IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-03-24

ZogGnokia-> samsung00:01
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alteregoHrm ..00:04
alteregoAnother linux mobile os :/00:04
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GAN900Is this the thing raster was talking about?00:16
GAN900Lotta proprietary shit in there.00:16
Robot101yeah, lots of obvious fail00:16
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javispedromoo pupnik00:19
GAN900Why can't we just have something useful and fun?00:19
javispedrobecause you'll break it!00:20
ShadowJKI thought it was going to be xorg and stuff00:21
javispedroit is, with enlightment00:22
ShadowJKmore blue than nokia00:22
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javispedro(the webos-style remark comes from the level of openness and upstreamness, which is, well, webos-like)00:23
ShadowJKWell the Xorg glib gtk enlightenment side of it is cool00:24
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ShadowJKwell.. especially the hw drivers look scary00:26
* lardman wonders which drivers these are00:28
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javispedroyou can bet the usual ones ( 3d )00:29
ShadowJKAlso listed are wifi and usb (huh?)00:30
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javispedrothat is probably something like icd200:32
javispedronot the actual driver00:32
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javispedroimho the biggest problem with this platform is that it is in a worse situation that post-elopcalypse meego in nokiasoft.00:33
javispedrobecause samsung has bada and android, and neither of those two is doing badly.00:33
ShadowJKbada is their symbian, android is the thing they want to get rid of00:34
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javispedrobada? they virtually just invented it.00:34
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javispedroit's only relatively few years old, hardly symbian level00:34
javispedroand _all_ of their content on mwc was about it (save for the droid tablets...)00:35
ShadowJKIn the sense that it's their inexpensive midrange thing00:35
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turboweiwhy does samsung wanna stick with gtk? why not  qt?00:35
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javispedrowhy not Tcl/Tk? Why not EFL? ... oops.00:36
alterego"stick with"?00:36
alteregoThey've not done it yet :P00:36
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alteregoIt certainly wont attract much developers ..00:36
ShadowJKI suspect EFL is for that00:37
turboweioh, well, they designed the thing based on gtk, seems00:37
javispedrobecause "the thing" is the ACCESS linux platform00:37
javispedrowhich was gtk+ based00:37
javispedrothen suddenly moved into the EFL realm.00:38
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* javispedro feels déjà vu00:38
wmarone_You can go talk to raster over in #e if you want the gory details00:38
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ThreeMis it possible to prevent microb to go back on pressing backspace?00:40
ThreeMits really annoying00:40
turboweianyone using twimgo?00:41
Macerwow ovi maps is so horrible :)00:42
Macersomeone should port google nav00:42
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turboweihow do u change to task switching mode from twimgo? since it hides the title bar00:42
wmarone_Macer: we haven't known this for 1.5 years now? :P00:42
Macerwmarone_: longer.. but i gave it the benefit of the doubt00:43
Macerand tried it00:43
Macerit is HORRIBLE00:43
turboweiIs google nav open sourced?00:43
wmarone_yes, why do you think my TomTom still sees regular use?00:43
FauxFauxturbowei: Ctrl+backspace.00:43
Macermapero is better but still sucks compared to google nav00:43
Macerwmarone_: haha00:43
Macerer.. i meanr wmarone_00:44
turboweimappero is better???????????00:44
Maceroh. read that wrong00:44
Maceri think better than ovi maps yes00:44
Macerstill crappy tho00:44
Macerbut better00:44
ShadowJKOvi Maps Symbian is really nice, and works without internet connection :/00:45
turboweiit doesn't have 3d mode even00:45
ShadowJKOvi Maps Maemo feels like some intern's javascript project00:45
MacerShadowJK: hahaha00:45
Macerthat's harsh00:45
Macerthe interface is so so so bad00:45
Macergoogle nav is .. say address... works heh00:45
Macerbut needs net connection00:45
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turboweiShadowJK: ovi maps maemo works without internet connection too00:46
Maceri am driving from chicago to washington state... so i am sure i will be in the sticks00:46
ShadowJKturbowei, not routing00:46
MacerShadowJK: that is only an issue if you leave the route ;)00:46
ShadowJKright... and the crappiness of gps nav is only an issue if you ever go somewhere unfamiliar00:47
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GAN900turbowei, either ctrl-backspace or install proximityd and use the camera button.00:48
krayonShadowJK: Yeah I was thinking a bit cheaper than that.  lolcat: True, I already have 4 batteries and an external charger.  I just carry pre-charged with me and swap out during the day.00:48
turboweiGAN900:  is that about my twimgo question?00:49
ShadowJKoh, the search in ovi maps maemo is nice00:50
krayonThe way I did navigation without internet is just pre-loading all the maps for mappero and then planning the route before hand.  You can save them too.  And I don't need turn by turn anyway, just want a vague idea of where I'm going and where I am does me :P00:50
GAN900turbowei, yes.00:50
turboweiGAN900: thanks!00:51
turboweikrayon: how do u save maps for mappero?00:51
krayonturbowei: No I just meant the maps download and then you don't need to download them again.00:52
krayonturbowei: I personally brought them across from my carPC which runs TangoGPS.00:52
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krayonBut I think you can do a bulk download from OpenStreetMaps if the area isn't TOO big.00:52
turboweihmm, i have sygic00:53
ShadowJKI havent seen any satnav with nice solution for language issues yet00:53
krayonturbowei: That looks interesting.  Does it require a network connection to do route planning?00:57
turboweiu need to mcopy map files00:57
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krayonturbowei: I don't think they support Australian maps for the maemo version :/01:05
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kwtmCould someone please press Shift-Fn-J on your N900 and see if two characters come out instead of 1?  Also Shift-Fn-K.  That's what happens for me, and I don't know if it's a hardware bug.  I can't for the life of me see anything wrong with the keymap file.01:44
chem|st6h into 0% 5mAh 3591mbattery now still running smooth...01:44
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chem|stkwtm: that is not a bug that is the hardware mapping01:45
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kwtmchem|st: Oh, it does that automatically?  WHy do two characters come out?  What is it for?01:45
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chem|stkwtm: somewhere in the wiki is a roster01:46
kwtmkrayon: How do you do a bulk download for Mappero?  Is there a directory where I would store my downloaded maps?01:46
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kwtmchem|st: Okay ... but is there a reason why there are two characters that come out when I press a single (albeit chorded) key?01:46
chem|stkwtm: fn and shift do different things on the same row so you get two chars one for fn and one for shift01:47
chem|styou mean by just pressing "J"?01:47
kwtmchem|st: I'm not sure if we're on the same page.  To clarify: I've mapped it so that Shift-Fn-H, for example, gives the character "[" (yes, originally it gave the character "(" but I remapped it).  However, Shift-Fn-J gives the two characters "]{" even though I only mapped the single character "]" to Shift-Fn-J.  I don't know why the "{" comes out.01:48
chem|stit is like you cannot press F1-F4 at the same time on most desktop keyboards01:48
kwtmFurther investigation shows that, no matter what I map to Shift-Fn-J, the character for Shift-Fn-K also comes out (even though I didn't press it).01:49
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chem|stkwtm: yes you get two even if mapped only for one as you are sending 2 keys01:49
kwtmI have now mapped Shift-Fn-B to "]" and this works properly.01:50
kwtmchem|st: I guess I still don't understand.  Why does Shift-Fn-H only give 1 character, but Shift-Fn-J give 2 characters?01:50
kwtmI found no other problems with Shift-Fn-<any other letter> other than J and K.01:50
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chem|stthey are actualy the same01:51
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chem|stby pressing fn you connect both lanes01:51
kwtmI found that Shift-Fn-K also gives "]{" even though I mapped it to only "{"; I don't know why "]" comes out.01:51
chem|stso shift fn J gives JK01:51
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chem|stkwtm: that is the hardwarelayout01:52
kwtmchem|st: Ahh... I see, so Shift-Fn-J and Shift-Fn-K are the same key.  Okay, well, I don't know why it was made that way, but at least I know it's not my mistake...01:52
infobotmethinks keyboard is The main input device on PCs, it consists of all the letters in the alphabet and the numbers 0 through 9. Usually, especially on computer keyboards, there are extra keys like cursor keys and function keys.01:52
infobotaw, gee, chem|st01:53
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chem|stkwtm: somewhere in the wiki is a graph where you see the actual mapping on hardware and by connecting rows and column you get double hits with shift+fn01:54
chem|stJK arent the only matches01:54
kwtmOh, not just JK?  i better be careful.01:54
kwtmThanks for the info.01:55
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chem|stfor ctrl+fn HJ01:56
chem|stand so on01:56
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kwtmNo wonder the default does not use Shift-Fn for character entry.01:56
chem|stand V$down01:57
chem|stthere are some connections01:57
chem|stit is a design decision they had to make01:57
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infobotKeytable files and keyboard utilities. URL:
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bennypr0fanehey, can anybody help with my Maemo app manager, it kinda stopped working...02:02
bennypr0fanehere is a log created by fapman:
chem|stfast app manager?02:05
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chem|stno idea02:05
bennypr0fanebut stock app manager has the same problems02:05
bennypr0faneqgvdial seems to have to do with the problem02:06
bennypr0fanei installed it, but it's not in the main menu02:06
bennypr0faneand neither in the list of installed items02:07
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GeneralAntillesHopefully we'll have more popcorn discussion by tomorrow.02:23
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Sazpaimon_is there a way to uninstall microb?02:31
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Sazpaimon_i did apt-get remove osso-browser, but that keeps the /usr/bin/browser executable02:31
* GeneralAntilles *facepalms* @ "I think one thing that I would like to do is to start scheduling a phone conference TSG"02:35
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Sazpaimon_well uninstalling microb made the OS go through a crazy reboot recycle03:20
SpeedEvilMicrob is a watchdogged process03:22
SpeedEvilIf it can't start, it will reboot03:22
SpeedEvilSorry - I diddn't catch you saying that earlier03:22
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Jademicrob is watchdogged? why would they think that's a good idea03:23
timeless_w7ipjade: do you like sms?03:24
timeless_w7ipbecause it uses microb03:24
timeless_w7ipwhy would anyone want to support sms?03:24
* timeless_w7ip has no idea03:24
timeless_w7ipmaybe you prefer gtalk and friends?03:24
Jadesms uses microb?03:24
timeless_w7ipsame thing.03:25
Jadewell i rarely use sms myself03:25
Jadeor even phone calls03:25
Jadeskype is pretty handy03:25
timeless_w7ipConversations uses microb03:25
timeless_w7ipsomething needs to render your conversations03:25
Jadewhy would they think that's a good idea03:25
timeless_w7ipwould you prefer GtkHtml?03:25
timeless_w7ipand please realize i'm >< close to calling you an idiot and going to sleep03:25
timeless_w7ipmicrob is part of the platform03:26
timeless_w7ipand it makes sense to use it03:26
timeless_w7ipthat's part of what it means to be in a platform03:26
timeless_w7ipthe same way that windows uses MSHTML all over the place03:26
timeless_w7ipthe same way that OS X uses WebKit all over the place03:26
timeless_w7ipeveryone needs something which can fluidly render content03:26
timeless_w7iptraditional toolkits fail miserably at this03:26
timeless_w7ipotoh web browsers are *designed* for this03:27
timeless_w7ipthe web browser for the n900 was microb03:27
timeless_w7ipand thus it was the *obvious* choice for use in the rest of the platform03:27
timeless_w7ipit also is not a bad agent for such a task03:27
timeless_w7ipnow please apologize to everyone who worked hard to deliver the product you hold in your hands03:27
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Jadei see03:32
* timeless_w7ip is waiting for something more than "i see"03:32
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Jadei was only wondering why they made it be like it is03:33
timeless_w7ipplease watch your tone03:33
timeless_w7ipa statement like "why would X be a good idea" is naturally interpretted as a sarcastic insult03:34
timeless_w7ipyou still owe the team an apology03:34
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Sazpaimon_[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Microb is a watchdogged process03:45
Sazpaimon_[21:22] <SpeedEvil> If it can't start, it will reboot03:45
Sazpaimon_shame, imo opera and firefox make microb useless03:46
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timeless_w7ipi use both and find myself switching back to microb regularly03:52
timeless_w7ipsimilarly, i use a bunch of browsers on os x and w7 and i tend to fall back to the native browsers there too03:52
timeless_w7ipas for life guarding, you have root on these devices03:52
timeless_w7ipyou're free to totally fsck them up any way you like03:52
timeless_w7ipand we're free to ignore you when you brick them03:52
timeless_w7ipyou can remove life guarding03:53
timeless_w7ipyou can also delete the cellular stack if you try hard enough03:53
psycho_oreosfennec is slow, opera can't play flash, go figure03:53
timeless_w7ipfennec ootb doesn't do flash either..03:53
timeless_w7ipbut again, you're welcome to use them03:53
timeless_w7ipthe latest opera is shiny03:53
psycho_oreosyeah with hacks it can, that's something I'll need to do03:53
* timeless_w7ip likes its scroll to top/scroll to bottom feature03:53
timeless_w7ipoh, iirc it's just pref'd off03:54
timeless_w7ipbut that's part of <ootb> (out of the box)03:54
timeless_w7ipthe story wrt opera and flash is quite sad actually03:54
timeless_w7ipnokia made a mess of flash-opera in maemo03:54
psycho_oreosthere's huge threads discussing about flash notably too03:55
timeless_w7ipwhen nokia initially developed the 770, it wanted everything to be gtk based03:55
timeless_w7ipso it insisted that opera provide a gtk wrapper for opera03:55
Sazpaimon_so like03:55
Sazpaimon_all my catalogs are gone03:55
timeless_w7ipin doing that, nokia somehow managed to construct something where one needed a custom flash which didn't play well with normal browsers03:55
timeless_w7ipsazpaimon: you do not have my sympathy03:55
Sazpaimon_/etc/apt/sources.list is empty03:56
Sazpaimon_what gives03:56
timeless_w7ipthat's not how apt works03:56
timeless_w7ipgo read man apt03:56
timeless_w7ipor something03:56
VenemoSazpaimon_, see /etc/apt/sources.list.d/03:56
timeless_w7ipmaybe man sources.list.d03:56
psycho_oreosnot all repos are listed there too03:56
Sazpaimon_I'm used to vanilla debian where I only use the former03:57
Sazpaimon_okay, well that's populated, but my catalog list is showing up empty, and nothing is showing in the application manager..03:57
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infoboti guess flashing is
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turboweitimeless_w7ipsimilarly, i use a bunch of browsers on os x and w7 and i tend to fall back to the native browsers there too // ROFLMAO04:29
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: (kwtm, meh): - courtesy me04:31
turboweiI guess timeless loves IE04:33
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turboweiand it is stupid to think sms relies on usr bin browser binary04:35
turboweiit relies on library that microb uses04:36
turbowei*also* uses04:36
turboweimicrob doesnt support html504:38
turboweiand it is ugly as hell04:38
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turboweiI am loving opera1104:39
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timeless_w7ipturbowei: ie9 is great04:48
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timeless_w7ipand i'm loving that ms is trying to bury ie604:48
timeless_w7ipturbowei: it relies on /usr/sbin/browserd04:49
timeless_w7ipand 'html5' isn't one thing04:49
timeless_w7ipit's a set of evolving standards04:49
timeless_w7ipand you're an idiot.04:49
timeless_w7ipit's unfortunate that microb isn't being updated04:50
timeless_w7ipbut that's not the fault of the engineers who made microb04:50
timeless_w7ipthat's a management decision about which we have little control04:50
timeless_w7ipturbowei: note that microb=browserd04:51
timeless_w7ipusr-bin-browser is tablet-browser-ui04:51
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turboweiyou dont need to run IE at all on w704:53
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Sazpaimon_so I set the upper limit of my power kernel to 1100, and load a cpu intensive flash file, it goes to 1100 briefly, but then dips to 250mhz even when the flash is using 100 cpu06:09
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DocScrutinizerSazpaimon_: and?06:19
Sazpaimon_well, why isn't power management setting the frequency when its needed06:20
DocScrutinizer(not asking why you think Ocing to 1100 would be anything near a smart idea)06:20
DocScrutinizerwhy do you think it's 'needed'?06:20
Sazpaimon_because the flash plays better when its set to a higher frequency06:20
DocScrutinizer100% CPU without any task waiting is optimum06:20
Sazpaimon_i also have savecpu installed which will bring the frequency down at a certain temperatre06:21
Sazpaimon_though undervolting still concerns me a bit06:21
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* DocScrutinizer suggests to also fill some snakeoil into the device, via the AV receptacle06:22
infoboti heard omap-oc is  read that!06:22
ds3100.00% silicone oil might work better06:22
ds3snake oil has too much snake residue06:23
DocScrutinizeryeah, silicone oil might fill the holes caused in chip by OC erosion06:23
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Sazpaimon_DocScrutinizer, if powermanagement keeps the clock at 250 at most times, how is the cpu being damanged06:24
DocScrutinizerby the factor 100,000...1,000,000 faster electromigration during the times CPU runs at 110006:25
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DocScrutinizerwell, maybe factor 1000.. 10,00006:26
DocScrutinizerCPU lifetime is <0.5 at 600MHz, compared to 500 - and the effect is exponential06:27
DocScrutinizerso at 750MHz lifetime maybe is 0.01 of what you get at 50006:28
Sazpaimon_<0.5 of what though06:28
Sazpaimon_what is the expected lifetime of the cpu06:29
DocScrutinizerof 100,000h iirc06:29
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DocScrutinizerat 600MHz it's down to sth like 40,000/20,000 depending on chip build and overall temperature06:30
Sazpaimon_of course that's assuming it's running at that frequency for 40,000 hours straight06:30
DocScrutinizerNB you got no reliable way to readout the temperature of CPU chip hotspots06:30
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DocScrutinizersure that's not inclusive the times where CPU is at 0Hz06:31
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Sazpaimon_or even 250Mhz06:31
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DocScrutinizernah, 250MHz is eating up "fuel" at 100,000 rate06:32
DocScrutinizeragain, this figure is at max chip temp of 95°C, which you neither can guarantee nor probe, as you dunno about exact parameter's of N900 thermal management06:34
DocScrutinizer10°C more and lifetime also is half06:34
Sazpaimon_i think the average user would notice if your cpu is heating up that much06:35
Sazpaimon_maybe I'm giving the average user too much credit actually..06:35
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DocScrutinizerI think that's wishful thinking. Not even experienced EE has any idea at allof chip temp06:35
DocScrutinizeryou can't know of chip temp even when dismantling the device so you could touch the ceramic/plastic around the chip06:36
Sazpaimon_on a side note, looks like xfreerdp isn't in the default maemo repo06:37
Sazpaimon_only rdesktop06:37
DocScrutinizeras - like explaned above - you don't know how much the chip's case is isolating and how much the PCB can dissipate the heat from chip06:37
DocScrutinizerand nota bene hotspots on chip heat up in milliseconds if not sub-ms time06:39
Sazpaimon_yeah you're right06:40
Sazpaimon_anyway, I guess I'll see if I can port this from sid later06:41
DocScrutinizerso odds are each time the CPU gets ramped up to 800MHz for 20ms, you see a bite taken out of CPU lifetime that's like <nominal> / ( 2 ^ ((800MHz - 600MHz)/100MHz)) / (2 ^ ((150°C - 95°C)/10°C))06:44
DocScrutinizer= <nominal> / (2^2 * 2^5.5)06:45
DocScrutinizer= <nominal> / 16 * 4506:46
Sazpaimon_oh hey06:46
DocScrutinizerfor an arbitrary temp of 150 instead of 95°C at hotspots06:46
Sazpaimon_the armel package from debian sid's libfreerdp works fine in maemo06:46
Sazpaimon_no dependency issues06:47
DocScrutinizernobody except Nokia and of course TI know what's the hotspots realy like06:47
Sazpaimon_oh wait, the actual binary needs libc 2.706:47
Sazpaimon_I guess I'll rebild it later06:48
DocScrutinizernow you're free to do the math for 1100-500 (oops that has to be 500 instead of 600 in that equation above), plus any random hotspot temp >>95°C you'd like to assume06:50
Sazpaimon_okay Doc, I get it06:50
DocScrutinizerand this equation is assuming a constant factor of 0.5 for each additional 100MHz which most likely istn't exactly true either, it tends to get worse on more overclocking, like *0.5 for 500->600, plus *0.3 for 600->700, plus *0.1 for 700->800, so 500->800 might be *0.5*0.3*0.1 rather then *.5*.5*.506:53
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DocScrutinizerHAH, looked at twinkle first time since year(s) - still like it07:27
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DocScrutinizerthough my private edition evidently looked better than this smiley party ;-P07:28
DocScrutinizerWTF is "diamondcard"??07:29
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Macergot a g208:13
chxdoes it run maemo?08:18
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Macerno.. maybe meego some year08:20
Maceror maybe in 2020 i can pull the n900 out the drawer and install meego on it :)08:21
RST38hHeya Macer08:22
RST38hMoo Doc08:24
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Macerheh. hello08:26
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maybeArghkeine mitleid für das maemo?08:31
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ebzzryHi! Is there a desktop applet for changing profile?08:35
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ebzzryIt's OK. I got it.08:44
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meceanyone using opera on N900?09:09
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DocScrutinizerhey if you want to laugh:
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Termanagood morning09:36
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AsiQuemece: yeha...using it and its very smooth09:45
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MohammadAGthat cutetube dev is umm.. interesting(?)
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TermanaMohammadAG, lovely.09:54
TermanaTrust you to notice that09:54
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MohammadAGTermana, I hate you :)09:57
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MohammadAGbut seriously, shouldn't he focus on getting a working version out then adding what he wants to that...10:00
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TermanaMohammadAG, mmm, I would hope there is setting to disable that or something10:04
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MohammadAGTermana, same tbh10:05
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ebzzryDocScrutinizer: looks like a troll to me.10:06
DocScrutinizerindeed, a trolls meeting there10:07
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DocScrutinizerhaha, GE warns Japan about salt in seawater may clog the cooling path of reactors - very unexpected new thought10:08
DocScrutinizerwell, no problem as tepco reduced seawater injection after they learnt each time they inject water to core, the pressure is rising dramatically - another really unexpected effect :-P10:10
DocScrutinizerthree stooges, really10:10
TermanaAustralia has no nuclear power plants. Win for Australia10:11
Termana(for once)10:11
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ruskieTermana, but you lot have sufficient room to put tons and tons of alt power stations ;)10:13
ruskiesome countries don't have such luxury and need the higher fuel/power ratio of nuke power plants10:13
DocScrutinizerblock 5 cooling broken, so now we finally have 5 critical blocks \o/10:13
ruskieis this by western news outlets?10:13
* ruskie stopped following after half of the second week and just asks a friend who lives in Tokyo what's the status... and nobody really seem to be bothered with anything10:14
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DocScrutinizerexcept there's no more water in bottles for sale anywhere :-(10:15
ruskiewhy exactly would you need that?10:15
DocScrutinizerdon't ask me, ask the Tokyo residents who bought all of it10:18
DocScrutinizermaybe related to gvmt's recommendation to not feed babies with tap water in Tokyo10:18
ruskiewell japan does a lot of precautionary things10:19
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DocScrutinizeryeah, and for some reason10:19
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rhkfinAnyone have any idea or pointer how to figure out why WLAn doesn't work on N900+CSSU (from ~3 weeks ago). It gets the IP but no traffic.10:20
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DocScrutinizerbetter start early, it's a bonus those 3 real critical blocks take that long until final super-GAU10:20
DocScrutinizerwell, actually 4 blocks10:21
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DocScrutinizerrhkfin: wfm10:22
rhkfinalmost like wtf, ftw and rtfm.. ;)?10:23
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MohammadAG~wtf wfm10:25
infobotWFM: works for me10:25
rhkfinah, I see ;)10:25
MohammadAG~wtf roflmfao10:26
infobotGee...  I don't know what roflmfao means...10:26
rhkfinIt also worked for me for long but suddenly (maybe while upgrading some packages, not sure) stopper10:26
rhkfinI'll upgrade CSSU again & see what happens..10:26
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rhkfinHow to see what happens if N900 gets IP and that's it..?10:31
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yeah, fail. Doesn't make sense, neither to ibot nor to me10:31
infobotrofl is probably rolling on the floor laughing10:31
infobotrumour has it, lmfao is Laughing My Fucking Ass Off10:32
MohammadAG~wtf roflmfao10:32
infobotGee...  I don't know what roflmfao means...10:32
DocScrutinizerman wtf10:33
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* mece gasps!10:36
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meceinfobot said fuck! Banhammer time! Bwuahahaha!10:37
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DocScrutinizermece: Life of Brian?10:39
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DocScrutinizer"He said Jehova!" "YOU said Jehova!"10:40
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DocScrutinizer"They both said Jehova!!!!"10:40
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pupnikwhat's the min pixel height of a finger-hittable row on the n900?10:43
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pupniklooks like... 70 pixels10:44
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DocScrutinizer(don't say "Jehova"!)^^^10:45
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meceDocScrutinizer :D10:50
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: seems to depend on size of finger10:57
SpeedEvilpupnik: I rarely have trouble with the ebook 'open' selecrror on fbreader10:58
SpeedEvilmaybe 13 vertical pixels per screen?10:59
SpeedEvil13 rows10:59
SpeedEvil70 is a bit much11:00
SpeedEvilBut safe11:00
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AsiQuehey MohammadAG, i left pelephone and moved to orange... tbe n900 works better... (it have 2G now)11:20
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AsiQuenow it's time to port waze......11:21
MohammadAGAsiQue, 2G?11:22
MohammadAGOrange has 3.5G11:22
AsiQueyeha... when u don't have 3G reception11:22
AsiQuepelephone works on diferent freq... so i dosn't work there11:23
AsiQueanyway it's a work line... so i have internet... so gonne look into porting waze...11:23
MohammadAGOh right, Pelephone uses the US frequencies11:24
AsiQue*so it dosn't work there11:24
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pupnik i am the slowest programmer in the world11:40
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rhkfinupgraded CSSU, WLAN works again.11:41
pupnikSpeedEvil: 480p height - if i stack fingers up the n900 screen, i can fit about 5 = ~ 90 pixels height11:42
pupnikactually 4 is closer11:42
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SpeedEvilpupnik: yeah - but the centre of the finger...11:44
pupnik   working on that11:45
rhkfinHyy what do you people use to sync google calendar to maemo calendar? MS Exchange sync just keeps failing :/ :(11:45
SpeedEvilpupnik: that seems challenging to touchify11:45
SpeedEvil(based on my experiences of nethack)11:45
pupnikyeah but fun11:46
SpeedEvilpupnik: Also - why does your keyboard have stuff on it11:46
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pupnikSpeedEvil: that's where i wore through the coating11:49
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SpeedEvilpupnik: Ah. I would guess some game?11:49
crashanddie_mount -t reiserfs -o killwife=disabled /dev/sda3 /11:50
pupnikno mostly irc/shell11:50
SpeedEvilcrashanddie_: That's not fair.11:50
SpeedEvilcrashanddie_: One should only criticise after writing a filesystem, and not killing their partner.11:50
crashanddie_I'm not criticising, I'm admiring11:50
pupniki cannot judge as i didn't know the woman11:51
SpeedEvilHas anyone really investigated other filesystem authors spousal death statistics?11:51
MohammadAGError handling in foss mediaplayer, the way it should've been
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MohammadAGshould be installed instead of supported, but meh11:56
SpeedEvilNot found.11:56
SpeedEvilAs it may not be installable11:56
robbiethe1stNot found would be best.11:57
MohammadAG lots of useful error codes, all dumped by Nokia11:57
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lolcatI figured out how to merge contatcs11:58
SpeedEvilDoes it involve a popular blendtek product, and lots of screams?11:59
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MohammadAGMAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_DRM The media item has drm protection and cannot be played.12:00
MohammadAGI thought the N900 didn't support DRM12:00
ruskiemight be for m612:00
MohammadAGI'd guess m6 doesn't use mafw12:01
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: you can't decode DRMd stuff if you don't have DRM protectoipn12:02
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MohammadAGerror handling is boring12:09
crashanddie_Error handling is like wearing condoms. It takes the edge off the fun, but it might stop you regretting things for the next 20 years.12:10
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MohammadAGwhat would be better, "playlist is corrupt" or "playlist is corrupted"?12:12
SpeedEvilI'd go with corrupt12:13
pupnikgimp kills my .png alpha channels12:13
crashanddie_"Playlist corrupted" or "Corrupted playlist" probably.12:13
* pupnik cries12:13
MohammadAGhmm, it might be empty12:13
robbiethe1stMohammadAG: How about "The playlist seems to be corrupt? Clear, retry, ignore?12:13
mecedamn spambot on tmo12:13
MohammadAGso again, "playlist is corrupt or empty" or "playlist is corrupted or empty"12:14
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crashanddie_MohammadAG, "I'm terribly sorry, dear friend, but it would appear I am yet again unable to provide any assistance. You see, your playlist is corrupted, and my creators have not implemented an artificial intelligence good enough that would allow me to make something useful out of the shreds of song names you provided me with."12:14
robbiethe1stcorrupt, in that case12:14
MohammadAGrobbiethe1st, not possible with the Maemo 5 dialog, but anyway, you can just click the item again and it makes a playlist12:14
meceMohammadAG, the ed one.12:14
robbiethe1stMohammadAG: You can't pop up a QMessageBox(I think it is)?12:14
mece"Corrupted playlist" is the best suggestion12:14
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MohammadAGcrashanddie_, you know, error messages like those would make it more fun12:15
MohammadAGmece, what about empty?12:15
MohammadAGit would send the same int for empty/corrupt playlist12:15
crashanddie_empty != corrupt12:15
MohammadAGMAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_PLAYLIST_PARSING Renderer tried to parse a media playlist and it corrupted (or empty).12:15
crashanddie_exactly that "Error while parsing the playlist"12:15
meceperhaps just playlist error12:15
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robbiethe1stHow about this "The playlist appears to be empty. Are you sure you added media to this playlist?"12:16
meceyes what crashanddie_ said12:16
crashanddie_or "Couldn't parse playlist"12:16
mecesans "the" imo.12:16
meceerror while sounds better.12:16
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meceerm no12:16
mecefailed is a better word12:17
meceno error.12:17
robbiethe1stWhatever the message is, it needs to be something -not- 'scary' - something that's not likely to make people post in the forums asking about it.12:17
crashanddie_take your multiple-personality-disorder-pills, mece12:17
mececrashanddie_, I forgot them at home12:17
crashanddie_or try to agree with yourself before typing :P12:17
robbiethe1stIf it said like "Error! guru meditation #110357"... well..12:18
mecewell then I think it's better to say that it's the playlists fault and not the software trying to parse it :)12:18
robbiethe1st"Playlist may be corrupt or empty"?12:18
crashanddie_On on the of the biggest projects I worked on12:18
crashanddie_when things went really wrong12:19
crashanddie_we'd just dump "Something bad happened" to the screen12:19
crashanddie_and that was it12:19
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crashanddie_all the funky logging infrastructure that was available was completely ignored12:19
crashanddie_Now, when a customer spends $20M on a product, out of which, $1M was dedicated to the logging infrastructure, they were kinda pissed when it just died with a silent "Something bad happened"12:20
mece"shit happened"12:20
mecewould be nice12:20
crashanddie_BTW, I love my job12:20
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crashanddie_What's the plural of "value", "try", "entry"?12:21
rhkfinvalues, tries, entries?12:21
crashanddie_you'd think that12:21
crashanddie_however... if ((trys >= 3) && !ok) ccc.qos_node.innerHTML12:21
crashanddie_Basically, this is a guy who's written shitloads of macros12:22
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alteregoIt's not uncommon to have bad spelling in code tbh :P12:22
crashanddie_so when he wants a linked chain (he doesn't use libstd, stl or anything, wrote everything himself), he needs to track the "singular" name of the chain, but also name it to be the chain, in which case it's plural12:23
crashanddie_so when it's plural, he just adds an s12:23
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crashanddie_This, from a guy who tightly controls the compilation process because he "doesn't trust the linker"12:24
alteregoSounds like a right pedant.12:24
SpeedEvilThat pesky linker!12:24
alteregoGood luck him getting a decent job :P12:25
crashanddie_oh he makes well over 200k euro a year12:25
mecethe linker stiffed me for 20€ the other day. I don't trust him either.12:25
crashanddie_So we have this library, called wo, it takes care of everything from sockets to xml parsing and generation12:26
crashanddie_you'd think you just include the header file and be done with it, right?12:26
crashanddie_maybe point the compiler to the right .so or something12:26
crashanddie_not quite, because he doesn't trust the linker, we have conditional compilation12:27
alteregoDo you have to define defines to get certain bits working?12:27
alteregoYeah, that's what I thought :)12:27
crashanddie_well, during the compilation -DSPECIFIC_FEATURE12:27
alteregoThis guy is like 50?12:27
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crashanddie_just under it, yeah12:27
crashanddie_which also means that instead of compiling everything once, and then linking the correct bits together12:28
alteregoYeah, sort of makes sense :)12:28
meceany tmo mods here? could we have a kick/ban/removeallposts for this one:
crashanddie_we compile the library about 80 times12:28
crashanddie_so on my quad core computer, about 9 minutes of compilation for a release (which has -g and -O6)12:28
derfcrashanddie_: It could be worse. You could be using boost.12:29
crashanddie_but it's kinda fun, because he's tired of the project12:29
crashanddie_so he's giving me all the info I want12:29
crashanddie_I completely rewrote the makefiles12:29
mecewhat's with the boost hate?12:29
crashanddie_optimised the compilation process to gain roughly 30% speedup, not bad.12:29
alteregoAre you gonna make it a .so?12:30
crashanddie_And I'm silently, and discreetly, rewriting the whole 350k lines of code in real C++, with inheritance and all12:30
crashanddie_alterego, will see, I'm basically kicking out all the unnecessary libraries12:30
mecealterego, badam-bom-tcssssssh12:30
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alteregoHeh, why? Why not just use Qt?12:31
crashanddie_alterego, I don't see the point of maintaining our own proprietary XML parser, rather than using libxerces or something12:31
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crashanddie_I talked to the CEO, I have the green light to get the guys to contribute to open source rather than maintaining our own shit12:32
crashanddie_The new version, the one I'm silently designing/writing will probably be open sourced12:32
meceI'm actually working with xml parsing in my current work project and it's driving me towards hard drugs12:32
alteregoBut why not use Qt?12:33
crashanddie_alterego, you asking me? Or mece?12:33
mecehe's asking you crashanddie_12:33
crashanddie_Because I don't like Qt12:33
crashanddie_well, it's not bad per se12:33
crashanddie_it's just way too bloated for what we do12:33
crashanddie_there's a reason the guy uses -O612:34
crashanddie_might be the wrong reasons, but the end thought is still valid12:34
crashanddie_for telephony systems, you need very fast systems12:35
ruskiewhy not use ASM then ;)12:35
crashanddie_btw, for the record on a gigabit network, we answer a call in less than a ms12:35
MohammadAG<crashanddie_> The new version, the one I'm silently designing/writing will probably be open sourced <-- you do realize that was logged, twice12:35
alteregoHrm ..12:35
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crashanddie_MohammadAG, yeah, and did I ever mention his name, the company's name, or the project's name?12:36
crashanddie_ok, it'll be project Google.12:36
ruskiehehe ;)12:36
alteregoWell, as long as you have a reason to basically write another framework :P12:36
crashanddie_good luck for him finding that keyword on the interweb ;)12:36
crashanddie_alterego, I won't be writing another framework12:36
crashanddie_alterego, the portions that are valid will remain as the library, the ones that aren't (SIP management? OpenSIP does it fine, XML? Xerces is awesome and fast. Encryption? OpenSSL will do that) will get removed/replaced by maintained and opensource libs12:37
crashanddie_so it'll be like any other project, leveraging what others have done.12:38
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crashanddie_To give you an idea, he wanted to implement PKI encryption himself...12:39
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crashanddie_I told him to stop being an arrogant ass, and to use OpenSSL or nss.12:39
ruskieor any other ssl lib that's already developed12:39
alteregoThere are a few.12:41
alteregoThis guy sounds like stallman :P12:41
crashanddie_He's more like Sheldon12:41
alteregoahah, yeah.12:41
crashanddie_I mean, physically and all12:41
crashanddie_with the trousers that are too short, the hair cut by his wife every weekend and all.12:42
MohammadAGwhich error policy should I set in case an error occurs12:42
MohammadAGMAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_POLICY_CONTINUE move to next item in playlist if available.12:42
MohammadAGMAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_POLICY_STOP stop playback.12:42
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alteregoHeh, weird.12:42
MohammadAGI'd go with stop, the user can... why?12:42
crashanddie_MohammadAG, ever listened to audio CDs?12:42
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crashanddie_like, in the car?12:43
MohammadAGthis is a video window :P12:43
crashanddie_You know when a song is fucked, and the CD player just goes beserk?12:43
crashanddie_It's nicer when it just skips to the next available song, rather than plainly give up12:43
MohammadAGit doesn't go berserk, ours goes on playing till you pull it out :P12:43
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jacekowskii have no CD player12:51
jacekowskicrashanddie_: do you know that there is ASM XML parser12:53
jacekowskicrashanddie_: and it's like 10x faster than anything else12:53
crashanddie_probably, but XML parsing isn't time critical in most cases12:53
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jacekowskiXereces is slowest12:54
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MohammadAGjacekowski, and lemme guess, you don't drive :P12:54
jacekowskiMohammadAG: i do12:54
jacekowskii should buy a bicycle12:55
jacekowskiand i'm thinking about that12:55
jacekowskiand getting to work on a bicycle12:55
jacekowskibut i would have to wake up hour earlier12:55
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iloni'm trying to flash my n900, flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f works just fine, when its done i try to run -F <EMMC> -f -R, it says "booting device into flash mode" then nothing happens except the USB-icon in the upper right corner on the phone dissapears and the led goes yellow12:56
ilonwhat can i do?12:56
crashanddie_jacekowski, xerces isn't that slow actually, expat is good, but the scenery has changed a lot since I last looked at it, thanks for that link.12:57
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jacekowskiilon: without -R12:58
ilonjacekowski: okey, will try12:58
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ilonjacekowski: tho every guide says i should run "flasher-3.5 -FRX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R", i.e. with the -R flag13:00
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ilonjacekowski: no difference, still stuck at the same point, CMT flash successfully, EMMC flash dosnt find my device after rebooting it into flash mode.13:04
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PoleschHow do I install a .deb file+13:14
JaffaMorning, all13:14
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ilonPolesch: ipkg install <file> i think13:17
ilonPolesch: on a debian system that is13:18
PoleschI'm on the N900.13:18
ruskieilon, ipkg??? I think you're cofused13:18
ruskiedpkg -i deb13:18
PoleschSecond question, is MeeGo useful?13:19
MohammadAGThe N900 is debian based13:19
Polesch"Worth installing"?13:19
MohammadAGDefine useful13:19
MohammadAGIf you want to get involved in development/bug reports, yes13:20
alteregoMohammadAG: maemo is debian based, the N900 is the hardware :P13:20
PoleschI'm just a curious avid user.13:20
MohammadAGalterego, Cambridge right? *books plane tickets*13:20
MohammadAGPolesch, you might find it slow/not suitable for day to day use13:21
alteregoPolesch: we're getting there, I'd come back when DE is available, unless you want to hlep us :)13:21
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Polesch"We are"? Are you a developer?13:22
ilonruskie: confused it is :P13:22
alteregoYes, I am a developer,13:23
PoleschI will come here and blame you for all the future problems I will have with that system then.13:24
PoleschJust be sure to get a call manager into this MeeGo, I hate not being able to block some callers, or blacklist them.13:24
ruskiePolesch, try #meego for meego related stuff ;)13:25
PoleschI paid almost a thousand bucks for this device, just be aware of that.13:25
alteregoPolesch: you didn't pay me a thousand bucks which gives you absolutely no right to get pissy at me.13:26
PoleschOf course I can.13:26
alteregoI work for free13:26
PoleschThat's stupid, don't blame me!13:26
MohammadAGwe're not working for Nokia13:27
PoleschThe hardware is great, the system is mostly the problem.13:27
ruskiethis is a communtiy channel13:27
MohammadAGand I paid a thousand bucks for it, makes your argument invalid13:28
ruskieso wrong place to spew bile...13:28
MohammadAGit's not our problem13:28
PoleschI have nothing to complain about though, so :)13:28
crashanddie_Polesch, please stop trolling, or I'll make you stop.13:28
ruskieyou want to spew bile direct it to the nokia conversations forums thingy...13:28
PoleschOkey, sorry for my ranting!13:28
PoleschBut can I ask an honest question, why would you work for free?13:29
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crashanddie_Polesch, why does the red cross work through the work of free volunteers?13:29
MohammadAGThe fun of it, we're not working for anyone13:29
PoleschBut the red cross actually do get paid.13:30
crashanddie_No, they don't13:30
PoleschAnd the workers at red cross get all their expenses paid for.13:30
nidOtheir volunteers dont13:30
crashanddie_Volunteers are just that, volunteers, no payment.13:30
crashanddie_expenses, sure. But we don't incur expenses, do we?13:30
crashanddie_And when we travel for it, some of us (who need it) get their expenses paid.13:30
PoleschSo you get paid in experience and fun, eh?13:31
crashanddie_Something like that13:31
nidOsame as pretty much every community contributor for any open project yeah13:31
crashanddie_I put it on my CV, and it pretty much got me my current job13:32
PoleschBack to the real problems, I'm having problems with superuser privileges. I tried to install rootsh, but "sudo gainroot" still give me: "Enable RD.."13:32
ruskieinstall rootsh from the repos first13:33
PoleschIs there a general ideology among you programming-volunteers? Anti-capitalism?13:33
crashanddie_not really13:34
PoleschYou just think that we should have a free alternative?13:34
crashanddie_Not necessarily either13:34
crashanddie_Open != Free13:35
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ruskieand Free != free13:36
alteregoI do it for two reasons, one because it interests me, and two, becuase I rely and use a lot of free open source stuff myself, I feel I'm giving something back.13:36
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PoleschWhen I use the command: "dpkg -i", how do I direct it to the file located in the "Documents" folder?13:38
crashanddie_you really shouldn't use dpkg -i13:38
PoleschIt's in "home/user"13:38
PoleschI have a ".deb" file that I'd like to install..13:39
PoleschI just get "No such file or directory"13:42
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MohammadAGdpkg -i /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/file.deb13:42
MohammadAGuse tab to complete filenames13:42
MohammadAGall filenames and paths are case sensitive13:42
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PoleschI can't get the correct path..13:43
PoleschOn the phone, it says: "Nokia N900/Documents/filename.deb"13:44
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nidOthen MohammadAG's path is correct13:45
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PoleschSeems to work now. Thanks a lot.13:47
mecealterego, sounds exactly like my motivation for oss13:51
PoleschI can't access the extras-devel repository though.13:51
crashanddie_ok, Polesch, here's the thing13:51
crashanddie_Use a bloody search engine. We are not your housekeepers.13:52
PoleschBut search engines all give the same result, where I have a problem.13:53
crashanddie_I'm about to kick you out of this channel, understood?13:53
Polesch"Download libxss1" from the repository.. I can't find it in the repository!13:53
crashanddie_Because I'm still not sure whether you're a troll or not.13:53
PoleschProbably somewhere inbetween.13:54
PoleschI keep facing these problems, and they are frustrating for me too.13:55
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* ruskie would suggest reading the instruction manual and wiki.maemo.org13:57
ruskieand possibly searching on talk.maemo.org13:57
mecethere's an instruction manual?13:57
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ruskiemece, amazing isn't it?13:58
ruskieit does have some info in there13:58
ruskiebut I hardly recall what's in there13:58
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ruskie <-- fun...14:01
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jacekowskiilon: ehh14:03
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jacekowskiilon: don't restart it14:03
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jacekowskiilon: combined -> emmc -> then restart14:03
ilonjacekowski: it restarted by itself when done flashing combined..14:04
ilonjacekowski: tried on 3 windows installs14:04
ilonjacekowski: then i found out there's actually a flasher for linux14:04
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ilonjacekowski: made it a walk in the park, made it on the first try :))14:04
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ilonjacekowski: now its reflashed and reverted to my backup14:05
jacekowskiyeah, linux flasher is the way to go14:06
jacekowskiwindows one tends to not work very often14:06
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ilonjacekowski: well, i use linux as my primary OS, dosnt even own a device with win on, used klient PCs when flashing, didnt know the flasher was around for linux14:09
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timeless_w7ipilon: there are two flashers for windows14:13
timeless_w7ipone is a gui flasher and one is a commandline flasher that works just like the linux one14:14
timeless_w7ipthe gui flasher was designed a long long time ago for your average user14:14
timeless_w7ipit wasn't updated to deal w/ optfication14:14
infobotit has been said that flashing is
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timeless_w7ipit's a typical case of people not properly setting dependencies in an architecture diagram such that when someone changes how things works the dependent team is notified and asked to update their component :(14:17
timeless_w7ipironically i'm sure both teams spent a lot of time writing useless architecture documents which no one read14:17
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jacekowskitimeless_w7ip: windows flasher failed14:42
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timeless_w7ipjacekowski: *which* and doing *what*?14:45
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jacekowskitimeless_w7ip: commandline one14:45
jacekowskitimeless_w7ip: flashing14:46
jacekowskitimeless_w7ip: same commands on linux just worked14:46
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macmaNanyone had drlaunch not launch any apps no matter how long you press?15:15
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lolcatDoes the N900 handle 5000 numbers in one contact?15:18
ruskietry it15:19
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lolcatIt didn't seam to work15:22
ruskieany particular reason you need 5000 numbers?15:23
lolcatI only got a few15:23
lolcatruskie: All the common phone sellers in Norway15:23
lolcatIs there a way to have two phone books in the N900?15:23
ruskiedon't think so15:23
lolcatI could import the top 250 as separate numbers15:23
lolcatBut that would pollute my contact list15:24
ruskieget an unlisted number15:24
lolcatWon't help15:25
lolcatSome of these are fraudulent numbers15:25
ruskiedon't you like have some laws for this?15:25
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lolcatI can get registrated as someone who does not wish contact with phone salesmenn15:25
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lolcatBut they can still call me about 'free offres' and such15:25
lolcatSo to have them all in a phonebook would be sweet15:26
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ruskieyou can have quite a few numbers in a single contact though15:26
ruskiehave you actually tried with something like 100?15:27
lolcatI tried it with 500015:27
lolcatI can tell it is FAR less than 500015:27
ruskiehow can you tell that?15:28
lolcatI opened the contact15:29
ruskiealso have you looked at any of the blacklist thingies?15:29
ruskiethose might let you just list numbers and not rely on contacts15:29
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lolcatIt only supports 22 numbers in one contact15:30
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ruskiewell maybe you could use one of those to do so...15:31
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lolcatThere is also one woman, who has called me 7-8 times this month15:32
lolcatWrong number15:32
lolcatNext time I will tell her, if she don't stop I will take legal actions against her15:33
timeless_w7iplolcat: no15:33
timeless_w7ipthere's a limit of around 50 contact fields15:33
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timeless_w7ipit isn't precisely 50, and the number is somewhat quirky because of implentation bugs involving counting fields15:33
timeless_w7ip(it's closer to 47 iirc)15:34
timeless_w7ipthere should be a bug filed by me in that talks about the limit15:34
lolcattimeless_w7ip: it is 5000 numbers in that one. It only shows 22 on my n90015:34
* timeless_w7ip shrugs15:34
timeless_w7ipi manually hit the limit while investigating error strings15:34
timeless_w7ipthis was a *long* time ago15:35
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timeless_w7ipbut i know for i fact i "spent" the time hitting the  limit15:35
timeless_w7ippartially to determine just how buggy the counting code was15:35
timeless_w7ip(yes, i think i even wrote a patch, no i don't think they took it)15:35
MohammadAGprovide a patched binary to the CSSU? :)15:35
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timeless_w7ipi rarely provide patched binaries15:36
MohammadAGI'll take that as a no15:36
timeless_w7ipalthough i have at times been known to provide patchers for binaries15:36
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timeless_w7ipwhen things just have buggy strings, it's easy15:37
timeless_w7ipwhen you have to actually fix logic, it's more effort than it's worth15:37
lolcatIs there a patch?15:37
timeless_w7ipthe patch only fixes the logic to not be buggy wrt the boundary edge15:37
timeless_w7ipit doesn't magically enable you to have 1000 items15:37
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timeless_w7ipthe bug was that you could have X or X+1 depending on whether you had a first/last name present15:38
timeless_w7ipand sometimes you would get or not get an error at some point15:38
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DocScrutinizerbah, fixing logic is easy on binary level, if and only if you got an idea at source level of what's going on. Then just replace one (or maybe 2) OPcode by a jump to your patch which you append to end of binary15:41
DocScrutinizerof course patching ELFs isn't *that* easy15:41
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DocScrutinizeras ELF isn't a plain binary format like that errr .bin? .cmd? .com?15:42
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timeless_w7ipdoc: it helps if you understand the opcodes for the relevant format15:45
timeless_w7ipi can do that for x86 (for basic ops)15:45
timeless_w7ipi haven't wasted my time for arm15:45
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DocScrutinizergcc intermediate asm listings sometimes are mad useful15:45
DocScrutinizeralso quite entertaining every now and then15:46
timeless_w7ipyour definition and my definition of 'useful' diverge somewhere before <here>15:47
* timeless_w7ip is trying to decide how to count bugs15:47
timeless_w7ipin case you want to play along15:47
DocScrutinizerwhen a 150char c++ line gets reduced to 40 char asm and ~6bytes opcode15:47
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DocScrutinizeror a simple case statement blows up to 20kb of NOP plus 3 labels for the 3 cases ;-P15:49
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DocScrutinizer(seen that in a brainfsckd modula comiler's asm listing)15:49
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DocScrutinizercase X in 1) bla;; 20000) blub;; *) null;; esac15:51
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DocScrutinizer-> 20k of jump landing zone list, with mostly catchall redirects for the *) case15:52
DocScrutinizerexcept for first and last entry15:52
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: code caves15:54
DocScrutinizerof course each of the 20k entries been a full size JMP <abs_addr> opcode, so sth like 3 byte ot that machine15:54
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: there are always some non used spaces in binaries15:54
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's even more fun if you modify binary by calculating all opcodes and addresses by hand15:55
DocScrutinizerin Germany we call that Soda-bytes "Die sind einfach So Da"15:55
jacekowskilike i did with fmtxd 1.315:55
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: (calculate by hand) that's how I started coding15:55
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ilontimeless_w7ip: i used the CLI-flasher for windows, and no, it dosnt have the same options.15:57
ilontimeless_w7ip: the win CLI-flasher dosnt seems to be handeling the -R (reboot) option as it should15:57
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DocScrutinizerilon: that's not a bug, that's a feature. The -R option is BS and cruft and you usually don't want it. See15:59
infobothmm... flashing is
ilonDocScrutinizer: well, it was the reboot option (on OFF) that made my flash to success.16:00
DocScrutinizererrrr wut?16:00
ilonDocScrutinizer: for some reason, with the same options, the windows CLI-flasher failed, the linux one didnt.16:01
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ilonDocScrutinizer: would reflash it just to find out EXACTLY what went wrong in windows, if this wasnt my primary phone16:02
DocScrutinizerfor some reason the -R is dangerous, as you MUST NOT rebot after flashing the rootfs before flashing eMMC (if you opt for that particular sequence)16:02
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.16:02
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fluxsoo.. what is the definition "to be"?16:03
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ilonDocScrutinizer: yeah, and for some reason, leaving out the -R on win CLI-flash didnt work, while using the linux-flasher worked.16:03
DocScrutinizerilon: you know the story of the scared little boy who kicked a powerline pole and same moment the whole town suffered a blackout?16:04
ilonDocScrutinizer: spare me the stories :)16:05
DocScrutinizerwell, maybe too metaphoric. So here you are: mere incidence16:05
ilonDocScrutinizer: tried every suggested approach with win CLI-flasher, none worked.16:05
ilonDocScrutinizer: what would you say was the problem then?16:06
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DocScrutinizeryeah, that win that fscks up flashing, but not the flasher as such16:06
ilonmight be16:06
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DocScrutinizernokiasuite been installed and driver get in the way - common failure path16:06
ilonDocScrutinizer: no pcsuite installed, only drivers are the one chipped with flasher16:07
DocScrutinizerflasher is known to break when USB got hijacked by the nokiasuite drivers16:07
ilonDocScrutinizer: tried the flasher in a virtualbox aswell, after the os-flash the phone dosnt come back (got a tail -f /var/log/messages), only reported a USB disconnect after successfully flashing16:08
DocScrutinizerthere are other failure pathes, but honestly lackking win here (actually all redmond crap) I can't really comment on it16:08
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DocScrutinizerilon: toldya -R after rootfs(OS) flash is dangerous16:10
ilonDocScrutinizer: same resoult w/o -R16:10
DocScrutinizerredmond virus16:11
ilonyeah, probably16:11
iloni blame canada16:11
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DocScrutinizerduh, winlabs moved?16:11
DocScrutinizerthought M$ is redmond still16:11
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ilonhow does the policychange at Nokia affect their development of maemo? did they stoped it completly?16:13
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timeless_w7ipmaemo was dead ages ago :)16:13
timeless_w7ipmaemo became meego16:13
timeless_w7ipand meego isn't dead16:14
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SpeedEvilIt's just pining for the fjoords.16:14
ilontimeless_w7ip: ages would be a little longer than reality, PR1.3 wasnt that long ago16:14
timeless_w7ipilon: um...16:15
timeless_w7ippr1.3 took its sweet time getting into your hands16:16
timeless_w7ipbut that doesn't mean significant work for it was done in recent member16:16
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: but that doesn't mean significant work for it was done in recent memory16:16
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timeless_w7ipmoud: i don16:16
timeless_w7ip't suppose i could get you to use a lowercase nick?16:17
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timeless_w7ipthank you for not shouting.16:17
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* timeless_w7ip adds haha to /ignore16:17
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MOUDtimeless_w7ip: im sorry but no.16:18
crashanddiegot a headache, timely?16:18
* crashanddie plays the worlds tiniest violin, just for you.16:18
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timeless_w7ip(and yes, i realize was going to complain about that)16:19
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crashanddiehah, and I bet you just accidentally a whole coke bottle, too, no?16:20
timeless_w7ipwhat meme is that?16:21
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MOUDso, can anyone help me?16:22
ilontimeless_w7ip: still isnt an answer to the question if they'll halt development.16:22
timeless_w7ipon what?16:22
ilontimeless_w7ip: maemo / meego16:22
timeless_w7ipyou didn't ask that!16:22
timeless_w7ipyou asked about maemo16:22
ilonok, i asked about maemo16:22
timeless_w7ipand i said that maemo's life had already ended16:22
timeless_w7ipi.e. it did not affect it16:22
ilontimeless_w7ip: are you sure about that?16:22
ilonsince they still market phones with maemo16:23
timeless_w7ipdunno, i used to work for maemo devices16:23
MOUDtimeless_w7ip: I have my router and I would like to crack the Wep key, how can I do that with my n900?16:23
timeless_w7ipnow i work for meego devices16:23
timeless_w7ipperhaps there's a secret memo from my employer that i missed?16:23
timeless_w7ipit's possible16:23
ilontimeless_w7ip: tssk16:23
crashanddieMOUD, get the injection drivers, get a copy of neopwn too if you want to be lame16:23
timeless_w7ipmoud: same way you would w/ any other linux thing16:23
lcukilon, MeeGo is a Linux Foundation project, Nokia have special focus on the handset, but the project has no bearing on any individual company, infact you yourself could help to bring it up.16:24
timeless_w7ippersonally, i'd use my n900 to find the manufacturer's pdf and then read it16:24
MOUDcrashanddie: could you tell me where I can get those please?16:24
timeless_w7ipthen i'd reset the key and reconfigure the router16:24
crashanddieMOUD, No.16:24
timeless_w7ipthat'd be a much better use of my time and my n900 :)16:24
ilonlcuk: yeah i know16:24
MOUDcrashanddie: ok, thanks for the info btw :)16:24
ilonlcuk: but before the change on CEO at Nokia, they actually participated in the development afaik?16:25
timeless_w7ipaww, you didn't like my answer!16:25
timeless_w7ipilon: oddly, i think we're more involved in MeeGo now than we were before the MS annoucement16:25
timeless_w7ipbut note that the CEO change was somewhere around August16:25
timeless_w7ipwhereas the MS announcement was Feb16:25
lcukilon, I have seen more active open development and pushing for a really usable Nokia handset more recently than ever before16:26
MOUDtimeless_w7ip: did u talk with me?16:26
lcuksee focus on for principle example16:26
ilontimeless_w7ip: well, that pretty much answer my thoughts :)16:26
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timeless_w7ipmoud: yes16:26
timeless_w7ip<timeless_w7ip> moud: same way you would w/ any other linux thing16:27
timeless_w7ipand following16:27
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ilontimeless_w7ip / lcuk: sorry that i made such vauge / errorous questions16:27
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timeless_w7ipapology accepted and appreciated16:28
lcukilon, :)16:28
MOUDI dont want to do that because I need to reset my DSL modem and the company will have to reconfigure it again and they are very lazy. If u call them they'll take around 5 to 7 days to come and reconfigure it.16:29
timeless_w7ipmoud: read the manual16:30
timeless_w7ipperhaps there's an ethernet port and a well known password16:30
timeless_w7ipreally, manuals are your friend, and your n900 can help you get and read them :)16:30
crashanddiethere's probably a reset method, button, pull the power plug out 3 or 4 times, whatever16:31
MOUDtimeless_w7ip: i just want to try wep cracking on my n900, nothing more.16:31
crashanddieso please stop bullshitting us, and just say you want to break your neighbour's wifi network16:31
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crashanddiebut sorry bru, the hot chick living next door doesn't keep naked pictures of herself on a shared drive16:31
timeless_w7ipand i find it rather odd that your model can't properly retrieve settings on its own16:31
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timeless_w7ipmoud: also, your n900 can take you to google16:32
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timeless_w7ipfrom there you can read all about any subject you like, including wep cracking16:32
MOUDim doing that already16:32
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timeless_w7ipmoud: there's an old addage:16:32
timeless_w7ipSearch First. Ask Questions Later16:33
timeless_w7ipplease respect it16:33
MOUDtimeless_w7ip: ok, i will.16:34
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timeless_w7ipsp3000: got an estimated time of departure?16:46
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MOUDis there going to be a new patch for maemo?16:54
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chem|stMOUD: there is the CSSU... but no *official nokia* patch yet16:59
MOUDchem|st: thanks, i'll check if there's any changelog for it17:00
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MOUDchem|st: checking now :)17:01
ZogGwho does understand korean? there is new samsung linux based phone17:02
FauxFauxZogG: Koreans.17:03
ZogGFauxFaux oh right17:03
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ZogGSamsung will ship SLP phones from 201117:07
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ZogGMohammadAG, DocScrutinizer lcuk ^ check the pdf17:09
lcukpdf does not work well through vnc17:09
ZogGit's presentetion for samsung new mobile linux os with LiMo and it's device independent17:11
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ZogGMohammadAG, didn't like it?17:16
ZogGdebian based. but istead of Qt efl =)17:16
ZogGe17 =)17:17
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MohammadAGZogG, I just hate samsung :)17:40
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, looking at hd-launcher's code, it seems you can define the "cached" image that shows up when you click an app in the .desktop file17:40
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MohammadAG#define HD_DESKTOP_ENTRY_IGNORE_LOWMEM  "X-Maemo-Ignore-Lowmem" <-- this is new17:42
MohammadAGand #define HD_DESKTOP_ENTRY_SWITCHER_ICON  "X-Maemo-Switcher-Icon" o_O17:42
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MohammadAGI think you can disable live windows, for whatever reason17:43
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ChoHagCan I make my n900 (temporarily) export a file as its mass storage device instead of the whole flash drive?17:44
ZogGMohammadAG h/qw independent17:45
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, added to
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MohammadAG       * -- @video_fname: Where to look for the last-frame video screenshot17:55
MohammadAG       *                  for this application.  Deduced from some property17:55
MohammadAG       *                  in the application's .desktop file.17:55
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MohammadAGriiight, what?17:55
Macerthe n900 is the firefly of cell phones17:56
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SpeedEvilI found firefly generally annoying.17:57
MohammadAGI'm confused, so live windows are actually screenshots that keep on being generated?17:57
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lcukMohammadAG, that is what compositing is17:58
lcukapps draw onto a texture17:59
MohammadAGlcuk, I don't suppose those are being stored on the file system, so why would it attempt to look for them17:59
lcukwhich is then taken and shown on the main framebuffer17:59
X-FadeMohammadAG: Isn't that for the statup splash?17:59
X-FadeMohammadAG: The fake 'look it started quickly' thing?17:59
MohammadAGno, that's X-App-Loading-Image17:59
FireFlylove you too, SpeedEvil18:00
MohammadAGI'm talking about X-Maemo-Switcher-Icon18:00
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Macerbuilt to last18:06
Macerbut can it handle a blender?18:07
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Maceri need to get a case like that for my g218:11
lcukMacer, actually, yit blends18:12
lcukgets better signal afterwards too18:12
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* SpeedEvil checks to see if his submission has been accepted.18:13
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SpeedEvilMeh - no blended n90018:13
lcukSpeedEvil, ask them18:13
MacerSpeedEvil: the n900 would have defense lasers that destroy the blender18:13
SpeedEvilI did.18:14
lcukI think they tried to though18:14
SpeedEvilI submitted the n900 as a suggestion of stuff to blend.18:14
lcukand it was too tough18:14
lcukpublic submission/voting list?18:14
Macerlies! haha18:14
lcukwhere link?18:14
lcuk419 people here would like to see it and thousands more on all the other channels and twitter and facebook etc18:15
Macerthey shouldnt blend them18:15
Sazpaimon_is there a gles equivalent to libgtkglext1-dev on maemo18:15
MohammadAG417, ChanServ and infobot can't watch, they're too young18:15
Maceri am sure they will be rare soon18:15
Sazpaimon_or is libgles2-sgx-img-dev suitable enough18:15
SpeedEvil - link on left 'suggest stuff to blend'18:16
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jaskathey should blend a cityman 90018:17
lcukBecause I do not think it will.18:17
lcukN900 is tougher than any of the lesser devices.18:17
lcukthousands of enthusiasts worldwide will enjoy watching :D"18:17
lcuk(they ask why you want to see it blended)18:18
lcukinfact I might submit another one "Because Macer doesn't think we should"18:18
vldcnstThanks for your suggestion!18:18
lcukaccording to jokes heard, the rest of the tech world would not believe N900 will even fit in the blender, let alone be turned into smoke18:20
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bash`hi all, since a couple of weeks the textedits on my N900 are black (instead of white) and I cannot read the text. anyone has an idea of what happen?19:10
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pupnik_bash`: in the shell?19:12
bash`pupnik_: no, the UIs19:12
BCMMi think he may mean all gtk text entry widgets19:12
BCMMto which i'd say try another theme19:12
bash`BCMM: yes, the right way to explain is that19:12
bash`BCMM: how to reinstall the default?19:12
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MohammadAGjust set the theme back?19:13
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bash`if this helps, doesn't happen with every apps, but only with someone19:13
bash`MohammadAG: unfortunately doesn't work19:14
MohammadAGQt or Gtk apps?19:14
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bash`MohammadAG: good catch, PyQt19:14
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MohammadAGtry apt-get --reinstall install libqt4-gui python2.5-qt4-gui19:15
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bash`MohammadAG: didn't work :(19:17
MohammadAGwhich app is it?19:18
bash`smscon-editor, happen with GRead too19:18
MohammadAGhmm, no ideas, sorry19:19
bash`MohammadAG: ok...thanks anyway19:20
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bash`MohammadAG: I'm reinstalling n900ftp19:20
bash`I disinstalled it recently and it needs more pyqt libs19:21
MohammadAGhmm, yeah, could be python2.5-qt4-maemo519:22
MohammadAGor libqt4-maemo5, since I think those sets styles19:22
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ZevvHi all. Running maemo hackers on a n810, my 'dark grey' in osso-xterm is pitch black19:57
Zevvis there a way to configure palettes ?19:58
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ZevvThis seems to be bug 716420:00
povbotBug osso-xterm dark grey color shown as black20:00
Zevvmarked as solved, put probably not my version20:00
Zevvyeah, exactly, that one20:00
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Zevvgreat bot20:00
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MohammadAGZevv, just apply on osso-xterm's source20:09
MohammadAGthen builds20:09
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ZevvMohammadAG: yeah, I found that out just a few secs ago20:11
Zevvtoo bad i don't have the sdk at hand20:11
Zevvwas hoping for the easy way out, of course :)20:11
MohammadAGNo N810 here, so I don't have the Diablo SDK :/20:12
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dotblankso I heard t-mobile is replacing all 3g handsets20:23
dotblankwill that affect the n900?20:23
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wmarone_it will, the N900 will not have 3G service in the United States20:26
wmarone_that will happen IF the acquisition goes through20:27
wmarone_which will probably take more than a year20:27
dotblankoh ok20:28
dotblankcause if that happened recently that would suck20:28
dotblankbut a year still might be too soon20:28
dotblankas the n900 seems to be last of its kind really20:28
wmarone_yes, it does20:29
wmarone_but I'm on AT&T's 2.5G service as it is, so no real impact for me20:29
Zevvthis N9 gossip, is there any truth in that?20:30
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Zevvstick with my n810 then20:30
ZogGi'll stick with my n910 =P20:33
jacekowskiZevv: there will be n9 but nobody knows for sure if it will have wp7 or meego20:34
jacekowskiZevv: or only meego phone nokia will release is n95020:34
jacekowskiwp7 isn't bad20:34
jacekowskiit's bit limited20:35
dotblankI will have the n900 with the cssu20:35
jacekowskibut less limited than ios20:35
jacekowskiand you can jailbreak it20:35
Zevvhmm, seems that it's so wrong to even need to break your device20:35
dotblankyea thats a bit unnerving20:36
Zevvhaving linux is one of my main reasons for using the n series20:36
jacekowskiwmarone_: why would they get rid of 3g?20:36
dotblankI can develop on my phone without having to get a developer edition20:36
jacekowskiwmarone_: or disable old working transmitters20:36
Sazpaimon_so the android NDK has, and maemo has GLES_CM.so20:36
Sazpaimon_are these the same file?20:36
dotblankwhat if they are?20:37
wmarone_jacekowski: IIRC, AT&T wants to use the frequency for LTE20:37
Sazpaimon_okay, not "same file", but are they both gles v1 libraries20:37
jacekowskiLTE is market ready?20:37
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wmarone_jacekowski: well, they need to roll it out to stop being behind Verizon20:38
Sazpaimon_meaning, can i link an application using when it originally is looking for,20:38
chxwmarone_: maybe. or they are afraid t-mobile will succeed in their 4g efforts and be a significant competitor20:38
wmarone_And, heh, MetroPCS20:38
jacekowskiwmarone_: well, who needs LTE in first place20:38
wmarone_chx: I don't think AT&T was worried about that20:38
jacekowskiwmarone_: plain old 3g can deliver like 20MBps20:38
wmarone_jacekowski: faster wireless data access is a good thing20:38
Sazpaimon_i guess I'll just try it and see20:39
jacekowskiwmarone_: 42MBps20:39
wmarone_that and having Verizon and AT&T move to a compatible protocol would be nice (maybe, if we can get some carrier-iindependent handsets...)20:39
wmarone_jacekowski: right, I believe "4G" is reserved for LTE Advanced or something20:39
wmarone_which goes even faster20:40
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jacekowskiwmarone_: wireless can't be fast20:40
Zevvjacekowski: anything officialy known about the N950 ?20:40
jacekowskiZevv: some bits of information20:40
jacekowskiZevv: not a lot20:40
Zevvwaiting then20:40
Zevvno, I mean: thanks20:40
wmarone_jacekowski: arguing this with me is largely fruitless, since I don't really have any control over it...20:41
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rm_workhey anyone here that speaks french?21:09
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pupnik_je parles like charles21:13
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GeneralAntillesrm_work: yes.21:13
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rm_workneed to know if french uses ellipses21:15
rm_worktranslating a sentence with an elipses21:15
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GeneralAntillesEverybody seems to be ignoring the fact that an architectural decision was made unilaterally (and behind closed doors) by Intel.21:35
GeneralAntillesWhatever the other issues involved. That's a problem when the governance documentation says that shouldn't happen.21:35
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meceGeneralAntilles, which descision? Are we talking about the tracker thing?21:37
Kaadlajkthat mailing list thread is really depressing21:39
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meceKaadlajk, Have an url?21:39
Kaadlajkmece: it is the tracker thingie, it has changed subject so many times that it is hard to link21:40
meceah yes. Last I read on it was the "Nokia was not involved in this decision" comment21:40
GeneralAntillesmece: yes.21:42
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GeneralAntillesThat one's interesting, too.21:42
GeneralAntillesTechnical discussions aside, that's really what worries me.21:43
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dotblankyikes that is scary21:45
GeneralAntillesBut it's not particularly unsurprising given the project so far.21:47
GeneralAntillesMakes me yearn for Maemo. At least you know where you stand there (even if the position sucks).21:47
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alteregoHurp, there hostility from a lot more than people.21:53
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alteregoI think everyone coming from maemo is pretty disappointed and not just us, there's a few other people that felt the move was a bit of a crap one.21:53
meceStskeeps ftw
vldcnstAny idea how to resolve "input/output error" while trying to mount a windows/cifs share?21:56
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wmarone_alterego: are you reading the ! bit as hostility coming from nokia people?21:59
alteregowmarone_: that's the impression it gives isn't it? Or am I missing something?21:59
wmarone_I think it was meant as a not, IE from people not (none-too-subtle jab at the Intel folks is how I read it)22:00
wmarone_and considering Arjan's responses, I'm not terribly surprised22:00
alteregoYeah, I must have misinterpreted that.22:00
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jMCgHey folks, I'm trying to find a WiFi password for one of the connections I've got stored - unfortunately n900's connection manager doesn't seem to have an option to show me the password.22:21
jMCgWhere else can I find it?22:21
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lcukjMCg, walk over to the router and see if there is a little yellow postit note, or just ask the owner.22:23
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rm_workGeneralAntilles: what happened? i missed something, I feel22:26
rm_workGeneralAntilles: what is all the noise about mailing lists and Intel and Meego stuff22:27
GeneralAntillesrm_work: Arjan came out and said. "We're switching to these technologies."22:27
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ProteousjMCg, probably stored in gconf22:28
internetishardWhat's the best email client for maemo?22:28
GeneralAntillesrm_work: basically, Intel is apparently making closed-door unilateral architecture decisions to remove Nokia-backed technology from MeeGo.22:29
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SpeedEvil1So does this mean basically nothing for the upcoming planned 'meego' device - except that any work on those subsystems is now going to have to be internal?22:31
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jMCggconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP | grep passp22:32
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rm_workGeneralAntilles: ok, but from what i can tell, they're changing them to things that are OPEN. so... why is that bad? it's like they're smacking nokia for all the closed-source / proprietary crap they've pulled in the past22:34
rm_workGeneralAntilles: unless i'm missing something22:34
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wmarone_rm_work: nothing nokia source was closed, last I checked22:35
GAN900rm_work, Tracker is open.22:35
rm_workand also ridiculously bad22:35
rm_worktracker is the source of a ton of problems IIRC >_>22:35
wmarone_or rather, nothing that isn't N900-specific22:35
rm_workwould be nice if they could get rid of it entirely22:35
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GAN900The big issue is the unilateral Intel arch decision22:36
wmarone_sure, and apparently they intend on doing so. but it would be nice if they did it in the open22:36
rm_workmoving to a well-known standard like Evolution / EvolutionSync sounds like one of the best decisions i've heard out of that project in a while22:36
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GAN900rm_work, that doesn't seem to be the consensus for MeeGo22:36
rm_workWell, I wish they hadn't switched to RPM, but that was a concern for like... forever ago22:36
GAN900rm_work, again the technical stuff isn't the core issue22:36
rm_workit's not that WHAT but the HOW?22:37
rm_workso, it's not the decisions they made (possibly good ones?) but that they made them without nokia consulatation?22:37
GAN900It's the Intel half of the arch team making closed-door unilateral decisions22:37
rm_workwell, there *is* no Nokia half22:37
GAN900That's not how it works.22:37
rm_workso... yeah22:38
GAN900No, there are two people from Nokia.22:38
GAN900Neither of them were consulted. :)22:38
GAN900People aren't making mountains out of molehills here.22:38
Proteousdamn you GAN900 and your reason22:39
rm_workjust read a post that said it was two people, Arjan from Intel and someone from Nokia, and the Nokia person had resigned a bit ago, so it was just the one guy22:39
Proteouswe are trying to get riled up here22:39
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rm_workGAN900: it was the post you linked:
Proteouswe make mountains out of mountains!22:39
GAN900rm_work, that's the TSG, not the arch team. :)22:40
GAN900There's a major anti @nokia attitude issue emanating from Intel22:41
internetishardanyone have the smtp auth failed on outgoing gmail in the default email client?22:41
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rm_workcould it be that nokia is wtf22:42
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internetishardhow do you merge two mail accounts?22:48
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internetishardlcuk, really?22:50
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internetishardI want to delete the email account, then make a new one, then import all of the old emails (but they get deleted, I think, if the account is deleted)22:50
lcukinternetishard, no I was joking.22:51
internetishardyeah I know, the "really" was directed at the joke22:51
rm_workinternetishard: system mail accounts? IMAP accounts?22:51
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internetishardimap from the default n900 mail client22:51
rm_worktheres an imap_copy tool in linux...22:51
rm_workdunno if you can do it ON your n90022:52
nidOwheres the problem then, all the mail will be retained server-side22:52
rm_workbut if it's IMAP, it's all serverside anyway22:52
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rm_workwhat nidO said22:52
internetishardokay, the reason I'm doing this is making a new gmail account from scratch fixes my outgoing mail problems, while no combination or change of settings on the existing one does22:52
rm_workyou're just deleting and re-adding the same gmail account, right?22:53
internetishardnidO: how do I get it to download all of it again then?22:53
rm_workit just will.22:53
rm_workit's IMAP.22:53
nidOjust re-add the account and all the mail will get re-downloaded22:53
nidOits all still sitting in the gmail acct22:53
rm_workonly POP3 does download&delete22:53
rm_workIMAP keeps it all on the server22:53
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internetishardit seems to be downloading more and more of the old mail22:55
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internetishardI'll check later if it gets it all22:55
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rm_workit should only download the top 100 headers or so22:59
rm_workmaybe more depending on settings22:59
rm_workit will download more when you try to scroll back though... i mean, it is all *there*, just the mail client won't be retrieving *everything*22:59
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rm_workLOLWUT, i had never seen or even heard this kind of thing existed:
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GeneralAntillesrm_work: so old.23:02
rm_workyeah, i imagine23:03
rm_workbut how did i never know it existed23:03
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rm_workwhere was the site that had me and lcuk and a bunch of people talking about the n900? :P23:06
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joga...up to 24 apps?23:08
SpeedEvil24 apps? Unpossible!23:09
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rm_worki feel like i should save that video somewhere for posterity, because that site will probably go down at some point, possibly soonish23:11
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GeneralAntillesAll of those stupid Wikia websites seems to bring WebKit browsers to their knees.23:18
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