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| DocScrutinizer | GuySoft: then reflash, and DO NOT restore all those fancy little applets and whatnot, that some of them are known to keep system busy. Deactivate skype and IM as well | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | GuySoft: worst case you have a perfectly working power-humble system that 'just' is logged in to a rogue fubar 3G data carrier that forwards random pings originating around the world to the IP addr of your GSM interface. This will keep even a completely idle system in a state of permanent TX similar to a never ending phonecall | 00:20 |
| thomasjfox | GuySoft: Another option would be to install "powertop" and see which application is waking up the CPU | 00:23 |
| GuySoft | DocScrutinizer, its a n810, its like a phone without the evil | 00:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ohh, so no idea then | 00:24 |
| ZogG_w | MohammadAG: did u think of submiting maemo-cssu to gcos '11 ? =) | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | powertop is your best bet then | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | if that's even available for diablo | 00:24 |
| GuySoft | DocScrutinizer, i am not sure, let me look | 00:25 |
| thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer, GuySoft: I think it's only available for fremantle / N900 | 00:25 |
| GuySoft | E: Couldn't find package powertop :( | 00:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, for N810 I think there are hidden and not so hidden power hogs as well: CPU freq governor policy (keep CPU at high clock all the time, profile "power" or "performance" or sth), vboost providing 5V to USB for nuttin, frontcam enabled, ...??? | 00:28 |
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| ShadowJK | GuySoft, do you have it on wifi? is powersaving at max? | 00:29 |
| GuySoft | i found a package of powertop | 00:29 |
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| ShadowJK | It doesn't work on N810's kernel | 00:30 |
| GuySoft | ShadowJK, i have wifi on yes | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | check wifi advanced settings, powersaving | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a HUGE hog when not at max | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even at max it may still fail on particular APs | 00:32 |
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| ShadowJK | Though if this is a sudden problem, and the AP hasn't been changed or touched, it's probably not that it's crap at max :) | 00:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah IF | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | debugging powerdrain in a system is basically partially dirt simple, partially it's mere voodoo | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and for sure it's virtually impossible with a "did nuttin, now borked, HALLP!" report | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E "more info needed" | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | If it's truly a "did nuttin, now borked" case, then I'd blame the battery | 00:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure, *usually* it's hw then (except for filled up root due to growing syslog, automatic updates fsckng up sth, etc) | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but 99.5% are of the class "*I* did nothing! ... !!! ...! ... ... ... Sure, HAM installed that update of foobar, but I don't even use foobar" | 01:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or "I didn't even touch the device! Definitely! ... aaah, yes, my neighbour got a new DSL. Why is that relevant? ... Yes I use my neighbour's AP, but still I didn't do any changes to my device" | 01:11 |
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| Macer | wow | 01:22 |
| Macer | skype/telepathy is such a battery whore | 01:22 |
| Robot101 | it's skype | 01:23 |
| APTX | but it has dbus! | 01:23 |
| Robot101 | telepathy (eg XMPP, and SIP) hooks into the device-wide heartbeat stuff, to suppress keep-alives | 01:23 |
| Macer | yeah | 01:24 |
| Macer | skype doesnt seem to do that ;) | 01:24 |
| Macer | it really sucks the battery dry | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: suppress keep-alives? how's that? | 01:24 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: there's a heartbeat daemon, and an iptables module which queues up TCP keepalives, and releases them when the daemon says so | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | or are you talking about that bundling of activities? | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | tcp keepalives are pretty insignificant compared to IM protocol keepalives :-) | 01:25 |
| Robot101 | other stuff that sends connection-level keepalives including SIP and XMPP connect to the same daemon | 01:25 |
| Robot101 | and only send them out when the timeouts go, or something else is using the connection | 01:25 |
| Robot101 | so they all skip to the same beat, and only wake up the device & antenna if the connections need to be kept alive | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I know about that | 01:26 |
| Robot101 | skype has no such thing, it makes 10s of TCP connections and talks crap over them all all the time | 01:26 |
| Robot101 | and wakes up almost constantly | 01:26 |
| Robot101 | kiss your battery goodbye :P | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | "suppressing keep-alives" somewhat sounded strange to me though, I probably misunderstood it | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | I've only seen one tcp connection from skype, and yeah it does use power :-) | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also all that doesn't really help for curing bad efects of random inbound pings | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | which you get a lot for skype/IM aiui | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | for inbound you'd need a proxy doing that buffering/bundling for you | 01:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc ShadowJK implemented sth along that line for IRC | 01:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 01:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: there's a problem with telepathy-sofiaSIP, contacts, and dialer. I got an account at sipgate.de, a german SIP provider. It has an associated landline number. Inbound call from e.g landline "+49 911 123456" are signalled and logged as origin:"SIP:0911123456@sipgate.de". This doesn't match to any contact that has tel:"0911123456" nor to "+49911123456". My question: is there a concept in telepathy to deal with this? | 01:38 |
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| Robot101 | alas no, the address book code in the N900 has special-cases for doing suffix lookups on incoming PSTN calls, but the same isn't true of SIP URIs | 01:40 |
| Robot101 | it would need to have some heuristic to decompose them to pull out a telephone number | 01:40 |
| Robot101 | but it's always going to be a kinda lame hack | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, in twinklephone there's an option to check for "...;call=tel" parameter and in that case discard the domain part and display the user part as a plain simple phonenumber. Service "tel:" in any SIP addr should get handled same way. But yeah, basically I agree there has to be heuristics to deal with that, as there seems to be no consistent standard how carriers handle signalling of inbound calls via PSTN gateway | 01:55 |
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| Robot101 | aha, call=tel sounds useful | 01:56 |
| Robot101 | want to send a wishlist bug to telepathy-rakia and say "expose tel: and ;call=tel numbers through a different namespace so that UIs can apply PSTN heuristics"? | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | so maybe sofiaSIP might learn to callback a hook to arbitrary scripts that act as a (unix) filter converting stdin sip:0911123456 to stdout 0911123456, and then sofiaSIP would use that cooked addr for further processing of the inbound call | 01:57 |
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| Robot101 | that seems... er... unlikely :P | 01:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (want to send...) nah, sorry. I got nfi how telepathy works, and what to implement where to fix/augment things and who's the dude to talk to about it. | 01:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i.e. I don't even know rakia, never heard of it/him/her(?) | 02:00 |
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| Robot101 | #telepathy is a good starting point | 02:01 |
| Robot101 | tp-rakia is the new name for tp-sofiasip | 02:01 |
| Robot101 | mikhailz is the main dev there | 02:01 |
| Robot101 | alsuren is also working on some SIP stuff on and off | 02:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thanks, but unlikely I want to spend weeks to get knowledge up to a level so I could participate there | 02:02 |
| Robot101 | well if you're going to be so obstructive about it, I'll file the (*&!098 bug :P | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 02:03 |
| * Arkenoi thinks telephony providers that present caller id in stupid "local" format should be burned. | 02:04 | |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35437 | 02:05 |
| povbot | Bug 35437: was not found. | 02:05 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: feel free to add yourself on CC :P | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 02:06 |
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| e-yes | hi all | 02:14 |
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| e-yes | anyone familiar with tvout/overlay around here? | 02:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | e-yes: shoot | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ask | 02:37 |
| infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. | 02:37 |
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| e-yes | DocScrutinizer, is it possible switch output lcd->tv (and back) without X server? (I mean something simple like shellscript) | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: ( address book code in the N900 has special-cases for... ) There's a checkmark box on SIP accounts in fremantle "[X] use this account for PSTN" (OWTTE). Seems to me it should work both directions, i.e. handle inbound addr from that account in a f'() way of what it does for dialing PSTN number outbound via that account | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Without X server, with the default kernel, you get a reboot | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | e-yes: what are you trying to do? | 02:44 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: yeah - it doesn't :P | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | e-yes: TVout is via a dedicated framebuffer that just happens to (usually) have same content like the one used for LCD, afaik | 02:45 |
| e-yes | i have process that open framebuffer | 02:45 |
| e-yes | trying to switch (the same) framebuffer to tvout | 02:46 |
| BCMM | i'd assumed it was able to capture video overlays like some desktop graphics cards | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | e-yes: i am no expert for that, but would assume you can't simply switch the LCD framebuffer to output to AVout | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik they have significantly differing properties, regarding resolution, framerate, whatnot else | 02:48 |
| BCMM | 57.2Hz? wtf? | 02:49 |
| BCMM | (from xrandr, run using ssh -X to a normal linux machine that actually has the xrandr command) | 02:50 |
| BCMM | is that really the refresh rate? why? | 02:51 |
| e-yes | BCMM, why not? | 02:52 |
| BCMM | it's a rather unusual choice... | 02:53 |
| e-yes | enought for nonflicker on lcd | 02:53 |
| BCMM | i'm wondering if there's a specific reason for that choice is all | 02:53 |
| e-yes | some DMA limitations? LVDS bandwidth limit? | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Baseball's back. | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can be happy again. | 02:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Is there any good method for imaging both the rootfs and the emmc to clone a device? | 02:59 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, e-yes : observation: tv out normally outputs the translated x11 RGB buffer (how it does it, IDK - call it magic) but if you open a YUV overlay, that is output instead. | 03:02 |
| lcuk | for as long as the YUV overlay is in effect, that is what is sent to the tvout | 03:02 |
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| lcuk | normally, maemo video player stops the YUV overlay when you pan to dashboard, and tvout resumes showing the x11 content | 03:03 |
| nox- | YUV overlay == using xv? | 03:03 |
| lcuk | yes | 03:03 |
| nox- | ah | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: (clone) I think .tgz images created by backupmenu should suffice | 03:03 |
| lcuk | but it is entirely feasible (and played with quite a lot) that you can continue playing YUV overlay content whilst you have entirely different data on the X11 RGB | 03:04 |
| e-yes | lcuk, thx. looks like so, I'm googling OMAP/DSS now:) | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (normally video player stops...) yes, a very annoying property | 03:04 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, stops for a different reason | 03:05 |
| lcuk | the YUV layer is not composited ;) | 03:05 |
| lcuk | so you end up seeing a postage stamp window into the whole movie | 03:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: nah, I'd prefer media player to contine playback movie via AVout, even while I'm checking email on N900 | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | (you can continue playing YUV overlay content whilst you have entirely different data on the X11 RGB) | 03:07 |
| lcuk | yes | 03:07 |
| lcuk | I know however the majority use case is not tvout | 03:07 |
| lcuk | so the YUV layer gets stopped for that | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh that's a design flaw - there had to be a config feature or menu setup entry | 03:07 |
| lcuk | I think it is overlooked | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | like so many others | 03:08 |
| lcuk | I thought about using a BT keyboard and mouse to be honest | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g audio playback via AV to home stereo, where you for sure don't want ts clicks and ringtones via AV | 03:08 |
| nox- | and btw did i get that right, n900 does something like vaapi/vdpau too? | 03:09 |
| * jonwil is about ready to give up hope of seeing anything from Nokia that will benefit Maemo, despite https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128#c8 | 03:09 | |
| povbot | Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: poke Jaffa about state of negotiations | 03:09 |
| * lcuk recognises that bug | 03:09 | |
| lcuk | *grin* | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | nox-, well... if you push something through gstreamer it might go through the hardware decoded path, or fail | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | nox-, it's something like, um, openmax.. | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | or openil | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | whatever | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | at the end of gstreamer | 03:10 |
| nox- | but its also gpu offloading? | 03:11 |
| nox- | or is that the dsp? | 03:11 |
| ShadowJK | GPU is worthless for video. | 03:11 |
| * nox- just curious cause i had some `fun' with vdpau/vaapi and libxine/vdr... | 03:11 | |
| nox- | so its the dsp that does it? | 03:12 |
| ShadowJK | (Yeah on nvidia desktops chips more capable than the low-end ones, there are enough shader units that they actually decode video with sheer bruteforce) | 03:12 |
| ShadowJK | Yes. | 03:12 |
| nox- | ok | 03:12 |
| ShadowJK | And the result is fed to DSS2 which does the colourspace transform and scaling | 03:13 |
| nox- | DSS2? | 03:13 |
| lcuk | there is also the IVA(2) which as far as I know is a whole core like the DSP but essential unused | 03:13 |
| ShadowJK | IVA is used | 03:13 |
| nox- | heh | 03:13 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, the IVA is meant to do that work | 03:13 |
| lcuk | ahh | 03:13 |
| ShadowJK | But it's undocumented | 03:14 |
| lcuk | it does YUV<->RGB too | 03:14 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, used by what? | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | When you play h264 movie | 03:14 |
| jonwil | When is the best time to catch Jaffa? | 03:14 |
| lcuk | how would a mere mortal use it | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, one wouldn't | 03:14 |
| lcuk | jonwil, just after it falls from the tree. | 03:15 |
| e-yes | for camera resizer iirc | 03:15 |
| ShadowJK | Unless you go through mafw or gstreamer | 03:15 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, how does gstreamer use it? | 03:15 |
| ShadowJK | the closed dsp blobs | 03:15 |
| lcuk | is it just a coprocessor (like old amiga blitter) or does it have its own kernel and extra stuff (like the DSP) | 03:15 |
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| * SpeedEvil tries to remember how many cores he counted in the n900. | 03:16 | |
| ShadowJK | Basically, IVA is this unit full of useful algorithms common to most video formats, and it's accessible from the DSP. The "DSP Codecs" in fact access IVA for the heavy lifting | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I think I got up to a dozen once. | 03:16 |
| lcuk | 4 | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | 11 | 03:16 |
| lcuk | 1 cpu, 1 powervr, 1 dsp, 1 iva | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Bluetooth, wlan, modem (2), ... | 03:16 |
| ShadowJK | also, neon runs almost like a coprocessor too :) | 03:16 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, those are not compute cores in the same sense | 03:17 |
| lcuk | my understanding was the others mentioned are some kind of mutated arm | 03:17 |
| ZogG_w | over9000 cores | 03:17 |
| derf | The DSP is nothing like an ARM. | 03:17 |
| ShadowJK | I would guess that DSS2 is Display SubSystem version 2. It would do scaling and colourspace transform, I'd think. | 03:17 |
| * lcuk is wrong then | 03:17 | |
| ZogG_w | leg is not like an arm | 03:17 |
| lcuk | and you would know derf, thanks \o | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | the DSP is, well, a DSP | 03:18 |
| * ZogG_w is bored | 03:18 | |
| ShadowJK | if DSP codecs was outputting RGB, I think you could composite it instead of going through Xv... If GPU/SGX has enough bandwidth for 800x480 RGB textures at 30fps, that is | 03:18 |
| derf | It's VLIW capable of dispatching 8 instructions/clock (of various types, not arbitrarily), with 64 32-bit registers. | 03:19 |
| ShadowJK | So like a Transmeta P4 :-( | 03:19 |
| ShadowJK | (yeah I intentionally mixed metaphors) | 03:19 |
| derf | Yeah, somewhat. | 03:19 |
| derf | Except it runs off 2W of power going full bore. | 03:20 |
| derf | (and is considered a power hog in embedded circles for using that much) | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I doubt the DSP uses 2W full-bore. | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | (alone) | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | C64x+™ DSP and Video Accelerators (3525/3530 only) | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/lit/sg/sprt537a/sprt537a.pdf | 03:20 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, problem is not explicit to textures | 03:20 |
| lcuk | the XV mode runs in arbritary resolution | 03:21 |
| lcuk | so you send video through at 400*240 and it does not waste bandwidth using all 800*480 | 03:21 |
| lcuk | as would be currently required in RGB | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMAP35x devices integrate the superscalar Cortex-A8 core and TI’s TMS320C64x+™ DSP into four applications processors: OMAP3503, OMAP3515, OMAP3525 and OMAP3530. | 03:22 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, it *might* be feasible to do it of course, but it would be such a waste of power and bandwidth | 03:22 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, sure, but considering SGX is a 3D GPU, you'd assume it could stretch at 400x240 texture to 800x480 too | 03:23 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah definitely | 03:23 |
| blizzow | I installed the telnet client today and suddenly, the SMS application does not display contact information. Anyone know what might be going on here? I've rebooted a couple of times and that has not helped. | 03:23 |
| ShadowJK | DSS is purpose built, SGX/3D/GPU can theoretically do the same thing but will be much more inefficient at it | 03:24 |
| lcuk | is the LCD controller chip inside the omap or like the old n8x0 with an external one | 03:27 |
| lcuk | (was it epson) | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah it was epson | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | And I think DSS is out LCD controller | 03:27 |
| derf | SpeedEvil: Yeah, I think the DSP by itself may only be 1W. But that's still huge. | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | our* | 03:27 |
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| derf | ... and more than an order of magnitude less than a P4 (or a Transmeta CPU). | 03:28 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, also, by converting to 16but RGB you lose more definition | 03:28 |
| lcuk | and people would complain of banding in movies :P | 03:28 |
| ShadowJK | derf, get some real world power consumption readings of playing video, it's about 1W *total* :-) | 03:28 |
| lcuk | bit | 03:28 |
| derf | lcuk: That's what dithering is for. | 03:28 |
| lcuk | derf, YUV does not require dithering | 03:28 |
| derf | Sure it does. It's just dithering in hardware. | 03:29 |
| lcuk | and it is lower ba ndwith | 03:29 |
| derf | Or if it isn't, it's still got banding. | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | derf: yeah | 03:29 |
| lcuk | it sends data down the wire as far as it can in 24b | 03:29 |
| lcuk | the lcd itself might only be 18bit or whatever they are | 03:30 |
| jonwil | Jaffa: ping | 03:30 |
| derf | You mean in 12b. | 03:30 |
| derf | Or does it run at 4:2:2? | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | can someone remind me of the right way to reboot the DSP if it's doing the 'I can't play any video at all' thingy? | 03:31 |
| lcuk | 422 | 03:31 |
| derf | Okay, then 16b. | 03:31 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, power button | 03:31 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I was assuming that was the improper way. | 03:31 |
| lcuk | derf, no 8 bit grey, + 8 bit U + 8 bit V | 03:31 |
| derf | SpeedEvil: stop dsp/start dsp? | 03:32 |
| derf | lcuk: But you don't have 8 bits of U and V per pixel. | 03:32 |
| lcuk | sure you do | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Argh. | 03:33 |
| derf | Not if you're using 4:2:2 subsampling, you don't. | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not that - it's that BBC have changed something. | 03:33 |
| lcuk | 420*240 is true colour | 03:33 |
| derf | ... | 03:33 |
| lcuk | it is full colour, low resolution | 03:33 |
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| lcuk | derf that is the normal mode of videos since forever, and jpegs too | 03:35 |
| derf | No, most vide is 4:2:0. But no one calls it 24bpp, either. | 03:35 |
| derf | *video | 03:35 |
| derf | YUV also has about 1/4 the gamut of RGB. | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | 800mW - playing video at low volume over speakers, with LCD at minimum brightrness | 03:37 |
| derf | (well, more accurately, you lose about 2 bits in the conversion process) | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | (1.2W with mplayer) | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - meh. I now need to work ourt how to transcode videos that used to play fine. | 03:40 |
| lcuk | derf, since the lcd cannot display 24bit anyway, that is not too bad | 03:40 |
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| derf | Sure. I'm just telling you that claiming it's "TrueColor" is a lie. | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcd is pretty bad at BPP | 03:41 |
| derf | They make 30-bit panels. | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | they make. yeah. The small embedded LCDs though are 12..16bpp | 03:42 |
| lcuk | derf, roger | 03:42 |
| derf | Yeah. 30-bit panels aren't cheap. | 03:42 |
| * lcuk just never notices banding | 03:42 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems N900 LCD is 15 or 16, while I suspect AV fb is like 12 | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess this LCD is a 5/6/5 | 03:44 |
| user | The N950 maybe has it. | 03:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | user: ??? | 03:50 |
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| user | A bether screen and hdmi out. | 03:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'venever had a real issue with LCD colour gamut. | 03:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | And I want VGA out! | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | HDMI is quite a large plug | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | component on RCA ;-P | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | SCART | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | SCART would just about fit along the long edge. | 03:53 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, sod that, can we have a demodulator that plugs in the back | 03:53 |
| lcuk | Amiga A500 style | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I was actually looking to make a TV modulator for n900. | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | But all the nice chips for it were EOL'd | 03:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also analog TV is getting turned off. Here it's going away in June/July. | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | DVBT-TX it's then | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | no plug \o/ | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | if we can do FMTX so why we can't do DVBT-TX | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's actually a good use made of DSP ;-P | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | dvb-tx would be fun. | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but please with >>5nW | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't want to use a remote to control the N9N+ sitting next to TV's antenna receptacle | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | at very least a 5m should be design goal | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | given the digital nature of DVBT there's little to no concern about long range interference with public broadcast DVBT | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Much less. | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | The rationale for interference on FM is valid. | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, somewhat | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It takes a really teeny amount of power to disrupt a signal that's at the edge of coverage, and make it much worse. | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I don't give a f...art | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | DVB-T - less so. | 04:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | when it starts that my torch flashlight has stronger EMI than the FM-TX of my N900, then it's at edge of trifle | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 04:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | Anyone with a video encoding clue? ffmpeg says of the input stream - | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264 (Main), yuv420p, 640x360 [PAR 90:90 DAR 16:9], 698 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 50 tbc | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought the n900 could do h264 | 04:14 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, did you happen to see this earlier: http://pastebin.com/RTP1bUDT | 04:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: no. I admit I'm scratching my head trying to figure what that means | 04:27 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, me too | 04:27 |
| lcuk | it surprised me immensely | 04:27 |
| lcuk | since world + dog says that file system is slower on meego | 04:28 |
| lcuk | and that is the main difference I think | 04:28 |
| lcuk | I doubt the compiler itself gained 50% optimisations | 04:28 |
| lcuk | and the variations on maemo side are me trying different combinations of partitions to store onto | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I neither understand completely what's written there, nor do I think it's giving a good proof of anything, without proper explanation of the whole setup and tests done | 04:30 |
| lcuk | sure, it is certianly not scientific | 04:30 |
| lcuk | I just got build-essential + the -dev libs required and ran make | 04:31 |
| lcuk | on both maemo and meego | 04:31 |
| * lcuk should make a set of liq* specific tests :) | 04:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, seems to me a more standardized testbed would help a lot. Like e.g. use the absolutely identical source that uses the identical includes etc | 04:32 |
| lcuk | it was identical source | 04:32 |
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| lcuk | but obviously using (maemo|meego) compiler and headers | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yet way too complex to assure the same process taking place, regarding all the includes which might differ significantly between OS | 04:33 |
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| lcuk | yes DocScrutinizer | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | Uh, who the hell says MeeGo filesystem is slower? | 04:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same who tell eMMC is slower than NAND I guess | 04:35 |
| ShadowJK | I think Maemo had the advantage here anyway, because default Maemo setup has stuff on NAND, offloading emmc somewhat. | 04:36 |
| ShadowJK | For comparative testing you'd have to have both Maemo and MeeGo running from the same devices | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | this comparision has way too many unknowns you'd need to define to make the whole thing a somewhat meaningful statement about anything | 04:37 |
| ShadowJK | But still, I assume his setup was slanted in favour of Maemo, which makes brtfs' win all the more impressive :-) | 04:37 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, it was from the same device | 04:38 |
| lcuk | I booted meego, and just happened to time a build | 04:38 |
| lcuk | then got curious and booted same device to maemo | 04:38 |
| lcuk | and repeated | 04:38 |
| ShadowJK | So you've got Maemo running on MicroSD then? | 04:38 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, no | 04:39 |
| lcuk | normal system | 04:39 |
| ShadowJK | This is what I meant | 04:39 |
| ShadowJK | I didn't mean device as in "N900" | 04:39 |
| ShadowJK | but device as in NAND, emmc, microsd | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd use a 10liner shellscript to mkdir;cp $fn N$fn; fn=$Nfn | 04:39 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, the problem is that meego slow bootup speed has been attributed to the filesystem | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | for {fn=2000; fn>0; fn--) | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth along that line | 04:40 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, so does it run faster with ext3? | 04:40 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: why 10? | 04:40 |
| lcuk | what confused me was just that building this library on meego I was expecting it to be slower | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, you can pack everything into one line, always | 04:41 |
| luke-jr | for i in {10..1}; let j=i+1; mv $i $j; done | 04:41 |
| lcuk | I don't know why | 04:41 |
| lcuk | but on meego it ran like shit off a shovel | 04:41 |
| lcuk | and meego has cpu freq at 500mhz | 04:41 |
| lcuk | it SHOULD be slower | 04:41 |
| lcuk | (I am really pleased it is not, but that is beside the point) | 04:42 |
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| ShadowJK | lcuk, in reality I think the problem is that neither ext3 nor btrfs are tuned for flash based storage in any way (well btrfs somewhat, but it's mostly for SSD type storage, which is probably more harmful than useful for flash), and Maemo only accidentally rather than by design avoids driving the emmc/microsd into utter slowass operation.. Actually under Maemo you can hit the slow-as-molasses situations too by trying to extract easy-debian, for example.. | 04:42 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, yes, I use n900 itself to extract meego images using dd | 04:43 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if the SD committe will do something useful and define TRIM | 04:43 | |
| lcuk | and that operation takes just under an hour | 04:43 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, trim is kinda useless when most controllers (intra-SD ones) are so braindead they wouldn't have one fucking clue what to do with trim | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I am unsure. I've read conflicting things about SD controllers. | 04:44 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, well it's the software on them that makes the difference, and most of it is braindead | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | They seem to have at least arm cortex class CPU on them according to reports I've seen. | 04:44 |
| ShadowJK | except maybe sandisk, but sandisk has been saying "Our ExtremeFFS technology kicks ass" for years, it's just that they're trying to monetize it so hard that they've actually sold about 0 copies of it so far, when it really should be sitting in every SD card they're selling... | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | In practice - for many apps - flash smartness is quite unimportant. | 04:46 |
| ShadowJK | Not that I'm saying sandisk cards are shit, they're about 5 magnitudes of performance better than Kingston, but it could be so much better if the industry tried to get their shit together. | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | It doesn't help noticably for recording large contiguous files | 04:46 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, if you consider one single app in isolation, sure, it's extremely unimportant | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | For OS use, it's not so great. | 04:47 |
| ShadowJK | But you've got like 100 processes running, and each one creates IO load :-) | 04:47 |
| ShadowJK | whether they intend to or not | 04:47 |
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| * SpeedEvil mehs. | 04:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | I should really have gotten on with that swap lineariser idea. | 04:48 |
| ShadowJK | :-) | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | nbd client, that fakes a block device on a file. | 04:48 |
| ShadowJK | https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/KernelConsolidation/Projects/FlashDeviceMapper :-) | 04:49 |
| ShadowJK | I have no clue who linaro is, what they do, but they seem to know more about flash, and trying to do something about it, than companies that have been trying to use flash for years... | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Sort-of. | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | But not quite. | 04:50 |
| ShadowJK | That nokia hacked N900 kernel is somewhat swap-linear actually :-) | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically, for swap, for obvious reasons, you can drop the whole persistant block mapping shit. | 04:50 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah | 04:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Which does wonders for complexity. | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: see, meego might use different fs tuning settings (see swappolube et al) | 04:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also 'Finally, the superblock records its own age as an increasing 32 bit number, and a checksum. ' | 04:51 |
| ShadowJK | N900 kernel keeps track of "biggest free area", and writes sequentially there, and when exhausted, jumps to next "biggest free are". As time goes on, these free areas shrink to stupidly small in size, and you hit the classic "my device suddenly feels slower after 2-3 days uptime, what's going on?" | 04:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ideally, you don't want to do that, if you can avoid it, as you want to not ensure 100% of the time (well - 50%) incrementing the superblock counter will require a block erase | 04:52 |
| ShadowJK | Swappolube people are kinda funny. They're on the extremes of "maximum interactivity, minimum throughput", and "maximum throughput, minimum interactivity", and randomly flip parameters between the two extremes :D | 04:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have wondered about truly stupid hacks. | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | 500 8M swapfiles | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | and you swapoff as each one fills. | 04:54 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, possibly, either way, pleasantly surprised and given urge to find out more | 04:54 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! Can /usr/lib/microb-engine/libxul.so be safely moved (on a running system) to somewhere, then have that path symlink to the new path? | 04:54 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, from a performance point of view, the swap storage becomes slow long before it's "filled" | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | stop microb | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 04:54 |
| ShadowJK | "The superblock is stored in first allocation group on the medium, but may be at changing addresses within the allocation group. Only the superblock with the highest version number and a valid checksum gets used when mounting the medium. " | 04:54 |
| ebzzry | stop it first? Then move it then start it again? | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: By filled, I mean that it has completed a linear write | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | ebzzry: yes | 04:55 |
| ShadowJK | This is kinda clever actually. Some cards have extra optimization for the first allocation group :-) | 04:55 |
| ebzzry | Thanks. Since we're on that, what other things are stoppable? | 04:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ebzzry: risk of bootloop | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 04:56 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: Uh oh. | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - and killall browser 3 times, seperated by 20s should kill browser | 04:57 |
| ebzzry | How high is the risk? | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Between 0 and 1 | 04:57 |
| lcuk | ebzzry, what are you muching about for? | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ebzzry: unclear | 04:57 |
| ebzzry | I'm trying to free rootfs space. | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | A fair fraction of the running processes have watchdogs. | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Why? | 04:58 |
| ebzzry | I almost ran out of it. | 04:58 |
| lcuk | ebzzry, backup your data now. | 04:58 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer is right ;) | 04:58 |
| lcuk | then if you do move the wrong thing | 04:58 |
| lcuk | you can restore it :) | 04:59 |
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| ebzzry | Ya. I did. Fortunately I do routine backups. | 04:59 |
| ebzzry | Does GCC touch rootfs? | 04:59 |
| ebzzry | If yes, approximately how much? | 04:59 |
| lcuk | yes, dev tools are not optified | 04:59 |
| lcuk | large | 04:59 |
| lcuk | build-essential is 70mb I believe | 05:00 |
| ebzzry | Ohh | 05:00 |
| lcuk | it has been historically one of the largest packagegroups to eat it and not be shouted at because it is not designed for on device use | 05:00 |
| ebzzry | But then I need gcc because I need bigloo/chicken. | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | DOING IT WRONG. | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | cp / to /home/user/copy | 05:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | cd /home/user/copy;chroot . bash | 05:01 |
| lcuk | ebzzry, cat /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf | 05:02 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get install gcc | 05:02 |
| ebzzry | hmm. | 05:02 |
| lcuk | i normally add things like /usr/include in there | 05:02 |
| ebzzry | Let me try that. | 05:02 |
| lcuk | use the example command it will show space | 05:02 |
| lcuk | adding a line into that file and rebooting will try to optify it | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | That way you have no concerns about space on / | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | And borking your system by installing wierd shit. | 05:03 |
| lcuk | you have backups and your own confidence of what to change though. | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | And no concerns about backups or anything. | 05:03 |
| ebzzry | OK. Got that. | 05:03 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, can that chroot be stored on /home/user/MyDocs? | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: no | 05:03 |
| lcuk | shame | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: vfat and shizzle. | 05:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I resized mydocs to 4G though | 05:04 |
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| lcuk | ebzzry, http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/README | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I gather maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf as well can cause bootloop, no? | 05:05 |
| ebzzry | lcuk: copy | 05:06 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, it like any other file system operation can be broken by misconfiguration and editing | 05:06 |
| lcuk | it requires root and ebzzry is already doing the same process by hand | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I meant like optifying /usr | 05:06 |
| lcuk | these scripts just try best to do it and document as much as possible | 05:07 |
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| lcuk | we never tested that far | 05:07 |
| lcuk | I shall tell you now, hold on | 05:07 |
| lcuk | mmm I will do /usr/share actually first ;) | 05:08 |
| ebzzry | (Side note: It's just now that I've been to maemo.gitorious.org, and gah, it's very difficult to read the gray text! y u no black?) | 05:08 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/raw/master/README | 05:09 |
| ebzzry | Thanks, even it tells my browser to store it locally. | 05:11 |
| ebzzry | By the way, is moving /opt/maemo to /media/mmc1/*somewhere*, then have a symlink, safe? | 05:11 |
| ebzzry | (Why do I want to do that? Because I'm running out of optfs space) | 05:11 |
| lcuk | ebzzry, lol | 05:12 |
| lcuk | what have you got installed? | 05:12 |
| lcuk | sounds like a phat maemo system | 05:12 |
| ebzzry | Not that much actually, but I think I have plenty in ~/ | 05:12 |
| ebzzry | I also have emacs which weighs in almost 100MB | 05:12 |
| lcuk | I used to have to clear out loads from / | 05:12 |
| lcuk | that was where the optify-boottime script came from | 05:13 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, it is booting with /usr/share only | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: mount rootfs atime; bindmount a copy of /usr (/opt/usr) ove /usr when mounting all the /opt rocks. have a *hard*link to /usr and later check that /usrTOO which files got touched during boot | 05:13 |
| lcuk | and it is unwinding the filesystem | 05:13 |
| ebzzry | I even moved ~/.cache, ~/.thumbnails, and ~/.modest to to /media/mmc1 (ext2), but then I was having issues when I plug the device to a host machine: I had to kill the processes using those directories. | 05:14 |
| lcuk | it reached a desktop | 05:14 |
| lcuk | but themes are not there | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sanitize those to live in /* rather than /usr/* | 05:14 |
| lcuk | hand on, just curing it | 05:14 |
| ebzzry | I digressed. Back to my question: is moving /opt/maemo to /media/mmc1/*somewhere*, then have a symlink, safe? | 05:14 |
| ShadowJK | I dont think so | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | unclear | 05:15 |
| ShadowJK | themes and fonts are there... | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly not | 05:15 |
| ShadowJK | and microsd gets mounted after UI is started, so...... | 05:15 |
| ebzzry | What gets mounted first? /media/mmc1 or /opt? | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | -->bootloop | 05:15 |
| ebzzry | Ah, that answers it then. | 05:15 |
| ebzzry | Not good. | 05:15 |
| ebzzry | Does the external card get mounted last? | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah wait, opt. that's no diff to mmc1 | 05:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ebzzry: aiui both get mounted ~same moment | 05:17 |
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| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: the same? | 05:17 |
| ebzzry | around the same | 05:17 |
| ShadowJK | I think mmc1 gets mounted long after UI has started... Atleast with my ext3 mmc1 card I get the "corrupted mmc" message long after UI has started :-) | 05:17 |
| ebzzry | But technically, when looking at the mount scripts, what gets mounted first? | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | but why would you want to move things from /opt to uSD? | 05:18 |
| ebzzry | Because I have cowabunga stuff in /opt, like Emacs (~90MB) and CCL (~90MB), too. | 05:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Make /home bigger then | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? | 05:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 05:19 |
| ebzzry | so what? <- In prepartion of lcuk's stuff? | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | if 2GB is too small, resize it | 05:20 |
| ebzzry | OK. | 05:20 |
| ShadowJK | I'd look at moving emacs to microsd, because atleast emacs isn't boot critical | 05:20 |
| ebzzry | Wee! I'd like to do that with /opt/maemo/usr/share/texmf* too! | 05:21 |
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| lcuk | I suppse this is where btrfs (or the idea of it is cool | 05:25 |
| lcuk | just being able to insert a new partition to grow the filesystem | 05:25 |
| jonwil | Jaffa: ping | 05:26 |
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| ebzzry | I forgot the name of the project, but treating directories like partitions has plenty of potentials. The horrors of creating/deleting a directory tree with thousands of small files is unforgettable. When it behaves like a partition, we can just have a: "create_new_fs <directory>" | 05:27 |
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| bennym | I need help setting up USB networking between an N900 and a Windows computer. http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Starting_USB_network_mode_with_Windows | 05:30 |
| bennym | That page says "MADDE ... not required ... just files maemo_usbnet.inf and maemo_usbnet.cat". Where can I get those files and what do I do with them? | 05:31 |
| bennym | I don't have the bandwidth to download all of MADDE | 05:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I thought that's called LVM | 05:35 |
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| jonwil | so no-one knows what time of the day is the best time to catch Jaffa online? | 05:38 |
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| ShadowJK | btrfs takes llvm and raid into the filesystem itself | 05:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=jaffa+has+joined | 05:51 |
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| MaKa | packages in repos appear smaller in size than they once appeared;much smaller that even optification could justify.. | 06:03 |
| MaKa | any thoughts on it? | 06:03 |
| MaKa | like FM radio receiver was once 6.6 MB seems now to be just 867kb | 06:03 |
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| MaKa | and Advanced power monitor is incredibly small-just 14 kb | 06:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MaKa: according to what? | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MaKa: I guess you're talking about size needed to install, and that's probably reported including all the dependencies | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a second install, all the dependencies are already there so don't need any 'new' space | 06:09 |
| MaKa | oh,Thanks for the clarification DocScrutinizer | 06:10 |
| MaKa | But i never got those two apps work at the second install. | 06:10 |
| MaKa | never after that. | 06:10 |
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| MaKa | But i am avtually not talking about the size needed to install. | 06:11 |
| MaKa | i am talking about the size of the file that is to be downloaded. | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I recall a few days ago I tried to install FM radio while on a walk. It failed, and then I noticed it already been installed, nevertheless it tried to install again | 06:12 |
| MaKa | http://www.allaboutmeego.com/features/item/How_to_unlock_the_FM_radio_on_the_Nokia_N900.php | 06:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | so maybe you're actually on something there | 06:13 |
| MaKa | this link shows the size of the app to be 6.6mb | 06:13 |
| MaKa | but the repos give me only 869 kb. ' | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | where? | 06:14 |
| MaKa | But i am trying to install this after uninstalling DocScrutinizer | 06:14 |
| cehteh | non stripped? | 06:15 |
| MaKa | So i think this is not trying to install which is already installed. | 06:15 |
| MaKa | when i use apt-get, only some 869kn is downloaded, | 06:15 |
| MaKa | *kb | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I can't find any useful info on the link you gave above | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and also I suggest to generally use HAM instead of apt-get | 06:16 |
| MaKa | didn't you check the video on that link? | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, video | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | this video shows some 3rd hand info of maybe decades ago | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | worthless | 06:17 |
| MaKa | oh,okay. | 06:17 |
| MaKa | :P | 06:17 |
| MaKa | then my new error now after using HAM is Error: cannot load radio driver module, | 06:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm fed up with that site when I read "secret radio that's not in the specs" | 06:18 |
| MaKa | Yeah which sounds too much of a lie and exaggeration | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, it's even written on the box of N900 | 06:19 |
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| MaKa | DocScrutinizer: check this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55710 | 06:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | check for what? | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | see if it's entertaining? | 06:20 |
| MaKa | will this be possible? | 06:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (btw sorry, the box writing only mentions the FMTX, not the FMRX) | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | possible that a tmo thread is entertaining? nah, almost impossible | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 06:22 |
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| MaKa_ | someone has said there they rectified this on downgrading power-kernel | 06:24 |
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| MaKa_ | not entertaining,but informative? | 06:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm not regularly going to check random stuff of unspecified topic, to see if it might contain useful info | 06:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | see, I can't follow 700 other people and check everything they find interesting for one reason or another, just to see if it actually is or not | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you want my feedback, you have to break it down for me so I might decide in advance if it's worth my time | 06:31 |
| MaKa_ | Yeah i understand you DocScrutinizer . | 06:32 |
| MaKa_ | And sorry for that annoying video link | 06:32 |
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| delt | Hello | 06:48 |
| delt | uh, quick question... when the n810 is plugged to a PC's usb port, does it STILL use/drain the battery? | 06:48 |
| delt | anyway, shitting up all my ba...uh backing up all my sh...uh nm | 06:51 |
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| chx | hm, the n810 had a separate charger port didnt it | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: good question, lemme check that | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, yup. Definitely my N810 doesn't take power from USB, so obviously needs battery (and/or power plug) to work | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | FFS, tepco raised dosage limt to 150mSv for their at-site workers | 06:57 |
| user | Is that good or bad? | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | now it starts getting nasty, while until now it's been more a sissi thing with radiation in the uSv/h | 06:57 |
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| someoneelse | DocScrutinizer: Do you disagree with them doing so? | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme put it this way: 1000mSv are really something you'll notice quite immediately | 06:59 |
| someoneelse | I would belive it is more important to limit the radiation than to loose a few workers. | 06:59 |
| someoneelse | You said 150mSv | 06:59 |
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| someoneelse | 6000 mSv will kill most people witin a month | 07:00 |
| someoneelse | If you get it at once | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | within hours | 07:00 |
| chx | yes what it matters how long you are exposed | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | chx: well, similar to sunburn, yes | 07:01 |
| someoneelse | If I get exposed to 6000mSv in 100 years I would probably be OK. | 07:01 |
| someoneelse | It is a diffrence between showering and drowning. | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ot doesn't matter if you catch that dosage during one second or one day, but you might (and will) see less severe effects when distributed over 10 days | 07:02 |
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| someoneelse | What choice do they have? If they let it be, more people will die from cancer later. | 07:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure. Just a significant change in their published notion about the event. But meh, I heard yesterday tepco asked the prime minister to allow they abandon the whole fucku-I as they felt like not getting anything done anymore. I'd not like to know what they got told | 07:07 |
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| delt | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 07:08 |
| delt | uh.... fetching adapter ASAFP :/ | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: btw that's the significan difference when flashing: N8x0 doesn't boot up on plugging in to USB | 07:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | while our NPP crews here, when interviewed, state "Of course I'd stay at site, no matter how dangerous or even fatal. That's my job" | 07:12 |
| delt | heh thanks again for the tip... would have been moderately pissed if it failed at 97% ...!! | 07:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 07:13 |
| delt | and by "moderately" i mean, CNN would probably invent the term "nukeia" | 07:14 |
| delt | jk =) | 07:14 |
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| chx | so how long before the "Fukushima 50" book hits the stores? a month? even less? movie in two years? | 07:15 |
| delt | so anyway, there's my data travelling from n810 to pc, and back to n810 in gzipped form.... and all is well, seems well =) | 07:15 |
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| delt | docscruti: thanks | 07:15 |
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| delt | Hello, just one more question .... | 07:17 |
| delt | [pts/2][root@deimos]:/media/disk-2# file 2gig.img | 07:17 |
| delt | 2gig.img: x86 boot sector; partition 1: ID=0x6, starthead 0, startsector 1, 131071 sectors; partition 2: ID=0x83, starthead 3, startsector 131072, 3530752 sectors; partition 3: ID=0x82, starthead 3, startsector 3661824, 270336 sectors, code offset 0xb8 | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, you actually met the highlight regex :-) | 07:17 |
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| delt | this machine has an ARM processor right? | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | DUH! never knew file is that smart | 07:18 |
| delt | so, put simply, why does "file", on the image of my 2gb internal memory, show it as a x86 boot? | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | boot sector, it's not meant to have any code for any particular processor, on N900 at least | 07:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MBR | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | it probably has X86 format, at least for the partition table | 07:20 |
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| chx | wont that cause a lot of confusion? isnt the endianness different? | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | uh | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | good question :-D | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously not | 07:21 |
| delt | docscrutz: first guess.... so that win...ferior systems can use the device? | 07:21 |
| chx | x86 is little, but ARM was always both | 07:21 |
| chx | uh | 07:22 |
| chx | DEbian ARMEL | 07:22 |
| chx | i was obviously not thinking | 07:22 |
| chx | that el is endian little? | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ARMel | 07:22 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 07:22 |
| delt | what the tel | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | endian-little? | 07:22 |
| chx | i am just guessing the endiannes of the N900 :) | 07:22 |
| MohammadAG | what el stands for | 07:22 |
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| chx | ARM was both since the dawn of tiem but i gues the N900 is little as the x86? | 07:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | armEL | 07:23 |
| MohammadAG | I thought it was ARMel | 07:24 |
| delt | bzip2'ing image, just to see the resulting filesize | 07:24 |
| delt | INTARM!! | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | just emphasizing the Endian-Little | 07:25 |
| delt | so yeah, this idea of using the n810's internal 256mb as "backup" boot partition, and the other 2gb one as main ... works quite well!! | 07:26 |
| delt | epsecially with a vfat formatted SD card | 07:26 |
| delt | well, micro SD / tflash in a minisd adapter, but works like i said, quite well | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | could you postpone your posts until my reconnect happend? ;-D | 07:27 |
| delt | reconnect as in isp? | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | i.e. some ~240s | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 07:28 |
| delt | 4 minutes? well, 3:30something now...? | 07:28 |
| delt | k waiting | 07:28 |
| MohammadAG | Time for IRC ping pong | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | depending on my RTC it can't be long until | 07:28 |
| MohammadAG | or not, channel's logged, damn! | 07:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | sheduled for 6:30 but clock often is fast | 07:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 07:29 |
| MohammadAG | say something when you're disconnected :P | 07:29 |
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| delt | mohammad hahahaha something like "my 71 virgins are great, but one is missing" ? | 07:30 |
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| delt | and "69 of them are male wtf???" | 07:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya, it's a bit early | 07:30 |
| delt | docscrut: wb | 07:30 |
| delt | 01:30 < MohammadAG> say something when you're disconnected :P | 07:31 |
| delt | 01:31 < delt> mohammad hahahaha something like "my 71 virgins are great, but one is missing" ? | 07:31 |
| delt | 01:31 < delt> and "69 of them are male wtf???" | 07:31 |
| delt | as you see, havent missed much :3 | 07:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 07:31 |
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| delt | recently i've been going nuts on microSD cards.... *sigh* i HAVE to start putting labels on my sd cards GAAAAAH | 07:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder how you boot from 2GB on N810 | 07:33 |
| delt | /media/disk-* just doesnt cut it, unless i do 'df' to see the size of each mounted fs | 07:33 |
| delt | DocScrutinizer: yeah, was just wondering the name of the command (for the boot loader) ....started with the initials of the fellow who worte it iirc | 07:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 07:35 |
| delt | anyway, i can ls -l /media/whatever/bin/ > ~www/miscjunk/somelist.txt or whatever, but that wouldnt be much help i guess | 07:35 |
| delt | personally, i wouldnt mind rewriting the boot loader thing myself, so it times out after X seconds instead of waiting forever..... | 07:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ls/ln/? | 07:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | still wondering | 07:37 |
| delt | was a simple script that used ncurses 'dialog' iirc | 07:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, maybe something exploiting that preinit hook, like rescueboot | 07:38 |
| delt | quite use^H^H^Hjackass friendly =( | 07:38 |
| delt | =) | 07:38 |
| MohammadAG | delt, I'm still not sure who came up with that 7* virgin bullshit :P | 07:38 |
| MohammadAG | but anyway, OT here | 07:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, iirc we had that on diablo, while it vanished for early fremantle versions? | 07:38 |
| MohammadAG | where's dialog on fremantle? | 07:40 |
| delt | i thought it was that islam "prophet" who ripped off the first 5-6 books of the Bible and had some "illumination" | 07:40 |
| delt | or was that bouddha (sidharta gutama or something) | 07:40 |
| MohammadAG | well, no, it wasn't | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | please no religion topics here | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't comment on those ;-P | 07:41 |
| delt | well, the founder of islam clearly based himself on Gen... uh ok sorry | 07:41 |
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| delt | <--- stfu :D | 07:41 |
| delt | otoh, beer is good | 07:41 |
| MohammadAG | unrelated to religion, but why would someone even need 71/2 virgins... | 07:41 |
| delt | unrelated to religion, beer is good =) | 07:42 |
| delt | :D | 07:42 |
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| MohammadAG | I'm sure everyone agrees | 07:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | my cDc is not exactly debatable, and also largely unknown a religion ;-D | 07:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and MohammadAG, quite obviously nobody needs 71 half virgins ;-D | 07:43 |
| delt | i was (and would be) very happy with 1, even if she isn't / wasn't technically "virgin" ... | 07:43 |
| MohammadAG | well, exactly, wtf would you do with 7w | 07:44 |
| delt | so any middle eastern suicide bomber could take away the 71 other ones and i wouldnt gaff | 07:44 |
| delt | ok sorry | 07:44 |
| delt | that was rather offensive, and i aplog*ZAP* | 07:44 |
| delt | ok so there was a thunder storm..... how yall doin :D | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: (beer is good) nah, there's also Heineken, and what's that called? mayer's? | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Miller's | 07:46 |
| delt | uh.... i like heineken, but if you want to buy it, any store in Canada you go to the beer dept. -) | 07:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | and tha fake Budweisser | 07:47 |
| delt | even, heineken is quite very very tasty in fact | 07:47 |
| delt | most ppl say im stupid when i "confess" this, but heineken and mexican corona have a similar (and very good) taste | 07:48 |
| delt | some are like, wtf?? heineken is horse piss! corona is the real cerveza!! and vice versa | 07:49 |
| delt | vice verveza :D | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | corona, well once a month | 07:49 |
| delt | still bzipping... whoa :? | 07:50 |
| delt | i like both, personally | 07:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I prefer our worl class Germen breweries | 07:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | german even | 07:50 |
| delt | MohammadAG btw really sorry about that out-of-color comment about terrorist bombers :( :( :( | 07:51 |
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| delt | sprichst du eigentlich deutsch? | 07:51 |
| delt | <--- hab ein wenigh deutsch in der schule gelernt =) auch wohnte 4 jahren in deutschland / schewitz als ich junge war | 07:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, a Canadian who knows German | 07:53 |
| delt | aber seit etwa 3-4 jahren hatte ich keine gelegenheit, mit jemand die sprache zu üben :( :( :( | 07:53 |
| someoneelse | delt: Ich sprichst eigentlich deutsch | 07:53 |
| delt | someoneelse: toll, wo hast du es gelertnt? | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | lease stop that | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | please | 07:54 |
| someoneelse | delt: Ich haben nicht | 07:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer points at the wonders of /query | 07:54 | |
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| delt | (hinweis: ich "spreche", ich "habe) | 07:54 |
| someoneelse | DocScrutinizer: You could always ignore me again :P | 07:55 |
| someoneelse | DocScrutinizer: I don't speak a single word of german. Your grammar is fucked up. | 07:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not supposed to ignore inadequate behaviour in this channel | 07:55 |
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| delt | docscru yeah mein vater war in der luftwaft von kanada als ich geboren bin, und dann 4 jahren in Lahr, west-deutschland gestellt. | 07:56 |
| someoneelse | delt: Oh noes, how did they caputer you? | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | please stick to English, as that's the preferred language of this channel. It's considered rude to the other users to use any other language than English | 07:57 |
| delt | <--- bawrn in awttwa, grawn up in dawtcchlaynd!) | 07:57 |
| delt | DocScrutinizer: numai viêh (jk) | 07:57 |
| someoneelse | delt: So why where your father in the air-something? Why didn't you stay at your birthplace to go to Lahr? | 07:58 |
| delt | uh sorry that would be (g)nu mai (m'dai) viêh | 07:58 |
| delt | someoneelse: cause my parents "could have" just dump me in a sewer and then 4 years later check if i was still there, but... =) | 07:59 |
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| someoneelse | English is your second language? | 07:59 |
| delt | *raises hand* | 07:59 |
| delt | uh was that a global "to everone" question? | 08:00 |
| someoneelse | Nope, just you. Your grammar was interessting. And I know German grammar is illogical | 08:00 |
| delt | well, like i said im a canuck frenchie... so my native lang. is fr | 08:01 |
| delt | 2nd english 3d german (or the other way around) | 08:01 |
| delt | though im better at eng. id consider it my "third" language, since i was exposed to .de first, THEN learned english | 08:02 |
| delt | anyway, we each have our own personal history | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yuck French. I completely forgot tout que j'avais aprendu about that in school | 08:03 |
| delt | appris =) | 08:04 |
| delt | though your thought process is logical | 08:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's the smiley for puking | 08:04 |
| delt | and fr is ...... uh... yeah, logical :/ | 08:05 |
| delt | especially our demented, crazy mangled version of it in the eastern canadian provinces | 08:05 |
| delt | 10 times worse =) | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 08:05 |
| delt | hey, bz2 managed to compress the entire 2gb (something like 90% full) to like 1gb on the sd card :D !! | 08:06 |
| delt | (imaged the whole fs, not mount & cd, then tar -czvf . /wherever/bleh.tar.gz) | 08:07 |
| delt | s/gz/bz2/ | 08:08 |
| infobot | delt meant: (imaged the whole fs, not mount & cd, then tar -czvf . /wherever/bleh.tar.bz2) | 08:08 |
| *** user is now known as lolcat | 08:08 | |
| delt | uh thanks bot :D | 08:08 |
| delt | yeah i remember that bot was smart =) | 08:08 |
| delt | could do most common sed commands | 08:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 08:09 |
| infobot | thanks, DocScrutinizer | 08:09 |
| delt | hahaha | 08:09 |
| delt | ~help | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 08:09 |
| delt | got a whole bunch of ...uh, info in a /msg window =) | 08:09 |
| delt | which might be helpful in the future, never know heh | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | she's smart, obedient, and furious | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~attack delt | 08:10 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing delt | 08:10 | |
| delt | whoa.... he's a it.. uh, it's a he, i mean she... ??? | 08:10 |
| delt | ~gender | 08:11 |
| infobot | I'm male | 08:11 |
| delt | ~gener | 08:11 |
| delt | ~gender | 08:11 |
| infobot | I'm female | 08:11 |
| delt | tss | 08:11 |
| delt | ~gender | 08:11 |
| delt | ~gender | 08:11 |
| delt | ~gender | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 08:11 |
| delt | ~othergender | 08:11 |
| delt | ~sexualorientation | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~rape delt | 08:12 |
| * infobot takes delt behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams | 08:12 | |
| delt | ~i_am_not_into_bots_even_female_ones | 08:12 |
| delt | even tho i did meet a beautiful chick in a "wal-mart" outfit at the store earlier today, said she was just back from work | 08:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe it's been infobot? ;-D | 08:13 |
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| delt | hahaha yeah, she uh... i mean it, had the face of a bot :D | 08:13 |
| delt | so, no wonder she bought petr-oil, vaseline, and anti-freeze! | 08:14 |
| delt | DocScrutinizer: you live in germany? what time is it there (or where else you live)? | 08:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, to early | 08:15 |
| delt | vi chpêt ist èsse | 08:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | you accidentally switched to a weird keyboard layout? | 08:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | looks like somebody trying to use a dvorak kbd | 08:18 |
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| delt | uh yeah, can yo.... uh i mean yêäh, çàn yôü hèlp më pût ït bàçk?!?? | 08:18 |
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| delt | damn, i knew i should have added those ~a ~n etc. spanish letters to my überkustomeizt-kihbordläyaut | 08:21 |
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| delt | k anyway, its about 2:24 am.... good night, bonne nuit, good night, magandang gabi, buenas noches, sous'dei dêt tau, etc etc ..... | 08:23 |
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| delt | s/tau/teü/ | 08:23 |
| infobot | delt meant: k anyway, its about 2:24 am.... good night, bonne nuit, good night, magandang gabi, buenas noches, sous'dei dêt teü, etc etc ..... | 08:23 |
| delt | /infobot thx a lot now stfu plz? | 08:24 |
| delt | ok, cya all gnite | 08:24 |
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| yigal | I wish there was a computer I felt was worth investing in | 08:54 |
| yigal | just give me a 7 inch arm tablet that has a nice resistive multitouch or active digitizer screen but no we can't do that for you sir | 08:55 |
| yigal | that will run Ubuntu or some other OOS on it, but no no no that will never happen | 08:56 |
| yigal | even 10" just don't make more than a pound, anyone whose worked with mobile devices know that after a while no matter how light your 3lb tablet is, it simply isn't after an hour of holding it | 08:57 |
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| User | hi all | 09:09 |
| RST38h | http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/Crying%20TEPCO.jpg | 09:11 |
| User | hi | 09:12 |
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| doc|home | RST38h: despite the picture, the article is from an awful, AWFUL tabloid from the UK | 09:20 |
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| RST38h | doc: I have not seen the article | 09:20 |
| doc|home | their whole thing is $item CAUSES CANCER or Immigrants are evil! | 09:20 |
| RST38h | doc: But it is TEPCO's director in the picture =) | 09:21 |
| RST38h | $item causes evil immigrant cancer! | 09:21 |
| doc|home | RST38h: different culture all the same | 09:21 |
| RST38h | Here, I have just saved them about 10-15% of paper and inkcosts! | 09:21 |
| doc|home | hehe | 09:21 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! How do I insert UTF-8 characters? | 09:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ܠكউৣઊઔਊCੴോභஇం໗๛โฬฟ丢乴使屢痢㉣ぽ걢ᚎᚏ | 09:58 |
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| someoneelse | Can I use the N900 as a bluetooth headset for another phone? | 10:05 |
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| robbiethe1st | Possibly, but I bet it'll be laggy | 10:06 |
| RST38h | Doc, why are YOU of all people talkingUnicode now? | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: that's been at me? | 10:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wow, finally. "LIVE" video from FUCKU-I | 10:15 |
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| RST38h | Doc: URL? | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | none available | 10:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | TV | 10:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | showing a closeup of fire brigades properly hosing #3 SFP | 10:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw I still have no highlight set on 'doc:' | 10:22 |
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| RST38h | Ah | 10:23 |
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| RST38h | http://www.ladyada.net/pub/research.html <=== the police note, ah, the police note! | 10:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL, always thought at MIT they are a bit smarter even in the management | 10:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jet taken out over Benghasi. Most think it's one of Gadafi's, some think it's rebel's. I wonder if it's been a french jet ;-P | 10:39 |
| RST38h | Doc:No, not really. And they are really spooked by all the students too | 10:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/aij/110319FukushimaEventStatus-14e.pdf >>hydrogen of SFP exploded<< :-S | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Status of Fukushima I at 16:00 on 18 March read "exposed" instead "exploded" | 10:47 |
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| RST38h | Doc: afaik #4 building is gone | 10:51 |
| RST38h | there was a photo somewhere | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/world/japan_earthquake/wide_img/img/reactors976x550_3.jpg | 10:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | block #5 #6 >>Vent hole opened on rooftop to prevent hydrogen explosion | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | even those lies called official reports are really scary ->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Fukushima_nuclear_accidents#cite_note-JAIF_status_20110317_1600-72 - esp when comparing then one after the other and watch the changes | 11:33 |
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| jonwil | Jaffa: ping | 11:39 |
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| RST38h | ...lists a total of 63 persons with the title of "President" as well as [DATA EXPUNGED] title O5. The signal then changes from ASCII to an as-yet undeciphered format, listing an estimated 7 more names. | 11:42 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: because it's nuclear power station explosion that caused earthquake and tsunami | 11:42 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: isn't it? | 11:42 |
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| Venemo | good morning | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, we're yet to see the really good blast. I doubt the facts listed in those jaf status reports a lot. For example when they inject seawater into pressure vessel / core since days, then I'd expect those reactors safe, and also lots of steam escaping from all 3 buildings. But they say they even stopped containment venting, so what's going to happen with that sea water injected into those few m^3 core pressure vessel | 11:47 |
| jacekowski | it's going to blow up | 11:47 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: as time goes down, decay heat reduces. | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess they're feed seawater to core by the teaspoon | 11:48 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: yeah, but it takes like couple months for it to reduce to reasonable values | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | At some point, decay heat will reduce far enough that conduction can validly cool the core, to the point at which the pressure vessel can shut the valves | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, of course that's mere BS & lies | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | i think it is that single rod produces 25W after 90 days | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | It's IIRC been reported at a percent now. | 11:49 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: of power while it's fully on load | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: that's still lot of heat | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is 14 megawatts or so. | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | it's like 10MW | 11:49 |
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| jacekowski | you can create local summer with that sort of heat | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, 10MW, for at least 60 days | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | that's why they start to circulate that water | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | or it will heat up | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | and blow up | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | well cooling needed for at least 60 days is what they said. Not that power will stay at 10MW | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | well, that's in normal conditions | 11:51 |
| jacekowski | now parts of core are molten | 11:51 |
| jacekowski | and somewhere on bottom of reactor | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | which makes things worse | 11:51 |
| jacekowski | i suppose that would need more cold water to cool down blob of molten stuff | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, then not | 11:51 |
| jacekowski | than rods that are designed to be cooled | 11:51 |
| jacekowski | that's why i really like CANDU reactors | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't like any reactor | 11:52 |
| jacekowski | you're german | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | except fusion | 11:52 |
| jacekowski | i've heard you are so scared of nuclear electricity that you are closing down all nuclear power stations in couple years | 11:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fission is an incredible mess and dirt | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd hope we did | 11:53 |
| SpeedEvil | If I've got the numbers right, at 14Mw, there is about 50Kw/m^2 of heat from the reactor vessel. | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I hope those fsckers that built and operated them, will eat the nuklear waste | 11:54 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: coal is worse than nuclear | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then, what to do with those fukkers | 11:54 |
| jacekowski | long term effects of one nuclear power station exploding every 10 years | 11:54 |
| jacekowski | are less severe than running coal power stations all the time | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | we're planning for windparks and sun here | 11:55 |
| robbiethe1st | To be honest, I'd like to see some plants that use the nuclear waste: I mean, we've got hot pools, and need to cool it with power... why not use that power on the grid? | 11:55 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and what about night | 11:55 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: when there is no sun and no wind | 11:55 |
| robbiethe1st | Put a dome over it, run the steam through a turbine. Simple. | 11:55 |
| jacekowski | robbiethe1st: CANDU | 11:55 |
| robbiethe1st | Alright then, good | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: storage | 11:56 |
| jonwil | There are already reactor designs that can burn nuclear waste | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: where? | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | robbiethe1st: CANDU can pretty much run on any kind of nuclear fuel | 11:56 |
| robbiethe1st | Even really low grade? | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | robbiethe1st: yes | 11:56 |
| robbiethe1st | Good. | 11:56 |
| robbiethe1st | Then, start building loads of em. | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | robbiethe1st: it's designed to run on natural unenriched uraniom | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | it's running at atmospheric pressures | 11:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: in Norway, in caverns, in Alps, in batteries... | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | batteries with lead and acid | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | that have to be replaced every couple years | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: nonsense | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's WAY better technologies than lead-acid | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | and besides, have you calculated how much power you get from square meter of land | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | of sun power | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | and assuming you get sun for 12h a day | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | not here, in Sahara | 11:59 |
| robbiethe1st | Like what? Best I've seen is say a liquid-sodium battery, which might work on -large- scale... but still needs to be kept hot etc. | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | then build nuclear power stations there | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | if it blows up there | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a pan-european project under way | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | nobody will care about some niggers glowing at night | 11:59 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: a wok? | 12:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 12:00 |
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| jacekowski | and you're risking that shit like it's happening now will cut you from electricity | 12:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm not talking about chinese food | 12:00 |
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| jacekowski | me neither | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: lame argument | 12:01 |
| jacekowski | and even then | 12:01 |
| jacekowski | you get 12h of sun a day | 12:01 |
| robbiethe1st | Let me just say this: If we can build some sort of converter that can convert heat energy to electricity effeciently at temperatures <80F, that would solve a lot of problems. But without something like that, solar panels and other renewable energy just won't cut it everywhere. Hydro would, and does... but only in limited areas. | 12:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: We can't. | 12:01 |
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| jacekowski | it's 1kW to 2kW per square meter | 12:02 |
| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: 30C-20C - say - you have a delta-t of 10K, and an efficiency of about 1/27th maximum. | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 12:02 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: rarely over 1, never over 1380 | 12:02 |
| SpeedEvil | 1.38 | 12:02 |
| robbiethe1st | SpeedEvil: Alright... | 12:03 |
| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: Carnot efficiency. | 12:03 |
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| robbiethe1st | How much energy would that generate, then? | 12:03 |
| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: 30W or so peak per square meter. | 12:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: 10W or so average, optimistically. | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | assuming safe value of 200GW that just germany uses | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | and assuming 100% efficiency at 1kW per sqare meter | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | square* | 12:04 |
| robbiethe1st | Hm. So, you could easily have 200W constant power per house, 24hrs a day. And far more during the day. Not great, but that'd be something | 12:05 |
| jacekowski | so assuming that | 12:05 |
| jacekowski | and assuming 12h of power per day | 12:05 |
| jacekowski | and that your storage is 100% efficient | 12:05 |
| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: you're assuming the solar collector is free. And that the theoretical efficiency can be achieved. | 12:05 |
| jacekowski | you would need solar power station | 12:05 |
| jacekowski | fully loaded with solar panels | 12:06 |
| robbiethe1st | SpeedEvil: Well, heat-collector, but yes, I suppose. | 12:06 |
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| jacekowski | on square of size of 20km by 20km | 12:06 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Efficiency is rarely over 20% for solar panels. | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | that makes it 44km by 44km | 12:07 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: For germany, the average insolation is _much_ below 1kw/m^2*12h | 12:07 |
| jacekowski | it gets worse when nights are longer and days are shorter | 12:08 |
| jacekowski | so imagine 100km square | 12:08 |
| jacekowski | and time it takes to install that | 12:08 |
| SpeedEvil | http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/PVcalc.php | 12:09 |
| jacekowski | i think before you got to installing first 10% of that you would have to replace first panel because it deteriorated so much | 12:09 |
| SpeedEvil | You're looking at ~1100Kwh/year per m^2 | 12:09 |
| jacekowski | error | 12:09 |
| SpeedEvil | This is ~2.5KWh/day. | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a0PwC089VU_I http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aoA1lvLbVDXU http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=desertec+siemens | 12:09 |
| SpeedEvil | And this is for a pointed panel. | 12:09 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: math says it's not going to happen | 12:10 |
| SpeedEvil | The actual horizontal space is more like optimistically 1KWh/day/m^2 | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 12:10 |
| SpeedEvil | (for large horizontal panels) | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I believe in math of Deutsche Bank bankers, more than in yours | 12:11 |
| jonwil | solar thermal seems to be a promising technology | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Knock at best 20% off that for storage. | 12:11 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: then do your math | 12:11 |
| jonwil | The idea seems to be like a solar hot water system only on a much bigger scale and with much more concentration of the heat | 12:11 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: old water pumped storage station in poland has efficiency like 75% | 12:11 |
| jonwil | so it uses the sun to boil water | 12:12 |
| jonwil | and produce steam | 12:12 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: and it was built 40 years ago | 12:12 |
| jonwil | to run a generator | 12:12 |
| jonwil | Geothemal is also a good idea IMO | 12:12 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Sure - now work out how much resovoir area you need to store 2 days * 200GW. It's a fucking huge number. | 12:12 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: so losses on storage are not that high | 12:12 |
| jacekowski | put it on the orbit | 12:12 |
| SpeedEvil | In orbit adds other huge problems. | 12:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Cost of launch, and maintainability, and rectenna size. | 12:13 |
| jacekowski | rectenna? | 12:13 |
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| jacekowski | i'm not talking about something like that | 12:14 |
| jacekowski | pumping water up and down to and from orbit | 12:14 |
| jacekowski | with long hose | 12:14 |
| SpeedEvil | A microwave antenna used for power reception | 12:14 |
| jacekowski | garden hose | 12:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - never mind, I thought you were being serious, I wasn't reading closely enough. | 12:14 |
| jacekowski | water on the orbit would have huge potential energy | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're quite funny about that | 12:15 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it is valid concept from physics point of view | 12:15 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: No, it's not. | 12:15 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Integrate gravity from geostationary orbit to ground. | 12:16 |
| jacekowski | what was it (G m1 m2)/l^2 | 12:16 |
| SpeedEvil | It is possible with single wall nanotube cables to have a cable with modest taper - say 30:1 - reaching from geosync to ground. | 12:16 |
| jacekowski | no | 12:16 |
| jacekowski | that was force between two objects | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | E.ON is one of only 5 German (err European actually) Power companies. Siemens is... well if you dunno, I can't help. Deutsche Bank same. Do you really think those have bilions to spent of wrong math? | 12:16 |
| SpeedEvil | A pipe would have a completely hopeless tether. | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/t of/d on/ | 12:17 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: E.ON is one of only 5 German (err European actually) Power companies. Siemens is... well if you dunno, I can't help. Deutsche Bank same. Do you really think those have bilions to spend on wrong math? | 12:17 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Subsidised panels are not fairly counted. | 12:17 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's probably government funding that makes math work out for them | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | what fsckng subsidized panels? | 12:17 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | be back later | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not talking about PV | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | A large slice of germanys solar output goes to subsidised german panels. | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | i'm going to MOT my car | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | i've spent 6h taking suspension apart and then putting it back together | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you checked the links to desertec? | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | so it would be nice if it passes | 12:19 |
| jacekowski | well financialy it may work out | 12:19 |
| jacekowski | as in they're not going to make loss on it | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - the thermal thing - no I diddn't. | 12:19 |
| jacekowski | but it's not going to replace conventional power stations | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, the prroblem is that germany has few deserts. | 12:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe it could fix that. | 12:20 |
| jacekowski | they plan to install it on sahara | 12:20 |
| jacekowski | and then transport electricity from there | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article7298116/Wie-Siemens-in-Spanien-den-Wuestenstrom-testet.html | 12:21 |
| jacekowski | transport 200GW over that distance | 12:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders why he's talking to dudes not interested in listening | 12:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: Siemens does exactly that | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | "MV DC | 12:22 |
| lolcat | DocScrutinizer: It is some foreign language | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2MV DC | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | or was it 400kV | 12:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this is a project way larger than e.g. the suez channel, or the assuan dam | 12:24 |
| kerio | or some minecraft things i've seen | 12:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Long distance power transmission is not technically challenging. | 12:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It's simply annoying engineering-wise. | 12:25 |
| SpeedEvil | And puts you in the position of either having to defend militarily the pipeline and collector, or rely on the good will of all future goverrnments along the pipeline and collector. | 12:26 |
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| kerio | that's the main reason the sensible solution to the world energetic problem - solar and geothermal power stations in the sahara, with hydrogen as a vector - will never be actually implemented :( | 12:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hydrogen is not a sensible vector if you just want to move energy from pointA-B | 12:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Wires are much cheaper | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's not hydrogen, but nevermind | 12:31 |
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| kerio | SpeedEvil: good point | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | WAY cheaper, and probably even less loss | 12:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | way more sturdy | 12:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec | 12:36 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: i think hydrogen is a pretty cool guy, eh is inefficient but doesn't afraid of pollution | 12:41 |
| * SpeedEvil hits kerio over the head with his anti-meme lolcat. | 12:42 | |
| kerio | can't has memes? :(/ | 12:43 |
| kerio | really though, hydrogen sucks but at least when you burn it it releases water and not stuff that kills you | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, we don't want to burn the energy we get from solar power plants in north africa | 12:44 |
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| kerio | solar and geothermal | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | geothermal is done locally | 12:44 |
| kerio | yeah but takes space | 12:45 |
| kerio | below the solar panels we'll have lots of space | 12:45 |
| kerio | as in, under ground | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole Rhine valley seems has good preconditions for geothermal | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh, geothermal takes space? | 12:45 |
| kerio | to make enough energy | 12:46 |
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| kerio | non-renewable energy sources make a shitton of energy :( | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | how's that? Do you plan to mine the geoheat in open mining? | 12:46 |
| kerio | hmm, "are"? | 12:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: digging under stuff is harder than digging under nothing | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | who's digging? | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | what for? | 12:47 |
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| woldrich | Hello there people. | 12:48 |
| woldrich | I'm wondering if it's possible to install a not-so-ancient Perl version without chroot yet? | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | drilling for geothermic power is like drilling for oil, just cleaner. For sure you don't dig and don't need large real estate | 12:48 |
| kerio | you need space underground because above you have solar panels everywhere | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: don't eat acid for breakfast! | 12:49 |
| kerio | orange juice is slightly acid, does that count? | 12:52 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:56 |
| Jaffa | jonwil: pong | 12:56 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: pong | 12:56 |
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| jonwil | Jaffa: any news on whats mentioned in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128#c8 | 12:57 |
| povbot | Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework | 12:57 |
| jonwil | ? | 12:57 |
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| jonwil | Or are the "powers that be" still trying to figure out what to do? | 12:58 |
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| pupnik_ | you are the power that be | 13:02 |
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| Jaffa | jonwil: I've chased once. I'll do so again next week. | 13:02 |
| jonwil | ok | 13:03 |
| jonwil | I suspect these things are going to take time whatever happens | 13:03 |
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| * Jaffa nods | 13:04 | |
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| jonwil | me, I am concerned that the Nokia people will simply say "these particular packages are dead, everyone should be hacking on ofono/conman/whatever" | 13:07 |
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| * RST38h yawns | 13:35 | |
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| RST38h | Time to reanimate this channel: looks like Harmattan will be marketed as "Maemo" after all. | 13:35 |
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| jonwil | Does any of this mean anything to me as a N900 owner? | 13:36 |
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| RST38h | No, you are ok, go back to sleep. | 13:37 |
| merlin1991 | RST38h: I'm sort of lost on the Harmattan / Meego / Maemo naming, what is what actually? | 13:37 |
| RST38h | Maemo = Nokia's own product,based on Debian for the base OS and gtk+ for UI | 13:38 |
| RST38h | Harmattan = last icarnation of Maemo, aka Maemo6, with the same Debian for the base OS and Qt for UI | 13:38 |
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| RST38h | Meego = the supposed "future" OS, developed in supposed "collaboration" with Intel, based on Fedora base OS and Qt UI | 13:39 |
| merlin1991 | thx :) | 13:39 |
| merlin1991 | is there a good place to find info about harmattan? | 13:39 |
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| RST38h | Notice that Harmattan and Meego share the supposedly same Qt UI | 13:39 |
| RST38h | merlin: Google? | 13:39 |
| merlin1991 | no google is the suck, with the bloody localized search optimisation I just get bs when googling for harmattan :D | 13:40 |
| RST38h | worksforme. | 13:40 |
| merlin1991 | I get lots of hits for the wind, and some french pages about whatever :D | 13:41 |
| JamesWS | Hello | 13:42 |
| RST38h | learn to use google properly then | 13:42 |
| merlin1991 | I just love answers like ^ | 13:43 |
| MohammadAG | Harmattan is a wind :P | 13:43 |
| MohammadAG | so is Fremantle | 13:43 |
| merlin1991 | but then again, you didn't link me to lmgtfy.com/ :D | 13:43 |
| MohammadAG | justfuckinggoogleit.com is better | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG | (real site btw) | 13:44 |
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| pupnik_ | "Something must be done! This is something, therefore it must be done." | 13:46 |
| alterego | google: nokia harmattan maybe? | 13:46 |
| * alterego finds the idea of keywords quite easy to comprehend, therefore it must be quite easy to comprehend .. | 13:47 | |
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| alterego | Yet, it is quite amazing how seemingly lazy some people are. otoh, I wouldn't mind teaching people how to perform decent search queries. | 13:48 |
| alterego | Like, how do I google for information on maemo/meego harmattan | 13:48 |
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| OkropNick | What application can I use on N900 to create desktop shortcuts to bash scripts? | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | queen beecon | 14:07 |
| OkropNick | thx | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/queen-beecon/ | 14:07 |
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| yacc | Any idea how to make the N900 believe the keyboard has been opened while it's closed? | 14:21 |
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| MohammadAG | depends which app you want to trick | 14:27 |
| MohammadAG | some apps listen to a gconf value | 14:27 |
| MohammadAG | /system/osso/af/slide-open | 14:28 |
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| OkropNick | SpeedEvil: what a powerful tool! thank you again :) | 14:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | OkropNick: It is awesome, thought he icons are rather odd. | 14:36 |
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| OkropNick | one more question. what is name of program which is displaying short messages on the top of screen in cases of: chargerv connected, charger disconnected, sms delivered and so on. I want use it for other purposes | 15:00 |
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| alterego | OkropNick: it's a Hildon Notification Banner | 15:11 |
| alterego | OkropNick: what language are you developing in? | 15:11 |
| OkropNick | alterego: thanks - I'm not gonna developing anything big, I'm just want to use it with queen beecon | 15:12 |
| alterego | Ah, erm. Probably best bet is to write a small python wrapper then | 15:12 |
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| kerio | yay python | 15:13 |
| villager | OkropNick: easiest is probably to use the osso module (python-osso if you use python) to show such a notification | 15:14 |
| OkropNick | villager: is easy way to display hildon banner using bash script? | 15:14 |
| villager | should be, but I don't see any shell script examples of the banner... only of the system note dialog, which is bigger and in the middle of the screen | 15:16 |
| alterego | That's why I'm saying you'll probabk | 15:17 |
| alterego | ly need to write a python command to do it that you can call from shell | 15:17 |
| villager | someone might be able to see what dbus commands libosso sends and convert it to shell commands | 15:19 |
| OkropNick | ok, i'm reading about it. I need to build small tool for display message and vibrate when power level will be - for example 10% | 15:19 |
| macmaN | morning allz | 15:19 |
| alterego | I'll write you a little app, ang on. | 15:19 |
| OkropNick | alterego: oo, thank you. I can put it to fcron | 15:20 |
| OkropNick | short message and one short vibration - thats all I need | 15:21 |
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| macmaN | would anyone have a tip on what's the optimal way to get n900 stock rootfs into a qemu host stage | 15:21 |
| villager | think I'll try to see what libosso does, out of curiosity | 15:21 |
| macmaN | i.e. is there an image that is used for that usually or do i need to manually copy / from device | 15:22 |
| jonwil | the Hildon Banner code is in libhildon, not libosso | 15:22 |
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| jonwil | oh wait its somewhere else | 15:23 |
| alterego | jonwil: it's in osso for python | 15:23 |
| jonwil | oh ok | 15:23 |
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| GuySoft | hi all, is there a way to list all the fonts i have available? i want to change the default font in opera | 15:24 |
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| alterego | OkropNick: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/m5infoprint.py | 15:26 |
| OkropNick | alterego: I've just found code for system notification: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:"NOTIFICATION" | 15:26 |
| OkropNick | alterego: thx, I'll check it | 15:26 |
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| alterego | Or that yeah :) | 15:27 |
| alterego | well, the syntax for my command is: ./m5infoprint.py "Whatever message you want" | 15:28 |
| OkropNick | here is many cool things: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control | 15:28 |
| alterego | Yeah, that's a good page. | 15:28 |
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| villager | jonwil: you can show the banner two ways: either with hildon, which makes the *app* own it... or with libosso, which makes some system process own it | 15:30 |
| jonwil | oh ok | 15:30 |
| villager | jonwil: personally I use the hildon way when I need control, and the osso way when my script will exit immediately and can't keep it open itself | 15:31 |
| jonwil | ok | 15:31 |
| villager | hmm, looks like libosso just sends the same freedesktop.org notifications that are on that phone control web page... | 15:31 |
| villager | OkropNick: so yeah, you can do it from a shell script: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_notification_.28orange_one_line_popup.29 | 15:32 |
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| villager | I guess it's only the second one there that's the big one, not the first one | 15:33 |
| OkropNick | villager: yes, I'll join it with one vibration and never forget about charging when N900 is in pocket | 15:33 |
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| macmaN | ok i guess not. but how come there is no distcc package for maemo | 15:35 |
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| macmaN | oh ok | 15:39 |
| macmaN | do you need distcc? i find it easier to mount the slow machine via nfs, chroot there and have the whole emerge process run on my quadcore which hardly ever runs out of memory. - i only work on x86, though, i don't know if this could possibly work with an arm target. | 15:40 |
| macmaN | this is pretty good thinking too | 15:40 |
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| villager | macmaN: most C/C++ developers do not compile on the n900, they cross compile on their regular pcs, no need for distcc for maemo | 15:41 |
| kerio | but distcc on a network of N900s is leet | 15:42 |
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| macmaN | villager: right but where do i get the correct libc setup | 15:42 |
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| macmaN | villager: my buildrig is gentoo and by default its crossdev thing installs all the latest libs, i dont think some sort of maemo-template exists | 15:43 |
| macmaN | althought that'd be really really nice | 15:44 |
| villager | macmaN: I use the scratchbox-based maemo sdk, but if you plan to develop with Qt I hear there are also some qt sdks that might be easier to use than scratchbox | 15:45 |
| villager | like MADDE or something | 15:46 |
| villager | qtcreator | 15:47 |
| alterego | Yeah, the Nokia Qt SDK is really good, though I use it with Scratchbox too. | 15:48 |
| alterego | Got it nicely integrated for on device or scratchbox deployment. | 15:48 |
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| villager | the good thing about the scratchbox thing is that it has kind of a n900 emulator so you can do quick tests of your app in it without downloading it to the phone all the time | 15:51 |
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| villager | not a great emulator, but at least something | 15:52 |
| alterego | Well, that's why the Nokia SDK with maemo deployment is good, ctrl+r and it copies and runs it on the device. | 15:54 |
| alterego | scratchbox is a little more combersome, but I have the same thing anyway, like ctrl+r runs my project in qt creater under scratchbox, when I've set the target to scratchbox | 15:55 |
| alterego | I usually use a mixture of both, I use scratchbox to create packages though. | 15:56 |
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| macmaN | hmmm, yes i should install the qt sdk on linux | 16:18 |
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| GuySoft | hi all, is it possible to change the default font in opera mobile? each time i change it in opera:config, it reverts back | 16:35 |
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| lcuk | lol DocScrutinizer, optifying /usr/share is a bit "tricky" | 16:48 |
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| macmaN | w00t, got qemu chroot working mounting n900:/ over nfs | 16:52 |
| macmaN | awesome | 16:53 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, booted happily now but did not end up saving as much rootfs space as I thought | 17:03 |
| * lcuk ponders trying /usr | 17:03 | |
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| jonwil | Someone should make a list of all the folders on the rootfs that actually NEED to be on the rootfs | 17:07 |
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| lcuk | jonwil, I will expect you to have the wiki report finished by 4pm | 17:09 |
| jonwil | :P | 17:09 |
| lcuk | jonwil, you like investigating things - have you booted MeeGo yet? | 17:09 |
| jonwil | nope | 17:10 |
| jonwil | Not interested in alternative OSs on my N900 | 17:10 |
| jonwil | only in making the one I do use better | 17:10 |
| jonwil | too late in the day for me to play with /usr stuff | 17:10 |
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| lcuk | jonwil, ok then well I found out MeeGo by default does something immensely faster than Maemo | 17:10 |
| macmaN | can anyone share a keyword about re-configuring /etc/resolv.conf when making usb network connection? | 17:11 |
| macmaN | i would like nameservers reordered when i connect with usb0 and then restored when i disconnect | 17:11 |
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| macmaN | i understand dnsmasq takes care of it at 127.0.0.1, so should i push something into dnsmasq configuration or directly into /etc/resolv.conf | 17:12 |
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| macmaN | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking only has info about manual editing, but there is some debian-way to do automated reconfiguration.. no? | 17:14 |
| lcuk | macmaN, I hear people talk about editing ifup ifdown configuration thingies to do odd things like this | 17:15 |
| macmaN | hmm, how is that strange, i am not sure i can make network dhcp available through usb and you might not always want to either | 17:17 |
| macmaN | but still access the internet | 17:17 |
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| macmaN | ok i should probably google this from the debian pov | 17:19 |
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| OkropNick | alterego: I wrote simple ash script to vibrate and display alert when energy level fall below given value. Do you want it? | 17:22 |
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| OkropNick | can be run by fcron for example | 17:23 |
| MohammadAG | energy level? | 17:23 |
| OkropNick | charge level | 17:23 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't bme do that? except the vibration bit | 17:23 |
| OkropNick | It uses bme, I'll show you, w8 | 17:23 |
| OkropNick | http://pastebin.com/bUZvfUgy | 17:25 |
| OkropNick | It's very simple but I was missing that feature | 17:26 |
| SpeedEvil | BME does that | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | It goes beep, displays battery low, and then later, double beeps | 17:27 |
| OkropNick | but it's too quiet. I can't hear it when I have headphones or when phone is in pocket | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | hal-device bme | grep percentage | awk '{print $3}' | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | I kinda hate regexes :P | 17:29 |
| OkropNick | :) | 17:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | useless use of grep | 17:31 |
| SpeedEvil | awk '/percentage/{print $3}' | 17:31 |
| OkropNick | thx | 17:31 |
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| MohammadAG | kinda dead in here today | 17:45 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, same everywhere | 17:47 |
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| alterego | lcuk: another thing that annoys me, wonky photos :P | 17:49 |
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| lcuk | alterego, haha | 17:49 |
| lcuk | in which thing alterego ? | 17:50 |
| lcuk | (note which chan you are on) | 17:50 |
| alterego | the nokia tablet mockup | 17:50 |
| alterego | Yeah, I nkow :P | 17:50 |
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| alterego | http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/03/conceptual-meego-tablet-ui-pictures/ | 17:50 |
| alterego | I felt sorry for MohammadAG :P | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 17:51 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, you know I could just tap #meego on the chanlist :P | 17:51 |
| alterego | Yeah well | 17:54 |
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| ZogG | <MohammadAG> kinda dead in here today |it's just i was asleep | 17:57 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, 2 things | 17:58 |
| ZogG | 1) when you go to Jordan you ping me first i liked the laptop price | 17:58 |
| ZogG | 2) what keyboard do you use | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | My laptop's keyboard xD | 17:59 |
| ZogG | you don't have desktop? | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | I do, but I don't use it, at all | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | Logitech, some old model that's probably extinct now | 18:00 |
| ZogG | i want something like mac's | 18:00 |
| ZogG | http://www.ret.ru/images/m51393/743027.jpg | 18:00 |
| ZogG | like this for example | 18:00 |
| ZogG | but we don't have | 18:01 |
| alterego | lcuk: weird, whilst working on my UX ideas, I sketched something that looks a lot like handset ... | 18:01 |
| MohammadAG | sketch iOS!!1eleven1 | 18:01 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, get a mac keyboard? | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | I think they work on PCs | 18:02 |
| ZogG | it is white | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | racist! | 18:03 |
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| MohammadAG | :P | 18:03 |
| ZogG | and it's too expensive, i mean it's not that i don't have that money, but they want too much only cause it's apple and i don't want to feed jobs =) | 18:03 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, oh i am racist =) | 18:03 |
| lcuk | I once got a mac keyboard, but between the hamburger button and fries dispenser it was a bit useless | 18:04 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, ZogG :( | 18:04 |
| alterego | Hahah | 18:04 |
| ZogG | lcuk say wut? | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/foldable-and-undestructable-usb-flexible-keyboard-109-key-13684 | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, what? I'm racist towards muslims | 18:05 |
| OkropNick | Hmm, it is very strange. When I run this script http://pastebin.com/Em7sWnKK from terminal, it displays text and vibrating, but when I run this script from fcron there is only vibration, no message. | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 18:05 |
| macmaN | SpeedEvil: ive been thinking about those kinds of solutions to carry for tableting | 18:06 |
| macmaN | if i only had a maemo/meego tablet :/ | 18:06 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil lol | 18:06 |
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| macmaN | i wonder how small that folds to | 18:06 |
| macmaN | and is it usable enough for coding | 18:07 |
| macmaN | on the run | 18:07 |
| lcuk | macmaN, perhaps not on the run | 18:07 |
| ZogG | macmaN, you can use http://www.indiana.edu/~libpres/manual/materials/matimages/notebook.jpg this for coding | 18:07 |
| lcuk | 100 metre dash + SMS | 18:07 |
| lcuk | ai32ursdnhvks5 289rsfer2iridsjv98d\ s uew 8sud98fshj45jr98sfs9t45 jo4wr w8tr9432tr | 18:07 |
| ZogG | lcuk, why not, there is nike coding shoes =) | 18:08 |
| ZogG | lcuk, is a bot ^ | 18:08 |
| lcuk | ZogG, I use something similar for coding :) | 18:08 |
| ZogG | lcuk, i used to code with steps shoes | 18:08 |
| ZogG | when you dance in Morse's code | 18:09 |
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| * lcuk has a mac mini keyboard | 18:10 | |
| lcuk | ZogG: http://liqbase.net/liq.n810.laptopmode.20080305.S6002381.JPG | 18:10 |
| ZogG | lcuk i want one for desktop and not maemo | 18:12 |
| ZogG | why woud i need one for maemo? | 18:12 |
| ZogG | is n900 or n8*0 keyboard more comfy? | 18:13 |
| lcuk | ZogG, for coding, 810 and 900 keyboards are good for poking | 18:13 |
| lcuk | but tough to get required characters for efficient coding | 18:13 |
| ZogG | lcuk, you built nice mac pro there =) | 18:13 |
| lcuk | tab and | mostly (I know you can configure them) | 18:13 |
| ZogG | lcuk i have | on n900 =) | 18:13 |
| ZogG | and tab | 18:14 |
| lcuk | I have that too, look .|.. | 18:14 |
| ZogG | there is script in extras | 18:14 |
| lcuk | as stated, they can be configured | 18:14 |
| ZogG | n900 is awesome | 18:14 |
| ZogG | all the droid and iphones are just for games | 18:15 |
| ZogG | n900 is real business here | 18:15 |
| * lcuk nods | 18:15 | |
| * ZogG xmms2> Peter Gabriel - My Body Is A Cage ["Scratch My Back" 2010] | 18:15 | |
| lcuk | what is the most fully loaded n900 around? | 18:15 |
| ZogG | nice song from last house =) | 18:15 |
| lcuk | who has pushed it to uber limits with most OSes and stuff? | 18:15 |
| ZogG | lcuk, MohammadAG ? | 18:15 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG is tame :P | 18:16 |
| ZogG | i think he tried ubuntu or fedora =) | 18:16 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, did you? | 18:16 |
| ZogG | <lcuk> MohammadAG is lame :P | 18:16 |
| ZogG | lol | 18:16 |
| lcuk | ZogG, we were doing ubuntu on n810 and stuff | 18:16 |
| ZogG | oh and there was someone porting gentoo to n810 =) | 18:16 |
| ZogG | http://nosocomia.com:8099/n810-gentoo/ | 18:17 |
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| lcuk | ZogG, yeah | 18:18 |
| macmaN | ZogG: https://github.com/slonopotamus/ | 18:18 |
| macmaN | i just got n800 booting gentoo | 18:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Congrats. | 18:18 |
| ZogG | macmaN just right now/ | 18:18 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil, aren't you happy for them? | 18:18 |
| macmaN | with xorg-server-1.9.4, wireless and all | 18:18 |
| macmaN | well no, a day or so ago | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, I had 6 OSs on the N900 | 18:19 |
| ZogG | macmaN, how does it work? | 18:19 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, :D | 18:19 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, wich ones? | 18:19 |
| * lcuk retracts his previous comment | 18:19 | |
| macmaN | lcuk: im installing gentoo prefix on n900 right now | 18:19 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG is awesome :P | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | now I only have Maemo and MeeGo | 18:20 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, how can we benchmark properly between them | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | move Maemo to the eMMC I guess | 18:21 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, meego is on sd? | 18:21 |
| lcuk | since yesterday I noticed that by default MeeGo appears to have better configurations for compiling stuff within | 18:21 |
| ZogG | i want to get there too | 18:21 |
| macmaN | ZogG: very nicely! i will be figuring out next what kind of UI i will put on it, it needs some thought considering theres no keyboard and most of the software out there isnt for tablets | 18:21 |
| ZogG | for now nit and maemo | 18:21 |
| MohammadAG | no, internal eMMC | 18:21 |
| macmaN | actually i think there might be room now for a tablet-desktop-environment for linux | 18:21 |
| MohammadAG | uSD sucks | 18:21 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, do not want to format emmc and split it =( | 18:22 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, it doesn't suck so much. but to use eMMC requires planning and lots of mucking around resizing partitions - most important is user data on there | 18:22 |
| ZogG | is meego already usable? | 18:23 |
| ZogG | as lcuk never answer me on twitter =) | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, use gparted | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | just resize it, no need to format | 18:24 |
| ZogG | meh | 18:24 |
| ZogG | i did it on laptop | 18:24 |
| ZogG | took ages | 18:24 |
| ZogG | also hinking to get to ext2 on emmc | 18:25 |
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| pupnik | mammas don't let your babies grow up | 18:27 |
| lcuk | ZogG, where, what, when? | 18:27 |
| GermanME | to be cowboys | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, not that much of a risk tbh | 18:27 |
| lcuk | ahh ZogG | 18:27 |
| lcuk | well you knwo the DeveloperEdition is in progress, track it to see http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition | 18:28 |
| * alterego ponders how cool it'd be if all handset UXs were written in QML .. | 18:28 | |
| lcuk | alterego, well since the powersaving is not yet inplace, it wouldn't be that cool | 18:29 |
| ZogG | ruskie, hey byddu | 18:29 |
| MohammadAG | as much as I like QML, I'd hate the fact that my UI is interpretted :P | 18:29 |
| MohammadAG | drop the second t | 18:29 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: it's not really interpreted .. | 18:30 |
| * lcuk puts hand up | 18:30 | |
| alterego | Well, the javascript is, but the Qml is used to build a scene graph | 18:30 |
| lcuk | alterego, where is the QML compiler? | 18:30 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, how is yopur mediaplayer? | 18:31 |
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| MohammadAG | very usable as a music replacement | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | music-only replacement mediaplayer | 18:33 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, do you know of a gstreamer based widget for Qt? | 18:35 |
| alterego | QMediaPlayer? | 18:35 |
| alterego | Or whatever it's called, whatever is in QtMultimedia | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | meh, don't want to use QtMultimedia | 18:36 |
| alterego | Yes, stick to mafw compliance :P | 18:37 |
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| MohammadAG | mafw rocks :P | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | actually, yeah, mafw's good, Nokia's implementation sucks | 18:39 |
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| pupnik | http://thethoughtexperiment.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/happyfreaksviaiwanabeyourdog.jpg R. Crumb - janis joplin | 18:48 |
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| macmaN | sigh | 18:49 |
| macmaN | managed to get my n900 into a reboot loop | 18:50 |
| macmaN | damn | 18:50 |
| MohammadAG | reason? | 18:51 |
| macmaN | i wonder how | 18:51 |
| macmaN | no idea | 18:51 |
| macmaN | the only suspicious thing i did was letting emerge update ld.so.cache | 18:51 |
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| macmaN | is there some way to monitor the boot process | 18:52 |
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| macmaN | hmmm | 18:54 |
| macmaN | actually i did use qcpufreq to put max at 900mhz | 18:54 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG, you mean no video and radio support for now | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | radio is supported, sort of | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | but yeah, for now, I'm the only one working on this :( | 18:57 |
| ZogG | =( | 18:58 |
| ZogG | i don't think it's for now =( | 18:58 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, how would you handle video btw? | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | why? | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | mafw | 18:58 |
| ZogG | mplayer is nice =) | 18:59 |
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| MohammadAG | screw it, needs a fast CPU | 18:59 |
| MohammadAG | and I'm replacing the stock player, not changing the whole underlying stack | 18:59 |
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| MohammadAG | most stuff is easy to implement, but idk how to do the gstreamer widget | 19:00 |
| ZogG | what do you mean. the one for displaying video? | 19:01 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 19:01 |
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| MohammadAG | think I should get genres view working next | 19:01 |
| MohammadAG | then playlist view | 19:01 |
| MohammadAG | then music only replacement is done | 19:02 |
| MohammadAG | internet radio should also be easy | 19:02 |
| * RST38h moos, greets Mohammad | 19:02 | |
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| pupnik | moo | 19:04 |
| RST38h | hey pupnik | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | moo RST38h :D | 19:04 |
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| pupnik | n900 is bestest thing ever | 19:04 |
| haj | but it could be better.. ;) | 19:04 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1873113/how-to-implement-a-video-widget-in-qt-that-builds-upon-gstreamer | 19:04 |
| RST38h | are you really including all the humand methods of getting satisfaction into the comparison? | 19:05 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, as well this can be releated and it's releated to n800 http://www.qtforum.org/article/26990/how-to-show-gstreamer-video-inside-qt-widget.html | 19:05 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG, I guess I'll need to read about gstreamer too | 19:10 |
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| pupnik | haj: what two things would you change | 19:16 |
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| MohammadAG | http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/18/internet-explorer-versions-1-through-9-compared-signs-of-progre/ epic title | 19:22 |
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| macmaN | hrm somehow getting access to rootfs in this flash mode would be very nice | 19:23 |
| macmaN | i wonder if i should just re-flash the kernel to start | 19:24 |
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| Macer | wtf | 19:44 |
| Macer | i swappped to wifi and lost my tmob cell connection | 19:44 |
| Macer | is there something i can do to reset the modem without a power cycle? | 19:44 |
| pupnik | swapped to wifi? | 19:45 |
| Macer | yes | 19:45 |
| Macer | i manually connected to my wifi when i got home | 19:45 |
| Macer | but i have been running into this problem all on its own | 19:46 |
| Macer | where i lose the tmob connection | 19:46 |
| ruskie | the 3g data connection? | 19:46 |
| Macer | and have to power cycle to get it back | 19:46 |
| Macer | both | 19:46 |
| Macer | the data and cell connection | 19:46 |
| ruskie | hmm | 19:46 |
| ruskie | data lossing should be normal... but losing the cell connection... | 19:47 |
| Macer | yeah. it just seems to die on me | 19:47 |
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| Macer | is there some way to re-run the modem startup? | 19:47 |
| Macer | in order to get it to reset itself without powering off? | 19:47 |
| ruskie | no clue | 19:48 |
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| Macer | heh | 19:48 |
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| macmaN | hrm, so how long is the knightrider show supposed to go on after flash | 19:49 |
| ruskie | after flash? | 19:49 |
| Macer | and now... tmobile isnt listed in my internet connection list | 19:49 |
| Macer | ugh | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | macmaN: serveral mins | 19:49 |
| Macer | i think it is time to dump the n900 :) | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | macmaN: takes ages for first boot | 19:49 |
| Macer | i should get a g2 or something | 19:49 |
| macmaN | ahh indeed | 19:49 |
| macmaN | ok now pin code entry | 19:50 |
| Macer | i wish there was an android rom with a gnu environment | 19:50 |
| Macer | that would make android perfect | 19:50 |
| macmaN | Macer: exactly | 19:51 |
| macmaN | Macer: can i haz just the hardware please pretty much | 19:52 |
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| macmaN | sigh, back to installing cssu n friends :/ | 19:52 |
| macmaN | i really wonder how i messed it up | 19:57 |
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| * RST38h hates .MKV | 20:01 | |
| * ruskie loves .MKV | 20:01 | |
| * macmaN loves .MKV | 20:01 | |
| derf | RST38h: It could be worse. | 20:02 |
| * SpeedEvil hates the new BBC files from get_iplayer that don't play on the n900 | 20:02 | |
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| RST38h | derf: Yes. It could be motion JPEG. | 20:02 |
| derf | Or .rm! | 20:02 |
| RST38h | Or the freaking .FLV | 20:02 |
| ruskie | or .wmv | 20:02 |
| RST38h | Actually, there is an option of .rm | 20:02 |
| SpeedEvil | mbmp | 20:02 |
| derf | .wmv isn't _that_ terrible, as a container format. | 20:03 |
| ruskie | and what exactly is wrong with .mkv? | 20:03 |
| RST38h | ruskie: not supported on N900, very badly supported on Windows, makes players crash, subtitles get desynced or lost | 20:04 |
| ruskie | mplayer works fine... | 20:04 |
| ruskie | as for the rest... haven't used windows for anything other than minor work related things in last 5 years... haven't had any crashes... and the only times I got desyncs was due to crappy encoding | 20:05 |
| derf | It has similar problems to Ogg... it tries to be good enough for enough different use cases that implementing it is fairly complex, and thus often wrong. | 20:05 |
| RST38h | Oh, btw, I hate Ogg too | 20:06 |
| RST38h | Same issues. | 20:06 |
| derf | Yes, I think that was my point. | 20:06 |
| SpeedEvil | nanny ogg? | 20:06 |
| derf | Of course, the alternative is to be bad at everything. | 20:07 |
| derf | So it's not like you can win. | 20:07 |
| RST38h | irssi syndrome, too eleet to be usable :) | 20:07 |
| korhojoa | irssi syndrome? | 20:07 |
| macmaN | with a *bunch* of /scripts, irssi is quite all right aside from vertsplit windows | 20:07 |
| korhojoa | i don't see how uh. unusable? | 20:08 |
| korhojoa | i don't really use any other client | 20:08 |
| ruskie | I guess it depends on the people actually using it... | 20:08 |
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| derf | RST38h has just never spent serious time with BitchX. | 20:08 |
| derf | Or ircII. | 20:08 |
| ruskie | or maybe he prefers the simplicity of those clients | 20:08 |
| derf | I know I enjoyed the simplicity of dumping the traffic from all my channels into one window. | 20:09 |
| ruskie | I'll pick whatever works best for me... and so far mkv, irssi and other things haven't caused any probs | 20:09 |
| korhojoa | i don't need vertical tabs of channels, 1337-scripts for VIP ACCESS or mouse access. i like my always-accessible client. | 20:10 |
| ruskie | hell avi, wmv and mp4 caused me more headaches | 20:10 |
| korhojoa | <3 mp4. you fickle bitch | 20:10 |
| korhojoa | open one file, plays fine with all players. open another file, only plays on ps3 and n900 ?! | 20:10 |
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| macmaN | what format are the spelling dictionaries in on the n900 | 20:21 |
| macmaN | how do you add those | 20:21 |
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| macmaN | ok something called ezitext it seems | 20:31 |
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| macmaN | which prompts another question, anyone come up with a list to clean up all the useless language support packages | 20:32 |
| ruskie | eZiText | 20:32 |
| ruskie | macmaN, well the prob is if you remove them they tend to pull out quite a few required system packages as well | 20:32 |
| ruskie | eZiText being something propriteray used in quite a few systems that I can recall | 20:34 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder how I could check if a keypress is a letter and not otherwise... | 20:36 |
| macmaN | the language files have been set as some sort of hard dependencies...? damn thats gayness | 20:37 |
| ruskie | macmaN, everything for the basesystem is a harddependency :( | 20:38 |
| ruskie | and quite a few system packages also harddepend on those | 20:38 |
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| macmaN | ok thanks to this reflash, im getting a nice apt-get remove command together to clean out useless apps | 20:39 |
| ruskie | I have a removelist on my User:Ruskie wiki.maemo page | 20:39 |
| ruskie | might want to look at that | 20:39 |
| macmaN | osso-rss-feed-reader and so forth | 20:39 |
| macmaN | oh thanks | 20:39 |
| ruskie | feel free to append things | 20:39 |
| ruskie | note any removing will generally remove the fremantle metapackage as well | 20:39 |
| macmaN | ahh you repartitioned emmc? | 20:40 |
| macmaN | i was thinking about that | 20:40 |
| ruskie | yeah | 20:40 |
| ruskie | I did a lot of stuff | 20:40 |
| macmaN | 32g for FAT is such a waste | 20:40 |
| RST38h | Oh yeah: http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/19/red-bull-augmented-racing-game-lets-you-build-tracks-with-red-bu/ | 20:40 |
| ruskie | but sadly I had to make adjustments | 20:40 |
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| ruskie | due to the overall borkedness of the setup... | 20:40 |
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| RST38h | derf: I am using ircii for 10+ years now | 20:41 |
| RST38h | derf: It is ok. Irssi and BitchX I just cannot stand, they both feel like those ancient eleet hacker BBSes to me | 20:41 |
| ruskie | to each their own ;) | 20:42 |
| RST38h | rainbowy, crufty, egomaniac shit | 20:42 |
| ruskie | lol | 20:42 |
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| dm8tbr | RST38h: admit it you were just 'too lame to read bitchx.doc'! SCNR | 20:47 |
| ruskie | hehe | 20:47 |
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| RST38h | dm8: no, I was just too busy scratching my eyes out, after I looked at BitchX opening "screen" | 20:47 |
| macmaN | what the heck is skyhost | 20:47 |
| RST38h | skype p2p agent | 20:48 |
| macmaN | okay | 20:48 |
| ZogG | ruskie, hey | 20:48 |
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| dm8tbr | RST38h: yes, bx is umm too much, with irssi I'm happy. but everybody is free to have their favourite, beauty of IRC | 20:52 |
| RST38h | thank you | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I went from bitchX to pidgin, till I found something better. | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Turns out pidgin hasn't irritated me enought o bother finding something better. | 20:54 |
| pupnik | heh | 20:55 |
| pupnik | irssi! | 20:55 |
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| haj | pupnik: more RAM... Thats my only complaint... perhaps dualcore cpu, but i guess that the problems i have with maxed out cpu is due to the software being originally written to suit PC processors, and then ported to the N900.. | 21:04 |
| pupnik | hehe yep | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd like 512M of RAM | 21:05 |
| haj | pupnik: gPodder for instance.. I can't really complain it eats away on the resources if I download podcasts with 3mb/sec.. ;) | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Dual-core would be nice. | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - SMP dualcore | 21:05 |
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| yacc | When we are at it, a Nvidia Tegra based N9x0 with 4-5" display and at least 512MB RAM would be cool. | 21:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. | 21:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | The form factor is pretty ideal for most of my use-cases. | 21:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | Would I like it to fill more of the bezel - yes. | 21:10 |
| macmaN | wtf is up with Nokia-N900:~# apt-cache rdepends libmodest-dbus-client | 21:10 |
| macmaN | whole system depends on it.. | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I was able to - PR1.1? - remove modest | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get remove modest | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | with no issue | 21:11 |
| macmaN | yeah i used modest* | 21:12 |
| macmaN | just wondering about the libs | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | And it worked? | 21:12 |
| macmaN | wackness | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Removing, I mean | 21:12 |
| macmaN | no, i stopped it, the rdepends list is huge | 21:12 |
| macmaN | it wants to kill almost everything | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 21:13 |
| macmaN | because of that stupid modest library | 21:13 |
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| pupnik | interesting macmaN - never used rdepends before | 21:19 |
| Arkenoi | BitchX is crap, and Panasync is moron. | 21:20 |
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| macmaN | what do the rc marked packages mean | 21:25 |
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| alterego | macmaN: release candidate is usually what rc means in software | 21:33 |
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| Venemo | good afternoon | 21:37 |
| ZogG | hey and bye | 21:37 |
| ZogG | going to sleep | 21:38 |
| eusou444 | ok | 21:38 |
| eusou444 | bye | 21:38 |
| Venemo | hey ZogG :) | 21:38 |
| Venemo | bye | 21:38 |
| eusou444 | welcome venemo | 21:38 |
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| pupnik | US Federal Government attacks Libya ... http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ | 21:56 |
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| ZogG | Venemo, did you figured out with music files? | 22:01 |
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| Venemo | ZogG, totally removing the tags, readding them, and then 'touch *' in the directory and reindexing in Banshee did it :) | 22:01 |
| ZogG | hmm | 22:02 |
| ZogG | that's wierd | 22:02 |
| ZogG | banshee sucks than =) | 22:02 |
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| Venemo | nope | 22:02 |
| ZogG | yes it does =) | 22:02 |
| ZogG | xmss2 ftw | 22:02 |
| Venemo | it's actually smart. only re-indexes files that have their modification date set newer than before | 22:02 |
| Venemo | actually EasyTag sux for not setting the file modified date | 22:02 |
| Venemo | maybe there's a setting for it, but I didn't find it | 22:03 |
| OkropNick | does anyone know how to run fcron jobs as 'user', not as 'fcron' ? | 22:03 |
| ZogG | don't banshee has re-index option? | 22:03 |
| ZogG | OkropNick maybe threr is as well group fcron | 22:03 |
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| Venemo | ZogG, it remembers the modification dates, and only reindexes the ones with newer dates to speed up the process. | 22:04 |
| ZogG | Venemo lol=) just found it | 22:05 |
| ZogG | it took 2 seconds =) | 22:05 |
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| Venemo | ZogG, really? | 22:06 |
| ZogG | easytag -> settings-> preference -> file settings | 22:06 |
| Venemo | eeh. | 22:06 |
| ZogG | get rid of "preverse file date modification" | 22:06 |
| Venemo | ZogG, you're a mastermind | 22:06 |
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| ZogG | Venemo, meh =) i'm joking man, don't get pissed =( | 22:07 |
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| ZogG | you know i'm stupid =) | 22:07 |
| Venemo | ZogG, no you are NOT stupid at all | 22:07 |
| ZogG | everyone does, as i don't keep it as secret | 22:07 |
| ZogG | Venemo, i like being realistic =) | 22:07 |
| Venemo | ZogG, realistically, you're a clever person. believe me. | 22:08 |
| ZogG | the man who isn't a pessimist is a damned fool. | 22:09 |
| ZogG | - Mark Twain | 22:09 |
| Venemo | not true | 22:09 |
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| ZogG | Venemo, man you can't argue with Twain | 22:10 |
| Venemo | hehe | 22:11 |
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| ZogG | i can't find quote | 22:12 |
| lcuk | ZogG, he can, but I doubt he will get a reply. | 22:12 |
| ZogG | he was saying something like "pessimism is made up by people who is afraid of reality" | 22:12 |
| ZogG | lcuk, very grown up of you =P | 22:13 |
| ZogG | anyway night folks | 22:13 |
| Venemo | night ZogG | 22:14 |
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| ZogG | wait before i go | 22:16 |
| ZogG | what is the name of multitouch resist screen/ | 22:16 |
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| jacktheripper | did anybody have any luck running jackd on N900 ? I'm getting this http://pastebin.com/FN1ZQJf3 and nothing changes when I add the file | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: stantum? | 22:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: please check http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=968973&postcount=173 (missing modules in PK) and do *something* about it - e.g. kick PK maintainer's idiotic ass | 22:58 |
| MohammadAG | but.. but... I don't live in Germany | 22:58 |
| MohammadAG | I never knew kernel-power lacked those modules... | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | we *need* a sane way to *install* additional kernel modules, via some pkg or whatever | 23:04 |
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| MohammadAG | the debian way is dkms | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | we lack gcc to use that | 23:05 |
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| Macer | anybody see an inspirion duo thing? | 23:09 |
| Macer | that turns into a tablet? | 23:09 |
| Macer | i was wondering how it was | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: yes | 23:09 |
| Macer | any good? | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: not personally | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: Send me one, and I'll review it. | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 23:09 |
| Macer | hah | 23:09 |
| Macer | i was thyinking of getting one but it runs win7 | 23:09 |
| Macer | it is an n550 dual core 1.5ghz atom tho | 23:10 |
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| Macer | it is overpriced | 23:12 |
| Macer | and runs win7 so meh | 23:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I'd think two basic things: 1) most kernel modules can live in /opt aka eMMC, as not needed for boot. 2) if those are taking too much space, and you want to get rid of some - - so what, just do it. shouldn't be hard to rm some .ko, then run debmod -a or somesuch | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | to be more specific: if we can't have installable modules, then install 'all' modules and give user an option to get rid of useless cruft | 23:16 |
| MohammadAG | or package modules in extra packages | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | "ewww, PK pkg DL is 14MB" - so WAHT? | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | kernel-power-cdrom-modules | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | with the proper rdepends I don't see the problem either | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | why has nobody done that yet? (except maybe fcam) | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | fcam's implementation is stupid | 23:19 |
| MohammadAG | it just tries to load all modules | 23:19 |
| MohammadAG | stock ones will fail on kernel-power, kernel-power ones will fail on stock | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | we don't support stock, so nevermind | 23:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: could you help with this? some users of h-e-n got really desperate | 23:20 |
| MohammadAG | sure, one question though | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | where the f is titan | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | you showed them playing drHouse from DVD, and they don't get their drive mounted | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | NFC, send him here to receive his spanking, if ever you meet him | 23:22 |
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| Macer | hm | 23:25 |
| Macer | dell netbooks suck | 23:25 |
| Macer | they use old single core atoms | 23:25 |
| FauxFaux | s/old single-core// | 23:31 |
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| nox- | heh yeah su2300 > atom | 23:32 |
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| FauxFaux | s/su2300/an abacus/ | 23:35 |
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| pupnik | i like the thinkpad x series | 23:35 |
| pupnik | i can watch videos on mine and the cpu fan doesn't even turn on | 23:36 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I was using our kernel :) | 23:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: thought as much. Were the DVD/sr modules config'd by Paul, or did you do that? | 23:38 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I did | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I consider it necessary to host a h-e-n support pkg for PK | 23:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I don't care if that contains additional modules only, or a complete identical kernel *plus* additional modules. I'm also indifferent to whether we offer this via garage or in repo, and when repo, in which one | 23:43 |
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| Macer | wow | 23:45 |
| Macer | i dont even want this netbook | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | or we finally sanitize the fscking PK situation | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | sanitize means, get the thing into a shape where usual kernel devels can work on it. I.E. support git | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | then have a few maintainers so we're not shouting "WTF is titan??!!?!?!!!" | 23:47 |
| pupnik | lol | 23:47 |
| pupnik | no idea what you're on about DocScrutinizer | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | then stfu | 23:47 |
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| Macer | haha | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | the ones concerned will know what I mean | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I don't want to see powerkernel get abandoned and orphaned eventually, inkluding h-e-n | 23:49 |
| * lcuk will remember that next time the channel turns into French or Spanish or German or some other language | 23:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ??? | 23:50 |
| lcuk | "<DocScrutinizer> the ones concerned will know what I mean" | 23:50 |
| * lcuk was joking on that | 23:50 | |
| lcuk | people in other languages will know too | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry, this was a comment about somebody claiming he doesn't know about the problems of powerkernel maintenance | 23:51 |
| lcuk | *custom kernel maint is a problem | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I gather he's not the typical candidate to take concern about maintaining PK | 23:52 |
| Macer | are there no 64bit atoms? | 23:53 |
| Macer | :) | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | I have two | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | Atom330 and N510 | 23:53 |
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| FireFly | hmm | 23:56 |
| FireFly | is it possible to change the sound volume on the N900 from terminal? | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd like to invite interested individuals to ##mhd, to join in to a h-e-n centric discussion how to get a sane PK-alike thing that has proper maintenance | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: javispedro: Jaffa: donno who else ^^^ | 23:57 |
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