IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-05-12

MohammadAG	that way you can't say you're under an NDA	00:00
thresh	ShadowJK: hey I don't want to bring my laptop with me on vacations	00:00
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: they quite usually are	00:00
ShadowJK	thresh, and I dont want waffles for breakfast?	00:00
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, so the NDA is under another NDA?	00:00
* MohammadAG plays inception sountrack		00:00
MohammadAG	sound*	00:01
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* SpeedEvil plays Tron soundtrack.		00:01
DocScrutinizer	no, the NDA sometimes is self-NDAing	00:01
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DocScrutinizer	not for the fact of its existence, but for all of the content	00:01
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: ?`	00:02
ZogG	MohammadAG i mean n900 pr1.2	00:02
ZogG	MohammadAG techion is good thing	00:02
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ZogG	MohammadAG though for computer science jerusalem one is better	00:03
DocScrutinizer	I've built up an unsatisfied desire to kick	00:03
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ZogG	RST38h, http://4pda.ru/2011/05/07/41666/	00:04
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ZogG	rusian tablet with meego/windows	00:04
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ZogG	DocScrutinizer kick me	00:04
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ZogG	i always here for you buddy	00:04
RST38h	ZogG: Another rebranded chinese product	00:05
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ZogG	everything is Chinese	00:05
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RST38h	ZogG: software probably copied from wetab	00:05
ZogG	the important thing that your children are not =)	00:05
ZogG	RST38h i dunno	00:05
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ZogG	damn they have one with 160-750 gb =)	00:06
RST38h	ZogG: From people claiming this to be a "Russian" product, I would expect a bit more than a bright box and a user's manual in Russian	00:06
ZogG	there are no russians products anymore you know	00:06
RST38h	ZogG: Stuff like mechanical and electrical design, nice software, etc	00:06
ZogG	the last ones were soviet	00:07
RST38h	ZogG: There are some.	00:07
RST38h	ZogG: Not this particular gadget though.	00:07
ZogG	RST38h coz smart people from russia are too smart to work for russia	00:07
ZogG	RST38h like what?	00:07
ZogG	maybe few ebooks	00:07
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ZogG	ok i'll g to sleep i think	00:09
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RST38h	Aha, people in the comments report that this is a product from Onkyo	00:11
ZogG	=0	00:11
ZogG	gonna go to sleep	00:12
ZogG	night kidos	00:12
DocScrutinizer	Onkyo? cooooool	00:14
DocScrutinizer	whatever it is	00:14
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nox-	onkyo was known for hifi gear at least once...	00:16
Creteil	Someone here running v47 kernel power from pali with Backported bq27x00_battery module (battery status) ?	00:17
* piggz has onkyo av receiver + speakers (watching matrix reloaded with it now!)		00:17
DocScrutinizer	I had an Onkyo amp that's been arguably the best amp I ever seen	00:17
nox-	heh	00:18
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RST38h	<sleep>	00:18
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DocScrutinizer	(back in 1985)	00:18
Creteil	allo ? no one running v47 kernel power from pali here ?	00:20
DocScrutinizer	from pali??	00:20
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ^^^	00:20
SpeedEvil	Creteil: Why do you care about battery module - there are userspace ways to get the battery status.	00:20
DocScrutinizer	what'S status with PK?	00:20
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Creteil	DocScrutinizer : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71879	00:21
DocScrutinizer	Creteil: bq27x00.ko is known to fsck bme	00:21
DocScrutinizer	always been like that	00:22
DocScrutinizer	so basically you don't want to `modprobe bq27x00`	00:22
Creteil	DocScrutinizer, what do you mean by 'fsck' ?	00:22
ShadowJK	mess up	00:22
DocScrutinizer	=break	00:22
DocScrutinizer	cause to segfault	00:22
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BCMM	Creteil: in addition to "file system check", it is colloquially used as a substitute curse	00:23
Creteil	DocScrutinizer, can you help me to explain that to pali on the thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71879 ?	00:23
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, v47 in devel	00:23
MohammadAG	pali's the new maintainer	00:23
DocScrutinizer	ok, so I have to dance/fsck with some dude named pali now	00:24
Creteil	DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG, please help me to explain to pali the patch he made is bad ...	00:24
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DocScrutinizer	I'd like to, dunno if I'm alert enough today	00:24
* DocScrutinizer yawns		00:24
MohammadAG	umm, if its not loaded by default nothing bad should happen	00:24
DocScrutinizer	lemme look at that friggin tmo thread	00:25
Creteil	DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG, read my post here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1004473&postcount=533 and say me if I am mad or not please :-)	00:25
MohammadAG	if not, /me gets the torches	00:25
DocScrutinizer	what's been the patch pali made?	00:25
Creteil	DocScrutinizer, yes	00:25
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, just cut out the middle man. :p	00:27
ShadowJK	I see I should still forget about cssu and related projects :)	00:27
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* piggz needs a pen and paper to scribble down which fields are being hashed, which arnt, and which will be hashed together, before my head explodes		00:28
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BCMM	piggz: pen... and paper?	00:29
ZogG	DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/nokia-n9-hits-the-fcc-packs-more-bands-than-a-rubber-tree/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+engadget%2FOzKy+%28Engadget%29&utm_content=Twitter	00:29
BCMM	i do not think i have carried these things since getting an n900	00:29
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: tried, no Nokians on #meego	00:29
piggz	BCMM: heh	00:29
BCMM	then again, my handwriting doesn't really work right	00:29
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, email council.	00:29
MohammadAG	ZogG, API works, not that much info is returned	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: though yes isn't quite an answer, I still think this patch looks kinda fishy, though maybe could work	00:30
BCMM	piggz: i am literally writing an application to handle my shopping lists, because i lose shopping lists that cannot be made to ring	00:30
ShadowJK	Looks like they ignore the issue of uncalibrated fuel gauge by reporting the uncalibrated values wihtout attempt to fix..	00:31
DocScrutinizer	but as mentioned the bq27x00.ko module is broken by design (nah, bme is broken by design)	00:31
BCMM	this evening, i'm going to find out how to get things into -devel	00:31
ShadowJK	ah well	00:31
piggz	BCMM: its quite easy	00:31
BCMM	i beg to differ.	00:31
BCMM	being able to package a .deb is a prerequisite, right?	00:32
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BCMM	done that, and it was confusing.	00:32
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: ok	00:32
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piggz	BCMM: well, yes....i guess that took my a little while, but im used ot it now...are you using qmake?	00:32
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BCMM	piggz: yeah	00:33
BCMM	it's ok, i've got the packaging bit working now, i think	00:33
BCMM	still not quite sure what the "workflow" should be	00:34
BCMM	especially for just doing a quick build without packaging so i can have a binary to quickly test	00:34
BCMM	debian/rules build often, but not always, says "make: Nothing to be done for `build'.", when i have actually made changes to the sources	00:35
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piggz	i just do all my testing on the desktop.....for quick and dirty packages i use the remote compiler	00:35
SpeedEvil	I suppose suggesting fcc on phone is sully.	00:35
SpeedEvil	gcc	00:35
Creteil	DAMN !!!	00:35
BCMM	SpeedEvil: g++, and qt headers	00:35
Creteil	Now my battery is fully charged	00:35
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BCMM	SpeedEvil: also, i've got a lovely workflow for doing it outside of the debian file structure	00:36
Creteil	lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_power_supply_battery_bq27200_0 \| grep battery.charge_level.percentage && lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/bme \| grep battery.charge_level.percentage	00:36
Creteil	battery.charge_level.percentage = 100 (0x64) (int)	00:36
SpeedEvil	Ah.	00:36
Creteil	battery.charge_level.percentage = 97 (0x61) (int)	00:36
Creteil	Where I can blacklist this f*****g driver ?	00:36
BCMM	SpeedEvil: got Kate set up to "make && scp binary user@n900:/dev/shm && etc., etc."	00:36
SpeedEvil	ah	00:36
BCMM	also got ssh connection sharing turned on, so i just keep an ssh connection open and it's practically instant	00:37
BCMM	basically, i hit alt-x and a couple of seconds later the app starts on the device	00:37
SpeedEvil	Has anyone else seen randomly sidconnecting from cell network, and SIM connection errors?	00:37
BCMM	but i can't make that work inside the packaging system because i end up having to uselessly make clean all the time	00:38
BCMM	so it takes ages	00:38
BCMM	piggz: sadly, i make too much use of rotation to really test on desktop	00:38
DocScrutinizer	Creteil: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1004498#post1004498 HTH	00:38
MohammadAG	can someone post https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/mce.ini#line491 somewhere and shut OS speculation people up? kthxbai	00:38
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BCMM	that, and keyboard slide events	00:39
BCMM	s/i /it /	00:40
piggz	now to brush up on my php for the service part....i'd better check whats on my server too, and its probably due and apt-get update	00:41
Creteil	ok problem solved with :	00:41
Creteil	echo "blacklist bq27x00_battery" >>/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist	00:41
Creteil	and rebooting ...	00:42
MohammadAG	hehe, 1337 sociality users	00:42
piggz	MohammadAG: it made my day today when i checked the download stats for space invaders and it was ~ 30000	00:43
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, randomly disconnecting from cell network, and crossed out sim? Check dmesg. The modem is crashing. It only got better after third trip or so to Nokia care when they replaced the device entirely.	00:43
MohammadAG	piggz, there's a lot of N900 users around	00:44
BCMM	anyone able to explain what the build-stamp target in debian/rules is?	00:44
SpeedEvil	hmm	00:44
MohammadAG	I'm pretty sure most don't know about tmo	00:44
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, there's a thread on tmo with people randomly flashing and reflashing and padding sim card holder with random crap	00:44
MohammadAG	BCMM, it creates a stamp file after building	00:44
piggz	MohammadAG: unfortunately, not one has clicked the 'donate' button!	00:44
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: padding diddn't seem to help	00:44
piggz	:)	00:44
BCMM	MohammadAG: what is a stamp file?	00:44
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, yeah because it's not the main issue	00:44
MohammadAG	I don't bother to include donate buttons :P	00:44
BCMM	i mean, i guess it's the empty file build-stamp, but what's it for?	00:45
MohammadAG	BCMM, empty file with a timestamp	00:45
BCMM	oh, fair enough	00:45
MohammadAG	time	00:45
DocScrutinizer	Creteil: ack. Please add this to my post	00:45
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, you can probably reproduce it by: remove backcover, carefully handle device so that battery doesn't fall out, pinch device in different locations, such as battery and h on keyboard	00:45
ShadowJK	and you'll soon see disconnection from cell network	00:45
ShadowJK	and crash in dmesg	00:45
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BCMM	MohammadAG: any idea how to convince debian/rules to rebuild modified sources, like a "normal" make would?	00:45
ShadowJK	there's a small delay between the cellmodem actually crashing/resetting/whatever and the UI noticing, though	00:46
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: At the moment it's putt-up-with-able. I have made a note to get it replaced before warranty.	00:46
BCMM	or am i doing this all wrong, and should basically just play with symlinks and build test binaries outside the debian packaging file structure?	00:46
SpeedEvil	99% of my use is for paypal key.	00:46
DocScrutinizer	padding SIM is voodoo	00:47
Creteil	DocScrutinizer, already done, thanks ...	00:47
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	00:47
MohammadAG	BCMM, -nc?	00:47
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MohammadAG	that means no clean	00:47
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ShadowJK	Probably the only reason padding works is because it accidentally and semi-permanently warps the PCB and/or components into a position where it works	00:47
BCMM	MohammadAG: as a flag to what?	00:48
ShadowJK	Well it doesn't work for everyone, and for me the problem became progressively worse over a few months.	00:48
MohammadAG	fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b -us -uc -nc	00:48
MohammadAG	BCMM, ^	00:48
BCMM	MohammadAG: oh, i just wanted a binary to play with, not a package	00:49
BCMM	i've been doing debian/rules build, to just build without packaging	00:50
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BCMM	but somehow that usually says there is nothing to be done even if you've changed the sources, and i don't know enough make to know why	00:50
MohammadAG	BCMM, well, just get it from debian/packagename/pathtobinary	00:51
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MohammadAG	or run debian/rules build-stamp	00:51
BCMM	MohammadAG: yeah, that's fine. the problem is that it doesn't know when it needs to rebuild	00:51
MohammadAG	I'm guessing that should work, since rules is just a makefile	00:51
BCMM	yeah, it should...	00:52
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BCMM	but i can edit the sources, re-run, and get "make: `build-stamp' is up to date."	00:52
BCMM	i think this is the point where i decide i'm probably abusing debian/rules and need to do test-builds in a different directory with symlinks to the source	00:52
MohammadAG	BCMM, then try debian/rules build	00:53
BCMM	same	00:53
BCMM	well, "make: Nothing to be done for `build'." at any rate	00:53
BCMM	(even after changing sources)	00:53
BCMM	only option is to clean and then re-run	00:54
Kilroo1	This is definitely providing me with some entertainment at my own expense	00:55
BCMM	Kilroo1: what is?	00:56
Kilroo1	Got the rescue initrd working by flashing from Windows, made it to the recovery console, which was what I was trying to get.	00:56
BCMM	huh. i don't understand this.	00:56
piggz	wooo, i communicated with web service....it didnt do anything, but that is a minor point	00:57
BCMM	build-stamp does "cd builddir && $(MAKE)"	00:57
nox-	Kilroo1, you tried flashing from ubuntu and it didnt work?	00:57
MohammadAG	BCMM, just run make	00:57
Kilroo1	It was at that point that I found out you can't type normally at the recovery terminal.	00:57
BCMM	manually doing "cd builddir && make" rebuilds correctly	00:57
MohammadAG	when you edit sources, it'll compile what changed	00:57
BCMM	MohammadAG: will do	00:57
Kilroo1	nox-: no, I tried flashing from Arch and it didn't work.	00:57
nox-	ah	00:57
BCMM	i posit that this confusion is caused by make calling another instance of make	00:57
BCMM	MohammadAG: thanks	00:58
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BCMM	(i know make should do that. i just didn't know that make-calling-make-again didn't :)	00:58
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Kilroo1	I'm probably now going to try to flash from Virtualbox, to save the trouble of going in the other room where my windows machine is (I was doing this on my break at work when I actually got to the terminal). But it was quite frustrating to get to the recovery terminal and then discover the problem with the keymap.	01:00
Kilroo1	Especially since I am currently still convinced that if I can edit genfstab.awk and rcS-late, I can render my device bootable again.	01:01
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DocScrutinizer	Kilroo1: ask MohammadAG - he's the magician of recovery-initrd keymap and other annoyances	01:12
DocScrutinizer	you actually can use recover-initrd, but you have to know quite a number of tricks to do so	01:13
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MohammadAG	indeed	01:13
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DocScrutinizer	I think he uses sth like tab expand	01:13
MohammadAG	first you need to enable R&D mode	01:13
MohammadAG	the image doesn't ping the watchdog	01:14
MohammadAG	second, cd .. till you get to /	01:14
MohammadAG	then you can use CTRL+i to tab	01:14
DocScrutinizer	then you need to figure how to mount the maemo rootfs	01:14
DocScrutinizer	afaik	01:14
Kilroo1	DocScrutinizer: Suspected as much. For the moment, though, I'm focusing on (1) charging back to green and (2) seeing if I can use flasher from a Virtualbox so I don't have to go in the other room, since Arch can't enumerate the usb thingamadoodles.	01:15
MohammadAG	the initrd has problems mounting ubifs partitions	01:15
MohammadAG	missing lib or something	01:15
Kilroo1	Thank you, MohammadAG. Very useful information...especially that last part which has the potential to save me hours of wild goose chasing...	01:15
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Kilroo1	Every time I see ubifs I picture the ubisoft logo	01:17
DocScrutinizer	I think booting to a full meego system on uSD is a better way to stay mentally sane and still recover some maemo borkedness	01:17
DocScrutinizer	aiui you can boot meego from uSD quite the same way you boot rescue-initrd	01:17
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DocScrutinizer	but you got a proper full equipped system then, rather than a neutered crippled minimalistic initrd	01:18
Venemo	hey guys	01:19
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Kilroo1	DocS: There's a thought. My backups are on my 32gig but I have an 8 right next to me that isn't doing anything useful. Sounds like a splendid idea if it'll work.	01:19
DocScrutinizer	(booting meego using flasher) not very common nowadays, but been where meego started	01:19
Kilroo1	I'm still kinda wondering where I fouled up what I was trying to do in the first place	01:20
DocScrutinizer	messing with init is always a russian roulette	01:20
Venemo	hey DocScrutinizer, I hacked together something that your tester may like	01:21
DocScrutinizer	my tester?	01:21
Kilroo1	I suspect it was partly due to my not realizing that the step where I got stuck was going to keep multiboot from happening (yeah, yeah, I know)	01:21
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, the same person whom you claimed to have been the tester of puzzle-master?	01:22
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DocScrutinizer	the stepson of my friend	01:22
DocScrutinizer	not seen him for a long time	01:22
Kilroo1	but I'm not sure, because I can't really tell whether it's still trying to use power47 anyway, and if it is, then the module for the patriot microsd is not the problem.	01:22
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, well, any kid would like it. even MohammadAG is loving it :)	01:22
DocScrutinizer	hehehehe :-D	01:23
DocScrutinizer	I have to confess PM is waiting for evaluation since last update that's been like one week ago	01:23
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Venemo	PM=?	01:23
Venemo	ahh	01:23
Venemo	puzzlemaster	01:23
Venemo	no problem :)	01:24
Venemo	take your time	01:24
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Kilroo1	Side note: there is precious little easy documentation to find regarding bootmenu. Multiboot and u-boot are much easier to find. Makes threads that talk about bootmenu quite confusing at times.	01:28
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MohammadAG	<Venemo> DocScrutinizer, well, any kid would like it. even MohammadAG is loving it :)	01:41
MohammadAG	I see what you did there	01:41
DocScrutinizer	Kilroo1: bootmenu is relatively simple to understand. What backupmenu does is way more difficult to understand as it rapes bootmenu's concept	01:45
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Venemo	MohammadAG, what do you mean?	01:46
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DocScrutinizer	admittedly due to the fact bootmenu's concept is missing a few basic things, so implementing sth like backup menu is impossible without raping bootmenu	01:47
Kilroo1	DocScrutinizer: I wasn't looking at it in the context of backupmenu...in the process of stuff, I came across a thread about booting to a rootfs on emmc instead of the normal one, and it had a bit about making it work with bootmenu and a question (with no answer I believe) about making it work with multiboot instead.	01:47
Kilroo1	Partly off-topid: still wtb http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=865425&postcount=84	01:47
DocScrutinizer	multiboot is deprecated crap	01:48
Venemo	MohammadAG, aaaaahhh	01:48
Kilroo1	topic, not topid	01:48
Venemo	MohammadAG, I didn't mean it like that.	01:48
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: I got it like that :-P	01:49
Venemo	eehh.	01:50
Kilroo1	DocScrutinizer: Since I'm getting an Archos 101, I may actually be about to take your advice (actually mine too, I just haven't followed it yet) and ditch nitdroid completely until someone makes it work with u-boot.	01:50
Venemo	apparently I'm having some trouble expressing myself in English	01:50
Venemo	sorry MohammadAG :)	01:50
Kilroo1	English is a crappy language	01:50
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Kilroo1	wish I weren't too lazy to bother learning better ones	01:50
Venemo	hehe	01:51
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MohammadAG	lol no worries Venemo	01:51
Kilroo1	I understand French fairly well, but any language in which "it's not the foot, it's the beard" means "it's not okay, it's boring" is bound to be a little confusing	01:51
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: that's just because MohammadAG is really young. Would you say "even DocScrutinizer loves it" I'd feel pleased I haven't lost all of my childish mind	01:51
Kilroo1	Granted English does some equally silly things	01:52
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, well, check out the stuff and say you love it.	01:52
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, then I'll say "even DocScrutinizer loves it" :)	01:52
MohammadAG	hmm, can't find my N900	01:52
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, you'll need a git client and a Qt Creator. https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/memory-game	01:52
DocScrutinizer	WUT?	01:53
MohammadAG	just give him a binary	01:53
Kilroo1	Wait a minute.	01:53
Venemo	heh	01:53
Venemo	okay	01:53
MohammadAG	ZogG, orange sucks	01:53
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, wait 5 minutes and you shall have a binary	01:54
DocScrutinizer	ok, but I insist in you saying "even DocScrutinizer the old fart loves it"	01:55
Venemo	are you an old fart?	01:55
DocScrutinizer	since 2 days I definitely am	01:55
Venemo	why is that?	01:55
DocScrutinizer	aging process cycle completed one time too often	01:56
MohammadAG	aka birthday?	01:56
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, how many is too often?	01:56
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MohammadAG	omg qole was here	01:57
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Kilroo1	Good grief, I have 166 firefox tabs open	01:57
SpeedEvil	Only 166?	01:57
* SpeedEvil loves panorama.		01:57
DocScrutinizer	I prefer to think in astronomic dimensions, like "some unknown planet seen a earth-sun occlusion for the <noooooo:-P>th time since I started to suffer from the big blue box	01:58
* SpeedEvil stabs the fuckheads that removed the close-window-warning.		01:58
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, <noooooo:-P>=?	01:58
nox-	SpeedEvil, you can use history->restore previous session	01:58
Kilroo1	166 is not actually that many for me, but I think that's double how many I had open before I decided I wanted to repartition my emmc yesterday.	01:58
nox-	(in ff 4.0 at least)	01:58
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SpeedEvil	nox-: Indeed you can.	01:58
SpeedEvil	nox-: Which is quite irrelevant to my objection.	01:59
nox-	hm ok	01:59
SpeedEvil	nox-: That takes both bandwidth, and lots of time.	01:59
nox-	hm true...	01:59
SpeedEvil	nox-: In high tab-count cases. And in some cases loses transient content.	01:59
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: you can see my "avatar" all over tmo, you're free to guess	01:59
nox-	nod	01:59
MohammadAG_	ff4 still asks me if I want to close all tabs	01:59
ShadowJK	I addead a squid server on my local network to mitigate the bandwidth splurge after a firefox crash	01:59
SpeedEvil	For example, I'm a subscriber to a news service. And typically have 20 of their tabs open. But I can only access 10 stories a day. So when I have to reload, I get 10 tabs, and 10 saying 'you can't access this today'	02:00
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: if you have >1 window open it does, if you do not, it does not.	02:00
ShadowJK	lol	02:00
Kilroo1	squid server sounds like it should run on a Japanese restaurant.	02:00
Kilroo1	Or something.	02:01
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, judging by this: http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=35572 I wouldn't think you are any older than 35	02:01
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I need to re-set that up. Well - or something similar. I had wwwoffled. This is intended as an offline cache.	02:01
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: So you can access it while offline, and it will not error.	02:01
ShadowJK	nice	02:02
* Kilroo1 facepalms		02:02
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Also I need it to setup my differential proxy idea.	02:02
Kilroo1	Flasher is in AUR.	02:02
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Kilroo1	Flasher from AUR gets a different error. One for which I have already encountered a proposed solution. Where did I leave that tab.	02:04
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Kilroo1	Hooray! Flashing from Arch works with flasher from AUR and rmmodded phonet stuff.	02:09
* Kilroo1 shuts off virtualbox.		02:09
merlin1991	Kilroo1: mind to share the solution for the nativ arch flasher?	02:09
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, would you prefer an x86_64 binary or a .deb for the N900?	02:10
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merlin1991	Venemo: x86_64 isn't going far on the n900	02:10
Kilroo1	merlin1991: Install flasher from AUR, sudo rmmod cdc_phonet, sudo rmmod phonet, flash. WOMM.	02:10
Venemo	merlin1991, this isn't only for the N900	02:10
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Venemo	merlin1991, the question was rather whether DocScrutinizer prefers to try it on his n900 or his computer	02:11
merlin1991	for me it looked like (would you prefer an x86_64 binary or a .deb) for the N900? and not would you prefer an x86_64 binary or ( a .deb for the N900?)	02:11
merlin1991	:D	02:12
Venemo	merlin1991, apply common sense.	02:12
merlin1991	you're asking for too much ;)	02:13
Venemo	:P	02:13
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* merlin1991 starts to wonder if it was such a good idea to install kernel-power-flasher over ssh		02:14
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: N900 of course	02:14
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: why?	02:14
merlin1991	buecause nothing happened	02:14
merlin1991	untill I saw the there is a warning window on the n900	02:15
DocScrutinizer	afaik sth will happen on next boot	02:15
DocScrutinizer	oh yes, that too	02:15
DocScrutinizer	we discussed that problem lately	02:16
merlin1991	yep	02:16
DocScrutinizer	it boiled down to "how do I detect I run in an xterm and not under HAM"	02:16
Kilroo1	oh by the way. Can I turn on the blasted backlight from the rescue terminal or something? I'm going to go blind peering at the screen.	02:17
merlin1991	and I think ended up with the channel splitted btw the "use ham and stufu" and the "it should work over ssh too fanboys"	02:17
DocScrutinizer	umm, echo 100 >/sys/*??/brightness	02:17
Kilroo1	in other words no.	02:19
Kilroo1	hehe	02:19
DocScrutinizer	?	02:19
DocScrutinizer	no /sys?	02:19
Kilroo1	Can't type >	02:19
Kilroo1	at least not so far.	02:20
DocScrutinizer	fsck!	02:20
DocScrutinizer	this is SOOOOO annoying - and silly	02:20
Kilroo1	On the bright side, I have at least gotten as far as the initrd now	02:21
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, "how do I detect I run in an xterm and not under HAM" -> couldbe the output of 'ps aux \| grep hildon-application-manager'	02:21
merlin1991	FFS	02:21
merlin1991	I just wanted to install apps	02:21
Kilroo1	...unfortunately, while I can now mount home and MyDocs from linux, I still don't seem to be able to mount the rootfs where I wanted to make the changes...	02:22
merlin1991	guess what happened to maemo.org/packages/vew	02:22
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: I thought more along the line of $PPID and /proc/fd/*	02:22
merlin1991	Kilroo1: rootfs is on a different flash	02:22
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Kilroo1	merlin1991: Yep. Somewhere I'd gotten the apparently mistaken impression it was going to be exposed for mounting.	02:23
Kilroo1	I need to take some time to reorganize my tabs so I can find the right ones	02:23
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: wait a few years, eventually I will remember which (init.d/*) script did that, checking if stdout is assigned to a terminal or not	02:23
Kilroo1	also eat	02:23
Kilroo1	meanwhile time to put n900 back in a chargeable state	02:24
merlin1991	Kilroo1: maybe this can help you: http://pastebin.com/eqxajxeC	02:24
Venemo	mhm	02:24
Kilroo1	merlin1991: Maybe so. It's very pretty. What is it?	02:25
merlin1991	output of mount from my n900	02:25
merlin1991	maybe you get some info on how to mount rootfs out of it	02:25
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Kilroo1	Ah	02:26
Kilroo1	Thank you.	02:26
SpeedEvil	You cannot mount the rootfs over USB with the stock system.	02:26
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DocScrutinizer	recue-initrd has problems mounting ubifs afaik	02:26
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: rescue-initrd	02:26
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ...which is a way more nasty problem	02:27
Kilroo1	SpeedEvil: I know. I was trying to do it using the rescue initrd. So far that hasn't helped either. I think next step is trying to use flasher to boot meego from a microSD...if that still doesn't help I'm probably just going to have to reflash the durn thing after all.	02:28
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Kilroo1	But for the moment, I require caloric intake	02:28
DocScrutinizer	same here	02:28
Kilroo1	so phone back to charging mode and kilroo to kitchen.	02:28
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* merlin1991 just loves the huge WARNING! header when installing ic2-tools		02:30
SpeedEvil	It is actually possible to bork your device.	02:30
merlin1991	also the fact, that it again did a warning window on the n900	02:30
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merlin1991	SpeedEvil: I don't plan on creating an expensive brick	02:31
merlin1991	I only installed hostmode-gui	02:31
merlin1991	wich hopefully does proper use of ic2-tools	02:31
* merlin1991 blames MohammadAG if not		02:31
* SpeedEvil blames canada.		02:32
Venemo	achipa, ping	02:33
merlin1991	lol brightness went to 0 when closing the hostmode-gui	02:33
Venemo	achipa, did you know that any app using QGLWidget will segfault under Scratchbox?	02:34
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, http://venemo.fedorapeople.org/ -> memory-game_1.0_armel.deb	02:38
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* DocScrutinizer blames Nokia ;-P		02:39
Venemo	merlin1991, you can restore it easily	02:40
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: known issue when restarting bme. lock&unlock will fix	02:40
DocScrutinizer	known though not yet understood I have to add	02:41
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ShadowJK	it's the bme upstart script	02:42
ShadowJK	it sets brightness to 0	02:42
DocScrutinizer	wut??	02:42
DocScrutinizer	idiocy	02:42
ShadowJK	it accidentlly triggers a "oh shit we're booted with low battery, turn everything off until we can get bme running"	02:43
DocScrutinizer	hmm...	02:43
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: thanks for shedding some light on this	02:44
Venemo	nah, I'll go get some sleep now	02:44
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, lemme know your thoughts tomorrow	02:44
DocScrutinizer	anyway the workaround is simple: two times push the lock-slider switch	02:44
DocScrutinizer	I'll let you know right now the pissing microb just displayed rubbish when clicking the link	02:45
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DocScrutinizer	Venemo: night :-D	02:45
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, use "save as" or whatever	02:46
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Kilroo1	Random thought of the moment: I still love the belt case I use for my n900.	02:47
DocScrutinizer	120k?? o.O	02:47
Venemo	dunno why, the executable is 130k	02:48
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, also, this is my first attempt at a translateable application	02:49
Venemo	anyway, good night!	02:49
DocScrutinizer	EUPL?? o.O	02:51
DocScrutinizer	~wtf eupl	02:51
infobot	Gee... I don't know what eupl means...	02:51
DocScrutinizer	~eupl	02:51
DocScrutinizer	~wiki eupl	02:51
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EUPL (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox software license \| name = European Union Public Licence \| author = European Union \| version = 1.1 \| Publisher = European Commission \| copyright = European Union \| date = Jan 2007 \| OSI approved = Yes[http://www.osor.eu/news/eu-open-source-initiative-approves-european-union-public-licence] \| Debian approved = Yes (OSI approved) \| Free Software = Yes \| GPL compatible = v.2 yesThe ...	02:51
ShadowJK	NIH?	02:52
BCMM	are garage accounts linked to any other accounts?	02:52
DocScrutinizer	umm, not afaik	02:52
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BCMM	thanks	02:53
DocScrutinizer	denada	02:53
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DocScrutinizer	Venemo: nice :-)	02:57
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: I gather you'll improve it to have user selectable pictures and # of cards	02:57
Kilroo1	I find it entertaining that there are actually things released under the wtfpl	02:58
DocScrutinizer	Kilroo1: meego has ubifs support (according to alterego)	02:59
BCMM	heh, "Approvement"	02:59
BCMM	(i am awaiting "Approvement" for extras-devel)	02:59
* DocScrutinizer starts to feel sick - damn		02:59
Kilroo1	DocScrutinizer: Ossom. Still sorting browser tabs at the moment though, hehe. Then I have to make sure I find the right instructions.	03:00
BCMM	i actually prefer that to the proper word and am going to start using it	03:00
DocScrutinizer	Kilroo1: make sure you man mount.ubifs	03:00
DocScrutinizer	or whatever	03:00
DocScrutinizer	root is mtd5	03:00
Kilroo1	I shall make a note of that	03:01
Kilroo1	Oh, what was that command...	03:01
DocScrutinizer	not even alterego knew what to do with ubi ;-P	03:01
DocScrutinizer	mtd5 doesn't show in maemo "mount"	03:01
DocScrutinizer	of course, since it's rootfs that's defined on kernel cmdline by NOLO	03:02
Kilroo1	one of my coworkers wanted to know how to do something on one of the linux servers once and I told him to ssh into it and type "man <something>" and he started laughing...	03:03
Kilroo1	I'm sure "man mount" would have amused him even more.	03:03
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DocScrutinizer	and the "Mount options for ubifs" would make him fall off his chair	03:06
DocScrutinizer	anyway, for your convenience:	03:07
DocScrutinizer	ubi0:rootfs on / type ubifs (rw,bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc)	03:07
DocScrutinizer	which now first time makes some sense to me	03:08
DocScrutinizer	:-D	03:08
DocScrutinizer	0=device, :rootfs = name of NAND partition	03:09
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SpeedEvil	nox-: Or - in this case - losing volatile shopping carts. Grr.	03:14
nox-	:(	03:14
DocScrutinizer	?	03:14
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Firefox - nvm	03:15
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DocScrutinizer	aah, k	03:15
nox-	loss of `close all tabs' prompt	03:15
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DocScrutinizer	^F nox did the trick	03:16
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nox-	^f ?	03:16
DocScrutinizer	ctrl-f, in Konversation	03:17
DocScrutinizer	"find"	03:17
nox-	oh ok :)	03:17
DocScrutinizer	btw another somewhat borked feature in xchat	03:17
DocScrutinizer	iirc	03:17
nox-	ah yeah only goes back in whatever still is in the scollback...	03:18
DocScrutinizer	of course a nonexistent feature in maemo-xterm	03:18
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nox-	and a borked one in microb too	03:19
DocScrutinizer	nox-: that'd be the expected behaviour	03:19
DocScrutinizer	yeah, in microb too	03:19
DocScrutinizer	related to zooming in mircrob, it seems	03:19
nox-	DocScrutinizer, so sometimes xchat doesnt even do that?	03:19
nox-	oh, n900 xchat?	03:20
DocScrutinizer	nox-: sometimes I think it doesn't multiple searches	03:20
DocScrutinizer	yeah, n900 xchat	03:20
nox-	ah ok i usually dont irc from that little screen...	03:20
DocScrutinizer	like here ^F nox [prev] [prev]	03:20
DocScrutinizer	the [prev] aka [ENTER] fails on xchat iirc	03:21
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DocScrutinizer	or it also misslocates, like microb	03:21
DocScrutinizer	haven't used it in a while	03:21
nox-	haha and now i have a bunch of blank lines...	03:22
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DocScrutinizer	so just recall it's borked	03:22
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DocScrutinizer	seem to recall	03:22
DocScrutinizer	headache, o/	03:23
nox-	well something is definitely broken there yeah	03:23
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Kilroo1	Mythbusters is making me laugh so hard I'm crying.	03:34
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DocScrutinizer	mythbusters are clows with no clue. They wouldn't have passed physics tests of highschool	03:44
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DocScrutinizer	buolding a model of a suspension bridge like golden gate, and then forgetting about mounts for the strings, that's sooooo lame	03:46
Sazpaimon_	so like	03:46
Sazpaimon_	i have an sd to microsd adapter	03:46
Kilroo1	Clowns causing explosions are fun to watch though	03:46
Sazpaimon_	not the other way around mind you	03:47
Sazpaimon_	if i get an sdxc card, you think itll work?	03:47
cehteh	iirc sdhc is not compatible to sdxc ... but ask wikipedia or someone else to be sure	03:48
DocScrutinizer	yo	03:49
Sazpaimon_	i read theyre electronicly compaitble	03:49
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Sazpaimon_	I may be wrong though	03:52
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blizzow	I'm having a nightmare of a time getting tethering to work with T-Mobile and my n900.	04:38
blizzow	I've tried the prebuilt mobile profiles for ubuntu, and it just keeps saying GSM network disconnected.	04:39
SpeedEvil	you plug the n900 into USB, and select 'pc-suite' mode?	04:40
blizzow	SpeedEvil: did that.	04:42
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ds3	or use slirp on the n900	04:51
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Kilroo	This is weird...the rmmod trick seems to have stopped working.	06:12
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Kilroo	I wonder if this was the wrong meego to try out.	06:56
Kilroo	Seems all right so far, just slow as molasses	06:57
Kilroo	which is probably moreso the fault of my sd card	06:58
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Jade	hi	07:13
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Kilroo	Rats!	07:25
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RST38h	The U.S. government spent $2 trillion combating bin Laden over the past decade, more than 20 percent of the nations $9.68 trillion public debt.	08:21
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derf	That's okay, we spent something like $20tln bailing out Wall Street in 2008 and 2009 alone.	08:23
derf	Though of course most of that will never show up on the books.	08:24
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RST38h	derf: hasn't most of this money been returned to the fed though?	08:44
* slonopotamus wonders when the hell diablo extras sign key will be fixed		08:45
derf	RST38h: No, the Fed got "collateral", otherwise known as the worthless shit they couldn't sell on the open market.	08:45
derf	Priced at whatever the banks said it was worth.	08:46
derf	But the Fed is only part of the picture... there were at least a dozen different programs beyond the famous ones like TARP.	08:47
RST38h	What a fail in the making...	08:47
derf	My favorite being ABCPMMMFLF.	08:48
RST38h	OMG google actually finds this thing	08:48
derf	I'm not making this up.	08:48
RST38h	Some bureaucrat had vivid bureaucratic imagination	08:49
derf	It was their finest hour, I'm sure.	08:49
achipa	Venemo: no, but the gl stuff can be tricky, i.e. die because of not apparent reasons	08:49
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RST38h	going-to-work time...	08:50
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Termana	good morning	09:48
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mece	I can has final qtmobility1.2 for maemo plz?	10:25
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mece	hello	10:31
achipa	me yesiree, one fresh qtmobility1.2 coming up	10:31
achipa	mece: ^^	10:31
achipa	also will update the qtm-11 packages to 1.1.3	10:32
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mece	WOOHOO!	10:35
mece	I'm actually having some trouble with qml-location plugin, hopefully it will work with the final version	10:35
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mece	qml location stuff is absolutely epic! I already have like 10 apps planned.	10:36
mece	Also, can we push it to extras now that it's final?	10:36
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Venemo	mece, what're those 10 apps?	10:40
mece	ok maybe a small exaggeration	10:41
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mece	one is a program where you track friends who share location in realtime (0.5 - 1 updates per second) and another is a tourism map thing for certain areas in the baltic sea (Turku archipelago in Finland, the Estonian islands and Roslagen in Sweden)	10:44
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mece	I have some other vague plans too, but nothing concrete	10:45
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mece	achipa, anyway in qml, MapMouseArea and MapCircle for example doesn't work properly in the current version of qtm12 for maemo.	10:47
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mece	I love that we're first with everything new :)	10:49
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, yeah, you gather correctly	11:11
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DocScrutinizer	mece: yeah, esp with unique new bugs ;-D	11:55
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DocScrutinizer	"sorry developer. We have to report that qtm is broken to the bones, and your app using qtm can't qualify for extras due to excessive battery drain caused by qtm. Please wait until we eventually fix this issue, or rewrite your app to use another API/lib TK thatn qtm"	11:57
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RST38h	Doc: Won't "Fuck off" be more concise, while retaining both the meaning and the tone of the message?	12:17
mece	DocScrutinizer, a whaa?	12:17
mece	DocScrutinizer, where did that come from?	12:18
DocScrutinizer	outa my arse, though ought come from qtm devels	12:18
DocScrutinizer	based on "< MohammadAG > yeah, qtm-sensors eats 35% of my CPU" (OWTTE)	12:19
mece	is there a particular bug you're referring to?	12:19
mece	DocScrutinizer, which qtm version was that then?	12:20
DocScrutinizer	sure, qtfilesensor-object is polling	12:20
DocScrutinizer	ask MohammadAG	12:22
RST38h	The funny part is, they would not have to do it if Maemo Platform guys implemented proper Linux-friendly sensor APIs	12:22
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RST38h	For which there even was a bug in Bugzilla, but they disregarded it	12:22
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: listening to lis302 directly is a layering violation as that'S a task best performed by a middleware (like mce, fso) that needs root and exclusive access to sensors like lis302	12:23
mece	DocScrutinizer, seems to be fixed: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-1505	12:24
DocScrutinizer	so qtm tries to do things in userland that definitely should be root daemons - this can't pan out	12:24
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ruskie	hehe	12:28
DocScrutinizer	mece: that's utter bullshit, they simply changed the sampling rate rsp made it user-configurable. It's still polling. POLLING!!! this is absolutely completely definitely brainfucked concept	12:28
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mece	DocScrutinizer, so don't use it.	12:29
DocScrutinizer	that's what I said: don't use qtm on maemo, it's bad to the bones	12:31
mece	I want to.	12:31
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DocScrutinizer	so don't hope for your app passing QA as it will rape the battery	12:34
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ShadowJK	is the interrupt line even connected to anything	12:35
DocScrutinizer	wait, wasn't that exactly what I said initially?	12:35
ShadowJK	my screen is too small	12:36
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: which one? the both IRQ lines of e.g. lis302dl?of course they are connected to SoC	12:36
mece	DocScrutinizer, are you saying everything in qtm eats up battery?	12:36
ShadowJK	Are those IRQs exposed by the kernel?	12:37
DocScrutinizer	QObject filesensor is broken by design	12:37
DocScrutinizer	so yes	12:37
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: sure, usually they are	12:37
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ShadowJK	I don't remember seeing them in /sys anywhere	12:37
DocScrutinizer	one way or another	12:37
DocScrutinizer	the somewhat suboptimal lis302.ko shall cause a kevent when updating coord	12:38
DocScrutinizer	it shall update coord when IRQ happens	12:38
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DocScrutinizer	IRQ should fire (set up to do that) when actual device orientatiopn changes	12:39
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DocScrutinizer	a way nicer concept is what we got on OM/OE for lis302.ko, which creates a /dev/input/* device that simply blocks on read until next new data from lis302 arrives	12:40
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DocScrutinizer	I.E. until the IRQ of lis302 fires, however it's configured (data-ready which means chip-clocked 'polling', IRQ-WU-FF which can be set via thresholds to fire only when device gets moved...)	12:41
DocScrutinizer	the upstream lis3lv02.ko driver predates both the maemo and OM driver, and is written with joysticks and coninuous data sampling in mind, so it doesn't support any proper IRQ driven concept	12:43
mece	DocScrutinizer, curiously the qtm1.2 app I'm running right now uses a massive 1% cpu.	12:43
DocScrutinizer	for sensors like proxy / ALS sitaution is similar or even worse	12:43
flux	mece, what is the application doing?	12:44
DocScrutinizer	constantly using 1% for NOTHING is absolutely no yota better than eating 35%	12:44
flux	mece, if it's not doing anything, 1% is more than enough for bringing the CPU out of its power saving mode..	12:44
DocScrutinizer	exactly	12:45
flux	but, I can understand if some app framework uses polling for sensors. or has someone actually proven (with code) that interrupt-driven IO can bring the same abilities?	12:45
flux	but if it does everything in a polling manner, then something has gone awfully wrong.	12:45
mece	well now it's using 0.0% cpu...	12:46
flux	powertop would tell you if it causes wakeups	12:46
DocScrutinizer	flux: mce has proven it	12:46
flux	if not, then it's great	12:46
flux	docscrutinizer, mce runs as root, though?	12:46
DocScrutinizer	that's my point, scroll up!	12:47
flux	well, maybe they don't like to do daemons. once a proper solution arrives, I'd imagine they are happy to use it.	12:47
achipa	mece: yes, libqtm-12 is going to extras after we give it a shake	12:47
DocScrutinizer	[2011-05-12 11:23:41] <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: listening to lis302 directly is a layering violation as that'S a task best performed by a middleware (like mce, fso) that needs root and exclusive access to sensors like lis302 [2011-05-12 11:24:14] <DocScrutinizer> so qtm tries to do things in userland that definitely should be root daemons - this can't pan out	12:47
flux	it doesn't like a great deal of refactoring would be required to make use of better facilities	12:47
flux	I can understand if some people want to use sensors, but don't want to write system software to do it, if some other way is available.	12:48
achipa	... hm, should also update the MADDE rootstraps with this one so they would be usable from QtSDK...	12:49
mece	what exactly does "using sensors" mean?	12:49
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mece	achipa, yes, it's really annoying to when I can't test stuff on desktop	12:49
DocScrutinizer	that other way has immanent issues though, as "no resource sharing", "no proper usage of kevent or other sane concepts to keep CPU in c5"...	12:50
flux	mece, have functionality that depends on sensor input?	12:50
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mece	flux, what counts as sensors?	12:50
flux	mece, a component that reacts to real-world operations..	12:50
DocScrutinizer	the whole concept of qtm is buggy	12:50
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mece	flux, umm.. like the keyboard?	12:50
flux	mece, like a keyboard. keyboards have great interrupt-driven support throughout the systems.	12:51
DocScrutinizer	in a way that's hard or even impossuble to fix	12:51
flux	mece, some other sensors, like the proximity sensors, doesn't have that level of support.	12:51
mece	flux, ok...	12:51
DocScrutinizer	exactly that's the problem	12:51
flux	and it's slightly more difficult anyway. for example how do you describe the hardware that exact condition when you want an interrupt, if you're not satisfied with a simple level triggering.	12:52
flux	and what if there are multiple applications that all want a different triggering level	12:52
DocScrutinizer	proximity sensor is connected to a CPU GPIO that probably can easily be set up to create an IRQ	12:52
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DocScrutinizer	flux: fuzzy, but to the point however. That's why you need a root middleware sensor handler	12:53
flux	docscrutinizer, which might just end up polling, if it supports complex triggering events..	12:54
DocScrutinizer	and that in turn is why qtm never will pan out	12:54
flux	of course, it's better to have one poller than many	12:54
DocScrutinizer	nonsense, the hardware is designed to avoid polling	12:54
DocScrutinizer	there's no such case like mutually exclusive sets of triggers	12:55
flux	proximity sensor gives our a number I imagine?	12:55
DocScrutinizer	eh?	12:55
DocScrutinizer	it gives one bit	12:55
DocScrutinizer	1/0	12:55
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DocScrutinizer	to a GPIO (general purpose input/output) of the SoC	12:56
flux	oh, I was thinking it might have some states in-between as well, the final value being considered as the boolean being a tunable matter.	12:56
mece	well regardless, DocScrutinizer, you comment that my app that uses qtm12 will drain battery, and thusly not be able to make it to extras, is just plain wrong, even with the problems you're describing, because you actually have to use those components of qtm to have the problems.	12:56
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DocScrutinizer	well, that's true I guess	12:57
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DocScrutinizer	I'd hope qtm wouldn't poll sensors if you don't even include or whatever them	12:57
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timeless_w7ip	odd	12:57
flux	I would expect you need to manually setup the class etc to get access to sensors.	12:58
* timeless_w7ip got a call from "reception" asking about a package		12:58
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flux	timeless_w7ip, but the thing is, you don't have reception?!	12:58
flux	;)	12:58
mece	DocScrutinizer, well as I said it used 0.0% cpu. so qtm location bits seem fine.	12:58
DocScrutinizer	but then otoh you never know which stuff in qtm is using the sensors for their own purposes, like "QOrientation" (if there's such a thing), display ratio which is based on orientation, etc etc	12:58
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flux	docscrutinizer, how does the current web browser detect the orientation change, btw?	12:59
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flux	I guess it can just use the same mechanism. or if it doesn't, it could in the future.	12:59
DocScrutinizer	dunno, ask MohammadAG	12:59
flux	in any case, I can see (reiterating my point) that the QT Mobility team doesn't consider writing daemons to platforms beloinging into the project scope.	13:00
* DocScrutinizer too		13:00
DocScrutinizer	but that's no excuse for doing botch	13:00
mece	DocScrutinizer, have you filed bugs?	13:01
DocScrutinizer	you can't base the architecture of a general purpose lib on what you like to write and what you don't	13:01
flux	indeed. better say "this is impossible, because it results in non-optimal battery consumption."	13:02
flux	I really really doubt that is an architectural decision, btw.	13:02
flux	rather the implementation of one class.	13:02
flux	qt is really built to be very asynchronous.	13:02
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, I as well wondered why they went for this concept there	13:05
DocScrutinizer	mece: (ticket) ask Venemo	13:06
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DocScrutinizer	flux: (better say "this is impossible, because it results in non-optimal battery..) also in race conditions when several concurrent apps try to access the same sensor, esp when it's a configurable sensor like lis302dl g-meter that needs some reasonable configuration and management	13:13
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DocScrutinizer	flux: this qtm approach is kinda DOS-minded - "I'm the (only) app running on this machine, so I can pretty much do what I want as long as I clean up befor quit"	13:15
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timeless_w7ip	flux: correct, the call was from Nokia reception	13:21
timeless_w7ip	and i don't work for nokia	13:21
timeless_w7ip	they were very funny	13:21
timeless_w7ip	first they accused me of coming in this morning	13:21
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timeless_w7ip	then they accused me of coming in yesterday morning	13:21
timeless_w7ip	then they accused me of having received a package	13:21
timeless_w7ip	... what i actually did was attempt to leave a box for nokia <to be trashed by an authorized employee> yesterday afternoon!	13:22
timeless_w7ip	(it was the box for my corporate DSL modem, i had returned the modem when I resigned and discovered the box later)	13:23
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ShadowJK	You resigned?	13:39
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DocScrutinizer	he did	13:41
frals	timeless_w7ip: so where are you going now, RIM?	13:45
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RST38h	timeless: No longer at Nokia? Where to then?	13:55
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timeless_w7ip	frals: yes	14:01
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* SpeedEvil imagines for a moment RIM going open-source.		14:05
* SpeedEvil has doubts.		14:05
* sp3000 has a cold		14:05
sp3000	trade?	14:05
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timeless_w7ip	speedevil: these days most companies use some open source software	14:22
timeless_w7ip	RIM bought Torch Mobile	14:22
timeless_w7ip	but i won't be working on software	14:24
timeless_w7ip	so i'm not going to care	14:24
timeless_w7ip	my goal is to improve the life of normal people	14:24
timeless_w7ip	and while i work on software, my goal is to develop skills i can market to future employers	14:24
timeless_w7ip	working on open source software at one employer is a marketable skill when i talk to my next prospective employer	14:25
timeless_w7ip	working on a product which is full of trade secrets, is not	14:25
timeless_w7ip	and if that product never ships, then i have very little to show	14:25
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timeless_w7ip	grr	14:26
* timeless_w7ip hates this stuff		14:26
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timeless_w7ip	someone is bugging me to add ~5 extra lines to a patch	14:26
timeless_w7ip	but that requires getting access to $random_lame_vcs	14:27
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RST38h	"You're awesome! Thanks for trying Google Chrome!" <== what is with the "awesome" part? How is downloading this thing making me awesome?	14:31
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* RST38h writes it off as incomprehensible figure of speech		14:32
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ShadowJK	After babysitting users trying to use facebook, just the fact that they manage to click a link and download something makes them quite awesome, relatively speaking	14:34
robbiethe1st	RST38h: You gave them /free/ data! How much more awesome can you get?	14:34
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RST38h	Not yet.	14:34
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lardman\|home	RST38h: they just know that you in particular are awsome because they've already been tracking your web usage ;)	14:35
lardman\|home	or awesome even :)	14:35
RST38h	Ah	14:35
RST38h	awwsome, indeed	14:35
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flux	rst38h, you know how everyone thinkgs that they are not special enough to be tracked? well, with google chrome you ARE that awesome!	14:41
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an0therb0x	is it possible to sync n900 contacts with my google contacts ?	14:50
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Venemo_N900	meh	14:55
Venemo_N900	since I've reflashed my N900, transmission (again) refuses to work	14:55
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Venemo_N900	how can I get apt-get to ignore the dependencies of something?	15:05
Sicelo_	~aiui	15:06
infobot	aiui is, like, As I Understand It	15:06
mece	Venemo_N900, --ignore-missing	15:09
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Venemo_N900	thx mece	15:12
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Venemo_N900	mece, it doesn't work	15:13
mece	Venemo_N900, what does it say?	15:14
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Venemo_N900	same thing it says without that option	15:16
mece	Venemo_N900, bugger. well then wget the deb and do dpkg --force-conflicts -i file.deb	15:16
mece	Venemo_N900, or you can apt-get --download-only if you don't feel like looking for the file	15:17
mece	they end up somewhere... was it ~/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/ perhaps	15:18
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mece	anyway good luck with that. I'm off.	15:18
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Venemo_N900	eh	15:23
Venemo_N900	this crap froze	15:23
Venemo_N900	and now I get 'readonly filesystem'	15:23
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Venemo_N900	MohammadAG, could you repeat me what to do when I get readonly filesystem?	15:29
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trx	actually readonly fs would be usefull when conecting to windows pc's via usb	15:30
trx	i usually pickup all kind of crap	15:30
Venemo_N900	hehe	15:30
Venemo_N900	yeah	15:30
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merlin1991	andjust the mass storage sh? :D	15:34
merlin1991	adjust	15:34
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arvut	haj haj im so..	16:50
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arvut	I think I just came up with an algorithm for a crypto..	16:52
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SpeedEvil	Generally some of the most ill-advised words in coding.	16:52
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SpeedEvil	Right along with 'naah - I don't think I need to salt these passwords'.	16:53
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SpeedEvil	And 'I'll just use the encrypted seconds since epoch as my key.	16:53
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edheldil	SpeedEvil: exactly	16:59
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ShadowJK	arvut, does it involve ^	17:00
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edheldil	ShadowJK: no, it does (n+3)%26 with each letter of the plaintext ;-)	17:10
edheldil	SpeedEvil: even better is "let's remove this MD_update() since valgrind thinks it's unassigned data" :-D	17:12
SpeedEvil	Indeed.	17:13
SpeedEvil	That also shows a more subtle problem.	17:14
SpeedEvil	Namely the lack of reviews in security code.	17:14
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edheldil	One could argue that the act of review was the problem :)	17:16
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SpeedEvil	I suppose that's the major reason why I think linus is wrong that 'security bugs are just bugs'	17:18
SpeedEvil	In that there is at least a subset of them where tehy work just fine for 'normal' users, and only exhibit flaws for attackers.	17:19
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edheldil	SpeedEvil: Agreed in the sense that for sys admins deciding whether to install a new kernel there's a huge difference between a bug which does not affect them during normal operation and an exploitable flaw	17:26
jacekowski	have you heard that nokia has applied for FCC certification for N9	17:27
SpeedEvil	Not quite that - I mean that security issues may be utterly silent until you have an attacker. It will never ever cause normal users an issue. So it can only be found on cod review.	17:27
SpeedEvil	Hmm.	17:27
* SpeedEvil decides on fish-fingers for tonight.		17:28
SpeedEvil	And I meant code review of course.	17:28
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Nanohcv	hello, who is responsible for the repositories? Or how can I remove my Application from extras-devel?	17:28
jacekowski	you can't	17:29
jacekowski	once uploaded it stays there forever	17:29
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Nanohcv	Nobody can remove it?	17:29
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jacekowski	somebody can remove it	17:30
jacekowski	but he's not here	17:30
Nanohcv	thanks! Where can I find somebody? :-)	17:31
edheldil	Nanohcv: why remove it? :)	17:32
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: how do you tweak it?	20:04
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: usbnetworking or wifi?	20:04
DocScrutinizer	what's it?	20:04
chem\|st	ssh to off device it was	20:05
chem\|st	mce.ini you said	20:05
DocScrutinizer	aah, it seems there's some setting in mce.ini to define if device should stay "online" (aka wifi on) during act_dead	20:05
chem\|st	act_dead is that boot state for charging	20:06
chem\|st	?!	20:06
DocScrutinizer	right atm I'm unsure if it's been mce.ini, but I think it was	20:06
DocScrutinizer	yes	20:06
DocScrutinizer	act_dead is charging while "off"	20:06
chem\|st	so predefined network to logon to by IAP_ID or what?	20:07
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chem\|st	have a google search phrase in mind or a link already?	20:07
DocScrutinizer	I've not looked into it thoroughly, just noticed some comment regarding this somewhere	20:07
DocScrutinizer	wait a minute	20:08
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chem\|st	mmh would be interesting to have it provide an usb interface	20:08
DocScrutinizer	[SoftPowerOff]	20:09
DocScrutinizer	# Connectivity policy with charger connected	20:09
DocScrutinizer	et al, in mce.ini	20:09
chem\|st	softpoweroff is not in use in rx51	20:09
chem\|st	thats for <810 afaik	20:09
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	20:09
chem\|st	at least that is what I remember from a discussion about that softpoweroff-state	20:10
chem\|st	gtg	20:12
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DocScrutinizer	well, act_dead aka soft-poweroff is an init-state. So you always can tailor etc/rc5(?).d/* to meet your idea of what this state should really do	20:14
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: ^^^	20:15
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blizzow2	I used to have an N900, then I lost it skiing, so I picked up a new one and a new SIM card from T-mobile USA. I had tethering working on my old N900, but now it doesn't. I called T-mobile and they said I needed to add a tethering plan to my already unlimited data/web. I don't believe the customer service guy, does anyone here know how I should be setting up tethering? (With Ubuntu Natty)	20:36
DocScrutinizer	pondering about that, I come to think it might well be worth to #define act_sane act_dead	20:37
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Venemo	blizzow2, tethering is not really good without a data plan anyway	20:38
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DocScrutinizer	I.E. make act_dead a state where you get a minimalistic but guaranteed to work system, that's not influenced by any tweaks to normal initstate tweaks like messing with mounts and other tweaks to init, settings, widgets, whatever	20:39
blizzow2	It worked well enough with my old N900 Venemo.	20:39
blizzow2	C0s3.14pho!	20:39
e-yes	only way to disable tethering i see is set TTL on incoming IP packets to 1. is this what they really do?	20:39
ShadowJK	does the usual browser work?	20:40
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ShadowJK	80% C4	20:42
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ShadowJK	quiet time of day on irc I guess	20:42
Proteous	too quiet	20:42
Venemo	yeah	20:43
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jacekowski	e-yes: you can work around ttl as well	20:57
blizzow2	Venemo: plus, I do have a data plan. From my N900 I can ssh, surf the web, or use bittorrent... I shouldn't have to pay $15/month just to hook my laptop up to it.	20:58
e-yes	yea. if so (TTL=1) it's possible to fix it via iptables, me thinks.	20:58
Venemo	blizzow2, okay, then it should indeed work	20:58
jacekowski	blizzow2: well, you should	20:58
jacekowski	blizzow2: T&C says that data plan is to be used only on phone	20:59
jacekowski	but well, what is the problem	20:59
jacekowski	you get any error messages or something	20:59
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blizzow2	jacekowski: no error messages.	21:20
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Hukka	Ok... so I updated media player, and now the album list is ignoring my flac albums	21:26
Hukka	It's not that it doesn't understand the metadata; if I select a file to play via file view, it adds it and the player shows the album and artist correctly	21:27
Hukka	Nor is it a matter of resetting tracker, did that and it still only adds mp3 albums	21:27
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DocScrutinizer	blizzow2: just ignore that	21:40
DocScrutinizer	there's basically zero difference between you surfing via microb on N900, and you surfing via FF on PC which it tethered to N900	21:41
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ShadowJK	the point about TTL though..	21:43
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DocScrutinizer	maemo is tethered to modem same way as any buntkuh on a PC, in PC-Suite mode	21:44
ShadowJK	hm..	21:45
ds3	use slirp to tether	21:47
ds3	so it becomes just an app doing weird data access	21:47
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DocScrutinizer	damn, what's been the command to erase single lines from chanlog? povbot! erase RE .tweak.tweak.tweak. ?	21:56
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DocScrutinizer	sorry for that line, seems I suffered from a general pariry error on stack	21:58
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RST38h	Doc: what line? =)	22:00
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DocScrutinizer	the one matching that RE, isn't that obvious ;-D	22:09
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yigal	how do I completely erase my N900	22:20
Hukka	Write over with the default images	22:20
Hukka	Both the "firmware" and the default contents. That restores the 9 trailer etc	22:21
yigal	I tried with RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin, but I think there's something else I need to use?	22:21
Hukka	Yeah, that's just the programs, not the contents of the home	22:22
Hukka	Don't remember the filename, but it's out there	22:22
yigal	ok, one sec I'll throw names at you	22:22
Hukka	What was the page?	22:22
yigal	eMMC image	22:22
yigal	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	22:22
yigal	?	22:23
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Hukka	yigal: Yeah, that's the one	22:23
Hukka	The emmc image	22:24
yigal	cool, thought so :D	22:24
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chx	So anyone knows more about that n900 successor that guy was tweeting about the other day?	22:24
chx	my finger is twitching to buy a Veer :/	22:24
yigal	? sounds cool	22:24
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yigal	chx: :D	22:24
Hukka	chx: I imagine that if someone does, they can't tell	22:24
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Hukka	Besides, we've had N9 rumours for a year now sigh	22:25
chx	honestly, my problem with the n900 is that it's too large. the Veer looks tiiiiny	22:25
GeneralAntilles	http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/11/nokia-rm-680nokia-n950n9-passes-fcc-looks-like-the-qwerty-n9-leaked-from-last-year/	22:26
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chx	OH	22:26
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yigal	similar form factor but 4 row keyboard, thumbs UP	22:26
yigal	why 3 rows for a hacking device?	22:27
yigal	could never understand this	22:27
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chx	weight will decide. the 180gr of the n900 is killing me.	22:28
GeneralAntilles	yigal: keeps your fingers closer to the touchscreen.	22:28
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GeneralAntilles	As Maemo is very touch-oriented, this works out better.	22:28
yigal	ok, that type of use makes sense, thanks for a sensible rational	22:29
Venemo	chx, 180g is killing you???	22:29
yigal	lift some weights good on so many levels	22:29
chx	yes, a phone shouldnt be more than 100gr	22:30
chx	i still ues my E51 more because it's light	22:30
chx	Now come on I exercise daily that does not mean i like a 180gr brick in my pocket :/	22:30
Venemo	I never understand why people thing that 180g is heavy.	22:30
yigal	:D	22:30
GeneralAntilles	chx, a phone, maybe, but a pocketable laptop is something else. ;)	22:30
Venemo	20 kg may be heavy. 50 kg is definitely heavy. 180 g is not heavy. at all.	22:30
yigal	I have a viliv S5 390g, this is still fine with me	22:31
yigal	but I understand	22:31
* merlin1991 pokes X-Fade cloak?		22:33
yigal	30s more of downloading emmc image looking forward to getting my partition back	22:34
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yigal	yes, it's writing, I'm a happy man	22:37
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DocScrutinizer	>>In 1956, the world’s first partly automatic car phone system, Mobile System A (MTA), was launched in Sweden. MTA phones were composed of vacuum tubes and relays, and had a weight of 40 kg<<	22:49
DocScrutinizer	now THAT'S heavy	22:49
yigal	but who cares if it's attached to a car	22:49
RST38h	Not if it is permanently attached to a car	22:49
RST38h	heh	22:49
yigal	it's not like you have to heft all 40kg+	22:49
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* RST38h actually remembers transistor based systems like that		22:50
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yigal	I've heard carrying ~20% of one's weight continuously is quite good for endurance and overall strength	22:50
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yigal	so maybe that's the way to go, though that's more on the order of ~20kg at most	22:51
RST38h	Meanwhile, 100% of Fukushima Unit-1 rods are melted	22:51
yigal	so sad	22:52
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RST38h	so fun	22:52
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Hukka	rd: Apparently they have stopped covering it completely over here	22:53
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yigal	Hukka: here?	22:54
DocScrutinizer	one time in two years when a hope for somebody jumping up yelling "this is MOT a phone" - meh....	22:54
yigal	MOT or NOT?	22:55
DocScrutinizer	N900 definitely is the smallest lightest 600MHz 256MB RAM 32GB storage PC I ever touched	22:55
yigal	yes	22:55
DocScrutinizer	NOT of course	22:55
yigal	sorry I'm being a grammar nazi	22:55
Hukka	It's not grammar	22:55
Hukka	It's spelling...	22:55
Hukka	Sorry for being a semantic smartass	22:56
yigal	yes	22:56
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yigal	no that's syntax	22:57
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DocScrutinizer	yigal: that's been a typo	23:01
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DocScrutinizer	a simple mechanical 1-off typo	23:02
DocScrutinizer	at least on NY keyboard ;-P	23:02
yigal	:D	23:02
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DocScrutinizer	btw syntax definitions only apply loosely to natural speech	23:15
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DocScrutinizer	it even seems natural speech has a fuzzy dynamic syntax, if any	23:16
DocScrutinizer	...	23:16
DocScrutinizer	;-P	23:16
DocScrutinizer	imho	23:17
DocScrutinizer	even ore on IRC (and SMS)	23:17
DocScrutinizer	Nore	23:17
DocScrutinizer	XD	23:17
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yigal	DocScrutinizer: tru dat, 4 sure	23:50
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	23:54
RST38h	"Bin Laden wanted to attack U.S. on 9/11 anniversary" <== so sentimental!	23:54
DocScrutinizer	fine. I've not been sure about anybody getting my point	23:54
RST38h	"In one particularly macabre bit of mathematics, bin Laden's writings show him musing over just how many Americans he must kill to force the U.S. to withdraw from the Arab world."	23:55
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SpeedEvil	I'm surprised they haven't brought up his massive porn collection.	23:55
DocScrutinizer	hehe	23:55
SpeedEvil	Of him rogering pigs, or something.	23:56
RST38h	SPeed: probably confiscated it and are now enjoying it themselves	23:56
DocScrutinizer	completely useless. They've tried this with several al qaida dudes - arab world ignores it	23:56
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RST38h	ok, pigs no longer work, neither do skyscrapers.	23:57
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RST38h	will both sides take it to the next level? =)	23:57
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DocScrutinizer	nothing US can do will impress those fanatics. They don't even believe Al Qaida that bin laden is dead	23:57
RST38h	hey I do not even wholly believe bin Laden has ever been alive!	23:58
DocScrutinizer	when sth comes from the west, is related to the west, or involves actions of the west, it's for sure a hoax. At least for them	23:59
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