IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-05-01

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frozen_delcuk, i know, but i just want to load my n900 at my car radio, so I'm looking for one which is able to use the n900 as a usb device00:00
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BCMMwell, it's not really a special USB device00:01
BCMMin that respect00:01
BCMMbut i don't think it will work brilliantly - the radio will have to traverse the entire filesystem looking for music files00:02
BCMMbetter to get a cheap usb stick and keep music only on that00:02
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lcukBCMM, :) the entire MyDocs filesystem you mean00:05
BCMMthat is an entire filesystem00:06
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BCMMthough i did realise afterwards that it is not, perhaps, *the* filesystem00:06
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lcukBCMM, it is indeed, but it is not /00:06
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frozen_deBCMM, I want to use the usb slot for my n900 cause of mobile maps, so it wouldn't possible to use a cheap usb stick00:07
BCMMoh, to keep it charged...00:07
BCMMwell, imho, whatever radio you get, it's going to spend a really long time finding music after you connect it00:08
BCMMactually, there may be more complex ones available that can be told which directory to use now00:08
BCMMwhy do you want it to use USB like that? so you can use radio controls while driving?00:09
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jacekowskimobile maps on maemo suck a lot00:23
jacekowskii've tried using it instead of tomtom for couple days00:24
jacekowskiand nope,00:24
jacekowskii hate when it tells me to turn when i should be already turning and indicating at least couple seconds earlier00:24
cityLightsmc_teo: I cant get the calenderdb change event using dbus-scripts00:25
mc_teomaybe i should mention how ive never used dbus-scripts00:26
cityLightsam I suppose to see it?00:26
cityLightsI used: /root/ * * * * and prints out $@00:26
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Tronicjacekowski: I would recommend either Nokia Maps hacked w/ speech navigation support or Mappero.00:29
TronicPaid 80 € or so for the full version of Sygic Mobile Maps but I have only used it for a couple of weeks (about a year ago) because it is so crap.00:29
TronicSorry, 6 months ago.00:30
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ShadowJKThere's something strange going on with sygic and pulseaudio/gstreamer/mafw/whatever00:35
ShadowJKI've seen the voice being lagged from the visual by several seconds00:36
ShadowJKBut it only happens sometimes, and I'm not sure what triggers it00:36
TronicWith Nokia Maps it happens all the time.00:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you remember my bitching about pukeaudio? First thing I noticed PA is on my box was a delay of like days(!) between KDE putting a event sound and speakers playing it00:37
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ShadowJKI've had that happen too, but mostly that's been when other stuff has used alsa, and alsa is blocking instead of sharing :-)00:38
TronicDocScrutinizer: Everything consistently playing late, or just at some moment all the sounds from the last few days playing?00:38
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TronicThe former I have never seen, the latter happens with ALSA and others too if the sound card is blocked (e.g. by an application using S/PDIF pass-through).00:39
ShadowJKseems like sygic is using a separate thread for sound anyway, and I've seen it getting stuck eating 100% CPU all the time, which made the fps drop and delayed visual instructions too, and prevented sygic from exiting cleanly00:40
ShadowJKThat could be the library you need for pulseaudio spawning threads actually..00:42
DocScrutinizerwell, yeah. In my case anyway it seems PA is blocking itself by exclusively opening ALSA00:42
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ShadowJKor something else has done it :-)00:43
cityLightscan anyone here help me use dbus-scripts to hook calender db change event?00:43
ShadowJKit doesn't use dmix anyway, because the whole point of pulseaudio was to get away from dmix's bugs :-)00:44
ShadowJKbugs or "so hard to use right not even the people who wrote it can show how to use it"00:44
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jacekowskiTronic: nothing so far came close to normal tomtom00:48
MohammadAGis there a way to know what the architecture is from a shell?00:48
cityLightsmc_teo: how can I replace os.path.exists with subprocess ?00:48
* MohammadAG can't believe he forgot00:48
jacekowskiuname -m00:48
nox-MohammadAG, uname -m00:48
mc_teocityLights: why would you need to replace that?00:49
cityLightsyou asked me not to use os any more00:49
mc_teojust "from os import path" if thats the only from os you used00:50
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cityLightsMohammadAG: do you use dbus-scripts?00:50
ShadowJKbtw, if you external bluetooth receiver, there's a bug in maemo that makes sygic and maps not work properly :P00:51
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cityLightsguess I must go back to using gobject00:53
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MohammadAGcityLights, nope00:59
MohammadAGty jacekowski & nomis00:59
MohammadAGnox-*, sorry nomis00:59
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cityLightswish shapeshifter was here.....01:14
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* DocScrutinizer too01:39
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DocScrutinizercityLights: MohammadAG:02:09
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cityLightsjust about to go sleeping02:10
DocScrutinizer        """Checks if tweakr is installed and returns the profiles"""02:10
DocScrutinizer        try:02:10
DocScrutinizer            print "a"02:10
DocScrutinizer            state = subprocess.Popen(['dpkg-query', '-l', 'tweakr'],02:10
DocScrutinizer                                 stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=open(os.devnull, "w")).communicate(02:10
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DocScrutinizerand the most funny thing: this is from my N900 real sourcecode of the one where it works - on alarmed v2.1.2 it's not like that02:11
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DocScrutinizernow this *definitely* becomes an issue for CSSU02:12
DocScrutinizerseems tweakr is replacing the status menu applet for profile selection, as I can't imagine the original nokia one does same thing like 'my' alarmed02:14
cityLightsgood night02:15
DocScrutinizeryet it works to switch between custom profiles, while the dbus cmd profiled.listprofiles does NOT work02:15
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DocScrutinizernight cityLights02:15
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: PING02:15
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: what's up with alarmed and tweakr profiles?02:16
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DocScrutinizer\o/ and is frozen another time02:19
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DocScrutinizeralarmed:  Installed: 0.2.0-2       works with tweakr02:40
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DocScrutinizeralarmed:  Installed: 0.2.1-2    doesn't work with tweakr anymore02:40
DocScrutinizerfriggin funny thing:02:41
DocScrutinizerii  maemo-applet-profiles     0.56+0m5                  Profile control panel applet02:41
DocScrutinizerworks with tweakr :-o02:41
SpeedEvil:) Latest update of mbarcode doesn't crash.02:41
SpeedEvilNow - I should really dosomething with it.02:41
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mc_teoso DocScrutinizer, i am going to upload that script now02:43
mc_teowith the voice commands for media player02:43
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SpeedEvilmc_teo: Neat02:46
DocScrutinizerwhile I scratch my head what's wrong now of profiled and its dbus-interface, libprofile, maemo-applet-profiles, and alarmed-0.2.0-2 vs 0.2.1-202:46
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DocScrutinizer                    tweaker_profiles = subprocess.Popen(02:48
DocScrutinizer                            ['gconftool-2', '--all-dirs', '/system/tweakr'],02:48
DocScrutinizer                            stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate(02:48
DocScrutinizer                            )[0].split("\n")02:48
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ShadowJKWhat's alarmed? If it's .py it can't be installed by default :)02:48
mc_teocan i upload .pys to the forums?02:49
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: this ^^^ code is what is using """Checks if tweakr is installed and returns the profiles"""02:49
DocScrutinizermc_teo: sure, you can attach arbitrary files I think02:49
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and which obviously also is used by maemo-applet-profiles (a closed Nokia blob)02:50
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DocScrutinizerwhile def getAvailableProfiles():        return list(dbus.Interface(dbus.SessionBus().get_object('', '/com/nokia/profiled'), '').get_profiles())  fails on V0.2.1-202:51
DocScrutinizerand the corresponding dbus-send cmd (as found in phonecontrol) fails for me on 1.2 and 1.3cssu02:52
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DocScrutinizerso the dbus interface of profiled always been borked, while maemo-applet-profiles isn't using this and thus worked since beginning02:54
DocScrutinizerand shapeshifter - for obscure bizarre reason - decided to switch from the working to the non-working method on his last update02:54
infobotrumour has it, xyawn is nap02:55
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mc_teoDocScrutinizer: was that a joke?02:57
DocScrutinizererrrr what?02:57
DocScrutinizerno joke anywhere, but what do you think could have been ?02:58
mc_teoabout the arbutrary files02:58
mc_teoand no, they wont accept with .py extension02:58
DocScrutinizerthen rename it to .py.txt02:59
DocScrutinizeror zip it ;-P02:59
mc_teoill zip it02:59
mc_teoi need to include the dictionary too03:00
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> seems tweakr is replacing the status menu applet for profile selection, as I can't imagine the original nokia one does same thing like 'my' alarmed03:00
MohammadAGyes, you didn't know that?03:00
MohammadAGit's quite clear that it's not the stock applet :P03:00
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: not according to my dpkg -l03:00
DocScrutinizermhm, makes sense03:01
DocScrutinizerfriggin shit03:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, usually, replacements are unclean03:01
MohammadAGso it's probably just an mv old applet somewhere, mv new applet in place03:01
MohammadAG(most probably the .desktop files, that's why the applet loses the stock position)03:02
DocScrutinizerwe got that in CSSU?03:02
MohammadAGwhat's that exactly?03:02
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DocScrutinizeruser profiles03:02
MohammadAGthe applet? it's not a proper replacement03:02
DocScrutinizerhmm yeah03:03
MohammadAGyou can't control vibra from tweakr's applet03:03
DocScrutinizerthe fsckng profiled is closed03:03
MohammadAGtrue, but the applet can be rewritten properly03:03
DocScrutinizerfriggin vibra control03:03
MohammadAGsee maemo-statusmenu-fmtx03:03
MohammadAGprofiled has an API03:04
DocScrutinizerand I wonder why tweakr isn't using that for custom profiles then03:04
DocScrutinizeris there a compliant method to create and use custom profiles?03:05
MohammadAGapparently, no03:06
DocScrutinizerthat's strange03:06
MohammadAGindeed, there's a get profiles function03:07
MohammadAGif it was to be hardcoded to general and silent, I don't see why that's needed03:07
MohammadAGI wonder if setting the current profile to a non existent one creates it...03:08
MohammadAGhmm, interesting03:09
MohammadAGUbuntu 11.04 got some sort of kinetic scrolling in lists03:09
MohammadAGit's kind of neat03:09
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DocScrutinizermethod call sender=:1.27 -> serial=431 path=/com/nokia/profiled;; member=set_value03:11
DocScrutinizer   string "general"03:11
DocScrutinizer   string "email.alert.volume"03:11
DocScrutinizer   string "65"03:11
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DocScrutinizeris what tweakr applet replacement does03:12
DocScrutinizerit's kinda ouch03:13
BCMMcan anyone help with Qt/qmake packaging? i've done what i was told by
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MohammadAGI'd try set_value string:"foo" string:"email.alert.volume" string:"32"03:13
MohammadAGbut seriously Nokia, 32 is an int03:13
BCMMand it all works find apart from having decided to call the binary src03:13
BCMMand install it as /usr/bin/src03:13
MohammadAGopen the .pro file and look for target =03:14
MohammadAGor was it TARGET =...03:14
BCMMMohammadAG: thanks03:14
MohammadAGyeah, TARGET =03:14
BCMMTARGET = nothing right now, i guess that's where the binary name should go?03:14
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: will you pole profiled via dbus with a sharp stick, or should I?03:16
mc_teoi may go now03:16
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: thanks mate03:16
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, what exactly are you looking for?03:16
DocScrutinizercustom profiles in profiled03:16
MohammadAGnice, PC rebooted on its own03:17
DocScrutinizernight mc_teo03:17
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, here's my theory on it, since it replaces the stock applet it doesn't actually create new profiles, but rather creates "templates" that are set to the profile "general"03:17
MohammadAGso in effect, your custom profiles are just a shortcut to set new stuff on general03:18
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yes, that's exactly what tweakr does03:19
DocScrutinizerI'm interested in generic custom profiles other than general and silent, in profiled03:20
DocScrutinizeras you already mentioned above, there might be ways to create new profiles via profiled dbus API03:21
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DocScrutinizeror find where friggin profiled stores those two profiles and add new ones the hard way there03:21
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MohammadAGexcept the C api doesn't detail it03:22
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MohammadAGand the C api generally talks to DBus03:22
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MohammadAGyeah, I'm looking into that actually03:22
DocScrutinizerI grepped gconf but nuttin03:22
DocScrutinizerstrace profiled03:23
DocScrutinizerwell, apt suggested to me xyawn is a nap this time03:23
MohammadAGyeah, sec03:24
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MohammadAGlook in /etc/profiled03:25
MohammadAGthat wasn't too hard to guess03:25
DocScrutinizernow that's also not too hard to play with03:26
DocScrutinizernuke tweakr03:26
MohammadAGso [datatype] simply defines types, probably so the UI can create progress bars etc03:27
MohammadAGfallback is probably defaults, in case your ringtone's deleted etc03:27
MohammadAGand silent is.. well, silent03:27
MohammadAGbut where the f is general03:27
DocScrutinizeryep, and datatypes are for dbus03:27
DocScrutinizerat least03:27
DocScrutinizergeneral is fallback03:27
DocScrutinizerI'd guess03:28
MohammadAGoh, yeah03:28
MohammadAGyeah maybe03:28
MohammadAGit's just that I wasn't looking at _my_ N90003:28
MohammadAGso ringtone was Nokia Tune03:28
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DocScrutinizersame here, so sth's fishy03:28
MohammadAGlemme grep some stuff03:29
MohammadAGprofiled runs as user, so configs probably exist in ~ too03:30
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MohammadAGNokia-N900:/home/user/.profiled# cat custom.ini03:30
MohammadAG# custom profile values03:30
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DocScrutinizerduh, profiled runs as user??03:32
* DocScrutinizer highfives MohammadAG03:33
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DocScrutinizerok, some funny stuff to play with, tomorrow (or later, after my nap)03:34
DocScrutinizerlet's see if mission control says nap==tv, as usual03:35
MohammadAGNokia-N900:/home/user/.profiled# dbus-send --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/profiled
MohammadAGmethod return sender=:1.109 -> dest=:1.108 reply_serial=203:35
MohammadAG   array [03:35
DocScrutinizeris it truncated by you or by profiled?03:36
BCMMok, so how does one increment the -# number?03:36
BCMMi mean, from 0.1-1 to 0.1-2?03:36
MohammadAGdch -i?03:36
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, profiled03:37
MohammadAGI just added another profile to the config files03:37
MohammadAGI have to admit I killed profiled, not sure if that's necessary03:37
MohammadAGso who wants to donate their gtk skills and rewrites two applets?03:37
BCMMMohammadAG: thanks, thought that was *just* for editing the log03:38
MohammadAGyw BCMM, I used to edit that file manually when I first started packaging :P03:38
* DocScrutinizer suggests a 'strings profiled' to find a few depressing hardcoded profile names03:38
MohammadAGthey're not hardcoded03:38
BCMMMohammadAG: heh, are you why there's great big warnings in the wiki about doing that?03:39
MohammadAGthe applet names are, I'm guessing they check if profile == "general" show "General"03:39
MohammadAGor what the translated string is03:39
MohammadAGBCMM, maybe :P03:39
MohammadAGthough really, I always made sure all spaces are correct03:39
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MohammadAGso yeah, who wants to rewrite the two applets?03:40
BCMMi hadn't realised that making a .deb involves automated building03:40
MohammadAGthe one in the status menu, and the one in control panel03:40
BCMMi mean, i assumed you built stuff as normal, then put it in a deb03:40
DocScrutinizerthe friggin translate shit, that doesn't find your custom profile and makes profiled blow chunks03:40
BCMMthis is basically like writing a gentoo ebuild, only horrible :)03:40
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, if an applet is rewritten, it has to do that so as not to confuse users, but for new profiles, just show the raw string03:41
MohammadAGBCMM, ha, I pretty much thought the same about .sis files when I was a symbian user03:41
DocScrutinizeryeah but probably that's not like that in profiled03:41
BCMMnever used symbian or .sis files03:41
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, profiled behaves well03:41
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: try changing "silent" to solent"03:41
MohammadAGthe UI doesn't03:42
DocScrutinizersee what dbus tell you03:42
DocScrutinizeror general to feneral03:42
MohammadAGNokia-N900:/home/user/.profiled# dbus-send --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/profiled
MohammadAGmethod return sender=:1.138 -> dest=:1.137 reply_serial=203:43
MohammadAG   array [03:43
MohammadAG      string "solent"03:43
MohammadAG      string "test"03:43
MohammadAG   ]03:43
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MohammadAGyou're right03:46
MohammadAGthose are hardcoded03:46
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MohammadAGhaha, stock applet segfaults if a custom profile's set03:49
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MohammadAGNokia-N900:/home/user/.profiled# dbus-send --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/profiled
MohammadAGmethod return sender=:1.144 -> dest=:1.155 reply_serial=203:49
MohammadAG   string "test"03:49
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dangergrrlmapperio is pretty cool04:07
dangergrrlbut kinda difficult to figure out when the help page is offline04:07
dangergrrlit's looking like it's on a dev's home pc, tracerouts drops at a atm-dsl gateway04:08
dangergrrlpyradio is still my favorite program when riding my motorcycle04:09
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dangergrrlamazingly on tmobile i have very good luck streaming pandora in central texas04:10
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: translate("test") -> segfault04:12
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DocScrutinizeralso - regarding hardcoded - remember we had to kill -9 call-ui to keep it from writing back the ~/.osso/call-ui.ini without the USSD easteregg for *#-ena?04:16
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DocScrutinizerthat's an object that opens and reads *.ini in constructor, manages any changes in local cache, and writes back the current setting in destructor04:17
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I can switch profiles successfully now04:17
MohammadAG(not with the UI of course)04:17
MohammadAGbut I just set different ringtones to "test", and set that profile, and the ringtone sounded correctly04:18
DocScrutinizerso the status applet is still borked04:18
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, the UI team is bored04:18
MohammadAGor was, depending on where they are now04:18
MohammadAGbtw, it doesn't segfault now, it only displays general and silent04:18
MohammadAG/etc is on a real filesystem right? that means we could simply change permissions on /etc/profiled in postinst, so we can write new profiles to it04:20
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DocScrutinizeryes, /etc is a plain simple fs04:20
MohammadAGI could make a quick rewrite of the UI, but I hate Qt for applets04:20
DocScrutinizerpatch the tweakr rewrite?04:21
MohammadAGnah, a bit messy imo04:21
DocScrutinizerthe applet I meant04:21
MohammadAGI like Gtk, I just hate the process of having to make, transfer to device, touch the desktop dir etc so I could reload the applet04:21
* MohammadAG ponders04:22
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MohammadAGhmm, cool, I don't need to use dbus04:23
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MohammadAGthis should actually be a quick rewrite04:24
MohammadAGgimme 5/10 mins04:24
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DocScrutinizeryou are one nasty hacker :-D04:24
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internetishardremember those reports of remotely turning on the mic on cells for eavesdropping. I don't remember how they said it worked. I'm guessing that is a lot harder on platforms like maemo05:06
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DocScrutinizerit's basically impossible05:07
chxtell us more05:08
chxthis is interesting05:08
chxis it impossible on Maemo or in general? (i guess the later is impossible to answer.)05:08
internetishardDocScrutinizer they claimed firmware was 'uploaded'05:08
internetishardwhich might be possible on old cheap flip phones that did that05:08
internetishardBut I don't see any equivalent exploits with smarter phones05:08
DocScrutinizeryou need firmware support for that, and on maemo/n900 you need even system support05:09
DocScrutinizerand btw this will eat your battery exactly like a normal call05:10
ShadowJKMore interesting would be if mameo support the PTC of 3G, and you hooked eaves-dropping into that05:11
* ShadowJK wonders if that PTC thing is still being used or if walkie talkie manufacturers came out with digital designs05:13
ShadowJKOr maybe the users in .fi got permission to migrate to TETRA05:14
* ShadowJK shrugs05:14
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, what does it say when you click the profiles button?05:17
MohammadAGactually, what does the button say, Accept/Save/Ok?05:17
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MohammadAGnvm, Done05:19
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MohammadAGhildon_dialog_new_with_buttons is deprecated and should not be used in newly-written code.05:30
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MohammadAGhow old is the stock applet exactly...05:30
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dangergrrli jknow i'm useless05:37
dangergrrli am looking at ideas of marketing motojournalism05:37
dangergrrlmy n900 seems really good for it05:38
ShadowJKWhat is motojournalism?05:39
dangergrrlwriting about places to ridfe motorcycles05:39
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dangergrrlmappero saves gps tracks well05:40
dangergrrlcamera geotags05:40
dangergrrlpen does handwritten notes05:40
dangergrrli have written my grocery list in pen05:40
ShadowJKNever heard of "pen" before :-)05:41
SpeedEvilosm2go lets you enter details aboutthebuilt environment into crowdsourced maps05:41
dangergrrlpen is nice05:43
dangergrrlit's just a touchscreen doodle05:43
dangergrrlbut it is nice for handwritten notes05:43
dangergrrlor grocery lists05:43
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* SpeedEvil wants to get a barcodeything going with his supermarketrs API05:44
dangergrrlthe barcode thing is kinda neat05:44
dangergrrlit doesn't like supermarket codes much but you could help that05:45 - has a API available to search product by barcode, and enables you to add it to your basket05:45
dangergrrldoes it work with mbarcode?05:49
SpeedEvilIF I wreote the correct plugin05:51
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SpeedEvilNo time.06:01
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pupnik<3 n90008:03
pupnikamazing how fast these computers are08:03
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robbiethe1stpupnik: See
robbiethe1stVery awesome08:09
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pupnikty robbiethe1st08:26
pupnika bit more information please08:26
pupnikahh ty08:26
pupniki love waking up in the morning08:31
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pupnikbeing grateful to be alive (pic)
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pupnikoh sweet, someone made a proper netstat package09:23
pupnikthank you maemo community09:23
pupnikn900 is so much more complete than n80009:23
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RST38hHey pupnik, you will love this one:
pupnikwill have to study that when brain is free thanks RST38h09:32
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TronicRST38h: Are you sure the article is worth reading? It apparently misses the biggest reason for skyrocketing food prices.09:44
TronicThat is, biofuels.09:45
ruskiebiofuels should be abolished09:46
* Tronic used find for various words, didn't read the article.09:46
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RST38hTronic: Well, it is from the Foreign Policy Journal, which raises probability that it is drivel09:49
RST38hTronic: On the other hand, it views the problem from an unexpected angle, which makes it interesting09:50
RST38hAnd no, I am not buying the biofuel theory: there is just a small bunch of food stuffs usable for the biofuel. You will probably get better output by extractign methane from your own feces.09:51
ruskieRST38h, yes... small bunch but they get money for growing them sadly09:56
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pupniki need to get kb/s or packets/s or anything by my game's process10:29
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pupniki still think my icon smiley is awesome and historic and epic
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pupniki'm just a pixel-pushin fool
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keks-nIs there any tool that searches files in maemo packages?10:51
keks-nI'm looking for some header files but I don't know where they are10:51
keks-nCertainly I can write a script that will download all of them and build some kind of a database. But it will take time10:52
pupnikheaders are in -dev packages10:52
keks-nBut in _which_ of them?10:53
pupnikwhat are you seeking?10:53
pupnikand you have typed that into google?10:54
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pupniklibegl ...10:55
pupnikkeks-n the program you want is "apt-file"10:57
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keks-nIt's not installable11:01
keks-nOK, will install in a chroot environment and add maemo repo's11:02
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shyotyhi ppl, uploaded an update to a Pomodoro timer app few weeks ago, it's in testing and I'd appreciate if some of you would take the time to test it and if the quality looks ok give it thumbs up:
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pupnikchem|st: none of my replies show up on 'new posts' search results?11:16
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: have you read the stuff from the mailing list?12:20
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: seems that raster is not the only thing borked in qt 4.7.212:20
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pupnikRetro Computer magazine cover (funny, sfw)
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cityLightsMohammadAG: may private msg you?12:37
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keks-nLinux way: if your program doesn't work with system libraries, change the libraries12:44
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keks-nAnd now I'm compiling my own version of libgtk12:45
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pupnikkeks-n: you know any SDL-opengl stuff?12:46
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pupnikmy font is awesome13:05
SpeedEvilIt looks like comic sans from here.13:06
pupniki have to readjust all the widgets for it13:07
pupniki can see why people want higher level tools for placing stuff on screen13:07
pupnikit's really a lot of work to make it look good13:07
SpeedEvilIs anyione aware of any open-source http compressors?13:08
SpeedEvilNot just stream compressors like ssh13:08
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pupnikgahh segfault13:09
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cityLightsIs anyone here a nokia employee , or are all freelancers14:18
cityLightsI am seeking work , and dont know what is going on14:18
psycho_oreoswork within nokia?14:18
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SpeedEvilI think Nokia is notemployingnew people.14:20
SpeedEvilUnless maybe you're an ostritch who's programmed WP714:20
psycho_oreosand would kiss Stephen Elop's toes without hesitation14:21
pupnikelop is evil14:22
cityLightsso all ppl here are coding in private companies on the meamo platform?14:23
psycho_oreosnah he's just another Microsoft's little puppet that the nokia's board of directors hired.14:23
psycho_oreosnot all of us are coders, not all of us are working on maemo platform14:24
pupniknot good for finland14:24
SpeedEvilcityLights: Speaking personally, I'm unemployed due to disability, and have done documentation work on the wiki, as well as poking people to develop stuff.14:24
SpeedEvilAnd giving them links to useful resources.14:24
psycho_oreosit was what nokia's board of directors wanted. I'm sure they must have been bored out of their head to hire an ex-microsoft puppet14:25
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fralspsycho_oreos: or maybe us investors forced them to pick someone from NA ;)14:36
pupnikthe maemo people had the right idea14:37
pupnikthey were on the right track14:37
pupnikbut they got killed by politics14:37
pupnikevil people14:37
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compengihello, can i set a phone lock when sim card it not inserted?14:42
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robbiethe1stI'm pretty sure you can14:43
compengiokay, how14:44
robbiethe1stuh... same way as usual?14:44
robbiethe1stgo into settingd14:44
robbiethe1stlock code14:44
psycho_oreosfrals, I don't think there's any sort of excuse to make up for the mess that has been caused to this date. Afterall I'm sure the board of directors couldn't care less about investors telling them that we should hire someone from ex-microsoft14:45
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compengirobbiethe1st, automatical lock will lock the screen after the specified time interval, correct?14:46
RST38hYou all assume that the goal is to continue making money developing phones14:47
RST38hAlthough it is most likely that the current goal is simply to sell the company off to Microsoft, either as a whole or just the tastiest pieces like IP portfolio14:48
RST38hThis will still make investors money, probably more money than it would have made otherwise14:48
RST38hWill also be good for Microsoft which gets to peruse decades of research done by Nokia14:49
RST38hAs to all the "open source activists", they are not making anyone money either way, so they can go suck a penguin instead. =)14:50
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jacekowskigoal is to make money doing whatever makes money14:51
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psycho_oreosthe brighter alternative would have been to ally with the underdog whose core is quite similar to that of the maemo platform.14:53
RST38hlike webos?:)14:53
psycho_oreosandroid, webos pretty much got gobbled up by HP14:54
fralshow the hell is android underdog in smartphones?14:55
jacekowskiit is14:56
psycho_oreosI'm just comparatively putting android as underdog because it wasn't `the chosen one' by nokia14:56
jacekowskiit's like almost linux but not really14:56
psycho_oreosinstead nokia went for something that's nowhere near the likes of linux14:56
* RST38h sighs14:56
psycho_oreosfurthermore ditching symbian14:56
RST38hthank you, captain Obvious14:57
psycho_oreosI can't see how symbian is, at least it wasn't the case with s60v3 with extensions that one would normally find on the likes of windows14:57
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pupnikfunny how usb decides to charge sometimes15:17
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pupnikmaybe i need more room humidity15:17
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, didn't you play with N8 before?15:45
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, yeah, my mom has one15:54
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cityLightsMohammadAG: are you working for nokia? or are you freelacer?15:59
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, just wondering if you happen to know that N8 has locked bootloader or not16:07
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chem|stpupnik: link pls16:16
chem|stpupnik: I cant use searchids16:22
chem|stpupnik: is it just newposts search?16:22
pupnikahh it transforms to a searchid16:22
chem|stwhat is the threads name?16:23
pupnikahh it was under development16:23
chem|stsome folders do not show in new search16:23
pupnikthat could be it16:23
chem|stpupnik: that does look like a game client16:24
chem|stwhat is this about in "less than 10 words"16:25
chem|stso a game16:25
chem|stfor which OS?16:25
pupnikmac also iirc16:26
chem|stas OS/Platform devel is the wrong place...16:26
chem|stand this specific thread?16:26
chem|stis it a port for fremantle16:26
pupnikthere's a Games > Development?16:26
pupniksorry if it's in the wrong spot - can you move the thread to a more appropriate place?16:27
chem|stthis kind of stuff goes to games16:27
pupnikok can you move it?16:27
chem|stand gets a [devel] in front16:27
chem|stis it for fremantle then?16:27
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pupnikfor n90016:28
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pupnikno diablo version forthcoming right now16:28
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chem|stpupnik: for release make a new thread [announce] foobar released version x.x16:29
chem|stso devel and release info do not get messed up16:29
chem|stthread moved16:29
chem|stpupnik: is it in extras devel yet16:30
pupniknot yet16:30
chem|stpupnik: where are you from btw16:30
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chem|stpupnik: more detailed?16:31
pupniknear frankfurt16:31
chem|stpupnik: more detailed?16:31
chem|stused to live in DA and HP16:31
chem|stand my girl is from bockenheim/ffm16:32
pupniknice, i had one in bockenheim too16:32
chem|stgood girls^^^16:32
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infobotSphinx is a speaker-independent large vocabulary continuous speech recognizer under Berkeley's style license.
mc_teohas to think about that one16:52
mc_teothe amount of people on here16:53
mc_teoyet a lot of people never say anything16:53
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mc_teohas anyone tried that demo for speech recognition yet?16:54
mc_teoheh, ive 7 posts and 23 thanks16:54
* SpeedEvil wishes dragon dictate or similar was available.16:54
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mc_teoi envision this to work like so:16:56
mc_teoa single sphinx process16:56
mc_teowith a database of vocabuary, sorted by app16:56
mc_teoand a system specific vocab too16:57
mc_teoso on a button press, the microphone input is piped to sphinx16:57
mc_teowhich raises something to make the system aware of this16:58
mc_teoi have no knowledge of underlying systems at all16:59
mc_teotherefore would dbus messages be suitable for this?16:59
mc_teoif i understand correctly, when a sms is recieved, a dbus message gets sent16:59
SpeedEvilIt's complex.16:59
SpeedEvilWhat happens when an app is in the background?17:00
SpeedEvilWill it want to listen to events?17:00
SpeedEvilIOr only in the foreground?17:00
mc_teoonly in foreground17:00
SpeedEvilThere are signals that can tell you the foreground app - I forget what they are though.17:00
mc_teoonly system specific will be system wide17:01
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mc_teoalso, i was wondering, would having a second process catering for actually commanding and vocabuary be better?17:01
mc_teoas pocketsphinx is just the engine itself17:02
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Venemo_N900good afternoon17:02
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mc_teoand the second process takes the output from sphinx, and deals with commands or that17:02
mc_teoand deals with rasing any dbus commands that need to be raised17:03
mc_teodbus messages*17:03
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Venemo_N900mc_teo: excuse me, I'm late in the conversation. what are you talking about?17:04
mc_teoand also accertains wheither % of match is high enough to be counted as a valid match17:04
mc_teoVenemo_N900: pocketsphinx17:04
SpeedEvilRpobably wise to seperate things into two processes use, so you can do system specivic stuff in one17:04
Venemo_N900mc_teo: what's pocketsphinx?17:04
chem|stVenemo_N900: speechrecognition17:04
mc_teoand possibilities for system wide deployment17:05
chem|st~tell Venemo_N900 about sphinx17:05
mc_teoatm, i am mainly using python purely for speed of development17:06
mc_teoas i am in last year of school, the pressure is on17:06
SpeedEvilUnrelated - zombie kitten apocalypse.17:07
mc_teobut during summer, i shall start using the auld c++ again17:07
Venemo_N900mc_teo: sounds good stuff17:07
mc_teoto reduce memory footprint, i think this needs to be c++17:08
mc_teowell just not python anyway17:08
SpeedEvilIf it's not using more than a few percent of sphynxes memory and CPU17:09
Venemo_N900python may be good for prototyping, then when it gets more serious you could make a rewrite in cpp17:09
mc_teothats what i think will happen17:10
mc_teoanyway, i have to go now17:10
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kerio*rewrite the cpu-bound parts in c17:12
kerioand when i say "c" i mean "probably in cython"17:12
SpeedEvilrewrite the CPU-bound parts for DSP17:12
Venemo_N900SpeedEvil: how can I make some code to run on the dsp?17:13
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SpeedEvilVenemo_N900: As I understnad, it's not really simple.17:13
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Venemo_N900SpeedEvil: I once tried to investigate about it. found some packages related to the dsp, all of which are closed source.17:14
Venemo_N900there's also a 'gstreamer-dsp' which is probably responsible for utilizing the video/audio decoding on the dsp17:15
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SpeedEvilmay be interesting17:16
Venemo_N900will check it out when I get home. I'm on a pretty crappy 2G connection here.17:17
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cityLightsVenemo_N900: can you help me with python and dbus?17:20
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Venemo_N900cityLights: I've never written anything in python17:21
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cityLightsAs I got no replay, I tried reading the logs to understand if any of the members here earn a living by selling maemo related software17:22
Venemo_N900most of the Maemo-related software are created by enthusiasts and hobbysts and is open source17:23
cityLightsso most ppl here are students?17:23
Venemo_N900there are some apps for sale in the ovi store for Maemo, but I doubt you could "earn a living" with it.17:23
Venemo_N900if you however write apps with Qt, then you can target other platforms too17:24
Venemo_N900so Qt is more likely to earn you a living17:24
cityLightsis this why developers commonly ask here about qt?17:24
cityLightsneed I master QT for that reason?17:25
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Venemo_N900depends on what your purpose is17:25
zerojayI don't think anyone in the history of Maemo has attempted to earn a living making software for it.17:25
zerojayAt least, I hope not.17:25
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: the DSP itself is well known afaik, incl cmdset etc17:25
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: sure, but how do I actually make some code run on it?17:26
DocScrutinizerhehe, that's the magic17:26
Venemo_N900and are you a good magician?17:26
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: teach me to do magic :P17:26
DocScrutinizertbh I have no real clue. I guess TI has some tools, no idea if they are free or commercial17:27
Venemo_N900well I 'guess' too, but I don't have any facts17:28
DocScrutinizerthe DSP core is a native TI 32xxxx I guess17:28
DocScrutinizerspruf98 SoC user manual should give a starting point17:28
DocScrutinizeranyway don't get fooled! the DSP is not always the better alternative to the ARM core17:30
DocScrutinizerit's also consuming power, much power17:31
DocScrutinizerso if it isn't for mere speed, the DSP isn't really interesting17:31
Venemo_N900so what does the dsp do faster than the cpu?17:32
TriztcityLights; why do you assume that most here would be students?17:33
DocScrutinizerit's a damn MULADD machine17:33
DocScrutinizerFFT etc17:33
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, what does that mean?17:33
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DocScrutinizerall sorts of matrix operations I think are DSP domain17:34
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Venemo_N900about a week ago a guy at uni contacted me to help him with dsp programming17:35
cityLightsTrizt: cause ppl need to earn a living, then work a lot and have less time to write open source code17:35
DocScrutinizeras the name says: Digital Signal Processing17:36
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cityLightsstudents have more free time to that extent17:36
Venemo_N900I told him I've never in my life programmed a dsp... but then it turned out all he needs is some help with c?17:36
DocScrutinizerSignal here is anything from audio streams to mpeg17:36
derfTI has enough free tools to get code working on the DSP.17:36
derfAt least for the N900.17:37
TriztcityLights; you can earn a living on opensoource, see those working for RedHat for example17:37
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DocScrutinizerbut again, playback of mp3 is more lightweight on ARM than it is on DSP17:37
Venemo_N900derf: do you know that for a fact?17:37
derfVenemo_N900: I've written and run code on the DSP, so yes.17:37
Venemo_N900I would guess  that the chip can decode mp3 in hardware.17:38
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DocScrutinizerit can, but that's a useless execise17:38
Venemo_N900derf: that sounds good :)17:38
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: why would it be useless?17:38
TriztDocScrutinizer; but most of the cpu power to play mp3 is eaten by pulsaudio?17:38
DocScrutinizerthe DSP is less power economic than the ARM with smartreflex17:39
DocScrutinizerI guess17:39
Venemo_N900maybe so17:39
DocScrutinizerDSP is only useful for mere speed of MP17:39
Venemo_N900but the n900 doesn't have a working smartreflex anyway17:39
DocScrutinizerto free the ARM to do more useful things same time17:39
DocScrutinizersleeping isn't a useful thing for ARM17:40
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: SR is a bunch of measures17:40
Venemo_N900you can sort of turn on smartreflex and watch the sw fall apart17:40
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DocScrutinizerthe part not working on N900 is the automatic core voltage adjustment17:40
Venemo_N900there was a bugreport about this on bmo17:40
DocScrutinizerthere are several other SR measures in chipdesign itself17:41
DocScrutinizerlike immediate shutdown of unused subblocks17:41
Venemo_N900so what is the two things that you can turn on/off from the config?17:41
cityLightswhat is SR? what is smartreflex?17:42
Venemo_N900cityLights: SR=SmartReflex17:42
DocScrutinizerThe SoC has a dedicated I2C connection to TWL4030 power management unit to automatically adjust the voltage regulators according to CPU clock etc. This doesn't work reliably on N90017:43
Venemo_N900cityLights: as DocScrutinizer said, it's a set of powersaving measures on the TI Soc17:43
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: is it a software/driver issue or a hw fault?17:43
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ShadowJKprobably both :)17:44
DocScrutinizerthat's probably a hw bug. But not much of a problem, as you always can control the voltage regulators in sw17:44
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DocScrutinizerI guess due to some layout- or buffering-design the regulators are too slow to keep CPU stable, on SR-auto17:46
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DocScrutinizerso you do this control in sw and a bit more relaxed, to keep the core voltage stable17:46
DocScrutinizerresults in CPU core voltage kept at a bit higher values a few percent longer than on auto-SR17:47
DocScrutinizerover all impact is - my humble guess - <0.1% on battery life17:48
Venemo_N900well, my experience is this:17:48
Venemo_N900when I enabled it (whatever that two config entried do), I got about 20-30% improvement on battery17:49
DocScrutinizerduh, that's rather amazing17:49
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Venemo_N900however with that enabled, the software had a bad habbit of cashing when the cpu was under high load.17:50
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DocScrutinizerif you're interested, I'd like to tell you a story about a bug in Openmoko Freerunner hardware, that might somehow be similar to the SR bug17:50
Venemo_N900this is pretty similar to what others have experienced, the only thing varying was the rate at wich the crashes occoured17:51
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: sure, tell me :)17:51
* ShadowJK notices no change in power consumption or crash rates when enabling SR17:51
DocScrutinizerthe calypso modem chip on FR has a power management Unit as well. It has some regulators, that have a voltage output and a sense input17:52
DocScrutinizerthe design rules say you have to route your traces from output to the modem chip's VDD, and from there back to the sense input so the sense is seeing same voltage as modem17:53
DocScrutinizerour layouter wasn't aware and shorted the output and input with a minimum length trace, and from there routed another trace to the modem17:54
ShadowJKheh :-)17:54
Venemo_N900I would have thought that such mistakes are found before a release17:54
DocScrutinizerthe result was the modem got instable transitions from 32kHz oscillator to 16MHz oscillator whenever switching to and from sleep-4 state, which resulted in deep sleep losing connection to BTS17:55
DocScrutinizerthis is known as the #1024 bug17:55
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: it isn't as it depends on what the BTS tells the modem to do for deep-sleep17:56
DocScrutinizerand it only happened at low temperatures ;-P17:56
Venemo_N900for the record, here is the maemo bug i was talking about:
povbotBug 7633: Enable SmartReflex on N900 by default17:57
DocScrutinizertook us like 2 years to find the bug17:57
Venemo_N900noone could really tell what /sys/power/sr_vdd1_autocomp and /sys/power/sr_vdd2_autocomp do.17:58
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, oh it looks correct in the schematics but buggy in layout?17:58
DocScrutinizerwell, not really, our brilliant chinese EE folks even placed a 0R in that long trace - to measure current, pffff - so it was obvious even in schematics, if you look closely18:00
DocScrutinizerthe fix been to increase a 10uF buffer to 20uF and that instability in sleep4 went away18:01
DocScrutinizerthe right fix of course would've been to have a correct layout and nuke that 0R18:02
frozen_desomeone here using his n900 as an usb device in his car for music? (which radio?)18:03
DocScrutinizerI guess the voltage regulation + SR-auto has some faintly similar issue18:04
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: but how could the layouter afford to be not aware of the design rules?18:04
DocScrutinizercould aslo be too much buffering, so valtage stays too high when it should drop, which might even destroy CPU18:04
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: don'r ask, please don't ask18:05
Venemo_N900okay :P18:05
Venemo_N900well anyway, the decision was to not enable smartreflex on an N900 fw update - they are looking into it for "harmattan devices"18:06
DocScrutinizeras a westerner you're all the time buffled by the expertise of eastern EE. Sometimes brilliant, sometimes ignorant, you simply can't believe that's the same person18:07
Venemo_N900how did the chinese get involved in OM?18:07
ShadowJKat that point in time I think Harmattan device was expected to have the next version of omap3 with more bugfixes and 1000MHz capable18:07
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: FIC and so OM are located in Taipei18:08
Venemo_N900I thought OM was a European company. hm.18:08
DocScrutinizernot at all18:08
Venemo_N900okay then18:08
DocScrutinizerthe heads are all westerners18:08
DocScrutinizermostly USA and Germany, some GB18:09
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Venemo_N900anyway, I would suspect the linux driver as the point of failure for SR. maybe the same guy wrote the driver who did for the accelerometer for meego... :P18:09
DocScrutinizer90% of crew were Chinese18:09
ShadowJKany idea how that wikireader is working out for them?18:10
DocScrutinizerprobably not really great. Last time I've seen it under OEM brand at Conrad electronics here in germany18:10
ShadowJKI assume Conrad isn't massmarket?18:11
DocScrutinizerit actually is18:11
DocScrutinizerlargest Electronics store in Germany18:11
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DocScrutinizerbut real electronics, not a white/brown ware store18:12
ShadowJKwtf, kindle is only $14018:12
DocScrutinizerthe OEM is Medion18:13
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Venemo_N900btw, a few days ago I've found the source code of Diablo's Hildon desktop18:15
Venemo_N900it's orders of magnitude simpler than that of Fremantle's18:15
RST38hno shit18:16
MohammadAGwtf is status-menu-applet-profiles.c:35: error: expected ')' before '*' token18:16
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: pastebin da code18:16
MohammadAG<psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, just wondering if you happen to know that N8 has locked bootloader or not18:16
MohammadAGI think there's an open bootloader18:17
MohammadAGcityLights, no, I don't work for Nokia18:17
Venemo_N900I wouldn't bet on it.18:17
ShadowJKit'd probably be the first symbian phone with unlocked bootloader18:17
RST38hand E7 would then be the last symbian phone18:18
MohammadAGsomeone pointed me at it once, I didn't look into it since the N8's not that interesting18:18
ShadowJKRST38h, they released X1 after E7 didn't they?18:19
RST38hDunno, have not seen X118:19
Venemo_N900it would be a lot more interesting if it had a better cpu and a better screen18:19
RST38h128x160 display, probably not a Symbian phone18:19
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ShadowJKE6, X7, C7 :-)18:21
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MohammadAGVenemo_N900, nvm, it was a typo18:22
ShadowJKIt's kind of depressing in the list of newest phones, and the first page doesn't fit all that much on my n900 screen, there are 3 different symbian versions18:22
RST38hShadowJK: Meanwhile, it is time to start figuring out where to jump to18:22
* ShadowJK has extra N900 in a drawer :-)18:23
RST38hShadowJK: I am still hoping to get my hands onto an N950 and use it for a year or so, but afterwards...18:23
DocScrutinizer(wikireader) I'd really like to know if they kept the hacker outfit I gave to wikireader - like footprint to retrofit miniUSB18:23
ShadowJKto use after this one either ejects usb port, or desolders its cellmodem18:23
RST38hresourceful! alterego's has given its ghos^H^H^Husb port yesterday.18:24
derfRST38h: You will become RST38h of Droid, of course.18:24
DocScrutinizerdesolder cmt?? o.O18:24
derfResistence is futile.18:24
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, seems other people are getting the "crossed out sim icon" syndrome too18:25
GAN900RST38h, here's to hoping the market will look completely different in a year.18:25
DocScrutinizeraah, k. brken solder points18:25
ShadowJKand their devices are progressing (er, regressing) the exact same way mine did18:25
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RST38hderf: yea, hopefully there will be some 5" droids around18:25
RST38hGAN: Nah, it is like a pool game, the balls cannot jump or teleport18:26
DocScrutinizerquite possible. Reflow of cmt is partially hard18:26
Venemo_N900RST38h: there are 5" droid tablets18:26
derfRST38h: The form factor of the Droid2 isn't that bad.18:26
RST38hVenemo: Streak only18:26
DocScrutinizerand thermal stress at a max with those components18:26
derfThe only problem is it runs Android.18:26
RST38hVenemo: But it has got old hw18:26
Venemo_N900RST38h: archos has some18:26
ShadowJKAt the end I could reliably crash cellmo by lightly pinching my n900, at the 'h' key on the keyboard18:26
RST38hderf: Need 4.3"+ display, also scared of Moto messing things up18:27
Venemo_N900RST38h: Archos 5 and Archos 43 look pretty well18:27
RST38hVenemo: no cell phone there18:27
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: definitely a bug that could get fixed with a hot air reflow gun18:27
Venemo_N900RST38h: I thought we're talking about tablets18:27
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, Nokia Care replaced it with a new device18:27
RST38hVenemo: I am talking about a single device I can carry18:27
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sure18:27
Venemo_N900RST38h: ah, sorry then18:28
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: disassemble, reflow, test, reflow, test, assemble: 3h. Mainboard swap: 30min + ~60$ for the board18:29
ShadowJKthey swapped entire device18:29
RST38heasier this way18:30
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DocScrutinizerso the diff between mainboard and device cost is lower than the time to disassembel and swap and reassemble18:30
RST38hno need to teach the drones how to handle the soldering iron18:30
RST38halso nullifies the probability that they will break something else while fixing your cellmo18:31
Venemo_N900yeah, they replaced mine too when it was faulty18:31
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DocScrutinizerwhen my FPC broke, they actually replaced the FPC incl camera, LED, ALS and proxy sensor - and managed to get a small almost invisible dent into touchpad18:35
ShadowJKVenemo_N900, what happened to yours?18:36
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Venemo_N900ShadowJK: I accidentally dropped it on concrete18:38
ShadowJKatleast in fixing industrial automation the components are fist sized and cosmetics secondary :)18:39
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Venemo_N900ShadowJK: it began to behave glitchy, to an extent where it wasn't able to stay turned on for more than 2 minutes.18:39
ShadowJKdid screen turn white then fade out?18:40
DocScrutinizerthat's the time where JTAG comes in18:40
Venemo_N900ShadowJK: of course I "forgot" to tell them that I dropped it. according to DocScrutinizer, the device should have survived that kind of drop18:40
Venemo_N900ShadowJK: nope, it didn't18:40
SpeedEvilI think I've dropped mine 4 times, and thrown it across the room twice.18:41
ShadowJKbecause that would have been easy to fix18:41
Venemo_N900ShadowJK: it simply kept crashing, sometimes even displayed all kinds of visual artifacts. even a reflash didn't fix it18:41
DocScrutinizerbroken solder joint18:42
DocScrutinizeror - even worse - broken chip case18:42
SpeedEvilI wonder how many errors are due to internal component fractures18:42
Venemo_N900or the NAND memory became borked... who knows?18:42
MohammadAGwhat's the button group that can only have one button clicked called?18:42
ShadowJKradio buttona?18:42
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DocScrutinizerradio buttons18:43
* ShadowJK suddenly realizes why it's called radio button18:43
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: there are also "toggle buttons"18:43
Venemo_N900ShadowJK: enlighten us :)18:43
ShadowJKI recently saw an "Empire" radio from 1943 :)18:44
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sure - mw, sw, fm18:44
ShadowJKThe buttons that select frequency band cause other buttons to  pop up18:44
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ShadowJKso that you only select one band :)18:44
Venemo_N900ah, right18:44
DocScrutinizerpff, youngsters18:45
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DocScrutinizerit's been the way they built radios til the mid 80s18:46
ShadowJKI wonder where my radio is18:46
pupnikyetifoot's shoestore!
ShadowJKI had it repaired about 5 times :(18:46
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, how does it know which buttons are in one group?18:47
MohammadAGin Qt, I just have to add radio buttons to the same widget18:47
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DocScrutinizermy last radio had a 3pos switch for modulation "am/fm/ssb" and a digit keypad to enter the frequency from 100k to 108MHz18:48
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* ShadowJK needs an antenna18:49
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DocScrutinizerhad quite a few18:49
DocScrutinizeroh YOU need an antenna18:50
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: possibly it works the same way. I've never used them really, so I dunno.18:50
ShadowJKI'm guessing a reel of CAT-5e isn't a good aerial even if unwinded18:51
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: might work as any other wire18:51
Venemo_N900 ver interesting18:53
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GAN900derf, seems to be a common ailment these days. :\18:58
derfI mean, I guess it could be worse.19:01
GAN900Could be Windows Phone 619:02
GAN900But at least WP is upfront about how evil it is.19:02
Venemo_N900GAN900: what do you mean?19:02
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GAN900Android just sabotages Open Source.19:03
GAN900While pretending to be its friend19:03
derfI don't think anyone in the actual Open Source community is fooled.19:03
GAN900While it's really about feeding Google's advertising machine with the blood of duped OS advocates.19:03
GAN900derf, you weren't at LFSF last year. :P19:04
Venemo_N900android is just horseshit19:04
derfGAN900: This is true.19:04
GAN900derf, but even if those core people get it19:04
GAN900The next generation of programmers and users don't19:04
derfYeah. That is the part that worries me.19:04
derfThe OS as it is right now will not exist in 20 years.19:05
derf*OS movement19:05
GAN900It's not really OK to have open as one of your big selling points then delay the Honeycomb AOSP so your industry partners can capitalize on it.19:05
GAN900Hopefully that'll be because it isn't necessary, rather than because it's been crushed.19:06
RST38hGAN: Honeycomb is apparently a rushed mess19:06
derfEverything Google does is a rushed mess.19:06
RST38hGAN: So, the reasons for not opening it might be purely technical19:06
derfRST38h: Don't bet on it.19:06
GAN900RST38h, thus: Release Early, Release Often. ;)19:06
RST38hGAN: This only works with free stuff released with no guarantees19:06
derfI'll give you one other good reason, though this is purely speculation: IP.19:06
RST38hderf: yea, bt *what* IP?19:07
derfWhat doesn't actually matter.19:07
RST38hit is the same damn android, just with some big screen enablements19:07
derfI think you're confusing patents with innovation.19:08
GAN900It's actually significantly improved Ui-wise from 2.x19:08
derfThey are in fact almost direct opposites.19:08
Venemo_N900so. android's openness means that they give out the code sometimes... but as I understand, they don't follow an open development model19:09
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RST38hderf:Still, what patents make Honeycomb different from Gingerbread?19:11
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cityLightsMohammadAG: o ok, why are you so keen on QT then?19:11
RST38hVenemo: They have got very low quality, messed up base OS layer19:11
cityLightsI hope its not rude to ask19:11
RST38hVenemo: Cannot say much about the other stuff19:11
MohammadAGIt's easy to work with19:11
derfRST38h: I don't know. I can't see the source.19:11
derfI can tell you what does make a difference: a bunch of recent lawsuits.19:12
RST38hderf: True.19:13
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GAN900"Delivered before 10:30 Monday" has to mean they'll show up 5 minutes after I've left for work.19:21
pupnikjoin up game right now for some nice freebees19:24
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RoazielHi. I have a quick question. Is there any way to set the Maemo default browser to go to the mobile versions of site instead of the full verion?19:28
psycho_oreos<MohammadAG> I think there's an open bootloader <--- thanks :)19:29
keriochange the user-agent to match some mobile browser19:29
Roazielhow do i do that?19:30
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pupnikyes, how?19:32
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Venemo_N900there's an app for that in the repo19:35
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pupnikwhat's the good gcc to use for fremantle?  i have gcc 4.2.1 here and i thought there was way better stuff now19:52
jacekowskiworking one is good one19:52
Venemo_N900pupnik: scratchbox's gcc?19:52
pupnikgcc -v19:53
Venemo_N900apt-cache on my n900 says 4.219:55
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pupnikhmm i see a 4.4.1 avail19:57
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Venemo_N900try it19:57
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MohammadAGint profile_get_value_as_bool20:07
MohammadAGwow Nokia20:07
MohammadAGgetting a value as bool returns an integer20:07
Venemo_N900because there is no bool in c?20:07
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Venemo_N900boolean in c is int...20:08
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jacekowskihave anybody tried kubuntu mobile?20:08
MohammadAGwell, the status menu's segfaulting on it20:09
MohammadAGint is_general_vibration_active = profile_get_value_as_bool ("general", "vibrating.alert.enabled"); <-- causes a segfault20:13
Venemo_N900MohammadAG, ping me about that when I get home20:14
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MohammadAGwell, if anyone's interested
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pupnikyour new work MohammadAG ?20:27
MohammadAGpupnik, just a quick rewrite20:30
MohammadAGit's missing stuff obviously20:30
pupnikpeople who don't understand colors shouldn't make graphics20:34
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GAN900Purple doesn't go with orange and black?20:37
pupnik:) in halloween candy maybe20:37
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Venemo~seen thp20:47
infobotthp is currently on #meego. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1d 1h 43m 21s, last said: 'alterego: any screenshots of the new qml dialer ui?'.20:47
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SpeedEvil~seen SpeedEvil20:50
infobotspeedevil is currently on #maemo (15h 35m 2s) #openmoko (15h 35m 2s) #edev (15h 35m 2s). Has said a total of 31 messages. Is idling for 2s, last said: '~seen SpeedEvil'.20:50
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pupnikyou guys know how to take SCREENSHOT?!20:51
pupniki press screenshot icon, and it says "you have 20 s to press camera capture key to take screenshot"20:51
pupnikthen i switch to my app and press camera capture key (fully or half way)20:51
pupnikand it SHOWS ME OPEN CAMERA COVER20:51
SpeedEvilI just left it alone20:52
SpeedEvilAnd it takes shot after 20s20:52
pupnikwhere does the shot get stored?20:53
pupniki cannot find it20:53
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arvuthi, how do I grep multiply outputs without retyping the command and grepping new outputs?21:11
arvutfor example, grep on both Cell and ESSID from the "iwlist scanning" command21:12
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RST38hgrep -e ?21:12
pupnikgrep -e foo -e bar21:12
pupnikgives lines containing either foo, bar, or both21:13
arvutah, that might be it :)21:13
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arvutI tried && and ; with a new grep. didnt even consider using flags :p21:14
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pupnikso here's my new 'readable' font...
RST38homg poor n900 kbd21:15
RST38htoo much playing21:15
arvutis there a maemo-chat channel btw? like #ubuntu-offtopic and #gentoo-chat21:15
pupnikthat was done between Oct 2009 and April 2010 RST38h21:15
GAN900arvut, this is it. ;)21:16
arvutGAN900: =)21:16
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arvutpupnik: wow, what have u done with that keyboard?! sandblasted it?21:17
pupniklots of irc21:18
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arvutpupnik: ouch.. I suddenly very concerned21:20
infobotarvut meant: pupnik: ouch.. I'm suddenly very concerned21:20
pupnik!lart arvut21:20
arvutinteresting.. a spellcorrection bot :)21:21
pupnikit's hard to decide UI stuff21:21
pupnikmaybe i need a shaded border around the top line of icons21:22
pupnikto seperate them visually from the game map21:22
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onen|openBmaphi everyone21:24
onen|openBmapjust got my n90021:24
onen|openBmapand just flashed it like new21:24
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onen|openBmapany recommendations about "must have" apps?21:25
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onen|openBmapwhat about community SSU?21:25
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cityLights~seen shapeshifter21:26
infobotshapeshifter is currently on #maemo (3d 5h 37m 58s). Has said a total of 17 messages. Is idling for 3d 3h 28m 3s, last said: 'cityLights: or you add specific names/ids to the events you create on the queue and then parse it but it seems bothersome'.21:26
arvutonen|openBmap: fennec 4 and cloud gps are pretty much must have apps21:28
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keks-nI've seen a bit of space between the kernel and the rootfs named "initfs"21:30
keks-nIt looks like that it was supposed to be used for initramfs, right?21:31
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arvutpupnik: what game was that btw? I've considered installing an rpg on my n900. only wish I could install nwn since it runs on linux.. can't recompile it for this cpu tho :(21:31
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pupnikarvut: that's a port/hackup of the daimonin linux client21:34
pupniki've added 1000 lines of comments so far :/21:35
onen|openBmaparvut: thanks, will have a look21:35
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pupnikarvut: if you're interested, it should be 'possible to play' sometime soon... lots of work yet21:43
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pupnikwb nox-21:47
nox-moin pupnik, #21:48
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arvutpupnik: cool, I gotta try nwn again on linux tho. built a new desktop monster a few months ago and win7 is getting on my nerves22:04
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arvutis this 'daiminon' an mmo or just a regular online rpg?22:18
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arvutpupnik: that question was meant 4 u22:19
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pupnikarvut: it's concieved as a mmorpg but right now it's more of an in-development thing22:21
pupnikif you have time to try it out, take notes about what it is you like, and what you find unintuitive about the interface, please22:22
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pupnikheh when i hook up the charger, current consumption increases22:23
arvutpupnik: ah.. cuz im not really an mmo person. ive been addicted to nwn which is as you might know, an dnd 3.0 based non-mmo rpg22:23
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pupniki respect bioware and i played nwn and nwn2 (for a bit)22:24
pupnikthe ambient sounds were top-notch22:24
arvutthe aurora toolset is paradise ^_^22:25
pupnikit is easy to design new adventures?22:26
pupniki'm not really an online rpg guy myself22:26
pupnikbut this is a pretty fun hack-n-slash imo22:26
pupnikat least in its bare form it does some things nicely22:26
pupnikor you could fix up the client with me22:27
arvutyeah, most "modules" as they are called are singleplayer adventures which everyone can download if the makers upload them22:28
pupniki bought one of gary gygax's first modules :)22:28
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arvutthey are then often rated and sometimes added to the hall of fame on the nwvault22:29
lolcatWhy won't the N900 boot with BL-4D?22:30
jacekowskibecause BME has no support for it22:30
jacekowskiand thinks that there is no battery22:31
jacekowskiand rapuyama will not start for same reason22:31
lolcatIt comes to the NOKIA screen, then dies22:31
jacekowskithat's NOLO22:31
infobotsomebody said bme was
jacekowskiBME is looking for specific batteries, anything different will result in shut down22:31
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arvutpupnik: wow, didnt even know he made mods for nwn22:32
lolcatWell, that sucks22:32
lolcatN97 mini can charge the BL-5J22:32
pupnikhe called the first commercial adventures 'modules' afair22:33
jacekowskiit can be hacked22:33
jacekowskito support other batteries22:33
pupnik'slave pits of the undercity' was the one i had22:33
jacekowskibut i'm not bored enough for that22:33
lolcatWell the BL-4D doesn'treally fit22:33
pupnikarvut: but this modules thing is very interesting to me22:33
lolcatBut it has 1200 mAh22:33
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jacekowskiwhat you can do is take it apart and change BSI resistor22:34
pupnikis there an open-source client for them?22:34
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pupnikand is the community large?  is there good content for them?  good stories/quests etc?22:34
pupnikjacekowski: i just managed to get it charging again :)22:34
pupniksometimes it takes ages to find the right angle/pressure22:35
jacekowskitry using normal usb cable22:35
jacekowskinot charger22:35
jacekowskiit tends to make better contact in my experience22:35
jacekowskiplug used in nokia charger is inferior compared to one used in cable22:36
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arvutlolcat: what's this BL-4D then?22:38
lolcatarvut: THe battery for Nokia N97 mini22:38
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lolcatIt is about 0,5cm to big22:39
lolcatBut my charger port is b0rked22:42
lolcatSo I need to use the N97 mini to charge it22:42
arvutlolcat: heard of the mügen power batteries?22:42
lolcatSo I wanted to have the battery in so I could recive calls.22:42
lolcatarvut: I am more in need of an external charger than that...22:42
arvutouch.. how did u manage to break that? I can imagine the horror of losing usb..22:43
lolcatI dropped both phones to the ground while drinking22:43
lolcatThe N97 mini was ontop22:43
lolcatProbably didn't help22:43
lolcatBut I had it repaired about a month or two ago22:44
lolcatFor a loose chargerport, so I guess I will tell them they did a poor job22:45
arvutI'm not into alcohol that much but I've dropped my phones (or dragged em down actually) into the floor with cables connected to them tho22:45
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mc_teohas anyone tried this yet:
arvutlolcat: I somehow doubt that'll work as they might remember what they did if it was that recently. could be worth a try tho22:47
lolcatarvut: The receipt says: "Main mechanical error fixed"22:48
mc_teoyeah, something in my n900 broke a two months agi22:49
mc_teoago*, so i sent it in to get repaired22:49
mc_teothey sent back the damage was due to a fall, so it voided my warrenty22:49
mc_teon900 works for everything, except anything that require SIM card22:50
mc_teoso basically, just no sms, or phone calls22:50
lolcatOr actually it said: "Main fault serviced: MEchanical failure"22:50
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lolcatThis will be its 3rd repair, so I am entitled to a refund22:51
arvutmc_teo: so it's basicly a tablet like the n800 and n810 now then?22:51
mc_teololcat: did they include a photo?22:51
lolcatmc_teo: A photo of what?22:51
mc_teothey did for me, with a circle around whole photo22:51
mc_teoentitled, problem area outlined below22:52
arvutmc_teo: what's that pocket_sphinx btw?22:52
mc_teo~tell arvut about pocketsphinx22:52
mc_teo~tell arvut about sphinx22:52
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mc_teoso basically, speech recognition engine22:53
lolcatWhat is pocket_sphinx?22:53
arvutcool, for voicecontrol and such?22:53
lolcatI have gotten two simcards now, so I can use the N900 for fun, and the N97 mini for calling/sms22:53
arvutthe n900 works with dual sim tho doesnt it?22:54
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lolcatarvut: My issue is the N900 battery time, I have the same number on both phones.22:55
mc_teoarvut: yes for voice control22:55
mc_teoi included a simple media player controller22:55
arvutmc_teo: nice! =)22:55
mc_teothat has play/pause/resume/stop/next/previous commads22:56
arvutlolcat: cloned sim O.022:56
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lolcatarvut: Yep, it is awesome! I just have to charge the N900 first :P22:56
mc_teoi find the n900 has fairly poor battery life22:57
arvutso dual sim eats a lot more power then?22:58
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mc_teoi dont use even single sim, due my error22:58
arvutmc_teo: yeah, got a lot better with that flash in october last year tho22:58
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mc_teoPR1.3? or 1.2?23:01
mc_teoi think for 1.2 it got worse23:01
mc_teobut i seemed to be the only one that had this23:01
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arvutmeh.. accidently closed irssi :|23:08
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arvutanyway, I've considered ordering this:
arvutwow, thats some link :/ sorry23:09
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shanttuHi. Where can I find the MicroB (desktop shortcut) icon and what is the name of it? usr/share/applications/hildon/?23:13
ruskiebrowser.desktop possibly?23:14
ruskiebut that's not for the icon but for the shortcut23:15
ruskieyou can get the filename from there23:15
lolcatWhat is the best way to backup contacts?23:15
ruskiebackup app? syncml?23:15
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lolcatI had one problem with them23:16
lolcatthe contacts, they dont work on my N97 mini, the symbian computer23:16
Venemololcat, try to backup with "ovi suite", which can then put the backup onto the n9723:16
lolcatVenemo: Some of the problem was that the N900 only stored nickname, and not a real name23:18
ShadowJKI've used bluetooth for transfering contacts to and from my nokia e7523:18
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shantturuskie: Thanks.23:19
mc_teojust dump the file, and use python to parse it to fit new format23:19
mc_teoexport a contact fron N95 mini with full information to see what format they like23:19
mc_teothen you can change the export from n900 to match23:20
lolcatIf I knew python that would be awesome23:20
mc_teoperl then?23:20
mc_teoeven php could do it23:20
mc_teoheck, even bash or javascript23:20
mc_teobatch might be stretching it23:21
DocScrutinizermeh, vcard is the magic word23:24
cityLightsdoes anyone use the kde pim ?23:24
lolcatDocScrutinizer: When the contacts got to the N97min they where nameless23:24
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: i never knew you were joerg_rw on the forums23:25
Venemoconclusion: N97 is crap23:25
DocScrutinizermc_teo: too bad23:25
ruskieVenemo, then why mention it?23:25
Venemomc_teo, all you would have needed to know is a /whois command23:25
DocScrutinizermc_teo: hope you're not too scared now23:25
mc_teonope, should i be?23:26
lolcatVenemo: It has a longer batterylife23:26
DocScrutinizer/whois DocScrutinizer23:26
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Venemololcat, and a crappy screen, and a crappy CPU, and a crappy keyboard.23:26
DocScrutinizer~ DocScrutinizer23:26
infoboti heard docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko23:26
lolcatVenemo: I am planning on using both23:27
Venemoit's your loss23:27
cityLightsDocScrutinizer: I am waiting here for shapeshifter to return23:28
cityLightsare there any other python developers here , that you think may help me with dbus?23:28
VenemocityLights, are you using PyQt?23:29
cityLightsnot yet23:29
VenemoQtDBus is quite simple23:29
cityLightsI need to add gui, may use that23:29
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cityLightsok, let me google an example\23:29
VenemocityLights, I could help you more if you worked with C++23:30
cityLightsI am starting to think most ppl here use qt23:30
cityLightswhen I finish the proto I will translate to c++23:30
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keks-nHave anyone tried to compile MeeGo kernel?23:31
Venemokeks-n, ask in #meego23:31
keks-nI'm trying to make another bootmenu, lol23:32
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cityLightsmin, SO is asking me for cake23:32
cityLightsand off I go23:32
ruskiekeks-n, drop bootmenu23:32
ruskiejust use uboot23:32
keks-nIt flashes IN the kernel, right?23:32
keks-nI want to use 2 mb of mtd4 as initrd23:32
keks-nAnd that kexec in anything23:33
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keks-nFlashing something in the kernel seems dangerous and unstable23:34
lolcatVenemo: How is it a loss to have a backup phone when the battery runs out?23:34
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Venemololcat, it is a loss to have two phones. that's it.23:35
ruskieI have a lot more than 2 phones23:36
ruskieI do only use one though23:36
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ruskiebut then I don't have battery issues with the N90023:36
ruskie4 days on a single charge works fine for my use case/needs23:36
mc_teowithout a single open application running23:37
mc_teoi get 36 hours, max23:37
mc_teofrom a full charge23:37
mc_teothats with nothing open23:37
ruskiequite a few widgets23:37
mc_teoi presume my two email accounts check frequently23:38
ruskieI have auto disconnect on all connections23:38
mc_teono widget that update live23:38
lolcatruskie: I had auto disconnect, but it bugged me23:38
mc_teolike no rss widget, or facebook or anything23:38
ruskieand I don't really need to have constant mail checks23:38
ruskieI can just ssh to my server and look at the emails23:38
* lolcat wish he had ssh email23:39
lolcatI should use ruskies remove scrip23:39
lolcator the list23:39
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lolcatBut without a charger it is still pretty useless23:39
DocScrutinizerkeks-n: nonsense, there's nothing wrong with uBoot. Nolo has a fixed addr where it fetches the ram img to start, usually there's linux kernel at that location. UBoot guy has placed uBoot there and shifted kernel some kb offset backwards, but the kernel itself stays untouched23:40
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: shut down your GPRS account23:41
DocScrutinizerthen check again23:41
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: i have no sim card23:41
mc_teohence no gprs account23:41
DocScrutinizerthen you definitely got some issue23:41
mc_teoi think so too23:41
DocScrutinizeryou should have a 48h standby easily23:42
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DocScrutinizerunless you messed up WLAN settings23:42
keks-n>>UBoot guy has placed uBoot there and shifted kernel some kb offset backwards, but the kernel itself stays untouched23:42
keks-nLooks like a dirty hack23:42
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lolcatBwah, I can't call myself even while having a twin sim.23:42
DocScrutinizernot as dirty as e.g. multiboot23:42
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: i didnt edit anything in advanced23:42
mc_teoeven have power saving on full23:43
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: strange23:43
ruskieare you using the power kernel?23:43
mc_teoleft a post on forums about it ages ago23:43
lolcatruskie: But 4 days of battery sounds insane23:43
mc_teoleft a copy of my ps list23:43
ruskielolcat, how so?23:44
lolcatI couldn't do that unless I didn't want to call anyone23:44
ruskiewell I generally don't call people23:44
ruskienor do people really call me that much23:44
ruskienot a lot as well23:44
lolcatI have gotten 106 texts the last 2/3 days.23:45
ruskieemail, jabber, irc are my primary comms channels23:45
lolcatN900 doesn't last 4 days on irc23:45
ruskieand none of those apps actually runs on my n900... I just ssh into my server and reattach to the tmux sessions...23:45
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lolcatI use screen23:46
ruskiemodest is useless for email23:46
mc_teo^ +123:46
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lolcatBut still, if I use IRC for 8 houres, the N900 is dead.23:46
ruskieas said... ssh thourgh...23:46
ruskieand I don't need it 8h/day23:46
lolcatNo, but even 4 a day will kill it in two23:46
ruskieif I do need access it's usually in the 1-2h window23:46
lolcatruskie: I use irc through ssh + screen23:47
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lolcatStill it uses a lot of battery23:47
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ruskiewell I also don't use this every day23:48
lolcatAnd me using two phones, and having the N97 mini as more of a phone, and the N900 more like a internet device.23:48
ruskieit's rare that I'm anywhere without a computer and keyboard access23:48
DocScrutinizermc_teo: use top/htop to see if there are processes runaway23:48
DocScrutinizeruse powertop to see general system activity23:49
lolcatruskie: I tend to leave my home once a day to do stuff23:49
ruskieusually when going shopping or something along those lines that I have some spare time23:49
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: modest, and browser atm23:49
ruskieI go to work... but I have a computer there and ssh to the server23:49
lolcatI use it less when I drive, I can't drive while using it as intensivly as when I take the sub23:50
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ruskieyou shouldn't really be using it while driving23:51
lolcatruskie: it has a keyboard23:52
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ruskieit has a miniature keyboard23:52
ruskiethat tends to be annoying to use without looking at it23:52
lolcatA full size keyboard would be impractical23:53
lolcatruskie: really? I use it without looking at it23:53
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lolcatruskie: Once I a while I look at it, normaly with special characters and such23:54
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