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| GeneralAntilles | Holy hell. Jet lag round two. | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a foolproof method for avoiding jetlag. | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Don't fly anywhere. | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I make up for it by having a comedically disturbed sleep schedule without mechanical assistance. | 00:25 |
| lcukn900 | computers are still mechanical | 00:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It didn't help that I was sitting next to "Stinky wide batting stance guy" on the long flight back to Atlanta. | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | and didn't sleep much. | 00:27 |
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| NIN101 | My N900 LED sometimes blinks red, what does it mean(I guess nothing good :-))? | 00:34 |
| NIN101 | at least when I try to charge it... | 00:34 |
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| myuu | on nit droid? | 00:36 |
| arvut | will a backup be enough to restore the phones settings, apps, calender and bookmarks if I choose to reflash it to fix it after I messed it up by installing a devel app? | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It will not restore apps. | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It has a list of apps that you can choose to restore drom the repositories | 00:37 |
| lcukn900 | a backup stores lists of apps and repos | 00:37 |
| arvut | not even reinstall them/redownload them? | 00:37 |
| NIN101 | or it isn't even red, probably orange but never gets really turned on, don't know how to explain. I thnk my usb port is dying, damn it. | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | If the repositories are down - angry birds - say - you can't redownload | 00:38 |
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| arvut | right | 00:38 |
| arvut | and if I reflash, extras-devel will be disabled by default? | 00:38 |
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| arvut | NIN101: I've seen that colour of my LED too once or twice. I know there is an app that lets you configure the led, if that helps | 00:40 |
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| arvut | btw, if x.org is running at 70% cpu and logging something to the /tmp, does that indicate a f-up? | 00:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | Depends on the something. | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | In some cases, X having high CPU is not an error, as the app is asking X to do work | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | what's the error/ | 00:43 |
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| arvut | well, from what I can tell, the device is slow (really slow) from time to time), screen stays black for longer than it should and top reports high cpu usage on X.org -logfile | 00:46 |
| arvut | hildon-desktop likes to freeze too | 00:47 |
| arvut | in other words, not responding, asking me if I wanna close it | 00:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | Look at /tmp/Xorg.0.log | 00:49 |
| arvut | the problem as far as I can tell is that x.org goes from the normal 3.2% cpu usage to 30, 50 & 70% cpu usage, which worries me | 00:49 |
| arvut | SpeedEvil: anything I should look for in it? I already did and I didn't understand it that well | 00:50 |
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| arvut | or should I post a pagebin of it? | 00:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | pastebin | 00:51 |
| arvut | right, typo | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I know. | 00:52 |
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| arvut | http://pastebin.com/m6YUHcF7 | 01:06 |
| arvut | =) | 01:07 |
| arvut | please do try to explain, I wanna learn :P | 01:07 |
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| arvut | not sure this is relevant but if aptitude returns sigsev whenever I try to use it, does that mean my device is acting weird or is it the app itself? | 01:16 |
| arvut | I have experience from using it under ubuntu | 01:16 |
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| arvut | SpeedEvil: found anything? It feels somewhat quiet in here ;) | 01:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | oh - I forgot | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Everything normal in that log | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | On a quick skim anyway | 01:23 |
| arvut | haha, I tend to do that too. | 01:23 |
| arvut | sounds good then, wanna teach me how to read it btw? | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - I get the same warnings at the start too - so that's not an issue | 01:23 |
| arvut | or whatcha be doin? | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget. | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | WW lines are warnings | 01:24 |
| arvut | aha | 01:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | II are informational errors | 01:24 |
| arvut | ok | 01:24 |
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| arvut | double equals must be somehow related to the C language | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not actually helpful in diagnosis - as mine is essentially identical | 01:25 |
| arvut | really? | 01:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 01:26 |
| arvut | a completely different question then; do you know what encryption the backups are protected with? (when they got pw's) =) | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Aren't tehy zips? | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Whch would imply it's zip passwords. | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | (which are broken, with a known plaintext attack if you know 13 bytes at the begiinign of any file BTW) | 01:27 |
| arvut | I tend to create awesome backups of my desktops and how things are arranged exactly the way I want it to be, then pw them | 01:28 |
| arvut | the 13 first bytes of the file when hexdumped? | 01:28 |
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| arvut | you lost me there | 01:29 |
| SpeedEvil | If you know 13 bytes of the compressed file. | 01:29 |
| SpeedEvil | The first 13. | 01:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Then you can work out the password of the archive. | 01:29 |
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| arvut | oh | 01:29 |
| arvut | I bet thats googlable, but if you'd care to explain in more detail that would be cool too =) | 01:30 |
| arvut | why is it so quiet in here at this time of the day anyway? is it a channel mostly used by working devs? | 01:31 |
| vldcnst | we're watching pr0n | 01:32 |
| arvut | aha | 01:33 |
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| arvut | I scry the internet and chat with /dev/null then | 01:33 |
| arvut | I found a funny topic about xorg in the maemo.org forums.. "what the hell is xorg" =) | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Just google known plaintext zipfile | 01:35 |
| vldcnst | SpeedEvil: are you sure you can get the password? | 01:35 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think you can get the password, you can get a password that works though | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget - it's been a decadish since I needed to. | 01:36 |
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| BCMM | arvut: not all maemo users are otherwise linux users | 01:44 |
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| arvut | BCMM: since maemo is a linux distro then I would say they are :) | 01:47 |
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| BCMM | i said "otherwise" | 01:47 |
| arvut | oh, sorry =P | 01:48 |
| arvut | I'm mostly a windows user myself, should really go recompile the kernel for my desktop gentoo install. just can't be bothered todo it :| | 01:49 |
| BCMM | gentoo user here, and it's very little work to rebuild the kernel once it's set up right | 01:52 |
| javispedro | seems that guys are being serious with ipv6 this time | 01:52 |
| BCMM | the gentoo manual favours a needlessly fiddly install method | 01:52 |
| javispedro | let's see if google can finally flip the switch to dual for once dammit. | 01:52 |
| strohhalm | Oo | 01:52 |
| BCMM | javispedro: well, they can't do anything else now | 01:52 |
| BCMM | the addresses are actually all gone... | 01:52 |
| javispedro | oh, they can. | 01:53 |
| javispedro | I am already starting to hear about hierarchical NAT... | 01:53 |
| BCMM | yeah, i suppose they can. i really do not want the carrier-grade NAT solution | 01:53 |
| BCMM | in the long run, that has to be more expensive | 01:53 |
| derf | There's only so many ports. | 01:53 |
| javispedro | it's not necessarily N-to-1 nat | 01:54 |
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| arvut | BCMM: problemm is, mne paniced, someone in #gentoo said it was due to lack of fs support, which would make sense | 01:55 |
| arvut | s/mne/mine/ | 01:55 |
| BCMM | "not syncing"? | 01:55 |
| infobot | arvut meant: BCMM: problemm is, mine paniced, someone in #gentoo said it was due to lack of fs support, which would make sense | 01:55 |
| arvut | delete that infobot! | 01:55 |
| javispedro | time to look at the sad state of home adsl routers again.. | 01:56 |
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| arvut | hmm, cant remember, I do have a nice gentoo-style grub with win7 as first choice tho | 01:56 |
| arvut | javispedro: what about them? shall they crash and burn? | 01:57 |
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| javispedro | they DO crash and burn. | 01:58 |
| arvut | javispedro: I've never had one. but sure, yes they do | 01:59 |
| arvut | btw, I love woodmann for its many great articles :) And thank you SpeedEvil for telling me about the known plaintext attack. now I got enough reading for the whole weekend :) | 02:00 |
| arvut | that.. sounded fairly odd | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The trend towards integrated routers/modems is scary. | 02:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have yet to see one that isn't useless garbage | 02:02 |
| lcuk | yet they are out there in their millions | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I've got one that I would like - if only it had source. (and a few more megs of RAM) | 02:03 |
| lcuk | so they must be "good enough" | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Linux, busybox, configurable. | 02:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no, people are just to under informed to know otherwise. | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd really love an opensource DSL stack. | 02:04 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, under informed to what? | 02:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | and Microsoft products have set their expectations of technology very low. | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | But I may be wierd. | 02:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, sorry, too jet lagged to play this weird game with you. | 02:04 |
| lcuk | and if you want to make a change, go to the isp with your notes/ideas/principles | 02:04 |
| * javispedro likes integrated router+modem | 02:05 | |
| javispedro | one reason: power. | 02:05 |
| javispedro | sadly, I do see they all suck. | 02:05 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, not game playing, just wondering what the problem with them is | 02:05 |
| lcuk | outside lab conditions they tend to work | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm actually going to an 'old linux box' for a router, from an integrated unit in a few days. | 02:05 |
| lcuk | people tsk and tut and just get replacement from isp if its tits up | 02:05 |
| lcuk | gives folks something to talk about | 02:05 |
| * javispedro would do that if it weren't for ... power, you guessed it! | 02:05 | |
| SpeedEvil | However, the old linux box is a laptop that uses ~6W - so it's comparable with the router. | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | And it can also run other stuff. | 02:05 |
| javispedro | laptop that uses ~6W? where? | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | It was cheaper than a pogoplug | 02:06 |
| lcuk | "argggg the modem * from $ISP screwed up my internet" * its a modem/router/coffee machine | 02:06 |
| javispedro | it's an atom? | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Thinkpad x60s | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Though I forget how I got 6.5W - it's about 9 now. | 02:06 |
| javispedro | that sounds more reasonable... and screen off and totally idle. | 02:06 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: it comes with an usb port these days so they plug their ipods on it and then complain it didn't give their ipods internet | 02:07 |
| javispedro | (I'm talkinga bout cheap-o ipods, not the iphone-like ones) | 02:08 |
| * arvut wonders in what way an ipod could be used to spread evil content =) | 02:13 | |
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| javispedro | hiding a bomb inside it? | 02:15 |
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| arvut | a bomb contains evil content? didn't know that :) | 02:38 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: ping | 02:40 |
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| timeless | http://www.dna.fi/en/dnagroup/contactinformation/Sivut/Default.aspx | 03:09 |
| timeless | grr | 03:09 |
| timeless | how the heck do i contact welho from abroad by email? | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Find finlands dialing code | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | oh there it is | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | international dialing prefix 35844144044 | 03:11 |
| arvut | what does (++) , (**) & (==) mean in the xorg log? | 03:15 |
| cehteh | defaults, from config etc .. dunno what order | 03:15 |
| arvut | are they some logical operators? | 03:15 |
| cehteh | its somewhere in the log explained by itself | 03:15 |
| cehteh | defaults, probed, from config .. | 03:16 |
| cehteh | Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, | 03:16 |
| cehteh | (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, | 03:16 |
| cehteh | (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. | 03:16 |
| cehteh | 10th line of the logfile .. | 03:16 |
| arvut | cchhheeeerrss | 03:16 |
| arvut | I made way-too-hot chocolate.. too much ginger and chilly | 03:17 |
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| arvut | I should have spiced it with weed instead | 03:20 |
| timeless | speedevil: i don't want to call them, that's expensive | 03:21 |
| timeless | i want to *email* them | 03:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | That would be too easy. | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm currently really pissed of at the government department I'm dealing with. | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Everything has to be in writing. | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course no email. And they take 5 days after they get mail to actually notice it's appeared. | 03:31 |
| SpeedEvil | And they lose stuff. | 03:31 |
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| arvut | governments suck | 03:35 |
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| Macer | is meego officially dead? | 04:42 |
| cehteh | does it matter if thats official or inofficial? | 04:43 |
| cehteh | and do you ask for meego in general or from elop/nokias point? | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia has a meego fork - that forked most of a year ago. | 04:44 |
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| Macer | cehteh: i just heard a rumor that meego was officially dead | 04:45 |
| cehteh | intel still works on it | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Intel and various other people are working actively on it. | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia is even contributing in some ways as I understand it, seperately to the harmattan effort. | 04:49 |
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| Macer | meh. maemo5 is the best heh | 05:00 |
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| yigal | so I'll bring back the same Qs I had this afternoon. Why are reasonable features threads, tags, and fullscreen no implemented in Modest? Is it because it's too difficult, in a reasonable way, or are people very lazy. I have to imagine the 1st but well? | 05:30 |
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| ShadowJK | claws does threads, but atleast on N810 it takes like 30 minutes and full swap usage to update my email :) | 05:32 |
| ShadowJK | I imagine it's pretty hard to make threads both low-memory, responsive (because if it responds slower than a web browser I can just use webmail) and not do just 100 posts at a time like modest :P | 05:33 |
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| cehteh | if only imap-idle would be enabled in modest | 05:43 |
| cehteh | pile of shit :P | 05:43 |
| mr_jrt | I'd settle for just being able to select which folders I want to subscribe to, and whcih I want notificatiosn for. Closely followed by changign the way sent mails are apparently handled (i.e. not stored on device, stored in configurabel location, etc.). One for the todo list methinks. | 05:48 |
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| yigal | sorry drunk and playing poker, but thanks for the discourse | 05:59 |
| yigal | I mean thanks for the attempt to answer the question, but I think threads, and tags shouldn't be a crazy memory problem nor fullscreen | 06:00 |
| yigal | I mean Mutt does that so? | 06:00 |
| yigal | I guess a desire to make it compatible with Outlook or something? | 06:01 |
| yigal | it's lame, makes me laugh at the idea of "this is a computer" not a phone, phh | 06:02 |
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| yigal | if it was a computer it would have been given a 4"+ screen and a decent email client | 06:03 |
| yigal | ok, stop Nokia bashing | 06:03 |
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| yigal | Nokia how bright you were when you brought out the n8x0 | 06:07 |
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| yigal | my bad | 06:16 |
| dangergrrl | nokia made my n900 and i love that | 06:18 |
| dangergrrl | but they bought into wp7 and i hate that | 06:18 |
| dangergrrl | how hard is it to port a python app to n900 if you know no python, just C, C++, lisps, used to know perl, lex/yacc, most any assembly, etc? | 06:20 |
| dangergrrl | i want to be able to use a pc at a public library to get individual kindle books from my amazon library and de drm it so i can read on n900 | 06:22 |
| dangergrrl | was thinking calibre might be nice on the n900 | 06:22 |
| dangergrrl | hi from a beer drinking biker woman in texas, yigal who's ipaddy is in l a | 06:24 |
| dangergrrl | :) | 06:24 |
| yigal | I'm so confused dangergrrl | 06:31 |
| yigal | you want to port a python app. when you don't know python | 06:32 |
| yigal | what type of app.? | 06:32 |
| dangergrrl | i know unix | 06:32 |
| yigal | I feel it | 06:32 |
| yigal | I do too :D | 06:32 |
| dangergrrl | ebook reader/toolkit | 06:32 |
| yigal | not sure | 06:32 |
| dangergrrl | learned unix when the internet was still arpanet | 06:33 |
| yigal | not sure how I should feel about it :D | 06:33 |
| yigal | I feel you would be dropping something like that | 06:33 |
| yigal | I learned *nix 7 years ago | 06:33 |
| yigal | but I loved it as soon as I was introduced | 06:34 |
| yigal | :D | 06:34 |
| yigal | grep sed chown sed it's d bomb | 06:34 |
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| dangergrrl | bash is sweet for interactive programming | 06:35 |
| yigal | zsh is my term, I can't understand why it wasn't adopted by more | 06:36 |
| dangergrrl | i ♥ gnu | 06:37 |
| dangergrrl | <3 for the unicode impaired | 06:37 |
| yigal | :D | 06:37 |
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| yigal | man I'm too drunk to make simple happy faces, this is great | 06:37 |
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| dangergrrl | actually on recent X11 ♥ is compose < 3 | 06:38 |
| yigal | hmm | 06:38 |
| yigal | X11 I switch between xmonad and compiz | 06:38 |
| dangergrrl | you have to turn on a compose key in xkb or keyboard prefs | 06:38 |
| yigal | both are sweet in their own way | 06:38 |
| dangergrrl | i use compiz | 06:39 |
| yigal | sweet | 06:39 |
| dangergrrl | not tried the other | 06:39 |
| yigal | it's very good at tyling | 06:39 |
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| yigal | tiling | 06:39 |
| dangergrrl | no gpu use? | 06:40 |
| yigal | very little | 06:40 |
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| dangergrrl | compiz makes my machine slower because it uses GPU memory and i am using a motherboard GPU with shared mem | 06:42 |
| yigal | me too intel 945 | 06:42 |
| yigal | but the bling is sometimes useful | 06:42 |
| yigal | the scale function, basically the task switcher, almost n900s without the ability to close apps through it, that's what I find most useful | 06:44 |
| dangergrrl | i use 32 bit ubuntu to run maemo sdk | 06:44 |
| dangergrrl | i put it on a face of the cube by itself | 06:44 |
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| dangergrrl | compize lets you face switch when you have full screen apps | 06:45 |
| yigal | yes, that's pretty good | 06:45 |
| yigal | dangergrrl: so compiz by itself that's what you use? | 06:46 |
| yigal | I think it's a good WM | 06:46 |
| dangergrrl | on sabayon which i think is gnome 2 | 06:46 |
| dangergrrl | by default | 06:46 |
| yigal | oh | 06:47 |
| dangergrrl | i like gentoo and have crappy hardware | 06:47 |
| dangergrrl | sabayon is binary gentoo | 06:47 |
| yigal | ya, I like archlinux | 06:47 |
| yigal | similar idea | 06:47 |
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| yigal | man I've done quite well in poker today | 06:51 |
| yigal | about $10 | 06:52 |
| dangergrrl | cool | 06:52 |
| yigal | I've made about $1000 over a year | 06:53 |
| yigal | should make myself big league go to Vegas :D | 06:53 |
| yigal | probably lose every penny in an hour | 06:54 |
| yigal | lol | 06:54 |
| dangergrrl | maybe you should start a software company | 06:55 |
| dangergrrl | bill gates quit harvard because he made too much playing poker | 06:55 |
| yigal | I have a degree in physics, hasn't helped me too much financially | 06:56 |
| yigal | a good socially responsible exceptionally reasonable software company I'd like that | 06:58 |
| yigal | perhaps 1 day I'll be lucky enough | 06:58 |
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| yigal | what about you dangergrrl what do you do to feed and clother yourself? | 07:06 |
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| dangergrrl | i collect a disability check | 07:07 |
| yigal | :) | 07:08 |
| yigal | I seriously don't think anyone should have to work in this day and age unless they want to | 07:08 |
| dangergrrl | it is a long story | 07:09 |
| dangergrrl | someone tried to murder me i got a head injury | 07:09 |
| yigal | dude that sucks hardcore | 07:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Some people really don't like open-source. | 07:13 |
| yigal | oh shit, lol | 07:13 |
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| dangergrrl | well, i get to ride my motorcycle around america and not work | 07:14 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 07:14 |
| dangergrrl | i was actually having a debate with someone over AGPL earlier | 07:14 |
| SpeedEvil | AGPL? | 07:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I know L and "" | 07:14 |
| dangergrrl | it't the new gnu public license for cloud apps | 07:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 07:15 |
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| dangergrrl | if you use the code on a public web werver you must offer source code | 07:15 |
| SpeedEvil | the 'distribution' clause is messy for that kind of stuff, yes. | 07:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - that's a seperate issue. | 07:16 |
| SpeedEvil | then | 07:16 |
| dangergrrl | well you aren't distributing the code so gpl does not apply to custom versions | 07:16 |
| dangergrrl | you can customize and never release under gpl | 07:17 |
| dangergrrl | but you are not the end user | 07:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I was assuming it was clarifying the uissue about when distribution occurs on rented computers, or customers computers that you install it on. | 07:18 |
| SpeedEvil | And stuff like that. | 07:19 |
| yigal | darn got 2nd on that poker match too drunk | 07:20 |
| dangergrrl | well my friend wrote the code for duuit.com | 07:23 |
| dangergrrl | which is a social networking site | 07:23 |
| dangergrrl | it is gpl2 | 07:24 |
| yigal | sounds good | 07:24 |
| dangergrrl | what if facebook decided his code was better than theirs | 07:24 |
| yigal | i h8t fbook | 07:24 |
| dangergrrl | and wrote whatever they have and he doesn't and based their website on it? | 07:24 |
| dangergrrl | and refused to share the code | 07:24 |
| dangergrrl | they didn't give the binary away | 07:25 |
| dangergrrl | so they do not have to share changes | 07:25 |
| yigal | I'm already angry at fbook | 07:25 |
| dangergrrl | well, check out duuit.com :) | 07:26 |
| dangergrrl | and you can join #duuit to talk to the dev | 07:27 |
| dangergrrl | sorry for shameless promotion of my friend | 07:27 |
| yigal | ty that's how good stuff should be spread, through word of mouth or at least through typing on irc | 07:27 |
| dangergrrl | if it asks for an invitation code i will get one | 07:30 |
| dangergrrl | i don't think it does but it says it is an invited trial | 07:30 |
| dangergrrl | we have an interesting music community | 07:31 |
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| yigal | sounds good I'm too drunk to do anything about it tonight but tomorrow I'll probably ask, if I need to | 07:31 |
| yigal | :) | 07:31 |
| dangergrrl | well i may be conscious | 07:32 |
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| dangergrrl | i bought the amount of alcohol i can handle and the store is far and i do not ride a motorcycle after drinking | 07:32 |
| yigal | good, no pressure :) | 07:32 |
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| dangergrrl | but i am usually here and the n900 would not be worth anything without DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG | 07:33 |
| yigal | nice | 07:33 |
| dangergrrl | sorry for dinging guys | 07:33 |
| dangergrrl | but they are awesome | 07:33 |
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| yigal | night awesome open source people | 07:37 |
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| dangergrrl | lol | 07:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So, Windows 8 on ARM. | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | How much do you think that's going to jumpstart the CPU race? | 08:17 |
| robbiethe1st | Unless it can run legacy apps through a VM, I don't think it really will | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that's always been the big issue. | 08:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, substituting crufty corporate environments where that's usually actually an issue. | 08:21 |
| robbiethe1st | Because it'll essentially be the same as Android: a mobile OS with apps designed for the platform.... and not compatible with x86 legacy and other "full" apps | 08:23 |
| dangergrrl | windows 8 is meh | 08:24 |
| dangergrrl | we can do better | 08:24 |
| dangergrrl | with no sweat | 08:24 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, I'd argue that if it was able to run old Windows programs "natively" via a seamless VM, it'd be worth it on tablets. But if not, no reason to pay the MS tax. | 08:34 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:55 |
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| arvut | morning | 10:03 |
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| MohammadAG | morning | 10:37 |
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| hiemanshu | Morning MohammadAG | 10:38 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/03/open_sourcing_skype/ | 11:17 |
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| Evanescence | so quient | 12:02 |
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| mr_jrt | Morning! | 12:46 |
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| crashanddie | Libra: "Romance is in the air, so plan something special with your partner. Single Librans - has your love life been going nowhere? Uranus is about to shake up your relationship zone so expect the unexpected!" | 12:55 |
| shark_eye | Hi alli am facing few problems with setting up for maemo sdk .can any1 help me with that ?? | 12:56 |
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| myuu | anyone use ff4 on n900? | 13:56 |
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| wam | yeah | 14:20 |
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| edheldil | is it possible to cancel the mass storage usb mode on n900 without pulling out the cable? | 15:04 |
| edheldil | (or reboot) | 15:04 |
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| robbiethe1st | Not that I know of | 15:07 |
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| nid0 | theres a shell script that should do it | 15:07 |
| nid0 | surely just replugging the cable's easier though | 15:08 |
| NIN101 | osso-usb-mass-storage-disable.sh | 15:09 |
| nid0 | yer, that one ^ | 15:09 |
| NIN101 | takes one argument | 15:09 |
| NIN101 | the partition which is on mass storage mode... | 15:09 |
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| edheldil | thanks | 15:15 |
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| AStorm | hello there, been a long time | 15:25 |
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| myuu | unmount? | 15:33 |
| myuu | hi | 15:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | old but funny: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/29/skype_explains_outage/ coremelt in the virtual world. You know skype is BAD(TM), didn't you? | 16:05 |
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| flux | didn't they have a more recent outage as well? did they explain that? | 16:10 |
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| divan | How to keep the backlight on in Qt? I've read about a few methods - using QSystemScreensaver or emiting some DBus signal every 30 seconds.. but what is most commonly used? | 16:16 |
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| khertan | Hello ! | 16:17 |
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| cehteh | divan: for the n900 certainly the dbus method .. i even wonder if its necessary to do that every 30 secs (tough prolly thats failsafe) | 16:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Otherwise the screen blanks | 16:29 |
| SpeedEvil | If the user does not touch | 16:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | divan: the "official" method is by sending 'keep alive' dbus mgs, yu should do this every 10s rather than every 30s, as users might have blanktimes <30s | 16:30 |
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| divan | thanks for replies | 16:31 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, is blanktime configurable? | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's however another inofficial method that changes blanktime setting to infinite, it's not an officially supported API | 16:31 |
| divan | the 'every N seconds' method looks more reliable | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | AFAIK simple brightness applet is using this inofficial method to keep screen "always on" | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wait a moment, I might find a link for you | 16:33 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, I know brightness applet. I'll take a look, thanks ) | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 16:35 |
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| * DocScrutinizer makes virtual post-it note to add the fsckdup aka missing backlight stay-on option to the long list why mce is bad and needs to go FOSS so such things could get fixed | 16:37 | |
| edheldil | Fuelpad's import feature is really bad :( | 16:39 |
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| * DocScrutinizer sighs and mumbles ``fsoraw -r display AppThatShouldntDimm'' | 16:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer | did I mention maemo is really not exactly top notch when it comes to a consistent comprehensive middleware layer | 16:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ofono... meh | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ofono guys really thought fso is "just a wrapper around the modem to do AT" - LOL | 16:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | take your NIH syndrome and feel happy with it! | 16:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | darn, meego could have been a really nice OS if only they adopted FSO | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo javispedro | 16:48 |
| javispedro | hello | 16:49 |
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| khertan | DocScrutinizer: i prefer nih syndrom than the nokia IHBLRIA | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf IHBLRIA | 16:50 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what IHBLRIA means... | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~IHBLRIA | 16:51 |
| khertan | "Invented Here, But Let's Reinvent It Anyway" | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~IHBLRIA is "Invented Here, But Let's Reinvent It Anyway" | 16:52 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~IHBLRIA is also a notion found at Nokia sometimes | 16:53 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay | 16:53 |
| * javispedro is starting to like python | 16:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | google fsoraw if you want to find a few nice pointers | 16:55 |
| javispedro | and me liking an interpreted language is a dangerous thing... | 16:55 |
| rm_work | <3 python | 16:55 |
| rm_work | though only the 2.x series | 16:56 |
| rm_work | 3.x can suck it | 16:56 |
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| hiemanshu | <3 python :D | 16:58 |
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| khertan | javispedro: it s too late ... you will not be able to do other language | 17:02 |
| khertan | rm_work: ? | 17:02 |
| khertan | rm_work: arguments ? | 17:02 |
| rm_work | arguments? | 17:02 |
| rm_work | oh, as to why python 3.x is annoying to use? | 17:03 |
| khertan | you said python 3 sucks ... ? i ask why ? | 17:03 |
| khertan | :) | 17:03 |
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| rm_work | well, in common use, one of the best things about python 2.x was how magically it did dynamic typing | 17:06 |
| rm_work | they've completely ruined that in python 3 | 17:06 |
| rm_work | even stupidly simple things like "print 1" throw a type error | 17:06 |
| rm_work | in what universe do I want to have to type "print str(1)"?! if i wanted to do that I wouldn't be using python | 17:07 |
| rm_work | this manifests itself in a myriad of places <_< | 17:07 |
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| rm_work | i guess python2 isn't technically weakly typed | 17:09 |
| rm_work | but it works in such a way that sometimes it seems like it is (which gave us the best of both worlds) | 17:10 |
| rm_work | just some really intelligent auto type conversion in specific places | 17:10 |
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| javispedro | technically it is weakly typed | 17:10 |
| javispedro | the fact that you are getting _runtime_ typeerrors kinda proves it. | 17:11 |
| rm_work | no | 17:11 |
| javispedro | no what? | 17:12 |
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| rm_work | no, it is not weakly typed, and no, getting runtime type errors does not prove it (i was talking about getting those in python3.x anyway, not 2.x) | 17:12 |
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| rm_work | http://wiki.python.org/moin/Why%20is%20Python%20a%20dynamic%20language%20and%20also%20a%20strongly%20typed%20language | 17:13 |
| nusse | is there a solution for this bug? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9353#c18 | 17:13 |
| povbot | Bug 9353: Writing large files to /home/user/MyDocs can take a very very long time | 17:13 |
| nusse | use the filemanager does not work when using scp | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | getting runtime errors proves exactly nuttin for an interpreted code ;-D | 17:14 |
| rm_work | ^^^ this | 17:14 |
| rm_work | there are no compile errors, EVERYTHING is runtime :P | 17:14 |
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| khertan | rm_work: yep it 's now print(1) | 17:16 |
| khertan | ... | 17:16 |
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| javispedro | rm_work: so, who the hell wrote that page? | 17:17 |
| khertan | rm_work: and there is no difference about compile error or not between 2.0 and 3 | 17:17 |
| javispedro | it says "why is python a strongly typed language" | 17:17 |
| rm_work | khertan: i never said there was | 17:17 |
| rm_work | javispedro: it's a FAQ | 17:17 |
| khertan | rm_work: ah sorry didn't understand :) | 17:17 |
| javispedro | then it proceeds to say "strong typed = statically typed + strongly typed" | 17:17 |
| rm_work | javispedro: it says that's common usage | 17:17 |
| javispedro | defining statically typed as "can tell which type a variable refers to, for example through type inference, without executing the program" | 17:18 |
| javispedro | but on python, noone can tell the type of variable without executing the program! | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | sound odd | 17:19 |
| rm_work | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_typing#Variation_across_programming_languages | 17:19 |
| javispedro | and if we keep to their definition of strong typing, | 17:19 |
| edheldil | rm_work: is not the problem that in P3, print is a function? | 17:19 |
| javispedro | then why I can use a real as an int? | 17:19 |
| rm_work | javispedro: see bullet 2 | 17:19 |
| javispedro | int as a real? | 17:20 |
| edheldil | i.e. use print(1) | 17:20 |
| javispedro | * | 17:20 |
| rm_work | edheldil: possibly :/ | 17:20 |
| rm_work | "The object-oriented programming languages Smalltalk, Ruby, Python, and Self are all "strongly typed" in the sense that typing errors are prevented at runtime and they do little implicit type conversion, but these languages make no use of static type checking: the compiler does not check or enforce type constraint rules. The term duck typing is now used to describe the dynamic typing paradigm used by the languages in this group." | 17:20 |
| javispedro | duck typing does not have anything to do with static or dynamic according to that same wikipedia page | 17:22 |
| javispedro | it says something about "if a bird walks like a duck and swims like aduck then it is a duck" | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | (strong types) see: everything is an object, so Ocomplex is an object, but not evry object is compatible to Ocomplex | 17:22 |
| javispedro | something you could check statically or dinamically, I couldn't care less. | 17:22 |
| edheldil | khertan: ah, sorry, you said it already | 17:22 |
| * DocScrutinizer wnders if a single person on this earth will get his point | 17:22 | |
| * javispedro would call that structural typing, but that's another story.. | 17:23 | |
| javispedro | (not DocScrutinizer's point, but the point about the duck) | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess what I want to say is: it's all about your paradigms | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | types don't have to be disjunct by definition | 17:25 |
| rm_work | http://diveintopython.org/getting_to_know_python/declaring_functions.html <--- 2.2.1 | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's about the paradigms of the particular language if >print( int 1)< is valid or not | 17:26 |
| rm_work | actually it is now | 17:26 |
| rm_work | i may have to revisit | 17:26 |
| rm_work | just tried it again in a newer release | 17:26 |
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| javispedro | rm_work: I get your point. But Python has automatic conversions. (int -> real) | 17:27 |
| javispedro | so it's not strong by that definition either. | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously low level lang - like assembler, forth, c(?) - have a strong typing. Higher level lang tend to handle types in a more nifty way | 17:29 |
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| javispedro | heh | 17:30 |
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| rm_work | hrm, looks like i can't say 3.x sucks anymore, have to limit that to 3.0. seems that 3.1 fixed a few of my main gripes | 17:31 |
| javispedro | heh | 17:31 |
| javispedro | I've been reading about it and I prefer the old print syntax | 17:32 |
| javispedro | specially to print to files. | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | (musing about forth - it's actually a smartass inetractive macro assembler operating on a virtual CPU) | 17:32 |
| rm_work | then again I really liked ML | 17:32 |
| rm_work | which has stupidly strong typing :P | 17:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (while c is even more smartass, not interactive, and generating code for arbitrary real machines ;-P ) | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | still I think of c to be the most complex assembler existing | 17:35 |
| javispedro | and portable :D | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mostly ;-) | 17:35 |
| khertan | rm_work: and 3.2 surely fix the rest | 17:38 |
| khertan | :) | 17:38 |
| javispedro | wtf, they removed reduce in python 3.0 | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | but my point about c is that you are on your way to failure when you ever forget about c's nature of being an assembler rather than a compiler | 17:39 |
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| khertan | Guido van Rossum comments on the elimination of map(), filter(), reduce() and lambda from Python 3000: | 17:39 |
| khertan | About 12 years ago, Python aquired lambda, reduce(), filter() and map(), courtesy of (I believe) a Lisp hacker who missed them and submitted working patches. But, despite of the PR value, I think these features should be cut from Python 3000. | 17:39 |
| javispedro | I see that he added any/all builtins | 17:40 |
| javispedro | kinda agree with that, ok. | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (way to failure) a common problem to coders learning on a high level languge though is that they forget they aren't operating in an entirely virtual abstract mathematical universe, and it takes TIME and RESOURCES to instatiate an object for each ascii character of the text in your editor | 17:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's why I think you should start learning programming with a nice assembler | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | rather than lisp | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | or C++ | 17:45 |
| * javispedro disagrees | 17:45 | |
| javispedro | because before programming, you need algorithms. | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 17:46 |
| javispedro | good luck doing any of them in asm before truly mastering asm itself. | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | though those are vastly overrated in their importance for everyday coding duty | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | algorithms to code a simple "throw the dice" proggy are like null | 17:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | given you can use /dev/random | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | algorithms of "game of life" are utterly simple | 17:48 |
| javispedro | and I'm thinking utterly simple stuff | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | even madelbrodt is not really heavy algo shuffling | 17:49 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: there are some very clever and nontrivial optimizations for game of life simulations | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course you shoud've finished your math classes | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: good luck for expressing these as algorithms X-D | 17:50 |
| cehteh | you looked at golly? | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope? | 17:50 |
| cehteh | install that and take a look (on desktop machine) | 17:51 |
| cehteh | i dont know how this algos work but they do exponential speed up | 17:51 |
| cehteh | so you can run billions of generations of really huge maps (infinite bound) in a few seconds/minutes | 17:52 |
| cehteh | very complex things | 17:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you could e.g. find macro pattern and how they evolve - if you find a recursion, you're done with optimizing this pattern :-) | 17:53 |
| cehteh | yes basically that | 17:54 |
| cehteh | but its an algorithm to find such patterns too | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | for instance a glider is very easy to process, once recognized to be one, as long as it doesn't collide | 17:55 |
| cehteh | and there are hillariously huge constructs in life done by its community | 17:55 |
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| cehteh | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Golly.png | 17:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer muses about exploiting gzip's dictionary building algos for g-o-l pattern detection | 17:56 | |
| cehteh | The 6,366,548,773,467,669,985,195,496,000th (6 octillionth) generation | 17:57 |
| cehteh | .. you'll never reach that with a linear simulator :) | 17:57 |
| cehteh | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashlife | 17:58 |
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| kerio | rm_work: wtf are you smoking | 18:05 |
| rm_work | ? | 18:05 |
| kerio | print <expr> is a syntax error in py3 | 18:05 |
| kerio | print is a function | 18:05 |
| rm_work | yeah sorry | 18:05 |
| rm_work | meant print(1) | 18:05 |
| kerio | it works | 18:06 |
| rm_work | but it did used to throw a type error | 18:06 |
| rm_work | it works now | 18:06 |
| kerio | why wouldn't it | 18:06 |
| rm_work | in 3.1 | 18:06 |
| rm_work | that was my point :P | 18:06 |
| kerio | you're lying, but ok | 18:06 |
| rm_work | when python 3.0 first came out it would say you had to explicitly convert it to a string | 18:06 |
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| rm_work | so i promptly uninstalled it | 18:07 |
| AStorm | and that was so bad, yes? | 18:07 |
| kerio | print_function in py2.6 doesn't do that | 18:07 |
| AStorm | I mean, print(str(...)) too hard? | 18:07 |
| AStorm | thattoo | 18:07 |
| kerio | so i really doubt you're telling the truth | 18:07 |
| rm_work | it's the simplest form of illustration | 18:07 |
| kerio | AStorm: not the point here | 18:07 |
| AStorm | original print doesn't convert to string | 18:07 |
| rm_work | no one would ever actually type print(1) in their program anyway | 18:08 |
| AStorm | the one in 2.7.x | 18:08 |
| kerio | AStorm: original print... does | 18:08 |
| kerio | it calls str() on its arguments | 18:08 |
| AStorm | hmmph | 18:08 |
| AStorm | I'll check to be extrasure | 18:08 |
| kerio | and it would be hard | 18:08 |
| AStorm | yes, it does | 18:08 |
| kerio | because print takes arbitrary objects, coercing them to strings | 18:08 |
| AStorm | this or calling str() | 18:09 |
| kerio | cehteh: hashlife is incredible | 18:09 |
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| kerio | anyway, rm_work, py3k is a much, much better language than python 2 | 18:09 |
| kerio | sadly, it's still not exactly usable because no twisted and no numpy | 18:10 |
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| rm_work | also no django :/ which i use quite a bit | 18:14 |
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| javispedro | oh, that abill_uk's poll thread is now even funnier. | 19:00 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Sufficiently funny for me to open TMO? | 19:15 |
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| javispedro | since when you last looked at it? | 19:15 |
| javispedro | if it's around three or four days, well, as a spoiler, they for a few pages tried to find licensing "errors" on nokia's part to sue the source code out of them. | 19:16 |
| javispedro | my grammar is sadly becoming funnier every day. | 19:17 |
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| style | Has anyone been able to connect canon camera to n900 (usb hostmode) | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IDIOTS, IDIOTS AND MORONS | 19:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/since when/how long since/ ? | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | and no, I'm not going to look at tmo again for that freakin thread | 19:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I for a purpose didn't answer when that guy suggested to me "how about checking for GPL violations instead?" | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | insane | 19:48 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: javispedro: Good grief, they're nots. | 19:48 |
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| Jaffa | s/nots/nuts/ | 19:49 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: DocScrutinizer: javispedro: Good grief, they're nuts. | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/spontaneousArt_madBatShit_20110602_001.mp4 one-time-wonder N900 gfx core going psycho. Alas no clue how to reproduce ;-P | 19:50 |
| javispedro | 250 MiB file?? | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | yo :-/ | 19:50 |
| javispedro | huh | 19:50 |
| javispedro | what is in there, the new harry potter movie? =) | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | no video editing on N900, see? | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, harry potter might be involved, having cursed the N900 ;-) | 19:51 |
| javispedro | I've seen many weird things with the sgx. | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | not a funny friggin nice one like this though, I guess | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I honestly thought for a short while that has to be some gfx art producing prog somebody smuggled onto my N900 | 19:52 |
| javispedro | abill_uk did that via his mastery of telekinesis and televectordrawing. | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I simply unlocked a pretty normal maemo hildon screen, and that's been what I got | 19:53 |
| javispedro | is it SFW? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'm afraid that's true :-D | 19:53 |
| javispedro | oh | 19:54 |
| javispedro | :( | 19:54 |
| javispedro | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11794 | 19:54 |
| povbot | Bug 11794: Open Fremantle's MCE | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 19:54 |
| javispedro | qgil: "There are no plans to open the Fremantle version." | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you honestly expected *anything* else? | 19:54 |
| javispedro | on the bright side, this only took half a year! | 19:55 |
| javispedro | ;P | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia's seriously going "F*CK YOU maemo" | 19:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe we could convince somebody@nokia to provide the unstripped binaries of quite some blobs ? | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | can't be a big thing in any respect | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | except codesize :-P | 19:57 |
| javispedro | the fremantle codebase is probably already lost | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet there's no official policy about "you must not publish unstripped binaries" or even "lawyers have to check binaries with symbols prior to disclosure/publishing" | 19:59 |
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| javispedro | nokia has provided unstripped binaries in the past | 19:59 |
| javispedro | hm | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 19:59 |
| javispedro | can't really remember an example... | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | some bored devel can do now :-) | 20:00 |
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| javispedro | oh | 20:05 |
| javispedro | the stuff in the video does not seem sgx | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell me what you think it is :-) | 20:06 |
| javispedro | dunno, unless you have a video with static and music? ;P | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | definitely not | 20:06 |
| javispedro | it is clearly a message from god. | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | funny part is I never before heard that music either, but it might be somewhere in the 10GB of MP3 hanging around there | 20:07 |
| javispedro | it is sgx after all | 20:07 |
| javispedro | weird thing is that I don't know why there was static on video... video should be overlayed.. | 20:08 |
| javispedro | aah, it is not a video, it's always normal ui | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | some of the static is from recording, not actually from the recorded DUT | 20:08 |
| javispedro | I see | 20:09 |
| javispedro | so then it is definitely sgx. | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | (I added that for the proper blairwitch effect :-P ) | 20:09 |
| javispedro | and this happened after a fresh boot, or with a long uptime? | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably rather fresh boot | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | like sitting idle after boot for some hours | 20:10 |
| javispedro | then I bet this is caused by what I was talking about the other day, the 1 in a 60 chance of weird sgx boot | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's my devel device which doesn't run much more than a sshd usually | 20:11 |
| javispedro | so prolly there's a 1 in a billion chance of really weird sgx boot. | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 20:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders moving the video to YT for easy watching | 20:12 | |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if it's worth the effort | 20:12 |
| javispedro | it can't hurt | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | k, so teach me about upping to YT, please :-) never did it | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | heard I'd need to convert to flash, can't do that | 20:13 |
| javispedro | you probably don't, yours was xvid | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | mp4 aka H263? sth | 20:14 |
| javispedro | mpeg4 asf | 20:14 |
| javispedro | (not h263 iirc) | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh YT has some size limitations as well AFAIK | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ping | 20:15 |
| javispedro | s/ASF/ASP | 20:15 |
| * RST38h moos at javispedro and the Doc | 20:15 | |
| * DocScrutinizer remoos | 20:16 | |
| javispedro | HELO RST38h | 20:16 |
| RST38h | Internet Explorer Use Slips Below 55% | 20:16 |
| RST38h | Hehe | 20:16 |
| javispedro | sadly, slashdot is returning 503 here =) | 20:16 |
| RST38h | javispedro: You really want to watch dull people gloating? | 20:18 |
| javispedro | no, but I want to read about that "bomb making info replaced with cupcake recipe by mi6" headline | 20:19 |
| RST38h | javispedro: see it on theregister | 20:19 |
| RST38h | But it is basically what it says | 20:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can we just fast-forward to the 21st already? | 20:20 |
| javispedro | to see another capacitive screen device? | 20:21 |
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| * RST38h does not understand why people are getting all upset about capacitive/resistive thing | 20:23 | |
| GeneralAntilles | To see anything at all. | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sort of "Meh" about the whole issue at this point. | 20:23 |
| style | http://paste.servut.us/plain/l165 any ideas why I'm unable to mount any of those devices? | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it's not ideal. But I want something to be excited about. | 20:23 |
| style | there is 4 /dev/usbdev1.58ep{00,02,81,83} | 20:24 |
| javispedro | style: that does not look like a mass storage. you should try and use that camera on a normal gnu/Linux desktop first. | 20:24 |
| * javispedro still wants a stylus | 20:24 | |
| style | hmmm, one of those devices should be my memory card tough.. | 20:24 |
| RST38h | General: A 4.8" slim Acer Iconia Smart device? =) | 20:24 |
| javispedro | RST38h: you kinda love 5'' devices, eh? | 20:25 |
| style | normal linux desktop shows onl: [16952700.044057] usb 1-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 4 | 20:26 |
| style | [16952700.179804] usb 1-5: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice | 20:26 |
| javispedro | style: pastebin | 20:26 |
| style | javispedro: it was just 2 lines :/ | 20:26 |
| javispedro | ah. | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | style: Are you sure you can in fact mount it at all? | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | style: Anyway. Google. | 20:26 |
| style | SpeedEvil: atm, no. I've tried to google and I didn't found anything :/ | 20:27 |
| style | well maybe the easiest way is to buy memory card reader | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | style: Search for 04a9 3224 camera kernel driver | 20:27 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: I have poor sight and like reading from them | 20:28 |
| style | SpeedEvil: propably hard to find because that camera model is like 1 month old | 20:28 |
| RST38h | javispedro: So, yes, 5" would be ideal | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 20:29 |
| RST38h | Can even sacrifice the keyboard, given that it will make the whole device unpocketable | 20:29 |
| SpeedEvil | style: what's the camera? | 20:29 |
| style | canon powershot a3200 IS | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd look for projects reading canon powershot cameras. | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Look for earlier models | 20:30 |
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| danger94833 | is overclocking with a backup an awful idea? (800mhz) | 20:32 |
| RST38h | overclocking is a bad idea in general | 20:32 |
| danger94833 | old , out of warranty. etc | 20:32 |
| SpeedEvil | style: http://www.gphoto.org/ | 20:32 |
| RST38h | although your NAND flash may die before your CPU does... | 20:32 |
| danger94833 | i overclcok my desktop, but i do realize x86 is different | 20:32 |
| SpeedEvil | style: Lists tha A2100 IS | 20:33 |
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| danger94833 | Also i dont use it 24/7, so thinking it wont be at high cpu clock so much, not going to mess with voltages. | 20:34 |
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| javispedro | larger screen = more feeling I need a stylus :( | 20:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 20:38 |
| infobot | well, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 20:38 |
| RST38h | javispedro: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=&q=capacitive+stylus&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1227911920744035289&sa=X&ei=LBzpTeiaHo3Jsga9x_XnCg&ved=0CCoQ8wIwAg | 20:39 |
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| RST38h | Also here: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acapacitive%20stylus&page=1 (yes, I know, they look like sausages) | 20:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h: note: the capacitive stylus ois on the opposite side to the ball point pen part. | 20:40 |
| javispedro | RST38h: they basically suck. I already have a natural sausage implanted on my body (called finger) if I really wanted to use a sausage for some reason. | 20:40 |
| RST38h | there are some relatively thin ones though | 20:41 |
| javispedro | but ofc what I want is a ... stylus. sharp pointed stylus. | 20:41 |
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| javispedro | more thin => less sensitive on capacitive | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | how about getting the ipen (or whatever it is called) and using it as a stylus? | 20:42 |
| danger94833 | hey all, running smartreflux doesnt seem to cause anything UI/crasing problems.. should i continue running it? | 20:42 |
| javispedro | RST38h: what is the ipen? | 20:42 |
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| javispedro | ah, optical stuff | 20:43 |
| RST38h | a pen with some optics and a bt interface | 20:43 |
| RST38h | kinda like mini optical mouse | 20:43 |
| javispedro | that might be a sellable idea. | 20:43 |
| javispedro | but you might need certain resolution on the screen. | 20:44 |
| RST38h | http://www.livescribe.com/en-us/smartpen/ | 20:44 |
| RST38h | you do not use it on the screen, you use it on paper :) | 20:44 |
| RST38h | or a desktop, or anthing | 20:44 |
| javispedro | =) | 20:44 |
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| danger94833 | doesnt the livescribe require special paper? | 20:46 |
| RST38h | yep | 20:46 |
| danger94833 | i would of bought it if it didnt require special paper | 20:47 |
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| javispedro | you can print the paper | 20:48 |
| danger94833 | really? | 20:48 |
| javispedro | it's just a grid. | 20:48 |
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| danger94833 | so i buy it, print out say 100 sheets , put it in a binder... write on it with the pen, it "saves" , and then sends to like evernote? | 20:49 |
| javispedro | yes | 20:49 |
| danger94833 | how long is the battery life? | 20:49 |
| javispedro | I was really considering once long ago -- until I saw the price. | 20:49 |
| javispedro | *considering one | 20:50 |
| danger94833 | $99? | 20:50 |
| javispedro | way more | 20:50 |
| javispedro | oh. | 20:50 |
| danger94833 | oh | 20:50 |
| danger94833 | back then | 20:50 |
| danger94833 | is it just black and white printing? | 20:50 |
| danger94833 | i honestly want to buy one now | 20:50 |
| javispedro | danger94833: they list on their website printers that are compatible, search for them if you plan to buy one. | 20:51 |
| danger94833 | have to be special printer? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | good printers will do I guess | 20:51 |
| danger94833 | i was gonna goto one of those printing stores , get it mass photocopied | 20:51 |
| javispedro | needs some resolution. | 20:52 |
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| javispedro | "back then" the list was long already. | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | the grid is "morse code" | 20:52 |
| javispedro | so I'd bet any recent printer will make it these days. | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 20:52 |
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| danger94833 | you will need a Color LaserJet Printer that is Adobe PostScript compatible and can print at 600dpi or higher. | 20:57 |
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| javispedro | if this wasn't complete vaporware: http://www.noteslate.com/ | 21:06 |
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| danger94833 | heh | 21:08 |
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| danger94833 | javispedro: im gonna buy the livescribe next week | 21:08 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: That thread is teh lolz | 21:09 |
| javispedro | toldya :) | 21:10 |
| danger94833 | bought a 50Wh portable battery pack :) | 21:10 |
| lcukn900 | i thought that read 50kWh and wondered whether it came 2ith a wheelbarrow | 21:11 |
| danger94833 | lcukn900: :) | 21:12 |
| lcukn900 | javis which thread? | 21:12 |
| javispedro | lcukn900: seems that noteslate guys updated website but no shipping and no new shipping date | 21:12 |
| danger94833 | i figure the n900 .. 1320*3.7V = 4.88Wh .. so id get about 10 charges worth. | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dict wheelbarrow | 21:13 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'wheelbarrow' (2): a cart for carrying small loads; has handles and one or more wheels ;; \Wheel"bar`row\, n. A light vehicle for conveying small loads. It has two handles and one wheel, and is rolled by a single person. [1913 Webster]. | 21:13 |
| javispedro | lcukn900: the abill_uk Nokia release source thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73419 | 21:13 |
| lcukn900 | javis i still wonder if the os will match. i know some softwre that will suit it though | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | danger94833: writing on the bat says 4.9, so yes | 21:13 |
| danger94833 | omg it displays | 21:14 |
| danger94833 | i had to use a calculator | 21:14 |
| danger94833 | (wasnt aware of the equation) | 21:14 |
| javispedro | lcukn900: more worried whether they'll ship at all. | 21:14 |
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| lcukn900 | javis find out if the hardware exists and with some help will try and put real handwritten UX on it | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | though due to efficiency loss you'll not get 10 charges out of 50Wh | 21:16 |
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| danger94833 | 8-9? :p | 21:18 |
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| * DocScrutinizer idly wonders about the kill-factor of harmattan HE to fremantle, and silently hopes for it to never ship | 21:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | danger94833: 8 sounds reasonable | 21:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ETA for N900_goes_psycho on YT: 133min | 21:21 |
| danger94833 | thats insane :) should never run out of battery :P | 21:22 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Based on previous HE's; Harmattan HE won't be what kills Fremantle. | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: It'll be all the people with clue getting Harmattan devices and not working on N900s anymore that'll kill Fremantle. | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | Especially if the dev device/consumer device split is real - and devs can get the devices with a keyboard. | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's exactly what I referred to | 21:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | couldn't think of any better way to kill maemo for good | 21:27 |
| lcukn900 | if the qt apps are strong maemo as an upstream ux/app provider to meego/harmattan is still practical | 21:28 |
| Jaffa | I thought the "HE" stood for "Hacker Edition". i.e. the backport we got of OS2007 etc. | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | and honestly - harmattan "meego"??? c'mon what's that? is it compatible to *anything* ? does it have any future whatsoever? | 21:28 |
| javispedro | it is compatible to maemo. | 21:29 |
| javispedro | as long as you limit yourself to non-gui apps ;) | 21:29 |
| Jaffa | lcukn900: I'm not entirely convinced of the niceness of maintaining Fremantle/Harmattan/MeeGo/Symbian apps. Having tried it for something as simple as Attitude. | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 21:29 |
| ShadowJK | MeeGo compatibility, where MeeGo == QT, I think :-) | 21:29 |
| lcukn900 | jaffa you did not try to maintain it, you rewrote it | 21:30 |
| lcukn900 | big difference. | 21:30 |
| lcukn900 | look at venemo, he has 1 codebase for qt, one app, available on everything from n8x0 n900 maemo meego ubuntu windows and probably a few i forgot | 21:31 |
| lcukn900 | qt *CAN* do crossplatform relatively easily | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | to me all fits nicely into Elop's masterplan to keep Nokia down | 21:31 |
| javispedro | lcukn900: he uses Qml? | 21:31 |
| lcukn900 | but if you decide to rewrite it is more troublesome | 21:31 |
| lcukn900 | your attitude had you used native qt woud be happy | 21:32 |
| lcukn900 | javis idk he uses qt | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | really a Machiavellian genius, this Elop | 21:32 |
| javispedro | prolly QWidgets | 21:32 |
| javispedro | btw | 21:32 |
| lcukn900 | shopper from lbt should be similar | 21:32 |
| javispedro | Windows 8 new default API for the "tablet mode" apps is ... HTML+Javascript | 21:32 |
| javispedro | not dot net, not silverlight. | 21:33 |
| * ShadowJK has doubts about this QML thing though, python is already memory and CPU hungry.. How much heavier is QT and QML? | 21:33 | |
| lcukn900 | but using python and bindings and changing direction partway through is what yours went wrong jaffa, you are spending more time now remaking it than just tweaking your simple lowest common denominator base code | 21:33 |
| lcukn900 | plus it would have been marginally faster :p | 21:34 |
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| lcukn900 | python bindings prevented attitude from running everywhere qt ran before as well, attitude on windows would be trivial | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | a pity to see Nokia shooting their own foot, then recharging and shooting the other, then asking "who's gonna help us to shoot some other peripherals, or shoot at head if you like that better" | 21:36 |
| lcukn900 | there are other issues for sure with the direction i took, but my code runs happily on the devices i targeted and still today is happy compiling and running on n8x0 up and on meego machines | 21:37 |
| javispedro | lcukn900: right until they switch to wayland! ;) | 21:37 |
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| lcukn900 | javis i have minimal x11 depenendencies and could talk easily on wayland when required | 21:38 |
| danger94833 | lcukn900: liqbase? | 21:38 |
| lcukn900 | remember i just used minimal footprint | 21:38 |
| lcukn900 | yeah | 21:39 |
| danger94833 | still code it? | 21:39 |
| lcukn900 | infact it will probably work better on wayland | 21:39 |
| javispedro | I know, but your app is basically an operating system =) | 21:39 |
| lcukn900 | i tinker and polish | 21:39 |
| danger94833 | when is this switch to wayland happening? | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | *burrp* | 21:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer hpes never | 21:39 | |
| lcukn900 | javis not really that is just the playground | 21:39 |
| javispedro | lcukn900: prolly not, if you use xv... x11 already does little for you. | 21:39 |
| lcukn900 | the apps all build and run as standalone | 21:40 |
| danger94833 | been quite out of the loop, last i heard it was still much in coding, and saw it in this linux magazine at work the other day | 21:40 |
| lcukn900 | javis that is my point | 21:40 |
| lcukn900 | i do not have dependencies on x11 itself really | 21:40 |
| lcukn900 | cool | 21:40 |
| lcukn900 | which mag? can you scan a copy? | 21:41 |
| danger94833 | isnt wayland very fast? | 21:41 |
| javispedro | what wayland is is very overrated. | 21:41 |
| lcukn900 | from what i hear. yes | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | wayland is as fast as X11 been before they added to X11 what makes it better than wayland | 21:41 |
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| lcukn900 | faster pathway than x11 certainly | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | once wayland is on par with X11 feature wise, it will be as bloated and slow as X11 is now | 21:43 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: but I bet they don't want to make it on par with X11. | 21:43 |
| lcuk | wayland does not aim to be feature for feature compatible | 21:43 |
| RST38h | Wayland is Havoc Pennington's wet dream of killing X11 coming true =) | 21:43 |
| RST38h | Doc: It will not be | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could as well strip down X11 and call it X11_lite--kicks-waylands-arse | 21:44 |
| RST38h | Doc: They are limiting themselves to composition only | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but I guess some L.P. alike character needs a NIH playground, so they called it wayland | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~nih | 21:46 |
| infobot | i heard nih is \"Not Invented Here\" - a syndrome often suffered by developers and companies who tend to reinvent the wheel for no reason other than being able to put their name on it. | 21:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooops, no reply? I'm "acting erratically" once more? | 21:50 |
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| javispedro | it's just that ranting on wayland is boring when there are no wayland fans around ;) | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 21:52 |
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| * merlin1991 wonders why X doesn't do what opengl did | 21:54 | |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, pong | 21:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nm, liked to ask you about YT, but I managed to handle that - even without getting allergic shock | 21:55 |
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| MohammadAG | YouTube? | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 21:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually with my age old google account still around, it was easy | 21:56 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I'm talking about the QML port of Attitude. | 21:56 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: This is an app with no widgets, remember. But having a single codebase which works on MeeGo/Maemo/Harmattan/Symbian is already tricky. | 21:57 |
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| MohammadAG | What's Attitude? | 22:00 |
| * javispedro hits MohammadAG | 22:01 | |
| MohammadAG | Ow! | 22:01 |
| MohammadAG | Graduating tomorrow :D | 22:01 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: on what? | 22:01 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, high school | 22:02 |
| javispedro | ah | 22:02 |
| javispedro | good job :) | 22:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | good luck, MohammadAG | 22:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hope to find you working for your CS bachelor soon, smashing maemo/meego to pieces and rebuilding it to sth better ;-) | 22:05 |
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| MohammadAG | Thanks DocScrutinizer :D | 22:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but wait, there's probably no making a living in that, so better find sth *real* for your future | 22:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as my colleague used to say: "there are so many nice professions: Butcher, baker, bricklayer - just me moron had to insist in messing with computers" | 22:10 |
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| javispedro | why does everyone tell everyone else their career sucks? | 22:11 |
| jacekowski | you know what, friend electrician told me that sometimes on a good day he can do as much as i do in a week | 22:11 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: but but .. it's fun? | 22:11 |
| jacekowski | but he is self employed | 22:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: at least that friend of mine reasoned about his own career | 22:12 |
| javispedro | oops | 22:12 |
| javispedro | s/their career sucks/his own career sucks/ | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | sometimes I feel like him | 22:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and yeah, you inevitably face those moments when dealing ith entities like Siemens | 22:14 |
| javispedro | either way, enough with career talk, it's depressing. let's continue bashing wayland. | 22:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | who tell you "meh, CIM isn't anything more than moving around some data records, so please do it in COBOL, as we (the clerks) know to read that" | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> as my colleague used to say: "there are so many nice professions: Butcher, baker, bricklayer - just me moron had to insist in messing with computers" | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG | what's wrong with CS/CE/EE? | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | see above :-) | 22:16 |
| javispedro | nothing wrong with cobol.. | 22:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | coding a CIM for a 100 engines 700 workers fab, with automated transport systems and all, in *COBOL*... | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're sometimes starting to wonder... "baker maybe?" | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: yeah, and the 30% assembler we needed to interface all the machines were mere fun | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | but admittedly doing the aggregating over the production records to give statistics was a charm in COBOL | 22:19 |
| * danger94833 wonders how many more years in IT he needs before he understands what was just said :) | 22:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer | and I had a nice task to develop a data dictionary tool to unify datatypes across the whole project, for the include files to COBOL | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | called COPY elements | 22:22 |
| jacekowski | CIM? | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas on cobol copy elements can't include copy elements, so you got a problem there | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | automating a fab | 22:22 |
| jacekowski | well, biggest problem is having whole thing described and understand the process | 22:23 |
| * danger94833 believes 10 years. | 22:23 | |
| jacekowski | coding it later on is easy part | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | is knowing what to code is hard | 22:23 |
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| jacekowski | and sometimes people think that it's simple when it isn't | 22:24 |
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| jacekowski | like when i was doing fuel transfer system for some site that runs on red diesel and cooking oil | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | where you have like 12 different valves + output breaker states | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | + what is generator supposed to be doing | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, lucky you having cobol | 22:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: it's simple to say "we are using YYYYMMDDHHMMSSss for *all* timestamps and durations in our project", but it is kinda difficult to make that happen in a correct way, when you are using COBOL to implement your program | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | it took like 3h to draw how whole thing is supposed to operate | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | because it should never generate on red diesel | 22:27 |
| ShadowJK | stuff here is all in Ladder. I had never heard of it before. It was like discovering a bunch of stoneage people bashing rocks together. Good thing I dont have to touch that shit :-) | 22:27 |
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| jacekowski | ShadowJK: ladder logic is nice thing | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: as long as it's not some limited implementation | 22:27 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, touchscreen guis? | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: done that | 22:28 |
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| jacekowski | ShadowJK: i've done B&R screens that were meant to be programmed in C from beggining | 22:28 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: but later on to make some people happy they added ladder logic | 22:28 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: very poorly implemented | 22:28 |
| jacekowski | there are some screens that you can see that were designed for ladder logic from begginging | 22:29 |
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| jacekowski | and it's completly different thing | 22:29 |
| jacekowski | because then it looks bit more like designing ICs | 22:30 |
| jacekowski | not exactly like that | 22:30 |
| jacekowski | but you get some functional blocks | 22:30 |
| jacekowski | gates | 22:30 |
| jacekowski | math functions | 22:30 |
| jacekowski | logic functions | 22:30 |
| jacekowski | and you get some sad implementations that can do nothing | 22:31 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, does it work on your n900? | 22:32 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: but ladder logic is meant mostly for EEs | 22:33 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: as it's supposed to look like physical relays | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | *BURP* | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shudder: | 22:34 |
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| jacekowski | ShadowJK: but thing is, good EE will not have big problem learning normal programming language | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I know similar crap under the name of STEPS5/7 | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | done that | 22:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | disgusting stuff | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | again, simatics were never meant for ladder logic | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | like playing with LEGO and always missing the stone with 7 nipples | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | we had to do a lot of interfacing to simatic SPS5 back when we coded that COBOL CIM | 22:37 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, lego bricks generall have an even number of nobbles | 22:37 |
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| lcuk | and they were never described as nipples | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | those guys always were terribly nervous and depressed | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: excuse my French :-) | 22:39 |
| ShadowJK | it's actually Simatics at work.. | 22:39 |
| jacekowski | but siemens is german | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | so you can't expect too much | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | i really like hitachi PLCs | 22:40 |
| dm8tbr | no it's siemens, that's worse than german | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | and yokogawa | 22:40 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 22:41 |
| ShadowJK | also some amount of actual crankshaft+notches+switches+relays :) | 22:42 |
| ShadowJK | Sometimes forming part of plc program... | 22:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lag: 27s | 22:43 |
| * ShadowJK yawns | 22:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I hate javascript based file uploaders - no way to manage bandwidth | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK | When's N950 coming out, will we get keyboard or not :( | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and while I got a downstream of like 1Mb actually idling, I am waiting for webpages to open until connections time out | 22:44 |
| javispedro | never and no | 22:44 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | jivisperdo??? | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ragequit? | 22:45 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I used to use iptables to rate limit uploads and downloads | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: actually a bit tricky when your uploader is a javascript crap in a youtube webpage | 22:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I mean - how would I prioritize other web pages over that one? | 22:47 |
| nox- | youd prioritize acks | 22:48 |
| nox- | and maybe limit upload bw | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmmm | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply write a job that sigstop's that process every other second ;-D | 22:49 |
| nox- | haha | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lag: 7s | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | i've no problems with it eating up 100% of one of my 2 cores, but the congestion of upstream is a PITA | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | 77% ETA 44min | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Err | 22:51 |
| nox- | anything interesting you're putting on youtube? :) | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall thatyou can do that with net filtering | 22:52 |
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| nox- | yeah as i said | 22:52 |
| nox- | ack prio | 22:52 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you prioritise traffic with smaller queue | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | the N900_going_psycho movie I took last night | 22:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK: I think we may be getting both. | 22:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Supposedly the one sans keyboard has better specs for some reason, though. :\ | 22:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Or you rate limit all outgoing http to x | 22:52 |
| jacekowski | not universal enough | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Smaller queue doesnt' always help | 22:53 |
| nox- | what did you do to the poor device doc? :) | 22:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer starts feeling sick when pondering GAN900 news | 22:53 | |
| GAN900 | Nokia iz dum | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | If you have a transfer to a low RTT hose, and one to a far RTT host, the far RTT will starve - even if you proritise on queue lengths. | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: MEEE? I did nothing - is what Bart Simpson said | 22:54 |
| nox- | :) | 22:54 |
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| * DocScrutinizer curses on not finding a EU standard sized plastic straw for his new charger hack | 22:57 | |
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| ruskie | eu standard sized??? | 22:58 |
| ruskie | that exist? | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | another field McD ruined ;-) | 22:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: I'm just calling the old-school straws like that | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | those with ~2.5mm diameter | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | you hardly find them anywhere nowadays | 22:59 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah, rate linit http to ip x where x is the destination for your big uoload | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's easy but needs realtime config | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | as I got nfc about x | 23:01 |
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| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, ah the usual Nokia piss-off-users, uh, I mean "segmentation"? :) | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I *might* do this if YT upload server has same IP all the time and I'd do that stuff frequently | 23:02 |
| GAN900 | Product timing, I guess. | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, yeah obviously only worth it for multihour uploads where you manually check netstat to find the connection and manually create iptables rules to ratelimit | 23:02 |
| rm_work | GAN900: what's up? some news? | 23:03 |
| GAN900 | rm_work, nothing exciting. | 23:03 |
| rm_work | k | 23:03 |
| * rm_work goes back to his corner | 23:03 | |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders a nice shower | 23:04 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: BSP! Nokia, gimme BSP and take your OS and eat it | 23:05 |
| * ShadowJK hopes for wifi roaming | 23:06 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | linux community never been in need of manufacturers to deliver their crap with working OS | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas that'S a bit of FOSS Nokia never got the catch of | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even with meego where they really had the chance to go for BSP_only policy | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | instead of a decent BSP they now come up with this "meego" harmattan HE abomination | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | another missed opportunity to do the *right* thing and *not* shoot your own foot | 23:10 |
| * DocScrutinizer really wonders what makes Nokia think they got the know how to build a decent OS, from "scratch" | 23:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer | even more, what makes them think anybody really wants them to do that | 23:11 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, technically it is possible | 23:12 |
| lcuk | because didn't one single Finn choose to do exactly that about 30 years ago | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 23:13 |
| ruskie | 30 years ago? | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I guess nowadays the drivers coming from BSPs and those created by community by RE are 50/50 | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly, Nokia missed a opportunity when they dropped (or never even thought of) shipping their devices with $random_proprietary_OS (sybian / wincrap) *plus* a decent linux BSP, maybe including a barebones FOSS dialer implementation | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | why ICD2 ? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | why location_lib? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | why blobs for calendar and dialer and whatnot? | 23:21 |
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| ShadowJK | icd at the time was probably sensible because nm wasn't working and the nm authors were outright hostile to patches | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | all just cruft born from the idea they need to ship their hw with a shiny working full fledged linux OS. Drop that idea, ship with WinP7 plus a linux BSP | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | give support to linux community when they run into problems on porting their stuff to Nokia hw. everybody happy, and for sure we'd be way further with that concept being followed back on rise of N900 than we are now with fremantle just another 50% blobs release | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | and next OS from Nokia quite likely is the same again | 23:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | where "next OS" == harmattan "meego" | 23:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | darn, I forgot to copy SpeedEvil 's golden statement about maemo and what it looks like | 23:29 |
| ruskie | BSP? | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | it quite suggests why things weren't done that way sketched above | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | board support package, goole linux bsp | 23:30 |
| ruskie | so basically drivers? | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | windows worls calls that "driver cd" | 23:30 |
| ruskie | and a way to boot it I guess | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 23:30 |
| ruskie | yeah that could actually work better | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ETA 3min \o/ | 23:32 |
| ruskie | ? | 23:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | some lengthy YT upload that eats my DSL bandwidth and makes surfing a PITA | 23:34 |
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| ruskie | ahh | 23:36 |
| * ruskie is downloading the welcome back stuff from psn | 23:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-2uAOypbfg hmmm | 23:38 |
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| RST38h | Nokia at 6.66 | 23:45 |
| RST38h | Ah, the magic of the numbers... | 23:45 |
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| jacekowski | going up or down? | 23:45 |
| RST38h | up! | 23:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the've seen my video and the *awesome* things you can encounter with Nokia devices :-) | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | Telling users/customers that symbian is dead man walking was a brilliant move ;P | 23:52 |
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| ShadowJK | relink? | 23:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly I like the music part the best, I never even knew this song been on that device (I don't even know the song) | 23:57 |
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