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| RST38h | Well. Moo. | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
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| RST38h | "Qt 4.7 will not be supported on S60 3rd Edition. For these devices your applications can use Qt 4.6.3 and Qt Mobility 1.1.2. | 00:05 |
| RST38h | Ah, it says S60e3 specifically, so S60e5 will support it... | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | at least they supported that platform more than M5 :P | 00:06 |
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| RST38h | Hell, supporting it less than M5 would actually be HARD to do! | 00:07 |
| * SpeedEvil loves M5. | 00:07 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's my favourite thread. | 00:08 |
| pupnik | what's M5 | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | Maemo 5 :P | 00:08 |
| E0x | heh | 00:08 |
| pupnik | works pretty well for me | 00:09 |
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| pupnik | and i love the kernel parameters for faster large file writes | 00:09 |
| pupnik | totally solved my problem copying large files | 00:09 |
| kerio | what parameters? | 00:10 |
| pupnik | from that tmo thread about it | 00:10 |
| kerio | the bug where the n900 kinda deadlocks when doing any kind of I/O? | 00:11 |
| wmarone_ | I'm still baffled at people having that issue after PR1.3 | 00:13 |
| kerio | that bug sucks | 00:13 |
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| RST38h | what issue? | 00:14 |
| wmarone_ | the one where IO kills the device | 00:14 |
| RST38h | Well, it is not "IO" but swapping and there is nowhere for it to go | 00:14 |
| MohammadAG | I'd be more interested in a fix for the incoming call choking effect | 00:17 |
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| pupnik | kerio: fixed by some proc settings | 00:18 |
| pupnik | no lockups anymore | 00:18 |
| kerio | yay | 00:18 |
| pupnik | i don't realy use phones so .. | 00:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you're choking when incoming call happens? | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: what's the settings you used? | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no, my N900 is | 00:46 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders about rationale to make things like swappolube available to "standard" user "user" via sudoers, rather than via a proper authentication by some thing like kdesu. I mean what's the use I fixed that idiotic NOPASSWD for sudoers gainroot (aka rootsh) when this only works for shells but not for crazy system stuff like swappolube or cpufreq-gui | 00:50 | |
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| nox- | heh i dont even know the default passwords... | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there are none, that's why :-P | 00:53 |
| nox- | so removing NOPASSWD has no direct effect then? | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you for sure *should* know your root pw if you installed sshd | 00:54 |
| nox- | right which i didnt (only the client) | 00:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | removing NOPASSWD has a pretty nice effect of locking you out from your own root account then. But no worries, I think you can install sshd any time and you get to set a valid working pwd during the process | 00:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also reinstalling rootsh *should* fix it | 00:56 |
| nox- | hah ok | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH, I missed that | 00:56 |
| nox- | :) | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | DAMNDAMNDAMN | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-worker needs a wrapper? | 00:57 |
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| MohammadAG | if you have the CSSU installed, yes | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | or could I somehow nail it in any apt config? | 00:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, simple. HAM also needs "kdesu". See what I came from? | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/what/where/ | 00:59 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: meh, simple. HAM also needs "kdesu". See where I came from? | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, how would I marry sudo with a simple requester to enter a password and click OK? I don't like to keep a xterm window open in background all the time for each app started via this kdesu-lookalike | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sudo <$(zenity --entry --text="starting HAM, enter root pw please") HAM ? | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, fail | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't work, even if correct syntax used | 01:14 |
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| nox- | yeah passwords are usually read from /dev/tty... | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought as much :-/ | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess unlike old dos there's no way to push some fake input onto the stdin fifo for a later invoked program to read it? | 01:16 |
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| nox- | ah there is sudo -A | 01:17 |
| nox- | If the -A (askpass) option is specified, a (possibly graphical) helper program is executed to read the user's password and output the password to the standard output. | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | or do sth like "echo dumdidaah >/proc/`pidof sudo`/fd/3" ? | 01:18 |
| nox- | (assuming the sudo on the phone has that too...) | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | port gksudo already | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow for -A | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course that'S not available on N900 sudo | 01:20 |
| nox- | :( | 01:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and, strange enough, that's not a link to messybox I find under `which sudo` | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what's gksudo? | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | A GUI that asks for a password | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | it's used on Gnome based desktops, so should work fine with hildon | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | KDE probably has some equivalent | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's kdesu :-) | 01:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so you ported that already, you said? :-D | 01:26 |
| MohammadAG | no, not yet :P | 01:27 |
| RST38h | has anything to do with desu desu desu? | 01:29 |
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| MohammadAG | gnome 3 is cool | 01:32 |
| MohammadAG | besides the fact that it doesn't update the screen/window you're using un til you interract with it | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | hence the typos above ^ | 01:33 |
| RST38h | A minor bug indeed =) | 01:34 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: huh? | 01:47 |
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| alterego | Having multiple N900s is pretty epic. | 02:02 |
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| kahless | alterego: ^^ yeah! | 03:56 |
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| MohammadAG | that took less time than planned :D | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG | playlists implemented | 04:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Woo! | 04:08 |
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| MohammadAG | http://i53.tinypic.com/v42y3l.jpg | 04:12 |
| MohammadAG | had to pull some playlists off a friend's iPod :p | 04:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | MohammadAG: when is somebody going to give you a job? | 04:16 |
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| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, when I get a degree I guess :P | 04:19 |
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| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:~# du -h mediaplayer.bc5c5b5a10377a360354ff2ab641c1dc | 04:41 |
| MohammadAG | 600.0kmediaplayer.bc5c5b5a10377a360354ff2ab641c1dc | 04:41 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:~# du -h /usr/bin/mediaplayer.launch | 04:41 |
| MohammadAG | not bad, considering how the FMTX dialog was rewritten | 04:41 |
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| drack | can you bluesnarf with n900? | 06:24 |
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| drack | hello? | 07:18 |
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| pupnik_ | hi drack i don't know | 07:46 |
| gn00b | just did a hard reset on my nokia n900. now i'm trying to install all my apps again and i got a msg saying 'not enough space in application install memory. uninstall some applications to free enough space for this installation.' i haven't installed anything yet. | 07:47 |
| pupnik_ | gn00b: open terminal, type df and then press enter | 07:48 |
| pupnik_ | you will see disk free statistics | 07:48 |
| pupnik_ | the first line after "Filesystem" should be 'rootfs' which shows available space | 07:48 |
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| gn00b | rootfs used 128104 available 100836 | 07:50 |
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| pupnik_ | that's pretty odd | 07:51 |
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| pupnik | restart device, maybe something just got munged | 07:52 |
| gn00b | just did | 07:52 |
| pupnik | same error? | 07:52 |
| gn00b | three times...same error | 07:52 |
| pupnik | hm | 07:53 |
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| pupnik | if you do a 'du' is /home/opt full? | 07:55 |
| pupnik | sorry | 07:55 |
| pupnik | "df" | 07:55 |
| gn00b | 95% | 07:55 |
| gn00b | home 95% and opt 95% | 07:56 |
| gn00b | no wait... | 07:56 |
| pupnik | it's the same partition | 07:56 |
| gn00b | ok...then it is 95% | 07:57 |
| pupnik | that should be about 100MB free, so it's not the problem | 07:57 |
| gn00b | shouldn't everything be free since i just did a hard reset? | 07:57 |
| pupnik | i'm not sure. i would try installing a package with apt-get install | 07:58 |
| pupnik | a small package | 07:58 |
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| gn00b | i can't 'sudo gainroot' because i don't have rootsh installed. i can't install rootsh because i can't 'sudo gainroot' ... wtf? | 08:06 |
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| pupnik | gn00b: sorry forgot about that | 08:24 |
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| pupnik | gn00b: maybe something went wrong during flashing | 08:25 |
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| irushad | when is the next update releasing ? | 08:28 |
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| pupnik | wonder if n900s will *ever* drop below 200 eu | 08:40 |
| ds3 | pupnik: it might in the US if the TMO/ATT merger goes through | 08:42 |
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| pupnik | :( | 08:47 |
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| pupnik | what phone lets you take RAW photos? | 08:50 |
| pupnik | n900 :D | 08:51 |
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| robbiethe1st | pupnik: Now, if only it could /read/ them. | 08:51 |
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| robbiethe1st | pupnik: I mean, F-cam's great and all, but not being able to look back at pictures you took, even roughly... sort of a pain. | 08:52 |
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| kerio | robbiethe1st: huh? | 08:53 |
| kerio | scroll down | 08:53 |
| kerio | or up | 08:53 |
| robbiethe1st | ? | 08:53 |
| kerio | oh, for raws | 08:53 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 08:53 |
| kerio | nvm then | 08:53 |
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| pupnik | robbiethe1st: what about 'bless' camera app? | 09:02 |
| robbiethe1st | No clue; never used it | 09:02 |
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| pupnik | annoying scratchbox shows $ at the end of every line | 10:09 |
| pupnik | in vi | 10:09 |
| pupnik | what's that marking called when it shows tabs, CRs etc | 10:09 |
| pupnik | makes cut and paste a problem | 10:09 |
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| Termana | good morning | 10:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | gn00b: you should reflash COMBINED and make shure you don't abort first boot which will, during auto-optification, clean the /opt partition | 10:38 |
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| N9HUNDRED1983 | wat is up | 10:52 |
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| N9HUNDRED1983 | just installed cut | 10:56 |
| N9HUNDRED1983 | cutetube-QML | 10:57 |
| N9HUNDRED1983 | and its awesome | 10:57 |
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| MohammadAG | QML is awesome | 10:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm pondering to add Q* to my blacklist that has g* for now ;-D | 11:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: why is that? | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then I'm in trouble which toolkit to use for gfx | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: because of QtMob fubar | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I mean FUBAR | 11:21 |
| Venemo_N900 | what's wrong with QtMob? | 11:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mompls I got a link for you | 11:22 |
| Venemo_N900 | ok, gimme the link. | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | source_devel/bugs menu in my bookmarks has this: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54 | 11:23 |
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| Venemo_N900 | what da fu ck is this?????? :O | 11:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | to fix you not only need to rewrite from scratch the n900proximitysensor, but you need to weed out that friggin filesensor object and everything else basing on same poor understanding of how to access sysfs and avoid recurrent timer actions | 11:25 |
| Venemo_N900 | loool | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | werner almesberger meant "yeah, decent oversampling avoids aliasing" ;-P | 11:26 |
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| Venemo_N900 | so it polls the sensor 100 times a second... bleh. | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-(( | 11:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | :( | 11:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | filesensor is an object fundamentally incompatible with the intended usecase of QtMob | 11:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | mhm | 11:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | sure, but why don't they just use the native Maemo api? | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | nfc | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | also why don't they use kevents with their nice signal/slot concept? | 11:29 |
| Venemo_N900 | probably because they don't know anything about kernel events...? | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably | 11:30 |
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| Venemo_N900 | looking at the code, it seems that some average, underpaid guy wrote it hastily. | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 11:30 |
| Venemo_N900 | but it does explain why Mobility sucks the hell out of the cpu. | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, QtMob, QA NOT passed, back to devel please! | 11:31 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer ++ | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry all you app devels who used QtMob | 11:32 |
| Venemo_N900 | yay | 11:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same applies to you, back to maemo-devel until either you kicked QtMob or QtMob got their shit sorted | 11:33 |
| Venemo_N900 | although the problem seems to be trivially fixable by reimplementing that class. | 11:33 |
| pupnik | workworkwork | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, IF that's the only stinking pile of SH** in that lib. I doubt they got only one | 11:34 |
| Venemo_N900 | hell yeah | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a clear indication of devels without a friggin clue, so I expect the whole lib being of same inferior quality | 11:35 |
| timeless_w7ip | docscrutinizer: on the subject of Qt-Mob ... consider this sample code: https://bugs.meego.com/attachment.cgi?id=5243 | 11:35 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh, for people unfamliar w/ bugzilla... | 11:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | to go from an attachment to a bug, add &action=edit | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | gasp *COUGH* | 11:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | you mean *choke*, i think | 11:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyway, please don't comment on the bgu | 11:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | the bug is an exercise in bugzilla ping pong | 11:37 |
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| Venemo_N900 | how so? | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 11:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | the goal being to get people to figure out how to find people w/o needing twenty or more volleys | 11:37 |
| Venemo_N900 | lool | 11:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you're looking at the bug (or any bug), click the "History" link under the reporter at the top of the bug | 11:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | the ping pong here is the 'Assignee' field (search for it in that page) | 11:39 |
| ruskie | hehe... | 11:39 |
| ruskie | they seriously have no clue who should actually handle it... | 11:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh, give them time! | 11:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | this is only 5 volleys :) | 11:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | i give them another 5-10 :) | 11:39 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: but, as i said earlier, it's a learning experience | 11:39 |
| ruskie | I mean... why can't the first person to stumble upon it and actually care enough to commit it do it... | 11:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | they need to *learn* how to handle bugs | 11:39 |
| Venemo_N900 | :D | 11:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: are you familiar w/ NMU? | 11:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | it's generally considered rude | 11:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | it exists in some domains, but it's considered rude | 11:40 |
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| ruskie | NMU? | 11:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | the other thing is that if you fix someone else's code, how will they learn? | 11:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | ~nmu | 11:40 |
| infobot | from memory, nmu is Non Maintainer Upload, it's when a debian developer which is not the maintainer of a package uploads an update of said package | 11:40 |
| ruskie | if you don't actually maintain anything in 2 months after change happens I don't consider you a maintainer | 11:41 |
| * timeless_w7ip shrugs | 11:41 | |
| ruskie | that's my down to earth actually get stuff out the door approach | 11:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | i haven't found maintainers to be particularly great in general | 11:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | so you won't find me arguing with you | 11:42 |
| ruskie | and I'm talking this as a distro dev(source mage) | 11:42 |
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| ruskie | so I'm familiar with I'll maintain this... then nothing happens | 11:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | :) | 11:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyway, what you see here is a different thing | 11:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | it's a flavor of "bug hot potato" | 11:42 |
| ruskie | so we simply have ping - do you care about this - no repsones in 14 days - ok I'll play with it | 11:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | (or Bug Potato for short) | 11:43 |
| ruskie | hehe | 11:43 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders if people here are familiar w/ Hot Potato | 11:43 | |
| timeless_w7ip | anyway, your average engineer has 2-3x more things to do in a given day than he can possibly do | 11:43 |
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| timeless_w7ip | and he's supposed to work on *his* area | 11:44 |
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| timeless_w7ip | so his goal should be to find someone who is more closely related to the problem than he and pass it along | 11:44 |
| ruskie | I consider myself lucky that I tend to not have 2-3x more things to do | 11:44 |
| ruskie | as a sysadmin | 11:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | the problem here is that as you've noted, they really have no clue which direction to send it | 11:44 |
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| timeless_w7ip | someone wrote a nokia email address in the early bits of the bug | 11:45 |
| ruskie | I've read it yeah ;) | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | that person should have said "I'll send an email to <...> asking him to find an owner" | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | and he should have left assigned to himself until the emailee replied | 11:45 |
| ruskie | if it were the one making the call the last commiter(or the most common commiter) would be my first choices... | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you look at the bug's initial bits, there's a url | 11:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | at the bottom of the page is the list of comitters to the file | 11:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | and you can see that the file was buggy from its initial commit | 11:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | (iirc) | 11:46 |
| * timeless_w7ip waits for ruskie to confirm | 11:46 | |
| ruskie | hehe | 11:47 |
| ruskie | not gonna happen | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | why? | 11:47 |
| ruskie | to tired to read through commits and code etc... | 11:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but how will we stop QtMob from contaminating all maemo? | 11:47 |
| ruskie | and heading off to get some food | 11:47 |
| ruskie | lunch time | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh, enjoy lunch | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | you don't need to read through the commits | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | the web ui will show you the oldest version of the file | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | and you can quickly search for the code blob and confirm it's still present | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: the bug is there as a learning exercise for everyone | 11:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | heheh | 11:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | for people like you, i'm trying to show how MXR can help answer questions like this | 11:48 |
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| Venemo_N900 | mxr=? | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | meego xross reference | 11:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | venemo: well, step 1, did you get to the bug page from the attachment link? | 11:49 |
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| timeless_w7ip | (step 1 is a "advanced tricks of bugzilla" lesson) | 11:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, I already closed the ticket page | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 11:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, you can get back there :) ... history or repeat the steps | 11:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | i've reclosed the page 10-20 times in the last 10 mins :) | 11:50 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh, and i'm now looking at the wrong file.. | 11:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, this time adding &action=edit took me directly to the ticket instead of to a edit window with the patch text | 11:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | hrm, it isn't supposed to do that.. | 11:53 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: anyway, see if you can find the helpful source link | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | mxr.meego.org/... looks promising | 11:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | yeah, just be careful, you want the link for the buggy code, not the victim code :) | 11:54 |
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| voltagex | is there a way to currently get maemo-pan working on the N900? | 11:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | as a hint, the most important link should be in the clickable <url> field in the bug metadata section | 11:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | (typically at the top of bugs unless you've changed your bugzilla preferences) | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | history on mxr gives me OP A.Stanley-Jones Dec 16 2010 | 11:56 |
| timeless_w7ip | hrm | 11:57 |
| timeless_w7ip | not the 14th? | 11:57 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm using the drop down box at the bottom of the page | 11:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyway, as you can see, a small bug can be a very valuable learning experience for many people :) | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | for me it is for sure, just I'm not realy involved in fixing bugs ;-) | 12:01 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: btw, how do the kernel events that you talked about work? | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | why t f does "history" link upper right not show the dec 14. versions? | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | netlink socket | 12:02 |
| crashanddie_ | lol, GAN900, some idiot is trying to get you in trouble on TMO... | 12:03 |
| crashanddie_ | "I'm stunned that no-one brought up GeneralAntilles... after all, in the US, impersonating an officer of the military is a serious crime!" | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically you open a socket and wait for msgs from kernel. Kernel sends a msg for every event, with details, and you filter for the events you're interested in | 12:03 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 12:03 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: hrm | 12:03 |
| Venemo_N900 | thx DocScrutinizer | 12:04 |
| timeless_w7ip | grr, gitorious requires JS! | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: hrm? | 12:04 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_w7ip, no it doesn't. | 12:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | crashanddie_: disable JS and load: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/contacts/commit/470d4a57d58ef8f2b2b7a1817714da925fc02340 | 12:05 |
| crashanddie_ | well, older versions didn't, i browse it on my server with lynx and no JS | 12:05 |
| crashanddie_ | indeed | 12:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | that page is technically useful | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=libfsoframework/fsoframework/kobjectnotifier.vala;h=b4d6aca64d67e118a58fb11f72aa084b75f50fb5;hb=00c471c86667ad3d86610296a634496d746ec287#l61 | 12:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | but not practically useful because their design is stupid | 12:06 |
| crashanddie_ | though the qt.git and maemo.git (and any nokia.git) may be running versions of gitorious I'm not aware of | 12:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | there are two *important* links | 12:06 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_w7ip, most of gitorious was designed for design, not practicality | 12:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | but there's no indication that they're important | 12:06 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_w7ip, feel free to email support@gitorious.org or rant in #gitorious, they're actually really open to helpful comments | 12:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | crashanddie: atm i'm ranting about doc's date issue | 12:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | it sounds like my repo importer got the date wrong | 12:08 |
| crashanddie_ | k | 12:08 |
| voltagex | I really need Bluetooth PAN working. | 12:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | and i'm trying to understand how that could happen :( | 12:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: so... | 12:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | in theory w/ enough bad time zone conversions | 12:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | i suppose bad things could happen | 12:09 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: about the QtM bug, we should take it into someone like achipa's attention. | 12:09 |
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| MohammadAG | or see how proximityd does it and do that ourself | 12:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh strange | 12:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: i think i see the problem | 12:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: proximityd doesn't use the accelerometer, does it? | 12:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you look at the datestamp here: http://mxr.meego.com/hgweb.cgi/contacts/rev/f726ca721a91 | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly not | 12:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | it's +1000 | 12:11 |
| MohammadAG | no, but the same polling is done for the proximity sensor | 12:12 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders if that's Chineese Eastern Time or something | 12:12 | |
| MohammadAG | remember mediabar? | 12:12 |
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| Venemo_N900 | sure | 12:12 |
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| MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, I installed Gnome shell 3 btw, it doesn't update the window I'm using | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: but actually accelerometer is a good example. It probably has quite identical issues | 12:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: doesn't update what window? | 12:14 |
| MohammadAG | like, if I'm typing on IRC, I don't see anything new on the window | 12:14 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it does | 12:14 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you can assume the same for all sensors in Qt Mobility | 12:14 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, the window isn't repainted | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, what I suspected | 12:14 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: well it works for me. what distro is that? | 12:14 |
| MohammadAG | ubuntu | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | that made me utter "QtMob is *FUBAR*"" | 12:15 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: yeah, unfortunately :( | 12:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~fubar | 12:15 |
| infobot | fubar is F*cked Up Beyond Any Recognition, e.g. "This whole operation is fubar, soldier" (gay lisp included), or a bar addon like Titan Panel and Telo's InfoBar. and everything. | 12:15 |
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| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: it's ot here, let's talk about it in pm | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I meant Beyonf All Repair | 12:15 |
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| timeless_w7ip | doc: ok, grr | 12:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | i think gitorious is actually buggy here | 12:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you load http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/contacts/commit/470d4a57d58ef8f2b2b7a1817714da925fc02340?format=patch | 12:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 17:08:51 +1000 | 12:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | that sure doesn't look like the 16th to me | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: that's all hopelessly above my head, I'm stubling thru git and am happy to find some useful thing on accident. No clue to tell what's right or wrong with git(orious) | 12:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: sorry... mxr is innocent, gitorious is buggy | 12:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: yeah, don't worry about the gitorious | 12:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | i think you'll find that mxr is friendlier | 12:18 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i'm sorry that you ran into a date bug in gitorious, but it isn't my fault (and i'm very happy about that) | 12:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 12:19 |
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| timeless_w7ip | doc: in the long run, i'd imagine the gitorious people should thank you for helping them find and hopefully fix their date bug :) | 12:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | sp3000: food planning? | 12:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, without you checking it, I'd probably add it to my long list of "points I don't understand regarding git" and forgot about it | 12:20 |
| mece | is there a method for updating icon cache that actually does something? | 12:21 |
| mece | in maemo 5 | 12:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | mece: <rm $path_to_icon_cache> | 12:22 |
| mece | gtk-update-icon-cache works about as good as 'these goggles'(tm) | 12:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | <kill $pid_of_icon_cache_process> | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: prolly not, as I still frequently have that issue of icons of a fresh installed app being just a blue square, until next boot | 12:22 |
| mece | timeless_w7ip, serious? | 12:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | mece: basically if you kill enough files and processes | 12:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | it should "fix" the "problem" | 12:22 |
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| timeless_w7ip | but i don't know offhand which they are :) | 12:22 |
| mece | timeless_w7ip, well it's a problem, not a "problem" | 12:22 |
| achipa | Venemo: which bug ? | 12:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | whichever :) | 12:23 |
| voltagex | bluetooth PAN server anyone? | 12:23 |
| achipa | or rather Venemo_N900 ^^ | 12:23 |
| Venemo_N900 | achipa: DocScrutinizer noticed that the way QtM polls the sensors is totally wrong. | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54 | 12:24 |
| achipa | Venemo_N900: is there something already filed on the issue ? | 12:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | achipa: just look at the link | 12:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | achipa: I'm not sure | 12:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: for a context: you MUST NOT poll on /sys for detecting events on sensors. This rapes your idle state of CPU and thus your battery | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~2119 | 12:26 |
| infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. | 12:26 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: hey, you should switch to using mxr for such urls :) | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: I'd probably not even find my way to same location on mxr | 12:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/source/qt-mobility/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#54 | 12:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: could you do me a favor and try? | 12:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | i think you'll find that mxr is at least as easy to use if not considerably easier | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok. but first... | 12:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | but if it isn't, i need to know what's going wrong so i can improve it | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | so bear with me, I need some minutes... | 12:28 |
| chem|st | morning | 12:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: sure, i have flights to book :) | 12:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | wow | 12:30 |
| * timeless_w7ip has dozens of flights that will cost the same amount | 12:30 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | moi n chem|st | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/kevent | 12:36 |
| Venemo_N900 | thx DocScrutinizer | 12:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | doc: coffee done? | 12:37 |
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| timeless_w7ip | hrm... | 12:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | is O'Hare oh no! a key point? | 12:39 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders if it's worth an extra couple of hundreds of dollars to avoid it | 12:39 | |
| timeless_w7ip | i can fly HEL=>LHR=>ORD=>BWI | 12:39 |
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| * timeless_w7ip asks kayak to avoid ORD | 12:41 | |
| timeless_w7ip | cool | 12:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh | 12:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | when's hurricane season? :) | 12:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | ah, right, june 1st :) | 12:42 |
| drack | does anyone know if the super bluetooth hack works on n900? | 12:44 |
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| MohammadAG | no, it doesn't | 12:46 |
| achipa | metspace interruption... anyway | 12:47 |
| drack | i read that it only requires java to run superbluetooth hack | 12:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: acomplished I'd say: http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/search?find=/&string=addDataRate | 12:48 |
| chem|st | drack: _only_ | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | even more, it's harrowing | 12:49 |
| drack | what? you need more than just java? | 12:52 |
| chem|st | drack: what is *superBT* anyway | 12:54 |
| chem|st | drack: java is a bi7ch | 12:54 |
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| drack | it is used to hack blutooth onsony ericsission | 12:55 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: so the bug is... ? I mean, the real question is do you have event driven notifications from the kernel level - if that's a no, you poll, and if your app said it wants to poll... well, it polls... | 12:57 |
| achipa | just to be clear on inefficient != bug... | 12:57 |
| alterego | Gawd, not this again | 12:59 |
| achipa | hey, I'm new on this one ;) | 12:59 |
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| achipa | but the thing is, unless there is way to read the sensor change through an event or callback, mobility does it the only way it can -> it's not a *mobility* bug. Whether the kernel driver should provide a more sane interface in addition to just /sys is a different story | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: the hw supports IRQ, the kernel SHALL support IRQ, so polling SHOULD not get used. If anything (kernel sysfs implementation, driver implementation) has a roadblock that defeats use of an event driven architecture, then ther bug is there. If QtMob is using polling despite kevents (or any other means to deal with interrupts) is supported all the way down to API, then the bug clearly is in QtMob | 13:01 |
| achipa | well, I'm pretty sure there will be no kernel update for Maemo5, so that part is the way it is - except if somebody cares enough to make a patch for the power kernel or sorts | 13:03 |
| achipa | if that happens, I'm more than happy to fix mobility to check and use a non-polling interface | 13:03 |
| alterego | cssu | 13:03 |
| ArkanoiD- | who needs stock kernel anymore? | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: so you suppose the kernel in fact does NOT support kevents?? | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: citation needed | 13:04 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: It's about the proximity device drivers - I have no idea what/how they work on the inside | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: it's not | 13:04 |
| achipa | so you're saying the required kernel level stuff IS there and IS working, it's just mobility not using it ? | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's about the inplementation of filesensor being incompatible with the purpose of QtMOBILITY | 13:05 |
| alterego | O_o | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: unless somebody proves me wrong on that, I'm temped to assume the kernel supports kevents (or another method to get callback invoked on change of a sensor sysnode) | 13:06 |
| alterego | Does the kernel support the an irq event driven interface DocScrutinizer? | 13:06 |
| alterego | Sys and inotify don't work very well tbh .. | 13:07 |
| alterego | sysfs .. | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | inotify is BS, afaik. It's not even meant to get used on sysfs | 13:07 |
| alterego | Kif that is what you mean by 'filesensor' .. | 13:07 |
| alterego | Anyway, proximity under meego is actually handled by an input driver. | 13:08 |
| achipa | alterego: filesensor is a rather dumb polling "are we there yet" thingy | 13:08 |
| alterego | That driver is obviously even driven and probably requires a different QtMobility backend. | 13:08 |
| alterego | Oh, right. | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=libfsoframework/fsoframework/kobjectnotifier.vala;h=b4d6aca64d67e118a58fb11f72aa084b75f50fb5;hb=00c471c86667ad3d86610296a634496d746ec287#l61 | 13:08 |
| MohammadAG | the fact that proximityd and mce work without raping the CPU proves that some kind of events are working | 13:09 |
| qp | /nick cmantito | 13:09 |
| alterego | Not really, polling not hard :P | 13:09 |
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| cmantito | oops ;p | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | polling is a NOGO | 13:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's not only the action to poll sth, it's also the overhead to transition from C5->C0 and back | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | you definitely don't want to do this on *several* sensors ONE HUNDRED times per second | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't want to poll at all | 13:12 |
| achipa | hey, you're preaching to the choir... but the N900 sensors are the way they are - we can get patches in but don't expect Nokia to optimize the hell out of them | 13:12 |
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| achipa | (though there might be something in Harmattan that could be useful in that regard) | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: that's aplologetic. There ARE better ways | 13:13 |
| achipa | with the eternal words of Linus - talk is cheap, show me the code | 13:13 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, there's nothing wrong with the hardware | 13:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and unless someone PROVES there's a roadblocker in kernel (which I strongly doubt there is) I claim we CAN USE better method | 13:14 |
| achipa | if I have a patch that replaces that sensor with a non-polling implementation, I'll get it in trunk | 13:14 |
| alterego | Like I said, the sensor under meego uses the input driver interface and is event driven. | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: (show code) seen my link above ^^^^ ??? | 13:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: I'm not going to replace filesensor in QtMob | 13:15 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: he means a fix, the amount of time you're spent preaching this "bug" and not fixing it is absurd :P | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's definitely not my job | 13:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - the prox sensor can't react at >3Hz - so polling at 100hz is a clear bug | 13:15 |
| alterego | "not my job" | 13:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Even if polling at 6Hz i also a bug. | 13:15 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: SHOULD work is a different category than DOES works, that's all I'm saying | 13:15 |
| achipa | s/works/work/ | 13:15 |
| infobot | achipa meant: DocScrutinizer: SHOULD work is a different category than DOES work, that's all I'm saying | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: that'S BS. QtMob is using filesensor at maybe 50 places. So you suggest I offer 50 patches (actually new implementations) to prove QtMob guys were too lazy to find a better way than filesensor?? | 13:16 |
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| achipa | SpeedEvil: now that's a different story - and one we can act on | 13:16 |
| alterego | Actually 6 is probably about right, without some kind of a has changed counter parameter. | 13:16 |
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| MohammadAG | 50 places? | 13:16 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: I'm saying bitching won't change code. Patches will. | 13:17 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: actually, just write a sample that shows there's a better way. | 13:17 |
| MohammadAG | isn't it just two classes that need patches? | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not going to change code, I'm trying to teach devels to produce better code | 13:17 |
| MohammadAG | (without breaking the current methods, so you don't have to rewrite lots of crap) | 13:17 |
| alterego | He could just drop something in that replaces file sensor, I guess. | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: won't fly | 13:17 |
| MohammadAG | how come? | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/search?find=/&string=addDataRate | 13:18 |
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| achipa | DocScrutinizer: sure, they will learn and do it right next time. Maybe. Still doesn't change the N900 implementation. | 13:18 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: >2.5Hz if you are talking about state change | 13:18 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: indeed - frequency of 2.5Hz - 5Hz state-changes | 13:19 |
| MohammadAG | I only see 3 files related to the N900 | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that's a bug not related to N900, it's a design level bug | 13:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't know if inotify is supported on the state. | 13:19 |
| chem|st | the sensors polling is 5Hz | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell the thing is called qtMOBILITY, so it better DOES NOT POLL | 13:20 |
| chem|st | so state changes may happen with 2.5Hz at max (if we are talking about oscillation | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | inotify afaik is for normal filesystems, triggers on change of inodes etc. AFAIK it can not work on sysfs | 13:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I might be wrong | 13:22 |
| MohammadAG | it doesn't work on sysfs | 13:22 |
| MohammadAG | not sure if it can/can't, but on the N900, it doesn't | 13:22 |
| chem|st | I mean closed state is 2.5Hz to be clear | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's largely irrelevant if this prox sensor has a f(0) of 1Hz or 5Hz | 13:23 |
| alterego | I think you'll find it might work on certain nodes and not on others. | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | please learn to use sysfs events | 13:24 |
| alterego | Have you even submitted a bug? | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't care if the method is called NETLINK socket and kevents, or inotify or whatever. But I'm definitely sure there are better methods than polling | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | evidently any bug ticket would get closed as wontfix, as even here in a lengthy dialog you're apologetic and think there's no better way and not even any bug | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus accepting this bug would mean large parts of QtMob need a rework | 13:27 |
| alterego | No one has said that, I'm just calling you lazy for not doiing _anything_ about it. | 13:27 |
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| alterego | Nothing but moan about it here that is. And who's attention do you think that is gonna get? | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously yours, Venemo's, RST38h's, achipa's, MohammadAG's... Plus I opened the topic on #meego several times, and nothing happened | 13:29 |
| alterego | That's because I don't think the problem exists on meego | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: I'm just doing what I can. I'm not going to submit patches | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 13:29 |
| alterego | A bug report is better than nothing .. | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | POLLING on meego is OK then? | 13:30 |
| alterego | What fucking polling? | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> evidently any bug ticket would get closed as wontfix, as even here in a lengthy dialog you're apologetic and think there's no better way and not even any bug | 13:30 |
| alterego | proximity sensor doesn't even work under meego in mobility | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | Qt bugtrakcer, not maemo's | 13:30 |
| alterego | For the exact reasons I gave. | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I'm definitely fed up with it and your bitching | 13:31 |
| alterego | Sensors in meego use a different interface. | 13:31 |
| alterego | So I'm not even sure mobilities "filepollng" method would work. | 13:31 |
| alterego | Now if you're to idle to submit a bloody bug ... You're damn right O'm "bitching" | 13:32 |
| alterego | (at you) | 13:32 |
| alterego | At least I'm not denying there's an issue here. | 13:32 |
| alterego | And all the energy that is wasted on your rants about this could have gone in to a great bug report ... | 13:33 |
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| alterego | Even if it's something as simple as: "File polling in low power embedded systems, are you kidding?!?!?" | 13:34 |
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| xkr47 | oh man.. | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | go ahead. You for sure are more familiar with the correct tracker, correct subsystem, whatever. I don't care. I had a nice relaxed chat with Venemo here, and your perceived bitching of me has been proviked by you entirely | 13:37 |
| alterego | "I'm just doing what I can, I'm not going to sumbit patches" or make simple bug reports, or actually do anything? | 13:39 |
| alterego | Fine, but why continually bring up the fact you're not going to do any of these things? | 13:39 |
| alterego | Anyhow, bbl | 13:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because there are guys *interested* in learning about it, not interested in prodding me to participate in development on a level I feel not comfortable with | 13:41 |
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| alterego | You mean A socially responsible level? | 13:41 |
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| alterego | Oh there's a bug, it's a quite major bug, I know, I'll just tell a load of users about it and it'll never get resolved. | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: YOUR energy put into bitching at me supposedly not doing what YOU think is the right thing really better goes to filing a ticket :-P | 13:42 |
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| alterego | No, because it'd take me longer, I'd have to go through all the sources and validate. | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, I've shared all my knowledge and notions about this with you, and I'm not involved in development. So clearly now you're better qualified than me to act upon it | 13:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so go thru all the sources, lazy bugger! You at least know where they are, I don't. Then will you PRETTY PLEASE file a bug to whatever tracker is appropriate, and stop bitching at me | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I spotted the bug (after MohammadAG kindly pointed me at it), and I even digged out alternative methods that look promising. Now I happily hand it over to your responsibility to carry on with it | 13:50 |
| alterego | I'll keep it in mind, if it is still in place in meego I'll submit a bug | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | fair enough | 13:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_: sounds like sjgadsby. :P | 13:52 |
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| mece | hey I found what updates the icon cache (which is not called that anymore, since icon cache is not used) | 14:22 |
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| mece | touch /usr/share/icons | 14:23 |
| mece | :D | 14:23 |
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| mece | I shall install a random program and see if it works. | 14:23 |
| mece | (my test were somewhat unorthodox) | 14:23 |
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| mece | yep, it works. | 14:30 |
| mece | nice | 14:30 |
| mece | so a touch /usr/share/icons in the postinst would make icons appear as they should. Or adding the command to gtk-update-icon-cache script | 14:32 |
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| gn00b | DocScrutinizer: thanx. re-flashing it worked | 15:11 |
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| achipa | DocScrutinizer: alterego: proxymity stuff is kooky - apparently there are sensors that you have to massively supersample (10x) to be able to get reasonable accuracy, not sure if the N900 has such thing or not, though, but still, interesting | 15:17 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: ping | 15:25 |
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| homeasvs | anyone know how I should install mud in scratchbox ? doesn't look like it's packaged | 15:42 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I've just read the rest of the discussion - seems to have been heated up after I left :P | 16:30 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, honestly, I don't blame the Qt guys for this mess. The Maemo version of Qt Mobility is equally as hasted and messy as the other Qt for Maemo parts. | 16:33 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, for example, keyboard input is broken in Qt. I can't enter some capital letters :D | 16:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ω | 16:51 |
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| homeasvs | is there a place I can see what the builder is doing ? | 17:09 |
| homeasvs | possibly logs as they update live ? | 17:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: omega? | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GRRRRRRRRR | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Apr 7 17:22:48 IroN900 cellular: csd[795]: ISI_SMS .022491> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast | 18:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thank you VERY MUCH for that helpful log msg | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: tried to cmd-v a clear, ended up being option-z. | 18:24 |
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| RST38h | Good...whatever, ladies and gentlemen | 18:29 |
| pupnik | good mooning! | 18:30 |
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| pupnik | RST38h: i spent half the afternoon drawing a pitchfork :) http://www.daimonin.org/forums/daimonin-project/800x480-widget-client/msg94907/#msg94907 | 18:31 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Ah, just get yourself an open-sourced RPG icon set... | 18:34 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Or ask wazd if he would be interested in some applied megalomania =) | 18:35 |
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| pupnik | wazd may be helping out :D | 18:41 |
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| pupnik | but it's strictly "whatever is enjoyable" ... there are over 8800 tiles | 18:42 |
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| RST38h | pupnik:aaaaaargh | 18:47 |
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| homeasvs | is there any way to debug the upstart sequence during boot ? | 18:48 |
| homeasvs | I can't figure out why the service I'm adding doesn't start | 18:48 |
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| alterego | homeasvs: does it "start" when you try and start it manually after boot? | 18:49 |
| homeasvs | alterego, yep | 18:49 |
| alterego | homeasvs: can you pastebin your upstart file | 18:50 |
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| deno | hi there | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (upstart) depending on a signal that never comes? | 19:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer opens envelope from HK | 19:12 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | who's been ordering speakers at ownta? | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | They sent the ordered 4 correct ones (I pointed them to the fact they have a wrong picture, they answered "don't worry") plus one like the picture they have on their N900-speaker offer :-D | 19:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they still have the wrong picture on their webpage: http://www.ownta.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=65385 | 19:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | docscrutinizer: got time for another round of "adventures in [code]wonderland"? | 19:41 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/sofia-sip/libsofia-sip-ua/msg/msg.c?mark=239,245-246#235 | 19:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: slightly bored about it, nevertheless looking at it and can't find anything exciting. What you're asking me to do? | 19:44 |
| timeless_mbp | docscrutinizer: the question is what does the code ask memset to do | 19:44 |
| timeless_mbp | memset takes 3 arguments, and traditionally coders get at least one of them wrong :) | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF??? sizeof(&msg->m_addr) | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure but that looks fishy | 19:45 |
| * timeless_mbp gives docscrutinizer a cookie | 19:45 | |
| khorben_ | it does :) | 19:45 |
| toggles_ | lol | 19:46 |
| timeless_mbp | khorben: care to expand "it does"? :) | 19:46 |
| khorben_ | luckily the first might match, but I doubt the second will | 19:46 |
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| khorben_ | well the first argument needs a pointer to what will be zero'd | 19:46 |
| khorben_ | and the third wants its length | 19:46 |
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| khorben_ | so usually, it's like: int i; memset(&i, 0, sizeof(i)); | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | length of an addr? | 19:47 |
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| khorben_ | but here it says the equivalent of sizeof(&i) | 19:47 |
| khorben_ | which most probably doesn't match | 19:47 |
| RST38h | memset(ptr,value,size) | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 19:47 |
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| RST38h | so, why do people get it wrong again? | 19:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | C&P error | 19:48 |
| khorben_ | either ENOTENOUGHCOFFEE or 0xbadc0ffee or E2MUCHCOFFEE | 19:48 |
| timeless_mbp | rst: *shrug* | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 19:48 |
| timeless_mbp | people seem to be very good at getting this stuff wrong | 19:49 |
| timeless_mbp | ooh, i can read that coffee! | 19:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | is msg->m_addr malloc'd? | 19:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | docscrutinizer: thankfully you have a working cross reference at your fingers :) | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean, afaik malloc() nowadays makes sure you get zero'ed memory | 19:51 |
| timeless_mbp | no, it doesn't | 19:51 |
| timeless_mbp | calloc() does | 19:51 |
| RST38h | no,not according to the docs | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: I'm incredibly lazy | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 19:51 |
| timeless_mbp | malloc() will merilly return memory which was previously used and discarded in the process space | 19:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaah yes, in same process space, that might be correct actually | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the process got nuttin to hide from itself | 19:52 |
| khorben_ | some allocators even allow you to fill it with non-zero data | 19:53 |
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| khorben_ | to trigger bugs | 19:53 |
| timeless_mbp | note that a clibrary is free to start allocated memory with a value other than 0x0 | 19:53 |
| timeless_mbp | some tend to use 0xcccccccc | 19:53 |
| khorben_ | very platform-specific | 19:53 |
| RST38h | "some" aka MSVC | 19:53 |
| timeless_mbp | khorben: no, very libc specific | 19:53 |
| khorben_ | indeed | 19:53 |
| timeless_mbp | platforms can have dozens of libcs each with their own behaviors :) | 19:53 |
| RST38h | IBM xlc uses some 0xbadf00d or 0xdeadcafe, don't remember | 19:54 |
| khorben_ | or even, programs using their own allocators | 19:54 |
| khorben_ | talloc, jemalloc... (mozilla...) | 19:54 |
| timeless_mbp | mozilla uses jemalloc for most stuff | 19:54 |
| khorben_ | java has 0xcafebabe | 19:54 |
| timeless_mbp | although parts of it use other things (pldhash has its own uninitialized marker) | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: malloc sanitizes memory on some secure implementations | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | there, I've heard it again: cafe | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: like on linux with grsec/pax | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | but that's only then | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | take a look at pam code | 19:55 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: is that malloc or the kernel allocator? | 19:55 |
| khorben_ | and some implementations use mmap() instead of the heap | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | it cleans memory before free | 19:55 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a rather significant difference | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: kernel allocator | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | + malloc | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | cleaning before free otoh is libc | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | and much more amusing | 19:56 |
| khorben_ | jacekowski: security code should always clear its memory before freeing it | 19:56 |
| khorben_ | and actually, as soon as it's not required anymore | 19:56 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: as in, kernel does it + hardened glibc ( not used very often, can do that as well ) | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | khobern: so... http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/shadow-utils/libmisc/list.c#124 | 19:56 |
| alterego | Just had a couple of ideas for small Qml apps. | 19:56 |
| * alterego starts hacking. | 19:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, you bet I need some coffe plus popcorn now. This starts to get amusing... | 19:57 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: hardened kernel* | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe that code is correct, albeit unforunately written | 19:57 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: that's why on machines with grsec you will get 0'ed memory | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i.e. it would read better to use 'char*' | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | khorben: can you confirm? | 19:57 |
| * timeless_mbp is tired | 19:57 | |
| khorben_ | timeless_mbp: if 1. xmalloc exits if it fails 2. there is no integer overflow, then yes | 19:57 |
| jacekowski | khorben_: woot? | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | khorben: overflow is so much fun | 19:58 |
| jacekowski | exit on malloc fail? | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | we'll ignore that for now | 19:58 |
| jacekowski | that sucks | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: mozilla does that | 19:58 |
| khorben_ | jacekowski: malloc() can fail... | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | virtually nothing else does | 19:58 |
| jacekowski | and another thing, not checking for NULL on malloc | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah... | 19:58 |
| jacekowski | khorben_: yes, and you should check for NULL | 19:58 |
| khorben_ | aria2/intl/relocatable.c | 19:58 |
| khorben_ | line 41 -- # define xmalloc malloc | 19:58 |
| khorben_ | GREAT | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 19:59 |
| jacekowski | not just kill process allocating memory | 19:59 |
| khorben_ | ok it's probably not the one | 19:59 |
| khorben_ | (this cross-reference tool is not helping much) | 19:59 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: we aren't talking about kernel murder | 19:59 |
| timeless_mbp | we're talking about process suicide | 19:59 |
| khorben_ | (even ctags is more clever) | 19:59 |
| timeless_mbp | khorben: for some things it's helpful | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | for xmalloc you'd probably want to use 'shadow::xmalloc' | 20:00 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: still, if process calls malloc and libc terminates on fail it's more like a murder than suicide | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | it should give vaguely better answers | 20:00 |
| khorben_ | of course, but for things like "msg_t" and "xmalloc"... | 20:00 |
| khorben_ | ok, trying | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | khorben: actually probably shadow-::xmalloc or something | 20:00 |
| khorben_ | it was good already | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | shadow-utils::xmalloc | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 20:01 |
| khorben_ | 54 ptr = (char *) malloc (size); | 20:01 |
| khorben_ | 55 if ((NULL == ptr) && (0 != size)) { | 20:01 |
| khorben_ | 56 fprintf (stderr, _("malloc(%d) failed\n"), (int) size); | 20:01 |
| khorben_ | 57 exit (13); | 20:01 |
| khorben_ | casting as int is ridiculous | 20:01 |
| khorben_ | but not a problem here | 20:01 |
| khorben_ | still there is a corner case | 20:02 |
| khorben_ | if size overflows and is 0 | 20:02 |
| khorben_ | then it still can return NULL | 20:02 |
| * timeless_mbp loads http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/ident?i=rtp::pa_rtp_context_init_recv | 20:02 | |
| khorben_ | and the program can crash | 20:02 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | khorben_: strange style | 20:02 |
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| khorben_ | jacekowski: I've been auditing way, way worse code :))) | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | khorben_: in most places people write variable==constant | 20:02 |
| timeless_mbp | khorben: it sounds like you do the same sort of stuff i do :) | 20:03 |
| khorben_ | actually no | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | and here it's opposite | 20:03 |
| khorben_ | constant == variable is better | 20:03 |
| khorben_ | because if you mistype "=" for "==" then it doesn't compile | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | yeah, it will give you an error if you mistype | 20:03 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/pulseaudio/src/modules/rtp/rtp.c#290 | 20:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | khorben: i agree, but it's impossible to get people to change to that style | 20:04 |
| khorben_ | I don't even do it myself | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ohnoes, poor japan. 7.4 | 20:07 |
| pupnik | do they even notice that? | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 20:08 |
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| pupnik | 'waitress, a napkin please, my ramen has spirt' | 20:08 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: again? | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2:30 ago | 20:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15580 filed | 20:12 |
| povbot` | Bug 15580: was not found. | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't include the patch | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | if anyone wants to, they can | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | as a note, MXR includes a 'raw file' link at the top right of each page | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | so you can use that to grab the source and make your patch | 20:13 |
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| pupnik | sdl sleep() isn't buying me much power saving at all :( | 20:54 |
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| ShadowJK | is that plain sleep()? for how long are you sleeping | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Onagawa NPP on auxiliary Diesel generators :-S | 21:02 |
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| RST38h | Doc: What? Another one? | 21:08 |
| ShadowJK | ah, so that's why my arduino is low on power | 21:08 |
| chx | DocScrutinizer: https://twitter.com/#!/JRNHeadlines/status/56028623907471360 | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: quake 7.4 caused power cut on Onagawa NPP, running on emergency local power now | 21:09 |
| RST38h | Doc: Ok, but still on diesel, right? | 21:09 |
| RST38h | chx: You mean, all these people won't get to run-to-the-hills now? | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: see chx link | 21:11 |
| chx | DocScrutinizer: my understanding is that they recovered | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | "Electricity from Onagawa nuclear plant near Sendai went out after quake." ... "Onagawa nuclear plant in Miyagi loses 2 of 3 external power systems " ... "Power recovered at Onagawa nuclear plant following post-earthquake outage." | 21:11 |
| * ShadowJK added the <bold> | 21:12 | |
| ShadowJK | unless it got filtered | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | You should really have gone with <blink> | 21:12 |
| ShadowJK | it doesn't work on anything but BitchX and a proper console | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, here it cancelled the highlight of your post :-D | 21:13 |
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| RST38h | ircii here, all your <crap> efforts for nothing=) | 21:14 |
| ShadowJK | So the first: plant stopped supplying power. Big surprise, it's supposed to automatically shut down during earthquake. Second post: The plant has 3 redundant links to outside grid. Two of them failed. (what about the UPS and diesels??). Third: everything working okay now | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 21:15 |
| RST38h | diesels and ups are not links | 21:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, our TV news here aren't top up-to-date as they used to be on day-2 of the big boom | 21:16 |
| RST38h | so, I guess the diesels worked, until they restored the links, everything is ok, no apocalypse this time, no lulz | 21:16 |
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| RST38h | There is an aticle about schools sending students to help cleaning up after the earthquake in Miyagi | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, my set of 4 pcs spare N900 speakers is kinda more exciting | 21:18 |
| RST38h | With cute schoolgirls in masks shoveling junk | 21:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Quadrophony! | 21:19 |
| RST38h | Will N900 do Dolby with 4 extra speakers? =) | 21:19 |
| pupnik | wonder if there's an oprofile kernel for n900 | 21:19 |
| ShadowJK | It's amusing how media coverage in western world made it look so much more dramatic with everyone wearing facemasks. I guess they forgot to mention that it's socially acceptable to wear a mask anytime over there :-) | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess it will still be able to playback Thomas Dolby, yes ;-P | 21:19 |
| RST38h | Shadowjk: that too | 21:20 |
| RST38h | Shadowjk: but the girls are also in light full-body suits. | 21:20 |
| RST38h | No exactly the bunny suits, but close enough | 21:20 |
| ShadowJK | I've heard companies and corporations hve their own assigned areas of tidying up too, and that the all the staff except critical staff go outside to pick up trash a few days a year? | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: never noticed that aspect, as I'm used to that habit - been in Taipei long enough to not even notice it anymore | 21:22 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK:Very....Soviet. | 21:22 |
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| RST38h | "Naked Florida man opens fire on SWAT bot with AK-47" | 21:26 |
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| pupnik | people need better armaments now | 21:29 |
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| pupnik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_69_RPG | 21:30 |
| pupnik | "The origin of the RPG can be traced back to the WWII German Panzerfaust, based on which the Soviets have developed a range of grenade launchers." | 21:31 |
| pupnik | das ist gut, ja | 21:31 |
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| RST38h | Yeaa, but you can just use the geniune RPG-7 part with a variety of different ammunition types | 21:31 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Too bad the naked guy did not have any, or he could have use it on the police bot | 21:34 |
| pupnik | http://www.operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k187624_Chinese%20Type%2098%20%28PF-98%29%20120mm%20anti-tank%20rocket%20sys.jpg | 21:37 |
| pupnik | "miss, can you stow this for me?" | 21:37 |
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| ZogG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ocq6_3-nEw&feature=youtu.be&a | 22:19 |
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| LjL | so my sister's N810 keeps rebooting in a loop... barely shows the desktop, then blam. anything i can try before reflashing? | 23:14 |
| LjL | i think it's very possible that a full internal disk was partly the cause | 23:18 |
| ArkanoiD- | ah, my scud batteries just arrived | 23:19 |
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| gn00b | OK. i've done a hard reset 3x's now with 3 different *.bin files, but i still have the same error...'Not enough space in application install memory. Uninstall some applications to free enough space for this installation.' can anyone please help??? | 23:56 |
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