IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-06-11

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javispedro'Honestly, only 1 out of 500 customers comes in here asking for a Windows phone,' he said. 'Verizon won't roll them out to kiosks until it performs better on the market.'00:16
keriohmm... best overall s60 phone?00:16
kerioi'm undecided between n95 and 6120c00:17
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hiemanshunothing could beat it00:21
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keriohiemanshu: hahaha no00:26
keriosomething *good*00:26
kerionid0: the e90 is not s60, come on00:27
kerioi mean, technically yeah00:27
nid0it shouldnt be s60, but it is00:27
jacekowskiold N-Gage00:27
kerioyou guys are making this hard00:27
keriobest overall s60v3 phone?00:27
nid0e90 by miles, still :D00:28
hiemanshukerio: N73?00:28
hiemanshukerio: N85?00:28
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keriothe n73 is a candybar n95 without the good camera00:28
hiemanshuwell actually00:28
javispedrothe nokia c3 gold plated edition00:28
keriothe n85... hm, maybe00:28
hiemanshuI own a N8200:29
RST38hjavispedro: WP7 isn't exactly a bestseller, indeed00:29
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RST38hAnyone who sends or posts an image online (and yes, that includes TwitPics) that they "reasonably should know" would "cause emotional distress" could face several months in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. [in Tennessee]00:31
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javispedroRST38h: so, will Nokia tank after or before shipping the first harmattan device? place your bets, gentlemen!00:32
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nid0the moron senator that thought that one up causes me great emotional distress over the devolution of these wonderful things called "common sense" and "intelligence", and therefore should go to jail00:32
RST38hjavis: you think Nokia will ship harmattan device?00:33
RST38hnid0: send him the tubgirl!00:33
hiemanshusend him ascii goatse00:33
hiemanshuand the real one00:33
hiemanshuand ask em to compare?00:33
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javispedroRST38h: I do believe, that, eventually, they will at least try to ship once... otherwise the clusterfsck increases by an order of magnitude.00:35
RST38hjavis: so far looks like everyone has abandoned the ship00:36
* SpeedEvil sighs.00:36
javispedroa few words more by elop and this goes directly into history books00:36
* RST38h likes this one better:
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* SpeedEvil ponders the truly amusing prospect of M6 outselling W7.00:36
RST38hjavis:it will already go to the history books00:37
RST38hjavis: looks like WSJ reported on Samsung trying to bid on Nokia =)00:37
SpeedEvil(regrettably unlikely - but...)00:37
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RST38hSpeed: I kinda suspect M5 will outsell W7 :)00:37
javispedroone thing is for sure: s60 will outsell w7 =)00:38
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javispedroasus has gone berserk, they now make virtually everything that could be made. a 3d glasses free ebook reader? check. "padfone?" check.00:40
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RST38hif they only made it in good quality...00:40
RST38hasus still not making digital camers though, samsung does, shitty ones00:40
javispedro"Eee Videophone"00:41
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SpeedEvilEEEEeeeee shower - the heater works half the time00:42
* javispedro now realizes that the EEE is kinda a pun on the _i_Devices =(00:42
user0any list of bugs for the Maemo 5/PR1.3 ?00:42
SpeedEvileee was first wan't it?00:43
SpeedEviluser0: yes00:43
javispedroSpeedEvil: earlier than ipod?00:43
SpeedEvil!bug 1000:43
povbotBug Missing sample application for libOSSO00:43
SpeedEviljavispedro: err - probably not00:43
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user0SpeedEvil : thats for the list of fixed bugs00:44
SpeedEviluser0: It's not - it's for the list of all reported bugs00:44
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user0i was talking about the link i pasted00:45
SpeedEvilyes - you need to fiddle with your serarh00:45
SpeedEvilso you get all bugs00:45
user0im viewing it now00:47
user0big fuckn list00:47
javispedrowhat did you expect00:48
javispedrothis is an entire OS...00:48
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user0SpeedEvil : nokia planning on releasing anything beyond PR1.3?00:49
user0or is it known to be the last00:49
user0javispedro : true.00:49
SpeedEvilThey are releasing one new 'meego' device.00:50
SpeedEvilWhich isn't really meego.00:50
SpeedEvilIt may be happening in the next couple of weeks.00:50
SpeedEvilAt least - they've said so.00:50
javispedrona, the rumour comes from the fcc disclosure date00:51
SpeedEvil(they've said they're releasing it - not that ti'll be released in the next couple of weeks)00:51
SpeedEvilyeah - that00:51
* lardman crosses his fingers for a release in the next few weeks00:52
user0javispedro : the one that talked about the meego developers edition ?00:52
javispedrowhile we're at it. do I have to start stocking cyanide pills, to distribute when june passes by with no new devices?00:52
user0thats what you mean by fcc?00:52
lardmanFederal something Commission00:52
javispedrouser0: I have no other information than what was posted on the fcc.00:53
lardmanlinks to it00:53
lardmanfirst hit on Google for "fcc n950"00:53
* lardman heads for bed00:54
user0SpeedEvil : so this means all we have now is the community ssu update?00:54
lardmannight all00:54
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SpeedEviluser0: There is the meego desktop environment.00:54
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user0but they aren't planning for PR1.400:54
user0and this meego has no apps yet00:54
SpeedEvilI would put the likelyhood of a nokia update to the N900 as about equally likely to be WP7, PR1.4, and gnu hurd.00:55
user0a few i'd guess00:55
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user0SpeedEvil : i watched this presentation yesterday regarding the meego developers edition for the n90000:56
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user0you cant tell if its gona work out in the end00:56
DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: I hope the blogger will pay royalties fir that URL, as that's what I said after 5min00:56
user0its like they just want developers to be able to develop for the OS using a device thats available atm00:56
SpeedEviluser0: Exactly00:57
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user0waste of time installing meego atm00:58
user0unless someones willing to help out00:58
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DocScrutinizeruser0: that's exactly the point01:04
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javispedro!/zehjotkah/status/79270983592194049 "Nokia N9 revealed!"01:17
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PolarFoxIn twitter, must be true.01:17
SpeedEvilThe tune is wrong01:18
DocScrutinizernext one luring me into clicking this FSCKING twitter URLs that gibe we a blank screen after loading some 100 pics01:20
DocScrutinizergive me*01:20
* DocScrutinizer does echo >>/etc/hosts01:21
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: evidently, it is a fake.01:22
DocScrutinizercome back when you got a page that actually loads01:22
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DocScrutinizeras I won't move to MSIE for watching sites that are too stupidly maintained to work with arbitrary browsers01:23
nox-haha that just links to*01:24
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* nox- ff4 with noscript01:24
nox-on freebsd too :P01:24
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nox-i guess that sounded more harsh than it was meant01:43
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DocScrutinizernox-: what?01:52
* DocScrutinizer fails to sense harsh words, except own bitching against twitter01:52
nox-heh ok01:53
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DocScrutinizerI admit I sometimes fail on social skills though01:53
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i was arguing with somebody on irc saying that N900 is low end device because it has resistive touchscreen and it doesn't cost as much as samsung galaxy S01:55
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Shorukeni hate getting into an anecdote when alluva sudden a word containing P or F causes a fountain of spittle to erupt.01:57
DocScrutinizerhmm, so what? If you're not afraid of some dudes not getting the sarcasm...01:57
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: he was being serious01:58
javispedrothis conversation is kinda surrealist, am I missing messages or something?01:58
jacekowskiand another stupid thing i've seen today01:58
DocScrutinizeraah, *he* said that01:58
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jacekowskii got an e-mail from somebody and his signature was looking like that --\nName Surname\ne-mail address - \n are newlines for people not knowing01:59
jacekowskiwhat's the point of having e-mail address in e-mail signature01:59
ShadowJKbecause modern email clients hide the email address in the header02:00
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the world goes apeshit02:00
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: for last 100 years02:00
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: No Fat Chicks?02:00
nox-ShadowJK may be onto something...02:00
jacekowskiShadowJK: outlook doesn't02:00
DocScrutinizerNational Fake Control02:00
jacekowskiShadowJK: opera doesn't02:00
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's because users must get protected from such nasty details like true pathnames, email-addr, etc02:02
nox-that reminds me of..
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: users are supposed to click "Answer", "Add to Contacts", whatever. So what's the friggin use of placing the email addr into signature so all these brilliant concepts fail and users' eyes will bleed from looking at it?02:03
javispedrousers are supposed to click Reply _to ALL_02:04
SpeedEvilWith a convenent 'reply to all in your list' button too, that will mail everyone in your contacts list the email.02:05
DocScrutinizerhonestly, rather than adding my email to signature I'd maybe better should add a replyto:billsucks@ms.com02:05
javispedroSpeedEvil: exactly02:06
javispedrobut it might not be needed because the email they are reapplying is already a spammy powerpoint thingie02:06
javispedrocontaining most of their contacts02:06
DocScrutinizeroh yeah, the "to: <list of all my contacts - THANKYOU asshole>" mails02:07
DocScrutinizernow only make each of the recipients click "Add All To Contacts" and HOORAY02:08
* DocScrutinizer ponders oiling the rifles02:09
* javispedro ponders what to buy in amazon so as to get free shipping02:09
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DocScrutinizerbuy "free shipping" ;-P02:10
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ds3a 32G Class 10 microSD card02:10
* DocScrutinizer sets up an ebay auction selling "feee shipping" to the highest bid02:11
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DocScrutinizerfree even02:11
DocScrutinizeris there anything else bizarre we could talk about?02:12
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MohammadAGds3, do those even exist?02:13
DocScrutinizerheard there are now02:13
Hurrianugh, when's the 64GB card coming out?02:14
MohammadAGhow many body parts will that cost me?02:14
DocScrutinizerwell NFI about class1002:14
ds3MohammadAG: 32G does... donno about the class 10 part02:14
MohammadAGwas more interested in the class 10 part :p02:14
DocScrutinizerclassX is a fake anyway02:14
DocScrutinizerso never mind02:14
MohammadAGbtw, having songs on a uSD loads them marginally faster02:14
MohammadAGno real benchmarks02:15
ds3not completely02:15
ds3an unclassed card was painfully slow compared to a class402:15
DocScrutinizerfor all practical purposes it is02:15
DocScrutinizerask ShadowJK02:15
MohammadAGso MeeGo isn't practical02:15
DocScrutinizerthat's never been a discussed issue, of course it's not practical ;-P02:16
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ds3can MeeGo talk to the radio yet?02:16
ds3have to ask =)02:17
DocScrutinizerthe real FM radio?02:17
ds3no, the above 1GHz radio that is neither WiFi or BT02:17
DocScrutinizeraah, think they can, somewhat02:17
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DocScrutinizer"even" SHR can02:17
DocScrutinizersince quite some time02:17
ds3and do 3G data?02:17
DocScrutinizersince a few fays we got semi-decent audio too for calls ;-P02:18
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DocScrutinizernot released yet though02:18
MohammadAGI think it can do 3G yeah02:18
DocScrutinizerif it can do GPRS then it can do 3G02:19
javispedrofee shipping!02:20
ShadowJKActually, class X isn't fake as such. It's a perfect measurement of what kind of performance you can expect if you set your digital camera to rapidfire ;p02:20
ShadowJKbut that's about the only place it's relevant02:20
ShadowJKI don't know if MeeGo QA used a Kingston or Transcend, but apparently it randomly "doesn't work"02:22
javispedro"randomly doesn't work" is a phrase I've heard many times with the current state of afairs in meego n900, sadly.02:22
DocScrutinizerdo we start to guess about root cause of that now? Nah, better not02:23
MohammadAGI'm giving meego another chance02:23
MohammadAGnow I'm wondering what I should try02:24
MohammadAGmeego-tablet or handset02:24
MohammadAGand after that, de-sanity or de-acceptance02:24
javispedroDocScrutinizer: simple: reduced manpower. needs way more contributors, and specially testers with experience02:24
DocScrutinizertry tablet, a fast one. Less chances for races02:24
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, well... a) Kingston only pretends to have read the SD spec b) there's some funny mmc timing code in maemo's kernel atleast02:24
MohammadAGshouldn't that be a in- and un-?02:24
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ShadowJKKingston cards have issues elsewhere too due to randomly not responding in the 250ms the spec requires02:25
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I won't answer this as I opted not to "act erratically" once again. See my advice to MohammadAG for a clue what I think is the true root cause02:25
jacekowskiShadowJK: but how they do it02:26
jacekowskiShadowJK: if they are not even making them02:26
jacekowskiShadowJK: they are only assembly company02:26
jacekowskibuy off the shelf flash chip, controller put it together and sell02:26
jacekowskiand that's all they doing02:26
MohammadAGit needs less QML imo02:27
jacekowskiwith same controllers and flash chips everybody else is using02:27
javispedrojacekowski: they can _choose_ the controller02:27
javispedro(and go bankrupt =) )02:27
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jacekowskijavispedro: there are only so many controllers available02:27
ShadowJKjacekowski, they aren't assembly company either02:27
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I bet each company has their own flavour of the controller firmware02:28
ShadowJKthey actually also have their own controller (in cooperation with someone else, I forget who). It's beyond crap02:28 giving me 500kb/s, I'm actually impressed02:29
javispedroit's akamai02:32
javispedrospecially static files like .debs02:32
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MohammadAGjavispedro, meego image02:39
Thordasinhi all, i'm blind and working on a project to make my n900 talk. is anyone here familiar with u-boot?02:39
MohammadAGjust ask I guess, though #meego would be a better place for uboot/meego related issues02:41
MohammadAGor #meego-arm, not sure02:41
javispedroactually #meego-arm02:41
MohammadAGthanks javispedro02:41
Thordasini asked on meego-arm the other day and they really didn't have an answer for me.02:43
SpeedEvilThordasin: What's your u-boot question?02:43
Thordasini was told to go to #maemo that there were some sharp guys over there :)02:43
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javispedroit must be quite a hard question :) shoot.02:43
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Thordasindon't know what just happend :)02:44
MohammadAGasking here wouldn't hurt I guess02:44
SpeedEvilWhat's your u-boot question?02:44
Thordasini have it built and working but it wants to load from the sd card, i have my debian rootfs on the emmc, how do you change the boot device?02:45
DocScrutinizerthat's a queation MohammadAG should be able to answer02:46
Thordasinthe readme talks about bootargs, but i can't find the file where they set them.02:46
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG made his device boot meego from eMMC02:46
Thordasinyes thats the built in 32gb02:46
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, Thordasin last time I asked ali1234 he said he couldn't get uboot to read the eMMC02:46
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I use flasher-3.5 -k image -l -b "custom cmdline"02:47
Thordasinwhich means you get maemo normal if you power off and back on right?02:47
MohammadAGI couldn't get the kernel to recompile with my custom cmdline02:48
Thordasini tried to flash the debian kernel to the phone but its too big. :)02:48
MohammadAGactually I couldn't get it to compile02:48
MohammadAGload it manually02:48
MohammadAGI don't think it goes in the flash, I got a 4MB kernel loaded once02:49
Thordasini've worked on building a kernel for almost a week now with no luck. i can build it no problem but the phone won't load it it powers off or reboots.02:49
MohammadAGit was 2.6.35, was trying to get it on maemo (ha)02:49
MohammadAGof course, I couldn't get past mounting the ubifs02:49
javispedroI would reconsider if you really need a custom kernel, specially if you want to run debian.02:49
Thordasinwhy not take the meego-2.6.37 kernel?02:49
MohammadAGthat would probably be the watchdog not the kernel02:49
MohammadAGit didn't exist back then02:50
Thordasinjavispedro:  what do you mean?02:50
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Thordasinby the way ou guys need to remeber as i'm blind when several people talk i'll miss messages *grin*02:51
MohammadAG(sorry to hear that)02:51
javispedroThordasin: what do you want to get with the new kernel? maybe you do not need it; Debian will probably run fine with the stock kernel.02:51
Thordasinand tty02:52
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ShadowJKBut then Kingston is also known for taking anyone's surplus cards, flash, controllers, etc and branding them as their own02:52
MohammadAGThordasin, are you in R&D mode?02:53
Thordasini don't think so02:53
MohammadAGcause whether it's the stock kernel, or the meego kernel, or a custom one, it'll shut off in 30/60/120s02:53
MohammadAGunless you ping the watchdog02:53
MohammadAGfun times, look at
Thordasinoh, well what hapens is the uboot loads ther kenel and it gets down to starting kernel... then it powers off02:54
MohammadAGyou'll need no-omap-wd02:54
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MohammadAGMeeGo pings the watchdog afaik02:54
MohammadAGYou don't (I'm 99% sure you don't :p)02:54
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ShadowJK <- about kingston :P02:55
ThordasinMohammadAG:  wouldn't i get more boot messages before it powered off if it was the watch dog?02:56
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ShadowJKIf you dont ping the hardware watchdog, it will think the operating system is dead. It makes no effort to talk to something dead, and reboots the system02:58
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MohammadAGThordasin, no idea, I'd give R&D mode a shot03:00
MohammadAG<ShadowJK> If you dont ping the hardware watchdog, it will think the operating system is dead. It makes no effort to talk to something dead, and reboots the system03:01
MohammadAGsince you missed that :p03:01
DocScrutinizerThordasin:  actually after NOLO loads uBoot you got some 30s to start up the kernel and system and start to ping watchdog, otherwise it simply reboots03:01
Thordasinsorry guys it will take a minute to review message, i got stuck in something called chanserv and couldn't get out of it.03:02
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DocScrutinizerThordasin: ooops, chanserv is a bot that's master of this channel03:04
Thordasinohh well i finally hit excape and it closed03:04
DocScrutinizerThordasin: as of all freenode channels actually03:04
Thordasinif the phone reboots its the wqatch dog, is that true if it powers off? i've had both happen this week.03:04
DocScrutinizermay happen as well03:05
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Thordasinok can i have that r&d link again please03:05
DocScrutinizerI'm unsure about what decides if it powers down or reboots03:05
Thordasindo you guys want me to come back and tell you if i get this kernel working? it builds just fine.03:06
DocScrutinizeryou are welcome any time03:06
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MohammadAGyou're welcome :)03:08
ShadowJKthat's funny considering meego-arm says #maemo is a useless wasteland :P03:09
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, yeah, not impressed by that crowd.03:10
DocScrutinizerThordasin: hint: your capslock is set ;-)03:10
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, might be something to help with his eyes :/03:10
ThordasinOOPS THANKS :)03:11
Thordasinbetter :)03:11
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nah, it just reads similar on some MMI03:11
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, hey did I tell you about that fancy Li-Ion charger I ordered?03:11
ShadowJKfancy feature to measure battery internal resistance03:12
Hurriananyone else here surprised that the n900 had a fm transmitter?03:14
nox-Hurrian, its for audio thru car radios etc03:15
MohammadAGnope :P03:15
ShadowJKAlso, it came with a bonus internal short circuit somewhere after the output stage. I did wonder "wtf" when it complained about input voltage being bad, considering my source wwas good for 50A @ 12V. I checked cables to eliminate bad contacts and retried repeatedly while wiggling cables. Then it went bang and started smoking. Fortunately it has a fan, and turned it on to blow all the smoke in my face03:15
Hurriani seriously didnt know that it had an internal fmtx03:15
Hurrianand that you cant use fmrx by default03:15
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javispedroShadowJK: haha03:15
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ShadowJKchina \o/03:15
Thordasinacidently closed :) did i hear some one say the fmt does not work?03:16
Thordasini was going to read the scroll back but acidently closed the window :)03:17
javispedroThordasin: he was just surprised that the N900 had one.03:17
javispedroThordasin: (a FM Radio transmitter, that is)03:17
Thordasinoh ok thought some said it had a short :)03:17
MohammadAGthe FMTX has epic quality if you're in a clear area actually03:18
Thordasinyes thats one reason i got it, i use fmt to listen to books all the time03:18
MohammadAGanyone ever looked into speech recognition engines?03:19
Thordasini own several bluetooth to fmt's and wanted my phone to just have it!03:19
ShadowJKwould've been fun to measure IR of my puffed BP-4L and my useless BP-4L :-/03:19
MohammadAGI want a simple car mode for the N900, something that can fire up my music with one click, route calls to bluetooth/fmtx03:19
MohammadAGsomething I can remember without having to look at the N90003:20
Thordasina while back i did, i mean i worked for 15 years for the irs in the adaptive equipment office and we used dragon all the time, but in linux there are a few gpl'd apps but i'm not sure how good they are hmm one of them had ear in the name03:20
MohammadAGconfirmation by saying Yes/No to the N900 would be nice03:20
Thordasini'd love to work in mae mor but i never could get that hildon test swuit to compile03:22
Thordasinits something you can use to query the objects and focus in the hildon interaface03:22
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Thordasinsorry about the typoes guys i just miss them some times.03:23
MohammadAGno worries03:23
Hurrianoh wow, seriously?03:23
Thordasindo you need both the wd flags?03:25
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MohammadAGI'd give it all 303:26
MohammadAGthe lifeguard and two wds03:27
MohammadAGthey're comma separated afaik03:27
Thordasin3 i only saw 2 let me read again :)03:27
Thordasinok got it03:27
MohammadAGno-lifeguard-reset (though I think that's a maemo software watchdog, it doesn't hurt to try)03:27
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sorry, reading backscroll, had some battles going on in my garden (drunk assholes and police)03:28
MohammadAGdamn, dropped my N900 with the USB plugged in again03:28
Hurrianokay guys, one question, did you ever notice on a stock N900, the USB connector is ever so slightly higher on one side?03:29
ShadowJKHurrian, "it's complicated"03:29
Hurrianafter reading every single page of the long-ass USB thread, i looked at my connector03:29
Hurrian"oh wow, it's slightly bent"03:30
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Hurrian>commence freak out03:30
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (speech recog) pocketsphinx03:30
Hurrianalthough i heard on TMO that they're not really attached straight on03:30
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (s2t)
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: USB is soldered rather poorly, both on adjustment and proper soldering03:35
DocScrutinizerHurrian: a "bent" USB may indicate it has an immanent problem that may cause complete failure way more easily03:36
* DocScrutinizer even thinks 90% of those coming-off incidents are caused by poor soldering03:37
Hurrianuhh, not "bent" as in it wiggles a lot03:37
Hurrianbent as in one side is higher by 1/10ths of 1mm03:37
DocScrutinizeryeah, just slightly non-parallel to the case03:37
DocScrutinizerthey seem to fail to press the component all the way down to PCB when soldering03:38
Hurrianof all components, nokia decides to screw up the charging/data transfer port03:38
DocScrutinizermaking for a gap between PCB mech support pads and the support levers, which is more or less filled with solder then03:39
Hurrianguess i better encase the USB port with hot glue03:39
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Hurrianunder, over and on the sides03:39
DocScrutinizerdoesn't help a lot03:39
DocScrutinizerdoesn't help at all actually03:39
MohammadAGif it's gonna break, it's gonna break03:39
MohammadAGthis is the 5th fall of my N900 with the USB in03:40
nox-next time charge it on the floor? :)03:40
Hurrianand nokia still doesnt want to answer what batch they fixed it?03:40
MohammadAGnox-, letting it fall is better than stepping on it03:41
nox-well, under the sofa then or something03:41
MohammadAGjust sayin03:41
MohammadAGmine's a December batch (2nd one I think)03:41
Hurriandec 2009?03:42
MohammadAGDecember 18th if I remember correctly03:42
MohammadAGit was out of stock before that03:42
nox-how do you find that out?  i think mine doesnt at least need much force un/plugging the usb if thats the same problem...03:42
Hurrianmine was made in mid-feb 2010, and was in storage for a very, very long time03:43
Hurriani bought it in mid-feb 201103:43
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MohammadAGnox-, it was out of stock, so it surely came in a new batch03:43
MohammadAGand it hasn't fell out - yet03:43
MohammadAGfallen*, whatever03:44
Thordasinthis is wierd it says there is no no-retu-wd flag03:44
nox-MohammadAG, well i only remember some ppl having issues needing much force un/plugging, and then breaking the connector that way...03:45
Hurriannox- , are you pulling the usb with your nondominant hand around the N900, and 2/3 fingers from your dominant hand  around the USB connector?03:45
Hurriani find that by doing it that way, i reduce the amount of force needed to pull it out03:45
nox-mine doesnt need much force either way...03:46
Hurrianand from my experience with the N95's AV-out cable, pulling the cable is a very bad idea03:46
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nox-yeah always better to grab the plug not the cable03:47
MohammadAGHurrian, two N900s here, the new requires more force in the same way03:47
Hurrianwhat's the new one's hw revision?03:47
MohammadAG1) the charger's two pins or whatever (clips?) get weaker03:48
MohammadAGboth are 210103:48
nox-how do you check the hw revision again?03:48
MohammadAG2) whatever clips on the inside gets weaker03:48
MohammadAGcat /proc/cpuinfo03:48
HurrianMAG, i can confirm that 1) is true03:48
Hurrianthe charger cable's pins are squishy, unlike the usb data cable which is still strong03:49
Hurrianfor obvious reasons, you know why ;)03:49
MohammadAGthe data cable is actually weaker than the charger for me03:50
HurrianMAG: reflashing a lot? :)03:50
HurrianDocS: did he scratch out a line on the PCB?03:51
nox-confirmed, data cable needs a little more force03:51
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MohammadAGHurrian, 28 times when I was a noob :p03:51
HurrianMAG: i'm seriously tempted to disable watchdogs03:52
MohammadAGbeen in R&D mode since umm, June03:52
MohammadAGor was it April03:52
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, what, press down components? I thought they ust placed them on the board and let the boards sit outside in the sun for awhile03:52
MohammadAG2010 of course03:52
Thordasini can't get the flasher-3.6 to toake the no-retu-wd flag? anyone know why?03:53
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I think that's exactly what they do ;-D03:53
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Thordasinis it ok to paste my small script here so you guys can tell me if i have a typo?03:54
HurrianShadowJK : XD03:54
Hurriani actually laughed in real life03:54
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Hurrianit's funny, because it's probably true03:55
DocScrutinizerThordasin: anything >10 lines will get you in severe troubles03:55
Thordasinno its about 803:55
Thordasinsudo flasher-3.5 $arg1 $arg2 $arg3 $arg403:55
DocScrutinizerusually 3 lines are considered max paste, I'd like to accept 10 in this case03:55
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MohammadAG--set-rd-flags=flag1,flag2,flag3 afaik03:56
DocScrutinizerThordasin: you need to use -set-rd-flag= only once03:56
ShadowJKSome days the sun doesn't shine. That's why USB ports fall out of N900s for no apparent reason03:56
DocScrutinizeryes, exactly what MohammadAG said03:56
Thordasinwell itworks on the first two, its only reject arg403:56
DocScrutinizer--set-rd-flag without parameters gives a list of known ones03:57
Thordasinoh really03:57
MohammadAGyeah, forgot that one03:57
DocScrutinizerthe wiki may be wrong03:57
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Thordasinthats why the web site is wrong03:58
Hurriank guise, g2g, see you all tomorrow.03:58
DocScrutinizerI actually have a hrd time figuring what's retu anyway03:58
Hurrianand on a side note, WMO is terribly outdated03:58
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Thordasinbye :)03:58
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DocScrutinizerWTF WMO?03:59
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Thordasinso i need no-ext-wd not no-retu-wd right?03:59
DocScrutinizerPossible R&D flags:04:01
DocScrutinizer  no-omap-wd04:01
DocScrutinizer  no-ext-wd04:01
DocScrutinizer  no-lifeguard-reset04:01
DocScrutinizer  serial-console04:01
DocScrutinizer  no-usb-timeout04:01
DocScrutinizer  sti-console04:01
DocScrutinizer  no-charging04:01
DocScrutinizer  force-power-key04:01
DocScrutinizerI think retu been a N8x0 thing04:02
Thordasini think you miunderstood my question i just asked should i drop no-retu-wd and put in no-ext-wd :) but never mind i hav eit :)04:03
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Thordasinoh sheees i think i just bricked my phone, i acidently pull the usb while flashing04:10
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ShadowJKi think you should be able to flash it again still04:19
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DocScrutinizerThordasin: no problem04:30
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DocScrutinizerusually nothing bad will happen, just restart flashing process from beginning04:30
Thordasinwow cat got you gusy tongue :)its wierd it comes on no vibrate and stays on the nokia screen and my flasher is not seeing it04:30
DocScrutinizerin rare cases you might have killed NOLO bootloader, and need to follow coldflashing04:31
DocScrutinizeryou're holding the 'u' key, yes?04:32
DocScrutinizerNOKIA screen usually would mean NOLO is ok04:33
DocScrutinizerso flashing should "just work"04:33
DocScrutinizertake care about your battery charging state though!04:33
Thordasini got it i had to put the battery and us calbe in very close togeather04:33
Thordasinbecause if yo put the bat in the phone came on with out power switch :)04:34
DocScrutinizerplease rephrase04:34
DocScrutinizeryeah, that's R&D mode04:34
DocScrutinizeryou should first start flasher, then plug cable, then insert battery04:35
Thordasinok got that now :) never had to do that before04:35
DocScrutinizeryou enabled R&D mode, no?04:35
Thordasinok kernel i compield is flashed no i have to boot to rescue and copy modules04:35
DocScrutinizerI guess that's why it came up on battery insert04:36
DocScrutinizer(actually I think it always "powers up" on battery insert, then reads rd-flags from CAL storage, and usually goes back to off state in a few milliseconds04:37
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Thordasinthat make since04:38
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DocScrutinizerthere's also force-power-key that's somehow related04:39
Thordasinit won't flash until i snap the back on :)04:40
DocScrutinizerI think you can set this parameter to revert to old behaviour despite R&D04:40
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Thordasinah that sound s good i'll try it once i test the krnel04:41
DocScrutinizeractually somebody "who should know his stuff" told me about that when my other device's power-button was ill04:41
DocScrutinizeractually he told me "no problem, you can make device boot up on USB insert"04:43
DocScrutinizerand pointed me to force-power-key04:43
DocScrutinizeryeah, insert battery is a bit different04:43
DocScrutinizerbut hey, it's for engineers to enable R&D04:43
DocScrutinizerso it makes sense device boots up on bat insert as well, in R&D mode04:44
Thordasinwhere are these serial pins they talk about i can't find them04:44
DocScrutinizerserial pins? are located in a recession under battery, some copper pads on PCB04:45
DocScrutinizerthere are some D and parallelogram shaped appertures in the steel under battery. The pads are there04:46
DocScrutinizeralmost impossible to contact without a specially designed service jig04:47
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DocScrutinizereven then you need a level converter as that's low-voltage serial (RS232)04:48
Thordasincan you explain better useing bat pins, simholde wall bottom to give me a refrence please?04:49
Thordasini have a bus priate04:49
Thordasinpirate :)04:49
DocScrutinizerI have to look up for the correct pins, there are some dozen there04:49
Thordasinreally where? i don't see any pinse but the bat pins04:50
DocScrutinizerwill take a while, if you're willing to wait04:50
DocScrutinizerthere are holes in the steel under the battery04:50
Thordasinsure i'll be here but tell me where the doxen are its killing me that everyone says there here and i can't find them04:51
DocScrutinizercheck for the holes in stell bottom under battery04:51
DocScrutinizeryou need to remove battery, the find them04:51
fusi[n900]oh god04:51
Thordasinyes there are many wholes, is the little round on up at the top to the right of the bat, or the big u shaped slit lower down04:52
DocScrutinizerth elittle round one has two pads D+/- of USB04:52
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DocScrutinizerthe other dozens are on the "slit"04:53
Thordasinah, so holding the phone with the camer away the slit looks like a u which pin is for serial?04:54
DocScrutinizerit's one long parallelogram shaped hole to the middle, and two D shaped ones (trapezoid) next to left wall of battery compartment04:55
Thordasinwow i had to turn r&d off to get the rescue image to work04:55
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DocScrutinizerhave to look up for the right pins for serial04:56
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DocScrutinizerwill take time as I need to find the wiki page04:56
Thordasinsure sorry, thought it was on that picture you were looking at :)04:56
DocScrutinizeroh, there's also a small square hole next to the "round" one - it's just "nothing"04:56
DocScrutinizerno, I'm talking from my memory04:57
DocScrutinizernot now though, opened up device ;-)04:57
DocScrutinizeras I never "looked" at it without using my eyes ;-)04:57
fusi[n900]is that the link ur after
fusi[n900]down the bottom 'serial console'04:58
DocScrutinizerthe D+/- hole is close right to the plastic nose up center04:58
DocScrutinizerfusi[n900]: indeed, though that's not the best *picture*, it is actually ideal for Thordasin04:59
fusi[n900]better img of the back:
fusi[n900]ill stop spamming crud to channel now ^^05:00
cehtehthere where this FCC photos which where pretty detailed05:00
DocScrutinizeractually that page is about N8x005:00
fusi[n900]just realised that :(05:01
DocScrutinizernp, help appreciated05:01
Thordasinso i did not understand where the pads are, could you start at the uper elft of the u and count pads around the u to the right.05:01
cehtehDocScrutinizer: the usb under the battery is that a 2nd usb or just the same as on the socket?05:01
DocScrutinizersame as on socket05:02
fusi[n900]found it for n900: - scroll down to debug ports05:02
DocScrutinizeryes, that one05:03
cehtehok thanks05:03
DocScrutinizerThordasin: you "see" the "Here are the pad names..."05:04
Thordasinsorry was trying to figure out why my rescue image won't work anymore.05:05
Thordasinchecking it now05:05
DocScrutinizerthe    "  + J5301 " is the upper of both D+/- pads, you have to hold device with cam to the left to get same orientation as on this diagram05:06
fusi[n900]gl, i gotta shoot o/ x05:09
Thordasini book marked it thats going to take some serious study for a blind man :)05:09
DocScrutinizero/ and thanks05:09
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DocScrutinizerI'm afk for a bit05:10
DocScrutinizerThordasin: ping me if any questions05:10
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Thordasinok thanks i think i'm awk for a bit as well my ack is killing me :)05:11
Thordasinoops afk :)05:11
GeneralAntillesCan Windows application UIs be less consistent, please?05:16
DocScrutinizereven less?05:16
DocScrutinizeror are you talking about consitant annoyance?05:17
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GeneralAntillesThe web browsers change every version.05:18
GeneralAntillesIt's becoming ridiculous.05:18
GeneralAntillesIf you're going to try to ape Apple all the time05:18
GeneralAntillesat least try to do it not-shit.05:18
DocScrutinizerI always found windows sucks consistently05:19
GeneralAntillesBut I know there's going to be a time when I need it on my laptop.05:19
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DocScrutinizerI feel with you, been there done that05:19
DocScrutinizerthere are those industry tools... :-S05:20
DocScrutinizermentorgraphics PADS for example05:20
DocScrutinizeryou're pretty much at "use it or quit the job", if your company decided that's what you develop hw on05:21
DocScrutinizerand actually there's rarely any comarable tool on linux05:22
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dangergrrlyes, my jobs often bought crap dev tools05:25
dangergrrlbut i got to play with logic analyzers and ICEs05:25
GeneralAntillesSo, round two.05:30
GeneralAntillesThe Ubuntu installer still doesn't see that I installed Windows.05:30
* GeneralAntilles cries.05:30
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DocScrutinizerfor an example05:47
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: yeah, had that weird project where I developed a PCB on Eagle for linux, but the atmel flasher worked on genuine DOS only05:53
DocScrutinizerwas a nightmare to keep the project files in sync and one place05:53
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dangergrrlwell, you have an EE you probebly got to do more fun stuff than me05:56
DocScrutinizerjust for the laughs and giggles you had to throttle the processor for flashing, as there's been a hard delay coded into the flasher program, that didn't work on contemporary 486 any more05:56
dangergrrli did unix kernel and embedded work for a long time though05:56
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* DocScrutinizer *yawns*05:59
DocScrutinizergetting way to bright outside...06:00
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: get a DISTRO, a *real* distro06:02
DocScrutinizernot that buntkuh crap06:02
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: you know buntkuh can't ever detect there's windows, as buntkuh IS windows06:04
infoboti heard buntkuh is ... Redmond06:04
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DocScrutinizerit thinks you're running an update ;-P06:05
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SpeedEvilOn an unrelated matter - is chromium available from any repo now?06:06
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dangergrrlis that why i can't use the vbox addons in my build vm?07:18
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: ping09:45
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Seen the CO meeting agenda for 14th June09:46
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mikhasJaffa, what? where?10:42
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edheldil_Hi all, I want to write a simple game for my children - displaying some animal pictures, playing sounds, selecting a correct picture. I am too old to lose time with C, so I want to use Python. Should I use Qt or Gtk? (I know PyGtk, but rather through Glade). What are the good learning resources for them on n900? Should I use scratchbox anyway?11:38
robbiethe1stIf you've got a Linux desktop, you can simply write the PyQT code there, drop it onto the n900, and run it.11:38
robbiethe1stPython/PyQT is the same between the N900 and desktop Linux, aside from the theme(basically)11:39
edheldil_is not it the same with PyGk, apart from some App classes?11:39
mikhasor use PySide :-)11:39
robbiethe1stDunno; I've only used Python/PyQT11:40
mikhasedheldil, alternative Python bindings for Qt11:40
mikhasquite popular in Maemo land, or so I heard11:40
edheldil_Thank you, I will look into that11:42
edheldil_or at it11:42
edheldil_I guess there's nothing like iPhone's xcode, is there?11:44
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robbiethe1stedheldil: There's always HTML/JS11:45
robbiethe1stJust use a full-screen browser window, and you've got an instant application framework. Just load files locally, and it'll be plenty fast11:46
hiemanshuedheldil_: my PyQt desktop apps run just fine with a changed ui for the N90011:47
hiemanshuno change in code11:47
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mikhasxcode, as in, IDE?11:57
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mikhasedheldil, just googled up
mikhasedheldil_, ^11:59
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edheldil_mikhas:  I know Eric. xcode is something like eclipse+glade+blender's game creator12:04
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edheldil_(BGC in the sense of connecting signals by dragging lines)12:05
mikhasoh wow12:05
edheldil_not *that* powerful :)12:05
mikhascertainly sounds powerful to me12:06
mikhasif you say it like that12:06
edheldil_the BGC was meant more in the sense of control style, not the results12:06
edheldil_asked another way: are n900's PyQt/PySide apps usually programmed completely in a text editor?12:08
edheldil_I do not want to miss some obvious tool everybody uses :)12:09
mikhasemacs and vim ... what did you expect?12:10
edheldil_something like Glade+GttkBuilder, perhaps12:10
robbiethe1stThere's the QT builder tool... I do it all in Geany, my favorite text-editor/ide12:11
mikhasQt Creator needs PySide support ...12:12
edheldil_ok, so the usual way is "just a text editor". That's what I wanted to know :)12:12
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mikhasedheldil_, yeah sadly ... just checked - no tools mentioned there12:14
edheldil_thank you for your help, all12:15
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PolarFox N8 sthyle OTG disk... Would work with N900 too .. ;)12:19
PolarFox2bad that I don't have an N900 anymore so I could test.. Nokia service returned my N900... But somehow it changed to N8 on the way.. :(12:20
psycho_oreosI'd complain to them and requesting for return of N900 or I'd sue12:21
psycho_oreostoo bad its a shame you're too soft to even do that but to post something that doesn't even run maemo in a maemo channel12:22
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PolarFoxThey'd most likely would have paid me some amount of money... And I couldn't still get a new N900.12:22
psycho_oreosI was sure you can source N900 freely from internet, people said from amazon or dell12:23
PolarFoxYeah.. and then try to change the keyboard..12:23
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nid0n900's can still be bought12:23
psycho_oreosbetter than n8 which isn't even remotely maemo12:24
psycho_oreoswhats even more is n8's lack of hardware keyboard12:25
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PolarFoxpsycho_oreos: I know.. But at least N8 has a kickass camera :P12:25
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psycho_oreosPolarFox, wow, its only one great feature, `kickass camera'. I'm sure you couldn't even tell the difference between N900's 5MP camera and n8's 12MP camera unless you're a professional photographer. Plus no decent photographers would use a phone to take a picture12:27
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nid0the difference is actually pretty strikingly obvious in almost any condition12:28
PolarFoxWell.. I'm a semi-pro photographer with few DSLR bodies and pile of lenses... so.. :)12:28
nid0plus, its an all-round pretty decent device12:28
PolarFoxI hated N8 for the first few weeks.. But I can live with it until I find a phone that I'd like to buy.12:29
psycho_oreosthere's plenty of other decent devices that nokia produces, but nothing would come close as the maemo series. They were built for a purpose unlike the usual ones12:29
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psycho_oreosI'd never would want to put up with an alternative that's not even the same as original, aboveall its worse than original apart from its 12MP of wow factor12:32
nid0well. in many other ways its also a better productivity tool12:33
psycho_oreosyeah for the type that doesn't want to care how it works, it has to _just_ work12:33
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psycho_oreosI'm sure with that sort of saying, windows phones, iphones, and blackberries be all the same. For those who doesn't care let alone doesn't even care how or why it works, it has to just work.12:36
psycho_oreosmay as well get any one of those as replacement, it'll be just as efficient in terms of productivity. Lets forget about maemo because it isn't productive12:37
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nid0it has nothing to do with how a device works over whether it works, it just has to do with half-assed design at nokia12:37
psycho_oreosthe type of symbian devices are specifically aimed at a different market segment12:37
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psycho_oreoswhat doesn't make the phone is the design or how it works, what makes the phone is a device which is specifically aimed at those of interest to buy. If someone swapped your N900 for N95 would you be happy?12:41
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hiemanshuis there a way to make the apps fullscreen?15:30
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MohammadAGhiemanshu, code it that way?15:36
MohammadAG(there's a way with wmctrl which makes the window manager do it)15:36
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: I got it working, had to change main.cpp to use showFullScreen()15:36
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MohammadAGoh Qt15:38
hiemanshuQt is nice, everythign else is meh :P15:39
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Shapeshiftereh, so how come apt-cache search pax11publish shows pulseaudio-utils - Command line tools for the PulseAudio sound server but the installing that package, it's not there? dpkg -L lists a bunch of other tools but pax11publish is missing.16:10
ShapeshifterI want my n900 to play to my pulse server on my desktop.16:11
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mmarc__I want to install kernel-power, but it it said:16:48
mmarc__The following packages will be REMOVED:16:48
mmarc__  kernel-maemo kernel-modules-maemo mobilehotspot16:48
mmarc__- is it OK?16:48
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Shapeshifterpulseaudio is useless.16:51
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GeneralAntillesJaffa: pong. No.16:58
GeneralAntillesJaffa, ah. See it.16:58
GeneralAntillesWhy does that fall under the CO? . . .16:58
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GeneralAntillesNo mention of the TSG on the linked wiki page.
mikhasGeneralAntilles, well, it's a wiki ... anyone can edit it, right? ;-)17:07
* mikhas considers to just add Jaffa to
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GeneralAntillesI'm sure there's additional non-transparent process involved in getting a nomination to the proposal stage. *g*17:09
mikhaslet's see17:09
mikhasGeneralAntilles, done :-D17:11
* GeneralAntilles prepares for fallout.17:11
mikhasnow let's see how that non-transparent process works17:11
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DocScrutinizerWTF, GeneralAntilles for president of meego?17:41
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, no. President of the Webernets18:43
DocScrutinizerwhatever that is18:43
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ZinovaShi, is it possible to install maemo on ARMv5 tablet ?18:57
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ShadowJKZinovaS, it's unrealistic18:58
ShadowJKeven worse on armv518:59
ZinovaSI see... thanks...19:00
ShadowJKit would be easier with MeeGo, but that's also lots of effort19:00
psycho_oreosnot even 770's firmware? I wonder which CPU they had back then lol19:01
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ShadowJKWell it's not just the cpu19:01
ShadowJKAtleast MeeGo has a procedure for working on the hardware adaptation19:02
ShadowJKwhereas in Maemo you'll just have to do alot of hacking, both in open source and closed source components19:03
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SpeedEvilIsn't armv5 = arm9?19:03
SpeedEvilor 1019:03
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ZinovaSwhat linux could I easly install on my tablet? i just need ffmpeg, usb-bt and usb-serial support...19:06
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ShadowJKi dont think you install anythinh easily on these things :)19:06
ShadowJKUsually first problems start at the bootloader, figuring out how to make it load something from sd or other easy medium19:07
ZinovaSi wonder.. android has linux kernel, and it runs ok on the tablet. why linux itself cant be installed here ...19:07
ShadowJKWell you need to figure out the details.19:08
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ShadowJKNot every device lets you replace files even19:08
ZinovaSfor android i downloaded image, but in in sd, guesed correct config file and it flashed...19:08
ShadowJKWell that's good for running android, if someone has already spent the few man-month-hours for figuring out how to make android run on it, figured out how to install it, and packaged it into easy to use delivery mechanism19:10
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ZinovaSbut the part of booting the kernel is almost the same i think... diference is only what happens after kernel...19:12
ShadowJKusually getting a kernel to boot is the hardest part19:13
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ShadowJKand then if you have no way to create a new image, you have to figure out how to use the existing operating system to overwrite itself with new operating system, without breaking anything in the process19:14
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ShadowJKOr figure out a nice place in the old operating system to add diversion to continue booting from another storage media19:16
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lardmanZinovaS: what is the tablet?19:16
ZinovaSwell that is done in the android (uberoid) image i have... it looks like it extracts some tar archives and puts some config files, after that I boot in to new android install..19:16
ShadowJKThese things are all different between different devices19:17
lardmandoes it have separate normal and recovery kernels, that makes life easier testing Meego out19:17
ShadowJKnot all devices give you easy access to write/extract a tar archive, for example19:17
ZinovaStablet is WonderMedia WM865019:17
lardmanZinovaS: afaiu Android kernels contain an initramfs, you can replace init there to boot whatever you wish19:18
lardmancertainly that's the approach in the Tab and the other devices I know about19:18
dangergrrlit would be nice if the kernel were gplv3, tivoing a device is allowed under gplv219:18
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lardmanyou can then either mount a loop fs or I prefer to mount an external SD card containing the Meego install19:18
ShadowJKCan you still replace the initramfs if you mess it up, or does it need working initramfs in order to write a new initramfs or to reflash/replace android again?19:19
ShadowJKIt's good idea to figure out details for recovery first, and figure out what depends on what :P19:19
lardmanthe Tab has a primary and secondary bootloader, then the kernel19:19
lardmanso you can still flash if you break the kernel19:19
lardmanif you have separate normal and recovery kernels, life is easier, as on the Tab you have to alter init such that it can still boot normal Android if there's e.g. no SD card with Meego on it19:20
ZinovaSwell i tested 14 different configuration flashing my tab, most of them dont even boot, so i think flashing is in the "bios" :)19:21
lardmanto actually boot e.g. Meego you'll need to make some changes to the kernel config though, make sure you enable a console that you can see, etc19:21
lardmanZinovaS: sure, that's fine then19:21
lardmanZinovaS: have you tried extracting the initramfs from your kernel backup?19:21
lardmanI guess you've been able to root the device then backup the kernel partition using dd?19:22
ZinovaSextract with what? (im new to kernel stuff..)19:22
lardmando you have a zImage from the device (rather than one you built yourself)?19:23
lardmantake a look at my work on the Tab here:
lardmanthe extraction scripts will work for you19:23
lardmanor at least should do ;)19:23
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ZinovaSno, i dont have anything from device itself, i started flashing it until it worked again with new versio of andriod...19:24
lardmanbuilding your own kernel?19:25
lardmanbecause you can also pass rootfs (iirc) as a kernel cmdline parameter19:25
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lardmanbut afaiu Android requires things to be setup before you pass control to it, so I assumed one required an initramfs19:28
lardmanI may well be wrong :)19:28
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ZinovaSok, so idea there is that early in the boot process setting rootfs to SD and booting from it?19:30
lardmanthat is one option - what I do is chroot to the SD card after mounting it19:31
lardmanand then run init there19:31
lardmanthis is done in the initramfs19:31
lcukhi simon19:31
lardmanhey lcuk19:31
lcukhow is your code garden today?19:32
lardmanZinovaS: but it is also possible to just set the correct cmdline and boot directly from the sd card19:32
lardmanlcuk: not bad, doing some planting :)19:32
lcuk:) good stuff19:32
lardmanwill have to pack build machine tomorrow, so no coding for a week+19:32
lcukI am just weeding some of the lawn19:32
* lardman hopes he can get broadband setup quickly19:33
lcukoh yeah19:33
lardmanhmm, /me is watching ch1819:34
lardmanjust saw an advert for uniformdating, if you like people in uniforms19:35
lardmanvery odd (to have a website)19:35
lardmanch18 is the music channel for those of you not in the uk19:35
lcukand those in the uk19:35
lardmanwell freeview19:35
fusi[n900]lol ^19:37
ZinovaSlardman, my grep does not have -P option...19:38
fusi[n900]is it worth me trying to get the twitter conv plugin working?19:39
fusi[n900]either with oauth or a auth proxy19:39
ZinovaSlardman, i flashed with that: (135MB)19:40
lardmanZinovaS: is grep with -P required to extract the initramfs?19:42
lardmanI should look at the script, but typing on this netbook isn't much fun19:42
ZinovaSi got script
lardmanwell it should be possible to modify that to work with whatever you do have19:43
lardmanI didn't write it I must admit19:43
lardmanI'd probably code it up in C, but I hate shell scripting ;)19:43
* RST38h moos at lardman19:47
ZinovaSlardman, i think i extracted it..19:48
ZinovaSbut it looks binary..19:48
ZinovaSomg... 477 bytes.. :/19:48
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lardmanhey RST38h19:58
lardmanZinovaS: it's a cpio archive19:58
lardman477 might work if there is only an init in there I guess19:58
lardmanreally this depends on whether you care about being able to still boot Android19:59
lardmanif not then you can probably get rid and just set the kernel cmdline correctly19:59
ZinovaSnot realy, i can flash it back if i want it...19:59
lardmanyou may find that your bootloader overrides whatever you set when you compile the kernel19:59
lardmanin which case you need to modify arch/arm/kernel/setup.c iirc20:00
lardmanyou'll need to do some testing to see what happens, and also to see what the correct cmdline is as I can't remember off the top of my head, sorry20:00
ZinovaSnote: I never successfully compiled a kernel..20:01
lardmanah, well that would probably be a first step20:01
lardmancheck whether there are closed kernel modules you need, check compiler version, etc20:01
lardmanif you can compile everything from the source, then the compiler version is not overly important20:02
ZinovaSthere are some .ko files for wifi adapter..20:02
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lardmanyou may find it says what to use in the kernel source tarball from the manufacturers20:02
lardmanah ok, so you will want to make sure it all works then20:02
lardmanbut that's some way down the line20:02
lardmanbooting it is the first step20:03
* lardman pops to the shop quickly bbiam20:03
ZinovaSok, so i should grab source from (probably latest) and play with it?20:06
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ZinovaSmaybe it would support wifi out-of-box ;)20:07
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lardmanhmm, you'd be lucky20:20
lardmanI'd try to at least get the output of dmesg from Android20:20
lardmanthen you can see whether the modules are likely to be in mainline20:21
lardmanalso your manuf should have provided a tarball20:21
lardmanor even a git repo if you're very lucky20:21
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nicofsI have recently bought a nokia n900 and am very pleased so far - but i can't get instantmessaging to work. ICQ refuses to connect and MSN is "activated" but i don't see any contacts in the list...21:03
nicofsi'm trying to use the on board "conversations" program... if i try pidgin, all is fine...21:04
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Ken-YoungIs there a Hildon widget for selecting a file name?   If not, is gtk_file_selection_get_filename the preferred file selection dialog widget for maemo 5?21:14
Ken-YoungMohammadAG, Thanks!21:16
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nicofshas someone any idea why icq is not working?21:22
Ken-Youngnicofs, What is icq?21:23
nicofsinstant messaging protocol21:23
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cehtehhaha Ken-Young is really young :)21:35
nicofsstill... i can't connect...21:39
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Ken-Youngcehteh - Actually, I'm an old coot.   Very, very few N900 owners are as old as I am.22:00
cehtehheh .. and you dont know icq then? back in 1997 or so they where the first instant messenger in place and everyone wanted to use it22:01
Ken-Youngcehteh, Old can be either too young,  or too old, to remember things from 1997.22:02
infobotKen-Young meant: cehteh, One can be either too young,  or too old, to remember things from 1997.22:02
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* SpeedEvil thinks he remembers using software from Ken-Young in 199722:07
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Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, Maybe so - I wrote my first program in 1970.22:10
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DocScrutinizerdarn, I started with "hardcoded" statemachines soldered together with TTL74xx back when ;-D22:11
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, That's still more maintainable than Perl code.22:12
DocScrutinizereventually exploiting a pocket calculator by interfacing key matrix and display22:12
nicofsi don't want to be rude... but that doesn't solve my problem... *g*22:12
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, Did you drool for years looking at the HP-65 like I did?22:12
Sc0rpiusok I *still* have punched cards from a PDP-11 that I use as bookmarks22:12
Sc0rpiuswith Fortran programming on them22:13
SpeedEvilyeah - it was 1997 - I was using xephem to locate hale-bopp22:13
DocScrutinizersure, especially when some other dude had it borrowed from our physics teacher ;-)22:13
SpeedEvilAnd completely failing to find it due to the light pollution.22:13
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Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, Hyakutake completely ruined me for comets.   I saw it at closest approach on Mauna Kea.   It was bright blue, with a tail twice as long as the Big Dipper.22:14
lardmanhmm, are these things in the sky without strobes?22:16
lardmannot sure I see many of those these days ;)22:17
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Ken-YoungHyakutake moved across the sky at one degree per our at closest approach - you could see its position change relative to background stars in a couple of minutes.22:18
SpeedEvilI think it was cloudy , and again I was living in a bright area for hyakutake22:18
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Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, That's a terrible shame.   I don't think I'll live to se a better comet than that one.22:19
alecjwhi there, why won't my maemo loopmount? when i try to mount -o loop, it says "mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on <mountpoint> failed: No such device" (sorry if this message appeared more than once, connection issues...)22:19
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lardmanalecjw: does that device exist?22:20
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ShadowJKis loop.ko loaded22:21
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lardmanhave you run losetup?22:22
DocScrutinizerI think the way loopmounts work and maybe even the semantics and syntax changed a bit since I last looked at it ;-)22:22
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DocScrutinizernicofs: might be difficult to find a significant number of experts for ICQ, to help you out22:27
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alecjwsorry. connection went again. did i miss anything?22:28
Sicelonicofs: i just found out icq stuff is down22:28
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Sicelohmmm.. but you say it works for pidgin? (/me thinks to retract that... but not working for me..)22:29
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ShadowJKalecjw, is loop.ko loaded, do you have it22:32
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Jaffamikhas: fine by me :)22:34
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alecjwShadowJK: sorry, was afk. i tried modprobe loop, but it says module not found. do i need to compile it?22:57
alecjwactually my phone doesn't have a toolchain... shouldnt it come with loop.ko?22:57
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ShadowJKIt's not used for anything, so it probably doesn't come with it22:57
alecjwthe meego chroot tutorial tells you to loopmount a file, and doesnt mention anything about loop.ko22:58
ShadowJKI guess the tutorial fails :P22:58
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alecjwi can't find any reports of anyone else having trouble with it though, which is a bit odd....22:59
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DocScrutinizertry PK22:59
ShadowJKYeah the tutorial probably assumed power kernel22:59
ShadowJKthey should have mentioned it22:59
alecjwah, can i get that from the repos?22:59
alecjwDocScrutinizer: pk?23:00
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alecjwoh, powerkernel :P23:00
alecjwi'm not trying to install meego btw, just gentoo23:01
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DocScrutinizer/dev/loop0..7 exists on my IroN900 CSSU w/o PK(?)23:02
cehtehis there udev .. or had-wired device nodes without anything behind?23:03
alecjwDocScrutinizer: it exists for me when i ls it too...23:03
DocScrutinizerLinux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux23:03
alecjwi think cehteh's on the money there23:03
alecjwi'm installing "enhanced kernel for power users" now, i'm guessing that's what i want23:04
GeneralAntillesToilet valves replaced. No more running toilets. Woo23:05
ds3gysers plugged?23:05
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DocScrutinizeralecjw: what's the losetup cmd you used?23:06
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alecjwDocScrutinizer: mount -t ext4 filename mountpoint -o loop, i'm going to try again with the new kernel though23:08
DocScrutinizerlosetup, not mount23:08
DocScrutinizeraiui mount -o loop doesn't work23:09
alecjwoh, i thought losetup and mount -o loop were the same23:09
nox-was there something about it needing power kernel?23:09
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alecjwmount works now with powerkernel23:10
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Venemogood evening23:12
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DocScrutinizer>> This type of mount knows about four options, namely loop,  offset,  sizelimit  and  encryption,  that  are  really       options to losetup(8).<< seems mount is just an interface to losetup23:17
DocScrutinizerhi Venemo23:19
alecjwbloomin' 'eck - i didn't realise maemo was without bzip223:20
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Venemo hey DocScrutinizer :)23:22
Venemowhat's up?23:22
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alecjwexcellent, i've got into my gentoo chroot23:31
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alecjwhmm, anyone know what software i can use to handle all the GSM stuff? ie phone calls and texts?23:36
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alecjwi mean a frontend23:38
SpeedEvilKenaleWhat are you trying to do?23:38
SpeedEvilalecjw: It's not possible to really take over the phone functions on maemo without doing truly major lobotomies.23:38
alecjwi don't know how realistic this is, but i was thinking of trying to build my own setup from the ground up for my phone23:39
alecjwstart off with a gentoo stage3 and build up23:39
cehtehtook nokia some manyears to develop :P23:39
alecjwtrue, i'm probably being an idiot :P23:40
alecjwi'm just so frustrated with everything about maemo23:40
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SpeedEvilmeego has gotten the phone working AIUI - that might be a beter starting point23:44
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yigalcan the radiostation on an n8x0 be changed via the command line?23:53
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