IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-03-31

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DocScrutinizerßo/ Turkey plans nuke plants, built by Russians and by Tepco(!) [damn, I thought Tepco bought theirs at GE] - of course at shore and in the most earthquake prone areas they could possibly find. Well, when Chernobyl clowd conaminated large areas in Turkey, their minister stated (honestly): "radioactive tea tastes better!". I called Tepco at Fucku "3 stooges" - I seriously miss the right terms for Turkey00:15
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HtheBSup :)00:18
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DocScrutinizerfrom a macro-darwinistic POV I think it's OK. May the radioactivity sterilize them all. Those who survive are civilizations that were smart enough to kick or even kill their leaders when those tried to sell nuke plants to their people00:19
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DocScrutinizerkudos to Austria00:20
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mvacansomebody help me with my problem? ;)00:27
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infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.00:27
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mvaDocScrutinizer: i was ask it about hour ago ;)00:28
mva»» i've a problem: when i runsome pygtk apps under user some of them has black flat buttons and both black background and foreground color in edit boxes. But when i do "su -" to get root clear environment — all of them working fine (renders all elements in right way).00:29
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DocScrutinizerseems some of your relevant files were installed with wrong permissions00:29
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DocScrutinizercheck for files that miss read perms for group/other00:30
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mvais it any way to check which of them? and, btw, i don't think, that problem is in permissions: when i ran them under sudo — it's the same problem. And problem goes away only with clear root env (after "su -")00:32
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mvaand, btw, where i should check perms? in /home/user?00:32
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DocScrutinizer51if the problem vanishes only on proper root / su -, but not on sudo ginroot / su, then it evidently depends on environment of root, which is ~ and $PATH and envs00:35
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BCMMmva: have you got a screwed-up gtkrc?00:37
BCMM(or $GTK2_RC_FILES)00:37
DocScrutinizer51so, as I still suspect some files are the problem, you should check what's in ~root/* and try set $path of user to that of root temporarily to check00:37
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mvaBCMM: uhm... I don't touch it, but as i see, it is no such GTK2_RC_FILES variable under user (and it IS under root). But, bad thing: if i set it under user to the same value, as it is under root — it is no effect :(00:49
BCMMis it a gtk or qt application?00:49
mvapygtk (some C gtk apps working fine)00:50
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mva(xchat, for example)00:51
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mvabtw, yep, long time ago, it was the same problem with qt apps (sync evolution, for example), but it was fixed by maintainers.00:53
mvaand I don't know how to fix this thing with gtk ;)00:54
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mvabtw, DocScrutinizer51, if i set HOME=/root under user — it is still broken looking in this apps, and even if i set HOME=/home/user under root with "su -" — it is still good. So, i doubt, if it is files fault. But, in other hand, i try to reexport root env under user, and it is no effect too :(01:08
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DocScrutinizerhmm that's strange01:09
DocScrutinizeryou said sudo gainroot doesn't fix. So do sudo gainroot, then bit by bit set env to match that of a proper root env01:10
DocScrutinizerfirst change $HOME to /root, cd01:11
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DocScrutinizerthen set $PATH to that of root env01:11
DocScrutinizercheck app after each change01:11
Sazpaimon__i need to stop chewing on my stylus01:11
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DocScrutinizercontinue with env $vars that are related to gtk (dunno exactly what these are, I think there are some, for theme, font, etc)01:12
DocScrutinizermva: I think BCMM got sth there. You should unset that $GTK2_RC_FILES var under root and see if things break, rather than set it under user and hope it will fix things01:16
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DocScrutinizerodds are there's more than one point of failure (e.g. env var not set, and the files pointed at in that var are not readable for user)01:17
DocScrutinizerso you got a really daunting task to fix the user environment. Better see which of the differences between user and root make root fail when setting them to the state found in user01:18
mvahuh... it break in oter way: this apps looks ugly (default gtk light gray interface with BIG square buttons) :)01:19
mvaand, btw, under user too ;)01:20
DocScrutinizeryou should consider creating a proper backup, then reflash&restore01:20
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DocScrutinizeror, another approach, you could lsof your app under root and under user, and compare which files are open for root but missing/different_path for user01:22
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mvabtw, can somebody paste /etc/hildon/theme/gtk-2.0/gtkrc?01:24
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DocScrutinizerumm sorry, 129kB01:26
mvacan you upload it to :)01:26
BCMMthere really needs to be a sharing plugin for that...01:27
BCMMi wonder how they work01:27
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DocScrutinizermva: | gtkrc.cache01:30
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mvayep, thx01:32
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mvahuh... strange thing... if i delete gtkrc from there — it is identical default gtk's BIG-square gray interface both under root and user. but even with your gtkrc under user i see broken black flat interface ;) (and under root i see it normally). very-very-very strange...01:39
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Sazpaimon__okay this doesnt make sense01:45
Sazpaimon__the same program builds find on an FREEMANTLE_ARMEL target, but FREEMANTLE_X86 errors out01:45
Sazpaimon__error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'HildonProgram'01:45
Sazpaimon__I'm including hildon/hildon-program.h, so i dont know why this isn't working01:46
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zalebHay Pillum leuk dat je wat zegt02:08
Pillumlol wat?02:09
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Pillumanyone here?02:15
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infobot:), DocScrutinizer02:22
infobot- Uptime for ibot -02:22
infobotNow: 32m 17s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux02:22
infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201002:22
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200902:22
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200902:22
chem|stmmh how may I invert/mirror my xserver-display?02:22
chem|stis there xrandr?02:23
DocScrutinizerdunno, thought so02:23
DocScrutinizerumm no02:24
chem|stat least there is libxrandr202:24
chem|stjust remembered having a nice but mirror image when putting the n900 right in front of my speedmeter in car (at night)02:27
SpeedEvilPut the n900 facing down.02:28
SpeedEvilAnd it'll be the right way round.02:28
chem|stSpeedEvil: hehe02:28
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chem|stthe image is mirrored in the plastic shield of the meters...02:28
BCMMchem|st: there is xrandr, the protocol, but there is not /usr/bin/xrandr02:29
BCMMsorry, i mean there is an RandR extension02:29
chem|stalso for having it attached to a projector with rearprojection this feature would be nice02:29
BCMMxrandr would work if you installed it; it works for me when i ssh -x to a machine that has it02:30
chem|stBCMM: yeah now we need programs to make use of it02:30
chem|stlike mappero or columbus02:31
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chem|stand TVout02:31
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DocScrutinizerapt-cache search TVout...02:44
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DocScrutinizer...or xrandr02:46
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chxhm. does skype video chat work on n800 or n810?05:10
Robot101chx: no, they had a stand-alone skype client with no video05:10
Robot101(they have no H264 encoder)05:10
chxAny other way to do video calls?05:10
Robot101yes, the built-in XMPP client has jingle video call support05:11
Robot101however you can only call to people with H26305:11
Robot101which is... rare - google video call uses H264 for example05:11
chxI have Linux.05:11
chxThat means I should have every possible program in existence, lol05:11
Robot101it should work with Empathy on the desktop provided you install gstreamer-ffmpeg plugins with h263 enabled05:12
Robot101it might have bitrotted though, since for a couple of years everyone will have been testing with H26405:12
chxThen maybe two N810 tablets is the best?05:12
Robot101the breakage will be on the Empathy end though, we made it nice and reliable in the N800 and N810 OSes05:13
Robot101that should definitely work, yes05:13
Robot101but if Empathy is broken then you should be able to ask on #telepathy or #farsight for help fixing it05:13
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chxI want to make it easier for my brother to put my 2yrs old nephew on a video call. I am quite a bit far but I truly adore the little guy. Having a webcam is not the best. I was thinking on a tablet that we could hand over to the lil' one.05:14
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chxI was even thinking, you know, maybe a cheap Android tablet, could even play games, but it seems the price for these things are not yet in the range where you'd hand it to a 2yr old.05:15
Robot101so I'll warn you, the quality on the N810 video call isn't amazing05:15
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Robot101there's quite a low resolution because of CPU limitation05:15
Robot101the video accelerator in the OMAP2 didn't have any linux drivers05:15
Robot101so it's doing encoding and decoding on software :(05:16
chxor, i have not seen an Android tablet made by Panasonic or Lenovo -- if there'd be I would buy in a heartbeat if they'd be similar to their laptops, a 2yr old does not have the strenght  to break either05:16
chxi dunno, your run-of-the-mill webcam isnt terribly high res either05:16
Robot101lenovo build quality is going very bad in my experience, my T410s has a screen defect after 1 month05:16
Robot101and my last X200s screen died too05:16
chxreally? i have a t400s that survied everything and my bro is using T series since the dawn of time.05:17
chxand I just bought a t420 :)05:17
Robot101so, newer ones suck more...? :/05:17
Robot101I have a 2 inch wide vertical stripe of random colours which appeared about a third of the way along my screen05:17
Robot101it's... really annoying05:18
chxoh THAT one!05:18
chx is this your problem?05:18
Robot101it used to come and go, pinching the screen at the bottom used to fix it05:18
Robot101but now its here to syau05:18
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chxCall Lenovo, they know about it05:19
Robot101and yeah it's that problem05:20
chxit's so well known they have a page about it.05:20
Robot101I've been travelling the past 2 weeks so never had any time I wanted to send off my computer or wait on-site for a repair05:20
Robot101I tried to find a place in SF who would do a walk-in warranty repair as I know LCD replacement is easy05:21
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Robot101but, well, their list of places in SF was useless - one of them was gone and a the number rang through to a recruitment agency, the other didn't do lenovo repairs, and the third was just a dead number05:21
Robot101I gave up05:21
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chxsomewhat sad05:26
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chxstill, these kinds of problems alas reach every manufacturer05:26
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chxto me this looks like a soldering defect where the ribbon cable reaches the lcd but i might be totally wrong -- it might be a soldering diefect elsewhere :)05:26
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ZogGi <3 maemo every day more and more07:28
ZogGi ♥* maemo every day more and more07:28
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* pupnik is frustrated by segfault on n900 which doesn't appear on x8607:35
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ruskie <-- haha08:45
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ruskie <-- cute08:55
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pupnikmornin ruskie09:02
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pupnik   hmm09:05
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keithzgOne one hand, I think (especially since the original story came from a guy with previous ties to Microsoft) the whole thing is just FUD.09:21
keithzgOn the other hand, if Google gets bit in an ironic twist outcome of their attempt to "keep GPL out of user space" it kindof serves them right.09:22
keithzgAnd then on the third hand, it had been a few years since some real, substantial FUD was flying around, it's nicely nostalgic :)09:22
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krayonWhy didn't anyone ask him if it was public record etc etc, WHY did he remove it a week before?09:24
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keithzgCertainly doesn't give the impression of someone with nothing to hide, eh? But if they invalidate his claims by nailing him on that question, then there's no news story left.09:25
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krayonThe sad part is, if he HADN'T they wouldn't listen at all, just saying "oh well, OBVIOUSLY he's just saying it for MS"09:31
krayonHim being involved with them doesn't mean he's not right, but yeah, trying to hide it (and not getting away with it) looks worse.09:32
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pupnikyep yep09:51
* pupnik agrees with keithzg and krayon 09:51
pupnikwell i have a workaround for this game and the tiny (!) n900 screen09:52
ds3pupnik: got a work around for chording keys on the n900?09:52
pupnikwhat's the problem ds3 ?09:52
krayonpupnik: What game?09:52
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ds3pupnik: stella... I can't chord keys so it makes it a bit tricky to play some games (i.e. can't fire and move)09:53
pupnikds3: you mean you cannot fire and move at the same time?09:54
pupniki thought n900 supported multiple keypresses09:54
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krayonI've not had any issues related to multi-key press09:56
krayonI at least press 2/3 at a time using my Game Gripper09:57
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krayonpupnik: Thanks, gonna try this out :)09:59
krayonNow, off 'ome...09:59
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ds3pupnik: yep10:00
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ds3more specifically, I can't jump and move. makes it hard to play pitfall :D10:00
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pupnikds3: who is the stella porter?10:02
ds3pupnik: you10:03
pupnikyou're using that old thing :/10:03
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ds3at least you gave me the link to the deb; it was for the N8xx and I had to force install it10:03
ds3is there a newer/better one?10:03
pupniki just sort of assumed there would be10:03
ds3heh... I think I pestered you about it enough that you gave me the link to that old one10:04
pupniki am sorry, that does suck10:04
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pupnikmaybe there's a quick fix ds310:05
ds3it really does burn power though10:06
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pupnikds3: perhaps there's a more optimized emulator available?10:22
ds3pupnik: not for the 2600 hardware10:23
pupnikds3: i thought you could emulate that with a lego set by now10:23
ds3I do wonder if a USB keyboard/mouse would do better... but that takes some setup10:23
ds3it isn't that primative of a chip!!10:24
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ds3that thing has to sync video on a very primative way10:25
pupnikahh yes scanline10:27
crashanddie"in" and "primitive"10:28
pupnikthey didn't have enough memory for a full bitmap10:28
pupnik4197 tiles converted10:29
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arcoldo somebody know how could I disable editing the desktop (on maemo) by longpressing the display10:33
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zalebHay phap leuk dat je wat zegt10:33
arcolit just misalign very often my desktop while the phone is in the pocket10:33
phapzaleb, I don't understand sorry10:33
dubfunkedhe thinks you're dutch10:37
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crashanddiezaleb, english please10:57
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phapwell anyway11:14
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phapI think I'm dreaming but is there anybody who knows how to display only the album art which is currently playing with media player on the desktop with a simple command?11:15
phapor relative simple?11:15
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: did you mean that maemo-tvout-control?11:22
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keithzgphap: the closed source nature of the default media player makes such things far harder than they should be :(11:39
lcukphap, keithzg :) there is an open source media player in production11:40
lcuka rewrite of the UI using Qt and talking to the MAFW backend (just like the original one) :)11:41
keithzgnice; yet another reason I gotta get myself a backup N900 just in case, haha, it just keeps getting better.11:41
phapI hope it's coming soon then11:42
phapI tried to compile the media player widget but could'nt11:43
phap*from source11:43
lcukcrashanddie, could you perhaps guide these restless souls towards the TMO thread?11:43
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crashanddielcuk? Sorry?11:46
crashanddiewhat am I, the doorman?11:46
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chem|stphap: the mediaplayer gets a cssu relplacement some time11:47
chem|stcrashanddie: you look more like a chef, may i have breakfast then?11:48
phapI hope it'll be customizable11:48
lcukcrashanddie, I mistakenly thought you would know which thread it was on since you were hacking around with it yourself :P11:49
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* crashanddie stuffs chem|st's face full with eggs11:49
crashanddieHAHA! Can't talk!11:49
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chem|stI guess it will be open source11:49
crashanddielcuk, I've been on TMO once in the last year or so :P11:49
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ruskie <-- haha12:12
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cmantitoout of curiosity, has anyone had any luck with MfE + Exch 2010?13:04
timeless_w7ipcmantito: i think nokia is using it13:07
timeless_w7ipwhich would give a fairly sizable userbase13:07
cmantitoI had it working with Exch 07, but when I try to use it with Exch 2010 it just will not connect, it's quite strange.13:08
timeless_w7ipyou'd have to tell me how to figure out if i'm using 2010 :)13:09
timeless_w7ipi know we got a visual refresh for OWA13:09
timeless_w7ipwhich basically made OWA work in Firefox and other non IE browsers13:09
cmantitois it yellowish now? :P13:10
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timeless_w7ipit used to be blue13:11
cmantitothat's 2010 then13:11
* timeless_w7ip is rather amused13:12
timeless_w7ipsuch a simple, convenient, efficient and effective version test13:12
* timeless_w7ip scores +1 to the ms ui team13:12
timeless_w7iplcuk: no greetings?13:13
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timeless_w7ipoh, on the subject of UI/UX13:13
timeless_w7ipcmantito: ... what do you do outside of #maemo?13:13
* timeless_w7ip is looking for someone to bumble through a web site13:14
timeless_w7ipdefine:  to bumble13:14
cmantitotimeless_w7ip, I do a lot of things, could you be more specific? :)13:14
timeless_w7ip... to wander aimlessly through, accidentally tripping on things, stumbling over things, bumping into things, and crying "ouch"13:14
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timeless_w7ipcmantito: / are web sites13:14
timeless_w7ipbut they until this morning had a link on their main page which led to a page which always generated errors13:15
timeless_w7ipthe code to lead to that path was probably 5-10 years old13:15
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timeless_w7ipbut people didn't effectively communicate this to me, so i didn't realize what was going wrong / fix it :(13:15
timeless_w7ipif you could look at the site and suggest ways to improve it, that'd be wonderful :)13:16
timeless_w7ipi'm thinking that perhaps the content area on the right should be moved into an "about.html" page leaving only the box on the left13:17
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cmantitotimeless_w7ip, ok when I get some time I'll take a look13:26
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DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: prepare for a lot of 'ouch' and crying. mxr always exposed ... issues... to me14:20
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lcukooh DocScrutinizer really, like what?14:23
DocScrutinizermostly search not working like expected14:23
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lcukmece, yes you are.14:24
DocScrutinizerbut that changed several times during last maybe 6 months, so I'm not sure what's status now14:24
lcukDocScrutinizer, curious, whenever I have had to dig around found mxr to be closest to old offline tool I used to use in Windows days14:25
lcukbut anything has potential glitches14:25
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DocScrutinizeras has my knowledge about how to use this tool properly, e.g. I'm not sure if it's mxr's fault or mine, when I miss the "defined at:" proper reference and only several 'referenced at:" hits are displayed14:34
DocScrutinizermight easily be my poor understanding of complex c code and how it works14:36
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Termanagood morning14:51
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DocScrutinizergood moaning14:56
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DocScrutinizer[2011-03-31 01:31:12] <chem|st> and TVout14:59
DocScrutinizerchem|st: no idea what *I* meant14:59
DocScrutinizer[2011-03-31 04:10:38] <chx> Any other way to do video calls?  --- SIP can do video calls, at least it offers and tries to establish - never had a chance to test it due to missing peer/account with same properties15:01
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DocScrutinizerchx^zzz: (tough devices) panasonic toughbook. The 'old' ones (c-27 e.g.) are cheapish on ebay. You can't destroy them by running over them with a van15:07
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DocScrutinizerbuilt to military standards (and that's probably where majority of used ones comes from)15:14
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: was about mirroring Xdisplay15:21
DocScrutinizerchem|st: no idea. Heard xrandr can do it15:21
chem|stbut we only have xserver xtensions but no program makeing use of it15:22
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DocScrutinizerI searched for jebba's repository of 34711 debian pkkgs compiled under SB/fremantle, but couldn't find it anymore15:23
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Macerg2 doesnt stall out on the tmob connection like the n900 does15:23
chem|stthat was what I was looking for too...15:24
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Macerit seems smooth. weird15:24
DocScrutinizera pity15:24
Macerwhen my n900 switches between 2 3 and 3.5G it stalls out and i usually lose my ssh session15:24
Macerwonder how meego is doing15:25
chem|stMacer: 2 to 3 it should be normal15:25
chem|st3 to 3.5 depends15:25
Macerchem|st: i know ;)15:25
Macerwell. it was driving me nuts15:26
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Macerthe n900 was dated anyways15:26
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chem|stI stay 2g if I want a steady link15:26
Macerand with meego taking forever and nokia abandonment seems worthless now15:26
chem|stI go 3.x for fast downloads if needed15:26
DocScrutinizeryeah Macer, I heard there's no exact specs how 2G<->3G handover is to be handled. It's kinda of defacto standard where each side (modem manufs, carriers) tries his best, and if sth fails then each side points fingers on the other15:26
Macerchem|st: well. you shouldnt have to do that15:26
chem|stMacer: that highly depends on your operator's network15:27
MacerDocScrutinizer: heh. well. it seems to work in the same area just fine on the g215:27
DocScrutinizerquite possible15:27
Macerdropping between 2 3 and 4G15:27
chem|stsome operators deactivate the AP handover15:27
Macerwithout a hiccup15:27
DocScrutinizermaybe the implementation in g2 and t-mo play nice together15:28
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DocScrutinizererrr what? 4G?15:28
Macerwell.... H15:28
Macerif you want to call that 4G15:28
chem|stthat is not 4g15:28
DocScrutinizerthere's a very clear spec about what 2G 2.5, 3G and 3.5 means15:29
DocScrutinizer4G is LTS15:29
Macerrly? so why do they market it as 4G"15:29
DocScrutinizerwhich afaik only in sweden is used yet in small areas, for testing15:29
Maceri thought H was hpda15:30
DocScrutinizerhpda not existent. There's HS[U|D]PA15:30
DocScrutinizerwhich all is called 3.5G15:31
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DocScrutinizerto be specific this is UMTS HSPA15:31
chem|stMacer: actualy it is 3g as there is no official 3.5g afair15:31
Macerand hspa+?15:31
DocScrutinizerGSM is 2G, 2G+EDGE=2.5G. UMTS=3G, 3G+HSxPA=3.5G15:32
DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing like HSPA+15:32
Macerwell. seems rather false advertising15:32
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Macerclever marketing?15:33
chem|stMacer: there is a false advertising of 3.9G as 4G as it will be compatible to "real" 4G but is actualy 3G15:34
DocScrutinizer3.9G? o.O15:34
chem|stamof they do not even meet ITU specs15:35
chem|st"Confusion has been caused by some mobile carriers who have launched products advertised as 4G but which are actually current technologies, commonly referred to as '3.9G', which do not follow the ITU-R defined principles for 4G standards."15:36
chem|streads wikipedia15:36
chem|st"Current LTE and WiMAX implementations are considered pre-4G"15:37
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chem|stwimax2 and LTEadvanced are considered to become 4G15:37
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Macer100mb/s huh?15:38
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Maceritu says they can be considered 4g15:40
Macergave in to $ huh?15:40
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Macerbecause they are based on the new tech the carrier may use to reach the standard15:41
Macerwhat a racket haha15:41
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DocScrutinizerok, I've been wron LTE!=4G15:43
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DocScrutinizerpff there's even HSPA+15:46
lcuktincan string is the new sneakernet15:47
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DocScrutinizertook a while to parse15:50
* DocScrutinizer prefers lazors15:51
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DocScrutinizernot exactly sneaker, but close, way extended operation range, and cool ;-)15:51
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DocScrutinizera nice widened beam collimated IR-laser can build a directed communications channel several tens of km distance15:55
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lcukDocScrutinizer, but you need line of sight.15:55
DocScrutinizermodulo rain/fog doesn't really care15:56
lcukor a laser powerful enough to create its own tunnel15:56
* DocScrutinizer wants to see lcuk pulling his strin thru a hole in next building15:56
lcukRFC 103291 telephony using tincans and quantum strings.15:57
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕15:58
* DocScrutinizer wonders if the flu creates the need for coffee, or the coffee makes him feel like flu15:59
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: (laser strong enough) I suggest a less instantly dangerous path: moon/cloud/satellite scatter, sth well known at amateur radio (well, maybe not for the clouds there)16:09
lcukDocScrutinizer, shining a sufficiently bright laser into the sky can only lead to one thing:16:10
lcukbatman appearing.16:10
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* DocScrutinizer ponders WSJT over 14kHz accoustic, to replace lcuk 's string. Could probably get implemented on every standard smartphone, esp N900. Possible range: up to maybe 1000m16:19
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DocScrutinizerjaska: ROTFL16:21
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DocScrutinizerjaska: absolutely to the point :-) Best one since long16:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk: see? It's not batman16:22
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DocScrutinizerlook more like rabBITman16:24
* DocScrutinizer can't stop cackling16:25
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jigrapis it ok to put the SDK repo in my n900 natively?16:30
jigrapI'd like to install some applications such as screen and strace16:31
jigrapoh ok16:31
jigrapso what's the right way to do it?16:31
jigrapI have scratchbox setup16:31
crashanddieyou can add it to install a few apps16:31
jigrapis it ok if I copy the .deb files from my scratchbox to my n90016:31
crashanddiebut don't keep it activated, and don't run stupid things like apt-get upgrade16:32
jigrapjust need a few apps yea16:32
jigrapI'll just activate it for a few things16:32
jigrapand then comment it out16:32
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jigrapI've had an issue where libglade is crashing when I try to load a glade file from pygtk and I wanted to debug it16:33
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer, lcuk: it is batman!
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ZogGhey guys16:49
ZogGsup sup16:49
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jigrapwhich debian version is the latest maemo based on? I want to find the right source package for python-glade2?16:54
jigrapfor scratchbox I meant16:54
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: use your noisebox (aka PC speaker) instead of a string! ->
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n900-stuffhey all17:36
n900-stuffi have a lil question about scratchbox17:36
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n900-stuffusing scratchbox vm, I have built the hildon-desktop in the arm target, and it has produced the deb file for the hildon desktop. Now i want to install this file so that the emulator shows me the effects of my changes, the one that we run inside the Xephyr17:40
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n900-stuffumm from the "[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/src2] > " I type the "dpkg -i hildon-desktop_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb", but it says i'm not root17:40
E0xwhoami what say ?17:41
n900-stuffand if i type "sudo dpkg -i hildon-desktop_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb" its says sudo: must be setuid root17:41
MohammadAGfakeroot dpkg -i...17:41
n900-stuffok wait MohammadAG lemme try17:41
MohammadAGwhy are you installing it anyway17:41
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MohammadAGit's not like you can bring up the UX in ARMEL anyway17:42
n900-stuffso how do i test my changes?17:42
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n900-stuffdeploy it on the device?17:42
MohammadAGthat would be a start17:42
MohammadAGor compile for X86 and run it there17:42
MohammadAGbut I test it on device17:43
n900-stuffwhen we compile for x86, the xephyr emulator will be able to run it ?17:43
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chem|sttarget for scratchbox is x86 target for n900 is armel17:44
chem|stif you wnat to install to device armel if you want to install to "xephyr"(scratchbox) it is 8617:45
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n900-stuffso if i'm here "[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >  " it means i'm building for x86. Now when the deb file is built, On the same prompt (environment) I can do an install, then when I run xephyr, its going to have my changes there?17:45
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chem|stMohammadAG: have you got any clue how to mirror Xdisplay on n900? the xrandr extension are there but no xrandr17:46
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MohammadAGum, you can install xrandr on the N900 afaik17:46
MohammadAGnot sure if it's in the repos, but I had it once17:47
chem|stfrom debian/arm?17:47
MohammadAGnah, I never install stuff that way17:47
MohammadAGget the source and compile it17:47
n900-stuffAnd what about debugging MohammadAG? I mean, right now I'm just opening files in VI, make a lil change, build it, and then going to deploy and see changes, but this way the debugging is going to be pretty hard. Is stepping into the source on certain events supported?17:47
MohammadAGnot sure, never debugged it, but I'm guessing gdb?17:48
n900-stuffand how do I do that?17:48
* GAN900 wishes for hardware.17:48
DocScrutinizerHAHA >>Although I was not able to make wspr running on Linux using pulseaudio,...17:48
MohammadAGGAN900, +117:48
* MohammadAG wants Maemo 5 on new HW17:48
chem|stMohammadAG: +117:49
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chem|stdon't know why nokia doesn't just do it...17:49
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E0xmaemo 5 complete open17:50
n900-stuffso MohammadAG, when you are changing the hildon source and adding features, you (and other cssu guys i suppose) just change source on some text editor, then build and run (and repeat), no stepping in the source code?17:51
MohammadAGpretty much, yeah17:51
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viszthat's what we in finland call 'stabbing the duck'17:52
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chem|stno replace core and ram with something newer add a compass and ship it... no major hardware change would mean no major coding effort for drivers and stuff17:52
DocScrutinizerprintf() pretty much still the most popular debugging method17:53
chem|stDocScrutinizer: +117:53
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SpeedEvilchem|st: maybe bump the VGA cam quality a tiny fraction.17:53
DocScrutinizerI for one prefer gdb whenever possible17:53
MohammadAGadd HDMI and a compass17:54
SpeedEvilHDMI is a major change.17:54
SpeedEvilThere are many almost pin compatible changes that can be done 'easily'17:54
chem|sthdmi and 12mp cam?17:54
chem|stbut thats it... not much of a change17:54
SpeedEvilDifferent cam, for example.17:54
MohammadAG15MP, 12MP is meh17:55
SpeedEvilOr keyboard layout.17:55
chem|stn8 uses the same socket...17:55
SpeedEvilI want a decent 5MP17:55
SpeedEvilThe existing one is around 2.517:55
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, tried the iPhone's?17:55
MohammadAG(just wondering)17:55
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: no.17:55
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: You mean to compare the quality with the n00?17:55
chem|st10mp for but with a much better chip suits me17:55
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, yeah17:56
SpeedEvilnope, then.17:56
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: I don't ownany apple proucts anymore.17:56
SpeedEvilI eated them.17:56
E0xi will happen with the same hardware but just vsync and better software for camera ( one that can process image better )17:56
MohammadAGE0x, check out nicolai's rewrite17:57
chem|stso upgrade of IR from cir to irda is one wire added as the chips already supporting it, it is just not connected17:57
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MohammadAGit'll be in the next CSSU17:57
SpeedEvilmore ROM/RAM would be 90% of it.17:57
SpeedEvilFor me.17:57
SpeedEvilErr - more RAM, even.17:57
SpeedEvilAnd the faster processor grade.17:57
SpeedEvilIt's still only 720, but 720/512'd be a nice bump.17:57
DocScrutinizerkick 15mp cam with a lens/aperture the size of a pinhole :-(17:58
E0xMohammadAG: nicola rewrite is the the same backend afaik and what i see he is not doing anything change of the way that camera handle picture because still are very noisy picture and some iso problems17:58
chem|stI would be happy with ram cpu/gpu upgrades as well, a compass would be nice but not a must have17:58
E0xmaybe in the future will better17:58
DocScrutinizerI want a 1" sensor17:58
E0xSpeedEvil: indeed i forget that too , more ram17:58
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: buy a DSLR...17:58
MohammadAGE0x, noise is prolly cause the lens sucks17:59
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: The lens can't be much bigger.17:59
chem|stit would be enough to have the cam app start in under 5 seconds to take snapshots... (thats for an uptime of 9+ days)17:59
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: The problem is the sensor is too small to allow for the resolution.17:59
SpeedEvilMany of my issues aren't really HW issues at all.18:00
E0xMohammadAG: hmm i don't much about photographic but i doubt is because lense18:00
MohammadAGthen it's because the sensor sucks :P18:00
SpeedEvilMost, even.18:00
MohammadAGE0x, it is18:00
MohammadAGtry the N95, I'm pretty sure that doesn't do good processing either18:00
DocScrutinizerI want a 1" sensor18:00
E0xSpeedEvil: noise problem is because the sensor ?18:00
SpeedEvilE0x: The sensor does surprisingly well, for the limited number of photons hitting it.18:01
SpeedEvilE0x: Size is the major cause of the low performance in the dark.18:01
SpeedEvil(though good for its class)18:01
DocScrutinizersmall sensor == less light18:01
DocScrutinizerless light == more noise18:01
E0xtrue , because in much light the picture look good18:02
SpeedEvil2 photons = ~0.2 electrons (after the filters and stuff).18:02
DocScrutinizerthat's why 15mp is MEH on such a form factor18:02
E0xi have a few photo at beach and look great18:02
MohammadAGthough tbh, I find nicolai's rewrite much better18:02
SpeedEvilSo you need at least a few thousand photons hitting each pixel to get a reasonably noise-free image.18:02
MohammadAGit snaps the pic faster, so the pics end up sharper even if you shake the cam after taking the pic18:02
SpeedEvilAnd that's in theory - there is probably an irreducable 20 or 50 photoelectron noise in there too.18:03
MohammadAGwhereas with the stock UI, I have to keep the phone still for like 3-5s18:03
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DocScrutinizermore pixels on same area of chip == less light / pixel18:03
chem|stDocScrutinizer: yeah a bigger sensor with 8mp would be fair enough for a smartphone18:04
E0xwell actual maemo 5 in new hardware will not that good  but maemo 5 fixing some of the stock app in the same hardware ( n900 ) will make a great device18:04
DocScrutinizerbigger sensor == longer F18:04
E0xand i think is the CSSU big atractive18:04
MohammadAGno, maemo 5 would be good on new hardware18:04
DocScrutinizerso deeper formfactor. You need some tricks to get that into a smartphone18:05
MohammadAGjust up the kernel and dump closed apps18:05
E0xMohammadAG: exactly18:05
E0xthat is my point , actual maemo need that fixed first18:05
chem|stDocScrutinizer: there is lots of space... already18:05
DocScrutinizerthere is?18:06
chem|stat least 1.5mm if you remove the stupid housing and put a dust shield directly on the sensor18:07
DocScrutinizeras a rule of thumb you can say a cam module always is cube'ish18:07
chem|stthe sensor itself isn't flat on top either18:07
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DocScrutinizerso my 1" sensor needs a lens protruding 1" from the sensor plane18:08
chem|stDocScrutinizer: not talking of its cubic formfactor but the thickness18:08
chem|stand not talking of 1" sensors O_o18:09
DocScrutinizer-> without tricks the "phone" is 30mm thick then18:09
E0xtricks ?18:09
DocScrutinizermirrors etc18:09
E0xmugen battery you mean ?18:09
DocScrutinizeryou can "fold" the light path18:09
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DocScrutinizeror simply use a zoom-out lens like almost all the better compact cams do18:15
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DocScrutinizeruse a holographic lens, a holographic picture of a (virtual) lens hoovering 2" above the device. Place that holo-gobo relatively close on top of the sensor, full area full apperture18:17
DocScrutinizer(probably a idiotic idea, mut quite intriguing)18:18
DocScrutinizeryeah, alas it's nonsense :-P18:20
DocScrutinizerwon't do anything faintly similar to a real large lens18:21
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E0xslide to answer :
chem|stless poor materials on top of the sensor == more light...18:22
E0xat 2:3018:22
chem|stso what?18:23
chem|stWFM was always my answer... I never *repeat* never ever accidentially answered a call18:24
E0xWFM ?18:24
infobotwell, wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications..  Works For Me18:24
DocScrutinizerI sometimes accidently rejected a call18:24
DocScrutinizer~wtf wfm18:25
infobotWFM: works for me18:25
chem|stin short^^18:25
chem|stDocScrutinizer: with better materials (surface conditioning) the n900 could get 25% more light I would claim18:26
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E0xnot sure if you happen to you guys but the glich when the device is locked happen to me18:26
E0xtime to time18:26
DocScrutinizera "mute ringtone" button/function would be way more needed (imho) than a slide-to-answer18:26
E0xtha incremese the rate of wrong rejected calls18:26
chem|stDocScrutinizer: function is...18:27
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: just turn it up side down and it silences18:27
chem|stmeans screen down18:27
DocScrutinizerduh, seems I forgot :-D18:27
E0xchem|st: yes but that have a bug18:27
E0xor not a bug but a missing feature18:28
chem|stworks with alarms and calls for me18:28
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chem|stE0x: what do you mean18:28
E0xif somebody call you and you flip it it work18:28
E0xbut if the same ppl call you again18:28
E0xthe phone ring18:28
DocScrutinizerwhich brings me to another alternative concept to "slide to answer": shake prior to pushbutton to answer18:28
chem|stE0x: yes so?18:28
chem|styou want a block list?18:29
E0xnot but stay in muted mode till i flip back it18:29
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DocScrutinizernah, E0x complains about a feature18:29
chem|stget it yeah18:29
E0xyes that is what i say : bug of missing feature18:29
chem|stactualy I *do not* want it to be silenced for good if turned18:30
DocScrutinizerI'd consider this a really bad feature if it stays muted as long as it sits there face down18:30
chem|stDocScrutinizer: +118:30
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chem|stif I turn of my alarm that way and someone calls me while it is turned...18:31
chem|stor the other way round...18:31
DocScrutinizerE0x: if you want that, you easily can implement via orientation aware daemon (e.g. dwimd) plus setting profile=silent18:31
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chem|stor I turn it for my mum and minutes later my sister calls...18:31
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E0xDocScrutinizer: yes, i was thinking in that18:31
E0xRight NOW18:32
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DocScrutinizerglad to help :-D18:32
E0xhehe i was cool in a meeting somebody calle me and i forget to change the profile of the n900 so i remember the feature18:33
E0xand just flip it18:33
E0xsome ppl there say Wow18:33
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DocScrutinizerseems N900 has much more WOWs than we usually are aware of18:35
E0xbut not was a great crowd  neither18:35
E0xDocScrutinizer: heh18:35
GAN900Wee, tornados18:35
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E0xthe phone has great great potencial but no so well implementation18:36
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* DocScrutinizer envisions GAN900 jump his stormchaser van18:36
MohammadAGheh, a classmate had his phone ring and the display didn't go on18:36
MohammadAGhe couldn't silence it, i took it from him and flipped it18:36
MohammadAGthe class kinda lol'd at that18:36
E0xthat was a bad and the same time good moment for the n90018:37
MohammadAGand yeah, flip to silence then set silent profile18:37
MohammadAGthat would be better than keeping it silent when it's flipped18:37
MohammadAGsometimes I sleep with headphones in my ears and flip the N90018:38
MohammadAGE0x, tbh, I think his proximity sensor's borked18:38
MohammadAGI had to slide the lock switch to unlock the screen18:39
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DocScrutinizerconcept: when flipping->mute, check prox sensor for 5 s. If after 5s still no prox detection->switch to silent18:39
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DocScrutinizerso E0x can flip and hold for 5s, then put on desk18:40
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DocScrutinizerothers just flip and put on desk18:40
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG flipps by accident -> also no problem, as it won't magically hoover for 5s (unless dropped from a skyscraper :-P)18:41
E0xwhich  muted will be the last of his problem18:42
DocScrutinizerthat's what I meant :-D18:42
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chem|stwhat about skydiving... ever thought of it...18:43
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DocScrutinizerhmm, I fail to spot the problem18:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, i just do an air flip18:44
MohammadAGno desks required :P18:44
chem|stI'd love to have it check for proximity changes > 3cm to mute a call or an alarm18:45
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: rrright. So you'd have to flip back upright in less than 5s, otherwise profile=silent. Not too hard to accomplish, eh?18:45
chem|stMohammadAG: yeah it is using accelerometers not proximity18:45
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DocScrutinizererrr, you all missed the point?? impossible18:46
MohammadAGI wonder if there's actually a dbus signal on flipping the device18:46
chem|sthaving the jedi gesture is still a feature I'd love :(18:46
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MohammadAGI'd make a daemon in Qt, shouldn't take 5 mins18:46
MohammadAGif call arrived, check orientation, if down, phone will be muted, fire a QTimer of 5000ms, if proximity is closed, set profile to silent18:47
DocScrutinizerthere's all you need already out there. No need to "make a daemon"18:47
MohammadAGsounds easy18:47
chem|stthat needs a setting in phone settings then...18:47
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MohammadAGI still want the tap feature of the accelerometer18:48
chem|sttap feature?18:48
MohammadAGit can detect taps18:48
DocScrutinizerthere's for sure a dbus-signal you can catch, for orientation. You can go with dbus-scripting, or exploit dwimd which is meant to do exactly such things18:48
chem|stah ok18:48
MohammadAGthe E66 did that18:48
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer said it was missing code in the driver18:49
DocScrutinizertap/double-tap is not supported by lis302dl driver18:49
MohammadAGbut is by the HW18:49
MohammadAGsomeone hack it in please :P18:49
DocScrutinizerdetection *can* be done in lis30218:49
DocScrutinizerbut there's no userland software using this new sysnode triggering an event yet18:50
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MohammadAGthere can be18:50
DocScrutinizeryou only need an augmented driver in PK18:51
DocScrutinizerit's kinda simple to implement18:51
MohammadAGcan you do it?18:51
chem|stwhere do I find HW specs of the proxi sensor?18:51
DocScrutinizerI for sure could, if I could find the mood to dive into kernel hacking18:52
MohammadAGwhy do you need those?18:52
DocScrutinizerchem|st: nowhere18:52
DocScrutinizerchem|st: completely unclear what a component this is18:52
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: too smal for proper label on it18:52
chem|stis there a proper readout possible?18:52
MohammadAGsee proximityd18:53
chem|stdistance I mean?18:53
DocScrutinizerchem|st: and as you know we got no component names on schematics18:53
MohammadAGit's either open or closed18:53
DocScrutinizerchem|st: nope, this is a switch18:53
DocScrutinizerhas 3 contacts afaik18:53
chem|stby driver I guess18:53
DocScrutinizerno driver18:53
DocScrutinizerit's a switch18:54
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MohammadAG200Hz is the rate afaik18:55
DocScrutinizerof lis302?18:55
DocScrutinizeror what?18:55
MohammadAGwell, it fires a "light" every 0.2s18:56
MohammadAGand Qt Mobility's N900 plugin states 200ms18:56
DocScrutinizerit's a hw that sends an ultrashort light strobe every 0.x seconds, and monitors the reflection. If reflection detected it pulls the signal pin low18:56
MohammadAGyeah, 0.2s18:57
DocScrutinizerso that's nowhere near anything like 200Hz18:58
DocScrutinizerit's more like this swich can operate at max 2.5Hz18:58
MohammadAGsorry, meant ms, not Hz18:59
MohammadAGwhich would be 5Hz18:59
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DocScrutinizer1Hz == one on AND off / s18:59
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MohammadAGoh, then it's 5/2, as you said19:00
DocScrutinizerso with one probe every 200ms the switch can do 2.5Hz, not 519:00
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: got a pointer to QtMob's statement about that prox sensor?19:03
MohammadAGon the N900 atm, sec19:03
MohammadAGthinking of getting an Archos for browsing19:04
DocScrutinizerthinking of getting a coffin filled with salt19:04
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DocScrutinizermybe I conserve a lil bit better that way19:05
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MohammadAGhmm, it says 100Hz19:06
DocScrutinizerI'm not surprised19:06
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DocScrutinizerWAAAAAAAH!!! it POLLS!19:08
MohammadAGit takes 7-17% CPU time, that's why I don't use it19:08
DocScrutinizerOK, let me state one think: QtMob IS UTTER CRAP19:09
DocScrutinizerhave those morons ever heard about kevents?19:09
DocScrutinizerthat's what sysfs is all about, that's what IRQs are all about19:09
MohammadAGor mce, since it's N900 specific anyway19:09
DocScrutinizeryou FUCKING DO NOT poll peripherals that are IRQ based. The purpose of IRQs is to wake the CPU when there's something to do. ***NOT*** I repeat NOT to poll the sensor 100 times a second to find out if sth changed, and ignoring the IRQ19:11
DocScrutinizerOh my Gosh, when even Qt guys are so stupid, how can I blame meego devels about not having any clue19:12
* DocScrutinizer is waiting for some good minded soul to prod him to open a ticket against that crap.19:13
DocScrutinizerI WON'T - I'm PISSED SINCE LONG19:14
E0xjust open the ticked and say : THIS IS A CRAP FIX IT19:14
DocScrutinizerall those "cute" sw devels who think they know everything about hw and don't need somebody like me19:14
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MohammadAGI'd submit a patch if I knew how to read those interrupts19:15
DocScrutinizerit's a think called kevents (iirc) - udev uses them a lot. You register with a sysfs node and get a callback whenever there's sth interesting happening19:16
DocScrutinizerit's a fundamental concept of sysfs19:17
MohammadAGfunny thing is it's using FILE *fd instead of QFile19:18
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DocScrutinizerthere's *nothing* funny about that crap in my book19:18
E0xjump to monitoring interface19:20
MohammadAGexcuse my noobish question, but this is somewhat similar to gconf's value changed signal right?19:20
E0xi think that is what is needed19:20
DocScrutinizer>>libudev also provides a monitoring interface. The monitoring interface will report events to the application when the status of a device changes.19:22
E0xDocScrutinizer: kqueue is teh name19:23
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E0xnot sure the dif beteween kqueues and libudev19:23
DocScrutinizerlibudev obviously is for udev19:24
E0xi mean in which is more proper for n900 or maemo19:24
DocScrutinizerwell, I loosely followed how FSO is doing these things (initially on Openmoko devices), so my knowledge is not from using it but only from speedreading the code there19:25
DocScrutinizerSo I'll not bother to dig out the bookmarks for the code to use those kevents/kqueues/knotifications/whatever19:27
DocScrutinizerI know there are proper methods and tools to implement this in a non.polling way like sysfs is meant to be used19:28
DocScrutinizerI CBA anymore about crap like qtmob or sensorfw going nasty and stupid, as nobody pays me for educating so called professionals19:29
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E0xinotifylook like is the thing19:30
E0xwell time to lunch ,bbl19:31
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MohammadAGremind me to dump QMaemo5InformationBox for my own libhildon-based class19:34
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jacekowskiit looks like i may be unemployed from 1st of april19:43
jacekowskior whatever long it takes for hmrc to close company19:44
GeneralAntillesApril Fools? :(19:44
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jacekowski2 months ago they took some of company vans19:45
jacekowskiand well, it's payday and there is nothing in my account ( and everybody elses )19:45
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: WTF?!19:46
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: ?19:48
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: what shitty news19:49
jacekowskinot so much19:50
jacekowskifor last half year i was doing fuck all19:50
jacekowskiwith some occasional jobs19:50
jacekowskino i just have motivation to look for something better19:51
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jacekowskiit's just that there is nothing within reasonable distance19:51
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DocScrutinizerheh, so you decided to blow up the rocks? :-D19:59
jacekowskiwell, i'm thinking about doing it hardcore way20:00
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jacekowskiwhich is piss of my current employer as much as i can20:01
DocScrutinizeroh, the exploding freq converter wasn't good enough?20:01
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, it wasn't my fault, i was doing everything as said by manufacturer20:01
jacekowskito that point20:01
DocScrutinizererr :-)20:01
DocScrutinizer(blame blindtyping)20:02
jacekowskibefore i got to doing some clever stuff it exploded20:02
DocScrutinizerI suggest you better lift the expensive devices and sell on ebay rather than blow up20:02
jacekowskiyeah, i already made sure that expensive stuff is in my car20:03
DocScrutinizerbetter to balance your bank account which is missing quite something20:03
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ZogGare you high?20:04
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jacekowskino, just not paid20:04
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* DocScrutinizer starts over headdesking. EE did a great job, still users complain and whine for double sized batteries, while Qt department goes polling(!!!) a switch @ 100Hz that can and will do IRQ and can change at mac 2.5Hz20:12
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* DocScrutinizer changes for wall, harder than desk, so maybe better20:13
jacekowskiwhich switch20:14
jacekowskiall the time?20:14
DocScrutinizersure, otherwise it's useless20:15
jacekowskior just when it's lit20:15
DocScrutinizererr wut?20:15
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DocScrutinizerprox always on VDD20:15
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jacekowskiproximity sensor is useless when display isn't lit20:16
jacekowskiso is it polling all the time20:16
jacekowskior when display is lit20:16
jacekowskior phone is doing something20:16
DocScrutinizerwho defines prox useless whithout display backlight?20:16
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fralsDocScrutinizer: im sure they are happy if you submit a merge request to fix it20:17
DocScrutinizerI'm sure I CBA, as this shows an elementary lack of understanding about how to implement decent power aware functions in *all* Qt(-Moob), so this would just be a start, and really... I'm unpaid, they are the "pros"20:18
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jacekowskii'm not paid too20:19
ShadowJKpolling proximity sensor constantly would be harmful for battery life :)20:19
DocScrutinizerMAAAN obviously20:20
jacekowskiShadowJK: nope, it IS harmful20:20
ShadowJKsame goes for accelerometer20:20
jacekowskiShadowJK: look at the link DocScrutinizer  posted20:20
DocScrutinizersame shit like in sensorfw of meego20:20
DocScrutinizerI just can't believe it20:20
* ShadowJK misses context of conversation again due to n900's small screensize ;D20:21
jacekowski19:12  * DocScrutinizer starts over headdesking. EE did a great job, still users complain and whine for double sized batteries, while Qt department goes polling(!!!) a switch @ 100Hz that can and will do IRQ and can change at mac 2.5Hz20:22
DocScrutinizer[2011-03-31 18:08:37] <MohammadAG> it takes 7-17% CPU time, that's why I don't use it20:22
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jacekowski19:14 < DocScrutinizer>
ShadowJKAnyone files bugreport...20:23
ShadowJKanyway, even if it didn't show up in top, it'd eat batterypower...20:23
ShadowJKIt's all about the wakeups :/20:23
* DocScrutinizer suggests
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ShadowJKBrowser is even more annoying to scroll anything in when it blinks white all the time20:27
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* DocScrutinizer ponders about SElinux to BLAME apps that use too many timer calls20:28
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DocScrutinizerlike in: any app may use max 5000 timer wakeups, then gets killed20:31
DocScrutinizermaybe per day20:31
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DocScrutinizeror make that 50,000, doesn't matter20:33
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DocScrutinizeror make the devel come to me personally and ask for using timers, while I wave the whip20:34
DocScrutinizerthe hardware is IRQ driven. If there *really* is any valid reason why the app can't go irq as well (i.e. callback), then this reason has to get fixed.20:35
Robot101this is why android uses wakelocks20:35
Robot101to force everything to sleep20:36
DocScrutinizeryeah, and this is why I hated android20:36
Robot101even if idle dalvik wakes up 60 times a second even when the phone is idle20:36
DocScrutinizerRobot101: you seen the rant above, about ?20:37
ShadowJKThere's that wrapper thing that forces stuff to sleep that someone wrote for SDL games :)20:37
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DocScrutinizerwaitaminute, let's see if I can tatoo a name of an ass to kick,  into my cortex20:38
DocScrutinizer** Copyright (C) 2010 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary(-ies).20:38
DocScrutinizermeh, cowards20:39
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DocScrutinizerclearly we need a maemo WTF of the week20:45
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you suggested I should provide a patch for Qt-mob. I have NFC *if* and *what* object they provide that's _not_ such a friggin n900filebasedsensor and maybe actually is using the above mentioned mechanisms of event driven programming meant to get used for IRQ based sensors in sysfs20:48
* ShadowJK wonders if inotify works on sysfs20:49
DocScrutinizerso any patch might mean a major redesign of large parts of Qt-mob20:49
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: (if it's actually 'inotify' and) if it's not, then the kernel *absolutely* needs a fix to make it work20:50
ShadowJKWell, that particular file looks fixable, since it actually calls a newReadingsAvailable thing of proximity state changes20:51
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I now fsodeviced (iirc, might be fsoeventsd or whatever) IS using that paradigm20:51
MohammadAGShadowJK, it doesn't20:52
ShadowJKBut it also would probably need something to know when stuff wants sensor readings or not20:52
DocScrutinizeryeah, this thing had to get called on kernel notifying a change in sysfs20:52
ShadowJKMohammadAG, know how if not through inotify?20:53
DocScrutinizerI'm rather sure it's not inotify, it's sth different that's used for sysfs20:53
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: why should it know about somebody wanting to know about sensor readings?20:54
ShadowJKSo that it can switch off sensors when their data isn't needed20:55
DocScrutinizerthat's a problem of how you activate sensors, and usually has to be done explicitly via writing some value to some controlling sysnode20:55
DocScrutinizerthough there are also designs that sense if the readout sysnode gets opened20:55
ShadowJK(someone bookmark that for  me)20:56
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ShadowJKsort of20:56
* ShadowJK should implement this for a ;p20:57
DocScrutinizerheh, there it is: kobject was one of the keywords20:58
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MohammadAGShadowJK, no idea, but I tried monitoring sysfs with ionotify and got nothing21:02
DocScrutinizerinotify is for 'normal' filesystems afaik. Can't work in sysfs21:03
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DocScrutinizerkevents is the buzzword21:04
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DocScrutinizeryou're registering for certain kevents by providing match-criteria21:07
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DocScrutinizerfd = Posix.socket( Linux.Socket.AF_NETLINK, Posix.SOCK_DGRAM, Linux.Netlink.NETLINK_KOBJECT_UEVENT );21:12
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DocScrutinizerthis is how FSO is dealing with change of state of a sysfs node, i.e a sensor/whatever causing an interrupt and thus changing content of /sys/*/foo/bar21:24
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DocScrutinizer(don't worry, it's vala, not you gotten drunk without noticing)21:25
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DocScrutinizeractually it seems you get all kevents from this netlink socket, and then you check if the parameters match the event you're interested in. Well that's not too bad as *somebody* has to do this matching anyway, and CPU is running at that moment, so it's not like your app would wake the CPU for nothing. No question it's another universe than POLLING sysfs nodes21:38
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DocScrutinizerOK enough of pointers from my side. I guess everybody really interested knows enough now to fix or at least file a ticket against QtMob's n900proximitysensor.cpp21:40
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DocScrutinizeror maybe against QtMob's n900filebasedsensor() implementation21:47
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ShadowJKthat lwn article suggests one could open() a sysfs node, and then do poll() on it?22:04
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E0xi am looking for some example22:07
E0xbut without look22:07
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E0xi am asking in kernelnewbies now22:07
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keriolol - sysfs rulez22:12
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o0-Dan-0oi just bought a used n900 the guy who sold it said that he left all hes stuff(cr*p) in the phone..22:19
o0-Dan-0ois this the way to go? ---> " + "22:19
MohammadAGinfobot, flashing22:19
infobotsomebody said flashing was
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o0-Dan-0oyeah thats the stuff22:21
o0-Dan-0othanks MohammadAG22:21
o0-Dan-0oso (flashing the) eMMC aka *VANILLA*22:21
MohammadAGflash both22:22
o0-Dan-0ois gonna make the phone as new?22:22
o0-Dan-0oboth ?22:22
jacekowskinever flash emmc without fiasco22:23
o0-Dan-0oFIASCO isnt included when flashing eMMC22:23
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o0-Dan-0ook thank you guys22:24
MohammadAGyou're welcome :)22:24
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DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: make sure you got no freaking device lock code set22:24
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o0-Dan-0ogonna read the page and do it ^^22:24
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MohammadAGif he does, he can clear it after flashing22:25
DocScrutinizeras this one is NOT reset to factory default 12345, even by flashing all22:25
o0-Dan-0odevice lock whata..22:25
o0-Dan-0odo they refer that in the page22:25
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E0xyou can crack it22:26
DocScrutinizeryou should check in settings / lockcode *before you flash*, as maybe afterwards you might not be able to access device anymore22:26
DocScrutinizeryeah, but only if access possible22:26
DocScrutinizerthat's why I suggested to check it NOW22:26
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DocScrutinizernot whine after flashing22:26
o0-Dan-0ook good point i'll check that22:26
E0xdon't could be a way for workaround in case somebody flash the device without know that22:27
E0xcode ?22:27
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E0xor is just get bricked22:27
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DocScrutinizerthere *are* ways around, but they are complicated and somewhat dangerous22:28
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> you should check in settings / lockcode *before you flash*, as maybe afterwards you might not be able to access device anymore22:29
E0xhardware mod things ?22:29
MohammadAGif you flash it, it doesn't prompt for a code22:29
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MohammadAGnah, you can just crack it after flashing22:30
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DocScrutinizerI never tested that, but would think it's rather idiotic22:30
MohammadAGor before, doesn't really matter22:30
o0-Dan-0oman the phone is slow as h*ll22:30
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DocScrutinizerthe shipped image should check if there's any non-standard lock code set and enabled, no?22:31
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DocScrutinizerIF they are stupid enough to disable lock code via e.g gconf setting then I'd expect this flag to be on "check" in default image22:32
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DocScrutinizerbut I'd rather think both the code and the fact it's enabled or disabled are in CAL22:33
DocScrutinizerthe code for sure is, so why shouldn't the flag?22:33
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o0-Dan-0oi'm setting language to english just to be sure we are talking about the same option22:34
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DocScrutinizersettings -> devicelock(?)22:35
DocScrutinizerthe padlock icon22:36
o0-Dan-0oautolock = disabled22:36
DocScrutinizeryeah, that'22:36
o0-Dan-0oare we good to go22:37
DocScrutinizernot the point22:37
DocScrutinizerclick on "change lock code"22:37
jacekowskilock is not stored in cal22:37
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jacekowskiit's just a code that's stored there22:37
jacekowskiand only code22:37
DocScrutinizertry to change it from 12345 to 1234522:37
DocScrutinizerif this doesn't work, you should follow instructions of
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> the shipped image should check if there's any non-standard lock code set and enabled, no?22:40
o0-Dan-0olock code chaged22:40
MohammadAGshould, right22:40
MohammadAGbut isn't22:40
o0-Dan-0oseems its cool right22:40
o0-Dan-0owas the code22:40
DocScrutinizeryeah, fine22:40
jacekowskii have a problem with HAM22:40
jacekowskii can't install anything because it keeps thinking that i don't have enough space22:41
o0-Dan-0onot having a sim card while doing all the stuff its ok right?!22:42
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, wanna facepalm? gconftool-2 -R /apps/osso/applet/osso-applet-devicelock22:42
DocScrutinizereven better22:42
o0-Dan-0obattery low though =/ have to charge it 1st22:43
jacekowskiso, anybody heard about my problem?22:43
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: usually that's caused by actually too low free space22:44
jacekowskinot in my case22:44
jacekowskirootfs                  227.9M    181.4M     42.3M  81% /22:45
DocScrutinizerdisable catalogs22:45
jacekowski/home/opt                 2.0G      1.7G    123.0M  94% /opt22:45
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jacekowskii started it on terminal22:46
MohammadAGdevicelock_total_failed = 1622:46
jacekowskiapt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home22:46
jacekowskiapt-worker: free space (/home/) = 12894617622:46
jacekowskiapt-worker: total space (/home/) = 211374899222:46
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jacekowski123M isn't enough22:46
MohammadAGwhy is this useful again?22:46
MohammadAGjacekowski, can it write to where it wants to write?22:46
MohammadAGis /home writable?22:46
DocScrutinizerdisable catalogs22:47
DocScrutinizeror free space in /home22:47
jacekowskihow much does it need?22:47
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DocScrutinizerdunno, I guess it depends on your catalogs22:47
jacekowski/dev/mmcblk0p2            2.0G      1.6G    238.2M  88% /home22:48
jacekowskiand it's happy now22:48
jacekowskiapt-worker is closed isn't it?22:49
MohammadAGit depends on debian/control of the deb you're install22:49
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: i very much doubt that opera needs more than 100M of free space i had22:49
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG, our Einstein :-D22:49
MohammadAGor something along those lines22:49
MohammadAGor HAM's being retarded, reminds me of a bug actually22:49
DocScrutinizerfor unpacking it might. At least according to MohammadAG the devels packaging it claimed it needs more22:50
MohammadAGthen it's being retarded :P22:50
MohammadAGjacekowski, no, it isn't22:50
jacekowskinew opera is cute22:51
MohammadAGI'm trying to get the "matrix" red pill thing back22:51
MohammadAGthe code's there, just disabled somewhere22:51
jacekowskiit's all nice and sexy and fast22:51
jacekowskinot like firefox based crap22:51
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, HAM can check debian/control before downloading22:52
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MohammadAGI like opera for one reason only22:53
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MohammadAGthey support N8x0 users and N900 users22:53
MohammadAGeven though both platforms are dead, at least officially22:53
jacekowskiand their on screen keyboard is working22:53
MohammadAGthat too22:54
Venemo_N900good evening Maemo :)22:54
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MohammadAGevening Venemo_N90022:55
MohammadAGsomething bothers me DocScrutinizer22:55
MohammadAGenable autolock and restart mce22:55
DocScrutinizeryou're bothered IF i'm really doing this? :-P no worries, I wait until you tell me what is going to happen22:57
MohammadAGit prompts for the code22:57
MohammadAGso it's actually mce requesting code at startup22:58
DocScrutinizermakes sense22:58
MohammadAGso inserting some stop mce into a place in init.d can override the dialog22:58
MohammadAGactually, flashing to recover a password might not be needed22:59
MohammadAGjust export eMMC over USB and edit gconf22:59
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DocScrutinizersure you don't flash to recover a password, that's rather nonsensical23:01
DocScrutinizerI'd use rescue-initrd23:01
MohammadAGwhat if you're locked out of the device23:01
MohammadAGwhat if mtd support is missing23:01
DocScrutinizerif sth is missing, add it23:02
MohammadAGwhere are gconf settings stored?23:03
MohammadAGthey're in $HOME/.gconf on ubuntu23:03
DocScrutinizerin a couple of friggin files23:03
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DocScrutinizerI'd ruthlessly flash CAL with an image of another unlocked device23:06
MohammadAGtwimgo stores my password as plaintext23:06
DocScrutinizerwhatever that is, so what?23:06
phapthis command to mute the sound doesn't work with me: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.maemo.Playback.Manager /org/maemo/Playback/Manager org.maemo.Playback.Manager.RequestMute boolean:True23:07
DocScrutinizeryou're one of the "protect me from my own passwords! ROT13 FTW!" fanboys? :-P23:07
Sazpaimon_where can I find some hildon toolbar icon examples23:07
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phapdbus-send: Expected "true" or "false" instead of "True" well of course I tried 'true' I get no error but still it does nothing23:08
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dan2ka question.. to get N900 flasher to work in Windows 7 64-bit (x64) is still needed to do
MohammadAGso does cutetube23:10
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no, it's just a bit risky if someone breaks into your device :P23:12
o0-Dan-0oi use win7 64bit is it still required to follow this? ->
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DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: to make it clear: don't you think who/whatever breaks your system authentication security will also know how foobar-acme is rot13-crypting the password and can as easily decode it as foobar-acme can?23:18
SpeedEvilPhone stealing people aregenerally not very bright.23:19
DocScrutinizer51so they for sure are too stupid to copy the file where the foobar-acme pw is stored23:19
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DocScrutinizer51duh wait, why copy it? why not just start foobare-acme?23:20
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DocScrutinizer51sorry, this for sure makes no sense at all23:22
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DocScrutinizer51it only would make a marginal sense if you use same pw for all your auth, some of them stored in files and some require you entering them realtime23:24
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o0-Dan-0o64-bit users may encounter problems23:28
o0-Dan-0o..or will23:28
o0-Dan-0oif they do will they "brick" the equipment23:29
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o0-Dan-0ojust want to be safe23:30
jigraphas anyone used the built in maemo application to access gmail? I have the SSL settings on and it seems to be failing23:31
DocScrutinizer51o0-Dan-0o: no chance to 'brick' anything23:32
DocScrutinizer51just make sure your battery is 100% charged23:34
o0-Dan-0o=) ok DocScrutinizer5123:35
DocScrutinizer51if flashing keeps failing, recharge while you do other things like googling23:35
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o0-Dan-0obut is it better to follow the workaround at the 1st try23:35
o0-Dan-0oor what23:35
o0-Dan-0owhat do you advice23:35
DocScrutinizer51a flat battery is the only way to 'brick' the thing23:36
DocScrutinizer51if you feel uncomfortable, go for the complicated way with battery insertion etc23:36
DocScrutinizer51the other 'simple' way is for experienced users23:37
BCMMhow does maemo handle .install files from the browser?23:37
BCMMi'm trying to install firefox 4, but clicking it in microb isn't launching HAM23:38
BCMMi've now downloaded the .install with wget, but i'm not sure what to do now23:38
BCMMhildon-application-manager --some-parameter file.install?23:38
DocScrutinizer51hehe, just click it again23:39
DocScrutinizer51in browser23:39
BCMMclicked quite a few times now23:39
BCMMbtw, navigating to the file:// location of the .install i fetched with wget does nothing; it clearly expects a correct mimetype23:39
DocScrutinizer51or that23:39
BCMMMohammadAG: find it in filemanager? ok23:39
MohammadAGit needs to have the correct mimetype on the server for microB to open HAM23:39
ShadowJKif you've got firefox or fennec installed from before you need to uninstall it23:40
BCMMShadowJK: ok23:40
BCMMfigured that might be the case, but i don't think that's the problem i have here since ham doesn't even start23:40
ProteousI installed firefox 4 via a button on the website23:40
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Proteouslast week23:41
Proteousit correctly opened up HAM23:41
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vi___sup broslice23:41
Proteousyo funkbrother23:41
BCMMdidn't think to check the downloads window23:41
jonaskoe1kerHi all.  On my n900, the rss feed "" doesn't work in the builtin RSS reader.  Can anyone else reproduce this behavior?23:42
BCMMthe download stalled at 0% somehow23:42
BCMMnaturally, clicking on it repeatedly didn't make it abandon the ongoing attempt to download it23:42
vi___does anyone know how exactly the mmc is unmounted when the backcover of the n900 is removed?23:42
BCMMi just don't know why it didn't time out...23:42
Proteousjonaskoe1ker: trying to get people to supsribe to your feed? ;)23:42
vi___becuse it sure doesnt unmount gracefully...23:42
jonaskoe1kerAlternate blogs work in the RSS reader, and foldvary works fine on liferea@debian-testing23:42
jonaskoe1kerProteous: no, it's Fred Foldvary's23:43
ProteousI was joking :)23:43
BCMMvi___: define gracefully?23:43
jonaskoe1kerProteous: :)23:43
jonaskoe1kerProteous: care to check whether you can reproduce?23:43
vi___a proper unmount that allows for all IO to cease23:43
Proteousjonaskoe1ker: I've never used the rss reader23:43
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vi___as oppose to an outright 'yank the card out'23:44
Proteousjonaskoe1ker: not that that is a huge hurdle, but I'm also at work23:44
jonaskoe1kerProteous: fair :)23:44
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vi___is it a HAL script?23:44
vi___cos i cant find it23:44
vi___and i am not sure how to work it out23:45
DocScrutinizervi___: how should it umount more gracefully than just umount?23:46
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vi___i want to have swap on sd AND want it to unmount nicely if I take the back off.  i.e. when back comes off, swapoff is run23:47
vi___so the machine doesnt just spazz out as a huge chunk of swap suddenly disappears23:48
SpeedEvilSwapoff may take over a minute23:48
vi___ya follow?23:49
SpeedEvilSure - byt swapoff may take over a minute.23:49
vi___thats fine by me23:49
SpeedEvilYou'd need a 'OK to unount now' signal23:49
SpeedEvilI mean - OK to pull the card23:50
DocScrutinizerit's no timplemented this way23:50
vi___thats all fine23:50
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vi___i just dont know how to 'hook' into the process23:50
DocScrutinizeruSD VDD powerdown is directly in kernel driver afaik23:50
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DocScrutinizerso that driver is first thing you need to "hook into"23:51
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DocScrutinizeranyway you want to look at ke_rcv23:52
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vi___cheers bro!23:52
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DocScrutinizermaybe you get things accomplished there23:52
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BCMMthis "Quick zoom" in firefox 4 for mobiles; is it the same as the double-tap zoom in microb?23:56
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