IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-03-23

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merlin1991anyone wanna do my ulm paper for university? :D00:38
infobotmerlin1991 meant: anyone wanna do my uml paper for university? :D00:38
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merlin1991I can't help it, but ff4 looks like opera to me :D01:25
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chxmerlin1991: FF was always a cheap knockoff of Opera01:33
BCMMchx: uh, what?01:37
chxBCMM: some years ago i was keeping track of the things FF stole from Opera but i stopped01:37
BCMM"was always"?01:37
BCMMfirefox derives from the mozilla suite, which derives from netscape navigator. which substantially pre-dates opera.01:38
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BCMM(also, it's abbreviated "Fx", not "FF")01:38
* SpeedEvil hits BCMM with a pedantr.01:39
BCMMSpeedEvil: bin dev etc porn opt ok i'm not actually a shell01:39
BCMMif i were actually bash, i'd get p and o in the right order.01:40
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Termanagood morning01:46
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chxBCMM: Opera had tabbed browsing in 2000, Mozilla in 2001, Phoenix in 200201:50
chxBCMM: that's just one in the long list of features....01:50
BCMMyeah, i hate it when useful features get copied by other applications01:50
chxBCMM: of course that's fine01:50
BCMMsimple ideas that get invented in closed-source applications should stay closed forever01:50
chxBCMM: i just found for some time a bit frustrating that people cheer firefox and stun opera while Opera was far superior to Firefox01:51
chxBCMM: but oh well, i no longer care nor i use Opera, I switched to Chrome, it became 100% unusable by now, so I am now on FF4.  *shrug*01:51
BCMMthat's what they get for being closed, tbh01:51
BCMMi left firefox for konqueror01:52
BCMMbecause hte KDE integration is rather nice01:52
* chx shakes head01:52
BCMMwebkit is good.01:52
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chxOpen source is not superior to closed01:52
chxI say that despite being one of the lead developers of a quite big open source project01:53
BCMMdidn't say that, just said that it doesn't help gather fanboys01:53
SpeedEvilIn some ways it is.01:53
chxsome ways yes01:53
SpeedEvilBut in others, not.01:53
SpeedEvilOpen source suffers hideously from people working onthe shiny bits.01:53
SpeedEvilAnd in many cases on _way_ too many people with commit rights.01:53
SpeedEvilLeading to policy decisions being made by one dev at 3 in the morning.01:54
chxWell, it's usually the UI tha tsuffers01:57
chxdesign and open source development do not go together well apparrently.01:58
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message144Hi folks, I am following these instructions to get socat running on boot: . But for some reason, socat is not starting up on boot. Any ideas? Thanks.02:01
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internetishardgood way to have pidgin start on boot? I have crap loads of contacts in the many protocols it supports. (also, why does it take like three tries for it to open every time I reboot?)02:24
SpeedEvilinternetishard: Can you start it from the commandline? If so - use queen beecon02:24
SpeedEvilTo launch a script on display loading02:24
internetishardalso, do you have any idea why I have to restart sometime for my tmo connection to become visible?02:26
internetishardthis usually happens when it cuts out (there is a house I get very little reception in, so when I leave I have to restart it for tmo connection to become visible again sometimes)02:26
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SpeedEvilI'm unsure, sorry.02:32
SpeedEvilIt sometimes does that for me too02:32
nox-last time i saw that switching to gsm and then back to 3g fixed it02:35
nox-(using that mode switch widget or whatever its called)02:36
internetishardah, I'm usually in gsm02:37
SpeedEvilSometimes I need to switch off/on02:37
ShadowJKoh cool. opera browser update for diablo :)02:37
internetishardany idea why it takes 3 or more tries to successfully launch pidgin most times?02:37
ShadowJK(had to wipe .opera to get it to work)02:37
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DocScrutinizerI gather it's not available via my age old catalogs02:38
SpeedEvilinternetishard: strace?02:39
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ShadowJKfor Diablo it's in opera's repo. For fremantle, it's in extras-testing02:39
internetishardSpeedEvil: what's this strace thing?02:41
internetishardam I supposed to check something to see if that's the reason?02:41
DocScrutinizer(connection loss) note that scanning all bands/channels takes lots of energy, so all modems have a strategy to exponetially increase the idle time between scans with no result. This can cause pick up of new connection takes place hours after it becomes available02:41
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yeah - not that.02:41
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: It will occasionally lose connection in high signal strengrth areas.02:42
internetishardDocScrutinizer, so that means I should manually disable and enable the gsm setting in order for it to pick up again?02:42
SpeedEvilonline -> offline ->online can fix it too02:43
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DocScrutinizerinternetishard: if you were long time in an area where no connection was available and now you suspect you got better signal and wabt to speed up the process, then yes02:43
internetishardindeed, thanks02:44
internetishardwhat about this pidgin not starting until I try to start it about 3 times?02:44
SpeedEvilI should really send mine in for fixing.02:44
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DocScrutinizerinternetishard: trying to place a call *might* as wel trigger a scan. Depends on firmware / build/model02:45
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DocScrutinizerbut entering&leaving airplane mode is a sure bet02:46
internetishardk ,thanks02:46
DocScrutinizerfor usual "phones" that'S off&on cycling02:46
SpeedEvilSometimes that doesn't help for me - a reboot is needed.02:46
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: lockup of I2C communication to modem? In OMAP?02:47
SpeedEvilI haven't investigated it as I should02:47
SpeedEvilToo much boring stuff to do.02:47
DocScrutinizerwell, it's not too hard to spot all the processes that happen on a reboot but not during airplane-mode cycling02:48
DocScrutinizere.g modem still gets power even during boot/off02:48
SpeedEvilI know.02:49
internetishardthinkin like a scientist DocScrutinizer, I like it02:49
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: I *am* a scientist02:49
internetishardWhat science do you study?02:49
DocScrutinizerwould be sad I'd not think like one02:49
DocScrutinizerand physics02:50
internetishardWell, I meant experimental scientist02:50
internetishardwhat are you primary physics interests?02:50
lcukinternetishard, he has an advanced diploma in bikini watching too o_O02:50
DocScrutinizerATM dark matter02:50
internetisharddon't we all lcuk02:50
internetishardI'd like to give you some books02:50
* lcuk is a postgraduate02:50
internetishardand ask for tutoring on one that I'm trying to read02:50
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DocScrutinizerI'm wondering why dark mater can't build planets / other objects, like barionic mater tends to do02:51
DocScrutinizeror does it?02:52
DocScrutinizerI tend to think dark mater is a hoax, like ether02:53
DocScrutinizereventually physics will go past that stupid concept02:53
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SpeedEvilIf it does not interact strongly with itself, for example.02:54
Scorcererimo it doesn't have enough density to form smth more than dust on your desk...02:56
DocScrutinizerhow could that be? It interacts with barionic mater even - buzzword gravity02:56
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Scorcererinteracts != has enough mass to form a planet02:57
DocScrutinizerso it must collect inside barionic objects, according to the already existing gravity pool02:57
SpeedEvilIf for example, it repels itself over much greater distances.02:57
Scorcerersorry, it's too late for me to do that kind of talk, gotta sleep02:57
[Steven_M]hi, what are the differences between maemo and meego, aren't they related projects?02:57
internetishardhahah DocScrutinizer, thanks for being smart... One of the books I was wanting to recommend was about why dark matter is a hoax02:58
SpeedEvilNight Scorcerer02:58
DocScrutinizereven if it can't "friction" decelerate itsaelf due to missing interaction, the gravity friction with barionic mater would decelerate dark mater so it must collect in 'real' planets/stars02:58
SpeedEvilMatter is complex because of its self-interactive properties - bonds et al03:00
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internetishardDocScrutinizer, I usually look at this from a history of physical science perspective03:00
DocScrutinizerether, yeah ;-D03:01
internetishardwhy dark matter and dark energy were introduced, and the models and those rationales were based on03:01
[Steven_M]so you guys don't believe in dark matter?03:01
internetishardether was much more elegant that both imo03:01
internetishardor black holes ;]03:01
DocScrutinizerblack holes are a fact03:01
internetisharddamn DocScrutinizer, you're cooler than I assumed03:01
internetishardhow do they work without dark matter and dark energy DocScrutinizer?03:02
DocScrutinizermy avatar look like ass for some reason :-P03:02
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: there are alternative theories, that are not proven to be false though not as widely accepted as hot/cold dark mater concept03:03
[Steven_M]anyway, getting back to Maemo, is the n900 the only phone it will run on?03:03
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internetishardAnd there are alternative cosmic models upon which other theories are based03:04
internetishardWhat did you think about hawkin's admittance of light being able to escape black holes?03:04
[Steven_M]DocScrutinizer: was that yes to me?03:04
DocScrutinizerwell, tunneling is an effect I'm dealing with in my job as EE every day03:04
internetishardwhat EE stuff do you work on?03:05
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: pur heissenberg and event horizon in a glass and stir, and you got energy escaping black holes03:06
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: N900 ;-P03:06
internetishardyou work at nokia?03:06
internetishardlol, not sure I get it03:06
DocScrutinizerno - thank god not03:06
[Steven_M]DocScrutinizer: cool, did you see my earlier question?03:07
DocScrutinizererr, which one03:07
internetishardHow do you get paid to work on the n900?03:07
DocScrutinizernot at all :-(03:07
internetishardDo you work on its hardware at all? So you're retired?03:07
DocScrutinizerI'm following Diogenes' philosophy03:07
DocScrutinizernot really...03:08
DocScrutinizerabout to check a freelancer job to mess up your car computers ;-P03:08
internetishardyou don't seem that cynical03:08
[Steven_M]DocScrutinizer:  what are the differences between maemo and meego?03:08
DocScrutinizerooh, you seem to not know me. You're new in this chan?03:08
DocScrutinizer[Steven_M]: duh. I'd think a lot, and also little. Check the meego wiki03:09
internetishardNo, been seeing you on this channel for a while, but until you mentioned this stuff about physics, I didn't have the desire to look into you03:09
DocScrutinizerI think I've proven about my overly cynical nature several times03:10
DocScrutinizerI know it's bad but I feel good with it03:10
internetishardI'm interested in the possibilities OSS might bring to car computers03:10
DocScrutinizerlike with smoking ;-P03:10
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internetishardany books to recommend about car comps?03:11
DocScrutinizerautomotive is the topic03:11
SpeedEvil##hardware internetishard?03:11
internetishardlol, got it03:11
DocScrutinizerquite harsh conditions, and a unique set of requirements03:12
internetishardI was just curious what DocScrutinizer would say since he said it is a big interest.03:12
SpeedEvilDoing a car PC that is reliable is hard03:12
DocScrutinizerno, not a *big* interest, just a perspective for beer and dognuts03:12
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internetishardwhy is it harder that making a phone that is reliable?03:13
internetishardwhere do you live DocScrutinizer?03:13
DocScrutinizerEMI in a car is way worse03:13
internetishardmy phone works well in cars03:13
internetishard+ better faraday cages03:14
SpeedEvilCar power may vary from 8-16V in 'normal' use, and -40 to 80V under fault conditions.03:14
DocScrutinizernasty surges on VDD, wet, hot, cold, shocks of several 100G03:14
DocScrutinizerinsects, rodents03:15
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DocScrutinizerand you moving at a speed of 130 MPH and make PLOP like an egg if something bad happens to any relevant subsystem03:16
internetishardwhich makes me think of better ways of hooking the thing up03:16
internetishardbetter wiring, etc03:16
internetishardyeah, similar rationales to blackboxes in airplanes03:16
DocScrutinizerthat's automotive03:17
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[Steven_M]DocScrutinizer:  the wiki doesn't really outline the differences, could you or somebody else please outline some of them?03:17
DocScrutinizercar cd players that cheat on components tend to break and fail during some 6 to 12 months03:17
DocScrutinizer[Steven_M]: meamo has closed components (C)Nokia. Meego doesn't (errr *cough*)03:18
vldcnstmeego doesn't?...03:19
DocScrutinizersee the brackets :-=03:19
[Steven_M]DocScrutinizer: ok thanks :)03:19
DocScrutinizerwell, meego was designed not to have, until they ran into xprot, bme, dunnowhat03:20
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DocScrutinizerofono also is more closed than open I'd dare to say. In a sense it's based on NDA'd specs to some degree03:21
DocScrutinizers/sense/sense that/03:22
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: ofono also is more closed than open I'd dare to say. In a sense that it's based on NDA'd specs to some degree03:22
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DocScrutinizerLIS5523 driver also based on NDA'd specs and exploiting only 30% of the chip's capabilities03:25
lcukDocScrutinizer, ?03:25
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lcukcomplain about many things, but from what I know ofono does its job in the open03:26
DocScrutinizerwhile virtually nobody knows about the doubled storage, the full set of ALU and branch/jump and MUX opcodes03:26
[Steven_M]next question, does the N900 use SIM cards, and does anyone know whether it will work with New Zealand cell phone networks?03:26
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: I said it's *based* on closed docs partially03:26
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psycho_oreos[Steven_M], yes it does use SIM cards. It shouldn't have issues in .nz03:27
DocScrutinizeras for example several properties of our N900 BB5 FW version aren't explained in that open wireless specs03:27
lcukDocScrutinizer, it is an open interface into something that has been historically extremely closed - something to be greatly applauded03:27
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I never opposed that03:27
lcukyes, you might have deeper questions, but cmon give them credit where it is due03:27
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[Steven_M]psycho_oreos: thanks :)03:28
DocScrutinizerok, credit to ofono for implementing wireless modem API and some NDA'd stuff beyond03:29
psycho_oreos[Steven_M], it definitely has SIM card slot :) that I know for sure. The latter part I don't think its not going to work. Just be sure to check if yer phone provider uses one of those usual bands03:29
lcukDocScrutinizer, :) writeup your questions about the rest of the stuff officially and in a manner that allows them to be answered well03:30
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lcukand see whether the response is in the same manner03:30
* lcuk is actually going to use this advice for something else himself03:31
DocScrutinizerhmm, I gave up on pushing for e.g. service monitor mode access for BB503:31
[Steven_M]psycho_oreos: will do03:31
DocScrutinizerlcuk: and the problems about our cmt FW version doesn't match the GPS specs in wireless modem API got covered by jonwil in epic length03:33
[Steven_M]Despite having closed parts, Mameo is still mostly GNU/Linux, right?03:33
[Steven_M]good :)03:33
lcukDocScrutinizer, I know all about epic length!  being concise and focused in questions might garner a better reaction.03:33
DocScrutinizerwell, all of kernel and much of basic system is. middleware and apps, erhm03:33
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I've been concise when asking tekojo about ServiceMonitor03:34
DocScrutinizeryou can look up the whle story in this chan's logs as of more early last year03:35
lcuksure, but IRC is not the place to get big answers really?03:35
DocScrutinizerI explained concise and clearly we need neighbour cell list for advanced location services03:36
DocScrutinizeralso need TA and some other parameters were a nice to have03:37
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DocScrutinizertero delegated it to some Nokia guy and asked him to report back *here*. Never happened03:37
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lcukDocScrutinizer, so you have not heard back from questions03:38
DocScrutinizerwhen I asked half a year later, tero said it's not considered relevant OWTTE03:38
infobotowtte is probably or words to the effect03:38
lcukok, so have you spoken on the ofono ML about it?03:39
DocScrutinizernah, as it's not my genuine area of expertise and interest03:39
lcuksure, so find someone who can talk the lingo and see whether they can translate and see03:40
DocScrutinizerand I don't plan to join there and make a name and reputation to earn a similar answer03:40
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[Steven_M]Last question: If you guys were in the market for your first Linux phone, (like me) would you buy an N900 and run Maemo, or would you wait for a Meego phone to be  released?03:40
DocScrutinizerit's simply a function in cmt that's not documented in wireless modem API, so nobody except Nokia can do anything about it, andNokia isn't considering it worthwile, according to tekojo03:41
lcuksure doc03:41
psycho_oreoshoping for a meego phone to come out is a bit of a gamble.. plus there's ports underway for meego to run on N90003:42
SpeedEvilIf I was not in urgent need, I'd wait for the meego phone to be released, and then consider a n900 from ebay if it doddn't suit.03:42
* lcuk sleeps03:42
DocScrutinizer[Steven_M]: clearly buy 2 N90003:42
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DocScrutinizernight lcuk03:44
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[Steven_M]ok, thanks all for your input :-)03:45
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[Steven_M]see you all later03:46
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DocScrutinizer>>Apps developed with the Qt SDK 1.1 Beta are now being accepted into the $10 million (USD) Calling All Innovators North America contest presented by AT&T and Nokia04:00
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pupnik_why does your webbrowser copy the HTML code and not the character DocScrutinizer ?04:04
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DocScrutinizer51meh, DSL down04:08
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Loveable_rougeyo yo all , was wandering if there is an app for n900 so i can edit png icons04:11
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Loveable_rougeyo yo all , was wandering if there is an app for n900 so i can edit png icons04:16
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DocScrutinizerI hate those DSLAM downtimes without any prior notice04:32
pupnik_service downtime?04:32
paulyhey, does the new firefox rc have flash?04:33
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pupnik_in soviet adobe, flash has you!04:33
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ShadowJKfirefox will never "have flash"04:38
paulyhave it enabled?04:39
paulyi remember previous versions had it. i tried going to about:plugins and the plugins menu and its not to be found.04:41
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BCMM_Loveable_rouge: a png icon is just a regular png, with smallish dimensions04:53
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deltwas just wondering on the n810, what are the /dev/mtdblock[12345] and why only mtdblock4 is used (as i can see, for the internal 256mb?)05:13
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luke-jrdelt: they are all used05:14
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luke-jrone is the bootloader, one is kernel, one is initfs, one is rootfs, and I forget the last05:14
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luke-jrmaybe CAL data05:14
deltwhoa... ok thanks for the info =)05:15
deltso that means if i have backup images of each of those, i can put back the bootloader, or the kernel, etc. to its previous state without screwing around with the rest of the partitions, right?05:17
deltso, let's see what we can see.....05:18
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delt... does anyone remember the name of that package that changes the "two rectangles" button for a mac osx style window switcher?05:24
delt(on the n810)05:24
deltthought it was something simple, a word that begins with "T", but it aint there... =(05:26
deltAh, TELESCOPE got it :D sorry for bothering05:26
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: yeah, service downtime - at least that's what I gather from time-of-day and duration, and regular connection teardown05:30
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DocScrutinizerdelt: see /proc/mtd - and don't get fooled, you can't write to those partitions, as they have no proper filesystem that'd help to deal with bad blocks on the phy img05:33
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DocScrutinizer(proc/mts isn't confirmed to apply for N810, got that from N900)05:34
DocScrutinizermtd even05:35
DocScrutinizerwell, now it's confirmed :-D05:35
deltDocScrutinizer: thanks for the info. (that can be expected with /proc /sys type filesystems:)05:36
DocScrutinizerNB on N810 the initfs partition actually is used for exactly that. Not like N900 where it's unused05:37
deltso 0 1 2 3 4 are: bootloader, config, kernel, initfs, rootfs05:40
deltwhich explains why only mtdblock4 shows up under 'df' or 'mount'05:41
DocScrutinizer(...and me wonders why not even the uBoot devels made use of that partition - it looks like it's mad useful to improve the situation along cramming uBoot into kernel partition and uBoot not allowing to configure and store ENV in a usual way)05:41
deltone thing that made me go "wtf" ... was why the default root fs (256mb) doesn't even have support for ext2/3 fs05:42
* DocScrutinizer needs to poke mrmoku about that05:42
DocScrutinizerdelt: it's a special fs that deals with nand bad blocks etc05:43
DocScrutinizerwhich ext* can't do05:43
ShadowJKIt's not a block device. Also, ubifs would perform vastly better on the 32g emmc compared to ext3, if ubifs could run on block devices05:44
delt"nand" as in the logical/boolean operation used with flash memory?05:44
ShadowJKnand flash, yes05:44
DocScrutinizerNAND flash storage technology, yes05:44
DocScrutinizerNAND is alowed to have bad blocks, unlike NOR05:45
DocScrutinizerfor the oneNAND used in OMAP afaik only first 2 erase pages are guaranteed to always be ok - the rest is up to your fs to deal with bad "blocks"05:46
deltso /dev/mtd[012345] and mtd[012345]ro are crw-rw---- root,root and /dev/mtdblock[01234] (no block5) are brw-rw---- root,disk05:46
delt.... all dated 31.dec.1969 :?05:46
delt..or is ls on this thing also a symlink to this 'busybox' thing ....05:47
ShadowJKIt's not just bad block remapping, ubifs has direct control over erase blocks, and can partially write to blocks and keep them open. The emmc looks like a block device, and has minimal ability to keep track of the state of the underlying nand flash, which results in a small write of 4k triggering a 256k read-modify-write cycle..05:47
DocScrutinizerthere's been a badblocks virtual node somewhere that made for a nice competition here some time ago05:47
DocScrutinizer"how few bad block does your N900 have?"05:48
DocScrutinizerNB bad blocks can appear out of thin air during every write to NAND05:48
DocScrutinizerso not even writing back the phy img of your own device is considered 100% safe05:49
delt"how many still usable blocks does YOUR n* have?"05:49
ShadowJKemmc on the other hand just blows up and stops working one day :-)05:49
delti say we use good old tape drives on these. much more reliable05:50
DocScrutinizerafter noticably shrinking in size prior to that point of failure05:50
deltlike in the 70's. :D05:50
ShadowJKtape drives have similar random access write performance as ext3 on emmc flash :-)05:50
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, emmc doesn't shrink05:50
deltif you put it in the dryer yes it does05:52
deltsay you forget it in your pocket... then you do some laundry05:52
ShadowJKYou could make it shrink, but it's often destructive, and always requires use of proprietary vendor tools :/ (and these things are usually so buggy anywway that once they've run out of spares they never recover sufficiently to communicate with again)05:52
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: hmm, maybe. Not sure05:52
DocScrutinizerwhat's been the friggin name of that badblock node?05:53
* DocScrutinizer curses that ... errr. alzheimer was the name?05:54
DocScrutinizerfind /proc/ /sys -name '*bad*' didn't really help05:54
delti think it's "badblock node" but that may be a misnomer05:54
DocScrutinizerdev/ ??05:55
ShadowJKI've killed a few mmc/sd, and I've observed 3 kinds of failure behaviour: a) silent. Card reports no error, data is read back corrupted. Thanks to wear leveling, corrupting sectors of data constantly move. b) Working until accessing group containing bad sector, then card returns IO error for ALL sectors. c) Total hang requiring powercycling after touching damaged block/area05:55
deltum, if it was in /dev that means there would be just one for all mounted filesystems?05:56
deltor am i completely retarded (which is more probable)05:56
* DocScrutinizer ponders to nag to grep it out of chanlogs05:57
DocScrutinizerprolly a bad idea05:57
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: please help me out, it's driving me nervous05:58
ShadowJKI don't at all remember such a thing05:59
delt*sigh* just rebooted the n810 and forgot to unmount the (auto-mounted) partitions first :/05:59
ShadowJKthough on boot you see the badblocks-out-of-factory iirc05:59
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delt"From your brand new 512GB SATA hard disk, at least 37MB are valid after 0 days, 0 hours, and 14:37 minutes of use."06:00
ShadowJKThey didn't observe same failure modes as I have, but the failure modes they saw were nasty too06:01
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DocScrutinizermeh, so I did it, max out CPU at pov.it06:03 is that an impulse tracker module or a domain name in italy?06:04
DocScrutinizersee /topic06:05
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nox-probably more disk than cpu... :)06:07
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deltanyway, thanks for the info guys. cheers :D06:13
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DocScrutinizer but meh06:16
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Macerbad blocks?06:26
Macerall nands have bad blocks. :) my wii has some06:26
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DocScrutinizerbut what's the proper way to list the number of bad blocks from linux?06:26
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DocScrutinizerobviously the linux NAND driver has a copy of BBT06:27
DocScrutinizerso I'm sure shares some statistics about it *somewhere*06:27
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* DocScrutinizer starts to wonder if that bad block contest was on #openmoko06:28
ds3wonder if the debugfs stuff exposes that06:30
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DocScrutinizerFFS, I remeber exactly how somebody posted the "cat fooo" cmd, and everybody went "11 here", "me got 9", and I had 0. But I can't recall the channel nor the foooo06:31
DocScrutinizerthis drives me nuts - chanlog search doesn't help, granny google doesn't help... :-S06:32
ds3try looking at /sys/class/ubi/ubi006:34
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DocScrutinizeralready did. bad_peb_count doesn't sound exactly right06:35
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DocScrutinizeralso that's obviously for ubi, not for whole NAND06:36
* DocScrutinizer <-musing about cat /sys/block/mmcblk0/stat06:37
DocScrutinizermeh, mmc - fail06:39
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DocScrutinizerhmm, bad_page-erase-blocks_count?06:57
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* DocScrutinizer wishes for RL having better semantic tags06:58
ds3write a hook into the mtd subsystem to dump it06:58
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DocScrutinizerthere's been a *simple* way07:00
DocScrutinizerlike one cmdline "cat /foo/bar/doodledoo"07:00
DocScrutinizermaybe the hint with debugfs wasn't that off07:03
DocScrutinizerthough I can't recall any mount cmd involved in that contest back when07:04
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DocScrutinizer~wtf mtd07:09
infobotGee...  I don't know what mtd means...07:09
DocScrutinizerno wonder I forget details 9 months ago07:09
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DocScrutinizer>>The sysfs interface is relatively newer and it provides full information about each MTD device in the system. This interface is easily extensible and developers are encouraged to use the sysfs interface instead of older ioctl or /proc/mtd interfaces, when possible.07:13
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DocScrutinizerhmm, grep -A 40 "OneNAND driver initializing" /var/log/syslog07:25
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DocScrutinizermeh for "hal-device /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_omap2_onenand"07:30
DocScrutinizerI give up07:30
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user__hi people i just got a virtual deb distro working on the n900 throghy08:18
user__easy deb and was curious of n900 limations08:18
user__and wanted to try and get some people to help08:19
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user__makeing the open pandora os working on the n90008:20
user__anyone think its possable08:20
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robbiethe1stuser__: Limitations of EasyDebian seem to be no hardware-accelerated graphics due to no glES to OpenGL converter08:21
robbiethe1stIt's got a software renderer, but meh. No good for playing 3d games on.08:21
user__mm so no way to get an useful port of armstrong linux08:22
dm8tbrit's called angstrom08:22
dm8tbrand I'd expect angstrom to be fairly easy to adapt to the n900. I have it running on the same SoC but different product.08:23
dm8tbrincluding SGX08:23
user__mm but what i wanted was so that it had suppot the pnd ext08:25
user__maybe we can just add support into another distro alrady customized for n90008:25
user__sorry if i seem like a noob i hab08:26
user__have no dev back ground08:26
DocScrutinizerSHR is Agstrom/OE based08:27
DocScrutinizerand runs on N90008:27
user__but open pandora has a custom version tha has support for pnd08:28
user__and thats what i want to run on "08:28
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user__does anyone have an idea on how to that done?08:30
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DocScrutinizernfc what's pnd08:31
DocScrutinizerso dunno if it's supported by SHR08:31
user__what i am aware of its an ec08:31
user__extension that they bulit into the custom pandora version of linux08:32
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user__i just thaugt if we can get an copy of that image and edit it like we did with ubuntu and fedora08:34
user__it can be used on the N90008:35
user__am i wrong08:36
DocScrutinizerhehe  >> TEPCO will provide eternal AC power to systems for cooling the reactor and the suppression pool ...<<
RST38hDoc: It came down to eternal garantees?08:42
user__im going to bed it 3 in thre morning thanks for the help and anyone else who can help please email me at blahblahblah@hotmail.com08:42
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what's a suppression pool08:52
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mecewhat's the status of the openvg branch?09:21
meceerm oops09:21
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* ZogG o/ mece 09:51
meceZogG, hello there. How fares things?09:51
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mecehow so?09:53
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DocScrutinizerup, down, strnage, charm, raspberry09:56
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toggles1up !09:57
DocScrutinizer1 up 1 down09:57
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ZogGmece, have thousand problems =(09:59
ZogGDocScrutinizer, i do not use cheats09:59
DocScrutinizeroops, of course 2 up 1 down09:59
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mecesome weird shit going on with my sdk10:01
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FIQ|n900rm: kan inte ta bort "./foo": Is a directory10:02
meceapt-get install libqt4-opengl-dev results in it whining that it depends on libqt4-dev but it's not going to be installed. When it already is installed.10:02
chxDocScrutinizer: what the heck is a raspberry quark?10:02
FIQ|n900I've always been able to remove directories with rm, lol10:02
meceFIQ|n900, -r10:02
FIQ|n900Yes, I know10:03
DocScrutinizerI've seen first one yesterday10:03
FIQ|n900rm -rf ./foo10:03
DocScrutinizerin my coffee10:03
chxDocScrutinizer: lol10:03
chxDocScrutinizer: you drink some strange coffee.10:03
meceFIQ|n900, what does rm -rf foo do then?10:03
chxDocScrutinizer: truly out of this world :D10:03
FIQ|n900The same10:04
FIQ|n900i.e. prints out an error about it being a directory10:04
meceFIQ|n900, well at least the error message looks cute when it's in swedish :)10:04
FIQ|n900.. :P10:04
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ZogGDocScrutinizer why don't you have feelings =)10:05
KotCzarnyx-fade: ping10:05
ZogGVenemo, hey buddy10:05
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DocScrutinizerZogG: I'm a shellscript10:05
ZogGDocScrutinizer you are skyne10:05
FIQ|n900I used the directory to attempt to do sshfs on N900, but when it didn't work at all, I just scp:ed it. However, the dir borked after that10:06
DocScrutinizerwhat do you think is root of skynet?10:06
FIQ|n900can't cd, can't ls it, can't do anything with it10:06
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: stat it10:06
KotCzarnyx-fade: my package (osc and osc-pix) got uploaded but still doesn't show maintainer field (it is set in debian/control though), care to guess why?10:06
FIQ|n900Performed a df -h, and it isn't mounted10:06
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KotCzarnyfiq: mount |grep your_partition10:07
KotCzarnydf sometimes hides filesystems it guesses as virtual10:07
KotCzarnyalso, ps ax|grep ssh10:07
DocScrutinizerI guess it's a stale sshfs mount10:07
KotCzarnyit could get dismounted10:07
KotCzarnykillall -9 ssh10:08
KotCzarnythen umount10:08
KotCzarnyor other way round10:08
FIQ|n900I actually found that process10:08
FIQ|n900and killed it10:08
KotCzarnykilled it for good?10:08
FIQ|n900is it still mounted?10:08
mecestupid library fail10:08
KotCzarnyfiq: check the output of 'mount' command10:08
ZogGmece, so how is gnash tryings?10:09
* mece gives up and installs libqt4-experimental instead10:09
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FIQ|n900Yeah, it was mounted10:09
meceZogG, annoying because qt libs were messy somehow.10:09
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FIQ|n900umounted it now10:09
FIQ|n900now rm worked properly10:09
DocScrutinizerfusermount -u mountpoint10:10
FIQ|n900why did the error state "Is a directory"?10:10
meceZogG, I'm pretty sure gnash wont amount to anything useful in it's current state...10:10
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KotCzarnyfiq: don't trust anything you read10:10
ZogGmece =(10:10
KotCzarnyerror codes get reused10:10
ZogGanyway i almost don't use java10:10
ZogGi mean flash10:11
ZogGanyway i hate both10:11
FIQ|n900(u)mount as non-superuser?10:11
FIQ|n900or what? :p10:11
ZogGopera 11 looks cool10:11
KotCzarnyfusermount is setuid10:11
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KotCzarnymount could bark at you for being non-superuser10:12
ZogGKotCzarny, than be root10:12
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meceZogG, opera 11 for n900?10:15
DocScrutinizersee man sshfs10:15
mecesshfs ftfw10:15
DocScrutinizer(strange enough fusermount doesn't have a manpage)10:15
lcukX-Fade, if you can find an answer for kotczarny osc problem, ping me I will bring him back to channel or relay as reqd \o10:15
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meceFIQ|n900, maybe it's a translation bug10:16
FIQ|n900mece, maybe10:17
mecefrals, wtf?10:18
FIQ|n900by the way, the "(y/n) y *abort*" problem in dpkg, is it Maemo's or dpkg's fault?10:18
DocScrutinizersometimes fsckdup mounts and corrupted filesystems have strange effects - see the notorious "stale NFS mount" as last rationale of fsck when running into really bad corruptions on extfs10:18
ZogGmece yes, i like interface10:18
ZogGand everything looks good, only if microb was able to get tabs and speeddial like this =(10:19
FIQ|n900since when I used kubuntu (long time ago, on 9.04), it was correctly prompting in own language.10:19
ruskieI'd be happy if I could actually use 4 virtual desktops... not have to switch between apps...10:19
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Venemohey ZogG, sorry I couldn't respond yesterday. I was sleeping.10:21
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ZogGVenemo ьу ещщ10:24
ZogGme too10:24
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Venemook ZogG:)10:26
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ZogGVenemo mece told me terrible things about you10:27
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Venemomece, what things were those?10:29
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meceVenemo, no idea10:35
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VenemoZogG, you liar10:37
ZogGVenemo, i want to teach you a lesson of life, you have to stop being naive and start being bad ass liek DocScrutinizer10:38
ZogGi know russian guy he doesn't know english and he is one of devs of gajim, he uses google translator for translations =)10:40
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ZogGisn't it awesome =)10:40
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* DocScrutinizer charges a 1uF to 10kV, shouts "CATCH!" and trows it at ZogG10:41
ZogGcan't touch me, lalalalallalala, can't touch me10:42
* crashanddie_ sees the cap hit ZogG, and all of a sudden HE'S DANCING LIKE MC MOTHERFUCKING HAMMER10:43
crashanddie_"Capitalism may be to blame for the lack of life on the planet Mars, Venezuela's socialist President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday."10:44
ZogGhowdy crashanddie10:44
DocScrutinizerLOL muhaha10:44
crashanddie_""I have always said, heard, that it would not be strange that there had been civilization on Mars, but maybe capitalism arrived there, imperialism arrived and finished off the planet," Chavez said in speech to mark World Water Day."10:44
ZogGi need ruskie, but he is ignoring me10:44
Venemo~nuke ZogG for being not nice10:45
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at ZogG for being not nice ... B☢☢M!10:45
crashanddie_ruskie, wake the fuck up10:45
ZogGi'm all attention today =)10:45
DocScrutinizershoot Chavez to mars, so he can speak in front of proper audience10:45
ZogGcrashanddie, what the fuck man, there are fucking kids here, so don't use this kind of lang10:45
crashanddie_ZogG, oh, I'm sorry10:46
crashanddie_Well, those little fucks had it coming, hadn't they?10:46
DocScrutinizer~rape ZogG10:46
* infobot takes ZogG behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams10:46
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ruskieI'm not ignoring you10:48
ZogGruskie you are, yes you are. than why do you try to fuck mr wallace liek a bitch?10:49
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ZogGnvr mind it's from pulp fiction10:50
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* DocScrutinizer thinks the shout be a configurable "ulimit" for HTML page size (in bytes). For example it's a pretty bad idea to search on for common matchwords (like DocScrutinizer)10:50
ZogGruskie, have you got version of xmms2 client with separete lines info?10:50
DocScrutinizermeh, *there should*10:50
ruskieZogG, hmm nope... haven't had the time to mess with anything yet10:51
ruskiebeen rather busy the last few days10:51
DocScrutinizerI just been lucky to always have an instance of system monitor running so I was able to kill the process10:52
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ZogGruskie there are few options10:53
DocScrutinizer...just around the time my desktop started to freeze10:53
ZogGruskie or i make new option file ( but not right now) and you would be able to set the way how does it display ( like %artist - %title %new_line %album)10:54
DocScrutinizerprobably a nice way to test swappolube on N900 as well ;-P10:54
DocScrutinizerand OOM10:55
ZogGbut for now i would set it as it should be by default and as you are the only one using it except me, you should decide how to show info10:55
* DocScrutinizer cackles satanically while opening microB on t90010:56
ZogGif onlyu mircoB was opensource10:56
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ZogGVenemo, btw i would need some explanation on code you did when you and i both have time, ok?10:57
VenemoZogG, ok.10:58
VenemoI gotta go now10:58
ruskieZogG, hmm no split between artist and title10:59
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ZogGruskie wqhat you mean split?10:59
ruskieon separate line10:59
ruskieline1: title11:00
ruskieline2: artist11:00
ruskieline3: album11:00
DocScrutinizerhehe, now this might take some time11:00
ZogGyou want them all to be separete lines?11:00
ZogGruskie, are you sure, for now its line1: artist -title (in bold) line2: [album]11:00
ruskieyup I'm sure11:01
ZogGi want to do as well ["album" year]11:01
* DocScrutinizer watches htop and giggles11:01
DocScrutinizer240 swp11:01
ruskiebecause long artist name - long track name means that it'll either scroll or be cut off and I don't like either11:01
ZogGruskie, ok, i'll change it, but i don't think it's an a good idea11:01
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ZogGruskie, how long it can be? =)11:02
DocScrutinizeraaah, already nonresponsive11:02
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ruskieZogG, example: Protricity - Mega Man X Brainsick Metal OC ReMix11:03
ZogGhmm, how does other players handle it?11:04
DocScrutinizerhaha, "internet page doesn't respond. Force closing it?"11:05
ZogGruskie, ok and how do you want playlist?11:05
ruskieseparate tab... with id - title - artist11:05
ZogGok i think i'll do separete window with tabs11:06
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ZogGis it ok?11:06
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ZogGok it would take sooome time i think =)11:07
ZogGruskie portrait mode would be harder i think11:08
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ruskieI can live without portrait mode11:11
ruskieI don't actually use it anywhere11:11
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ruskiedon't really see a point11:11
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ruskieyou're going all out with the functionality I see ;)11:13
ruskiebtw maybe add a volume control as well...11:13
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* DocScrutinizer considers a queeenbeecon button with sudo killall browserd11:16
DocScrutinizerthe 430MB swap never got released even on forcing browser window to close11:16
DocScrutinizerkillall browserd recovered them in less than 5s11:17
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ruskiehmm need to take another look at queenbeecon...11:17
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DocScrutinizerhtop &&
DocScrutinizerif you want to reproduce that11:19
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DocScrutinizerI suggest running htop on a WLAN ssh11:19
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DocScrutinizerand s/joined/and/11:20
DocScrutinizerruskie: I'm more a fan of desktop cmdline execution widget. Less fancy chrome, much easier to config11:21
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ruskieyeah I use that as well11:22
ruskieI looked at qbc but didn't really see much of a prob...11:23
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DocScrutinizerall those background png and colors and whatnot, yay11:23
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DocScrutinizertook me like 30min to tailor it to show a simple recangular unicolor button11:24
DocScrutinizerwithout freakin honeygold background and whatnot else11:25
DocScrutinizerand then you can't copy/clone a button11:25
DocScrutinizerso for 2nd button all the same procedure again :-S11:26
lcukDocScrutinizer, of course it took you that long to make a rectangle!11:26
lcukisn't beecon still oriented towards hexagons?11:26
DocScrutinizeryes :-(11:26
lcukthat is not such a problem tis certainly novel11:27
lcukand fingerable11:27
* lcuk greatly admires that aspect of beecon :)11:27
DocScrutinizerand pukable11:28
DocScrutinizerlooks like **beeeeep**11:28
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nealDocScrutinizer: Did jacekowski ever elaborate on this "DocScrutinizer: but it looks like you may get that data with just at interface"?11:29
DocScrutinizernope :-P11:30
nealis he under an NDA or something?11:30
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DocScrutinizerjust like me, lots of info collected in his head, but no reference footnotes for citation11:31
korhojoadamnit. there's something wrong with my phone11:31
korhojoawhenever it's run out of battery11:31
DocScrutinizerit shuts down11:31
korhojoait takes three pushes of the power button before it gets to the pin code11:32
korhojoanow, do you know how to make it boot in one press instead of three?11:32
DocScrutinizerwhat happens on the frist two?11:33
korhojoaIt lights up, gives me the nokia logo, sometimes even the balls, but then it just goes *vibrate* *off*11:33
korhojoaI'm going to try reflashing it once, see what happens11:33
korhojoaif it still keeps doing this, i'm going to RMA my phone, and hope for the best, since I don't want it to crap out during something important11:34
DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: ever tried to sit it out?11:34
korhojoasit it out? it turns off after the pushes11:34
DocScrutinizerI.E. press once, wait what's going to happen11:34
korhojoai pressed once11:34
korhojoawaited for 15 minutes11:34
DocScrutinizernow that's definitely long enough :-D11:35
korhojoaall it did was turn on for 30 seconds and then just go off again11:35
DocScrutinizerweird shit11:35
korhojoaso now i know it takes two minutes to boot my phone if it's had it's battery emptied at some point11:35
korhojoait's not a power low issue, since i leave it to charge before i attempt booting it up11:35
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DocScrutinizerthat's been my next question11:36
korhojoathis is when it's connected to charger or computer, both result in the same behavior11:36
DocScrutinizeramber flashing?11:36
korhojoayes, normal charging11:36
korhojoai've tried looking at the boot reasons, but since i can't get to them when it fails, eh.11:36
DocScrutinizervery old worn battery?11:37
korhojoabrand new11:37
korhojoai got a replacement phone and everything when the microusb died11:37
DocScrutinizerreflash :-P11:37
ruskiehmm I can never got my phone to boot when connectetd via usb11:37
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ruskieal/ways need no disconnect11:37
ruskiethen wait for it to boot into that minimal system11:38
ruskieand then I am able to boot it up11:38
ruskieI see it does booting since I have fbcon11:38
DocScrutinizerhmm, you give me ideas.11:38
DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: you got multiboot? or backupmenu? uBoot?11:39
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korhojoaDocScrutinizer, backupmenu11:39
korhojoait sometimes shows up, sometimes not11:39
DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: kbd slider closed on boot?11:39
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korhojoawhen closed, doesn't show up11:40
korhojoawhen open, only sure appearance is on the third one11:40
DocScrutinizerwait, you got fb?11:40
DocScrutinizerfb-enabled kernel??11:40
DocScrutinizeraah, that's been ruskie11:41
crashanddie_is it just me, or does the chromium icon look like a pokeball?11:41
korhojoaDocScrutinizer, me?11:41
DocScrutinizerruskie: fb is known to mess up boot & shutdown11:41
ruskieDocScrutinizer, well for me it works well enough ;)11:41
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, paint it red, collect em all!11:42
korhojoawhat's the fb kernel for?11:42
DocScrutinizerboot console msgs11:42
MohammadAGit only reboots the system a max of 3 times, then it boots up correctly :)11:43
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korhojoaMohammadAG, i know that, but was wondering what it does11:43
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MohammadAGmore like it delays boot, and that little bar of battery you want to use for an emergency call won't hold up :P11:44
DocScrutinizerno more emergency calls nowadays - you're on your own11:45
MohammadAGmeh, need to find someone else to prank then11:45
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DocScrutinizer2014 they scrap 91111:45
ruskiefor emergency calls I'd still use a plain old cheapest longest standby possible nokia phone11:46
ruskieinfact I need to buy one of those el-cheapo ones to have in the car11:46
MohammadAGwhich you don't have when an emergency happens11:46
DocScrutinizerruskie: disconnect battery11:46
DocScrutinizerit won't last when inserted11:47
MohammadAGI'd use something that has GPS that can be remotely turned on :P11:47
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MohammadAGhow does one recover a lost, possibly changed by someone else, password when the security question is wrong ...11:48
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: On what service?11:49
MohammadAGWindows Live11:50
MohammadAGit's not mine, just helping out a friend who got their fb and WL passwords changed11:50
ruskieprove them you are you11:50
MohammadAGTried to, that didn't help :P11:50
ruskiesend scans of a bunch of personal data11:50
SpeedEvilIf microsoft was in the UK, I'd - if there was no other way - file a subject access request under the data protection act, to get them to reveal my password.11:51
SpeedEvilOr the hashed password, if that's all they have, then john it.11:51
MohammadAGbut they're not :)11:52
nidOdo they have a secondary email acct, or phone number, linked to the account?11:52
MohammadAGI linked my email for customer support11:52
MohammadAGa day later they sent me this, most probably an automated response11:53
MohammadAGUnfortunately, we could not verify the Windows Live ID account ownership using the information you provided.11:53
MohammadAGand some recommendations11:53
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ruskieI think providing some older passwords and any email addys used could help11:54
ruskieand any other info that was actually on the account11:54
MohammadAGI did provide as much as I could11:54
ruskieafter, I seriously recommend closing all accounts permanently ;)11:54
MohammadAGpassword, contacts, etc11:55
MohammadAGbut seriously, how can someone else change a password without all this, and the real owner can't get the password reset11:55
ruskiesocial hack11:56
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (john) LOL11:56
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nidOchanging password just needs the existing password. not knowing the password needs an alternate method of identifying yourself. if your guy didnt do any of the several things the acct lets you do to secondarily identify himself, hes made it much harder for himself to get the acct back.11:57
DocScrutinizerwhen the account got hacked, all those secondary measures are mot11:58
ruskieno because they keep the history11:58
DocScrutinizeryou're sure?11:58
nidOnot really, changing password only changes password. you need to also know the secret question answer to change that11:58
DocScrutinizerthen that's no problem11:58
nidOand they log all previous secondary email addresses11:58
crashanddie_MohammadAG, tell 'em it's a good time to switch to gmail anyhow11:58
ruskieDocScrutinizer, most of the web services have a) if you delete data we can't guarantee that it's gone11:59
ruskieso either backups or history11:59
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, they did, but they need their messages back11:59
MohammadAGwork and stuff11:59
DocScrutinizerthey will answer GFO11:59
DocScrutinizertheir BOFH admin will, for sure11:59
MohammadAGruskie, how, the security question gets locked after 5 attempts for another day12:00
ruskieMohammadAG, ?12:00
ruskiehow what?12:00
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DocScrutinizer"WUT!? restore a password file from backup, for an idiot user?? C'MON!"12:00
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nidOMohammadAG: if your guy had a stupidly easy secret question/answer, 5 guesses would be plenty12:01
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crashanddie_MohammadAG, BOLLOCKS.12:03
crashanddie_MohammadAG, They didn't have work stuff on Windows Live.12:03
crashanddie_And if they did, they deserved to lose it.12:03
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DocScrutinizerfb!! even worse12:04
nidOjust as much as they do if they put it on gmail instead12:04
DocScrutinizer(though I admit I got NFC what' WL)12:04
MohammadAGfb was ironically easier to recover12:04
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, you've never been to israel have you?12:04
crashanddie_I have12:04
MohammadAGthen you don't know how even big companies can be using windows live :P12:05
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DocScrutinizerhit them again for that12:06
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infoboti heard xyawn is nice coffee12:06
infobotmethinks nice is prime example of SuperJuan, or a good term for GNOME a derogatory term meaning bland, boring, feeble, or just crap. Example: That's a nice haircut. a city in france, or a program that will run a program with a modified scheduling priority (from -20 to 19, where 19 is the lowest).12:07
DocScrutinizertry again!12:07
infobotgood coffee12:07
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infobotyes, you are korhojoa12:09
infobotDo a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight!12:11
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* DocScrutinizer feels like exploiting ~weather12:13
DocScrutinizer~weather EDDN12:14
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2011.03.23 0950 UTC; Dew Point: 37 F (3 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.65 in. Hg (1038 hPa); Relative Humidity: 54%; Sky conditions: mostly clear; Temperature: 53 F (12 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NNE (020 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT) (direction variable)12:14
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DocScrutinizerI bet downtown it's even 3° higher12:15
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korhojoa~weather HEL12:17
infobotI can't find station code "HEL" (see or for ICAO locations codes).12:17
ruskie~weather LJLJ12:17
infobotLjubljana / Brnik, Slovenia; (LJLJ) 46-13N 014-29E 362M; last updated: 2011.03.23 1000 UTC; Dew Point: 32 F (0 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.53 in. Hg (1034 hPa); Relative Humidity: 46%; Temperature: 51 F (11 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the ENE (060 degrees) at 3 MPH (3 KT) (direction variable)12:17
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korhojoa~weather EFVA12:18
infobotVaasa, Finland; (EFVA) 63-03N 021-46E; last updated: 2011.03.23 0950 UTC; Dew Point: 23 F (-5 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.85 in. Hg (1011 hPa); Relative Humidity: 64%; Temperature: 33 F (1 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the W (260 degrees) at 16 MPH (14 KT) (direction variable); Windchill: 23 F (-5 C)12:18
DocScrutinizerso to quote : ITS FUCKING ....ALRIGHT  Better than a sharp stick in the eye.12:18
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korhojoaapparently, I need to: "Call your local travel agency and ask them if they're serious."12:20
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ruskiekorhojoa, did they tell you that your next dirt cheap vacation for under 10 eur you'll need to walk to the destination on your own?12:22
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DocScrutinizernah, you're going to clean out SFPs at FUKU for leisure12:22
ZogG~weather TLV12:24
infobotI can't find station code "TLV" (see or for ICAO locations codes).12:24
ZogG~weather TA12:24
infobotI can't find station code "TA" (see or for ICAO locations codes).12:24
ruskieZogG, it's an ICAO code... usually the nearest airport12:24
DocScrutinizerand nobody knows ICAO12:24
ZogG~weather LLSD12:25
infobotTel Aviv / Sde-Dov Airport, Israel; (LLSD) 32-06-53N 034-46-56E; last updated: 2011.03.23 0950 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 77%; Sky conditions: partly cloudy; Temperature: 64 F (18 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Weather: Towering cumulus clouds observed; Wind: from the W (270 degrees) at 18 MPH (16 KT)12:25
ZogG; Relative Humidity: 77%12:25
DocScrutinizerlesser lysergacid dietylamine?12:25
DocScrutinizerin US it should be called LAD12:26
DocScrutinizernot LSD12:27
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ZogGhow do they even create those code12:27
DocScrutinizerlike it's DNA, not DNS12:27
lolcatI got my phone back! :D12:27
ZogGlolcat, lol12:27
ZogGlolcat, cat12:27
lolcat"Serviced by Arvato. Main fault serviced: Mechanical failure"12:28
ZogGwht those etters stand for?12:28
lolcatWonder wtf that means12:28
DocScrutinizersee wiki12:28
DocScrutinizerfirst is military/civil airport afaik, at least for Europe12:28
ZogGlolcat, the watch in n900 is mechanic and it's not fixebale12:28
DocScrutinizerthe rest is random12:29
lolcatZogG: Well, they say they fixed the mechanical failure12:29
DocScrutinizerit's automatic watch, you need to shake12:29
lolcatOne more reboot-loop (or issue resemblancing reboot-loop) and I get my money back12:29
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ruskiewe have LJLJ and LJMB atleast... the first LJ is where the flight control for the area is and the second is basically the airport specification that goes under that flight control12:29
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ZogGlolcat do it12:29
ruskiewe're small so we only have one flight control area12:30
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Corsac~weather lfpb12:30
infobotParis / Le Bourget, France; (LFPB) 48-58N 002-27E 65M; last updated: 2011.03.23 1000 UTC; Dew Point: 41 F (5 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.65 in. Hg (1038 hPa); Relative Humidity: 58%; Temperature: 55 F (13 C); Visibility: 3 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) (direction variable)12:30
ZogGwe have 2 international airports in whole country and mostly one in use12:30
ZogGsecond is almost not usable12:31
ZogGi mean civil ones12:31
ZogGand i think we have 2 more that are incountry flies12:31
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DocScrutinizerhehe, ICAN was predecessor of ICAO12:35
* DocScrutinizer watches an incountry fly hum by12:36
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ZogGDocScrutinizer, you are computer12:43
ZogGDocScrutinizer is machine12:43
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lolcatIt seams I have a new internal battery! :D13:04
lolcatI hate how they flash my phone every time though13:07
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ZogGlolcat you mean internal the one that is builtin13:12
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lolcatThe one that keeps the clock13:12
robbiethe1stHeh; replaced mine myself with a supercap as one of you guys suggested13:13
robbiethe1stSeems to work... though replacing it was a pain.13:13
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FedoraUserhi guys13:15
FedoraUseri have simple question13:15
FedoraUseris it possible to add same widget on more than one desktop13:16
FedoraUser(talking about n900)13:16
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MohammadAGyes, there's a line to add in the .desktop file13:22
MohammadAGcan't remember it right now *checks hildon-home code*13:22
povbotBug 5371: Allow same shortcut to be used on multiple home screen desktops13:23
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MohammadAGAdding that to the .desktop file of a widget allows multiple additions13:24
MohammadAGthe files are in /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/13:24
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DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: one of you guys == DocScrutinizer13:31
robbiethe1stYea, thought so13:31
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MohammadAGdoes this look wrong to anyone? painter->drawPixmap(r.x() + ((r.width()/2)-(128/2)), r.y(), 128, 128, thumbnail);13:47
jacekowskiwhat is that supposed to do13:47
MohammadAGcenter a thumbnail13:48
MohammadAGor paint it centered13:48
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MohammadAGr would be the widget I'm centering the image in13:49
MohammadAGand it's part of a grid13:49
FedoraUserthanks MohammadAG andre__ !13:49
MohammadAGyw :)13:49
FedoraUseri am not sure i should meddle but shouldn't it be - instead of +13:50
fralsMohammadAG: the Y coordinate looks a bit off no?13:50
jacekowskiMohammadAG: 5 parameters?13:50
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MohammadAGfrals, r.y() is off?13:50
MohammadAGjacekowski, sec13:50
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fralsisnt that gonna paint it at the top?13:50
MohammadAG(yes, but sec)13:50
jacekowskivoid drawPixmap ( int x, int y, int width, int height, const QPixmap & pixmap )?13:50
MohammadAGfrals, yeah13:51
fralsso thats not centered then ;)13:51
MohammadAGfrals, horizontally :)13:51
fralswell say that then ;p13:51
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MohammadAGfrals, you should know I'm working on a media player clone :P13:51
jacekowskiMohammadAG: it should work13:52
fralsyeah but what container you are painting in ;)13:52
MohammadAGcool, now to figure out why the text is messed up13:52
frals+no idea somewhere there13:52
MohammadAGfrals, video window, it's a grid of items13:52
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MohammadAGI should consider using icon size instead of the hardcoded value13:53
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Venemohey MohammadAG, what's up?14:04
MohammadAGhi Venemo14:04
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: could you check
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, :)14:10
MohammadAGwhy isn't X-App-Loading-Image documented?14:10
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MohammadAGI think it's either not there or = none14:10
MohammadAGI meant it's either not in the .desktop file or X-App-Loading-Image=none14:11
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GeneralAntillesThis architecture discussion is so juicy.14:38
GeneralAntillesSakari in response to Arjan: "Just to be clear, Nokia members of the MeeGo architecture team where not involved in these latest decisions of the MeeGo architecture direction (MSSF/Buteo/PIM)."14:39
alteregoI'm slightly annoyed they're dropping tracker ..14:39
ruskieare they replacing it or actually dropping it?14:40
alteregoevolution, is crap :(14:40
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alteregoWell, I think it's going to be there for media, but this is specific to contacts.14:40
GeneralAntillesruskie: moving to EDS.14:40
alteregoPoint is, it screws up mobility and seaside (i think)14:41
GeneralAntillesWell, the big problem seems to be that the Intel-side of the architecture team (i.e., Arjan) just came out and said. "We're switching to these things!"14:41
GeneralAntillesTurns out the governance model wasn't followed at all14:41
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GeneralAntillesIt's all rather a mess.14:47
lardmanThe whole "discussion" is indeed rather a mess14:47
GeneralAntillesOh well, makes for great reading.14:47
lardmanI wonder if they realise the effect they are having, or perhaps would-be device manufacturers don't really care that there's no agreement about core components...?14:47
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MohammadAG thoughts?14:48
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MohammadAG(Stock N900 sample songs)14:48
ruskiemaybe they'll figure it out before they actually manage to sink the boat...14:48
GeneralAntillesMakes me rather nostalgic for Maemo days, actually.14:48
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG: looks fine to me.14:49
lardmanperhaps, they've managed to bail water the wrong way for quite some time now14:49
lardmanGeneralAntilles: agreed14:49
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, that's the open source clone :)14:49
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lardmanMohammadAG: same, looks fine, but where are the 3D shadows, etc.? ;)14:49
SpeedEvillardman: Bail? Try to use a boat as a submarine, more-like.14:49
MohammadAGlardman, I'm planning a QML coverflow for the fun of it :)14:49
GeneralAntillesThey're trying to torpedo the Germans.14:49
lardmanMohammadAG: cool14:50
lardmanSpeedEvil: :)14:50
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: and forgot to open the torpedo tube doors from the looks of it14:50
ruskieI don't really see a point for EDS or tracker frankly14:52
GAN900Turning into Mutiny on the Bounty.14:52
lardmanWell without any hw that it actually runs adequately on, it's all not that relevant anyway14:52
lardmanonce a new Nokia device comes out, or the N900 effort is usable that will change things in terms of my overall interest14:53
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lardmanor indeed when I find the time to get the Tab kernel updated14:53
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ruskieonce they actually come up with a usable gui that isn't a direct rip-off of ios/android/symbian I might become interested14:53
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I ried X-Multiple=true; seems it doesn't work as expected14:54
lardmandirect rip off is fine, as long as it actually works14:54
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ruskieas for what runs in the background... use direct raw data or basic sqlite dbs and be done with it... then anyone can hook into them if so wanted and do whatever...14:55
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lardmanwell there is something to be said for abstracting away some of the basics14:55
alteregotracker is good, allows better data integration. RDF ftw.14:55
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: are you sure this X-Multiple isn't about multiple concurrent running instances?14:55
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, widgets, not application shortcuts14:56
ruskieI wonder when Minimal-eeGo will come around...14:56
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DocScrutinizeryeah, sure, multiple app shortcuts are higher nonsense14:57
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DocScrutinizerexcept of course on separate desktops14:57
lardmanruskie: I wish they'd just settle on something and indeed get the default apps and interface working14:58
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, probably needs a modded hildon-home14:59
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ruskie <-- hmm15:02
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GAN900Always with the flailing about.15:04
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ruskie <-- interesting15:05
GAN900There must be some fun at-work conversations flying around at both companies.15:05
TheJhas anyone tried the spotme app in devel?15:06
GAN900I'm just floored to see architecture decisions coming down as dictates from the mountain top from half the team.15:06
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lardmanthough the fact Nokia haven't got their act together to add someone to the board is a little odd15:06
GAN900People who want to end copyright are fools.15:07
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GAN900Nokia's board and management combine for ultimate fail.15:07
TheJsounds interesting, but im not sure is it safe to install. the documenting is a bit too little for me..15:07
GAN900Jaffa is right, though, that's hardly justification for Intel to treat the Nokians involved like they are.15:08
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lardmanoh quite, I certainly think the Intel pronouncements and general pissed-off-ness are off15:08
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* lardman heads for lunch15:09
GAN900It's fun seeing the true colors come out, however.15:10
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* lardman would like to just see some hw come out15:11
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GAN900Yeah. . . .15:11
GAN9002011s got some high technology on the way15:11
lardmansure has15:11
GAN900and we're still stuck in 200915:11
ruskieGAN900, well atleast to reduce copyright duration to a same level... that atleast I think you can agree with...15:12
E0xN900 hardware is like 201015:12
GAN900ruskie, oh completely.15:12
ruskieerm s/same/sane/15:12
GAN90020 years.15:12
E0xNokia way of thinking from 198315:12
GAN900No exceptions or extensions.15:12
GAN900E0x, 2009.15:12
ruskieI'd go with extension if copyright is for a real person not a company15:12
ruskieone time only extension15:13
GAN900ruskie, violation penalties are out of hand.15:13
ruskiethe original copyright was 14 years with one time extension for a total 28...15:13
GAN900But the reactionary folks who want to get everybody else's works for free are fools.15:13
GAN900Copyright enrichens the public domain.15:14
ruskiesane copyright duration enrichens the public domain15:14
ruskie50 years and beyond is just insane15:14
GAN900ruskie, my issue with personal extensions is that it adds too much legalease and complication.15:15
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ruskiecan agree with that15:15
E0xhow is perfom of laste Firefox in n900?15:16
E0xvs microb15:16
ruskie <-- hehe15:19
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sorry, I can't duplicate that X-Multiple, even for widgets15:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: please can you elaborate which file to edit to achieve what exactly?15:20
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DocScrutinizermaybe I'm killing the wrong process?15:20
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, edit /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/mediaplayerhomeapplet.desktop15:23
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MohammadAGadd X-Multiple=true, nothing else needs to be changed15:24
MohammadAGthen save, exit, killall hildon-home15:24
MohammadAGfyi, killing it a lot resets widgets to safe list15:24
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ok, thanks. works like announced15:29
DocScrutinizerwhat's X-Multiple-instance?15:29
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MohammadAGno idea, noticed it15:32
markinfohow to set default browser on maemo5 ?   I have installed Firefox but url links from mail klient and from Pidgin calls still this internal browser.15:34
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DocScrutinizerwhat's browser-switchboard? A n app?15:38
timeless_xchata disaster15:38
DocScrutinizerI'd guess it depends on URL-handlers set in .desktop files15:39
DocScrutinizermaybe I'm biased while editing wiki about .desktop ;-D15:39
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DocScrutinizermarkinfo:  (unless timeless_xchat hollers)15:41
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markinfoI have installed browser-switchboard changed to other Browser and it works (after restart).15:55
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chem|st.oO(another happy user)15:55
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ( probably needs a modded hildon-home ) sounds like a great mini-project for CSSU16:04
DocScrutinizerchem|st: emphasis on 'user'16:05
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ...though I guess usually you'll get away with QB widgets acting as .desktop app shortcuts16:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yeah, guess so16:07
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: right but don't forget that we try to make 'everybody' 'happy'^^16:11
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: that'S why I suggested to actually implement it into CSSU hildon-home16:11
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chem|styes, a proper handler for default camera - browser - email - 'and so on'16:12
chem|stand none of them16:12
chem|sthildon-home is desktops16:13
chem|sthildon-desktop is on top of the actual 'top'16:13
chem|stand behind16:13
DocScrutinizerthere's no particular rationale in forbidding addition of several identical app shortcuts. You probably just need to bracket a few lines with a if (! get_config_key("X-Multiple", BOOLEAN){ }16:14
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DocScrutinizerand get_config_key() obviously would check the .desktop in /usr/share/applications/hildon rather than .../hildon-home16:17
DocScrutinizerwhich it does anyway16:18
DocScrutinizerin that context of adding app shortcuts16:18
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DocScrutinizermaybe you need to take care to make some unique identifiers for e.g gconf keys, or wherever the shortcuts are stored16:21
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GAN900Bored. Want more exciting mail threads.16:42
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Jaffatoggles: ~cssu16:52
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infobotrumour has it, cssu is
JaffaGAN900: Indeed.16:53
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timeless_n8Hello world16:53
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MohammadAGtimeless_n8, which IRC app are you using?16:57
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togglesJaffa: grazie, i googled, was feeling lazy..17:07
GAN900Really is Maemo all over again. The threads just trickle down to nothing without anything meaningful getting accomplished.17:13
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merlin1991MohammadAG: there's such a thing as ctcp version ;)17:16
MohammadAGmerlin1991, most mobile apps don't support it17:17
MohammadAGat least on symbian17:17
MohammadAGlol, mIRGGI17:17
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tzafrir_laptophi, how do I edit my n900's list of wireless networks?17:17
tzafrir_laptopThere are two ad-hoc networks that keep show up on top everywhere, just because I happen to use them once17:18
GAN900tzafrir, settings internet connections.17:18
lolcatI can't find bluemaemo17:20
lolcatI have extras and extras testing17:21
OkropNickanyone know what daemon responds for Calendar alarms trigerring? It's making me crazy when I miss remind. What should be restarted (i don't want to restart whole N900)17:25
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OkropNickis it alarmd?17:30
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lardmanah, another afternoon wasted doing bitty things17:40
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lardmanI really wish I had an office so I could ignore people coming to ask me questions17:41
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GAN900lardman, earplugs?17:48
lardmanyeah, then they tap me on the shoulder17:48
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lardmanand if I break their wrists I can hear them through the earplugs, so not a useful solution ;)17:49
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GAN900Maybe you should mount a shotgun on the front of your desk.17:53
Cor-Aiwith an quick reales!17:55
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Cor-Aiin case of an zombi invation!17:56
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lolcatThe N900, can it act as a bluetooth headset?18:03
OkropNickI think that I've found this little bastard. After restarting hildon-sv-notification-daemon all calendar alarms (reminders) are working again, so there is no need to restart whole N900 to make them working again :)18:04
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DocScrutinizer51OkropNick: nice find. what's the problem it solves?18:05
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OkropNickDocScrutinizer: it's resolving problem with calendar alarms. after '/etc/init.d/hildon-sv-notification-daemon restart' calendar alarms are working again without need to reboot N900. I'll put it to fcrom.18:07
DocScrutinizer51OkropNick: if the process fails frequently, I suggest starting it via dsme18:07
OkropNickDocScrutinizer: any hints?18:08
DocScrutinizer51dsmetool --help18:08
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MohammadAGOkropNick, I don't even have that file18:09
MohammadAGwhat's NB#116766?18:10
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OkropNickMohammadAG: which file you heven't: dsmetool or hildon-sv-notification-daemon?18:11
DocScrutinizer51a nokiabug?18:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, need the description18:12
OkropNickstrange, I'll search what is that18:12
DocScrutinizer51ps|grep hildon-sv18:12
MohammadAGI meant the init script18:13
DocScrutinizer51hmm, me neither18:14
OkropNickMohammadAG: sorry, my mistake18:16
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OkropNickMohammadAG, DocScrutinizer : it is not service, after kill -9 of hildon-sv-notification-daemon which is here /usr/bin/hildon-sv-notification-daemon all this program was restarted and all calendar reminds started to working again18:17
OkropNickmany typos, sorry18:18
MohammadAGthen it's started by dsmetool by default18:18
OkropNickbut I'm hapy that I know what to restart18:18
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DocScrutinizer51OkropNick: I'd appreciate when you'd find out where it hangs, so we could fix the root cause. Maybe you can do a full ps, even a strace and/or attach gdb, then bt18:21
OkropNickI will be glad, but I don't know how to debug, need some help. I'm just PHP coder18:22
DocScrutinizer51np, but only later, I'm almost biking ATM18:23
OkropNickDocScrutinizer: can you write some sh script that I can run in background to catch this error?18:23
DocScrutinizer51I'll ping you18:23
OkropNickDocScrutinizer: ok18:23
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OkropNicknot kill -9 hildon-sv-notification-daemon but killall hildon-sv-notification-daemon - I have fever today, ehhh - many mistakes...18:32
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GeneralAntillesI guess I should read over the TSG logs from the last meeting.18:47
* GeneralAntilles doesn't have as much faith as Carsten seems to about Imad addressing the arch discussion.18:48
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macmaNwhazup allz18:53
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: ??18:53
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macmaNcan someone enlighten what it would take to make firefox start up somewhere near as quickly as microb does, even if just theoretically? just faster cpu could do it? how is microb so fast, what are they not doing?18:54
fralsGeneralAntilles: I have a hard time taking people saying that the "communication of the decision was excellent" serious on that list as well...18:55
SpeedEvilStart firefox with a blank tab18:55
SpeedEvilAt boot18:55
frals"sup guys we are switching most of the backends, we wont tell you why or based on what but now we are doing it"18:56
DocScrutinizer51frals: ??18:56
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fralsDocScrutinizer: meego-dev18:56
SpeedEvilfrals: you mean current? Or historical perspective?18:56
macmaNSpeedEvil: ive kept it open, but it still feels like it makes the phone lag too much, swapping or somesuch?18:57
DocScrutinizer51hope they switch for the better. esp things like sensorfw18:57
fralsSpeedEvil: current18:57
SpeedEvilmacmaN: yes, it probably does. You can kill microb though18:57
SpeedEvilfrals: Oh joy.18:57
* SpeedEvil has been here before.18:57
fralsDocScrutinizer: they decided to switch PIM backends mostly18:57
SpeedEvil(though my neo1973 was significantly less functional than the n900)18:57
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Just skip to 15:32. MeeGo governance wasn't on the agenda, and so was "dealt" with under AOB18:58
DocScrutinizer51frals: whatever, it's exactly this mindset and procedures that is pissing me off18:58
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fralsDocScrutinizer: yeah... the architecture decisions should really be public18:59
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: kill microb? hardly18:59
SpeedEvilfrals: DocScrutinizer: you can - kill it three times, and it stays dead.18:59
SpeedEvilOr am I confused again.18:59
DocScrutinizer51prollly 10 times19:00
macmaNbtw whats the recommended package to make camera key launch something19:00
fralsand pray to god [diety of choice] its not guarded by watchdog? ;)19:00
macmaNi'm seeing shortcutd19:00
ProteousI could kill it 1000 times19:06
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macmaNawesome, shortcutd does exactly what i wanted19:09
macmaNand proximity sensor button is cool too19:10
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korhojoatook me like five attempts to boot my phone just now19:25
korhojoaremember when i said that it's horrible at booting?19:26
korhojoawell, i recorded it19:26
korhojoai had to go via backupmenu19:26
ZogGkorhojoa send it to nokla19:26
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korhojoaZogG, yeah, well. i've already gotten a phone back from nokia with the same amount of faults that i sent it in with19:29
jacekowskikorhojoa: are these same faults or different ones?19:29
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ZogGsay to them you want n950+19:29
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korhojoajacekowski, i sent it in with a torn off microusb, got one back with bright dots all over the screen19:30
jacekowskisend it back again19:30
korhojoaalso the camera lens is all messy19:30
korhojoai'm just afraid i'll get something inferior back19:31
korhojoaie, e7 or n8 or something19:31
korhojoa"whoops, sorry"19:31
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javispedrowhen I got mine back after they replaced a speaker, it was also all messy and had one key in the upper row with a weird tactile feedback19:31
javispedrothat n900 never exited the repair center.19:32
macmaNdont mean to interrupt, but is there way to assign long-press-zoom-keys to something19:32
macmaNa way*19:32
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javispedronext week I got back an _extremely_ cleaned up n900 with no keyboard problems whatsoever.19:32
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javispedrokorhojoa: so yes, send it back again.19:32
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korhojoajavispedro, oh well. i hope i just get mine back19:35
korhojoait took a month to get it back19:36
korhojoaand i don't understand why they kept the back cover as the old one19:36
korhojoai don't see why19:36
ZogGkorhojoa, javispedro they just mix the n900 sent to repair and sent back to other addresses19:37
macmaNi wonder is the proximity sensor going to fire all the time when the phone is in your pocket19:39
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GAN900frals, if I'm not mistaked, I believe the governance docs concur.19:42
korhojoawow. video quality on the 3710 fold is pretty bad19:42
korhojoaDocScrutinizer51, did you see this?
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DocScrutinizerwhat? 7:30 of boredom?19:47
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bananhello can someone paste me "ls -l /dev | grep video" from maemo device ?19:55
bananmy dev/video0 is gone and i want to try mknod a new one19:55
joga81,2 video0 and 81,1 video119:56
timeless_xchatcrw-rw----    1 root     video     81,   2 Jan  1  1970 /dev/video019:57
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timeless_xchatcrw-rw----    1 root     video     81,   1 Jan  1  1970 /dev/video119:57
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DocScrutinizerhmm, isn't that supposed to get created by udev?19:59
banancant help it if its gone19:59
timeless_xchatpersonally, i wouldn't try mknod19:59
timeless_xchatthat's unlikely to dtrt tm19:59
DocScrutinizercan't hurt20:00
DocScrutinizerdtrt tm?20:00
jogaudevadm trigger or such20:00
timeless_xchatdo the right thing20:01
bananwell didnt work20:02
* timeless_xchat is shocked20:02
DocScrutinizerno video in /etc/udev/*20:02
bananwhere ecactly?20:03
bananto be clear i dont even know when it stopped working20:04
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DocScrutinizer/etc/udev/rules.d/91-permissions.rules:# video devices20:05
bananwell i have some20:06
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bananand i suppose video4linux is the one20:06
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GAN900Jaffa, really is too much of a pain to keep up with all the comms mwkn doesn't keep up with because they're too small or inappropriate.20:18
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JaffaGAN900: Can cover inconsequential stuff as well20:27
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* timeless_xchat sighs20:29
timeless_xchatso, some idiot signed timeless@gmail up for mail from the ronald reagan library20:29
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JakeS3any scratchbox gurus around20:30
timeless_xchatmohammadag : no20:30
timeless_xchatmailing lists should be fixed to not automatically add w/o sending a conf email and having a reply/click to confirm20:31
SpeedEvilMost mailing lists are.20:31
javispedro... specially when the email address matches *timeless* ;)20:32
timeless_xchatjavispedro : sure, that'll work too ;)20:32
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GAN900Jaffa, could, but it's tough to cover the gossipy stuff.20:36
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JaffaGAN900: Depends how gossipy it is, and whether we can spin a line about importance.20:39
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bananjust for the record, uninstalling fcam-drivers and rebooting solved missing /dev/video problem20:46
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timeless_xchatbanan: thanks for that20:48
chem|stwhoever that was with the battery... I can still show 0% 5mA discharging with bme readings...20:49
chem|stnow for about 4 hours20:49
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chem|stehrm ok no it shows flat since 18:3020:50
chem|stin my time zone it is now 19:5020:50
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chem|sttried several things while in that state...20:51
chem|stto actualy drain more power20:51
JakeS3right.. so noone around - need to hack it myself20:51
chem|stJakeS3: no gurus here... ask your question...20:52
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GAN900Jaffa, definitely need to see what we can synthesize about the whole arch and governance issue.21:03
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Jarockhello have a problem21:24
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JarockI have deleted my root file system on the nokia n900 and I'm not on it what can I do?21:25
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VenemoJarock, reflash21:26
infobothmm... flashing is
Jarockhave a problem21:27
JarockI can not flash because it says ra-51 not found21:28
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JarockImage ‘secondary’, size 109440 bytes Valid for RX-51: 2201, 2202, 2203, 2204, 2205, 2206, 2207, 2208, 2209, 2 210, 2211, 2212, 2213, 2214, 2215, 2216 ...21:30
JarockThis message comes up in every image21:31
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bananpaste terminal output somewhere and link it21:32
Jarockok mom21:32
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bananthis may sound like silly question but you do have n900 not some n800 right?21:37
Jarocki have n90021:37
bananwhat other images have you tried?21:37
Jarockno, no other image've tried21:39
JarockI'm sorry my english is not so good21:39
bananwhere are you from?21:39
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bananthere is newer firmware than the one you tried21:40
banantry it21:41
Jarockok I have another question21:42
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Jarockis this image better: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13 2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin21:45
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bananyea you might need vanilla tho it will deleta all from your emmc21:46
JarockI see a lot about Forum is thus often used ^^21:46
Jarockah okey21:46
MohammadAGthat isn't "better", both images serve a different purpose21:47
MohammadAGone flashes rootfs, one flashes the eMMC21:47
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MohammadAGyou needn't flash the eMMC unless you really messed up (in partitioning and such)21:47
bananhe deleted his rootfs21:48
bananyou never know what else21:48
kwtmIs "tset" available in maemo (for N900)?  That's to set colours in the terminal window.21:48
Jarockah ok thanks21:48
bananhe didnt say21:48
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bananjarock how did you delete the rootfs?21:48
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JarockI've logged in root mode since then "cd / " (accidentally) I wanted to delete a read-only directory for this command "rm-rf"21:51
Jarockafter 10 seconds everything was gone21:51
banansorry but cant stop laughing ... these things always make me laugh21:52
MohammadAGyeah, umm, I'd say reflash the eMMC too...21:53
MohammadAGjust make sure what's left is stuff you backed up21:53
Jarockflashing is not starting21:53
MohammadAGwhich wouldn't be a lot since /home/user and /home/user/MyDocs are under /...21:53
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MohammadAGtake out battery, plug USB, start flasher (it'll say device not found), put the battery back in21:54
bananand get the latest image, it'll save you updates21:54
Jarockok mom21:54
Jarocklol windoof lol I have solved problem21:56
Jarock"-" must be entered manually copy-paste works by not21:57
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Jarockyeah it works thank you all21:58
bananbut im guessing that youll still need emmc flashed first21:59
bananjust remember to read that b4 you start
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Jarockok bb lots have fun :-)22:02
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kwtmIs "tset" available in maemo (for N900)?  That's to set colours in the terminal window.22:04
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kwtmI think I meant "tput".22:06
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slonopotamusn900 keyboard requires holding Fn key (blue arrow) to type some letters22:14
slonopotamusnow the question is: how the hell i'm supposed to type capital letter that requires fn?22:14
slonopotamusand no, holding both fn and shift still produces lower case22:15
Sc0rpiusyou don't have to hold it22:15
Sc0rpiusjust press it and then press the other key22:15
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Sc0rpiusthe key22:16
Sc0rpiusI wonder what your language is because22:16
Sc0rpiusI don't have letters if I press the Fn, just symbols22:16
slonopotamuspress/release fn, hold shift +press letter still gives lower case22:16
slonopotamuscyrillic, ю22:16
Venemoalterego, ping22:17
Sc0rpiusoh dunno...22:17
alteregoVenemo: pong22:17
slonopotamuson the right of space22:17
Sc0rpiuspress shift twice and then press fn and then the key22:17
slonopotamusholy crap22:17
slonopotamusit works that way, yep22:18
slonopotamusand don't tell me that's userfriendly22:18
Sc0rpiusI think if you press shift first, then Fn, and then they key, it'd also work22:18
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Sc0rpiusoh :(22:20
Sc0rpiuswell then you'd have to stick with the double shift press trick22:20
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slonopotamusfor some bizzaire (spelling error?) reason, today was the first (in 1.5 years) day when i wanted to type capital Ю :)22:23
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DocScrutinizer~spell bizzaire22:26
infobotpossible spellings for bizzaire: bizarre Zaire bizarres buzzard Blaire buzzer brazier boozier bare barre bizarrely biliary blare braise bazaar22:26
infobotslonopotamus meant: for some bizzare (spelling error?) reason, today was the first (in 1.5 years) day when i wanted to type capital Ю :)22:26
slonopotamusoh, crap, one Z, two R :)22:27
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chem|stMohammadAG: 3:38h now at 0% 5mAh left (just to keep you postet how bad bme is in reality...)23:09
chem|stMohammadAG: how do I reset the battery calibration?23:11
chem|stMohammadAG: wasnt it you mocking around with the bq i2c readings?23:11
keriowhy didn't anyone port Osu to maemo yet?23:11
MohammadAGme and DocScrutinizer, mostly DocScrutinizer23:12
chem|stkerio: what is Osu23:12
MohammadAGbut he knows i2c, I don't23:12
chem|stthen DocScrutinizer the above for you^^23:12
MohammadAGI just complain how my meter drops from 50% to 023:12
keriochem|st: a clone of ouendan/elite beat agents/ouendan 2 for the pc23:12
wmarone_ah ok, that explains "Osu"23:12
chem|stso how do I reset the battery?23:12
chem|stdraining it dead does not help it... (that happened 2 charges ago by itself)23:13
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ShadowJKAre you running a mugen2400 or similar?23:15
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ShadowJKand what thing is reporting "0% 5nAh"?23:18
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ShadowJKif that's returned by bme, it's uncalibrateable23:25
Macerisn't there an oversized battery for an n900?23:25
krayonShadowJK: Do you know where to get them on the Web? I've not had much luck.23:26
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lolcatkrayon: there is abattery with more capacity that fits the original n90023:28
ShadowJKfirst hit
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lolcatHow much is a external charger for the N900?23:31
kerionobody answered me - why isn't there a port of Osu?23:32
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lolcatkrayon: THe price isn't really justifiable23:34
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lolcatkrayon: You could have 10 batteries for that price23:39
lcuklolcat, so a couple of weeks later he will have 11 flat batteries.23:39
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lolcatlcuk: He could have an external charger with room for two batteries23:42
lcukis there a guide with really clear photos leading to the usb port online?23:43
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lcukto let people work out for themselves if they could have a look/try at fixing them themselves23:43
lcukafterall, we encourage OS level hacking :)23:43
lcukwhy not hardware fixes too?23:44
alteregolcuk: sabotage seemed to get quite offended when I said I was writing my own dialer code :/23:44
SpeedEvilBecause most people don't haver the soldering equipment or skills23:44
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lcukalterego, I can understand that23:45
alteregolcuk: Maybe I should just work on their one.23:45
Gh0stywhat do you want to fix on the hardware level? :/23:45
lcukalterego, :) sabotage has MUCH MUCH more experience in the dialer than you could grasp in a reasonable timeframe23:45
alteregoWell, admittedly he knows the 3GPP specs better than I. But I pretty much know ofono off by heart now.23:46
lcukyou do need to work together properly, he has been doing the real dialer work now for years23:46
lcukhe knows what he is talking about, follow his lead rather than rushing ahead23:46
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alteregobtw, I'm talking to you hear because he's not here ;)23:47
lcukI understand.23:47
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alteregoHurp, and my dialer code was looking so good23:49
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bennypr0faneCan you please help me, I can't install updates with either stock or faster application manager!23:51
bennypr0fanehere is a log generated by fapman: I can't make anything of it though. Qgvdial shows up several times, but though I know I installed it, it's not in the main menu and not in the list of installed items.23:51
lcukalterego, the dialer as it stands has most of the wiring plumbed in and is not green code.23:51
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lcukso to find the simplest way to linkup that with the qml frontend would be part of it23:51
alteregoWell, the problem is there isn't much clear MVC seperation23:52
alteregoThere's a lot of intertwined MeeGo Touch crap23:52
lcukalterego, talk to sabotage and the guys in handset23:52
lcukthere might be23:53
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