2 they shiped some new NOLO, "for making development of security framework on meego possible" | 14:34 |
| Hurrian | brb, it's about time the EMMC image coughed up the bins | 14:34 |
| mece | achipa, N9 or N950? | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and now I have to face Corsacs etc calling my concerns FUD | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | THANKS | 14:35 |
| achipa | mece: N950 | 14:36 |
| mece | achipa, nice :) | 14:36 |
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| achipa | N9 is really nice, but I realized I'm really a N950 guy | 14:37 |
| achipa | too much really, but really :) | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I hope I demonstrated my complete cluelessness regarding concept of "integrity" to a sufficient extent during the last 45 min, and wish you all a nice afternoon, morning, night, whatever | 14:37 |
| Khertan | achipa: +1 | 14:37 |
| cloudyLights | bye bye | 14:38 |
| cloudyLights | achipa: +2 | 14:38 |
| Khertan | achipa: did you see the video of n950 | 14:38 |
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| achipa | Khertan: umm, I saw one video... a polish one ? | 14:38 |
| Khertan | achipa: yep | 14:38 |
| Khertan | achipa: Tweet from Nokia N9 <<< huhu ! | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing# | 14:39 |
| cloudyLights | Khertan: can you pls help me with releasing my app? | 14:39 |
| Khertan | cloudyLights: whar is the problem ? | 14:39 |
| Khertan | s/whar/what | 14:39 |
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| cloudyLights | well I changed the pypackager file again, to make the status menu show the button | 14:40 |
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| achipa | yep, no longer have to hide behind "via iPhone" :P | 14:40 |
| RST38h | DocScrutinizer <-- one hell of a morbid complaining FUDder | 14:40 |
| Khertan | hihi | 14:40 |
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| cloudyLights | but I need to test a clean install on a N900 | 14:40 |
| mece | achipa, post boot log and dmesg plz? | 14:40 |
| cloudyLights | "just to know it works" | 14:40 |
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| RST38h | Doc: You will be absolutely happy with DRM! =) | 14:40 |
| cloudyLights | I can't get scratchbox to do X on my 64 bit pc | 14:41 |
| Khertan | cloudyLights: same problem here :) | 14:41 |
| cloudyLights | and I have asked all ppl I know to :"just install it" | 14:41 |
| Khertan | cloudyLights: as i never install your app ... i can install it on my device :) | 14:41 |
| cloudyLights | how can I release a package Ididnt test? | 14:41 |
| Khertan | cloudyLights: extras devel :) | 14:41 |
| Corsac | Khertan: can the video be watched without flash? | 14:42 |
| achipa | mece: as said, the moment we give the first one in somebody's hand, you'll have it, sorry, can't do better than that :( | 14:42 |
| Khertan | cloudyLights: or simply do a binary build | 14:42 |
| mece | achipa, no worries :) | 14:42 |
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| cloudyLights | Khertan: I need one person to say "it works" | 14:42 |
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| Khertan | Corsac: youtube provide html5 video no ? | 14:42 |
| Khertan | cloudyLights: where is the deb file ? | 14:42 |
| cloudyLights | https://code.google.com/p/switch-profile-by-meeting/downloads/list | 14:43 |
| cloudyLights | I even have the source open there - so you can verify its ok | 14:43 |
| cloudyLights | most ppl fear this maybe malware | 14:43 |
| Corsac | Khertan: yeah, do you have the youtube link? | 14:43 |
| cloudyLights | but I just wrote a few python lines.... | 14:44 |
| Hurrian | running binwalk now on the image files :D | 14:47 |
| Khertan | Corsac: http://www.meegofrance.com/2011/06/video-du-nokia-n950/ | 14:47 |
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| Khertan | cloudyLights: ? | 14:51 |
| cloudyLights | I mean: one can't just install software from an unknown source | 14:51 |
| cloudyLights | ppl should fear installing unknown software (spoken like a true security expert) | 14:52 |
| ruskie | rofl | 14:52 |
| cloudyLights | yet I need to test my first app | 14:52 |
| mece | cloudyLights, what is the problem? | 14:53 |
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| cloudyLights | here is another app I would love to have: "find my wife" | 14:53 |
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| cloudyLights | mece: pls install my new app , and tell em if it works | 14:53 |
| cloudyLights | so I can submit it to devel-extras | 14:53 |
| ruskie | the point is you submit it there and then people test it | 14:54 |
| cloudyLights | the "wife" installs the prog and yu do | 14:54 |
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| mece | cloudyLights, what ruskie said | 14:54 |
| cloudyLights | o ok... emm | 14:54 |
| mece | cloudyLights, you don't have a device yourself? | 14:54 |
| ruskie | all due to some bugga bugga scary thing that people have about using non-main repositories... what's the point of having this option then even in... | 14:54 |
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| cloudyLights | so if your "wife" is bad with navagating, you can get to her | 14:55 |
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| cloudyLights | mece: I allready have it running | 14:55 |
| mece | cloudyLights, so it works. | 14:55 |
| cloudyLights | well, maybe Khertan would verify it , and I would submit it | 14:56 |
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| mece | cloudyLights, if it works on your device, you can upload it to devel and then ask someone to test it. | 14:57 |
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| khertan | re | 14:58 |
| khertan | disconnected | 14:58 |
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| khertan | héhé ... just send me the deb package | 14:58 |
| khertan | i ll say you if it s works or not | 14:58 |
| khertan | do not fear ... i ll install it on my 2nd n900 which i use for that | 14:59 |
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| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-security-discussion/2011-June/000176.html | 15:00 |
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| cloudyLights | I find I waste a lot of time finding my wife , even when she is "near me | 15:01 |
| Hurrian | yeeeeeehaw, mounted mmc0 image | 15:01 |
| mece | Hurrian, umm.. | 15:01 |
| Hurrian | time to look for the ext4 inside it | 15:01 |
| mece | Hurrian, ah ok :) | 15:01 |
| cloudyLights | Khertan: https://switch-profile-by-meeting.googlecode.com/files/switch-profile-by-meeting_0.0.1-1_all.deb | 15:01 |
| Corsac | Hurrian: from which image? | 15:03 |
| Hurrian | N950 | 15:04 |
| Hurrian | mmc1 image is blank | 15:04 |
| khertan | ? | 15:04 |
| Corsac | hmhm, and where did you get it from? | 15:04 |
| Corsac | I think I only saw some rootstrap for sdk | 15:04 |
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| Hurrian | nokia n950 site | 15:05 |
| Hurrian | i'm going to try the rootfs later | 15:05 |
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| Corsac | Hurrian: hmhm, what n950 site, the harmattan-dev one? | 15:06 |
| Corsac | or the swipe stuff? | 15:06 |
| mece | harmattan-dev | 15:06 |
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| khertan | cloudyLights: nothing in status menu after install | 15:07 |
| cloudyLights | :-( | 15:07 |
| _trine | http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dder%2Bspiegel%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1250%26bih%3D754%26prmd%3Divns&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/gadgets/0,1518,769589,00.html&usg=ALkJrhj9hPJCeisODA5dDpiqKTpWIoQpYQ | 15:07 |
| cloudyLights | can you pls open a root shell and pkill status? | 15:07 |
| RST38h | give us a summary please | 15:08 |
| * Arkenoi wonders if n950 overclocks and what is maximum safe frequency | 15:08 | |
| Corsac | Hurrian: hmhm then I fail to see a rootfs | 15:08 |
| Arkenoi | despite all FUD, i found no side effects of being overclocked for an year on n900 | 15:09 |
| RST38h | also, will it blend? | 15:09 |
| cloudyLights | Khertan: sorry new deb is: https://code.google.com/p/switch-profile-by-meeting/source/browse/trunk/deb/switch-profile-by-meeting_0.0.1-1_all.deb | 15:09 |
| Hurrian | rootfs.lzo | 15:09 |
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| Arkenoi | ah, actually almost 1.5 years now | 15:09 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: nothing more after status reboot | 15:09 |
| cloudyLights | https://switch-profile-by-meeting.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/deb/switch-profile-by-meeting_0.0.1-1_all.deb | 15:10 |
| * mece wonders if the N9 and/or the N950 have fm receiver / transmitter hardware | 15:10 | |
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| jpinx-away | mece: and a TV and dual sim - like my chinese device ;) | 15:11 |
| Hurrian | damn nokia, the rootfs.lzo image does NOT look like a lzo image | 15:11 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/22/meego_and_betrayal_myths/ | 15:11 |
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| khertan | ***mece wonders if the N9 and/or the N950 have fm receiver / transmitter hardware <<< no fm transmitter | 15:13 |
| cehteh | ir transmitter? ... no | 15:14 |
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| flux | too bad, it's a great toy when you need it. although, external fm transmitters are cheap and easy to use I imagine. | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | khertan: None officially | 15:14 |
| khertan | Jaffa: indeed ... officially :) | 15:14 |
| khertan | flux: fm transmitter never work in Paris | 15:15 |
| khertan | too much parasite | 15:15 |
| khertan | too much noise | 15:15 |
| flux | well, happily I don't live in Paris :) | 15:15 |
| khertan | :) | 15:15 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: did it s works on your device ? | 15:16 |
| cloudyLights | yes | 15:16 |
| cloudyLights | but I used it to develop | 15:16 |
| cloudyLights | so there maybe missing peaces | 15:16 |
| flux | although it's not always that easy to find a proper freq here in Finland either, if you're driving long distances | 15:16 |
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| flux | but I never tried boosting the fm tx, maybe it would've helped | 15:17 |
| mece | flux, well it's as much of a toy for me as any other method of getting sound from phone to something with nice speakers. And of course it must be boosted to work :) | 15:17 |
| cehteh | besides i bet the n9 will be insanely expensive ... nokia isnt really about selling masses of it, they just have to fulfill some obligations/contracts | 15:17 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: probably missing dependencies ;) | 15:18 |
| cloudyLights | can you run : cruxEve6 | 15:18 |
| Hurrian | i'm starting to think flasher puts the rootfs files together | 15:18 |
| cloudyLights | sorry | 15:18 |
| dashavoo | I missed most of the discussion that was inevitably above, but does anyone have any idea how dev-friendly the N9 will be? | 15:18 |
| gri | Is there some sort of mailing list / forum / wiki for the harmattan sdk? I mean with explanations (why the emulator cannot run any menu entries but manual start works sometimes) or whether to use meegotouch or qml etc.? | 15:19 |
| cloudyLights | can you run : /usr/lib/switchProfByMeeting/switch_backend.py | 15:19 |
| cloudyLights | as user | 15:19 |
| khertan | line 53 undefined name status | 15:19 |
| khertan | line 64 | 15:19 |
| khertan | same | 15:19 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: Andrew Orlowski is a troll | 15:19 |
| khertan | pyflakes result :) | 15:19 |
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| ruskie | Jaffa, but a good one at that ;) | 15:20 |
| cloudyLights | khertan: thnaks | 15:20 |
| cloudyLights | thnaks! | 15:20 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: and switch_backend.py say no module gobject :) | 15:20 |
| ShadowJK | anyone see any bq* modules in n9 kernel? | 15:21 |
| cloudyLights | ok, so what does gobject belongs to.... | 15:21 |
| khertan | python-gobject | 15:21 |
| cloudyLights | so let me add it | 15:22 |
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| Hurrian | shadowjk, still haven't unpacked the images | 15:22 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 15:23 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: Well he uses the word "fanbois" in the first sentence and it doesn't take him long to cook up a conspiracy theory of conspiracy theories, using it to knock DEC, Sun, IBM *and* Linux. | 15:23 |
| cloudyLights | khertan: where do you see line 53 undefined name status ? | 15:23 |
| Hurrian | wait | 15:23 |
| Hurrian | zImage | 15:23 |
| ruskie | Jaffa, yeah like he always does ;) | 15:23 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/switch.....py | 15:23 |
| Hurrian | 2.6.32.39-dfl61-20112P | 15:24 |
| Hurrian | RAAAAAEG | 15:24 |
| ruskie | http://xkcd.com/915/ <-- hehe | 15:24 |
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| javispedro | jaffa: bet you are scared with arjan's post getting scattered through twitter | 15:25 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Fortunately LWN's comment system is sane, so mine's underneath it :_) | 15:25 |
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| javispedro | atm, two of the items I have on my rss reader stock #meego twitter feed link to arjan's | 15:26 |
| Jaffa | Interesting icons at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LphiRFvd40I&feature=player_detailpage#t=426s - The Telegraph, Hotel Hunt, My Bank, Foursquare, YouTube, ... | 15:26 |
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| khertan | cloudyLights: in switch_backend line 159 backend variable referenced before assignement | 15:26 |
| khertan | in switch_frontend.py line 70 return_tuple undefined | 15:27 |
| nid0 | Jaffa: idd, if theyre actual apps expected to be available by launch its a good start | 15:27 |
| cloudyLights | switch_frontend.py is not used now | 15:27 |
| jhb | hi *. when I ssh into my n900 I can login, but sometimes the connection just hangs. It seems to work quite nice the other way around n900->laptop. Its only happening with this ap, any ideas (besides changing ap?) | 15:27 |
| nid0 | change ap or change n900's power saving | 15:27 |
| khertan | jhb: economy saver | 15:28 |
| jhb | khertan: saving is disables, ping is running in bg from n900 | 15:28 |
| jhb | disabled | 15:28 |
| khertan | so swith ap :) | 15:28 |
| khertan | cloudyLights: pyflakes is really usefull ... is available on n900 and is integrated in KhtEditor you should try it | 15:29 |
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| cloudyLights | ok | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: I'm trying to do my own Twitter frenzy then | 15:29 |
| cloudyLights | thnaks | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: https://twitter.com/#!/jaffa2/statuses/83511858170052609 | 15:29 |
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| jhb | khertan: no such setting on the ap :-( | 15:32 |
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| khertan | i mean use other ap | 15:33 |
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| edheldil | speaking of OS/2, was not it Microsoft who pulled from OS/2, effectively sinking the project because of incompatibility with windows apps? | 15:33 |
| javispedro | jaffa: but there's no news like na | 15:33 |
| javispedro | like bad news | 15:33 |
| javispedro | so you're going to have a hard time | 15:34 |
| RST38h | moo javispedro | 15:34 |
| javispedro | maybe it's time I make my first twit. | 15:34 |
| RST38h | TheRegister article is good, professional trolling | 15:34 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Woo | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Lots of truth there | 15:34 |
| javispedro | hi there RST38h | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Whether it completely describes the Meego situation is a whole different question though | 15:34 |
| * ruskie wonders if there will ever be a device to replace the N900 from Nokia... | 15:34 | |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I dunno, "fanbois" as the second word and conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories... | 15:34 |
| lardman | javispedro: s/twit/tweet ? | 15:35 |
| javispedro | rst38h: I call those the "convenient" truth | 15:35 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, I did read beyond the keywords and to the end | 15:35 |
| ruskie | Jaffa, that's more or less their usual writting style | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: Depends what you use your N900 for. It's either the N950 or N9. Ain't gonna be better from Nokia in the short term | 15:35 |
| ruskie | Jaffa, but they don't sell the N950 | 15:35 |
| * lardman is sad, just handed over keys to flat he's lived in for past ~11 years | 15:35 | |
| ShadowJK | znd N950 us unobtanium | 15:35 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: One thing is, his musings of Nokia CEO being realist do not quite explain other quirks in his behaviour | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I read to the end (skimmed the bits about IBM & OS/2, I've read enough about that) | 15:35 |
| ruskie | so that can't be a valid choice in this case | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: You didn't say "sell". You said, "if there'll ever be a replacement from Nokia" | 15:36 |
| Jaffa | Getting an N950 will be "from Nokia" ;-) | 15:36 |
| ruskie | well there obviously isn't | 15:36 |
| ruskie | talking general population | 15:36 |
| ruskie | not secret club | 15:36 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Secondly, I am still not buying the idea that there is no place in the world for mobile platforms other than Android and iPhone | 15:36 |
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| Appiah | wait, what secret club? | 15:36 |
| RST38h | lardman: Not changing the country though? | 15:36 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Evidence is that there's far more openness in handsets than there is in PCs, laptops or tablets. | 15:36 |
| khertan | Jaffa: will be probably hard to get an n950 | 15:37 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: The whole idea of the "race being decided, and iOS/Android have won" stikes me as a bit cheesy | 15:37 |
| ruskie | Nokia could sell the N950 to those that bought a N900... | 15:37 |
| ruskie | just have a proof of purchase and you could buy a 950... that would be nice | 15:37 |
| khertan | ruskie: they prefer so sell / give it to dev to have rapidly more apps for n9 | 15:38 |
| ShadowJK | Appiah, secret club of 250 N950 devices | 15:38 |
| Jaffa | ShadowJK: There are a few secret clubs | 15:38 |
| lardman | RST38h: no, just moving into the country - craptastic 2G only for the next couple of weeks | 15:38 |
| Appiah | ShadowJK: =( | 15:38 |
| khertan | ShadowJK: 250 is for meego foss dev and for the moment from what i understand of quim gil blog post | 15:38 |
| flux | maybe the hardware for N950 is so old with obsolete components that to build more of them they would need to redesign parts? | 15:39 |
| ruskie | flux, I thought the N9 wasn't all that different in parts used? | 15:39 |
| Termana | micro sim is rather disappointing, I'm going to have to do some SIM chopping | 15:39 |
| ShadowJK | almosst same parts I think | 15:39 |
| javispedro | flux: no | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | N950 has manufacturing/QA/cert issues | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why | 15:40 |
| ShadowJK | termana: yeah wtf. So if sim chopping fails I have to spend 20€ to get another sim and a second attempt | 15:40 |
| ruskie | Termana, hehe I'm gonna get a dual-sim one number thingy from my cellco so I can cut one up and still have one normal... and I'd like to shoot apple for the stupid microsim thing | 15:40 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer: oh really ? | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | something along that line | 15:40 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, so why not say this or an incarnation of such device might be sold later on? | 15:40 |
| RST38h | lardman: | 15:40 |
| ruskie | if it only has issues that need sorting? | 15:40 |
| RST38h | lardman: a minor adventure then =) | 15:41 |
| ShadowJK | if it's made like E7, well even the static display models in shops have the slider mechanisms broken :P | 15:41 |
| Termana | ruskie, it's more than just issues | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think it's been konttori who said they'd love to sell them in huge numbers, but they can't produce enough, for some "CE" reason | 15:41 |
| lardman | OT, but any ideas on long VGA cables + how to get edid working? | 15:41 |
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| lardman | RST38h: yeah :) | 15:41 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: The shop models are no indication | 15:41 |
| Termana | These N950s are just old prototypes, they are not being made and then shipped out. | 15:41 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: They take pretty hard handling =( | 15:41 |
| Termana | Nokia has nothing better to do with them | 15:42 |
| ruskie | ohh well here's hoping they'll eventually come up with a proper replacement eventually | 15:42 |
| RST38h | lardman: If you need a long cable, go with DVI or HDMI | 15:42 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, actual N900 on display in same shop was fine :P | 15:42 |
| Appiah | arggh | 15:42 |
| Appiah | så confusing | 15:42 |
| ShadowJK | though someone had entered a lock code for the lulz | 15:42 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Maybe nobody was interested! =) | 15:42 |
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| lardman | RST38h: not even long, just 3m | 15:42 |
| RST38h | lardman: but a 3m VGA still works, if it is a good cable | 15:43 |
| RST38h | lardman: the price not being any indication of how good it is | 15:43 |
| * ShadowJK is hoping Nokia will come out with a N900 replacement too :( | 15:43 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | also emember that old urban rumour about some maemo device got rejected by carriers due to slide being "too flimsy" or sth | 15:43 |
| lardman | RST38h: drat, so just a case of trying some more then | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | might well be exactly this N950 | 15:43 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, the N9 | 15:43 |
| Damion_ | the n950 seemed extremely robust and well made, nice rubberised plastic | 15:43 |
| Termana | ;) | 15:44 |
| ShadowJK | Termana, N9 is stupid | 15:44 |
| Damion_ | the newer black ones they're starting to give out that is | 15:44 |
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| * ShadowJK 'd much rather have a "N900i". N900 with memory/soc upgrade and everything else untouched. | 15:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer | one thing's for sure: Nokia didn't design and develp N950 on sole purpose of giving a small number of them to devels | 15:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: Yea, but do not go for the most expensive golden plated one. My experience shows that a $10 non-name cable from RadioShack works =) | 15:45 |
| ruskie | ShadowJK+++++++++++ | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yep | 15:45 |
| lardman | RST38h: long way to RadioShack from here ;) | 15:45 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: You can have it in photoshop, courtesy of many TMO open hardware designers! | 15:45 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, suit yourself but I'm sure we can all predict what is going to happen here | 15:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: YOu must have a replacement of sorts! | 15:45 |
| Termana | The same damn thing thats happened with basically every release | 15:46 |
| lardman | RST38h: yeah I know :) | 15:46 |
| ruskie | ShadowJK, and maybe a 4.5" screen | 15:46 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, I once bought a bunch of adapters and connected all my random vga cables together into a long one. worked fine :-) | 15:46 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: I was thinking of doing that actually | 15:46 |
| khertan | n950 seems the best phone i ve seen until now for me | 15:46 |
| RST38h | lardman: Hell, given the perceived conservatism of UK, it may still be selling soldering irons! | 15:46 |
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| khertan | 4", keyboard, python :) | 15:46 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Usually causes shadows at all the window edges | 15:47 |
| khertan | and it s a phone ... i didn't ask too much :) | 15:47 |
| ShadowJK | ruskie, sure, you could make a long wishlist, but this was the mininmum effort for a next model N900 replacement :-) | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | also isn't it tale telling that N950 seems available in numbers sufficient for devel device program, while N9 still is kinda vaporware? | 15:47 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Due to the signal bouncing, if I remember Wiki correctly =) | 15:47 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, so you're saying or hoping it might actually be some pre-prod device that might get polished up eventually? | 15:47 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: as RST38h said, there's still some time left for elop to cancel the entire line ;P | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 15:47 |
| RST38h | Doc: There is a comment explaining this in a thread under Arkanoid's blog post | 15:47 |
| * lardman wanders off to see if he can scrounge a 2m cable | 15:48 | |
| nid0 | DocScrutinizer, its basically obvious given all factors that the n950 is what was supposedly meant for last year or the rejected one thats just now been repurposed, and all my fingers, toes, hairs, and everything are crossed that theyll also put out a proper updated one :) | 15:48 |
| ruskie | would definately be nice | 15:48 |
| khertan | In hope we believe | 15:48 |
| Hurrian | ugh! n950 EMMC will need to be rebuilt to be able to be mounted | 15:48 |
| RST38h | Doc: Basically comes down to them planning to release N950 first, making some samples, then canceling it in favor of something that should have followed N9, then cancelling the N9 followup and consequently digging remaining N950 stash for developers until N9 is ready | 15:48 |
| Termana | I think there is a lot of misplaced hope in this channel | 15:48 |
| RST38h | Doc: [yes, I know] | 15:49 |
| khertan | Termana: ... :) | 15:49 |
| ruskie | it would be nice if the N9 sells well enough for Nokia to actually go... ok we'll run one or two products per year | 15:49 |
| * khertan hope his n900 will not die to fast ... :) | 15:49 | |
| RST38h | ruskie: "<Termana> I think there is a lot of misplaced hope in this channel" | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: why would they cancel anything? | 15:50 |
| ruskie | actually someone here @work said he is definately interested in buying the N9 | 15:50 |
| javispedro | so, gentlemen. let's make a new channel, #n950auctions, where our beloved opensource developers can bid for the single n950 that will eventually be distributed | 15:50 |
| RST38h | Doc: sigh | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not like they're short on reflow lines for manufacturing | 15:50 |
| ruskie | and he's a .NET dev... and I go.. you are aware this thing runs linux and at that not android? | 15:50 |
| khertan | javispedro: :) | 15:50 |
| * ShadowJK has 1.5 year warranty left on his N900, and a spare N900. I hope they last until a replacement is available :) | 15:50 | |
| RST38h | Doc: Ah, you do not understand anything about BUSINESS STRATEGY | 15:50 |
| ruskie | ShadowJK, hmm only half a year left on warranty on mine | 15:50 |
| nid0 | Termana, there's hope and theres sensible. The N9 getting positive previews even from the likes of engadget should be a hint to nokia that theyre on to something decent, if it follows through with sales, or even if after sale reviews are positive except for the lack of continued support, it should be a big hammer of a wake-up call that supporting meego (AND wp7) is a sensible direction | 15:50 |
| RST38h | Doc: That is why you are not a CEO like Elop! | 15:51 |
| * RST38h giggles happily | 15:51 | |
| ruskie | but I still see new with warranty sold for like 200eur or so | 15:51 |
| khertan | RST38h: business strategy is a myth, money governance not | 15:51 |
| ShadowJK | ruskie, basically I bought a second one because I thought Nokia Care had stolen my first one | 15:51 |
| ruskie | ahh | 15:51 |
| Termana | nid0, I was mainly referring to people putting too much hope in seeing the n950 in future as a retail product | 15:51 |
| ruskie | don't think we get nokia care here | 15:51 |
| ruskie | just the local nokia importer that also runs the service(and has since forever) | 15:52 |
| khertan | ruskie: and don't think that nokia cares | 15:52 |
| khertan | :) | 15:52 |
| mece | ruskie, you get nokia don't care | 15:52 |
| khertan | huhu easy | 15:52 |
| mece | well they cared enough to fix my n900 in 3 hours :) | 15:52 |
| ruskie | though sadly one has to haggle with them like with all other repair services here | 15:52 |
| Termana | nid0, also, it's going to be very hard for Elop to suddenly back out of the Microsoft deal, even if the N9 sells really well. | 15:52 |
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| ruskie | mece, someone had to go to nokia croatia and for them to slam down on this lot so they repaired the usb plug on his n900 | 15:52 |
| ruskie | Termana, nobody said they should back out | 15:53 |
| javispedro | there's no friggin way after the billion dollars of bribery microsoft already sent | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, a product may get binned when it turns out it takes too long to market so it's obsolete on sales start. | 15:53 |
| ShadowJK | not here either, it actually cost like 40€ to get warranty service (and then it took 2 round-trips, a month each) | 15:53 |
| nid0 | Termana: why would he need to back out of the deal - If anyone can support 2 platforms it (should) be nokia, and plenty of other manufactures do | 15:53 |
| Hurrian | oh waaaaaait. the EMMC image contains nothing but it's MyDocs | 15:53 |
| ruskie | Termana, hell nokia already supports quite a few | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I never seen a company cancel a product prematurely "to do something different" | 15:53 |
| mece | I don't really see how WP7 has anything to do with MeeGo. They could exist parallel to eachother just fine IMO. | 15:53 |
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| ruskie | or "supports" | 15:53 |
| ruskie | since Nokia really isn't that good with supporting anything that much | 15:53 |
| Termana | Has anyone seen the contract between Nokia and Microsoft? We don't know if the contract has locked Nokia in to a WP7 plan | 15:53 |
| javispedro | because "THE DEAL" seemingly has Nokia's primery phone platform being WP7. No other one | 15:53 |
| javispedro | at least it looks like that. Or Elop is a damn fine troll. | 15:54 |
| nid0 | "primary" doesnt equal "only" though | 15:54 |
| javispedro | where is that "plan b is making sure plan a" works quote? | 15:54 |
| Termana | Secondly, it will be a PR disaster for Elop and Nokia | 15:54 |
| ruskie | Termana, Nokia said they'll keep chugging out S40 devices | 15:54 |
| mece | javispedro, whatever, could still have MeeGo as superduper awesome phone, without it being primary. | 15:54 |
| javispedro | mece: no. just look at half the reviews. | 15:55 |
| RST38h | javispedro: It is absent, currently being analyzed by best Wall Street analysts and psychiatrists | 15:55 |
| Termana | If Elop does not stick to the deal he made, people will continue to lose confidence in what Nokia is doing | 15:55 |
| mece | javispedro, which half? | 15:55 |
| nid0 | plans change. it took less than 6 months for elop to kill symbian and switch to wp7, from his "plan b is plan a" comment itll be roughly 6 months more to the release of the n9 | 15:55 |
| javispedro | mece: the gizmodo half. | 15:55 |
| mece | javispedro, the ones that didn't even look at the device you mean? | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: that's logically impossible | 15:55 |
| javispedro | noone looked at the device tbh. | 15:55 |
| RST38h | In the very worst case, they can just buy some HTC WP7 phones and replace the logos with Nokia ones | 15:56 |
| mece | engadget looked at the device | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can't lose nonexistent | 15:56 |
| khertan | achipa too :) | 15:56 |
| RST38h | After all, this is what Microsoft has done with Zune | 15:56 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, heh :p | 15:56 |
| javispedro | the engadget half is like "ooh, shiny ipod-style bezel", "meegotouchhome animations look fluid". | 15:56 |
| javispedro | while the gizmodo half is like "oooh, crappy maemo. bad boy!" | 15:56 |
| khertan | and ... nokia should use android | 15:56 |
| javispedro | noone even ran an application | 15:56 |
| RST38h | javispedro: this is disturbing | 15:56 |
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| Termana | khertan, oh you are a little troll aren't you! ;) | 15:56 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I mean, Gizmodo fanboys disagreeing with Engadget fanboys is very disturbing | 15:57 |
| khertan | but gizmodo and engadget is know to have plenty stupid comment | 15:57 |
| khertan | i didn't read anymore comments on this site | 15:57 |
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| khertan | (if we can call that a site ... it s more a giant catalog of advert) | 15:57 |
| mece | well imo engadget looked at the device and said it was nice while gizmodo said "nokia releases a pointless device" and said nothing about the device. At all. Same did bbc. | 15:57 |
| javispedro | RST38h: it's not a profound disagreement though. | 15:58 |
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| nid0 | the bbc listened to "industry watchers" which seems to = gizmodo. | 15:58 |
| mece | yep | 15:58 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Still, ain't they supposed to be the exactly same people? | 15:58 |
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| Termana | BBC? Since when did anyone look at the BBC for tech news? :p | 15:58 |
| javispedro | RST38h: well, the cult might not mandate how you bash the other phones =) | 15:59 |
| mece | well the bbc noticed the N9, but forgot to say anything about the device. | 15:59 |
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| mece | anyway I'm out. tata | 15:59 |
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| RST38h | Anyway, whoever of them turns out to be correct, teh Tentacled One is obviously using Gizmodo/Engadget as His personal feeding grounds. So people with the brains missing... | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 16:00 |
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| thopiekar | hi.. do you know which video output works on the N900 the best? | 16:07 |
| lardman | ah, I wondered what happened to Jussi. Marketting manager for the N9 afaict (http://thenokiablog.com/2011/06/21/nokia-n9-ui/) | 16:07 |
| ShadowJK | 800x480 h264 baseline profile | 16:08 |
| ShadowJK | main and high will not work | 16:08 |
| lardman | Ovi Store, I thought that had been dropped? Or is it just the name that has been dropped? | 16:08 |
| RST38h | lardman: I guess the promo materials were done before Elop keworked "Ovi" brand | 16:08 |
| lardman | Fair enough | 16:09 |
| thopiekar | ShadowJK: thanks, but what about the codec output? opengl es? fbdev? XVideo for example is a bit slow as I can see.. | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thopiekar: aiui video is a special fbdev | 16:10 |
| javispedro | xv should work | 16:10 |
| ShadowJK | it's same backend as xv | 16:10 |
| javispedro | xv is what the default mediaplayer uses. | 16:10 |
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| ShadowJK | also note that if you're trying to decode on CPU in software, 352x288 is probably max sane resolution | 16:11 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Depends on the CPU | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sigh | 16:12 |
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| * DocScrutinizer suggests RST38h gets his context buffer fixed | 16:12 | |
| ShadowJK | as he said N900 I assumed the default N900 cpu overclocked to 600 MHz | 16:12 |
| javispedro | so. I wonder what replaces xv in wayland ;= | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: isn't xv basically about shipping frames off and aligning with vsync? | 16:13 |
| vi__ | what is an NOLO? | 16:13 |
| RST38h | Doc: *My* context buffer is firmly fixed! | 16:13 |
| ShadowJK | stskeeps: no | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | ok, educat me | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | +e | 16:13 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: I can bet the answer is a "pure client library without any server dependencies at all"? | 16:13 |
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| Termana | vi__, bootloader | 16:14 |
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| ShadowJK | stskeeps: it's about shipping frames in native video colourspace (YUV 12 bits per pixel) and native video resolution off to a hardware acceleratec colourspace transform and scaling | 16:14 |
| ShadowJK | vsync actually came to Xv as an afterthought | 16:14 |
| thopiekar | hmm I'm using XVideo in MythTV but is is very slow.. is there another output that would be faster? | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: so, a yuv 12 wayland buffer used as a texture and then rendered/scaled to screen? | 16:15 |
| thopiekar | or is it because of the high res? | 16:15 |
| scoobertron | has anyone been able to use mediabox to control a dlna renderer? I can see my sony hifi in the renderer list, but I can't make it play anything | 16:16 |
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| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: with help of gles? | 16:16 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, also used to bypass any 2D/3D GPUs as they were too slow and inefficient for video | 16:16 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: sloooooooooooooooooow | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | mmkay | 16:16 |
| javispedro | maybe with texture streaming.. | 16:16 |
| javispedro | but I could see a client library wrapping all the omapfb tricks the server xv implementation currently does | 16:17 |
| Damion_ | thopiekar: try -vo caca or aa both of those will be faster | 16:17 |
| Stskeeps | texture streaming sounds more likely | 16:17 |
| Damion_ | although the quality is lower as it uses ascii to render | 16:17 |
| javispedro | after all, my understanding of wayland is that this is about moving spooling/sharing/resource allocation/... of gfx devices to kernel, so maybe apps talking directly to kernel makes more sense. | 16:18 |
| javispedro | (at least on desktop...) | 16:18 |
| ShadowJK | It's only relatively recently that PC graphics cards became fast enough to provide usablel video performance through 3D paths | 16:18 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: but that is exactly the reason this is happening | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: well, people should have plenty ability to play with things, all my wayland work should be ready to play with sometime this summer | 16:19 |
| javispedro | if we still had slow, static, stupid gfx hw you'd hear noone talking about wayland | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: so n900, n950, n9 will be wayland capable | 16:19 |
| joppu | Stskeeps: so will there be fremantle-theme-example-stskeeps? :P | 16:19 |
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| ShadowJK | javispedro, it was fast for video, and for 3d geometry, but not for receiving, processing and displaying huge amounts of pixels :P | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | joppu: for harmattan? nfi | 16:20 |
| * SpeedEvil hates having to talk to people about wierd technical issues. | 16:21 | |
| joppu | whoops, yeah, that | 16:21 |
| javispedro | I still remember OS dev 101, where the trivial implementation of a UI server is basically give each app a piece of the framebuffer, and let each app draw there | 16:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | For some reason, today my DSL line is negotiating interleaving on, but RS forward-error-correction off. | 16:21 |
| thopiekar | Damion_: using mplayer? | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I got DSL issues as well today | 16:22 |
| ShadowJK | I hope this "yuv buffer in wayland" isn't converted to rgb software anywhere, because that'd defeat the point and you'äd be better off letting the media player do that conversion | 16:22 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Ah, you even had UI implementation? | 16:22 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Not just scheduling and resource access? | 16:22 |
| javispedro | RST38h: nope, but read a few books on the topic | 16:22 |
| joppu | Stskeeps: so how about it? | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | joppu: no idea, look at the meego ones :P | 16:22 |
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| lardman | ah good, quite extensive contact sync capabilities | 16:23 |
| Damion_ | thopiekar: I think -vo is mplayer syntax but loads of stuff, probably MythTV aswell, can do aalib and cacalib | 16:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Funnily, I did my first OS design circa 1990, with windowed (!) multiple-text-console-device (!!) OS running on 8080 :) | 16:23 |
| javispedro | either way the point is that wayland is not a new idea, but something that is a simplification that is now reasonable for the single reason that hw is more capable | 16:23 |
| javispedro | and there is more free memory | 16:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I think it died when the tape recorder chewed the cassette | 16:23 |
| joppu | Stskeeps: I am right now, it looks like a mess of billion different image slices :D | 16:24 |
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| lardman | Thanks whoever in the Harmattan team decided to let us continue using SB, rather than the Meego OBS stuff :) | 16:24 |
| javispedro | lardman++ | 16:24 |
| javispedro | lardman: though autobuilder is OBS ;) | 16:24 |
| lardman | well hidden from a mere developer like me thank God ;) | 16:25 |
| X-Fade | osc build is so much easier :) | 16:25 |
| X-Fade | A nice chroot clean every time :) | 16:25 |
| lardman | X-Fade: well perhaps it would be ok, but the Meego instructions are terrible | 16:25 |
| lardman | and just generally very confusing | 16:26 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I'm too young, my hobby OS just ran from grub =) | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen konttori | 16:27 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Yeahm well it depends on what you want to do. | 16:27 |
| infobot | konttori <~konttori@net-57.nrpn.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 5h 53m 48s ago, saying: 'genius6'. | 16:27 |
| javispedro | ~seen konttori_home | 16:27 |
| infobot | konttori_home <~konttori@80-186-91-32.elisa-mobile.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 1m 55s ago, saying: 'night now all'. | 16:27 |
| lardman | X-Fade: which to use I presume you're talking about, not the poor instructions ;) | 16:27 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: apt-get install osc; osc co -A https://api.pub.meego.com home:lardman:yourapp ; osc build | 16:28 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Done ;) | 16:28 |
| lardman | but yeah I can see the appeal for system building for sure | 16:28 |
| javispedro | too complex! | 16:28 |
| X-Fade | Ok, I leave out the cd into dir etc. But still :) | 16:28 |
| javispedro | I mean, you're comparing it to a system where you just pushed the .dsc and .tar.gz dammit | 16:28 |
| lardman | X-Fade: but there are questions, like why all the colons, how do I create this home:lardman:yourapp thing, etc. | 16:28 |
| javispedro | this one tries to force some structure and good practices onto you | 16:28 |
| javispedro | not saying it's not bad, but it's.. .complex. | 16:28 |
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| javispedro | s/it's not bad/it's bad :P | 16:29 |
| ShadowJK | and what repos do you need for osc | 16:29 |
| lardman | if someone would write a "moving from scratchbox to osc" wiki page that would be great | 16:29 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: it is in ubuntu repo too. | 16:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: But what goes *in* the dir? | 16:29 |
| vi__ | can somone email elop and ask for my NIT back? | 16:29 |
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| ShadowJK | "too"? | 16:30 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: tarball, .dsc and debian.tar.gz, specfile if you want :) | 16:30 |
| lardman | X-Fade: this is what needs to be written in the above page | 16:30 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Yes, unstable can also be downloaded from opensuse. | 16:30 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: If we can combine your example, with answers to lardman's and my questions, in a simple worked example for a printf("Hello world") app targetting Harmattan deb & MeeGo RPM; that'd be fab | 16:30 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Oh, so you still have to do the dpkg-buildpackage yourself? | 16:30 |
| Jaffa | (to get the tarball & .dsc) | 16:31 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: It is a builder, not a packager. | 16:31 |
| lardman | X-Fade: not a problem, just a lack of understanding on our part | 16:31 |
| X-Fade | But local building gives you a nice chroot. Where you can work on your package too. | 16:31 |
| lardman | we need hand-holding remember ;) | 16:31 |
| X-Fade | I have time to answer questions, but not to write complete documentation. So who can I bribe to try it out :) | 16:32 |
| ShadowJK | I so far thought you needed fedora, but I guess you need suse? | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | And write it up :D | 16:32 |
| lardman | X-Fade: if no-one else volunteers I will do it, but it won't be for a couple of weeks as I lack a net connection on my build machine atm | 16:33 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: No, you need one of the supported OSes listed here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tools/ | 16:33 |
| javispedro | no Gentoo!! | 16:34 |
| X-Fade | Or get it working in your flavour of OS. It is mostly python anyway. | 16:34 |
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| ShadowJK | ugh | 16:35 |
| lardman | X-Fade: how do I create my home:lardman dir? | 16:35 |
| lardman | is that relative to the current dir? | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | if only apt-get install build-essential would work ondevice it'd be so much simpler :D | 16:35 |
| X-Fade | lardman: go to https://build.pub.meego.com, log in and click on 'create home project'. | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | what do the colons do? | 16:35 |
| X-Fade | It is just a separator. | 16:35 |
| javispedro | btw, what's my password for cobs? | 16:36 |
| X-Fade | See it as a tree. | 16:36 |
| javispedro | ah, same as meego.com | 16:36 |
| X-Fade | meego.com account. | 16:36 |
| X-Fade | If you have requested to have access :) | 16:36 |
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| javispedro | yesterday :) | 16:36 |
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| * ShadowJK thought this was about crossbuilding on your pc :) | 16:36 | |
| X-Fade | Yeah, it can be. | 16:37 |
| Sazpaimon_ | "Oh, Nokia, shut up and take my money!" | 16:37 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | best comment all day | 16:37 |
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| X-Fade | But you can also use it to develop your app locally in a chroot without having to mess with scratchbox. | 16:37 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: so one should do all development in the home project? Or one can create new projects? Or sub-projects of the home project? | 16:37 |
| javispedro | Sazpaimon_: and we call Apple a cult... | 16:37 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Whatever you want. You can create subprojects. | 16:38 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: You should see it as repositories. So you can have multiple, you put packages in repositories. | 16:38 |
| lardman | ok | 16:38 |
| javispedro | which application should I test this with... | 16:38 |
| lardman | So I've created my home project, now I can add packages to it, what are these? From some repo, or are these the things I'm building? | 16:39 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: So you can have multiple projects in your home dir with different targets? (e.g. Fremantle, Harmattan, MeeGo, ...) | 16:39 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yes. | 16:39 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=uxlaunch&project=home%3Axfade | 16:40 |
| lardman | so does "My Projects" create projects within the home dir? | 16:40 |
| lardman | rather than some larger namespace? | 16:40 |
| X-Fade | lardman: My projects will show you everything you are involved in. | 16:40 |
| javispedro | toooooooooooooo complex | 16:41 |
| javispedro | =) | 16:41 |
| lardman | javispedro: I know, I'm just trying to work out what's going on so that I can start a wiki page with a simple example | 16:41 |
| lardman | X-Fade: how do I create a sub-project then? | 16:41 |
| javispedro | lardman: yes, I'm trying to follow here, I already have a home project too | 16:41 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Actions -> create subproject. | 16:42 |
| lardman | cool, thanks | 16:42 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Or Advanced -> subprojects | 16:42 |
| lardman | where shall I stick this wiki page? Maemo or Meego? | 16:43 |
| javispedro | lardman: both. | 16:43 |
| javispedro | lardman: a future council might decide to move fremantle to obs | 16:43 |
| lardman | Maemo for the time being then | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | lardman: I would've said MeeGo since it's build.pub.meego.com | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Are their best practices for home project Title & Description? | 16:44 |
| lardman | Jaffa: yeah but I don't know whether I have access to the wiki, I've never tried it | 16:44 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Should do, it's all shared signon | 16:44 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: No, not really. You should see it as your PPA. Some people are tidy, some make a mess :) | 16:44 |
| lardman | any thoughts on naming scheme if it's to be in the meego.com wiki? | 16:45 |
| lardman | path, etc? | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | developer.nokia.com is awesome. Yesterday I aplied 3 times for launchpad, had to fill lengthy query forms, and finally got to a page "your application been accepted" but trying to enter launchpad told me "permission missing". Today I visited same link "apply for individula membership at launchpad" and there showed up some new form "please first tell us about why you want to join".... Now they got "blablabla" in this filed which turned out | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | to be the only thing to fill in today and got sent immediately when I supposedly enetered the huge page 2 via that ok-button | 16:45 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: forget about launchpad. I register early this year and still waiting | 16:45 |
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| javispedro | no denial, no refusal, no emails at all... just a "still processing your application" page when logging in | 16:46 |
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| lardman | I think I'll go for this: http://wiki.meego.com/OBS/Scratchbox_to_OBS_in_baby_steps | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, I only got that "already processing your application" when I spinned in that endless loop yesterday, first and second time | 16:47 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Start with http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS and we'll worry about everything else later :-) | 16:47 |
| lardman | oh ok | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | third time I went directly to "you may join launchpad now" | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | which told me "perms missing" | 16:47 |
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| X-Fade | Maybe mention that it is from a developer pov. | 16:48 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Nothing so far is Scratchbox-related. Once you've got to the chroot, I imagine the difference between Scratchbox and OBS is limited | 16:48 |
| X-Fade | mairas: How's Europython? | 16:48 |
| lardman | true | 16:48 |
| javispedro | lardman: also, I think OBS and Scratchbox are not mutually exclusive | 16:48 |
| lardman | ok, will skip that part then | 16:48 |
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| javispedro | so. | 16:49 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, yuv buffer in wayland? | 16:49 |
| javispedro | I have my subproject there | 16:49 |
| javispedro | where do I define the target platforms? | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: thanks for headsup. I'll forget about that developers.nokia.com stuff then, it's obviously one huge mess | 16:49 |
| lcuk | I know there are ogl shader fragments for doing the conversion, but I too hope for still being able to use the hardware yuv overlay | 16:49 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: if they approve your application do tell, that means mine slipped out of the queue for some reason | 16:50 |
| lcuk | because that is ~20% power saving per frame | 16:50 |
| lcuk | even before the conversion from yuv to rgb is accounted for | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I doubt they will approve rasoning "blablabla" ;-P | 16:50 |
| * javispedro gets tired and leaves for the time being | 16:51 | |
| javispedro | cya later | 16:51 |
| lardman | cu javispedro | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | cya | 16:51 |
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| Macer | http://www.apnews.com/ap/db_45585/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=PIELZhxQ | 16:53 |
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| mairas | X-Fade, really cool - but I'm really busy now. later! | 16:54 |
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| Macer | :) | 16:55 |
| * Macer is holding off on the i told you so | 16:55 | |
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| X-Fade | mairas: Hehe, enjoy! | 16:56 |
| Macer | rushing to get a winmob phone out | 16:57 |
| Macer | sad nokia......sad | 16:57 |
| lardman | X-Fade: so what does osc do? | 16:57 |
| lardman | seems to do a checkout then build | 16:58 |
| lardman | does the checkout bring the code to your local machine? | 16:58 |
| X-Fade | lardman: osc can basically do whatever the webinterface can do. | 16:58 |
| anidel | Jaffa you going to the Intel AppUp in London ? SkillsMaster? | 16:58 |
| anidel | Matter | 16:58 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: osc uses basically a svn like syntax. | 16:58 |
| lardman | X-Fade: how would one use it? Like svn, checkout the empty project, add files locally, commit, then ask it to build? | 16:59 |
| X-Fade | lardman: exactly. | 16:59 |
| X-Fade | lardman: And you can build locally or remote. | 16:59 |
| lardman | how does one specify that? | 16:59 |
| X-Fade | lardman: On commit it will build remote automatically. | 17:00 |
| Jaffa | anidel: I like Skills' Matter, but not going to AppUp | 17:00 |
| X-Fade | lardman: And you can build it locally with osc build. | 17:00 |
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| lardman | oh I see, so if I commited a .doc file would it try to build that, or does it looks specifically for e.g. a .spec file? | 17:00 |
| anidel | Jaffa: ok. I will be there, so I was hoping to meet... | 17:01 |
| Jaffa | anidel: When is it? | 17:01 |
| Jaffa | anidel: Not to say I couldn't... | 17:01 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: It would see that as a new revision and rebuild. It will then after build check if the binary changed and decide to publish, or not. | 17:01 |
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| anidel | Jaffa: the 5th | 17:02 |
| anidel | of July | 17:02 |
| lardman | X-Fade: I meant if my project only contains a single .doc file (for example) | 17:02 |
| anidel | Jaffa: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/events | 17:02 |
| anidel | it's at 18:30-21:30 though | 17:02 |
| lardman | or put another way, what does one need to put in the project to have it build itself? | 17:02 |
| X-Fade | lardman: No, that won't work. | 17:02 |
| Jaffa | anidel: Nicely after work. | 17:02 |
| X-Fade | lardman: for meego: .spec and tarball. | 17:02 |
| anidel | Jaffa: yeah :) that's why I can go. There'll be people from the MeeGo London Network as well | 17:02 |
| Jaffa | anidel: However I think I'm on holiday, and've already been to an AppUp Application Lab. | 17:02 |
| * Jaffa might let people at work know | 17:03 | |
| lardman | X-Fade: and for Harmattan? | 17:03 |
| X-Fade | lardman: for debian like: .dsc tarball and debian.tar.gz | 17:03 |
| anidel | okay | 17:03 |
| lardman | cool, thanks | 17:03 |
| X-Fade | lardman: debian.tar.gz is just your debian dir in a tarball. | 17:03 |
| X-Fade | lardman: this way you keep packaging out of your source. | 17:03 |
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| lardman | ok cool | 17:04 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: You can also just add these files through the webinterface btw. | 17:04 |
| lardman | oh ok | 17:05 |
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| X-Fade | For people who do not like command line stuff. (Who wouldn't :D) | 17:06 |
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| X-Fade | osc basically talks to the obs api and the webui does that too. | 17:06 |
| Kaadlajk | webui is just a lot buggier | 17:07 |
| X-Fade | Oh yes :) | 17:07 |
| lardman | ok, so I've made a start: http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS | 17:07 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: Thanks. I've already made a tweak (having just checked apt-cache policy osc on Ubuntu Natty & Debian) | 17:09 |
| lardman | tweak away :) | 17:09 |
| lardman | we could do with some example files, or perhaps an example project space for people to look at | 17:09 |
| lardman | so your "hello world" suggestion Jaffa | 17:10 |
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| X-Fade | Yeah, that would be good. | 17:10 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: Yeah, I'll do something tonight, I think | 17:10 |
| lardman | I'm still internetless at home I'm afraid | 17:10 |
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| * lardman hopes TalkTalk get on with it | 17:11 | |
| X-Fade | Added some osc commands. | 17:13 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n9-android-app-support-promised-with-alien-dalvik-22160809/ | 17:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | dont you just love misinformation? | 17:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | just because alien dalvik exists doesnt mean oems are gonna pick it up | 17:18 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: lardman: Tweaked the formatting | 17:20 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Should the home:[username] be home:[username]:[subproject]? | 17:20 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, it was messed up. Thanks :) | 17:20 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: This is where you need technical writer skills. As you can do both. | 17:20 |
| X-Fade | With out subproject, it will pull in everything. | 17:21 |
| anidel | Let me put my humbleness a part...what happened? Xournal went from 123k downloads in second half of May to over 233k now? and it's now the Hot download?? | 17:21 |
| X-Fade | And with one specified of course only the one you specified. | 17:21 |
| Jaffa | Ah, cool. | 17:21 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Changed the first bullet to clarify that a bit. | 17:23 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: lardman: Thanks - that's just what I needed! | 17:23 |
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| Jaffa | Link it up with my "How to get Qt SDK running with Harmattan" blog post :-) | 17:24 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Now I only need to get the harmattan sdk imported and we can build for it ;) | 17:24 |
| lardman | :) | 17:24 |
| X-Fade | And all the finns are starting to disappear because of midsummer :) So busy times ahead. | 17:25 |
| X-Fade | At least now when the sdk updates, every package that depends on it is being rebuilt. | 17:26 |
| X-Fade | You got to love that :) | 17:26 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, summer means helicopters :) | 17:28 |
| lcuk | don't work too hard and great work to date on all the backend stuff \o | 17:29 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk: And have people with new devices without a build system :) Nah. I'll take a break later. | 17:30 |
| lcuk | heh | 17:30 |
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| lcuk | RFC 12345: HTTP app deliver over helicopter link ;) | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | Currently fighting with ruby. | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | Well Passenger actually. | 17:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ping * | 17:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | when did infobot die? | 17:44 |
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| khertan | Hum ... just see that KhtEditor never reach Maemo Extras | 17:47 |
| khertan | huhu | 17:47 |
| khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/khteditor/1.0.7-1/ <<< need some help :) test and vote for it please | 17:47 |
| merlin1991 | khertan: did you see my bugreport about khweeteur? | 17:48 |
| khertan | merlin1991: not yet :) | 17:48 |
| x29a | docScrutinizer: today at 1600 european time | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | x29a: thanks | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 17:49 |
| apt | ~pong | 17:49 |
| khertan | ouch ... spammer on my bugtracker | 17:49 |
| khertan | grr | 17:49 |
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| khertan | merlin1991: which bug number it was ? | 17:50 |
| merlin1991 | 826 | 17:50 |
| khertan | 826 ? You re talking about khweeteur ... sorry i was looking at khteditor :) | 17:51 |
| merlin1991 | <merlin1991> khertan: did you see my bugreport about khweeteur? | 17:52 |
| merlin1991 | I think I did talk about khweeteur :D | 17:52 |
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| khertan | you did it ... | 17:52 |
| khertan | ZN6PySide15DestroyListener8instanceEv <- an other problem with PySide install | 17:52 |
| khertan | could you apt-get update pyside libs | 17:53 |
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| khertan | did you install it from extras testing or devel ? | 17:53 |
| merlin1991 | devel | 17:53 |
| merlin1991 | hence 0.5.25-1 | 17:53 |
| merlin1991 | ah sry it's already in testing | 17:54 |
| merlin1991 | but yeah I did install from devel | 17:54 |
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| Guest36683 | Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) | 17:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders | 17:58 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 17:58 |
| apt | ~pong | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Guest36683: ping | 17:58 |
| Guest36683 | ~pong | 17:58 |
| apt | ~ping | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 17:58 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 17:59 | |
| *** apt was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 17:59 | |
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| merlin1991 | khertan: I did manually install libpyside1.0, now it segfaults when installing khweeteur instead | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | friggin netsplits | 17:59 |
| khertan | merlin1991: lol | 18:00 |
| khertan | apt-get remove khweeteur | 18:00 |
| khertan | apt-get purge | 18:00 |
| khertan | apt-get install khweeteur | 18:00 |
| merlin1991 | segfault, lol http://pastebin.com/tzKnwyhY | 18:01 |
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| merlin1991 | khertan: still the same segfault | 18:03 |
| merlin1991 | maybe the pyside packages / libs from devel are not sober? | 18:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer sings "what's the use of getting sober, when you have to get drunk agaaaiiin.... | 18:05 | |
| khertan | merlin1991: it s possible | 18:05 |
| psychologe | hi ,i have a problem,when i run some pyqt script in x-termine,it suggest:Maemo applications must be run with the run-standalone.sh script! | 18:06 |
| psychologe | QGtkStyle was unable to detect the current GTK+ theme | 18:06 |
| merlin1991 | did you try running it with run-standalone.sh? | 18:07 |
| psychologe | but some other is ok, | 18:07 |
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| psychologe | yes ,/usr/bin/run-standalone.sh: line 11: currency.pyw: not found | 18:08 |
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| hno | Is there some sane way to recover the addressbook contents from an backup without restoring it? Something broken in mine causing the addressbook to crash. | 18:11 |
| Corsac | hmhm, what is APE in an fiasco image? | 18:12 |
| psychologe | oh,i find the answer:The error comes because you tried to run it with root privileges. Run it as user. | 18:13 |
| merlin1991 | hno: do you want to restore only the adressbook part from the backup, or is that one broken? | 18:13 |
| hno | merlin1991, i suppose its the adressbook that is causing the crash | 18:14 |
| merlin1991 | well the backup consists of simple zip files and the addressbook basically is a sqlite db | 18:15 |
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| hno | everything works, except that its impossible to open the adddressbook and repeated popups about internal error adressboo terminated or something like those lines | 18:15 |
| hno | phone app seems to access the addressbook fine however. | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hno: why not restore? | 18:17 |
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| hno | DocScrutinizer, because then the addressbook crashes again. | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | err? | 18:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | you know what would be cool | 18:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if the 3.5mm port of the N9 was like | 18:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | 2 inches deep | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course you first need to clean out your current database I guess | 18:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and they came out with a component AV tv out cable | 18:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | which is probably completely possible | 18:19 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the cable would be really thick, though | 18:19 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | but the plug would need to have 5 or so contacts | 18:20 |
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| X-Fade | Sazpaimon_: No, 4. And yes it already has that? | 18:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | why 4? | 18:21 |
| X-Fade | Shared ground? | 18:21 |
| Sazpaimon_ | can you do red and white through one contact? | 18:21 |
| X-Fade | No it is composite. | 18:21 |
| Sazpaimon_ | wouldnt it need 3 contacts for RGB and 2 sound contacts | 18:21 |
| hno | DocScrutinizer, if I restore the addressbook from the backup onto a clompletely cleaned phone then adressbook app crashes. | 18:21 |
| hno | ḯll dig around a bit in the sqlite to see if i find any clue there | 18:22 |
| X-Fade | Sazpaimon_: google for ca-75u nokia | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: you'd want audio as well, so 6 | 18:22 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | X-Fade, okay and? | 18:23 |
| Corsac | arf, harmattan kernels are taken from intrepid | 18:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | that's a standard composite video cable | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Well, I want hdmi. But we're not getting that ;) | 18:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'm talking about component | 18:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | something like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/740791.jpg | 18:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | with the addition of audio | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | hno: aaaah | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, but a hdmi plug would be so much smaller ;) | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | hno: the archives/backups are really easy structure | 18:24 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i believe you can send a component signal wth sound through a 3.5mm port | 18:24 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | the plug would be slightly longer than a regular 3.5mm plug, but that wouldn't be a problem | 18:24 |
| X-Fade | That would be a problem. A 3.5mm plug is big by todays standards. | 18:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | a couple more mm in length wouldnt be a big deal | 18:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yes, an HDMI through microusb would be ideal, but I dont think itsgonna hapopen with the N9 (though neither would this) | 18:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | can the 3630 even do HDMI+sound? | 18:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i thought it can only do HDMI video | 18:26 |
| X-Fade | Sazpaimon_: Yeah, but then your battery would be 200mah smaller :) | 18:26 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | hmm, apparently the droid x does sound over hdmi too | 18:27 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so i guess the soc can do it | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | random-crap_thru_USB is usually a very poor idea, esp on devices that charge via USB as well | 18:27 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | personally I prefer DNLA streaming more than anything | 18:28 |
| Sazpaimon_ | *DLNA | 18:28 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I use it on my N900 all the time | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dlna | 18:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it's really convenient to access my media library from all my computers in my house from one device | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dict dlna | 18:29 |
| Guest36683 | could not find definition for dlna | 18:29 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, infobot is down remember :p | 18:29 |
| Termana | oh nevermind | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 18:29 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, also known as UPnP | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not infobot's master, but her elder brother | 18:30 |
| Sazpaimon_ | basically you can stream your media from your home computers to your N900 | 18:30 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | when I'm at home, the media player will automatically show the computers on my network, and I can browse the content on them | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | never got that to work here | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably caused by a lack of redmond remote-controlled boxes around | 18:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWuCoe5q3hg here's a video showing it in action | 18:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, just use mediatomb on any linux machine | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 18:33 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | i think mediatomb does transcoding too | 18:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so if you need to play media the N900 wont support natively, you're covered | 18:33 |
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| lardman|gone | cu tomorrow chaps | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | no mediatomb for me :-/ | 18:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | why? | 18:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not showing up? | 18:35 |
| hno | Gah, the addressbook is a BDB DB, not sqlite. | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | package manages says "no matches found" | 18:35 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, what OS? | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | OSuse11.2 | 18:36 |
| Sazpaimon_ | http://packman.links2linux.de/package/2154 | 18:36 |
| Sazpaimon_ | right there in pacman | 18:36 |
| * npm wonders why this crashes my browser (firefox4): http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/video-diving-into-the-nokia-n9-ui-and-specs/ | 18:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks :-) | 18:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hno: berkley, yup. Sounds about right | 18:37 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | still no word from nokia about my developer application | 18:38 |
| X-Fade | Sazpaimon_: Really, give it 2 weeks. | 18:38 |
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| hno | Is ther any available info on the BDB "schema" used? | 18:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they'll give out all the N950s by then :( | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, my user registration took only some hours | 18:39 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | user registration was instant for me | 18:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but signing up fort their developer launchpad | 18:39 |
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| crashanddie | Would you look at that | 18:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | that takes manual approval | 18:39 |
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| crashanddie | Boeing's PR took a page out of Apple's book. | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, same here, and for javispedro | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | The new interior design for Boeing's 737 passenger jet, the best-selling plane in aviation history, includes an innovation that is as radical as it is obvious: a flight attendant button that is situated well away from the reading light button and actually looks different from it. | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | "I feel we came up with a really good improvement," Beverly Wyse, Boeing's General Manager for the 737 program, told reporters at the Paris Air Show. | 18:39 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: *bing* | 18:40 |
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| ShadowJK | s/improvement/innovation/ | 18:40 |
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| flux | that looks really innovative. now, can Nokia make a similarly styled statement of N9.. | 18:46 |
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| vi__ | yet somhow they still managed to attach defective engines to the a380...? | 18:49 |
| Corsac | vi__: I guess you noticed the a380 wasn't built by boeing? | 18:49 |
| vi__ | Corsac: lol | 18:50 |
| vi__ | oopz | 18:50 |
| vi__ | I can no planez too | 18:50 |
| vi__ | a380 economy class==moderate suck | 18:51 |
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| rlinfati | (n9 kernel beta...) Fixes: NB#245107 - Disable secure trim feature for Hynix eMMC temporarily :/ | 18:55 |
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| rlinfati | Fixes: NB#236269 - Finally turn off /proc/component_version and bootreason :( | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf? | 18:56 |
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| crashanddie | vi__ get your trolling straight, boeing ain't the A380 constructor | 18:57 |
| rlinfati | DOcScrutinizer from kernel of harmattan beta.... | 18:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | gathered as much | 18:57 |
| rlinfati | Fixes: NB#198898 - METABUG: Get rid of /proc/component_version and bootreason | 18:57 |
| RST38h | remoo all | 18:57 |
| pabs3 | rlinfati: bootreason sounds useful, what is component_version though? | 18:57 |
| rlinfati | pabs3, show the hardware version and others... | 18:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love that Boeng is being told to close their new plant because it isn't a union shop. | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ $ IroN900:~# cat /proc/component_version | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | product RX-51 | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | hw-build 2101 | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nolo 1.4.14 | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | boot-mode normal | 18:59 |
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| rlinfati | Fixes: NB#224014 - bad colour of pictures and videos from secondary camera... SECONDARY CAMERA ??? | 19:02 |
| rlinfati | well... maybe is not for n9.... | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Front-facing | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | On N9. | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, what's new and exciting in the Harmattan SDK? | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since I'm too lazy to read scrollback. | 19:03 |
| swordi | hey DocScrutinizer did you know that NIN101 had to sent his n900 to repair and they still didn't sent it back, so he is now like 2 weeks without his n900, this is terrible, isn't it? | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | rlinfati: what's wrong with frontcam in N9(50)? | 19:05 |
| rlinfati | DocScrutinizer. the n9(50) has a front camera? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | definitely | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | according to http://www.developer.nokia.com/dp?uri=http://sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes | 19:06 |
| anidel | according to that doc both phones have a front facing camera | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Front-facing is listed in N9's specs | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though without details. | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | In the N950 the front facing camera is in top right corner and on N9 it is in the bottom right corner. The actual camera module is same. | 19:06 |
| rlinfati | ahh, ok | 19:07 |
| anidel | what changes is the lens | 19:07 |
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| anidel | or at least the N950 didn't go to Carl Zeiss to get thru their test, so no Carl Zeiss label at least | 19:07 |
| rlinfati | No-charging (8mA) configuration added for OTG host :):) | 19:08 |
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| Stskeeps | rlinfati: in kernel? | 19:09 |
| rlinfati | yep... http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/k/kernel/ | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | interesting | 19:10 |
| ShadowJK | sounds more like.. connecting n9 to a otg-host device | 19:10 |
| ShadowJK | because if connecting peripherals, you'd want boost | 19:11 |
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| rlinfati | in the ".config" has some references to OTG also.... | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | first question: has it micro-B or micro-AB receptacle? | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for the rest kernel is irrelevant if the hw doesn't support it | 19:14 |
| rlinfati | * Fixes: NB#198079 - Make 1GHz opp available on Lankku boards which support it | 19:14 |
| rlinfati | * Fixes: NB#198077 - Enable Smartreflex on Lankku | 19:14 |
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| ShadowJK | nothing unexpected there | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | god, I'd love to be andre__ for an hour or two, browsing thru the Nokia bugtracker | 19:16 |
| rlinfati | * Fixes: NB#198902 - /proc/component_version and /proc/bootreason deprecated :( | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks like some of the first patches to get reverted | 19:17 |
| rlinfati | * FM-radio reset gpio change for RM-696 S1.1 builds and onwards... the n9 is rm-696 and the n950 is rm-680/690 ? | 19:17 |
| rlinfati | Fixes: NB#198750 - fix OOPS when destroying MMS network namespace.... *MMS network namespace* :) | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals admitted he added MMS | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think that's why Nokia hired him | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Slick looking device | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can't believe they're not making in in scale. | 19:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Barking mad. | 19:19 |
| rlinfati | yep... but with a "network namespace"... ie, 2 AP working over the modem | 19:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: THANKS! | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | micro-B receptacle | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | no OTG host | 19:22 |
| * SpeedEvil is unsure about the keyboard layout | 19:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer | usually micro-B means device can't act as USB host | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 been a special case where we made it act as host nevertheless | 19:24 |
| rlinfati | Fixes: NB#186286 - Division by zero in kernel jijiji | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm usure about that fliping mechanism. Can see why carriers say "too flimsy" | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I still want to know: HOW THE HELL DO YOU LOOK AT MEEGO AND DECIDE: "Man, this is shit. Let's switch to Windows." | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: indeed. | 19:25 |
| nid0 | GeneralAntilles: well, in a rather sharp reversal that's exactly the question even engadget is asking now | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 19:26 |
| wmarone_ | Simple, you go "Microsoft wants me to switch this company over to Windows, that's why they got me this job..." | 19:26 |
| wmarone_ | </conspiracy!> | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | scratch that last line | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's so plain obvious I just don't get it how Nokia could miss about that detail | 19:28 |
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| Corsac | yeah, the engagdet editorial is nice | 19:29 |
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| Corsac | and quite true | 19:29 |
| Corsac | but maybe they did work like hell since february | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly they could probably hire a 6 year old child and get the job done better than the elopocalypse | 19:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, I expect they did. | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | But even so. | 19:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Who were didn't believe MeeGo and Nokia was capable of putting together something like the N9? | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just a matter of them getting out of their own way | 19:33 |
| Corsac | -EPARSE | 19:33 |
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| rlinfati | add MTP support to g_nokia ... ¿¿¿ MTP ??? | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rephrased: We knew this was doable. Whatever state MeeGo was in when Elop found it, I don't see how you can just decide to nuke it. | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Worse, how can you get something like THIS together and still plan on nuking it. | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Support for Qt is a "traces of Symbian" feature? . . . | 19:35 |
| rlinfati | Initial packaging for 2.6.32 series in Harmattan. Mon, 19 Oct 2009 -> 2 years of development ? :S | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not surprising. | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was announced in the end of 2009. | 19:36 |
| Corsac | rlinfati: at whole lot of people are using 2.6.32 | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | They started work as soon as Fremantle stopped being actively developed. | 19:36 |
| nid0 | tbh, I think what elop's currently doing is more a halfway house from the "zomg he killed it" and "meego for everything!!1" sides. the spending graphics they gave out always showed that theyd continue with meego development and just downscale it, and hes always maintained that itll be "the next disruption" | 19:37 |
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| nid0 | perhaps that was intentionally leaving the door open to revive it as a strategy quicker if they did end up putting out something really top notch | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: you ain't seen nothing. There may be *huge* nasty bugs in all dark corners of the system still | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bugs can be fixed. | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Look at what they put together. | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | just read http://www.developer.nokia.com/dp?uri=http://sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's impressive on a level a mobile device hasn't been since the iPhone launched. | 19:38 |
| hiemanshu | ugh, with the latest QtSDK 1.1.2, the freaking qemu emu doesn't work :/ | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, it once took us >12 months to fix a bug in GPS | 19:38 |
| ShadowJK | did anyone notice the cleverness in saying it's made out of "polycarbonate" rather than saying "it's plastic"? :-) | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Cunning. | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I have to agree (even while I kinda hate the gui) | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | They should have refered to 'bullet-resistant polymer' | 19:39 |
| nid0 | consumers tend to want buttery-smooth interfaces more than flawlessly functionality though, the first is more exciting and drums up more interest | 19:39 |
| ShadowJK | petrochemical hydrocarbon polymer | 19:40 |
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| Corsac | and it's pink! | 19:40 |
| nid0 | the gizmodos of the world are happy to bitch at having to navigate through a few symbian menus, but all bow down in praise at ios and it's inability to make an alarm clock work when time changes to DST and back. | 19:40 |
| Corsac | (ok, magenta :) | 19:40 |
| ShadowJK | Well, unresponsive interfaces and buttons/widgets you're unsure of whether you hit or missed will kill functionlality too :P | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Harmattan looks like its smooth and usable in ways Android and iOS can only aspire to. | 19:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm idly wondering at the possibility of a replacement N9 case. | 19:42 |
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| Termana | Why would you want a replacement case? You don't mean ones like different colours and patterns and pictures and stuff? | 19:43 |
| Termana | Get the black one and don't even investigate anything else | 19:43 |
| Termana | :p | 19:43 |
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| Termana | If anyone buys cyan or magenta I will LART them | 19:44 |
| MoonTiger | hey guys | 19:44 |
| wmarone_ | Termana: I shall by cyan just to spite you! | 19:44 |
| MoonTiger | is is better to use glibjson or jsoc-c for maemo apps? | 19:44 |
| wmarone_ | buy* | 19:45 |
| MoonTiger | json-c even | 19:45 |
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| nid0 | tbh, while im clearly going for the black one, the cyan one really doesnt look too terrible | 19:45 |
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| Termana | nid0, no. don't. you are not even allowed to encourage people to buy the other colours | 19:46 |
| Termana | :p | 19:46 |
| nid0 | im encouraging my girlfriend to get the magenta one | 19:46 |
| * MoonTiger waits for eveeyone to get over the new devices | 19:46 | |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ping | 19:46 |
| nid0 | not that I particularly want her to, but she hates pink anything with a passion and it's really funny winding her up | 19:47 |
| Termana | nid0, You. Dun. Goofed. | 19:47 |
| Termana | :p | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: pong | 19:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Seriously, is it not just insane to announce something like the N9 then fuck off for 4 weeks of vacation? | 19:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | This is the modern global consumer electronics market | 19:49 |
| Termana | MoonTiger, Repententh that which have come from your mouth! | 19:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's bordering on gross negligence to your shareholders. | 19:49 |
| * MoonTiger eats soap | 19:49 | |
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| Termana | GeneralAntilles, really, the should have at least given a release date. | 19:49 |
| Termana | they* | 19:49 |
| Termana | Then everyone knows when to be hyped up, the blogs know when to start churning some news about it | 19:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you NEVER get release dates | 19:50 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, not from Nokia, no. | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | just take it | 19:50 |
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| Termana | just take the release date? Shall I hack their servers? | 19:51 |
| Termana | :p | 19:51 |
| hno | Seems it's not really the address book that causes my addressbook to crash. Probably something in settings somewhere. | 19:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, almost had a question about making dbus-scripts auto initiate, but that was noted in wiki :). Now to another curious question in mind, I wonder how does one pair two bluetooth phones together without transreciving files? I mean its dead easy to do with headset where audio just goes through but not for example: two N900. I've tried using hcitool cc <bdaddr>, etc but it pairs for only 2 or so seconds before disconnecting | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | you noticed my rant of this morning, about osborne_effect? | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and associated freaky stuff | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: sorry, I don't even get the idea | 19:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think I paired my 2 N900 without any problems, just the one of them had a profile missing so no proper sync possible | 19:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (PR1.2 issue) | 19:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, for some funny reason when a device is paired with N900 (usually a slave device), N900 doesn't even bother setting up flag "key", not that it would make such a huge deal but I wonder if that's the case with N900 sending/receiving stuff from other devices | 19:55 |
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| psycho_oreos | I mean I can sync and send/receive files between two N900, but I can't just simply have them connected to each other and do nothing :) | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | never looked into it, and never touched hcitool | 19:55 |
| psycho_oreos | *nods* | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | went absolutely smooth using maemo GUI | 19:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's quite some months since | 19:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: you tried "visible" ? | 20:00 |
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| psycho_oreos | heh I've been constantly tinkering with mine, finding all the unusually missing backend bits and tried to add them in. I personally deem them as nuisances but *shrugs* | 20:00 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, its not the question of visibility :) I've got it paired for 2-3 seconds whilst visible | 20:01 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm thinking now its most likely something to do with the RFC specifications of bluetooth. That you cannot pair a device without doing anything else, unlike wireless where you can stay connected and do almost nothing | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't get your problem. Pairing is a persistent thing, means exchange of keys was done | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | bluetooth doesn't ever stay "connected" | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and heck why should it? | 20:04 |
| psycho_oreos | what I'm trying to achieve is a constant state of connection. If I turn on my BH-905 headset, I get the blue bluetooth icon and that remains blue until either I turn off BH-905 or it runs out of power. However, if I tried have another N900 connected to N900, the bluetooth icon will appear as blue for 2-3 seconds before it goes white again (meaning no active connections) | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | if both devices don't send beacons, then how shall they know of each other unless actually doing sth useful? | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | You need some sort of activity going on. | 20:05 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah they don't call it "connected" in bluetooth terminology, they call it "paired" or something | 20:05 |
| psycho_oreos | hm | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | no | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, paired is a permanent static state | 20:05 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 20:06 |
| psycho_oreos | it just defines device as trusted? | 20:06 |
| MoonTiger | soooooo..... no advice on glibjson or json-c as a better choice? :| | 20:06 |
| ShadowJK | "paired" means they have xchanged crypto keys. They can be paired while one is on the moon and other on mars | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-22 19:02:54] <DocScrutinizer> I don't get your problem. Pairing is a persistent thing, means exchange of keys was done | 20:06 |
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| psycho_oreos | ok my bad, but I can send stuff to and fro, its just that it'll be annoying having to hack up a few loop scripts between the two so then I can see whats going on and maybe add new stuff to dbus-scripts | 20:07 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought pairing was more than just exchanging, forgive my naiveness :) | 20:08 |
| ShadowJK | if need to have some activity going on. like a pan connection, headset connection, active file transfer or something | 20:08 |
| psycho_oreos | guess I could also try PAN connection, heh one being PAN daemon/host and the other being the client | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I'm rather sure you're trying to do sth you're not supposed to do that way | 20:10 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, I don't know just yet until curiousity kills the cat :) for now I'm curious to see if I can add extra layers of security (or false sense thereof) and see if it still works | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are different profiles and it seems you are trying to use an inappropriate profile for sth that's not really working with that | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: BT is considered damn safe | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | secure rather | 20:12 |
| Venemo | hey guys | 20:12 |
| psycho_oreos | probably not as yet :) for now this little "hack" works with my headset | 20:12 |
| Venemo | any news in Maemo land? | 20:12 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, somewhat :) packets can still be sniffed with certain CSR chipset, and then I recall of that old MiTM attack on bluetooth where one was able to listen to another person's phone calls | 20:13 |
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| psycho_oreos | I guess paranoia got the better of me at this point :) | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: sorry, I can't help with that amount of missing info | 20:13 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: i didnt admit to any such thing ;-) i admitted i was hired for MMS ;) | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: ok ok | 20:14 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, the missing extra part of when bluetooth headset for example is paired with N900? or just bluetooth security? :) | 20:14 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: just to make sure none gives me credit for something i didnt do :) | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: whatever, I'd be kinda strange when Nokia hires you for MMS and nevertheless doesn't support MMS in next major release | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | it'd* | 20:16 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: yeah ;) | 20:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | was just referring to your "...then maybe I've done my bit" OWTTE | 20:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might have gotten that wrong | 20:18 |
| psycho_oreos | thanks for the input DocScrutinizer ; ShadowJK :) going to look more into it probably on weekend before writing it to my blog | 20:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: check the profiles and their properties and usecases | 20:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: also reading up some wikipedia bits sometimes really helps | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc the BT article wasn't bad | 20:19 |
| ShadowJK | if you have a loop AND involved you're probably going to kill the standby battery life from 10 days to 10 hours ;p | 20:20 |
| ShadowJK | or worse | 20:20 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, at this point in time I'm thinking its not to do with profiles in particular, its something that wasn't set by default with N900 or maemo or even linux. My knowledge of bluetooth isn't that broad but at this point in time I'm going to go by something that Nokia didn't bother to implement | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | too fuzzy for me | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | good luck anyway | 20:21 |
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| psycho_oreos | ShadowJK, going to leave them charged (i.e. hooked up to power point) and hoping that I'm quick enough to get to the bottom of the situation before I kill off battery power. If anything it'll be the targeted device which would be my older N900 :) | 20:22 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: it was to the software in general, shouldve clarified :) | 20:22 |
| frals | i shouldve* | 20:23 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, thanks :) | 20:23 |
| lcuk | frals, fmms_h has been tested I hope ! | 20:23 |
| frals | lcuk: or maybe hMMS? ;) | 20:25 |
| lcuk | ;) | 20:25 |
| frals | lcuk: sadly no, i dont consider it needed for harmattan... hopefully i can put it on MeeGo N900 CE during my (short) vacation :) | 20:25 |
| lcuk | frals, the principles of fmms are needed on all devices | 20:26 |
| frals | (no GeneralAntilles, my vacation probably won't be until the device is shipping so no worries ;)) | 20:26 |
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| RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5814394/army-gets-how+to-guide-for-zombie-invasion | 20:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | frals, yes, but that just means we'll have working MMS. | 20:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | What about the REST of it? :P | 20:33 |
| frals | GeneralAntilles: ;) | 20:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the REST? | 20:38 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, i.e., everything else needed to get from "Irritating tease" to "Device in my hands". | 20:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I admit I'm in love with N950, since that youtube clip. Might change when actually using that friggin capacitive touchscreen | 20:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, you gonna apply for one? | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Platform stuff isn't a priority, I guess. | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | But still. | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I simply can't figure how you'd possibly highlight text in a shell or whatever, to c&p. Just for instance | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a pain | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doable | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | but a poin. | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | pain* | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | konttori suggested I should apply, he might try to make it happen | 21:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qgil and Texrat are also involved in the selections (community-side, anyway) | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems he thought it could help when I have a look at it | 21:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hope so. | 21:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I've tried for the community cohesion, and documentation side. As well as the webproxy thing I've been going on about | 21:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be cool if that was irrelevant, and the S40 server protocol were available. | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | (for web compression) | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, they got an own protocol there? | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume so. | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | sybian S40? | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not aware of any open compressing proxy. | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | It was in the speech before the important one. | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | who's hosting that? | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | 'cloud services' which reduce the data going to the phone by 90% | 21:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | Good question, it could be nokia, or in principle the carriers. | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's the carriers, it lets them do interesting things like put in place governmental firewalls, which could be useful for some markets | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, no matter what it's kinda meh for me. Also my data volume doesn't need such compression really | 21:07 |
| petteri | does n9 have termial app. Looking at the package list at least it seems that osso-xterm has been removed? | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHA | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""it's not a computer, it's an iPhone-me-too"" | 21:08 |
| Choom | isn't osso-xterm a gtk app? | 21:09 |
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| petteri | i don't know | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, think so | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, what's been the first thing you've shown to your best friends when you got the N900? Right, xterm... "now can you do THIS on *your* smartphone?" | 21:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I was on 3G only for a few days - it's hard to browse for an hour and not hit >10M | 21:11 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm. | 21:11 |
| * SpeedEvil tries to recall. | 21:11 | |
| cloudyLights | DocScrutinizer: the xterm doesnt impress my SO | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if we actually have cpufreq/dvfs on modern kernels for n8x0 | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - I think it was live updating webpages in the task manager | 21:11 |
| cloudyLights | but an app I can write DOES | 21:11 |
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| Choom | DocScrutinizer: any jailbroken iphone can do that | 21:13 |
| monoid | want to buy: N950 | 21:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cloudyLights: you can write apps for android, iPhone, even symbian - if you *can* | 21:13 |
| cloudyLights | not ON the device during the way to work.... | 21:13 |
| Choom | but... most people don't give a crap about the terminal | 21:13 |
| Choom | I only use it for IRC | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: yep, and my wristwatch can do that as well | 21:14 |
| Choom | so long as there's ssh, I'm served | 21:14 |
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| Choom | it's only a phone... | 21:15 |
| monoid | (it's only a model) | 21:15 |
| cloudyLights | for my boss I only need openvpna and ssh and a keyboard | 21:15 |
| monoid | camelot! | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | go get your "phone" somewhere else | 21:15 |
| cloudyLights | but I like python,hildon and gtk | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: N900-> "it's NOT a phone, it's a NIT computer" | 21:15 |
| Choom | still I hope it comes with a terminal | 21:16 |
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| Choom | and multitouch text selection | 21:16 |
| alterego | Hello ladies | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: it won't - to satisfy those who say "it's just a phone" | 21:17 |
| alterego | I thought I'd come in here and see how much of the N9 news you're getting :) | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 21:17 |
| alterego | s/news/flack-from-lusers/ ;) | 21:18 |
| alterego | I actually didn't mean to stick the 'l' in there O_O | 21:18 |
| Choom | if it doesn't, someone will certainly port one | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | lusers like those who still think kbd is a great idea? | 21:18 |
| alterego | I don't care, I've got a Bluetooth compact keyboard. | 21:18 |
| alterego | I'm more miffed it doesn't have a stand :P | 21:18 |
| monoid | stands are out | 21:19 |
| monoid | but you can make one | 21:19 |
| alterego | tmo certainly has an abundance of retarded topics at the moment. | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, N9 isn't on *my* wishlist for next xmass at least | 21:20 |
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| alterego | I don't care, I've got a Bluetooth compact keyboard.I want it, but I probably wont pay for one, so meh :) | 21:21 |
| monoid | DocScrutinizer: is n950? | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 21:21 |
| alterego | What does it lack that you'd like Doc? | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I love the design | 21:21 |
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| alterego | I'm gonna get it, just because it's a prettier looking N900 ;) | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: quite probably a way to highlight text in arbitrary apps, for c&p, to start with | 21:22 |
| alterego | The only downgrade as far as the N900 is concerned is the lack of micro sd really. | 21:22 |
| alterego | And stand I guess. | 21:22 |
| monoid | engadget likes meego / n9 http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/editorial-dear-nokia-you-cannot-be-serious/ | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | lack of any storage media slot actually another point | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | major fail | 21:22 |
| monoid | whaa | 21:23 |
| alterego | Yeah, it sort of removes the possibility of _any_ hardware mods outside of USB host interface. | 21:23 |
| monoid | i guess 64GB is enough tho | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | usb host interface also flawed, ruling by N950 | 21:23 |
| * monoid imagines how insane that would have sounded in 1987 | 21:23 | |
| alterego | It's not the storage, it's the ability to backup data on something that is less likely to die | 21:23 |
| monoid | yeah scp over wifi isn't too fast | 21:24 |
| alterego | With micro sd, it's easier to backup & restore data between devices. | 21:24 |
| alterego | IT's not that, if your device fails .. | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | monoid: enough for what? sure enough to backup your holiday shots from your real cam, but wait.... how to do that? | 21:24 |
| monoid | does n950 have microsd slot? | 21:24 |
| alterego | I do weekly backups onto microsd. | 21:24 |
| alterego | monoid: no, neither do. | 21:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | monoid: nope | 21:24 |
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| alterego | Anyway, so now my backups will have to be done over the could. | 21:24 |
| SpeedEvil | If it can be convinced to do USB host - ... | 21:24 |
| alterego | ~cloud | 21:24 |
| Guest36683 | extra, extra, read all about it, cloud is an experienced Zaurus user | 21:25 |
| monoid | ~alterego | 21:25 |
| Guest36683 | rumour has it, alterego is a nice person who is always ready to help with all kinds of weird stuff. he can also answer any Qt-related question | 21:25 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: I've heard it should work with USB host easier than the N900 | 21:25 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 21:25 |
| alterego | So much so, I think we plan on supporting it in N900 CE | 21:25 |
| RST38h | OMG Engadget is positive about damn Harmattan | 21:25 |
| alterego | That is why I know about this ;) | 21:25 |
| RST38h | Hell froze. | 21:25 |
| alterego | RST38h: yes, very positive. | 21:25 |
| RST38h | Toads flew. | 21:26 |
| alterego | The BBC article and The Register were all "End-of-the-world" scenarious. | 21:26 |
| alterego | ~scenarios | 21:26 |
| monoid | what does that mean | 21:26 |
| alterego | IT means they were spreading FUD about MeeGo being a dead end OS | 21:26 |
| alterego | The usual crap, that no one really knows. | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: a) docs say N950 and N900 are identical. b) N950 evidently has a micro-B receptacle that's per definition not capable to do OTG hostmode | 21:27 |
| alterego | People should really have learned not to expect or even guess at what Nokia will do or wont do. | 21:27 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: interesting, which docs? | 21:27 |
| alterego | Have the N950 schematics been leaked? | 21:27 |
| frals | i guess something should show up on fcc soonish? | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh? | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | HR video showing the connector I think | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: why do you think I need any schematics for the prev statement? | 21:28 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: how else would you know this? | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | know what? | 21:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.developer.nokia.com/dp?uri=http://sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | is all I need to tell you that N9 probably isn't designed to do hostmode | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | or, if it is, the already messed it up again | 21:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they | 21:31 |
| alterego | m'hmm, and your reasoning? May I ask? | 21:31 |
| monoid | hmm n900 is still a darn fine device | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: can you please read my last 3 posts | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and [2011-06-22 20:27:15] <DocScrutinizer> alterego: a) docs say N950 and N900 are identical. b) N950 evidently has a micro-B receptacle that's per definition not capable to do OTG hostmode | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | err N950 and N9 obviously | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | friggin numbering | 21:32 |
| alterego | Your last three statements require me to read through a massive document and watch a video, and even then, I don't know what you know. | 21:33 |
| alterego | You know I'm not a hardware person :P | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 'massive document' lists hw diffs between N9 and N950 - no USB mentioned. The video shows N950 with micro-B-USB | 21:34 |
| alterego | Ah, okay. | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | now what else need you of my precious knowledge? :-) | 21:34 |
| loft306 | release notes on the 950 sound like my 900 somedays | 21:34 |
| alterego | Well, firstly I wouldn't take the dfact it's not mentioning anything about the USB :P | 21:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, what's your rationeale then, except "I heard..." | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm just listing up indications | 21:36 |
| alterego | I heard from Nokia employees about a strategy they were saying they wanted to emply in MeeGo Community Edition | 21:37 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/05/nokia-n950-n9-meego-device-step-closer-release/ | 21:37 |
| alterego | I don't see why the connector really matters? | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | PenTile OLED | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Kill me. | 21:37 |
| SpeedEvil | n950 hinge details. | 21:37 |
| SpeedEvil | That... Does not look very robust. | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, then you probably are on same page with Nokia | 21:37 |
| monoid | what is bad about pentile oled GeneralAntilles ? | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | monoid, it screws up small details. | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like 1-pixel lines | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | and small text | 21:38 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, if I'm not mistaken, the N900's USB port lacks the ID pin | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | You end up losing usable PPI. | 21:38 |
| monoid | it is not a rectangular array? | 21:38 |
| MohammadAG | which is needed for OTG | 21:38 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: is this because it lacks anyway of knowing when something is plugged in to automatically enumerate? | 21:38 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: we're not talking about OTG :P | 21:38 |
| MohammadAG | so if it's the same port on the N9, we can have a hacked hostmode, but not OTG | 21:38 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: that is what we're talking about. | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.allaboutmeego.com/gallery/item/Nokia_N9_hands-on_gallery.php | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Look at the GPS closeup. | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: not really, the receptacle has the ID pin and it's also connected. alas to the wrong chip | 21:39 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, so wait, with some HW mods we could have OTG? | 21:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in theory yes | 21:39 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: so it's been inside for 1:35 minutes? :P | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: you mean the fake 3D thing? | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | practically that's a really nasty hw mod | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, no, the messed up subpixel arrangement. | 21:40 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: oh | 21:40 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: Closups of dislays can be bogus due to moirre | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: haha, you found our about how OLED counts pixel? | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've yet to see an OLED display that doesn't look like shit in this area. | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | out* | 21:41 |
| SpeedEvil | N950 is LCD | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, I'm probably not getting one of those. | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, hooray for that | 21:41 |
| monoid | the lines look jittery | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | AMOLED is a shiny fake | 21:41 |
| monoid | well it has enough resolution anyway | 21:42 |
| alterego | AMOLEDS were very short lived in the tech press weren't they. | 21:42 |
| alterego | I remember a year or two ago it's all people were talking about "Is it AMOLED?!?!?! IS IT AMOLED?!?!?" | 21:42 |
| alterego | And now they're like "I hope it's not AMOLED!" | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | wears out (ghost shadows burning in), it's too dim in bright light, and it has that weird way they tell you R G B are 3 pixels | 21:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also amoled usualy not guaranteed to last longer than maybe 2 years | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | oxidation problems mainly | 21:44 |
| kerio | amoled is horrible | 21:44 |
| kerio | so... why is every stupid mobile blog writing about how better the n9 is to the n950? | 21:44 |
| frals | probably because amoled looks so much better than lcd | 21:45 |
| kerio | oh really | 21:45 |
| frals | yes, really :p | 21:45 |
| kerio | PIXELS | 21:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because the have seen neither of the both | 21:45 |
| kerio | I WANT FULL OF THEM | 21:45 |
| alterego | Meh, I don't care, it's not like I'm going to pay for one .. | 21:45 |
| frals | *looks at n9* *looks at n950* | 21:45 |
| kerio | alterego: i want to pay for a n950 :( | 21:45 |
| frals | ye, n9 screen looks better to me :p | 21:45 |
| kerio | better for what | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better black levels | 21:46 |
| nid0 | as in "not worse"? | 21:46 |
| kerio | i want my computers to have proper pixels | 21:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: go out into the bright daylight you cave amphibian | 21:46 |
| * GeneralAntilles too | 21:46 | |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, hypocrite. :P | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | that will change your mnd | 21:46 |
| alterego | Hahah | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey-ho, javispedro. | 21:46 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: was using it from ~15-19 straight in the sun, it worked ;) | 21:46 |
| kerio | i thought the proper term was "basement dweller" | 21:46 |
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| frals | not the n950 thou | 21:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | kerio, frals is special. ;) | 21:47 |
| kerio | no basement? | 21:47 |
| alterego | I also need to decide what to do with my three N900s, do I keep them, do I sell them. | 21:47 |
| javispedro | hello | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: nice, I like to hear hw success stories | 21:47 |
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| frals | i live in Finland, its almost always dark here, regardless if you are in a basement or not :P | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems they picked a particularly good one then for N9 | 21:47 |
| kerio | anyway, it's clear that nokia should've just dropped the n9 and made only n950s | 21:48 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: this is all my personal opinion, of course. but side by side i pick n9 display anyday | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | They should've made both. | 21:48 |
| nid0 | idd. | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a market for both. | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: How is small text on the n900? | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | n9 | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | n9-00 | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Or detailed graphics | 21:49 |
| frals | define small? :) | 21:49 |
| kerio | not really, if i were to choose i'd choose the n950 every time | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't that a pain, could they call it frooble instead of N9-00? | 21:49 |
| SpeedEvil | 80*25 courier of course. :) | 21:49 |
| frals | give me a link to something i can check on the device ;) | 21:49 |
| monoid | did you overclock alterego ? | 21:49 |
| kerio | frals: 1-pixel checkerboard, black and white | 21:50 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: Does it have swype? Does it work? | 21:50 |
| MohammadAG | ask any wom... nvm, bad joke | 21:50 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, does EE include CS? | 21:50 |
| monoid | very sad so few n950s to go to devs | 21:50 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: Oh - yes - can it be overclocked. :) | 21:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | MohammadAG, no. | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nope | 21:50 |
| SpeedEvil | 1GHz singlecore is too slow! :) | 21:50 |
| frals | kerio: link a pic and ill look at it, but since the UX guidelines recommended not to use single pixel lines i assume thats the weakness of the display | 21:51 |
| kerio | no shit, it's amoled | 21:51 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: dunno, does it list swype on specifications? re overclocking -- no clue | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | monoid: useless reasoning - devs actually should develop on the device the plan as target platform | 21:52 |
| frals | kerio: do you regularly have to watch 1x1px checkers on your phone? then you should probably look for something else ;) | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: There was a video showing swype configurations | 21:52 |
| monoid | DocScrutinizer: are the internals the same? | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 21:52 |
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| nid0 | frals: several sites listing the bundled apps list swype as included | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 21:52 |
| kerio | frals: plenty of DEs use single-pixel lines for stuff | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | 1*1 pixel is fairly irrelevant - if your eyes cannot reasonably resolve 1 pixel. | 21:52 |
| kerio | xfce, lxde | 21:52 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: dunno tbh, im using swedish input and never seen swype support that | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | How would you compare the MMS support? :) | 21:53 |
| javisn900 | gimme graffiti over any kind of vkb everyday | 21:53 |
| javisn900 | ohnoes, capacitive screen | 21:53 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: bah, thats unfair. ;) | 21:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | I could never hit 15wpm using grafiti | 21:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I can hit 35 on n900 keyb | 21:54 |
| javisn900 | speedevil: graffiti vs hw keyb is not fair | 21:54 |
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| javisn900 | I said vkb | 21:54 |
| SpeedEvil | javisn900: No, it's not. | 21:54 |
| SpeedEvil | javisn900: I care really quite little for fairness. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're not halping in bashing N9 though ;-P | 21:55 |
| SpeedEvil | On balance - I really hope n9 sells, and will make efforts to make it sell. | 21:56 |
| SpeedEvil | As I think it's one of the possible hopes for the future of a series of more open phones. | 21:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Part of this is saying why I think it sucks, and then trying to think of ways tound the suckage. | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ack | 21:56 |
| javisn900 | indoctrination complete! | 21:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles was faster on N800 than N900. | 21:57 | |
| mtnbkr | one feature that appears to be missing from N9 - a feature I LoOVE - is the FM xmitter. :( | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, we got brainwash day in this chan, since almost 24h | 21:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: SUBMIT! | 21:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: ?? | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | submit what? | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | The last best hope for FOSS in mobile devices, DocScrutinizer. You must SUBMIT! | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | (to the will of the MeeGo) | 21:58 |
| javisn900 | generalantilles: much better kb! also, n950's might be the best keyb ever from the looks of it | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 21:59 |
| javisn900 | I like the size at least | 21:59 |
| javisn900 | waiting to grasp the touch! | 21:59 |
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| javisn900 | if we ever get one that is! | 21:59 |
| monoid | does the n950 have soft push keys or clicky keys? | 21:59 |
| monoid | maybe palm will make a landscape webos device | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | good question! | 22:00 |
| monoid | i prefer clicky | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think everybody does | 22:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | except that weird fool that just stops posting his answer ;-D | 22:01 |
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| javisn900 | we are really going to hate the coming days if there really is n950 scarcity | 22:01 |
| javisn900 | because there are way more applicants now, and way less devices | 22:03 |
| monoid | it is sad | 22:03 |
| monoid | they have the production line and everything, they invest into | 22:03 |
| javisn900 | and I do not exactly fondly remember the days when for ex. wazd didn't have one | 22:03 |
| monoid | and then somebody (elop?) decide "no you may not have this" | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia should start to sell N950 "as seen, no warranty" | 22:04 |
| monoid | yes, or without an OS installed | 22:04 |
| javisn900 | docscrutinizer: you think they can? in europe? | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think they can | 22:04 |
| javisn900 | OM guys shall know =) | 22:04 |
| monoid | or lease them | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | just properly declare the goods | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | javisn900: ouch | 22:05 |
| javisn900 | they went thru the hops I guess | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | javisn900: actually we had no problems at all | 22:05 |
| monoid | but if they did not ship with an installed OS, then you eliminate the 'useless consumers' and get only 'community members' | 22:05 |
| monoid | i think my idea deserves consideration :) | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | devices shipped off china, wit a 14day DOA warranty, plus 1/10 spare for resellers to handle repairs | 22:06 |
| javisn900 | submit it to the novel prize comitee | 22:06 |
| javisn900 | docscrutinizer: heh. | 22:07 |
| monoid | good plan DocScrutinizer | 22:07 |
| javisn900 | *nobel :P | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I was amazed it worked | 22:08 |
| * alterego wonders where af-sb-init is .. | 22:08 | |
| alterego | Have they changed the name of the startup script in harmattan? | 22:08 |
| frals | meego-<tab> | 22:08 |
| alterego | meego-run? | 22:09 |
| frals | nothing else? | 22:09 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders WHAT af-sb-init is | 22:09 | |
| MoonTiger | DocScrutinizer, pain | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like, yes | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't make a story out of af | 22:10 |
| frals | application framework? | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | foind out it's probably not autofocus | 22:11 |
| alterego | meego-sb-session ah | 22:11 |
| monoid | new eu law, websites may not place cookies without opt-in | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | YEAH!!! | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart cookies | 22:11 |
| * Guest36683 rm -rf's cookies | 22:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: grow a brain! | 22:12 |
| loft306 | /me eats the cookies | 22:12 |
| loft306 | crap | 22:12 |
| monoid | cookies are useful for sites to analyze their traffic and popularity | 22:12 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 22:12 | |
| *** Guest36683 was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 22:12 | |
| *** Guest36683 has joined #maemo | 22:12 | |
| loft306 | heh | 22:13 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 22:13 | |
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| monoid | amazon.de has 1 N900 left | 22:15 |
| MoonTiger | so.... the N9 won't be using .deb files anymore? | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | cookies are the pest that ruins my ESC key | 22:15 |
| Sc0rpius | the N950 is a N9 with physical keyboard? | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sc0rpius, sort of. | 22:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | No NFC | 22:15 |
| Sc0rpius | are there other differences? | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | TFT instead of OLED | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | And LCD and a flat screen | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | BT 2.1 not 4.0 | 22:16 |
| Sc0rpius | so N950 is NOT multitouch, but the N9 is? | 22:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's capacitive. | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | err a flat screen? | 22:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: actually it seems like | 22:16 |
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| MohammadAG | wtf | 22:16 |
| monoid | qwerty N900 535 euro @ amazon.de | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | which is a real LOL | 22:17 |
| Sc0rpius | I *need* physical keyboard | 22:17 |
| Sc0rpius | so N9 so far is not an option for me | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | do they devs want to develop for the N9 or the N950? | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you imply N9 has no flat screen? | 22:17 |
| MoonTiger | seems they are so different that one cannot be a dev device for the other | 22:17 |
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| MohammadAG | exactly | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Lots have been said about the curved gorrilla-glas I thought. | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | NFC is something I can code based on theoritcal shit | 22:18 |
| MohammadAG | but multitouch? cmon | 22:18 |
| MoonTiger | i think the n950 is a left over batch of obsolete devices they are trying to get rid of | 22:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 22:18 | |
| MohammadAG | has anyone confirmed the N9 dev kit is an N950? I'm starting to think it's an N8 :P | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n9-to-ship-in-sweden-on-september-23rd-saith-awkwardly-tr/ | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | MoonTiger: Nokia doesn't need to "get rid of devices" | 22:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | So that means we'll see it in the US sometime in the middle of 2012 | 22:19 |
| MoonTiger | like N900 -> N950 is so obviously a next gen naming that it's silly they are trying to paint it something else | 22:19 |
| monoid | i think many n900 owners would like a n950 | 22:19 |
| Sc0rpius | if there's no multitouch + physical keyboard, there won't be an upgrade for me and I'll stick with my N900 | 22:19 |
| MoonTiger | monoid, yes of course but not as a dev device for n( | 22:19 |
| MoonTiger | N9 | 22:19 |
| javisn900 | ~ping | 22:20 |
| Guest36683 | ~pong | 22:20 |
| monoid | it must have multitouch | 22:20 |
| Sc0rpius | yup | 22:20 |
| javisn900 | #1 test | 22:20 |
| frals | Sc0rpius: what do you base no multitouch on? | 22:20 |
| Sc0rpius | dunno, just wondering | 22:20 |
| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/AVM-FritzBox-vs-Cybits-in-GPL-case/?kc=rss | 22:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | frals: Don't you go interjecting your facts into a perfectly good argument! :) | 22:20 |
| Sc0rpius | N950 seems like the perfect phone | 22:20 |
| javisn900 | we have had too many stupid bots on this channel as of lately | 22:20 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: ye, so typical me, i better stop :( ;) | 22:20 |
| monoid | Sc0rpius: missing microsd, apparently | 22:20 |
| *** admiral0 is now known as admiral0_away | 22:21 | |
| Sc0rpius | that would be absurd | 22:21 |
| Sc0rpius | though N9 will have 64 GB? I can live without microSD there | 22:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I have real doubts as to the hinge. | 22:21 |
| SpeedEvil | But - hard to tell from pictures. | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooops actually frals is completely right | 22:22 |
| luke-jr | Sc0rpius: I read N9 has 16 GB -.- | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | the c-ts is same on both | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | In many ways it would make sense to use the n900 as a dev platform | 22:22 |
| alterego | The N9 comes in two flavours, the 16G and t he 64G | 22:22 |
| frals | Internal memory: 16 GB or 64 GB from http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9/specifications | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Harmattan on n900 would make sense from a dev perspective. | 22:23 |
| javisn900 | it comes in gorilla desert falvor also | 22:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Not the least being many devs already have it | 22:23 |
| Sc0rpius | 16GB is a joke | 22:23 |
| alterego | A joke at half the price/ | 22:23 |
| alterego | ? | 22:23 |
| Sc0rpius | :S | 22:23 |
| alterego | whoops .. | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: half the price of what? | 22:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | anyway the N9 looks cool but without physical keyboard is not an option for me | 22:24 |
| javisn900 | speedevil: | 22:24 |
| RST38h | Soooo, anything new, while I have been praying to the Tentacled One? | 22:24 |
| javisn900 | not many devs have harmattan on n900 | 22:25 |
| javisn900 | meego maybe, harmattan. .. | 22:25 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: Harmattan on N900 would probably suffer from the RAM requirement. And slightly different screen size remember | 22:25 |
| alterego | I'm not fussed, I'll have an N950, maybe two, and I'll probably have an N9 | 22:25 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: No | 22:25 |
| RST38h | Sc0rpius, Doc, alterego: Deep down there, you know you will buy N9 no matter what | 22:25 |
| alterego | I've also still got N900s, so .. | 22:25 |
| alterego | RST38h: I've never said I wouldn't :P | 22:25 |
| Sc0rpius | :'( | 22:25 |
| alterego | Oh wait, no, I'm not going to _buy_ one ;) | 22:25 |
| javisn900 | no one will have a n950 | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: yes, it would suffer somewhat - I question if discipline on devs to keep memory and CPU use down is a bad thing though. | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: yes, and 5 for you | 22:25 |
| MoonTiger | does the N9 have a user replaceable battery? | 22:25 |
| alterego | But sure, I'll have one ;) | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | MoonTiger: no. | 22:26 |
| Sc0rpius | how can I do my heavy SSH at they gym without physical keyboard? it's just impossible. | 22:26 |
| * MoonTiger sighs | 22:26 | |
| Sc0rpius | :'( | 22:26 |
| Jaffa | Sc0rpius: Skip the gym | 22:26 |
| Sc0rpius | heh no way | 22:26 |
| MoonTiger | i think i'll stay with the N900 for now | 22:26 |
| RST38h | Sc0rpius:By bringing both N9 and N900? | 22:26 |
| alterego | Sc0rpius: external Bluetooth keyboard :P | 22:26 |
| alterego | Or keep an N900 for that .. | 22:26 |
| kerio | alright, from now on i'm bringing my laptop with me instead of my phone | 22:26 |
| Sc0rpius | so far I'm keeping my N900 | 22:26 |
| kerio | apparently it's the only fucking way to get something that works as i want | 22:26 |
| javisn900 | if you're using the n900 keyboard for ssh you're insane either way | 22:26 |
| Sc0rpius | heh kerio | 22:26 |
| kerio | fucking elop | 22:26 |
| Jaffa | N900 with Bluemaemo | 22:26 |
| kerio | javisn900: why is that? | 22:26 |
| alterego | Sure, I'm keeping my N900/s and I'll probably use N9 as primary and N950 for MeeGo dev. | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: MoonTiger I heard yes | 22:26 |
| Jaffa | javisn900: Nah, s'good | 22:26 |
| kerio | it works great | 22:26 |
| alterego | Simples. | 22:26 |
| Sc0rpius | I can type really fast in the N900 | 22:27 |
| MoonTiger | DocScrutinizer, ok cool if so | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | you unscrew and throw away the screws of back cover | 22:27 |
| MoonTiger | so i'm getting the idea that dev work is better in Qt these days then | 22:27 |
| Sc0rpius | and I destroyed already the original N900 keyboard and I have a replacement now installed on it | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Oh - I meant 'user' replacable. | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, no back | 22:27 |
| monoid | Sc0rpius: did you wear through the keyboard? | 22:27 |
| obcecado | i think ill be using n900 till a decent device comes out | 22:27 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah completely | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: As in something usrs are encouraged to do. | 22:27 |
| monoid | same here :D | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 22:27 |
| Sc0rpius | it started to peel away | 22:27 |
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| kerio | javisn900: no really what's wrong with the n900 kbd for ssh? | 22:28 |
| alterego | My only care is, "Will it blend" .. | 22:28 |
| monoid | it's surprisingly good for 3 rows | 22:28 |
| Sc0rpius | and then no key could be read, I didn't care at first but when I tried to input a symbol I didn't know what to press | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""after 3 days you learn how to open it"" | 22:28 |
| alterego | If it blends, then I'm not gonna get one . | 22:28 |
| Sc0rpius | so I bought a chinese keyboard replacement from eBay I think DocScrutinizer helped me with the link | 22:28 |
| *** admiral0 is now known as admiral0_away | 22:28 | |
| Sc0rpius | for like $1.99 | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""after a month you swap batteries in the dark"" | 22:28 |
| kerio | alterego: the n950 is made of aluminium! | 22:28 |
| Sc0rpius | it's very ugly (the chinese keyboard replacement) but at least is complete | 22:28 |
| MoonTiger | Sc0rpius, can u give me the link? | 22:29 |
| alterego | kerio: the iPhone 4 was maqde out of steel and gorilla glass :P | 22:29 |
| obcecado | and how is the quality of that keyb replacement ? | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | <Sc0rpius> I can type really fast in the N900 | 22:29 |
| Sc0rpius | yup I can :) | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | 70 WPM here | 22:29 |
| Sc0rpius | in the N900? | 22:29 |
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| MohammadAG | but I can get 40-50 on the iPhone :p | 22:29 |
| javisn900 | kerio: missing keys | 22:30 |
| Sc0rpius | wow I haven't measured but I can do 110 WPM in the desktop keyboard | 22:30 |
| monoid | a minute has 60 seconds | 22:30 |
| MoonTiger | oh f**k!! does it still have Modest as the email client? | 22:30 |
| kerio | javisn900: huh? | 22:30 |
| kerio | what keys? | 22:30 |
| * kerio checks his n900 | 22:30 | |
| Jaffa | MoonTiger: No | 22:30 |
| kerio | nope, all still there | 22:30 |
| javisn900 | kerio: specially when compared to n8x0. | 22:30 |
| MoonTiger | Jaffa, heh thank god | 22:30 |
| Sc0rpius | MoonTiger: just look for N900 keyboard on eBay | 22:31 |
| javisn900 | kerio: tab, pipe, pagup, pagdown, del, esc, scrll lock | 22:31 |
| kerio | you mean fn+backspace, shift+fn+g, shift+fn+up, shift+fn+down, shift+backspace, shift+fn+backspace | 22:31 |
| kerio | i don't have scroll lock though | 22:32 |
| javisn900 | you use emacs | 22:32 |
| kerio | no, i use a keyboard layout i made | 22:32 |
| javisn900 | but I use vi, so I can only remember a few keys | 22:32 |
| kerio | it's an x11 layout | 22:32 |
| kerio | application-independant | 22:32 |
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| javisn900 | I know. my point is that once you start with the weird shortcuts, you lose memory. | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | javisn900: troll! | 22:33 |
| javisn900 | thus you lose speed. | 22:33 |
| kerio | you... wait, what? | 22:33 |
| javisn900 | thus the hwkb is less convenient. | 22:33 |
| * kerio is baffled | 22:33 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer wipes off the dust from madal "troll of the day" | 22:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer | medal* | 22:34 |
| * javisn900 sighs | 22:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 22:35 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/got-a-cute-hostage-huh-wanted-man-updates-facebook-status-during-16hour-standoff-20110622-1ge63.html | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | no vi/emacs wars please! | 22:35 |
| MoonTiger | im guessing the battery isnt replaceable as it isnt listed as a part in the contents section | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to unscrew something | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | even on N950 | 22:37 |
| MoonTiger | that kinda rules it out for me | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a lot of things that rule it out for me | 22:37 |
| MoonTiger | yah one of the things i love about my N900 over my touch slab other device is the keyboard | 22:38 |
| loft306 | i was told by a nokia guy with one that it is and you gotta take out a few scrons ansd open it up and that he had done it already | 22:39 |
| kerio | wtf is a scron | 22:39 |
| * MoonTiger wonders too | 22:40 | |
| loft306 | screws | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | darn, third time? | 22:40 |
| loft306 | just scrolled up i geuss | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | <DocScrutinizer> you unscrew and throw away the screws of back cover <DocScrutinizer> ""after 3 days you learn how to open it"" <DocScrutinizer> ""after a month you swap batteries in the dark"" | 22:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | </quote> | 22:42 |
| loft306 | that sounds like the 950 | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I made up the "back" | 22:42 |
| kerio | First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you swap batteries in the dark. | 22:42 |
| kerio | true story | 22:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: sounds like the story of your life err wife | 22:44 |
| loft306 | the screws on the 9 i asume would be in the sim/usb area under the covers | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly | 22:44 |
| alterego | bingo | 22:44 |
| kerio | I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will swap batteries in the dark. | 22:45 |
| alterego | I mean, maybe :) | 22:45 |
| loft306 | as the pic i saw had clips that went too far under the side of the case to pull out at the other end | 22:45 |
| kerio | War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is swapping batteries in the dark. | 22:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: is this funny? if yes then please check backscroll (only a few hours) to find the right partner for your jokes | 22:46 |
| loft306 | https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/u8C39jXauDdajDJGYioFUGwBtj4LaKFthfHhGPQpJDE?feat=directlink DocScrutinizer | 22:47 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, what's your take on da N950? | 22:47 |
| kerio | Anything that can possibly go wrong, swaps batteries in the dark. | 22:47 |
| Sc0rpius | if N950 is real, I'm up for it | 22:47 |
| kerio | Sc0rpius: it's definetely real | 22:47 |
| kerio | it's just not for you | 22:47 |
| kerio | :( | 22:47 |
| Sc0rpius | why not? | 22:47 |
| Sc0rpius | it has everything I want: physical keyboard, Meego and multitouch | 22:48 |
| kerio | because it's reserved for devs, and has no warranty | 22:48 |
| kerio | you can't buy one from nokia | 22:48 |
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| Sc0rpius | well but eventually will be released to the public | 22:48 |
| loft306 | haha | 22:48 |
| kerio | ...no | 22:48 |
| kerio | that's the point | 22:48 |
| Sc0rpius | NO?!? | 22:48 |
| MoonTiger | no ... just for devs | 22:49 |
| Sc0rpius | nah Nokia won't be that stupid | 22:49 |
| MoonTiger | limited numbers available | 22:49 |
| MoonTiger | and a dev device for..... not the N9 | 22:49 |
| kerio | Sc0rpius: remember that elop is guiding it | 22:49 |
| Sc0rpius | even if we have to wait a year, they WILL release it | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia hopes to sort out problems with N950 | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | they haven't developed it to bin it | 22:49 |
| * MoonTiger wonders if the N950 has a wobbly usb port too | 22:50 | |
| loft306 | haha | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | allegedly not at all | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | somebody who should know meant you'd rather tear off other parts than the USB | 22:51 |
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| loft306 | thttp://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-pictures-a-gallerys-worth-of-meego-to-tell-the-stor/ | 22:53 |
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| loft306 | http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/#4243170 | 22:56 |
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| Jaffa | Oh FFS. Yet another "it was the name change from ITT -> TMO which broke the forums" post. | 23:05 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 23:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, you're just to close to it to see the problem. | 23:05 |
| SpeedEvil | It was the mass market that broke the forums. | 23:05 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: +1 | 23:05 |
| * Jaffa did not expect to see this argument crop up in the N9 thread. Admittedly, I shouldn't be surprised. | 23:06 | |
| SpeedEvil | If you want mass market and sane fourms - you generally need actual paid mods. | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | With liberal use of the ban button. | 23:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I think the organic self-management approach didn't work well. | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Or the right captchas. | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | 'Evaluate this C expression, taking proper note of operator precedence' | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: isn't it the truth? ;-P N9 clearly doesn't qualify as NIT | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so maybe if it were Itt still, we would've see N950 instead N9 for mass market | 23:09 |
| Jaffa | Is there a good URL to include on Nokia Care reports about USB port breakage? | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | a metric ton | 23:10 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Maemo-Devices/Nokia-responds-to-reports-about-the-N900-micro-usb-port-getting/td-p/629019 looks quite good | 23:10 |
| * SpeedEvil is annoyed he diddn't send his n900 off for repair to fix the slightly dodgy USB port before they ran out of motherboards. | 23:11 | |
| Jaffa | Oh, they've run out of motherboards? | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54762 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | Well, I look forward to seeing them fix it :-) | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | They can replace it with an N9 | 23:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: Someone was in about a week ago, they sent him back an n8 I think | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | That'd do. I've got another N900 | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | My brother's "borrowed" my N8 | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | *yawn* | 23:12 |
| monoid | i compared n8 to n900 camera. it is an improvement, but n900 is quite good | 23:13 |
| monoid | i wish they had kept the kickstand on n8 though | 23:14 |
| monoid | but some people @ nokia seem to favor the 'lesss is more' approach | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I like the camera cover. | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, ping? | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I t means that I don't have to worry about fingerpirnts | 23:15 |
| * monoid nods | 23:15 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | "less is more" - another bit to make my permanent deja-vu feel worse | 23:16 |
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| * DocScrutinizer sees green cards with Laotse rhymes in front of his mental eye | 23:17 | |
| SpeedEvil | Freedom is slavery! | 23:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you still got your green card? or you never had one? | 23:19 |
| * GeneralAntilles applied for an N950 through the community program. | 23:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 23:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Good luck! | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | judging by the press photos Nokia already plans to sell N950 without warranty and strictly for devels. | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, iirc that's been exactly what OM did on Neo 1973 | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - given that it's a loaner - it seems unlikely there would be a warranty. | 23:21 |
| monoid | people who have 770s, N810s and N900s should also be able to get N950 | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | 3310 too. | 23:21 |
| monoid | heh | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to port snake. | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Going for the UI/graphics design, testing and feedback angle. | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: they wouldn't print a box "for devels only" when they would plan to just give out 250 loaners | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - I diddn't see the box. | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/#4243169 | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Companies do silly things. | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Look at OM and the webstore development effort. | 23:23 |
| cehteh | i wonder how 'without warranty' works in the EU | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: If it's a loaner... | 23:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: aiui this is mainly about the sw | 23:25 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Or making comletely fake n900 as a design that doesn't share any parts. | 23:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's weird for sure | 23:26 |
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| cehteh | cant they mix the n9 and the n950 and release a n9½ | 23:27 |
| javispedro | harry potter edition? | 23:27 |
| cehteh | :) | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, for 20k units it may easily pay back | 23:27 |
| monoid | is there anything better about the n9? | 23:27 |
| cehteh | well i wont buy either .. so doesnt really matter :P | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: and I guess they need several k for all the shops of this world | 23:28 |
| jacekowski | monoid: bit faster | 23:28 |
| jacekowski | monoid: more memory | 23:28 |
| cehteh | n9 sleek design, amoled, but keyboard and resistive touchscreen (well the 950 has capacitive too or?) | 23:28 |
| jacekowski | n9 has resistive? | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 23:29 |
| cehteh | n9 has capacitative | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | both have | 23:29 |
| cehteh | guessed so | 23:29 |
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| cehteh | well and no fm transmitter, no IR ... | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | there might be fmtx | 23:29 |
| cehteh | you have to make some compromises for sleek design | 23:29 |
| cehteh | ok maybe .. (well is its antenna connected?) | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | IR always been a fake | 23:30 |
| cehteh | it works for 20cm distance :P | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 23:30 |
| cehteh | real ir tranceiver would be nice | 23:30 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders how many remotes would respond as well to the flash LED pulsed at 48khz | 23:30 | |
| SpeedEvil | 3 | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even notebook have IR nowadays | 23:31 |
| cehteh | but the n9 got a compass finally | 23:31 |
| cehteh | (hey where are the gyros now?) | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Compasses were $30 or so when the n900 was designned | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | they are now around $1.5 | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the problem: you can't pulse flash that fast | 23:31 |
| jacekowski | woot? | 23:31 |
| cehteh | has the n950 a compass? | 23:31 |
| jacekowski | no fm transmitter? | 23:31 |
| jacekowski | hmm, i really liked that in my n900 | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: unless it's on the right sort of GPIO | 23:32 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: not 'official' .. but maybe there is one | 23:32 |
| javispedro | to the schematics!!! | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: unlikely, needs driver chip | 23:32 |
| javispedro | oops... not there yet. | 23:32 |
| javispedro | ;P | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - driver needs to be able to do it | 23:32 |
| cehteh | next question: will the n9 be more oben as the n900? hardware wise | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Or hooked to a GPIO | 23:32 |
| cehteh | open | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | again unlikely | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is no meego proper after all | 23:33 |
| * cehteh just hopes his n900 will last some years more | 23:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer | at least they seem to have gotten some sort of API for charger | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: get spare | 23:34 |
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| cehteh | haha | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm already looking for a 3rd and possibly 4th | 23:34 |
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| cehteh | as soon the n9 is released n900 prices (used ones) should drop :P | 23:34 |
| monoid | oh i dunno | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I probably don't like those used devices. The users clearly disqualified themselves as not taking much care about the device's value | 23:36 |
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| Venemo | you can't tell from the exterior whether those careless morons overclocked or not | 23:36 |
| * Jaffa will have a spare looking for a good home (if repaired by Nokia Care). Don't need two for MeeGo/Maemo dev when it's not me primary phone. | 23:36 | |
| Venemo | so you buy used N900 and one day it will just stop working because of them. | 23:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: exactly | 23:37 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | like buying car with miles counter reset | 23:38 |
| Sc0rpius | I never overclocked my device | 23:38 |
| cehteh | Venemo: well i care more about mechanical spare parts | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, indeed, touchpanel, kbd, etc most important | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | you possibly could even get a OMAP3430 to swap | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | but no touchpanel | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | or keymat | 23:39 |
| cehteh | exactly | 23:39 |
| Venemo | I would clap if you could desolder and re-solder the OMAP | 23:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hah, you have no idea | 23:40 |
| cehteh | with the right tricks and equipment | 23:40 |
| cehteh | (i dont have) | 23:40 |
| cehteh | well baking oven :P | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | for preheating, yes | 23:41 |
| cehteh | desolder woudld work :P | 23:41 |
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| cehteh | how many years will nokia keep spare mainboards around? | 23:41 |
| MoonTiger | hmmmmm the engadget gallery of the N950 does look purdy if those are actual pics | 23:41 |
| cehteh | from now on should be 3-5 at least | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | they're already out of spare | 23:41 |
| cehteh | yes? | 23:41 |
| cehteh | outch | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 23:42 |
| cehteh | crap | 23:42 |
| jaska | soo, when usb connector breaks they solder it? | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | incredible, unparalleled | 23:42 |
| cehteh | well next reason for not buying n9 or n950 | 23:42 |
| jaska | instead of just replacing | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | no jaska you get N8 | 23:42 |
| cehteh | n900 had at least a bit future | 23:42 |
| jaska | haha | 23:42 |
| jaska | doc, id take the n8, drop it on the floor and stomp it | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | no haha | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | we had 2 or 3 reports like that now | 23:43 |
| MoonTiger | that would suck eggs ... an N8 for a N900?? | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | last 2 weeks | 23:43 |
| jaska | thats like trading my mercedes for a toyota corolla dx | 23:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You know what we really don't need more of? | 23:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Duopolies | 23:43 |
| * GeneralAntilles doesn't get internet commenters. | 23:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dict duopolies | 23:44 |
| Guest36683 | could not find definition for duopolies | 23:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Like a monopoly | 23:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | but with two parties | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 23:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Android and iOS in this case. | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | like republicans and err labour? | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, exactly. | 23:45 |
| jaska | democrats and republicans, right wing and more right wing :) | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | or what's the "other" party called over there? | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | jaska, you've got that backwards. :) | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or actually, upside down. | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right and left don't actually apply appropriately | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 23:46 |
| jaska | gen: i meant repubs are more on the right but democrats are still right wing compared to what we have here | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Democrats and Republicans are both in favor of telling you what you can and cannot do with your time, money, property, and body. | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | jaska, yes, more people who want to tell you what to do with your time, money, property and body. | 23:47 |
| monoid | nokia forced me to like their products by making great stuff :( | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Politics isn't 1 dimensional. | 23:47 |
| monoid | evil maemo people | 23:47 |
| jaska | gen: in one way its 1-dimensional.. they all suck. | 23:48 |
| jaska | but enough of that :) | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I agree | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | monoid: even worse they now keep the best stuff for themselves | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | (though I suspect for different reasons) | 23:48 |
| monoid | think they might raise the number above 250? | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh there are some 1000s of them. Reserved for contractors etc | 23:49 |
| jaska | have to mug a contractor | 23:50 |
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| hno | The 250 N950s is for loaners in the Meego community. There is apparently a larger barch for sale to commercial developers. | 23:58 |
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| monoid | sigh | 23:58 |
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| monoid | maybe i camp in front of HQ in helsinki with a big sign | 23:59 |
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