IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-03-22

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ryoohkiwhat's the latest in the n800,n810,n900, ... series phone?00:05
vista_flasherworking alot better flashing the phone after flashing the eMMC00:06
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merlin1991ryoohki: only the n900 is a phone00:07
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vista_flasherEyy its working like a charm! Thanks for all the help! :)00:09
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vista_flasheruhm guys... when I started my phone now and entered SIM card, it freezes and I just se the button in top left corner and a lot of red dots on the screen. What's that about? :/00:13
andre__what button?00:14
vista_flasherthe menu button :)00:14
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vista_flasheroh wait, just restarted the phone, now it seems to be working00:15
andre__ah, so you are already on the desktop (was wondering whether it's still in the "five-dots" state00:15
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vista_flasherwhy do I get the impression of that  my N900 now is faster than before?00:18
vista_flasherfaster application manager is short: fapman right?00:22
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vista_flasherWhich N900 theme is the best one? (Yeah im starting this war!)00:30
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infobotOkay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)01:29
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DocScrutinizer'lo lcukn90001:32
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lcukDocScrutinizer, \o01:46
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Guest40473am.. i using sshfs wrong?03:24
Guest40473id user -> uid=29999(user) gid=29999(users)03:24
Guest40473sshfs -ouid=29999,gid=29999,rw,nonempty bjv@ flash_backup03:26
Guest40473no errors03:26
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Guest40473mount | tail -n1   -> sshfs#bjv@ on /home/user/external/downloads/flash_backup type fuse (rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=29999,group_id=29999,max_read=65536)03:27
Guest40473but   ls -l     ->    ls: ./flash_backup: Permission denied03:27
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Guest40473tab completion does not work on the mountpoint, while it's mounted03:31
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Sazpaimonhey guys, anyone see this:
Sazpaimonlightspark (opensource Actionscript 3.0 parser) ported to ARM04:03
pupnikno idea what that's for04:03
SazpaimonAS 3.0 is part of flash 1004:03
Sazpaimonanyone wanna try these debs (assuming the prereqs jive with Maemo 5)04:04
Sazpaimonmy N900 is still a few days away from being delivered, otherwise I'd try it04:04
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pupniknot a friend of flash here04:07
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Sazpaimonthe only issue I think is I don't think the ARM build of lightspark has any hardware acceleration04:09
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what' the issue with sshfs/fuse08:00
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DocScrutinizertekojo: hi08:55
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DocScrutinizerwow, TEPCO learns to talk:
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DocScrutinizerwell, actually JAIF09:26
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Termanagood morning09:29
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meceDocScrutinizer, \o09:40
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DocScrutinizerOT: could anybody explain to me what's the meaning of "seawater injection to core: continuing" in  rsp
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meceDocScrutinizer, didn't rtfa, but it means that they are pushing seawater int to cool it, and not using the water meant for the job. It's a last effort kind of thing that ruins the powerplant09:47
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DocScrutinizermece: that's what it suggests to us. But honestly, continuing injection of seawater and still way too low water level? And for all I know you can't "inject" arbitrary amounts of substance nto a closed containment, so what's *really* happening there?09:49
DocScrutinizeris that like "inject 500L, wait 2 days and watch occasional steam escaping, repeat" ?09:50
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mece possibly09:51
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villagerit has emergency cooling systems (and sensors) so I'm guessing it's not really completely sealed in that sense09:51
DocScrutinizerAIUI either they continuously "inject" cooling (sea) water and it comes out somewhere else, or this statement is BS09:52
DocScrutinizerI tend to favour #209:52
robbiethe1stI think it's coming out as steam <_<09:52
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DocScrutinizerthen they evidently inject too little water09:53
mecemaybe they mean cooling the reactor from the outside with seawater. Not actually injecting into the core09:53
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mecewhy doesn't ffmpeg have hwacceleration on maemo?09:55
mecewe have va/glx drivers don't we?09:55
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Robot101because it's not used by the platform - the hardware acceleration is done with gstreamer09:55
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mecebut could it be used?09:55
Robot101and I don't think there are any va drivers either09:56
meceoh  :/09:56
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Robot101so it's just using the OMAP DSP to run the codecs, and the decoded frames are sent either to a hardware overlay or to a video texture with Xv09:58
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Robot101gstreamer takes care of the depayloading, audio decoding, etc and syncronizes the playback between the video and the audio etc09:58
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meceRobot101, ok, thanks.10:05
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ruskie <-- interesting app10:11
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mecewhy is there no gtkglext in the repos?10:28
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RST38hgood moorning maemo10:42
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meceregarding ffmpeg vs gst11:11
meceis playback via gst automagically hwaccelerated?11:12
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timeless_w7ipgstreamer is an API, not an impl11:38
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timeless_w7ipmece: you probably want to ask about gstreamer-plugins-good or something11:39
MohammadAGmece, yes11:48
MohammadAGthough read what timeless_w7ip said11:48
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meceok thanks.12:02
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dnearytimeless_w7ip, isn't it both?12:05
dnearytimeless_w7ip, gstreamer implements *something*12:05
dneary(the basic DAG handling, and a number of standard filters)12:05
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dnearyIt delegates codec handling to plug-ins12:06
dneary(and in fact gstreamer itself is a bunch of plug-ins + the framework to load them & move data through a graph)12:06
dnearyAs I understand it, at least (and I might be wrong)12:06
crashanddiehey dneary12:07
dnearyHi anddie12:07
crashanddiebeen hitting the headlines quite a few times recently12:07
dnearycrash: Whatever do you mean?12:07
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crashanddieYou've been mentioned what, 3 or 4 times in a week?12:07
crashanddie(not this week)12:08
timeless_w7ipdneary: well sure, gstreamer implements a framework12:08
timeless_w7ipdneary: but for the purposes of the question, gstreamer was the wrong layer12:08
timeless_w7ipand that's all i intended to correct12:08
timeless_w7ipgstreamer is something like MCI12:08
dnearytimeless_w7ip, I missed the question :)12:08
timeless_w7ipdneary: the channel has logs ;-)12:08
dnearyI just saw your answer12:09
mecedneary, timeless_w7ip, well how does it relate? I have a choice between ffmpeg or gst, and ffmpeg on N900 does not support va-api12:09
dnearyAh: "regarding ffmpeg vs gst: is playback via gst automagically hwaccelerated?"12:09
timeless_w7ipmece: ffmpeg is more or less an api + an impl12:09
timeless_w7ipgst is the api, the impl could be one of a number of things12:09
mecetimeless_w7ip, yes. That's why it's a bit comfusing12:09
dnearymece, GStreamer provides, among other things, an ffmpeg plug-in12:09
timeless_w7ipit could be some standard open source impl which probably isn't hardware accelerated12:10
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dnearySo you can use both gstreamer & ffmpeg, if you so desire12:10
mecedneary, I noticed.12:10
timeless_w7ipor it could be a licensed thing which is hardware accelerated12:10
mecedneary, but gnash has the two options mentioned. gst or ffmpeg12:10
timeless_w7ipi'm pretty sure that the mpeg impl that gst generally gives you on the n900 uses the DSP or something similar12:10
timeless_w7ipbut it's really outside my area12:11
dnearymece, As timeless said, ffmpeg is itself an API to code against, independent of codecs & their implementations12:11
dnearymece, To summarise: both ffmpeg and gstreamer are abstractions12:11
dnearygstreamer can use the ffmpeg abstraction as one of its back-ends12:11
dnearygstreamer supports both hardware-accelerated & pure software back-ends12:12
dnearyffmpeg provides (I think) only pure-software codec implementations12:12
dnearySo gstreamer has the potential to support HW acceleration, whereas ffmpeg does not12:12
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dnearytimeless_w7ip, Is that correct?12:13
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mecedneary, among other things. It  [ffmpeg] can utilize va/glx to provide hw accelration via vaapi, but not the version that is in maemo5 repos.12:13
timeless_w7ipdneary: sadly it isn't that simple :(12:13
dnearymece, So, yes, ffmpeg could use any back-end API it wants for rendering12:13
dnearyIncl. X11, gl/glx, and even ascii art12:14
timeless_w7ipbut generally when people talk about ffmpeg i think there are thankfully countably few impls that people mean12:14
timeless_w7ipwhereas for gst, it's much worse :)12:14
dnearymece, And if it uses a GL back-end and you're running on hardware that can do GL natively, then in some sense you get "hardware acceleration"12:14
meceeither way I'm compiling gnash with everything I could get working, so I can test different settings with command line options12:15
dnearyFor the rendering12:15
dnearyBut not for the codec phase12:15
dnearymece, That sounds sane :)12:15
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mecedneary, problem is I configured for all possiblt hw accel options, but none actually got enabled :/12:17
meceoptions being vaapi, xv and omap12:17
mecealso, there doesn't appear to be gtkglext for maemo5 so I can't get gtk ui + opengl rendering, which is annoying.12:18
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meceI believe this lib is going to be gigantic12:20
mece93Mb O.o12:21
timeless_w7ipmece: w/ or w/o debug info?12:23
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mecetimeless_w7ip, hmm.. I dunno. lemme check.12:27
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mecetimeless_w7ip, w/12:42
meceI think12:43
meceoo there's a gles renderer!12:44
mecethat should help12:44
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mecethe main lib so file is 62Mb12:44
* lardman wishes his client would remember the time at which a highlight was made12:44
SpeedEvil(05:45:35 PM) ***infobot bends lardman|gone for suggesting yet another tracker sh*t over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on lardman|gone for suggesting yet another tracker sh*t's pasty white buttocks.12:46
lardmanthanks SpeedEvil12:46
lardmanseems fair too, whoever cursed me12:47
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lardmanmece: lol12:47
mecegood stuff12:47
meceGaaaaah! stupid frackin scp!12:56
FauxFauxsshtar time.12:56
* mece rips hair out12:56
meceFauxFaux, going for rsync.12:57
mecescp make symlinks copies of file. so now I have 2 of those 62Mb files.12:57
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FIQ|n900Indeed, some form of highlight history would be nice12:59
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massoudHi guys, I am looking on how to get IPv6 support on my N90013:01
SpeedEvilmece: rsync13:01
psycho_oreosmassoud, compile a custom kernel that has ipv6 support?13:01
meceactually I targz'd it and then scp'd. was faster. saved 80Mb :D13:01
meceare there issues with ipv6 support or could that be included in cssu I wonder?13:02
SpeedEvil Still funny. ;)13:05
massoudpsycho_oreos : there is now kernel mod available w/ IPv6 support ready for n900, i wonder there should be lots of n900 users that want ipv6 support ?13:06
psycho_oreosmassoud, maybe, when IANA phases out IPv413:06
xkr47ipv6 will probably run out of addresses before that happens13:08
xkr47around 2020 ;)13:08
psycho_oreosmore like 2012, the end of the world. There will be hardly anyone left that will still be fiddling with technology when there are epic crisis everywhere13:09
massoudso none of you guys run ipv6 on n900 ? :)13:10
crashanddieI run IPv713:10
crashanddieplanning to upgrade to IPv11 next month13:10
psycho_oreosthe experimental IPv8? that's interesting13:11
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psycho_oreoswhoa, my nose will so bleed -_-' technology evolving way faster than what humans are able to do with their noodle filled brain13:12
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psycho_oreosits like travelling at warp speed13:13
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timeless_w7ipmassoud: there was a nokia-palo-alto released ipv6 for maemo tech demo iirc13:17
timeless_w7ipbut note that ipv6 on mobile phones is more or less a disaster13:17
timeless_w7ipbecause the cellular network design is broken13:17
timeless_w7ipand you basically need the networks to deploy a new thing13:17
timeless_w7ipand they're terrible at fast roll out13:18
massoudtimeless_w7ip : thanks a lot, do you have a DL link for the kernel image, I would like to run mesh-network wifi protocol13:21
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massoudI want to run babeld on my n900 to run sip tests over the mesh network13:23
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mecehmpf since there is ff4 for maemo, you'd think you would be able to find xulrunner-dev for maemo somewhere.13:30
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sq-oneis it possible to forward X on the n900? I alreadey installed the ssh_d and in /etc/ssh/sshd_config X11 forwarding is enabled13:33
mecesq-one, yes. should work13:35
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meces/http:\/\/\/showthread.php?t=41168/sq-one, here are some comments about it: http:\/\/\/showthread.php?t=41168/13:36
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: mind to elaborate what's the GSM borne network problems with IPv6?13:44
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timeless_w7ipplease keep in mind that this isn't my area13:48
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timeless_w7ipbut basically it seems that when you connect to the network you make a connection which gives you an ipv413:49
timeless_w7ipand you aren't really in a position to also ask for an ipv613:49
timeless_w7ipworse, it seems that the deployed hardware isn't in any position to give you an ipv613:49
pahartikmassoud: I chose "Nokia N900" year ago as I wanted to have IPv6 subnet for Bluetooth PAN over mobile network uplink always in my pocket13:49
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timeless_w7ipdoc: basically of all the groups not remotely well positioned to deploy ipv6, the cellular industry is #113:50
timeless_w7ipthere's also iiuc concern that trying to deploy ipv6 in certain other manners would break "legacy" devices :)13:51
timeless_w7ipand since a legacy device is basically any phone from before say 2011 or 2012 or 201313:51
timeless_w7ipthat's a lot of phones :)13:51
timeless_w7ipthis doesn't even cover fun stuff like ipv6 for mms message centers13:52
timeless_w7ipor the fact that your cell provider might not have working ipv6 routing to a destination13:52
timeless_w7ip(that's the normal ipv6 hassle)13:52
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timeless_w7ipdocscrutinizer: is that sufficient?13:53
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timeless_w7ipeep, missing lunch13:53
timeless_w7ipsp3000: lunch plans?13:53
timeless_w7ipdoc: basically exec summary: the cellular industry did a really bad job designing their protocol13:54
timeless_w7ipand a bad job in arranging their hardware13:54
timeless_w7ipand were incredibly lazy about planning for the future13:54
timeless_w7ipwhich makes them just like every other giant who doesn't plan for tomorrow or the next day13:54
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DocScrutinizerouch, now I realize there's some layers of IP stack implemented in modem FW :-S13:59
DocScrutinizerit occurs to me the data transfer via GPRS isn't like any usual NIC you tell about raw data and MAC of destination14:00
DocScrutinizermhm, that pretty much kills IPv614:01
DocScrutinizerIt could've been so simple, change APN to APN-v614:02
timeless_w7ipbasically cell phones won't get a chance at ipv6 until 2013 or so14:02
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timeless_w7iplong after we've run out of addresses14:02
timeless_w7ipall because of what are essentially layering violations on the part of the cell industry14:02
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DocScrutinizerso what's our chances to see a IPv6 enabled cmt FW for N900? :-P14:05
timeless_w7iphardly matters14:06
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: AIUI that nokia-palo-alto IPv6 implementation been a tunneling IPv6-over-v4, no?14:06
timeless_w7ipthe odds of you having a non lame cellular provider aren't great14:06
timeless_w7ipdoc: yeah it was tunneling14:06
timeless_w7ipbut tunneling has advntages: .us PoP!14:07
tybollttimeless_w7ip: word14:07
tybolltman I felt like such a haxx0r first time I did that ;)14:07
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tybolltused an anonymizer to get into hulu (which otherwise restricts me from accessing it due to my being outside of the US)14:09
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DocScrutinizer(???)0°` :-)14:09
DocScrutinizerwtf hulu14:09
tybollthulu is uh...14:10
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tybolltall the OMGPONIES!11 fun american sitcoms and drama shows streamed via flash on the web14:10
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DocScrutinizerprolly I don't want to know as I never missed it yet14:10
tybolltif you watch House MD or 2½ men or similar shit you'll likely find hulu usefull14:11
DocScrutinizeraah, that even explained WHY I never missed it14:11
DocScrutinizerI prefer House in a synced version, downloaded and easy playback, easy watching. I'm not a native English speaker and movies are incredibly uphill to watch for me14:14
DocScrutinizereven news at CNN are hard14:15
DocScrutinizerI prefer written English14:15
timeless_w7ipdoc: ah14:15
chem|stDocScrutinizer: you should try sherlock holmes in english then, watch it as many times as you need to understand everything, then you might be ready for any london mouth14:15
timeless_w7ipnote that generally you can buffer and play things back14:16
DocScrutinizerno leisure activity14:16
chem|sta london friend of mine made me become london mouth resistant...14:17
chem|sttook about 2 years though14:17
DocScrutinizerI'd probably consider it more fun when somebody reads a sourcecode and I try to understand what the program does by listening to that14:17
chem|sttry espeak...14:18
DocScrutinizerwell, conversation face to face usually is easy, but listening to others talking their thing is hard14:18
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DocScrutinizeractually I prefer british to american English. Even Scottish is kinda nice, after an hour. But only when sitting with a guy and having a beer14:20
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* DocScrutinizer watched 4 episodes of House playback by N900 hooked up to TV recently. Only way to get downloaded files to a decent screen here14:22
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lardmanis there a working Google Calendar sync method atm?14:27
lardmanDocScrutinizer: British? It's English English thank you very much ;)14:28
chem|stenglish is refered to as american british or aussie... accent is another thing14:30
chem|stlardman: I thought exchange stuff wrapps around google?!14:30
lardmanchem|st: Well I speak English as I am English, so no need for an affix ;)14:31
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lardmanExchange stuff doesn't work afair14:31
lardmancomes up with connection errors, etc14:32
chem|stlardman: you speak british english with an english accent which is different to talking american english with an english accent...14:33
DocScrutinizer51lardman: what's the non-french tongue in canada called? and what does it sound like to a native speaker?14:33
lardmanchem|st: I speak English, those in the US speak American English, etc14:34
chem|stthat is funny in some movies where they meme an english accent but talk american14:34
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lardmanDocScrutinizer51: Canadian English, sounds Canadian :)14:34
chem|stlardman: that sounds mor like religion... as scotts talk scot'ish?!14:34
DocScrutinizer51sets wut I saut14:35
lardmanchem|st: nah, just my pet peeve14:35
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E0xchem|st: totally indeed..14:36
chem|stby definition the only german speaking part of the world is in northern germany14:36
chem|stall other parts are called dialekt but most of them are an own language by definition14:37
lardmanand it's called German there, not German German? ;)14:37
timeless_w7iplardman: do you know people who speak Austrian?14:37
timeless_w7ipnot to be confused with Austorian14:38
lardmanAustrian German, yes14:38
timeless_w7ipand certainly not to be confused with Australian14:38
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tybollttrue that, Bavarian is impossible to understand14:38
chem|stswiss german14:38
tybolltchem|st: bavarian14:38
lardmanswiss german is nasty stuff14:38
timeless_w7iphow about Swiss Italian?14:38
lardmanI don't speak Italian14:38
chem|steven worse14:38
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lardmanmy point is simply that in Germany they speak German, in Switzerland it's called Swiss German; in France they speak French, in Canada it's Canadian French; in England we speak English. British (English) is unneeded as a qualifier14:40
timeless_w7ipDoes having a Swiss Franc entitle you to speak Swiss French?14:40
timeless_w7ipIn Belgium they speak Belgian French?14:41
timeless_w7ipor Belgian Dutch?14:41
chem|stI speak fluent swabian, carintian (austrian dialekt) and understand most dialekts/languages german based in the south14:41
macmaNis there something that records battery life % into some data file with cpu usage %14:41
timeless_w7ipmacman: we're busy having a pointless discussiom, if you want to be productive, might i suggest you ask again in 10mins? :)14:41
lardmantimeless_w7ip: Belgian Dutch = Flemish afaiu14:42
macmaNor rather, any recommendations from the available battery-related packages14:42
lcukmacmaN, "BatteryGraph"14:42
timeless_w7iplardman: but you said it should be called Belgian Dutch!14:42
chem|strealy hard you get with allemanian (southwest dialect close to the swiss boarder but still germany, close to swiss german but with swabian and badian influence)14:42
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lardmantimeless_w7ip: no, I said that the British bit is unneeded on the front of English as a description of what is spoken in England14:42
chem|stmacmaN: batterygraph?14:43
macmaNlcuk: aha ok that looks about right14:43
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chem|stlardman: if read like this yes14:43
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DocScrutinizer51macmaN: >my.log14:44
macmaNi am trying to figure out whether i should still use wifi switcher or does the power kernel do something etter14:44
macmaNcompared to stock kernel14:44
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chem|stbut without telling that you are from "england" useless statement as the americans believe that they all talk perfect clean english14:44
DocScrutinizer51nah, both work ok, even without friggin switchers14:45
lardmanand that is the crux of the problem ;)14:45
lardmananyway /me gives up annoying timeless_w7ip :)14:45
lardmansorry timeless_w7ip14:45
chem|stmacmaN: if your wifi is set to powersaving and stuff not your wifi is draining the battery but your accounts logged in14:45
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DocScrutinizermacmaN: seems all those other battery* apps are quite greedy and hog CPU and thus not only log but also deplete battery14:47
macmaNDocScrutinizer: including batterygraph or this one is OK14:47
DocScrutinizeralso all of them rely on hal, and hal is spreading bme's lies14:47
* lardman tries Erminig for Google sync14:47
macmaNumm refers to what14:48
DocScrutinizercheckout bq2720014:48
DocScrutinizerto bq27200 :-)14:48
DocScrutinizeraka battery gauge chip14:48
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DocScrutinizerand immediately14:49
nealDocScrutinizer: Why do you think bme is reporting bad data?14:49
chem|stneal: because it does14:49
DocScrutinizererr, dunno, maybe because bme is crap?14:49
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DocScrutinizerat least that's basically in line with what I got told by nokia affiliates that actually looked into it14:50
nealhave you measured it?14:50
DocScrutinizermeasured what? bme's lies?14:50
DocScrutinizerI'd not know where to attach the polygraph14:50
nealdo you mean the percent that it reports? or the report volt/ampere?14:51
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, what's the ssh command you use again?14:51
infobotneal meant: do you mean the percent that it reporteds? or the report volt/ampere?14:51
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: mompls14:51
nealinfobot: no I didn't14:51
chem|stneal: I did after my device stuck at 0% for hours with the same ampere-h left14:51
lardmanhmm, Erminig doesn't seem to work14:51
DocScrutinizerssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root t90014:51
* lardman heads to get some lunch14:52
nealchem|st: interesting, I haven't observed that.14:52
chem|stlardman: ++14:52
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, thanks14:52
nealchem|st: is it reproducible?14:53
macmaNDocScrutinizer: ok found bq27200.sh14:53
DocScrutinizercheck CI=014:53
chem|stneal: with pr1.2 it shuts down at that point and I guess there are hours left as I can at least boot it up 3 times14:53
DocScrutinizerCI=1 means battery capacity calculations are incorrect14:53
nealchem|st: ah.  I usually plug in after that.14:54
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nealDocScrutinizer: where do I read CI?14:54
chem|stneal: I had that 0% for hours several times yes14:54
DocScrutinizerin output (not in loop mode though)14:54
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macmaNwhy? WHYYY?14:55
* macmaN runs away crying14:55
DocScrutinizerso you have to complete a learning cycle14:55
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DocScrutinizermeans fully charge then completely discharge the cell14:55
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nealDocScrutinizer: thanks.14:56
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DocScrutinizerneal: the most detail you get with 514:56
DocScrutinizerthere's no use in shorter period times14:57
DocScrutinizeras the chip's cycle time is 5.12s14:57
nealDocScrutinizer: where is that script?14:57
DocScrutinizerif you go for longer periods, you get a spotlight on last 5.12 s14:57
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DocScrutinizerI suggest you use bq.tar14:58
sivangso, maemo is probably the best OS nokia has every produced14:58
macmaNi would have to agree14:59
macmaNand most of it wasnt even done by them :>14:59
sivanganybody knows how to get out of S^4/N8 WHITE SCREEN OF DEATH other than waiting for the battery to crap?14:59
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FauxFauxRemove the battery!14:59
DocScrutinizeruse sledge hammer14:59
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sivangFauxFaux: can you get me that watch maker screwdriver?14:59
sivangthis is really unbeliveble.15:00
sivangbut mind you =15:00
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sivangI think I know what is the culprit15:00
sivangthe crappy nUnlock app15:00
sivangI removed it and then it went crazy15:00
DocScrutinizerlook for very small holes that are NOT mic or speaker apertures :-D15:00
sivangDocScrutinizer: I found them :)15:00
DocScrutinizersome phones have a reset switch15:00
sivangDocScrutinizer: right, but then I'd have to use the Phoenix15:00
sivangwhich I don't :-p15:01
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sivangthere is no hope for microkernel based OSs :-p15:01
sivangno hope!15:01
DocScrutinizeralso sometimes pressing power button for 15s might help15:01
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sivangDocScrutinizer: thank you doc!15:01
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sivangagain, you save the day!15:02
DocScrutinizerduh :-D15:02
sivangI tried it before!15:02
sivangbut now it worke.15:02
sivangthis non detriminism is killing me15:02
sivangI can't stand it.15:02
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* sivang cries for PR2.015:02
DocScrutinizera semi-zombie OS can intercept hard shutdown via 15s powerbutton (sometimes)15:03
DocScrutinizera completely frozen one can't15:03
sivangDocScrutinizer: right, so I had to wait for it to froze completely15:03
sivangDocScrutinizer: is that related to too quick context switching not allowing the power interrupt to pass?15:03
sivange..g the interception15:03
sivangor too aggresive swaping?15:04
DocScrutinizererr, it's like kernel is resetting the watchdog that times the 15s15:04
DocScrutinizerin hw15:04
sivangdue to ?15:04
sivangtoo many apps ?15:04
DocScrutinizeranyway it has to do this every time again you press & holdthe button15:04
sivangrequesting the damn thing for serviuces?15:05
sivangthis NEVER happend me with Maemo btw15:05
sivangand if an app strays, I can kil it like I do on on Ubuntu. #go linux!15:05
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vldcnstIs it possible to use the PC's sound input/output for N900 calls over USB networking?15:05
DocScrutinizersure, maemo has like 3 watchdogs :-D15:05
DocScrutinizerone of them will trigger usually15:06
sivangI love Maemo15:06
sivangbut if symbian3 was augmented with this, I'm sure it could be great as well. and it is.15:07
DocScrutinizervldcnst: it should be possible. Have fun figuring how to convince PA to actually do it15:07
sivangDocScrutinizer: PA needs to rute to BT and that's it? ;)15:07
anathaemaindeed that sounds like something pulseaudio is designed to be able to do15:07
DocScrutinizerBT via USB?15:07
vldcnstDocScrutinizer51: use the BT stuff?15:07
sivangI want to say that again: Maemo, I LOVE YOU.15:07
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anathaemabut good luck convincing it15:07
sivangDocScrutinizer: oh, quick to reading.15:08
sivangor too quick15:08
MohammadAGapparently the stock player reads metadata off tracker and sets it again in mafw15:08
MohammadAGthus... wasting even more resources15:08
MohammadAGthen emits a metadata changed signal15:09
sivangalso, Joikuspot seems to crap S^3 while with MAemo it goes un-noticed15:09
DocScrutinizerI bet there's a niche case where that's needed to fix fsck'd-ness of tracker15:09
DocScrutinizer...and tracker *based* app15:09
sivangDocScrutinizer: lol15:09
sivangre: tracker fsck'ness15:10
MohammadAGnope, my mediaplayer doesn't get metadata from tracker and works fine15:10
MohammadAGit gets it straight from mafw15:10
MohammadAGthere's no need to get metadata, set it, then get it again15:10
MohammadAGmore like UI fsckness15:10
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: except in that weird case where some app A is writing new files to foo while B is renaming it and tracker does a global reindex while mediaplayer using tracker data to show album art... get the pictuure?15:11
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sivangnow i wonde if people are exeporiencing audio issues with the N8?15:12
MohammadAGthere's a signal for that, no need to get, set, get15:12
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MohammadAGyes, it only has one speaker and that can easily be covered15:12
* MohammadAG stabs hardware design team15:12
DocScrutinizerto make things worse, that problem they tried to fix this way probably vanished in PR1.0.115:12
sivangMohammadAG: maemo is like 4000% better in sound quality15:13
sivangMohammadAG: when using earpiece15:13
MohammadAGsomeone kill the sound policy daemon, kthxbai15:13
sivangMohammadAG: maemo/ s^3?15:13
sivangand the one speaker?15:14
DocScrutinizerhah, my ACI audio concept (to kill / avoid PA crap) finally seems to make it into SHR and thus maybe also on N90015:14
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MohammadAGI want mixed audio sources15:15
DocScrutinizerdamn that took a few years to take pace15:15
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sivangso, I wonder if 'Social' is the virus like program for accessing FB from N815:15
MohammadAGI don't care if my caller listens to my music15:15
* sivang wants to remove it15:15
MohammadAGand twitter15:15
sivangMohammadAG: yes, I have a home made replacement for both ;)15:15
MohammadAGprogrammed in some awesome web-based language15:15
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MohammadAGmaking it crappy15:15
anathaemacan you send arbitrary pulseaudio sources to callers?15:16
sivangMohammadAG: you mean snaptu or the OVI ware?15:16
anathaemaactually better question, can n900 run asterix?15:16
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sivangoh dear, it can't be removed!15:16
DocScrutinizermeh, there's * for N900, but hnestly NOBODY needs that15:17
sivangS3 won't15:17
MohammadAGSocial app15:17
sivanganathaema: it runs, yes15:17
sivangMohammadAG: you mean, social crap :)15:17
* sivang fires snaptu15:17
DocScrutinizeranathaema: do you want to call trunk B from trunk A on your N900? how would it support more than one UA?15:18
anathaemaactually i'd be more interested in the voice menuing stuff15:19
DocScrutinizeraaah, oh well15:19
sivanganathaema: I'm afraid that is going to eat your CPUs15:19
anathaema"if you really really want to speak to anathaema now press "1""15:19
sivanganathaema: you better make sure it is plugged for that if you're using G72915:20
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anathaemathat alone would eliminate 99% of junk calls15:20
DocScrutinizerI doubt a B2B-UA like * is the right approach to implement voice dialing on N90015:20
sivangI agree with DocScrutinizer15:20
sivangDocScrutinizer: btw, any progress on the FMtx/rx docs?15:20
DocScrutinizersivang: duh, that completely dropped off my desktop15:21
anathaemai don't think there is anything lightweight that does even the simple stuff i'm talking about15:21
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sivangDocScrutinizer: no prob, I not in my best the last couple of months either15:21
sivangDocScrutinizer: when you have time15:21
anathaemai'm intending a "prove you are a human" call screener15:21
sivangI am going to start with a good read of whatever you come up with anyways15:21
sivangthis area of development really intrigues me15:22
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anathaemathe audio version of captcha15:22
DocScrutinizersivang: probably you better exploit my feedback and rant by simply talking to me live15:22
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sivangDocScrutinizer: okay, will do.15:22
sivangbut now now :)15:22
sivanghave to run soon.15:22
sivangweekend hopfully15:22
DocScrutinizeranathaema: you probably want to augment a TAM app15:23
DocScrutinizerfor that15:23
DocScrutinizerI doubt * could sanely interface to GSM calls (yet?)15:23
sivangDocScrutinizer: it has the codec, but that's about it..15:24
sivangthe gsm codec,15:24
DocScrutinizerwhat friggin codec?15:24
DocScrutinizerthe GSM codec is in cmt afaik15:24
sivangso it can decode and transfer to some other one :)15:24
sivangI'm talking about the codec to encode data as GSM and decode it15:24
sivangthere are modules for that for both freeSWITCH and *15:25
sivangthat's all :)15:25
* sivang talks out of his arse15:25
DocScrutinizersee above15:25
DocScrutinizeryou can't access raw GSM call OTA data15:25
DocScrutinizer*because* the codec is in BB5 modem, not on AP15:25
sivangso you have to interface with the modem15:25
sivanggot it15:26
DocScrutinizerotherwise crypted GSM calls were actually possible15:26
anathaemayou must not mean texas association of museums15:26
DocScrutinizertel answering machine15:26
nealI can't seem to reliably catch dsme's shutdown_ind15:27
nealI shutdown from the menu15:27
neal(not the command line)15:27
anathaemai dunno15:27
anathaemai know i need a working charger that plugs into 12V nominal15:28
nealI've tried it about 10 times.  I managed to catch it once.15:28
anathaemamy n900 ran out of juice while i was riding yesterday and i got mexican christian radio15:28
crashanddieis that a euphemism?15:28
anathaemano, the display on the bike's stereo is out15:29
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anathaemaand the first clear frequency i could find has a mexican church station next to it that bleeds in15:29
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anathaemabut if the n900 transmits you don't hear it15:30
tybolltso there you were listening to a mariachi band? :)15:30
anathaemai don't want to hear the news about jesus much less hey zeus15:30
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anathaemaor hey suse15:31
anathaemai don't even understand spanish15:31
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sivangsnaptu just made me paste my email onto my fb wall...15:31
anathaemai took french in school and that was many many years ago15:32
sivangGod, oh dear mighty god, please release us from them BOOGS!15:32
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anathaemaanyhow i bought a bluetooth dongle yesterday for the next time i need to use the n900 as a modem15:32
anathaemait worked fine when our net was down but had to stay plugged into the pc15:33
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anathaemaoh and i sucked like 1gb of bandwidth from tmobile that day15:33
xd13ya i'm still on tmobiles unlimited with 450 for 60/month15:34
anathaemascrew them and their "5gb is unlimited"15:34
* timeless_w7ip chuckles15:34
anathaemathey don't charge if you go over15:34
timeless_w7ipunlimited is what the market will bear without filing suit15:34
anathaemabut they claim they can clamp your bandwidth15:34
timeless_w7ipyou guys need to sue earlier, more often, and for better damages15:34
xd13i've never actually payed attention to it but i don't think i will ever go over15:34
anathaemaatt/swbell is starting to have bandwidth quotas on DSL now15:35
nidOor just complain loud enough, thats what I did with o2 and they backed down15:35
ruskie <-- "so Nokia has been thinking about tablets for the best part of a year - well, since the iPad was released..." <-- erm last I checked nokia had tablets on the brain since a few years ago...15:35
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anathaemanokia calls the n900 a tablet15:36
xd13nokia won't be releasing any more updates for it right? because i disabled the nokia repositories15:37
anathaemaother than the small screen it beats an ipad15:37
ruskiefrankly anything beats an ipad15:37
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anathaemamy brother in law bought one15:37
xd13i would never buy an apple product15:37
anathaemahis son works for apple so he got the employee price15:37
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ruskieso some spare change got left there15:38
anathaemabut it still cost too much imo15:38
anathaemai got my n900 for $35015:38
ruskieI spent doubl to buy a n900 than I spent on a ps315:38
anathaemaand it's almost open15:38
anathaemado i want a class 10 micro sdhc as opposed to class 4?15:39
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nidOdepends what you're planning to do with it.15:40
sivangthanks DocScrutinizer , others. see you all later.15:40
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anathaemai'm planning on installing meego to it15:41
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nidOyou might be better with class6 imo15:41
anathaemamaybe shooting some video to it also15:41
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anathaemafrys had class 4 and class 1015:41
anathaemain 32gb microsd cards15:42
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anathaemai should buy one from amazon15:42
nealthe class is the minimum MB/s15:42
mecewell class 10 if you can afford it.15:42
anathaemai9n that case frys rips people off on the class 4 ones15:43
anathaemathey sell them at same price as class 1015:43
nidOyou sure its not a branded class4 vs a noname class10?15:44
anathaema$99 for a 32gb micro sd15:44
anathaemathe class 10 is patriot15:44
ruskieI like patriot15:44
anathaemasame brand that amazon has for cheap15:44
anathaemaand they say if i find a lower price on the web they will match it15:45
ruskiemost ram I have in systems and a few SD cards and a few USB keys are all patriot15:45
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anathaemai carry an n900 hope they back that up15:45
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anathaemai can pull up amazon in firefox right in the store :)15:45
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anathaemai think i paid like $10 over the amazon price on a bluetooth dongle yesterday15:49
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* merlin1991 tries the ovi suite backupthingy with the n900 just for fun16:00
merlin1991wonder how much stuff is going to break :P16:00
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* timeless_w7ip wouldn't do that16:07
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merlin1991it worked fine, but generates an ugly .nbu binary blob with all the stuff in it16:12
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nealI figured out my shutdown_ind problem.  Basically my application didn't managed to process the message within the grace period.  Does anybody know how to extend that time a bit?16:23
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pupnik_more daimonin for maemo screenshots
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lcukrm_work, :P17:05
rm_worklcuk: :P17:06
rm_worklcuk: how goes it17:06
lcukit goes well, though very tiring :)17:07
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rm_worknice to still see you and GAN around periodically :P17:08
infobotDocScrutinizer: aw, gee17:08
rm_workseems the community is dwindling little by little, feels a bit sad, soon will not hear from any of my Maemo friends anymore >_<17:08
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rm_workalso, not sure how you ever got ANYTHING done while you had a dayjob <_<17:08
rm_workthe only reason i ever had time to work on stuff was because I was a student with like 70% free time17:09
rm_worknow i get home, collapse, play like 30 min of video games and sleep :/17:09
DocScrutinizerbetter than 100% free time - you definitely get nuttin done then17:09
rm_workDocScrutinizer: T_T -- though I suppose there's something to be said for that, i got less done when I was completely unemployed than i did when i was in school17:10
DocScrutinizerexcept feeding infobot17:10
infobotthanks, DocScrutinizer17:10
rm_workpupnik_: only one of those images loads :/17:12
npmcan someone confirm that qmlviewer on n900 eventually crashes even though other platforms (meego netbook/fedora desktop) work ok: see for details and video of app working w/o segmentation fault on desktop....17:13
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imersohi Guys17:16
imersojust curious if anyone has a weird bug when using x11vnc17:16
imersook i control my n900 from PC using x11vnc17:17
imersoit works really great17:17
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FauxFauxIt causes you to press enter randomly?17:17
imersothe builtin browser, it does not respond to mouse clicks/drags17:17
imersonot even that, only the builtin browser does not work properly17:17
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imersoeverything else (including opera) works perfectly17:17
imersobut I like the builtin browser, and ovistore only accepts it17:18
imersoanyone having this same problem?17:18
imersoFauxFaux? =)17:18
FauxFauxIt's really annoying, don't do it.17:19
imersowell, everything else works nicely17:19
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imersoeven Debian works great17:22
imersoI just can't understand WHY the builtin browser is the only app that does not work!17:22
DocScrutinizerask timeless_w7ip how the microB off-screen gestures got implemented17:23
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DocScrutinizerI'd not be surprised to learn microB is using a slightly different scheme to access pointer coords and moves17:24
DocScrutinizerjust handwaving17:25
DocScrutinizersome say my handwaving is usually good17:26
DocScrutinizeranyway AIUI microB UI is closed, so no luck in doing anything about it17:27
imersonothing against your handwaving, lol17:27
Sazpaimondoesn't fennec work just as well?17:28
* Sazpaimon hasn't used it17:28
lcukrm_work, I have just made a new n8x0 app :) once it works I will be posting it17:29
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DocScrutinizerI seem to recall some rumour about native zooming of whole X screen (in cssu), so maybe if you could shrink the display a itsy bit so the virtual screensize also contains the off-screen areas in a small "black" frame...17:29
rm_workmy n800 doesn't work very well anymore17:29
lcukDocScrutinizer, offscreen gestures are just a stroke that starts at X=017:29
DocScrutinizeryou're sure?17:30
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lcukwell that was how I wrote them when I was playing17:30
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DocScrutinizerI definitely know sensitive area extends to offscreen (aka negative) values17:30
* lcuk often tries to see "simple" way to do complex stuff17:30
lcukyes DocScrutinizer reading the ts driver17:30
lcukbut since these are x11 apps17:30
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imersowell, when I drag from the VNC client, the microB shows a mouse icon in the bottom left17:31
imersoI never see that icon when dragging on the device itself17:31
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imersobut using VNC client (from PC), it shows the mouse icon in bottom left and does nothing17:32
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imersoand it does not click links17:32
imersoreally weird17:32
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imersoweird because everything else (all apps I tried until now) works17:32
DocScrutinizerimerso: the same icon you get when sliding in from lower left into screen on N900 microB?17:33
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imersonever see that icon on device itself17:33
imersodont know how to reproduce that17:34
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imersoI see it only when dragging from VNC client17:34
DocScrutinizerimerso: is it that icon I just asked you?17:34
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imersowell I suppose it is17:34
DocScrutinizerthere definitely is such an icon17:34
imersoit is a big icon with an arrow pointing to upper left17:34
DocScrutinizerif you never seen it on N900 then you never used the select mode in microB17:35
imersoit appears lower left17:35
imersoI never seen it before when using the device itself17:35
imersoyes, I never used select mode17:35
imersoI am new to N900 (not to computing but to N900 yes)17:35
DocScrutinizerI think you told that 3 times now17:35
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DocScrutinizerwould you please do that encumbrance and open microb on N900, then slide from outside into screen hotizontally on lower left side?17:37
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imersoyes, doing that the same icon appears17:38
imersoi knew about gestures but never got interested17:38
imersobut yes, sliding this way on device really brings the same icon17:39
DocScrutinizerso now we got some clue what's going on17:39
imersoyes, thank you17:39
DocScrutinizernot that it makes us any wiser instantly17:39
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DocScrutinizeriirc that icon should vanish after some 3s if not clicked17:40
DocScrutinizerwhich restores cursor to normal operation17:41
imersoyes, but the click is ignored17:41
imersoso I can't drag nor enter links17:41
DocScrutinizeris that icon also vanishing in vnc?17:41
imersoI can use cursor keys to scroll the page, though17:41
imersoyes, it is vanishing in vnc as well17:41
imersothe interface around the web page works17:42
DocScrutinizerand reappers as soon as you do any mouse move?17:42
imersoonly the rendered web page does not work17:42
imersoyes, it reappears17:42
imersowhen I click within the rendering rectangle17:42
DocScrutinizerare you using a trackpad?17:43
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imersoI am using a 3 button mouse17:43
imersoa standard mouse17:43
imerso2 buttons + scroll wheel17:43
DocScrutinizerit seems like mouse cursor gets moved to left side immediately as soon as there are no more mouse events17:44
imersoI can use opera but I would prefer to use the microB17:45
DocScrutinizercould you try to move mouse to a link and circle around that link - always keeping it moving - until the icon disappears, then click the link17:45
imersoit is builtin, and I like its features =)17:45
DocScrutinizerimerso: we all got your motivation17:45
DocScrutinizerthis is a bug that needs get killed17:45
DocScrutinizerno need to applologize17:46
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imersowell, circling does zoom17:46
DocScrutinizerit shouldn't17:46
DocScrutinizerunless you got mouse button presssed17:46
imersoif i only move the mouse without clicking, the icon does not appear17:47
imersoif i click or click and drag, the icon appear17:47
imersoeven clicking links17:47
imersobut not clicking, it does nothing17:47
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DocScrutinizercould your N900 touchscreen be defective, always sensing a non existent press event?17:48
imersoworking on device is perfect17:49
imersodevice is absolutely new and perfect17:49
imersothe problem is only when using a VNC client from PC17:49
imersox11vnc running on device17:49
DocScrutinizerplease open a drawing program and try to draw some freehand lines17:49
DocScrutinizeron N90017:49
imersohumm, could it be some parameter I edited on the x11vnc?17:49
DocScrutinizersure, could be some x11vnc config17:50
DocScrutinizerregarding mouse17:50
imersoI tried Sketch, it works fine17:50
imersoeverything I tried works perfect17:51
DocScrutinizerhmm, that's some weird thing in vnc then, I guess17:51
imersobut why only the builtin browser?17:51
imersoeverything else works 100%17:51
imersowell, ok then, no problem at all17:51
imersoI can live with that17:52
DocScrutinizerthough I'm not sure if it's a flaw in microB maybe. I never tested microB via VNC17:52
imersoand use Opera when under VNC17:52
imersoI have edited /usr/share/applications/hildon/x11vnc.desktop17:52
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imersothe parameter: Exec=/usr/bin/x11vnc -usepw -remap Return-KP_Enter17:52
imerso(use password, remap keyboard)17:53
DocScrutinizermaybe somebody here can reproduce and verify/flasify the microB issue. I got no such setup so I could do that right now17:54
imersook, thank you very much for your time17:55
timeless_w7iptechnically microb acts as a daemon17:55
timeless_w7ipwhich means that someone could replace tablet-browser-* and still talk to microb17:55
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: is there anything special in the way microB detects mouse events?17:56
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DocScrutinizerso it could explain imerso 's problem17:57
DocScrutinizerIIRC microB is doing some magic to decide if that's a stylus or a finger18:00
DocScrutinizerplus some special filtering based on that distinction18:00
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timeless_w7ipthere definitely has at times been stuff to deal w/ pressure18:02
imersowell, I'm new to the N900/Maemo, but not to computing (I work professionally as a programmer)18:02
timeless_w7ipso yeah, it's possible that if there's no pressure you're going to get the wrong behavior18:02
imersoI could try to fix that if the source were available18:02
timeless_w7ipperhaps you can hard code a pressure value?18:02
imersobut I suppose it's closed source?18:02
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timeless_w7ipimerso: could you try paying attention?18:02
timeless_w7ipthis was covered 5 or so screens ago18:02
timeless_w7ipand you not paying attention hasn't won you any friends18:02
DocScrutinizeryeah, and as a touchscreen doesn't allow mouse events without button-pressed, I could think of microB ignoring the fact there might be moves that don't click18:03
timeless_w7ipanyway, i'd probably try tweaking the n900 vnc side so that it includes pressure sometimes18:03
timeless_w7ipor something like it18:03
timeless_w7ipnote that the browser was more or less developed w/ Xephyr like everything else18:04
timeless_w7ipso if VNC can behave like Xephyr, it should more or less work18:04
timeless_w7ipif it's behaving *less* like Xephyr, then that'd be a bug in its port for Maemo18:04
DocScrutinizeroooh xephyr - good point18:04
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GeneralAntillesrm_work: :P18:07
villagerhmm, seems using video glasses with n900 has the disadvantage that I cant see where on the touchscreen I'm trying to tap18:07
GeneralAntillesrm_work: it'll rejuvenate a bit when we have new hardware again.18:07
rm_workGeneralAntilles: yeah, always does18:07
GeneralAntillesIt always gets like this because Nokia is completely incapable of providing continuity.18:07
rm_workbut, who knows when that'll be18:07
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lardmanGeneralAntilles, rm_work: agreed on both counts18:09
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rm_worklardman: was remembering the discussion we had about vectormap server/client system for local or internet stored vectormaps18:10
lardmanyeah I keep thinking about that, and keep thinking that I don't have the time to do it :)18:10
rm_worklardman: i don't think we ever actually did anything for that? or if something was done, i never got in on it18:10
rm_worksame >_>18:10
rm_workI'm thinking about looking into the server portion18:10
lardmanNah, I never did anything, but there is now a rendering lib for the OSM data, so it would probably be reasonably simple to setup for that18:11
rm_workif we can write up a good protocol for it18:11
rm_workif it doesn't already exist18:11
lardmanI'd just use whatever Maemomapper asks for, e.g. the Google maps format for tiles18:11
rm_workdoes a protocol for serving the vectormaps already exist then>?18:11
rm_workah yeah18:11
lardmanthe lib is supposed to be used internally afaiu18:11
lardmanlibmemphis iirc?18:11
rm_workcause you serve the pngs18:11
rm_workyeah i'll look at it18:12
rm_worki guess really if the server was done, can just use MaemoMapper?18:12
rm_workas the frontend18:12
rm_workis there a working branch for N900?18:12
lardmanBut adding that in and also replicating the routing lookup html call would be good for offline routing proividers18:12
rm_worknever actually saw it18:12
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rm_worklardman: yeah was thinking seperate server process for routing18:12
imerso@DocScrutinizer: so, if I understood correctly, I could fix that changing X11VNC to pass pressure to the app?18:12
pupnik_rm_work: perhaps you have blocked18:12
rm_worksince IIRC it is logically seperate in the GUI18:12
rm_workpupnik_: ah, yes, but usually i get error images instead of just broken links18:13
lardmanrm_work: I'd have a single webserver to accept the requests for tiles and routing, then pass those off to separate processes if you want18:13
rm_workyeah well i suppose it wouldn't be hard to do both in the same app18:13
lardmanrunning more than one webserver on the device seems a bit wasteful18:13
rm_workwas just thinking then you could keep tiles offloaded to a server somewhere but do the routing locally18:13
rm_workif you wanted18:14
rm_workor VV18:14
DocScrutinizerimerso: I hafe not the faintest idea. But definitely you should be able to configure vnc so it behaves in a way it works with microB18:14
rm_workwell bbl, gotta go to lunch :P18:14
lardmanYou could do that anyway as they both accept different addresses18:14
DocScrutinizer(or configure N900 so it does)18:14
lardmanrm_work: I'll have a chat with you tomorrow18:14
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imersowill look into that, thank you.18:14
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lardmanWhat would also be interesting is reverse engineering the vector data format used by Ovi MAps18:16
DocScrutinizerimerso: obviously something makes the mouse position go to 0,0 when not moving the mouse18:16
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DocScrutinizerso microB thinks there's a swipe from 0,0 to current cursor pos whenever that icon appears18:17
imersomakes sense18:18
imersois there any simples way to just disable gestures then?18:19
imersoi dont use that anyway18:19
imersobut that is ok, nevermind18:20
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DocScrutinizeras timeless_w7ip explained microB got tested and developed under xephyr, so there is a way to operate it with a standard mouse18:20
imersothis clarifies a lot already18:20
timeless_w7ipimerso: please don't think that the cursor in the corner is the cause of the problem18:22
DocScrutinizerbut vnc or N900 X might introduce some touchscreenish into the mouse events18:22
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DocScrutinizernah, it's the type and sequence of mouse events that makes that icon appear, and this type and sequence has to change so the icon doesn't appear when it's not supposed to18:23
DocScrutinizeras it seems xephyr knows how to send the proper type and sequence18:24
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DocScrutinizeror to pass it thru in a correct way, while on N900 it causes microB to think there's a swipe18:25
imersook, will try some things (first look into all x11vnc parameters)18:25
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imersoif I don't find any config solution, will try fixing x11vnc then18:26
imersoif i find the time. =)18:26
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: are you sure microB is checking for button_pressed status of mouse-pos events when deciding to detect a swipe?18:27
timeless_w7ipyou're asking me if i'm sure about code no one has touched in about 2 years18:27
timeless_w7ipwhich i barely touched at all in the first place?18:28
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DocScrutinizeroh, sorry, don't know which code you touched18:28
timeless_w7ipi touched microb18:28
timeless_w7ipthis isn't microb18:28
timeless_w7ipnot really18:28
timeless_w7ipit's mostly tablet-browser-*18:28
DocScrutinizererr who else is checking for the swipe that pops up the select icon then?18:28
DocScrutinizerhmm, I think you lost me. Anyway o/18:29
* DocScrutinizer off18:29
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GAN900Man, all of this fancy new tablet hardware.18:37
GAN900Where is Intel?18:37
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timeless_w7ipdocscrutinizer: tablet-browser-ui  = /usr/bin/browser.launch18:39
timeless_w7ipor whatever18:39
timeless_w7ipmicrob is /usr/bin/browserd18:39
timeless_w7ipthey're unrelated processes18:39
timeless_w7ipbut basically anything that's painting and has widget like behavior is probably coming from tablet-browser-ui or its relatives18:39
DocScrutinizererr, you even better lost me now. imerso talked about maemo browser18:41
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DocScrutinizernfc what's the widget like behaviour you mentioned18:42
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DocScrutinizeralso what is painting here?18:42
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villagerDocScrutinizer: if you're going to say what vnc "should" do, you should probably keep in mind that Xephyr is an X server, while x11vnc is not, it just injects fake events... there may be limits to what x11vnc can do, xephyr has no such limits18:44
timeless_w7ipdoc: maemo browser = /usr/bin/browser = tablet-browser-ui + tablet-browser-....18:45
imersoso Xephyr would work perfectly even with the microb?18:45
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DocScrutinizerquite intuitive18:45
timeless_w7ipthe backend which actually retrieves data from the wire and thinks about how to talk to web pages and how stuff should appear on the screen = microb(gecko) = /usr/bin/browserd18:45
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timeless_w7ipimerso: well, "perfectly" might be overstating it18:46
DocScrutinizervillager: read backscroll, I mentioned that18:46
timeless_w7ipbut it worked for most purposes18:46
timeless_w7ipand was used for development/testing18:46
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villagerDocScrutinizer: no, as far as I could tell, all you implied what that vnc did something *wrong* and *should* be able to do anything that xephyr could do, with no more limitations than xephyr18:47
imersoor, as said, one could modify x11vnc to pass pressure to the apps18:47
imersoreading x11vnc doc I can't find anything related to pressure18:48
DocScrutinizer[2011-03-22 17:25:43] <DocScrutinizer> or to pass it thru in a correct way, while on N900 it causes microB to think there's a swipe18:48
imersoso I guess it does not pass pressure info, if I understood what you guys said before18:48
timeless_w7ipimerso: i'm not guaranteeing it's pressure that's the issue18:49
timeless_w7ipthe point is that xvnc is clearly not sending the same set of messages as the real screen18:50
DocScrutinizerI think it's the missing check for button_pressed18:50
imersook, that I understood18:50
villagerDocScrutinizer: yep, that's where you're probably wrong... also "you should be able to configure vnc ..." ... there may be *no way* that vnc can ever "pass through" or "be configured" to do what xephyr can do, since x11vnc does not act as an X server18:50
timeless_w7ipand xephyr to my knowledge sends a better set18:50
imersoso the fix is between x11vnc -> apps18:50
imersothe message x11vnc is passing to the system18:50
DocScrutinizervillager: <yawn> sorry if my wording been too fuzzy for you18:50
timeless_w7ipvillager: it's possible to emulate an n button mouse by providing a field with a drop down for a button and a set of widgets for <down> <hold> <tap> <up>18:51
imersobut even then, it would be better to use something like xming on PC and xephyr on the n900?18:51
DocScrutinizerbut yes, if that makes you feel better, I'm now aware xephyr is an alternative to X while vnc is "an alternative to mousedriver"18:52
timeless_w7ipwe're not claiming "pass through"18:52
timeless_w7ipbut i know for a fact that vnc does some things which are not "pass through"18:52
villagerimerso: no... if the app queries the X server directly about stuff, instead of just looking at messages, then probably x11vnc cannot hope to intercept that since it's not the X server18:52
timeless_w7ipso to claim "oh, vnc can't do it, that violates layering" or something is BS18:52
timeless_w7ipbecause vnc has widgets and throbs which let it do or compose things instead of simply performing a pass through18:53
timeless_w7ipe.g. it has a menu item for <Ctrl>-<Alt>-<Del>18:53
villagerthough I admit I'm not totally sure how powerful the X-test extension really is18:53
timeless_w7ipbecause sure, you can't send ctrl-alt-del18:53
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: because sure, you can't capture ctrl-alt-del18:53
timeless_w7ipbut you can insert a result equivalent to one, and it's important enough that they provide a way to do so18:54
MohammadAGhow do I convert from URL to IP again?18:55
MohammadAGnevermind, /dns18:56
merlin1991MohammadAG: what did you try todo?18:57
MohammadAGdo a burnout, didn't work18:58
imersothe thing I found most interesting is that even the microb interface around the rendering window works18:59
imersoonly the rendering window, where the site is loaded, does not work18:59
imersojust remembering, everything else works, everything19:00
imerso(( will try an action game right now ))19:00
imersotrying a game, that does not make any sense, but will try just to see19:01
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imersoplayed tetris =)19:02
imersowell, sorry but that is a bug within microb19:02
imersothat is not a problem with vnc19:03
imersoi am playing angry birds19:03
villagerDocScrutinizer: well, it's not even a driver. it just uses X-test extension to inject events19:04
DocScrutinizerimerso: if it's a bug in microB then it also would show up when using a mouse with N900 via USB hostmode or BT19:04
_berto_"The Finnish cellphone maker is still considering its options for tablets and these include MeeGo"
DocScrutinizervillager: >yawn> again. Please google for meaning of "ticks"19:05
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DocScrutinizervillager: I already granted you're right and I'm wrong and an idiot19:05
DocScrutinizerwhat else do you want?19:05
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imersook then, know what?19:08
imersowill be using Opera when under VNC.19:08
imersoproblem solved.19:08
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villagerDocScrutinizer: maybe to make clear that I do *not* think you're an idiot, but I tend to assume that people (esp. the technically minded) like to learn about stuff, because I do, and often enjoy people explaining stuff in a non-hostile way to me, even if I was wrong before... that colors my interactions I guess, I want to give back too, after all...19:18
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pupnik_  best book on the subject19:40
rm_workGAN900: fancy new tablets? IE the android ones?19:43
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GAN900rm_work, yeah.19:43
GAN900Hardware looks nice19:44
rm_workyeah >_>19:44
GAN900But . . . Android19:44
rm_workthinking about buying a Xoom or something and mounting it in my car as a nav system19:44
GAN900and the fact that I have no use for a tablet.19:44
GAN900Yeah, actually, that's a nice idea.19:44
rm_workcause my radio does A2DP19:44
nidOmy win7 tablet does its' job perfectly \o/19:44
rm_workAndroid maps is amazing19:44
rm_workand it could be my music server as well19:45
rm_workwith Pandora / etc19:45
GAN900I want MeeGo IVI.19:45
rm_workor passengers could watch TV shows19:45
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slonopotamus_on n800, python needs 250ms to do nothing (python -c "") :)19:49
* crashanddie is bored to death19:49
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ThreeMfirefox rc2 still useless19:50
MohammadAGcrashanddie, get killzone 3, that way I can kick your ass without even seeing you irl19:52
crashanddieyou're implying you'd kick my ass IRL?19:53
MohammadAGhypothetically, yaeh19:53
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lcukcrashanddie, please don't scare off the developers :P19:56
crashanddiehow so?19:56
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, up for a challenge?19:57
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, I wasn't talking about rl :P19:58
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MohammadAGI like how you lose your head when someone shoots you in it20:01
merlin1991^ try to get that in australia :P20:02
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MohammadAGmerlin1991, your head?20:03
MohammadAGyou just highlighted someone20:03
merlin1991I was refering to the crappy laws in australia regarding video games20:04
MohammadAGmerlin1991, you can't get killzone 3?20:05
merlin1991highest rating is 15+20:05
merlin1991so a lot of games can't get sold there20:05
crashanddieMohammadAG: so, what's the challenge?20:05
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merlin1991developers often do heavily "cut" versions for the australian market20:06
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nidOguess you'll likely be missing out on dnf then20:06
MohammadAGcrashanddie, you can't do a challenge IRL without being in the same country20:07
MohammadAGso, you name one :)20:07
merlin1991I won't, I live in austria, no kangaroos here .P20:07
jacekowskido you have kangaroo driving licence20:08
jacekowskiand emu driving licence20:08
crashanddieMohammadAG: Your challenge is: find me a challenge.20:08
MohammadAGcrashanddie, your challenge is: lose a challenge to me20:10
crashanddiechallenge accepted20:10
crashanddieMohammadAG: Challenge: Be a big fat emo prick.20:10
crashanddieI lose.20:10
crashanddieYou win.20:10
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MohammadAGtold you I'd kick your... what?20:11
MohammadAGdriving test on sunday, I'll probably fail it :)20:15
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crashanddiegood luck mate20:18
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merlin1991MohammadAG: I failed my first one20:18
merlin1991needed a 2nd try :)20:18
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crashanddiehang on20:19
crashanddieand already your driving licence?20:19
crashanddieI REMEMBER 1991!!!20:20
MohammadAGmerlin1991, I went over a 100 in my first lesson20:21
MohammadAGso I'll either fail cause 1) I don't have both hands on the wheel, 2) speed20:21
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inzMohammadAG, just try not to play with your N900 during your test, and it'll go fine ;)20:22
crashanddieor with anything else for that matter20:22
merlin1991MohammadAG: if you're on the right road over 100 is just fine :P20:22
merlin1991130 max here :D20:23
crashanddieeven for young drivers?20:23
MohammadAGmerlin1991, 3020:23
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I'm doing a legal 110 on friday, so yeah20:23
merlin1991crashanddie: yes, there's no difference how long you have the license speed wise, only the allowed alcohole level is even lower if you're a "young driver"20:23
crashanddieit depends on the country20:23
MohammadAGalcohol level is the same for all ages, as long as you can drink20:24
crashanddiein France for example, young drivers have to drive 110 instead of 130 on highways, and 100 instead of 110 on motorroads20:24
merlin1991bah we have 100 on all motorroads20:24
merlin1991tbh the speed difference is the least problem20:25
crashanddienot really20:25
crashanddiebecause by default you drive as fast as the cars around you20:25
crashanddiethough, that's a long forgotten memory in my case :P20:25
crashanddieGot my motorbike licence revoked for doing 180 in a 50 zone :P20:26
merlin1991nah what I meant is, that a new driver will drive as bad driving 110 or 13020:26
pupnik_scorched3d could really use a GLes port
merlin1991with that regulation you just get them frustrated, because everyone is taking over them20:26
crashanddieexcept an experieced driver can anticipate other driver's behaviour a lot better than a young one20:27
MohammadAGmerlin1991, watch it20:27
MohammadAGI drive well @ 100 :P20:27
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merlin1991crashanddie: that's why you usually keep distance from other cars, and more if you're new to the business :D20:28
crashanddieexcept that's the theory20:28
* haj 's motorbike can only do 80.. kph..20:28
hajno tickets here..20:28
crashanddiehow many young drivers have you seen that drive in your ass?20:28
MohammadAGheh, on my first lesson I always tried to get the least distance20:29
MohammadAGfor teh lulz20:29
crashanddiehaj: heh, mine goes 130 downhill with wind in my back ;)20:29
merlin1991crashanddie: honestly the people how drive in my ass here are guys that are 50+ and have expensive suvs20:29
hajcrashanddie: mine runs out of RPM at 80.. its this old war-horse..
crashanddiewell, those too20:29
crashanddiethe general rule is that most drivers suck at driving20:30
hajcrashanddie: it's like 55 years old.. ;)20:30
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crashanddieThat looks so cool mate20:30
hajthanks.. :)20:30
merlin1991I topped my car @ 170km/h downhill with wind in the back :P20:30
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hajit runs pretty nice.. when you get used to the low top speed.. :)20:31
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hajon the smaller roads it's really fun riding with the sidecar.. especially with a light "sandbag" so it's possible to get the wheel flying. .;)20:31
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hajcrashanddie: uhm. a 125? or something like thaT?20:32
hajah, it says on the page20:32
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hajwhat kind of licence do you need to ride one of those?20:33
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crashanddiein France just the car licence is OK20:33
crashanddiewell, not anymore, if you can't prove you had one before 2011, you need to undergo 7 hours of training (350 euros)20:33
crashanddieI'll probably get my motorcycle licence again over the summer or something20:34
hajI had to do training for like 150 euros in order to be allowed to ride with the sidecar..20:36
hajreally weird training... we spend most of the time balancing the bike on 2 wheels.. ;)20:37
hajhm .. I better go make some food.. *away*20:37
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, you can drive a bike with a car's license? :/21:31
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hajMohammadAG: For some reason some politicians think that you can't really get hurt on a small bike.. ;)21:35
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, can I have your bike? Need to prove something to politicians21:36
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hajMohammadAG: I hear that here in Denmark we'll have 3 different kind of bikes next year.. x-small bikes, 11kw that 16year olds can ride, small ones, 25kw for 18-21year old, and then no limit, 21-??21:39
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG: the likelihood is that you're only going to hurt yourself.21:39
GeneralAntillesSo, meh.21:39
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OkropNickA little off-topic. I need some simple XMPP/Jabber client for Symbian s60 for not-nerdy girl. What would be good?21:43
ruskiehaven't yet found the issue...21:44
ruskieerm... such a client I meant21:45
ruskiemight try nokias own21:46
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ruskieI forget what it's called21:46
ruskiebut it iirc requires a login into nokia before you can login to jabber21:47
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xd13i asked this before but no one answered. Nokia isn't going to give us anymore updates for the n900 right ? i'm asking because i disabled all the nokia and ovi repositories keeping only maemo, testing,ssu etc21:49
ruskiexd13, cssu you might want to add ;)21:49
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xd13well ya21:50
xd13it is21:50
ruskiethen I think you're more or less good21:50
xd13i said all those at the end i have in theer21:50
xd13i know refreshing is a lot faster without nokia and ovi in the repo list21:50
ruskieI think the next nokia update will be the meego developer edition for the n90021:50
xd13i want the phone 2 run smooth21:50
xd13from the videos i've seen not as smooth as i want it, but if they can improve i'll b on top of it21:51
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MohammadAGvideos always show things the way they aren't21:53
xd13well once it becomes popular and ppl start trying we'll hear more reviews21:53
xd13wish nokia gave us a ghz phone with the same capabilities as n900 and more bat life21:54
xd13but i think thats all of us here21:55
ruskiejust 512mb of mem21:55
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ruskiebattery life is rather good already(4days here for me and my use case)... or most of a day of music playing/other use...21:55
xd13i've never really ran it 2 empty21:56
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xd13usually give it 2 days unless i have 2 use it a lot one day in which i charge every night21:56
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nit-booterHey everyone, I have a question... I just installed nitdroid, and now the multiboot wont shop up on restart of the phone... Could it have become inactive somehow?22:27
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lcuknit-booter, what is nitdroid?22:28
nit-booterAndroid version for N90022:28
lcukdoes it run in a window?22:29
nit-booterMultiboot works, it just refuse to show up on start...22:29
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nit-booterlcuk, it's installed on a Micro sdcard and you boot it up when you start the phone22:33
lcukwhat benefits does it have?22:33
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nit-booterlcuk, android is another OS for the phone22:35
lcukyes, so what benefits does it have22:35
nit-booteronly benefit is getting access to android market i guess22:35
lcukso what cool apps are there from the market?22:36
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nit-booter250k to choose between22:36
nit-bootergeez, how havnt you heard about Android?22:36
lcukmentioning numbers does not sway me22:36
lcuknit-booter, :) of course I have heard of android22:37
lcukI am asking what benefits it has over other OSes22:37
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nit-booterWell, if you are after the XBMC remote you can download it from the androidmarket instead of making your own ;)22:38
lcuki have a remote myself22:38
lcukthe xbmc one would not work on my computer22:38
lcukbut then there are others - like bluemaemo etc22:39
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nit-bootergoddamnit, why doesnt multiboot start with phone start?22:39
nit-booterBluemaemo uses bluetooth, bluetooth drains battery22:39
lcukandroid manages to talk to remote devices without draining battery?22:39
lcuknow THAT is a feature!22:39
nox-i guess he means an ir remote?22:40
nit-booterThe particular app im after uses HTTP instead of bluetooth22:40
nit-booterim always connected to wifi anyways22:40
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lcuknit-booter, ahhh, you mean one that uses wifi instead of bluetooth22:40
* lcuk likes http remote controls :)22:40
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lcukturning the tv over from another ocuntry is useful and fun (seriously!)22:40
lcukit really winds the missus up!22:40
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nit-booterSo, does anyone had the same problem with Multiboot not starting at phonestart? :o22:41
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lcuknit-booter, does android on the n900 have all the normal android apps?22:42
nit-booterIt has access to Android Market22:43
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lcuknit-booter, I remember seeing some sort of map thing on androids that works quite well22:44
lcukis that available?22:44
nit-booterguess so, I havnt gotten that far yet22:44
lcukit looks a bit like cloudgps from my recollection22:44
nit-booterreinstalling kernel power atm...22:44
* lcuk wonders what the calendar on android looks like22:45
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ds3android talk? has people here surrendered?22:46
nit-booternitdroid talk22:46
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lcukds3, just wondering what makes people use it - whether there are any great things22:46
lcukso far there is a market thingy, but no specific decent apps or games mentioned22:47
nit-booterXBMC remote is a decent app worth getting :P22:47
lcukthe full xbmc is available o nthe n900 meego22:47
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ds3lcuk: it is good for selling new devices22:48
ds3market is a very bad idea22:48
ds3you have to sign in and put your credit card number in a system that you don't control/understand22:48
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ds3wtf is that22:48
lcuki don't mind that part22:48
lcukI already did that with mrs lcuk22:49
lcukas all women are the same (cannot control/understand)22:49
nit-booterWell why would I need XBMC on my phone? Thats just stupid... My movie library wont even fit by 10%...22:49
ds3ah, but you probally get a better return then stupid apps22:49
ds3nit-booter: you don't carry around a 1TB drive? :D22:49
nit-booterds3, sadly I have a life... ;)22:50
nit-booterim soon giving up and getting a media keyboard for my computer :/22:50
nit-booterGoddamnit, the phone is double-restarting now...22:51
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lcuknit-booter, this android seems unstable :( you should use a proper os22:52
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ds3nit-booter: well, maybe not 1TB but a 2.5" battery powered drive is very carryable22:52
nit-booterNo, its the multiboot-kernel that wont start on phonestart22:52
lcukdo all android phones support this multiboot?22:53
lcukperhaps you would be better just putting maemo/meego on them instead22:53
turboweinitdroid still doesnt support voice call right?22:54
nit-booterAs stated before, nitdroid is installed on a micro sd card, so I still boot up Maemo... But I want the multiboot menu but it doesnt show!22:55
turboweinit-booter: boot with keyboard drawn out?22:55
ds3can you, with nitdroid - ssh out to a shell and be able to use screen... i.e. send a ctrl-a?22:56
nit-booterTurbowei, I am... :/22:56
* lcuk goes and washes hair and stuff22:57
lcukgood luck nit-booter \o22:57
nit-booterwooop woop! re-flashed kernel power, works now! :D22:57
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nit-booterds3, I dont know tbh...23:00
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turboweinit-booter: does nitdroid support voice call?23:04
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MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, heh23:07
MohammadAGI'll pass on meego conf, dates collide with my exams :/23:08
lcukMohammadAG, meego-fi conf too?23:08
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GeneralAntillesMohammadAG: see if you can take them early.23:09
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, can't, they're worldwide23:09
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MohammadAGlcuk, hmm?23:09
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timeless_xchatso, mIRGGI isn't very useful on the n823:10
timeless_xchatit doesn't expect devices not to have a keyboard / keypad ...23:10
timeless_xchatbtw, there's a new Opera version for Fremantle23:11
nit-booterWhat would be the most awesome program for N900?23:11
timeless_xchatand a Firefox for Mobile rc, which is probably going to be final23:12
javispedroHats off to opera guys if they keep updating...23:12
timeless_xchatsomewhere there's also apparently a Chromium with crypto support23:13
timeless_xchatbut i don't know where :)23:13
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SpeedEvilcrypto supporrt?23:23
BCMMthere are browsers without crypto?23:23
SpeedEvilThere are a number of programs for n900 I'd like. From a widget that turns the flashlight on when camera cover opened downwards, on out.23:23
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krayonSpeedEvil: That's a good idea that.23:29
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* turbowei is loving Qt, but the project is turning into a rewrite of java, probably that is where it is stretching too far.23:39
xxtjaxxwhich package ships python-qscintilla on maemo?23:40
xxtjaxxis there any23:40
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xxtjaxxFauxFaux: hm?23:42
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FauxFauxIt's a tool that tells yuo which package ships a file.23:42
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