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| DocScrutinizer | ßo/ Turkey plans nuke plants, built by Russians and by Tepco(!) [damn, I thought Tepco bought theirs at GE] - of course at shore and in the most earthquake prone areas they could possibly find. Well, when Chernobyl clowd conaminated large areas in Turkey, their minister stated (honestly): "radioactive tea tastes better!". I called Tepco at Fucku "3 stooges" - I seriously miss the right terms for Turkey | 00:15 |
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| HtheB | MohammadAG: | 00:17 |
| HtheB | Sup :) | 00:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | from a macro-darwinistic POV I think it's OK. May the radioactivity sterilize them all. Those who survive are civilizations that were smart enough to kick or even kill their leaders when those tried to sell nuke plants to their people | 00:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kudos to Austria | 00:20 |
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| mva | hey! | 00:26 |
| mva | cansomebody help me with my problem? ;) | 00:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ask | 00:27 |
| infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. | 00:27 |
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| mva | DocScrutinizer: i was ask it about hour ago ;) | 00:28 |
| mva | »» i've a problem: when i runsome pygtk apps under user some of them has black flat buttons and both black background and foreground color in edit boxes. But when i do "su -" to get root clear environment — all of them working fine (renders all elements in right way). | 00:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems some of your relevant files were installed with wrong permissions | 00:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | check for files that miss read perms for group/other | 00:30 |
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| mva | is it any way to check which of them? and, btw, i don't think, that problem is in permissions: when i ran them under sudo — it's the same problem. And problem goes away only with clear root env (after "su -") | 00:32 |
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| mva | and, btw, where i should check perms? in /home/user? | 00:32 |
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| HtheB | MohammadAG? | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if the problem vanishes only on proper root / su -, but not on sudo ginroot / su, then it evidently depends on environment of root, which is ~ and $PATH and envs | 00:35 |
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| BCMM | mva: have you got a screwed-up gtkrc? | 00:37 |
| BCMM | (or $GTK2_RC_FILES) | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so, as I still suspect some files are the problem, you should check what's in ~root/* and try set $path of user to that of root temporarily to check | 00:37 |
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| mva | BCMM: uhm... I don't touch it, but as i see, it is no such GTK2_RC_FILES variable under user (and it IS under root). But, bad thing: if i set it under user to the same value, as it is under root — it is no effect :( | 00:49 |
| BCMM | is it a gtk or qt application? | 00:49 |
| mva | pygtk (some C gtk apps working fine) | 00:50 |
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| mva | (xchat, for example) | 00:51 |
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| mva | btw, yep, long time ago, it was the same problem with qt apps (sync evolution, for example), but it was fixed by maintainers. | 00:53 |
| mva | and I don't know how to fix this thing with gtk ;) | 00:54 |
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| mva | btw, DocScrutinizer51, if i set HOME=/root under user — it is still broken looking in this apps, and even if i set HOME=/home/user under root with "su -" — it is still good. So, i doubt, if it is files fault. But, in other hand, i try to reexport root env under user, and it is no effect too :( | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm that's strange | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | you said sudo gainroot doesn't fix. So do sudo gainroot, then bit by bit set env to match that of a proper root env | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | first change $HOME to /root, cd | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then set $PATH to that of root env | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | check app after each change | 01:11 |
| Sazpaimon__ | i need to stop chewing on my stylus | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | continue with env $vars that are related to gtk (dunno exactly what these are, I think there are some, for theme, font, etc) | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | mva: I think BCMM got sth there. You should unset that $GTK2_RC_FILES var under root and see if things break, rather than set it under user and hope it will fix things | 01:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | odds are there's more than one point of failure (e.g. env var not set, and the files pointed at in that var are not readable for user) | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you got a really daunting task to fix the user environment. Better see which of the differences between user and root make root fail when setting them to the state found in user | 01:18 |
| mva | huh... it break in oter way: this apps looks ugly (default gtk light gray interface with BIG square buttons) :) | 01:19 |
| mva | *other | 01:19 |
| mva | and, btw, under user too ;) | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should consider creating a proper backup, then reflash&restore | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or, another approach, you could lsof your app under root and under user, and compare which files are open for root but missing/different_path for user | 01:22 |
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| mva | btw, can somebody paste /etc/hildon/theme/gtk-2.0/gtkrc? | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 01:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm sorry, 129kB | 01:26 |
| mva | can you upload it to ompldr.org? :) | 01:26 |
| BCMM | there really needs to be a sharing plugin for that... | 01:27 |
| BCMM | i wonder how they work | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mva: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/gtkrc | gtkrc.cache | 01:30 |
| mva | thx | 01:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | finished? | 01:31 |
| mva | yep, thx | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 01:32 |
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| mva | huh... strange thing... if i delete gtkrc from there — it is identical default gtk's BIG-square gray interface both under root and user. but even with your gtkrc under user i see broken black flat interface ;) (and under root i see it normally). very-very-very strange... | 01:39 |
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| Sazpaimon__ | okay this doesnt make sense | 01:45 |
| Sazpaimon__ | the same program builds find on an FREEMANTLE_ARMEL target, but FREEMANTLE_X86 errors out | 01:45 |
| Sazpaimon__ | error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'HildonProgram' | 01:45 |
| Sazpaimon__ | I | 01:45 |
| Sazpaimon__ | I'm including hildon/hildon-program.h, so i dont know why this isn't working | 01:46 |
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| Pillum | hello | 02:08 |
| zaleb | Hay Pillum leuk dat je wat zegt | 02:08 |
| Pillum | lol wat? | 02:09 |
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| Pillum | anyone here? | 02:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 02:22 |
| infobot | :), DocScrutinizer | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~+uptime | 02:22 |
| infobot | - Uptime for ibot - | 02:22 |
| infobot | Now: 32m 17s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux | 02:22 |
| infobot | 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010 | 02:22 |
| infobot | 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009 | 02:22 |
| infobot | 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug 4 17:38:59 2009 | 02:22 |
| chem|st | mmh how may I invert/mirror my xserver-display? | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | xrandr? | 02:23 |
| chem|st | is there xrandr? | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, thought so | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm no | 02:24 |
| chem|st | at least there is libxrandr2 | 02:24 |
| chem|st | just remembered having a nice but mirror image when putting the n900 right in front of my speedmeter in car (at night) | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Put the n900 facing down. | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | And it'll be the right way round. | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Err. | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | nvm | 02:28 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: hehe | 02:28 |
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| chem|st | the image is mirrored in the plastic shield of the meters... | 02:28 |
| BCMM | chem|st: there is xrandr, the protocol, but there is not /usr/bin/xrandr | 02:29 |
| BCMM | sorry, i mean there is an RandR extension | 02:29 |
| chem|st | also for having it attached to a projector with rearprojection this feature would be nice | 02:29 |
| BCMM | xrandr would work if you installed it; it works for me when i ssh -x to a machine that has it | 02:30 |
| chem|st | BCMM: yeah now we need programs to make use of it | 02:30 |
| chem|st | like mappero or columbus | 02:31 |
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| chem|st | and TVout | 02:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | apt-cache search TVout... | 02:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ...or xrandr | 02:46 |
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| chx | hm. does skype video chat work on n800 or n810? | 05:10 |
| Robot101 | chx: no, they had a stand-alone skype client with no video | 05:10 |
| Robot101 | (they have no H264 encoder) | 05:10 |
| chx | Any other way to do video calls? | 05:10 |
| Robot101 | yes, the built-in XMPP client has jingle video call support | 05:11 |
| Robot101 | however you can only call to people with H263 | 05:11 |
| Robot101 | which is... rare - google video call uses H264 for example | 05:11 |
| chx | I have Linux. | 05:11 |
| chx | That means I should have every possible program in existence, lol | 05:11 |
| Robot101 | it should work with Empathy on the desktop provided you install gstreamer-ffmpeg plugins with h263 enabled | 05:12 |
| Robot101 | it might have bitrotted though, since for a couple of years everyone will have been testing with H264 | 05:12 |
| chx | Hm | 05:12 |
| chx | Then maybe two N810 tablets is the best? | 05:12 |
| Robot101 | the breakage will be on the Empathy end though, we made it nice and reliable in the N800 and N810 OSes | 05:13 |
| Robot101 | that should definitely work, yes | 05:13 |
| Robot101 | but if Empathy is broken then you should be able to ask on #telepathy or #farsight for help fixing it | 05:13 |
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| chx | I want to make it easier for my brother to put my 2yrs old nephew on a video call. I am quite a bit far but I truly adore the little guy. Having a webcam is not the best. I was thinking on a tablet that we could hand over to the lil' one. | 05:14 |
| Robot101 | :D | 05:14 |
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| chx | I was even thinking, you know, maybe a cheap Android tablet, could even play games, but it seems the price for these things are not yet in the range where you'd hand it to a 2yr old. | 05:15 |
| Robot101 | so I'll warn you, the quality on the N810 video call isn't amazing | 05:15 |
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| Robot101 | there's quite a low resolution because of CPU limitation | 05:15 |
| Robot101 | the video accelerator in the OMAP2 didn't have any linux drivers | 05:15 |
| Robot101 | so it's doing encoding and decoding on software :( | 05:16 |
| chx | or, i have not seen an Android tablet made by Panasonic or Lenovo -- if there'd be I would buy in a heartbeat if they'd be similar to their laptops, a 2yr old does not have the strenght to break either | 05:16 |
| chx | i dunno, your run-of-the-mill webcam isnt terribly high res either | 05:16 |
| Robot101 | lenovo build quality is going very bad in my experience, my T410s has a screen defect after 1 month | 05:16 |
| Robot101 | and my last X200s screen died too | 05:16 |
| chx | really? i have a t400s that survied everything and my bro is using T series since the dawn of time. | 05:17 |
| chx | and I just bought a t420 :) | 05:17 |
| Robot101 | so, newer ones suck more...? :/ | 05:17 |
| Robot101 | I have a 2 inch wide vertical stripe of random colours which appeared about a third of the way along my screen | 05:17 |
| Robot101 | it's... really annoying | 05:18 |
| chx | oh THAT one! | 05:18 |
| chx | http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/t410s-vertical-band-in-my-LCD/td-p/245040 is this your problem? | 05:18 |
| Robot101 | it used to come and go, pinching the screen at the bottom used to fix it | 05:18 |
| Robot101 | but now its here to syau | 05:18 |
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| Robot101 | *stay | 05:18 |
| chx | http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-76367 | 05:19 |
| chx | Call Lenovo, they know about it | 05:19 |
| Robot101 | and yeah it's that problem | 05:20 |
| chx | it's so well known they have a page about it. | 05:20 |
| Robot101 | I've been travelling the past 2 weeks so never had any time I wanted to send off my computer or wait on-site for a repair | 05:20 |
| Robot101 | I tried to find a place in SF who would do a walk-in warranty repair as I know LCD replacement is easy | 05:21 |
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| Robot101 | but, well, their list of places in SF was useless - one of them was gone and a the number rang through to a recruitment agency, the other didn't do lenovo repairs, and the third was just a dead number | 05:21 |
| Robot101 | I gave up | 05:21 |
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| chx | somewhat sad | 05:26 |
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| chx | still, these kinds of problems alas reach every manufacturer | 05:26 |
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| chx | to me this looks like a soldering defect where the ribbon cable reaches the lcd but i might be totally wrong -- it might be a soldering diefect elsewhere :) | 05:26 |
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| ZogG | i <3 maemo every day more and more | 07:28 |
| ZogG | i ♥* maemo every day more and more | 07:28 |
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| * pupnik is frustrated by segfault on n900 which doesn't appear on x86 | 07:35 | |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/samsung_imitating_sony/ <-- haha | 08:45 |
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| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Hercules-eCAF-Slim-HD-and-EX-HD/ <-- cute | 08:55 |
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| pupnik | mornin ruskie | 09:02 |
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| pupnik | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/29/google_android_and_the_linux_headers/ hmm | 09:05 |
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| keithzg | One one hand, I think (especially since the original story came from a guy with previous ties to Microsoft) the whole thing is just FUD. | 09:21 |
| keithzg | On the other hand, if Google gets bit in an ironic twist outcome of their attempt to "keep GPL out of user space" it kindof serves them right. | 09:22 |
| keithzg | And then on the third hand, it had been a few years since some real, substantial FUD was flying around, it's nicely nostalgic :) | 09:22 |
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| krayon | Why didn't anyone ask him if it was public record etc etc, WHY did he remove it a week before? | 09:24 |
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| keithzg | Certainly doesn't give the impression of someone with nothing to hide, eh? But if they invalidate his claims by nailing him on that question, then there's no news story left. | 09:25 |
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| krayon | The sad part is, if he HADN'T they wouldn't listen at all, just saying "oh well, OBVIOUSLY he's just saying it for MS" | 09:31 |
| krayon | Him being involved with them doesn't mean he's not right, but yeah, trying to hide it (and not getting away with it) looks worse. | 09:32 |
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| pupnik | yep yep | 09:51 |
| * pupnik agrees with keithzg and krayon | 09:51 | |
| pupnik | well i have a workaround for this game and the tiny (!) n900 screen | 09:52 |
| pupnik | wee | 09:52 |
| ds3 | pupnik: got a work around for chording keys on the n900? | 09:52 |
| pupnik | what's the problem ds3 ? | 09:52 |
| krayon | pupnik: What game? | 09:52 |
| pupnik | daimonin | 09:52 |
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| ds3 | pupnik: stella... I can't chord keys so it makes it a bit tricky to play some games (i.e. can't fire and move) | 09:53 |
| pupnik | ds3: you mean you cannot fire and move at the same time? | 09:54 |
| pupnik | i thought n900 supported multiple keypresses | 09:54 |
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| krayon | I've not had any issues related to multi-key press | 09:56 |
| krayon | I at least press 2/3 at a time using my Game Gripper | 09:57 |
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| krayon | pupnik: Thanks, gonna try this out :) | 09:59 |
| krayon | Now, off 'ome... | 09:59 |
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| ds3 | pupnik: yep | 10:00 |
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| ds3 | more specifically, I can't jump and move. makes it hard to play pitfall :D | 10:00 |
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| pupnik | ds3: who is the stella porter? | 10:02 |
| ds3 | pupnik: you | 10:03 |
| pupnik | you're using that old thing :/ | 10:03 |
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| ds3 | at least you gave me the link to the deb; it was for the N8xx and I had to force install it | 10:03 |
| ds3 | is there a newer/better one? | 10:03 |
| pupnik | i just sort of assumed there would be | 10:03 |
| ds3 | heh... I think I pestered you about it enough that you gave me the link to that old one | 10:04 |
| pupnik | i am sorry, that does suck | 10:04 |
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| pupnik | maybe there's a quick fix ds3 | 10:05 |
| ds3 | =) | 10:05 |
| ds3 | it really does burn power though | 10:06 |
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| pupnik | ds3: perhaps there's a more optimized emulator available? | 10:22 |
| ds3 | pupnik: not for the 2600 hardware | 10:23 |
| pupnik | ds3: i thought you could emulate that with a lego set by now | 10:23 |
| ds3 | I do wonder if a USB keyboard/mouse would do better... but that takes some setup | 10:23 |
| ds3 | it isn't that primative of a chip!! | 10:24 |
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| ds3 | that thing has to sync video on a very primative way | 10:25 |
| pupnik | ahh yes scanline | 10:27 |
| crashanddie | "in" and "primitive" | 10:28 |
| pupnik | they didn't have enough memory for a full bitmap | 10:28 |
| pupnik | 4197 tiles converted | 10:29 |
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| arcol | do somebody know how could I disable editing the desktop (on maemo) by longpressing the display | 10:33 |
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| phap | hello | 10:33 |
| zaleb | Hay phap leuk dat je wat zegt | 10:33 |
| arcol | it just misalign very often my desktop while the phone is in the pocket | 10:33 |
| phap | zaleb, I don't understand sorry | 10:33 |
| dubfunked | he thinks you're dutch | 10:37 |
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| crashanddie | zaleb, english please | 10:57 |
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| ds3 | > | 10:59 |
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| crashanddie | woops | 11:02 |
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| phap | well anyway | 11:14 |
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| phap | I think I'm dreaming but is there anybody who knows how to display only the album art which is currently playing with media player on the desktop with a simple command? | 11:15 |
| phap | or relative simple? | 11:15 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: did you mean that maemo-tvout-control? | 11:22 |
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| keithzg | phap: the closed source nature of the default media player makes such things far harder than they should be :( | 11:39 |
| lcuk | phap, keithzg :) there is an open source media player in production | 11:40 |
| lcuk | a rewrite of the UI using Qt and talking to the MAFW backend (just like the original one) :) | 11:41 |
| keithzg | nice; yet another reason I gotta get myself a backup N900 just in case, haha, it just keeps getting better. | 11:41 |
| phap | I hope it's coming soon then | 11:42 |
| phap | I tried to compile the media player widget but could'nt | 11:43 |
| phap | *from source | 11:43 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, could you perhaps guide these restless souls towards the TMO thread? | 11:43 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk? Sorry? | 11:46 |
| crashanddie | what am I, the doorman? | 11:46 |
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| chem|st | phap: the mediaplayer gets a cssu relplacement some time | 11:47 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: you look more like a chef, may i have breakfast then? | 11:48 |
| chem|st | ^^ | 11:48 |
| phap | I hope it'll be customizable | 11:48 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, I mistakenly thought you would know which thread it was on since you were hacking around with it yourself :P | 11:49 |
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| * crashanddie stuffs chem|st's face full with eggs | 11:49 | |
| crashanddie | HAHA! Can't talk! | 11:49 |
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| chem|st | I guess it will be open source | 11:49 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I've been on TMO once in the last year or so :P | 11:49 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/31/microsoft_google_monopoly/ <-- haha | 12:12 |
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| cmantito | out of curiosity, has anyone had any luck with MfE + Exch 2010? | 13:04 |
| timeless_w7ip | cmantito: i think nokia is using it | 13:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | which would give a fairly sizable userbase | 13:07 |
| cmantito | hmm | 13:08 |
| cmantito | I had it working with Exch 07, but when I try to use it with Exch 2010 it just will not connect, it's quite strange. | 13:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | you'd have to tell me how to figure out if i'm using 2010 :) | 13:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | i know we got a visual refresh for OWA | 13:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | which basically made OWA work in Firefox and other non IE browsers | 13:09 |
| cmantito | is it yellowish now? :P | 13:10 |
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| timeless_w7ip | yeah | 13:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | it used to be blue | 13:11 |
| cmantito | that's 2010 then | 13:11 |
| * timeless_w7ip is rather amused | 13:12 | |
| timeless_w7ip | such a simple, convenient, efficient and effective version test | 13:12 |
| cmantito | haha | 13:12 |
| cmantito | yeah | 13:12 |
| * timeless_w7ip scores +1 to the ms ui team | 13:12 | |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: no greetings? | 13:13 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh, on the subject of UI/UX | 13:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | cmantito: ... what do you do outside of #maemo? | 13:13 |
| * timeless_w7ip is looking for someone to bumble through a web site | 13:14 | |
| timeless_w7ip | define: to bumble | 13:14 |
| Jade | hi | 13:14 |
| cmantito | timeless_w7ip, I do a lot of things, could you be more specific? :) | 13:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | ... to wander aimlessly through, accidentally tripping on things, stumbling over things, bumping into things, and crying "ouch" | 13:14 |
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| timeless_w7ip | cmantito: mxr.maemo.org / mxr.meego.com are web sites | 13:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | but they until this morning had a link on their main page which led to a page which always generated errors | 13:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | the code to lead to that path was probably 5-10 years old | 13:15 |
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| timeless_w7ip | but people didn't effectively communicate this to me, so i didn't realize what was going wrong / fix it :( | 13:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you could look at the site and suggest ways to improve it, that'd be wonderful :) | 13:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm thinking that perhaps the content area on the right should be moved into an "about.html" page leaving only the box on the left | 13:17 |
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| cmantito | timeless_w7ip, ok when I get some time I'll take a look | 13:26 |
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| timeless_w7ip | thanks | 13:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: prepare for a lot of 'ouch' and crying. mxr always exposed ... issues... to me | 14:20 |
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| lcuk | ooh DocScrutinizer really, like what? | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | mostly search not working like expected | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | mece, yes you are. | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that changed several times during last maybe 6 months, so I'm not sure what's status now | 14:24 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, curious, whenever I have had to dig around found mxr to be closest to old offline tool I used to use in Windows days | 14:25 |
| lcuk | but anything has potential glitches | 14:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as has my knowledge about how to use this tool properly, e.g. I'm not sure if it's mxr's fault or mine, when I miss the "defined at:" proper reference and only several 'referenced at:" hits are displayed | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | might easily be my poor understanding of complex c code and how it works | 14:36 |
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| Termana | good morning | 14:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | good moaning | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2011-03-31 01:31:12] <chem|st> and TVout | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: no idea what *I* meant | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-03-31 04:10:38] <chx> Any other way to do video calls? --- SIP can do video calls, at least it offers and tries to establish - never had a chance to test it due to missing peer/account with same properties | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chx^zzz: (tough devices) panasonic toughbook. The 'old' ones (c-27 e.g.) are cheapish on ebay. You can't destroy them by running over them with a van | 15:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | built to military standards (and that's probably where majority of used ones comes from) | 15:14 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: was about mirroring Xdisplay | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: no idea. Heard xrandr can do it | 15:21 |
| chem|st | but we only have xserver xtensions but no program makeing use of it | 15:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I searched for jebba's repository of 34711 debian pkkgs compiled under SB/fremantle, but couldn't find it anymore | 15:23 |
| Macer | well | 15:23 |
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| Macer | g2 doesnt stall out on the tmob connection like the n900 does | 15:23 |
| chem|st | that was what I was looking for too... | 15:24 |
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| Macer | it seems smooth. weird | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | a pity | 15:24 |
| Macer | when my n900 switches between 2 3 and 3.5G it stalls out and i usually lose my ssh session | 15:24 |
| Macer | wonder how meego is doing | 15:25 |
| chem|st | Macer: 2 to 3 it should be normal | 15:25 |
| chem|st | 3 to 3.5 depends | 15:25 |
| Macer | chem|st: i know ;) | 15:25 |
| Macer | well. it was driving me nuts | 15:26 |
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| Macer | the n900 was dated anyways | 15:26 |
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| chem|st | I stay 2g if I want a steady link | 15:26 |
| Macer | and with meego taking forever and nokia abandonment seems worthless now | 15:26 |
| chem|st | I go 3.x for fast downloads if needed | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah Macer, I heard there's no exact specs how 2G<->3G handover is to be handled. It's kinda of defacto standard where each side (modem manufs, carriers) tries his best, and if sth fails then each side points fingers on the other | 15:26 |
| Macer | chem|st: well. you shouldnt have to do that | 15:26 |
| chem|st | Macer: that highly depends on your operator's network | 15:27 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: heh. well. it seems to work in the same area just fine on the g2 | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite possible | 15:27 |
| Macer | dropping between 2 3 and 4G | 15:27 |
| chem|st | some operators deactivate the AP handover | 15:27 |
| Macer | without a hiccup | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe the implementation in g2 and t-mo play nice together | 15:28 |
| Macer | possibly | 15:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | errr what? 4G? | 15:28 |
| Macer | well.... H | 15:28 |
| Macer | if you want to call that 4G | 15:28 |
| chem|st | that is not 4g | 15:28 |
| Macer | no? | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a very clear spec about what 2G 2.5, 3G and 3.5 means | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | 4G is LTS | 15:29 |
| Macer | rly? so why do they market it as 4G" | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | which afaik only in sweden is used yet in small areas, for testing | 15:29 |
| Macer | i thought H was hpda | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | hpda not existent. There's HS[U|D]PA | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | which all is called 3.5G | 15:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to be specific this is UMTS HSPA | 15:31 |
| chem|st | Macer: actualy it is 3g as there is no official 3.5g afair | 15:31 |
| Macer | and hspa+? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | GSM is 2G, 2G+EDGE=2.5G. UMTS=3G, 3G+HSxPA=3.5G | 15:32 |
| Macer | heh | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no such thing like HSPA+ | 15:32 |
| Macer | well. seems rather false advertising | 15:32 |
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| Macer | clever marketing? | 15:33 |
| chem|st | Macer: there is a false advertising of 3.9G as 4G as it will be compatible to "real" 4G but is actualy 3G | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3.9G? o.O | 15:34 |
| chem|st | amof they do not even meet ITU specs | 15:35 |
| Macer | haha | 15:35 |
| Macer | 3.9! | 15:35 |
| chem|st | "Confusion has been caused by some mobile carriers who have launched products advertised as 4G but which are actually current technologies, commonly referred to as '3.9G', which do not follow the ITU-R defined principles for 4G standards." | 15:36 |
| chem|st | reads wikipedia | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umts | 15:36 |
| chem|st | "Current LTE and WiMAX implementations are considered pre-4G" | 15:37 |
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| chem|st | wimax2 and LTEadvanced are considered to become 4G | 15:37 |
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| Macer | 100mb/s huh? | 15:38 |
| Macer | hah | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Term_Evolution | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | E-UTRAN | 15:40 |
| Macer | oh | 15:40 |
| Macer | itu says they can be considered 4g | 15:40 |
| Macer | lame | 15:40 |
| Macer | gave in to $ huh? | 15:40 |
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| Macer | because they are based on the new tech the carrier may use to reach the standard | 15:41 |
| Macer | what a racket haha | 15:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, I've been wron LTE!=4G | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pff there's even HSPA+ | 15:46 |
| lcuk | tincan string is the new sneakernet | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | took a while to parse | 15:50 |
| * DocScrutinizer prefers lazors | 15:51 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | not exactly sneaker, but close, way extended operation range, and cool ;-) | 15:51 |
| lcuk | WARNING: DO NOT LOOK INTO LASER COMMUNICATIONS DEVICE WITH REMAINING EYE | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | .-P | 15:52 |
| lcuk | haha | 15:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a nice widened beam collimated IR-laser can build a directed communications channel several tens of km distance | 15:55 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, but you need line of sight. | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | modulo rain/fog doesn't really care | 15:56 |
| lcuk | or a laser powerful enough to create its own tunnel | 15:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer wants to see lcuk pulling his strin thru a hole in next building | 15:56 | |
| lcuk | RFC 103291 telephony using tincans and quantum strings. | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | YAY | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 15:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if the flu creates the need for coffee, or the coffee makes him feel like flu | 15:59 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (laser strong enough) I suggest a less instantly dangerous path: moon/cloud/satellite scatter, sth well known at amateur radio (well, maybe not for the clouds there) | 16:09 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, shining a sufficiently bright laser into the sky can only lead to one thing: | 16:10 |
| lcuk | batman appearing. | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorscatter | 16:11 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders WSJT over 14kHz accoustic, to replace lcuk 's string. Could probably get implemented on every standard smartphone, esp N900. Possible range: up to maybe 1000m | 16:19 | |
| jaska | http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135263645897.gif | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jaska: ROTFL | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jaska: absolutely to the point :-) Best one since long | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: see? It's not batman | 16:22 |
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| lcuk | *facepalm* | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | look more like rabBITman | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | *gasp* | 16:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer can't stop cackling | 16:25 | |
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| jigrap | is it ok to put the SDK repo in my n900 natively? | 16:30 |
| crashanddie | No | 16:31 |
| jigrap | I'd like to install some applications such as screen and strace | 16:31 |
| jigrap | oh ok | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | well | 16:31 |
| jigrap | so what's the right way to do it? | 16:31 |
| jigrap | I have scratchbox setup | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | you can add it to install a few apps | 16:31 |
| jigrap | is it ok if I copy the .deb files from my scratchbox to my n900 | 16:31 |
| jigrap | ? | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | but don't keep it activated, and don't run stupid things like apt-get upgrade | 16:32 |
| jigrap | just need a few apps yea | 16:32 |
| jigrap | yea | 16:32 |
| jigrap | I'll just activate it for a few things | 16:32 |
| jigrap | and then comment it out | 16:32 |
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| jigrap | I've had an issue where libglade is crashing when I try to load a glade file from pygtk and I wanted to debug it | 16:33 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, lcuk: it is batman! http://imagebin.org/145883 | 16:39 |
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| ZogG | hey guys | 16:49 |
| ZogG | sup sup | 16:49 |
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| jigrap | which debian version is the latest maemo based on? I want to find the right source package for python-glade2? | 16:54 |
| jigrap | for scratchbox I meant | 16:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: use your noisebox (aka PC speaker) instead of a string! -> http://wsprnet.org/drupal/node/2646 | 17:05 |
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| n900-stuff | hey all | 17:36 |
| n900-stuff | \o/ | 17:36 |
| n900-stuff | i have a lil question about scratchbox | 17:36 |
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| n900-stuff | using scratchbox vm, I have built the hildon-desktop in the arm target, and it has produced the deb file for the hildon desktop. Now i want to install this file so that the emulator shows me the effects of my changes, the one that we run inside the Xephyr | 17:40 |
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| n900-stuff | umm from the "[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/src2] > " I type the "dpkg -i hildon-desktop_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb", but it says i'm not root | 17:40 |
| E0x | whoami what say ? | 17:41 |
| n900-stuff | and if i type "sudo dpkg -i hildon-desktop_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb" its says sudo: must be setuid root | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | fakeroot dpkg -i... | 17:41 |
| n900-stuff | ok wait MohammadAG lemme try | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | why are you installing it anyway | 17:41 |
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| MohammadAG | it's not like you can bring up the UX in ARMEL anyway | 17:42 |
| n900-stuff | oh | 17:42 |
| n900-stuff | so how do i test my changes? | 17:42 |
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| n900-stuff | deploy it on the device? | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | that would be a start | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | or compile for X86 and run it there | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | but I test it on device | 17:43 |
| n900-stuff | when we compile for x86, the xephyr emulator will be able to run it ? | 17:43 |
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| chem|st | yes | 17:43 |
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| chem|st | target for scratchbox is x86 target for n900 is armel | 17:44 |
| n900-stuff | wait | 17:44 |
| chem|st | if you wnat to install to device armel if you want to install to "xephyr"(scratchbox) it is 86 | 17:45 |
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| n900-stuff | so if i'm here "[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > " it means i'm building for x86. Now when the deb file is built, On the same prompt (environment) I can do an install, then when I run xephyr, its going to have my changes there? | 17:45 |
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| MohammadAG | yes | 17:46 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: have you got any clue how to mirror Xdisplay on n900? the xrandr extension are there but no xrandr | 17:46 |
| n900-stuff | ok | 17:46 |
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| MohammadAG | um, you can install xrandr on the N900 afaik | 17:46 |
| MohammadAG | not sure if it's in the repos, but I had it once | 17:47 |
| chem|st | from debian/arm? | 17:47 |
| MohammadAG | nah, I never install stuff that way | 17:47 |
| MohammadAG | get the source and compile it | 17:47 |
| n900-stuff | And what about debugging MohammadAG? I mean, right now I'm just opening files in VI, make a lil change, build it, and then going to deploy and see changes, but this way the debugging is going to be pretty hard. Is stepping into the source on certain events supported? | 17:47 |
| MohammadAG | not sure, never debugged it, but I'm guessing gdb? | 17:48 |
| n900-stuff | and how do I do that? | 17:48 |
| * GAN900 wishes for hardware. | 17:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA >>Although I was not able to make wspr running on Linux using pulseaudio,... | 17:48 |
| n900-stuff | hmmm | 17:48 |
| MohammadAG | GAN900, +1 | 17:48 |
| * MohammadAG wants Maemo 5 on new HW | 17:48 | |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: +1 | 17:49 |
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| chem|st | don't know why nokia doesn't just do it... | 17:49 |
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| E0x | maemo 5 complete open | 17:50 |
| n900-stuff | so MohammadAG, when you are changing the hildon source and adding features, you (and other cssu guys i suppose) just change source on some text editor, then build and run (and repeat), no stepping in the source code? | 17:51 |
| MohammadAG | pretty much, yeah | 17:51 |
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| n900-stuff | amazing | 17:51 |
| n900-stuff | hehe | 17:51 |
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| visz | that's what we in finland call 'stabbing the duck' | 17:52 |
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| chem|st | no replace core and ram with something newer add a compass and ship it... no major hardware change would mean no major coding effort for drivers and stuff | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | printf() pretty much still the most popular debugging method | 17:53 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: +1 | 17:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | chem|st: maybe bump the VGA cam quality a tiny fraction. | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I for one prefer gdb whenever possible | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | add HDMI and a compass | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | HDMI is a major change. | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | There are many almost pin compatible changes that can be done 'easily' | 17:54 |
| chem|st | hdmi and 12mp cam? | 17:54 |
| chem|st | but thats it... not much of a change | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Different cam, for example. | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | 15MP, 12MP is meh | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Or keyboard layout. | 17:55 |
| chem|st | n8 uses the same socket... | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I want a decent 5MP | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | The existing one is around 2.5 | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, tried the iPhone's? | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | (just wondering) | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: no. | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: You mean to compare the quality with the n00? | 17:55 |
| chem|st | 10mp for but with a much better chip suits me | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, yeah | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | nope, then. | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: I don't ownany apple proucts anymore. | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | I eated them. | 17:56 |
| E0x | i will happen with the same hardware but just vsync and better software for camera ( one that can process image better ) | 17:56 |
| E0x | happy* | 17:56 |
| MohammadAG | E0x, check out nicolai's rewrite | 17:57 |
| chem|st | so upgrade of IR from cir to irda is one wire added as the chips already supporting it, it is just not connected | 17:57 |
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| MohammadAG | it'll be in the next CSSU | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | more ROM/RAM would be 90% of it. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | For me. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Err - more RAM, even. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | And the faster processor grade. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | It's still only 720, but 720/512'd be a nice bump. | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | kick 15mp cam with a lens/aperture the size of a pinhole :-( | 17:58 |
| E0x | MohammadAG: nicola rewrite is the the same backend afaik and what i see he is not doing anything change of the way that camera handle picture because still are very noisy picture and some iso problems | 17:58 |
| chem|st | I would be happy with ram cpu/gpu upgrades as well, a compass would be nice but not a must have | 17:58 |
| E0x | maybe in the future will better | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I want a 1" sensor | 17:58 |
| E0x | SpeedEvil: indeed i forget that too , more ram | 17:58 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: buy a DSLR... | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | E0x, noise is prolly cause the lens sucks | 17:59 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: The lens can't be much bigger. | 17:59 |
| chem|st | it would be enough to have the cam app start in under 5 seconds to take snapshots... (thats for an uptime of 9+ days) | 17:59 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: The problem is the sensor is too small to allow for the resolution. | 17:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Many of my issues aren't really HW issues at all. | 18:00 |
| E0x | MohammadAG: hmm i don't much about photographic but i doubt is because lense | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | then it's because the sensor sucks :P | 18:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Most, even. | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | E0x, it is | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | try the N95, I'm pretty sure that doesn't do good processing either | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I want a 1" sensor | 18:00 |
| E0x | SpeedEvil: noise problem is because the sensor ? | 18:00 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: The sensor does surprisingly well, for the limited number of photons hitting it. | 18:01 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: Size is the major cause of the low performance in the dark. | 18:01 |
| SpeedEvil | (though good for its class) | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | small sensor == less light | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | less light == more noise | 18:01 |
| E0x | true , because in much light the picture look good | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | 2 photons = ~0.2 electrons (after the filters and stuff). | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why 15mp is MEH on such a form factor | 18:02 |
| E0x | i have a few photo at beach and look great | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | though tbh, I find nicolai's rewrite much better | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | So you need at least a few thousand photons hitting each pixel to get a reasonably noise-free image. | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | it snaps the pic faster, so the pics end up sharper even if you shake the cam after taking the pic | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | And that's in theory - there is probably an irreducable 20 or 50 photoelectron noise in there too. | 18:03 |
| MohammadAG | whereas with the stock UI, I have to keep the phone still for like 3-5s | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | more pixels on same area of chip == less light / pixel | 18:03 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: yeah a bigger sensor with 8mp would be fair enough for a smartphone | 18:04 |
| E0x | well actual maemo 5 in new hardware will not that good but maemo 5 fixing some of the stock app in the same hardware ( n900 ) will make a great device | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | bigger sensor == longer F | 18:04 |
| E0x | and i think is the CSSU big atractive | 18:04 |
| MohammadAG | no, maemo 5 would be good on new hardware | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | so deeper formfactor. You need some tricks to get that into a smartphone | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | just up the kernel and dump closed apps | 18:05 |
| E0x | MohammadAG: exactly | 18:05 |
| E0x | that is my point , actual maemo need that fixed first | 18:05 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: there is lots of space... already | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | there is? | 18:06 |
| chem|st | at least 1.5mm if you remove the stupid housing and put a dust shield directly on the sensor | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | as a rule of thumb you can say a cam module always is cube'ish | 18:07 |
| E0x | http://picpaste.com/20101030_005-hRQ5Ytx1.jpg | 18:07 |
| chem|st | the sensor itself isn't flat on top either | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so my 1" sensor needs a lens protruding 1" from the sensor plane | 18:08 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: not talking of its cubic formfactor but the thickness | 18:08 |
| chem|st | and not talking of 1" sensors O_o | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | -> without tricks the "phone" is 30mm thick then | 18:09 |
| E0x | tricks ? | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | mirrors etc | 18:09 |
| E0x | mugen battery you mean ? | 18:09 |
| E0x | ok | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can "fold" the light path | 18:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | _/\/\/° | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-) | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | /_--0 | 18:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /_--°/ | 18:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or simply use a zoom-out lens like almost all the better compact cams do | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HAH | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | use a holographic lens, a holographic picture of a (virtual) lens hoovering 2" above the device. Place that holo-gobo relatively close on top of the sensor, full area full apperture | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | (probably a idiotic idea, mut quite intriguing) | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/mut/but/. | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, alas it's nonsense :-P | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't do anything faintly similar to a real large lens | 18:21 |
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| E0x | slide to answer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJfEqygIqNA | 18:22 |
| chem|st | less poor materials on top of the sensor == more light... | 18:22 |
| E0x | at 2:30 | 18:22 |
| chem|st | so what? | 18:23 |
| chem|st | WFM was always my answer... I never *repeat* never ever accidentially answered a call | 18:24 |
| E0x | WFM ? | 18:24 |
| chem|st | ~WFM | 18:24 |
| infobot | well, wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications.. Works For Me | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I sometimes accidently rejected a call | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf wfm | 18:25 |
| infobot | WFM: works for me | 18:25 |
| chem|st | in short^^ | 18:25 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: with better materials (surface conditioning) the n900 could get 25% more light I would claim | 18:26 |
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| E0x | not sure if you happen to you guys but the glich when the device is locked happen to me | 18:26 |
| E0x | time to time | 18:26 |
| E0x | rotation-gllich | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | a "mute ringtone" button/function would be way more needed (imho) than a slide-to-answer | 18:26 |
| E0x | tha incremese the rate of wrong rejected calls | 18:26 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: function is... | 18:27 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: just turn it up side down and it silences | 18:27 |
| chem|st | means screen down | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, seems I forgot :-D | 18:27 |
| E0x | chem|st: yes but that have a bug | 18:27 |
| E0x | or not a bug but a missing feature | 18:28 |
| chem|st | works with alarms and calls for me | 18:28 |
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| chem|st | E0x: what do you mean | 18:28 |
| E0x | if somebody call you and you flip it it work | 18:28 |
| E0x | but if the same ppl call you again | 18:28 |
| E0x | the phone ring | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | which brings me to another alternative concept to "slide to answer": shake prior to pushbutton to answer | 18:28 |
| chem|st | E0x: yes so? | 18:28 |
| chem|st | you want a block list? | 18:29 |
| E0x | not but stay in muted mode till i flip back it | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, E0x complains about a feature | 18:29 |
| chem|st | get it yeah | 18:29 |
| E0x | yes that is what i say : bug of missing feature | 18:29 |
| E0x | or* | 18:29 |
| chem|st | actualy I *do not* want it to be silenced for good if turned | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd consider this a really bad feature if it stays muted as long as it sits there face down | 18:30 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: +1 | 18:30 |
| E0x | na | 18:30 |
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| chem|st | if I turn of my alarm that way and someone calls me while it is turned... | 18:31 |
| chem|st | or the other way round... | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | E0x: if you want that, you easily can implement via orientation aware daemon (e.g. dwimd) plus setting profile=silent | 18:31 |
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| chem|st | or I turn it for my mum and minutes later my sister calls... | 18:31 |
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| E0x | DocScrutinizer: yes, i was thinking in that | 18:31 |
| E0x | Right NOW | 18:32 |
| E0x | :D | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | glad to help :-D | 18:32 |
| E0x | hehe i was cool in a meeting somebody calle me and i forget to change the profile of the n900 so i remember the feature | 18:33 |
| E0x | and just flip it | 18:33 |
| E0x | some ppl there say Wow | 18:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems N900 has much more WOWs than we usually are aware of | 18:35 |
| E0x | but not was a great crowd neither | 18:35 |
| E0x | DocScrutinizer: heh | 18:35 |
| GAN900 | Wee, tornados | 18:35 |
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| E0x | the phone has great great potencial but no so well implementation | 18:36 |
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| * DocScrutinizer envisions GAN900 jump his stormchaser van | 18:36 | |
| MohammadAG | heh, a classmate had his phone ring and the display didn't go on | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | he couldn't silence it, i took it from him and flipped it | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | the class kinda lol'd at that | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 18:37 |
| E0x | heh | 18:37 |
| E0x | that was a bad and the same time good moment for the n900 | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | and yeah, flip to silence then set silent profile | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | that would be better than keeping it silent when it's flipped | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | sometimes I sleep with headphones in my ears and flip the N900 | 18:38 |
| MohammadAG | E0x, tbh, I think his proximity sensor's borked | 18:38 |
| MohammadAG | I had to slide the lock switch to unlock the screen | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | concept: when flipping->mute, check prox sensor for 5 s. If after 5s still no prox detection->switch to silent | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so E0x can flip and hold for 5s, then put on desk | 18:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | others just flip and put on desk | 18:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG flipps by accident -> also no problem, as it won't magically hoover for 5s (unless dropped from a skyscraper :-P) | 18:41 |
| E0x | which muted will be the last of his problem | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what I meant :-D | 18:42 |
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| chem|st | what about skydiving... ever thought of it... | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I fail to spot the problem | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, i just do an air flip | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | no desks required :P | 18:44 |
| chem|st | I'd love to have it check for proximity changes > 3cm to mute a call or an alarm | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: rrright. So you'd have to flip back upright in less than 5s, otherwise profile=silent. Not too hard to accomplish, eh? | 18:45 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: yeah it is using accelerometers not proximity | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 18:45 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr, you all missed the point?? impossible | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if there's actually a dbus signal on flipping the device | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | doh | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | orientation | 18:46 |
| chem|st | having the jedi gesture is still a feature I'd love :( | 18:46 |
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| MohammadAG | I'd make a daemon in Qt, shouldn't take 5 mins | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | if call arrived, check orientation, if down, phone will be muted, fire a QTimer of 5000ms, if proximity is closed, set profile to silent | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's all you need already out there. No need to "make a daemon" | 18:47 |
| MohammadAG | sounds easy | 18:47 |
| chem|st | that needs a setting in phone settings then... | 18:47 |
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| MohammadAG | I still want the tap feature of the accelerometer | 18:48 |
| chem|st | tap feature? | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | it can detect taps | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's for sure a dbus-signal you can catch, for orientation. You can go with dbus-scripting, or exploit dwimd which is meant to do exactly such things | 18:48 |
| chem|st | ah ok | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | the E66 did that | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer said it was missing code in the driver | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | tap/double-tap is not supported by lis302dl driver | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | but is by the HW | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 18:49 |
| chem|st | neat! | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | someone hack it in please :P | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | detection *can* be done in lis302 | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | but? | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | but there's no userland software using this new sysnode triggering an event yet | 18:50 |
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| MohammadAG | there can be | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | you only need an augmented driver in PK | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's kinda simple to implement | 18:51 |
| MohammadAG | can you do it? | 18:51 |
| chem|st | where do I find HW specs of the proxi sensor? | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I for sure could, if I could find the mood to dive into kernel hacking | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | why do you need those? | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: nowhere | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: completely unclear what a component this is | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: too smal for proper label on it | 18:52 |
| chem|st | is there a proper readout possible? | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | see proximityd | 18:53 |
| chem|st | distance I mean? | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: and as you know we got no component names on schematics | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | no | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | it's either open or closed | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: nope, this is a switch | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | has 3 contacts afaik | 18:53 |
| chem|st | by driver I guess | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | no driver | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a switch | 18:54 |
| chem|st | ok | 18:54 |
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| MohammadAG | 200Hz is the rate afaik | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | of lis302? | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | or what? | 18:55 |
| MohammadAG | proximity | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 18:55 |
| MohammadAG | well, it fires a "light" every 0.2s | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | and Qt Mobility's N900 plugin states 200ms | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a hw that sends an ultrashort light strobe every 0.x seconds, and monitors the reflection. If reflection detected it pulls the signal pin low | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, 0.2s | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | so that's nowhere near anything like 200Hz | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's more like this swich can operate at max 2.5Hz | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | sorry, meant ms, not Hz | 18:59 |
| MohammadAG | which would be 5Hz | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 1Hz == one on AND off / s | 18:59 |
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| MohammadAG | oh, then it's 5/2, as you said | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | so with one probe every 200ms the switch can do 2.5Hz, not 5 | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: got a pointer to QtMob's statement about that prox sensor? | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | on the N900 atm, sec | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | thinking of getting an Archos for browsing | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | thinking of getting a coffin filled with salt | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mybe I conserve a lil bit better that way | 19:05 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm, it says 100Hz | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not surprised | 19:06 |
| MohammadAG | http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54 | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WAAAAAAAH!!! it POLLS! | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | it takes 7-17% CPU time, that's why I don't use it | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | OK, let me state one think: QtMob IS UTTER CRAP | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | have those morons ever heard about kevents? | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what sysfs is all about, that's what IRQs are all about | 19:09 |
| MohammadAG | or mce, since it's N900 specific anyway | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | you FUCKING DO NOT poll peripherals that are IRQ based. The purpose of IRQs is to wake the CPU when there's something to do. ***NOT*** I repeat NOT to poll the sensor 100 times a second to find out if sth changed, and ignoring the IRQ | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | Oh my Gosh, when even Qt guys are so stupid, how can I blame meego devels about not having any clue | 19:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer is waiting for some good minded soul to prod him to open a ticket against that crap. | 19:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I WON'T - I'm PISSED SINCE LONG | 19:14 |
| E0x | just open the ticked and say : THIS IS A CRAP FIX IT | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | all those "cute" sw devels who think they know everything about hw and don't need somebody like me | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | CBA | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | I'd submit a patch if I knew how to read those interrupts | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a think called kevents (iirc) - udev uses them a lot. You register with a sysfs node and get a callback whenever there's sth interesting happening | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/think/thing/. | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a fundamental concept of sysfs | 19:17 |
| MohammadAG | funny thing is it's using FILE *fd instead of QFile | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's *nothing* funny about that crap in my book | 19:18 |
| E0x | http://www.signal11.us/oss/udev/ | 19:20 |
| E0x | jump to monitoring interface | 19:20 |
| MohammadAG | excuse my noobish question, but this is somewhat similar to gconf's value changed signal right? | 19:20 |
| E0x | i think that is what is needed | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>libudev also provides a monitoring interface. The monitoring interface will report events to the application when the status of a device changes. | 19:22 |
| E0x | DocScrutinizer: kqueue is teh name | 19:23 |
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| E0x | not sure the dif beteween kqueues and libudev | 19:23 |
| E0x | http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.94.2021&rep=rep1&type=pdf | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | libudev obviously is for udev | 19:24 |
| E0x | i mean in which is more proper for n900 or maemo | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I loosely followed how FSO is doing these things (initially on Openmoko devices), so my knowledge is not from using it but only from speedreading the code there | 19:25 |
| E0x | ok | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | So I'll not bother to dig out the bookmarks for the code to use those kevents/kqueues/knotifications/whatever | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know there are proper methods and tools to implement this in a non.polling way like sysfs is meant to be used | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I CBA anymore about crap like qtmob or sensorfw going nasty and stupid, as nobody pays me for educating so called professionals | 19:29 |
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| E0x | inotifylook like is the thing | 19:30 |
| E0x | well time to lunch ,bbl | 19:31 |
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| MohammadAG | remind me to dump QMaemo5InformationBox for my own libhildon-based class | 19:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Bleh | 19:40 |
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| jacekowski | it looks like i may be unemployed from 1st of april | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 19:43 |
| jacekowski | or whatever long it takes for hmrc to close company | 19:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | April Fools? :( | 19:44 |
| jacekowski | no | 19:44 |
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| jacekowski | 2 months ago they took some of company vans | 19:45 |
| jacekowski | and well, it's payday and there is nothing in my account ( and everybody elses ) | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: WTF?! | 19:46 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: ? | 19:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: what shitty news | 19:49 |
| jacekowski | not so much | 19:50 |
| jacekowski | for last half year i was doing fuck all | 19:50 |
| jacekowski | with some occasional jobs | 19:50 |
| jacekowski | no i just have motivation to look for something better | 19:51 |
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| jacekowski | it's just that there is nothing within reasonable distance | 19:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, so you decided to blow up the rocks? :-D | 19:59 |
| jacekowski | well, i'm thinking about doing it hardcore way | 20:00 |
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| jacekowski | which is piss of my current employer as much as i can | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, the exploding freq converter wasn't good enough? | 20:01 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, it wasn't my fault, i was doing everything as said by manufacturer | 20:01 |
| jacekowski | to that point | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-( | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | err :-) | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | (blame blindtyping) | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | before i got to doing some clever stuff it exploded | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suggest you better lift the expensive devices and sell on ebay rather than blow up | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | yeah, i already made sure that expensive stuff is in my car | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | better to balance your bank account which is missing quite something | 20:03 |
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| ZogG | what? | 20:04 |
| ZogG | are you high? | 20:04 |
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| jacekowski | no, just not paid | 20:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer starts over headdesking. EE did a great job, still users complain and whine for double sized batteries, while Qt department goes polling(!!!) a switch @ 100Hz that can and will do IRQ and can change at mac 2.5Hz | 20:12 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer changes for wall, harder than desk, so maybe better | 20:13 | |
| jacekowski | which switch | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | prox | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54 | 20:14 |
| jacekowski | all the time? | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, otherwise it's useless | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | no? | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | or just when it's lit | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | err wut? | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | prox always on VDD | 20:15 |
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| jacekowski | proximity sensor is useless when display isn't lit | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | so is it polling all the time | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | or when display is lit | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | or phone is doing something | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | who defines prox useless whithout display backlight? | 20:16 |
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| frals | DocScrutinizer: im sure they are happy if you submit a merge request to fix it | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm sure I CBA, as this shows an elementary lack of understanding about how to implement decent power aware functions in *all* Qt(-Moob), so this would just be a start, and really... I'm unpaid, they are the "pros" | 20:18 |
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| jacekowski | i'm not paid too | 20:19 |
| ShadowJK | polling proximity sensor constantly would be harmful for battery life :) | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | MAAAN obviously | 20:20 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: nope, it IS harmful | 20:20 |
| ShadowJK | same goes for accelerometer | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 20:20 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: look at the link DocScrutinizer posted | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | same shit like in sensorfw of meego | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just can't believe it | 20:20 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 20:20 |
| * ShadowJK misses context of conversation again due to n900's small screensize ;D | 20:21 | |
| jacekowski | 19:12 * DocScrutinizer starts over headdesking. EE did a great job, still users complain and whine for double sized batteries, while Qt department goes polling(!!!) a switch @ 100Hz that can and will do IRQ and can change at mac 2.5Hz | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-03-31 18:08:37] <MohammadAG> it takes 7-17% CPU time, that's why I don't use it | 20:22 |
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| jacekowski | 19:14 < DocScrutinizer> http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54 | 20:22 |
| ShadowJK | Anyone files bugreport... | 20:23 |
| ShadowJK | anyway, even if it didn't show up in top, it'd eat batterypower... | 20:23 |
| ShadowJK | It's all about the wakeups :/ | 20:23 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | 20:23 | |
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| ShadowJK | Browser is even more annoying to scroll anything in when it blinks white all the time | 20:27 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders about SElinux to BLAME apps that use too many timer calls | 20:28 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | like in: any app may use max 5000 timer wakeups, then gets killed | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe per day | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or make that 50,000, doesn't matter | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or make the devel come to me personally and ask for using timers, while I wave the whip | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | morons | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the hardware is IRQ driven. If there *really* is any valid reason why the app can't go irq as well (i.e. callback), then this reason has to get fixed. | 20:35 |
| Robot101 | this is why android uses wakelocks | 20:35 |
| Robot101 | to force everything to sleep | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and this is why I hated android | 20:36 |
| Robot101 | even if idle dalvik wakes up 60 times a second even when the phone is idle | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: you seen the rant above, about http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54 ? | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | There's that wrapper thing that forces stuff to sleep that someone wrote for SDL games :) | 20:37 |
| Robot101 | yes | 20:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | waitaminute, let's see if I can tatoo a name of an ass to kick, into my cortex | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ** Copyright (C) 2010 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary(-ies). | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, cowards | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/history/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH! | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | >:-( | 20:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | clearly we need a maemo WTF of the week | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you suggested I should provide a patch for Qt-mob. I have NFC *if* and *what* object they provide that's _not_ such a friggin n900filebasedsensor and maybe actually is using the above mentioned mechanisms of event driven programming meant to get used for IRQ based sensors in sysfs | 20:48 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if inotify works on sysfs | 20:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | so any patch might mean a major redesign of large parts of Qt-mob | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: (if it's actually 'inotify' and) if it's not, then the kernel *absolutely* needs a fix to make it work | 20:50 |
| ShadowJK | Well, that particular file looks fixable, since it actually calls a newReadingsAvailable thing of proximity state changes | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I now fsodeviced (iirc, might be fsoeventsd or whatever) IS using that paradigm | 20:51 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, it doesn't | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | But it also would probably need something to know when stuff wants sensor readings or not | 20:52 |
| MohammadAG | (ionotify) | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, this thing had to get called on kernel notifying a change in sysfs | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, know how if not through inotify? | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm rather sure it's not inotify, it's sth different that's used for sysfs | 20:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: why should it know about somebody wanting to know about sensor readings? | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | So that it can switch off sensors when their data isn't needed | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a problem of how you activate sensors, and usually has to be done explicitly via writing some value to some controlling sysnode | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | though there are also designs that sense if the readout sysnode gets opened | 20:55 |
| ShadowJK | awesome: http://lwn.net/Articles/174660/ | 20:55 |
| ShadowJK | (someone bookmark that for me) | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | related? | 20:56 |
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| ShadowJK | sort of | 20:56 |
| * ShadowJK should implement this for a charge4.sh ;p | 20:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, there it is: kobject was one of the keywords | 20:58 |
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| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, no idea, but I tried monitoring sysfs with ionotify and got nothing | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | inotify is for 'normal' filesystems afaik. Can't work in sysfs | 21:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kevents is the buzzword | 21:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you're registering for certain kevents by providing match-criteria | 21:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fd = Posix.socket( Linux.Socket.AF_NETLINK, Posix.SOCK_DGRAM, Linux.Netlink.NETLINK_KOBJECT_UEVENT ); | 21:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=libfsoframework/fsoframework/kobjectnotifier.vala;h=b4d6aca64d67e118a58fb11f72aa084b75f50fb5;hb=00c471c86667ad3d86610296a634496d746ec287#l61 | 21:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this is how FSO is dealing with change of state of a sysfs node, i.e a sensor/whatever causing an interrupt and thus changing content of /sys/*/foo/bar | 21:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (don't worry, it's vala, not you gotten drunk without noticing) | 21:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually it seems you get all kevents from this netlink socket, and then you check if the parameters match the event you're interested in. Well that's not too bad as *somebody* has to do this matching anyway, and CPU is running at that moment, so it's not like your app would wake the CPU for nothing. No question it's another universe than POLLING sysfs nodes | 21:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OK enough of pointers from my side. I guess everybody really interested knows enough now to fix or at least file a ticket against QtMob's n900proximitysensor.cpp | 21:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or maybe against QtMob's n900filebasedsensor() implementation | 21:47 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | hi | 22:02 |
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| ShadowJK | that lwn article suggests one could open() a sysfs node, and then do poll() on it? | 22:04 |
| E0x | relate: http://lwn.net/Articles/193691/ | 22:07 |
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| E0x | i am looking for some example | 22:07 |
| E0x | but without look | 22:07 |
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| E0x | i am asking in kernelnewbies now | 22:07 |
| E0x | http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysfs-rules.txt | 22:09 |
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| kerio | lol - sysfs rulez | 22:12 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | i just bought a used n900 the guy who sold it said that he left all hes stuff(cr*p) in the phone.. | 22:19 |
| o0-Dan-0o | is this the way to go? ---> " http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware + http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=849980&postcount=20 " | 22:19 |
| MohammadAG | infobot, flashing | 22:19 |
| infobot | somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 22:19 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | =) | 22:21 |
| o0-Dan-0o | yeah thats the stuff | 22:21 |
| o0-Dan-0o | thanks MohammadAG | 22:21 |
| o0-Dan-0o | so (flashing the) eMMC aka *VANILLA* | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | flash both | 22:22 |
| o0-Dan-0o | is gonna make the phone as new? | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG | yep | 22:22 |
| o0-Dan-0o | both ? | 22:22 |
| jacekowski | yes | 22:22 |
| jacekowski | never flash emmc without fiasco | 22:23 |
| o0-Dan-0o | FIASCO isnt included when flashing eMMC | 22:23 |
| o0-Dan-0o | ? | 22:23 |
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| jacekowski | no | 22:23 |
| o0-Dan-0o | oh | 22:23 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | ok thank you guys | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | you're welcome :) | 22:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o0-Dan-0o: make sure you got no freaking device lock code set | 22:24 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | gonna read the page and do it ^^ | 22:24 |
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| MohammadAG | if he does, he can clear it after flashing | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | as this one is NOT reset to factory default 12345, even by flashing all | 22:25 |
| o0-Dan-0o | device lock whata.. | 22:25 |
| o0-Dan-0o | do they refer that in the page | 22:25 |
| o0-Dan-0o | !? | 22:25 |
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| E0x | you can crack it | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should check in settings / lockcode *before you flash*, as maybe afterwards you might not be able to access device anymore | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but only if access possible | 22:26 |
| E0x | true | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I suggested to check it NOW | 22:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not whine after flashing | 22:26 |
| o0-Dan-0o | ok good point i'll check that | 22:26 |
| E0x | don't could be a way for workaround in case somebody flash the device without know that | 22:27 |
| E0x | code ? | 22:27 |
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| E0x | or is just get bricked | 22:27 |
| E0x | ? | 22:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there *are* ways around, but they are complicated and somewhat dangerous | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> you should check in settings / lockcode *before you flash*, as maybe afterwards you might not be able to access device anymore | 22:29 |
| E0x | hardware mod things ? | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | if you flash it, it doesn't prompt for a code | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 22:30 |
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| MohammadAG | nah, you can just crack it after flashing | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I never tested that, but would think it's rather idiotic | 22:30 |
| MohammadAG | or before, doesn't really matter | 22:30 |
| o0-Dan-0o | man the phone is slow as h*ll | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the shipped image should check if there's any non-standard lock code set and enabled, no? | 22:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IF they are stupid enough to disable lock code via e.g gconf setting then I'd expect this flag to be on "check" in default image | 22:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but I'd rather think both the code and the fact it's enabled or disabled are in CAL | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | the code for sure is, so why shouldn't the flag? | 22:33 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | i'm setting language to english just to be sure we are talking about the same option | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | settings -> devicelock(?) | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | the padlock icon | 22:36 |
| o0-Dan-0o | autolock = disabled | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that' | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | s | 22:37 |
| o0-Dan-0o | are we good to go | 22:37 |
| o0-Dan-0o | =) | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | not the point | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | click on "change lock code" | 22:37 |
| jacekowski | lock is not stored in cal | 22:37 |
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| jacekowski | it's just a code that's stored there | 22:37 |
| jacekowski | and only code | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | try to change it from 12345 to 12345 | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | if this doesn't work, you should follow instructions of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> the shipped image should check if there's any non-standard lock code set and enabled, no? | 22:40 |
| o0-Dan-0o | lock code chaged | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | should, right | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | but isn't | 22:40 |
| o0-Dan-0o | seems its cool right | 22:40 |
| o0-Dan-0o | 12345 | 22:40 |
| o0-Dan-0o | was the code | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, fine | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | i have a problem with HAM | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | i can't install anything because it keeps thinking that i don't have enough space | 22:41 |
| o0-Dan-0o | not having a sim card while doing all the stuff its ok right?! | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, wanna facepalm? gconftool-2 -R /apps/osso/applet/osso-applet-devicelock | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | even better | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA | 22:42 |
| o0-Dan-0o | =) | 22:42 |
| o0-Dan-0o | battery low though =/ have to charge it 1st | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | definitely | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | so, anybody heard about my problem? | 22:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: usually that's caused by actually too low free space | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | not in my case | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | rootfs 227.9M 181.4M 42.3M 81% / | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | disable catalogs | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | /home/opt 2.0G 1.7G 123.0M 94% /opt | 22:45 |
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| jacekowski | hmmm | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | i started it on terminal | 22:46 |
| MohammadAG | devicelock_total_failed = 16 | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | apt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | what? | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | apt-worker: free space (/home/) = 128946176 | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | apt-worker: total space (/home/) = 2113748992 | 22:46 |
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| jacekowski | 123M isn't enough | 22:46 |
| MohammadAG | why is this useful again? | 22:46 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, can it write to where it wants to write? | 22:46 |
| MohammadAG | is /home writable? | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | yes | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | disable catalogs | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | or free space in /home | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | how much does it need? | 22:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno, I guess it depends on your catalogs | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | /dev/mmcblk0p2 2.0G 1.6G 238.2M 88% /home | 22:48 |
| MohammadAG | no | 22:48 |
| jacekowski | and it's happy now | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 22:49 |
| jacekowski | apt-worker is closed isn't it? | 22:49 |
| MohammadAG | it depends on debian/control of the deb you're install | 22:49 |
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| MohammadAG | Maemo-Required-Free-space | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 22:49 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: i very much doubt that opera needs more than 100M of free space i had | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG, our Einstein :-D | 22:49 |
| MohammadAG | or something along those lines | 22:49 |
| MohammadAG | or HAM's being retarded, reminds me of a bug actually | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | for unpacking it might. At least according to MohammadAG the devels packaging it claimed it needs more | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG | then it's being retarded :P | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, no, it isn't | 22:50 |
| jacekowski | new opera is cute | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG | I'm trying to get the "matrix" red pill thing back | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG | the code's there, just disabled somewhere | 22:51 |
| jacekowski | it's all nice and sexy and fast | 22:51 |
| jacekowski | not like firefox based crap | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 22:52 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, HAM can check debian/control before downloading | 22:52 |
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| MohammadAG | I like opera for one reason only | 22:53 |
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| MohammadAG | they support N8x0 users and N900 users | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | even though both platforms are dead, at least officially | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | and their on screen keyboard is working | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | that too | 22:54 |
| Venemo_N900 | good evening Maemo :) | 22:54 |
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| MohammadAG | evening Venemo_N900 | 22:55 |
| MohammadAG | something bothers me DocScrutinizer | 22:55 |
| MohammadAG | enable autolock and restart mce | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're bothered IF i'm really doing this? :-P no worries, I wait until you tell me what is going to happen | 22:57 |
| MohammadAG | it prompts for the code | 22:57 |
| MohammadAG | so it's actually mce requesting code at startup | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | makes sense | 22:58 |
| MohammadAG | so inserting some stop mce into a place in init.d can override the dialog | 22:58 |
| MohammadAG | actually, flashing to recover a password might not be needed | 22:59 |
| MohammadAG | just export eMMC over USB and edit gconf | 22:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure you don't flash to recover a password, that's rather nonsensical | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd use rescue-initrd | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | what if you're locked out of the device | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | what if mtd support is missing | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | if sth is missing, add it | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | umm | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG | where are gconf settings stored? | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG | they're in $HOME/.gconf on ubuntu | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | in a couple of friggin files | 23:03 |
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| MohammadAG | meh | 23:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd ruthlessly flash CAL with an image of another unlocked device | 23:06 |
| MohammadAG | twimgo stores my password as plaintext | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever that is, so what? | 23:06 |
| phap | this command to mute the sound doesn't work with me: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.maemo.Playback.Manager /org/maemo/Playback/Manager org.maemo.Playback.Manager.RequestMute boolean:True | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're one of the "protect me from my own passwords! ROT13 FTW!" fanboys? :-P | 23:07 |
| Sazpaimon_ | where can I find some hildon toolbar icon examples | 23:07 |
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| phap | dbus-send: Expected "true" or "false" instead of "True" well of course I tried 'true' I get no error but still it does nothing | 23:08 |
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| dan2k | a question.. to get N900 flasher to work in Windows 7 64-bit (x64) is still needed to do http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=849980&postcount=20 | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG | so does cutetube | 23:10 |
| dan2k | !? | 23:10 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no, it's just a bit risky if someone breaks into your device :P | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hahaha | 23:13 |
| o0-Dan-0o | i use win7 64bit is it still required to follow this? -> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=849980&postcount=20 | 23:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: to make it clear: don't you think who/whatever breaks your system authentication security will also know how foobar-acme is rot13-crypting the password and can as easily decode it as foobar-acme can? | 23:18 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 23:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Phone stealing people aregenerally not very bright. | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so they for sure are too stupid to copy the file where the foobar-acme pw is stored | 23:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | duh wait, why copy it? why not just start foobare-acme? | 23:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry, this for sure makes no sense at all | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it only would make a marginal sense if you use same pw for all your auth, some of them stored in files and some require you entering them realtime | 23:24 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | 64-bit users may encounter problems | 23:28 |
| o0-Dan-0o | ..or will | 23:28 |
| o0-Dan-0o | if they do will they "brick" the equipment | 23:29 |
| o0-Dan-0o | XD | 23:29 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | just want to be safe | 23:30 |
| jigrap | has anyone used the built in maemo application to access gmail? I have the SSL settings on and it seems to be failing | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | o0-Dan-0o: no chance to 'brick' anything | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | just make sure your battery is 100% charged | 23:34 |
| o0-Dan-0o | =) ok DocScrutinizer51 | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if flashing keeps failing, recharge while you do other things like googling | 23:35 |
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| o0-Dan-0o | but is it better to follow the workaround at the 1st try | 23:35 |
| o0-Dan-0o | or what | 23:35 |
| o0-Dan-0o | what do you advice | 23:35 |
| o0-Dan-0o | ? | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | a flat battery is the only way to 'brick' the thing | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if you feel uncomfortable, go for the complicated way with battery insertion etc | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the other 'simple' way is for experienced users | 23:37 |
| BCMM | how does maemo handle .install files from the browser? | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | eerrr? | 23:38 |
| BCMM | i'm trying to install firefox 4, but clicking it in microb isn't launching HAM | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 23:38 |
| BCMM | i've now downloaded the .install with wget, but i'm not sure what to do now | 23:38 |
| BCMM | hildon-application-manager --some-parameter file.install? | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hehe, just click it again | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | in browser | 23:39 |
| BCMM | clicked quite a few times now | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | filemanager | 23:39 |
| BCMM | btw, navigating to the file:// location of the .install i fetched with wget does nothing; it clearly expects a correct mimetype | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or that | 23:39 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: find it in filemanager? ok | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | it needs to have the correct mimetype on the server for microB to open HAM | 23:39 |
| BCMM | figured. | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | if you've got firefox or fennec installed from before you need to uninstall it | 23:40 |
| BCMM | ShadowJK: ok | 23:40 |
| BCMM | figured that might be the case, but i don't think that's the problem i have here since ham doesn't even start | 23:40 |
| Proteous | I installed firefox 4 via a button on the website | 23:40 |
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| Proteous | last week | 23:41 |
| Proteous | it correctly opened up HAM | 23:41 |
| user_ | yo | 23:41 |
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| Proteous | sup | 23:41 |
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| vi___ | sup broslice | 23:41 |
| Proteous | yo funkbrother | 23:41 |
| BCMM | aaah | 23:41 |
| BCMM | didn't think to check the downloads window | 23:41 |
| jonaskoe1ker | Hi all. On my n900, the rss feed "http://foldvary.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default?alt=rss" doesn't work in the builtin RSS reader. Can anyone else reproduce this behavior? | 23:42 |
| BCMM | the download stalled at 0% somehow | 23:42 |
| BCMM | naturally, clicking on it repeatedly didn't make it abandon the ongoing attempt to download it | 23:42 |
| vi___ | does anyone know how exactly the mmc is unmounted when the backcover of the n900 is removed? | 23:42 |
| BCMM | i just don't know why it didn't time out... | 23:42 |
| Proteous | jonaskoe1ker: trying to get people to supsribe to your feed? ;) | 23:42 |
| vi___ | becuse it sure doesnt unmount gracefully... | 23:42 |
| jonaskoe1ker | Alternate blogs work in the RSS reader, and foldvary works fine on liferea@debian-testing | 23:42 |
| jonaskoe1ker | Proteous: no, it's Fred Foldvary's | 23:43 |
| Proteous | I was joking :) | 23:43 |
| BCMM | vi___: define gracefully? | 23:43 |
| jonaskoe1ker | Proteous: :) | 23:43 |
| jonaskoe1ker | Proteous: care to check whether you can reproduce? | 23:43 |
| vi___ | a proper unmount that allows for all IO to cease | 23:43 |
| Proteous | jonaskoe1ker: I've never used the rss reader | 23:43 |
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| vi___ | as oppose to an outright 'yank the card out' | 23:44 |
| Proteous | jonaskoe1ker: not that that is a huge hurdle, but I'm also at work | 23:44 |
| jonaskoe1ker | Proteous: fair :) | 23:44 |
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| vi___ | is it a HAL script? | 23:44 |
| vi___ | cos i cant find it | 23:44 |
| vi___ | and i am not sure how to work it out | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi___: how should it umount more gracefully than just umount? | 23:46 |
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| vi___ | i want to have swap on sd AND want it to unmount nicely if I take the back off. i.e. when back comes off, swapoff is run | 23:47 |
| vi___ | so the machine doesnt just spazz out as a huge chunk of swap suddenly disappears | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Swapoff may take over a minute | 23:48 |
| vi___ | ya follow? | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure - byt swapoff may take over a minute. | 23:49 |
| vi___ | thats fine by me | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | You'd need a 'OK to unount now' signal | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - OK to pull the card | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's no timplemented this way | 23:50 |
| vi___ | thats all fine | 23:50 |
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| vi___ | i just dont know how to 'hook' into the process | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | uSD VDD powerdown is directly in kernel driver afaik | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so that driver is first thing you need to "hook into" | 23:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway you want to look at ke_rcv | 23:52 |
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| vi___ | cheers bro! | 23:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe you get things accomplished there | 23:52 |
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| BCMM | this "Quick zoom" in firefox 4 for mobiles; is it the same as the double-tap zoom in microb? | 23:56 |
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