IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-05-29

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DocScrutinizerwhy GPS sucks for some, and not for others / why GPS needs *some* SIM inserted to phone, to get a quick fix:  p.8 ""2.3 Assistance Data Delivery Procedure""00:20
infobotsomebody said rrlp was the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or
DocScrutinizererr, ++ " / why GPS chip is connected to modem rather than main CPU"00:21
kerioDocScrutinizer: because the nokia engineers were taking the piss?00:22
keriothe n900 is not a phone, they should've stopped pretending it was one a long time ago00:22
Corsac“they” being?00:23
Corsacnokia always called it a “mobile computer”, remember00:24
DocScrutinizer>>4.1 Measure Position Request00:24
DocScrutinizerThis component is used by the SMLC to request location measurements or a location estimate from the MS. It includes QoS, other instructions, and possible assistance data to the MS. This component is defined as follows:...<<00:24
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DocScrutinizerMS == mobile station == phone00:25
kerio>not a phone00:25
SpeedEvilCan the tower help the moile, even ifg it's not authenticted?00:26
SpeedEvilOr is it authenticted SIMs only?00:26
DocScrutinizerI guess yes00:26
DocScrutinizeras you also can do 911 calls without auth00:26
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SpeedEvilNot in the UK.00:26
kerioSpeedEvil: D:00:26
DocScrutinizereverywhere, just they forbid it in some countries00:27
vi___is it possible to uninstall the cssu camera ui?00:27
DocScrutinizervi___: ask MohammadAG00:27
MohammadAGyou can downgrade to an older version using apt-get install camera-ui=version00:28
MohammadAGvi___, may I ask why?00:28
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merlin1991MohammadAG: I guess "because the new one crashes"00:46
merlin1991(a lot lately and I have no idea what changed)00:47
xd13they should have made it a phone, its what I use it for and what i need00:49
MohammadAGmerlin1991, can you debug it?00:49
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merlin1991does it have symbols?00:50
merlin1991how do I prevent it from spawning when I open the lid00:51
MohammadAGI have a camera-u-dbg package00:51
MohammadAGif not, then that wasn't in the last update....00:51
MohammadAGdsmetool -k /usr/bin/camera-ui00:51
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DocScrutinizerwe shouldn't include..... err I've been told to stop this00:52
merlin1991DocScrutinizer :D00:52
merlin1991MohammadAG: camer-ui was as non dbg in the update00:53
merlin1991I'd happily create traces for you on crash, but I'll need the dbg package00:53
MohammadAGmerlin1991, apt-cache search camera-ui-dbg doesn't show anything?00:53
* DocScrutinizer sits on his hands00:54
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, nothing we do for -testing, for -stable, I agree00:54
DocScrutinizer(typing with my nose)00:54
MohammadAGwe can't distribute Nokia's binary anymore00:54
MohammadAGmerlin1991, got scratchbox?00:54
merlin1991that pc's broken :/00:54
merlin1991actually got a new mobo today00:54
MohammadAGsec then00:54
merlin1991but I'll get that @ some point  next week00:55
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merlin1991btw DocScrutinizer got the board for ~70€ in the end00:55
merlin1991reacted nowhere unless the pressure was high enough to bend the board00:55
DocScrutinizerhell, another 5min and another day is gone without me doing anything useful00:56
javispedroit's saturday00:56
javispedroyou don't do anything useful on a saturday.00:56
DocScrutinizerno reason to forget about eating00:56
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: What oard?00:56
merlin1991the motherboard of my dev notebook00:57
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* SpeedEvil stabs ebay.00:57
SpeedEvilThey changed the page format, so my sniper missed a motherboard for my notebook that went at 2.9900:57
DocScrutinizerin less than 3 min it's sunday "What's wrong with SUNDAY? it's the LORD'S day!"00:58
Gyjfsunday is the worst day of the weekend00:58
merlin1991sleep in and be happy00:58
* javispedro goes play portal00:58
SpeedEvilOn a fairly off-topic note - does anyone know of anything for X that will beep if I've typoed a word?00:58
merlin1991javispedro: 1 or 2?00:58
DocScrutinizerI bet Rance Muhammiz felt the same, Gyjf00:59
javispedromerlin1991: not decided yet00:59
merlin1991imo 1 is better00:59
Gyjfcant say i know who that is doc00:59
javispedro1 is it :)00:59
DocScrutinizerGyjf: Frank Zappa - 200 Motels. In case I lost you01:00
Gyjfaaah zappa01:00
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: duh, definitely never heard about01:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, on a scale of 1-10 on the sanity scale, what do you think of putting Qt 4.8 in the CSSU, if it's stable01:01
MohammadAGI'll go for some negatives01:02
javispedroeither way01:02
vldcnstbuffer overflow01:02
javispedromohammadag is the one doing it01:02
javispedroif he feels it should be ... progressive, so be it.01:02
javispedroif we want a stable conservative cssu we should start it someday ;)01:03
DocScrutinizerI feel we need a meeting to discuss how to deal with all these questions01:03
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MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.8.0-tp] > grep -r MAEMO_7 *01:03
MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.8.0-tp] >01:03
MohammadAGI expected that to return something :p01:04
DocScrutinizergrep -r MAEMO *|sort|uniq  ;-)01:04
javispedroMaemo 7 is Windows Phone 701:05
lardmannight all01:07
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DocScrutinizernight lardman|gone01:08
MohammadAGICD is only available on maemo right?01:08
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maemo_expertwhat is maemo?01:09
DocScrutinizerit's no publicly know FOSS pkg01:09
javispedroincluding harmattan afaik01:09
maemo_expertwhat is FOSS?01:10
DocScrutinizermaemo_expert: one more...01:10
MohammadAGit's one of those bots again01:10
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, keep it a bit01:11
MohammadAGThis is a PNG01:11
MohammadAGso it's not the guy from the conference, you can get it rid of it now01:11
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maemo_expertguise, i just bought my android phone, is it possible to run maemo on it?01:12
maemo_experti mean, it's both linux, right?01:12
MohammadAGno, you might want to have a look at meego01:12
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javispedronah, maemo is gnu/linux, android is only linux.01:12
DocScrutinizernot even that01:13
Px26pretty much busybox, not gnu01:13
maemo_expertglibc? i don't want thos gnome shit01:13
maemo_experti just want maemo01:13
DocScrutinizermay I...?01:13
javispedro"gnome shit"01:14
maemo_expertyeah, sorry my english is not that god01:14
MohammadAGyou don't realize maemo is largely hildon on the UI parts, and that's based on gtk right?01:14
maemo_expertjust wanted to say i dont like gnome01:14
maemo_expertyes gtk is cool, but gnome sucks01:15
maemo_expertbecause gnome is only good for ubuntu noobs01:15
MohammadAGLast I checked gtk uses glib01:15
maemo_expertyea, that sucks, glibc is only good for noobs, real hackers use dietlibc01:15
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MohammadAGget maemo working with that then, whatever it is01:16
maemo_expertyeah, working on it01:16
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maemo_expertproblem is: there isn't a decent c lib out there01:17
javispedroworking on _what_01:17
maemo_expertporting gtk on dietlibc01:17
javispedroyou are confusing glib and glibc01:17
MohammadAGjavispedro, experts do that sometimes, apparently...01:18
maemo_expertwhat's the difference?01:18
DocScrutinizercan't, he's maemo_expert01:18
maemo_expertyes i am01:18
javispedroandi3, while we're at it, why don't voluntarily try #meego01:18
maemo_experti had a n900 for like 2 weeks in a row01:18
MohammadAGWow, that's impressive01:19
maemo_expertso i'm pretty good with maemo01:19
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MohammadAGmaemo_expert, why are you here again?01:19
maemo_expertporting maemo to my new anroid phone01:19
* javispedro should be playing portal01:19
MohammadAGby the looks of it, you're just dissing maemo and it's dependencies01:20
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* SpeedEvil is playing portal on his n900.01:20
keriojavispedro: the cake is a lie01:20
keriojavispedro: also space01:20
kerioand lemons01:20
maemo_expertspoiler: glados kills wheatly01:20
javispedroand potatos.01:20
Gyjfdont spoil the game dude01:20
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maemo_expertoh sorry01:20
SpeedEvilSnape kills Pikachu.01:21
keriojavispedro: haha01:21
maemo_expertthat was portal 2 i was talking about btw01:21
maemo_expertno i don't spoil portal01:21
kerioand it's... wrong01:21
javispedrotrolling can stand, spoiling portal...01:21
Gyjfyou dont spoil a great game01:21
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kerioyou don't spoil a great game *wrongly*01:21
* ShadowJK ponders youube videos to scare people afraid of flying01:21
MohammadAGkerio, careful, he might get it right01:21
kerioglados doesn't kill wheatley01:21
MohammadAGkerio, shush01:22
maemo_expertwhat does she do then?01:22
keriowhat game did you play?01:22
maemo_expertsuper mario01:22
MohammadAGkicks you out of #maemo01:22
maemo_expertpokemon (red)01:22
Gyjfey, seriously, let him play the game and see what happends01:22
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ShadowJKoh sorry, I walked into the middle of a troll session :s01:22
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kerioMohammadAG: he feels productive already!01:22
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MohammadAGincoming PM spam in 3, 2, 101:23
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javispedroi am too good for these people ;)01:24
MohammadAGgives*, f me01:24
* kerio fs MohammadAG 01:24
javispedronow, be peaceful, all of this beeping and noise doesnt allow me to hear glados voice.01:24
keriojavispedro: where are you?01:24
merlin1991javispedro: glados wants to killl you01:25
merlin1991javispedro: the cake is a lie!01:25
merlin1991javispedro: BEEP01:25
MohammadAGjavispedro, coop is fun01:25
keriomerlin1991: wrong game dude01:25
merlin1991also kerio no right game01:25
merlin1991he's playin portal01:25
Gyjf1 or 2?01:25
kerioooh, portal 1?01:25
Gyjfboth great games01:25
merlin19911 I think01:25
keriohaven't thought about that01:25
merlin1991at least he said so a few lines above01:25
MohammadAG2, surely01:26
javispedrothe first, I beat the second already01:26
javispedrowell, not coop.01:26
keriojavispedro: it'll probably be disappointing, story-wise01:26
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keriobut i prefer it to portal 2 wrt the actual game01:27
kerioportal 2 is a bit consolized :(01:27
MohammadAGPortal 2 is epic01:28
DocScrutinizerwe probably should have banned the IPv601:28
Gyjfwhy not?01:29
kerioMohammadAG: it is!01:29
ShadowJKOut of not knowing how to properly lay down a ban for IP6 addresses?01:29
keriop1 is just better as a game01:29
MohammadAGkerio, consoles are epic01:29
keriotwitchiness is cool01:29
kerioMohammadAG: not really01:29
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: just lazy01:29
DocScrutinizerand hungry01:30
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DocScrutinizerand tired01:30
kerioconsoles would be epic if they didn't insist on making you use those weird things instead of mouse + keyboard01:30
ShadowJKI thought that were their advantage :-)01:30
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MohammadAGkerio, UT3 supports a mouse and keyboard on the PS3, just sayin01:30
kerioMohammadAG: i know01:31
merlin1991I don't like portal 2 because the restrictive element in the puzzles is not the obstacle you have to overcome01:31
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merlin1991but the space where to put your portals01:31
Gyjfmouse gives you a lot higher precision and keyboard lot more keys01:31
keriootoh, you have to play UT301:31
ShadowJKThose controllers with analog joystick are actually good enough approximations that you can give somoene a few months training to transfer them to controlling real life remote vehicles :-)01:31
merlin1991imo portal 1 > portal 201:31
MohammadAGShadowJK, a console's advantage is that you buy a game for it, rather than upgrade hardware then buy the games01:31
ShadowJKMohammadAG, yes indeed01:31
kerioyou mean "buy" the games01:31
MohammadAGkerio, I'm on official firmware, don't pirate shit01:32
MohammadAGI admit, I pirated Portal 2 till it came out here, which was in mid may01:32
kerioMohammadAG: i was talking about the pc01:32
ShadowJKMohammadAG, on PC you upgrade, "wtf?", upgrade, "wtf?", spend 5000 on the beefiest PC you can find, "wtf?", it's a quest, bigger than any in-game quest, for fps, and you always lose.01:32
kerioand mouse+kbd >>>>>>> analog sticks01:32
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kerioShadowJK: especially when playing minecraft01:33
MohammadAGShadowJK, my laptops runs games better than my desktop01:33
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kerioalthough optifog is incredible for that01:33
kerioMohammadAG: in UT3 they separate players based on control method01:33
keriobecause someone playing with mouse and keyboard will *obliterate* someone with a controller01:34
ShadowJKOnce you get decent fps in GTAV or whatever you've already had an electrian install a high-power circuit to power your monster dual graphics cards01:34
kerioShadowJK: why only two?01:34
MohammadAGkerio, you can play Killzone 3 with the playstation move01:34
ShadowJKI don't know of any motherboard with 3 x 16 PCI-e lanes :P01:34
kerioyou want at least three for every one of your 6 monitors01:34
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MohammadAGI tried that once, online, it shoved me into a game with people using the normal controller01:35
MohammadAGI didn't get one kill01:35
ShadowJKFor sure, in games where you have (near-)infinite agility a mouse is superior01:35
kerioShadowJK: your mouse is your agility!01:35
ShadowJKkerio, that's what I call infinite01:35
MohammadAGkerio, I could pwn someone on CoD with a controller01:35
MohammadAGfind me a way to play with him with a mouse and keyboard01:35
keriothe only way to make stuff equal is to lower everyone to the lowest common denominator01:36
* ShadowJK mostly plays flight sims where accuracy is king01:36
keriowhich is the controller with dual analogs01:36
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: multi-PC setup is the hype01:36
kerioMohammadAG: [citation needed]01:36
MohammadAGkerio, ha01:36
kerioMohammadAG: you can play with a controller on the pc01:36
Gyjfwhen they tried to make crossplatform fps the pcs were so supperior to the controller that they just abandoned that prjoect01:36
ShadowJKfirst person shooter is kinda strange in that you can turn around as fast as you can move the controller01:36
MohammadAGkerio, challenge accepted, game?01:37
kerioMohammadAG: i'm in bed, and the only game my laptop can play reliably is sauerbraten/redeclipse01:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: there are dudes that have a complete cockpit plus 7 PC and projectors in their cellar - and their wife has to wear stuardess clothing01:37
kerioand i'm also out of batteries for my mouse :<01:37
kerioDocScrutinizer: why 7 PCs?01:38
MacerDocScrutinizer: hahaahahahaa!!01:38
Gyjfi would have played you, but i have no legit games sry01:38
DocScrutinizeras one PC can't handle the 7 projectors01:38
keriohd projectors?01:38
MacerDocScrutinizer: why not?01:38
MohammadAGkerio, weak01:38
kerioMohammadAG: also i'm not really a fan of realistic shooters01:39
cehtehwhats realistic there?01:39
kerioMohammadAG: try red eclipse, it's opensource, fun, and really really fast01:39
keriocehteh: CoD01:39
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, luckily I gave up PC flight sim due to the ever race to keep up with graphics cards, before I became one of those01:39
Macerwhat is red eclipse?01:39
ShadowJKnow I'm progressing into RC nerd :/01:40
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MohammadAGCoD is far from realistic imo01:40
cehtehmouse with recoil? shoots which really hurt? no respawn?01:40
keriocehteh: regenerating health, slow movement speed, realistic environment01:40
MacerShadowJK: does ms still make a flight simulator?01:40
ShadowJKThose RC Helicopter pilots are amazing. It's like they have infinite agility, AND infinite precision at their disposal simultaneously :-)01:40
ShadowJKMacer, I think so01:40
keriothe "realistic" was in massive quotes01:40
cehtehi never played CoD ... tremolous and sauerbraten sometimes01:40
ShadowJKMacer, in any case, whether they do or not, people would still be flying it01:40
* ShadowJK remembers people were flying MSFSIM 95 in 200501:41
cehtehboth are rather fictional/comical01:41
keriotremulous is based on Q3, right?01:41
keriosame as urban terror01:41
MacerShadowJK: haha01:41
ShadowJK(even though 98 was as much of an improvement as Windows 98 over Windows 95)01:41
merlin1991IL2 > msfsim01:41
Gyjf95... nostalgia01:42
Gyjfwin95 was actually my first os01:42
keriocehteh: red eclipse is sauerbraten with more movement01:42
MohammadAGbesides GAN and crashandd-ie, who has a PS3 here?01:42
kerioand a bit more modes and maps01:42
DocScrutinizersauebraten ROOAAAAR01:42
Maceri have never heard of any of these games01:42
ShadowJKI recently-ish flew msfsim latest or whatever, and the planes still felt like they had half the mass of a real one, half the atmosphere of real, and half the response of real01:42
MohammadAGme neither01:42
* ShadowJK would call Kickstart 1.2 & Workbench 1.3 his first os01:43
* kerio flew google earth's flight sim once01:43
ShadowJKit's fake :)01:43
kerioi crashed on St. Peter's cathedral01:43
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MohammadAGkerio, what date?01:44
keriofelt good01:44
ShadowJKI hope I'll one day have enough cash to get a real helicopter license :(01:44
DocScrutinizermeh, WB1.3 been a nice improvement01:44
Gyjfi bet st peter was pissed01:44
DocScrutinizereven got a ROM for it01:44
ShadowJKOr atleast, I want to be in a helicopter doing emergency landing after complete engine failure :)01:44
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, iirc ROM for 1.2 and 1.3 was same, it was only the non-ROM OS that changed01:45
cehtehShadowJK: famous last words :P01:45
DocScrutinizerwhile previously I was happy with booting from kickstart disk and WB disk01:45
ShadowJKcehteh, hey I can do it in flightgear! :)01:45
ShadowJKoh, Amiga 1000 :)01:45
cehtehyes but in reality people are not always as lucky01:45
keriocehteh: no srsly try red eclipse01:45
ShadowJKdidn't have ROM01:45
DocScrutinizerthe best01:45
ShadowJKmy Amiga no longer boots :(01:46
ShadowJKI tried in 2007, yellow screen :(01:46
DocScrutinizermine are gone01:46
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ShadowJKcehteh, :) From the momeny the warning siren sounds at 0:36, the engine is shutdown and not providing any power at all :)01:47
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DocScrutinizerflying heli is fun01:49
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DocScrutinizerthough sometimes the rotor could use balancing01:49
DocScrutinizerquite a shaky experience otherwise01:49
ShadowJKI bought a precision scale for balancing my model heli's blades. The scale works much much better after I realized the lid was on.01:50
cehtehShadowJK: nice skidding on the ground .. had they wheels?01:50
ShadowJKcehteh, usual skids01:50
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: the one I sat in wasn't balanced01:50
ShadowJKSkids actually have this wearable surface on them that you can skid on, and change if you wear it out excessively01:51
DocScrutinizerwell, massage for free ;-P01:51
ShadowJKYou can even slide down asphalt01:51
SpeedEvilShadowJK: :)01:52
SpeedEvilMany planes also have skid-blocks.01:52
SpeedEvilOn the tail - so that if they bump the tail on the way up, it wears the block, not the structure.01:52
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Eeek - water.01:52
DocScrutinizerwas about to write exactly that01:53
ShadowJKYeah, water everywhere :)01:53
SpeedEvilNice flare.01:53
* SpeedEvil ponders helicopter-IVI01:53
ShadowJKTo be fair, an autorotating helicopter has about the same glide ratio as the space shuttle.. However, a heli usually lands at lower speed and shorter distance than the space shuttle :)
DocScrutinizerwill make yiu sick when the thing shakes like mad01:54
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DocScrutinizerbtw there's that geek that built that famous spaceshuttle sim freeware01:56
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, may I ask how a SIM toolkit works?01:56
MohammadAG(directly interfacing with modem?)01:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I'm not entirely sure01:56
ShadowJKI would imagine, that STK defines a virtual machine, and that the SIM card contains code in that VM language for the handset to execute01:57
DocScrutinizerI think it's some sort of java running either *inside* the sim, or on the modem processor01:57
SpeedEvil (@40s or so)01:57
ShadowJKOrbitersim has superb spaceflight simulation, in precision of orbital mechanics it goes beyond anything else I've ever seen, and it even pays great amount of attention to get the details regarding a spacecraft's own rotation around its own axis right...01:58
ShadowJKBut when it comes to atmospheric flight, orbitersim is, well, worse or equal to one-man one-month flightsim projects :)01:59
DocScrutinizera friend of mine probably still flying to saturn in realtime ;-P01:59
ShadowJKI flew to moon in realtime in orbitersim :P01:59
ShadowJKMy lunar orbit insertion calculation was wrong, and I wasn't at computer, so I missed the moon and didn't have enough fuel to go back :(02:00
Gyjfif you get there, be sure to get some moonrock back home02:00
Gyjfits worth a crapload of money02:00
Gyjflike, 1.7mil$ for a rock02:01
ShadowJKsimulator rocks aren't worth what real life rocks are02:01
DocScrutinizerI heard there's a shitload of He3 on moon02:01
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, wow, looks almost like a model heli at that point :)02:01
GyjfHe3 is hard to transport02:01
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yeah well, He3 is a bit like cold fusion isn't it..02:02
* DocScrutinizer waves... Paramedics came to separate chair from his ass02:03
ShadowJKOr rather, it depends on fusion :)02:04
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SpeedEvil - fun.02:29
SpeedEvil(mono tiltrotor)02:29
ShadowJKthat's like a...02:30
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ShadowJKDamn, i forget the words. The opposite of a bo105?02:31
ShadowJKOh, coaxial..02:31
ShadowJK.. dynamic stabilizers02:32
SpeedEvilIt's like a V22, but with none of the active shizzle.02:34
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Gyjfanyone updated to aircrack-ng 1.1?02:51
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, "active shizzle"?02:53
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, are you suggesting the wing is passive? :-)02:54
DocScrutinizerGyjf: pending02:54
Gyjfi just updated it and its not working anymore02:55
Gyjf"command not found" style02:55
Gyjfyes, im root02:56
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, does V22 have cyclic control on the rotors btw?02:56
DocScrutinizerwtf is this?
DocScrutinizerGyjf: good to know02:58
ShadowJKAs a sim-fullsize-heli sim-fullsize-airplane, sim-rc-heli, sim-rc-plane, rl-rc-heli pilot I'd imagine the best way to do V22 would be to have computers implement tilt wing as extension of cyclic response :)02:58
Gyjfso i gotta uninstall it and reinstall 1.0?02:58
ShadowJKBut then I'm biased and imagine they'd want to make it into an airplane as soon as possible, ignoring the fact that a heli in forward flight acts mostly like a (poorly trimmed) airplane02:59
DocScrutinizerlemme check what I got (not that I've tested lately)02:59
ShadowJKand paycuts for people flying "just an airplane"02:59
Gyjfalso, if you use aircrack much i would suggest uing for automation03:00
Gyjfworks greeat03:00
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, "hiller" suggests he wanted self-stabilization...03:00
ShadowJKstabilization as in attitude stabilization, not "horizontal translation stabilization" :)03:00
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# apt-cache policy aircrack-ng03:00
DocScrutinizer  Installed: 1.0-303:00
DocScrutinizer  Candidate: 1.1-maemo403:00
Gyjfand the "reboot" command isnt working... it just powers it off03:01
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DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# dpkg -L aircrack-ng|pastebinit -03:04
ShadowJKreboot/shutdown/half is best issued through dsme03:04
Gyjfim uninstalling it now03:05
DocScrutinizerI'm tempted to try a `start reboot`03:05
ShadowJKheh :)03:05
* ShadowJK should get his second N900 into use to try crazy crap people do03:06
Gyjfwindows style?03:06
ShadowJKIt has the Nokia Care screen protector, I need to get a proper one :)03:06
DocScrutinizerinitctl list|grep boot03:06
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Gyjfreinstalling 1.103:07
DocScrutinizerinitctl list|grep shut03:07
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* DocScrutinizer muses over `initctl events`03:10
cehtehmhm .. my selfbuild case finally got a crack .. now i ordered a otterbox03:11
cehtehi guess thats among the best protection one can get03:12
lolcatcehteh: You bult a case for the N900?03:12
cehtehexcept maybe the metal case dangergrrl showed some days ago03:12
DocScrutinizermetal case????03:13
lolcatcehteh: THat was an awesome case, if I had a N900 Id get one03:13
cehtehlolcat: yes vacuum molded ABS and neoprene03:13
lolcatDocScrutinizer: I could check my logs, but you are just obliviant towards me03:13
cehtehsurvied quite well :)03:13
DocScrutinizerwith a battery of RG55 for connecting external antennae?03:14
DocScrutinizerlolcat: wut?03:15
lolcatDocScrutinizer: Oblivious?03:15
* DocScrutinizer considers to put lolcat on the /ignore list again, for the single purpose not to have to deal with this guy's riddles03:16
Gyjfso, the programs seem to be in place at /usr/local/bin03:17
Gyjfbut not the lns03:17
lolcatOh, I am not ignored anymore?03:17
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Gyjfso do i have to symlink all of the programs manually?03:18
cehtehmhm i wonder how well gps and cell radio work in a metal case :P03:18
DocScrutinizercehteh: additional metal case for RF equipment usually isn't playing nice with the purpose of actually using the device03:19
DocScrutinizerGyjf: ln? to /usr/local? why not fix your root's $PATH?03:20
cehtehi think the otterbox is really good, never heared bad about their equipment03:20
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cehtehand 17Eur or so makes it affordable too03:21
Gyjfhow do i do that?03:21
DocScrutinizerstill wondering what that "I could check my logs, but you are just obliviant towards me" meant. Darn this is annoying03:23
* DocScrutinizer tries to `killall lolcat` on his wetware processor03:23
ShadowJKIt means "I could check my logs, but you dont give a fuck about what happens to me"03:24
ShadowJKMeaning. "I could check my logs, but you just told me to check my logs to get rid of me"03:24
DocScrutinizernot an angstrom better03:24
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ShadowJKmeaning. "People X tell me to do Y people Z tell my to talk to X"03:25
DocScrutinizerI didn't tell *anything* to lolcat03:25
DocScrutinizerso why t f I got this load on my brain processing time now?03:25
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ShadowJKlol dunno03:29
DocScrutinizeror did I tell you anything I forgot about, lolcat ?03:29
DocScrutinizerif that's the case then your comment wasn't really helping and you should've known it isn't03:29
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I'd imagine it must use cyclics. For the simple reason that the rotors have way too much inertia to differentially throttle - that works on quadrotors. With fullsize props, you'd get torque effects.03:32
DocScrutinizerGyjf: how to fix $PATH? simply edit your ~/.profile03:34
DocScrutinizeror .bashrc, whatever you prefer03:34
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DocScrutinizerexport PATH03:35
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DocScrutinizertake care, usually you don't want . (cwd) in your root's $PATH03:37
DocScrutinizeralso NB this takes efect when using "root", but NOT when using "sudo gainroot"03:39
merlin1991I still don't know what's the difference between sudo gainroot and root03:42
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: mind to enlighten me?03:42
DocScrutinizerI love to...03:42
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MohammadAGone sets environmental variables, the other doesn't03:43
MohammadAGdbusdispatcher.cpp: In member function 'void Maemo::DBusDispatcher::setupDBus()':03:43
MohammadAGdbusdispatcher.cpp:474: error: 'g_main_context_get_thread_default' was not declared in this scope03:43
MohammadAGglib.h is included, any suggestions?03:43
DocScrutinizersudo gainroot; date; id; uptime; exit03:43
DocScrutinizeris the short form for03:43
DocScrutinizersudo date; sudo id; sudo uptime03:43
DocScrutinizerwhile "root" is another way to say "su -"03:44
DocScrutinizerroot will change your whole environment03:44
DocScrutinizerwhile sudo gainroot just raises your permissions but your environment is that of user still03:44
Gyjfi will do this in the morning03:45
Gyjfclock is almost 303:45
merlin1991sudo gainroot does change my path though03:45
MohammadAGnope, it shouldn't03:45
Gyjfor you can just ssh in as root :P03:46
MohammadAG(it doesn't here)03:46
merlin1991after sudo gainroot  Ihave /sbin and /usr/sbin appended to path03:46
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: you'll see the effect on "cd" or "ls -l ~/"03:46
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MohammadAGmeh, can't think, night03:47
merlin1991had  a look at the gainroot script03:47
merlin1991it actually does append the stuff to path03:47
merlin1991and has an option to use --use-su03:48
merlin1991wich does su - in the end03:48
DocScrutinizerthat's what "root" does iirc03:48
DocScrutinizermessybox nonsense :-S03:49
merlin1991yep just found that03:49
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merlin1991root does indeed03:49
merlin1991exec sudo gainroot --use-su03:49
merlin1991wtf messystyle03:49
DocScrutinizerif there'd be a proper su, you wouldn't need all that cruft03:50
DocScrutinizersome 18 months ago I thought this is maemo idiocy, but actually it's all busybox03:53
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DocScrutinizerlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2010-06-23 06:13 /bin/su -> busybox03:54
DocScrutinizer-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 355592 2010-03-12 09:54 /bin/busybox03:55
DocScrutinizerso how's that supposed to work, without busybox set SUID? exactly, it doesn't without tricks03:55
DocScrutinizerand you bet no sane maintainer or devel would consider chmod u+s busybox ;-P03:56
DocScrutinizerso you have to call   -rwsr-xr-x 2 root root 91584 2009-04-17 10:50 /usr/bin/sudo   to the rescue03:58
DocScrutinizerwhich is what gainroot and root do03:59
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merlin1991thx :)04:00
DocScrutinizeryw, a pleasure04:00
merlin1991but now it's time for me to catch some sleep (you should too ;D)04:01
merlin1991or do you operate entirely on coffee and thin air?04:01
DocScrutinizerthat korean guy fell dead off his chair after 4 days of constant gaming. I'm planning to beat this by at least factor 100 ;-P04:03
DocScrutinizer(I'm cheating though)04:05
Choomyou're gonna fall off your chair in less than an hour?04:05
DocScrutinizerdon't think so XD04:06
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, if you've ever seen koreans playing starcraft, you'd know that it's futile to achieve their performance by simply staying awake...04:27
DocScrutinizermeh, I'd not even want to compete on that level04:28
DocScrutinizerthe trick is to cheat smartly ;)04:29
DocScrutinizerlook at the US president's bodyguards - they are on duty 24/704:30
DocScrutinizeranyway sleep is overreated04:30
ShadowJKBut 3 - 5 different set of bodyguards04:31
DocScrutinizernot really04:31
ShadowJKWatching korean PROs play SC is like startrek tng, Data doing stuff04:31
DocScrutinizerthey take a 5min nap while driving from oval office to the helicopter, then another 10 min in the heli04:31
DocScrutinizerwhile the president is sleeping, they're awake04:32
DocScrutinizerWhen my dad built Data, he only practiced ;-D04:34
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ShadowJKLike, watching those replays, I can almost..... 300 actions per minute... 5 (FIVE!) clicks per second... I can ALMOST follow them... And I might be able to do shit as fast... BUT, they start out IMPLEMENTING a plan, they REACT to the opponent's moves, they formulate MEW strategy on the fly... It's just fucking unbelievable any human brain can work that fast04:35
ShadowJKactually, the unbelievable part is that they can absorb the information04:35
DocScrutinizersmart filtering and a good neuronal network to do the associative pattern matching... Nothing spectacular04:36
Choomthe human brain is capable of quite a lot of stuff provided it's trained to react to it04:37
DocScrutinizerI've given up on this as it's boring04:37
Choomyou don't have to think about typing either04:37
Choomat least I don't, I think about the words and my fingers do the rest by themselves04:37
ShadowJKWhen you look at them, they're shifting focus of attention at like 30hz04:39
dangergrrldarn i don't even remember finding a metal case iĺl have to search my logfiles for it04:39
DocScrutinizerlike driving a car (something that's still fun to me), you're lost if you want to *think* what to do next04:39
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ShadowJKWhich is so high, that they actually prefer CRT over LCD, because LCD/TFT is too slow to display clean frames :-)04:39
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I start to sypathise with those guys04:41
DocScrutinizermore often than not I spot problems/bugs in programs by subtle changes in timing of the reaction04:43
ShadowJKThere was this famous incident in where one guy lost mostly because of a 1-bit transmission error :P04:43
ShadowJKThey have one guy practicing against an opponen controlled by 2 humans :-)04:46
DocScrutinizerMSB or LSB ? ;-D04:46
ShadowJKdunno :)04:47
ShadowJKa 16x16 area of the map became penetrable where it previous had not been04:47
DocScrutinizerone wrong bit is what causes segfaults and buserrors04:47
DocScrutinizer...or holes in the wall were none are expected :-D04:48
* DocScrutinizer goes fixing another bit in the matrix04:48
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DocScrutinizer"there is no spoon"04:49
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cehtehdangergrrl: wasnt that you?04:56
cehtehsomeone here posted it, thought it was you04:56
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SpeedEvilOn an unrelated matter to spoons. Does anyone know if bluetooth devices - unpaired - can be reliably IDd?05:07
SpeedEvilOr is it simple to spoof the address.05:07
SpeedEvilI'm wondering if I can use a bluetooth device as a 'key'05:08
SpeedEvilOn reflection, it seems unlikely, as it'd need to do a key exchange, rather than just broadcast the MAC05:08
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DocScrutinizerumm, given the fact you must have some sort of flash on a BT dongle...05:09
SpeedEvilI was meaning a pair of BT headphones.05:10
DocScrutinizerno diff05:10
SpeedEvilI'm not asking can they - the common CSR chips are quite flexile enough to - it's will they.05:10
SpeedEvilAnd I suspect the answer is no.05:10
DocScrutinizerthe mask part of the chip is always the same05:10
* SpeedEvil wishes CSR stuff was more dev-friendly.05:11
ShadowJKI have a bunch of bluetooth dongles all identifying as 11:11:11:11...05:11
SpeedEvilA surprising amount of stuff is flash.05:11
DocScrutinizerso whatever your BT headphones say their "name" is... yes I'll spoof it05:12
SpeedEvilFor example05:12
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SpeedEvilAnnoyingly, the dev environment is decidedly unfree (in both senses)05:13
DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing like an unspoofable MAC. BT pairing OTOH is considered safe afaik05:14
SpeedEvilAnnoyingly you can't pair to multiple devices or that'd be a good solution.05:15
DocScrutinizerindeed, a rare feature05:15
DocScrutinizerthere are "networks" of (iirc) up to 8 devices05:16
merlin1991So doc, how do you cheat to avoid sleep?05:16
DocScrutinizerI'm sleeptyping05:16
ShadowJKCaffeine pills?05:16
ShadowJKred bull?05:16
ShadowJKRed bull heli? :D05:17
DocScrutinizerI got a good cpufreq governor05:17
merlin1991Sleeptyping, hell I gotta learn how todo that05:17
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ShadowJKActually you only need to be awake 5 minutes every 60-120 minutes to create the illusion of being awake05:17
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merlin1991No honestly you seem to be awake 24/705:18
DocScrutinizersee? it works :-)05:18
SpeedEvil95% of DocScrutinizer is simply a reprogrammed 'clippy'.05:19
ds3ShadowJK: any research to justify that duty cycle?05:19
* merlin1991 wonders what doc does for a living and how that works out with his irc activity05:19
ShadowJKds3, not really :-)05:19
ds3prehaps from the ATC industry ;)05:19
ShadowJKds3, just 10.. wait, is it 2011 already? 12 years of IRC experience :-)05:20
DocScrutinizer<yawn> did I miss anything?05:20
dangergrrlcehteh: i don't remember it does not mean it was not me;  it is entirely possible if i look in my browser history i have such a case sometimes my love for beer gets the best of me and i forget things :)05:21
ShadowJKAnything you do in a browser is ignored/forgotten/forgiven on IRC05:22
DocScrutinizer51DocScrutinizer: not really, you can take another nap05:22
* merlin1991 starts to get docs cheat05:22
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ShadowJKDude don't reply to yourself, It's pyscho.05:22
merlin1991One doc is a general complaining raging bot05:23
merlin1991And the other one is real05:23
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merlin1991Using doc #1 as a relay from time to time05:23
DocScrutinizer51lol, and who's who?05:23
merlin1991To make doc #1 apear human too05:23
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merlin1991How's that test for chatbots called?05:24
merlin1991I thin that one was it05:25
ghostnik11hi wanted to know whats up with new meego, will we see any device in usa with new meego os and also will there be a new n900 or a phone that is similar to n900 with better specs?05:25
* merlin1991 starts the masterplan to unvail the doc bot05:26
SpeedEvilThere will be a new meego device from nokia this year - they have confirmed.05:26
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: who's your maker?05:26
SpeedEvilAnything further is quite questionable.05:27
merlin1991DocScrutinizer51: who's your maker?05:27
DocScrutinizer51merlin1991: DocScrutinizer51 is my maker05:27
merlin1991now if one says doc we know it ;)05:27
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: DocScrutinizer is my maker05:27
* merlin1991 is done with the op action, night #maemo05:28
ghostnik11speedevil: okay cool, hope they put usa 3g and 4g bands in it and allow it to run on tmobile network05:28
SpeedEvilghostnik11: No clue - sorry.05:29
SpeedEvilghostnik11: I have heard from sources that should know that the hardware has been in existance as usable prototypes for 9 months. Which puts limits on what chips it might have.05:30
ShadowJKUSA is an aberration, it takes great effort to support it05:30
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DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: latest FCC papers suggest it will do t-mo but no 4G05:30
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: why wouldn't nokia put a 4g band in there, they can put anything they imagine in there phones05:32
ShadowJK4g mostly doesn't exist yet05:32
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DocScrutinizer51dunno, maybe because there's been no chipset for that when development started05:32
ghostnik11shadowjK: i don't get why would it take a lot of effort to get supported in usa, i think the n900 is the best phone ever created in terms of smart phones and what you can do with it05:33
ghostnik11good point i am under tmobile and it really isn't 4g more like 3.505:33
ShadowJKUSA is problematic, because every single fucking operator uses their own frequence OR their own modulation05:33
DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: USA is insane wrt cellphone standard05:33
ShadowJKSo there is no competition, because everyone is sticking to their own shit05:34
SpeedEvilAnd each different waveband requires actual hardware to support.05:34
SpeedEvilEach different modulation requires support in the modem chipset to do it.05:34
SpeedEvilAnd in some cases, approval by the carrier.05:34
ShadowJKyeah ;/05:34
SpeedEvilThat is - you cannot make a phone, and connect it to the network, they need to approve it.05:34
DocScrutinizer51USA is worse than india and africa05:35
ghostnik11this is some bull, i am actually mad b/c right now at&t wants to buy tmobile usa reducing the amount of competition and know your saying this whole time the carriers have to give manufacturing phone companies approval b/4 they can build a phone05:35
* ShadowJK begins parsing05:36
DocScrutinizer51no, they give approval for you to use that phone with their network05:37
ShadowJKAs a non-american speaker you're incomprehensible05:37
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SpeedEvilghostnik11: In some cases, yes. Only GSM networks - generally - are 'you stick a SIM in, and it works'.05:37
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dangergrrltmobile has my account with the "unlimited*¨ data plan marked mandatory05:40
DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: you know each phone has an IMEI, a globally unique identifier, and carriers can 'ban' arbitrary phone models - even single phones05:40
dangergrrlbut they have me listed with some nokia symbian model that also has mandatory unlimited05:40
dangergrrltmobile is only less sucky than att05:41
DocScrutinizer51dangergrrl: lost me05:41
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: wow, thats not fair, as long as i willing to pay a carrier, they shouldn't block me if they see my imei and see that its not on there list of imei that are good on there network05:42
dangergrrli can not pick a lower data plan, this one is mandatory, i wouldn't want to anyhow but i can't05:42
* ShadowJK reparses: "this is quite disapproveable, I am actually quite upset right now, because the operator AT(et)T wants to buy tmobileusa, reducing the amount of competition, and, NOW YOU ARE saying carriers have to give manufacturing phone companies approval before they can build a phone"05:42
ghostnik11dangergrrl: if att buys tmobile-usa, i am screwed i refuse to pay a higher bill after the merger, and will just not have a cell phone and simply use sip through wi-fi connected to google voice05:43
DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: in south korea however it's mandatory to register your phone with that carrier, and they either give you their models or ask for really huge amounts of money for registering 'alien' models05:43
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: so wait that can happen in the usa also?05:44
* ShadowJK has: unlimited data transfer & speed 9.90€ / month, MultiSIM 5 cards maximum 3.90 per month.. :-)05:44
DocScrutinizer51can, could, dunno05:44
ShadowJKghostnik11, it depends on how fascist your operator wants to be05:45
DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: technically it's no problem05:45
ghostnik11shadowjk: i am under tmobile in usa and there not that bad b/c i only have data plan, unlimited and get free text and voice (via sip over 3g and wifi)05:46
ghostnik11for free text i use google voice05:46
dangergrrli don't know anyone who has an n900 and at&t cell service, they may not even offer service for an n900 they charge extra to allow tethering for example and they can not block it on an n90005:47
ShadowJKIf they go full Kim Jong Il level of fascism you better prepare to sacrifice your first born05:47
dangergrrland charge a premium for tethered bandwidth05:47
DocScrutinizer51here's always turaya and iridium and inmarsat ;-)05:48
dangergrrl\the n900 is way too open for the cell companies to like it05:48
ShadowJKMy oeprator says "Bandwidth is bandwidth is bandwidth"05:48
ghostnik11dangergrrl: thats another thing, i use android and have it rooted so i do tethering any time i want and don't get charged extra, but if at&t buys tmobile i can see that being blocked05:48
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ghostnik11dangergrrl: thats why i feel they didn't market under a carrier here in the states b/c every time i look at n900 i can't believe why it didn't come to states under tmobile, its far superior to iphone 3g that was out at the time n900 was out05:49
dangergrrli can forsee expensive consultant fees in the future of one or more us fcc commishioners :)05:49
DocScrutinizer51detwecting tehtering is really difficult and sually not done05:50
ghostnik11wait how can a carrier know if we are tethering, i mean if they see a spike in amout of data that a users uses for a day, that can't mean the user is tethering05:52
SpeedEvilEven more so with x86 phones05:52
dangergrrlif you have a locked device i thought they could turn it on and off05:52
SpeedEvilghostnik11: Deep packet inspection.05:52
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SpeedEvilghostnik11: Can the device run the program it's got packets coming through it from.05:53
SpeedEvilFor example - phones can't run starcraft.05:53
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ghostnik11speedevil: so that means they can see also if you in your data are using voip on your phone and block it05:53
SpeedEvilOf course.05:54
dangergrrli don't thing the ToS i am under provides for blocking arbitrary data05:54
DocScrutinizer51blocking SIP is a commonly used way to sell more minutes05:54
SpeedEvildangergrrl: Look at the 'to protect the network' clauses.05:55
ghostnik11speedevil: great, my whole plan of what i have been doing can be put in jeopardy if they feel like just inspecting my data, this is bad, i depend on sip05:55
SpeedEvilOr similar.05:55
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dangergrrlactually the 5GB and then clamp to ~80kbits is pretty effective05:56
dangergrrli can not do voip with tmobile right now05:56
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dangergrrlor listen to pandora05:56
dangergrrlwhen iḿ below my data quote pandora never skips on me riding my motorcycle all over central texas05:57
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ghostnik11dangergrrl: yeah but i never reach 5 gbs maybe 2gbs b/c i always feel like tmobile is watching me, especially since i had called and told them i don't want voice or text on my phone anymore and just wanted to keep my unlimited data plan, and get everything else for free b/c as long as i have internet on my phone i can get everything else free05:58
dangergrrlmost days i pull 5GB on the cable link05:58
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SpeedEvilI'm tending to not hit my 80G/mo cap by a fair margin.05:59
ghostnik11dangergrrl: yeah on home internet i pull 5gb in a day also on verizon fios but thats different05:59
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dangergrrland we didn't pay cable this month so been using my phone for pc internet05:59
ShadowJKMy 50kbps unit can stream BBC World Service fine.06:00
ShadowJKVoIP is like <20kbps :-)06:00
SpeedEvilI keep meaning to try to get a rtmp transcoder working properly.06:00
dangergrrli don't know what they are doing but i get 7.5kbytes/s on most file transfers06:01
dangergrrland nothing streaming works at all06:01
ShadowJKOf course, if operators want to be assholes they'll throttle to 0 kbps for 10 seconds and 40 for 10 seconds, and call it 2006:01
dangergrrlthat may be how they are doing it06:02
ShadowJK(and it'll be slightly less then 20 for a download)06:02
SpeedEvilDeep packet inspection.06:02
ghostnik11shadowjk: when i check my tmobile data though, its kind of weird b/c if i talk to someone while i am using sip on carrier network, per min its like a mb. so if i talk 19 mins it shows up as 19 mb06:02
SpeedEvilAnd per-site blocking.06:02
ShadowJKDemand information, demand details.06:02
dangergrrlpandora i can connect to06:02
ShadowJKI dunno06:02
dangergrrlbut i get regular pauses in the audio06:02
SpeedEvilMy ISP explicitly explains what they prioritise, and how.06:03
dangergrrlenough to where it is not enjoyable06:03
ShadowJKyou americans are like "I want a cellphone" <operator> "Ok, bend over, and I'll assrape you" - "Please be gentle" - "That'll be $150 extra for lube"06:03
SpeedEvilrtmp transcorder for flash - so I can watch a 1M flash stream as a 100k stream.06:03
ShadowJKI guess it's not easy when everyone is an assrapist06:04
dangergrrlShadowJK: there are only two gsm providers in the usa, probably only one soon06:04
ghostnik11i need to start like a sip revolution and tell people in usa that we should boycott carriers and just use sip and other voip for phone communcations06:04
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dangergrrlall other cell providers are CDMA06:05
ghostnik11dangergrrl: i just want to know if that merger goes through, how much fcc was bribed to make merger happen, b/c it seems like every tmobile customer is against this merger06:05
dangergrrlghostnik11: every cell phone customer should be against it no matter who they use06:06
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dangergrrlthere is supposed to be a new iphone soon that does both GSM and CDMA so that verizon customers can have world portable iphones06:07
DocScrutinizer51well, USA opted for CDMA and GSM was a late start and probably never performed up to breakeven ROI wise06:08
dangergrrlwhich the fcc may use as justification to allow the merger06:08
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DocScrutinizer51now they're simply running out of available band while going for 3G, 4G whatnot06:09
ghostnik11thats the thing i went from CDMA (verizon) to GSM (tmobile) and i won't go back, the fact that i can just take a sim and put into anyone and it will work, is fantastic06:09
dangergrrlthatś the biggest reason against it; only gsm phones are world portable and this merger would make att the only gsm provider06:09
ghostnik11meant to say any phone06:10
dangergrrltrue enough if my n900 broke i could go get a tracphone prepay at walmart and put my sim in it while the n900 was getting repaired06:11
dangergrrldunno who tracphone resells but it must be att or tmobile06:11
dangergrrlmy sister gets a good deal on unlimited text and data from virgin mobile and even has an android phone; in a year on what she saves over sprint (same network even) the android phones will be paid for06:13
dangergrrli wanted an n90006:14
dangergrrlif i didn't want an n900 i would still want a gsm device06:14
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dangergrrlhmm, is a $30 feature phone likely to be sim locked?06:15
ghostnik11i wish i had a n900, but learned about it late, i just wanted it to be offered in the states but didn't have money to buy it brand new off nokia site, and now i am waiting for the next n900 from nokia that will contain meego06:15
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dangergrrloh i bought mine on amazon06:16
dangergrrl$350 last december06:16
dangergrrllast time i checked they want $550 again06:16
DocScrutinizer51that's kinda insane06:17
dangergrrlif you watch the price on amazon they go as low as $30006:17
ghostnik11well i will wait, for this meego phone that i hope its coming to tmobile in usa and hopefully tmobile won't be bought by at&t so i will get to enjoy a phone that can last for the next 5 to 7 years with out having to say i need an upgrade or new phone06:17
dangergrrl$350 for a handheld computer than i can use as a phone?06:18
DocScrutinizer51dangergrrl: going up06:19
dangergrrlthatś not insane i would want it if it did not have gsm or cdma at all06:19
ghostnik11the thing about n900 is that it transcends time, i feel, its the only phone i know that can run 3 different OS and you can do anything with it. Apple has a commercial that says they have an app for everything for there iphone brand but an n900 transcends time which iphone can't b/c people always have to get latest one06:19
dangergrrli wouldn't buy it at 550, i would wait :)06:19
dangergrrlghostnik11: what i would do if i were you is wait for the manual for the new device to be released june 26th or so06:20
DocScrutinizer514 OS06:20
DocScrutinizer515 actually06:20
dangergrrlthen you will maybe know what itś specs are06:21
dangergrrlDocScrutinizer51: i am wanting to port OSKIT to n900 also06:21
ghostnik11dangergrrl: i will, i am just hoping even though its probably by a miracle that it would contain 4g bands06:22
dangergrrlthe n900 should go down in price before itś out of stock in theory06:22
DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: it won't06:22
dangergrrlit is 3.5 like the n90006:22
dangergrrlthat is released already06:22
dangergrrlin the fcc report06:22
dangergrrli also do not think it has an fm transmitter06:23
DocScrutinizer51I mentioned that like 2h ago06:23
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dangergrrlbecause the fcc report did not mention it06:23
ghostnik11dangergrrl: well if its 3.5 then thats perfect b/c my carrier only has up to 3.5 that they market as 4g06:23
dangergrrlDocScrutinizer51: was it hspda?  you know these acronyms better than i do06:24
DocScrutinizer51then why not get a N900?06:24
psycho_oreosbecause they are cheapskates06:24
dangergrrli love the fm transmitter06:24
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DocScrutinizer51d own   and  u p06:24
DocScrutinizer51high speed (downlink / uplink) packet access06:25
ghostnik11damn no fm transmitter but why wouldn't they include it as the n900 has it06:26
dangergrrli think i have 160 minutes more video to watch before i can archive some more video and free some disk space06:26
DocScrutinizer51too much trouble06:26
DocScrutinizer51with cert06:27
ghostnik11oh for tmobile its hspa + = 4g network here in usa06:27
DocScrutinizer51hspa+ is faster hspa06:28
dangergrrlDocScrutinizer51: if it had fm it would have been listed in that fcc test wouldn't it?06:28
DocScrutinizer51it's usually useless though06:28
DocScrutinizer51dangergrrl: probably06:28
dangergrrlmost of that report was greek to me06:29
dangergrrli have no idea if rf energy is harmful to my brain or if it is how much is enough to worry about06:29
SpeedEvilIsn't it exempted under 'low power' rules?06:29
psycho_oreosand here comes that same old lame debate about rf energy being harmful06:29
SpeedEvilDoes the n900 test report mention fmtx I guess06:29
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: also possible06:30
* SpeedEvil places psycho_oreos in his microwave oven, and hits defrost.06:30
dangergrrlSpeedEvil: they would have to turn it on in the body adsorbtion tests i am thinking06:30
psycho_oreosif you're that worried about rf energy is harmful, don't buy a phone, simple06:30
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DocScrutinizer51you could check back with N900 FCC06:30
* psycho_oreos sends SpeedEvil to hell for a quick tour of heated earth :þ06:30
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ghostnik11rf energy might be harmful but i think we should do more test on if it actually is or isn't06:30
SpeedEvildangergrrl: The power emitted by the FM transmitter is about 20 million times weaker than the cellphone.06:31
dangergrrlthey were measuring the maximum energy it could transmit into a tissue like substance shaped like a human head06:31
SpeedEvilAlso - the coupling of that frequency into the human body is worse than at GSM freqs.06:31
psycho_oreoseveryday we're exposed to rf energy of some sort, yet you're feeblishly worrying what a cell phone could do to your head.. good lord. There's plenty of other phones out there whom may not have placed such a burden on your head06:32
dangergrrliḿ not worried06:32
dangergrrlthat was the information that is released on the new device06:33
psycho_oreosI wonder how good of a troll you'll be in ##iphone or #android talking the same old bullshit with rf energy06:33
ghostnik11hey we don't know the implications right away some of these things take years to develop into a disease, look at cigarettes and lung cancer at first no one knew the dangers06:33
dangergrrli was scanning it for information06:33
dangergrrli was just saying i had no way to use most if the information that was available06:33
DocScrutinizer51psycho_oreos: please06:34
dangergrrlall that had been relesased was an fcc test report06:34
psycho_oreosthe bottom line is, if you're here to buy a phone for functionality, you probably wouldn't give a damn about rf being in the way06:34
* psycho_oreos sighs06:34
dangergrrlit lists all the bands that the device has radio transmitters on06:34
DocScrutinizer51dangergrrl: it's the SAR value, a mandatory test for all cellphones nowadays06:34
dangergrrli learned for example that is has 802.11n but not dual band06:35
DocScrutinizer51it allows to compare different phone types06:36
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: the SAR rating on my phone htc magic/sapphire 32B is on high end and the phone does heat up alot when under heavy use and some times my hands might hurt me for a little after i am done using it after heavy usages06:36
dangergrrlDocScrutinizer51: the info i was looking for was of the sort i just mentioned06:36
dangergrrlbut i scanned through all the diagrams of rf penetrating a model head to see if it said anything else interesting06:37
DocScrutinizer51dangergrrl: I know06:37
dangergrrlthat part was boring06:37
dangergrrlmy original statement was that i do not even know that it is a fact that rf energy is harmful at all06:38
dangergrrlsome people seem very concerned about VLF06:38
dangergrrli have not studied their claims06:39
dangergrrlso i do not know if it is harmful to live under high tension power lines for example06:39
DocScrutinizer51indeed, the farmers in northern germany, when their cows fall down dead when the 5Hz submarine communication transmitter fires06:39
DocScrutinizer51(some xx MW)06:40
dangergrrli am not saying it is not real06:40
dangergrrlbut do you know that it is real?06:41
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: is there an article on web i can read about that info you just posted06:41
DocScrutinizer51dead cows?06:41
dangergrrli said i have not reviewed factual evidence06:41
DocScrutinizer51dunno, google is your friend06:41
dangergrrldead cows that can be directly correlated to submarine VLF transmissions06:42
dangergrrli mean i have heard bits and pieces about a thing called HAARP06:42
dangergrrlbut the people who talk about it are usually of questionable sanity06:42
DocScrutinizer51hmm, rings a bell06:43
ghostnik11HAARP read about haarp and weather manipulation and nikolas tesla06:43
dangergrrli think itś a standing wave weapon of some sort in theory06:43
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dangergrrli don't know about a lot of things but i try to keep an open mind06:44
dangergrrli am pretty sure there is no secret reptillian world shadow government06:45
DocScrutinizer51well, the submarine thing is simple transmitter for reaching submarines on sea. You need insanely low freq and high energy. The antenna is a burried cable loop06:45
ghostnik11dangergrrl: don't know if its true but in life i believe anything is possible, i mean in school in primary school at least we never learned about there being 100 tornadoes all at once and the past couple months in the states we have been getting 100 tornadoes at once which to me is crazy weather06:45
dangergrrlif you leave the reptillians out of it i have concerns there may be some truth to it06:45
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dangergrrlart bell and alex jones would have you believe all recent us presidents have been reptiles wearing latex human suits06:47
dangergrrloh and charlie sheen06:47
dangergrrlbut he admitted he is on crack06:47
ghostnik11alex jones is the man but not everything he says is true, you have to take it as a grain of salt06:47
dangergrrli think some of it is true06:47
dangergrrlthe riddle is how much06:48
ghostnik11good point06:48
dangergrrlif you want to hide the truth you feed it to a nutjob noone will believe06:48
DocScrutinizer51he part about crack might be true06:48
dangergrrli think charlie sheen really is on crack06:49
dangergrrli believe there really was nanothermite residue at "gorund zero"06:49
ghostnik11dangergrrl most likely cocaine which is the drug of choice for rich celebs and people on wall street06:49
dangergrrli believe osama bin laden knew too much to risk taking him alive06:49
dangergrrli think he had something to do with 9/1106:50
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dangergrrlbut someone in the government had to have been involved06:50
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ghostnik11what did he know? i mean they were looking for him for a long time, i think there was no way osama was going to be trial by jury, what would he say?06:51
dangergrrlobl was unarmed orders were to kill not capture06:51
dangergrrlwe could have taken him to nuremburg06:51
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dangergrrlbut bush and obama should go too06:52
dangergrrland blair06:52
ghostnik11that is strange to me though, why was he unarmed i mean didn't he know the usa was coming for him, with full force06:52
dangergrrlafter 10 years?06:52
dangergrrlif you go underground06:53
dangergrrland they do not find you after 10 years06:53
dangergrrlyou would relax some06:53
ghostnik1110 years man, i wanted to know how the hell he was hiding so well, we have satellites that can track every move and this man can stay hidden for 10 years?06:53
dangergrrlabby hoffmanś book on the time he spent underground is amazing06:53
dangergrrlthe fbi 10 most wanted list is propaganda06:54
dangergrrlif you are hiding and appear on it06:54
dangergrrlit means they think they have you06:54
ghostnik11i figured there was no way anyone can hide from usa government, its the usa government they will hunt anyone down and find them look at wesley snipes who didn't pay taxes, usa went to his swiss bank accounts with money and talked to swiss government and bam they got his money and put him in jail06:55
dangergrrl(i think it was "Soon To Be A Major Motion Picture"/Abby Hoffman)06:56
dangergrrlone has to wonder06:56
dangergrrlare they really less competent or capable than one would think06:57
dangergrrlor were they not trying06:57
DocScrutinizer51they didn't want to06:58
dangergrrli think osama bin laden took credit for wtc after the fact because he wanted the notoreity06:58
DocScrutinizer51hell, how to sell Irak to the masses - when bin laden been caughr06:58
dangergrrlthe other things that i am sure he was involved with he could have been convicted of06:59
dangergrrlwhat if they put hime on trial for 9/11 and he actually did not plan that one?06:59
ghostnik11well why wouldn't they want to, i mean osama i feel should have been found the next day and we shouldn't have had to go to war b/c of osama with 2 countries, we should have just sent elite teams like we did from beginning and capture him within a couple weeks or months but not 10 years06:59
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ghostnik11dangergrrl: then its back the drawing boards to find out who really did it07:00
ghostnik11but he took credit for doing it07:00
dangergrrlit fit with his agenda to be credited for it07:00
dangergrrlwhether he did it or not07:01
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DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: where's the profit in that?07:01
DocScrutinizer51for industry07:01
dangergrrli do not know what really happened and the people who know for sure are not talking07:01
ghostnik11well one things for sure all troops should be home resting, not at war? since osama bin hidden is found and dead07:01
dangergrrli do not buy the official story07:01
dangergrrlghostnik11: that is what i hope will come of this07:02
dangergrrlbut the troops will not come home from afghanistan until mid 2012 i bet07:02
dangergrrljust in time for the election07:03
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ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: well your right about that the war industrial complex companies are making a fortune but at the people of the usa's expense b/c we have to pay bill through taxes that why i don't think we as a country should put our own people in danger by going to war b/c we lose money and might lose our own people's lives07:03
dangergrrlmaybe i just watch too much07:03 is great07:03
dangergrrlit is russian propaganda07:04
dangergrrlbut i love it07:04
dangergrrlthey convinced me that the entire cold war was because of the evil usa and uk07:04
ghostnik11dangergrrl: tell u what if the troops come home in time for re-election then your right about everything you said b/c that's too well timed for current administration07:05
dangergrrland i saw the vistory day parade in red square07:05
ghostnik11dangergrrl: if the troops come home for 2012, why couldn't they come back now07:05
dangergrrli do not know what is up with the bilderburg group07:06
dangergrrli believe they exist07:06
dangergrrli believe hillary and obama slipped away from campaign commitments to go to a meeting07:06
ghostnik11well there have always been secret societies since god knows when, i believe the exist, and i believe they are powerful in terms of certain things. like elections and other stuff that involves high ranking officials07:07
dangergrrli do not know that they have plans for mass murder or enslavement07:07
dangergrrlall of this information is out there07:07
dangergrrlsome is true and some is false07:07
dangergrrlhave you seen "the yes men save the world07:08
ghostnik11yeah well i have the internet to help thanks for the information like stuff like that b/c i know for a fact regular news wouldn't bring stuff like that07:08
ghostnik11the yes men save the world? no? whats that07:08
dangergrrlit is a film on vodo07:09
DocScrutinizer51do you really need anything more than your own common sense to see the truth?07:09
dangergrrl or i think07:09
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: no but its good when you see what you always knew or thought would happen07:09
dangergrrlDocScrutinizer51: you know there is a xephyr/virtualbox issue?07:10
dangergrrleach blames the other07:10
DocScrutinizer51this applies for every BS nowadays. You can find literally everything in internet07:10
dangergrrlxephyr will not work in a client with virtualbox guest editions07:11
DocScrutinizer51dangergrrl: nothing known07:11
dangergrrland some of the sdk apps are hard coded for unix sockets07:11
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dangergrrlif you remove guest additions it works07:11
dangergrrlcan not just run xephyr in the host and use ipaddr:207:12
dangergrrli wanted to try to fix it myself before i asked anyone for help07:13
dangergrrli found a workaround07:13
dangergrrlbut sadly the virtualbox and xephyr folks are too busy pointing fingers at each other to actually fix the problem if i want it to work right i have to find the bug myself07:14
ghostnik11dangergrrl: thanks for making me aware of the yes men fix the world will watch it and thanks everyone else for information and good conversation on different topics07:14
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dangergrrlone of the many articles i found on it07:15
dangergrrlDocScrutinizer51: i wanted it in the irc log that this was a known issue with workaround, is our irc log indexed by google?07:17
dangergrrlgood then i do not need to post on tmo or anything :)07:17
dangergrrli don't actually have an account yet i have not needed to post07:18
dangergrrli will have one07:20
dangergrrlwhen i have code to contribute07:20
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SpeedEvilOr fix the wiki07:22
dangergrrldoes the wiki actually cover installing the sdk in virtualbox with 32 bit ubuntu?07:23
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psycho_oreoswoot, USB networking finally working properly on both N900 :D08:39
psycho_oreosyou have two or more N900?08:40
psycho_oreosmaybe not I suppose :)08:42
prontoi have one n90008:42
prontodont really use it much anymore08:43
psycho_oreosso what do you use now?08:43
prontothe atrix08:44
psycho_oreosandroid =_=08:44
prontogot tired of being stuck on 2.5g honestly08:44
prontoplus it has a finger print scanner o_o08:45
psycho_oreosI think that's a problem with the carrier if you're stuck with 2.5G08:45
prontoyeah att's freq for 3g is something that the n900 does not support08:45
prontoplus, i have '4g' , and a phone thats like 1/3rd as thick08:48
psycho_oreostoo bad it doesn't have a hardware keyboard and a puny 16GB internal storage :) probably also has locked bootloader08:50
psycho_oreoss/and a/and has a/08:51
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: too bad it doesn't have a hardware keyboard and has a puny 16GB internal storage :) probably also has locked bootloader08:51
pronto*shrugs* its a lot faster, swype is decent enough08:52
prontoi do miss a lot of the things maemo had though08:53
psycho_oreoswell without a doubt it probably will be, dual core 1GHz processor and has google's backing08:53
prontothe camera is horrid comapred to the n900 though08:53
prontothen again the n900 has one of the best cell phone camerss i've seen08:54
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psycho_oreosI've heard better cameras are on other phones apart from N900 but meh08:57
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KilrooI think I recall Nokia had one Symbian phone with an 8 megapixel camera, and I think one other phone matched that and someone put out one with a 12...those are the only ones better than the n900's I recall hearing about.09:04
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psycho_oreosN8 has 12MP camera iirc09:15
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robbiethe1stHello all10:45
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robbiethe1stHm, so I'm messing with HEN, and a serial adaptor, and I can't quite get it to work. Dmesg reports: "pl2303 ttyUSB0: pl2303_open - failed submitting read urb, error -19"11:05
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robbiethe1st*phew*. good. I just made a big mistake, but fortunately it didn't damage anything. I'm /very/ glad now that the n900's charger's rated for 20V maximum imput.11:37
robbiethe1st...Because I just plugged it into a 12V source accidentally11:37
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cityligh1sso its sunday in munchen11:52
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dm8tbrI believe it's sunday pretty much everywhere else on this planet by now too.11:53
cityligh1swell I wasnt around this channel much11:57
cityligh1sand there where a few ppl from munich here11:57
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cityligh1sI am now seeking a breakfest place11:58
cityligh1sany advice?11:58
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dm8tbrhaven't been down there in a few years12:02
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ShapeshiftercityLights: dude12:28
ShapeshiftercityLights: sorry for not answering the PMs, I've been on travels through asia.12:28
ShapeshifterI'm back now.12:28
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psycho_oreosany of you guys that never used USB networking before? if so, can you please pastebin me your /etc/network/interfaces file?12:31
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psycho_oreosCor-Ai, thanks (apologies for that PM thingy :) got sick of random people PMing without permission)12:35
Cor-Aipsycho_oreos: haha np!12:35
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psycho_oreosCor-Ai, creating a patch file to make my life a little easier :)12:43
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cityligh1sok I am back13:03
cityligh1sgreat wether in munchen13:03
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MohammadAGanyone good at C?13:04
MohammadAGdbusdispatcher.cpp: In member function 'void Maemo::DBusDispatcher::setupDBus()':13:05
MohammadAGdbusdispatcher.cpp:474: error: 'g_main_context_get_thread_default' was not declared in this scope13:05
MohammadAGI can't figure out why I get that, even though glib.h is included13:06
psycho_oreoshaha I know very little C, but afaict that's C++ you are meddling around there. Of course its only different in terms of OOL usage between both13:07
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, g_main_context_whatever is glib/C stuff13:08
MohammadAGii  libglib2.0-dev                       2.20.3-1maemo5+0m5                   Development files for the GLib library13:08
MohammadAGcrap :/13:08
MohammadAGQt 4.8 requires headers from 2.2213:09
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, no what I meant was the filename :) that's the only thing I can see how they different but apart from that I know very little C let alone to tell much of the difference between C and C++ coding styles13:09
psycho_oreosin other words I'm only picking out negligible issues that one usually wouldn't fuss too much over13:10
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MohammadAGcopying over what compiled13:12
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chem|stgoooooooog mooorning maemo13:20
MohammadAG didn't turn out to be a stupid idea after all13:20
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psycho_oreoshah! revisiting the old hack I got to get ja_JP to work on that tmo thread shows how vague I was back then :|13:30
chem|stREADY! FIGHT! talk about abill in closed forums started off again13:32
robbiethe1stClosed forums?13:35
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NIN101leaked :P13:41
* SpeedEvil sighs at keyboards.13:41
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chem|strobbiethe1st: we mods have an invisible forum to discuss&track issues (not only people)13:45
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chem|strobbiethe1st: primary goal is to act similar and as group and track infractions13:46
robbiethe1stMakes sense...13:47
chem|stbarely used but helpfull in some cases13:48
robbiethe1stYea; like mod forums everywhere13:48
robbiethe1stNow that I know they exist, now I just need to become a mod ;)13:49
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chem|strobbiethe1st: they aren't very interessting13:50
robbiethe1stTrue enough I suppose.13:50
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compengican i install maemo sdk without scratchbox?14:14
lcukcompengi, that is like a cream egg without the creme14:16
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MoonTigerhi guys :)14:24
MoonTigerno MUFC fans here i hope :)14:24
MoonTigermanchester united14:24
MohammadAGMan U I guess14:24
MohammadAGnot a fan of barrcelona, so ... ;P14:25
MoonTigeri went to a local bar to watch the game and the ppl went crazy :)14:25
BCMMgiven the level of geek in here, i would predict a greater than average proportion of people who do not support a football team14:25
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MoonTigerme either but the night was a fun night14:25
MoonTigerwell anyways... geek stuff14:26
MoonTigerhow do i see the output from ULOG_DEBUG_L in sb?14:26
BCMMdoesn't maemo SDK typically refer to scratchbox?14:27
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psycho_oreosno I hardly watch football, let alone any sports :P14:27
* psycho_oreos goes back to getting ja_JP locales to work14:27
BCMMout of interest, what other kinds of ja_ exist?14:30
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psycho_oreosja is just Japanese literally.. and the locales weren't ported for use with PR1.3, so there's lots of things one needs to amend to get it to work properly (even though the translation itself is rather incomplete)14:32
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MoonTigeranybody have an idea how i can see the output of ULOG_DEBUG_L ?14:41
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* alterego contemplates deleting his TMO account14:46
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MohammadAGalterego, you can't do that14:49
alteregoWatch me :P14:50
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psycho_oreosany of you guys created locales before? I need to figure out apart from regenerating locale-archive, what is required to get Language & region (under Settings) for the locales to show up? I'm sure the obvious solution is reboot but other international locales have managed to have their entry and I'm sure without requiring reboot14:54
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, there's a command for it, I remember it when I helped with the ar-sy locale14:55
MohammadAGerr, sorry, psycho_oreos14:56
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# add_remove_language14:56
MohammadAGUsage: add_remove_language [remove|add] language_CODE14:56
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, hmm I'll give that a try, thanks a bunch!14:57
psycho_oreoshmm doesn't quite work lol, says the language is in the system. I guess that might just be the frontend to localesdef -a14:58
psycho_oreosthing is that Device Language shows up only 3 entries [English (United Kingdom), English (United States of America) and Français (France)]14:59
psycho_oreosbah thanks for the heads up MohammadAG, I had a poke at it. I didn't get far, stringed the binary to try and source its roots and its pointed to gconf. Checked gconf for any possible clues but got nothing lol15:08
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, do you have your language under /usr/share/locale/?15:09
MohammadAGwith a code like this xx_XX15:09
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, yup and also in /opt/maemo/usr/share/locale15:09
psycho_oreosits ja_JP, I regenerated locale-archive via: localedef -f UTF-8 -i ja_JP ja_JP.utf-815:10
psycho_oreoson my other N900, without regenerating locale-archive or even installing n900-extra-locales-jajp I get way more options inside Device Language15:10
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psycho_oreosit is funny to note that the locale is mentioned in gconf, for me it appears alongside with zh_CN,zh_HK,zh_TW15:11
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* psycho_oreos is thinking about trying the most dumbest method but probably the foolproof method of checking if that locales will be available.. that is to reboot the device.15:13
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psycho_oreosnope that failed.. wonder what I did historically lol15:22
RiDYou're talking to yourself? :o15:22
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psycho_oreosyes, I'm having such a great time creating a monologue. Must be becoming a broken record player :þ15:26
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* alterego has the wetab os running on his exo :)15:27
psycho_oreoswetab? exo?15:28
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alteregoNow if only I could find an xterm15:29
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* RiD has double vision.15:31
RiDThe funny thing of this IRC chat is that there are loads of people connected, but most of them are sleeping (??)15:33
RiDSorry, i mean IRC channel*15:34
dm8tbrno, but why should we all fill the channel with meaningless noise. you're new to IRC aren't you?15:35
psycho_oreosthere are bots, there are people who live in different timezones and there are those with whom are preoccupied with whatever they are doing to fill their time15:35
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psycho_oreosif we're all active, I'm sure this channel would be noisy as hell, your questions would be scrolled out of your site in no time.. and if someone posted an answer during that busy time, you'll have fun scrolling up to see what was the answer15:36
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: if we're all active, I'm sure this channel would be noisy as hell, your questions would be scrolled out of your sight in no time.. and if someone posted an answer during that busy time, you'll have fun scrolling up to see what was the answer15:36
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RiDHehe, that makes sense. Yes i'm a bit new to IRC's, I've only been on gaming IRCs and they are totally different (it's usually a mess)15:59
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cityligh1sso , is there anyone in munich?16:16
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psycho_oreosI wish I was16:17
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cityligh1sdont know why I keep getting disconected16:57
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cityligh1sanyway I am using o2 hdspa and its fine16:57
cityligh1slove sip16:57
cityligh1sppl can call me in over this voip16:57
cityligh1s~seen lardman16:58
infobotlardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 50m 26s ago, saying: 'night all'.16:58
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mr_jrtArrg. I seem to have invoked the17:15
mr_jrtN900 boot louckup17:15
mr_jrtBrief dots...then backlit blackness17:16
mr_jrtIs there anyway to see what the actual problem is?17:17
cehtehmr_jrt: power kernel?17:21
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ChoomI have that issue sometimes, but it's consistent and I've had it ever since I bought the phone17:25
Choomit never boots the first time17:25
Choomonly the second17:25
mr_jrtOnly thing I've done that's even remotely dodgy was to install syslog, then uninstall it. I then moved /var/log to /opt/var/log and added a symlink to prevent rootfs filling up if I forgot to remove syslog next time.17:27
psycho_oreosI think that's where you borked it, I've done that before17:30
mr_jrtReflashing isn't a big problem...but I'd really like the "/home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger" directory. I'm guessing if I reflash the rootfs, that wipes that out?17:30 hindsight, the optify log should have probably set of alarm bells that the logs can't go on another partition as there aren't any for that log17:31
mr_jrt(when it starts up)17:31
psycho_oreosreflashing fiasco/combined shouldn't affect /home/user17:33
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* alterego just purchased a mini HDMI-C -> HDMI-A for his exo :)17:52
mr_jrtHow right you are. Phew.17:53
alteregoDocScrutinizer: there's an interesting meego project you may be interested in.17:53
alteregoHardware related17:54
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alteregoThere's been some talk exploring the possibility of creating a community driven device.17:54
mr_jrtIronically, I was avoiding backupmenu on my main N900 as I didn't want anything that could compliate boot and break things. Might have to make another exception now ;)17:54
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alteregoWith an investor ..17:54
DocScrutinizerbeen there done that, 1000 times too often17:55
DocScrutinizeranyway, count on me17:55
alteregoWe have an investor17:55
DocScrutinizerwe had as well, at OM17:55
alteregoBut yeah, thought you might be interested.17:55
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alteregoStill very early days yet, I'll keep you posted as things start shaping.17:55
DocScrutinizerthanks a lot, very interesting17:56
DocScrutinizeryou're lucky, I'm vacant atm ;-D17:57
alteregoCurrently I think the idea is to use some reference platform, but still unclear.17:57
alteregoOh, definitely ARM too ;)17:58
DocScrutinizerif you want to go not tooooo adventurous, then even keep the arch (OMAP)17:59
alteregoI think I'll be pushing OMAP for sure17:59
alteregoWe need to reduce the work involved in keeping an adaptation N900 like17:59
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MoonTigerhi guys :)18:01
MoonTigercan anybody point me somewhere that explains how to see the DEBUG messages while my app is running in sb?18:02
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DocScrutinizeralterego: is your investor prepared to go up to the 10^6USD range?18:09
alteregoI'm gonna leave that to him.18:10
DocScrutinizeranything less is prone to fail18:10
alteregoWe're not looking at a mass market device.18:10
alteregoWe're looking at a developer handset platform18:10
alteregoSo maybe 10-100k units18:10
DocScrutinizerthe issue with hw is that mass market doesn't really make the big diff18:10
alterego(I'm guessing here)18:10
DocScrutinizer10k are already MP btw18:11
DocScrutinizerthe rest is just feeding the sales dudes with enough cookies18:11
alteregoWell, hardware isn't exactly my speciality ;)18:11
DocScrutinizerthe magic limit is somewhere between 10 and 100018:12
alteregoHe obviously wants to make his money back, but I don't think he's interested in profit18:12
DocScrutinizermore next to 500 than to 5018:12
DocScrutinizerI got a lil bit of RL experience with this stuff - you're free to ping me (or send a flight ticket) anytime18:13
alteregoLike I said, early days, but you didn't pop into my mind when we were discussing this.18:14
DocScrutinizerthat's been a failure. I probably even could bring in the beter 10% of OM experience staff18:16
DocScrutinizerbuilding hw is an ongoing process over there, and there are some contacts and cute people, which I might tease18:17
DocScrutinizer( of curse me being the cutest of them all, when it comes to designing hw ;-P )18:19
DocScrutinizeralterego: you should talk to your peers/group/whatever now, as many really fundamental and hurting conceptual ooopses happen at early planning stage18:21
DocScrutinizeralterego: isn't this a topic for #meego-arm, #meego, or a private /query ?18:23
alteregoProbably, I was just mentioning it, you're the one that started getting into a deep discussion :P18:23
DocScrutinizeror any ##channel18:23
alteregoI'll keep you informed, the real discussions will probably start next week.18:24
alteregoAnd in the public18:24
DocScrutinizeralterego: you got me excited about it18:24
alteregoSo I'll ping you when something happens18:24
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alteregoAnyway, I'm gonna play with my exo18:24
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕18:25
alteregoexo pc slate :P18:26
alteregoaka wetab reference tablet18:26
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mr_jrt<cityligh1s> If you mean disconnected from IRC, then I started getting it a lot on here. I found something saying that Freenode doesn't do the ping/pong thing properly, and they supplied a script that pings on connect or somesuch to keep the connection active. Fixed it for me.18:29
mr_jrtAh, here it is:
DocScrutinizerduh, what?18:33
Choomthe old ircd did not ping clients18:33
Choomyou ghosts would stay online forever if they were idling outside of channels, or at least until wallops or any kind of global messages were sent18:34
mr_jrtI dunno. Not much of an IRCer. Just using an old mIRC version I have around. I was getting disconnected every 5 minutes or so...which grew very tiresome when looking for activity after much idling.18:35
theoriginalgrialterego: How is the exopc display when using in the garden (shade)?18:35
alteregoI've not really tested it, hang on18:36
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Cor-Aipsycho_oreos: haha ok,18:54
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DocScrutinizerChoom: isn't it standard for *each* end to ping the other with keep-alives?18:58
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DocScrutinizerif only to keep sessions alive on NAT18:59
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ChoomDocScrutinizer: I have no clue, but the old ircd didn't, and along with causing ghosts to stay online forever it also caused problems with NAT; the current ircd doesn't have that issue anymore, though as I understand it the pings ae kinda low freq so they may still cause issues with NAT19:40
DocScrutinizerindeed, aiui they changed ping interval for freenode lately (some 12 months ago), from 10 -> 2 min. Or was it other way around?19:42
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SiceloChoom: i don't know too much about irc, but every pc in swaziland is behind nat, afaict, and i have never had any issues19:42
Siceloexcept with sending/receivering files via dcc19:43
Choomif you are on active channels it is unlikely to affect you19:43
Choomthe problems only manifest on idle connections19:43
FIQ|n900Hi. Now it's the 2nd time a SMS don't arrive at my side. Just wonder before i proceed, is this N900 or my provider's fault (or is it possible that it can be any of them)?19:44
Siceloyour sms center number correctly set?19:44
FIQ|n900It works, not just always, so yeah19:44
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FIQ|n900Also, one time following thing happened recently: I got a SMS, readed it, etc, all fine. Then N900 crash rebooted (as happens sometimes), and I ended up getting it again (but I didn't end up having 2 of them - the first just disappeared)19:46
Siceloidk FIQ|n90019:52
Sicelowhat did u do 1st timeto make it work fine again/19:53
Sicelo/s/timeto/time to/19:53
Sicelos/timeto/time to/19:53
infobotSicelo meant: /s/time to/time to/19:53
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DocScrutinizerFIQ: hildon-notifications use a db to pop up that "new SMS" notifier. On a crash this db might not update correctly and so the same notification show again after boot. That doesn't mean the SMS got transmitted OTA 2 times20:15
DocScrutinizerif an SMS doesn't arrive that's usually carrier's fault20:16
Neccmost providers sends out the SMS only once, whenever the device conformed the receive or not20:17
DocScrutinizerSMS also time out (sender of SMS may select an expiry period, also may request for delivery notification)20:17
NeccSMS timeout is typically weeks or even months20:17
DocScrutinizermeh, 1 week max afaik20:18
Neccoperator depedent20:18
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Neccmy operator stores up to 3 months (aked customer service)20:18
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DocScrutinizerhmm, my 10y-old Nokia 6210 had a setting for expiry time of SMS. Can't find anything like that on N900 - as usual :-/20:22
Neccpoint of that?20:22
Neccnot just N900 doesn't support such thing, same applies to my symbian devices20:23
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DocScrutinizersometimes it feels like N900 designers just specified things they used in their own daily usage pattern, rather than looking at any sane example or spec for finding out about what's mandatory or even standard20:24
DocScrutinizerprominent example: starhash20:24
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DocScrutinizeraka GSM service codes20:24
DocScrutinizer"divert on busy? WTF?!"20:25
Neccforward if no reply...20:25
Neccbut hey, they made *#06# work :P20:26
DocScrutinizerprobably just because they'd not pass FCC cert otherwise20:26
NeccFCC checks software too?20:27
DocScrutinizeryou bet20:27
NIN101There was a pretty cool vulnerable on a Nokia Phone afaik, DoS over SMS. It caim never to the point where the Device would acknowledge the receivment of the SMS, so ones it rebooted and logged in to the GSM again, the provider would usually send the SMS again...20:27
DocScrutinizerthere were several those glitches. Another one iirc was to send a SMS with a special char sequence that somehow fsckd up the phone20:28
NIN101yes, afaik there was a talk about it on the 27c320:28
NeccSiemens S60... send a special SMS -> brickphone!20:29
MohammadAG~seen Venemo20:30
infobotvenemo <> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 4h 50m 19s ago, saying: '~seen zehjotkah'.20:30
Neccshall i check if on MSN?20:31
DocScrutinizerlo MohammadAG20:32
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MohammadAGhey DocScrutinizer20:42
Robot101the dependencies on maemo are such a trainwreck, I can't install bluemaemo without some libeina crap and removing ogg support for gstreamer. boggle20:42
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DocScrutinizernow when YOU say that...20:44
maybeHere..ooO(debian-based, allright)20:44
DocScrutinizer...I gather it's just useless to try to help20:44
DocScrutinizeryou for sure know your way around, and it's quite certainly completely wrecked if you say there are those issues20:45
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Robot101yeah it's more, I don't quite have the energy to try and debug at the moment20:46
Robot101something is whacked20:46
DocScrutinizerhi btw20:46
Robot101hi o/ :) I only want bluemaemo so I can type in my details on the mac so I can buy portal 220:46
Robot101now I got my projector back from repair :)20:47
Robot101unforutnately my bluetooth kbd has run out of batteries so I'm waiting for them to recharge...20:47
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* MoonTiger walks in and waves21:24
MoonTigerhi guys21:24
MoonTigernobody home?21:25
* MoonTiger sighs21:25
nox-moin MoonTiger21:25
MoonTigeryou wouldnt happen to know anything about signond would you?21:26
nox-not really sorry21:26
nox-hm theres a comma missing there i guess...21:27
MoonTigerok thnx anyways :)21:27
nox-not really, sorry21:27
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* lcuk moons at wavetiger21:35
MoonTigerhey lcuk21:39
MoonTigerjust banging my head against a wall21:39
MoonTigerdidnt see you21:39
lcuk:( poor wall21:39
lcukwhat are you stuck with?21:39
* MoonTiger sighs21:40
MoonTigersharing plugin21:40
lcukand what specifically is your problem with it?21:40
* MoonTiger look sat the alphabeticized list of problems....21:40
MoonTigerwell right now i cant get signond to run without errors21:41
lcukis signond something you wrote?21:41
* lcuk is ignorant of what signond is21:41
MoonTigerlcuk, no its apparently the signon daemon that runs onb the actual tablets but in sbv you need to start it manually signond &21:42
MoonTigerbut it fails21:42
lcukif it runs on the tablets it should already be running?21:43
MoonTigerno according to the docs you have to start it manually21:43
lcukso this is something you cannot test within scratchbox21:43
MoonTigerapparently you can21:43
lcukor are having trouble testing21:43
MoonTigerthe sharing set up runs but fails to send anything because of a) abouve21:43
lcukhmm I owuld say: have you tested it on device itself21:44
MoonTigerno ... its totally not ready for that yet21:44
MoonTigerim just tryng to get it to talk to the internet21:44
lcuklets go back a bit: you said "signond &" files21:46
lcukwhat specific error messages do you get21:46
lcukduring the course of trying to run this21:46
MoonTigersignond[1607]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - signond: cannot setup proper DB access rights: 121:46
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lcukit might be other misc random planet alignments went wrong too21:46
lcukok MoonTiger which user are you running it as?21:47
lcukhave you tried "fakeroot signond &"21:47
lcukor similar?21:47
MoonTigeri try as me and as fakeroot21:47
MoonTigerboth fail21:47
MoonTigerand the docs dont mention fakeroot21:47
lcukyeah i know21:48
* MoonTiger laughs21:48
lcukhm on my scratchbox I havent even got signond21:48
MoonTigerawesome hey?21:48
MoonTigernot hard to figure why nokia went so far down lately *sigh*21:49
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MacerMoonTiger: thats what i said about their horrible sdk21:49
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Maceri think they just slapped it together and shoved it out there21:50
Macereven the vm image is crap21:50
MoonTigeri dont think its even finished actually21:50
lcukwell scratchbox does handle most of this stuff and the emulator does work, I have just never seen anyone playing with sharing services like htis21:50
Macerit sure isn't21:50
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MoonTigeri think they just bent over for MS and dropped everything, including their pants21:50
* lcuk knows of only a couple of people who might even know21:50
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lcukbut I dont know if they ever used scratchbox21:51
Macerwell. they dont support maemo anymore21:51
Macernot for a long time21:51
Macerlcuk: no community sdk?21:51
Maceris it possible to make one?21:51
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MoonTigerthis is why i got fed up with my N81021:51
MoonTigerthe N900 hardware is great (apaet from the usb)21:52
MoonTigerbut the dev stuff?21:52
lcukMoonTiger, what are you actually writing?21:52
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MoonTigeri dont think ive ever tried to work with such a broken tool chain21:52
MoonTigeri want to write a sharing plugin for my website21:52
lcuksounds reasonable21:53
lcukftp uploader type thing?21:53
MoonTigeri wrote one for symbian ... one for android ... i figured the N900 should be easy enough21:53
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MoonTigera piccie uploader type thing21:53
lcukMoonTiger, I believe someone already did write a configurable one21:54
MoonTigerthe pavo-pavo-pavo-whatever one?21:54
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MoonTigerbut i want to write one ... it cannot be that hard21:55
lcukI know21:55
lcukthere are a large number of sharing services though21:55
MoonTigerits kinda like my own personal hello world21:55
lcukie, they have somehow managed it21:55
lcukeveryone has their birdsong21:55
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MoonTigeri have some example code but that doesnt tell me how to get f***ing signond working *sigh*21:55
MoonTigerbut this is why we're geeks right? to beat our head against walls untill something sinks in :)21:56
MoonTigerlcuk, are you still debeloping for N900?21:56
MoonTigerdeveloping too21:56
lcuki have MeeGo n900-DE running on my n90021:57
MoonTigerhows that working out for you?21:57
lcukI test/workon/faff/discuss/cunjure up stuff on it21:58
lcukit is looking a hell of a lot better now than it did 6 months ago21:58
MoonTigeris it functional21:58
lcukvsync tearing patches, meego tablet ux, real QML apps etc21:59
MoonTigerso you can use it for your main device?21:59
lcukI keep reaching for it for tasks but not everything works21:59
lcukI purposefully keep it within hands reach, it has gotten stable enough to perform actions22:00
lcukand I am looking for ways to update daily (ssu) rather than having to reflash22:00
theoriginalgrioh since you're talking about qml apps ... is the flash memory of the n900 so much slower than on the iphone? If you've seen the video on youtube with qml on the iphone: it starts immediately, on my maemo n900 it loads a while22:00
lcukbecause once data gets onto the device and being filled in more than "I added 3 test contacts"22:00
nox-how many device do you have lcuk?22:00
nox-devices even22:01
lcuknox- that are in use, 2 in regular testing and 1 with broken usb22:04
nox-heh ok22:04
MoonTigerlcuk, you have the broken usb22:04
nox-yeah how do you charge that one, external charger?22:05
lcukyeah nox-, but I need usb working for data rather than batteries22:05
lcukMoonTiger, ^22:05
nox-i c22:05
* nox- must be lucky, my usb still works22:06
lcukthe one with broken usb was from lukes room22:06
* lcuk shakes walking stick at kids22:06
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lcukmy apps scale upwards22:07
MoonTigerthinkpad i see ;)22:08
lcukhmm that has broken screen atm22:09
* lcuk cannot wander round with that one22:09
MoonTigershame ... i only use thinkpads22:09
lcukI replaced the screen ok22:09
lcukseveral hundred parts22:09
lcukscattered on bed22:09
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lcukbut the inverter is broke too22:09
MoonTigerthey dont cost much tho right?22:09
lcukI hope it is the inverter anyway22:10
lcukif it is the ribbon cable that is worse22:10
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lcukTheXception|off, please show me where QML running on iphone?22:18
lcuksince QML is just a data set, if the QMLlauncher is running already and you open a small test, it should not be slow22:18
ruskiehmm wanted to use my old n95 for gps and music box type stuff on my bike with no sim... but can't get any gps lockon... fun... :(22:18
lcukbut if you are loading/opening the whole QML infrastructure to open a 1kb QML file it is understandable22:19
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dm8tbrruskie: most likely the gps chipset is deaf as a stone without access to AGPS data22:20
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ruskiedm8tbr, or the offline mode is keeping it offline22:21
ruskieso on to the next question... anyone managed to make an app for the N900 that would expose the GPS through bluetooth? so that one could pair it with other bluetooth devices?22:21
jacekowskilcuk: can you scale out as well?22:21
jacekowskilcuk: what have you broken?22:22
* MoonTiger goes back to fighting signond22:23
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MoonTigerMohammadAG, any ideas about signond ?22:24
lcukjacekowski, screen got damaged on the thinkpad22:24
jacekowskias in no backlight?22:24
jacekowskior nothing at all22:24
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MohammadAGWhat's signond?22:24
MoonTigerinside of sb22:25
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: for an occasional flashing it will "just work" if you take care about proper ESD protection (discharge all static before connecting... first touch metal to metal of both devices to connect)22:29
MohammadAGno, I meant what is it22:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, next CSSU will make you less worried about the CSSU22:31
MohammadAGwhich should tonight22:31
MohammadAGshould be*22:31
MoonTigerMohammadAG, its the sharing service sign on daemon22:33
MohammadAGoh, no idea22:34
MohammadAGfrals might know22:34
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: It's been a sure bet Nokia needs access to those signals during production process, without mating that friggin micro-USB22:39
DocScrutinizerI mentioned that here in this chan prior to that thread showing up, IIRC22:40
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ruskiehmm nice there is a bluetooth gps tool for the n9022:41
ruskieerm n90022:41
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ds3bluetooth gps tool ? where?22:41
ruskieas in to make the n900 act as a bluetooth/usb/network gps device22:42
FIQI will speak to my carrier if it happens again then (about SMS receviving problem)22:42
MoonTigeroh hey lcuk how do i get debug messages to show up on the terminal window?22:43
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ds3ruskie, I haven't seen that before. thanks!22:43
ruskieI just started looking for it22:43
ruskienow I might actually be able to use the n95 as a cheap display thingy for the phone while the n900 is nicely tucked somewhere more safe22:43
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MoonTigerf**k this is frustrating22:47
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MoonTigerhow do i get an xterm on the sb emulator?22:55
MoonTigeryah but how do i install it?22:56
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shanttuI ran into unmet depencies when upgrading smscon editor, any help?
MohammadAGwhy do you need an xterm22:56
MohammadAGjust use the scratchbox shell22:56
MoonTigerto see if there are some files missing22:56
* MoonTiger slaps head22:56
MohammadAGcehteh, osso-xterm isn't installed since you don't need it22:56
cehtehheh .. could be its long ago that i used the sdk only installed it 2 days ago22:57
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MoonTigerMohammadAG, how do i get log messages to show when my app runs?22:58
MohammadAGif your app logs they should just show there22:58
MohammadAGit's a normal shell22:58
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MohammadAGscratchbox shell22:58
MoonTigernothing shows up22:58
lcukMohammadAG, afaik MoonTiger is making a sharing plugin thingie22:58
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lcukie not a normal urnning app instance22:58
lcukrunning even22:59
MoonTigerno lcuk MoonTiger is breaking this desk up with my head22:59
cehtehMoonTiger: what kind of app? C/C++/Qt?22:59
MohammadAGoh, so how do you run it then?22:59
MoonTigersharing setup in control panel22:59
MoonTigeradd new account22:59
MohammadAGcehteh, I'd guess C, since that's the only API available22:59
cehtehcheckout my debugging and logging library :) .. i once compiled it on the n90022:59
MohammadAG(there are C++ wrappers but I haven't seen anyone using them)23:00
cehtehworked but i dont want to package it by myself23:00
MoonTigercehteh, is it ready to use on the n900 now?23:00
cehtehshould be23:00
lcukMoonTiger, :( please do not break the desk, seek to duplicate one of the existing open source sharing things23:00
cehtehif not blame me i'll fix then23:00
lcukfmms is python and has bindings to sharing service23:00
cehtehyou just have to build and install it23:00
lcukI believe23:00
MohammadAGi thought the syslog is shown on stdout/err23:01
MoonTigerlcuk, yes i am doing exactly that but the signond thing is broken and is preventing me from moving forward23:01
MoonTigerMohammadAG, well i must be doing something wrong then23:01
lcuktest on device23:01
lcukI always did all my testing directly there anyway23:01
* lcuk did not understand scratchbox much 23:02
MoonTigerlcuk, but even if it "runs" on the device i still need to be able to test it on the sb23:02
* MohammadAG never uses X86 scratchbox23:02
* MoonTiger sighs23:02
MoonTigerim beginning to think installing gcc on the n900 is the easiest way to go23:02
cehtehi should install the SDK on the device too .. chroot23:02
MohammadAGActually I did use it, before I had the device23:02
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MohammadAGcehteh, I haz that23:03
MohammadAGway too slow for Qt apps though23:03
lcukMoonTiger, :) it is easy, however the rest of the sdk (especially all hildon dependencies) makes it non trivial23:03
MoonTigerok i will start with a simpler regular app to make sure i understand the tool chain23:03
lcukMohammadAG, you did actual testing of qt apps on device didn't you?23:03
cehtehMohammadAG: would be nice to make a package out of it somehow, because i am lazy :P23:03
cehtehi dont program in Qt anyways :)23:04
MoonTigercehteh, your debug lib ... it runs as a service?23:04
MohammadAGcehteh, asked X-Fade about it once, he didn't reply23:04
MohammadAGWe need Nokia's approval to reupload their binaries23:04
cehtehMoonTiger: nope you link it to your application23:04
MohammadAGand installing binaries on the device is a b****23:04
MoonTigerok so i just build the lib and inc the headers as usua23:04
MohammadAGlcuk, only compiled them as a benchmark23:04
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cehtehinternally it logs everything to a ringbuffer (which you may turn persistent)23:05
MoonTigercan i see the log messages somewhere easy?23:05
MohammadAGcehteh, I think lcuk's liqflow compiled in 3 seconds?23:05
cehtehand then it dispatches logging to whatever you like, console, debugger, files, syslog etc23:05
MoonTigeri will give it a go23:05
lcukMohammadAG, and the qt app took nearly 2minutes I recall?23:05
MohammadAG3 or 423:06
cehtehcontrolled by a env var   NOBUG_LOG=something:TRACE,somethingelse:NOTICE@syslog etc23:06
MohammadAGthat was my mediaplayer23:06
MoonTigercehteh, so "set NOBUG_LOG=STDOUT" ?23:06
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* MohammadAG would use export23:07
cehtehNOBUG_LOG=something:TRACE   .. if you do a 'alpha' build it logs to console23:07
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MoonTigercehteh, you wrote this?23:07
cehtehit tries to give sane defaults23:07
MoonTigeri am ashamed to admit it but most of my c/c++ experience is from windows23:08
cehtehwhere 'something' is a flag/channel you have to define23:08
MoonTigerim not used to the gcc tool chains23:08
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cehtehMoonTiger: i am prolly later into cinema and back then in a few hour if you have any questions, you can nag me or subscribe its mailinglist23:08
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cityligh1shi again23:08
lcukMohammadAG, it was the one album art test app wasnt it?23:08
cityligh1s~seen lardman23:09
MohammadAGlcuk, nah, half working mediaplayer23:09
infobotlardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22h 1m 33s ago, saying: 'night all'.23:09
cehtehcityligh1s: tomorrow evening? :)23:09
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cityligh1sI seek help at muchen, can anyone recomend a cool place to dine?23:10
cehtehhofbräuhaus? :)23:10
cityligh1scehteh: hi there23:10
cehtehi dont know munich well23:10
cityligh1stime passed so fast, and 2morrow I am traveling to your town23:11
* MoonTiger goes off to get some bread and honey23:11
cityligh1scan you send me your number or gtalk?23:12
cehtehskype .. 'cehteh'23:12
cityligh1sthere whee sevral ppl from munchen here23:12
cehtehmy lumiera co developer is in munich23:12
cehtehcityligh1s: you use skype?23:13
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cityligh1syes. min23:13
cehtehi see :)23:13
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MoonTigeri think i need to go back to basics and learn the autotools stuff23:18
cityligh1sdoes anyone remeber how is from munchen here?23:18
cehtehMoonTiger: maybe you try scons, its little better23:18
cehtehi use autotools too, just a old bad habit23:18
MoonTigercehteh, does it run on maemo?23:19
cehtehits python prolly yes23:19
MoonTigeri think i should actually learn autotools tho ... its used everywhere23:19
cehtehok :)23:19
MoonTigeri dont like not understanding my tools properly23:19
* MohammadAG doesn't know auto* stuff23:19
MohammadAGmanual makefiles ftw23:20
cehtehwell i doubt anyone knows autotools fully :P23:20
MoonTigerMohammadAG, yah all that23:20
cehtehif you only program for one platform (or very similar ones) then plain makefiles are nice23:20
MoonTigerbut trying to write a simple app requires all that and etc etc23:20
cehtehif you can define to use 'gnu make' then you have quite some mightly stuff23:20
MohammadAGwhen I see I just run all auto* tools and hope it works23:20
cityligh1sMohammadAG: hi, did you that lardman offered to help port waze to maemo?23:20
MohammadAGWhat's waze?23:21
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MoonTigerMohammadAG, me too but when it doesnt you're screwed23:21
MoonTigerwaze is a crowd sourced gos navigator app23:21
MohammadAGMohammadAG, hasn't happened to me yet23:21
MohammadAGwtf xchat23:21
cehtehautotools is a bit awkward23:21 road navigation with traffic jam calc23:22
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MoonTigercehteh, th whole ./configure ... make ... make install is autotools yes?23:22
cehtehthats a free project (waze?)23:22
cityligh1sMoonTiger: how do YOU know waze?23:22
MoonTigercityligh1s, its on a lot of platforms and i read about a lot of stuff :)23:23
cehtehMoonTiger: uhm ... thats what the user sees .. as developer there is shockingly much more brokeness23:23
MohammadAGthat's for israel?23:23
cityligh1srecently also for germany23:23
cityligh1sand the us23:23
MoonTigercehteh, do you know a good resource for learning as much as i need to know?23:23
cityligh1sand australia23:23
cehtehMoonTiger: take a look like nobug is set up, its a relative small and straight project so you can learn from that23:23
MoonTigerok thnx23:23
cehtehand it uses 'non-recursive' builds thats really the way to go23:24
MohammadAGcityligh1s, what does it offer that a normal maps app doesn't?23:24
* MoonTiger ponders recursive builds and shdders23:24
cehteh('include' other files instead SUBDIRS=)23:24
cityligh1sits free and updated by the users23:24
cehtehthe SUBDIRS= things is verboten :P23:24
MoonTigerok good ... trying to read that stuff is a nightmare23:24
cehtehautotools is :)23:25
MohammadAGcityligh1s, besides that? Google Maps is also free23:25
cehtehand i am by no means expert with it23:25
cityligh1smust find a nice place to have dinner and say good buy to munchen23:25
MoonTigercityligh1s, i havent had dinner in munich so i cant help23:25
MohammadAGthe site sends me to the hebrew version, doesn't help me23:25
cityligh1sgoogle maps doent offer traffic updates23:25
MoonTigercehteh, thnx for all the help23:25
cityligh1sMohammadAG: use google translate23:26
MohammadAGyay, API is in english23:28
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cehtehhaha hebrew perl api ?23:29
telmichwie heißt der film, in dem jemand zum geburtstag so einen realitätsabgleich geschenkt bekommt?23:31
telmichund dann sich alles bei ihm im leben ändert und er zum schluß suizid beginnen muss23:31
cehtehso bye cinema23:33
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, CSSU Qt 4.7.0 with "some" fixes we need being uploaded23:44
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merlin1991MohammadAG: I want that package23:47
merlin1991NAO ;)23:47
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MohammadAGmerlin1991, uploading straight to CSSU23:55
MohammadAGthey take time23:55
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